WEBVTT 00:00:15.459 --> 00:00:16.579 And welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.579 --> 00:00:22.079 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK. 00:00:23.759 --> 00:00:28.779 Today is September 25th, 2025, as we're recording this episode. 00:00:29.139 --> 00:00:32.559 I'm your host, Riley Bowman, and I'm joined today by a special guest. 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:36.319 We'll call him honorary co-host as well. I mean, he's been on the show more 00:00:36.319 --> 00:00:42.339 than once now, so he can have the honorary co-host chair now as well. 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:43.879 That's Charlie Perez. Hello, Charlie. 00:00:44.519 --> 00:00:47.219 Thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to our discussion. 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.999 Likewise. We'll get into that shortly. But first, today's episode is sponsored 00:00:52.999 --> 00:00:56.819 and brought to you by Guardian Nation. 00:00:57.219 --> 00:01:00.879 GuardianNation.com is a website where you can learn more. Guardian Nation is 00:01:00.879 --> 00:01:06.639 our membership program for people to get access to tons of training resources, 00:01:06.639 --> 00:01:09.819 including what we refer to as guardian university 00:01:09.819 --> 00:01:13.079 which is our video repository or video 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.199 library of hundreds of hours of content 00:01:16.199 --> 00:01:19.039 that you can learn a ton 00:01:19.039 --> 00:01:22.399 about concealed carry shooting defensive tactics. 00:01:22.399 --> 00:01:25.899 All kinds of things including very soon. 00:01:25.899 --> 00:01:28.699 We will have in the video library the 00:01:28.699 --> 00:01:31.859 guardian university library we will have a red dot pistol 00:01:31.859 --> 00:01:34.699 course that was that i filmed over 00:01:34.699 --> 00:01:37.599 the course of summer that'll be going live hopefully soon 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:40.459 so watch for that as well but guardian nation members 00:01:40.459 --> 00:01:43.479 get full and complete access to guardian university as well 00:01:43.479 --> 00:01:46.459 as discounts off of everything available for sale at 00:01:46.459 --> 00:01:49.799 concealed carry.com membership of things 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.499 like ccw safe you get discount off of that as well discounts off 00:01:53.499 --> 00:01:56.679 of the guardian conference each year 00:01:56.679 --> 00:02:00.379 which we just got done hosting this last weekend we had 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:03.339 a great time in oklahoma city for the 00:02:03.339 --> 00:02:06.759 fifth year now for the guardian conference and 00:02:06.759 --> 00:02:10.759 in fact tickets are available right now for the 2026 guardian 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:14.259 conference and again guardian nation members save 00:02:14.259 --> 00:02:18.079 big like 250 bucks or something like that um off 00:02:18.079 --> 00:02:21.079 of the ticket for the conference so 00:02:21.079 --> 00:02:24.799 you'll want to check that out and learn more at guardian nation.com you 00:02:24.799 --> 00:02:28.019 can also learn more about guardian university at guardian or concealed 00:02:28.019 --> 00:02:31.939 carry.com forward see concealed carry.com 00:02:31.939 --> 00:02:36.239 yeah forward slash guardian dash university and 00:02:36.239 --> 00:02:40.499 also if you want to learn more about the guardian conference go to guardianconference.com 00:02:40.499 --> 00:02:45.759 all right uh sponsors today you'll see on the banner for those you uh watching 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:51.039 the video uh ccw safe is also a major sponsor of the podcast they were a sponsor 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:52.419 of the Guardian conference as well. 00:02:52.619 --> 00:02:55.879 So just recognizing them with that here today. 00:02:56.789 --> 00:03:02.109 But we have today with us, well, I guess we could give you not only the honorary 00:03:02.109 --> 00:03:08.409 co-host seat of the podcast, Charlie, but also honorary sponsor in a way because 00:03:08.409 --> 00:03:11.249 you're here and you're representing yourself and we want to plug your stuff too. 00:03:11.249 --> 00:03:15.769 And Charlie's website is bigpandaperformance.com. 00:03:16.009 --> 00:03:22.989 If you want to learn more about Charlie and sign up for a training or buy his 00:03:22.989 --> 00:03:27.149 book called The Path of Focused Effort, that's available on his website as well. 00:03:28.469 --> 00:03:35.429 But yeah, if you don't know who Charlie Perez is, Charlie is a top 10 ranked 00:03:35.429 --> 00:03:39.669 competitive practical shooter. He very consistently finished in the top 10 at 00:03:39.669 --> 00:03:41.729 national level matches, national championships. 