00:00:11:18 - 00:00:12:17 Unknown Hi, I'm Gayle. 00:00:12:19 - 00:00:38:14 Unknown And I am Catherine. Welcome to women over 70. Aging reimagined. Our award winning weekly podcast. Now in its sixth year, visit women over 70.com to explore our offerings and join the Aging Reimagined Circle, our free online community where women of all ages connect, share and re-imagine aging as a time of creativity, growth, and empowerment. And we're glad you're with us. 00:00:38:16 - 00:01:07:13 Unknown And today we're glad to have in the studio Diane Hiller, 82, who has received wonderful recognition for her new book, A Widow's Fire An Intimate Memoir of Heartbreak, survival and Moving On. One reader summed it up perfectly. Diane gives us permission to find our way forward after the darkest days, to stay true to ourselves even when others unfairly judge us. 00:01:07:15 - 00:01:33:12 Unknown It offers comfort and courage to anyone navigating loss, change, or a new beginning. Earlier in life, Diane was a top real estate agent and one of the first three women invited to join her local Kiwanis club. She expressed creativity in so many different forms. And Diane, we are so happy to welcome you today to women over 70 Aging Reimagined. 00:01:33:14 - 00:02:02:02 Unknown Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Good, good. So let's start learning more about your journey from a 30 year old woman to today, a span of 50 years. Tell us a little bit about what your life during those decades. You know, I know you start at a young age to be a journal writer and to reflect on each day and give voice to your feelings and very often through poetry. 00:02:02:04 - 00:02:36:08 Unknown So maybe you'll read us a poem and tell us more about all the ways you experienced creative expression, and we happy to. I think I was fortunate that I had a mother who was creative and, you you follow her lead. At least I did. And it came naturally to me to, to sketch pictures, drop a particularly and our with that and that she was an avid reader. 00:02:36:10 - 00:03:14:14 Unknown She had read every book in the library at one time in our small town. So I'm an avid reader. And that led to writing, the poetry just always was there just flowed whenever, I had the desire to do so there. But art probably was my strongest asset. I did a lot of stage sets when the school was having a play or, well, bulletin board needed, some artwork. 00:03:14:14 - 00:03:50:05 Unknown I was called upon. Hey, do something, up there to make it look prettier. So that was the beginning of being artistic. I started, oils. I just when my youngest child was born, someone drag me to an art class, said, you're so good. Why don't you. I oils, and, she literally took me to her art class, so I started painting, rates of oil, in my 30s. 00:03:50:07 - 00:04:16:21 Unknown And I still do to this day. I love the smell of the oils and, getting my my fingers into the oils. Not deliberately, but always happy there. It's all over me. My poor artist ever up sure is terrible looking, but it's very effective. Helps a lot. Always been creative in one way or the other. Yes. 00:04:17:00 - 00:04:57:01 Unknown And so, when did you know you wanted to write a memoir? I had never thought about, you know, I had thought about writing a book. But I'm such an impatient person. I always thought, well, I don't think I have the patience to write one, but, I have always journaled. And during my husband's illness, I wrote in a daily keeping up with how he was feeling, what what the doctors did, keeping notes for the doctor so I could report on him, but also to keep track of where we were in in this process. 00:04:57:01 - 00:05:26:16 Unknown Ball dying. He was given 4 to 6 months to live. And the doctor did say with with medication, possibly 20 months. And he did make that 20 month period, but it was helpful to have, my notes with me. So when his best friend, or one of his best friends, I should say, read a poem that I had written and put on the back of a prayer card at the funeral. 00:05:26:18 - 00:05:52:03 Unknown He called me and he said, did you write that poem? And I said, I did. And he said, well, do you have any more? And I said, I have lots more. And he said, send me some. I, I share them with, my editor. And he had written seven books on medical, issues. And it was Greg Lawrence who worked with Jackie Onassis. 