WEBVTT 00:00:03.757 --> 00:00:08.117 Hey everybody, welcome to episode 104 of Waking Up to Narcissism. 00:00:08.137 --> 00:00:11.057 I am your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. 00:00:11.417 --> 00:00:15.877 And please go check out the link tree and subscribe to all of the podcasts in 00:00:15.877 --> 00:00:18.357 the Virtual Couch Network and take my marriage course. 00:00:18.637 --> 00:00:23.357 And let's just get to the topic at hand today because we're talking about, 00:00:23.457 --> 00:00:27.977 it's a little bit of a new, it's not a new concept. It's a, I'm talking about 00:00:27.977 --> 00:00:30.677 emotional whiplash and it's something that I can't believe we haven't talked 00:00:30.677 --> 00:00:33.377 about in 103 other episodes of the podcast. 00:00:33.757 --> 00:00:37.237 And I think you'll notice that this is something that's pretty common in emotionally 00:00:37.237 --> 00:00:39.257 immature relationships, narcissistic relationships. 00:00:39.737 --> 00:00:43.557 So let's just start with a story. It is story time and the following is absolutely 00:00:43.557 --> 00:00:45.617 based on a real life couple. 00:00:45.817 --> 00:00:50.017 So imagine Sarah, she's a stay at home mom. She's juggling the chaos of raising 00:00:50.017 --> 00:00:52.917 very energetic kids and managing a household. 00:00:53.057 --> 00:00:56.097 Her husband, Mike seems supportive, but there is a twist. 00:00:56.677 --> 00:01:00.617 Mike is from the planet Zoltor. Sorry, that would be a completely different podcast. 00:01:00.837 --> 00:01:05.057 But Mike, as we will soon see, is on the emotionally immature side. 00:01:05.657 --> 00:01:09.077 And one week, Mike, who often travels but who is spending more time at home, 00:01:09.137 --> 00:01:12.057 notices that, man, the kids are quite a bit. They're a lot. 00:01:12.697 --> 00:01:15.797 So he tells Sarah that she's not spending enough time with the kids and that's 00:01:15.797 --> 00:01:18.737 why they are so wild. So Sarah, she is very thankful for the feedback. 00:01:18.977 --> 00:01:22.577 And she adjusts her schedule and she pours her heart into playtime and crafts 00:01:22.577 --> 00:01:26.377 and bedtime stories and trying to be the mom that Mike wants to see. Thank you. 00:01:26.811 --> 00:01:30.411 But then the script flips. Suddenly Mike's upset that she's not doing enough 00:01:30.411 --> 00:01:33.851 around the house, not to mention she hasn't even asked him about his day and 00:01:33.851 --> 00:01:36.511 she has been exhausted when they go to bed together. 00:01:37.351 --> 00:01:41.711 Sarah's super confused. So the very projects that she put on hold to be with 00:01:41.711 --> 00:01:42.811 the kids are now a problem. 00:01:42.911 --> 00:01:46.191 And of course, she's more exhausted because she's going and doing and being 00:01:46.191 --> 00:01:49.191 everything she can be for everybody, especially the kids. 00:01:49.491 --> 00:01:53.291 And she thinks about explaining it to Mike, but she's hesitant because she's 00:01:53.291 --> 00:01:57.471 tried that in the past and it really hasn't gone so well. And it doesn't stop there. 00:01:57.611 --> 00:02:01.171 Mike often then will praise Sarah for being a great mom, but then out of the 00:02:01.171 --> 00:02:03.311 blue, he accuses her of resenting the kids. Why? 00:02:03.511 --> 00:02:07.311 Just because Sarah shares the day's struggles with him and she's frustrated 00:02:07.311 --> 00:02:09.811 and she's looking for a bit of empathy, maybe even some support. 00:02:10.391 --> 00:02:15.931 And then there are the houseplants, Sarah's little oasis of calm and green and a hectic life. 00:02:16.291 --> 00:02:20.871 Mike used to love them, or so he once said, but now he dismisses them and he 00:02:20.871 --> 00:02:25.191 calls them stupid and he says that they are just another distraction that you 00:02:25.191 --> 00:02:29.291 have from the kids and her creativity, which was something that might claim to adore, 00:02:29.571 --> 00:02:33.611 especially when they have had people over as they would compliment the decorations 00:02:33.611 --> 00:02:36.771 and the overall vibe in the home is suddenly too much for him. 00:02:36.831 --> 00:02:38.911 He said, she's very impulsive. She's too unpredictable. 00:02:39.311 --> 00:02:43.711 And even she talked about family movie nights, how they aren't safe from Mike's 00:02:43.711 --> 00:02:47.031 changing moods. They laugh together at kids' movies one night. 00:02:47.051 --> 00:02:50.491 And then the next time that this movie or one that's similar is on, 00:02:50.611 --> 00:02:52.831 he can't stand it. And he says, this is ridiculous. 00:02:53.051 --> 00:02:55.431 And I And I don't even know why we watch these things. It's unfit for the family. 00:02:55.751 --> 00:02:58.911 And if Sarah tries to point out these sudden changes in his opinions. 00:02:59.451 --> 00:03:01.051 Mike's response is the same. 00:03:01.431 --> 00:03:04.411 Well, I do not know where you heard that, but I didn't say it. 00:03:04.951 --> 00:03:08.471 And this story isn't just about a husband's changing moods. 00:03:08.591 --> 00:03:13.211 It's about a concept, though, that I refer to as narcissistic emotional whiplash. 00:03:13.491 --> 00:03:19.551 And while I want to say that we could use the acronym NEW, but in this case, it is anything but new. 00:03:19.671 --> 00:03:23.971 It gets really old and fast. But emotional whiplash is definitely something 00:03:23.971 --> 00:03:27.531 that people in narcissistic or emotionally immature relationships experience, 00:03:27.571 --> 00:03:28.911 and they experience it often. 00:03:28.911 --> 00:03:33.111 You can be on top of the world one minute, and then the very next, 00:03:33.231 --> 00:03:34.891 you can be brought to the ground. 00:03:35.031 --> 00:03:38.731 And ultimately, it's part of the trauma bond or the intermittent reinforcement 00:03:38.731 --> 00:03:43.571 where the same person who provides the reward in the relationship is also the 00:03:43.571 --> 00:03:44.791 one who provides the punishment, 00:03:44.991 --> 00:03:49.991 leaving you carrying around just bags and buckets full of eggshells to spread 00:03:49.991 --> 00:03:54.691 before your feet wherever you go around the emotionally immature or the narcissistic 00:03:54.691 --> 00:03:55.691 person in the relationship. 00:03:55.691 --> 00:04:00.631 And you can also imagine that Sarah is going to lose her sense of self because 00:04:00.631 --> 00:04:04.871 she's continually spending every moment she can trying to manage the kids' 00:04:04.931 --> 00:04:09.111 relationships and as well as buffer for Mike and trying to figure out how to 00:04:09.111 --> 00:04:11.711 make sense of his inconsistencies. 00:04:12.071 --> 00:04:15.871 Because as you can see with Sarah and Mike, Sarah is constantly trying to adjust 00:04:15.871 --> 00:04:20.251 to Mike's ever-shifting expectations, never quite sure what version of Mike 00:04:20.251 --> 00:04:22.011 that she's going to encounter. Right. 00:04:22.743 --> 00:04:26.583 So let's shift gears a little bit. Let's do a quick review of a couple of concepts 00:04:26.583 --> 00:04:30.143 that I think are going to be really important and come into play a lot today. 00:04:30.563 --> 00:04:32.743 First, let's talk about whole object relations. 00:04:33.463 --> 00:04:38.183 It is the ability to see people, including yourself, as they really are, 00:04:38.263 --> 00:04:41.583 with both their good and their not as good sides. 