WEBVTT 00:00:15.823 --> 00:00:16.826 And welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.826 --> 00:00:21.477 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network brought to you by HK. 00:00:22.232 --> 00:00:26.246 Today is Friday, June 5th, 2026, as of the recording of this live episode. 00:00:26.246 --> 00:00:28.200 And I am your host, Riley Bowman. 00:00:28.989 --> 00:00:33.238 And of course, joined by Jacob Paulson. 00:00:36.664 --> 00:00:37.239 Here i am 00:00:37.628 --> 00:00:41.918 Okay he's yeah i was like i'm starting to wonder is he here is he not here i don't know. 00:00:42.411 --> 00:00:43.253 All right he's here 00:00:45.209 --> 00:00:50.537 Well we're glad to be with you all today this month or this episode is our what 00:00:50.537 --> 00:00:55.391 we'd like to get back into the habit of doing our monthly justified saves episode uh, 00:00:56.307 --> 00:01:01.347 so we've got a bunch of great justified save stories this is what we refer to 00:01:01.347 --> 00:01:06.587 as We use justified saves to mean defensive gun uses, DGUs, for those that are 00:01:06.587 --> 00:01:08.091 more familiar with that terminology. 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:15.997 These are typically civilian-oriented or based instances of defensive gun uses. 00:01:17.193 --> 00:01:21.500 We try to pick the ones that we feel meet a justifiable standard. 00:01:22.267 --> 00:01:27.497 And sometimes we talk about ones that maybe are less than justified in what 00:01:27.497 --> 00:01:32.687 not to do. We got a story today that we'll share that's kind of interesting in that category. 00:01:33.567 --> 00:01:38.157 Actually, several stories today seem to follow a little bit of a trend, 00:01:38.157 --> 00:01:40.317 Jacob. I don't know if you picked up on this, but... 00:01:40.667 --> 00:01:42.120 A little third-party involvement. 00:01:42.567 --> 00:01:47.577 Yeah, kind of interesting because we don't... Like most of our Justified Safe 00:01:47.577 --> 00:01:54.287 stories for sure are first-party, you know, involved individuals, 00:01:54.287 --> 00:01:56.967 like defending themselves, defending their, I mean, 00:01:57.607 --> 00:02:00.497 defending their family, which you could say is third party, but usually it means 00:02:00.497 --> 00:02:04.880 you're defending yourself and your family, defending the occupants of a home. 00:02:05.176 --> 00:02:08.637 And then we have certainly some of that today, but we have a couple of instances 00:02:08.637 --> 00:02:11.997 today of people getting involved in other people's problems. 00:02:12.473 --> 00:02:18.405 And I think that is interesting and certainly brings some lessons to be learned to the discussion. 00:02:19.671 --> 00:02:24.652 So today's episode, by the way, is sponsored, brought to you by CCW Save. 00:02:25.540 --> 00:02:29.410 They have been a wonderful supporter of the podcast for a number of years now. 00:02:29.410 --> 00:02:36.290 And specifically, they sponsor this Justified Saves episode when we have these 00:02:36.290 --> 00:02:38.531 episodes. So we appreciate their support. 00:02:38.798 --> 00:02:44.370 I'll tell you, it comes into part of this episode today, the importance of having 00:02:44.370 --> 00:02:47.570 good legal defense to back you up. 00:02:47.570 --> 00:02:52.098 Because we're going to also go back a couple of years and provide an update, 00:02:52.661 --> 00:02:54.560 on a story that we talked about. 00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:57.780 I remember a few years ago, I don't know if it was you and me, 00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:05.160 Jacob, or me and Matthew, but there's a story out of South Carolina that has been going through. 00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:10.358 A court process, through the court process, through a defense trial. 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:14.979 And that was resolved this last week or so ago. 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:24.447 And it was resolved favorably in that person's situation, but we'll talk about what it really means for, 00:03:25.428 --> 00:03:29.600 concealed carriers and why you wanna make sure you have the best legal protection 00:03:29.600 --> 00:03:31.981 out there, which we believe is CCWsafe. 00:03:32.405 --> 00:03:35.018 CCWsafe.com, of course, is their website. 00:03:35.673 --> 00:03:39.058 And I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to add to that, Jacob? 00:03:40.496 --> 00:03:43.056 Well, it's going to be an interesting conversation, you know, 00:03:43.056 --> 00:03:48.630 with Mr. Chow's scenario there, but yeah, CCW Safe, kicking butt, taking names. 00:03:49.025 --> 00:03:52.616 Yeah, absolutely. And Guardian Nation members, save, you know, 00:03:52.616 --> 00:03:53.876 there's an opportunity for a discount there. 