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Welcome to the intoxicated podcast.

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Well, I'm Sherry Seal, and that was my

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house than Matt. We have questions about the

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impact of alcohol and addiction on relationships. If

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you have those kinds of questions to, you're

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in the right place, Here we go.

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Hey, Sherry. Do you remember that? Question and

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answer session we had for folks who might

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or might not have been interested in our

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shout variety program or our echoes of recovery

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program. We did that back in June. Yeah.

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I do. It was in June. Right? It

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was June. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do again again.

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That sounds fun. How about August? Let's do

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it. Right. But I am itching to go.

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So if we're gonna do it in August.

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It's gotta be August first.

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Your calendar free.

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That work? I think I can make that

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work. Great. No big cat session scheduled August

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first.

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August first, 06:30PM

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in the mountain Daylight, saint mountain daylight... Mountain

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saint, whatever Mountain time,

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06:30PM

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them. The last time we it, we did

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in the morning. Mh. And we had a

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lot of people actually,

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surprised me, how many people join us.

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But we did hear from a lot of

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people that say,

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I can't get out of work, so we're

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gonna do in the evening.

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So

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just to help folks 06:30 Mountain Time is

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08:30 on the East Coast 05:30

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Pacific in

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07:30.

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30 central. So I know. It's some... Some

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people like, a little help with trans

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translation. I sometimes screw up and go the

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wrong direction, but that's my own personal home.

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06:30 Mountain Time, question and answer session, You

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don't have to

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be anything more than just slightly curious to

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join us. There's no commitment. What we're gonna

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do, we're gonna have someone who's is a

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current member of our echoes of of recovery

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program.

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On the Zoom video call with us, along

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with someone who is a current member of

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our shout sobriety program,

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they're gonna tell a little bit of their

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experience with the programs.

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We're gonna give you a little rundown on

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what is involved, and then we're gonna take

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questions. So pretty painless. You can in fact,

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keep your camera off

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and not unmute, and you can even make

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up a fake name. If you would like

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that level of anonymity, you are welcome to

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All you have to do to express interest

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and receive the Zoom link for this August

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first at 06:30 Mountain Time,

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video call is to send an email to

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matt at

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sober and una ashamed dot com.

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And we will not

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reuse that email for any purpose. We won't

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sell it. We won't follow up and pest

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you. You'll give me your email address, get

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the Zoom link, and we will be out

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have after that. So

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we hope we have another big group that

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wants to join us and learn more.

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Sherry, today, we are blessed to be joined

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by friend and

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you know, somebody whose family has been impactful

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on our life,

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and we have worked together in a variety

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of ways. Billy Wynn joins us today on

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the intoxicated podcast. Thanks for being here, billy.

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Thank you. Have, Sherry. Could be with you?

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Billy is the founder and Chairman of impact

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Health policy partners,

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which

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a little research and, you know, looked to

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the blurb on your website. So... You did

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research. I just wanna make sure you know

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how. I'm impressed. A deep I went for

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this.

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It's the only

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and driven public interest government relations firm focused

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on health and well being,

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and we just love that about you. Thank

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you. Billy is also along with his wife

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Christie, who we know and love as well.

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In fact, Christie

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was on 1 of the original guests on

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the intoxicated podcast,

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way back episode 22,

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it was titled gray area drinking with Christy

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Wynn.

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So Billy and Christie together

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founded a week. A sober box

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alcohol free bottle shop and coffee house.

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Here in Denver, you opened in November of

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20 20. That's alright? So coffee out of

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the door. Yeah. Covid. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

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Yeah. That's right and we got coffee. We

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were, like... And then finally, we we worked

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our way in while you were having some

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renovations and it was all getting started. We...

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Nice. We said we know the owners. Can

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we have peak.

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We get a little special tour, you know,

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a special treatment.

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Awake was an absolutely

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really important

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establishment here in Denver,

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sadly closed after about 2 years in August

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of 22,

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And I wanna say public quickly on the

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podcast. What I've told you privately,

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you know, for the restaurant business is hard.

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The bar business is the coffee business is

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hard, but I don't think of what you

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did in terms of

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business

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success or failure. I think of it as

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a huge bold step forward

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to lead our culture out of a generations

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old belief that alcohol is required for socializing.

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Billie, I am a recovered alcohol

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and what was fascinating to me is that

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what I learned is wake was not just

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for me and my kind. It was much

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broader

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It was for anyone who wants an inclusive

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social experience,

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featuring music and people and food and drink

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without the toxicity

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that's how I feel about it. How do

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you feel about it? Thank you. Very much,

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Matt.

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And both of your support while we were

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operating awake and even after I closed it,

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like you said, is a lot to me.

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So thank you so much.

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I do look at as as a success.

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I mean even if it was opened, and

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then it was closed.

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It was incredibly fulfilling and meaningful for me,

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and I got to be present to see

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see

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lots of people having a good time in

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an alcohol free environment.

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I saw people come in with... And look

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at the of

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the bar and have tears in their eyes,

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because they didn't think that a space like

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that was possible.

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They didn't feel comfortable and other social environments,

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and they they, you know, weren't sure that

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they'd ever see that a place like that

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again. So

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it was really,

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I a lot of fun there myself, I

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think and hope that a lot of other

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people did too. And nothing lasts forever. And

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so it was amazing 2 year ride, and

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I'll, I'll, always appreciate if that was a

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part of my life. That's great.

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Address what I said about this was not

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just a place for me.

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Talk about

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what the demographic of the clientele was a

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little bit? And did it surprise you. Did...

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Like, did you target an audience? And that's

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who came and that's it?

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Know it was interesting. So first of all,

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we were... There was, like, the the local

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kinda super local

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crowd that was really there for coffee. Like,

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they wash and they come in and they

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get a latte. And so that's obviously kind

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of a a broader

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spectrum of people in terms of, you know,

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their interest in the people who are coming

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for the alcohol free experience, which primarily in

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the evening. For those people, it was really

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metro

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city wide, really up and down the front

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range and even nationally, mean, people would fly

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to Denver, and I don't wanna say it

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was the sole purpose They came to Denver,

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but they told us. It was a big

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reason that they came to denver, Yeah. Like

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a Pilgrimage to this, you know, 1 of

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a very few alcohol free bar spaces.

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And, among that crowd,

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I would say, I don't know if this

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was a surprise, but it was

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decidedly

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tilted women. So probably 2 thirds to say

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70 percent of the clientele

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was women. And

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I think maybe I speculated Of course Christie

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was my my partner through the whole enterprise

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and

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you know, brought a lot of her own,

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aesthetic and a lot of her own kind

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of perspective on social spaces to it.

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III got I would like to say that...

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And I don't have if you would agree

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this Matt that, women had an more of

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an open mind about experimenting with alcohol freedom

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in a social environment, maybe they weren't sort

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of in full blown recovery, but they were

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they were comfortable in that space of experimenting

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with different social options, then then then are.

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So that might have something to do with

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why our demographic was so heavily women but

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I I would agree with that. Sorry. Go.

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I'm just say another thing is,

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you know, being a woman,

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shocker.

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Turns out you're the only 1 in the

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room.

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I

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think that a lot of them would feel

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very comfortable and safe in the space with

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that. That's what I can remove. Even though

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I'm not a 1 that was gonna say

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that. Go. You know, because they're many times

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where you walk in and there's that 1

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person at the end of the bar that

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just gives you the Willie, and it's only

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happy hour.

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You know, know. So, like, knowing

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our daughter who's 22 and the things that

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she's experiences is a young woman, and the

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things that I experienced is young woman. You

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know, I think that it was also just

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offering a safe space for trying new things.

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I think you're right. I think as was

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are a little bit more open to try

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new things, but also having a safe space

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to try those things.

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Yeah. That makes us... And we did hear

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that from of a lot of our guests.

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And that that actually reminds me. We we

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also had a really

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strong support in the

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Lgbtq community. And some of that was because

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we we started awake in 20 20, and

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it was the summer of George Floyd and

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all things going on and a lot of

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us, you know, Christy and I included doing

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a lot of soul searching about our role

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in in oppression and and all that happens

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in our society. Mh. And so we really

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wanted to make clear that we were welcoming

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all people including

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people in the Lgbtq lgbtq community,

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like we had drag shows and that kind

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thing, which is a lot of fun.

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And we saw a lot of people like

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me. I think for similar reasons, that you

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just described Sherry, that that when you take

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00:09:37,878 --> 00:09:39,235
the alcohol out of it, a lot of

272
00:09:39,235 --> 00:09:41,006
the risks that that they tell me they

273
00:09:41,006 --> 00:09:43,242
face in a more alcohol fueled environment are

274
00:09:43,242 --> 00:09:45,637
are taken away or minimized. And so I

275
00:09:45,637 --> 00:09:47,473
was very proud of that as well. And

276
00:09:47,473 --> 00:09:50,041
and while, you should be, I it in

277
00:09:50,041 --> 00:09:51,873
doing this work it has come to my

278
00:09:51,873 --> 00:09:52,373
attention

279
00:09:52,828 --> 00:09:53,943
or just my awareness,

280
00:09:54,820 --> 00:09:57,369
how infrequently I feel unsafe out there in

281
00:09:57,369 --> 00:09:59,057
the big bad world. Well I'm drinking or

282
00:09:59,057 --> 00:10:00,435
not. Mh. Just

283
00:10:01,450 --> 00:10:03,705
just because I'm a man. Mh. And

284
00:10:04,082 --> 00:10:06,156
we've met so many people for whom there

285
00:10:06,156 --> 00:10:08,070
is a risk just a stepping outside the

286
00:10:08,070 --> 00:10:10,242
door. Mh. And then when you pour alcohol

287
00:10:10,242 --> 00:10:12,499
on top of that, the risk just grows

288
00:10:12,718 --> 00:10:15,115
exponentially. Because of any number of, you know,

289
00:10:15,435 --> 00:10:16,587
access dental or

290
00:10:17,041 --> 00:10:19,030
bad evil intentional things that can happen. And

291
00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:19,530
so

292
00:10:20,462 --> 00:10:23,204
so, yeah, I think I think my perspective

293
00:10:23,339 --> 00:10:24,316
on that has

294
00:10:24,928 --> 00:10:27,494
has just widened in ways that I never

295
00:10:27,550 --> 00:10:30,014
expected, except for through hearing the stories and

296
00:10:30,014 --> 00:10:31,618
and meeting the people that we have. And

297
00:10:31,618 --> 00:10:34,798
so I'm really excited for the... That level

298
00:10:34,798 --> 00:10:36,786
of safety that you you guys created.

299
00:10:37,501 --> 00:10:40,125
Tell me how... So as I... When I

300
00:10:40,125 --> 00:10:41,054
read your bio at the beginning,

301
00:10:42,206 --> 00:10:43,716
we talked about your,

302
00:10:44,431 --> 00:10:44,931
your

303
00:10:45,304 --> 00:10:48,903
involvement in the health policy world. Mh. How

304
00:10:49,118 --> 00:10:51,605
did you go from that to an interest...

305
00:10:51,924 --> 00:10:54,078
Not just an interest in, Yeah but having

306
00:10:54,078 --> 00:10:57,372
the, you know, C to go forward and

307
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:59,121
start this thing called Waco wake Denver? How

308
00:10:59,121 --> 00:11:00,079
do you get from point a to point

309
00:11:00,079 --> 00:11:02,394
b? Yeah. Well, so so... Yeah. So my

310
00:11:02,394 --> 00:11:04,709
career historically had been in in healthcare care

311
00:11:04,709 --> 00:11:07,279
policy? And I've I've been with different in

312
00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:08,797
for the last several years it had my

313
00:11:08,797 --> 00:11:10,475
own firm and now just this year have

314
00:11:10,475 --> 00:11:12,713
a new partner, but it's always been focused

315
00:11:12,713 --> 00:11:14,791
on primarily what the federal government is doing

316
00:11:14,791 --> 00:11:17,043
in the healthcare arena and with a strong

317
00:11:17,043 --> 00:11:17,942
tilt toward

318
00:11:18,321 --> 00:11:20,239
expanding access to to health care,

319
00:11:21,038 --> 00:11:22,577
and particularly for vulnerable

320
00:11:23,036 --> 00:11:24,049
populations and where there's there's

321
00:11:25,447 --> 00:11:27,285
we're lacking some equity in our current system.

322
00:11:27,445 --> 00:11:28,823
Mh. And so

323
00:11:29,202 --> 00:11:30,880
when I quit drinking alcohol,

324
00:11:31,850 --> 00:11:32,644
and I

325
00:11:34,393 --> 00:11:36,460
had an opportunity to have people managing some

326
00:11:36,460 --> 00:11:38,208
of the day to day, you know, work

327
00:11:38,208 --> 00:11:39,559
of my firm at the time,

328
00:11:40,687 --> 00:11:42,592
something that I wanted to do was think

329
00:11:42,592 --> 00:11:44,655
about this in more of a systemic level,

330
00:11:45,132 --> 00:11:47,592
and not, you know, it's really a aggregation

331
00:11:47,592 --> 00:11:49,434
of a lot of individual choices people are

332
00:11:49,434 --> 00:11:52,464
baking, right, around alcohol, but also we have

333
00:11:52,464 --> 00:11:55,813
a society that, you know, not so suddenly

334
00:11:55,813 --> 00:11:57,726
tells us that not only that it's okay

335
00:11:57,726 --> 00:11:59,656
to drink alcohol, but something's wrong if we're

336
00:11:59,656 --> 00:12:02,450
not drinking alcohol. Yeah. And so, Christine and

337
00:12:02,530 --> 00:12:03,009
I, you know,

338
00:12:03,807 --> 00:12:05,643
as when you when you step away from

339
00:12:05,643 --> 00:12:07,734
that as you might when you stop drinking.

340
00:12:09,012 --> 00:12:11,169
It's really startling. You know? So so we

341
00:12:11,169 --> 00:12:12,788
wanted to to not only

342
00:12:13,406 --> 00:12:14,705
stop drinking ourselves

343
00:12:15,416 --> 00:12:17,797
and, we wanted to help others, you know,

344
00:12:17,956 --> 00:12:19,861
make that choice and create space for others

345
00:12:19,861 --> 00:12:22,005
to make that choice. And normalize that choice,

346
00:12:22,974 --> 00:12:25,291
and hopefully help grow it, you know,

347
00:12:26,170 --> 00:12:28,488
so that, you know, people like Christian and

348
00:12:28,568 --> 00:12:30,805
I, who didn't come to some kind of

349
00:12:30,805 --> 00:12:32,897
abrupt, end the line and decide, you know,

350
00:12:33,137 --> 00:12:34,815
look kinda like, we had to quit. Maybe

351
00:12:34,815 --> 00:12:36,813
we did, but we didn't think about it

352
00:12:36,813 --> 00:12:38,251
that way. We felt like it was more

353
00:12:38,251 --> 00:12:40,183
of a choice. Mh. And so wanted to

354
00:12:40,183 --> 00:12:42,019
create that kind of avenue for people who

355
00:12:42,019 --> 00:12:43,775
are interested in making that choice to say

356
00:12:43,775 --> 00:12:45,053
you can still go out, you can still

357
00:12:45,053 --> 00:12:46,410
have fun. You can still listen to music.

358
00:12:46,809 --> 00:12:48,485
You can still have a sophisticated drinking,

359
00:12:49,297 --> 00:12:52,319
tasting beverage. And so that that, you know,

360
00:12:52,478 --> 00:12:54,785
kind of momentum from my career of looking

361
00:12:54,785 --> 00:12:57,660
at health and wellness a systemic perspective, I

362
00:12:57,660 --> 00:13:00,281
think is what inspired me to do awake.

