WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.320 Music. 00:00:06.609 --> 00:00:10.289 Hey everybody, welcome to episode 96 of Waking Up to Narcissism. 00:00:10.389 --> 00:00:13.709 I'm your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and 00:00:13.709 --> 00:00:17.069 host of the Virtual Couch podcast and Waking Up to Narcissism, 00:00:17.149 --> 00:00:20.169 the premium edition question and answer and a couple others, 00:00:20.269 --> 00:00:22.469 Murder on the Couch, Mind Mirror Me, Love ADHD. 00:00:23.169 --> 00:00:26.309 So I would love for you to check out any or all of those podcasts and you can 00:00:26.309 --> 00:00:30.609 find out more information in the show notes. Also, if you can sign up for my 00:00:30.609 --> 00:00:33.769 newsletter, go to tonyoverbay .com and sign up for the newsletter. 00:00:34.229 --> 00:00:37.989 My updated Magnetic Marriage course is coming the first week of December, 00:00:38.389 --> 00:00:43.589 and I think that it does play a role with my Waking Up the Narcissism audience, 00:00:43.849 --> 00:00:49.289 even if simply for the fact that you may want to try to really understand what 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:50.429 a healthy relationship looks like, 00:00:50.509 --> 00:00:55.729 and what having a communication tool can do for you in the relationship, 00:00:55.729 --> 00:00:58.809 meaning and I'm not saying that if you're in a relationship 00:00:58.809 --> 00:01:01.769 with someone who is truly narcissistic extremely emotionally 00:01:01.769 --> 00:01:05.069 mature that then this is going to all of a sudden solve 00:01:05.069 --> 00:01:08.029 all your problems but I do feel like it can be helpful to 00:01:08.029 --> 00:01:12.109 at least have a framework to work from and then see oftentimes the emotionally 00:01:12.109 --> 00:01:17.009 immature narcissistic person still is not going to play in that sandbox that 00:01:17.009 --> 00:01:22.109 they are going to then take even a evidence -based framework or a that works 00:01:22.109 --> 00:01:26.989 in successful couples therapy and then weaponize that or use that against somebody. 00:01:27.289 --> 00:01:31.149 But I just think so many people that are listening don't really know what they 00:01:31.149 --> 00:01:34.389 don't know about what a healthy relationship would look like and so that that 00:01:34.389 --> 00:01:37.769 is what I am excited about with the Magnetic Marriage course. 00:01:37.929 --> 00:01:40.169 If you want to find out more about that, go sign up for the newsletter. 00:01:40.609 --> 00:01:44.589 So let's get to today's topic. This is something that I think I'd shared. 00:01:45.383 --> 00:01:48.803 I think I'd shared in a previous episode that at one point I was just for fun 00:01:48.803 --> 00:01:53.623 looking at some stats and seeing which were the most popular episodes of waking up the narcissism. 00:01:53.723 --> 00:01:57.443 I assumed it would be the death by a thousand cuts, maybe the intermittent reinforcement, 00:01:57.603 --> 00:02:01.263 the trauma bond, but it was actually one about the amygdala hijack. 00:02:01.363 --> 00:02:05.943 And that episode aired quite a while ago and I realized as I was looking over 00:02:05.943 --> 00:02:10.563 some emails that come in that a lot of questions are around the what is wrong 00:02:10.563 --> 00:02:14.203 with me and I react and maybe that makes me the narcissist. 00:02:14.203 --> 00:02:18.903 And I all of a sudden I feel like I can't control myself, which again, 00:02:19.023 --> 00:02:22.643 I think has the pathologically kind person going back to feeling like, 00:02:23.063 --> 00:02:24.003 okay, no, I am the problem. 00:02:24.243 --> 00:02:29.143 When we could just put it really quickly in a bucket of reactive abuse, 00:02:29.343 --> 00:02:30.983 that if somebody is all of a sudden, 00:02:31.543 --> 00:02:34.243 screaming and yelling at their partner and that isn't something that they go 00:02:34.243 --> 00:02:37.843 around doing on a daily basis, I would guess that that's more of a reactive 00:02:37.843 --> 00:02:43.643 situation because their buttons had been pushed Are they've been holding things in for so long? 00:02:43.903 --> 00:02:48.783 And I think it's also crucial to understand how our emotional responses work, 00:02:48.823 --> 00:02:53.843 especially in the context of relationships with emotionally immature or narcissistic individuals. 00:02:54.083 --> 00:02:58.743 So I think in general, have you ever found yourself reacting in a way that feels 00:02:58.743 --> 00:03:00.943 out of proportion to the situation? 00:03:01.623 --> 00:03:07.523 And maybe a small comment from your partner sparks this intense burst of anger or fear in you. 00:03:08.003 --> 00:03:12.503 Or perhaps you've noticed that in certain situations, your ability to think clearly just vanishes. 00:03:12.663 --> 00:03:16.863 And I think so often people feel like I was in control or I noticed that I was 00:03:16.863 --> 00:03:20.343 starting to get a little bit angry, a little frustrated, but then that ability 00:03:20.343 --> 00:03:21.703 to think clearly just goes. 00:03:22.023 --> 00:03:24.563 And then you're left wondering, okay, why did I react that way? 00:03:25.023 --> 00:03:28.943 Because I really feel like those are signs of an amygdala hijack. The amygdala, 00:03:29.343 --> 00:03:34.443 if per the gwiz file, it's a tiny almond -shaped structure and it's really deep 00:03:34.443 --> 00:03:38.183 in our brain, but it plays such a key role in the processing of our emotions 00:03:38.183 --> 00:03:41.963 because it's like this, it's like this protector, this security guard, 00:03:41.983 --> 00:03:43.423 always on the lookout for any threat. 00:03:43.803 --> 00:03:46.923 But sometimes you could view that it gets a little bit overzealous, 00:03:47.023 --> 00:03:50.423 especially when we're dealing with ongoing stress or trauma, 00:03:50.423 --> 00:03:53.263 like in relationships with narcissistic or emotionally immature partners. 00:03:53.463 --> 00:03:57.303 So when the amygdala perceives a threat, it will bypass our rational brain. 00:03:57.723 --> 00:04:00.143 We're going to talk about some of the science, the nerdy science about that 00:04:00.143 --> 00:04:01.923 today because I do think it's really interesting. 00:04:02.423 --> 00:04:05.923 And I think it was Schoolhouse Rocky that told us that knowledge is power. 00:04:06.423 --> 00:04:10.923 If you're a kid that is of the, I don't know, 80s, 90s, maybe the 2000s. 00:04:11.183 --> 00:04:15.403 But I think that just understanding what is happening can help you give yourself 00:04:15.403 --> 00:04:18.523 a little bit of grace, which ironically is one of the things that will help 00:04:18.523 --> 00:04:23.183 you get out of this what's wrong with me amygdala hijacked situation in the first place. 00:04:23.183 --> 00:04:27.783 So essentially the rational brain is completely bypassed and then signals are 00:04:27.783 --> 00:04:29.463 sent straight to the emotional brain. 00:04:29.963 --> 00:04:33.663 And then later that thinking part of your brain processes the information and 00:04:33.663 --> 00:04:38.263 then that's when you might realize maybe maybe my reaction was a lot for that situation. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:43.059 In the case of the interactions with the emotionally immature narcissist, 00:04:43.479 --> 00:04:47.479 sometimes your body is trying to convince you, no, it's not a lot, it's not too much. 00:04:47.979 --> 00:04:51.199 This is what's gonna happen if you continue to put yourself in these situations. 00:04:51.619 --> 00:04:54.819 And not even put yourself, I don't want that to sound like there's any blame 00:04:54.819 --> 00:04:57.939 put on here, because a lot of times people just find themselves in those situations. 00:04:58.499 --> 00:05:02.699 But what happens in the brain? The amygdala hijack occurs when any strong emotion, 00:05:02.919 --> 00:05:07.079 whether it's anxiety or fear or anger, or even it can be extreme excitement, 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:11.759 then impairs the prefrontal cortex, that part of the brain and the frontal lobe 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.139 that regulates rational thought. 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:18.059 And this is where the research from 2016 suggests that there is an inverse relationship 00:05:18.059 --> 00:05:20.559 between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex. 00:05:21.059 --> 00:05:26.719 For example, when the amygdala is activated, then the prefrontal cortex is less activated. 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:31.419 And when emotions are running high, then think of it like the blood and oxygen 00:05:31.419 --> 00:05:35.879 flow to the amygdala rather than to the prefrontal cortex, which I think is 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.939 this fascinating way that the brain works. 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:42.939 And then if it's if the blood flow in oxygen are going to the amygdala, 00:05:43.259 --> 00:05:46.159 that's because we need to be on high alert. 00:05:46.752 --> 00:05:49.712 And then that reduces our ability to think and solve problems. 00:05:50.352 --> 00:05:54.472 So, while this whole process is helpful in an actual life and death situation, 00:05:54.912 --> 00:05:56.492 the amygdala hijack can occur. 00:05:57.212 --> 00:06:01.052 And I cannot find the article, but there was an article where I have this in 00:06:01.052 --> 00:06:06.252 my notes that gave the example of it can also happen when your kid hits a baseball through a car window. 00:06:06.692 --> 00:06:10.452 And then having all of the blood run from the rational part of your brain won't 00:06:10.452 --> 00:06:14.892 help the situation and then can cause you to act in ways that you later regret. 00:06:15.032 --> 00:06:21.192 So here's that example of what happens in your brain when the ball goes through a car window. 