Twas the season of giving, yet something wasn't right, as control and
manipulation dimmed Christmas's light.
Though the coffers were full, with needs amply met, each purchase
for children was met with regret.
with such sparkle and cheer, but Father delayed, making children wait here.
Not yet, he would say, with timing precise.
His power displayed through this holiday vice.
His own gifts lay waiting, wrapped in such care, but he'd refuse them
completely, causing such despair.
I want nothing, he'd claim, yet judge others desires, while guilt tripping
wishes stoked emotional fires.
Last minute shopping, done just for show, no thought or
connection in gifts he'd bestow.
The children, though willing to shop for their mother, found no help from
father, their wishes to smother.
At holiday parties, a curious sight, his mood would transform, like day into night.
Beforehand, so bitter, resistant to go, then charming and
social, putting on quite a show.
But homeward bound, darkness would settle once more, his temperament
changing right after the door.
Even cookies for neighbors would cause him to fret, are food given away?
A controlling threat?
Till finally exhausted from emotional strain, each family
member sought refuge from pain.
To screens they retreated, this holiday crew, while visions of
peace remained far from view.
But remember, dear readers, as this tale you digest, ends.
That growth and awareness can put pain to rest for patterns once hidden when
finally clear can lead us to healing throughout the new year So that story
obviously was written in the style of twas the night before Christmas and it was
created by my friend Claude That's Claude AI one of the AI programs that I I enjoy
using to add more creative flair to my content But what makes that particularly
interesting is that it was generated from a listener's note about a different
type of cut A holiday cut, if you will, of the death by a thousand cuts variety.
And we're not talking about your standard paper cut from a eight and
a half by eleven inch sheet of paper.
Instead, we're dealing with cuts from wrapping paper, maybe gift tags, maybe
even pine needles, even packaging.
All of them, which have the potential to inflict harm during the holiday season.
And this harm might be emotional or spiritual or financial or otherwise.
And honestly, it's not just limited to the holidays.
Or this holiday, the Christmas holidays, or New Year's, it could
be birthdays, it could be Arbor Day, President's Day, any, any day.
It could actually happen at night, or in the morning, or mid morning, or
any time basically can become a moment when somebody might be made to question
their own sanity, or their own reality.
But today's focus will be on the holidays, Christmas in particular.
Hey everybody, welcome to Waking Up to Narcissism, this is episode 128.
I am your host Tony Overbay, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist,
and thank you for As always now to Riley Hope for her anthem, Not My Job, and you
can find a link to all of Riley's music in the show notes or just look Riley
Hope up wherever you listen to music.
And I have a brand new website that's finally been unveiled.
Go to tonyoverbay.
com, sign up there to get my newsletter, and please follow me on social media.
At Virtual Couch on Instagram, at Virtual couch on TikTok or Tony over Bay Licensed
Marriage and Family Therapist on Facebook.
I would love it if you would go watch this on YouTube, hit the subscribe
button and feel free to leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts.
I mentioned , earlier this year, a men's group called the Emotional Architects and
there has been a couple of false starts, but in 2025 we're talking early 2025.
You will see the beginning of an incredible men's group.
So whether you are the pathologically kind male or the guy , waking up
to his own narcissistic traits or tendencies, I would encourage you to
please reach out and just let me know.
I still have the emails from those of you who already wrote
in, you'll hear from me soon.
But if you would like to, feel free to just check in with me again, just
in case, because I would love to have you be a part of that group.
And for women who are navigating emotionally immature, narcissistic
relationships of any type, I do have a private women's
Facebook group that is amazing.
So please, please reach out to me and let me know if you're interested
in joining that and check out the virtual couch, Patreon at patreon.
com slash virtual couch.
There's a lot more there coming soon.
And email me with any questions or comments about anything around emotional
maturity, narcissism, relationships.
And right now I'm really looking in particular for things regarding faith
and mixed faith marriages people who are going through faith journeys, faith
crises, and what that looks like from a.
a narcissistic or an emotionally immature lens, I welcome those stories as well.
And before I dive right into the stories, I put this call out for stories about
the holidays to my listeners, as well as on a couple of the social media outlets.
And to the women in my private Facebook group at wanting these specific holiday
types of cuts or stories and the responses I received were, I was going
to say predominantly from women, but they were all from women this go around.
But I do want to take a moment and acknowledge that I think there's something
really important and I know from my, my clinical practice and from the emails
that I will get in often that there are plenty of men out there that are
dealing with narcissistic and extremely emotionally immature female partners.
And I think there's a pretty fascinating part about that dynamic
and it can actually, it can actually be more challenging in some ways
when you're that pathologically kind male in the relationship.
Because a lot of the gender stereotypes and the societal stereotypes of That it
can't be that the guy is the one that is being emotionally or even physically
or financially, spiritually abused.
A lot of guys are going through nice guy syndrome and where they will just
continue to take it, to, to suck it up, to try to just continue to try
to go perform and make more and do more so that people will like them.