363
00:13:01,551 --> 00:13:04,427
Absolutely. I so I... As I said, earlier,

364
00:13:05,065 --> 00:13:08,753
I am comfortable with calling myself a recovered

365
00:13:08,811 --> 00:13:11,122
alcoholic. I know that you prefer to consider

366
00:13:11,122 --> 00:13:13,215
yourself to be alcohol free. Does it have

367
00:13:13,215 --> 00:13:14,575
to do with what you just alluded to,

368
00:13:14,654 --> 00:13:16,495
the fact that there wasn't some big crash

369
00:13:16,495 --> 00:13:18,095
and burn rock bottom?

370
00:13:18,815 --> 00:13:20,710
Why do you choose that label as opposed

371
00:13:20,909 --> 00:13:21,409
to

372
00:13:21,787 --> 00:13:23,462
you know, the other myriad of labels that

373
00:13:23,462 --> 00:13:25,298
are out there are available. Sure. I guess

374
00:13:25,298 --> 00:13:27,691
for 1 thing for me, it's the simplest

375
00:13:27,691 --> 00:13:30,504
and the clearest. You know, it... I... In

376
00:13:30,665 --> 00:13:31,884
January of 20

377
00:13:33,225 --> 00:13:36,024
19, I decided to stop drinking, and I

378
00:13:36,024 --> 00:13:38,615
haven't drank since. And so I'm free of

379
00:13:38,671 --> 00:13:38,829
alcohol.

380
00:13:39,703 --> 00:13:41,291
I didn't have a...

381
00:13:42,483 --> 00:13:44,071
I think part of it is the the

382
00:13:44,071 --> 00:13:45,342
the maybe the lack of kind of the

383
00:13:45,342 --> 00:13:47,263
dead end type of experience, at least as

384
00:13:47,263 --> 00:13:48,536
far as I could was... You kind of

385
00:13:48,536 --> 00:13:49,570
consciously aware of. Mh.

386
00:13:50,445 --> 00:13:51,877
Then I did it didn't go along with

387
00:13:51,877 --> 00:13:53,945
it a really strong judgment about every other

388
00:13:53,945 --> 00:13:56,695
pop substance that some people might consider into.

389
00:13:57,232 --> 00:13:59,467
And so, there are lots and lots of

390
00:13:59,467 --> 00:14:01,702
things that I that I don't do, some

391
00:14:01,702 --> 00:14:03,388
of which because I think they're dangerous, some

392
00:14:03,388 --> 00:14:04,893
of which because I think they're harmful, some

393
00:14:04,893 --> 00:14:06,953
of which I just simply don't enjoy. Mh.

394
00:14:07,587 --> 00:14:09,806
But there are some other things that I

395
00:14:09,806 --> 00:14:11,328
know a lot of people in the alcohol

396
00:14:11,328 --> 00:14:13,787
for your community, you know, sort of lumped

397
00:14:13,787 --> 00:14:15,453
together with alcohol that for me,

398
00:14:16,008 --> 00:14:17,771
it has very different and Have a very

399
00:14:17,771 --> 00:14:19,999
different mindset about about that substance. And so

400
00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:22,944
I'm open to, you know, engaging with them,

401
00:14:23,581 --> 00:14:25,745
still in a very moderate very rare kind

402
00:14:25,745 --> 00:14:26,303
of occasion,

403
00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:29,591
but it doesn't feel a contradictory to my,

404
00:14:30,127 --> 00:14:32,713
alcohol free lifestyle. I like that. It's specific

405
00:14:32,929 --> 00:14:34,522
alcohol free. There's not a lot of ambiguity

406
00:14:34,522 --> 00:14:36,034
there. It'd be hard for someone to be

407
00:14:36,034 --> 00:14:38,661
confused about the decision you made around alcohol.

408
00:14:39,059 --> 00:14:40,983
That makes a ton of sense. Sobriety is

409
00:14:40,983 --> 00:14:44,241
so loaded. Mh. Cali sober. Love that. Love

410
00:14:44,241 --> 00:14:44,900
that turn.

411
00:14:45,831 --> 00:14:48,074
Among others. Correct. But, yeah. They're that makes

412
00:14:48,074 --> 00:14:49,113
that makes a ton of sense.

413
00:14:50,391 --> 00:14:52,649
Okay. So let's let's get into

414
00:14:54,227 --> 00:14:56,405
not just awake because you have

415
00:14:56,717 --> 00:14:58,935
you know, obviously, if you're gonna get into

416
00:14:58,935 --> 00:15:00,307
something like this, and

417
00:15:01,154 --> 00:15:03,214
you are a researcher or you're a pure

418
00:15:03,214 --> 00:15:03,531
smart guy.

419
00:15:04,263 --> 00:15:06,738
You looked at more than just what's happening

420
00:15:06,738 --> 00:15:08,414
in Denver. Mh you... I think you have

421
00:15:08,414 --> 00:15:10,649
a broader perspective, which is why we brought

422
00:15:10,649 --> 00:15:12,539
you here because this is not a Denver

423
00:15:12,659 --> 00:15:13,953
gas. Right? This is a

424
00:15:14,486 --> 00:15:16,654
as a much wider audience than Denver. So

425
00:15:17,186 --> 00:15:18,401
there used to be

426
00:15:18,775 --> 00:15:20,920
for, you know, 3 or 4 or 5

427
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,636
choices of non alcohol like beer. And when

428
00:15:23,716 --> 00:15:24,669
I quit drinking,

429
00:15:26,338 --> 00:15:28,563
not the... Not this time, not 7 and

430
00:15:28,563 --> 00:15:30,589
a half years ago, but as a previous

431
00:15:30,647 --> 00:15:33,277
attempt. Yeah. I decided at 1 point. I'm

432
00:15:33,277 --> 00:15:35,589
gonna get really into non alcoholic bid. That's

433
00:15:35,589 --> 00:15:37,581
gonna be... Because I had an identity crisis.

434
00:15:39,029 --> 00:15:41,178
Not drinking alcohol. I didn't know who I

435
00:15:41,178 --> 00:15:42,951
was anymore because I so associated

436
00:15:43,326 --> 00:15:44,917
sadly. I mean, it sounds pathetic to me

437
00:15:44,917 --> 00:15:46,269
now, but at the time,

438
00:15:47,319 --> 00:15:49,307
It's just the fact. I so associated who

439
00:15:49,387 --> 00:15:52,091
I was with what I was drinking. And

440
00:15:52,091 --> 00:15:52,591
so

441
00:15:52,966 --> 00:15:55,034
part of dealing with my identity crisis as

442
00:15:55,034 --> 00:15:55,804
a sober person

443
00:15:56,485 --> 00:15:58,325
was to decide I was gonna become a

444
00:15:58,325 --> 00:16:01,284
con of all non alcoholic beers, which at

445
00:16:01,284 --> 00:16:02,345
the time was.

446
00:16:03,365 --> 00:16:04,804
I think there was a saint Polly girls.

447
00:16:05,044 --> 00:16:08,033
Mh. There was a there was a guinness

448
00:16:08,171 --> 00:16:10,164
version that was never available anywhere. I could

449
00:16:10,164 --> 00:16:11,759
never find it. But I you find it

450
00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:14,231
in the in, like, bars in the Ann

451
00:16:14,231 --> 00:16:16,713
arbor area because we had friends that lives

452
00:16:16,713 --> 00:16:18,701
there and I was pregnant once we went.

453
00:16:18,939 --> 00:16:20,688
I was like, oh, caliber, or we could

454
00:16:20,688 --> 00:16:22,835
find it again. And our friend told us

455
00:16:22,835 --> 00:16:24,107
about it because she had lived in saint.

456
00:16:24,266 --> 00:16:25,951
Paul. That's another place you can find it.

457
00:16:26,429 --> 00:16:28,656
I once while we're on this topic. I

458
00:16:28,656 --> 00:16:30,667
was at Coo field. I was the designated

459
00:16:30,804 --> 00:16:31,122
driver,

460
00:16:31,773 --> 00:16:33,942
a bunch of drunk, which is another entirely

461
00:16:33,998 --> 00:16:35,825
different story and and 1 of the worst

462
00:16:35,825 --> 00:16:37,732
nights in my life to be perfectly honest

463
00:16:37,732 --> 00:16:40,298
about it. But I walked the whole perimeter

464
00:16:40,769 --> 00:16:43,746
of the Concourse. Yeah. Looking for the rumored

465
00:16:43,885 --> 00:16:46,362
non alcoholic coo beer that they had. I

466
00:16:46,362 --> 00:16:47,800
finally did find it. It was, you know,

467
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,075
they... What they cell beer, probably at

468
00:16:50,695 --> 00:16:53,495
80 different locations around the Concourse. 1 of

469
00:16:53,495 --> 00:16:56,054
the 80 had a non alcoholic course. 20

470
00:16:56,054 --> 00:16:58,465
step, it it's like 20 steps that's of

471
00:16:58,465 --> 00:17:00,859
beer and 20 so more. There's more beer.

472
00:17:01,258 --> 00:17:03,173
But think about how far we've come from

473
00:17:03,173 --> 00:17:05,765
that. 4 or 5 not very tasty choices

474
00:17:06,384 --> 00:17:07,444
to what has happened

475
00:17:07,984 --> 00:17:10,144
and to let our listeners know who might

476
00:17:10,144 --> 00:17:12,440
not know. The the market has just exploded

477
00:17:12,639 --> 00:17:14,633
It has no doubt. To what do you

478
00:17:14,633 --> 00:17:17,823
attribute that? I think that you know, number

479
00:17:17,823 --> 00:17:19,817
1, it it seems like the technology has

480
00:17:19,817 --> 00:17:21,333
advanced a little bit. So, yeah, you can

481
00:17:21,333 --> 00:17:23,260
down get, you know, an Ip or, you

482
00:17:23,260 --> 00:17:25,567
know, all these different types of styles and

483
00:17:25,567 --> 00:17:27,237
flavors, and that's just beer.

484
00:17:28,430 --> 00:17:31,232
I think also the just this growing interest

485
00:17:31,232 --> 00:17:32,688
and acceptance of,

486
00:17:33,383 --> 00:17:35,374
you know, making an alcohol choice. Again, whether

487
00:17:35,374 --> 00:17:36,545
it's for the rest of your life or

488
00:17:36,744 --> 00:17:38,419
just 1 night. I think that there's just

489
00:17:38,419 --> 00:17:40,195
for, you know, the a social

490
00:17:41,131 --> 00:17:44,640
evolution going on that embraces that choice. And

491
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,730
so the market is meeting that. And what...

492
00:17:46,890 --> 00:17:47,769
It's a bit of a chicken in the

493
00:17:47,769 --> 00:17:49,289
ag, because all even for me,

494
00:17:50,009 --> 00:17:52,009
I would say part of certainly what inspired

495
00:17:52,009 --> 00:17:54,650
awake and maybe even partially inspired my decision

496
00:17:54,650 --> 00:17:55,630
to stop drinking

497
00:17:56,009 --> 00:17:59,046
was the burg availability of alcohol free products.

498
00:17:59,205 --> 00:18:01,589
And what I I perceived to be this

499
00:18:01,589 --> 00:18:03,179
kind of going along with that,

500
00:18:03,894 --> 00:18:05,109
the idea that

501
00:18:05,498 --> 00:18:07,086
not drinking was suddenly kind of a cool

502
00:18:07,086 --> 00:18:09,309
thing. You know? It wasn't like, you know,

503
00:18:09,468 --> 00:18:10,977
bad. It wasn't necessarily this like,

504
00:18:12,089 --> 00:18:14,331
kinda sad thing or a negative thing. It

505
00:18:14,331 --> 00:18:15,448
was like this new,

506
00:18:16,405 --> 00:18:18,878
exciting and interesting lifestyle that somebody could have,

507
00:18:19,037 --> 00:18:21,031
and there was products there and and beverages

508
00:18:21,031 --> 00:18:22,467
there that would support that.

509
00:18:23,597 --> 00:18:25,583
So, yeah. And it's been... In that, you

510
00:18:25,583 --> 00:18:26,378
know, it really...

511
00:18:27,172 --> 00:18:29,317
At the very least enabled a bar, like,

512
00:18:29,634 --> 00:18:31,461
away to exist because you can't really exist

513
00:18:31,461 --> 00:18:32,574
on 4 beers and, you know,

514
00:18:33,624 --> 00:18:35,539
Club Soda. Right. You're gonna have some interesting

515
00:18:35,539 --> 00:18:37,934
choices for people. So, you know, we, we

516
00:18:37,934 --> 00:18:39,212
can get into as much detail as you

517
00:18:39,212 --> 00:18:41,207
want. But, you know, the even wine, that's

518
00:18:41,207 --> 00:18:42,978
the hardest thing to do. I'd I think.

519
00:18:43,137 --> 00:18:45,687
But and then spirits and both spirits that,

520
00:18:45,767 --> 00:18:46,665
you know, mimic

521
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,511
existing kind of alcohol based flavors and lots

522
00:18:49,511 --> 00:18:51,981
and lots of beautiful botanical spirits that don't

523
00:18:51,981 --> 00:18:54,385
try to make existing alcohol flavors. So, you

524
00:18:54,385 --> 00:18:56,874
know, we had a full 3 shelves of

525
00:18:57,409 --> 00:19:00,673
amazing drinks there, and, it was pretty site

526
00:19:00,673 --> 00:19:02,677
and created a lot of interesting on the

527
00:19:02,677 --> 00:19:04,903
menu. Mh. I have a... Sorry to quick

528
00:19:04,903 --> 00:19:08,082
question. Are those called shrubs, the herbal eli.

529
00:19:08,321 --> 00:19:10,626
There are... Shrubs is is 1 type of

530
00:19:10,626 --> 00:19:13,275
of, yeah. 1 type of beverage and often

531
00:19:13,275 --> 00:19:15,115
used in mixing usually other things.

532
00:19:16,075 --> 00:19:17,355
So... And that that was that was a

533
00:19:17,355 --> 00:19:19,275
work that I learned when I started to

534
00:19:19,275 --> 00:19:21,369
found wake. I'm not, like, wasn't a, you

535
00:19:21,369 --> 00:19:22,650
know, didn't know a lot about bar or

536
00:19:22,650 --> 00:19:24,029
anything like that. But

537
00:19:24,410 --> 00:19:26,570
yeah. Shrubs are something that even even, you

538
00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:29,690
know, alcohol based bartender will use sometimes to

539
00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:31,541
kinda different flavor. Well Matt and I were

540
00:19:31,541 --> 00:19:33,298
our tenders in college. So I always found

541
00:19:33,298 --> 00:19:35,294
it very fascinating, and I remember walking in

542
00:19:35,294 --> 00:19:36,811
like, oh, look at it looks so pretty,

543
00:19:36,970 --> 00:19:38,407
and it's all I'll alcohol free.

544
00:19:39,046 --> 00:19:41,054
You can have fancy drinks. It does look

545
00:19:41,054 --> 00:19:42,988
pretty. And that leads kind of into my

546
00:19:43,204 --> 00:19:43,921
next question.

547
00:19:45,514 --> 00:19:47,982
When you talk about things that do mimic,

548
00:19:48,381 --> 00:19:51,111
they're alcohol companion. Mh. Or things that don't.