00:05:52:03 - 00:06:15:14 Unknown And I said, I'm not in his late. And he said, no, I, I, I think you might be. And so I sent him poetry and he said, you need a back story. Well, I went to bed that night thinking, well, I've got the back story. I've got my whole life back story. B what's that? So I called him the next morning and I say I was awake all night long. 00:06:15:14 - 00:06:43:14 Unknown I got the best. And, he did it to me, and I did. And, I got a call from Greg, and he said, you have me on the second paragraph. And that was how I began to write a novel. And it was what? I enjoyed it. It took my mind off the grieving. Although I didn't tell Greg until almost the end of the book when we had been editing, editing, editing. 00:06:43:16 - 00:07:10:21 Unknown And I said, Greg, I have to confess, there were times it was so painful. I said, I, I could write the story, but then when I had to edit and review and relive all the pain two years, I said there were times I had to just put my head on my desk and cry. But I didn't want to tell him that because I didn't want him to stop rushing me and do. 00:07:10:21 - 00:07:35:04 Unknown If I if you stop pushing me, the book would just lag there. I wanted to go forward, but it's. Was there a book before a widow's fire? No, this is this is it. This is it. And I've been asked by several people, even Greg. He said, don't you think you have a second book in your hand? I really don't think I do. 00:07:35:06 - 00:07:59:17 Unknown People have to ask. Well, what what is your purpose for the book? That request with that. What is it you're wanting out of this book? Is it money? Do you want to sell books? What? What is your goal? And I said, I just hope that someone will pick the book chapters in pain and read it and feel better and understand what they're going through. 00:07:59:17 - 00:08:28:05 Unknown Because I wasn't really freaking read. I think I'm a smart woman. And I've been with people as they've died. People that I loved dearly. This was different. When your mate dies, it's like. Losing a part of your body. You. Your identity changes. People treat you differently. It's it's a new life. When you lose your part. 00:08:28:07 - 00:09:01:16 Unknown Wow. I just I was going to ask in the introduction about the. A reader said that it stayed true to ourselves even when others unfairly judge us. What kind of judgments did you encounter? Judgments. So easily from people who have not been there. I had two or so friends. Two friends during his dying process that he, in their desire to give me advice. 00:09:01:18 - 00:09:29:19 Unknown It turned me off. And basically they what they were saying was, oh, he's going to get over this. He's such a strong man. He he's going to whip this well. No, he we had a death sentence and we were marching quickly towards it. And then the judgment afterwards. When, for two months, a little over two months. 00:09:29:21 - 00:09:55:05 Unknown I did not want to be with anyone. I wanted to be alone. Everyone has to do it how they need to do it. For me, I did not want to cry in front of people. I needed to mourn alone. It was mine to embellish, to wallow in it. Cry when I wanted to cry. But I didn't want an audience and I didn't want anybody to tell me to pack up and get over it. 00:09:55:07 - 00:10:19:07 Unknown So I spent two and a half months pretty much by myself and one mountain house, and my children said, mom, we can be there with you, I think, no, I this is something I have to do by myself. And, I was very naive from the standpoint that I thought, well, I'll give myself a couple of good weeks for crying and and get passed this morning. 00:10:19:07 - 00:10:43:11 Unknown Well, joke was on me that it took a lot longer than two weeks. But two and a half months later, the man who had told me that I thought he thought I had a book in me called me and said, Diane, I hear you. You're you won't come out of the house. You won't see people. He said, get out of the damn house. 00:10:43:13 - 00:11:04:15 Unknown That is not what I wanted for you. Get out of the house! Well, my sister, who has a home on this thing mountain in North Carolina is me, said, come on, let's go to the country club and just kick rules. And I didn't want to go, but I thought, okay, I'm having paper, fake it out, so I will. 00:11:04:17 - 00:11:26:15 Unknown So I did I went with her to the country club on the way. I pray God if I can't have al back then me somebody like now will lo lower. Oh, we're at the country club. I had to buy King Tonic, which I am not a big stranger, and I hadn't been drinking for two months, but I had to board and tides. 