00;00;11;17 - 00;00;43;19 Unknown I am Catherine and I am Gael. And welcome to women over 70. Aging reimagined, our award winning weekly podcast is Visit Women over 70.com to learn about how you may become more involved and enjoy and join Aging Reimagined Circle and enjoy free participation in our online monthly programs. Thank you for listening and thanks to our sponsor, Wells Fargo Advisors, for their continued support. 00;00;43;21 - 00;01;10;15 Unknown And today, we're really delighted to be talking with Doctor Mary Ellen Jakosky, age 75. And I'm Mary Ellen began her career as a college president over 30 years ago. And during her tenure in two institutions, Mary Ellen is known for making big things happen. Through her visionary and collaborative leadership style, just a few examples. She's transformed a two year college into baccalaureate level. 00;01;10;18 - 00;01;42;21 Unknown She grew student enrollment from 300 to 1000, just expanded facilities for academics, athletics and dining. Interestingly, she's created programs and services for neurodiverse students, and she established a student apprenticeship training program so that students could prepare to work in nuclear submarines. She's the president. She's the recipient of many numerous awards and recognitions, and serves on many boards in the community. 00;01;42;23 - 00;02;20;00 Unknown I'm Mary Ellen has successfully navigated a high profile career with marriage and parenthood, and currently she's president of Three Rivers Community College in Connecticut. And she's contemplating what next? So welcome, Mary Ellen, to women over 70. You know, I've known you since 1980. When we were graduate students, and I've always admired your high energy, your can-do spirit, and your commitment to making higher education accessible to students, underserved students, and especially your commitment to the advancement of women. 00;02;20;01 - 00;02;51;12 Unknown So we're just delighted to be able to talk with you today. Well, it's my pleasure and my honor, and thank you very much for this opportunity. Yeah. Okay. So let's, start with, your path. What got you started on your path to being a college president? I think when I was a dean of continuing education and worked at Sacred Heart University, I became interested in the college presidency because when I looked around, all I saw were male presidents and I. 00;02;51;12 - 00;03;16;10 Unknown That begs the question. Well, where are the women? And so at that particular point in time, I was very interested in, the American college presidency. And it so happened at that time I had the opportunity, for a three year Kellogg fellowship. And during the fellowship, I really wanted to focus on what makes, successful women college presidents since they were so few of them. 00;03;16;12 - 00;03;48;27 Unknown And basically was told by the foundation that that was too close to the work that I was doing. So I changed my focus to look at the economic development of third world women. And I think in some respects that also helped me to redefine my interest and my focus to try to, try for a presidency. And so, I left Sacred Heart University and went to Mitchell College in New London, Connecticut, as the vice president for academic affairs. 00;03;48;29 - 00;04;27;26 Unknown And while there, my predecessor decided to step down and the board asked me if I would step in and be the interim president and doing that position for a year. I really liked it. And so when they did a national search, I applied and was there for 20 years, and was able to take a struggling institution and transform it into an institution that became a baccalaureate institution, had successful D3 NCAA athletic programs, had a program for neurodiverse students, and at the same time those things were happening. 00;04;27;26 - 00;04;52;23 Unknown We also reinvested in the campus in terms of building a new academic center, residence halls, redoing a whole student center and dining area. So it was exciting. I worked with great people and, we as a community really celebrated what we were able to make happen. And what kind of support, what were you involved there? Networks of other? 00;04;52;23 - 00;05;20;25 Unknown Were there other women college presidents that you were connected with? Yes. I would say the Connecticut Council of Independent Colleges at that particular time had a number of women, and the council met. I would say maybe 4 or 5 times a year. And in addition to that, I had attended the Harvard seminar for first year presidents and became very good friends with the president of Dean College in Franklin, Massachusetts. 00;05;20;28 - 00;06;07;11 Unknown And we would gather periodically to have lunch and converse and cajole and communicate about the challenges we were facing. And were you also involved with the I'm sorry, with the American Association of University Women? Yes. And also, the Connecticut AC Women's Network very much involved in that. And that I really enjoyed because, the ACA, Connecticut Women's Network had a lot of women who were junior in terms of their careers, and it became a wonderful opportunity to mentor them and to have meetings that were robust in terms of discussions, some of the questions, some of the challenges that they were they were facing, and just the timing of when do I apply 00;06;07;11 - 00;06;31;05 Unknown for my next career move? Am I ready for it? How will I know? Well, what help can I get? So I think all of those provided a very supportive sisterhood, and I think was very influential in helping women who might have been reticent about taking the next step to really have the courage to move on. No, that's not 00;06;31;05 - 00;06;39;16 Unknown how did the trajectory of women presidents move after you started as it changed? 