WEBVTT 00:00:15.189 --> 00:00:16.469 And welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.469 --> 00:00:20.989 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK. 00:00:22.029 --> 00:00:27.829 Today is Friday, January 23rd, 2026, as of the recording of this episode. 00:00:28.389 --> 00:00:30.069 And I'm your host, Riley Bowman. 00:00:31.089 --> 00:00:35.009 And today's a special episode, I'm happy to drop for you all. 00:00:35.649 --> 00:00:39.669 We actually are just at the tail end of SHOT Show, just wrapped up today, 00:00:39.909 --> 00:00:44.449 and we had a great time. So we're actually going to be releasing over the next 00:00:44.449 --> 00:00:47.929 few weeks some episodes recorded during SHOT Show. 00:00:48.189 --> 00:00:53.809 We did several episodes at the Heckler & Koch booth, as well as one in the CCW Safe booth. 00:00:54.169 --> 00:00:59.149 We have a bunch of great guests lined up, and today's episode actually features 00:00:59.149 --> 00:01:03.669 John Correa of Active Self-Protection, Adam Winch of Defenders USA, 00:01:03.969 --> 00:01:06.349 and Brian Hill of The Complete Combatant. 00:01:07.189 --> 00:01:10.369 Today's episode is sponsored by Heckler & Koch. 00:01:11.269 --> 00:01:17.289 Fine makers of the best guns. These are the guns we carry and trust to defend 00:01:17.289 --> 00:01:19.849 our lives with and those we love. And we hope you will too. 00:01:20.189 --> 00:01:24.889 We're thankful to HK for allowing us to make use quite a bit. 00:01:25.029 --> 00:01:30.029 We spent several hours in their booth over the course of the week recording podcast episodes. 00:01:30.249 --> 00:01:33.449 And I appreciate all their support of the Concealed Carry Podcast. 00:01:33.789 --> 00:01:38.669 And if you wouldn't mind, if you can, supporting them. That helps us out a lot. 00:01:39.729 --> 00:01:44.809 Thank you for tuning in to this episode today. I enjoyed a great chat over a 00:01:44.809 --> 00:01:48.669 variety of topics, actually, with John, Adam, and Brian. 00:01:49.429 --> 00:01:51.789 We are actually all brand ambassadors 00:01:51.789 --> 00:01:56.129 of HK and are honored to have that privilege of representing them. 00:01:56.269 --> 00:02:01.749 And it was a lot of fun to talk to these fine individuals whom I've enjoyed 00:02:01.749 --> 00:02:04.609 getting to know over the years and train with and share the range with. 00:02:04.849 --> 00:02:07.809 And they are all masters of their respective crafts. 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:11.869 So I hope you'll enjoy tuning in and listening to this episode. 00:02:12.409 --> 00:02:13.929 And we'll catch you on the flip side. 00:02:14.811 --> 00:02:19.651 All right, everyone, we're here at SHOT Show 2026. I'm Riley Bowman, 00:02:19.731 --> 00:02:24.611 host of the Concealed Carry podcast, and I am thrilled to be surrounded by friends here. 00:02:24.771 --> 00:02:31.331 We've got John Correa from Active Self-Protection, and we've got Adam Winch from Defenders USA. 00:02:31.771 --> 00:02:36.111 Super excited to have them. And we've got Brian Hill of The Complete Combatant. 00:02:36.451 --> 00:02:39.631 And you guys have known you for a lot of years. 00:02:40.291 --> 00:02:47.371 The one thing that is bringing us together at this event is we're all HK Brand Ambassadors. 00:02:48.031 --> 00:02:52.271 You guys are spending time working in the booth and meeting and greeting and shaking hands. 00:02:52.411 --> 00:02:56.091 And I thought this would be a great opportunity to sit down and have a little 00:02:56.091 --> 00:03:00.411 roundtable discussion with you guys. So that's the context. 00:03:00.871 --> 00:03:05.451 It's only like two hours into the show. But real quick, anything you've seen? 00:03:05.531 --> 00:03:09.831 Well, you guys probably haven't gotten around too much. But I got a question for you guys. 00:03:10.151 --> 00:03:12.731 Anything you've seen just in the first two hours walking around the show that 00:03:12.731 --> 00:03:13.791 you're like, oh, that was kind of interesting? 00:03:13.951 --> 00:03:17.111 Well, not walking around the show floor yet. Yesterday at Range Day, 00:03:17.311 --> 00:03:23.651 I saw a really cool 3D-printed suppressor with a different way of doing things 00:03:23.651 --> 00:03:26.271 from ambient arms. I don't have any relationship with them. 00:03:26.411 --> 00:03:31.491 But as opposed to flow-through suppressors, theirs actually uses a Venturi effect 00:03:31.491 --> 00:03:34.271 and sucks external air in as the bullet passes. 00:03:34.671 --> 00:03:37.631 And I'm like, your suppressor literally sucks. 00:03:38.131 --> 00:03:43.051 It literally sucks. And it's cool to the touch. Like you can dump a whole mag through it. 00:03:43.091 --> 00:03:46.451 I saw your short or real on that. I was like, dude, this is amazing. 