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Have you ever had a moment where you remember something so vividly,

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so clearly that to you, there's no way that that didn't happen.

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And then the person that you share it with looks at you blankly and says that I never said that.

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If you've ever been in a relationship with somebody who is emotionally immature

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or on this scale of narcissistic traits and tendencies, you probably know that

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feeling more than others.

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And it's that dizzying sense that your reality is starting to slip.

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And I want to say right up front, especially if there's anyone new listening,

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I am acknowledging memory is fallible. It is not perfect.

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We all forget things and we mix up the details. Was it spring or fall?

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Was it the lake or the beach, Memorial Day or Labor Day? Was I wearing the green shirt or the red shirt?

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Probably green. I don't look that good in red, but that's part of being human.

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Humans have imperfect memories and we all misremember dates and details and locations.

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And we all forget things that mattered more to someone else than they did to

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us. that's normal. That's human.

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But in healthy relationships, when memories differ, it can sound more like,

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huh, I don't remember that, but tell me more.

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Of course, I believe you, but that's just not what I remember. Or you know what?

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I am thinking of something completely different. We must have experienced it

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differently, but tell me more about what you remember. Because there's a key component here.

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In the world of emotional maturity, there is room for two truths.

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And I know that can be so difficult for people where they say there must be

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one absolute truth. Well, I'll slow down a little bit. Let's talk about that.

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Because what we're talking about today isn't the normal give and take of memory,

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where if there is something that we could agree on,

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it just takes a little bit of patience and calm to be able to tap into that

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prefrontal cortex where the logical part of our brain resides and not just stay

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all up in our fight or flight response in that amygdala.

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We're talking about what happens when your memory or your sense of reality has

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been challenged and questioned so often that you start to genuinely believe

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that you are the problem, that you must be losing your mind,

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that somehow you're the only person who can't seem to get the story straight.

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And I see it literally every day in my office, I guess not literally,

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not over the weekends, but I see it Monday through Friday in my office.

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And I'm going to even throw down my badge as the self-proclaimed reality police

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because I talk to people for a living and tell you there are really two kinds

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of people who come in questioning their memory.

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There are those in healthy relationships who notice that they're starting to forget things.

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They bring it up carefully, thoughtfully.

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We talk about what's been happening in their life. And more often than not,

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we find that they may simply be overwhelmed, stressed, spread thin,

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emotionally overloaded.

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They're not sleeping well. They're not hydrating. They're not exercising.

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They might be in a job that they really don't like and they thought it would end by now.

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Their memory isn't necessarily failing, but their body is trying to slow them down.

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It might be a gentle nudge toward rest, self-care, maybe even finding a hobby again, getting a pet.

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And those people usually have partners who meet them with kindness or they're

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supportive or they're curious.

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It's like they're packing their own backpack full of rocks before a long hike

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when their partner's saying, are you sure you need to carry all those rocks?

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So it's heavy, sure, but the person thinks that's manageable and it's their own backpack to carry.

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Then there's the other kind, the ones in relationships with emotionally immature

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or narcissistic partners.

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They don't come in gently questioning their memory. They come in terrified,

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anxious, intense, shaky.

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They're convinced because they've heard it for so long that they are losing

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their sanity. And their stories are hauntingly similar.

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They've been told over and over again that their reality is wrong,

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that what they remember didn't happen, that they're too sensitive,

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that they're too emotional, that they're too dramatic.

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This can be the male or the female. It can be whoever is in that one down position

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in this narcissistic or emotionally immature relationship.

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And here's what's even more painful. The person that they turn to the most for

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comfort and connection is often the very one who is rewriting their reality.

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It's like they walk into my office and they're actually carrying not just one

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heavy backpack full of rocks, but they have two.

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And if I were to ask them about the second one, they say, oh,

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that one's my partner's. They asked me to carry it. They had me carry it around

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everywhere. They said it would be good for me.

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They actually packed it and packed it even heavier because apparently when I

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told them it was too heavy, I was just complaining.

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That's more of like what we're talking about today. When love starts to feel

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like labor and when connection starts to cost you your clarity,

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when somebody else's comfort starts to outweigh your truth.

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But in relationships with extremely emotionally immature people or those with

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strong narcissistic traits or tendencies, and those relationships,

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disagreements, and memory don't happen occasionally, they are constant. They become patterns.

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And they become these patterns where your memories are dismissed,

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your feelings are minimized, your reality is corrected, and ultimately their version is final.

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And you often find yourself apologizing for even bringing something up when

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you are attempting connection.

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It's not because they're searching for truth, but because acknowledging your

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version threatens their sense of control.

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It's that zero-sum game. If you have an opinion or a thought that is different

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than theirs, then you must think yours is right and theirs is wrong.

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They can't hold space for two different thoughts or opinions or memories.

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Your memory becomes a problem to be eliminated, not a story to be understood.

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Today, we're going to look at how emotionally immature people bend reality to

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avoid discomfort, how they use denial and confusion as control,

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and how little by little that conditioning teaches you to distrust yourself.

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But more importantly, we'll also talk about what it takes to step back into

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your own truth, to tap back into your intuition, and to remember that you are

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and always have been the foremost authority on you.

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So we're going to talk about that and so much more coming up on today's episode

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of Waking Up to Narcissism.

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Hey everybody, welcome to Waking Up to Narcissism. I am your host,

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Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. and follow me wherever you can follow me.

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Follow me around if you see me walking down the street or follow me on Instagram

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at virtual.couch, on TikTok at virtualcouch.

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Find me on Substack. There is so much content being put out on Substack.

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And if you like short bits of content, ever an occasional long story,

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a little bit of video, then go to substack.com slash thevirtualcouch.

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And I have introduced a paid subscription version for a very small fee.

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I think it's slightly more than one morning energy drink or coffee,

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then you will get access to a lot of information.

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One of the projects I'm working on and sharing a lot more on Substack to my

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paid feed is about raising your emotional baseline, that self-care is not selfish

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and what that really looks like.

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And I want your questions. I want your marriage questions. I want your mental health questions.

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I would love those because I have a lot of question and answer episodes coming

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up soon and get those in now.

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And if you're interested in working with me, I on occasion do have an opening

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and I really am appreciating working with people who are reaching out saying

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that they have resonated with the content that I've shared on the podcast.

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It has really been some good work to do today.

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I want to start with a story that will set the stage for today's topic.

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We'll call it The Night Everything Changed, or So She Thought.

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This is based on a combination of clients. And we will, let's not go with Jack and Jill today.

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Today, we will go with Pam and Jim. Pam still remembers that night like it was etched in her bones.

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Her father had just been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and he'd been given 12 to 18 months to live.

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Her mom, a breast cancer survivor herself, had grown frail and withdrawn over the past few years.

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And the thought of losing her father and watching her mom face that loss alone

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just felt unbearable to Pam.

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Her husband, Jim, had been gone all week on a business trip.

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He had texted that he had landed and he said he was going to take a call in

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the parking lot before driving home.

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An hour had passed and then another. And by the time he walked through the door,

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the kids were finally asleep and she was barely holding herself together.

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So when he came in, she tried to talk and the words just spilled out in pieces.

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She had fear for her mom, grief for her dad, confusion about what came next.

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Jim looked pretty frustrated and honestly, a little bit disappointed.

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We find out much down the road in therapy that he had put off coming home because

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he didn't really enjoy the time putting the kids to bed because it was so chaotic.

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He had anticipated coming home and being intimate with Pam.

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But at that time, she could not hold it together. That's not what she was thinking

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about. She just sobbed. I don't know what I'm going to do when my dad's gone.

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What am I going to do with my mom? And he sighed.

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Don't worry about it. My mom was fine when my dad passed. your mom's going to be fine.

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And she tried to accept that, but she couldn't stop crying. So then he said,

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okay, I don't know if it would make you feel better.

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She can come live with us. I'm sure we can make it work.

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Now in that moment, something inside of her exhaled and relief flooded in because

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it felt like he got it. He was there for her.

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He said the things that she needed most to hear.

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So she threw her arms around him. She whispered, thank you so much.

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And they ended up sharing an intimate evening together.

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She remembered thinking, you know what, maybe this is what a partnership really means.

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Maybe you have to get to these depths of despair in order to truly grow together.

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He saw me. He was there for me.

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That night transformed grief into connection.

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At least that's how Pam remembered it.

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Now, fast forward three years later, her dad lived much longer than expected. It was deemed a miracle.

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But then when he finally passed, she found herself reflecting on how grateful

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she was for her husband's support, for how he had promised to make space for her mom.

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Because over the last two or three years, Pam would mention comments when my

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mom comes to live with us, or they would be out looking at furniture and she

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would say, man, I wonder if my mom would like this.

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And Jim didn't say much, but often he wasn't a man of many words.

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So she didn't think much of it. But then...

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On one particular night, after her dad had passed and the dust had settled just

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a bit, one night over dinner, she said softly, Hey, I'm so glad we talked about

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my mom moving in so long ago, and I appreciate the space that you've given me

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to prepare for it, plan for it.

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I know it's going to be an adjustment, but it means so much that you offered

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it. You can maybe guess what's coming next.