00:04:41.763 --> 00:04:46.723 It's like knowing your best friend is great at listening, but they're terrible at being on time. 00:04:47.043 --> 00:04:50.703 But you see the whole picture of who they are. It's not an all or nothing. 00:04:50.823 --> 00:04:53.423 It's not a black or white. So that's whole object relations. 00:04:53.623 --> 00:04:55.023 Then there's object constancy. 00:04:55.243 --> 00:04:58.483 And this is the ability to keep feeling good about somebody that you like, 00:04:58.563 --> 00:05:00.783 even when they do something that bothers you. 00:05:00.883 --> 00:05:03.863 It's like still loving somebody even when they forget your birthday, 00:05:03.983 --> 00:05:08.403 or they didn't text you in a moment where you thought that they were going to. 00:05:08.403 --> 00:05:12.223 But here's the deal with narcissists or those who are emotionally immature. 00:05:12.603 --> 00:05:16.943 They struggle big time with these concepts of whole object relations and object 00:05:16.943 --> 00:05:20.063 constancy because they tend to see things in black and white. 00:05:20.163 --> 00:05:23.763 And in their world, people are either then amazing or terrible. 00:05:23.883 --> 00:05:25.703 There's not a lot of in between, if any. any. 00:05:26.003 --> 00:05:30.163 So one minute, they might think that somebody is the very best thing that ever 00:05:30.163 --> 00:05:31.183 walked the face of the earth. 00:05:31.783 --> 00:05:33.823 But as soon as that person does something that they don't like, 00:05:33.943 --> 00:05:35.843 then boom, they are suddenly the worst. 00:05:36.223 --> 00:05:39.663 And this kind of flip-flopping is emotional whiplash. 00:05:39.883 --> 00:05:43.663 One day you are on a pedestal and the next you are in the doghouse. 00:05:43.863 --> 00:05:48.283 And the crazy part is it's not because of something big that you even did. 00:05:48.543 --> 00:05:53.663 It can be as simple as saying no to a request are not emphatically agreeing 00:05:53.663 --> 00:05:55.163 with the emotionally immature. 00:05:55.643 --> 00:05:59.883 So suddenly you are not the hero anymore. You become the villain in their eyes. 00:05:59.923 --> 00:06:03.143 But later, if you do something that they like, then just like that, 00:06:03.263 --> 00:06:06.003 you're back to being amazing. It's that concept that I call, 00:06:06.103 --> 00:06:06.883 hey, do you want to ride bikes? 00:06:07.303 --> 00:06:11.743 They could have just decimated you because you suddenly were somebody that just 00:06:11.743 --> 00:06:13.283 frustrated them and you went against them. 00:06:13.403 --> 00:06:16.803 But that makes them feel better. That alleviates their discomfort. Right? 00:06:17.171 --> 00:06:20.151 And so they're good. Where do you want to go to dinner? And it's a really tough 00:06:20.151 --> 00:06:22.811 cycle, especially for somebody in a relationship with a person like this, 00:06:22.871 --> 00:06:24.631 because you never know where you stand. 00:06:24.951 --> 00:06:29.791 And one minute you are the very apple of their eye, then the next you're on their bad side. 00:06:29.951 --> 00:06:33.591 And it's like trying to ride a, I don't know, a seesaw that's moving way too 00:06:33.591 --> 00:06:35.811 fast. It's disorienting. It's exhausting. 00:06:36.131 --> 00:06:39.091 And you really don't know when you're just going to get thrown off of the thing. 00:06:39.631 --> 00:06:44.371 So that's what we're going to try to unpack more of today is how do you deal with this? 00:06:44.491 --> 00:06:47.851 How do you protect yourself from this emotional whiplash? And I have some examples 00:06:47.851 --> 00:06:52.311 from the Private Women's Facebook group that will be equally harrowing, 00:06:52.311 --> 00:06:54.691 that will be equal parts bad. 00:06:54.851 --> 00:06:58.111 And then also people are going to feel heard and understood today because this 00:06:58.111 --> 00:07:00.891 is one of those concepts that I see in my office all the time. 00:07:00.891 --> 00:07:04.511 So, let's now go back to Sarah and Mike. 00:07:04.691 --> 00:07:07.831 And I'm going to take a look at from both of their points of view, 00:07:07.911 --> 00:07:10.491 from Mike's and then from Sarah's. We'll start with Mike. 00:07:10.751 --> 00:07:14.051 Because if you look more at Mike's view, Mike, as we'll see, 00:07:14.171 --> 00:07:18.571 I think is a classic example of somebody deeply affected by emotional immaturity. 00:07:18.991 --> 00:07:22.171 And most likely, it stems from a pretty turbulent childhood. 00:07:22.491 --> 00:07:27.151 He probably never really saw emotional consistency while he was growing up in his parents. 00:07:27.151 --> 00:07:30.051 Parents and his household was probably more 00:07:30.051 --> 00:07:33.591 of a patchwork of a lot of unpredictable moods and reactions so 00:07:33.591 --> 00:07:36.411 mike as a kid probably never knew what he 00:07:36.411 --> 00:07:40.791 was going to get so love and attention were given one moment and then withdrawn 00:07:40.791 --> 00:07:45.551 the next and this lack of stable emotional modeling then most likely left mike 00:07:45.551 --> 00:07:49.491 with a shaky foundation then as an adult he develops a series of unhealthy coping 00:07:49.491 --> 00:07:53.671 strategies but these are his tools and what's fascinating is there's tools even 00:07:53.671 --> 00:07:54.411 though though they're flawed, 00:07:54.651 --> 00:07:57.251 for navigating the emotional complexities of life. 00:07:57.391 --> 00:08:01.231 This is, in Mike's world, how he gets rid of his discomfort, 00:08:01.391 --> 00:08:03.831 how he gets a command of a situation or control. 00:08:04.874 --> 00:08:10.894 But his self-esteem is like a house built on sand. It's unstable and it's constantly shifting. 00:08:11.294 --> 00:08:15.034 And Mike relies heavily on external validation to feel good about himself. 00:08:15.314 --> 00:08:18.894 And he needs constant reassurance from others, especially Sarah, 00:08:19.074 --> 00:08:20.154 to prop up his self-worth. 00:08:20.294 --> 00:08:23.354 And this can be so foreign when this is an adult human being. 00:08:23.674 --> 00:08:27.014 I often say that when you step back and see the emotionally immature narcissist, 00:08:27.174 --> 00:08:29.114 it's like a little kid playing dress-up in a suit. 00:08:29.334 --> 00:08:34.354 But then that little kid has the power to be extremely violent or emotionally abusive. Yusuf. 00:08:34.414 --> 00:08:40.274 He needs constant reassurance from others and back to especially Sarah to make him feel of worth. 00:08:40.634 --> 00:08:44.354 It's this false self. And then this need for external validation, 00:08:44.514 --> 00:08:49.114 that is a calling card of somebody who didn't receive consistent emotional support 00:08:49.114 --> 00:08:50.614 during their formative years. 00:08:51.074 --> 00:08:54.474 And then empathy, the ability to understand and share the feelings of another 00:08:54.474 --> 00:08:57.794 is incredibly low in Mike's emotional toolkit. 00:08:58.214 --> 00:09:02.934 And this lack of empathy is not necessarily intentional, but it is a byproduct of his upbringing. 00:09:03.294 --> 00:09:07.834 He's so focused on managing his own emotional turmoil that he struggles to recognize 00:09:07.834 --> 00:09:11.694 and respond to the emotional needs of others, including Sarah and his kids. 00:09:12.294 --> 00:09:15.434 And then another significant aspect of Mike's emotional immaturity is his inability 00:09:15.434 --> 00:09:17.094 to sit with any discomfort whatsoever. 00:09:17.434 --> 00:09:23.154 He can't stand feeling flawed or at fault. And by nature, we're wired to get rid of our discomfort. 