Welcome to the intoxicated
podcast.
Well, I'm Sherry S, and that was my
husband Matt. We have questions about the impact
of alcohol and addiction on relationships. If you
have those kinds of questions to you're in
the right place, Here we go.
Welcome to the intoxicated podcast melanie.
I know how excited
Sherry and I both are to have you
because,
when we just love having guests on. But
also because in the
few months that we've known you now, you
have become a dear sweet friend and a
really important part of our lives. And anytime
we get a chance to interact with you,
it's a huge blessing
And so thank you for taking the time
and being with us on the intoxicated podcast
melanie.
Thank you for having me. Melanie
is besides a friend of ours.
Her husband named Scott suffered from alcohol use
disorder.
She has 3 kids
she has... Is a dog and cat lover
and has them usually on the video screen
when we're on Zoom calls, so Sherry gets
to look and admire.
And gus over them.
Along with your husband, Scott, you started businesses
together, and so you are a business owner
And Sadly Melanie, you for a little over
a year now,
anniversary was in June, I believe,
you are a widow.
Yes.
Well, thank you for coming on. I know
how
difficult this is, but it's really, really important.
And so
Thank you so much for coming on and
telling your story. And so I think
we should jump right in
with your story and and let's start for
the beginning how you and Scott met and
and what were the early years like?
Okay.
Well, we met in... I think it was
94. It was kind of my first main
job out of college.
I went to school for social work. So
I got a job and a group home
for adolescent girls and Scott worked was my
coworker.
We worked they they referred to it as
the mom pop shift because we,
had the shift where the kids came home
from school, bed dinner, you know, homework and
got him ready for bed. So we
we got a along well as coworkers and
Was was it always was it always a
Like, yeah. I've heard you describe it as
the mom and pox shift before. Is it...
Did it? Did did it have to be
a man and a woman? Like, that's kinda...
No. No. Not. No. Was. And and actually
there was... I mean, because we didn't work
all 4, you know, weekdays together. So, you
know, it it wasn't... It was just kind,
but that's just still how they referred to
it just because know, but kinda taking the
role parents during that shift. So,
the note wasn't always a man in the
woman, but... Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
You,
so, yeah. And
there was always, you know, kind of a
physical attraction.
We would...
Touch fingers exchanging the master key and there'd
be a tingle, and
so we just... And we we really gel
really well together and and
kind of how we how we kind of
parent, You know, that was kind of the
job was to to, you know, your your
counselor, but you're also
acting as the parent, and just got really
along really well. Had shared good interest together.
He was kinda of my my dream guy,
he was kind of a bad boy with
a good heart.
He
had long, like, look care almost down to
his waist curly and
he rode motorcycles
and
but... Yeah. We just
had a lot of fun together.
We would when we then then did start
dating, and
we would go camping in the boundary waters
for a couple weeks at a time,
Just enjoyed each other's company. There wasn't
alcohol wasn't really a part of our... We
were more likely to smoke a little weed
than we were to drink.
So it wasn't really a part of who
we were.
But we just had fun together and
So... And, I mean, we would have
hours long phone conversations, and he I'm from
a big family. And he would have spreadsheets
of
who, you know, like a family trees that
he would draw out as we were talking.
I didn't know this at the time, but
he would just ask questions, and so he
was kinda getting the information
preparing, I think. So...
That's great. What what a interesting start to
the relationship?
It's too bad every couple doesn't get a
chance to work the mom and pop ship,
shift at a girl's home. You get to
practice parenting. You get to practice c parenting
and see what kind of person
you're getting yourself involved with. So that's that's
really cool.
Yep. That's what I thought too.
Yeah.
So,
little weed, maybe on the camping trips, but
no alcohol yet. Well, first, before we get
into alcohol, how did you transition from
from that, you know, the social worker role
to
owning businesses.
Well, we were kinda tired of living and...
Poverty particularly. So okay. Moments.
