WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.160 Okay, let's take a stroll down memory lane, picture. 00:00:08.180 --> 00:00:09.410 This you are 16. 00:00:09.890 --> 00:00:13.550 And a new restaurant called frontier pies pops up in your neighborhood, 00:00:13.579 --> 00:00:14.510 pretty close to your house. 00:00:14.870 --> 00:00:15.469 And you're thinking. 00:00:15.610 --> 00:00:16.129 this is it. 00:00:16.550 --> 00:00:18.950 This is my big break into the culinary world. 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:21.200 I am going to be a pie maker. 00:00:21.740 --> 00:00:22.130 So there you are. 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:24.830 You're daydreaming about your future pie empire. 00:00:25.130 --> 00:00:26.240 You're torn between. 00:00:26.489 --> 00:00:28.713 , should I lead with a classic apple pie Because? 00:00:28.743 --> 00:00:33.963 can't go wrong with the classics or do I go full mad scientists with some wild 00:00:33.963 --> 00:00:35.763 chocolate chip mint crest concoction. 00:00:36.303 --> 00:00:39.123 And you're practicing your lines in the mirror when you're going to the 00:00:39.123 --> 00:00:42.193 interview, you know, I've, eaten more pies than I can count, or I can't wait 00:00:42.193 --> 00:00:44.323 to learn the ancient art of pie making. 00:00:44.953 --> 00:00:47.253 But then you show up for the interview reality hits you like a. 00:00:47.833 --> 00:00:51.103 Sorry, it's too easy, but a cream pie to the face because the manager's questions. 00:00:51.583 --> 00:00:53.953 Or about as deep as a pie tin. 00:00:54.413 --> 00:00:55.043 Do you have a car? 00:00:55.493 --> 00:00:57.053 Can you work weekends and nights? 00:00:57.473 --> 00:00:59.063 You appear to be breathing right. 00:00:59.483 --> 00:00:59.843 Okay. 00:00:59.933 --> 00:01:01.223 You're hired and boom. 00:01:01.613 --> 00:01:02.243 Just like that. 00:01:02.243 --> 00:01:05.333 You are not the next great pie master chef. 00:01:05.693 --> 00:01:06.473 You're a bus boy. 00:01:06.717 --> 00:01:11.027 Fast forward to opening weekend and then some customer decides to re-enact that 00:01:11.087 --> 00:01:13.697 pie eating contest scene from stand by me. 00:01:13.697 --> 00:01:16.097 If you haven't seen it, please go find a clip on YouTube. 00:01:16.487 --> 00:01:19.727 Except for, they take it a step further because they return this PI. 00:01:20.237 --> 00:01:22.217 All over the women's bathroom. 00:01:22.697 --> 00:01:25.577 And we're talking to the floor and the counter in the hallway and everywhere. 00:01:25.607 --> 00:01:29.257 And guess who gets to play janitor to this pie apocalypse. 00:01:29.527 --> 00:01:30.037 That's right. 00:01:30.367 --> 00:01:31.297 You, you guessed it. 00:01:31.687 --> 00:01:35.467 Not the now master Piman, but the mighty bus boy. 00:01:35.947 --> 00:01:40.517 So there you are mopping hand thinking this was not what I anticipated when 00:01:40.517 --> 00:01:42.707 I was daydreaming about my pie empire. 00:01:43.367 --> 00:01:47.207 And and that is how your dreams of pie domination turned into 00:01:47.207 --> 00:01:49.097 a very messy reality check. 00:01:49.347 --> 00:01:51.447 but maybe you have had your own experience with a job interview. 00:01:51.667 --> 00:01:53.767 You're up all night and you're prepping and you're drilling yourself 00:01:53.767 --> 00:01:54.877 on all those classic questions. 00:01:54.877 --> 00:01:55.057 Like 00:01:55.533 --> 00:01:57.033 what's your biggest weakness? 00:01:57.403 --> 00:02:01.813 I care too much or I work too hard and sometimes I think I'm too efficient 00:02:02.083 --> 00:02:04.886 or , Do you consider perfectionism a weakness in this industry? 00:02:05.306 --> 00:02:09.356 Or you've got a very killer story about how you saved your last project from 00:02:09.356 --> 00:02:13.466 disaster, and you don't want to drop names, but let's just say the owner of 00:02:13.466 --> 00:02:14.726 the company, maybe you've heard of him. 00:02:15.146 --> 00:02:16.136 Jackson box. 00:02:16.136 --> 00:02:17.846 I believe he goes by the name Jack to most. 00:02:18.116 --> 00:02:22.916 Was so impressed that you indeed got a 15 cent race, not a dime 15 cents. 00:02:23.306 --> 00:02:24.956 But basically I'm ready for anything. 00:02:25.706 --> 00:02:27.646 But then you walk in and boom. 00:02:28.036 --> 00:02:30.706 The interviewer spots, a hobby listed at the bottom of your resume. 00:02:31.066 --> 00:02:34.066 And the next thing, you know, you're chatting about your obsession with growing 00:02:34.066 --> 00:02:37.606 tomatoes on your fire escape, as well as falconry and fixing unfold radios, you 00:02:37.636 --> 00:02:42.046 find it garage sales, and now you're both laughing about how your, tomato plants 00:02:42.046 --> 00:02:45.986 have basically become your children or how go figure who knew Falcons loved the 00:02:46.016 --> 00:02:49.046 DIY shows on am radio and how actually. 00:02:49.356 --> 00:02:52.956 Those experiences have taught you a ton about patients in the workplace 00:02:52.986 --> 00:02:54.246 while simultaneously learning. 00:02:54.516 --> 00:02:56.256 That you never really know what you don't know. 00:02:56.646 --> 00:02:59.466 Until you've really seen a Falcon stop halfway through tearing apart his dinner 00:02:59.856 --> 00:03:03.276 to seem as if he's almost disagreeing with the grain of sandpaper that the 00:03:03.276 --> 00:03:05.016 talk show host is recommending one use. 00:03:05.346 --> 00:03:07.626 On their 30 year old deck before applying stain. 00:03:07.746 --> 00:03:10.086 And then I'll wait, time's up already. 00:03:10.316 --> 00:03:11.456 We've felt so connected. 00:03:11.936 --> 00:03:12.746 So you walk out thinking. 00:03:13.106 --> 00:03:15.716 I never really mentioned that awesome project saved that I had really thought 00:03:15.716 --> 00:03:17.306 about, but you know what it felt good. 00:03:17.756 --> 00:03:20.186 You clicked with the interviewer and then the whole thing was 00:03:20.186 --> 00:03:21.266 way more fun than you expected. 00:03:22.066 --> 00:03:24.496 But when you allow yourself to be patient in that moment, give yourself 00:03:24.496 --> 00:03:25.936 a little psychological flexibility. 00:03:25.966 --> 00:03:29.566 You can have a genuine shared experience with another, with the 00:03:29.566 --> 00:03:33.066 interviewer, whoever it is, , you basically plan for one thing and you 00:03:33.066 --> 00:03:34.176 get something completely different. 00:03:34.536 --> 00:03:38.526 But if you are being yourself, It's sometimes not even sometimes most 00:03:38.526 --> 00:03:40.416 of the time that is even better. 00:03:41.136 --> 00:03:44.466 So welcome to episode 116 of waking up the narcissism. 00:03:44.466 --> 00:03:45.396 I'm your host, Tony Overbay. 00:03:45.396 --> 00:03:46.956 I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. 00:03:47.346 --> 00:03:50.586 And that opening story was born from an experience I had this week. 00:03:50.826 --> 00:03:52.926 And what has led to this very episode today? 00:03:52.956 --> 00:03:54.426 One where we are going to. 00:03:54.936 --> 00:03:59.106 Go really deep comparing and contrasting emotional immaturity narcissism. 00:03:59.406 --> 00:04:01.416 Nice guy or nice person syndrome. 00:04:01.746 --> 00:04:05.526 And I'm gonna introduce to you, I think it's going to be a really helpful 00:04:05.526 --> 00:04:09.726 and healthy way to talk about what healthy versions of relationships 00:04:09.726 --> 00:04:11.166 look like in different situations. 00:04:12.006 --> 00:04:14.976 'cause earlier this week, I was a guest on the stuff and Craig's 00:04:14.976 --> 00:04:17.616 show and it's a really enjoyable. 00:04:17.806 --> 00:04:21.916 I'd say thought provoking podcasts by a couple Steph and Craig who have been 00:04:21.916 --> 00:04:24.676 through a lot in their relationship, in their marriage and their careers. 00:04:24.946 --> 00:04:28.096 And they just decided to go full vulnerability and put it out there. 00:04:28.366 --> 00:04:29.666 And it was amazing. 00:04:29.666 --> 00:04:31.946 We chatted for almost two hours and we covered a wide 00:04:31.946 --> 00:04:33.776 range of all kinds of topics. 00:04:33.916 --> 00:04:36.976 Everything around differentiation, emotional immaturity. 00:04:37.246 --> 00:04:39.826 I got to talk about my four pillars that we just talked about. 00:04:39.856 --> 00:04:40.786 So many things. 00:04:40.836 --> 00:04:44.706 Except for one that I had prepared extensively for, and it's totally on me 00:04:44.766 --> 00:04:48.996 because they teed me up perfectly, but then the conversation just kept flowing. 00:04:48.996 --> 00:04:52.926 It was so natural that I did keep looking for a way to circle 00:04:52.926 --> 00:04:54.786 back to my prepared material. 00:04:55.356 --> 00:04:59.526 But eventually I realized that it would feel very forced to try to squeeze it in. 00:05:00.006 --> 00:05:03.156 And honestly, this might sound silly, but I remember the point during the 00:05:03.156 --> 00:05:04.386 interview where it kind of hit me. 00:05:04.836 --> 00:05:05.916 So I have my own podcast. 00:05:06.006 --> 00:05:08.796 I could discuss these things right after my chat with Stephen Craig. 00:05:09.246 --> 00:05:11.016 So that's exactly what I, I am doing. 00:05:11.526 --> 00:05:14.166 And by the way, though, I highly recommend checking out Stephen Craig 00:05:14.226 --> 00:05:16.266 there on . YouTube, Instagram, Tik, TOK. 00:05:16.646 --> 00:05:17.726 And watch the entire interview. 00:05:17.756 --> 00:05:20.406 They're putting up some clips and there's one right now about where 00:05:20.406 --> 00:05:24.576 I'm talking about what differentiation looks like of learning, how to try 00:05:24.576 --> 00:05:28.746 and maintain a connection with someone while holding onto yourself and 00:05:28.796 --> 00:05:31.916 developing your own independence and autonomy in a relationship, which is. 00:05:32.366 --> 00:05:34.796 The healthy way that relationships can work. 00:05:35.296 --> 00:05:38.596 The first part of what I want to share is probably going to sound familiar. 00:05:38.956 --> 00:05:42.076 If you have listened to the podcast even somewhat regularly, because it 00:05:42.076 --> 00:05:46.696 starts with how people throw around the word narcissist, like it's no big deal. 00:05:47.266 --> 00:05:49.366 Again, it sounds like almost everybody's a narcissist. 00:05:49.366 --> 00:05:54.796 Certainly everyone's X fill in the blank is ex spouse, ex boss X church X mailman. 00:05:55.126 --> 00:06:00.046 But in reality only, and this is debatable, but somewhere three to 5%. 00:06:00.436 --> 00:06:04.426 Of people would be actually diagnosable narcissist with narcissistic 00:06:04.426 --> 00:06:07.306 personality disorder, or really anything in that personality disorder, 00:06:07.306 --> 00:06:09.316 cluster, a cluster B, I think it is. 00:06:09.776 --> 00:06:13.196 Narcissism and histrionic personality disorder as well as borderline. 00:06:13.916 --> 00:06:14.876 But the rest of us. 00:06:15.296 --> 00:06:16.946 We're all emotionally immature. 00:06:17.666 --> 00:06:20.036 And I will defend that with everything I have. 00:06:20.516 --> 00:06:23.876 Because there is where we can start to find ourselves with a slight 00:06:23.876 --> 00:06:25.646 amount of, shall we say hope. 00:06:26.066 --> 00:06:27.356 Pope in ourselves. 00:06:27.356 --> 00:06:29.576 Maybe even hoping the relationship, although we'll talk about that. 00:06:30.446 --> 00:06:33.516 Because with the first rule of nurses club is you don't talk 00:06:33.516 --> 00:06:36.096 about nurses club, meaning you don't tell the narcissists that you 00:06:36.096 --> 00:06:37.596 suspect that they are a narcissist. 00:06:38.286 --> 00:06:41.546 And I will also then add to that rule that, and if you are 00:06:41.546 --> 00:06:42.986 asking yourself, if you are. 00:06:43.036 --> 00:06:43.786 . And I would say. 00:06:44.066 --> 00:06:46.406 You're not because you're the one that's trying to figure it out. 00:06:46.976 --> 00:06:49.616 Now the big difference there is, if you're listening to this and you 00:06:49.916 --> 00:06:52.856 are a little bit more narcissistic or very emotionally immature, but 00:06:52.856 --> 00:06:56.036 you just said, oh, Tony said, if you say these words, then you're not. 00:06:56.186 --> 00:06:57.956 And I just said those words, apparently I'm not. 00:06:58.496 --> 00:06:59.726 That is a whole different vibe. 00:06:59.756 --> 00:07:01.346 That is a whole different energy. 00:07:02.066 --> 00:07:02.426 But. 00:07:03.086 --> 00:07:05.816 If we go down this path of emotional immaturity. 00:07:06.446 --> 00:07:07.916 Then it's a easier to talk about. 00:07:07.946 --> 00:07:10.166 Maybe even a little easier to stomach. 00:07:10.646 --> 00:07:14.306 Going on an exploration of my own emotional immaturity versus my narcissism. 00:07:14.886 --> 00:07:18.036 Emotional maturity is still not something you're going to see a greeting card 00:07:18.036 --> 00:07:19.176 made of, you know, Hey, congrats. 00:07:19.176 --> 00:07:20.076 They're actually not in our system. 00:07:20.496 --> 00:07:21.966 But I think you're incredibly, emotionally immature. 00:07:22.766 --> 00:07:25.196 Although, it's not a bad idea for a line of cards. 00:07:25.356 --> 00:07:27.336 But we can work on emotional immaturity. 00:07:27.636 --> 00:07:28.806 It's not easy though. 00:07:29.136 --> 00:07:32.826 You gotta be ready to face some very uncomfortable feelings, learning 00:07:32.826 --> 00:07:34.026 how to sit with that discomfort. 00:07:34.566 --> 00:07:36.636 And learning how to self confront. 00:07:37.116 --> 00:07:40.626 You will need to admit that there are things that you don't know, you don't 00:07:40.626 --> 00:07:41.766 even know that you don't know them. 00:07:42.246 --> 00:07:46.656 And learn how to calm yourself down self-sooth and learn how 00:07:46.656 --> 00:07:50.286 to take responsibility for your actions and try to understand other 00:07:50.286 --> 00:07:51.756 people's feelings a bit better. 00:07:52.326 --> 00:07:55.866 And if you do all of that, you really can start to change your life for the better. 00:07:56.466 --> 00:08:00.746 And whenever I head down this path always reminds me of the movie dumb and dumber. 00:08:01.286 --> 00:08:03.266 If you remember if you've seen it. 00:08:03.626 --> 00:08:05.066 If you haven't, you are missing out. 00:08:05.726 --> 00:08:07.496 But Jim Carey's character. 00:08:07.766 --> 00:08:09.236 Who is named Lloyd Christmas. 00:08:09.656 --> 00:08:11.176 Asks his love interest. 00:08:11.176 --> 00:08:13.906 So you're telling me I have a chance and I think that's how 00:08:13.936 --> 00:08:15.196 it is with the emotional growth. 