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Working cow podcast,

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episode 374.

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This episode is brought to you by,

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understanding ag,

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Welcome to the podcast that gives producers a

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platform to discuss and share paradigm challenging practices.

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Practices that have increased the effectiveness of their

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operation and the joy that their families have

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received from this lifestyle.

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Howdy everybody It's Clay Con host of the

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Working cow podcast

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recorded exclusively in the understanding ag studios,

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and this episode is brought to you by,

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understanding ag,

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We've been fortunate does feature some of the

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world's leading

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regenerative egg and adaptive grazing experts on our

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show.

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And many of those experts are farmer, Rancher

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instructors from the nonprofit soil Health academy.

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This year, you'll have several opportunities to experience

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on farm schools and workshops.

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Whether you're interested in learning more about diversifying

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corn and bean rotations to increase profitability,

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merging multiple species and marketing,

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grazing on the high plains in in northern

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environments.

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Regenerative farming and ranch or enhancing profits and

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production in your beef or dairy operation, the

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soil health academy has a school,

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For you.

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is in yourself, so visit soil health academy

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dot org to learn more and register.

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Financial assistance scholarships are available. Very excited to

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be joined today by Luke Jones and Brian

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Do, both part of the understanding Ag team,

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and we're gonna talk them today

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about cover crops. We're gonna talk all things

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cover crop?

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What's the goal of a cover crop? What

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are we trying to do on the landscape

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with a cover crop?

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What are we... What are some keys to

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success ways to set yourself up for success

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and ways to think about the different...

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Species mixes that we're using in cover crops,

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and then we're also...

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This is the Working Cows podcast. Right? We're

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gonna talk about livestock integration in in into

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cover cops as well towards the end. So

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really excited to welcome Brian back and and

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Luke for the first time. So, Brian, Luke,

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Thanks for joining me today on the Working

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cow podcast.

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You good to be here play. Yeah Thanks

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for having us.

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Yeah.

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Excited to have a conversation about c cover

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crops,

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fresh off of a soil Health Academy myself,

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Luke, you're in Indiana getting ready to teach

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1 there.

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And, you know, what kinda of clicked for

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me things that I got to hear with

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my own ears, see with my own eyes.

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Is that when we when we start to

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institute these cover crops

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that really what we're trying to do is

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speed up biological

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time.

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Is that...

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Am I remembering that right? Is that 1

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of the ways that you guys that understanding

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Ag talk about it? And and what do

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you mean by that? Yeah. Cover crops definitely

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are an integral part and moving the whole

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soil health system,

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ecosystem processes are regenerating our soils. Cover crops

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are... A necessity. They're not the only tool

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that we'd look at, but they're definitely in

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necessity.

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You know, they've been talked about for for

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decades now. You know, it's nothing new. But

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I think now that we're starting to get

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an understanding of what these cover crops actually

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bring to the table, you know, back when

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I first started understanding and cover crops, it

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was

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a lot of mono crops whether it's till

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radish or just aisle things like that are

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just or or leftover wheat,

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but I think we've come so much

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further from that and no understanding that the

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diversity? And why was it the diversity with

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Silk key is,

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it stimulates the biology, biology in a way

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that, you know, each of these different

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species, compounds or releasing different exit that are

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stimulated into biology.

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And if we understand that the system that

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we are working with is biologically driven

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than what better way to stimulate the priming

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through diverse cover crops. And getting them established

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in the system any way that we can

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to capture that,

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all important for ecosystem processes processes of of

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the energy cycle. Right? I... 1 of my

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favorite things that I... That I talk about

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and that excites me about this whole j

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back movement and building soil health is.

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Anytime, you wake up in the morning, you've

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got a great day to to make things

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happen. No matter what the system is. Get

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a living plan out there, capture that solar

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energy cycle. And let the whole chain of

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events happen from there.

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You know, we are the biggest

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inhibitor of life on the operation ourselves and

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our management decisions. So

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I encourage it. Way that I can get

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something out there growing. I don't look at

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anything as a weed anymore, if even if

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it's an escape or something,

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it's there for a reason. It has a

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habitable environment it grows. So

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a cover crop could be a 4 barrel

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a weed as some my call for me

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too. But it's there. It's got competition with

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with some other cover crops but

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getting those cover crops established, to stimulate the

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biology, feed that, feed their diet if you

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will. Is the... The the initial first step

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for us to take forward? No. And I

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guess, when I

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I get... We're 1 of those kind of

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ways that we wanna frame that

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conversation too is picking the place to do

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a cover crop, and I don't never is

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a very strong word.

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When when my my wife and I were

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getting ready to get married. We had some

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people that were investing in our marriage even

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before we were married and and 1 of

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things that they said is when you're fighting,

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you shouldn't use words like always in never.

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So never is a strong word. But I

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would say that we could probably say, we

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should never

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cover crop a,

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perennial

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poly culture that's already existing. Like, we shouldn't

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take go plow up grass,

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perennial and put in cover crops there. Right?

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We should, maybe

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use other management tools to try and make

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them more diverse, but probably not, you know,

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burn them down and and put a cover

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crop in there. Would you guys agree with

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that?

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Yeah. I agree. I'll start to I'll let

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Brian Chime. Yeah. It's kind of the, you

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know, the actual reverse thinking here on that.

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If you wanna try to establish perennial we

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would recommend... From a row crop situation or

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an terrible situation, row crop land in order

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to convert that to perennial, we would rather

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go with cover crops to get that established.

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But to revert back

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you know, for 1, I would want to

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understand the context to what somebody is wanting

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to do with that piece of land for

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taking it out of perennial,

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you know, the most

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drought resistant long as established, you know, the

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the most potentially productive grazing system there is

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right there.

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We would almost go backwards by reverting it

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out. Unless something catastrophic happened we needed to

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reset the system. But

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Yeah. You know, it's kinda reverse thinking.

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There... We got other tools in the toolbox

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at play to build diversity and make that

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bring system more profitable and productive.

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Then going backwards through the use of cover

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crops and added expenses in that direction, you

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know, I'm happy to let Brian chime in

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as well on that.

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Yeah. Luke hit all the main points. I

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was thinking of as well. It it really

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just doesn't make sense to tear up a

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perennial, like I said and go back annual

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in a grazing system. You can use adaptive

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grazing

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as your tool you know, to get more

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diversity with longer rest periods.

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You can use stock density, lots of different

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management tools with the grazing side of it

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to improve that at stand. And now we

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do get a lot of questions from people

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who have a perennial stand. They're well, kinda

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inter seeds some...

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You know, maybe they're lacking the warm seasons

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kinda inter seed into that. Perennial stand with

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some

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you know, warm season annual, for example, things

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like sorghum sedan.

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And, yes, you can do that, but it

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tends to be difficult to get a good

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stand that perennial mix is pretty competitive, and

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it's it it's just generally

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doesn't turn out that well. So

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Yep. And I think that, you know, to

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your point, Brian,

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we've been managing this place that we're on

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now for about 5 years 2 of those,

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maybe 3 of those were pretty severe drought

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years.

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And this year, we've had probably best 2

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years back to back that we've had since

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we've been there this year and last year.

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And what we're noticing is in some of

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those places because it was all old Hay

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field,

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very dominated by crest wheat,

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pretty spa, you know, a lot of bear

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ground.

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But what we're noticing in in some of

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those places now that we've had good moisture

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back to back years where we've had, you

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know, a few years of adaptive multi pad

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grazing style management.

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We're starting to see other things come in.

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And

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they maybe aren't... You know, they're not the

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the

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native warm seasons that we'd love to see

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eventually,

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but they're they're not... It's not only crest

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wheat anymore. You know, that latency seed bank

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is starting to express itself. Now this year,

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what I've been seeing is Alfalfa, and, obviously,

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we don't want that dominate the stand either,

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but it's better than

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it's something,

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another plant species out there doing what it

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can do to help the soil get back

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in shape is better than just that. Basically

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mono culture of crest wheat. So I think,

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you know, that's at least in my experience,

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true that just grazing right? Eventually, those

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those hay fields will begin to rebuild... Rehab

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themselves. Now can we speed that process up?

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You know, maybe, but again, back to Luke's

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point, it's context. You know, what is our

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context? What are we trying to accomplish?

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And then make our decisions

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from there. And I think that probably,

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at least in my mind, the scale is

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you know, if it's a if it's a

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mono culture of an introduced species like Crest

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Wheat grass,

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maybe maybe that helps us, tip the scales

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a little bit more in favor of entertaining

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the idea of a cover crop,

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but it's still gonna be a multi year

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process to get back to a perennial poly

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culture if we're gonna... If we're not going

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to cover crops. Is that is that true

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00:10:08,450 --> 00:10:09,085
in your experience?

272
00:10:11,246 --> 00:10:13,319
Yeah. Clint to that, you know, like you're

273
00:10:13,319 --> 00:10:14,993
saying, you you you had some drought periods

274
00:10:14,993 --> 00:10:16,747
there. You know, we can do everything right,

275
00:10:17,146 --> 00:10:18,501
you know. But if doesn't rain,

276
00:10:19,473 --> 00:10:20,829
you know, the decks against us. You know,

277
00:10:20,988 --> 00:10:22,366
we can only do so many things

278
00:10:23,222 --> 00:10:25,854
that compensate for lack of moisture. But we

279
00:10:25,854 --> 00:10:27,928
as humans, our our first inclination is to

280
00:10:27,928 --> 00:10:28,906
go in there and

281
00:10:29,218 --> 00:10:30,412
we gotta... We gotta do to fix this.

282
00:10:30,572 --> 00:10:31,766
We're gonna spend... Work gonna through all their

283
00:10:31,766 --> 00:10:33,199
cards on the table. Through the money after

284
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:35,269
and cover crop seeds. Both, if you're not

285
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:37,020
getting enough moisture to get your forage to

286
00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:39,020
produce anyway, why do we think even though

287
00:10:39,020 --> 00:10:40,449
it's a, you know, a better,

288
00:10:41,719 --> 00:10:43,782
maybe a potentially better cover crop it'll will

289
00:10:43,782 --> 00:10:46,059
utilize moisture a little bit more efficiently. Because

290
00:10:46,259 --> 00:10:47,876
but it still takes moisture for those,

291
00:10:49,130 --> 00:10:51,284
you know, added seeds in that system to

292
00:10:51,284 --> 00:10:53,517
to grow and do their job. So the

293
00:10:53,517 --> 00:10:54,713
steps that it would take for us to

294
00:10:54,713 --> 00:10:55,772
get those established

295
00:10:56,244 --> 00:10:56,744
whether

296
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,466
herbicide, till, or drilling, cops of seed, everything

297
00:11:00,466 --> 00:11:02,059
that we've... That we've taken there to do

298
00:11:02,059 --> 00:11:03,811
that. Maybe the best plan of attack would

299
00:11:03,811 --> 00:11:05,659
have been to des stock or or you

300
00:11:05,659 --> 00:11:07,495
know, fore go that ground bit just to

301
00:11:07,495 --> 00:11:09,411
let it actually do its job. Because as

302
00:11:09,411 --> 00:11:09,730
you said,

303
00:11:10,449 --> 00:11:11,966
now that you've got a little moisture how

304
00:11:11,966 --> 00:11:14,520
much better that ground has has responded to

305
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,628
that, proper management. So

306
00:11:17,243 --> 00:11:18,756
I'm not gonna cast stones to anybody that

307
00:11:18,756 --> 00:11:20,189
feels like they need to try to improve

308
00:11:20,189 --> 00:11:21,543
their system at all, but I think there's

309
00:11:21,543 --> 00:11:22,998
better things that we can do

310
00:11:23,787 --> 00:11:25,934
rest, you know, rest in just deferring that

311
00:11:25,934 --> 00:11:27,866
ground a little bit in those types of

312
00:11:27,923 --> 00:11:28,662
situations versus

313
00:11:29,037 --> 00:11:31,264
trying to maximize every little ounce out of

314
00:11:31,264 --> 00:11:32,003
it when

315
00:11:32,393 --> 00:11:35,018
It's really exhausting it if you will. When

316
00:11:35,018 --> 00:11:38,279
we talk about speeding up biological time, what

317
00:11:38,279 --> 00:11:40,768
is the what is that journey like? What

318
00:11:40,768 --> 00:11:42,446
are we... Where are we starting and where

319
00:11:42,446 --> 00:11:44,364
are we ending? What is the target we're

320
00:11:44,364 --> 00:11:46,303
shooting at when we're trying to

321
00:11:47,081 --> 00:11:48,520
speed up that biological time?

322
00:11:49,253 --> 00:11:51,162
Oh, that's a good question. I think it's

323
00:11:51,241 --> 00:11:52,116
I think it's pretty variable.

324
00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:56,091
Every environment, and, every climate is gonna respond

325
00:11:56,091 --> 00:11:58,574
differently. The the level of intent that you

326
00:11:58,574 --> 00:12:00,828
have as far as being dedicated to getting

327
00:12:01,444 --> 00:12:03,596
diverse living roots in that system. They're all

328
00:12:03,596 --> 00:12:06,162
gonna respond differently. So At the the wonderful

329
00:12:06,162 --> 00:12:08,977
thing about the regenerative standpoint here is that

330
00:12:09,115 --> 00:12:11,350
there's no recipe. There's no formula. The only

331
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:13,346
formula that I believe in is 634

332
00:12:13,346 --> 00:12:13,879
is it

333
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:16,236
that's what understanding that goes... That's our platform

334
00:12:16,236 --> 00:12:17,914
that we stand on. That's the only formula

335
00:12:17,914 --> 00:12:19,991
that that's it's all inclusive that goes across

336
00:12:19,991 --> 00:12:20,924
every acre. And

337
00:12:21,841 --> 00:12:23,593
how that fits into your context, that number

338
00:12:23,593 --> 00:12:24,230
1 principle.

339
00:12:24,867 --> 00:12:26,221
That's where we gotta go with this. But

340
00:12:26,221 --> 00:12:26,960
as far as

341
00:12:27,575 --> 00:12:29,487
timing, typically, the 3 to 5 year periods,

342
00:12:29,567 --> 00:12:31,892
what we like see things start to crank

343
00:12:31,892 --> 00:12:32,530
and turn around.

344
00:12:34,124 --> 00:12:35,239
You know, a lot of people say they

345
00:12:35,239 --> 00:12:36,833
wanna focus more on their degree they got

346
00:12:36,833 --> 00:12:39,403
land. Well, that's great that you you can.

347
00:12:39,962 --> 00:12:41,800
I would probably watch my my cost of

348
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,079
seed on on those acres,

349
00:12:43,878 --> 00:12:45,556
because you're probably gonna get a slower turnaround

350
00:12:45,556 --> 00:12:47,889
on those whereas I if I'm gonna start

351
00:12:47,889 --> 00:12:48,389
to

352
00:12:49,410 --> 00:12:51,490
increase biological activity, I'd probably even look at

353
00:12:51,490 --> 00:12:53,250
some of my board productive ground and better

354
00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:54,149
pad my better

355
00:12:54,769 --> 00:12:56,370
utilization of of money invested there.

356
00:12:57,183 --> 00:12:59,277
To really see some return on that. But

357
00:12:59,893 --> 00:13:02,147
that degraded source still the... It still needs

358
00:13:02,364 --> 00:13:04,277
something, some roots in there to get that

359
00:13:04,277 --> 00:13:06,122
to to start to come to life if

360
00:13:06,122 --> 00:13:07,553
you will and get some oxygen breed into

361
00:13:07,553 --> 00:13:07,951
that school.

362
00:13:08,666 --> 00:13:11,289
Yeah. That's that's a good question. Like Luke

363
00:13:11,289 --> 00:13:13,038
said, it's a tough question to answer because

364
00:13:13,038 --> 00:13:14,643
it comes us back to the context you

365
00:13:14,643 --> 00:13:16,703
know, if your goal, you know, we always

366
00:13:16,703 --> 00:13:18,368
come back which somebody wants to plan to

367
00:13:18,368 --> 00:13:20,111
cover crop? The first question is what is

368
00:13:20,111 --> 00:13:21,379
your goal? What are you trying to do?

369
00:13:21,855 --> 00:13:23,378
You So if your goal is to speed

370
00:13:23,378 --> 00:13:25,148
up biological time. There's

371
00:13:25,601 --> 00:13:26,339
some different

372
00:13:26,871 --> 00:13:28,380
indicators, I guess, you could say that you

373
00:13:28,380 --> 00:13:30,936
can use to assess... That our favorite obviously

374
00:13:30,936 --> 00:13:33,240
is soil aggregation. So just get out there

375
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:33,978
with the shovel

376
00:13:34,669 --> 00:13:36,973
and see, do you have any aggregation and

377
00:13:36,973 --> 00:13:39,613
how deep is it that So that's your

378
00:13:39,613 --> 00:13:42,401
number 1, you know, visual assessment you can

379
00:13:42,401 --> 00:13:44,154
do right there. Just how well aggregated is

380
00:13:44,154 --> 00:13:45,986
it your goal really should be to have

381
00:13:45,986 --> 00:13:47,993
a well aggregated soil. If you've got that,

382
00:13:48,073 --> 00:13:49,270
a lot of things are just gonna start

383
00:13:49,270 --> 00:13:49,749
to work.

384
00:13:50,387 --> 00:13:51,983
And then if you really wanna get in

385
00:13:51,983 --> 00:13:53,899
and look at the biology, you know, there's

386
00:13:53,899 --> 00:13:55,549
testing we can do can run out the

387
00:13:55,749 --> 00:13:58,561
phospholipid fatty acid or P test

388
00:13:59,337 --> 00:14:01,410
and look at the micro fungi, that'd be

389
00:14:01,410 --> 00:14:02,947
the big 1 there in Pro.

