Riley Bowman: And welcome to the Concealed Carry
Riley Bowman: Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK.
Riley Bowman: Today is Friday, October 3rd, 2025. As of the moment, we are recording this episode.
Riley Bowman: We're glad to have all of you joining us. I am your host, Riley Bowman, joined by co-host,
Jacob Paulsen: Jacob Paulson. Yeah, that's me. That's my name.
Riley Bowman: It's the dude right there. Glad to have you with me on the podcast here today.
Riley Bowman: We are talking today about our Justified Saves.
Riley Bowman: Well, this is a Justified Saves episode. So we've got a whole bunch of great
Riley Bowman: stories to share with you today of defensive gun uses.
Jacob Paulsen: Some doozies. Yeah, some confusing ones too.
Riley Bowman: Yes, we'll talk
Jacob Paulsen: Our way through those. We'll go a little detective on this.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, there's probably some assumptions that are going to have to be made about some of these stories.
Riley Bowman: The big thing here is what lessons can we take away from these stories that
Riley Bowman: we can use to make ourselves better, thinkers, better planners,
Riley Bowman: better decision makers, better defended-minded folks overall.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm realizing in the camera here that if I sit up straight, I can be taller than you.
Jacob Paulsen: Now you sat up straight, and now I'm shorter than you again.
Jacob Paulsen: For a second, I was taller. If someone could screenshot that.
Riley Bowman: That'd be great.
Riley Bowman: Hello. Greetings, Joseph. He's watching and joining us from YouTube here.
Riley Bowman: Check out Colorado CRS on using force to stop certain crimes in progress.
Riley Bowman: Yes, yes, we're acquainted with Colorado revised statutes on using force to
Riley Bowman: stop certain crimes in progress. Thank you, Joseph, for checking in.
Riley Bowman: Today's episode, the first, is sponsored by CCW Safe.
Riley Bowman: This is our Justified Saves episode, and therefore, we're talking about the
Riley Bowman: use of a gun in defense, of life, of saving people from bad things happening to them.
Riley Bowman: And that's exactly what you want to have coverage for from CCWsafe CCWsafe.com
Riley Bowman: is of course their website
Riley Bowman: you can check out their whole lineup of plans that they have available there,
Riley Bowman: we certainly encourage you to do that encourage you to even compare them against
Riley Bowman: other competing products in the marketplace we think that you'll arrive at the
Riley Bowman: same conclusion that we have which is that CCWsafe is the best player in this
Riley Bowman: space Jacob, what else do you want to add to that?
Jacob Paulsen: I think they have the best coverage, I think on paper just, you know,
Jacob Paulsen: matching them up apples to apples, you can see that they're going to weigh that they're the best.
Jacob Paulsen: Beyond what's on paper, I think that, you know, there's a human component to this.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: As far as, you know, a process and a methodology and a mission,
Jacob Paulsen: a vision, a deeply held purpose, belief, and passion.
Jacob Paulsen: And so I think in that regard, CCW Safe really is the clear leader in their space.
Riley Bowman: Agreed.
Riley Bowman: So check out CCWsafe today. Go to ccwsafe.com. Guardian Nation members get a
Riley Bowman: little bit of discount. Actually, a pretty noticeable discount.
Riley Bowman: So make sure if you're a Guardian Nation member, log into your dashboard area. Get the details on that.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, 20% is kind of a big deal.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, that saves you considerably. So check it out, ccwsafe.com.
Riley Bowman: Also, today's episode sponsored brought to you by KSG Armory Holsters.
Riley Bowman: If you gotta be using a gun in defensive you know context it's super critical
Riley Bowman: you get that gun out of a holster in a timely and efficient manner and a quality
Riley Bowman: holster is a big part of that i mean we just got done with the guardian conference
Riley Bowman: a few weeks ago did you see some instances of people having issues with holsters lots
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah we had a lot of holsters go down most of them
Jacob Paulsen: in the first morning of course the first day but yeah i
Jacob Paulsen: know we had a lot of holsters go down you know ksg is not the only quality manufacturer
Jacob Paulsen: holster on the market there's there's other great holsters out there but unfortunately
Jacob Paulsen: the problem is there's a ton of crap and so that's really the issue is just
Jacob Paulsen: making sure you have quality options
Jacob Paulsen: so check out ksg as it could be the solution that's perfect for you.
Riley Bowman: Yeah i'll tell you man uh one of my classes it wasn't even i don't think it
Riley Bowman: was the first day no maybe it was yeah it must have been i think it was friday
Riley Bowman: afternoon so my second session that i was teaching and i had a gentleman you
Riley Bowman: know the first hour or two of class, he did a good job.
Riley Bowman: I didn't notice anything wrong. I mean, I noticed that his holster was not maybe
Riley Bowman: the greatest, but he was getting things done and I didn't have any concerns
Riley Bowman: just because I didn't see any safety issues.
Riley Bowman: It didn't seem like there was a major problem there.
Riley Bowman: But then about the third hour of a four hour block, all of a sudden we started having issues.
Riley Bowman: And so what started happening is he would go to draw and his whole holster would
Riley Bowman: come out of his waistband with the gun. And that's because...
Jacob Paulsen: Let me guess. He said something like, this has never happened to me before.
Riley Bowman: Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: As they always say, I've been using this holster for years.
Riley Bowman: This has never happened.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. And I'm not trying to put this person down or make them feel bad. Right.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm suggesting only that that's the pattern because you show up in that kind
Jacob Paulsen: of a training environment.
Jacob Paulsen: And environments could be new to you. you never really pushed your holster in that way.
Jacob Paulsen: And that's why it's important to field test our gear.
Riley Bowman: Yes, 100%.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, you're exactly right. We're not here to disparage people or their gear necessarily.
Riley Bowman: We are here to provide quality gear. And in the context of that class,
Riley Bowman: I was like, look, this is what we call a learning opportunity.
Riley Bowman: You came to class. This is one of the great reasons why it's good to get out
Riley Bowman: and do training courses or to maybe shoot competition even with your carry gear
Riley Bowman: because those are great opportunities to test your gear to see that it works or not.
Riley Bowman: And he, you know, this is a gun and a holster combination that clearly he had not tested adequately.
Riley Bowman: And he now found this is a problem.
Riley Bowman: So he left that class resolved to buy a case to your holster.
Jacob Paulsen: Sweet. I love it when it works in our favor, too.
Riley Bowman: Unfortunately, he did not have, I knew we didn't have anything on hand that would accommodate.
Riley Bowman: I'm trying to remember what gun it was. It was a Hellcat is what it was.
Riley Bowman: I was like, I'm pretty sure we don't have anything on site for that,
Riley Bowman: but you can get it on KSGRmory.com.
Riley Bowman: So that's what we're going to send you guys all here today to go and buy your
Riley Bowman: next quality holster. It's KSGRmory.com.
Riley Bowman: Let's get into our episode content now. We've got a bunch of stories lined up.
Riley Bowman: We'll try to cover these in an efficient manner.
Riley Bowman: First up, this one hit the news waves earlier this week, Jacob, here locally.
Riley Bowman: It's not actually a justified save story. And long-time listeners,
Riley Bowman: you know that typically when we do Justified Save episodes, we usually talk
Riley Bowman: about what-not-to-dos.
Riley Bowman: Quite commonly, we lead off with what-not-to-dos stories.
Riley Bowman: Quite often, they are Justified Save what-not-to-dos.
Jacob Paulsen: And we have a few of those.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, we do have a few of those. But this was actually not a DGU incident.
Riley Bowman: This happened, though, at a school.
Riley Bowman: This happened at a middle school in the Highlands Ranch area of Colorado here,
Riley Bowman: not too far from where we're based here. Ranch View Middle School.
Riley Bowman: There it is. I was looking for the name of the school.
Riley Bowman: So what happened here is actually a neighboring house to the middle school.
Riley Bowman: A guy sitting inside his house is cleaning his gun is what the story says.
Riley Bowman: So usually as part of that, we take a gun apart. I think you can probably see where this is going.
Jacob Paulsen: Writing's on the wall.
Riley Bowman: Probably a Glock or something like that, you know, that has the kind of situation
Riley Bowman: where you got to disassemble the gun.
Riley Bowman: And part of that is pressing the trigger to get it to come apart.
Riley Bowman: And so there's actually a staff member and a student outside the school that
Riley Bowman: witnesses and hears a pop as apparently this gentleman fires off a round trying
Riley Bowman: to disassemble this gun.
Riley Bowman: And not only does the gun go off and launch a bullet through his window of his
Riley Bowman: home, but it strikes an exterior door of the school.
Jacob Paulsen: Not clear to me if the window was open or not. I'm thinking ballistically.
Riley Bowman: Right, right.
Jacob Paulsen: Regardless, there's an impact on a school. Yes. The structure of the building itself is a school.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, so, I mean, bullet went...
Riley Bowman: It does say it traveled through a window. I mean, to your point,
Riley Bowman: I guess it could have been window open or whatever.
Riley Bowman: But, yeah, it traveled to the school and impacted the school.
Riley Bowman: Very, very, very concerning.
Riley Bowman: So this is our first what not to do today on a podcast is, yeah, this is a problem.
Riley Bowman: We're already, you know, walking on ice here in Colorado after that shooting
Riley Bowman: in Evergreen High School, what, a month ago now?
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, about a month.
Riley Bowman: And, you know, people are already on edge and then you have an incident like this happen.
Riley Bowman: Well, the problem with that is, is it reflects very poorly on gun owners.
Riley Bowman: We already have a big enough battle as it is, you know, uphill battle in this
Riley Bowman: country, especially in certain states and jurisdictions like where we are in
Riley Bowman: Colorado, trying to make sure we can maintain Second Amendment rights.
Riley Bowman: This kind of thing does not help in that battle.
Jacob Paulsen: Well, I mean, yes, agreed.
Jacob Paulsen: But what if someone got shot? Now we got to have that on our, on our conscious too.
Jacob Paulsen: I like, and this guy owned it in his defense, like cops showed up,
Jacob Paulsen: he came running out of his house. Like it was me. I'm sorry. Kind of deal.
