Music.
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 89 of Waking Up to Narcissism. I am your host Tony Overbay.
I am the host of the Virtual Couch podcast as well as this one, Waking Up to Narcissism.
Waking Up to Narcissism, premium question and answer, and then Murder on the Couch,
which we have filmed another episode, my daughter Sydney and I. So if you haven't already subscribed
or followed that podcast, please do. It's true crime meets therapy, and then The Mind,
The Mirror, and Me with my daughter McKinley. And to show that it's not all nepotism, I,
I also, just last week, the first episode of Love ADHD, where genius meets scatter,
which is with my co-host and friend who just found out about her adult ADHD diagnosis
while I've been sitting with mine for years and just loving every minute of it.
It's Love ADHD and that just debuted last week as well. Actually, if you just wanna go sign up for my newsletter,
last week's was specifically tailored to waking up to narcissism,
where I talked about my five things that one must do when waking up to the narcissism
or emotional immaturity in their relationships.
And I almost feel like today, this is gonna be one of those PBS pledge drives
that is going to date me. It was local public television.
And back in the day, a couple of times a year, you're a kid and you're trying to watch,
I don't know, Arthur, who I honestly never knew, was he a bear, was he an aardvark?
But there are people talking when you tune in as a kid, and there are people on the phones,
and they're trying to raise money, and you had no idea what was going on.
But if you gave a certain amount, then you got a VHS tape of the history of goldfish.
But I am not asking for money, although I guess it wouldn't hurt
if you went to the Waking Up to Narcissism
Premium Question and Answer Podcast and subscribed to that.
But I would be grateful if you happen to be on Instagram and you just take a second and find
the new Waking Up to Narcissism Instagram account, which is at WUTNpod,
so Waking Up to Narcissism Pod, as in podcast,
and just hit that follow.
And it is, again, it's a new Instagram account.
I will not provide you with a VHS cassette or anything about goldfish or bears or aardvarks,
but I really would be grateful.
And I really wanna get to today's topic because it's one that I've spent a lot of time researching.
But if you have a second, maybe if this is my PBS pledge drive,
not only if you can sign up for that Instagram account, but if you happen to like the content
of Waking Up to Narcissism, and you don't mind hitting a rating button
or leaving a review wherever you listen to your podcast,
that would help a lot.
It's really funny, at the risk of sounding manipulative because I'm truly coming from a place of authenticity
and healthy ego, I'm humbled by all the positive feedback, all the good reviews, nothing warms my heart
more than honestly reading your stories.
I mean, it breaks my heart as well, but especially when somebody realizes that this is not,
They're not alone, but then yet the stories are really hard.
And I want to answer your questions and I want to read the stories and the poems and the haikus and everything.
So please continue to send those in.
I get a chance to read them and I love it when I can put something on the air.
I probably had another half a dozen or so men, as a matter of fact, in the last couple of weeks who said,
this is the way the pattern goes.
In essence, they catch their wife listening to me. Then they hate me, my name, the sound of my voice.
And then they listen because I think they want to pick me apart.
And then they realized I am friend and I want to help. And then they're realizing a lot of things.
My point, though, is every now and again, the man, the woman, the individual in that scenario doesn't make it past the part where they hate me and then they leave a bad review.
And it's really fascinating because I really don't want to care about the bad reviews, but what they do is then it gives an overall negative or maybe a lower rating so then some people might pass on it, especially if they're on that fence of,
I don't even know if I want to start going down the path of is my spouse or is my friend or partner or whoever it is.
Narcissistic and I would love to get them listening to the content so we can get that narrative back to are they emotionally immature?
Do I not know what I don't know and all those wonderful things that I love sharing on the podcast
So it takes a lot of good reviews and good numbers then To make up for one person who just flies off the handle and gives a negative review, but I digress.
So thank you everybody for your support So today's topic is one that I've been working on for a while, and it comes from a question from somebody that I will have on the show soon, in one of the group phone calls.
So thank you, Lori. But we were talking about forgiveness and how we are counseled and encouraged and cajoled and made to feel almost bad if we don't forgive.
You know, the adage, forgive and forget. Forgiveness is of God. And all those things that in the right context, I am with you.
But let's talk about forgiveness versus acceptance and what that looks like.
But first I want to spend some time.
I'm going to set the table pretty intentionally because this really is a topic that we need to give it as much room as it needs to get to that point
where we're talking about acceptance versus forgiveness.
So I will never not feel like there's a math equation, two negatives.
So I would like to always whenever I can talk about narcissism versus emotional
immaturity, because that is a real significant thing to frame all the conversations that I think that we're having on this
podcast. Well, maybe not all most all. So if we're exploring emotional immaturity within relationships, we're actually
wanting to look at that, even in our relationship with ourself,
because I will maintain that we're all emotionally immature until we're not. And while the term narcissism is literally
featured in the title of my podcast, that I really like clarifying that narcissistic personality disorder is actually
clinical diagnosis that affects a small population, a small portion of the population.
And emotional immaturity, I would say, then, is more of a widespread issue, and one that, again, many of us experience until life situations enable personal growth, given that we're open to self-confrontation, taking ownership of things and accountability.
Now with narcissism, I think it's important to talk about
the clinical part of narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder because by definition, that involves
a pervasive pattern of grandiosity,
a lack of empathy, and a deep, deep need for excessive admiration.
And these are fixed patterns that have significant impacts on the person's social and even occupational functioning.
And so then a narcissistic person often then sees himself as uniquely deserving, and then they may exploit others
achieve their goals, but this is because of the personality disorder. And because of that,
it requires a specialized therapeutic intervention. And I mean, it's safe to say the prognosis varies,
but because a true, grandiose, diagnosable narcissist or narcissistic personality disorder.
Doesn't really dawn the doors at the therapist's office. So that's why I feel like a lot of the
people that I see or that I'm more speaking to are emotionally immature. Because that,
That, on the other hand, it's a more broad, I would say, common condition,
and it can manifest as an inability to handle emotions,
like uncomfortable emotions,
then difficulty in understanding and respecting the feelings of others,
a lack of self-reflection,
and then an unwillingness to take responsibility for actions.
Unlike narcissism, emotional immaturity is not necessarily a fixed state.
It's typically a developmental phase or a byproduct of somebody's environment
and the experiences that they've had, because those experiences can be what they saw modeled growing up.
And that's why I talk so much about what do we do with our discomfort? Are we willing to get rid or sit with our discomfort? Are we trying to get rid of our discomfort?
