Riley Bowman: This is the Concealed Carry Podcast, Season 11, Episode 8.
Music:
Riley Bowman: And welcome to the Concealed Carry
Riley Bowman: Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK.
Riley Bowman: Today is Wednesday, what is it, March 12th, 2025.
Jacob Paulsen: Yes, sir.
Riley Bowman: As of recording of this episode, I am your host, Riley Bowman,
Riley Bowman: joined by co-host, Jacob Paulson.
Jacob Paulsen: Yes, and Riley is the guy who failed today to achieve his goal of an eight-minute mile.
Jacob Paulsen: Riley runs a lot, but you specifically just, I don't know, maybe even out of
Jacob Paulsen: the blue said, today I'm going to see if I can do a mile in under eight minutes, and you just fell short.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, yeah. There you go. Just fell short.
Jacob Paulsen: Next time.
Riley Bowman: I am not the fastest runner, never have been, but I've been getting a little bit better at it.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm sure I could not run an eight-minute mile today, right now.
Riley Bowman: I would say long-term, I'd love to get to being in the sixes.
Riley Bowman: I don't know. But, I mean, one can hope, right?
Jacob Paulsen: I definitely think it's possible. In my prime, I ran a 432. Do I get any credit for that?
Riley Bowman: Dude, that's insane.
Jacob Paulsen: This is what I did. I was on the track team. I was a runner.
Jacob Paulsen: 432. 432. I dropped out. I cheated, too. That was a huge elevation drop.
Jacob Paulsen: I lived at about 6,400 feet and I ran that 432 at about 4,400 feet.
Riley Bowman: So yeah, oxygen was good. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I feel pretty good
Riley Bowman: about doing what I can do at my age at...
Riley Bowman: Basically mile high you know we
Jacob Paulsen: Are just getting older.
Riley Bowman: Well as i guess you just gave me your uh your guy who jacob's the guy who used
Riley Bowman: to run cross country cross
Jacob Paulsen: Country and track it's true i did the run thing.
Riley Bowman: I pretty regularly run a 5k i mean about once a week i usually do a 5k and i
Riley Bowman: mean i know there's some of you out there like ah you know i run you know that's
Riley Bowman: that's rookie numbers or whatever but but i feel pretty good you know putting
Riley Bowman: in a 5k dang near every week and i could do it in about 28 29 minutes it
Jacob Paulsen: Is my goal to do a 5k two or three times a week but it has been many months
Jacob Paulsen: since i output that i'm kind of rebuilding back.
Riley Bowman: Now yeah yeah right on um welcome to today's episode today we're going to be
Riley Bowman: talking about gear trends, specifically things like red dots, lights,
Riley Bowman: malfunctions, and things that we've noticed in recent classes.
Riley Bowman: Specifically, we're going to share some data from a recent pistol intelligence
Riley Bowman: class that I taught that Jacob assisted and came to as well.
Riley Bowman: Jacob's the one who really actually tracked that stuff. I don't normally have
Riley Bowman: even the brain resources at all to even be thinking as I'm trying to focus on
Riley Bowman: teaching and delivering my curriculum to, hey, what are these students using?
Riley Bowman: I kind of anecdotally have a sense. I see things.
Riley Bowman: I pay attention generally, but not like writing it down and tracking it.
Riley Bowman: So we're going to share some of that from a recent class.
Riley Bowman: And also, I think that'll bring up other things we've noticed over the recent
Riley Bowman: history, the last year or two or whatever, in terms of gear trends,
Riley Bowman: conferences, and other events we've been to that, you know, of course the Guardian
Riley Bowman: Conference, we see a lot of different gear show up at the Guardian Conference each year.
Riley Bowman: So what are some of the lessons and takeaways from, you know,
Riley Bowman: the current, I guess, gear
Riley Bowman: I mean, there's some trends. Maybe there's some, what's the word?
Riley Bowman: There's trend, but there's also like, I'm not gimmick, but you know what I mean? Like fads.
Jacob Paulsen: Fads. Ooh, I like fads.
Riley Bowman: You know, I don't know.
Jacob Paulsen: Trends, fads, and gimmicks. Oh, my.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, right. So we'll talk about some of that and kind of our thoughts and takeaways
Riley Bowman: and kind of where we think the industry is at, where people are at.
Riley Bowman: Today's episode sponsored brought to you
Riley Bowman: by a pistol intelligence
Riley Bowman: course online pistol intelligence course uh that
Riley Bowman: we filmed a couple years ago i should say really we
Riley Bowman: didn't film directly but uh thank you
Riley Bowman: to john correa and his crew at active
Riley Bowman: self-protection filmed a course that
Riley Bowman: i taught in arizona where most of
Riley Bowman: the active self-protection crew was involved so that
Riley Bowman: got filmed and then we did some some further editing to
Riley Bowman: it and things and realized actually at one point there was
Riley Bowman: a section a kind of an important drill that was missed
Riley Bowman: just nature of running out of you know storage on memory cards or whatever when
Riley Bowman: it was originally filmed and so we went to the range and made sure that was
Riley Bowman: filmed so that that that critical drill is included in our version of the pistol
Riley Bowman: intelligence course available at concealedcarry.com forward slash piq course Jacob,
Riley Bowman: you've been through the course, you've observed me teaching it a time or two.
Riley Bowman: Kind of like, what would you tell somebody like, why should they at the very
Riley Bowman: least view and go through the online pistol intelligence course?
Jacob Paulsen: Well, this is not a tactics course. This is a pistol performance course.
Jacob Paulsen: This is about increasing your ability to manipulate the tool efficiently and effectively.
Jacob Paulsen: And I think my experience, I guess there's two things that I immediately think
Jacob Paulsen: about when I think about the PIQ curriculum.
Jacob Paulsen: The first is kind of a new approach to things that are probably part of most curriculums.
Jacob Paulsen: Things like grip and curriculums. Is that plural, right?
Jacob Paulsen: Curricula curricula there you go so so yes
Jacob Paulsen: pretend i said curricula like a really intelligent person yeah
Jacob Paulsen: there you go um so things like grip and
Jacob Paulsen: stance and you know recoil management things that you know looking
Jacob Paulsen: at things that are part of any pistol performance or even you know traditional
Jacob Paulsen: defensive pistol curriculum and saying you know what's the more efficient way
Jacob Paulsen: to think about this and approach this and learn it and teach it but then the
Jacob Paulsen: second like major thing i think about when I think about PAQ is that it's about
Jacob Paulsen: vision. It's about seeing things.
Jacob Paulsen: And kind of unlocking the power to be able to send the shot and know where it's
Jacob Paulsen: going to go before it leaves the gun.
Jacob Paulsen: And that's like this foundational thing that has all these ripple effects,
Jacob Paulsen: all of these kind of byproduct things.
Jacob Paulsen: Like I think that being able to see that also allows you to be able to shoot
Jacob Paulsen: faster. It allows you to handle recoil more efficiently.
Jacob Paulsen: I think it even impacts the way you grip the gun. Because if you're tracking
Jacob Paulsen: the sights throughout the entire process,
Jacob Paulsen: it changes for you what's important relative to the consistency of which the
Jacob Paulsen: gun moves. So anyway, lots of things like that.