390
00:14:03,324 --> 00:14:04,701
If you have those or

391
00:14:05,013 --> 00:14:06,443
don't pad them and what are your levels.

392
00:14:06,681 --> 00:14:09,222
So those those could give you some more

393
00:14:09,222 --> 00:14:09,722
concrete

394
00:14:10,731 --> 00:14:12,558
goals to shoot for if if you wanted

395
00:14:12,558 --> 00:14:13,908
to have a specific target.

396
00:14:15,593 --> 00:14:17,502
Yep. And I think that when we're talking

397
00:14:17,502 --> 00:14:20,388
about biological time, we're talking about the

398
00:14:21,654 --> 00:14:23,115
we're talking about the biological

399
00:14:23,654 --> 00:14:25,975
community that's present in the soil. Right? That's

400
00:14:25,975 --> 00:14:27,254
what you're talking about there a little bit,

401
00:14:27,335 --> 00:14:30,134
the the micro fungi and the Pro z,

402
00:14:30,788 --> 00:14:33,733
But in systems that are less healthy,

403
00:14:34,528 --> 00:14:36,836
as I understand it, more often than not,

404
00:14:36,996 --> 00:14:39,622
they are dominated by a bacterial community,

405
00:14:40,273 --> 00:14:42,813
and in systems that are more more healthy?

406
00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:45,218
Again, as I understand it, they're are dominated

407
00:14:45,273 --> 00:14:47,440
by a fungal community. Is that accurate

408
00:14:48,149 --> 00:14:49,910
that's still a ruin rule thumb anyway that

409
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:51,769
they say, but I think that

410
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:54,870
especially here we're we're Brian and I, you

411
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:56,710
know, primarily out in the row crop world.

412
00:14:57,922 --> 00:15:00,627
If we get everything to drive heavily fungal,

413
00:15:00,786 --> 00:15:02,161
or we're gonna revert back to

414
00:15:03,173 --> 00:15:05,162
timbers or and things like that, we're brush

415
00:15:05,162 --> 00:15:06,689
species, and we gotta find that balance. So

416
00:15:06,769 --> 00:15:08,363
I think our job here in the Midwest

417
00:15:08,363 --> 00:15:10,276
and on the row crop systems more importantly

418
00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:12,428
is to define that balance of of fungal

419
00:15:12,428 --> 00:15:14,794
and bacteria ratio. It still takes bacteria. So

420
00:15:14,994 --> 00:15:16,110
know, you hear a lot of people say

421
00:15:16,110 --> 00:15:17,783
they want a 1 to 1 ratio. Well,

422
00:15:18,820 --> 00:15:20,334
that's that's good, and it sounds good on

423
00:15:20,334 --> 00:15:21,848
paper. But to me, I just want as

424
00:15:21,848 --> 00:15:23,537
much back and as much fungi giant and

425
00:15:23,537 --> 00:15:25,132
much pros, I wanna all and let them

426
00:15:25,132 --> 00:15:26,429
bounce them out, you know, ray

427
00:15:26,806 --> 00:15:28,799
like we said, Mick was letter, from mother

428
00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:30,473
interested intercept appealing separated and say safe, we're

429
00:15:30,473 --> 00:15:32,481
organizing. If we allow, So we gotta work

430
00:15:32,481 --> 00:15:32,959
within that.

431
00:15:34,074 --> 00:15:34,870
But, yeah. It's

432
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:38,693
that is the true statement that that they

433
00:15:38,693 --> 00:15:40,286
always say the more healthy the more fungal.

434
00:15:41,575 --> 00:15:42,075
But,

435
00:15:42,610 --> 00:15:42,929
you know,

436
00:15:43,566 --> 00:15:45,500
back to your question on that, that biological

437
00:15:45,637 --> 00:15:46,115
priming though,

438
00:15:47,469 --> 00:15:49,482
I wanted to re address. So just for

439
00:15:49,634 --> 00:15:51,331
for an example myself. So

440
00:15:52,107 --> 00:15:53,861
some of the timbers soul I farm for

441
00:15:53,861 --> 00:15:56,334
row crop is very degraded. Very thin, very

442
00:15:56,334 --> 00:15:57,929
very white if you will. We call it

443
00:15:57,929 --> 00:15:58,966
white white sugar oil.

444
00:16:00,338 --> 00:16:01,936
Build some fence on a couple years ago

445
00:16:01,936 --> 00:16:03,534
with the antenna of creating livestock back on

446
00:16:03,534 --> 00:16:05,611
the ground. And this ground is... That was

447
00:16:05,611 --> 00:16:06,570
very conventionally formed.

448
00:16:07,461 --> 00:16:09,047
Up until I started taking it over here

449
00:16:09,047 --> 00:16:09,841
a couple years ago.

450
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:13,331
I seeded a cool season mix on it.

451
00:16:14,379 --> 00:16:16,133
And this farm has not seen livestock in

452
00:16:16,133 --> 00:16:17,968
over 70 years. This is my grandparents farm.

453
00:16:18,127 --> 00:16:19,563
So I built fence on I put cattle

454
00:16:19,563 --> 00:16:20,600
out there. I got the video of the

455
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,557
cattle went out there for the first time

456
00:16:21,557 --> 00:16:23,392
in over 7 7 decades.

457
00:16:24,362 --> 00:16:27,142
Very bacterial dominant soil, very degraded lack of

458
00:16:27,142 --> 00:16:29,047
diversity other than weeds forbes, if you will.

459
00:16:30,397 --> 00:16:32,797
But within that first seat does, round of

460
00:16:32,797 --> 00:16:34,869
grazing, we had dumb beetles coming in. And

461
00:16:34,869 --> 00:16:36,940
if you dug up that soil just looking

462
00:16:36,940 --> 00:16:38,773
at aggregation in the rise she saw those

463
00:16:38,773 --> 00:16:39,012
roots,

464
00:16:40,143 --> 00:16:41,500
So I don't know how that happened,

465
00:16:42,538 --> 00:16:44,373
but it did. You know, so it's just

466
00:16:44,373 --> 00:16:46,288
1 of the things timing wise, it can

467
00:16:46,288 --> 00:16:47,406
happen within that first year.

468
00:16:48,296 --> 00:16:49,510
There's something about

469
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,027
good systems or... I don't know if there's

470
00:16:52,027 --> 00:16:52,924
some kind of

471
00:16:53,297 --> 00:16:55,122
radar shooting up out of the ground so

472
00:16:55,122 --> 00:16:57,043
says come here. There's life here, but it

473
00:16:57,043 --> 00:16:57,838
can happen very fast.

474
00:16:58,793 --> 00:17:00,304
What we do know about Dung beetles is

475
00:17:00,304 --> 00:17:02,850
they have wings. Right? That's right. They'll find

476
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:04,600
it. They will find it. If you build

477
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:05,237
it, they will.

478
00:17:05,967 --> 00:17:07,876
But it's just crazy that even within just...

479
00:17:08,432 --> 00:17:10,523
I'm talking a 7 acre piece and,

480
00:17:10,977 --> 00:17:13,204
you know, AAZ on an elephant butt, in

481
00:17:13,204 --> 00:17:15,112
our in our landscape, and they found.

482
00:17:15,843 --> 00:17:16,002
Yep.

483
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:20,006
Same same here. It was, you know, first

484
00:17:20,063 --> 00:17:23,089
week of turning turning livestock out in our

485
00:17:23,089 --> 00:17:23,487
neighborhood.

486
00:17:24,537 --> 00:17:25,732
You know, and that was the first thing.

487
00:17:26,051 --> 00:17:27,167
Not the first thing. But 1 of the

488
00:17:27,167 --> 00:17:28,680
first things we ask people who are gonna

489
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,172
send us custom grazing, livestock is

490
00:17:31,565 --> 00:17:32,224
could you

491
00:17:32,605 --> 00:17:33,585
refrain from any

492
00:17:33,884 --> 00:17:36,944
applications of of dew or pesticides

493
00:17:37,404 --> 00:17:39,404
in the, you know, at least 3 months

494
00:17:39,404 --> 00:17:41,179
before they come to us? If if they've

495
00:17:41,179 --> 00:17:43,097
never had it, that's even better. But, you

496
00:17:43,097 --> 00:17:44,076
know, And

497
00:17:44,535 --> 00:17:45,994
we've... I've never

498
00:17:46,373 --> 00:17:48,691
failed to be able to find dung beetles

499
00:17:48,691 --> 00:17:50,542
in a mini pat. You know, in the

500
00:17:50,542 --> 00:17:53,333
years that we've we've had livestock coming. So...

501
00:17:53,811 --> 00:17:56,602
And it was like very quick. Yeah. I

502
00:17:56,602 --> 00:17:58,356
mean to prime that biology in the soil.

503
00:17:59,488 --> 00:18:01,243
There's no better way. You know, I think

504
00:18:01,243 --> 00:18:02,281
all all of the stuff that we're applying.

505
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:03,956
A lot of the things we're doing. We're

506
00:18:03,956 --> 00:18:05,233
just trying to mimic what the room it's

507
00:18:05,233 --> 00:18:06,190
did for the landscapes.

508
00:18:06,763 --> 00:18:08,991
Through their saliva, the, their Dan.

509
00:18:09,945 --> 00:18:11,616
You name it. No bug in a jug

510
00:18:11,616 --> 00:18:12,332
that you can buy,

511
00:18:13,699 --> 00:18:14,969
we'll mimic what the rum roommates will do.

512
00:18:15,127 --> 00:18:17,192
So you wanna talk about ex expedition that

513
00:18:17,192 --> 00:18:19,335
biological process or the the inventory there,

514
00:18:20,129 --> 00:18:22,054
get room minutes it's on the ground. That's

515
00:18:22,054 --> 00:18:23,492
that's that's critical. Because we're really just trying

516
00:18:23,492 --> 00:18:24,451
to mimic what they did.

517
00:18:25,969 --> 00:18:27,487
Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.

518
00:18:28,286 --> 00:18:29,745
Brian had something add there

519
00:18:30,138 --> 00:18:31,967
Yeah. I I'm was just gonna say we

520
00:18:31,967 --> 00:18:34,377
do tend to have very bacterial dominated

521
00:18:34,831 --> 00:18:37,553
soils in our cropping systems and kinda have

522
00:18:37,553 --> 00:18:39,629
step back, understand why that's happening. If you

523
00:18:39,629 --> 00:18:41,066
think about natural succession,

524
00:18:41,864 --> 00:18:42,742
you know, say,

525
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:46,255
hurricane tornado or whatever something comes through and

526
00:18:46,255 --> 00:18:48,343
just wipes the slate clean. You're gonna start

527
00:18:48,343 --> 00:18:50,655
with a very bacterial dominated and then over

528
00:18:50,655 --> 00:18:52,409
time, it's gonna become more and more fungal.

529
00:18:53,446 --> 00:18:54,823
Eventually end up with the climax

530
00:18:55,851 --> 00:18:57,942
ecosystem with lots of trees and

531
00:18:58,476 --> 00:19:00,862
that sort of thing. But, in an annual

532
00:19:00,862 --> 00:19:01,737
cropping system,

533
00:19:02,469 --> 00:19:04,467
we basically kinda get to the point where

534
00:19:04,467 --> 00:19:06,305
we're starting to see, like the angle weeds,

535
00:19:06,544 --> 00:19:08,382
you know, getting a little bit more funnel,

536
00:19:08,542 --> 00:19:10,060
but then every year, we hit the reset

537
00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:10,300
button.

538
00:19:10,952 --> 00:19:12,384
You know, if you go in with till,

539
00:19:12,622 --> 00:19:15,907
if you're using herbicides, fungi sides, especially

540
00:19:16,679 --> 00:19:17,157
bacteria.

541
00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:19,410
They're they're tough little bugger. They I can

542
00:19:19,410 --> 00:19:21,570
withstand just about anything. We always have bacteria,

543
00:19:21,730 --> 00:19:22,549
but the fungi

544
00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:26,070
are much more sensitive to those disturbances. So

545
00:19:26,384 --> 00:19:28,219
In these annual systems, we just keep hitting

546
00:19:28,219 --> 00:19:30,294
the reset button every year and kinda driving

547
00:19:30,294 --> 00:19:30,794
that

548
00:19:31,890 --> 00:19:34,698
ratio back towards fungal dominance. So a lot

549
00:19:34,698 --> 00:19:36,133
of what we work on with Producers, is

550
00:19:36,133 --> 00:19:37,727
just figuring on how do we minimize some

551
00:19:37,727 --> 00:19:39,321
of that disruption. That's 1 of our big

552
00:19:39,321 --> 00:19:40,277
soil health principles.

553
00:19:41,074 --> 00:19:43,316
And the reason that works it's because it

554
00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:45,140
allows that soil to heal and allows us

555
00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:47,861
to your your fungal populations, especially a micro

556
00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:51,106
fungi guy to reorganize that soil. Certainly.

557
00:19:51,663 --> 00:19:53,674
1 of the things that you mentioned in

558
00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:56,674
this process of, you know, just assessing where

559
00:19:56,674 --> 00:19:57,072
you're at.

560
00:19:57,804 --> 00:19:59,718
Is, you know, get out there and and

561
00:19:59,718 --> 00:20:02,749
examine the aggregation and and now it's been

562
00:20:02,749 --> 00:20:05,142
all of 5 days, I think since I

563
00:20:05,142 --> 00:20:06,737
left the Soil Health academy. But if I

564
00:20:06,737 --> 00:20:09,059
remember right, the 4 tools that we should

565
00:20:09,059 --> 00:20:12,557
be using to examine soil, health is the

566
00:20:12,557 --> 00:20:14,703
shovel, the thermometer, the grazing stick and the

567
00:20:14,703 --> 00:20:16,451
ref ref thermometer. I'm not sure about the

568
00:20:16,451 --> 00:20:18,460
grazing stick it might be something else. But

569
00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:20,215
though... I know I'm pretty confident on the

570
00:20:20,215 --> 00:20:21,971
on the on those 3, for sure, the

571
00:20:21,971 --> 00:20:23,986
shovel, the thermometer and the ref ref thermometer

572
00:20:24,776 --> 00:20:25,173
is that...

573
00:20:26,047 --> 00:20:27,795
I'm right about that. Is it what... Was

574
00:20:27,795 --> 00:20:29,305
the fourth 1 the grazing stick? Is there...

575
00:20:29,543 --> 00:20:30,815
Is... Or is it a different 1 that

576
00:20:30,894 --> 00:20:31,291
I forgot?

577
00:20:32,739 --> 00:20:35,128
We recommend, like an infiltration, it's some infiltration

578
00:20:35,128 --> 00:20:38,074
test. That's it. The infiltration ring? Okay. So...

579
00:20:38,631 --> 00:20:39,927
But we're examining

580
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,840
the the aggregation with, you know, really,

581
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,019
we're examining the

582
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,420
aggregation for sure with the shovel and the

583
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:51,521
infiltration ring, Right? That... Those things kinda tell

584
00:20:51,521 --> 00:20:53,271
you about how fast you can get water

585
00:20:53,271 --> 00:20:54,465
into the soil and how much water it

586
00:20:54,465 --> 00:20:54,942
can hold.

587
00:20:56,469 --> 00:20:58,536
You know, and then they just talk a

588
00:20:58,536 --> 00:21:00,603
little bit about, you know, using these tools

589
00:21:00,603 --> 00:21:03,466
and and examining where we're at and kinda

590
00:21:03,466 --> 00:21:05,631
how that can help us, inform some of

591
00:21:05,631 --> 00:21:07,306
what we're trying to do with the... With

592
00:21:07,306 --> 00:21:08,104
the cover crops.

593
00:21:09,460 --> 00:21:11,374
Yeah. Be bet. So like I guess I

594
00:21:11,374 --> 00:21:12,570
can start off, Brian, you can follow up.

595
00:21:12,730 --> 00:21:14,739
But simple thing that you do is you

596
00:21:14,739 --> 00:21:16,577
know, get the spade. Yeah. If if anybody

597
00:21:16,577 --> 00:21:18,176
you're working with doesn't show up your farm

598
00:21:18,176 --> 00:21:20,893
without with a spade fire. They're not worth

599
00:21:20,893 --> 00:21:22,331
your you're working not worth your time, they're

600
00:21:22,331 --> 00:21:23,950
there to sell you something. So

601
00:21:24,344 --> 00:21:25,460
somebody shows up with the spade, at least

602
00:21:25,540 --> 00:21:26,678
I have some kind of

603
00:21:27,135 --> 00:21:28,252
inclination of what's going on or read the

604
00:21:28,252 --> 00:21:29,528
soar or list they're willing to put a

605
00:21:29,528 --> 00:21:31,601
little work in. So dig that fade up,

606
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:32,957
how easy does this fade you to the

607
00:21:32,957 --> 00:21:35,201
ground. Right? Check it against your cropping fields,

608
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,350
check it against your rows, find those un

609
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:39,976
underserved areas. So you can least feel for

610
00:21:39,976 --> 00:21:41,965
yourself and and keep those in your mind

611
00:21:41,965 --> 00:21:43,652
when you're when you're doing it, and digging

612
00:21:43,652 --> 00:21:45,565
around? And when you dig up those soils,

613
00:21:46,123 --> 00:21:47,319
how do they look? How do they how

614
00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:48,834
do they apply up out of the soil?

615
00:21:48,993 --> 00:21:50,348
Or is it har? Is it is it

616
00:21:50,348 --> 00:21:52,756
is it does it Does it rip and

617
00:21:52,756 --> 00:21:54,590
tear do you hear rich rip and tear.

