00;00;11;20 - 00;00;44;17 Unknown Hi, I'm Gail. Hi, I'm Katherine. Welcome to women over 78 and reimagined our award winning weekly podcast, Visit Women over 70.com and learn how you may become engaged with our community through the aging Reimagined circle. And we hope to see you at our next online monthly program. And we want to thank our sponsor and AARP Illinois, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization dedicated to empowering people 50 and older to choose how they live as they age. 00;00;44;19 - 00;01;03;00 Unknown With nearly 1.7 million members in Illinois, AARP volunteers advocate for affordable living or providing trusted information and resources that help older adults thrive. There's an aarp.org/l a night to learn more, 00;01;03;02 - 00;01;18;29 Unknown and we're really delighted today to have in the studio with us Phyllis Smithson. Phyllis is 84. She's been in the field of aging for over 50 years, long before aging became considered a stage of life and not a death sentence. 00;01;19;01 - 00;01;50;08 Unknown Caregiving was not a new concept for her. After watching her mom struggle with caring for her dad, who had Parkinson's disease, she took her first job in a nursing home as an activity director. Research in aging was coming alive in the 70s at the University of Chicago, and Phyllis became an active participant, earning several degrees simultaneously as her desire to make an impact led to creating programs and changing policy. 00;01;50;10 - 00;02;23;18 Unknown Through her long tenure, the Council and Jewish elderly senior life Phyllis became an important leader in many organizations, including Chicago's Sister Cities social Services exchanges, the Illinois Council on Aging, and most recently, Chicago's Senior Advisory Council and the Village Movement. In 2015, she was proud to be awarded a Lifetime Achievement Award from both the Illinois and the National Associations of Social Work. 00;02;23;20 - 00;02;57;06 Unknown Phyllis mantra is, there is so much to do and so many ways to grow. So, Phyllis, we're really delighted to have you. And, you know, you've accomplished so much. You really have in these 50 years. And you intend to accomplish even more. So let's start by sharing some of the key areas that continue to need attention. When we spoke, you talked about law, hospice research policy and why you continue to do this important work. 00;02;57;09 - 00;03;24;09 Unknown So let's start there. Why are these things important? You know, when I first got in the field, in 71, I guess it was when I first took that job as an activity director. I had three small children at home. They were the, the youngest one was just starting to go to. Just starting in kindergarten. And I shifted from wanting to be, a teacher with three small children. 00;03;24;10 - 00;04;00;07 Unknown Nobody thought, oh, maybe that's not the best idea. And we baby boomers were already alive, and the literature was already saying that this burst. Which of course, created all those fools. We're all aging. So the aging population was there, and I began to I, I studied under a wonderful, professor at the, at the birth Eastern Illinois University, which just got his PhD in gerontology at the University of Chicago. 00;04;00;09 - 00;04;29;19 Unknown Doctor down took a hara and began that was fascinated by the whole area of aging. At that point, it was in psychology. But I then moved into working with, management in general. But but the fact is that we are aged. Here we are 50 years later. I've grown old in the field of aging, and, I just looked up to statistics in 20 in, in the year 2000. 00;04;29;21 - 00;04;46;27 Unknown Our average age, global age was 26.5. In just 25 years, the global age is now 33.6. That means our population is aging, particularly in the United States, in Europe and Southeast Asia. And what does that mean? 00;04;47;01 - 00;04;48;20 Unknown And to me, 00;04;48;22 - 00;04;59;14 Unknown I think about ageism and people worry about that, but I think that there's also a multitude of opportunities of how we can thrive and grow. 00;04;59;16 - 00;05;12;12 Unknown As the society ages and how we can help younger generations understand the aging process and this stage of life, you so aptly characterized, I call 00;05;12;14 - 00;05;25;00 Unknown aging is a stage of life. 60. And when I see things saying 60 and over, I think, oh my God. 60 is different than 70, and certainly 75 and 75 is different than 90. 