But that doesn't typically fit the narrative that we hear about because
most of the stories that that I know that I do tend to feature.
Are about the pathologically kind woman in relationships with narcissistic or
extremely emotionally immature men.
And but I really do just want to emphasize, and I can't say it clearly
enough, that this relationship dynamic, , what Ross Rosenberg calls
the human magnet syndrome, which I highly recommend that book, it is
not limited by gender or orientation.
It comes in all shapes and sizes, all configurations that you can imagine.
And I mean this sincerely.
I really do want to hear from more of you out there, whether you're
the pathologically kind male in the dynamic, or if you're in a same
gender relationship dealing with these patterns, or maybe you're somebody
who's waking up to your own narcissistic tendencies or emotional immaturity,
that I want you to know, I see you.
This is the work that I do.
I really enjoy helping people understand this in themselves and
what's happening in their relationships.
And and I hear you, and I, and your stories matter just as much.
So, So do not hesitate to write in with your experiences, your questions,
your journeys, your poems, your songs, , because this isn't just about one type
of relationship or one type of person.
I see you and your voice definitely deserves to be heard in this conversation.
So with that said, let's let's dive right into the stories that
will make up today's episode.
All right.
Story number one.
My husband's relationship with Christmas revealed deep patterns around
control, particularly through money.
Despite having sufficient means for both needs and wants, he exhibited
extreme resistance to spending money on Christmas gifts for our kids.
He would deliberately delay Christmas morning gift opening, making
the children wait unnecessarily.
His own relationship with receiving gifts was equally challenging.
He'd refused to accept presents.
He would make everybody beg him to participate while simultaneously making me
feel guilty for wanting anything myself.
By the way, this is the story that.
I used to generate the twice the night before Christmas story at
the beginning of today's episode.
She went on to say, if he did shop for me, it was last minute
and without consideration for my interests or my desires.
And he never facilitated our children's ability to give me gifts either leaving me
feeling forgotten during what should be of season of giving his behavior at holiday
parties followed a distinct pattern.
He'd resist attending act terribly beforehand, then transform into a social
butterfly at the event, then revert to hostile behavior on the way home.
He even criticized my gesture of sharing Christmas cookies with the neighbors,
framing it as giving away all our food.
By the end of the gift opening, the emotional toll would leave everybody
to retreat into their electronic devices for the remainder of the day.
Thank you for sharing, and I know this one's going to resonate with a lot of
people, and I think that this is one of those situations that , I hesitate
to use the word beautifully, but beautifully illustrates how emotionally
immature a Behaviors can permeate every aspect of holiday celebrations,
because when we can see that control over money and time and even the cookie
distribution becomes a way to manage whatever his deep seated insecurities are.
That putting himself out there, being willing to let go of some of
that control, feels , too scary.
And so then, instead he will manage , everybody, everything, , every
ingredient, Every penny that comes in, also every emotion, whether it's the
anger of going to a party, but then when I'm there, I need to manage the
room and make sure everybody knows that I'm an amazing human being.
That deep seated insecurity is really about this fear and this
need for control because the uncertainty is just so, so scary.
, look at the delayed gift opening.
It's not really about timing, that's about power.
Because the resistance to receiving gifts, simultaneously failing
to give, and especially give thoughtfully, reveals something
profound about his emotional capacity.
It's too much going on.
And then when you see this stark contrast between public and private
behavior, that's really, really telling.
Because it lacks emotional consistency.
It's hard to find where that would be operating from any kind of a
place of integrity, because you may be telling yourself you're this
amazing human being, but you're not.
Right, guys looking behind you.
Nobody's there.
So out in public, this is the public persona I'm going to,
I'm going to put out there.
But then at home, I'm a, I'm frustrated and mad because people are giving
away all our chocolate chips and and they're spending all my money.
And how dare you get mom a super thoughtful gift when that, I don't
think that you've done that for me.
So in public settings where the, it's about optics where the brain just
perceives this need to maintain image.
Then he can access is more regulated behavior.
And I think often that's even more frustrating for people to see, because
if he can do that out in public, why on earth can't he do it at home?
Because in private where that external pressure is removed, well, now it's
time for the emotional immaturity to resurface and, uh, I don't know, put on a
bathrobe and just stroll around the house.
. It's about patterns of behavior that stem from his own nature and nurture
and abandonment and attachment and all those experiences from his youth.
But the impact on kids and on the entire family dynamic, I think is significant
because when holidays end up not just being this time where you get to enjoy
and give and celebrate and be free, when holidays become these exercises and
happen to even further, Regulate your emotions rather than celebrate, then I
think that's what we see described in what this woman talked about family
members start to retreat to individual coping mechanisms like their electronics,
and I think this is why maybe you see a uptick in unhealthy coping
mechanisms during the holidays because the brain starts to then seek safety
through distraction if the connection in the family feels too threatening.
So rather than this being this amazing, wonderful time.
Then it becomes a time where vices and coping mechanisms are further on display,
are actually hidden in the shadows.