00:06:21.532 --> 00:06:25.452 So there's a sensory stimulus. It can be what you hear, what you see, 00:06:25.592 --> 00:06:28.252 even what you smell if it's all of a sudden you smell fire. 00:06:28.572 --> 00:06:31.472 But in this case, it's the sound of a ball crashing through the window. 00:06:31.892 --> 00:06:35.952 And then that travels through your auditory nerve and then converts from a sound 00:06:35.952 --> 00:06:38.192 wave to an electrical impulse in the brain. 00:06:38.192 --> 00:06:43.032 And then this signal travels to the thalamus, the gray matter that helps relay 00:06:43.032 --> 00:06:45.172 sensory signals, and then to 00:06:45.172 --> 00:06:49.472 the amygdala before it reaches the brain's cortex, or the thinking brain. 00:06:49.552 --> 00:06:51.912 Like what a miracle the way that that occurs. 00:06:52.552 --> 00:06:55.772 Because what you're taking in, whether it's through what you hear, 00:06:55.972 --> 00:06:59.212 what you see, what you smell, what you touch, all of those things, 00:06:59.652 --> 00:07:02.792 that you're very quickly saying, is this safe? 00:07:03.352 --> 00:07:08.112 So this survival mechanism then allows us to react to danger before the rational 00:07:08.112 --> 00:07:09.632 brain has time to process it. 00:07:10.012 --> 00:07:13.112 So even before you fully processed how the ball got through the window, 00:07:13.612 --> 00:07:17.172 you can feel your body gearing up for a dangerous situation. 00:07:17.872 --> 00:07:20.532 So then whether it's this ball going through the car window, 00:07:20.732 --> 00:07:22.872 then other examples of the amygdala hijack. 00:07:23.152 --> 00:07:26.532 A car swerves in your lane and almost causes an accident. You go into road rage 00:07:26.532 --> 00:07:30.592 and throw your smoothie in their window. Or you get a phone call that your loved 00:07:30.592 --> 00:07:34.412 one is in an emergency room, but you're so distressed that you don't even hear the details. 00:07:35.052 --> 00:07:37.552 They give an example that I think would be wonderful. You win the lottery, 00:07:37.812 --> 00:07:40.692 and your excitement makes you scream and cause a scene in the convenience store. 00:07:41.594 --> 00:07:45.194 You know, I remember this one. This was so long ago, 1993. 00:07:45.914 --> 00:07:51.694 And I had already moved out to California, and I had graduated college, and I had one class to go. 00:07:51.834 --> 00:07:54.794 And this was so long ago that the class could be taken. 00:07:55.254 --> 00:07:58.234 There wasn't a thing, such a thing, I think, as online. I guess there was, 00:07:58.274 --> 00:08:02.534 because I was working for a computer software company. but I had a workbook 00:08:02.534 --> 00:08:09.154 and I was supposed to finish a class and then mail things in and I had not completed that at that time. 00:08:09.514 --> 00:08:13.574 And I remember getting a phone call from my college and they said, 00:08:14.034 --> 00:08:17.514 hey, we reviewed your transcripts and you actually, I had transferred from another 00:08:17.514 --> 00:08:21.714 college a couple of years earlier and they said, you have all the credits you need and then some. 00:08:21.974 --> 00:08:24.934 So congratulations, you've graduated with your bachelor's degree. 00:08:25.254 --> 00:08:28.394 And I remember being just giddy and excited. I really was, I couldn't believe it. 00:08:28.434 --> 00:08:31.974 All the hard work, it was done and I didn't have to complete this class using 00:08:31.974 --> 00:08:36.274 this book and mailing things in and I was just, thank you so much. 00:08:36.334 --> 00:08:37.454 I'm so excited. Thank you. 00:08:37.734 --> 00:08:41.954 Okay, take care. Goodbye. And I remember just being giddy and calling my wife 00:08:41.954 --> 00:08:48.794 and then going home and then I remember thinking, what if that wasn't even a scam, so to speak? 00:08:48.794 --> 00:08:51.294 I don't remember, I didn't write down who called me, I didn't write down anything 00:08:51.294 --> 00:08:55.854 because I was so just excited and there was so much excitement flooding through 00:08:55.854 --> 00:09:00.174 my whole body and my brain that then I was not thinking rationally. 00:09:00.574 --> 00:09:03.754 And then I remember spending the next probably four or five weeks just terrified 00:09:03.754 --> 00:09:08.614 that wasn't really a thing until I then did get my diploma in the mail. 00:09:09.574 --> 00:09:14.734 And so let's talk about what happens then when somebody is in an interaction 00:09:14.734 --> 00:09:19.074 with somebody who is emotionally immature or narcissistic. And I'm gonna go 00:09:19.074 --> 00:09:21.814 over quickly the five rules of interacting with a narcissist. 00:09:21.934 --> 00:09:23.774 Again, I've got my raise your emotional baseline. 00:09:23.954 --> 00:09:27.454 Self -care is not selfish, we gotta get you in a good place in order to interact 00:09:27.454 --> 00:09:30.054 with the emotionally immature or narcissistic person. 00:09:30.714 --> 00:09:33.934 And you've already then, that number two, you got your PhD in gaslighting. 00:09:34.054 --> 00:09:38.434 You're already ready, you know that you're not crazy and that there are things 00:09:38.434 --> 00:09:41.294 that it's okay for you to have your own thoughts and feelings and opinions and 00:09:41.294 --> 00:09:43.594 it's even okay for you to remember things the way that you remember them. 00:09:44.286 --> 00:09:47.326 Then you're showing up and you are getting out of unproductive conversations 00:09:47.326 --> 00:09:51.506 and then you're setting boundaries, but knowing that that emotionally immature 00:09:51.506 --> 00:09:55.826 narcissistic person, that to them, they view that boundary as a challenge. 00:09:56.066 --> 00:09:57.966 We're going to focus on that one here in just a second. 00:09:58.546 --> 00:10:02.886 And then number five, it's that you realize that you aren't going to ever give 00:10:02.886 --> 00:10:06.406 them the aha moment or the epiphany, that that needs to come from them. 00:10:06.486 --> 00:10:10.326 That needs to be a them thing, that's not a you thing. So if we go back to that number four, 00:10:10.446 --> 00:10:13.586 so we've after we've got our PhD in gas lighting number two and number three 00:10:13.586 --> 00:10:17.986 we We realized okay the more and this is where this really comes into play number 00:10:17.986 --> 00:10:21.826 three I need to get myself out of unproductive conversations because that is 00:10:21.826 --> 00:10:26.386 going to lead to the amygdala hijack And how do I get myself out of unproductive conversations? 00:10:26.606 --> 00:10:30.706 Then that number four I set I set boundaries hopefully set healthy boundaries 00:10:30.706 --> 00:10:34.926 So then I can realize that if I am starting to notice that I my heart rate is 00:10:34.926 --> 00:10:38.146 elevating I'm starting to shake, my hands are shaking a little bit, 00:10:38.466 --> 00:10:41.706 and I'm starting to almost experience a little bit of brain fog. 00:10:41.846 --> 00:10:44.666 Some people say that they start to feel like they're gonna disassociate, 00:10:44.926 --> 00:10:47.726 that they do realize there are some signals that are coming through, 00:10:48.146 --> 00:10:52.546 and at that point, then I need to then remove myself from the situation. 00:10:53.046 --> 00:10:56.186 And when I talk about setting a boundary, and then the narcissist or the emotionally 00:10:56.186 --> 00:11:00.226 immature will see that boundary as a challenge, this is where that comes into play. 00:11:00.326 --> 00:11:03.426 So if I say, hey, if you're going to tell me that I'm crazy, 00:11:03.486 --> 00:11:07.106 or try to tell me what my thoughts or my opinions are or how I feel, 00:11:07.486 --> 00:11:09.766 then I am gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave. 00:11:09.906 --> 00:11:13.306 I'm gonna take a break. I'm gonna go for a walk and we can come back and talk 00:11:13.306 --> 00:11:17.606 about this later when you maybe are willing to hear me and maybe be a little 00:11:17.606 --> 00:11:21.066 more curious or if you're interested in my opinion on how I feel. 00:11:21.546 --> 00:11:26.226 But at that point, then here is where the emotionally mature narcissist is not 00:11:26.226 --> 00:11:28.966 going to say, man, that's a great point and I appreciate you. 00:11:29.046 --> 00:11:31.466 That's the, that's the emotionally mature response. 00:11:31.806 --> 00:11:34.286 No, this is where you're going to hear, oh, okay, walk away. 00:11:34.586 --> 00:11:36.066 I guess we're never gonna solve anything. 00:11:36.506 --> 00:11:39.686 And what's so ironic, this is where that concept of even parenting can come 00:11:39.686 --> 00:11:43.406 into play, where you may even hear some of the things that you have said, 00:11:43.686 --> 00:11:45.806 because to the narcissist or the emotionally immature, 00:11:46.286 --> 00:11:50.006 then they often know, oh, those are things that are important to you, 00:11:50.306 --> 00:11:54.926 so then that must mean that if I say these things, and there's a little bit of... 00:11:56.180 --> 00:12:00.580 Controversy is a dramatic word, but there's debate on whether or not that's 00:12:00.580 --> 00:12:03.700 in the conscious or the subconscious, where that comes from in the emotionally 00:12:03.700 --> 00:12:05.000 immature, narcissistic person. 00:12:05.540 --> 00:12:07.920 But they will say the things that then, because that is a button, 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:10.960 if all of a sudden they say the exact thing that you typically say, 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.480 and then, because instead of me going, oh, okay, interesting, 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.960 that's a new button, they're saying the thing that really matters a lot to me, 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:22.820 versus the, wait a minute, you don't think that I'm being curious, 00:12:22.920 --> 00:12:25.700 I'm the one that's always curious, now you, and then it's, oh, 00:12:25.820 --> 00:12:28.220 okay, they just, they pushed the right button, and they got me. 00:12:28.580 --> 00:12:33.560 So that's where this can really become a opportunity to differentiate, 00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:37.180 to recognize that I am having some feelings that are coming up right now, 00:12:37.540 --> 00:12:41.960 and in a positive way, that's a me issue, so I need to take care of myself, 00:12:42.060 --> 00:12:43.900 and I need to get myself out of this situation. 