00:09:23.314 --> 00:09:27.234 So it takes a lot of intention and work to be able to to sit with that discomfort 00:09:27.234 --> 00:09:30.814 to try to say, what are my feelings trying to communicate to me? 00:09:31.374 --> 00:09:34.434 But then when you are trying to get rid of that discomfort, avoid discomfort, 00:09:34.634 --> 00:09:37.574 then that aversion to discomfort, it leads him into this defensive stance. 00:09:38.094 --> 00:09:42.394 And then he is going to deny his own shortcomings. He's going to shift blames to others. 00:09:42.674 --> 00:09:45.354 And then when he's faced with a situation that might paint him in a bad light, 00:09:45.494 --> 00:09:48.874 then he's very quick to rewrite the whole narrative because it's easy for him 00:09:48.874 --> 00:09:49.954 to say, I didn't say that. 00:09:50.334 --> 00:09:53.894 Then to confront the possibility that he might have said something that upset 00:09:53.894 --> 00:09:57.974 somebody else or that might have contradicted what he had said earlier. 00:09:58.314 --> 00:10:02.834 Because in Mike's world, people and things are either all good or all bad. 00:10:03.668 --> 00:10:06.828 And this goes back to where that concept of whole object relations and object 00:10:06.828 --> 00:10:08.168 constancy comes back into play. 00:10:08.528 --> 00:10:11.888 Mike struggles with these concepts because he can't hold this nuanced view of 00:10:11.888 --> 00:10:13.188 people, including himself. 00:10:13.588 --> 00:10:19.068 In his eyes, Sarah is either the perfect wife and perfect mother or a complete failure. 00:10:19.268 --> 00:10:24.108 And his opinions, his feelings, they swing wildly back and forth because he 00:10:24.108 --> 00:10:28.468 can't integrate the good that she is and who she is. 00:10:28.468 --> 00:10:33.108 And then his, I don't even like saying in bad, but the things that he does not 00:10:33.108 --> 00:10:37.348 like or appreciate, he can't integrate those into a cohesive whole person. 00:10:37.468 --> 00:10:41.168 I do feel like understanding Mike's background, it will start to shed a little 00:10:41.168 --> 00:10:43.948 bit of light on the emotional rollercoaster that Sarah experiences. 00:10:43.948 --> 00:10:45.588 I'm not trying to justify Mike's behavior. 00:10:46.148 --> 00:10:50.788 And this is where in my pillar one of my four pillars of a connected conversation, 00:10:51.068 --> 00:10:55.168 in a healthy relationship, I say that we need to assume good intentions, 00:10:55.368 --> 00:10:58.588 that no one wakes up in the morning and says, I can't wait to hurt my partner. 00:10:58.588 --> 00:11:07.948 But I put a part B into that or a 1.5 with regard to the emotionally immature narcissistic people. 00:11:08.048 --> 00:11:11.388 Or there's a reason why they show up or behave the way they do. 00:11:11.568 --> 00:11:16.628 And a lot of it might be because of the things that I've shared here about Mike's background. ground. 00:11:16.648 --> 00:11:23.168 Because his lack of consistency is about this deep-rooted emotional turmoil 00:11:23.168 --> 00:11:24.368 and challenges that he's had. 00:11:24.888 --> 00:11:28.908 Challenges that stem from a lifetime of coping with unstable self-esteem and 00:11:28.908 --> 00:11:34.308 a craving for external validation and a profound difficulty in facing personal faults. 00:11:35.248 --> 00:11:39.488 And this story, I think it's a real window into the struggles faced by many 00:11:39.488 --> 00:11:41.428 in relationships with emotionally immature individuals. 00:11:41.648 --> 00:11:45.028 Because it's a journey of trying to navigate and make sense of of these unpredictable 00:11:45.028 --> 00:11:50.088 emotional landscapes, trying to understand the roots of these behaviors and finding a path forward. 00:11:50.822 --> 00:11:54.262 Bless your heart, those who are in that world. And if you are that pathologically 00:11:54.262 --> 00:11:57.962 kind, because it will feel like it's something that you are doing wrong. 00:11:58.402 --> 00:12:03.082 But hopefully this brings awareness to help you understand that it's not a you 00:12:03.082 --> 00:12:04.322 issue, it's a them issue. you. 00:12:04.562 --> 00:12:07.962 And so often one of the best things you can do, and I'm not even saying that 00:12:07.962 --> 00:12:10.762 you have to get out of the relationship because I know that's difficult as well. 00:12:11.062 --> 00:12:15.362 But if you are in a spot where you are still feeling like you are going crazy, 00:12:15.382 --> 00:12:19.042 trying to give that other person the aha moment or the epiphany that maybe this 00:12:19.042 --> 00:12:23.442 episode today will help you drop that rope of the tug of war and be able to 00:12:23.442 --> 00:12:28.002 just sit and be and understand that maybe I am okay just being and doing. 00:12:28.682 --> 00:12:33.082 So now, let me jump over and look at where Sarah is coming from. 00:12:33.202 --> 00:12:37.342 Because if we step into Sarah's shoes, here's a woman whose kindness and desire 00:12:37.342 --> 00:12:41.402 to do the right thing put her in a challenging dance with Mike's ever-changing 00:12:41.402 --> 00:12:44.142 moods and demands. Because they are ever-changing. 00:12:44.942 --> 00:12:50.142 And we can look at this again as either the Mike or Sarah in this situation 00:12:50.142 --> 00:12:53.162 as the pathologically kind or the emotionally immature. 00:12:53.162 --> 00:12:57.062 Mature, that it isn't always the man who is the more emotionally mature, 00:12:57.262 --> 00:13:00.202 and it isn't always the woman who is more pathologically kind. 00:13:00.362 --> 00:13:03.002 But for the sake of this example, this is where we're going. 00:13:04.122 --> 00:13:06.322 So, now let's go back and take a little deeper look at Sarah. 00:13:06.522 --> 00:13:08.982 She is ever the empathetic and caring partner. 00:13:09.122 --> 00:13:12.002 She's deeply committed to her family's well-being. And here's one of the big 00:13:12.002 --> 00:13:15.622 keys. She trusts Mike, and she believes that he has her best interest at heart. 00:13:15.822 --> 00:13:18.382 So, when Mike says that she's spending too much time with the kids, 00:13:18.502 --> 00:13:21.202 Sarah takes his words to heart. She thinks, okay, okay, maybe he's right. 00:13:21.322 --> 00:13:22.402 Maybe I'm missing something. 00:13:22.722 --> 00:13:26.662 So she adjusts her schedule. She cuts back on kid time. And she's honestly trying 00:13:26.662 --> 00:13:28.982 to strike or find this right balance. 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:33.899 But this shift comes at a cost because Sarah then feels guilty for not spending 00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:36.739 as much time with her children. She absolutely loves being a mom. 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:40.879 And then as kids do, they start to act up and they crave more of their mom's attention. 00:13:41.299 --> 00:13:45.099 And then this new behavior doesn't sit well with Mike. He sees it as a sign 00:13:45.099 --> 00:13:46.839 that Sarah isn't managing the kids properly. 00:13:47.199 --> 00:13:51.619 So it's a no-win situation for her. She's caught in a whirlwind of trying to 00:13:51.619 --> 00:13:55.299 please Mike and care for her children and manage her own feelings of inadequacy. 00:13:55.359 --> 00:13:58.299 And then Mike, again, we already talked about, he's shaped by his emotionally 00:13:58.299 --> 00:14:00.979 inconsistent consistent childhood, then he's operating from this deep, 00:14:01.059 --> 00:14:05.539 deep need just to interact with another human being to affirm his own existence. 