Jacob Paulsen: So that's good. Charges are pending. We'll see if any action is taken against this guy legally.
Riley Bowman: Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: But, um, you know, he knew he screwed up and he, he did what he could to own
Jacob Paulsen: that. So I appreciate that.
Jacob Paulsen: And the rest of us have to learn from his mistakes, right? It's like,
Jacob Paulsen: okay, what might I change about my process, my method, you know,
Jacob Paulsen: my systems that I have in place to ensure this doesn't happen to me.
Riley Bowman: Right. Be safe all the time you're handling a firearm.
Riley Bowman: Maintain the four safety rules at all times. The big one there for me is be
Riley Bowman: aware and attentive to what you're doing at all times with the gun.
Riley Bowman: Part of that is understanding, hey, if I need to press the trigger to disassemble
Riley Bowman: my gun, I need to be aware and attentive of the fact that when I press that
Riley Bowman: trigger, the gun could fire if I have not properly unloaded the gun.
Riley Bowman: So make sure you're obeying those safety rules at all times, folks.
Jacob Paulsen: Well, and think about your backstop. You know, the window that faces the school, probably not it.
Jacob Paulsen: Right? So like there's layers to this, right? Like it's not just like,
Jacob Paulsen: hey, make sure the gun's unloaded.
Jacob Paulsen: Like, yeah, do that for sure. Like triple check it and all the things.
Jacob Paulsen: Like maybe even stick a barrel block in it before you take it apart.
Jacob Paulsen: But beyond that, let's also acknowledge like some tractions are safer than others.
Jacob Paulsen: What's my process? What's my system? What are my tools that mitigate risk? Yeah, 100%.
Riley Bowman: Yeah.
Riley Bowman: We have a similar story, unfortunately, out of Buckeye, Arizona.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, not with a lot of details on this one.
Riley Bowman: No, but why don't you give us a slowdown on this?
Jacob Paulsen: Can I put this on my Walmart shooting list?
Riley Bowman: Sure.
Jacob Paulsen: Okay, I wasn't sure if this qualifies.
Riley Bowman: I mean, it's a Walmart.
Jacob Paulsen: I think Walmart gets more shootings than anyone else. I mean,
Jacob Paulsen: maybe if we combine all gas stations into a single category,
Jacob Paulsen: they could beat out Walmart.
Riley Bowman: I was going to say top categories would be Walmart, obviously gas stations, Waffle Houses.
Jacob Paulsen: Waffle House for sure. Oh, my gosh.
Riley Bowman: I'm trying to think if there's any other common,
Jacob Paulsen: Trendy ones we see a lot.
Riley Bowman: McDonald's. McDonald's. This one kind of hits on both those categories.
Jacob Paulsen: That's right. This is a McDonald's and a Walmart.
Riley Bowman: Yes. Tell us about it.
Jacob Paulsen: We don't have a lot of details, but dude is sitting inside the McDonald's that's inside the Walmart,
Jacob Paulsen: and gun fires around while he's sitting there.
Jacob Paulsen: That's really all we know. Like this, that's the extent of the detail, but I, you know,
Jacob Paulsen: I hope these episodes are entertaining. Like there should be entertainment to
Jacob Paulsen: dang near everything we do in life.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure. Because that's, what's critical to keep you guys to pay attention.
Jacob Paulsen: That's what makes it a little bit more enjoyable for us.
Jacob Paulsen: But like for a second, like the entertaining aspect comes because deep down
Jacob Paulsen: inside of you, you, you believe this would never happen to you.
Jacob Paulsen: So it's easy to kind of make fun of or make light of someone who you perceive
Jacob Paulsen: to be some idiot, moron, jerk, whatever, that cooks off around inside the Wal-Donalds.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: I made that. See how I did that? The Mickelmark.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, it was a McDonald's inside of Walmart.
Jacob Paulsen: Mickelmark. Anyway. Yep. So it's easy to put that guy over here and be like,
Jacob Paulsen: it's not me. I would never.
Jacob Paulsen: But I'll just ask for a second. like have you ever been
Jacob Paulsen: in a public place and adjusted your gun right like
Jacob Paulsen: and if you're the answer is no i'm like uh bullcrap like
Jacob Paulsen: i bet you have i bet i bet most people listen to this have just
Jacob Paulsen: you know like just you know make an adjustment you know oh this is off something
Jacob Paulsen: like that um now most of i think most of those adjustments are probably pretty
Jacob Paulsen: dang freaking innocent gun stays in the holster quality holster like really
Jacob Paulsen: shouldn't lead to anything yeah but um you know we start taking this step further
Jacob Paulsen: okay well have you ever been making an adjustment got the gun out of the holster.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, we've seen a number of stories where people have shot themselves or
Jacob Paulsen: cooked a round off through a car because they got their gun out of their holster
Jacob Paulsen: and handled it while in their car, sometimes while driving. Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: I guess I'm just trying to say like, hey, for a second, just say,
Jacob Paulsen: hey, what can I learn from this?
Jacob Paulsen: Like, am I managing any of that kind of administrative handling properly and safely?
Jacob Paulsen: I'm postulating that's what happened.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. Let me just hit on a couple of things here that, I mean,
Riley Bowman: potential answers to this.
Riley Bowman: It could be, all right, it could have been a gun that did not fit a holster properly.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure.
Riley Bowman: Right. I've seen that happen. In fact, I've seen it happen to me way too often where people get a gun.
Riley Bowman: They can't find a holster that quite fits it, but they find when it's close enough.
Riley Bowman: And the problem with that is, is does it properly and fully and completely cover the trigger guard?
Riley Bowman: Okay. I've seen people using a holster. They're like, well, this is the closest
Riley Bowman: thing I could find. It goes in, but yet the trigger guard's still exposed. Okay.
Riley Bowman: It could be that also I've seen some poor quality holsters.
Riley Bowman: There was actually a video that went around the social media a while back of a gun.
Riley Bowman: It was some kind of, not a true Glock, but like one of the, you know,
Riley Bowman: kind of, not Glocks, kind of custom deal or a home built one.
Riley Bowman: And it had something to do with the trigger.
Riley Bowman: And the trigger was really, there was a problem with the trigger,
Riley Bowman: but there was a problem with the holster. and the holster made contact with
Riley Bowman: the trigger as it was inserted into the holster.
Riley Bowman: So the trigger guard portion of the holster was, in other words, too depressed.
Riley Bowman: So we're very careful with the holsters when we make it KSG Armory that,
Riley Bowman: you know, make sure that, like, there's nothing protruding into the trigger guard.
Riley Bowman: Just a little bit so it locks onto the trigger guard, but not so much that's
Riley Bowman: going to actually make contact with the trigger or anything like that. So that's a problem.
Riley Bowman: It could be something like a soft-sided holster that's not, you know,
Riley Bowman: where something can push through the holster material.
Riley Bowman: It could be this gentleman was carrying not in a holster.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure. Right. Sure.
Riley Bowman: And he's got other things mixed with the gun or he's putting his hand in his
Riley Bowman: pocket. Maybe it's a pocket holster or a pocket gun and he's messing around with it.
Riley Bowman: I'm reminded actually, I think it was another Walmart or not Walmart,
Riley Bowman: but McDonald's where gentleman's standing in line waiting to order or he's waiting to get his food.
Riley Bowman: And he's got a gun in a pocket holster or just in his pocket.
Riley Bowman: He's messing around with it in his pocket and fires off a round right into the
Riley Bowman: floor of the McDonald's.
Riley Bowman: And as soon as it happens, he's like, what, what,
Jacob Paulsen: What, what did that.
Riley Bowman: Where'd that come from? Like totally trying to play it off. And everyone else
Riley Bowman: there, of course, knew exactly like, dude, like clearly, like,
Jacob Paulsen: You know, my mind goes to the dude in the elevator. Remember the elevator surveillance?
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. Yeah. He's a off duty cop. He's out shopping with his wife and just does
Jacob Paulsen: some, some basic, you know, unnecessary, probably administrative handling of
Jacob Paulsen: his gun and shoots himself.
Riley Bowman: Moving it from his holster to his pocket of his jacket.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. That's what it was. Yep. So anyway.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: I just, you know, a little, I'll just,
Jacob Paulsen: A warning note for me to not be dismissive of these stories,
Jacob Paulsen: but to consider what you might learn.
Riley Bowman: It can happen to anybody if you are not, well, following those four safety rules we just talked about.
Jacob Paulsen: That's right.
Riley Bowman: Okay. So there's a couple of lessons learned. There's one more here.
Riley Bowman: This one actually involves a gun being fired at somebody. In fact,
Riley Bowman: somebody is struck and killed.
Riley Bowman: This starts as a road rage incident in Phoenix, Arizona area.
Riley Bowman: It's very unfortunate. We see these kinds of things happen, again,
Riley Bowman: too commonly. And, again, these reflect poorly on us as gun owners and concealed
Riley Bowman: carriers. But we've got to talk about this stuff because this is important.
Riley Bowman: This one has to do more with a poor decision that was made.
Jacob Paulsen: Well, we're lacking a little bit in detail. That's true. So there's a potential
Jacob Paulsen: benefit of the doubt on this, but continue.
Riley Bowman: That's fair. That's fair.
Jacob Paulsen: However, I think if you – Charges have not been filed.
Riley Bowman: If you take it from what is just said here, all right, that's how I think we
Riley Bowman: have to read it. And at the very least, we can take it at its word and go,
Riley Bowman: what's the lesson learned from this?
Riley Bowman: Well, probably not shooting people just because they approach you at the window and spit on you.
Jacob Paulsen: Way to kill the teaser on that one.
Riley Bowman: So there's two vehicles involved in road rage in Phoenix.
Riley Bowman: 54-year-old man, and I'm not sure how old the woman is, but it's a woman.
Riley Bowman: And they're going back and forth is the way this works.
Jacob Paulsen: Driving erratically for a few blocks. Yeah.