00:12:44.540 --> 00:12:49.120 And so what happens is our emotions take over the driver's seat and then our 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.060 logic is left in the backseat wondering what just happened. 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:57.120 But it's a survival mechanism. But in our modern world, it can lead to actions 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.160 and reactions that we later regret. 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.700 And I am not saying this as a, and then we need to feel bad about it. 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:07.740 I really feel like, especially in the world of emotional immaturity and narcissism, 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:14.920 it's more of a, how dare that partner that you are interacting with continue to push buttons. 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.360 They're trying to find the button that will get you to the amygdala hijack so 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.260 that then they can say, see, look at that, you just lost your stuff again. 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.940 So, I think you need to do work. I mean, don't blame this on me, 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:27.260 you're the one that just lost your stuff. 00:13:28.091 --> 00:13:31.471 But then, so why does it happen more frequently or intensely in relationships 00:13:31.471 --> 00:13:33.331 with narcissists or emotionally immature people? 00:13:33.891 --> 00:13:36.551 To answer that, I think we need to do a little bit more of a deep dive into 00:13:36.551 --> 00:13:39.351 the world of emotional trauma and its impact on the brain. 00:13:39.691 --> 00:13:43.311 We're gonna explore how long -term exposure, and I think that's one of the keys 00:13:43.311 --> 00:13:48.431 to these kind of environments, starts to prime your amygdala to be more reactive. 00:13:48.891 --> 00:13:52.671 Because remembering that your brain is trying to become more efficient at everything, 00:13:53.011 --> 00:13:58.891 even if that is predicting danger. and so it makes you more susceptible to these amygdala hijacks. 00:13:59.171 --> 00:14:02.551 So if you've ever felt like your emotions are controlling you rather than the 00:14:02.551 --> 00:14:05.671 other way around or if you're struggling to stay present and rational in the 00:14:05.671 --> 00:14:10.611 face of emotional triggers then I think today's episode is gonna have a lot of value for you. 00:14:11.031 --> 00:14:14.331 We'll unpack a little bit of the science behind the amygdala hijack and I really 00:14:14.331 --> 00:14:18.691 want to help you understand its connection to our relationships and and most 00:14:18.691 --> 00:14:22.751 importantly we'll talk about some strategies to hopefully regain control and 00:14:22.751 --> 00:14:25.071 one of the key things is to learn how to respond. 00:14:25.651 --> 00:14:30.731 Rather than react and then really starting to trust our gut and listen to our 00:14:30.731 --> 00:14:34.471 body because there are a lot of people in these situations that think, 00:14:34.571 --> 00:14:39.491 okay, if I can really get myself under control that then I can show up in these 00:14:39.491 --> 00:14:43.691 emotionally immature narcissistic relationships and again, 00:14:43.831 --> 00:14:45.851 I think unfortunately that's where somebody can think, 00:14:46.011 --> 00:14:49.351 maybe then I can forget what Tony says about you'll never give that other person 00:14:49.351 --> 00:14:54.311 the aha moment or the epiphany Because if I can stay present and calm, then maybe I can, 00:14:54.811 --> 00:14:59.251 but in reality, what I see happen more often than not is that then the more 00:14:59.251 --> 00:15:04.851 that you learn to stay present and calm, that then becomes almost a challenge 00:15:04.851 --> 00:15:06.951 to the emotionally immature or narcissistic person. 00:15:07.371 --> 00:15:10.751 And so, they start saying more and more things, pushing bigger and bigger buttons. 00:15:10.751 --> 00:15:15.491 This goes back to that phenomenon where when you feel like you're having a moment 00:15:15.491 --> 00:15:18.951 with an emotionally immature person and you share something very vulnerable. 00:15:19.728 --> 00:15:24.808 That how often when then a fight breaks out and the buttons are being pushed 00:15:24.808 --> 00:15:28.408 that if you don't react, then that very thing that you expressed from a place 00:15:28.408 --> 00:15:31.348 of vulnerability can then be used against you. 00:15:31.448 --> 00:15:36.728 So let's talk about the origin story of even the concept or the term the amygdala hijack. 00:15:37.148 --> 00:15:41.388 That term was actually coined by a psychologist named Daniel Goleman in his 00:15:41.388 --> 00:15:43.428 1995 book Emotional Intelligence. 00:15:44.108 --> 00:15:47.608 And he was specifically referring to situations where the amygdala, 00:15:48.128 --> 00:15:52.168 again that part of the brain that's responsible for emotional response takes 00:15:52.168 --> 00:15:53.688 over your rational thinking. 00:15:53.948 --> 00:15:59.408 So in simple terms, when your emotions go into overdrive and you react impulsively, 00:15:59.908 --> 00:16:01.848 without necessarily thinking things through. 00:16:02.488 --> 00:16:08.348 And if I can just wrap today's entire episode up with a big old warm blanket 00:16:08.348 --> 00:16:12.488 of grace and bless your heart and you're trying your best. 00:16:12.888 --> 00:16:17.108 Because I think in the first episode that I did about the amygdala hijack, 00:16:17.108 --> 00:16:22.148 when the basis of the episode was around somebody that I was working with that 00:16:22.148 --> 00:16:25.688 said they were frustrated with me because we were processing things. 00:16:25.768 --> 00:16:30.648 And they said, I need to know what to do when I am in that amygdala hijacked 00:16:30.648 --> 00:16:35.628 state. And then I said, thinking I was hilarious, didn't go over so well at 00:16:35.628 --> 00:16:37.728 the time, but then we later had a good laugh. 00:16:38.088 --> 00:16:39.428 But I said at that point, that's where 00:16:39.428 --> 00:16:44.568 you need to go back and invest in technology to build a time machine. 00:16:44.748 --> 00:16:48.848 And then go back a couple of years from then and begin a solid meditation practice. 00:16:49.368 --> 00:16:55.508 And start going to therapy and start really focusing on how to lower your resting 00:16:55.508 --> 00:16:58.768 heart rate through meditation, through exercise, through yoga, 00:16:59.248 --> 00:17:04.308 through therapy. because that amygdala hijack is something that's happened and built up over time. 00:17:04.848 --> 00:17:09.308 And so in that moment, all you can do is get through it, give yourself grace, 00:17:09.308 --> 00:17:14.168 and then I like to say review or break down the game film of what were the things 00:17:14.168 --> 00:17:16.068 that led up to that amygdala hijack. 00:17:16.088 --> 00:17:18.968 Because a lot of times it's similar things that I see in the world of addiction. 00:17:19.408 --> 00:17:22.648 There's a acronym HALT. Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. 00:17:23.248 --> 00:17:26.208 And some of those concepts come to play as well. That 00:17:26.208 --> 00:17:29.748 when that amygdala is in overdrive that 00:17:29.748 --> 00:17:32.468 it can it's driven by cortisol I guess I'm jumping ahead of 00:17:32.468 --> 00:17:35.688 myself here but that can be also a 00:17:35.688 --> 00:17:39.188 symptom of a lack of sleep and when 00:17:39.188 --> 00:17:44.448 you just start to be physically drained and you aren't getting that good deep 00:17:44.448 --> 00:17:49.128 REM sleep that you need to reset all the brain chemicals then you start the 00:17:49.128 --> 00:17:52.608 day and your your amygdala is a little bit more fired up than it was the day 00:17:52.608 --> 00:17:55.788 before and the day before that and the day before that and then if you You aren't. 00:17:56.485 --> 00:18:00.925 Taking time for self -care. This is why one of the first things I like to recommend 00:18:00.925 --> 00:18:04.905 is raising your emotional baseline Self -care is not selfish self -care can 00:18:04.905 --> 00:18:07.265 be anything from just taking a moment to breathe. 00:18:07.405 --> 00:18:11.145 It can be dreaming It can be reading it can be going on a walk petting a dog 00:18:11.145 --> 00:18:15.825 It's really anything and you can start with even the smallest bit of self -care 00:18:15.825 --> 00:18:23.485 is a place to start but it really is anything that you can do for yourself will start to lower that that, 00:18:24.225 --> 00:18:25.665 baseline cortisol level. 00:18:26.185 --> 00:18:28.065 But the most, I don't want to say the most important things, 00:18:28.165 --> 00:18:34.345 but really if you can take that time to go find somebody you can talk to and 00:18:34.345 --> 00:18:38.565 really spend time with yoga, with meditation, deep breathing, 00:18:38.925 --> 00:18:43.585 that goal is to slowly but surely lower your fight -or -flight response so that 00:18:43.585 --> 00:18:48.445 you don't immediately go all the way to this this reactive mode. 00:18:48.965 --> 00:18:53.025 So just thinking in in terms of the amygdala then is your brain's alarm system. 00:18:53.105 --> 00:18:56.465 So when it senses danger, then your amygdala is what can trigger that fight, 00:18:56.605 --> 00:18:57.945 flight, or freeze response. 00:18:58.525 --> 00:19:01.425 And again, it's wonderful when you are in actual physical danger, 00:19:01.665 --> 00:19:03.485 but not so much in everyday social interactions. 