1 00:00:01,634 --> 00:00:03,490 Welcome to the Vet podcast, 2 00:00:04,027 --> 00:00:06,340 by the Vet guru, Brendan and Mark. 3 00:00:06,898 --> 00:00:09,744 Get ready for the latest veterinary news, info 4 00:00:10,263 --> 00:00:12,656 and entertainment. Don't forget to visit us at 5 00:00:12,656 --> 00:00:16,565 the vet website. Vet dot com. Now. Sit 6 00:00:16,565 --> 00:00:16,725 back. 7 00:00:17,454 --> 00:00:19,301 Relax. It's over to the Vector, 8 00:00:19,831 --> 00:00:21,099 Brandon and Mark. 9 00:00:22,525 --> 00:00:23,025 Welcome 10 00:00:23,635 --> 00:00:27,405 to our subscribers and new listeners, Brendan here 11 00:00:27,405 --> 00:00:29,964 with Mark yvette guru dot com. 12 00:00:30,685 --> 00:00:32,225 The place to go at guru 13 00:00:32,524 --> 00:00:33,024 and 14 00:00:34,297 --> 00:00:36,307 Look at our website, go through our previous 15 00:00:36,443 --> 00:00:38,374 episodes. Say hello to our sponsors, 16 00:00:39,463 --> 00:00:42,023 become a subscriber. How are you, Mark? I'm 17 00:00:42,023 --> 00:00:43,696 great, Britain, really, really. Good. I've got a 18 00:00:43,696 --> 00:00:45,232 bit of a fright there because 19 00:00:45,928 --> 00:00:46,428 normally 20 00:00:46,804 --> 00:00:47,304 our 21 00:00:48,319 --> 00:00:51,523 outstanding podcast software lets me listen to the 22 00:00:51,523 --> 00:00:52,262 intro, but 23 00:00:52,879 --> 00:00:54,017 it was all bit 24 00:00:55,112 --> 00:00:56,628 silent at my end. And then all of 25 00:00:56,628 --> 00:00:58,723 a sudden, I got your beautiful 26 00:00:59,753 --> 00:01:00,071 voice. 27 00:01:00,629 --> 00:01:00,788 Well, 28 00:01:01,505 --> 00:01:01,743 introduce 29 00:01:02,380 --> 00:01:04,451 Production will fix it, Mark. I heard a 30 00:01:04,451 --> 00:01:06,998 always does. I heard Dean intro. So hopefully, 31 00:01:07,237 --> 00:01:09,320 when we're we try and stitch it all 32 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:10,911 together. It will work. 33 00:01:11,467 --> 00:01:12,898 The magic will happen. 34 00:01:13,455 --> 00:01:15,307 Yes. That's right. And 35 00:01:16,334 --> 00:01:18,655 I must met the excellent software, we should 36 00:01:18,655 --> 00:01:20,494 give them a plug mark even though we 37 00:01:20,494 --> 00:01:21,394 pay for 38 00:01:22,015 --> 00:01:23,474 a subscription and 39 00:01:24,269 --> 00:01:26,263 That's why we're always asking for donations to 40 00:01:26,263 --> 00:01:29,554 help their production costs. But Zen Caster 41 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:32,882 is the the software that we use for 42 00:01:32,882 --> 00:01:35,467 the actual accordion this a market and 43 00:01:35,842 --> 00:01:38,410 We've been using for over 350 44 00:01:39,501 --> 00:01:40,398 podcasts and 45 00:01:41,029 --> 00:01:43,343 And by large, it is not let us 46 00:01:43,343 --> 00:01:45,600 down has it... It has been 47 00:01:45,978 --> 00:01:46,217 excellent. 48 00:01:47,734 --> 00:01:48,553 I cannot 49 00:01:49,903 --> 00:01:51,256 You know what's gonna happen now. 50 00:01:53,643 --> 00:01:56,349 Episode. It's gonna die at some stage we've 51 00:01:56,508 --> 00:01:58,656 Monster sales Mark, But, yes, it has been 52 00:01:58,656 --> 00:02:00,769 excellent Well, you know 53 00:02:01,229 --> 00:02:03,229 Well, I was right. We did... I did 54 00:02:03,229 --> 00:02:03,950 want ourselves. 55 00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:07,240 So about the kiss of death. Yes. I 56 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,991 don't know how much of that 57 00:02:09,787 --> 00:02:12,811 we last I'll have to unfortunately go back 58 00:02:12,811 --> 00:02:13,709 through our 59 00:02:14,338 --> 00:02:16,486 I think recording in. I think we lost 60 00:02:16,486 --> 00:02:16,986 about 61 00:02:17,679 --> 00:02:20,702 45 seconds of 1... You've you probably said 62 00:02:20,702 --> 00:02:21,155 the 63 00:02:21,514 --> 00:02:23,834 funniest thing you've said for 350 64 00:02:23,834 --> 00:02:24,875 or 60 episodes. 65 00:02:27,194 --> 00:02:28,955 It looks like I'll be spending in tonight 66 00:02:28,955 --> 00:02:31,685 going through the post production, Mark. But yes. 67 00:02:32,242 --> 00:02:32,719 So 68 00:02:33,116 --> 00:02:33,616 anything 69 00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:36,456 of interest you need 12 was about Was 70 00:02:36,456 --> 00:02:37,252 gonna tell you about... 71 00:02:37,967 --> 00:02:39,974 You know how often head out and 72 00:02:40,534 --> 00:02:43,175 get into the bush in 1 place or 73 00:02:43,175 --> 00:02:44,474 another looking for 74 00:02:44,775 --> 00:02:47,495 some bit of wildlife to point my camera 75 00:02:47,495 --> 00:02:50,473 at I went up to a place near 76 00:02:51,243 --> 00:02:51,639 home, 77 00:02:52,671 --> 00:02:53,489 called Milton 78 00:02:54,259 --> 00:02:54,759 recently. 79 00:02:55,624 --> 00:02:56,104 And 80 00:02:56,503 --> 00:02:57,462 went into, 81 00:02:58,102 --> 00:03:00,839 wind into the bush there. It is a 82 00:03:01,058 --> 00:03:02,577 conservation, but not national Park. 83 00:03:03,296 --> 00:03:05,463 It's a bit of a a spot where 84 00:03:05,463 --> 00:03:08,166 people go and ride their their motor across 85 00:03:08,166 --> 00:03:09,778 bikes on the weekend, and 86 00:03:10,471 --> 00:03:14,222 it's general use scrub sort of country, but 87 00:03:14,222 --> 00:03:14,722 beautiful. 