00:03:46.631 --> 00:03:50.611 And hearing safe with 5.56. And I was like, all right, that's pretty cool. 00:03:50.791 --> 00:03:53.951 So that to me feels, I mean, obviously, they've been developing it for a long time, but. 00:03:54.431 --> 00:04:02.051 The effects of the changes in the NFA registry is, I'm like, gives me. 00:04:02.131 --> 00:04:05.351 I will give you dollars, you give me that, and I will put the paperwork through today. 00:04:06.051 --> 00:04:10.611 I think from what I'm seeing and observing, we're seeing even more manufacturers, 00:04:10.791 --> 00:04:15.251 like normally just firearms manufacturers that are getting into that suppressor 00:04:15.251 --> 00:04:16.551 manufacturing game as well. 00:04:17.031 --> 00:04:21.151 I think we're just starting to see the year of the suppressor, 00:04:21.251 --> 00:04:27.131 perhaps. So we'll see as things continue on, and particularly as some court 00:04:27.131 --> 00:04:28.271 cases make their way through. 00:04:28.451 --> 00:04:32.051 I mean, it might even get more friendly for those of us that would like to add 00:04:32.051 --> 00:04:33.291 more cans to the collection. 00:04:33.571 --> 00:04:38.591 Well, and I think a lot of people's hesitancy is not only – I don't think the 00:04:38.591 --> 00:04:44.251 $200 stamp is the big thing, but I hate paying for it. I just hate it. It's just annoying. 00:04:44.731 --> 00:04:46.891 Yeah, it's annoying, yes. And the principle of the matter. 00:04:46.891 --> 00:04:50.251 And the principle of the matter. So that's gone, and the fact that you file 00:04:50.251 --> 00:04:52.511 them electronically and they come back now in a day or two. 00:04:52.731 --> 00:04:56.311 So it's not, you know, oh, I buy it and nine months from now I get it. Yes. 00:04:56.471 --> 00:04:59.291 It shows right up, and I can go pick it up, and that's great. 00:04:59.431 --> 00:05:01.611 That makes it a whole lot more accessible, I think. 00:05:02.251 --> 00:05:05.831 The concealedcarry.com crew went to dinner with a Norwegian friend of ours last 00:05:05.831 --> 00:05:08.671 night. We were having the conversation of suppressors last night. 00:05:08.671 --> 00:05:11.451 Yeah, but you buy suppressors in Norway over the counter at the hardware store. 00:05:11.451 --> 00:05:16.011 He made this comparison. He said, well, I just hand a couple hundred dollars 00:05:16.011 --> 00:05:20.551 to my six-year-old son, and he'd go down to the store and buy a suppressor for me. 00:05:20.771 --> 00:05:24.091 And I'm like, that's just not fair. More free than America. 00:05:25.731 --> 00:05:32.131 So hopefully that day is coming. Adam, you're really like, you and Brian too, 00:05:32.411 --> 00:05:35.851 killing it here, working in the HK booth and at the range day yesterday, 00:05:35.851 --> 00:05:38.671 which we really appreciate you guys representing the brand so well. 00:05:39.471 --> 00:05:43.391 So you're probably not getting around as much, but what would you like to say about, 00:05:44.006 --> 00:05:49.066 New stuff this year from HK. How about that VP9X? 00:05:49.646 --> 00:05:54.906 Yeah, I like it. It's really, to me, about the same size as the old VP9. Pretty much, yeah. 00:05:55.506 --> 00:05:58.686 I like it. I still like the F just because I like that extra length to it. 00:05:59.166 --> 00:06:02.246 But it ran like a VP9. It ran solid as can be. 00:06:02.546 --> 00:06:06.286 People seemed to love it yesterday. They seemed to, as I was at the table, 00:06:06.446 --> 00:06:10.146 they had a couple of the Ks out there. So for those of you who don't know, the Ks were the compact. 00:06:11.026 --> 00:06:12.986 It seemed like when they had the choice between the X and the K, 00:06:13.066 --> 00:06:14.326 they went to the X almost every time. 00:06:14.866 --> 00:06:18.226 So people liked it, and it worked well. And like you said, it's the OG. 00:06:18.306 --> 00:06:22.566 The OG form factor, just bringing all those A1s features across to that, 00:06:22.686 --> 00:06:25.566 which I think is – I mean, we expected that to come eventually. 00:06:25.846 --> 00:06:30.766 But I'm like you where I've got the F slide now on my K frame. 00:06:30.806 --> 00:06:33.726 So it's the opposite of what they're doing. It's the XL. 00:06:33.726 --> 00:06:38.026 Because I'm all about that. I like the longer slide, but carrying concealed, 00:06:38.266 --> 00:06:41.166 you know, the K just works so well in that context. 00:06:41.326 --> 00:06:44.566 And it shoots really well in that configuration. 00:06:44.906 --> 00:06:48.646 I don't know whether, you know, that's, like, okay to say as a brand ambassador, 00:06:48.766 --> 00:06:50.886 you know, mixing parts like you, you know. They work. 00:06:51.106 --> 00:06:53.766 I think we're all guilty of it. Yeah, I think so. 00:06:54.066 --> 00:06:59.206 I truly enjoy the finger grooves of the old VP9. Oh, yeah? I love those. 