00;05;25;07 - 00;05;27;27 Unknown And now 90 is different than 105. 00;05;28;04 - 00;05;34;18 Unknown So what are some of these key areas that you work in? I know you you care a lot about policy. 00;05;34;24 - 00;05;38;18 Unknown What should we care about? I think, you know, it's. Why should we care about it? 00;05;38;18 - 00;05;40;25 Unknown the three of us were just at a conference 00;05;40;28 - 00;05;59;21 Unknown un women in health care. And if you look at each of the the issues, as you look as issues of women, caregiving and women, the reproductive rights policy has a huge implication for all of the areas of our lives. 00;05;59;24 - 00;06;26;03 Unknown And we can we can do a lot of things on the ground. We can do a lot of things at the, at the, at the micro level, but it's at the macro level that has a huge impact on our lives. How are things funded? How are things? How are things men managed? What legislation has impact on us? And, I, I mean, I can I can talk about some legislation that I think is very important, but, 00;06;26;05 - 00;06;28;18 Unknown I like working at each one of these levels. 00;06;28;18 - 00;06;53;08 Unknown How do we create things in our own neighborhoods that have impact on all of our lives? I mean, for example, how do we cross the street safely? How how how are our sidewalks are, you know? Do we trip over our sidewalks? Are there bikes on our sidewalks or where, you know, how do we all share the road? But policies have impact on all of that. 00;06;53;09 - 00;07;28;22 Unknown So what are some of the legislation that's that this if it's important. So glad you asked. Okay. So in the early in the mid 60s, when I was just beginning to think about this area, we passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Older Americans Act. You may not be as familiar with the Older Americans Act because, of course, Medicare and Medicaid are the ones that we, most often, hear about. 00;07;28;25 - 00;08;01;08 Unknown The the Older Americans Act funds things like our home delivered meals. It funds our nutrition sites. It funds also our senior centers and senior centers are located in all of our in, in throughout Illinois and throughout the United States. So that funds our, state units on aging. The Illinois Department on Aging gets some of its funding from the Older Americans Act. 00;08;01;10 - 00;08;36;02 Unknown In Illinois, there are 13 area agencies on aging. One of them is the city of Chicago. One of them is suburban Cook County. And then there's 12 more throughout the state. Each one of those plans for, develops plans and and keeps the government informed about the needs of older adults. The Older Americans Act receives about $2.3 billion in funding in 2025. 00;08;36;08 - 00;09;11;18 Unknown It needs to be reauthorized every three years, and it's stalled right now in the Senate. It's Senate Bill 2120, and it needs to be reauthorized. Right now, it continues to be funded ad 20, 24, 25 levels. It needs an increase in funding. And that's the reauthorization. And it's stalled right now. So that's one bill. At the state level, there's a couple of bills that I think are really important. 00;09;11;21 - 00;09;22;18 Unknown And one of them that has been something that I think dogged me for years, and that is when you go into a bank with a caregiver 00;09;22;21 - 00;09;25;29 Unknown and the bank teller sees you taking out 00;09;26;02 - 00;09;33;01 Unknown a larger sum than normal than you normally would. What is the bank teller do? 00;09;33;07 - 00;09;38;13 Unknown Sometimes something. Usually nothing. There's a bill. 00;09;38;16 - 00;10;02;11 Unknown House bill? 4767, in Illinois, in the Illinois legislature. Right now, that's been fought for many, many years by the banking and and financial industries to make financial advisers, mandated reporters. That's a really important bill. And I would hope that 00;10;02;11 - 00;10;14;15 Unknown someday it will get passed. And, AARP, I know, supports that bill. There's another bill, and I don't have the number for it, but that's things and I think AARP is supporting that one. 00;10;14;15 - 00;10;21;03 Unknown And that's been put forth by Holm, which is a wonderful local organization. And that's to provide, 00;10;21;06 - 00;10;41;27 Unknown people with funding to re, to redo their homes so they can stay in their homes longer. And to, to retrofit their homes or to maintain their homes, in a way that, that, keeps them, keeps up their value and maintains some in the neighborhood. 