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Welcome to the intoxicated

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podcast.

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Well, I'm Sherry S, and that was my

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husband Matt. We have questions about the impact

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of alcohol and addiction on relationships. If you

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have those kinds of questions to you're in

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the right place, Here we go.

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I was thinking about something the other day,

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Sherry.

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We have had a lot of summer events

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it being middle of the summer now

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without alcohol, either,

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we were the only ones not consuming or

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just an event that was alcohol free.

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And,

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like, I I feel like this is the

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first summer

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where I don't miss it. Like, I can

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do in a whole event and not even

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notice that there's no alcohol or not even

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notice

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that other people are drinking and I'm not.

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Like, it's not even a thing anymore

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but it feels pretty cool. Have you noticed

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that at all? I have. Well,

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I thought this was pretty cool. We did

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host a party.

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And it was at our house, just a

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little backyard kind of barbecue gathering.

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And 1 of the people

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brought over, like, a travel water bottle, you

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know, like a insulated water bottle.

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And they said, oh, I put a little

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wine in here You gonna be upset if

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I drink wine and I was like, no.

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And then

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I noticed it was sitting in or inside

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the house, like the whole time. And I

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asked them. I said did you

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did you want a different container for it

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after I realized it I, like, no. I'm

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just not even interested in drinking. So I

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think because our whole environment was alcohol free

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and were still having a good time,

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even though there were people there that would

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drink if drinks were available. Yeah. I think

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they felt comfortable

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not drinking. I've never understood those people that

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can take it or leave it. I... Yeah.

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And I brought 1 in a thermos.

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It would have been gone in the dry.

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Way. That's right.

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But so that part just for that person's

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sake was pretty cool. Yeah. But I noticed

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that too.

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And and. We had a good time that

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night. And we stayed we had a great

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time. Yeah. We've we have hosted a couple

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of events. We had a daughter who graduated

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college, so that's 1 of the

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reasons that we've hosted a couple of events

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where there's no alcohol and it really wasn't

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missed it. It's only like in hindsight that

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I'm like, oh,

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Like, well, for for instance, 1 of those

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college

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graduation kind of events

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was at her college. The day graduation and.

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So there were probably... I don't know throughout

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the day. Open house style 30 or so

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college graduates that came over, and no 1

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said, you know, where's the beer cooler

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Where's the wine? Yeah. Nobody even seem to

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care. Yeah actually really jealous of college age

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kids. But it's because they don't seem to

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care.

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About alcohol the way, our

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age, us jen ers. Mh cared about it

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at that you know, stage. And I don't

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honestly think that they just... I mean, it's

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entirely possible that our daughter told them a

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little bit about our situation, and they were

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like, oh, you know, this is Katherine the

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1 with a drunk dad, so we can't

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drink around him, but it didn't seem that

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way. It didn't seem like it. It didn't

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seem like they were hurrying away, like, oh,

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Right. This the so party. Let's let's high...

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Tail it to the the 1 where we

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can get get our drink on. Yeah. That's

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definitely how would have been in our day.

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Yeah. Because I think like, we kind of

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wrapped it up around, like, 7 or something,

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7PM. We kind of... That's what she said.

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Because there were other people in town. And

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people that were a little bit more local

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or whatever that we're hosting. And so like

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you said, it was open house coming and

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going. But... Yeah. I didn't feel like people

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that came even early were hurrying to get

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away. Yeah.

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I sure wish they would have eaten a

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lot more though.

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You made a heck of a spread.

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Anyone who ever gets invited to something where

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you're preparing the food, they should come with

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an empty stomach. That's all I'm saying. Because

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it is going or May.

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We're also speaking of Gourmet We went camping.

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Mh. And no,

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you know... There was shortage of food there.

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There. Yeah. But, you know, that's the kind

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thing that, like, in early... And when I

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say early sobriety, I mean, the first few

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years,

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certainly, maybe by the third year of sobriety,

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I wouldn't have been, like,

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dealing with temptation to drink on a camping

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trip, but I would still think about it.

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Probably several times during the day. Like, you're

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sitting by the campfire fire, and

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man, wish I had something to drink right

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now. Mh. I don't do that anymore, but,

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boy, I kinda miss it.

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And just

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just so interesting to me how the brain

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works how that

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subconscious portion of the brain and the part

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that where the triggers come from, Right, the

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part where, oh, here is an event

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that I've done many times in the past,

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and every time I did in the past,

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there was alcohol involved so where's the alcohol?

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Like, you know, for people who are in

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new sobriety

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grilling out for in instance. I know I

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basically had to stop grilling for a while.

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It was so triggering. Mh. And

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then I slowly got back into grilling, and,

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you know, still kind of

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thought about alcohol while I was grilling and

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now it's to the point where it just

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doesn't even enter my mind and that's such

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a blessing.

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But it's a

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it's a kind of,

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not a warning.

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It's an example of how long

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recovery takes

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you know, not to get over the hump

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of, oh my god, I might

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I might be forced to drink because the

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craving is so strong. I mean, that know,

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maybe that's a year or so.

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But the lingering thoughts go on for years

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and years until you're sitting there at year

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3 or your 4 thinking... Oh my god.

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If I'm still thinking about alcohol. I'm just

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gonna think about it for the rest of

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my life. But that's not true.

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Just give it that a little more time.

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I'm 7 and a half years sober.

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And sometime in the last year or 2,

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it, like, the desire, any kind of thought

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about alcohol has pretty much gone away.

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I mean, I... Let me be clear about

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this. I can in a conscious state. I

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can say listen. What would it be like

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to drink

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whiskey on ice.

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From now until

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midnight tonight,

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you know? And I can think oh, that

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would feel really good.

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I don't mean to make it sound like,

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like I'm cured or something because I'm not.

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I can still think about

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drinking alcohol on a Saturday afternoon gonna beer

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on a Saturday afternoon in the sun and

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just,

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you know,

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laying back in the adi chair and soaking

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up the sun and drinking a 12 pack

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of beer, and that still sounds better than

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most things I can think of.

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But it... I'm not just trigger to think

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about that

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without sitting down on a conscious level and

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concentrating on it. I can do pretty much

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anything there is do

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without alcohol ever entering my mind.

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Yeah. And that's a pretty big blessing.

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Those parties camping,

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we had retreats

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with our of recovery group and with our

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marriage evolution group.

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In the recent past,

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whether they're just day treats where

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we see folks for just during the daylight

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hours or but the longer sleep over retreats

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that last long weekend,

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and

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it's not there. I don't think about it.

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I go the entire event out thinking about

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it once. And I have to consciously think

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back on it. And they're fun. There's no

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shortage of fun, do you think?

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For lack of alcohol? Yeah. Absolutely. No shortage

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of fun. Fourth of July, we went to

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a parade and then we went to fireworks.

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Again, just never never came up.

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We've been to a couple of small concerts.

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Where

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I can't even remember necessarily if people were

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drinking,

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but I know

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we weren't. Beer garden. Yeah, or there were,

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you know, like, tents. So I'm sure they're

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were, but we just weren't really paying attention

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because we were enjoying the company them music.

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And sporting events, major league baseball game and

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college soccer and,

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yeah. I know they're beer served it both

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of those, but

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That's the thing.

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In sobriety, I used to... Even when I

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didn't... Like I said, feel cravings for drink

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to drink and I knew I was gonna

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make it through the event without and I

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wasn't

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worried.

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You know, that, oh, is this gonna be

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too much. Like I was over that hump,

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but I still would notice people drinking. I

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would look around and see who was drinking

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and who wasn't. Mh. And that's all gone.

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What a blessing. And 1 of the things

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that makes it easier.

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1 of the highlights of the summer beverage

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wise has been that alcohol free, Sang,

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recipe that you worked out. Oh, yeah. That's

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good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. They turned out pretty

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much.

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I used... I made, like, hi tea. It's

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a tart

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flower,

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that's kind of Indian and mediterranean.

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And I made a, like, a concentrate, and

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then

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use some stone fruits

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chopped up,

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and I may... So like trauma?

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Why use plum and cherries and

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nectar,

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I think,

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Yeah. Yeah. And then

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you know, because that goes in the bottom

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of Ingredient, and then Pomegranate at juice, and

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then you could serve it on ice if

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you wanted it, like, to kinda strong Or

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and lots of that own fruit was just

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floating in the pitcher. So... Yeah. I mean,

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it weighs at the bottom, but it adds

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a lot, and then there's, like, you put

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little touch of, like, honey and water and

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lemon zest, but it was really

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really easy and, like, we added some sparkling

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water to it

269
00:09:37,652 --> 00:09:39,805
to kind of lighten it up because, I

270
00:09:39,805 --> 00:09:42,038
mean, I liked San when we drank out

271
00:09:42,038 --> 00:09:43,634
when we drank out alcohol, but that was

272
00:09:43,634 --> 00:09:44,272
a, like,

273
00:09:45,084 --> 00:09:47,868
a small portion because it's so much sugar

274
00:09:47,868 --> 00:09:48,425
from the fruit.

275
00:09:49,221 --> 00:09:50,892
That it just, you know, hangover over hell.

276
00:09:51,051 --> 00:09:53,930
And got it. Yeah. I loved it, and

277
00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:56,555
it wasn't that, like, it felt like a

278
00:09:56,555 --> 00:09:59,235
replacement for alcohol, but there was a lot

279
00:09:59,433 --> 00:10:01,574
going on, and it was, you know, it

280
00:10:01,574 --> 00:10:02,843
was... You know, I drink a lot of

281
00:10:02,843 --> 00:10:04,825
soda water, sometimes soda water would lime.

282
00:10:05,460 --> 00:10:06,966
So it was weighed different than that. It

283
00:10:06,966 --> 00:10:07,179
was

284
00:10:08,012 --> 00:10:09,940
there was a lot going on, and it

285
00:10:10,154 --> 00:10:12,613
tasted special. It was delicious. Yeah. Well, done,

286
00:10:12,772 --> 00:10:13,486
Sherry. Thanks.

287
00:10:15,333 --> 00:10:16,792
Let's remind folks

288
00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:18,150
that

289
00:10:18,929 --> 00:10:19,888
later this week,

290
00:10:20,527 --> 00:10:22,605
this is our last podcast for July.

291
00:10:23,572 --> 00:10:26,190
That's being released. And on August first,

292
00:10:26,825 --> 00:10:29,205
we're having a q and A session, information

293
00:10:29,205 --> 00:10:32,414
in q and session about our echoes of

294
00:10:32,414 --> 00:10:34,654
recovery program, our shout sobriety program,

295
00:10:35,134 --> 00:10:36,735
and our marriage evolution program.

296
00:10:37,709 --> 00:10:39,387
So if you have been on the fence

297
00:10:39,387 --> 00:10:40,825
if you've been listening to the podcast for

298
00:10:40,825 --> 00:10:42,184
a while and you thought, man,

299
00:10:43,063 --> 00:10:45,300
maybe maybe that's my tribe. Maybe it's not...

300
00:10:45,620 --> 00:10:46,271
I don't know.

301
00:10:47,143 --> 00:10:48,727
I don't know if I wanna go through

302
00:10:48,727 --> 00:10:51,896
the hassle of enrolling and and figuring out

303
00:10:51,896 --> 00:10:52,768
how to join this group.

304
00:10:53,419 --> 00:10:56,136
If if you wanna take, like, a baby

305
00:10:56,136 --> 00:10:59,413
step with no commitment necessary, you can join

306
00:10:59,413 --> 00:11:01,970
us for an information and question and answer

307
00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:05,175
session that we held on August first at

308
00:11:05,175 --> 00:11:06,371
06:30PM

309
00:11:06,371 --> 00:11:07,566
in the Mountain Time zone.

310
00:11:08,602 --> 00:11:11,168
And to get the Zoom link and attend

311
00:11:11,168 --> 00:11:12,763
that session. All you have to do is

312
00:11:12,763 --> 00:11:15,096
send an email to matt at

313
00:11:15,633 --> 00:11:17,786
sober and una ashamed dot com.

314
00:11:18,902 --> 00:11:19,402
And

315
00:11:19,874 --> 00:11:22,692
you can show up with an alias, and

316
00:11:22,991 --> 00:11:24,829
you can show up without turning your camera

317
00:11:24,829 --> 00:11:26,747
or your microphone on and just sit in

318
00:11:26,747 --> 00:11:28,425
the weeds and listen. So this is as

319
00:11:28,425 --> 00:11:28,879
low

320
00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:32,579
you know, the the low risk as lower

321
00:11:32,579 --> 00:11:33,079
bar

322
00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:34,408
of,

323
00:11:35,522 --> 00:11:37,725
you know, stepping outside your comfort zone has

324
00:11:37,844 --> 00:11:39,680
I think we can possibly make it. We'll

325
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:42,233
have some folks from our different groups that'll

326
00:11:42,233 --> 00:11:44,388
be attending and talking about their experience a

327
00:11:44,388 --> 00:11:46,156
little bit, and then we'll be take will...

328
00:11:46,394 --> 00:11:48,617
And Sherry and I okay share some information

329
00:11:48,617 --> 00:11:50,364
about the groups, and then we'll be taking

330
00:11:50,364 --> 00:11:52,191
questions. The whole thing will go for about

331
00:11:52,191 --> 00:11:52,667
an hour,

332
00:11:53,461 --> 00:11:54,596
and you

333
00:11:55,303 --> 00:11:57,928
are invited to attend. If you are even

334
00:11:57,928 --> 00:11:58,905
remotely interested

335
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,348
in any of our groups. So just send

336
00:12:01,348 --> 00:12:03,177
that email, and we'll get you all set

337
00:12:03,177 --> 00:12:04,944
up o, last thing I'll say is, we

338
00:12:04,944 --> 00:12:07,812
aren't gonna save those emails for repurposing. You

339
00:12:07,812 --> 00:12:09,883
won't get marketing from those emails later. You

340
00:12:09,883 --> 00:12:11,397
won't get... Hey. What'd you think of the

341
00:12:11,556 --> 00:12:12,830
Q and A? Are you gonna join us?