Now, over on the virtual couch, I'm going to talk in the next week or so about a couple of stories that are in the news, the mainline press.
And there's one, and I will just throw the word, we'll put some alleged in here, but there's a case out about a woman named Ruby Franke and her therapist, Jodi Hildebrand.
And I've had some interactions with people that have worked with Jodi, and it's really interesting because right there is a genesis of where you go in counseling.
So, I want to encourage people to know that it is, of course, it's part of the human condition to feel uncomfortable, but that's our opportunity for growth.
When we can sit with that discomfort, it can teach us a lot of things about ourselves.
And I will talk more about this on this episode over on the virtual couch, but from some of the people that I have worked with that have worked with that therapist in the past, and this is all coming from directly from these people, so we'll admit that it might be just anecdotal evidence, but we're starting to hear more and more come out in the news about this.
But there was a almost a completely different experience with discomfort there, which I think almost speaks to what we're talking about here of narcissism versus emotional immaturity, but where, you know, people there that were coming out of some of her programs were being told that if you have that discomfort, you have to get rid of it because and you're the only one that may know the person that's providing that you with that discomfort may be bad, it may be evil, and so then you need to do whatever you need to do to try to get them give that discomfort back to them.
So you can see that it's a completely opposite approach, which I think is incredibly damaging.
So, if you look at it...
Emotional immaturity then more is this developmental phase or byproduct of one's environment versus the grandiosity of this is what you do, period.
You can start to see the difference of narcissism, which is grandiose.
There's a complete lack of empathy. It's not just that I don't want to sit with the uncomfortable emotions and I want to shut down or turn to unhealthy coping mechanisms or gaslight or it's there's no room for that because I am right.
And if you are not listening to me, then you are absolutely wrong. Again, kind of the basis of that grandiosity.
With emotional immaturity, when you start to get some self-awareness, be able to self-confront,
a maybe more supportive environment, then individuals can, I'm not saying they always do.
Because it takes a lot of work, but you can grow out of that immaturity.
The importance of taking accountability, that is such a big part of learning to overcome
our emotional immaturity. Taking accountability for somebody's actions, our own actions,
it's a hallmark of emotional maturity. Because this involves acknowledging your own mistakes,
understanding the impact that they may have on others, and then taking steps to rectify that,
whether you are rectifying with that person, or if you can honestly recognize that it's okay.
To make mistakes. It's okay to have, unfortunately, hurt someone's feelings,
or even forgot to do something, or not followed up on something. And emotional maturity is owning
that, sitting with the discomfort, using that as an opportunity for growth and connection with
with somebody else. You start to show up more steady and calm and emotionally safe. But I digress. We've got so much to get to today. So I want to talk about some of the benefits of, first of all, taking ownership or acknowledging your role in things. And this is honestly, I want this to happen internally at first, because if I am really with an incredibly emotionally immature person that is not doing their own work, or a narcissist, you're in this scenario, you're actually handing them your buttons. So right now, I want you to just
look internal and say, all right, am I doing this?
Am I able to do this?
And if so, then this is an opportunity for growth. Some of the benefits of taking ownership,
self-understanding, by acknowledging our flaws and our mistakes, we get a clearer picture of who we are,
which is one of the main first steps towards self-improvement.
Again, I'll probably say this a bunch of times, but I'm talking about this from a standpoint of this is for you to listen to, and this is for you to then self-identify.
Because if you are saying, if you go to your, if you feel like you're in an emotionally abusive or a relationship with somebody that's emotionally immature, and you're saying,
I just heard this this podcast and I I realized I don't take ownership of my own stuff. Oh, you just handed him a button
so then at that point now it becomes part of their repertoire or the buttons they can push if,
They don't want to take ownership or accountability is something kind of ironic
It will improve your relationships taking ownership or accountability with more emotionally mature people,
Because accountability starts to foster trust and understanding in relationships my bad. Oh, I'm so sorry
I didn't mean that, or you know what, you're right.
I handled that not in a way that I'm very, very proud of.
And that takes courage, and that provides emotional safety, especially when that's done consistently over time.
So it shows that you respect the feelings and experiences of others.
Now what's ironic again about emotional immaturity is someone may even say, well,
I don't want to hurt that person's feelings. So I am respecting their feelings,
and I am respecting their experience.
But in reality, are you not giving them an opportunity to show up?
Are you not giving yourself an opportunity to have even a deeper connection?
So another benefit is personal growth. Taking accountability and ownership
involves going through some discomfort,
but it's a process that I promise you inevitably leads to a type of growth,
some sort of personal growth,
which then will lead to some overall good old life satisfaction,
because over time, taking control of your actions and your, I mean, in that essence,
your life tends to lead to a greater satisfaction and just an overall well-being.
So in a mature relationship, both partners, and I'm talking, this is the ideal version,
both partners are ideally working toward a level of emotional understanding.
They recognize that emotional maturity is a journey. It's a goal, it's heading toward this destination.
It's not a final destination either.
It's an ongoing destination, but it does become easier.
But it involves sitting with discomfort, humbling oneself and being vulnerable,
all with the goal of mutual growth and a deeper, more authentic connection.
Let me set the table. This is one of these based off of a true story. Talk about two friends, and I was talking about a PBS pledge drive earlier.
Takes me back to the day, we're going to talk about Tom and Jerry, not the cat and mouse, which I'm not really sure which one is which.
But let's call these two real friends Tom and Jerry. And I worked with one of these people.
But they both grew up in a similar neighborhood, but their home lives were incredibly different.
This was a particular land, a land far away, where there was a rather affluent area, and then there was a less affluent, significantly less affluent area that was the proverbial across the tracks, but they both went to the same school.
So, these guys were friends.
Tom's family was affluent, but they were very emotionally distant.
They didn't spend a lot of time together, and most things were, most feelings were bought with money.
So his parents gave him whatever he wanted and everything he wanted materially, but they rarely offered emotional support or especially the emotional support that a child needed.
Now, I'll be honest, I'm working with Jerry when we were discussing all this, so Tom truly didn't know what he didn't know.
Now, on the other hand, Jerry's family did not have much in terms of material wealth, but they were pretty emotionally present, but they were pretty inconsistent, bless their hearts, and they were incredibly overprotective.
So, he does feel like they almost protected him too much, so that he did not necessarily
know the right way to show up in emotionally abusive friendships or in situations where
he had some strong opinions, but he didn't want to upset anybody or make anybody mad.