00;10;41;29 - 00;10;45;21 Unknown But the one that I've been most excited about is the multi-sector plan on aging. 00;10;45;24 - 00;10;46;18 Unknown And that one 00;10;46;21 - 00;11;06;29 Unknown That is, the just such an exciting initiative. That unfortunately was not made into a law, but it was a legislature. It was an executive order by our governor. Governor Pritzker. And, it, the multi-sector plan was put forth on December 31st of this year. 00;11;07;01 - 00;11;10;29 Unknown And it's something that we can all get engaged in because it's an active plan. 00;11;11;03 - 00;11;25;02 Unknown it's not a hardcopy plan that's sitting on somebody's shelf. It is a living document that lives on. If you go to engaging illinois.com or.gov. Gov. 00;11;25;05 - 00;11;32;21 Unknown It's within the, the Illinois Department on Aging and Michelle or Hoke 00;11;32;24 - 00;11;34;05 Unknown can't pronounce her last name. 00;11;34;05 - 00;12;12;18 Unknown I'm sorry, but, but Michelle, is leading the initiative, and, it is not only the Department on Aging, but it's a multi-sector plan. 15 agencies of the state of Illinois are involved, as well as AARP and, and and the the the idea they have for purposes it's to make communities livable, to provide health at all ages because how how we are how we treat our health as young people will determine how healthy we are as an old, as older adults. 00;12;12;21 - 00;12;41;27 Unknown It will it helps caregivers. And it looks at affordability. So it has four pillars and just a million proposals, under it for how to succeed. There's some low hanging fruit, some longer term that will involve legislation, education, resources. Wow. So the multi-sector plan on aging is something that we have in Illinois and Illinois. They stars on California's plan for aging. 00;12;41;29 - 00;13;06;25 Unknown And there are several other states that also have plans and other states that are in the planning stages to do this, but with the recognition that our population is aging. And how do we do that in a way that that, citizens can grow and thrive and grow old in the state? How are you involved with this, this plan through some of the organizations that you're part of? 00;13;06;27 - 00;13;33;28 Unknown Yes. Yes. I've been consulting working with, Health and Medicine Policy research group since 2004 and, co-chaired the their long term care. Their the center for it was the center for Long-Term care Reform was my friend throughout the whole state. And through that, we looked at various ways of reforming and 00;13;33;28 - 00;13;35;16 Unknown their boards. 00;13;35;18 - 00;13;38;25 Unknown And there are aging accounts now. They're aging equity. 00;13;39;00 - 00;13;45;13 Unknown Committee. I guess it is was the was the group that that really came up with the idea 00;13;45;19 - 00;13;56;20 Unknown but tried to push it through legislatively, ultimately got it got the executive order to make that happen. But it was they did the research. They did much of the groundwork for making this happen. 00;13;56;22 - 00;14;13;29 Unknown 60 played it at all to the Chicago Senior Advocacy Council that you're on. That were the or at let me explain those two. There's two councils that I sit on, advisory councils. One is an advisory council to the Illinois Department on Aging. 00;14;14;02 - 00;14;19;20 Unknown It they're mandated to have an advisory council of people throughout the state of Illinois. 00;14;19;23 - 00;14;28;05 Unknown And that's a that's really, I got involved in that council because I was involved in, state, 00;14;28;10 - 00;14;30;24 Unknown advisory councils, to the Department on Aging. 00;14;31;01 - 00;14;34;29 Unknown So I've been sitting on that. I chair that for a number of years. I no longer chair of that, 00;14;35;02 - 00;14;40;28 Unknown moved it on to younger people who are now doing some really interesting things with that. 00;14;41;01 - 00;14;45;18 Unknown and then the I mentioned the air area agencies on aging. Each one of 00;14;45;21 - 00;14;53;20 Unknown them has to have an advisory council and the advisory council to the city's Department on Aging, which rests in the 00;14;53;20 - 00;14;57;07 Unknown Department of Family Support Services, and the Department on Aging. 