00:08:15.556 --> 00:08:19.216 There's a chance you're telling me that I've got a chance to get better. 00:08:19.786 --> 00:08:22.906 And for a lot of us, if we felt like what is wrong with me, or I don't even 00:08:22.906 --> 00:08:25.696 know what's going wrong, or I don't know how to show up differently, or 00:08:25.756 --> 00:08:29.236 I don't understand why my spouse is continuing to do the things they're doing. 00:08:29.506 --> 00:08:32.596 But if I can look at that from a place of emotional immaturity, Where it were 00:08:32.626 --> 00:08:34.006 telling me that I've got a chance. 00:08:34.006 --> 00:08:36.706 And speaking of that movie quote, I think this is a funny story. 00:08:36.946 --> 00:08:39.286 I've always thought that Jim Carey said that line early in the movie 00:08:39.316 --> 00:08:42.766 that it was when he was in this limousine and he rolls down a window. 00:08:43.096 --> 00:08:46.336 And also it was tied in with the line, throw another shrimp on the 00:08:46.336 --> 00:08:48.196 Barbie when she says that she's from. 00:08:48.886 --> 00:08:49.816 I don't ever see, look at this. 00:08:49.846 --> 00:08:50.866 I don't remember that part. 00:08:51.376 --> 00:08:52.006 But it turns out though. 00:08:52.006 --> 00:08:53.236 Anyway, I was wrong. 00:08:53.296 --> 00:08:55.996 That scene you're telling me you have a chance to actually happens later 00:08:56.266 --> 00:08:59.266 when he's trying to see if he has a shot with the girl, he likes the, 00:08:59.686 --> 00:09:01.366 her character name was Mary Swanson. 00:09:01.906 --> 00:09:04.756 And I think this mix-up is a really good example of. 00:09:05.035 --> 00:09:05.795 confabulation. 00:09:06.459 --> 00:09:09.819 Confabulation is when our brains filling gaps in our memories with made up 00:09:09.849 --> 00:09:11.889 things, things that we think happened. 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:14.109 And we really believe that those things are true. 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.919 People sometimes have called it things like honest, lying. 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.509 I think when you hear lying, it's just like hearing the word 00:09:18.509 --> 00:09:20.619 narcissist it's hard to say. 00:09:20.719 --> 00:09:24.559 Healthy narcissism or honest lying, but people will call it honest line 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.019 because we're in those scenarios, not trying to fool anybody. 00:09:27.019 --> 00:09:30.919 We just got our wires, crossed our mechanism of memory fills in gaps. 00:09:30.949 --> 00:09:34.549 It happens with everybody and it's usually not that big of a deal. 00:09:35.049 --> 00:09:37.089 Let me take you to the actual dialogue from the movie. 00:09:37.269 --> 00:09:40.949 So a reminder, Lloyd Christmas . Carrie's character was trying to see if he had 00:09:40.949 --> 00:09:42.539 a chance with a romantic relationship. 00:09:42.869 --> 00:09:45.239 With his love interest, Mary Swanson, Q a. 00:09:45.479 --> 00:09:46.289 Lloyd Christmas. 00:09:46.829 --> 00:09:50.249 He says, what do you think the chances are of a guy like you and 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:53.789 a girl like me ending up together, which right there is some of the 00:09:53.789 --> 00:09:55.889 brilliance of dumb and dumber BeltLine. 00:09:56.429 --> 00:10:00.389 Where he is saying a guy like you and a girl like me and the up together, 00:10:00.599 --> 00:10:01.979 the Mary Swanson says not good. 00:10:02.699 --> 00:10:03.839 And Lloyd says, you mean. 00:10:04.109 --> 00:10:05.969 Not good, like one out of a hundred. 00:10:06.239 --> 00:10:09.509 And she says, I'd say more like one out of a million. 00:10:10.259 --> 00:10:11.489 And there's a dramatic pause. 00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:14.909 And then Lloyd says C telling me there's a chance. 00:10:15.629 --> 00:10:17.451 So the line itself is different. 00:10:17.451 --> 00:10:18.771 The place in the movie, it was different. 00:10:19.341 --> 00:10:22.161 And I was convinced that I had that thing down. 00:10:22.401 --> 00:10:23.661 There's your beer? 00:10:23.901 --> 00:10:28.251 Honest kind version of confabulation will regular confabulation. 00:10:28.251 --> 00:10:31.251 You know, it's like when you swear a favorite childhood toy was blue, 00:10:31.341 --> 00:10:33.501 but then your mom shows you a picture and it was actually red. 00:10:34.041 --> 00:10:36.501 And it's really not that big of a deal, a little uncomfortable. 00:10:36.531 --> 00:10:37.461 You just kind of laugh it off. 00:10:38.091 --> 00:10:41.061 But now narcissistic confabulation, that's a whole different ballgame. 00:10:41.361 --> 00:10:43.011 It's like, you're telling that person with the toy. 00:10:43.401 --> 00:10:47.151 AI, I think it was red and they flip out and they insisted it was blue. 00:10:47.211 --> 00:10:48.471 We're talking now in adulthood. 00:10:49.041 --> 00:10:51.441 And then somehow they make you feel crazy for even suggesting 00:10:51.441 --> 00:10:53.921 otherwise, they're saying things like how did you doctor that photo? 00:10:54.011 --> 00:10:56.201 Because I know it wasn't red, it was blue period. 00:10:56.201 --> 00:10:56.801 End of story. 00:10:57.341 --> 00:10:59.741 And they're literally looking at a picture and it's red. 00:11:00.301 --> 00:11:01.201 Oh, they're thinking. 00:11:01.201 --> 00:11:01.351 Okay. 00:11:01.411 --> 00:11:01.741 Oh, okay. 00:11:02.011 --> 00:11:03.271 It must be one of those deep fakes. 00:11:03.301 --> 00:11:04.081 I've heard a lot about those. 00:11:04.081 --> 00:11:04.891 How do I even know? 00:11:05.221 --> 00:11:06.301 That was you, mom. 00:11:06.331 --> 00:11:09.021 That's show me that's your arm and the picture and the kid. 00:11:09.591 --> 00:11:10.701 Now they look at that. 00:11:10.791 --> 00:11:11.931 That's not even me. 00:11:12.741 --> 00:11:13.911 What does that a child actor? 00:11:14.491 --> 00:11:15.421 Holding a red toy. 00:11:16.021 --> 00:11:18.871 This whole thing stage, holy cow, I'm having a hard time because 00:11:19.141 --> 00:11:21.751 now I'm almost starting to have a panic attack because that isn't me. 00:11:22.051 --> 00:11:22.921 The toy was red. 00:11:23.011 --> 00:11:24.721 And I don't even know if I can trust you. 00:11:24.751 --> 00:11:28.051 I mean, the very fact that you brought me this obviously doctored a photo with 00:11:28.051 --> 00:11:33.411 some kid actors some type of sick joke, like seriously, So you see a narcissist 00:11:33.471 --> 00:11:36.171 uses confabulation like a bit of a shield. 00:11:36.861 --> 00:11:39.381 Because they're not just filling in memory gaps, they're rewriting 00:11:39.381 --> 00:11:41.091 history to make themselves look good. 00:11:41.091 --> 00:11:42.561 And it happens in real time. 00:11:42.711 --> 00:11:43.581 It's not about forgetting. 00:11:44.061 --> 00:11:47.631 It's about not being able to handle the idea that they might be wrong or at fault. 00:11:48.441 --> 00:11:51.351 It's an essence, like you picture the inner child, the little kid there. 00:11:51.501 --> 00:11:55.191 Who's terrified of being abandoned of being left alone because that's, what's. 00:11:55.314 --> 00:11:56.544 Going on in the Narcisse head. 00:11:56.614 --> 00:11:58.084 And I'm not talking, it's conscious. 00:11:58.114 --> 00:11:59.464 It's very deep in there. 00:11:59.864 --> 00:12:03.524 This belief that if they are wrong or did something that made somebody sad or feel 00:12:03.524 --> 00:12:05.504 bad, Did that person will abandon them. 00:12:05.934 --> 00:12:06.894 In that very moment. 00:12:07.404 --> 00:12:10.224 It's the sway that the concept of gaslighting. 00:12:10.554 --> 00:12:12.234 It is a childhood defense mechanism. 00:12:12.574 --> 00:12:15.514 It has been the air that one breeze for a very long time, 00:12:15.514 --> 00:12:16.534 which is why it's so convincing. 00:12:16.804 --> 00:12:20.074 So it not only couldn't have happened the way you think about it I'll 00:12:20.074 --> 00:12:21.664 know it did not happen that way. 00:12:22.144 --> 00:12:24.274 And as a matter of fact, they can't believe that you would even 00:12:24.274 --> 00:12:26.764 think the way that you're thinking, because you must not know them. 00:12:26.764 --> 00:12:27.724 You must not understand them. 00:12:28.084 --> 00:12:28.954 You must not see them. 00:12:29.074 --> 00:12:31.264 And actually they not require an apology. 00:12:31.744 --> 00:12:35.554 Which if you are the pathological kind of person you've most likely 00:12:35.554 --> 00:12:39.244 given on many, many occasions and then went and wasted an insane amount 00:12:39.244 --> 00:12:40.684 of emotional calories and energy. 00:12:41.134 --> 00:12:42.574 Trying to figure out, wait, am I crazy? 00:12:42.874 --> 00:12:43.774 Wait, am I the problem? 00:12:44.524 --> 00:12:46.864 Is there so scared of being abandoned or seen as less than 00:12:46.864 --> 00:12:48.424 perfect that they'll twist reality. 00:12:48.934 --> 00:12:49.834 To avoid it.. 00:12:49.834 --> 00:12:52.384 So when something happens and it might be their fault, their 00:12:52.384 --> 00:12:53.614 brain goes into overdrive. 00:12:54.004 --> 00:12:55.984 It's like their mind is saying, Nope, can't be my fault. 00:12:56.104 --> 00:12:57.064 Must have been something else. 00:12:57.544 --> 00:12:58.774 And then again, the kicker. 00:12:59.044 --> 00:13:01.294 They believe that made up version. 00:13:01.294 --> 00:13:03.364 This is why they can look you dead in the eye and swear up 00:13:03.364 --> 00:13:04.964 and down that toy was blue. 00:13:05.144 --> 00:13:07.154 You know that something happened completely different than you remember. 00:13:07.784 --> 00:13:12.734 And there, there is a version of someone who has, is just impulsively, lying. 00:13:13.214 --> 00:13:14.024 And that's where that. 00:13:14.654 --> 00:13:17.464 Fine line comes in of the impulsively lying. 00:13:18.034 --> 00:13:21.334 Versus the truly confabulating a narrative because in that scenario, they're not 00:13:21.334 --> 00:13:23.074 just lying and their mind is true. 00:13:23.074 --> 00:13:23.764 It has to be true. 00:13:23.764 --> 00:13:26.374 It can't be the way that you say it is because that would mean they did something 00:13:26.374 --> 00:13:28.144 wrong or they hurt your feelings. 00:13:28.654 --> 00:13:31.534 So that's where the gaslighting comes in. 00:13:32.044 --> 00:13:35.914 They are so convincing with their fake versions of events. 00:13:36.244 --> 00:13:38.284 That you start doubting yourself. 00:13:38.554 --> 00:13:39.034 You're thinking. 00:13:39.754 --> 00:13:41.044 Wait, did I remember that wrong? 00:13:41.254 --> 00:13:42.244 Am I, the one messing up here. 00:13:42.874 --> 00:13:45.334 It's you're both watching a movie, but when you talk about it later, they 00:13:45.334 --> 00:13:46.744 describe a totally different plot. 00:13:47.464 --> 00:13:48.454 And they're so sure about it. 00:13:48.484 --> 00:13:50.494 You start wondering if you dozed off and miss something, 00:13:50.524 --> 00:13:51.604 because I have done that before. 00:13:52.264 --> 00:13:54.994 The big differences that we'll say regular people. 00:13:55.024 --> 00:13:59.314 I don't mean that to sound judgmental, but can usually admit here's that. 00:13:59.704 --> 00:14:02.884 Version of being emotionally immature, but with this desire for 00:14:02.884 --> 00:14:06.094 growth, He usually myth when they might be wrong, even about a memory. 00:14:06.724 --> 00:14:09.004 But the narcissist or the incredibly emotionally mature, 00:14:09.004 --> 00:14:10.264 just can't their fragile ego. 00:14:10.264 --> 00:14:10.744 Won't let them. 00:14:11.194 --> 00:14:12.244 So they stick to that story. 00:14:12.244 --> 00:14:14.134 You, no matter what, because in their minds, it's the only 00:14:14.134 --> 00:14:14.914 way things could have happened. 00:14:15.414 --> 00:14:18.954 anD while I know from my work over the past, nearly two decades with, 00:14:19.014 --> 00:14:22.464 especially the population that I'm, I am fortunate enough to work with that. 00:14:22.464 --> 00:14:26.004 There are people who truly do not appear to be capable of change. 00:14:26.814 --> 00:14:29.424 And that's a eight bless their heart. 00:14:29.424 --> 00:14:32.154 If that is that deep buried from childhood, that that's the way 00:14:32.154 --> 00:14:34.194 that they feel that they have to show up in the world in order. 00:14:34.524 --> 00:14:35.604 To be okay. 00:14:35.904 --> 00:14:38.364 That's where you can start to acknowledge a bit of empathy. 00:14:38.754 --> 00:14:41.304 For the person in that situation that doesn't mean you have to continually 00:14:41.304 --> 00:14:45.744 put yourself in a position with that person where they can emotionally, 00:14:46.104 --> 00:14:49.914 physically, financially, religiously, verbally, anything abuse you. 00:14:50.424 --> 00:14:54.264 Because this is your job is to figure out how you show up in the relationship. 00:14:55.044 --> 00:15:00.171 Because what can be really difficult is I know that fine line, that somewhere there. 00:15:00.531 --> 00:15:04.141 Where the more that one person tries to improve the relationship. 00:15:04.941 --> 00:15:09.051 That then when someone is incredibly emotionally mature or into that 00:15:09.081 --> 00:15:10.851 narcissistic personality disorder world. 00:15:11.271 --> 00:15:13.941 Where then not only does it not. 00:15:14.541 --> 00:15:17.391 Even begin to slightly change the relationship for what 00:15:17.391 --> 00:15:18.861 could be even argued is better. 00:15:19.341 --> 00:15:20.361 Even a tiny bit better. 00:15:20.431 --> 00:15:22.951 No, the more that the aware person. 00:15:23.731 --> 00:15:25.711 Is trying to improve the relationship. 00:15:26.201 --> 00:15:27.881 I'm beginning to call it this attack surface. 00:15:27.881 --> 00:15:30.821 The more that they're providing this attack surface for the emotionally 00:15:30.821 --> 00:15:32.441 immature, the narcissistic person. 00:15:32.774 --> 00:15:36.854 more , that person will then take the information from the pathologically kind. 00:15:37.304 --> 00:15:40.394 And then it's as if subconsciously they know, I know what to do with this. 00:15:40.524 --> 00:15:42.084 I need to take the one up position here. 00:15:42.114 --> 00:15:44.184 And so I'm going to disagree with them. 00:15:44.214 --> 00:15:45.804 I'm going to tell them that really isn't how it worked. 00:15:45.804 --> 00:15:47.754 I'm going to question their memory and all these things that 00:15:47.754 --> 00:15:48.894 are just happening in real time. 00:15:49.694 --> 00:15:51.234 , the more that the more. 00:15:51.554 --> 00:15:54.044 Emotionally mature person tries to improve the relationship. 