618
00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:56,265
And those are those are sounds and things

619
00:21:56,265 --> 00:21:58,259
that you can listen for a user senses

620
00:21:58,259 --> 00:22:00,253
why you're doing all these things. Side sounds

621
00:22:00,253 --> 00:22:01,051
smells, you name it.

622
00:22:02,261 --> 00:22:03,934
As you dig get best that that's paid

623
00:22:03,934 --> 00:22:06,165
of soil. I like to off the sheer

624
00:22:06,165 --> 00:22:07,360
side, I'd like to just break it down

625
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:09,193
the middle and really get an observation of

626
00:22:09,193 --> 00:22:11,160
what that soil looks like without being,

627
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,920
cup through with the spade, but then we

628
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,680
look for the aggregation, as Brian has talked

629
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,279
about here. And it's that... Do we have

630
00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:17,440
that,

631
00:22:18,494 --> 00:22:21,291
chocolate cake. Some say, cottage cheese. I'd I

632
00:22:21,291 --> 00:22:23,689
prefer chocolate cake, over cottage cheese by a

633
00:22:23,689 --> 00:22:25,527
long way. So doesn't it look like a

634
00:22:25,527 --> 00:22:27,980
chocolate cake, that por, the the crumbly granular

635
00:22:28,099 --> 00:22:30,170
kinda of kinda structure, How deep is that?

636
00:22:30,409 --> 00:22:32,001
Can you see that layer of carbon that

637
00:22:32,001 --> 00:22:33,515
we're pumping into that system? Do you see

638
00:22:33,515 --> 00:22:36,063
that moving deeper? And take these samples and

639
00:22:36,063 --> 00:22:37,515
compare them to each other? From the row

640
00:22:37,515 --> 00:22:39,674
crop and they disturb there minimize a serve

641
00:22:39,674 --> 00:22:39,994
area.

642
00:22:41,275 --> 00:22:43,035
Look for that. You know, what's the what's

643
00:22:43,035 --> 00:22:45,035
the temperature feel like? Use your thermometer, look

644
00:22:45,035 --> 00:22:47,680
at the surface temperature get the get the

645
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,348
probe from that thermometer and check this this

646
00:22:49,905 --> 00:22:51,892
4 inch temperature. See what the differences are

647
00:22:51,892 --> 00:22:52,050
there.

648
00:22:53,004 --> 00:22:54,594
I was out in Kansas a couple years

649
00:22:54,594 --> 00:22:54,752
ago,

650
00:22:55,643 --> 00:22:58,275
and seeing a guy doing some till work

651
00:22:58,275 --> 00:23:00,667
after wheat harvest. And I I couldn't help,

652
00:23:00,747 --> 00:23:02,501
but not go in there and and see

653
00:23:02,501 --> 00:23:04,175
what was what the status was. The gentleman

654
00:23:04,175 --> 00:23:05,463
was far end of the field so Knew

655
00:23:05,463 --> 00:23:06,894
it wasn't gonna guarantee catch me. The slow

656
00:23:06,894 --> 00:23:08,404
of the pace he was going till that

657
00:23:08,404 --> 00:23:10,653
field, but I slipped that in the field

658
00:23:10,869 --> 00:23:12,355
in the soil temperature far

659
00:23:13,112 --> 00:23:15,264
was a hundred and 41

660
00:23:15,264 --> 00:23:16,698
degrees. Of soil. So I went out on

661
00:23:16,698 --> 00:23:18,691
the oil chip black top road that I

662
00:23:18,691 --> 00:23:20,125
drove in on is a hundred and 29.

663
00:23:21,099 --> 00:23:22,937
Okay. So our soils are harder than asphalt,

664
00:23:23,336 --> 00:23:25,095
and that that shouldn't That shouldn't make sense,

665
00:23:25,254 --> 00:23:27,412
But it's just... Those observations like that. We

666
00:23:27,412 --> 00:23:29,330
need to be making. So we're definitely lacking

667
00:23:29,330 --> 00:23:29,570
armor.

668
00:23:30,698 --> 00:23:31,095
Lacking

669
00:23:32,048 --> 00:23:33,636
aggregation to the help gonna stay in the

670
00:23:33,636 --> 00:23:34,033
that soil.

671
00:23:34,985 --> 00:23:36,097
Those are the things that we'd like to

672
00:23:36,097 --> 00:23:37,367
look for with the state. And then the

673
00:23:37,367 --> 00:23:38,558
the infiltration test,

674
00:23:39,767 --> 00:23:40,724
get you a water bottle,

675
00:23:41,681 --> 00:23:44,152
444 milliliters is equivalent of an inch of

676
00:23:44,152 --> 00:23:45,667
rainfall. So get your a water bottle dump

677
00:23:45,667 --> 00:23:46,863
out about where the neck taper is down.

678
00:23:47,103 --> 00:23:48,873
It's close enough. And then time it.

679
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:51,907
If you're sitting in there past 10 minutes

680
00:23:51,907 --> 00:23:53,024
kick it out, move on. Know you got

681
00:23:53,024 --> 00:23:54,541
better things to do. You can sit there

682
00:23:54,541 --> 00:23:55,819
and watch if you wanna relieve it and

683
00:23:55,819 --> 00:23:56,537
come back and check it.

684
00:23:58,229 --> 00:23:59,425
But I got to million irons in the

685
00:23:59,425 --> 00:24:01,021
fire. So if it's 10 minutes, I'm kicking

686
00:24:01,021 --> 00:24:02,377
it out and moving on. But observe how

687
00:24:02,377 --> 00:24:03,574
fast that water's is trading,

688
00:24:04,292 --> 00:24:06,219
observe the the the conditions that when you

689
00:24:06,219 --> 00:24:07,891
did that. Was it rainy before? You know,

690
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:10,040
it's gonna be reduced infiltration prior to that.

691
00:24:10,677 --> 00:24:11,951
If we had brain prior to doing that

692
00:24:11,951 --> 00:24:12,190
test,

693
00:24:13,225 --> 00:24:14,277
the things like that.

694
00:24:15,874 --> 00:24:17,869
And then the ref ref, you know, as

695
00:24:17,869 --> 00:24:19,705
we improve aggregation as we pump more carbon

696
00:24:19,705 --> 00:24:22,274
in the system, build more soil health. Those

697
00:24:22,274 --> 00:24:24,192
bricks levels will start to increase as well.

698
00:24:24,431 --> 00:24:26,189
And, Brian you can chime in,

699
00:24:27,467 --> 00:24:28,746
whatever else you'd like to on that as

700
00:24:28,746 --> 00:24:28,905
well.

701
00:24:30,198 --> 00:24:31,794
Yeah. I was just gonna say on the

702
00:24:31,794 --> 00:24:34,346
infiltration, obviously incredibly important. So that's really gonna

703
00:24:34,346 --> 00:24:36,341
give us a good indication of do we

704
00:24:36,341 --> 00:24:38,586
have those reports in the soil because about

705
00:24:38,586 --> 00:24:41,531
70 percent of your infiltration rate. It's actually

706
00:24:41,531 --> 00:24:43,203
that, like the big Mac cores that are

707
00:24:43,203 --> 00:24:46,245
made by, say, earth channel or older channels

708
00:24:46,245 --> 00:24:48,717
or something like that. So again, if you've

709
00:24:48,717 --> 00:24:50,551
got too much disturbance, you're not gonna have

710
00:24:50,551 --> 00:24:52,226
that, It's gonna shut down your infiltration rate.

711
00:24:52,465 --> 00:24:53,981
So I like to see it under 5,

712
00:24:54,634 --> 00:24:56,392
you know, even even a minute or 2

713
00:24:56,392 --> 00:24:58,470
for that first engine a really healthy soil

714
00:24:58,470 --> 00:25:00,228
is is entirely achievable.

715
00:25:00,867 --> 00:25:01,986
The other 1 I like to do out

716
00:25:01,986 --> 00:25:04,238
in the field is just looking at how

717
00:25:04,238 --> 00:25:05,594
stable are those aggregates.

718
00:25:06,551 --> 00:25:08,704
So super easy test, just get yourself yourself

719
00:25:08,704 --> 00:25:09,740
a little scoop of water,

720
00:25:10,538 --> 00:25:12,053
take a little pen of soil and drop

721
00:25:12,053 --> 00:25:13,825
it in there and Just let it sit

722
00:25:13,825 --> 00:25:15,345
for about 30 seconds and see if it

723
00:25:15,345 --> 00:25:15,825
falls apart.

724
00:25:16,544 --> 00:25:18,224
And then give it a quick sore oil

725
00:25:18,224 --> 00:25:19,984
for maybe 5 seconds again, see if it

726
00:25:19,984 --> 00:25:22,334
falls apart. If you have the biological

727
00:25:22,709 --> 00:25:23,209
glues

728
00:25:23,664 --> 00:25:25,653
that you need for stable aggregation,

729
00:25:26,290 --> 00:25:28,757
that little pad soil should hold together and

730
00:25:28,757 --> 00:25:31,880
that water should stay clear. Another super simple

731
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,076
easy test you can do in the field.

732
00:25:33,236 --> 00:25:35,150
If you really wanna know how are you

733
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:37,223
doing on aggregation? Not only does how... How

734
00:25:37,223 --> 00:25:39,138
does it look, but how stable are those

735
00:25:39,138 --> 00:25:40,230
aggregates because

736
00:25:40,909 --> 00:25:43,546
They're constantly being formed and broken down in

737
00:25:43,546 --> 00:25:44,845
the soil by the biology.

738
00:25:45,703 --> 00:25:47,941
So the the numbers that I've heard somewhere

739
00:25:47,941 --> 00:25:48,920
on 4 weeks

740
00:25:49,314 --> 00:25:51,468
is about how long an aggregate actually last.

741
00:25:52,345 --> 00:25:53,941
So if you think about that, if you

742
00:25:53,941 --> 00:25:55,856
go longer than 4 weeks without a living

743
00:25:55,856 --> 00:25:56,356
root

744
00:25:56,669 --> 00:25:58,742
you're gonna start losing aggregation. And you're gonna

745
00:25:58,742 --> 00:26:01,373
start losing those biological glues that that hold

746
00:26:01,373 --> 00:26:02,409
those aggregates together.

747
00:26:03,047 --> 00:26:04,164
Let's take a quick break in hear a

748
00:26:04,164 --> 00:26:05,200
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749
00:26:05,851 --> 00:26:08,075
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750
00:26:08,075 --> 00:26:11,195
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751
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752
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753
00:26:16,595 --> 00:26:17,095
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754
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755
00:26:19,064 --> 00:26:19,803
and profit

756
00:26:20,258 --> 00:26:23,460
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757
00:26:23,460 --> 00:26:24,018
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758
00:26:24,577 --> 00:26:26,331
and there are 2 primary reasons for that.

759
00:26:26,889 --> 00:26:27,208
First,

760
00:26:28,085 --> 00:26:30,717
understanding ag consultants are farmers and ranchers who've

761
00:26:30,717 --> 00:26:33,360
been there done that on their own regenerative

762
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:34,793
farms. And second,

763
00:26:35,429 --> 00:26:37,977
understanding ag consultants aren't in the business to

764
00:26:37,977 --> 00:26:39,250
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765
00:26:39,904 --> 00:26:41,904
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766
00:26:41,904 --> 00:26:42,224
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767
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768
00:26:46,065 --> 00:26:48,785
Learn more at understanding ag dot com and

769
00:26:48,785 --> 00:26:52,230
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770
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:52,730
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771
00:26:53,107 --> 00:26:54,006
understanding ag

772
00:26:54,383 --> 00:26:56,695
dot com. I think it would probably be

773
00:26:56,695 --> 00:26:58,152
fair to say that

774
00:26:58,704 --> 00:27:01,261
on the mean or in, you know, in

775
00:27:01,261 --> 00:27:01,661
the mean,

776
00:27:02,780 --> 00:27:03,339
on average,

777
00:27:04,378 --> 00:27:06,935
many of our, especially row crop acres, but

778
00:27:06,935 --> 00:27:09,902
all really, many of our agricultural acres in

779
00:27:09,902 --> 00:27:10,402
general

780
00:27:10,779 --> 00:27:13,252
in America are going to to tend to

781
00:27:13,252 --> 00:27:13,752
be

782
00:27:14,528 --> 00:27:17,102
bacterial dominated and not well aggregated.

783
00:27:18,372 --> 00:27:19,192
And so

784
00:27:19,729 --> 00:27:20,847
we could just say,

785
00:27:21,485 --> 00:27:21,985
here's

786
00:27:22,922 --> 00:27:25,237
something something to consider. We're not giving you

787
00:27:25,237 --> 00:27:27,084
a a recipe. 6 to 3 and the

788
00:27:27,084 --> 00:27:29,944
4. You know, those are principles. They apply

789
00:27:29,944 --> 00:27:31,375
everywhere. They work everywhere they're tried.

790
00:27:32,646 --> 00:27:34,653
So... But 6 what are we gonna do?

791
00:27:35,053 --> 00:27:36,651
If we... If we do come to

792
00:27:37,210 --> 00:27:39,548
a field, and it's not well aggregated,

793
00:27:40,167 --> 00:27:41,605
and it is,

794
00:27:42,498 --> 00:27:44,560
you know, not not a healthy soil.

795
00:27:45,907 --> 00:27:47,914
How are we going? What's our what's our

796
00:27:48,603 --> 00:27:49,896
strategy going to be,

797
00:27:50,284 --> 00:27:52,595
on those acres with that cover crop.

798
00:27:53,472 --> 00:27:53,972
And

799
00:27:55,146 --> 00:27:56,341
we'll just start in the spring of the

800
00:27:56,341 --> 00:27:58,116
year, Say we're starting with our early

801
00:27:58,428 --> 00:27:59,936
or maybe even... Yeah. We'll just start in

802
00:27:59,936 --> 00:28:01,525
the spring of the year. What are we

803
00:28:01,525 --> 00:28:02,343
gonna do

804
00:28:02,955 --> 00:28:04,861
for the spring of the year to try

805
00:28:04,861 --> 00:28:06,767
try and start moving that field in the

806
00:28:06,767 --> 00:28:07,243
right direction?

807
00:28:07,973 --> 00:28:09,641
Yeah. Start off with the spring that you're...

808
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,547
As far as cover crops, your options are

809
00:28:11,547 --> 00:28:13,612
are pretty limited there. I mean, maybe if

810
00:28:13,612 --> 00:28:15,677
you're early enough some notes and p's potentially?

811
00:28:16,329 --> 00:28:16,808
Ahead of corn.

812
00:28:17,526 --> 00:28:18,802
I know there are some spring seated.

813
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,356
You know, it's spring cereals, winter cereals,

814
00:28:22,233 --> 00:28:23,351
you know, trade kale,

815
00:28:24,164 --> 00:28:25,525
things like that. They could be done ahead

816
00:28:25,525 --> 00:28:25,924
of beans.

817
00:28:26,724 --> 00:28:28,325
In the springtime time, though, it's really...

818
00:28:29,285 --> 00:28:31,619
It gets tough, trying to get something established

819
00:28:31,619 --> 00:28:33,217
there. I'd probably more so look at. What

820
00:28:33,217 --> 00:28:35,694
am Doing? Otherwise physical disturbances that I can

821
00:28:35,694 --> 00:28:37,691
reduce to start moving that needle to possibly

822
00:28:37,691 --> 00:28:39,782
get the ball rolling and better for a

823
00:28:39,782 --> 00:28:41,693
fall seeding or or late summer seeding.

824
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:43,763
It depends on what the crop is gonna

825
00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:45,038
be there, You know, it's the whole it

826
00:28:45,038 --> 00:28:45,595
depends button.

827
00:28:46,232 --> 00:28:47,767
There's a lot of variables there

828
00:28:48,556 --> 00:28:51,103
but definitely, it's if it's going to to

829
00:28:51,103 --> 00:28:51,341
corn,

830
00:28:52,854 --> 00:28:54,445
can I know till? It's it's a ground

831
00:28:54,445 --> 00:28:55,878
and good enough situation where I can note

832
00:28:55,878 --> 00:28:57,803
till. If it's been fall plowed, obviously, you

833
00:28:57,803 --> 00:28:59,707
know, you've set the stage in the fall

834
00:28:59,707 --> 00:29:01,159
if you... If you hit that first

835
00:29:01,612 --> 00:29:03,357
river pass. Well, you're gonna have to strike

836
00:29:03,357 --> 00:29:05,358
off and level loss. So, you what are

837
00:29:05,358 --> 00:29:06,953
we doing now to build aggregates? You know,

838
00:29:07,113 --> 00:29:09,665
we obviously probably have reduced soil armor.

839
00:29:10,782 --> 00:29:12,776
So the the needle moved against is pretty

840
00:29:12,776 --> 00:29:14,132
hard here. So in the spring, it gets

841
00:29:14,132 --> 00:29:14,690
a little tough.

842
00:29:15,818 --> 00:29:17,486
Does it have to be corner soybeans? You

843
00:29:17,486 --> 00:29:18,915
know, is this an opportunity to get a

844
00:29:18,915 --> 00:29:20,663
diverse oak crop in the system. If there's

845
00:29:20,663 --> 00:29:21,298
a market there.

846
00:29:22,013 --> 00:29:23,839
This all comes down to what the individual

847
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:26,564
is willing to do in their economic context,

848
00:29:26,882 --> 00:29:28,956
what's sort market context, You know, this this

849
00:29:28,956 --> 00:29:31,588
all weighs on on men and we can

850
00:29:31,588 --> 00:29:33,901
we can work through these situations with each

851
00:29:33,901 --> 00:29:34,220
producer.