Riley Bowman: It's interesting to hear your perspective. And I appreciate you sharing that.
Riley Bowman: I hope that that's also of interest to some of you watching or listening.
Riley Bowman: My big thing is I want people to be able to see better so they can shoot better.
Riley Bowman: I think that that's just really critical that if we can see what's happening
Riley Bowman: between us, target, and gun, then we can shoot better.
Riley Bowman: So, there you go. Check it out, concealedcarry.com forward slash PIQ course
Riley Bowman: to check out and sign up for, I guess, purchase the pistol intelligence course.
Riley Bowman: You can also view it completely as included membership if you're a Guardian Nation member.
Riley Bowman: So, you can also join Guardian Nation if you'd prefer that instead and get full
Riley Bowman: access to our whole video training library at Guardian University.
Riley Bowman: Uh today's class or class episode is also sponsored by ksg armory specifically
Riley Bowman: we're highlighting today the revere holster which is a light bearing holster
Riley Bowman: it's it's well i mean think about it paul revere right what was the famous by
Jacob Paulsen: One land two.
Riley Bowman: By sea right uh famous Paul Revere's ride, midnight ride, right?
Riley Bowman: And so, you know, when we were thinking about names for products of holsters at KSG Armory,
Riley Bowman: it was like, hey, you know, if it's a light bearing holster,
Riley Bowman: we're going to call it the Revere because all the holster names have a tie in
Riley Bowman: somewhere to essentially like, you know,
Riley Bowman: the American Revolution, you know, kind of timeframe.
Riley Bowman: And so, so there you go. That's the Revere holster. if you'd like to,
Riley Bowman: or if you're in need of a light bearing holster that we can't unfortunately
Riley Bowman: currently support all models of guns with all models of lights,
Riley Bowman: but we have many of the most popular ones available, uh, that are light bearing.
Riley Bowman: So, I mean, a really popular one is like the Glock 43X48 with a TLR7 sub or
Riley Bowman: a P365 or P365X macro with a TLR7 sub light.
Riley Bowman: Those are super popular, it seems with the light bearing option.
Riley Bowman: And so those are certainly available as a Revere holster from KSG Armory.
Riley Bowman: Check out ksgarmory.com forward slash Revere, R-E-V-E-R-E, if you...
Riley Bowman: He'd help with spelling Revere. There you go.
Jacob Paulsen: That's how you spell it.
Riley Bowman: So let's jump into today's topic.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. Yeah. So I think my first disclaimer, I think, that needs to be made is
Jacob Paulsen: that I documented, and I got this idea from John Correa. We already mentioned him once this episode.
Jacob Paulsen: But he does this a lot. When he comes back from a class on Facebook,
Jacob Paulsen: he posts all the guns that he saw on the line in his class.
Jacob Paulsen: Right. And so I just thought, I'm going to take this a step further.
Jacob Paulsen: The other organization that does this really well is A Girl and a Gun.
Jacob Paulsen: So every year, A Girl and a Gun puts out a report after their national conference
Jacob Paulsen: of all the gear that's used by all the ladies at that event. Right.
Jacob Paulsen: And theirs is much more detailed. I mean, like what brand of pants they're wearing,
Jacob Paulsen: you know. I mean, that kind of level of detail.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, you're pro, I pro.
Jacob Paulsen: Oh, the whole thing. So I thought I would try and document some of that at this
Jacob Paulsen: particular class you had in Spokane.
Jacob Paulsen: There were basically 19 shooters on the line. You had 18 students plus the host
Jacob Paulsen: who was jumping in and out off the line at different points.
Jacob Paulsen: So I – and this is not a negative reflection on anybody. Like no one's in trouble
Jacob Paulsen: here. Like it's all good.
Jacob Paulsen: But I think that the first disclaimer I wanted to make is that people don't
Jacob Paulsen: always bring the same gear to class that they would carry with.
Jacob Paulsen: So some people do. Some people certainly do say, hey, this is my EDC loadout.
Jacob Paulsen: This is the gun I carry each day and this is the holster and so this is what
Jacob Paulsen: I'm going to take to class and use. but there's plenty of things at the class
Jacob Paulsen: that clearly that was not what they are running on average day.
Riley Bowman: Yeah i mean to that point
Riley Bowman: it is not uncommon i've seen this many times where a student shows up to class
Riley Bowman: and they are showing up with something they've never really trained with before
Riley Bowman: and i understand why some would
Riley Bowman: do that it's like hey there's this opportunity I'm going to expend six,
Riley Bowman: seven, 800 rounds over two days.
Riley Bowman: It's a, it's a class. So it's intended to be a learning opportunity.
Riley Bowman: Well, I mean, you can certainly learn about that new gear choice that you are
Riley Bowman: showing up to the class with.
Riley Bowman: And some do that successfully, but quite often it's unsuccessful for students.
Riley Bowman: And what I mean by that is it ends up being a struggle, you know,
Riley Bowman: kind of the struggle bus of,
Riley Bowman: well, you know, gun's not quite running right, or the ammo is not running right,
Riley Bowman: or I'm having an issue with the optic, or I've never used an optic before at
Riley Bowman: all, and now I'm doing it for the first time ever.
Riley Bowman: And so, and I'm not here to judge anybody for that, because certainly,
Riley Bowman: like, you're welcome to use whatever you want to use. It's America.
Riley Bowman: I even get questions from students, sometimes even just the,
Riley Bowman: you know, days leading up to the class of, you know, well, should I bring more
Riley Bowman: of my competition setup or, or a concealment setup or, you know,
Riley Bowman: a duty gear kind of setup or, you know, whatever.
Riley Bowman: And I'm always like, I, this class is not specific to a certain type.
Riley Bowman: Of gear or shooting style necessarily. It's just, I want to teach you how to
Riley Bowman: shoot better because that benefits.
Riley Bowman: And part of the reason, I mean, I'll be honest, one, I enjoy teaching people
Riley Bowman: how to shoot better and to teach them how to do that from a somewhat of a unique
Riley Bowman: perspective in the way that that curriculum is delivered, but also because it's
Riley Bowman: applicable to no matter who you are.
Riley Bowman: If I taught just purely a tactics oriented course, then the competition folks
Riley Bowman: don't want to show up if i taught a purely competition-oriented class then the
Riley Bowman: tactical folks don't want to show up you know and so you know it's kind of why the class is the way
Jacob Paulsen: It is i think i think too we have to like if you're listening to this and you
Jacob Paulsen: maybe have a class coming up,
Jacob Paulsen: there's a con i think there's a common out there's a couple commonalities that
Jacob Paulsen: i see you know at the guardian conference that classes that i teach that you
Jacob Paulsen: teach one of those is sort of like the class justifies the purchase i just signed
Jacob Paulsen: up for this class this justifies me going and buying some new gear. Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: So, hey, as long as I'm going to take a new class, I'm going to get a new gun.
Jacob Paulsen: And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, by the way.
Jacob Paulsen: I just think that's commonality. Another thing I'll see is the opposite.
Jacob Paulsen: Like I bought a new gear, so I'm going to go sign up for a class so I can kind
Jacob Paulsen: of put that gear through it. Yeah. And we see this a lot with optics these days.
