00;00;11;17 - 00;00;33;21 Unknown Hi, I'm Katherine. Hi, I'm Gail and welcome to women over 70. Aging reimagined. Our weekly award winning podcast. Visit women over 70.com to learn how you may become involved. Join aging, reimagine, circle and enjoy free participation in our online monthly programs. And thank you for listening. 00;00;33;21 - 00;00;59;29 Unknown Hi, I'm Catherine. We want to thank our sponsors. Intensive. You know, as skin agents, it becomes more fragile and bruises easily. Especially in the back of your hands or forearms. I'm loving skin tensor Bruce Cream, developed by Harvard trained dermatologist specifically for mature skin. It gently moisturizes and helps process date faster. Find it at skin intensive.com for 25% off. 00;01;00;02 - 00;01;06;06 Unknown Use the code capital W capital 070. That stands for women over 70. 00;01;06;14 - 00;01;38;00 Unknown Today we're delighted to be in conversation with Jane Olsen, age 70, from Las Cruces, New Mexico. She grew up in rural Wisconsin and attended college, where she majored in journalism and mass communications communication. She was hired by the Foreign Service State Department 11 years after her first interview. Her hiring was the result of a class action sexual discrimination lawsuit against the federal government, the largest of its kind that Jane says no one knows about. 00;01;38;04 - 00;01;48;15 Unknown Jane spent a total of 13 years in the Foreign Service, with time out for a bit more than a decade to care for her mother and serve as village president in her hometown 00;01;48;15 - 00;01;57;15 Unknown for varied foreign service assignments, took her to four countries in western and Eastern Europe and three extraordinary stints in Brazil. 00;01;57;15 - 00;02;07;20 Unknown After forced retirement at age 65, Jane moved to Las Cruces, New Mexico, where she's where she had taught journalism in the early 1970s. 00;02;07;23 - 00;02;29;29 Unknown She's exploring options to offer her skills in areas such as migrant workers, literacy and environment. So welcome, Jane, to women over 70. And thanks to my sister, Karen Marino, for referring you to us. Thank you. And let me just correct. I was, teaching at New Mexico State in the early 90s, not the 70s. 00;02;29;29 - 00;02;31;00 Unknown Yes, thank you 00;02;31;00 - 00;02;56;19 Unknown why don't you. Can you start with just telling us a bit? About what? It's what it was like to be in the Foreign Service. So I always say that the Foreign Service had highs and lows. And then a lot of days when I felt like I was working at the Department of Motor Vehicles, because it is a government agency and we are bureaucrats first and foremost, although we're also diplomats. 00;02;56;22 - 00;03;26;06 Unknown The experiences for me, I worked primarily in the area of public affairs, so we got out to meet a lot of people. So I met a lot of, host country folks who I would have never come in contact, without having that U.S. government affiliation. And then we also would bring in U.S. speaker and scholars to speak to host country audiences. 00;03;26;14 - 00;03;52;04 Unknown And again, those are the kinds of folks that I probably would have never come in contact with. So but again, a lot of days being, a DMV clerk, well, we don't want to hear about those. It's slow. It's. Can you, so can you tell us a little bit more about the class action suit? The the sexual discrimination suit? 00;03;52;06 - 00;04;21;08 Unknown So the suit is known as Hartman versus is. And then there's a whole string of secretaries of state because the suit actually happened in about started in about 1977 and was finally resolved when the Supreme Court refused to hear the government's fourth or fifth appeal. And I think it was 1999. So it went on for at least 20 years. 00;04;21;10 - 00;04;49;02 Unknown And I want to give a shout out to the law firm that took that on, whose name I can't remember at this moment, but they took it on pro bono, and they carried it pro bono for those entire 20 years and did not get anything except, actual cost reimbursement, until there was a settlement, of the lawsuit in 1999. 00;04;49;04 - 00;05;23;20 Unknown So it was it started as a suit on the civil service side. So, within foreign service agencies, there are there are two sides to at least two employment tracks. One is the civil service that we're all familiar with, with government employees. And that's what most domestic government employees are under. Is that, that the employment track. And then in the Foreign Service, there's also what we call the foreign Service. 