Because then people get to beat themselves up and say, what's wrong with me?
I look on social media, everybody else seems to be having fun at Christmas.
Just remember that recognizing these patterns, is part of growth.
Starting to acknowledge that, okay, I'm not alone, or that's what I'm,
I've experienced in my own home.
Because you don't know what you don't know until something or someone
helps you see it more clearly.
Every interaction that you're going to hear today , every story can act as a bit
of a muse, teaching you about yourself, what you want or need in relationships.
You might even hear things and think, Oh, mine's not that bad.
You're going to have opinions that are going to come up from what you hear today.
The awareness that you're starting to show isn't just an observation.
This is the beginning of differentiation of understanding
how these patterns affect you.
They can impact your family, your children, and potentially this can be
the first step toward creating holiday experiences that align more with your
values or your wants or your needs.
I've got five or six more of these examples today, and I encourage you
to sit back, relax, and just take them in and see what that brings up for you.
Maybe even jot down some notes, talk to your therapist about them, email me.
With questions and we can even do a follow up episode on,
all right, what do I do next?
If this is what's happening in my dynamic.
Here's an example that I think really captures how emotional
maturity can throw an entire shadow over the holiday celebrations.
Another listener said before I understood narcissism, and then I'll just add a
little asterisk and say, or extreme emotional maturity, I had actually given
a name to my husband's holiday demeanor.
I called it his Christmas face.
It was this distinct expression, like somebody had just harmed his beloved pet.
I began to notice a pattern of him seeming to despise all holidays.
Concerned about how this affected our children, I started creating separate
holiday experiences without him present, just so they could experience pure
joy without walking on eggshells.
And you can see the dynamic that the emotionally immature
can create in the home.
Where even their not being there can impact the family because I'm sure that
people, while they want to be present with whatever these holiday celebrations are,
they're still , living in fear that when dad finds out, how's he going to take it?
Then do we have to start keeping secrets?
We want to be able to be open, especially about things like
celebrations or holidays.
She said this year, things escalated when he had an explosive outburst the
day before Thanksgiving with his family.
Through support from others, I've made some important realizations.
Thank you.
I've even decided to stop sending Christmas cards, something I
previously loved doing because I'm no longer willing to maintain the
facade that everything is fine.
Somebody pointed out that my tendency to keep up appearances
might actually enable his behavior.
Since he's highly invested in maintaining his public image, my
role in upholding this false reality isn't serving anybody's growth.
Now that takes a lot of a lot of emotional maturity just to even be
aware or be willing to do a little self confrontation like that.
That word enabler can be a really emotionally charged word because I think
often if I were to say to somebody, Hey, you're an enabler in my office,
it can feel like a, an accusation or a judgment of their character.
But I think if we can look at things like our behavior can actually be enabling
the unhealthy behaviors of others.
Well, now we can look at it with a little bit more curiosity.
With this example.
I think it's one of these where, again, when you start to recognize things that
you previously didn't see, , you don't know what you don't know once she sees
How she moved from trying to manage somebody else's emotions, creating
separate celebrations, maintaining appearances, to now recognizing how
these adaptations might actually be maintaining these unhealthy patterns.
And I know there's a fine line there of wanting to create these experiences
and really understanding or believing strongly that it would not be a very
positive experience to try to convince somebody that doesn't want to participate
like her husband to now get on board and be excited because if he's truly
this emotionally immature person with narcissistic traits and tendencies
right up to full blown narcissistic personality disorder, if you tell him
this is what I would like to do, now you've provided that attack surface, you
now said, Hey, here's what I want to do.
And then to the immature narcissistic person, they hear that as, Oh, you
think your thing is better than mine.
Well, I know what to do with that.
I will now knock you down a peg, put you in the one down position, me in the one up
and and I can go back about my business.
But now, meanwhile you're emotionally destroyed.
But back to the brain being a don't get killed device.
I think it often convinces us that keeping the peace and maintaining
the status quo is the safest option because it does keep the waters calm.
But but I don't know, a boat is not going to get anywhere on these calm seas.
Sometimes we gotta add a little bit of a little bit of
turbulence, some waves in there.
Because remember that growth comes from discomfort.
So when she mentioned stopping Christmas cards, that is an example
of being differentiated, making a choice based on a personal truth
rather than on the external pressures.
And sure, a lot of people might be listening to this and thinking, okay,
we'll just send out a picture or write.
I guess no one's going to suggest probably, Hey actually things stink.
My husband's incredibly emotionally immature, quite frankly, probably
won't even read this message because it doesn't have anything to do with him.
Or if he does.
Well, then you're probably not going to get this and you'll just get a picture,
but this story though, it just shows, I think so much how our early attachment
experiences, what we've seen modeled can start to impact our relationships
because many of us learned early on incorrectly, unfortunately, That we're
the ones that are responsible for managing other people's emotions or maintaining
a family image, these optics that we were talking about earlier, but part of
emotional maturity is recognizing when these learned behaviors no longer serve us
or our Children, and it's about not being.