00:03:42.229 --> 00:03:44.349 He's a respected trainer and instructor. 00:03:44.949 --> 00:03:49.569 He's been doing classes here locally in the Colorado Front Range area for a 00:03:49.569 --> 00:03:52.949 number of years and also takes his classes out on the road periodically. 00:03:53.229 --> 00:03:57.029 I don't know how many times you get out on the road this last year, Charlie. 00:03:57.529 --> 00:04:01.369 I usually do like five or six classes on the road. Yeah. 00:04:01.689 --> 00:04:07.089 Yeah. And I've seen you all over the place, Texas and back east somewhere. 00:04:07.089 --> 00:04:08.189 I don't remember where that was now. 00:04:08.749 --> 00:04:10.609 Yeah, all the hot places. 00:04:11.169 --> 00:04:12.049 All the hot places. 00:04:15.089 --> 00:04:21.029 Yeah, so Grandmaster Shooter in multiple divisions. 00:04:22.969 --> 00:04:27.009 And, yeah, like I said, just a great – well, you're a great all-around guy, 00:04:27.029 --> 00:04:29.349 too. That's the thing. People like you. 00:04:29.529 --> 00:04:32.149 You're a big panda, hence the name, right? 00:04:32.469 --> 00:04:36.089 Yeah. Who doesn't like a big panda? Exactly. 00:04:40.129 --> 00:04:41.389 Thanks for that introduction 00:04:41.389 --> 00:04:44.949 Yeah and thanks for being on the podcast this evening with me. 00:04:45.951 --> 00:04:50.151 Yeah. I think today, like we were going to talk about, you know, 00:04:50.351 --> 00:04:53.271 why attend training, even as an instructor. 00:04:53.711 --> 00:04:58.911 And I think that it's important that we kind of set the ground rules of like, 00:04:59.051 --> 00:05:00.771 what really is an instructor? 00:05:00.951 --> 00:05:03.411 So what's your opinion on what an instructor is? 00:05:03.411 --> 00:05:07.651 Well, I like, you're really leaning into that co-host responsibility now by 00:05:07.651 --> 00:05:09.611 asking the questions, man. Yeah. 00:05:10.371 --> 00:05:17.231 I like it. So, you know, and in all transparency, you and I were discussing 00:05:17.231 --> 00:05:21.651 this a little bit before show and it is a very valid question. 00:05:22.971 --> 00:05:26.231 And, you know, because a lot of people, they may even see the title of this 00:05:26.231 --> 00:05:27.911 episode and think, well, I'm not an instructor, you know. 00:05:28.931 --> 00:05:34.351 So I'd like to think we're going to talk about attending training today from 00:05:34.351 --> 00:05:36.631 a perspective that I think can apply to everybody. 00:05:37.191 --> 00:05:39.991 But who's an instructor? It's a very fair question. 00:05:40.551 --> 00:05:45.651 I think traditionally speaking, people are like, well, if I got a NRA instructor 00:05:45.651 --> 00:05:50.771 certificate or something from another training organization or law enforcement 00:05:50.771 --> 00:05:54.271 or something like that, then, okay, that must make me an instructor. 00:05:54.271 --> 00:05:58.951 And certainly, I guess that technically qualifies someone as an instructor in 00:05:58.951 --> 00:06:02.611 terms of having the requisite certificate or whatever. 00:06:03.964 --> 00:06:09.504 Even that alone doesn't necessarily make an instructor or at least a quality instructor. 00:06:10.444 --> 00:06:14.024 Correct. And so just because you have a certificate does not mean that, 00:06:14.104 --> 00:06:16.524 you know, you're, you're very good at doing that. 00:06:16.544 --> 00:06:19.464 And I'm not speaking about anyone for, you know, in particular here, 00:06:19.524 --> 00:06:23.324 but that that's just a fact, but that's also true of, you know, 00:06:23.484 --> 00:06:27.244 you could say a teacher at, you know, my kids elementary school, 00:06:27.264 --> 00:06:29.944 I know teachers or I've known teachers. 00:06:29.944 --> 00:06:32.824 I'm not going to say there's one in particular right now. Actually, 00:06:32.904 --> 00:06:37.304 I think my teachers, my kids are pretty good right now, but I've known teachers 00:06:37.304 --> 00:06:40.604 that, yes, they have the training and the certificate as a teacher, 00:06:40.604 --> 00:06:43.304 but I'm like, how are you a teacher? 00:06:45.604 --> 00:06:46.444 Questionable effectivity. 00:06:48.104 --> 00:06:52.584 You should understand some basic things you clearly aren't understanding about 00:06:52.584 --> 00:06:55.004 working with, you know, children and trying to teach them stuff. 