As Tom and Jerry, the two friends grew into teenagers and then into adulthood, they were
still pretty close, did a lot together, but then the differences really started to become parent.
And Tom, and I've never met Tom, but clearly was exhibiting traits that seemed pretty consistent with a true narcissistic personality disorder.
He became incredibly self-centered, and he viewed himself as deserving of very special treatment over and over again.
And so he would manipulate situations to make sure that he was the center of attention.
Jerry, and I did not catch him at the time, it was later as we were processing this,
absolutely showed signs of extreme emotional immaturity, especially when he was interacting with Tom.
It was like he had held a spell over him.
So he would go along with whatever Tom wanted and he would rarely, I mean, if ever stand up for himself or assert his own needs.
So there's two particular examples where I want to start talking about what the emotional immature and the narcissist look like in the real world.
So this was a birthday party. Let's say it was Tom's 30th birthday party.
Tom, of course, was wanting all the attention on him. He literally demanded gifts.
And Jerry had actually taken a picture back in the day of the invitation to Tom's 30th birthday party, which I wish I had access to it, but it was, hey, come celebrate me and you better show up.
You better bring things. And yeah, you are going to really get to spend some time with me and see how successful I've been at this point in my 30th year.
He would get pretty visibly upset if somebody else even momentarily became the focus of conversations at this party.
So how did our guy Jerry react?
He not only catered to Tom's every whim, but he also let Tom belittle him in front of others just to keep the peace.
They had two different jobs, and Tom just loved to make fun of Jerry's job.
Jerry laughed it off, but deep inside, he felt very small. He felt very inconsequential.
Now let's fast forward a little bit to what we'll call the career milestone.
So a few years later, Jerry is getting a promotion at work. He loves his job. He loves what he does. He doesn't make a lot of money.
But it's a big promotion.
So instead of being happy for his friend, Tom then made sure to show up for this promotion.
Event and made it all about himself that he likes that he got took center stage and made sure and said i really thought i mean this is cute this is adorable what jerry's doing i really thought he would do a lot more with his life but you know what good for him that he's able to settle with where he's at it was and that was part of this long monologue about then and he was able to work into how much more important tom's job was how much more demanding it was,
and that how if this is what Jerry needed to help him feel better, then Tom
was so grateful to be a part of that moment because they'd grown up for so long and he had seen Tom just continue to not follow his dreams. So what a treat
if you can even imagine that. What does Jerry do in that moment? He does not
stand up for his own achievement, then he downplays it. Gets up to the mic and says,
yeah, you know, you're right. Boy, Tom's really been a big part of my life and I'm just grateful that he's here. So he made it about Tom, even at Jerry's
promotion. So in these situations, you can see how Tom's narcissistic tendencies and
Jerry's emotional immaturity play off of each other. And how often are we seeing
that in relationships? Is it in your relationship, your romantic relationship,
your friend relationship? But Tom continues to seek admiration, excessive admiration, no empathy, while Jerry then enables the behavior because he's
emotionally immature. So he fails to stand up for himself or take responsibility for his emotional well-being. I think that's one of the
keys, often sacrificing his own needs for the sake of maintaining the peace.
Maintaining a relationship that is not healthy, it is one-sided.
So what's fascinating here is that Tom and Jerry could both benefit from introspection,
but it would mean something completely different. But to the paths that they would need to take,
to become more healthy would be so different. For Tom, it would be a deep, deep level of self-awareness
and professional help because he is displaying traits of a personality disorder. I don't think
he would ever grace the doors of a therapist's office. Jerry, on the other hand, came in, started
to find his way through emotional immaturity, learning to stand up for himself, setting
boundaries, taking responsibility for his actions and emotions. And here is one of the key things
that I and here's we're going to start to paint more of the picture as we lead toward acceptance
and forgiveness. That even as I just said the concept of standing up for himself, that he
needed to learn to stand up for himself, I think too often that is misunderstood. People often think
that standing up for themselves means becoming aggressive, confrontational, even mirroring the
toxic behavior they're trying to counter because that's the way that they've seen this person
gain control. Or even in Jerry's situation, his own parents would be so calm and kind until they
would snap. So I want to introduce today to you a middle ground and I want to call it calm,
confident energy. I've mentioned it on previous podcasts. It's something I share with my clients
often. We have this pendulum that we swing from just incredibly emotionally nice and passive
to then if you're watching on the YouTube channel, I've just got my hand up and then you go all the
the way over to the other side and now you're angry and you're somebody that you never wanted.
To be. And that is reactive. And then you beat yourself up because you were the nice
person and you beat yourself up because you think, well, I did yell. Jerry would think
I would yell at Tom. I ended up getting so mad at Tom. I wasn't supporting him. There's
a term, it's reactive abuse, which that's, it is what happens.
I want to start talking about calm, confident energy. It's a space where you can assert yourself without being combative or defensive.
It's about standing your ground, but also respecting the other person's perspective.
And by respecting, it doesn't even mean that you are acquiescing or agreeing, but I respect that that is their opinion.
And we'll talk here in a little bit, I've been talking a lot about differentiation lately, or at one point we introduced the concept of holding the assertive frame.
I'm not going to be a victim. I know that that other person is either testing the relationship for safety, or they feel emotionally insecure.
And so I'll put that connection ahead of fear or ego. And now is not the time to explain my love or defend myself
or break the other person down, but I would really recommend going and finding that episode
where I talk about holding the assertive frame.
So let's talk more about what is calm, confident energy. It is about being assertive without being confrontational.
It's about communicating your needs and wants clearly if that is the right thing to do, if that feels safe.
And if you have to even communicate these and know these internally, then it's a process.
Because again, if you are expressing yourself and making your needs and wants known
to an emotionally mature narcissistic individual, it still can be an empowering thing,
but just know that you are also including a set of your buttons to go along with that.
But I really want this to either be an internal process or it's something that people do start to want to share.
Or you can share your needs and wants very clearly with people that are safe.
And you can do that while also listening to and respecting the needs and wants of others.
And the balance of this calm, confident energy, It will, in healthy relationships,
it enables honest and respectful conversations and it makes you less susceptible
to manipulation or emotional coercion.
That's the key.
So I know it could sound from some of the things I've shared in the past like I'm going back on the you're not going to give them the aha moment or the epiphany and that is absolutely not what I'm talking about in this scenario.
But in this one, if you are finding yourself playing small or less than and this is part of that waking up to the narcissism or the emotional immaturity in your relationship or even in yourself.
