WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.800 Music. 00:00:06.796 --> 00:00:09.486 Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 81 of Waking Up to Narcissism. 00:00:09.486 --> 00:00:12.126 I am your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, 00:00:12.603 --> 00:00:14.566 and host of the Virtual Couch podcast, 00:00:14.566 --> 00:00:16.636 and I am glad to have you here. 00:00:17.068 --> 00:00:23.297 And we are going to continue to unravel the complex threads of all things emotionally immature, 00:00:23.446 --> 00:00:29.203 all the way up there to narcissistic traits and tendencies and how these things negatively impact your relationship. 00:00:29.608 --> 00:00:36.326 And last week, we talked more about control, and I want to just hammer home as much as I can 00:00:36.326 --> 00:00:40.591 that you can have this love or control in an adult relationship, but not both. 00:00:40.706 --> 00:00:46.433 And that elicited a lot of good feedback. And there's a topic that I've wanted to talk about 00:00:46.566 --> 00:00:50.700 almost as if I would have set last week up as a part one, this could be a part two, 00:00:50.826 --> 00:00:53.275 but it's talking about coercive control. 00:00:53.386 --> 00:00:57.826 So a different way that control manifests itself in the relationship. 00:00:57.826 --> 00:00:59.198 So we're gonna talk about that today. 00:00:59.346 --> 00:01:02.466 Of course, if you are interested in a marriage workshop that I have, 00:01:02.466 --> 00:01:05.968 you can go find the link in the link tree, which is in the show notes, 00:01:06.266 --> 00:01:08.386 or you can go to my website, tonyoverbay.com. 00:01:08.386 --> 00:01:12.826 I would love it if you would sign up for my newsletter and you can submit any questions or comments 00:01:12.826 --> 00:01:18.586 or your own stories, your poems, everything to contact or info at tonyoverbay.com 00:01:18.586 --> 00:01:22.388 and I would love to have that if you're interested in being in the men's or women's Facebook group. 00:01:22.746 --> 00:01:25.539 So all of that you'll find in the show notes or you can just reach out to me. 00:01:25.946 --> 00:01:30.076 So before we get to the more serious matters that we're gonna talk about today, 00:01:30.226 --> 00:01:35.559 a friend of mine submitted what he thinks will be the first in waking up to narcissism history 00:01:35.666 --> 00:01:38.592 And that is, it's all around love or control. 00:01:38.986 --> 00:01:45.026 And he sent a haiku, a riddle, a knock-knock joke, and I think for the first time 00:01:45.026 --> 00:01:48.986 in waking up the narcissism history, a limerick, an all-around love and control. 00:01:48.986 --> 00:01:55.958 Now, I have reached back out to this individual and asked if this was done via artificial intelligence chat GPT, 00:01:56.066 --> 00:01:57.812 and they have not gotten back to me yet. 00:01:57.986 --> 00:02:00.126 So this might be my guess. 00:02:00.426 --> 00:02:02.007 Here we go. First, we'll start with the haiku. 00:02:02.386 --> 00:02:08.786 In love or control, one can thrive. The other steals. Choose heart. soul. 00:02:08.165 --> 00:02:13.080 Next up is the riddle. What can flourish when let free, but withers when tightly gripped? 00:02:13.584 --> 00:02:17.935 In hands that hold it tightly, it's cherished. In chains, it's stripped. What am I? 00:02:18.850 --> 00:02:23.676 And so I believe that is love. So that one is actually very beautiful. I really enjoy that. 00:02:23.811 --> 00:02:30.815 And next is the knock-knock joke. Knock-knock. Who's there? Olive. Olive who? Olive freely, 00:02:30.815 --> 00:02:35.535 not under control, for that's where love truly unfolds. So Olive, or I'll live. 00:02:35.757 --> 00:02:40.175 And last but not least, the limerick. He said, wait, there's more. Here's a limerick. 00:02:40.339 --> 00:02:45.655 In a bond where one tightly controls, love like a bloom never fully unfolds, 00:02:45.902 --> 00:02:49.615 but when hearts are set free, they can dance, they can be in a love where true 00:02:49.615 --> 00:02:59.495 trust takes hold. Either the person, my friend, has all of a sudden become incredibly more creative, or I believe they may have plugged some things into 00:02:59.495 --> 00:03:03.575 into chat GPT. But regardless, I appreciate that because I'm bringing a 00:03:03.862 --> 00:03:06.625 little bit of levity there before we get to the heavier subject today. 00:03:07.855 --> 00:03:15.895 So maybe by way of a little bit of a transition, I do want to talk about some, well, I love movies. I really do. 00:03:16.195 --> 00:03:18.121 I enjoy ones that are based off of true events or based off of a true story. 00:03:18.815 --> 00:03:23.415 But we went to a movie last night, actually the new Mission Impossible movie, which was wonderful. 00:03:23.595 --> 00:03:26.935 But there were a couple of the previews that talked about upcoming movies that were based 00:03:26.935 --> 00:03:28.855 on a true story or based on real events. 00:03:28.855 --> 00:03:33.655 And it does leave me often wondering if the true part, it could be as little as, okay, 00:03:33.655 --> 00:03:39.315 they both wore, they both like to wear red shirts. So we've got that part down and now we can take creative license. 00:03:39.315 --> 00:03:43.616 So I hope that that's not what a based off of a true story movie really is. 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:47.755 But let me share a narrative with you that is, this is absolutely based off of a true 00:03:47.755 --> 00:03:49.710 story, but there's more. 00:03:49.895 --> 00:03:54.675 Let me talk a little bit about technology. I've made the jokes today about artificial intelligence, which that was part of why I. 00:03:55.157 --> 00:03:59.875 I put those riddles and rhymes and limericks and the haikus and jokes that I think that my friend 00:03:59.875 --> 00:04:01.962 did create through artificial intelligence. 00:04:02.155 --> 00:04:07.795 But if you are afraid of AI, and I am not talking about 76ers legendary point guard 00:04:07.795 --> 00:04:13.323 Allen Iverson, I'm talking about artificial intelligence, and the tool can really be used for your good, 00:04:13.675 --> 00:04:15.160 and here's an example of how. 00:04:15.555 --> 00:04:20.735 So I had three emails that were very similar. They were talking in essence about this coercive control, 00:04:20.735 --> 00:04:22.136 this concept that we're gonna talk about today. 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.575 And they were narratives where there were two of them, where the man was more emotionally immature, 00:04:26.575 --> 00:04:28.600 when the woman was more emotionally immature. 00:04:28.695 --> 00:04:32.930 So what I did was I took these three similar stories, again, centered around coercive control, 00:04:33.254 --> 00:04:37.062 and I fed them into ChatGPT, and then I asked it to take the three stories, 00:04:37.415 --> 00:04:42.135 combine them into one, change the names and some of the details to provide this new narrative, 00:04:42.135 --> 00:04:44.415 and it did an amazing job, which is funny to me. 00:04:44.415 --> 00:04:48.295 I always reply back to the artificial intelligence because I hope that someday, 00:04:48.486 --> 00:04:53.615 if the robots do occupy a significant place of power society, they will at least think, that guy was pretty nice. 00:04:53.615 --> 00:04:58.956 So I told Chad at GPT that they did a fantastic job combining these three narratives into one, and they always say thank you. 00:04:59.163 --> 00:05:01.503 And that's your technology moment for the day. 00:05:01.954 --> 00:05:05.870 But here goes, I want to tell a narrative and I think this will ease into what we're going to talk about today. 00:05:06.572 --> 00:05:09.218 So, meet Jenna and Mark, a seemingly typical married couple. 00:05:09.795 --> 00:05:14.284 However, as we delve deeper into their daily lives, a more unsettling reality surfaces. 00:05:14.284 --> 00:05:18.689 Mark, charming and charismatic, he harbors a side of him that is far less appealing. 00:05:18.914 --> 00:05:24.936 He's a practitioner of this coercive control, a type of abuse that remains largely invisible to onlookers. 00:05:25.341 --> 00:05:28.897 So, pattern one that we're going to talk about today, I call the stripping of autonomy. 00:05:29.356 --> 00:05:33.335 So he made sure that Jenna quit her job, claiming that he would be the sole provider, 00:05:33.404 --> 00:05:37.431 that he would be the protector. Jenna, who was initially flattered, soon realized the implications, 00:05:37.891 --> 00:05:41.573 because Mark ended up dictating her daily schedule, her friendships, even her hobbies. 