00;06;39;19 - 00;07;12;27 Unknown Oh, I think it has changed. I think there are many more women college presidents. I think on institutions are more open to accepting a feminine leadership style. And I think that's because women tend to be much more inclusive and collaborative than some. Male presidents. I mean, that's a broad general statement. And I don't mean to paint all male presidents, but I do think there is something to be said for the collaboration and the inclusivity that women bring to a leadership style. 00;07;12;27 - 00;07;41;24 Unknown what were the challenges of being a female president? I think the challenge was letting, others know that you were competent. Somehow I think that there was this view that only a male could be competent. And I followed, my predecessor was only at the college for four years, but he followed a man who had been president for 36 years and had a very autocratic style. 00;07;41;27 - 00;08;09;13 Unknown So I think for me, taking on the presidency was to really sort of be like Vatican, to open up the windows, let some fresh air and get some new people involved, and really make the committee structure robust and have a shared governance process where people could participate, where there was listening by the administration, and it really created a very healthy, productive dialog. 00;08;09;13 - 00;08;35;10 Unknown And I think that what that did is it set the tone for the institution. And at the same time, you know very much I was committed to Greenleaf servant leadership and, you know, really tried to role model that in the leadership that I was doing in terms of communicating, in terms of listening, in terms of nurturing the spirit through professional development opportunities. 00;08;35;13 - 00;09;16;08 Unknown And it must have taken some a just major adjustment for because you're really turning the whole culture around. And so I didn't happen overnight I assume. No I mean I think the reason that I stayed at the institution for as long as I did is because if you're going to make drastic change or deep change, you really have to be willing to be in it for the long term, knowing that change is incremental and knowing that you have to bring people along and also mentor, faculty in terms of leadership roles so that they have the security and the comfort of knowing that if they take on this leadership position, you're there to 00;09;16;08 - 00;09;43;25 Unknown support them, you're there to guide them. You're there to listen to them, and extend a hand. Give a hand, take a hand. When you talk about servant leadership, that's, that's a phrase that those of us not in academics often hear. Can you, can you tell us a little bit about what that really means? Well, it was developed by John, Greenleaf. 00;09;43;27 - 00;10;22;00 Unknown And it's also it's also, about serving people. And the philosophy emphasizes through 12, points, the characteristics of what servant leadership are. And these principles serve as a guiding framework in terms of how a leader should, promote leadership on campus. And for me, the principles that really spoke to me, that were the ones that were communication, collaboration, nurture the spirit, because I really felt that they were core. 00;10;22;01 - 00;10;44;06 Unknown They to me, they emphasized the head and heart of what a leader is all about. Yes. Thank you. And I think, you know, my own philosophy was, or is I come to serve, not to be served. And so the question I always ask when, you know, I get a phone call or someone comes to my office is, what can I do for you today? 00;10;44;06 - 00;11;15;19 Unknown Because they've come, they've come. They may not know why they've come, but they do have a purpose. And so I want to make sure in terms of meeting with them, I understand. Do they need resources, do they need, within those resources be human or community or financial resources. And sometimes what I find is, you know, someone just really wants to have the opportunity to sit down with someone and share what they're experiencing. 00;11;15;22 - 00;11;39;04 Unknown Because it's a catharsis. And that sometimes does the trick in terms of making them feel better and sort of saying, oh, yeah, that's that's not so bad. Now. And now I have a, route to follow. You have an open door policy. I do, I do. And that up. Not all presidents have that. But you do. I do. 00;11;39;05 - 00;12;04;08 Unknown I'll give you a good example. Yesterday, the director of our IT department called me and she was having trouble calling me on teams. I couldn't see her, her face. And so then finally I did. And she was in tears. In tears. Because last week her computer got hacked, her telephone got hacked, her personal computer at home got hacked and she's Palestinian. 