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He looked up, blank.

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What are you talking about? And she said, that night you got home from your

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trip, after we had talked about my dad's cancer diagnosis, and I was so upset,

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And you said that whenever this moment came, you said that my mom could move in.

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Oh, I never said that. He said, you know, you say so many random things about your mom.

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I must have just nodded along because I can't keep track of what your mom's

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up to or what you and your mom are fighting about or arguing about or what you're into. I can't keep up.

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She was devastated, but she waited just for a tiny hint of recognition,

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maybe a flicker of memory, nothing.

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He shrugged. So I have no idea what you're remembering, but I didn't agree to

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that. As a matter of fact, that's ridiculous.

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And your mom's a grown woman that she has plenty of money. I'm sure she'll be fine.

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This was the moment that Pam started to question her sanity because she knew she was not making it up.

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She could picture the room and

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the clothes she wore and the way she cried and the way that he held her.

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And it was one of the most vivid emotional memories of her life.

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But he didn't just disagree. He denied the event altogether.

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And in that instant, she felt the floor tilt beneath her.

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Because if he didn't remember then who was right, could she even trust?

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Her own memory because she knows this feeling well from her 20 plus years of marriage.

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Was she exaggerating? Did she make the whole thing up?

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That's the seed of narcissistic reality distortion.

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When the story of what happened becomes split into two parallel versions,

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and you're told that yours is wrong.

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And I'm not a big all or nothing fan, but it's always wrong.

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So today I want to dive deeper into what happens when your memory and someone else's denial collide.

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We're going to talk about why chronic invalidation can make you question your

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own reality and how prolonged emotional chaos doesn't just change how you think

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or how you feel. it rewires your brain and your nervous system.

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And we're going to touch on cognitive dissonance, what that is and why it makes you doubt yourself.

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And more importantly, how the emotionally immature individual or narcissist

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rewrites history to avoid accountability and projects it over to you because

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typically you'll take it. You'll carry that torch.

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And then what that trauma does to memory and focus and why your body often senses

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the truth well before your mind does.

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And we'll spend a little more time talking about gray rocking.

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I got some good feedback from that after the attack surface episode,

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where I touched on it briefly, of how that can protect your peace when leaving

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isn't yet or isn't an option.

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Because the moment you begin to quietly say, okay, I do trust my memory,

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even if they don't, that's the moment that you begin to wake up to your own

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healing and your path to emotional maturity.

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Okay, but before we get back to the story though, let's go full psychology nerd here.

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What Pam experienced isn't rare in relationships with narcissistic or emotionally

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immature partners, it's this form of reality distortion when somebody's need

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to control the emotional environment

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is so strong that it then attacks and bends their shared reality.

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Let's look at what's happening beneath the surface. I mentioned cognitive distortion.

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Her brain, Pam's brain in that moment, couldn't hold both truths.

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I remember this vividly, and he says it never happened.

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That clash, that tension becomes unbearable, and the brain's instinct is to

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resolve it by blaming itself. so she starts thinking maybe I overreacted maybe

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I'm too sensitive maybe I'm the one that misunderstood and.

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Because if it can be a me issue, I can fix it. If not, I don't know what to do with that.

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That's cognitive dissonance. And it's one of the most powerful psychological

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tools of control, even when it's not intentional.

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And I shared more about this on a previous episode of why our minds resist changing

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beliefs, even in the face of new evidence that might be blatantly obvious or

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scientific or right in front of you.

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Because this is where the brain truly is just an organ full of impulses and

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connections trying to filter thoughts and consciousness just to keep us alive.

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And this is why it becomes so important to be able to step outside of ourselves

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and see ourselves in the context of each moment.

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Do a little self-confrontation. It's not that scary.

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And realize it's okay to admit fault, to acknowledge error, to say, I didn't know that.

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But apparently, our little pink squishy brains are going to continue to default

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to immaturity and safety, because that's what got us to the point where we're at.

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That was our inner child that kept us alive by doing these immature things.

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But it is time to let the big kid take over.

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Now, in this previous episode that I'm mentioning, I went into great lengths

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to establish that our brains are essentially a don't-get-kill device,

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constantly scanning for threats

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to our survival, including threats to our beliefs and our identity.

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Now, let me tell you what happens when that system encounters information that

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contradicts what we believe to be true.

00:14:40.243 --> 00:14:42.943
When we come across information that challenges our beliefs,

00:14:43.223 --> 00:14:46.463
we experience cognitive dissonance.

00:14:46.903 --> 00:14:50.963
There was a psychologist named Leon Festiger, and he first described this phenomenon,

00:14:50.963 --> 00:14:55.283
and he noticed that holding contradictory ideas creates a genuinely uncomfortable

00:14:55.283 --> 00:14:58.103
feeling, like mental, static, or psychological tension.

00:14:58.883 --> 00:15:02.163
And let me give you some everyday examples. These are some that I shared on

00:15:02.163 --> 00:15:03.743
that previous episode of what this feels like.

00:15:04.063 --> 00:15:06.623
Let's say that you believe that you are an environmentally conscious person,

00:15:06.783 --> 00:15:12.543
but you just drove your gas-guzzling SUV to Starbucks for a coffee in a disposable cup.

00:15:13.063 --> 00:15:17.263
You believe you're a patient parent, but you just yelled at your kids over something trivial.

00:15:17.643 --> 00:15:21.023
You believe you are financially responsible, but your credit card statement

00:15:21.023 --> 00:15:24.563
shows that you spent $300 on things that you really didn't need.

00:15:24.623 --> 00:15:25.503
You can't even remember what they were.

00:15:25.903 --> 00:15:30.103
You consider yourself a very healthy disciplined eater, but you just polished

00:15:30.103 --> 00:15:32.283
off a sleeve of Girl Scout cookies, then mints.

00:15:32.463 --> 00:15:35.823
Who hasn't? They were fresh out of the freezer while watching Netflix all day.

00:15:36.143 --> 00:15:42.063
In each case, there's a clash between your self-image, who you think you are, and your behavior.

00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:45.140
Or between what you think you believe and what you actually do.

00:15:45.300 --> 00:15:49.560
And that uncomfortable, squirmy feeling you get, that is cognitive dissonance.

00:15:49.680 --> 00:15:52.560
It's important to just acknowledge it, let it in, sit with it for a moment.

00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:55.580
Here's what's fascinating, though. That discomfort isn't just annoying.

00:15:56.180 --> 00:15:59.840
It actually, if we're looking deep circuitry of the brain, is perceived as a

00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.000
threat by our don't-get-kill device brain.

00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:05.880
Because remember, our ancestors, if they constantly questioned their beliefs

00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:07.720
and changed their minds, they may not have survived.

00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:12.380
If those berries were poisonous once, if our ancestor then said,

00:16:12.640 --> 00:16:18.580
you know, maybe they've changed, then they eat those berries again, they're not around.

00:16:19.140 --> 00:16:22.500
So when we encounter contradictory information, our psychological protection

00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:24.700
system kicks in and it says, this is dangerous.

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.840
We need to resolve this conflict immediately if we want to survive.

00:16:28.380 --> 00:16:32.520
Now, one might think the logical solution would be to examine the new information

00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:35.060
objectively and update our beliefs if the evidence warrants it.

00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:36.360
That is the evolved brain.

00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:41.360
But our brain's primary job is not to be logical. It's not even to laugh or

00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.260
to love. It's first and foremost to survive, to keep us alive.

00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:47.340
And part of that's feeling psychologically safe. So instead of changing our

00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:49.500
beliefs, our mind gets creative about protecting them.

00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:53.020
It's important to note that we all experience cognitive dissonance.

00:16:53.180 --> 00:16:58.100
That's okay. We experience it every day, whether or not we are aware of it. Every single day.

00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:01.660
Your brain is a prediction engine. It does not like discomfort.

00:17:01.940 --> 00:17:04.880
It is desperate for certainty. It does not like tension.

00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:09.660
So it doesn't want to hold to competing realities.

00:17:09.980 --> 00:17:14.220
It also doesn't want to eat Brussels sprouts, but you don't have to do everything

00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:17.440
that your brain says. That's part of the emotional maturation process.

00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.520
But what it's going to try to do is do mental gymnastics to make the discomfort

00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:23.960
go away. And most often it does that by turning blame inward.

00:17:24.923 --> 00:17:28.423
In Pam's case, she knew she remembered that night. She remembered the tears,

00:17:28.563 --> 00:17:31.763
the conversation, the relief she felt when he said that her mother could live with him.

00:17:32.243 --> 00:17:35.423
But when he said it never happened, her brain hit a wall.

00:17:36.483 --> 00:17:40.743
Two completely conflicting truths. I remember this vividly. He says it never happened.

00:17:41.223 --> 00:17:45.523
And that clash, that dissonance is unbearable until it's not,

00:17:45.643 --> 00:17:48.943
until you get the tools to recognize it's okay for me to have my opinion.

00:17:49.463 --> 00:17:52.543
It is actually okay in the scenario for him to have his as well.

00:17:53.478 --> 00:17:56.798
I can now be curious about his opinion. There might not be a lot of surface

00:17:56.798 --> 00:17:59.358
underneath his opinion because it's just something he's saying.

