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Welcome back to wedding through culture.
I'm Tim Flanagan. And I'm a Amanda Kramer.
When culture is not a priority, people aren't
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I'm a amanda Kramer, and I'm really excited
for the conversation that Tim, and I are
going to have today
is a topic that has been on my
mind for a while, and it's something that
we shared in are what you can expect
through them winning through culture episode that you
just listened to a couple weeks go hopefully.
And this is a conversation around finding or
building purpose in your work. There is this
element of having distinction between Pe passion and
purpose. And today, Tim and I are gonna
dig a little bit deeper into what that
looks like if you're an entrepreneur,
how that has come to fruition and his
life is a leader and just all the
things related to purpose and passion. So, Tim?
Thank you very much, amanda. It's good to
be here with you today. And, yes, we've
talked about this topic. For a while. I
am interested in
unpacking it a bit more with you. And
I believe the starting point of
discussion around purpose
and passion
really begins if our listeners are familiar with
the Mas hierarchy of needs.
It begins with a understanding of how people
approach what they need. And I think from
my experience
in business and life,
you see a continuum
of
people professionally whether their business owner or quite
frankly in their professional career,
striving for success,
which is ultimately
defined differently by different people, but usually,
falls into into a couple categories we'll come
back to.
And that's striving for success for... Those that
are fortunate enough leads to success
and then it leads to an entirely new
conversation, which is okay.
What else is there? Right. What is my
passion?
And purpose really more so my purpose because
your passion is probably what fuel you through
the
success phase,
and got you to that point where you're
now asking yourself. Okay. There's gotta be more
than this.
What's my purpose. And it's the transition that's
been written about by a couple of wise
people relative to the success to significance
transition. Yeah.
I think a good place to start this
dialogue is to define the difference between when
it is something that you're passionate about or
whether it is your purpose.
So passion typically is that emotional
aspect is something that's slightly more inward focused.
It gets you motivated.
It kind of is okay, Cool. I'm getting
up every day, and I'm doing this,
whereas you have your purpose, which is You're
not just born with what your purpose is,
Sometimes you have to build it along the
way whereas passion you typically are. As far
as purpose is concerned that sure why it's
your
ability and your
contributions to the community that you serve. It's
that greater component. What are you giving back
at the end of the day?
And I think the utopia of it all
is when your passion and your purpose aligned.
But more even specifically,
who take into account kind of your superpower.
So when you have your talents,
your passion, and your purpose. When all 3
of those things are... In alignment. I think
that's really where you get to that success
and that place of, okay. I've reached the
top of the mountain and now what?
So, Tim, maybe if you give a little
bit of context of when you started out
on your journey as a leader,
did you start with your passion or your
purpose?
I would say that I started with something
even more basic than that. Alright. So I
think that whether you're professional or business owner
and speak to being a business owner is
you've got to
make enough money to survive.
Feed your family, have your business... Be successful,
operate,
generate enough revenue to reinvest in your business,
Hire people do all the things that a
business needs to do to be successful, and
maybe not just have to eat Ramen. Well,
that's a college thing or perhaps after college
depending on the success of your business.
So that I know is got to be
sat first.
Now it's your passion back to your...
Definition there, amanda, your passion may cause you
to choose your profession. If you're fortunate and
or the business, you start,
it's something you are excited about. It's something
you enjoy. It's something you have positive energy
about, and it's something that pushes you through.
The challenges that inevitably come along because they
will come. That's a guarantee.
So I know for me, at least my
first
objective. I had a passion to help people.
I had passion for how
the financial services industry could impact people's lives,
and I had a very strong need
to find a way to build a business,
and have an income that could sustain that
business and sustain my family. So the passion
is what
got me going. Right. And kept me going
quite frankly when things did not go according
to plan.
But until I was able to
meet that first need as a business owner,
you know, truthfully, the passion
is what you got to push you through
the purpose piece for most people I think
comes later. Mh. Biggest it's built as you're
working through those successes and those challenges that
you face? Yes. So what are some questions
that you... Asked yourself along the way as
your purpose was coming to fruition. As you
move from that initial need,
to really leaning into those passions that you
have to get you through, maybe those challenging
times. What are some of the questions that
helps you form where your purpose ultimately landed.
Well, the questions ultimately for purpose are what
am I uniquely gifted to do? Mh. You're
super powers. Yes.