00:03:53.876 --> 00:04:00.134 You can log in to your now redesigned, improved, cleaner, easier to navigate 00:04:00.442 --> 00:04:05.771 Guardian Nation member dashboard, and you can find the CCW Safe discount, 00:04:06.436 --> 00:04:10.177 opportunity that exists there for GN members. So take advantage of that. 00:04:10.711 --> 00:04:15.535 Also, today's episode sponsored by HK, our title sponsor the podcast. 00:04:16.458 --> 00:04:20.673 And they are sponsoring this episode today as well. Today's defenders, 00:04:21.764 --> 00:04:25.246 well, as far as we know, carried quality tools, at least carried good enough 00:04:25.246 --> 00:04:28.556 tools that work. But we think it's important you carry the best tools. 00:04:28.979 --> 00:04:35.255 And so we put our lives and our trust in HK and HK USA's products. 00:04:35.956 --> 00:04:41.826 HK USA is the US based operation. And of course, they make the new HK CC nine 00:04:41.826 --> 00:04:47.756 right here in the good old USF a and and even the guns that come of course, 00:04:47.756 --> 00:04:49.616 out of Germany are fantastic guns. 00:04:49.616 --> 00:04:56.056 I've been, you know, rocking with the VP nine a one series pistols for a while 00:04:56.056 --> 00:04:57.545 now. And I think they're fantastic. 00:04:57.754 --> 00:05:01.656 And the CC nine is a great choice for a compact option as well. 00:05:01.656 --> 00:05:04.371 What have you been carrying lately, jacob cc9 i think. 00:05:04.615 --> 00:05:07.802 Cc9 yeah almost exclusively for many months 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.929 Yeah it's a great gun fantastic gun so, 00:05:12.452 --> 00:05:16.886 guys check out hk and support our sponsors and support us to make us bringing 00:05:16.886 --> 00:05:24.323 this content to you possible you can go to hk-usa.com for the website and uh yep thanks for, 00:05:24.898 --> 00:05:29.867 doing that so that we can keep rocking here with the quality content on the podcast. 00:05:31.834 --> 00:05:38.854 Well, Jacob, we've got up first. We typically like to cover our what not to do's and who stories. 00:05:39.782 --> 00:05:44.542 This is definitely, there's some things here that, lessons to be learned as 00:05:44.542 --> 00:05:49.002 to why we caution people getting involved in other people's problems. 00:05:49.002 --> 00:05:53.779 And that's kind of the highlight here of our what not to do. 00:05:54.742 --> 00:06:01.645 So a story out of Hazel Park, Michigan reported on clickondetroit.com. 00:06:02.272 --> 00:06:05.922 Apparently hazel park i presume is like a suburb or a part of, 00:06:07.142 --> 00:06:12.024 uh the detroit area i don't know for sure but that's that's how i see this, 00:06:13.110 --> 00:06:20.322 so anyway we had a after prom party taking place there uh and unfortunately 00:06:20.322 --> 00:06:25.997 the end result of that party was a 20 year old man dead and a 19-year-old woman, 00:06:27.542 --> 00:06:29.503 injured, presumably seriously. 00:06:31.102 --> 00:06:35.671 This is kind of an interesting situation. We had multiple witnesses involved. 00:06:36.072 --> 00:06:40.022 Of course, it's a party, so that's to be expected. We got a number of people 00:06:40.022 --> 00:06:41.749 there, and there's multiple witnesses. 00:06:42.092 --> 00:06:47.583 They said the shooting occurred in response to an alleged armed robbery of a wristwatch. 00:06:48.657 --> 00:06:52.367 That seems kind of unusual in today's world, Jacob. I don't hear very often 00:06:52.367 --> 00:06:55.587 about like, hey, man, nice watch. Like, give me your watch. I mean, 00:06:55.587 --> 00:07:01.567 I know it happens. It's just to hear that like as like the central like starting 00:07:01.567 --> 00:07:03.309 point of this story is kind of interesting. 00:07:04.186 --> 00:07:07.517 I think everything about this is weird. I mean, to add some more context, 00:07:07.517 --> 00:07:11.064 this is an after prom party. Now, prom is a high school event. 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:13.907 It could be junior prom, senior prom, doesn't really matter. 00:07:13.907 --> 00:07:18.397 But you don't have a lot of 20-year-olds, 21-year-olds, and 19-year-olds that 00:07:18.397 --> 00:07:19.267 are still in high school. 00:07:20.047 --> 00:07:23.841 And only people mentioned in this news story are 19 or older. 00:07:24.787 --> 00:07:28.977 So this is already a little bit like – and this is at an Airbnb. 00:07:28.977 --> 00:07:30.347 This is at a short-term rental. 00:07:30.893 --> 00:07:35.386 And so this is not even at someone's house where there's parents involved. 00:07:36.047 --> 00:07:37.940 The whole thing is dicey and questionable. 