88 00:03:15,495 --> 00:03:17,982 Anyway, the the the the j 89 00:03:18,357 --> 00:03:19,652 position of it sort of 90 00:03:21,394 --> 00:03:22,530 second class 91 00:03:23,382 --> 00:03:26,007 utility to humans, and the fact that I 92 00:03:26,007 --> 00:03:27,223 was able to find 93 00:03:27,694 --> 00:03:30,911 swift pirates and regent honey in the same 94 00:03:31,051 --> 00:03:31,450 tree. 95 00:03:32,889 --> 00:03:33,368 Just 96 00:03:33,768 --> 00:03:35,766 was... It struck me as a bit of 97 00:03:35,766 --> 00:03:37,340 a paradox, brandon that 98 00:03:38,658 --> 00:03:40,675 I can go to a place that's largely 99 00:03:40,974 --> 00:03:41,853 discarded by humans. 100 00:03:42,572 --> 00:03:44,111 An old mine 101 00:03:44,664 --> 00:03:46,685 buffer zone. That's been 102 00:03:47,064 --> 00:03:48,364 handed back to 103 00:03:49,144 --> 00:03:49,965 the community 104 00:03:50,264 --> 00:03:50,764 and 105 00:03:51,144 --> 00:03:51,625 and yet. 106 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,719 Lovely flo out, the spotted gums they were 107 00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:56,860 in flower and 108 00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:00,299 the swift parrot, critically threatened 109 00:04:00,613 --> 00:04:01,649 margaret parrot, 110 00:04:03,162 --> 00:04:03,662 which 111 00:04:04,038 --> 00:04:06,109 breeds into tasmania flies up the East Coast 112 00:04:06,109 --> 00:04:09,157 was there in in small numbers. There they're 113 00:04:09,548 --> 00:04:11,695 probably only about 600 of them left in 114 00:04:11,695 --> 00:04:13,684 the wild, and I got to see about 115 00:04:13,684 --> 00:04:14,479 30 of them, 116 00:04:15,752 --> 00:04:17,661 and the region Honey of course, there's only 117 00:04:17,661 --> 00:04:19,752 a a couple of hundred of those, maybe 118 00:04:19,752 --> 00:04:21,750 even some people think of them as a 119 00:04:21,750 --> 00:04:22,549 zombie species, 120 00:04:23,428 --> 00:04:25,446 mig as well, traveling 121 00:04:25,825 --> 00:04:26,325 across 122 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:27,939 Australia, but 123 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:30,719 not in any set pattern just just looking 124 00:04:30,719 --> 00:04:33,439 for blossom, wherever the gum trees are flowering, 125 00:04:34,094 --> 00:04:35,850 There's a chance you'll find 1 of the 126 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:36,589 200. 127 00:04:36,887 --> 00:04:38,723 Honey it is, but to find them in 128 00:04:38,723 --> 00:04:40,080 the same tree, 129 00:04:40,638 --> 00:04:42,370 crack his sprint, and I was doing back 130 00:04:42,489 --> 00:04:44,000 flips almost damage the camera. 131 00:04:45,511 --> 00:04:46,727 You would have been 132 00:04:47,341 --> 00:04:48,295 sq with delight. 133 00:04:49,090 --> 00:04:49,590 Sq 134 00:04:49,965 --> 00:04:51,411 exactly the word. Yes. 135 00:04:52,124 --> 00:04:54,423 You would scared them off once you once 136 00:04:54,423 --> 00:04:55,771 she noticed so were both there. 137 00:04:57,673 --> 00:04:59,908 Good story, mark. Good story. I haven't got 138 00:04:59,908 --> 00:05:01,573 anything anywhere there as 139 00:05:02,287 --> 00:05:05,061 exciting that. I've just been plugging away as 140 00:05:05,061 --> 00:05:07,458 usual, and I'm I need to get out 141 00:05:07,458 --> 00:05:09,288 more. I know I know I say that 142 00:05:10,481 --> 00:05:11,833 generically, but I need to get out more 143 00:05:11,833 --> 00:05:12,947 with my camera as well. 144 00:05:13,599 --> 00:05:14,099 And 145 00:05:14,476 --> 00:05:16,391 to it. We we need to organize a 146 00:05:16,391 --> 00:05:18,007 trip and do a little bit of 147 00:05:18,863 --> 00:05:21,415 street photography in, in a, in a, city 148 00:05:21,415 --> 00:05:22,293 in Europe, maybe. 149 00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:25,805 Let's lock it in March maybe next year. 150 00:05:26,201 --> 00:05:28,264 We need to we need to 151 00:05:28,899 --> 00:05:31,937 yeah, have an adventure. My must Breaking you're 152 00:05:31,937 --> 00:05:34,512 right. We record on the road. Now 153 00:05:35,050 --> 00:05:37,684 we don't have any specific news topics mark, 154 00:05:38,163 --> 00:05:40,273 so it's gonna be a particularly punchy 155 00:05:40,647 --> 00:05:42,021 episode this 1, and 156 00:05:42,712 --> 00:05:44,801 you have suggested a, 157 00:05:45,572 --> 00:05:47,558 well, a bit of a variation on the 158 00:05:47,558 --> 00:05:49,439 theme. We've spoken about a couple of these 159 00:05:49,559 --> 00:05:50,777 bids before, but, 160 00:05:51,314 --> 00:05:52,511 mark's top tips, 161 00:05:53,149 --> 00:05:55,224 or mark's tip, Doesn't say top tips, and 162 00:05:55,383 --> 00:05:56,875 I presume they are your top tip 163 00:05:58,031 --> 00:06:01,381 concern in dog bite wounds in exotic. 164 00:06:02,019 --> 00:06:02,519 So 165 00:06:03,136 --> 00:06:05,050 Oh, look, I've not... I've seen a couple 166 00:06:05,050 --> 00:06:06,167 of cases lately. 