We're not broken.
We're human, and we're going through these experiences.
And so I think often, and this is a process, but some of the
most loving things that we can do both for ourselves and others.
is to stop participating in patterns that keep everybody stuck, that keep everyone
still just floundering in this emotionally immature dynamic in the family system.
Okay let's keep this going.
Another person wrote in and said, My final Christmas with my ex husband revealed
a pattern I can now recognize clearly.
My son had planned an incredibly thoughtful combination Christmas
and 50th birthday gift for me.
A dream trip to Europe.
He presented it beautifully, giving me a travel book with an inscription
detailing a week long adventure that he arranged for me and my best friend of
forever, who was also my ex's godmother.
I always want to say fairy godmother, but I don't think that's always the case.
The moment I read the details aloud at my son's house, my ex's
demeanor changed dramatically.
He completely withdrew from the celebration and began
making excuses to leave.
Later that evening, he called my son in a rage, accusing him of betrayal for giving
me this gift without consulting him first.
He actually told my son, I can't believe you would do this to me.
Stop right there.
So, I can't believe you, son, would do this to me, father of giving.
Mom, a gift with her best friend, a gift of a lifetime.
When I eventually learned about this conversation and confronted him,
he tried to justify his reaction by saying, can you at least admit he
should have asked me about the dates?
But I stood firm and I explained that this gift had nothing to do with him.
The conflict continued throughout the holiday week, culminating in him
abruptly canceling our planned eight hour trip to visit our daughter.
However, I decided to make that journey alone and found joy in
the one on one time with her.
When I returned home, I finally acknowledged that this behavior
was systematically destroying my love for him, piece by piece.
This so shows how emotional immaturity can still exist post divorce.
This husband, this ex husband, I think he, his brain goes into threat
detection mode when he's faced with a situation that he can't control.
Because his, his reaction wasn't about this trip to Europe, it was
about his inability to handle not being the center of the narrative.
And what I think is so fascinating about this moment, why I think this serves as
a very powerful muse, is that through this experience she learned something profound
about herself and about her relationship.
In this case, she couldn't unsee , how her ex husband's emotional
immaturity was now manifesting in ways that threatened to dim her joy.
And then even her children's ability to express love through meaningful gifts.
think it shows how , the need to become differentiated, the need to know that
that is, that is a him thing becomes so important because with the lack of that
differentiation, now all of a sudden his butt hurtedness it's not a psychology
term in the DSM, but his butt hurtedness.
Is what is getting in the way it can actually impact and ruin
everyone else's experience, the gift giver, the gift receiver.
There's a, I've had examples of people that have talked about how now this,
in this situation, emotionally mature will most likely now make sure that
something dramatic happens before they leave on the trip, trying to
just derail someone else's experience because all eyes are not on them.
And.
So I think it's a beautiful example of differentiation in action because
despite the pressure, the emotional manipulation, what did she do?
Maintain a boundary.
And especially on that example of the trip to visit her daughter refused.
She refused to let his behavior control her choices.
Now that is growth.
That's recognizing that while we can't control others' reactions,
we can absolutely take a pause and then choose how we respond to them.
And she has a, a phrase in there at the end, killing my love piece by piece.
And I think that is, that is poignant because it shows how emotional maturity
creates the death by a thousand cuts in relationships because it's not
usually one big event that ends things.
It's this accumulated weight of just these countless moments where one person's
inability to manage their own emotions creates chaos for everybody around them.
And it impacts and infects the relationship.
And . It's about recognizing patterns that no longer serve us and making choices.
That align with our own value of maybe it's a value of connection, a
value of travel, a value of adventure, which then leads to raising our own
emotional baseline, our own well being.
And sometimes the most emotionally mature thing that we can do is acknowledge when
a relationship dynamic is getting in the way of me or even in her scenario,
her son growing into their best selves.
Okay, let me jump into another example.
Last Christmas became a turning point in my understanding of
emotional abuse and narcissism.
My son was just 11 months old and I was working extensive hours in the
hospital lab due to staffing shortages.
One day I came home to discover photos of my son's first visit
with Santa placed on our couch.
The pain of missing this milestone moment was overwhelming.
When I questioned whether my husband had intentionally excluded
me from this experience as a retaliation from my work schedule.
His response was explosive.
Through the fog of what I now recognize as, disassociation, certain comments
stand out clearly in my memory.
He told me to, quote, put my big girl panties on and stop taking naps.
This despite my having autoimmune disorder, while managing overtime
and work, as well as the household duties, child care, holiday
preparations, and gift shopping.
He criticized my housekeeping priorities, my constant running
of the washer and dryer,
while neglecting our pets, our animals, and he accused me of ignoring our son
by being, quote, glued to my phone and claimed that our son would always choose
him over me if he was given the choice.
At the time, these accusations left me feeling worthless, like I was failing
as a mother, as a pet owner, as a wife.