00:06:59.386 --> 00:07:02.866 They never, I mean, it wasn't an issue for me. Yeah. But it makes sense, 00:07:02.866 --> 00:07:05.046 I think. We've seen other brands that have, 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:07.819 deleted finger grooves and things and they were the. 00:07:07.819 --> 00:07:08.559 Hotness for a bit 00:07:08.559 --> 00:07:11.679 It works yeah works for more shooters and more hands when 00:07:11.679 --> 00:07:14.959 we go to just a front yeah straight front strap so yeah 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.859 good stuff brian anything you want to share but just kind 00:07:17.859 --> 00:07:21.619 of kicking off the show here uh we ran the rifles yesterday suppressed so we 00:07:21.619 --> 00:07:28.739 had the uh a4 and 556 and 762 and i gotta tell you i've never seen a 762 run 00:07:28.739 --> 00:07:33.479 for eight hours without lubrication with no failures yeah piston gun it was 00:07:33.479 --> 00:07:35.019 incredible It was just incredible. 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.859 The suppressor was so hot, it burned a hole in the table. 00:07:38.339 --> 00:07:42.539 And the gun just kept running and running. And it's always been a problem in 00:07:42.539 --> 00:07:44.079 that platform to run 7.62. 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:47.919 And that gun is exceptional. And it's got a really cool impulse to it. 00:07:48.039 --> 00:07:49.019 It's soft. It's shootable. 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:54.539 It's soft. It's almost like a little bit hot 5.56 on a 7.62. That's awesome. Yeah. 00:07:55.679 --> 00:07:59.779 Thank you for that report. I didn't get the chance to get down there to the 00:07:59.779 --> 00:08:02.119 rifles or shoot any of those, including suppressed. 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.519 But it looked like you had a great time. A lot of people were lining up to try 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.779 the rifles yesterday, so good stuff. 00:08:08.691 --> 00:08:14.551 Well, let's shift gears a little bit. I'm going to dig back into your lives. Oh, boy. 00:08:14.911 --> 00:08:16.971 Yeah, we're going to go deep here. 00:08:18.051 --> 00:08:23.011 What would you say, John? I mean, because here now, how many years are you into 00:08:23.011 --> 00:08:24.631 active self-protection as a business? 00:08:25.031 --> 00:08:29.331 I incorporated the business in 2011. So I started teaching handgun classes just 00:08:29.331 --> 00:08:31.551 as an NRA certified instructor 15 years ago now. 00:08:31.591 --> 00:08:33.031 15 years, right? Cool. 00:08:33.831 --> 00:08:35.031 It's grown a little since then. 00:08:35.211 --> 00:08:40.431 Yeah, absolutely has. You've done fantastic. it's been wonderful to see my friends 00:08:40.431 --> 00:08:43.971 grow their businesses, grow their presence online, grow, you know, 00:08:44.071 --> 00:08:47.731 the, the, uh, impact that you guys are having on people out there, 00:08:47.731 --> 00:08:50.131 uh, in a variety of different capacities. 00:08:50.771 --> 00:08:54.011 What would you say is a defining moment for you in your life that kind of, 00:08:54.551 --> 00:08:59.131 that if you were to go back and go, yeah, defining moment that led me to where 00:08:59.131 --> 00:09:01.731 I am right now today, doing what you're doing. 00:09:02.451 --> 00:09:04.111 Oh gosh, I was going to go deep, didn't I? 00:09:04.191 --> 00:09:07.011 Yeah, there's, uh, there's several of them. I think, um, 00:09:08.439 --> 00:09:12.079 I didn't have that big thing where a lot of people get into self-defense because 00:09:12.079 --> 00:09:14.899 they got mugged or something bad happened to them, so then they, 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:16.579 man, I'm not going to have that happen again. 00:09:16.859 --> 00:09:21.679 Me, it was more, I was actually working retail management and selling video 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.839 games for a living, and the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 came out, 00:09:24.939 --> 00:09:28.979 and other managers were getting mugged, and I was like, not me, not me. 00:09:30.959 --> 00:09:35.279 So I started carrying because I was like, no, man, that's not going to happen to me. 00:09:35.419 --> 00:09:38.199 And then I bought the wrong gun, and I put it in the wrong holster, 00:09:38.199 --> 00:09:41.879 and I loaded it with the wrong ammo and carried it as a lucky rabbit's foot 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:43.639 for a while and thankfully didn't have to use it. 00:09:45.999 --> 00:09:50.839 But, you know, there was a big thing that my wife was raised in, 00:09:50.979 --> 00:09:52.039 we were both raised in California. 