00:07:38.532 --> 00:07:43.697 Yeah, it is. And although I feel like you're being a little bit judgy because, 00:07:43.697 --> 00:07:47.147 you know, maybe these kids were all a little slow to, you know, 00:07:47.147 --> 00:07:51.153 graduate high school, you know, they got held back a few years, you know? 00:07:51.887 --> 00:07:56.023 Maybe, maybe, you know, that could explain some of the judgment we see here. I mean, who am I to say? 00:07:56.847 --> 00:08:01.827 But, you know, it's the point is like, this is not a bunch of 16 year olds. 00:08:01.827 --> 00:08:04.857 These are the people involved in this incident. I don't know who all was there 00:08:04.857 --> 00:08:11.220 at the after prom party, but the people involved directly in what happened are all very much so adults. 00:08:11.580 --> 00:08:15.707 Yeah, yeah. So you got this 20-year-old, and it's interesting, 00:08:15.707 --> 00:08:23.022 Jacob, because it consistently in the story refers to the 20-year-old as the victim. 00:08:23.248 --> 00:08:29.418 However, they are the one that perpetrated the robbery of the wristwatch. 00:08:30.300 --> 00:08:35.600 Okay, so the story basically goes, according to witness statements, that this 20-year-old, 00:08:36.721 --> 00:08:40.808 Attempts to rob somebody. I don't even know who that is. Of the wristwatch. 00:08:42.262 --> 00:08:49.481 And the third party, the shooter in this case, it just says that he was a witness to the robbery. 00:08:49.928 --> 00:08:52.209 So he's apparently not the one being robbed. 00:08:52.691 --> 00:08:55.193 But he sees the robbery taking place. 00:08:55.773 --> 00:08:57.811 Worth clarifying, it's an armed robbery. 00:08:58.484 --> 00:09:01.542 Right, right, right. Armed robbery. And I think I did say that earlier. 00:09:01.542 --> 00:09:05.992 But yeah, armed robbery. So armed robbery, wristwatch, 20-year-old. 00:09:05.992 --> 00:09:11.402 Okay, so third party individual witnessing this chooses to engage and does say 00:09:11.402 --> 00:09:14.140 that this person had a concealed pistol license. 00:09:16.457 --> 00:09:19.822 And that person gets involved and shoots the 20-year-old. 00:09:19.822 --> 00:09:22.002 I mean, of course, we know the outcome of that is he's dead. 00:09:22.002 --> 00:09:27.532 Now, you may be thinking like, okay, I mean, like what's the big to do here? 00:09:27.532 --> 00:09:32.722 I mean, like 20 year old guy, armed robberies, you know, you know, 00:09:33.301 --> 00:09:36.436 arm robs a person of their property. 00:09:36.959 --> 00:09:41.196 Other dude shoots the armed robber. And like, what's the big to do here? 00:09:43.199 --> 00:09:44.940 Is interestingly enough. 00:09:46.471 --> 00:09:49.861 I saw another story, too, somewhere. I don't know where that actually ended 00:09:49.861 --> 00:09:51.638 up. I think there was a source here. 00:09:52.172 --> 00:09:55.831 But the point is, there's an ongoing investigation here. It does say to the 00:09:55.831 --> 00:10:00.241 person, it's unsure if he's going to face charges related to the incident. 00:10:00.996 --> 00:10:06.671 But um the the question here or the really what we're trying to pose to you 00:10:06.671 --> 00:10:12.421 is be careful getting involved in other people's problems because the other 00:10:12.421 --> 00:10:14.171 source i was thinking of jacob that, 00:10:15.051 --> 00:10:20.507 i don't have here for whatever reason is it was basically talking about how 00:10:20.727 --> 00:10:25.852 it was unclear to some of the observers who the actual bad guy was, 00:10:26.647 --> 00:10:30.301 so you got other witnesses that were basically calling into question like, 00:10:30.301 --> 00:10:33.712 well, we're not really sure who, you know, like it was unclear to people. 00:10:34.089 --> 00:10:38.001 And that was kind of the point that I took from this was you're a third party 00:10:38.001 --> 00:10:42.251 observer and you don't maybe always know who the initial aggressor is or who 00:10:42.251 --> 00:10:46.251 the actual bad guy is or if this person with a gun is the armed robber or he's 00:10:46.251 --> 00:10:48.601 a person that's responding to a robbery himself. 00:10:48.601 --> 00:10:51.311 And now you're observing that and, but you're, you know, you see what I mean? 00:10:51.311 --> 00:10:52.967 Like it can get messy really fast. 00:10:55.531 --> 00:10:58.761 There's some interesting language in the news story and sometimes you know we 00:10:58.761 --> 00:11:02.241 split hairs over these things because the objective here is not to perfectly 00:11:02.241 --> 00:11:04.095 nail down what happened the objective here 00:11:04.507 --> 00:11:08.541 is to try and learn some things and grow as concealed carriers and use this 00:11:08.541 --> 00:11:15.043 as a back of like a backdrop for the conversation so but that said like the exact wording used is um 00:11:15.991 --> 00:11:19.490 the shooter who police say had a valid concealed pistol license shot the victim 00:11:19.890 --> 00:11:26.151 