00;05;23;22 - 00;05;51;28 Unknown So I was actually a Foreign service officer, not a civil service employee, but this lawsuit started with a civil service, or, an employee who was going to be working on the civil service side, filing a sexual disc or a government sexual discrimination in hiring suit. And that eventually became the basis of the class action. 00;05;52;00 - 00;06;27;04 Unknown And, eventually the lawsuit was split or bifurcated into a foreign service part. And the civil service part, the foreign Service part was much smaller than the civil service part. But, at the end of the day, it touched about 22,000 women who had, gone through the testing process. And then, during that period of time, which was like 1976 to 1982, were not hired. 00;06;27;07 - 00;06;50;26 Unknown And, according to the results of the lawsuit, they should have been hired or they should have at least been given, a fairer shake than they were given at getting employed. The final, outcome of it was there were something like 1600 women on the civil service side who got, settlement from the U.S government. 00;06;50;29 - 00;07;17;06 Unknown That's what makes this, such an expensive lawsuit for the U.S government. Each of them got an average of around $300,000 pay off. And then on the on the Foreign Service side, they ended up hiring 39 women to remedy what the court found to be the the, shortage, of women who were hired during that period. 00;07;17;07 - 00;07;46;20 Unknown I was one of those 39. You were one of those, as you're right. I mean, this is not something that is well known in any of the circles. And, I think the figure I read was it ended up costing the U.S government about $900,000. Yeah. No, 900 million. Sorry. I know you're calling it. Yeah. Oh. And here comes the cat. 00;07;46;22 - 00;08;14;03 Unknown Okay. That's all right, I like cats. So you were in, Western and Eastern Europe. Which countries in particular? So I served in Italy in a consulate in Milan. And I served at the embassy in Bulgaria, which was in Sofia. And then the rest of the time, the the rest of my time, I was either in Mexico or Brazil, primarily Brazil. 00;08;14;03 - 00;08;54;03 Unknown what did you do when you were in those countries? What was your were in public affairs? So what was. Well, I mean, with the exception of one two year stint, I always worked in public affairs. When I started, I started in an independent foreign affairs agency, which was the U.S. Information agency. And what is best known, especially in academic circles, is it is the, it was the agency that administer the Fulbright scholarships and Fulbright grants and, there's a host of other, scholarship and fellowship programs that it administered. 00;08;54;05 - 00;09;25;13 Unknown And, basically, it was described as the agency that told America's story to the world. And, sometimes that story has been pretty silly, and sometimes pretty annoying. But that was the agency that was in charge of that. In 1999, it was, consolidated with the U.S. State Department and became one of the five specialty areas for foreign service officers within the State Department. 00;09;25;16 - 00;10;06;23 Unknown So, within that specialty, you can either work on cultural affairs. So if we've read any good spy novels, we all know the cultural attache, who works in U.S. embassy and then the, press attaché. So media relations would be the other the other part of that specialty. I worked in both, and that was, especially the, cultural affairs side was when I would have those peak experiences that I talked about, I also did a two year stint in consular affairs. 00;10;06;23 - 00;10;37;04 Unknown Every entering foreign service officer is required to do that as part of their, I guess, career development. And it also addresses a big personnel need for, for the State Department, because those are the folks who are dealing with visa applications around the world. And the consular affairs also is in charge of, American citizen services abroad. 00;10;37;04 - 00;11;15;07 Unknown So if you have a problem and you need to get an embassy or consulate involved, you're going to be talking to a consular affairs officer. But I worked in visa applications. So, I did that in Brazil. Over an 18 month period. I did 22,000 visa interviews, which sounds very impressive. But I colleagues who did many, many more than I did, so that was, in some ways a very rewarding job because you got to meet I met 22. 00;11;15;07 - 00;11;51;11 Unknown I came in contact with 22,000 people. However, if you do the math, you can figure out I didn't have any meaningful exchange with any one of my. So, anyway, it's, some people referred to it as paying their dues to move on into the parts of the Foreign Service that they find. More rewarding, more enjoyable, more in tune with their own special interests and other people up to be consular officers for their entire careers and find, all of that work to be interesting and rewarding. 