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Welcome to the intoxicated

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podcast.

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Well, I'm Sherry S, and that was my

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husband Matt. We have questions about the impact

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of alcohol and addiction on relationships. If you

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have those kinds of questions to you're in

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the right place, Here we go.

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Welcome to the intoxicated podcast melanie.

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I know how excited

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Sherry and I both are to have you

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because,

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when we just love having guests on. But

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also because in the

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few months that we've known you now, you

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have become a dear sweet friend and a

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really important part of our lives. And anytime

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we get a chance to interact with you,

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it's a huge blessing

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And so thank you for taking the time

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and being with us on the intoxicated podcast

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melanie.

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Thank you for having me. Melanie

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is besides a friend of ours.

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Her husband named Scott suffered from alcohol use

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disorder.

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She has 3 kids

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she has... Is a dog and cat lover

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and has them usually on the video screen

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when we're on Zoom calls, so Sherry gets

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to look and admire.

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And gus over them.

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Along with your husband, Scott, you started businesses

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together, and so you are a business owner

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And Sadly Melanie, you for a little over

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a year now,

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anniversary was in June, I believe,

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you are a widow.

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Yes.

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Well, thank you for coming on. I know

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how

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difficult this is, but it's really, really important.

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And so

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Thank you so much for coming on and

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telling your story. And so I think

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we should jump right in

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with your story and and let's start for

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the beginning how you and Scott met and

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and what were the early years like?

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Okay.

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Well, we met in... I think it was

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94. It was kind of my first main

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job out of college.

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I went to school for social work. So

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I got a job and a group home

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for adolescent girls and Scott worked was my

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coworker.

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We worked they they referred to it as

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the mom pop shift because we,

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had the shift where the kids came home

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from school, bed dinner, you know, homework and

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got him ready for bed. So we

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we got a along well as coworkers and

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Was was it always was it always a

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Like, yeah. I've heard you describe it as

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the mom and pox shift before. Is it...

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Did it? Did did it have to be

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a man and a woman? Like, that's kinda...

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No. No. Not. No. Was. And and actually

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there was... I mean, because we didn't work

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all 4, you know, weekdays together. So, you

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know, it it wasn't... It was just kind,

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but that's just still how they referred to

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it just because know, but kinda taking the

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role parents during that shift. So,

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the note wasn't always a man in the

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woman, but... Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

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You,

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so, yeah. And

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there was always, you know, kind of a

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physical attraction.

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We would...

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Touch fingers exchanging the master key and there'd

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be a tingle, and

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so we just... And we we really gel

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really well together and and

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kind of how we how we kind of

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parent, You know, that was kind of the

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job was to to, you know, your your

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counselor, but you're also

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acting as the parent, and just got really

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along really well. Had shared good interest together.

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He was kinda of my my dream guy,

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he was kind of a bad boy with

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a good heart.

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He

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had long, like, look care almost down to

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his waist curly and

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he rode motorcycles

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and

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but... Yeah. We just

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had a lot of fun together.

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We would when we then then did start

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dating, and

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we would go camping in the boundary waters

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for a couple weeks at a time,

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Just enjoyed each other's company. There wasn't

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alcohol wasn't really a part of our... We

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were more likely to smoke a little weed

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than we were to drink.

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So it wasn't really a part of who

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we were.

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But we just had fun together and

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So... And, I mean, we would have

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hours long phone conversations, and he I'm from

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a big family. And he would have spreadsheets

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of

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who, you know, like a family trees that

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he would draw out as we were talking.

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I didn't know this at the time, but

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he would just ask questions, and so he

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was kinda getting the information

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preparing, I think. So...

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That's great. What what a interesting start to

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the relationship?

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It's too bad every couple doesn't get a

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chance to work the mom and pop ship,

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shift at a girl's home. You get to

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practice parenting. You get to practice c parenting

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and see what kind of person

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you're getting yourself involved with. So that's that's

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really cool.

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Yep. That's what I thought too.

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Yeah.

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So,

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little weed, maybe on the camping trips, but

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no alcohol yet. Well, first, before we get

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into alcohol, how did you transition from

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from that, you know, the social worker role

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to

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owning businesses.

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Well, we were kinda tired of living and...

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Poverty particularly. So okay. Moments.

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We started the business part time when we

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were both still working for full time

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And we actually,

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became business partners before we got married,

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and then

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got married and still were working

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I kinda trans... He stayed at the group.

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I kinda transitioned I I tried to tried

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my hand in real estate me.

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And and ended up at a, like, software

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company doing kinda tech writing and stuff.

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So...

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And that was when we probably started our

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family then. We had my,

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my first son, my oldest son was born

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in 2001.

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And

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at that point,

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Scott became a stay at home dad.

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Any work of business full time. I was

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still working to have health insurance and and

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that. So... And then I think it was

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about a year when my son was year

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old when I was able to... We kinda

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took the leap and I quit to, and

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and we just worked the business from full

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time from then on

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And who it... The business is not related

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to social work. It's not related to real

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estate. It's related related to your and passion

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of animals. Right. Yeah. Yes.

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Yeah. Very cool.

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Right. So that is quite quite leap. But,

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obviously,

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it worked out and

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you know, the business took off and was

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successful. Yeah?

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Yes. Yeah. I mean, it took time and

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hard work. But, yeah. I mean, right now

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and we started a second business and, like,

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thousand 5,

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had 2 little ones at that point.

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And

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I started a manufacturing business too. So we

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have employees. We have... Yeah. So it's it's

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worked out well. It's it's something we both

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enjoyed and

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and he... He's, you know, kind of always

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been an entrepreneur

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from

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grade school days when he used to

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take copper wire from his garage and sell

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it to kids at school whatever for reason

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or or he would buy both bubble gum

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and then go sell it at lunch for,

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you know, however very much a piece and

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and make money. So, yeah, Kinda got trouble

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for that. But... But... Yeah. So we all

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had that... We had a kid that did

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that with with Ta, the spicy chip. First,

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he did it with doughnuts.

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But... And that is it with the spicy

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chips some the school bus. But his brother

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would eat too many of the if buy

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a big bulk bag. It's chips and his

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younger brother would eat half of them before

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he could sell them and so that just

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became a big big fight in the house.

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But I love the entrepreneurial spirit. That's great.

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Along with that kind of

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entrepreneurial spirit and the leap of faith

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and, you know,

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starting businesses,

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That's... It it is hard work as you

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mentioned and eventually was successful for you, but

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it's also really stressful.

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Was... Yeah. How how did both of you?

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How did you and Scott deal with the

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stress of the unknown, especially now you got

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kids. Right?

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Right.

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Well, I think we, you know, we had

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our third

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little girl in 2006,

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and that was that completed our our kid

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family. And,

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I think

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really the first really stressful time was probably

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2008

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during the economic downturn

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in o 8, and

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that was... It became really stressful where we

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were kind of putting a lot of,

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using our credit card balances to to keep

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a afloat and and while we kind of

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pivoted to to more business to business,

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try to, you know, expand in different areas

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and things like that. And that was also

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kind of the time when

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a drink at night to wind down kinda

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started for both of us.

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Mh. So that was kind of the where

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I would say,

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any kind of unhealthy

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relationship with alcohol started

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was during

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the the stressful time of the business. And

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and, you know, and he

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otherwise, his mind didn't shut off.

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The kinda keep keep thinking about... It was

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hard to get him to step away. From

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from work. So...

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Yeah.

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Very familiar.

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With the the chaotic mind that won't shut

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off and you. I know Sherry

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dinner relate to the idea of,

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you know, it's well into the evening, and

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I'm still talking about ideas or thoughts. Mh.

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It's hard to deal with,

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Yeah. It is. Yeah.

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Alright. So...

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But it's... But so far, it's just a

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a drink unwind.

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Couldn't possibly be any red flags for you

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at this point. Right? This is just were

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adults in the is how we is how

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we adult. Right?

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Right. Yeah. No there really wasn't them. It

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wasn't like he us

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or either of us were drinking to excess

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at that time or anything like that. It

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was just... Yeah. Just to be able to

276
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kinda shut your mind off and go to

277
00:10:02,032 --> 00:10:02,532
sleep

278
00:10:02,909 --> 00:10:03,707
Yeah. At night.

279
00:10:04,744 --> 00:10:05,244
So

280
00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:07,695
tell us what happens next? How does it

281
00:10:07,695 --> 00:10:07,934
progress?

282
00:10:10,975 --> 00:10:12,270
Well, I think that

283
00:10:14,473 --> 00:10:16,302
there was time to where where... I think

284
00:10:16,302 --> 00:10:17,495
it got to be more and more for

285
00:10:17,654 --> 00:10:17,892
Scott.

286
00:10:19,339 --> 00:10:21,595
He had some sci back pain

287
00:10:22,692 --> 00:10:25,646
that he kinda self medicated for too, even

288
00:10:25,646 --> 00:10:27,482
as much sorry get up in the night

289
00:10:27,482 --> 00:10:30,134
and and drink a couple beers because it

290
00:10:30,134 --> 00:10:30,634
hurt,

291
00:10:31,335 --> 00:10:32,455
you know, be able to go back to

292
00:10:32,455 --> 00:10:34,375
sleep, which is, you know, again,

293
00:10:35,095 --> 00:10:35,815
unhealthy coping.

294
00:10:37,187 --> 00:10:37,983
Mechanism, but...

295
00:10:39,656 --> 00:10:41,408
So I think that kind of started,

296
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:44,993
amp up for him, and I really was

297
00:10:44,993 --> 00:10:47,325
not aware. Of that at the time. I

298
00:10:47,325 --> 00:10:49,725
didn't know that he was drinking more and

299
00:10:49,725 --> 00:10:49,884
more.

300
00:10:51,965 --> 00:10:53,620
He... There was a time

301
00:10:54,777 --> 00:10:56,214
now looking back on it, I'm...

302
00:10:57,012 --> 00:10:57,991
It was probably

303
00:10:59,167 --> 00:10:59,907
his first

304
00:11:00,844 --> 00:11:01,344
withdrawal

305
00:11:01,961 --> 00:11:02,280
seizure.

306
00:11:03,493 --> 00:11:05,328
I thought at the time that he fell,

307
00:11:05,647 --> 00:11:06,285
hit his head,

308
00:11:07,562 --> 00:11:09,797
gave himself a concussion and then had a

309
00:11:09,797 --> 00:11:10,196
seizure.

310
00:11:10,849 --> 00:11:13,162
But my thought process now is it was

311
00:11:13,162 --> 00:11:13,662
probably

312
00:11:15,475 --> 00:11:17,629
a seizure and then he fell and hit

313
00:11:17,629 --> 00:11:20,634
his head. Mh. Because III

314
00:11:20,834 --> 00:11:21,653
found him

315
00:11:22,031 --> 00:11:23,706
composing, called the ambulance.

316
00:11:24,425 --> 00:11:26,020
Get he didn't wanna go in the Ambulance,

317
00:11:26,180 --> 00:11:27,457
but he was out of it enough that

318
00:11:27,457 --> 00:11:28,095
they took him,

319
00:11:28,909 --> 00:11:31,167
like, thought member found the ambulance

320
00:11:31,866 --> 00:11:34,284
to the hospital, like, what's going on and

321
00:11:34,903 --> 00:11:36,901
getting there and and they did, you know,

322
00:11:37,061 --> 00:11:38,673
test is, what I'll alcohol was 0,

323
00:11:39,549 --> 00:11:42,339
but he was just shaky still. And he

324
00:11:42,339 --> 00:11:44,114
only had the... All the

325
00:11:44,809 --> 00:11:47,791
Mris and 0 cat scan and stuff to

326
00:11:47,927 --> 00:11:50,391
to make sure nothing more serious was going

327
00:11:50,391 --> 00:11:50,550
on,

328
00:11:51,265 --> 00:11:52,958
but I really think that was probably

329
00:11:53,983 --> 00:11:55,494
the first... And I don't know if that

330
00:11:55,494 --> 00:11:58,279
was maybe 2010, 2011

331
00:11:58,279 --> 00:11:58,915
somewhere in there.

332
00:12:00,347 --> 00:12:02,990
Were... But again, I was clueless to that

333
00:12:02,990 --> 00:12:04,029
that that was going on.

334
00:12:04,669 --> 00:12:07,089
What's really interesting about that is

335
00:12:07,549 --> 00:12:09,870
a lot of people aren't aware, probably lots

336
00:12:09,870 --> 00:12:11,789
of people who listen to this podcast are

337
00:12:11,789 --> 00:12:13,715
aware but a lot of people aren't aware

338
00:12:13,715 --> 00:12:16,894
that alcohol is actually the most dangerous of

339
00:12:16,894 --> 00:12:19,675
the drugs to come off of once you're

340
00:12:19,675 --> 00:12:20,629
physically addicted.

341
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,871
You you don't get withdrawal seizures from, even

342
00:12:24,871 --> 00:12:27,366
heroin or methamphetamine. This is a

343
00:12:28,063 --> 00:12:31,183
alcohol specific thing, and So quitting cold turkey

344
00:12:31,183 --> 00:12:33,485
or going through long periods of sobriety or

345
00:12:33,485 --> 00:12:35,389
any really period of sobriety. Once your body

346
00:12:35,389 --> 00:12:36,659
is dependent on the substance.

347
00:12:37,389 --> 00:12:39,136
Is really dangerous and leads to the kind

348
00:12:39,136 --> 00:12:42,312
of seizures you're talking about. What's interesting though

349
00:12:42,312 --> 00:12:43,050
is that,

350
00:12:43,741 --> 00:12:45,409
you know, so you're aware that he's having

351
00:12:45,409 --> 00:12:47,335
a drink or 2 at night. But you're

352
00:12:47,335 --> 00:12:50,394
not aware that he has formed this dependency

353
00:12:51,014 --> 00:12:53,095
because he's in addition to what you're seeing.

354
00:12:53,254 --> 00:12:55,590
He's also sneak drinking like you mentioned for

355
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:56,950
a little bit of medicinal drinking in the

356
00:12:56,950 --> 00:12:58,070
middle of the night, that kind of thing?

357
00:12:58,629 --> 00:13:00,950
Mh. Yeah. Just stuff I wasn't aware of.

358
00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:03,690
So... Yeah. So yeah look I

359
00:13:04,643 --> 00:13:06,319
when you look back, were you able to

360
00:13:06,319 --> 00:13:09,111
piece together how much he was he was

361
00:13:09,111 --> 00:13:09,430
drinking?

362
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:11,345
Or is that still kind of a mystery

363
00:13:11,345 --> 00:13:13,279
for you? That's the kind of a mystery.

364
00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:14,659
I really don't

365
00:13:15,039 --> 00:13:17,519
know for sure. Because, again, I... This is

366
00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:19,679
all kind of... I wasn't anything at the

367
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:20,659
time that I

368
00:13:21,053 --> 00:13:22,166
realized was going on.

369
00:13:23,438 --> 00:13:24,575
So I didn't

370
00:13:25,029 --> 00:13:27,653
didn't understand the the reasons I just thought,

371
00:13:27,812 --> 00:13:29,721
yeah, He had a concussion. That was that

372
00:13:29,721 --> 00:13:30,730
was it. So

373
00:13:32,607 --> 00:13:34,285
I mean, the the... I just think that's

374
00:13:34,285 --> 00:13:35,903
really important to highlight because

375
00:13:36,522 --> 00:13:38,061
the trauma that you've experienced

376
00:13:38,694 --> 00:13:41,012
is twofold to me. There's the trauma that's

377
00:13:41,012 --> 00:13:43,489
obvious. There's the stuff that you you did

378
00:13:43,489 --> 00:13:45,408
realize you saw with your own eyes. And

379
00:13:45,408 --> 00:13:48,065
then there's just the the unknown that

380
00:13:48,539 --> 00:13:49,595
the une

381
00:13:50,207 --> 00:13:52,613
experiences that you struggled through

382
00:13:53,226 --> 00:13:55,847
that at the time anyway, and and like

383
00:13:55,847 --> 00:13:57,855
we I said even now, You're not sure

384
00:13:57,855 --> 00:13:59,695
exactly how much he was drinking or where

385
00:13:59,695 --> 00:14:00,894
or how or when?

386
00:14:02,254 --> 00:14:04,355
So I just think it's a it's a

387
00:14:04,669 --> 00:14:06,842
The unknown it can be as trauma

388
00:14:07,219 --> 00:14:09,688
as the known can be as well because,

389
00:14:09,848 --> 00:14:11,441
you don't know what... You know, you can

390
00:14:11,441 --> 00:14:11,894
only

391
00:14:12,253 --> 00:14:14,402
play with the cards you're you're dealt and

392
00:14:14,402 --> 00:14:16,472
there's stuff going on that you're not aware

393
00:14:16,472 --> 00:14:18,542
of. So I just think that's really, really,

394
00:14:18,701 --> 00:14:19,418
really difficult.

395
00:14:20,309 --> 00:14:22,389
You, when it it became... I became more

396
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:25,110
and more aware Time Yeah So and, you

397
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:27,190
know, but, yeah, At first, I wasn't. So...

398
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:29,923
Talk talk about that. When did, when was

399
00:14:29,923 --> 00:14:31,596
it not just a drink her 2 at

400
00:14:31,596 --> 00:14:32,951
night and then hit and drink he weren't

401
00:14:32,951 --> 00:14:34,784
aware of? What what happened to kinda bring

402
00:14:34,784 --> 00:14:35,422
it down to the light?

