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This file was generated by Descript <www.descript.com>

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Welcome to the virtual couch Lease.

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Stick a seat.

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Four pillars, emotional maturity.

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Bear your self worth run so deep.

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You are not broken.

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You are a human.

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So check that out.

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You the know No what you don't know.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome to another episode
of the Virtual Couch.

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I am your host, Tony Obba.

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I'm a licensed marriage
and family therapist, a

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certified mindful habit coach.

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And welcome to part two of my
podcast about emotional immaturity.

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And thank you for your
feedback from part one.

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I think that's the most
feedback that I have received.

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So much of it was, okay, great.

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Now we've identified, established
that that emotional maturity

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I'm saying is it's an epidemic,
but now what do we do with it?

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So I did leave that part out.

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First, we have to be aware of it
if we're gonna do anything about

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it, and we'll talk about that
more as this episode goes along.

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Reach out to me, tony obba.com.

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Sign up for the newsletter.

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We've got an updated round of the
magnetic marriage courses coming.

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You can find me on Patreon at
patreon.com/virtual couch on

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Instagram at virtual dot couch
at TikTok at virtual couch.

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Let's get to today's episode, and if
you haven't heard it, please pause.

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Go back and listen to part one
because this concept around emotional

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immaturity is it's a game changer.

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You can't unsee it once you see it.

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Let me tell you a story about
a guy that I will call Tyler,

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and that is not his real name.

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If you are someone that is working
with me and you think that this

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is about you, I think the great
Carly Simon said it herself.

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You're so vain if you think this,
this song is about you, and if

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you don't know that reference.

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That probably sounded
like I was pretty rude.

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So give that one to Google.

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But I think that we will all see parts
of us in Tyler, or maybe even parts

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of people that you know, maybe people
that you are in a relationship with.

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Tyler had a lot going on in a good way.

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When he was growing up, he was popular,
he was smart, he was athletic, and

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he always knew how to read a room.

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He could make people laugh,
he would say the right thing.

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He ended up being a class officer and then
eventually his student body president,

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he was captain of his soccer team.

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He was the guy that teachers would
say would go far and at home.

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That was kind of different emotions were
not really welcome, but I don't know if

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they were welcome in many people's homes,
especially in the time that Tyler grew up.

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His dad did not say, I love you,
unless it was followed by, but you

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know, you really need to do better.

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His mom was continually worried.

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She was distracted.

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So Tyler learned that attention
and praise and admiration

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were essentially the currency.

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Of connection.

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If you did these things well enough, then
you may get acknowledgement or connection,

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and that worked in his life until
things came crashing down and it didn't.

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Fast forward 20 years or so, Tyler
was sitting on my couch, frustrated,

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feeling pretty alone in his relationship.

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And at first he honestly felt
like the world's biggest victim.

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He said that he had absolutely no
idea why he was there talking with

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me, but his wife told him that
he was definitely the problem.

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She had been saying that for a long
time, and she was at her wit's end.

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He said that he felt like
nobody appreciated him.

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He was a walking paycheck, and
the harder he tried to be seen,

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he said the worst that things got.

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His wife began calling him
arrogant and even eventually

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started calling him a narcissist.

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His coworkers.

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Had a bit of an intervention with him.

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He said that today felt like
he was always one-upping them.

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You know, I wanna make a joke right
now and say, and he said, oh yeah,

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well I'm doing it better than you are.

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But that isn't true.

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But he started to feel like the very
things that had made him likable were

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now keeping people at a distance.

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And he was confused what got Tyler
to my office wasn't necessarily

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a, a crisis, but it was a very
slow drip, a slow frustration.

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'cause he was beginning to shut down.

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And what I honestly thought that
he wanted from me was for me

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to tell him that he was right.

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I. Everybody else was wrong.

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Now let's, he and I pick up
some pitchforks and let's go

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find all these people that don't
understand him and let's get 'em.

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Slight tangent.

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I've made no, no secret that my
favorite band is called a JR,

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and they have a couple of very
solid mental health related songs.

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As a matter of fact, I highly
recommend Look Up a JR and Karma.

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That's one of my favorites
that is talking about therapy.

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But at this time, a song of
theirs had blown up on TikTok.

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People were doing a
particular dance to it.

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The song is called The
World's Smallest Violin.

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And this is kind of funny.

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Tyler said that his
wife actually sent him.

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That song and told them to listen to
the lyrics and listen very carefully.

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To which he said he was very
honest with me about this.

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He said his very first thought was
that he would actually find a song that

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explained his thoughts better than the
world's smallest violin than that one.

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And for some reason, that actually
was what helped him realize

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maybe he was a bit of a one-up.

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But then he did listen to the song.

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I was familiar with it, and it became
a pretty recurring theme in therapy.

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Here are the lyrics that hit
him a little bit different.

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So in the song they sing
somewhere in the universe.

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Somewhere.

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Someone's got it worse.

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I wish that made it easier.

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I wish I didn't feel the hurt.

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The world's smallest violin
really needs an audience.

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So if I do not find somebody soon, I'll
blow up into smithereens and spew my

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tiny symphony I'll up and down a city
street while trying to put my mind

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at ease, like finishing this melody.

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This feels like a necessity.

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So this could be the death of
me or maybe just a better me.

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And then it says, so let
me play my violin for you.

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But that part where it got to the
point where he said, okay, I think

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that this could be the death of me.

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Then he had to acknowledge, okay, maybe
this could be a better me, because he

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realized he was trying to find people
to listen to him and tell him how

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brave he is and tell him how amazing
he is, and that his stories were

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better, that he could even take a one
up position when he was being a victim.

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But he said that he often felt like
people dismissed his thoughts or his

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emotions, but he realized that those
thoughts and emotions, the ones that

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people would dismiss typically came
after he was told something that he did

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that bothered somebody else, or that
he had potentially done incorrectly.

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Or when he hadn't followed through on
something that he had promised somebody.

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But that person didn't understand
that something else came up.

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What was he supposed to do?

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But then he got to that point, and
I love this as a therapist, where

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there was a essentially this vibe
of like, hold on, are these excuses.

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Then he realized, okay,
maybe I did one up.

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And then there, there was that
beginning of his discovery

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of his very own aha moment.

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What we eventually explored in
great detail was, so he gets to

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feel better after he explains that
others actually are wrong about him.

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He gets to feel better after
he explains that somebody else.

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Well, they did exactly what
they're accusing him of too.

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He gets to feel better when somebody
tells him a story and then actually he

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can come back with an even better story
because maybe that they will think that,

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boy, he really has lived an amazing life.

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He gets to feel better when he
does more, when he goes bigger

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and when he proves he's right.

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And what about the other person?

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Now, all of a sudden,
they aren't praising him.

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They aren't telling him
that that's a crazy story.

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They aren't in awe of how brave
he was to suddenly find himself in

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the middle of fixing someone else's
problem instead of following through

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on what he committed to earlier.

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So then I asked him.

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When you were a kid, what was your
relationship like with your parents?

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And he said that it was, it was great.

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How come?

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And I asked him, were they curious
about your experiences or did you get

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asked a lot of questions as a kid?

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And the more he thought about it,
he said, well, yeah, like, why

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didn't you get a better grade?

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Or Didn't you remember that you were
supposed to stop by the neighbors and

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take out their trash or feed their dog?

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So actually, no, those
weren't curious questions.

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They were questions, but they were
questions that meant that he was in

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trouble or questions pointing out
that he had done something wrong.

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So I asked him, did you like that feeling?

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What was that like for you?

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And he said, no, I
didn't like that feeling.

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I constantly felt like I was in trouble.

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So then I asked him, well, what
would you do to get out of it?

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And he said that he would tell a
larger story, that he would make up an

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excuse that he would put it back on the
person who was asking him the question.

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We never said that.

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I thought that you said
this little gaslighting.

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It is a childhood defense
mechanism, and you could see it so

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clearly in the story with Tyler.

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I said, it sounds like you got out
of a lot of jams and then you could

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actually go play with your friends.

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So thank you little Tyler, inner Tyler,
inner child Tyler, because he used

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that tool to survive, but now it is
leaving him feeling alone and feeling

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isolated and like he is again in trouble.

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What used to work, what worked for
him in childhood, no longer works.

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He was still using the only
emotional tool that he had of

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seeking external validation.

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He needed somebody else to help
him feel better, even if it was

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to their own detriment or to
the cost of the relationship.

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Because to him, everything was temporary.

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And what did he need to do to get outta
that moment, get outta that discomfort.

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But now it was backfiring.

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Every attempt that he made to impress
every joke, to cover up an insecurity

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every larger than life story to try and
get the person to openly praise him,

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only made him feel less and less seen.

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So this is where I got to introduce to him
my very favorite acceptance and commitment

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therapy metaphor, the man in the whole.

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So picture this, you are in a vast
field and you're blindfolded and you're

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running and you've got a tool bag.

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Then without any warning, you
fall into a very deep hole.

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And this hole, as we will discuss
in detail later, represents a stage

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of not knowing what you don't know.

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It just is happening to you.

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Or those areas of our self-awareness
that remain unseen are blind spots.

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Now you feel stuck.

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You're, you're trapped, and you're
desperate for a way outta this hole.

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So naturally, you're gonna turn to the
only tool that you have in your bag,

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and it happens to be a shovel, and
you start digging furiously digging.

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Because you believe that this
is the solution, but here's the

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deeper layer to your situation.

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The very act of digging the very
tools and strategies that you've

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been employing up to this point
in your life now aren't helping.

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Now, they might have worked in
other situations, but in this hole,

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they're only making things worse.

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It's like you go to therapy or you're
seeking help, or you're reading self-help

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books or podcasts, and you're hoping
that somebody is going to give you this

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gold-plated steam shovel, because our
brain naturally goes to this place of

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thinking that a bigger or a fancier tool,
that's probably the answer because I

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know this is a good tool, but the problem
isn't the tool itself, it's the context.

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It's the situation that
you're using it in.

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So then you might wonder, well, how
on earth do I get outta this hole?

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But that's where a paradigm shift becomes
essential because it's not necessarily

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about figuring out how to escape.

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At least not now, not immediately.

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That would just be a way to, to
just get outta this discomfort.

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It's more about accepting,
okay, I am in a hole.

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In the first place.

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Imagine being handed a ladder while
you're still hanging onto the shovel.

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Somebody lowers it down into the hole.

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What you probably do is you would
take that ladder and you would

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try to dig with the ladder, but
ladders make really crummy shovels.

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So the real challenge is to let go
of the shovel, let go of the digging

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that you would do with that shovel.

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And I need to be open to a new approach.

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I need to be open to a new tool.

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We're gonna tie this back to
your journey of self discovery.

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We have to acknowledge, take in
self, confront, recognize and

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admit where there might be some
blind spots, a flaw, a limitation.

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And doing so can be scary.

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It can be really daunting.

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'cause we go back to that inner child in
us that thinks, oh no, I'm in trouble.

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I'm doing it wrong.

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You're just going through life for the
very first time as you, but you are

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carrying around a shovel with you, most
likely holding onto our usual methods

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even when they aren't serving us.

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That's a natural human instinct.

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It's the familiar, it's what we
know because it feels too scary

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and risky to abandon the only
tools that we've ever known.

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I might have to actually
ask somebody for help.

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I might have to say, I didn't know.

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Those are some powerful words that can be
so liberating, but for some reason they're

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so difficult for some people to say, to
acknowledge that they didn't know, or

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that this is what they thought would work.

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But your pain, your discomfort, and
then the realization that nothing

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maybe has worked for a little while,
those might be your most significant

00:13:01.140 --> 00:13:05.490
allies because those are the things
that can motivate you to let go.

00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:11.040
To make space for new tools, new
perspectives, and new strategies to be

00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:14.040
able to say, this ladder looks familiar.

00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:15.570
I know you can't walk underneath them.

00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.630
Especially if a black cat's falling
you around, that's bad luck.

00:13:18.630 --> 00:13:21.000
And if you're carrying a
mirror at the time, forget it.

00:13:22.155 --> 00:13:24.135
I need somebody to really
help me understand.

00:13:24.165 --> 00:13:29.115
I might think I know what to do, but
I could also not know what I'm doing.

00:13:29.814 --> 00:13:30.689
So are you ready?

00:13:30.719 --> 00:13:33.689
Are you ready to give up on
the old ways that are now

00:13:33.780 --> 00:13:35.069
most likely keeping you stuck?

00:13:35.069 --> 00:13:38.939
I think it helps from part one
of this podcast to recognize that

00:13:38.969 --> 00:13:43.290
those were adaptive strategies
that kept us alive in childhood.

00:13:43.859 --> 00:13:46.740
Now a lot of 'em are maladaptive now.

00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:48.719
They are what is keeping us stuck.

00:13:48.959 --> 00:13:54.000
It's time to, to embrace a new direction,
and it won't be easy, but it's a pivotal

00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.790
step in this journey toward genuine.

00:13:57.045 --> 00:14:00.345
Self-awareness, self-love understanding.

00:14:00.705 --> 00:14:04.545
So here's where this act metaphor comes
into your journey, because the first

00:14:04.545 --> 00:14:08.475
step to getting out of the hole again is
recognizing and accepting where you are.

00:14:08.715 --> 00:14:12.015
It's not about frantically digging,
taking whatever tool that you

00:14:12.015 --> 00:14:14.595
have and just doing the same
thing with it over and over again.

00:14:15.285 --> 00:14:18.615
It's more about learning how to
take a pause, acknowledge the

00:14:18.615 --> 00:14:22.515
situation, and look for different
perspectives or a different approach.

00:14:22.515 --> 00:14:24.795
Acknowledge the fact that I
may not actually know what I'm

00:14:24.795 --> 00:14:26.565
doing now, and that's okay.

00:14:27.255 --> 00:14:30.555
Because your quest for genuine
understanding and self-awareness,

00:14:30.555 --> 00:14:34.425
it is like seeking new tools are
strategies to climb out of this hole.

00:14:34.995 --> 00:14:38.865
Part of the exciting thing is that
once you embrace that, okay, there

00:14:38.865 --> 00:14:40.485
are so many things that I don't know.

00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:44.069
That I don't know that once I
start learning new things, you

00:14:44.069 --> 00:14:46.589
get pretty excited about, okay,
this is, this feels awesome.

00:14:46.589 --> 00:14:48.959
I'm making more sense of my own existence.

00:14:48.959 --> 00:14:51.839
The things that I'm now learning
about myself are gonna equip me

00:14:51.870 --> 00:14:55.589
to be the best version of myself
for me and in my relationships.

00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:59.490
And I promise you, at some
point it will click that.

00:14:59.579 --> 00:15:00.870
Okay, so what else don't I know?

00:15:01.199 --> 00:15:04.530
Because now I'm open, I'm gonna still
operate from this place of, I'm okay.

00:15:04.589 --> 00:15:05.520
I'm gonna figure this out.

00:15:06.209 --> 00:15:09.930
Because at times it will feel
overwhelming, but you know that

00:15:09.930 --> 00:15:11.430
you are going to figure things out.

00:15:11.670 --> 00:15:15.959
And it's not by just digging
furiously in this hole with a shovel.

00:15:16.770 --> 00:15:20.130
This journey from not knowing what
you didn't know to getting to now

00:15:20.130 --> 00:15:23.790
this place of self-awareness, not
about digging deeper, not about

00:15:23.790 --> 00:15:25.770
working harder with the old tools.

00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:28.110
It's about realizing that
sometimes we need to stop.

00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.170
We're gonna reassess and we're gonna
find new ways to navigate our challenges.

00:15:31.170 --> 00:15:35.790
And with time and reflection, and it
feels natural to say faith and trust and

00:15:35.790 --> 00:15:40.080
pixie dust and seek guidance, you'll find
ways to understand yourself more deeply

00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.570
and climb outta this metaphorical hole.

00:15:43.020 --> 00:15:45.090
I feel like there needs to be
something powerful next toward

00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:46.590
the light of understanding.

00:15:46.710 --> 00:15:50.340
Let me just do a very brief recap
of a couple of the concepts that

00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.050
I covered in the first episode.

00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:56.190
I talked about why we actually
do need to tell us about your

00:15:56.190 --> 00:16:00.660
mom or your dad, in essence, your
childhood, and why it matters.

00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:04.830
Because when we're talking about emotional
immaturity, we're really talking about

00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:06.420
where emotional growth got paused.

00:16:06.420 --> 00:16:09.960
Not in a funny sitcom from the
two thousands way, but in a real

00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:14.310
developmental sense because these
pauses usually trace back to childhood,

00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:18.330
those early chapters where we picked
up coping strategies to get through

00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.130
all kinds of tough environments.

00:16:20.745 --> 00:16:23.055
We mirrored what we saw in our caregivers.

00:16:23.115 --> 00:16:28.574
We built these fundamental beliefs about
who we were and how the world works.

00:16:28.935 --> 00:16:34.305
And unless we're willing to go back and
explore those origin stories, we will

00:16:34.305 --> 00:16:38.625
just keep addressing surface level issues
without touching on the real source.

00:16:38.985 --> 00:16:42.105
And we will have some moments
where we feel connection, but

00:16:42.495 --> 00:16:44.295
is it a real deep connection?