342
00:12:13,084 --> 00:12:15,796
Nothing like that. We'll just send the link

343
00:12:15,796 --> 00:12:17,072
and be out of your way.

344
00:12:18,827 --> 00:12:20,661
So lots of people have already expressed interest.

345
00:12:20,821 --> 00:12:21,698
We'd love to have more.

346
00:12:23,782 --> 00:12:26,324
Our resentment holding you back. That's our topic

347
00:12:26,324 --> 00:12:26,880
for today.

348
00:12:27,992 --> 00:12:28,309
Sherry,

349
00:12:29,818 --> 00:12:30,318
you

350
00:12:31,010 --> 00:12:31,748
were recently

351
00:12:32,121 --> 00:12:34,774
at a meeting at the church where you

352
00:12:34,774 --> 00:12:35,975
are the children's minister,

353
00:12:36,534 --> 00:12:37,735
it was, like a committee meeting,

354
00:12:38,375 --> 00:12:39,514
and you were shu

355
00:12:40,134 --> 00:12:40,875
when you

356
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:42,867
made a point about something.

357
00:12:43,427 --> 00:12:45,344
I wanna say recently, this was a few

358
00:12:45,344 --> 00:12:46,942
months ago. A few months ago. And what's

359
00:12:46,942 --> 00:12:49,353
interesting is you're still upset about it. Because

360
00:12:49,353 --> 00:12:51,906
you just mentioned it last night. Yeah. So...

361
00:12:52,225 --> 00:12:54,219
Because I had a meeting yesterday, and it

362
00:12:54,219 --> 00:12:55,176
reminded me. Oh,

363
00:12:55,974 --> 00:12:58,047
so we I got just at. That was

364
00:12:58,047 --> 00:12:59,658
the meeting. I was just at Well, I

365
00:12:59,658 --> 00:13:01,014
will not say shit.

366
00:13:02,051 --> 00:13:04,386
Actually, it said some stuff, but I definitely

367
00:13:05,481 --> 00:13:08,310
did not enter checked or expand on

368
00:13:09,645 --> 00:13:11,879
action items. Well, when you were telling me

369
00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:14,366
about the meeting and you were made reference

370
00:13:14,366 --> 00:13:16,039
to the fact that you had been shu,

371
00:13:16,199 --> 00:13:18,053
and I knew that the s

372
00:13:18,588 --> 00:13:20,580
was a couple of months ago, I said

373
00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:21,969
to myself. Well, that's

374
00:13:22,501 --> 00:13:24,565
that's a resentment that's wedged itself in there

375
00:13:24,565 --> 00:13:28,058
pretty good. And now, you are well known

376
00:13:28,058 --> 00:13:29,369
far and wide for

377
00:13:30,386 --> 00:13:32,302
someone has crossed you holding grudges.

378
00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:34,856
But this is someone. The person who shu

379
00:13:34,856 --> 00:13:36,613
you is someone that you really care about

380
00:13:36,613 --> 00:13:38,105
and really like, and

381
00:13:38,544 --> 00:13:41,420
you are mutually helpful to each other in

382
00:13:41,420 --> 00:13:42,059
many ways.

383
00:13:43,018 --> 00:13:45,095
So it's kinda like a marriage. You're kinda

384
00:13:45,095 --> 00:13:47,824
like marriage this. Like, it was shocking. I

385
00:13:47,824 --> 00:13:49,361
know. That I was, like, so,

386
00:13:50,536 --> 00:13:53,424
like, dismissed. But the point is this isn't

387
00:13:53,424 --> 00:13:54,862
the kind of person that you can just,

388
00:13:54,942 --> 00:13:55,262
you know,

389
00:13:56,061 --> 00:13:57,898
wipe your hands clean and say you're dead

390
00:13:57,898 --> 00:13:58,697
to me. Right.

391
00:13:59,336 --> 00:14:01,266
So someone that you like can care about

392
00:14:01,266 --> 00:14:02,620
it and and I would say love. I...

393
00:14:02,859 --> 00:14:04,452
I you have a very close relationship with

394
00:14:04,452 --> 00:14:04,930
this person.

395
00:14:05,567 --> 00:14:06,305
This person

396
00:14:07,159 --> 00:14:10,044
wounded you, and you are still upset about

397
00:14:10,044 --> 00:14:12,444
it. Boy, does that sound like an alcoholic

398
00:14:12,444 --> 00:14:12,684
marriage?

399
00:14:13,804 --> 00:14:16,365
So you're holding on to a resentment. Now,

400
00:14:16,858 --> 00:14:19,002
I don't wanna paint that picture as though

401
00:14:19,002 --> 00:14:21,147
you're the only bad guy out there. I

402
00:14:21,147 --> 00:14:22,735
too. Am I'm holding resentment. I don't know.

403
00:14:23,132 --> 00:14:24,403
I I thought about it a little bit.

404
00:14:25,294 --> 00:14:26,810
I don't know. I know you know about

405
00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:28,565
these situations, but I don't know if you

406
00:14:28,565 --> 00:14:30,400
know how much I still think about them.

407
00:14:30,879 --> 00:14:32,156
I am a high school soccer coach.

408
00:14:32,889 --> 00:14:34,887
And I have been passed up for jobs

409
00:14:34,887 --> 00:14:37,524
in the past. Now there's 2 ways that

410
00:14:37,683 --> 00:14:39,202
I've been passed up. I've been passed up

411
00:14:39,202 --> 00:14:41,532
for jobs where I have no connections I've

412
00:14:41,532 --> 00:14:44,555
sent in my resume, have expressed interest and

413
00:14:44,555 --> 00:14:45,191
been passed up.

414
00:14:45,907 --> 00:14:48,309
That, for whatever reason doesn't bother me at

415
00:14:48,309 --> 00:14:50,706
all. This is a very cut throat business.

416
00:14:51,185 --> 00:14:53,422
There are way more people who want to

417
00:14:53,422 --> 00:14:55,435
coach High school soccer than there are high

418
00:14:55,435 --> 00:14:57,035
school soccer coaching positions for.

419
00:14:57,995 --> 00:15:00,394
Yeah. That doesn't bother me. The ones that

420
00:15:00,394 --> 00:15:02,315
bother me are the people who I I've

421
00:15:02,315 --> 00:15:05,047
developed relationships with and they still pass me

422
00:15:05,047 --> 00:15:06,666
up. And there are a couple

423
00:15:07,364 --> 00:15:08,982
that I can think of in particular

424
00:15:09,441 --> 00:15:10,534
that I think about

425
00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:13,036
when I'm win a state title someday.

426
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:16,610
I know that's optimistic to say. But we

427
00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:19,009
say, talk your way into the success you

428
00:15:19,009 --> 00:15:20,767
want, You know? So I I play into

429
00:15:20,767 --> 00:15:22,365
1 day when a state title. And when

430
00:15:22,445 --> 00:15:24,363
I win that title. I I'm not kidding

431
00:15:24,363 --> 00:15:26,441
when I say, I know what my first

432
00:15:26,441 --> 00:15:28,687
2 phone calls will I will call those

433
00:15:28,687 --> 00:15:30,516
2 people and say gosh. I really would

434
00:15:30,516 --> 00:15:31,550
have liked to do that at your school,

435
00:15:31,709 --> 00:15:33,539
but too bad. You didn't have a confidence

436
00:15:33,539 --> 00:15:35,968
in me to to hire me so instead

437
00:15:36,347 --> 00:15:37,306
or something like that.

438
00:15:40,104 --> 00:15:40,343
Yeah.

439
00:15:41,143 --> 00:15:43,221
So I hold resentment too. Now do I

440
00:15:43,221 --> 00:15:44,235
really think I'd make those phone

441
00:15:44,988 --> 00:15:46,814
Think so. That seems like sour grapes. That

442
00:15:46,814 --> 00:15:48,163
seems like the kind of thing you don't

443
00:15:48,163 --> 00:15:49,750
do. You take the higher of that situation,

444
00:15:49,988 --> 00:15:51,734
hope, but I will want to. I will

445
00:15:51,734 --> 00:15:53,891
want to so bad. I wanna rub it

446
00:15:53,891 --> 00:15:54,129
in.

447
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,618
So I've got my own set of resentment

448
00:15:57,618 --> 00:15:59,466
now. 1 thing that we've learned

449
00:15:59,838 --> 00:16:00,735
through our own

450
00:16:01,125 --> 00:16:01,944
resentment processing

451
00:16:02,245 --> 00:16:04,324
through our own alcoholic marriage and through working

452
00:16:04,324 --> 00:16:05,304
with other people

453
00:16:06,004 --> 00:16:09,538
is that acknowledgment is more important than the

454
00:16:09,538 --> 00:16:10,017
apology.

455
00:16:10,655 --> 00:16:12,192
Right? That was the case

456
00:16:13,366 --> 00:16:15,280
as far as how you felt about me.

457
00:16:15,918 --> 00:16:17,354
All the things that I did as an

458
00:16:17,354 --> 00:16:18,252
active drinker

459
00:16:18,884 --> 00:16:21,988
to cause trauma and chaos in a relationship.

460
00:16:23,581 --> 00:16:25,093
And then, you know, I was half blacked

461
00:16:25,093 --> 00:16:26,367
out half the time anyway.

462
00:16:27,019 --> 00:16:27,759
And so

463
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:30,540
you weren't necessarily looking for an apology. You

464
00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:32,960
were looking for me to acknowledge that your

465
00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:35,032
experience was valid?

466
00:16:35,909 --> 00:16:36,946
Correct. Yeah.

467
00:16:37,664 --> 00:16:40,933
Yes. Correct. So when when... We... Because let's

468
00:16:40,933 --> 00:16:42,230
just just just

469
00:16:42,687 --> 00:16:43,426
add this

470
00:16:44,376 --> 00:16:46,071
we get apologize to

471
00:16:46,527 --> 00:16:49,634
all the freaking time. What do you? Why

472
00:16:49,634 --> 00:16:52,764
that, like, the sober partner from the partner

473
00:16:52,764 --> 00:16:55,085
with the addiction. Sorry I'm gonna do better.

474
00:16:55,245 --> 00:16:56,764
Sorry I'm gonna keep it under control. Sorry

475
00:16:56,925 --> 00:16:57,745
I that

476
00:16:58,365 --> 00:16:59,085
sorry Sorry.

477
00:16:59,738 --> 00:17:01,667
Are. Sorry. So you're sa

478
00:17:02,517 --> 00:17:03,812
are so worthless

479
00:17:05,059 --> 00:17:07,362
at the point where you are discussing the

480
00:17:07,362 --> 00:17:09,688
resentment. That that's 1 reason I didn't wanna

481
00:17:09,688 --> 00:17:11,521
sorry. I go further than that. I don't

482
00:17:11,521 --> 00:17:12,398
just think they're worthless.

483
00:17:13,036 --> 00:17:15,827
When I apologized, and then I repeated the

484
00:17:15,827 --> 00:17:16,327
same

485
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:17,920
terrible behavior.

486
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,160
It was it was worse than worthless. It

487
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,460
was painful

488
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:24,339
that

489
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,050
I would say I'm sorry. And then do

490
00:17:27,050 --> 00:17:28,805
the thing I just apologize for. It was...

491
00:17:29,124 --> 00:17:30,320
Right? I mean, you've told you I it's

492
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,155
almost like... Well, I don't I seen... How

493
00:17:32,155 --> 00:17:33,511
stupid are you. But I don't know if

494
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:35,185
I would like... I don't know if that

495
00:17:35,185 --> 00:17:36,792
point I would call it painful because I

496
00:17:36,792 --> 00:17:38,383
had already been burned too much to really

497
00:17:38,383 --> 00:17:40,371
believe your apologies. So I had already been

498
00:17:40,371 --> 00:17:42,438
like, ugh, Okay. That's nothing word. So if

499
00:17:42,438 --> 00:17:44,188
until maybe in the beginning when there were

500
00:17:44,267 --> 00:17:46,113
Sa and then you did it again then

501
00:17:46,192 --> 00:17:48,186
I was pain and hurt by it. But

502
00:17:48,186 --> 00:17:49,325
by the point

503
00:17:49,861 --> 00:17:52,414
in which we are speaking about it's worthless.

504
00:17:52,653 --> 00:17:54,727
Yeah. Human might as well in saying Gobble

505
00:17:54,727 --> 00:17:57,690
gu because that's the same amount of credibility

506
00:17:57,770 --> 00:17:59,465
I give to your apologies

507
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,107
because I had already became resent and closed

508
00:18:03,107 --> 00:18:04,914
off and attached that that's why I can

509
00:18:05,114 --> 00:18:06,807
say those were kinda worthless

510
00:18:08,218 --> 00:18:08,934
and pointless.