00;14;57;07 - 00;15;10;10 Unknown Riverside's their and that Department on Aging has to have IT advisory Council. And I was just named to that and we had our first meet. It ended last month. 00;15;10;13 - 00;15;18;15 Unknown Yeah. Well, you could talk about this for the entire time, but the other, other thing that I think you've done that is so interesting 00;15;18;18 - 00;15;20;07 Unknown is being 00;15;20;07 - 00;15;20;23 Unknown a 00;15;20;28 - 00;15;21;26 Unknown trendsetter for 00;15;21;26 - 00;15;23;24 Unknown for the villages movement. 00;15;23;26 - 00;15;35;02 Unknown Oh, yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. And so tell us a little bit about that. I don't know if we've heard anybody on regarding the village movement, that the village movement, 00;15;35;05 - 00;15;40;02 Unknown started probably in around 2000 or so. 00;15;40;05 - 00;15;51;15 Unknown I like to picture this group. It's a group. It was a group of people in the Beacon Hill area in Boston, and they said, we really want to age in place. 00;15;51;15 - 00;16;20;09 Unknown We want to, we want to, but we love our neighborhood. We want to grow old here. They they developed a relationship with Mass General and with, you know, it was various, various organizations in their community. And they then built an organization. They they needed a nonprofit, a Fiber One C3, and they created a manual, and they got written out in The New York Times Magazine. 00;16;20;09 - 00;16;51;07 Unknown I believe that I believe The Washington Post picked up on it. So the word kind of got out that this group had started, and they then began to market their manual. So when we moved from Evanston down to Filter Bell in Chicago, I joined our local, neighborhood organization and attended one of their programs, which was kind of a forum on aging, and I volunteered to the committee. 00;16;51;09 - 00;16;54;02 Unknown and somebody brought the manual to that committee, 00;16;54;10 - 00;17;14;11 Unknown and we began to look at it. And we you know, at that point, we were a committee of a of the neighborhood organization saw source the name of the organization. And the committee began to grow and began to develop some programing for PSAs around the issues of aging. 00;17;14;14 - 00;17;49;10 Unknown And we ultimately broke off from PSAs and became our own Fiber One C3. So what is the Village Movement? Each village, there's a there's nine kind of or seven villages in the Chicago metropolitan area, and we've actually formed a consortium of those villages. There's one in Hyde Park, there's one in the village. Chicago started in Lincoln Park, and they kind of expanded out, to Lakeview and, and, we there there are people who live in our neighborhood who belong to the village. 00;17;49;10 - 00;17;54;17 Unknown Chicago, a much larger organization than ours is. There's one on the North Shore. 00;17;54;23 - 00;18;19;26 Unknown There's one up, in, Oak Park River forest, and there's one in the Edgewater Beach apartments, and there's one at, at the Edgewater Senior Center. So villages are based there. They're basically neighborhood organizations or organizations that are based in communities, run by the community, but by community members. 00;18;19;26 - 00;18;37;11 Unknown Some of they're all many of them are are non-profits. Some belong to the there's a national association. There's over 300 villages throughout the United States. And I think there's a few, internationally. And, 00;18;37;14 - 00;18;46;17 Unknown we help and support each other because the whole goal is for people to grow old and thrive within their communities. Now, I'm not saying aging in place. 00;18;46;17 - 00;18;54;04 Unknown I'm not saying necessarily staying in one's own apartment, but able to continue to thrive within one's own community. 00;18;54;07 - 00;19;02;25 Unknown and our our our village is totally our village. Our skyline village. Chicago. Primarily, 00;19;02;28 - 00;19;16;14 Unknown a high rise. I'm looking out the window. High rises along the, along the the Gold Coast, new east side. The street ville area, is totally volunteer run. 00;19;16;16 - 00;19;32;04 Unknown We do advocacy and we do programing in our community. We bring in speakers. We have social events, and we, and we advocate on behalf of people that are coming to them. We we were able to bring 00;19;32;07 - 00;19;42;26 Unknown adult playground equipment to our local park, Skyline Village. To that we got some. So so it's things like that. 00;19;42;26 - 00;19;45;11 Unknown And we have a good relationship with our aldermen, 00;19;45;16 - 00;19;46;27 Unknown and with our police department. 