after witnessing the robbery occur so that's very interesting because that would 00:11:26.802 --> 00:11:30.651 if we take this at a very literal level and trust the journalist all questionable 00:11:31.671 --> 00:11:36.501 but that would suggest that the robbery happened and then the robbery was over, 00:11:36.501 --> 00:11:43.009 not happening and then our good guy with the gun decided to shoot the bad guy 00:11:43.404 --> 00:11:45.413 who had robbed the person of a watch yeah, 00:11:46.016 --> 00:11:47.871 That's a great point yeah. 00:11:47.871 --> 00:11:54.491 The timing is suggestive of being I'll call it criminal action Like I don't 00:11:54.491 --> 00:11:59.745 think it's legally justified to observe an armed robbery take place. 00:12:00.262 --> 00:12:04.341 And then when it's over and done to say, I'm going to go shoot that guy who 00:12:04.341 --> 00:12:05.446 stole that person's watch. 00:12:06.276 --> 00:12:09.701 So maybe, again, I'm splitting hairs, reading too much into it, 00:12:09.701 --> 00:12:11.262 whatever. You can take that for whatever it's worth. 00:12:11.634 --> 00:12:15.031 But that's problematic. And it's worth noting, I think the other kind of half 00:12:15.031 --> 00:12:21.541 of this, which is where you were going, is that somebody else was injured, 00:12:21.541 --> 00:12:24.375 right? It wasn't just the armed robber. 00:12:25.351 --> 00:12:30.441 So we're in a busy Airbnb with a party going on, presumably with some high schoolers 00:12:30.441 --> 00:12:34.801 maybe, and a bunch of adults, probably some other things going on that most 00:12:34.801 --> 00:12:36.768 parents of high schoolers would not be thrilled about. 00:12:37.291 --> 00:12:41.209 And so what I'm saying is it's probably crowded. There's probably a lot of people there. 00:12:43.451 --> 00:12:48.506 And we're shooting probably in a way that's not super clean. 00:12:50.794 --> 00:12:57.330 Absolutely. Yeah, a 19-year-old woman suffered injuries, non-life-threatening, but still serious. 00:12:58.262 --> 00:13:03.922 Because as of several days, I found another source here, as of several days 00:13:03.922 --> 00:13:06.439 after the incident, she was still hospitalized. 00:13:07.722 --> 00:13:12.812 So, you know, as far as we know, the good guy in this case, as it's presented, 00:13:12.812 --> 00:13:14.269 is the only one that fired shots. 00:13:14.763 --> 00:13:18.199 Right. She somehow ended up injured. Yeah. 00:13:18.826 --> 00:13:22.267 So so we didn't have a clean you know safe 00:13:22.778 --> 00:13:28.332 uh backdrop we weren't mindful of our environment we involved ourselves presumably 00:13:28.332 --> 00:13:32.882 after the armed robbery already taken place and was was no longer happening so 00:13:33.202 --> 00:13:38.103 now it's just about i don't know justice or getting a watch back hard to say which 00:13:38.707 --> 00:13:42.457 and um yeah not none of that is none of that is okay none of that i would call 00:13:43.357 --> 00:13:45.975 strongly ethical or strongly legal. 00:13:46.434 --> 00:13:52.592 Yeah. An interesting side angle of this whole thing is the Harvey, 00:13:52.592 --> 00:13:55.130 was it Harvey or Hazel Park, Hazel Park, 00:13:55.658 --> 00:13:58.746 you know, community, this little city, this suburb, whatever, 00:13:59.181 --> 00:14:03.172 like one of the reactionary things that they've done to this is like, 00:14:03.172 --> 00:14:06.842 they're putting a moratorium on issuing of any new short-term rental, 00:14:07.744 --> 00:14:12.272 licenses in that jurisdiction because, you know, wow, this is a problem. 00:14:12.272 --> 00:14:15.022 So, you know, we're having shootings at the short-term rentals. 00:14:15.022 --> 00:14:18.778 So the answer is to, you know, not issue any new licenses. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:23.428 Anyway, I just thought that was part of the story. 00:14:23.579 --> 00:14:28.482 It's the equivalent of like, we need to license people who grow wheat because, 00:14:28.482 --> 00:14:31.218 you know, drunk driving has become an issue. 00:14:31.398 --> 00:14:32.222 Or barley. Yeah. 00:14:32.842 --> 00:14:35.467 Yeah. That's how it feels. Like, it's like, what? 00:14:36.002 --> 00:14:38.033 Yeah. Yeah. Good point. 00:14:38.910 --> 00:14:40.338 Got to be doing something. 00:14:40.767 --> 00:14:43.397 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Got to do something, yeah. 00:14:44.708 --> 00:14:46.072 Doing something's better than doing nothing. 00:14:49.189 --> 00:14:53.616 Anyway, let's go now to our next story. This is a justified safe story out of, 00:14:54.611 --> 00:14:56.799 Bartlesville, Oklahoma. 