852
00:29:35,591 --> 00:29:37,824
You know, has there been followed applied fertility

853
00:29:37,824 --> 00:29:39,600
that's potentially set our

854
00:29:41,094 --> 00:29:43,327
aggregation potential building back. And most of the

855
00:29:43,327 --> 00:29:45,018
time, that's the case in the in the

856
00:29:45,018 --> 00:29:45,736
row crop world,

857
00:29:47,812 --> 00:29:49,728
lot of follow applied fertility, and we're seeing

858
00:29:49,728 --> 00:29:51,723
that, you know, in in masses.

859
00:29:53,653 --> 00:29:56,198
So really, starting to reduce my till passes.

860
00:29:56,676 --> 00:29:58,505
What am I doing for my herbicide programs.

861
00:30:00,509 --> 00:30:02,181
You know, most of times we do a

862
00:30:02,181 --> 00:30:04,331
blanket application of herbicide. You know, I used

863
00:30:04,331 --> 00:30:06,242
to work and at retail and pretty much

864
00:30:06,242 --> 00:30:08,154
it was a figure out a prescription. It

865
00:30:08,154 --> 00:30:10,399
was on every acre. There's corn soybeans. That's

866
00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:11,833
that's what you're gonna get your corn program

867
00:30:11,913 --> 00:30:13,426
Here's a your soybean program.

868
00:30:14,064 --> 00:30:15,418
Regardless of what your weed pressures are. This

869
00:30:15,418 --> 00:30:16,693
is what we're gonna run because it nukes

870
00:30:16,693 --> 00:30:18,446
everything, and and we don't have to worry

871
00:30:18,446 --> 00:30:21,006
about weed x y and z. So can

872
00:30:21,006 --> 00:30:22,596
we reduce those? Do we really have that

873
00:30:22,596 --> 00:30:25,141
bad weed pressure that we're applying excess amounts

874
00:30:25,141 --> 00:30:26,732
of of herbicides out there?

875
00:30:27,625 --> 00:30:28,984
Then it comes time in in in the

876
00:30:28,984 --> 00:30:30,505
season here, where we're talking about fungi side

877
00:30:30,505 --> 00:30:32,424
and insecticides. Do we really need that fungi

878
00:30:32,424 --> 00:30:34,105
decide. If we're planned early,

879
00:30:34,918 --> 00:30:36,592
potentially, you probably are gonna need, But there's

880
00:30:36,592 --> 00:30:38,506
a reason for that. Right? So if we

881
00:30:38,506 --> 00:30:40,021
wait a little later for that soil to

882
00:30:40,021 --> 00:30:42,174
warm up, can we potentially pull away from

883
00:30:42,174 --> 00:30:43,131
some of that fungi side?

884
00:30:43,703 --> 00:30:44,894
I believe so. Yep.

885
00:30:45,608 --> 00:30:47,196
That's probably 1 of the first things that

886
00:30:47,196 --> 00:30:49,657
myself, I feel confident in pulling away from

887
00:30:49,657 --> 00:30:50,372
is it's some of this,

888
00:30:51,975 --> 00:30:53,405
Seed treatment, especially on soybeans.

889
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,265
They're very resilient. The populations we plant them

890
00:30:56,265 --> 00:30:57,877
at. I've I've had no issues,

891
00:30:58,330 --> 00:30:59,204
pulling away my,

892
00:31:00,014 --> 00:31:01,533
ct there. So then you think about the

893
00:31:01,533 --> 00:31:03,690
rule of compounding, what does that do for

894
00:31:03,690 --> 00:31:04,250
us? Well,

895
00:31:05,768 --> 00:31:08,565
potential not... Knocking out some insect populations, we

896
00:31:08,565 --> 00:31:10,577
always here, doc Jonathan in Lu safe for

897
00:31:10,577 --> 00:31:12,415
everyone past your sending had other beneficial.

898
00:31:13,214 --> 00:31:15,131
Well, people have out all the slugs, things

899
00:31:15,131 --> 00:31:16,664
like that. Well, if you buy that treat

900
00:31:16,664 --> 00:31:18,345
that neon nick on that, that soybean Well,

901
00:31:18,424 --> 00:31:19,945
the slugs are gonna drag that across and

902
00:31:19,945 --> 00:31:20,825
start to tear out a lot of your

903
00:31:20,825 --> 00:31:22,825
ground beetles, which is the actual predator for

904
00:31:22,825 --> 00:31:24,596
some of these other issues that we've got

905
00:31:24,596 --> 00:31:25,952
in there. So it's just a rule of

906
00:31:25,952 --> 00:31:27,707
compounding there. The more we can start to

907
00:31:27,707 --> 00:31:29,642
pull away from some of those at their

908
00:31:30,020 --> 00:31:31,695
if they're if they're able to and if

909
00:31:31,695 --> 00:31:34,025
they're willing and can potentially you know if

910
00:31:34,025 --> 00:31:36,265
they economically can afford it, It all depends

911
00:31:36,265 --> 00:31:37,625
on their goals and their visions. What do

912
00:31:37,625 --> 00:31:39,144
they wanna... What do they wanna achieve here.

913
00:31:40,265 --> 00:31:41,545
As we move into the fall gets a

914
00:31:41,545 --> 00:31:43,953
lot easier though. As far as determining how

915
00:31:43,953 --> 00:31:45,011
you can start to

916
00:31:45,467 --> 00:31:47,459
improve that soil. Sometimes in the spring year,

917
00:31:47,618 --> 00:31:48,733
you just almost have to deal with that

918
00:31:48,733 --> 00:31:49,929
in a row crop world. But in the

919
00:31:49,929 --> 00:31:50,646
sprint in the fall,

920
00:31:52,493 --> 00:31:53,930
maybe in that springtime time, like you said,

921
00:31:54,089 --> 00:31:55,286
maybe I thought, well if I wanna get

922
00:31:55,286 --> 00:31:57,122
something established here this fall. This gives me

923
00:31:57,122 --> 00:31:58,797
the opportunity to up my mat maturity up,

924
00:31:58,877 --> 00:32:00,247
so I can get in there at a

925
00:32:00,247 --> 00:32:03,030
timely manner and get something established and have

926
00:32:03,030 --> 00:32:05,018
a better success rate. A lot of people

927
00:32:05,018 --> 00:32:06,529
are chasing Yield deal deal, which I get

928
00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:07,722
a yield as part of the equation.

929
00:32:08,851 --> 00:32:09,806
But we're still seeing,

930
00:32:10,522 --> 00:32:12,511
very economical yields even by bumping some of

931
00:32:12,511 --> 00:32:13,170
these mat

932
00:32:14,181 --> 00:32:16,409
understanding your different application methods of getting some

933
00:32:16,409 --> 00:32:18,415
of these cover crops established or or critical.

934
00:32:18,574 --> 00:32:20,964
There's aerial drone work now, inter seating. If

935
00:32:20,964 --> 00:32:23,035
you're if you're in a more northern climate,

936
00:32:24,644 --> 00:32:26,164
there's all those tools in 2 a toolbox

937
00:32:26,164 --> 00:32:28,164
to work. But, you know, you gotta be...

938
00:32:28,724 --> 00:32:30,325
Sometimes you gotta shoot from the head. And,

939
00:32:30,404 --> 00:32:32,005
you know, if there's weather coming and looks

940
00:32:32,005 --> 00:32:33,605
favorable to get some stuff established to it.

941
00:32:34,019 --> 00:32:35,608
You know, take the opportunity. But don't make

942
00:32:35,608 --> 00:32:37,515
sure you understand what species you're trying to

943
00:32:37,515 --> 00:32:39,899
establish as well. But starting out, I wanna

944
00:32:39,899 --> 00:32:41,886
get a lot grass species in there, get

945
00:32:41,886 --> 00:32:43,731
some get some fiber truths in there to

946
00:32:43,731 --> 00:32:45,880
start breaking up that compact layer those plated

947
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,553
soils and let those grow.

948
00:32:48,428 --> 00:32:49,941
Following that into the next year, you need

949
00:32:49,941 --> 00:32:50,658
to watch the weather,

950
00:32:51,295 --> 00:32:53,142
Truths you know, had times worth spinning about,

951
00:32:53,301 --> 00:32:55,054
I probably should terminated that cover crop a

952
00:32:55,054 --> 00:32:55,612
little sooner,

953
00:32:56,488 --> 00:32:58,082
by not observing the weather properly.

954
00:32:59,213 --> 00:33:00,728
So those are things you gotta watch. It's

955
00:33:00,728 --> 00:33:02,882
not an easy game. It's a thinking main

956
00:33:02,882 --> 00:33:03,041
game.

957
00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:05,594
So you gotta play the variables watch out

958
00:33:05,594 --> 00:33:07,588
for and really understand what you want that

959
00:33:07,588 --> 00:33:09,515
cover crop to do for you. And then

960
00:33:09,515 --> 00:33:10,391
manage accordingly.

961
00:33:11,346 --> 00:33:13,972
Yeah. That's exactly what I was getting at

962
00:33:13,972 --> 00:33:15,803
with that question is kind of the different

963
00:33:15,803 --> 00:33:16,303
routes

964
00:33:16,614 --> 00:33:19,012
you know, root systems and what they're doing

965
00:33:19,012 --> 00:33:21,649
in those soils to really kinda Yeah. Move

966
00:33:21,649 --> 00:33:23,487
the needle in the direction that you wanna

967
00:33:23,487 --> 00:33:24,846
go. And also,

968
00:33:25,325 --> 00:33:27,727
that's what I'm hoping to do here for

969
00:33:27,727 --> 00:33:29,555
a little bit here on this episode is

970
00:33:29,555 --> 00:33:31,780
just to to take a journey through the

971
00:33:31,780 --> 00:33:34,243
year. Like, what are we doing and and

972
00:33:34,243 --> 00:33:36,654
we've... We've... Talked about the springs kinda hard.

973
00:33:36,894 --> 00:33:38,255
We really need to be starting before that,

974
00:33:38,414 --> 00:33:39,694
but we gotta start somewhere in the year.

975
00:33:39,934 --> 00:33:41,855
So we've got Corn crop in.

976
00:33:42,667 --> 00:33:44,974
Corn crops harvested. Now we're thinking about planting

977
00:33:44,974 --> 00:33:46,485
something to follow that. And I think that's

978
00:33:46,485 --> 00:33:48,315
maybe a a missing link in a lot

979
00:33:48,315 --> 00:33:48,792
of cases,

980
00:33:49,444 --> 00:33:51,438
is we've taken the cash grain crop off.

981
00:33:51,597 --> 00:33:54,867
And now it's okay. Corn soybeans, Florida, that's

982
00:33:54,867 --> 00:33:57,202
our crop rotation, you know, rather than

983
00:33:57,659 --> 00:33:59,116
actually trying to do

984
00:33:59,429 --> 00:34:01,418
something that's gonna keep a living root in

985
00:34:01,418 --> 00:34:01,896
the soil,

986
00:34:02,771 --> 00:34:05,955
reduce our need for chemical and mechanical disturbances

987
00:34:05,955 --> 00:34:06,591
going forward,

988
00:34:07,164 --> 00:34:08,998
some of those things. So, Brian, anything to

989
00:34:08,998 --> 00:34:10,673
add there or anything else that you would

990
00:34:10,673 --> 00:34:12,848
wanna us talk about before we'd talk about

991
00:34:13,066 --> 00:34:15,539
what to follow the the corner beans with

992
00:34:15,539 --> 00:34:16,655
and and where to go from there?

993
00:34:17,469 --> 00:34:19,550
Yeah. I think Loop wrapped it up pretty

994
00:34:19,550 --> 00:34:21,710
good there. But, yeah, Spring is definitely when

995
00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:23,789
you need to be planning and thinking about

996
00:34:23,869 --> 00:34:25,161
Fall. If you're gonna be serious and it

997
00:34:25,161 --> 00:34:26,911
could be intentional about cover crop and you

998
00:34:26,911 --> 00:34:29,139
gotta be thinking ahead. Like you said, it's

999
00:34:29,139 --> 00:34:31,708
a thinking man's game and don't wait until

1000
00:34:32,336 --> 00:34:34,401
you know, October, order your cover crop seat

1001
00:34:34,401 --> 00:34:35,752
if you're planning to plan to cover crop

1002
00:34:35,752 --> 00:34:37,261
in October, You know, you need to be

1003
00:34:37,261 --> 00:34:39,009
planning this stuff up months in advance. It's

1004
00:34:39,009 --> 00:34:39,644
a system.

1005
00:34:40,454 --> 00:34:41,726
You know, you need to be given just

1006
00:34:41,726 --> 00:34:43,954
as much stock to that cover crop as

1007
00:34:43,954 --> 00:34:45,465
you are to your cash crops if you're

1008
00:34:45,465 --> 00:34:48,026
gonna be successful with them. So where do

1009
00:34:48,026 --> 00:34:50,571
we go from cover crop or from from

1010
00:34:50,571 --> 00:34:51,446
cash crop Harvest.

1011
00:34:52,401 --> 00:34:53,912
We've got that... We've got that...

1012
00:34:54,564 --> 00:34:56,318
Cover crop seed. As Brian just said, we've

1013
00:34:56,318 --> 00:34:58,233
got it already there. Ready to go. We've

1014
00:34:58,233 --> 00:35:00,387
had it... We've been had this plan in

1015
00:35:00,387 --> 00:35:00,626
place.

1016
00:35:01,583 --> 00:35:03,338
What are some of the things that help

1017
00:35:03,338 --> 00:35:06,227
frame in our our thinking there and the

1018
00:35:06,227 --> 00:35:06,946
the strategy?

1019
00:35:07,585 --> 00:35:08,065
Yeah. Linda that?

1020
00:35:09,103 --> 00:35:10,861
Decision is gonna come back to, you know,

1021
00:35:10,941 --> 00:35:12,474
what do you got for equipment? What do

1022
00:35:12,474 --> 00:35:14,471
you have for time and manpower? So are

1023
00:35:14,471 --> 00:35:16,868
you gonna drill that after harvest? Are you

1024
00:35:16,868 --> 00:35:18,626
gonna try to broadcast it and work it

1025
00:35:18,626 --> 00:35:18,865
in?

1026
00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:21,114
Are you gonna try to fly it on

1027
00:35:21,114 --> 00:35:21,753
before harvest.

1028
00:35:22,311 --> 00:35:24,624
Any of those can work work potentially, you

1029
00:35:24,624 --> 00:35:25,523
know, drilling

1030
00:35:26,139 --> 00:35:27,575
almost always is gonna get you the best

1031
00:35:27,575 --> 00:35:28,931
stand, but it is gonna go in later,

1032
00:35:29,090 --> 00:35:31,656
so gonna limit the species that you have

1033
00:35:31,656 --> 00:35:34,047
to choose from. So you really gotta think

1034
00:35:34,047 --> 00:35:35,641
about the calendar where you're gonna be at

1035
00:35:35,641 --> 00:35:37,449
when you see, and that's gonna inform that's

1036
00:35:37,728 --> 00:35:39,952
which species are gonna work for you and,

1037
00:35:40,032 --> 00:35:42,177
you know, how you're gonna manage that? Talk

1038
00:35:42,177 --> 00:35:44,322
to me a little bit about kinda the

1039
00:35:44,322 --> 00:35:46,882
the diversity of these cover crops and some

1040
00:35:46,882 --> 00:35:49,432
of the things that you're thinking about there

1041
00:35:49,432 --> 00:35:50,788
as far as strategy goes?

1042
00:35:51,425 --> 00:35:53,418
Yeah. As far as diversity, we'd like to

1043
00:35:53,418 --> 00:35:53,918
see

1044
00:35:54,549 --> 00:35:56,065
And we have, like, the rule of 3,

1045
00:35:56,224 --> 00:35:57,261
you know, 3 grasses,

1046
00:35:58,059 --> 00:36:00,713
3 legumes, 3 forbes. You know, that's a

1047
00:36:01,584 --> 00:36:03,095
that's a 9 way mix right there, which

1048
00:36:03,095 --> 00:36:04,766
is way more diverse than what most people

1049
00:36:04,766 --> 00:36:06,436
are gonna plan. So obviously, if you're gonna

1050
00:36:06,436 --> 00:36:08,480
do that, you need to be probably... That's

1051
00:36:08,679 --> 00:36:10,031
you know, if you're in the upper Midwest

1052
00:36:10,031 --> 00:36:12,417
here sometime in August or September to to

1053
00:36:12,417 --> 00:36:14,190
be successful with that. But

1054
00:36:14,724 --> 00:36:16,554
generally, the more diversity you can get out

1055
00:36:16,554 --> 00:36:16,633
there.

1056
00:36:17,443 --> 00:36:19,428
The better that cover crop can work. So

1057
00:36:19,428 --> 00:36:22,309
the grasses are great for breaking up surface

1058
00:36:22,364 --> 00:36:23,952
compact. They put out a lot of root

1059
00:36:23,952 --> 00:36:24,190
mass.

1060
00:36:25,078 --> 00:36:27,545
Great for protecting from erosion, so they definitely

1061
00:36:27,545 --> 00:36:29,057
have a benefit. But if we really wanna

1062
00:36:29,057 --> 00:36:30,410
drive aggregation deep,

1063
00:36:31,046 --> 00:36:32,375
we have to have that

1064
00:36:32,733 --> 00:36:35,124
diversity and the those crops out when that

1065
00:36:35,124 --> 00:36:37,935
synergistic effect happening underground. We need some forbes

1066
00:36:38,072 --> 00:36:39,666
in that mix. Some broad leaves.