00:11:26:15 - 00:11:48:03 Unknown My sister and I are just on the dance floor dancing like crazy. Nobody at the country club had ever seen me behave like this, and a brand walked up, tapped me on the shoulder and said, we'd like you to meet our best friend from 35 years ago from med school. And I turned around Chip Bob's hand and said, let's dance. 00:11:48:05 - 00:11:50:06 Unknown And we've been day since 00:11:50:08 - 00:11:53:14 Unknown Yeah. Several people say, I think you're moving too fast. 00:11:53:16 - 00:12:05:16 Unknown do you think I'm moving too fast? And she said, Diane, it's your age. Are you kidding me? Do you know how many women out there would love to be on their ships? She said, you're a smart woman. 00:12:05:16 - 00:12:19:14 Unknown You know what you're doing. So we've been together now for two years. Oh. That's wonderful. That's great. So it's once a divorcee, once a widow, and now a partner. 00:12:19:16 - 00:12:34:24 Unknown he's 82. I'm 82. We don't need marriage. We've been married. I jokingly said to him not too long ago, because he's been civil for 40 years. 00:12:35:01 - 00:12:45:03 Unknown I said, you've just fallen into this husband wife routine. It's like this. Everyone can have. 00:12:45:05 - 00:13:12:01 Unknown That's right. I'm happy for you. That's wonderful. Thank you. Very nice. So I went back to the book. Well, so tell us a little bit more about it. One. Take us through it a bit. Well, it was easy to write. Because it just came natural. Well, it's my life, so I lived it, so it wasn't like I had to do any research on me. 00:13:12:02 - 00:13:41:19 Unknown I kind of knew me. I, I think one of the really great compliments that I got was, my son in law. I had to wonderful son in law. But one of them, read, some some of the, book as as I was writing it, I sent him some paragraphs. Then he said, Diane, he said, you you write like each other. 00:13:41:21 - 00:14:02:13 Unknown He said, I could hear you through your words. And my daughter said, mom, we were so sure that the editor was probably doing a lot of the writing. Then when we read your book, we knew it was your. And I said, oh yeah. I said, he he put paragraphs in different places and moved them around. All the words are mine. 00:14:02:15 - 00:14:30:13 Unknown So how did these terms define you? First a divorcee, then a woman and a widow. Your step was a woman and, Yeah, yeah. Those two. How did those terms define you first as a divorcée? Well, I think the difference between being a divorcee and a widow. And I've shared this with you people when you were a divorcee. 00:14:30:15 - 00:14:55:15 Unknown People across the street keep talking to you because, people think it's contagious. It's going to happen to them. In fact, I had a friend tell me. She said the statistics are 1 in 3 people get divorced. I don't know if that's correct or not, but that's what she thought. And she said, and so we're we are three couples who've been very, very close. 00:14:55:17 - 00:15:22:21 Unknown And you're the first divorce. So I think I would now. Tell me about that logic. The so the difference between, divorce and being a widower. People don't want to talk to you when you're divorced, but when you're a widower, people bring casseroles and flowers. It's much nicer. It's is painful. But there are people treat widows much nicer than divorces. 00:15:22:23 - 00:15:29:03 Unknown And trust me, divorces are going through loss as well. Yes. Tell us a little bit more about that. 00:15:29:05 - 00:16:11:07 Unknown Well, when you divorce, you split everything down the middle or however, And you start all over and it's not easy. And you find you lose friends, but you also gain. I lost friends to my divorce. It was very disappointing because I thought, gracious, they they saw it coming. They seemed to approve of it. And yet once it was done, it literally they had, a dear friend say my husband is not comfortable being around you now that you're divorced, but I'd known since he was a go it. 00:16:11:09 - 00:16:18:13 Unknown I don't think he had the problem. I think she had the problem. But I did it. I. I didn't stay there. 