00:00:11:21 - 00:00:42:16 Unknown I am Catherine and I'm Gail. And welcome to women over 70. Aging reimagined the 2025 Astra Award winning weekly podcast, which is dedicated to women 70 to 110 who are rewriting the script on aging. The personal journeys, you'll hear affirm that older women live vital and engaged lives full of courage, contribution and creativity. Women over 70 is more than a podcast. 00:00:42:16 - 00:00:54:08 Unknown Check out our monthly Aging Reimagined Circle membership program, which meets monthly, online and a special thanks to our sponsor, Plymouth Place. 00:00:54:10 - 00:01:03:21 Unknown In Lagrange Park, Illinois, where senior living is redefined with options and opportunities to fit individual needs and preferences. 00:01:03:23 - 00:01:09:14 Unknown And today, we're delighted to be talking with Marianne, all the issues she's contributing to our 00:01:09:14 - 00:01:11:17 Unknown advocate for Women Aging series. 00:01:11:19 - 00:01:53:09 Unknown So welcome. Marianne, 78, has spent the last 20 years in all discovery about aging after an acting career alongside Deloris Christy, Allen Jean smart, to name a few. In the 1980s, she was a daytime TV trailblazer, becoming one of the first and still few African American soap opera heroines with long running roles on The Edge of Night, Guiding Light, Sunset Beach, and Along the way, Marianne became a certified hypnotherapist and NLP practitioner that's neuro linguistic programing, which has deepened her command of language and psychology. 00:01:53:11 - 00:02:20:17 Unknown And today, under the banner of Aging Shamelessly, Marianne blazes a new trail as she calls herself an age faux evangelist who prosecutes ageism, exploring the modern older woman through story, through acting, speaking and writing, and always in the process of designing her life, she declares, I am not an older version of myself. I'm the newest model. Welcome, Marianne. 00:02:20:17 - 00:02:38:17 Unknown We're so happy to have you with us. Oh, I'm. I'm happy to be here. But, Gail, I want to say one thing. You said the podcast is for women 70 to 110. I think you're going to have to make it to 120. Okay. Then we will expand our age range. There you go. All right. 00:02:38:19 - 00:02:48:04 Unknown Marianne, I do. I really would like to have you start open with with sharing your age for manifesto. Oh, okay. To do that. I certainly will. 00:02:48:06 - 00:03:09:21 Unknown I am quite done with my energy and appearance attributed to being youthful. Why should youth get all the good press? If anything, my vibrancy and vitality is due to being age full for filling up my years with curiosity and passion and joy, and not just using them as markers to tick off the passage of time. 00:03:09:23 - 00:03:34:21 Unknown So what do you mean when you call yourself an age full evangelist and this notion of prosecuting ageism, those are okay as your phrases? Well, the character that I played on Edge of Night was a criminal defense attorney. And when I first came on at night, there were very few African-American professional characters in daytime television. 00:03:34:23 - 00:04:06:04 Unknown So I was an attorney then, and now I am prosecuting ageism in my older age. An activist is an activist, and we find where things are wrong and we try to write them. And I call myself an Aids ful evangelist because I just got so tired of people saying to me, oh, but you don't look your age. 00:04:06:06 - 00:04:14:09 Unknown You're so youthful. I know some pretty dull, boring young people. 00:04:14:11 - 00:04:34:09 Unknown So my energy and my curiosity for life have nothing to do with my age. They have to do with who I am innately as a person, and youth has nothing to do with it. So, So then that's why I say, why should youth get all the good press? 00:04:34:15 - 00:05:01:07 Unknown No. And and and also, you know, wisdom is attributed to older people. I know some pretty dumb old people, too. So, you know, we we toss these words around and we use them inappropriately, and we assign attributes to a certain time in our life, and it does not apply. But but we get as a practicing hypnotherapist, we hear this often enough. 