00:00:11:14 - 00:00:41:17 Unknown Hi, I'm Gail. And hi, I'm Katherine. Welcome to women over 70 agent reimagined. Our award winning weekly podcast. Visit women over 70.com and learn how you may become engaged with our community through aging reimagined circle. And we hope to see you at our next online monthly meeting. And we want to thank our sponsor, Production Plus. They are an expert in crafting visuals that not only attract attention, but also elevate every moment. 00:00:41:19 - 00:01:09:14 Unknown From custom printed graphics and scenic designs to event rentals and immersive add elements. They know how to make any event a visual masterpiece. And today we're happy to have with us Darlene Norman. Darlene is 71. She lives and works in the Chicago area. And for her entire life, she has believed the most important work and most impactful is being a mother. 00:01:09:16 - 00:01:33:18 Unknown Darlene was 36 years of age when her daughter was born. She had been married for eight years and was thrilled to learn she was pregnant. She already had a bonus son by her husband's first marriage, and when she became pregnant, she felt it was a blessing. Nothing short of amazing. Her brief moment. That dream was almost shattered when Darlene graduated from high school. 00:01:33:18 - 00:02:03:02 Unknown She spent it to become a pharmacist. Instead, she started working at the IRS in a typing pool. Eventually, she spent a two year period working for the Defense Department conducting audits. After retiring in 2009, Darlene began assisting her husband in a CPA practice and today continues to work with him two days a week. Active in her church and serving as a trustee, Dianne teaches children once a month. 00:02:03:04 - 00:02:18:09 Unknown She's also active in the women's ministry. Dianne also loves to travel and is okay with some downtime. It's a pleasure to welcome you to women over 70. Aging. Reimagined. Darlene. Thank you. Thank you. 00:02:18:09 - 00:02:29:13 Unknown when we spoke, you told me why your dream of being pregnant was almost shattered. Would you mind sharing that with us? Of course not. 00:02:30:03 - 00:02:53:11 Unknown So, as you said, I had been married for eight years when we decided to start a family. And you know, being accountants, we had our thoughts about when the baby should be born and the baby can't be born during the tax season. That would be too hectic. So we were trying to plan everything out. But of course, things don't always go according to your plan. 00:02:53:13 - 00:03:29:01 Unknown And, after several months, we weren't getting pregnant and, months turned into almost a year and the doctor was starting to get concerned about, you know, whether or not there was a problem. But at any rate, finally, after a year, I did get pregnant and the doctor was concerned. At the time I was 35. And the, the, some tests that she gave me some blood test showed a, result that suggested that the baby could have spinal bifida. 00:03:29:16 - 00:04:02:08 Unknown And so the doctor was very concerned about that and wanted me to have further testing, including an amniocentesis, which I was not willing to do. I did have a second blood test, an ultrasound. And I assured the doctor that I was doing that for her comfort because I felt like I had we had prayed for this baby, and we just believed that God would give us what we prayed for, and what he gave us would be our baby in whatever shape. 00:04:02:10 - 00:04:20:11 Unknown And so, I believed that the baby was going to be fine. And of course she was. But, the doctor was not very happy. And I, you know, I had to tell her that, you know, I trust you as my doctor, but really, my faith is in God. And so I'm not going to do any more testing. 00:04:20:13 - 00:04:50:17 Unknown We don't want to know the sex of the baby, so we don't need to have any further ultrasounds. And so we proceeded with the pregnancy and had a perfectly healthy baby. Thank goodness. Yes. That's good news. And I will add that, as when she gave me that news about the chance of spina bifida, I did a little research on my own and discovered that that particular test had a high rate of false positive results. 