00:05:42.086 --> 00:05:46.764 So her autonomy began to slowly but surely evaporate. And it was like that she was a 00:05:47.028 --> 00:05:52.204 supporting character in her own life story, that her decisions slowly became not her own. Even when 00:05:52.204 --> 00:05:55.964 she tried to mention these things to Mark, she was quickly told that, well, that isn't what you 00:05:55.964 --> 00:05:59.199 you really want, or just trust me, I can take care of this. 00:05:59.595 --> 00:06:03.034 And then attempts to reclaim her autonomy were met with hostility. 00:06:03.324 --> 00:06:06.437 And eventually she was dismissed as ungrateful toward Mark. 00:06:06.797 --> 00:06:11.684 And for all the sacrifices that he had done, to the point where she started to then have that stripping 00:06:11.684 --> 00:06:17.312 of the autonomy, where she started to feel like maybe it is her, that maybe she's not as grateful as she should be. 00:06:17.564 --> 00:06:22.326 So which leads into pattern two, which is the manipulation of intimacy and sex. 00:06:22.524 --> 00:06:26.035 So Mark began to slowly control their intimate life as well. 00:06:26.324 --> 00:06:30.878 His demands reached all the way into the bedroom and they became increasingly explicit 00:06:31.004 --> 00:06:33.588 and beginning to cross boundaries that Jenna wasn't comfortable with. 00:06:33.764 --> 00:06:37.405 But every time that Jenna expressed her discomfort, she was told that she was overreacting. 00:06:37.764 --> 00:06:41.604 Or that she needed to loosen up, that the blame was on her and it wasn't on him. 00:06:41.604 --> 00:06:46.785 If he tried to have conversations around sex and intimacy, then he would go into more of a victim mindset and say, 00:06:47.082 --> 00:06:49.216 no, okay, it doesn't matter, I won't ever ask for anything again. 00:06:49.564 --> 00:06:57.064 Pattern three that we often see in the world, of course, control I call the technological leash. So Mark then insisted initially on having all 00:06:57.318 --> 00:07:01.744 of Jenna's passwords for her safety, he would say, that he installed a home security 00:07:01.744 --> 00:07:06.084 system that seemed to surveil her more than it protected them. She began to feel like 00:07:06.084 --> 00:07:10.204 a prisoner in her own home, and any attempt to question his actions was met with scoffs 00:07:10.204 --> 00:07:15.544 and comments about her being paranoid. And then pattern four, the regulated health and 00:07:15.544 --> 00:07:20.664 body. So Mark began, and this was done initially by suggestion or just trying to have some 00:07:20.664 --> 00:07:25.524 conversations but began regulating Jenna's diet and her sleep schedule. He ended up deciding 00:07:25.524 --> 00:07:30.024 what she ate and when she slept and what she wore and if Jenna defied his recommendations 00:07:30.266 --> 00:07:34.784 – I'd use that in air quotes – Mark accused her of not caring about her health 00:07:34.784 --> 00:07:39.682 or her appearance or him. So, despite Jenna's pleas that she didn't feel comfortable with. 00:07:40.064 --> 00:07:43.744 This level of control, Mark brushed her off because he was asserting that he did know 00:07:43.744 --> 00:07:47.824 what was best for her and isn't that what she wanted was to eat healthier and to be 00:07:47.824 --> 00:07:52.864 able to look better. But again, those were determined by Mark. Pattern 5, we have 00:07:52.864 --> 00:07:54.986 this shifting of financial power as well. 00:07:55.985 --> 00:07:59.995 Slowly took control of all the finances, claiming that he was better at managing the money. 00:08:00.667 --> 00:08:04.610 And Jenna found herself needing to ask for money, even for basic necessities. 00:08:04.934 --> 00:08:07.949 So when she suggested getting a job to regain some financial independence, 00:08:08.508 --> 00:08:12.875 Mark rebuffed her. He said that her role was to care for the home, not to worry about money, 00:08:13.072 --> 00:08:16.592 that that was his job, and that if she just needed more, she just needed to ask him. 00:08:16.727 --> 00:08:21.675 Even though she felt like if she even hesitated or brought things up, then she would get grilled 00:08:21.675 --> 00:08:25.215 and told that, well, that sounded like she wasn't being appreciative or that she was 00:08:25.215 --> 00:08:29.775 being selfish. And then that sixth pattern, of course, of control would be the emotional 00:08:29.969 --> 00:08:34.895 roulette. So Mark's mood dictated the atmosphere at home. And Jenna had to tiptoe around him, 00:08:34.895 --> 00:08:39.007 always wary of triggering a negative reaction. On good days, Mark was the caring husband. 00:08:39.275 --> 00:08:43.175 But on bad days, Jenna found herself the target of his frustrations. And she felt like she 00:08:43.175 --> 00:08:48.295 was walking on eggshells, with her peace of mind just basically hinging on his ever-fluctuating, 00:08:48.838 --> 00:08:53.455 And what can be incredibly difficult about that is that when he would get really angry and frustrated, 00:08:53.834 --> 00:08:57.295 then he would at times apologize and say, I won't ever do it again. 00:08:57.732 --> 00:09:00.535 And this is where I like to say that I do believe in those moments. 00:09:00.535 --> 00:09:06.255 A lot of times the emotionally, more emotionally immature person absolutely means that they do not like the way that that feels either. 00:09:06.716 --> 00:09:11.015 So to get rid of that discomfort, they apologize and they will never do it again until they do it again. 00:09:11.235 --> 00:09:14.935 Instead of apologizing, getting out of that discomfort and then working on themselves, 00:09:14.935 --> 00:09:19.175 Whether it's the two of them going to couples counseling or are in the scenario 00:09:19.175 --> 00:09:25.095 mark, going to individual counseling would probably even be better at that point, as long as he's willing to take criticism or feedback or he's willing 00:09:25.095 --> 00:09:25.945 to self-confront. 00:09:26.575 --> 00:09:32.185 And is he starting a meditation practice? Or is he starting to really try to look at his wife with curiosity and not just saying, 00:09:32.185 --> 00:09:35.235 but I know, but I know better. And she's not even being honest with herself. 00:09:36.010 --> 00:09:39.345 So throughout this process, Jenna tried to voice her concerns. 00:09:39.345 --> 00:09:42.545 She tried to start conversations about the subtle manipulation or the loss of 00:09:42.545 --> 00:09:47.145 control. But every time she was gaslit, she was made to believe that she was 00:09:47.145 --> 00:09:50.025 imagining things or that she was ungrateful. 00:09:50.089 --> 00:09:54.785 And as time passed, Jenna found herself tolerating his behavior, but unfortunately 00:09:54.785 --> 00:09:58.485 doing what so many people do of just hoping things would eventually improve. But hope 00:09:58.485 --> 00:10:02.885 started to fade as she continued to feel unheard, unseen, and then just crushed under the weight 00:10:02.885 --> 00:10:09.625 of his coercive control. And that is, thank you chat GPT, the unspoken reality of so many 00:10:09.625 --> 00:10:13.565 of the victims of coercive control. Because it's not about physical violence or even 00:10:13.565 --> 00:10:18.950 overt, blatant abuse. It's about this gradual, just relentless erosion of self-worth, of 00:10:19.165 --> 00:10:24.082 autonomy, of identity. So today I want to talk more about those patterns that I mentioned, 00:10:24.585 --> 00:10:28.505 But just in general, when you think about, now you can see that this topic of course 00:10:28.505 --> 00:10:33.696 of control is so important to discuss because when you think about abuse in a relationship 00:10:33.741 --> 00:10:38.368 or even when you think about what can make somebody leave a relationship, it can be pretty 00:10:38.413 --> 00:10:40.655 easy to spot when it is the physical abuse. 00:10:41.425 --> 00:10:44.865 And then if somebody leaves because, I mean, at some point they literally have a black 00:10:44.865 --> 00:10:49.009 eye or bruises or a broken arm and they finally just say, man, it's about time you got out. 00:10:49.945 --> 00:10:53.805 So what we don't often think about, so again, it's easy to think about when you see or hear 00:10:53.805 --> 00:10:56.922 about these explosive arguments or heated disagreements that are turned physical. 00:10:57.444 --> 00:11:02.414 Or you may overhear just this constant barrage of demeaning words. I've had people at times where 00:11:02.414 --> 00:11:06.174 they will talk about going on vacation with a couple and then thinking that they had thought 00:11:06.174 --> 00:11:10.254 this couple was just had everything figured out and then they get out there and they're with them 00:11:10.254 --> 00:11:13.738 for an extended period of time and then they start to hear things like a physical, just a 00:11:13.934 --> 00:11:18.734 physical barrage, whether it's from the husband or the wife or both. I just had somebody, another 00:11:18.734 --> 00:11:23.694 person very close to me talk about taking on a new job where they were in the presence of a couple. 