00;19;47;03 - 00;19;49;17 Unknown And now we're looking to nature friendly. 00;19;49;20 - 00;19;54;22 Unknown How do we make our community to a grandchild family? And we're spearheading that. And I. 00;19;54;25 - 00;19;57;21 Unknown once an activist, always an activist. 00;19;57;23 - 00;20;07;01 Unknown time goes so vast when when we're doing this. So tell us very quickly other different areas. 00;20;07;04 - 00;20;41;11 Unknown Laws, policy research that we should be thinking about in the Chicago area, specific. Well, I mentioned the multi-sector plan, and I think that that's I mean, that's really where this, look, this needs to be. I think, looking at getting involved and, and it, it there's a lot of broad initiatives that are, that, that are involved in that, I as it was being developed, I kept on saying it's not it's not the creation of the plan. 00;20;41;13 - 00;21;05;15 Unknown It's going to be the implementation and how we keep that plan of life and moving forward. So, for example, but so I mentioned the, the adult playground, but how is the park district using that equipment. Are they helping people train on that equipment? Are they putting that equipment in other parts so that people have access to it? 00;21;05;17 - 00;21;13;16 Unknown It's, you know, and that's just a very, very small example. Our, our streets are being are, are being, 00;21;13;19 - 00;21;31;06 Unknown modernized so that bikes can use the streets more effectively. How are we making sure that pedestrians also our kids, how do we share the streets and sidewalks in a way that older adults and all of us, as we age or as we become? 00;21;31;10 - 00;21;54;21 Unknown I mean, when I, when I look at curb cuts, I think about wooden curb cuts. I mean, I'm looking at us when our when we were pushing strollers, what we wouldn't have given for a curb cut. Right. The things that made things livable make things livable for everybody. And how do we continue to make things that available for everybody? 00;21;54;23 - 00;22;06;06 Unknown So I you know, I think at our local level, at our city level and throughout our city, we need to be paying attention to that. I'm not sure I answered your question. No, I think you did. 00;22;06;09 - 00;22;14;29 Unknown But a multi-sector plan on aging. So aging is not focus specifically on aging. Aging has an aging a quality to it. 00;22;15;01 - 00;22;33;14 Unknown And fighting ageism is something that we need to be. You guys are doing it every day with what you're doing. It's reimagining aging. It's redefining aging. It's making aging. I mean, I like to say people people say they want they want to grow old, but they're afraid of being old. 00;22;33;21 - 00;22;40;19 Unknown we need to think about how and and dying old doesn't mean we're skydiving or climbing mountains. 00;22;40;22 - 00;23;08;07 Unknown It means being respected for who we are and where we are now in our lives with the with the multi-sector plan. Are there ways that so ordinary citizens can be involved in in the implementation? Yes. Go go to engaging, engaging Illinois. And I want to be sure that it's, I believe it's Dot. But, it. 00;23;08;09 - 00;23;31;13 Unknown Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's done. Okay. But engaging Illinois and know. Yes. And, and there are lots and lots of committees that people can join and, and just aid in that or, and they can comment on it. The plan is right there. You can read the plan and provide input to the plan. Thank you. The other area too. 00;23;31;18 - 00;23;57;17 Unknown Each year I mentioned the Older Americans Act. Each year all of our departments on aging are, in these 13 various agencies on aging and the areas issues, area agencies on aging throughout the country have to submit a plan. And right now those plans are public and people can comment on them. So those are also available for people. 00;23;57;18 - 00;24;06;27 Unknown So at the policy level, look at those plans. So those plans are the policies that guide some of the things that are important to us. 00;24;07;04 - 00;24;24;01 Unknown Very interesting. Yes. Okay. And and this award that you received, the lifetime achievement award. So tell us about that. Oh my goodness, that was a wonderful surprise. 