00;00;11;17 - 00;00;13;00 Unknown Hi, I'm Gail. 00;00;13;00 - 00;00;20;14 Unknown Hi, I'm Katherine. Welcome to women over 78 and reimagined our award winning weekly podcast. Now in its sixth year, 00;00;20;14 - 00;00;37;01 Unknown visit women over 70.com to learn about all our offerings and ways to become involved. Consider visiting or joining our aging Reimagined circle. And as a member and story for participation and our online monthly programs. And thank you for listening. 00;00;37;03 - 00;01;12;28 Unknown And today we want to thank, Women's Connection. Our sponsor is a nonprofit women's group with chapters around the country. Members are vibrant, accomplished women aged 50 and forward who connect around common interests, empower each other to thrive and stick together as they travel through the stuff of life, no matter what comes their way. And that fits very well with our advocate for aging women, aging today, an expert in keep the memories, not the stuff. 00;01;13;00 - 00;01;36;08 Unknown And for 15 years, Janine Bryant has worked with people who are ready to change spaces. Well known for excelling and right sizing, she courageously leads older people to make difficult decisions when seeking answers to the important question of what do we do with all this stuff? 00;01;36;08 - 00;01;46;02 Unknown it's interesting to me because I was just with someone, Janine, who was asking that very same question, how can I possibly move? 00;01;46;04 - 00;02;11;16 Unknown What do I do with all the stuff? I think at some point we all ask that question, right? At some point, we have to confront our stuff and that question finds us, what do I do with all this? Exactly. Exactly. Your website. Easy. Right sizing.com is loaded with resources, timelines, checklists, and many other necessary tools for decision making. 00;02;11;19 - 00;02;19;24 Unknown So welcome, Janine. We're so happy to have you on women over 70 Aging Reimagined as an advocate for women aging. 00;02;19;24 - 00;02;28;18 Unknown interested in your approach to downsizing and which clearly proclaims, we are not our stuff. 00;02;28;18 - 00;02;42;12 Unknown both Catherine and I have experienced what it means to downsize. And when someone has lived in the same place for 30, 40, 50, 60 years, how do you even begin? 00;02;42;12 - 00;03;06;19 Unknown I know it's like that question how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And you're so right. It is completely overwhelming to downsize after decades in a home. And that's why, my company, I have a senior move management company, in Lincoln, Nebraska. And then easy rightsizing.com that you mentioned is my my platform for educating folks on this topic. 00;03;06;19 - 00;03;29;06 Unknown And the reason why Senior Move Manager is exist is because there is such a need for a time when folks who are leaving a home of several decades and they need to let go of half or more of their stuff. That is quite the task. And how how I always suggest starting is starting with the big stuff, which means furniture. 00;03;29;10 - 00;03;49;12 Unknown So looking at wherever it is you're going and figuring out what each room's job is going to be, right? If it's, a one bedroom apartment, it's pretty easy. There's going to be a bedroom and a living room, but if it's a two bedroom apartment or something larger, then you get to be a little more creative. Okay. Is there going to be an office or a sewing room or a library? 00;03;49;15 - 00;04;11;10 Unknown A den? And then we start measuring the furniture. I always say measure, don't guess, don't eyeball it. Measure the furniture so that you can figure out what is going to fit where. And then after the the bones of the home have been determined that that big stuff, the furniture, then you start having a blueprint of what your new space is going to look like. 00;04;11;13 - 00;04;34;02 Unknown And then when you start sorting through all the little stuff, the stuff in your cupboards, closets, the holiday decor, right? The stuff in your drawers, you have an idea of where all that little stuff is going to go. So my, you know, my example is if we're bringing if we do the floor plan and we figure out we're bringing two curio cabinets, but you've got four curio cabinets at your old place. 