00:14:57.455 --> 00:15:02.604 Armed bystander stops scissors attack. I saw this headline and I was like, 00:15:03.063 --> 00:15:07.347 no way. Like, that's just kind of, you know. 00:15:08.196 --> 00:15:12.235 We have two scissors attacks this episode. So I'm just putting that out. Yes. 00:15:13.236 --> 00:15:13.715 Yes. 00:15:14.456 --> 00:15:17.936 It's like we got some people from the UK over here trying to figure out how to create mayhem. 00:15:19.850 --> 00:15:23.780 Yeah. So why don't you give us the details on this one out of Oklahoma? 00:15:24.465 --> 00:15:30.046 Oh, my gosh. All right. So the police respond to reports of a shooting at a 00:15:30.046 --> 00:15:33.546 shopping center. So you can imagine whatever you want for a shopping center. 00:15:33.546 --> 00:15:37.236 I don't really know what that is. Maybe some mall. I don't know. 00:15:37.368 --> 00:15:44.426 So anyway, they secure the scene. And here's what we got from witnesses and 00:15:44.426 --> 00:15:45.588 the interviews, et cetera. 00:15:46.540 --> 00:15:51.686 The armed individual observed a man allegedly attempting to assault another 00:15:51.686 --> 00:15:53.266 person with a pair of scissors. 00:15:53.266 --> 00:15:57.116 So I'm seeing this in my head. I'm thinking, all right, I'm like looking over 00:15:57.116 --> 00:15:58.946 at the other side of the shopping center. 00:15:58.946 --> 00:16:01.656 And there's this guy. He's got these scissors. And he's like, 00:16:01.656 --> 00:16:06.016 I don't know, like trying to jab somebody or hit them with – he's attempting 00:16:06.016 --> 00:16:10.776 to assault somebody allegedly with these scissors. so um 00:16:14.594 --> 00:16:19.501 As you see this, you, the armed bystander, draw and fire your gun, 00:16:20.464 --> 00:16:24.220 effectively striking the man who has said scissors carrying out the assault. 00:16:25.079 --> 00:16:28.994 So detectives show up and they're trying to decide what's going on. 00:16:29.354 --> 00:16:34.164 This story is an interesting one because most news publications, 00:16:34.164 --> 00:16:37.194 in my experience, when they publish a story and then they have an update to 00:16:37.194 --> 00:16:41.584 that story, they either publish an entirely separate story or they just change it. 00:16:41.584 --> 00:16:45.014 They just update the actual story and they put like updated, you know, with a date. 00:16:45.548 --> 00:16:49.154 But this one, you actually get the current story. And then at the bottom, 00:16:49.154 --> 00:16:53.263 it says, you know, the original story. And it gives you the entire original 00:16:53.396 --> 00:16:56.037 story, which I find fascinating. 00:16:56.664 --> 00:17:01.569 And there's not a lot of different details as far as, you know, 00:17:01.726 --> 00:17:04.624 in the original story that, you know, we got more details now. 00:17:04.624 --> 00:17:08.065 Now we know that there were scissors involved, basically. 00:17:08.570 --> 00:17:13.474 But it's clear that both the original and the new version of the story both 00:17:13.474 --> 00:17:17.085 say that like this investigation is not over. Like we're still looking into this. 00:17:17.869 --> 00:17:22.205 Yeah. It even said in the updated story that no arrests have been made. 00:17:23.041 --> 00:17:31.984 Yes. Like, so I mean, scissors toting dude obviously has shooting as a scissors 00:17:31.984 --> 00:17:35.084 and is supposedly assaulting somebody gets shot. 00:17:35.084 --> 00:17:40.363 It doesn't actually say that person is, They got shot, like died or anything, right? 00:17:40.775 --> 00:17:43.164 Did I, I didn't miss any, just says injured. 00:17:43.164 --> 00:17:45.860 It says he's receiving emergency medical treatment. 00:17:46.377 --> 00:17:50.724 So typically if you got a bad guy, like even if they end up needing medical 00:17:50.724 --> 00:17:53.517 treatment, you know, they spend a few days in the hospital or whatever. 00:17:53.912 --> 00:18:00.294 Like they, they typically still get arrested and are placed under arrest while 00:18:00.294 --> 00:18:03.004 they're getting treatment. You know what I mean? Like, so that, 00:18:03.004 --> 00:18:05.594 that little detail I thought was kind of interesting that no, 00:18:05.594 --> 00:18:07.902 no arrests have been made. Mmm. 00:18:09.613 --> 00:18:12.467 But there could be a mental health issue or concern here. 00:18:12.467 --> 00:18:17.017 There could be a domestic thing going on. You know, for all we know, 00:18:17.017 --> 00:18:21.007 the man with the scissors was defending himself from some crazy, 00:18:21.170 --> 00:18:24.037 you know, ex-girlfriend. I mean, we don't, we don't, we just don't know, 00:18:24.037 --> 00:18:26.714 right? Like there's, you know, any number of potential things. 00:18:26.969 --> 00:18:33.027 And it does, it specifically says that the condition of the alleged assaulter 00:18:33.027 --> 00:18:37.067 of scissors, with scissors, his condition was not released. So, 00:18:37.067 --> 00:18:40.709 you know, maybe he did die. Maybe he didn't die. You know, condition not released. 