Jacob Paulsen: I've been wanting to switch to an optic, to a red dot, but I wanted to take a class with it.
Jacob Paulsen: So I signed up for a class, and then I went and got the dot,
Jacob Paulsen: put it on the pistol, and I'm going to go take that class and work out the kinks with my dot.
Jacob Paulsen: So my point is there's some really legitimate reasons why people might show
Jacob Paulsen: up with gear that is completely untested and unproven to them,
Jacob Paulsen: for them, you know, that they've never used before.
Jacob Paulsen: We did have, though, there was a student on your line who was running her EDC
Jacob Paulsen: gun and her EDC holster, a KSG holster, as it were.
Jacob Paulsen: I think it was a P365, if I'm not mistaken. It was P365XL.
Jacob Paulsen: So...
Jacob Paulsen: And she made it very clear. This is what I carry. This is how I carry it.
Jacob Paulsen: This is what I'm running. And she did that for two days straight through.
Riley Bowman: And did very well with it.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, and she did very well. I'm at a point in my life where I kind of know why I'm doing this.
Jacob Paulsen: And that's a lot about this too is sort of this purpose-driven thing.
Jacob Paulsen: And so I do this because I want to be able to shoot bad guys if they try and hurt me and my family.
Jacob Paulsen: So like last year, I took a three-day 40. I was at S12. I guess I was not a student in that one.
Jacob Paulsen: But, you know, when I go to trainings like S12 or your PIQ class or whatever
Jacob Paulsen: thing I might be a student in these days, I show up like this.
Jacob Paulsen: The only thing I really change is I'll throw a spare mag or two on.
Jacob Paulsen: And I might, you know, one in a mag pouch and one in a pocket.
Jacob Paulsen: And that's really it. And that's like, here I am, like, take me as I am.
Jacob Paulsen: But that's because that's my objective. That's my purpose.
Jacob Paulsen: We had a lot of guys at the Spokane class, kind of this group of dudes that
Jacob Paulsen: look like they're all buddies who showed up in their battle rattle.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, they were not wearing plate carriers, but, you know,
Jacob Paulsen: drop leg duty holsters, you know, that looked pretty serious.
Jacob Paulsen: And so that's not their carry gear, but their objective for that class might
Jacob Paulsen: have been, hey, I want to optimize my ability to – in fact, these guys were
Jacob Paulsen: quite keen on your PIQ standards. They know they're going to be tested.
Jacob Paulsen: They know that there's going to be some results, some data, so they maybe choose
Jacob Paulsen: gear that optimizes their ability to score well.
Riley Bowman: Sure, which is fine. I simply don't care.
Jacob Paulsen: The point is, as we go through this, it may not be atypical of concealed carry setups. Yeah.
Riley Bowman: So, I mean, I'll just, on this topic where we sort of started this conversation
Riley Bowman: today, I would just, I'll say two things.
Riley Bowman: One, I think that there is something to be said for, this is advice, okay?
Riley Bowman: And some of you watching like maybe i mean some of
Riley Bowman: you or listening when's the last time you took a one
Riley Bowman: day or two day like a pretty involved training course uh maybe never maybe you're
Riley Bowman: newer to all this or you just have never gotten around to it i would encourage
Riley Bowman: you to do that i would encourage you to find a reputable instructor or training
Riley Bowman: program or class and go and do it um and and if that is something you've done
Riley Bowman: before do it again because there's great value to be had i I mean,
Riley Bowman: some of my most significant growth as a shooter came because I went and took
Riley Bowman: some classes with different instructors to see and learn different things and perspectives.
Riley Bowman: And it was super helpful to me and informative to me to come away with different
Riley Bowman: takeaways that I could then implement
Riley Bowman: in my own practice and then see huge gains in my personal growth.
Riley Bowman: So my advice is, the first thing is, I think it is a pretty good idea to show up to a class and.
Riley Bowman: I should say this, if your goal is to learn the most that you can learn from
Riley Bowman: a class or instructor, show up with the gear that you most often train or shoot with.
Jacob Paulsen: That's the most comfortable with. Yep.
Riley Bowman: So that's the key. If you want to get the most out of that class,
Riley Bowman: then do what you do the most of.
Riley Bowman: So not a new gun, not a new holster setup, or a different way, or whatever.
Riley Bowman: If you are looking to test something else and also learn in,
Riley Bowman: you know, along the process.
Riley Bowman: So you want to, uh, like maybe you spend most of your time at the range training
Riley Bowman: with a, you know, battle belt as they call them.
Riley Bowman: Uh, but yet you are carrying concealed most of the time in terms of a practical sense.
Riley Bowman: Okay. Okay. Maybe the class is a good opportunity for you to actually show up
Riley Bowman: and see how you can do, you know, from a concealment draw. using concealment
Riley Bowman: gear with maybe a different gun, a smaller gun, whatever.
Riley Bowman: Or maybe you want to test different equipment and see how it does,
Riley Bowman: sort of like a torture test of sorts over the two days or whatever of a course.
Riley Bowman: That's fine. But the point, but the fact is, is that you are testing or,
Riley Bowman: or discovering or learning something different or in addition to what you're
Riley Bowman: also there to learn in the class.
Riley Bowman: So if you want to maximize learning in the class, then show up with whatever
Riley Bowman: you are most comfortable with. That's the advice.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, well, just this, that it's okay to bring multiple loadouts and change
Jacob Paulsen: them in the class, whether it's a one-day class or a two-day class.
Jacob Paulsen: You can say, hey, you know, it's the morning of day one. I'm going to run with
Jacob Paulsen: this gear, see how I feel about it, and then if it's driving me crazy or I feel
Jacob Paulsen: like it's limiting my ability to learn, then I'm going to dump that gear and
Jacob Paulsen: go back to this other thing I'm more comfortable with. Whatever the thing is, it's okay to switch.
Jacob Paulsen: And we saw that. We saw, I'm thinking, at least one of your students in the
Jacob Paulsen: Spokane class swapped out guns at least twice.
Riley Bowman: I've had plenty of students over the years that have, you know,
Riley Bowman: done concealment on day one and more of a duty setup or battle belt setup on day two.
Riley Bowman: I actually make a point as an instructor, I'll typically teach day one from
Riley Bowman: concealment and then day two from an open carry setup of some kind.
Riley Bowman: Uh it might be my competition uh rig
Riley Bowman: or it might be like this this class the spokane class i
Riley Bowman: actually used both a sort of a battle belt with
Riley Bowman: a duty holster as well as a competition holster with
Riley Bowman: you know that setup but i did i think most of day one from
Riley Bowman: concealment and then i also make a point to to demonstrate
Riley Bowman: and use different guns as well as iron
Riley Bowman: sight and red dot equipped guns just
Riley Bowman: as the instructor i want to be able to demonstrate things in different
Riley Bowman: ways using different setups different gear part of
Riley Bowman: that is to be able to speak a little bit more to and
Riley Bowman: sort of help others that are in the class that maybe have different setups
Riley Bowman: and other people to kind of like help them see like hey it's cool you know you
Riley Bowman: know you're set up you're still running irons you know as john correa calls
Riley Bowman: it you know amish you know gun amish folks still using iron sights on guns kind
Riley Bowman: of thing that's okay i usually do some demos with iron sights
Riley Bowman: I just try to mix it up so that you can kind of see that no matter the gear
Riley Bowman: that you are using, shooting is still shooting.