00:16:44.355 --> 00:16:47.025
Or we might feel a deeper
connection on some issues.

00:16:47.025 --> 00:16:51.255
The ones that we just happen to be
in absolute alignment with people on.

00:16:51.765 --> 00:16:54.735
But we're gonna slowly but
surely not know what to do with

00:16:54.735 --> 00:16:56.025
the uncomfortable feelings.

00:16:56.475 --> 00:17:01.064
And we avoid discomfort like the plague,
and we really, really crave certainty.

00:17:01.305 --> 00:17:04.155
Things that become certain
are the easy things because

00:17:04.155 --> 00:17:05.565
they're also not uncomfortable.

00:17:06.345 --> 00:17:08.474
So we need to learn how
to get to the source.

00:17:08.714 --> 00:17:11.984
It's kinda like putting lotion
on a rash without ever finding

00:17:11.984 --> 00:17:13.035
out what you're allergic to.

00:17:13.635 --> 00:17:15.885
I see this often with my clients.

00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:20.280
And the first episode of In part one, I
talked about a dad that disciplined his

00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:24.000
kids by making 'em stand in a corner,
and it was not because he knew it worked.

00:17:24.089 --> 00:17:28.620
He absolutely couldn't stand doing it as a
kid, but that was what was modeled for him

00:17:29.520 --> 00:17:31.140
and it was his time to break that pattern.

00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:32.010
But it was familiar.

00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.280
Another person that I worked with
repeated a punishment that he

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:37.530
received growing up using hot sauce.

00:17:37.590 --> 00:17:41.490
Not outta malice when, but it was when
he said a bad word, and it was because

00:17:41.490 --> 00:17:43.590
that script was embedded in his system.

00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:44.520
It was familiar.

00:17:44.790 --> 00:17:47.670
He didn't question it because
nobody ever really told him

00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:48.570
that there was another way.

00:17:49.350 --> 00:17:52.920
It's fascinating because the thing is
these aren't clear, logical memories

00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:54.480
that our brain keeps stored on a shelf.

00:17:54.810 --> 00:17:57.090
They live in us as emotional blueprints.

00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:00.330
That younger version of you
isn't replaying a punishment

00:18:00.330 --> 00:18:01.860
scene to guide your parenting.

00:18:02.130 --> 00:18:04.200
It's holding onto it
because it's unresolved.

00:18:04.770 --> 00:18:09.540
It's waiting for you, the adult to
say, no, this thing wasn't okay, and

00:18:09.540 --> 00:18:10.980
you didn't have a voice as a kid.

00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:11.700
So can we.

00:18:12.495 --> 00:18:13.215
Clear that up.

00:18:13.215 --> 00:18:16.215
Now can we take care of that
and not do that with your kid?

00:18:16.665 --> 00:18:20.295
But our body often is just
thinking, okay, I remember this.

00:18:20.295 --> 00:18:21.165
This is familiar.

00:18:21.855 --> 00:18:26.445
We need the adult then to say That wasn't
okay, you, you actually deserve better.

00:18:27.285 --> 00:18:30.675
And it's the moments that we start
to examine these scripts that become

00:18:30.675 --> 00:18:34.035
these moments that we start to
take the wheel in our own lives.

00:18:34.545 --> 00:18:38.745
So instead of blindly repeating what
was done to us, we get to choose a

00:18:38.745 --> 00:18:43.395
different path, but we can't rewrite
the story until we're willing to go in

00:18:43.395 --> 00:18:45.315
and read the early chapters of the book.

00:18:46.185 --> 00:18:48.855
This is why I have really
grown to appreciate the power

00:18:48.855 --> 00:18:50.535
of the old therapy cliche.

00:18:50.925 --> 00:18:51.885
Tell me about your childhood.

00:18:52.455 --> 00:18:56.595
Not as a way to blame, which so many
people often think that that is what it

00:18:56.595 --> 00:19:02.175
is and it's not as a way to stay stuck
in childhood, but it's a tool to uncover

00:19:02.355 --> 00:19:07.215
these invisible blueprints that we've been
using to build and shape our adult lives.

00:19:07.905 --> 00:19:10.785
'cause the real parenting
breakthrough that happens when

00:19:10.785 --> 00:19:12.705
we start parenting ourselves.

00:19:13.275 --> 00:19:14.715
The concept of re-parenting.

00:19:15.105 --> 00:19:19.125
We're finally giving that younger version
of us the care, the validation, and the

00:19:19.125 --> 00:19:20.805
healthy responses that we didn't get.

00:19:21.405 --> 00:19:25.725
That's when we start to become free to
offer something new and healthier to the

00:19:25.725 --> 00:19:30.375
next generation, to our kids, to change
the course for our grandkids as well.

00:19:30.825 --> 00:19:33.075
This is where the idea of
reparenting comes into the picture.

00:19:33.105 --> 00:19:36.255
It's stepping in to give yourself
the kindness, the guidance,

00:19:36.255 --> 00:19:38.835
the validation that you didn't
receive when you needed it most.

00:19:39.135 --> 00:19:42.825
But I want, I wanna pause here because
there's something that I notice

00:19:42.825 --> 00:19:46.875
so often in in the therapy office,
that when we start talking about

00:19:46.875 --> 00:19:50.415
childhood experiences, it does feel
like we're doing something wrong.

00:19:50.415 --> 00:19:55.335
Often if we're talking about how
we could have been parented better,

00:19:55.425 --> 00:19:59.235
it's as if we just feel like we
shouldn't be criticizing our parents.

00:19:59.835 --> 00:20:03.735
There's this subtle, but this persistent
fear that if we say, my parents didn't

00:20:03.735 --> 00:20:06.795
really get this part right, that it
means we're throwing 'em under the bus.

00:20:06.795 --> 00:20:10.005
It's an all or nothing black or
white statement that, that we're

00:20:10.005 --> 00:20:12.225
being ungrateful, that we're blaming.

00:20:12.225 --> 00:20:15.435
And I want to gently challenge that
because first, I do say that in my office,

00:20:15.435 --> 00:20:18.765
if you start with a bless their heart,
then you do have my permission to have

00:20:18.765 --> 00:20:21.585
your own feelings and your own opinions
and your own thoughts about your parents.

00:20:22.425 --> 00:20:23.205
And that's okay.

00:20:23.295 --> 00:20:26.355
It's actually very helpful and
liberating because here's what

00:20:26.355 --> 00:20:27.435
I believe with my whole heart.

00:20:27.825 --> 00:20:31.065
Our parents did do the best that they
could with tools, with the awareness, the

00:20:31.065 --> 00:20:32.805
information that they had at the time.

00:20:33.285 --> 00:20:36.525
I don't think that they were waking up
thinking, how can I mess up my kid today?

00:20:37.035 --> 00:20:39.285
But you're learning things
now that they didn't know.

00:20:39.285 --> 00:20:44.445
Then you are waking up to patterns in
your own behavior and in the family

00:20:44.445 --> 00:20:48.615
dynamic, you're questioning how you
show up as a partner, as a parent, as

00:20:48.615 --> 00:20:53.835
a person, and you're likely starting to
realize that your reactions, your fears

00:20:53.835 --> 00:20:56.295
or struggles aren't about being broken.

00:20:56.295 --> 00:21:00.105
You're not broken, but they're
about being shaped and how you were

00:21:00.105 --> 00:21:01.665
shaped, what became the familiar.

00:21:02.385 --> 00:21:07.395
We are, I think, in so many ways the
first generation with constant access

00:21:07.395 --> 00:21:09.915
to real time evolving information.

00:21:10.005 --> 00:21:13.755
That's one of the truly beautiful
things about the internet at its best,

00:21:13.935 --> 00:21:16.815
puts knowledge at your fingertips the
moment that you're ready to receive it.

00:21:16.815 --> 00:21:18.945
Of course, it also has its dark sides.

00:21:18.975 --> 00:21:20.505
It puts knowledge at your fingertips.

00:21:20.505 --> 00:21:24.555
The very moment you're ready to receive
it, you can find confirmation for anything

00:21:24.555 --> 00:21:28.905
you wanna believe, but the principle
still holds seek and you shall find if

00:21:28.905 --> 00:21:32.565
you are looking to grow, to heal, to
break cycles, then you can find those

00:21:32.565 --> 00:21:34.155
tools that'll help you do exactly that.

00:21:34.785 --> 00:21:40.845
But if you're also looking for reasons to
make your partner into a horrible human,

00:21:40.845 --> 00:21:42.255
you could probably find those as well.

00:21:42.525 --> 00:21:46.725
And I'm talking about the versions
of those where that spouse does not

00:21:46.935 --> 00:21:48.915
deserve that label of horrible human.

00:21:49.605 --> 00:21:54.375
Our parents did not have access
to information constantly.

00:21:54.375 --> 00:21:58.245
They had to go to libraries,
they had to use encyclopedias.

00:21:58.515 --> 00:22:00.675
They used things called micro fish.

00:22:01.365 --> 00:22:02.895
Which have nothing to do with seafood.

00:22:03.675 --> 00:22:07.425
And if you were a kid of the seventies,
the eighties, or even early nineties,

00:22:07.785 --> 00:22:12.015
you know that a full set of Encyclopedia
Britannica is, it wasn't just information,

00:22:12.015 --> 00:22:13.815
it was a darn near a status symbol.

00:22:14.325 --> 00:22:15.885
Family spent thousands of dollars.

00:22:16.545 --> 00:22:19.665
What would now be the equivalent
of four to 12 grand on a

00:22:19.665 --> 00:22:21.555
single set of encyclopedia?

00:22:21.885 --> 00:22:22.785
That thing was sacred.

00:22:22.785 --> 00:22:24.675
It got passed on through generations.

00:22:24.735 --> 00:22:26.055
Now think about that.

00:22:26.535 --> 00:22:30.225
You didn't toss it out when
new science came along.

00:22:30.225 --> 00:22:32.235
You kept it, maybe you dusted it.

00:22:32.565 --> 00:22:33.585
Uh, that would be a thing.

00:22:33.945 --> 00:22:37.545
So just imagine you're staying at
your grandparents' house for a week

00:22:37.545 --> 00:22:38.595
while your parents are outta town.

00:22:38.955 --> 00:22:40.545
Uh, you've got a book report due.

00:22:40.545 --> 00:22:43.125
So you, you had nowhere to go.

00:22:43.155 --> 00:22:43.935
There was no internet.

00:22:43.965 --> 00:22:48.315
So you pull out their pristine set
of encyclopedia and you flip to the

00:22:48.315 --> 00:22:53.745
letter P and you write a stellar report
on Pluto, the ninth planet, except

00:22:54.465 --> 00:22:57.975
by the time you're presenting it in
class, Pluto is not a planet anymore.

00:22:58.560 --> 00:23:02.730
My bad, but you were doing the best with
the outdated information that you had.

00:23:03.419 --> 00:23:05.730
So that's what our
parents were working with.

00:23:05.820 --> 00:23:10.770
Static Knowledge, no updates unless you
bought the annual yearbook at a extra cost

00:23:10.770 --> 00:23:12.330
that a lot of families didn't spring for.

00:23:12.990 --> 00:23:15.149
So a lot of what they
passed down they did.

00:23:15.149 --> 00:23:18.750
So with confidence, this is what
I know, even though some of it no

00:23:18.750 --> 00:23:23.490
longer applies, but yet so many of us
are still using those old emotional

00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:27.270
encyclopedias in our relationships
with our spouses, with our kids.

00:23:27.810 --> 00:23:29.850
We're still parenting the
way that we were parented.

00:23:29.850 --> 00:23:32.370
We still believe the things
about ourselves that were, we'll

00:23:32.370 --> 00:23:35.520
say air quote, true only in the
context of a five-year-old trying

00:23:35.520 --> 00:23:36.810
to make sense out of your world.

00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:39.415
So when we talk about.

00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.340
Reparenting ourselves.

00:23:41.340 --> 00:23:42.510
We're not blaming anybody.

00:23:42.630 --> 00:23:46.440
We're just recognizing that some of the
tools that we were handed are outdated.

00:23:46.620 --> 00:23:48.450
It's like we were just handed
a whole bunch of shovels and

00:23:48.450 --> 00:23:49.980
we're all in a bunch of holes.

00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:51.660
But that's, it's okay.

00:23:51.810 --> 00:23:55.290
It's necessary to then update the system.

00:23:55.860 --> 00:23:58.380
Reparenting means that you have
to notice the moments when your

00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.030
internal system wants to scold.

00:24:00.510 --> 00:24:05.730
Shut down people please overachieve
or numb out, and then ask, is this the

00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:07.470
voice that I want guiding me right now?

00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:09.330
It's my inner child.

00:24:09.990 --> 00:24:13.530
It's choosing to respond to yourself
with warmth and structure and

00:24:13.530 --> 00:24:17.550
compassion that you wish that somebody
had offered you that is gonna help.

00:24:17.670 --> 00:24:21.060
Now, unfortunately, that adult
in you is also gonna wanna say,

00:24:21.210 --> 00:24:23.130
eat vegetables, save your money.

00:24:23.130 --> 00:24:27.060
So there's some things like that
that won't be as fun as when the

00:24:27.060 --> 00:24:28.590
inner child is running the show.

00:24:28.590 --> 00:24:32.760
Maybe you can let him drive
sometimes on the weekends, but the

00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:36.600
more you are re-parenting yourself
as your grownup adult version.

00:24:37.185 --> 00:24:39.225
Your inner child is gonna just thank you.

00:24:39.495 --> 00:24:43.784
It, it's no longer waiting for somebody
to show up for you because now you are

00:24:43.784 --> 00:24:48.075
showing up for you that five-year-old
version of you who was scared or

00:24:48.075 --> 00:24:50.655
misunderstood or just trying to be good.

00:24:50.774 --> 00:24:52.065
So nobody would get mad.

00:24:52.575 --> 00:24:54.284
They don't need to run the show anymore.

00:24:54.284 --> 00:24:58.575
They did an amazing job, but
they do need to be heard.

00:24:59.145 --> 00:25:02.024
Re-parenting is listening to
that voice and saying, I see

00:25:02.024 --> 00:25:03.764
you let the big kid take over.

00:25:03.764 --> 00:25:04.725
Now I've got you.

00:25:05.534 --> 00:25:09.225
I want to share some examples I think
illustrate what the re-parenting

00:25:09.225 --> 00:25:13.695
yourself can look like in these everyday
situations and, and they're each gonna be

00:25:13.695 --> 00:25:18.915
rooted in an aspect of what I discussed
in pretty good detail in episode one.

00:25:19.125 --> 00:25:21.585
In part one, all the names.

00:25:22.004 --> 00:25:22.875
Have been changed.

00:25:22.875 --> 00:25:25.575
The situations are very much
based off of real stories.

00:25:26.024 --> 00:25:29.534
A person, we will call her Jenna, messes
up an important work presentation now.

00:25:29.534 --> 00:25:32.865
Her old pattern, her inner voice
says, you, I screw things up.

00:25:33.044 --> 00:25:34.034
Why can't you just get it right?

00:25:34.635 --> 00:25:36.855
When you start to reparent
yourself, there's a shift.

00:25:37.004 --> 00:25:37.995
Now she's gonna pause.

00:25:38.024 --> 00:25:40.875
She's gonna take a breath and say
to herself, well, that was hard,

00:25:41.055 --> 00:25:42.345
but hey, you're doing your best.

00:25:42.375 --> 00:25:43.365
You don't know what you don't know.

00:25:43.875 --> 00:25:44.895
It's okay to be a human.

00:25:45.254 --> 00:25:46.905
So let's look at what
we can learn from this.

00:25:47.504 --> 00:25:51.225
This is the beginning of
self-compassion in action, offering

00:25:51.225 --> 00:25:54.405
herself the kind of support that
a kind parent might have given.

00:25:55.215 --> 00:25:57.794
Let's talk about giving yourself
permission to feel instead

00:25:57.794 --> 00:25:59.145
of suppress your emotions.

00:25:59.715 --> 00:26:00.975
A picture, a guy named Marcus.

00:26:01.125 --> 00:26:05.055
Marcus feels, uh, unexpectedly sad
after he has a really difficult

00:26:05.055 --> 00:26:06.375
conversation with his brother.

00:26:06.375 --> 00:26:08.895
Now, the old pattern, he
pushes the feeling down.

00:26:09.014 --> 00:26:10.905
He distracts himself with work,
and he just thinks, you know,

00:26:10.905 --> 00:26:12.105
there's no reason to feel this way.

00:26:12.165 --> 00:26:13.305
I just need to stop thinking this.

00:26:13.305 --> 00:26:15.315
I just need to toughen up again.

00:26:15.315 --> 00:26:16.034
Good luck with that.

00:26:16.710 --> 00:26:22.350
Stop thinking about the green polar bear
right now on a unicycle reparenting shift.

00:26:22.350 --> 00:26:24.150
He instead says, okay, wow.

00:26:24.150 --> 00:26:24.600
Check that out.

00:26:24.600 --> 00:26:25.950
That stirred up something in me.

00:26:26.340 --> 00:26:27.660
Lemme just sit with this for a little bit.