511
00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:12,596
And let's pick painful for a while. The

512
00:18:12,596 --> 00:18:15,886
the the alcoholic who apologize as we go

513
00:18:15,886 --> 00:18:17,964
along. So my pattern would be,

514
00:18:19,243 --> 00:18:19,882
drink too much,

515
00:18:21,001 --> 00:18:21,960
same things,

516
00:18:23,094 --> 00:18:25,726
have a erratic behavior, have mood swings,

517
00:18:26,922 --> 00:18:28,757
say yes, we'll leave the party at 10PM

518
00:18:28,757 --> 00:18:30,591
and then stay till 2AM. Whatever it is,

519
00:18:30,910 --> 00:18:31,548
These things.

520
00:18:32,346 --> 00:18:32,799
Do that.

521
00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:35,614
Blame you for it. It's your fault. Why

522
00:18:35,614 --> 00:18:37,200
can't you loosen up? Why aren't you more

523
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,182
fun? Why aren't you drinking with me? What's

524
00:18:39,182 --> 00:18:39,974
the matter with you?

525
00:18:42,215 --> 00:18:43,965
And then the next day,

526
00:18:44,682 --> 00:18:45,875
maybe that's when, like,

527
00:18:46,511 --> 00:18:48,500
I'm trying to process it all, the resentment

528
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:51,136
or the... Not the resentment the the regret

529
00:18:51,136 --> 00:18:53,833
starts to sink in. And then I spend

530
00:18:53,833 --> 00:18:55,364
maybe a day or 2 apologizing.

531
00:18:56,292 --> 00:18:57,775
And then we spend some period of time

532
00:18:57,894 --> 00:18:59,030
time often weeks

533
00:18:59,405 --> 00:19:00,995
where we're just going along normal,

534
00:19:02,268 --> 00:19:03,938
and then I overdo it again and the

535
00:19:03,938 --> 00:19:05,608
cycle starts again. Right? Yeah.

536
00:19:06,658 --> 00:19:09,368
I think it's important to acknowledge that that's

537
00:19:09,368 --> 00:19:10,426
the most common

538
00:19:10,803 --> 00:19:13,114
experience, but there are people out there for

539
00:19:13,114 --> 00:19:14,013
whatever reason

540
00:19:14,564 --> 00:19:17,372
that their cycle does not include the apologizing

541
00:19:17,588 --> 00:19:17,827
park.

542
00:19:18,623 --> 00:19:19,123
So

543
00:19:19,817 --> 00:19:21,568
a lot of the same behaviors we talked

544
00:19:21,568 --> 00:19:23,956
about, but when it comes to that day

545
00:19:23,956 --> 00:19:26,069
or when I'm fully of regret shame

546
00:19:26,609 --> 00:19:27,990
and just embarrassment,

547
00:19:28,529 --> 00:19:30,769
where I am apologizing to you. They just

548
00:19:30,769 --> 00:19:33,501
kinda go quiet and don't apologize. Guys. And

549
00:19:33,501 --> 00:19:35,644
so there are some loved ones of alcoholic

550
00:19:35,644 --> 00:19:37,312
because there are some spouses of alcoholic that

551
00:19:37,312 --> 00:19:40,011
have never been never received an apology. Never

552
00:19:40,011 --> 00:19:42,009
been apologized too. Yeah. And so for them,

553
00:19:42,485 --> 00:19:45,023
part of the resentment processing is the apology.

554
00:19:45,181 --> 00:19:48,036
But the idea that the amend process in

555
00:19:48,036 --> 00:19:48,805
the 12 step

556
00:19:49,724 --> 00:19:51,322
waits to slate clean and takes care of,

557
00:19:51,402 --> 00:19:52,441
but that's just not the case.

558
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,658
Because a men's is media alcoholic

559
00:19:56,037 --> 00:19:58,035
telling you the victim of my alcoholism as

560
00:19:58,369 --> 00:20:00,523
Gary, Here are the things I did bad,

561
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,596
and I'm sorry. And I want you to

562
00:20:02,596 --> 00:20:03,793
know. I'm sorry. And how can I make

563
00:20:03,793 --> 00:20:04,271
it up to you?

564
00:20:05,069 --> 00:20:06,744
And that's just not gonna hit home for

565
00:20:06,744 --> 00:20:06,903
you?

566
00:20:07,861 --> 00:20:09,791
Yeah. Because because I don't get a chance

567
00:20:09,791 --> 00:20:11,707
to other than... I mean, the question that

568
00:20:11,707 --> 00:20:13,383
you've posed me is how can I make

569
00:20:13,383 --> 00:20:15,139
this up to or whatever? You know, just

570
00:20:15,139 --> 00:20:16,118
doesn't seem as

571
00:20:16,496 --> 00:20:18,848
as thought. Full for the

572
00:20:19,307 --> 00:20:21,144
person that you've wrong to be able to

573
00:20:21,144 --> 00:20:23,301
speak their peace of mind. And maybe it

574
00:20:23,301 --> 00:20:25,154
is... Maybe that's the answer to what can

575
00:20:25,234 --> 00:20:26,595
Make this up to you? Well, you can

576
00:20:26,595 --> 00:20:27,954
sit in that chair in and you can

577
00:20:27,954 --> 00:20:29,335
sit there for a good long time

578
00:20:29,954 --> 00:20:30,355
That's right.

579
00:20:30,994 --> 00:20:32,914
Well I tell you how my experience was.

580
00:20:33,075 --> 00:20:33,634
Right? Yeah.

581
00:20:34,848 --> 00:20:36,700
But so that's the the typical

582
00:20:37,552 --> 00:20:39,460
resentment processing. It's not an apology. It's not

583
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:41,550
an men's. It's an acknowledgement

584
00:20:42,322 --> 00:20:44,890
by the anchor that your experience Sherry, the

585
00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:47,945
loved 1 is valid and true and painful

586
00:20:48,722 --> 00:20:49,281
and that

587
00:20:51,038 --> 00:20:53,444
you know, that that I... That my drinking.

588
00:20:53,762 --> 00:20:56,068
We're big on blaming the alcohol, blaming the

589
00:20:56,068 --> 00:20:56,807
alcohol ism

590
00:20:57,181 --> 00:20:58,158
that my drinking

591
00:20:58,612 --> 00:21:01,577
was what caused that experience. Yeah. And sometimes,

592
00:21:02,684 --> 00:21:04,922
there would be conversations, and I know that

593
00:21:04,922 --> 00:21:06,440
we've said this on the podcast, but I

594
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,100
wanna reiterate

595
00:21:07,958 --> 00:21:09,397
because we also say it in our groups

596
00:21:09,397 --> 00:21:11,415
many times. There were some

597
00:21:12,047 --> 00:21:15,069
situations that I had to kind of walk

598
00:21:15,069 --> 00:21:16,842
through and talk through with you

599
00:21:17,297 --> 00:21:18,981
several times, because maybe I did feel like

600
00:21:19,140 --> 00:21:20,409
I got it all out or maybe I

601
00:21:20,409 --> 00:21:22,868
missed an important piece or, maybe after kind

602
00:21:22,868 --> 00:21:23,265
of like,

603
00:21:24,138 --> 00:21:25,566
you know, it's like an onion. Like, after

604
00:21:25,725 --> 00:21:26,836
I peeled off the first layer,

605
00:21:27,486 --> 00:21:29,156
maybe there was some second layer that I

606
00:21:29,156 --> 00:21:30,985
was, like, kinda hit, but then I was

607
00:21:30,985 --> 00:21:33,211
like, oh, but this is really what I

608
00:21:33,211 --> 00:21:35,199
was, like, Yeah. This is the core burn.

609
00:21:35,517 --> 00:21:36,684
Like I thought about.

610
00:21:37,201 --> 00:21:38,872
You know? And now it's like, that was

611
00:21:38,872 --> 00:21:40,622
the core, and that was the maybe the

612
00:21:40,622 --> 00:21:42,849
core or the the thing I really want

613
00:21:42,849 --> 00:21:45,076
you to understand about that particular situation.

614
00:21:45,726 --> 00:21:47,865
This is it. I'm also, like, a little

615
00:21:47,865 --> 00:21:49,530
bit of a verbal processor. So it takes

616
00:21:49,530 --> 00:21:50,743
a while for a me to

617
00:21:51,194 --> 00:21:53,750
kinda... I have to loop back things sometimes.

618
00:21:54,308 --> 00:21:56,220
So you kinda had to endure that a

619
00:21:56,220 --> 00:21:57,437
couple of times of

620
00:21:58,053 --> 00:22:00,099
hearing the same kind of scenario over an

621
00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:01,900
over. And also, I was looking for your

622
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:03,819
reaction? Because I thought, shit... How many times

623
00:22:03,819 --> 00:22:05,500
have you told me the same shit over

624
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:05,980
and over.

625
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:08,380
You know? It's just fair.

626
00:22:09,114 --> 00:22:10,393
For me to get it off of my

627
00:22:10,393 --> 00:22:12,549
chest, and I wanted to see your reaction.

628
00:22:12,709 --> 00:22:15,207
So that's where I think the men's process

629
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,119
is a little short sighted versus the resentment

630
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:19,619
processing

631
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,899
if you have that opportunity to do it,

632
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,894
you know, to the partner. Yeah.

633
00:22:25,694 --> 00:22:27,315
Because I really needed to see

634
00:22:28,095 --> 00:22:29,054
your reaction,

635
00:22:29,855 --> 00:22:31,474
and I really needed to feel

636
00:22:31,934 --> 00:22:33,075
that you are really

637
00:22:34,028 --> 00:22:35,545
engaged with what I was saying.

638
00:22:36,184 --> 00:22:36,423
Yeah.

639
00:22:37,142 --> 00:22:38,897
Because I think the amend process too. There's

640
00:22:38,897 --> 00:22:40,334
a lot of you write it out. So

641
00:22:40,334 --> 00:22:42,904
you're just reading what you wrote. Or they're

642
00:22:42,904 --> 00:22:45,641
reading what you wrote, and I think that

643
00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:48,358
voice inflection really adds a lot

644
00:22:48,737 --> 00:22:50,196
of energy to the

645
00:22:50,735 --> 00:22:51,389
conversation. Yeah.

646
00:22:52,507 --> 00:22:54,904
So that's what resentment processing looks like when

647
00:22:54,904 --> 00:22:56,902
you have a partner that's receptive to do

648
00:22:56,902 --> 00:22:59,394
the resentment processing with you. Which is not

649
00:22:59,394 --> 00:23:01,954
always the case in absolutely. It's not the

650
00:23:01,954 --> 00:23:02,115
case.

651
00:23:02,835 --> 00:23:05,075
I lot somewhere around 50 percent of the

652
00:23:05,075 --> 00:23:05,315
time.

653
00:23:06,126 --> 00:23:07,715
Maybe the majority of the time you don't

654
00:23:07,715 --> 00:23:09,780
have the partner to resentment process with either

655
00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:12,719
because you've parted company from that person or

656
00:23:12,719 --> 00:23:13,673
because they just can't do it.

657
00:23:14,324 --> 00:23:15,597
There are a lot of people out there

658
00:23:15,597 --> 00:23:17,052
that can't sit and listen

659
00:23:17,746 --> 00:23:18,883
to the

660
00:23:19,418 --> 00:23:19,918
experience

661
00:23:20,373 --> 00:23:22,779
without re them. Yeah. And a lot of

662
00:23:22,779 --> 00:23:23,178
them say,

663
00:23:24,137 --> 00:23:25,655
you know, and I used to say this.

664
00:23:25,895 --> 00:23:27,414
Why? Do we have to go through that

665
00:23:27,414 --> 00:23:28,852
again. Why do you have to drag up

666
00:23:28,852 --> 00:23:31,345
the past? Like, hey, I'm sober now we're

667
00:23:31,345 --> 00:23:32,224
trying to move forward,

668
00:23:32,865 --> 00:23:34,865
what is wrong with you? Well, I'm here

669
00:23:34,865 --> 00:23:35,684
to tell you

670
00:23:36,464 --> 00:23:38,224
until that resentment is processed. 1 way or

671
00:23:38,224 --> 00:23:40,316
the other. It is not going lingering.

672
00:23:41,034 --> 00:23:42,490
Lingering and lingering is lingering...

673
00:23:42,867 --> 00:23:44,781
Participate in that or not.

674
00:23:45,498 --> 00:23:46,476
Well, and I think

675
00:23:46,853 --> 00:23:47,944
that that's where

676
00:23:48,699 --> 00:23:50,922
when they say the work of recovery. You

677
00:23:50,922 --> 00:23:52,113
know, it may not happen.

678
00:23:53,304 --> 00:23:54,734
I mean, more than likely, it's not gonna

679
00:23:54,734 --> 00:23:55,528
happen that first year.

680
00:23:56,419 --> 00:23:58,095
It may not happen in that first 18

681
00:23:58,095 --> 00:24:00,411
months or 2 years because the person that

682
00:24:00,411 --> 00:24:02,167
you are gonna be, you know, the attic

683
00:24:02,167 --> 00:24:04,482
that you're gonna be talking to has to

684
00:24:04,482 --> 00:24:05,541
have a really

685
00:24:06,331 --> 00:24:06,831
well

686
00:24:07,999 --> 00:24:11,336
adjusted ego and there has to be humility,

687
00:24:11,495 --> 00:24:12,710
and there has to be

688
00:24:13,099 --> 00:24:16,207
you know, a lot less shame and self

689
00:24:16,207 --> 00:24:17,801
confidence to be able to take that words.