And it wasn't until I began therapy and I learned about narcissistic
patterns that I recognized these comments for what they likely were,
projections of his own insecurities.
And this also shows where People can often feel like , the
relationship it isn't bad.
It's okay.
Or people want to say that early on in the relationship, I don't think things
were as tense as they were, but then eventually they become more tense or you
start to see this emotional immaturity exhibited more because you go through
experiences in life that unpack these experiences, like having a kid or going
through financial difficulties , or the loss of someone in the family or a move.
But , you don't know how you're going to react to things until
you are in that situation.
And then that's almost, it's going to unpack a lot of these feelings
and emotions or an inability to deal with these feelings and emotions.
So in the scenario, when he was now confronted with his wife's legitimate
feelings of loss over missing their son's first Santa visit, instead of showing
empathy, and care, concern, compassion just being able to acknowledge, Hey,
I can understand that would be hard.
And I am so sorry.
And and Hey, let's go again.
I mean, he's 11 months old.
It's probably not gonna remember this one, but instead he has an attack response
to her trying to share her feelings and emotions because sometimes I think,
unfortunately it does take moments of profound pain to then, illuminate these
patterns that we couldn't see before.
And when she mentioned the disassociation, , this is not a client of mine.
I can't diagnose what was happening there.
But I think what she is speaking to is her body's wisdom.
It's almost this protective response to becoming emotionally overwhelmed.
And then I do think this also shows that textbook example of how shame
operates is that childhood defense mechanism, because if you notice how the
accusations touched on core aspects of identity, motherhood, home management,
pet ownership, basic competence, these weren't just random criticisms.
I believe that they were the buttons that he knew to push to get her to react so
that then he could say, see, look at you and not have to deal with his own stuff.
So they tap into these deep seated fears and insecurities that many of us carry
from our early attachment experiences.
But I do think that probably the most powerful part of this
story is the transformation.
If you take it from this perspective of her going to therapy, her
receiving education around emotional maturity and narcissism, and that
once she has that information, she does see things a lot more clear.
Because when we understand emotional immaturity, then I
think we'll often see that it does manifest itself in projection.
Somebody that is putting their own fears and their own
inadequacies on other people.
And we can start to then separate our true selves from this, this distorted
mirror that maybe somebody else is holding up to us because that's a them thing.
I remember one time , a friend of mine was talking about his wife would continually
say, well, I don't believe you.
You're not being honest.
And he truly was one of the more honest people that I think
I've known or interacted with.
But his then at the time wife was very dishonest, but there was always a reason.
Well, yeah, but, or it was just that, or you don't understand, or
I didn't mean to, or they made me do it always this projection or not
taking ownership of her own part.
But I thought what was really fascinating was then here's what
that projection or that emotionally mature projection can look like.
She is aware that she's not very honest, or she's saying things
to get out of her discomfort, or maybe she's not completely aware.
Maybe it's this buried in the subconscious, but the belief is that.
Well, everybody does that because everybody must do that to make me
feel like it's okay that I do that.
So I'm sure that he does that.
So now I'm projecting onto him.
Well, you're obviously not being honest.
But then he, because honesty was such an important value to him, that
was the right button to push that would cause him to lose his mind.
And then she, to her mind says, see, if you were being honest,
you wouldn't react that way.
So you can see where that dynamic, that projection is . Pushing the button
that can get our partner to react.
And then the person that just pushed the button can sit back and
they feel somewhat justified or validated because he, okay, they're
obviously not being honest as well.
Once again, it is a fantastic reason to learn how to become differentiated.
If I know that I'm being honest, if I live a life of integrity and honesty.
Then if that person says, well, you're not being honest.
Well, I know I am.
So tell me more.
What is this?
What are you seeing that you feel is not being honest?
Cause I want to I want to self reflect.
I want to leave room for this flexible sense of self cause I've got a pretty
solid sense of self, but the only way I'm going to really learn myself
better is in interactions with others.
But what if we're starting from this point where, but we're good, I'm good.
But tell me what you're saying, but then what if, I don't know, 90 percent of the
time, that answer that you're going to have, whether it's internally or you're
saying this out loud, is, Thank you.
Period.
Or I appreciate that.
Period.
Or I will take a look at that.
Period.
Meaning, I don't have to justify myself, because I know myself.
She talks more also about this feeling of being destroyed by these accusations
to then recognizing them as projections.
And I think that shows the growth that shows this shift.
It shows a move toward becoming more differentiated because
you're starting to reclaim what would be your locus of control.
You are in charge of your own thoughts, feelings, emotions, behavior.
And so understanding that somebody else's emotional immaturity doesn't
define your worth as a parent, a partner, a person, a pet owner.
That isn't just growth.
Now we're into the world of transformation.
Okay.
This one's a little shorter, but man, I I gotta get somebody offset.
Give me a, give me my soap box and get the wind machine ready.
Cause I think I have something that I'm going to really say.
I was gonna say go off on that.
It sounds very dramatic.