00:26:27.810 --> 00:26:29.850
Let me let my emotions, let him breathe.

00:26:30.330 --> 00:26:32.790
Maybe there's something that
younger me is reacting to.

00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.210
He might even journal what came
up, and he realizes that the

00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:39.810
conversation really echoed these
childhood feelings of being left out.

00:26:40.350 --> 00:26:43.830
He's used to being left out by
his brother and he didn't know

00:26:43.830 --> 00:26:45.210
how to speak up for himself.

00:26:45.810 --> 00:26:49.290
So in this scenario, he's giving
emotional space to that younger

00:26:49.290 --> 00:26:53.130
version of himself who wasn't allowed
to feel or express emotions safely.

00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:57.630
Let's talk about good old boundaries,
creating safety through boundaries.

00:26:58.320 --> 00:27:02.430
Amy's mom calls, starts criticizing
her parenting again, old pattern.

00:27:03.030 --> 00:27:04.050
Amy stays on the phone.

00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.390
She's fawning, she's explaining herself.

00:27:06.390 --> 00:27:09.195
I. She's feeling small and
she's frustrated afterward,

00:27:09.465 --> 00:27:12.135
and she even beats herself up,
introduces some good old shame.

00:27:12.195 --> 00:27:17.834
What's, I'm so bad at this reparenting
shift, Amy gently says, mom, I love

00:27:17.834 --> 00:27:20.205
you, but I, I need to hang up now.

00:27:20.985 --> 00:27:23.685
If you are gonna speak to me
like this, then I'm gonna,

00:27:23.834 --> 00:27:24.975
I'm gonna jump off the call.

00:27:25.155 --> 00:27:29.629
I need to fill my life with respectful
conversations, there's the adult

00:27:29.745 --> 00:27:32.715
Amy stepping in to protect younger
Amy who never felt safe enough to

00:27:32.715 --> 00:27:34.965
say no or to stand up for herself.

00:27:35.745 --> 00:27:38.115
One that we don't talk about enough
in the world of reparenting is

00:27:38.115 --> 00:27:40.125
making room for joy and playing.

00:27:40.635 --> 00:27:42.975
Trevor always felt like he had to
be the responsible and growing up.

00:27:43.334 --> 00:27:45.794
Now all he does is work nonstop.

00:27:46.004 --> 00:27:48.945
He never wanted to be a
workaholic old pattern.

00:27:49.710 --> 00:27:51.330
He says no to downtime.

00:27:51.330 --> 00:27:52.139
That is selfish.

00:27:52.470 --> 00:27:53.159
That is lazy.

00:27:53.250 --> 00:27:55.260
I need to always be on the
go, gotta be doing stuff.

00:27:55.620 --> 00:27:56.580
Re-parenting shift.

00:27:57.389 --> 00:28:00.300
He intentionally books a weekend,
hiking trip with friends.

00:28:00.300 --> 00:28:04.230
He reminds himself fun and rest are
just as important as productivity.

00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.530
I'm allowed to enjoy my life,
raised my emotional baseline.

00:28:08.040 --> 00:28:11.250
This is Trevor, who is giving
his inner child what he missed.

00:28:11.310 --> 00:28:15.840
It's freedom to play and to
explore, and not to always have

00:28:15.840 --> 00:28:18.659
to be on, not a human doing.

00:28:19.080 --> 00:28:20.040
He's a human being.

00:28:20.820 --> 00:28:20.940
Me.

00:28:20.940 --> 00:28:21.510
Do another one.

00:28:21.570 --> 00:28:22.889
Repairing emotional neglect.

00:28:22.889 --> 00:28:24.000
Here's the scenario.

00:28:24.389 --> 00:28:28.260
Call Vanessa feels overwhelmed,
but doesn't want to bother

00:28:28.260 --> 00:28:29.490
anybody with her feelings.

00:28:29.669 --> 00:28:32.040
Doesn't wanna feel like she's too
much, doesn't wanna put anybody out.

00:28:32.580 --> 00:28:36.690
So the old pattern, she'll isolate,
she'll numb out, stay on her phone

00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:39.690
and tell herself, here's too much.

00:28:40.350 --> 00:28:41.460
Just handle it alone.

00:28:41.550 --> 00:28:42.210
You'll figure it out.

00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:43.230
You don't wanna bother anybody.

00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:44.580
Re-parenting shift.

00:28:44.639 --> 00:28:47.730
She reaches out to a trusted friend and
says, I don't need you to fix anything,

00:28:47.790 --> 00:28:50.370
but I'm feeling overwhelmed and I
just, I just need somebody to listen.

00:28:50.370 --> 00:28:51.000
I need to vent.

00:28:51.570 --> 00:28:55.500
She's starting to learn to let others
support her the way a good caregiver would

00:28:55.500 --> 00:29:00.629
have done so in her childhood and showing
herself she's worth being cared for.

00:29:01.020 --> 00:29:05.010
So I would say that by far, in part
one of the podcast on emotional

00:29:05.010 --> 00:29:08.399
immaturity that I received the most
feedback on was the section where

00:29:08.399 --> 00:29:11.730
I gave examples of what emotional
immaturity looks like in childhood,

00:29:11.850 --> 00:29:14.520
and then how those same behaviors
show up in our adult relationships.

00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:19.350
And I created a, a cheat sheet that I've
been sharing with my clients for that.

00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:22.350
I would like to tell you that by
the time you listen to this, you

00:29:22.350 --> 00:29:26.310
can go find it on my website and
that actually might be the case.

00:29:26.310 --> 00:29:31.050
But in the interim, if you would
like this cheat sheet, email me at

00:29:31.139 --> 00:29:32.879
through my website@tonyoverbay.com.

00:29:33.090 --> 00:29:34.440
That would probably be the easiest way.

00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.930
And just say, I would like the
emotional immaturity cheat sheet.

00:29:37.875 --> 00:29:40.365
And then also I would, if you're
taking that time to do that, I

00:29:40.365 --> 00:29:44.085
would love any thoughts, questions,
feedback, examples that came to you

00:29:44.085 --> 00:29:45.405
as you were listening to this as well.

00:29:45.735 --> 00:29:49.545
But in this cheat sheet, I go through
a lot of the different examples

00:29:49.785 --> 00:29:53.145
because I think hearing these concrete
examples, I know it helped myself and

00:29:53.145 --> 00:29:56.715
it's helped a lot of people connect the
dots between their past and patterns

00:29:56.715 --> 00:29:57.765
that they're seeing in their present.

00:29:58.365 --> 00:30:01.545
So I wanna go back and revisit each one
of these emotionally immature traits.

00:30:01.545 --> 00:30:04.605
I'll try to do it quickly 'cause then
we've got more content to get to.

00:30:04.605 --> 00:30:06.135
But I'll define each one
of them again briefly.

00:30:06.135 --> 00:30:10.305
I'll add a couple of more real life
examples that I've seen in therapy, in,

00:30:10.305 --> 00:30:12.345
in the room, or through listener feedback.

00:30:12.345 --> 00:30:16.875
Of course, it has been keeping people's
anonymity in play, but I think it will

00:30:16.875 --> 00:30:18.735
help flesh these things out even more.

00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.160
Let's start with good old black
and white thinking, because this

00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.750
is a tendency to see people or
situations as all good or all bad.

00:30:26.750 --> 00:30:27.650
There's no nuance.

00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:31.550
There's no gray area, no middle
ground, and it's rooted in this binary

00:30:31.550 --> 00:30:34.640
thinking of childhood when things
needed to be simple to feel safe.

00:30:34.970 --> 00:30:36.620
That person's good, that person's bad.

00:30:36.770 --> 00:30:37.970
I feel happy.

00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:38.720
I feel sad.

00:30:38.805 --> 00:30:41.180
Oh, I think I'm channeling
a little Dr. Seuss here.

00:30:41.270 --> 00:30:45.620
Why that is still so easy to
fall into that trap is because

00:30:45.620 --> 00:30:48.590
it does take less emotional work.

00:30:48.650 --> 00:30:52.220
You're burning less emotional calories
If that person does something all

00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:53.420
of a sudden, oh, that, that was bad.

00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:57.740
Therefore, they are bad because the
concept of whole object relations

00:30:57.740 --> 00:31:01.910
or viewing a person, a situation,
organization as an entire object,

00:31:01.970 --> 00:31:05.000
there are things I can still like about
that person, but there are also things

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.660
that are frustrating and that might
be a little more difficult to navigate

00:31:08.660 --> 00:31:12.530
because I really do like when I interact
with this person for these reasons,

00:31:12.530 --> 00:31:16.310
but they're also a real challenge to
me, especially in certain situations.

00:31:16.919 --> 00:31:19.020
It's a lot easier just to
say, you know what, forget it.

00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:20.010
I don't even wanna talk to them.

00:31:20.010 --> 00:31:23.340
Or, okay, I do want to talk to 'em,
but I'll just, I have to ignore,

00:31:23.399 --> 00:31:26.159
shove my feelings down if there
are things that I don't like.

00:31:26.879 --> 00:31:28.889
Again, childhood need simplicity.

00:31:29.189 --> 00:31:30.750
And then, boy, we want certainty.

00:31:31.260 --> 00:31:36.689
And in what is a pretty complex
world to the adult, trying to now

00:31:36.780 --> 00:31:42.629
drive the ship, embrace nuance while
still trying to maintain clarity

00:31:42.659 --> 00:31:44.669
or hold on to your sense of self.

00:31:45.179 --> 00:31:47.850
So the kid version of this is,
you either love me or you hate me.

00:31:47.909 --> 00:31:50.010
That is good, or it is bad to the adult.

00:31:50.550 --> 00:31:55.020
I would love to start encouraging
you to look at things like, I notice

00:31:55.020 --> 00:31:58.530
that I'm feeling insecure about where
I stand with you or this person.

00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:01.200
Now I value clarity in a relationship.

00:32:01.875 --> 00:32:03.014
But also authenticity.

00:32:03.014 --> 00:32:06.254
So I would love to check in
about how you are feeling.

00:32:06.405 --> 00:32:10.875
Here's how I am feeling,
and it is not a judgment.

00:32:11.024 --> 00:32:14.175
Now you may feel like you are being
judged and I want to have that

00:32:14.175 --> 00:32:17.865
conversation too because you can
see it can get a little bit messy

00:32:17.895 --> 00:32:19.304
there in the middle or in the gray.

00:32:20.294 --> 00:32:23.564
Now, when you feel yourself sliding
into all or nothing thinking, try this

00:32:23.564 --> 00:32:25.455
phrase, actually both things can be true.

00:32:25.995 --> 00:32:27.584
That can be really difficult for people.

00:32:27.645 --> 00:32:31.334
And I did an episode a little while ago
on the concept around absolute truth

00:32:31.754 --> 00:32:37.064
and some people want desperately to hang
onto this idea that there is a right, a

00:32:37.064 --> 00:32:39.764
very, very distinct right and a wrong.

00:32:39.764 --> 00:32:43.605
And while there may be in some
situations, I, I would maintain that in

00:32:43.605 --> 00:32:45.675
most things, it's not that cut and dry.

00:32:46.245 --> 00:32:49.845
'cause your partner can both
love you deeply and be pretty

00:32:49.845 --> 00:32:51.135
frustrated with you in this moment.

00:32:51.795 --> 00:32:52.784
And you can do the same.

00:32:53.745 --> 00:32:56.895
A couple of other examples, think of a
person who ends a close friendship over

00:32:56.895 --> 00:32:59.504
a disagreement and they said, you know,
I should have known that they were fake

00:32:59.504 --> 00:33:01.514
from the very start, all or nothing.

00:33:01.665 --> 00:33:06.195
Despite years of connection, one
moment can undo it all because it's

00:33:06.195 --> 00:33:11.355
as if deep inside of us, we don't
want to have to do the mental work to

00:33:11.445 --> 00:33:13.784
acknowledge why is what they're saying.

00:33:13.784 --> 00:33:19.065
Now, why is it hard for me to hear and
why can't I hang on to the things that

00:33:19.065 --> 00:33:20.445
I really appreciate about this person?

00:33:20.955 --> 00:33:23.925
Or I see it so often when a
parent has a bad day with their

00:33:23.925 --> 00:33:26.445
kid and they immediately think,
I have failed them completely.

00:33:26.774 --> 00:33:31.274
I'm a terrible parent because if we go
right to there, there's no room for grace

00:33:31.274 --> 00:33:32.685
and there's not a lot of room for growth.

00:33:32.685 --> 00:33:35.985
Because when you go to that
place of shame, it's as if you

00:33:36.195 --> 00:33:39.585
subconsciously or even consciously
want someone else to say, it's okay.

00:33:39.585 --> 00:33:40.455
You're gonna be okay.

00:33:40.725 --> 00:33:44.655
That might alleviate my discomfort,
but am I really gonna grow?

00:33:44.835 --> 00:33:50.085
Am I really going to take in what I need
to from a self confrontational place?

00:33:50.550 --> 00:33:52.530
And then do the work
that I need to do that.

00:33:52.590 --> 00:33:54.510
That is what my body's
trying to communicate to me.

00:33:55.530 --> 00:33:58.770
Now, the second one that I talked
about is probably my favorite because

00:33:58.770 --> 00:34:00.990
I've realized how often I do this.

00:34:01.050 --> 00:34:02.490
It's the old magical thinking.

00:34:03.060 --> 00:34:07.199
This is that belief that simply thinking
or hoping something will make it happen,

00:34:07.560 --> 00:34:11.520
or that avoiding a problem means it
doesn't actually exist, and it is rooted

00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:15.239
in the way that children believe their
thoughts essentially control the world.

00:34:15.930 --> 00:34:19.530
And it really does cause
us to feel pretty special.

00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:22.740
So I was listening recently to
one of my favorite podcasts.

00:34:22.740 --> 00:34:25.830
I would love to have this person
on my podcast, Derek Thompson

00:34:26.130 --> 00:34:29.580
from The Ringer Network, and his
podcast is called Plain English.

00:34:29.850 --> 00:34:33.120
It was in a slightly different context,
but he was talking about this very

00:34:33.120 --> 00:34:36.990
thing and acknowledging that when he
was in his twenties, he still had this,

00:34:37.020 --> 00:34:42.060
what I would call magical thinking,
that if he wore a certain sock, then

00:34:42.090 --> 00:34:44.010
his day was gonna be better or worse.

00:34:44.310 --> 00:34:48.150
Because I think it, we do this,
we're humans, we're adults that still

00:34:48.390 --> 00:34:52.920
have some of this, this childhood
magical thinking we were supposed to.

00:34:53.670 --> 00:34:57.210
Outgrow this as we had more
of a relationship with cause

00:34:57.210 --> 00:34:58.470
and effect in the world.

00:34:59.040 --> 00:35:04.680
As I still struggle at times to open up
my mail, I am recognizing that if I do not

00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:07.020
open it, I will not know what is in mail.

00:35:07.049 --> 00:35:10.770
There could be bills that need to
be paid, car registrations that

00:35:10.770 --> 00:35:13.200
are expired for several months.

00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:16.049
There could be several things,
hypothetically, and that is magical

00:35:16.049 --> 00:35:19.740
thinking to just think, ah, it
just, it won't, it'll just go away.

00:35:20.069 --> 00:35:23.279
The childhood need here is a
sense of basically personal power.

00:35:23.339 --> 00:35:27.810
Again, in a, an overwhelming world
as a kid, and now to adults, we can

00:35:27.810 --> 00:35:31.740
translate that as a balanced agency
with these realistic expectations.

00:35:32.190 --> 00:35:34.980
So to the child, if I don't
mention the problem, it will

00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:37.049
disappear to the very young child.

00:35:37.049 --> 00:35:39.330
If I cover my eyes, I have disappeared.

00:35:40.170 --> 00:35:43.560
To the adult, I notice that
I'm avoiding the issue.

00:35:43.770 --> 00:35:47.400
And while I cannot control everything,
I can take specific steps today

00:35:47.640 --> 00:35:48.810
that move me toward a solution.

00:35:48.810 --> 00:35:50.430
I can actually look at my bank account.

00:35:50.430 --> 00:35:51.509
I can open my mail.

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:56.370
And what can be really difficult
is this happens in relationships.

00:35:57.120 --> 00:36:03.660
I, if I don't have this conversation, it
may get better or, well, we talked about

00:36:03.660 --> 00:36:07.259
having a conversation today when we were
in the heat of the moment last night,

00:36:07.650 --> 00:36:11.100
but my wife hasn't mentioned anything
today, so she probably forgot about it.

00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.250
But in reality, it's my magical thinking.

00:36:14.790 --> 00:36:18.480
So the mature version of magical
thinking is setting intention.

00:36:19.350 --> 00:36:21.030
And also taking action.

00:36:21.240 --> 00:36:25.650
I will tell myself, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
budget, I'm gonna open my mail later

00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.710
Sunday evening before the week starts.

00:36:28.950 --> 00:36:31.440
And that makes me feel better
on a Saturday afternoon when

00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:32.550
I wanna be doing other things.

00:36:32.550 --> 00:36:35.730
But then when Sunday evening comes
along, then do I. It's not a good time.