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:54.699 I was raised hunting. She was raised 00:09:54.699 --> 00:09:58.939 no guns. And so she wasn't real happy with a gun in the house at all. 00:09:59.619 --> 00:10:04.419 Any guns in the house. Like, you know, now my wife, she can out shoot probably 00:10:04.419 --> 00:10:08.219 90% of people. So, yeah, but yeah, literally when we left here, 00:10:08.239 --> 00:10:09.739 she's like, okay, is the shotgun loaded? 00:10:09.939 --> 00:10:12.859 Is this right? Is my gun in the safe? Blah, blah, blah, blah, 00:10:12.859 --> 00:10:13.819 blah. So she knows her things. 00:10:14.779 --> 00:10:20.019 And she's, but she said to me, she said, she said, I'm worried that the danger 00:10:20.019 --> 00:10:22.999 of that outweighs its value. 00:10:23.739 --> 00:10:27.859 And that was a big conversation we had. And I really honored that. 00:10:28.019 --> 00:10:32.299 And, you know, my wife, I don't know about you guys, but the Holy Spirit, 00:10:32.419 --> 00:10:35.979 unfortunately speaks in my wife's voice an awful lot. speaks. 00:10:36.219 --> 00:10:36.899 I get that. 00:10:37.099 --> 00:10:41.599 Sounds like her. Too dang much. Makes me mad. And so I was like, 00:10:41.659 --> 00:10:47.459 no, that's a valid concern. And so it's on me that the value of this has to 00:10:47.459 --> 00:10:50.139 exceed the cost, has to exceed the risk of it. 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.379 And so that's why I started training. That's why I started training as a student. 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:59.119 And so that was a watershed moment because I said, okay, I really value that, 00:10:59.219 --> 00:11:01.519 but I'm going to have to invest some time and some money in training then. 00:11:01.999 --> 00:11:05.599 I had started investing some time and money in martial arts with my son. 00:11:06.566 --> 00:11:09.646 At the time. And she was like, I understand, you know, we got to pay our bills. 00:11:09.846 --> 00:11:13.626 Okay, I get it. So that's honestly why I started active self-protection because 00:11:13.626 --> 00:11:17.006 I wanted to train, but I didn't have enough money to train. 00:11:17.106 --> 00:11:20.846 And so I started teaching a little bit so that I could make a few bucks so that 00:11:20.846 --> 00:11:24.566 I could go to class and write up my ammo. So that was that conversation with 00:11:24.566 --> 00:11:25.346 my wife. Very important. 00:11:25.786 --> 00:11:29.146 Wow. I appreciate you sharing that with me. I don't think you've gone into that 00:11:29.146 --> 00:11:32.206 level of detail, you know, with me personally sharing some of that story. 00:11:32.366 --> 00:11:33.486 So that's, That's awesome to hear. 00:11:34.126 --> 00:11:37.986 Same question for you, Adam. Defining moment that led you to where you are today, 00:11:38.306 --> 00:11:39.446 doing what you're doing right now. 00:11:39.626 --> 00:11:40.446 You know, there's a couple of 00:11:40.446 --> 00:11:43.886 defining moments. Really, it was a trickle effect that was my dad's fault. 00:11:44.366 --> 00:11:47.206 So my dad is a missionary, right? I grew up as a missionary kid in Africa. 00:11:47.206 --> 00:11:52.286 And I saw him start churches, start Bible schools, and just have a slow but 00:11:52.286 --> 00:11:53.866 consistent methodical life. 00:11:54.602 --> 00:11:58.542 Effect on people's lives, right? Changing lives. It was changing cultures, 00:11:58.862 --> 00:11:59.822 changing all sorts of things. 00:12:00.082 --> 00:12:05.442 And I admired how he had an educator's heart and his influence just made people's 00:12:05.442 --> 00:12:07.642 lives better and better and better, both from Africa. 00:12:07.662 --> 00:12:11.922 And then he went to the middle or to Russia and others after perestroika or the wall fell down. 00:12:12.602 --> 00:12:16.782 And then so later I thought I was going to be called into the ministry like 00:12:16.782 --> 00:12:18.422 my dad, went to Bible school. 00:12:18.542 --> 00:12:22.942 God made it very, very clear. You are not called to preach. You are definitely not called to preach. 00:12:23.022 --> 00:12:25.282 Oh, we're going to have some talk about the fact that you are in ministry. 00:12:25.682 --> 00:12:28.442 So, and I was so grateful, right? 