00:17:59.518 --> 00:18:03.938
Because if he just says it, then I will run with it. I will take ownership of

00:18:03.938 --> 00:18:06.758
it. Then I will then say, okay, I guess my mom's not moving in.

00:18:07.338 --> 00:18:10.878
Her brain does what all of ours are wired to do. It looks for a way to make

00:18:10.878 --> 00:18:14.338
it make sense. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Maybe he's right. Maybe I overreacted.

00:18:14.698 --> 00:18:17.858
And it's painful, but it feels safer in that moment to believe that she's the

00:18:17.858 --> 00:18:20.258
problem. Because if she's the problem, then there's something she can do about it.

00:18:20.538 --> 00:18:23.718
She can try harder. She can apologize. She can fix it. She can try to convince

00:18:23.718 --> 00:18:25.698
him. She can try to reconstruct the memory in the night.

00:18:26.238 --> 00:18:29.598
But if it's not her, if he really did say something deeply meaningful just to

00:18:29.598 --> 00:18:31.778
end the conversation or to go to bed or to have sex with her,

00:18:32.358 --> 00:18:36.618
then what does that mean about her marriage? And what does that mean about her entire reality?

00:18:37.438 --> 00:18:40.798
This is where cognitive dissonance is more than just a mental process.

00:18:40.798 --> 00:18:42.478
It becomes a form of emotional survival.

00:18:42.898 --> 00:18:46.518
Because if she lets herself believe that her husband could look into her tear-streaked

00:18:46.518 --> 00:18:50.758
face that night, hearing about her father's terminal cancer and say whatever

00:18:50.758 --> 00:18:52.998
he needed to, just to get what he wanted.

00:18:53.658 --> 00:18:56.338
Then she has to start asking, well, what else has he done with that?

00:18:56.638 --> 00:19:01.218
What else did she believe was connection was actually more out of convenience or control?

00:19:01.718 --> 00:19:04.358
What else did she think was safety, but was control?

00:19:04.918 --> 00:19:08.478
And that realization that her memories might not match the truth of her relationship

00:19:08.478 --> 00:19:12.418
can be the moment where, go with me on this one.

00:19:12.498 --> 00:19:15.258
If you've ever ridden one of those rides like Tower of Terror or Guardians of

00:19:15.258 --> 00:19:18.118
the Galaxy at Disneyland, I remember one called the Big Dipper,

00:19:18.118 --> 00:19:21.098
I think at Santa Cruz boardwalk where you go up really fast,

00:19:21.118 --> 00:19:24.098
you, you stay for a second or in the bottom falls out.

00:19:24.758 --> 00:19:29.418
And then you let out a scream, maybe, maybe even the first time,

00:19:29.498 --> 00:19:32.558
just a tiny, tiny little bit of pee, but you quickly spill a little bit of water on you.

00:19:32.778 --> 00:19:34.698
And, and on the way out of the ride, you act surprised like,

00:19:34.758 --> 00:19:36.178
oh man, I didn't realize I spilled my drink.

00:19:36.538 --> 00:19:39.678
Then your little nephew says, uncle Tony, though, the lid is still on the bottle

00:19:39.678 --> 00:19:42.138
of water. How could it have spilled? And you shoot him a look like,

00:19:42.558 --> 00:19:44.178
hey, I know things about you too, you little brat.

00:19:45.205 --> 00:19:48.825
I mean, hypothetically, but in this situation, the bottom falls out from under

00:19:48.825 --> 00:19:51.585
this woman and it can really feel devastating.

00:19:52.225 --> 00:19:55.225
I made this reference probably several times, but it's like the movie,

00:19:55.325 --> 00:19:56.425
The Sixth Sense with Bruce Willis.

00:19:56.505 --> 00:19:59.365
If you've seen it, you remember that moment at the end when you find out,

00:19:59.585 --> 00:20:03.265
spoiler alert for a 30 year old movie, he's dead. He's been dead the entire time.

00:20:03.825 --> 00:20:07.165
And immediately your brain starts going, oh my gosh, it runs through the whole

00:20:07.165 --> 00:20:08.305
movie again, scene by scene.

00:20:08.405 --> 00:20:11.885
And you realize, oh, it actually meant something different than I thought.

00:20:11.885 --> 00:20:16.285
Now, my view the first time around was real, but then when I go back through

00:20:16.285 --> 00:20:17.245
it, whoa, that is different.

00:20:17.405 --> 00:20:20.345
That's what it can feel like when the fog of emotional immaturity starts to clear.

00:20:20.645 --> 00:20:23.645
You start replaying conversations and arguments and even tender moments,

00:20:23.745 --> 00:20:25.265
and you see them in a completely different light.

00:20:25.685 --> 00:20:28.905
And it's not because you're rewriting history, but because your brain is finally

00:20:28.905 --> 00:20:32.125
seeing it accurately without the distortion or the confusion or the constant

00:20:32.125 --> 00:20:36.265
pressure to make someone else comfortable, even at your own betrayal.

00:20:37.005 --> 00:20:42.885
And that realization can feel disorienting, dizzying. Some describe it as even being nauseating.

00:20:43.245 --> 00:20:45.725
Because once you start to see it clearly, you can't then see it.

00:20:45.805 --> 00:20:48.405
And at first, it's very scary. But over time, it is liberating.

00:20:48.545 --> 00:20:49.825
It's part of what's going to set you free.

00:20:50.565 --> 00:20:55.665
That is terrifying and the beginning of waking up. That's two different truths right there.

00:20:56.345 --> 00:20:59.905
So let's talk about what's actually happening when your reality starts to bend like that.

00:21:00.105 --> 00:21:04.205
When these moments that once felt true now feel off and you start wondering,

00:21:04.345 --> 00:21:06.065
have I been imagining all of this?

00:21:06.185 --> 00:21:10.065
Because there's a word for that experience. And it was the word of the year a few years ago.

00:21:10.325 --> 00:21:13.965
And it still gets tossed around quite a bit. That word, gaslighting.

00:21:14.445 --> 00:21:16.965
You probably already had an emotional reaction to that. When people hear the

00:21:16.965 --> 00:21:20.145
word gaslighting, they often imagine something sinister or calculated somebody

00:21:20.145 --> 00:21:23.325
deliberately twisting your words and their mustache or manipulating your mind

00:21:23.325 --> 00:21:24.245
like a villain in a movie.

00:21:24.505 --> 00:21:27.245
And sometimes it is that. It really is.

00:21:27.805 --> 00:21:30.005
I find that most of the time.

00:21:30.892 --> 00:21:35.032
That's probably fair to say, especially in the immature part of emotionally

00:21:35.032 --> 00:21:37.592
immature relationships. Gaslighting isn't a master plan.

00:21:37.912 --> 00:21:42.412
It's not strategic, but it is defensive and it is impulsive and it's immediate.

00:21:42.632 --> 00:21:46.352
It's what happens when someone's ego is so fragile. Their sense of self is so

00:21:46.352 --> 00:21:51.832
shaky that the thought of being wrong or causing pain feels unbearable.

00:21:52.092 --> 00:21:55.832
So rather than sit in that discomfort, their brain does something fascinating

00:21:55.832 --> 00:21:57.612
and tragic all at the same time.

00:21:58.132 --> 00:22:01.712
It rewrites reality to protect them from the emotional pain of accountability.

00:22:02.112 --> 00:22:05.752
You can think about it like this. If I admit I said something hurtful or that

00:22:05.752 --> 00:22:09.292
I forgot something important, I will die. I will be abandoned.

00:22:09.552 --> 00:22:13.012
I would have to confront uncomfortable feelings, guilt. There probably would

00:22:13.012 --> 00:22:14.532
be a dose of shame, imperfection.

00:22:15.072 --> 00:22:18.772
And for emotionally immature, narcissistic individuals, those feelings don't just sting.

00:22:18.892 --> 00:22:23.392
They threaten their entire existence, their sense of self, because it's based

00:22:23.392 --> 00:22:25.032
off of a false narrative.

00:22:25.312 --> 00:22:28.112
So their brain goes into self-protection mode. It edits the story.

00:22:28.252 --> 00:22:32.552
It rearranges the timeline. It smooths over the rough edges until they can look

00:22:32.552 --> 00:22:36.192
at themselves and think, no, I didn't do that. You must be mistaken.

00:22:36.872 --> 00:22:40.312
That must have been something that you remember, but I didn't say it.

00:22:41.192 --> 00:22:44.672
They aren't always aware they're doing it. It's automatic. It's impulsive. It's reactive.

00:22:45.072 --> 00:22:48.712
But the impact is the same. You doubt your memory, your perception,

00:22:48.832 --> 00:22:50.832
your sanity. And that's what makes gaslighting so destructive.

00:22:51.212 --> 00:22:54.392
You bring up something that hurt you, an event, a comment, a boundary was crossed.

00:22:54.392 --> 00:23:00.152
And instead of curiosity or empathy, you're met with a contradiction or a dismissal.

00:23:00.692 --> 00:23:02.552
And it's even turned around on you.