00:05:01:09 - 00:05:27:09 Unknown We believe this. It sinks into our subconscious mind, becomes part of our belief system, and then we start to behave accordingly. So that's why I'm on a mission to change the paradigm on women and aging, both in what we see in film and television, what we see on screen and also in the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. 00:05:27:10 - 00:05:29:23 Unknown We just need to change the whole damn narrative. 00:05:30:00 - 00:05:34:03 Unknown Well said. So what? What drove you into, hypnotherapy? 00:05:34:05 - 00:05:56:03 Unknown I don't I don't know if I was driven or if I was chased. I in my much early to mid 50s, I had had a wonderful 30 year career, mostly on television, which is made a great living as an actor with no, support jobs, just exclusively as an actress. 00:05:56:05 - 00:06:18:24 Unknown And then suddenly, the casting director stopped calling. And that's because the casting directors knew I had been around for 30 years. So they did the math. They didn't care how I looked if like, oh, she's too old. And as, one of my agents said to me, well, you know, Marianne, you're used to playing the pretty girl. 00:06:19:00 - 00:06:43:19 Unknown What do we do with the pretty girl when she gets old? What does that mean? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And he suggested it got even stupider. He suggested that I gain 50 pounds so I could do more character work. I got, So, needless to say, I'm not with that aged anymore. And in fact, my manager is, Casey Newport. 00:06:43:19 - 00:06:56:19 Unknown She's in her 40s, and I was working with an actor friend, and he said, I think my manager would like you. He made the introduction, and she at 40, said, 00:06:56:21 - 00:07:05:09 Unknown she went to my IMDb page and she said, you can take down all of those reels that you have right now. She says people don't know how you can act. 00:07:05:12 - 00:07:23:18 Unknown She said you have a career. They can look at your IMDb page and say, she's got credits, she can act, she said. But what I'm interested in, she said, what my generation is interested in is in what you have to say. Your authenticity, because you are who we want to be when we grow up. 00:07:23:20 - 00:07:45:09 Unknown How is she helped you promote yourself or, represent yourself? I well, when she took my some of my TV reels down, she's at it. Put some of my stand up comedy up there. Some things for my solo show, which I'm not playing a character. 00:07:45:09 - 00:07:53:15 Unknown I'm basically playing myself. And, she. I think she made me 00:07:53:17 - 00:08:16:15 Unknown feel braver about presenting myself and being myself. I had already taken a stand for turning down roles where I thought older people were being denigrated, where we were being made the butt of a joke, and I said, I'm not going to do that. I just that's not funny to me. 00:08:16:15 - 00:08:40:12 Unknown I won't do it. Which meant I turned down a lot of things. Am I going to tell you there are some things I will look at the script, and I would think, no. And which is why I became a hypnotherapist, because I had a friend who was a hypnotherapist. I went to a, a workshop open house with her at the Hypnosis Motivation Institute in Tarzana, California. 00:08:40:14 - 00:09:30:24 Unknown And I thought everything that they were saying makes sense about the subconscious mind. I had to make a living. I think actors are naturally curious about human motivation and behavior. I became a hypnotherapist and started working with women who were my age. They lived in the Encino Tarzana area around the school. When I was doing my, residency there and no matter what their ethnicity, what their, socioeconomic status was, these women who were for the most part in their late 40s, early 50s, there is a through line of midlife depression among all of them. 00:09:31:01 - 00:09:56:07 Unknown And that's when I realized that my job wasn't to hypnotize them, but to snap them out of the trance of internalized ageism that we as a culture have all bought into. It's starting to change, and I think it's starting to change because the baby boomers are still around. And now Gen X, my sons generation, they're now in their 50s and 60s. 00:09:56:07 - 00:10:27:19 Unknown They're going like, wait a minute, wait a minute. There's just too many of us now. Attention must be paid. And I think that's part of the change. There's power in numbers. No that's great. And then how does how does neuro linguistic programing fit into this picture of, of language and consciousness okay. Well language is very important. The way we language things the way we talk to ourselves. 