Riley Bowman: And that's really kind of a key component of my class. All right.
Riley Bowman: Let's get into some statistics.
Jacob Paulsen: Okay. So we'll start with the guns.
Riley Bowman: Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: Okay. So I'm going to go through 19 guns here, and I'll just say them out loud.
Jacob Paulsen: So Shadow Systems, a Shadow Systems, a P365XL, a Glock, a P365,
Jacob Paulsen: another Glock, an M&P, a Glock, a Glock, another Shadow Systems,
Jacob Paulsen: Staccato, an M&P, a P320, a Prodigy, an HK, a Glock, a Glock, a Glock, and an HK.
Riley Bowman: I like how you didn't specifically list it was a Glock 19 or 17.
Jacob Paulsen: A Glock be a Glock be a Glock, man. Yeah, some of these have some aftermarket stuff on them too.
Jacob Paulsen: So we're not, you know, Glock with whatever, slide with, you know,
Jacob Paulsen: whatever, you know. And we'll get into some dots and lights too.
Jacob Paulsen: Basically, these Glocks are Glocks are Glocks for me. Okay. 19,
Jacob Paulsen: 17, 19X, you know, I think those are what we're really seeing.
Jacob Paulsen: So a lot of, I mean, definitely Glock is winning here.
Jacob Paulsen: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven out of 19 guns are a Glock in this particular class.
Jacob Paulsen: Shadow Systems was impressive of its turnout. Three of them.
Riley Bowman: This was probably the most I think I've seen concentration-wise in a class.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, three Shadow Systems was very remarkable to me. Two 365s.
Riley Bowman: That's actually about half. If you think about it, because the Shadow Systems
Riley Bowman: is basically a Glock wannabe.
Jacob Paulsen: So now we have 10 out of 19.
Riley Bowman: Sorry, Shadow Systems. I'm not trying to offend anybody by saying a Glock wannabe.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm all for Glock wannabes.
Riley Bowman: So about half of the guns are essentially Glocks. And then the rest is kind of a mix of...
Jacob Paulsen: Two HKs, two 365s, a P320, a Staccato, a Prodigy, two M&Ps. Yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: And one of those M&Ps was a duty gun.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, that person's got a badge and that's their duty gun.
Riley Bowman: And that was iron-sided, if I recall.
Jacob Paulsen: Yes, that one is iron-sided. Both M&Ps were running irons. And they were both badged people.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, yeah. So they were running, you know, essentially they're,
Riley Bowman: I don't know if it's issued or at least it's department approved gear.
Riley Bowman: So, you know, whether, you know, an optic is even an option for that particular
Riley Bowman: agency or department, I don't even know. I didn't even ask, but that's what they were running.
Riley Bowman: But by and large, so we talked about the gun types or gun brands slash models.
Riley Bowman: How many, though, were running optics versus irons?
Jacob Paulsen: A lot of optics, man. Okay. So let's see. Optics.
Jacob Paulsen: So you count how many optics. I'm going to name the optics. All right.
Jacob Paulsen: So i'll also say irons but just skip the iron so irons trijicon romeo hollow
Jacob Paulsen: sun hollow sun trijicon irons hollow sun hollow sun hollow sun hollow sun irons
Jacob Paulsen: trijicon hollow sun hollow sun,
Jacob Paulsen: an unnamed red dot i'm not sure what that one was a hollow sun and a hollow
Jacob Paulsen: sun and a hollow sun so there are three irons in there yeah.
Riley Bowman: Oh i count i think 15 um optics but i might have been off by
Jacob Paulsen: One yeah so so three or four irons you know then a whole bunch of dots so a
Jacob Paulsen: ton of stinking dots and clearly all.
Riley Bowman: Of a sudden is
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah a couple of trichcon rmrs and one that i did not identify like probably
Jacob Paulsen: i looked at it like i couldn't tell so it was kind of an unusual thing for me
Jacob Paulsen: and then i i just didn't get around to asking that person what it was yeah i'm.
Riley Bowman: Trying to think if i could to remember what that was. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Jacob Paulsen: It's probably a Holosun. But anyway, so a lot of stinking Holosuns.
Jacob Paulsen: Holosuns are extraordinarily dominant on these guns by far.
Riley Bowman: Why do you think that is?
Jacob Paulsen: I think that...
Jacob Paulsen: Certainly, we care about good gear, but Holosun has kind of created its niche
Jacob Paulsen: in this kind of space between acceptable in terms of cost, but also acceptable in terms of quality.
Jacob Paulsen: So I think people feel like, hey, if you want the top tier, if you want to go
Jacob Paulsen: spend the money and get stuff that's a little bit more proven, you could.
Jacob Paulsen: But if you're looking for a budget-friendly thing that has an acceptable level
Jacob Paulsen: of quality, Holosun has that brand, has that reputation.
Jacob Paulsen: I'm running Holosun on my gun right now. Same. I have a Swamp Fox on my other
Jacob Paulsen: VP9, but I would call it comparable in perceived value to me.
Jacob Paulsen: So yeah, I think that there's certainly going to be some people out there like, I want the best.
Jacob Paulsen: I want the thing that the dudes are running in the military or that is battle-tested in combat.
Jacob Paulsen: And so yeah, you're going to see some Trijicon, you're going to see some aim
Jacob Paulsen: points, you're going to see some things like that for those people.
Jacob Paulsen: But by and large, I think that in the consumer group that we're running around
Jacob Paulsen: with, which is a bunch of just normal joes uh hollow sun has an acceptable level
Jacob Paulsen: of quality but is more affordable than a lot of that other stuff.
Riley Bowman: Yeah i agree with that uh very uh
Riley Bowman: yeah it's a solid i mean the there's enough data now to suggest that it's pretty
Riley Bowman: reliable of an optic uh i've been running all sense for a number of years now
Riley Bowman: as well they actually have not had any issues with any of my Holosun optics yet.
Riley Bowman: I mean, I'm not saying they couldn't happen, but I haven't had any that have
Riley Bowman: gone down or quit working or anything like that. I swapped out some batteries, but that's about it.
Riley Bowman: So that's pretty impressive, you know, to have a pretty good track record and
Riley Bowman: still be pretty affordably priced, you know?
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, and it's interesting too, because in our industry, we tend to be a little
Jacob Paulsen: bit more patriotic of a people.
Jacob Paulsen: And Holosuns are made in China.
Jacob Paulsen: And despite that, they tend to be more successful than other brands that come
Jacob Paulsen: out of China. And I think it's mostly because they've done a good job on the quality side.
Riley Bowman: They also have a pretty significant U.S.-based operation. Oh,
Riley Bowman: sure, sure, sure, sure. With U.S. employees.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, when we go to their booth, it's a bunch of Americans that we're talking to.
Jacob Paulsen: Whereas there are plenty of other Chinese manufactured products where you show
Jacob Paulsen: up at the booth and you're looking for somebody who speaks English.
Riley Bowman: Yep.