167 00:06:07,217 --> 00:06:09,997 That we're a bit sort of not. You 168 00:06:09,997 --> 00:06:12,697 know, I think all our listeners will be 169 00:06:12,697 --> 00:06:14,706 aware of the general principles 170 00:06:16,455 --> 00:06:19,435 involved in dog x, but there's some interesting 171 00:06:19,735 --> 00:06:22,375 peculiar amongst the species and I thought we 172 00:06:22,375 --> 00:06:22,750 would 173 00:06:23,187 --> 00:06:25,892 We might well touch on some of those. 174 00:06:27,562 --> 00:06:28,539 Excellent. So 175 00:06:30,762 --> 00:06:32,436 knowing you It'll be more. I think you've 176 00:06:32,436 --> 00:06:34,430 listed about 6 or 7 of them, but 177 00:06:34,430 --> 00:06:36,105 often you have a bonus 1 at the 178 00:06:36,105 --> 00:06:37,621 end there. So I'm looking forward to that, 179 00:06:37,780 --> 00:06:38,418 Mark No pressure. 180 00:06:39,057 --> 00:06:39,557 So 181 00:06:40,583 --> 00:06:42,013 Tip number 1 mark, 182 00:06:42,807 --> 00:06:43,681 about anatomy. 183 00:06:44,157 --> 00:06:45,610 I do. I I 184 00:06:46,699 --> 00:06:48,923 Brendan you will well know that anatomy is 185 00:06:48,923 --> 00:06:49,814 my week point. 186 00:06:50,613 --> 00:06:52,312 I went through University and 187 00:06:52,691 --> 00:06:53,431 and paid 188 00:06:54,050 --> 00:06:56,047 just barely enough attention to get a pass 189 00:06:56,047 --> 00:06:58,386 in anatomy and have regretted it ever since 190 00:06:58,445 --> 00:06:58,819 because 191 00:06:59,259 --> 00:07:01,100 it's obviously a topic that's 192 00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:04,639 useful in... Well, almost every aspect of veterinary 193 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:05,100 care. 194 00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:08,475 Surgery during whatnot but in particular, I wanted 195 00:07:08,475 --> 00:07:11,274 to highlight some unusual aspects of an anatomy 196 00:07:11,274 --> 00:07:11,754 to me, 197 00:07:12,955 --> 00:07:14,175 which when 198 00:07:15,050 --> 00:07:17,370 crossed over with a dog attack can make 199 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:18,750 for a very different, 200 00:07:20,009 --> 00:07:22,589 you know, different pathway, a different prognosis 201 00:07:22,970 --> 00:07:23,610 for our patients. 202 00:07:24,260 --> 00:07:26,346 So 1 of the examples I was thinking 203 00:07:26,638 --> 00:07:27,138 of 204 00:07:28,065 --> 00:07:29,119 was the 205 00:07:29,491 --> 00:07:31,180 joint in the upper 206 00:07:31,488 --> 00:07:34,274 beak of birds. And in particular, I've seen 207 00:07:34,274 --> 00:07:36,047 a couple of cases lately where 208 00:07:36,582 --> 00:07:37,082 the 209 00:07:37,776 --> 00:07:39,947 damage occurred at the front 210 00:07:40,481 --> 00:07:41,769 joint. In ducks. 211 00:07:42,484 --> 00:07:45,743 Now, what I... I don't wanna speak for 212 00:07:45,743 --> 00:07:48,286 bits here. But I tend to... Even though 213 00:07:48,366 --> 00:07:49,660 I can see that that 214 00:07:51,002 --> 00:07:53,858 up beak moves relative to the head. 215 00:07:54,414 --> 00:07:56,477 I don't always because, you know, in most 216 00:07:56,477 --> 00:07:58,716 species, we don't think of the upper jaw 217 00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:01,577 is moving independent of the skull. Yes. Sort 218 00:08:01,577 --> 00:08:04,700 of jump to my mind straight away, but 219 00:08:05,327 --> 00:08:06,698 Certainly the front 220 00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:10,185 joint, the joint at, which allows the upper 221 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:11,928 beak to move 222 00:08:12,793 --> 00:08:14,227 it's a little bit of a weak spot 223 00:08:14,227 --> 00:08:14,785 and when, 224 00:08:15,502 --> 00:08:19,088 for example, a dog grabs the a duck 225 00:08:19,088 --> 00:08:19,806 by the bee. 226 00:08:20,939 --> 00:08:21,439 And 227 00:08:22,057 --> 00:08:23,576 you know, bites and gives it a bit 228 00:08:23,576 --> 00:08:26,212 of a shake. The that joint can be 229 00:08:26,212 --> 00:08:27,731 the sight of the damage. 230 00:08:29,024 --> 00:08:32,294 And that's important because very often there'll be 231 00:08:32,294 --> 00:08:33,751 almost trivial damage 232 00:08:34,288 --> 00:08:36,123 ton to the surface of the beak a 233 00:08:36,123 --> 00:08:38,377 few scratches and whatnot on that ke 234 00:08:39,328 --> 00:08:39,828 but 235 00:08:40,207 --> 00:08:41,824 little tears allow 236 00:08:42,362 --> 00:08:44,597 bacteria to get into the wound, 237 00:08:45,555 --> 00:08:48,922 and then that track down into that joint 238 00:08:48,922 --> 00:08:49,422 and 239 00:08:49,798 --> 00:08:52,846 that can be a you know, very serious 240 00:08:52,983 --> 00:08:54,757 and difficult to resolve 241 00:08:55,133 --> 00:08:56,747 complication from these attacks. So 242 00:08:57,058 --> 00:08:59,524 just being aware of stuff like that. I 243 00:08:59,524 --> 00:09:00,717 have seen other cases, Brendan, 244 00:09:01,831 --> 00:09:02,331 chickens, 245 00:09:03,994 --> 00:09:05,747 that have been attacked by maybe a dog 246 00:09:05,747 --> 00:09:06,305 or of Fox. 247 00:09:06,862 --> 00:09:09,115 And when they I have a fairly horrendous 248 00:09:09,412 --> 00:09:12,136 injuries about their head, but Many of these 249 00:09:12,136 --> 00:09:14,309 birds will do well with 250 00:09:15,004 --> 00:09:17,815 you know, when when you follow those general 251 00:09:17,872 --> 00:09:18,372 principal 252 00:09:18,764 --> 00:09:20,698 principles of d providing the 253 00:09:21,074 --> 00:09:23,465 the dead tissue away keeping it clean and 254 00:09:23,465 --> 00:09:23,863 and 255 00:09:25,138 --> 00:09:26,652 and other things that we'll talk about in 256 00:09:26,652 --> 00:09:27,050 a minute. 