00;04;34;02 - 00;04;50;08 Unknown Well, now we know we have to let go of about two curio cabinets worth of, you know, decor items that are going to be in there. Same thing with bookcases if we can fit four bookcases in the new place, but you've got seven at home that tells you how many books you got to let go of or how many books you can bring with you. 00;04;50;11 - 00;05;13;03 Unknown So, you have to start somewhere, and I suggest starting with the furniture first and then sorting through the small things category by category. And if you think about if you're if the plan is to move and then empty out the house and sell it, that house has to be. As you ladies know, that house has to be empty when the new owner takes possession of it. 00;05;13;03 - 00;05;42;27 Unknown And that means every paperclip in every end table and every piece of clothing has to be out of there. And so, what do you do with it all? But it all comes back to setting those priorities and keeping the best stuff that will fit in your new place, letting go of the rest. And that brings us to a really important question, which is, where does all that stuff go that you aren't going to be able to take with you? 00;05;42;29 - 00;06;10;22 Unknown Yes, that is the big question. And, you know, there's probably three things, maybe four things that you can do with it. The first is if you're not keeping it, you can give it away to family and friends. You can sell it, you can donate it or it's trash slash recycling, right. Those are the four categories. And so when I'm, working with clients, my advice is always to, you know, I always say keep the best, let go of the rest. 00;06;10;22 - 00;06;30;10 Unknown So I want the clients themselves to figure out what is it that you want to keep with you. That's the first layer. And then the second layer is to look at what items you want to give away to your family and friends. And the phrase that I hear all the time is my kids don't want my stuff. Certainly that's a common thing. 00;06;30;12 - 00;06;51;20 Unknown And I agree, they probably don't want all of your stuff, but if you can be strategic and thoughtful about what you really want to pass on to your family, if it's in the way of family heirlooms, they will take one box of family heirlooms, especially if you wrap it up in holiday paper and give it to them around the holidays, right? 00;06;51;20 - 00;07;11;04 Unknown With a meaningful look in your eye and say, it means so much to me to give these items to you. I'm downsizing, and it's time for you to take grandpa's war uniform, or the vase that came over from Norway on the boat, you know, whatever. If you kind of curate those special items into a box or two, you can. 00;07;11;04 - 00;07;33;22 Unknown It's much easier to cast those items along. A little bit by a little bit. And then after you've given away what you want to, then the rest you can try to sell. How do you sell it? Well, you can have a garage sale. You can list items for sale online yourself. You can hire an estate sale company or a tag sale company, or you can hire an auctioneer. 00;07;33;24 - 00;07;57;05 Unknown Okay, sell what you can. You'll never be able to sell everything. So one, after you've sold what you can, then the rest can be donated. As long as it's in good condition. And sometimes family and friends can help you box those things up and haul them to charity. Or sometimes you might need to hire like a clear out company to come in and box those things up and drive them to charity. 00;07;57;07 - 00;08;17;02 Unknown And then the last one is trash. Some houses may require a dumpster for the trash. Other houses maybe, you know you can chip away at that slowly throughout your regular trash collection. But those are kind of the five steps to that right sizing process. The top layer is the stuff you're keeping. The second layer is the stuff you're giving to family. 00;08;17;04 - 00;08;38;17 Unknown Sell what you can, donate what's left and trash what remains. And then that house is empty and ready for the new owner. Sounds simple. It's not. It takes a lot of time and energy to do that, which is why senior move managers can be part of that process to help. Yeah, so often, people's identities become tied up in what they own. 00;08;38;19 - 00;09;03;23 Unknown And, too often we're moving because a spouse died or, you know, we have to move to, some other place other than where has it was that we've lived all these years, and, you know, it can become a real crisis for a lot of older people. Solutely a crisis of identity. And both of those things moving and letting go of your items and also losing a spouse. 00;09;03;23 - 00;09;24;07 Unknown Right. I lost my mother almost 20 years ago, and I watched my dad go through that. Even as a middle aged man, you know, you suddenly you don't. You're no longer this person's caretaker or this person's husband or this person's wife. You don't. Your social circle changes a little bit, right? The social dynamics of couples, socializing together. 