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Welcome to the Untoxicated

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podcast.

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Well, I'm Sherry Salas, and that was my

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husband, Matt. We have questions about the impact

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of alcohol and addiction on relationships.

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If you have those kinds of questions too,

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you're in the right place. Here we

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go.

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So we're going with Musketeers. Is that right?

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Yeah. Going with okay. We're gonna start a

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little inside baseball. Only

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a fraction of our listening audience will understand,

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but that fraction of our listening audience is

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very important. We are here at the 2024

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version

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of the Echoes of Recovery Retreat in the

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Colorado Rocky Mountains

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with our retreat attendees, and we have just

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come up

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with the signature name. And I gotta say,

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it is a great name. Evie, you're gonna

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get a lot of credit for this one.

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Yes. How much do I make from it?

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Well, you get

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you get a 50 share of the advertising

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revenue from this

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episode. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta remember never to

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put advertising. That's that's an episode even like

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That's not recorded now.

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So On the record.

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So moose get tears, and that was because

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we saw a moose. Saw a moose. We

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saw a moose. Seen him a couple times.

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The first time

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we saw the moose, it was on the

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way in

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from the airport.

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We hadn't even been to the retreat house

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yet. We had just turned the corner off

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the highway onto, like, the country road,

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and I believe it was Nikki and you,

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Lauren,

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who spotted the moose.

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And we were

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ho ho. And some others in the car

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ho ho ho. Some others in the car

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were like, oh, yeah. Sure. He saw a

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moose. Right? Yeah. We lived here for 20

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years. I've seen a moose twice, and you

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just saw one. Sure you did.

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But it was. It was a moose because

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we've seen him a couple times now.

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Congratulations.

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Thank you. Like, we weren't bullying the first

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time. I know. You should be really upset.

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I am pissed. I know you are. I

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know.

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Nikki is And some of us actually pissing

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you. Did you try to Some of us

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in the car was you, Matt. Yeah. You

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you you you. You were the one that

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was I was the downer. You're right. Yeah.

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Yeah. You saw a big deal. I know

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how that works. Right? Yeah. Funny how the

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tables turn.

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And then we saw it the next day,

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day, and it was in a hailstorm. So

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all hail the Musketeers.

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Welcome to

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the intoxicated podcast. Thank you all so much

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for being here. How the hell are you

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doing?

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Good stuff. So to the naked turtles

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and the hummingbird ninjas, you have,

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a 3rd anniversary

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sisterhood, and they've got a really cool name.

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And so this is a live roundtable

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podcast from the Echoes of Recovery Retreat 20

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24 version.

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Our topic for today, you know, and I'm

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gonna I'm gonna fall on the sword. We've

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done a bunch of these retreat episodes. Haven't

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we, Sherry? Yeah. Not just with the echo

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retreat, but also merge evolution.

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And we always pick a pretty kinda

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Heavy,

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intense,

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lots of detail sort of

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questions in the podcast topic. Oh, I was

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gonna say an easy one. But Oh. I

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feel like we had, like,

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the You get emotional. It was yeah. Yeah.

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You're right. And the first echoes retreat was

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pretty Oh, that was much. That was yeah.

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That was a lot of that was, like,

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questions. I bet if you go back and

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listen to your questions or check your old

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notebooks to see the questions you asked, you

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Well, everyone knows how much I love to

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make you cry, so I figured we've got

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a whole group of people. Let's see how

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we can help you.

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Tissues? They're right there.

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Yeah. I'm kidding. That's not really that's not

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really true at all. I hate to see

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people cry. But, the topic, we're gonna ask

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people to go back in the way back

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machine and remember things from not just present

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day, your present day emotions, and your present

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day relationships, but

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we're gonna go back in time a little

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bit, and we're gonna talk about your changing

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needs over time with this roundtable.

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So I hope you guys are excited about

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that. With us today

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at the Echoes of Recovery Retreat

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is Nikki, Evie, Melanie, Kristen, Nicole, Lauren,

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Ali, and Julie. Thank you all for being

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here. Hope you guys have been having a

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good time. Yes.

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Yeah. Yep. Awesome. It's been wonderful.

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So the title of the episode

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is meeting

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meeting your changing needs.

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That's what we're talking about, meeting your changing

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needs. And I thought that's kinda cumbersome. Obviously,

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I can't say it. I really I thought

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about naming it the getting your needs met

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roundtable,

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but that sounds too much like an orgy.

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I thought that's a

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that's a mafia.

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And I don't think anyone would wanna listen

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to that. So my my real first question

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is,

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what needs did you have when you first

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met your partner?

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That's tough, isn't it? None. None. Tell me

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more.

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I'm 21.

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I had no idea what needs meant in

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a relationship.

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Yeah. So I couldn't say that I had,

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like, specific ones that I needed met in

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a partner at at the time. In in

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a partner or can you go beyond it?

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Like, did you know what your needs were

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regardless of a partner?

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I mean, it's kind of a loaded question,

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but I was kinda hoping someone would

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say that. That's what I was gonna say

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that, you know, jumped in. But I don't

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even think that I would have known what

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I needed or was looking for other than,

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like, comparing

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you, Matt, to the other people I had

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and what I didn't want anymore. Like, I

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didn't say what I didn't want,

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but I didn't know what I wanted or

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needed

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or or felt like I

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needed. I would say that needs were very

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superficial.

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Yes. Like, I needed,

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you know, to go out and have a

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good time and I needed him to meet

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all my friends

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and be liked and

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I don't know They were just it was

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nothing meaningful to the relationship

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necessarily.

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So was like,

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showing off

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your boyfriend, like, some more kinda aesthetic

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physical, like, look at my cute boyfriend. Was

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that kinda higher on the list then? And

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look at me. I have a boyfriend. Oh,

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yeah. And he's older than me and he's

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got a real job and he's

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cool and drives a truck.

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Yeah. All of those superficial things.

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So either superficial or unaware?

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Mhmm. I think I was older. Mine was

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so I we were going around the table

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before the the podcast started

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and I was

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27 almost 28 when I met my husband.

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So I had dated, you know, had a

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bunch of first dates before that. I knew

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I said that did not make it past

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that. And so I think I knew what

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I wanted.

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I knew I wanted if I was gonna,

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you know, if we're gonna do this, I

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wanted to find someone that I wanted to

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marry and I wanted to have kids with,

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because I was kind of more in that

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stage of life.

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So I was looking for more stability with

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a job,

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career potential,

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and then there's just like things I feel

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like now looking back at it, that should

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be a given like safety,

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you know,

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companionship,

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respect,

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things that you just assumed you were gonna

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get when you,

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went forward with that relationship.

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Yeah. We're gonna dive. Especially at that age.

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Right? Yeah. When you find the people that

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you Yes. It's like, oh,

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job, career,

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you know, underway, and then you think that

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it's that's just gonna be given. And then

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the other thing too, I wanted,

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like, you know, I was older, so I

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I

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was pretty independent. So I wanted someone who

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who would respect that,

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sort of turned on me when, you know,

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he turned to alcohol and definitely

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allowed me to do my own thing.

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But, yeah,

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just just different definitely, if I would have

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met him when I was 21, I definitely

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would have looked for different things and been

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in a

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different place in my own life.

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Mhmm. I think for me, I

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so I was 17, but

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I had already been cheated on by a

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really crappy boyfriend. I should not have let

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hang around as long as I did. And

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so fidelity was a big thing for me

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or someone who,

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acted like I was the most important thing

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in the world, which even throughout

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everything we've been through, he still has me

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on a pedestal.

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So I guess I found that. But, but

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I was seeking someone. I wasn't looking for

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I didn't wanna I did not want a

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boyfriend because I was a couple months before

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graduating high school, going off to this big

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school and I

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did not wanna be tied down. So that

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wasn't gonna happen, but it did. But, yeah,

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I definitely

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I was looking for a little more honesty,

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I guess. I'm curious.

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Pedestal. I never did. Well, I mean, I

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guess I did back then, but that's maybe

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a change in need. But, but now it's

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kinda irritating.

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It's a lot of pressure. It is a

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lot of pressure. Yeah. For sure. I don't

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even need like, I just wanted someone who

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wasn't clingy because my previous boyfriend was such

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a clinger. Mhmm. I was like, you're not

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clingy. You have a car, and you're working.

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It looks like you could be doing something.

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That was literally it. Someone who wasn't a

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clinger. Mhmm. Just a baseline of my knees.

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That's really interesting. You mentioned that. Nicole, you

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mentioned that you've been cheated on. I was

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cheated on in college with a previous girlfriend.

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And so immediately when you said that, I

270
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went, oh, yeah. Like, one of the big

271
00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:24,420
things I was what?

272
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,040
What are you saying about? Happened. That made

273
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,300
you absolutely clingy. I know.

274
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:30,899
You definitely,

275
00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:33,225
Lauren, didn't want someone who had been cheated

276
00:09:33,225 --> 00:09:35,485
on prior to you because that were

277
00:09:36,024 --> 00:09:38,605
yeah. But I think that's interesting how

278
00:09:38,985 --> 00:09:41,230
you maybe don't recognize what your needs are

279
00:09:41,230 --> 00:09:42,990
on, like, a conscious level, except for the

280
00:09:42,990 --> 00:09:45,309
ways you've already been stung. Right? Yeah. Even

281
00:09:45,309 --> 00:09:47,445
if it's limited because you're young. Right. That's

282
00:09:47,445 --> 00:09:48,825
true. That's super interesting.

283
00:09:49,205 --> 00:09:50,665
Kristen, you mentioned kids.

284
00:09:51,045 --> 00:09:53,524
Most people, but not everybody at this roundtable

285
00:09:53,524 --> 00:09:54,264
has kids.

286
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,279
At young age, when you're first meeting your

287
00:09:59,279 --> 00:09:59,779
partner,

288
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,240
maybe you're starting maybe your college, maybe you're

289
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,465
starting a professional career. Are you thinking about

290
00:10:04,465 --> 00:10:04,815
kids at that point? Are you thinking, I

291
00:10:04,815 --> 00:10:05,745
really want to have kids and is this

292
00:10:05,745 --> 00:10:07,105
the right person? So I can pop in

293
00:10:07,105 --> 00:10:08,304
on this from the perspective of someone who

294
00:10:08,304 --> 00:10:10,725
was older, like Kristen, when I met my

295
00:10:11,149 --> 00:10:13,410
from the perspective of someone who was older,

296
00:10:13,629 --> 00:10:16,049
like Kristen, when I met my husband. Okay.

297
00:10:16,190 --> 00:10:18,690
And, you know, I was I was established.

298
00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:20,129
I had a house.

299
00:10:22,894 --> 00:10:25,455
What stood out to me was not, oh,

300
00:10:25,455 --> 00:10:27,294
I want kids. It wasn't like, I wanna

301
00:10:27,294 --> 00:10:28,115
have a baby.

302
00:10:28,495 --> 00:10:30,669
It was I was reaching an age. I've

303
00:10:30,830 --> 00:10:32,769
the guy that I had been dating previously

304
00:10:33,470 --> 00:10:35,629
was very adamant. He did not want children,

305
00:10:35,629 --> 00:10:37,470
and I respected that there was an age

306
00:10:37,470 --> 00:10:39,284
gap in our difference, and I

307
00:10:43,605 --> 00:10:44,264
but I

308
00:10:44,644 --> 00:10:46,964
had reached a point in that relationship prior

309
00:10:47,125 --> 00:10:48,329
just prior to meeting,

310
00:10:49,029 --> 00:10:49,850
my husband

311
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:50,889
that

312
00:10:53,269 --> 00:10:55,509
we were morphing, and I knew that if

313
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:57,464
I did if I wanted to have a

314
00:10:57,464 --> 00:10:57,964
family,

315
00:10:58,825 --> 00:11:01,945
I needed to let that relationship go and

316
00:11:01,945 --> 00:11:04,585
open myself up to someone who did want

317
00:11:04,585 --> 00:11:06,710
a family. So it wasn't so much like,

318
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:08,570
I wanna have kids with you. It was

319
00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:10,870
I want there to be the option of

320
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:11,309
their

321
00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:14,250
of having children in the future. Yeah. Exactly.

322
00:11:14,309 --> 00:11:15,450
That was very important.

323
00:11:15,834 --> 00:11:18,975
I think even even though it wasn't necessarily

324
00:11:19,194 --> 00:11:21,595
on my mind because I was 21 about

325
00:11:21,595 --> 00:11:24,279
to turn 22, I in some ways

326
00:11:24,580 --> 00:11:27,539
it's on every woman's mind like if if

327
00:11:27,539 --> 00:11:29,059
I wanna have kids or if I want

328
00:11:29,059 --> 00:11:31,125
the option of having kids there's a time

329
00:11:31,125 --> 00:11:33,304
limit right? So I think that

330
00:11:33,764 --> 00:11:34,264
is

331
00:11:34,725 --> 00:11:37,044
something that we all have thought about at

332
00:11:37,044 --> 00:11:39,759
some point in our lives you know? Yeah.

333
00:11:40,639 --> 00:11:42,160
Before we got married, we had to have

334
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,759
all those talks. We wanted the same number

335
00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:45,919
of kids, and we had all those just

336
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,440
because we dated for four and a half

337
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,955
years all through college and got married after

338
00:11:49,955 --> 00:11:50,455
graduation.

339
00:11:51,315 --> 00:11:53,715
But but, yeah, if he had said he

340
00:11:53,715 --> 00:11:55,980
didn't wanna have kids, I probably wouldn't married

341
00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:56,639
him, honestly.

342
00:11:57,019 --> 00:11:57,519
Mhmm.

343
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:00,539
Because I really wanted to. The guy in

344
00:12:00,539 --> 00:12:01,200
and said,

345
00:12:02,299 --> 00:12:03,793
4 months in, let's just I know the

346
00:12:03,793 --> 00:12:04,559
plan was kinda made for you. What's the

347
00:12:05,735 --> 00:12:07,654
worst I could have been? I did though.

348
00:12:07,654 --> 00:12:09,014
I did put his last name because I

349
00:12:09,014 --> 00:12:10,454
was a kid. And I was like, oh,

350
00:12:10,454 --> 00:12:12,375
his last name sounds good with my name.

351
00:12:12,375 --> 00:12:14,134
That could that was the other So you

352
00:12:14,134 --> 00:12:16,459
needed someone with a cool last name? Totally.

353
00:12:16,459 --> 00:12:17,199
Oh, me.

354
00:12:17,659 --> 00:12:19,199
Yeah. Same. That's what it was.

355
00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:21,019
Yeah. I went to some point someone higher

356
00:12:21,019 --> 00:12:22,639
up in the alpha. Same. I went

357
00:12:23,144 --> 00:12:24,204
from w to h.

358
00:12:24,664 --> 00:12:25,164
Wow.

359
00:12:25,625 --> 00:12:27,784
S to g. I chose from the 12

360
00:12:27,784 --> 00:12:29,625
letters to look at the Yeah. I got

361
00:12:29,625 --> 00:12:30,605
the last letters.

362
00:12:30,985 --> 00:12:33,179
So less letters higher at the end, but

363
00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:35,840
and sounds good with your first name. Yeah.

364
00:12:36,139 --> 00:12:38,779
For sure. I know all of you reasonably

365
00:12:38,779 --> 00:12:40,379
well. And so when I was preparing the

366
00:12:40,379 --> 00:12:42,735
questions for this episode, I was anticipating your

367
00:12:42,735 --> 00:12:43,235
answers.

368
00:12:43,695 --> 00:12:45,075
That's not what I anticipated

369
00:12:45,695 --> 00:12:47,934
unless you cared about the alphabetical order of

370
00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:50,175
your last name. Did you Just a bonus.

371
00:12:50,175 --> 00:12:52,340
Did you not ever write your, like, in

372
00:12:52,340 --> 00:12:54,179
high school, like, you would make, like, your

373
00:12:54,179 --> 00:12:56,100
last your first name? That's not a boy

374
00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:58,019
thing. Cute. I don't think that's a boy

375
00:12:58,019 --> 00:12:59,904
thing. That's not a boy thing. No. Because

376
00:12:59,904 --> 00:13:01,585
they they don't change their name. Really, it

377
00:13:01,585 --> 00:13:02,644
was kind of girly.

378
00:13:04,065 --> 00:13:05,825
I am in text with my feminine side.

379
00:13:05,825 --> 00:13:06,945
Can we say it that way? Yeah. You're

380
00:13:07,024 --> 00:13:08,225
I mean, I feel like that's a better

381
00:13:08,225 --> 00:13:09,970
way to say it. Sure. And you have

382
00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:11,410
a lot of friends that were real, so

383
00:13:11,410 --> 00:13:13,009
I don't know. But you probably saw their

384
00:13:13,009 --> 00:13:14,629
notebooks, like, when she was

385
00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:17,404
no? No. This is taking me by surprise.

386
00:13:18,665 --> 00:13:19,165
So,

387
00:13:20,585 --> 00:13:22,504
so is it okay. So I love the

388
00:13:22,504 --> 00:13:24,105
way you phrased that, Ali, and it sounds

389
00:13:24,105 --> 00:13:26,910
like there's some agreement anyway. It wasn't necessarily

390
00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:29,529
that you definitely wanted to have kids, but

391
00:13:29,529 --> 00:13:31,769
you wanted the option and you knew that

392
00:13:31,769 --> 00:13:33,450
the person that you were with, that wasn't

393
00:13:33,450 --> 00:13:34,694
gonna be an option with this person, so

394
00:13:34,694 --> 00:13:35,194
you

395
00:13:35,735 --> 00:13:37,414
needed to to kinda look for that. So

396
00:13:37,414 --> 00:13:38,554
I think that,

397
00:13:39,334 --> 00:13:39,834
availability

398
00:13:40,214 --> 00:13:42,509
was a was a need. That was kind

399
00:13:42,509 --> 00:13:45,070
of my situation too, my previous relationship. I

400
00:13:45,070 --> 00:13:46,909
knew I didn't wanna have kids with him

401
00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:48,589
because just So it wasn't a matter of

402
00:13:48,589 --> 00:13:50,665
he didn't wanna have kids. No. I knew

403
00:13:50,665 --> 00:13:52,985
I didn't wanna have kids with him. So

404
00:13:52,985 --> 00:13:53,644
that was

405
00:13:54,105 --> 00:13:55,705
part of the reason that I ended that

406
00:13:55,705 --> 00:13:58,100
relationship. So, yeah, that was something

407
00:13:58,959 --> 00:14:01,279
and, like, we worked together in a in

408
00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:05,065
a raising kids environment, so I knew how

409
00:14:05,065 --> 00:14:05,965
he would be,

410
00:14:07,225 --> 00:14:09,945
raising kids. So that was, yeah, something that

411
00:14:09,945 --> 00:14:11,565
you at least wanted to have the option.

412
00:14:12,850 --> 00:14:13,670
Okay. Great.

413
00:14:14,529 --> 00:14:17,250
Anything else on that? On, your needs when

414
00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:18,790
you first Smart.

415
00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:21,170
I think I've said this before. Yeah. They're

416
00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:22,804
like, I needed needed somebody that was smart.

417
00:14:22,804 --> 00:14:24,164
I needed to meet somebody that was smart.

418
00:14:24,164 --> 00:14:26,424
Well, you're very smart. I couldn't I couldn't

419
00:14:26,485 --> 00:14:27,845
do and I had dated

420
00:14:28,245 --> 00:14:30,720
Yeah. Yeah bluntly stupid before.

421
00:14:31,740 --> 00:14:34,220
But Yeah. I I discovered that about myself

422
00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:36,220
previous to meeting my husband and Yeah. Just

423
00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:38,455
someone who could, like, you know, be your

424
00:14:38,595 --> 00:14:41,095
equal. Yes. Yeah. And challenge you and

425
00:14:41,634 --> 00:14:42,695
yeah. Yeah.

426
00:14:43,075 --> 00:14:45,340
And the good sense of humor, compatibility,

427
00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:47,019
somebody that respected

428
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,960
and, like you said, kinda let you, you

429
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,315
know, not try to overrule what you wanted

430
00:14:52,315 --> 00:14:53,674
to do type of thing. So, yeah, there

431
00:14:53,674 --> 00:14:55,914
was I think it was, like, simple needs

432
00:14:55,914 --> 00:14:57,754
though. Yeah. So with a plan for their

433
00:14:57,754 --> 00:14:59,195
own life, like, I mean, as young as

434
00:14:59,195 --> 00:15:00,360
I was, I had my plans. I don't

435
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,860
think my parents would have blessed anything if,

436
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,440
you know, if he wasn't if he didn't

437
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:05,500
have his own goals.

438
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,075
Mhmm. Mhmm. I have brothers. So I have,

439
00:15:09,534 --> 00:15:11,294
I'm 1 of 5, and they're all all

440
00:15:11,294 --> 00:15:11,794
brothers.

441
00:15:12,495 --> 00:15:14,434
So I needed someone that could

442
00:15:15,610 --> 00:15:16,350
be confident

443
00:15:17,129 --> 00:15:18,490
and be like, that I knew my brothers

444
00:15:18,490 --> 00:15:20,250
would like, that would wanna be friends with

445
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:22,110
my brothers. That was important to me.