549
00:19:51,271 --> 00:19:53,588
Mh. I find it kind of intriguing. I

550
00:19:53,588 --> 00:19:55,766
mean, Gin is like an objectively

551
00:19:56,305 --> 00:19:59,432
bad tasting thing. Right? Now I drink enough

552
00:19:59,432 --> 00:20:01,188
jen that I loved this. Right? I would've

553
00:20:01,188 --> 00:20:02,864
bought you. I would've have walked over hot

554
00:20:02,864 --> 00:20:04,380
coals for gin at 1 point in my

555
00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:07,490
life. But it... But it it... I just

556
00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:09,314
I'm so curious. If you're going to try

557
00:20:09,314 --> 00:20:10,821
to make a fancy drink and make it

558
00:20:10,821 --> 00:20:13,058
feel inclusive and make people feel like they

559
00:20:13,058 --> 00:20:14,809
have an option that's other than club soda.

560
00:20:15,048 --> 00:20:15,286
Yeah.

561
00:20:16,162 --> 00:20:17,992
The fact that 1 of them is designed

562
00:20:17,992 --> 00:20:19,982
to taste like gen or tequila kinda falls

563
00:20:19,982 --> 00:20:22,472
into that category too. Yeah. Is this

564
00:20:23,023 --> 00:20:24,699
is this, you know, the kind of the

565
00:20:24,699 --> 00:20:26,694
target audience for that is people like me

566
00:20:26,694 --> 00:20:28,050
that used to drink gin and love it

567
00:20:28,050 --> 00:20:30,045
and and feel like they're missing something now

568
00:20:30,125 --> 00:20:32,049
Do you have like, talk about your... Yeah.

569
00:20:32,288 --> 00:20:34,673
You're... Like, are people... Are they sitting with

570
00:20:34,673 --> 00:20:36,740
the bar every day after work and just

571
00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:38,409
pounding not out outgoing gems?

572
00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:42,722
I maybe some people are. You know, I

573
00:20:42,961 --> 00:20:44,794
I don't... It's... I don't have a final

574
00:20:44,794 --> 00:20:46,387
answer about that. I, I do say that

575
00:20:46,467 --> 00:20:49,016
I I enjoy both the the spirits that

576
00:20:49,667 --> 00:20:51,656
You know, the old flavors that are also

577
00:20:51,656 --> 00:20:53,565
used to drink a lot of and and

578
00:20:53,565 --> 00:20:54,281
those that don't.

579
00:20:55,395 --> 00:20:58,348
I, you know, every blue moon, I will

580
00:20:58,348 --> 00:21:01,047
put some Monday gin on alcohol gin, You

581
00:21:01,047 --> 00:21:02,555
know, shake it up in ice. I used

582
00:21:02,555 --> 00:21:04,240
to be a big martini guy. I'll a

583
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,599
martini teeny glass, and I'll do a twist,

584
00:21:05,759 --> 00:21:07,279
and I'll I'll have a ball in that.

585
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:08,160
Mh. You know,

586
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:09,200
beverage.

587
00:21:10,079 --> 00:21:12,400
And is that is that due to some

588
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,971
weird nostalgia you know, for those Friday afternoons,

589
00:21:15,051 --> 00:21:16,568
where I would get hammered. You know, maybe.

590
00:21:16,808 --> 00:21:18,883
I don't know, and maybe that's not super

591
00:21:18,883 --> 00:21:21,758
healthy. I don't know. You know, or it

592
00:21:21,758 --> 00:21:23,528
was... You know, there's a ritual side to

593
00:21:23,528 --> 00:21:25,116
it. Right And I've I've got the same

594
00:21:25,116 --> 00:21:28,054
ritual that I enjoyed, and I'm just extracting

595
00:21:28,054 --> 00:21:30,595
that harmful, you know, addicted chemical out of

596
00:21:30,595 --> 00:21:32,440
the ritual and so it's it's, you know,

597
00:21:32,759 --> 00:21:34,354
that feels healthy to put it that way.

598
00:21:34,673 --> 00:21:36,267
So I don't I don't know. You know,

599
00:21:36,506 --> 00:21:37,702
this like this and everything that you know,

600
00:21:37,782 --> 00:21:40,348
people to figure out what they enjoy and

601
00:21:40,348 --> 00:21:42,664
what, you know, is healthy and supports their,

602
00:21:43,063 --> 00:21:45,298
you know, well being. And I... For me,

603
00:21:45,538 --> 00:21:46,895
I'm kind of open to all of it.

604
00:21:47,693 --> 00:21:49,051
I'm... Most of the time, I'm just a

605
00:21:49,051 --> 00:21:51,065
beer guy. Like, you know, high 0 or

606
00:21:51,144 --> 00:21:52,904
I like an athletic or whatever. But,

607
00:21:54,505 --> 00:21:55,865
every now and then I do get a

608
00:21:55,865 --> 00:21:57,945
bug to make a little alcohol free cocktail

609
00:21:57,945 --> 00:21:58,917
and enjoy that too.

610
00:22:00,032 --> 00:22:02,422
There's a lot of buzz in the recovery

611
00:22:02,422 --> 00:22:02,922
community

612
00:22:03,538 --> 00:22:06,761
about this potentially being a slippery drinking non

613
00:22:06,817 --> 00:22:07,056
alcoholic,

614
00:22:07,931 --> 00:22:08,431
mimicking,

615
00:22:09,124 --> 00:22:10,158
alcohol mimicking beverages,

616
00:22:11,192 --> 00:22:12,599
including how alcohol spares all of

617
00:22:13,679 --> 00:22:15,919
beer and spirits and Well, it's that identity

618
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:18,000
piece that. Yeah. You know, you're not shaking

619
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:18,819
that as

620
00:22:19,679 --> 00:22:21,599
is enough and healing and recovery, I think

621
00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:24,486
is what is concerning to partners. Yeah. I

622
00:22:24,486 --> 00:22:25,921
mean, I think like if they continue to

623
00:22:25,921 --> 00:22:28,153
drink the non alcoholic things. And like you,

624
00:22:28,312 --> 00:22:30,440
mad, you will drink anything. Add add a

625
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:31,988
mass paste. It doesn't matter if it's bubbly

626
00:22:31,988 --> 00:22:35,721
water, coffee, decaf coffee, iced tea, tea, it's

627
00:22:35,721 --> 00:22:37,945
gone. Well, and that's why it was important

628
00:22:37,945 --> 00:22:40,129
for me to stay away from Gin because

629
00:22:40,266 --> 00:22:41,618
it didn't matter if it was a light

630
00:22:41,618 --> 00:22:42,811
beer or gin. It was going down at

631
00:22:42,811 --> 00:22:46,168
the same case. So... But did you face

632
00:22:46,168 --> 00:22:47,922
any kind of push pushback? Did you face

633
00:22:47,922 --> 00:22:50,633
any kind of... Did did people race concern?

634
00:22:50,712 --> 00:22:51,988
Like, what are you doing here? Man, You're

635
00:22:51,988 --> 00:22:54,515
making it really easy for the alcoholic to

636
00:22:54,634 --> 00:22:56,881
laps. Did you get any of that? Definitely.

637
00:22:57,176 --> 00:22:59,344
Yes. And and that was something I wasn't

638
00:22:59,718 --> 00:23:00,115
prepared for.

639
00:23:00,909 --> 00:23:02,816
And and I think part of it had

640
00:23:02,816 --> 00:23:04,086
to do with that I didn't go through

641
00:23:04,086 --> 00:23:06,648
a additional recovery mh program. I didn't do

642
00:23:06,728 --> 00:23:08,558
Aa. And so I didn't I didn't know

643
00:23:08,558 --> 00:23:10,628
a lot about that culture. And I think...

644
00:23:10,787 --> 00:23:12,061
And not not that it's monolithic.

645
00:23:12,474 --> 00:23:14,223
By any stretch. Lots and lots of different

646
00:23:14,223 --> 00:23:17,165
types of recovery groups and Aa groups and

647
00:23:17,563 --> 00:23:18,040
and

648
00:23:18,597 --> 00:23:20,028
so 1 thing we did here,

649
00:23:20,903 --> 00:23:23,650
a lot was was really kind of 2

650
00:23:23,950 --> 00:23:24,450
different

651
00:23:24,910 --> 00:23:27,630
related things. 1 was some of the alcohol

652
00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:30,524
free beers and alcohol free spirits aren't don't

653
00:23:30,524 --> 00:23:32,224
have 000

654
00:23:32,284 --> 00:23:34,784
alcohol. They have less than 0.5 percent, which

655
00:23:34,845 --> 00:23:36,684
as probably many of your listeners know is

656
00:23:36,684 --> 00:23:38,854
technically what the threat this for calling something,

657
00:23:39,251 --> 00:23:40,206
not an alcoholic.

658
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,150
But then, also, yeah, the flavor profile, there

659
00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:45,002
was also this kind of, you know, social

660
00:23:45,550 --> 00:23:48,169
concern that even even if there's 0 alcohol

661
00:23:48,169 --> 00:23:48,566
at all,

662
00:23:49,756 --> 00:23:51,684
the taste to the in the and the

663
00:23:51,739 --> 00:23:53,821
environment of being and, you know, we we

664
00:23:53,821 --> 00:23:56,367
intentionally recreated a bar environment. Right? Music and

665
00:23:56,367 --> 00:23:57,799
a bar and, like, you know, that was

666
00:23:57,799 --> 00:23:59,628
what we intended to do. So there were

667
00:23:59,628 --> 00:24:02,112
definitely people who felt like just that environment

668
00:24:02,112 --> 00:24:04,507
could be potentially triggering for people and kinda

669
00:24:04,507 --> 00:24:06,981
move them off off course. So... And we

670
00:24:06,981 --> 00:24:07,460
we had

671
00:24:08,019 --> 00:24:09,935
you know, 1 star, Google reviews from people

672
00:24:09,935 --> 00:24:11,941
who didn't even go there, but just just

673
00:24:11,941 --> 00:24:14,569
did not like the the philosophy concept of

674
00:24:14,569 --> 00:24:15,206
being concept.

675
00:24:15,843 --> 00:24:17,913
So... And, you know, we're where we landed

676
00:24:17,913 --> 00:24:20,078
with that number 1 we were we we

677
00:24:20,078 --> 00:24:22,090
were increasingly clear and

678
00:24:22,465 --> 00:24:22,783
you know,

679
00:24:23,739 --> 00:24:26,763
vocal about which products were 0 and which

680
00:24:26,763 --> 00:24:29,085
products were, you know, between 0 0 and

681
00:24:29,085 --> 00:24:30,992
0.5. And and so we even... We had

682
00:24:30,992 --> 00:24:32,979
a 0 menu. So if that was important

683
00:24:32,979 --> 00:24:34,966
to people, they would only be looking at

684
00:24:34,966 --> 00:24:36,000
those types of products.

685
00:24:36,715 --> 00:24:38,640
And we also just landed in the in

686
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,110
and embracing the fact that Wake was not

687
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:43,022
gonna be for everybody and not gonna be

688
00:24:43,022 --> 00:24:44,057
for a lot of people, and we had

689
00:24:44,057 --> 00:24:46,846
to trust, you know, people's judgment. If if

690
00:24:46,846 --> 00:24:49,009
you and where we... And we even... We

691
00:24:49,009 --> 00:24:50,600
adopted this, I think on our website at

692
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,191
some point, it was just like, if you

693
00:24:52,191 --> 00:24:54,234
think it might be uncomfortable for you or,

694
00:24:54,514 --> 00:24:56,272
you know, please don't come. Right? I mean,

695
00:24:56,432 --> 00:24:57,971
I if if it if it if it's

696
00:24:58,510 --> 00:25:00,987
if it feels like ambiguous or, you know,

697
00:25:01,067 --> 00:25:02,905
you're not sure, then air on the side

698
00:25:02,905 --> 00:25:04,916
of caution, last thing we wanna do is

699
00:25:04,916 --> 00:25:07,149
any harm to anyone or, you know, people

700
00:25:07,149 --> 00:25:07,809
trying to

701
00:25:09,382 --> 00:25:09,701
you know,

702
00:25:10,499 --> 00:25:12,334
improve their lives by moving away from alcohol.

703
00:25:12,573 --> 00:25:13,664
Yeah. Just these

704
00:25:14,581 --> 00:25:16,015
there's been. This is 1 of the few

705
00:25:16,015 --> 00:25:17,926
areas where I don't have a strong opinion.

706
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,467
As far as this slippery slope whole concept,

707
00:25:22,706 --> 00:25:25,119
Mh. But I do have a few experiences.

708
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,659
I mostly don't

709
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,839
drink... I... Mostly drink bubbly water because it's

710
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:32,333
basically free. Mh. And what... I'd like to

711
00:25:32,333 --> 00:25:33,526
get into this in it in a bit.

712
00:25:34,003 --> 00:25:37,024
But with d alcohol something that was made

713
00:25:37,024 --> 00:25:39,171
with alcohol is not cheap. And so this

714
00:25:39,171 --> 00:25:42,207
stuff isn't basically free. And so knows Matt

715
00:25:42,207 --> 00:25:44,753
is cheese. I am not gonna use rub.

716
00:25:44,912 --> 00:25:47,298
And I don't want not conservative. Calories either,

717
00:25:47,457 --> 00:25:49,698
but mostly I am cheese. But I was

718
00:25:49,698 --> 00:25:51,047
actually out Awake. I had a friend and

719
00:25:51,126 --> 00:25:51,919
Tom from Phoenix,

720
00:25:52,554 --> 00:25:55,038
and it was, like, 1 of these id

721
00:25:55,093 --> 00:25:56,936
situations. Right? It was a sunny Saturday. We

722
00:25:56,936 --> 00:26:00,601
sat outside. Mh And we we had lunch.

723
00:26:00,761 --> 00:26:02,434
And while we were eating, I had 2

724
00:26:02,753 --> 00:26:03,253
Ipa

725
00:26:03,881 --> 00:26:06,578
and I felt this non a bizarre. Yeah.

726
00:26:06,736 --> 00:26:08,164
Not... Well, obviously say Was there a way.

727
00:26:08,322 --> 00:26:09,987
Well, I just wanna I remind people. I

728
00:26:09,987 --> 00:26:10,646
had this

729
00:26:11,018 --> 00:26:11,470
bizarre

730
00:26:11,988 --> 00:26:14,139
like, paying to order a third, and I'm

731
00:26:14,139 --> 00:26:16,211
like, u. These aren't cheap. What are you

732
00:26:16,211 --> 00:26:17,885
doing? I didn't I didn't end doing it,

733
00:26:17,964 --> 00:26:19,295
but I was like, where is this coming

734
00:26:19,414 --> 00:26:21,244
from. There's no alcohol in this. Yeah. But

735
00:26:21,404 --> 00:26:23,075
I think the flavor profile is close enough,

736
00:26:23,632 --> 00:26:25,463
that it clicked something in my head. It

737
00:26:25,463 --> 00:26:27,029
didn't cause a relapse It didn't come close

738
00:26:27,228 --> 00:26:29,615
to causing a relapse. Yeah. But but there

739
00:26:29,615 --> 00:26:31,524
is something about that nostalgia.

740
00:26:32,081 --> 00:26:32,581
And

741
00:26:33,115 --> 00:26:34,706
I think that can... I I come down

742
00:26:34,706 --> 00:26:36,154
on that can be a good thing a

743
00:26:36,154 --> 00:26:37,755
bad thing. If you're. Grumpy and you've had

744
00:26:37,755 --> 00:26:39,194
a bad day and you have any sleep,

745
00:26:39,674 --> 00:26:41,434
and then you get this nostalgic pull to

746
00:26:41,434 --> 00:26:43,355
drink gin, that's probably a not a great

747
00:26:43,355 --> 00:26:45,684
thing. But if it... The circumstances are right,

748
00:26:46,802 --> 00:26:47,520
it can be great.