00:06:55.004 --> 00:07:02.124 Anyway, but so, you know, flip that around because just because you have a certificate 00:07:02.124 --> 00:07:05.584 doesn't necessarily make you an instructor or at least a good one. 00:07:06.004 --> 00:07:12.124 But just because you don't have the traditional, you know, training or certification 00:07:12.124 --> 00:07:18.264 background doesn't necessarily mean you aren't an instructor or a teacher at the very least. 00:07:18.264 --> 00:07:24.364 Um, and so, you know, it's kind of like when I first became an instructor, 00:07:24.704 --> 00:07:29.684 you know, by certification process, I had already been spending some time teaching 00:07:29.684 --> 00:07:32.224 people close to me about, 00:07:32.824 --> 00:07:35.704 you know, guns, about safety, about how to shoot a little bit. 00:07:36.384 --> 00:07:40.604 Now I, I, I apologize to anyone that received training from me back in those 00:07:40.604 --> 00:07:45.064 days, cause I didn't know a whole lot and I'm still learning even today. 00:07:45.064 --> 00:07:50.584 But I was doing a little teaching, and I would like to think that I was at least 00:07:50.584 --> 00:07:57.744 doing a good job with respect of teaching people safety because that was something 00:07:57.744 --> 00:07:59.104 that was always really important to me. 00:07:59.224 --> 00:08:02.624 I never really had a tolerance for a lack of safety, 00:08:02.624 --> 00:08:08.264 and I think that's something that more and more people today need because we 00:08:08.264 --> 00:08:14.564 need good representatives in all of the 2A community that are encouraging proper safety. 00:08:15.064 --> 00:08:19.364 So there's my initial answer. So what are your thoughts on who is an instructor? 00:08:19.724 --> 00:08:24.684 I think yours hits on a lot of the heavy hitters there, right? 00:08:24.784 --> 00:08:31.124 Like I think that it's important that we all kind of have a duality mindset 00:08:31.124 --> 00:08:36.324 of being both a teacher or instructor, 00:08:36.664 --> 00:08:39.984 whatever word you want to use for it, as well as a student. 00:08:39.984 --> 00:08:48.344 Because instructors or trainers or educators, they need to learn how to do that craft and, 00:08:49.156 --> 00:08:54.596 And they need to be a student in order to learn and be able to execute that craft effectively. 00:08:54.936 --> 00:08:59.136 And I think that just marksmen in general, like getting into, 00:08:59.136 --> 00:09:03.176 you know, plinking on the range, competitive shooting, 00:09:03.436 --> 00:09:07.276 self-defense, like any of that kind of stuff, it usually starts with a family 00:09:07.276 --> 00:09:13.556 member or a friend that starts with some base level of safety. 00:09:13.556 --> 00:09:17.916 And here's what the basics are of how to hold a firearm, the safety part of it. 00:09:18.536 --> 00:09:22.236 There's how we align sites. This is what we need to do to not displace our hits. 00:09:22.436 --> 00:09:23.556 You know, those kind of things. 00:09:24.276 --> 00:09:30.556 Now, I mean, the effectivity of that training can always be kind of subjective. 00:09:30.616 --> 00:09:36.236 Like what we learn as humans, you know, 10 years ago versus now, right? 00:09:36.456 --> 00:09:40.596 It's always going to be evolving. So I don't think we can beat each other up 00:09:40.596 --> 00:09:45.476 too bad about saying like my training so many years ago was poor. 00:09:45.776 --> 00:09:52.676 It was probably as effective as we knew of the skill set that we were trying to convey at the time. 00:09:53.376 --> 00:09:57.556 And also like the skill set of being a trainer and conveying content. 00:09:57.556 --> 00:10:05.196 So I think that the thing I'm trying to get to here is if anybody wants to get 00:10:05.196 --> 00:10:07.876 really good in any specific skill, 00:10:08.196 --> 00:10:09.556 whether it's firearms or anything 00:10:09.556 --> 00:10:15.016 else, it's going to be very difficult if you're not a trainer, right? 00:10:15.016 --> 00:10:20.236 If you don't have that assessment mindset to observe how things are being done, 00:10:20.516 --> 00:10:26.936 break it down, build a process on what is causing the lack of performance, 00:10:26.936 --> 00:10:31.196 and then let's rebuild that process to make it more efficient or more aggressively 00:10:31.196 --> 00:10:33.296 or whatever the thing is to make it happen, 00:10:33.616 --> 00:10:35.476 quote-unquote, gooder, right? 00:10:35.876 --> 00:10:40.036 If you don't have that skill, it's going to be very difficult to increase your 00:10:40.036 --> 00:10:44.756 skill set, right? So I think it's important that 00:10:45.636 --> 00:10:51.216 Everybody kind of put on that quote unquote trainer hat from time to time to 00:10:51.216 --> 00:10:56.616 exercise their own knowledge of the content they're trying to master themselves, right? 