Superpower. And I know for me at least,
it was very difficult for me to see
that. I had to have other people help
me. Tease that out. I remember doing an
exercise right around the time I was 30,
I went to a few people that I
trusted and respected it and said, what do
you see me be good at. And, by
the way I've done that since then as
recently as last year, because it's definitely
something that changes over time as you acquire
skills and experiences.
My first question is, what am I good
at? What did God kind of gift me
to do in this lifetime?
The second question then becomes... So is it
something that I actually enjoy. Right?
Because you may be good at something that
doesn't really satisfy you? Yeah. And I don't
know that that's often the case, but I
can think of some instances where I've seen
that. So the second question then is, you
know, what do I really enjoy? And then
the third question is, again, back to the
business aspect of this,
is is that something
that the world sees value. Mh. Can I
create value in that? Can I transmit that
value to other people and in turn, be
for that?
Compensated for that, and again, build a business
around.
So said another way, that last question that
you were discussing is really...
The world is a better place
because I'm in it and the ability that
I had to produce x. Whatever that might
look like. So If you talk about the
alignment of your talents. So the superpower question,
the alignment of d you have satisfaction,
do you have the...
Passion at the end of the day to
be able to come to the table every
single time and say, you know, I am
putting or pouring rather, a thousand percent of
myself into this? And then is the community
that that I'm in or the world as
a whole? Is it better because I'm able
to have this value that I bring to
the table? Yeah. I fundamentally believe we all
have unique gifts. Who are all bringing something
unique to the world.
Many people.
Unfortunately, I believe, also don't ever figure out
what that is to because they're not intentional
about it. This is definitely a very intentional
act. It's 1 thing to have an inkling
as to what excites you and what you're
interested in and it's a whole another thing
though.
To organize your life around it and to
make it come to fruition and to bring
it forth and ultimately bear fruit
So there's definitely
a pathway here that again, my fundamental belief
is
at some point in the journey of life
The vast majority of people are gonna ask
themselves, why am I here? What is this
about?
And what is my purpose?
And some people get great clarity of that.
I know early in their life. Some people
never get that. Some people never ask the
question. I Say, it might go back to
the questions. Like, are you constantly?
Because the success equation says make more money.
Get more awards, do more things. The do
more things. Yeah. All do more things. Get
more things, and that's the success, the equation
of our society today is, you know, be
famous. How many followers do you have? All
that stuff,
says, that's what success is. Yet, I know,
from my own experience and talking to a
lot of other business owners and entrepreneurs
that at some point,
that's not enough.
Well, and if a entrepreneur of just listening
if they wanted to reach out or somebody
that potentially... You know, you have a relationship
with no matter where you are in that
relationship cycle. If they were to come to
you and say, as I'm building this business
or as I'm starting out whatever
phase of life they're in? And they said,
do I start with something I'm just good
at or do I start with something I'm
passionate about. What would your advice be for
that individual? Great question, man.
That's not a heavy question at all. But
I think it gets back to
ultimately,
the ideal situation is both.
Right. Yeah. You're doing something you enjoy. You're
doing something that you feel some inkling that
you were created to do.
And it's something that you can
do successfully
from a standpoint of building a business around
or having a career around. And again,
how many people in life pursue other people's
vision of their life? They go and get
a degree in any profession
because someone else told them that's what they
should do. Right. Not because it's something that
necessarily they're passionate about not because it's something
they necessarily feel they're good at. And again,
our society says, well, you know, if you're
a doctor or lawyer or certain profession, you
can make a lot of money, which is
true.
Yet, make a lot of money is typically
not the purpose that people lean into or
land Right. When they eventually get there. Yeah.
That may be a byproduct
of this intersection of passion
and purpose and ultimately
finding your way and your work and your
business life, but that's not
I don't think that's the end all be
all. Well, it's interesting that you comment about,
like, getting a degree in a particular subject
or...
Area in which you just kind of somebody
landed on Monday and said you should be
x.
I think that at least in my daily
life don't really come across a lot of
people who declared a major and graduated with
that major. And then today either have not...
I shifted or
outside of, you know, even a doctor, maybe
their specialty is different than they originally thought
it was going to be there's that room
for adaptability
because you're working on building your purpose as
you go. So I think that's important to
note that it's not Okay, Day 1, you
decided, and then that's the only thing. That's...