403
00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:37,096
I well,

404
00:14:37,669 --> 00:14:39,662
don't know what... Well, I think that my

405
00:14:39,662 --> 00:14:42,713
my daughter was my youngest was was diagnosed

406
00:14:42,771 --> 00:14:44,148
on the autism spectrum

407
00:14:45,083 --> 00:14:46,062
when she was

408
00:14:46,454 --> 00:14:49,331
5 or 6 years old. And I think

409
00:14:49,331 --> 00:14:51,169
that hit him really hard and then I

410
00:14:51,169 --> 00:14:53,247
knew that he was kinda drinking more and

411
00:14:53,247 --> 00:14:54,626
more. It wasn't always

412
00:14:56,138 --> 00:14:57,889
a lot. I think the pink drinks got

413
00:14:57,889 --> 00:15:00,117
bigger, like, in bigger and bigger glasses and

414
00:15:00,117 --> 00:15:01,174
stronger and stronger

415
00:15:02,584 --> 00:15:04,516
for him. Now and

416
00:15:08,097 --> 00:15:08,597
he

417
00:15:10,332 --> 00:15:11,529
there was... I know there was a time

418
00:15:11,529 --> 00:15:12,726
on a family vacation.

419
00:15:13,536 --> 00:15:15,066
Where it really kind of all

420
00:15:15,675 --> 00:15:17,998
got really bad where it was hard liquor

421
00:15:18,131 --> 00:15:20,033
because it it was normally a beer drinker.

422
00:15:20,524 --> 00:15:22,518
But there was we were on vacation. So,

423
00:15:22,916 --> 00:15:25,228
of course, you're gonna break out the hard

424
00:15:25,228 --> 00:15:27,780
liquor, and there was a an incident,

425
00:15:30,026 --> 00:15:30,844
at night

426
00:15:31,537 --> 00:15:32,674
where where

427
00:15:33,765 --> 00:15:35,537
it was close to violence

428
00:15:36,882 --> 00:15:39,350
And I ended up, you know, leaving before

429
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:40,145
sleep on the couch,

430
00:15:41,021 --> 00:15:43,192
and in the next morning, he had no

431
00:15:43,806 --> 00:15:44,616
recollection. At all.

432
00:15:45,409 --> 00:15:47,496
So this was kind of the first

433
00:15:48,424 --> 00:15:49,852
venture into the rules, you know,

434
00:15:50,725 --> 00:15:52,494
they're gonna have that school that they're

435
00:15:52,804 --> 00:15:56,184
there's no more hard hard liquor that's just

436
00:15:56,404 --> 00:15:57,204
not acceptable.

437
00:15:59,284 --> 00:15:59,784
So

438
00:16:01,692 --> 00:16:03,679
yeah. That was... And that way, you know,

439
00:16:05,586 --> 00:16:07,812
as you might expect, there sometimes there was

440
00:16:07,812 --> 00:16:09,695
some hard liquor and it was

441
00:16:10,212 --> 00:16:12,145
that he didn't think I would know, or

442
00:16:12,202 --> 00:16:13,874
if I happen to have wine in the

443
00:16:13,874 --> 00:16:16,341
house, he would, drink... You know, drink that.

444
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:17,557
Like... There was never

445
00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:19,549
you would never have leftover wine.

446
00:16:20,669 --> 00:16:22,750
That was always gone by the morning. Our,

447
00:16:23,789 --> 00:16:25,389
or, you know, a Christmas... It's Christmas time.

448
00:16:25,549 --> 00:16:26,370
We have to

449
00:16:27,004 --> 00:16:29,002
have bailey or... You know, there was there

450
00:16:29,002 --> 00:16:30,541
was times when It was

451
00:16:32,039 --> 00:16:34,596
exceptions to our our our rules,

452
00:16:36,208 --> 00:16:38,119
How much did he involve you in the

453
00:16:38,119 --> 00:16:40,031
rule making? Like, was he telling you what

454
00:16:40,031 --> 00:16:41,783
he was doing or asking your opinion?

455
00:16:42,499 --> 00:16:44,410
No. That was actually more my rule of

456
00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:46,751
of the hard liquor rule because because...

457
00:16:47,362 --> 00:16:49,822
Yeah. I got... But so his were more

458
00:16:49,822 --> 00:16:49,981
like,

459
00:16:50,695 --> 00:16:52,600
like, he was cutting back. And he was

460
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,000
his his quitting plan could have lasted, you

461
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:55,897
know, a century

462
00:16:56,272 --> 00:16:57,784
because he was cutting back and cutting back,

463
00:16:57,943 --> 00:16:59,795
but it never really... It was more like

464
00:17:00,904 --> 00:17:02,742
how much do you think I'm drinking? Okay.

465
00:17:02,982 --> 00:17:03,142
That's...

466
00:17:04,420 --> 00:17:06,019
I don't know. It it wasn't real. It...

467
00:17:06,418 --> 00:17:08,017
So the rules we put around are drinking.

468
00:17:08,176 --> 00:17:11,067
The rules for alcoholic. They're all sadly rules

469
00:17:11,067 --> 00:17:12,184
that are made to be broken.

470
00:17:12,982 --> 00:17:13,482
So

471
00:17:14,419 --> 00:17:15,239
are you

472
00:17:15,776 --> 00:17:17,612
confronting him a lot at this or at

473
00:17:17,612 --> 00:17:19,460
this point are you Are you telling him,

474
00:17:19,618 --> 00:17:21,527
hey, I think you've got a problem. Is

475
00:17:21,527 --> 00:17:24,470
he acknowledging that? Or is there denial involved?

476
00:17:27,908 --> 00:17:29,267
Yeah. There's... I mean,

477
00:17:29,986 --> 00:17:30,465
I think it...

478
00:17:31,424 --> 00:17:33,342
There's only so much denial you can do.

479
00:17:33,582 --> 00:17:35,360
And and... Yeah, This is where the

480
00:17:36,152 --> 00:17:37,824
different plans for cutting back,

481
00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:40,771
and and kind of admin admitting that he

482
00:17:40,771 --> 00:17:42,683
had a problem, but but more, like, well,

483
00:17:42,842 --> 00:17:44,196
if this is what you want me to

484
00:17:44,196 --> 00:17:44,435
do,

485
00:17:45,009 --> 00:17:46,690
Okay. Then I'll do it. You know, I

486
00:17:46,690 --> 00:17:48,289
don't have a problem with that When in

487
00:17:48,450 --> 00:17:50,049
Melanie, he did have a problem with that.

488
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:51,109
I mean, because

489
00:17:52,544 --> 00:17:54,297
I remember 1 of the attempts was

490
00:17:54,775 --> 00:17:56,210
to do 1 beer an hour,

491
00:17:56,848 --> 00:17:57,348
and

492
00:17:57,725 --> 00:18:00,116
and, you know, so... And even that,

493
00:18:00,769 --> 00:18:01,988
we were... Every everybody

494
00:18:02,367 --> 00:18:03,506
this is 1 of the

495
00:18:04,045 --> 00:18:05,004
traumatic events too.

496
00:18:05,723 --> 00:18:06,542
We were watching

497
00:18:07,241 --> 00:18:08,335
movie. It was called

498
00:18:08,853 --> 00:18:10,128
I think World war z,

499
00:18:11,484 --> 00:18:13,238
something like that. And the the premise of

500
00:18:13,238 --> 00:18:14,833
the movie was some kind of

501
00:18:15,550 --> 00:18:17,876
illness that people were getting it would turn

502
00:18:17,876 --> 00:18:19,705
him into, like, a Zombie. Right? But the

503
00:18:19,705 --> 00:18:20,841
first part of it was

504
00:18:21,295 --> 00:18:23,601
having a seizure was how that was when

505
00:18:23,601 --> 00:18:25,430
they were infected. So me and my 2

506
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:26,861
sons and him were watching this movie would

507
00:18:26,861 --> 00:18:28,947
be he doing this 1 beer Howard thing.

508
00:18:29,505 --> 00:18:32,055
And all a sudden, he's beside me shaking,

509
00:18:32,374 --> 00:18:33,888
and I'm think we're thinking oh, come on

510
00:18:33,888 --> 00:18:34,446
dad, you know.

511
00:18:35,178 --> 00:18:37,725
Knock it off. Yes pretend. He's playing up

512
00:18:37,725 --> 00:18:40,192
the zombie thing. Right. I thought about what

513
00:18:40,192 --> 00:18:41,864
it was, but no. It was a seizure.

514
00:18:42,103 --> 00:18:42,603
And

515
00:18:43,137 --> 00:18:44,172
just from cutting back,

516
00:18:45,302 --> 00:18:46,737
So it had to be... Wow.

517
00:18:47,295 --> 00:18:49,288
A lot more than that. So that even

518
00:18:49,288 --> 00:18:51,600
that just cutting back not not going to

519
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,716
nothing or not, you know,

520
00:18:53,528 --> 00:18:55,360
2 and 8, whatever. Nothing like that. It

521
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:56,316
was just 1 an hour.

522
00:18:57,351 --> 00:18:58,227
Wow. Mh.

523
00:18:58,864 --> 00:19:00,776
And it was... Yeah. We never finished watching

524
00:19:00,776 --> 00:19:01,913
that movie. So

525
00:19:02,304 --> 00:19:04,294
It was... Yeah. But... Yeah. Just... So... Yeah.

526
00:19:04,532 --> 00:19:06,602
There was several attempts over the year. So

527
00:19:06,602 --> 00:19:07,636
he did... Yes, say,

528
00:19:08,671 --> 00:19:09,569
there was a

529
00:19:10,438 --> 00:19:12,273
problem, but he wouldn't... He didn't like the

530
00:19:12,273 --> 00:19:15,645
term alcoholic. He didn't wanna label himself that,

531
00:19:17,714 --> 00:19:20,371
that was... That was never something he really

532
00:19:20,829 --> 00:19:22,368
accepted, I guess, and

533
00:19:22,747 --> 00:19:23,486
as a

534
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:25,957
I don't know. I guess, just because he

535
00:19:25,957 --> 00:19:28,194
didn't wanna announce the world. I'm in alcoholic

536
00:19:28,194 --> 00:19:29,872
and you know... Like, like, like, the the

537
00:19:29,951 --> 00:19:32,357
Aa beginning of the beating is. My name

538
00:19:32,357 --> 00:19:34,446
is Got alcoholic that was never gonna

539
00:19:34,899 --> 00:19:36,091
never gonna be. So...

540
00:19:36,727 --> 00:19:39,605
Mh. So was it you know, obviously, you've

541
00:19:39,605 --> 00:19:41,996
got these traumatic experiences, but was it also

542
00:19:41,996 --> 00:19:42,496
causing

543
00:19:42,951 --> 00:19:45,023
friction in the marriage where you fighting a

544
00:19:45,023 --> 00:19:45,262
lot?

545
00:19:46,298 --> 00:19:48,152
What... It was it just hard to

546
00:19:48,464 --> 00:19:49,661
See on things?

547
00:19:50,858 --> 00:19:52,535
Yeah. It was... I mean, we still...

548
00:19:53,413 --> 00:19:55,408
You know, there was things that we did

549
00:19:55,488 --> 00:19:56,445
See on.

550
00:19:57,257 --> 00:19:59,085
Still... I mean, kind of the the big

551
00:19:59,085 --> 00:19:59,982
things. But

552
00:20:01,309 --> 00:20:02,580
but, yeah, there was a lot of...

553
00:20:03,296 --> 00:20:04,726
I don't know if it was just caused

554
00:20:04,726 --> 00:20:05,226
by

555
00:20:07,369 --> 00:20:08,884
me wanting him to cut back, and that

556
00:20:08,884 --> 00:20:10,637
was what caused a lot of the friction.

557
00:20:11,754 --> 00:20:14,087
But there also were things that

558
00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:16,019
but

559
00:20:16,399 --> 00:20:16,899
he

560
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,440
it made him irritable it started to change

561
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,159
him, and and and it he was not

562
00:20:22,159 --> 00:20:24,214
being as nice to the kids and

563
00:20:25,529 --> 00:20:27,201
It's was like, we couldn't do anything right

564
00:20:27,201 --> 00:20:27,998
to please him.

565
00:20:29,352 --> 00:20:30,250
So there was

566
00:20:30,626 --> 00:20:32,936
there was conflict, and I mean, I know

567
00:20:33,175 --> 00:20:34,936
I've talk to you guys before about the

568
00:20:34,936 --> 00:20:36,999
lawn. I I was never so tired of

569
00:20:36,999 --> 00:20:39,616
hearing about the damn lawn. It's grass. I

570
00:20:39,616 --> 00:20:41,306
really don't care if it's

571
00:20:41,773 --> 00:20:43,942
too longer. It's not mode. Right. And and,

572
00:20:44,634 --> 00:20:45,906
you know, So, yeah, it did just be...

573
00:20:46,065 --> 00:20:47,973
He it started to change him who he

574
00:20:47,973 --> 00:20:49,347
was. His personality

575
00:20:49,801 --> 00:20:50,778
was just not

576
00:20:51,089 --> 00:20:51,589
the

577
00:20:52,608 --> 00:20:53,108
loving,

578
00:20:53,487 --> 00:20:55,026
you know, caring person

579
00:20:55,724 --> 00:20:56,224
that

580
00:20:57,003 --> 00:20:59,081
I met and fell in love with.

581
00:21:00,694 --> 00:21:02,927
But You've Yeah. You've you've still got this

582
00:21:02,927 --> 00:21:04,602
stressful career thing going on.

583
00:21:06,516 --> 00:21:08,271
You know, when you talk about it now,

584
00:21:08,670 --> 00:21:10,127
you've got a lot of clarity

585
00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:14,266
And that's that's great. That's really important for

586
00:21:14,266 --> 00:21:14,766
you

587
00:21:15,542 --> 00:21:17,854
as you work through all this stuff that

588
00:21:17,854 --> 00:21:19,785
you've gotta work through. But at the time,

589
00:21:19,945 --> 00:21:21,384
did you have this level of clear... Like,

590
00:21:21,545 --> 00:21:23,545
did... Should you say this is the alcohol

591
00:21:23,545 --> 00:21:26,205
that's changing my husband? Or did you wonder

592
00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:28,425
Is it the stress? Is it the alcohol?

593
00:21:28,584 --> 00:21:30,410
Is it the business? Is it is he

594
00:21:30,410 --> 00:21:32,475
growing older? Like, did you did you understand

595
00:21:32,475 --> 00:21:33,587
what was happening in the moment?

596
00:21:36,701 --> 00:21:39,250
I really think I did because that was

597
00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:40,068
the change

598
00:21:40,524 --> 00:21:41,024
that,

599
00:21:43,391 --> 00:21:44,130
and and

600
00:21:45,158 --> 00:21:46,833
you know, there there was a point where

601
00:21:46,833 --> 00:21:47,492
you could

602
00:21:48,907 --> 00:21:50,502
see it in him. You could... Like, it

603
00:21:50,502 --> 00:21:51,937
was like a switch when he... When it

604
00:21:51,937 --> 00:21:53,373
was drinking for. I mean I... There was

605
00:21:53,373 --> 00:21:55,382
a time where I count. And I knew

606
00:21:55,382 --> 00:21:57,375
how much. But after a while, I could

607
00:21:57,375 --> 00:21:59,528
tell by the behavior, what beer he said.

608
00:21:59,926 --> 00:22:01,362
Or at least if he was over this

609
00:22:01,362 --> 00:22:01,680
many,

610
00:22:03,847 --> 00:22:06,472
So it it I I know there was

611
00:22:06,472 --> 00:22:06,972
stress

612
00:22:08,143 --> 00:22:10,449
in the business, and that's kind of 1

613
00:22:10,449 --> 00:22:11,665
of 1 of the things

614
00:22:12,214 --> 00:22:13,726
because there's always you no, would you ever

615
00:22:13,726 --> 00:22:15,477
think about why I drink that I heard

616
00:22:15,477 --> 00:22:17,467
that a lot. Sure. Have you ever asked

617
00:22:17,467 --> 00:22:19,298
yourself why it is I drink and it

618
00:22:19,298 --> 00:22:20,037
was partially,

619
00:22:20,651 --> 00:22:23,700
you know, because I've changed as, you know,

620
00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:24,440
I'm

621
00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:27,299
not a, I guess, a 24 year old

622
00:22:27,299 --> 00:22:28,099
girl anymore.

623
00:22:29,873 --> 00:22:32,266
And and they also, you know, we blame

624
00:22:32,266 --> 00:22:34,180
did blame a lot on the business stress,

625
00:22:34,738 --> 00:22:37,051
and being responsible had when we had employees

626
00:22:37,051 --> 00:22:38,965
was being responsible for other people.

627
00:22:39,617 --> 00:22:41,366
And and have you ever considered that. Well,

628
00:22:41,445 --> 00:22:43,830
yeah. Kind of since I'm I'm in this

629
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:46,055
with you too, you know, but but I

630
00:22:46,055 --> 00:22:47,645
think he claimed a lot of that stress

631
00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:49,893
was was almost like it was only his

632
00:22:49,893 --> 00:22:52,050
stress, not Not us as a team.

633
00:22:52,849 --> 00:22:53,349
So

634
00:22:54,287 --> 00:22:54,527
but,

635
00:22:55,166 --> 00:22:57,098
I just wanna point out, Late. You mentioned,

636
00:22:57,178 --> 00:22:59,573
like, he was displeased with your lawn service.

637
00:22:59,812 --> 00:23:02,207
He had fired several people because they wouldn't

638
00:23:02,207 --> 00:23:03,564
do the lawn right. He was getting g

639
00:23:03,564 --> 00:23:05,001
you with the kids. When you knew when

640
00:23:05,001 --> 00:23:07,325
you met him that he was this big

641
00:23:07,325 --> 00:23:09,949
soft, and he really did probably care about

642
00:23:09,949 --> 00:23:12,095
these young ladies that you worked with in

643
00:23:12,095 --> 00:23:14,082
this group home. So you saw all these

644
00:23:14,082 --> 00:23:16,167
changes. And I feel like it can be

645
00:23:16,167 --> 00:23:18,819
so easily dismissed and thrown back on

646
00:23:19,276 --> 00:23:20,153
the partner,

647
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:23,342
when you see it's the alcohol, You see

648
00:23:23,342 --> 00:23:23,900
the changes.