We started the business part time when we
were both still working for full time
And we actually,
became business partners before we got married,
and then
got married and still were working
I kinda trans... He stayed at the group.
I kinda transitioned I I tried to tried
my hand in real estate me.
And and ended up at a, like, software
company doing kinda tech writing and stuff.
So...
And that was when we probably started our
family then. We had my,
my first son, my oldest son was born
in 2001.
And
at that point,
Scott became a stay at home dad.
Any work of business full time. I was
still working to have health insurance and and
that. So... And then I think it was
about a year when my son was year
old when I was able to... We kinda
took the leap and I quit to, and
and we just worked the business from full
time from then on
And who it... The business is not related
to social work. It's not related to real
estate. It's related related to your and passion
of animals. Right. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. Very cool.
Right. So that is quite quite leap. But,
obviously,
it worked out and
you know, the business took off and was
successful. Yeah?
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it took time and
hard work. But, yeah. I mean, right now
and we started a second business and, like,
thousand 5,
had 2 little ones at that point.
And
I started a manufacturing business too. So we
have employees. We have... Yeah. So it's it's
worked out well. It's it's something we both
enjoyed and
and he... He's, you know, kind of always
been an entrepreneur
from
grade school days when he used to
take copper wire from his garage and sell
it to kids at school whatever for reason
or or he would buy both bubble gum
and then go sell it at lunch for,
you know, however very much a piece and
and make money. So, yeah, Kinda got trouble
for that. But... But... Yeah. So we all
had that... We had a kid that did
that with with Ta, the spicy chip. First,
he did it with doughnuts.
But... And that is it with the spicy
chips some the school bus. But his brother
would eat too many of the if buy
a big bulk bag. It's chips and his
younger brother would eat half of them before
he could sell them and so that just
became a big big fight in the house.
But I love the entrepreneurial spirit. That's great.
Along with that kind of
entrepreneurial spirit and the leap of faith
and, you know,
starting businesses,
That's... It it is hard work as you
mentioned and eventually was successful for you, but
it's also really stressful.
Was... Yeah. How how did both of you?
How did you and Scott deal with the
stress of the unknown, especially now you got
kids. Right?
Right.
Well, I think we, you know, we had
our third
little girl in 2006,
and that was that completed our our kid
family. And,
I think
really the first really stressful time was probably
2008
during the economic downturn
in o 8, and
that was... It became really stressful where we
were kind of putting a lot of,
using our credit card balances to to keep
a afloat and and while we kind of
pivoted to to more business to business,
try to, you know, expand in different areas
and things like that. And that was also
kind of the time when
a drink at night to wind down kinda
started for both of us.
Mh. So that was kind of the where
I would say,
any kind of unhealthy
relationship with alcohol started
was during
the the stressful time of the business. And
and, you know, and he
otherwise, his mind didn't shut off.
The kinda keep keep thinking about... It was
hard to get him to step away. From
from work. So...
Yeah.
Very familiar.
With the the chaotic mind that won't shut
off and you. I know Sherry
dinner relate to the idea of,
you know, it's well into the evening, and
I'm still talking about ideas or thoughts. Mh.
It's hard to deal with,
Yeah. It is. Yeah.
Alright. So...
But it's... But so far, it's just a
a drink unwind.
Couldn't possibly be any red flags for you
at this point. Right? This is just were
adults in the is how we is how
we adult. Right?
Right. Yeah. No there really wasn't them. It
wasn't like he us
or either of us were drinking to excess
at that time or anything like that. It
was just... Yeah. Just to be able to
kinda shut your mind off and go to
sleep
Yeah. At night.
So
tell us what happens next? How does it
progress?
Well, I think that
there was time to where where... I think
it got to be more and more for
Scott.
He had some sci back pain
that he kinda self medicated for too, even
as much sorry get up in the night
and and drink a couple beers because it
hurt,
you know, be able to go back to
sleep, which is, you know, again,
unhealthy coping.