00:15:54.104 --> 00:15:57.104 Then the more that, that emotionally immature person or we're talking 00:15:57.104 --> 00:15:59.294 full blown, Narcisse actually takes whatever their partner says 00:15:59.594 --> 00:16:00.614 and runs it through their own. 00:16:00.674 --> 00:16:01.934 I don't know, manipulation machine. 00:16:02.434 --> 00:16:04.714 You hand them your thoughts and then they say, thank you very much. 00:16:04.774 --> 00:16:05.704 This is the food. 00:16:05.764 --> 00:16:07.224 This is the energy that I need. 00:16:07.704 --> 00:16:10.164 To know that I exist now, watch me work. 00:16:10.704 --> 00:16:12.054 Why should we take your vulnerabilities? 00:16:12.054 --> 00:16:14.544 Watch me take your insecurities and make them seem insignificant. 00:16:14.904 --> 00:16:17.244 And then even use them against you at some point down the 00:16:17.244 --> 00:16:18.654 road when I'm really hurting. 00:16:19.194 --> 00:16:21.864 Which is why this relationship dance is so difficult. 00:16:22.294 --> 00:16:25.084 Am I dealing with an emotionally immature person and interacting with 00:16:25.084 --> 00:16:26.734 them helps me learn more about myself. 00:16:27.064 --> 00:16:29.254 And there's some positive movement in the relationship. 00:16:29.734 --> 00:16:33.424 Or is my visceral or gut reactions sending me signals loud and clear. 00:16:33.774 --> 00:16:34.524 Hello, anxiety. 00:16:34.614 --> 00:16:36.474 Hello, chronic pain, tummy troubles. 00:16:36.774 --> 00:16:39.744 I know, I know, but I think they might not actually be that bad to deal with. 00:16:39.924 --> 00:16:43.484 Now that I have this new information only to find two minutes later walking back 00:16:43.514 --> 00:16:46.094 out of a conversation with your partner, thinking what the heck just happened. 00:16:46.724 --> 00:16:49.644 Or I'm now my heart rate's elevated or go back to that frontier pie 00:16:49.644 --> 00:16:51.864 story where I'm going to lose the contents of whatever I ate. 00:16:52.664 --> 00:16:55.784 But that's where in that moment, you're even thinking, I don't even 00:16:55.784 --> 00:16:58.274 know what was even said, but before I knew it, I was offering him a hug. 00:16:58.664 --> 00:17:01.274 I was apologizing helping them plan a weekend getaway with their friend. 00:17:01.274 --> 00:17:04.814 And I believe I just committed to watching our kids, his friends, kids, 00:17:05.084 --> 00:17:06.644 some neighbor kid who just walked by. 00:17:06.674 --> 00:17:07.754 I'm watching him too. 00:17:08.234 --> 00:17:11.534 So anyway, if you are listening to this, you know, that the struggle is 00:17:11.534 --> 00:17:14.824 real, whether it's the struggle of waking up to the narcissism or the 00:17:14.824 --> 00:17:18.274 emotional immaturity of your partner or your family, your boss, your church, 00:17:18.274 --> 00:17:21.664 or waking up to the narcissism or emotional immaturity of yourself. 00:17:22.294 --> 00:17:24.694 And that is why information is powerful. 00:17:24.904 --> 00:17:29.074 It can help change the way that you show up for you in a relationship, or it can 00:17:29.074 --> 00:17:34.474 help you learn how to have the tools to feel good about doing everything you 00:17:34.474 --> 00:17:37.384 could do before you make that choice to leave an unhealthy relationship. 00:17:37.834 --> 00:17:41.434 Which has the potential to positively change the dynamic in 00:17:41.434 --> 00:17:44.884 your family system for generations to come because we basically meet. 00:17:45.184 --> 00:17:47.554 And get together with somebody who is somewhat , similarly 00:17:47.554 --> 00:17:48.724 differentiated as we are. 00:17:49.304 --> 00:17:53.294 Somebody who's experienced a similar form of trauma of life experience. 00:17:53.344 --> 00:17:55.734 If you listen to my episode, a couple of weeks ago, I talked about the 00:17:55.764 --> 00:17:58.914 similar origin story of the emotionally immature and the pathologically kind. 00:17:59.304 --> 00:18:01.554 It's just at some point there was a fork in the road. 00:18:01.914 --> 00:18:05.484 That the two parted ways only to find each other again, in the glory of their 00:18:05.484 --> 00:18:07.194 attachment wounds and insecurities. 00:18:07.704 --> 00:18:11.034 And because of that, I really do believe that in the best case scenario, with 00:18:11.034 --> 00:18:14.694 the right tools self-reflection and eventual vulnerability, we can heal 00:18:14.694 --> 00:18:16.674 within our relationships after all. 00:18:16.734 --> 00:18:19.584 It's not just the emotionally mature that needs another human to interact with. 00:18:19.914 --> 00:18:20.874 To know that they exist. 00:18:20.874 --> 00:18:22.074 It's all of us for a time. 00:18:22.794 --> 00:18:26.154 But the hope is that as one becomes more emotionally intelligent, 00:18:26.214 --> 00:18:27.414 more emotionally mature. 00:18:27.744 --> 00:18:30.654 That they'll move away from that need for another person. 00:18:31.644 --> 00:18:34.584 Find themselves and then choose to be with another person. 00:18:35.244 --> 00:18:40.374 Who is now also similarly differentiated and has already chosen themselves as well. 00:18:40.944 --> 00:18:45.164 And now the two of you are choosing to be together, not trying to manage each 00:18:45.164 --> 00:18:46.934 other's emotions or manipulate each other. 00:18:47.354 --> 00:18:50.334 Or not trying to just take this one up position. 00:18:50.334 --> 00:18:54.264 And is now having an amazing, beautiful, shared experience of life. 00:18:54.344 --> 00:19:00.074 What was it that I prepared for and I didn't get to in the Stephen Craig show. 00:19:00.624 --> 00:19:02.274 Actually before that, let me do this. 00:19:02.274 --> 00:19:04.834 Let me insert a commercial for, the work I'm doing. 00:19:04.894 --> 00:19:07.474 If you're interested in improving yourself, your relationships 00:19:07.824 --> 00:19:09.444 please reach out to me right away. 00:19:09.574 --> 00:19:12.934 The, you know, the time is near for the updated release of my magnetic marriage 00:19:12.964 --> 00:19:14.524 course or get on the waiting list today. 00:19:14.554 --> 00:19:18.304 And if you like what I share, if you are familiar with the content that I 00:19:18.304 --> 00:19:19.744 create, and it does resonate with you. 00:19:20.074 --> 00:19:20.704 And you need help. 00:19:21.344 --> 00:19:22.124 I might be able to help. 00:19:22.184 --> 00:19:25.064 I know that navigating relationships and how you show up in them. 00:19:25.064 --> 00:19:27.014 And the relationship itself is very difficult. 00:19:27.434 --> 00:19:30.044 And quite frankly, navigating your own reactions and your own 00:19:30.044 --> 00:19:31.304 emotions are tricky as well. 00:19:31.634 --> 00:19:34.064 And I really am noticing more and more. 00:19:34.154 --> 00:19:37.784 This isn't a stage to add, but it's something I'm just really noticing that 00:19:37.784 --> 00:19:40.424 go into the wrong coach or the wrong therapist can actually make things worse. 00:19:40.974 --> 00:19:43.134 I recently talked to somebody who's dealing with some relationship 00:19:43.134 --> 00:19:46.074 trauma, some complex post traumatic stress disorder, working hard, and 00:19:46.074 --> 00:19:48.354 self-soothing putting some distance from their partner in hopes of 00:19:48.354 --> 00:19:49.784 calming their central nervous system. 00:19:49.784 --> 00:19:50.354 And they told me that. 00:19:50.724 --> 00:19:54.054 They had not too long ago, gone to a couples coach who was all about 00:19:54.294 --> 00:19:57.054 hugging it out, expressing admiration for each other, letting each other 00:19:57.054 --> 00:19:58.254 know we're going to get through this. 00:19:58.764 --> 00:20:02.124 Which the emotionally immature partner was on board with, they ate it up. 00:20:02.214 --> 00:20:05.394 But this person said I was literally being asked to betray my own body, 00:20:05.424 --> 00:20:08.184 my own self, and I was pressured to do so in front of the person 00:20:08.184 --> 00:20:10.464 who will now, no doubt weaponize that at some point in the future. 00:20:10.964 --> 00:20:12.134 You didn't do what our coach said to do. 00:20:12.254 --> 00:20:12.824 I was willing. 00:20:13.484 --> 00:20:15.704 So reach out to me and let me know your story. 00:20:15.824 --> 00:20:18.404 And I might have some availability depending on the situation scheduling. 00:20:18.434 --> 00:20:20.834 And of course there's a cost to, to get help. 00:20:21.434 --> 00:20:25.784 But I would also like to answer your questions or maybe give some, we'll call 00:20:25.814 --> 00:20:29.714 it advice from all that I can learn from an email, but if you really do want to 00:20:29.714 --> 00:20:32.114 share your story, and I think it can be therapeutic to share that as well. 00:20:32.624 --> 00:20:33.104 But let me know. 00:20:33.224 --> 00:20:35.984 And I also have my private women's Facebook group, my new 00:20:35.984 --> 00:20:38.504 men's emotional architects group, helping men become more emotionally 00:20:38.504 --> 00:20:40.304 mature, consistent, and confident. 00:20:40.461 --> 00:20:40.641 Okay. 00:20:40.641 --> 00:20:44.891 So here's the info that I did not get to in the Steph and Craig show because 00:20:45.221 --> 00:20:47.201 of the wonderful flow in that interview. 00:20:47.331 --> 00:20:50.361 But I prepared a narrative and it was describing how three 00:20:50.391 --> 00:20:52.551 different types of people would show up in a particular situation. 00:20:52.551 --> 00:20:55.191 Because I believe when they initially inquired, they were asking me about. 00:20:55.462 --> 00:20:58.312 The difference between narcissists and emotionally immature people. 00:20:58.622 --> 00:21:00.602 Then I added a third person in there and that is the person 00:21:00.632 --> 00:21:02.102 suffering from nice guy syndrome. 00:21:02.642 --> 00:21:06.002 And the similarities I think are they're fascinating, but then the differences 00:21:06.002 --> 00:21:11.606 are slight in some cases, but those differences can make a huge difference in 00:21:11.606 --> 00:21:14.666 how one interacts with these individuals or how it shows up what it looks like. 00:21:14.906 --> 00:21:15.776 Out in the real world. 00:21:16.146 --> 00:21:19.716 So a narcissist and emotionally immature person and a nice guy. 00:21:20.346 --> 00:21:21.156 Walk into a bar. 00:21:21.966 --> 00:21:23.196 We're not a bar actually. 00:21:23.556 --> 00:21:25.116 You kind of can't resist that the same way. 00:21:25.146 --> 00:21:28.476 If you get a cadence going of something, something, and something like lions, 00:21:28.476 --> 00:21:31.236 tigers, and bears, hopefully when you're listening, you just said, oh my. 00:21:31.786 --> 00:21:34.366 But a narcissist and emotionally mature person and a nice guy. 00:21:34.846 --> 00:21:38.776 They're actually the same person and just, we're going to call that person, Mike. 00:21:39.196 --> 00:21:43.216 And he and his wife, Sarah just arrived in New York city for the anniversary trip. 00:21:43.756 --> 00:21:45.376 And they'd never been to the city before and they're trying to 00:21:45.376 --> 00:21:48.226 find their way to their hotel and it is in downtown Manhattan and 00:21:48.226 --> 00:21:49.546 they're coming from the airport. 00:21:49.906 --> 00:21:53.206 . But with the bustling streets, the towering buildings, everything 00:21:53.206 --> 00:21:54.436 feels a little bit overwhelming. 00:21:54.646 --> 00:21:57.496 So here's how that scenario might play out with these 00:21:57.496 --> 00:21:58.996 different husband personalities. 00:21:59.356 --> 00:22:00.496 Nice guy syndrome, mic. 00:22:00.806 --> 00:22:03.896 In this scenario, Mike is visibly anxious as they exit the taxi. 00:22:04.346 --> 00:22:06.206 Oh, no, I think I gave the driver the wrong address. 00:22:06.206 --> 00:22:08.456 I am so sorry, Sarah, let me ask the person for directions. 00:22:08.696 --> 00:22:10.016 And he approaches the passer by eight. 00:22:10.016 --> 00:22:10.586 Excuse me. 00:22:10.586 --> 00:22:13.586 I am so sorry to bug you, but is there any chance you could help us? 00:22:13.586 --> 00:22:14.336 It's our anniversary. 00:22:14.336 --> 00:22:16.376 I really don't want to ruin it by getting us lost. 00:22:16.646 --> 00:22:18.956 So then after getting directions, then Mike turns to Sarah, 00:22:19.136 --> 00:22:20.156 Hey, is this okay with you? 00:22:20.156 --> 00:22:20.666 Are you cool? 00:22:20.846 --> 00:22:23.576 Uh, I don't know if I asked somebody else as well. 00:22:23.576 --> 00:22:26.486 Cause I'm really not that sure of what to do from here. 00:22:26.786 --> 00:22:30.296 I mean, or do you just want to figure it out or do you just want to start walking? 00:22:30.326 --> 00:22:31.586 I dunno what would make you happy? 00:22:32.336 --> 00:22:34.916 So that is nice guy syndrome, Mike. 00:22:35.246 --> 00:22:37.436 Emotionally immature, Mike Mike confidently. 00:22:37.496 --> 00:22:38.486 We'd Sarah down the street. 00:22:38.696 --> 00:22:39.716 Hey, I've totally got this. 00:22:39.776 --> 00:22:41.186 It's a, it's just a few blocks away. 00:22:41.666 --> 00:22:44.816 And after walking for about 20 minutes, then emotionally immature, 00:22:44.816 --> 00:22:48.686 Mike realizes they're lost, but he is not about to admit it. 00:22:48.716 --> 00:22:50.576 I don't even know if he'll admit to himself that they're lost. 00:22:50.936 --> 00:22:51.866 But he starts to feel uncomfortable. 00:22:51.896 --> 00:22:54.966 So when Sarah starts to notice this discomfort. 00:22:55.446 --> 00:22:57.186 And then says, Hey , should we check the map? 00:22:57.666 --> 00:22:59.676 Here's where emotionally immature Mike snaps. 00:22:59.746 --> 00:23:00.526 Why don't you trust me? 00:23:00.526 --> 00:23:01.576 Like, I can figure this out. 00:23:01.726 --> 00:23:02.356 This is a. 00:23:02.746 --> 00:23:03.286 It's easy. 00:23:03.316 --> 00:23:04.246 It's just another city. 00:23:04.726 --> 00:23:08.086 So then a few minutes later when he realizes, oh my gosh, we're late. 00:23:08.186 --> 00:23:09.776 We're gonna miss check-in time. 00:23:09.986 --> 00:23:11.156 We're going to dinner reservations. 00:23:11.606 --> 00:23:14.756 Then he slumps up against the wall and he's like, man, I am such an idiot. 00:23:14.786 --> 00:23:15.896 I can't even find her hotel. 00:23:16.376 --> 00:23:18.236 You know, you probably wish you married somebody smarter. 00:23:18.866 --> 00:23:23.756 That's where emotionally immature Mike is wanting her to then go from this place 00:23:23.756 --> 00:23:26.066 of just trust me to then now comfort me. 00:23:26.846 --> 00:23:30.476 And then we have narcissistic mic, Mike strides purposely down the street. 