749
00:26:48,318 --> 00:26:51,111
Even beyond the wake, you you just... You

750
00:26:51,111 --> 00:26:53,200
mentioned that you'll make a Martini sometimes. Mh.

751
00:26:53,918 --> 00:26:55,991
Do you continue to consume some of the

752
00:26:55,991 --> 00:26:58,225
awesome products that you learned about on a

753
00:26:58,225 --> 00:27:00,857
regular basis. How you handle? Well, not on

754
00:27:00,857 --> 00:27:02,700
a regular basis, and that's that's another kind

755
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:04,602
of interesting thing. I mean, like, and Christian

756
00:27:04,602 --> 00:27:06,821
and I both have remarked on this that,

757
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:08,644
you know, we we created this bar, and

758
00:27:08,644 --> 00:27:09,933
we would go And of course we would

759
00:27:09,933 --> 00:27:11,529
drink the drinks when we were there. But

760
00:27:11,529 --> 00:27:13,785
then we didn't... We didn't... And and

761
00:27:14,243 --> 00:27:15,361
I mean, we probably have a lot more

762
00:27:15,361 --> 00:27:17,037
non alcoholic products in our home than, you

763
00:27:17,037 --> 00:27:18,729
know, the average person does. But I mean,

764
00:27:18,809 --> 00:27:20,486
but we didn't have, like, this big stock

765
00:27:20,486 --> 00:27:23,203
home bar of alcohol free, XYNZ and we're

766
00:27:23,203 --> 00:27:25,772
like every day or even every week. Really,

767
00:27:25,852 --> 00:27:26,169
you know,

768
00:27:26,883 --> 00:27:29,184
going and and making ourselves alcohol free beverages

769
00:27:29,184 --> 00:27:30,057
or grabbing a beer.

770
00:27:31,009 --> 00:27:32,357
So at at a certain point, it was...

771
00:27:32,675 --> 00:27:34,519
I mean, there there was... There's part of

772
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:35,158
our thinking,

773
00:27:35,797 --> 00:27:36,436
you know, that,

774
00:27:38,434 --> 00:27:38,934
that

775
00:27:39,313 --> 00:27:41,630
that we were just weren't that interested in

776
00:27:41,630 --> 00:27:43,080
a alcoholic And we all... And it kind

777
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,071
of related, we weren't then interested interested in

778
00:27:45,071 --> 00:27:46,903
alcohol free products anymore. Yeah. It just wasn't...

779
00:27:47,381 --> 00:27:48,576
It's like, it

780
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:51,299
I don't know how to put it, like,

781
00:27:51,459 --> 00:27:53,375
we kinda just moved on. You know? And

782
00:27:53,375 --> 00:27:54,971
we were just like, yeah, Club soda is

783
00:27:54,971 --> 00:27:56,807
totally fine. I don't Don't, you know, have

784
00:27:56,807 --> 00:27:57,605
to have something else.

785
00:27:58,962 --> 00:27:59,441
And

786
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,482
it is surprisingly expensive. I have had that

787
00:28:02,482 --> 00:28:05,507
same experience that you described where I've had

788
00:28:05,507 --> 00:28:07,337
an alcohol free beer, and I think there's

789
00:28:07,337 --> 00:28:09,566
some kind of chemical passageway in my brain

790
00:28:09,566 --> 00:28:12,532
that's connected between that flavor. Mh. And that

791
00:28:12,532 --> 00:28:14,367
sensation of relaxation. And, yeah, I don't I

792
00:28:14,367 --> 00:28:15,484
don't know if it's good or bad, but

793
00:28:15,644 --> 00:28:17,971
I've definitely had that feel Well, the nice

794
00:28:17,971 --> 00:28:20,441
thing is my... I attribute a lot of

795
00:28:20,441 --> 00:28:23,070
my over consumption to the fact that I

796
00:28:23,070 --> 00:28:24,599
had a buzz when I was making decisions.

797
00:28:24,838 --> 00:28:26,355
Mh. So the nice thing is you've had

798
00:28:26,355 --> 00:28:28,591
2 non alcoholic Ipa, you get that poll.

799
00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:30,587
Yeah. The order a third. Yeah. But you

800
00:28:30,587 --> 00:28:31,864
still got your senses about, you so you

801
00:28:31,864 --> 00:28:33,881
don't. Yeah. Whereas if I had had 2

802
00:28:34,194 --> 00:28:37,706
you know, loaded full alcohol Ipa. Totally. 2

803
00:28:37,706 --> 00:28:40,340
would have led to 12. Right? Totally. So

804
00:28:40,499 --> 00:28:42,016
I think that's a big part of it.

805
00:28:42,335 --> 00:28:44,736
Let's talk about the cost of these products.

806
00:28:44,895 --> 00:28:45,134
Mh.

807
00:28:46,088 --> 00:28:46,588
I

808
00:28:47,917 --> 00:28:49,985
maybe because of my cheap, but there was

809
00:28:49,985 --> 00:28:51,257
a period where I was like,

810
00:28:52,864 --> 00:28:54,939
this is so frustrating. We're trying to change

811
00:28:54,939 --> 00:28:56,317
a trend. We're trying to

812
00:28:56,775 --> 00:28:58,872
introduce something new to the culture, but

813
00:28:59,409 --> 00:29:00,149
I thought

814
00:29:00,607 --> 00:29:01,107
because

815
00:29:01,818 --> 00:29:04,785
an alcohol free bar or a bottle shop

816
00:29:04,842 --> 00:29:07,389
because their volume is probably so much lower

817
00:29:07,866 --> 00:29:09,872
Than a than a full liquor store. Mh.

818
00:29:10,191 --> 00:29:11,787
They must have to mark that product up.

819
00:29:12,026 --> 00:29:14,179
Mh. But what I've come to realize I

820
00:29:14,179 --> 00:29:15,695
think, and this is why we wanted to

821
00:29:15,695 --> 00:29:18,008
have you on. Is just the manufacturing of

822
00:29:18,008 --> 00:29:19,699
the product is so expensive. So it's not

823
00:29:19,699 --> 00:29:21,617
only like you're you're making an 80 percent

824
00:29:21,617 --> 00:29:24,014
margin on something you purchased really cheaply. Correct?

825
00:29:24,493 --> 00:29:24,993
That's

826
00:29:25,372 --> 00:29:28,502
correct. So so starting with the manufacturer, I

827
00:29:28,502 --> 00:29:31,528
the manufacturing process is more expensive. Number 1,

828
00:29:31,687 --> 00:29:32,983
it's virtually all

829
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:34,633
small batch, and you have a few of

830
00:29:34,633 --> 00:29:37,437
these big, you know, beer brewing companies making

831
00:29:37,437 --> 00:29:39,353
alcohol for beer, But otherwise, they're all, like,

832
00:29:39,513 --> 00:29:41,588
startup up companies, you know, starting out doing

833
00:29:41,588 --> 00:29:43,264
this stuff, like, in their basement usually, and

834
00:29:43,264 --> 00:29:45,673
then they ramp up from there. So small

835
00:29:45,673 --> 00:29:46,732
batch, it's usually,

836
00:29:47,508 --> 00:29:50,062
nicely, you know, high quality, fresh ingredients,

837
00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:51,658
then a lot of times are even, like,

838
00:29:51,737 --> 00:29:53,750
dis instill, you know, herbs and things like

839
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:55,029
that themselves. Mh.

840
00:29:55,829 --> 00:29:57,829
And so, all of that, and then they

841
00:29:57,829 --> 00:29:59,990
are they're nicely packaged and, you know, all

842
00:29:59,990 --> 00:30:01,361
all that as to the cost.

843
00:30:02,397 --> 00:30:04,230
For us, I mean, I I didn't... We

844
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:05,664
haven't gone into this I don't know if

845
00:30:05,664 --> 00:30:07,257
you care to, but I had virtually no

846
00:30:07,257 --> 00:30:08,029
experience in the

847
00:30:08,545 --> 00:30:10,529
restaurant business when I started to awake. And

848
00:30:10,529 --> 00:30:12,751
so it wasn't until we were starting to

849
00:30:12,751 --> 00:30:14,179
go down the path but I started getting

850
00:30:14,179 --> 00:30:16,025
a spreadsheet and looking at the input cost

851
00:30:16,025 --> 00:30:17,544
and looking at the labor and looking at

852
00:30:17,544 --> 00:30:18,845
what we would need to charge

853
00:30:19,144 --> 00:30:20,744
for these things to try it to break

854
00:30:20,744 --> 00:30:22,924
even. And I was pretty

855
00:30:23,318 --> 00:30:25,945
I popping. And III was not proud to

856
00:30:25,945 --> 00:30:28,254
be selling cocktails under 14 dollars. Yeah. I

857
00:30:28,254 --> 00:30:29,767
mean, that was not what, you know, part

858
00:30:29,767 --> 00:30:31,200
of my vision for what this place would

859
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,786
be like. But that... For some of the

860
00:30:33,843 --> 00:30:36,232
ingredients that was necessary. Yeah. Have kind of

861
00:30:36,232 --> 00:30:38,461
the the basic margin that a, you know,

862
00:30:38,620 --> 00:30:41,100
a bar that can survive would have.

863
00:30:41,656 --> 00:30:43,641
So that was... You know, yeah. And I...

864
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,785
You know, hopefully, that will evolve... The market's

865
00:30:45,785 --> 00:30:46,921
definitely getting more,

866
00:30:47,453 --> 00:30:47,691
you know,

867
00:30:48,485 --> 00:30:50,827
diverse and competitive of and so that theoretically

868
00:30:50,963 --> 00:30:52,552
should bring down prices over time.

869
00:30:53,506 --> 00:30:55,651
But I... Like you said, it's it's in

870
00:30:55,651 --> 00:30:58,534
many in some cases, wine particular beer, Like,

871
00:30:58,933 --> 00:31:01,644
you start with the same process the alcohol

872
00:31:01,644 --> 00:31:03,718
based product goes through, and then you add

873
00:31:03,718 --> 00:31:08,038
this additional sometimes very sophisticated process of pulling

874
00:31:08,038 --> 00:31:10,506
the callback back out. So some... A lot

875
00:31:10,506 --> 00:31:11,620
of people and we got a lot of

876
00:31:11,620 --> 00:31:12,815
feedback about this and a lot you can

877
00:31:12,815 --> 00:31:14,247
tell them maybe you still start from some

878
00:31:14,247 --> 00:31:16,091
of these Google reviews they're like, you know,

879
00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:18,316
people are like Wtf f. Like, I paying

880
00:31:18,316 --> 00:31:20,065
15 bucks and you've taken out the active

881
00:31:20,065 --> 00:31:21,575
ingredient, You know, what is going on here?

882
00:31:21,733 --> 00:31:23,855
And I I understand that, that it it

883
00:31:23,974 --> 00:31:25,166
is where the market's is at right now.

884
00:31:25,325 --> 00:31:27,073
Well, some of us can remember what the

885
00:31:27,073 --> 00:31:29,799
alternative was. It was those 4 terrible tasting

886
00:31:30,173 --> 00:31:32,177
the, you know, bland options. So...

887
00:31:33,294 --> 00:31:35,048
Process of making them taste like you intend

888
00:31:35,048 --> 00:31:36,802
to make them taste is is is not

889
00:31:36,802 --> 00:31:39,136
easy. That's for sure. Yeah. You

890
00:31:39,753 --> 00:31:40,572
you mentioned

891
00:31:41,122 --> 00:31:41,622
2

892
00:31:42,075 --> 00:31:44,774
companies by name that I'm glad you did

893
00:31:44,774 --> 00:31:45,274
because

894
00:31:45,806 --> 00:31:48,188
from my limited knowledge, they are leaders in

895
00:31:48,188 --> 00:31:50,828
the non alcoholic beer category and that's the

896
00:31:50,908 --> 00:31:53,305
He 0 0 and athletic brewing. Mh.

897
00:31:54,104 --> 00:31:56,954
For me, He is a more obvious

898
00:31:57,714 --> 00:31:59,472
you know, case for the business model. Right?

899
00:31:59,632 --> 00:32:01,549
They are already 1 of the world's largest

900
00:32:01,549 --> 00:32:03,867
breweries, and they can easily go down this

901
00:32:03,867 --> 00:32:05,545
path, and they don't have to make money

902
00:32:05,545 --> 00:32:07,554
for file, and they can mh take chances

903
00:32:07,554 --> 00:32:09,307
of the I can't and see how it

904
00:32:09,307 --> 00:32:11,539
goes. And I, but, yeah, I don't wanna

905
00:32:11,539 --> 00:32:13,611
just dispatch In, I give them a ton

906
00:32:13,611 --> 00:32:14,684
of credit their

907
00:32:15,143 --> 00:32:17,381
advertising in f 1 in there... And Mh.

908
00:32:17,621 --> 00:32:19,539
All over Europe and all over American. I

909
00:32:19,619 --> 00:32:21,936
I think their leadership is really valuable not

910
00:32:21,936 --> 00:32:24,586
only He, but to the whole the whole

911
00:32:24,586 --> 00:32:26,976
non alcoholic category. Mh.

912
00:32:27,534 --> 00:32:29,309
Athletic is a really interesting

913
00:32:31,199 --> 00:32:34,479
you know, story that's different. Right? They're are

914
00:32:34,479 --> 00:32:36,466
they also... I mean, they're not as big

915
00:32:36,466 --> 00:32:39,088
as He as an overall brewing company, But

916
00:32:39,088 --> 00:32:40,678
in the non alcoholic category, or are they

917
00:32:40,678 --> 00:32:42,029
as big as they seem to be to

918
00:32:42,029 --> 00:32:44,430
me? Yeah. I believe so. I mean, they

919
00:32:44,430 --> 00:32:47,054
they... I think they're the the the biggest

920
00:32:47,054 --> 00:32:48,883
most popular, you know, kind of micro root,

921
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,689
alcohol free, beer out there And

922
00:32:52,874 --> 00:32:54,856
know, in terms of just, like they're kinda

923
00:32:54,856 --> 00:32:56,443
the their valuation and the growth that they've

924
00:32:56,443 --> 00:32:58,664
had... Their there seem to be way ahead

925
00:32:58,664 --> 00:32:59,640
of the other

926
00:33:00,409 --> 00:33:02,730
alcohol free only beer brands out there.

927
00:33:03,446 --> 00:33:06,073
And I I actually, knew a friend of

928
00:33:06,073 --> 00:33:08,142
1 of the founders there, and they've just,

929
00:33:08,301 --> 00:33:10,783
you know, we have... We worked very closely

930
00:33:10,783 --> 00:33:12,616
with them when I was at awake, always

931
00:33:12,616 --> 00:33:14,607
super cool, super nice, you know, people.