649
00:23:24,313 --> 00:23:26,298
And but they're so small. And when people

650
00:23:26,298 --> 00:23:29,235
are, like, you know, arguing to keep alcohol

651
00:23:29,235 --> 00:23:31,379
in their life, and then they throw it

652
00:23:31,379 --> 00:23:34,097
back on the partner, what, you've change because

653
00:23:34,097 --> 00:23:35,851
now you're a ag, you don't, you know,

654
00:23:36,887 --> 00:23:38,025
it's hard for

655
00:23:38,402 --> 00:23:40,475
you in that situation a lot of times

656
00:23:40,475 --> 00:23:41,272
to see that.

657
00:23:42,244 --> 00:23:43,996
And to kind of break through that gas

658
00:23:43,996 --> 00:23:45,987
lighting. Yeah. And that's why when people will

659
00:23:45,987 --> 00:23:46,487
ask

660
00:23:47,421 --> 00:23:49,572
Matt and myself, like, well, how do you

661
00:23:49,572 --> 00:23:52,695
know if alcohol is a real problem.

662
00:23:53,093 --> 00:23:55,326
And and you were mentioning, like, you guys

663
00:23:55,326 --> 00:23:56,761
agreed on a lot of the big stuff,

664
00:23:57,001 --> 00:23:58,516
but it was, like the little stuff and

665
00:23:58,516 --> 00:24:00,031
the day to day stuff and those day

666
00:24:00,031 --> 00:24:02,531
to day actions and interactions with

667
00:24:03,063 --> 00:24:03,959
the family.

668
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:07,188
Like, those are the things that they may

669
00:24:07,188 --> 00:24:09,907
not you know, be big important stuff, but

670
00:24:09,907 --> 00:24:13,091
they're breaking down the the foundation of the

671
00:24:13,091 --> 00:24:13,489
family.

672
00:24:14,125 --> 00:24:17,481
So alcohol is directly influencing that. And I

673
00:24:17,481 --> 00:24:18,672
just wanna point that out because I think

674
00:24:18,672 --> 00:24:20,100
that a lot of people dismiss that. Like,

675
00:24:20,259 --> 00:24:21,925
well, it's not so bad. It's not so

676
00:24:21,925 --> 00:24:23,829
bad. It doesn't have to be major bad.

677
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,477
But, I mean, if it's breaking up, you

678
00:24:26,477 --> 00:24:29,354
know, foundational pieces of your relationship and the

679
00:24:29,354 --> 00:24:31,692
family. And you see that they're so particular

680
00:24:31,751 --> 00:24:32,950
that nothing can please them.

681
00:24:33,604 --> 00:24:36,256
And that's that. Well, maybe a step. Part

682
00:24:36,313 --> 00:24:37,827
she said a part you said about,

683
00:24:38,545 --> 00:24:40,218
not being as good with the kids. Yeah

684
00:24:40,378 --> 00:24:41,117
I mean, that's

685
00:24:41,508 --> 00:24:44,213
That's gotta be just heartbreaking for you. Mh.

686
00:24:44,849 --> 00:24:45,963
I'm just think that... I just don't know.

687
00:24:46,122 --> 00:24:47,236
I just wanna point that out if you're,

688
00:24:47,315 --> 00:24:50,042
like, so many people can easily dismiss and

689
00:24:50,194 --> 00:24:52,342
and and then it gets gas lit back

690
00:24:52,342 --> 00:24:53,614
us. Well what's the stress of the business.

691
00:24:53,853 --> 00:24:55,762
Well, everything is stressful if you really let

692
00:24:55,762 --> 00:24:56,796
it get stressful.

693
00:24:57,288 --> 00:24:59,193
And and again, he was asking, will you

694
00:24:59,193 --> 00:25:00,939
do wanna know why I drink? No. Tell

695
00:25:00,939 --> 00:25:03,638
me, please share and open up because so

696
00:25:03,638 --> 00:25:05,805
many of the alcoholic or

697
00:25:06,194 --> 00:25:09,406
they... Or addicts. They just, you know, medicate

698
00:25:09,464 --> 00:25:11,538
away their pain and stress and they don't

699
00:25:11,538 --> 00:25:12,654
wanna open up and talk.

700
00:25:13,452 --> 00:25:13,952
So

701
00:25:14,728 --> 00:25:15,228
that's

702
00:25:16,099 --> 00:25:18,881
That's just a sucky situation. Did... Did Scott

703
00:25:18,881 --> 00:25:20,788
say what I would say a lot to

704
00:25:20,947 --> 00:25:22,083
Sherry, which is,

705
00:25:22,616 --> 00:25:24,524
you know, you said that he said you

706
00:25:24,524 --> 00:25:24,842
changed.

707
00:25:25,414 --> 00:25:26,848
I would tell Sherry, you know, used to

708
00:25:26,848 --> 00:25:28,044
drink with me, and you don't drink as

709
00:25:28,044 --> 00:25:30,675
much anymore. So I'm not... You know, my

710
00:25:30,675 --> 00:25:32,588
drinking hasn't changed. My drinking. I've always been

711
00:25:32,588 --> 00:25:33,226
a big drinker.

712
00:25:33,718 --> 00:25:36,416
And you're the 1 who who has pulled

713
00:25:36,416 --> 00:25:39,431
away and stopped. Did did you feel pressure

714
00:25:39,431 --> 00:25:39,907
like that?

715
00:25:43,748 --> 00:25:45,185
There was a little bit of that, like,

716
00:25:45,584 --> 00:25:45,664
like,

717
00:25:46,782 --> 00:25:49,017
used to... You used to drink too. We'd

718
00:25:49,017 --> 00:25:50,156
have fun together

719
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:53,185
Yeah. And... But, you know, there just came

720
00:25:53,185 --> 00:25:55,902
a point where it wasn't fun anymore because...

721
00:25:57,260 --> 00:25:57,420
Yeah.

722
00:25:58,074 --> 00:26:00,059
You know, it wasn't my goal to drink

723
00:26:00,059 --> 00:26:01,648
until I passed out, which seemed to be

724
00:26:01,648 --> 00:26:03,021
your goal. And

725
00:26:03,633 --> 00:26:05,619
so so, yeah. I did hear some of

726
00:26:05,619 --> 00:26:07,579
that, but we didn't, you know, it does

727
00:26:07,778 --> 00:26:08,756
he couldn't quite

728
00:26:09,212 --> 00:26:10,428
do that because

729
00:26:10,884 --> 00:26:13,272
we didn't start out as big drinkers at

730
00:26:13,272 --> 00:26:14,308
either 1 of us.

731
00:26:16,471 --> 00:26:16,971
But

732
00:26:17,742 --> 00:26:20,545
how how did the relationship change

733
00:26:21,077 --> 00:26:22,371
with the kids? You

734
00:26:22,744 --> 00:26:24,571
mentioned that he wasn't as good to the

735
00:26:24,571 --> 00:26:25,071
kids

736
00:26:25,619 --> 00:26:28,008
but were were you worried about the kids?

737
00:26:29,761 --> 00:26:30,796
Yes. I was.

738
00:26:31,433 --> 00:26:33,106
I mean, it I mean, I mean, when

739
00:26:33,106 --> 00:26:35,275
they were little, he was great. And y

740
00:26:35,275 --> 00:26:35,595
they would...

741
00:26:36,234 --> 00:26:36,894
He would

742
00:26:37,674 --> 00:26:38,174
after

743
00:26:38,554 --> 00:26:40,394
they get home from school and he'd come

744
00:26:40,394 --> 00:26:42,315
out and wrestle on the floor with them

745
00:26:42,315 --> 00:26:42,815
and

746
00:26:43,194 --> 00:26:43,694
just

747
00:26:44,486 --> 00:26:46,235
playing out in the yard and doing all

748
00:26:46,235 --> 00:26:48,246
this stuff, but he just kinda stopped

749
00:26:48,779 --> 00:26:50,688
doing anything with him and it was any...

750
00:26:50,846 --> 00:26:52,755
Any... And it was like... Nothing they did

751
00:26:52,755 --> 00:26:55,336
was ever good enough. Too, which was really

752
00:26:55,392 --> 00:26:56,687
worrisome for me

753
00:26:57,458 --> 00:26:58,570
for their self esteem,

754
00:26:59,444 --> 00:27:02,169
because you want your parents to think you're

755
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,420
good at things and and

756
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,559
not a loser, I guess. But, yeah, I

757
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:08,079
think he just... It just was...

758
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,119
And they're good kids, and I and I

759
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,530
would I would defend... Jump in to defend

760
00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:15,287
them, and then it was. You always take

761
00:27:15,287 --> 00:27:16,085
their side. Well.

762
00:27:17,841 --> 00:27:19,039
I guess because you're wrong.

763
00:27:19,917 --> 00:27:20,417
So

764
00:27:22,163 --> 00:27:24,152
because he just... You know, I say, like,

765
00:27:24,231 --> 00:27:24,708
with the...

766
00:27:25,345 --> 00:27:27,095
Even with... Because that was when 1 of

767
00:27:27,095 --> 00:27:30,213
the things was the voice started taking over

768
00:27:30,213 --> 00:27:31,589
mowing the lawn because

769
00:27:32,283 --> 00:27:35,467
nobody would you couldn't get service to stay

770
00:27:35,467 --> 00:27:37,864
because of how picky he was. So I

771
00:27:37,864 --> 00:27:39,927
don't make you guys fine. They're doing good.

772
00:27:40,085 --> 00:27:40,585
They're

773
00:27:41,276 --> 00:27:42,966
there. They're good kids. So

774
00:27:44,624 --> 00:27:46,622
So, of course, I defended them, and that...

775
00:27:46,861 --> 00:27:48,240
But then that became a

776
00:27:48,779 --> 00:27:50,217
point of contention too.

777
00:27:51,175 --> 00:27:51,675
So

778
00:27:52,308 --> 00:27:54,776
did the kids grow closer to you over

779
00:27:54,776 --> 00:27:57,005
this time? Like, did... Were you there shield?

780
00:27:57,164 --> 00:27:58,142
Did they kinda

781
00:27:58,597 --> 00:27:59,711
yeah and help to you?

782
00:28:00,363 --> 00:28:02,347
Yes. Especially... It might... Well my in the

783
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:04,117
the boys were older, so they kinda

784
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:06,418
went just... I mean, they were probably

785
00:28:07,108 --> 00:28:09,669
going on teenagers when when it started to

786
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:11,109
get really bad. So they would just go

787
00:28:11,109 --> 00:28:13,269
away, you know, And the boys would just

788
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:13,990
hang together.

789
00:28:15,589 --> 00:28:17,120
But they were you know, this go in

790
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:18,549
their room or at a different part of

791
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:20,003
the house that was

792
00:28:20,774 --> 00:28:23,157
not occupied by him. But my daughter really,

793
00:28:25,878 --> 00:28:27,557
well, she had trouble with, you know, not

794
00:28:27,557 --> 00:28:28,536
having consistency

795
00:28:29,155 --> 00:28:31,952
in the first place. So it really really

796
00:28:31,952 --> 00:28:34,110
bothered her and she would... Yeah. I was

797
00:28:34,110 --> 00:28:34,610
her

798
00:28:35,004 --> 00:28:35,744
her rock

799
00:28:36,122 --> 00:28:36,622
and

800
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,996
he would all complain. She doesn't listen to

801
00:28:38,996 --> 00:28:41,231
me. I'm like, well, sometimes you're nonsensical.

802
00:28:42,109 --> 00:28:42,987
You, you know,

803
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:46,354
It's hard to tell her... Yeah. She has

804
00:28:46,354 --> 00:28:48,450
to listen to ed when sometimes she's ranting

805
00:28:48,509 --> 00:28:48,748
about.

806
00:28:49,386 --> 00:28:51,562
I don't know. Stupid stuff. So

807
00:28:52,354 --> 00:28:54,190
Yeah. So she and she kinda I'm sure

808
00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:56,105
she could tell, you know, when it was

809
00:28:56,105 --> 00:28:57,382
he was too far gone, and she would

810
00:28:57,382 --> 00:28:58,100
just tell him no.

811
00:28:59,297 --> 00:28:59,797
And

812
00:29:00,429 --> 00:29:02,661
and it kinda carried on in other areas

813
00:29:02,661 --> 00:29:04,335
too where she probably should have been listening

814
00:29:04,335 --> 00:29:06,726
to him, but he like I said if

815
00:29:06,726 --> 00:29:07,863
it's not consistent

816
00:29:08,493 --> 00:29:10,080
Yeah. You can't really blame her. So...

817
00:29:10,874 --> 00:29:11,588
Oh, yeah.

818
00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:14,365
Did it did it get to the point

819
00:29:14,365 --> 00:29:17,791
where you started thinking about whether it was

820
00:29:17,791 --> 00:29:20,488
best to stay and keep keep going down

821
00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:21,702
this path or whether

822
00:29:22,867 --> 00:29:25,184
you know, leaving or divorce might be in

823
00:29:25,184 --> 00:29:27,497
your future? Did did you entertain those thoughts?

824
00:29:28,534 --> 00:29:30,549
Yeah. I think everybody that's in

825
00:29:30,927 --> 00:29:33,559
the situation and at least entertain those thoughts.

826
00:29:35,169 --> 00:29:36,127
It didn't seem...

827
00:29:37,085 --> 00:29:38,920
I I didn't wanna give up. I didn't...

828
00:29:39,399 --> 00:29:42,612
I wanted it to work and and

829
00:29:43,961 --> 00:29:44,461
he

830
00:29:44,917 --> 00:29:46,828
it was... When things did start to kinda

831
00:29:46,828 --> 00:29:47,328
get

832
00:29:47,703 --> 00:29:49,057
bad and bad and bad, then it would

833
00:29:49,057 --> 00:29:50,808
be... Okay. I'll quit now, and he would

834
00:29:50,808 --> 00:29:51,286
make a attempts.

835
00:29:52,338 --> 00:29:53,398
But it was never

836
00:29:53,936 --> 00:29:55,475
he never wanted to,

837
00:29:56,174 --> 00:29:58,730
like, get professional help and, actually, I... There...

838
00:29:58,890 --> 00:29:59,345
Well

839
00:29:59,784 --> 00:30:02,341
somewhat. I mean, he went to to... Through

840
00:30:02,341 --> 00:30:04,419
medical detox where he would at least get

841
00:30:04,419 --> 00:30:06,657
help for... But, you know, it might be

842
00:30:06,657 --> 00:30:08,356
just a couple days. And then

843
00:30:09,944 --> 00:30:11,557
he's coming home and it's

844
00:30:13,602 --> 00:30:14,102
hallucinations

845
00:30:14,715 --> 00:30:15,215
and

846
00:30:16,544 --> 00:30:18,396
just scary times. So

847
00:30:19,983 --> 00:30:20,483
but

848
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:25,258
so especially but those times, I was even

849
00:30:25,258 --> 00:30:26,856
more afraid for the kids too,

850
00:30:28,788 --> 00:30:30,941
just because of what they were seeing, which

851
00:30:30,941 --> 00:30:32,616
was scaring me, so I'm sure they were

852
00:30:32,616 --> 00:30:33,116
terrified.

853
00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:36,124
And... But, like, III wanted it to work.

854
00:30:36,283 --> 00:30:37,182
I wanted to

855
00:30:38,130 --> 00:30:39,085
to stay better,

856
00:30:40,278 --> 00:30:40,936
but it

857
00:30:41,311 --> 00:30:42,504
just never got there.

858
00:30:43,697 --> 00:30:46,401
Did it become a predictable cycle? Like, if

859
00:30:46,401 --> 00:30:47,688
you would go to detox docs.

860
00:30:48,801 --> 00:30:50,392
I'm sure there was some relief for you

861
00:30:50,392 --> 00:30:51,982
during the couple of days while he was

862
00:30:51,982 --> 00:30:53,516
gone. But then,

863
00:30:54,049 --> 00:30:56,515
I mean, did... How did you balance hope

864
00:30:56,515 --> 00:30:57,015
with

865
00:30:57,564 --> 00:30:59,717
with pessimism because you've seen it before, Did

866
00:30:59,717 --> 00:31:02,030
you... When he would come back? Did you

867
00:31:02,030 --> 00:31:03,626
think of, but, you know, maybe we'll have

868
00:31:03,626 --> 00:31:05,061
a few days or a few weeks, and

869
00:31:05,061 --> 00:31:06,337
then it's gonna... We're gonna be off the

870
00:31:06,337 --> 00:31:07,549
rails again. Does that feel night.

871
00:31:08,825 --> 00:31:11,138
It it the the first time was really

872
00:31:11,138 --> 00:31:12,117
bad, and

873
00:31:13,292 --> 00:31:14,967
because that was, like 2 days Day detox,

874
00:31:15,126 --> 00:31:16,562
I think he made maybe a week or

875
00:31:16,562 --> 00:31:18,972
10 days. After he was out, and that

876
00:31:18,972 --> 00:31:19,372
was it.

877
00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:21,789
And then

878
00:31:22,568 --> 00:31:24,965
I think the the... At kind of the

879
00:31:24,965 --> 00:31:26,655
next time. I would... I said I'm... You

880
00:31:26,655 --> 00:31:27,713
can't come back

881
00:31:29,048 --> 00:31:31,600
here unless it's been a longer time and

882
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,355
that he stayed in the hospital 5 days

883
00:31:33,355 --> 00:31:34,971
that time. And then

884
00:31:35,999 --> 00:31:38,465
he went or 6 months that time.

885
00:31:40,533 --> 00:31:41,033
So

886
00:31:43,569 --> 00:31:45,793
that... And that was great. It was...

887
00:31:46,508 --> 00:31:47,144
I thought,

888
00:31:48,891 --> 00:31:50,718
we were on the track to get better.