690
00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:20,612
Also, that's why I think with

691
00:24:21,004 --> 00:24:22,998
Mitchell and Anna from we are recovery that

692
00:24:22,998 --> 00:24:23,498
really

693
00:24:24,035 --> 00:24:27,225
really like that like having that third party

694
00:24:27,225 --> 00:24:29,538
entity who's the attic. The blame. To blame

695
00:24:29,538 --> 00:24:32,208
the alcohol and blame the attic, and then

696
00:24:32,426 --> 00:24:34,581
you're kind of like, launching it off to

697
00:24:34,581 --> 00:24:36,896
this other thing that is no longer existed

698
00:24:36,896 --> 00:24:38,891
because I used to think like, oh, that's

699
00:24:38,891 --> 00:24:39,370
junk mat.

700
00:24:39,943 --> 00:24:42,565
This is normal map. You know. But then

701
00:24:42,565 --> 00:24:44,313
after a while, of years and years of

702
00:24:44,313 --> 00:24:47,276
drinking that drunk behavior even it gets sprinkled

703
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:48,070
into

704
00:24:48,619 --> 00:24:50,460
the not drunk or the normal or the

705
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:52,859
sober mat. Mh. You know? So then it's

706
00:24:52,859 --> 00:24:55,740
this line that's getting crossed and blurred. Mh.

707
00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:58,813
Because of the behaviors, the alcoholic behaviors during,

708
00:24:59,271 --> 00:25:01,745
you know, days of sobriety. Yeah. It's still

709
00:25:01,745 --> 00:25:02,644
there. So

710
00:25:03,181 --> 00:25:04,697
what do you explain for that? So that

711
00:25:04,697 --> 00:25:05,655
was a good way for me to be,

712
00:25:05,735 --> 00:25:06,624
like, oh,

713
00:25:07,339 --> 00:25:09,643
so just when it's it's not just the

714
00:25:09,643 --> 00:25:11,788
alcohol, but it's the attic that lives inside

715
00:25:11,788 --> 00:25:12,423
him. Mh.

716
00:25:13,535 --> 00:25:16,262
Yeah. Because point. But this... So this is

717
00:25:16,262 --> 00:25:18,339
all stuff that you can do resentment processing

718
00:25:18,339 --> 00:25:18,839
wise

719
00:25:19,537 --> 00:25:21,430
when you have access to

720
00:25:21,947 --> 00:25:24,174
the person to do the resentment processing with.

721
00:25:24,891 --> 00:25:26,163
What about when you don't?

722
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,471
What about those cases like we said,

723
00:25:29,187 --> 00:25:30,460
maybe the majority? I don't know.

724
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:34,932
Where you can't process with the alcoholic for

725
00:25:34,932 --> 00:25:35,966
1 reason or another.

726
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,058
What does

727
00:25:38,369 --> 00:25:40,548
resentment processing look like then

728
00:25:41,007 --> 00:25:41,886
without the other person.

729
00:25:43,084 --> 00:25:45,103
Let's think about... Let's go back to our

730
00:25:45,322 --> 00:25:46,920
our cases of the resentment that you and

731
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,586
I are currently holding. Because I would argue

732
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,346
that these are all resentment that we are

733
00:25:52,346 --> 00:25:54,414
not going to ever be able to to

734
00:25:54,414 --> 00:25:56,243
process with that person, even though you're very

735
00:25:56,243 --> 00:25:57,117
close with 1 of them,

736
00:25:57,849 --> 00:25:59,529
that'd be a tough to bring up and

737
00:25:59,529 --> 00:26:01,369
say, hey. Do you remember this meeting, this

738
00:26:01,369 --> 00:26:02,170
is what you did to me.

739
00:26:02,890 --> 00:26:03,390
So

740
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:06,904
so thinking about my case first where Passed

741
00:26:06,904 --> 00:26:09,701
over for high school soccer coaching jobs.

742
00:26:12,099 --> 00:26:13,777
I I thought a lot about this today.

743
00:26:14,017 --> 00:26:17,067
I think that it helps me to move

744
00:26:17,067 --> 00:26:19,939
past this resentment. When I think about what

745
00:26:19,939 --> 00:26:21,795
was the person afraid of

746
00:26:22,411 --> 00:26:24,645
that caused them to make the decision not

747
00:26:24,645 --> 00:26:26,375
to hire me for the specific position.

748
00:26:27,852 --> 00:26:29,929
What were they afraid of? And you so

749
00:26:30,009 --> 00:26:32,166
I... Like I said, there's 2 specific cases

750
00:26:32,166 --> 00:26:32,726
in my head.

751
00:26:33,618 --> 00:26:34,096
1 of them,

752
00:26:34,813 --> 00:26:36,188
I really feel confident

753
00:26:36,643 --> 00:26:37,143
that

754
00:26:37,917 --> 00:26:40,248
I didn't get hired for that job

755
00:26:40,783 --> 00:26:41,283
because...

756
00:26:42,313 --> 00:26:45,367
Because the other person going for that job

757
00:26:45,985 --> 00:26:46,485
was

758
00:26:47,103 --> 00:26:48,460
demographic more attractive.

759
00:26:49,418 --> 00:26:50,477
I am

760
00:26:51,348 --> 00:26:53,601
I think most people know a white

761
00:26:54,376 --> 00:26:54,934
heterosexual male.

762
00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:56,470
And

763
00:26:57,963 --> 00:26:58,702
this was

764
00:26:59,253 --> 00:27:02,066
coaching job where the the players

765
00:27:02,602 --> 00:27:04,436
were almost entirely hispanic.

766
00:27:05,154 --> 00:27:07,068
And the other coach that was in the

767
00:27:07,068 --> 00:27:08,915
running was his Hispanic as well,

768
00:27:09,551 --> 00:27:10,585
and also female.

769
00:27:11,381 --> 00:27:11,881
And

770
00:27:14,006 --> 00:27:14,744
I had

771
00:27:15,772 --> 00:27:18,085
way more experience than the other person did.

772
00:27:18,803 --> 00:27:19,122
But,

773
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,239
again,

774
00:27:21,196 --> 00:27:22,175
they had some

775
00:27:22,552 --> 00:27:23,052
intangible

776
00:27:23,429 --> 00:27:24,067
or intangible.

777
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:27,138
I guess I have the intangible. They have

778
00:27:27,437 --> 00:27:28,476
the tangible. Whatever.

779
00:27:29,834 --> 00:27:31,453
And this is an environment.

780
00:27:31,832 --> 00:27:33,351
This is an environment where I think that

781
00:27:33,351 --> 00:27:33,851
principle

782
00:27:34,722 --> 00:27:37,189
had they gone with me? That principal would

783
00:27:37,189 --> 00:27:38,700
have gotten a ton of heat.

784
00:27:39,496 --> 00:27:41,189
Why did you pass over

785
00:27:41,979 --> 00:27:43,598
this person that

786
00:27:44,136 --> 00:27:46,294
looks like our students and fits the demographic

787
00:27:46,294 --> 00:27:47,113
of the school

788
00:27:47,732 --> 00:27:49,330
in favor of this white guy.

789
00:27:51,184 --> 00:27:52,865
And I know that's a controversial thing to

790
00:27:52,865 --> 00:27:56,065
say, but it happens. It happens a lot

791
00:27:56,065 --> 00:27:56,545
around here.

792
00:27:57,279 --> 00:27:57,755
And I guess,

793
00:27:58,629 --> 00:28:00,059
I'm... I'm... I don't know if you could

794
00:28:00,059 --> 00:28:01,727
tell. I'm, like, trying to choose my words

795
00:28:01,727 --> 00:28:02,942
wisely, and I'm hesitating.

796
00:28:03,316 --> 00:28:05,461
So I am a little uncomfortable talking about

797
00:28:05,461 --> 00:28:08,259
this. But I think it's reality, and you

798
00:28:08,259 --> 00:28:10,246
can make the argument. Oh Matt, you know,

799
00:28:10,405 --> 00:28:12,870
you just didn't interview as well. And this

800
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:15,096
person deserved it more. Okay. Fine. That's all

801
00:28:15,096 --> 00:28:17,587
entirely possible. But for me to process the

802
00:28:17,587 --> 00:28:20,064
resentment because I know I'm a better coach

803
00:28:20,064 --> 00:28:21,982
than that person is, and I know I've

804
00:28:21,982 --> 00:28:23,875
got a ton more experience than that person

805
00:28:23,994 --> 00:28:24,494
does

806
00:28:25,031 --> 00:28:27,604
for me, from my perspective, this isn't for,

807
00:28:27,742 --> 00:28:29,576
you know, for me to engage with the

808
00:28:29,576 --> 00:28:31,649
principal who made the decision. This is just

809
00:28:31,649 --> 00:28:32,765
for me to let it go.

810
00:28:33,892 --> 00:28:35,877
It helps me to say that person was

811
00:28:35,877 --> 00:28:36,433
in a bind.

812
00:28:37,307 --> 00:28:39,315
That principal made that decision

813
00:28:39,689 --> 00:28:40,189
because

814
00:28:41,277 --> 00:28:42,015
the other

815
00:28:42,644 --> 00:28:45,280
option was a safer hire. Given the environment

816
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:45,839
that we're in,

817
00:28:46,798 --> 00:28:49,135
given the place we live and the

818
00:28:49,528 --> 00:28:51,836
political sentiment here and just all the pieces

819
00:28:51,836 --> 00:28:53,984
of the puzzle. That was a safer hire.

820
00:28:54,302 --> 00:28:54,620
Mh.

821
00:28:55,177 --> 00:28:57,723
Regardless of this is not 1 where what's

822
00:28:57,723 --> 00:28:59,490
the win loss record in 5 years,

823
00:29:00,924 --> 00:29:02,221
that's gonna determine

824
00:29:02,836 --> 00:29:05,146
the way the hire is viewed.

825
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:06,839
This is a case where,

826
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,140
you know, the

827
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:12,380
the choice of coach

828
00:29:13,093 --> 00:29:14,920
was based on other factors other than when

829
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,747
it wins and losses. Does that make sense?

830
00:29:17,303 --> 00:29:19,527
Yeah. So that allows me to cut that

831
00:29:19,527 --> 00:29:22,228
principal some Slack and say, okay? That principle

832
00:29:22,228 --> 00:29:24,715
was in box box, and I wasn't the

833
00:29:24,715 --> 00:29:26,949
solution to that box. Right. The other case...

834
00:29:27,108 --> 00:29:29,183
Because, I mean, that happens in it and

835
00:29:29,183 --> 00:29:30,561
it doesn't even have to be

836
00:29:30,954 --> 00:29:32,071
gender or race,

837
00:29:32,550 --> 00:29:34,146
I think that happens in a lot of

838
00:29:34,146 --> 00:29:37,200
scenarios and situations. I mean, where maybe,

839
00:29:37,817 --> 00:29:40,228
you know, the broader picture isn't maybe just

840
00:29:40,228 --> 00:29:42,146
the skill set, but it's other things that

841
00:29:42,146 --> 00:29:45,502
those people can bring into your business community

842
00:29:45,582 --> 00:29:46,860
Yeah work environment.

843
00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:49,288
And the and adding to it. And so

844
00:29:49,903 --> 00:29:51,733
for that example too, I also just think

845
00:29:51,733 --> 00:29:52,472
of fluency

846
00:29:53,007 --> 00:29:53,883
in the language.

847
00:29:54,281 --> 00:29:54,997
Yeah. You know,

848
00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:58,130
language barriers that were encountered. It wasn't...

849
00:29:59,250 --> 00:30:00,470
It wasn't unreasonable,

850
00:30:01,410 --> 00:30:02,630
you know, for you to

851
00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:04,930
I had you had a that was fluent

852
00:30:04,930 --> 00:30:07,095
in space. Yeah. So you had solutions you

853
00:30:07,095 --> 00:30:08,391
came up with it, But then

854
00:30:08,766 --> 00:30:10,278
not the same as being fluent as the

855
00:30:10,278 --> 00:30:12,799
head. You're right? You know, but also, my

856
00:30:12,999 --> 00:30:14,355
said that happens in a lot of other

857
00:30:14,355 --> 00:30:16,189
things like, what can this other person bring

858
00:30:16,189 --> 00:30:18,045
in that we may not see,

859
00:30:18,821 --> 00:30:19,220
you know,

860
00:30:20,177 --> 00:30:22,171
for ourselves, like we're looking like, but we're

861
00:30:22,171 --> 00:30:23,701
so much more that we have so much

862
00:30:23,701 --> 00:30:25,613
more experience Or we have such a better

863
00:30:25,613 --> 00:30:26,888
track record, Yeah. You know.

864
00:30:27,605 --> 00:30:29,597
But you're right. It just wasn't fitting the

865
00:30:29,597 --> 00:30:31,788
need at that moment. Build The other case

866
00:30:31,846 --> 00:30:32,346
is,

867
00:30:33,124 --> 00:30:35,279
and I'll explain the background on this 1

868
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:37,355
faster because there's no racial component. I'm not

869
00:30:37,355 --> 00:30:39,270
uncomfortable. The other case was 1,

870
00:30:39,844 --> 00:30:42,241
where I was passed over twice by this

871
00:30:42,241 --> 00:30:44,159
particular athletic director that I know well and

872
00:30:44,159 --> 00:30:45,757
have worked for as an assistant coach.

873
00:30:46,875 --> 00:30:50,006
And and I have a very good win

874
00:30:50,006 --> 00:30:50,826
loss record

875
00:30:51,205 --> 00:30:52,882
as a lower level coach at the school.

876
00:30:53,521 --> 00:30:54,021
But

877
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:54,640
the...