Mechanism, but...
So I think that kind of started,
amp up for him, and I really was
not aware. Of that at the time. I
didn't know that he was drinking more and
more.
He... There was a time
now looking back on it, I'm...
It was probably
his first
withdrawal
seizure.
I thought at the time that he fell,
hit his head,
gave himself a concussion and then had a
seizure.
But my thought process now is it was
probably
a seizure and then he fell and hit
his head. Mh. Because III
found him
composing, called the ambulance.
Get he didn't wanna go in the Ambulance,
but he was out of it enough that
they took him,
like, thought member found the ambulance
to the hospital, like, what's going on and
getting there and and they did, you know,
test is, what I'll alcohol was 0,
but he was just shaky still. And he
only had the... All the
Mris and 0 cat scan and stuff to
to make sure nothing more serious was going
on,
but I really think that was probably
the first... And I don't know if that
was maybe 2010, 2011
somewhere in there.
Were... But again, I was clueless to that
that that was going on.
What's really interesting about that is
a lot of people aren't aware, probably lots
of people who listen to this podcast are
aware but a lot of people aren't aware
that alcohol is actually the most dangerous of
the drugs to come off of once you're
physically addicted.
You you don't get withdrawal seizures from, even
heroin or methamphetamine. This is a
alcohol specific thing, and So quitting cold turkey
or going through long periods of sobriety or
any really period of sobriety. Once your body
is dependent on the substance.
Is really dangerous and leads to the kind
of seizures you're talking about. What's interesting though
is that,
you know, so you're aware that he's having
a drink or 2 at night. But you're
not aware that he has formed this dependency
because he's in addition to what you're seeing.
He's also sneak drinking like you mentioned for
a little bit of medicinal drinking in the
middle of the night, that kind of thing?
Mh. Yeah. Just stuff I wasn't aware of.
So... Yeah. So yeah look I
when you look back, were you able to
piece together how much he was he was
drinking?
Or is that still kind of a mystery
for you? That's the kind of a mystery.
I really don't
know for sure. Because, again, I... This is
all kind of... I wasn't anything at the
time that I
realized was going on.
So I didn't
didn't understand the the reasons I just thought,
yeah, He had a concussion. That was that
was it. So
I mean, the the... I just think that's
really important to highlight because
the trauma that you've experienced
is twofold to me. There's the trauma that's
obvious. There's the stuff that you you did
realize you saw with your own eyes. And
then there's just the the unknown that
the une
experiences that you struggled through
that at the time anyway, and and like
we I said even now, You're not sure
exactly how much he was drinking or where
or how or when?
So I just think it's a it's a
The unknown it can be as trauma
as the known can be as well because,
you don't know what... You know, you can
only
play with the cards you're you're dealt and
there's stuff going on that you're not aware
of. So I just think that's really, really,
really difficult.
You, when it it became... I became more
and more aware Time Yeah So and, you
know, but, yeah, At first, I wasn't. So...
Talk talk about that. When did, when was
it not just a drink her 2 at
night and then hit and drink he weren't
aware of? What what happened to kinda bring
it down to the light?
I well,
don't know what... Well, I think that my
my daughter was my youngest was was diagnosed
on the autism spectrum
when she was
5 or 6 years old. And I think
that hit him really hard and then I
knew that he was kinda drinking more and
more. It wasn't always
a lot. I think the pink drinks got
bigger, like, in bigger and bigger glasses and
stronger and stronger
for him. Now and
he
there was... I know there was a time
on a family vacation.
Where it really kind of all
got really bad where it was hard liquor
because it it was normally a beer drinker.
But there was we were on vacation. So,
of course, you're gonna break out the hard
liquor, and there was a an incident,
at night
where where
it was close to violence
And I ended up, you know, leaving before
sleep on the couch,
and in the next morning, he had no
recollection. At all.