00:12:28.522 --> 00:12:31.962 I was instantaneously happy and the Lord gave me something else. 00:12:32.002 --> 00:12:34.242 I won't say it on camera. He said, go do this. So I did. 00:12:34.762 --> 00:12:38.502 And then later, as I became a soldier and then later a police officer, 00:12:38.722 --> 00:12:42.962 I started seeing so many victims of crime to the point where I sat and watched 00:12:42.962 --> 00:12:46.582 over and over on some arrest or some violent scene where if these people had 00:12:46.582 --> 00:12:49.362 just known how to defend themselves, knowing the things I know, 00:12:49.502 --> 00:12:51.122 they would never be here in the first place, right? 00:12:51.162 --> 00:12:55.782 If they just knew some basic situation awareness, some basic self-defense mechanisms 00:12:55.782 --> 00:13:00.342 or some de-escalation, or even how to use a weapon to defend themselves as a tool. 00:13:00.822 --> 00:13:04.202 So I kept griping about it. People don't know what we know. And finally, 00:13:04.402 --> 00:13:07.602 somebody very important to me challenged me, why don't you do something about it? 00:13:08.382 --> 00:13:12.742 Huh? Watershed moment. Then as I started slowly began teaching, 00:13:13.082 --> 00:13:18.422 I too kept becoming, because I enjoyed fighting and I enjoyed going after bad people, right? 00:13:18.502 --> 00:13:22.682 They like to fight Sometimes I kept becoming involved in things that were a 00:13:22.682 --> 00:13:26.742 bit dangerous to the point of lethal type things, or I became the victim as 00:13:26.742 --> 00:13:27.542 they would attack, right? 00:13:28.631 --> 00:13:32.651 And I just kept going, okay, people need to know this. I need to grow my own defensiveness. 00:13:33.051 --> 00:13:38.131 Other people need to. And I suddenly realized I had unwittingly gone into the 00:13:38.131 --> 00:13:42.811 ministry of teaching people how to grow their own defensiveness. 00:13:43.191 --> 00:13:45.931 And so there was some watershed moments that built up to it. 00:13:46.031 --> 00:13:50.291 But then it became a ministry to where both as a business and ministry, 00:13:50.471 --> 00:13:52.331 help people learn how to defend themselves. 00:13:52.491 --> 00:13:57.271 It's far beyond the gun. It's much more than that. but you use the gun to now 00:13:57.271 --> 00:14:00.871 ultimately reach people and touch people's lives in bigger ways defensively 00:14:00.871 --> 00:14:06.111 than just shooting and so that's kind of where it came from yeah awesome i appreciate 00:14:06.111 --> 00:14:09.271 you sharing that as well brian your turn same question. 00:14:10.456 --> 00:14:14.836 I think for me, the big difference in my life was at about 13, 00:14:14.836 --> 00:14:17.596 I had a real choice growing up in a very abusive household. 00:14:17.836 --> 00:14:20.836 I could either become a perpetrator or a protector. 00:14:21.216 --> 00:14:24.636 And I needed some discipline. I needed some structure. I was in a lot of trouble, 00:14:24.656 --> 00:14:26.876 and it wasn't being applied at home. 00:14:27.096 --> 00:14:30.196 There was no real teaching in that. And I had a choice to make, 00:14:30.276 --> 00:14:31.536 and I could feel it very clearly. 00:14:31.916 --> 00:14:35.676 Luckily for me, I had three or four good men that set an example in my life 00:14:35.676 --> 00:14:40.416 and became mentors, and therefore saved my young life. and I realized that I 00:14:40.416 --> 00:14:43.476 never wanted to perpetrate that again, but I also had to do more than that. 00:14:43.636 --> 00:14:44.776 I had to save the next generation. 00:14:44.956 --> 00:14:49.476 I had to help the next group. And that was very important to me to teach and 00:14:49.476 --> 00:14:52.356 advocate for other people's success. I didn't realize it at the time. 00:14:52.356 --> 00:14:53.636 I chose a martial career. 00:14:53.916 --> 00:14:59.236 I taught all sorts of martial arts every generation, every decade from Wing 00:14:59.236 --> 00:15:04.656 Chun Kung Fu to Taekwondo to karate to kickboxing, Muay Thai, MMA, the whole thing. 00:15:05.776 --> 00:15:10.016 And that was my choice is to advocate for other people's success so that that 00:15:10.016 --> 00:15:13.796 young person or that older person that never had anybody in their corner, 00:15:13.976 --> 00:15:17.776 that didn't get a good mentor like mine, would have somebody that cared about 00:15:17.776 --> 00:15:18.996 them and could make a difference. 00:15:19.136 --> 00:15:22.696 And it's been my great joy, especially in this industry, to meet fine people. 00:15:23.396 --> 00:15:27.596 That's their only concern, is they want people to get better and they want them to grow. 00:15:27.616 --> 00:15:31.396 Because a lot of our clients are suffering from post-traumatic problems. 00:15:31.716 --> 00:15:32.936 They've already had the violence. 