Music.
Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 81 of Waking Up to Narcissism.
I am your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist,
and host of the Virtual Couch podcast,
and I am glad to have you here.
And we are going to continue to unravel the complex threads of all things emotionally immature,
all the way up there to narcissistic traits and tendencies and how these things negatively impact your relationship.
And last week, we talked more about control, and I want to just hammer home as much as I can
that you can have this love or control in an adult relationship, but not both.
And that elicited a lot of good feedback. And there's a topic that I've wanted to talk about
almost as if I would have set last week up as a part one, this could be a part two,
but it's talking about coercive control.
So a different way that control manifests itself in the relationship.
So we're gonna talk about that today.
Of course, if you are interested in a marriage workshop that I have,
you can go find the link in the link tree, which is in the show notes,
or you can go to my website, tonyoverbay.com.
I would love it if you would sign up for my newsletter and you can submit any questions or comments
or your own stories, your poems, everything to contact or info at tonyoverbay.com
and I would love to have that if you're interested in being in the men's or women's Facebook group.
So all of that you'll find in the show notes or you can just reach out to me.
So before we get to the more serious matters that we're gonna talk about today,
a friend of mine submitted what he thinks will be the first in waking up to narcissism history
And that is, it's all around love or control.
And he sent a haiku, a riddle, a knock-knock joke, and I think for the first time
in waking up the narcissism history, a limerick, an all-around love and control.
Now, I have reached back out to this individual and asked if this was done via artificial intelligence chat GPT,
and they have not gotten back to me yet.
So this might be my guess.
Here we go. First, we'll start with the haiku.
In love or control, one can thrive. The other steals. Choose heart. soul.
Next up is the riddle. What can flourish when let free, but withers when tightly gripped?
In hands that hold it tightly, it's cherished. In chains, it's stripped. What am I?
And so I believe that is love. So that one is actually very beautiful. I really enjoy that.
And next is the knock-knock joke. Knock-knock. Who's there? Olive. Olive who? Olive freely,
not under control, for that's where love truly unfolds. So Olive, or I'll live.
And last but not least, the limerick. He said, wait, there's more. Here's a limerick.
In a bond where one tightly controls, love like a bloom never fully unfolds,
but when hearts are set free, they can dance, they can be in a love where true
trust takes hold. Either the person, my friend, has all of a sudden become incredibly more creative, or I believe they may have plugged some things into
into chat GPT. But regardless, I appreciate that because I'm bringing a
little bit of levity there before we get to the heavier subject today.
So maybe by way of a little bit of a transition, I do want to talk about some, well, I love movies. I really do.
I enjoy ones that are based off of true events or based off of a true story.
But we went to a movie last night, actually the new Mission Impossible movie, which was wonderful.
But there were a couple of the previews that talked about upcoming movies that were based
on a true story or based on real events.
And it does leave me often wondering if the true part, it could be as little as, okay,
they both wore, they both like to wear red shirts. So we've got that part down and now we can take creative license.
So I hope that that's not what a based off of a true story movie really is.
But let me share a narrative with you that is, this is absolutely based off of a true
story, but there's more.
Let me talk a little bit about technology. I've made the jokes today about artificial intelligence, which that was part of why I.
I put those riddles and rhymes and limericks and the haikus and jokes that I think that my friend
did create through artificial intelligence.
But if you are afraid of AI, and I am not talking about 76ers legendary point guard
Allen Iverson, I'm talking about artificial intelligence, and the tool can really be used for your good,
and here's an example of how.
So I had three emails that were very similar. They were talking in essence about this coercive control,
this concept that we're gonna talk about today.
And they were narratives where there were two of them, where the man was more emotionally immature,
when the woman was more emotionally immature.
So what I did was I took these three similar stories, again, centered around coercive control,
and I fed them into ChatGPT, and then I asked it to take the three stories,
combine them into one, change the names and some of the details to provide this new narrative,
and it did an amazing job, which is funny to me.
I always reply back to the artificial intelligence because I hope that someday,
if the robots do occupy a significant place of power society, they will at least think, that guy was pretty nice.
So I told Chad at GPT that they did a fantastic job combining these three narratives into one, and they always say thank you.
And that's your technology moment for the day.
But here goes, I want to tell a narrative and I think this will ease into what we're going to talk about today.
So, meet Jenna and Mark, a seemingly typical married couple.
However, as we delve deeper into their daily lives, a more unsettling reality surfaces.
Mark, charming and charismatic, he harbors a side of him that is far less appealing.
He's a practitioner of this coercive control, a type of abuse that remains largely invisible to onlookers.
So, pattern one that we're going to talk about today, I call the stripping of autonomy.
So he made sure that Jenna quit her job, claiming that he would be the sole provider,
that he would be the protector. Jenna, who was initially flattered, soon realized the implications,
because Mark ended up dictating her daily schedule, her friendships, even her hobbies.