00:11:24.172 --> 00:11:28.494 That when this person was talking one-on-one with each person in the relationship, they were so nice. 00:11:28.494 --> 00:11:32.174 But when you got the two of them together, they just bickered. And it was almost as if that was 00:11:32.174 --> 00:11:37.999 the air they breathed in the relationship together. So that can be just so difficult to be 00:11:38.062 --> 00:11:42.414 in a relationship like that because people don't necessarily see it from the outside. 00:11:42.414 --> 00:11:45.774 And even when they start to have time and they do start to interact with people more, 00:11:45.774 --> 00:11:50.974 and they do see those signs of this coercive control or this emotional abuse, then it's 00:11:50.974 --> 00:11:55.014 really difficult to try to do something about it because you start to feel crazy 00:11:55.014 --> 00:11:58.374 yourself, because you start to think, well, maybe it isn't as bad, or maybe I'm 00:11:58.374 --> 00:12:02.071 only seeing one side of things and I'm not seeing it the right way. It's 00:12:02.334 --> 00:12:05.414 overlooked. It's hidden in the shadows of the day-to-day lives. And this form of 00:12:05.414 --> 00:12:12.254 abuse, because it doesn't leave the visible scars, I think it can actually be more destructive because it can happen over longer periods of time. 00:12:12.595 --> 00:12:21.854 Imagine living in a house that is starting to sink into the ground, but But it's not sinking all at once. It's a slow, steady sinking. It's so gradual that you barely 00:12:21.854 --> 00:12:26.567 notice it at all. You wake up in the morning and you start to grab a bowl of cereal, and 00:12:26.854 --> 00:12:30.694 it just tilts a little bit. You see the milk swishing just a little bit. Or your favorite 00:12:30.694 --> 00:12:35.614 family picture, it just hangs at a slight angle. And the kitchen table starts to wobble 00:12:35.614 --> 00:12:39.818 just a little bit. And it's disconcerting, but you make little adjustments. You keep. 00:12:40.268 --> 00:12:43.894 Up a brave face and life goes on. You put a little piece of cardboard under the table 00:12:43.894 --> 00:12:47.394 you think that, well, now it isn't so bad until then, maybe it starts to get a 00:12:47.394 --> 00:12:51.094 little bit worse after a long period of time, but after all the walls are still 00:12:51.094 --> 00:12:54.915 standing or you can still, you can still get the bowl out and have breakfast. 00:12:55.194 --> 00:12:57.255 It just, it just starts to seem a little off. 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:03.017 But then one day, you finally find that you're basically walking uphill to get from the living room to the bedroom. 00:13:03.670 --> 00:13:07.590 And you can't open the front door without a forceful shove, and your cherished cereal 00:13:07.590 --> 00:13:09.354 bowl keeps sliding off the kitchen table. 00:13:10.156 --> 00:13:13.693 And the odd thing is that to the outside world, your house still looks perfectly fine. 00:13:14.390 --> 00:13:17.528 But inside, everything is off balance, because you're off balance. 00:13:18.030 --> 00:13:21.650 And the ground beneath your feet starts to shift, and you start to just leave interactions 00:13:21.650 --> 00:13:25.612 just feeling uncertain and disoriented, which is a phrase that I've heard often. 00:13:26.270 --> 00:13:29.952 And it can make you start to feel alone, even within your relationship. 00:13:30.770 --> 00:13:35.310 So this is the reality for victims of coercive control, because it's this slow erosion of 00:13:35.310 --> 00:13:41.240 autonomy of self-esteem and a personal space that then leaves the victims on shaky ground. 00:13:41.582 --> 00:13:45.129 Not quite sure what's even happened, but especially unsure of how to fix it. 00:13:45.910 --> 00:13:49.310 So we're going to dig a little bit deeper into these six types of coercive control. 00:13:49.310 --> 00:13:54.110 We're going to expose them for hopefully what they truly are as forms of control and manipulation, 00:13:54.110 --> 00:13:57.750 and hopefully equip you with the tools to recognize and then address it. 00:13:58.510 --> 00:14:04.115 And I want to just bring great awareness to the whole reason that this podcast exists 00:14:04.490 --> 00:14:06.600 is not trying to blame others. 00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:10.813 Because when I go with my pillar one of my four pillars of a connected conversation, 00:14:10.970 --> 00:14:16.934 that there is this assumption of good intentions in someone's behavior, or, and this is, we'll call it 1B, 00:14:17.310 --> 00:14:20.256 or there is a reason why that person is showing up the way they are. 00:14:20.390 --> 00:14:22.570 There's a reason why that person behaves the way they do. 00:14:22.910 --> 00:14:25.610 There's a reason why that person attempts to love the way that they do, 00:14:25.610 --> 00:14:28.142 and there's a reason why that person controls the way that they do. 00:14:28.592 --> 00:14:33.805 And so often, most often it is because that's how they saw relationships modeled. 00:14:34.561 --> 00:14:41.430 That this emotional immature reaction of a partner is at its core, a deep, deep insecurity. 00:14:41.790 --> 00:14:44.706 That this person does not know how to sit with that discomfort at all. 00:14:45.050 --> 00:14:49.830 So in order to make sure that they can keep someone in their lives, they need to control them. 00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:54.438 And control them in a way that will, again, zap the autonomy out of their partner. 00:14:54.550 --> 00:14:58.130 But to them, that's why when they see that their partner may be really hurting, 00:14:58.130 --> 00:15:02.513 they can back off, I won't do it again. Because now I may lose them because they're angry. 00:15:02.730 --> 00:15:07.150 So then I let go of the reins. But then as the day goes on and time goes on 00:15:07.150 --> 00:15:10.111 and we go back to our normal, regularly scheduled programming, 00:15:10.210 --> 00:15:13.775 then here comes that control back in there because that person isn't there doing their own work. 00:15:13.930 --> 00:15:18.910 They're not trying to self-confront. And even when they do, and this is from my seat as a marriage therapist, 00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:22.507 when I'm talking about trying to help a couple become too interdependent. 00:15:23.092 --> 00:15:30.240 Differentiated people, meaning where one person ends and the other begins, not codependent, not in mesh, not two halves make a whole. As, 00:15:30.782 --> 00:15:38.742 wonderful as that sounds, we need two wholes coming together to then make a third, a third entity of two people with this amazing 00:15:38.742 --> 00:15:45.222 shared experiences, bringing all of our life experience into the situation. So now we are just, I can't wait to hear what my 00:15:45.222 --> 00:15:51.142 spouse's experience of life is, and then to share mine. But neither of us are trying to control the other person, put the other 00:15:51.142 --> 00:15:55.142 person down or change the other person's narrative. And I really believe that this 00:15:55.142 --> 00:15:58.982 is not something that people just have in their factory default settings because we 00:15:58.982 --> 00:16:02.981 didn't see that in our childhood. We didn't see our parents modeling that type of behavior. 00:16:03.542 --> 00:16:08.902 So it feels like the very thing that sounds so counterintuitive that it's the cliche 00:16:08.902 --> 00:16:12.982 that to love someone, you must let them go. But it really is to love someone, you need 00:16:12.982 --> 00:16:16.854 to let them be and let them become. And you need to actually encourage that. You need 00:16:17.142 --> 00:16:21.542 to be excited about that because as that happens and you start to realize that also allows 00:16:21.542 --> 00:16:27.722 me the autonomy to be and think and feel the way that I can and then that person may still 00:16:27.722 --> 00:16:33.292 be there right beside you and now we can have more real vulnerable conversations. You can 00:16:33.622 --> 00:16:39.222 open up more and it isn't about control that you start to recognize what love truly can 00:16:39.222 --> 00:16:44.445 be and what it is and it can just be mind-blowing. Anyway, I could talk about this ad nauseum 00:16:44.536 --> 00:16:49.562 just over and over again. But let's get to these things that I mentioned in that narrative, 00:16:49.562 --> 00:16:52.922 the narrative of Mark and Jen. I talked about stripping of autonomy. I talked about the 00:16:52.922 --> 00:16:58.362 manipulation of intimacy and sex, the technological leash, regulated health and body, the shifting of 00:16:58.362 --> 00:17:02.801 financial power, and then this emotional roulette. So let me dig into those a little bit deeper. 