878
00:30:55,454 --> 00:30:58,011
Both times, the person that got the job,

879
00:30:58,571 --> 00:30:59,870
their resume

880
00:31:00,569 --> 00:31:03,206
was objectively shiny near than mine. Mh. They

881
00:31:03,206 --> 00:31:04,266
had more experience

882
00:31:04,899 --> 00:31:07,448
than I did. And I think again, this

883
00:31:07,448 --> 00:31:10,396
athletic director made the safe decision safe for

884
00:31:10,396 --> 00:31:11,432
covering their own hide.

885
00:31:12,309 --> 00:31:13,584
You know, if you looked at those 2

886
00:31:13,584 --> 00:31:14,061
resumes,

887
00:31:14,714 --> 00:31:16,968
and let's say you make the hire and

888
00:31:17,504 --> 00:31:20,293
things go poorly, you can say, this was

889
00:31:20,293 --> 00:31:22,365
the best candidate that was available at the

890
00:31:22,365 --> 00:31:24,375
time. So even if they went bad, and

891
00:31:24,455 --> 00:31:25,652
I have the fire. I and I gotta

892
00:31:25,652 --> 00:31:27,827
replace them, I picked the best candidate

893
00:31:28,284 --> 00:31:30,852
at the time regardless of you know, things

894
00:31:30,852 --> 00:31:33,744
like loyalty and track record and and

895
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:35,737
relationship. So,

896
00:31:36,592 --> 00:31:38,585
like I said, I'm not gonna over explain

897
00:31:38,585 --> 00:31:38,825
this 1.

898
00:31:40,759 --> 00:31:42,599
Again, it was safety for that person. So

899
00:31:42,599 --> 00:31:43,880
in both of my cases,

900
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:46,599
the principal and the athletic director made the

901
00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:47,319
safest choice.

902
00:31:48,294 --> 00:31:50,202
To cover their own tails, and I happen

903
00:31:50,202 --> 00:31:51,713
to know that both at principle and that

904
00:31:51,713 --> 00:31:54,894
athletic director work long hours and have stressful

905
00:31:54,894 --> 00:31:56,905
jobs and are under a ton of pressure

906
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:00,345
from not only managing students, but from parents

907
00:32:00,564 --> 00:32:02,718
and from other community members and from their

908
00:32:02,718 --> 00:32:03,117
bosses.

909
00:32:03,596 --> 00:32:04,335
And so

910
00:32:04,793 --> 00:32:06,644
I can think about the fact that made

911
00:32:06,644 --> 00:32:08,638
the safe choice and go, okay.

912
00:32:09,516 --> 00:32:12,388
Yeah. I see that. I'm I'm not a

913
00:32:12,388 --> 00:32:15,518
choose of safety myself. I will almost always.

914
00:32:15,837 --> 00:32:18,075
Our risk day. I will almost always choose

915
00:32:18,075 --> 00:32:20,153
the radical choice. Yes. And roll the dice

916
00:32:20,153 --> 00:32:22,151
and see what happens. Yes. And hope for

917
00:32:22,151 --> 00:32:25,117
the best. Yeah. But I don't think I'm

918
00:32:25,117 --> 00:32:27,666
the norm, and I think these people made

919
00:32:27,666 --> 00:32:30,454
safe choices as most people would. Yeah. And

920
00:32:30,454 --> 00:32:32,047
that does bit ton for me.

921
00:32:32,858 --> 00:32:34,613
To re to let go of the resentment,

922
00:32:34,932 --> 00:32:38,143
Thinking about what their fear was. Their fear

923
00:32:39,318 --> 00:32:41,471
drove the decision and passed me up.

924
00:32:42,601 --> 00:32:44,775
And I mean, it's a lot of relief

925
00:32:44,832 --> 00:32:46,267
to think that there's... So let's talk about

926
00:32:46,267 --> 00:32:46,984
your situation.

927
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:50,649
Okay. So the meeting facility talk or do

928
00:32:50,649 --> 00:32:52,359
you want me to stop? You just gonna

929
00:32:52,660 --> 00:32:55,000
present it in his so the meeting facilitator

930
00:32:55,619 --> 00:32:58,179
that shu you. Now, what's the meeting facilitator

931
00:32:58,179 --> 00:32:59,634
that that's just. Okay. Well, maybe I shouldn't

932
00:32:59,634 --> 00:32:59,794
talk.

933
00:33:01,312 --> 00:33:02,611
It was not meeting

934
00:33:03,070 --> 00:33:04,827
prefer a break for me talking. It was

935
00:33:04,827 --> 00:33:06,346
not the meeting facilitator. Right.

936
00:33:07,239 --> 00:33:09,168
They were a person who is

937
00:33:10,018 --> 00:33:11,630
on the board but had had

938
00:33:12,162 --> 00:33:12,559
been,

939
00:33:13,273 --> 00:33:14,647
you know, the chair

940
00:33:15,417 --> 00:33:16,370
of the board for a while.

941
00:33:17,101 --> 00:33:18,611
And then they rolled off, but they stayed

942
00:33:18,611 --> 00:33:19,167
on the board,

943
00:33:19,962 --> 00:33:20,462
and

944
00:33:21,393 --> 00:33:24,669
I was shu by that person who had

945
00:33:24,669 --> 00:33:25,388
rolled off the board.

946
00:33:27,705 --> 00:33:28,924
The chair

947
00:33:29,383 --> 00:33:32,260
of the board was going to explain to

948
00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:32,394
me

949
00:33:33,472 --> 00:33:36,424
the scenario. Mh. Of why this probably wasn't

950
00:33:36,424 --> 00:33:37,143
a good idea.

951
00:33:39,217 --> 00:33:40,826
And I know why I got shift.

952
00:33:41,778 --> 00:33:44,319
It wasn't because I've was going off tangent

953
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:45,692
and talking about something

954
00:33:46,304 --> 00:33:47,574
that wasn't relatable.

955
00:33:48,288 --> 00:33:50,209
It was because we were gonna to discuss

956
00:33:50,209 --> 00:33:50,709
finances

957
00:33:51,481 --> 00:33:53,570
in front of staff members

958
00:33:53,944 --> 00:33:55,477
and parent volunteers

959
00:33:56,327 --> 00:33:57,383
to fill a role

960
00:33:57,837 --> 00:33:58,210
that

961
00:33:59,369 --> 00:34:01,369
we had talked about for the last 2

962
00:34:01,369 --> 00:34:01,869
years

963
00:34:02,250 --> 00:34:02,890
on the board.

964
00:34:03,529 --> 00:34:04,750
But now there's a

965
00:34:05,130 --> 00:34:05,630
semi

966
00:34:06,009 --> 00:34:06,509
solution

967
00:34:07,049 --> 00:34:09,846
and much has been allocated for that position

968
00:34:09,846 --> 00:34:10,584
in other

969
00:34:11,512 --> 00:34:12,885
staff positions and

970
00:34:13,496 --> 00:34:15,004
and faculty positions.

971
00:34:16,289 --> 00:34:18,943
So there's that. So it was about finances,

972
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:21,415
and there's a little sub committee

973
00:34:22,351 --> 00:34:24,903
that talks about that, but it's not shared

974
00:34:24,903 --> 00:34:25,940
with the Board in general.

975
00:34:26,432 --> 00:34:27,859
So I don't know if it was fear.

976
00:34:28,097 --> 00:34:29,842
Maybe it was fear that they were gonna...

977
00:34:30,318 --> 00:34:32,617
Someone was gonna give away some numbers and

978
00:34:32,617 --> 00:34:34,069
say, oh, that budget

979
00:34:34,378 --> 00:34:37,188
for that salary has now been real allocated

980
00:34:37,723 --> 00:34:39,258
to do all these other things

981
00:34:39,953 --> 00:34:43,732
to make the job pay raise more attractive

982
00:34:43,788 --> 00:34:44,288
to

983
00:34:44,743 --> 00:34:45,243
incoming

984
00:34:45,617 --> 00:34:48,264
positions. Well, I think it's definitely fair. So

985
00:34:48,321 --> 00:34:50,389
it's this part that I already been figured

986
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:50,707
out,

987
00:34:51,264 --> 00:34:53,826
Mh. Sherry, if you ask your question or

988
00:34:53,826 --> 00:34:56,057
make your point, we're gonna have to go

989
00:34:56,057 --> 00:34:57,413
into the weeds and we don't wanna go

990
00:34:57,413 --> 00:34:58,789
into the weeds because then

991
00:34:59,166 --> 00:35:00,840
people will know too much or they might

992
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,585
start asking about this. And so

993
00:35:03,961 --> 00:35:05,576
it's absolutely fear of

994
00:35:06,191 --> 00:35:07,226
transparency. Yeah.

995
00:35:07,863 --> 00:35:09,750
That's good. Because I was late... Because that's

996
00:35:10,029 --> 00:35:12,905
I immediately knew was like, oh, so they

997
00:35:12,905 --> 00:35:14,183
don't want us to know everything.

998
00:35:14,583 --> 00:35:16,101
They don't want this piece of the board

999
00:35:16,101 --> 00:35:16,900
to know everything.

1000
00:35:17,711 --> 00:35:18,211
And

1001
00:35:18,586 --> 00:35:20,893
so I never really linked it to fear.

1002
00:35:21,450 --> 00:35:23,041
I know on the last podcast, I said

1003
00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:25,053
I would start putting things to the filter

1004
00:35:25,508 --> 00:35:27,915
a fear going back to something I hadn't

1005
00:35:27,915 --> 00:35:29,590
really thought of. So I know you're a

1006
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:32,304
better than I am, but does it do

1007
00:35:32,304 --> 00:35:33,522
anything for you

1008
00:35:34,072 --> 00:35:36,237
to to think about that person's

1009
00:35:36,688 --> 00:35:37,902
position who shu you

1010
00:35:38,274 --> 00:35:38,774
and

1011
00:35:39,225 --> 00:35:41,500
recognize that they were afraid of that level

1012
00:35:41,539 --> 00:35:43,460
of transparency because it was gonna add work

1013
00:35:43,460 --> 00:35:45,380
for them. They'd have to do some more

1014
00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:47,699
explaining. There'd probably be more questions. Too many

1015
00:35:47,699 --> 00:35:49,219
people would know too much stuff.

1016
00:35:50,019 --> 00:35:53,010
Does they? Does that relieve any of your

1017
00:35:53,228 --> 00:35:54,346
resentment for being shu?

1018
00:35:55,623 --> 00:35:57,778
No. Because I ironically the person that was

1019
00:35:57,778 --> 00:36:00,422
gonna tell me the situation is also the

1020
00:36:00,422 --> 00:36:01,637
person who is a

1021
00:36:02,725 --> 00:36:05,347
consultant finance in the accountant for the company

1022
00:36:05,347 --> 00:36:07,967
too, Like, this this piece of the the

1023
00:36:07,967 --> 00:36:08,864
company. So

1024
00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:11,557
they had no fear in explaining.

1025
00:36:13,783 --> 00:36:16,008
But I think that the other person who

1026
00:36:16,008 --> 00:36:16,746
has done

1027
00:36:17,121 --> 00:36:19,603
negotiations and had been on many boards,

1028
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:21,436
educational boards, whatever,

1029
00:36:21,994 --> 00:36:22,733
I think

1030
00:36:23,189 --> 00:36:24,623
that they just felt like it...

1031
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:27,492
I mean, from their point of view.

1032
00:36:28,224 --> 00:36:30,615
I think I can understand that that it

1033
00:36:30,615 --> 00:36:32,151
would just be too much to

1034
00:36:32,767 --> 00:36:33,267
to

1035
00:36:34,601 --> 00:36:35,101
explain

1036
00:36:35,717 --> 00:36:37,800
and on fold in front of the rest

1037
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,550
of the board, which some people were newer.

1038
00:36:40,107 --> 00:36:42,175
So you can understand my care. You can

1039
00:36:42,175 --> 00:36:44,584
understand why you were should. I can totally

1040
00:36:44,641 --> 00:36:46,090
understand that. But it does still pissed. It

1041
00:36:46,090 --> 00:36:47,684
doesn't really hear at all. Still makes me

1042
00:36:47,684 --> 00:36:50,235
a little pissed. A little... But no, It

1043
00:36:50,235 --> 00:36:52,467
makes me just a little pissed. K. That's

1044
00:36:52,467 --> 00:36:52,706
all.

1045
00:36:53,597 --> 00:36:55,029
You just think that every time I talk

1046
00:36:55,108 --> 00:36:57,654
I'm animated and that it just that I'm

1047
00:36:57,654 --> 00:36:59,563
all worked up. I sat right next in

1048
00:36:59,563 --> 00:37:01,726
the person, person and I worked on 4

1049
00:37:01,726 --> 00:37:02,464
other projects

1050
00:37:02,919 --> 00:37:04,373
I said you love them. So

1051
00:37:04,748 --> 00:37:05,544
it just I'm like,

1052
00:37:06,976 --> 00:37:09,380
this thing that makes me that that drives

1053
00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:12,089
my frustration by it is the 2 different

1054
00:37:12,089 --> 00:37:14,534
little aspects of it. You know, the lab

1055
00:37:14,654 --> 00:37:15,634
of transparency.

1056
00:37:16,253 --> 00:37:18,330
That's what... And it's not a... I don't

1057
00:37:18,330 --> 00:37:19,150
think it's a

1058
00:37:19,768 --> 00:37:20,268
fear

1059
00:37:21,206 --> 00:37:22,266
of transparency.