00:36:36.450 --> 00:36:39.300
Magic happens not when we
wish, but actually when we

00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:41.185
combine vision with effort.

00:36:41.710 --> 00:36:45.549
When I actually do open my mail and
deal with my problems, while I can

00:36:45.549 --> 00:36:49.720
feel frustrated about a late bill
that I could have paid had I opened

00:36:49.720 --> 00:36:54.310
my mail sooner, I can also feel
a sense of relief and empowerment

00:36:54.310 --> 00:36:55.629
because now I'm doing something.

00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:59.500
Some of the examples that you see in
adulthood, somebody doesn't communicate

00:36:59.500 --> 00:37:01.990
their needs in a relationship, but
they believe they really love me.

00:37:02.080 --> 00:37:05.980
They would just know if you were
convinced that if I just stay positive,

00:37:06.399 --> 00:37:09.250
then all my problems will go away
if I can just choose to be happy.

00:37:09.399 --> 00:37:12.640
While that sounds amazing, that's
a little bit magical thinking

00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:17.379
that I can just positive my way
through difficult situations

00:37:17.770 --> 00:37:19.839
without dealing with the situation.

00:37:20.355 --> 00:37:23.955
With just, I believe the phrase
at times is toxic positivity.

00:37:24.225 --> 00:37:27.015
I would even may maybe put in there
when I talk about pathological

00:37:27.015 --> 00:37:30.495
kindness, where kindness, when it's
pathological is to your detriment.

00:37:30.975 --> 00:37:32.865
I think that I would
put into this category.

00:37:32.895 --> 00:37:36.495
Pathological positivity also has
a nice alliterative ring to it.

00:37:36.645 --> 00:37:41.145
I am noticing now that I want to say this
one also is my favorite because these are

00:37:41.145 --> 00:37:42.765
fascinating when you really look at 'em.

00:37:43.275 --> 00:37:44.685
The next one is emotional reasoning.

00:37:44.685 --> 00:37:47.025
Now, the definition, this is when
somebody believes that because they

00:37:47.025 --> 00:37:48.555
feel something, it must be true.

00:37:48.555 --> 00:37:50.955
I feel rejected, so you are rejecting me.

00:37:50.984 --> 00:37:55.755
Even if that's not the case,
this can be quite a setup for

00:37:55.845 --> 00:37:57.285
insanity in a relationship.

00:37:57.585 --> 00:38:01.964
I may feel that you are rejecting me or
let's use a, maybe even a simpler one.

00:38:02.444 --> 00:38:06.645
I don't think you care about me
in the relationship I. I feel that

00:38:06.645 --> 00:38:08.445
way, therefore it must be true.

00:38:08.925 --> 00:38:10.605
So therefore you don't care about me.

00:38:10.635 --> 00:38:13.635
Now, you now must prove to
me that you care about me.

00:38:13.905 --> 00:38:17.865
And the more I'm bringing up this
emotional reasoning in my office,

00:38:17.865 --> 00:38:21.525
in couples relationships, is the
person bringing that it's obvious

00:38:21.525 --> 00:38:22.635
that he doesn't care about me.

00:38:23.925 --> 00:38:26.775
Now, I can frame this, okay,
that's a bit of a, an emotionally

00:38:26.775 --> 00:38:29.175
immature response because I feel it.

00:38:29.175 --> 00:38:30.285
Therefore, it must be true.

00:38:30.375 --> 00:38:31.485
That worked in childhood.

00:38:31.485 --> 00:38:32.115
It really did.

00:38:32.625 --> 00:38:35.025
And it would get us some of the
validation, the recognition,

00:38:35.025 --> 00:38:36.465
acknowledgement to the attention.

00:38:36.885 --> 00:38:39.705
But now, as an adult, I can
notice that and I can really,

00:38:39.735 --> 00:38:41.505
I can believe that to me.

00:38:41.595 --> 00:38:46.815
But as I convey that to my partner,
I'm feeling like you don't care Now.

00:38:47.595 --> 00:38:50.415
In the immature version
of this, it's, it is.

00:38:50.415 --> 00:38:53.384
So now you need to start dancing
and show me that you do care.

00:38:53.475 --> 00:38:57.075
But here's the part that I like to bring
up now, in therapy, the person saying,

00:38:57.075 --> 00:39:02.415
you don't care if I turn to them and say,
okay, what do you need right now to feel

00:39:02.444 --> 00:39:05.444
cared about, to feel more of a connection?

00:39:05.444 --> 00:39:06.345
Like they care.

00:39:06.794 --> 00:39:09.375
And most of the time I won't
go all or nothing statements.

00:39:09.375 --> 00:39:11.115
Most of the time the person
then says, I don't know.

00:39:11.115 --> 00:39:14.115
I just, it's a, I feel like that
they don't, I don't think they do

00:39:14.115 --> 00:39:16.845
care 'cause it just feels that way.

00:39:17.625 --> 00:39:20.024
So then I can frame that,
okay, you feel this.

00:39:20.024 --> 00:39:22.064
You're not even sure what
would make you feel better.

00:39:22.154 --> 00:39:25.875
And you're now telling him, now
he's said, I think I do care.

00:39:26.475 --> 00:39:29.714
But now you're saying, I don't
think you do make me feel cared

00:39:29.714 --> 00:39:33.285
for, even though I don't even know
what that's gonna look like again.

00:39:33.464 --> 00:39:34.455
So start dancing now.

00:39:34.455 --> 00:39:36.015
If for some reason then he can't.

00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:40.080
Make that happen, which is more, more
likely than not because you can see all

00:39:40.080 --> 00:39:41.940
the ambiguity and the uncertainty here.

00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:47.430
Then you get to say, see, told you he
doesn't care and he's gonna think, I do.

00:39:47.430 --> 00:39:47.760
I do.

00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.170
I, I sure feel like I care.

00:39:49.530 --> 00:39:53.430
And then you get to internalize too,
that maybe I'm not even lovable.

00:39:54.150 --> 00:39:57.720
This comes from this childhood
need of the recognition and

00:39:57.720 --> 00:39:59.070
validation of intense feelings.

00:39:59.070 --> 00:39:59.910
The feeling can be there.

00:39:59.910 --> 00:40:00.300
Look at this.

00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:00.930
I'm noticing that.

00:40:00.930 --> 00:40:02.880
I feel uncared for now.

00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.060
If we can talk about it in a mature
way, then I can bring that up to you.

00:40:06.120 --> 00:40:08.670
You're using my beloved four
pillars of a connected conversation.

00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.120
Alright?

00:40:09.120 --> 00:40:10.380
I'll assume good intentions.

00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:11.400
You're not trying to hurt me with that.

00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.320
I'm not gonna tell you that's
ridiculous or you're wrong.

00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:16.740
Even if I don't agree, which
leads to my pillar three.

00:40:16.740 --> 00:40:19.380
I'm gonna ask questions
before I make my own comments.

00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.280
Tell me more about that.

00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:21.090
Help me understand.

00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:22.590
Help me see my blind spots.

00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:23.310
What am I missing?

00:40:23.520 --> 00:40:24.420
When do you feel this way?

00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:25.440
How long have you felt that way?

00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:27.060
Have you tried to bring
this up to me in the past?

00:40:27.060 --> 00:40:27.990
What have I done with that?

00:40:28.110 --> 00:40:31.170
When you have, because I can imagine
that would be really difficult.

00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:35.910
Pillar four then is I'm, I can't go into
a victim mindset and say, you're right.

00:40:35.910 --> 00:40:37.140
I'm a just a big old piece of garbage.

00:40:37.140 --> 00:40:38.220
I guess I don't really care.

00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:38.700
You're right.

00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:42.450
Because then if I go give that victim
energy, now the person that actually

00:40:42.450 --> 00:40:47.160
is the one saying, I don't feel like
you care now I have to go rescue you.

00:40:47.220 --> 00:40:49.230
Well, my, I'm sorry I, you do, that's me.

00:40:49.230 --> 00:40:50.160
I shouldn't even brought it up.

00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:54.060
Honoring your emotions
without being ruled by them.

00:40:54.180 --> 00:40:57.690
It's this childhood need to recognize
and validate our intense feelings.

00:40:57.690 --> 00:41:01.740
But we weren't even, we weren't even
really modeled a healthy way to handle our

00:41:01.740 --> 00:41:05.010
own feelings or our emotions as a child.

00:41:05.220 --> 00:41:08.700
This was really coming from a
place of, I feel terrified, so

00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:10.860
this situation is dangerous.

00:41:11.580 --> 00:41:13.830
The adult version, I'm
noticing, I'm feeling terrified.

00:41:13.830 --> 00:41:15.690
My feelings are giving
me important information.

00:41:15.750 --> 00:41:19.200
My feelings are telling me this might be
something we need to pay attention to.

00:41:19.680 --> 00:41:22.710
But as an adult, I will check the
evidence before deciding how to respond.

00:41:23.850 --> 00:41:27.180
Uh, maybe you can try the phrase, I
am having the feeling that, or I'm

00:41:27.180 --> 00:41:32.339
noticing that rather than it is, it
seems simple, but this little tiny

00:41:32.339 --> 00:41:35.430
language shift can start to create
space between you and the emotion.

00:41:35.730 --> 00:41:41.009
It goes back to that concept of instead
of, I'm angry, it's okay, check this out.

00:41:41.009 --> 00:41:42.600
I'm noticing that I'm feeling angry.

00:41:42.990 --> 00:41:46.080
'cause then I can take just enough
of a step back from it to say, what

00:41:46.080 --> 00:41:50.460
is it about this situation that is
causing me to feel anger, because then

00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:52.170
I can look at it with more curiosity.

00:41:53.040 --> 00:41:54.420
A couple of other examples
that come to mind.

00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:56.970
Somebody feels anxious before a family
gathering and then they assume that

00:41:56.970 --> 00:41:58.110
means something bad is gonna happen.

00:41:58.529 --> 00:42:00.180
Even if they've had good
experiences in the past.

00:42:01.170 --> 00:42:05.129
I am not saying to doubt your
intuition or to not trust your gut.

00:42:05.490 --> 00:42:08.609
As a matter of fact, I think
that is some of the worst advice.

00:42:08.670 --> 00:42:14.759
The best advice is to take in your
experience, notice your intuition, listen

00:42:14.759 --> 00:42:18.060
to your gut because it is trying to tell
you something, and most likely it's been

00:42:18.060 --> 00:42:20.819
trying to tell you that since childhood,
but we've been suppressing that.

00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:24.180
But having a healthy relationship with
your emotions and your feelings and

00:42:24.180 --> 00:42:27.420
being able to allow them to be and
to look at them and thank them and

00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:29.190
say, what are you trying to tell me?

00:42:29.580 --> 00:42:32.670
Because thank you, I have shoved
you down for far too long.

00:42:32.759 --> 00:42:36.509
Think of a person that to sends a text
and does not get an immediate response.

00:42:37.109 --> 00:42:38.670
This is such a common thing now.

00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:41.939
Somebody then thinks to themselves,
okay, they must be mad at me.

00:42:42.270 --> 00:42:45.509
Then they spiral emotionally
without really checking in with

00:42:45.509 --> 00:42:47.129
themselves or the other person.

00:42:47.279 --> 00:42:50.609
So next we have the dependence
on external validation.

00:42:51.419 --> 00:42:55.259
This shows up as needing others
to constantly affirm your worth,

00:42:55.379 --> 00:42:56.759
to tell you that you are okay.

00:42:57.089 --> 00:43:00.930
If nobody is clapping for you, you
may not feel like you matter, and

00:43:00.930 --> 00:43:02.279
it doesn't have to be that dramatic.

00:43:02.370 --> 00:43:07.890
It comes from a childhood need of this
confirmation that you belong, that you

00:43:07.890 --> 00:43:12.779
are worthy, that you have value, that
you matter, and we get our sense of self.

00:43:13.040 --> 00:43:15.290
When we're children from
external validation.

00:43:15.290 --> 00:43:17.750
So it is, it is wired into us.

00:43:17.750 --> 00:43:21.800
And I often find that people, when
they're learning about differentiation

00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:25.190
or they're learning more about the ways
they show up emotionally immature will

00:43:25.190 --> 00:43:29.720
say things like, I know I need to not
need external validation, which I think

00:43:29.720 --> 00:43:33.860
goes back to, that sounds pretty black
or white to me, because it is still

00:43:33.860 --> 00:43:36.500
something that does feel good at times.

00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:41.480
And it is the long game to get
to this place where you no longer

00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:47.150
require it to know that you matter,
but that it can be okay, or I, I

00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:49.400
can appreciate it when it comes in.

00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:52.640
So to the adult, this is differentiation.

00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:57.890
This is about trying to maintain or
hold onto my autonomy while maintaining

00:43:57.890 --> 00:43:59.510
a connection with another human.

00:44:00.050 --> 00:44:05.150
And those are two of our most basic
inherent and also difficult needs

00:44:05.150 --> 00:44:08.360
that we're trying to, to balance,
to manage in our relationships.

00:44:08.690 --> 00:44:11.630
So the kid version, it's
the kid saying, am I okay?

00:44:12.140 --> 00:44:13.160
Did I do that right?

00:44:13.310 --> 00:44:14.390
Do you still like me?

00:44:14.660 --> 00:44:15.860
What can I do better?

00:44:15.980 --> 00:44:17.090
So that you will like me?

00:44:17.540 --> 00:44:20.120
I, I will have adults come into my office.

00:44:20.535 --> 00:44:24.375
Regularly and say, I just want people
to tell me what they don't like

00:44:24.375 --> 00:44:26.475
about me because then I can fix it.

00:44:26.655 --> 00:44:31.575
But that is a, a need, or we get our whole
sense of self as an adult, then still

00:44:31.875 --> 00:44:34.275
from what others think or others feel.

00:44:34.575 --> 00:44:37.815
And that's where it was
necessary as a kid, a childhood

00:44:37.815 --> 00:44:39.645
adaptation that kept you alive.

00:44:39.945 --> 00:44:45.435
But as an adult, it is where you, you
lack a true or solid sense of self.

00:44:45.765 --> 00:44:49.965
And you can be swayed by how
someone is feeling that day.

00:44:50.115 --> 00:44:53.775
And I think it's interesting if
I'm saying, well, I just wanna know

00:44:53.775 --> 00:44:57.135
what you think about me or what you
think I should do in this situation.

00:44:57.375 --> 00:45:01.845
While it may sound like you are
seeking connection, it really

00:45:01.845 --> 00:45:03.465
is though seeking validation.

00:45:03.945 --> 00:45:07.425
And in that scenario, you're asking
this person that doesn't know what

00:45:07.425 --> 00:45:11.595
it feels like to be you, to weigh in
on what you should do with your life.

00:45:11.875 --> 00:45:15.355
If you really just look at it that way,
and I want to wanna take you back, I won't

00:45:15.355 --> 00:45:20.275
out this person, this is someone in my,
in my distant family, but they were around

00:45:20.485 --> 00:45:22.945
me, my wife and a couple of my daughters.

00:45:22.945 --> 00:45:26.155
And they said, Hey, what do you
guys think about me going to Turkey

00:45:26.185 --> 00:45:27.595
and getting hair transplants?

00:45:28.195 --> 00:45:30.445
And at that point, my wife
and daughter said, oh no, you,

00:45:30.445 --> 00:45:31.975
you, you don't want do that.

00:45:32.065 --> 00:45:35.545
And I stopped and felt like I pulled
my therapist card out and I said,

00:45:35.725 --> 00:45:38.995
Hey, so it sounds like you are, you
are ready to go get hair transplants,

00:45:38.995 --> 00:45:40.345
but you're wanting validation.

00:45:40.375 --> 00:45:44.755
You want people to say, I think it's a
great idea, but in reality Well, and I

00:45:44.755 --> 00:45:47.935
didn't just jump right to there, I said,
how much have you researched about it?

00:45:47.995 --> 00:45:48.895
And they said, plenty.

00:45:49.165 --> 00:45:50.845
And I said, do you already know the cost?

00:45:50.875 --> 00:45:51.295
Yes.

00:45:51.325 --> 00:45:53.395
Do you know where you
would go to get it done?

00:45:53.455 --> 00:45:53.965
Yes.

00:45:53.965 --> 00:45:57.325
Have you watched countless amounts
of YouTube videos and tiktoks

00:45:57.330 --> 00:45:59.335
and Instagram reels about it?

00:45:59.665 --> 00:46:00.025
Yes.

00:46:00.025 --> 00:46:04.105
Has it, has it flooded your, your
for you pages and your algorithm

00:46:04.105 --> 00:46:05.425
is presenting with nothing but.

00:46:06.315 --> 00:46:08.865
Videos about hair transplants
and they said yes.

00:46:09.195 --> 00:46:11.865
So then I said, it sounds like you're
gonna get hair transplants, but

00:46:11.865 --> 00:46:15.015
you're curious if anyone has heard of
it or, but you're, you're basically

00:46:15.015 --> 00:46:17.625
saying, let me provide you with this
thing that you're not even aware of.

00:46:17.625 --> 00:46:20.295
You definitely don't know what it feels
like to be me, but then I wanna know

00:46:20.295 --> 00:46:24.015
what you think about it and I'm gonna
base my, uh, decisions or my inherent

00:46:24.015 --> 00:46:26.595
worth on your reaction or your response.