You do have to be laser focused if
you wanna build it, but it's... You can
have some room for...
Flexibility.
I guess, this is the best word to
use. Well, I think that's the right word
to use because again, it's an iterative process.
Right. I believe few people are blessed enough
to, you know, in their twenties figure out.
This is why I was created. This is
exactly why I'm here, and this is exactly
what I'm gonna do about that. Mh.
I think most people spend a lifetime pursuing
that. And again, in a business setting, if
you're creating value,
For whomever your clients are, that can still
be something you're passionate about, and you clearly
can find your purpose in that. Now in
my mind. Well, and as a leader, the
intersection as we said that utopia of having
your purpose and your passion and your... Special
talents or your powers as I like to
call them, all come together is obtain, but
we talk a lot about on this podcast
around as a leader, how that gets put
into the evolving culture of your organization, whether
it's you and 1 other person, whether it's
50 people, a hundred people, whatever it might
look like and we go back to this
book quite often, but I have it here,
and it's the culture solution by Matthew Kelly.
And on 1 of the pages,
He articulate a dynamic culture cannot make employees
happy,
but it can make fulfillment and happiness at
work a lot more obtain.
And I think about that in the context
of a leader and the discussion that we're
having today around purpose and passion, if the
leader is working towards that. The ability for
them to them pour
their purpose and their passion into the organization,
then results and a culture,
that others can find their way, find and
build their purpose within. So I think having
the discussion as a leader as a business
owner entrepreneur or whatever word you wanna utilize
there? Is there a way in which
entrepreneurs
leaders can create space or that you have
seen that they can create space to help
others as they're going on that same journey
of building their purpose. Is there anything that
comes to mind?
Yes.
In fact there is. I think Amanda that
the
imperative of a leader to create a winning
culture.
That unlocks people's passions and purpose
is to be intentional
in the formation of that culture
And what I mean by that is to
acknowledge that the purpose of the business
and to discuss the purpose of the businesses
isn't and just to make the bottom line.
Right. Now, the business needs to make a
bottom line in order to sustain itself and
offer all these wonderful opportunities I'm about to
speak about, So that's important back to my
earlier comments. If the economic security is not
there, the rest of this is gonna go
out the window because of, again, the hierarchy
of human needs.
But with the security of a well established
business,
the intentional, I believe an entrepreneur has to
have is recognizing that everybody in that organization
has unique gifts everybody has passions and interests,
and everybody ultimately is here for a purpose.
Mh. And as the leader are you formulating
a culture
that speaks to helping people identify, what are
you good at?
What do you enjoy?
Whether it's in the actual job you've been
hired to
or on a project team or some other
way, how can we help you
explore that further, unpack that, kind of foster
that.
So that's number 1. Number 2 then is
really
an open dialogue that everybody's here for a
purpose. Again, that's not
necessarily certainly in a large corporate environment. You're
not gonna see that conversation.
Because it's about quarterly earnings and it's about
all this, but as an entrepreneur of a
small business, you have an amazing opportunity
to create a culture
that people wanna come be a part of
because you're giving them an opportunity to pursue
something they're passionate about
Obviously, it needs to be in alignment with
what the business needs and a good leader
can make that happen, let's say 80 percent
of the time.
And that same process in my mind allows
them then to begin to find their purpose
and really get an alignment with that.
And sometimes that alignment may mean they're not
with that organization anymore. Other times it may
mean that they you know, are truly suited
and uniquely gifted for a particular need the
business has, and it gives them a chance
to grow into an entirely new role, or
grow up in a role, but
that's to me the imperative if you're gonna
create a winning culture
around people pursuing their passion and finding their
purpose in life. That's 1 of the key
things you're gonna have to address. There's another
1 will come to in a moment. But
those 2 things I think are really critical.
And in doing that, again, I know that
a business can create a culture.
The people wanna be a part of.
Well, in in a future episodes of flash
forwarding here just a little bit. You do
have a... Really interesting dialogue with a
individual Debbie mill house and talking about when
that
opportunity arises for someone to seek employment in
some capacity,
how the purpose and passion, how that all
goes into the talent management and talent strategy
component of being a an entrepreneur and a
a small business owner, which I think is
really cool. So I know these tendencies and
discussion points that we're having today are also
going to be part of that dialogue too.