889
00:31:51,036 --> 00:31:51,536
And

890
00:31:53,444 --> 00:31:55,204
but it was just white knuckle sobriety. It

891
00:31:55,204 --> 00:31:55,704
wasn't

892
00:31:56,644 --> 00:31:58,325
even even just that, though it was still

893
00:31:58,325 --> 00:32:00,244
better because at least he wasn't going off

894
00:32:00,244 --> 00:32:01,259
our ranch and

895
00:32:02,095 --> 00:32:04,642
You, he was more present for me and

896
00:32:04,642 --> 00:32:05,040
the kids,

897
00:32:06,791 --> 00:32:09,831
but it was still not. Right, which I

898
00:32:09,831 --> 00:32:11,425
didn't expect it to be right right away.

899
00:32:11,744 --> 00:32:13,259
But at... But when he started, you know,

900
00:32:14,295 --> 00:32:16,287
I don't know, maybe 3 months in, started

901
00:32:16,287 --> 00:32:19,564
talking about Oh, 0, eventually, I'll be able

902
00:32:19,564 --> 00:32:20,462
to have a beer

903
00:32:20,836 --> 00:32:22,983
to grill out or have a beer on

904
00:32:22,983 --> 00:32:25,789
the weekends, or but it won't be like

905
00:32:25,925 --> 00:32:26,163
before.

906
00:32:27,132 --> 00:32:29,757
And as we all know that never works

907
00:32:29,757 --> 00:32:29,996
out.

908
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:33,041
Yeah. So at 6 months, yeah, he

909
00:32:33,575 --> 00:32:34,950
just... It was within

910
00:32:35,578 --> 00:32:37,647
probably within 2 weeks, it was right back

911
00:32:37,647 --> 00:32:38,147
to

912
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,749
just as bad if not worse than it

913
00:32:40,749 --> 00:32:41,624
had been before.

914
00:32:42,994 --> 00:32:43,314
So...

915
00:32:43,953 --> 00:32:47,149
Did... So you you said... Other than the

916
00:32:47,149 --> 00:32:48,588
professional help that he would get with detox.

917
00:32:48,827 --> 00:32:50,586
He didn't really have a program, No aa,

918
00:32:50,825 --> 00:32:51,065
no.

919
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,720
No, rehab facility.

920
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,240
Did he talk to you about what early

921
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,240
sobriety was like during that 6 months? Did

922
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,569
you talk about? The struggles or anything like

923
00:33:01,569 --> 00:33:03,323
that? Or was he pretty quite quite good?

924
00:33:03,722 --> 00:33:07,070
He... Yeah. He was pretty just stuck to

925
00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:07,309
himself,

926
00:33:10,198 --> 00:33:12,116
he kinda took took back up some of

927
00:33:12,116 --> 00:33:14,593
of his hobbies that, you know, he had

928
00:33:14,593 --> 00:33:15,552
stopped doing,

929
00:33:16,591 --> 00:33:18,290
because he's was really into plants and

930
00:33:19,961 --> 00:33:21,398
started kinda doing some of that stuff, but

931
00:33:21,398 --> 00:33:22,914
he didn't... He was just quiet. He didn't

932
00:33:22,914 --> 00:33:24,510
really talk to me about it. No. Yeah.

933
00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:26,186
He he would tell me it's not a

934
00:33:26,186 --> 00:33:26,506
big deal.

935
00:33:27,717 --> 00:33:27,876
Yeah.

936
00:33:28,753 --> 00:33:29,948
You know, it's it's not a big deal.

937
00:33:30,108 --> 00:33:30,666
I can do this.

938
00:33:31,383 --> 00:33:34,172
And I used to drink. I'm sober. Just

939
00:33:34,172 --> 00:33:34,672
kinda

940
00:33:35,223 --> 00:33:37,215
That's it. Yep. What it is. Yep. Boy

941
00:33:37,215 --> 00:33:38,330
that I do that a lot.

942
00:33:40,402 --> 00:33:41,938
I really would have liked to have

943
00:33:42,409 --> 00:33:44,324
Known, Scott, I think we had a lot

944
00:33:44,324 --> 00:33:44,883
in common.

945
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,436
Well, it's was probably so hard that he

946
00:33:47,436 --> 00:33:49,213
wasn't opening up to you

947
00:33:49,591 --> 00:33:51,919
about the struggles when he was even drinking

948
00:33:51,919 --> 00:33:53,355
and saying, do you even wanna into why

949
00:33:53,355 --> 00:33:55,189
drink because you were talking about how you

950
00:33:55,189 --> 00:33:56,705
guys would go away for 2 weeks in

951
00:33:56,705 --> 00:33:58,220
the boundary waters in camp, and you had

952
00:33:58,220 --> 00:34:00,868
all these deep long conversations I know there

953
00:34:00,868 --> 00:34:03,106
was a writing that you shared with our

954
00:34:03,106 --> 00:34:03,606
group

955
00:34:04,384 --> 00:34:04,884
that

956
00:34:05,263 --> 00:34:07,840
still just touches me, but you guys had

957
00:34:08,153 --> 00:34:11,442
these really intense talks about, like, life and

958
00:34:11,499 --> 00:34:13,969
questioning the universe and things sort of like

959
00:34:13,969 --> 00:34:16,293
that. I'm sure, It's was probably really hard

960
00:34:16,293 --> 00:34:18,543
to be so shut off from him

961
00:34:19,078 --> 00:34:21,625
when the alcohol took hold and then even

962
00:34:21,625 --> 00:34:23,376
in this time of sobriety when he's white

963
00:34:23,376 --> 00:34:25,460
knuckle and you're, like, when I can be

964
00:34:25,460 --> 00:34:27,394
your partner and try to help, at least

965
00:34:27,452 --> 00:34:29,125
understand or you can get it off your

966
00:34:29,125 --> 00:34:30,957
chest. He's just still closed off.

967
00:34:31,929 --> 00:34:33,789
And again she lost very

968
00:34:34,329 --> 00:34:34,809
only.

969
00:34:35,609 --> 00:34:36,969
Yeah. I lost my best friend,

970
00:34:38,730 --> 00:34:39,449
long before,

971
00:34:41,137 --> 00:34:42,723
Long before the alcohol took,

972
00:34:43,358 --> 00:34:44,469
I lost my best friend.

973
00:34:45,896 --> 00:34:46,134
Yeah.

974
00:34:47,738 --> 00:34:50,051
Yeah. Took took him before he died for

975
00:34:50,051 --> 00:34:50,210
sure.

976
00:34:51,407 --> 00:34:51,965
Wow. Yep.

977
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,192
So what what was that, like for you?

978
00:34:57,004 --> 00:35:00,141
When we when we talk with people about,

979
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,779
you know, emotional detachment,

980
00:35:04,037 --> 00:35:06,355
sometimes people read about it or they listen

981
00:35:06,355 --> 00:35:08,354
to what attachment is on a podcast, and

982
00:35:08,354 --> 00:35:09,940
it's something that they try to implement.

983
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:11,604
For Sherry,

984
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,006
that wasn't what happened. She

985
00:35:14,393 --> 00:35:16,458
she pulled the away to protect herself to

986
00:35:16,458 --> 00:35:18,681
protect our kids and because she had tried

987
00:35:18,681 --> 00:35:20,054
everything else. And

988
00:35:20,428 --> 00:35:22,016
and it it was kind of a latched

989
00:35:22,016 --> 00:35:22,890
last ditch effort.

990
00:35:24,497 --> 00:35:27,448
Did was was that? Kinda of what happened

991
00:35:27,448 --> 00:35:29,761
for you? Did you did you set out?

992
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,234
I'm gonna intentionally detach? Because I've learned what

993
00:35:32,234 --> 00:35:33,531
this is or did

994
00:35:34,083 --> 00:35:35,121
or did it just evolve?

995
00:35:36,159 --> 00:35:38,255
No. I... Yeah. It didn't I didn't

996
00:35:38,793 --> 00:35:40,709
learn the term detachment, but I did kind

997
00:35:40,709 --> 00:35:42,545
of learn a little bit more. I...

998
00:35:43,196 --> 00:35:45,204
Started to research a little bit more

999
00:35:45,817 --> 00:35:46,793
just about

1000
00:35:47,723 --> 00:35:49,255
alcohol use disorder

1001
00:35:49,708 --> 00:35:52,194
in general and, you know, kind of

1002
00:35:52,663 --> 00:35:54,813
different things from different places like, that I

1003
00:35:54,813 --> 00:35:56,883
knew that it wasn't me. And none this

1004
00:35:56,883 --> 00:35:58,157
is my fault even though I might be

1005
00:35:58,157 --> 00:35:59,670
getting blamed with it, it's not my fault,

1006
00:36:00,228 --> 00:36:00,728
and

1007
00:36:01,198 --> 00:36:03,261
kind of once I got to that mindset,

1008
00:36:03,658 --> 00:36:05,244
I was like, I'm not taking the blame

1009
00:36:05,244 --> 00:36:06,117
for this anymore.

1010
00:36:07,149 --> 00:36:07,649
And

1011
00:36:08,593 --> 00:36:10,978
and and and that I need to protect

1012
00:36:10,978 --> 00:36:12,569
myself from that bling,

1013
00:36:13,364 --> 00:36:15,273
and that was kind of, I guess, you

1014
00:36:15,273 --> 00:36:18,079
know, the the start of my detachment was

1015
00:36:19,266 --> 00:36:21,739
I'm gonna walk away. If you're gonna talk

1016
00:36:21,739 --> 00:36:23,494
like that to me, I'm walking away.

1017
00:36:24,451 --> 00:36:25,807
If you're gonna try to start to fight

1018
00:36:25,807 --> 00:36:27,561
with me, I'm not dealing with you, we

1019
00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,804
can talk when you're over. And so that

1020
00:36:29,804 --> 00:36:30,860
was kind of how

1021
00:36:31,392 --> 00:36:31,710
my...

1022
00:36:32,505 --> 00:36:33,776
You know, I didn't know I guess that

1023
00:36:33,776 --> 00:36:34,888
it was called detachment.

1024
00:36:36,016 --> 00:36:38,563
But that was just... I'm not dealing with

1025
00:36:38,563 --> 00:36:40,870
this. I've done dealing with it, and you

1026
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:42,541
keep saying you're cutting back and you're gonna

1027
00:36:42,541 --> 00:36:45,695
stop. And nothing ever happens with it, and

1028
00:36:46,474 --> 00:36:48,235
I just not gonna take it anymore. I'm

1029
00:36:48,235 --> 00:36:50,094
not gonna take the blame. I'm not gonna

1030
00:36:50,568 --> 00:36:52,081
deal with your moods.

1031
00:36:52,638 --> 00:36:53,911
I'm just gonna go over here and do

1032
00:36:53,911 --> 00:36:56,061
my own thing, and you can do you.

1033
00:36:56,299 --> 00:36:57,732
I mean, if... And, you know, if funny

1034
00:36:57,732 --> 00:37:00,693
thing, he... You know, like, some... I'd I'd

1035
00:37:00,693 --> 00:37:03,720
started taking trips with my best friend, and

1036
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:04,914
it was funny because it was that it

1037
00:37:04,914 --> 00:37:07,199
was his idea because he was the... As

1038
00:37:07,319 --> 00:37:08,755
time went on. He became more and more

1039
00:37:08,755 --> 00:37:10,610
of a home body. He didn't wanna go

1040
00:37:10,669 --> 00:37:11,249
do anything

1041
00:37:11,865 --> 00:37:13,859
because he wanted... That was too far away

1042
00:37:13,859 --> 00:37:15,295
from the refrigerator and the beer.

1043
00:37:16,411 --> 00:37:16,911
So

1044
00:37:18,101 --> 00:37:20,413
he suggested, you know, both your friend go

1045
00:37:20,413 --> 00:37:22,805
on a vacation. And so at at first,

1046
00:37:22,964 --> 00:37:24,320
I was like, nah, I'm not gonna do

1047
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,250
that. You come with me and No. No.

1048
00:37:26,409 --> 00:37:27,690
I'm not going. You might as will go

1049
00:37:27,690 --> 00:37:28,670
with her. So

1050
00:37:29,530 --> 00:37:31,690
it was his idea. And then when we

1051
00:37:31,690 --> 00:37:32,730
started making a plan,

1052
00:37:33,224 --> 00:37:34,984
He was, like, I can't believe you're doing

1053
00:37:34,984 --> 00:37:36,125
this. Mh

1054
00:37:36,505 --> 00:37:38,184
I can't believe you're leaving me.

1055
00:37:38,824 --> 00:37:40,684
And I'm like, this is your

1056
00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:43,153
have an idea in the first place, what

1057
00:37:43,153 --> 00:37:45,226
you mean, and he's like, well, I didn't

1058
00:37:45,226 --> 00:37:46,742
know you were really gonna do it, Like,

1059
00:37:47,539 --> 00:37:48,656
okay. Well, I am.

1060
00:37:49,295 --> 00:37:49,795
And,

1061
00:37:50,172 --> 00:37:50,570
you know,

1062
00:37:51,144 --> 00:37:52,179
So, yeah,

1063
00:37:53,215 --> 00:37:55,446
It it... And it saved my sanity. It

1064
00:37:55,446 --> 00:37:56,743
really did to have

1065
00:37:57,119 --> 00:37:59,270
things to look forward to where I could

1066
00:37:59,270 --> 00:38:00,146
get a break from it.

1067
00:38:01,038 --> 00:38:02,312
Because I think that's really important.

1068
00:38:02,949 --> 00:38:03,109
Just...

1069
00:38:04,144 --> 00:38:05,896
Because I I wasn't ready to leave.

1070
00:38:06,852 --> 00:38:08,684
I didn't... I didn't wanna give up hope.

1071
00:38:10,135 --> 00:38:10,635
And

1072
00:38:11,734 --> 00:38:13,574
I had to have some kind of recharge.

1073
00:38:14,054 --> 00:38:14,295
So...

1074
00:38:15,815 --> 00:38:19,251
Yeah. I mean, it's self preservation. I mean,

1075
00:38:19,489 --> 00:38:20,837
everything that you're describing,

1076
00:38:22,423 --> 00:38:24,405
I I think you made all the right

1077
00:38:24,405 --> 00:38:24,905
moves

1078
00:38:25,293 --> 00:38:27,911
what's what's interesting about when you reach the

1079
00:38:27,911 --> 00:38:30,157
end of your open, you need that recharge

1080
00:38:30,847 --> 00:38:33,306
is you have to do it for yourself.

1081
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,793
And it sounds like that's exactly what you

1082
00:38:35,793 --> 00:38:37,468
were doing. You were doing it because you

1083
00:38:37,468 --> 00:38:37,946
needed it.

1084
00:38:38,744 --> 00:38:41,397
But kind of a as a a side

1085
00:38:41,456 --> 00:38:43,391
case from that, it can have

1086
00:38:43,704 --> 00:38:46,097
really 1 of 2 impacts on the drinker,

1087
00:38:46,575 --> 00:38:47,474
it can

1088
00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:50,723
scare us into sobriety. To what I've long

1089
00:38:50,723 --> 00:38:53,456
said is that Sherry detachment was part of

1090
00:38:53,847 --> 00:38:55,036
the pain con con,

1091
00:38:55,592 --> 00:38:57,576
that resulted in my sobriety. In addition to

1092
00:38:57,576 --> 00:38:59,107
her detachment, there was also

1093
00:38:59,797 --> 00:39:01,011
depression and anxiety

1094
00:39:01,384 --> 00:39:01,884
that

1095
00:39:02,272 --> 00:39:04,496
I finally started to understand. You know, I

1096
00:39:04,496 --> 00:39:05,076
was using

1097
00:39:05,449 --> 00:39:07,435
alcohol to medicate the depression and anxiety. So

1098
00:39:07,435 --> 00:39:09,286
it took me a long time to understand

1099
00:39:09,421 --> 00:39:11,272
that while it would alleviate

1100
00:39:11,979 --> 00:39:13,737
the depression and anxiety in the short term.

1101
00:39:13,897 --> 00:39:15,996
It was also the cause of the

1102
00:39:16,375 --> 00:39:18,692
depression and anxiety in the long term. And

1103
00:39:18,692 --> 00:39:20,951
so all these things kinda came together

1104
00:39:21,424 --> 00:39:24,061
to cause a realization for me that sobriety

1105
00:39:24,061 --> 00:39:25,099
was my only choice.

1106
00:39:26,537 --> 00:39:28,135
That isn't always how it works.

1107
00:39:28,869 --> 00:39:30,465
As you detached,

1108
00:39:30,944 --> 00:39:31,764
Did he

1109
00:39:32,461 --> 00:39:35,095
did it did the frequency with which he

1110
00:39:35,095 --> 00:39:37,250
would try periods of sobriety increase?

1111
00:39:37,824 --> 00:39:39,653
Or did he did he drink more?

1112
00:39:41,324 --> 00:39:42,517
Or did it not affect him at all?

1113
00:39:42,676 --> 00:39:45,222
Did? Did he just continue on aggression unrelated

1114
00:39:45,222 --> 00:39:46,017
to your detachment?

1115
00:39:46,987 --> 00:39:48,659
I think at first, it kind of...

1116
00:39:49,933 --> 00:39:51,446
At least it it it

1117
00:39:53,118 --> 00:39:54,312
caused him to say.

1118
00:39:55,364 --> 00:39:56,804
He was going to be cutting back.

1119
00:39:57,445 --> 00:39:59,525
I don't know that he ever really did

1120
00:39:59,525 --> 00:40:00,324
all that much.

1121
00:40:02,179 --> 00:40:03,933
But then as as time on, it seemed

1122
00:40:03,933 --> 00:40:06,723
like it was more just his an excuse

1123
00:40:06,723 --> 00:40:07,463
to isolate

1124
00:40:07,919 --> 00:40:08,397
and drink.

1125
00:40:09,753 --> 00:40:10,253
And

1126
00:40:10,803 --> 00:40:12,871
and kind of again, kind of blame shift.

1127
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:13,268
Well,

1128
00:40:14,302 --> 00:40:15,574
you're not there for me.