00;09;24;07 - 00;09;54;11 Unknown Now, you're sort of the odd person out. So, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of identity shifts that take place during this last quarter of life, and that's hard, you know? And I'm a mother raising a pre-teens and teenagers, and that's another I mean, transitions happen throughout our whole lives, right? And our identity shifts throughout our lives. And so it's so fascinating to me to be in the middle and watch those changes happening on both ends of the spectrum. 00;09;54;13 - 00;10;12;14 Unknown And, you know, one of the things that I'm trying to teach my teenage daughter is that we are not our stuff, right? And our stuff, our possessions. The certain kind of genes are not going to make you a better person or a cooler person. And I thought, wait a minute, I guess that's what adults need to internalize that as well, right? 00;10;12;14 - 00;10;34;29 Unknown When we're letting go of some of our prized possessions, it doesn't necessarily change our worth or our value or our identity, but that identity being threatened is very normal. Especially so. Many of our clients were great entertainers and they loved, you know, that was maybe it was part of sort of their partnership with their spouse, if their spouse was. 00;10;34;29 - 00;10;56;20 Unknown Lots of times we see this with professors at universities or deans of a college. The the wife was expected to entertain a lot and have people in her home. When you downsize and maybe you don't have a dining room anymore, you don't have all of those supplies for entertaining. It feels like a part of you is gone. And that chapter and it is, and that's hard. 00;10;56;22 - 00;11;23;04 Unknown And I don't think there's any way around that. But I think acknowledging that is helpful, and to acknowledge that that is a almost a universal experience. It's not just happening to you. Janine. I have two friends this moment who are, the process of moving out of their homes of 35, 40 years, one to retirement community wanted to a co-housing, arrangement. 00;11;23;07 - 00;11;59;23 Unknown And, do you do work with people a long distance in terms of preparing for these kinds of moves? And I do you work? Yeah, I don't work one on one with folks. But I do have, videos, blog articles, books. And I also have an online course that can guide people through that process. Another resource I want to guide your listeners to is, something called Nasm, which is the National Association of Senior Move Managers, and their website is Nasm, dot org nasm.org. 00;11;59;25 - 00;12;25;16 Unknown And there are senior move managers in every state. So if if you have someone in your area that needs help going through that process, they can go to nasm.org and click on find a senior move manager and probably find someone who can help through that process. That's great to know. That's really great. Thank you. Yes. You talked about the power of counting. 00;12;25;19 - 00;12;47;25 Unknown So yeah. Does that help with decision making? Yeah, it is a big dose of reality, I think, and this, this rule, it's a very simple rule, the power of counting. It just means that you count your stuff, but it can be applied to every category of items in your home, whether you want to get granular and you want to say, I'm going to count how many pair of black slacks I have. 00;12;47;28 - 00;13;11;13 Unknown And when you see that you have nine pairs of black slacks, maybe it's going to be easier to say. Maybe I could get by with four pairs of black slacks, right? Or how many cookie sheets do you have? Or how many wineglasses are in your cupboard when you actually count how many you have? It helps you to take, a bit of a more rational approach on how much you should keep. 00;13;11;16 - 00;13;28;18 Unknown I always say to my clients, you know, if you count how many coffee mugs you have and then count how many people are in your house and how many coffee mugs per day you go through. Right? I mean, I try to have no more than two cups of coffee per day, and I'm, pretty frugal and maybe lazy. 00;13;28;18 - 00;13;45;03 Unknown So I reuse the same cup. I just rinse it out and I use the same one in the afternoon that I used in the morning, and there's two adults in my house. So that means really, two coffee mugs should be plenty. Now, I'm not really encouraging anyone to go down to two coffee mugs, but maybe six would be perfectly fine, right? 00;13;45;08 - 00;14;04;06 Unknown And a lot of us, if we were to go in and count, we may have 15 or 20 or even more, you know, so that the power of counting can really be applied to any area that you feel stuck in. And it helps you kind of realize the sheer amount of duplicates we have in our life. Right? Right. 