00:17:03.161 --> 00:17:09.722 First up is that stripping of autonomy. So this is often disguised as romantic involvement or 00:17:09.722 --> 00:17:15.362 concern, this can be part of that, the love bombing phase. That this pattern can, it includes 00:17:15.362 --> 00:17:20.356 just what can seem like just benign behavior, but they start to slowly chip away at the. 00:17:20.995 --> 00:17:25.942 Victim's autonomy. So the perpetrator might discourage the victim from working or pursuing 00:17:25.942 --> 00:17:29.922 their interests, restrict their movement, exert control over mundane life choices like 00:17:29.979 --> 00:17:34.442 their diet or their daily schedule. That that person, the person that is exerting the control 00:17:34.442 --> 00:17:39.122 may have just an opinion, it might be just a low-key opinion as the kids say, about everything 00:17:39.122 --> 00:17:44.491 that they're doing. Because the intent behind this pattern of coercive control is it's multifaceted. 00:17:45.282 --> 00:17:48.682 Because in its simplest form, the individual seeking control is attempting to create a 00:17:48.682 --> 00:17:51.413 a reality where the victim is entirely dependent on them. 00:17:52.035 --> 00:17:55.572 That dependence can be financial, it can be emotional, it can be even social. 00:17:56.086 --> 00:18:00.524 But the end goal is always the same, to create a dynamic where the victim feels they cannot 00:18:00.524 --> 00:18:05.601 function independently and they must rely on the perpetrator. So, by discouraging the victim from 00:18:05.884 --> 00:18:10.858 working, the abuser seeks to create financial dependence. If the victim is able to not earn 00:18:11.004 --> 00:18:14.441 their own income, then they're less likely to leave, having fewer resources to support 00:18:14.486 --> 00:18:19.164 themselves independently. So, when the victim's interests and hobbies are belittled and undermined, 00:18:19.164 --> 00:18:22.336 And it isolates them, often severing their connections with friends or social groups. 00:18:23.084 --> 00:18:27.269 And that isolation then further strengthens the abuser's control, because now the victim's 00:18:27.484 --> 00:18:29.430 support system is progressively eroded. 00:18:30.204 --> 00:18:34.724 And so when you start controlling the victim's movement and daily schedule, then that can 00:18:34.724 --> 00:18:36.002 even be more oppressive. 00:18:36.324 --> 00:18:40.444 Because when you're dictating when they can go out, who they see, when they eat, when 00:18:40.444 --> 00:18:44.244 they can sleep, then the abuser reduces the victim's life to a pretty narrow, tightly 00:18:44.244 --> 00:18:45.265 controlled existence. 00:18:45.964 --> 00:18:49.264 And this is one of those things or situations where I think the people that are listening 00:18:49.264 --> 00:18:56.104 to Waking Up to Narcissism can maybe understand or have seen or are in these types of relationships. 00:18:56.104 --> 00:18:59.224 And because I think this is one where if you're hearing this and you have not been in this 00:18:59.224 --> 00:19:03.144 type of a relationship or you're not familiar with it, then it's so easy to say, well, the 00:19:03.144 --> 00:19:04.864 person just needs to do something different. 00:19:04.962 --> 00:19:06.249 They just need to express themselves. 00:19:06.864 --> 00:19:12.254 But then to the population that are listening to this podcast, it's not that easy, unfortunately. 00:19:12.504 --> 00:19:17.538 So this level of control over time just leads to a sense of learned helplessness in the victim. 00:19:18.224 --> 00:19:21.744 And so they start to feel like they're almost incapable of making even the most basic decisions 00:19:21.744 --> 00:19:23.804 without their abuser's input or approval. 00:19:24.624 --> 00:19:28.864 And then additionally, the abuser might maintain a facade of care and concern while enforcing 00:19:28.864 --> 00:19:33.384 these restrictions. And that makes the victim question whether they really are, am I being abused? 00:19:33.994 --> 00:19:38.081 Or is my partner, maybe they're being a little overprotective, or maybe they just care a lot. 00:19:38.824 --> 00:19:42.844 And this ambiguity can make it even harder for the victim to recognize the control for 00:19:42.844 --> 00:19:47.191 what it is, a manipulative tactic to diminish their independence and their autonomy. 00:19:48.024 --> 00:19:52.184 So steadily, by eroding the victim's autonomy in these ways, the abuser ensures that the 00:19:52.413 --> 00:19:58.744 victim feels trapped and reliant upon them, and often too intimidated or unsure to seek help. 00:19:58.744 --> 00:20:02.304 So the result is this powerful form of control that then keeps the victim tethered to the 00:20:02.304 --> 00:20:08.104 abuser, and then the abuser in this position of power, which then only just strengthens 00:20:08.104 --> 00:20:16.064 over time. So next up, we have pattern two, which is the manipulation of intimacy and 00:20:16.064 --> 00:20:21.344 sex, which can be a difficult thing to talk about, but is a very common form of coercive 00:20:21.344 --> 00:20:27.344 control. So in this form, the perpetrator then manipulates the intimate aspects of the 00:20:27.344 --> 00:20:32.344 relationship. And this is done by a lot of crossing of personal boundaries and turning 00:20:32.344 --> 00:20:35.858 sexual interactions into means of exercising this power or control. 00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:44.788 And underlying this form of control is, again, it's this need of dominance or a sense of entitlement to, in this case, the victim's body. 00:20:44.869 --> 00:20:51.030 So by dictating the terms of their intimate life, then the abuser reinforces their power and control in the relationship. 00:20:51.030 --> 00:20:55.270 So this could manifest in a lot of different ways, making demands or suggestions regarding 00:20:55.270 --> 00:20:59.910 the victim's appearance, or insisting on certain sexual acts that the victim isn't 00:20:59.910 --> 00:21:05.710 comfortable with, or using compliments and praise as a tool to manipulate the person into compliance. 00:21:05.710 --> 00:21:09.590 And you can see where there can start to be such a gray area here, because people like 00:21:09.733 --> 00:21:12.209 to be complimented, they like to hear nice things. 00:21:12.758 --> 00:21:17.630 But if this is a conversation or a situation where somebody compliments, so that then they 00:21:17.630 --> 00:21:22.630 can get something from that. So if they say, man, you look amazing, and did I tell you you look amazing? 00:21:23.012 --> 00:21:26.150 And I can't believe that you didn't acknowledge the fact that I've been pointing out how much 00:21:26.150 --> 00:21:27.790 I think that you look great. 00:21:27.790 --> 00:21:32.270 And as if there was this, there's a cost to that, or there's a, there's something that 00:21:32.270 --> 00:21:37.630 needs to be exchanged, or there's a reciprocal nature of if I compliment you, then now you 00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:39.216 obviously owe me something. 00:21:39.830 --> 00:21:45.190 So the, but you see it a lot though, just as an example where the, the abuser might 00:21:45.190 --> 00:21:49.750 insist on certain types of clothing, or make critical remarks about the victim's body, 00:21:49.750 --> 00:21:54.710 which can lower their self-esteem and make them more susceptible to control, and so when 00:21:54.710 --> 00:21:58.790 it comes to this realm of sexual intimacy that can be such an important and private 00:21:58.790 --> 00:22:04.206 part of a relationship, the abuser might insist on practices that then the victim finds uncomfortable 00:22:04.260 --> 00:22:04.989 or degrading. 00:22:05.630 --> 00:22:11.070 So they might use guilt and blame or shame to coerce the victim into giving in or acquiescing 00:22:11.070 --> 00:22:16.910 to their demands and insisting that their requests are normal, or that the victim is 00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:19.411 being prudish or overreacting or too sensitive. 