446
00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:24,589
Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

447
00:15:25,595 --> 00:15:27,195
In a weird way, I felt like I

448
00:15:27,195 --> 00:15:29,915
also, at the time, wanted someone to, like,

449
00:15:29,915 --> 00:15:31,915
take care of me because I was so

450
00:15:31,915 --> 00:15:33,279
young and felt,

451
00:15:34,699 --> 00:15:36,779
you know, you watched all the, like, girly

452
00:15:36,779 --> 00:15:37,279
movies

453
00:15:37,659 --> 00:15:39,360
and you see all these, like,

454
00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:42,764
coming on a horse and, you know, like,

455
00:15:42,764 --> 00:15:45,085
I just I don't know. That's just what

456
00:15:45,085 --> 00:15:47,485
I envisioned at the time and but I

457
00:15:47,485 --> 00:15:49,165
didn't really like, I'm hearing all your guys'

458
00:15:49,165 --> 00:15:51,750
thoughts. I'm like, I definitely was not thinking

459
00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:53,910
about a lot of these things.

460
00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:57,330
Yeah. Well, like you said, you wanted him

461
00:15:57,330 --> 00:15:59,170
to get along with your brothers. I wanted

462
00:15:59,170 --> 00:16:00,945
him to get along with my friends. I

463
00:16:00,945 --> 00:16:02,945
wanted my friends because my friends were a

464
00:16:02,945 --> 00:16:04,784
really big deal to me. I mean, they

465
00:16:04,784 --> 00:16:07,184
still are, but You're an only child. That's

466
00:16:07,345 --> 00:16:09,570
Yeah. Because I'm I'm an only child. Exactly.

467
00:16:09,710 --> 00:16:12,269
And my friends were everything to me and

468
00:16:12,269 --> 00:16:13,570
I wanted my friends

469
00:16:14,029 --> 00:16:15,090
to like him.

470
00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:17,434
It was a really big deal.

471
00:16:18,615 --> 00:16:20,875
One thing I haven't is that's, like, conspicuously

472
00:16:21,254 --> 00:16:21,754
absent

473
00:16:22,214 --> 00:16:24,375
is I haven't heard, like, you wanted a

474
00:16:24,375 --> 00:16:25,595
smoking hot boyfriend.

475
00:16:26,589 --> 00:16:28,350
That's interesting. I'm just thinking of it from

476
00:16:28,350 --> 00:16:30,429
the guy perspective. I wanted to be attracted

477
00:16:30,429 --> 00:16:33,070
to him. He's not my type. That's fair.

478
00:16:33,070 --> 00:16:35,149
Yeah. At all. What's that? He was not

479
00:16:35,149 --> 00:16:36,815
my type. Your your partner was not your

480
00:16:36,815 --> 00:16:39,235
type? No. You know? Skinny jeans.

481
00:16:41,535 --> 00:16:42,274
No. You didn't.

482
00:16:42,975 --> 00:16:44,115
That I completely

483
00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:47,949
relate to that and how he showed up

484
00:16:47,949 --> 00:16:48,449
in

485
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:51,069
a non American car and I was a

486
00:16:51,069 --> 00:16:52,370
super American muscle

487
00:16:53,309 --> 00:16:55,524
kinda gal and I just did not

488
00:16:56,384 --> 00:16:57,445
did not envision

489
00:16:57,985 --> 00:16:58,804
that going

490
00:17:00,785 --> 00:17:02,750
well just because that was a big deal

491
00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:04,829
for me. It was my childhood. I grew

492
00:17:04,829 --> 00:17:06,130
up around it and,

493
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:08,664
but yeah. I

494
00:17:10,744 --> 00:17:12,825
mean, he he stole the show though. So

495
00:17:13,785 --> 00:17:14,605
That's cute.

496
00:17:15,144 --> 00:17:17,340
Aw. I'm with you on the American car

497
00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:20,299
thing. I worked for American Steel Company and

498
00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:22,220
Yeah. Had to be an American car. Mhmm.

499
00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:23,519
Yeah. That's interesting.

500
00:17:24,779 --> 00:17:25,180
Cool.

501
00:17:25,714 --> 00:17:27,815
So nobody was looking for Arthur Fonzarelli.

502
00:17:28,994 --> 00:17:30,695
It's a bad reference. Who

503
00:17:31,394 --> 00:17:32,295
is the?

504
00:17:33,875 --> 00:17:36,200
Hey. I don't know. Nick I don't know

505
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,000
Nick Carter. Yeah. Carter? How do you pronounce

506
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,720
that? It's an actual boy boys. Oh, yeah.

507
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:41,220
Oh.

508
00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:44,399
Oh. Well, that Harrison Ford, who says, like,

509
00:17:44,399 --> 00:17:46,085
a high. We are not. A

510
00:17:46,545 --> 00:17:47,845
whole man. My boyfriend.

511
00:17:48,384 --> 00:17:50,305
What's that? Harrison Ford's my boyfriend even though

512
00:17:50,305 --> 00:17:51,525
he's 80?

513
00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:52,884
Way more.

514
00:17:53,659 --> 00:17:55,659
He's older than my parents, so but I

515
00:17:55,659 --> 00:17:57,599
love that man. Yeah. He is 80.

516
00:17:57,980 --> 00:17:58,720
Me too.

517
00:17:59,659 --> 00:18:00,159
Yeah.

518
00:18:00,619 --> 00:18:02,345
Yeah. Okay. So

519
00:18:02,644 --> 00:18:03,865
let's flash forward.

520
00:18:04,244 --> 00:18:06,565
Don't give me the please, don't give me

521
00:18:06,565 --> 00:18:07,065
the

522
00:18:07,525 --> 00:18:08,025
transition

523
00:18:08,805 --> 00:18:10,049
from that to this.

524
00:18:10,429 --> 00:18:11,970
What are your needs now?

525
00:18:12,910 --> 00:18:15,710
Okay? So don't we'll get into it, but

526
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:17,470
don't tell me, oh, here's the story of

527
00:18:17,470 --> 00:18:19,404
how my needs change slowly over the next

528
00:18:19,404 --> 00:18:21,404
20 years. What what are your what are

529
00:18:21,404 --> 00:18:24,065
you looking for now in a partnership? Honesty.

530
00:18:24,525 --> 00:18:27,190
Number 1, hands down. Tell me the truth.

531
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:27,849
I don't

532
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:29,130
care what happened.

533
00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:31,369
Straightforward, own it immediately.

534
00:18:31,670 --> 00:18:33,190
And then if I wanna work through it

535
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:34,924
with you, I'm gonna work through it. Otherwise,

536
00:18:34,924 --> 00:18:37,244
I'm out the door. Like, I don't need

537
00:18:37,244 --> 00:18:40,845
him anymore. That's something I've learned, but I

538
00:18:40,845 --> 00:18:41,345
choose

539
00:18:41,964 --> 00:18:44,830
and it's a daily choice more so than

540
00:18:44,830 --> 00:18:45,890
it ever has been.

541
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:49,250
So honesty and safety.

542
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:52,269
Wow. I wish you weren't so wishy washy.

543
00:18:52,269 --> 00:18:54,944
I wish you were till a second. Wow.

544
00:18:55,164 --> 00:18:56,605
You came out of the block on that.

545
00:18:56,605 --> 00:18:59,424
There's no gross to it. No kidding. Communication.

546
00:19:00,285 --> 00:19:00,785
Mhmm.

547
00:19:01,269 --> 00:19:01,769
Yeah.

548
00:19:02,629 --> 00:19:03,849
I would add stability,

549
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:06,329
like, just knowing

550
00:19:07,109 --> 00:19:08,775
knowing what's coming, I think.

551
00:19:09,734 --> 00:19:11,115
Knowing, like, I know

552
00:19:11,414 --> 00:19:13,414
without a doubt that my husband is going

553
00:19:13,414 --> 00:19:15,654
to unload the dishwasher. He always unloads the

554
00:19:15,654 --> 00:19:16,875
dishwasher. Right?

555
00:19:17,174 --> 00:19:17,769
And that

556
00:19:18,330 --> 00:19:20,830
makes me feel really safe and stable

557
00:19:21,609 --> 00:19:22,109
and

558
00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:24,809
and it's, like, a really important thing to

559
00:19:24,809 --> 00:19:26,330
me and it means a lot to me

560
00:19:26,330 --> 00:19:28,234
that he does that. I wouldn't have never

561
00:19:28,234 --> 00:19:28,734
thought

562
00:19:29,755 --> 00:19:30,255
15,

563
00:19:31,194 --> 00:19:32,575
however many years ago,

564
00:19:32,875 --> 00:19:33,375
that

565
00:19:34,714 --> 00:19:37,740
someone unloading the dishwasher would be, like would

566
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:39,179
make me love my husband more. You know

567
00:19:39,179 --> 00:19:40,859
what I mean? Like, that's a really important

568
00:19:40,859 --> 00:19:41,359
thing.

569
00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:44,375
So can we add to stability consistency?

570
00:19:44,754 --> 00:19:47,494
Mhmm. There's Oh, that's a good one. Yes.

571
00:19:47,954 --> 00:19:48,615
What else?

572
00:19:51,075 --> 00:19:53,039
I need the ability to dream again.

573
00:19:53,819 --> 00:19:54,319
Woah.

574
00:19:55,259 --> 00:19:56,779
Yeah. Let's do it. Keep going. I got

575
00:19:56,779 --> 00:19:57,819
tables, sand

576
00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:00,674
I'm I'm getting emotional. Oh my god.

577
00:20:02,015 --> 00:20:02,674
They got,

578
00:20:03,375 --> 00:20:05,134
you know, every dream I thought I could

579
00:20:05,134 --> 00:20:05,875
have had,

580
00:20:07,295 --> 00:20:08,509
just got tabled

581
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:12,289
Yeah. If not absolutely burned to the ground.

582
00:20:13,710 --> 00:20:16,289
And it would be nice to look forward

583
00:20:16,429 --> 00:20:17,569
to the future and

584
00:20:17,884 --> 00:20:19,984
have some confidence that, you know,

585
00:20:20,285 --> 00:20:21,585
maybe one of these days,

586
00:20:21,964 --> 00:20:24,545
this dream vacation that I've had, you know,

587
00:20:24,845 --> 00:20:26,990
if I wanna say I I've always grandkids

588
00:20:30,809 --> 00:20:31,309
together.

589
00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:36,250
I I haven't even been able to dream

590
00:20:36,250 --> 00:20:37,795
that we having grandkids together.

591
00:20:38,095 --> 00:20:40,174
I I haven't even been able to dream

592
00:20:40,174 --> 00:20:42,595
that we have we will have grandkids together.

593
00:20:42,654 --> 00:20:44,015
She didn't even know if the marriage was

594
00:20:44,015 --> 00:20:46,399
gonna last Yeah. Mhmm. Oh. For your daughter.

595
00:20:46,399 --> 00:20:47,859
Yeah. I could because last

596
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,375
summer, our oldest went to Greece on this,

597
00:20:52,375 --> 00:20:53,035
like, incredible

598
00:20:53,575 --> 00:20:55,994
trip paid for by some her now mother-in-law.

599
00:20:57,335 --> 00:20:57,835
And

600
00:20:58,294 --> 00:20:58,794
when

601
00:20:59,494 --> 00:20:59,890
she

602
00:21:00,529 --> 00:21:02,869
came back, she and her now husband were

603
00:21:03,250 --> 00:21:05,410
showing my husband their pictures and stuff. And

604
00:21:05,410 --> 00:21:07,365
he's like, I wanna I can't, you know,

605
00:21:07,365 --> 00:21:08,565
I wanna go there. I wanna do all

606
00:21:08,565 --> 00:21:10,484
these things with you. And I'm like, how

607
00:21:10,484 --> 00:21:12,724
dare you? For we've been married all this

608
00:21:12,724 --> 00:21:14,325
time and I have wanted to do all

609
00:21:14,325 --> 00:21:15,849
of these things and you didn't even wanna

610
00:21:15,849 --> 00:21:17,450
live to be 60. And now you wanna

611
00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:19,289
go with me to Europe? Like, screw you.

612
00:21:19,289 --> 00:21:20,829
I don't wanna go there with you.

613
00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:23,184
And, you know, because course, it's a dream

614
00:21:23,184 --> 00:21:24,785
vacation. But, yeah, same thing. It's like you

615
00:21:24,785 --> 00:21:25,605
just put

616
00:21:26,304 --> 00:21:28,544
a summon in all my plans and dreams

617
00:21:28,544 --> 00:21:31,044
for all those areas. Whether we whether we

618
00:21:31,460 --> 00:21:33,859
when we retire, we just retire and sit

619
00:21:33,859 --> 00:21:35,779
around our house like a bunch of couple

620
00:21:35,779 --> 00:21:37,539
of old farts. On your rocking chairs. You

621
00:21:37,539 --> 00:21:38,039
know?

622
00:21:38,819 --> 00:21:41,115
But that we're gonna do it together, you

623
00:21:41,115 --> 00:21:43,195
know, and then we can have we're gonna

624
00:21:43,195 --> 00:21:45,914
have a retirement together that there's anything we

625
00:21:45,914 --> 00:21:46,815
can have together.

626
00:21:47,275 --> 00:21:47,775
Yeah.

627
00:21:49,589 --> 00:21:50,089
Wow.

628
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:52,570
That's powerful, Ellie. Thank you.

629
00:21:53,509 --> 00:21:55,430
I like that because, like, a year ago,

630
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:57,430
we were talking in the car one time

631
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:59,974
about, like, down the road and, like, imagining

632
00:21:59,974 --> 00:22:00,474
that

633
00:22:01,255 --> 00:22:03,835
and shortly after, like, I shut down because

634
00:22:04,134 --> 00:22:04,875
the fear

635
00:22:05,575 --> 00:22:08,295
of addiction and everything coming back in. Like,

636
00:22:08,295 --> 00:22:10,609
I was almost mad at myself for dreaming

637
00:22:10,990 --> 00:22:11,730
in that dream. Mhmm.

638
00:22:12,750 --> 00:22:15,089
It's like I had to shut it down,

639
00:22:15,549 --> 00:22:17,070
and we were in, you know, we were

640
00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:19,105
in a crisis then for so many years

641
00:22:19,184 --> 00:22:19,684
there.

642
00:22:19,984 --> 00:22:22,724
Oh, it was just and not even necessarily

643
00:22:22,865 --> 00:22:24,944
related to addiction, but it was just crisis

644
00:22:24,944 --> 00:22:27,505
after crisis after crisis after crisis, and I

645
00:22:27,505 --> 00:22:29,069
just got to the point, like, I couldn't

646
00:22:29,069 --> 00:22:31,309
even think about next week. It's just what

647
00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:32,769
do I have to do to get through

648
00:22:33,069 --> 00:22:35,230
today and tomorrow? And I know that's actually

649
00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:37,069
how you deal with addiction. Just get through

650
00:22:37,069 --> 00:22:38,815
today, you know, the next minute, the next

651
00:22:38,815 --> 00:22:40,994
day, the one day at a time, but

652
00:22:41,934 --> 00:22:43,615
it's it always seemed to me like one

653
00:22:43,615 --> 00:22:44,975
day at a time, well, I've gotta have

654
00:22:44,975 --> 00:22:48,923
some hopes Mhmm. You know, out there. And

655
00:22:48,923 --> 00:22:52,122
I just had to I couldn't afford to

656
00:22:52,122 --> 00:22:54,964
to have them anymore. Kristen, you brought kids

657
00:22:55,044 --> 00:22:55,944
into the conversation,

658
00:22:56,804 --> 00:22:58,644
so I'm gonna come back to you and

659
00:22:58,644 --> 00:22:59,144
ask.

660
00:23:01,284 --> 00:23:01,605
Are

661
00:23:02,164 --> 00:23:04,079
when you think about your needs today, is

662
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:05,680
there a need because your kids are a

663
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,960
little younger than some of the other kids

664
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,559
not everybody, but a little younger than some

665
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:10,734
of the other people's kids around this table.

666
00:23:10,815 --> 00:23:12,894
Is there a need for a partner to

667
00:23:12,894 --> 00:23:13,875
share in the responsibility

668
00:23:14,575 --> 00:23:15,634
Yeah. In the upbringing?

669
00:23:16,414 --> 00:23:17,750
Yeah. Yeah. I,

670
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:21,369
I get pretty resentful sometimes,

671
00:23:23,109 --> 00:23:24,009
just because

672
00:23:25,269 --> 00:23:26,974
and it's not even that I

673
00:23:27,275 --> 00:23:29,134
mind, like, carrying the load,

674
00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:30,734
but

675
00:23:31,115 --> 00:23:33,134
I feel like I'm not appreciated.

676
00:23:34,394 --> 00:23:36,399
And that's just kind of a given, and

677
00:23:36,399 --> 00:23:37,139
he doesn't

678
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:37,940
acknowledge

679
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,099
all that I'm doing.

680
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:43,299
He's in recovery, but he's still very,

681
00:23:44,035 --> 00:23:45,875
kind of parallel lives still, so kind of

682
00:23:45,875 --> 00:23:46,855
in his own world.

683
00:23:47,315 --> 00:23:47,794
And,

684
00:23:48,674 --> 00:23:50,115
and I think he's trying to be a

685
00:23:50,115 --> 00:23:52,500
better I do see him trying to a

686
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:54,259
better father, and he and he is, and

687
00:23:54,259 --> 00:23:56,579
our kids adore him. And so I like

688
00:23:56,579 --> 00:23:58,200
that he's showing up for that.

689
00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:00,680
But,

690
00:24:01,674 --> 00:24:02,494
yeah, just

691
00:24:02,875 --> 00:24:04,875
I still do all of it, and so

692
00:24:04,875 --> 00:24:05,914
I just wish that,

693
00:24:06,714 --> 00:24:08,634
he would see that or just be able

694
00:24:08,634 --> 00:24:10,474
to step in a little bit that it

695
00:24:10,474 --> 00:24:12,460
wouldn't be so hard for him to step

696
00:24:12,460 --> 00:24:13,679
in to do it.

697
00:24:14,779 --> 00:24:16,079
So hopefully, someday.

698
00:24:16,539 --> 00:24:17,039
Yeah.

699
00:24:18,220 --> 00:24:19,839
Lauren, your partner is

700
00:24:20,380 --> 00:24:22,684
man in the household while you're here and

701
00:24:22,684 --> 00:24:24,365
with the kids and doing the kids stuff

702
00:24:24,365 --> 00:24:26,144
and kid decisions and all of that.

703
00:24:26,525 --> 00:24:27,965
Is that a relief? Because there was a

704
00:24:27,965 --> 00:24:29,659
time when you didn't feel

705
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:31,419
comfortable leaving it in that situation.

706
00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:32,940
I think so

707
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,640
because I was even nervous to the night

708
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,399
before. Like, I was crying the night before

709
00:24:37,399 --> 00:24:39,224
coming because I was like, I don't wanna

710
00:24:39,224 --> 00:24:40,365
go. I don't wanna go.

711
00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:44,125
And something Were you like, Matt thinks Fonzie's

712
00:24:44,184 --> 00:24:45,004
cool. Wow.

713
00:24:45,345 --> 00:24:45,845
I

714
00:24:46,184 --> 00:24:47,784
don't know. God, this is gonna be terrible.

715
00:24:47,784 --> 00:24:49,549
She doesn't even know who Fonzie is.

716
00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:52,410
I can't picture him in my head, but

717
00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:54,110
I know that he is. Hey.

718
00:24:55,769 --> 00:24:58,075
Because for his whole life, our whole marriage,

719
00:24:58,134 --> 00:25:01,255
he's in the military. So he's gone. And

720
00:25:01,255 --> 00:25:02,715
I do everything because

721
00:25:03,494 --> 00:25:05,579
he's gone. And even when he's there, like,

722
00:25:05,579 --> 00:25:07,019
I know the things so I can do

723
00:25:07,019 --> 00:25:08,700
them better. And I know the way they're

724
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:09,659
supposed to be done. I know what the

725
00:25:09,659 --> 00:25:10,399
kids like.

726
00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:14,684
And so leaving, like, I've never left the

727
00:25:14,845 --> 00:25:16,384
kids for more than

728
00:25:16,765 --> 00:25:18,384
a night maybe, really.

729
00:25:19,245 --> 00:25:20,225
So I think

730
00:25:21,005 --> 00:25:22,545
as soon as I got to the house

731
00:25:23,005 --> 00:25:24,830
and maybe even in the car and then

732
00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:25,570
I was like,

733
00:25:26,590 --> 00:25:28,109
okay. One of the things for him, I

734
00:25:28,109 --> 00:25:30,750
thought like security was something I always wanted

735
00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:32,289
but like listening to things.

736
00:25:32,670 --> 00:25:33,950
And I don't know the word for it

737
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:35,394
but like I just want,

738
00:25:35,855 --> 00:25:36,355
like,

739
00:25:37,055 --> 00:25:39,535
like, a piece. Like, just because we've always

740
00:25:39,535 --> 00:25:42,099
been go go go. He's deployed and he's

741
00:25:42,099 --> 00:25:44,099
done this and we start kids young and

742
00:25:44,099 --> 00:25:45,559
everything's been so fast.

743
00:25:46,259 --> 00:25:48,519
And he's naturally like a very, like, motivated

744
00:25:48,579 --> 00:25:49,079
person.

745
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:50,359
Good or bad.

746
00:25:52,075 --> 00:25:53,835
That, like, I want somebody who just can

747
00:25:53,835 --> 00:25:56,634
be like, it's okay. Like, if I'm freaking

748
00:25:56,634 --> 00:25:58,714
out to not have somebody also, like, hype

749
00:25:58,714 --> 00:25:59,240
me up because

750
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:00,519
I don't need a hype man. My head's

751
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:01,500
already doing it.

752
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,480
And so, like, I want someone to just

753
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,640
be like, alright. It's fine. Like, we're fine.