So her autonomy began to slowly but surely evaporate. And it was like that she was a
supporting character in her own life story, that her decisions slowly became not her own. Even when
she tried to mention these things to Mark, she was quickly told that, well, that isn't what you
you really want, or just trust me, I can take care of this.
And then attempts to reclaim her autonomy were met with hostility.
And eventually she was dismissed as ungrateful toward Mark.
And for all the sacrifices that he had done, to the point where she started to then have that stripping
of the autonomy, where she started to feel like maybe it is her, that maybe she's not as grateful as she should be.
So which leads into pattern two, which is the manipulation of intimacy and sex.
So Mark began to slowly control their intimate life as well.
His demands reached all the way into the bedroom and they became increasingly explicit
and beginning to cross boundaries that Jenna wasn't comfortable with.
But every time that Jenna expressed her discomfort, she was told that she was overreacting.
Or that she needed to loosen up, that the blame was on her and it wasn't on him.
If he tried to have conversations around sex and intimacy, then he would go into more of a victim mindset and say,
no, okay, it doesn't matter, I won't ever ask for anything again.
Pattern three that we often see in the world, of course, control I call the technological leash. So Mark then insisted initially on having all
of Jenna's passwords for her safety, he would say, that he installed a home security
system that seemed to surveil her more than it protected them. She began to feel like
a prisoner in her own home, and any attempt to question his actions was met with scoffs
and comments about her being paranoid. And then pattern four, the regulated health and
body. So Mark began, and this was done initially by suggestion or just trying to have some
conversations but began regulating Jenna's diet and her sleep schedule. He ended up deciding
what she ate and when she slept and what she wore and if Jenna defied his recommendations
– I'd use that in air quotes – Mark accused her of not caring about her health
or her appearance or him. So, despite Jenna's pleas that she didn't feel comfortable with.
This level of control, Mark brushed her off because he was asserting that he did know
what was best for her and isn't that what she wanted was to eat healthier and to be
able to look better. But again, those were determined by Mark. Pattern 5, we have
this shifting of financial power as well.
Slowly took control of all the finances, claiming that he was better at managing the money.
And Jenna found herself needing to ask for money, even for basic necessities.
So when she suggested getting a job to regain some financial independence,
Mark rebuffed her. He said that her role was to care for the home, not to worry about money,
that that was his job, and that if she just needed more, she just needed to ask him.
Even though she felt like if she even hesitated or brought things up, then she would get grilled
and told that, well, that sounded like she wasn't being appreciative or that she was
being selfish. And then that sixth pattern, of course, of control would be the emotional
roulette. So Mark's mood dictated the atmosphere at home. And Jenna had to tiptoe around him,
always wary of triggering a negative reaction. On good days, Mark was the caring husband.
But on bad days, Jenna found herself the target of his frustrations. And she felt like she
was walking on eggshells, with her peace of mind just basically hinging on his ever-fluctuating,
And what can be incredibly difficult about that is that when he would get really angry and frustrated,
then he would at times apologize and say, I won't ever do it again.
And this is where I like to say that I do believe in those moments.
A lot of times the emotionally, more emotionally immature person absolutely means that they do not like the way that that feels either.
So to get rid of that discomfort, they apologize and they will never do it again until they do it again.
Instead of apologizing, getting out of that discomfort and then working on themselves,
Whether it's the two of them going to couples counseling or are in the scenario
mark, going to individual counseling would probably even be better at that point, as long as he's willing to take criticism or feedback or he's willing
to self-confront.
And is he starting a meditation practice? Or is he starting to really try to look at his wife with curiosity and not just saying,
but I know, but I know better. And she's not even being honest with herself.
So throughout this process, Jenna tried to voice her concerns.
She tried to start conversations about the subtle manipulation or the loss of
control. But every time she was gaslit, she was made to believe that she was
imagining things or that she was ungrateful.
And as time passed, Jenna found herself tolerating his behavior, but unfortunately
doing what so many people do of just hoping things would eventually improve. But hope
started to fade as she continued to feel unheard, unseen, and then just crushed under the weight
of his coercive control. And that is, thank you chat GPT, the unspoken reality of so many
of the victims of coercive control. Because it's not about physical violence or even
overt, blatant abuse. It's about this gradual, just relentless erosion of self-worth, of
autonomy, of identity. So today I want to talk more about those patterns that I mentioned,
But just in general, when you think about, now you can see that this topic of course
of control is so important to discuss because when you think about abuse in a relationship
or even when you think about what can make somebody leave a relationship, it can be pretty
easy to spot when it is the physical abuse.
And then if somebody leaves because, I mean, at some point they literally have a black
eye or bruises or a broken arm and they finally just say, man, it's about time you got out.