932
00:33:15,324 --> 00:33:16,997
So I'm just I'm very happy with the

933
00:33:16,997 --> 00:33:18,681
success that they. I hope it continues, but

934
00:33:18,681 --> 00:33:20,824
they clearly figured out a way to balance

935
00:33:20,824 --> 00:33:23,204
this, like, you, kinda obviously, athletic, you know,

936
00:33:23,284 --> 00:33:25,029
kind a wellness type of thing with the

937
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:26,275
alcohol free type of thing and

938
00:33:27,433 --> 00:33:29,270
and very good tasting beverages at the end

939
00:33:29,270 --> 00:33:30,628
of the day. You know? So

940
00:33:31,428 --> 00:33:33,559
yeah, Love love that brand. Well, is there

941
00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:35,996
is their growth... Is it, like,

942
00:33:36,715 --> 00:33:37,994
did they put the cart in front of

943
00:33:37,994 --> 00:33:39,512
the horse? Like, did they say we're gonna

944
00:33:39,512 --> 00:33:41,085
be this big thing and hope it itself

945
00:33:41,683 --> 00:33:44,634
did they have big investment capital or did

946
00:33:44,634 --> 00:33:47,425
it just grow like gang? Yeah. I think

947
00:33:47,425 --> 00:33:48,861
it's a little bit of all of the

948
00:33:48,861 --> 00:33:51,069
above? I mean, they... When we were starting

949
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:54,059
and awake, they were already pretty far along

950
00:33:54,059 --> 00:33:55,813
in terms of getting a couple rounds of

951
00:33:55,813 --> 00:33:57,827
funding. And, we're clearly

952
00:33:58,284 --> 00:33:59,581
a very professional

953
00:33:59,894 --> 00:34:00,294
outfit.

954
00:34:00,853 --> 00:34:02,451
And I'm not saying, you know, like, a

955
00:34:02,451 --> 00:34:03,809
a little bit ahead of the game. Yeah.

956
00:34:04,049 --> 00:34:04,768
In that regard.

957
00:34:05,487 --> 00:34:07,325
And then, you know, I remember seen I'd

958
00:34:07,325 --> 00:34:08,777
do like, Triathlon, and they would have a

959
00:34:08,777 --> 00:34:10,294
tent. You know? And they said they just

960
00:34:10,294 --> 00:34:12,210
they they they knew what their market was

961
00:34:12,289 --> 00:34:14,445
Yeah. And they really pinpoint it very well.

962
00:34:14,604 --> 00:34:16,041
And it's now it's, you know, it's everywhere.

963
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:16,600
Yeah.

964
00:34:17,647 --> 00:34:19,154
Yeah. That's great. I wish them all the

965
00:34:19,154 --> 00:34:20,978
best, and they have a delicious product. I

966
00:34:20,978 --> 00:34:22,168
can attest to that as well.

967
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:23,937
There are

968
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:24,920
generational trends

969
00:34:26,789 --> 00:34:28,619
that make the news that people talk about...

970
00:34:29,334 --> 00:34:31,482
They talk about millennials and Gen z,

971
00:34:32,532 --> 00:34:34,999
they're not having sex, like we... Gen Ers

972
00:34:34,999 --> 00:34:37,784
did. They're not drinking, like we... Gen Ers

973
00:34:37,784 --> 00:34:38,103
did.

974
00:34:39,947 --> 00:34:41,613
What do you have any theory on that?

975
00:34:41,851 --> 00:34:43,597
Like, is... Because because they're 1 of the...

976
00:34:43,835 --> 00:34:45,739
I mean, that those generations are 1 of

977
00:34:45,739 --> 00:34:49,244
the driving forces in non alcohol beverages shaking

978
00:34:49,244 --> 00:34:51,625
off. Right? Yeah. Yes. Well, so my daughter's

979
00:34:51,625 --> 00:34:53,211
17, and I don't know. I... I don't

980
00:34:53,211 --> 00:34:54,639
know if stop my head what generation she's

981
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:55,926
a part of. I can I can say?

982
00:34:56,086 --> 00:34:57,281
So she's on kind of the. I mean,

983
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,556
you know, the kind of the 20 somethings

984
00:34:58,556 --> 00:35:00,808
things, let's say right now. Right. And

985
00:35:01,264 --> 00:35:02,514
so I see a lot of this through

986
00:35:02,872 --> 00:35:04,698
her eyes and also some of the some

987
00:35:04,698 --> 00:35:06,445
of the employees I have in my health

988
00:35:06,445 --> 00:35:08,907
policy firm, etcetera. And I... You know, I

989
00:35:08,907 --> 00:35:10,336
think at the heart of it for 1

990
00:35:10,336 --> 00:35:12,206
thing, is that they see

991
00:35:12,744 --> 00:35:15,536
a world that is a horrific mess. Mh

992
00:35:15,536 --> 00:35:18,422
and they, you know, are realizing that it's

993
00:35:18,422 --> 00:35:20,568
now on their shoulders if they wanna have

994
00:35:20,568 --> 00:35:22,977
a better future to do something about it

995
00:35:23,193 --> 00:35:25,339
and that things like alcohol, I would say

996
00:35:25,339 --> 00:35:27,588
also the things like oppression and, you know,

997
00:35:27,748 --> 00:35:30,224
racism and sexism are just are getting in

998
00:35:30,224 --> 00:35:32,381
the... Or so obviously, from their eyes getting

999
00:35:32,381 --> 00:35:32,940
in the way.

1000
00:35:33,913 --> 00:35:35,608
Just a happier, healthier,

1001
00:35:36,063 --> 00:35:38,531
more fulfilling life that, you know, I don't

1002
00:35:38,531 --> 00:35:40,442
know. I think we we lived through history

1003
00:35:40,442 --> 00:35:42,090
as, like, you, through a a key whole

1004
00:35:42,209 --> 00:35:43,878
you don't really kinda see what you're doing

1005
00:35:43,878 --> 00:35:45,706
at the time. Yeah. What I mean? So

1006
00:35:45,706 --> 00:35:47,297
we... Like you just say, we grew up

1007
00:35:47,297 --> 00:35:49,045
with, like, you know, it was kind of

1008
00:35:49,045 --> 00:35:51,048
expected that we were drink lot and and,

1009
00:35:51,128 --> 00:35:52,797
you know, to some degree, I was just

1010
00:35:52,797 --> 00:35:54,706
speaking for myself, it was expected that I'd

1011
00:35:54,706 --> 00:35:56,138
be a little bit sexist. And... You know,

1012
00:35:56,297 --> 00:35:57,649
I mean, grove in the south It's like

1013
00:35:57,649 --> 00:35:58,340
that was just

1014
00:35:58,860 --> 00:36:00,460
That nothing, you know, my parents raised me

1015
00:36:00,460 --> 00:36:02,059
well and everything, but just I was in

1016
00:36:02,059 --> 00:36:04,219
this mil you that, like, that's kinda what

1017
00:36:04,219 --> 00:36:05,954
a white guy was supposed to be

1018
00:36:06,472 --> 00:36:08,143
And, you know, now it's like, well, of

1019
00:36:08,143 --> 00:36:09,654
course, freaking not. You know, and, of course,

1020
00:36:09,813 --> 00:36:11,564
people can make these, you know, be this

1021
00:36:11,564 --> 00:36:13,210
way in their lifestyle and of course, people

1022
00:36:13,329 --> 00:36:15,085
or, you know, we come from all different

1023
00:36:15,085 --> 00:36:17,958
places under diverse and, like, you know, that's

1024
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:20,512
that's part of a healthy and happy society,

1025
00:36:20,671 --> 00:36:23,242
whereas I for us. I feel like that

1026
00:36:23,242 --> 00:36:25,000
wasn't the default assumption. At least I would,

1027
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,278
you know, kind of as

1028
00:36:26,758 --> 00:36:28,036
in the world that I grew up in.

1029
00:36:28,675 --> 00:36:29,175
So,

1030
00:36:29,968 --> 00:36:31,720
I think they're kinda like, this this has

1031
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,189
gotta stop and and alcohol is just gonna

1032
00:36:34,189 --> 00:36:36,499
get in our way. Yeah. So they might

1033
00:36:36,499 --> 00:36:38,331
not... So that that'll be interesting to see

1034
00:36:38,331 --> 00:36:41,151
where this goes because they're not gonna have

1035
00:36:41,447 --> 00:36:43,514
the nostalgic piece that we talked about.

1036
00:36:45,740 --> 00:36:47,648
Non alcoholic beverage is gonna serve a different

1037
00:36:47,648 --> 00:36:50,765
purpose for And so the... They probably don't

1038
00:36:50,765 --> 00:36:52,038
want the 1 that tastes like gin. They

1039
00:36:52,038 --> 00:36:53,708
want the 1 that tastes delicious right off

1040
00:36:53,708 --> 00:36:56,194
the bat before you've die journey needed yourself

1041
00:36:56,194 --> 00:36:58,594
into something bad. Yeah. So I think it'll

1042
00:36:58,594 --> 00:37:01,094
be really, really interesting. Because there was out

1043
00:37:01,154 --> 00:37:03,094
through white claw. I just like, I'm unemployed

1044
00:37:03,154 --> 00:37:05,328
cons but we way. I came I went

1045
00:37:05,328 --> 00:37:06,601
to her saying a concert was like, white?

1046
00:37:06,999 --> 00:37:09,864
What is this? Like stuff? And now that

1047
00:37:10,023 --> 00:37:11,932
I think there's actually alcohol free version, which

1048
00:37:11,932 --> 00:37:13,683
you, why would anyone wanna drink that? I

1049
00:37:13,683 --> 00:37:16,085
have no idea like could come okay people

1050
00:37:16,085 --> 00:37:18,472
twice. All I wanna do is, like, go

1051
00:37:18,472 --> 00:37:20,701
to a huge liquor store after we leave

1052
00:37:20,701 --> 00:37:23,088
this podcast to, like, just brew just to

1053
00:37:23,088 --> 00:37:25,652
view all the options. Yeah. And not that

1054
00:37:25,811 --> 00:37:28,065
I have ever even tasted White claw, but

1055
00:37:28,681 --> 00:37:30,992
now an alcohol free White claw because I

1056
00:37:30,992 --> 00:37:33,075
mean, I'm disappointed that, like, Top chico now

1057
00:37:33,075 --> 00:37:35,163
has, you know, Oh, I know hard hard

1058
00:37:35,219 --> 00:37:37,205
so hard bubbly water, Like,

1059
00:37:37,999 --> 00:37:39,746
I just can't imagine. Oh, that frustrate me

1060
00:37:39,746 --> 00:37:41,435
too. You know? That was our that was

1061
00:37:41,435 --> 00:37:43,269
my high end bubbly water. Yeah. And this

1062
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:44,785
Cheap ass over here I really wanted to

1063
00:37:44,785 --> 00:37:45,604
drop a few

1064
00:37:46,221 --> 00:37:48,613
Get that glass bomb I get that glass

1065
00:37:48,613 --> 00:37:50,224
I was boost for water.

1066
00:37:51,905 --> 00:37:53,905
Yeah. I think the whole white claw, that's

1067
00:37:53,905 --> 00:37:55,585
a discussion for another day, but don't you

1068
00:37:55,585 --> 00:37:57,664
think the Z folks are really pissed. Oh,

1069
00:37:57,744 --> 00:37:57,880
yeah

1070
00:37:58,639 --> 00:37:59,699
like, we just

1071
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,779
We that

1072
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,875
flat, rather un tasty.

1073
00:38:06,574 --> 00:38:08,094
That was... Yeah. That was in our holidays.

1074
00:38:08,255 --> 00:38:09,614
We had... Oh, we had to push a

1075
00:38:09,614 --> 00:38:11,375
lot of z back in the bar. Yeah.

1076
00:38:11,694 --> 00:38:12,734
Days. Yeah. Well,

1077
00:38:13,949 --> 00:38:16,897
push that Z. Gonna got 28 cases back

1078
00:38:16,897 --> 00:38:18,172
here and it's not moving.

1079
00:38:19,048 --> 00:38:21,772
When when I think about social I back

1080
00:38:21,772 --> 00:38:22,807
in my drinking days.

1081
00:38:23,683 --> 00:38:26,094
It's amazing to me how many things I

1082
00:38:26,152 --> 00:38:26,709
participated in,

1083
00:38:27,346 --> 00:38:28,483
where I pretended

1084
00:38:28,939 --> 00:38:31,186
the social I was for 1 purpose, but

1085
00:38:31,186 --> 00:38:32,942
really, I I was just there to drink.

1086
00:38:33,181 --> 00:38:36,214
Mh. Mh. Yeah. You know, everything was alcohol

1087
00:38:36,214 --> 00:38:38,861
centric. Oh, yeah. You wanna go play part

1088
00:38:38,861 --> 00:38:41,171
sure. I've never played. Sounds boring. They're gonna

1089
00:38:41,171 --> 00:38:43,004
me be there. I'm there. Let's go. You

1090
00:38:43,004 --> 00:38:44,380
know? Yeah. So

1091
00:38:44,836 --> 00:38:45,973
1 of my questions

1092
00:38:46,429 --> 00:38:49,015
about your experience at wake is

1093
00:38:49,788 --> 00:38:52,255
because all of my socializing was so alcohol

1094
00:38:52,255 --> 00:38:54,086
centric for a couple of decades of my

1095
00:38:54,086 --> 00:38:54,245
life.

1096
00:38:54,961 --> 00:38:57,444
If there isn't alcohol at a way like,

1097
00:38:58,164 --> 00:39:00,401
what what's the big thing that's taking center

1098
00:39:00,401 --> 00:39:02,000
stage? I know you tried a lot of

1099
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,038
different things? Mh.

1100
00:39:03,918 --> 00:39:05,915
Is it the entertainment is that you mentioned

1101
00:39:05,915 --> 00:39:06,449
drag show.

1102
00:39:07,204 --> 00:39:09,110
Music? Is it food? Is it just the

1103
00:39:09,268 --> 00:39:11,968
Ambiance? What what draws people in? Yeah. We

1104
00:39:11,968 --> 00:39:13,715
had, you know, we had live music. We

1105
00:39:13,715 --> 00:39:15,835
did we did try lots of different things

1106
00:39:15,954 --> 00:39:16,988
to stimulate, you know,

1107
00:39:18,499 --> 00:39:20,329
some excitement around what was going on that

1108
00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:22,159
we had open mics. We had we had

1109
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,321
poetry read maybe did some comedy nights.

1110
00:39:25,355 --> 00:39:27,423
You know, typical bars also to try different

1111
00:39:27,423 --> 00:39:29,094
things to get people to come in and

1112
00:39:29,094 --> 00:39:30,382
and, you know, get on the phone. Did

1113
00:39:30,382 --> 00:39:32,615
you ever try half pressure egg shots? Not

1114
00:39:32,615 --> 00:39:33,890
sure I have punched shots.

1115
00:39:35,086 --> 00:39:37,000
That'd be a little confusing when. Yeah. I

1116
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:37,318
would.

1117
00:39:37,876 --> 00:39:39,798
Mix messing is forget a second. Was a

1118
00:39:39,798 --> 00:39:41,148
big chunk of our audience. Yeah.

1119
00:39:42,497 --> 00:39:45,219
But, you know, honestly, I think the thing

1120
00:39:45,275 --> 00:39:48,780
that people really wanted was... And this this

1121
00:39:48,780 --> 00:39:51,160
was where it all started. Was they wanted

1122
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,143
to sit down with another person or a

1123
00:39:53,143 --> 00:39:55,617
group of friends in have a conversation. They

1124
00:39:55,617 --> 00:39:58,473
would remember and that, you know, that represented

1125
00:39:58,473 --> 00:40:00,932
the best of themselves, Mh not the the

1126
00:40:00,932 --> 00:40:04,368
water down glazed over alcohol, you know, fuel

1127
00:40:04,368 --> 00:40:06,676
version of themselves. And so, you know, that

1128
00:40:06,676 --> 00:40:08,904
that was the most beautiful thing. And people

1129
00:40:08,904 --> 00:40:09,859
would come... And I, you know,

1130
00:40:11,465 --> 00:40:13,692
share about their experiences, you know, with us

1131
00:40:13,692 --> 00:40:14,964
there. And it was that was all it

1132
00:40:14,964 --> 00:40:16,555
was. It's something simple. You know, it's...