And this goes right off of the, from episode one, we've said that if you're listening,
you're trying to figure a lot of things out, and which I'm so grateful for,
because most likely, if you've heard anything about narcissism, it says just run.
Don't even finish this podcast, but I know that you are going on a path
of trying to figure out, can I fix this?
Is this narcissism? Is it extreme emotional immaturity? Is it something that I just didn't know what I didn't know,
and most people go back into their relationships and say, I can fix this,
but in the process of your becoming, then you're going to learn new tools.
And part of this is gonna be as you try to implement those tools in your relationship
with the emotionally immature or narcissistic person, and they don't work,
but then you are doing those in healthier relationships, that gives you a lot of data to work with.
That is part of the answer right there. So again, what does it look like in practice? Let's look at Jerry.
Instead of him being a doormat or swinging to the other extreme and lashing out at Tom,
If Jerry is adopting the calm, confident energy
when responding to situations, then at that birthday party, when Tom belittles him,
Jerry would calmly but confidently say, and I think this is part of the key too,
if it's in a one-on-one situation, you may still wanna do this because you're trying to test the waters
and really try to see that,
hey, it is absolutely okay for me to express myself, because it is.
You are allowed to have your own thoughts and opinions, and being belittled is not part of any healthy relationship.
An adult relationship, love or control, not both, just one, and that does not fall under the category
or the column of love.
So in that scenario, Jerry's saying, Tom, it's your birthday, we are here to celebrate you.
And I'm super proud of you, happy birthday, but that doesn't give you the right to put me down.
Now he's not attacking Tom, nor is he cowering, but he's simply asserting his self-worth.
Or if we go back to Jerry's promotion, when Tom dismisses his achievement, Jerry could respond with,
Hey everybody, thank you, Tom. What a joy. And I love his friendship. I value his opinion.
But I will tell you guys, because you know this is a promotion, people in the company,
friends that are close to me, healthier friends, this is significant. And I'm so grateful to be
here for all the people that have supported. So I just, I'm standing up for myself. He's now not
saying that part, but he's just doing and being, standing up for himself. So again, standing is
is ground somewhat without being confrontational
or without being defensive.
So the benefits of this calm, confident energy, emotional balance, by not getting overly emotional,
you're more likely to think clearly and articulate your thoughts effectively.
We'll talk about that in a little bit because we're gonna talk about the brain.
Respect, operating from this place of calm, confident energy generally leads others
to respect you more, even if they don't necessarily agree with your point of view.
And this is a significant part of your own waking up to your own emotional immaturity
or becoming more emotionally mature is that the more that you calmly,
confidently express yourself and are consistent and steady and come from this place of a healthy ego.
You start to find the people that do feel safe, the people that do wanna connect.
It's a lot easier to then see the people that are saying, well, I don't like what you said,
or I think you're wrong, and that is okay, I appreciate that.
I'll take a look at that information, but I'm the one that really knows me best,
which is such a key point in becoming more emotionally mature.
Now, inner peace, there is a, I promise you, there is a certain tranquility in knowing
that you've expressed yourself honestly and respectfully, regardless of how the other party reacts.
That can be difficult and there are people that have, they do this until they feel like
they can't do it anymore, it's not safe.
So a lot of the people that I work with that are starting to express themselves,
waking up to their own emotional immaturity and then becoming more emotionally mature.
I sometimes look at this as part of the rule out of that they are going to express themselves
And then if that is not reciprocated or appreciated or met with empathy or appreciation,
then at least they now have that data that they know how to do that.
They are of worth, it's okay to express myself.
But then if that does not go well, then that's not a me issue,
because that's okay for me to do. So I hope you can see there's a nuanced way
to stand up for yourself that does not involve becoming what you're trying to avoid.
By embodying this calm, confident energy, you can start to navigate even the trickiest emotional landscapes
with, I will say, grace and integrity.
And those feel amazing. A couple of weeks ago on waking up to narcissism,
and then the week before that on the virtual couch, I did a very deep dive into the concept of differentiation.
And because it is such a significant part of your awakening process of starting to learn
that every interaction truly can be an opportunity for me to self-confront and grow.
Because why am I feeling the way I'm feeling? Am I feeling the way I'm feeling
because, oh, that person is providing me with some data and I need to self-reflect.
Yes, but that data could also be that's that is not something that is healthy if that person is saying, well, I don't like what you're doing or I think that you need to do something different, then I'm feeling that way because of that other person.
And it's because they are trying to manipulate me or they have an expectation of me. That is a them issue. And I don't mean that sounding like a being I'm being mean, but it is.
Murray Bowen, father of differentiation, his concept of differentiation of self, it just aligns well with this concept of calm, confident energy, because differentiation of oneself is the ability to separate one's intellectual and emotional functioning.
So a well-differentiated person can hold onto their beliefs without letting their emotional reactivity dictate their actions.
I can hold on to my belief that I crave connection or my belief that I am okay, that I am enough, that I'm allowed to have an opinion, even though I'm going to feel a desire to react emotionally to the person that is trying to take away my opinion or my right to be myself.
You can maintain your integrity in the face of pressure to conform and you can manage your anxiety in challenging situations by becoming more differentiated.
Now, how differentiation relates to this calm, confident energy?
Calm, confident energy embodies this essence of differentiation because it's all about being emotionally balanced while standing firm in your beliefs and your values.
So just like a well-differentiated individual, somebody with calm, confident energy can express themselves honestly and without becoming reactive or defensive or confrontational.
And so you can turn opportunity into growth. Now, how? Here we're back to our old friend discomfort.
Recognizing discomfort. Differentiation allows you to identify emotional discomfort and it basically becomes a signpost, a beacon for growth.
Growth. So when you are differentiated, you're more likely to view challenges not as threats, but as opportunities
for self exploration and development. And it is not as easy as I'm making it sound. When someone is in a an abusive
or narcissistic relationship, I think all I'm trying to make the point of is that you can still notice, recognize, have this as
part of what it feels like to be you internally, that I am of worth, I deserve a healthy connection, it's okay for me to
have opinions, and I'm feeling unsafe because of the way that this person is interacting with me, then that is part of the data that I need to
know, is this okay for me to try to stay in this relationship or navigate this
relationship? Because it is not okay to just continually be on edge or have
your central nervous system fried because you are worried about if you can express yourself or how can I manage this other person's emotions around me?
So, managing your own emotional reactivity, a well-differentiated person or somebody who operates from, again, this calm, confident, energetic state, they can avoid reacting impulsively to these emotional triggers.