00:10:56.736 --> 00:11:00.276 Because the more you understand the content and the foundational information 00:11:00.276 --> 00:11:05.256 and how to convey that content, it makes it much easier for you yourself to 00:11:05.256 --> 00:11:07.576 understand and absorb that content. 00:11:10.036 --> 00:11:16.856 I like that. The way you articulated that, I think, is really quite profound, actually. 00:11:17.456 --> 00:11:29.956 It made me think about where I started to advance my own skills pretty quickly. 00:11:31.136 --> 00:11:35.236 If you look at my whole life, because I've been shooting for most of my life, 00:11:35.656 --> 00:11:40.816 there was kind of this slow burn, slow growth, right? Just little by little. 00:11:41.376 --> 00:11:45.056 Um, and then, you know, in a couple of little spots where maybe a little bit 00:11:45.056 --> 00:11:51.396 of a quick little jump up, um, but, uh, there was a period, you know, 00:11:52.376 --> 00:11:56.176 roughly a decade ago and, and, and even up through, you know, 00:11:56.436 --> 00:12:00.356 now we're, and again, there's still some little kind of plateaus and things 00:12:00.356 --> 00:12:01.016 here and there, but there was 00:12:01.016 --> 00:12:04.076 a point where like, really things started to take off for me skill wise. 00:12:04.416 --> 00:12:10.236 And as I, like what you just said made me think about is once I started, um, 00:12:11.527 --> 00:12:20.147 putting that trainer hat on with regards to myself and really looking at what I was doing. 00:12:21.367 --> 00:12:24.107 You got some friends there wanting to join. Yeah. 00:12:24.807 --> 00:12:25.547 Sorry about that. 00:12:27.987 --> 00:12:33.327 You know, I started looking at my, at what I was doing, you know, 00:12:33.467 --> 00:12:40.587 technique wise, what I understood good just in general about shooting and, 00:12:40.587 --> 00:12:47.107 and starting to really like look inward and evaluate myself with like, okay, what am I doing? 00:12:47.267 --> 00:12:49.507 How am I doing it? How well am I doing it? 00:12:51.227 --> 00:12:57.047 That led me to really start to improve. And so it was sort of a way of looking, 00:12:57.587 --> 00:13:00.527 you know, kind of being my own instructor in a way, which is hard to do. 00:13:00.947 --> 00:13:04.027 I think that's something that's, you know it's challenging 00:13:04.027 --> 00:13:07.487 to be self-aware and to 00:13:07.487 --> 00:13:10.287 be able to kind of look as if you're 00:13:10.287 --> 00:13:14.307 looking at yourself from a third person point of view um 00:13:14.307 --> 00:13:17.607 i mean you can literally do that by setting up a camera and filming yourself 00:13:17.607 --> 00:13:22.847 and seeing what you do which is a very legitimate approach but it's not the 00:13:22.847 --> 00:13:29.047 only thing is even then you i i've i've you know showed people video of them 00:13:29.047 --> 00:13:34.067 shooting before uh i've had a few people over the years you know even even pay to have me review, 00:13:35.007 --> 00:13:38.867 video of themselves shooting kind of a remote coaching session and 00:13:38.867 --> 00:13:41.727 you know they've clearly watched the video 00:13:41.727 --> 00:13:45.187 themselves shooting and you know many times i can point something out they sometimes 00:13:45.187 --> 00:13:49.367 still doesn't quite you know register like what they're looking at um so that 00:13:49.367 --> 00:13:53.947 can be really challenging to do but i do think that when we can start approaching 00:13:53.947 --> 00:14:01.627 our own training and practice with that kind of trainer hat on and in mind, 00:14:01.627 --> 00:14:05.387 there's a huge opportunity for growth as a shooter. 00:14:06.567 --> 00:14:11.347 Absolutely. For me, it basically forced me to break down. 00:14:11.587 --> 00:14:17.587 If I thought about, I want to improve a specific skill or a task that I'm trying 00:14:17.587 --> 00:14:22.107 to do, if I broke that down in a way and say, well, how would I explain to do 00:14:22.107 --> 00:14:24.887 this thing to somebody else? 00:14:24.887 --> 00:14:28.467 That puts my like technical 00:14:28.467 --> 00:14:31.207 assessment cap on to be 00:14:31.207 --> 00:14:34.047 like okay step one step two step three step four 00:14:34.047 --> 00:14:37.667 where are the inefficiencies within each of those sub steps and 00:14:37.667 --> 00:14:41.187 then that just that process in of itself brings a 00:14:41.187 --> 00:14:44.567 highlight to the things that