00;11;51;11 - 00;11;55;01 Unknown I was not one of those people, but I admire the people who do. 00;11;55;01 - 00;12;20;25 Unknown so you took a bit at a time off from the Foreign Service to go back home? I did who, from Wisconsin. Tell us about what? What brought you back home and and what what experience there? Well, what brought me back home because of the kind of, odd and torturous path I took to get into the Foreign Service, I was never quite convinced I was meant to be a Foreign Service officer. 00;12;20;27 - 00;12;58;02 Unknown And with the consolidation with the State Department, I went from what was a relatively small agency, U.S., I think at the time had about a total of 6 or 7000 employees. And that is a small agency in the US government. And I joined the State Department, which has somewhere around 60,000 employees. And so the kind of nimbleness and agility of a smaller organization disappeared into a very large bureaucracy, and it became a different place to work. 00;12;58;04 - 00;13;32;06 Unknown And so after, about five years, I was reading the Chronicle of Higher Education one day when I'd had a particularly trying day. I was in Milan at the time, and there was an ad from the University of Notre Dame that seemed to be written for me, and indeed it was because I applied for that job, got it moved to South Bend, work at Notre Dame for a couple of years, then moved to Chicago and worked for a study abroad organization that has its headquarters in the Loop in Chicago. 00;13;32;08 - 00;13;55;02 Unknown Eventually my mother well, not eventually, not long after I got back to the States, my mother had a stroke. We tried to piece together home health care working through an agency, and we were able to pull that off for about a year or so. And then my brother left his job to move home to take care of our mother. 00;13;55;04 - 00;14;20;26 Unknown He ended up being diagnosed with lung cancer and dying four months later. So back to the home health care. And, you know, I was the one who was kind of left as the responsible person and things just kept falling through the cracks. I got real tired of the I-94, I-90 corridor that goes between Chicago and the Twin Cities. 00;14;20;26 - 00;14;42;20 Unknown Oh, I know it well. I group home about every other weekend, and so I convinced that study abroad organization to let me work from home. So I moved my office into the bedroom I was in, lived in when I was in high school, and I was a remote worker for about a year, a little over a year. 00;14;42;22 - 00;15;17;03 Unknown And we both the organization. I finally figured out that wasn't optimal in my situation. So, I left that job and then took care of my mother for the next six years or so. In the course of that, some things came up in the village of Colfax, Wisconsin, and, I, I stepped forward, put my name forward to fill in for a city council person or village council position. 00;15;17;05 - 00;15;48;16 Unknown Eventually got appointed to the village council and then, Eventually was appointed to become the village president of that group of seven people. And, then ran for election at the next election. So I ended up being village president for about three and a half years. And again, the population of Colfax, about a thousand 1100, a tiny town. 00;15;48;21 - 00;16;20;10 Unknown But I do remind people that we offer most of the same municipal services that are offered by much larger municipalities. It is a volunteer position. It's I think we used to get $50 for attending a board meeting. So, and I was in the town where I grew up. So everybody knew who the village president was, and they knew how to find me, and often did. 00;16;20;10 - 00;16;44;11 Unknown During that period of time when I was taking care of my mother, I also had a part time job, managing the nutrition site for the county in Colfax. So it was a satellite nutrition site. So they ran a senior nutrition program, and that's where the meals on Wheels came out of. And then we also had, 00;16;44;11 - 00;16;46;14 Unknown they call it congregant dining. 00;16;46;14 - 00;16;53;28 Unknown So people came in four days a week and had lunch together. So I did that as well for about, I think four years. 00;16;53;28 - 00;17;05;23 Unknown an awful lot of heresies for sorry, Catherine, an awful lot of services for, a very small community like that. But most small communities, at least 00;17;05;23 - 00;17;06;21 Unknown in 00;17;06;21 - 00;17;19;13 Unknown the Midwestern states, have, you know, in they have a library and they have a police force, they have an ambulance squad, they have all of the the normal kinds of, municipal problems. 