00:23:03.332 --> 00:23:08.492
If you're familiar with the acronym DARVO, deny, accuse, reverse the victim

00:23:08.492 --> 00:23:11.552
and the offender, you might bring something up and it's not only denied,

00:23:11.552 --> 00:23:13.992
but now you're blamed for it and you find yourself apologizing.

00:23:14.769 --> 00:23:18.009
You might hear that never happen. You're overreacting. You always twist things.

00:23:18.109 --> 00:23:19.569
You need to calm down. You're too sensitive.

00:23:20.009 --> 00:23:24.849
And those words in and of themselves can sound small, but their effect is massive.

00:23:25.209 --> 00:23:28.529
It's part of the death by a thousand cuts. Because every time you're told your

00:23:28.529 --> 00:23:32.289
reality is wrong, your brain learns, maybe I can't trust myself.

00:23:32.749 --> 00:23:37.689
And over time, that learning sticks. The stories we continually tell ourselves we believe.

00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:40.989
It changes the way you think, the way you remember, even the way that you feel

00:23:40.989 --> 00:23:41.929
the emotions in your body.

00:23:42.549 --> 00:23:45.209
To the emotionally immature person, gaslighting feels like self-preservation.

00:23:45.429 --> 00:23:48.249
Their nervous system interprets disagreement as danger and an attack.

00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:53.349
Not because you are attacking them, but because being wrong feels like annihilation.

00:23:53.769 --> 00:23:58.889
So they twist the story not to harm you necessarily, although there are examples where that happens.

00:23:59.009 --> 00:23:59.989
But then we're starting to dip

00:23:59.989 --> 00:24:03.929
more over into the psychopathy part of the personality disorder spectrum.

00:24:04.795 --> 00:24:07.595
But it's more to keep themselves from collapsing under shame.

00:24:07.795 --> 00:24:09.835
It's like watching somebody caught in this emotional earthquake.

00:24:10.015 --> 00:24:11.255
Their reality starts to shake.

00:24:11.375 --> 00:24:14.635
And instead of grounding themselves, they throw the blame at you,

00:24:14.815 --> 00:24:18.255
hoping that by destabilizing your world, then theirs will feel steady again.

00:24:18.895 --> 00:24:24.135
It's a false premise. It doesn't work. Or if it does, only for a short amount of time.

00:24:24.895 --> 00:24:28.755
Because stability built on denial always crumbles. And in the meantime,

00:24:28.995 --> 00:24:32.935
you're the one left sifting through the rubble, trying to make sense of what's true and what's not.

00:24:32.935 --> 00:24:36.055
I once had a client, a guy who came in just absolutely heartbroken,

00:24:36.155 --> 00:24:39.055
not because of an affair or a big betrayal, but it was over something small

00:24:39.055 --> 00:24:41.055
that just didn't feel small to him.

00:24:41.615 --> 00:24:44.595
He had said that years ago, early in his marriage, his wife had told him that

00:24:44.595 --> 00:24:48.775
she did not like long emotional texts and he needed to keep those to conversations

00:24:48.775 --> 00:24:52.555
with her, but yet he could rarely find time to connect.

00:24:52.895 --> 00:24:57.595
She was always busy, always on her phone. He had stopped sending them for nearly a decade.

00:24:57.795 --> 00:25:00.435
He would type out things that he wanted to say, moments of connection,

00:25:00.695 --> 00:25:04.095
gratitude, vulnerability, and then he would delete them or would keep them on a note.

00:25:04.695 --> 00:25:07.815
And he was thinking he's respecting our boundary and we'll talk about this later,

00:25:07.975 --> 00:25:09.435
but then later wouldn't happen.

00:25:09.655 --> 00:25:12.795
So one night after years of silence, he brought it up and he said how much he

00:25:12.795 --> 00:25:16.215
missed feeling close, how he stopped sharing that way because he remembers very

00:25:16.215 --> 00:25:18.675
vividly and clearly when she had asked him not to.

00:25:19.195 --> 00:25:22.795
And she looked at him totally calm and said, I never said that.

00:25:23.375 --> 00:25:26.615
He was stunned because he remembered that conversation in vivid detail,

00:25:26.915 --> 00:25:31.655
the setting, the tone, because that is why he hasn't done what he had done for

00:25:31.655 --> 00:25:35.155
so long, texting her emotional texts.

00:25:35.755 --> 00:25:38.875
And some were heavy and some were beautiful and amazing.

00:25:39.455 --> 00:25:43.355
But it sounds like in a moment where she did not like the way that felt,

00:25:43.375 --> 00:25:46.715
she said, I don't want you to ever do that again. And he respected that.

00:25:47.645 --> 00:25:51.005
That was just something she said in the moment, because when she said,

00:25:51.365 --> 00:25:55.085
I didn't say that, he genuinely wondered, did I imagine that whole thing?

00:25:55.465 --> 00:25:58.145
Because she sounded so certain. She sounded so confident.

00:25:58.565 --> 00:26:01.865
That's the power of gaslighting. It doesn't just distort one memory.

00:26:02.045 --> 00:26:03.925
It makes then you question your ability to remember anything.

00:26:04.385 --> 00:26:07.585
Now, what's happening inside the emotionally immature person's mind when they do this?

00:26:07.885 --> 00:26:12.165
Why do they seem so believable? And in this case, even serene when they're rewriting

00:26:12.165 --> 00:26:13.105
history right in front of you.

00:26:13.665 --> 00:26:19.965
This is one of my favorite but not talked about enough concepts of psychology, confabulation.

00:26:20.225 --> 00:26:24.445
Sounds like a fun board game, but confabulation is when the brain fills in gaps

00:26:24.445 --> 00:26:27.965
of memory with details that feel true even if they aren't.

00:26:28.525 --> 00:26:33.625
It's not lying necessarily in a deliberate sense. It's more like the mind's

00:26:33.625 --> 00:26:35.865
desperate attempt to create a story that feels coherent.

00:26:36.762 --> 00:26:40.342
They start to unconsciously invent a version of events that keeps their self-image intact.

00:26:40.502 --> 00:26:46.182
It's not necessarily about deceiving you, but it's about them protecting themselves,

00:26:46.482 --> 00:26:48.062
about staying intact for themselves.

00:26:48.362 --> 00:26:52.002
You can think of it like a psychological patchwork job.

00:26:52.542 --> 00:26:55.562
When the emotionally immature person feels shame or gets called out or senses

00:26:55.562 --> 00:26:59.122
that their image might crack, their brain rushes to cover that exposed spot.

00:26:59.402 --> 00:27:02.982
So they pull whatever material is nearby, a half-truth, a memory fragment,

00:27:03.122 --> 00:27:06.522
a new justification, and they stitch it right over the gap. It's quick and it's

00:27:06.522 --> 00:27:08.562
messy, but it holds for the moment.

00:27:08.922 --> 00:27:12.302
And that's how their entire sense of self starts to look like a patchwork quilt

00:27:12.302 --> 00:27:14.682
made of old scraps from every era of their life.

00:27:15.182 --> 00:27:18.242
There's a square from when they were the golden child, one from the breakup

00:27:18.242 --> 00:27:21.102
where they were the victim, another from a job where they needed to be the expert

00:27:21.102 --> 00:27:22.382
and their boss didn't appreciate them.

00:27:22.822 --> 00:27:26.302
Each patch serves a purpose. Each one says, see, I'm good. I'm fine.

00:27:26.462 --> 00:27:29.842
I didn't do that. I didn't say that. It was never my fault. That was your problem.

00:27:30.542 --> 00:27:33.602
If you've ever seen a real patchwork quilt made of old t-shirts and jeans,

00:27:33.762 --> 00:27:36.262
maybe even a retired leather jacket, you know that it tells a story.

00:27:36.942 --> 00:27:39.742
Every piece came from a different moment, a different version of that person.

00:27:39.862 --> 00:27:42.882
But when it's all stitched together, it doesn't tell one coherent story.

00:27:42.962 --> 00:27:46.462
It tells many, layered and overlapping and often contradictory.

00:27:47.182 --> 00:27:51.682
That's what it's like inside the emotionally immature person's mind or world.

00:27:52.022 --> 00:27:54.902
Their self-concept is stitched together from whatever narrative helped them

00:27:54.902 --> 00:27:57.842
survive in that moment. And it is not consistent.

00:27:58.422 --> 00:28:01.762
If they're around people who admire them, they'll sew on a confident, accomplished patch.

00:28:01.982 --> 00:28:04.982
If they're being challenged, they'll grab a victim patch. If somebody questions

00:28:04.982 --> 00:28:07.082
them, they'll reach for the authority patch or sometimes the,

00:28:07.222 --> 00:28:08.442
I'm just trying my best patch.

00:28:08.562 --> 00:28:11.822
Whatever they can find that helps them stay in that one-up position.

00:28:12.042 --> 00:28:17.822
Whatever keeps them safe from the unbearable feeling of being wrong or small or at fault.

00:28:18.322 --> 00:28:22.162
But here's the cost. That constant patching means that they're not going to be a victim patch.