1060
00:37:22,885 --> 00:37:24,974
I think it's a... And it's not a

1061
00:37:24,974 --> 00:37:27,765
fear, like, you know, fo? Like, I don't

1062
00:37:27,765 --> 00:37:28,882
know what's going on in that of the

1063
00:37:28,882 --> 00:37:30,716
board. I just think, well, why am I

1064
00:37:30,716 --> 00:37:32,710
here if I'm only getting personal information and

1065
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:34,264
we're of making the best

1066
00:37:35,041 --> 00:37:36,021
decisions for the

1067
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,796
the project. Okay. Maybe we're getting to the

1068
00:37:38,796 --> 00:37:40,887
root here. I hope we're not we're probably

1069
00:37:40,887 --> 00:37:42,879
just confusing people so much. But you don't

1070
00:37:42,879 --> 00:37:44,074
wanna be on this board to begin with.

1071
00:37:44,393 --> 00:37:46,704
Don't even though I get paid. You've kind

1072
00:37:46,704 --> 00:37:48,239
of been forced into this

1073
00:37:49,014 --> 00:37:50,703
because of your position is a director of

1074
00:37:50,703 --> 00:37:52,854
children's medicine. Yeah. So you don't Even serve...

1075
00:37:53,253 --> 00:37:55,245
Else said On will... On the day after

1076
00:37:55,245 --> 00:37:57,158
the meeting, like, 20 minutes after the meeting.

1077
00:37:57,636 --> 00:37:59,507
Toy have to be on the this So

1078
00:37:59,724 --> 00:38:02,436
you're not frustrated about being Shu. You have

1079
00:38:02,436 --> 00:38:04,430
resentment because you're there to begin with. Well,

1080
00:38:04,590 --> 00:38:06,504
I have to them if I have be

1081
00:38:06,504 --> 00:38:08,673
there. If I have to be there I

1082
00:38:08,673 --> 00:38:10,988
wanna be productive and I want to make

1083
00:38:10,988 --> 00:38:13,324
the best possible decisions, and I can't make

1084
00:38:13,782 --> 00:38:15,858
a good decision when it's presented to me

1085
00:38:15,858 --> 00:38:17,865
when I only know pieces of the information.

1086
00:38:18,182 --> 00:38:19,396
So the solution

1087
00:38:19,769 --> 00:38:21,062
isn't for you to recognize

1088
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:23,283
the other person's

1089
00:38:24,132 --> 00:38:25,242
fear of transparency.

1090
00:38:25,654 --> 00:38:27,331
The solution is for you to be let

1091
00:38:27,331 --> 00:38:29,327
off the board. Yeah. But it's not gonna

1092
00:38:29,327 --> 00:38:29,566
have.

1093
00:38:30,684 --> 00:38:32,360
K. So that's why I just decided that

1094
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:33,260
I'm just

1095
00:38:34,277 --> 00:38:35,335
going to be

1096
00:38:36,284 --> 00:38:37,793
looking at it, like, I am a volunteer.

1097
00:38:38,031 --> 00:38:39,859
I mean, I'm not gonna let things go

1098
00:38:39,859 --> 00:38:42,163
crazy. Okay. Well, that wasn't a very good

1099
00:38:42,163 --> 00:38:44,961
example. It's not your fault. Sorry. That's wasn't

1100
00:38:44,961 --> 00:38:47,533
a very example of how to to

1101
00:38:47,909 --> 00:38:50,140
present processing without the other person.

1102
00:38:50,697 --> 00:38:52,702
And I think Well, I just wanna say,

1103
00:38:52,861 --> 00:38:55,905
like, what I do in that situation

1104
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:57,155
is I just remember,

1105
00:38:58,029 --> 00:38:59,460
this person wasn't doing it.

1106
00:39:00,114 --> 00:39:01,635
To be un kind to me.

1107
00:39:02,434 --> 00:39:05,094
They were trying to kind of protect

1108
00:39:05,474 --> 00:39:07,554
some of the information that they feel like

1109
00:39:07,554 --> 00:39:08,170
other people

1110
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,906
don't really have to know. Well, you made

1111
00:39:10,906 --> 00:39:13,603
that point? And so I can I can

1112
00:39:13,603 --> 00:39:15,135
appreciate that piece, but then

1113
00:39:15,445 --> 00:39:17,204
this is the big piece? I have to

1114
00:39:17,204 --> 00:39:18,744
remember all that this person

1115
00:39:19,204 --> 00:39:20,905
does for our community

1116
00:39:21,845 --> 00:39:23,857
outside of the church and what she does

1117
00:39:23,857 --> 00:39:26,174
for me and how... And, like, she has

1118
00:39:26,174 --> 00:39:28,570
hired our kids to do work for her,

1119
00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:30,978
you know, like, we have helped her... Yeah.

1120
00:39:31,217 --> 00:39:32,810
You love her. So I'm just saying, like...

1121
00:39:33,049 --> 00:39:34,107
So when I have

1122
00:39:34,882 --> 00:39:36,474
that moment of, like, oh, here I go.

1123
00:39:36,728 --> 00:39:37,842
Wonder if When gonna I get sure at

1124
00:39:37,842 --> 00:39:40,467
this meeting. You know, I say, no. I...

1125
00:39:40,706 --> 00:39:41,978
I mean, and if I am, I am

1126
00:39:41,978 --> 00:39:42,615
a big kid,

1127
00:39:43,251 --> 00:39:44,221
I can handle it,

1128
00:39:45,016 --> 00:39:47,560
and I just gotta remember that this person

1129
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,105
has a lot of other things that are

1130
00:39:50,105 --> 00:39:51,003
so admirable,

1131
00:39:52,888 --> 00:39:53,286
you know,

1132
00:39:53,938 --> 00:39:54,416
Absolutely.

1133
00:39:55,531 --> 00:39:56,009
Absolutely.

1134
00:39:57,045 --> 00:39:59,276
Okay. Let's let's turn this back to alcoholism.

1135
00:39:59,515 --> 00:40:00,572
Let's talk about

1136
00:40:00,964 --> 00:40:02,899
you know, 1 of your biggest resentment

1137
00:40:03,754 --> 00:40:06,305
occurred on your fort birthday. Mh. And we've

1138
00:40:06,305 --> 00:40:08,139
told the story many times, so I'm gonna

1139
00:40:08,139 --> 00:40:09,389
give the abbreviated verse,

1140
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:13,109
but it was your fort birthday. I planned

1141
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:15,109
a weekend away in the mountains for just

1142
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:17,289
you and me. I arranged for babysitter,

1143
00:40:17,909 --> 00:40:19,542
and then I have planned I planned,

1144
00:40:19,994 --> 00:40:22,082
you know, like, stuff for us to do

1145
00:40:22,297 --> 00:40:24,520
activities on our weekend away, and we were...

1146
00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:27,243
And so we

1147
00:40:27,616 --> 00:40:30,177
when went out of town, and the, you

1148
00:40:30,177 --> 00:40:32,643
know, the problem started when we were in

1149
00:40:32,643 --> 00:40:33,780
traffic on the highway

1150
00:40:34,314 --> 00:40:36,914
because I was complaining about the traffic and

1151
00:40:37,034 --> 00:40:39,739
slam the steering wheel and and being just

1152
00:40:39,739 --> 00:40:40,239
generally

1153
00:40:41,171 --> 00:40:42,046
unpleasant to be around.

1154
00:40:42,842 --> 00:40:44,592
And, of course, the reason was I wanted

1155
00:40:44,592 --> 00:40:46,997
to get to the condo we were staying

1156
00:40:46,997 --> 00:40:48,672
in and start drinking.

1157
00:40:50,188 --> 00:40:50,688
And

1158
00:40:51,864 --> 00:40:54,352
you know, another thing that really bothered you

1159
00:40:54,352 --> 00:40:56,106
about the weekend is that I had every

1160
00:40:56,106 --> 00:40:56,904
minute planned.

1161
00:40:57,782 --> 00:40:59,855
And so there wasn't a lot of leisure

1162
00:40:59,855 --> 00:41:02,269
downtime, which is something that you really wanted

1163
00:41:02,328 --> 00:41:04,339
for that birthday weekend. Some relaxing.

1164
00:41:05,299 --> 00:41:06,119
And everything

1165
00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:09,559
that I had planned was oriented around either

1166
00:41:09,619 --> 00:41:11,059
alcohol or sex. Yes.

1167
00:41:11,713 --> 00:41:14,730
Is all that fair? Yes. Okay. So we

1168
00:41:14,730 --> 00:41:16,636
have talked about it many times, this is

1169
00:41:16,636 --> 00:41:18,542
1 as you were describing earlier that you

1170
00:41:18,542 --> 00:41:19,908
had to come back around to a few

1171
00:41:19,908 --> 00:41:21,420
times. You had to figure out what... What's

1172
00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:22,694
the real core pain?

1173
00:41:23,251 --> 00:41:25,559
What's the real thing? Because it it kept

1174
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:27,333
coming up? Mh. And

1175
00:41:28,753 --> 00:41:30,733
luckily, I had done enough recovery work that

1176
00:41:30,891 --> 00:41:31,630
I was

1177
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,427
accepting of the fact that it kept coming

1178
00:41:33,427 --> 00:41:35,349
up. I didn't say things like, we already

1179
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:36,710
talked about that, Sherry. We're not gonna talk

1180
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:38,949
about it anymore. I said, oh, this is

1181
00:41:38,949 --> 00:41:39,449
interesting

1182
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:41,349
that you keep bringing this up. This 1

1183
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:43,909
obviously hurt more than others did. Mh.

1184
00:41:44,483 --> 00:41:47,263
Which, you know, again, objectively, it wasn't the

1185
00:41:47,263 --> 00:41:49,169
worst thing I did. Did lots of worse

1186
00:41:49,169 --> 00:41:51,393
things than that. Yeah. We are the... But

1187
00:41:51,393 --> 00:41:53,640
it wasn't as it wasn't as volatile

1188
00:41:54,266 --> 00:41:56,169
you know, it could have been. Mh. Yeah.

1189
00:41:56,882 --> 00:41:57,620
But so

1190
00:41:58,230 --> 00:42:00,395
allowing you to keep coming back to it

1191
00:42:00,688 --> 00:42:01,188
was

1192
00:42:01,894 --> 00:42:04,711
helpful for your processing, and it was interesting

1193
00:42:04,770 --> 00:42:06,848
to me because why is this the 1

1194
00:42:06,848 --> 00:42:08,286
that's sticking it across so much?

1195
00:42:09,338 --> 00:42:12,369
But all that happened. Let's say I for

1196
00:42:12,369 --> 00:42:14,681
whatever reason wasn't available for you to process

1197
00:42:14,681 --> 00:42:17,472
with either because I said, you know, screw

1198
00:42:17,472 --> 00:42:17,972
you

1199
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,193
I don't wanna talk about the past anymore.

1200
00:42:20,432 --> 00:42:22,443
I'm sober now. Let's think about the future

1201
00:42:22,579 --> 00:42:24,489
or because we had parted ways.

1202
00:42:26,179 --> 00:42:28,420
What would the resentment processing have looked like?

1203
00:42:28,659 --> 00:42:29,539
And I'm wondering,

1204
00:42:30,260 --> 00:42:32,795
would you have thought about what was I

1205
00:42:32,914 --> 00:42:35,791
afraid of on your fort birthday that caused

1206
00:42:35,791 --> 00:42:37,069
me to behave the way I did?

1207
00:42:37,868 --> 00:42:38,747
Do you have any ideas?

1208
00:42:39,546 --> 00:42:41,397
What I have thought about what you were

1209
00:42:41,397 --> 00:42:41,796
afraid of?

1210
00:42:43,471 --> 00:42:45,544
Well, yeah. So what what do you think

1211
00:42:45,623 --> 00:42:46,341
I was afraid of?

1212
00:42:48,175 --> 00:42:50,065
I guess, I'm not asking would you have

1213
00:42:50,264 --> 00:42:52,341
done this. I'm asking you to do it

1214
00:42:52,341 --> 00:42:54,578
now. Yeah. What do you think I was

1215
00:42:54,578 --> 00:42:54,978
afraid of?

1216
00:42:56,974 --> 00:42:58,657
And not being entertaining enough.

1217
00:42:59,927 --> 00:43:03,023
Not being exciting enough. You think Again Not

1218
00:43:03,023 --> 00:43:04,372
being in it? Yeah. That I would be

1219
00:43:04,372 --> 00:43:05,484
bored. And I'd be like, this is all

1220
00:43:05,484 --> 00:43:07,570
you offer for my fort birthday. Oh, okay.

1221
00:43:08,048 --> 00:43:09,643
You know? Like, that's all you got.

1222
00:43:12,355 --> 00:43:14,668
I mean, I guess maybe fear of, like,

1223
00:43:14,908 --> 00:43:17,710
not being impressed. By you and your plans.

1224
00:43:18,983 --> 00:43:20,574
You know what's really interesting. I thought about

1225
00:43:20,574 --> 00:43:22,244
this all day, and I made a list

1226
00:43:22,244 --> 00:43:23,768
of things that I afraid of, and that

1227
00:43:23,768 --> 00:43:25,118
wasn't on the list, but now that you've

1228
00:43:25,118 --> 00:43:27,816
said it, you're right. That definitely would have

1229
00:43:27,816 --> 00:43:29,166
been a big part of it. Because my...

1230
00:43:29,324 --> 00:43:31,567
Your 20 second birthday didn't do enough and

1231
00:43:31,567 --> 00:43:33,162
you had to show me up. Well,

1232
00:43:34,518 --> 00:43:36,592
because you wanted to drink... I I'm not

1233
00:43:36,592 --> 00:43:38,665
a good gift purchaser and I'm not a

1234
00:43:38,665 --> 00:43:40,043
good gift rapper

1235
00:43:41,393 --> 00:43:43,412
And, you know, this goes beyond

1236
00:43:44,031 --> 00:43:46,129
me being cheap, which we've talked about

1237
00:43:46,508 --> 00:43:49,545
at nausea on this podcast, but beyond me

1238
00:43:49,545 --> 00:43:51,867
being cheap. I'm just... That's not my thing.