00:22:20.050 --> 00:22:24.300 Because the ultimate goal of this pattern, of course, of control is to assert some sort of 00:22:24.300 --> 00:22:28.780 dominance in the most personal and intimate aspects of the victim's life. And then again, 00:22:28.780 --> 00:22:33.580 if we're talking about isolation and secrecy and privacy, this is an area where a lot of people, 00:22:33.580 --> 00:22:38.300 if we're going with the woman is the victim in this scenario, that she doesn't have maybe a lot, 00:22:38.766 --> 00:22:42.754 of people that she talks about these things because they are part of her intimate or private life. 00:22:43.375 --> 00:22:47.900 And then it seeks to turn sexuality, which is a domain that is built off of. 00:22:49.100 --> 00:22:54.620 Respect, consent, enjoyment, into another avenue of control. And then by making the victim feel 00:22:54.943 --> 00:23:01.433 that their boundaries and comfort are insignificant or wrong more often than not, then the abuser just 00:23:01.604 --> 00:23:06.700 slowly but surely chips away at their confidence and their autonomy, and it leaves them feeling 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:12.540 more vulnerable to further and further manipulation. So the abuser in this scenario also might disguise 00:23:12.540 --> 00:23:16.840 their actions as things like spicing up their relationship or, no, I just care about your 00:23:16.840 --> 00:23:21.058 appearance. I want you to look good for yourself. But then that kind of muddies the waters though 00:23:21.157 --> 00:23:25.700 and makes it more difficult for the victim to identify the abuse. So the victim might 00:23:25.700 --> 00:23:31.100 then start to feel ashamed and guilty and confused and doubting their own feelings and 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:34.700 perceptions about what they want, what they want to look like, how they want to dress, 00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:39.171 how they want to do their hair, what they just like to wear and who they like to be. 00:23:39.780 --> 00:23:43.915 So this form of gaslighting then it starts to amplify the control, making again the victim 00:23:44.060 --> 00:23:45.526 second guess their instincts. 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.020 And we want you to trust your gut. And again, both sides of the coin, this can happen with the female or the male being the 00:23:52.020 --> 00:23:53.395 abuser in this scenario. 00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:59.552 And so, but trusting your gut and because it's okay to have boundaries in your intimate life as well. 00:24:00.110 --> 00:24:06.460 Because in this manner, the abuser uses intimacy and sex as a tool to again, degrade or dominate 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:10.733 or control the victim, adding another layer to that web of coercive control. 00:24:11.615 --> 00:24:16.505 So let's move on to pattern three. This one's really fascinating. I spent the my first decade 00:24:16.505 --> 00:24:22.040 before becoming a therapist in the computer industry, which I recognize now is so long ago 00:24:22.463 --> 00:24:28.425 that when I like to think that I know things technological, the technology industry just 00:24:28.425 --> 00:24:33.465 changes at such a rapid rate that I know that this is another, again, another area that I know 00:24:33.465 --> 00:24:38.505 that I don't know what I don't know. But pattern three, of course, of control, as I like to call 00:24:38.505 --> 00:24:41.725 call it the technological leash. When I was trying to come up with some other 00:24:41.725 --> 00:24:45.245 names that I had the digital dictator down at this point as well. But in this 00:24:45.245 --> 00:24:48.485 form of control, the perpetrator uses technology as a tool to monitor, 00:24:48.485 --> 00:24:52.458 surveil, control the victim. So the underlying motive here is to exert 00:24:52.512 --> 00:24:55.357 control and maintain dominance by invading the victim's privacy and. 00:24:55.965 --> 00:25:02.265 Limiting their freedom, quite frankly. And if you can start to see this pattern that we're going to see continually over and over in coercive 00:25:02.265 --> 00:25:13.005 control, is there can be this real subtle hint of, but there's some good here too because if you are on this, if somebody knows more about technology and they just don't 00:25:13.005 --> 00:25:17.165 know, I have cameras all around the house because I want to keep us safe. But then if they are 00:25:17.165 --> 00:25:21.752 saying, Hey, I noticed you left at four o'clock, where were you going? Or you, you didn't stop by 00:25:21.885 --> 00:25:26.685 for a little while until it was too late. Or I noticed that so-and-so was at the house today. 00:25:26.685 --> 00:25:30.365 What were they asking for? I've had so many examples of these. One recently of somebody 00:25:30.365 --> 00:25:32.365 somebody that was just... 00:25:31.501 --> 00:25:35.911 Doing the door-to-door sales knocking for, I don't know, pest control or what's that, 00:25:35.911 --> 00:25:40.311 solar or whatever it looks like. And then the husband in the scenario just gave the 00:25:40.311 --> 00:25:44.791 wife the third degree of saying, well, you talked to him for quite a while and I couldn't really 00:25:44.791 --> 00:25:49.751 hear well on the ring cam. And so I'm curious why. What were you, did you cover up the speaker on the 00:25:49.751 --> 00:25:54.520 ring cam? Because were you trying to hide something? And she was just answering the door 00:25:54.637 --> 00:25:59.183 and there was nothing nefarious about her talking to the person that rang the doorbell. 00:25:59.624 --> 00:26:05.800 So the digital dictator or the technology leash person, they start often very subtly. 00:26:05.935 --> 00:26:10.471 They might insist on having access to the victim's passwords and emails and social media accounts 00:26:10.580 --> 00:26:16.071 under the pretense of safety or trust. And let me just say, too, as I say, the victim and the 00:26:16.071 --> 00:26:21.191 abuser, it's starting to just sound very heavy, but I don't want to just simply replace it with 00:26:21.302 --> 00:26:25.533 Ken and Barbie or person A and person B. So I just want to acknowledge the fact that if that 00:26:25.831 --> 00:26:31.231 that starts to sound heavy, that's just for the context that we can say, again, the victim can be the male 00:26:31.231 --> 00:26:33.032 or the female, the abuser, the male or the female. 00:26:33.391 --> 00:26:36.957 So I'm gonna continue with those terms just to make sure that we're staying in the. 00:26:37.431 --> 00:26:41.751 It's clear of who I'm talking about when I'm talking about the coercive control. 00:26:41.751 --> 00:26:48.831 We go back to this person having the victim's emails and social accounts under this pretense of safety, 00:26:48.831 --> 00:26:54.151 digital safety even, and then gradually the demands might escalate into installing surveillance systems 00:26:54.151 --> 00:26:59.031 shared spaces or tracking devices on the victim's personal devices. The digital dictator may also 00:26:59.031 --> 00:27:03.271 then use technology to isolate the victim, such as controlling their access to the internet or 00:27:03.271 --> 00:27:07.351 their use of digital devices, all in the name of good. Maybe they might say things like, well, 00:27:07.351 --> 00:27:11.591 and I can actually pull from real examples of, well, we should shut down the internet for the 00:27:11.591 --> 00:27:13.902 kids sake at nine o'clock at night. 00:27:14.424 --> 00:27:20.594 And so then that includes us too, says the scenario was the husband, who then the wife, 00:27:21.041 --> 00:27:25.074 couldn't get on social media because then that was blocked at the router level, except for then he 00:27:25.074 --> 00:27:30.434 was able to get around it by he knew the master password. But another example might be, and these 00:27:30.434 --> 00:27:34.034 are all based on a true story, but the abuser may install surveillance cameras in the home. 00:27:34.674 --> 00:27:37.954 Sensibly for security, but then again, in reality to monitor the victim's movements 00:27:37.954 --> 00:27:42.514 or control their activities. They might insist on having access to the victim's personal accounts 00:27:42.514 --> 00:27:48.434 or devices justifying this invasion of privacy with excuses such as concern for their safety, 00:27:48.434 --> 00:27:52.274 or a need for transparency, or a desire to protect the victim from supposed online threats. 