257 00:09:27,608 --> 00:09:28,108 But 258 00:09:29,928 --> 00:09:32,571 it there there are bones on the skull 259 00:09:32,627 --> 00:09:33,127 and 260 00:09:33,976 --> 00:09:34,476 particularly 261 00:09:35,008 --> 00:09:37,334 around the jaw and the high apparatus 262 00:09:37,962 --> 00:09:41,708 which are critical for swallowing and breathing, 263 00:09:42,584 --> 00:09:45,190 and sometimes when those bones are damaged or 264 00:09:45,309 --> 00:09:47,544 exposed even they might not be damaged, but 265 00:09:47,544 --> 00:09:49,540 they might have muscle torn from them. 266 00:09:50,498 --> 00:09:53,052 There needs to be special steps taken to 267 00:09:53,052 --> 00:09:54,090 ensure that they, 268 00:09:54,424 --> 00:09:58,111 that they don't become dried out and d 269 00:09:58,248 --> 00:10:01,276 and, develop os my and then, 270 00:10:01,833 --> 00:10:03,767 serious problems can develop with 271 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,059 you know, the whole 272 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:07,679 process of breathing and swallowing. 273 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,220 So there are 274 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:10,420 specific 275 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:13,209 atomic problems that we should know about in 276 00:10:13,209 --> 00:10:16,153 species that make the risk of a bite 277 00:10:16,153 --> 00:10:18,381 from a predatory animal much more significant. 278 00:10:19,989 --> 00:10:21,507 You've switched off again Haven't you. 279 00:10:22,626 --> 00:10:23,744 I switched off. 280 00:10:24,303 --> 00:10:25,262 I switched off 281 00:10:26,461 --> 00:10:27,440 physically and 282 00:10:28,791 --> 00:10:29,509 moe tom. 283 00:10:31,263 --> 00:10:32,539 So 1 of the best books... 284 00:10:33,417 --> 00:10:34,214 Great points, there. 285 00:10:34,932 --> 00:10:37,166 1 of the best books on anatomy every 286 00:10:37,166 --> 00:10:39,093 exotic pets, and I know you like this 287 00:10:39,093 --> 00:10:41,723 1 as Z Male book, Bookmark, Mark, on 288 00:10:41,723 --> 00:10:44,193 clinical anatomy and physiology these sort of species. 289 00:10:44,352 --> 00:10:46,118 Do you have that 1? It is a 290 00:10:46,118 --> 00:10:48,921 wonderful textbook. Isn't it. So 291 00:10:49,692 --> 00:10:52,631 I recommend. It's it's I recommend that too 292 00:10:52,631 --> 00:10:53,131 or 293 00:10:54,077 --> 00:10:56,702 everybody who has a interest in unusual and 294 00:10:56,702 --> 00:10:58,054 exotic species mark. 295 00:10:59,009 --> 00:11:00,654 I think it's the only really 296 00:11:01,012 --> 00:11:02,841 1 of its kind anywhere it would... It 297 00:11:02,841 --> 00:11:04,851 has comparative anatomy physiology 298 00:11:05,464 --> 00:11:08,167 of of small mammals, reptile and birds. It 299 00:11:08,167 --> 00:11:08,539 it's 300 00:11:09,059 --> 00:11:11,480 fantastic in the diagrams and and kitchen. 301 00:11:12,339 --> 00:11:15,299 So useful. Yes. So just to share that 302 00:11:15,299 --> 00:11:16,740 to that, That's what made me think of 303 00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:17,720 it, and that's why 304 00:11:18,033 --> 00:11:20,341 hesitating for a official checking might be. Yes. 305 00:11:20,579 --> 00:11:22,887 I was. I'd I'd logged on to to 306 00:11:22,887 --> 00:11:24,160 get the actual name of it. 307 00:11:25,448 --> 00:11:27,460 Correct clinical anatomy and 308 00:11:28,552 --> 00:11:31,020 physiology of exotic species. Now point number 2, 309 00:11:31,179 --> 00:11:31,338 Mark. 310 00:11:32,055 --> 00:11:34,241 Well, 1 of the things that happens with 311 00:11:34,378 --> 00:11:36,630 many of these species, Brendan is the old 312 00:11:37,085 --> 00:11:38,859 preservation reflex that they can have 313 00:11:39,633 --> 00:11:40,133 horrendous 314 00:11:40,509 --> 00:11:43,160 injuries. And they you know, can be concealed 315 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:43,639 or whatever. 316 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:45,100 And 317 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,639 and you don't sort of realize how bad 318 00:11:47,639 --> 00:11:48,040 they are, 319 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:50,712 about almost in invariably 320 00:11:51,089 --> 00:11:53,798 these animals need that have been that have 321 00:11:53,798 --> 00:11:55,892 had interaction with a canine. 322 00:11:57,319 --> 00:12:00,103 They need aggressive multi mobile easier and in 323 00:12:00,103 --> 00:12:02,807 my experience that makes a huge difference to 324 00:12:02,807 --> 00:12:03,546 the pro 325 00:12:03,921 --> 00:12:04,001 outcome. 