00:23:30.656 --> 00:23:32.786 He's ignoring Sarah suggestions to check out the map. 00:23:33.116 --> 00:23:35.216 And after walking in circles for about an hour, they end up. 00:23:35.516 --> 00:23:36.296 Back where they started. 00:23:36.296 --> 00:23:38.786 Mike's declare C told you I'd bring us right here. 00:23:38.786 --> 00:23:41.816 This is exactly where I want us to be, because I just thought it would be smart. 00:23:41.816 --> 00:23:42.266 First. 00:23:42.296 --> 00:23:43.526 I want to go on a tour of the neighborhood. 00:23:44.066 --> 00:23:46.816 And actually you didn't really say much about that. 00:23:47.006 --> 00:23:49.556 And I think you should be thanking me because look where I got us 00:23:49.616 --> 00:23:50.516 right back to where we were. 00:23:50.566 --> 00:23:52.216 Those are some really good navigation skills. 00:23:52.216 --> 00:23:54.916 Matter of fact, you know, that I have a keen sense of direction. 00:23:55.546 --> 00:23:58.066 If you seem upset, it's not my fault that you didn't understand 00:23:58.096 --> 00:23:59.056 my plan from the beginning. 00:23:59.596 --> 00:24:02.276 And let me just pause for a minute, because there was some episodes in 00:24:02.276 --> 00:24:05.516 the past where I'll share what a healthy version of some, something 00:24:05.516 --> 00:24:06.866 relationship related will look like. 00:24:07.346 --> 00:24:09.326 And admittedly, I will have a little bit of fun with it. 00:24:09.446 --> 00:24:12.796 Then the, the perfect scene will eventually be interrupted by a sudden 00:24:12.826 --> 00:24:16.996 appearance of a rainbow and wait, is that a, I can just make it out. 00:24:17.296 --> 00:24:20.416 I'll be darn if that's not a unicorn horn and that's that the lucky terms 00:24:20.416 --> 00:24:21.886 guy only, I don't think he's a. 00:24:22.246 --> 00:24:25.996 I know you slept in a bag of sugary glycaemic coma, inducing marshmallows. 00:24:26.266 --> 00:24:26.716 Oh, no. 00:24:27.076 --> 00:24:28.486 That is a pot of gold. 00:24:29.056 --> 00:24:32.686 So while I'm attempting to use humor, because I really do feel sad when 00:24:32.686 --> 00:24:35.806 I think about people who spend so much time questioning themselves and 00:24:35.806 --> 00:24:38.836 their role and negative relationship dynamics when they happen to be in 00:24:38.836 --> 00:24:40.816 relationships with the truly immature. 00:24:41.336 --> 00:24:43.616 If you've been in relationships with nice guys, emotionally 00:24:43.616 --> 00:24:44.906 immature partners or narcissists. 00:24:45.356 --> 00:24:48.776 Oh, my, the idea of a confident, grounded partner who communicates 00:24:48.776 --> 00:24:52.596 clearly and values your input might seem like a fantasy. 00:24:53.176 --> 00:24:56.386 For a lot of people, The healthy relationships in general, 00:24:56.386 --> 00:24:57.766 it might just seem rare. 00:24:57.796 --> 00:24:58.636 Unbelievable. 00:24:59.236 --> 00:25:01.816 And just as unbelievable as those mythical creatures, like the 00:25:01.816 --> 00:25:03.736 unicorn and the lucky terms guy. 00:25:04.396 --> 00:25:07.396 So many of you have become accustomed to the dysfunction. 00:25:07.576 --> 00:25:11.656 At that functionality in a relationship just appears too good to be true. 00:25:11.956 --> 00:25:12.736 And I get that. 00:25:12.736 --> 00:25:15.396 I can sense that when I'm talking to somebody and I've noticed that 00:25:15.396 --> 00:25:17.916 when I've laid out what the four pillars of a connected conversation 00:25:17.916 --> 00:25:21.396 would look like in real life, where I think the person is saying in that 00:25:21.486 --> 00:25:23.556 in their mind, Where's the unicorn. 00:25:23.826 --> 00:25:25.656 And am I having this conversation with the leprechaun? 00:25:25.686 --> 00:25:26.646 And when do I get the gold? 00:25:27.006 --> 00:25:29.466 Because it does seem too good to be true, especially if you've never seen 00:25:29.466 --> 00:25:32.466 it experienced that, or definitely didn't see a model than your childhood. 00:25:33.016 --> 00:25:35.896 It's like , when one is eating prison food for a long time and they 00:25:35.896 --> 00:25:40.336 first step on the outside and if they first place they go is a burger king, 00:25:40.336 --> 00:25:41.356 suddenly they're like, oh my gosh. 00:25:41.896 --> 00:25:43.066 I want to get this king of burgers. 00:25:43.066 --> 00:25:44.146 I want to compliment them on this. 00:25:44.386 --> 00:25:45.556 This incredible creation. 00:25:45.586 --> 00:25:47.356 That genuinely is a Whopper. 00:25:47.386 --> 00:25:48.436 If I do say so myself. 00:25:48.896 --> 00:25:51.986 Please pass along my compliments to the sous chef on how he made 00:25:51.986 --> 00:25:53.006 these fries out of chicken. 00:25:53.426 --> 00:25:56.066 I can only imagine that he must have studied at the Sorbonne. 00:25:56.316 --> 00:25:59.916 But, um, I'm here to tell you that these healthy dynamics do exist. 00:26:00.036 --> 00:26:02.736 They're not a myth and they're not reserved for other people. 00:26:03.246 --> 00:26:06.516 . I want to share more of these examples, not just to taunt 00:26:06.516 --> 00:26:09.546 somebody with an impossible dream, but to show you what's possible. 00:26:09.576 --> 00:26:14.076 Because when I go down my list of things to do, to be healthy and interacting with 00:26:14.076 --> 00:26:17.826 somebody who was emotionally immature to figure out your self and how you show up. 00:26:18.156 --> 00:26:19.926 My first one is raise your emotional baseline. 00:26:19.956 --> 00:26:21.456 That self care is not selfish. 00:26:21.726 --> 00:26:24.906 If anybody's new here, then number two is get your PhD in gaslighting. 00:26:25.206 --> 00:26:27.306 Number three is getting out of unproductive conversations. 00:26:27.306 --> 00:26:30.096 Four is setting boundaries and know that a boundary is going to be a 00:26:30.096 --> 00:26:33.126 challenge to the narcissist or the emotional immature in your life. 00:26:33.516 --> 00:26:35.856 And then a side note there that learned the difference between 00:26:35.856 --> 00:26:37.206 a boundary and an ultimatum. 00:26:37.236 --> 00:26:39.996 The ultimatum is you need to stop doing that because the narcissist 00:26:39.996 --> 00:26:42.246 is oh, thank you for showing me what I need to do more of than if 00:26:42.246 --> 00:26:43.716 I want to manipulate or control. 00:26:43.986 --> 00:26:47.856 But the boundary is, if you do this, then I will fill in the blank, leave. 00:26:48.046 --> 00:26:48.706 Those sorts of things. 00:26:49.216 --> 00:26:52.726 And then the last one is you'll never give that person the aha moment or the 00:26:52.726 --> 00:26:54.526 epiphany that needs to come from them. 00:26:55.366 --> 00:26:59.176 And I feel like today is turning out to be a little bit of a popery of just a 00:26:59.176 --> 00:27:00.676 lot of things that have been on my mind. 00:27:00.946 --> 00:27:04.276 In that world of I'll never give them the aha moment or the epiphany. 00:27:04.606 --> 00:27:05.686 If you've caught some of the. 00:27:06.196 --> 00:27:10.096 The vibes on waking up to narcism or on the virtual couch around. 00:27:10.846 --> 00:27:14.256 Differentiation of being able to learn about yourself in a relationship to be 00:27:14.256 --> 00:27:18.036 able to hold onto your self while trying to develop this connection with another 00:27:18.036 --> 00:27:23.516 person, then there is a version where once you know that you've set the boundary. 00:27:23.966 --> 00:27:27.116 And you know that you're not trying to get this person to have the 00:27:27.116 --> 00:27:29.376 aha moment that it can be okay. 00:27:30.156 --> 00:27:32.796 And we'll check in with your body, your central nervous system, because 00:27:32.796 --> 00:27:36.686 it's keeping the score, but it's okay then to bring things up or say things 00:27:36.686 --> 00:27:38.246 because they're the right things to say. 00:27:38.666 --> 00:27:43.146 If if Hey stop yelling at the kids, if you know , you are operating from a 00:27:43.146 --> 00:27:45.756 place from integrity and that you would feel like you were betraying yourself. 00:27:45.786 --> 00:27:47.496 If you weren't saying those things. 00:27:47.886 --> 00:27:50.586 Then right now, I just want to bring a little bit of awareness to that. 00:27:50.586 --> 00:27:51.846 So if I realize, okay. 00:27:52.266 --> 00:27:53.166 I've set the boundary. 00:27:53.196 --> 00:27:56.016 If you yell at the kids, then we're gonna, we're gonna take off. 00:27:56.076 --> 00:27:57.786 We're gonna spend some time away from the home. 00:27:58.476 --> 00:28:00.156 And then you're not saying that. 00:28:00.656 --> 00:28:03.626 I, Hey, I need you to stop yelling at the kids because you're trying to manipulate 00:28:03.626 --> 00:28:06.326 course control or just get validation, but it's the right thing to say. 00:28:06.686 --> 00:28:08.246 Then I just wanna bring a little bit of awareness to that. 00:28:08.276 --> 00:28:10.526 We're going to start looking at what does that look like if you are. 00:28:10.856 --> 00:28:14.546 If you are in a position where you can, self-soothe where you don't 00:28:14.546 --> 00:28:15.566 need somebody else to tell you. 00:28:15.566 --> 00:28:16.196 It's okay. 00:28:16.526 --> 00:28:18.356 That you are starting to feel like you're okay. 00:28:18.746 --> 00:28:22.136 Then you'll probably find yourself wanting to express things and you'll 00:28:22.136 --> 00:28:24.926 be aware cause I've worked with plenty of people who get to this 00:28:24.926 --> 00:28:26.516 point and they say, is this okay? 00:28:26.846 --> 00:28:31.646 But they're aware that they want to still express themselves because that's 00:28:31.646 --> 00:28:32.636 something that they haven't done. 00:28:33.436 --> 00:28:36.586 And the fact that they haven't done that at times, they have felt like 00:28:36.586 --> 00:28:38.836 they've been betraying themselves, or they might've felt like they've 00:28:38.836 --> 00:28:43.676 been not showing a good example for their kids or for those around them. 00:28:44.016 --> 00:28:46.946 . It takes a lot of work to get to that place where . You can self-sooth or you 00:28:46.946 --> 00:28:50.126 can calm yourself down where you aren't doing this from a place of needing 00:28:50.126 --> 00:28:51.986 validation, needing him to understand. 00:28:52.436 --> 00:28:54.686 I need to do this because it's the right thing to do. 00:28:55.136 --> 00:28:57.386 But I do slightly digress there. 00:28:57.756 --> 00:29:01.146 , I'm sharing these examples, not to just say, Hey, here's something you've 00:29:01.176 --> 00:29:03.066 never had, but that goes back to that. 00:29:03.756 --> 00:29:07.146 That first concept that I talked about with raising your emotional baseline. 00:29:07.196 --> 00:29:10.166 Self care doesn't have to mean getting a Manny petty, running a 00:29:10.166 --> 00:29:11.366 marathon or anything like that. 00:29:11.366 --> 00:29:12.026 Although those are great. 00:29:12.566 --> 00:29:16.316 But it can just be starting to be aware, starting to hope, starting 00:29:16.316 --> 00:29:20.246 to dream, starting to recognize, starting to practice some things in 00:29:20.246 --> 00:29:23.036 situations where people are safe, where you're able to express yourself. 00:29:23.586 --> 00:29:27.736 Because , there's such a, . Empowering feeling when you start to have the tools, 00:29:28.126 --> 00:29:31.636 but then I know it can be, it can feel frustrating when you try to use them. 00:29:32.296 --> 00:29:35.926 In the same situations and they're not being accepted or 00:29:35.926 --> 00:29:37.036 they're not being met well. 00:29:37.036 --> 00:29:40.876 Once you, you can see the difference in the way that a healthy 00:29:40.876 --> 00:29:43.066 relationship even would look or sound. 00:29:43.426 --> 00:29:47.266 I think you can really start to believe in the possibility of you being in 00:29:47.266 --> 00:29:48.946 better relationships, whether it is. 00:29:49.396 --> 00:29:51.256 Fixing working on your current relationship. 00:29:51.586 --> 00:29:54.286 Or that I actually deserve to be in a relationship where 00:29:54.286 --> 00:29:55.576 I feel heard and understood. 00:29:55.786 --> 00:29:57.526 And there's curiosity, such a big one. 00:29:58.196 --> 00:30:01.166 , that belief is the first step toward creating change in your life. 00:30:01.166 --> 00:30:05.066 So yes, a healthy relationship may appear as rare as a unicorn. 00:30:05.516 --> 00:30:08.996 But remember just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean 00:30:09.056 --> 00:30:10.946 necessarily that it doesn't exist. 00:30:11.346 --> 00:30:16.176 It's out there, it's in with awareness and work and the right partner showing up. 00:30:16.206 --> 00:30:18.996 Or if you are showing up in the best version of you kind of way, 00:30:19.356 --> 00:30:21.786 It's something that you can get to as well, something you can achieve. 00:30:22.479 --> 00:30:23.259 So here we go. 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:25.929 I am introducing to you for the first time ever. 00:30:25.989 --> 00:30:29.049 Something that I believe I will continue to call. 00:30:29.529 --> 00:30:30.819 The magic connection. 00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:32.469 And I'm not talking about pulling rabbits out of hats. 00:30:32.949 --> 00:30:35.889 But what I want to describe might seem as unbelievable. 00:30:36.429 --> 00:30:38.469 If you've never experienced because the magic. 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:39.579 Stands for. 00:30:39.939 --> 00:30:40.509 Mature. 00:30:40.749 --> 00:30:43.059 Authentic grounded, intimate and compassionate. 00:30:43.689 --> 00:30:46.839 Because that is the kind of relationship that might seem as rare as finding 00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:47.919 the unicorn in your backyard. 00:30:48.159 --> 00:30:51.339 But this is the one that I want to show more examples of and it 00:30:51.339 --> 00:30:52.569 goes back to why is it important? 00:30:52.959 --> 00:30:55.569 'cause you can't really aim for something that you don't know exists. 00:30:55.989 --> 00:30:58.359 If you've ever seen or experienced a healthy relationship, you might not 00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:00.279 realize what it is that it looks like. 00:31:00.879 --> 00:31:01.989 And it's that classic. 00:31:01.989 --> 00:31:05.979 You don't know what you don't know situation, and I'm not saying that 00:31:05.979 --> 00:31:09.369 just because you're now aware of what this magic connection looks like. 00:31:09.969 --> 00:31:12.819 Again, that's mature, authentic, grounded, and to make compassionate. 