00:46:26.925 --> 00:46:31.185
And then it was funny because he did say,
yeah, I guess, I guess I, I just need to

00:46:31.185 --> 00:46:33.435
say, Hey, I'm gonna do this like that.

00:46:33.435 --> 00:46:34.275
That's interesting.

00:46:34.695 --> 00:46:40.455
Now, side note then my algorithm
for you pages on all app apps for

00:46:40.455 --> 00:46:42.225
a little while was showing me.

00:46:43.230 --> 00:46:44.009
Hair transplants.

00:46:44.009 --> 00:46:47.190
Now it is far too late for me to do
that, but it was just, that was a,

00:46:47.250 --> 00:46:48.509
that was an interesting side note.

00:46:49.050 --> 00:46:54.090
But it goes from that childhood adaptation
of, Hey, if you can tell me what you think

00:46:54.090 --> 00:46:58.080
I should do or how I can show up better
for you, then you will still like me.

00:46:58.080 --> 00:47:00.240
I will feel like I matter and I exist.

00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:03.450
But then as we go about life, having our
own experiences and starting to recognize

00:47:03.450 --> 00:47:07.140
the things that we actually want to do
with our lives and relationships and

00:47:07.140 --> 00:47:11.700
careers, school, whatever that looks
like, then it becomes this desire for

00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:16.470
autonomy for me to figure this out and
I can, I can interact with others and

00:47:16.470 --> 00:47:19.470
ask them their opinion, but I need to
recognize that as just their opinion.

00:47:19.710 --> 00:47:20.910
What would that look like for an adult?

00:47:20.970 --> 00:47:22.529
Hey, I notice I'm seeking reassurance.

00:47:22.740 --> 00:47:24.090
Let me check in with myself first.

00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:27.630
Let me, let me identify my values versus
this choice in line with who I want to

00:47:27.630 --> 00:47:29.970
be regardless of other people's opinions.

00:47:30.270 --> 00:47:31.230
I can still ask somebody.

00:47:31.230 --> 00:47:32.520
They are, they are my muse.

00:47:32.520 --> 00:47:34.980
If they say, I think it's
ridiculous, then I can realize I.

00:47:35.340 --> 00:47:35.520
Okay.

00:47:35.520 --> 00:47:38.550
Actually I don't, I could even be curious
as to why they think it's ridiculous,

00:47:38.550 --> 00:47:42.090
which is a fair point because they don't
know what it feels like to be me or the

00:47:42.450 --> 00:47:44.070
research that I've done in this scenario.

00:47:44.700 --> 00:47:46.470
External validation again, is not bad.

00:47:46.710 --> 00:47:51.840
The mature shift is from I need others'
approval to feel okay to, I appreciate

00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:56.760
others' feedback as one data point, but
I'm still maintaining my internal compass.

00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:59.820
Some additional examples of this are
somebody who changes how they dress

00:47:59.850 --> 00:48:02.310
or how they speak or how they act
depending on the group that they're

00:48:02.310 --> 00:48:05.880
with, even if it contradicts their
own preferences or their own values.

00:48:06.240 --> 00:48:09.210
I did a live q and a with my
daughter Mackey, and I think there's

00:48:09.210 --> 00:48:11.070
a clip out on social media now.

00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:15.810
We talked about the concept of a pick me
girl, pick me, not pick me, which I think

00:48:15.810 --> 00:48:21.060
are smaller people, but a pick me girl
is one that who says, you know, pick me.

00:48:21.060 --> 00:48:22.650
I'll do whatever it
takes for you to pick me.

00:48:22.710 --> 00:48:26.520
And what that can look like in therapy
is somebody that says, Hey, I'm, I'm

00:48:26.520 --> 00:48:28.080
really good at getting people to like me.

00:48:28.140 --> 00:48:29.790
I can be whoever they need me to be.

00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:34.470
But in the course of that, they
often lack a solid sense of self.

00:48:34.680 --> 00:48:39.750
When somebody does have this in inherent
or incessant need for external validation,

00:48:40.140 --> 00:48:44.730
then they often feel like something is
wrong with them or lost or anxious when

00:48:44.730 --> 00:48:50.790
they get a response to a message that
they don't like, or when that person sees

00:48:50.790 --> 00:48:54.090
them in a way that they don't really think
that that's the person that they are.

00:48:54.450 --> 00:48:54.660
Okay.

00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:58.470
Now let's talk about difficulty with
taking ownership or, or accountability.

00:48:59.100 --> 00:49:05.760
The definition would be instead of
owning your own mistakes or acknowledging

00:49:05.910 --> 00:49:11.130
that your inconsistencies you
deflect, you blame shift, you become

00:49:11.130 --> 00:49:15.990
defensive, you gaslight, gaslighting
is a childhood defense mechanism.

00:49:16.290 --> 00:49:21.750
These are tools that were used to avoid
punishment or blame because especially

00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:27.240
as children, we would typically
devolve into shame and move from guilt.

00:49:27.270 --> 00:49:28.560
I feel bad to shame.

00:49:28.560 --> 00:49:29.490
I am bad.

00:49:29.550 --> 00:49:32.550
That is still at the core of this.

00:49:33.075 --> 00:49:36.464
Lack of taking ownership or
accountability of things is that if

00:49:36.464 --> 00:49:40.455
I do, then this person will think
I am all bad, or they will now kick

00:49:40.455 --> 00:49:42.225
me out of the family or the tribe.

00:49:43.035 --> 00:49:48.075
The childhood need here that was
addressed by this behavior was protection

00:49:48.315 --> 00:49:52.125
from rejection and abandonment,
because when you're a kid, we have

00:49:52.125 --> 00:49:56.775
these deep, deep inherent fears that
if I can't get others to like me.

00:49:57.210 --> 00:50:01.319
Then they will leave me and
it becomes a zero sum game.

00:50:01.319 --> 00:50:03.390
There is a right and a
wrong, a good and a bad.

00:50:03.390 --> 00:50:07.890
I do not want to be the one that is wrong
or bad, so I will do everything I can to

00:50:07.890 --> 00:50:12.540
deflect that blame or not take ownership
or acknowledge to get outta that moment

00:50:12.540 --> 00:50:15.690
because then I survive now to the adult.

00:50:16.170 --> 00:50:19.740
It takes a lot of vulnerability
to take ownership of things.

00:50:19.799 --> 00:50:23.220
It's actually a form of
self-compassion to recognize I

00:50:23.220 --> 00:50:25.529
don't have to be perfect, that I am.

00:50:25.620 --> 00:50:28.259
I am okay as I am, and that I'm
going through life for the first

00:50:28.259 --> 00:50:30.870
time and I am going to make mistakes.

00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.900
I'm going to be inconsistent,
and I'm going to use those

00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:35.190
opportunities for growth.

00:50:36.075 --> 00:50:39.285
What the child says, it wasn't
my fault, or you made me do

00:50:39.285 --> 00:50:40.365
it, or you never said that.

00:50:40.455 --> 00:50:41.325
The adult version.

00:50:41.955 --> 00:50:45.465
So I did contribute to this situation
in ways that I'm, that probably

00:50:45.465 --> 00:50:47.025
weren't my best, that I wish I hadn't.

00:50:47.295 --> 00:50:50.505
I can take ownership of that
without defining myself by

00:50:50.955 --> 00:50:52.365
the mistakes that I've made.

00:50:52.725 --> 00:50:55.125
As a matter of fact, I can use
those as opportunities for growth.

00:50:55.695 --> 00:51:00.165
And I think it's important here to notice
how shame often drives defensiveness.

00:51:00.615 --> 00:51:03.945
And the antidote to shame
is not harsh criticism.

00:51:04.095 --> 00:51:04.845
It's connection.

00:51:04.845 --> 00:51:06.105
It's taking gentle ownership.

00:51:06.105 --> 00:51:06.765
It's love.

00:51:07.005 --> 00:51:08.055
Hey, I did that.

00:51:08.055 --> 00:51:13.425
I messed up, and I am still worthy of love
and belonging because I'm not perfect.

00:51:14.295 --> 00:51:16.875
Some examples that have come up recently,
somebody forgets an anniversary and

00:51:16.875 --> 00:51:18.255
says, well, you didn't remind me.

00:51:18.465 --> 00:51:21.555
Instead of simply apologizing,
I, my bad, I forgot.

00:51:21.975 --> 00:51:24.525
I need to do a better job
of, of writing things down.

00:51:25.815 --> 00:51:29.625
Or during an argument, I heard this
one very recently, maybe even earlier

00:51:29.625 --> 00:51:32.985
today, where a spouse said to the
other, you're just too sensitive.

00:51:33.225 --> 00:51:37.005
Instead of acknowledging that what
they said may have been hurtful and

00:51:37.005 --> 00:51:43.395
we were able to explore that, is
she too sensitive or did you come on

00:51:43.485 --> 00:51:48.855
too strong and you do now feel bad
because you see how that impacted her.

00:51:49.635 --> 00:51:54.015
Another one of these emotionally
immature concepts is mind reading.

00:51:54.735 --> 00:51:57.735
This is when somebody assumes that
their partner or or somebody else

00:51:57.765 --> 00:52:01.305
should just know what they're thinking
or feeling without expressing it.

00:52:02.055 --> 00:52:06.165
I hear some modifiers that go into this
one often in the couple's communication

00:52:06.165 --> 00:52:10.215
world of, well, obviously, or everyone
knows or, well, you would think that.

00:52:11.055 --> 00:52:14.685
And then when those things aren't
reciprocated or acknowledged, then

00:52:14.685 --> 00:52:18.825
they feel hurt or angry because these
unspoken expectations aren't met.

00:52:19.004 --> 00:52:23.205
And then mind reading, this
emotionally immature behavior comes

00:52:23.205 --> 00:52:26.174
in of where now I'm, I'm hurt.

00:52:26.205 --> 00:52:30.944
You must not care about me because you
didn't meet these unspoken expectations.

00:52:31.125 --> 00:52:33.855
I can kind of hide behind,
but that everybody knows, so

00:52:33.855 --> 00:52:34.904
you should have known as well.

00:52:35.654 --> 00:52:38.024
And where this comes from
in your childhood is an.

00:52:38.549 --> 00:52:40.919
Desire for predictability
and relationships.

00:52:41.100 --> 00:52:44.160
It would be great if we all, well,
I don't think it would, but I think

00:52:44.160 --> 00:52:46.500
our mind wants to say, it would be
wonderful if we all operated from

00:52:46.830 --> 00:52:50.520
this, this just solid always on.

00:52:50.549 --> 00:52:53.279
These are the way that, that,
this is the way that everybody

00:52:53.279 --> 00:52:54.450
shows up in relationships.

00:52:54.870 --> 00:52:55.799
Everyone knows this.

00:52:55.799 --> 00:52:59.939
So then if you are not doing this the
exact way that I think that we all know,

00:52:59.939 --> 00:53:01.830
then that means you obviously don't care.

00:53:01.830 --> 00:53:03.870
And now I can make meaning of
that and point that out to you.

00:53:05.279 --> 00:53:10.230
To the adult though, this really
means we need to be more curious and

00:53:10.230 --> 00:53:13.529
have a clear communication curiosity.

00:53:13.620 --> 00:53:17.640
That is a challenge if, if you are still
listening and you're here with me now,

00:53:18.509 --> 00:53:21.359
notice how often you lack curiosity.

00:53:21.359 --> 00:53:22.230
I'll be that bold.

00:53:22.845 --> 00:53:26.805
I do see it every day in my office where
someone says, well, I think what he

00:53:26.805 --> 00:53:30.495
feels is, or what I think he's doing,
or what I don't think he realizes is,

00:53:30.585 --> 00:53:35.835
and I will now routinely say, well ask
him, do you think that you do this?

00:53:35.835 --> 00:53:37.605
Or are you, what do you think about?

00:53:37.605 --> 00:53:39.555
Or are you aware of this?

00:53:40.154 --> 00:53:44.895
And, and it is still very difficult,
even under the trained eye of the

00:53:44.895 --> 00:53:48.884
therapist to have people genuinely be
curious about their partner's experience.

00:53:48.884 --> 00:53:52.605
It's much easier to tell somebody
how they think or feel and then say,

00:53:52.634 --> 00:53:53.865
okay, now you need to defend it.

00:53:53.865 --> 00:53:57.975
Versus this is what I think, but
I'm gonna start with my questions

00:53:57.975 --> 00:53:59.234
before I make my comments.

00:54:00.015 --> 00:54:00.555
It's kids.

00:54:00.555 --> 00:54:02.565
It was just, you should know
what I want without me saying it.

00:54:02.955 --> 00:54:05.535
And then since you didn't do that,
then you obviously don't love me

00:54:05.654 --> 00:54:07.095
and I can try to make sense of that.

00:54:07.634 --> 00:54:10.545
But to the adult, it would,
it would sound like I noticed.

00:54:10.545 --> 00:54:11.745
I'm expecting you to read my mind.

00:54:11.745 --> 00:54:14.865
I. Let me, let me use this
as an opportunity to practice

00:54:14.865 --> 00:54:16.424
expressing my needs directly.

00:54:16.875 --> 00:54:20.415
I would love it if you would, but
then I need you to be honest, and

00:54:20.415 --> 00:54:23.835
if that is something that you aren't
able to do or you're curious why

00:54:23.835 --> 00:54:28.274
I would want that, then let's have
a, an adult mature conversation.

00:54:28.815 --> 00:54:32.024
So when you catch yourself creating
stories about other people's intentions,

00:54:32.415 --> 00:54:33.555
that is your chance to pivot.

00:54:33.734 --> 00:54:36.375
I don't actually know what
they're thinking and I need to

00:54:36.375 --> 00:54:38.415
be curious and, and learn more.

00:54:38.835 --> 00:54:41.774
In my beloved four pillars of a
connected conversation, I inserted a

00:54:41.774 --> 00:54:45.254
pre pillar before you get to assuming
good intentions or there's a reason why

00:54:45.254 --> 00:54:46.725
people do or say the things they do.

00:54:47.085 --> 00:54:49.995
And it's taken from the work of Marshall
Rosenberg and his book Nonviolent

00:54:49.995 --> 00:54:53.895
Communication, and that is to separate
your observation from your judgment.

00:54:54.765 --> 00:54:57.645
Someone walks by and they
don't say a word to me.

00:54:58.004 --> 00:54:58.904
That's my observation.

00:54:58.904 --> 00:55:03.194
My judgment is they, boy, they don't care
about me, but I need to separate those.

00:55:03.555 --> 00:55:07.005
They walked by me and I'm noticing that
I am thinking they don't care about me.

00:55:07.065 --> 00:55:09.525
When I can separate the
observation from the judgment,

00:55:09.855 --> 00:55:11.085
now I can jump into the framework.

00:55:11.115 --> 00:55:11.535
Okay?

00:55:11.685 --> 00:55:14.085
I'm gonna assume that they weren't
trying to hurt me with that,

00:55:14.085 --> 00:55:17.685
or, or if they didn't connect
with me, there's a reason why.

00:55:17.714 --> 00:55:20.565
Could be because they were caught up
in thought, or they didn't recognize or

00:55:20.565 --> 00:55:25.035
didn't notice me, which will then lead
to the pillar two of I'm not gonna tell

00:55:25.035 --> 00:55:27.735
them what they're doing is wrong, or
I don't believe whatever they tell me.

00:55:27.765 --> 00:55:30.105
And I'm even gonna jump into
pillar three and be curious.

00:55:30.105 --> 00:55:31.725
I'm gonna ask questions
before I make comments.

00:55:32.475 --> 00:55:34.695
Other examples recently,
somebody made dinner.

00:55:34.725 --> 00:55:37.875
They are visibly upset when their partner
doesn't say thank you or compliments the

00:55:37.875 --> 00:55:43.005
meal, but they have never been one that
has communicated that they, they are

00:55:43.005 --> 00:55:48.075
noticing that they are looking forward
to, to a compliment or looking forward

00:55:48.075 --> 00:55:52.185
to an acknowledgement that they made the
meal, but they never communicated that.

00:55:52.185 --> 00:55:55.785
So they harbor this resentment deep inside
and their partner doesn't even know it.

00:55:55.845 --> 00:55:58.575
This was based off of a conversation
recently where when we finally

00:55:58.575 --> 00:56:02.865
dug into the deep waters of this
concept, it was the husband who

00:56:02.865 --> 00:56:06.375
was not thanking the wife for, for.

00:56:06.705 --> 00:56:10.815
Cooking dinner on a regular basis,
and, and then we dug in deep in

00:56:10.815 --> 00:56:14.955
his past and his, his mom didn't
deal with compliments at all.

00:56:14.955 --> 00:56:17.745
As a matter of fact, she would
turn it back around and say,

00:56:17.745 --> 00:56:19.065
who, who put you up to that?

00:56:19.065 --> 00:56:19.845
Why are you saying that?

00:56:19.845 --> 00:56:20.505
What do you need?

00:56:20.505 --> 00:56:21.255
What's your angle?