how i'm conveying 00:14:44.567 --> 00:14:49.947 that or how i'm performing performing that right so if i can't explain to myself 00:14:49.947 --> 00:14:54.147 how that thing is supposed to happen you know what i mean like it's going to 00:14:54.147 --> 00:14:58.527 be very hard to pick out the individual components to identify and fix them 00:14:58.527 --> 00:15:03.267 so i i think that it's important that but everybody kind of 00:15:03.927 --> 00:15:06.807 Put on that trainer hat and say okay for this 00:15:06.807 --> 00:15:09.567 skill i want to improve let me bust it up 00:15:09.567 --> 00:15:13.087 into its sub elements and convey it 00:15:13.087 --> 00:15:16.267 in a concise succinct way 00:15:16.267 --> 00:15:19.887 to somebody else that would get it right and that 00:15:19.887 --> 00:15:22.927 that skill that is a very difficult 00:15:22.927 --> 00:15:26.067 skill to master right just like marksmanship in 00:15:26.067 --> 00:15:29.847 itself it's it's a difficult skill to master being a 00:15:29.847 --> 00:15:37.647 succinct and precise prescriptive trainer to be able to observe a student's 00:15:37.647 --> 00:15:43.767 skill set and then cherry pick out what i like to call the deepest cuts in performance 00:15:43.767 --> 00:15:47.687 right or skill set and not worry about the shallow cuts. 00:15:48.087 --> 00:15:51.287 Like we got to fix the deep cuts first and then worry about the shallow cuts 00:15:51.287 --> 00:15:54.767 second or third or 10th or 100th, right? But having that 00:15:55.836 --> 00:15:59.056 Ability to pick out those cuts is i 00:15:59.056 --> 00:16:01.816 think where it all starts right so if it 00:16:01.816 --> 00:16:05.576 starts with your own self-assessment and i like when 00:16:05.576 --> 00:16:08.316 i first started this train of your 00:16:08.316 --> 00:16:11.316 people process it started with going to the range with buddies 00:16:11.316 --> 00:16:14.016 right and we would trade time on the range and 00:16:14.016 --> 00:16:17.396 be like okay for this next 30 minute minutes you'll 00:16:17.396 --> 00:16:20.636 be the instructor and i'll be the student and then we'll reverse it and 00:16:20.636 --> 00:16:23.316 we'll pick any given skill that we think that 00:16:23.316 --> 00:16:26.236 we need help with and then we'll just act 00:16:26.236 --> 00:16:29.196 and it's mainly just an exercising of the 00:16:29.196 --> 00:16:36.036 observation skill effort right so that it really started to highlight how do 00:16:36.036 --> 00:16:41.116 i strategize around what am i looking for when do i look for that thing how 00:16:41.116 --> 00:16:44.216 do identify what somebody is doing 00:16:44.216 --> 00:16:49.156 like there's a lot of things that micro movements that we do behind a 00:16:49.356 --> 00:16:55.436 firearm that an instructor can't see directly, but they can see the aftermath 00:16:55.436 --> 00:16:57.876 of a failed attempt, if that makes sense. 00:16:58.056 --> 00:17:02.776 Not, and I'm not talking about hits and targets. I'm talking about really subtle 00:17:02.776 --> 00:17:08.416 body movements, really subtle events that happen that the student does while 00:17:08.416 --> 00:17:09.696 they're trying to perform the task. 00:17:10.156 --> 00:17:18.236 So, yeah. Well, and that's in addition to the one thing that any of us, 00:17:19.116 --> 00:17:24.696 including as an instructor cannot see is what somebody else actually sees, 00:17:25.696 --> 00:17:31.056 as much as i'd like to as much as even when we could put little cameras or whatever right here, 00:17:31.796 --> 00:17:35.876 above or near the eye it's still not exactly what 00:17:35.876 --> 00:17:39.776 that person sees and even then it's not even if we could in theory put a camera 00:17:39.776 --> 00:17:44.676 right where a person's eye is to see their exact point of view it also doesn't 00:17:44.676 --> 00:17:53.636 even show us exactly how they perceive what they're seeing or looking at which is really key the. 00:17:53.636 --> 00:17:56.456 Eyeballs could be open but the lights are not on right 00:17:56.456 --> 00:18:03.256 Right including you know in addition to that you know things like you know what 00:18:03.256 --> 00:18:07.856 where their focal focal plane is at or their accommodation and things like that 00:18:07.856 --> 00:18:11.016 you know That can be a factor in certain things. 