00:19:04.005 --> 00:19:08.965 And it happens when this part of the brain reacts to a perceived emotional threat 00:19:08.965 --> 00:19:10.945 as if it were a life or death situation. 00:19:11.745 --> 00:19:15.005 And why it's, I mean, it can be so common in relationships with emotionally 00:19:15.005 --> 00:19:16.345 immature and narcissistic people. 00:19:16.865 --> 00:19:20.945 And I think the reason is because the partners, the emotionally immature or 00:19:20.945 --> 00:19:25.825 narcissistic partners are so unpredictable and manipulative and emotionally volatile and, 00:19:26.325 --> 00:19:29.285 Their actions then easily trigger the amygdala's alarm system 00:19:29.285 --> 00:19:32.665 and that then leads to this heightened emotional response If you 00:19:32.665 --> 00:19:37.265 then are finding yourself continually on edge walking on eggshells is what we 00:19:37.265 --> 00:19:40.945 often refer to because you're not quite sure what version of somebody you're 00:19:40.945 --> 00:19:45.345 gonna get and then if you're also playing that role of peacekeeper in the family 00:19:45.345 --> 00:19:49.725 and you're trying to buffer between the emotionally immature and the kids, 00:19:49.885 --> 00:19:54.025 then that that takes a lot of being hyper aware, hyper alert. 00:19:54.565 --> 00:20:01.385 And that does cause that your amygdala to be on on overdrive just continually 00:20:01.385 --> 00:20:06.425 trying to assess and read the room and the situation and read moods and that's that's just a lot. 00:20:06.525 --> 00:20:09.705 So if that's something that you've been doing for a long time and maybe even 00:20:09.705 --> 00:20:13.845 since in your childhood if we're being honest if that's been your role in the 00:20:13.845 --> 00:20:17.325 family and then that is what leads to that pathological kindness because, 00:20:17.965 --> 00:20:22.325 hey, my role here is I really don't want anybody to get upset or angry because 00:20:22.325 --> 00:20:26.185 that can have big repercussions on the entire family system, 00:20:26.725 --> 00:20:33.065 then this is that concept where over time those neurons that fire together wire 00:20:33.065 --> 00:20:34.925 together and then your base of 00:20:34.925 --> 00:20:40.445 cortisol is always pretty high and you're right there on the edge of just. 00:20:41.125 --> 00:20:43.665 Going into that amygdala hijack and losing your stuff. 00:20:44.224 --> 00:20:47.504 I think it's also key that emotionally immature narcissistic partners, 00:20:48.104 --> 00:20:51.484 I think it's safe to say they lack emotional intelligence, which then can make 00:20:51.484 --> 00:20:56.164 that situation worse because they may not recognize or validate the emotional 00:20:56.164 --> 00:20:57.404 experiences of their partners, 00:20:57.404 --> 00:21:03.304 which then continually puts the partner on edge because they already know that, 00:21:03.384 --> 00:21:06.184 okay, it's probably not worth it for me to say this thing. 00:21:06.184 --> 00:21:10.184 So I've sat on the things I want to say for so long, but then eventually, 00:21:10.524 --> 00:21:13.844 because whether it's that hungry, angry, lonely, tired, sleep deprived, 00:21:13.864 --> 00:21:17.684 or you see the emotionally immature person really say something cruel or mean 00:21:17.684 --> 00:21:20.544 to a kid, one of your kids or yourself, 00:21:20.684 --> 00:21:24.784 and then that's when at some point, there it goes, there's the amygdala hijack, 00:21:24.784 --> 00:21:28.584 and now you find yourself almost with this out -of -body experience and you 00:21:28.584 --> 00:21:30.164 are yelling at this person. 00:21:30.564 --> 00:21:34.904 Some of the coping strategies is part of what you're doing right now, self -awareness. 00:21:35.464 --> 00:21:40.064 You can recognize the signs that an amygdala hijack is about to happen and that's 00:21:40.064 --> 00:21:43.444 one of the most powerful things you can do is to notice that, 00:21:43.604 --> 00:21:46.164 okay, I'm starting to get a little bit shaky, I'm starting to get frustrated 00:21:46.164 --> 00:21:50.584 or flustered and at that point, it is important to pause. 00:21:50.844 --> 00:21:54.424 Again, the taking deep breaths in through the nose, out through the mouth is 00:21:54.424 --> 00:21:59.624 a really powerful thing, but one of the best things that you can do is to remove 00:21:59.624 --> 00:22:00.744 yourself from that situation. 00:22:01.344 --> 00:22:04.664 Now the unfortunate part is that doesn't mean that the immature person is going 00:22:04.664 --> 00:22:07.764 to understand that maybe they've gone too far. 00:22:08.044 --> 00:22:13.544 You may actually then hear more buttons being pushed as you walk out of the room. 00:22:13.924 --> 00:22:17.024 That, okay fine, walk, leave, you don't want to deal with it, 00:22:17.064 --> 00:22:18.464 I'm the only person here that cares. 00:22:18.824 --> 00:22:22.704 And those are all just new buttons or old buttons that are being pressed and 00:22:22.704 --> 00:22:24.564 I think that's really important to understand that. 00:22:25.301 --> 00:22:30.861 And then I think in my quest to show that artificial intelligence can continue to be friend. 00:22:31.601 --> 00:22:38.721 I did turn to my good friend, ChatGPT, and I had ChatGPT summarize and then 00:22:38.721 --> 00:22:46.081 re -write an article that I think is really significant about what happens in 00:22:46.081 --> 00:22:48.081 this amygdala hijack state. 00:22:48.541 --> 00:22:53.341 But just Just for fun, let me tell you what the abstract was of the paper. 00:22:54.161 --> 00:22:58.421 This research study investigated the relationship between microstructural variability 00:22:58.421 --> 00:23:03.921 in the amygdala -prefrontal pathways and trait anxiety, with a specific focus 00:23:03.921 --> 00:23:07.681 on whether this relationship may be moderated by sex, meaning male -female. 00:23:08.241 --> 00:23:11.741 Previous neuroimaging studies have suggested that individuals with high levels 00:23:11.741 --> 00:23:16.381 of trait anxiety may have reduced communication efficiency between the amygdala 00:23:16.381 --> 00:23:18.621 and the ventral prefrontal cortex. 00:23:19.321 --> 00:23:24.181 So, basically we're looking at that link between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex. 00:23:24.381 --> 00:23:26.981 The amygdala, the fight -or -flight response, and the prefrontal cortex, 00:23:27.061 --> 00:23:29.481 the place where you try to make sense of things. 00:23:29.961 --> 00:23:34.461 And so, I want to read, I love it. ChatGVT said, whoa, that's a lot of science, 00:23:34.541 --> 00:23:36.121 but don't worry, I'll break it down for you. 00:23:36.641 --> 00:23:40.801 So, the study, in simple terms, how the researchers wanted to know how the brain's 00:23:40.801 --> 00:23:42.921 structure is linked to anxiety. 00:23:43.281 --> 00:23:47.141 So, they focused on two parts of the brain. The amygdala, which is like your 00:23:47.141 --> 00:23:51.481 emotional control center and then the prefrontal cortex, let's call it the PFC, 00:23:51.761 --> 00:23:54.441 which helps you make decisions and think rationally. 00:23:54.981 --> 00:23:59.121 So again, the amygdala, the emotional control center, and then the PFC helps 00:23:59.121 --> 00:24:00.881 you make rational decisions. 00:24:01.361 --> 00:24:05.361 So they used, again I'm gonna read this, I said if you could put it in high 00:24:05.361 --> 00:24:08.461 school lingo, I think is the way I put it for chat GPT. 00:24:08.941 --> 00:24:14.081 So then chat GPT says they use some high -tech brain scans on 245 people to 00:24:14.081 --> 00:24:18.161 look at the pathways or connections between these two brain parts, 00:24:18.641 --> 00:24:23.041 and they found that people with stronger connections had lower levels of anxiety. 00:24:23.781 --> 00:24:26.941 And then interestingly, this link was even stronger in females. 00:24:27.723 --> 00:24:31.703 So, that's pretty significant. So, the people that had a stronger connection 00:24:31.703 --> 00:24:37.003 between their amygdala, the emotional control center, and the prefrontal cortex, 00:24:37.223 --> 00:24:41.323 which helps you make decisions and think rationally, then they had lower levels of anxiety. 00:24:41.783 --> 00:24:45.183 So, if you are one who suffers with anxiety, struggles with anxiety, 00:24:45.683 --> 00:24:51.523 this is some data that maybe supports that being able to tap into that being 00:24:51.523 --> 00:24:55.083 more present or logical or being able to see things as they are, 00:24:55.083 --> 00:24:58.863 then you have a stronger link to that amygdala, 00:24:59.043 --> 00:25:02.023 so maybe that's the way to tell the amygdala, I think we're okay. 00:25:02.583 --> 00:25:06.843 And then it was even stronger in females, meaning that females had an even stronger 00:25:06.843 --> 00:25:12.923 ability in these situations to have a deeper, stronger connection between their 00:25:12.923 --> 00:25:14.983 prefrontal cortex and their amygdala. 00:25:15.543 --> 00:25:19.583 So then I wonder, that means that I do not have data to back this up, 00:25:20.003 --> 00:25:24.623 that then it has the potential to be a much stronger connection between the 00:25:24.623 --> 00:25:29.523 prefrontal cortex and the amygdala that then when that connection is broken or is not there, 00:25:29.643 --> 00:25:34.323 I wonder if that causes an even greater reaction in the amygdala because that 00:25:34.323 --> 00:25:35.783 connection is then broken. 00:25:36.703 --> 00:25:40.463 So why it matters? The study is super important because it helps us understand 00:25:40.463 --> 00:25:42.503 how our brain structure can affect our emotions. 00:25:42.623 --> 00:25:46.523 It could also help scientists come up with better treatments for anxiety disorders in the future. 00:25:47.103 --> 00:25:50.243 According to ChatGPT, actually I want to read this next part, 00:25:50.483 --> 00:25:53.343 they used a bunch of fancy statistical methods and even looked how the brain 00:25:53.343 --> 00:25:56.763 changes from childhood to adulthood, and they also mention that their study 00:25:56.763 --> 00:26:01.003 doesn't prove that the brain structure causes anxiety, but it just shows that there's a connection. 