Jacob Paulsen: So, yes, that's a valid point. They have a big U.S. operation.
Jacob Paulsen: They understand the u.s consumer yeah well.
Riley Bowman: Yeah that's true and actually a lot of their employees take
Riley Bowman: what they do very seriously they're also shooters uh
Riley Bowman: they also take classes uh some of their uh
Riley Bowman: folks over there i know like have spent you know considerable amount of time
Riley Bowman: on the range in classes with instruct with reputable instructors putting holosun
Riley Bowman: gear to the test they have some folks that are competitive shooters as well
Riley Bowman: uh that you know shoot quite a bit and so So,
Riley Bowman: you know, that I think has helped with the growth of that brand and the perception that,
Riley Bowman: yes, it's a Chinese made product.
Riley Bowman: I mean, there's lots of things in our world that are Chinese made. Sure.
Riley Bowman: Of course, we're in a time now, too, where like that's an interesting thing
Riley Bowman: because, you know, tariffs are going up and we'll see, you know, what happens with that.
Riley Bowman: And, of course, China is not necessarily our friend, you know,
Riley Bowman: as far as governments go.
Riley Bowman: So, yeah, that's not meant to be – let's spend that whole episode talking about
Riley Bowman: China and geopolitical issues.
Jacob Paulsen: I might have done that. It might be my fault.
Riley Bowman: But it's the truth.
Jacob Paulsen: It is a Chinese-made product.
Riley Bowman: It's a good product with – it just is.
Jacob Paulsen: Yep, we're doing a good job.
Riley Bowman: I'm going to say it is what it is. Yep. So I look at stuff like that and I go,
Riley Bowman: you know, American manufacturers need to catch up.
Riley Bowman: In many ways, now the products that American companies are making are really good products.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure.
Riley Bowman: But can we do it more efficiently? Can we do it more affordably?
Riley Bowman: Because, I mean, I'll tell you that not a lot of people are going to have,
Riley Bowman: you know, $600 or plus to drop on an optic.
Jacob Paulsen: There's more to this than that, though, Riley. like I,
Jacob Paulsen: Here's another perspective. I don't think it's just about at what cost can we
Jacob Paulsen: manufacture and produce the product.
Jacob Paulsen: I think it's also a question of you look at some of these companies that are
Jacob Paulsen: American-made products, and they have DOD contracts.
Jacob Paulsen: Because DOD often, almost everything that DOD buys requires that it not be made
Jacob Paulsen: in China, that it be made in the U.S.
Jacob Paulsen: Certainly, if there's an option to buy something that is made in the U.S.
Jacob Paulsen: So if one of your primary sources of revenue as a company is to sell to the
Jacob Paulsen: Department of Defense, Department of Justice, law enforcement, et cetera,
Jacob Paulsen: then your pricing model is going to reflect that because your consumer is not Jacob.
Jacob Paulsen: Your consumer is LAPD and the Army.
Jacob Paulsen: And so you price your products based on those opportunities,
Jacob Paulsen: which you're going to have a higher price point by nature of where the dollars come from.
Jacob Paulsen: So anyway, my point is simply that it's not just that American manufacturers
Jacob Paulsen: can't make the product as efficiently and as cost-efficiently,
Jacob Paulsen: and certainly I'm sure that's a factor, but I think we also have to acknowledge
Jacob Paulsen: that it's also about business model and that if you're making these products
Jacob Paulsen: in the U.S., probably it's because you want TOD agreement contracts,
Jacob Paulsen: and so you're going to go to the market with a higher price point.
Riley Bowman: Sure that's fair i think
Riley Bowman: that they can also probably have both business strat you know strategies as
Riley Bowman: part of a you know potentially i mean you see that with you have toyota and
Riley Bowman: lexus you can have uh i mean there's examples of firearm manufacturers that
Riley Bowman: you know at one point catered more towards military le contracts that would be like glock uh
Riley Bowman: But, you know, in recent years, I feel like this is true, that Glock has tried
Riley Bowman: to shift more towards civilian market a little bit.
Riley Bowman: Still very interested in those, especially LE contracts.
Riley Bowman: SIG would be a great example of a company that has appealed to both military
Riley Bowman: LE contracts as well as civilian, you know, selling directly to the public.
Riley Bowman: And so, and I think that's gone very well for them. Like they have made money
Riley Bowman: hand over fist doing exactly what they've been doing.
Riley Bowman: I think there's companies that have been so focused on government contracts.
Riley Bowman: I think Colt would be a good example, especially on the AR-15 slash M-16, M-4 side of the house.
Riley Bowman: So focused on we're making military and law enforcement carbines and sort of
Riley Bowman: ignore the civilian market, sort of not even really produce anything pistol
Riley Bowman: or handgun wise that the market even really wants.
Riley Bowman: And then at some point you kind of see the shift where it's like oh this isn't
Riley Bowman: really working anymore we're not getting the contracts we once wore and having
Riley Bowman: to shift and go after different market segments so anyway always something that's
Riley Bowman: interesting uh to discuss and different strategies we can pursue i
Jacob Paulsen: Think i think the other you know brand aside is just this acknowledgement that
Jacob Paulsen: um red dots are here right like.
Riley Bowman: Well yeah and that 14
Jacob Paulsen: Out of 19 guns or 15 out of 19 or whatever it is like.
Riley Bowman: Holy crap i think that's the first big takeaway of the the data like part of
Riley Bowman: the reason of being here doing this episode here today i mean we've said this kind of before but
Riley Bowman: and we we've certainly talked about how we've seen that trend grow and grow
Riley Bowman: and grow over years i mean just even in the conference our guardian conference
Riley Bowman: over you know since the beginning the first year to last year definitely have
Riley Bowman: seen a huge growth in the number of folks that show up in courses that are running
Riley Bowman: optics now on their pistols.
Riley Bowman: This just confirms it even further. It is the dominant thing, especially amongst
Riley Bowman: The more, the people that actually train.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, people are taking classes.
Riley Bowman: That are going to classes that are like, not just casual gun owners.
Jacob Paulsen: Right, they're concerned about their performance.
Riley Bowman: I'm not trying to offend anybody here, but I suspect that there's still a lot
Riley Bowman: of just, you know, Joe blows out there or whatever that are just like,
Riley Bowman: you know, don't care or just are just buying whatever gun.
Jacob Paulsen: Well, it's inconvenient. It's expensive. The dot itself. And then I think your
Jacob Paulsen: average consumer, if you've been carrying the same gun for the last five,
Jacob Paulsen: six years, it's probably unlikely to be Red Dot ready to go.
Jacob Paulsen: So now I've got to get a new gun and or an aftermarket or updated new slide
Jacob Paulsen: or something, or I've got to get my current slide mailed to allow me to mount
Jacob Paulsen: the dot. So it's inconvenient and it's expensive.
Riley Bowman: But
Jacob Paulsen: Those who care about their performance about their ability to operate the gun
Jacob Paulsen: effectively and efficiently are going to move to the dot because it is easier
Jacob Paulsen: to run the gun better faster awesomer.