00:56:21.285 --> 00:56:22.365
What are your expectations?

00:56:22.665 --> 00:56:26.895
The guy had learned that, okay, I, I'm
afraid to give a compliment because

00:56:26.955 --> 00:56:28.695
that's what I've seen mapped or modeled.

00:56:28.995 --> 00:56:30.315
So it was, it was a pretty good moment.

00:56:30.495 --> 00:56:33.435
Or another example is a person
who felt very slighted when they

00:56:33.435 --> 00:56:36.915
weren't invited to an event with,
with some friends from their church.

00:56:37.035 --> 00:56:40.335
They just assumed, well, those
people don't, they don't value me.

00:56:40.395 --> 00:56:42.255
They don't like me, and
they don't care about me.

00:56:42.585 --> 00:56:45.285
But they did not know the
entire context of the event.

00:56:46.064 --> 00:56:48.555
Another is poor emotional boundaries.

00:56:48.975 --> 00:56:53.205
So this involves confusing where you end
and where someone else begins emotionally.

00:56:53.595 --> 00:56:56.834
So you might take responsibility
for somebody else's emotions or you

00:56:56.834 --> 00:56:58.634
might expect them to manage yours.

00:56:58.814 --> 00:57:04.725
And this comes from this, this childhood
need to, to connect and belong through,

00:57:04.725 --> 00:57:10.424
through codependency, through enmeshment
that I know we're okay if we, if we are

00:57:10.424 --> 00:57:15.044
enmeshed, if we are just on the exact same
page with everything, even to the point

00:57:15.044 --> 00:57:20.024
where then again, I will, I will sacrifice
my own sense of self or wellbeing in the

00:57:20.024 --> 00:57:23.654
name of the relationship to the adult.

00:57:23.895 --> 00:57:28.575
We think we are looking for intimacy,
but we're still looking for validation.

00:57:29.325 --> 00:57:33.915
Instead of letting someone truly know who
I am and my thoughts, my feelings, I'm

00:57:33.915 --> 00:57:38.595
trying to figure out a way to, to show
up, to get this person to like me, because

00:57:38.595 --> 00:57:40.634
I'm worried I am managing their emotions.

00:57:40.634 --> 00:57:43.875
I'm worried they won't like it if
I say a thing or if I do a thing.

00:57:44.565 --> 00:57:48.585
Now, that's also somebody that
projects or, or hands over their

00:57:48.585 --> 00:57:50.565
emotional caretaking to someone else.

00:57:50.955 --> 00:57:54.105
Well, you know what happens
when you use that tone with me?

00:57:54.285 --> 00:57:58.275
Or, well, I told you that I was already
upset tonight and you are the one that

00:57:58.275 --> 00:57:59.895
still wanted to have a conversation.

00:58:00.165 --> 00:58:02.025
So it's, I'm putting
that back over on you.

00:58:02.055 --> 00:58:04.665
So both of these are coming from
an emotionally immature place.

00:58:05.025 --> 00:58:11.235
I think one of the difficulties here in
particular is it can really feel like

00:58:11.625 --> 00:58:15.795
the, the relationship is changing, and
at first it might not feel like in a,

00:58:15.795 --> 00:58:19.485
in a good way when one person begins to
differentiate, when one person begins

00:58:19.485 --> 00:58:22.755
to recognize that I need to stop.

00:58:23.490 --> 00:58:27.540
Trying to manage someone else's
emotions rather than, I'm worried

00:58:27.540 --> 00:58:29.340
this person will think this thing.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.860
Then I need to be able to have the
courage to express the thing that

00:58:34.860 --> 00:58:38.250
I wanna express, and now have give
that person an opportunity to have

00:58:38.250 --> 00:58:39.810
their own emotional experience.

00:58:39.810 --> 00:58:45.270
It it, and it can be a very connecting,
intimate experience when we both can

00:58:45.270 --> 00:58:47.970
be open and honest about our thoughts,
our feelings, and our emotions.

00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:52.020
But I hope you can see why, why
it is so scary, because that is

00:58:52.020 --> 00:58:53.759
not how we survived as a kid.

00:58:54.435 --> 00:58:59.175
We, we absolutely played small or we
manage other people's emotions, or we

00:58:59.175 --> 00:59:02.055
didn't deal with our own to the child.

00:59:02.055 --> 00:59:05.775
It felt like, well, your feelings
are my responsibility or my feelings

00:59:05.775 --> 00:59:08.055
are actually your fault to the adult.

00:59:08.055 --> 00:59:10.215
Then I care deeply about your experience.

00:59:10.425 --> 00:59:12.315
But I recognize we are
two separate people.

00:59:12.315 --> 00:59:14.745
Of course, we think and feel
differently about things.

00:59:15.195 --> 00:59:19.365
So how can I support you while I'm
still honoring my own needs or I'm, I'm

00:59:19.365 --> 00:59:22.455
holding onto my own autonomy because
I promise you this is one of those

00:59:22.455 --> 00:59:26.775
things as, as a couple's therapist,
that we don't know what we don't know.

00:59:26.925 --> 00:59:31.335
This is where if I could give
someone some, some magic bean or pill

00:59:31.335 --> 00:59:34.335
that they could take and recognize
what it really felt like to be.

00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:39.290
Intimately connected with another human
and differentiated and being able to

00:59:39.290 --> 00:59:42.440
really love somebody for who they are
entirely, and have someone love you

00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:47.210
for that, then I think we would all do
everything we could to get to this place

00:59:47.210 --> 00:59:49.490
of, of authenticity and differentiation.

00:59:50.240 --> 00:59:54.470
Healthy boundaries are not walls
because it often feels like such a, a

00:59:54.470 --> 00:59:59.300
negative thing, but a healthy boundary
is a clear property line that shows

00:59:59.390 --> 01:00:01.460
where you end and where another begins.

01:00:01.910 --> 01:00:05.870
And the most connected relationships
actually have very, very clear boundaries.

01:00:06.110 --> 01:00:10.640
People set boundaries because they want
you in their life to a point because

01:00:10.640 --> 01:00:15.560
they're saying, I still want this
connection, but if you handle situations

01:00:15.560 --> 01:00:19.550
in this way or if you talk this way to
me, I can't be in this relationship.

01:00:19.550 --> 01:00:22.190
So I need to set the boundary
hoping you'll respect it so we

01:00:22.190 --> 01:00:23.420
can still find a way to connect.

01:00:24.230 --> 01:00:27.290
So if a, a partner feels anxious
and tells their spouse, you need to

01:00:27.290 --> 01:00:28.970
calm down, you're stressing me out.

01:00:29.120 --> 01:00:32.120
Break that down from managing emotions.

01:00:32.120 --> 01:00:34.045
I need you to calm down
so I'll feel better.

01:00:34.530 --> 01:00:37.350
You are stressing me out, so I need
you to stop it so I'll feel better.

01:00:37.620 --> 01:00:38.850
Instead of owning their reaction.

01:00:38.850 --> 01:00:39.450
Man, check it out.

01:00:39.450 --> 01:00:41.130
When you do this thing, I get all anxious.

01:00:41.130 --> 01:00:42.990
What, what is the story
my brain is telling me?

01:00:43.290 --> 01:00:46.980
I guess I'm feeling, I'm feeling a little
bit embarrassed because I grew up in a

01:00:46.980 --> 01:00:51.420
way that nobody, there were no performers,
there was nobody that was out there,

01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:55.410
uh, going big or being an extrovert,
it is super uncomfortable for me.

01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:59.610
Can you not do the thing that you think
is okay to do to make me feel better?

01:01:00.570 --> 01:01:03.840
Or somebody hears the, a friend is
struggling, they immediately cancel all

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:07.380
their own plans to fix the situation even
when their friend didn't ask for help.

01:01:08.250 --> 01:01:11.820
This one, it can be really difficult
because you start to notice that

01:01:11.910 --> 01:01:16.020
if I really just want to vent or
I want my partner to see me, to

01:01:16.020 --> 01:01:19.110
know me, to understand me, and
so they say, how was your day?

01:01:19.110 --> 01:01:21.540
I share it, and then they
say, oh man, I'm so sorry.

01:01:22.560 --> 01:01:23.760
It sounds right.

01:01:23.820 --> 01:01:27.330
Those are good words to say, but what
do you do with that if you're the one

01:01:27.330 --> 01:01:28.770
that wants to feel heard and understood?

01:01:29.549 --> 01:01:30.660
Tell them o okay.

01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:31.410
I appreciate that.

01:01:31.620 --> 01:01:32.549
Uh, I'm, yeah.

01:01:32.549 --> 01:01:33.210
No, that's nice.

01:01:33.210 --> 01:01:34.379
I'm glad that you are, sorry.

01:01:34.890 --> 01:01:38.040
But then do we have more
conversation from there?

01:01:38.100 --> 01:01:42.750
I alluded to the psychologist, Terry
Real, and he has a type of therapy

01:01:42.750 --> 01:01:45.299
called Relational Life Therapy,
and I've been going through the

01:01:45.299 --> 01:01:48.210
training and it's, it's so powerful.

01:01:48.600 --> 01:01:50.670
Terry Reel's work in
relational life therapy.

01:01:50.670 --> 01:01:54.000
I think I'm recognizing offers one
of the most compassionate frameworks

01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:57.149
that I've come across when it comes
to things like emotional growth.

01:01:57.330 --> 01:02:02.460
He says something that I quote so often
because it, it hits home and I want to use

01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:03.960
an all or nothing statement every time.

01:02:04.740 --> 01:02:07.589
What was adaptive in childhood
becomes maladaptive in adulthood.

01:02:07.859 --> 01:02:12.480
That simple sentence is this massive
shift from shame to self understanding

01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.390
because these patterns that we
often beat ourselves up for today,

01:02:15.420 --> 01:02:17.100
they were never bad behaviors.

01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:19.859
They actually were these
brilliant survival strategies.

01:02:20.730 --> 01:02:22.260
Let's talk about your inner child.

01:02:22.410 --> 01:02:26.340
It was the expert, strategist, picture
your inner child not as broken, not

01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:29.160
as fragile, but as wildly resourceful.

01:02:29.460 --> 01:02:33.210
You weren't just absorbing
emotional chaos or, or instability.

01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:34.590
You were adapting to it.

01:02:35.340 --> 01:02:39.060
You were finding ways to stay safe and
to stay connected and to make sense of

01:02:39.060 --> 01:02:40.440
a world that didn't always make sense.

01:02:40.780 --> 01:02:42.910
The kid that was a people pleaser.

01:02:43.330 --> 01:02:44.080
They weren't weak.

01:02:44.230 --> 01:02:46.900
They were learning to manage
danger through connection,

01:02:47.020 --> 01:02:48.340
however they needed to find it.

01:02:48.850 --> 01:02:53.230
The kid who went quiet and shut down
emotionally, they, they weren't avoidant.

01:02:53.260 --> 01:02:56.320
They were trying to survive
being emotionally overwhelmed.

01:02:56.830 --> 01:02:59.350
And what's heartbreaking,
but also beautiful, is that

01:02:59.350 --> 01:03:00.790
these adaptations worked.

01:03:01.090 --> 01:03:02.020
They kept you afloat.

01:03:02.050 --> 01:03:04.390
They got you through, and
now they're still showing up.

01:03:04.570 --> 01:03:08.320
But instead of keeping you safe, they
might be causing you to feel stuck.

01:03:08.590 --> 01:03:10.030
And that is the paradox.

01:03:10.300 --> 01:03:13.960
The strategies that saved us as kids are
often the ones that sabotage us as adults.

01:03:14.020 --> 01:03:17.410
And I think that's why emotional
maturity is not about yelling

01:03:17.410 --> 01:03:18.580
at our inner child to grow up.

01:03:18.580 --> 01:03:21.310
It's not about beating ourselves
up or shaming ourselves.

01:03:21.930 --> 01:03:26.069
It's about acknowledging how hard
that little guy worked to protect us.

01:03:26.520 --> 01:03:27.900
It's saying, Hey, hey buddy.

01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:28.680
I see what you did there.

01:03:28.680 --> 01:03:29.940
It was actually kinda genius.

01:03:30.120 --> 01:03:32.880
Now not so much, so I need
to let the big kid take over.

01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:35.880
But the irony there is, okay,
what does the big kid do?

01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.279
Because I, I'm just now
figuring this thing out.

01:03:39.150 --> 01:03:42.299
So I think there are these common
childhood survival skills and they

01:03:42.299 --> 01:03:44.040
do become these adult roadblocks.

01:03:44.190 --> 01:03:48.090
Let me address some of these common
childhood adaptations that really do

01:03:48.090 --> 01:03:49.500
turn into struggles and relationships.

01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:52.620
And it's not, again, so that we can judge
'em, but we want to, we wanna honor 'em,

01:03:52.650 --> 01:03:55.470
we wanna understand 'em, and we wanna
learn new ways to show up in the present.

01:03:55.620 --> 01:03:58.290
And these are ones I haven't
covered up to this point.

01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:00.990
So let's talk about
hypervigilance as a kid.

01:04:00.990 --> 01:04:04.049
Hypervigilance meant scanning the
emotional environment, constantly

01:04:04.080 --> 01:04:06.870
trying to read the room, reading
facial expressions, tone of voice,

01:04:06.870 --> 01:04:10.230
body language, trying to predict when
the next emotional shift would hit.

01:04:10.680 --> 01:04:14.670
And that is how so many kids survive in
homes where moods are unpredictable, or

01:04:14.670 --> 01:04:16.470
where conflict is constantly bubbling.

01:04:16.470 --> 01:04:16.710
Just.

01:04:17.145 --> 01:04:19.605
Below the surface or right on the surface.

01:04:20.205 --> 01:04:23.475
This is the origin story of so many
people that are highly sensitive.

01:04:23.805 --> 01:04:26.715
I've done episodes on highly
sensitive person or HSP.

01:04:26.805 --> 01:04:27.615
Here's how it shows up.

01:04:27.615 --> 01:04:31.904
Now, as an adult, you walk into a room and
immediately you can feel tension, and even

01:04:31.904 --> 01:04:35.025
if nobody has said a word, you're on high
alert even when there's no real danger.

01:04:35.445 --> 01:04:39.015
Now your your partner size and you're
already wondering, okay, what did

01:04:39.015 --> 01:04:42.404
I do wrong before they've even said
a word and it, it is exhausting.

01:04:42.465 --> 01:04:43.815
It's emotionally overwhelming.

01:04:43.815 --> 01:04:47.445
You burn a lot of emotional calories
and mental energy, and it can create

01:04:47.445 --> 01:04:52.755
anxiety and relationships where calm may
actually reside, but you can't trust it.

01:04:52.785 --> 01:04:55.515
How could you, because that
was your adaptation as a kid.

01:04:56.445 --> 01:04:59.055
One of the best things here
is, as I go back to, I'm not

01:04:59.055 --> 01:05:00.165
saying don't trust your gut.

01:05:00.645 --> 01:05:05.355
I've had a, an amazing session or two with
a very highly sensitive client of mine and

01:05:05.355 --> 01:05:09.165
we were talking about this and, and she
said, it sounds to me like you're saying

01:05:09.165 --> 01:05:11.775
that, that this is all just my immaturity.

01:05:12.194 --> 01:05:16.725
And, and it's not that that actually
is, I'm joking a little bit here,

01:05:16.725 --> 01:05:19.875
but that is a, that is an immature
comment about immaturity because that's

01:05:19.875 --> 01:05:23.504
a black or white statement versus
having some curiosity about it because

01:05:23.504 --> 01:05:26.265
it's actually your hyper vigilance.

01:05:26.415 --> 01:05:32.265
It is part of that HSP and now use that
to then inform you and guide you and

01:05:32.265 --> 01:05:36.134
yes, you, you may be very hypervigilant
now as an adult and there are times

01:05:36.134 --> 01:05:40.515
where that might be, you may say, I
feel this way, therefore it is, but

01:05:40.515 --> 01:05:45.285
then having the courage and the maturity
to be able to express that, to then

01:05:45.314 --> 01:05:49.004
have conversations, to recognize that
there will be times where, yeah, you

01:05:49.004 --> 01:05:50.145
are reading the room really well.

01:05:50.294 --> 01:05:53.984
There might be times where that
sense or that feeling of overwhelm is

01:05:53.984 --> 01:05:58.395
your, your emotional imprint that has
been there since childhood that is

01:05:58.395 --> 01:05:59.924
saying, Hey, here's an opportunity.

01:05:59.924 --> 01:06:01.395
We probably need to be more aware.

01:06:01.515 --> 01:06:03.524
So I will be, I will be more aware.

01:06:04.290 --> 01:06:05.580
Here's what I haven't talked about a lot.

01:06:05.640 --> 01:06:06.689
Emotional containment.

01:06:07.049 --> 01:06:11.459
It's that childhood message that so
many of us got of, don't be too much.

01:06:11.790 --> 01:06:12.660
Don't rock the boat.

01:06:13.229 --> 01:06:15.419
It's telling you that your
emotions aren't safe here.

01:06:16.169 --> 01:06:19.950
So you learn to stuff your
emotions down, hide your needs.