1129
00:40:16,131 --> 00:40:17,642
So it was it was kind of a,

1130
00:40:17,801 --> 00:40:20,027
you know, a pity party. I'm gonna drink

1131
00:40:20,027 --> 00:40:20,527
then

1132
00:40:21,078 --> 00:40:21,976
because you're not

1133
00:40:22,513 --> 00:40:24,666
paying the attention to me that I want

1134
00:40:24,666 --> 00:40:24,985
you to.

1135
00:40:26,181 --> 00:40:28,095
So, yeah. I didn't I don't I don't

1136
00:40:28,095 --> 00:40:29,393
think he had any more

1137
00:40:30,501 --> 00:40:31,001
serious

1138
00:40:32,413 --> 00:40:33,789
attempts at sobriety

1139
00:40:35,758 --> 00:40:38,227
after the, I started really detach.

1140
00:40:39,039 --> 00:40:39,360
No.

1141
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,880
Yeah. What 1 of the biggest lessons I

1142
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:43,699
had to learn

1143
00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:46,400
was that if I wasn't someone Sherry wanted

1144
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:47,039
to be around,

1145
00:40:47,773 --> 00:40:49,603
just because we're married, just because we had

1146
00:40:49,603 --> 00:40:51,989
this piece of paper that said we're bonded

1147
00:40:51,989 --> 00:40:53,898
together. Doesn't mean I can blame her the...

1148
00:40:54,057 --> 00:40:55,409
For the fact that she does wanna be

1149
00:40:55,409 --> 00:40:55,727
around me.

1150
00:40:56,459 --> 00:40:59,036
I I... And I didn't understand this in

1151
00:40:59,255 --> 00:41:01,253
active addiction or an early sobriety. This this

1152
00:41:01,253 --> 00:41:03,090
is something that took me years to understand.

1153
00:41:03,664 --> 00:41:04,164
But

1154
00:41:04,541 --> 00:41:06,216
what I needed to do in the moment

1155
00:41:06,216 --> 00:41:08,689
even though I was incapable was become a

1156
00:41:08,689 --> 00:41:10,922
person that she wanted to be around, not

1157
00:41:10,922 --> 00:41:12,358
beat her over the head with her marriage

1158
00:41:12,358 --> 00:41:14,846
license because she had agreed to be around

1159
00:41:14,846 --> 00:41:17,079
me. And I mean, that is such a

1160
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:17,579
common

1161
00:41:18,036 --> 00:41:20,452
a common thing. I'm drinking more because

1162
00:41:20,764 --> 00:41:22,273
you're not hanging out with me or because

1163
00:41:22,273 --> 00:41:24,100
you're not having sex with me or because

1164
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:25,133
you're not nice to me.

1165
00:41:26,245 --> 00:41:28,246
Well, the be a person that it would

1166
00:41:28,246 --> 00:41:30,228
be good to be nice to, and

1167
00:41:30,783 --> 00:41:33,162
and and that'll come, you know, that... You'll

1168
00:41:33,162 --> 00:41:34,669
get what you want if you deserve it,

1169
00:41:34,828 --> 00:41:35,304
basically.

1170
00:41:35,954 --> 00:41:36,454
And

1171
00:41:37,387 --> 00:41:39,299
you know, we... That that is an elusive

1172
00:41:39,299 --> 00:41:39,799
concept

1173
00:41:40,175 --> 00:41:42,348
to us alcoholic certainly during

1174
00:41:43,362 --> 00:41:44,637
and even early this society.

1175
00:41:45,368 --> 00:41:46,878
Makes too much sense. Yeah.

1176
00:41:47,513 --> 00:41:47,831
Yeah.

1177
00:41:48,546 --> 00:41:49,340
It really does.

1178
00:41:50,691 --> 00:41:52,065
Okay. Can you

1179
00:41:52,774 --> 00:41:55,890
walk us through the end as the progression

1180
00:41:55,890 --> 00:41:56,849
continued and

1181
00:41:57,568 --> 00:41:58,686
and his alcohol took him.

1182
00:42:01,019 --> 00:42:01,260
Well,

1183
00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:04,000
got it's

1184
00:42:05,739 --> 00:42:05,980
stop.

1185
00:42:06,940 --> 00:42:08,140
Sorry. It is thunder here.

1186
00:42:09,273 --> 00:42:10,632
Something barking at thunder.

1187
00:42:14,387 --> 00:42:14,547
Yeah.

1188
00:42:16,557 --> 00:42:17,827
It seemed like it went I was for

1189
00:42:17,827 --> 00:42:19,256
a really long time because I mean,

1190
00:42:20,367 --> 00:42:21,344
he was

1191
00:42:22,035 --> 00:42:23,702
lost a lot, a lot a lot of

1192
00:42:23,702 --> 00:42:23,940
weight.

1193
00:42:25,941 --> 00:42:26,441
He

1194
00:42:27,055 --> 00:42:28,668
really didn't eat

1195
00:42:29,362 --> 00:42:29,600
anymore,

1196
00:42:30,714 --> 00:42:31,828
and that was, you know, was,

1197
00:42:32,464 --> 00:42:34,078
and again, kind of

1198
00:42:34,389 --> 00:42:36,010
part of my detachment was

1199
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:38,389
I'm gonna cook, but we're gonna eat. And

1200
00:42:38,389 --> 00:42:39,829
if you eat u eat, and if you

1201
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:41,909
don't, you don't. And I, you know, or

1202
00:42:41,909 --> 00:42:44,315
if you're passed out, at meal times. I'll

1203
00:42:44,315 --> 00:42:45,821
try to wake you up, but I... You

1204
00:42:45,821 --> 00:42:47,327
know, what am I supposed to do here,

1205
00:42:47,407 --> 00:42:48,992
you know, put ice cubes down your back.

1206
00:42:49,626 --> 00:42:50,657
Even then I don't know if you were

1207
00:42:50,657 --> 00:42:53,403
to up. But, but, yeah. So... And

1208
00:42:54,020 --> 00:42:54,520
I

1209
00:42:55,855 --> 00:42:57,689
he blamed on, you know, I have stomach

1210
00:42:57,689 --> 00:42:59,284
issues and all this and that, but it

1211
00:42:59,284 --> 00:43:00,742
was just... I think his

1212
00:43:01,373 --> 00:43:02,510
his alcohol

1213
00:43:02,966 --> 00:43:06,152
increased, and his body couldn't even handle the

1214
00:43:06,152 --> 00:43:08,039
food. I mean, he... If he did eat

1215
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,960
there was times where he couldn't keep things

1216
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:11,280
down.

1217
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,440
So I think a lot of it was

1218
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,640
he would just avoid it because he knew

1219
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,019
he wasn't gonna be able to

1220
00:43:16,893 --> 00:43:18,510
digest it anyway, because his

1221
00:43:19,206 --> 00:43:21,519
body was kind of rejecting anything except, you

1222
00:43:21,519 --> 00:43:23,274
know, he was able to drink the beer

1223
00:43:23,274 --> 00:43:25,028
and not not throw that up, but anything

1224
00:43:25,028 --> 00:43:26,166
else was kind of

1225
00:43:28,068 --> 00:43:29,681
not not capable

1226
00:43:30,293 --> 00:43:32,042
processing for whatever reason.

1227
00:43:32,598 --> 00:43:33,710
And the man never went to the doctor.

1228
00:43:33,869 --> 00:43:35,085
So I really don't know

1229
00:43:35,871 --> 00:43:37,642
you know, what that meant

1230
00:43:38,175 --> 00:43:40,081
as far as medically, but I could just

1231
00:43:40,081 --> 00:43:41,853
see it happen, I mean, he was

1232
00:43:43,038 --> 00:43:44,495
it it it seems

1233
00:43:45,032 --> 00:43:47,505
as a non medical professional. It seems pretty

1234
00:43:47,505 --> 00:43:48,483
clear that the

1235
00:43:48,860 --> 00:43:49,658
the alcohol,

1236
00:43:50,296 --> 00:43:52,391
he was drinking his calories and that the

1237
00:43:53,103 --> 00:43:55,657
the digestive issues that he had were caused

1238
00:43:55,657 --> 00:43:57,651
by the alcohol? But could he see that

1239
00:43:57,651 --> 00:43:59,567
at all or were they 2 separate things

1240
00:43:59,567 --> 00:43:59,886
to him?

1241
00:44:00,618 --> 00:44:03,155
No. Separate because he always had like, acid

1242
00:44:03,155 --> 00:44:05,295
reflux ge, you know, issues so he would

1243
00:44:05,295 --> 00:44:06,643
just blame it on that at his stomach.

1244
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:07,856
It was never

1245
00:44:08,482 --> 00:44:10,069
No. It was never because of the alcohol

1246
00:44:10,148 --> 00:44:11,521
It was a pre preexisting

1247
00:44:11,894 --> 00:44:14,617
condition, you know, Before alcohol. So no

1248
00:44:14,990 --> 00:44:15,490
of

1249
00:44:15,879 --> 00:44:19,869
of Cognitive dissonance. It's amazing. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

1250
00:44:20,109 --> 00:44:22,822
So... But, yeah... So he... His health kept.

1251
00:44:23,062 --> 00:44:23,961
I mean, he was

1252
00:44:24,274 --> 00:44:26,351
just getting frail almost almost. So he was

1253
00:44:26,351 --> 00:44:28,828
probably... I think the last time, I knew

1254
00:44:28,828 --> 00:44:31,325
how much he weighed. He normal. He's 05:10

1255
00:44:32,115 --> 00:44:34,445
like, probably 1 8... Between 1 80 and

1256
00:44:34,740 --> 00:44:35,933
1 90 was in the kind of a

1257
00:44:35,933 --> 00:44:39,114
normal weight for him, and he was 01:51

1258
00:44:39,114 --> 00:44:39,614
40

1259
00:44:40,084 --> 00:44:41,040
the last time I knew.

1260
00:44:42,235 --> 00:44:42,735
So

1261
00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:45,422
just kind of wasting the wasting away.

1262
00:44:47,348 --> 00:44:47,848
And

1263
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:50,134
so, you know, that kind of, like I

1264
00:44:50,134 --> 00:44:52,601
said, seemed like over maybe a year or

1265
00:44:52,601 --> 00:44:54,590
2 even where it kept getting worse and

1266
00:44:54,590 --> 00:44:55,227
worse and worse.

1267
00:44:58,269 --> 00:44:58,929
And then

1268
00:45:02,417 --> 00:45:03,853
like I said, he never would go to

1269
00:45:03,853 --> 00:45:05,847
a doctor, so I I don't really know

1270
00:45:05,847 --> 00:45:08,723
exactly all those going out him. But Know,

1271
00:45:08,961 --> 00:45:10,572
I can kinda go to the last,

1272
00:45:11,422 --> 00:45:12,215
last weekend,

1273
00:45:13,406 --> 00:45:15,073
because he he would kind of, like, when

1274
00:45:15,073 --> 00:45:17,802
he when he was getting sick and sometimes

1275
00:45:17,802 --> 00:45:20,460
that would kind of make him go into

1276
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:22,218
the D too because

1277
00:45:22,757 --> 00:45:24,355
there was times where he couldn't even keep.

1278
00:45:24,849 --> 00:45:26,449
You know, the beer down, and then it

1279
00:45:26,449 --> 00:45:28,150
would kinda send him into withdrawals

1280
00:45:28,609 --> 00:45:30,849
and that, you know, it it 1 of

1281
00:45:30,849 --> 00:45:33,010
the withdrawal symptoms is throwing up. So it

1282
00:45:33,010 --> 00:45:34,309
just, like, he couldn't

1283
00:45:35,418 --> 00:45:37,482
he couldn't manage that, you know,

1284
00:45:38,117 --> 00:45:38,856
with the

1285
00:45:39,467 --> 00:45:40,817
with issues he was having.

1286
00:45:41,929 --> 00:45:44,168
So there it was a... I think, it

1287
00:45:44,168 --> 00:45:45,942
was a Sunday when he was

1288
00:45:46,954 --> 00:45:48,785
sick, and he... It was always the flu,

1289
00:45:48,944 --> 00:45:50,297
so I don't know if it really was

1290
00:45:50,297 --> 00:45:52,543
the flu or if it was something else,

1291
00:45:52,703 --> 00:45:54,299
But in any case, he was he's was

1292
00:45:54,299 --> 00:45:55,098
not doing well,

1293
00:45:57,014 --> 00:45:57,514
and

1294
00:45:58,850 --> 00:46:00,947
it was kinda nursing him all day Sunday,

1295
00:46:01,579 --> 00:46:04,052
and into Sunday night and overnight, I might

1296
00:46:04,052 --> 00:46:05,886
have slept an hour or 2. Just trying

1297
00:46:05,886 --> 00:46:07,402
to... Because he was I'm steady on his

1298
00:46:07,402 --> 00:46:09,555
feet, so I didn't wanna, like, up walking

1299
00:46:09,555 --> 00:46:10,353
around by himself.

1300
00:46:11,804 --> 00:46:12,304
And

1301
00:46:14,675 --> 00:46:16,031
he was just really ill.

1302
00:46:17,068 --> 00:46:17,568
And

1303
00:46:18,503 --> 00:46:19,003
also

1304
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:20,200
cognitive

1305
00:46:20,737 --> 00:46:21,237
seemed

1306
00:46:22,744 --> 00:46:24,338
not right, also,

1307
00:46:25,454 --> 00:46:26,650
I'm just not thinking right.

1308
00:46:28,323 --> 00:46:28,823
And

1309
00:46:29,454 --> 00:46:30,894
So we did that all, you know, pretty

1310
00:46:30,974 --> 00:46:32,674
Sunday all of gate into Monday

1311
00:46:33,214 --> 00:46:33,714
and

1312
00:46:34,494 --> 00:46:37,134
did you suggest did you suggest medical help

1313
00:46:37,134 --> 00:46:39,223
for him? I know Oh, yes. Know him.

1314
00:46:39,541 --> 00:46:41,845
Rejects it. Right Yeah. Okay. Correct. I begged

1315
00:46:41,845 --> 00:46:44,228
and pleaded, and, I know from past experience

1316
00:46:44,228 --> 00:46:46,134
but he didn't have to go if I

1317
00:46:46,134 --> 00:46:46,373
called.

1318
00:46:47,024 --> 00:46:48,221
He could just tell him no. I don't

1319
00:46:48,221 --> 00:46:49,577
need to go. I mean, they might come

1320
00:46:49,577 --> 00:46:51,093
and check him out at the house, but

1321
00:46:51,093 --> 00:46:53,088
he's not... They're not gonna force him into

1322
00:46:53,088 --> 00:46:54,386
an do. So

1323
00:46:55,336 --> 00:46:56,554
I kinda knew it was

1324
00:46:57,489 --> 00:46:59,721
futile to to try to force him.

1325
00:47:01,394 --> 00:47:01,953
But I, you know,

1326
00:47:03,642 --> 00:47:06,432
all all night all day on Monday. Well,

1327
00:47:06,592 --> 00:47:08,506
Monday he seemed to start to feel better

1328
00:47:08,506 --> 00:47:10,101
on Monday. So I, you know, I wasn't

1329
00:47:10,101 --> 00:47:10,739
quite as worried.

1330
00:47:12,269 --> 00:47:13,388
He's was still a little un steady on

1331
00:47:13,388 --> 00:47:14,906
his feet. We found a walker that we

1332
00:47:14,906 --> 00:47:16,504
had at the house he was using that,

1333
00:47:17,783 --> 00:47:19,860
then he was able to... He was, know,

1334
00:47:20,592 --> 00:47:22,181
able to, like, drink water and and sew

1335
00:47:22,181 --> 00:47:23,135
it and keep it down.

1336
00:47:24,803 --> 00:47:26,948
So I thought he was kinda bouncing back.

1337
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:28,179
And

1338
00:47:28,556 --> 00:47:30,787
09:00 that night after a bed been up

1339
00:47:30,787 --> 00:47:33,019
pretty much the whole night before? I said

1340
00:47:33,099 --> 00:47:34,613
I got... I gotta go to bed. Are

1341
00:47:34,613 --> 00:47:36,224
you coming to bed? Yeah. I'll be there

1342
00:47:36,224 --> 00:47:37,444
in a few. So

1343
00:47:38,304 --> 00:47:39,025
I went to bed.

1344
00:47:40,704 --> 00:47:42,704
Next thing I knew it was midnight threw

1345
00:47:42,704 --> 00:47:43,905
on the light in the room.

1346
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:45,300
And

1347
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,519
was going through to the bathroom and I

1348
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:51,680
was, like, 8 hon come into bed. Like,

1349
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,039
yep, I'll be there in a minute. I

1350
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:55,133
said, okay, babe. See in a few, and

1351
00:47:55,293 --> 00:47:56,092
I fell back to sleep.

1352
00:47:57,371 --> 00:47:57,871
And

1353
00:47:59,129 --> 00:48:01,068
the next thing I knew was

1354
00:48:02,006 --> 00:48:03,465
my oldest son

1355
00:48:05,213 --> 00:48:07,944
who his bedroom was in the basement. He

1356
00:48:08,479 --> 00:48:09,298
was screaming

1357
00:48:09,993 --> 00:48:10,710
from the kitchen.

1358
00:48:11,745 --> 00:48:12,462
Mom, mom,

1359
00:48:13,511 --> 00:48:15,179
come quick. I'm gonna call 911.

1360
00:48:16,530 --> 00:48:17,030
So

1361
00:48:17,642 --> 00:48:18,913
I'm up out of bed.

1362
00:48:20,359 --> 00:48:22,911
And ran out to the kitchen,

1363
00:48:24,108 --> 00:48:24,608
and

1364
00:48:24,985 --> 00:48:26,022
he's laying on the floor.

1365
00:48:30,264 --> 00:48:31,161
He had his

1366
00:48:31,695 --> 00:48:32,094
hands,

1367
00:48:33,525 --> 00:48:36,070
fist both hands fist up by his chest.

1368
00:48:38,311 --> 00:48:38,811
And

1369
00:48:39,582 --> 00:48:41,409
and knew... That was when he hit... When

1370
00:48:41,409 --> 00:48:43,395
he seated, that was typical.