326 00:12:05,286 --> 00:12:07,983 And there are a a big cohort of 327 00:12:07,983 --> 00:12:08,483 animals 328 00:12:09,015 --> 00:12:09,332 that 329 00:12:09,887 --> 00:12:12,450 of exotic animals that are going to 330 00:12:12,919 --> 00:12:15,397 dive, they don't get adequate pain support, and 331 00:12:15,397 --> 00:12:17,575 that will survive if they do get 332 00:12:19,313 --> 00:12:22,030 appropriate anal or an anti inflammatory care. 333 00:12:22,764 --> 00:12:24,759 And there is that cohort that aren't gonna 334 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:26,754 make it no matter what you do, but 335 00:12:26,754 --> 00:12:27,392 there is, 336 00:12:28,270 --> 00:12:30,266 a difference to be made with aggressive. 337 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:32,858 Multi model anal. 338 00:12:33,556 --> 00:12:35,794 Yep. And I know we're bang on about 339 00:12:35,794 --> 00:12:38,292 it all the time but it is extremely 340 00:12:38,431 --> 00:12:39,390 important. Is it? 341 00:12:40,602 --> 00:12:43,256 Now now next one's an interesting my 342 00:12:44,271 --> 00:12:45,308 look 0.3. 343 00:12:46,425 --> 00:12:48,818 And I mentioned it because I've been guilty 344 00:12:48,818 --> 00:12:49,057 of it. 345 00:12:50,749 --> 00:12:51,468 Myself that 346 00:12:51,947 --> 00:12:52,347 you know, 347 00:12:53,066 --> 00:12:55,484 we might have a particular species 348 00:12:56,102 --> 00:12:58,280 that that we're going to, 349 00:12:58,754 --> 00:13:01,136 you know, and what's a classic example, a 350 00:13:01,136 --> 00:13:01,850 a reptile, 351 00:13:02,644 --> 00:13:05,344 and we would often think about maybe using 352 00:13:05,344 --> 00:13:06,480 something like 353 00:13:07,987 --> 00:13:09,365 1 of the the 354 00:13:10,541 --> 00:13:10,780 full 355 00:13:11,978 --> 00:13:13,037 syphilis forums 356 00:13:13,814 --> 00:13:15,784 as our first sort of 357 00:13:16,464 --> 00:13:17,584 choice of drug, 358 00:13:18,384 --> 00:13:21,184 particularly 1 that has action against gram negatives. 359 00:13:21,424 --> 00:13:23,605 But this situation is 1 where 360 00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:25,695 we're not... We we're not treating 361 00:13:27,029 --> 00:13:28,326 species of animal 362 00:13:29,102 --> 00:13:30,935 with its likely pathogens. So we're treating an 363 00:13:30,935 --> 00:13:33,022 animal that's been attacked by dog and it 364 00:13:33,022 --> 00:13:35,324 has organisms from the dog's mouth. 365 00:13:36,277 --> 00:13:39,158 And so you want to line up your 366 00:13:39,293 --> 00:13:40,190 antibiotic therapy 367 00:13:40,659 --> 00:13:42,654 to treat the bugs that are common in 368 00:13:42,654 --> 00:13:44,271 a dog's mouth. And so 369 00:13:44,729 --> 00:13:46,266 the potent mo 370 00:13:46,644 --> 00:13:49,294 and mat are, sort of the the drugs 371 00:13:49,294 --> 00:13:51,294 that you always want to use and use 372 00:13:51,294 --> 00:13:53,934 them at dose rate that's appropriate for the 373 00:13:53,934 --> 00:13:56,095 species that you're treating at course. But Yes. 374 00:13:56,575 --> 00:13:59,542 You're treating the the bugs in a dog's 375 00:13:59,542 --> 00:14:01,534 mouth that get into those wounds, 376 00:14:02,012 --> 00:14:03,923 and that's always an important thing to look 377 00:14:03,923 --> 00:14:06,972 at when you're prescribing antibiotics for these 378 00:14:08,076 --> 00:14:10,059 animals have have have had a a run 379 00:14:10,059 --> 00:14:11,328 with a dog. Yes. 380 00:14:13,073 --> 00:14:14,128 Now and 381 00:14:15,468 --> 00:14:16,524 Yeah. You're sort 382 00:14:16,978 --> 00:14:18,726 touched on for a little bit, but yes. 383 00:14:19,282 --> 00:14:21,745 I'm gonna I'm gonna crystallize it just quickly. 384 00:14:22,063 --> 00:14:23,834 Yes. I think that 385 00:14:24,541 --> 00:14:27,503 my experience is that I'm never 386 00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:31,452 sufficiently aggressive with my department. I tend to 387 00:14:31,452 --> 00:14:32,429 be a little bit 388 00:14:33,299 --> 00:14:35,379 gentle, and then it's something that I've got 389 00:14:35,379 --> 00:14:36,740 go back in. And, of course, 390 00:14:37,539 --> 00:14:40,019 the presence of nec acrylic tissue in the 391 00:14:40,019 --> 00:14:43,069 wound makes it much more likely that bacteria 392 00:14:43,069 --> 00:14:44,578 gonna build up to large numbers, 393 00:14:45,213 --> 00:14:47,063 and they add to that, 394 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:50,852 pain load that the animal is going to 395 00:14:50,852 --> 00:14:51,749 deal with. So 396 00:14:52,139 --> 00:14:52,639 early 397 00:14:53,336 --> 00:14:53,836 extensive, 398 00:14:54,933 --> 00:14:57,987 assessment of nec tissue and having that nec 399 00:14:58,285 --> 00:15:00,041 tissue aggressively deb divided, 400 00:15:01,253 --> 00:15:02,210 is really important. 401 00:15:02,848 --> 00:15:03,746 And I think 402 00:15:04,124 --> 00:15:05,102 that extends 403 00:15:06,118 --> 00:15:08,032 to 2 other quick points. The first 1 404 00:15:08,032 --> 00:15:09,787 is don't stop, you know, 405 00:15:11,876 --> 00:15:14,270 take all the nec tissue. Make sure you 406 00:15:14,270 --> 00:15:17,164 protect the bone, cover it somehow either with 407 00:15:18,020 --> 00:15:20,850 a flap of, viable tissue or 408 00:15:21,307 --> 00:15:24,340 with 1 of the the, moist wound gels. 409 00:15:25,139 --> 00:15:26,575 But if you've got dead bone, 410 00:15:27,148 --> 00:15:28,736 that has to come out because it's not 411 00:15:28,736 --> 00:15:29,531 going to, 412 00:15:30,007 --> 00:15:30,507 revitalize. 