00:26:01.860 --> 00:26:04.660 So, in a nutshell, if you're feeling anxious, it might have something to do 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:07.300 with how your amygdala and your prefrontal cortex are connected. 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:11.680 And then, again, thank you, ChatGPT, says, and if you're a girl, 00:26:11.820 --> 00:26:16.340 that connection might be even more important for you. Hope that that clears things up. 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.960 Let's talk about that role of cortisol, because we talk about cortisol so much. 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.020 Let's just give an example of what's happening in the brain. 00:26:24.120 --> 00:26:27.880 So, imagine you're walking down a hall and you see a huge spider on the wall, 00:26:27.980 --> 00:26:31.020 which is just, Man, I have a problem with spiders. I really do. 00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:35.220 So then your brain's alarm system, the amygdala, goes off like a fire alarm. 00:26:35.800 --> 00:26:38.700 And so your brain is yelling, danger, danger. I have to be honest, 00:26:38.780 --> 00:26:41.820 every morning that I come into my office and I get in pretty early because that's 00:26:41.820 --> 00:26:44.340 when I like to create content before clients come in, 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:49.620 but I open the door and I turn the light on and I've been doing this a long 00:26:49.620 --> 00:26:52.300 time and every now and again I'll see something, a bug, a spider, 00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:53.080 something on the ground. 00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:56.900 It's only been a few times, but man, I now have this relational frame built 00:26:56.900 --> 00:26:57.940 think it's fascinating the way 00:26:57.940 --> 00:27:01.240 the brain works that even though it's only been a few times, I'm ready. 00:27:01.460 --> 00:27:04.360 I turn that light on and it's a quick scan and I'm ready. 00:27:04.620 --> 00:27:08.980 And then if I, it's almost like my heart rate is elevated in anticipation for 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:13.560 going into fight or flight against some bug, which when you put it that way, 00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:16.320 maybe I'm a little bit overthinking that one. 00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:22.600 But again, that amygdala goes off like a fire alarm and it's your brain's way of yelling danger. 00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:25.480 So enter cortisol, the stress hormone. 00:27:26.100 --> 00:27:30.260 So then at that point your brain then sends a signal to release cortisol, 00:27:30.540 --> 00:27:31.820 often called the stress hormone. 00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:35.960 So then you can think of cortisol almost like the firefighter that then shows 00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:37.020 up when the alarm goes off. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.120 So then it prepares your body to either fight the spider, maybe with a shoe, 00:27:41.260 --> 00:27:44.660 or run away as fast as you can, which would be the flight. 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.400 And then your heart rate goes up because then what cortisol does is it cortisol 00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:51.420 helps speed up your heart rate. Why? 00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:57.420 Because your body needs to pump more blood into your muscles so then you can either fight or flee. 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.780 So it's in essence revving up a car engine before a race. 00:28:01.617 --> 00:28:05.997 So, back to your amygdala. Now, your amygdala is still in charge of the whole operation. 00:28:06.497 --> 00:28:09.817 We talked about the control center that is keeping an eye on everything. 00:28:10.157 --> 00:28:13.997 It's checking if the danger is still there and then it's deciding if it needs 00:28:13.997 --> 00:28:21.117 to keep the cortisol and heart rate high or if it can relax if the bug's already dead or it wasn't a bug. 00:28:21.417 --> 00:28:25.677 Literally last night I opened a box from Amazon and then I glanced over to my 00:28:25.677 --> 00:28:27.877 right again and see on the ground something. 00:28:28.377 --> 00:28:34.237 And I felt that surge of cortisol flow through my bloodstream and I look and 00:28:34.237 --> 00:28:37.697 it was just a piece of tape off the box. It was rolled up and it looked kind of weird. 00:28:38.797 --> 00:28:42.217 So, that amygdala again, it's in charge of that whole operation. 00:28:42.757 --> 00:28:47.177 Here's the kicker. The amygdala and cortisol are in a feedback loop. 00:28:47.457 --> 00:28:51.877 So, if the amygdala senses more danger, it's going to keep the cortisol levels 00:28:51.877 --> 00:28:53.537 high, which then keeps your heart rate up. 00:28:53.977 --> 00:28:58.057 But then once the danger's gone, again, maybe you squash the spider or you ran 00:28:58.057 --> 00:29:02.277 away, hypothetically, cortisol levels then drop and then your heart rate slows 00:29:02.277 --> 00:29:04.757 down and your amygdala can finally take a break. 00:29:05.357 --> 00:29:08.977 So, if you're in danger, your amygdala then sets off the alarm, 00:29:09.257 --> 00:29:12.917 and again, spider or human being, cortisol comes to the rescue, 00:29:13.117 --> 00:29:14.957 your heart rate speeds up, and you get ready for action. 00:29:15.557 --> 00:29:19.757 And when you put it that way, thank you body, it's a well -oiled machine and 00:29:19.757 --> 00:29:21.977 it is designed to keep you safe. 00:29:22.657 --> 00:29:26.977 But then the challenge is when you are in a relationship with somebody that 00:29:26.977 --> 00:29:28.937 your body is trying to keep you safe from. 00:29:29.657 --> 00:29:32.777 And I think that alone, we need to sit with that for a minute. 00:29:33.097 --> 00:29:36.977 Because if you don't feel safe in your relationship, then that's something that 00:29:36.977 --> 00:29:38.657 I think really needs to be addressed. 00:29:39.497 --> 00:29:44.137 And when we look at the way your body is trying to protect you then, 00:29:44.757 --> 00:29:49.177 I want to spend a second or two on your visceral or gut reaction. 00:29:49.995 --> 00:29:54.735 So let me quote the book Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy for Dummies. 00:29:55.015 --> 00:29:58.575 I have to tell you, there was a big Dummies Books for Dummies movement a while ago. 00:29:58.655 --> 00:30:02.055 I don't know if it's still as big of a thing, but the Emotionally Focused Couples 00:30:02.055 --> 00:30:03.955 Therapy for Dummies book is a really good book. 00:30:04.075 --> 00:30:07.495 I don't really even know who the authors are, but in chapter four, 00:30:07.835 --> 00:30:12.555 and I've referred to this on many a podcast, chapter four, identifying the three 00:30:12.555 --> 00:30:16.655 levels of emotional experience, quoting the book, when people talk about emotion, 00:30:16.795 --> 00:30:17.935 they usually oversimplify. 00:30:17.935 --> 00:30:21.235 They jam all emotion into one tight box and they keep the lid on. 00:30:21.595 --> 00:30:26.015 It's common to hear emotions get in the way of making rational decisions or 00:30:26.015 --> 00:30:30.315 you're reacting to emotionally or even worse take your emotions out of it. 00:30:30.415 --> 00:30:33.915 For many years psychology has emphasized thinking over feeling. 00:30:34.395 --> 00:30:38.415 It's still largely the case today but the field of effective neuroscience is 00:30:38.415 --> 00:30:41.995 pointing to a different reality, one in which emotional processing in your brain 00:30:41.995 --> 00:30:48.655 is central and rapid and actually sets the stage for the slower process of thinking. I love that. 00:30:49.035 --> 00:30:51.695 So your emotions are actually, they're leading the charge. 00:30:52.135 --> 00:30:55.695 And then in comes your almost like the dun -dun -dun process of thinking. 00:30:55.935 --> 00:30:58.675 So they say that you actually feel before you think. 00:30:59.395 --> 00:31:03.075 Modern neuroscience has charted the brain's response to situations and found 00:31:03.075 --> 00:31:08.215 that emotions fire two and a half times more rapidly in the brain than thoughts do. 00:31:08.715 --> 00:31:11.215 We aren't saying that emotions are more important than thoughts. 00:31:11.355 --> 00:31:15.415 In fact, feeling and thinking should team up and work together to make you that 00:31:15.415 --> 00:31:20.275 much more aware and prepared to make the best decisions and to act in the most helpful of ways. 00:31:20.635 --> 00:31:23.435 But most people overthink and underfeel. 00:31:24.375 --> 00:31:28.195 So then emotions occur with three layers, primary, secondary, and instrumental. 00:31:28.735 --> 00:31:32.415 And then I think I've done an episode or two here on the virtual couch on the 00:31:32.415 --> 00:31:35.995 discovering the importance of your primary emotions and your secondary emotions. 00:31:36.195 --> 00:31:40.555 Primary are these initial gut -felt emotional signals and they are stemming 00:31:40.555 --> 00:31:41.815 from your immediate surroundings. 00:31:42.055 --> 00:31:46.635 So you might feel primary emotions like a tingling or sinking experience in the pit of your stomach. 00:31:46.855 --> 00:31:49.975 Here comes that visceral or gut reaction or a tightening in the shoulders or 00:31:49.975 --> 00:31:51.555 heaviness or constriction in your chest. 00:31:52.055 --> 00:31:56.975 And even though you might not be aware of it, you feel primary emotions somewhere in the body. 00:31:57.795 --> 00:32:02.995 And primary emotions are often vulnerable, or some call them soft emotions, 00:32:03.095 --> 00:32:06.215 and they reveal your underbelly, so to speak. 