1067
00:36:40,319 --> 00:36:42,227
To put down deep tap roots and work,

1068
00:36:42,545 --> 00:36:44,772
you know, synergistic with those grasses,

1069
00:36:45,488 --> 00:36:48,112
if we really wanna make some longer term

1070
00:36:48,112 --> 00:36:50,747
gains in soil health. So diversity is just

1071
00:36:50,747 --> 00:36:53,389
such a a critical piece that

1072
00:36:53,842 --> 00:36:56,222
I think is is kinda overlooked or not

1073
00:36:56,222 --> 00:36:57,040
not given

1074
00:36:57,748 --> 00:37:00,139
enough emphasis and are especially in our corn

1075
00:37:00,139 --> 00:37:02,369
bean systems where we just were lacking any

1076
00:37:02,369 --> 00:37:02,869
diversity

1077
00:37:03,326 --> 00:37:05,493
in the crash crop part of it. And,

1078
00:37:05,732 --> 00:37:06,790
again, diversity

1079
00:37:07,167 --> 00:37:08,522
comes up in all 3 of the 6

1080
00:37:08,522 --> 00:37:10,116
the 3 and the 4. Right? And so

1081
00:37:10,116 --> 00:37:10,594
we need to...

1082
00:37:12,109 --> 00:37:12,746
We can't really...

1083
00:37:13,717 --> 00:37:15,886
Hammer that point hard enough that it is,

1084
00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:18,088
in the integral part of this. And and

1085
00:37:18,088 --> 00:37:19,701
when you go out into those

1086
00:37:20,393 --> 00:37:22,954
perennial poly cultures in a, in a range

1087
00:37:22,954 --> 00:37:23,275
setting.

1088
00:37:23,835 --> 00:37:25,594
That's what you're gonna see is diversity, you

1089
00:37:25,594 --> 00:37:27,994
know, and in healthy ones. Right? In in

1090
00:37:27,994 --> 00:37:30,249
less healthy ones less diversity, but you're gonna

1091
00:37:30,249 --> 00:37:32,907
find diversity in those, and that's really what

1092
00:37:33,206 --> 00:37:35,763
we're doing with these cover crops is trying

1093
00:37:35,763 --> 00:37:38,101
to mimic nature, trying to

1094
00:37:39,214 --> 00:37:41,851
get those things out there, get the diversity

1095
00:37:41,851 --> 00:37:43,151
out there that

1096
00:37:43,690 --> 00:37:45,947
attracts the diversity of soil biology

1097
00:37:46,566 --> 00:37:48,659
and all of those things. So I think

1098
00:37:48,659 --> 00:37:51,376
that's an important piece to to not overlook

1099
00:37:51,376 --> 00:37:53,634
for sure. But, is just to say each

1100
00:37:53,693 --> 00:37:56,250
plant has a a slightly different microbiome that's

1101
00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:58,497
associated with it. They're they're all feeding different

1102
00:37:58,497 --> 00:38:00,010
critters in the soil. And if we if

1103
00:38:00,010 --> 00:38:01,601
we wanna get at nutrient cycling,

1104
00:38:02,238 --> 00:38:03,432
which is usually 1 of the goals in

1105
00:38:03,432 --> 00:38:05,104
our crop systems. So we want that cover

1106
00:38:05,104 --> 00:38:06,909
crop to do something for us. You know

1107
00:38:07,108 --> 00:38:09,096
we wanted to make nutrients available. We wanted

1108
00:38:09,096 --> 00:38:10,130
to fix some nitrogen.

1109
00:38:10,607 --> 00:38:11,958
And if you don't have diversity out there,

1110
00:38:12,197 --> 00:38:14,026
that is just not gonna happen. You gotta

1111
00:38:14,026 --> 00:38:14,264
have...

1112
00:38:15,393 --> 00:38:17,302
Multiple species out there that are gonna get

1113
00:38:17,302 --> 00:38:18,359
your pho sol

1114
00:38:18,735 --> 00:38:19,712
bacteria. You're

1115
00:38:20,167 --> 00:38:22,315
free living nitrogen mixer, all of those things,

1116
00:38:22,650 --> 00:38:24,409
you know, that we need the aggregation, but

1117
00:38:24,409 --> 00:38:26,329
we also need the diverse route system to

1118
00:38:26,329 --> 00:38:27,050
go with that.

1119
00:38:27,690 --> 00:38:29,369
If you wanna have good nutrient cycling,

1120
00:38:29,864 --> 00:38:31,539
I would even echo that Brian. Even started

1121
00:38:31,539 --> 00:38:32,895
out. You know, we used to, you know,

1122
00:38:33,054 --> 00:38:34,650
tread lightly. And we we try to work

1123
00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:36,723
within the the clients context as far as

1124
00:38:36,723 --> 00:38:38,239
what their comp the level is I'm working

1125
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:39,536
with these cover crops, but

1126
00:38:39,929 --> 00:38:41,447
I think they're gonna be much happier even

1127
00:38:41,447 --> 00:38:42,646
if they just go with 3

1128
00:38:43,525 --> 00:38:44,963
3 cereals to start up, but instead of

1129
00:38:44,963 --> 00:38:47,121
just ride, plant 3 serious. At least get

1130
00:38:47,121 --> 00:38:48,414
something out of there with the brass, you

1131
00:38:48,414 --> 00:38:49,695
know, something. And then then if you get

1132
00:38:49,695 --> 00:38:51,054
comfortable there, you can start to add in

1133
00:38:51,054 --> 00:38:53,375
more. But for me, I'm I'm going crazy

1134
00:38:53,375 --> 00:38:55,855
enough that I want as much flowering species

1135
00:38:55,855 --> 00:38:57,787
too. So I'm I'm looking at flower shops.

1136
00:38:57,947 --> 00:38:59,564
Anything I can throw with for my summer

1137
00:38:59,623 --> 00:39:00,900
mixes is which we'll touch on that, vi.

1138
00:39:01,139 --> 00:39:02,816
Anything gets something flower out there. I don't

1139
00:39:02,816 --> 00:39:04,572
care. I I just want something that's gonna

1140
00:39:04,572 --> 00:39:05,290
increase diversity.

1141
00:39:05,943 --> 00:39:07,619
For my insects as well because for me

1142
00:39:07,619 --> 00:39:09,692
to have this whole system cycling and function

1143
00:39:09,692 --> 00:39:11,846
properly, I need to... I the predators above

1144
00:39:11,846 --> 00:39:12,563
ground as well.

1145
00:39:13,441 --> 00:39:14,478
But that's why I'm looking at.

1146
00:39:15,849 --> 00:39:17,527
You know, and they've they've got species,

1147
00:39:18,326 --> 00:39:20,563
like annual Rye grass, not cereal rye, but

1148
00:39:20,563 --> 00:39:22,960
the the the really small seated annual Rye

1149
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,806
grass very... Very good cover crop, but the

1150
00:39:24,806 --> 00:39:26,418
management level is not something

1151
00:39:27,268 --> 00:39:29,175
to shy away from on that. So it's

1152
00:39:29,175 --> 00:39:31,259
not for any early beginner. A I would

1153
00:39:31,259 --> 00:39:32,777
say start with your small grains to start

1154
00:39:32,777 --> 00:39:34,375
off with for theirs... For sure. But it's

1155
00:39:34,375 --> 00:39:36,053
it's got a lot of great compounds to

1156
00:39:36,053 --> 00:39:38,450
it, breaking up hard pans and and

1157
00:39:39,184 --> 00:39:40,703
you know, it it's just got an incredible

1158
00:39:40,703 --> 00:39:42,380
root growth, but that's that's where I would

1159
00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:44,139
not start with something like that in the

1160
00:39:44,139 --> 00:39:44,298
mix.

1161
00:39:45,018 --> 00:39:46,855
Yes. As as far as cover crops throughout

1162
00:39:46,855 --> 00:39:49,904
the year. You know, kinda getting getting things

1163
00:39:49,904 --> 00:39:52,458
harvested off in the fall, planting this cover

1164
00:39:52,458 --> 00:39:52,958
crop

1165
00:39:53,576 --> 00:39:54,076
for

1166
00:39:54,853 --> 00:39:56,151
you know, for the,

1167
00:39:56,545 --> 00:39:57,025
through the winter.

1168
00:39:57,744 --> 00:39:59,105
What are we what are we thinking about?

1169
00:39:59,264 --> 00:40:01,425
Come come the spring, kinda bringing that full

1170
00:40:01,425 --> 00:40:03,344
circle that conversation full circle? What are we

1171
00:40:03,344 --> 00:40:05,585
thinking about for the spring and and some

1172
00:40:05,585 --> 00:40:08,071
of the strategy there. Yeah. So for the

1173
00:40:08,071 --> 00:40:09,903
spring, you better understand what what tools you

1174
00:40:09,903 --> 00:40:11,656
have at hand to manage that cover crop

1175
00:40:11,656 --> 00:40:13,503
prior to planning the cash crop, you know,

1176
00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:15,646
whether you're gonna plan on herbicide, whether you're,

1177
00:40:15,805 --> 00:40:18,583
you know, organically after we're relate to till

1178
00:40:18,583 --> 00:40:19,933
to make that happen is it a roller

1179
00:40:19,933 --> 00:40:20,251
crimp,

1180
00:40:21,298 --> 00:40:23,207
mowing grazing what what options are you gonna

1181
00:40:23,207 --> 00:40:24,878
use to manage that cover crop.

1182
00:40:25,753 --> 00:40:26,945
You need to be thinking that ahead of

1183
00:40:26,945 --> 00:40:28,788
time. And you need to have some backup

1184
00:40:28,788 --> 00:40:30,769
plans if something goes wrong. If it gets

1185
00:40:30,769 --> 00:40:32,751
wet or if it gets dry, need to

1186
00:40:32,751 --> 00:40:34,892
have some multiple strategies laid out for for

1187
00:40:34,892 --> 00:40:35,130
that,

1188
00:40:35,938 --> 00:40:37,447
We've seen that a lot here this year.

1189
00:40:39,114 --> 00:40:41,179
Guys were probably pretty quick to pull the

1190
00:40:41,179 --> 00:40:43,561
trigger on everything, killing cover crops off, and

1191
00:40:43,561 --> 00:40:44,673
then we hit a little west spell there,

1192
00:40:44,831 --> 00:40:46,838
and Think that it kinda sets some folks

1193
00:40:46,838 --> 00:40:48,113
back in the cover crop world,

1194
00:40:49,150 --> 00:40:50,584
because that ground just didn't dry out very

1195
00:40:50,584 --> 00:40:51,939
fast. But if we had a living roof

1196
00:40:51,939 --> 00:40:54,027
there, we're able to kinda help regulate that

1197
00:40:54,027 --> 00:40:55,564
moisture in the soil. So,

1198
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:58,175
I guess my point there is don't treat

1199
00:40:58,175 --> 00:40:59,690
every acre the same. If you are gonna

1200
00:40:59,690 --> 00:41:02,162
terminate some terminate? Yeah. Maybe maybe terminate some

1201
00:41:02,162 --> 00:41:03,849
of your dry ground. But if you got

1202
00:41:03,849 --> 00:41:06,229
some lower wet lower wet laying ground, maybe

1203
00:41:06,229 --> 00:41:08,054
give it a chance to to stay there

1204
00:41:08,054 --> 00:41:08,927
and do the job for you.

1205
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:11,069
So make sure you know what tools you

1206
00:41:11,069 --> 00:41:11,386
have,

1207
00:41:12,038 --> 00:41:14,188
work with somebody understand what what access they

1208
00:41:14,188 --> 00:41:15,621
have to tools as well. Don't just go

1209
00:41:15,621 --> 00:41:16,258
buy equipment,

1210
00:41:17,612 --> 00:41:19,284
just to think you're gonna do it and

1211
00:41:19,284 --> 00:41:19,682
jump in,

1212
00:41:20,493 --> 00:41:22,004
work with it before you buy and make

1213
00:41:22,004 --> 00:41:22,878
the investment on that.

1214
00:41:24,071 --> 00:41:26,218
But also, if you want some some accumulation

1215
00:41:26,218 --> 00:41:27,434
to build some real biomass,

1216
00:41:28,857 --> 00:41:30,527
myself this year, I had almost 5 ton

1217
00:41:30,527 --> 00:41:32,515
biomass that I know till corn to. I

1218
00:41:32,515 --> 00:41:34,423
was patient, which I had to be patient

1219
00:41:34,423 --> 00:41:36,570
because I was overseas and my wife was...

1220
00:41:36,904 --> 00:41:38,256
Soon to be delivering child than before, So

1221
00:41:38,335 --> 00:41:39,847
I had nothing no other choice but to

1222
00:41:39,847 --> 00:41:41,040
sit on my hands. And

1223
00:41:41,677 --> 00:41:43,347
I'm glad I did. It was definitely a...

1224
00:41:44,316 --> 00:41:45,905
I'll never say failure. It's... It was a

1225
00:41:45,905 --> 00:41:47,890
learning year for sure. Every years a learning

1226
00:41:47,890 --> 00:41:49,638
year because I want those to help me

1227
00:41:49,638 --> 00:41:51,227
be a better manager of those cover crops.

1228
00:41:51,783 --> 00:41:53,474
So some might say that I failed

1229
00:41:55,059 --> 00:41:56,971
but I learned something too. You know? So

1230
00:41:56,971 --> 00:41:58,086
that... That's how I look at it. Don't

1231
00:41:58,086 --> 00:41:59,360
be don't be afraid of that. I think,

1232
00:42:00,476 --> 00:42:02,387
especially in the Row crop world, everybody hates

1233
00:42:02,387 --> 00:42:04,239
to have something potentially look bad. I mean,

1234
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,760
it is such an aesthetic game.

1235
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,480
You wanna see this lush green just pretty

1236
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,280
no, you know, no. We've clean mode roadside.

1237
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,210
That's that's the... That's a picture picturesque row

1238
00:42:13,210 --> 00:42:13,688
crop world.

1239
00:42:14,566 --> 00:42:15,523
I think we need to get away from

1240
00:42:15,523 --> 00:42:17,358
that. That's just so boring. May, I mean,

1241
00:42:18,554 --> 00:42:20,867
I've seen more things happen to the positive

1242
00:42:20,867 --> 00:42:23,839
as far as biodiversity by delay moe until

1243
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:25,760
after August first. And that's just so I

1244
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,039
can get some stuff knocked back to make

1245
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:29,440
Harvest a little leisure. We've gotta change the

1246
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,450
attitude there as far as what pretty is.

1247
00:42:31,929 --> 00:42:33,364
And a lot of people think that corn

1248
00:42:33,364 --> 00:42:34,960
look just phenomenal coming out of the ground.

1249
00:42:35,996 --> 00:42:37,751
Some of mine look pretty spin pretty tough

1250
00:42:37,751 --> 00:42:39,347
coming through some of that cover crop. But

1251
00:42:39,347 --> 00:42:39,745
right now,

1252
00:42:40,478 --> 00:42:42,155
other than being a couple leaf stages behind

1253
00:42:42,155 --> 00:42:42,793
and ta.

1254
00:42:43,831 --> 00:42:45,507
Color looks just as good if anybody else's

1255
00:42:45,507 --> 00:42:47,183
with only 70 pounds of nitrogen are applied

1256
00:42:47,183 --> 00:42:48,162
on. So

1257
00:42:49,113 --> 00:42:50,866
it all depends on what somebody's willing to

1258
00:42:50,866 --> 00:42:52,460
to take a gamble on and and play

1259
00:42:52,460 --> 00:42:52,619
with,

1260
00:42:54,371 --> 00:42:55,646
but you need to understand that if you

1261
00:42:55,646 --> 00:42:57,239
wanna manage is if you wanna cover terminate

1262
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:58,195
that cover crop sooner,

1263
00:42:58,768 --> 00:42:59,964
probably have to do it with a with

1264
00:42:59,964 --> 00:43:02,196
a herbicide or so than likely. That hurts

1265
00:43:02,196 --> 00:43:03,972
that cover crop is gonna break down

1266
00:43:04,348 --> 00:43:06,421
sooner due its lower seat end ratio.

1267
00:43:07,711 --> 00:43:09,224
For me, I I like to see that

1268
00:43:09,224 --> 00:43:11,455
cover crop in that 20 to 24 to

1269
00:43:11,455 --> 00:43:13,606
1 seat in ratio of a good balance

1270
00:43:13,606 --> 00:43:15,779
mix. Because that's gonna be my slow release

1271
00:43:15,779 --> 00:43:17,380
fertility throughout the growing season, and that's what

1272
00:43:17,539 --> 00:43:18,980
I want. Plus it's gonna build the armor

1273
00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:21,059
on the soil. Not only to help maintain

1274
00:43:21,059 --> 00:43:23,059
moisture but to protect that soil from erosion,

1275
00:43:23,871 --> 00:43:25,718
but they'll build a habitat for the biodiversity

1276
00:43:25,853 --> 00:43:27,121
that I want to come in there, and

1277
00:43:27,121 --> 00:43:29,579
it just, you know, starts to compound from

1278
00:43:29,579 --> 00:43:30,768
there protect from the sunlight,

1279
00:43:32,053 --> 00:43:33,800
all the good things like that. So that's

1280
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:34,833
that's my approach on that.

1281
00:43:35,627 --> 00:43:38,407
That's a carbon to nitrogen ratio, the c

1282
00:43:38,407 --> 00:43:40,764
to n ratio. Seated. Right. That's correct. And

1283
00:43:40,964 --> 00:43:43,202
your preference just happens to be the ideal

1284
00:43:43,202 --> 00:43:44,960
for biology. Right? 24 to 1.