00:18:11.216 --> 00:18:16.496 And so, yeah, that's always been one fascinating thing as an instructor that 00:18:16.496 --> 00:18:17.936 just kind of gets me is like, 00:18:18.136 --> 00:18:22.796 it's like, you know, I wish I could see what you're seeing, you know, 00:18:22.856 --> 00:18:27.096 because that would like open up so much potential to be like, 00:18:27.276 --> 00:18:30.716 you know, to really break that down and really find some of those, you know, 00:18:31.596 --> 00:18:35.536 just little really nuanced things a lot of times too that it's like, 00:18:35.656 --> 00:18:38.096 if I could just see what you're seeing, I know there's something there. 00:18:38.096 --> 00:18:42.736 That's just being missed, that we're not quite, you know, capturing or understanding. 00:18:43.216 --> 00:18:45.036 As you know, that's something that, 00:18:45.961 --> 00:18:49.821 Especially when you want to really push the performance envelope as a shooter, 00:18:50.181 --> 00:18:56.481 a lot of that is being able to understand and process all this visual information 00:18:56.481 --> 00:18:58.381 that's happening at a high rate of speed. 00:18:58.601 --> 00:19:02.081 Yeah. And, you know, we could try to communicate it. And I've certainly, 00:19:02.381 --> 00:19:05.601 like you just got done talking about, you know. 00:19:06.561 --> 00:19:12.041 Trying to, you know, think my way through the, you know, step by step by step 00:19:12.041 --> 00:19:14.381 processes of how I do certain things. 00:19:14.381 --> 00:19:18.741 And therefore, how would I communicate that to someone else, things of that nature. 00:19:18.961 --> 00:19:28.561 And it would just be so powerful to be able to articulate things exactly to 00:19:28.561 --> 00:19:31.001 someone, you know, based on what they're actually seeing, 00:19:31.141 --> 00:19:33.161 what they're actually perceiving, what they're actually thinking, 00:19:33.341 --> 00:19:34.981 what they're actually feeling, too. 00:19:34.981 --> 00:19:39.781 That's a whole other rabbit hole we could go down is the emotions that someone's 00:19:39.781 --> 00:19:49.081 experiencing, which can widely vary from person to person in positive and negative ways, too. 00:19:49.961 --> 00:19:57.281 Yeah. So one thing, like little nuance thing that I've learned is trying to 00:19:57.281 --> 00:20:01.421 gain that content that the student has visually. 00:20:01.561 --> 00:20:04.441 What are they seeing? What are they thinking of at that given time? 00:20:04.981 --> 00:20:11.041 And I'll ask, like, I'll have this student shoot a drill and there'll be either 00:20:11.041 --> 00:20:14.401 success or failure at the given drill. 00:20:14.721 --> 00:20:19.161 And in both scenarios, I'll ask them, what did you see? 00:20:19.981 --> 00:20:24.921 And that's to me, that's what's opened the door. That gets us our mind open 00:20:24.921 --> 00:20:28.541 to like, oh, I got to pay attention to what's happening in this, 00:20:28.701 --> 00:20:30.601 the duration of this event. 00:20:30.601 --> 00:20:37.021 And that's where once I get them to open that door, then I can open the second 00:20:37.021 --> 00:20:40.261 door and say, okay, when did you see? 00:20:41.441 --> 00:20:43.181 When did the things happen? 00:20:44.681 --> 00:20:49.621 So to me, step one is like, were you paying attention during the event? 00:20:50.521 --> 00:20:56.321 What did you see? Did your conscious mind consume that content that went into 00:20:56.321 --> 00:20:57.741 your eyeball and into your brain? 00:20:57.741 --> 00:21:04.881 And then when did you perceive these things to happen right because if if we can't put a very 00:21:06.041 --> 00:21:09.301 definitive point on when something happened 00:21:09.301 --> 00:21:12.761 it's very hard for us to give instruction on what 00:21:12.761 --> 00:21:15.681 to do in antithesis to that right whether 00:21:15.681 --> 00:21:19.201 it's absolutely oh let's reinforce this appropriate 00:21:19.201 --> 00:21:22.141 when that resulted in a desired result on 00:21:22.141 --> 00:21:25.721 target or whatever we're trying to do or an inappropriate 00:21:25.721 --> 00:21:32.001 when like oh yeah my eyeballs flicked to this other place during the shot instead 00:21:32.001 --> 00:21:37.721 of watching the shot happen and all the stuff behind it right so I think it's 00:21:37.721 --> 00:21:43.001 important that we always kind of have an open mind and you kind of tickled on that where 00:21:44.206 --> 00:21:48.506 People's inherent behaviors and their mindset um they 00:21:48.506 --> 00:21:51.786 need to be open to learning right like i've i've 00:21:51.786 --> 00:21:54.606 had plenty of times where there's students 00:21:54.606 --> 00:21:58.926 that feel for some reason some performance pressure with 00:21:58.926 --> 00:22:01.746 just being in a class and having to perform in front 00:22:01.746 --> 00:22:04.786 of an instructor and in those scenarios that's where 00:22:04.786 --> 00:22:08.486 i think my skill