00:04:50:19 - 00:05:05:19 Unknown So I'm just saying that to say, you know, you have to be your own advocate, and it is important to kind of do a little investigating, not to that to, you know, undermine the doctor and her expertise and all of that. But, you know. Manage your own care. 00:05:05:19 - 00:05:09:02 Unknown You you also talk about your bonus son. 00:05:09:02 - 00:05:33:15 Unknown I love that that term. Yes I was. What does that mean. So when I, when I married I gained a son. So a he was seven years old I believe, when we got married. And, so he was, you know, during the years that I dated his father. I was always enamored with him as a little guy. 00:05:33:17 - 00:06:01:04 Unknown And, he he, when we had our daughter, he was thrilled to have a baby sister. So much so. And he lived with his mom and would spend weekends with us and, and summers. And so our daughter was born in June. So he was there when she was born, and he was very protective of her. He would let his friends come and look at her, but tell them they had to wash their hands first, and then they could look at her but couldn't touch her. 00:06:01:06 - 00:06:27:17 Unknown So he's very protective. Unfortunately, there's a 15 year difference, so they didn't really grow up together. You know, he went off to college and really never came back. So they have kind of a distant relationship. But yeah, he's he's, I, I don't like the term step. Gone step, mom. And so I call him my bonus set. 00:06:27:17 - 00:07:01:18 Unknown you told us that you had a stint with breast cancer, and it's. Both of us have had some interesting. Okay. And that scripture helped you come? So we also send you believe doctors and science are a gift from God. Absolutely. I believe that. And I think the older I get, and the more I'm acquainted with the illness, either for myself, for those around me, the more I realize what a blessing, medical science can be. 00:07:01:20 - 00:07:28:15 Unknown And I really believe that, you know, when you think about those who I say they're chosen for that field, those who pursue a field of medicine, you know, everyone can't make it in that field. I know of people who have started down that path and just didn't make it. Everybody doesn't have the aptitude. I don't think, for that kind of rigorous study, grueling. 00:07:28:17 - 00:07:49:17 Unknown And so those that do make it, I feel like they're chosen for it. And I feel like their ability to comprehend the complexities of the human body and the workings of it and all of that. I feel like those are gifts from God. To be able to have that intuition, that aptitude, that understanding. And so I am thankful for them. 00:07:49:17 - 00:08:12:16 Unknown And I, you know, being in a Christian setting, you know, you hear sometimes people say, well, I have faith in God and, you know, suggesting that they don't need doctors. And I responses. I have faith in God, and I have faith that God will equip the doctors to do what needs to be done to remedy whatever condition. 00:08:12:18 - 00:08:47:06 Unknown Yeah, they think, yeah, I'll said so. You you're you're how old were you when you had breast cancer? I was 67. So it's just been four year groups. And I was fortunate that it was a slow growing non aggressive form of breast cancer. There were two tumors. And so I did have a mastectomy. But I didn't it didn't. 00:08:47:08 - 00:09:17:20 Unknown There was no lymph node involved so I didn't have to have radiation or chemotherapy. So that was a fabulous one. Yes. Either. Wow. So you mentioned the scripture, that I kind of held on to. And it was scripture from the book of Philippians, and it says, basically, don't worry about anything. Pray about everything, right. Tell God what you need. 00:09:17:21 - 00:09:47:13 Unknown Thank him for what he's already done, and he will guard your heart with peace that passes all understanding. And I just feel like that. I mean, I really recited that scripture daily during that journey, and I really was at peace. I never really was afraid. It was hard to tell my daughter, you know, she was 31 and concerned about, you know, she has a friend who lost her mom to cancer. 00:09:47:15 - 00:10:08:22 Unknown And so, naturally, she was concerned. But, you know, I just told her this is a part of my life's journey. We're going to go through it together. And, you know, we'll be fine. And so I really was, And I can honestly say I felt I feel like the prayer was answered, that God really did give me peace throughout the journey. 00:10:08:22 - 00:10:38:10 Unknown And I really did not have a lot of worry and anxiety over it. I if you're a trustee with your church what is that involve? Well so in our church the name of the church is Apostolic Church of God. And so there's an official board that includes deacons and trustees. And so I have been the secretary of the board for a number of years. 00:10:38:10 - 00:11:12:24 Unknown In fact, thankfully, we just have a new, younger woman who is now the secretary. Yay! But it just means we are the people that the pastor entrusts. And we, he says that we are the eyes and ears of the congregation. It's a large church. And so, we are the people that he confides in. We sometimes advise him we are involved and decisions that are made for the, plans that the church has and that sort of thing. 