I don't think I'm very dramatic of a, of a person.
This person says during Christmas, my ex would refuse to participate in
gift shopping and then spend Christmas day pouting and making passive
aggressive comments about it being excluded from quote all the decisions.
Every New Year's followed a similar pattern.
He'd sleep most of the day, deliberately delaying our arrival
at my family's celebration.
When I finally decided to attend without him one year, he responded by
texting hurtful messages throughout the day that left me crying
throughout the evening while he punched holes in the walls at home.
Quick therapeutic commentary, and then we'll get the
soapbox and the wind machine.
Notice that pattern of creating a situation by refusing to participate,
then playing the victim when excluded, and then escalating the behavior to punish.
Punch holes in the wall.
Punish any attempt at a healthy boundary.
That is not, that is not what the holidays are about.
This is about control.
Because when somebody becomes emotionally activated like this,
their brain, this don't get killed device that I think that's a good
thing to be aware of, can lead them to choose the familiarity of destructive
patterns over the uncertainty of what healthy participation would look like.
And this shift from emotional manipulation to then physical aggression when
he lost control, shows exactly why setting boundaries, while necessary,
does require consideration and safety and why it can be so difficult.
And to the person who wrote in with this, you are recognizing these patterns.
That's the first step toward eventually reclaiming some of this
holiday joy, which probably seems very far out of reach right now.
But here's what I want to say to this to any of you that are punching
holes in walls, don't do that.
Knock it off.
There's, there's no reason.
That is such a an emotionally immature little kid reaction.
That's like kicking your ball over the fence.
It's breaking your bat.
It's breaking your friend's, I don't know, Barbie doll.
It is, that is emotional immaturity.
Your five year old self, That, that was not told how to use their
big kid words, or they were not given space to feel their emotions.
They weren't allowed to feel sad or to feel angry or frustrated
or cold or hungry or anything.
Even from the good parent who would tell them, hey, it's not that bad.
Or the parent that I saw dragging their kid out of Coldwell's BBQ a few weeks
ago, who was saying, you're not cold and you're not hungry, to the little girl
who looked like she had goosebumps on her, and were going into a restaurant.
I would imagine she was both cold and hungry.
We need to be allowed to feel our feelings.
And let our kids feel their feelings.
And name their emotions.
Help them understand what's going on inside of their own little
minds, and their own little bodies.
Because what happens then is I think that their little bodies make a little imprint
and they say, okay, I feel this, but I know that I shouldn't be or it's wrong,
but do me a solid me when you grow up and be a big kid and you have these feelings
and emotions, then you can do something about it because you will be an adult.
You'll be in a human form.
You'll probably be able to drive.
You might have a little extra money that you can go get therapy
or take a course or do something.
So then when the adult human feels all of a sudden so misunderstood,
so , misheard, they feel enraged.
That is the cue where the little kid version of them is saying
the inner child inside of them is going, okay, let's not kick the ball
over the fence of the playground.
Because remember, we actually couldn't play kickball anymore.
Everybody was kind of mad at you.
So now if you tell everybody to go jump in a lake, that's the nice version of
it, or you start breaking everybody's stuff or punching holes in the wall,
then that, that's even worse than not being able to play a kickball game.
You're instilling fear and terror into these people.
Even if you apologize later, well, good for you.
That probably makes you feel better.
But to everybody else, that, that left an imprint on them.
So to the wall puncher, to the extreme emotionally immature yeller
Now, your little child is screaming to you, you get to heal this.
Go and find help for that.
Learn to emotionally regulate.
Do whatever it takes, because you're now in charge.
Even if it doesn't feel like it.
You can start to be in charge on the inside.
I had one of the most beautiful experiences not long ago with someone
that I really, I admire, I care about, I trust and I think it took that
rapport to be able to express to them that one particular moment they were
feeling like they were a bad mom and they were starting to have these really
dark thoughts and emotions creep in.
And they said, That they found themselves thinking, my kids deserve a different mom.
, thanks to the rapport built and the trust in this person.
I was able to say they do, but it's you, it's you becoming a better mom.
It's you now learning that this is that little kid in you that is screaming,
okay, you, you now are in this situation.
You feel emotionally overwhelmed and your inner child is saying, Hey,
they deserve us to be different.
Not a different mom, meaning I don't need to be here anymore, but now your
own inner child is screaming at you.
It's time.
Let's do this.
Let's find help.
Let's fix ourselves.
Let's learn how to manage our own emotions.
Let's learn how to be more curious.
Let's break these patterns that were taught to us in our own childhood.
And yeah, it's going to take work, but it was a beautiful moment.
, I felt that moment where she and I were talking about
this and I think she did too.
Let that inner voice, that inner child let them guide us and say,
okay I still want to play kickball.
I can be a good mom.
I can learn, I can learn how to do this.
And unfortunately our parents bless their hearts.
A lot of them, they didn't know what they didn't know, and
they didn't know how to do it.
They didn't know how to help us manage our own emotions, do their own anxiety.