They can start to process their emotions more rationally, and that helps them navigate complicated interactions.
So, this differentiation, that calm, confident energy, it helps you break back into your own independent thinking.
Differentiation, calm, confident energy, they encourage independent thinking because you can disagree respectfully, even if the other person isn't open to your perspective. That's absolutely fine.
This empowers you to maintain your own integrity in any interaction.
And this becomes a pretty big key in interacting with difficult people because even when you're dealing with somebody not open to your viewpoint or any other viewpoint,
Because again, the emotionally immature, the incredibly emotionally immature,
they think that if you have your own opinion, then that means you are telling them
that their opinion is wrong, which is not the case.
It's okay to have two different opinions. As a matter of fact,
that's one of the most beautiful things in life is that we're two different individuals.
When we start to feel an emotional connection and safe with each other,
then let's explore each other's opinion. Because of course, we have slightly nuanced
or different opinions because we grew up in completely different situations.
So while we may initially get together with this fear of abandonment.
So we're thinking, yeah, I agree with pretty much everything they say.
I'm not gonna, I don't wanna make somebody upset.
But then as you start to grow together, then it only makes sense that you start to explore your own opinions
and you have curiosity and that's a way to connect with your partner.
So when you have these alternative viewpoints and if you maintain your calm, confident energy,
then it allows you to learn from the experience.
So both people are doing this, it's phenomenal.
It becomes this exercise in managing each of your own emotional responses
and it helps you refine your communication skills.
And that leads to this, I want to call it like this transformative potential to really change who you are in a good way.
Because over time, consistently practicing differentiation and maintaining this calm, confident energy,
it can fundamentally transform the way that you approach life's challenges.
And I promise you this, because when you start to get met by things that in the past you would have lost your mind or flipped your lid or any of those phrases,
you're noticing that this is a situation where it's not ideal, but I'm going to make it through it. And the calmer and more steady I am, the better decisions I'm going to be able to make in that moment. So it goes right back to every interaction becomes an opportunity to grow intellectually and spiritually.
So, by incorporating both the differentiation and calm, confident energy, you have now been equipped with the emotional intellectual tools to turn every situation, no matter how uncomfortable, into an opportunity for growth.
And again, sometimes it's going to be all on the inside, your inside voice, not like you're saying when you're inside the house, but in your head.
And this approach starts to make you more resilient. It makes you more adaptable.
Starting to lean into what we call an act, acceptance and commitment therapy, good old
psychological flexibility, because it's the first time you're going through life in this
moment with this set of variables.
So of course, it is okay to have completely different decisions or to find out new things about yourself.
On the Mind the Mirror Me, the podcast with my daughter McKinley a few weeks ago, she,
was talking about not necessarily being in the place that she thought she would be at
this point in her life.
And I was trying to be hilarious, but I said, oh, wow, that seems so strange that you now
in your 20s that the way that you thought life would turn out when you
were 12 hasn't really fallen straight to right to script because at 12 I think
pretty much right now I was gonna be an astronaut a pirate and a professional
baseball player and so far I'm over three if I look at those but I'm pretty
happy with my life. It's pretty fun.
Okay, let's talk about how you get to that calm, confident, energetic state and differentiation.
So, stay with me here because we are going to talk about my old friends mindfulness and
meditation. I feel like I'm doing an ad for them, but just let me tell you the brain stuff. This is
really fascinating. They're game changers when it comes to achieving what I call the calm,
confident energy or a well-differentiated state. So, let's break this down in a, we'll say, in a
very easy-to-understand way. Let's talk about the brain and your central nervous system.
So first, it's really important to understand that your central nervous system is like a
control center for your body. It's what gets you all fired up when you're angry, or what causes
you to chill, bruh, as the kids say these days. When you're relaxed, then I will leave that in.
Pardon me, I want to just take that right out. But when you're stressed, or anxious, or agitated,
it's usually because your central nervous system is on overdrive. Your brain's doing the whole,
well, hey, we're in danger and get ready to fight or run, even if we're just having a disagreement with a friend,
and not actually running away from a real lion or even Arthur the Aardvark,
which actually is not very intimidating.
Here comes mindfulness and meditation to the rescue. So how do these come in?
These practices are a workout for your central nervous system.
Just like I just ordered a little cold tub. They're not very expensive.
Matter of fact, I will put a link to it. I impulsively ordered one thanks to my son, Jake, who asked for one.
But even that, if you really look at the science around the cold pools, the cold plunges,
sitting in the ice, that it is stimulating your central nervous system to go into that
fight or flight response, and yet you are okay. You can clearly see there's no lying.
And so you start to just work on your breathing, and you're starting to tell your brain,
see, told ya, you can do this, you can calm yourself down and you're gonna be okay.
So, just like lifting weights makes your muscles stronger than mindfulness and meditation makes
your ability to control your emotional reactions better. And let me kind of tell you by experience.
First the science part, simplified.
So here's the cool science-y stuff. So consistent mindfulness and meditation practices have been shown to actually change the structure
of your brain.
Because they strengthen the areas of the brain responsible for attention and emotional control.
And this means that you get better at focusing and not letting your emotions run wild.
I've been on a real big roll for a little while. I've always enjoyed a meditation practice,
but I don't know if I've found a new meditation.
I'm just doing the meditation through the Peloton app, and I am tracking my heart rate through my sleep now,
and the workouts that I continue to do, and the meditation, and I've started to see a fairly significant drop
in just my average resting heart rate,
and the ability to lower my heart rate while even I meditate,
which I know means that I'm starting to calm my central nervous system,
and it's starting to say, okay, we kind of like this, we can stay here.
So, and that mindfulness and meditation helps you stay in the moment.
And let me just make sure that I cover this part.
Again, mindfulness, meditation, it's not about stopping thought,
it's not about clearing one's mind completely.
It's about changing the relationship you have with your thoughts.
So when you practice mindfulness, you are essentially treating yourself
or training yourself to stay present.
So the next time that somebody like Tom comes along for Jerry with his narcissistic behaviors
or emotional immaturity, you won't immediately react as if you've got to defend your life.
Instead, you can take a breath and square up your shoulders and consider your emotions
and choose how you respond thoughtfully.
Your buttons become harder to push because you've gained a level of emotional clarity.
So by being more mindful, you naturally become better at differentiation
because you can separate your emotional reactions
from your logical thoughts much more easily.
And this leads to that awesome, calm, confident, energy where you can now, if I say stand up for yourself,
again, it doesn't mean I'm being aggressive, but I can stand up for myself without losing my cool.