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:10.219 And I know that can sound so kind of out there or deep, but to the emotionally 00:14:10.219 --> 00:14:12.919 immature, sometimes when people say, why did they do that? 00:14:13.199 --> 00:14:16.799 And I really believe it comes from a place of they just need to interact with 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:18.159 another human being to know they exist. 00:14:18.299 --> 00:14:21.259 Once they interact with that other human being, now they know what to do with 00:14:21.259 --> 00:14:24.119 that. Okay, now I can tell you you're wrong and I'm right. 00:14:24.359 --> 00:14:28.739 Or I can put you in that one down position. position. Because that's what Mike 00:14:28.739 --> 00:14:31.879 often finds himself doing, trying to find himself and put himself in a one-up 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:37.219 position in any of the interactions, using everything from question and criticize 00:14:37.219 --> 00:14:39.259 as tools to then assert his control. 00:14:39.459 --> 00:14:43.679 Because in his mind, questioning Sarah's choices isn't just about finding fault. 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:47.439 It's a way to alleviate his own discomfort and assert his presence. 00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:52.619 So each time Mike challenges Sarah, it's as if he kind of comes a little more alive. 00:14:52.619 --> 00:14:57.599 He temporarily eases his own inner turmoil and he leaves the conversation as 00:14:57.599 --> 00:15:00.999 almost feeling like, well, okay, we're resolved, ready to move on to the next 00:15:00.999 --> 00:15:02.939 activity. But Sarah is left reeling. 00:15:03.379 --> 00:15:07.619 She then is left filled with doubt and confusion. What's wrong with me? Am I the crazy person? 00:15:07.939 --> 00:15:11.639 And she's constantly second guessing herself and she wonders why she can't seem 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:13.179 to do anything right in Mike's eyes. 00:15:13.739 --> 00:15:20.119 His approval, which she has sought for a long time, feels like this elusive, just moving target. 00:15:21.187 --> 00:15:24.947 So, in this dynamic, Sarah embodies the struggle of so many who find themselves 00:15:24.947 --> 00:15:27.627 in relationships with emotionally inconsistent people. 00:15:28.067 --> 00:15:31.627 She's the one perpetually in the one down position, airing all the emotional 00:15:31.627 --> 00:15:34.267 weight of Mike's shifting needs and his perceptions. 00:15:34.867 --> 00:15:39.027 And then every interaction that they have, not every, most all the interactions 00:15:39.027 --> 00:15:43.127 that they have, they leave almost like a little scar, this lingering question 00:15:43.127 --> 00:15:45.867 about her own worth and capabilities. 00:15:46.267 --> 00:15:49.247 She starts to lose her sense of self. so this 00:15:49.247 --> 00:15:52.307 isn't just about the challenges that sarah faces but 00:15:52.307 --> 00:15:55.487 it's really you got to look deeper into how kindness 00:15:55.487 --> 00:15:58.747 and empathy can sometimes lead us into cycles of self-doubt 00:15:58.747 --> 00:16:03.867 and emotional turmoil emotional whiplash so it's about letting the journey of 00:16:03.867 --> 00:16:08.027 recognizing these patterns and then finding the strength to seek a balance that 00:16:08.027 --> 00:16:13.067 honors both our need for kindness and our own well-being there's no part of 00:16:13.067 --> 00:16:17.247 me that wants somebody that is kind by nature that that's a of value they have of kindness to think, 00:16:17.367 --> 00:16:21.607 okay, I guess I need to not be kind anymore because now all of a sudden we're 00:16:21.607 --> 00:16:23.127 going against our very own sense of self. 00:16:23.647 --> 00:16:25.927 But who do I offer that kindness to? 00:16:26.467 --> 00:16:30.507 Because that's a gift that I'm giving to somebody and I really think that they 00:16:30.507 --> 00:16:32.087 need to treat that like such. 00:16:32.527 --> 00:16:34.907 We're going to continue to dive a little bit deeper into the, 00:16:34.967 --> 00:16:38.107 you'll see a lot of examples of the complexities of these relationships. 00:16:38.507 --> 00:16:43.647 And then hopefully you will be able to pull out some takeaways that might help 00:16:43.647 --> 00:16:45.807 you feel more heard and understood. 00:16:46.267 --> 00:16:51.287 And then I will try to comment along the way of just what maybe is going on 00:16:51.287 --> 00:16:53.107 here or what are some of the best things that you can do. 00:16:54.126 --> 00:16:58.186 So the origin story of this episode comes off of last week's episode where I 00:16:58.186 --> 00:17:02.566 talked about the quote from the book Rethinking Narcissism. I ended up doing 00:17:02.566 --> 00:17:09.026 a Facebook Live within the Facebook group and it became the podcast that went out last week. 00:17:09.286 --> 00:17:12.426 But there was something that I shared on there about, and I used the phrase 00:17:12.426 --> 00:17:16.846 emotional inconsistency, and there was someone there that said they wanted to hear more about it. 00:17:17.166 --> 00:17:21.086 And it's something that I've been making a large piece of my upcoming men's 00:17:21.086 --> 00:17:23.926 group in particular was trying to show up and be more emotionally consistent. 00:17:24.646 --> 00:17:28.246 And so then I went out to the Facebook group and I asked for more examples of 00:17:28.246 --> 00:17:31.706 where people see this examples of emotional whiplash. 00:17:32.206 --> 00:17:37.406 And I'll be very, very upfront. The death by a thousand cuts episodes, 00:17:37.506 --> 00:17:40.666 I often hear people feel so seen and so heard. 00:17:40.866 --> 00:17:45.706 And so I know that there might be a little bit of similarity in emotional whiplash 00:17:45.706 --> 00:17:48.506 with some of the death by a thousand cuts, but I really feel like the emotional 00:17:48.506 --> 00:17:50.566 whiplash is significantly different. 00:17:50.726 --> 00:17:54.366 The death by by a thousand cuts can just be a series of just tiny little things 00:17:54.366 --> 00:17:59.586 that eat away at somebody where then this emotional whiplash is where I don't 00:17:59.586 --> 00:18:02.806 think that the emotionally immature realize that they can say to their, 00:18:02.806 --> 00:18:04.946 their partner, you are a horrible person. 00:18:04.986 --> 00:18:10.206 And I don't even know why I'm with you one minute. And then later just feel like, Hey, we're good. 00:18:10.486 --> 00:18:14.766 Because that, that takes something out of the person, the kind person, it really does. 00:18:15.366 --> 00:18:19.286 So if you hear these these examples today of emotional whiplash and you have 00:18:19.286 --> 00:18:22.746 some of your own, please send them in to contact at tonyoverbay.com because 00:18:22.746 --> 00:18:24.866 I would really love to get those on a future episode as well. 00:18:25.546 --> 00:18:29.026 So let me just read some of these. The person said, what you said in your recording 00:18:29.026 --> 00:18:32.686 about emotional consistency was gold and provided even more clarity. 00:18:33.026 --> 00:18:36.286 She said, when your spouse is okay with you going out with friends one day, 00:18:36.346 --> 00:18:40.226 then accuses you of cheating the next time you go out or gets angry that you 00:18:40.226 --> 00:18:41.406 forgot the milk at the store. 