00;24;24;07 - 00;24;28;03 Unknown Wonderful colleague of mine, Robin Golden, submitted my name. 00;24;28;06 - 00;24;50;23 Unknown to, nest of the International Association of Social Workers. I'm a social worker. I probably got my degree from what was then, University of Chicago School. At that time, it was the School of Social Service Administration. Now it's the Crown School of Social Work policy, practice, and, policy practice and administration, I guess. 00;24;50;26 - 00;24;59;24 Unknown And, I'm glad they finally have social work in the title of the school. It's a good thing. Anyway, my name was put forward, I 00;24;59;29 - 00;25;13;06 Unknown was amazed and got the award from Illinois. And then you automatically get submitted for the national award. So there I was in Washington, and we invited our three children. 00;25;13;08 - 00;25;18;21 Unknown And I have I have five grandchildren, two of whom, were young 00;25;18;25 - 00;25;49;12 Unknown girls. So my granddaughters and my children came and we and I got that award and, Janja Koski very generously got a put into the Congressional Record. So it was exciting. And I do have to say that this year, my very good friend, Andy title and I submitted our good friend Derby More Heart for that award, and she got the Illinois Award and the National award. 00;25;49;12 - 00;26;11;00 Unknown We just found out last week. So it's. Yeah. It's it. I think one of the most gratifying things about being in this field are the amazing people I've been able to meet, including you. Who are who are working, in this, in this area. I it's 00;26;11;00 - 00;26;21;05 Unknown it's just been a joy of my life, and, and I and I do have to say, sharing all this with my family is and also 00;26;21;11 - 00;26;22;19 Unknown very important to me. 00;26;22;22 - 00;26;54;23 Unknown I want to ask you another question and that it is. So when we were coming of age, there were a few professions that we were sort of moved into, right? Teaching social work. Nursing. And and so I want to know, I think that it's important that our reader, that our listeners know is is social work today as important. 00;26;54;26 - 00;27;01;13 Unknown And is it something that young women or young men should think about going into, and why? 00;27;01;18 - 00;27;02;27 Unknown I have to tell you, 00;27;02;29 - 00;27;20;11 Unknown I kicked social work because I wasn't sure what area I wanted to be in. I wasn't I wasn't sure if I wanted to be clinical or organizing or interested in policy, and I could not have picked a better profession. 00;27;20;13 - 00;27;39;05 Unknown It has given me the platform to understand from a, from a sociological point of view, how society works, and then also some of the organizing skills that, that have been of great benefit to me. I just think that social work, 00;27;39;08 - 00;27;43;08 Unknown you know, it's one of those quiet professions. It's 00;27;43;08 - 00;27;50;17 Unknown feminized, but I happen I just think it gives people, a tremendous 00;27;50;20 - 00;27;54;13 Unknown background and understanding of how 00;27;54;16 - 00;28;05;12 Unknown people understand the world, how people relate to the world, and how, again, how policy can impact how we live our day to day lives. 00;28;05;15 - 00;28;11;18 Unknown So I, I just, I, and I do proudly have to say that, 00;28;11;21 - 00;28;23;24 Unknown one of my granddaughters has been talking about possibly going into international social work, interested in immigration and those kinds of issues. So 00;28;23;27 - 00;28;25;04 Unknown yeah, it's brought 00;28;25;04 - 00;28;33;02 Unknown I'm, I'm grateful for the education that I received, for the, and for the whole institution of social work. 00;28;33;05 - 00;28;39;18 Unknown I just think it plays a huge it makes a huge contribution to our society. 00;28;39;26 - 00;28;55;24 Unknown I did take some courses in law and in public policy thinking. Do I want to become a lawyer? Do I want to do it? But I, I work with lawyers. Lawyer lawyers are wonderful, and they're wonderful advocates and they're wonderful people. 00;28;56;00 - 00;29;05;09 Unknown But with social work, you kind of I mean, the multi-sector plan is perfect for social because you, you, you can operate in so many different places. 