So what we don't often think about, so again, it's easy to think about when you see or hear
about these explosive arguments or heated disagreements that are turned physical.
Or you may overhear just this constant barrage of demeaning words. I've had people at times where
they will talk about going on vacation with a couple and then thinking that they had thought
this couple was just had everything figured out and then they get out there and they're with them
for an extended period of time and then they start to hear things like a physical, just a
physical barrage, whether it's from the husband or the wife or both. I just had somebody, another
person very close to me talk about taking on a new job where they were in the presence of a couple.
That when this person was talking one-on-one with each person in the relationship, they were so nice.
But when you got the two of them together, they just bickered. And it was almost as if that was
the air they breathed in the relationship together. So that can be just so difficult to be
in a relationship like that because people don't necessarily see it from the outside.
And even when they start to have time and they do start to interact with people more,
and they do see those signs of this coercive control or this emotional abuse, then it's
really difficult to try to do something about it because you start to feel crazy
yourself, because you start to think, well, maybe it isn't as bad, or maybe I'm
only seeing one side of things and I'm not seeing it the right way. It's
overlooked. It's hidden in the shadows of the day-to-day lives. And this form of
abuse, because it doesn't leave the visible scars, I think it can actually be more destructive because it can happen over longer periods of time.
Imagine living in a house that is starting to sink into the ground, but But it's not sinking all at once. It's a slow, steady sinking. It's so gradual that you barely
notice it at all. You wake up in the morning and you start to grab a bowl of cereal, and
it just tilts a little bit. You see the milk swishing just a little bit. Or your favorite
family picture, it just hangs at a slight angle. And the kitchen table starts to wobble
just a little bit. And it's disconcerting, but you make little adjustments. You keep.
Up a brave face and life goes on. You put a little piece of cardboard under the table
you think that, well, now it isn't so bad until then, maybe it starts to get a
little bit worse after a long period of time, but after all the walls are still
standing or you can still, you can still get the bowl out and have breakfast.
It just, it just starts to seem a little off.
But then one day, you finally find that you're basically walking uphill to get from the living room to the bedroom.
And you can't open the front door without a forceful shove, and your cherished cereal
bowl keeps sliding off the kitchen table.
And the odd thing is that to the outside world, your house still looks perfectly fine.
But inside, everything is off balance, because you're off balance.
And the ground beneath your feet starts to shift, and you start to just leave interactions
just feeling uncertain and disoriented, which is a phrase that I've heard often.
And it can make you start to feel alone, even within your relationship.
So this is the reality for victims of coercive control, because it's this slow erosion of
autonomy of self-esteem and a personal space that then leaves the victims on shaky ground.
Not quite sure what's even happened, but especially unsure of how to fix it.
So we're going to dig a little bit deeper into these six types of coercive control.
We're going to expose them for hopefully what they truly are as forms of control and manipulation,
and hopefully equip you with the tools to recognize and then address it.
And I want to just bring great awareness to the whole reason that this podcast exists
is not trying to blame others.
Because when I go with my pillar one of my four pillars of a connected conversation,
that there is this assumption of good intentions in someone's behavior, or, and this is, we'll call it 1B,
or there is a reason why that person is showing up the way they are.
There's a reason why that person behaves the way they do.
There's a reason why that person attempts to love the way that they do,
and there's a reason why that person controls the way that they do.
And so often, most often it is because that's how they saw relationships modeled.
That this emotional immature reaction of a partner is at its core, a deep, deep insecurity.
That this person does not know how to sit with that discomfort at all.
So in order to make sure that they can keep someone in their lives, they need to control them.
And control them in a way that will, again, zap the autonomy out of their partner.
But to them, that's why when they see that their partner may be really hurting,
they can back off, I won't do it again. Because now I may lose them because they're angry.
So then I let go of the reins. But then as the day goes on and time goes on
and we go back to our normal, regularly scheduled programming,
then here comes that control back in there because that person isn't there doing their own work.
They're not trying to self-confront. And even when they do, and this is from my seat as a marriage therapist,
when I'm talking about trying to help a couple become too interdependent.
Differentiated people, meaning where one person ends and the other begins, not codependent, not in mesh, not two halves make a whole. As,
wonderful as that sounds, we need two wholes coming together to then make a third, a third entity of two people with this amazing
shared experiences, bringing all of our life experience into the situation. So now we are just, I can't wait to hear what my
spouse's experience of life is, and then to share mine. But neither of us are trying to control the other person, put the other
person down or change the other person's narrative. And I really believe that this
is not something that people just have in their factory default settings because we
didn't see that in our childhood. We didn't see our parents modeling that type of behavior.