1239
00:43:52,186 --> 00:43:53,481
Mh. And so

1240
00:43:54,095 --> 00:43:56,083
planning this weekend, you're absolutely right.

1241
00:43:57,132 --> 00:43:58,667
Was important to me to

1242
00:43:59,282 --> 00:44:00,714
show you how much I loved you.

1243
00:44:01,589 --> 00:44:03,601
Through through action, like

1244
00:44:04,295 --> 00:44:06,148
like, this was my gift to you was

1245
00:44:06,148 --> 00:44:07,985
all this stuff of the weekend. You're absolutely

1246
00:44:07,985 --> 00:44:08,145
right.

1247
00:44:09,184 --> 00:44:10,303
Well, what did you come up with?

1248
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:12,780
Let's see.

1249
00:44:13,751 --> 00:44:16,378
I was also afraid of reality.

1250
00:44:16,856 --> 00:44:18,687
Like, this was a little fantasy we were

1251
00:44:18,687 --> 00:44:20,677
on. This is fantasy island for us. Right?

1252
00:44:21,409 --> 00:44:23,239
We had... Yeah. We had We left Friday

1253
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,069
afternoon, and we were coming back till Sunday

1254
00:44:25,069 --> 00:44:25,887
night and

1255
00:44:27,138 --> 00:44:28,411
no kids and no work.

1256
00:44:29,224 --> 00:44:31,144
And Yeah. We had 4 kids standing and

1257
00:44:31,144 --> 00:44:32,505
under. Go through was fantasy.

1258
00:44:32,905 --> 00:44:33,144
Right.

1259
00:44:33,785 --> 00:44:36,025
So the fear of reality, the fear of

1260
00:44:36,025 --> 00:44:37,325
returning to the routine

1261
00:44:39,797 --> 00:44:41,794
I know it was your birthday weekend, but

1262
00:44:41,794 --> 00:44:43,152
it was my escape.

1263
00:44:43,791 --> 00:44:45,800
And I definitely in see part of the

1264
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,630
problem is, I didn't ask you what you

1265
00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:49,062
wanted. I mean, that's a huge part of.

1266
00:44:50,175 --> 00:44:50,675
Ding.

1267
00:44:51,528 --> 00:44:53,889
But in my head, it was, okay. Let's

1268
00:44:54,168 --> 00:44:55,282
maximize the party.

1269
00:44:55,838 --> 00:44:56,657
Let's maximize

1270
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:59,179
the drinking, let's maximize the sex.

1271
00:45:01,103 --> 00:45:02,773
And let... And, you know, more than that,

1272
00:45:03,011 --> 00:45:05,077
let's maximize the party atmosphere and the file.

1273
00:45:05,316 --> 00:45:06,985
Let's go to when we go out to

1274
00:45:06,985 --> 00:45:08,734
eat, let's make it fun places. There were

1275
00:45:08,734 --> 00:45:10,898
places with live music for instance, let's go

1276
00:45:10,898 --> 00:45:11,958
to those places

1277
00:45:12,496 --> 00:45:12,996
and

1278
00:45:13,376 --> 00:45:16,193
and just make it a true escape. So

1279
00:45:16,891 --> 00:45:18,410
I think you're right out. In addition to

1280
00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:20,260
being afraid of letting you down.

1281
00:45:21,059 --> 00:45:23,612
I was also afraid of the reality that

1282
00:45:23,692 --> 00:45:25,049
I was returning to. I didn't hate my

1283
00:45:25,049 --> 00:45:28,338
job. I loved our kids, I liked their

1284
00:45:28,338 --> 00:45:28,657
house,

1285
00:45:29,936 --> 00:45:30,436
but,

1286
00:45:31,054 --> 00:45:33,052
you know, when you're go go go, go

1287
00:45:33,052 --> 00:45:34,490
go all the time,

1288
00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:37,880
that escape is really special and really

1289
00:45:41,212 --> 00:45:41,930
important, I guess.

1290
00:45:42,728 --> 00:45:43,468
And so

1291
00:45:43,846 --> 00:45:46,571
I was afraid of, we've only got 48

1292
00:45:46,571 --> 00:45:46,890
hours,

1293
00:45:47,766 --> 00:45:49,359
and if we don't use every minute of

1294
00:45:49,359 --> 00:45:50,656
it effectively,

1295
00:45:51,112 --> 00:45:52,170
then I will be

1296
00:45:52,626 --> 00:45:53,024
regret.

1297
00:45:54,393 --> 00:45:55,350
That was a part of it as well.

1298
00:45:55,988 --> 00:45:56,488
So

1299
00:45:57,264 --> 00:45:59,257
the... You know, kind of the question is

1300
00:45:59,257 --> 00:46:01,251
if I wasn't here to talk through this

1301
00:46:01,251 --> 00:46:01,490
with,

1302
00:46:02,607 --> 00:46:03,107
could

1303
00:46:04,536 --> 00:46:06,289
the thoughts about what I was afraid of,

1304
00:46:06,449 --> 00:46:08,145
could those have helped

1305
00:46:08,681 --> 00:46:09,819
to alleviate

1306
00:46:10,196 --> 00:46:10,696
your

1307
00:46:11,152 --> 00:46:12,085
resentment about

1308
00:46:12,604 --> 00:46:14,442
the way your 40 birthday weekend went. Yeah.

1309
00:46:14,682 --> 00:46:17,318
I probably also would have carried along with

1310
00:46:17,318 --> 00:46:17,818
me

1311
00:46:18,677 --> 00:46:21,050
that he just didn't know me. He just

1312
00:46:21,248 --> 00:46:22,043
know what I wanted.

1313
00:46:22,758 --> 00:46:24,053
Not that you were so

1314
00:46:24,666 --> 00:46:25,563
selfish and

1315
00:46:26,017 --> 00:46:27,789
unable to ask me, you just

1316
00:46:28,815 --> 00:46:30,972
And and and maybe because I would have,

1317
00:46:31,131 --> 00:46:34,247
like, continued to learn about alcohol and understand

1318
00:46:34,247 --> 00:46:35,980
how selfish it was. I maybe would have

1319
00:46:36,259 --> 00:46:37,853
put it through the filter of. He was

1320
00:46:37,853 --> 00:46:40,563
just too self serving to even ask what

1321
00:46:40,643 --> 00:46:42,077
I wanted because he thought he knew me.

1322
00:46:42,556 --> 00:46:44,150
He thought I knew what I wanted.

1323
00:46:44,959 --> 00:46:45,276
I don't...

1324
00:46:46,070 --> 00:46:47,284
I think I would have

1325
00:46:48,768 --> 00:46:50,140
been a little bit more

1326
00:46:52,117 --> 00:46:54,264
like disappointed about that piece?

1327
00:46:56,730 --> 00:46:57,128
Mh.

1328
00:46:58,877 --> 00:47:00,204
Like, you not knowing me

1329
00:47:00,882 --> 00:47:02,398
But if we would have parted company,

1330
00:47:02,876 --> 00:47:04,652
then there would have been a million other

1331
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:06,486
instances where I could,

1332
00:47:06,943 --> 00:47:08,618
you know, have said he didn't know me

1333
00:47:08,618 --> 00:47:10,546
then. He didn't know me he didn't know

1334
00:47:10,546 --> 00:47:10,944
me then.

1335
00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:13,674
So it would have kind of

1336
00:47:14,688 --> 00:47:15,484
made sense,

1337
00:47:16,121 --> 00:47:17,396
and that would have been a way that

1338
00:47:17,555 --> 00:47:18,294
I could

1339
00:47:19,164 --> 00:47:21,639
like, process it, like, even though it sounds

1340
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:23,714
negative to say he doesn't even know me

1341
00:47:23,714 --> 00:47:24,592
or didn't ask,

1342
00:47:25,151 --> 00:47:27,546
but I can say, alcohol made him so

1343
00:47:27,546 --> 00:47:28,105
self serving.

1344
00:47:29,075 --> 00:47:32,257
That he couldn't think beyond what his needs

1345
00:47:32,257 --> 00:47:32,654
work.

1346
00:47:35,854 --> 00:47:37,532
To know what my these were.

1347
00:47:38,810 --> 00:47:40,967
And that's 1 of the reasons were not

1348
00:47:40,967 --> 00:47:41,687
together anymore.

1349
00:47:44,335 --> 00:47:46,398
I think that would be kind of like,

1350
00:47:48,778 --> 00:47:50,151
a way I could accept

1351
00:47:50,762 --> 00:47:50,920
that.

1352
00:47:52,214 --> 00:47:53,175
And process it.

1353
00:47:54,694 --> 00:47:56,855
You know, besides the fact that, like, I

1354
00:47:56,855 --> 00:47:58,714
would have been, like, yeah. And

1355
00:47:59,175 --> 00:48:01,659
he probably was afraid that I wouldn't be

1356
00:48:01,659 --> 00:48:03,908
impressed because I have been kind of,

1357
00:48:05,475 --> 00:48:07,542
you know, cruel 1 time when you wrapped

1358
00:48:07,542 --> 00:48:08,019
a gift,

1359
00:48:08,735 --> 00:48:11,724
you know, and it was really hap and,

1360
00:48:12,105 --> 00:48:12,505
you know,

1361
00:48:14,025 --> 00:48:14,525
so

1362
00:48:14,905 --> 00:48:16,445
I could also have

1363
00:48:16,905 --> 00:48:19,079
processed reason and by also looking a little

1364
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:21,559
bit more inward and say, there were times

1365
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:22,699
that I was very,

1366
00:48:23,319 --> 00:48:25,019
you know, g and

1367
00:48:25,894 --> 00:48:28,375
and mean about the gift and the quality

1368
00:48:28,375 --> 00:48:30,054
of the gift because we've talked about, like,

1369
00:48:30,214 --> 00:48:32,775
the Franklin planner and, you know, because you

1370
00:48:32,775 --> 00:48:34,214
just wanted me to be like, you and

1371
00:48:34,214 --> 00:48:36,144
organized or to clean everything.

1372
00:48:36,622 --> 00:48:38,454
You know, You thought it would be nice

1373
00:48:38,454 --> 00:48:39,966
to housekeeping, and it just made me feel

1374
00:48:39,966 --> 00:48:41,957
like, I didn't have the skill set to

1375
00:48:41,957 --> 00:48:42,992
clean the house. You know?

1376
00:48:43,803 --> 00:48:44,303
So

1377
00:48:45,076 --> 00:48:46,371
I'm sure I could have

1378
00:48:47,382 --> 00:48:49,291
processed it and put it through that filter

1379
00:48:49,291 --> 00:48:50,507
too. Like, I'm

1380
00:48:50,976 --> 00:48:51,793
kinda was

1381
00:48:52,246 --> 00:48:53,777
part of the reason he maybe

1382
00:48:54,467 --> 00:48:55,420
would have felt bad.

1383
00:48:59,639 --> 00:48:59,877
Yeah.

1384
00:49:01,305 --> 00:49:01,702
Interesting.

1385
00:49:04,002 --> 00:49:04,240
Yeah.

1386
00:49:05,606 --> 00:49:07,912
So I mean, I think though, because we

1387
00:49:07,912 --> 00:49:08,969
processed it

1388
00:49:09,901 --> 00:49:11,810
and thankfully been able to do it together,

1389
00:49:12,064 --> 00:49:13,739
I mean, part of it is that you

1390
00:49:13,739 --> 00:49:16,052
didn't even ask me what I wanted and

1391
00:49:16,052 --> 00:49:16,770
what I needed.

1392
00:49:17,967 --> 00:49:20,599
So I think that would have stayed true.

1393
00:49:20,758 --> 00:49:22,529
I just would have had to deal with

1394
00:49:22,529 --> 00:49:23,029
it,

1395
00:49:23,967 --> 00:49:26,444
you know, from the aspect of late, that

1396
00:49:26,444 --> 00:49:28,442
was because of... Yeah. Man that would have

1397
00:49:28,442 --> 00:49:30,934
been because of our alcohol. That's my part

1398
00:49:30,934 --> 00:49:33,251
of it. Whether we did it together or

1399
00:49:33,251 --> 00:49:33,571
not,

1400
00:49:36,048 --> 00:49:37,407
you know, this is really kind of the

1401
00:49:37,407 --> 00:49:39,005
first time we're addressing the why.

1402
00:49:40,380 --> 00:49:40,880
Because

1403
00:49:41,579 --> 00:49:43,579
when we talked... When we have talked about

1404
00:49:43,579 --> 00:49:45,660
this many times in the past this particular

1405
00:49:45,660 --> 00:49:47,820
event, for why has always been, oh, I

1406
00:49:47,820 --> 00:49:50,549
was a selfish alcoholic. Yeah. And that's true,

1407
00:49:51,026 --> 00:49:52,695
but it's also not maybe...

1408
00:49:53,331 --> 00:49:55,081
Like, there's a y behind that too. Yeah.

1409
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:56,376
No. It's not the

1410
00:49:56,989 --> 00:49:57,625
it's not the

1411
00:49:58,420 --> 00:50:01,001
the not baseline. It's not the

1412
00:50:01,771 --> 00:50:03,597
not the full why. There's more to it.