00:10:27:21 - 00:10:54:13 Unknown When people say oh I'm having a senior moment. Wait a minute. We have to become consciously aware of the words that we're using to describe ourselves, to describe our actions, our, our appearance. It's it's language is so important. I mean, that's it. And we have to be very careful about I when I word with Della Reese. 00:10:54:15 - 00:11:30:14 Unknown Della was a unity minister, so she was a little metaphysical, a little woowoo. And she used to say, be careful about what you're thinking about when you're not thinking about what you're thinking about. Because these little snippets of things can come pass by our consciousness. We're not paying attention. And they drop down in it like we can be having a perfectly fine, wonderful day, and then a friend can say, oh, I'm feeling so old today. 00:11:30:14 - 00:11:59:02 Unknown Today is so bad. And they're just. And then before you know it, your day sucks because you're listening to them and you're not blocking what it is that you're saying. So we have to, be conscious and aware because the subconscious mind doesn't get the joke. The subconscious mind doesn't get irony, doesn't get sarcasm. It is very literal and it is listening all the time. 00:11:59:08 - 00:12:24:12 Unknown So I'm very, very careful about, and if I catch myself saying like, oh, I feel so. Oh, wait a minute, Marianne. Nope. And that's how I, in fact, my very first solo show I did at the Hypnosis Motivation Institute and it was called Snap Out of It. You've only been hypnotized into believing you're over the hill. 00:12:24:14 - 00:12:53:15 Unknown Good title. Yeah. Isn't that the title of a book that you're working on also? Yep. It is. It's the working title you know, when publishers get Ahold of it, it might change, but I still. I think it's a damn good title. Because we were. We are all in that, in that trance. I think we're starting to come out of it, but there's things are getting better, but there's still more work that needs to be done. 00:12:53:17 - 00:13:22:15 Unknown And so in your stand up comedy work are you is aging a topic. Do you talk about your, your own journey aging. What is does is aging part of the topic of what you talk about. Sometimes. Yeah. It is. But I don't do it in a self-deprecating way. But I celebrate getting older. You know, I celebrate some of the things I talk about. 00:13:22:15 - 00:13:57:00 Unknown I talk about some women who were the mothers of friends of mine, for example, who when I was in my 60s and they were in their 80s, were role models for me. And these were some feisty broads. I mean, working with Della Reese, she was a feisty, broad and very sexy and very age full, full of life. They didn't, you know, when I'll go back to what you mentioned before about, the difference between age full and age less. 00:13:57:02 - 00:14:28:19 Unknown Why do you want to detract your years age less? Think about it. Talking about NLP, age less. Know or like anti-aging? Well, if you're not aging, you're dead and we're not paying you. You said when we're not paying attention to these things and we think, well, anti-aging, that's good. The subconscious mind doesn't get that. If they say, oh, well, you want out of here, I can do that for you. 00:14:28:21 - 00:14:58:22 Unknown No, I, I, I celebrate getting older. I talk about, I talk about sex, I talk about relationships, I talk about my son. Who went gray before I did? As a matter of fact, I, when I had the new headshots done yesterday, said, because this is relatively new for me, I started letting my, my hair go gray 18 months ago. 00:14:58:24 - 00:15:08:13 Unknown And so I told my son yesterday, I said, well, now, Christopher, I am now officially a silver fox. And he said, welcome to the club, mom. 00:15:08:15 - 00:15:34:12 Unknown It doesn't