00:16:18:15 - 00:16:45:21 Unknown Being a widower, though, people are kinder. But but when you lose friends, others step well and, I think it's the same with being a widower too. I say that you're like this book. There are different chapters. People come and go within the chapters, and you just have to keep accepting that life is change. 00:16:46:00 - 00:17:10:23 Unknown And if you don't change, as as life is changing, you just draw will die. You may not like it that you're dead in a certain way. That and you have to accept the fact that people come and go and in your lives. I think you think when you're young, we'll have this same friends forever. Some you do. 00:17:11:00 - 00:17:20:10 Unknown There's still friends that I had that I knew in the first grade. But then I have new friends all the time 00:17:20:12 - 00:17:41:12 Unknown as a divorcée. Did you find that your, that that you were no longer a couple? And was that did that affect you? Oh, it did, it really did. Because the couples that you had as friends, some of them are not comfortable with the fact that you were a single woman. 00:17:41:14 - 00:17:57:12 Unknown And yet I had two wonderful friends that I made through that time period and felt very comfortable calling me. I'd known them for a long time, but I wasn't close to them. They would call and say, we're having a dinner party. Would you join us? 00:17:57:14 - 00:18:06:22 Unknown My social life definitely did not. Bill. If anything, it was it was great. 00:18:06:24 - 00:18:20:23 Unknown It was just a different set of friends and did not feel threatened by a single woman in the crowd, and I. I think that says a lot for a married couple that they felt comfortable with me. 00:18:21:00 - 00:18:28:13 Unknown as a widow. You are also a single woman. It so did it. Did any of those friendship dynamics change. 00:18:28:15 - 00:18:53:23 Unknown Not really. I have a wonderful, network of wonderful friends. I jokingly call us Bedouins because we all have fans in Florida, and we all have homes up here in North Carolina. And I jokingly say, well, we packed up the camels and the chance that just moved to whichever state that we need at the time. But they've all been wonderful, very supportive. 00:18:54:00 - 00:18:57:10 Unknown And they're there for me. 00:18:57:16 - 00:19:08:05 Unknown I've driven crazy with this, but, they're probably so tired of me. They are also still rally me on. It's been fun. It's really fun. 00:19:08:07 - 00:19:15:21 Unknown What? So poetry played an important role in your life, and you include a lot of poems in your book? 00:19:15:23 - 00:19:19:24 Unknown And, would you like to read one of them to us and be happy to sing? 00:19:20:05 - 00:19:22:03 Unknown I will start out with, 00:19:22:03 - 00:19:26:19 Unknown one that I, that I wrote early in the morning process. 00:19:26:21 - 00:19:29:16 Unknown And poetry, I tell you, was pouring out of 00:19:29:18 - 00:19:43:03 Unknown my brain like crazy. I couldn't stop it. I would write it during the middle of the night. It would come to me and I go over and pick up my iPhone and and write the verse that was in my head at the time. 00:19:43:05 - 00:20:09:17 Unknown The name of this is the howl of death, was the first howl of death whistling through the winds in my mind. A twilight appointment with the first is from dead, a creature who walk the halls of my heart and eagerly announced that my true love was dying with the fear of his mortality and future unknown. The appearance of Gyp Lynch, the inner walls of my being. 00:20:09:19 - 00:20:35:24 Unknown Depths of becoming lost so unbearably painful as I experienced my first taste of anticipatory grief. It was boring to my taste. It was yet an unknown to me, where I knew not the hateful grip it was to have on me, and its need to consume all my strength, all who I am. Sapping all that was within, devouring my world and onto my knees. 00:20:35:24 - 00:21:06:01 Unknown This creature so feeble, servile and insatiable was it. I tried to maintain this sweet smile on my face, the resolute stance I took the ramrod straight stiff that her false reassurance that all would work out. I've got this, no worry. But the truth be told, all were not well. My love mate was dying. I was losing my hold on the one where mattered my to divorce. 