754
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,400
Like, the kids are fine. They're at home.

755
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,140
They're fine.

756
00:26:08,679 --> 00:26:09,224
They're doing

757
00:26:10,025 --> 00:26:10,605
great. Everybody's,

758
00:26:11,625 --> 00:26:14,345
like, not just alive, but they're thriving. They're

759
00:26:14,345 --> 00:26:16,684
they're getting froyo and doing all the things.

760
00:26:17,069 --> 00:26:19,470
He's had birthday parties and church to go

761
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:20,690
to and stuff. So

762
00:26:21,069 --> 00:26:21,730
I think

763
00:26:22,109 --> 00:26:23,950
leaving here, I I do feel like, I'm

764
00:26:23,950 --> 00:26:25,009
really happy I came

765
00:26:25,524 --> 00:26:27,204
because I feel I think it's was a

766
00:26:27,204 --> 00:26:29,625
good idea. So thank you everybody who convinced

767
00:26:29,684 --> 00:26:31,544
me on Facebook to come.

768
00:26:32,085 --> 00:26:33,524
I don't know if I answered your question.

769
00:26:33,524 --> 00:26:35,339
You did. You actually added I think you

770
00:26:35,339 --> 00:26:37,839
added something besides kids. What I heard

771
00:26:38,299 --> 00:26:38,799
was

772
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:41,154
that you have a desire for I mean,

773
00:26:41,234 --> 00:26:42,914
after all of you, after you've been through

774
00:26:42,914 --> 00:26:46,375
the trauma and chaos of living with addiction,

775
00:26:47,075 --> 00:26:49,930
you wanted a sense of peacefulness. I guess

776
00:26:49,930 --> 00:26:51,789
I'm choosing a word that you didn't use,

777
00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:53,609
but you and you kinda want him to

778
00:26:53,609 --> 00:26:54,830
be part of delivering.

779
00:26:55,210 --> 00:26:56,830
That you want him to make you

780
00:26:57,369 --> 00:26:59,914
feel like the peace is real real and

781
00:27:00,154 --> 00:27:02,075
Yeah. Or at least not be the cause

782
00:27:02,075 --> 00:27:03,835
of the stress. Yeah. I think those are

783
00:27:03,835 --> 00:27:06,220
two different things, but they're related and important.

784
00:27:06,299 --> 00:27:08,299
I can find my own peace Yeah. If

785
00:27:08,299 --> 00:27:09,900
he's causing the stress, but then he has

786
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:10,799
to get out the picture.

787
00:27:11,099 --> 00:27:12,880
Lately, he's been peaceful, but

788
00:27:13,579 --> 00:27:14,559
definitely not

789
00:27:14,859 --> 00:27:17,275
be the agitator like he was. Well and

790
00:27:17,275 --> 00:27:18,954
I kind of when you were talking, Lauren,

791
00:27:18,954 --> 00:27:20,714
the word that kinda kept him came to

792
00:27:20,714 --> 00:27:21,214
mind

793
00:27:21,515 --> 00:27:23,535
for me was, like, a sense of contentment

794
00:27:23,755 --> 00:27:25,500
because Matt was always go go go. He

795
00:27:25,579 --> 00:27:27,099
never seemed happy with what we were doing.

796
00:27:27,099 --> 00:27:28,539
There always need to be more of this

797
00:27:28,539 --> 00:27:29,440
or more of that

798
00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:31,500
and and moving trying to figure out the

799
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:33,765
new scheme and how we're gonna do this

800
00:27:33,825 --> 00:27:35,345
and you know it was just like he

801
00:27:35,345 --> 00:27:38,484
was constantly chasing after something that was never

802
00:27:39,105 --> 00:27:40,759
gonna be enough and that's kinda how I

803
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:41,880
felt. It was, like, it's never gonna be

804
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,820
enough. It's never gonna be enough. So having

805
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:45,900
its peace, but there is, like, a contentment

806
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,805
and calmness in your day to day lives

807
00:27:47,884 --> 00:27:49,805
to say, I am happy where I am

808
00:27:49,805 --> 00:27:51,644
and being present. I think that's, like, the

809
00:27:51,644 --> 00:27:52,545
perfect word,

810
00:27:52,924 --> 00:27:55,244
actually. Contentment? Yeah. That's my word. Thank you,

811
00:27:55,244 --> 00:27:56,305
Jerry. Okay. Welcome.

812
00:27:56,605 --> 00:27:59,559
Wrote it down. That's good. That's great. This

813
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:01,000
is all gonna go into the show notes

814
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,839
at the beginning. Writing that paragraph is hard

815
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:03,799
for me and you guys are doing it

816
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:06,140
for me, so thank you. That's great.

817
00:28:07,184 --> 00:28:08,244
Nikki, you

818
00:28:09,505 --> 00:28:12,705
you have, a daughter, a beautiful daughter, an

819
00:28:12,705 --> 00:28:15,345
active, eager, excited daughter, and you shared with

820
00:28:15,345 --> 00:28:15,779
us that

821
00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:18,279
you like the fact that

822
00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:19,400
she wants

823
00:28:19,859 --> 00:28:22,019
you and your husband to both like, she's

824
00:28:22,099 --> 00:28:23,859
you know, where's dad? Is he gonna is

825
00:28:23,859 --> 00:28:25,380
he gonna go on this bike ride? Bike

826
00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:26,744
riding is big for you guys right now.

827
00:28:26,744 --> 00:28:27,944
Is he gonna go on this bike ride

828
00:28:27,944 --> 00:28:30,365
with us? Does that what is that

829
00:28:30,825 --> 00:28:33,289
when we talk about your needs being met,

830
00:28:34,009 --> 00:28:35,369
and we know what a great mom you

831
00:28:35,369 --> 00:28:37,710
are and how important parenthood is to you,

832
00:28:38,090 --> 00:28:40,250
does that give you kind of a warm

833
00:28:40,250 --> 00:28:42,990
fuzzy to see your daughter caring whether your

834
00:28:43,115 --> 00:28:45,215
husband is participating in things or not?

835
00:28:47,195 --> 00:28:49,455
Yeah. Because that was never the case,

836
00:28:50,634 --> 00:28:51,134
before.

837
00:28:52,075 --> 00:28:52,990
She never really

838
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:54,609
when he was

839
00:28:55,470 --> 00:28:57,009
drinking and even

840
00:28:57,549 --> 00:28:59,309
I mean, we didn't know he was drinking,

841
00:28:59,309 --> 00:29:01,934
but the tension was there and there was

842
00:29:01,934 --> 00:29:03,794
clearly issues going on. But

843
00:29:04,575 --> 00:29:06,575
that I mean, she didn't even used to

844
00:29:06,575 --> 00:29:08,339
welcome him at the door when he came

845
00:29:08,339 --> 00:29:10,579
home. I mean, that was never a thing.

846
00:29:10,579 --> 00:29:12,839
And for her to go from that extreme

847
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:13,400
to,

848
00:29:14,019 --> 00:29:16,634
is dad home tonight? Like, you know, like,

849
00:29:16,634 --> 00:29:19,214
excited to spend time with him and

850
00:29:21,355 --> 00:29:23,674
now we're biking as a family and it's

851
00:29:23,674 --> 00:29:25,900
almost like she doesn't even need to ask

852
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:28,480
me if we're going. Like, she's more concerned

853
00:29:28,539 --> 00:29:30,859
about whether he's going because I can do

854
00:29:30,859 --> 00:29:32,619
it with her all the time because I'm

855
00:29:32,619 --> 00:29:34,460
home with her. So, like, we can go

856
00:29:34,460 --> 00:29:37,494
out whenever we want, but she's very much

857
00:29:38,835 --> 00:29:39,335
included

858
00:29:39,795 --> 00:29:41,414
including to him now.

859
00:29:41,875 --> 00:29:43,589
And that definitely warms

860
00:29:44,369 --> 00:29:46,869
and makes me feel good. That's great.

861
00:29:47,250 --> 00:29:48,069
That's great.

862
00:29:48,609 --> 00:29:49,109
Melanie,

863
00:29:49,970 --> 00:29:51,509
your husband passed away.

864
00:29:52,134 --> 00:29:55,195
He died from this horrific disease of alcoholism.

865
00:29:55,894 --> 00:29:58,955
You very bravely and boldly shared your story

866
00:29:59,174 --> 00:30:00,319
with us on the intoxicated

867
00:30:00,619 --> 00:30:03,179
podcast just a few episodes ago. And so,

868
00:30:03,179 --> 00:30:05,500
listener, if you haven't heard that, we recommend

869
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:06,940
that you go back and listen to it.

870
00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:07,599
It's important

871
00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:09,575
even if you're still with your partner. I

872
00:30:09,575 --> 00:30:11,894
mean, the messages, the themes are super important

873
00:30:11,894 --> 00:30:12,795
from that episode.

874
00:30:13,174 --> 00:30:14,875
But my question to you is,

875
00:30:15,414 --> 00:30:16,394
now that reconciliation

876
00:30:16,695 --> 00:30:18,920
with your partner is not that's not something

877
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,080
that's on the table. So it's not something

878
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,420
that you you would spend time,

879
00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:26,359
other than mourning that. I mean, the mourning

880
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:28,654
process is important, but it's not something that

881
00:30:28,654 --> 00:30:31,134
you are actively working on or pursuing. One

882
00:30:31,134 --> 00:30:32,515
of the things that you've shared,

883
00:30:33,214 --> 00:30:34,974
and you've gotten some chuckles from us, so

884
00:30:34,974 --> 00:30:37,054
we appreciate it when you've shared that you're

885
00:30:37,054 --> 00:30:39,919
just gonna keep collecting dogs. Like, let's just

886
00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:42,079
add to the dog. That's the plan. Mhmm.

887
00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:43,759
And I know that Sounds great. I know

888
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:46,099
I know that it gets little chuckles, but

889
00:30:46,319 --> 00:30:47,664
I think there's some truth

890
00:30:48,125 --> 00:30:49,105
to it too. Like,

891
00:30:51,164 --> 00:30:53,085
do you it doesn't sound to me like

892
00:30:53,085 --> 00:30:56,440
you have a need for another romantic partner

893
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,200
necessarily in your life. Can you talk about

894
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,119
that a little bit? Yeah. That's not something

895
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:01,019
that I,

896
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:02,779
feel the need to have,

897
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,545
or I'm looking for, or

898
00:31:06,825 --> 00:31:08,045
want the trouble

899
00:31:09,225 --> 00:31:09,725
of

900
00:31:10,105 --> 00:31:10,924
trying to,

901
00:31:12,025 --> 00:31:12,684
I guess,

902
00:31:13,202 --> 00:31:15,259
you you know, dating at my age doesn't

903
00:31:15,259 --> 00:31:17,179
seem it have any appeal to me at

904
00:31:17,179 --> 00:31:17,679
all.

905
00:31:19,259 --> 00:31:20,079
And because

906
00:31:21,579 --> 00:31:21,855
it

907
00:31:23,535 --> 00:31:24,974
was, I was with my husband for a

908
00:31:24,974 --> 00:31:27,234
long time before anything was a problem. So

909
00:31:27,775 --> 00:31:29,615
how am I supposed to trust that the

910
00:31:29,615 --> 00:31:30,460
same thing won't

911
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:33,659
happen down the road with whoever new partner

912
00:31:33,659 --> 00:31:34,960
that I might have?

913
00:31:36,299 --> 00:31:38,220
So, yeah, it's not I don't I don't

914
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:39,984
feel like I feel like I can meet

915
00:31:39,984 --> 00:31:42,244
my own needs now, and that started

916
00:31:43,345 --> 00:31:45,480
long before he was gone too that I

917
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:48,700
had to become more and more self sufficient

918
00:31:48,919 --> 00:31:49,419
because

919
00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:52,039
he wasn't taking care of my needs at

920
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:55,079
that point. So, yeah, I kinda got used

921
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:57,065
to just doing it myself. I don't know

922
00:31:57,065 --> 00:31:58,924
if I answered your question. You did. So

923
00:31:59,065 --> 00:32:00,904
that was almost we talk a lot about

924
00:32:00,904 --> 00:32:02,825
detachment. Mhmm. And one of the things that

925
00:32:02,825 --> 00:32:03,890
Sherry and I have come

926
00:32:04,450 --> 00:32:06,470
to really understand, I'd say, in the last

927
00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:08,450
maybe 6 months more than we ever did

928
00:32:08,450 --> 00:32:09,269
before was,

929
00:32:09,970 --> 00:32:12,184
detachment isn't a tactic that you read about

930
00:32:12,184 --> 00:32:13,465
in a book and then you go and

931
00:32:13,465 --> 00:32:15,484
you try to employ it. Detachment

932
00:32:16,505 --> 00:32:17,005
is

933
00:32:17,465 --> 00:32:19,869
a state that you reach. It's a result

934
00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:23,150
of the chaos and the trauma that you've

935
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:23,650
experienced.

936
00:32:24,269 --> 00:32:27,309
So you reached a point where you recognized

937
00:32:27,309 --> 00:32:29,585
in your relationship when he was still here

938
00:32:29,585 --> 00:32:31,664
with us that you had to do all

939
00:32:31,664 --> 00:32:33,684
these things for yourself. And so

940
00:32:34,065 --> 00:32:35,684
it's not like you just said,

941
00:32:36,065 --> 00:32:38,804
you know, I'm a I'm a 20

942
00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:41,409
24 woman, and I'm gonna 24 year old

943
00:32:41,409 --> 00:32:44,390
woman. 2024. The year. 2024. Okay.

944
00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:47,569
Sorry. I just wanna You're showing me 20

945
00:32:47,569 --> 00:32:48,765
and 24 years old.

946
00:32:49,305 --> 00:32:51,305
I'm just clarifying. I'm setting the scene in

947
00:32:51,305 --> 00:32:51,964
my mind.

948
00:32:52,265 --> 00:32:53,984
Yeah. No. But yeah. You're You all looked

949
00:32:53,984 --> 00:32:55,565
at me funny when I said something.

950
00:32:56,664 --> 00:32:58,750
But I don't. Right.

951
00:32:59,049 --> 00:33:00,269
Right. But so,

952
00:33:01,369 --> 00:33:03,850
that's a great example of how your needs

953
00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:04,350
changed.

954
00:33:04,694 --> 00:33:07,095
The things that you had previously hoped to

955
00:33:07,095 --> 00:33:08,875
be able to rely on a partner

956
00:33:09,734 --> 00:33:11,575
to take care of or to be a

957
00:33:11,575 --> 00:33:14,130
part of, you no longer needed that. It

958
00:33:14,130 --> 00:33:15,570
doesn't sound like you have any interest in

959
00:33:15,570 --> 00:33:18,369
going back to that almost neediness. No. Well,

960
00:33:18,369 --> 00:33:20,555
but but it wasn't like kinda like Ally

961
00:33:20,555 --> 00:33:22,255
said, I had to give up those

962
00:33:23,595 --> 00:33:25,134
dreams and hopes of,

963
00:33:25,835 --> 00:33:28,315
you know, even simple things like being, you

964
00:33:28,315 --> 00:33:29,990
know, 80 80 years old and walking down

965
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:32,369
the street holding hands. I mean, that was

966
00:33:33,069 --> 00:33:34,909
we we've all seen those little old couples.

967
00:33:34,909 --> 00:33:37,765
Right? Yeah. And the the promise of that

968
00:33:37,765 --> 00:33:38,265
was

969
00:33:38,724 --> 00:33:40,805
gone long before. So it wasn't like I

970
00:33:40,805 --> 00:33:41,305
chose

971
00:33:42,565 --> 00:33:44,904
to not need him, but, you know,

972
00:33:45,605 --> 00:33:46,700
the my kids

973
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:50,220
are grown. I'm not looking for anybody to

974
00:33:50,220 --> 00:33:51,359
help me with that.

975
00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:53,259
Yeah. I don't need it. I just don't

976
00:33:53,259 --> 00:33:54,000
need it.

977
00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:55,974
I think one of the really important things

978
00:33:55,974 --> 00:33:57,174
that you pointed out, and I wonder if

979
00:33:57,174 --> 00:33:59,035
anyone else would like to respond to this,

980
00:33:59,575 --> 00:34:01,755
you it's almost like a risk reward

981
00:34:02,134 --> 00:34:03,309
when you think about the potential

982
00:34:09,309 --> 00:34:11,410
progression of I mean, that's the

983
00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:14,114
di progression

984
00:34:14,494 --> 00:34:17,054
of I mean, that's the diabolical part of

985
00:34:17,135 --> 00:34:19,375
about alcoholism. You can meet someone that's perfectly

986
00:34:19,375 --> 00:34:20,194
normal and

987
00:34:20,630 --> 00:34:21,130
and,

988
00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:23,610
you know, got all their senses about

989
00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:26,150
them and and seem like the perfect partner.

990
00:34:26,150 --> 00:34:28,394
But then you never know if the slippery

991
00:34:28,394 --> 00:34:29,914
slope is gonna get that person too. And

992
00:34:29,914 --> 00:34:31,135
it's just not worth the risk.

993
00:34:31,675 --> 00:34:33,054
Right. That's super important.

994
00:34:33,594 --> 00:34:35,914
Yep. Does anyone else even though, you know,

995
00:34:35,914 --> 00:34:37,429
even you're still with your partner, do you

996
00:34:37,429 --> 00:34:38,650
relate to that kind

997
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:41,909
of emotional sentiment, that that feeling of,

998
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:44,684
I don't know if it's worth putting the

999
00:34:44,684 --> 00:34:45,184
trust,

1000
00:34:45,485 --> 00:34:47,164
you know, trying to rebuild the trust, try

1001
00:34:47,164 --> 00:34:49,485
to try to get back there with

1002
00:34:49,885 --> 00:34:51,724
Or would you ever trust anyone again? I

1003
00:34:51,724 --> 00:34:53,164
know, like, there were times when I would

1004
00:34:53,164 --> 00:34:54,010
think about our marriage

1005
00:34:54,570 --> 00:34:56,409
marriage ending, and I'm like, no. I'm not

1006
00:34:56,409 --> 00:34:58,030
gonna take that chance. I mean,

1007
00:34:58,329 --> 00:35:00,750
we joke and we say you can't, like,

1008
00:35:01,130 --> 00:35:03,025
throw a rock without hitting an alcoholic or

1009
00:35:03,025 --> 00:35:05,184
someone who has an addiction. So why would

1010
00:35:05,184 --> 00:35:06,485
I put myself out there

1011
00:35:06,864 --> 00:35:09,525
with this ocean of potential partners

1012
00:35:10,019 --> 00:35:12,119
where there is some sort of addiction,

1013
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:16,179
you know, whether it's alcohol or, you know,

1014
00:35:16,179 --> 00:35:18,714
gaming or gambling or porn, I'm like, I

1015
00:35:18,714 --> 00:35:21,275
would it wouldn't seem like the reward would

1016
00:35:21,275 --> 00:35:23,514
be worth the risk. Yeah. I'm also a

1017
00:35:23,514 --> 00:35:26,210
great pessimist, so and I would just have,

1018
00:35:26,449 --> 00:35:29,190
like, all kinds of animals, not just cats.

1019
00:35:29,889 --> 00:35:31,589
That's good. There's a good variety.

1020
00:35:32,210 --> 00:35:33,730
So, I mean, for me, I'm like, no

1021
00:35:33,730 --> 00:35:36,235
way. You know? And even at 49 years

1022
00:35:36,235 --> 00:35:38,074
of age, I'm like, no. I'd rather be

1023
00:35:38,074 --> 00:35:40,235
alone at this point and with Yeah. People

1024
00:35:40,235 --> 00:35:42,635
that I really feel comfortable with. Because we'll

1025
00:35:42,635 --> 00:35:44,394
carry our trust issues with us. It doesn't

1026
00:35:44,394 --> 00:35:46,059
matter who the person is or who the

1027
00:35:46,059 --> 00:35:49,180
partner is. Mhmm. Even if it's not her

1028
00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:50,000
current spouse.

1029
00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:51,200
Yeah.

1030
00:35:51,980 --> 00:35:53,579
And that's why I think it was so

1031
00:35:53,579 --> 00:35:54,800
important for me to,

1032
00:35:55,264 --> 00:35:55,764
like,

1033
00:35:56,784 --> 00:35:58,804
get, you know, in touch with a counselor.

1034
00:35:59,664 --> 00:36:02,065
1, we were realizing that even though the

1035
00:36:02,065 --> 00:36:03,780
alcohol was gone and we were

1036
00:36:04,579 --> 00:36:06,360
not in any sort of therapy

1037
00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:07,320
together,

1038
00:36:07,619 --> 00:36:10,039
I needed to work on some things. So

1039
00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:10,760
maybe,

1040
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:12,760
you know, maybe

1041
00:36:13,219 --> 00:36:15,605
I would look at it now that the

1042
00:36:15,605 --> 00:36:17,304
reward would be worth the risk

1043
00:36:17,924 --> 00:36:20,005
after working on myself, but at the time,

1044
00:36:20,005 --> 00:36:22,030
no way would I think of that.

1045
00:36:22,650 --> 00:36:24,329
That might be something that would be, like,

1046
00:36:24,329 --> 00:36:25,930
hopefully, it never happens, but I think it'd

1047
00:36:25,930 --> 00:36:27,550
be a long time down the road.

1048
00:36:27,930 --> 00:36:29,675
Yeah. A long time down the road. You

1049
00:36:29,675 --> 00:36:31,114
have to have a lot of memories to

1050
00:36:31,114 --> 00:36:31,614
forget.