00:32:06.595 --> 00:32:09.315 And here's a list of common primary emotions. Sadness, fear, 00:32:09.495 --> 00:32:13.315 hurt, anger, shame, joy, excitement, surprise. 00:32:13.895 --> 00:32:17.375 You can see that there are both negative and positive primary emotions, 00:32:17.795 --> 00:32:20.835 and both are considered primary emotions because they're the first emotions 00:32:20.835 --> 00:32:22.455 you feel in response to a situation. 00:32:23.075 --> 00:32:26.095 Negative emotion will make you withdraw, maybe shrink, play small, 00:32:26.395 --> 00:32:28.175 such as if you're hurt or sad or afraid. 00:32:28.735 --> 00:32:33.235 Positive primary emotions, they allow you to lean in, expand outward when you 00:32:33.235 --> 00:32:35.155 experience joy and surprise. 00:32:35.495 --> 00:32:40.055 When a couple's relationship is in distress, the negative primary emotion is usually unspoken. 00:32:40.575 --> 00:32:43.555 It may even go largely unnoticed. So it's important that when you start to notice 00:32:43.555 --> 00:32:47.175 your primary emotion, for example, when you suddenly realize that you forgot 00:32:47.175 --> 00:32:50.275 to do something that's very important, you may get kind of a sick feeling in 00:32:50.275 --> 00:32:53.955 your stomach and that sick feeling is your body's experience of a primary emotion. 00:32:54.749 --> 00:32:57.809 And so then while we're right here, when we talk about secondary emotion, 00:32:58.009 --> 00:32:59.949 what you feel after your gut reacts. 00:33:00.609 --> 00:33:03.669 When most people talk about emotion, they're usually, it's actually talking 00:33:03.669 --> 00:33:05.929 about the secondary emotions, which follow the primary emotions. 00:33:06.349 --> 00:33:09.669 Because they're the ones that you're most aware of. They're the second layer 00:33:09.669 --> 00:33:11.049 of your emotional experience. 00:33:11.269 --> 00:33:15.049 So primary emotions, they fire immediately. And that is that amygdala. 00:33:15.629 --> 00:33:19.229 And they can give you guidance, because they're there to protect you. 00:33:19.629 --> 00:33:23.029 And secondary emotions are in essence a reaction to your primary emotions. 00:33:23.029 --> 00:33:26.509 And so, typical secondary emotions include anger, frustration, 00:33:26.909 --> 00:33:30.589 guilt, defensiveness, and that's where then I go with humor. 00:33:30.829 --> 00:33:33.709 Often my secondary emotion is humor. When I feel uncomfortable, 00:33:33.869 --> 00:33:36.669 when I feel stressed, then I make a joke about things. 00:33:37.109 --> 00:33:40.349 And I even, again, I love this, I have my own theories where then because of 00:33:40.349 --> 00:33:42.289 implicit memory or what it feels like to be me, 00:33:42.809 --> 00:33:45.829 which is based off of the slow residue of lived experience, sometimes I almost 00:33:45.829 --> 00:33:50.969 feel like my emotions have swapped and my primary emotion has now become humor. 00:33:51.169 --> 00:33:52.369 That's my immediate reaction. 00:33:52.989 --> 00:33:56.409 And then if I have time to sit in, I sometimes feel like my secondary emotion 00:33:56.409 --> 00:34:00.389 then becomes almost the visceral or gut reaction, but I digress. 00:34:00.909 --> 00:34:04.129 So I think that those emotions are so important to recognize. 00:34:04.609 --> 00:34:09.389 And again, primarily that your emotions travel faster than your logic. 00:34:09.749 --> 00:34:13.649 Because now let's get back to the viscera because it sounds like a cool sci 00:34:13.649 --> 00:34:18.689 -fi term, but it is just a very fancy word for your internal organs, those in your gut area. 00:34:19.089 --> 00:34:21.949 So, when you have that gut feeling, that is your viscera talking. 00:34:22.349 --> 00:34:26.069 So, if you've heard about your visceral reaction, it's really your gut reaction. Trust your gut. 00:34:26.469 --> 00:34:28.809 Trust your gut sounds better than trust your viscera. 00:34:29.289 --> 00:34:32.909 When you have a visceral reaction, it is like your body is sounding an alarm 00:34:32.909 --> 00:34:36.089 before your brain has time to figure out what's going on. 00:34:36.569 --> 00:34:39.269 So, your emotions, again, we've identified they're already in the driver's seat 00:34:39.269 --> 00:34:43.189 and then logic is just starting to put a seatbelt on and saying, where are we going? 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:49.580 Cortisol, let's get back to that. Cortisol, it's this body's alarm system and 00:34:49.580 --> 00:34:53.020 it's a hormone that gets released when you're stressed or in danger and that 00:34:53.020 --> 00:34:57.120 makes your heart rate go up and puts your amygdala, the emotional center of 00:34:57.120 --> 00:34:58.480 your brain, on high alert. 00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:02.500 But too much cortisol then, hopefully you can see now, leads to that amygdala 00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:07.220 hijack where then emotions completely take over and logic is left in the dust. 00:35:07.220 --> 00:35:12.520 How do you lower cortisol other than the time machine? 00:35:13.420 --> 00:35:16.340 I think what's really significant, I'll just read this, there are several ways 00:35:16.340 --> 00:35:18.980 like exercise, good sleep, and mindfulness techniques. 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.600 And then some sources will suggest things like supplements, dietary changes, 00:35:23.140 --> 00:35:26.120 your mileage may vary, so that's something to consult your doctor, 00:35:26.260 --> 00:35:27.420 physician, that sort of thing. 00:35:28.080 --> 00:35:31.780 But the reason I put it that dramatically and then it turns out to not be that 00:35:31.780 --> 00:35:35.700 dramatic is that things like exercise, good sleep, and mindfulness techniques, 00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.900 even things like supplements or dietary changes are all things that happen outside 00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:42.360 of the relationship or the amygdala hijack. 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:48.480 So, if there's something that I really want you to give yourself grace for is 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:53.020 that if you are in a situation where you are the person that is now yelling 00:35:53.020 --> 00:35:58.780 or screaming or you feel like you've lost your mind when that came out of nowhere, give yourself grace. 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:02.000 And then when you can calm down, then break down the game film. 00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:09.200 Listen to this podcast. Start to write down some of the things that led up to the amygdala hijack. 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.040 When I talk about breakdown the game film, one of the things I think is really 00:36:12.040 --> 00:36:15.220 fascinating just as a therapist where I had it probably happened two or three 00:36:15.220 --> 00:36:18.800 times in yesterday's sessions where people come in and they say I'm not sure 00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:22.720 why I feel the way I do it doesn't make any sense and then I feel like okay 00:36:22.720 --> 00:36:26.840 that old chestnut the old I have no idea what's going on here and then you say 00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.360 hey take me back through your last 24, 48, 00:36:29.700 --> 00:36:33.760 72 hours and then when the person does they start to realize, 00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:35.080 oh, there is a lot going on. 00:36:35.220 --> 00:36:38.100 Or they're under more stress than they thought they were, or they've slept less, 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:42.360 or they may have some big decisions to make, or somebody in the family's sick, or, or, or. 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.640 And those are the things that then lead to, oh, okay, I guess I can understand 00:36:45.640 --> 00:36:47.100 why I'm feeling the way I do. 00:36:47.755 --> 00:36:51.255 Now, I talked so much about The Body Keeps the Score, the wonderful book by 00:36:51.255 --> 00:36:55.075 Bessel van der Kolk, and I do want to spend a second there because I really 00:36:55.075 --> 00:36:58.435 feel like it's this game changer when it comes to understanding trauma and then 00:36:58.435 --> 00:37:00.975 the long -term effects on the brain, especially the amygdala. 00:37:01.495 --> 00:37:06.095 Because in the book, van der Kolk talks about how trauma then can rewire the 00:37:06.095 --> 00:37:09.435 brain, making the amygdala more sensitive to stress and danger. 00:37:10.135 --> 00:37:14.395 And again, rewire the brain. So then, this is where that concept of the neurons 00:37:14.395 --> 00:37:16.475 that fire together, wire together come into play. 00:37:16.475 --> 00:37:21.555 So, if you turn up the volume on the alarm system so that even small things 00:37:21.555 --> 00:37:25.835 can set it off and you continue to keep that volume up over time, 00:37:26.255 --> 00:37:30.495 that heightened sensitivity where your emotional response goes into overdrive, 00:37:30.635 --> 00:37:33.155 even at times when there isn't a real threat or danger. 00:37:33.975 --> 00:37:38.255 Then that means that your amygdala is basically on high alert at all times. 00:37:38.995 --> 00:37:43.595 I was thinking about this, it's like having a guard dog that just always growls 00:37:43.595 --> 00:37:47.095 even when nobody's at the door or you shake them a little bit, 00:37:47.175 --> 00:37:49.955 they're sleeping and then they immediately growl. 00:37:50.075 --> 00:37:53.335 It's this, they're constantly on guard and that breaks my heart for the little 00:37:53.335 --> 00:37:54.895 guy, a little dog that does that. 00:37:55.235 --> 00:37:59.875 But if it's you, that can lead to chronic stress, anxiety and even physical 00:37:59.875 --> 00:38:04.255 health issues because your body is constantly in fight, flight or freeze mode. 00:38:05.055 --> 00:38:10.035 And then I think what is so important to recognize is we go back to this concept 00:38:10.035 --> 00:38:11.795 that the brain is a don't get killed device. 