Riley Bowman: It just presents aiming information so much more clearly that's really what a red dot does
Riley Bowman: i am pretty agnostic towards which sighting system like is this better than
Riley Bowman: this you can debate that red dots are better or whatever but I think I've proven
Riley Bowman: it to myself and granted okay maybe I'm a little bit better skilled than the average folk
Riley Bowman: you can attest to that or whatever I don't care but
Riley Bowman: You can run an iron sight gun
Riley Bowman: really really well red dot guy and
Riley Bowman: i can run really well but which one is objectively like
Riley Bowman: less brain processing power intensive the
Riley Bowman: red dot you know and so that that probably is the advantage and i think that's
Riley Bowman: what people are discovering but that also comes with trade-offs especially as
Riley Bowman: they are learning the the system you know it's like oh hey well i was i point
Riley Bowman: my gun and with iron sights if it's not quite aligned then i can find the front
Riley Bowman: sight and put it in the rear sight and get things aligned.
Riley Bowman: And with the red dot, it's sometimes not quite as intuitive because you point
Riley Bowman: the gun at the target. It's like, where's the dot? And then you're fishing for it.
Riley Bowman: And of course, like we, we teach ways to hopefully solve that as efficiently as possible.
Riley Bowman: That's certainly important. And it doesn't have to be that complicated either,
Riley Bowman: or even really take all that much time.
Riley Bowman: But it is something to be mindful of.
Riley Bowman: But the fact is, is I remember when people were saying, hey,
Riley Bowman: red dots on pistols is a fad. That is clearly not the case.
Jacob Paulsen: If it was a fad, then ain't no more.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. So red dots are here to stay.
Riley Bowman: Lights. Lights is an interesting thing for this class.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, this one is the one probably that surprised me the most.
Jacob Paulsen: It's just how many people run in a gun with a weapon on a light.
Jacob Paulsen: And part of this is, again, kind of part of that overall loadout thing.
Jacob Paulsen: If you're running a duty holster, so like a duty type rig, then kind of probably,
Jacob Paulsen: almost certainly, you're going to put a light on it.
Jacob Paulsen: It's just kind of part of that overall strategy or approach or whatever.
Jacob Paulsen: Whereas if we had had a bunch of people in IWB holsters, it would have been
Jacob Paulsen: more interesting to see. But that said, here's what we got.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. Okay. So, all right. No light.
Jacob Paulsen: No light. No light.
Jacob Paulsen: Okay, sorry. My notes are a little bit hard to follow. No light.
Jacob Paulsen: Okay, so I just said there's a bunch of lights. Now I'm having no light. No light. Okay.
Jacob Paulsen: Here's our first light. A weapon amount of light. I didn't write down the bread.
Jacob Paulsen: I thought I did. Okay, so one weapon amount of light here.
Jacob Paulsen: And then here's another weapon amount of light. That's two. Here's three. Here's four.
Jacob Paulsen: Here's five. five, oh, I did write these down later. Okay, six, seven, eight, nine.
Jacob Paulsen: So I have nine weapon-mounted lights, and they are as follows.
Jacob Paulsen: A TLR7, a ModLight PLR350.
Riley Bowman: PL350.
Jacob Paulsen: Oh, a typo, sorry. I just read what I wrote. PL350. A TLR1, another TLR7,
Jacob Paulsen: another TLR7, another TLR1, another TLR1, an X300, an X-300 and another TLR-1.
Jacob Paulsen: So one, two, three, four TLR-1s, two X-300s, and then three TLR-7s and the Modlite.
Jacob Paulsen: So in total, okay, I said nine. I think that's actually 10.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, that's 10 total. So more than half, just barely.
Jacob Paulsen: You could call it basically half of these shooters are running a weapon-mounted
Jacob Paulsen: light, and a lot of TLR-1s and TLR-7s, a couple X-300s and a Modlite.
Riley Bowman: Yeah. So this class surprised me. I think part of it is because this class was
Riley Bowman: a little bit unique in that there was sort of like two core groups of attendees that, you know.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, friend group A, friend group B.
Riley Bowman: Self-promoted or, you know, promoted the class within their little group and
Riley Bowman: kind of got a bunch of their little, you know, friends to come and participate in the class.
Riley Bowman: And so there was obviously one group that very much was like,
Riley Bowman: yes, duty holster with a weapon mount of light.
Riley Bowman: And that was pretty much the setup and there were some other exceptions
Riley Bowman: including folks that were running from concealment with a
Riley Bowman: weapon mounted light yeah mostly still r7s yeah right and
Riley Bowman: so um but yeah this was a little
Riley Bowman: bit heavier on the weapon mounted light side that was i would say that is not
Riley Bowman: the typical typical not maybe so much the trend i guess the trend here is that
Riley Bowman: we see a certain percentage of folks including in on the concealment side so
Riley Bowman: like scott here he was commenting on Facebook.
Riley Bowman: He said, there's no WML on my EDC, no weapon mount light on my EDC.
Riley Bowman: There isn't on mine either. I mean, I've carried one on my EDC gun before.
Riley Bowman: I don't think Jacob ever has. Never.
Riley Bowman: But I'm not carrying one right now. I definitely have a decent defensive light
Riley Bowman: in my pocket here, ready for use and I'm familiar with using that and shooting with that.
Riley Bowman: But this class had quite a few folks running WMLs.
Jacob Paulsen: I'll add that outside of this class, though, it is my general perception that
Jacob Paulsen: the popularity of carrying a concealed gun with a weapon-mounted light is increasing.
Jacob Paulsen: That it is an upward trend. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that.
Jacob Paulsen: I think, one, we're seeing more holster options. I think we're also seeing the
Jacob Paulsen: birth of these smaller, more compact lights in a post-TLR7 era.
Riley Bowman: That is absolutely true.
Jacob Paulsen: Right, where we're no longer restricted to TLR1s and X300 size,
Jacob Paulsen: massive things mounted to the gun.
Jacob Paulsen: Now we have these lights that are not really extending the footprint of the
Jacob Paulsen: gun in terms of width or length beyond the muzzle. I think we're seeing that grow in popularity.
Jacob Paulsen: I think holster companies also seem to be – it's easier perhaps to find what you're looking for.
Jacob Paulsen: In the podcast we recorded last week, we also talked about how we're seeing
Jacob Paulsen: more companies rolling out lights in the Streamlight, TLR7X or A or whatever
Jacob Paulsen: you want to call it, footprint.
Jacob Paulsen: So anyway, I do think that there's generally an increased – it is a growing trend.
Riley Bowman: Okay. Yeah, a growing trend, sure. I could get out there.
Jacob Paulsen: Is it now the majority versus the minority? No.
Jacob Paulsen: Absolutely not. I think we went to the Guardian Conference where we're less
Jacob Paulsen: likely to see duty rigs and much more likely to see concealment gear and things like that.
Jacob Paulsen: I think we would not find half the people with a weapon of light.
Jacob Paulsen: We might find more like 15% to 20%.
Jacob Paulsen: But I do think that that number is growing. It's increasing.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, yeah. I think you're spot on with the analysis of that technology making
Riley Bowman: it possible to make those things smaller and smaller and still effective is
Riley Bowman: part of the explanation for why that is more of a growing trend.