Riley Bowman: People reported that both of them were driving erratically. Now,
Riley Bowman: we don't know if there was one or the other that started this and,
Riley Bowman: you know, or if they were both contributors.
Riley Bowman: Because I've seen it happen where someone's just trying to get out of a situation.
Riley Bowman: I've seen it where people go back and forth and, you know, now he's mad, she's mad.
Riley Bowman: And, you know, there's no winners in those kinds of situations.
Riley Bowman: But basically, the vehicles got stopped. A man got out of one vehicle,
Riley Bowman: approached the other vehicle. A woman is in that vehicle.
Riley Bowman: And it says here, according to a witness, he spit on her and she shot him.
Riley Bowman: They were basically trying to get in each other's lanes, following each other really close.
Riley Bowman: At first, I thought he got ran over, said another witness, but then he heard
Riley Bowman: a pop coming down the street.
Riley Bowman: The man was shot in the neck, said there was blood all over the place.
Riley Bowman: He fell to the ground. He died. This guy died.
Riley Bowman: It also says that the woman who shot him said, I shot him. I'm sorry.
Riley Bowman: He ran up to my car. I was scared. He got in my face. I shot him.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, that's concerning.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. So take it away.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, that's a red flag, right? There's so many little things.
Jacob Paulsen: Like one thing that stands out to me right away is one of these dumb little
Jacob Paulsen: details. Like why was your window down?
Jacob Paulsen: Like I'm road raging with someone in my mind. I'm like putting myself in her shoes, right?
Jacob Paulsen: And maybe it could look like it's a two to tango thing, but maybe she's truly
Jacob Paulsen: just trying to get away and this guy keeps cutting her off and she's trying
Jacob Paulsen: to whatever. I don't know.
Jacob Paulsen: But some place we get stopped. We're not progressing anymore.
Jacob Paulsen: And i see him running toward me like my first move would be rolled my window
Jacob Paulsen: yeah yeah right like i'm like window up your.
Riley Bowman: First line of defense is just to maintain the integrity
Jacob Paulsen: Of the yes yes i mean he didn't have a gun in his hand nothing in his hands
Jacob Paulsen: that we know that we know of certainly so and.
Riley Bowman: Even her own statement which by the way statements
Jacob Paulsen: Can get you in trouble yeah this because she says i shot him.
Riley Bowman: I'm sorry she's apologized she
Jacob Paulsen: Did it some mission like she.
Riley Bowman: Did something wrong yeah he ran up to my car i was scared i he got my face i
Riley Bowman: shot him so the only thing she's saying is he got in my
Jacob Paulsen: Face yeah her potential justification is he got my face yeah and i was scared
Jacob Paulsen: so pretty hard to get someone's face through a glass window yeah so i don't
Jacob Paulsen: know i guess i'm harping on this whole window thing but like roll up the window
Jacob Paulsen: we happen to live in a place where there's only a couple months a year that
Jacob Paulsen: i can just drive around with my window down,
Jacob Paulsen: I can see it's too hot or it's too cold sure sure so you know I don't know you're talking.
Riley Bowman: About basically like right
Jacob Paulsen: Now yeah like where did this.
Riley Bowman: Happen it's October this is Phoenix
Jacob Paulsen: It's probably pretty warm there I don't know why the windows but anyway I'm just saying like,
Jacob Paulsen: The car is an integral, like, secured fortress against most things.
Jacob Paulsen: Not against a gun, certainly, but against somebody who's scary and running at your car.
Jacob Paulsen: Like that, the glass is a pretty good protection system. I think that we have to acknowledge that.
Riley Bowman: To that point, just real quick, just a quick little sidebar here.
Riley Bowman: People are often surprised how tough auto glass is.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, very tough.
Riley Bowman: Even those side windows, I've seen people hit windows with hammers and they
Riley Bowman: not break multiple times.
Riley Bowman: You see officers do this where they whip out their baton and start,
Riley Bowman: you know, eventually they'll break through. But sometimes it takes three, four, five hits.
Riley Bowman: You know, so this is not a joke about those windows, you know,
Riley Bowman: being a form of protection to you.
Jacob Paulsen: No, no, no, no. Seriously.
Riley Bowman: If a guy's got a weapon, that's a whole other thing.
Jacob Paulsen: Or if he's Schwarzenegger. i've seen schwarzenegger punch through those windows many.
Riley Bowman: Times it can happen if
Jacob Paulsen: Arnold's charging you that would change or chuck norris.
Riley Bowman: You know but that that is that's that's something that's really entertaining
Riley Bowman: to watch when you see some like you know videos of altercations uh involving
Riley Bowman: vehicles where dude gets out starts like wailing on the window with his fist
Riley Bowman: like thinking he's gonna bust through it ain't busting through it super disappointed
Riley Bowman: super fast breaking fingers and and knuckles yeah
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah so that's my first thought my second thought is just just pure motive thing,
Jacob Paulsen: right? Like this pure idea of,
Jacob Paulsen: It reminds me of another one we covered a year or two ago where there was a
Jacob Paulsen: road rage incident and cops get called.
Jacob Paulsen: And we have the body cam footage of the officer when they interview the supposed victim.
Jacob Paulsen: And it's actually in an airport where this went down, like in the pickup departure
Jacob Paulsen: area, kind of spot in an airport where eventually husband, wife are cruising around.
Jacob Paulsen: They end up getting their gun and shooting the guy who's been chasing them and acting erratically.
Jacob Paulsen: And the most crazy thing about that and it reminds me of this one we're talking
Jacob Paulsen: about now is the law enforcement comes up on the window you got the body cam and they truly believed,
Jacob Paulsen: they were justified like they weren't highly like oh
Jacob Paulsen: no yeah no then yeah then we grabbed the gun out of the case and then he came
Jacob Paulsen: over the window and we shot him you know like like they felt like they were
Jacob Paulsen: the good guys in this whole story and when the police
Jacob Paulsen: like the oh interesting great like please get out
Jacob Paulsen: i'm gonna put handcuffs on you like the shock in their face was
Jacob Paulsen: so sincere like but we were the good guys we didn't
Jacob Paulsen: do anything wrong yeah like how could this so i think i
Jacob Paulsen: think that's the other thing here is there's two potential issues
Jacob Paulsen: here it's one or the other on one hand is she just
Jacob Paulsen: legitimately believes that i was perfectly justified yeah
Jacob Paulsen: like someone like gets in your face and they
Jacob Paulsen: and you're scared you can shoot them yeah um in
Jacob Paulsen: which case you have some serious misinformation that
Jacob Paulsen: is not how the world works or second
Jacob Paulsen: um like just emotion
Jacob Paulsen: gets the better of you you make a bad mistake and then you start saying foolish
Jacob Paulsen: things to the news media or the police report and now you are legally screwed
Jacob Paulsen: yeah um i don't know if charges are being pressed here but if i was the da right
Jacob Paulsen: i'd be like well that's a slam dunk we can win that one that'll take very little work yeah yeah.
Riley Bowman: Sorry um so
Riley Bowman: we share these things you know to to be a
Riley Bowman: lesson uh for you regardless of having all
Riley Bowman: the details or not like look at what we do know and go hey
Riley Bowman: there's some there's some advisories we can take from this and
Riley Bowman: go you know one i should well not engage
Riley Bowman: in road rage if i can help it right i definitely don't
Riley Bowman: want to be a perpetrator of that or or to escalate incidents
Riley Bowman: of road rage uh to keep
Riley Bowman: my my vehicle you know the enclosure of the vehicle
Riley Bowman: intact okay windows up if i you know if i am involved in something like this
Riley Bowman: uh that's my first line of defense um and then don't shoot people because they
Riley Bowman: spit on you or because they get in your face and you get scared yeah and i understand
Riley Bowman: like a lady and a maybe it's a large large guy and she's a you know smaller
Riley Bowman: maybe even an older lady that feels a little bit more vulnerable,
Riley Bowman: but still, you don't get to shoot people just because somebody scares you.
Jacob Paulsen: Society has agreed that that's not okay.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. I mean, that's what the laws say.
Jacob Paulsen: And to be clear, if you're listening to this, that's not cool.
Jacob Paulsen: If I was her, I would have shot him too.
Jacob Paulsen: Well, then you've got to think of it in terms of tactics. They're...
Jacob Paulsen: Tactics like the decisions you make are all intended to avoid you getting into that moment,
Jacob Paulsen: the moment when you have to make a questionable decision because you've put
Jacob Paulsen: yourself in a vulnerable place where you can no longer control or predict the outcome, right?
Jacob Paulsen: So yes, like when someone's face is through my window,
Jacob Paulsen: inches from my face and they're shouting and spitting on me and I can't see
Jacob Paulsen: their hands and maybe they're going for something in their pockets,
Jacob Paulsen: I've now put myself in a situation where I have to make a compromised decision. And that's the problem.
Jacob Paulsen: It's just like when I don't lock my doors in the house and someone walks through
Jacob Paulsen: and walks into the house while I'm sitting on my couch,
Jacob Paulsen: I put myself in a semi-compromised position where I have to make a decision
Jacob Paulsen: without all the information or without time on my side.
Jacob Paulsen: And in those moments, you're going to make a compromised decision. And sometimes
Jacob Paulsen: you get lucky in that compromised decisions sometimes
Jacob Paulsen: you don't yep um so anyway there's the
Jacob Paulsen: the there's a big lesson here about tactics and some
Jacob Paulsen: like sometimes it's inevitable you just end up in a bad spot you have to make
Jacob Paulsen: a compromise decision but we see a lot of compromise decisions in these dgus
Jacob Paulsen: we're gonna see a couple more here before we're done where because of a poor
Jacob Paulsen: decision that was made in this case i think simply like lock doors roll up windows
Jacob Paulsen: you know like that would have been a good decision,
Jacob Paulsen: but a poor decision or multiple poor decisions was made.
Jacob Paulsen: Now we're in a situation where we have to make a compromise decision where,
Jacob Paulsen: you know, we could be making a very bad decision and trying to justify it because
Jacob Paulsen: of a lack of information we have.