00:18:41.526 --> 00:18:44.526 And then two weeks later is exceptionally exceptionally gracious that you forgot 00:18:44.526 --> 00:18:46.246 the eggs and offers to go out and get them. 00:18:46.686 --> 00:18:50.746 She said that contributes so heavily to the cognitive dissonance and the crazy making. 00:18:51.939 --> 00:18:55.959 So welcome to the world of emotional whiplash. Another person said, 00:18:56.059 --> 00:18:59.159 in regard to making decisions about the house we own and having questions for 00:18:59.159 --> 00:19:02.559 the mortgage company, he very rudely said, well, you're the one that wants to 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.019 assume the loan. You email him. 00:19:04.159 --> 00:19:07.319 And an hour later, he wants to be cooperative and offers to send the email. 00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:12.419 And another person said that he was okay with me taking the kids on a vacation 00:19:12.419 --> 00:19:15.139 without him then randomly said, yeah, I've been thinking about that. 00:19:15.239 --> 00:19:17.059 And I don't really think that's a good idea anymore. 00:19:17.239 --> 00:19:20.659 I'm going to call legal office and find out if you can even do that. this was 00:19:20.659 --> 00:19:23.539 during i think a divorce so in text a week later 00:19:23.539 --> 00:19:26.459 then he said he won't be fighting me on 00:19:26.459 --> 00:19:29.379 taking the kids anywhere this summer another person 00:19:29.379 --> 00:19:32.199 said that her husband says all the 00:19:32.199 --> 00:19:36.079 time that he's supportive of her going out with friends and says yeah i can 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:41.539 watch the kids but she said then when i tell him the plans or i'm getting ready 00:19:41.539 --> 00:19:46.119 to go then he says i thought you don't stay out past your bedtime or how much 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:49.339 do you plan on drinking or why don't you just stay home and drink with me anymore. 00:19:49.579 --> 00:19:50.939 Are you going out single tonight? 00:19:51.439 --> 00:19:55.119 And then she said, the back and forth has begun. And she said, it is relentless. 00:19:56.299 --> 00:19:59.559 Another person said that when they finally decided to go out with friends after 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:04.959 years of isolation, then I warned him weeks in advance, then the week of, 00:20:04.979 --> 00:20:06.479 and then a few days ahead of time. 00:20:06.499 --> 00:20:09.819 And then the night of that I would be staying out late and he needed to put the kids to bed. 00:20:10.399 --> 00:20:14.579 As soon as I was gone, I got multiple angry texts from him asking, 00:20:14.699 --> 00:20:15.619 when was I going to be home? 00:20:15.859 --> 00:20:20.319 And when I got ahold of the kids later that That night, they said dad was asleep 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:21.479 and they were still awake. 00:20:21.859 --> 00:20:24.539 Another person said they had something that's been on their mind now that they're 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:26.319 divorced and having to cover all their own expenses. 00:20:26.979 --> 00:20:31.039 She said, I'm afraid to do car repairs and maintenance. I've been financially 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.199 dependent on this person for almost the last 20 years. 00:20:34.639 --> 00:20:37.899 So I would always run it by him when I needed maintenance or repairs done. 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.439 Over the phone, when I would ask him about doing maintenance on a car. 00:20:42.159 --> 00:20:44.919 I would run the numbers by him and everything would be hunky-dory. 00:20:45.019 --> 00:20:48.379 Yeah, yeah, no problem. Do whatever you need to do. The car needs to be safe for you and the kids. 00:20:48.919 --> 00:20:52.099 But she said, inevitably, that evening or the next day after it's been done, 00:20:52.239 --> 00:20:56.599 then I would feel attacked with so much guilt of spending all his money and 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:58.179 my driving gets brought up. 00:20:58.339 --> 00:21:01.359 She said, mind you, I do drive like a bit of a grandma. 00:21:01.919 --> 00:21:05.179 But she said that then it's my fault that certain repairs need to be done. 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:09.279 She said, when I eventually talked to a mechanic, I was told it's just regular 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.579 repairs needed for the life and mileage of my vehicle. 00:21:11.879 --> 00:21:15.419 I've even had a very experienced mechanic tell me that the engine sounds great. 00:21:15.419 --> 00:21:18.499 And I've been taking care of my car. But she said, I digress. 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:23.859 I get a kind, caring person who is all for doing these repairs to then him yelling, 00:21:24.019 --> 00:21:27.259 berating and guilting me for doing the repair and spending his money. 00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:31.579 She said the most memorable quotes from him, it's just great that we can spend 00:21:31.579 --> 00:21:34.959 all this money on your car and not even put one payment on my car. 00:21:35.199 --> 00:21:38.019 She said we had plenty of money and at that time hardly struggled. 00:21:38.239 --> 00:21:43.079 And it's almost like you're stupid or something and don't know how to maintain a car correctly. 00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.639 She said, I did a lot of my own regular repairs with my own hands for years 00:21:46.639 --> 00:21:48.339 before it got this bad with him. 00:21:49.202 --> 00:21:51.742 I have been fearful for many years to call them and just say, 00:21:51.862 --> 00:21:53.942 hey, the car needs the oil change. Is that all right? 00:21:54.262 --> 00:21:58.302 Leaving that person that you care about in this state where they're afraid to 00:21:58.302 --> 00:22:01.482 even make a call because they don't know which version they're going to get. 00:22:01.722 --> 00:22:03.242 That is that emotional whiplash. 00:22:03.742 --> 00:22:07.482 Another person said one week he ripped me up and down about going $20 over a 00:22:07.482 --> 00:22:09.042 grocery budget to the next. 00:22:09.102 --> 00:22:12.382 He was extremely kind when I called him in tears because I went $10 over and 00:22:12.382 --> 00:22:14.542 was asking what I could return to make budget. 00:22:14.882 --> 00:22:16.922 And he was tender saying things like, hey, it's okay. 00:22:17.322 --> 00:22:20.882 Don't worry about it. We're okay on bills. and then mixed in little comments 00:22:20.882 --> 00:22:23.322 like, where's this all coming from? Why are you emotional? 00:22:24.022 --> 00:22:28.502 It's really not a problem. Are you okay? And she said, this cycle would repeat every week. 00:22:28.842 --> 00:22:32.882 I think one of the famous phrases that I hear from the narcissist or the emotionally 00:22:32.882 --> 00:22:36.942 immature people that enter my office from time to time are, well, you know me. 00:22:37.562 --> 00:22:42.062 I love that because you can always see the person that is with them saying, 00:22:42.162 --> 00:22:43.982 I have no idea. I don't know who you are. 00:22:44.622 --> 00:22:46.822 Whatever is about to come out next is going to be completely inconsistent. 00:22:47.202 --> 00:22:49.882 Another person shared that they love to paint and they would be excited over 00:22:49.882 --> 00:22:50.542 something they painted. 