1133
00:40:17,907 --> 00:40:19,338
This is something I've been working a lot

1134
00:40:19,338 --> 00:40:20,690
on recently in my life. It's, like,

1135
00:40:21,424 --> 00:40:24,221
usually, I think it's not... Something doesn't need

1136
00:40:24,221 --> 00:40:25,500
to be at it. Something needs to be

1137
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:27,518
taken away. Mh, you know, kind we dis

1138
00:40:27,658 --> 00:40:29,496
if we can dis our lives and take

1139
00:40:29,496 --> 00:40:31,028
away the haze and the things that think

1140
00:40:31,028 --> 00:40:33,502
we need, we find that what we actually

1141
00:40:33,502 --> 00:40:35,497
want is right there. Mh. You know, in

1142
00:40:35,497 --> 00:40:38,210
front of us. And that at way at

1143
00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:39,744
its best moments. Yes, maybe there's was some

1144
00:40:39,744 --> 00:40:41,344
music playing the background. You know, we loved

1145
00:40:41,344 --> 00:40:42,625
all... We have Dj We all have different

1146
00:40:42,625 --> 00:40:43,664
kinds of things, and it was a lot

1147
00:40:43,664 --> 00:40:43,984
of fun.

1148
00:40:44,625 --> 00:40:46,964
But people just... I think wanted to have

1149
00:40:47,105 --> 00:40:48,739
connection with other people. And

1150
00:40:49,193 --> 00:40:49,829
it's amazing.

1151
00:40:51,022 --> 00:40:51,920
Alcohol is often

1152
00:40:52,453 --> 00:40:53,646
described as a truth serum,

1153
00:40:54,282 --> 00:40:54,782
but

1154
00:40:55,237 --> 00:40:57,781
my experience is socializing with alcohol.

1155
00:40:58,432 --> 00:40:59,328
Were that

1156
00:40:59,781 --> 00:41:02,717
people talked and didn't listen. Mh. After the

1157
00:41:02,717 --> 00:41:05,630
second or third round, the volume increased. And

1158
00:41:05,749 --> 00:41:07,427
and the story started repeating.

1159
00:41:08,306 --> 00:41:11,343
And so it was the opposite of a

1160
00:41:11,343 --> 00:41:13,980
serum for truth. Sure. You know, you're drink

1161
00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:16,889
enough, and you is let's loosen up and.

1162
00:41:17,665 --> 00:41:20,457
But but that connection that you described, he's

1163
00:41:20,457 --> 00:41:23,089
elusive with alcohol whereas, if you're in an

1164
00:41:23,089 --> 00:41:24,939
environment, like we discussed earlier where you feel

1165
00:41:24,939 --> 00:41:26,617
safe here with people you alike and you've...

1166
00:41:26,857 --> 00:41:28,935
And the Ambiance is comfortable. And like you

1167
00:41:28,935 --> 00:41:31,832
said, background music. I think that lends to

1168
00:41:32,291 --> 00:41:34,699
authentic a conversation that is otherwise, just kinda

1169
00:41:34,699 --> 00:41:37,567
missing in our culture. Yeah. I mean, I

1170
00:41:37,567 --> 00:41:38,922
hope that's something you're really proud of that

1171
00:41:38,922 --> 00:41:40,650
you created a space that

1172
00:41:41,007 --> 00:41:43,235
that. Thank you. I do. I I really

1173
00:41:43,235 --> 00:41:45,223
appreciate that. I mean, I think many of

1174
00:41:45,223 --> 00:41:46,655
at least the 3 of us have now

1175
00:41:46,655 --> 00:41:49,297
been to wedding and other situations where people

1176
00:41:49,297 --> 00:41:50,492
are drinking a lot. And this is not...

1177
00:41:50,811 --> 00:41:52,404
Look, I was there. We were... Sure, you

1178
00:41:52,404 --> 00:41:53,997
know, I I was there a thousand fold.

1179
00:41:54,156 --> 00:41:55,510
So this is not a judgment.

1180
00:41:56,227 --> 00:41:56,387
But,

1181
00:41:57,039 --> 00:41:59,360
Yeah. Those conversations are not quite as interesting

1182
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,800
as they seemed back when I was when

1183
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,280
I was drinking. So a new perspective on

1184
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,119
that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

1185
00:42:07,602 --> 00:42:09,932
The... I have a question about the business

1186
00:42:09,989 --> 00:42:12,628
model. Mh. So you were in my mind.

1187
00:42:12,866 --> 00:42:14,057
Correct me if I'm wrong. You are kind

1188
00:42:14,057 --> 00:42:15,726
of 3 things. You were a coffee house,

1189
00:42:16,043 --> 00:42:16,599
your bar...

1190
00:42:17,473 --> 00:42:19,776
Non alcoholic bar and your bottle shop. Mh.

1191
00:42:21,224 --> 00:42:22,662
It was just pointed out to me this

1192
00:42:22,662 --> 00:42:24,819
last week. I was having a discussion with

1193
00:42:24,819 --> 00:42:28,015
our shout sobriety group about non alcoholic beverages.

1194
00:42:28,668 --> 00:42:30,579
And somebody said, you know, I think the

1195
00:42:30,579 --> 00:42:33,128
bottle shop concept unless it is part of

1196
00:42:33,128 --> 00:42:35,437
a liquor store that's also selling alcohol. Mh

1197
00:42:35,597 --> 00:42:37,132
I think that's almost impossible

1198
00:42:38,323 --> 00:42:39,702
and and the the

1199
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,158
alcohol free bar as a stand is very

1200
00:42:42,158 --> 00:42:44,175
difficult also. Mh. Whereas,

1201
00:42:44,968 --> 00:42:46,803
what you see a lot of now. Mh.

1202
00:42:47,043 --> 00:42:49,596
Is full service restaurants that have a full

1203
00:42:49,596 --> 00:42:51,351
service alcohol menu that also,

1204
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:54,388
instead of just having soda water. Mh. They've

1205
00:42:54,388 --> 00:42:57,168
got 4 or 5 mock tails and 3

1206
00:42:57,168 --> 00:42:59,630
or 4 non alcoholic beers and wines. Yeah.

1207
00:43:00,106 --> 00:43:02,351
Is Is that is that the key to

1208
00:43:02,351 --> 00:43:04,740
success when it's just rolled into a wider

1209
00:43:04,740 --> 00:43:07,072
product line as opposed to where the standalone

1210
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:09,360
thing, you can only get this thing here.

1211
00:43:09,932 --> 00:43:11,683
You're saying? I do. I do.

1212
00:43:12,399 --> 00:43:14,706
So I think that's probably the case. And

1213
00:43:14,706 --> 00:43:16,297
so I I do think that

1214
00:43:18,623 --> 00:43:21,175
bars that, you know, or otherwise succeeding and

1215
00:43:21,175 --> 00:43:23,966
can have robust alcohol free menu, you know,

1216
00:43:24,046 --> 00:43:25,401
are gonna be the most likely to go

1217
00:43:25,401 --> 00:43:28,042
to that. And, you know, there's somebody people

1218
00:43:28,042 --> 00:43:29,951
and there's other restaurants in town that I

1219
00:43:29,951 --> 00:43:31,304
really wanna give a shout out to for

1220
00:43:31,304 --> 00:43:34,046
having very interesting sophisticated alcohol menus

1221
00:43:35,136 --> 00:43:37,521
because that's that's probably gonna reach the most,

1222
00:43:37,681 --> 00:43:38,317
you know, people.

1223
00:43:39,271 --> 00:43:41,259
I do... You know, so III thought about

1224
00:43:41,259 --> 00:43:43,579
this a whole lot. Right. And and when

1225
00:43:43,579 --> 00:43:45,965
we were doing awake, the alcohol free bottle

1226
00:43:45,965 --> 00:43:48,032
shops were actually what was really taking off.

1227
00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:50,440
Really in getting some investment

1228
00:43:51,052 --> 00:43:52,499
in terms of kinda on the consumer of

1229
00:43:52,499 --> 00:43:54,652
the equation, not the product side, but in

1230
00:43:54,652 --> 00:43:56,646
terms of the different facets of our business,

1231
00:43:57,124 --> 00:43:58,719
that was the 1. And I really admired

1232
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,632
the simplicity of that model was I was

1233
00:44:00,632 --> 00:44:02,882
dealing with the complex of our 3 threefold

1234
00:44:02,882 --> 00:44:04,320
model that included of our restaurant.

1235
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:07,436
But now, I see that some of those

1236
00:44:07,436 --> 00:44:07,936
companies

1237
00:44:08,395 --> 00:44:10,090
that appear to be thriving at the time

1238
00:44:10,090 --> 00:44:11,930
we're now closing. And so I... I'm not

1239
00:44:11,930 --> 00:44:13,950
sure how much runway there is for the

1240
00:44:14,410 --> 00:44:16,110
alcohol free only bottle shop

1241
00:44:16,410 --> 00:44:20,255
model. III do think that the awake model

1242
00:44:20,255 --> 00:44:22,327
could work. And part part of the reason

1243
00:44:22,327 --> 00:44:23,523
we did it the way we did was

1244
00:44:23,523 --> 00:44:25,596
we owned the space and so we we

1245
00:44:25,596 --> 00:44:26,882
were paying for it all the time. So

1246
00:44:26,882 --> 00:44:27,937
we wanted to offer

1247
00:44:29,103 --> 00:44:31,324
potentially money generating things from going on all

1248
00:44:31,324 --> 00:44:32,672
the time. So that's where we had the

1249
00:44:32,672 --> 00:44:34,592
coffee in the morning basically in the alcohol

1250
00:44:34,592 --> 00:44:36,284
free bar in the afternoon,

1251
00:44:37,451 --> 00:44:39,459
I think with a... You know, somebody with

1252
00:44:39,753 --> 00:44:41,817
better expertise in the bar restaurant business,

1253
00:44:42,547 --> 00:44:44,057
I e some where I had none.

1254
00:44:45,011 --> 00:44:45,965
And also, you know,

1255
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,835
the the time, so the the lifestyle of

1256
00:44:49,874 --> 00:44:52,269
of a alcohol free bar owner is the

1257
00:44:52,269 --> 00:44:54,184
same as a regular bar owner. Meaning nights

1258
00:44:54,184 --> 00:44:55,941
at the weekends, and I have a family,

1259
00:44:56,100 --> 00:44:57,297
and I have other things going on in

1260
00:44:57,297 --> 00:44:58,710
my life. And so I simply just couldn't

1261
00:44:58,909 --> 00:45:01,217
be there enough to make it work. And

1262
00:45:01,217 --> 00:45:02,809
other other variables, you know,

1263
00:45:03,606 --> 00:45:05,277
I think, obviously, that they could have gone

1264
00:45:05,277 --> 00:45:07,282
differently. So I wouldn't give up on that

1265
00:45:07,282 --> 00:45:10,305
model, but it's... You really gotta stick every

1266
00:45:10,305 --> 00:45:12,851
single landing on every single have to jump

1267
00:45:12,851 --> 00:45:14,938
if it's gonna survive. And and, you know,

1268
00:45:15,578 --> 00:45:16,776
somebody else might be able to do that,

1269
00:45:16,936 --> 00:45:18,694
but not me. When you go to a

1270
00:45:18,694 --> 00:45:18,934
restaurant,

1271
00:45:19,893 --> 00:45:23,144
not that isn't, you know, solely alcohol, non

1272
00:45:23,184 --> 00:45:24,140
all la restaurant. Mh.

1273
00:45:25,096 --> 00:45:27,407
Do you flip to that that menu that

1274
00:45:27,407 --> 00:45:28,601
part of the menu and see what they're

1275
00:45:28,601 --> 00:45:29,717
offering are? Absolutely.

1276
00:45:30,289 --> 00:45:31,888
Absolutely. And it and and can you make

1277
00:45:31,888 --> 00:45:34,525
any correlation between... This is a great restaurant

1278
00:45:34,525 --> 00:45:35,963
and they seem to be driving and oh,

1279
00:45:36,043 --> 00:45:37,801
by the way, they're paying attention to this

1280
00:45:37,801 --> 00:45:39,811
this segment of the clients I think so.

1281
00:45:40,050 --> 00:45:41,564
I... You know, and there's, like, in in

1282
00:45:41,644 --> 00:45:43,795
Dc where I go a lot. There's there's

1283
00:45:43,795 --> 00:45:45,548
a couple of really good, like Hamilton comes

1284
00:45:45,548 --> 00:45:46,504
to mind as a restaurant I went and

1285
00:45:46,584 --> 00:45:47,460
I was like wow. They have a really...

1286
00:45:47,619 --> 00:45:49,307
That's a great, you know, place. And doing

1287
00:45:49,307 --> 00:45:50,898
well and they have a great alcohol menu.

1288
00:45:51,534 --> 00:45:53,125
And then other places it isn't this is

1289
00:45:53,125 --> 00:45:53,682
a broader,

1290
00:45:54,557 --> 00:45:54,715
again,

1291
00:45:56,227 --> 00:45:57,993
I don't wanna... Anybody who trying to do

1292
00:45:57,993 --> 00:45:59,428
anything, you know, that is

1293
00:46:00,146 --> 00:46:03,175
supporting alcohol freedom. I'm all for it. It

1294
00:46:03,175 --> 00:46:06,126
is disappointing, personally speaking to go to the

1295
00:46:06,126 --> 00:46:07,735
alcohol free section of a menu, and it

1296
00:46:07,735 --> 00:46:10,684
is Shirley Temple, orange Juice, club soda, You

1297
00:46:10,684 --> 00:46:12,938
know, And it's it's just... They've clearly haven't

1298
00:46:12,996 --> 00:46:15,559
actually invested any thought. Yeah. Get into what

1299
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:16,671
they're offering people. And so...

1300
00:46:17,465 --> 00:46:19,609
And III do love club Club soda. But

1301
00:46:19,689 --> 00:46:22,786
I I also... I to me, the the

1302
00:46:22,786 --> 00:46:24,429
part about that that is the most for

1303
00:46:24,469 --> 00:46:26,142
frustrating, and we dealt with this when we

1304
00:46:26,142 --> 00:46:28,055
opened a wake is we said we had

1305
00:46:28,055 --> 00:46:29,807
alcohol free products, and they said, okay. It's

1306
00:46:29,807 --> 00:46:32,775
gonna be high sugar, you know, juice for,

1307
00:46:32,934 --> 00:46:33,335
you know,

1308
00:46:33,974 --> 00:46:35,414
and it it it it it's not... It

1309
00:46:35,414 --> 00:46:37,014
doesn't have to be It can be actually

1310
00:46:37,014 --> 00:46:39,494
be healthy, you know, relatively low sugar.

1311
00:46:40,869 --> 00:46:43,030
Beverages if they put some thought into how

1312
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:44,070
they're crafted. Mh.

1313
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:46,789
Yeah. Because those... There are some canned mock

1314
00:46:46,789 --> 00:46:49,985
tails that are really high sugar that we've

1315
00:46:49,985 --> 00:46:53,793
had. Yeah. At family gatherings before. Yeah. And

1316
00:46:53,793 --> 00:46:55,473
the kids drank I'm gonna like, oh, my

1317
00:46:55,473 --> 00:46:57,216
god. That's worse than soda.

1318
00:46:57,612 --> 00:46:59,910
Yeah. Because you were like, I'm not touching

1319
00:46:59,910 --> 00:47:00,385
them. Yeah.