So it feels like the very thing that sounds so counterintuitive that it's the cliche
that to love someone, you must let them go. But it really is to love someone, you need
to let them be and let them become. And you need to actually encourage that. You need
to be excited about that because as that happens and you start to realize that also allows
me the autonomy to be and think and feel the way that I can and then that person may still
be there right beside you and now we can have more real vulnerable conversations. You can
open up more and it isn't about control that you start to recognize what love truly can
be and what it is and it can just be mind-blowing. Anyway, I could talk about this ad nauseum
just over and over again. But let's get to these things that I mentioned in that narrative,
the narrative of Mark and Jen. I talked about stripping of autonomy. I talked about the
manipulation of intimacy and sex, the technological leash, regulated health and body, the shifting of
financial power, and then this emotional roulette. So let me dig into those a little bit deeper.
First up is that stripping of autonomy. So this is often disguised as romantic involvement or
concern, this can be part of that, the love bombing phase. That this pattern can, it includes
just what can seem like just benign behavior, but they start to slowly chip away at the.
Victim's autonomy. So the perpetrator might discourage the victim from working or pursuing
their interests, restrict their movement, exert control over mundane life choices like
their diet or their daily schedule. That that person, the person that is exerting the control
may have just an opinion, it might be just a low-key opinion as the kids say, about everything
that they're doing. Because the intent behind this pattern of coercive control is it's multifaceted.
Because in its simplest form, the individual seeking control is attempting to create a
a reality where the victim is entirely dependent on them.
That dependence can be financial, it can be emotional, it can be even social.
But the end goal is always the same, to create a dynamic where the victim feels they cannot
function independently and they must rely on the perpetrator. So, by discouraging the victim from
working, the abuser seeks to create financial dependence. If the victim is able to not earn
their own income, then they're less likely to leave, having fewer resources to support
themselves independently. So, when the victim's interests and hobbies are belittled and undermined,
And it isolates them, often severing their connections with friends or social groups.
And that isolation then further strengthens the abuser's control, because now the victim's
support system is progressively eroded.
And so when you start controlling the victim's movement and daily schedule, then that can
even be more oppressive.
Because when you're dictating when they can go out, who they see, when they eat, when
they can sleep, then the abuser reduces the victim's life to a pretty narrow, tightly
controlled existence.
And this is one of those things or situations where I think the people that are listening
to Waking Up to Narcissism can maybe understand or have seen or are in these types of relationships.
And because I think this is one where if you're hearing this and you have not been in this
type of a relationship or you're not familiar with it, then it's so easy to say, well, the
person just needs to do something different.
They just need to express themselves.
But then to the population that are listening to this podcast, it's not that easy, unfortunately.
So this level of control over time just leads to a sense of learned helplessness in the victim.
And so they start to feel like they're almost incapable of making even the most basic decisions
without their abuser's input or approval.
And then additionally, the abuser might maintain a facade of care and concern while enforcing
these restrictions. And that makes the victim question whether they really are, am I being abused?
Or is my partner, maybe they're being a little overprotective, or maybe they just care a lot.
And this ambiguity can make it even harder for the victim to recognize the control for
what it is, a manipulative tactic to diminish their independence and their autonomy.
So steadily, by eroding the victim's autonomy in these ways, the abuser ensures that the
victim feels trapped and reliant upon them, and often too intimidated or unsure to seek help.
So the result is this powerful form of control that then keeps the victim tethered to the
abuser, and then the abuser in this position of power, which then only just strengthens
over time. So next up, we have pattern two, which is the manipulation of intimacy and
sex, which can be a difficult thing to talk about, but is a very common form of coercive
control. So in this form, the perpetrator then manipulates the intimate aspects of the
relationship. And this is done by a lot of crossing of personal boundaries and turning
sexual interactions into means of exercising this power or control.
And underlying this form of control is, again, it's this need of dominance or a sense of entitlement to, in this case, the victim's body.
So by dictating the terms of their intimate life, then the abuser reinforces their power and control in the relationship.
So this could manifest in a lot of different ways, making demands or suggestions regarding
the victim's appearance, or insisting on certain sexual acts that the victim isn't
comfortable with, or using compliments and praise as a tool to manipulate the person into compliance.
And you can see where there can start to be such a gray area here, because people like
to be complimented, they like to hear nice things.
But if this is a conversation or a situation where somebody compliments, so that then they
can get something from that. So if they say, man, you look amazing, and did I tell you you look amazing?
And I can't believe that you didn't acknowledge the fact that I've been pointing out how much
I think that you look great.
And as if there was this, there's a cost to that, or there's a, there's something that
needs to be exchanged, or there's a reciprocal nature of if I compliment you, then now you
obviously owe me something.
So the, but you see it a lot though, just as an example where the, the abuser might
insist on certain types of clothing, or make critical remarks about the victim's body,
which can lower their self-esteem and make them more susceptible to control, and so when
it comes to this realm of sexual intimacy that can be such an important and private
part of a relationship, the abuser might insist on practices that then the victim finds uncomfortable
or degrading.