00:22:50.602 --> 00:22:54.162 One day, her spouse would say, hey, good job, babe. 00:22:54.262 --> 00:22:56.902 To the next day, well, that's just great that you get to sit around all day 00:22:56.902 --> 00:22:59.402 and paint and none of the other house projects get done. 00:23:00.002 --> 00:23:03.162 And will you stay up late and paint and you don't want to spend any time with me? 00:23:03.842 --> 00:23:07.042 And she said, I lost my desire to paint and now it's really hard to bring it back. 00:23:07.862 --> 00:23:11.622 Another person said, having just moved countries again for a husband's job, 00:23:11.822 --> 00:23:16.162 we started the process of discussing how to be allocated a monthly allowance for me and the kids. 00:23:16.502 --> 00:23:20.722 For weeks, he's been saying how excited he is to finally open a joint bank account with me. 00:23:21.282 --> 00:23:25.142 Well, the day comes and we are in the car park on the way to the bank. 00:23:25.542 --> 00:23:29.182 And he looks at me and says, you know what? I don't even know if you love me 00:23:29.182 --> 00:23:32.102 enough. Do you love me enough? Can you show me that you love me? 00:23:32.882 --> 00:23:38.102 She said, I am then stuck looking dumbfounded and confused watching him walk back to the car. 00:23:38.642 --> 00:23:42.262 About a week later, he leaves for a work trip and I ask how I'm going to pay 00:23:42.262 --> 00:23:45.642 the bills and feed the kids while he's gone. Do I get cash? 00:23:46.142 --> 00:23:48.922 And he turns and he says, what a shame. You couldn't answer my question. 00:23:49.522 --> 00:23:52.442 I would love to open a joint bank account with you, but let's do that when I get back. 00:23:53.042 --> 00:23:56.122 But now she said, we've done this dance for way too long. And she said, 00:23:56.202 --> 00:24:00.282 just to be clear, he assures me that this is not financial control or abuse. 00:24:00.642 --> 00:24:02.682 It's just him not feeling like I love him enough. 00:24:03.622 --> 00:24:08.002 Side note, she said he works away and has been only home for just little bits at a time. 00:24:08.462 --> 00:24:11.382 And trust me enough to be the full-time primary a married parent for our kids, 00:24:11.502 --> 00:24:15.422 but I'm apparently not loving enough to have access to the money, 00:24:15.482 --> 00:24:17.582 but he would love to open that account with me. 00:24:18.613 --> 00:24:22.993 Again, that's the kind of thing that breaks my heart. Love or control in an 00:24:22.993 --> 00:24:24.353 adult relationship? Which one? 00:24:25.513 --> 00:24:28.193 Another person said, I was once told that we didn't have enough money for pizza 00:24:28.193 --> 00:24:30.233 on a Friday night. She said, we definitely did. 00:24:30.713 --> 00:24:34.353 And I was berated for always wanting to spend money that I never cook. 00:24:34.573 --> 00:24:39.933 And an hour later, a friend calls of his and wants us all to go to the city overnight. 00:24:41.073 --> 00:24:44.413 And we do it. Everything. Hotel, sightseeing. 00:24:44.973 --> 00:24:49.213 We go out to eat. to this day, my kids and I will still ask about the magic 00:24:49.213 --> 00:24:51.913 checkbook that all of a sudden allowed this trip to happen. 00:24:52.133 --> 00:24:56.893 But just shortly before, it did not have enough in it for pizza. 00:24:56.993 --> 00:25:01.993 Kind of reminds me of the Harry Potter tents where you walk in and now it's a whole house. 00:25:02.813 --> 00:25:05.793 Another person said, I remember once going to a barbecue in our neighbor's backyard. 00:25:05.953 --> 00:25:10.853 When I went to sit down, I left a seat for my ex. He decided not to sit by me, 00:25:10.953 --> 00:25:13.933 saying there wasn't enough room and went up to to their kitchen to eat. 00:25:14.093 --> 00:25:17.593 And of course, later then, I was accused of having an affair with the neighbor. 00:25:17.833 --> 00:25:23.853 Another person said that their teenage daughter with her ex said that her dad, 00:25:24.413 --> 00:25:28.193 said she's not welcome back into his house until she can respect him. 00:25:28.353 --> 00:25:32.993 This is the 15-year-old. Respect him, but then told her that he can't pay for 00:25:32.993 --> 00:25:37.053 her to do some things this summer that she desperately wants to because he's 00:25:37.053 --> 00:25:39.613 saving to add additional rooms onto his house. 00:25:40.233 --> 00:25:43.493 And she said that he has been just a real 00:25:43.493 --> 00:25:46.353 pain in the rear the last few weeks 00:25:46.353 --> 00:25:49.953 but then also had messaged a couple of days ago and 00:25:49.953 --> 00:25:56.933 said that he had saved some rib bones for her dogs so she said she did not stop 00:25:56.933 --> 00:26:02.773 and get the bones some of these can be very drastic a person shared that their 00:26:02.773 --> 00:26:06.653 their ex had decided to quit his job and didn't discuss it with her she said 00:26:06.653 --> 00:26:07.693 i really tried to to be supportive. 00:26:08.053 --> 00:26:13.873 And then he set up a meeting with someone that he knew to then help me meal 00:26:13.873 --> 00:26:15.393 prep for our very large family. 00:26:15.753 --> 00:26:18.553 This woman took care of everything. She baked her own bread. 00:26:18.593 --> 00:26:20.493 She grew a garden. Very admirable woman. 00:26:21.404 --> 00:26:26.764 But she said it was a real big fluctuation to have had this really high income 00:26:26.764 --> 00:26:31.084 and then to plan to live off savings and things like food storage for who knows how long. 00:26:31.264 --> 00:26:33.424 But she said, I was game. I tried to adjust. 00:26:34.084 --> 00:26:38.304 And the next thing you know, though, one of his friends put his house up for sale. 00:26:38.684 --> 00:26:42.004 And all of a sudden, he wanted to buy a new home, a trophy home, 00:26:42.084 --> 00:26:45.604 as a matter of fact, way beyond our means, especially because he had no job. 00:26:46.204 --> 00:26:49.084 Now, all of a sudden, he wanted to liquidate all the assets to buy it. 00:26:49.724 --> 00:26:53.804 She said, I literally just gotten into grinding wheat and food storage mode. 00:26:54.004 --> 00:26:55.284 She said, it just felt so extreme. 00:26:55.824 --> 00:27:00.024 And then she said she was accused of not supporting him or letting him lead 00:27:00.024 --> 00:27:03.644 because she said she was reluctant about the purchase. 00:27:03.964 --> 00:27:07.464 She said, I felt like that truly was decision-making whiplash. 00:27:08.144 --> 00:27:12.364 Someone else said their ex counted everything. If one cracker was missing, 00:27:12.484 --> 00:27:13.404 then he would go ballistic. 00:27:13.644 --> 00:27:17.884 One night he got extremely mad at the kids because somebody ate two ice cream bars that day. 00:27:18.484 --> 00:27:21.484 I reminded him that our daughter had had a friend over. That wasn't acceptable 00:27:21.484 --> 00:27:25.164 to him. He just knew it was my son and my son was lying to us. 00:27:25.344 --> 00:27:28.504 He had my son so screwed up in the head that he finally just admitted to eating 00:27:28.504 --> 00:27:32.684 two ice creams that day. So his stepdad would stop screaming and punishing everybody. 00:27:33.064 --> 00:27:36.904 The next morning I got up super early and I used our grocery budget for that 00:27:36.904 --> 00:27:40.924 week and I bought every last one of his ice cream in the store's freezer. 