413 00:15:31,914 --> 00:15:34,399 And that might well be... I was talking 414 00:15:34,456 --> 00:15:37,573 before about the high apparatus in in 415 00:15:38,052 --> 00:15:40,367 in some chickens that I've seen in dog 416 00:15:40,367 --> 00:15:42,443 attacks. Now if that's significantly damaged, 417 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,657 and you have nec 418 00:15:46,849 --> 00:15:49,886 bone there, d bone, then that's, 419 00:15:50,525 --> 00:15:51,964 an indication to, 420 00:15:52,443 --> 00:15:54,601 think about quality of life issues and maybe 421 00:15:54,601 --> 00:15:57,254 not go any further Brendan But to grade 422 00:15:57,254 --> 00:15:58,695 the to bride the tissues, 423 00:15:59,735 --> 00:16:02,375 particularly those acrylic tissues aggressively and early. 424 00:16:03,575 --> 00:16:04,634 To bride the 425 00:16:05,669 --> 00:16:06,941 deep thought out of it man. 426 00:16:08,055 --> 00:16:10,282 Smelly stuff pride to pride. 427 00:16:11,077 --> 00:16:13,248 I think we should make some bit guru 428 00:16:14,835 --> 00:16:15,335 merchandise 429 00:16:15,715 --> 00:16:17,795 pride in at somewhere. Yes. 430 00:16:18,995 --> 00:16:20,195 I don't know how well it was self, 431 00:16:20,355 --> 00:16:20,855 but 432 00:16:22,115 --> 00:16:22,915 number 5 mark. 433 00:16:23,807 --> 00:16:25,235 Look, I like... 434 00:16:25,791 --> 00:16:27,299 I sort of I suppose I feel like 435 00:16:27,379 --> 00:16:29,442 I'm repeating myself. This refers back a little 436 00:16:29,442 --> 00:16:31,212 bit to the anatomy. 437 00:16:32,633 --> 00:16:35,576 1 of the things that happens, particularly with 438 00:16:35,576 --> 00:16:37,826 a lot of lizards, blue tongue lizards in, 439 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,337 1 of my 440 00:16:39,808 --> 00:16:40,766 examples of this. 441 00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:46,910 The structures of the skull of lizards mean 442 00:16:46,910 --> 00:16:49,409 that if you have a fracture, 443 00:16:50,256 --> 00:16:52,951 it's very difficult for that fracture, not to 444 00:16:52,951 --> 00:16:54,457 extend to the cra vault. 445 00:16:55,429 --> 00:16:57,346 So if you see a crack in the 446 00:16:57,346 --> 00:16:59,343 roof of the mouth of a blue tongue 447 00:16:59,343 --> 00:17:01,841 blizzard, it's very, very likely that 448 00:17:02,474 --> 00:17:03,192 that that 449 00:17:03,830 --> 00:17:05,446 the the way those bones 450 00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:09,493 interact around the lizard head, if there's a 451 00:17:09,493 --> 00:17:11,827 fracture, it's very likely that 452 00:17:12,458 --> 00:17:14,527 that there's been damage to the bones of 453 00:17:14,527 --> 00:17:17,311 the cra volt then the the there's gonna 454 00:17:17,311 --> 00:17:19,275 be damage to the brain itself 455 00:17:19,792 --> 00:17:20,292 and 456 00:17:20,748 --> 00:17:22,603 oftentimes that allows 457 00:17:23,138 --> 00:17:24,196 a slow 458 00:17:25,369 --> 00:17:26,347 ingress of 459 00:17:27,217 --> 00:17:30,487 bacteria to follow that wound up into the 460 00:17:30,487 --> 00:17:31,385 cra. So 461 00:17:31,842 --> 00:17:35,452 even relatively modest wounds need to be investigated 462 00:17:36,164 --> 00:17:39,041 very aggressively in those lizards and quality of 463 00:17:39,041 --> 00:17:40,879 life concerns come into play. 464 00:17:41,758 --> 00:17:43,755 So knowing that that's for risk with those 465 00:17:43,755 --> 00:17:46,079 guys might help you to make a decision 466 00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:47,192 relatively early. 467 00:17:47,748 --> 00:17:49,338 The other 1 I was talking about with 468 00:17:49,338 --> 00:17:50,292 chickens and 469 00:17:50,928 --> 00:17:53,805 and ducks is that those injuries around their 470 00:17:53,805 --> 00:17:56,509 head, they may heal up very, very well, 471 00:17:56,668 --> 00:17:58,895 But if there is some nerve or bone 472 00:17:58,895 --> 00:18:00,508 damage to the 473 00:18:01,690 --> 00:18:05,019 structures like the high or hypo bro apparatus, 474 00:18:06,446 --> 00:18:06,946 then 475 00:18:07,874 --> 00:18:10,750 appropriate swallowing and separating of the airways from 476 00:18:10,750 --> 00:18:13,851 the esophagus might not occur. And aspiration pneumonia 477 00:18:13,851 --> 00:18:14,669 can be a 478 00:18:15,044 --> 00:18:17,761 slow and steady long term quell from some 479 00:18:17,761 --> 00:18:19,985 of these injuries, and they might lead to, 480 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:22,049 you know, there might be a decision, 481 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,623 6 to 12 weeks after the recovery. 482 00:18:26,595 --> 00:18:30,274 That suggests the, you know, the the aspiration 483 00:18:30,274 --> 00:18:32,134 pneumonia is resulting from 484 00:18:32,514 --> 00:18:32,755 some, 485 00:18:33,648 --> 00:18:35,259 fault with the neural 486 00:18:36,028 --> 00:18:38,488 organization of swallowing. So just being aware of 487 00:18:38,488 --> 00:18:39,361 these times, 488 00:18:40,313 --> 00:18:41,521 these species, 489 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:42,420 specific 490 00:18:42,797 --> 00:18:43,514 potential problems. 