01:06:20.165 --> 01:06:24.995
And just stay very easy to be
around, very agreeable, and this

01:06:24.995 --> 01:06:26.705
might even be a little bit you.

01:06:26.705 --> 01:06:29.645
You might show a bit of a performance
every now and again, but it's to let

01:06:29.645 --> 01:06:31.415
everybody know everything's okay.

01:06:31.865 --> 01:06:37.205
You're easy in the relationship, but you
often find yourself as having been lost

01:06:37.265 --> 01:06:39.125
as a kid in the relationship as well.

01:06:39.455 --> 01:06:41.435
Here's how it starts
to show up as an adult.

01:06:42.005 --> 01:06:45.725
I'm good even if you're not, because
expressing your needs, you feel

01:06:45.725 --> 01:06:46.955
like you are burdening someone.

01:06:47.585 --> 01:06:51.965
You go along with plans or you stay silent
during conflict because you're afraid that

01:06:52.025 --> 01:06:56.615
being honest is gonna make you unlovable
and you are again, you, you're too much.

01:06:56.975 --> 01:07:01.625
Here's the thing though, being agreeable
is not the same as being known.

01:07:02.195 --> 01:07:05.315
Emotional containment protected
your relationships from short

01:07:05.315 --> 01:07:10.085
term friction, but it is at the
cost of longer term intimacy with

01:07:10.370 --> 01:07:12.065
a, a partner, a true connection.

01:07:12.125 --> 01:07:16.895
Next up is perfectionism, and I hope
you can see at this point we could

01:07:16.895 --> 01:07:21.545
go on an entire episode on each
one of these adaptive strategies

01:07:21.545 --> 01:07:23.045
that have now become maladaptive.

01:07:23.495 --> 01:07:27.635
Because perfectionism is something that, I
think it's one of those that people don't

01:07:27.635 --> 01:07:31.685
even recognize what that looks like, and
they, they, they will often say, okay,

01:07:31.685 --> 01:07:34.805
no, I don't struggle from perfectionism
because I'm obviously not perfect, but

01:07:34.805 --> 01:07:39.395
it's, it's that desire to become perfect
or belief that there is something that

01:07:39.395 --> 01:07:43.775
I can achieve, that if I can just get
there and be somewhat perfect, then

01:07:43.835 --> 01:07:45.275
all of my problems will disappear.

01:07:45.725 --> 01:07:48.875
Because where that comes from is, in
childhood perfectionism was typically

01:07:48.875 --> 01:07:50.705
about staying one step ahead of criticism.

01:07:51.125 --> 01:07:54.005
If you can be flawless, then
maybe you would be safe.

01:07:54.035 --> 01:07:56.405
Maybe you would earn love or
you would avoid punishment or

01:07:56.405 --> 01:07:58.415
finally feel like you are enough.

01:07:58.925 --> 01:08:03.305
One of the areas of therapy that I'm doing
more exploration with is internal family

01:08:03.305 --> 01:08:08.375
systems, and one of the first concepts
that I learned about at a training was.

01:08:08.910 --> 01:08:10.620
And the concept there is beautiful.

01:08:10.620 --> 01:08:12.060
You are a sum of all of your parts.

01:08:12.060 --> 01:08:16.080
When you say, part of me feels this way,
part of me feels that way, you are not

01:08:16.529 --> 01:08:18.599
having a dissociative identity disorder.

01:08:18.599 --> 01:08:22.170
It's the part of you that that maybe
felt unlovable or the part of you that

01:08:22.170 --> 01:08:24.689
was trying to protect another emotion.

01:08:25.260 --> 01:08:29.939
And I remember at this training,
the trainer, the therapist said that

01:08:29.970 --> 01:08:33.120
they had worked with someone who
was struggling with perfectionism.

01:08:33.450 --> 01:08:37.620
And when they really dug deep, there
was a part of them that as a child,

01:08:37.769 --> 01:08:39.450
their mom and dad had both told them.

01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:43.500
And it's funny, this was a bad word in my
home growing up, but how stupid they were.

01:08:43.620 --> 01:08:46.979
It was the S word, but they were just
continually told how stupid they were.

01:08:46.979 --> 01:08:52.229
So at some point that the poor
inner child, that piece became

01:08:52.229 --> 01:08:56.490
exiled and here came this
protector, which was perfectionism.

01:08:56.490 --> 01:09:00.149
So if I can be perfect, I will
never be called stupid again.

01:09:00.450 --> 01:09:03.779
But that is this endless
pursuit of perfectionism.

01:09:04.394 --> 01:09:07.394
So that I will not have to go
through what that felt like as a

01:09:07.394 --> 01:09:09.580
kid to be told that you're stupid.

01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:12.480
So what does this look like in adults?

01:09:12.480 --> 01:09:15.690
It often will even be things like
procrastination because you'll

01:09:15.690 --> 01:09:19.440
procrastinate on projects because if
it's not perfect, it's not worth doing.

01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:24.690
Or you'll hang on to a project and
keep going over it and over it.

01:09:24.750 --> 01:09:27.720
Where someone that you,
maybe someone close to you is

01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:29.820
saying, Hey, just turn it in.

01:09:29.850 --> 01:09:31.950
It's not worth your mental
health at this point.

01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:36.480
But you tie your worth often to your
performance, feeling like a failure

01:09:36.480 --> 01:09:39.510
if you're not overachieving or if
you're not impressing everybody.

01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:43.140
And it is a trap because
perfectionism isn't love.

01:09:43.290 --> 01:09:47.640
Perfectionism is an armor and it
keeps people from seeing the messy,

01:09:47.670 --> 01:09:51.450
but the real, the real authentic
or lovable you that's underneath.

01:09:51.900 --> 01:09:56.220
And it is often from this place of,
and it is from this place of, I was

01:09:56.220 --> 01:09:57.420
about to say emotional immaturity.

01:09:57.420 --> 01:09:57.930
What about that?

01:09:57.930 --> 01:10:01.050
We are literally talking about that
on the podcast today, but emotionally

01:10:01.050 --> 01:10:04.680
immature because I'm afraid to
be open and vulnerable and allow

01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:07.140
people to see the messy parts of me.

01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:08.880
Let's talk about control.

01:10:09.210 --> 01:10:12.240
When your childhood world
felt unpredictable or unsafe,

01:10:12.690 --> 01:10:14.190
control became the anchor.

01:10:14.250 --> 01:10:15.720
What can I control?

01:10:16.290 --> 01:10:20.190
So you create order where there was
chaos, whether that was controlling

01:10:20.190 --> 01:10:22.200
your environment, controlling your body.

01:10:22.260 --> 01:10:24.810
This is where a lot of people that
struggle with things like disordered

01:10:24.810 --> 01:10:28.710
eating may come from, or controlling
your emotions and learning how

01:10:28.710 --> 01:10:30.420
to just stuff them emotions.

01:10:30.420 --> 01:10:35.430
You are not welcome here and and adults,
you may find yourself micromanaging

01:10:35.430 --> 01:10:40.680
your partner or your kids because
unpredictability is uncomfortable and

01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:43.320
it makes you feel panic, not playful.

01:10:43.860 --> 01:10:47.730
So you may struggle to delegate because
it's easier for you to take care of

01:10:47.730 --> 01:10:50.460
it, or you may struggle to relax.

01:10:50.460 --> 01:10:55.200
Because if you relax, then someone might
think that you don't care or that you

01:10:55.200 --> 01:10:57.150
are lazy or they'll be very judgmental.

01:10:57.150 --> 01:11:01.980
Or you just need to keep doing things
so that you can keep the house in order.

01:11:01.980 --> 01:11:06.360
So you can make sure that the yard is in
order or your car is in order, or your

01:11:06.360 --> 01:11:08.010
clothes are in order, or whatever that is.

01:11:08.010 --> 01:11:08.550
'cause it will.

01:11:08.850 --> 01:11:12.540
Help you feel like you have some
semblance of control, and you're

01:11:12.540 --> 01:11:15.120
also worried that if I delegate,
then somebody else won't do it.

01:11:15.120 --> 01:11:15.540
Right?

01:11:15.930 --> 01:11:18.150
And now we're back to that all or
nothing, black or white thinking

01:11:18.150 --> 01:11:19.530
that there's a right way to do it.

01:11:19.740 --> 01:11:21.030
This is the way you vacuum.

01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:22.260
This is the way you iron.

01:11:22.320 --> 01:11:26.700
This is the way that you put
food on a plate because control

01:11:26.820 --> 01:11:28.590
creates this illusion of safety.

01:11:28.860 --> 01:11:32.340
But it will drive disconnection,
it will drive anxiety.

01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:36.540
It can keep you from leaning into
vulnerability, from spontaneity or from

01:11:36.540 --> 01:11:38.790
shared responsibility, shared experiences.

01:11:39.554 --> 01:11:44.325
Because to really let go of this
control is putting yourself in

01:11:44.325 --> 01:11:47.985
the hands of someone else, and
then there will be discomfort,

01:11:48.195 --> 01:11:49.695
and that takes a lot of courage.

01:11:50.445 --> 01:11:53.835
Let's talk about integration, because
we're not trying to erase these

01:11:53.835 --> 01:11:55.365
characteristics or these traits.

01:11:55.755 --> 01:11:58.575
The goal is not to get
rid of these parts of you.

01:11:58.964 --> 01:12:00.224
It is to integrate them.

01:12:00.315 --> 01:12:03.735
It's to recognize this wisdom,
this internal wisdom in their

01:12:03.735 --> 01:12:07.755
origin, and then the limits though
of their usefulness in adulthood.

01:12:07.755 --> 01:12:10.815
So when you feel yourself controlling
or people pleasing or shutting

01:12:10.815 --> 01:12:16.514
down or chasing perfection, then
you can say, I, this makes sense.

01:12:16.845 --> 01:12:18.555
Thank you inner child.

01:12:18.615 --> 01:12:19.545
Thank you body.

01:12:19.905 --> 01:12:24.675
This is how I kept myself safe,
but I'm not that scared kid anymore

01:12:24.705 --> 01:12:28.185
or I'm noticing that that scared
kid is still on board and I'm

01:12:28.185 --> 01:12:29.805
gonna acknowledge that scared kid.

01:12:30.165 --> 01:12:33.885
I'm allowed to start trying things
different now because there isn't

01:12:34.095 --> 01:12:38.145
a necessarily a wrong or right
way to do my life, and I need to

01:12:38.145 --> 01:12:42.045
start having the courage to do and
invite all of these feelings, all

01:12:42.045 --> 01:12:43.395
these things to come along with me.

01:12:44.055 --> 01:12:45.645
That is emotional maturity.

01:12:46.065 --> 01:12:48.645
That is this part the, I think
I started a little while ago

01:12:48.645 --> 01:12:49.995
talking about re-parenting.

01:12:50.265 --> 01:12:53.445
That's this path where you go
from, I was doing this to survive,

01:12:53.835 --> 01:12:58.755
to now I am doing this to thrive
and to live boundary setting.

01:12:58.965 --> 01:13:02.265
I think this is something that needs
to be talked about as well, and.

01:13:02.835 --> 01:13:05.565
The boundary versus the
ultimatum becomes important.

01:13:05.835 --> 01:13:09.525
We're not talking about ultimatums that
are in disguise because setting healthy

01:13:09.525 --> 01:13:12.885
boundaries is one of the clearest signs
of emotional maturity, but it, I think

01:13:12.885 --> 01:13:14.235
it's also one of the most misunderstood.

01:13:14.750 --> 01:13:16.215
A, A boundary is a me thing.

01:13:16.545 --> 01:13:18.075
It's not about controlling
the other person.

01:13:18.075 --> 01:13:22.005
It's about taking responsibility for
what you will do to take care of your

01:13:22.005 --> 01:13:23.535
emotional and physical wellbeing.

01:13:23.775 --> 01:13:25.995
So what is that difference
between a boundary and ultimatum?

01:13:26.265 --> 01:13:29.985
A boundary says if you continue
yelling, I am going to leave the room

01:13:29.985 --> 01:13:31.575
essentially to take care of myself.

01:13:31.695 --> 01:13:36.255
An ultimatum says, you need to stop
yelling, and you can't keep doing

01:13:36.255 --> 01:13:40.275
this because to the emotionally
immature, they see that as a challenge.

01:13:40.605 --> 01:13:41.475
They're saying, oh, really?

01:13:41.595 --> 01:13:41.895
I do.

01:13:41.895 --> 01:13:44.625
I, well, that's, now I know
that button works with you.

01:13:45.255 --> 01:13:48.435
So hopefully you can see
the shift boundaries done.

01:13:48.974 --> 01:13:52.245
I wanna say right, not right and
wrong, but a, a healthy boundary

01:13:52.245 --> 01:13:53.655
is grounded in self-respect.

01:13:53.715 --> 01:13:57.434
They're proactive, they're not reactive,
and they're about protecting your peace,

01:13:57.434 --> 01:13:59.235
not manipulating somebody else's behavior.

01:13:59.955 --> 01:14:02.835
So let's say that somebody says, Hey,
I need to talk about something right

01:14:02.835 --> 01:14:07.394
now, it's okay for you to say if
we need to talk about it right now.

01:14:07.570 --> 01:14:11.830
I'm not really in a good position,
so I'm unable to, but I care about

01:14:11.830 --> 01:14:14.230
you and let's find a better time.

01:14:15.010 --> 01:14:17.890
That can be a boundary around
timing, about emotional availability.

01:14:18.340 --> 01:14:21.160
There are people that have
such a hard time saying no.

01:14:21.220 --> 01:14:22.150
That can be a boundary.

01:14:22.270 --> 01:14:26.680
If somebody has already committed to
a quiet weekend, but now they've been

01:14:26.740 --> 01:14:31.360
invited to do something last minute and
maybe spontaneity is not one of their

01:14:31.360 --> 01:14:36.160
values, and so they want this downtime,
then it takes a lot of courage to say, if

01:14:36.160 --> 01:14:39.970
to myself, a personal boundary, if I have
already committed to a quiet weekend, then

01:14:39.970 --> 01:14:44.110
I am gonna have to pass on the invite,
even if I find myself or notice myself

01:14:44.110 --> 01:14:45.760
worrying what that other person may think.

01:14:46.330 --> 01:14:48.490
That could be looked at as a
boundary around your energy.

01:14:48.490 --> 01:14:50.110
It's not a rejection of the other person.

01:14:50.710 --> 01:14:54.460
Boundaries say things like, this is what I
need in order to show up well in my life.

01:14:54.610 --> 01:14:58.090
And spoiler, and this is
something for a future episode,

01:14:58.780 --> 01:15:00.610
people who are used to you are.

01:15:01.320 --> 01:15:02.580
Not having boundaries.

01:15:02.670 --> 01:15:05.250
Might not love them at
first, and that's okay.

01:15:05.820 --> 01:15:07.590
You are not building walls.

01:15:07.590 --> 01:15:10.830
You're building this foundation
for real respectful connection.

01:15:10.889 --> 01:15:15.269
Again, you're doing it so that you can
have connection with someone, but that

01:15:15.269 --> 01:15:19.470
shows you that if they don't respect
the boundary, then that is a them thing.

01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:23.940
And now you may have to make a decision
that this isn't a healthy relationship.

01:15:24.150 --> 01:15:30.150
So I think we can wrap today's episode
up by, by talking about what growth or

01:15:30.150 --> 01:15:32.130
emotional maturity actually feels like.

01:15:32.130 --> 01:15:35.280
And a spoiler here, it's, it
feels awkward, which makes it

01:15:35.280 --> 01:15:36.960
seem a little bit odd or weird.

01:15:37.769 --> 01:15:40.950
But don't be afraid of the unknown.

01:15:42.014 --> 01:15:46.035
Remember, hopefully by now, you
definitely have recognized you didn't

01:15:46.035 --> 01:15:49.875
know what you didn't know, and now
you're learning some new things and some

01:15:49.875 --> 01:15:53.804
of it is gonna resonate and land and
other parts of it you may disagree with.

01:15:53.804 --> 01:15:54.945
And that's, that's okay.

01:15:55.575 --> 01:15:59.290
I wanna give you three or four
examples of I. Situations and people,

01:15:59.320 --> 01:16:02.290
I've changed the names that have
happened in the last couple of weeks

01:16:02.290 --> 01:16:06.460
as people in my office have woken up
to their own emotional immaturity and

01:16:06.460 --> 01:16:08.020
have become more emotionally mature.

01:16:08.680 --> 01:16:10.180
We'll call the first person Stacy.

01:16:10.180 --> 01:16:11.440
Stacy was a fixer.

01:16:11.440 --> 01:16:14.680
She would fix everybody's problems
and do so Immediately we'd identified.

01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:16.300
That's how she felt useful growing up.

01:16:16.300 --> 01:16:19.660
That was her adaptive coping
mechanism, which is maladaptive now

01:16:19.660 --> 01:16:23.320
as an adult because people weren't
asking her to fix their issues.

01:16:23.650 --> 01:16:26.680
Especially her husband, when her
husband would share something very,

01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:29.380
very vulnerable and she would say,
here's what I think you should do.

01:16:29.620 --> 01:16:30.430
He would pull back.

01:16:30.430 --> 01:16:34.930
This had happened over a couple of decades
as we communicated in couples therapy.