00:18:40.971 --> 00:18:41.243 Yeah. 00:18:42.445 --> 00:18:47.977 But regardless, we have another incident of somebody observing something at 00:18:47.977 --> 00:18:52.117 a certain distance and saying, oh, my day has come. 00:18:52.117 --> 00:18:58.716 This is why I carry this gun is to protect people from crazy scissor assaulting people. 00:18:59.355 --> 00:19:01.799 And so I'm on this. I'm jumping in. 00:19:02.657 --> 00:19:07.575 And there's a lot of things we don't know, Riley, like were verbal commands given. 00:19:07.906 --> 00:19:11.267 Hey, drop those scissors. Hey, you know, cut this out. Hey, stopped it. 00:19:11.267 --> 00:19:15.277 You know, like, or was it just like, oh, that's not good. Draw a bang. 00:19:15.277 --> 00:19:16.345 You know, I mean, we don't know. 00:19:16.780 --> 00:19:18.713 But those are things that are worth thinking through. 00:19:18.998 --> 00:19:24.197 Yeah. Yep. Very, very interesting story there. And again, caution with getting 00:19:24.197 --> 00:19:28.557 involved in other people's problems. Like, you know, what was going on here? 00:19:28.557 --> 00:19:32.965 What was the deal with the scissors? Who was doing what to who? Who is the bad guy here? 00:19:33.301 --> 00:19:36.347 Et cetera, et cetera. By the way, did you see that I put it up? I left it up here. 00:19:36.347 --> 00:19:40.577 It's been a minute or two, but Phil commenting on Facebook, you know, 00:19:40.577 --> 00:19:43.877 this is obviously in reference to our sponsor, to one of our sponsors of today's 00:19:43.877 --> 00:19:48.679 episode being HK says he owns a P7 M13, a Mark 23 and a USB 45. 00:19:49.132 --> 00:19:52.272 I stopped a robbery at my pharmacy with the latter. 00:19:54.501 --> 00:19:58.123 That's awesome, dude. We'd love to hear more about that, by the way. Feel free to message us. 00:19:59.221 --> 00:20:03.272 Yeah, it's interesting because we are – yes, Phil, you should definitely message 00:20:03.272 --> 00:20:04.219 us. We'd love to chat with you. 00:20:05.490 --> 00:20:09.722 But I feel like sometimes we talk out of two sides of our mouth and the listeners 00:20:09.722 --> 00:20:11.682 might see some hypocrisy from us. 00:20:12.502 --> 00:20:15.542 Because out of one side of our mouths, we're saying, hey, be careful about getting 00:20:15.542 --> 00:20:19.452 involved in third-party situations. You don't know what you're doing. 00:20:19.452 --> 00:20:23.675 And then on the other side, we're like, hey, good job stopping this robbery at your pharmacy. 00:20:24.975 --> 00:20:29.392 Right? Which is frankly a third party situation. And so I guess I'm just feeling 00:20:29.392 --> 00:20:35.242 like we have to add some context or clarity that it's, we're not saying you 00:20:35.242 --> 00:20:37.552 should never get yourself involved in third party situations. 00:20:37.552 --> 00:20:40.342 I think what we're trying to say is that when you're getting involved in a third 00:20:40.342 --> 00:20:46.012 party situation, there's an added level of risk because you lack information. 00:20:47.046 --> 00:20:52.230 And that lack of information increases your risk, both legally and morally. 00:20:52.508 --> 00:20:55.392 So it doesn't mean you shouldn't get involved, it just means that you know less 00:20:55.392 --> 00:21:00.026 than you would if you were the first party, right? If you were directly involved in the incident. 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:05.252 And so there's a higher burden on you to try and get information. 00:21:05.252 --> 00:21:08.238 And me and Riley, we're not there, right? We're reading news stories. 00:21:08.482 --> 00:21:12.642 So maybe if we went and interviewed the guy at the mall or this guy on Facebook 00:21:12.642 --> 00:21:15.682 who stopped the robbery at the pharmacy, they might be like, 00:21:15.682 --> 00:21:16.789 oh, it was super obvious. 00:21:17.562 --> 00:21:21.538 I saw this and this and this, and that made it very clear to me what was going on. 00:21:21.932 --> 00:21:24.722 And we might be like, oh, geez, well that makes total sense right like we just 00:21:24.722 --> 00:21:30.245 don't know um so we're giving this kind of cautionary tell right 00:21:30.605 --> 00:21:35.582 And that's exactly it we are saying be careful you know and that care is make 00:21:35.582 --> 00:21:40.962 sure you know what's going on there is a there's a difference between an armed 00:21:40.962 --> 00:21:43.690 robbery at a pharmacy and, 00:21:44.967 --> 00:21:48.942 an armed robbery on the street and i know that like you're like well an armed 00:21:48.942 --> 00:21:50.196 robbery is an armed robbery um, 00:21:52.061 --> 00:21:56.133 When you're in, say, a pharmacy, you've got pharmacy workers. 00:21:56.133 --> 00:21:57.994 They're behind one side of a counter. 