491 00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:46,382 They might help you make those quality of 492 00:18:46,382 --> 00:18:48,056 life decisions a little bit earlier. 493 00:18:48,866 --> 00:18:50,933 Yes. And unfortunately, a lot of the time 494 00:18:50,933 --> 00:18:52,228 we are making that 495 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,543 decision to call it quits with the We've 496 00:18:55,543 --> 00:18:57,235 mark so it's important that we 497 00:18:58,344 --> 00:18:58,844 understand 498 00:18:59,222 --> 00:19:01,140 by the anatomy and some of these 499 00:19:02,099 --> 00:19:03,078 specifics of 500 00:19:03,697 --> 00:19:05,829 these wounds mark in order to make that 501 00:19:06,028 --> 00:19:09,040 session. What's number 6 of mark's top tips 502 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,260 concerning dog boat winston is exotic. 503 00:19:12,687 --> 00:19:14,689 Well not my Tip number 6 is to 504 00:19:14,689 --> 00:19:17,157 not forget the nervous system because I really 505 00:19:17,157 --> 00:19:19,728 do my myself tend to focus on those 506 00:19:20,103 --> 00:19:21,320 mu sc 507 00:19:22,429 --> 00:19:25,166 injuries, the traumas to the skin, the lace, 508 00:19:25,625 --> 00:19:26,125 the 509 00:19:26,504 --> 00:19:27,643 traumatic, the physically 510 00:19:28,022 --> 00:19:28,342 traumatic, 511 00:19:30,353 --> 00:19:32,505 structural injuries, I suppose you would call them. 512 00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:37,307 But obviously, the nerves pass through those tissues 513 00:19:37,858 --> 00:19:41,118 and the structures of the eye and various 514 00:19:41,118 --> 00:19:42,731 other nervous pathways 515 00:19:43,345 --> 00:19:46,287 can be damaged by the trauma associated with 516 00:19:46,287 --> 00:19:47,241 an attack from a dog. 517 00:19:48,292 --> 00:19:50,845 And so... And they may be very, very 518 00:19:50,845 --> 00:19:53,078 much more difficult as I alluded to with 519 00:19:53,078 --> 00:19:55,471 the swallowing problem They may may be much 520 00:19:55,471 --> 00:19:56,906 more difficult to resolve. 521 00:19:57,719 --> 00:19:59,868 And I've made the mistake a couple of 522 00:19:59,868 --> 00:20:03,075 times of not making sufficiently detailed op 523 00:20:04,326 --> 00:20:05,384 examinations of these, 524 00:20:06,569 --> 00:20:09,985 exotic patients not realizing that they have some 525 00:20:09,985 --> 00:20:12,368 significant damage to their vision. 526 00:20:13,257 --> 00:20:15,167 And of course, if they wildlife that will, 527 00:20:16,837 --> 00:20:18,985 mitigate against a successful recovery. 528 00:20:19,701 --> 00:20:21,624 So just making sure that you don't just 529 00:20:21,624 --> 00:20:25,201 focus on the obvious lesions, the con conclusions, 530 00:20:26,075 --> 00:20:26,871 and you always, 531 00:20:27,665 --> 00:20:29,278 pay attention to the neurologic 532 00:20:29,588 --> 00:20:33,077 structures and reflex as well in the period 533 00:20:33,077 --> 00:20:35,163 immediately when after the animals 534 00:20:35,535 --> 00:20:36,249 presented to you. 535 00:20:37,851 --> 00:20:38,726 Well, said, 536 00:20:39,442 --> 00:20:39,680 now, 537 00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:42,384 number 7, the last 1 or maybe you 538 00:20:42,384 --> 00:20:44,054 have a... You have that little bonus 1 539 00:20:44,054 --> 00:20:45,724 at the end but what's the... What's the 540 00:20:45,724 --> 00:20:46,917 last comment about? 541 00:20:48,045 --> 00:20:49,556 I went in Exotic spark. 542 00:20:50,351 --> 00:20:52,101 Well, I this one's a little bit of 543 00:20:52,101 --> 00:20:52,601 a 544 00:20:53,055 --> 00:20:55,305 promo extends beyond exotic, but 545 00:20:55,934 --> 00:20:58,575 many animals will often have, 546 00:20:59,615 --> 00:21:00,115 very 547 00:21:00,414 --> 00:21:02,515 little in the way of out out 548 00:21:03,055 --> 00:21:05,728 external signs. So many of the animals, 549 00:21:06,342 --> 00:21:08,195 like possum or kangaroo 550 00:21:09,446 --> 00:21:11,834 that would have an interaction with a dog 551 00:21:11,834 --> 00:21:14,483 may actually present with very, very 552 00:21:15,752 --> 00:21:18,307 modest or even difficult to find lesions on 553 00:21:18,307 --> 00:21:19,026 the outside. 554 00:21:19,585 --> 00:21:21,980 But just as a dog attack on another 555 00:21:21,980 --> 00:21:24,156 dog will lead to significant 556 00:21:24,628 --> 00:21:28,127 trauma to the underlying tissues. The same thing 557 00:21:28,127 --> 00:21:29,162 can happen to 558 00:21:30,036 --> 00:21:30,355 to 559 00:21:31,230 --> 00:21:32,763 to our, wildlife 560 00:21:33,232 --> 00:21:36,805 and and you know, rabbit, similarly the skin 561 00:21:36,805 --> 00:21:37,781 slides over 562 00:21:38,313 --> 00:21:40,139 the surface of the animal and there can 563 00:21:40,139 --> 00:21:40,639 be 564 00:21:41,346 --> 00:21:44,209 significant damage while the skin itself actually does 565 00:21:44,209 --> 00:21:45,084 look too bad. 566 00:21:45,721 --> 00:21:46,857 1 of the other consequences 567 00:21:47,311 --> 00:21:50,029 of this sort of injury is that animals 568 00:21:50,029 --> 00:21:52,568 like possum who don't do so well with 569 00:21:52,568 --> 00:21:55,186 the bugs from, the males of cats and 570 00:21:55,186 --> 00:21:55,424 dogs. 571 00:21:56,949 --> 00:21:59,976 They they may, you know, that may may 572 00:21:59,976 --> 00:22:02,446 as soon as you realize that there's these 573 00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:05,336 tiny pun joins from 1 of the predatory 574 00:22:05,633 --> 00:22:06,452 companion animals 575 00:22:06,764 --> 00:22:08,917 it's probably a good time to pull up 576 00:22:08,917 --> 00:22:10,513 dumps all altogether isn't it brendan. 