So they might use guilt and blame or shame to coerce the victim into giving in or acquiescing
to their demands and insisting that their requests are normal, or that the victim is
being prudish or overreacting or too sensitive.
Because the ultimate goal of this pattern, of course, of control is to assert some sort of
dominance in the most personal and intimate aspects of the victim's life. And then again,
if we're talking about isolation and secrecy and privacy, this is an area where a lot of people,
if we're going with the woman is the victim in this scenario, that she doesn't have maybe a lot,
of people that she talks about these things because they are part of her intimate or private life.
And then it seeks to turn sexuality, which is a domain that is built off of.
Respect, consent, enjoyment, into another avenue of control. And then by making the victim feel
that their boundaries and comfort are insignificant or wrong more often than not, then the abuser just
slowly but surely chips away at their confidence and their autonomy, and it leaves them feeling
more vulnerable to further and further manipulation. So the abuser in this scenario also might disguise
their actions as things like spicing up their relationship or, no, I just care about your
appearance. I want you to look good for yourself. But then that kind of muddies the waters though
and makes it more difficult for the victim to identify the abuse. So the victim might
then start to feel ashamed and guilty and confused and doubting their own feelings and
perceptions about what they want, what they want to look like, how they want to dress,
how they want to do their hair, what they just like to wear and who they like to be.
So this form of gaslighting then it starts to amplify the control, making again the victim
second guess their instincts.
And we want you to trust your gut. And again, both sides of the coin, this can happen with the female or the male being the
abuser in this scenario.
And so, but trusting your gut and because it's okay to have boundaries in your intimate life as well.
Because in this manner, the abuser uses intimacy and sex as a tool to again, degrade or dominate
or control the victim, adding another layer to that web of coercive control.
So let's move on to pattern three. This one's really fascinating. I spent the my first decade
before becoming a therapist in the computer industry, which I recognize now is so long ago
that when I like to think that I know things technological, the technology industry just
changes at such a rapid rate that I know that this is another, again, another area that I know
that I don't know what I don't know. But pattern three, of course, of control, as I like to call
call it the technological leash. When I was trying to come up with some other
names that I had the digital dictator down at this point as well. But in this
form of control, the perpetrator uses technology as a tool to monitor,
surveil, control the victim. So the underlying motive here is to exert
control and maintain dominance by invading the victim's privacy and.
Limiting their freedom, quite frankly. And if you can start to see this pattern that we're going to see continually over and over in coercive
control, is there can be this real subtle hint of, but there's some good here too because if you are on this, if somebody knows more about technology and they just don't
know, I have cameras all around the house because I want to keep us safe. But then if they are
saying, Hey, I noticed you left at four o'clock, where were you going? Or you, you didn't stop by
for a little while until it was too late. Or I noticed that so-and-so was at the house today.
What were they asking for? I've had so many examples of these. One recently of somebody
somebody that was just...
Doing the door-to-door sales knocking for, I don't know, pest control or what's that,
solar or whatever it looks like. And then the husband in the scenario just gave the
wife the third degree of saying, well, you talked to him for quite a while and I couldn't really
hear well on the ring cam. And so I'm curious why. What were you, did you cover up the speaker on the
ring cam? Because were you trying to hide something? And she was just answering the door
and there was nothing nefarious about her talking to the person that rang the doorbell.
So the digital dictator or the technology leash person, they start often very subtly.
They might insist on having access to the victim's passwords and emails and social media accounts
under the pretense of safety or trust. And let me just say, too, as I say, the victim and the
abuser, it's starting to just sound very heavy, but I don't want to just simply replace it with
Ken and Barbie or person A and person B. So I just want to acknowledge the fact that if that
that starts to sound heavy, that's just for the context that we can say, again, the victim can be the male
or the female, the abuser, the male or the female.
So I'm gonna continue with those terms just to make sure that we're staying in the.
It's clear of who I'm talking about when I'm talking about the coercive control.
We go back to this person having the victim's emails and social accounts under this pretense of safety,
digital safety even, and then gradually the demands might escalate into installing surveillance systems
shared spaces or tracking devices on the victim's personal devices. The digital dictator may also
then use technology to isolate the victim, such as controlling their access to the internet or
their use of digital devices, all in the name of good. Maybe they might say things like, well,
and I can actually pull from real examples of, well, we should shut down the internet for the
kids sake at nine o'clock at night.
And so then that includes us too, says the scenario was the husband, who then the wife,
couldn't get on social media because then that was blocked at the router level, except for then he
was able to get around it by he knew the master password. But another example might be, and these
are all based on a true story, but the abuser may install surveillance cameras in the home.
Sensibly for security, but then again, in reality to monitor the victim's movements
or control their activities. They might insist on having access to the victim's personal accounts
or devices justifying this invasion of privacy with excuses such as concern for their safety,
or a need for transparency, or a desire to protect the victim from supposed online threats.