00:21:58.418 --> 00:22:01.473 And when you have somebody on the other side of that counter with a gun in their 00:22:01.473 --> 00:22:07.739 hand, that's usually pretty clear. That's a lot easier to read of a situation than just... 00:22:07.931 --> 00:22:12.123 I like to share the experience that I had a number of years ago when I was working 00:22:12.123 --> 00:22:14.403 in a construction project in Aurora, 00:22:14.943 --> 00:22:21.603 Colorado, of all places, and saw a man carrying a gun, like outstretched moving 00:22:21.603 --> 00:22:26.143 towards somebody in a parking lot and i'm going oh my gosh i'm about to watch 00:22:26.143 --> 00:22:27.964 somebody get you know whacked, 00:22:28.719 --> 00:22:33.533 and that man carrying a gun moving with purpose towards somebody else in this 00:22:33.533 --> 00:22:35.290 parking lot was an undercover cop, 00:22:36.243 --> 00:22:39.953 you see what i mean like it would have been easy for me to perceive that as 00:22:39.953 --> 00:22:45.503 being an armed robbery because but the context was very different than an armed 00:22:45.503 --> 00:22:48.009 robbery in a pharmacy, for instance, you know, again, it's just, 00:22:48.763 --> 00:22:51.103 everything is contextually dependent, right? 00:22:51.735 --> 00:22:56.673 Yes. Yes. And I think one of, one of the, and I think, I think I've talked about 00:22:56.673 --> 00:23:01.373 this many times, but I struggle, I struggle every time I see one of these news 00:23:01.373 --> 00:23:04.662 incidents where we're using guns and, 00:23:06.247 --> 00:23:09.538 Potentially just to protect property. 00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:13.471 And I struggle because an armed robbery at a pharmacy is a great example of 00:23:13.471 --> 00:23:17.473 a situation where we just don't know what the likelier intended outcome is. 00:23:18.129 --> 00:23:21.571 Like we know that they want money or valuables or drugs or whatever the thing 00:23:21.571 --> 00:23:23.749 is at a pharmacy that they're robbing. 00:23:24.619 --> 00:23:27.574 But we don't know if they're going to get that stuff and then shoot the people, 00:23:27.946 --> 00:23:31.394 if they're going to shoot witnesses, if they're going to go out with a blazing 00:23:31.707 --> 00:23:35.751 gunfire, or if they're going to be like, sweet, we got the pills, let's roll. 00:23:36.071 --> 00:23:41.261 We don't even know sometimes, plenty of times we've caught armed robbers who 00:23:41.261 --> 00:23:46.101 were actually using fake guns or BB guns or any number of other things that 00:23:46.101 --> 00:23:47.973 weren't even really deadly threats. 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:53.313 So it's one of those situations that really is contextually dependent where 00:23:53.418 --> 00:23:57.951 you end up having to make a judgment call, one that's right for you on site, 00:23:57.951 --> 00:24:02.554 on scene, based on all those little details and your instincts and all that stuff. 00:24:02.989 --> 00:24:09.431 And I never mean to suggest that, in hindsight, looking at this as the Monday 00:24:09.431 --> 00:24:12.295 morning quarterback, that it was the right or wrong judgment call. 00:24:12.631 --> 00:24:16.291 I only mean to point out that there has to be a judgment call there because 00:24:16.291 --> 00:24:23.121 certain plenty of armed robberies of watches after prom parties probably end 00:24:23.121 --> 00:24:26.424 with nothing more wrong happening than someone's lost a watch. 00:24:26.795 --> 00:24:26.981 Yeah. 00:24:30.924 --> 00:24:35.033 All right. Moving to the next story here. Tulsa, Oklahoma. So also out of Oklahoma. 00:24:35.253 --> 00:24:38.064 This is a sad one, right? You know, when we come across some ones like this, 00:24:38.364 --> 00:24:43.734 it always is sad, you know, because this is a family that's involved. 00:24:43.734 --> 00:24:48.727 And domestic violence situations are they're just they're tragic, 00:24:49.364 --> 00:24:50.509 no matter which way you look at it. 00:24:51.804 --> 00:24:56.624 Yes, there may very well usually is a bad guy, you know, involved or could be 00:24:56.624 --> 00:25:01.106 a woman. But in this case, we have an unfortunate bad guy who happens to be, 00:25:02.084 --> 00:25:04.253 a father, a 49-year-old man. 00:25:06.824 --> 00:25:10.691 He attacked his son, 16-year-old son, assaulted his wife. 00:25:11.944 --> 00:25:16.504 So this is a domestic violence situation that's very violent and getting out 00:25:16.504 --> 00:25:17.732 of control very rapidly. 