1371
00:48:45,143 --> 00:48:46,572
Of what he would look like.

1372
00:48:47,303 --> 00:48:48,815
And I ran up to him,

1373
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,270
and knee down, and he was cold.

1374
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:56,880
And knew was gone.

1375
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:00,880
And I just was screaming and no. No.

1376
00:49:01,119 --> 00:49:02,260
No. Is

1377
00:49:03,289 --> 00:49:04,322
the last of the hope.

1378
00:49:06,625 --> 00:49:07,339
Died there.

1379
00:49:09,642 --> 00:49:11,492
And my son's on the phone

1380
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:14,451
with the 911 operator and

1381
00:49:15,146 --> 00:49:18,731
my daughter and son, other son came out,

1382
00:49:19,224 --> 00:49:22,092
of their bedrooms, and I asked him to

1383
00:49:22,092 --> 00:49:23,606
take her back through her bedroom, I didn't

1384
00:49:23,606 --> 00:49:24,163
want her to.

1385
00:49:26,646 --> 00:49:28,471
Have that memory, although she still does.

1386
00:49:30,613 --> 00:49:31,351
And then

1387
00:49:32,121 --> 00:49:33,525
my son put them his

1388
00:49:33,962 --> 00:49:35,815
meal down and started doing Cpr

1389
00:49:36,271 --> 00:49:36,589
compressions.

1390
00:49:37,226 --> 00:49:39,693
That's it, oh god. And he's gone and

1391
00:49:39,693 --> 00:49:41,444
he's like, I know, mom. I know. Just

1392
00:49:41,444 --> 00:49:42,240
go. Just go.

1393
00:49:43,529 --> 00:49:44,806
Because it was that with the worst.

1394
00:49:46,163 --> 00:49:46,881
There was nothing.

1395
00:49:47,519 --> 00:49:50,233
Nothing he could do, but he was following

1396
00:49:50,233 --> 00:49:50,952
their directions.

1397
00:49:54,548 --> 00:49:55,048
And,

1398
00:49:56,298 --> 00:49:57,594
yep. That was the

1399
00:49:59,176 --> 00:50:00,842
first day of this half of my life.

1400
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:01,580
So,

1401
00:50:05,047 --> 00:50:06,737
I just... I went out

1402
00:50:07,364 --> 00:50:09,362
tried to comfort my daughter told her to

1403
00:50:09,362 --> 00:50:10,081
call our friend.

1404
00:50:13,838 --> 00:50:15,996
Just started calling people. It was just it

1405
00:50:15,996 --> 00:50:16,496
was

1406
00:50:17,608 --> 00:50:20,802
it was, like, time was rushing and standing

1407
00:50:20,802 --> 00:50:22,239
still all at the same time.

1408
00:50:24,713 --> 00:50:25,751
Just unbelievable.

1409
00:50:27,042 --> 00:50:27,280
No.

1410
00:50:28,233 --> 00:50:29,845
Wow. Even with the

1411
00:50:30,775 --> 00:50:32,625
the warning signs and how

1412
00:50:33,078 --> 00:50:35,237
he had been the weekend leading up and

1413
00:50:35,237 --> 00:50:36,904
you pleading for him to get medical health,

1414
00:50:37,698 --> 00:50:39,761
you you still don't think it's gonna happen.

1415
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,587
You still can't even imagine that it could

1416
00:50:41,587 --> 00:50:41,904
happen.

1417
00:50:42,714 --> 00:50:43,753
No. No.

1418
00:50:44,952 --> 00:50:46,790
And it was it was... Yeah. I don't...

1419
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:48,409
I mean, in those

1420
00:50:48,788 --> 00:50:51,345
hours from when I went to bed that

1421
00:50:51,345 --> 00:50:51,585
night,

1422
00:50:52,318 --> 00:50:53,829
I got that call in the morning.

1423
00:50:54,704 --> 00:50:55,442
It was

1424
00:50:57,169 --> 00:50:59,554
just the evidence of a chaotic mind was

1425
00:50:59,554 --> 00:51:00,349
just everywhere.

1426
00:51:02,989 --> 00:51:05,058
A package of nuts from the freezers,

1427
00:51:05,456 --> 00:51:07,127
filled all over the kitchen floor.

1428
00:51:08,321 --> 00:51:10,788
The dish washing soap was in the refrigerator

1429
00:51:10,788 --> 00:51:11,288
refrigerator

1430
00:51:11,917 --> 00:51:14,542
there was a butane torch out on the

1431
00:51:14,542 --> 00:51:17,167
on the counter. There was some ramen, which

1432
00:51:17,167 --> 00:51:17,985
he hated

1433
00:51:19,330 --> 00:51:21,797
like, on a in the in us on

1434
00:51:21,797 --> 00:51:23,150
a pan by the this, you, on a

1435
00:51:23,150 --> 00:51:24,503
stove, it was just...

1436
00:51:25,298 --> 00:51:27,548
And we continued to find just

1437
00:51:28,257 --> 00:51:30,566
weird stuff throughout the house in the garage,

1438
00:51:30,963 --> 00:51:32,260
he was just everywhere

1439
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:36,694
leaving chaos behind, and, you know, what I'm

1440
00:51:36,694 --> 00:51:37,411
what a metaphor.

1441
00:51:39,726 --> 00:51:40,203
Yeah.

1442
00:51:41,075 --> 00:51:41,313
Yeah.

1443
00:51:42,027 --> 00:51:43,558
Absolutely evidence that

1444
00:51:44,899 --> 00:51:46,971
even when he still had a few breaths

1445
00:51:46,971 --> 00:51:48,884
left, he wasn't he wasn't with you. He

1446
00:51:48,884 --> 00:51:49,522
wasn't with us.

1447
00:51:50,877 --> 00:51:52,391
Amazing. Yeah. So sad.

1448
00:51:53,601 --> 00:51:54,659
So you mentioned,

1449
00:51:55,194 --> 00:51:56,469
you know, making phone calls.

1450
00:51:57,981 --> 00:51:58,880
What was

1451
00:51:59,574 --> 00:52:01,667
besides what's happening in your house besides

1452
00:52:02,138 --> 00:52:03,254
you and your kids.

1453
00:52:03,971 --> 00:52:06,225
What does other family know,

1454
00:52:07,399 --> 00:52:09,891
you know, beforehand? Like, was this a shock

1455
00:52:10,442 --> 00:52:12,590
or obviously, it's a shock book to what

1456
00:52:12,590 --> 00:52:14,420
degree was it a shock to the rest

1457
00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:16,011
of the family to find out that's got

1458
00:52:16,011 --> 00:52:16,489
it passed.

1459
00:52:19,373 --> 00:52:21,445
I think it was a shock to everyone.

1460
00:52:23,997 --> 00:52:24,497
My

1461
00:52:24,874 --> 00:52:25,853
side of the family

1462
00:52:27,201 --> 00:52:28,019
didn't really

1463
00:52:29,751 --> 00:52:30,569
know anything

1464
00:52:30,946 --> 00:52:31,844
as far as

1465
00:52:32,221 --> 00:52:33,336
his drinking problem.

1466
00:52:34,387 --> 00:52:36,697
I still... I mean, when when my my

1467
00:52:36,697 --> 00:52:38,847
mom and sister lived closed there, about, 20

1468
00:52:38,847 --> 00:52:41,816
miles, 20 minutes away. And they were over

1469
00:52:41,874 --> 00:52:42,374
and

1470
00:52:43,005 --> 00:52:45,105
Karen said what happened, and I just said

1471
00:52:45,164 --> 00:52:47,085
he drinks too much, and he would never

1472
00:52:47,085 --> 00:52:47,804
go to the doctor,

1473
00:52:48,684 --> 00:52:51,358
and I kinda left it at that. Which

1474
00:52:51,732 --> 00:52:52,947
is true and

1475
00:52:55,943 --> 00:52:58,423
yeah. So... And I I don't know how

1476
00:52:58,423 --> 00:53:00,817
much anybody else knows or has gas. I

1477
00:53:00,817 --> 00:53:02,653
guess they really haven't talked to them about

1478
00:53:02,653 --> 00:53:02,813
it.

1479
00:53:04,169 --> 00:53:06,737
It was... But, you know, it's cause of

1480
00:53:06,737 --> 00:53:08,730
death was was a head injury due to

1481
00:53:08,730 --> 00:53:10,564
an all seizure with was a head injury

1482
00:53:10,564 --> 00:53:12,021
was the kind of the official

1483
00:53:12,398 --> 00:53:13,116
cause of death.

1484
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:16,099
And

1485
00:53:16,788 --> 00:53:18,849
as far as his family members,

1486
00:53:19,801 --> 00:53:21,411
he has he's 1 of

1487
00:53:22,829 --> 00:53:24,428
for there's 5 boys. So there's 4 of

1488
00:53:24,428 --> 00:53:24,928
brothers

1489
00:53:25,547 --> 00:53:26,047
and

1490
00:53:27,864 --> 00:53:29,862
2 of them too... I I haven't... 1

1491
00:53:29,862 --> 00:53:32,200
of them were kinda that in

1492
00:53:32,673 --> 00:53:34,424
not on speaking terms,

1493
00:53:35,458 --> 00:53:37,527
but of the other 3, 2 of them

1494
00:53:37,527 --> 00:53:39,597
new and 1 of them was shocked that

1495
00:53:39,597 --> 00:53:41,507
that'd be had a drinking problem at all.

1496
00:53:43,432 --> 00:53:44,705
But they all know now.

1497
00:53:45,501 --> 00:53:47,251
Or heat. The 1 that didn't know knows

1498
00:53:47,251 --> 00:53:48,126
now too. So...

1499
00:53:52,605 --> 00:53:54,924
But didn't... Yeah. Did they did they know

1500
00:53:54,924 --> 00:53:55,424
because

1501
00:53:55,804 --> 00:53:57,484
he had con in them or did they

1502
00:53:57,484 --> 00:53:59,164
know because they had seen him at family

1503
00:53:59,164 --> 00:53:59,644
gatherings?

1504
00:54:01,337 --> 00:54:04,288
Because of... Yeah, How his his behavior,

1505
00:54:05,086 --> 00:54:07,239
1 of them both 2 of 1 that

1506
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,211
we're not speaking With and and 1 other

1507
00:54:10,523 --> 00:54:12,431
he we worked with for a while. Worked

1508
00:54:12,431 --> 00:54:12,909
for us.

1509
00:54:13,783 --> 00:54:15,317
So I think he kinda

1510
00:54:15,692 --> 00:54:18,418
caught on at, you know, that point

1511
00:54:19,601 --> 00:54:21,109
and, yeah. And what what his brothers told

1512
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:22,856
me, I could always tell where I talked

1513
00:54:22,856 --> 00:54:23,832
him on the phone

1514
00:54:24,364 --> 00:54:26,244
if he, you know, just be a he

1515
00:54:26,365 --> 00:54:28,365
would, you know, kinda repeat himself or ask

1516
00:54:28,365 --> 00:54:30,605
questions that he'd already asked or those kind

1517
00:54:30,605 --> 00:54:33,405
of things. So it was just catching clues

1518
00:54:33,405 --> 00:54:33,885
that way.

1519
00:54:35,419 --> 00:54:36,376
But... Yeah, it...

1520
00:54:37,253 --> 00:54:38,608
But the other 1 that you talked to

1521
00:54:38,608 --> 00:54:39,905
all the time didn't

1522
00:54:40,999 --> 00:54:42,695
didn't catch on at all. So

1523
00:54:43,961 --> 00:54:45,467
probably that I closest to.

1524
00:54:46,657 --> 00:54:49,297
The est with the 1 brother that was

1525
00:54:50,224 --> 00:54:51,121
not post

1526
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:53,824
modem. Like, that wasn't that... He... You know,

1527
00:54:53,983 --> 00:54:55,739
he wasn't blaming you for Scott's death. That

1528
00:54:55,739 --> 00:54:58,293
was something that happened prior to him passing

1529
00:54:58,293 --> 00:55:01,021
her. Yeah. That was that was... He was

1530
00:55:01,021 --> 00:55:03,734
a prior business partner in the second business,

1531
00:55:03,974 --> 00:55:05,969
and, yeah. We bought him out and that

1532
00:55:05,969 --> 00:55:07,266
didn't, I guess, didn't

1533
00:55:08,295 --> 00:55:11,074
Yeah. There's something totally different. Sure. Well, the

1534
00:55:11,074 --> 00:55:11,709
reason I...

1535
00:55:12,662 --> 00:55:14,012
Yeah. The the reason I ask and the

1536
00:55:14,012 --> 00:55:15,759
reason I think that is important is because

1537
00:55:15,759 --> 00:55:16,497
it's heartbreaking

1538
00:55:17,442 --> 00:55:17,942
But

1539
00:55:18,713 --> 00:55:20,780
we've seen a number of cases where,

1540
00:55:22,052 --> 00:55:24,437
after the the drinker dies,

1541
00:55:25,809 --> 00:55:26,309
the

1542
00:55:26,609 --> 00:55:29,429
there's a big rift in the family between

1543
00:55:29,650 --> 00:55:32,369
the in laws and the the surviving partner.

1544
00:55:34,144 --> 00:55:37,012
What has your experience been, you know, save

1545
00:55:37,012 --> 00:55:39,003
that 1 relationship that has nothing to do

1546
00:55:39,003 --> 00:55:39,402
with Scott.

1547
00:55:41,806 --> 00:55:44,592
Do you feel any blame coming your way

1548
00:55:44,592 --> 00:55:45,626
or are they supportive?

1549
00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:49,310
They're very supportive. I don't feel any blame

1550
00:55:49,367 --> 00:55:50,163
at all? Good.

1551
00:55:51,529 --> 00:55:51,847
Good.

1552
00:55:53,751 --> 00:55:55,020
That's that's great to hear.

1553
00:55:56,290 --> 00:55:57,663
So no blame

1554
00:55:58,929 --> 00:55:59,429
but

1555
00:56:00,289 --> 00:56:02,069
1 of the things that's

1556
00:56:02,769 --> 00:56:04,549
really tragic about

1557
00:56:05,170 --> 00:56:05,670
situations

1558
00:56:06,462 --> 00:56:09,112
where a drinker passes away is

1559
00:56:09,567 --> 00:56:12,115
you've explained your story and you've explained it

1560
00:56:12,115 --> 00:56:13,889
at a great level of detail

1561
00:56:14,596 --> 00:56:15,706
Sherry, and I have known you for quite

1562
00:56:15,706 --> 00:56:17,528
a while now. But even if you're just

1563
00:56:17,528 --> 00:56:19,114
a first time listening hearing the story for

1564
00:56:19,114 --> 00:56:19,748
the first time,

1565
00:56:21,016 --> 00:56:24,283
I think the unanimous opinion of our listeners

1566
00:56:24,283 --> 00:56:26,901
would be that you absolutely did everything you

1567
00:56:26,901 --> 00:56:27,139
could,

1568
00:56:28,567 --> 00:56:30,726
you were trying your best to your family,

1569
00:56:30,885 --> 00:56:32,713
but also to hold your family together,

1570
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:35,495
you were urging him to seek help,

1571
00:56:36,688 --> 00:56:38,596
you were being as helpful as you could

1572
00:56:38,596 --> 00:56:41,704
be as well. And then you ultimately did

1573
00:56:41,704 --> 00:56:42,679
the right thing

1574
00:56:43,051 --> 00:56:45,903
by detach and protecting yourself and protecting your

1575
00:56:45,903 --> 00:56:46,141
kids,

1576
00:56:47,029 --> 00:56:47,529
and

1577
00:56:48,705 --> 00:56:49,024
you know,

1578
00:56:49,742 --> 00:56:52,557
and and finding that ability to recharge and

1579
00:56:52,615 --> 00:56:54,871
connect with a friend when you could and

1580
00:56:55,183 --> 00:56:56,615
and do... So basically,

1581
00:56:57,648 --> 00:56:59,898
you know, you're putting the situation that's

1582
00:57:00,909 --> 00:57:03,454
un nav, but you still do an excellent

1583
00:57:03,454 --> 00:57:06,013
job of navigating it. Even with all that

1584
00:57:06,013 --> 00:57:07,762
said, and I think you know that. I

1585
00:57:07,762 --> 00:57:09,273
think you know everything I just said on

1586
00:57:09,273 --> 00:57:10,068
a conscious level.

1587
00:57:11,420 --> 00:57:14,305
Do you still have feelings of

1588
00:57:14,934 --> 00:57:18,363
you know, not just grief. Obviously, obviously, you

1589
00:57:18,363 --> 00:57:20,756
got grief, but do you have feelings of

1590
00:57:20,756 --> 00:57:21,256
guilt

1591
00:57:22,511 --> 00:57:24,026
with... And now that Scott's gone?

1592
00:57:26,349 --> 00:57:26,588
Yes.

1593
00:57:28,575 --> 00:57:29,075
As

1594
00:57:30,086 --> 00:57:32,391
much as I can... I tell myself, all

1595
00:57:32,391 --> 00:57:33,584
the things that you just said,

1596
00:57:35,675 --> 00:57:36,574
there's still

1597
00:57:37,675 --> 00:57:38,234
some guilt.

1598
00:57:41,275 --> 00:57:43,045
I you know, I don't feel like I

1599
00:57:43,045 --> 00:57:44,479
gave up on him, but in some ways,

1600
00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:45,515
I guess I did.

1601
00:57:47,188 --> 00:57:49,043
The hope was still there, but

1602
00:57:51,108 --> 00:57:51,847
it wasn't

1603
00:57:52,542 --> 00:57:53,520
as bright

1604
00:57:54,056 --> 00:57:55,251
as it started out.

1605
00:57:57,098 --> 00:57:59,081
But yeah... There's guilt of the the thoughts

1606
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,381
I used to have, of, you know, some...

1607
00:58:01,619 --> 00:58:02,888
This something needs to give.