01:16:34.990 --> 01:16:36.970
She would acknowledge that's
what she wanted to do.

01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:41.020
She would pause and often apologize
and then ask, Hey, what are, what

01:16:41.020 --> 01:16:41.980
are you looking for right now?

01:16:41.980 --> 01:16:42.970
And how can I show up for you?

01:16:43.540 --> 01:16:48.400
Do you want me to just sit with you
or are you looking for solutions

01:16:48.400 --> 01:16:50.110
or for me to fix your problems?

01:16:50.110 --> 01:16:53.560
And the reason I chuckle is because she
usually could answer that one herself.

01:16:53.590 --> 01:16:57.910
Although once her husband felt heard,
he was definitely open to her feedback.

01:16:58.740 --> 01:17:04.050
And it was awkward, but it also
connected them, or we'll call him Matt.

01:17:04.080 --> 01:17:07.470
Matt had always, always used humor to
deflect some of the one-on-one sessions

01:17:07.470 --> 01:17:11.100
I would have with Matt, felt like
we were just exchanging comedy bits.

01:17:11.100 --> 01:17:15.300
But you could see underneath the surface
of that, and I would often joke that if

01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:18.450
people were listening in, they would think
that we were speaking in riddles or code,

01:17:18.810 --> 01:17:22.260
but humor had become his primary emotion.

01:17:22.320 --> 01:17:26.160
Those around him had started to pull
away from him, and he had finally had

01:17:26.160 --> 01:17:31.020
someone very close to him say that they
felt like he had been a bit distant.

01:17:31.020 --> 01:17:32.970
That was one of the things that
had brought him into therapy.

01:17:33.510 --> 01:17:37.260
And so now instead of joking it off,
he, it was sharing an experience

01:17:37.260 --> 01:17:40.740
with me where he had opened up and
said, honestly, I have realized

01:17:40.740 --> 01:17:43.020
I, I hide, I hide behind my humor.

01:17:43.470 --> 01:17:47.880
And when he did that, he said it
was this proverbial record scratch

01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:51.180
moment at a party that he was at
where he felt like everybody went

01:17:51.180 --> 01:17:54.060
quiet and everything slowed down.

01:17:54.390 --> 01:17:56.820
But as awkward as it felt, he said.

01:17:57.645 --> 01:17:58.605
The room was quiet.

01:17:58.665 --> 01:18:00.465
Then he said it almost
felt like it got warm.

01:18:01.155 --> 01:18:04.485
Nobody laughed and everybody
leaned in and he said he felt

01:18:04.485 --> 01:18:05.805
like he was in a real life movie.

01:18:06.555 --> 01:18:11.685
Kara spent years saying yes to everything
out of fear that she wouldn't be liked,

01:18:11.775 --> 01:18:16.965
even to the point where her husband would
say, I don't even believe you when you

01:18:16.965 --> 01:18:20.685
say that you are that agreeable, or that
you are okay with whatever it is that

01:18:20.685 --> 01:18:22.185
I wanna do, or what the kids wanna do.

01:18:22.275 --> 01:18:25.125
And it started to drive a real
wedge in the relationship.

01:18:25.815 --> 01:18:29.265
So her sister had reached out to her and
asked if she could host Thanksgiving.

01:18:29.655 --> 01:18:34.065
She wanted to say yes so bad, but
she also knew that they already

01:18:34.065 --> 01:18:35.385
had plans for Thanksgiving.

01:18:35.445 --> 01:18:39.075
She said that when she finally responded
to her sister, her hands were shaking.

01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:43.500
She said that she couldn't host
Thanksgiving, and she said it.

01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:45.060
It wasn't a Disney moment.

01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:48.030
It wasn't a moment where her
sister said, thank you so much.

01:18:48.090 --> 01:18:49.020
I'm so proud of you.

01:18:49.020 --> 01:18:49.890
You're so brave.

01:18:50.190 --> 01:18:50.370
No.

01:18:50.370 --> 01:18:51.720
Her sister said, oh, great.

01:18:51.780 --> 01:18:52.800
Now what am I supposed to do?

01:18:53.130 --> 01:18:58.200
Her sister was clearly disappointed,
but Kara sat in the silence and she

01:18:58.200 --> 01:19:01.440
said that was the area where in the
past if there was silence, she would

01:19:01.440 --> 01:19:02.940
fill it with a, I will take care of it.

01:19:02.970 --> 01:19:03.600
I will do it.

01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:04.380
You are right.

01:19:04.410 --> 01:19:05.160
I am wrong.

01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:11.070
But she held that silence and kept
her boundary, and she and her husband,

01:19:11.070 --> 01:19:12.645
I. Grew closer because of that.

01:19:13.365 --> 01:19:17.385
And finally, Eric, he used to
go silent anytime his partner

01:19:17.385 --> 01:19:18.795
brought up any concern.

01:19:19.305 --> 01:19:24.105
But one night he just said, honestly,
when I am going silent like this, it's

01:19:24.105 --> 01:19:28.215
because I don't know what to say, but I
really want to understand you and I stop

01:19:28.635 --> 01:19:32.895
paying attention to you because I'm so
worried about saying the wrong thing.

01:19:33.345 --> 01:19:37.335
And he identified that he realized
there isn't necessarily a wrong

01:19:37.335 --> 01:19:41.145
thing, I just need to be able to
express the thing that I am thinking.

01:19:41.265 --> 01:19:43.395
He started asking for a few
minutes to collect his thoughts.

01:19:43.395 --> 01:19:46.305
And when that had previously been
a way for him to get out of a

01:19:46.305 --> 01:19:50.175
conversation altogether, now he
needed to go back to the conversation

01:19:50.205 --> 01:19:51.735
and he did and he didn't flee.

01:19:51.975 --> 01:19:52.875
And that was new.

01:19:53.684 --> 01:19:56.745
Growth takes time, and it is not linear.

01:19:56.955 --> 01:20:00.945
It isn't just a simple checklist of
1, 2, 3, 4, A, B, C, D, although I'm

01:20:00.945 --> 01:20:02.775
literally about to give you four steps.

01:20:02.865 --> 01:20:04.875
These steps are not exactly linear.

01:20:04.875 --> 01:20:06.375
You'll go back and forth between them.

01:20:06.825 --> 01:20:10.004
In Rick Hansen's book, Buddhist Brain,
he lays out four stages of learning.

01:20:10.035 --> 01:20:14.504
He calls them unconscious incompetence,
and that's what I call the, you

01:20:14.504 --> 01:20:15.945
don't know what you don't know.

01:20:16.245 --> 01:20:19.575
He said, you don't even know what you're
doing, and you don't even know what

01:20:19.575 --> 01:20:23.445
you're doing isn't working because you
don't know unconscious incompetence.

01:20:24.014 --> 01:20:27.285
The second step is conscious
incompetence, which, so now you're

01:20:27.285 --> 01:20:29.264
conscious of your incompetence.

01:20:29.264 --> 01:20:32.804
You realize it's not working,
but you keep doing it anyway.

01:20:33.464 --> 01:20:34.304
You try.

01:20:34.815 --> 01:20:35.745
It's not working.

01:20:35.775 --> 01:20:38.745
You're aware that you could be doing
something different, but you continue

01:20:38.745 --> 01:20:42.375
to do the thing that is not working,
and this is the hardest stage, and

01:20:42.375 --> 01:20:45.674
it's most likely the stage that
people will stay in the longest.

01:20:46.094 --> 01:20:50.054
But you'll start to dip your
toe over into stage three,

01:20:50.054 --> 01:20:52.094
which is conscious competence.

01:20:52.485 --> 01:20:55.875
Now you're aware and you are
starting to become competent.

01:20:55.905 --> 01:20:59.594
You start doing it differently,
but it does take work effort,

01:21:00.105 --> 01:21:04.844
consistency, forgiveness, grace to
yourself when you may not remember

01:21:04.934 --> 01:21:08.655
what you are gonna do, what you're
supposed to do in those situations.

01:21:09.134 --> 01:21:12.915
So it takes work and it's gonna
feel clunky, and you'll probably dip

01:21:12.915 --> 01:21:18.735
between that two and three conscious
incompetence and conscious competence

01:21:19.394 --> 01:21:20.955
back and forth for quite a while.

01:21:21.014 --> 01:21:24.615
And then remembering that unconscious
incompetence, the stuff I don't even

01:21:24.615 --> 01:21:27.224
know that I don't know is still there
because I don't know what they are.

01:21:27.990 --> 01:21:29.309
Because I don't know what it is.

01:21:29.700 --> 01:21:33.389
And finally, you move into his
fourth stage of enlightenment or

01:21:33.389 --> 01:21:35.790
growth, unconscious competence.

01:21:36.360 --> 01:21:37.290
You're just doing it.

01:21:37.474 --> 01:21:38.519
It is who you are.

01:21:38.519 --> 01:21:39.809
You have become, you are.

01:21:39.809 --> 01:21:41.730
It is just part of your doing and being.

01:21:42.450 --> 01:21:43.740
This path takes time.

01:21:44.160 --> 01:21:47.940
But like what Rick Hanson says, it's
a lot of little moments of practice

01:21:47.940 --> 01:21:51.330
will replace the poisons of suffering
with happiness, love, and wisdom.

01:21:51.690 --> 01:21:55.019
Each time that you show up differently,
you're literally rewiring your

01:21:55.019 --> 01:21:58.769
brain, the good old concept of
neuroplasticity, and you're becoming

01:21:58.769 --> 01:22:01.620
the adult that your inner child
always needed and hoped you would be.

01:22:01.710 --> 01:22:03.510
And that isn't just growth.

01:22:03.540 --> 01:22:05.099
That's actually healing as well.

01:22:05.460 --> 01:22:10.230
You're healing your own trauma,
have grace for the journey.

01:22:10.440 --> 01:22:14.880
As you continue to explore the concepts
of emotional maturity and you're

01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:18.600
recognizing and naming the places where
you might be emotionally immature or even

01:22:18.600 --> 01:22:22.050
those around you, I want to emphasize
something really, really crucial.

01:22:22.050 --> 01:22:23.670
The goal is progress.

01:22:23.700 --> 01:22:24.510
It's not perfection.

01:22:25.045 --> 01:22:28.200
If you think that you will just
figure this out overnight, it's

01:22:28.200 --> 01:22:30.810
actually immature because that
is the black or white thinking.

01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:35.220
The most emotionally immature belief
you could possibly hold is that you'll

01:22:35.220 --> 01:22:37.560
never be emotionally immature Again.

01:22:38.070 --> 01:22:40.080
It's like thinking that once
you climb outta one hole,

01:22:40.080 --> 01:22:41.280
you'll never fall into another.

01:22:41.940 --> 01:22:46.770
Life just doesn't work that way, but
now you're gonna know that, do I have

01:22:46.770 --> 01:22:48.480
the right tool when I'm in that hole?

01:22:48.990 --> 01:22:51.840
Because that will be the first time
that you'll actually be in that hole.

01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:53.550
In that very moment.

01:22:53.910 --> 01:22:57.120
So there will still be these new
variables, but you'll start to

01:22:57.120 --> 01:22:58.950
have confidence in how you show up.

01:22:59.430 --> 01:23:01.500
The emotionally mature person
isn't somebody who never

01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:03.150
reacts from their inner child.

01:23:03.330 --> 01:23:06.330
It's somebody who can recognize
when they've fallen back down into

01:23:06.330 --> 01:23:09.960
this hole and they know now how
to put down the shovel and reach

01:23:09.960 --> 01:23:12.720
for the ladder, and it's somebody
who can say, okay, check that out.

01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:13.349
There I go again.

01:23:13.410 --> 01:23:17.400
I'm mind reading what my partner is
thinking, or, oh, I am noticing my magical

01:23:17.400 --> 01:23:22.140
thinking as I look at that pile of mail
once again, because I have been better

01:23:22.140 --> 01:23:26.250
about opening my own mail, but I know
that there's gonna be a time where I'm,

01:23:26.250 --> 01:23:28.260
my, my brain is gonna say, okay, check.

01:23:28.290 --> 01:23:28.620
Got it.

01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:30.690
I open my mail now until I don't.

01:23:31.080 --> 01:23:33.480
I'm gonna have to be very, very
consistent and intentional about

01:23:33.480 --> 01:23:38.700
that, or people recognizing a lot
in my office of, oh, I'm actually

01:23:38.700 --> 01:23:42.300
realizing I'm, I'm seeking external
validation, or, I need you to know this

01:23:42.300 --> 01:23:43.530
because that'll make me feel better.

01:23:43.980 --> 01:23:47.910
Your inner child deserves a tremendous
amount of grace and love and

01:23:47.910 --> 01:23:50.370
kindness and support and empathy.

01:23:51.150 --> 01:23:54.120
Those adaptive strategies from everything
from black and white thinking to

01:23:54.120 --> 01:23:56.940
mind reading, to external validation
seeking, were not character flaws.

01:23:57.210 --> 01:24:00.480
They were brilliant survival mechanisms
that got you to where you are today.

01:24:00.480 --> 01:24:02.070
Listening to the podcast right now.

01:24:02.250 --> 01:24:06.000
And that child, that inner child,
that part of you deserves the standing

01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:07.650
ovation, actually, not criticism.

01:24:08.100 --> 01:24:08.550
Thank you.

01:24:08.700 --> 01:24:09.480
You did great.

01:24:10.170 --> 01:24:13.350
So the journey of emotional maturity
is more about expanding your

01:24:13.350 --> 01:24:15.420
repertoire, not rejecting your past.

01:24:15.420 --> 01:24:15.990
It happened.

01:24:16.380 --> 01:24:18.690
It's about having more choices
now in how you respond.

01:24:19.080 --> 01:24:22.740
Really thinking the past because
that's what got you here.

01:24:23.490 --> 01:24:25.950
And it's not about eliminating
all of your childhood responses.

01:24:25.950 --> 01:24:28.500
Some days you'll gracefully climb
the ladder outta the hole, and other

01:24:28.500 --> 01:24:30.960
days you'll find yourself digging
and you didn't even realize you were.

01:24:31.620 --> 01:24:32.700
And that is not failure.

01:24:32.760 --> 01:24:33.660
That's being a human.

01:24:34.230 --> 01:24:36.900
What matters isn't that
you never fall into holes.

01:24:36.900 --> 01:24:40.020
What matters is that you'll increasingly
recognize when you're in one,

01:24:40.080 --> 01:24:42.600
you'll have compassion for yourself
when you reach for the shovel out

01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:47.850
of habit and gently, persistently
practice using that awkward ladder.

01:24:47.910 --> 01:24:50.700
Sometimes it might be a rope ladder,
and those are really hard to climb.

01:24:51.510 --> 01:24:54.300
Remember, your maturity isn't
measured by never making mistakes.

01:24:54.330 --> 01:24:56.370
It's measured by how
you respond when you do.

01:24:57.000 --> 01:24:58.650
Can you offer the same
compassion you would offer a

01:24:58.650 --> 01:24:59.820
child learning something new?

01:24:59.880 --> 01:25:01.050
That would be really helpful.

01:25:01.350 --> 01:25:04.260
Can you celebrate small steps rather
than demanding instant perfection?

01:25:04.650 --> 01:25:07.980
That's more of a true mark of
emotional maturity, not an absence

01:25:07.980 --> 01:25:11.610
of childlike moments, but a growing
capacity for awareness and choice and

01:25:11.610 --> 01:25:12.900
self-compassion in the face of them.

01:25:13.140 --> 01:25:17.400
So as we park today, I invite you to
put down the shovel of perfectionism.

01:25:17.400 --> 01:25:18.840
Pick up a ladder of self-acceptance.

01:25:18.840 --> 01:25:22.530
Your inner child's been working so hard
to protect you, so now your adult self

01:25:22.530 --> 01:25:24.390
can take their hand gently, show 'em.

01:25:24.630 --> 01:25:27.780
There's a whole world outside of that
hole, and that's a world where you can

01:25:27.780 --> 01:25:32.220
both actually be vulnerable and safe and
imperfect and worthy, and always growing

01:25:32.310 --> 01:25:34.350
and always enough, exactly as you are.

01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:35.670
Thanks for joining me.

01:25:35.760 --> 01:25:36.810
I'd love to hear your feedback.

01:25:36.810 --> 01:25:38.160
Share this with somebody
if you think it'll help.

01:25:38.460 --> 01:25:40.800
Taking us out, per usual is
the wonderful, the talented.

01:25:41.140 --> 01:25:42.460
Aurora Florence with her song.

01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:43.240
It's wonderful.

01:25:43.660 --> 01:25:46.060
Have a great week and we'll see
you next time on the Virtual Catch.

01:25:46.060 --> 01:25:52.210
Compress Motions, flying Past,
heads Out the Other and the

01:25:52.210 --> 01:25:54.610
pressures of the Daily Grind.

01:25:54.610 --> 01:25:55.120
It's Wonder,

01:25:58.300 --> 01:25:59.290
elastic, waist, and Rub.

01:26:01.150 --> 01:26:02.650
I'm floating past the midnight hour.

01:26:04.090 --> 01:26:05.845
They push aside the things that.