Riley Bowman: Um and yeah and again from amongst all
Riley Bowman: the like different ksg armory revere holsters that we
Riley Bowman: sell a substantial portion of those are glock 43x or 48s or p365s or p365x macros
Riley Bowman: with um with the tlar7 sub lights on them yes um and so people are are are digging
Riley Bowman: that kind of setup it's sort of And here's the thing,
Riley Bowman: we can debate how useful having a weapon-mounted light on a concealed carry,
Riley Bowman: kind of citizen-oriented personal defense gun is.
Riley Bowman: But I know that some people are just like, hey, it doesn't hurt me to have that.
Riley Bowman: And in a world where I can make the light small enough to be inconsequential
Riley Bowman: and have a decent holster that carries it comfortably, sort of like, why not have it?
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. It is a why not question. And I think there are some potential why nots
Jacob Paulsen: for any given individual there. It might be resolvable.
Jacob Paulsen: Holster selection is certainly a potential why not. But it's like,
Jacob Paulsen: oh, no, no. For me, for my gun, my light, there's plenty of holsters that I like. Okay, cool.
Jacob Paulsen: Another potential white knot is it is a bigger footprint to conceal.
Jacob Paulsen: I mean, it just is. It is more stuff in my pants that I have to be comfortable with.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure. Now, above the belt line, it doesn't impact it at all,
Jacob Paulsen: but it can impact my comfort and my ability to conceal it the way I want to. So that's a potential.
Riley Bowman: You know what my counter to that would be is that with concealment holsters,
Riley Bowman: we sometimes talk about, as John Houtman at Philster termed it, the keel principle.
Riley Bowman: Meaning that if we have more length or just more keel below the belt line,
Riley Bowman: meaning more holster and gear below the belt line, helps sometimes balance out the stuff above
Jacob Paulsen: The belt line. But longer and wider are not the same thing. I agree with that.
Riley Bowman: But having carried a full-size P320 with a TLR1 light on it...
Jacob Paulsen: You know you're 6'2", right?
Riley Bowman: I am large, but it concealed exceptionally well.
Jacob Paulsen: All my...
Jacob Paulsen: It's been a long time that I've been running appendix holsters where the holster
Jacob Paulsen: is artificially lengthened longer than the barrel is.
Jacob Paulsen: So right now on me, I have a CC9 and a Lexington, and that holster was made,
Jacob Paulsen: quote, as long as it can be made.
Jacob Paulsen: That's how I had our – I don't make them.
Jacob Paulsen: Because anyone's wondering, I don't know how to make these holsters.
Jacob Paulsen: I watch these guys make them. But that was the instruction I gave to Sam who
Jacob Paulsen: made this holster. I said, make it as long as you can make it.
Jacob Paulsen: So length does not impact really my ability to conceal it. It only helps.
Jacob Paulsen: But width does impact my ability to conceal it comfortably.
Riley Bowman: Conceal or just to carry it comfortably?
Jacob Paulsen: To carry it comfortably. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you're correct.
Jacob Paulsen: It doesn't really have any impact
Jacob Paulsen: on concealment, but it does impact how comfortable it is below my belt.
Riley Bowman: I think when the holster is designed well, it can actually aid in concealment,
Riley Bowman: but the comfort can become an issue.
Jacob Paulsen: It's a potential why not. That's what I said. It's a potential.
Jacob Paulsen: So for you, maybe it's no impact.
Jacob Paulsen: Maybe for you, you're like, no, it's just as comfortable for me as my non-weapon-mounted light,
Jacob Paulsen: my non-light bearing holster okay cool but it's a potential why
Jacob Paulsen: not yep and i think a third potential why not is
Jacob Paulsen: cost sure you know these these lights are not free
Jacob Paulsen: and having to get additional or different holster is
Jacob Paulsen: also additional cost so if i got to drop 150 to 250 for the light and then an
Jacob Paulsen: additional 70 to 80 bucks for another holster that's a potential why not sure
Jacob Paulsen: so yes i think my point is there are some potential why nots uh but in from
Jacob Paulsen: a technical perspective yeah It's all upside if I have a light on my gun.
Riley Bowman: Now, here's a question. You may not have necessarily tracked this,
Riley Bowman: but this is more anecdotal.
Riley Bowman: From that Spokane class, a pistol intelligence class recently,
Riley Bowman: those that were running from concealment, how many of them were appendix versus
Riley Bowman: some other concealed carry position?
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, yeah. So I did track IWB versus OWB.
Jacob Paulsen: So count my IWBs. Here we go. Yep. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.
Jacob Paulsen: Four, five, six, six. So six IWBs.
Jacob Paulsen: So you've shrunk in the universe from 19 shooters down to six.
Riley Bowman: I've had classes for sure where most of the attendees were concealment and a
Riley Bowman: few were outside waistband or something.
Riley Bowman: Of those six, how many were appendix versus not?
Jacob Paulsen: So I have to go off memory because I did not write that down.
Riley Bowman: I've got the answer in my head.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, I'm thinking this one for sure was appendix.
Jacob Paulsen: This one for sure was not appendix.
Jacob Paulsen: That one I don't remember. And that one was appendix.
Jacob Paulsen: So I'd say of, how am I going to say six total? Six. So I'd say four for sure were appendix.
Riley Bowman: Were appendix, yeah.
Jacob Paulsen: One for sure was not.
Riley Bowman: There's for sure one of the students I remember very distinctly was drawing
Riley Bowman: from the hip or slightly behind the hip yeah i don't
Riley Bowman: know beyond that for certain the point here is
Riley Bowman: is that the we're talking here today you know trends and
Riley Bowman: kind of like what is today's concealed carrier landscape look like uh most people
Riley Bowman: red dots on their guns most people carrying you know in a civilian context carrying
Riley Bowman: concealed those that are carrying in the appendix carry position by and large
Riley Bowman: um and oh the final thing we didn't touch on almost forgot and i am kind of
Riley Bowman: at a point i'm supposed to be wrapping this up so i can uh go pick up my boys from school but it's
Jacob Paulsen: Only two of our iwb people had a weapon out of life by the way yeah so.
Riley Bowman: One of whom was one of the smallest people
Jacob Paulsen: Yes with the full-size gun and a weapon and a light.
Riley Bowman: That's always fascinating to me Real quick, what problems do we have?
Riley Bowman: Malfunctions of any kind.
Jacob Paulsen: So we had...
Jacob Paulsen: Several interesting issues with shadow systems in fact
Jacob Paulsen: all three shadow systems that were in this class had a malfuncton yeah
Jacob Paulsen: um the first one was definitely an
Jacob Paulsen: like ammo specific thing swapped out the ammo had no more issues with that gun
Jacob Paulsen: uh the other two i wrote down shadow systems number two and shadow systems number
Jacob Paulsen: three both had feed issues but they did not seem to be ammo related you were
Jacob Paulsen: you looked at them more closely than i did so i'm not sure yeah i can't speak to Completely agree.
Riley Bowman: The one for sure was attributed to the ammo. The ammo was just bad ammo.
Riley Bowman: We witnessed how what would happen is as that round would get picked up and
Riley Bowman: pushed towards the chamber, the round would get pushed back into the case.
Riley Bowman: It would get set back into the case every time.