Riley Bowman: Yep, 100%. Let's get now, that was our, the end of our what not to do segment here.
Riley Bowman: So let's go to now some DGUs where, I mean, even with some of these, you
Riley Bowman: non-what-not-to-do DGUs, there
Riley Bowman: could still be some things that are lessons learned of what not to do.
Riley Bowman: But generally, how we categorize these is these were more of a justified nature.
Riley Bowman: They seem to read as though what happened was justified.
Riley Bowman: This next story comes to us out of Cumberland, Indiana.
Riley Bowman: And the title here is, Woman Shot and Killed 30-Year-Old Man Who Was Allegedly
Riley Bowman: sexually assaulting her in Cumberland.
Riley Bowman: Do you want to give us details on this one? I think I shared the last one.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, yeah. I'll hand this one to you.
Jacob Paulsen: Please show up. There's a body. What happened? And here's basically what we
Jacob Paulsen: get from the story. Here's the narrative.
Jacob Paulsen: Please say the woman... Oh, nope. Back up. Sorry. An ad loaded and it pushed
Jacob Paulsen: my screen down. Okay, here we go.
Jacob Paulsen: So please say the shooter was a woman who lives in the home where the shooting
Jacob Paulsen: happened and said she knew the man who she killed.
Jacob Paulsen: Now, here's where we get to the detail we have. She told police that the bad
Jacob Paulsen: guy, the BG, was making, quote, unwanted sexual advances toward her, end quote.
Jacob Paulsen: She told police she tried to get away from the BG, but he followed her.
Jacob Paulsen: We're going to come back to that. And she said he started to sexually assault her.
Jacob Paulsen: The woman told police she managed to get her gun and shot him once.
Jacob Paulsen: So, yeah, we have a sexual assault that I'm not unclear where it begins.
Jacob Paulsen: But it ends in her home where somehow during the course of that assault she's
Jacob Paulsen: able to retrieve a gun and shoot him.
Riley Bowman: There is one additional key detail here. We don't always get these kinds of
Riley Bowman: details, but this goes to, again, it speaks to the likelihood of this being absolutely justified.
Riley Bowman: It says that she had injuries from the assault that had to be treated at the hospital.
Riley Bowman: So clearly, I mean, this is not just like, you know, she made anything up here
Riley Bowman: or imagined he was trying to sexually assault her.
Riley Bowman: No, he actually did some things to her that required treatment at the hospital.
Riley Bowman: Uh and so this is you know this is a very very dangerous very scary situation
Riley Bowman: what's interesting is the first thing i know to jacob is well we yeah we don't
Riley Bowman: know what it means when it says he followed her like where things are happening
Riley Bowman: at exactly and what that means yeah was
Jacob Paulsen: She out for a walk with the dog and he followed her or like did he come in the
Jacob Paulsen: house and he followed her around the house and she told him to get out.
Riley Bowman: Yeah right right um it does say that she managed to get her gun.
Riley Bowman: And a lot of times when we read those kinds of things, I read that as guns not
Riley Bowman: on person, gun had to be retrieved from somewhere.
Riley Bowman: And we talk about this quite, quite, we've talked about it a bunch over the
Riley Bowman: years about people in a lot of home invasion situations. And I understand people
Riley Bowman: not wanting to carry a gun while they're at home.
Riley Bowman: I also understand if you are awakened in the middle of the night,
Riley Bowman: you're not sleeping with your gun on you. Sure.
Riley Bowman: Right. So there's times and contexts where it makes
Riley Bowman: sense that you're going to have to retrieve a gun but there's plenty of instances
Riley Bowman: we've covered over the years where people it's middle of the day uh they're
Riley Bowman: they're they're up and about they're not asleep or being disturbed out of their
Riley Bowman: bed uh but they're having to go and get their gun to defend themselves from
Riley Bowman: a violent attack a break-in home invasion these
Jacob Paulsen: Are home defense gun owners yep i got a gun for home.
Riley Bowman: Defense yeah
Jacob Paulsen: And it's in the home so if there's a home defense scenario i gotta go get a gun.
Jacob Paulsen: Like that's right. I think there's a lot of American gun owners that would describe
Jacob Paulsen: themselves that way. Like, yeah, I got a gun for home defense. So it's in the house.
Riley Bowman: Yep. And so, well, you want to be thinking about where is it in the house?
Riley Bowman: How is it stored in the house? Hopefully it's stored safely in terms of preventing
Riley Bowman: unauthorized access, but also in a manner that you can then retrieve it in a timely fashion.
Riley Bowman: What about storing multiple guns in multiple
Riley Bowman: locations in the house sure because i mean
Riley Bowman: depending on the size of your house but even if your house isn't that big i
Riley Bowman: mean honestly my house is not that big and it's pretty simple in its layout
Riley Bowman: um i it's still a big difference for me to be in my bedroom versus my living
Riley Bowman: room and a gun's you know in the bedroom or it's in a you know in a different
Riley Bowman: part of the house where my safe you know my big safe is or you know like
Riley Bowman: it's still going to take some amount of time for me to get to that gun and retrieve
Riley Bowman: it if it's not on my person.
Riley Bowman: Maybe the home invasion begins as me thinking somebody's just at the door and
Riley Bowman: I go to the door and I don't have my gun on me.
Riley Bowman: And all of a sudden, oh, this is not what I think it is. And somebody's coming
Riley Bowman: through the door and where's my gun?
Riley Bowman: So these are things that you need to be thinking about planning ahead and doing
Riley Bowman: so responsibly and safely.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, I think it's also about habits and protocol.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, we're stepping a little bit outside the story now, and I'm thinking
Jacob Paulsen: broadly about home defense. But how am I answering the door, for example?
Jacob Paulsen: How am I managing the transition between parking my car on the street or in
Jacob Paulsen: the driveway and getting out of the house?
Jacob Paulsen: I think figuring out what are the systems I have in place? What are my tools?
Jacob Paulsen: What are my strategies to manage those most vulnerable moments?
Riley Bowman: Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: Here, we're lacking some key details about, you know, followed her.
Jacob Paulsen: And, you know, retrieve gun could be, I drew it out of my holster.
Jacob Paulsen: But most likely, she's, you know, going to some other part of the house to get it.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: So, yeah, there's definitely lessons there, I think, that you've enumerated.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. And many of these kinds of incidents, sexual assaults that happen at a
Riley Bowman: residence, are often somebody that does know the perpetrator.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm glad you brought that up because I was thinking about that.
Jacob Paulsen: She says in here that she knew him.
Jacob Paulsen: So this is not like some random stranger that followed her while she was walking
Jacob Paulsen: through the neighborhood.
Jacob Paulsen: This is probably a neighbor, co-worker, someone who knows her from something.
Jacob Paulsen: Or a current lover. Right, right.
Jacob Paulsen: We don't know. But someone who flipped the switch, went over the edge,
Jacob Paulsen: and decided today's the day I'm going to go nuts, do something nasty,
Jacob Paulsen: horrible, violent, evil.
Jacob Paulsen: And yeah, so...
Jacob Paulsen: Today's the day.
Riley Bowman: This is one of the big reasons why I get my dander up, so to speak, when, you know,
Riley Bowman: politicians and government leaders put in place gun control related measures
Riley Bowman: that require things like waiting periods on purchasing and obtaining a gun or
Riley Bowman: having to get certain training before you can purchase and obtain or carry or own a gun.
Riley Bowman: Uh because this is
Riley Bowman: a this is a perfect story of a
Riley Bowman: situation like this could have been something that was already known sure
Riley Bowman: you know like there was a pattern of abuse or something happening here she gets
Riley Bowman: a gun to defend herself knowing that's a problem and that may not be able to
Riley Bowman: happen in situations like this uh with similar victims out there if there's
Riley Bowman: gun control laws in place that prevent you know people being able to exercise
Riley Bowman: those second amendment rights well we
Jacob Paulsen: Know those incidents have happened i've seen them testify in courts you know
Jacob Paulsen: i i had blank concern went bought gun couldn't obtain it for x number of days
Jacob Paulsen: and while i was waiting you know i suffered the attack and it was coming so
Jacob Paulsen: you know those things have happened absolutely it's not okay.
Riley Bowman: Now this next story is out of chesterfield county virginia uh this is a very
Riley Bowman: similar story which is why i included it because i was like these are i mean
Riley Bowman: here's two instances instances that happened within days of each other in different, you know,
Riley Bowman: areas of the country, different cities, different locations,
Riley Bowman: very, very, very similar.
Riley Bowman: This happened again in Virginia. It was a 38-year-old man. It was shot and killed early one morning.
Riley Bowman: And it specifically says in the article, in fact, the headline is 38-year-old
Riley Bowman: man killed in justifiable homicide. So they are investigating this and making
Riley Bowman: the assumption right from the get-go, this was a justifiable homicide. Well, why is that?
Riley Bowman: Well, it says that officers arrived at the scene.
Riley Bowman: The initial report was an assault with a deadly weapon. It says they arrived,
Riley Bowman: they found a man, now identifies 38-year-old man.
Riley Bowman: We generally don't give names of bad guys on the show here. With multiple gunshot
Riley Bowman: wounds. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Riley Bowman: It says it started as a domestic dispute after he had assaulted a woman and
Riley Bowman: threatened her life while brandishing a firearm.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah.
Riley Bowman: Okay. So, again, domestic dispute. Violence is occurring.
Riley Bowman: Abuse or assault is happening of a woman. This man. And in this case,
Riley Bowman: it says he was brandishing a firearm.
Riley Bowman: She shot him multiple times and killed him right there. Now,
Riley Bowman: it doesn't say whether she took this man's gun, managed to take it away from
Riley Bowman: him, or if she had her own gun. And frankly, it's irrelevant.
Riley Bowman: But here again, a very, very similar situation of man assaulting a woman,
Riley Bowman: and she defended herself.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, domestic means there's some sort of existing relationship there, right?
Jacob Paulsen: So is this the ex-boyfriend, the ex-whatever?