00:38:11.795 --> 00:38:14.555 And so your brain is going to do everything it can 00:38:14.555 --> 00:38:17.655 to protect you and if it if you are continually showing 00:38:17.655 --> 00:38:20.475 up in an unhealthy relationship and your body 00:38:20.475 --> 00:38:23.815 goes into fight -or -flight mode and you are living this 00:38:23.815 --> 00:38:27.515 amygdala hijack this is where we start to see the body keeps the score in terms 00:38:27.515 --> 00:38:31.695 of a lot of different physical ailments because I feel like what your body's 00:38:31.695 --> 00:38:35.555 saying is okay if you won't do something about this yourself then let's start 00:38:35.555 --> 00:38:39.315 throwing some autoimmune issues some irritable bowel syndrome some fibromyalgia 00:38:39.315 --> 00:38:40.895 some migraine headaches. 00:38:41.175 --> 00:38:45.115 There's even a concept called conversion disorder where you see people, 00:38:45.175 --> 00:38:47.775 I've had a couple of clients over the long haul, 00:38:48.095 --> 00:38:52.035 that have things like stroke, seizure, things like that, that then the doctor 00:38:52.035 --> 00:38:56.595 can't quite pin this is where this comes from and you just have to wonder is 00:38:56.595 --> 00:39:00.815 that just prolonged stress and then because the body is in this constant state of fight -or -flight, 00:39:01.275 --> 00:39:05.535 that then that's what happens then in meaning that the body does truly keep the score. 00:39:06.606 --> 00:39:09.266 The vicious cycle, then the more your amygdala is activated, 00:39:09.286 --> 00:39:12.526 the more it impacts other parts of your brain, like we go back to that prefrontal 00:39:12.526 --> 00:39:15.666 cortex, which is responsible for rational thinking, decision making, 00:39:16.046 --> 00:39:20.066 and creating that vicious cycle where your emotional responses get more and more out of control, 00:39:20.586 --> 00:39:23.326 and it makes it harder to think clearly and make good decisions. 00:39:23.326 --> 00:39:29.066 So, if, and Van der Kolk, he suggests that there are some different approaches 00:39:29.066 --> 00:39:34.586 to reset the amygdala, such as EMDR, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, 00:39:34.986 --> 00:39:36.886 mindfulness, yoga, talk therapy, 00:39:37.326 --> 00:39:40.766 but the idea is to teach your brain that it's okay to relax and turn down the 00:39:40.766 --> 00:39:41.926 volume on that alarm system. 00:39:42.426 --> 00:39:47.066 One of the benefits of talk therapy is that you are being able to express yourself 00:39:47.066 --> 00:39:50.786 with somebody who is saying, but then what happened? What was that like? Tell me more. 00:39:50.926 --> 00:39:54.646 I can't even imagine versus somebody saying, well, there's two sides to every 00:39:54.646 --> 00:39:56.886 story or why didn't you just leave? 00:39:57.206 --> 00:40:00.646 Or why didn't you? Because eventually then we're thinking, I can't talk to anybody about it. 00:40:00.766 --> 00:40:03.886 But the more we keep things in our brain and we ruminate and we worry, 00:40:03.946 --> 00:40:08.186 it causes even more stress and so it is so powerful to be able to express, 00:40:08.586 --> 00:40:12.026 process, release those things in a safe way. 00:40:12.546 --> 00:40:16.826 And then the whole concept of EMDR, I've been doing some more of the EMDR training myself, 00:40:17.326 --> 00:40:21.226 that it really is working off of this, I believe, I don't want to say that I 00:40:21.226 --> 00:40:26.806 know all of this stuff, but the concept of where when you're a kid and you're up and walking forward, 00:40:27.166 --> 00:40:30.686 you're continually scanning left, right, left, right, left, right, 00:40:30.746 --> 00:40:33.666 for safety, to make sure I'm not going to trip over toys or the family pet. 00:40:34.006 --> 00:40:35.846 And your brain is an amazing thing. 00:40:36.626 --> 00:40:40.406 And so over time, it says, okay, if there is this left, right movement, 00:40:40.406 --> 00:40:44.666 happening, then we must be safe so we can lower the cortisol levels of the brain. 00:40:45.026 --> 00:40:48.166 This is my understanding at least. Again, I'm so, especially on the Waking Up 00:40:48.166 --> 00:40:51.406 the Narcissism podcast, the last thing I want to do is say, this is how it works 00:40:51.406 --> 00:40:53.826 and I have confabulated this narrative and I'm unaware of it. 00:40:54.246 --> 00:40:58.446 But then the brain in an amazing way moving forward. 00:40:59.226 --> 00:41:03.846 I think it's Francine Shapiro is one of the pioneers of EMDR who discovered that, 00:41:04.126 --> 00:41:07.186 all right, if maybe the hypothesis is if the eye movement 00:41:07.186 --> 00:41:10.286 left right left right over time signifies safety that 00:41:10.286 --> 00:41:13.226 then we can do back -and -forth movement moving 00:41:13.226 --> 00:41:16.386 one's hand or tapping or I 00:41:16.386 --> 00:41:20.466 have these things called theratappers that vibrate left right left right and 00:41:20.466 --> 00:41:25.746 so the more that you receive this this what bilateral stimulation then it calms 00:41:25.746 --> 00:41:29.786 the amygdala down as we're learning now cortisol takes a rest and you can process 00:41:29.786 --> 00:41:33.786 things that maybe seemed scary and unprocessable, 00:41:34.756 --> 00:41:40.096 And then, I don't know if that was a word, and then over time it speeds up in 00:41:40.096 --> 00:41:45.476 essence this talk therapy process because you feel safe in processing these different things. 00:41:45.676 --> 00:41:48.476 And what's really fascinating if you haven't looked into EMDR, 00:41:48.996 --> 00:41:54.716 it's phenomenal because what you start seeing is your body really is reacting 00:41:54.716 --> 00:41:59.656 and trying to give you signals of things that it felt a long time ago. 00:41:59.656 --> 00:42:02.836 Where you might, I remember one of the people that I was working with, 00:42:03.156 --> 00:42:06.556 one of the first things that they noticed was a feeling that they had, 00:42:06.616 --> 00:42:07.616 I think it was in their stomach, 00:42:08.236 --> 00:42:12.836 of when they were younger and their mom wouldn't pick them up and they would 00:42:12.836 --> 00:42:15.136 be left and they would have to make excuses for their mom. 00:42:15.796 --> 00:42:20.856 And they could tell and sense that the people that were waiting with them were annoyed or irritated. 00:42:21.436 --> 00:42:25.276 And so then that brought up a visceral or gut reaction or feeling that then 00:42:25.276 --> 00:42:29.516 we could then identify, oh, now they're feeling that because they feel the same 00:42:29.516 --> 00:42:35.196 sense of abandonment or being alone or having to deal with things on their own in their relationship. 00:42:35.576 --> 00:42:39.816 So it really shows the power that you can have when you can calm that amygdala 00:42:39.816 --> 00:42:44.596 down and then tap into those emotions that really are there to try to help you. 00:42:44.916 --> 00:42:48.376 And before we wrap things up today, and I think this is probably we're due for 00:42:48.376 --> 00:42:52.496 another episode on complex post -traumatic stress disorder or CPTSD, 00:42:52.696 --> 00:42:55.516 but there's an article that I'll linked to by someone named, 00:42:55.596 --> 00:42:56.956 a person named Lachlan Brown, 00:42:57.416 --> 00:43:02.416 and it's called Neuroscience, the Shocking Impact of Narcissistic Abuse Has on the Brain. 00:43:02.936 --> 00:43:05.436 And so I'll just read a little bit here just as a sneak preview, 00:43:05.496 --> 00:43:06.736 and we'll cover this again soon, 00:43:06.796 --> 00:43:12.056 but I talked about this on one of the earlier episodes of Waking Up to Narcissism, 00:43:12.056 --> 00:43:16.176 but he says narcissistic abuse is one of the worst types of psychological abuse 00:43:16.176 --> 00:43:18.416 that one person can do to another, but unfortunately, 00:43:18.916 --> 00:43:21.076 many people are stuck in these types of relationships. 00:43:21.076 --> 00:43:25.296 He goes on to say that according to recent studies, neuroscientists have discovered 00:43:25.296 --> 00:43:30.396 that long -term narcissistic abuse can actually lead to physical damage to the brain. 00:43:30.856 --> 00:43:33.816 He says it's common knowledge these days that consistent emotional trauma over 00:43:33.816 --> 00:43:39.196 a long period of time can cause victims to develop both PTSD and CPTSD. 00:43:39.656 --> 00:43:42.616 And this is why anyone in a destructive relationship with a partner who cares 00:43:42.616 --> 00:43:46.916 little for the emotional well -being of their family should leave immediately, 00:43:47.076 --> 00:43:49.396 especially when there are children involved. which again, the whole premise 00:43:49.396 --> 00:43:51.436 of this podcast is I know that it isn't that easy. 00:43:52.310 --> 00:43:57.610 But he goes on to say that it can be really difficult because of the emotional basis. 00:43:58.130 --> 00:44:01.990 And what many people fail to realize is that emotional and psychological distress 00:44:01.990 --> 00:44:07.090 is only one side of the coin that victims of long -term narcissistic abuse experience. 00:44:07.530 --> 00:44:11.110 That there's also a physical aspect of brain damage involved when suffering 00:44:11.110 --> 00:44:12.550 consistent emotional abuse. 00:44:12.870 --> 00:44:16.970 The victims experience a shrinking of the hippocampus and a swelling of the amygdala. 00:44:17.150 --> 00:44:20.910 Both of these circumstances can lead to very devastating effects. 