00:31:13.479 --> 00:31:16.089 It's I know that you will not all of a sudden have one. 00:31:16.269 --> 00:31:17.079 It's not that simple. 00:31:17.709 --> 00:31:20.139 Because you'll most likely have to implement these qualities. 00:31:20.939 --> 00:31:24.559 On yourself, it treating yourself with those same characteristics. 00:31:24.869 --> 00:31:27.599 But it's understanding what's possible because that does allow 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:28.829 you to dream bigger for yourself. 00:31:28.829 --> 00:31:31.229 Helps you recognize when something isn't necessarily working. 00:31:31.439 --> 00:31:34.049 Almost gives you this north star to navigate toward. 00:31:34.479 --> 00:31:36.849 And hopefully it reminds you you're deserving of a relationship. 00:31:36.879 --> 00:31:37.509 This mature. 00:31:37.719 --> 00:31:38.949 Authentic grounded, intimate. 00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:40.779 And compassionate. 00:31:40.929 --> 00:31:46.329 So without further ado, We'll go back to the situation, Mike grounded, Mike. 00:31:46.449 --> 00:31:48.849 And now let me introduce you to magic. 00:31:49.179 --> 00:31:51.309 I'm just now realizing that is already taken. 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:52.689 The name of magic Mike. 00:31:52.689 --> 00:31:57.759 Anyway, this is the magic version of the Mike that we talked about earlier. 00:31:58.309 --> 00:31:59.209 They exit the taxi. 00:31:59.689 --> 00:32:02.329 Mike takes a moment to orient himself, pulls out the map and his 00:32:02.329 --> 00:32:04.219 phone turns to Sarah with a calm. 00:32:04.482 --> 00:32:05.442 , grounded smile. 00:32:05.772 --> 00:32:07.032 All right, let's get her bearings. 00:32:07.062 --> 00:32:09.132 According to the mapper, hotels should be about 10 blocks north. 00:32:09.462 --> 00:32:10.482 Three blocks east from here. 00:32:10.572 --> 00:32:13.072 I'm pretty sure I can navigate us there, but I would love it if 00:32:13.102 --> 00:32:14.032 we could work together on this. 00:32:14.092 --> 00:32:14.902 Are you okay? 00:32:14.902 --> 00:32:17.872 Maybe keeping an eye out for street signs, I'll focus on the overall direction. 00:32:18.472 --> 00:32:19.342 And Sarah's fine. 00:32:19.342 --> 00:32:20.032 She nods in agreement. 00:32:20.032 --> 00:32:23.212 They start walking a few blocks in Mike realizes he has taken a wrong turn. 00:32:23.572 --> 00:32:27.082 It's like, Hey, I think I might've missed a turn back there, but no worries. 00:32:27.132 --> 00:32:29.142 Let's go backtrack and we can reassess. 00:32:29.762 --> 00:32:30.212 Calm. 00:32:30.602 --> 00:32:31.502 Be grounded. 00:32:31.922 --> 00:32:32.492 Safe. 00:32:33.032 --> 00:32:36.102 He calmly consults the map . Cross-referencing with this phone's GPS. 00:32:36.292 --> 00:32:36.952 , okay, I got it. 00:32:36.982 --> 00:32:39.682 I see totally where I went wrong and it's actually quicker than if 00:32:39.682 --> 00:32:40.882 we cut through this street here. 00:32:41.182 --> 00:32:42.082 Are you okay with that? 00:32:42.322 --> 00:32:43.342 Are you comfortable with that route? 00:32:43.342 --> 00:32:44.392 Cause I know this is new. 00:32:44.392 --> 00:32:45.832 It seems like a little bit sketchy. 00:32:46.162 --> 00:32:48.142 Or would you prefer if we stick to the main roads? 00:32:48.662 --> 00:32:51.632 And as they continue walking, Mike remains attentive to the surroundings. 00:32:51.632 --> 00:32:52.792 And he's checking in with Sarah. 00:32:53.332 --> 00:32:56.022 And her comfort level not in an anxiously attached way. 00:32:56.592 --> 00:32:58.062 So I was like, Hey, how are you holding up with the walk? 00:32:58.182 --> 00:33:00.102 If you're getting tired or anything, we can always grab a 00:33:00.102 --> 00:33:01.452 taxi for the rest of the way. 00:33:01.752 --> 00:33:02.442 I am good. 00:33:02.512 --> 00:33:03.502 I'm fine to continue. 00:33:03.872 --> 00:33:07.002 But if you would rather grab a taxi, I am so on board with that. 00:33:07.512 --> 00:33:11.292 And when they finally reached their hotel, Mike turns to Sarah with a warm smile. 00:33:11.652 --> 00:33:12.492 Hey, that was an adventure. 00:33:12.732 --> 00:33:13.812 I appreciate your patience. 00:33:14.092 --> 00:33:15.112 Thanks for help navigating. 00:33:15.172 --> 00:33:16.552 I'm glad we were able to figure it out together. 00:33:16.972 --> 00:33:18.982 Let's go get checked in and start enjoying our anniversary trip. 00:33:19.012 --> 00:33:20.632 I'm looking forward to exploring the city with you. 00:33:21.932 --> 00:33:23.252 . And that's where the unicorn comes out. 00:33:23.252 --> 00:33:26.342 But in that scenario, Mike demonstrates confidence in his abilities 00:33:26.342 --> 00:33:30.422 without being arrogant, openness to collaboration, valuing Sarah's input, 00:33:30.452 --> 00:33:35.042 calm problem solving when faced with a setback, calm that grounded 00:33:35.042 --> 00:33:38.312 response, clear communication about his thoughts and plans consideration 00:33:38.312 --> 00:33:39.482 for her comfort and preferences. 00:33:39.722 --> 00:33:43.112 Now, again, he's putting it out there and it is at that point up to Sarah. 00:33:43.442 --> 00:33:45.032 To say, yeah, I'm kind of exhausted. 00:33:45.032 --> 00:33:46.232 I think I'd like to take a taxi. 00:33:46.472 --> 00:33:48.092 He has made that bid or that offer. 00:33:48.402 --> 00:33:51.912 The ability to admit and correct mistakes, and it can literally sound 00:33:51.912 --> 00:33:53.892 that easy without self-deprecation. 00:33:54.312 --> 00:33:57.522 Maintaining a positive attitude through the challenge expressing appreciation 00:33:57.522 --> 00:34:01.163 for her role in the shared experience, because I think that version shows 00:34:01.193 --> 00:34:04.133 emotional maturity, strong self-awareness healthy relationship dynamics. 00:34:04.493 --> 00:34:07.553 And he was in a position where he was able to confidently. 00:34:07.823 --> 00:34:10.563 Help Problem-solve and this new situation. 00:34:11.063 --> 00:34:14.413 That is what I would love to bring more awareness to this. 00:34:14.413 --> 00:34:17.923 This magical version is magic, mature, authentic, grounded, 00:34:17.923 --> 00:34:19.003 intimate, and compassionate. 00:34:19.803 --> 00:34:22.473 Let's break down the nice guy syndrome, emotional maturity, 00:34:22.503 --> 00:34:24.453 and and also narcissism. 00:34:24.503 --> 00:34:27.443 . So the person with nice guy syndrome tries too hard to follow. 00:34:27.513 --> 00:34:30.453 Everybody's directions and ensure that everybody is happy and nobody's mad at 00:34:30.453 --> 00:34:31.593 them and they haven't put anybody out. 00:34:32.013 --> 00:34:35.133 The emotionally immature person reacts, randomly and insist that they can figure 00:34:35.133 --> 00:34:38.373 out how to get where they're going, even though their partner has the mapper. 00:34:38.533 --> 00:34:40.813 If they have to ask their partner to look at the map, they worried 00:34:40.813 --> 00:34:43.423 that their partner won't think that they are worthy of staying together. 00:34:43.943 --> 00:34:47.603 They react emotionally and impulsively and especially, especially to criticism. 00:34:47.993 --> 00:34:49.703 Because one minute they think that they know where they're 00:34:49.703 --> 00:34:51.383 going and everything is okay. 00:34:51.413 --> 00:34:52.283 Life's fantastic. 00:34:52.283 --> 00:34:54.383 And I think in that moment, they really do feel that way. 00:34:54.923 --> 00:34:56.753 The next, and it can be that quick. 00:34:56.753 --> 00:35:00.113 And I think that's part of that emotional whiplash that happens in the relationship 00:35:00.233 --> 00:35:02.153 because of the emotional inconsistency. 00:35:02.573 --> 00:35:05.243 They realize all of a sudden they don't know where they are and they 00:35:05.243 --> 00:35:06.383 immediately get down on themselves. 00:35:06.383 --> 00:35:07.493 , they're afraid to say. 00:35:07.793 --> 00:35:08.363 Oh, my bad. 00:35:08.723 --> 00:35:09.953 I I thought I knew where we're going now. 00:35:09.953 --> 00:35:10.283 I don't. 00:35:10.973 --> 00:35:14.333 I mean as a person with no really good sense of direction. 00:35:14.663 --> 00:35:15.533 I have embraced it. 00:35:15.533 --> 00:35:16.103 It's okay. 00:35:16.103 --> 00:35:18.383 To not know it goes back to, we don't know what we don't know 00:35:18.383 --> 00:35:19.493 and , why should we be expected? 00:35:19.823 --> 00:35:23.003 To be perfect and everything that we do, especially where we're going. 00:35:23.563 --> 00:35:24.883 Thank you, GPS devices. 00:35:25.453 --> 00:35:27.193 But then the narcissist simply insists. 00:35:27.193 --> 00:35:29.353 They know the way, and they refuse to ask for help and wherever 00:35:29.353 --> 00:35:31.333 they went was precisely where they thought they were going. 00:35:31.363 --> 00:35:32.863 And no, you heard them wrong. 00:35:33.013 --> 00:35:35.653 This was exactly where they said that they were going the entire time. 00:35:35.953 --> 00:35:37.993 And now they're pretty frustrated that you even doubted them. 00:35:38.053 --> 00:35:41.113 And now they can tell you how you never support them and how this was 00:35:41.113 --> 00:35:42.943 once again, a time where they were. 00:35:42.943 --> 00:35:43.243 Right. 00:35:43.273 --> 00:35:43.873 And you were wrong. 00:35:44.203 --> 00:35:47.173 So they were really like for you to apologize. 00:35:47.743 --> 00:35:50.053 And actually that didn't sound like sincere enough of an apology. 00:35:50.683 --> 00:35:52.963 So let's go through the differences narcism. 00:35:53.063 --> 00:35:54.983 Again, narcissism is a personality trait. 00:35:55.043 --> 00:35:58.253 It is a personality story is characterized by an excessive need for admiration 00:35:58.553 --> 00:36:01.313 and inflated sense of self-importance a lack of empathy for others. 00:36:01.673 --> 00:36:05.783 And people with narcissistic personality disorder or strong narcissistic traits and 00:36:05.783 --> 00:36:09.923 tendencies often believe they're superior to others and they expect constant praise. 00:36:09.923 --> 00:36:12.403 It is, . Something that they are deserving of in their mind. 00:36:12.403 --> 00:36:14.083 And they have difficulty accepting criticism. 00:36:14.533 --> 00:36:17.773 And they might exploit other people for their own personal gain and they 00:36:17.773 --> 00:36:21.283 struggle to recognize or respect other people's feelings and needs. 00:36:21.713 --> 00:36:24.173 If we take a look at emotional immaturity, now that starts to refer to 00:36:24.173 --> 00:36:26.213 a person's inability to handle emotions. 00:36:26.753 --> 00:36:28.013 Emotional immaturity, right? 00:36:28.013 --> 00:36:30.863 Emotions in an age, appropriate manner, emotionally mature people. 00:36:31.173 --> 00:36:32.613 They struggle with self regulation. 00:36:32.673 --> 00:36:33.663 They have difficulty. 00:36:33.993 --> 00:36:36.273 I mean, if you look at it like that processing complex emotions 00:36:36.693 --> 00:36:38.423 and like a younger person. 00:36:38.543 --> 00:36:41.093 A little ten-year-old kid and they might react impulsively 00:36:41.093 --> 00:36:43.193 or inappropriately to stress. 00:36:43.613 --> 00:36:45.983 They don't like to sit with that discomfort. 00:36:46.493 --> 00:36:49.163 And if they take ownership with things, they feel like then that you are 00:36:49.163 --> 00:36:50.543 going to go all or nothing on them. 00:36:50.693 --> 00:36:51.593 They are all bad. 00:36:51.623 --> 00:36:52.733 You think you are all good. 00:36:52.793 --> 00:36:53.933 And now that means you're going to leave them. 00:36:54.783 --> 00:36:56.373 They have a real hard time. 00:36:56.673 --> 00:36:58.323 Taking responsibility for their actions. 00:36:58.323 --> 00:37:01.383 And so it's really easy to blame others for their problems. 00:37:01.563 --> 00:37:02.073 Wasn't me. 00:37:02.593 --> 00:37:04.363 It was somebody else and they made me do that. 00:37:04.393 --> 00:37:05.113 I never said that. 00:37:05.383 --> 00:37:07.933 And you know, that drill and the nice guy syndrome, it 00:37:07.933 --> 00:37:09.073 really is a pattern of behavior. 00:37:09.073 --> 00:37:12.343 And it's typically associated with men where they believe that being kind and 00:37:12.343 --> 00:37:13.903 considerate and helpful will lead to. 00:37:14.433 --> 00:37:17.703 Validation appreciation and really it's heavily tied into, 00:37:17.973 --> 00:37:19.503 shall we say romantic successes? 00:37:20.103 --> 00:37:21.723 But what nice guy is. 00:37:22.353 --> 00:37:24.723 Don't even recognize is that they often have these hidden 00:37:24.723 --> 00:37:26.553 expectations, these covert contracts. 00:37:26.973 --> 00:37:29.403 So then they will become resentful when their efforts don't 00:37:29.403 --> 00:37:30.993 result in the desired outcome. 00:37:31.413 --> 00:37:34.173 Be at the romantic success or just validation. 00:37:34.363 --> 00:37:37.963 They may be out there slaying the dragon all day and then be really upset 00:37:37.963 --> 00:37:40.573 that people are outside by the pool. 00:37:40.573 --> 00:37:43.633 Or they have a really nice house and people don't just every 00:37:43.633 --> 00:37:44.793 day that the dad comes home. 00:37:44.793 --> 00:37:46.983 They don't say, man, dad, thanks to you. 00:37:47.043 --> 00:37:49.083 And your hard work, we now have an easy. 00:37:49.633 --> 00:37:51.733 But here's the thing though with nice guy syndrome. 00:37:51.793 --> 00:37:53.863 And I think that this is where you see that tying in a little 00:37:53.863 --> 00:37:56.883 bit to emotional maturity, but they struggle with assertiveness. 00:37:56.983 --> 00:38:00.403 They have difficulty expressing their true feelings and now can put other's needs 00:38:00.403 --> 00:38:02.203 before their own, to an unhealthy degree. 00:38:02.203 --> 00:38:05.193 But so wild about that is that will then manifest as. 00:38:06.003 --> 00:38:09.753 A narcissistic trader tendency because when they are putting themselves. 00:38:10.253 --> 00:38:11.063 And this nice guy. 00:38:11.273 --> 00:38:12.953 Scenario, this nice guy situation. 00:38:13.433 --> 00:38:17.063 They are anticipating or expecting that people should just know people 00:38:17.063 --> 00:38:19.793 should just appreciate them and people should just desire them. 00:38:20.303 --> 00:38:22.943 But they're afraid that if they put that out there that then 00:38:22.943 --> 00:38:24.503 they will seem needy or clingy. 00:38:25.073 --> 00:38:27.563 And there's also a big fear of rejection. 