00:28:23.070 --> 00:28:26.990
Consistent. Often they can't be dependable because consistency would mean owning

00:28:26.990 --> 00:28:31.010
one unified identity, one solid but flexible sense of self.

00:28:31.130 --> 00:28:34.270
And that would require acknowledging the pieces that you've tried to hide.

00:28:34.330 --> 00:28:37.250
So the quilt keeps growing stitched with contradictions. And to them,

00:28:37.310 --> 00:28:39.470
it looks like strength and adaptability and even charm.

00:28:39.770 --> 00:28:43.530
But to those around them, it's chaos because you don't know which version you're going to get.

00:28:44.010 --> 00:28:48.450
Now, other people that have patchwork quilts as well, they often find that person

00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:52.610
with the bigger patchwork quilt an authority figure or someone sent from God

00:28:52.610 --> 00:28:55.330
himself because it feels so familiar.

00:28:55.550 --> 00:29:00.210
But then to those of us that would love consistency, would love honesty, would love truth,

00:29:00.550 --> 00:29:05.450
then that patchwork quilt version of a person is really difficult to have a

00:29:05.450 --> 00:29:08.930
relationship with or a conversation with or to read about the things that they

00:29:08.930 --> 00:29:13.330
do because the lack of consistency is overwhelming at times.

00:29:13.490 --> 00:29:16.530
That's where the emotional confusion comes in because you can't connect deeply

00:29:16.530 --> 00:29:18.950
with somebody who's constantly changing fabric just to stay intact.

00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:20.390
Because here's the deeper truth.

00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:22.850
They don't experience reality directly the way most people do.

00:29:23.050 --> 00:29:28.030
Or at this point, I'm starting to wonder if it's actually less people who desire

00:29:28.030 --> 00:29:32.270
more of a solid sense of self-consistency, honesty, and the truth.

00:29:32.954 --> 00:29:36.754
In this scenario, the emotionally immature experience it through a lens of the false self.

00:29:37.014 --> 00:29:40.274
That forms in childhood. It's the version of them that learned early on,

00:29:40.394 --> 00:29:41.494
I have to be perfect to be loved.

00:29:41.714 --> 00:29:44.994
So their identity becomes built around protecting that illusion of perfection,

00:29:45.474 --> 00:29:49.114
of being right, admirable, blameless, in control.

00:29:49.434 --> 00:29:52.614
The person who solves everything, fixes everything, is never wrong.

00:29:52.774 --> 00:29:57.174
And their immaturity just comes screaming out, name-calling,

00:29:57.454 --> 00:30:00.234
anger, resentment, gaslighting.

00:30:00.594 --> 00:30:04.694
The false self is fragile. It cannot tolerate contradiction or shame.

00:30:05.034 --> 00:30:07.794
So whenever reality threatens it, when somebody says, you hurt me,

00:30:07.874 --> 00:30:12.034
or you forgot, or that isn't what you said before, their psyche scrambles to repair the story.

00:30:12.194 --> 00:30:15.334
And that's where confabulation comes in. And they confabulate in real time.

00:30:15.554 --> 00:30:19.554
They start to unconsciously invent a version of events that keeps their self-image intact to them.

00:30:19.934 --> 00:30:23.574
It's not about deceiving you. It's 100% them staying intact for them.

00:30:23.774 --> 00:30:26.074
To the outside world, these stories look like lies.

00:30:26.594 --> 00:30:28.594
To the partner on the receiving end, they feel like betrayal.

00:30:28.594 --> 00:30:32.174
But to the narcissist or the emotionally immature person, the new version of

00:30:32.174 --> 00:30:34.914
events is entirely real to them. They believe it in real time.

00:30:35.194 --> 00:30:38.394
They may not consciously remember what happened but their brain insists it couldn't

00:30:38.394 --> 00:30:41.014
have gone any other way than this way because if I did it.

00:30:41.830 --> 00:30:44.350
The way that you think I did it, I'd be the bad guy and I'm always the good

00:30:44.350 --> 00:30:49.430
guy. So you're the bad guy. And for them, being the bad guy is intolerable. It's not even an option.

00:30:49.790 --> 00:30:52.950
It's not just uncomfortable. It feels existentially threatening.

00:30:53.210 --> 00:30:57.670
So their mind bends reality, reshapes memory, the truth, even erases emotional

00:30:57.670 --> 00:30:59.470
moments that don't fit their internal script.

00:30:59.610 --> 00:31:03.230
They have to because their emotional survival depends on it.

00:31:04.250 --> 00:31:07.830
And unfortunately, people around them are similar.

00:31:08.430 --> 00:31:13.150
They also operate from this false self. So it feels that their nervous system

00:31:13.150 --> 00:31:19.690
familiar or they're decent, kind, nice people who believe people in positions

00:31:19.690 --> 00:31:21.430
of authority are telling the truth.

00:31:21.590 --> 00:31:26.310
So if their story switches every two minutes, there must be something that they

00:31:26.310 --> 00:31:29.590
are missing. But they need to put their faith and trust in this person because

00:31:29.590 --> 00:31:30.590
they're in a position of authority.

00:31:31.350 --> 00:31:34.310
That's why these stories, these confabulations are so inconsistent.

00:31:34.810 --> 00:31:37.990
Yesterday's version of reality contradicts today's, but they don't notice because

00:31:37.990 --> 00:31:40.170
they were never emotionally present in those moments to begin with.

00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:44.510
They weren't truly connected to the feeling, the empathy or the relational meaning of the interaction.

00:31:44.850 --> 00:31:48.650
They were connected to how it made them look and how they felt in the moment. Them.

00:31:49.210 --> 00:31:52.710
That's where the narcissism comes in. That's where the immaturity, the selfishness.

00:31:53.090 --> 00:31:55.950
That's why you can't reason your way into a shared truth with them because they're

00:31:55.950 --> 00:31:57.570
not defending facts. They're defending identity.

00:31:58.030 --> 00:32:01.150
And the moment you understand that, you stop trying to win the argument and

00:32:01.150 --> 00:32:02.850
start focusing on protecting your own clarity.

00:32:03.931 --> 00:32:06.951
That's the moment that you start to wake up, to move forward,

00:32:06.951 --> 00:32:09.611
because you can't build connection with somebody who's rewriting the story while

00:32:09.611 --> 00:32:10.511
you're still living in it.

00:32:10.711 --> 00:32:13.511
So at this point, I think it's easy to say, okay, I get it. Emotionally immature

00:32:13.511 --> 00:32:15.151
people, they rewrite reality.

00:32:15.411 --> 00:32:20.491
But what continues to make this so confusing and so damaging is that your body,

00:32:20.771 --> 00:32:24.531
your central nervous system gets pulled into that distortion as well.

00:32:25.071 --> 00:32:29.711
So this is where we turn to the field of interpersonal neurobiology, pioneered by a Dr.

00:32:29.851 --> 00:32:37.111
Dan Siegel. And I cannot get enough of Dan Siegel's work currently of co-regulating our emotions.

00:32:37.151 --> 00:32:41.771
It gives us such a clear lens because the truth is our nervous systems are constantly

00:32:41.771 --> 00:32:43.211
communicating with each other.

00:32:43.351 --> 00:32:46.831
When you spend enough time in close proximity to somebody, a partner,

00:32:47.031 --> 00:32:50.891
a parent, a boss, your nervous system starts sinking to theirs.

00:32:51.231 --> 00:32:56.831
It's called co-regulation. Now in healthy relationships, co-regulation feels like teamwork.

00:32:57.071 --> 00:33:00.511
Each person can lean on the other person without losing themselves and you can

00:33:00.511 --> 00:33:05.451
come home from a hard day and your partner's calm helps regulate your stress.

00:33:05.811 --> 00:33:09.071
It's like at times you're going to take turns being the steady one.

00:33:09.351 --> 00:33:12.951
Sometimes you'll both feel steady, but if one of you feels dysregulated,

00:33:13.171 --> 00:33:14.931
the other one is that calming presence.

00:33:15.151 --> 00:33:19.891
But in emotionally immature relationships, co-regulation often turns into dysregulation

00:33:19.891 --> 00:33:23.971
because one person typically ends up doing all the emotional labor because as

00:33:23.971 --> 00:33:27.751
it is passed over or diffused onto that person, typically the pathologically

00:33:27.751 --> 00:33:29.891
kind person, then they will take care of it.

00:33:29.991 --> 00:33:34.111
They will handle it. Then the mood of the emotionally immature or narcissistic

00:33:34.111 --> 00:33:39.751
person sets the tone, their comfort dictates your peace, and your body learns that pattern.

00:33:40.670 --> 00:33:43.810
And when you live like that long enough, your nervous system begins to stay

00:33:43.810 --> 00:33:46.230
on high alert. It's always scanning for emotional danger.

00:33:46.710 --> 00:33:50.410
So you start anticipating tension even before it arrives. You're not even aware

00:33:50.410 --> 00:33:54.010
of it because this is happening at the subconscious emotional level.

00:33:54.190 --> 00:33:58.030
Your heart rate rises when their car pulls in the driveway.

00:33:58.510 --> 00:34:02.790
Or you start speaking carefully, very cautiously, editing yourself mid-sentence

00:34:02.790 --> 00:34:06.190
because you realize, I don't want to say the wrong thing.