00;14;04;08 - 00;14;32;13 Unknown And when you lose some of those, containers like the, you know, the, the, the, what's the word I want the, you know, when you lose where you used to keep all of these. Absolutely. That big corner cupboard that you have in your old space, right. It's easy to just keep filling it up. Right. And when you've been in the same home for 40 years, right, you get a new coffee mug for Christmas or every time you go on vacation and the cupboards are big enough, so you just put it in there. 00;14;32;15 - 00;14;52;10 Unknown But when you do, if you downsize, sometimes the cupboards in the new place are quite as big as the cupboards in the old place. And boy, haven't you noticed when you have to pack something or move something and unpack something, you do find yourself asking, do I even want this thing right? Sometimes it's easier to just say, I'm ready to let this go. 00;14;52;13 - 00;15;25;14 Unknown Yeah, it's the first time I zone it. I thought that I had taken away everything that I couldn't fit into my new apartment. And when I got to my new apartment, I had six huge cartons of stuff that just couldn't stay. Lights. Let's go ahead. Catherine, I wanted to return to the emotional side of this. Now, having been a recovering person, you know, recovering from a move just within the year. 00;15;25;17 - 00;15;50;10 Unknown So I and I think many people have this. I, I've traveled a lot. I have many things from my travels. I, I've received gifts, you know, over the many, many years. So I have a lot of sentimental attachment to everything from coffee mugs to statues, you know, artwork, everything. And I had a heart. I didn't get rid of much of that. 00;15;50;13 - 00;16;10;07 Unknown I have managed to find it, but, but my place feels a little cluttered again because I have so much of this sitting out, and yet it's very comforting. Yeah. So do you have any what are your tips for someone like me? Yeah, I first of all, I have to say I love the you use that phrase. 00;16;10;07 - 00;16;36;10 Unknown I'm recovering from a move this last year I, I might steal that because it's true. This is this is a very stressful event that you went through in the last year. And it does take time to recover from it. And good for you for noticing that, you know, you brought you brought a lot. It's comforting to you, but you are now starting to feel maybe a little uncomfortable in your new place because it does feel a little bit too cluttered. 00;16;36;12 - 00;17;02;23 Unknown So, you know, one of the things I would think about is categorizing those keepsake items or those memory items you talked about travels. If you have more than one item from a certain country, right? So if you travel to China and you have maybe 3 or 4 things from that, that destination, could you keep only your favorite two items from that destination and let one of them go, those kinds of things? 00;17;02;23 - 00;17;36;22 Unknown Or would it make it easier to let it go if you felt like it was going to a friend or, a kid or a grandchild or a niece or nephew? Sometimes that makes it easier. Or even if you found someone who would really appreciate it. A lot of times that makes it easier to let go. So if you were able to sell it to someone who would really enjoy it or even donate it to a place where you felt good about how things are displayed, and maybe the proceeds from this charity shop go to a cause that you want to support. 00;17;36;24 - 00;17;56;10 Unknown Those kinds of things make it easier. Of course, we've all heard the advice of taking a picture with the item, but I like what you, What I want to pay attention to is what you said in that it's comforting to you and that has value, you know? I mean, I always say, if it's if your stuff isn't bothering you, then keep it. 00;17;56;12 - 00;18;17;29 Unknown That's fine. My, my advice is to let go of the items that are being kind of a burden to you and that are bothering you. I never want to take away things that are a comfort, but again, it is all about priorities. So if you were to make a list of all of those keepsake items and maybe you have again, you could utilize the power of counting. 00;18;18;01 - 00;18;39;23 Unknown You have 20 keepsake items or is it 50 keepsake items? And ask yourself, what would it look like if I reduced this by 25%? Could I do that or does that feel painful? Okay, maybe we could reduce it by 15%, you know? Or is there a certain area of your home that feels a little too cluttered? Maybe. Is it too much stuff in the office? 