00;12;04;08 - 00;12;32;24 Unknown And so I said to her, I'll be right down in your office and I'll, I'll bring your supervisor with me. And it we had she feels as though she's being attacked because she's Palestinian and you know the chief of police, very much feels that she's being targeted. And basically, what she really needed at that particular point in time was just two people to be in her office to say, we support you. 00;12;32;26 - 00;12;55;29 Unknown We know this is really difficult. It's taking a toll on you. We want you to know we're here to support you. And you know we will deal with the system office to make sure that they try to fast forward this. So we get a resolution and a solution, So I think in many times leadership is about presence being for others. 00;12;56;01 - 00;13;21;25 Unknown It's beautiful. Yes. It's good. It's one of the questions that it's curious about is how you promote and support women. I think you've given many examples of that already, but is there anything else that you would like to say about about, supporting women? I would say this when I see a woman that I think has the potential for, more leadership. 00;13;21;27 - 00;13;44;29 Unknown I've, taken the time to talk to them, to sort of say. Have you ever considered this? I've also with women. I've nominated women for honors. We have someone at the college who was doing an excellent job as heading up the first year experience, and so I nominated her for the first year experience award that they do at the National Conference. 00;13;45;01 - 00;14;10;19 Unknown She was awarded it. She was over the moon. And, that put on put her on a different project in terms of her career. And I think it really gave her the opportunity to think larger than just being a director. She now thought, okay, I think I could take on a Dean's position list. So who who was there for you along the way? 00;14;10;21 - 00;14;41;24 Unknown To say, Mary Ellen, you have that. You can do this. It's time to take the next step. Or were you pretty much your own agent? I would I would say that there were, a few, male administrators when I was at Sacred Heart, the, provost was very encouraging. You know, he wanted an assistant in his office, the assistant provost, and basically came to me, and said, I want you to apply for the position. 00;14;41;24 - 00;15;08;16 Unknown And then I said, why? And he said, because I don't like the candidates, internal candidates who applied. And so I think, I did and worked with him for about three years. And it was a wonderful, working relationship. I also when I worked at Empire State College, I worked for Dean, who was very, very supportive of hiring a lot of women. 00;15;08;17 - 00;15;40;29 Unknown I mean, I think probably of all the deans and Empire State, he had the most women on his staff. Not. And in, secretarial roles, but they had significant leadership roles and contributions that they could make. And I think as a young, person in academe, that always stood out to me because those women, I saw them grow and advance and flourish, in the responsibility that they took on. 00;15;44;05 - 00;16;13;04 Unknown It must have been, difficult for you to be in the roles you were in and to raise a family and to have a life outside of the schools that you represented. How did you manage all that? Mary Ellen? Well, I think I have a very supportive husband who I think on understood the fact that I really, cherish my career and that, it was very fulfilling. 00;16;13;06 - 00;16;42;27 Unknown And at the same time, we also have the agreement that he would be there for me, whenever, I needed him. And so we had a young daughter who was only three when I became a college president, and he was there throughout all of the time of her growing up. So I really never had to worry about, not having his support, whether at the, you know, to be there when she was sick or else, or to provide transportation. 00;16;43;00 - 00;17;11;15 Unknown He also was an academic at the University of Connecticut. So, we had the luxury of the flexibility of schedules that some people don't always happen. And then I say, I also think in the community where we lived, there was an afterschool program and bussing from the time that she was, in daycare to kindergarten to, one through six and then middle school and, finally high school. 00;17;11;15 - 00;17;35;27 Unknown So I think the educational community in our local community understood the needs of, career to dual career families. You know, I, I've, I've known your daughter or. I mean, I know I don't know her now, but I knew her when she was a very young little girl, and she has she has, she's been earned a PhD. 00;17;36;00 - 00;18;07;21 Unknown She's doing research. She has had her. Just had her first. She's married. Had her first child. So what is it like to see witness her her growth and her development? Oh, I think I think it's personally very satisfying and fulfilling to see that, the foundation and the values that you try to inculcate, have taken root. And at the same time, she's grown into a mature young woman. 00;18;07;24 - 00;18;50;04 Unknown Who is very mindful of, the male dominance in the scientific field and in the workplace. And so are you kind of a coach or mentor on the side? I, I would say so and I think and, she worked for Bain Consulting in that vein. Consulting. They did have a women's leadership group. And they did assign, a mentor, which I thought was was excellent in terms of helping the, junior professionals have someone that they could rely on, someone that they could go to, someone that they could talk to, and someone who would be there for them to, guide them. 00;18;50;06 - 00;19;15;14 Unknown And so, Mary and, Ian, I have been in your home here several home and, and a lovely, spacious home. And recently you've sold that you and your husband sold that home. And. So where are you now? We are in an independent living facility in Wellesley, Massachusetts. It's a community of about, I would say 140 people. 