00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:12.550
That's not even overthinking. It's actually your body adapting to this chronic unpredictability.

00:34:12.730 --> 00:34:15.350
And over time, your brain begins to override your own signals.

00:34:15.430 --> 00:34:19.290
And you stop trusting your instincts because when you did, somebody told you

00:34:19.290 --> 00:34:20.730
that those instincts were incorrect.

00:34:21.210 --> 00:34:25.450
You stop noticing your gut reactions, your gut feelings, your visceral reactions

00:34:25.450 --> 00:34:27.730
because they were turned against you.

00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:31.210
You stop believing your emotions because they were labeled as too much.

00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:35.390
That's not weakness. That's a version of neuroplasticity.

00:34:35.570 --> 00:34:40.030
Your brain literally rewires itself to survive. in an environment where your

00:34:40.030 --> 00:34:43.270
reality is inconsistent and ultimately unsafe.

00:34:43.850 --> 00:34:48.030
So when you finally start waking up, when the fog lifts and you begin to see

00:34:48.030 --> 00:34:52.350
the truth, your mind and body aren't just confused, they're now disoriented.

00:34:52.770 --> 00:34:56.450
Because they've spent years sinking to someone else's emotional chaos,

00:34:56.450 --> 00:34:59.290
and now you're trying to find your own rhythm.

00:35:00.204 --> 00:35:03.224
And that's why it can feel confusing. It can feel like vertigo.

00:35:03.564 --> 00:35:06.944
That's why you question yourself. That's why your body sometimes doesn't believe

00:35:06.944 --> 00:35:08.324
what your brain knows to be true.

00:35:08.504 --> 00:35:13.504
But the beautiful part, the part that I want you to hear loud and clear is that your body can relearn.

00:35:13.784 --> 00:35:17.684
Your nervous system can find its rhythm again. And every moment you choose the

00:35:17.684 --> 00:35:23.124
calm over chaos, every time you set a boundary and you leave a situation that

00:35:23.124 --> 00:35:27.724
would normally cause you to dysregulate, every time you trust your gut over

00:35:27.724 --> 00:35:28.724
somebody else's denial,

00:35:29.004 --> 00:35:31.884
you're sowing a new pattern, one that's consistent.

00:35:31.884 --> 00:35:36.424
It's grounded and over time becomes authentically yours and who you are.

00:35:36.764 --> 00:35:42.004
So now imagine living in that kind of nervous system chaos for years or decades,

00:35:42.184 --> 00:35:45.644
constantly walking on eggshells, constantly trying to predict which version

00:35:45.644 --> 00:35:46.724
of somebody that you'll get today.

00:35:47.144 --> 00:35:50.944
That kind of prolonged emotional stress doesn't just wear you down.

00:35:50.944 --> 00:35:53.024
It reshapes and rewires your brain.

00:35:53.204 --> 00:35:56.804
When you live in a state of chronic relational stress, the kind that maps onto

00:35:56.804 --> 00:36:01.024
what's often called complex post-traumatic stress disorder, or CPTSD,

00:36:01.484 --> 00:36:04.004
your body never really comes down from this high alert.

00:36:04.464 --> 00:36:07.764
Your stress system, the one that's supposed to spike in short bursts to keep

00:36:07.764 --> 00:36:11.944
you safe, it stays revved up like a Ferrari engine that never turns off.

00:36:12.736 --> 00:36:18.276
And when that happens, it starts to affect one very important part of your brain, the hippocampus.

00:36:18.596 --> 00:36:22.536
The hippocampus is a little seahorse-shaped region that helps you form new memories.

00:36:22.976 --> 00:36:26.676
It helps you store memories, short-term memory, and it keeps track of context,

00:36:26.956 --> 00:36:28.876
the where and the when of life events.

00:36:29.116 --> 00:36:33.136
But under chronic stress, that area gets flooded with stress hormones like cortisol.

00:36:33.396 --> 00:36:37.456
And so over time, it literally starts to shrink, and its communication with

00:36:37.456 --> 00:36:38.836
the rest of the brain becomes disrupted.

00:36:38.836 --> 00:36:43.216
And that's why people who live in these chronic states of stress and worry and

00:36:43.216 --> 00:36:49.276
anxiety or people that are suffering from CPTSD often describe their minds as

00:36:49.276 --> 00:36:53.476
foggy and their memory is not good and their memory is really bad.

00:36:53.816 --> 00:36:57.036
They'll say things like, I know we had a conversation, but I just I can't seem

00:36:57.036 --> 00:37:00.756
to find it in my head or remember the feeling, but not the details or everything

00:37:00.756 --> 00:37:02.416
from that time just kind of blurs together.

00:37:02.416 --> 00:37:06.696
And it's not because they're careless or too emotional, but it's because their

00:37:06.696 --> 00:37:09.996
brain has been in survival mode, storing threats, not details.

00:37:10.376 --> 00:37:13.356
Your mind can't record clearly when it's trying to keep you safe.

00:37:13.516 --> 00:37:15.676
And that's where this gets even more fascinating.

00:37:15.876 --> 00:37:21.136
And hopefully it starts to sound hopeful because that same mechanism that wires

00:37:21.136 --> 00:37:25.016
the stress pattern into place is also what is going to help you unwire it.

00:37:25.296 --> 00:37:28.256
And there's a phrase in neuroscience. You've probably heard it.

00:37:28.396 --> 00:37:32.116
I love quoting it whenever I can. The neurons that fire together wire together.

00:37:32.416 --> 00:37:35.656
And it actually comes from a psychologist, Donald Hebb. And it basically means

00:37:35.656 --> 00:37:38.976
that every time two neurons activate at the same time, then the connection between

00:37:38.976 --> 00:37:43.716
them gets stronger because the brain loves efficiency. It loves to skip steps.

00:37:43.856 --> 00:37:46.656
That's why we form habitual patterns of thought or behavior,

00:37:46.656 --> 00:37:48.456
because it takes less electrical activity.

00:37:48.736 --> 00:37:52.196
So if certain thoughts and emotions and reactions happen together enough times,

00:37:52.456 --> 00:37:53.776
your brain says, I got it.

00:37:53.976 --> 00:37:57.136
These are linked together. And before long, they fire automatically together.

00:37:57.736 --> 00:38:01.416
Now let's connect this all back to the emotionally immature relationship.

00:38:02.284 --> 00:38:07.144
If you've spent years in a dynamic where your partner's sigh means danger or

00:38:07.144 --> 00:38:10.604
their silence means that I know where this is going, but pretty soon I'm going

00:38:10.604 --> 00:38:13.864
to have to smooth things over and that could mean whatever it's going to mean.

00:38:14.144 --> 00:38:16.064
Your brain has created a shortcut.

00:38:16.804 --> 00:38:20.364
Sigh, tension, appease, temporary calm.

00:38:20.904 --> 00:38:25.524
And that sequence becomes a very well-traveled highway in your nervous system.

00:38:25.904 --> 00:38:29.864
And your body starts running that loop before your conscious mind even joins

00:38:29.864 --> 00:38:34.084
the conversation. That's when people will say things like, it's like my body

00:38:34.084 --> 00:38:35.584
was reacting before I could even think.

00:38:36.144 --> 00:38:39.264
The more you travel that route, the faster and smoother it gets.

00:38:39.384 --> 00:38:42.224
That's neuroplasticity at work, but it's going in the wrong direction.

00:38:42.744 --> 00:38:45.824
And the same goes for your memory. Each time you doubt yourself and then apologize

00:38:45.824 --> 00:38:48.764
for getting it wrong, your brain wires that shame loop a little tighter.

00:38:49.224 --> 00:38:52.004
Disagree. Get invalidated. Doubt self.

00:38:52.824 --> 00:38:58.224
Apologize. Brief relief. Rinse and repeat. Now your brain associates self-doubt

00:38:58.224 --> 00:39:01.984
with safety, because that's when the conflict ends, at least temporarily.

00:39:02.544 --> 00:39:06.924
So the good news, you can rewire that same brain that learned to associate appeasement

00:39:06.924 --> 00:39:10.364
with safety, that keeping the peace is safe, can learn a new story.

00:39:10.504 --> 00:39:14.404
But it does take repetition, and it takes intention, and you have to be deliberate.

00:39:14.404 --> 00:39:15.784
It's conscious repetition.

00:39:16.868 --> 00:39:20.328
In the opposite direction. So every time you pause, instead of explaining,

00:39:20.688 --> 00:39:23.308
every time you breathe, instead of defending, every time you say,

00:39:23.428 --> 00:39:25.628
that's not my memory, instead of collapsing into an apology,

00:39:26.048 --> 00:39:27.688
you're running new neural circuits.

00:39:27.868 --> 00:39:32.248
You're teaching your nervous system that calm can come from truth, not from shrinking.

00:39:32.988 --> 00:39:36.508
You're weakening the old wiring by refusing to keep firing it.

00:39:36.768 --> 00:39:40.468
Now, the reason this all feels so difficult to break, or the reason your brain

00:39:40.468 --> 00:39:43.328
keeps wanting to go back is something called intermittent reinforcement.