So I do hope that our listeners will
tune in. But you mentioned
the concept of having that space in a
small business where an individual can work to
figure out and or build their purpose and
really
lean into the passion and the things that
they're good at. Do you find that as
a
leader
having that annual
performance
conversation that you build space in there to
have dialogue around the path or the purpose
of the individual? Or do you think that
that's a separate? I mean, I think it's
an ongoing dialogue I do, and I think
it's... Passion in that ongoing dialogue, there's an
intentional to it, and it's easy to get
busy and lose sight of that or just
have it fall off the radar. So I
do believe it's
imperative that both parties
make a commitment to not let that happen.
And so that the employee doesn't just assume
the leader gonna do it, and the a
leader doesn't just assume, the employee bring it
up if it's important to him, let's just
recognize it's important. Yeah. But I think it's
an ongoing conversation. I think to there are
moments in time that are inflection points where
you're going to then decide what progress have
we made? What have we learned there over
some period of time, and, yeah, years is
a good period of time to give something
enough
donation if you will to unfold.
Whether that's a calendar year or 12 month
span. I do believe that that is
an appropriate time frame, but I do also
very strongly believe that it can't be something
you put in a box and say, we'll
talk about this 12 months from yeah. And
honestly, you say no. Sparked a thought around
how you and I. And again, a lot
of the dialogue that we have here comes
from our daily experience in our
organization, but this is applicable to any industry,
any place doesn't matter if you're running on
a particular operating system or not, we use
the concept of having quarterly
conversations. And so maybe you can express a
little bit around how those come to fruition.
And for me, that gives me a lot
of...
Grace and the dialogue to say, here is
what I'm passionate about. Here are the things
I wanna focus on. Here is how I
need you as a leader to show up
for me? Can you maybe me talk a
little? I can talk about it. I can
talk about it with the understanding that I
need a little grace because I am been
really good to last too. First of doing
my,
but they are on the calendar this year.
Yeah. I mean, the idea in Os of
a quarterly is really a 90 minute block.
To get out of the office get away
from the day to day. It's not a
performance review. It's really a 2 way conversation
about how am I doing? And how are
you doing and how are we doing together
in sense. And what's
upcoming relative to how you wanna grow professionally,
and I also like to look at where
people want to personally. That's a decision that
everyone makes
unique to themselves as to whether they wanna
share that or not. And then, you know,
the question becomes as a leader, what can
I do to support the your efforts in
that regard?
And it is a rich conversation. It's I've
had some pretty significant breakthroughs in those conversations,
with the people that I work with, both
learnings for myself and quite frankly understanding for
them, and it gives you a chance to
course correct, back to the fact that it's
an iterative process. If I put it a
box, and I revisit it once a year.
That's too far of a time frame to
course correct. You know. You could be way
off course.
And so the quarterly really does help calibrate
more
nuanced course corrections to get us back on
track.
Well, and for me, you know, being
participant in quarterly
with you, and then also having individuals that
I have quarterly least with. It's 1 of
the best opportunities
to take a break as you said from
the business and really just talk about where
the person's passions lie. And have that dialogue
on where they wanna go and as a
leader how you can help them do that.
And I as I shared, I think it's
applicable no matter the industry no matter your
business size you can take 90 minutes a
quarter for those that you directly support to
have that conversation, and it does give you
that pivot point. Of making sure that where
their passions and their talents that they're aligning
to their purpose and then ultimately,
hopefully, Right? To get that point of Utopia
where all 3 things come together.
I do wanna touch on that. Alright. You
know, we talked about... This podcast not sounding
like everything's rainbow bone roses. Yeah. It's not.
And I wanna talk about the reality of
all these wonderful things, which is it's hard.
It's really hard.
And I'm actually suspect that some entrepreneurs or
business owners don't wanna go down this path
because it is hard, and it's like, whoa,
that's messy.
I don't know that I wanna know all
that information that a person. I don't know
that I want the responsibility then to have
to, you know, just come here and do
your job, basically, is the mindset
of so many businesses, and that's your stuff
to work out on your own time, not
here.
Now, as a leader, I've chosen a different
path, Right. We've chosen a different path as
an organization. But I I think it's really
important to call out the fact that it's
hard. Mh.
And it's hard on 2 fronts. It's hard
as the leader
because
in my experience, you're getting people perhaps,
to think about things they would not have
thought about on their own and kind of
opening a bit of a pandora box. Yeah.