00;18;39;23 - 00;19;01;23 Unknown Okay, maybe you just focus on what you can let go of in that one room that feels a little bit too crowded. Yeah, but keepsakes and souvenirs, especially from travels, are very hard because, especially if, like, your kids were not with you on that on that trip, then those souvenirs are not going to mean very much to them. 00;19;01;23 - 00;19;26;15 Unknown It has a very significant memories to you. But maybe want for them. And that's why I say, hey, keep it as long as it's comforting to you knowing that and being okay with the fact that maybe your kids won't keep them some day because they didn't have the experience of providing that statue, you know? Right? Yeah. That is like that. 00;19;26;17 - 00;20;01;11 Unknown Yeah. But what is your your concept? We talked about hosting a house cooling party. What is that one that I've been inspired because I've had clients tell me that they've done this before. And this takes an organized, proactive person to do. But as people are downsizing or as you identify items that you're ready to let go of, just putting them out, maybe on a dining room table, inviting family or friends over for cake or a cookie or a slice of pizza, and then saying to them, I'm having. 00;20;01;11 - 00;20;23;04 Unknown I'm decluttering and I'm having a house cooling party. And so I would love it if before you left, you took a look at the items on the dining room table and you took one with you when you go, and then you can enjoy it. Maybe you can think of me when you see it. And, you know, it's just the opposite of a house warming party that they used that you maybe you guys have maybe many years ago. 00;20;23;06 - 00;20;45;26 Unknown Now we're cooling the house and we're letting go of those things. Yes, I think I think you've done something similar with jewelry and books. Oh, I love that. That's wonderful. I had a zillion books, and I would go to meetings and bring a box of books and say, take one. I'm not leaving. I'm not bringing these back home. 00;20;45;29 - 00;21;06;03 Unknown And so, yes, and with jewelry too, right. Jewelry fits everyone. So anyone can make use of jewelry. And I think depending on, you know, how nice, precious, not precious the jewelry is. That's also something really fun for younger family members, right? My kids, when they were little, they would love to, you know, dress up in jewelry like that. 00;21;06;03 - 00;21;34;10 Unknown And so that's a fun thing for to involve younger people in as well. Yeah, I write. Yes. Yeah. Good idea. So, so, if so, you said you don't work one on one with people. Only in Lincoln, Nebraska. If any of your listeners are in Lincoln, Nebraska, we work one on one with folks there. But and I have a team of about 25 people here in Lincoln that we work with. 00;21;34;10 - 00;22;00;21 Unknown But, my platform on easy right sizing came about because I would get phone calls from folks who had heard about us in other states and they'd say, can you help me downsize? And I hate telling no to people, but unfortunately, I didn't have staff in those other states. But I thought to myself, you know, I could help you if I could just put everything that I've learned, put my process down on paper or on video. 00;22;00;21 - 00;22;21;21 Unknown And so that's what I've done over at easy right Sizing. One of my books is called Ready to Right Size, and it's really a step by step guide to that downsizing process. Here's what you do. First, here's what I suggest you do. Second, third fourth. There you go. And then my online course is for someone who would rather watch it on a video than read it in a book. 00;22;21;21 - 00;22;43;00 Unknown And so the online course really walks people through that process, and there's a workbook that goes with it, and it's kind of it's three hours of video content of me kind of poking you and prodding you and encouraging you and cheering you on and helping you as you're going through this process, sorting through every room in your home. 00;22;43;03 - 00;23;17;28 Unknown And, and do you wish I had known you a year ago as might have been helpful? Yes. And and do you, might at that. And in Lincoln, do you, help people actually move? Do the move. Yes, yes. Well, we, so we help with the floor plan, the sorting, the packing, and then we're not the movers, but we arrange for the movers, and then we're with our clients on move day, and then we get them unpacked in their new home as well. 00;23;18;00 - 00;23;37;13 Unknown And so I always say, we're kind of like your daughters who come in for that week and help you through that process without all the family baggage, hopefully. And that is what a senior movement, pretty much in any state will do. We, you know, we help with the sorting and the planning and then we'll do the packing and the unpacking as well. 00;23;37;16 - 00;23;57;02 Unknown And so, you know, we often say that a move, a move at any age is very stressful, but a move in the fourth quarter of life is unlike any other move for a variety of reasons. And, you know, you can hire two men in a truck to come in and they'll pack you and move you. But this is a lot more than just putting stuff into boxes. 