00;17;19;15 - 00;17;35;27 Unknown When I went in as a former cultural affairs officer, I was like, we're going to do cultural events in Colfax. And within a week I was talking, street repair and sewer repair. So the reality reared it. But he had. 00;17;35;27 - 00;17;44;09 Unknown was, you know, a bird's eye view of local politics that, and then you went back into the Foreign Service. 00;17;44;11 - 00;18;18;02 Unknown So my mother died. And I had actually not run for reelection to be village president. So that responsibility was no longer a part of the equation. And I was 57 years old. It was 2011. So we were in a recession. I'd been out of the labor market for about seven years, except for my part time job at as a, senior center nutrition manager. 00;18;18;05 - 00;18;49;14 Unknown And, so I was like, well, you know, when the dust cleared, what do I do with my life? I need I need to do something that will help segue me into a retirement where I'm not, as I said, living on a great in downtown Washington, DC. So the Foreign Service, served a lot of, served to meet a lot of those objectives for me. 00;18;49;17 - 00;19;11;05 Unknown And I knew I knew how to pass the exams. So I did all of the process over again and came in as what we call a baby diplomat. Well, and that's what that's what I did. Two of those three Brazil sense was on that second time around. And that's when I did the, consular services. 00;19;11;05 - 00;19;37;02 Unknown so what is a baby diplomat? You had to start all over. Had to start all over. Yep. Really? Yeah. So it was kind of an odd situation because my peers from the previous time were getting up into the very high ranks of the, of the diplomatic corps. And I was a baby diplomat. 00;19;37;02 - 00;19;48;22 Unknown And it served your purpose. It served my purposes. It was also a good lesson in humility. But primarily it served a number of purposes that I had. 00;19;48;22 - 00;19;51;13 Unknown Interesting that you mentioned that your father, 00;19;51;13 - 00;20;08;13 Unknown contracted lung cancer and died within four. That was my brother. That was in my brother. And your brother. Sorry. And, it brought me back to the memory of my own father, who contracted lung cancer and died within three months. 00;20;08;16 - 00;20;12;21 Unknown Yep. It happens. Yeah. Very fast. Yes, 00;20;12;21 - 00;20;26;09 Unknown Nonsmoker doesn't matter. It's very sweet. At that time 20% of lung cancer victims were non smokers. I don't know what that number is today. This was 22 years ago. 00;20;26;09 - 00;20;31;05 Unknown Let's bring you into the present here in New Mexico. What brought you. 00;20;31;08 - 00;20;42;19 Unknown Well first off I'm sure you know that there a license plate says the Land of Enchantment. And I always say and it doesn't say that for nothing. 00;20;42;19 - 00;20;56;07 Unknown I at the port at New Mexico State University, which is the second largest university in the state, located in Las Cruces, the second largest city in the state, from 89 to 9 before. 00;20;56;07 - 00;21;28;18 Unknown one of the major criteria I had in picking a place to retire was I never wanted to shovel snow again. And, Las Cruces fits that. Bill. I have not had to shovel snow since I moved here six years ago. It also has a university in, you know, in town, which I think makes a huge difference as far as the kind of cultural opportunities and educational opportunities. 00;21;28;21 - 00;21;59;26 Unknown I actually did an exercise where I pulled together addresses from my email, address list, address book to see where I had clusters of friends, because I also needed to have some kind of a support network. And it came down to, Las Cruces, Las Vegas, Nevada, and then Central Oregon, where I have a lot of relatives, and I opted for, Las Cruces. 00;21;59;28 - 00;22;29;00 Unknown Partly because I knew housing prices were affordable as well. So I was able to actually buy my house outright, which makes a huge difference as far as peace of mind. Financially and as I said, haven't had to shovel snow. And there are all kinds of good Mexican restaurants around here. And I still had that network, network of friends to go to the restaurants with. 00;22;29;00 - 00;22;52;17 Unknown So when we talked earlier, Jane, you said that you were, exploring some of the areas that that you, that you'd like to contribute your skills, your knowhow and your your skills. So what are you have you chosen certain areas or what are you looking at? So, one of the first things I should say, I moved here in August of 2019 00;22;52;17 - 00;23;07;11 Unknown one of the lovely experiences of being a Foreign Service officer is you often have household goods stored in multiple places around the world, and eventually they all get to you when you retire. 