That idea idea Yeah. And it's like generic
needs. Wait a minute. Yeah. And so you
do open yourself up in essence to...
Some conversations that may not be in alignment
with what you as the leader and the
entrepreneur we're hoping for.
But the other piece that's hard and this
is equally as challenging is, I think it's
hard on the person
that is exploring this
and
the ultimate
challenge in pursuing your passion,
and your purpose and aligning that in a
way that creates value that you get compensated
well for
is that the work itself is hard. Mh.
And I see too many people get a
picture and a glimpse of what
that looks like
and get very excited about it. And then
when it's time to do the work
for lack of better word peace out.
And and they're like, hey,
you know, it's the old adage of I
wanna
be healthy and fit, you know, back to
your. We're not doing New Year's. Resolutions appreciation.
That's right. But all the things that fall
on that list
are with the best of intentions just as
this whole
experience of identifying all of this is the
best of intentions, but that for the person
that's in the business, you know, not the
leader. It's hard for the leader. But for
the employee that has decided this is something
they want to engage in and I think
they really can run up against. Wow, this
is hard, which then brings you back to
where you started, which is,
Is this really what you're passionate about? Right.
And is this really where you feel called?
That's the piece that
I see as well. And so as a
entrepreneur or business owner just and again, the
full disclosure category, this isn't in Rainbows and
Roses is
By adopting this type of approach in your
culture, you are opening yourselves up in my
opinion to some challenges that most businesses might
not face.
And
at the same time though,
for those employees that do the work and
push through the hard easy,
you as an entrepreneur will see some amazing
transformations and people.
And to me, that is worth it. That
is worth all the hard work. That's worth
some of the heartache.
That's worth some of the challenges. That come
and the disruptions that may come to the
business
to see people in essence transformed.
And again, I can speak to my own
daughter who went through this process and left
our organization after 8 years. And she is
pursuing her passion. She's pursuing quite frankly something
that I think she was built to do
at a very young age, which is... I've
told her repeatedly, you're so fortunate
to be in alignment with that. And she
still has challenges every day. And so that
doesn't mean all of this being discovered will
eliminate challenges in your life, it will just
illuminate the challenges that need to be overcome
and trust
that it'll give you the energy, if and
the fort
to move through those challenges.
Nah. Well, a lot to unpack in the
dialogue around where...
Your passion. About this. You will you are,
which is wonderful.
I see it every day because I get
the good fortune of working with you and
it is. It's a hard decision as a
leader to
jump into really the deep end with people.
And let them
explore and have conversations. That they might be
having internally with themselves, they might be having
it with someone outside of the organization, but
encouraging that dialogue
it kind is like a unicorn in business
for those that I've encountered. And so it's
an opportunity to lean into it. It might
not be the right decision for you, but
it is something to consider how as a
individual as a leader as a business owner,
you want to support that dialogue for those
that are in your community and your pod.
And so we hope that you found the
information that we shared with you insightful.
Hopefully, there's a negative or 2 that you
can take away as you're working to build
your winning culture. And ultimately, we hope that
your passion and your purpose and your talents
are aligned, and we look forward to having
more
conversation around how these things come to fruition
over the course of several episodes to come,
and 1 of the things I think is
important just to know, again, Tim's at it,
but I think needs to be reiterated. It
is hard. It's a hard decision to make,
and you might come across some points that
you weren't quite ready for yet, But I
will. That You will. You will. Okay. Let's
just... You won't... You will. That might You
will. You will. I promise. And allowing those
individuals to step into that to jump in
the deepen with you. As Tim said, those
experiences are very fruitful, and you might be
ready for that in a couple years, she
you might be ready for it now. Yeah.
Well, thank you, Amanda. Again, I do appreciate
you leaning into pursuing your passion and purpose
here as we do this
journey in business. In life together. So I
thank you for that, and I would just
say before I end this podcast.
My last comment on this is I appreciate
the inspiration you provide my life and for
business owners that choose this path, you will
be inspired. Again, you will suffer heartache, but
you will be inspired in the inspiration will
lift you up in ways that you can't
imagine and my encouragement is be around people
that inspire you you inspire me. So thinking
that? That's very good. And that's a wrap
for this episode of winning through culture. Thanks
for being with us today. Be well.
That Thanks for joining us for another episode
of winning through culture.
Until next time, stay intentional, be impactful.
Because you're culture matters.