So this was kind of the first
venture into the rules, you know,
they're gonna have that school that they're
there's no more hard hard liquor that's just
not acceptable.
So
yeah. That was... And that way, you know,
as you might expect, there sometimes there was
some hard liquor and it was
that he didn't think I would know, or
if I happen to have wine in the
house, he would, drink... You know, drink that.
Like... There was never
you would never have leftover wine.
That was always gone by the morning. Our,
or, you know, a Christmas... It's Christmas time.
We have to
have bailey or... You know, there was there
was times when It was
exceptions to our our our rules,
How much did he involve you in the
rule making? Like, was he telling you what
he was doing or asking your opinion?
No. That was actually more my rule of
of the hard liquor rule because because...
Yeah. I got... But so his were more
like,
like, he was cutting back. And he was
his his quitting plan could have lasted, you
know, a century
because he was cutting back and cutting back,
but it never really... It was more like
how much do you think I'm drinking? Okay.
That's...
I don't know. It it wasn't real. It...
So the rules we put around are drinking.
The rules for alcoholic. They're all sadly rules
that are made to be broken.
So
are you
confronting him a lot at this or at
this point are you Are you telling him,
hey, I think you've got a problem. Is
he acknowledging that? Or is there denial involved?
Yeah. There's... I mean,
I think it...
There's only so much denial you can do.
And and... Yeah, This is where the
different plans for cutting back,
and and kind of admin admitting that he
had a problem, but but more, like, well,
if this is what you want me to
do,
Okay. Then I'll do it. You know, I
don't have a problem with that When in
Melanie, he did have a problem with that.
I mean, because
I remember 1 of the attempts was
to do 1 beer an hour,
and
and, you know, so... And even that,
we were... Every everybody
this is 1 of the
traumatic events too.
We were watching
movie. It was called
I think World war z,
something like that. And the the premise of
the movie was some kind of
illness that people were getting it would turn
him into, like, a Zombie. Right? But the
first part of it was
having a seizure was how that was when
they were infected. So me and my 2
sons and him were watching this movie would
be he doing this 1 beer Howard thing.
And all a sudden, he's beside me shaking,
and I'm think we're thinking oh, come on
dad, you know.
Knock it off. Yes pretend. He's playing up
the zombie thing. Right. I thought about what
it was, but no. It was a seizure.
And
just from cutting back,
So it had to be... Wow.
A lot more than that. So that even
that just cutting back not not going to
nothing or not, you know,
2 and 8, whatever. Nothing like that. It
was just 1 an hour.
Wow. Mh.
And it was... Yeah. We never finished watching
that movie. So
It was... Yeah. But... Yeah. Just... So... Yeah.
There was several attempts over the year. So
he did... Yes, say,
there was a
problem, but he wouldn't... He didn't like the
term alcoholic. He didn't wanna label himself that,
that was... That was never something he really
accepted, I guess, and
as a
I don't know. I guess, just because he
didn't wanna announce the world. I'm in alcoholic
and you know... Like, like, like, the the
Aa beginning of the beating is. My name
is Got alcoholic that was never gonna
never gonna be. So...
Mh. So was it you know, obviously, you've
got these traumatic experiences, but was it also
causing
friction in the marriage where you fighting a
lot?
What... It was it just hard to
See on things?
Yeah. It was... I mean, we still...
You know, there was things that we did
See on.
Still... I mean, kind of the the big
things. But
but, yeah, there was a lot of...
I don't know if it was just caused
by
me wanting him to cut back, and that
was what caused a lot of the friction.
But there also were things that
but
he
it made him irritable it started to change
him, and and and it he was not
being as nice to the kids and
It's was like, we couldn't do anything right
to please him.
So there was
there was conflict, and I mean, I know
I've talk to you guys before about the
lawn. I I was never so tired of
hearing about the damn lawn. It's grass. I
really don't care if it's
too longer. It's not mode. Right. And and,
you know, So, yeah, it did just be...