Meet our own needs, find our own joy, but now we have an opportunity to do that.
I promise this cliche is so true, but when I can learn to love myself now I
am in, I can love others, but if I don't love myself now, I'm continually trying
to figure out, Ooh, what do I need to say or do to get this person to love me?
Cause I don't want to do it wrong.
Cause then they won't love me.
That's a lot of emotional calories being spent where if you can learn to
love yourself and it is real, even if it sounds cliche right now, it's not.
That when I can learn to be okay with myself, when I can learn to manage my
own anxiety, when I can learn to self confront, when I can learn to critically
think about myself, when then I can go and do something about it, read things,
take courses, go to therapy and continue on this journey of becoming, I promise
you that over time, that implicit memory, what it feels like to be you or me or
whoever it is that is based off of the slow residue of your lived experience.
does start to change.
Those deeply rutted neuropathways start to move in a different direction.
Now your default is going to still be what it has been for a long time.
And change does not take as long as it took to get you there.
That's a completely false premise.
I'm 55 years old.
It will not take me until I'm 110 to change things around.
It'll take some time, but it is much, much quicker, or it can
be, than than one might think.
Now it's not three weeks.
We could be talking months.
We could be talking in a couple of years.
But you start to notice the progress and that can become empowering Okay, turn off
the wind machine take the soapbox away.
Okay, I've got a few more but let's go with this one.
I might have to do a part two or maybe I'll put the part two over on the Patreon.
This person said my ex would invest considerable effort into deliberately
choosing inappropriate gifts that I would never wear, creating a situation
where he then could claim I tried so hard while knowing the gifts wouldn't suit me.
She has a good reason why she knows later.
So stay tuned.
She said, even though I wouldn't complain, proactively shame me for being ungrateful
, regularly remind me of all the supposed work he put into selecting these gifts.
And then if I didn't use these ill suited gifts, then he'd use that as
further evidence of my ungratefulness.
So it almost felt like he was testing her.
I can't even think of to wear some ugly sweater to say, Hey, where's
that amazing sweater that I bought you that I put so much time and
effort into because I really did.
It was a very important gift for me to send you, to give
you, and you don't use it.
Notably, the only time he genuinely selected thoughtful gifts that aligned
with my interest was after I'd already decided to end the relationship.
So that proved that he was always capable of appropriate gift giving, but he
chose not to do so because that previous pattern garnered him more attention.
There's the frustrating part.
Because she felt crazy at the time that he would give these gifts and
that she would try to be appreciative of them, but it was never enough.
You then she wouldn't want to really wear or use the gift because it wasn't
anything that she needed or asked for, but then she would continually
be told how ungrateful she was.
Then she ends the relationship and now all of a sudden he, he saw her.
And why was he withholding those things in the relationship?
So in that case, I think by intentionally choosing these, what the inappropriate
gifts, he's setting up a scenario where he can't actually lose.
Because either he gets attention for his efforts, or he gets to play the victim
when the gifts aren't appreciated.
And then, what is so revealing here is that previous behavior wasn't about
an inability, but more about a choice.
And maybe it was that he became more focused when she said, I'm done.
But at that point, they had had decades before , why did it take
that for him to finally say, okay, okay, I'll pay attention.
So, what have we learned today?
As I've listened or read these holiday stories, something
really fascinating stands out.
That these moments that should be full of joy and connection often become
a spotlight of emotional immaturity and showing how that shows up in, in
a relationship or a family dynamic.
So when you start to look at all these stories put together, you really see
some patterns that start to emerge.
Because, and I think this is a key, the holidays can have this
way of taking whatever's already happening in the relationship
and then turning up the volume.
A good friend of mine that did had And then part of a business with for
a long time, who was, had done very well financially often said that people
that, had a lot of money, or they all of a sudden got a lot of money, that it
just made them more of what they were.
And this person was probably one of the most generous and
kind people I've ever seen.
And it just amped that up.
And all of the examples that he had I can think of people where money did
make them more of whatever that they were.
And that isn't always in a good way.
So I like that concept , of the holidays take emotional immaturity, and it amps
it up in whatever that situation is.
It turns that volume up.
Because there's all this pressure to create these, I don't want to
say perfect moments, but really powerful, good connecting moments.
To give the right gifts, to be one big happy family, and that pressure can
create the perfect emotional storm.
It's like all of our deepest hopes for feeling loved and appreciated
and connected get pushed right to the surface, and especially those of us
who didn't necessarily have the most positive holiday memories when we were
younger, desperately want to create those holiday memories when we're older.
Maybe to our detriment.
And I think as you saw in these stories, there are some themes that just keep
showing up over and over, because we see how gifts become weapons instead
of expressions of love, and we see how these emotional outbursts that
seem to happen at the most impactful moments, When kids are around, family
dynamics, family situations, and we see how kids feelings get pulled into
these adult dynamics, and kids start to be the emotional support animal, they
start to be literally in the middle and you start to see this fascinating
shift between a charming public face, and then a very different private one.