1285
00:43:45,919 --> 00:43:47,358
Yeah. I'm not that smart. I go by

1286
00:43:47,358 --> 00:43:47,757
the charts.

1287
00:43:50,647 --> 00:43:52,477
We talk a lot about carbon to nitrogen

1288
00:43:52,477 --> 00:43:54,228
generation, and that's something really important for people

1289
00:43:54,228 --> 00:43:55,740
to understand where that's at.

1290
00:43:56,456 --> 00:43:58,445
So if you're gonna grow corn, for example,

1291
00:43:58,605 --> 00:44:00,289
and you've got a grasp. Cover crop ahead

1292
00:44:00,289 --> 00:44:02,432
of that. So you've got a grass going

1293
00:44:02,432 --> 00:44:02,987
into a grass.

1294
00:44:03,860 --> 00:44:05,130
To be on the safe side, you're probably

1295
00:44:05,130 --> 00:44:06,797
gonna wanna terminate that a little bit sooner

1296
00:44:06,797 --> 00:44:08,012
and have a little bit lower

1297
00:44:08,385 --> 00:44:10,951
cover ratio there on the carpenter nitrogen or

1298
00:44:10,951 --> 00:44:13,603
change your nitrogen management so that you've got

1299
00:44:13,981 --> 00:44:15,894
enough nitrogen or early season to break that

1300
00:44:15,894 --> 00:44:18,380
cover crop down whereas say going to soybeans.

1301
00:44:19,096 --> 00:44:20,530
A little bit safer bet to let that,

1302
00:44:20,689 --> 00:44:22,441
go ahead and grow. You know, you can

1303
00:44:22,441 --> 00:44:24,831
get up 35, 40 to 1 carbon and

1304
00:44:24,831 --> 00:44:25,627
nitrogen on that,

1305
00:44:26,518 --> 00:44:28,114
And that can actually be a good strategy.

1306
00:44:28,273 --> 00:44:30,427
So again, what's your goal? Do you want

1307
00:44:30,427 --> 00:44:32,740
surface armor, If you terminated it earlier, you're

1308
00:44:32,740 --> 00:44:34,574
not gonna have surface armor, it's gonna melt

1309
00:44:34,574 --> 00:44:36,031
way pretty fast whereas

1310
00:44:36,744 --> 00:44:38,125
if you're gonna maybe you're gonna

1311
00:44:38,505 --> 00:44:40,605
plant soybeans green and rye

1312
00:44:40,905 --> 00:44:42,585
and let it go and roll it down

1313
00:44:42,585 --> 00:44:44,605
later, you know, that that's a great strategy

1314
00:44:44,744 --> 00:44:47,383
for build an armor, and especially for weed

1315
00:44:47,383 --> 00:44:47,621
control,

1316
00:44:48,335 --> 00:44:51,829
seen some pretty fantastic results holding back water

1317
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:53,893
hemp and palmer and things like that,

1318
00:44:54,702 --> 00:44:56,765
eliminate the spray pass with that kind of

1319
00:44:56,765 --> 00:44:59,225
a strategy. So you just gotta ask yourself

1320
00:44:59,225 --> 00:45:00,891
what is that you're trying to accomplish in

1321
00:45:00,891 --> 00:45:02,320
the spring with that cover crop,

1322
00:45:03,287 --> 00:45:03,763
I've heard,

1323
00:45:04,476 --> 00:45:07,409
I'm I'm row crop illiterate, So, just throw

1324
00:45:07,409 --> 00:45:08,995
that out there. But I... I've heard that

1325
00:45:08,995 --> 00:45:10,184
it's, like, 1,

1326
00:45:10,994 --> 00:45:13,307
pound of nitrogen per bush of yield. Is

1327
00:45:13,307 --> 00:45:16,259
that kinda average? Right? Per corn 1 to

1328
00:45:16,259 --> 00:45:18,748
1.2 is what pretty much... Standard people are

1329
00:45:18,748 --> 00:45:20,267
doing, but there's some folks moving that need

1330
00:45:20,267 --> 00:45:22,025
a lower. Yeah. Right. But, I mean, you

1331
00:45:22,025 --> 00:45:24,182
said 70 pounds, so I'm assuming you're planning

1332
00:45:24,182 --> 00:45:25,941
to yield more than 70 pounds through the

1333
00:45:25,941 --> 00:45:26,660
acres. Is that right?

1334
00:45:27,795 --> 00:45:29,094
Yeah. I'll have the.

1335
00:45:29,635 --> 00:45:32,835
I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's all

1336
00:45:32,835 --> 00:45:35,954
sure. That just think about the reduced need

1337
00:45:35,954 --> 00:45:36,594
for nitrogen.

1338
00:45:37,089 --> 00:45:38,769
When you've got that carpet on the ground

1339
00:45:38,769 --> 00:45:41,489
already and that nitrogen, you've got, you know,

1340
00:45:41,969 --> 00:45:43,809
like it said, the free living organisms that

1341
00:45:43,809 --> 00:45:45,409
can fix nitrogen for you and some of

1342
00:45:45,409 --> 00:45:46,862
the other things going there. I don't I

1343
00:45:46,862 --> 00:45:48,219
don't know all of what's going on there,

1344
00:45:48,378 --> 00:45:51,329
but, some of those things are helping and

1345
00:45:51,648 --> 00:45:54,381
always good to be able to reduce that

1346
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,636
that cost for 1.

1347
00:45:56,289 --> 00:45:58,835
And then also, I've heard again, things that

1348
00:45:58,994 --> 00:46:01,541
I've heard secondhand, things I haven't experienced myself

1349
00:46:01,541 --> 00:46:03,928
necessarily. But when you do apply nitrogen a

1350
00:46:03,928 --> 00:46:05,280
lot of times you end up shooting yourself.

1351
00:46:05,534 --> 00:46:07,689
The foot because the biology eats the carbon

1352
00:46:07,689 --> 00:46:09,764
and then you're left with no ground cover.

1353
00:46:10,243 --> 00:46:11,301
Is that kinda

1354
00:46:11,679 --> 00:46:13,409
go into some what you're thinking there? The

1355
00:46:13,528 --> 00:46:15,277
Yeah. It all works together, You know, it's...

1356
00:46:15,595 --> 00:46:17,821
The system is not. It's not easy.

1357
00:46:18,456 --> 00:46:20,682
If you step back without with your hands

1358
00:46:20,682 --> 00:46:22,033
involved with it, it sounds fairly simple.

1359
00:46:22,844 --> 00:46:24,517
Plant Seed, harvest seed, you know, or... But

1360
00:46:24,517 --> 00:46:26,509
there's a lot that goes in between here

1361
00:46:26,509 --> 00:46:26,908
and there.

1362
00:46:28,023 --> 00:46:30,588
Your management level definitely increases with with cover

1363
00:46:30,588 --> 00:46:32,182
crops as Brian. He he pointed out a

1364
00:46:32,182 --> 00:46:33,001
lot of great

1365
00:46:34,255 --> 00:46:36,646
things like you know, water hand palmer palmer

1366
00:46:36,646 --> 00:46:38,809
hammer and reduction with the rye. But you

1367
00:46:38,809 --> 00:46:40,552
still have to be... You still have to

1368
00:46:40,552 --> 00:46:41,979
understand the system that you're in. What's the

1369
00:46:41,979 --> 00:46:43,643
what are the climate conditions? Because just as

1370
00:46:43,643 --> 00:46:44,672
good as it can be it can be

1371
00:46:44,672 --> 00:46:45,148
equally bad.

1372
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,559
I've seen some train reps where guys didn't

1373
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:49,159
terminate early or they let it go too

1374
00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:50,760
long, and then they they didn't use the

1375
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,760
proper equipment to get the, you know, get

1376
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,679
this stuff established, and I've seen it go

1377
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:57,408
backwards. But I'm tired of people saying the

1378
00:46:57,408 --> 00:46:58,923
cover crop did this or the cover crop

1379
00:46:58,923 --> 00:47:00,996
failed me. No. Better yet you failed your

1380
00:47:00,996 --> 00:47:02,990
cover crop. You didn't understand how to properly

1381
00:47:02,990 --> 00:47:04,425
manage that. So I I just wanna...

1382
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,760
Full stop that right there. I mean, that's,

1383
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,480
I get frustrated seeing that, because everybody's trying

1384
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,800
to put down cover crops for the negative.

1385
00:47:12,119 --> 00:47:12,679
But really,

1386
00:47:13,814 --> 00:47:15,093
as Gabe says, if you don't like what

1387
00:47:15,093 --> 00:47:16,611
you see, go home, look yourself, look at

1388
00:47:16,611 --> 00:47:17,890
the mirror and the answer is right there.

1389
00:47:18,050 --> 00:47:20,128
Looking back at it. Simply put... I mean,

1390
00:47:20,847 --> 00:47:21,806
I couldn't agree more.

1391
00:47:23,019 --> 00:47:24,297
I guess, go back to... What was your

1392
00:47:24,297 --> 00:47:25,975
question again on that? I got sidetracked track

1393
00:47:25,975 --> 00:47:26,614
there. I'm sorry.

1394
00:47:27,253 --> 00:47:28,851
No. That's alright. And I was just talking

1395
00:47:28,851 --> 00:47:29,011
about...

1396
00:47:30,303 --> 00:47:32,684
Kinda the fact that we were managing this

1397
00:47:32,684 --> 00:47:36,097
carbon nitrogen ratio and sometimes nitrogen. Yeah. Exacerbate

1398
00:47:36,097 --> 00:47:36,652
the problem,

1399
00:47:37,780 --> 00:47:39,859
Yes. On the lack of carbon on the

1400
00:47:39,859 --> 00:47:40,819
on the soil surface.

1401
00:47:41,619 --> 00:47:42,440
Yeah. And

1402
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:44,980
I'll I'll quote Brian doh here since he's

1403
00:47:44,980 --> 00:47:46,500
on the call whether... It's kind of the...

1404
00:47:46,739 --> 00:47:48,434
If you... You apply more you need more.

1405
00:47:48,675 --> 00:47:49,875
You know, he said that a lot in

1406
00:47:49,875 --> 00:47:51,474
some presentations I couldn't agree more.

1407
00:47:52,434 --> 00:47:54,195
With that. We're get in this system where

1408
00:47:54,195 --> 00:47:55,555
we think we're gonna solve this. We gotta

1409
00:47:55,555 --> 00:47:56,768
have it looking pretty. We gotta apply this,

1410
00:47:56,928 --> 00:47:58,284
but now we need to apply more. Well,

1411
00:47:58,443 --> 00:48:00,835
we've we've loaded this plant with extra nitrates.

1412
00:48:01,393 --> 00:48:03,329
When now it's gonna be probably more susceptible

1413
00:48:03,387 --> 00:48:05,221
disease. So now we're gonna need more fungi

1414
00:48:05,221 --> 00:48:05,755
side by,

1415
00:48:06,745 --> 00:48:08,726
you know, this is just... The whole hamster

1416
00:48:08,726 --> 00:48:10,310
wheel just keeps spinning in our in our

1417
00:48:10,310 --> 00:48:12,053
row crop world, and it's it's frustrating to

1418
00:48:12,053 --> 00:48:12,212
see,

1419
00:48:13,259 --> 00:48:14,557
I've spent many years

1420
00:48:15,493 --> 00:48:15,972
playing in it,

1421
00:48:17,647 --> 00:48:19,961
keeping it going along as it is today,

1422
00:48:21,249 --> 00:48:22,919
but you hit a wall at some point

1423
00:48:22,919 --> 00:48:24,907
and think that this game is is not

1424
00:48:24,907 --> 00:48:25,066
a...

1425
00:48:25,940 --> 00:48:27,213
You're not going to the poker table to

1426
00:48:27,213 --> 00:48:28,803
win. I'll, guarantee that is. So that the

1427
00:48:28,803 --> 00:48:30,409
guy being on the car The guy taking

1428
00:48:30,409 --> 00:48:32,004
the money is you pretty doing this casino.

1429
00:48:32,323 --> 00:48:33,360
They're the ones making the money.

1430
00:48:34,396 --> 00:48:35,912
So it gets frustrating the see. It's I

1431
00:48:35,912 --> 00:48:36,651
hate seeing

1432
00:48:37,028 --> 00:48:39,661
the current mental state in agriculture right now.

1433
00:48:40,553 --> 00:48:42,704
You know, we're seeing core prices drop below

1434
00:48:42,704 --> 00:48:43,262
4 dollars,

1435
00:48:44,139 --> 00:48:45,494
pretty soon. They're not there yet, but if

1436
00:48:45,574 --> 00:48:47,088
Some sort of local deliveries below for,

1437
00:48:48,378 --> 00:48:50,054
that's making some guys that have already put

1438
00:48:50,054 --> 00:48:52,369
the money in the on the poker table

1439
00:48:52,369 --> 00:48:54,844
starting last fall for 5 to almost 7

1440
00:48:54,844 --> 00:48:55,961
dollar core at some points.

1441
00:48:56,694 --> 00:48:59,004
To really gamble harvest pressures push against us

1442
00:48:59,004 --> 00:49:00,915
now. So how can we work more with

1443
00:49:00,915 --> 00:49:01,813
this biologically,

1444
00:49:02,508 --> 00:49:03,862
get that cover crop out there. Yeah. It

1445
00:49:03,862 --> 00:49:05,136
cost money, but it can also make you

1446
00:49:05,136 --> 00:49:06,818
money if you manage it properly,

1447
00:49:07,929 --> 00:49:08,746
reducing those

1448
00:49:09,198 --> 00:49:11,101
those inputs, utilizing them what that plan is

1449
00:49:11,101 --> 00:49:13,005
taken up and understanding that we... We're probably...

1450
00:49:14,054 --> 00:49:15,652
Not being very good stewards of the nutrients

1451
00:49:15,652 --> 00:49:17,730
that we are buying. It's not just, you

1452
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:19,668
know, we've talked about before It's not just

1453
00:49:19,727 --> 00:49:21,325
switching to no sales. It's not just planning

1454
00:49:21,325 --> 00:49:22,851
cover costs It's not just the 4 or

1455
00:49:22,851 --> 00:49:25,950
trans program. It's all them combined. That's gonna

1456
00:49:25,950 --> 00:49:26,983
make this system work.

1457
00:49:28,096 --> 00:49:30,454
So we can't cherry pick and expect. It's

1458
00:49:30,970 --> 00:49:32,793
everything to work perfectly. It's not going.

1459
00:49:34,061 --> 00:49:35,091
Mother nature

1460
00:49:35,804 --> 00:49:37,548
does not ever work like we expect to.

1461
00:49:38,118 --> 00:49:39,867
She's always bat last. She's bat a thousand.

1462
00:49:40,105 --> 00:49:41,377
She's never lost a game in alive.

1463
00:49:42,251 --> 00:49:44,318
But how well we work within her context

1464
00:49:44,318 --> 00:49:45,907
as much as possible. We'll set us up

1465
00:49:45,907 --> 00:49:46,702
for the best potential.

1466
00:49:47,592 --> 00:49:50,215
Success. So, you know, I'm, you know, ahead

1467
00:49:50,215 --> 00:49:52,045
of my corn crop. I'm definitely bouncing out

1468
00:49:52,045 --> 00:49:52,998
that seed in ratio.

1469
00:49:53,873 --> 00:49:55,718
I'm applying a little bit of nitrogen planning

1470
00:49:55,718 --> 00:49:57,153
time. And if it looks like I've got

1471
00:49:57,153 --> 00:49:58,907
enough accumulated to doing that cover crop through

1472
00:49:58,907 --> 00:50:01,777
some biomass testing, shipping those off, pulling some

1473
00:50:01,777 --> 00:50:03,531
hades to go along with that in P

1474
00:50:03,531 --> 00:50:05,374
phase, then I can start to play the

1475
00:50:05,374 --> 00:50:06,803
game of how much can I cut back

1476
00:50:06,803 --> 00:50:08,787
here? How low can I go? And

1477
00:50:09,501 --> 00:50:11,009
you know, it's as of right now,

1478
00:50:12,139 --> 00:50:13,657
70 pounds with what I've got I'm wanna

1479
00:50:13,657 --> 00:50:14,936
cover crop is is gonna take me through

1480
00:50:14,936 --> 00:50:17,732
the harvest. Well and Find yourself on that

1481
00:50:17,732 --> 00:50:19,730
hamster wheel of just adding a little bit

1482
00:50:19,730 --> 00:50:21,251
more. All the time, I think money buttons

1483
00:50:21,251 --> 00:50:22,440
would say that makes you a more on.

1484
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:23,629
You just gotta go out there and put

1485
00:50:23,629 --> 00:50:25,531
a little more on. And Yeah.

1486
00:50:26,561 --> 00:50:27,329
And so all

1487
00:50:28,085 --> 00:50:30,154
if we haven't offended everybody, we'll we'll turn

1488
00:50:30,154 --> 00:50:32,541
to talking about cows here after, let Brian

1489
00:50:32,541 --> 00:50:33,655
say what he had to say.