00;19;15;14 - 00;19;44;13 Unknown There are 80 people in the independent living part of the community, and the remainder are in assisted living. But they co-mingle they do happy hours on Fridays and Wednesdays, and the assisted living, residents can come to the cultural events that happen here, like on Thursday today at 115, they always have a woman who comes in to to talk about current events. 00;19;44;15 - 00;20;05;09 Unknown I would have been so interested to hear what she had to say about Trump and tariffs and what's happening that went to that. So I'll get a debrief later on. And then they have, a person who comes in to talk about the latest books. They have, the opera on Sunday and they have, musical on Psalms. 00;20;05;11 - 00;20;36;20 Unknown So the community here, I think, provides wonderful opportunities for socialization as well as, intellect stimulation. And, it's very interesting because this community has a lot of women who are over the age of nine date and every morning, you can go down for continental breakfast. They put out from 730 until 1030. They put out, coffee and pastries and fruit, and, people will gather. 00;20;36;20 - 00;21;11;25 Unknown Some people will just come down and have their coffee for the morning, before I go to work. Usually, if I'm working remotely, I'll go down and grab some coffee. But, I was down there, yesterday morning, and the four women who were there, one was 93, one was 91, one was 90. And then today, when I went down to grab a cup of coffee, they were telling me about a woman who was 103 in the assisted living, who cooks for herself, who bakes, goes to Tai Chi every morning. 00;21;11;27 - 00;21;39;20 Unknown I have not met her. So I was saying to one of the people there this morning, I said, you have to introduce me to her because I'd love to meet her, but I just I'm. I guess I'm shocked because our society is so fixated on age. And I guess what I the, eye opener for me is that you really can't look at people according to age because age really doesn't really define who they are. 00;21;39;20 - 00;22;09;07 Unknown I mean, many of them are curious. They talk about politics. They know a lot about the environment. They're passionate about some of the things that they did, whether they were a social worker before or they were a faculty member. It's interesting. The community has, a radiologist who's 85, he's still working. We have no attorneys here, which is interesting. 00;22;09;09 - 00;22;38;07 Unknown But I would say the dinner conversations, are fascinating and and rich in terms of the topics that are covered and the insights that people have, which sounds like you have the best of both worlds. You're working, you're still a president of a college, and you have this, as you said, this other socializing. And I know when you and I talked briefly, you know, well, how long will you continue in your presidency and then what might come next? 00;22;38;07 - 00;23;11;24 Unknown So do you want to say say anything about what next? I'm just, at this particular point in time, trying to focus on having the next step. What will my purpose be? And I had a situation, this year, one of our anthropology professors came down with glioblastoma. And, instead of thinking that this was the end, he basically said, I, I, I have a new purpose in my life. 00;23;11;26 - 00;23;32;29 Unknown So I, he was in my office about six weeks ago to tell me that he was going to retire. And so I said, well, what are you going to do? Well. And he said, you know, I can't continue teaching because he said, I can't. He's having difficulty using his hands. His brain is still active. So he is going to volunteer at Sturbridge Village. 00;23;33;02 - 00;24;05;04 Unknown And he is also going to do some writing and then do some lectures for the Adventures and Lifelong Learning group, which is a retirement group at the college. And he has a love of Japan, so he and his wife are going to be going traveling to Japan this summer. So in many respects, I thought for me it was an interesting conversation because I saw a person who was very positive about a very negative diagnosis, but who it was all about had it to. 00;24;05;07 - 00;24;43;08 Unknown And so much in life is all about what your attitude is. How would you describe your attitude? Positive, optimistic. You know, the world is our oyster there and there's always opportunity. It just depends upon what you want to pursue, right? Yeah. And how much energy you have to pursue it. Yeah. Is it personal to ask what made you make this decision to move to independent living in, in a senior facility now rather than waiting? 