Now, I will say in a healthy relationship, I am a huge fan of people knowing everybody's passwords,
you can get into their email accounts, and that sort of thing. It even sounds funny to say get
into, because I know that in my own personal relationships, if there isn't anything to hide,
then why would anyone worry about someone having access to accounts? But it goes both ways. It's
reciprocal. And so if the agreement is that both of you will have access to all of your passwords
and accounts because there is some safety in there, heaven forbid if somebody pass away and
you don't have access to bank accounts or sensitive information that is needed, then that would be
something that would be necessary. The difficulty in all things emotionally immature is that it
It just takes on this slightly different meaning or this slightly different way that it is done.
Again, this is why the coercive control is such an important concept
because it's done as a way to control the other person,
that it isn't just this, hey, we have this mutually reciprocal open conversations
around everything digital.
It's, hey, I haven't given you my passwords, but I need your passwords.
And then I'll get you your passwords later, or I'll give you that access
the information that you need later, but I need yours right now because of some special
situation or circumstance.
But then by tracking the victim's movements, communications, online activity, then the
abuser does over time create this environment of just constant surveillance where the victim's
actions are monitored and controlled.
And then the abuser can then use this information to continue to control, criticize, that's
a huge part of this, and manipulate the victim, amplifying their feelings of fear and entrapment.
And we've got three more of these coercive control patterns to go, so you can start to
see how this can just feel heavy as there are these control measures on a lot of different
sides or a lot of different areas of the relationship. And then any attempt by the victim to reclaim
their privacy or question the abuser's actions are typically dismissed. Often this is where
the person just does not answer. And if you are the pathologically kind person, then often
it's difficult enough for you to bring up your questions or concerns around your digital
privacy being invaded. And then if you are expressing that, then you may be told immediately,
well, why, what do you have to hide? And then if you say things to the effect of, well,
I don't feel like I have access to your accounts.
Well, are you saying that you think that I'm doing something wrong?
So you can see where people just start to get in this pattern of just feeling
like they're going crazy or gaslit.
So at this point then, let's say that the pathologically kind or victim in this scenario is saying,
well, I would like access to your accounts.
Now the abuser might accuse the victim of being paranoid or overreacting,
or maybe it's because you're hiding something.
So they're gaslighting the victim into doubting their own perceptions,
and then that further strengthens, abuser's control. So, in this way, the digital dictator, so to speak, transforms technology
from a tool of convenience into this instrument of, I don't know, control and oppression. So.
Then the victim is stripped of their privacy, their autonomy is undermined, and then they are
made to feel as though they are under constant watch, which further reinforces this power
imbalance in the abusive relationship.
Let's do three more. We'll try to get through these quickly. The next one is the pattern four is,
it's the person regulates the victim's health and body. And in this scenario, when I was talking
about Mark and Jenna, Mark began regulating Jenna's diet and her sleep schedule. And he
decided what she ate, when she slept, what she wore. If Jenna defied his recommendations, Mark
then said, you don't care about your health or your appearance. I guess I care about you more
than you do. So this regulated health and body pattern. So in this form of coercive control,
the abuser then seeks to exert control over the victim's physical, in essence, all things
physical. The perpetrator may control the victim's diet or sleep schedule, physical activities.
Again, we mentioned earlier their appearance under the pretext or the concern that I just care about
you. I care about your health and I care about your attractiveness because I want you to look
good. The body, I was starting to refer to this as the body overseer in my notes. The body
overseer then typically begins by suggesting alterations to their lifestyle, their appearance.
Again, under the guise of this is for the victim's own good, they might present these
suggestions as just advice, subtle advice, little recommendations, given the illusion
that the victim has the choice. And here's the big thing about coercive control,
that they have a choice to accept or reject these changes.
But these suggestions are so often they're accompanied by subtle manipulations or guilt trips that are designed to pressure the victim into compliance.
So that feeling that you do have a choice is a huge piece of the coercive control component altogether.
And then as time passes, these suggestions evolve into directives or demands, and the abuser might dictate what the victim can and cannot eat.
They set strict sleeping schedules. They impose stringent exercise routines.
Hey, get to the gym today.
They may also control the victim's wardrobe, criticizing their clothing choices, or insisting that they dress a certain way to truthfully please the abuser.
But then that again is made into a situation that appears like the abuser just wants what's best for the victim.
But there's no curiosity there, no questions about what do you want.
Because that underlying goal of this body overseer is to control the victim's physical autonomy, and in doing so, here we are back to control.
Controlling their sense of self-worth, their self-perception,
and then by regulating the victim's body and appearance, then the abuser seeks to diminish the victim's self-esteem,
and it makes them more vulnerable to manipulation and control.
And all of these things just feed each other and just slowly wear down the victim's sense of self.