1413
00:50:04,152 --> 00:50:06,717
Yeah. The fear of compressing you

1414
00:50:07,343 --> 00:50:09,275
that need to maximize

1415
00:50:10,445 --> 00:50:13,148
the the limited amount of time together because

1416
00:50:13,148 --> 00:50:15,534
of my fear of going back. So maybe

1417
00:50:15,534 --> 00:50:17,068
a set of a recent

1418
00:50:17,617 --> 00:50:19,287
maybe... I'm sorry. It... But I don't wanna

1419
00:50:19,287 --> 00:50:20,719
lose my thought. Maybe instead of,

1420
00:50:21,514 --> 00:50:22,014
sometimes

1421
00:50:22,389 --> 00:50:23,923
some of those resentment

1422
00:50:24,474 --> 00:50:25,672
things that you...

1423
00:50:26,472 --> 00:50:28,070
If you can't do them with your partner,

1424
00:50:28,229 --> 00:50:29,369
it has to be

1425
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,877
kinda you have to reconcile it within yourself.

1426
00:50:35,356 --> 00:50:36,875
And I think a big part of that

1427
00:50:36,875 --> 00:50:39,213
is what we're talking about, really

1428
00:50:39,831 --> 00:50:40,971
trying to understand

1429
00:50:41,684 --> 00:50:42,582
what it is

1430
00:50:43,277 --> 00:50:46,226
about this person in this situation that made

1431
00:50:46,226 --> 00:50:46,943
that behavior,

1432
00:50:48,297 --> 00:50:50,050
you know, go that way. Because then I

1433
00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:51,978
think you have more empathy to when you

1434
00:50:51,978 --> 00:50:53,733
can, like, look at it from this. What

1435
00:50:53,733 --> 00:50:54,392
is this,

1436
00:50:55,328 --> 00:50:58,837
you know, fear concern, worry. Yeah. That made

1437
00:50:58,837 --> 00:50:59,635
him do that?

1438
00:51:00,592 --> 00:51:01,331
And then

1439
00:51:01,961 --> 00:51:03,552
I mean I think the m empathy is

1440
00:51:03,552 --> 00:51:04,052
really

1441
00:51:04,665 --> 00:51:06,358
kind of the only way

1442
00:51:07,209 --> 00:51:09,356
to release the resentment itself. Yeah.

1443
00:51:10,088 --> 00:51:12,324
I mean, going back to my examples,

1444
00:51:12,883 --> 00:51:15,379
because yours is too muddled to actually use

1445
00:51:16,396 --> 00:51:17,114
of the.

1446
00:51:17,593 --> 00:51:19,405
Okay. But my examples of

1447
00:51:21,045 --> 00:51:23,445
you know, resentment for being passed over,

1448
00:51:24,565 --> 00:51:26,244
if I can get to the point of

1449
00:51:26,244 --> 00:51:27,204
empathy for the person, like,

1450
00:51:27,860 --> 00:51:29,940
they made the they made the safe choice,

1451
00:51:30,659 --> 00:51:31,940
and they had a lot going on in

1452
00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:33,559
their life and in their career

1453
00:51:34,099 --> 00:51:36,355
and asking them make the heart choices asking

1454
00:51:36,355 --> 00:51:37,494
too much. So,

1455
00:51:38,114 --> 00:51:39,635
I have empathy for the fact that they

1456
00:51:39,635 --> 00:51:40,514
made the safe choice.

1457
00:51:41,315 --> 00:51:43,094
That totally does help me

1458
00:51:43,394 --> 00:51:43,894
to

1459
00:51:44,449 --> 00:51:46,289
take them off the hook to take them

1460
00:51:46,289 --> 00:51:48,289
off my call list for when we would

1461
00:51:48,289 --> 00:51:48,849
say title.

1462
00:51:49,569 --> 00:51:50,769
They won't hear anything from me.

1463
00:51:51,730 --> 00:51:53,103
They'll just have to go a rumor mill.

1464
00:51:53,501 --> 00:51:55,575
Let's look at your records. I mean, I

1465
00:51:55,575 --> 00:51:56,634
am not so

1466
00:51:57,649 --> 00:51:59,266
good at taking the high road

1467
00:51:59,643 --> 00:52:01,477
as to say that I don't hope that

1468
00:52:01,477 --> 00:52:01,956
they know.

1469
00:52:03,086 --> 00:52:04,597
And I don't hope that they think,

1470
00:52:05,630 --> 00:52:06,926
I wonder what could happen

1471
00:52:07,698 --> 00:52:09,766
because I do. I do hope, but I'm

1472
00:52:09,766 --> 00:52:10,720
not gonna be the 1 to point it

1473
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:11,674
out to them. Yeah.

1474
00:52:12,964 --> 00:52:15,281
Because I have empathy for them. Mh. And

1475
00:52:15,281 --> 00:52:17,838
having empathy for an alcoholic partner to bring

1476
00:52:17,838 --> 00:52:19,936
it back to this side of the conversation

1477
00:52:20,885 --> 00:52:23,822
when this alcoholic partners the 1 that is

1478
00:52:23,822 --> 00:52:25,331
caused all this pain for you.

1479
00:52:26,999 --> 00:52:27,713
That's a big ask.

1480
00:52:28,761 --> 00:52:30,431
That's a really hard thing to do. Kind

1481
00:52:30,431 --> 00:52:31,805
of empathy for your,

1482
00:52:32,179 --> 00:52:33,927
you know, your perpetrator, basically.

1483
00:52:34,802 --> 00:52:35,302
But

1484
00:52:36,009 --> 00:52:36,509
But

1485
00:52:37,445 --> 00:52:38,184
I think

1486
00:52:38,721 --> 00:52:40,874
thinking of what they were afraid of,

1487
00:52:41,592 --> 00:52:44,963
thinking why they acted the way they did

1488
00:52:45,754 --> 00:52:47,265
and trying to find empathy for them.

1489
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:49,731
I don't think that's a gift you're giving

1490
00:52:49,731 --> 00:52:51,242
to that person. I think that's a gift

1491
00:52:51,242 --> 00:52:52,197
you're giving to yourself.

1492
00:52:53,008 --> 00:52:54,283
Because it's helping you to let go of

1493
00:52:54,283 --> 00:52:56,833
the resentment when you don't have them to

1494
00:52:56,833 --> 00:52:58,050
converse about with

1495
00:52:58,666 --> 00:52:59,781
converse about the resentment with,

1496
00:53:01,713 --> 00:53:01,952
So...

1497
00:53:03,070 --> 00:53:03,390
Yeah.

1498
00:53:05,627 --> 00:53:07,280
It's empathy powerful, and it's

1499
00:53:07,797 --> 00:53:09,865
it's not just powerful to for to the

1500
00:53:09,865 --> 00:53:11,774
person on the receiving end, it's powerful to

1501
00:53:11,774 --> 00:53:13,842
the give of empathy as well.

1502
00:53:15,911 --> 00:53:19,034
So very true. Tough process. Present processing, whether

1503
00:53:19,034 --> 00:53:21,266
it's with someone or without them. There's a

1504
00:53:21,266 --> 00:53:22,324
lot to it. And,

1505
00:53:23,179 --> 00:53:24,157
you know, that's

1506
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:26,224
know, 1 of the things that we try

1507
00:53:26,224 --> 00:53:28,776
to be here for people to help them

1508
00:53:28,776 --> 00:53:31,329
with, whether it's just from listening to a

1509
00:53:31,329 --> 00:53:32,525
podcast and saying,

1510
00:53:33,641 --> 00:53:35,652
okay. I guess got 2 little tidbits from

1511
00:53:35,652 --> 00:53:37,967
that podcast, things that can help me when

1512
00:53:38,046 --> 00:53:39,802
I think about the resentment, I have to

1513
00:53:39,802 --> 00:53:42,298
deal with with my partner who's not

1514
00:53:42,676 --> 00:53:44,285
available to process with me,

1515
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:46,458
or whether it's,

1516
00:53:47,073 --> 00:53:47,391
you know,

1517
00:53:48,268 --> 00:53:51,056
expressing interest in and getting involved in our

1518
00:53:51,056 --> 00:53:52,113
tribes and our

1519
00:53:52,584 --> 00:53:53,860
our our different programs.

1520
00:53:54,977 --> 00:53:56,971
You know, we want to be a part

1521
00:53:56,971 --> 00:53:59,443
of working through this with folks and helping

1522
00:53:59,443 --> 00:54:01,539
them find the empathy and helping them recognize

1523
00:54:01,597 --> 00:54:02,449
the fear and others

1524
00:54:03,288 --> 00:54:05,523
and helping them release it. So it doesn't

1525
00:54:05,523 --> 00:54:06,241
dog him anymore.

1526
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,636
In our records of recovery group this week,

1527
00:54:08,795 --> 00:54:10,014
somebody made the comment

1528
00:54:10,871 --> 00:54:11,371
that

1529
00:54:12,724 --> 00:54:14,344
they're really doing well. Their

1530
00:54:14,885 --> 00:54:16,644
own personal recovery is going well.

1531
00:54:17,284 --> 00:54:18,025
This person's

1532
00:54:18,484 --> 00:54:22,095
partner who previously was a drinker Their... That

1533
00:54:22,095 --> 00:54:24,487
person's sobriety is going well. That person's recovery

1534
00:54:24,487 --> 00:54:27,117
is going well. And the relationship recovery is

1535
00:54:27,117 --> 00:54:30,083
going well. This is a success stories. That

1536
00:54:30,083 --> 00:54:31,921
this is a couple that we're really we're

1537
00:54:31,921 --> 00:54:33,758
really proud of, and we're excited to see

1538
00:54:33,758 --> 00:54:36,646
what happens next for them. And this a

1539
00:54:36,646 --> 00:54:38,472
person who was a member of our echoes

1540
00:54:38,472 --> 00:54:39,503
of recovery group said,

1541
00:54:41,329 --> 00:54:43,495
I still do the writing in this group

1542
00:54:44,125 --> 00:54:47,324
because it helps me get that residual junk

1543
00:54:47,324 --> 00:54:47,565
out.

1544
00:54:48,525 --> 00:54:50,284
Because 1 things start to go well,

1545
00:54:50,764 --> 00:54:52,684
it's really easy to just focus on the

1546
00:54:52,684 --> 00:54:55,094
good. Look, we made it. Sunshine now we're

1547
00:54:55,094 --> 00:54:57,726
good, but there's still stuff down there, and

1548
00:54:57,806 --> 00:54:59,322
I love that she used the word gunk.

1549
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:01,475
Yeah. There's still the I gotta get out.

1550
00:55:01,714 --> 00:55:04,202
Yeah. And I feel like that's also true

1551
00:55:04,202 --> 00:55:06,674
for you and I with our weekly meetings

1552
00:55:06,674 --> 00:55:08,052
that we continue to have

1553
00:55:08,429 --> 00:55:09,248
even though

1554
00:55:10,024 --> 00:55:12,119
there's no question but that we are both

1555
00:55:12,178 --> 00:55:15,064
individually stronger and also, our relationship is stronger.

1556
00:55:15,543 --> 00:55:16,601
But if we just

1557
00:55:17,138 --> 00:55:19,052
kinda lean and rely on the fact that

1558
00:55:19,052 --> 00:55:20,668
things are better than they used to be

1559
00:55:21,125 --> 00:55:22,901
than that residual gunk

1560
00:55:23,213 --> 00:55:24,111
continues to

1561
00:55:25,042 --> 00:55:26,712
stay stuck and kinda clog things up.

1562
00:55:27,746 --> 00:55:29,734
So the doing the work to get it

1563
00:55:29,734 --> 00:55:31,722
out is important even when you've got most

1564
00:55:31,722 --> 00:55:33,963
of it out. Mh. Keep on going, don't

1565
00:55:33,963 --> 00:55:36,505
you think? I think so. And I gotta

1566
00:55:36,505 --> 00:55:38,729
tell you sitting here across this microphone from

1567
00:55:38,729 --> 00:55:39,547
you, and

1568
00:55:40,254 --> 00:55:42,186
talking it through in this forum and then

1569
00:55:42,402 --> 00:55:44,390
blasting it out to the world. That sure

1570
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:45,583
helps get the gunk out too.

1571
00:55:47,348 --> 00:55:49,338
So thanks for being my d.

1572
00:55:52,681 --> 00:55:54,590
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these

1573
00:55:54,590 --> 00:55:55,466
3 resources.

1574
00:55:56,023 --> 00:55:58,190
If you love, or loved an alcoholic. We

1575
00:55:58,190 --> 00:56:00,423
offer support and connection in our echoes of

1576
00:56:00,423 --> 00:56:03,055
recovery group. Check us out at echoes of

1577
00:56:03,055 --> 00:56:05,687
recovery dot org. If you are a high

1578
00:56:05,687 --> 00:56:08,897
functioning alcoholic, seeking methods and connection in early

1579
00:56:08,897 --> 00:56:09,296
sobriety.

1580
00:56:09,856 --> 00:56:12,253
We're ready for you at shout sobriety dot

1581
00:56:12,253 --> 00:56:14,810
org. No matter who you are. There's something

1582
00:56:14,810 --> 00:56:17,625
for you in our book. Sober revolution, evolve

1583
00:56:17,625 --> 00:56:20,105
into sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage.

1584
00:56:20,664 --> 00:56:23,393
Go to sober revolution dot org. For my

1585
00:56:23,393 --> 00:56:26,173
wife, Sherry Sal, I'm Matt Sal. Thanks for

1586
00:56:26,173 --> 00:56:28,182
listening to the intoxicated podcast.