00:39:43.648 --> 00:39:46.888
It's the same principle that is associated with a trauma bond.

00:39:47.088 --> 00:39:53.868
It's also the same principle that goes into how we train a pet or why slot machines become addictive.

00:39:53.868 --> 00:39:58.288
Because when you occasionally get a reward, a kind word, a scratch behind the

00:39:58.288 --> 00:40:03.008
ear, a good day, an apology that almost feels real, your brain releases dopamine

00:40:03.008 --> 00:40:04.928
and it lights up like, maybe this time it'll work.

00:40:05.268 --> 00:40:09.568
So that unpredictability is powerful. It keeps you chasing the high of connection,

00:40:09.568 --> 00:40:10.608
even when it's hurting you.

00:40:11.028 --> 00:40:14.848
And that is why trauma bonds are so strong, because your body remembers those

00:40:14.848 --> 00:40:18.748
rare moments of warmth, the honeymoon phases, the laughter, the relief after

00:40:18.748 --> 00:40:24.528
chaos, and it keeps searching for them over and over again. It's not weakness, it's a conditioning.

00:40:25.048 --> 00:40:27.768
Your nervous system learned that love comes through tension,

00:40:28.028 --> 00:40:29.568
relief, and then tension again.

00:40:29.788 --> 00:40:32.948
And that cycle becomes the emotional rhythm that you unconsciously seek,

00:40:33.208 --> 00:40:34.728
even if it's destroying you.

00:40:35.647 --> 00:40:38.447
But here's where the healing begins. When you start to notice the cycle,

00:40:38.667 --> 00:40:42.527
when you can name it, you're aware of it, you can start to create space between

00:40:42.527 --> 00:40:46.447
the cue, the stimulus, and the response. And in that space, you do have power.

00:40:46.967 --> 00:40:50.307
You'll have power to breathe, power to ground, power to stay still,

00:40:50.507 --> 00:40:53.887
power to remind yourself this feeling of panic isn't proof that I'm wrong.

00:40:54.067 --> 00:40:56.107
It's proof that my body is learning something new.

00:40:56.507 --> 00:41:00.847
That's neuroplasticity also. That's the sound of your brain rewiring itself for peace.

00:41:01.287 --> 00:41:06.407
If the early parts of this episode have felt heavy, here's where I hope we can move toward hope.

00:41:06.767 --> 00:41:09.287
Because the same way your brain learned chaos, it can learn calm.

00:41:09.767 --> 00:41:14.327
The same way that it learned to brace for danger, it can learn that connection can feel safe again.

00:41:14.687 --> 00:41:18.567
Dan Siegel gives a beautiful roadmap for healing. He says, we are creatures of connection.

00:41:18.867 --> 00:41:23.267
From the moment that we're born, our nervous systems are wired to link up to somebody else's.

00:41:23.347 --> 00:41:25.407
A baby doesn't know how to regulate their emotions on their own,

00:41:25.447 --> 00:41:29.787
so they borrow their caregiver's nervous system. So when the baby cries and

00:41:29.787 --> 00:41:34.227
the parent rocks him, hums softly, makes eye contact, that's co-regulation in

00:41:34.227 --> 00:41:35.887
action. That's healthy co-regulation.

00:41:36.187 --> 00:41:39.707
The body learns when I'm upset and someone calm shows up, I survive.

00:41:40.167 --> 00:41:44.227
That process doesn't end when we grow up. As adults, we're still regulating

00:41:44.227 --> 00:41:47.067
through connection, through laughter from a friend, a hug from somebody that

00:41:47.067 --> 00:41:52.347
we trust, even a kind voice that says, hey, it's good to see you or that makes sense. You're okay.

00:41:52.747 --> 00:41:57.107
Our nervous systems are constantly scanning for safety and looking for cues.

00:41:57.107 --> 00:42:02.087
And when we find them, our body settles and our breathing slows and our mind opens.

00:42:02.827 --> 00:42:07.047
Healthy co-regulation feels like teamwork. It's not just about one person being

00:42:07.047 --> 00:42:08.667
the calm one. We're taking turns.

00:42:09.287 --> 00:42:12.747
It's this rhythm of sometimes I hold you steady. Sometimes you hold me.

00:42:13.007 --> 00:42:15.007
And that's what it can look like in real life.

00:42:15.487 --> 00:42:18.347
You come home from a stressful day. Your partner notices the tension.

00:42:18.467 --> 00:42:19.387
They don't rush to fix it.

00:42:19.627 --> 00:42:24.247
They'll sit beside you and they'll maybe put their hand on your shoulder and

00:42:24.247 --> 00:42:25.227
say, tell me about your day.

00:42:25.587 --> 00:42:27.807
They didn't want advice. They just wanted your presence.

00:42:28.467 --> 00:42:30.847
You're anxious before a big presentation and your friend says,

00:42:30.927 --> 00:42:32.607
hey, you got this. You've done harder things.

00:42:32.767 --> 00:42:36.507
Their tone, their calm, helps your body remember your capability.

00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:41.019
That's healthy co-regulation. Those are nervous systems that are starting to

00:42:41.019 --> 00:42:43.959
sync together in safety. And that is what builds trust.

00:42:44.379 --> 00:42:48.379
That's what strengthens your ability to self-regulate. But in emotionally mature

00:42:48.379 --> 00:42:52.459
or narcissistic relationships, co-regulation turns one-sided.

00:42:52.699 --> 00:42:55.959
So instead of shared steadiness, it becomes emotional management.

00:42:56.279 --> 00:42:59.319
You start carrying both backpacks and they are full of rocks.

00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:01.559
You carry them both nervous systems, yours and theirs.

00:43:01.819 --> 00:43:05.979
Their mood dictates your peace. Their withdrawal or their anger dictates your

00:43:05.979 --> 00:43:09.139
anxiety. You might find yourself thinking, if I can just say the right thing,

00:43:09.279 --> 00:43:13.319
if I can just be in the right way, if I can stay calm, maybe they won't explode.

00:43:13.419 --> 00:43:14.899
If I'm patient, maybe they'll finally hear me.

00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.619
That's not co-regulation. That's self-abandonment in the name of hopeful stability.

00:43:19.959 --> 00:43:23.839
And your body learns that connection equals vigilance. Over time,

00:43:23.959 --> 00:43:25.959
it'll say, stay small to stay safe.

00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.159
Over time, when you're no longer in that relationship, your nervous system still

00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:31.779
expects the next emotional explosion.

00:43:31.999 --> 00:43:34.899
So you find yourself tense around new people, even safe ones,

00:43:34.939 --> 00:43:38.099
because your body hasn't learned. that peace can last.

00:43:39.509 --> 00:43:42.709
Back to the good news, your nervous system is remarkably adaptable.

00:43:43.029 --> 00:43:46.669
It can learn through new experiences that consistency doesn't have to be dangerous,

00:43:46.869 --> 00:43:48.209
that calm doesn't mean disconnect.

00:43:48.569 --> 00:43:51.289
And those lessons don't have to come from a romantic partner.

00:43:51.469 --> 00:43:54.929
You can begin to retrain your nervous system through small, predictable,

00:43:55.309 --> 00:43:59.269
intentional, safe conversations. A therapist who stays grounded when you start to spiral.

00:43:59.449 --> 00:44:03.509
Or a friend who texts you back consistently, even if it's just for a quick check-in.

00:44:03.889 --> 00:44:08.089
Or a pet who curls up beside you every single night. or a community where you

00:44:08.089 --> 00:44:11.169
can show up as yourself without walking on eggshells.

00:44:11.649 --> 00:44:15.469
Each of those moments gives your body proof that connection can exist without chaos.

00:44:15.669 --> 00:44:19.149
That love doesn't have to come through tension and then relief and tension and

00:44:19.149 --> 00:44:21.009
relief. That it'll come through steadiness.

00:44:21.329 --> 00:44:23.169
And that's how healing really starts.

00:44:23.429 --> 00:44:28.109
It isn't these big epiphanies or aha moments. It's quiet repetition.

00:44:28.729 --> 00:44:32.829
Each safe moment is like laying down a brand new neural track.

00:44:33.409 --> 00:44:36.569
And over time, your body begins to prefer peace over unpredictability,

00:44:36.869 --> 00:44:38.249
presence over performance.

00:44:38.509 --> 00:44:42.269
Because healing from emotional immaturity or narcissistic abuse isn't just about

00:44:42.269 --> 00:44:43.129
understanding what happened.

00:44:43.269 --> 00:44:47.589
It's about retraining your body to trust safety again.

00:44:48.049 --> 00:44:50.949
You're teaching your nervous system a new language, one that sounds like,

00:44:51.109 --> 00:44:55.269
I can be calm and still be loved. I can disagree and still be safe.

00:44:55.729 --> 00:44:59.689
I can rest without earning it. That's the work. That's the rewiring.