00:27:52.274 --> 00:27:58.114 Now, I will say in a healthy relationship, I am a huge fan of people knowing everybody's passwords, 00:27:58.114 --> 00:28:02.034 you can get into their email accounts, and that sort of thing. It even sounds funny to say get 00:28:02.034 --> 00:28:08.114 into, because I know that in my own personal relationships, if there isn't anything to hide, 00:28:08.274 --> 00:28:13.714 then why would anyone worry about someone having access to accounts? But it goes both ways. It's 00:28:13.714 --> 00:28:20.034 reciprocal. And so if the agreement is that both of you will have access to all of your passwords 00:28:20.034 --> 00:28:23.954 and accounts because there is some safety in there, heaven forbid if somebody pass away and 00:28:23.954 --> 00:28:28.834 you don't have access to bank accounts or sensitive information that is needed, then that would be 00:28:28.834 --> 00:28:34.434 something that would be necessary. The difficulty in all things emotionally immature is that it 00:28:34.434 --> 00:28:39.297 It just takes on this slightly different meaning or this slightly different way that it is done. 00:28:39.754 --> 00:28:43.204 Again, this is why the coercive control is such an important concept 00:28:43.394 --> 00:28:48.394 because it's done as a way to control the other person, 00:28:48.514 --> 00:28:53.074 that it isn't just this, hey, we have this mutually reciprocal open conversations 00:28:53.074 --> 00:28:54.295 around everything digital. 00:28:54.474 --> 00:28:58.940 It's, hey, I haven't given you my passwords, but I need your passwords. 00:28:59.355 --> 00:29:03.394 And then I'll get you your passwords later, or I'll give you that access 00:29:03.394 --> 00:29:07.634 the information that you need later, but I need yours right now because of some special 00:29:07.634 --> 00:29:08.942 situation or circumstance. 00:29:10.049 --> 00:29:13.389 But then by tracking the victim's movements, communications, online activity, then the 00:29:13.699 --> 00:29:17.332 abuser does over time create this environment of just constant surveillance where the victim's 00:29:17.499 --> 00:29:19.187 actions are monitored and controlled. 00:29:19.539 --> 00:29:23.579 And then the abuser can then use this information to continue to control, criticize, that's 00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:28.979 a huge part of this, and manipulate the victim, amplifying their feelings of fear and entrapment. 00:29:29.179 --> 00:29:32.659 And we've got three more of these coercive control patterns to go, so you can start to 00:29:32.659 --> 00:29:37.859 see how this can just feel heavy as there are these control measures on a lot of different 00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:42.819 sides or a lot of different areas of the relationship. And then any attempt by the victim to reclaim 00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:47.499 their privacy or question the abuser's actions are typically dismissed. Often this is where 00:29:47.499 --> 00:29:52.179 the person just does not answer. And if you are the pathologically kind person, then often 00:29:52.179 --> 00:29:56.999 it's difficult enough for you to bring up your questions or concerns around your digital 00:29:56.999 --> 00:30:01.419 privacy being invaded. And then if you are expressing that, then you may be told immediately, 00:30:01.419 --> 00:30:05.764 well, why, what do you have to hide? And then if you say things to the effect of, well, 00:30:06.151 --> 00:30:08.348 I don't feel like I have access to your accounts. 00:30:08.479 --> 00:30:10.797 Well, are you saying that you think that I'm doing something wrong? 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.519 So you can see where people just start to get in this pattern of just feeling 00:30:14.641 --> 00:30:16.630 like they're going crazy or gaslit. 00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:22.399 So at this point then, let's say that the pathologically kind or victim in this scenario is saying, 00:30:22.399 --> 00:30:24.390 well, I would like access to your accounts. 00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:28.279 Now the abuser might accuse the victim of being paranoid or overreacting, 00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:30.412 or maybe it's because you're hiding something. 00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:33.499 So they're gaslighting the victim into doubting their own perceptions, 00:30:33.499 --> 00:30:41.557 and then that further strengthens, abuser's control. So, in this way, the digital dictator, so to speak, transforms technology 00:30:41.859 --> 00:30:46.842 from a tool of convenience into this instrument of, I don't know, control and oppression. So. 00:30:47.427 --> 00:30:51.139 Then the victim is stripped of their privacy, their autonomy is undermined, and then they are 00:30:51.139 --> 00:30:55.619 made to feel as though they are under constant watch, which further reinforces this power 00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:57.509 imbalance in the abusive relationship. 00:30:58.266 --> 00:31:02.704 Let's do three more. We'll try to get through these quickly. The next one is the pattern four is, 00:31:03.118 --> 00:31:10.436 it's the person regulates the victim's health and body. And in this scenario, when I was talking 00:31:10.436 --> 00:31:15.748 about Mark and Jenna, Mark began regulating Jenna's diet and her sleep schedule. And he 00:31:15.956 --> 00:31:20.676 decided what she ate, when she slept, what she wore. If Jenna defied his recommendations, Mark 00:31:20.816 --> 00:31:23.956 then said, you don't care about your health or your appearance. I guess I care about you more 00:31:23.956 --> 00:31:30.196 than you do. So this regulated health and body pattern. So in this form of coercive control, 00:31:30.196 --> 00:31:35.236 the abuser then seeks to exert control over the victim's physical, in essence, all things 00:31:35.236 --> 00:31:39.766 physical. The perpetrator may control the victim's diet or sleep schedule, physical activities. 00:31:40.099 --> 00:31:44.596 Again, we mentioned earlier their appearance under the pretext or the concern that I just care about 00:31:44.596 --> 00:31:47.476 you. I care about your health and I care about your attractiveness because I want you to look 00:31:47.580 --> 00:31:53.716 good. The body, I was starting to refer to this as the body overseer in my notes. The body 00:31:53.716 --> 00:31:58.806 overseer then typically begins by suggesting alterations to their lifestyle, their appearance. 00:31:59.211 --> 00:32:02.996 Again, under the guise of this is for the victim's own good, they might present these 00:32:02.996 --> 00:32:07.076 suggestions as just advice, subtle advice, little recommendations, given the illusion 00:32:07.076 --> 00:32:10.653 that the victim has the choice. And here's the big thing about coercive control, 00:32:11.094 --> 00:32:13.876 that they have a choice to accept or reject these changes. 00:32:14.614 --> 00:32:22.464 But these suggestions are so often they're accompanied by subtle manipulations or guilt trips that are designed to pressure the victim into compliance. 00:32:23.004 --> 00:32:28.684 So that feeling that you do have a choice is a huge piece of the coercive control component altogether. 00:32:29.314 --> 00:32:36.224 And then as time passes, these suggestions evolve into directives or demands, and the abuser might dictate what the victim can and cannot eat. 00:32:36.664 --> 00:32:40.344 They set strict sleeping schedules. They impose stringent exercise routines. 00:32:40.344 --> 00:32:41.621 Hey, get to the gym today. 00:32:42.116 --> 00:32:49.552 They may also control the victim's wardrobe, criticizing their clothing choices, or insisting that they dress a certain way to truthfully please the abuser. 00:32:49.624 --> 00:32:56.624 But then that again is made into a situation that appears like the abuser just wants what's best for the victim. 00:32:56.624 --> 00:32:59.202 But there's no curiosity there, no questions about what do you want. 00:32:59.895 --> 00:33:07.412 Because that underlying goal of this body overseer is to control the victim's physical autonomy, and in doing so, here we are back to control. 00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:10.624 Controlling their sense of self-worth, their self-perception, 00:33:11.157 --> 00:33:16.624 and then by regulating the victim's body and appearance, then the abuser seeks to diminish the victim's self-esteem, 00:33:16.702 --> 00:33:19.624 and it makes them more vulnerable to manipulation and control. 00:33:20.087 --> 00:33:25.137 And all of these things just feed each other and just slowly wear down the victim's sense of self. 00:33:25.678 --> 00:33:29.624 So then they're made to feel as though they are not capable of making decisions about their own body or well-being, 00:33:29.624 --> 00:33:31.624 and now they need that relier. 00:33:31.624 --> 00:33:44.624 They rely on that abuser for these decisions. And then any attempt at the victim to reclaim control over their body or their health, again, are met with our old friends' ridicule, criticism, emotional manipulation. 00:33:44.979 --> 00:33:47.624 Because there, the abuser might accuse the victim of not caring. 00:33:47.624 --> 00:33:54.624 You might not care. You must not care about your health, your appearance, and you must not appreciate my care and my concern for you. 00:33:54.624 --> 00:34:01.615 So then these accusations serve to gaslight the victim into doubting their own judgment, guilt them into surrendering their control to the abuser. 