00;29;05;12 - 00;29;18;28 Unknown So our last question that we ask all of our guests, and you've pretty well given us the answer to this, but I'd like to see if you have any other aspects of it you want to discuss. 00;29;18;28 - 00;29;51;26 Unknown And that is, what do you think about your own aging? You're asking the very interesting point. I'm 84 and as I mentioned there are phases in aging and 84 is different than 75. Well kind of moving into that area where I can anticipate that I'm, I'm not going to get stronger. I have to maintain what I have. 00;29;51;28 - 00;30;18;08 Unknown But even that may not be enough. Who knows intellectually where that's going to go and what kind of planning do I need to do for that? And what kind of resources then, again, the multi-sector plan keeps on connecting mind, but what kinds of what what kinds of options are out there for me? I'm I'm fortunate to still have my husband. 00;30;18;10 - 00;30;50;19 Unknown For both of us and, Yeah, for for my own aging. It's maintaining relationships, maintaining relationships with my my wonderful family, with my friends. And and again, I think we were talking before we started a little bit about losing friends. I've lost, like, closest friends from earlier in my life, but maintaining new friendships and new in the village, of course, helps, helps enormously with that kind of thing. 00;30;50;21 - 00;31;18;17 Unknown So I, I mean, I, I have a list on my refrigerator that Michael and I keep on adding to of how do we grow old gracefully and we've got this wonderful long list of things. I've sort of prodded in here with me to read it off, but, but I but I think about those things and, and kind of I, you know, wisdom is always, you know, one of the things that people talk about wisdom, wisdom like that to me, wisdom. 00;31;18;17 - 00;31;46;21 Unknown And it's more about perspective, the fact that we have perspective and that we can, as long as we don't say we've always done things that way. But this was the experience that I had when we did this, that you might learn from as you move forward in, in, in developing programs, etc.. The curiosity is the one that I just love and, and continuing to be curious about the world around us and what's going to be happening next. 00;31;46;24 - 00;32;20;28 Unknown I don't know. So so, a roundabout answer, and I didn't mention the fact that I, you mentioned, that the the work that we did with the Chicago Sister Cities, that's an exchange that we've been having for the last 11 years now with colleagues from Shanghai. And their population is growing and faster than ours is. And they've been very curious and have actually I mean, they they take ideas and they, culturally adapt them to their programs for aging. 00;32;21;03 - 00;32;46;29 Unknown So they'll be bringing a delegation in, here in September that I was just there in last November, talking about aging issues and, you know, thinking about my own aging. I was thinking, Amy, that's probably the last time I'll be able to make that trip. It's it. It was very wearing. I was actually a little bit frightened about it. 00;32;47;02 - 00;33;19;27 Unknown It worked up beautifully. Perfectly. But two years from now, four years from now, I don't know if I'll be able to do that, but welcome in here. We we will absolutely do that. But, Catherine, anything. Any other questions? Yes. Ton. But. So then summer flood, it's just that, Yeah. It's just it's just fascinating. I really happy to have you on this program and our podcast. 00;33;19;27 - 00;33;48;05 Unknown Thank you. And, thank listeners. Listeners, make your voice heard as together we change the conversation about women aging, explore women over 70.com and join us at Aging Reimagined circle. And we women over 70 are part of the Age wise collective. It's a group of other women podcasters who are promoting, the voices of older women through our podcasts. 00;33;48;07 - 00;34;12;29 Unknown And so we want to acknowledge Jane Leader, who, as host of Older Women and friends stories of aging. Well. And this is a podcast that, as she says, dispels myths, explores the many contributions older women make. And she says, older women know a thing or two about living with a keen sense of wonder and an abiding appreciation for the gift to longevity. 00;34;13;02 - 00;34;20;01 Unknown So it's the second wave of the journey has just begun. So that's Jane Leder, Older women and Friends stories of aging well.