1051
00:36:33,675 --> 00:36:35,295
Hey. So I still didn't hear,

1052
00:36:36,315 --> 00:36:38,880
smoking hot partner as on the needs

1053
00:36:39,339 --> 00:36:41,500
list. I mean, maybe for, you know, a

1054
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:44,559
fling, but Yeah. To settle down. You're usually

1055
00:36:44,619 --> 00:36:46,699
dumb guys too. Right? Like, you don't tell

1056
00:36:46,699 --> 00:36:48,844
me to sit right now. They aren't gonna

1057
00:36:48,844 --> 00:36:51,085
be smart and intellectual and I'll try to

1058
00:36:51,085 --> 00:36:53,824
update my references. No Ryan Reynolds. No

1059
00:36:54,284 --> 00:36:56,315
the guy in Twisters. What's his name? Ryan

1060
00:36:56,789 --> 00:36:59,064
Reynolds. So I know him. Yeah. I know

1061
00:36:59,064 --> 00:37:01,449
him. Such a big exception. Yeah. Yeah.

1062
00:37:02,949 --> 00:37:05,535
Glenn Kyle. Yes. Ryan Reynolds is a gorgeous

1063
00:37:05,535 --> 00:37:06,035
human.

1064
00:37:06,335 --> 00:37:09,075
Tom Brady is beautiful, very smart, also.

1065
00:37:09,454 --> 00:37:11,235
Daniel Reeves. There we go.

1066
00:37:11,615 --> 00:37:13,989
Yes. But I'm gonna I'm gonna say, like,

1067
00:37:14,610 --> 00:37:17,329
when thinking about, like, attractiveness or being attracted

1068
00:37:17,329 --> 00:37:17,989
to someone,

1069
00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:20,130
you get to know them and they become

1070
00:37:20,130 --> 00:37:22,675
more attractive. Right? Yeah. That's true. I knew

1071
00:37:22,675 --> 00:37:23,734
my husband

1072
00:37:24,514 --> 00:37:25,014
for

1073
00:37:25,554 --> 00:37:26,934
a couple years before

1074
00:37:27,474 --> 00:37:28,934
we started dating

1075
00:37:29,394 --> 00:37:29,894
and

1076
00:37:30,195 --> 00:37:32,010
I didn't think he was unattractive. I just

1077
00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:33,929
didn't think anything of him. Like I just

1078
00:37:33,929 --> 00:37:35,070
thought he was the guy

1079
00:37:35,449 --> 00:37:36,969
that I knew, just the guy I worked

1080
00:37:36,969 --> 00:37:39,710
with and that's it you know. I didn't,

1081
00:37:39,929 --> 00:37:40,338
that was it, period, that's the end of

1082
00:37:40,338 --> 00:37:40,456
the sentence. And so but then once I

1083
00:37:40,456 --> 00:37:40,772
got to know him I was like oh

1084
00:37:40,772 --> 00:37:42,275
if period. That's the end of the sentence.

1085
00:37:42,494 --> 00:37:43,934
And so but then once I got to

1086
00:37:43,934 --> 00:37:45,215
know him, I was like, oh, he is

1087
00:37:45,215 --> 00:37:47,954
really attractive and, you know, that is, like,

1088
00:37:48,094 --> 00:37:50,195
something that And there has to be chemistry,

1089
00:37:50,255 --> 00:37:51,759
like Right. I mean, like, all these people

1090
00:37:51,759 --> 00:37:53,679
were listing, you know, you could be this

1091
00:37:53,679 --> 00:37:55,279
close to them and you're like, like, I

1092
00:37:55,279 --> 00:37:57,519
feel nothing for I mean, you're you're beautiful

1093
00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,440
to look at, but go away. Kanye doesn't

1094
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:00,594
want deodorant. I heard

1095
00:38:01,795 --> 00:38:03,494
He's got some weird little

1096
00:38:04,195 --> 00:38:05,094
I agree with

1097
00:38:05,394 --> 00:38:08,114
you because, like, when my husband was sober

1098
00:38:08,114 --> 00:38:10,949
for that dry, drunk year ish time frame,

1099
00:38:11,809 --> 00:38:14,289
like, I was so attracted to him for

1100
00:38:14,289 --> 00:38:15,889
that time frame. Like, I just loved him

1101
00:38:15,889 --> 00:38:16,469
so much.

1102
00:38:16,769 --> 00:38:17,269
And

1103
00:38:17,570 --> 00:38:18,434
before he relapsed.

1104
00:38:25,875 --> 00:38:27,400
I think, like, what you need and the

1105
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,719
more they're supplying that, the more attracted you

1106
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:30,699
are to them sometimes.

1107
00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:32,859
And then vice versa,

1108
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,815
when they're are deep in the drinking and

1109
00:38:35,815 --> 00:38:36,315
deep

1110
00:38:36,934 --> 00:38:37,514
in whatever

1111
00:38:37,974 --> 00:38:40,074
is happening even though you can recognize

1112
00:38:40,694 --> 00:38:42,750
that it's the alcohol and it's not the

1113
00:38:42,750 --> 00:38:44,210
person, you can

1114
00:38:44,590 --> 00:38:47,150
become not attracted to them for that time

1115
00:38:47,150 --> 00:38:50,215
too. Oh, I was definitely attracted to my

1116
00:38:50,295 --> 00:38:52,295
husband when he drank. You were attracted to

1117
00:38:52,295 --> 00:38:53,035
it? Uh-huh.

1118
00:38:53,735 --> 00:38:55,275
Because it brought out his

1119
00:38:56,135 --> 00:38:57,114
social butterfly

1120
00:38:57,494 --> 00:38:59,659
and, like, it changed his personality.

1121
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:01,960
But were you once you knew it was

1122
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:02,539
a problem?

1123
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,800
Of course not. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I'm just

1124
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:06,940
saying that I can,

1125
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,554
you know Yeah. Shit. Served as a social

1126
00:39:09,614 --> 00:39:13,315
lubricant Yeah. In your particular case was cultural.

1127
00:39:13,535 --> 00:39:15,695
He might do. He always hated it when

1128
00:39:15,695 --> 00:39:17,135
he drank. Like, I mean, that was our

1129
00:39:17,135 --> 00:39:18,849
biggest fight for until I knew he was

1130
00:39:18,849 --> 00:39:20,710
an alcoholic for 20 plus years.

1131
00:39:21,410 --> 00:39:23,090
It would be a fight of me, like,

1132
00:39:23,090 --> 00:39:24,390
can you just, like,

1133
00:39:24,930 --> 00:39:26,050
at the end of the yeah. Can you

1134
00:39:26,050 --> 00:39:27,605
just lay off? Like, you don't need to

1135
00:39:27,764 --> 00:39:29,844
constantly be refilling your glass. And I had

1136
00:39:29,925 --> 00:39:31,445
I mean, I had no idea. There's so

1137
00:39:31,445 --> 00:39:33,144
many you know, looking back, there's so

1138
00:39:33,525 --> 00:39:35,065
many things. There's just, like,

1139
00:39:35,844 --> 00:39:37,679
my bulb, you know, it all goes off.

1140
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:40,300
But but I was never ever attracted to

1141
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:41,440
any drink. Never.

1142
00:39:42,539 --> 00:39:44,079
Lauren, you talked about how

1143
00:39:44,619 --> 00:39:45,864
he when he was in his

1144
00:39:46,905 --> 00:39:48,525
his sober period between,

1145
00:39:49,784 --> 00:39:52,344
you know, before his relapse and now back

1146
00:39:52,344 --> 00:39:52,844
into

1147
00:39:53,224 --> 00:39:54,925
long term sobriety and recovery,

1148
00:39:55,625 --> 00:39:57,530
during during that period before the relapse that

1149
00:39:57,530 --> 00:39:59,930
you were attracted to them. After the relapse,

1150
00:39:59,930 --> 00:40:02,110
does it make it hard harder for you

1151
00:40:02,570 --> 00:40:03,450
to trust and find find that attraction or

1152
00:40:03,450 --> 00:40:03,950
that,

1153
00:40:13,809 --> 00:40:15,890
I can't wait to hear what you're gonna

1154
00:40:15,890 --> 00:40:16,789
say. Yes.

1155
00:40:18,210 --> 00:40:19,670
Yes. It has been

1156
00:40:20,210 --> 00:40:22,154
very hard. I think think it took I

1157
00:40:22,154 --> 00:40:23,275
think I said the other day, it took

1158
00:40:23,275 --> 00:40:25,934
until, like, this year to really like him.

1159
00:40:26,554 --> 00:40:28,394
And really be like, okay. I like being

1160
00:40:28,394 --> 00:40:30,335
around you. Or to feel like

1161
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,000
like I I I missed his company or

1162
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:33,900
something. And

1163
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,300
then being attracted to him, like

1164
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,565
yeah. When he relapsed and it was bad

1165
00:40:39,565 --> 00:40:40,704
and it was just

1166
00:40:41,085 --> 00:40:42,844
all that was kind of built. Even if

1167
00:40:42,844 --> 00:40:44,605
it was, like, a dry drunk and, like,

1168
00:40:44,605 --> 00:40:46,699
he wasn't in recovery at that point, it

1169
00:40:46,699 --> 00:40:48,460
was still he was meeting a lot of

1170
00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:49,119
the needs

1171
00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:52,000
that I knew. Like, he was, like, reliable

1172
00:40:52,059 --> 00:40:54,005
and he was calm and, you know,

1173
00:40:55,505 --> 00:40:56,964
all the things. So, yes,

1174
00:40:57,505 --> 00:40:58,405
it has been

1175
00:40:59,025 --> 00:41:00,644
probably one of the biggest struggles

1176
00:41:01,069 --> 00:41:01,730
now that he's

1177
00:41:02,109 --> 00:41:03,569
in sobriety and,

1178
00:41:03,949 --> 00:41:05,789
like, actively working on his recovery. It's been

1179
00:41:05,789 --> 00:41:07,069
one of the biggest things that we have

1180
00:41:07,069 --> 00:41:07,809
to deal with.

1181
00:41:08,534 --> 00:41:11,175
To find trust that it's gonna stick around

1182
00:41:11,175 --> 00:41:13,494
and stay this way All of it. And

1183
00:41:13,494 --> 00:41:15,255
to like him. I like that you used

1184
00:41:15,255 --> 00:41:18,019
that. Who else wants to like, there's love

1185
00:41:18,019 --> 00:41:19,860
and like. And I always thought as the

1186
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:22,019
alcoholic, the most important thing I can do

1187
00:41:22,019 --> 00:41:23,960
is make sure that Sherry loves me.

1188
00:41:24,260 --> 00:41:24,900
But I think

1189
00:41:26,085 --> 00:41:27,944
sorry to put words in your mouth, but

1190
00:41:28,484 --> 00:41:30,724
love was more of a consistent thing, but

1191
00:41:30,724 --> 00:41:32,244
there was a long time when you didn't

1192
00:41:32,244 --> 00:41:33,924
like me. Is that fair? Yeah. And I

1193
00:41:33,924 --> 00:41:35,309
didn't like When I I would love you

1194
00:41:35,309 --> 00:41:37,569
for so many things like being the father

1195
00:41:38,109 --> 00:41:39,730
of my our children and

1196
00:41:40,190 --> 00:41:42,204
I loved you because, you know, we were

1197
00:41:42,204 --> 00:41:44,304
partners in so many ways but then

1198
00:41:44,605 --> 00:41:45,505
like I didn't

1199
00:41:46,045 --> 00:41:47,724
like being around you when you drink I

1200
00:41:47,724 --> 00:41:49,324
didn't enjoy it at all like you said

1201
00:41:49,324 --> 00:41:51,579
Nicole I those are our arguments like I

1202
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:53,739
didn't like your company because when you were

1203
00:41:53,739 --> 00:41:55,420
drinking, you were not the company that I

1204
00:41:55,420 --> 00:41:56,640
would want to keep at those

1205
00:41:57,099 --> 00:41:58,000
at that point.

1206
00:41:58,539 --> 00:42:00,694
Does anyone else wanna chime in on Yeah.

1207
00:42:00,775 --> 00:42:03,174
Like versus love, Kristen? Yeah. For sure. I

1208
00:42:03,174 --> 00:42:04,855
I don't know that I like my husband

1209
00:42:04,855 --> 00:42:06,694
right now. He's not that likable, though, and

1210
00:42:06,694 --> 00:42:07,974
he doesn't I don't know that he likes

1211
00:42:07,974 --> 00:42:09,420
himself right right now.

1212
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,360
Wow. So it's hard. Like, he's not quite

1213
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,440
at the year 1 year mark yet, so

1214
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,199
he's still kinda digging himself out of the

1215
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:18,744
hole, still in depression and still healing.

1216
00:42:19,465 --> 00:42:21,545
And I'm hopeful he'll get back to the

1217
00:42:21,545 --> 00:42:24,025
person he was, which was wonderful. You know?

1218
00:42:24,025 --> 00:42:24,525
But,

1219
00:42:25,865 --> 00:42:27,625
you know, you think about, like, when you

1220
00:42:27,785 --> 00:42:29,420
when I met him, I don't know that

1221
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:30,940
I would even go on a date with

1222
00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:33,599
him right now just because he's just

1223
00:42:34,460 --> 00:42:35,839
blah. You know?

1224
00:42:36,539 --> 00:42:39,204
Yeah. I told my kids last summer when

1225
00:42:39,204 --> 00:42:40,585
my husband and I were separated,

1226
00:42:42,244 --> 00:42:43,925
because I didn't think we were gonna make

1227
00:42:43,925 --> 00:42:44,425
it

1228
00:42:44,965 --> 00:42:47,445
that because the my oldest was, you know,

1229
00:42:47,445 --> 00:42:47,829
well, don't

1230
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:54,250
unconditional.

1231
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:57,099
He he has done something that has hurt

1232
00:42:57,099 --> 00:42:58,264
me so bad, not unconditional. He

1233
00:42:59,125 --> 00:43:00,885
he has done something that has hurt me

1234
00:43:00,885 --> 00:43:02,485
so bad that I don't see a path

1235
00:43:02,485 --> 00:43:05,284
forward right now. And whereas the kids, I

1236
00:43:05,284 --> 00:43:06,298
don't care what you do, you know, that's

1237
00:43:06,298 --> 00:43:07,144
unconditional love. But with him, it's

1238
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,119
love. But with him, it's not. It's it's

1239
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:11,019
totally conditional.

1240
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,425
And I'm starting sometimes to like him now.

1241
00:43:14,425 --> 00:43:14,925
He's,

1242
00:43:15,545 --> 00:43:16,684
a little over a year.

1243
00:43:17,465 --> 00:43:19,565
But, you know, that that's

1244
00:43:19,864 --> 00:43:22,105
it's I'm just on this side alike so

1245
00:43:22,105 --> 00:43:23,945
it's real easy for me to tip back

1246
00:43:23,945 --> 00:43:26,340
to the other side. Is not enough. Yeah.

1247
00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:28,019
If love is not enough to carry I

1248
00:43:28,019 --> 00:43:30,440
mean, it's enough to keep me choosing, yes,

1249
00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:32,820
day to day. But then if those disliked

1250
00:43:32,820 --> 00:43:35,175
days were or or if he were to

1251
00:43:35,175 --> 00:43:36,855
fall back on drinking, I think it would

1252
00:43:36,855 --> 00:43:38,954
be a lot easier to Yeah.

1253
00:43:39,255 --> 00:43:40,934
It's enough to give me hope right now,

1254
00:43:40,934 --> 00:43:41,434
but

1255
00:43:42,855 --> 00:43:43,515
it's still

1256
00:43:43,815 --> 00:43:45,769
hard. Yeah. Mhmm. It was really, like, a

1257
00:43:45,769 --> 00:43:47,769
daily thing of do I like you today?

1258
00:43:47,769 --> 00:43:49,210
Yeah. Yeah. Do I like you at the

1259
00:43:49,210 --> 00:43:51,505
end of the day? And one thing could

1260
00:43:51,505 --> 00:43:53,505
have been said that would mean nothing that

1261
00:43:53,505 --> 00:43:54,785
it would make me think, no. Today, I

1262
00:43:54,785 --> 00:43:56,224
don't like you. Yeah. Exactly. Or the way

1263
00:43:56,224 --> 00:43:58,092
your photos look if you're, you know, you

1264
00:43:58,092 --> 00:43:59,719
didn't sleep well last night and not to

1265
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,559
your own Yeah. Fault, but all these things

1266
00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:02,920
you've done in the past, now I can't

1267
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,880
think about anything else. One negative comment will

1268
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,914
set me off too. Just, like, that little

1269
00:44:07,914 --> 00:44:10,555
bit of pessimist side that reminds me of

1270
00:44:10,555 --> 00:44:12,175
how he was when he was drinking.

1271
00:44:12,474 --> 00:44:13,135
It's triggering.

1272
00:44:13,434 --> 00:44:13,934
Yeah.

1273
00:44:14,235 --> 00:44:15,489
I think that's so

1274
00:44:19,070 --> 00:44:19,570
undervalued.

1275
00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:21,250
Is that the right word?

1276
00:44:21,710 --> 00:44:23,010
Like, not enough

1277
00:44:23,484 --> 00:44:25,885
people talk about how quick it is to

1278
00:44:25,885 --> 00:44:26,385
go

1279
00:44:26,925 --> 00:44:28,144
in and out of, like,

1280
00:44:28,525 --> 00:44:30,945
with somebody, especially through

1281
00:44:31,644 --> 00:44:32,464
our process.

1282
00:44:33,005 --> 00:44:36,829
Like, it's not just a normal marriage type

1283
00:44:36,829 --> 00:44:39,390
of situation at this point. We're like, oh,

1284
00:44:39,390 --> 00:44:40,910
we're mad because we got in a fight

1285
00:44:40,910 --> 00:44:41,890
over the dishwasher.

1286
00:44:42,269 --> 00:44:42,769
Like,

1287
00:44:43,150 --> 00:44:43,295
it's

1288
00:44:44,494 --> 00:44:47,074
so it goes so much deeper, but yet

1289
00:44:48,655 --> 00:44:50,974
it's it's just not discussed. It's not

1290
00:44:51,534 --> 00:44:53,659
no one would understand it

1291
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,539
Mhmm. Unless it was one of us. Mhmm.

1292
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:58,679
We fought because he was mowing the lawn

1293
00:44:58,679 --> 00:44:59,980
in the middle of the afternoon.

1294
00:45:00,735 --> 00:45:02,414
Who gets mad at their husband for that?

1295
00:45:02,414 --> 00:45:04,414
Except for someone who's triggered because he's doing

1296
00:45:04,414 --> 00:45:06,735
something random at the random it's a 100

1297
00:45:06,735 --> 00:45:08,894
degrees. Uh-huh. And we fought, like, well, he

1298
00:45:08,894 --> 00:45:10,130
didn't fight me, but I

1299
00:45:10,529 --> 00:45:11,029
internally

1300
00:45:11,329 --> 00:45:13,650
fought him and externally fought him. But, like,

1301
00:45:13,650 --> 00:45:15,109
things like that, like the dishwasher.

1302
00:45:15,730 --> 00:45:17,489
Yes. So true. Who What any new things

1303
00:45:17,650 --> 00:45:19,335
Was it because he used to drink beer

1304
00:45:19,414 --> 00:45:20,614
when he mowed the lawn? Like, what what's

1305
00:45:20,614 --> 00:45:22,074
the trigger? Not fear.

1306
00:45:23,494 --> 00:45:23,994
Because

1307
00:45:24,295 --> 00:45:24,795
he

1308
00:45:25,175 --> 00:45:27,914
because it's just something that makes no sense,

1309
00:45:28,135 --> 00:45:29,800
and things would get done that made no

1310
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,640
sense. It's like, this makes no sense for

1311
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,480
you to be doing this right now. And

1312
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:34,840
because we had to go to a birthday

1313
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,306
party. So it's a reminder of a radical

1314
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:38,795
an hour later. Yeah. We had things to

1315
00:45:38,795 --> 00:45:40,234
do and it's like, why are you mowing

1316
00:45:40,234 --> 00:45:42,394
right now? So it's it's really those things.

1317
00:45:42,394 --> 00:45:44,074
But CNI used to have that just from

1318
00:45:44,074 --> 00:45:44,815
him laughing.

1319
00:45:45,675 --> 00:45:48,269
Why are you laughing right now? Like,

1320
00:45:48,889 --> 00:45:50,730
I used to question it because it he

1321
00:45:50,730 --> 00:45:51,710
wasn't this, like,

1322
00:45:52,089 --> 00:45:55,565
giggly kinda guy. Yes. So like, anytime he

1323
00:45:55,565 --> 00:45:58,045
would like, you know, start laughing, I would

1324
00:45:58,045 --> 00:46:00,125
get so mad because I'm like, what does

1325
00:46:00,125 --> 00:46:00,704
that mean?

1326
00:46:01,085 --> 00:46:03,030
Like, well, what am I missing? Am I

1327
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:05,289
high is he hiding something again? Like,

1328
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:07,530
it just spiraled from there.

1329
00:46:08,469 --> 00:46:10,034
So the need, one of the lists,

1330
00:46:10,514 --> 00:46:12,114
one of the words that I wrote down

1331
00:46:12,114 --> 00:46:13,795
in the list of needs that you have

1332
00:46:13,795 --> 00:46:16,375
now that need to be met was consistency.