00:27:41.204 --> 00:27:46.724 I didn't say one word to him, but I told my kids to not eat any more ice creams 00:27:46.724 --> 00:27:49.704 and we would just be eating ramen and PB&J that week. 00:27:50.164 --> 00:27:54.044 They were fine because they knew it would calm the storm. But that afternoon 00:27:54.044 --> 00:27:56.944 when my ex finally got out of bed to get one of his precious ice creams, 00:27:57.124 --> 00:28:00.624 he saw all the boxes and told me I was insane for doing that. 00:28:00.724 --> 00:28:05.804 Because now, he said he was just joking the night before and he doesn't care at all. 00:28:05.944 --> 00:28:08.244 He likes that he can buy special treats for the kids. 00:28:08.664 --> 00:28:12.004 My kids and I never ate another one of those ice creams. And yes, 00:28:12.204 --> 00:28:15.444 since I referenced the crackers earlier, earlier he 00:28:15.444 --> 00:28:18.604 would count everyone's cracker intake during dinner and 00:28:18.604 --> 00:28:21.964 to make sure none of us ate more than him another person 00:28:21.964 --> 00:28:24.824 said i was told many times that he was a big boy 00:28:24.824 --> 00:28:28.124 and he could do his own laundry yet if i didn't have him a clean work shirt 00:28:28.124 --> 00:28:32.724 or pants then i would be woken up at 4 a.m by clothes being ripped apart drawers 00:28:32.724 --> 00:28:37.264 being thrown shoes being kicked across the room because he was being quiet looking 00:28:37.264 --> 00:28:41.404 for something clean to wear so then i finally got to a point where i would would 00:28:41.404 --> 00:28:42.304 wait till he fell asleep, 00:28:42.444 --> 00:28:46.684 and then throw in clothes on quick cycles so that he had them the next morning, 00:28:46.804 --> 00:28:48.844 only to be told he hated that shirt. 00:28:49.204 --> 00:28:52.084 Mind you, for the last three months, it had been his favorite. 00:28:53.173 --> 00:28:56.333 Another person said, one morning before school, I had scripture study with the 00:28:56.333 --> 00:28:58.433 kids because my hubby was pouting. 00:28:58.673 --> 00:29:02.873 He was so angry that he knocked a glass 9x13 pan of cinnamon rolls off the stove 00:29:02.873 --> 00:29:04.773 to the floor. There was a mess everywhere. 00:29:05.173 --> 00:29:08.233 He yelled and he demeans and then takes a shower. 00:29:08.733 --> 00:29:12.533 Shaking and upset, I leave the mess and take the kids to find fast food for breakfast. 00:29:13.033 --> 00:29:16.813 I call in my boss to cover work for me for a few hours, just saying I have an emergency. 00:29:17.133 --> 00:29:20.133 The hubby and I work at the same place. Now after eating, they want to go to 00:29:20.133 --> 00:29:24.953 school so I can take them. him. I wait a while and I get home and I clean up and I get dressed. 00:29:25.373 --> 00:29:29.793 Hubby isn't there. The mess is partially cleaned up. I hurry and I get ready to go to work. 00:29:29.973 --> 00:29:34.093 As I'm pulling out of the driveway, he drives up and parks. I start to pull 00:29:34.093 --> 00:29:36.393 out and I see him waving at me to stop in my rearview mirror. 00:29:36.633 --> 00:29:42.173 He looks calm, so I stop. I roll my window down about two inches and I start 00:29:42.173 --> 00:29:44.353 shaking at the sight of him standing by the window. 00:29:44.673 --> 00:29:46.693 He very gently says, are you okay? 00:29:47.153 --> 00:29:50.193 Your boss is covering for you and they're super worried about you. 00:29:50.373 --> 00:29:52.113 Are you sure you don't need to just stay home and rest? 00:29:52.953 --> 00:29:56.633 And she said, what? I just said, did you tell her why I'm upset? 00:29:56.833 --> 00:29:58.973 And then he said, no, I don't think she needs to know the details. 00:29:59.093 --> 00:30:02.213 I just told her that you had had a rough morning. Don't you wanna stay home and rest? 00:30:02.893 --> 00:30:06.693 Staying busy is better for me. Another person said, oh, this is such a good topic. 00:30:06.813 --> 00:30:10.953 My husband will act super loving and say all the nice things and give so much gentle touch. 00:30:11.333 --> 00:30:15.553 And then later we'll cross physical boundaries, random groping or sexual coercion. 00:30:15.953 --> 00:30:18.633 And then when I gently assert my boundaries and try to move away, 00:30:18.853 --> 00:30:22.833 he will automatically switch to silent sulky mode and stay that way for days. 00:30:23.013 --> 00:30:26.893 I definitely feel the whiplash even knowing what's coming and bracing for it. 00:30:27.724 --> 00:30:30.544 I know we've touched on this on some of the previous episodes and I want to 00:30:30.544 --> 00:30:36.324 get more into this in future episodes, but that is that sexual coercion or there's a price to pay. 00:30:36.644 --> 00:30:40.464 And then when someone then withdraws, they become sullen, sulky, 00:30:40.544 --> 00:30:44.784 that I know often that the pathologically kind person feels like, 00:30:44.844 --> 00:30:48.924 well, I know what he's wanting and I can take care of this and then he will 00:30:48.924 --> 00:30:50.784 not take it out on the kids or me. 00:30:50.984 --> 00:30:54.144 And then all of a sudden, it's another view of now he wants to ride bikes. 00:30:54.244 --> 00:30:57.904 He's fine. Another person said about a year or two ago, I was considering going into real estate. 00:30:58.004 --> 00:31:00.904 He was initially encouraging, telling me that he thought I'd be great at it. 00:31:00.944 --> 00:31:05.044 Then a few months later, I was on a work call while working from home and he was within earshot. 00:31:05.144 --> 00:31:07.924 When I got off the phone, he said, are you sure you want to go into real estate? 00:31:08.144 --> 00:31:09.364 Because you're really good at what you do. 00:31:09.724 --> 00:31:13.004 I was really confused because it seemed like it should have been a compliment, 00:31:13.124 --> 00:31:16.484 but I feel like he was really just planting seeds of doubt. 00:31:17.084 --> 00:31:20.864 He had decision whiplash a lot and it often related to purchases. 00:31:20.864 --> 00:31:23.664 Purchases i think he bought and returned his apple 00:31:23.664 --> 00:31:26.384 watch about 10 times he also never had a car more 00:31:26.384 --> 00:31:29.044 than two years he would purchase what i believe to 00:31:29.044 --> 00:31:32.084 be impulsively and then decide he likes something better and then 00:31:32.084 --> 00:31:34.704 form some type of phony excuse as to why he needed to get a new 00:31:34.704 --> 00:31:38.784 car he would then often make the car purchases without discussing with me and 00:31:38.784 --> 00:31:42.324 he would just come home with a new vehicle often the new car purchases would 00:31:42.324 --> 00:31:46.764 come on the tail end of complaining about not having money then when the kids 00:31:46.764 --> 00:31:50.464 got old enough to catch on they would ask me why is he buying a new car if he 00:31:50.464 --> 00:31:53.224 didn't have any money. She said it's all just crazy making. 00:31:54.104 --> 00:31:58.104 Another person said that they would wake up before my ex and feed and let the dogs out. 00:31:58.264 --> 00:32:01.504 That morning routine was enough to drive a person out of their mind because 00:32:01.504 --> 00:32:03.024 he constantly moved the goalpost. 00:32:03.564 --> 00:32:06.884 She said, see, one of the dogs would sometimes bark to be let inside or when 00:32:06.884 --> 00:32:08.104 they were excited about food. 00:32:08.264 --> 00:32:12.984 So I did my best to keep that to just a real quick woof or two when it happened. 00:32:13.204 --> 00:32:17.264 But my ex would become enraged, claiming I was incompetent and careless. 00:32:17.624 --> 00:32:22.084 So then he would outline a new protocol for me to follow. This is an adult human being. 