00:38:28.343 --> 00:38:31.673 So while all three people are going to encounter relationship 00:38:31.673 --> 00:38:34.703 difficulties, those underlying issues, that, and the behaviors. 00:38:34.823 --> 00:38:36.773 I think they, they vary pretty considerably. 00:38:37.433 --> 00:38:41.603 So, let me just provide some additional examples, different contexts, things 00:38:41.603 --> 00:38:43.853 around finances, or maybe parenting. 00:38:44.253 --> 00:38:48.003 And I am once again, I want to own the fact that I am currently going 00:38:48.003 --> 00:38:51.363 with the husband and the role of the narcissist or the more emotionally 00:38:51.393 --> 00:38:53.433 mature and the wife as the. 00:38:53.553 --> 00:38:58.833 The less or the more emotionally mature, still emotionally immature to a point. 00:38:58.833 --> 00:38:59.883 That's why they're together. 00:39:00.683 --> 00:39:03.203 And most likely the more pathologically kind. 00:39:03.329 --> 00:39:04.079 Let me give a scenario. 00:39:04.109 --> 00:39:07.859 These are based off of real scenarios, but one about finances. 00:39:07.859 --> 00:39:09.029 This one can be really difficult. 00:39:09.029 --> 00:39:12.659 So when confronted with the need to discuss financial struggles or 00:39:12.659 --> 00:39:15.912 difficulties with his wife, Uh, narcissistic husband might approach 00:39:15.912 --> 00:39:17.352 the situation, kind of like this. 00:39:17.412 --> 00:39:20.022 He might just say, look, I've been managing. 00:39:20.892 --> 00:39:23.562 Look, I've been managing our finances perfectly for years. 00:39:23.592 --> 00:39:25.932 So it's not my fault that we're in the financial situation. 00:39:25.932 --> 00:39:26.352 We are. 00:39:26.592 --> 00:39:27.492 The economy's terrible. 00:39:27.522 --> 00:39:30.042 My boss doesn't appreciate my talents enough to pay me what I deserve. 00:39:30.432 --> 00:39:34.122 And you need to understand that I'm doing my best and you should actually 00:39:34.122 --> 00:39:36.132 be very grateful for everything that I provide for this family. 00:39:36.312 --> 00:39:39.642 So from now on, I think you're going to need to cut back on your spending because 00:39:39.642 --> 00:39:41.502 I'm noticing your shopping habits there. 00:39:41.562 --> 00:39:42.222 The real problem. 00:39:43.212 --> 00:39:45.792 So in that example, the narcissistic husband deflects 00:39:45.792 --> 00:39:48.012 blame onto external factors. 00:39:48.582 --> 00:39:51.702 Like everything from the, the economy, his boss. 00:39:52.062 --> 00:39:55.392 But also on his wife and then he exaggerates his own 00:39:55.392 --> 00:39:56.592 abilities and importance. 00:39:56.642 --> 00:39:57.512 I'm not being paid. 00:39:57.512 --> 00:39:58.352 What I deserve. 00:39:58.712 --> 00:40:01.172 She has a lack of empathy for his wife's feelings or perspective. 00:40:01.292 --> 00:40:02.192 Cause he can't even hear it. 00:40:02.672 --> 00:40:05.492 And then fails to take responsibility for his role in the financial issues. 00:40:05.762 --> 00:40:06.542 There was no. 00:40:06.872 --> 00:40:08.942 Here's what I can do differently. 00:40:09.742 --> 00:40:12.682 So now in this scenario, it's a little bit different when we bring 00:40:12.682 --> 00:40:14.332 up the emotionally immature husband. 00:40:14.392 --> 00:40:17.372 Because again, these are based pretty loosely off of some real examples. 00:40:18.002 --> 00:40:21.602 But in this one, the husband was the one that was taking care of the finances. 00:40:22.022 --> 00:40:25.352 But we later, as we kind of process through things, it was because 00:40:25.382 --> 00:40:30.032 he was afraid to be open and vulnerable about not being very good. 00:40:30.342 --> 00:40:31.782 With financial matters. 00:40:32.082 --> 00:40:35.652 And so trying to hide the spinning that he was doing, as well as the 00:40:35.652 --> 00:40:40.662 fact that he just wasn't willing to be open about the dire straits 00:40:40.662 --> 00:40:42.282 that they were in financially. 00:40:42.852 --> 00:40:46.692 So in that one, he's saying he finally needs to do something to talk to his 00:40:46.692 --> 00:40:50.442 wife and he says, Hey, I don't even want to talk about this right now, honestly. 00:40:50.832 --> 00:40:51.552 And a. 00:40:52.092 --> 00:40:54.012 And I'm the one that's doing the bills. 00:40:54.012 --> 00:40:55.362 I'm the one that takes care of all the money. 00:40:55.422 --> 00:40:57.192 And I'm the one that has the higher paying job. 00:40:57.462 --> 00:40:59.562 So honestly this whole thing isn't fair. 00:40:59.922 --> 00:41:02.262 But, and I'm already, I know you're going to criticize me. 00:41:02.622 --> 00:41:04.842 Because I've heard it before, but you know what? 00:41:04.842 --> 00:41:07.032 We're behind on some bills, but it's not a big deal. 00:41:07.482 --> 00:41:11.312 And I need you to start taking care of this, but but I think what we first 00:41:11.312 --> 00:41:14.822 need to do is maybe we need to cut back on some spending, but there's a lot of 00:41:14.822 --> 00:41:17.042 things that I need to spend money on. 00:41:17.042 --> 00:41:20.192 You, if you can tell me what you're going to spend, then I think that's 00:41:20.192 --> 00:41:23.462 going to be a lot better, but right now, I don't even need you to say a 00:41:23.462 --> 00:41:26.312 word and I'm just going to go with my friends and let's deal with this later. 00:41:27.212 --> 00:41:28.442 I mean, there's so much there. 00:41:28.602 --> 00:41:31.362 That the emotionally immature person tends to gravitate toward. 00:41:31.362 --> 00:41:35.112 They avoid the difficult conversation and they react defensively almost 00:41:35.112 --> 00:41:36.462 proactively and defensively. 00:41:37.212 --> 00:41:40.282 And anticipates that he's going to be in trouble, accuses his 00:41:40.312 --> 00:41:42.772 wife of nagging, downplays the seriousness of the situation. 00:41:43.102 --> 00:41:45.682 But once again, fails to take any responsibility or 00:41:45.682 --> 00:41:46.882 really even offer solutions. 00:41:47.302 --> 00:41:48.772 And then is going to escape. 00:41:48.952 --> 00:41:51.292 And it's interesting when you will see people that will say, I'm going to text 00:41:51.322 --> 00:41:54.112 you this, but I don't, you, I don't want you to even say anything back. 00:41:54.482 --> 00:41:56.852 It's because I want to be able to alleviate my discomfort and 00:41:56.852 --> 00:42:00.362 say this thing, but I don't want any returned discomfort. 00:42:00.992 --> 00:42:04.632 And then the nice guy syndrome example and that one the husband 00:42:04.632 --> 00:42:05.472 might approach it this way. 00:42:05.502 --> 00:42:07.572 Just kinda like, Hey honey, I've been meaning to talk to you about something. 00:42:07.842 --> 00:42:09.702 I know you've been wanting to renovate the kitchen and I feel 00:42:09.702 --> 00:42:12.702 terrible cause we're actually a little bit behind on some bills and I. 00:42:13.032 --> 00:42:14.502 I didn't really want to bother you with it. 00:42:14.562 --> 00:42:16.242 I didn't want you to worry about it. 00:42:16.632 --> 00:42:18.672 So I've been trying to handle it on my own. 00:42:18.912 --> 00:42:20.212 And I've been working extra hours. 00:42:20.212 --> 00:42:22.582 I'm trying to cut back on my expenses to try to fix things. 00:42:23.092 --> 00:42:24.382 Because I really thought I could. 00:42:24.682 --> 00:42:25.672 I don't know, make things better. 00:42:25.702 --> 00:42:27.922 And I thought it was better for me to keep this from you, but I realize now, 00:42:28.372 --> 00:42:29.782 Probably wasn't the right thing to do. 00:42:29.842 --> 00:42:31.552 And I'm so sorry, because I've let you down. 00:42:32.352 --> 00:42:33.672 So he's already avoided. 00:42:33.972 --> 00:42:36.132 Conflict by hiding financial problems. 00:42:36.222 --> 00:42:39.402 Now, here we are, puts his wife's desires like this kitchen renovation 00:42:39.402 --> 00:42:40.602 ahead of financial stability. 00:42:40.602 --> 00:42:43.572 So instead of saying, I don't think we can afford to do the kitchen renovation. 00:42:44.112 --> 00:42:46.782 Because if he does and he sees his wife's disappointment, then 00:42:46.782 --> 00:42:47.592 he just says, no, you want it? 00:42:47.622 --> 00:42:48.222 I'll figure it out. 00:42:49.032 --> 00:42:51.852 And then he tries to solve the problem alone without involving his partner. 00:42:51.912 --> 00:42:55.772 I see that so many times, and that creates just a lot of financial struggles 00:42:55.772 --> 00:42:59.012 and issues where then the guy is moving money around and maybe credit card to 00:42:59.042 --> 00:43:00.392 credit card or whatever that looks like. 00:43:00.872 --> 00:43:03.842 Because he just doesn't want to deal with it because he's, so it feels so much, 00:43:03.872 --> 00:43:05.972 the successive guilt or the self-blame. 00:43:06.662 --> 00:43:09.362 And then he wants approval and forgiveness. 00:43:09.552 --> 00:43:13.212 Once validation rather than just saying, okay, I have to put my big boy pants on. 00:43:13.572 --> 00:43:14.652 Focused on solutions. 00:43:14.832 --> 00:43:18.772 So in all three of those cases the husband's approaches are problematic 00:43:18.802 --> 00:43:21.712 and they're not going to lead to any productive resolution of 00:43:21.712 --> 00:43:22.942 the financial issues for sure. 00:43:23.742 --> 00:43:24.912 And this is where the. 00:43:25.812 --> 00:43:28.602 Cue the sappy music and the cliches come next. 00:43:28.602 --> 00:43:32.052 But a healthier approach would be to involve open, honest communication, shared 00:43:32.052 --> 00:43:33.432 responsibility, collaborative effort. 00:43:33.882 --> 00:43:35.982 And I know that that can be difficult when we don't really 00:43:35.982 --> 00:43:37.182 even know what that looks like. 00:43:37.822 --> 00:43:41.182 And self-regulation, I think that's one of the biggest keys is that one 00:43:41.182 --> 00:43:43.672 of the things that people want to know that they can do on a day-to-day 00:43:43.672 --> 00:43:44.812 basis, what's their homework. 00:43:44.812 --> 00:43:47.482 And it really is working on self-regulation. 00:43:48.082 --> 00:43:51.592 And I'll take you back in the time machine because we go back to childhood. 00:43:51.962 --> 00:43:54.602 W what's difficult about that is self-regulation, it's the 00:43:54.602 --> 00:43:58.172 ability to manage your thoughts, your emotions and behaviors. 00:43:58.652 --> 00:44:02.072 In a way that is, I want to say like age appropriate to the situation. 00:44:02.492 --> 00:44:05.732 And more in alignment with your goals, your values are who you 00:44:05.762 --> 00:44:07.142 really know yourself to be. 00:44:08.012 --> 00:44:13.502 Because the, and well, I'll get to that origin story and just a second. 00:44:13.832 --> 00:44:16.692 But It's if you think of it that way though, it's like learning 00:44:16.692 --> 00:44:18.462 how to manage my own thoughts. 00:44:18.462 --> 00:44:20.442 I'm not saying stop them, control them, but manage my own 00:44:20.442 --> 00:44:21.792 thoughts, emotions and behaviors. 00:44:22.512 --> 00:44:24.762 That are pretty appropriate with the situation. 00:44:25.262 --> 00:44:27.422 They wouldn't seem that out of the ordinary, when somebody 00:44:27.422 --> 00:44:29.342 says, Hey, I forgot to pick up. 00:44:29.612 --> 00:44:30.902 I don't know, soap on the way home. 00:44:30.902 --> 00:44:34.562 And then your spouse loses their mind about it. 00:44:35.232 --> 00:44:37.872 Self-regulation is going to take recognizing and 00:44:37.872 --> 00:44:39.552 understanding your own emotions. 00:44:40.212 --> 00:44:43.252 And remember that our emotions were not very welcome. 00:44:43.312 --> 00:44:46.252 Most likely if you're even listening to this podcast and your childhood. 00:44:46.942 --> 00:44:50.062 Because even a well-meaning parent probably did a lot of, 00:44:50.062 --> 00:44:50.872 Hey, don't worry about it. 00:44:50.992 --> 00:44:51.802 It's not a big deal. 00:44:52.102 --> 00:44:53.752 Don't think that way don't feel that way. 00:44:53.782 --> 00:44:55.372 Just stop crying, rub a little dirt in it. 00:44:56.212 --> 00:44:58.972 Or what did you do that was part of the problem? 00:44:59.002 --> 00:45:01.852 So we learned that instead of externalizing our emotions, 00:45:01.882 --> 00:45:02.752 we internalize them. 00:45:03.352 --> 00:45:05.332 And now we need somebody else to tell us that it's okay. 00:45:05.392 --> 00:45:06.832 So our emotions are foreign. 00:45:06.922 --> 00:45:08.512 They are not welcome when they come. 00:45:08.542 --> 00:45:09.262 We have really. 00:45:09.782 --> 00:45:13.922 I have a very silly looking cry face that I need to work on because I'm contorting 00:45:13.922 --> 00:45:15.872 my face muscles in so many different ways. 00:45:15.902 --> 00:45:16.952 I didn't even know existed. 00:45:17.362 --> 00:45:19.882 And it's because I'm trying so hard not to do something like that. 00:45:20.692 --> 00:45:23.422 I have to tell you, I was playing with some artificial intelligence 00:45:23.472 --> 00:45:24.492 headshots the other day. 00:45:24.822 --> 00:45:28.182 And I had this app and I needed to find eight selfies. 00:45:28.482 --> 00:45:33.582 So I don't know what this means, but I didn't have a selfies in my 20 year. 00:45:34.002 --> 00:45:35.802 I don't know how many tens of thousands of pictures. 00:45:35.802 --> 00:45:36.552 Camera roll. 00:45:37.062 --> 00:45:39.402 So I'm going through and I'm scrolling through pictures and 00:45:39.402 --> 00:45:40.602 I need to be able to find them. 00:45:40.632 --> 00:45:45.162 And I never did, but as I got to about two and a half, three years ago, And 00:45:45.162 --> 00:45:48.012 I stumbled upon the, a lot of video. 00:45:48.372 --> 00:45:50.892 And a lot of big emotions and feelings around the time when my daughter, 00:45:50.922 --> 00:45:53.402 Alex got in a near fatal car wreck. 00:45:53.452 --> 00:45:57.352 And what really got me was my son was playing his senior year of basketball. 00:45:57.892 --> 00:45:59.502 And he was about to set a. 00:45:59.782 --> 00:46:01.822 High school or a school scoring record. 00:46:02.182 --> 00:46:04.822 And playing at a gym that was foreign. 00:46:05.092 --> 00:46:08.272 And at this point, And, they're chanting against them, which he's used to. 00:46:08.722 --> 00:46:12.782 But here's a guy , who was really close to a sister who almost 00:46:12.782 --> 00:46:16.562 died and he had her name written on a thing of tape on his arm. 00:46:17.072 --> 00:46:19.082 And I, I started balling. 00:46:19.232 --> 00:46:20.372 It came out of nowhere. 