So in a nutshell, just remember, mindfulness, meditation, they are like emotional strength training
and they help you keep a clear head so you're better equipped to handle whatever life
or emotionally challenging people throw your way.
So let's get into the meat of today's podcast, acceptance and forgiveness.
I wanna talk about acceptance and willingness in the context of my favorite therapeutic modality,
acceptance and commitment therapy, so I will be referring to ACT a lot.
So in ACT, when we talk about acceptance, we're not just talking about putting up with things.
Acceptance doesn't mean apathy or grudgingly tolerating things.
But instead, acceptance means fully embracing your experiences in the present moment
without any resistance.
And the term willing is often used interchangeably with acceptance to emphasize the act of freely choosing to engage with our experiences.
But being willing or accepting again is not about trying to control how we feel or what we think.
Instead, it's about adopting a compassionate stance toward yourself about your past, about the programming that makes us who we are.
So, imagine it like you're holding a delicate object in your hands.
Acceptance means observing it closely without judgment, just being aware of it as it is.
Okay, I have to be completely transparent because I've been doing some work on a project where I am,
supposed to be doing some narcissistic translation work and it is meant to be funny.
So, my mind just went to, okay, let me break it down in more simpler terms, i.e.,
the narcissistic translation for this would be, let me get out the crayons and see if I can stick figure this bad boy for you, but I'm really not saying that.
So imagine if you're feeling anxious and you just think, man, I hate this. I do not want to feel
anxious. What acts says is that fighting that anxiety actually makes you more anxious. It's
like quicksand. The more you struggle, the deeper you sink. So acceptance here then means instead
of fighting the feeling, you just kind of give it a nod and say, okay, anxiety, I see you.
What's up? And I really do. I often say, oh, I see your brain. I see what you're doing. So,
you let it be there. You let the anxiety be there without pushing it away. You're not resigning
yourself to feeling anxious forever. You're just allowing yourself to feel what you're feeling
right now. And that's what willingness or acceptance is an act. And think of it like
choosing to feel your feelings and think your thoughts. Just letting them be without trying
to change them or judge them. You look at them like you'd look at an interesting object that
you're holding, you're curious, but you're not freaking out. That this is that
concept again of if I am unwilling to have it, I will.
Accepting
If I'm unwilling to be anxious, then I will have more anxiety around trying to avoid
all the things that might give me anxiety.
And I remember last Christmas working with, did anybody else go to Last Christmas I Gave You My Heart?
I mean, there's the way My ADHD works. It's a song, and I'm thinking of the George Michael version, or Wham.
But last Christmas, I was working with a client who was gonna go visit their future
potential new in-laws for Christmas, but they were just so anxious and nervous
about saying the wrong thing.
And so if they are unwilling to say the wrong thing, then they're gonna miss out on this entire opportunity.
So we talked about having an acceptance that yeah, I'll probably say the wrong thing,
but I'll also get to see the person's hometown. I'll meet his family and his parents and his siblings.
But if I'm worried about I might say the wrong thing, I'll miss out on all those.
But yeah, you might end up saying the wrong thing. Now, quite frankly, I don't think there is a wrong thing.
They're just things, and that's what this person would have said.
But I just thought that was a really interesting way to apply this.
And so then when she got back, she said, oh yeah, I said a couple things that I probably would deem as wrong,
but I had such a good time, I don't think it really matters.
So there was an acceptance there.
So founder of ACT, Dr. Stephen Hayes. So when Dr. Hayes talks about being willing or accepting,
it's like he's saying, hey, can I let myself just be, flaws and all, without trying to put on a brave face
or trying to change anything?
Because doing this helps you understand yourself better, and it's giving yourself a break
from constantly trying to control everything.
That's part of the thing that it can be so difficult. We just, we want certainty so bad
and we don't like discomfort.
And so then in order for us to think that we're gonna be able to do life better,
we feel like we gotta control everything.
And it turns out that's the exact opposite of what really can help.
So now let me start talking about forgiveness versus acceptance, especially for people
who find themselves waking up to harmful or emotionally immature relationships.
So you've got people, and this is, let's talk about the pathologically kind.
You have people who are nice, super nice, almost too nice, who've suddenly realized that they are stuck
in some pretty unhealthy relationships.
Maybe it's a partner who's narcissistic, or a boss who's just not very cool,
or even a religious group that is unwilling to change, or one that is starting to try to use more shame as a motivator.
So a lot of times, the first thing that that person feels I got to forgive them in order to move on.
But I would say, hang on, what if we flip the script? What if instead of focusing on forgiving the other person,
we focus on accepting what's happened?
Because remember earlier when I'm talking about acceptance, it's not about giving the harmful person a free pass.
It's about acknowledging your feelings and experiences without judgment.
And here's why this matters. I really believe that the idea that you have to forgive and forget,
it can in essence go against or mess with your own instincts.
That gut feeling that tells you something's off. Well, if you end up ignoring that,
because you think that I just have to forgive, no matter what.
You're basically telling your own emotions, hey, you really don't matter.
And at this point, that is not okay.
Now, why do so many good people end up in these situations in the first place?
A lot of us grow up in homes where emotions aren't really talked about.
Maybe your parents, and even again, if they meant well, always told you to stop making a big deal out of things.
Or maybe they said, well, well, what did you do to make the other person feel that way?
So instead of acknowledging how you felt, they might've even been trying to make themselves feel better
by getting you to suppress your emotions.
So whether it was a parent telling you not to cry because it made them uncomfortable
or saying that you should think of the other person's feelings first,
what they're actually doing was teaching you to doubt your own emotions and that's the kind of stuff
that sets you up for unhealthy relationships later on.
So instead of thinking that I need to forgive in order to heal, consider focusing on acceptance,
that I need to accept that that did happen and I'm gonna look at that just as it was, it happened.
And acceptance, again, doesn't mean that that person gets away with it or whatever that even means,
because this is about you.
So when you say, I need to forgive, and I believe, I am not trying to go all or nothing, black or white here.
That if that works for you, and you really, that forgiveness cleanses your soul,
and then when you are around that person, you don't feel any of the bad feelings or thoughts,
then that is a wonderful thing. What a gift.
But for most, when they are being told they need to forgive,
it's by someone else who is not them, who, even when they mean well, is saying,
hey, this is what I think you need to do, even though I have no idea what your situation is.
I don't know what it really was like to grow up like you, and I don't know what the interior landscape of your mind
has been when you've been in with this individual that you've maybe been trying to connect with
for two decades, and now I'm just saying, You just need to forgive them.