1333
00:46:16,434 --> 00:46:18,434
And it sounds like this that's what this

1334
00:46:18,434 --> 00:46:21,030
part of the conversation is all about. That

1335
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:22,329
your partner is predictable

1336
00:46:22,789 --> 00:46:24,869
and so you don't have to go back

1337
00:46:24,869 --> 00:46:27,530
into detective mode as we say. Right? And

1338
00:46:27,590 --> 00:46:29,394
wonder wonder what what do I not know

1339
00:46:29,394 --> 00:46:30,375
that's really happening?

1340
00:46:30,675 --> 00:46:33,035
I call it my spidey sense. Yeah. And

1341
00:46:33,035 --> 00:46:34,195
I tell and I tell them that my

1342
00:46:34,195 --> 00:46:35,875
spidey senses are going off. I don't know

1343
00:46:35,875 --> 00:46:37,360
if something's off, but my spidey senses are

1344
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:37,860
going off.

1345
00:46:39,140 --> 00:46:40,660
And it's good and it's a superpower and

1346
00:46:40,660 --> 00:46:42,019
you recognize it but it's not one you

1347
00:46:42,019 --> 00:46:44,579
particularly like to use. Right and it's not

1348
00:46:44,579 --> 00:46:46,280
necessarily like a laser.

1349
00:46:46,820 --> 00:46:47,905
You know it's more like,

1350
00:46:48,864 --> 00:46:50,864
like one of those spotlights that throws up

1351
00:46:50,864 --> 00:46:51,605
in the sky.

1352
00:46:53,105 --> 00:46:55,025
I'm trying to come up with you. Yeah.

1353
00:46:55,025 --> 00:46:57,530
I'm trying to a better analogy for that.

1354
00:46:57,530 --> 00:46:59,690
Like, it's just, like, a Spidey sense, you're

1355
00:46:59,690 --> 00:47:01,210
like, I feel something is off and I

1356
00:47:01,210 --> 00:47:03,344
don't know what it is. Right. And, you

1357
00:47:03,344 --> 00:47:05,585
know, there is no, like, okay, this is

1358
00:47:05,585 --> 00:47:07,184
exactly what it is. Yeah. And you're like

1359
00:47:07,184 --> 00:47:09,125
questioning everything. Everything is

1360
00:47:10,909 --> 00:47:13,789
feeling unsafe. Yeah. Everything is gonna set you

1361
00:47:13,789 --> 00:47:17,010
off. Every little, like, erratic behavior of mowing

1362
00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:19,550
the lawn on a 100 degree afternoon. Like,

1363
00:47:19,550 --> 00:47:21,684
that just all throws us off.

1364
00:47:21,985 --> 00:47:23,825
And then that puts us in this, like,

1365
00:47:23,825 --> 00:47:24,965
unsafe, unsecure

1366
00:47:25,585 --> 00:47:27,849
position where then we're walking on eggshells because

1367
00:47:27,849 --> 00:47:30,349
we're looking around trying to analyze

1368
00:47:30,650 --> 00:47:33,469
every situation, overanalyze it. And then

1369
00:47:33,769 --> 00:47:35,605
sometimes we turn it back in on ourselves.

1370
00:47:35,605 --> 00:47:37,545
Like, are we just being crazy?

1371
00:47:38,244 --> 00:47:39,945
And then we get really, like,

1372
00:47:40,324 --> 00:47:41,144
self defeating.

1373
00:47:41,525 --> 00:47:43,844
Like, we're kinda beating ourselves up. And it

1374
00:47:43,844 --> 00:47:45,909
makes had it for so long. It makes

1375
00:47:45,909 --> 00:47:48,789
them think we're crazy. Yeah. Like, when you

1376
00:47:48,789 --> 00:47:50,409
fight your husband because

1377
00:47:50,949 --> 00:47:53,085
he mows the lawn at the wrong time

1378
00:47:53,085 --> 00:47:53,824
for you,

1379
00:47:54,125 --> 00:47:55,585
you know, it makes them

1380
00:47:56,045 --> 00:47:58,704
think we're crazy and then accuse us of

1381
00:47:59,085 --> 00:48:01,039
being crazy and then that makes us More

1382
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:03,760
critical. More mad. Yeah. And it's like a

1383
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:04,260
cycle.

1384
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,400
You know that I've kind of been okay

1385
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,319
with that when he's like you're not making

1386
00:48:08,319 --> 00:48:09,394
sense and I'm like,

1387
00:48:09,954 --> 00:48:11,815
well, I want Thank you. Potkettle,

1388
00:48:12,434 --> 00:48:14,434
New Year's. The I was like, I don't

1389
00:48:14,434 --> 00:48:16,215
understand what's going on here.

1390
00:48:16,594 --> 00:48:18,819
You know? I don't understand why you got

1391
00:48:18,819 --> 00:48:20,839
angry at me. I don't understand

1392
00:48:21,380 --> 00:48:24,099
why you were storming or, you know, storming

1393
00:48:24,099 --> 00:48:26,280
out at Thanksgiving. I don't understand

1394
00:48:27,695 --> 00:48:28,815
what you know, why all of this is

1395
00:48:28,815 --> 00:48:29,315
happening,

1396
00:48:30,894 --> 00:48:33,135
because we were still in that stage of

1397
00:48:33,135 --> 00:48:35,960
always seeing things as individual incidents instead of

1398
00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:38,500
Mhmm. Over an overall pattern.

1399
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,719
And so, yeah, when I act a little

1400
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:41,219
crazy,

1401
00:48:41,839 --> 00:48:43,844
I'm kind of okay with that. And I'm

1402
00:48:43,844 --> 00:48:45,364
kind of okay with him having to cope

1403
00:48:45,364 --> 00:48:47,224
with that. And I know this sounds angry,

1404
00:48:47,684 --> 00:48:49,925
but I am, like, I am really okay

1405
00:48:49,925 --> 00:48:52,025
with him coping with my crazy sometimes.

1406
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:54,710
I'm with you on the hook. Yeah. That

1407
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:57,190
sounds like a really healthy self esteem, which

1408
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:58,949
is what recovery on both sides is all

1409
00:48:58,949 --> 00:49:01,344
about to me. You're not worried about,

1410
00:49:02,525 --> 00:49:04,285
what somebody else thinks of you, whether that's

1411
00:49:04,285 --> 00:49:05,765
your partner or not. And that's That's awesome.

1412
00:49:05,965 --> 00:49:07,244
I do worry about that. I don't I

1413
00:49:07,244 --> 00:49:08,889
don't want to Okay. Put it out there

1414
00:49:08,889 --> 00:49:10,570
like but I do worry what he thinks

1415
00:49:10,570 --> 00:49:12,570
about me. But at the same time, I'm

1416
00:49:12,570 --> 00:49:13,849
like, you know, if you have to cope

1417
00:49:13,849 --> 00:49:15,530
with some of my crazy, I'm okay with

1418
00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:18,010
that. I like that. Yeah. I think I

1419
00:49:18,010 --> 00:49:19,875
think this is a really, really important

1420
00:49:20,335 --> 00:49:21,954
part of this conversation because

1421
00:49:22,574 --> 00:49:24,755
the stakes are so high for y'all.

1422
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:28,230
Lauren sees mowing a lawn at a 100

1423
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:29,690
degrees in the middle of the day,

1424
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:30,809
and

1425
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:33,974
she starts an argument about it because it's

1426
00:49:34,295 --> 00:49:35,914
erratic and doesn't seem right.

1427
00:49:36,454 --> 00:49:38,775
And if I'm your husband, I'm like, Jesus,

1428
00:49:38,775 --> 00:49:40,135
what do I gotta do to please this

1429
00:49:40,135 --> 00:49:40,635
woman?

1430
00:49:41,414 --> 00:49:43,269
I'm I'm doing my chore, chore, and I'm

1431
00:49:43,269 --> 00:49:44,730
fighting the elements, and

1432
00:49:45,110 --> 00:49:47,110
I'm making it happen. But that's not what

1433
00:49:47,110 --> 00:49:48,969
it's about for you. For you is,

1434
00:49:49,989 --> 00:49:52,644
this this is the behavior that I experienced

1435
00:49:52,864 --> 00:49:54,945
when the kind of worst segment of my

1436
00:49:54,945 --> 00:49:56,945
life was taking place, and I can't go

1437
00:49:56,945 --> 00:49:59,079
back there. And so I just think that's

1438
00:49:59,079 --> 00:50:01,079
really, really important for the folks on my

1439
00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:03,880
side of the the fence, the alcoholics, to

1440
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:04,380
understand.

1441
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:05,800
It's

1442
00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:08,795
what it's about is how high the stakes

1443
00:50:08,795 --> 00:50:09,775
are because

1444
00:50:10,075 --> 00:50:11,695
you're behaving in a way that

1445
00:50:12,235 --> 00:50:14,394
you you have set boundaries and you have

1446
00:50:14,394 --> 00:50:15,839
in your head said, I'm not gonna I'm

1447
00:50:15,839 --> 00:50:17,760
not going back there. Right? I'm not going

1448
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,920
back there no matter what. And you're doing

1449
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,359
the thing that makes me think you wanna

1450
00:50:21,359 --> 00:50:22,099
go back there.

1451
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,375
Well, the problem was too that I didn't

1452
00:50:24,375 --> 00:50:26,454
realize that I was triggered by it. Like,

1453
00:50:26,454 --> 00:50:27,894
I thought I was just mad about it.

1454
00:50:27,894 --> 00:50:30,215
And then I didn't piece that together until,

1455
00:50:30,215 --> 00:50:31,494
like, 2 days later that I Well, you

1456
00:50:31,494 --> 00:50:33,670
should've listened to this episode anyway. I know.

1457
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:35,429
So I feel like it didn't even have

1458
00:50:35,429 --> 00:50:37,670
to be, like, an argument with your spouse.

1459
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:40,230
It could've easily been an internal argument with

1460
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:42,230
yourself, and then you have to figure out

1461
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:43,445
how am I gonna get out of

1462
00:50:44,085 --> 00:50:45,684
this and, like, that's when your recovery piece

1463
00:50:45,684 --> 00:50:47,684
comes in and how you have to figure

1464
00:50:47,684 --> 00:50:49,364
out how you're going to heal from your

1465
00:50:49,364 --> 00:50:51,385
own triggers. I know for

1466
00:50:51,844 --> 00:50:54,170
a while, it was touch and go with

1467
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:57,670
how to move forward from his triggers and

1468
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:59,269
my triggers. I know for a long time

1469
00:50:59,269 --> 00:51:00,889
he expected me to just avoid

1470
00:51:01,190 --> 00:51:02,010
his triggers.

1471
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:04,855
And I'm like, it could be popcorn. Like,

1472
00:51:04,855 --> 00:51:06,934
I have no idea what how to, you

1473
00:51:06,934 --> 00:51:07,434
know,

1474
00:51:07,974 --> 00:51:10,960
prevent your triggers from happening. But, like,

1475
00:51:11,420 --> 00:51:14,079
they're your your triggers are your responsibility.

1476
00:51:15,260 --> 00:51:18,380
And it's it doesn't always need to be

1477
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:19,199
an actual

1478
00:51:19,644 --> 00:51:21,805
argument with your spouse, but an argument with

1479
00:51:21,805 --> 00:51:22,305
yourself

1480
00:51:22,605 --> 00:51:24,045
and going, oh, what am I gonna do

1481
00:51:24,045 --> 00:51:25,405
to get this out of my head and

1482
00:51:25,405 --> 00:51:26,385
move past it?

1483
00:51:26,684 --> 00:51:28,380
And that's that's hard.

1484
00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:31,960
Yeah. I think it's also okay if we

1485
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,619
don't even know what they all are yet.

1486
00:51:34,945 --> 00:51:37,505
Right. Because it's a process for us too.

1487
00:51:37,505 --> 00:51:39,425
Right. Sometimes you don't know until it comes

1488
00:51:39,425 --> 00:51:40,784
up. Yeah. Like, you didn't know that was

1489
00:51:40,784 --> 00:51:42,389
gonna be a trigger for you. Yeah. I

1490
00:51:42,389 --> 00:51:43,690
call it feeling spiky.

1491
00:51:43,989 --> 00:51:46,150
Yeah. Like, I'm feeling spiky today. I can't

1492
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:47,589
put my finger on it, but I'm feeling

1493
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:49,244
spiky. And if I figure it out, I'll

1494
00:51:49,244 --> 00:51:51,724
let you know. Mhmm. Yeah. But in the

1495
00:51:51,724 --> 00:51:53,664
meantime, you might wanna avoid me.

1496
00:51:54,285 --> 00:51:55,505
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

1497
00:51:56,045 --> 00:51:57,664
And just don't ask any questions

1498
00:51:58,125 --> 00:52:00,159
unless this is what can I bring you?

1499
00:52:01,739 --> 00:52:03,500
Sometimes even that question. Sometimes that's not exactly

1500
00:52:04,139 --> 00:52:06,800
way. Why don't you know. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

1501
00:52:06,940 --> 00:52:08,744
How can you not read my mind?

1502
00:52:10,405 --> 00:52:11,625
So we talked about

1503
00:52:12,085 --> 00:52:13,465
what your needs were

1504
00:52:13,925 --> 00:52:15,730
in the way back machine, and we talked

1505
00:52:15,730 --> 00:52:17,269
about what your needs are now.

1506
00:52:17,650 --> 00:52:19,170
Now let's talk a little bit about the

1507
00:52:19,170 --> 00:52:19,670
transition

1508
00:52:20,289 --> 00:52:21,784
because I think there's a number of things

1509
00:52:21,784 --> 00:52:23,625
at play here. Obviously, you've all been through

1510
00:52:23,625 --> 00:52:25,484
a very traumatic, very chaotic,

1511
00:52:26,664 --> 00:52:27,164
very

1512
00:52:27,545 --> 00:52:28,045
unfair

1513
00:52:28,824 --> 00:52:30,764
situation that you've had to survive.

1514
00:52:31,224 --> 00:52:32,480
So that's a factor.

1515
00:52:32,780 --> 00:52:33,760
But you've also,

1516
00:52:35,179 --> 00:52:37,739
grown older and wiser and matured over that

1517
00:52:37,739 --> 00:52:40,005
time too. Some of you have had

1518
00:52:40,464 --> 00:52:42,404
kids as well during this time.

1519
00:52:42,784 --> 00:52:45,344
What are the influences on how your needs

1520
00:52:45,344 --> 00:52:47,159
have changed? And do you ever think about

1521
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:47,980
this? Do you

1522
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:49,179
say, I need

1523
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:50,059
consistency

1524
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:51,500
and stability

1525
00:52:52,039 --> 00:52:52,780
and peace

1526
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,780
because I've been in an alcoholic

1527
00:52:55,105 --> 00:52:57,605
relationship? Or is that just because you've matured

1528
00:52:57,664 --> 00:53:00,065
and you're you're further along down the path

1529
00:53:00,065 --> 00:53:00,565
now?

1530
00:53:01,585 --> 00:53:04,065
I think it's both. I mean, I, you

1531
00:53:04,065 --> 00:53:06,609
know, I I was 21 or 22 and

1532
00:53:06,609 --> 00:53:07,349
now I'm 35

1533
00:53:07,809 --> 00:53:09,489
and so of course my needs are gonna

1534
00:53:09,489 --> 00:53:11,670
change. I mean, my needs and my friendships

1535
00:53:11,730 --> 00:53:12,469
have also

1536
00:53:13,154 --> 00:53:14,694
changed. Right? My needs and

1537
00:53:15,154 --> 00:53:17,894
like my career have also changed. Like everything

1538
00:53:17,954 --> 00:53:20,034
changes as you get older. But on the

1539
00:53:20,034 --> 00:53:20,429
same

1540
00:53:21,550 --> 00:53:24,349
hand, on the same hand, we- yeah, I'92ve

1541
00:53:24,349 --> 00:53:27,569
been in this relationship and we'92ve experienced alcoholism

1542
00:53:27,949 --> 00:53:28,929
together and

1543
00:53:29,934 --> 00:53:32,675
that has definitely skewed my,

1544
00:53:34,894 --> 00:53:36,114
my vision of

1545
00:53:36,655 --> 00:53:39,219
or it skewed like, how I think my

1546
00:53:39,219 --> 00:53:41,539
life is gonna turn out. Whether it's positive

1547
00:53:41,539 --> 00:53:43,719
or negative, it could go either way,

1548
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:45,940
but I think it's just

1549
00:53:46,514 --> 00:53:48,054
it just changes your perspective

1550
00:53:48,755 --> 00:53:50,674
on things. I think that it shines a

1551
00:53:50,674 --> 00:53:51,654
light on

1552
00:53:52,434 --> 00:53:55,119
you you've been without the peace and the

1553
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:55,619
contentment

1554
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:58,579
because you're in the alcoholic relationship.

1555
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,179
If it was just a normal

1556
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:01,460
marriage

1557
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,355
where that wasn't an

1558
00:54:03,735 --> 00:54:05,815
issue, those things are still needs, but it's

1559
00:54:05,815 --> 00:54:06,315
not

1560
00:54:07,894 --> 00:54:08,795
as highlighted

1561
00:54:09,414 --> 00:54:11,210
because you didn't have it. Those were all

1562
00:54:11,210 --> 00:54:12,829
taken. We weren't safe. We weren't

1563
00:54:13,449 --> 00:54:15,690
loved and cared for the way we were

1564
00:54:15,690 --> 00:54:16,909
promised. So

1565
00:54:17,905 --> 00:54:19,844
those things become even more important.

1566
00:54:20,385 --> 00:54:22,305
It's not just the ages because of the,

1567
00:54:22,305 --> 00:54:25,025
you know, it's still important otherwise, but it's

1568
00:54:25,025 --> 00:54:27,190
it's the lack thereof that made it

1569
00:54:27,570 --> 00:54:29,489
even more important. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't

1570
00:54:29,489 --> 00:54:31,170
know if any of us could say if

1571
00:54:31,170 --> 00:54:33,010
we weren't and if we hadn't been through

1572
00:54:33,010 --> 00:54:34,230
what we've been through,

1573
00:54:34,769 --> 00:54:35,474
what our needs

1574
00:54:36,355 --> 00:54:37,555
would be now. If it or if it's

1575
00:54:37,555 --> 00:54:39,175
part of just growing

1576
00:54:39,875 --> 00:54:40,775
older and wiser

1577
00:54:41,075 --> 00:54:43,030
that your needs change and having had, like,

1578
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:45,110
you know, our biological clock for most of

1579
00:54:45,110 --> 00:54:47,110
us is done ticking. So maybe not a

1580
00:54:47,110 --> 00:54:47,610
list.

1581
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:50,309
For some of us, it's it's done ticking

1582
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:51,849
by a long shot. But,

1583
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:53,994
you know, so that's certainly not

1584
00:54:54,534 --> 00:54:56,135
something that's going on. But

1585
00:54:57,414 --> 00:54:59,414
Yeah. I think, like, as I go through

1586
00:54:59,414 --> 00:55:01,800
this process and, like, and try to grow

1587
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,420
through it, I am trying to be

1588
00:55:04,039 --> 00:55:05,980
more mindful of the journey

1589
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,005
and more appreciative.

1590
00:55:08,704 --> 00:55:10,784
So even when I get into that place

1591
00:55:10,784 --> 00:55:12,945
where I feel like my needs aren't being

1592
00:55:12,945 --> 00:55:13,445
met,

1593
00:55:13,824 --> 00:55:15,480
I'm really trying to look and be like,

1594
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:16,140
okay. Well,

1595
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:18,519
it's still so much better. Like, oh my

1596
00:55:18,519 --> 00:55:20,680
gosh. We went to a baseball game. And

1597
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,119
I remember last year when we went to

1598
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:24,275
a baseball game, and and it was awful.

1599
00:55:24,275 --> 00:55:25,414
And I had all these anxiety,

1600
00:55:26,755 --> 00:55:29,155
and this was peaceful. This was fun. You

1601
00:55:29,155 --> 00:55:31,015
know? Or we went out, you know,

1602
00:55:31,555 --> 00:55:33,650
for a mini for a long weekend and

1603
00:55:33,650 --> 00:55:36,530
it was drama free. Wow. Like, this was

1604
00:55:36,530 --> 00:55:38,690
really nice, you know. So even if I

1605
00:55:38,690 --> 00:55:39,510
don't have

1606
00:55:39,969 --> 00:55:40,469
that,

1607
00:55:41,425 --> 00:55:41,925
connection

1608
00:55:43,184 --> 00:55:45,505
and where my relationship needs as a wife

1609
00:55:45,505 --> 00:55:46,324
are being met,

1610
00:55:46,864 --> 00:55:49,505
I'm in a better place and he's allowing

1611
00:55:49,505 --> 00:55:51,329
me to be in a better place. Well,

1612
00:55:51,410 --> 00:55:53,489
in some ways I feel like maybe I

1613
00:55:53,489 --> 00:55:56,150
wouldn't have matured as much as I have

1614
00:55:56,450 --> 00:55:58,150
if I hadn't been through

1615
00:55:58,530 --> 00:55:59,349
this situation.

1616
00:56:00,369 --> 00:56:01,030
You know,

1617
00:56:01,684 --> 00:56:04,744
like I always say certain events that happened

1618
00:56:05,525 --> 00:56:07,065
catapulted me into adulthood.

1619
00:56:07,684 --> 00:56:09,224
You know, like I wasn't ready

1620
00:56:09,764 --> 00:56:10,010
and

1621
00:56:10,809 --> 00:56:13,230
it just happened because of circumstances.