He it started to change him who he
was. His personality
was just not
the
loving,
you know, caring person
that
I met and fell in love with.
But You've Yeah. You've you've still got this
stressful career thing going on.
You know, when you talk about it now,
you've got a lot of clarity
And that's that's great. That's really important for
you
as you work through all this stuff that
you've gotta work through. But at the time,
did you have this level of clear... Like,
did... Should you say this is the alcohol
that's changing my husband? Or did you wonder
Is it the stress? Is it the alcohol?
Is it the business? Is it is he
growing older? Like, did you did you understand
what was happening in the moment?
I really think I did because that was
the change
that,
and and
you know, there there was a point where
you could
see it in him. You could... Like, it
was like a switch when he... When it
was drinking for. I mean I... There was
a time where I count. And I knew
how much. But after a while, I could
tell by the behavior, what beer he said.
Or at least if he was over this
many,
So it it I I know there was
stress
in the business, and that's kind of 1
of 1 of the things
because there's always you no, would you ever
think about why I drink that I heard
that a lot. Sure. Have you ever asked
yourself why it is I drink and it
was partially,
you know, because I've changed as, you know,
I'm
not a, I guess, a 24 year old
girl anymore.
And and they also, you know, we blame
did blame a lot on the business stress,
and being responsible had when we had employees
was being responsible for other people.
And and have you ever considered that. Well,
yeah. Kind of since I'm I'm in this
with you too, you know, but but I
think he claimed a lot of that stress
was was almost like it was only his
stress, not Not us as a team.
So
but,
I just wanna point out, Late. You mentioned,
like, he was displeased with your lawn service.
He had fired several people because they wouldn't
do the lawn right. He was getting g
you with the kids. When you knew when
you met him that he was this big
soft, and he really did probably care about
these young ladies that you worked with in
this group home. So you saw all these
changes. And I feel like it can be
so easily dismissed and thrown back on
the partner,
when you see it's the alcohol, You see
the changes.
And but they're so small. And when people
are, like, you know, arguing to keep alcohol
in their life, and then they throw it
back on the partner, what, you've change because
now you're a ag, you don't, you know,
it's hard for
you in that situation a lot of times
to see that.
And to kind of break through that gas
lighting. Yeah. And that's why when people will
ask
Matt and myself, like, well, how do you
know if alcohol is a real problem.
And and you were mentioning, like, you guys
agreed on a lot of the big stuff,
but it was, like the little stuff and
the day to day stuff and those day
to day actions and interactions with
the family.
Like, those are the things that they may
not you know, be big important stuff, but
they're breaking down the the foundation of the
family.
So alcohol is directly influencing that. And I
just wanna point that out because I think
that a lot of people dismiss that. Like,
well, it's not so bad. It's not so
bad. It doesn't have to be major bad.
But, I mean, if it's breaking up, you
know, foundational pieces of your relationship and the
family. And you see that they're so particular
that nothing can please them.
And that's that. Well, maybe a step. Part
she said a part you said about,
not being as good with the kids. Yeah
I mean, that's
That's gotta be just heartbreaking for you. Mh.
I'm just think that... I just don't know.
I just wanna point that out if you're,
like, so many people can easily dismiss and
and and then it gets gas lit back
us. Well what's the stress of the business.
Well, everything is stressful if you really let
it get stressful.
And and again, he was asking, will you
do wanna know why I drink? No. Tell
me, please share and open up because so
many of the alcoholic or
they... Or addicts. They just, you know, medicate
away their pain and stress and they don't
wanna open up and talk.
So
that's
That's just a sucky situation. Did... Did Scott
say what I would say a lot to
Sherry, which is,
you know, you said that he said you
changed.
I would tell Sherry, you know, used to
drink with me, and you don't drink as
much anymore. So I'm not... You know, my
drinking hasn't changed. My drinking. I've always been
a big drinker.