577 00:22:11,868 --> 00:22:12,108 Well, 578 00:22:12,985 --> 00:22:15,559 not much happy thoughts. You've given me this 579 00:22:15,617 --> 00:22:16,549 episode mark, but 580 00:22:17,066 --> 00:22:17,566 some 581 00:22:18,020 --> 00:22:18,520 excellent 582 00:22:18,975 --> 00:22:20,349 excellent tips about 583 00:22:21,042 --> 00:22:23,268 how to deal and or say I suppose 584 00:22:23,268 --> 00:22:25,097 a better better phrase. 585 00:22:27,099 --> 00:22:29,803 Dealing with these dog bike wins mark and 586 00:22:29,803 --> 00:22:30,122 exotic. 587 00:22:31,155 --> 00:22:31,394 Now, 588 00:22:32,269 --> 00:22:33,779 what made you think of this topic? 589 00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:38,029 Oh, it's just a couple of. Big. It's... 590 00:22:38,269 --> 00:22:40,190 It it is... It's an interesting thing to 591 00:22:40,190 --> 00:22:41,765 talk about how we come up with 592 00:22:42,439 --> 00:22:42,756 Now, 593 00:22:43,549 --> 00:22:46,247 hell is for. And and there's a couple 594 00:22:46,247 --> 00:22:47,357 of that there's a little bit of a 595 00:22:47,357 --> 00:22:48,333 pattern isn't it 596 00:22:49,038 --> 00:22:49,515 Certainly, 597 00:22:50,071 --> 00:22:52,694 we re every bit of communication we get 598 00:22:52,694 --> 00:22:54,919 from our wonderful listeners and we'll often follow 599 00:22:54,919 --> 00:22:57,223 ups zealous on topics that are sent to 600 00:22:57,223 --> 00:22:57,723 us 601 00:22:58,114 --> 00:22:59,472 if you have something you want Brendan and 602 00:22:59,552 --> 00:23:00,271 I talk about, 603 00:23:01,549 --> 00:23:04,186 get on to the the computer, send us 604 00:23:04,186 --> 00:23:04,745 an email, 605 00:23:05,477 --> 00:23:06,906 and we'd love to have a chat about 606 00:23:06,906 --> 00:23:09,369 the things that really interest you and exotic 607 00:23:09,369 --> 00:23:12,784 veterinary practice. Yeah. But of most often, I 608 00:23:12,784 --> 00:23:14,955 would say it's cases that you've recently seen. 609 00:23:15,115 --> 00:23:18,315 You you'll have AAI 610 00:23:18,315 --> 00:23:19,914 don't know often it's a case that's a 611 00:23:19,914 --> 00:23:20,815 little bit problematic 612 00:23:21,130 --> 00:23:22,650 and so it sits in my mind for 613 00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:24,490 a while. And by the time we get 614 00:23:24,490 --> 00:23:26,490 a resolution. I'm thinking oh, This is something 615 00:23:26,570 --> 00:23:28,170 I should talk to Brendan about. 616 00:23:28,983 --> 00:23:31,136 So, yeah, just a couple of cases that 617 00:23:31,136 --> 00:23:31,774 made me think. 618 00:23:32,731 --> 00:23:34,087 You know what? We should have a talk 619 00:23:34,087 --> 00:23:35,603 about these sorts of injuries. 620 00:23:36,241 --> 00:23:37,538 Yes. And 621 00:23:38,729 --> 00:23:40,724 you took the bait their mark. I was 622 00:23:40,724 --> 00:23:42,501 what in you youtube mention 623 00:23:42,879 --> 00:23:45,694 that we like listeners to send as a, 624 00:23:45,912 --> 00:23:47,783 a potential topic or a 625 00:23:48,317 --> 00:23:49,533 or or an item 626 00:23:49,987 --> 00:23:52,453 that they've experienced that we... They want us 627 00:23:52,453 --> 00:23:53,828 to chat about 628 00:23:54,299 --> 00:23:56,452 or maybe you could even send in your 629 00:23:56,452 --> 00:23:59,322 own top tips about 1 particular subject. 630 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,113 So feel free to do that. We'd love 631 00:24:02,113 --> 00:24:04,601 getting email from our listeners is my fat 632 00:24:04,601 --> 00:24:06,674 guru at g dot com. 633 00:24:07,472 --> 00:24:09,966 Is the place to go the email to 634 00:24:10,343 --> 00:24:12,678 the inter webs to send a to and 635 00:24:13,786 --> 00:24:16,408 We love our listeners. Don't we mark? 636 00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:19,904 Indeed, we do, we look forward to their 637 00:24:19,904 --> 00:24:20,404 correspondence. 638 00:24:22,304 --> 00:24:24,698 And mister Art is kicking us out. So 639 00:24:24,698 --> 00:24:26,055 we better get out of here. We'll talk 640 00:24:26,055 --> 00:24:27,652 to you all next week. Thanks for listening. 641 00:24:32,851 --> 00:24:35,082 Thanks for listening to the Vet podcast by 642 00:24:35,082 --> 00:24:35,959 the Vet guru. 643 00:24:36,437 --> 00:24:37,951 Don't forget to visit us at the website. 644 00:24:38,110 --> 00:24:40,922 Vet guru dot com where you can subscribe, 645 00:24:41,241 --> 00:24:44,039 view show notes, listen to previous episodes and 646 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:46,516 more. You can contact us via email and 647 00:24:46,516 --> 00:24:49,007 vet guru at gmail dot com to ask 648 00:24:49,007 --> 00:24:51,320 a question or just say hi. Thanks again, 649 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:52,596 and see you next time.