00:32:22.935 --> 00:32:26.135 She said, I would follow it even though I knew the dog would still bark and 00:32:26.135 --> 00:32:29.235 the dog would bark and he would become enraged, claiming that I was careless, 00:32:29.455 --> 00:32:32.615 et cetera, and on and on like that endlessly. 00:32:33.835 --> 00:32:37.935 Another person said he loves to quote ride bikes so often that I definitely 00:32:37.935 --> 00:32:39.275 experienced emotional whiplash. 00:32:39.455 --> 00:32:43.075 He frequently lectured me for being late, yet I was the only one who got up 00:32:43.075 --> 00:32:47.215 early to take kids and to get ready and then to get the kids ready and take 00:32:47.215 --> 00:32:48.875 care of other things, prep the household. old. 00:32:49.235 --> 00:32:53.995 He'd be in a bath until the last minute and then lose it and lecture me when I wasn't ready. 00:32:54.335 --> 00:32:57.975 He and the kids will wait in the car and then call me a slow poke when I finally 00:32:57.975 --> 00:33:01.215 make it out with all of their coats, their water bottles, their snacks, 00:33:01.335 --> 00:33:03.895 and necessary change of clothes for each child. 00:33:04.055 --> 00:33:07.515 If I say I don't like being called out, then he would say, well, 00:33:07.635 --> 00:33:10.075 I'm just too sensitive or we can't take a joke. 00:33:10.635 --> 00:33:14.475 After just having scolded and insulted me, he then wants to to hold my hand 00:33:14.475 --> 00:33:15.795 while we drive to our destination. 00:33:16.155 --> 00:33:19.915 And his tone of voice is if nothing happened. She said, this happens so often 00:33:19.915 --> 00:33:22.535 that I have chronic pain from all the whiplash. 00:33:22.675 --> 00:33:26.435 And another one, she said, I'm told all the time that the kids need to eat better. 00:33:26.715 --> 00:33:30.815 I agree, but I think I also deserve credit for making them well-rounded meals. 00:33:31.175 --> 00:33:34.195 When he's taking care of them, he can't bother to take the extra step of adding 00:33:34.195 --> 00:33:36.615 vegetables or more than one thing to their meal. 00:33:36.755 --> 00:33:40.775 His hypocrisy always felt like a slap in the face or whiplash. 00:33:41.355 --> 00:33:43.975 Another person said, I have a very large family. and we're really close. 00:33:44.395 --> 00:33:47.095 My siblings are my best friends and I'm very close with my parents. 00:33:47.195 --> 00:33:51.175 Both his parents have passed away and he has no friends or family, just me. 00:33:51.615 --> 00:33:54.595 One minute he will say he's so thankful that our kids have that family support 00:33:54.595 --> 00:33:59.135 and all that comes with it. And then the next, it will be used as a guilt tactic. 00:33:59.335 --> 00:34:03.255 And I'll hear things like, well, some of us don't have any support or any help at all. 00:34:03.355 --> 00:34:08.195 Or if I spend time with friends and family, then he will encourage me to do whatever I want. 00:34:08.335 --> 00:34:12.235 And then other days he will be ticked off at me and guilt me because he He never 00:34:12.235 --> 00:34:16.115 gets to do anything and he couldn't even if he had people because I'm always 00:34:16.115 --> 00:34:18.315 out and he has to watch the kids. 00:34:19.388 --> 00:34:22.728 She said, another one I thought of is how he will never eat the homemade meals 00:34:22.728 --> 00:34:25.168 that I make, and he will get fast food for himself. 00:34:25.808 --> 00:34:29.168 Then the next minute, he'll be upset that there's nothing to eat or made, 00:34:29.328 --> 00:34:31.708 and also expect the kids to eat whatever I make. 00:34:32.168 --> 00:34:36.768 Another huge one is for four years, he didn't work and relied on me financially completely. 00:34:37.388 --> 00:34:41.908 And now that we're separated, I am still paying most of the bills and taking care of things. 00:34:42.368 --> 00:34:46.748 Some days he tells me he appreciates all I do, and he can't make it without me and he needs me. 00:34:47.248 --> 00:34:50.408 Then when I question anything he's doing financially or I buy something, 00:34:50.628 --> 00:34:55.348 he yells at me and says that he has his crap together and doesn't need my help at all. 00:34:55.688 --> 00:34:59.188 Until he does again. Another person said, I never felt as crazy as during our 00:34:59.188 --> 00:35:03.548 last year living together. He had had an emotional affair and was in the discard phase. 00:35:03.888 --> 00:35:07.068 He would jump from being nice and loving to mean within minutes. 00:35:07.268 --> 00:35:11.468 I had no clue what I was dealing with and thought that he was his real self 00:35:11.468 --> 00:35:13.068 whenever he was nice and loving. 00:35:13.668 --> 00:35:17.528 But when he was mean, it was so bad that I couldn't hold on to any of the good. 00:35:18.308 --> 00:35:23.348 The craziness made me start writing down what he said when he was nice so I 00:35:23.348 --> 00:35:27.348 could remember when he was mean or when he would withhold love and stonewall. 00:35:27.908 --> 00:35:32.148 I tried so hard to hold on to the positives that I still have pages and pages 00:35:32.148 --> 00:35:35.608 of the notes on my phone with any nice things that he said. 00:35:35.728 --> 00:35:39.308 Thinking back now, I know that if I had known what I know now, 00:35:39.988 --> 00:35:43.608 I should have been taking notes when he was not being nice to make sure I remembered 00:35:43.608 --> 00:35:48.288 and got myself out. but the cognitive dissonance and the confusion is very real 00:35:48.288 --> 00:35:50.148 and I felt like I was truly going crazy. 00:35:51.527 --> 00:35:55.627 And that is so true because I think we've talked on some of the previous episodes 00:35:55.627 --> 00:36:00.007 about taking notes or scorekeeping, and it feels like the wrong thing to do 00:36:00.007 --> 00:36:01.167 except for when it's not. 00:36:01.387 --> 00:36:04.567 And too often, that pathologically kind person keeps going back to the, 00:36:04.667 --> 00:36:06.267 okay, but there are some good things. 00:36:06.387 --> 00:36:09.247 And when we have to convince ourselves that there are some good things in the 00:36:09.247 --> 00:36:12.887 relationship, then that's not a healthy relationship. Somebody said. 00:36:42.067 --> 00:36:45.067 Like this in my marriage. And I'm sitting here with my coffee. 00:36:45.187 --> 00:36:48.527 My mind cannot remember a single thing. 00:36:48.887 --> 00:36:52.347 She said, isn't it amazing how our memory recall gets damaged by all this? 00:36:52.687 --> 00:36:56.587 She said, thanks for talking about this subject, Tony. It is validating and I'm not crazy. 00:36:57.087 --> 00:37:01.507 And you're not. And I think that that is a pretty amazing concept where when 00:37:01.507 --> 00:37:02.967 people get out of emotionally unhealthy, 00:37:03.967 --> 00:37:08.787 narcissistic relationships, then they get out of that complex post-traumatic stress disorder, 00:37:08.787 --> 00:37:14.027 That CPTSD and the brain can start to heal and the central nervous system can 00:37:14.027 --> 00:37:17.747 start to calm and you can start to tap into parts of the brain that have just 00:37:17.747 --> 00:37:20.667 been continually in a fight or flight mode for a long time. 00:37:21.207 --> 00:37:24.347 So if you have examples of your own, please share them. 00:37:24.427 --> 00:37:27.547 I'm sure that we'll do a follow up episode of this, but I appreciate the support 00:37:27.547 --> 00:37:31.627 and I hope that you all have an amazing week and I will see you next time on Waking Up to Nurse.