00:11:13:24 - 00:12:01:24 Unknown Where is this church, darling? It's on the south side in the Woodlawn area. 63rd and Dorchester. And. Yeah, you. I know you believe in lifelong learning. Yeah. Yeah. How does that show up in your life? Well, I haven't taken taken any formal classes in a long time. But, you know, I read a lot, and I'm always interested in things that are going on around me and in the world, and, so I guess, it just shows up in what I, the things that I read, the, the things that I pay attention to, the things that I engage with. 00:12:03:17 - 00:12:23:18 Unknown Or is this for mainly for your own knowledge or your own. Yes. Expansion. Yes. Yeah. Not necessarily to solve a problem or to know. And then of course, you know being in the accounting field you do have to stay on top of changes and in the tax law and that sort of thing. So that's part of it too. 00:12:23:20 - 00:12:47:02 Unknown Yeah. Even though you have to be involved with all of that sort of thing, keep up to date. I mean, when you work for the IRS for a long time. Yes. And how did you get from wanting to be a pharmacist or asking for the IRS? So when I was in high school, I worked in the neighborhood drugstore. 00:12:47:04 - 00:13:07:02 Unknown And the owner of this drugstore was you know, a family friend. So, you know, he hired me when I was probably 16. And I worked as a cashier at the front counter, but then eventually he would have me working with him in the pharmacy, and I thought, well, and of course, he was encouraging me to pursue that field. 00:13:07:04 - 00:13:33:06 Unknown And I thought, well, I know how to fill a prescription. I can count the pills and put them in a bottle. And, you know, I type the label because back then we were literally typing the label and attacking it to the, to the little vials. So I thought it would be of interest, but I learned from having a summer internship, where I worked in a hospital and did some rotations, that the hospital pharmacy position was a very boring job. 00:13:33:06 - 00:13:59:19 Unknown You're just kind of in a windowless room and you're it's no interaction, hardly with people. And, and I already knew that I didn't want to do drugstore pharmacy because the hours are long. And so I just kind of lost interest in it as a profession. So I had gone to City College, right? Community college. And, so after completing two years, I didn't at that point, you know, what I wanted to pursue. 00:13:59:21 - 00:14:40:21 Unknown And the IRS was hiring typists, big groups and big groups at a time. And so my friend and I applied, and we both got hired in January of 1974. And I was 19 years old. And I started working in this typing pool and, you know, through over, over time, I did go back to school and pick up some accounting hours, and eventually a degree, and was able to advance within the IRS to various positions from being in the clerical position to a tax examiner to a tax auditor. 00:14:41:10 - 00:15:06:22 Unknown And then as I was finishing up my degree and sitting for the CPA exam, I was ready to move further. They weren't hiring. And that's when I went to the Defense Department for a couple of years. But I did come back to the IRS and ended my career there. So kind of a circuitous route. Interesting. Very. And and that was not boring. 00:15:06:24 - 00:15:33:15 Unknown Interesting. Because accountants are typically considered boring. But it was it was not boring being a tax examiner or a tax auditor or an IRS agent. That was boring because, you know, you're going out to people's places of business. You're learning about different businesses, you're looking at their books and records and, you know, finding discrepancies here and there. Very popular person. 00:15:33:21 - 00:15:59:15 Unknown Yeah. And that they were never happy to see me. However, I will say the last probably 18 to 20 years of my career, I was in the appeals office. And so those people were happy to see me because they had they had conflicts with the examiners that they I was there to resolve. That was a better that fit my personality better. 00:15:59:17 - 00:16:22:16 Unknown You know, I had an opportunity and a help resolve some issues and helped some people, whenever possible. So what is it that you do in your husband's practice, a CPA practice? Well, during the tax season, you know, I help with the preparation of tax returns. But during the off season, like now, he has he has some clients that he does financial accounting for. 00:16:22:21 - 00:16:55:02 Unknown And so, you know, I make journal entries I do bank reconciliations and things like that. Oh that's pretty interesting. Yeah, very. So you, you're now what are you now? You're 71. Me one. Why? We could interview you and, Yeah. Do you ever think about your own aging? I do, you know, when people talk, I'm. 00:16:55:02 - 00:17:20:05 Unknown I'm proud to be 71, right? I don't try to, hide my age. I think it's, My favorite line is aging is a privilege denied to many. So I never shy away from saying my age. A lot of people didn't make it this far, right? So aging is a blessing, and I'm, I'm extra blessed because I'm in reasonably good health. 