matter your age, doesn't matter your age, is it? And it's really is. And you know something? I feel it's talking about authenticity. I feel more authentically me because I've stopped coloring my hair them. I, I we can forget about the fox part. I just love the fact that this is this is me. This is my hair. 00:15:34:15 - 00:15:56:12 Unknown My hair is thinner than it was before when I was younger. But it's it's it's my hair. It's representative of who I am. And, you know, when people talk about, well, you're going gray, you're letting yourself go, and I go, like, going where? I don't go to the gym. I go to the, you know, I go places, but I'm not letting myself go. 00:15:56:13 - 00:16:17:03 Unknown This is a choice, right? Other women want to make the choice to color their hair, and it makes them feel good. Go ahead, do it. I mean, people go to the beauty shop. They don't go to the ugly shop. If I'm right. And I always say that vanity is my friend, I'm not. Do I want to look good? 00:16:17:04 - 00:16:20:08 Unknown Absolutely. Do I want to look younger? No. 00:16:20:10 - 00:16:42:24 Unknown So aging shamelessly is, as I understand it. So the umbrella for a lot of things that you you do within that. So help just educate our, our listeners about what aging shamelessly is, what that covers, okay. It all stems from the internalized ageism that I realized when I became a hypnotherapist. 00:16:43:01 - 00:17:02:15 Unknown There is a lot of shame associated with getting older. Women tend to lie about their age. Or you'd say you don't ask a woman her age as if it was some dirty little secret. 00:17:02:16 - 00:17:13:04 Unknown what's wrong with telling your age? I take pride in the fact. Because for one thing, not everybody gets to be old. 00:17:13:06 - 00:17:14:24 Unknown It's a gift. 00:17:15:00 - 00:17:30:15 Unknown are we going to just waste that gift on feeling bad about being older? No. I think we should use the time wisely. And by wisely, I mean with curiosity, with enjoyment. I mean for some people, 00:17:30:16 - 00:17:31:22 Unknown put off 00:17:31:24 - 00:17:41:24 Unknown doing the things that they really wanted to do because they felt it was impractical. You know, when they were young, they listened to their parents, they followed the rules. 00:17:41:24 - 00:17:49:24 Unknown They did what they thought they were supposed to do as opposed to following their heart. Some people, when they get to, 00:17:50:01 - 00:17:57:17 Unknown I hate to use that word, retirement. So I'll just say retirement age because I don't think there's any need to retire. They won't. But when they get to that age, 00:17:57:23 - 00:17:59:10 Unknown they're still going to live a long life. 00:17:59:10 - 00:18:19:04 Unknown They still have an opportunity to pursue those dreams. And they can say, oh, I'm too old to do that now. No, no, you're never too old to try it, you know, if you wanted to do it. But you can't probably be a major League Baseball player. But you know, for the most part, there are things that you can do and you should try it. 00:18:19:06 - 00:18:21:13 Unknown And then again, there are people who. 00:18:21:15 - 00:18:29:17 Unknown Follow their passions like me as an actress, I followed my, my, my dream. And then all of a sudden I was aged out. 00:18:29:19 - 00:18:35:04 Unknown Oh it's like I'm going to go into I am continuing my dream. I 00:18:35:08 - 00:18:44:10 Unknown started doing solo shows and sketch comedy and standup and became pro age speaker on the, on the speaker circuit. 00:18:44:12 - 00:19:05:15 Unknown And now, interestingly enough, the culture has caught up with where I was 20 years ago as a pro age activist. Now, there are so many of us out here, you know, carrying that banner of yes, like you ladies. I mean, with your podcast, you know, it's I want to ask you what made you decide to do your podcast. 00:19:05:17 - 00:19:25:21 Unknown look at this. I mean, we're here, we're celebrating our life. We're we're trying to spread the word. You know, that's why I am an evangelist. We are all evangelist. Gail Catherine, you are evangelist. You might not have been calling yourself that, but you are. So do you mind if we if we adopt that as well? 00:19:25:21 - 00:19:36:05 Unknown Sure. It's a it is I, I have not trademarked it. It is, it is, it is a descriptor. Yes. You are a pro evangelist. 