00;23;57;02 - 00;24;20;17 Unknown As you gals know, right? It's it's making decisions and dealing with emotions and logistics and physical limitations. So our gals help with the sorting process is kind of, I think, the most important process. And then we'll get you packed and then we'll get you unpacked mindfully unpacking and setting up your new place in a way that's going to work for you. 00;24;20;17 - 00;24;41;01 Unknown And that's going to be familiar. Our goal is that our our clients feel as much at home in that new place as they can, because it's scary to move to a new place and you get homesick. Of course you do. It's no different than the first time you moved into a dorm room or an apartment. And, you miss your old place. 00;24;41;01 - 00;25;00;05 Unknown But we want to surround our clients with as much of the their favorite items from their old house so that they can feel more settled in that new place as they adjust. And it's still going to take time to adjust to living in that new place. Three months, six months. It's probably different for everyone. But it is a big adjustment. 00;25;00;08 - 00;25;21;21 Unknown As, as, time goes very quickly here, but I have another question. How did you get into this in the first place? Yes. I, was very fortunate. I did not start my business. My former business partner started it with her sister. After they moved their parents out of a big, a big farmhouse into a smaller house in town. 00;25;21;23 - 00;25;39;29 Unknown And when it was all done, they just looked at each other and they thought, good grief, what do other families do who are in this position? And maybe their kids, you know, are not around to help. And so that's when the idea for the business was born. And I came aboard two years later after they had started it. 00;25;40;02 - 00;26;01;15 Unknown And, I have always, grown up around I grew up, you know, two miles from each side of my grandparents and around several aunts and great aunts and uncles. And so I've always loved working with older adults. I've always I just I have a natural knack for organizing and I thought, oh, this is the perfect combination for me. 00;26;01;17 - 00;26;22;03 Unknown And, when I met my former business partner who started the company, Linda is her name. And and I shadowed her on a few projects that we were doing, helping folks move immediately. I thought, this is the job for me. And so I bought into the company and we were business partners. And then she retired and moved out of state in 2014. 00;26;22;05 - 00;26;47;14 Unknown And I've continued on. We're now in our 17th year of business. And, it's something it's something that I am good at. I'm naturally skilled at. But it's also something I'm so interested in because like I said, I think it's I know it's a process that touches almost every family at some point in their life. We all have to confront our stuff, and when we pass away, our stuff has to go somewhere. 00;26;47;17 - 00;27;13;16 Unknown And so who's left behind to deal with all of that stuff? It's it's a universal problem that I like. I enjoy the challenge of, That's wonderful. This has been very, very enlightening. It really has. And I think you bring us some great tips and certainly your website. Right sizing. Easy. Right sizing down.com is going to be useful for many, many folks. 00;27;13;16 - 00;27;31;08 Unknown and listeners, because of your loyalty, our numbers continue to grow. Still, we'd like to see more of you at our monthly online programs, Join Aged Reimagined Circle and participate for no charge and make your voice heard as together we change the conversation about women aging. 00;27;31;11 - 00;27;56;23 Unknown And if you like this podcast, we have another to recommend with host Wendy Green Boomer Better real talk about aging well and she takes you on a journey to explore how to live vibrantly and healthfully with strong relationships and purpose as we age. Wendy covers topics around financial literacy, physical and mental health, relationships, and purpose. And thanks for listening.