1490
00:50:34,863 --> 00:50:37,036
I was just gonna say, 1 tool we

1491
00:50:37,094 --> 00:50:39,984
haven't touched on yet is biomass sampling. So

1492
00:50:40,281 --> 00:50:41,476
it's nice to know what you have out

1493
00:50:41,476 --> 00:50:42,989
there. A lot of people don't wanna mess

1494
00:50:42,989 --> 00:50:43,967
with it, But

1495
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,360
right before you terminate that cover crop, just

1496
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,840
go out, measure out an area. So, you

1497
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,460
know, how much you're collecting and

1498
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,119
cut it off at the ground and send

1499
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:54,439
it in, vlad. Just have a biomass analysis

1500
00:50:54,439 --> 00:50:57,218
done. How many pounds you'd you'd be amazed

1501
00:50:57,218 --> 00:50:59,680
sometimes and how many pounds of nitrogen and

1502
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,838
pho and potassium and micron nutrients said that

1503
00:51:01,838 --> 00:51:03,133
are actually pulled up

1504
00:51:03,587 --> 00:51:05,176
by that cover crop. To me,

1505
00:51:05,971 --> 00:51:08,355
that's your fertilizer truck. So do you wanna

1506
00:51:08,355 --> 00:51:10,286
pay the c to come out and spread

1507
00:51:10,580 --> 00:51:12,507
that hundred and 50 pounds of pot ash

1508
00:51:12,507 --> 00:51:14,600
when you got 400 pounds of it

1509
00:51:15,056 --> 00:51:16,490
stand there in your cover crop. I mean,

1510
00:51:16,650 --> 00:51:18,960
that's your surface fertility application as that breaks

1511
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:19,858
down. So

1512
00:51:20,328 --> 00:51:21,518
It's just a different mindset.

1513
00:51:21,994 --> 00:51:23,423
And if you don't run that test, you're

1514
00:51:23,423 --> 00:51:24,773
never gonna know what you have out there.

1515
00:51:25,408 --> 00:51:27,233
Now, are you gonna get all those nutrients

1516
00:51:27,233 --> 00:51:29,393
back right away that first year no. You

1517
00:51:29,393 --> 00:51:31,547
might not get any of that nitrogen depending

1518
00:51:31,547 --> 00:51:34,121
on, again, how high your carbon to nitrogen

1519
00:51:34,259 --> 00:51:34,418
ratio?

1520
00:51:35,216 --> 00:51:37,050
What's the temperature? How much moisture do to

1521
00:51:37,050 --> 00:51:38,805
have. All these things play a role. So

1522
00:51:38,805 --> 00:51:40,594
it's it's difficult to predict

1523
00:51:41,286 --> 00:51:42,878
exactly what you're gonna get when, but it's

1524
00:51:42,878 --> 00:51:45,264
a very important piece of the puzzle, and

1525
00:51:45,264 --> 00:51:47,268
it's it's or if you at least do

1526
00:51:47,268 --> 00:51:48,962
it once if you've never taken a biomass

1527
00:51:49,019 --> 00:51:51,010
sample just to see what that cover crops

1528
00:51:51,010 --> 00:51:53,398
doing. So, yeah, this is the working cow

1529
00:51:53,398 --> 00:51:55,959
podcast. After all, I'd like to turn to

1530
00:51:55,959 --> 00:51:58,902
talking about livestock integration a little bit, grazing

1531
00:51:58,902 --> 00:52:01,130
cover crops, and and how they fit into

1532
00:52:01,130 --> 00:52:03,094
this system that we've been talking about after

1533
00:52:03,531 --> 00:52:05,594
we've been talking about a cash grain system

1534
00:52:05,594 --> 00:52:08,292
mostly, where we've... We're using cover crops as

1535
00:52:08,292 --> 00:52:09,958
a bridge from 1...

1536
00:52:10,609 --> 00:52:12,445
1 crop to the next and and some

1537
00:52:12,445 --> 00:52:13,004
of those things,

1538
00:52:13,961 --> 00:52:17,793
where do livestock fit into this system that

1539
00:52:17,793 --> 00:52:18,591
we've been describing?

1540
00:52:19,484 --> 00:52:21,000
And to me, it's it's a no brainer,

1541
00:52:22,516 --> 00:52:24,272
but I also wanna step back and say,

1542
00:52:25,230 --> 00:52:26,826
the soul first, the livestock sucking in the

1543
00:52:26,826 --> 00:52:29,395
soil first. You know, we have to take

1544
00:52:29,395 --> 00:52:31,630
care of them, and that's through living plants.

1545
00:52:31,790 --> 00:52:33,626
Right? We always say healthy soil healthy plants.

1546
00:52:33,786 --> 00:52:35,463
Well, what comes after healthy plants, healthy animals.

1547
00:52:35,622 --> 00:52:37,554
So we gotta understand the hierarchy. Take care

1548
00:52:37,554 --> 00:52:39,074
of the animals in the soil first.

1549
00:52:40,594 --> 00:52:42,674
Dave brand done a phenomenal job building soils

1550
00:52:42,674 --> 00:52:44,434
improving his soil just through cover crops living

1551
00:52:44,434 --> 00:52:46,809
roots crop rotation, diversity armor or reduces and

1552
00:52:46,929 --> 00:52:48,760
service you name it. But the 1 thing

1553
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:49,818
he did not have

1554
00:52:50,353 --> 00:52:51,388
was integrated rum.

1555
00:52:52,742 --> 00:52:54,493
I think that is the cherry on top

1556
00:52:54,493 --> 00:52:56,338
of the whole service Sunday here that we're

1557
00:52:56,338 --> 00:52:58,009
we're snacking on mister Darren movement,

1558
00:52:59,282 --> 00:53:00,952
but it's not for everybody. Also.

1559
00:53:02,304 --> 00:53:04,389
Some folks are just to spread out On

1560
00:53:04,389 --> 00:53:04,947
a scale,

1561
00:53:06,542 --> 00:53:07,898
their farm is a business and they don't

1562
00:53:07,898 --> 00:53:09,732
have time to jack with it. But I

1563
00:53:09,732 --> 00:53:12,523
also thank livestock to really make the same

1564
00:53:12,523 --> 00:53:13,422
scale and go

1565
00:53:14,214 --> 00:53:14,853
exponentially further,

1566
00:53:15,412 --> 00:53:17,010
what a great opportunity to bring Junior back

1567
00:53:17,010 --> 00:53:18,528
to the farm or have somebody else's kid

1568
00:53:18,528 --> 00:53:20,446
in the neighborhood that's interested in farming or

1569
00:53:20,446 --> 00:53:21,485
interested in creating livestock,

1570
00:53:21,979 --> 00:53:24,213
to understand how to properly adapt grace livestock

1571
00:53:24,213 --> 00:53:25,889
talk on those real crop acres. It's a

1572
00:53:25,889 --> 00:53:27,644
win win for everybody. It's a win for

1573
00:53:27,644 --> 00:53:29,181
our communities for sure

1574
00:53:30,291 --> 00:53:32,284
by getting those animals out there, helping to

1575
00:53:32,284 --> 00:53:35,235
reduce, you know, wind erosion, you know, nitrates

1576
00:53:35,235 --> 00:53:36,431
in the water. I mean, you just name

1577
00:53:36,431 --> 00:53:37,945
it them... That what cover crops can do,

1578
00:53:38,185 --> 00:53:39,552
that's that's great. But what Cattle can do

1579
00:53:39,552 --> 00:53:41,302
to the cover crops as well, that's the

1580
00:53:41,302 --> 00:53:43,291
whole another story. Because if we understand what

1581
00:53:43,450 --> 00:53:45,120
Cal takes in about 70 percent of that's

1582
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:46,393
gonna come out the backside what a great

1583
00:53:46,393 --> 00:53:48,312
way to. To cycle some of those nutrients

1584
00:53:48,312 --> 00:53:50,057
and get them into readily available for for

1585
00:53:50,057 --> 00:53:52,198
that next crash crop. But I think Rum

1586
00:53:52,198 --> 00:53:53,411
is are are critical

1587
00:53:55,626 --> 00:53:57,455
I can't stress that enough. I mean, I'd

1588
00:53:57,455 --> 00:53:59,524
love to see animals across every acre in

1589
00:53:59,524 --> 00:54:01,911
the Midwest. Will it happen in my lifetime?

1590
00:54:02,323 --> 00:54:03,993
Probably not. I'm not that good of a

1591
00:54:03,993 --> 00:54:05,186
consultant for understanding.

1592
00:54:06,537 --> 00:54:08,764
But but it's just working within the context.

1593
00:54:09,002 --> 00:54:09,979
Right? You gotta

1594
00:54:10,527 --> 00:54:11,799
some people just don't wanna it. I think

1595
00:54:11,799 --> 00:54:13,253
there's so many misconceptions

1596
00:54:13,865 --> 00:54:16,011
about for 1 cover crops, but also livestock

1597
00:54:16,011 --> 00:54:17,918
on the land. A lot of bad management

1598
00:54:17,918 --> 00:54:18,713
in the in the past,

1599
00:54:19,762 --> 00:54:21,434
gave Cattle a bad eye. Gave sheep a

1600
00:54:21,434 --> 00:54:22,628
bad eye. I mean, in My god that's

1601
00:54:22,628 --> 00:54:23,981
why they got a sheep foot roller out

1602
00:54:23,981 --> 00:54:25,095
there. But honestly,

1603
00:54:25,652 --> 00:54:27,579
I love Crazy sheep By I've run, that's

1604
00:54:27,579 --> 00:54:29,659
my main enterprise is is is sheep along

1605
00:54:29,659 --> 00:54:31,099
with my row crop operation, but I've had

1606
00:54:31,179 --> 00:54:31,659
Cattle too.

1607
00:54:32,219 --> 00:54:32,460
And,

1608
00:54:33,179 --> 00:54:34,219
cattle are much easier.

1609
00:54:34,874 --> 00:54:36,550
Potentially through some of these cover crops. But

1610
00:54:36,550 --> 00:54:38,306
you wanna talk about a way to recoup

1611
00:54:38,306 --> 00:54:39,662
some of the value that you've just put

1612
00:54:39,662 --> 00:54:42,636
out there, but also probably get back

1613
00:54:43,746 --> 00:54:45,980
a 3 to 1 return on that, grace

1614
00:54:45,980 --> 00:54:49,250
animals across it, cycle that and stimulate that

1615
00:54:49,250 --> 00:54:50,686
because what those animals are doing, not only

1616
00:54:50,686 --> 00:54:52,735
are they depositing biology as we talked about

1617
00:54:53,253 --> 00:54:55,646
how to increase in in fast track biology.

1618
00:54:55,885 --> 00:54:58,198
So you're getting that biology and document, through

1619
00:54:58,198 --> 00:54:58,756
your livestock,

1620
00:54:59,315 --> 00:55:01,228
but you're also stimulating those plants to say,

1621
00:55:01,388 --> 00:55:03,876
out Injured, I'm gonna send off more

1622
00:55:04,675 --> 00:55:06,590
exit here to feed biology because it I

1623
00:55:06,590 --> 00:55:07,867
need some repair work down here.

1624
00:55:08,825 --> 00:55:10,820
So you're gonna cycle some more post synthetic

1625
00:55:10,820 --> 00:55:12,989
activity. And really just make that whole system

1626
00:55:12,989 --> 00:55:15,063
crank, and it's just... Boy it just it

1627
00:55:15,063 --> 00:55:16,896
just sounds like all also cylinders under fire

1628
00:55:16,896 --> 00:55:18,571
at the same time when when you got

1629
00:55:18,571 --> 00:55:20,485
the livestock integrated on that on that acre.

1630
00:55:20,739 --> 00:55:22,324
To me of the beauty of, you know,

1631
00:55:22,641 --> 00:55:24,226
integrating the livestock on the roll crop acres,

1632
00:55:24,384 --> 00:55:26,524
is that just you're just adding multiple benefits

1633
00:55:26,524 --> 00:55:27,475
on top of each other.

1634
00:55:28,363 --> 00:55:30,673
The 1 thing that it allows is for

1635
00:55:30,673 --> 00:55:32,745
actually more diversity in the crop rotation. Now

1636
00:55:32,745 --> 00:55:34,736
a lot of people were Always I talking

1637
00:55:34,736 --> 00:55:36,429
about it, how great it would be if

1638
00:55:36,429 --> 00:55:37,949
you could get a small grain in the

1639
00:55:37,949 --> 00:55:39,949
rotation, but the typical pushback we get as

1640
00:55:39,949 --> 00:55:40,190
well.

1641
00:55:41,069 --> 00:55:42,909
That's great. But I can't make any money

1642
00:55:42,909 --> 00:55:44,999
growing oats, or I can't make anybody growing

1643
00:55:44,999 --> 00:55:45,238
wheat.

1644
00:55:45,876 --> 00:55:47,630
But if you can grow that crop, and

1645
00:55:47,630 --> 00:55:49,383
then you're harvesting mid midsummer and you've got

1646
00:55:49,383 --> 00:55:51,296
the opportunity to come in there with a

1647
00:55:51,296 --> 00:55:54,099
diverse you know, multi species warm and cool

1648
00:55:54,099 --> 00:55:56,489
season mix, and then g that. Well, there's

1649
00:55:56,489 --> 00:55:58,958
your economic opportunity. That's how you make that

1650
00:55:58,958 --> 00:55:59,834
third crop pay,

1651
00:56:01,042 --> 00:56:03,685
and and make it pay very well. So

1652
00:56:04,217 --> 00:56:05,963
then you also get the benefit again of

1653
00:56:05,963 --> 00:56:07,710
if you're more than likely gonna get better

1654
00:56:07,710 --> 00:56:09,615
corn in and soybean yields, so we're whatever.

1655
00:56:09,789 --> 00:56:11,464
Crop you're growing in the in the off

1656
00:56:11,464 --> 00:56:13,639
years. So you gotta look at the profitability

1657
00:56:13,857 --> 00:56:16,170
of the entire rotation, not just that 1

1658
00:56:16,170 --> 00:56:18,324
year where you're grazing. So there's... It's a

1659
00:56:18,324 --> 00:56:19,541
multiple year benefit

1660
00:56:20,488 --> 00:56:22,315
And I'm sure it's the same in row

1661
00:56:22,315 --> 00:56:25,435
crop as it is in livestock that

1662
00:56:25,809 --> 00:56:27,500
oftentimes the most productive

1663
00:56:28,369 --> 00:56:29,889
operations are not the most profitable.

1664
00:56:30,289 --> 00:56:32,449
The ones that have the highest yield, the

1665
00:56:32,449 --> 00:56:34,150
ones that we the most pounds

1666
00:56:35,170 --> 00:56:35,730
are not,

1667
00:56:36,620 --> 00:56:38,923
necessarily the most profitable because there are so

1668
00:56:38,923 --> 00:56:42,100
many inputs that go into achieving that higher

1669
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:44,086
yield, that higher we weight,

1670
00:56:44,818 --> 00:56:48,507
on an individual animal basis that the profit

1671
00:56:49,282 --> 00:56:51,434
doesn't is eaten up by the amount of

1672
00:56:51,434 --> 00:56:53,202
inputs it took to get there, Is that

1673
00:56:53,202 --> 00:56:54,074
true in your experience?

1674
00:56:54,708 --> 00:56:56,057
I was to say, you know, the grazing

1675
00:56:56,057 --> 00:56:57,747
cannot not only reduce cost,

1676
00:56:58,436 --> 00:57:00,499
you know, on the livestock side, would, obviously,

1677
00:57:00,737 --> 00:57:02,342
there's... We can get into that there's all

1678
00:57:02,342 --> 00:57:04,194
kinds of opportunities for stockpile,

1679
00:57:04,569 --> 00:57:06,081
grazing and then, you know, just keeping them

1680
00:57:06,081 --> 00:57:07,512
out there longer feed and less, hey.

1681
00:57:08,244 --> 00:57:10,789
Huge economic benefit for the livestock, but also

1682
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:12,300
it can reduce your costs in the crop

1683
00:57:12,300 --> 00:57:14,846
side as well. So you're you didn't... Again,

1684
00:57:15,338 --> 00:57:18,067
many, many benefits if you can integrate livestock

1685
00:57:18,523 --> 00:57:20,115
over and above what it does for the

1686
00:57:20,115 --> 00:57:20,433
soil.

1687
00:57:21,707 --> 00:57:23,163
Well, I mean, just think about

1688
00:57:23,473 --> 00:57:25,144
talk about a roller crimp as a as

1689
00:57:25,144 --> 00:57:26,178
a termination tool.

1690
00:57:26,894 --> 00:57:29,041
That's burning and diesel and everything else that

1691
00:57:29,041 --> 00:57:31,530
you've got going on there. Whereas the livestock

1692
00:57:31,530 --> 00:57:34,570
can accomplish some of, maybe not quite as

1693
00:57:34,570 --> 00:57:36,429
exactly efficiently, but they're also

1694
00:57:36,730 --> 00:57:39,130
doing more than just laying cover down, they're...

1695
00:57:39,545 --> 00:57:42,264
Processing those things and and shooting... Like you

1696
00:57:42,264 --> 00:57:44,184
said, 70 for 70 percent of it out

1697
00:57:44,184 --> 00:57:46,284
the back and and those things are probably

1698
00:57:47,465 --> 00:57:48,844
better than just

1699
00:57:49,239 --> 00:57:50,059
plain old

1700
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:52,039
carbon laid down on the soil in the

1701
00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:53,000
end at the end of the day.

1702
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,799
Yep. Much better. Yep.

1703
00:57:56,454 --> 00:57:59,251
So yeah. Just, I guess, anything else there

1704
00:57:59,251 --> 00:58:01,088
as far as the grazing the cover crops

1705
00:58:01,088 --> 00:58:03,666
and and how that fits into the to

1706
00:58:03,725 --> 00:58:03,885
a...

1707
00:58:04,778 --> 00:58:06,774
Cash grain scenario that we've been talking about

1708
00:58:06,774 --> 00:58:07,274
here

1709
00:58:07,652 --> 00:58:08,291
for the most part?