00;24;43;08 - 00;25;06;01 Unknown Sam was I would say there are two major reasons. One is our daughter lives in Brookline, and Brookline is two hours from where we live. So what we would do is we would drive up to have lunch and basically, she said, it would be so much nicer if you were closer. And secondly, the majority of our friends have passed on. 00;25;06;07 - 00;25;37;15 Unknown We used to always have people come to the House for 4th of July for Saint Patrick's Day, for other events that we're going we're going on. And, you know, when asked year, one of that, I mean, basically, I would say the last one of them passed on. And so I just said to Matt, when our daughter brought this up, because my husband wasn't that keen about moving, I just said, there's nothing here to keep us. 00;25;37;18 - 00;26;02;06 Unknown Usually. What keeps you there is your friends and your social life and a sense of community. And so I have two good female friends, who are retired, but I, I'm the organizer. I'm the organizer to say, would you like to gather for lunch? Would you like to go to this concert? And I said, you know, if we move, they can always come up, take a day trip and and drive up. 00;26;02;08 - 00;26;27;18 Unknown And so, not this summer. The summer before we started, I started googling independent living places and came up with a list about 6 or 7, and we would come up on, you know, make appointments, come up and visit them. And the place that we are now is the place that we like the best. And the reason that we like it is it's in an urban area. 00;26;27;20 - 00;26;54;10 Unknown You can walk out to the street, there's a CVS, there's the same day surgery center, there's a Dunkin Donuts, there's the paparazzi Italian restaurant, there's a Chinese restaurant, there's a Japanese restaurant. There's, orthopedic, center. About a block away. The hospital is a mile away. So, and you're a mile away to get to I-95 and 128. 00;26;54;10 - 00;27;16;07 Unknown So it just seemed like the confluence of events was just right. And when we went on a waitlist because there was a waitlist. And so we waited about a year, you know. So in June, we got, a phone call saying that they had a two bedroom apartment. Did we want to come and see it? We did. We basically, agreed to take it. 00;27;16;09 - 00;27;46;02 Unknown And then they helped to arrange movers. They helped to arrange a transition company. So when we moved in on August 1st, all our furniture was in place, our bed was made, all the dishes were in the cab, but all the clothes were hung. I mean, it was just like, well, no, I mean, this. Yeah. And then, you know, our real estate, early June, we got the call to look at the apartment when we went back and told our real estate agent that we wanted to sell our house. 00;27;46;02 - 00;28;15;27 Unknown We put our house on the market at the end of June on a Thursday. On Sunday, we had two offers. And then I said to her, we need some help because we have all this dark furniture and young people don't want dark furniture and so she put us in touch with someone, and they arranged to have, a sale on a Saturday and Sunday and then on Sunday, when we came back to the house, they had removed everything. 00;28;15;27 - 00;28;43;11 Unknown They had vacuumed the house. The garage was spotless, so it was just the stars aligned. It was really amazing. That is a miracle. I mean, it really sounds like having been through a major move about the same time, that is really fabulous. Oh, we did this before. I mean, I had we had dining rooms out, we had two bedroom sets. 00;28;43;14 - 00;29;18;10 Unknown We had, furniture, I mean, and they were able, you know, if they didn't sell it, they were able to take it and resell it. And to me, it was worth worth it, because it just becomes a really big burden. And then we had all we had a whole library both downstairs and in our basement. And what I did is, we decided to give any books that were philosophy, theology, oriented to the Hartford Seminary. 00;29;18;12 - 00;29;35;07 Unknown And then, I gave books to all of the surrounding public libraries. And so, the Hartford Seminary was absolutely delighted. So I think by the time that we were done, probably there were a thousand books that were given a way 00;29;35;07 - 00;29;48;12 Unknown Well, Mary Ellen, this is just been delightful to talk with you. And, just anything else you'd like to say to our listeners before we have to close? Just go for it. The sky's the limit. 00;29;48;12 - 00;30;22;11 Unknown Thank you so much, Mary. I'm sure. Thank you so much for this opportunity. And, I'm delighted that you asked me. And I hope that what I had to share is helpful to those listening to this podcast. I'm sure. Thanks to both of you for deciding to do this, because I think, it's so important to have the support of the sisterhood in terms of just buttressing and knowing that it's there to to support, to guide a shoulder to, to cry on, if need be. 00;30;22;14 - 00;30;50;23 Unknown And a helping hand, along the way. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And listeners, we'd like to see more of you at our monthly online programs. Make Your Voice Heard is together we change the conversation about women aging. There's an aging reimagined circle at women over 70.com. And if you enjoyed this podcast, we want to recommend Beverly Glaser's Aging with Purpose and Passion. 00;30;50;25 - 00;31;10;26 Unknown Are you ready to ignite your next chapter? Aging with Purpose and Passion is the weekly podcast inspiring women over 50 to embrace bold life shifts and unlock their potential through captivating stories from trailblazing senior women, aging with purpose and passion that can.