1320
00:47:01,257 --> 00:47:03,181
Well, high too. Like club So. Yeah.

1321
00:47:04,297 --> 00:47:05,733
But I love it with a... I love

1322
00:47:05,733 --> 00:47:07,646
it when it's fan up too though. Yeah.

1323
00:47:07,806 --> 00:47:09,741
Yeah. I just think it's it's such an

1324
00:47:10,118 --> 00:47:12,128
opportunity. I mean, if you've got 8 people

1325
00:47:12,128 --> 00:47:14,761
going out to dinner together. Mh. In in

1326
00:47:14,761 --> 00:47:16,916
today's world, the likelihood that 1 of the

1327
00:47:16,916 --> 00:47:20,043
8 is alcohol free, relatively high. Like, we're

1328
00:47:20,043 --> 00:47:21,880
we're... Mh. We're getting to a point where

1329
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,955
that's normal No shame. Yeah. There's no shame.

1330
00:47:24,195 --> 00:47:26,190
And I why you choose to do. That's

1331
00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:28,027
right. And if you don't have something on

1332
00:47:28,027 --> 00:47:29,719
your menu to cater to person, I just

1333
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,880
think it's a huge lost opportunity. Totally. My

1334
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,719
opinion doesn't come. It did when I was

1335
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,880
newly sober came from a place of anger

1336
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,280
and frustration and being left out. Mh. And

1337
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,370
now it's more what are you doing dude

1338
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:42,842
like? Yeah. Pay. 8 bucks 10 bucks for

1339
00:47:42,842 --> 00:47:44,836
a nice piece. All free drink and you're...

1340
00:47:44,996 --> 00:47:46,830
Now Gonna get, you know, free or 2

1341
00:47:46,830 --> 00:47:48,585
dollar club soda instead because you don't have

1342
00:47:48,585 --> 00:47:50,595
anything for me. That's right. That's right.

1343
00:47:52,271 --> 00:47:53,568
Okay. So

1344
00:47:53,946 --> 00:47:56,260
here... So I'm I'm all upside on everything

1345
00:47:56,260 --> 00:47:58,733
we've talked about. Here's where I get confused.

1346
00:47:58,971 --> 00:48:00,951
Mh. And I do still get a little

1347
00:48:00,951 --> 00:48:02,956
bit frustrated and the

1348
00:48:04,218 --> 00:48:04,957
alcohol free

1349
00:48:05,654 --> 00:48:06,532
market. Mh.

1350
00:48:07,489 --> 00:48:08,765
Includes... And I don't even know if I'm

1351
00:48:08,765 --> 00:48:10,382
using these terms. Right? But

1352
00:48:11,014 --> 00:48:14,420
there is an emerging market for beverages with

1353
00:48:14,420 --> 00:48:16,956
adapt antigens in them. Mh things with big

1354
00:48:16,956 --> 00:48:17,852
words like

1355
00:48:18,637 --> 00:48:19,114
Uganda,

1356
00:48:20,070 --> 00:48:21,365
and Rei mushrooms.

1357
00:48:21,820 --> 00:48:23,651
And, of course, the ones that we we

1358
00:48:23,651 --> 00:48:26,534
know a little bit about Thc and Cbd.

1359
00:48:27,175 --> 00:48:28,934
You see mushroom oil in our fridge We

1360
00:48:28,934 --> 00:48:31,175
do? Is it good? It's good Inflammation. No.

1361
00:48:31,894 --> 00:48:34,534
No. You. But joey I do. Okay. Good.

1362
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:37,905
From. Should should. So should they be eating

1363
00:48:37,905 --> 00:48:38,305
there? No.

1364
00:48:39,823 --> 00:48:40,323
So

1365
00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:44,166
these things that are popping up in

1366
00:48:44,701 --> 00:48:45,201
in

1367
00:48:45,974 --> 00:48:47,031
alcohol free beverages?

1368
00:48:47,644 --> 00:48:49,793
Are they... Should they be a concern?

1369
00:48:50,429 --> 00:48:52,671
Is it case by case. Like, what are

1370
00:48:52,671 --> 00:48:55,453
we looking at? Yeah. Well, so I... For

1371
00:48:55,453 --> 00:48:57,361
for me, alright. All of this is just

1372
00:48:57,361 --> 00:48:59,684
my perspective. I mean, number 1, I think

1373
00:48:59,765 --> 00:49:02,265
Thc is a little different because it's clearly

1374
00:49:02,405 --> 00:49:04,164
psycho active, You know, And I'm,

1375
00:49:04,965 --> 00:49:07,537
I don't personally choose to use. I don't

1376
00:49:07,537 --> 00:49:09,851
have judgment for those who do. But I

1377
00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:11,947
I... For me, it is it is ind

1378
00:49:12,324 --> 00:49:12,824
into.

1379
00:49:13,282 --> 00:49:15,451
And and, you know, I wouldn't drive on

1380
00:49:15,451 --> 00:49:16,808
it, and of course, all that kind of

1381
00:49:16,808 --> 00:49:19,681
stuff. The other things, I think it's it's,

1382
00:49:19,841 --> 00:49:22,576
you know, some seem to have some physiological.

1383
00:49:22,970 --> 00:49:23,530
I have

1384
00:49:24,250 --> 00:49:26,809
drank drinks with Cbd, and sometimes I've even

1385
00:49:26,809 --> 00:49:29,369
added Cbd to drinks and I think I

1386
00:49:29,369 --> 00:49:32,344
feel a relaxing kind of feeling. Doesn't seem

1387
00:49:32,344 --> 00:49:34,577
to mess with my mind much, and That

1388
00:49:34,577 --> 00:49:36,251
that I think is kind of the consensus

1389
00:49:36,251 --> 00:49:37,527
of of its properties.

1390
00:49:38,723 --> 00:49:40,557
So I'm I'm kind of okay with that,

1391
00:49:40,717 --> 00:49:42,167
and and the other thing you mentioned, I

1392
00:49:42,247 --> 00:49:44,182
I... For me, the issue is

1393
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,554
is not so much good or bad. It's...

1394
00:49:47,112 --> 00:49:49,186
What's effective and what's just being kind of

1395
00:49:49,186 --> 00:49:51,674
marketed as effective. And and and, you know,

1396
00:49:51,834 --> 00:49:53,192
and my wife and I have lots of

1397
00:49:53,192 --> 00:49:55,510
discussions about this, and she's has medical training.

1398
00:49:56,150 --> 00:49:58,547
And, you know, the the sort of traditional

1399
00:49:58,547 --> 00:50:00,306
viewers, like, well, if, you know, it's gone

1400
00:50:00,306 --> 00:50:03,351
through clinical trials and as Fda approved, then

1401
00:50:03,351 --> 00:50:05,184
it's effective and if it hasn't then basically,

1402
00:50:05,343 --> 00:50:07,495
it's not you know, but then you go

1403
00:50:07,495 --> 00:50:08,610
and you look at the history of a

1404
00:50:08,610 --> 00:50:10,769
lot of these, you know, trials and and

1405
00:50:10,769 --> 00:50:12,276
a lot of them are sponsored by, you

1406
00:50:12,276 --> 00:50:15,211
know, gazillion dollar companies and it's like, how

1407
00:50:15,211 --> 00:50:16,898
much can we really that, and there's a

1408
00:50:16,898 --> 00:50:18,494
lot that's wrong with the western medical model.

1409
00:50:18,654 --> 00:50:20,250
We won't go into all of that. So

1410
00:50:20,250 --> 00:50:22,246
so just because something doesn't fit the criteria

1411
00:50:22,246 --> 00:50:24,481
of the traditional western model does not mean

1412
00:50:24,481 --> 00:50:26,885
that it's not a active. And so that

1413
00:50:26,885 --> 00:50:28,556
to me is the big question with those,

1414
00:50:28,715 --> 00:50:30,465
you know, additives and other substances,

1415
00:50:31,022 --> 00:50:33,289
especially if they're if they're not of into

1416
00:50:33,590 --> 00:50:35,750
or, you know, kind messing with your your

1417
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:37,590
brain in a in a in an obvious

1418
00:50:37,590 --> 00:50:40,710
way. You know, are they really just kind

1419
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:43,222
of a trend in some of probably are

1420
00:50:43,518 --> 00:50:45,133
or are they actually

1421
00:50:45,509 --> 00:50:46,943
potentially healthy for you? And I think some

1422
00:50:46,943 --> 00:50:48,456
of them probably are that as well. And

1423
00:50:48,456 --> 00:50:50,447
if if they are, then then I'm totally,

1424
00:50:50,527 --> 00:50:53,811
you know, for it. Yeah. The the concern

1425
00:50:53,811 --> 00:50:54,790
that I have

1426
00:50:55,247 --> 00:50:55,747
is

1427
00:50:56,842 --> 00:50:58,756
part of my sobriety,

1428
00:50:59,873 --> 00:51:01,902
a huge part of my recovery has been

1429
00:51:02,436 --> 00:51:05,300
understanding what the underlying issues were. Mh. That

1430
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:07,607
caused me to drink medicinal. That caused me

1431
00:51:07,607 --> 00:51:09,934
to choose alcohol as my m adaptive coping

1432
00:51:09,934 --> 00:51:12,724
mechanism. Yeah. And there things like, you know,

1433
00:51:13,043 --> 00:51:14,022
stress and

1434
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:15,537
self inflicted

1435
00:51:16,233 --> 00:51:18,715
expectations. I would I I've talked a lot

1436
00:51:18,715 --> 00:51:20,940
on the podcast about how, you know, I

1437
00:51:20,940 --> 00:51:23,165
would set these goals for myself. And if

1438
00:51:23,165 --> 00:51:25,086
you... I stepped away and looked at them

1439
00:51:25,086 --> 00:51:25,563
objectively.

1440
00:51:26,356 --> 00:51:28,181
There was nothing to them. Like, Mh I

1441
00:51:28,181 --> 00:51:30,244
would set time parameters. I have to get

1442
00:51:30,244 --> 00:51:32,306
this done by this time. I wasn't gonna

1443
00:51:32,306 --> 00:51:33,753
make more money. I would gonna get a

1444
00:51:33,753 --> 00:51:35,667
gold star in the refrigerator, like, there was

1445
00:51:35,667 --> 00:51:37,262
nothing to my goal, but then I would

1446
00:51:37,262 --> 00:51:39,575
drive myself, like, held toward that goal. Mh.

1447
00:51:39,815 --> 00:51:41,011
And then I need to come down from

1448
00:51:41,011 --> 00:51:42,766
that, so I would self medicate with alcohol.

1449
00:51:43,259 --> 00:51:44,793
And for me, that was the biggest

1450
00:51:45,247 --> 00:51:46,065
of the

1451
00:51:47,315 --> 00:51:49,304
you know, underlying issues. Certainly once I had

1452
00:51:49,304 --> 00:51:51,709
it had drink long enough, I started have

1453
00:51:51,709 --> 00:51:53,382
problem anxiety and depression.

1454
00:51:53,940 --> 00:51:56,034
And I would drink to medicate those not

1455
00:51:56,172 --> 00:51:58,165
understanding that they were all... That the alcohol

1456
00:51:58,165 --> 00:52:00,896
was also the cause of the anxiety and

1457
00:52:00,896 --> 00:52:02,973
depression that's a a long road that many

1458
00:52:02,973 --> 00:52:04,492
of us go on before we figure that

1459
00:52:04,492 --> 00:52:07,296
out. So when I 1 watch Instagram videos

1460
00:52:07,296 --> 00:52:09,918
and someone's trying this new beverage that's got

1461
00:52:09,918 --> 00:52:11,667
whatever 1 of these things in it. Mh.

1462
00:52:11,905 --> 00:52:13,256
And they say, I do feel more relaxed.

1463
00:52:13,415 --> 00:52:14,980
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna have this

1464
00:52:15,259 --> 00:52:17,257
after work. Mh. My concern is,

1465
00:52:18,056 --> 00:52:20,694
isn't that just another form of self medication,

1466
00:52:20,934 --> 00:52:22,632
and are we just hopeful

1467
00:52:23,171 --> 00:52:25,525
that it's not as strong and dead Leah

1468
00:52:25,664 --> 00:52:28,461
alcohol. And and I know I'm... You've already

1469
00:52:28,461 --> 00:52:30,139
semi answered the question. I just wonder if

1470
00:52:30,139 --> 00:52:32,617
you would respond to my Yeah. Concern. Yeah.

1471
00:52:32,856 --> 00:52:34,829
I hear your concern. And so so I

1472
00:52:34,869 --> 00:52:36,458
a couple. I mean number 1 is that

1473
00:52:36,538 --> 00:52:39,080
I I believe. So I I'm a Zen

1474
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,748
buddhist, and that... That actually is a big

1475
00:52:40,748 --> 00:52:42,914
part of the reason that I drinking and

1476
00:52:42,914 --> 00:52:44,535
part of that path and exploring

1477
00:52:44,994 --> 00:52:45,474
different,

1478
00:52:46,835 --> 00:52:49,075
principles and ethics in in that, you know,

1479
00:52:50,675 --> 00:52:51,168
tricky vision,

1480
00:52:52,044 --> 00:52:53,579
also, very into mindfulness

1481
00:52:54,036 --> 00:52:54,911
meditation and,

1482
00:52:55,628 --> 00:52:57,938
believe in the power of mindfulness to heal,

1483
00:52:58,416 --> 00:52:59,985
including heal myself. So

1484
00:53:01,056 --> 00:53:01,294
I,

1485
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,865
a big reason that I quit drinking alcohol

1486
00:53:04,865 --> 00:53:07,008
was because I felt like it was getting

1487
00:53:07,008 --> 00:53:09,167
in the way of me seeing my self

1488
00:53:09,167 --> 00:53:11,634
and my problems and my, you know,

1489
00:53:12,669 --> 00:53:13,169
issues

1490
00:53:13,544 --> 00:53:15,852
for what they were as clearly as I

1491
00:53:15,852 --> 00:53:17,782
could and I I wanted to be with

1492
00:53:17,782 --> 00:53:20,097
my life, you know, as unfiltered as possible.

1493
00:53:20,257 --> 00:53:21,475
And I wanted to,

1494
00:53:22,013 --> 00:53:24,488
you know, address and reconcile with my challenges

1495
00:53:24,488 --> 00:53:25,686
and in my relationships,

1496
00:53:26,339 --> 00:53:28,813
know, as as directly in an unfiltered in

1497
00:53:28,813 --> 00:53:30,569
in, you know, real and authentic and true

1498
00:53:30,569 --> 00:53:34,000
way as I possibly could. No question alcohol

1499
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,215
was in the way of that.

1500
00:53:36,014 --> 00:53:38,014
You know, whether or not other things are

1501
00:53:38,014 --> 00:53:39,614
in the way of that I think tend

1502
00:53:39,614 --> 00:53:42,014
to get a little more subjective and comes

1503
00:53:42,014 --> 00:53:44,508
down to personal choice. And comfort level. And

1504
00:53:44,508 --> 00:53:46,346
so... And 111 way that I look at

1505
00:53:46,346 --> 00:53:48,823
it, which is you didn't ask directly, but

1506
00:53:48,823 --> 00:53:50,501
but as part of how I think about

1507
00:53:50,501 --> 00:53:51,140
this question.