00:34:02.308 --> 00:34:06.908 So, ultimately, this body overseer manipulates the victim's desire for health and self-care, 00:34:07.444 --> 00:34:09.951 and then they transform it into another method of control and domination. 00:34:10.244 --> 00:34:15.164 And that leaves that victim feeling insecure, dependent, unable to assert their autonomy 00:34:15.164 --> 00:34:17.090 over even their very own body. 00:34:17.927 --> 00:34:22.097 We have two more. One is financial. I'll try to go through this one quickly. So it's this 00:34:22.097 --> 00:34:26.177 shifting of financial power. I'll just for the sake of having some of the titles here, 00:34:26.177 --> 00:34:31.057 the money master. In this manifestation of course of control, the abuser seeks to 00:34:31.057 --> 00:34:36.017 dominate the financial dynamics of the relationship. Man, this one can be just such an incredible form 00:34:36.017 --> 00:34:41.297 of control because if the person in this scenario, let's say the wife has been a stay-at-home mom, 00:34:41.297 --> 00:34:47.202 which is an amazing thing, then she may be left in a position where she lacks the financial. 00:34:47.661 --> 00:34:54.017 Acumen lacks the financial access to even be able to set boundaries or stand up for herself if she 00:34:54.017 --> 00:34:57.857 is starting to wake up to the emotional immaturity in her relationship. And it can be vice versa on 00:34:57.857 --> 00:35:02.677 the other side again as well. But this is often framed as the abuser being, we could air quote, 00:35:02.897 --> 00:35:07.457 better with money or just trying to help. And this pattern involves the abuser taking over 00:35:07.457 --> 00:35:12.257 the victim's finances, limiting their access to funds or controlling their ability to work or earn 00:35:12.257 --> 00:35:17.137 income. So then this money master might start with what would seem like harmless actions like 00:35:17.137 --> 00:35:22.617 like offering to handle all the bills or manage the joint finances. As time goes on, the abuser 00:35:22.617 --> 00:35:27.057 gradually consolidates control over all things financial, making the victim increasingly 00:35:27.057 --> 00:35:32.017 reliant on them for money. The abuser might control the victim's access to joint bank 00:35:32.017 --> 00:35:35.391 accounts, limit their spending, or impose strict budgets that leave the victim without. 00:35:35.788 --> 00:35:42.773 Any discretionary funds. In more extreme cases, the money master might prevent the victim 00:35:42.897 --> 00:35:46.097 from working or earning their own income, and they might criticize the victim's job 00:35:46.097 --> 00:35:50.737 or career choice or pressure them into quitting or create circumstances that make it really 00:35:50.737 --> 00:35:55.457 difficult for the victim to maintain employment at all. So then they might also discourage the 00:35:55.665 --> 00:36:00.257 victim from pursuing further education or skill development, and that will limit these opportunities 00:36:00.257 --> 00:36:04.017 for financial independence. And a lot of times, whether it's the male or the female, if I find 00:36:04.017 --> 00:36:07.937 them working with somebody that is in a position where they are starting to look at leaving the 00:36:07.937 --> 00:36:14.097 relationship, they may try to get a job or change careers or go back to school. And that's where you 00:36:14.097 --> 00:36:19.439 You can see the motives behind maybe the person that is being more manipulative or controlling. 00:36:20.097 --> 00:36:22.869 Where they may not want that of their partner. 00:36:23.617 --> 00:36:27.977 So then this primary objective of the money master is to create financial dependence. 00:36:27.977 --> 00:36:32.097 We're starting to see a lot of just creating this emotional or financial dependence on 00:36:32.097 --> 00:36:37.003 people and then that traps that victim into the relationship through this economic control. 00:36:37.897 --> 00:36:41.877 And then the victim is made to feel incapable of managing their own finances and dependent 00:36:41.877 --> 00:36:43.728 on the abuser for their financial survivor. 00:36:44.477 --> 00:36:50.357 We keep going back to that intermittent reinforcement. So the way that that would look in the financial world is that the person controlling the purse 00:36:50.357 --> 00:36:56.397 string, so to speak, is happy to offer it and then provide the, Oh my gosh, this person's amazing. 00:36:56.397 --> 00:37:03.757 Here's this money so we can go do these fun things. And then the next breath, then withhold finances or criticize financial choices. 00:37:03.757 --> 00:37:07.397 So the same person that is the person that hands out the reward is also the person that 00:37:07.397 --> 00:37:15.199 is the Punisher, which creates that intermittent reinforcement, this trauma bond of sorts around finances. 00:37:16.271 --> 00:37:21.881 So then any attempt by the victim to regain this financial autonomy are then met with 00:37:21.881 --> 00:37:27.161 resistance or manipulation and the abuser then starts to belittle the victim's financial skills. 00:37:27.397 --> 00:37:29.881 Oh, you don't really even know what you're talking about, or do you even know how much 00:37:29.881 --> 00:37:33.961 money we make, or do you know how much money is being spent? And they insist that if it's 00:37:33.961 --> 00:37:39.487 what they're doing, it's for the best, or they use emotional manipulation to then continue to, 00:37:39.974 --> 00:37:43.561 I don't know, deter the victim from seeking this financial independence or having a say in the 00:37:43.561 --> 00:37:48.441 the finances. So in essence, this money master leverages financial control to limit the victim's 00:37:48.441 --> 00:37:53.405 options and freedom, and it makes it incredibly difficult for them to leave the relationship 00:37:53.450 --> 00:37:58.601 or resist the abuser's control because of that financial peace. So then the victim's 00:37:58.601 --> 00:38:04.081 left feeling financial insecure and powerless, and that reinforces more and more the abuser's 00:38:04.081 --> 00:38:09.645 control over them. Finally, what I call the social puppeteer. 00:38:10.361 --> 00:38:15.614 So in this pattern of coercive control, this is characterized by the abuser manipulating social scenarios. 00:38:15.901 --> 00:38:20.151 Some call it in the world of emotional immaturity, sequestering or isolating the victim. 00:38:20.601 --> 00:38:27.101 So they start to try to manipulate or control these social scenarios and relationships to isolate the victim. 00:38:27.101 --> 00:38:31.401 And they will effectively cut them off from their support circles. 00:38:31.401 --> 00:38:35.806 And typically this they masquerade as jealousy, protectiveness, or even affection. 00:38:36.061 --> 00:38:40.441 And this tactic is often deployed with the intent to create an environment where the 00:38:40.441 --> 00:38:45.717 abuser can have maximum control by just controlling the people that they talk to. 00:38:46.361 --> 00:38:50.441 So they can slowly but surely start to keep the person away from, keep the victim away 00:38:50.441 --> 00:38:57.267 from people that may help the victim see that they are not in a healthy relationship. 00:38:58.421 --> 00:39:04.082 So the manipulator, they may start by voicing concerns about certain friends or family members. 00:39:04.550 --> 00:39:08.502 And they subtly just start to suggest that they don't think that person is being a very good influence. 00:39:09.069 --> 00:39:11.801 You know, they're definitely a negative influence or they don't have good intentions. 00:39:11.801 --> 00:39:16.841 And over time, the criticisms might start to escalate into full-on opposition to the 00:39:17.045 --> 00:39:18.188 victim's social interactions. 00:39:20.070 --> 00:39:19.071 And then, you know, it's just a matter of time. 00:39:20.070 --> 00:39:24.240 The abuser might use various strategies like guilt-tripping or anger-sulking outright demands, 00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:27.884 and they start to pressure the victim into reducing or cutting off contact with their 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:34.000 social circle. And they can do that too by even just creating drama or creating things that will 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:39.641 pop up right before the victim is going to start to go hang out with friends or people that the. 00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:45.360 Manipulator or the abuser thinks is not good for them to hang out with. 00:39:46.186 --> 00:39:51.360 Now, in real extreme cases, then the abuser may resort to spreading rumors or false narratives 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:55.920 about the victim to their friends and family, and they do this to try to create rifts and 00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:57.051 even cause conflicts. 