00:19:36:07 - 00:19:42:21 Unknown We're going to use it. Yes, definitely. We are stronger more than advocate. I like the ring up. 00:19:42:23 - 00:19:57:16 Unknown You talk about your, your. Oh, always in the process of designing your life and that you're who you are. This is me, the newest model. And so what else are you involved in that we haven't talked about yet? 00:19:57:18 - 00:19:59:14 Unknown I am 00:19:59:16 - 00:20:11:18 Unknown I think I've always been as an actor. I've relied on my intellect. You know, my brain works well and have relied on it. Even as an actor. I have operated from the top down. 00:20:11:20 - 00:20:15:24 Unknown Now, as I've gotten older, I'm operating from the inside out. 00:20:16:01 - 00:20:21:23 Unknown I'm honoring my intuition. I'm honoring my, 00:20:22:03 - 00:20:24:02 Unknown following my 00:20:24:05 - 00:20:27:00 Unknown curiosity and creativity and my joy. 00:20:27:02 - 00:20:29:18 Unknown And also when you get older, you realize 00:20:29:20 - 00:20:43:03 Unknown Where I devote my time and my energy is very limited. So I have to be much more selective about what I do. And sometimes I will do the things that I thought I should do ahead of the things that 00:20:43:05 - 00:20:50:09 Unknown I would prefer to be doing somehow, maybe thinking, well, that's just too frivolous now I eat dessert first. 00:20:50:11 - 00:21:14:01 Unknown Oh. Literally and metaphorically. Yep, yep. Eat my dessert first. For example, the the book that I'm writing. I'm actually writing three of them. They are all in various stages on my laptop, and I'm thinking, oh, I've got to get that book. I got to get that am I would make it a should. 00:21:14:03 - 00:21:16:11 Unknown And then I forget something happened. 00:21:16:13 - 00:21:33:19 Unknown I decided to enroll in an acting class, and it's online. The students, the teachers in Los Angeles, the students are in from New Zealand to Ireland. All across the the world. 00:21:33:21 - 00:22:09:17 Unknown the teacher even said, well, why are you here, Marianne? Obviously you don't need to learn how to act. I said, no, but it's like going to the gym. My spirit, the part of me that does act needs a workout. And it wanted to do that. Now, that took time away from the writing. But then I did a little meditation and my spirit said to me, but the books that you're writing. 00:22:09:19 - 00:22:22:12 Unknown You can't write those books now because there's more of your life that you have to live to put into those books. It's too soon. They will find their time, but there's more that you have to live to put in them. So I am honoring that. 00:22:22:16 - 00:22:28:18 Unknown and I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's happening, but I'm feeling I'm feeling really good. 00:22:28:18 - 00:23:01:13 Unknown My my manager is excited. At the age of 74, I got my first lead role in a movie. That's great. And and it premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. Oh. What's that? It. It's called spawns. It's all. It's on. Apple plus right now it's on Apple Plus and Amazon Prime. But how that came about was when we had the pandemic, there was an app called an audio app called clubhouse. 00:23:01:15 - 00:23:32:03 Unknown I would go on clubhouse and I would say to these young, writers and producers and directors, I took a little of my spiel from my Ted for my Ted talk. I said. According to a 2017 Federal Reserve survey on consumer finances, women over the age of 50 on 70% of the wealth in this country. So when you do not include a nuanced, interesting, a fabulous older female character in your scripts, you're leaving money on the table. 00:23:32:05 - 00:23:55:22 Unknown A young director producer heard me her name is to make a Briscoe. And she said, I heard you. She said, I'm 45. And she said, And I'm starting to face ageism now, and I want to have I want to be have a great life when I get to be your age. So let's work on this. And she wrote this movie, typically with me in mind. 00:23:55:24 - 00:24:25:07 Unknown Wow. Wonderful. Amazon Prime or app or Apple plus. Apple plus. Yeah. And keep in mind I had done lead roles in television but I had and supporting roles in movies. But I'd never had. My first leading role in a movie was at the age of 74. So the proof isn't in the pudding, I tell you that you can, that dreams never die and you can still have your wildest dream. 