1622
00:56:13,769 --> 00:56:14,269
And

1623
00:56:14,650 --> 00:56:16,489
I would've gotten older and I would've matured,

1624
00:56:16,489 --> 00:56:18,065
but maybe not as much and maybe not

1625
00:56:18,065 --> 00:56:19,045
in the same way.

1626
00:56:20,545 --> 00:56:22,164
Edie, a lot of people say

1627
00:56:22,545 --> 00:56:24,864
that they wouldn't wish the experience that you've

1628
00:56:24,864 --> 00:56:26,659
been through, that all of you been through

1629
00:56:26,659 --> 00:56:28,340
on your worst enemy, but at the same

1630
00:56:28,340 --> 00:56:28,840
time,

1631
00:56:29,619 --> 00:56:30,360
you wouldn't

1632
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:33,460
want to not have had the experience because

1633
00:56:33,460 --> 00:56:35,539
of the knowledge that you take away. Right.

1634
00:56:35,539 --> 00:56:36,934
Are you one of those people that say

1635
00:56:36,934 --> 00:56:38,954
that? Yeah. For sure. I mean,

1636
00:56:39,494 --> 00:56:39,994
I

1637
00:56:41,175 --> 00:56:43,260
it's hard because I think like if I

1638
00:56:43,260 --> 00:56:44,079
knew now

1639
00:56:44,860 --> 00:56:46,480
that all of that was gonna happen,

1640
00:56:47,260 --> 00:56:48,320
would I still,

1641
00:56:49,260 --> 00:56:51,179
you know, like, wanna be with my partner?

1642
00:56:51,179 --> 00:56:52,974
Would I still have chosen to marry him

1643
00:56:53,055 --> 00:56:53,875
him and all of that?

1644
00:56:54,894 --> 00:56:57,235
I think I would, you know, because,

1645
00:56:58,095 --> 00:56:59,394
I mean, it's definitely

1646
00:57:00,414 --> 00:57:02,809
I don't wanna say I'm thankful because that

1647
00:57:02,809 --> 00:57:03,789
seems so, like,

1648
00:57:04,650 --> 00:57:07,449
wrong and stupid to say, but I would

1649
00:57:07,449 --> 00:57:08,670
say in some ways

1650
00:57:08,969 --> 00:57:09,789
I'm thankful

1651
00:57:10,329 --> 00:57:12,364
for the process and for the hardships

1652
00:57:12,824 --> 00:57:15,085
because it's made me grow stronger maybe.

1653
00:57:15,545 --> 00:57:16,045
Yeah.

1654
00:57:17,304 --> 00:57:18,585
I don't know that I agree with you.

1655
00:57:18,585 --> 00:57:20,440
I don't I don't. I so For sure.

1656
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,860
Last summer when we were separated, I thought

1657
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,119
I'm grateful that I have my 3 kids.

1658
00:57:26,119 --> 00:57:27,800
Mhmm. But I wish I would have found

1659
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,105
out that I was married and he wasn't

1660
00:57:30,105 --> 00:57:30,765
an alcoholic.

1661
00:57:31,065 --> 00:57:33,164
He it ramped up. But

1662
00:57:33,545 --> 00:57:35,305
once he became an alcoholic, I wish I

1663
00:57:35,305 --> 00:57:36,525
would have known because

1664
00:57:36,825 --> 00:57:38,525
I was a lot younger. And

1665
00:57:39,050 --> 00:57:40,809
and at the same time, I've heard people

1666
00:57:40,809 --> 00:57:41,869
who are in

1667
00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:43,849
the hell of it now with young kids

1668
00:57:43,849 --> 00:57:45,630
and then they have to, like, split time.

1669
00:57:45,849 --> 00:57:47,835
And so maybe I wanna change my answer

1670
00:57:47,835 --> 00:57:49,755
as I'm saying it because I don't I

1671
00:57:49,755 --> 00:57:51,434
would not have given up a second with

1672
00:57:51,434 --> 00:57:52,094
my kids.

1673
00:57:52,795 --> 00:57:53,614
So I guess

1674
00:57:53,994 --> 00:57:56,630
I got to raise them basically by myself.

1675
00:57:56,849 --> 00:57:58,389
He was there but he was never

1676
00:57:58,929 --> 00:58:00,230
a 100% there.

1677
00:58:00,530 --> 00:58:02,744
So I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking that

1678
00:58:02,744 --> 00:58:04,664
through because I wouldn't have wanted to for

1679
00:58:04,664 --> 00:58:06,105
them to go away, you know, for 2

1680
00:58:06,105 --> 00:58:07,625
weeks in the summer or every other weekend

1681
00:58:07,625 --> 00:58:08,605
or any of that stuff.

1682
00:58:09,784 --> 00:58:12,820
It's tough. Yeah. Choose your heart. Right? I

1683
00:58:12,820 --> 00:58:15,059
guess so. Melanie, you were shaking your head.

1684
00:58:15,059 --> 00:58:15,960
Yeah. Well,

1685
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:17,160
I don't

1686
00:58:18,420 --> 00:58:20,855
I don't wish this on anybody, and I

1687
00:58:20,855 --> 00:58:22,934
don't like that I went through it. I

1688
00:58:22,934 --> 00:58:24,934
wouldn't wanna I wouldn't if I I would've

1689
00:58:24,934 --> 00:58:26,695
changed it if I could. Definitely. Can we

1690
00:58:26,695 --> 00:58:29,090
think of the easy pass? Right. Yeah. Yeah.

1691
00:58:29,150 --> 00:58:30,670
So I guess I don't know. I mean,

1692
00:58:30,670 --> 00:58:32,769
I can understand what you're saying too

1693
00:58:33,550 --> 00:58:34,989
because I yeah. And you're well, you know,

1694
00:58:34,989 --> 00:58:36,670
I have my kids, and then I I

1695
00:58:36,670 --> 00:58:38,175
wouldn't change that for the world

1696
00:58:39,035 --> 00:58:41,594
or some of my early life experiences. But,

1697
00:58:41,594 --> 00:58:43,914
yeah, if I could've, like, you know, change

1698
00:58:44,074 --> 00:58:45,530
take a different fork in the road from,

1699
00:58:45,530 --> 00:58:48,329
like, you know, 15 years ago, yeah, I

1700
00:58:48,329 --> 00:58:50,730
would've. I wouldn't have repeated that because it

1701
00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:51,230
sucked.

1702
00:58:51,929 --> 00:58:54,570
Yeah. No. And it's just I'm just still

1703
00:58:54,570 --> 00:58:56,494
angry, you know, that I,

1704
00:58:56,875 --> 00:58:58,574
like, didn't get what I

1705
00:58:58,875 --> 00:59:01,135
thought I married. You know? Like, why? Why?

1706
00:59:01,194 --> 00:59:01,694
Why?

1707
00:59:02,289 --> 00:59:03,969
You know? And all those memories are tarnished

1708
00:59:03,969 --> 00:59:05,969
now. Like, every day Right. From you know?

1709
00:59:05,969 --> 00:59:07,489
It it goes back to the dreams. Like

1710
00:59:07,650 --> 00:59:09,989
Yeah. You know? Oh, I wanted

1711
00:59:10,610 --> 00:59:12,644
it to be different. I guess I also

1712
00:59:12,644 --> 00:59:14,565
I guess I also think, like, well, if

1713
00:59:14,565 --> 00:59:16,644
it hadn't been this, it would have been

1714
00:59:16,644 --> 00:59:17,464
something else.

1715
00:59:18,164 --> 00:59:20,184
Like, there is no easy path.

1716
00:59:20,644 --> 00:59:21,384
You know?

1717
00:59:21,764 --> 00:59:24,230
So I guess maybe that's the truth. I

1718
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:25,670
mean, I get what you're saying, Evie. I'm

1719
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:27,769
kinda kinda like there's a reason

1720
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:29,670
there's for better or for worse in the

1721
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:32,304
married spouse. Mhmm. A very good reason for

1722
00:59:32,304 --> 00:59:33,364
that. Yeah. But

1723
00:59:34,385 --> 00:59:36,704
at the same time, you can you you

1724
00:59:36,704 --> 00:59:38,704
do get kinda blindsided by it. Yes. And

1725
00:59:38,704 --> 00:59:40,589
no, I wouldn't wish this on anybody but

1726
00:59:40,589 --> 00:59:43,010
I think it was an maybe another,

1727
00:59:44,429 --> 00:59:47,069
Echoes Retreat podcast where somebody said, like, if

1728
00:59:47,069 --> 00:59:48,289
I changed one thing,

1729
00:59:48,750 --> 00:59:51,295
it would have changed everything. Right. Right. And

1730
00:59:51,295 --> 00:59:53,235
the person who said it was specifically

1731
00:59:53,535 --> 00:59:54,755
referring to her children

1732
00:59:55,375 --> 00:59:57,315
or her child. Yeah. I wouldn't change

1733
00:59:57,690 --> 00:59:58,970
anything if it meant I didn't have my

1734
00:59:58,970 --> 00:59:59,869
daughter. Exactly.

1735
01:00:00,250 --> 01:00:02,489
Not a not a damn that no matter

1736
01:00:02,489 --> 01:00:03,710
how much I've suffered,

1737
01:00:04,844 --> 01:00:07,164
or even that she's suffered, if it means

1738
01:00:07,164 --> 01:00:07,905
she's here,

1739
01:00:08,445 --> 01:00:10,224
I'll deal with it. Yeah. Yeah.

1740
01:00:10,684 --> 01:00:13,019
But at the same time, having to go

1741
01:00:15,820 --> 01:00:17,659
through this, you know, there's something I started

1742
01:00:17,659 --> 01:00:19,579
saying a couple of year about a year

1743
01:00:19,579 --> 01:00:20,079
back,

1744
01:00:21,980 --> 01:00:24,224
to some family and friends, and it's,

1745
01:00:25,164 --> 01:00:27,585
you know, our relationship didn't tank overnight.

1746
01:00:29,324 --> 01:00:31,324
Conan didn't dive into alcohol. He didn't wake

1747
01:00:31,324 --> 01:00:33,300
up one morning and become an alcoholic.

1748
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,559
This all happened over a long period of

1749
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:38,480
time and it's not gonna be fixed like

1750
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:38,980
that.

1751
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,264
And I say this to Kevin. You know,

1752
01:00:41,264 --> 01:00:43,284
you didn't become an alcoholic overnight.

1753
01:00:43,585 --> 01:00:45,105
You're not gonna wake up one morning and

1754
01:00:45,105 --> 01:00:47,619
everything is gonna be great. Mhmm. And, no,

1755
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:49,460
we can't go back in time because that

1756
01:00:49,460 --> 01:00:51,320
was another thing he said to me,

1757
01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:54,019
prior to coming home. I just want us

1758
01:00:54,019 --> 01:00:55,539
to go back, and I said, I don't.

1759
01:00:55,539 --> 01:00:56,039
Mm-mm.

1760
01:00:56,340 --> 01:00:58,484
We are not going back. That was something

1761
01:00:58,484 --> 01:01:01,045
my husband would say, like, can you promise

1762
01:01:01,045 --> 01:01:02,484
me we're gonna be like we were no.

1763
01:01:02,484 --> 01:01:03,925
I can't promise you. No. That's what we're

1764
01:01:03,925 --> 01:01:05,684
gonna be like we're working for. I'm not

1765
01:01:05,684 --> 01:01:07,539
the same person. You're not the same I

1766
01:01:07,539 --> 01:01:09,859
said flat out no. I said, we are

1767
01:01:09,859 --> 01:01:12,019
not going back there because that's how we

1768
01:01:12,019 --> 01:01:13,940
got here. Right. Yeah. Well, I'm not doing

1769
01:01:13,940 --> 01:01:16,099
this again. Right. You know, we've we've got

1770
01:01:16,099 --> 01:01:18,284
our Yeah. We may not have to burn

1771
01:01:18,284 --> 01:01:19,804
the whole thing down, but we gotta burn

1772
01:01:19,804 --> 01:01:21,244
a lot of it down. We gotta burn

1773
01:01:21,244 --> 01:01:23,404
the weeds out. If anything, I just wish

1774
01:01:23,404 --> 01:01:23,984
I had

1775
01:01:24,364 --> 01:01:25,300
the wisdom

1776
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:27,840
back then. Because if I was gonna go

1777
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,780
through it, I wish I would have known

1778
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,019
Mhmm. Yeah. How to handle it

1779
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:35,585
better. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't being tortured

1780
01:01:35,804 --> 01:01:37,485
through the process with the

1781
01:01:38,125 --> 01:01:39,485
Yeah. And I didn't know what it was.

1782
01:01:39,485 --> 01:01:41,324
I didn't know that he was an alcoholic.

1783
01:01:41,324 --> 01:01:42,764
So I wish I would have known because

1784
01:01:42,764 --> 01:01:44,139
then I could have armed myself

1785
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:45,579
instead of

1786
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:47,420
internalizing,

1787
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,619
you know, all the BS that he said.

1788
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:51,900
And to me,

1789
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:54,125
I could have been like, okay. Well, that's

1790
01:01:54,125 --> 01:01:56,125
not that's the alcohol talking. Like, that's

1791
01:01:56,525 --> 01:01:58,045
but I didn't know. Mhmm. I wish I

1792
01:01:58,045 --> 01:02:00,050
would have found echos right after I I

1793
01:02:00,050 --> 01:02:02,630
found I used alcohol. Same. Yeah. Same. Same.

1794
01:02:03,409 --> 01:02:05,489
Two and a half years later Mhmm. That

1795
01:02:05,489 --> 01:02:06,150
I finally

1796
01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:09,144
found echoes. Yeah. And I mean, I just

1797
01:02:09,144 --> 01:02:11,224
think now, man. Because through all the hell

1798
01:02:11,224 --> 01:02:12,265
that I went through, it would have been

1799
01:02:12,265 --> 01:02:14,505
so nice to have. I I swept everything.

1800
01:02:14,505 --> 01:02:15,864
My parents were the only people I told

1801
01:02:15,864 --> 01:02:16,760
and I didn't tell them

1802
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,320
half of it. See, I told everybody who

1803
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:19,980
would listen

1804
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,139
and that was, like,

1805
01:02:22,679 --> 01:02:25,079
not the best choice because you you wanna

1806
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:27,765
talk about, like, your friends liking your husband.

1807
01:02:27,985 --> 01:02:30,945
Mhmm. I mean, that kind of shaded their

1808
01:02:30,945 --> 01:02:31,445
opinion,

1809
01:02:31,905 --> 01:02:32,804
you know. And

1810
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:35,659
I feel like now that I have echoes,

1811
01:02:36,359 --> 01:02:38,760
I'm like and my other friends ask me,

1812
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,839
like, oh, how's he doing? And I'll be

1813
01:02:40,839 --> 01:02:41,339
like,

1814
01:02:41,639 --> 01:02:42,925
I'll be like, yeah. He's doing really good

1815
01:02:42,925 --> 01:02:44,945
because he is doing pretty good. You know?

1816
01:02:45,085 --> 01:02:47,244
And And nothing else. But but, yeah, but

1817
01:02:47,244 --> 01:02:49,085
I don't wanna, like, talk about it. You

1818
01:02:49,085 --> 01:02:50,204
know? Yeah.

1819
01:02:50,844 --> 01:02:51,344
Yeah.

1820
01:02:51,965 --> 01:02:53,950
Yeah. That's dangerous dangerous because your friends have

1821
01:02:53,950 --> 01:02:56,510
only your best interest in mind. Right. And

1822
01:02:56,510 --> 01:02:57,410
so they're gonna

1823
01:02:58,030 --> 01:02:59,789
I think this is just a knee jerk

1824
01:02:59,789 --> 01:03:02,110
reaction. Well, why don't you leave them? Because

1825
01:03:02,110 --> 01:03:03,534
they want you to be okay, and they

1826
01:03:03,534 --> 01:03:05,135
don't want you to have to go through

1827
01:03:05,135 --> 01:03:07,054
the hard. Whereas when you meet people who've

1828
01:03:07,054 --> 01:03:08,114
been through it, then

1829
01:03:08,494 --> 01:03:11,490
they've got, they understand that both both ways

1830
01:03:11,490 --> 01:03:13,349
are hard Right. For sure.

1831
01:03:14,849 --> 01:03:16,450
I wish I'd even known what I was

1832
01:03:16,690 --> 01:03:18,769
known what I was doing. Not not only

1833
01:03:18,769 --> 01:03:19,510
known that,

1834
01:03:21,284 --> 01:03:23,284
you know, my coming from my grandfather who

1835
01:03:23,284 --> 01:03:24,804
had been an alcoholic, so I knew some

1836
01:03:24,804 --> 01:03:26,724
of the signs, but I didn't even know

1837
01:03:26,724 --> 01:03:28,905
he was drinking. You know, it's only in

1838
01:03:29,284 --> 01:03:31,030
10 years hindsight I can look back at

1839
01:03:31,030 --> 01:03:33,430
some of the crazy fights we had and

1840
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:35,269
be like Yes. Oh, he must have had

1841
01:03:35,269 --> 01:03:37,590
a 5th of vodka. Right. Yeah. You know?

1842
01:03:37,590 --> 01:03:39,954
When that happened because it was so nonsensical.

1843
01:03:40,414 --> 01:03:42,014
But at the time, I was blaming myself

1844
01:03:42,014 --> 01:03:44,094
and thinking something was wrong with me. Yeah.

1845
01:03:44,094 --> 01:03:46,894
Exactly. Because we drank together, like, openly, he

1846
01:03:46,894 --> 01:03:48,800
would have, like he would leave half he

1847
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,239
would leave a beer can in the fridge

1848
01:03:50,239 --> 01:03:51,760
almost every night. He would he started buying

1849
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,119
those cans of beer, which I mean, in

1850
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:55,280
hindsight, I know why he bought the screw

1851
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,019
top cans

1852
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,337
and because he probably wasn't drinking beer out

1853
01:03:58,337 --> 01:03:59,915
of it. But I would always see it

1854
01:03:59,915 --> 01:04:01,494
in the fridge and like, oh, he's not

1855
01:04:01,494 --> 01:04:03,072
even drinking a full beer, you know? And

1856
01:04:03,072 --> 01:04:04,651
thinking, wow, that's that's not bad. So why

1857
01:04:04,651 --> 01:04:06,230
the hell is he, you know, passed out

1858
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:07,909
on the couch and like he must be

1859
01:04:07,909 --> 01:04:09,349
really tired. I mean, god, I was so

1860
01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:09,849
sympathetic.

1861
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:12,489
And it's like

1862
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:14,804
one of the reasons I really wish I

1863
01:04:14,804 --> 01:04:15,304
had

1864
01:04:16,005 --> 01:04:17,605
as soon as I had read the first

1865
01:04:17,605 --> 01:04:19,684
blog post, I had, you know, contacted you

1866
01:04:19,684 --> 01:04:20,984
guys and joined Echos

1867
01:04:21,445 --> 01:04:22,425
because I

1868
01:04:23,045 --> 01:04:24,809
went through about a year or 2 of

1869
01:04:24,809 --> 01:04:26,829
people just telling me I was enabling him.

1870
01:04:27,289 --> 01:04:29,690
And I was like, it wasn't enabling him.

1871
01:04:29,690 --> 01:04:31,449
I didn't know what was going on. There

1872
01:04:31,449 --> 01:04:32,675
were a couple of years that I thought

1873
01:04:32,675 --> 01:04:34,434
a lot of his behavior was because he

1874
01:04:34,434 --> 01:04:36,695
was having a bad reaction to anxiety medication.

1875
01:04:37,155 --> 01:04:37,655
Mhmm.

1876
01:04:39,315 --> 01:04:40,949
Because I had no idea that that the

1877
01:04:40,949 --> 01:04:42,949
vodka was hidden down in the garage. Right?

1878
01:04:42,949 --> 01:04:43,449
Yep.

1879
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:47,210
Yeah. Identifying what you're dealing with is Yeah.

1880
01:04:47,617 --> 01:04:48,945
A huge part of it.

1881
01:04:49,885 --> 01:04:52,765
You just mentioned, Nicole, that you guys drink

1882
01:04:52,765 --> 01:04:53,265
together.

1883
01:04:54,525 --> 01:04:56,130
One of the things that we hear a

1884
01:04:56,130 --> 01:04:57,969
lot, one of the things that I certainly

1885
01:04:57,969 --> 01:05:00,150
felt and I expressed to Sherry

1886
01:05:00,610 --> 01:05:03,269
was when we talk about needs changing,

1887
01:05:03,730 --> 01:05:05,485
I said, I'm not the one that changed.

1888
01:05:05,485 --> 01:05:07,505
We were drinking together when we met.

1889
01:05:07,885 --> 01:05:09,965
You're the one that's changed. What's wrong with

1890
01:05:09,965 --> 01:05:10,465
you?

1891
01:05:10,844 --> 01:05:11,344
Have

1892
01:05:11,644 --> 01:05:14,909
you all experienced that? And did that give

1893
01:05:14,909 --> 01:05:17,630
you pause? Or were you, like, hell yeah.

1894
01:05:17,630 --> 01:05:19,469
I've changed because it's called maturity, and it's,

1895
01:05:19,469 --> 01:05:21,245
like, something you're supposed to do. How did

1896
01:05:21,245 --> 01:05:21,934
you handle that? Did you

1897
01:05:22,574 --> 01:05:24,015
did you get that? You're the one that

1898
01:05:24,015 --> 01:05:25,614
changed. You're the one that changed. I'm not

1899
01:05:25,614 --> 01:05:27,375
the problem. I didn't get that. But we

1900
01:05:27,454 --> 01:05:29,055
I mean, we met when we were, you

1901
01:05:29,055 --> 01:05:31,139
know, not even able to drink yet, and

1902
01:05:31,139 --> 01:05:31,639
so,

1903
01:05:32,739 --> 01:05:33,319
or legally.