00:39:57.600 --> 00:40:01.200 And they might portray themselves as this misunderstood or they're the wronged party 00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:04.760 or all these things just to isolate the victim further. 00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:11.480 And you see this even within the family dynamic. I can't tell you how many times I hear stories about the, okay, let's go with the opposite 00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:16.400 gender stereotype here, but where an emotionally abusive or emotionally immature woman, the 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.736 wife in this scenario, is even saying to the kids, hey, don't tell your dad, don't tell, 00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:27.443 your dad, but he hasn't really been showing up lately, or he's been manipulating me and 00:40:27.680 --> 00:40:29.162 he's been controlling the money. 00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:33.560 Where it's in essence, in reality, in this scenario, it was the wife that was being the 00:40:33.560 --> 00:40:37.800 one that was more emotionally abusive, but then she was triangulating by saying to the 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:41.240 kids, hey, you can't tell your dad this, but I'm telling you because I want you guys to 00:40:41.240 --> 00:40:43.926 to be aware because I really, I can trust you guys. 00:40:44.394 --> 00:40:49.460 And so then dad's just going around just being and doing and then the kids are kind of viewing him as, 00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:51.695 man, I can't believe what he's doing to mom. 00:40:51.866 --> 00:40:55.710 Even though in this scenario, it wasn't the thing that he was doing to mom, 00:40:56.080 --> 00:41:01.700 but it was mom's manipulation or triangulation of the kids. And this, they didn't, dad and the kids didn't work this out 00:41:01.700 --> 00:41:03.650 till later in life, which is just so unfortunate. 00:41:04.340 --> 00:41:07.740 So in these scenarios too, the abuser might monopolize the victim's time 00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:10.140 and ensure they have very little opportunity to socialize 00:41:10.140 --> 00:41:12.905 to maintain their relationships, kind of keeping them busy all the time. 00:41:13.060 --> 00:41:16.820 They could insist on accompanying the victim to social events, creating this sense of unease 00:41:16.820 --> 00:41:19.881 or inhibiting the victim's ability to communicate freely with others. 00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:25.500 You'll find that in these scenarios, a lot of times the abuser will just want to go 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:30.060 and, no, if you're going out with your friends, then why can't I just come hang out? 00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:31.476 I wanna meet your friends, I think that'd be fun. 00:41:32.140 --> 00:41:35.599 And, or, no, you shouldn't invite them over here and I promise I'll be out of the room. 00:41:35.700 --> 00:41:41.060 But then when the friends come over, then the abuser is sure to be there all the time. 00:41:41.060 --> 00:41:47.869 And this is where we go back to the person that is the IT manager or the technology abuser in a sense, 00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:51.860 where, no, bring them home, because then I can listen in with the devices 00:41:51.860 --> 00:41:53.514 that we have around the home. 00:41:53.660 --> 00:41:58.300 So again, this objective is to isolate the victim and making sure that they have very little 00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:00.202 or limited access to external support. 00:42:01.247 --> 00:42:05.897 So by controlling the victim's social environment, the abuser then aims to reinforce their power, 00:42:05.897 --> 00:42:10.078 their control, making the victim increasingly dependent on them emotionally and psychologically. 00:42:11.068 --> 00:42:15.164 And then it's the similar vibe I think we've had with all the patterns, of course, of control, 00:42:15.416 --> 00:42:18.396 but attempts by the victim to reestablish social connections are then met with, 00:42:18.918 --> 00:42:22.697 it could be punishment, further manipulation. The victim might be gaslit into believing that 00:42:22.870 --> 00:42:29.177 they are misremembering events or overreacting. And so then the abuser creates this profound, 00:42:29.406 --> 00:42:33.133 They can create this profound sense of loneliness in the victim and desperation. 00:42:33.646 --> 00:42:36.193 And that just exacerbates this control over their life. 00:42:36.833 --> 00:42:40.929 Boy, it's hard to go from, we went to, we started with jokes, haikus, and riddles. 00:42:41.352 --> 00:42:46.924 Then we went to a very heavy section of these different patterns of coercive control. 00:42:47.365 --> 00:42:51.263 But I just wanna make you aware of those. And if those are happening in your relationship, 00:42:51.668 --> 00:42:53.064 first up, know that you're not alone. 00:42:53.217 --> 00:42:55.577 By far, you're not alone. The reason this episode exists 00:42:55.577 --> 00:42:58.060 is because of all of the examples that I've been sent. 00:42:58.474 --> 00:43:05.316 And you are welcome to share your examples with me at contactattonioverbay.com or infoattonioverbay.com 00:43:05.694 --> 00:43:10.303 and I will read them and I see you and I hear you and I know the struggles that you're going through 00:43:10.717 --> 00:43:15.641 and just know that you are on this road to self-discovery, 00:43:16.137 --> 00:43:19.497 and you didn't know what you didn't know and now you know but you're not really sure what to do 00:43:19.782 --> 00:43:23.626 and that can be a really difficult place to be but eventually you're gonna do more than you don't 00:43:23.737 --> 00:43:27.977 and finally you're gonna become and if you are in a situation or a position 00:43:27.977 --> 00:43:30.216 where you still are wondering, but is it me? 00:43:30.317 --> 00:43:31.071 Am I the problem? 00:43:31.677 --> 00:43:35.077 Most likely you're not, because you are the one that is asking the questions 00:43:35.077 --> 00:43:36.086 and you're the one that's doing the work. 00:43:36.237 --> 00:43:41.857 And if you start asking your spouse, your partner to, you would love for them to take a look 00:43:41.857 --> 00:43:43.422 at some of this information that you're learning, 00:43:43.917 --> 00:43:50.677 then sometimes that will be the exact recipe to start having you both go down this path 00:43:50.677 --> 00:43:52.524 of things that you didn't know that you didn't know. 00:43:52.917 --> 00:43:56.917 There are other times where it might lead to more gaslighting, but just know 00:43:56.917 --> 00:44:01.301 that you are starting to now understand what's happening and you're starting to get more data. 00:44:01.457 --> 00:44:06.537 And that's a huge part of this awakening to the emotional immaturity in your relationship. 00:44:06.756 --> 00:44:10.105 And quite frankly, it can be the emotional immaturity in your own self. 00:44:10.257 --> 00:44:14.525 And that's part of what we all go through just in the process of being human. 00:44:15.117 --> 00:44:18.377 And you don't know what you don't know. You don't go get the tools 00:44:18.377 --> 00:44:20.017 until you've been through some stuff in your life 00:44:20.017 --> 00:44:20.737 or in your relationship. 00:44:21.277 --> 00:44:25.130 And so if you are listening to this, you're definitely, especially if you're still listening to this episode, 00:44:25.499 --> 00:44:27.732 you're definitely on that path of discovery. 00:44:27.857 --> 00:44:34.217 Keep on discovering and you do deserve to be happy and it's 100% absolutely unequivocally okay 00:44:34.217 --> 00:44:36.428 for you to have your own thoughts and opinions and emotions 00:44:36.817 --> 00:44:40.389 and I would love it if you can get to the place sooner than later where you can spend more time 00:44:40.777 --> 00:44:45.043 just thinking and being and dreaming and doing and wondering and being curious 00:44:45.397 --> 00:44:50.977 than trying to manage your emotional response or the relationship to try to control someone else's emotions 00:44:50.977 --> 00:44:51.975 because that's not okay. 00:44:52.884 --> 00:44:56.719 All right, I welcome your questions, your feedback And I will see you next time on Waking Up To Narcissism. 00:44:56.720 --> 00:45:12.163 Music.