00:15:33.456 --> 00:15:36.816 They'd like to walk the world not only as a survivor, but 00:15:36.816 --> 00:15:39.616 as somebody who's gained their true strength back and they're 00:15:39.616 --> 00:15:42.436 they're free to do so and the work that 00:15:42.436 --> 00:15:47.236 we do helps them get to that point and it's very rewarding and I think we leave 00:15:47.236 --> 00:15:51.956 the world a better place if we do our jobs well so it's a humbling task and 00:15:51.956 --> 00:15:55.896 I often don't feel quite up to it but continue to grow continue to try to be 00:15:55.896 --> 00:15:59.616 a better person and it's always our quest yeah absolutely, 00:16:00.571 --> 00:16:03.831 Well, since I put you guys in the hot seat, here's my response as well. 00:16:03.931 --> 00:16:09.231 And that would be that kind of, I guess, the term has been well used here. 00:16:09.331 --> 00:16:14.371 The watershed moments in my life, I think of two. Not all that dissimilar from you. 00:16:15.131 --> 00:16:21.211 That I remember when we were expecting my first child, my son, my oldest son. 00:16:23.011 --> 00:16:27.031 And that was sort of the first time I was like, you know, up to that point in 00:16:27.031 --> 00:16:31.971 my life, we lived in a nice community. I mean, their crime was relatively low. 00:16:32.111 --> 00:16:36.351 It wasn't on my radar so much as, hey, I got to be prepared for something violent 00:16:36.351 --> 00:16:38.271 that potentially happened to me and my wife. 00:16:38.691 --> 00:16:41.111 But up to that point, it was like, you know, I could take care of myself. 00:16:41.311 --> 00:16:44.231 Okay. My wife can probably, I mean, she's no wimp. 00:16:44.471 --> 00:16:48.611 You know, she doesn't back down, you know, or, you know, she takes care of herself real well. 00:16:48.691 --> 00:16:53.311 And so, but now it's like, oh, we're bringing this person into the world. 00:16:54.291 --> 00:16:59.611 And he can't, you know, he can do nothing of his own, at least as a baby, right? 00:16:59.731 --> 00:17:04.231 So it was like, man, I would not be able to live with myself if something happened 00:17:04.231 --> 00:17:08.071 to him, you know, and I was unable to properly defend him. 00:17:08.351 --> 00:17:13.071 And so that was like the impetus for me to go and, you know, 00:17:13.171 --> 00:17:16.371 I owned a pistol at the time, but it was like, okay, well, I mean, 00:17:16.531 --> 00:17:17.471 I want to carry it legally. 00:17:17.531 --> 00:17:22.011 So I had to go do the class thing, get a permit, you know, all that. 00:17:22.843 --> 00:17:29.323 A few years later, and much like you, it was a lucky rabbit's foot. I grew up in a... 00:17:29.323 --> 00:17:33.043 Derpist day. The derp in me honors and recognizes the derp in me. 00:17:33.263 --> 00:17:37.683 Derp knows derp. We recognize one another. We've all probably been there at 00:17:37.683 --> 00:17:39.083 some point in one shape or form. 00:17:39.443 --> 00:17:45.263 But I grew up in a more rural type area and community and shooting and hunting 00:17:45.263 --> 00:17:46.303 and all that was very common. 00:17:46.463 --> 00:17:50.883 So, of course, like other people we've probably interacted with over the years, 00:17:51.043 --> 00:17:54.883 like, oh, I know how to shoot. So I thought I knew what I needed to know. 00:17:55.323 --> 00:17:59.083 But it wasn't until a few years later when I decided to become a reserve cop 00:17:59.083 --> 00:18:07.183 that I attended my first post-LE Academy pistol training experience. 00:18:07.303 --> 00:18:14.643 And going through 80 hours of handgun training, even though that was post-LE 00:18:14.643 --> 00:18:18.463 standard fair stuff, it was still like, whoa. 00:18:18.583 --> 00:18:20.243 Still way better than most people get. 00:18:20.743 --> 00:18:25.863 So that opened my eyes. And it was shortly after that that I started pursuing additional training. 00:18:26.043 --> 00:18:29.023 And then, of course, became an instructor and doing much like you, 00:18:29.143 --> 00:18:31.103 teaching classes and stuff. 00:18:31.283 --> 00:18:34.803 And so that was kind of the two things was that initial recognition of I got 00:18:34.803 --> 00:18:39.923 a little one to defend. And then, oh, there's a whole world of things I thought 00:18:39.923 --> 00:18:42.383 I knew and I don't and getting that training. 00:18:42.603 --> 00:18:47.463 So that's kind of what I wanted to shift to next is what was the first training 00:18:47.463 --> 00:18:48.363 class you ever took, John? 00:18:49.223 --> 00:18:53.823 Well, I mean, the first firearms training class I ever took was my Arizona concealed 00:18:53.823 --> 00:18:55.383 carry class. I grew up hunting. 00:18:55.643 --> 00:18:58.423 I grew up shooting a little bit. So I knew the rules of safe firearms handling. 00:18:58.523 --> 00:19:00.043 My grandpa beat those into me when I was a kid. 00:19:01.383 --> 00:19:03.643 And then I did – 00:19:05.145 --> 00:19:09.245 There was a local company to me in Phoenix. So the crazy part of Phoenix, 00:19:09.325 --> 00:19:11.565 Arizona is you could shoot competition shooting. 