00:25:18.664 --> 00:25:24.164 Um so apparently presumably as you know the maybe the attention was turned to 00:25:24.584 --> 00:25:31.014 the wife the 16 year old boy goes and grabs a gun that was kept in this apartment and shot his dad, 00:25:31.525 --> 00:25:36.296 shot his dad in the head in fact killed him right there on the site it's interesting it was uh, 00:25:36.865 --> 00:25:40.694 specific enough in the story to state that that he was found you know police 00:25:40.694 --> 00:25:43.546 found him dead with a gunshot wound to the head uh, 00:25:44.104 --> 00:25:49.414 absolutely tragic traumatizing terrible i mean the the domestic violence itself 00:25:49.414 --> 00:25:51.610 is traumatizing enough and then of course the trauma, 00:25:52.144 --> 00:25:57.644 actually you know having used violence against your father and killing him i 00:25:57.644 --> 00:25:59.921 can only imagine how how terrible that would be, 00:26:00.833 --> 00:26:05.324 but this is where you know i mean if we were to look back over all the justified 00:26:05.324 --> 00:26:07.897 saved episodes jacob that we've covered over the years, 00:26:08.524 --> 00:26:11.774 if you were to take a guess i mean just obviously this is not scientific in 00:26:11.774 --> 00:26:16.854 any way but How many times would you say we've covered a story where a minor 00:26:16.854 --> 00:26:21.969 occupant of a home grabs a firearm and uses it in defense? Hmm. 00:26:23.611 --> 00:26:25.143 Yeah. 30 to 50 times. 00:26:26.159 --> 00:26:29.149 More times than people would probably think, right? 00:26:29.932 --> 00:26:30.704 Yeah, it happens. 00:26:30.902 --> 00:26:35.488 And we don't even cover all the stories that exist out there, right? 00:26:35.830 --> 00:26:38.506 But out of the ones we've come across over the years, I mean, 00:26:38.506 --> 00:26:44.445 yes, dozens of times we have had stories like this. And so this is where I get 00:26:44.630 --> 00:26:49.663 a little bit testy, you know, with legislators that want to impose, 00:26:52.177 --> 00:26:55.976 storage requirements on families, you know. Oh, absolutely. 00:26:55.976 --> 00:27:00.746 Yeah. If this place, if this had happened in Colorado, then however this gun 00:27:00.746 --> 00:27:04.226 was stored that this 16-year-old was able to retrieve it was illegal storage. 00:27:04.226 --> 00:27:05.922 Right. I mean, it would have been criminal. 00:27:06.596 --> 00:27:11.373 Luckily, you know, defense to having broken that law is using the gun in self-defense. 00:27:11.686 --> 00:27:13.706 So he wouldn't have been charged here in Colorado. 00:27:14.206 --> 00:27:16.266 But the way the gun was stored was definitely illegal. 00:27:16.789 --> 00:27:21.316 And so, yeah, it is a very frustrating situation. And we're talking about a situation. 00:27:21.316 --> 00:27:24.788 I mean, I don't know all the details about why these people owned a gun, 00:27:25.357 --> 00:27:30.541 but I think based on interactions I have with students who come through my classes 00:27:31.023 --> 00:27:33.948 that a large number, particularly of female students, 00:27:36.494 --> 00:27:42.476 Divorcees, women who are divorced from a man or an ex-boyfriend, 00:27:43.834 --> 00:27:46.336 a lot of them get restraining orders and then they go get a gun. 00:27:46.783 --> 00:27:50.121 They look at it like, hey, I'm going to be on my own. The cops aren't going to show up on time. 00:27:50.585 --> 00:27:54.264 And so I need a gun and I need to know how to use that gun because I might be 00:27:54.264 --> 00:27:55.675 the person in the next news story. 00:27:56.134 --> 00:28:00.804 And we've seen that play out enough times, not in the news stories, 00:28:00.804 --> 00:28:03.864 but I've seen enough people come through my classes saying that that's their 00:28:03.864 --> 00:28:05.358 game. That's why they're coming through. 00:28:07.494 --> 00:28:12.604 I know an instructor who had a student come through once to get her permit and 00:28:12.604 --> 00:28:17.884 to go buy a gun and then came back to the class two years later after she had 00:28:17.884 --> 00:28:22.413 shot and killed her ex-husband and wanted to take the class a second time. 00:28:23.094 --> 00:28:29.153 So my point is that we see this a lot because restraining orders do nothing 00:28:29.611 --> 00:28:31.985 to protect people in the moment. 00:28:33.174 --> 00:28:37.639 They potentially give law enforcement a valid way to take some action. 00:28:37.953 --> 00:28:40.244 But in the moment that the ex-husband, 00:28:40.244 --> 00:28:44.785 the ex-boyfriend, the stalker comes knocking, cops ain't there. 00:28:45.476 --> 00:28:51.517 And so this is a semi-common means of planning to defend oneself. 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:55.864 And so I see a world where I'm making this up where the mom's like, 00:28:55.864 --> 00:29:00.404 hey, 16-year-old son, your dad's freaking crazy lunatic nut job, 00:29:00.404 --> 00:29:03.174 as you know. And so we got this gun right here. And, you know, 00:29:03.174 --> 00:29:06.325 if he comes to knocking, like, this is how you get it. This is how you access it. 00:29:06.726 --> 00:29:09.605