1608
00:58:03,523 --> 00:58:04,792
1 of us has gotta go.

1609
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:06,319
Maybe,

1610
00:58:06,876 --> 00:58:09,027
it's just everything is so painful that I

1611
00:58:09,027 --> 00:58:10,483
just want want something

1612
00:58:11,894 --> 00:58:12,531
to end it.

1613
00:58:14,219 --> 00:58:16,697
Whatever that means. And there, you know, it's

1614
00:58:16,697 --> 00:58:18,934
not a fun thought to have, but maybe

1615
00:58:18,934 --> 00:58:21,033
1 of us should die, and then

1616
00:58:21,492 --> 00:58:23,090
maybe that, you know, it would make it

1617
00:58:23,090 --> 00:58:23,330
better.

1618
00:58:23,903 --> 00:58:25,253
And they didn't.

1619
00:58:26,444 --> 00:58:28,985
But but the thoughts happened, and III don't

1620
00:58:28,985 --> 00:58:29,644
think there's

1621
00:58:30,335 --> 00:58:32,161
a lot of us that that probably I

1622
00:58:32,161 --> 00:58:34,874
haven't had that leading thought with the thick

1623
00:58:34,874 --> 00:58:37,016
of it, but it still doesn't make you

1624
00:58:37,016 --> 00:58:38,309
feel real good when it

1625
00:58:38,761 --> 00:58:40,665
actually happens, You know? Yeah.

1626
00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:43,618
But and then all go through, could I...

1627
00:58:43,856 --> 00:58:46,001
Is there some way... Some I should could

1628
00:58:46,001 --> 00:58:48,170
have said that would have made him

1629
00:58:48,638 --> 00:58:49,194
get helped.

1630
00:58:50,068 --> 00:58:52,053
Even just that day go into the hospital

1631
00:58:52,132 --> 00:58:53,721
Is there anything more It could have done.

1632
00:58:54,515 --> 00:58:56,683
So you have those thoughts and feelings and

1633
00:58:57,072 --> 00:58:59,242
and it does have... There is some guilt

1634
00:58:59,696 --> 00:59:00,912
even though I can

1635
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:03,933
rationalize myself that

1636
00:59:05,355 --> 00:59:06,703
I don't need to feel guilty,

1637
00:59:08,051 --> 00:59:08,923
but it's still there.

1638
00:59:09,796 --> 00:59:10,272
Yeah.

1639
00:59:11,302 --> 00:59:12,278
Yeah. That

1640
00:59:12,905 --> 00:59:13,964
You know, unfortunately,

1641
00:59:14,664 --> 00:59:16,744
Sherry, and I have been doing this long

1642
00:59:16,744 --> 00:59:17,724
enough that we

1643
00:59:18,984 --> 00:59:21,565
we're very familiar with about a dozen cases

1644
00:59:21,784 --> 00:59:22,284
where

1645
00:59:23,314 --> 00:59:24,687
the alcoholic dies

1646
00:59:25,060 --> 00:59:27,704
and we've gotten to no partners and

1647
00:59:28,792 --> 00:59:30,856
in that situation. And I I have to

1648
00:59:30,856 --> 00:59:31,356
say

1649
00:59:31,903 --> 00:59:32,403
that

1650
00:59:33,733 --> 00:59:34,233
the

1651
00:59:34,609 --> 00:59:37,393
the feeling of guilt afterwards even though it

1652
00:59:37,393 --> 00:59:39,382
is not, and I don't mean this is

1653
00:59:39,382 --> 00:59:40,496
an insult, and I don't think you'll take

1654
00:59:40,496 --> 00:59:42,338
it that But even though it's not logical.

1655
00:59:42,655 --> 00:59:44,244
Even though as an outside observer, you look

1656
00:59:44,244 --> 00:59:46,546
and say, what on earth is she feeling

1657
00:59:46,546 --> 00:59:50,063
guilty about, she gave her everything to this

1658
00:59:50,063 --> 00:59:52,540
person in this relationship and this family.

1659
00:59:54,058 --> 00:59:56,695
It's it's still universal. Even though it doesn't

1660
00:59:56,695 --> 00:59:58,625
make any sense still universal. And the other

1661
00:59:58,625 --> 01:00:00,241
thing that I wanna

1662
01:00:00,618 --> 01:00:01,118
just

1663
01:00:01,973 --> 01:00:03,488
drive... The point I wanna drive home.

1664
01:00:04,205 --> 01:00:06,933
You mentioned those feelings of something's gotta change.

1665
01:00:07,093 --> 01:00:09,010
What if what if 1 of us just

1666
01:00:09,010 --> 01:00:09,329
died,

1667
01:00:09,969 --> 01:00:10,948
that is also

1668
01:00:11,407 --> 01:00:12,706
a very universal

1669
01:00:13,177 --> 01:00:16,692
feeling among the loved ones of alcoholic. And

1670
01:00:16,986 --> 01:00:18,731
it's 1 of those things that you keep

1671
01:00:18,731 --> 01:00:20,104
hidden away and you think

1672
01:00:20,413 --> 01:00:22,345
I can't let anyone know that I'm... I've

1673
01:00:22,402 --> 01:00:24,788
entertain these thoughts. Not that you ever gonna

1674
01:00:24,788 --> 01:00:26,538
act dot, You know, nothing nothing like that,

1675
01:00:26,697 --> 01:00:28,526
but even that the thought crosses your mind,

1676
01:00:29,018 --> 01:00:30,770
because you're in so much pain. And I

1677
01:00:30,770 --> 01:00:33,499
think that's important for the drinkers

1678
01:00:33,954 --> 01:00:36,582
that listen to this podcast to understand when

1679
01:00:36,582 --> 01:00:39,389
you're making rules. And you're trying to figure

1680
01:00:39,389 --> 01:00:40,905
it out and, oh, I'm gonna cut back,

1681
01:00:41,144 --> 01:00:43,059
and and I'm only gonna drink beer and

1682
01:00:43,219 --> 01:00:44,416
I'm not gonna drink hard liquor.

1683
01:00:46,182 --> 01:00:48,989
I think for most of us myself, 1000

1684
01:00:49,046 --> 01:00:51,433
percent included. I didn't understand the pain I

1685
01:00:51,433 --> 01:00:53,342
was putting Sherry and my family through.

1686
01:00:53,914 --> 01:00:55,273
I mean, here we are. I'm 7 and

1687
01:00:55,273 --> 01:00:57,830
a half months... Yeah. That much. 7 and

1688
01:00:57,830 --> 01:00:58,949
a half years sober,

1689
01:00:59,588 --> 01:01:00,088
and

1690
01:01:00,947 --> 01:01:03,045
we're still... It just deep

1691
01:01:03,438 --> 01:01:06,460
in a, a difficult situation with 1 of

1692
01:01:06,460 --> 01:01:08,630
our kids who is really struggling

1693
01:01:09,005 --> 01:01:09,505
with

1694
01:01:10,596 --> 01:01:11,334
the childhood

1695
01:01:11,723 --> 01:01:13,151
that was experienced. And so...

1696
01:01:14,024 --> 01:01:15,610
And I had no idea. I thought, yeah.

1697
01:01:15,848 --> 01:01:17,594
I drink too much sometimes. I gotta I

1698
01:01:17,594 --> 01:01:18,307
gotta fix this.

1699
01:01:18,959 --> 01:01:22,152
But the the thoughts and the feelings that

1700
01:01:22,152 --> 01:01:24,867
you have now, now that he's past are

1701
01:01:24,867 --> 01:01:26,782
so similar to the thoughts and feelings, other

1702
01:01:26,782 --> 01:01:28,792
people in that situation of hat. And just

1703
01:01:28,792 --> 01:01:30,487
this idea that

1704
01:01:30,942 --> 01:01:33,570
you occasionally had thoughts of if 1 of

1705
01:01:33,570 --> 01:01:35,482
us would die, it would... Maybe it would

1706
01:01:35,482 --> 01:01:36,858
be better. That is

1707
01:01:37,407 --> 01:01:40,181
you're not alone. You're in that's so so

1708
01:01:40,181 --> 01:01:42,399
common. I mean, you felt that way sometimes

1709
01:01:42,399 --> 01:01:44,875
sherry. Right? Yeah. I was like, yeah. Something

1710
01:01:44,875 --> 01:01:46,875
big. Something big has got to change to

1711
01:01:46,875 --> 01:01:49,275
wake him up, You know, whether it's to

1712
01:01:49,275 --> 01:01:52,315
me, or, like, an illness or cancer or

1713
01:01:52,315 --> 01:01:54,568
something, like, and you've wanna go there, but

1714
01:01:54,568 --> 01:01:55,367
that's what happens.

1715
01:01:55,926 --> 01:01:58,184
Because you're, like, there's nothing that I'm saying

1716
01:01:59,042 --> 01:02:00,480
on a day to day basis and he

1717
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,534
never had a necessarily a rock bottom that

1718
01:02:03,534 --> 01:02:05,954
was tragic enough or didn't have a Dui

1719
01:02:06,255 --> 01:02:08,894
that he had to do, you know, ahead

1720
01:02:08,894 --> 01:02:10,506
of his license taken away for a while

1721
01:02:10,506 --> 01:02:12,593
and have to experience that pain. Nothing

1722
01:02:13,283 --> 01:02:14,814
nothing bad was really

1723
01:02:15,425 --> 01:02:17,250
dramatic enough to make him make that change.

1724
01:02:17,409 --> 01:02:18,067
And that's

1725
01:02:19,011 --> 01:02:22,610
it came from the detachment and his anxiety

1726
01:02:22,984 --> 01:02:25,050
and depression it had to come from within

1727
01:02:25,050 --> 01:02:25,289
himself.

1728
01:02:26,972 --> 01:02:29,195
I was gonna ask... Like, because I know

1729
01:02:29,195 --> 01:02:29,695
that

1730
01:02:30,943 --> 01:02:33,507
so many of these deaths are labeled

1731
01:02:34,119 --> 01:02:35,096
that have

1732
01:02:35,723 --> 01:02:38,102
Their death certificate has nothing to do with

1733
01:02:38,102 --> 01:02:40,799
alcohol. Yeah. My brother, he was my ex

1734
01:02:40,799 --> 01:02:42,941
brother all the time, a heart attack.

1735
01:02:43,908 --> 01:02:44,408
Was

1736
01:02:44,862 --> 01:02:47,246
he drank and smoked cigarettes to his death.

1737
01:02:47,723 --> 01:02:49,494
You know, nothing was ever

1738
01:02:50,107 --> 01:02:52,332
ever recorded. My sister left him because of

1739
01:02:52,332 --> 01:02:54,649
that. She could not just watch him waste

1740
01:02:54,649 --> 01:02:57,110
away, and it was sucking her life.

1741
01:02:57,745 --> 01:02:58,221
Away too.

1742
01:02:59,094 --> 01:03:01,340
But was there ever talk in

1743
01:03:01,730 --> 01:03:04,845
the autopsy of getting a blood alcohol level

1744
01:03:04,845 --> 01:03:06,443
or was he just so sick that he

1745
01:03:06,443 --> 01:03:08,121
wasn't able to keep anything down then it

1746
01:03:08,121 --> 01:03:08,440
was showed?

1747
01:03:09,494 --> 01:03:11,250
Yeah. I'm not... I... I... I'd have to

1748
01:03:11,250 --> 01:03:12,927
go back and look, but there was mention

1749
01:03:12,927 --> 01:03:13,485
of it

1750
01:03:14,124 --> 01:03:15,082
on the ata autopsy,

1751
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,296
I think it was called an underlying

1752
01:03:18,849 --> 01:03:20,777
like, underlying alcohol

1753
01:03:21,627 --> 01:03:23,873
use was with how it was labeled. So

1754
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,865
so there is mention, but I think the

1755
01:03:26,865 --> 01:03:27,365
main

1756
01:03:27,754 --> 01:03:29,908
thing was the... Was, like, a traumatic brain

1757
01:03:29,908 --> 01:03:31,343
injury to a fall,

1758
01:03:32,141 --> 01:03:33,975
then I think some... I think that's where

1759
01:03:33,975 --> 01:03:35,890
they may be... There was some... There was

1760
01:03:35,890 --> 01:03:37,405
mention of it, but it wasn't, like,

1761
01:03:38,138 --> 01:03:39,494
that's what Killing was not.

1762
01:03:40,212 --> 01:03:42,764
Yeah. And and when the deaths and, you

1763
01:03:42,764 --> 01:03:44,439
know, it's not that you wanna have the

1764
01:03:44,439 --> 01:03:45,258
shock factor

1765
01:03:45,875 --> 01:03:47,605
of the amount of deaths that are

1766
01:03:47,962 --> 01:03:49,097
you know, calculated

1767
01:03:49,471 --> 01:03:52,251
annually by alcohol. Like, it's easy to say,

1768
01:03:52,409 --> 01:03:54,077
oh, it's not nearly as many. But you

1769
01:03:54,077 --> 01:03:56,619
know that so many of that, you know,

1770
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:59,186
that the fall happened, probably because he was

1771
01:03:59,186 --> 01:04:00,085
having a seizure

1772
01:04:00,782 --> 01:04:02,938
because of the alcohol and then we can't

1773
01:04:02,938 --> 01:04:05,333
really account for that. What's a really important

1774
01:04:05,333 --> 01:04:06,371
point. You know?

1775
01:04:07,184 --> 01:04:08,719
Melanie knows, we know

1776
01:04:09,095 --> 01:04:11,643
because we're in. But but, you know, the

1777
01:04:11,643 --> 01:04:14,191
the the causes of death to reported on

1778
01:04:14,191 --> 01:04:15,009
death certificates

1779
01:04:15,719 --> 01:04:19,139
range from cancer to heart attack to traumatic

1780
01:04:19,139 --> 01:04:21,366
brain injury to a whole host of other

1781
01:04:21,366 --> 01:04:22,344
things. It's not

1782
01:04:22,734 --> 01:04:25,527
It's not like with smoking and lung cancer

1783
01:04:25,527 --> 01:04:28,719
that direct correlation. There's literally dozens of causes

1784
01:04:28,719 --> 01:04:31,363
of death that that the the people closest

1785
01:04:31,363 --> 01:04:33,110
to the person really know it was alcohol.

1786
01:04:33,587 --> 01:04:35,494
And it the the death certificate to my

1787
01:04:35,494 --> 01:04:37,320
knowledge never says alcohol. I guess if it

1788
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:38,139
was acute

1789
01:04:38,512 --> 01:04:40,315
alcohol poisoning, but that's

1790
01:04:41,074 --> 01:04:43,071
It almost never says Yeah. Alcohol.

1791
01:04:44,030 --> 01:04:46,028
That is tragic. That's a part of the

1792
01:04:46,028 --> 01:04:48,425
tragic story. Yeah. And it's not that... I

1793
01:04:48,425 --> 01:04:50,198
wanna have that shock factor, but it's just

1794
01:04:50,198 --> 01:04:51,976
the way that our society

1795
01:04:52,435 --> 01:04:55,012
makes it seem like it's just such a

1796
01:04:55,151 --> 01:04:57,958
benign substance Yeah. To put into your body

1797
01:04:57,958 --> 01:04:59,791
and just, you know, on a daily basis.

1798
01:05:00,109 --> 01:05:01,862
And even in the beginning of your story,

1799
01:05:02,340 --> 01:05:04,411
like, it was kind of probably shocking for

1800
01:05:04,411 --> 01:05:05,947
you looking back, realizing

1801
01:05:06,258 --> 01:05:08,326
his first seizure, and you didn't know how

1802
01:05:08,326 --> 01:05:10,076
much he was drinking, but the amount of

1803
01:05:10,076 --> 01:05:11,269
years that really was...

1804
01:05:12,144 --> 01:05:13,577
That it seemed like it was a short

1805
01:05:13,577 --> 01:05:14,213
amount of time.

1806
01:05:15,105 --> 01:05:16,864
Before he experiences for seizure.

1807
01:05:18,144 --> 01:05:18,644
It

1808
01:05:18,945 --> 01:05:21,984
shocked was very shocking. Right? Yeah. And and

1809
01:05:22,144 --> 01:05:24,144
I don't you know, if he was extra

1810
01:05:24,144 --> 01:05:27,236
sensitive because... Or that's just could happen to

1811
01:05:27,236 --> 01:05:29,614
anybody but, yeah, Just... As far as either

1812
01:05:29,614 --> 01:05:31,304
he hit it really well. How much he

1813
01:05:31,304 --> 01:05:32,985
was thinking it really wasn't that much, but

1814
01:05:32,985 --> 01:05:34,824
it went from that to 0 and that

1815
01:05:34,824 --> 01:05:35,724
was enough

1816
01:05:36,744 --> 01:05:39,304
to cause it. So... And, you know. Yeah.

1817
01:05:39,878 --> 01:05:42,181
It's an even just looking back,

1818
01:05:43,213 --> 01:05:44,190
it really was

1819
01:05:44,564 --> 01:05:47,344
10 or 15 years in total where Jim

1820
01:05:47,344 --> 01:05:48,717
was even on the radar

1821
01:05:49,901 --> 01:05:52,449
And it killed him. So it's not somebody

1822
01:05:52,449 --> 01:05:55,076
that has to be drinking for 30, 40

1823
01:05:55,076 --> 01:05:57,088
years, and then it killed It can be

1824
01:05:57,478 --> 01:05:58,669
10:15

1825
01:05:58,669 --> 01:06:00,733
years, and, you know, really only in the

1826
01:06:00,733 --> 01:06:03,353
last 10, I would say was was heavy.

1827
01:06:04,147 --> 01:06:06,863
Mh. And day, you know, daily stuff. So,

1828
01:06:07,023 --> 01:06:08,240
yeah, It's

1829
01:06:08,856 --> 01:06:11,588
it's really a lot more dangerous than than

1830
01:06:12,125 --> 01:06:13,342
society wants to

1831
01:06:14,277 --> 01:06:14,437
believe.