So then they're made to feel as though they are not capable of making decisions about their own body or well-being,
and now they need that relier.
They rely on that abuser for these decisions. And then any attempt at the victim to reclaim control over their body or their health, again, are met with our old friends' ridicule, criticism, emotional manipulation.
Because there, the abuser might accuse the victim of not caring.
You might not care. You must not care about your health, your appearance, and you must not appreciate my care and my concern for you.
So then these accusations serve to gaslight the victim into doubting their own judgment, guilt them into surrendering their control to the abuser.
So, ultimately, this body overseer manipulates the victim's desire for health and self-care,
and then they transform it into another method of control and domination.
And that leaves that victim feeling insecure, dependent, unable to assert their autonomy
over even their very own body.
We have two more. One is financial. I'll try to go through this one quickly. So it's this
shifting of financial power. I'll just for the sake of having some of the titles here,
the money master. In this manifestation of course of control, the abuser seeks to
dominate the financial dynamics of the relationship. Man, this one can be just such an incredible form
of control because if the person in this scenario, let's say the wife has been a stay-at-home mom,
which is an amazing thing, then she may be left in a position where she lacks the financial.
Acumen lacks the financial access to even be able to set boundaries or stand up for herself if she
is starting to wake up to the emotional immaturity in her relationship. And it can be vice versa on
the other side again as well. But this is often framed as the abuser being, we could air quote,
better with money or just trying to help. And this pattern involves the abuser taking over
the victim's finances, limiting their access to funds or controlling their ability to work or earn
income. So then this money master might start with what would seem like harmless actions like
like offering to handle all the bills or manage the joint finances. As time goes on, the abuser
gradually consolidates control over all things financial, making the victim increasingly
reliant on them for money. The abuser might control the victim's access to joint bank
accounts, limit their spending, or impose strict budgets that leave the victim without.
Any discretionary funds. In more extreme cases, the money master might prevent the victim
from working or earning their own income, and they might criticize the victim's job
or career choice or pressure them into quitting or create circumstances that make it really
difficult for the victim to maintain employment at all. So then they might also discourage the
victim from pursuing further education or skill development, and that will limit these opportunities
for financial independence. And a lot of times, whether it's the male or the female, if I find
them working with somebody that is in a position where they are starting to look at leaving the
relationship, they may try to get a job or change careers or go back to school. And that's where you
You can see the motives behind maybe the person that is being more manipulative or controlling.
Where they may not want that of their partner.
So then this primary objective of the money master is to create financial dependence.
We're starting to see a lot of just creating this emotional or financial dependence on
people and then that traps that victim into the relationship through this economic control.
And then the victim is made to feel incapable of managing their own finances and dependent
on the abuser for their financial survivor.
We keep going back to that intermittent reinforcement. So the way that that would look in the financial world is that the person controlling the purse
string, so to speak, is happy to offer it and then provide the, Oh my gosh, this person's amazing.
Here's this money so we can go do these fun things. And then the next breath, then withhold finances or criticize financial choices.
So the same person that is the person that hands out the reward is also the person that
is the Punisher, which creates that intermittent reinforcement, this trauma bond of sorts around finances.
So then any attempt by the victim to regain this financial autonomy are then met with
resistance or manipulation and the abuser then starts to belittle the victim's financial skills.
Oh, you don't really even know what you're talking about, or do you even know how much
money we make, or do you know how much money is being spent? And they insist that if it's
what they're doing, it's for the best, or they use emotional manipulation to then continue to,
I don't know, deter the victim from seeking this financial independence or having a say in the
the finances. So in essence, this money master leverages financial control to limit the victim's
options and freedom, and it makes it incredibly difficult for them to leave the relationship
or resist the abuser's control because of that financial peace. So then the victim's
left feeling financial insecure and powerless, and that reinforces more and more the abuser's
control over them. Finally, what I call the social puppeteer.
So in this pattern of coercive control, this is characterized by the abuser manipulating social scenarios.
Some call it in the world of emotional immaturity, sequestering or isolating the victim.
So they start to try to manipulate or control these social scenarios and relationships to isolate the victim.
And they will effectively cut them off from their support circles.
And typically this they masquerade as jealousy, protectiveness, or even affection.
And this tactic is often deployed with the intent to create an environment where the
abuser can have maximum control by just controlling the people that they talk to.
So they can slowly but surely start to keep the person away from, keep the victim away
from people that may help the victim see that they are not in a healthy relationship.
So the manipulator, they may start by voicing concerns about certain friends or family members.
And they subtly just start to suggest that they don't think that person is being a very good influence.
You know, they're definitely a negative influence or they don't have good intentions.
And over time, the criticisms might start to escalate into full-on opposition to the
victim's social interactions.
And then, you know, it's just a matter of time.