00:17:20:05 - 00:17:46:00 Unknown I mean, I've had some health issues, obviously, with the breast cancer. I've had, you know, some herniated disc issues. But for the most part, I'm able to do pretty much anything physically that I want to do. So I still ride my bike. You know, I still I'm still able to be physically active. So, aging has been good for me. 00:17:46:02 - 00:18:08:01 Unknown And so how else to to invite to spend your time? I'm sorry. How else do you like to spend your time besides work and and church and husband and daughter? Well, I well, we travel a lot. My husband and I, and sometimes our daughter joins us, but we travel a lot. Sometimes just the two of us. Sometimes with friends. 00:18:08:06 - 00:18:34:12 Unknown We travel to a lot of jazz festivals, in and out of the country. In fact, earlier this year, we went to a jazz festival in Portugal. And that was really awesome. So, you know. Yeah, we do, we do enjoy traveling. We, I said last year I had a big birthday party for turning 70, and I was telling the people that my husband is literally taking me all over the world or around the world, different places. 00:18:34:17 - 00:18:52:24 Unknown So we do enjoy traveling. So that's one of our we try to get away 3 or 4 times a year. If not, come. Yeah. Are most of those, out of the United States, away from the United States? No. We usually do one big one out of the country, maybe two. This year might be two. We've been out once. 00:18:52:24 - 00:19:17:23 Unknown We may go to Canada this year. So. And and how long are your trips. So it depends. When we did the, the trip to Portugal it was up for ten days I believe. Since then we went to Florida. That was just like a long weekend, like Wednesday to Sunday or something like that. So, you know, it depends. 00:19:18:00 - 00:19:40:15 Unknown We the longest we did was a cruise. It was a 17 day cruise. And that was probably one of the longest ones that we've taken. Where was that? Where does that where did you go in that? We we started in Los Angeles. We went down the Mexico through the Panama Canal into South America and ended in Miami. Yeah. 00:19:40:17 - 00:20:01:10 Unknown Sounds good to me. Yeah. Have you been on jazz cruises? We have not. We've talked about that. We have several friends that have done them, and we've never we haven't done one yet. I think part of the problem is they're so popular. When people go on these jazz cruises, as the cruise ends, they sign up for the next year. 00:20:01:10 - 00:20:26:01 Unknown And you. And for those, for those of us who haven't been, you end up on a waiting list. And so, well, actually even tried yet we. Yeah. Just see, I have a question. Do you sing? I do not only have a gorgeous voice. I thought you probably did. Oh, no, I, I have a sister who sings. And I'll tell you this funny story. 00:20:26:01 - 00:20:42:10 Unknown When my daughter was very little, you know, you sing to your kids and they. That's what they know. And she heard my sister sing, and she was like, mommy, a dolphin can really sing. When you sing, you sound like you're talking. 00:20:42:12 - 00:21:09:18 Unknown So that was her way of noticing the difference? Yes. Yeah. Well, you are a walker. Yes. You love to walk everywhere. I used to be a runner. And you used to be a runner. Okay. Yeah. And you're in book club? Yeah. How did the two of you know each other? You know, and Darlene from book club. 00:21:09:20 - 00:21:48:04 Unknown We lived in the same building. Okay. For a while. Yeah. And we met in book club. Right. Yeah. And we walked together. Right. Right. Yes. Yeah. I'm noticing those lovely flowers behind you. Oh, and is that a, are those lights to keep the flowers and have anything to do with the flowers? No, actually, the plant that you see behind me is actually a plant that we had before we got married. 00:21:48:06 - 00:22:10:17 Unknown Wow. Yeah. My husband had one in his apartment. I had one in mine, and we still have. In fact, we used to have three. We have two now. You see, one of them and. Yeah. So those plants have been with us for almost 50 years. My goodness. I know right. That's amazing. It's amazing. A lot of people don't believe it. 00:22:11:02 - 00:22:31:04 Unknown I have a niece that says she just doesn't believe it, so. But we find that the bigger the pot we put them in, the bigger they grow. So we can't. We can't get a bigger pot because it'll be out the window. And and the flowers that we see. Are those part of that plant? No, no, I think what you see is an orchid. 