00:46:20.822 --> 00:46:23.012 'cause I just remember that game and I felt like it was too much 00:46:23.012 --> 00:46:25.772 for anybody to handle because the crowd was chanting against them. 00:46:26.112 --> 00:46:29.262 They were double teaming him to stop him from getting this scoring record. 00:46:29.412 --> 00:46:33.042 There was a ref that we ran into during the summer often who I 00:46:33.102 --> 00:46:35.022 think wasn't a big fan of my son. 00:46:35.022 --> 00:46:37.692 And so I just felt like the world was conspiring against them. 00:46:38.172 --> 00:46:40.842 And I could see on his wrist, this tape that had his thought. 00:46:40.932 --> 00:46:42.612 That , my daughter, his sister's name on it. 00:46:43.002 --> 00:46:46.262 And she's meanwhile, in an ICU a couple of states away. 00:46:46.712 --> 00:46:47.462 And I lost it. 00:46:47.882 --> 00:46:50.642 But I thought about this concept of emotions. 00:46:51.062 --> 00:46:55.292 And I just, I was in my closet studio and our home in Arizona. 00:46:55.682 --> 00:46:58.382 And I just allowed myself to just let it go. 00:46:59.132 --> 00:47:02.482 And I only mentioned the closet studio thing because I do think it was because 00:47:02.482 --> 00:47:05.452 I felt a little bit safe and that I was isolated and alone, and there 00:47:05.452 --> 00:47:07.012 were sound dampening equipment there. 00:47:07.552 --> 00:47:08.692 But I just let myself go. 00:47:08.692 --> 00:47:11.812 And I found myself still wanting to hold back and not let myself 00:47:11.902 --> 00:47:14.692 feel all the feelings and I did, and I let them come in. 00:47:15.232 --> 00:47:18.562 And it was, first of all, it wasn't, as long as I thought it would be. 00:47:18.562 --> 00:47:19.882 I think there's all the habits. 00:47:19.942 --> 00:47:20.782 One of those would be well. 00:47:20.782 --> 00:47:24.682 Yeah, but what if I, I do this forever and I can never regain composure 00:47:24.682 --> 00:47:26.012 and that's an adorable story. 00:47:26.042 --> 00:47:29.072 My brains, trying to tell me to keep me away from this uncomfortable feeling. 00:47:29.872 --> 00:47:33.622 And that uncertainty of what is going to happen, but it was very cleansing. 00:47:33.712 --> 00:47:34.552 It really was. 00:47:34.582 --> 00:47:39.852 And And then add kicked in and I never finished and found any other pictures. 00:47:39.912 --> 00:47:41.142 And then I went on about my day. 00:47:41.192 --> 00:47:42.662 No, no AI headshots. 00:47:43.562 --> 00:47:45.632 But we're back to that recognizing and understanding your emotions 00:47:45.752 --> 00:47:49.532 and trying to bring gentle awareness around your impulses or 00:47:49.592 --> 00:47:51.662 the need to delay gratification. 00:47:51.662 --> 00:47:55.302 Because , when we're trying to push down our emotions, it's uncomfortable. 00:47:55.302 --> 00:47:56.442 And what do we do with our discomfort? 00:47:56.442 --> 00:47:57.762 People often turn to. 00:47:58.122 --> 00:47:59.322 Unhealthy coping mechanisms. 00:47:59.412 --> 00:48:01.542 That's where impulsive behaviors happen often. 00:48:02.142 --> 00:48:04.842 And so learning to sit with that discomfort and feel the feelings is 00:48:04.842 --> 00:48:08.562 amazing when it can be done, but it's not something that's going to come natural. 00:48:09.112 --> 00:48:12.572 And then learning, from a self-regulation standpoint to, to 00:48:12.642 --> 00:48:15.732 read the room a bit in a positive way, not saying don't be authentic. 00:48:16.122 --> 00:48:19.022 But Hey, there's forgot to bring the soap home. 00:48:19.202 --> 00:48:19.922 We'll be okay. 00:48:20.552 --> 00:48:24.272 Because that helps you maintain focus, maybe motivation toward long-term goals 00:48:24.272 --> 00:48:28.732 or values, value based goals of compassion or consistency, things like that. 00:48:29.122 --> 00:48:32.392 But I was love a good childhood story or origin story. 00:48:32.392 --> 00:48:34.972 So these self-regulation skills, I think they really develop. 00:48:35.332 --> 00:48:37.192 In childhood because of a number of things. 00:48:37.192 --> 00:48:39.052 One is parent modeling. 00:48:39.472 --> 00:48:42.052 Because kids learn by observing how their parents handle emotions 00:48:42.052 --> 00:48:44.632 and challenges, they're mapping their parents' relationship. 00:48:45.442 --> 00:48:48.622 And then and disciplines that interesting word it's starting, I think, to take 00:48:48.622 --> 00:48:52.492 on a pretty negative connotation but if I say consistent discipline or clear, 00:48:52.492 --> 00:48:56.422 consistent boundaries, Then what help kids understand expectations and consequences. 00:48:56.422 --> 00:48:58.732 So I'm not talking about physical, but I'm talking about 00:48:58.732 --> 00:49:00.022 clear, consistent boundaries. 00:49:00.052 --> 00:49:01.942 Hey, if you don't do this, then this won't happen. 00:49:02.062 --> 00:49:03.652 Now I was horrible at those. 00:49:03.922 --> 00:49:06.292 So this is not me saying like I did with my family. 00:49:06.662 --> 00:49:09.752 This is something that the nice guy in me, the emotional immature person in 00:49:09.752 --> 00:49:11.942 me just wanted to make everybody happy. 00:49:11.972 --> 00:49:13.712 So I will do everything all the time. 00:49:13.742 --> 00:49:15.692 And as long as everybody's good, then I'm good. 00:49:16.242 --> 00:49:18.912 And I think that I, you almost want to call it emotional coaching. 00:49:18.922 --> 00:49:23.152 Helping a parent learn to help their kids identify and talk about their 00:49:23.152 --> 00:49:24.322 feelings, just acknowledge them. 00:49:24.352 --> 00:49:25.012 How are you feeling? 00:49:25.132 --> 00:49:27.532 Not, I bet you're feeling sad because if the kids like not 00:49:27.532 --> 00:49:28.822 really kind of more frustrated. 00:49:29.262 --> 00:49:32.832 Learn to help your kids identify and talk about their feelings. 00:49:33.192 --> 00:49:35.562 And that will lead to more emotional intelligence. 00:49:35.592 --> 00:49:38.562 And then this concept of a secure attachment, a, you know, a strong, 00:49:38.592 --> 00:49:41.622 supportive relationship with your caregiver provides a safe base 00:49:41.622 --> 00:49:43.122 for exploring your own emotions. 00:49:43.122 --> 00:49:44.202 If I'm not having to manage. 00:49:44.472 --> 00:49:48.042 My parents' emotions, then I can tap into mine and I still 00:49:48.042 --> 00:49:48.912 won't even know what they are. 00:49:48.912 --> 00:49:51.132 So that's where I actually need the parent to have their stuff together. 00:49:51.342 --> 00:49:55.632 So they can then come in with curiosity and ask me the kid about my emotions. 00:49:55.632 --> 00:49:59.372 And that's, self-regulation skills or we're heading toward it becoming 00:49:59.462 --> 00:50:04.032 autonomous, allowing kids these age appropriate versions of independence 00:50:04.032 --> 00:50:07.572 helps them practice decision-making and practice self control. 00:50:08.052 --> 00:50:08.382 And. 00:50:08.682 --> 00:50:11.232 We get more and more data around, the neurological piece of this, the 00:50:11.232 --> 00:50:14.232 prefrontal cortex, which is so crucial for self-regulation where we tap 00:50:14.232 --> 00:50:15.972 into the logical part of the brain. 00:50:16.252 --> 00:50:20.242 That is developing like a champ and in early adult, even into early adulthood. 00:50:20.242 --> 00:50:22.132 And then there's still the concept of neuroplasticity, but 00:50:22.132 --> 00:50:24.292 I think it's so malleable young. 00:50:24.352 --> 00:50:28.432 So when these factors, when these things are lacking, or if they're 00:50:28.432 --> 00:50:32.662 interrupted through trauma or neglect or inconsistent parenting, then a 00:50:32.662 --> 00:50:34.312 kid is going to struggle to develop. 00:50:35.242 --> 00:50:36.682 Adequate self-regulation skills. 00:50:37.072 --> 00:50:40.012 And I think that is one of the key leading indicators. 00:50:40.312 --> 00:50:42.862 Of emotional immaturity and adulthood. 00:50:43.192 --> 00:50:45.562 And let me talk about complex emotions, because I think 00:50:45.562 --> 00:50:46.702 that's a difficult thing still. 00:50:46.702 --> 00:50:49.552 If we're barely starting to figure out our own emotions now as an adult. 00:50:50.032 --> 00:50:52.852 It's no wonder, because if we weren't allowed to feel our feelings or 00:50:52.912 --> 00:50:55.612 acknowledged our emotions young, and now there's a lot of them. 00:50:56.012 --> 00:50:59.972 Complex emotions are way more nuanced because they typically involve a nice 00:50:59.972 --> 00:51:04.582 combo pack of two or more basic emotions, , so that does require a higher level 00:51:04.612 --> 00:51:06.202 emotional intelligence to recognize. 00:51:06.202 --> 00:51:07.312 And then what do I even do with them? 00:51:07.672 --> 00:51:08.712 So here's some examples. 00:51:08.742 --> 00:51:09.342 Ambivalence. 00:51:09.382 --> 00:51:11.602 That's the concept of feeling two contradictory emotions 00:51:11.602 --> 00:51:13.132 simultaneously, such as love and hate. 00:51:13.432 --> 00:51:16.402 Toward the same person, person might be feeling ambivalent about a job offer. 00:51:16.762 --> 00:51:19.042 Because they're experiencing both the excitement about the opportunity 00:51:19.072 --> 00:51:21.562 could be cool, but also anxiety about the new responsibility. 00:51:21.712 --> 00:51:22.432 What if I mess up. 00:51:22.982 --> 00:51:23.702 Nostalgia. 00:51:23.762 --> 00:51:26.642 I deal with so many people that really long, they have this longing, 00:51:26.642 --> 00:51:28.202 a sentimental longing for the past. 00:51:28.712 --> 00:51:29.132 And that. 00:51:29.702 --> 00:51:32.162 And often be tense with both happiness and sadness. 00:51:32.162 --> 00:51:35.512 I know if, I think back to my, my kids and when they were young, 00:51:35.572 --> 00:51:39.352 man, what a time and, oh my gosh, how sad that, that time is over. 00:51:39.852 --> 00:51:41.592 An example, there might be looking at family photos. 00:51:41.592 --> 00:51:44.702 That, that could bring up nostalgia, bringing joy from happy memories, but 00:51:44.702 --> 00:51:46.352 also sadness that those have passed. 00:51:46.742 --> 00:51:50.002 And I got three, four years of high school and college German should 00:51:50.002 --> 00:51:51.052 be a little bit shot in Florida. 00:51:51.142 --> 00:51:52.312 If you're familiar with that concept. 00:51:52.942 --> 00:51:53.272 A little bit. 00:51:53.272 --> 00:51:55.762 It's interesting taking pleasure and somebody else's misfortune. 00:51:55.821 --> 00:51:58.311 Feeling secretly pleased when a coworker who often brags about their 00:51:58.311 --> 00:52:01.941 abilities, make some mistake during a presentation, that's a complex emotion. 00:52:02.391 --> 00:52:02.931 And right now. 00:52:02.961 --> 00:52:04.851 It's the desire is just to bring awareness to it. 00:52:05.191 --> 00:52:06.241 Take a look at anticipation. 00:52:06.301 --> 00:52:07.081 I mean, that's a mixture of. 00:52:07.261 --> 00:52:10.201 Of excitement and anxiety about a future event. 00:52:10.691 --> 00:52:14.111 Feeling both eager and nervous before a date or a job interview. 00:52:14.651 --> 00:52:15.221 Jealousy. 00:52:15.461 --> 00:52:19.751 Uh, complex boy, that is a complex web of emotions involving a fear of loss. 00:52:20.081 --> 00:52:24.731 Of anger of not being validated, self doubt, imposter syndrome, you name it. 00:52:25.241 --> 00:52:28.421 You know, when somebody feels jealous, when they see a partner laughing with 00:52:28.421 --> 00:52:31.271 an attractive colleague, they might experience a whole mix of insecurities 00:52:31.541 --> 00:52:32.861 and possessiveness and resentment. 00:52:33.361 --> 00:52:36.121 Or think about the concept of something bittersweet you. 00:52:36.331 --> 00:52:37.861 A combination of happiness and sadness. 00:52:38.291 --> 00:52:41.551 Feeling bittersweet at a college graduation, proud of the achievement, 00:52:41.581 --> 00:52:42.781 but oh my gosh, they're leaving. 00:52:43.321 --> 00:52:45.991 I was talking with a friend recently who she was seeing 00:52:45.991 --> 00:52:47.461 her daughter off to college. 00:52:47.761 --> 00:52:51.301 And she was asking me if I remember what that was like and in my situation 00:52:51.331 --> 00:52:55.711 and boy, talk about that was when I would just lose my emotional mind. 00:52:56.191 --> 00:53:01.561 When we're hugging a kid and leaving them there as their freshman year of college. 00:53:02.221 --> 00:53:05.561 And that's why all of a sudden I would get these feelings of oh man, did I 00:53:05.681 --> 00:53:09.551 was I it's a cool vedana is I thought I was and, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. 00:53:09.551 --> 00:53:10.211 Did I do enough? 00:53:10.331 --> 00:53:12.731 And it's, that's a me thing, but it's, it can be really difficult. 00:53:13.351 --> 00:53:14.731 To get the concept of awe. 00:53:14.781 --> 00:53:17.091 That's a mix of wonder and fear and respect. 00:53:17.601 --> 00:53:18.291 A lot of times system. 00:53:18.531 --> 00:53:19.791 In response to something. 00:53:20.211 --> 00:53:21.231 Fast or powerful. 00:53:21.291 --> 00:53:24.161 You don't remember flying over the green canyon at one point in an 00:53:24.161 --> 00:53:28.451 airplane, looking down, just feeling simultaneously amazed by the beauty and 00:53:28.451 --> 00:53:30.581 then almost like fearful of its immensity. 00:53:31.061 --> 00:53:34.241 So understanding and managing these complex emotions that 00:53:34.241 --> 00:53:37.891 requires emotional maturity and well-developed self-regulation skills. 00:53:37.921 --> 00:53:40.351 And so people who struggle with emotional immaturity might find it 00:53:40.351 --> 00:53:44.011 challenging to identify process, respond appropriately to all of 00:53:44.011 --> 00:53:45.451 these kinds of emotional experiences. 00:53:46.121 --> 00:53:48.831 I have, another concept I would love to share. 00:53:49.081 --> 00:53:52.221 . So, we'll just imagine I dunno, we'll call her Tara and she 00:53:52.221 --> 00:53:53.541 loves solving jigsaw puzzles. 00:53:53.901 --> 00:53:56.631 So she starts working on a new thousand piece puzzle without 00:53:56.631 --> 00:53:57.981 looking at the picture on the box. 00:53:57.981 --> 00:54:00.741 And as she starts, she finds and connects a ton of these dark. 00:54:00.981 --> 00:54:04.701 Almost somber pieces, the blacks, these grays on these deep blues. 00:54:05.181 --> 00:54:09.111 So in our mind, Tara's thinking, okay, this must be like a nighttime scene. 00:54:09.327 --> 00:54:10.857 , but it feels kind of gloomy. 00:54:11.307 --> 00:54:13.947 And the more that she's working with these dark pieces. 00:54:14.367 --> 00:54:15.687 And she's there for a while. 00:54:15.687 --> 00:54:16.767 Cause it's such a big puzzle. 00:54:16.767 --> 00:54:18.807 She starts to focus really just on that section. 