1832
01:06:15,408 --> 01:06:15,804
Yeah.

1833
01:06:16,835 --> 01:06:20,246
Yeah. How how are the kids doing? You

1834
01:06:20,246 --> 01:06:22,729
you mentioned teenage boys. Are they

1835
01:06:23,754 --> 01:06:25,592
are they talking about it? Do they do

1836
01:06:25,592 --> 01:06:27,750
they get, you know, do they talk to

1837
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:30,067
counselors? Like, will they open up about how

1838
01:06:30,067 --> 01:06:30,547
they're doing?

1839
01:06:32,958 --> 01:06:35,184
They they talked to each other on a

1840
01:06:35,184 --> 01:06:37,012
lot, but I've... And I've offered, you know,

1841
01:06:37,092 --> 01:06:39,023
if they wanna go using for grief counseling

1842
01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:40,613
or, you know, they talk to me

1843
01:06:41,321 --> 01:06:44,344
but, no. They haven't really done brief counseling

1844
01:06:44,344 --> 01:06:45,856
or anything like that, but

1845
01:06:47,526 --> 01:06:49,299
I'm pretty open about

1846
01:06:50,324 --> 01:06:52,152
and they are too about, you know,

1847
01:06:53,026 --> 01:06:56,068
alcohol and and they know the dangers.

1848
01:06:59,319 --> 01:07:01,069
But... Yeah. And and they're doing good.

1849
01:07:03,854 --> 01:07:06,559
They're both you know, in their young twenties

1850
01:07:06,559 --> 01:07:06,877
now.

1851
01:07:08,568 --> 01:07:09,068
So

1852
01:07:10,965 --> 01:07:11,923
they're they're doing well.

1853
01:07:12,643 --> 01:07:14,880
Okay. And my daughter my daughter did go

1854
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:16,815
to do some greek counts and just to

1855
01:07:16,815 --> 01:07:18,335
talk to somebody that wasn't me.

1856
01:07:19,934 --> 01:07:20,434
And

1857
01:07:20,894 --> 01:07:23,934
and she is... She still processes like every

1858
01:07:23,934 --> 01:07:24,949
day. And I think

1859
01:07:25,703 --> 01:07:28,081
it's it's talked about a lot by her.

1860
01:07:29,904 --> 01:07:33,012
Just kinda... If she goes through times where

1861
01:07:33,012 --> 01:07:35,420
she's really angry and angry with Daddy and

1862
01:07:38,019 --> 01:07:39,791
remembers a lot of the the yelling

1863
01:07:41,771 --> 01:07:44,474
and him not bad I'm not being happy

1864
01:07:44,474 --> 01:07:45,746
with her, and I had said it's... It

1865
01:07:45,746 --> 01:07:46,621
wasn't you, You know?

1866
01:07:47,496 --> 01:07:49,007
That he just wasn't happy. It didn't have

1867
01:07:49,007 --> 01:07:51,411
anything to do with you. All, but that's...

1868
01:07:51,890 --> 01:07:54,044
It takes long time for her or it's

1869
01:07:54,044 --> 01:07:55,720
a kind of sink in. So we do

1870
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:56,837
a lot of repetition.

1871
01:07:58,128 --> 01:08:00,600
In that way. But but they're they're they're

1872
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,550
doing okay. They're doing okay. Well, they're they're

1873
01:08:03,550 --> 01:08:05,623
blessed to have someone as wonderful as you

1874
01:08:05,623 --> 01:08:08,666
for a mother who's open to continuing to

1875
01:08:08,666 --> 01:08:10,817
process and I know what kind of patients

1876
01:08:10,817 --> 01:08:11,954
you have. And so

1877
01:08:12,570 --> 01:08:13,367
they're very lucky.

1878
01:08:14,815 --> 01:08:16,088
Melanie, how...

1879
01:08:16,963 --> 01:08:17,463
So

1880
01:08:18,793 --> 01:08:20,385
Scott is gone.

1881
01:08:21,181 --> 01:08:21,681
And

1882
01:08:24,296 --> 01:08:26,143
there is a tension

1883
01:08:26,831 --> 01:08:28,916
because, you... You know, alcohol is

1884
01:08:29,287 --> 01:08:31,920
alcoholism is something that gets hidden within the

1885
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,381
4 walls of the family home so commonly.

1886
01:08:34,858 --> 01:08:36,207
But when somebody dies,

1887
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:38,193
everything changes.

1888
01:08:38,844 --> 01:08:40,701
You you can't you can't just

1889
01:08:41,239 --> 01:08:44,533
deny anymore. How do you handle the tension

1890
01:08:44,671 --> 01:08:45,171
between

1891
01:08:45,630 --> 01:08:49,398
honesty and authenticity and also, honoring Scott's memory.

1892
01:08:50,356 --> 01:08:51,155
Is that hard?

1893
01:08:52,833 --> 01:08:53,552
Yes, It is.

1894
01:08:55,310 --> 01:08:55,470
Because...

1895
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:59,174
I don't want to

1896
01:09:01,221 --> 01:09:04,327
dispatch Scott or give him the label in

1897
01:09:04,327 --> 01:09:07,068
death he never accepted for himself

1898
01:09:07,442 --> 01:09:08,157
in his life.

1899
01:09:10,222 --> 01:09:12,787
So, I guess, I I... And

1900
01:09:13,573 --> 01:09:16,034
to be honest, but I guess, like, it

1901
01:09:16,034 --> 01:09:18,019
it's easier for me the people that are

1902
01:09:18,019 --> 01:09:20,082
a little bit removed. Like, my family hasn't

1903
01:09:20,082 --> 01:09:22,956
really asked me directly, like, to what was

1904
01:09:22,956 --> 01:09:24,229
going on of that up to this,

1905
01:09:25,264 --> 01:09:27,254
except for that my... That first morning with

1906
01:09:27,254 --> 01:09:29,005
my sister and what I told her, which,

1907
01:09:29,084 --> 01:09:31,233
you know, probably did spread through the family,

1908
01:09:31,392 --> 01:09:31,892
but

1909
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:33,800
but, like,

1910
01:09:35,315 --> 01:09:37,469
friends that I'm... I've kind of reconnected with,

1911
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:41,720
it's easier to be kind more honest with

1912
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:42,220
them

1913
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,840
because they didn't know Scott as well. But

1914
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:45,899
it it is hard

1915
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,566
because he was loved by my family, and

1916
01:09:49,566 --> 01:09:50,762
he loved my family.

1917
01:09:52,278 --> 01:09:52,778
And

1918
01:09:53,634 --> 01:09:55,947
so I don't want them to think poorly

1919
01:09:55,947 --> 01:09:56,426
of him.

1920
01:09:59,385 --> 01:10:01,692
So, yeah, It is hard. It's hard to

1921
01:10:01,692 --> 01:10:02,248
to know...

1922
01:10:04,094 --> 01:10:05,931
How much people really wanna know.

1923
01:10:08,248 --> 01:10:11,125
Yeah. And and how to still honor him,

1924
01:10:11,619 --> 01:10:13,377
and that... Because like I said, we he

1925
01:10:13,377 --> 01:10:14,736
to love of my life, if I don't...

1926
01:10:15,055 --> 01:10:16,573
I... And he always will be,

1927
01:10:18,491 --> 01:10:19,291
that didn't change.

1928
01:10:20,104 --> 01:10:21,400
So I don't want to

1929
01:10:22,811 --> 01:10:24,961
have people think poorly of him.

1930
01:10:26,394 --> 01:10:27,827
The bad boy with a good heart.

1931
01:10:29,115 --> 01:10:30,389
I love how you describe that.

1932
01:10:31,503 --> 01:10:31,822
Yeah.

1933
01:10:33,413 --> 01:10:35,323
I I can only imagine how difficult that

1934
01:10:35,323 --> 01:10:35,483
is.

1935
01:10:37,330 --> 01:10:37,830
So

1936
01:10:38,924 --> 01:10:41,634
you just came across the 1 year anniversary

1937
01:10:41,634 --> 01:10:43,386
back in June of Scott's passing.

1938
01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:46,057
And I know that you had hoped

1939
01:10:46,516 --> 01:10:48,215
that there was something kind of

1940
01:10:50,112 --> 01:10:50,612
monumental

1941
01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:53,878
or... Something kinda magical about the 1 year

1942
01:10:53,878 --> 01:10:55,873
mark and that some of the pain would

1943
01:10:55,873 --> 01:10:57,948
go away and you'd feel relief, but that

1944
01:10:57,948 --> 01:10:58,586
didn't happen.

1945
01:10:59,399 --> 01:10:59,796
For you.

1946
01:11:00,748 --> 01:11:02,179
Can you talk a little bit about that?

1947
01:11:02,417 --> 01:11:04,720
And and what does your ongoing... What does

1948
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:06,547
your work? We talked about the kids, but

1949
01:11:06,547 --> 01:11:08,375
what does your work in recovery look like?

1950
01:11:11,177 --> 01:11:13,113
Yeah. It was kind of a

1951
01:11:14,049 --> 01:11:16,202
the day of his... The anniversary of his

1952
01:11:16,202 --> 01:11:18,355
death it kinda kept myself busy when Out

1953
01:11:18,355 --> 01:11:20,117
with for lunch with my daughter and a

1954
01:11:20,117 --> 01:11:22,894
friend and did some shopping, and and it

1955
01:11:22,894 --> 01:11:25,140
was the week after where it was just

1956
01:11:25,512 --> 01:11:25,671
I,

1957
01:11:27,275 --> 01:11:29,681
burst to crying out of nowhere and

1958
01:11:30,612 --> 01:11:31,112
just,

1959
01:11:32,519 --> 01:11:34,448
I guess, I don't know if it's a

1960
01:11:35,639 --> 01:11:37,476
I thought that once we hit the 1

1961
01:11:37,476 --> 01:11:39,554
year, all the first row the first you

1962
01:11:39,554 --> 01:11:42,032
know holidays and Great days and all that.

1963
01:11:42,192 --> 01:11:43,230
The first were gone,

1964
01:11:44,043 --> 01:11:46,351
this should be easier, and then it wasn't.

1965
01:11:47,466 --> 01:11:49,694
So it wasn't some kind of magic switch

1966
01:11:49,694 --> 01:11:52,160
that just made everything through a better. It

1967
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:52,899
was just

1968
01:11:54,007 --> 01:11:55,363
the second, the next time.

1969
01:11:57,995 --> 01:12:00,409
We made it a year, but there's still

1970
01:12:01,105 --> 01:12:01,823
more to go.

1971
01:12:03,274 --> 01:12:04,895
And I I know, I I

1972
01:12:05,514 --> 01:12:06,255
met to

1973
01:12:06,795 --> 01:12:09,454
plug ec, but that's kind of my

1974
01:12:10,154 --> 01:12:11,729
a big part of my

1975
01:12:12,087 --> 01:12:12,985
continued processing

1976
01:12:15,031 --> 01:12:17,519
is there. The the writing prompts

1977
01:12:17,894 --> 01:12:18,633
help me

1978
01:12:19,819 --> 01:12:20,376
and just

1979
01:12:21,251 --> 01:12:23,955
like, interacting with the people there. It's really

1980
01:12:23,955 --> 01:12:25,489
helpful to know

1981
01:12:26,039 --> 01:12:29,159
I'm not alone in in different thoughts that

1982
01:12:30,359 --> 01:12:32,279
Either had or had.

1983
01:12:34,119 --> 01:12:34,619
And

1984
01:12:35,253 --> 01:12:36,601
And then I, you know, I have a

1985
01:12:36,601 --> 01:12:37,394
really good friend,

1986
01:12:38,822 --> 01:12:41,756
that he knows everything, and and we talk

1987
01:12:41,756 --> 01:12:42,810
a lot to

1988
01:12:43,516 --> 01:12:44,868
she tells me kind of the same things

1989
01:12:44,868 --> 01:12:46,537
that you were saying about. There's nothing for

1990
01:12:46,537 --> 01:12:48,207
you to feel guilty about. She checks in

1991
01:12:48,207 --> 01:12:49,559
with me on how I'm was feeling in

1992
01:12:49,559 --> 01:12:51,649
that way quite often. So

1993
01:12:52,993 --> 01:12:54,265
she's really good for me too.

1994
01:12:56,095 --> 01:12:58,004
So... And And I do talk to the

1995
01:12:58,004 --> 01:12:59,729
kids too, not not about

1996
01:13:00,168 --> 01:13:02,163
me stuff so much, but about dumb stuff,

1997
01:13:02,404 --> 01:13:04,500
and they do ask about me too. So

1998
01:13:06,234 --> 01:13:07,851
but, yeah, It's just

1999
01:13:08,885 --> 01:13:11,364
I I tried... I had a had... Well,

2000
01:13:11,925 --> 01:13:12,564
had a young,

2001
01:13:14,725 --> 01:13:16,404
a friend of mine who was widowed even

2002
01:13:16,404 --> 01:13:18,097
younger than I was and and she's been

2003
01:13:18,097 --> 01:13:19,931
kind of an inspiration to me too,

2004
01:13:21,527 --> 01:13:23,202
team said early on, he has to find

2005
01:13:23,202 --> 01:13:25,196
the joy in every day, and I I

2006
01:13:25,196 --> 01:13:27,030
really try to live like that too.

2007
01:13:27,842 --> 01:13:28,819
And do things

2008
01:13:30,227 --> 01:13:30,727
that

2009
01:13:31,102 --> 01:13:32,000
I enjoy

2010
01:13:32,533 --> 01:13:33,033
and

2011
01:13:34,283 --> 01:13:36,930
and just live life because

2012
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:39,149
even though he's not here anymore, that's what

2013
01:13:39,149 --> 01:13:41,376
he'd want for me. I want for the

2014
01:13:41,376 --> 01:13:41,614
kids.

2015
01:13:43,046 --> 01:13:45,136
And I I really believe that

2016
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,578
he now has clear... Would have that clarity.

2017
01:13:51,247 --> 01:13:51,747
And

2018
01:13:53,487 --> 01:13:55,627
part of honoring his memory is living our

2019
01:13:55,627 --> 01:13:56,103
best lives.

2020
01:13:58,482 --> 01:13:58,800
Wow,

2021
01:13:59,592 --> 01:14:00,385
so well said,

2022
01:14:02,311 --> 01:14:05,523
I think 1 of the reasons that I'm

2023
01:14:05,581 --> 01:14:09,330
confident that you're gonna be okay is because

2024
01:14:09,330 --> 01:14:10,707
of the way you have

2025
01:14:11,579 --> 01:14:13,198
just dove head first

2026
01:14:13,577 --> 01:14:14,077
into

2027
01:14:14,456 --> 01:14:14,956
being

2028
01:14:15,335 --> 01:14:18,451
an authentic and vulnerable people and finding the

2029
01:14:18,451 --> 01:14:19,350
connection you need

2030
01:14:19,663 --> 01:14:20,856
to work through all of this.

2031
01:14:22,207 --> 01:14:24,354
I mean, I don't know why you trust

2032
01:14:24,354 --> 01:14:26,024
us and the rest of the group to

2033
01:14:26,024 --> 01:14:28,184
the degree that you do. But we are

2034
01:14:28,184 --> 01:14:30,091
just blessed that you do and we're better

2035
01:14:30,091 --> 01:14:31,464
people for it because

2036
01:14:32,791 --> 01:14:34,855
you know, you have shared not only your

2037
01:14:34,855 --> 01:14:36,864
experience, but your process and

2038
01:14:37,490 --> 01:14:38,943
you have hopefully,

2039
01:14:39,949 --> 01:14:41,615
you know, you've gotten some help from it,

2040
01:14:41,695 --> 01:14:44,709
but you've given way, way more to our

2041
01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:47,344
group. And to Sharing and I personally than

2042
01:14:47,344 --> 01:14:49,726
than anything you've gotten from us. So thank

2043
01:14:49,726 --> 01:14:51,949
you for trusting us. Thank you for coming

2044
01:14:51,949 --> 01:14:52,926
on, and

2045
01:14:54,272 --> 01:14:56,666
delivering this message that's painful but needs to

2046
01:14:56,666 --> 01:14:58,341
be... Needs to be shared with the world.

2047
01:14:58,900 --> 01:15:00,836
So thank you for coming on the intoxicated

2048
01:15:01,070 --> 01:15:02,430
podcast guest. We appreciate you. And we love

2049
01:15:02,430 --> 01:15:02,909
you Melanie.

2050
01:15:03,630 --> 01:15:04,430
Alright. Thank you.

2051
01:15:06,670 --> 01:15:08,590
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these

2052
01:15:08,590 --> 01:15:09,470
3 resources.

2053
01:15:10,030 --> 01:15:12,119
If you love or loved an alcoholic. We

2054
01:15:12,119 --> 01:15:14,352
offer support and connection in our echoes of

2055
01:15:14,352 --> 01:15:16,984
recovery group. Check us out at echoes of

2056
01:15:16,984 --> 01:15:19,616
recovery dot org. If you are a high

2057
01:15:19,616 --> 01:15:22,806
functioning alcohol, seeking methods and connection in early

2058
01:15:22,806 --> 01:15:23,203
sobriety.

2059
01:15:23,759 --> 01:15:26,058
We're ready for you at shout sobriety dot

2060
01:15:26,058 --> 01:15:26,375
org.

2061
01:15:26,930 --> 01:15:28,932
No matter who you are, the something for

2062
01:15:28,932 --> 01:15:31,883
you in our book, sober revolution, evolve into

2063
01:15:31,883 --> 01:15:34,913
sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage. Go to

2064
01:15:34,913 --> 01:15:37,920
sober revolution dot org. For my wife, Sherry

2065
01:15:38,038 --> 01:15:40,574
Bayless, I'm Matt Sal. Thanks for listening to

2066
01:15:40,574 --> 01:15:42,104
the intoxicated podcast.

2067
01:15:43,031 --> 01:15:43,163
Bayless