00:21:06:03 - 00:21:12:14 Unknown The love of my life, my rock, my store. And then he died. And there would I, 00:21:12:16 - 00:21:41:19 Unknown That was in a lot of pain that I wrote that night. Very powerful, very powerful. And, as I had mentioned to you when I first opened your book and read some of the lines, that you were married for 25 years to this man whose name was al, and I had a second marriage to someone for 29 years, whose name was al, and I felt so much like you did. 00:21:41:19 - 00:22:03:16 Unknown I started to read and I thought I in this moment, this is how I feel, this is how it is. I can had so many people, and I'm so proud that a lot of them have been men who had sent me notes or come up to me and said, thank you. I needed to hear your words. They helped. 00:22:03:18 - 00:22:34:04 Unknown They've experienced the same. I had no idea what was going on when I experienced anticipatory grief. I didn't know why. I kept going on to the back porch away from my husband to cry. I just was in such terrible pain. And I finally, managed to get to a counselor. And she immediately said, what you're going through is anticipatory grief, and it's natural. 00:22:34:06 - 00:23:07:18 Unknown But I just didn't I didn't understand I'd never been through that deep of a Greek situation. Yeah. So so now that the book is out and you're having this new life with your new friend, how are you thinking about your own aging? Or are you? Well, I think you have to think about it because Lord knows, you you have aches and pains that you didn't have anywhere at 18 years old. 00:23:07:20 - 00:23:32:19 Unknown I don't move quite as quickly. I patter, partial knee replacement. And, I put surgery a year ago. That slows you down a little bit. You don't deal quite as quickly, but, I think I'm still pretty spry for my age. I don't even think of myself as being an 82 year old. I'm shocked. 00:23:32:21 - 00:23:42:24 Unknown I told my daughter last night she was here for dinner, and, I said, it's hard for me to believe that I have children old enough that are now buying retirement homes. 00:23:43:01 - 00:23:51:19 Unknown That is. I'm so curious about where you live in North Carolina. Which mountain? Oh, King mountain. It's, Highlands, North Carolina. 00:23:51:21 - 00:23:59:15 Unknown Are you familiar with that? I can picture you. Yeah, I can picture that because I had a good friend who lived at a home there for many, many years. 00:23:59:15 - 00:24:20:13 Unknown Yeah, I got to visit. Yeah. That's what happened to to my husband and I, we we had so many friends who lived up here who had homes. We'd come to their children's weddings or what have you. They lived in Florida but also had secondary phones out here. We kept coming up. And the next thing I know, we own a home here, and, I love it. 00:24:20:13 - 00:24:43:24 Unknown My children said, mom, we didn't think you'd ever lived anyplace but, Florida. Then they came up the first time we said, we get it as this icon is fabulous. And on The Gardener. I love to work out in the yard, and it's wonderful. That's nice. But would you stay home with another prong? Oh, they've happened to right. 00:24:44:01 - 00:25:13:06 Unknown A simple word, a mighty word, a word that is all inclusive yet sometimes elusive. A word that says it all. A word for joy. A word to turn my world around. Say the word to make me smile. Love. Nice. New to find out to close on. Thank you so much, Diane. This is just. My heart's sort of pounding a bit here. 00:25:13:08 - 00:25:41:18 Unknown It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much. Welcome. You're welcome. And, listeners, thanks for listening. To women over 70. Your loyalty helps our community thrive. And we invite you to get more involved with the aging reimagined circle and add your voice as we challenge myths and create bold new narratives about women and aging. So there's women over 70 that come to learn more, and women over 70 is proud to be part of the Age Wise collective. 00:25:41:18 - 00:26:08:21 Unknown It's a group of women podcasters championing pro aging voices. And this week, we shine the light on Sally Duplantier. She is the host of Wellness Wednesdays, and she provides free and recorded webinars that feature experts on topics about healthy aging. Sally is a gerontologist. Visit my zing life one word zing mazing live.com to learn more.