00:54:19.227 --> 00:54:23.157 And then she just gets this vibe, this feeling that the entire puzzle, it 00:54:23.157 --> 00:54:25.597 must be dreary at this colorless image. 00:54:25.897 --> 00:54:28.957 But as she continues, then she starts finding other pieces that have more 00:54:28.957 --> 00:54:31.447 vibrant colors, more yellows and greens. 00:54:31.447 --> 00:54:34.107 And maybe these cheerful colors of red. 00:54:34.857 --> 00:54:37.857 So confused at first, she realizes, okay, these new pieces, 00:54:37.857 --> 00:54:39.267 these connected the edges. 00:54:39.747 --> 00:54:43.437 Of the dark section that she completed earlier. 00:54:43.587 --> 00:54:46.197 And then now it's starting to be a completely different picture. 00:54:47.067 --> 00:54:49.647 So the more the puzzle, the more that it comes together, she discovers 00:54:49.647 --> 00:54:52.887 that the dark section she initially focused on is actually a little part. 00:54:52.887 --> 00:54:56.157 It's pretty small, part of a much larger, more diverse image. 00:54:56.607 --> 00:54:59.217 And then this completed puzzle actually shows this beautiful 00:54:59.217 --> 00:55:00.597 landscape has a night sky. 00:55:00.957 --> 00:55:02.397 But it's transitioning into this. 00:55:02.817 --> 00:55:03.777 Colorful sunrise. 00:55:03.777 --> 00:55:07.017 And it has flowers and trees and a shimmering lake. 00:55:07.467 --> 00:55:10.407 So Tara realizes that if she had judged the entire puzzle, based 00:55:10.407 --> 00:55:13.257 on that first dark section, she would have missed the whole beauty 00:55:13.257 --> 00:55:15.177 and the complexity of that whole. 00:55:15.757 --> 00:55:16.177 Image. 00:55:16.727 --> 00:55:18.137 And this is because I've been trying. 00:55:18.647 --> 00:55:20.087 Hard in my mind. 00:55:20.837 --> 00:55:23.567 To really explain this concept of whole object relations. 00:55:23.567 --> 00:55:25.337 And I think that analogy really illustrates it. 00:55:25.787 --> 00:55:28.097 Because just as Tara needed to see all the parts of the puzzle 00:55:28.097 --> 00:55:29.177 to appreciate the full picture. 00:55:29.567 --> 00:55:32.567 Then I think we need to recognize all the aspects of a person, whether it's 00:55:32.567 --> 00:55:35.747 ourselves, or we can even look at that with others to really try to understand 00:55:35.747 --> 00:55:37.367 ourselves or others completely. 00:55:38.167 --> 00:55:40.327 Because and this is piggybacking off of. 00:55:40.717 --> 00:55:44.287 The complex emotions, because I think that understanding complex 00:55:44.287 --> 00:55:47.737 emotions is related to this concept of whole object relations and this 00:55:47.737 --> 00:55:49.207 other one called object constancy. 00:55:49.747 --> 00:55:52.177 So I want to see if we can really make some sense of 00:55:52.177 --> 00:55:53.557 this, a whole object relations. 00:55:54.037 --> 00:55:57.757 It refers to this ability to perceive yourself and others. 00:55:58.477 --> 00:56:01.927 As the complex multifaceted individuals. 00:56:02.317 --> 00:56:03.067 With both. 00:56:03.487 --> 00:56:06.337 Challenging and an adorable lovable qualities. 00:56:07.027 --> 00:56:10.357 And it's, I think that's really crucial and understanding how we 00:56:10.357 --> 00:56:12.097 form and we maintain relationships. 00:56:12.697 --> 00:56:14.317 So then we've got object constancy and that's this 00:56:14.317 --> 00:56:16.867 ability to maintain a positive, emotional connection to somebody. 00:56:17.227 --> 00:56:19.327 While you're experiencing feelings or frustration and 00:56:19.327 --> 00:56:20.527 anger, disappointment with them. 00:56:20.797 --> 00:56:23.797 So it involves understanding that relationships and people can have 00:56:23.827 --> 00:56:26.417 both challenging and wonderful. 00:56:26.777 --> 00:56:28.367 Aspects without. 00:56:29.117 --> 00:56:30.827 Necessarily needing. 00:56:31.217 --> 00:56:35.087 To just focus on those negative aspects, it's natural or a bit normal to do that. 00:56:35.747 --> 00:56:37.937 But often that's all that we're looking on. 00:56:38.387 --> 00:56:41.927 So if I connect this to these complex emotions, we were just talking about 00:56:41.951 --> 00:56:45.261 If you have this integration of positive and negative complex emotions. 00:56:45.651 --> 00:56:50.421 They often involve that simultaneous experience of contradictory feelings. 00:56:50.901 --> 00:56:53.931 So that aligns up with this concept of whole object relations, where 00:56:53.931 --> 00:56:57.151 somebody can hold both positive and negative views of a person or a 00:56:57.171 --> 00:56:59.241 situation concurrently at the same time. 00:56:59.871 --> 00:57:02.421 And that's where you might feel proud of a friend success, 00:57:02.421 --> 00:57:03.591 but also a little bit of MB. 00:57:04.171 --> 00:57:06.751 That requires the ability to integrate these conflicting 00:57:06.751 --> 00:57:09.421 emotions into a relationship. 00:57:09.781 --> 00:57:13.411 So it's much like maintaining this whole object view of the friend. 00:57:14.211 --> 00:57:17.061 And then if we want to talk a little bit about emotional resilience then, 00:57:17.061 --> 00:57:20.471 which I think is something that we can discuss in more detail, maybe on a 00:57:20.501 --> 00:57:22.811 future episode, this object constancy. 00:57:23.501 --> 00:57:26.081 That's a concept that, that allows then for the. 00:57:26.561 --> 00:57:29.081 This continuance or persistence of positive feelings. 00:57:29.531 --> 00:57:31.871 Even in the face of disappointment or conflict. 00:57:32.381 --> 00:57:36.011 So I think this is crucial for managing complex emotions in relationships. 00:57:36.011 --> 00:57:40.921 Now, if you are in a abusive, toxic relationship, Then this 00:57:40.921 --> 00:57:42.031 is not saying that, okay. 00:57:42.031 --> 00:57:44.971 I need to see the good and the bad, and then maybe I do need to, but that's 00:57:44.971 --> 00:57:50.161 to allow myself then to understand that I can see good and people. 00:57:50.401 --> 00:57:54.481 But this bad part is not something that I feel safe with. 00:57:55.351 --> 00:57:58.891 So let's say you're in a romantic relationship and one person might feel 00:57:58.891 --> 00:58:00.931 frustrated with their partner's behavior. 00:58:01.321 --> 00:58:04.621 But they still do acknowledge, love and affection overall. 00:58:04.921 --> 00:58:06.991 So they're demonstrating both object constancy. 00:58:07.111 --> 00:58:09.001 They can maintain that relationship and the ability to 00:58:09.001 --> 00:58:10.231 handle these complex emotions. 00:58:11.191 --> 00:58:12.481 But I think that. 00:58:13.141 --> 00:58:15.181 Then it's this nuanced. 00:58:15.281 --> 00:58:18.851 Version of emotional experiences is what eventually is part of 00:58:18.851 --> 00:58:20.141 becoming more emotionally mature. 00:58:20.831 --> 00:58:24.281 Because the development of this concept of whole object relations allows for 00:58:24.371 --> 00:58:26.651 these more nuanced, emotional experiences. 00:58:27.101 --> 00:58:29.911 So every person you interact with is not good or bad, 00:58:29.971 --> 00:58:31.441 black or white all or nothing. 00:58:32.011 --> 00:58:36.081 So that's why I think it's so important to try to lay this path out this. 00:58:36.481 --> 00:58:38.011 This hallmark of complex emotion. 00:58:38.061 --> 00:58:39.021 Give you an example. 00:58:39.361 --> 00:58:42.631 The, that complex emotion I mentioned earlier of nostalgia requires the ability 00:58:42.631 --> 00:58:44.521 to simultaneously hold positive memories. 00:58:44.971 --> 00:58:46.591 And the sadness of their passing. 00:58:46.681 --> 00:58:48.061 That is a nuance of you. 00:58:48.631 --> 00:58:52.191 That is coming with a, developing a whole object relation of that 00:58:52.191 --> 00:58:53.871 experience of whatever you're viewing. 00:58:54.621 --> 00:58:58.491 And both whole object relations in this object, constancy, they 00:58:58.491 --> 00:59:01.581 then part of this is if I'm aware of this is how emotions work. 00:59:01.611 --> 00:59:03.441 I'm not even, we start from a place, so we don't even allow 00:59:03.441 --> 00:59:04.611 our emotions to hang around. 00:59:05.151 --> 00:59:05.871 But now they're here. 00:59:05.871 --> 00:59:06.561 So what are we gonna do with them? 00:59:06.561 --> 00:59:08.721 Because it turns out they're pretty big. 00:59:08.841 --> 00:59:09.711 They can be scary. 00:59:09.741 --> 00:59:10.761 They can also be kind of awesome. 00:59:11.281 --> 00:59:11.947 okay, , what do I do? 00:59:12.547 --> 00:59:14.887 Because I went from it wasn't a big deal now. 00:59:15.187 --> 00:59:19.027 Now only it's a big deal, but boy, is it a big deal, but it's also kind of cool. 00:59:19.277 --> 00:59:22.787 That can start to feel uncertain and here we go. 00:59:22.817 --> 00:59:24.467 We want certainty so bad then. 00:59:24.737 --> 00:59:26.627 You know what I'll deal with my emotions later. 00:59:27.427 --> 00:59:29.617 Let's say go back to this example of jealousy. 00:59:30.077 --> 00:59:32.687 A person with developed object constancy. 00:59:33.017 --> 00:59:35.987 So they can regulate their reaction by remembering the overall 00:59:35.987 --> 00:59:37.397 strength of their relationship. 00:59:37.967 --> 00:59:41.387 Rather than being overwhelmed by the momentary insecurity. 00:59:41.387 --> 00:59:43.637 Cause it's that in that moment that now all of a sudden. 00:59:44.267 --> 00:59:45.107 The immature. 00:59:45.137 --> 00:59:46.277 I need validation. 00:59:46.487 --> 00:59:47.267 I need you to tell me where. 00:59:47.267 --> 00:59:47.627 Okay. 00:59:47.717 --> 00:59:48.347 I need you to. 00:59:48.707 --> 00:59:49.967 To move away from that guy. 00:59:50.177 --> 00:59:52.097 Cause I saw you actually look at him. 00:59:52.667 --> 00:59:54.107 And that means you want to be with him. 00:59:54.207 --> 00:59:57.347 It's this ability to see others as whole objects, . With complex 00:59:57.347 --> 01:00:01.157 motivations and feelings, and that allows us for a deeper understanding. 01:00:01.757 --> 01:00:06.707 Of the fact that we are all this just blend of so many different 01:00:06.887 --> 01:00:08.777 feelings and emotions and experiences. 01:00:09.027 --> 01:00:12.897 Of course I don't understand exactly what somebody else is going through. 01:00:13.137 --> 01:00:14.577 I barely can figure out myself. 01:00:15.417 --> 01:00:17.787 And that concept I mentioned earlier was shot in Frita. 01:00:17.817 --> 01:00:21.627 Which is it's boy, that's the complexity of human nature that sometimes we can. 01:00:21.927 --> 01:00:25.137 Have pleasure from others' misfortunes, even if we generally wish others. 01:00:25.167 --> 01:00:28.107 Well, There's a paradox for you, ? Wrapping that part of 01:00:28.167 --> 01:00:30.777 the development of whole object relations and this object constancy. 01:00:31.227 --> 01:00:34.857 That I do think that's part of this foundation that is necessary 01:00:34.857 --> 01:00:38.877 to understand, to be able to experience and understand and 01:00:38.877 --> 01:00:41.637 manage your own complex emotions. 01:00:42.087 --> 01:00:47.277 So they allow you to acknowledge and hold multiple, sometimes 01:00:47.277 --> 01:00:49.287 conflicting feelings simultaneously. 01:00:49.347 --> 01:00:50.787 That is emotional maturity. 01:00:51.387 --> 01:00:53.627 And to maintain , a stable sense of self. 01:00:54.287 --> 01:00:57.887 And others, even when you're experiencing we'll call it some emotional turbulence. 01:00:58.427 --> 01:01:03.377 Because that's the capacity that you need to navigate the such tricky. 01:01:03.857 --> 01:01:07.487 Uh, emotional landscapes of adult relationships and especially 01:01:07.487 --> 01:01:08.747 in social interactions. 01:01:09.707 --> 01:01:13.097 Because if people are struggling with these concepts, Oh, hope you 01:01:13.097 --> 01:01:14.867 can see the path I'm laying out. 01:01:15.467 --> 01:01:17.927 They will then resort to black or white thinking. 01:01:18.557 --> 01:01:21.827 And or experience emotional instability in their relationships. 01:01:22.307 --> 01:01:24.767 And that's why I think these things are so important to understand. 01:01:25.277 --> 01:01:27.977 To be on your path to becoming more emotionally mature. 01:01:28.347 --> 01:01:32.357 I hope that you got . Something how to today, although that is a me issue, but 01:01:32.357 --> 01:01:35.427 I really do because I love this work. 01:01:35.427 --> 01:01:37.017 I love the questions that people send in. 01:01:37.017 --> 01:01:40.587 It can be frustrating, but then when things start to click and you start 01:01:40.587 --> 01:01:43.947 to really understand something and you're having your own aha moment. 01:01:44.307 --> 01:01:45.897 I know that that can feel pretty intoxicating. 01:01:45.897 --> 01:01:48.657 And one of the ironic things is oftentimes we want to share that with 01:01:48.657 --> 01:01:51.207 somebody in the person we want to share it with is the person that might 01:01:51.207 --> 01:01:53.307 be doing a lot of the emotional harm. 01:01:53.667 --> 01:01:57.327 Because we desperately want them to, we want to see the relationship 01:01:57.327 --> 01:02:01.587 improve, and this is a person that we're used to going to for however long. 01:02:01.917 --> 01:02:05.127 And now the fact that I'm hurting, but it's them, that's delivering the hurt. 01:02:05.487 --> 01:02:08.427 It just could be really, really confusing, which I think is part of 01:02:08.487 --> 01:02:10.647 understanding these complex emotions. 01:02:11.041 --> 01:02:13.771 If this resonated with you, I hope you can send it to somebody. 01:02:13.771 --> 01:02:18.291 If you've never taken a moment and written written in, feel free to do that. 01:02:18.351 --> 01:02:20.661 Contact the Tony overbay.com or go through my website. 01:02:21.081 --> 01:02:22.861 Or if you're open to it, I would love it. 01:02:22.861 --> 01:02:24.541 If you would subscribe anywhere. 01:02:24.871 --> 01:02:28.051 That you can, where you listen to podcast or go follow me at virtual 01:02:28.051 --> 01:02:32.401 dot couch on Instagram or a virtual couch on Tik TOK, or you can find 01:02:32.401 --> 01:02:33.841 the virtual couch podcast network. 01:02:33.941 --> 01:02:35.621 The virtual couch channel on YouTube. 01:02:35.651 --> 01:02:36.731 It really does mean a lot. 01:02:36.731 --> 01:02:41.021 If you are open to rating, reviewing, subscribing, all those wonderful things. 01:02:41.861 --> 01:02:42.701 Have an amazing week. 01:02:43.421 --> 01:02:46.421 I would love your feedback and I will see you next time. 01:02:46.781 --> 01:02:47.801 On waking up to narcissism,