1710
00:58:09,727 --> 00:58:12,521
Well, we touched that nutrient cycling earlier, but

1711
00:58:12,521 --> 00:58:12,760
again,

1712
00:58:13,492 --> 00:58:15,479
another huge benefit there. If you take a

1713
00:58:15,479 --> 00:58:16,614
cover crop that

1714
00:58:17,148 --> 00:58:18,521
naturally, if you just let it

1715
00:58:18,975 --> 00:58:21,298
decompose and die, it might take 6 months

1716
00:58:21,298 --> 00:58:23,137
or a year, whatever it is for those

1717
00:58:23,137 --> 00:58:25,134
nutrients to cycle back through that soil system.

1718
00:58:25,693 --> 00:58:27,212
You're on that through a cow. You just

1719
00:58:27,212 --> 00:58:28,810
did it in 48 hours,

1720
00:58:29,463 --> 00:58:31,693
plus you're adding a whole load of biology.

1721
00:58:31,932 --> 00:58:33,467
I mean, a rum

1722
00:58:34,082 --> 00:58:35,378
digestive system is

1723
00:58:35,755 --> 00:58:37,528
just absolutely full of organisms,

1724
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:39,590
you know, the whole food webs is in

1725
00:58:39,590 --> 00:58:41,419
there, and it's a lot of the same

1726
00:58:41,419 --> 00:58:43,327
organisms that live in the soil. So you're

1727
00:58:43,327 --> 00:58:44,361
you're turbo charging,

1728
00:58:44,838 --> 00:58:47,065
you know, the biological activity in your soil

1729
00:58:47,065 --> 00:58:49,387
when you run a a grazing animal across

1730
00:58:49,387 --> 00:58:51,855
that. So big benefits there on the nutrient

1731
00:58:51,855 --> 00:58:53,208
cycling side as well.

1732
00:58:53,844 --> 00:58:55,675
And you you definitely should be taking a

1733
00:58:55,675 --> 00:58:57,426
a nutrient credit for that when you're going

1734
00:58:57,426 --> 00:58:59,434
back your cash crop. Back to where we

1735
00:58:59,434 --> 00:58:59,993
started. Right,

1736
00:59:00,950 --> 00:59:02,306
speeding up biological time.

1737
00:59:03,103 --> 00:59:04,699
We can do it with cover crops, but

1738
00:59:04,699 --> 00:59:05,974
we can do it with we can do

1739
00:59:05,974 --> 00:59:07,704
it faster with cover crops

1740
00:59:08,304 --> 00:59:10,860
integrating livestock as well into those acres. Yeah.

1741
00:59:11,180 --> 00:59:12,538
And 1 of the best things that I

1742
00:59:12,538 --> 00:59:14,456
think about having livestock or even just that

1743
00:59:14,456 --> 00:59:16,227
diversity, you know, diversity key we talked about.

1744
00:59:16,467 --> 00:59:17,264
I talked a lot of guys and I

1745
00:59:17,264 --> 00:59:18,541
made it through eighties and they said the

1746
00:59:18,541 --> 00:59:20,296
only thing Made it counted through the eighties

1747
00:59:20,296 --> 00:59:22,291
was the diversity of enterprises on their operation.

1748
00:59:22,610 --> 00:59:24,844
This So livestock and cover crops. And even

1749
00:59:24,844 --> 00:59:25,795
on it doesn't even have to be your

1750
00:59:25,795 --> 00:59:27,380
most productive ground, it can be from marginal

1751
00:59:27,380 --> 00:59:29,045
land, just get something established there.

1752
00:59:30,249 --> 00:59:32,243
Where I'm at my neck woods and my

1753
00:59:32,243 --> 00:59:32,722
context,

1754
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:34,157
a lot of timber soil,

1755
00:59:35,912 --> 00:59:37,427
most guys are forming all the way. They're

1756
00:59:37,427 --> 00:59:39,501
scraping the planter, scraping the combines with the

1757
00:59:39,501 --> 00:59:41,188
tree limbs, Right That to me, that's not

1758
00:59:41,188 --> 00:59:42,859
being a good steward to the land. That

1759
00:59:42,859 --> 00:59:44,132
land is not to be row crop.

1760
00:59:44,847 --> 00:59:47,969
So maybe like myself. Right I've taken 30

1761
00:59:47,969 --> 00:59:49,730
feet all the way around at least on

1762
00:59:49,730 --> 00:59:51,489
all my my timber fields, and I've got,

1763
00:59:51,889 --> 00:59:53,889
a strip if you will. I can either

1764
00:59:53,889 --> 00:59:55,809
hey, raise it whatever, but I'm not putting

1765
00:59:55,809 --> 00:59:57,342
those inputs out. There. But it makes it

1766
00:59:57,342 --> 00:59:58,221
easier for me to grace.

1767
00:59:59,099 --> 01:00:00,615
When I do get livestock in there.

1768
01:00:01,653 --> 01:00:03,889
That livestock integration is just critical, help break

1769
01:00:03,889 --> 01:00:05,086
the weed cycles so you know and our

1770
01:00:05,086 --> 01:00:06,936
corn being ultra up alterations, You know, we're

1771
01:00:06,936 --> 01:00:08,293
not in a rotation in our row crop

1772
01:00:08,293 --> 01:00:10,368
world that's alternating between corn soybeans for the

1773
01:00:10,368 --> 01:00:12,283
most part. What a great way to break

1774
01:00:12,283 --> 01:00:13,320
up weed cycles,

1775
01:00:13,894 --> 01:00:14,294
you know,

1776
01:00:15,333 --> 01:00:17,729
everybody talks about filing. Weed, resistant weeds. Well,

1777
01:00:18,289 --> 01:00:19,726
they're resistant because we've been doing the same

1778
01:00:19,726 --> 01:00:21,164
thing thing for a year and year out.

1779
01:00:21,339 --> 01:00:22,932
You know, and our our tools in the

1780
01:00:22,932 --> 01:00:24,365
box from a herbicide standpoint,

1781
01:00:25,161 --> 01:00:27,710
our running thin very fast. You know, water

1782
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:29,143
hemp is the bay of all road crop

1783
01:00:29,143 --> 01:00:29,780
guys for,

1784
01:00:30,274 --> 01:00:32,110
especially here in the Midwest. And now they're

1785
01:00:32,110 --> 01:00:33,089
find an Hp,

1786
01:00:34,106 --> 01:00:35,942
resistant water in. Well, that's a that's a

1787
01:00:35,942 --> 01:00:38,198
bleach or cali type product. Right? So

1788
01:00:39,469 --> 01:00:41,139
we relied on D cam. That came was

1789
01:00:41,139 --> 01:00:42,809
the holy savior to come out. That was

1790
01:00:42,809 --> 01:00:45,355
towards the end of my my ag retail

1791
01:00:45,355 --> 01:00:47,423
days, and I can't think of what.

1792
01:00:48,552 --> 01:00:50,778
My opinion what a worse product to come

1793
01:00:50,778 --> 01:00:53,402
out with for already that had herbicide resistance

1794
01:00:53,402 --> 01:00:55,096
built up it, but what a fast track

1795
01:00:55,231 --> 01:00:57,219
of what a herbicide resistance can build up

1796
01:00:57,219 --> 01:00:57,538
to that.

1797
01:00:58,668 --> 01:01:00,421
Even talking about Larry and Herbicides, You know,

1798
01:01:00,581 --> 01:01:02,494
practices have been talked about it. They're they're

1799
01:01:02,494 --> 01:01:04,088
not effective. I mean, they're they're coming to

1800
01:01:04,088 --> 01:01:05,683
an end at some point. Mother nature will

1801
01:01:05,683 --> 01:01:06,081
always win.

1802
01:01:06,813 --> 01:01:08,827
And the only way we can efficiently

1803
01:01:09,601 --> 01:01:11,910
break some disciples is through some our cultural

1804
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:12,308
practices.

1805
01:01:12,786 --> 01:01:14,777
Not not so much to chemical practices, You

1806
01:01:14,777 --> 01:01:17,184
know, that every every herbicide out there is

1807
01:01:17,184 --> 01:01:18,779
gonna build resistance to at some point.

1808
01:01:20,295 --> 01:01:21,810
So we gotta understand that. And if we

1809
01:01:21,810 --> 01:01:22,927
can throw a cover crop in there and

1810
01:01:22,927 --> 01:01:24,123
gray it what a great way to break

1811
01:01:24,123 --> 01:01:24,921
that weed cycle,

1812
01:01:25,494 --> 01:01:26,851
not only we'd cycle with some of the

1813
01:01:26,851 --> 01:01:28,767
other things we battle, our diseases our our

1814
01:01:28,767 --> 01:01:30,284
fungi decides and things like that, we can

1815
01:01:30,284 --> 01:01:32,599
start to reduce on. By building some aggregation,

1816
01:01:32,759 --> 01:01:34,675
getting some life back into the soils, spill

1817
01:01:34,675 --> 01:01:37,004
some, in the soil. So, you know, that's...

1818
01:01:37,243 --> 01:01:38,461
There's just so many

1819
01:01:39,078 --> 01:01:40,992
benefits that can come with this with proper

1820
01:01:40,992 --> 01:01:43,385
management and understanding of what what you want

1821
01:01:43,385 --> 01:01:44,661
that system to be and do.

1822
01:01:45,314 --> 01:01:46,829
Doesn't have to be farm scale to start

1823
01:01:46,829 --> 01:01:48,584
out It can be whatever comfort level you

1824
01:01:48,584 --> 01:01:51,615
be happy with. But to me, it's... It

1825
01:01:51,615 --> 01:01:53,768
it it just... It it it works, and

1826
01:01:53,768 --> 01:01:54,885
it's a no brainer for me.

1827
01:01:57,375 --> 01:01:59,690
Certainly, anything else you wanna say there as

1828
01:01:59,690 --> 01:02:01,126
we wrap up? I think that's that's a

1829
01:02:01,126 --> 01:02:02,563
great way to wrap it up, but Brian,

1830
01:02:02,643 --> 01:02:03,920
anything else you wanna say?

1831
01:02:05,054 --> 01:02:06,492
No. We covered a lot of ground. Yeah.

1832
01:02:06,652 --> 01:02:08,889
I just encourage people to... If they've never

1833
01:02:08,889 --> 01:02:10,567
planted a cover crop, just look into it,

1834
01:02:10,886 --> 01:02:12,005
start asking questions.

1835
01:02:12,338 --> 01:02:13,530
You know, if you got a neighbor that's

1836
01:02:13,530 --> 01:02:14,880
soon and talk to him, asking him what

1837
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,468
he's doing, learn from other people,

1838
01:02:17,103 --> 01:02:18,532
you know, reach out to us, if they

1839
01:02:18,532 --> 01:02:21,514
have questions, we... It's just, you So fundamentally

1840
01:02:21,734 --> 01:02:23,654
important to keep that living root in the

1841
01:02:23,654 --> 01:02:25,974
soil as long as possible and cover crops

1842
01:02:25,974 --> 01:02:28,783
are definitely 1 of our main tools for

1843
01:02:28,783 --> 01:02:31,490
accomplishing that as well as, you know, being

1844
01:02:31,490 --> 01:02:33,958
able to integrate livestock into an operation in

1845
01:02:33,958 --> 01:02:34,914
a profitable way.

1846
01:02:36,123 --> 01:02:37,793
So give it a try. And I like

1847
01:02:37,873 --> 01:02:39,543
I like how you that, Brian, you said

1848
01:02:39,543 --> 01:02:40,896
we covered a lot of ground. I hope

1849
01:02:40,896 --> 01:02:42,248
we sure did, hope we got a lot

1850
01:02:42,248 --> 01:02:42,646
of people.

1851
01:02:43,139 --> 01:02:45,213
Encourage find some more cover crops. Yeah. Pump

1852
01:02:45,213 --> 01:02:48,961
pun intended. Yeah. Alex say drill maybe drill

1853
01:02:48,961 --> 01:02:49,918
with cover curry. Yes.

1854
01:02:51,912 --> 01:02:53,916
I think that it's it is a system.

1855
01:02:54,074 --> 01:02:55,661
What I'm realizing more and more is there

1856
01:02:55,661 --> 01:02:57,407
isn't really 1 of the 6 principles of

1857
01:02:57,407 --> 01:02:59,470
soil health that you can emphasize over the

1858
01:02:59,470 --> 01:02:59,629
other.

1859
01:03:00,517 --> 01:03:02,027
You know, you talked about the importance of

1860
01:03:02,027 --> 01:03:04,275
living roots, but you can't you can't

1861
01:03:04,728 --> 01:03:06,023
emphasize that over

1862
01:03:06,476 --> 01:03:07,112
over having...

1863
01:03:08,003 --> 01:03:11,592
Armor on the soil, reducing disturbance, diversity, livestock,

1864
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:14,404
integration or your context. All of those things

1865
01:03:14,702 --> 01:03:16,217
have to be there as well. You know?

1866
01:03:16,377 --> 01:03:17,036
And so

1867
01:03:18,386 --> 01:03:20,619
the the... Like you said, the cherry on

1868
01:03:20,619 --> 01:03:22,294
top is to get them all all together,

1869
01:03:23,411 --> 01:03:25,644
and we'll never go as far as we

1870
01:03:25,644 --> 01:03:28,127
could if we're skipping out on 1 of

1871
01:03:28,127 --> 01:03:28,445
them. So,

1872
01:03:29,239 --> 01:03:30,907
Luke and and Brian, thank you guys for

1873
01:03:30,907 --> 01:03:32,178
your time, and they I really appreciate it.

1874
01:03:32,734 --> 01:03:34,561
Thanks, Corey. Glad to do it. Thanks for

1875
01:03:34,561 --> 01:03:34,879
having us.

1876
01:03:35,769 --> 01:03:37,766
Very good stuff there with Brian and Luke.

1877
01:03:38,246 --> 01:03:40,722
Really appreciate them. As I said, fresh off

1878
01:03:40,722 --> 01:03:42,240
soil Health Academy myself.

1879
01:03:43,052 --> 01:03:45,442
Very practical course. Really enjoyed the course,

1880
01:03:46,637 --> 01:03:47,695
good mix of

1881
01:03:48,070 --> 01:03:50,380
mornings in the classroom afternoons out in the

1882
01:03:50,380 --> 01:03:53,101
field and just for, you know, maybe it

1883
01:03:53,101 --> 01:03:54,928
was just the number of of things I've

1884
01:03:54,928 --> 01:03:56,677
been exposed to over the years or just

1885
01:03:56,677 --> 01:03:58,742
the first time I really understood.

1886
01:03:59,474 --> 01:04:01,149
What we're looking at when we pull that

1887
01:04:01,149 --> 01:04:03,223
soil plug out of the ground, some of

1888
01:04:03,223 --> 01:04:04,739
the different things that they were seeing, I

1889
01:04:04,739 --> 01:04:07,068
was able to see them as well. And

1890
01:04:07,068 --> 01:04:10,105
so, just, I think chalk that up to

1891
01:04:10,105 --> 01:04:11,224
the teachers. And,

1892
01:04:11,943 --> 01:04:14,500
the guys that were there pointing those things

1893
01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:15,059
out to us.

1894
01:04:15,793 --> 01:04:17,628
Along the way. So Encourage you to check

1895
01:04:17,628 --> 01:04:20,123
out a soil health canopy coming your way

1896
01:04:20,262 --> 01:04:22,916
near you or worth the trip to go

1897
01:04:23,229 --> 01:04:25,402
and track 1 down abroad

1898
01:04:26,017 --> 01:04:27,611
as well. Coming up next week on the

1899
01:04:27,690 --> 01:04:29,943
Working cow podcast. We're gonna talk to

1900
01:04:30,731 --> 01:04:31,682
Jordan Steele.

1901
01:04:32,475 --> 01:04:33,982
Jordan Steele is a member of a couple

1902
01:04:33,982 --> 01:04:35,409
of different teams. He's a member of team

1903
01:04:35,409 --> 01:04:36,836
of the team at Ranch Right. He's a

1904
01:04:36,836 --> 01:04:39,231
member of the team at ranch management consultants,

1905
01:04:39,390 --> 01:04:41,082
and we're gonna talk to him about forming

1906
01:04:41,376 --> 01:04:41,615
entities,

1907
01:04:42,648 --> 01:04:43,760
Llc, s corp,

1908
01:04:44,713 --> 01:04:47,195
C corps and the like. So what what

1909
01:04:47,195 --> 01:04:49,034
are the different considerations? What are the things

1910
01:04:49,034 --> 01:04:51,434
to think about, what are the benefits advantages,

1911
01:04:51,675 --> 01:04:53,594
risks, all those things, try to cover.

1912
01:04:54,169 --> 01:04:55,468
All facets of

1913
01:04:56,087 --> 01:04:58,244
entities coming your away real soon on another

1914
01:04:58,244 --> 01:05:00,321
episode of the Working cow podcast. We will

1915
01:05:00,321 --> 01:05:01,380
see you then

1916
01:05:05,036 --> 01:05:07,663
We invite you to visit working cows dot

1917
01:05:07,663 --> 01:05:10,449
net to subscribe to the show via itunes

1918
01:05:10,449 --> 01:05:13,411
or stitch stitches. You'll also find detailed show

1919
01:05:13,411 --> 01:05:14,048
notes pages,

1920
01:05:14,686 --> 01:05:17,474
resources from our guests and the industry leaders

1921
01:05:17,474 --> 01:05:20,200
who have influenced them. For more ideas on

1922
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,034
putting your cows to work for you in

1923
01:05:22,034 --> 01:05:25,224
a more profitable way, tune in next week.