That is a lack of emotional consistency.
So no wonder people start to feel like they are walking on eggshells,
because they truly don't know which person am I going to get.
The public persona, or the one that's behind the scenes, because
sometimes I'll get the public one behind the scenes as well.
But this shows us how emotional immaturity operates when the stakes get higher,
like during holidays when everybody's emotions are already intensified.
. And for those of you who listened today and who recognize similar patterns
in your own lives I think this is where it does get really interesting.
Because understanding these patterns, it's it's not just about recognizing
difficult situations, but it's about understanding yourself and what is
happening to you in these situations.
It eventually becomes all about your own growth journey.
Because you know how sometimes you might be sitting there thinking,
okay, am I crazy for feeling this way?
Well, let me tell you something very important.
You're not.
And your story matters.
And every feeling you have about these situations, it is valid and it matters.
Bye.
And here's what I would like to say is the exciting part.
All this learning that you're doing, even through all the tough things that
you're going through, that matters.
It is changing that implicit memory.
It is becoming part of the slow residue of your lived experience.
Because when you start noticing that something feels off during what should
be a joyful moment, or when you get that familiar knot in your stomach
during holiday preparations, or when It's not you being too sensitive.
That's actually your, your inner wisdom talking to you, your inner child.
It's like your emotional GPS saying, Hey I think we're going the wrong way.
Something's not quite right here.
And it is completely okay to feel everything you're
feeling about these situations.
Some of those people think that they should just get over it or move on
or they're being too sensitive, but that is not how human emotions work.
Maybe you feel angry when you remember how your partner made the kids wait
unnecessarily on Christmas morning.
That anger.
It's telling you something really important about your values or what
you believe your children deserve.
It's trying to speak to you so you can do something about it.
Maybe not right now but just start to be aware of it.
Take that in.
Or maybe you feel sad when you think about all those Christmas cards you
carefully prepared while being criticized.
That sadness is showing you your capacity for thoughtfulness and
your desire for a real connection.
You do not know what you don't know until you know it.
And I know that can sound like a riddle or a tongue twister but when you really
break it down, you think about it.
Many of you are now just seeing patterns that were always there, but
you couldn't recognize them before, or you tried to make it more about you.
Why I hear so often, am I the narcissist?
And if you're asking yourself that, no, no, you're not.
Because you're the one that is asking yourself that.
And you're the one that's listening to this podcast and you've made
it all the way to the end almost.
And we still have this tendency to, if I can make it about me, I can fix it.
If it's not about me, then I might have to set a boundary.
I might have to do something for me.
And sometimes that recognition of all of this really hurts, but it's
actually a sign that you are growing.
It's developing brand new emotional muscles and man,
are they going to be sore?
So looking ahead to future holidays, I want you to really, really hear this.
You have every right to create new traditions that actually feel good.
You can set boundaries that that protect your joy, your happiness, and most
importantly, you can experience genuine celebration without walking on eggshells.
Every time you notice these old patterns, you're not just seeing problems.
You're getting clearer about what you want to create instead, because
please remember you are not broken.
You are human and humans are messy and they're complicated and
they're beautiful and their growth.
And you are so not alone in this journey.
This episode alone will reach a hundred and something countries and be
downloaded tens of thousands of times.
It blows my mind to see those, those numbers behind the scenes,
because that's how many people are resonating, especially with these
ones that are about the thousand cuts.
Let me say that again, because I think it's so important.
You are not alone in this and your ability to recognize the patterns, to
talk about them, to learn from them.
That shows incredible resilience and sure.
Well, we can accept that past holidays probably weren't what you wanted or
even deserved, but here's where things start to get a little bit more exciting.
Your future celebrations can be different.
They can reflect your values, your love, your understanding of
what real connection looks like.
Because you're not just surviving these experiences, you are learning and you're
growing and you're creating something new.
And I will tell you what gets me really excited, the fact that you're
here and listening and learning.
That shows courage because it takes a lot of bravery to look at these patterns
and say, I want something different.
That's not just healing for you, but now we're going to
start to heal for generations.
Now we're going to heal for our kids.
We're going to show them a model standing up for yourself.
It doesn't have to be very angry and dramatic.
You can express yourself.
You can do things because you want to do them and they're the right things to do.
So you're healing again, your kids, maybe your future relationships or
everybody who gets to witness your journey toward emotional maturity,
differentiation, authentic connection.
I want you to remember this.
You, you've got this, you really do.
And you're not just walking this path alone and every step you take toward
understanding yourself and these patterns as a step toward true, genuine joy and
connection that you may not know what that even looks like right now, but
you deserve it and you can find it.
And it is going to take time, but you're here and wherever you're at on
the path is right where you need to be.
And I'm grateful to to hopefully be guiding you a
little bit along that journey.
That is what this whole thing is all about, not, maybe it's
not all about the hokey pokey.
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Holidays, and we will see you
next time on Waking Up the Narcissim.