00:19:11.565 --> 00:19:12.665 Seven days a week. Yeah. 00:19:13.005 --> 00:19:13.345 Every day. 00:19:13.625 --> 00:19:18.725 Every day. Yeah. I didn't know that at the time. Right. So, but because of my 00:19:18.725 --> 00:19:22.165 martial arts connections, you know, it's six degrees of Kevin Bacon. 00:19:22.385 --> 00:19:24.705 You know, like, you know, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy. 00:19:25.185 --> 00:19:29.525 That there was a company, it's a local company that was putting on like basically 00:19:29.525 --> 00:19:31.525 a defensive 150 handgun class. 00:19:32.125 --> 00:19:34.305 And uh i still catch facebook 00:19:34.305 --> 00:19:38.765 Memories from that now that i think my my that was my first serious class which 00:19:38.765 --> 00:19:44.405 was uh well and i talk about that that's after like i took my nra instructor 00:19:44.405 --> 00:19:47.385 certifications in 2011 those things and those were good classes. 00:19:47.385 --> 00:19:52.165 Actually my nra training counselor mike abramovich was really fantastic set 00:19:52.165 --> 00:19:55.805 me on a good course to be a learner and not everybody has that experience you 00:19:55.805 --> 00:19:59.045 know a lot of a lot of folks in their nra training classes are like you know Now it's Fudville. 00:19:59.605 --> 00:20:02.165 Now, Mike Abramovich was a great dude. He's retired now. 00:20:03.085 --> 00:20:04.925 I know that name. I've seen him pop up. 00:20:04.965 --> 00:20:11.285 Yeah, man. He's a really good TC. He was regional for a long time and just really 00:20:11.285 --> 00:20:13.445 big on teaching and teaching well. Yeah. 00:20:14.057 --> 00:20:17.017 And teaching teachers so uh then this 00:20:17.017 --> 00:20:19.897 company called latent force did this basically defensive 150 and 00:20:19.897 --> 00:20:23.197 that was probably the first time that i had stood on a line and 00:20:23.197 --> 00:20:26.077 wasn't one of the better 00:20:26.077 --> 00:20:31.277 shooters around like i had some real things to learn because some of those dudes 00:20:31.277 --> 00:20:36.177 could shoot um now i look back at it today and i go you know if i stood on that 00:20:36.177 --> 00:20:39.997 same line i would be probably head and shoulders better than than everyone else 00:20:39.997 --> 00:20:42.577 but i sure wasn't at the time And that really taught me, oh, 00:20:42.977 --> 00:20:44.057 well, there's a lot more here. 00:20:44.237 --> 00:20:46.757 Okay, let's get after that. I can do that. 00:20:47.337 --> 00:20:51.677 Had the same thing happen 2017. I took Mike Seeklander's firearms instructor 00:20:51.677 --> 00:20:56.377 development class, FIDC in 17 with him and Rich Brown. 00:20:56.637 --> 00:20:59.357 That's a good foundation to further build upon. 00:20:59.597 --> 00:21:03.437 Well, and it wasn't, I mean, okay, Mike Seeklander's a world champion, right? 00:21:03.557 --> 00:21:07.117 Like, dude's a crazy shooter and Rich is no slouch. but 00:21:07.117 --> 00:21:10.057 the the cops that was being hosted by las cruces 00:21:10.057 --> 00:21:16.777 pd and those we stood on the line and um yeah so their training sergeant is 00:21:16.777 --> 00:21:23.357 a beretta is a wilson combat sponsored shooter yeah uh pat doyle yeah and so 00:21:23.357 --> 00:21:27.757 and pat you know these dudes step up and pat's about this wide across the shoulders 00:21:27.757 --> 00:21:29.917 first of all he's built like you know and only 00:21:29.917 --> 00:21:30.737 A tall yeah. 00:21:30.737 --> 00:21:35.777 But dude can and he had his dudes out there on the line and i get out there 00:21:35.777 --> 00:21:39.957 and these dudes start burning it down they can shoot like and all of a sudden 00:21:39.957 --> 00:21:43.577 i'm looking around going i thought i was a pretty good shooter holy heck man 00:21:43.577 --> 00:21:47.877 these guys i i got some work to do here so those have been there's been a couple of those yeah 00:21:47.877 --> 00:21:52.717 That's awesome i appreciate you sharing that i you know i i've taken a class 00:21:52.717 --> 00:21:56.997 or two with mike over the years and uh and that's how i got to meet pat he came 00:21:56.997 --> 00:21:59.157 to help with the class and i'm like oh. 00:21:59.157 --> 00:22:02.897 I consider pat a friend and he's just a great guy the funny the funny part pat 00:22:02.897 --> 00:22:08.317 doyle story is they do some teach backs and Aspen had grown a little bit from 00:22:08.317 --> 00:22:10.377 there, but it wasn't my full-time gig yet. 00:22:11.402 --> 00:22:14.262 And then they were doing some teach backs. And, well, what do you do, 00:22:14.342 --> 00:22:16.482 John? Oh, okay, well, this is what I do, blah, blah, blah. 00:22:16.842 --> 00:22:21.622 And then the next day, Pat Doyle, this wide across his shoulders, 00:22:21.682 --> 00:22:24.122 comes in and he goes, I got a bone to pick with you, buddy. 