1904
01:05:33,619 --> 01:05:34,119
But,

1905
01:05:34,980 --> 01:05:36,819
you know, we did a little bit of

1906
01:05:36,819 --> 01:05:38,679
partying in college, but never

1907
01:05:39,059 --> 01:05:39,474
excessive. Mhmm.

1908
01:05:40,434 --> 01:05:40,934
And

1909
01:05:41,394 --> 01:05:41,894
then

1910
01:05:42,434 --> 01:05:44,215
started a family and it was like

1911
01:05:44,755 --> 01:05:46,515
a couple of drinks or maybe a drink

1912
01:05:46,515 --> 01:05:48,869
a night, but it was not drinking to

1913
01:05:48,869 --> 01:05:51,130
excess with the exception of, like,

1914
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:52,489
the occasional

1915
01:05:53,030 --> 01:05:54,730
wedding or something like that.

1916
01:05:55,265 --> 01:05:56,945
I never would because I was always pregnant

1917
01:05:56,945 --> 01:05:58,545
or had a baby or taking care of

1918
01:05:58,545 --> 01:05:59,445
somebody, but

1919
01:05:59,985 --> 01:06:00,485
the

1920
01:06:01,265 --> 01:06:02,644
his really gradually

1921
01:06:03,265 --> 01:06:05,460
increased. You know, it was definitely the frog

1922
01:06:05,460 --> 01:06:07,400
in boiling water situation. Okay.

1923
01:06:08,659 --> 01:06:10,980
But no. He never accused me of changing

1924
01:06:10,980 --> 01:06:11,480
because

1925
01:06:11,859 --> 01:06:13,465
we never, like, you and Sherry have talked

1926
01:06:13,465 --> 01:06:14,824
about, you guys both used to drink a

1927
01:06:14,824 --> 01:06:16,824
lot together and we we never did a

1928
01:06:16,824 --> 01:06:17,644
lot together.

1929
01:06:18,265 --> 01:06:19,724
It was just kind of like

1930
01:06:20,985 --> 01:06:22,289
a glass of wine with dinner.

1931
01:06:23,150 --> 01:06:24,769
Mhmm. My husband always noticed

1932
01:06:25,150 --> 01:06:27,309
when I started to decline and he would

1933
01:06:27,309 --> 01:06:28,609
always encourage me,

1934
01:06:29,389 --> 01:06:30,894
but it would make me tired. And I'm

1935
01:06:30,894 --> 01:06:32,594
like, I don't wanna go to bed.

1936
01:06:33,775 --> 01:06:36,675
But what he did accuse me of changes

1937
01:06:36,735 --> 01:06:38,750
when he started to notice that I

1938
01:06:39,550 --> 01:06:42,429
was still acting myself around my friends and

1939
01:06:42,429 --> 01:06:44,750
my family, but I wasn't acting myself around

1940
01:06:44,750 --> 01:06:47,015
him. And he would always tell me, why

1941
01:06:47,015 --> 01:06:47,575
can't I get the fun Nikki? And I'm

1942
01:06:47,575 --> 01:06:50,076
like, because you destroyed that girl, you know,

1943
01:06:50,076 --> 01:06:51,594
but, like, they didn't and so they

1944
01:06:51,974 --> 01:06:53,454
can still get her and he could not

1945
01:06:53,454 --> 01:06:54,934
for the life of him understand how I

1946
01:06:54,934 --> 01:06:57,319
could be that way. He could not for

1947
01:06:57,319 --> 01:06:58,619
the life of him understand

1948
01:06:59,239 --> 01:07:01,420
how I could be that way with them

1949
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,454
but not him. This was after

1950
01:07:04,175 --> 01:07:05,934
he was sober? Or why are you still

1951
01:07:05,934 --> 01:07:08,414
drinking or both? I mean, it was probably

1952
01:07:08,414 --> 01:07:11,055
both because I had started the process of,

1953
01:07:11,055 --> 01:07:11,555
like,

1954
01:07:11,934 --> 01:07:12,835
already being

1955
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:14,539
disgusted with behavior,

1956
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:17,559
before even in the I didn't know he

1957
01:07:17,559 --> 01:07:19,400
was drinking. So I didn't know what was

1958
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,079
happening. I just know I didn't like it.

1959
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:22,700
Yeah. And so I was already

1960
01:07:24,114 --> 01:07:26,994
very well detached from that and just like

1961
01:07:27,074 --> 01:07:28,515
because I don't want anything to do with

1962
01:07:28,515 --> 01:07:29,929
it. I don't like you right now. How

1963
01:07:30,010 --> 01:07:31,769
can I act myself around you when I

1964
01:07:31,769 --> 01:07:33,069
don't like you right

1965
01:07:33,690 --> 01:07:35,530
now? But he had he struggled big time

1966
01:07:35,530 --> 01:07:37,369
with that and he would get super jealous

1967
01:07:37,369 --> 01:07:39,054
anytime I'd go out with people,

1968
01:07:39,594 --> 01:07:40,815
and it was a big thing.

1969
01:07:41,194 --> 01:07:43,054
And my husband knew what he would say,

1970
01:07:43,194 --> 01:07:45,114
we'd be all laughing, doing something with the

1971
01:07:45,114 --> 01:07:46,609
kids or whatever, and he'd come in the

1972
01:07:46,609 --> 01:07:48,289
room and we'd go, kinda just stop. Yeah.

1973
01:07:48,289 --> 01:07:50,289
It was because Yes. Because we didn't know

1974
01:07:50,289 --> 01:07:51,650
what was gonna what we what was gonna

1975
01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:53,650
happen. What was Ruthie walking in the room?

1976
01:07:53,650 --> 01:07:55,175
Was he gonna scream at us for be

1977
01:07:55,255 --> 01:07:57,255
no. Whatever. You should be out mowing the

1978
01:07:57,255 --> 01:08:00,074
lawn. You should be whatever or you know?

1979
01:08:00,215 --> 01:08:01,815
So what was gonna happen? So, yeah, of

1980
01:08:01,815 --> 01:08:03,659
course, we, like, just all kinda clammed up

1981
01:08:03,659 --> 01:08:04,480
and just to

1982
01:08:04,859 --> 01:08:06,780
take the temperature before we could do it.

1983
01:08:06,780 --> 01:08:08,699
But, yeah, he always would complain about kinda

1984
01:08:08,699 --> 01:08:09,715
that too. Like, why can't

1985
01:08:10,675 --> 01:08:12,434
you have fun around me? Well, because you're

1986
01:08:12,434 --> 01:08:14,434
not very much fun anymore. So That's really

1987
01:08:14,434 --> 01:08:16,354
hard to come back from too. Yeah. Still

1988
01:08:16,354 --> 01:08:17,255
not, like,

1989
01:08:17,954 --> 01:08:19,015
as relaxed

1990
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:20,760
with him as I am with my kids.

1991
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:22,439
Like, I could dance and sing and whatever

1992
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,280
for my kids, but if he's there, I

1993
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:25,979
can. Yeah. Still can.

1994
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:27,945
Yeah. He used to tell me I would

1995
01:08:27,945 --> 01:08:29,864
sing all the time, and I can't even

1996
01:08:29,864 --> 01:08:32,505
do that in the car anymore. Mhmm. Like

1997
01:08:32,585 --> 01:08:35,305
Yeah. Isn't that funny? Like, the stupidest thing?

1998
01:08:35,305 --> 01:08:37,260
Yeah. Like Yeah. That's a kind of But

1999
01:08:37,260 --> 01:08:39,579
you both say and it's like, it's a

2000
01:08:39,579 --> 01:08:41,920
safety piece. Mhmm. Mhmm.

2001
01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:44,055
Mine was more I got yelled at just

2002
01:08:44,055 --> 01:08:44,774
because I would

2003
01:08:45,494 --> 01:08:46,935
he would get angry with me because I

2004
01:08:46,935 --> 01:08:48,234
wouldn't let him help me.

2005
01:08:50,215 --> 01:08:51,650
Then Yeah. I get a little little bit

2006
01:08:51,650 --> 01:08:52,381
of that with cooking because, you know That

2007
01:08:52,381 --> 01:08:53,090
help was but the help was always, like,

2008
01:08:53,090 --> 01:08:53,590
offered

2009
01:08:54,369 --> 01:08:54,544
after I was already 3 quarters of the

2010
01:08:54,544 --> 01:08:55,909
way do done doing it. Right.

2011
01:08:59,734 --> 01:09:01,975
Will you let me help you with something?

2012
01:09:01,975 --> 01:09:04,774
You know, it wasn't actually until years into

2013
01:09:04,774 --> 01:09:07,594
this that I was like, Yeah, you know,

2014
01:09:07,734 --> 01:09:09,680
I would explain to it even then, like,

2015
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,359
I'm just kinda used to doing everything for

2016
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:13,359
myself Sure. At the at the beginning of

2017
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:15,359
our relationship, and then, you know, towards the

2018
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:16,579
end, it was kinda like, well,

2019
01:09:17,039 --> 01:09:19,404
I'm always doing it, you know, myself.

2020
01:09:22,744 --> 01:09:25,064
And isn't it funny then how they even

2021
01:09:25,064 --> 01:09:25,564
question

2022
01:09:27,139 --> 01:09:27,639
why

2023
01:09:28,340 --> 01:09:31,300
we say we don't need them anymore because

2024
01:09:31,300 --> 01:09:33,619
we proved to ourselves that we can do

2025
01:09:33,619 --> 01:09:35,154
it all on our own. Mhmm.

2026
01:09:37,054 --> 01:09:40,114
Right. Kristen, you talked earlier about an event

2027
01:09:40,574 --> 01:09:43,234
that you and your partner went to and

2028
01:09:43,694 --> 01:09:45,239
you were able to relax. You were able

2029
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:46,060
to have fun,

2030
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:47,979
but it wasn't necessarily

2031
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:49,340
because

2032
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,640
he was there and you felt connected to

2033
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:52,140
him.

2034
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,135
It was because he wasn't

2035
01:09:54,835 --> 01:09:55,814
making you,

2036
01:09:56,835 --> 01:09:59,154
you know, walk on eggshells. And Yeah. So

2037
01:09:59,154 --> 01:10:02,060
it was it was less about his companionship

2038
01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:03,020
and more

2039
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,800
about him not getting in the way of

2040
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:07,960
your peace and contentment. Did I Yeah. Did

2041
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:09,260
I hear that right? Exactly.

2042
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:10,060
Yeah.

2043
01:10:11,704 --> 01:10:13,704
So let me ask the whole group kind

2044
01:10:13,704 --> 01:10:15,305
of kind of with that thought in mind.

2045
01:10:17,145 --> 01:10:19,465
When we get into these romantic partnerships, one

2046
01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:22,010
of the reasons is for lifelong potentially

2047
01:10:22,630 --> 01:10:23,850
lifelong companionship.

2048
01:10:24,869 --> 01:10:25,369
When

2049
01:10:25,829 --> 01:10:27,215
there are, you know,

2050
01:10:27,774 --> 01:10:28,835
traumatic experiences

2051
01:10:29,295 --> 01:10:29,795
and,

2052
01:10:30,414 --> 01:10:32,414
it all spins out of control and doesn't

2053
01:10:32,414 --> 01:10:34,354
go the way you want it to,

2054
01:10:34,734 --> 01:10:36,810
we still we're still humans, and we still

2055
01:10:36,810 --> 01:10:38,970
have needs for companionship. Do you found that

2056
01:10:38,970 --> 01:10:41,689
you have found all of you found other

2057
01:10:41,689 --> 01:10:42,189
outlets

2058
01:10:42,569 --> 01:10:44,030
for your need for companionship

2059
01:10:44,649 --> 01:10:46,774
and that you don't necessarily rely on your

2060
01:10:46,774 --> 01:10:49,574
partner as much for that as you maybe

2061
01:10:49,574 --> 01:10:51,494
previously did or or hope that you'd be

2062
01:10:51,494 --> 01:10:51,949
able to.

2063
01:10:53,789 --> 01:10:56,909
Mhmm. That's a slippery slope. Mhmm. Yeah. Oh,

2064
01:10:56,909 --> 01:10:58,510
I was gonna say Melanie said she was

2065
01:10:58,510 --> 01:10:59,835
collecting doll dogs

2066
01:11:00,314 --> 01:11:00,875
and I they are

2067
01:11:02,314 --> 01:11:03,135
yeah. I mean,

2068
01:11:03,594 --> 01:11:05,135
I don't have kids and

2069
01:11:05,594 --> 01:11:06,074
they're

2070
01:11:06,715 --> 01:11:08,409
I I made a joke to my husband

2071
01:11:08,409 --> 01:11:10,890
the other day. Like, we're so obsessed with

2072
01:11:10,890 --> 01:11:13,069
our dogs. If we ever had a kid,

2073
01:11:13,369 --> 01:11:16,274
I would I can't imagine how much more

2074
01:11:16,274 --> 01:11:18,215
obsessed we would be with our kid.

2075
01:11:18,914 --> 01:11:19,574
Like, it's

2076
01:11:20,114 --> 01:11:22,114
like a kinda weird. I mean, we know

2077
01:11:22,114 --> 01:11:24,435
they're dogs but, you know, it's I'm a

2078
01:11:24,435 --> 01:11:25,649
prime example of that.

2079
01:11:27,250 --> 01:11:28,069
Right. I mean

2080
01:11:28,609 --> 01:11:29,109
so,

2081
01:11:29,890 --> 01:11:31,270
I mean, yeah, dogs

2082
01:11:31,810 --> 01:11:34,210
are great companions, and and I also

2083
01:11:35,225 --> 01:11:35,805
girlfriends. Right.

2084
01:11:36,185 --> 01:11:38,425
And I and I also feel like I

2085
01:11:38,425 --> 01:11:38,925
have

2086
01:11:39,945 --> 01:11:41,390
I love my husband, and I'm

2087
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:44,210
glad he's we're together and

2088
01:11:44,590 --> 01:11:46,670
whatever, but I also feel like I have

2089
01:11:46,670 --> 01:11:48,210
less of a need for companionship

2090
01:11:49,149 --> 01:11:51,445
at this point, you know, because like what

2091
01:11:51,445 --> 01:11:52,345
you guys said,

2092
01:11:52,965 --> 01:11:55,125
I realized I can do things myself, and

2093
01:11:55,125 --> 01:11:55,784
I can,

2094
01:11:56,405 --> 01:11:58,725
you know, be I can be happy alone.

2095
01:11:58,725 --> 01:11:58,989
I can

2096
01:12:00,190 --> 01:12:00,690
Yeah.

2097
01:12:01,390 --> 01:12:01,890
Yeah.

2098
01:12:02,670 --> 01:12:04,270
I have a friend I go to lunch

2099
01:12:04,270 --> 01:12:05,230
with every now and then,

2100
01:12:05,869 --> 01:12:08,005
that I never did before, not necessarily for

2101
01:12:08,005 --> 01:12:10,505
any reason. I don't know. I just didn't.

2102
01:12:10,804 --> 01:12:12,585
But also 2 of my kids are

2103
01:12:13,045 --> 01:12:13,944
adults now,

2104
01:12:14,324 --> 01:12:16,719
in their twenties. And and lots of times

2105
01:12:16,719 --> 01:12:18,479
I will talk to them not about, you

2106
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,239
know, things that I shouldn't be sharing but

2107
01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:21,619
like adult conversations

2108
01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:24,579
about work or about life or whatever that

2109
01:12:25,425 --> 01:12:28,065
I just naturally share with them. And I'm

2110
01:12:28,065 --> 01:12:29,905
not trying to withhold it from my husband,

2111
01:12:29,905 --> 01:12:31,744
but I don't have a need because he

2112
01:12:31,744 --> 01:12:33,345
used to not listen to me, you know?

2113
01:12:33,345 --> 01:12:35,130
There were so many years. Not remember. He

2114
01:12:35,130 --> 01:12:37,369
wouldn't remember. Like, he couldn't remember who I

2115
01:12:37,369 --> 01:12:39,050
worked with. I'm surprised he remembered where I

2116
01:12:39,050 --> 01:12:40,970
worked. He trained you to He trained me

2117
01:12:40,970 --> 01:12:42,250
not to talk to him about it. So

2118
01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:43,034
now when he asked.

2119
01:12:43,595 --> 01:12:45,435
Guy was bad. Very much so. Sometimes I'll

2120
01:12:45,435 --> 01:12:47,034
answer and then I'll be like, oh, crap.

2121
01:12:47,034 --> 01:12:48,314
I just gave all this detail and why

2122
01:12:48,314 --> 01:12:49,755
did I waste all this crap? Yeah. You

2123
01:12:49,755 --> 01:12:51,170
know? Yeah. Will.

2124
01:12:51,550 --> 01:12:53,469
Well, I just wrote about that though about

2125
01:12:53,469 --> 01:12:56,590
my effort and, like, the relationships that feel

2126
01:12:56,590 --> 01:12:57,969
effortless to me

2127
01:12:58,429 --> 01:13:00,395
because I've created this, like,

2128
01:13:01,014 --> 01:13:04,074
friends and family, like, type group that

2129
01:13:04,534 --> 01:13:07,675
it feels effortless to me to have that.

2130
01:13:08,135 --> 01:13:09,720
And it feels like I have to put

2131
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,140
a lot of effort into my

2132
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:13,820
relationship with him.

2133
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,360
And it's a choice that I have to

2134
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,420
make, and it's really hard. And shouldn't that

2135
01:13:19,715 --> 01:13:22,195
tiring? Shouldn't that be more effortless? Sure. Especially

2136
01:13:22,195 --> 01:13:24,114
at this point in your marriage. Yeah. Yeah.

2137
01:13:24,114 --> 01:13:24,614
Absolutely.

2138
01:13:24,994 --> 01:13:25,494
Exactly.

2139
01:13:26,435 --> 01:13:29,000
Well, it it strikes me that when I

2140
01:13:29,079 --> 01:13:31,180
watch you guys communicate with each other,

2141
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,939
the stakes aren't as high because

2142
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,159
you don't feel like there's a risk to

2143
01:13:37,159 --> 01:13:39,335
that. That. You guys have all pushed across

2144
01:13:40,114 --> 01:13:41,895
the boundary of vulnerability

2145
01:13:42,274 --> 01:13:44,435
and found a way to be honest with

2146
01:13:44,435 --> 01:13:45,574
each other. And so

2147
01:13:45,954 --> 01:13:48,179
you have companions in your life where you

2148
01:13:48,179 --> 01:13:49,719
can be honest and vulnerable

2149
01:13:50,179 --> 01:13:52,679
and you never get stung, like, ever.

2150
01:13:53,300 --> 01:13:54,039
And so,

2151
01:13:55,859 --> 01:13:58,105
the the stakes aren't as high because,

2152
01:13:58,805 --> 01:14:00,565
they're, you know, the the just the risk

2153
01:14:00,565 --> 01:14:02,164
isn't there. The fear isn't there. Is that

2154
01:14:02,324 --> 01:14:04,164
when you talk about effortless, that's what comes

2155
01:14:04,164 --> 01:14:05,789
to mind for me. They get it. Yeah.

2156
01:14:05,789 --> 01:14:07,890
They get it. It's not

2157
01:14:08,270 --> 01:14:09,890
I mean, it's not something that

2158
01:14:11,390 --> 01:14:12,835
I have to think about.

2159
01:14:13,795 --> 01:14:15,795
I feel like I have to think about

2160
01:14:15,795 --> 01:14:16,534
our conversations.

2161
01:14:17,555 --> 01:14:18,694
It's not just

2162
01:14:19,154 --> 01:14:19,654
flow.

2163
01:14:19,954 --> 01:14:21,050
Like, I feel like I

2164
01:14:21,689 --> 01:14:24,189
still tiptoe on some things, and

2165
01:14:24,569 --> 01:14:26,329
I don't have to do that with anybody

2166
01:14:26,329 --> 01:14:26,829
else.

2167
01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:29,425
And that was because of things that would

2168
01:14:29,425 --> 01:14:31,744
get hold held against me or things that

2169
01:14:31,744 --> 01:14:32,725
would get twisted,

2170
01:14:33,824 --> 01:14:35,284
or circular arguments,

2171
01:14:37,185 --> 01:14:38,050
all of that.

2172
01:14:38,849 --> 01:14:40,869
It it was exhausting and traumatizing,

2173
01:14:41,409 --> 01:14:41,909
and

2174
01:14:42,449 --> 01:14:45,625
I don't have that with anyone else. And

2175
01:14:45,625 --> 01:14:47,805
so now it's the fight of

2176
01:14:48,585 --> 01:14:50,824
we both need to have the energy level

2177
01:14:50,824 --> 01:14:52,079
to put into. I mean,

2178
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,600
we're coming up on 5 years sober, and

2179
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,000
it's finding the time and the effort to

2180
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,295
really push into the relationship that is the

2181
01:15:00,295 --> 01:15:01,755
one that's the most important.

2182
01:15:02,854 --> 01:15:05,175
Like, this is my future. This is my

2183
01:15:05,175 --> 01:15:05,675
family.