set of trying to keep it light a 00:22:08.486 --> 00:22:11.326 little bit joking that kind of stuff not making 00:22:11.326 --> 00:22:15.106 it super serious but also trying to 00:22:15.106 --> 00:22:18.406 enforce the the factor of like if 00:22:18.406 --> 00:22:22.546 i have a student that has this mindset of i'm only going to perform properly 00:22:22.546 --> 00:22:27.826 through the whole class that person's not going to learn nearly as much as a 00:22:27.826 --> 00:22:33.706 person willing to try try and fail try and succeed try and fit like the people 00:22:33.706 --> 00:22:37.986 that are willing to try and fail and not feel self-conscious about that, 00:22:38.286 --> 00:22:42.026 these are the people that are willing to learn, right? 00:22:42.146 --> 00:22:45.666 So if you kind of stay in your own little comfort zone, I got my warm little 00:22:45.666 --> 00:22:49.646 jacket on, I'm not going to do anything out of my normal wheelhouse. 00:22:50.566 --> 00:22:56.666 I think you're really squandering that opportunity to find new levels of performance 00:22:56.666 --> 00:22:59.466 or new levels of understanding of what you're trying to do. 00:23:00.506 --> 00:23:03.446 Mm-hmm i couldn't agree more with that 00:23:03.446 --> 00:23:06.286 i i just saw that this last weekend 00:23:06.286 --> 00:23:10.666 teaching some course blocks at the guardian conference and there were a couple 00:23:10.666 --> 00:23:15.486 of students where i remember you know encouraging them reminding them like you're 00:23:15.486 --> 00:23:20.366 here to learn you're not here to show me how good you can shoot and how well 00:23:20.366 --> 00:23:26.186 you do um you know so it's it's great that you're keeping all your shots right in there, 00:23:26.366 --> 00:23:28.506 you know, tight in the zone or whatever, 00:23:29.026 --> 00:23:31.446 that's, that's, you know, like, bravo, good for you. 00:23:31.846 --> 00:23:37.266 But I, if you want to get something out of this, you need to actually push yourself 00:23:37.266 --> 00:23:41.186 to, to a new place where you're, you're learning new things and, 00:23:41.346 --> 00:23:43.846 you know, the wheels start to fall off the bus a little bit. 00:23:44.026 --> 00:23:47.166 And then we can actually look at, well, why did the wheels fall off? 00:23:47.626 --> 00:23:51.346 You know, what, you know, where was the breaking point? Now we pushed you to 00:23:51.346 --> 00:23:56.306 a new place, a new performance threshold that you, you know, 00:23:56.886 --> 00:23:59.606 weren't able to previously go or you didn't allow yourself to go. 00:23:59.766 --> 00:24:04.786 And now, now we're seeing things are a little bit uncomfortable. I understand that. 00:24:06.064 --> 00:24:10.424 Okay, where's the failure points now? And so then we can start analyzing and 00:24:10.424 --> 00:24:12.944 breaking that down. That's really key. 00:24:13.564 --> 00:24:17.404 So that's really good advice, I think, what you just brought in to the conversation, 00:24:17.404 --> 00:24:23.444 whether you are attending a class or some kind of training event and looking 00:24:23.444 --> 00:24:29.704 for instruction from an instructor or trainer, or whether you're just practicing things you've learned, 00:24:29.864 --> 00:24:35.944 uh, on your own, if you're not pushing yourself and you're just staying in that 00:24:35.944 --> 00:24:38.444 comfortable, you know, place, uh, 00:24:38.804 --> 00:24:41.684 you're, you got your little, you know, woobie or whatever, and you're not, 00:24:41.784 --> 00:24:43.244 you're refusing to let go of it. 00:24:43.544 --> 00:24:47.964 Um, it's, it's hard to get better. You're just going to kind of plateau out 00:24:47.964 --> 00:24:51.364 and stay, stay where you always have been. 00:24:51.964 --> 00:24:55.224 I jokingly tell my students that, um, there, 00:24:55.344 --> 00:24:58.404 nobody has learned how to pop wheelies on their bicycle as 00:24:58.404 --> 00:25:01.484 a kid without wrecking yeah right there's plenty 00:25:01.484 --> 00:25:04.284 of scraped knees and beat up bikes right like you're 00:25:04.284 --> 00:25:07.704 not going to learn how to do it without a bunch of failures to get 00:25:07.704 --> 00:25:10.464 to the point of oh now i can do the wheelie and this is how we do 00:25:10.464 --> 00:25:13.364 it and this is how i not wreck right there's lots of wrecking that 00:25:13.364 --> 00:25:16.844 needs to happen and we got to be graceful in 00:25:16.844 --> 00:25:20.304 the wrecks right meaning okay like there's 00:25:20.304 --> 00:25:23.504 plenty of times in my classes when maybe i'm 00:25:23.504 --> 00:25:26.544 pushing a student's level of aggression on 00:25:26.544 --> 00:25:30.224 a transition between targets and i 00:25:30.224 --> 00:25:33.264 could care less if they actually hit the targets when 00:25:33.264 --> 00:25:36.144 we start doing it because if i don't get 00:25:36.144 --> 00:25:41.364 them used to moving their appendages at the appropriate aggressive pace then 00:25:41.364 --> 00:25:46.744 the hits don't matter if that makes sense right so that there'll be a time when 00:25:46.744 --> 00:25:54.104 the hits do matter but like it's kind of like the like certain athletes like gymnasts or whatnot, 00:25:54.244 --> 00:25:56.624 they jump into big foam pits, right? 