So again, acceptance, accepting what happened, accepting your feelings about it, and use that as a stepping stone to move forward.
Because understanding this concept of forgiveness requires considering both the societal and religious perspectives, because they often influence each other.
Because the societal definition of forgiveness, and in a societal context, forgiveness often involves letting go of anger, letting go of resentment, or the desire for revenge against somebody who has wronged you.
And it's frequently tied to phrases like forgive and.
You probably just said it right then, forget, which suggests that it's not just pardoning the offense,
but also wiping the slate completely clean.
So now if you think about it again, you're not being very forgiving.
So now all of a sudden I'm not even forgiving well, and I'm the one that I got emotionally abused.
So in essence, societal forgiveness often advocates for a restoration of the relationship to its previous state,
or at least releasing this emotional burden tied to what was happening,
what the wrongdoing for the sake of one's own well-being.
That is often something that will help another person feel good about your experience.
A parent, you just gotta forgive them, buddy.
And then I'm a good parent. Or a religious leader, bless their heart for real,
but saying, hey, you gotta forgive them.
If you want healing and growth, forgive them.
So I've got almost 20 years now as a therapist working so much with people that are beating themselves up
because they can't just forgive and forget. They can't just let it go.
They try and they're beating themselves up. But in reality, acceptance of that that happened.
And now, what an opportunity for growth.
Whether I need to start putting more boundaries in there or I need to recognize that because of that situation
and the acceptance that it happened, now I recognize that I do deserve to be loved or I am lovable.
And if we jump over into the biblical definition of forgiveness, in a Christian biblical context,
forgiveness takes on a more divine And now we enter in morality, like a moral dimension,
because it's often linked to the teachings of Jesus,
who I'm a big fan of, who advocated forgiving others
as a reflection of God's forgiveness toward humanity.
Then that's where scriptures like, "'Turn the other cheek' and parables like
"'The Story of the Prodigal Son' encourage not just forgiveness,
but also unconditional love and compassion." And I do feel like when you have the unconditional love
of Jesus, the Christ figure,
then that does, I love this concept of there's a framework or something to aspire to.
Because if I can't have that complete forgiveness towards someone, but I can have that acceptance,
now I can move towards someone that now I can maybe have more of a connected
or close relationship with.
But back to the, in the Christian context, forgiveness in this context is not just an act of personal release,
but a spiritual imperative, and almost this reflection that we'll feel that is about divine grace.
And I think that it's worth noting that there's a lot of people
depending on the religious group or organization, that even different interpretations of that can vary, and I recognize that within different religious communities.
But the general principle evolves around unconditional forgiveness as an act of love and mercy, even extending to one's enemies.
So, these definitions, the societal forgiveness and the biblical forgiveness, often, I think they illustrate the difficulty with this multifaceted nature of forgiveness and how it can differ depending on cultural and personal and religious backgrounds.
So let me dive a little bit deeper into the concept of acceptance in societal and now biblical notions of forgiveness.
So let's talk about acceptance versus societal forgiveness.
So if we go back to that in the societal understanding of forgiveness,
there's often this idea of not just pardoning the offense, but also wiping that slate clean.
And this implies that once you forgive, everything should go back to the way it was, or at least you should be free of the emotional weight of the offense.
But what if that slate has some deep grooves or chunks or a complete corner missing from it?
Or what if that offense was so significant that simply wiping it clean feels like an impossibility, or even a betrayal of your own feelings and experiences, that would lead you to go back to the what's wrong with me because I can't wipe this thing clean. I've tried with all the sandpaper in the world.
So acceptance offers a different path. It doesn't ask you to wipe the slate clean or pretend that the offense never happened. It says, this is your slate, and it has all of its grooves and missing chunks, and that's okay.
And there's an acceptance that this is what it is and that happened and acceptance is about then acknowledging,
What you feel and not forcing yourself into a narrative of forgiveness that might not feel true to you
It's not about anybody else's expectations It's about being true to what you feel because once you can accept that this is now my slate now,
what can I do with it because and I can come to an acceptance that it is still beautiful and.
Now you can start to recognize your own unique emotional landscape because everybody's is different,
Nobody else knows, from the troubles I've seen, I feel like I want to break into that spiritual, but nobody else knows what it feels like to be you, and that's okay.
So let's talk about acceptance in the context of biblical forgiveness.
So biblical forgiveness comes with its own set of complexities, particularly when viewed as a moral or divine imperative,
because the idea of turning the other cheek and extending forgiveness as an act of unconditional love or divine grace,
can sometimes clash with your own emotional or mental reality, especially if the offense has deeply impacted your life.
So when morality is involved, not forgiving can almost be construed as a moral failing and here comes the shame.
Not just that I feel bad, but you are bad, which is not the way that it works, in my opinion.
And I've never seen that shame component be part of a healing process, ever.
But then the people that sometimes then say this is what you need to do and I
think they mean well, but they don't know what it's like to be you.
So that, when you feel like you had a moral failing as well, just adds a whole other layer of guilt and shame to an already complicated emotional landscape.
So now let me take acceptance framed in the acceptance and commitment therapy model.
So that diverges from this as well because it doesn't moralize the situation.
Acceptance is not about what you should do based on a spiritual or ethical framework, it's about what you choose to do based on your own experiences and feelings.
And it doesn't necessarily mean it's a return to the previous state of the relationship,
or it's not a suppression of emotions for a perceived higher moral ground.
Instead, it focuses on the full acknowledgement of your experiences, your feelings, and the reality of the present moment.
So whether you're dealing with a societal pressure to forgive and forget,
or you're navigating the complex moral landscape tied to biblical forgiveness,
acceptance offers this alternative route because it centers on your emotional well-being.
And if you want to look at that as, and you are a child of God, you are the only version of you.
Fits right into that acceptance and commitment therapy model.
You're this unique blend of all of your nature and nurture and birth order and DNA and abandonment and rejection.
And so you have your own unique values and talents and abilities.
So then again, it goes back to centering on your emotional well-being and the reality of what you've lived through,
helping you move forward without the added burden of these external expectations.
So, I don't want to get too far away from the goal here. Let's not move away from you and your loving, compassionate self.
Because if you are trying to forgive and forget and wipe the slate clean, and you start going down that, what's wrong with me path,
you're going to move away from you and your loving, compassionate self.
And what really does make you, you. Because here's another ACT principle that I will just shout from the rooftops, and that is the concept of a socially compliant goal.