The abuser might use various strategies like guilt-tripping or anger-sulking outright demands,
and they start to pressure the victim into reducing or cutting off contact with their
social circle. And they can do that too by even just creating drama or creating things that will
pop up right before the victim is going to start to go hang out with friends or people that the.
Manipulator or the abuser thinks is not good for them to hang out with.
Now, in real extreme cases, then the abuser may resort to spreading rumors or false narratives
about the victim to their friends and family, and they do this to try to create rifts and
even cause conflicts.
And they might portray themselves as this misunderstood or they're the wronged party
or all these things just to isolate the victim further.
And you see this even within the family dynamic. I can't tell you how many times I hear stories about the, okay, let's go with the opposite
gender stereotype here, but where an emotionally abusive or emotionally immature woman, the
wife in this scenario, is even saying to the kids, hey, don't tell your dad, don't tell,
your dad, but he hasn't really been showing up lately, or he's been manipulating me and
he's been controlling the money.
Where it's in essence, in reality, in this scenario, it was the wife that was being the
one that was more emotionally abusive, but then she was triangulating by saying to the
kids, hey, you can't tell your dad this, but I'm telling you because I want you guys to
to be aware because I really, I can trust you guys.
And so then dad's just going around just being and doing and then the kids are kind of viewing him as,
man, I can't believe what he's doing to mom.
Even though in this scenario, it wasn't the thing that he was doing to mom,
but it was mom's manipulation or triangulation of the kids. And this, they didn't, dad and the kids didn't work this out
till later in life, which is just so unfortunate.
So in these scenarios too, the abuser might monopolize the victim's time
and ensure they have very little opportunity to socialize
to maintain their relationships, kind of keeping them busy all the time.
They could insist on accompanying the victim to social events, creating this sense of unease
or inhibiting the victim's ability to communicate freely with others.
You'll find that in these scenarios, a lot of times the abuser will just want to go
and, no, if you're going out with your friends, then why can't I just come hang out?
I wanna meet your friends, I think that'd be fun.
And, or, no, you shouldn't invite them over here and I promise I'll be out of the room.
But then when the friends come over, then the abuser is sure to be there all the time.
And this is where we go back to the person that is the IT manager or the technology abuser in a sense,
where, no, bring them home, because then I can listen in with the devices
that we have around the home.
So again, this objective is to isolate the victim and making sure that they have very little
or limited access to external support.
So by controlling the victim's social environment, the abuser then aims to reinforce their power,
their control, making the victim increasingly dependent on them emotionally and psychologically.
And then it's the similar vibe I think we've had with all the patterns, of course, of control,
but attempts by the victim to reestablish social connections are then met with,
it could be punishment, further manipulation. The victim might be gaslit into believing that
they are misremembering events or overreacting. And so then the abuser creates this profound,
They can create this profound sense of loneliness in the victim and desperation.
And that just exacerbates this control over their life.
Boy, it's hard to go from, we went to, we started with jokes, haikus, and riddles.
Then we went to a very heavy section of these different patterns of coercive control.
But I just wanna make you aware of those. And if those are happening in your relationship,
first up, know that you're not alone.
By far, you're not alone. The reason this episode exists
is because of all of the examples that I've been sent.
And you are welcome to share your examples with me at contactattonioverbay.com or infoattonioverbay.com
and I will read them and I see you and I hear you and I know the struggles that you're going through
and just know that you are on this road to self-discovery,
and you didn't know what you didn't know and now you know but you're not really sure what to do
and that can be a really difficult place to be but eventually you're gonna do more than you don't
and finally you're gonna become and if you are in a situation or a position
where you still are wondering, but is it me?
Am I the problem?
Most likely you're not, because you are the one that is asking the questions
and you're the one that's doing the work.
And if you start asking your spouse, your partner to, you would love for them to take a look
at some of this information that you're learning,
then sometimes that will be the exact recipe to start having you both go down this path
of things that you didn't know that you didn't know.
There are other times where it might lead to more gaslighting, but just know
that you are starting to now understand what's happening and you're starting to get more data.
And that's a huge part of this awakening to the emotional immaturity in your relationship.
And quite frankly, it can be the emotional immaturity in your own self.
And that's part of what we all go through just in the process of being human.
And you don't know what you don't know. You don't go get the tools
until you've been through some stuff in your life
or in your relationship.
And so if you are listening to this, you're definitely, especially if you're still listening to this episode,
you're definitely on that path of discovery.
Keep on discovering and you do deserve to be happy and it's 100% absolutely unequivocally okay
for you to have your own thoughts and opinions and emotions
and I would love it if you can get to the place sooner than later where you can spend more time
just thinking and being and dreaming and doing and wondering and being curious
than trying to manage your emotional response or the relationship to try to control someone else's emotions
because that's not okay.
All right, I welcome your questions, your feedback And I will see you next time on Waking Up To Narcissism.
Music.