00:22:31:06 - 00:22:56:13 Unknown So. Or is it just on the table? Very nice, very nice. Thank you. Is there anything you'd like to tell our listeners? I was trying to think in your introduction, I felt like there was something that you mentioned that I didn't. That we didn't talk about. We talked about, breast cancer. We talked about the pregnancy. 00:22:57:10 - 00:23:19:07 Unknown I don't know, I felt like there was something that we didn't get. Women's ministry and teaching children. Yes. So I've been teaching children's church. Actually started teaching children's church before my daughter was born. She's 35 now. And, so I took a break when she was born, but then I went back to it. And so I've been teaching for a long time. 00:23:19:07 - 00:23:48:05 Unknown As a matter of fact, I have kids. I teach four and five year old, so I have kids in my class who have had their parents in my class, so I enjoy it. I only do it once a month and we have lots of fun. You know, I'm always trying to think of creative ways to, make part of the lesson memorable for them because, you know, some of the Bible stories are things that they may not really understand, but there may be little things that they will remember as they get older. 00:23:48:08 - 00:24:12:00 Unknown It's my hope. Okay, then what about the women's ministry? So the women's ministry, I'm part of the leadership team. And, it's a team that was strategically put together by our pastor that has women from all generations. So I'm representing the older women in the congregation. And there are some as young as I think in their 20s and so and everything in between. 00:24:12:00 - 00:24:45:19 Unknown And so we plan events for the women. For example, we had a, last year, we had a tea party, which was very nice, a tea luncheon like, and, we recently held, hosted a health event where we started out with, a little fitness walking around in the neighborhood of the church. We did a few laps around the church, and then we came back in and had a little, one of the one of the leaders of the, of the ministry is actually a trainer. 00:24:45:21 - 00:24:53:01 Unknown And so she did a little some aerobic training for us. And then we had a little lunch, and then we had a panel discussion with, 00:24:53:01 - 00:25:17:23 Unknown an ObGyn and a nutritionist. And so they just answered questions and provided information to the women about things that, are important to women. Yeah. You're curious, given the age range of that group. Do you have opportunity to talk with each other about issues concerning women, in particular about issues of faith or, you know, what, what are the topics of conversation? 00:25:18:00 - 00:25:45:19 Unknown So it's interesting that you say that because mostly we get together for planning purposes, for planning events. But just in our last meeting, which was on Saturday, the, moderator of the ministry is planning. Well, she's calling it a retreat. It's really just a one day session where we can just kind of do some teambuilding and get to know each other and some of what you just talked about will happen at that meeting. 00:25:45:20 - 00:26:05:03 Unknown Or we can actually talk to each other and, get to know each other a little better. One of the younger women I remember when she was born, in fact, she's younger than my daughter. And, I remember sharing some of the things that we had. I think I gave her mom a high chair or something. So, you know, it's like, full circle. 00:26:05:03 - 00:26:26:02 Unknown Like, here she is serving in ministry now, and she's got little kids of her own. So, yeah, that's very nice. Really nice continuity connection. It's priceless, isn't it? Yes, yes. Well, thank you so much, Darlene, for talking with us today. And we really appreciate 00:26:26:02 - 00:26:29:18 Unknown just the different ways you're engaged in life. It's very inspiring. 00:26:29:20 - 00:26:56:00 Unknown Well, thank you for that. I, I'm I'm I feel blessed. Right. I feel fortunate, that I've been afforded the opportunity to enjoy this stage of life, and, Yeah, I don't take it for granted. I don't take it lightly that, I'm able to do the things that I enjoy. It's great. It's wonderful having you on. 00:26:56:02 - 00:27:19:21 Unknown Thank you so much for being with us. And thanks for the invitation, Gail. I really appreciate it. It's I look forward to to the podcast. Thank you. Yes. And listeners, make your voice heard. As together we change the conversation about women aging, explore women over 70 and join us and our aging reimagined circle. And assume you enjoyed this podcast. 00:27:19:21 - 00:27:45:17 Unknown And we'd like to recommend another podcaster, Beverly Glaser. And she asks, are you ready to ignite your next chapter? Aging with Purpose and Passion. It's the weekly podcast inspiring women over 50 to embrace bold life shifts and at lock their potential through captivating stories from trailblazing senior women. That's aging with purpose and passion. Thanks for listening.