That if you are doing something simply because you think that you're supposed to or that that's what others will expect from you,
then your motivation to do so is going to be weak and ineffective because it goes against your own process of becoming or unfolding.
And then when we're living these this life full of social compliant goals and we're not even aware of what our core values are,
then we're going to be turning to our old friend experiential avoidance, which I will do anything other than the thing that I really don't buy into in the first place.
And so that's where people start to turn to unhealthier coping mechanisms, whether it is, I mean, I work so much in the world of people that turn to things like pornography and gambling and phones and food and all sorts of things as unhealthy coping mechanisms as a form of experiential avoidance because they don't really feel connected with who they want to be as a person.
And those traits that make you who you really are, those are essential and they are so important in the concepts of you being able to get to this place of acceptance for your own emotional well-being and growth.
So, I'm going to kind of stick with the Christian perspective for a moment.
I would argue that embracing acceptance, as we've defined, is actually a more Christ-like approach to life.
To life. Because think about it, by accepting yourself fully, warts and all, you'll be able to
better be your authentic self. And if you see yourself as a child of God that acceptance frees
up so much emotional energy, then you no longer have to play the exhausting game of asking what's
wrong with me, just because you can't forgive and forget. You realize that you're a human being,
and in this scenario, crafted by God with a full range of emotions and experiences,
and those things happen. And all these things can eventually be for your good.
And the beauty of this acceptance is that it can actually lead you closer to an understanding of
God as a loving, caring, and compassionate entity who wants nothing more than for you to be happy.
And if you don't come from a Christian background, this idea is equally transformative, because the
moment you truly embrace who you are, every trial, every triumph, you lock in incredible potential
for good, because you actually have all those tools within you. You do. The beauty of you is
within you. And then life becomes this opportunity for you to self-confront and grow. So the more
that the more of these experiences you have and you learn from them through this process of differentiation,
then the better you become because you are the only version of you.
So having been through hard times is not a life sentence, it's an education.
So the more you've struggled, truthfully, the deeper your capacity is for joy and love.
How ironic is that?
That's this power of polarity. The concept that life spectrum includes is both dark and light,
sorrow and joy, pain and pleasure. Nobody can fully comprehend another person's life journey,
but I promise you that surviving tough times equips you to feel more, love more, appreciate
life in its fullest sense. So here's what I almost want to say. Cue the music. Bring in my soapbox
and let me put on a wig because I would love to feel the wind blowing through my hair. So I kind
of need hair. Dug on it. Okay. But honestly, I can stand before you not just as a therapist,
but as a living testament to this truth. That's why I am so passionate about helping everybody,
whether you're struggling with emotional immaturity, whether you're the pathological
kind person, recognizing that you are both on these parallel journeys, journeys that
lead not to a dead end, but to a life filled with a greater depth of love and gratitude.
Okay, so let me catch my breath. So what a journey we've been on today. I mean,
we started by diving into the nuanced differences between narcissism and emotional immaturity,
and just reminding ourselves that this true narcissistic personality disorder is rare,
but emotional immaturity is something we all grapple with at some point. And then we hit on
the fact that taking accountability, how important is that for our actions, for our lives? And then
I get to introduce the calm, confident energy vibe, this middle ground between being a doormat
and being confrontational. And then this state allows us to approach life with emotional maturity,
and it helps us differentiate our thoughts from our emotions. And that is such an essential skill
for healthier relationships. And then talking about the transformative power of mindfulness,
meditation, make them your best friends, because these practices are not just these
hippie feel-good activities. They have a profound impact on your central nervous system and play,
a very critical role in helping you show up as your best self. And then, oh, my favorite thing,
digging into acceptance as outlined through acceptance and commitment therapy.
So then contrasting that with the societal or even biblical views of forgiveness,
and that acceptance, I really believe, is a more compassionate and realistic approach,
especially when we're dealing with emotional scars that don't just easily fade away.
And then the experiences, they're not roadblocks, they're stepping stones.
Your struggles are shaping you into a person of deep feeling and compassion and extraordinary resilience.
So in short, if you've listened this far and you're here listening and you're on this journey,
you're becoming a pretty incredible human being, not in spite of what you've been through, but because of what you've been through.
I went on the virtual couch last week. I had a good friend, Rachel Nielsen, on from 3in30 Podcasts for Moms.
And I've been on her podcast a couple of times. She always has three takeaways.
And I have not done three takeaways in my podcast.
And so just in her honor, I thought about these action steps.
So first, do a little check-in. Maybe I will call it a self-audit for emotional accountability.
Take a few moments at the end of the day, and then review your interactions
and your emotional states. Did you find yourself reacting in ways that were emotionally immature?
And all of this is coming under the place of grace and acceptance.
Did you operate from a place of calm, confident energy?
And note these instances down in a journal. Reflect on what triggered certain actions.
And over time, you'll just start to be more aware of your emotional patterns and how to improve upon them.
Maybe action step two, yeah, it's mindfulness.
Start small, dedicate five or 10 minutes each day to a practice of mindfulness or meditation.
And you can do this by simply focusing on your breath or do a quick body scan to check in with yourself or find an app.
I really am a big fan of those. Or if you have a watch that will give you haptics
or that will help you breathe in or out, whatever you need to do.
But the idea of just practicing, continue to be present and create a habit out of it.
And this will improve your ability to stay present in difficult situations. I guarantee it will.
And then you are going to come from a place of more emotional clarity.
And then practice acceptance.
Sometimes maybe it's important to start to learn how to have a pause.
The next time you find yourself in a challenging emotional situation,
maybe a confrontation or an awkward interaction, practice the pause.
Instead of reacting immediately, just take a step back, take a breath,
and allow yourself to simply accept what you're feeling in the moment. Are you angry?
Are you anxious? So instead of pushing these emotions away by trying to take control some way,
acknowledge them, accept them, they're there, then decide how you're gonna respond.
Because that gives you the space to act from a place of acceptance rather than emotional reactivity.
So thank you for joining me today on hopefully what is maybe a little bit of a transformative journey.
Because I believe that everybody listening, again, especially if you're still listening right now,
that is a pretty incredible opportunity for growth and happiness, you are not alone on this path.
And I cannot wait to, we'll dig in more. Send me your questions, send me your examples,
and we'll talk about this next time.
Well, we won't talk about this exact same thing. We've got another recording planned,
but we'll talk about it again down the road on Waking Up to Narcissism.
Have a great week, everybody.
Music.