Jacob Paulsen: Or current. The current, we
Jacob Paulsen: don't know. Yeah, I mean, the husband and wife for all we know, I suppose.
Jacob Paulsen: Smacking her around, gets the gun, makes a threat with the gun.
Jacob Paulsen: Oh, crap. Some robber retrieves her own gun, probably, presumably.
Jacob Paulsen: And bang, bang. Game over.
Riley Bowman: Yep. Good for her. I mean, it's terrible. We don't wish these things upon people.
Riley Bowman: But if you are going to be violently assaulted, it's justified to use deadly force in response.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure she has to deal with that, right? That's tough.
Riley Bowman: But, like, good for you because the alternative is that you're now the one that's
Riley Bowman: dead potentially, right? So...
Riley Bowman: So that's why I say it's good for her because victims don't deserve to die.
Riley Bowman: Bad people sometimes deserve to die.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm really upset with this next one.
Riley Bowman: Tell us why.
Jacob Paulsen: I was just in Wichita.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, I saw that too.
Jacob Paulsen: And I had great food there both times. On the way to the Guardian Conference, we ate at Bite Me.
Riley Bowman: Bite Me Barbecue.
Jacob Paulsen: It was fantastic. It was. It was great. They had this pickle bar that Riley
Jacob Paulsen: was into full of disgusting pickled things.
Jacob Paulsen: That's not true. It was delicious. Not everything pickled is disgusting, just the pickles.
Riley Bowman: But actually, no, seriously, the ribs there were fantastic. Sausage was excellent.
Jacob Paulsen: Brisket was on point, and it was good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the ribs were good. Sausage was good, yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: And then on the way home, I don't know if you weren't with us that time,
Jacob Paulsen: but we stopped at another barbecue place.
Riley Bowman: In Wichita.
Jacob Paulsen: In Wichita. Crap. What was the name?
Riley Bowman: And you mentioned the name, and I was like, I think that's one we stopped at several years ago.
Jacob Paulsen: We did, but during lunch, you see, they have an all-you-can-eat barbecue buffet.
Jacob Paulsen: First time I've ever seen it in my life.
Jacob Paulsen: Smoked meat, all you can eat. They had three different ribs. They had a honey glazed.
Jacob Paulsen: Right? They had the St. Louis dry rub. They had a short rib.
Jacob Paulsen: They had two different bristles. They had a lean and a moist.
Jacob Paulsen: They had hot links. They had sirloin, thinly sliced smoked sirloin. Ooh. Yeah, right?
Jacob Paulsen: Turkey, chicken, mac and cheese, a couple of potato salads, a traditional garden salad bar.
Jacob Paulsen: All you could eat at lunch. I was thinking it was like $22.99 with drinks.
Riley Bowman: That's amazing.
Jacob Paulsen: It was unbelievable sign me up yeah hold on i'm gonna look this place up because i feel like we i.
Riley Bowman: I was so i'm you know we eat at the same place on the way there i'm speaking
Riley Bowman: as though i didn't eat at the second place because that's true because my uh
Riley Bowman: i was there with my family we traveled there to the car game conference we took
Riley Bowman: a different route home uh unfortunately
Jacob Paulsen: B and c barbecue yeah so for those of you in you know the wichita area if you
Jacob Paulsen: haven't had a b and c or bite me barbecue like i don't you know but go for lunch
Jacob Paulsen: get to all you get okay Okay,
Jacob Paulsen: so anyway, that's why I'm a little frustrated that this happened in Wichita.
Jacob Paulsen: I have such like a good positive association with Wichita right now,
Jacob Paulsen: and this is like ruining it.
Jacob Paulsen: But this one is terrible and probably one of those that could have been avoidable.
Jacob Paulsen: This is another one of those I made some poor decisions, and I put myself in
Jacob Paulsen: a situation that I didn't necessarily have to be in.
Jacob Paulsen: And because I'm in that situation, I'm forced now to make some compromised decisions. Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: Right. So it's hard to we sit here, we arm armchair quarterback these situations.
Jacob Paulsen: But the real tragic part is when it's like, yeah, you had to make some tough
Jacob Paulsen: calls, but you would not have had to make those tough decisions if you'd made
Jacob Paulsen: some good decisions in the outset. Right.
Riley Bowman: Well, you haven't given any of the details of this yet, so I guess I'll take the lead on that now.
Riley Bowman: So two victims involved here. All right. This is how it's described,
Riley Bowman: but really what it is is one of those is the true victim.
Riley Bowman: The other one is a 15-year-old perpetrator of the initial crime.
Riley Bowman: What happened is a 30-year-old homeowner discovered the teenager was outside
Riley Bowman: rummaging through his vehicle.
Riley Bowman: Okay, so that's the first lesson
Riley Bowman: learned. I mean, rummaging through a vehicle. I've heard this before.
Riley Bowman: Often means vehicles not secured properly in the first place.
Riley Bowman: Now, it could have been they broke in and they're rummaging through.
Riley Bowman: But anyway, point is, teenagers rummaging through this guy's vehicle.
Riley Bowman: He goes outside his home to confront this 15-year-old boy.
Riley Bowman: And upon doing so, a 15-year-old fires a weapon, hitting the homeowner.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, the way it's written in the news story gives me the impression that's
Jacob Paulsen: like, hey, what are you doing? Bang.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: Right? like an immediate like oh crap like i've been caught fire now.
Riley Bowman: Yep yep the homeowner's
Riley Bowman: hit like just like that i mean he could have
Riley Bowman: been out of the fight immediately however he is
Riley Bowman: able to return fire and he hits the 15 year old suspect uh does say the incident
Riley Bowman: remains under investigation i mean it seems like a clear-cut use of deadly force
Riley Bowman: in defense in terms you know from the homeowner's perspective but the problem
Riley Bowman: here and the lessons to be learned are we've We've talked about this how many times over the years.
Riley Bowman: Vehicle crime, especially where it's just, where it's getting stolen,
Riley Bowman: broken into, things are getting stolen from your property.
Riley Bowman: So in other words, property crime in general, that happens outside of your home,
Riley Bowman: outside the confines of the walls of your home,
Riley Bowman: And it's risky when you get yourself involved by going outside to confront or
Riley Bowman: encounter or try to stop said property crime from occurring.
Jacob Paulsen: You are dropping the drawbridge and walking out of your castle across the moat
Jacob Paulsen: into plain open land and saying, what's going on out here?
Riley Bowman: Yes, 100%. I like how you said that. Wow. I did it.
Jacob Paulsen: I impressed Riley.
Riley Bowman: That's a great way of explaining it.
Riley Bowman: You have your castle. You got your moat. You got the drawbridge up. Things are secure.
Riley Bowman: You are safe as could be. People can try to get across the moat.
Riley Bowman: People can try to throw a ladder and get over the wall.
Riley Bowman: They can try to bust through a door, bust through a window. That changes things.
Riley Bowman: But when you are the one that's willingly lowering the drawbridge and going out. Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: You're just like, hey, what are you doing out here? Not cool, man.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: Leave my horse alone.
Riley Bowman: I'm not going to say you don't have the right to do that.
Jacob Paulsen: Oh, sure, sure. You absolutely have the right.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. But it's a risky tactical play.
Jacob Paulsen: And you are the victim of a crime. Like, no question about it.
Jacob Paulsen: Not cool. But yes, tactically, you've made some decisions that have put you
Jacob Paulsen: in a compromised position.
Riley Bowman: Right. And that's what happened here. And it nearly caught. Well,
Riley Bowman: all we have is they were hit. They were injured.
Riley Bowman: It's entirely possible this homeowner. We don't have an updated report on this.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. It's entirely possible he could still pass away from his gunshot wound.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. According to the report, they're both in critical condition.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. Right. Right.
Jacob Paulsen: And some marksmen, by the way, we don't see a lot of 15-year-old car burglars get this lucky.
Riley Bowman: They do get lucky.
Jacob Paulsen: They do get lucky sometimes.
Riley Bowman: Maybe it was very close quarters.
Jacob Paulsen: We don't know. My 15-year-old's breaking into your car. He could probably get
Jacob Paulsen: you. He could shoot. So he's not 15 anymore.
Riley Bowman: Right.
Jacob Paulsen: So, yes, the takeaway here is compromised decision, now a compromised position,
Jacob Paulsen: and now we're in a gunfight.
Riley Bowman: We don't want to be in gunfights if we can help it. In this case,
Riley Bowman: now the gunfight was forced upon the homeowner.
Riley Bowman: What started as a property crime now turned into a gunfight that was forced upon homeowner.
Riley Bowman: Homeowner was fortunate in being able to return fire, which probably saved his life at that point.
Riley Bowman: But, again, he could still lose his life. as it states, they are both still in critical condition.
Jacob Paulsen: Or he could have to live the rest of his life knowing he killed a 15-year-old boy.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. Which, I mean, yeah. That has an emotional cost as well, for sure.
Riley Bowman: Uh let's see here oh this next one oh this is i
Jacob Paulsen: Am so lost i'm like reading through it right now trying to see if i could like
Jacob Paulsen: sensibly create a narrative in my mind to share with our audience.
Riley Bowman: It is it is complex uh
Riley Bowman: this happened in phoenix is our second story today that was in the
Riley Bowman: phoenix area it says here the headline is police identify
Riley Bowman: three killed in home invasion shooting in
Riley Bowman: south phoenix okay so the
Riley Bowman: way this starts let me see if i can explain it i'll hand it to you and you can
Riley Bowman: do some further explanation all right but police respond to a call they initially
Riley Bowman: discover a crash there's two cars
Riley Bowman: involved in a crash officers check in on that crash and one of the men
Riley Bowman: involved in that crash has been shot and he's inside the
Riley Bowman: vehicle and he's been shot oh okay all right we got we got
Riley Bowman: an issue here you know a crash and guy in vehicle has been shot
Riley Bowman: they learn moments later it says
Riley Bowman: that a second man was found shot outside a
Riley Bowman: burger king so presumably in the
Riley Bowman: area okay okay so now we've got okay first of all dude in car who was shot dude
Riley Bowman: found another dude found a burger king shot okay and then oh and he tells the
Riley Bowman: detectives that he was shot at a home and gives the location.