1508
00:53:51,794 --> 00:53:55,458
Is that some some people I see say,

1509
00:53:55,618 --> 00:53:57,153
well, what was designated

1510
00:53:57,530 --> 00:53:59,840
as you know, part of Richard Nixon were

1511
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,007
on drugs in 19 7 too is all

1512
00:54:02,007 --> 00:54:04,798
the same to me as alcohol. Right? And

1513
00:54:04,798 --> 00:54:08,307
and everything that wasn't is okay. Mh. Including,

1514
00:54:08,466 --> 00:54:10,460
like, cigarettes. Mh. And coffee.

1515
00:54:11,509 --> 00:54:13,100
And so that's 1 way to draw a

1516
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:15,009
line between what we think is, you know,

1517
00:54:15,327 --> 00:54:17,610
helping us be clear minded about things in

1518
00:54:17,729 --> 00:54:18,128
what isn't.

1519
00:54:18,846 --> 00:54:21,877
I think the the the truth of what

1520
00:54:21,877 --> 00:54:22,994
is actually, you know,

1521
00:54:24,509 --> 00:54:26,604
cloud our minds and what isn't is is

1522
00:54:26,822 --> 00:54:28,351
much more ambiguous and subjective.

1523
00:54:29,227 --> 00:54:31,854
And worthy of, you know, some some,

1524
00:54:33,765 --> 00:54:35,835
investigation, you know, and not just buying into

1525
00:54:35,835 --> 00:54:38,482
what the kind of prevailing paradigm is at

1526
00:54:38,482 --> 00:54:39,700
the time. So

1527
00:54:40,955 --> 00:54:43,268
again, for me, the decision about a substance

1528
00:54:43,268 --> 00:54:45,740
is, okay. Well, if I find... And and

1529
00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:47,590
it's our to know. So I'm not necessarily

1530
00:54:47,590 --> 00:54:50,144
getting it right even for myself. But if

1531
00:54:50,224 --> 00:54:51,761
I find something is

1532
00:54:52,937 --> 00:54:55,180
you know, getting in between me and the

1533
00:54:55,180 --> 00:54:57,005
reality of my life and the reality of

1534
00:54:57,005 --> 00:54:59,807
my emotional problems and the difficulties in my

1535
00:54:59,863 --> 00:55:02,268
relationships and my ability to be a present

1536
00:55:02,324 --> 00:55:02,824
parent

1537
00:55:03,614 --> 00:55:05,451
you know, then I don't wanna do that

1538
00:55:05,451 --> 00:55:06,809
thing. If I could figure out that's what

1539
00:55:06,809 --> 00:55:07,288
it's doing.

1540
00:55:08,167 --> 00:55:10,654
Things that don't do that and might actually

1541
00:55:10,654 --> 00:55:11,210
help me,

1542
00:55:12,321 --> 00:55:15,101
be present, be calm, be, you know,

1543
00:55:16,291 --> 00:55:18,772
authentic in the moment with my problems with

1544
00:55:18,772 --> 00:55:21,085
the people I interact with, then I... You

1545
00:55:21,085 --> 00:55:23,078
know, I'm open to trying those things. If

1546
00:55:23,078 --> 00:55:23,237
that's,

1547
00:55:24,434 --> 00:55:26,826
what they're pointing to. So... But again,

1548
00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:29,956
even I figuring out what that is for

1549
00:55:29,956 --> 00:55:33,072
me is imperfect. So I'm not gonna figure

1550
00:55:33,072 --> 00:55:34,990
what that is for other people. You know,

1551
00:55:35,230 --> 00:55:37,005
they're gonna have to figure it out for

1552
00:55:37,005 --> 00:55:38,445
themselves. Well, and I think to a great

1553
00:55:38,445 --> 00:55:39,744
extent it would be helpful if

1554
00:55:40,045 --> 00:55:41,965
peep... If we all stopped relying on the

1555
00:55:41,965 --> 00:55:43,814
government to figure that out for us. Mh.

1556
00:55:44,052 --> 00:55:46,118
Like, you you pointed out, there seems to

1557
00:55:46,118 --> 00:55:48,660
be this line drawn and these substances are

1558
00:55:48,660 --> 00:55:50,487
bad, and these are good. I had had

1559
00:55:50,487 --> 00:55:51,543
a really

1560
00:55:51,854 --> 00:55:54,352
interesting conversation just earlier this week with someone

1561
00:55:54,731 --> 00:55:56,889
who has had a really bad experience with

1562
00:55:57,049 --> 00:55:58,967
Cra. Mh. Which is something I didn't know

1563
00:55:58,967 --> 00:56:00,805
a lot about, but I've run into enough

1564
00:56:00,805 --> 00:56:02,896
people that have have had this experience, but

1565
00:56:02,896 --> 00:56:04,492
this is something you can buy in gas

1566
00:56:04,492 --> 00:56:06,566
stations. I... Yeah. It's a team.

1567
00:56:07,045 --> 00:56:09,611
Yeah. And and I've had enough number of

1568
00:56:09,611 --> 00:56:12,230
people tell me, you know, what a kind

1569
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:14,476
of a train wreck made out of their

1570
00:56:14,769 --> 00:56:17,650
relationships and Mh. And they're... And and it's

1571
00:56:17,706 --> 00:56:19,385
tear difficult to get off of, I guess.

1572
00:56:19,622 --> 00:56:21,524
It's Yeah. It it may not have the

1573
00:56:21,524 --> 00:56:24,455
same physical withdrawals as alcohol does, but it's

1574
00:56:24,455 --> 00:56:26,798
just very very difficult to quit. And so

1575
00:56:27,094 --> 00:56:29,822
I think a focus on, what's the problem

1576
00:56:30,038 --> 00:56:31,788
that we're using the substance to try to

1577
00:56:31,788 --> 00:56:33,221
solve, and is there a different way to

1578
00:56:33,221 --> 00:56:35,948
solve it without the substance, Mh. Much of

1579
00:56:35,948 --> 00:56:36,987
what you're talking about

1580
00:56:37,546 --> 00:56:41,063
with your your your practice and your ability

1581
00:56:41,063 --> 00:56:43,780
to, you know, analyze your relationships and your

1582
00:56:43,780 --> 00:56:45,706
own well b seeing. I think that's the

1583
00:56:45,706 --> 00:56:47,454
key. I think any anytime I watch an

1584
00:56:47,693 --> 00:56:49,362
Instagram video, and I see some, oh, I

1585
00:56:49,362 --> 00:56:50,793
do feel calm, and I think well I

1586
00:56:50,793 --> 00:56:51,588
gotta jump on that.

1587
00:56:52,478 --> 00:56:55,190
That just scares me personally? Like, what's making

1588
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:56,944
me not calm? Like, can we address that

1589
00:56:56,944 --> 00:56:58,002
as opposed to

1590
00:56:58,380 --> 00:57:00,453
what what thing can I lay down my

1591
00:57:00,453 --> 00:57:02,855
credit card to make that the lack of

1592
00:57:02,855 --> 00:57:03,570
calm go away?

1593
00:57:04,523 --> 00:57:06,215
So I think the looking

1594
00:57:06,668 --> 00:57:08,098
inside is is big.

1595
00:57:08,813 --> 00:57:10,659
Bill, you mentioned that you're and buddhist.

1596
00:57:11,378 --> 00:57:13,456
You have a really exciting project that you've

1597
00:57:13,456 --> 00:57:15,214
been working on for some time now. You

1598
00:57:15,214 --> 00:57:16,652
have a book that's being published.

1599
00:57:17,292 --> 00:57:19,664
This coming March, March of 20 25

1600
00:57:20,105 --> 00:57:21,304
called the empty path.

1601
00:57:22,184 --> 00:57:23,945
Tell us about it. Thank you. So well,

1602
00:57:24,105 --> 00:57:26,105
the the Id actually started right around the

1603
00:57:26,105 --> 00:57:27,704
time I was closing awake,

1604
00:57:28,344 --> 00:57:28,844
and

1605
00:57:29,556 --> 00:57:31,965
1 thing that I realized at that time

1606
00:57:32,101 --> 00:57:32,999
was that

1607
00:57:33,772 --> 00:57:36,571
in my quest for, you know, fulfill and

1608
00:57:36,571 --> 00:57:39,458
peace in my life. I was constantly adding

1609
00:57:39,912 --> 00:57:42,989
more things, more practices, more ideas, more

1610
00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:46,650
you know, going to places and and more

1611
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:49,030
activity in the form of awake. And I

1612
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:51,269
truly don't regret or doing awake. It was

1613
00:57:51,269 --> 00:57:52,170
really a wonderful

1614
00:57:52,724 --> 00:57:53,123
all told.

1615
00:57:54,083 --> 00:57:56,560
But it was, you know, a I thing

1616
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,158
that I simply added on to every other

1617
00:57:58,158 --> 00:58:00,236
current thing that was going on in my

1618
00:58:00,236 --> 00:58:02,650
life. And I I found that, you know,

1619
00:58:02,889 --> 00:58:04,510
maybe it was time to take a different

1620
00:58:04,809 --> 00:58:06,109
approach into to

1621
00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:08,809
lessen the things in my life and try

1622
00:58:08,809 --> 00:58:10,170
to sort of pair back,

1623
00:58:10,730 --> 00:58:12,585
know, these things that I told myself. I

1624
00:58:12,585 --> 00:58:14,904
needed to find out what was... What's left

1625
00:58:14,904 --> 00:58:17,704
kind of underneath. And so the empty path

1626
00:58:17,704 --> 00:58:20,669
is is the the sub title is finding

1627
00:58:20,669 --> 00:58:22,733
fulfillment through the radical art of lessen. Mh

1628
00:58:22,813 --> 00:58:24,027
And so it's taking

1629
00:58:24,479 --> 00:58:27,257
a look at mindfulness practices and a little

1630
00:58:27,257 --> 00:58:29,895
bit of boot is teaching, but, you know,

1631
00:58:30,452 --> 00:58:32,282
explained in a, a way that hopefully, you

1632
00:58:32,282 --> 00:58:33,554
know, you don't need to background in buddhism,

1633
00:58:33,634 --> 00:58:35,146
are certainly to be a buddhist to understand.

1634
00:58:35,861 --> 00:58:38,418
And then applying that to different aspects of

1635
00:58:38,418 --> 00:58:40,504
our life, like, our work and our family

1636
00:58:40,639 --> 00:58:41,297
and our

1637
00:58:42,224 --> 00:58:45,054
emotional challenges, and I do talk about my

1638
00:58:45,174 --> 00:58:47,487
experience with alcohol and and certainly about, you

1639
00:58:47,487 --> 00:58:49,082
know, my experience with wake,

1640
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,975
through it. So there's an inter reading of

1641
00:58:52,672 --> 00:58:54,027
in an effort to make this a very

1642
00:58:54,027 --> 00:58:54,527
practical

1643
00:58:55,556 --> 00:58:57,700
application of some of these ideas that might

1644
00:58:57,700 --> 00:58:59,367
feel a little bit esoteric at first.

1645
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,543
That's great. I'm super excited to read it.

1646
00:59:03,179 --> 00:59:05,760
I think it's fascinating meeting that

1647
00:59:06,452 --> 00:59:08,122
more and more of the people that we

1648
00:59:08,122 --> 00:59:11,405
meet that are seeking an alcohol free lifestyle

1649
00:59:11,780 --> 00:59:15,452
are doing so because they've fall and victim

1650
00:59:15,452 --> 00:59:17,518
to what I think is being called now

1651
00:59:17,518 --> 00:59:20,140
hustle culture. Right? Mh. This idea of more

1652
00:59:20,140 --> 00:59:22,603
and more and more. And if nobody else

1653
00:59:22,603 --> 00:59:25,083
is driving me. I'll just drive myself to

1654
00:59:25,083 --> 00:59:26,913
the to the brink of a mental breakdown.

1655
00:59:27,549 --> 00:59:28,027
And so,

1656
00:59:28,663 --> 00:59:31,780
I think that message is very timely, and

1657
00:59:32,178 --> 00:59:33,769
we're very excited to have you on and

1658
00:59:33,769 --> 00:59:35,519
be able to do our little part to

1659
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:37,684
promote the book. We will put a link

1660
00:59:37,684 --> 00:59:39,065
in the show notes

1661
00:59:39,364 --> 00:59:42,085
to billy dot com where you've got,

1662
00:59:42,485 --> 00:59:44,244
the initial kind of announcement about the book

1663
00:59:44,244 --> 00:59:45,858
and where as goes on, people will be

1664
00:59:45,858 --> 00:59:47,295
able to find more and figure out when

1665
00:59:47,295 --> 00:59:49,290
it's time to to get on the pre

1666
00:59:49,290 --> 00:59:50,967
order in the order list. Right? That's right.

1667
00:59:51,206 --> 00:59:52,803
Yep. That'll be the the weird place to

1668
00:59:52,803 --> 00:59:54,375
get that and a little bit about the

1669
00:59:55,130 --> 00:59:56,721
meditation teaching that I'm doing now and some

1670
00:59:56,721 --> 00:59:58,311
other things that have going on, folks will

1671
00:59:58,311 --> 01:00:00,777
find there as well. That's great. The empty

1672
01:00:00,777 --> 01:00:03,417
path, the publisher is new world library we're

1673
01:00:03,417 --> 01:00:05,642
excited for March of 20 25.

1674
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:07,629
Billy, thank you so much for coming on

1675
01:00:07,629 --> 01:00:10,593
the podcast. I think your your experience

1676
01:00:11,222 --> 01:00:13,453
as happens to us once we reach, you

1677
01:00:13,453 --> 01:00:14,011
know, the,

1678
01:00:14,728 --> 01:00:16,959
the middle age that we've already used. But

1679
01:00:16,959 --> 01:00:19,110
the experience starts to pile up. And when

1680
01:00:19,110 --> 01:00:21,119
we do something meaningful with those experiences, and

1681
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:23,440
we have insights to share. You are just...

1682
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:25,840
You're a blessing to Sherry and I as

1683
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:27,280
a friend, but you're a blessing to our

1684
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,291
community, not just in Denver, but in a

1685
01:00:29,291 --> 01:00:31,604
much broader sense, and we hope you keep

1686
01:00:31,604 --> 01:00:33,279
sharing what you're learning with the world. Thanks

1687
01:00:33,279 --> 01:00:34,874
for being here, Billy. Thank you, matt. Thank

1688
01:00:34,874 --> 01:00:36,469
you Sharing your support and friendship. Means a

1689
01:00:36,469 --> 01:00:37,826
lot to me too. Glad it be on.

1690
01:00:40,637 --> 01:00:42,555
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these

1691
01:00:42,555 --> 01:00:43,434
3 resources.

1692
01:00:43,994 --> 01:00:46,151
If you love or loved an alcoholic, we

1693
01:00:46,151 --> 01:00:48,721
offer support and connection in our of recovery

1694
01:00:48,721 --> 01:00:51,452
group. Check us out at echoes of recovery

1695
01:00:51,509 --> 01:00:54,081
dot org. If you are a high functioning

1696
01:00:54,139 --> 01:00:56,382
alcoholic like seeking meth fits and connection in

1697
01:00:56,382 --> 01:00:57,178
early sobriety.

1698
01:00:57,735 --> 01:01:00,121
We're ready for you at shout sobriety dot

1699
01:01:00,121 --> 01:01:02,920
org. No matter who you are, something for

1700
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,861
you in our book. Sober revolution, evolve into

1701
01:01:05,861 --> 01:01:08,882
sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage. Go to

1702
01:01:08,882 --> 01:01:11,762
sober revolution dot org. For my wife Sherry

1703
01:01:11,922 --> 01:01:14,630
Sal, I'm Matt Sal. Thanks for listening to

1704
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:16,087
the intoxicated podcast.

1705
01:01:17,260 --> 01:01:17,309
Dot