00:24:25:13 - 00:24:35:12 Unknown It's, at 74, and I'm expecting it to get wild or yet. So let's see what happens. 00:24:35:14 - 00:24:45:11 Unknown So, scale. Do you have any other questions or. Well, I'm just I'm just listening to you, Marianne. And I'm thinking, 00:24:45:13 - 00:25:01:02 Unknown were you like this as a child? Were you always like this, excited and interested in life and and wanting to do more and and be in the limelight and express yourself? 00:25:01:04 - 00:25:29:05 Unknown Yes. And it got me into trouble with the cash. I was always told I was too much. Sit down. Why do you always have to be so dramatic? So. And I went to Catholic school. I'm, you know, and so I thought, well, what is wrong with me? Am I an exhibitionist? I tried to for a long time. 00:25:29:05 - 00:26:01:21 Unknown I tried to cure myself of being that the person that I am or. But when I went to college, I discovered Carl Young. And, the more I learned about young and I looked, I thought, well, I am genetically predisposed to be who I am, who I am innately. These are my gifts and talents and abilities. What do you do with that other than become an actor, you know, so, so when I discovered young, I thought, you know what, I. 00:26:01:23 - 00:26:16:02 Unknown I make no apologies now for who I am. And then I, I got in the theater department, I moved to New York, and then I found my tribe. I found a whole bunch of people who were just like me. And we were all actors. I thought, oh, my people. 00:26:16:04 - 00:26:16:17 Unknown Very good. 00:26:16:17 - 00:26:44:03 Unknown A lot of you are a part of our tribe, too, Maria. Yes. Yes, you fit us well. It took a lot of it. Took some some curiosity and balls to start your podcast. So, yeah, you are evangelists. And you are. We are. We are tribal sisters. Indeed. Correct? Yes. Grow our tribe. Thank you so much, Marianne. By your tribe. 00:26:44:04 - 00:27:08:16 Unknown I know you do remember that MLP. Yeah. You can't. Just one is listening. You don't try, you do Gail too. Yes, yes. We are part of the same tribe. Yes, ma'am. There you go. Right. All right. Omarion, thank you so much. This is just spent a light full, and, I look forward to seeing you and your other performances. 00:27:08:18 - 00:27:42:23 Unknown Well, well, thank you for having me. And, Oh, I should plug. I'm on this, streaming soap opera called the Bay. And, so let me give that a plug. And it is streaming right now on Amazon Prime. The first nine, seasons I, I don't appear until season eight, but, it's it's a great show. And, and I'm having a great time, and I'm working Diana Ross daughter, Rhonda, plays my daughter. 00:27:43:00 - 00:28:13:20 Unknown And my very first film role was The Wiz, in which I worked with Diana Ross. So full circle. Right? That's exciting. Thank you so much. We'll be sure to include all of that in our new release. Your episode two. Thank you again, Marianne. You're just, delightful. Thank you for having me. And listeners, thank you for listening. Do women over 70, your loyalty helps our community thrive. 00:28:13:20 - 00:28:30:10 Unknown And we invite you to get more involved by joining our aging Reimagined Circle and your voice as we challenge myths and create bold new narratives about women and aging. Visit women over 70.com to learn more. 00:28:30:12 - 00:28:44:12 Unknown And we are also part and proud to be a member of The Age Wise Collective, a group of women podcasters who champion pro aging voices. 00:28:44:14 - 00:29:09:07 Unknown And this week, we shine the light and award winning author Jane Leader and her guests, who take a deep dive into the joys and challenges of being an older woman, older women and Friends. Stories of Aging Well is a podcast that sets the record straight. It dispels myths and explores the many contributions that older women make. And thank you for listening. 00:29:09:07 - 00:29:10:15 Unknown We'll see you next time.