Riley Bowman: Okay. All right. All right. So that's two. Both of those victims were taken
Riley Bowman: to the hospital and they're expected to recover, it says.
Riley Bowman: They then go to the home to investigate. They learn that two men entered the
Riley Bowman: home, one of whom was armed and presumably homeowner says a person inside the
Riley Bowman: house shot and killed one of them.
Jacob Paulsen: This is freaking crazy.
Riley Bowman: It is crazy. Then says the resident retreated within the home.
Riley Bowman: Hey, I'm going to give props right there. And as far as, hey,
Riley Bowman: home invasion, resident shoots, kills one, retreats, presumably back to a position
Riley Bowman: of defense, place of cover.
Riley Bowman: Okay. That's awesome. We don't hear about that very often.
Riley Bowman: But then he says he returned when he hears another family member in the home calling for help.
Riley Bowman: We've talked about this very scenario where it's like, hey, if possible,
Riley Bowman: you want to, what's our what's our acronym ifdr
Riley Bowman: right isolate the family isolate the family defend the rooms
Riley Bowman: the ideal situation is if you have a home invasion get
Riley Bowman: your whole family isolated in one one defensible spot
Riley Bowman: defend them from that defensible location um but
Riley Bowman: are there situations where there may be family members in other parts of the
Riley Bowman: home now we have a situation where we may not be able to just simply isolate
Riley Bowman: and and defend a particular room or location so the homeowner goes back from
Riley Bowman: their place of retreat, shoots and kills a second intruder.
Riley Bowman: Again, trying to defend a family stacking bodies
Jacob Paulsen: In the story. Right.
Riley Bowman: And then it just says, during the gunfire, three men were shot and killed.
Riley Bowman: Says the alleged intruders found dead inside the home. There's two of them,
Riley Bowman: right? There's two intruders that said that were found dead inside the home.
Riley Bowman: And it said two had intruded in the home. A third man was found deceased in a nearby alley.
Riley Bowman: And we have no idea who that is.
Jacob Paulsen: That's where it was. Yeah, but we can't connect him to the narrative.
Riley Bowman: And again, there's still two other people who are shot and injured elsewhere.
Jacob Paulsen: Here's the best construction I can give of this. What is going on? We have a home invasion.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: In that home invasion, there are at least two people directly involved in the home invasion.
Jacob Paulsen: But presumably, there's five. At least five.
Riley Bowman: Maybe there's five or three others that the homeowner doesn't know about.
Jacob Paulsen: Right, right. Maybe the homeowner only saw the two.
Riley Bowman: The two go inside the house and a couple others are outside the house.
Jacob Paulsen: Unclear.
Riley Bowman: Presumably, one of these guys is a getaway car.
Jacob Paulsen: But all five get shot. So bear in mind that they're not hanging out down the road.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. Like we have five presumably BGs who get shot. I mean, this is wild.
Jacob Paulsen: So let me postulate a theory. Five BGs go into the house.
Jacob Paulsen: Homeowner doesn't see them all, but it's like, oh, crap, bad guys.
Jacob Paulsen: Bang, bang, bang, bang. I think I got one. Okay. Retreat.
Jacob Paulsen: Oh, I hear screams for help. That sounds like my insert family member title here.
Jacob Paulsen: Re-engage in the fight. Oh, they're still there. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.
Jacob Paulsen: Another body goes down. They stop shooting back. It's like, I think I got another one.
Jacob Paulsen: The cops roll up. They're like, we got two bodies. He's like,
Jacob Paulsen: yeah, I think I got both of them.
Jacob Paulsen: Then they start doing some, like connecting some dots. Like,
Jacob Paulsen: well, we got a third body in the alley.
Jacob Paulsen: Plus that dude who was shot in the car that was in the crash that we drove past.
Jacob Paulsen: Plus, a little later, we get a report from another guy who's bleeding out in
Jacob Paulsen: front of a Burger King in town who says that he was shot over here at this address.
Jacob Paulsen: So we got five total people who have been shot.
Jacob Paulsen: Three of which are dead and two are injured. So this homeowner,
Jacob Paulsen: I'd love to see the round count, man.
Jacob Paulsen: We were dispensing some lead in this game.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, I mean, we don't – this is a crazy,
Jacob Paulsen: Wild story.
Riley Bowman: Here's a couple of lessons that we can take away from this. Quite often,
Riley Bowman: home invasions involve multiple home invaders or intruders. Yes. Okay?
Jacob Paulsen: Almost always.
Riley Bowman: Be prepared for that. Oh, yes, absolutely.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, five may be a high number on average, but one is very unlikely.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, I mean, it happens, but we see so many instances where there's multiple
Riley Bowman: threats involved, right?
Riley Bowman: So that's important to know and understand and take away from this.
Riley Bowman: The other thing is just because you think there's only two that you see here,
Riley Bowman: there could be others elsewhere.
Riley Bowman: So it's not just that there could be multiple, but it also be prepared for them
Riley Bowman: to be in multiple locations, like completely different locations.
Riley Bowman: Who knows what happened there?
Riley Bowman: It could be, by the way, Jacob, that some of these guys that got shot were shot by their own.
Riley Bowman: You know, bad guys that shot, you know, a fellow bad guy, you know,
Riley Bowman: because they just start, you know, popping off rounds in the direction of the
Riley Bowman: homeowner and get one of their own people.
Riley Bowman: I've wondered, by the way, we don't know this for a fact.
Riley Bowman: I'm reading into this, but it does say in the story that the third man found
Riley Bowman: dead in the alley says that he may have been trying to escape.
Riley Bowman: And initially i read that as home intruder
Riley Bowman: trying to escape gets shot at some point you know we
Riley Bowman: don't know how and when but then he dies in the alleyway but
Riley Bowman: remember how there's a family member screaming for help and
Riley Bowman: it made me think i mean i don't think this is what happened
Riley Bowman: but could this be a potential uh answer that maybe that's a home uh family member
Riley Bowman: that decided to get out of their bedroom part of the house you know trying to
Riley Bowman: escape the violence that's taking place because they're
Jacob Paulsen: Not named as the person found in the alley is not named as a suspect yeah but
Jacob Paulsen: they're specifically named as a victim yeah so yeah that could be maybe maybe
Jacob Paulsen: we only have four intruders and one good guy that got shot and died yeah yeah unclear.
Riley Bowman: Clearly i mean these kinds of situations are and can be and are messy yeah and
Riley Bowman: you got to have a good solid plan in place of how you're going to defend your
Riley Bowman: family and defend your home.
Jacob Paulsen: Do you remember the home invasion story we covered where we had security video?
Jacob Paulsen: And it was a woman. It was the homeowner. And we have four or five guys in the house.
Jacob Paulsen: And she comes out of a room shooting back. And they all scatter like the wind.
Jacob Paulsen: And she follows several of them
Jacob Paulsen: to the front door. And she's sort of like shooting through the front door.
Jacob Paulsen: And then on the camera, unbeknownst to her, another bad guy runs right past
Jacob Paulsen: her, behind her, out a side door.
Jacob Paulsen: Because he was in a different room. She has no idea that he was there the whole time. Like,
Jacob Paulsen: So, yeah, I think, you know, these things get crazy real fast.
Jacob Paulsen: And, no, I think everything we know about the homeowner's actions seem pretty good.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, I mean, the homeowner, yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: For all we know, this homeowner knows that they shot and capped four dudes. I don't know.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. I mean, it seems that it was a justified use of deadly force in defense
Riley Bowman: of the home and the family.
Jacob Paulsen: Bullets were flying both ways.
Riley Bowman: So, wild, wild, wild story. Wild West, dang near.
Jacob Paulsen: Hey, we got a question here from a live viewer.
Riley Bowman: I actually was going to point that one to you.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah.
Riley Bowman: I think this is worth answering.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. The hard question is probably no, but the question is,
Jacob Paulsen: can I put my gun under my pillow while sleeping?
Jacob Paulsen: I suppose you can. I mean, I don't know any reason why you can't.
Jacob Paulsen: It would seem like it's probably perfectly legal.
Riley Bowman: You can.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. I just don't think it's a good idea. Right. In fact, and I've taken a lot of flack for this.
Jacob Paulsen: There's a lot of things I've taken flack for. but back in i don't
Jacob Paulsen: know 2018 or something i did this uh we
Jacob Paulsen: wrote this article i did this little study where i put
Jacob Paulsen: a camera on me laying in my bed and i
Jacob Paulsen: you know a buzzer would go off i'd jump out of the bed i'd
Jacob Paulsen: grab a cert pistol and i'd shoot a target on that was like taped to the door
Jacob Paulsen: of my bedroom and the software was able to measure the time between the buzzer
Jacob Paulsen: and the impact the little laser on the target and i did you know probably 40
Jacob Paulsen: or 50 iterations of this but i every seven or so iterations i changed the type of uh,
Jacob Paulsen: staging system for the gun. So in one case, the gun just sitting on the nightstand.
Jacob Paulsen: And the next, I put it in XYZ style of safe. And then this other style of safe,
Jacob Paulsen: and we're testing different.
Jacob Paulsen: The idea was to see how much faster really is it to just have the gun sitting
Jacob Paulsen: there under the pillow or on the nightstand or whatever, versus me having to retrieve from a safe.
Jacob Paulsen: And then looking at the safes, are some of these safes faster to retrieve the gun from than others?
Jacob Paulsen: And the key takeaway, way if you
Jacob Paulsen: go read it basically is that the the time
Jacob Paulsen: gap the difference like how much slower is it to retrieve
Jacob Paulsen: the gun from a safe that's sitting on my nightstand versus the gun
Jacob Paulsen: just sitting on the nightstand is about one and a half seconds so
Jacob Paulsen: one and a half seconds slower to have to reach that's that was the best case
Jacob Paulsen: scenario safe some safes were much slower than that but the best case scenario
Jacob Paulsen: safe was one and a half seconds slower than the gun just sitting right there
Jacob Paulsen: on my nightstand so you know to each their own you have to make some decisions
Jacob Paulsen: about you know those kinds of things. For me, I'm happy.