00:25:56.944 --> 00:26:00.284 When they're figuring out how many flips can I do in this one jump, 00:26:00.424 --> 00:26:01.324 right? Or that kind of stuff. 00:26:01.504 --> 00:26:07.664 Like there needs to be that safety net of failure that is a open environment 00:26:07.664 --> 00:26:09.624 to be able to try and fail. 00:26:10.124 --> 00:26:15.924 Yeah. I like to call that like the discovery and push portion of training, right? 00:26:16.124 --> 00:26:20.204 Because if we're not willing to discover what the limits are and what the limits 00:26:20.204 --> 00:26:22.804 are not, right, then what are we doing? 00:26:24.402 --> 00:26:29.742 Yeah, it kind of, you just reminded me of, and I've always been fascinated by 00:26:29.742 --> 00:26:33.222 this, but, you know, like Travis Pastrana and his whole, like, 00:26:33.722 --> 00:26:38.622 Nitro Circus, you know, group, all the guys associated with that. 00:26:38.622 --> 00:26:42.202 Like i mean guys are doing tricks on 00:26:42.202 --> 00:26:45.662 bikes on with atvs 00:26:45.662 --> 00:26:50.882 with cars with all kinds of things these days that we never would have imagined 00:26:50.882 --> 00:26:56.342 a decade ago two decades ago three decades ago because somebody had to be like 00:26:56.342 --> 00:27:01.242 hey let's let's try something crazy and like i'm going to wreck and probably 00:27:01.242 --> 00:27:04.142 break bones You know, of course they got smarter with time, 00:27:04.242 --> 00:27:07.562 like develop these huge, um, uh, 00:27:07.962 --> 00:27:12.922 foam pits and, and, and, and inflated bags and everything to make that a lot 00:27:12.922 --> 00:27:18.402 safer to do and padded, you know, landing, uh, uh, ramps and zones and things. 00:27:19.722 --> 00:27:23.682 But even with all that, you watch these guys practice these, 00:27:23.682 --> 00:27:28.962 these tricks and like they wreck all the time. They wreck so many times. 00:27:29.582 --> 00:27:34.422 Oh yeah. And it's like, that's got to hurt so bad doing it again and again. 00:27:34.582 --> 00:27:38.362 And like, it's literally hurting their bodies to learn how to do these things. 00:27:38.842 --> 00:27:42.662 Meanwhile, we can, I mean, within safe limits with a firearm, 00:27:42.822 --> 00:27:47.542 we don't want to end up shooting ourselves or anybody else, but we can push 00:27:47.542 --> 00:27:52.002 the limits tremendously with a gun in our hands and fail, 00:27:52.222 --> 00:27:54.182 you know, spectacularly. 00:27:54.442 --> 00:27:58.922 And, and we're not like actually hurting ourselves. It may hurt our egos, 00:27:58.922 --> 00:28:05.002 but that's like the beautiful thing is we can push the limits quite a bit and 00:28:05.002 --> 00:28:08.482 it's not actually hurting us as long as we're being safe. 00:28:08.642 --> 00:28:14.782 And that's a huge opportunity to learn stuff. A common, I think you kind of 00:28:14.782 --> 00:28:21.902 already touched on this, but I see a common piece of advice thrown out there on the interwebs, 00:28:22.082 --> 00:28:26.602 on social media especially, where someone maybe posts up a video, 00:28:26.782 --> 00:28:29.102 like a match video, a stage they're shooting or something. 00:28:30.280 --> 00:28:33.280 And, you know, they're asking for some advice or something. 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.040 And sometimes that advice might, they might be saying something along the lines 00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:43.080 of, you know, like, I'm struggling to kind of find the right balance of, 00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:46.380 you know, I go to a match and I'm really accurate, but slow, 00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:49.160 or I'm really fast and like woefully inaccurate. 00:28:50.120 --> 00:28:53.340 And it's sort of like, you know, how do I, how do I put this together? 00:28:54.360 --> 00:29:03.300 And one of the things that I see bandied about as advice is to feel free to go to a match, 00:29:03.520 --> 00:29:08.720