00:44:21.210 --> 00:44:24.190 The Hippocampus is crucial in learning and developing memories, 00:44:24.410 --> 00:44:27.690 while the amygdala is where negative emotions like shame, guilt, 00:44:27.810 --> 00:44:29.710 fear, and envy come to life. 00:44:29.710 --> 00:44:32.870 And then he goes on to talk more about the hippocampus, it's this Greek word 00:44:32.870 --> 00:44:35.750 for seahorse, part of the brain that's hidden inside each temporal lobe, 00:44:36.090 --> 00:44:38.150 looks basically like two seahorses. 00:44:38.430 --> 00:44:41.710 But one of the most important functions of the hippocampus is responsible for 00:44:41.710 --> 00:44:44.850 our short -term memory, which is the first step to learning. 00:44:45.310 --> 00:44:49.330 So information is first stored in the short -term memory before it can be converted 00:44:49.330 --> 00:44:54.170 to permanent memory. So without short -term memory, there can be no learning. 00:44:54.650 --> 00:44:58.530 So then damage to the hippocampus is a lot more disturbing than scientists initially thought. 00:44:59.050 --> 00:45:02.330 He quotes a study from Stanford University and the University of New Orleans 00:45:02.330 --> 00:45:05.850 where they found that there was a strict correlation between high levels of 00:45:05.850 --> 00:45:10.510 cortisol, the hormone caused by stress, and decreased volume to the hippocampus. 00:45:10.850 --> 00:45:14.510 So the more stressed people were, then the smaller their hippocampus became. 00:45:14.970 --> 00:45:17.790 And we've already talked a lot about the amygdala, but it's also known as the 00:45:17.790 --> 00:45:21.910 reptilian brain because it controls our primal emotions and functions including 00:45:21.910 --> 00:45:24.810 lust, fear, hate, as well as the heart rate and breathing. 00:45:25.230 --> 00:45:28.430 So when triggered, the amygdala is where the fight -or -flight response is made, 00:45:28.770 --> 00:45:32.930 so the narcissist will keep their victims in a state where their amygdala is constantly on alert. 00:45:33.410 --> 00:45:36.410 And then eventually these victims fall into a permanent state of anxiety or 00:45:36.410 --> 00:45:40.030 fear, what we've talked about today, with the amygdala reacting to the slightest 00:45:40.030 --> 00:45:43.790 signs of abuse, where that reaction can be just so immediate. 00:45:44.210 --> 00:45:46.770 Then long after the victim has escaped the destructive relationship, 00:45:46.890 --> 00:45:51.150 they'll continue to live with these PTSD symptoms, sometimes increased phobias 00:45:51.150 --> 00:45:56.230 or panic attacks, due to that enlarged amygdala that's become used to living in a state of fear. 00:45:56.770 --> 00:46:00.370 So to protect themselves from their reality, the victims often use reality -bending 00:46:00.370 --> 00:46:03.730 defense mechanisms that make it easier to cope, such as projection, 00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:07.350 that victims often convince themselves that their narcissist abuser has these 00:46:07.350 --> 00:46:08.630 positive traits and intentions, 00:46:09.150 --> 00:46:12.390 such as compassion, understanding, when in reality that might not be the case. 00:46:12.710 --> 00:46:15.130 And this is where we've talked about that intermittent reinforcement, 00:46:15.430 --> 00:46:18.970 where the person that delivers the punishment can also then deliver the reward. 00:46:19.430 --> 00:46:22.790 Or compartmentalization, where victims focus on the positive parts of the relationship, 00:46:23.230 --> 00:46:27.790 separating them from the abusive parts and therefore mostly ignoring those negative parts. 00:46:28.210 --> 00:46:32.150 Or denial, believing that their situation isn't really as bad as they feel and 00:46:32.150 --> 00:46:34.750 that it's easier to live with it than rather to confront it. 00:46:35.170 --> 00:46:38.430 And then a damaged hippocampus, which then, according to Lachlan Brown, 00:46:38.510 --> 00:46:39.890 it can cripple everything that we know. 00:46:40.390 --> 00:46:43.610 So that hippocampus is perhaps the most crucial part of the brain when it comes 00:46:43.610 --> 00:46:46.890 to knowledge and function, and everything that we do, understand, 00:46:47.090 --> 00:46:49.630 read, and learn rests solely on the hippocampus functioning properly. 00:46:50.070 --> 00:46:54.130 So this is because the hippocampus can be involved in the formation of new memories, 00:46:54.250 --> 00:46:56.670 and also it's associated with learning and emotions. 00:46:56.970 --> 00:47:00.230 But if the hippocampus is damaged, when the body releases cortisol, 00:47:00.510 --> 00:47:02.750 that hormone again released during times of stress. 00:47:03.570 --> 00:47:07.490 Then cortisol in effect is attacking the neurons in the hippocampus causing 00:47:07.490 --> 00:47:11.650 it to shrink, and then the amygdala is stimulated by the cortisol which then 00:47:11.650 --> 00:47:16.470 turns our thoughts and neural activity from increasing our mental acuity to worry and stress. 00:47:16.890 --> 00:47:23.790 But then what is good is that the the neuroplasticity of the brain is a very real thing. 00:47:24.370 --> 00:47:28.630 So there is a way back to normal functioning brain, but there is a way back 00:47:28.630 --> 00:47:29.830 to normal functioning brain. 00:47:30.050 --> 00:47:34.670 Loughlin says that through certain methods like EMDR, victims exhibiting signs 00:47:34.670 --> 00:47:38.250 of PTSD can regrow 6 % of their hippocampus in just a few sessions. 00:47:38.870 --> 00:47:42.850 And then EMDR can also calm the amygdala at the same time, allowing your brain 00:47:42.850 --> 00:47:47.630 to react more rationally to situations, as well as doing things like talk therapy, 00:47:47.930 --> 00:47:49.270 mindfulness, meditation, 00:47:49.730 --> 00:47:55.050 any active practice that is lowering that baseline cortisol level or that resting heart rate. 00:47:55.550 --> 00:47:58.390 But then the first step is pretty safe to say 00:47:58.390 --> 00:48:01.430 doing what you can to get out of that destructive 00:48:01.430 --> 00:48:07.410 or abusive relationship before any progress can be made because if you are continuing 00:48:07.410 --> 00:48:11.290 to put yourself in these situations where your body is truly keeping the score 00:48:11.290 --> 00:48:16.590 then it really can be something that you're emotionally compromised and so that 00:48:16.590 --> 00:48:20.830 can be one of the biggest challenges to getting out of that unhealthy relationship. 00:48:21.070 --> 00:48:25.670 This is a thing where if you've made it to this point in the podcast then I 00:48:25.670 --> 00:48:29.050 know that you're showing up, I know that you're trying to do the work, 00:48:29.130 --> 00:48:31.010 I know you want a better relationship, 00:48:31.290 --> 00:48:34.970 you want to feel better, you want to do what's right for you and your family 00:48:34.970 --> 00:48:37.570 and so you are taking those steps. 00:48:38.150 --> 00:48:42.290 And so it might feel scary to hear those things like the complex post -traumatic 00:48:42.290 --> 00:48:46.410 stress disorder or the things that happen to the brain but at some point it's 00:48:46.410 --> 00:48:50.210 again knowledge is power and you're going from the place where you didn't know 00:48:50.210 --> 00:48:54.270 what you didn't know and now you know but it still is really hard to do anything 00:48:54.270 --> 00:48:56.710 different and that's part of the human experience. It's okay, 00:48:56.790 --> 00:48:57.710 give yourself some grace. 00:48:58.310 --> 00:49:02.470 But the more that you're aware of the tools and you're doing the work and hearing 00:49:02.470 --> 00:49:07.930 all these different concepts that they'll slowly move from going from I didn't 00:49:07.930 --> 00:49:11.130 know what I didn't know to I know but I don't do very often to now I'm doing 00:49:11.130 --> 00:49:14.510 more than I don't and then eventually we'll land in just this good old place 00:49:14.510 --> 00:49:17.730 of becoming and being and and so you're on your way, 00:49:17.830 --> 00:49:20.550 you're on your path. So I would highly recommend that you, 00:49:21.100 --> 00:49:25.560 Find somebody, a professional who works in this world, this field, 00:49:25.700 --> 00:49:30.980 this world of emotional immaturity, or maybe even personality disorders or abuse, 00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:34.080 and start getting the right tools. Listen to podcasts. 00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:38.620 There's no scarcity mindset when it comes to the world of, hopefully, 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:41.800 with podcasts or therapists that are working in this world or this field. 00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:45.600 Listen to them all, compare them, contrast them, find your own personalized 00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:50.100 treatment plan, and just know that you are, you know, you're right where you 00:49:50.100 --> 00:49:52.720 need to be. And when people say, how long is it going to take? 00:49:53.080 --> 00:49:56.320 It will take as long as it takes. And I know that sounds, that can almost sound 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:57.140 a little bit dismissive. 00:49:57.240 --> 00:50:00.420 But if you're ruminating and worrying and beating yourself up, 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:05.780 just know that that is absolutely a waste of emotional calories and time, but it happens. 00:50:05.780 --> 00:50:09.260 And so the more that you can just notice that you are maybe ruminating or worrying 00:50:09.260 --> 00:50:12.440 and then bring yourself back to the present moment And then take action and 00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:16.380 do things that really matter to you then Overtime what it feels like to be you 00:50:16.380 --> 00:50:18.440 as somebody that takes action All right. 00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:21.520 Hey, give me your questions your thoughts your comments anything that I can 00:50:21.520 --> 00:50:26.120 do to help and Thanks for joining me and I'll see you next week on waking up to narcissism. 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:33.155 Music.