00:22:24.382 --> 00:22:29.782 And I was like, uh-oh, I'm about to get murdered, you know, because Pat Doyle could rip my arms off. 00:22:30.002 --> 00:22:30.202 Yeah. 00:22:30.422 --> 00:22:33.642 And he goes, man, I went and looked at your YouTube channels. 00:22:33.682 --> 00:22:37.682 I was up until 3 o'clock in the morning watching videos. And I got problems with you, buddy. 00:22:38.402 --> 00:22:41.702 And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. And he goes, man, there's a lot of good stuff 00:22:41.702 --> 00:22:43.822 there, blah, blah, blah. And then he tells all his dudes, like, 00:22:44.002 --> 00:22:46.382 we had done a badge cam out of Las Cruces that had happened. 00:22:46.642 --> 00:22:49.042 And he was like, oh, hey, man, he did Jimmy's shooting. 00:22:49.502 --> 00:22:53.162 And everybody's like, oh, my gosh, that guy. And so then it was his big to-do. 00:22:53.842 --> 00:22:56.022 Had that guy. He goes, I called him. He's on ship later today. 00:22:56.042 --> 00:22:57.182 He's going to come by and say hi. 00:22:58.062 --> 00:22:59.622 So I was like, please don't kill me, Pat. 00:23:02.122 --> 00:23:04.182 And now he's like, you know, whenever I'm in town over there, 00:23:04.202 --> 00:23:07.742 he comes into Phoenix, which he does occasionally. We'll grab a meal. He's just a great dude. 00:23:08.562 --> 00:23:13.362 How about you, Adam? I mean, if your first class is like a concealed carry class, 00:23:13.462 --> 00:23:17.902 fine, but first real class, whatever you want to share. You know, 00:23:18.042 --> 00:23:20.922 I started out in the military, then I went straight to the police world. 00:23:21.262 --> 00:23:29.562 I didn't even get a concealed carry permit until probably 10 or so years as being a cop, right? 00:23:29.582 --> 00:23:32.362 You had a concealed carry permit as a cop, but I finally went, 00:23:32.462 --> 00:23:35.242 ah, go take this thing. That's pretty good. Yeah, you don't need it, right? 00:23:36.182 --> 00:23:38.702 So I had a ton of training through there, right? The SWAT team, 00:23:38.822 --> 00:23:42.622 you name it. Tons of training there. And then I just started teaching on the side. Yeah. 00:23:43.225 --> 00:23:46.185 And at some point later when I was turning Defenders full time, 00:23:46.425 --> 00:23:49.185 somebody said, why don't you go ahead and get some real training out somewhere? 00:23:49.325 --> 00:23:53.005 And I'm like, why? I can teach this anyways. So I ran off eventually. 00:23:53.185 --> 00:23:55.825 I figured I needed at least an instructor certification. So I went off to an 00:23:55.825 --> 00:23:57.905 NRA course to get the instructor. 00:23:58.105 --> 00:24:00.625 It was awful. It was horrible. 00:24:01.005 --> 00:24:04.305 Oh, it was terrible, right? And there was 64 of us in there. 00:24:04.425 --> 00:24:07.425 Oh, wow. There was only two of us that were coming from the LE background. 00:24:08.965 --> 00:24:11.845 Three or four people in the whole class could shoot. We could shoot. 00:24:11.845 --> 00:24:13.105 I thought I was pretty good. 00:24:14.185 --> 00:24:17.425 So we did well in the class, but it was just a basic NRA class. 00:24:19.045 --> 00:24:21.205 Later, somebody said, well, maybe you should get some more training. 00:24:21.325 --> 00:24:22.105 I thought, I don't need it. 00:24:22.565 --> 00:24:26.605 A buddy of mine just kept pushing me. So I went off and not knowing a single 00:24:26.605 --> 00:24:28.745 thing, knowing nothing about the civilian training world. 00:24:28.905 --> 00:24:31.145 Somebody said, go to this guy. Who is it? Ah, go to this guy. 00:24:31.645 --> 00:24:32.425 Ended up being Rob Pincus. 00:24:33.345 --> 00:24:38.005 So went to several of his classes. And at the time, what he was teaching was 00:24:38.005 --> 00:24:42.265 very similar to what I'd learned on the SWAT team as a cop. So I figured this 00:24:42.265 --> 00:24:46.465 is the way. Well, for the era, that probably makes sense. So I figured this is the way. Yeah. 00:24:46.705 --> 00:24:53.565 And later I began learning, you know, and started going to other places. 00:24:54.625 --> 00:24:59.105 But what was interesting was I walked into the first Pincus class I'd ever been 00:24:59.105 --> 00:25:03.065 to, and I was always one of the top shooters at RPD, one of the better ones. 00:25:03.185 --> 00:25:06.105 And I walked in thinking, SWAT dog, I got this. Mm-hmm. 00:25:07.486 --> 00:25:10.886 I did not realize as a cop, I was not that good of a shooter. I had no idea. 00:25:11.266 --> 00:25:14.126 And in the first 10 minutes of that class, I was so humbled. 00:25:14.506 --> 00:25:19.306