Jacob Paulsen: It's not an issue for me to be slowed down one and a half seconds in exchange
Jacob Paulsen: for knowing that the firearm can't be picked up by the guy who walks into my
Jacob Paulsen: bedroom while I'm sleeping that broke into the house,
Jacob Paulsen: to know that the gun can't be retrieved by an unauthorized person when I wake
Jacob Paulsen: up in the morning and yawn and wander downstairs and leave it sitting there
Jacob Paulsen: on my nightstand, or to know that when I wake up in a semi-awake,
Jacob Paulsen: semi-dream state and think I have an intruder and grab my gun and shoot and
Jacob Paulsen: find out later it's my wife. Ask us how many times we've seen that story.
Jacob Paulsen: I don't have to worry about that happening. So I strongly discourage sleeping
Jacob Paulsen: with a gun under your pillow.
Jacob Paulsen: Frankly, I discourage sleeping with a gun unsecured at all.
Riley Bowman: 100%. You should – here's what I will say.
Riley Bowman: To the gun on a nightstand, gun under a pillow proposed solutions,
Riley Bowman: um don't ever storage don't
Riley Bowman: ever stage a firearm with a
Riley Bowman: trigger exposed because just in the act of grabbing the gun you can miss especially
Riley Bowman: when it's dark it's late you're tired you're half awake whatever and you accidentally
Riley Bowman: snag the trigger uh there we have some good commentary going on here where Davis, who is replying,
Riley Bowman: says, or use a single action and keep the safety on.
Riley Bowman: It's still possible to deactivate the safety.
Jacob Paulsen: Your pillow could do it while you're sleeping.
Riley Bowman: You know, so...
Jacob Paulsen: I train when I grab a gun to grab it in such a way that if there is a safety,
Jacob Paulsen: I disengage it and I hold it off.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. Davis also...
Riley Bowman: He commented here saying that this has happened to him in the night where he's
Riley Bowman: accidentally squeezed the trigger on his Glock 26 and had it go off.
Riley Bowman: So right there alone is good enough, you know, reason why not to do this. Whoa, red flag.
Riley Bowman: Alvin then replies saying, no, sir, I keep it in the pouch.
Riley Bowman: I don't know what a, you mean a holster or is it like a.
Riley Bowman: I don't know. But you say you don't trust it without the pouch being under your
Riley Bowman: pillow. Okay, at least you're doing something. Here's the thing, man.
Riley Bowman: We really recommend staging a firearm in a quick access vault, a pistol vault.
Riley Bowman: I get in and out of my gun, in and out of my quick access vault next to my bed
Riley Bowman: every day, sometimes multiple times a day.
Riley Bowman: I am so practiced in doing that.
Riley Bowman: It doesn't take me long at all. And I am not concerned about the amount of time it takes to do so.
Riley Bowman: In fact, what I am concerned about is me being awakened in the night and reacting
Riley Bowman: to something so quickly before I can actually start thinking with a clear mind.
Riley Bowman: And the couple of seconds it takes for me to roll out of the bed,
Riley Bowman: enter in my code in my quick access vault and retrieve my gun,
Riley Bowman: at least is some amount of time where I can start thinking clearly about what's
Riley Bowman: going on and how I'm going to respond to it.
Jacob Paulsen: It's forcing cognition.
Riley Bowman: 100%. So that's where my answer would be as well. So good question and appreciate
Riley Bowman: you tuning into the podcast today.
Riley Bowman: We've got a couple more stories here still to wrap up.
Riley Bowman: We've got here.
Riley Bowman: Let's see here. This one was out of.
Riley Bowman: It's loading. There we go. Freeborn County. I'm not quite sure where that is.
Jacob Paulsen: Aiden and Freeborn County.
Riley Bowman: Let's see if we can. Minnesota. This is in Minnesota. Freeborn County Sheriff's
Riley Bowman: Office is a reporting agency.
Riley Bowman: I think it's Alden A-L-D-E-N Minnesota
Riley Bowman: We've had a couple interesting stories today that involved people that knew each other.
Riley Bowman: This is another one it's a little bit different context than the earlier sexual
Riley Bowman: assaults but this says here Sheriff's Office releases names of men killed,
Riley Bowman: others injured in rural Alden
Riley Bowman: Basically what sounds like happened here is you have a couple of elderly or senior citizen parents
Riley Bowman: with an adult son that lives at home with them and another adult son that
Riley Bowman: has some kind of protection order against him.
Riley Bowman: Restraining order. Yeah, he's not supposed to be there. He's not supposed to
Riley Bowman: show up there. He's supposed to keep away from his parents, his family.
Riley Bowman: His brother. There's some kind of history here is what it would seem, okay, by nature of that.
Jacob Paulsen: It does say something about the restraining order having expired.
Riley Bowman: Against the brother.
Jacob Paulsen: Oh, okay.
Riley Bowman: But it doesn't say that was the case with regards to...
Jacob Paulsen: Restraining orders prevented him from being at the residence or having contact with his parents.
Jacob Paulsen: A previous harassment restraining order preventing him from having contact with his brothers expired.
Jacob Paulsen: He also has two outstanding arrest warrants for violations of these restraining
Jacob Paulsen: orders against his parents. Okay, I'm following now.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, so there is a history here. A history of violence.
Jacob Paulsen: Of restraining orders not working.
Riley Bowman: A history of restraining orders, a history of violating those restraining orders.
Riley Bowman: Basically what happens here is this, this son, again, he's an adult son.
Riley Bowman: I mean, he's 40, uh, something years old.
Riley Bowman: He, he goes to his parents' house when he's not supposed to.
Riley Bowman: Uh, he apparently attacks his family.
Riley Bowman: Again, there's his parents involved and a brother, all three,
Riley Bowman: meaning mom, dad, and brother have to be treated from injuries as a result of
Riley Bowman: this altercation with this brother, this son.
Riley Bowman: And it says the parents were injured with blunt force injuries.
Riley Bowman: The brother also received injuries. One of them, I'm not sure if it says actually
Riley Bowman: who, Jacob, but somebody in that home shot the brother violating the protective order.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, unclear. Found with gunshot wounds to the chest.
Riley Bowman: Yep. So, and he is, he's shot and killed. Okay. It's a sad, sad, tragic story.
Jacob Paulsen: He was beating others with a steel pipe.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. Again, the blunt force injuries.
Jacob Paulsen: And he was believed his last known residence was outside the state.
Jacob Paulsen: So this is probably not something you really see coming. It's like,
Jacob Paulsen: ah, we don't think he's around. He's gone now.
Jacob Paulsen: Been a rough 10, 20, 30, whatever years. And all of a sudden he shows up with a pipe.
Riley Bowman: The restraining order is still in effect. It's probably not been that long.
Jacob Paulsen: It's been a rough while. But we currently believe he's out of state.
Jacob Paulsen: And then he shows up with a pipe and starts beating everyone.
Riley Bowman: Yeah i mean so this is
Riley Bowman: again this is a troubled individual clearly has a
Riley Bowman: history with his family they've they have
Riley Bowman: obviously gotten restraining orders against him um he has a grudge or whatever
Riley Bowman: shows up to uh to take action against them and somebody in that home shoots
Riley Bowman: and kills him so that's the justified save story here and uh it's it's sad it's
Riley Bowman: tragic but uh good on them for being able to defend themselves and prevent other
Riley Bowman: people from being killed
Riley Bowman: Uh, is there another comment there?
Jacob Paulsen: Well, as a follow-up to our nightstand conversation, I was trying to see how that went.
Riley Bowman: Oh yeah. So Davis just adding, you know, again, kind of, you said that something
Riley Bowman: like this, any intruder is going to know immediately to look for the nightstand
Riley Bowman: or the drawer for a pistol and stop you before you can get it or take it away.
Riley Bowman: That certainly could happen.
Riley Bowman: And it sounds like you've got to
Riley Bowman: keep this guy away from the house before someone really gets hurt. Yeah.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. Referring to, um, presumably the story we were just talking about. Yeah.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, but as you mentioned, as you alluded to, Jacob, restraining orders are just that.
Riley Bowman: They're a piece of paper that supposedly – I mean, what it is is if somebody
Riley Bowman: violates a restraining order, gives you the authority, the power to arrest that
Riley Bowman: individual. Which he has. It doesn't actually
Jacob Paulsen: Have warrants for having a restraining order. But I mean, this is not to discourage
Jacob Paulsen: you from getting a restraining order.
Jacob Paulsen: It's just that we don't want it to become this false sense of security that,
Jacob Paulsen: oh, I got this paper. I'm safe now. Yep, exactly.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. This next story is our second to last one.
Riley Bowman: I probably could have found one, but I thought the detail in this X or Twitter post was good enough.
Riley Bowman: That's where I found it, stumbled upon it.
Riley Bowman: This is a story out of Chicago.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, I think it was Chicago. Chicago Police.
Riley Bowman: There it is. Police Department. Yep. So this involves a contractor of some kind,
Riley Bowman: a construction worker who is working on a job.
Riley Bowman: And why don't you tell folks what happened here, Jacob?
Jacob Paulsen: This one I'm also trying to put
Jacob Paulsen: together. But basically, so we got our construction worker doing his deal.
Jacob Paulsen: And a group of people pull up at the location. Yeah.
Riley Bowman: Apparently, one of them is a known aspiring rap artist.
Jacob Paulsen: I guess.
Riley Bowman: He's known as Glizzy the Tweaker.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, I mean, apparently he's known enough that when we tweet about him, we can just say his name.
Riley Bowman: And I said that because I think I saw another social media post somewhere.
Riley Bowman: That that identified him as being an aspiring it doesn't say it in this one
Riley Bowman: but being an aspiring rap artist but anyway
Jacob Paulsen: So our contractor says that he believes he was if uh that he was part of a robbery
Jacob Paulsen: gone wrong so presumably these people are you know maybe they think the house
Jacob Paulsen: is empty or i don't know what's going on but they they decide to uh you know
Jacob Paulsen: rob the house is the perception here yep.