2184
01:15:06,135 --> 01:15:06,635
Like,

2185
01:15:07,175 --> 01:15:09,689
it's a big deal and we both have

2186
01:15:09,689 --> 01:15:12,090
to find some type of middle ground to

2187
01:15:12,090 --> 01:15:13,630
figure out how to do it all.

2188
01:15:14,890 --> 01:15:17,194
Well, I'm just gonna jump in and say,

2189
01:15:17,194 --> 01:15:19,114
I think for me, I had to kind

2190
01:15:19,114 --> 01:15:21,534
of because I withheld a lot from

2191
01:15:22,234 --> 01:15:23,949
a lot of people and kinda withdrew when

2192
01:15:23,949 --> 01:15:26,430
Matt was really drinking, especially after, like, I

2193
01:15:26,430 --> 01:15:28,909
got, like, answers like, just divorce him or

2194
01:15:28,909 --> 01:15:31,409
it's not my problem. Yeah. You know?

2195
01:15:31,949 --> 01:15:33,985
So I kind of, you know,

2196
01:15:34,445 --> 01:15:36,145
went into myself, but then,

2197
01:15:36,845 --> 01:15:38,524
Matt, you were always, like, a person that

2198
01:15:38,524 --> 01:15:40,284
felt like you didn't need help from anybody.

2199
01:15:40,284 --> 01:15:41,564
It was supposed to be you and I

2200
01:15:41,564 --> 01:15:43,520
conquering the world. We're doing it together. Blah

2201
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,680
blah. And I felt like just for me,

2202
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:46,340
I had

2203
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,640
the desire that I needed to have connection

2204
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,055
outside of this. I looked at it like

2205
01:15:50,055 --> 01:15:51,814
this is a relationship I'm choosing to have,

2206
01:15:51,814 --> 01:15:53,015
and I want us to be partners, and

2207
01:15:53,015 --> 01:15:54,534
I want us to be teammates, but you

2208
01:15:54,534 --> 01:15:57,015
can't be my everything. But you only wanted

2209
01:15:57,015 --> 01:15:58,739
me to be your everything.

2210
01:15:59,039 --> 01:16:01,359
And so that's why I think now I

2211
01:16:01,359 --> 01:16:03,439
look at it like it's a much healthier

2212
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:05,840
relationship because I don't have to come with

2213
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:08,074
you to come to you unless I want

2214
01:16:08,074 --> 01:16:09,755
to with every single need, but you're not

2215
01:16:09,755 --> 01:16:11,354
gonna be able to fill all those. And

2216
01:16:11,354 --> 01:16:13,914
I feel confident that you can receive that

2217
01:16:13,914 --> 01:16:14,414
information

2218
01:16:15,194 --> 01:16:16,649
and and know now

2219
01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:19,350
that you're not gonna fill all of my

2220
01:16:19,350 --> 01:16:21,369
needs. I'm gonna need to have my girlfriends.

2221
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:23,270
I'm gonna need to have my kitten time.

2222
01:16:23,270 --> 01:16:24,949
I'm gonna need my alone time. I'm gonna

2223
01:16:24,949 --> 01:16:27,164
need my snuggle my kitty cat time and

2224
01:16:27,164 --> 01:16:28,844
you're gonna be okay with it because you

2225
01:16:28,844 --> 01:16:29,664
are not,

2226
01:16:30,444 --> 01:16:31,744
you know, being

2227
01:16:32,444 --> 01:16:34,279
filled with depression and anxiety

2228
01:16:34,659 --> 01:16:36,199
and the addiction anymore,

2229
01:16:36,659 --> 01:16:38,979
but I think that's a a confidence piece

2230
01:16:38,979 --> 01:16:41,000
that had to come that I had

2231
01:16:41,460 --> 01:16:42,534
really, like,

2232
01:16:42,994 --> 01:16:44,055
been looking for.

2233
01:16:44,435 --> 01:16:46,614
And, you know, was like, you don't need

2234
01:16:47,314 --> 01:16:48,994
everything from me, and I don't need everything

2235
01:16:48,994 --> 01:16:49,654
from you.

2236
01:16:50,070 --> 01:16:50,890
And so we have

2237
01:16:51,750 --> 01:16:54,550
a much stronger bond because of our self

2238
01:16:54,550 --> 01:16:55,050
esteem.

2239
01:16:55,510 --> 01:16:57,829
And you recognizing that that it's okay for

2240
01:16:57,829 --> 01:16:59,845
me to go and get some things outside

2241
01:16:59,845 --> 01:17:00,345
of

2242
01:17:01,125 --> 01:17:02,024
the the relationship,

2243
01:17:02,645 --> 01:17:03,625
you know, for

2244
01:17:04,244 --> 01:17:05,465
support, camaraderie,

2245
01:17:05,765 --> 01:17:06,265
connection.

2246
01:17:07,045 --> 01:17:08,229
Well, I think

2247
01:17:09,090 --> 01:17:10,609
one of the things that has happened for

2248
01:17:10,609 --> 01:17:12,609
me not only as you and I, Sherry,

2249
01:17:12,609 --> 01:17:14,390
have worked on our relationship recovery,

2250
01:17:14,930 --> 01:17:15,725
but probably

2251
01:17:16,524 --> 01:17:17,505
even more so

2252
01:17:17,965 --> 01:17:20,604
as I've met all these other wonderful people

2253
01:17:20,604 --> 01:17:21,425
who are

2254
01:17:21,965 --> 01:17:23,699
have their own struggles and are coming back

2255
01:17:23,699 --> 01:17:25,960
from their own traumatic experiences,

2256
01:17:26,899 --> 01:17:29,719
and I've seen the consistency. I mean, consistency

2257
01:17:29,779 --> 01:17:31,380
was one of the needs that you all

2258
01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:31,880
shared.

2259
01:17:32,225 --> 01:17:32,725
Also

2260
01:17:33,265 --> 01:17:35,524
one of the attributes that you all share.

2261
01:17:36,225 --> 01:17:38,385
The stories are so consistent. Maybe the rock

2262
01:17:38,385 --> 01:17:40,385
bottom moment is different. Maybe the age is

2263
01:17:40,385 --> 01:17:43,039
different. Maybe how long the progression took is

2264
01:17:43,039 --> 01:17:43,539
different.

2265
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:45,699
But there's so much consistency

2266
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,739
to how it impacted you as individuals

2267
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:52,604
that it's super telling and it helps it

2268
01:17:52,604 --> 01:17:53,664
helps me honestly.

2269
01:17:54,045 --> 01:17:56,765
I think one of the biggest blessings of

2270
01:17:56,765 --> 01:17:58,945
my life through knowing all of you

2271
01:17:59,484 --> 01:18:01,860
is that I understand how precariously

2272
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:05,140
perched my relationship is. I understand how 10

2273
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,344
you know, how close I am every moment

2274
01:18:08,344 --> 01:18:10,284
of the day to losing my family.

2275
01:18:10,824 --> 01:18:13,385
And that's actually super helpful. And that's one

2276
01:18:13,385 --> 01:18:14,984
of the messages that I was hoping with

2277
01:18:14,984 --> 01:18:16,710
this with this topic about

2278
01:18:17,329 --> 01:18:19,829
needs and changing needs that we could deliver

2279
01:18:20,210 --> 01:18:21,969
to to our listeners who maybe are on

2280
01:18:21,969 --> 01:18:23,429
my side of the fence, the alcoholics,

2281
01:18:23,810 --> 01:18:25,074
and the ones that are in recovery, the

2282
01:18:25,074 --> 01:18:26,435
ones that have been years in recovery, and

2283
01:18:26,435 --> 01:18:28,994
are like, hey, I haven't drank forever. Like,

2284
01:18:28,994 --> 01:18:30,614
look at me. I'm good now.

2285
01:18:31,715 --> 01:18:34,039
I think it's important for us to understand

2286
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:35,100
that

2287
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:36,380
we don't

2288
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,720
fill the need in our partners that maybe

2289
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:41,239
we did at the beginning. Maybe we have

2290
01:18:41,239 --> 01:18:43,944
the potential potential to for our whole relationship

2291
01:18:44,005 --> 01:18:45,385
had things stayed smooth.

2292
01:18:46,244 --> 01:18:48,345
The fairy tale. Right? I mean, the

2293
01:18:48,780 --> 01:18:51,360
the prince charming bullshit, all of that. Like,

2294
01:18:51,979 --> 01:18:53,979
if you've been through what you all have

2295
01:18:53,979 --> 01:18:56,140
been through, you don't need a prince charming

2296
01:18:56,140 --> 01:18:56,640
anymore.

2297
01:18:57,234 --> 01:18:59,414
And it's really helpful to me to

2298
01:18:59,954 --> 01:19:02,034
know that I'm behind the cats on your

2299
01:19:02,034 --> 01:19:05,074
list of people you love, Sherry. I'm way

2300
01:19:05,074 --> 01:19:05,909
behind the kids.

2301
01:19:06,390 --> 01:19:08,229
Like, the kids are in a different, like,

2302
01:19:08,229 --> 01:19:10,869
stratosphere for me. Kids are probably above the

2303
01:19:10,869 --> 01:19:12,090
Cavs. Yeah.

2304
01:19:14,744 --> 01:19:17,005
Likeability wise, it's a day to day situation.

2305
01:19:18,744 --> 01:19:19,725
Love is always.

2306
01:19:20,185 --> 01:19:22,449
But when I'm when I'm making an action

2307
01:19:22,449 --> 01:19:24,210
plan and I'm just trying to proceed through

2308
01:19:24,210 --> 01:19:26,449
the day, it's really helpful for me to

2309
01:19:26,449 --> 01:19:26,949
know,

2310
01:19:27,969 --> 01:19:29,729
that the things that I maybe thought were

2311
01:19:29,729 --> 01:19:31,810
a given are not. And just because I

2312
01:19:31,810 --> 01:19:34,355
was sober for a little while doesn't change

2313
01:19:34,355 --> 01:19:36,375
that. Like, it's kind of permanent now.

2314
01:19:36,755 --> 01:19:38,775
She's figured out how to live without me

2315
01:19:38,914 --> 01:19:40,750
if she has to, and so I gotta

2316
01:19:40,750 --> 01:19:42,189
keep showing up if I wanna be a

2317
01:19:42,189 --> 01:19:44,449
part of this. I think that's really important.

2318
01:19:44,750 --> 01:19:46,909
Well, I think that's where the also that,

2319
01:19:46,909 --> 01:19:48,064
like, healing in the self,

2320
01:19:49,904 --> 01:19:52,305
like, the self discovery and the recovery piece

2321
01:19:52,305 --> 01:19:55,079
needs because I can't understand all of your

2322
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,820
situations and feelings and things you went through

2323
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:02,039
with the addiction. And so that's why you

2324
01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:03,100
need to find community

2325
01:20:03,945 --> 01:20:06,105
that can help you decipher some of that.

2326
01:20:06,105 --> 01:20:08,025
So then it's just not laying at my

2327
01:20:08,025 --> 01:20:09,164
feet and I'm supposed

2328
01:20:09,784 --> 01:20:10,925
to fix you and

2329
01:20:11,229 --> 01:20:12,989
lift you up, and we know that we

2330
01:20:12,989 --> 01:20:13,729
can't be

2331
01:20:14,270 --> 01:20:15,569
everything to each other

2332
01:20:16,510 --> 01:20:18,750
and and that it does take more than

2333
01:20:18,750 --> 01:20:21,104
just the 2 of us. So I think

2334
01:20:21,425 --> 01:20:23,345
oh, go ahead. Oh, I think that's part

2335
01:20:23,345 --> 01:20:25,125
of when I said, like, thankful

2336
01:20:25,585 --> 01:20:27,585
earlier. That's kind of part of what I

2337
01:20:27,585 --> 01:20:28,085
meant.

2338
01:20:28,569 --> 01:20:30,170
Like, I don't know that I would have

2339
01:20:30,170 --> 01:20:30,670
realized

2340
01:20:31,449 --> 01:20:33,149
what I was capable of

2341
01:20:33,609 --> 01:20:36,329
doing on my own if I hadn't gone

2342
01:20:36,329 --> 01:20:38,515
through this experience. Like I don't know if

2343
01:20:38,515 --> 01:20:39,335
I would have

2344
01:20:40,274 --> 01:20:41,814
matured in the same way

2345
01:20:42,435 --> 01:20:43,829
and become as competent

2346
01:20:44,550 --> 01:20:46,250
if I hadn't gone through this experience.

2347
01:20:46,710 --> 01:20:48,170
Would I like to go through it again?

2348
01:20:48,470 --> 01:20:49,609
No. I would not.

2349
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:50,570
But,

2350
01:20:51,030 --> 01:20:51,670
you know

2351
01:20:51,989 --> 01:20:54,295
Yeah. And you did some hard stuff Yes.

2352
01:20:54,534 --> 01:20:55,435
While you were

2353
01:20:55,735 --> 01:20:58,534
fighting through this addiction and Right. Living separate

2354
01:20:58,534 --> 01:20:59,595
and Right.

2355
01:21:01,015 --> 01:21:01,515
Really

2356
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,159
astounded yourself with what you Yes. I did.

2357
01:21:05,159 --> 01:21:06,599
And I don't know if that would have

2358
01:21:06,599 --> 01:21:07,579
happened if

2359
01:21:08,359 --> 01:21:10,520
the addiction hadn't been there. I just I

2360
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:12,119
don't know if I would have found it

2361
01:21:12,119 --> 01:21:15,295
within myself. You know? Mhmm. I don't know.

2362
01:21:15,515 --> 01:21:17,114
Well, I like I like what Matt just

2363
01:21:17,114 --> 01:21:17,854
said it out.

2364
01:21:18,314 --> 01:21:19,454
Like, his role

2365
01:21:20,555 --> 01:21:22,939
the the role that he plays in Sherry's

2366
01:21:23,399 --> 01:21:25,639
in the relationship with Sherry has changed Mhmm.

2367
01:21:25,719 --> 01:21:27,319
You know, as a result of the addiction,

2368
01:21:27,319 --> 01:21:28,679
and it's not the same role that it

2369
01:21:28,679 --> 01:21:29,854
was before. Mhmm.

2370
01:21:30,234 --> 01:21:31,195
And that's

2371
01:21:31,595 --> 01:21:33,515
well, that just made a big light bulb

2372
01:21:33,515 --> 01:21:34,574
off with me.

2373
01:21:36,289 --> 01:21:39,010
My role is not the same as it

2374
01:21:39,010 --> 01:21:39,510
was

2375
01:21:40,210 --> 01:21:42,289
before, and I'm not even sure what it

2376
01:21:42,289 --> 01:21:42,789
is.

2377
01:21:43,329 --> 01:21:46,204
So that's gonna be, you know, a discussion

2378
01:21:46,345 --> 01:21:47,805
I can have when I get home,

2379
01:21:49,385 --> 01:21:51,305
but also, you know, one of the I

2380
01:21:51,305 --> 01:21:53,039
could I can definitely name one of the

2381
01:21:53,039 --> 01:21:55,039
roles that my husband has always seen himself

2382
01:21:55,039 --> 01:21:56,020
in which was

2383
01:21:56,399 --> 01:21:56,899
protector.

2384
01:21:57,199 --> 01:21:59,520
Mhmm. You know, he's a serviceman. He's a

2385
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:00,020
protector,

2386
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:01,300
but

2387
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:03,914
after all of this, he comes roaring in

2388
01:22:03,914 --> 01:22:05,515
and wants to protect me. I'm like, I

2389
01:22:05,515 --> 01:22:07,755
need you to protect me. Exactly. I needed

2390
01:22:07,755 --> 01:22:09,609
protection from you. That's huge.

2391
01:22:10,090 --> 01:22:12,569
Yeah. For many years, it's protection. So it's

2392
01:22:12,729 --> 01:22:13,229
it

2393
01:22:13,770 --> 01:22:15,770
it it I get that it's important for

2394
01:22:15,770 --> 01:22:17,529
you to see yourself as the protector of

2395
01:22:17,529 --> 01:22:19,215
the family, but that is not at all

2396
01:22:19,215 --> 01:22:20,274
how I see you,

2397
01:22:20,895 --> 01:22:21,395
you

2398
01:22:22,015 --> 01:22:22,515
know.

2399
01:22:24,015 --> 01:22:25,954
You have different roles now. Yeah,

2400
01:22:27,055 --> 01:22:27,555
and

2401
01:22:28,255 --> 01:22:29,729
just being aware of that. And that's so

2402
01:22:29,729 --> 01:22:32,050
that's why I hope that people on on

2403
01:22:32,050 --> 01:22:34,449
my side of the alcoholic relationship who who

2404
01:22:34,449 --> 01:22:35,909
might be listening to this episode

2405
01:22:36,609 --> 01:22:38,925
don't, you know, can can kind of release

2406
01:22:39,385 --> 01:22:41,145
the instinct to say,

2407
01:22:41,944 --> 01:22:43,545
when is my wife ever gonna be over

2408
01:22:43,545 --> 01:22:45,465
this? When is she gonna when is she

2409
01:22:45,465 --> 01:22:47,300
gonna let me back in? Like, well, the

2410
01:22:47,300 --> 01:22:50,039
answer is never. Like, it's this is just

2411
01:22:50,260 --> 01:22:53,619
the we've all changed. Mhmm. And it it

2412
01:22:53,619 --> 01:22:55,554
doesn't have to be a bad thing. It

2413
01:22:55,554 --> 01:22:56,934
can be a road forward

2414
01:22:57,314 --> 01:22:59,234
if you're willing to take it. And I

2415
01:22:59,234 --> 01:23:01,494
really love, Nicole, what you said much earlier

2416
01:23:01,954 --> 01:23:03,414
when you talked about how

2417
01:23:03,780 --> 01:23:07,079
romantic partnerships, marriages, they're not they're not unconditional.

2418
01:23:07,699 --> 01:23:09,380
I think that's I think there's a lot

2419
01:23:09,380 --> 01:23:09,960
of people

2420
01:23:10,340 --> 01:23:12,225
and and people can disagree with me certainly,

2421
01:23:12,225 --> 01:23:13,945
but there's a lot of people who just

2422
01:23:13,945 --> 01:23:16,024
think that because of those wedding vows we

2423
01:23:16,024 --> 01:23:18,425
talked about. It's just that chemistry that makes

2424
01:23:18,425 --> 01:23:20,604
you a little crazy in the beginning. Right.

2425
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:23,680
But it wears off. Yeah. And then you're

2426
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,840
left with what I believe is the most

2427
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,960
conditional love and the most conditional relationship there

2428
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:30,774
is. It's this partnership that depends

2429
01:23:31,234 --> 01:23:32,454
on 2 people to be,

2430
01:23:32,994 --> 01:23:34,595
pulling their way and one one of them

2431
01:23:34,595 --> 01:23:36,994
stops pulling their way. Trustworthy and faithful and

2432
01:23:36,994 --> 01:23:40,159
consistent and secure and and when that goes

2433
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:41,380
away Yeah.

2434
01:23:42,159 --> 01:23:43,699
And the ability to dream.

2435
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:46,079
I did not see that coming, Ellie. I

2436
01:23:46,079 --> 01:23:48,100
love that. I love that you added that.

2437
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:49,185
Thank you very

2438
01:23:50,064 --> 01:23:51,604
much. This has been a great conversation.

2439
01:23:52,145 --> 01:23:53,845
I think what we should do now is

2440
01:23:54,145 --> 01:23:56,199
pull that microphone out of y'all's faces

2441
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:05,640
Intoxicated podcast, and thank you for being here

2442
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:06,685
in rest of it. Thanks for being on

2443
01:24:06,685 --> 01:24:08,845
the intoxicated podcast, and thank you for being

2444
01:24:08,845 --> 01:24:10,925
here in the mountains with us for this

2445
01:24:10,925 --> 01:24:13,524
weekend. Thanks. Love you all. Thank you. Thank

2446
01:24:13,524 --> 01:24:15,189
you. Ice cream. Right? Thank you. You have

2447
01:24:15,189 --> 01:24:15,689
ice

2448
01:24:17,550 --> 01:24:18,050
cream.

2449
01:24:19,909 --> 01:24:22,045
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these

2450
01:24:22,204 --> 01:24:23,024
three resources.

2451
01:24:23,645 --> 01:24:25,725
If you love or loved an alcoholic, we

2452
01:24:25,725 --> 01:24:27,804
offer support and connection in our Echoes of

2453
01:24:27,804 --> 01:24:30,319
Recovery group. Check us out at echoes of

2454
01:24:30,319 --> 01:24:30,819
recovery.org.

2455
01:24:32,319 --> 01:24:34,560
If you are a high functioning alcoholic seeking

2456
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,739
methods and connection in early sobriety,

2457
01:24:37,359 --> 01:24:37,987
we're ready for you at shoutsobriety.org. No matter

2458
01:24:37,987 --> 01:24:38,319
who you are, there's something for you in

2459
01:24:38,319 --> 01:24:38,819
our

2460
01:24:39,555 --> 01:24:40,055
sobriety.org.

2461
01:24:40,595 --> 01:24:42,515
No matter who you are, there's something for

2462
01:24:42,515 --> 01:24:45,315
you in our book. Sober Evolution, evolve into

2463
01:24:45,315 --> 01:24:48,354
sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage. Go to

2464
01:24:48,354 --> 01:24:49,440
sober revolution.org.

2465
01:24:50,539 --> 01:24:52,960
For my wife, Sherry Salas, I'm Matt Salas.

2466
01:24:53,180 --> 01:24:54,800
Thanks for listening to the Untoxicated

2467
01:24:55,180 --> 01:24:55,680
podcast.