00;23;07;14 - 00;23;27;01 Unknown So it took about five months for all of my household goods to get delivered from Brazil and Gaithersburg, Maryland and Antwerp, Belgium. And so I spent, you know, five months unpacking boxes. And then Covid hit, 00;23;27;01 - 00;23;33;18 Unknown as far as getting involved in any kind of volunteer activity at that point, it wasn't going to happen. 00;23;33;21 - 00;24;06;00 Unknown And New Mexico, pretty much shut down for at least a year. And, things were very slow to come back online as far as civic action, you know, civic groups, museums, that sort of thing. But once things did start coming back online, I got involved with the local, well, not local. It's a state museum here in Las Cruces, and it's the New Mexico Farm and Ranch Heritage Museum. 00;24;06;00 - 00;24;35;15 Unknown So I went on the board of directors for that, worked with them actively for two years. It's a great museum and a great local resource that we have available here. So it was, rewarding to promote it and support the museum itself, with our, with the, with the organization activities. And after my two years was up, I decided to find another activity. 00;24;35;15 - 00;25;11;18 Unknown I've worked with, refugee resettlement activities, volunteering with, a group, a couple groups that work in that area. And I am currently exploring, working with a literacy program. New Mexico consistently ranks at the bottom of the list as far as quality of K through 12 education. And, this group is looking for ways to actually kind of address that on an individual level rather than a policy level. 00;25;11;20 - 00;25;24;09 Unknown And so I'm starting to work with them on that both administratively and, becoming a reading buddy for a second grader. When the new school year starts. 00;25;24;22 - 00;25;28;07 Unknown And other than that, I eat out at Mexican restaurants. 00;25;28;07 - 00;25;50;18 Unknown sound, like an enchanted lace. It is the land of enchantment. I'm telling you. Come to visit. That's a that's wonderful. Oh, yes. Thank you for the invitation. I was hoping for that. Yes. Well, the Merino family has been here before, so grab your sister and come and Gail, you join them. Thank you. 00;25;50;20 - 00;26;00;17 Unknown Thank and believe me, next January in Chicago, New Mexico, at 65 degrees. Looks pretty darn good, right? Sounds pretty darn good. 00;26;00;17 - 00;26;28;17 Unknown how do you feel about your own aging? You just turned 70. I just turned 70. So I just met your cutoff. I, you know, there are days where I. When I feel 70. And like many folks who are moving into this stage of, of, development, I have aches and pains and and all of that. 00;26;28;17 - 00;26;52;22 Unknown I consider myself really lucky that, you know, so far, they haven't compromised my mobility or my kind of thinking process. Although, how would I know? Right. But, I feel very lucky for that. But yeah, there are days when I think, yeah, I'm 70, and then there are other days where I'm too busy to even think about it. 00;26;52;22 - 00;27;20;08 Unknown So, those are often, I'm not going to say they're the better days, but, because I, I do like to have down days where, the car doesn't leave the garage, and, I can just sit down and read a book, but, you know, so far, so good. I had a brother who died at 52, so I feel like, I'm pretty lucky. 00;27;20;08 - 00;27;50;26 Unknown Thank you so much. Yeah. This is a pleasure. Yeah. I'm really wonderful. And, being an old liquor mogul, I'm, enjoying your your liquor cabinet behind you. I should have put the more exotic ones out front for you, Gail. And by the way, this is only half the collection. I love Dubai liquor. I don't drink that much, but I love Dubai, so that's. 00;27;50;26 - 00;28;06;23 Unknown That's a good way to be. That's. Yes. Love you. I'm sure. Exactly that. Oh, I didn't mention my week bartending course in Las Vegas. Anyway. It's great. 00;28;06;23 - 00;28;18;13 Unknown Listeners, we'd like to see more of you at our monthly online programs. Make your voice heard together as together we change the conversation about women aging. 00;28;18;15 - 00;28;51;15 Unknown Visit Aging Reimagined Circle at women over 70.com. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please listen to Beverly Glaser on Aging with purpose and passion. Are you ready to ignite your next chapter? Purpose and passion. Aging with Purpose and Passion is the weekly podcast inspiring women over 50 to embrace bold life shifts and unlock their potential. Two captivating stories from trailblazing women singers.