Riley Bowman: And it's a contractor that's working at this
Jacob Paulsen: House right yeah construction contractor yep so They enter the house.
Jacob Paulsen: I guess it doesn't say that, but presumably they enter the house.
Jacob Paulsen: He fires shots at them. It specifies that he has an concealed carry license. He fires shots at them.
Jacob Paulsen: Then they get away in a vehicle, minus the two people that were shot.
Riley Bowman: The tweaker got killed.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, the tweaker's done.
Riley Bowman: That robbery did not go the way they hoped it would go.
Riley Bowman: This reminds me back when I used to be still in the construction industry. Jacob.
Riley Bowman: I didn't always do this, but as I became more serious about concealed carry,
Riley Bowman: I started carrying concealed even when I was working.
Riley Bowman: It wasn't always convenient. It wasn't always easy. It wasn't always comfortable.
Riley Bowman: I had to get sometimes creative about how I carried because if I was wearing
Riley Bowman: tool bags or tool belt, that sometimes was challenging.
Riley Bowman: But I had heard enough things and seen enough things happen and actually worked
Riley Bowman: on a couple of jobs in some not so great areas of town.
Riley Bowman: I installed cabinets in the Five Points neighborhood in Denver,
Riley Bowman: which anybody knows Five Points.
Riley Bowman: I mean, it's an area that's coming back. It's being kind of turned around,
Riley Bowman: made it a little bit nicer than it was, but crime was still not super great in that area.
Riley Bowman: And so I started carrying as a contractor.
Riley Bowman: And yeah, so here's an example of where that came in handy.
Jacob Paulsen: I wanted to add a detail that I think we've neglected to mention,
Jacob Paulsen: which is that multiple guns were recovered from the scene.
Jacob Paulsen: So this was suggested to the contractor to not just see some people and start
Jacob Paulsen: shooting them, but that he had reasonable cause to...
Riley Bowman: There were multiple people, likely multiple of them armed, that tried to rob him.
Riley Bowman: He shot and successfully defended himself and killed Glizzy the tweaker.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, too bad for Glizzy. It's too bad for him.
Riley Bowman: All right, final story. This happened in Florida, Pembroke Pines.
Riley Bowman: A woman was taken to the hospital, a suspect taken into custody after a shooting,
Riley Bowman: it says here. It was a Tuesday morning.
Riley Bowman: A 24-year-old suspect was arrested on attempted murder charges.
Riley Bowman: That happened just before 11 a.m., and it started as a domestic incident between known parties.
Riley Bowman: Seeing kind of a theme of today's episode here.
Riley Bowman: It says a woman was shot and taken to an area hospital for treatment.
Riley Bowman: A man related to the shooting was taken into custody by the police department.
Riley Bowman: The investigation remains ongoing. It says that one resident reported seeing
Riley Bowman: an all-out fight. Gunfight. Gunfight.
Riley Bowman: And he watched what he believed were two men opening fire on each other.
Riley Bowman: Don't know what led to that exactly.
Riley Bowman: But what happened unfortunately for a third party here was that there was a female that
Riley Bowman: got shot she was kind of caught in the crossfire oh that's right it does say
Riley Bowman: here that it started as she went to
Jacob Paulsen: The victim's house Tuesday and a dispute erupted between several people over
Jacob Paulsen: child custody so I think you have a blended family living together and one of
Jacob Paulsen: the children's fathers who's not part of the family shows up and that's that's
Jacob Paulsen: the yeah uh origin of the dispute.
Riley Bowman: What's interesting about this i included as a justified safe story we don't
Riley Bowman: know who the good party here is yeah
Jacob Paulsen: Not based on the info we have yeah.
Riley Bowman: Right uh we know that there's two men that start shooting each other presumably
Riley Bowman: one of them is the aggressor one is you know likely defending themselves.
Riley Bowman: So, I mean, it would seem as though it's the man coming to this home to initiate
Riley Bowman: this custody dispute, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the case.
Riley Bowman: And it reminds me of the case out of Texas a couple years ago, Jacob.
Riley Bowman: Remember this one where it was a child custody dispute?
Riley Bowman: A man shows up at a home. He's, you know,
Riley Bowman: trying to either collect his child or whatever and the
Riley Bowman: it's the man's ex-wife
Riley Bowman: and she's now with another man that man
Riley Bowman: uh comes out of the house
Riley Bowman: with a it was a ruger um if i recall the report on this was a ruger pistol carbine
Riley Bowman: pistol caliber carbine and he you know they're they're face to face and the
Riley Bowman: homeowner ends up firing around at the man's feet as a warning he's like it
Riley Bowman: back off, get out of, you know, get off my property kind of thing.
Riley Bowman: And the guy keeps pressing him and at that, and he kind of like makes a lunging
Riley Bowman: move. And at that point, the homeowner raises the rifle and shoots him in the chest, kills him.
Riley Bowman: Uh, if I'm not mistaken, uh, the homeowner faced charges on that.
Riley Bowman: I don't remember how that ended up resolving. Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: I don't remember either.
Riley Bowman: But, uh, anyway, it was a messy, messy situation.
Jacob Paulsen: Family is messy. Yeah. You know, and, and very few of the people watching or
Jacob Paulsen: listening to this have a world where you just don't have any drama in your family tree. There's drama.
Jacob Paulsen: It could be that you have – I was hanging out yesterday with a friend of mine.
Jacob Paulsen: We were talking about guns and stuff, and he's got an adult child who has a
Jacob Paulsen: history of theft and drugs and stuff.
Jacob Paulsen: That could be a member of your family who has that going on.
Jacob Paulsen: It could be you have restraining orders against members of your family.
Jacob Paulsen: It could be that you've adopted somebody or you're fostering a child or you
Jacob Paulsen: have a stepchild that, you know, has a questionable other parent.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, it's just family is messy and it's emotional and it leads to these situations.
Jacob Paulsen: Not always. It can. Just saying it can. Yeah.
Riley Bowman: We got to be careful. We got to be mindful. We got to be smart, make good decisions.
Riley Bowman: And in situations like this, I know it's tough.
Riley Bowman: I've been there as a third party. uh, growing up, I came from, from a blended family.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure.
Riley Bowman: And there were some custody challenges, uh, involving a stepsister of mine.
Riley Bowman: And, uh, that, uh, wasn't always, you know, it wasn't easy, you know,
Riley Bowman: unfortunately nothing, you know, like this happened obviously, but, um,
Riley Bowman: but emotions can run high and you gotta, gotta keep your head about yourself,
Riley Bowman: keep your wits about yourself, uh, allow attorneys and courts to do their job.
Riley Bowman: Um, You know, and yeah, because trying to solve problems yourself where emotions
Riley Bowman: run high is where things can get sticky really fast.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, less than fun.
Riley Bowman: So that, I think, brings us to a conclusion, at least of our stories here today.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, we got through them all.
Riley Bowman: So there's another Justified Saves episode for you. I didn't realize,
Riley Bowman: Jacob, it had been since the start of the summer, since we did our last Justified Saves episode.
Riley Bowman: So we'll try to get back on track of doing our Justified Saves more regularly.
Riley Bowman: We like to try to do this at least once a month.
Riley Bowman: There's generally no shortage of stories to cover.
Jacob Paulsen: No, that's not the problem.
Riley Bowman: So, yeah, just a matter of making sure we organize those episodes and put them together for you.
Riley Bowman: Hopefully you guys enjoy them and get something out of them.
Riley Bowman: Let us know if that's the case.
Riley Bowman: You're always welcome to email us, podcast.concealedcarry.com,
Riley Bowman: to let us know how we're doing with the podcast, to ask any questions you may
Riley Bowman: have. We're always still open to taking questions.
Riley Bowman: It seems like, you know, that kind of comes and goes sometimes where we get
Riley Bowman: maybe a couple emails back to back and then go months and don't hear from people sometimes.
Riley Bowman: We definitely are interested in your questions um and we're also interested
Riley Bowman: in you sending stories our way too if there's something that you think is relevant
Riley Bowman: and you would like to see us cover on the podcast we'll can't promise we'll
Riley Bowman: always do that but we do our best to if there's stories or things that are of
Riley Bowman: interest for our our audience we'd like to
Jacob Paulsen: Say most of the time we do address you know absolutely may that content does make its way into the.
Riley Bowman: Podcast absolutely so feel free again hit us up podcast at concealed carry.com
Riley Bowman: we appreciate you listening and being a part of the Concealed Carry podcast
Riley Bowman: and supporting us and our sponsors as well that make this possible.
Riley Bowman: Our sponsors again today were CCW Safe, which you can learn more at ccwsafe.com
Riley Bowman: and KSG Armory Holsters, which you can find at ksgarmory.com.
Riley Bowman: And so with that, we'll leave this one to a wrap.
Riley Bowman: To wrap it up, Jacob, train right, train often,
Jacob Paulsen: Train safe. So you can fight hard, fight fast, and fight true.
Riley Bowman: Take care, everyone.
Riley Bowman: A reminder that laws vary from place to place, and we encourage listeners to
Riley Bowman: seek local legal advice to understand applicable laws.
Riley Bowman: Concealed Carry, Inc., its brands and properties, and the Concealed Carry podcast
Riley Bowman: is not a legal service, nor are we attorneys at law.
Riley Bowman: We make our best faith effort to share Concealed Carry-related insights and
Riley Bowman: information about firearm-related incidents and the laws pertaining based on
Riley Bowman: our own understanding and experience.
Riley Bowman: But things can be different where you live, or laws may have changed by the
Riley Bowman: time you listen to this. We cannot be held liable for your actions based on
Riley Bowman: the information shared in this podcast.
Riley Bowman: Please exercise care with all things pertaining to firearm use,
Riley Bowman: concealed carry, and always practice following basic firearm safety rules.
Riley Bowman: More information about safety can be found at concealedcarry.com forward slash safety.