Riley Bowman: So it was ammo that was manufactured. It was from a large scale manufacturer
Riley Bowman: too. And sometimes just bad batches go out.
Riley Bowman: Just failed to have a good cramp on that so that the bullet wouldn't set back.
Riley Bowman: But, yeah, that's a problem when it just, even on one attempt of chambering
Riley Bowman: around, it gets pushed back. It's a big-time problem.
Riley Bowman: That was definitely ammo-related. But, yeah, I definitely agree that there were some feeding issues.
Riley Bowman: It seemed to be feeding issues with the Shadow Systems guns,
Riley Bowman: just failing to get round into chamber.
Riley Bowman: Not as much like an extraction or rejection issue, but more of a feeding issue. Other malfunctions?
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah, so we had a couple of similar issues with the Prodigy.
Jacob Paulsen: So the Prodigy was just not returning fully into battery, almost like the recoil
Jacob Paulsen: spring wasn't strong enough, or just need more oil.
Riley Bowman: Dirty dirty
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah like i've seen that yeah.
Riley Bowman: I see guys that run a 2011 style gun uh they get you know just really kind of
Riley Bowman: dirty gummed up you know you got to be on top of maintenance on those things
Riley Bowman: um i've seen it where those guns the slides will cycle so like i can just watch
Riley Bowman: the slide just go chunk chunk and that's a sign that it's time to to
Riley Bowman: get that thing lubricated or cleaned or something. And that's probably what
Riley Bowman: was going on here with that particular gun.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. And we don't, it's unclear because he, he basically pulled that gun off
Jacob Paulsen: the line and came back with a different gun.
Jacob Paulsen: So we don't know what, what would have been necessary to, to fuse all that.
Jacob Paulsen: And the last one was a VP nine.
Jacob Paulsen: It was a mag issue. It was, it was an aftermarket mag.
Riley Bowman: That, well, that was what I believe is that I overstuffed that.
Riley Bowman: So that's a competition magazine that default, I can put 22 rounds in.
Riley Bowman: I think I actually, I think I, I can squeeze 23 rounds in those Macs.
Riley Bowman: I think I stuck 23 rounds in that Mac.
Riley Bowman: And so I know that I think just in the process loading for, you know,
Riley Bowman: between relays, the class, I just overstuffed that Mac.
Riley Bowman: So as soon as it happened, I was like, oh yeah, I overstuffed that Mac.
Riley Bowman: They, they have not given me issues as long as I don't put more than 22 rounds
Riley Bowman: in those particular competition Macs.
Jacob Paulsen: Yeah. So not a gun failure really. No, I didn't. No. It's a user-induced mag failure.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, I know that I shouldn't put – I think part of it is I'm still narrowing
Riley Bowman: down which mags I can get away with it.
Riley Bowman: There are certain mags. So, like, I got – you know, they're labeled.
Riley Bowman: And so, like, I do further testing and be like, yeah, that mag I can put 23
Riley Bowman: rounds in and it's not too tight to chamber a round.
Riley Bowman: But so, yeah, that was definitely one of the other failures. Anything else?
Jacob Paulsen: That was it on the malfunction side.
Riley Bowman: So what was interesting about this class is that almost every class I see a
Riley Bowman: failure or two of optics.
Riley Bowman: I don't recall any optics failing in this class, which was pretty impressive.
Jacob Paulsen: No, we might have seen a battery get changed here or there, but I don't remember any failures.
Jacob Paulsen: And just broadly speaking, it's interesting to me.
Jacob Paulsen: We had, what did I say, nine Glocks
Jacob Paulsen: on the line. We didn't see any Glock failures. To me, that's unusual.
Jacob Paulsen: Two MMPs, neither of them failed. Like we had perhaps a higher echelon of consumer
Jacob Paulsen: who probably was going home, cleaning guns, oiling guns at night before day two.
Jacob Paulsen: Because I just think on day two, you start to see some failures across the board.
Jacob Paulsen: And I don't think that there's manufacturers that are immune from that.
Jacob Paulsen: But we just didn't see them this time.
Riley Bowman: Yeah, I mean, blocks are still very reliable guns.
Jacob Paulsen: Sure, sure, sure.
Riley Bowman: But are they infallible? Like some people would have you believe?
Riley Bowman: No. We've certainly proven that and seen that happen.
Riley Bowman: So the most common failures you see with optics, just for those that care to
Riley Bowman: know, that I see, and I'm speaking broadly of all the classes I've taught and
Riley Bowman: events I've attended and taught at, it is either batteries that die.
Riley Bowman: So people aren't changing their batteries often enough or the
Riley Bowman: optic itself or plate it's mounted to or something to that effect
Riley Bowman: it's a mounting error where it comes loose uh
Riley Bowman: which is almost always a failure to install it properly sure
Riley Bowman: okay following the right procedures to do that and so didn't see that this time
Riley Bowman: so that was really cool to see that's good that's positive that's a big thing
Riley Bowman: make sure your red dots are installed correctly and that you're changing batteries
Riley Bowman: frequently enough whatever schedule you need to be on some optics you can change
Riley Bowman: once a year so I've got to be every six months. I've got to be every three months. Okay.
Riley Bowman: And it doesn't hurt to change it more frequently than, than that.
Riley Bowman: You know, I mean, whatever you can afford battery wise, I buy Duracell batteries
Riley Bowman: on Amazon and like bulk packs that are pretty affordable.
Riley Bowman: And then I just got a bunch and I swapped them out pretty religiously.
Riley Bowman: So if you're doing that, chances are, I just don't see that much in the way
Riley Bowman: of optic failures anymore.
Riley Bowman: It's rare that I've had an optic just die.
Riley Bowman: Like where it just stops working it happens but it is the most common things
Riley Bowman: is usually someone's like my dot stopped working it's like we'll go swap the
Riley Bowman: battery they swap the battery and they're back up and so like that explains
Riley Bowman: like nine out of ten of those types of failures
Jacob Paulsen: Sure i mean i've had a dot fail you've you've seen dots fail it's just like
Jacob Paulsen: you said it's it's not the common the common issue is battery's dead or you
Jacob Paulsen: didn't mount this problem yep.
Riley Bowman: Exactly we didn't have those issues this time
Riley Bowman: but that doesn't mean it won't be the issue next time and so hopefully you've
Riley Bowman: got some information today that'll be helpful to you in
Riley Bowman: the future attending maybe your next class or whatever
Riley Bowman: uh so with that we got to start wrapping it
Riley Bowman: up here today's episode again sponsored by the pistol the online pistol intelligence
Riley Bowman: class which you can find at concealedcarry.com forward slash piq course and
Riley Bowman: our other sponsor of today's episode is the ksg armory revere holster available
Riley Bowman: at ksgarmory.com forward slash revere.
Riley Bowman: We'll let people go. Any final words? Nope.
Jacob Paulsen: I think that's it. We appreciate your business. Next time you're shopping for
Jacob Paulsen: something, check it out at concealedcarry.com.
Riley Bowman: Thanks everybody for watching and listening. Until next time,
Riley Bowman: a reminder to train right, train often, and train safe so you can fight hard,
Riley Bowman: fight fast, and fight true.
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