00:44:59.909 --> 00:45:02.509
And every small, consistent, safe connection that you build,

00:45:02.509 --> 00:45:06.369
Every moment that you stay grounded in your truth, instead of chasing theirs,

00:45:06.669 --> 00:45:10.429
that's your brain and your body working together to learn a new story,

00:45:10.429 --> 00:45:15.029
that your reality is valid, that your calm is powerful, and that your safety

00:45:15.029 --> 00:45:16.869
no longer depends on someone else's stability.

00:45:17.369 --> 00:45:21.129
And once you start reclaiming your sense of calm, once you start to understand

00:45:21.129 --> 00:45:25.049
how your body and your brain have been wired to react, then you can finally

00:45:25.049 --> 00:45:29.829
begin to use one of the most powerful tools for protecting your peace, gray rocking.

00:45:30.552 --> 00:45:33.092
We talked about this a little bit a couple of weeks ago. Grey rocking does get

00:45:33.092 --> 00:45:36.772
tossed around a lot, especially on social media, and it's often very misunderstood.

00:45:37.092 --> 00:45:41.132
The term came out of online survivor communities that I believe is somewhere

00:45:41.132 --> 00:45:44.872
in the 2010s as a way for people to cope with narcissistic or highly manipulative

00:45:44.872 --> 00:45:46.552
people, especially when going

00:45:46.552 --> 00:45:50.292
no contact isn't possible, which I know is the case for so many people.

00:45:50.712 --> 00:45:55.432
So like with a co-parent, a family member or boss, grey rocking might be a really

00:45:55.432 --> 00:45:59.492
good way to be able to provide yourself some safety and peace.

00:45:59.492 --> 00:46:02.412
The idea was pretty simple if you can't safely

00:46:02.412 --> 00:46:05.712
confront or engage you disengage emotionally you become as

00:46:05.712 --> 00:46:08.792
uninteresting unreactive and non-emotive as a

00:46:08.792 --> 00:46:12.272
gray rock and all of a sudden it's not about winning it's

00:46:12.272 --> 00:46:16.092
not about feeding the dynamic because emotionally immature or narcissistic people

00:46:16.092 --> 00:46:20.612
thrive on this emotional energy whether it's your praise or your frustration

00:46:20.612 --> 00:46:24.652
they need reaction to feel in control so when you stop reacting the game loses

00:46:24.652 --> 00:46:29.412
oxygen and And here's where I want to shift maybe the way we think about gray rocking,

00:46:29.572 --> 00:46:31.712
because it's not just a strategy to shut down communication.

00:46:32.372 --> 00:46:37.712
It's also a practice of nervous system neutrality. It's how you say to your body, we're safe.

00:46:37.732 --> 00:46:40.452
We don't need to chase, fix, or prove anything right now.

00:46:41.012 --> 00:46:44.252
So when you gray rock from that place, not from fear, not from resentment,

00:46:44.512 --> 00:46:49.512
but from self-anchored calm, you're doing something intentional and it can be pretty profound.

00:46:49.512 --> 00:46:53.912
You're refusing to let somebody else's chaos dictate your internal state and

00:46:53.912 --> 00:46:56.832
you become the regulator that your nervous system never had.

00:46:57.676 --> 00:47:00.396
Let's say that your ex texts you something passive-aggressive.

00:47:00.556 --> 00:47:02.936
Oh, I guess you're too busy for your own kids again.

00:47:03.336 --> 00:47:06.436
The old wiring fires instantly. Your heart races, your thumbs hover over the

00:47:06.436 --> 00:47:10.236
keyboard, and you start drafting a four-page response and defending yourself. There's the hook.

00:47:10.876 --> 00:47:14.256
That's your nervous system immediately saying, danger, restore safety.

00:47:14.436 --> 00:47:16.656
But now you pause, you breathe.

00:47:17.596 --> 00:47:20.656
Check in with your body and remember, okay, safety does not come from convincing them.

00:47:20.996 --> 00:47:24.156
That is just providing them with a tremendous amount of an attack surface.

00:47:24.316 --> 00:47:27.696
It comes from you staying regulated. So your reply, if any, is short,

00:47:28.076 --> 00:47:30.876
factual, neutral. I'll pick him up as five as planned.

00:47:31.356 --> 00:47:33.056
No defense, no emotional charge,

00:47:33.196 --> 00:47:36.776
just clarity. That's gray rocking in its truest form. It's not cold.

00:47:36.936 --> 00:47:39.596
It's clear and it's not distant. It's more disciplined.

00:47:39.816 --> 00:47:42.336
It's self-protection without self-betrayal.

00:47:42.576 --> 00:47:45.696
And absolutely, it will feel at first mechanical.

00:47:46.036 --> 00:47:48.616
Your brain screams that you're being rude or you're being dismissive.

00:47:48.816 --> 00:47:52.116
But over time, something shifts and you start realizing how much energy you

00:47:52.116 --> 00:47:56.036
spend trying to manage someone else's emotions. how much of your day revolved

00:47:56.036 --> 00:48:00.256
around not setting somebody off and how light it feels when that's no longer your job.

00:48:01.016 --> 00:48:06.176
That's when you move from survival into this self-advocacy, self-leadership.

00:48:06.956 --> 00:48:10.196
Grey rocking isn't about becoming colorless. It's about protecting your vibrant

00:48:10.196 --> 00:48:15.676
self, your internal colors, by refusing to let it be drained by someone else's

00:48:15.676 --> 00:48:18.636
storm, especially the emotionally immature, because you still have color.

00:48:18.796 --> 00:48:20.456
You just don't hand them the paintbrush anymore.

00:48:20.776 --> 00:48:24.516
If you've made it this far into the episode, there's a decent chance that something

00:48:24.516 --> 00:48:25.456
in all of this feels familiar.

00:48:25.656 --> 00:48:28.076
Maybe you've been doubting your own memory, or you're walking on eggshells,

00:48:28.076 --> 00:48:30.936
or you're wondering if you're the problem. or maybe you've started waking up

00:48:30.936 --> 00:48:32.416
to patterns that don't make sense anymore.

00:48:32.916 --> 00:48:37.956
Here's what I want you to know. You're not crazy, you're conditioned and conditioning can be unlearned.

00:48:38.176 --> 00:48:43.116
Your brain, the same one that once rewired itself for survival can now rewire itself for peace.

00:48:43.516 --> 00:48:47.776
And every moment that you choose calm over chaos and truth over confusion,

00:48:48.396 --> 00:48:51.536
boundaries over blame, you're literally reshaping your neural pathways.

00:48:51.796 --> 00:48:56.276
That's healing, that's actually science and that's you taking back your life.

00:48:56.756 --> 00:49:00.676
If you're in that disorienting stage right now where the fog is clearing,

00:49:00.816 --> 00:49:03.936
but the ground still feels shaky. Remember this, you are not losing yourself.

00:49:04.156 --> 00:49:07.116
You're meeting yourself. And this version of you, the one who trusts your own

00:49:07.116 --> 00:49:10.236
memory, who honors your emotions and who no longer abandons yourself to keep

00:49:10.236 --> 00:49:12.356
somebody else comfortable, that's actually the real you.

00:49:12.916 --> 00:49:17.336
That's the you who is there all along waiting under the noise, ready to breathe again.

00:49:17.556 --> 00:49:21.836
And the more you stay with that truth quietly, patiently, courageously,

00:49:22.076 --> 00:49:24.796
the more you realize you were never crazy.

00:49:25.036 --> 00:49:27.776
You were surviving. And now you're freeing.

00:49:28.644 --> 00:49:31.924
If today's episode resonated with you, if you caught yourself nodding along,

00:49:32.064 --> 00:49:35.644
maybe even tearing up a little bit, I want you to hold on to this thought.

00:49:35.824 --> 00:49:38.684
You're not behind. You're not broken. You're just waking up.

00:49:39.024 --> 00:49:42.684
Every realization, every boundary, every quiet moment where you choose peace

00:49:42.684 --> 00:49:44.064
over chaos, that is progress.

00:49:44.284 --> 00:49:47.784
It's not flashy and it doesn't always feel empowering in the moment,

00:49:47.784 --> 00:49:49.884
but it's you building a life that is real.

00:49:50.164 --> 00:49:55.424
One choice at a time, developing those neural networks and we'll keep this party train rolling.

00:49:56.204 --> 00:50:00.164
Next time, we'll talk about what happens after you start seeing things clearly,

00:50:00.324 --> 00:50:03.124
how you rebuild trust in your own intuition, in your body, in your relationships

00:50:03.124 --> 00:50:05.004
without falling back into the pull

00:50:05.004 --> 00:50:08.644
of old dynamics. Because this waking up process is just the beginning.

00:50:08.944 --> 00:50:11.304
We got to learn to stay awake. That's where the real freedom starts.

00:50:11.864 --> 00:50:16.064
So until then, sit back, open up the shoulders, take a breath,

00:50:16.244 --> 00:50:17.684
give yourself credit for the work that you're doing.

00:50:17.764 --> 00:50:20.504
And remember, you are the expert on you.

00:50:20.884 --> 00:50:24.704
Your clarity is not up for debate and you're calm. That's your new power.

00:50:25.424 --> 00:50:28.764
All right, everybody, have an amazing week, and I will see you next time on

00:50:28.764 --> 00:50:29.504
Waking Up to Narcissism.