And you're the 1 who who has pulled
away and stopped. Did did you feel pressure
like that?
There was a little bit of that, like,
like,
used to... You used to drink too. We'd
have fun together
Yeah. And... But, you know, there just came
a point where it wasn't fun anymore because...
Yeah.
You know, it wasn't my goal to drink
until I passed out, which seemed to be
your goal. And
so so, yeah. I did hear some of
that, but we didn't, you know, it does
he couldn't quite
do that because
we didn't start out as big drinkers at
either 1 of us.
But
how how did the relationship change
with the kids? You
mentioned that he wasn't as good to the
kids
but were were you worried about the kids?
Yes. I was.
I mean, it I mean, I mean, when
they were little, he was great. And y
they would...
He would
after
they get home from school and he'd come
out and wrestle on the floor with them
and
just
playing out in the yard and doing all
this stuff, but he just kinda stopped
doing anything with him and it was any...
Any... And it was like... Nothing they did
was ever good enough. Too, which was really
worrisome for me
for their self esteem,
because you want your parents to think you're
good at things and and
not a loser, I guess. But, yeah, I
think he just... It just was...
And they're good kids, and I and I
would I would defend... Jump in to defend
them, and then it was. You always take
their side. Well.
I guess because you're wrong.
So
because he just... You know, I say, like,
with the...
Even with... Because that was when 1 of
the things was the voice started taking over
mowing the lawn because
nobody would you couldn't get service to stay
because of how picky he was. So I
don't make you guys fine. They're doing good.
They're
there. They're good kids. So
So, of course, I defended them, and that...
But then that became a
point of contention too.
So
did the kids grow closer to you over
this time? Like, did... Were you there shield?
Did they kinda
yeah and help to you?
Yes. Especially... It might... Well my in the
the boys were older, so they kinda
went just... I mean, they were probably
going on teenagers when when it started to
get really bad. So they would just go
away, you know, And the boys would just
hang together.
But they were you know, this go in
their room or at a different part of
the house that was
not occupied by him. But my daughter really,
well, she had trouble with, you know, not
having consistency
in the first place. So it really really
bothered her and she would... Yeah. I was
her
her rock
and
he would all complain. She doesn't listen to
me. I'm like, well, sometimes you're nonsensical.
You, you know,
It's hard to tell her... Yeah. She has
to listen to ed when sometimes she's ranting
about.
I don't know. Stupid stuff. So
Yeah. So she and she kinda I'm sure
she could tell, you know, when it was
he was too far gone, and she would
just tell him no.
And
and it kinda carried on in other areas
too where she probably should have been listening
to him, but he like I said if
it's not consistent
Yeah. You can't really blame her. So...
Oh, yeah.
Did it did it get to the point
where you started thinking about whether it was
best to stay and keep keep going down
this path or whether
you know, leaving or divorce might be in
your future? Did did you entertain those thoughts?
Yeah. I think everybody that's in
the situation and at least entertain those thoughts.
It didn't seem...
I I didn't wanna give up. I didn't...
I wanted it to work and and
he
it was... When things did start to kinda
get
bad and bad and bad, then it would
be... Okay. I'll quit now, and he would
make a attempts.
But it was never
he never wanted to,
like, get professional help and, actually, I... There...
Well
somewhat. I mean, he went to to... Through
medical detox where he would at least get
help for... But, you know, it might be
just a couple days. And then
he's coming home and it's
hallucinations
and
just scary times. So
but
so especially but those times, I was even
more afraid for the kids too,
just because of what they were seeing, which
was scaring me, so I'm sure they were
terrified.
And... But, like, III wanted it to work.
I wanted to
to stay better,
but it
just never got there.
Did it become a predictable cycle? Like, if
you would go to detox docs.
I'm sure there was some relief for you
during the couple of days while he was
gone. But then,
I mean, did... How did you balance hope
with
with pessimism because you've seen it before, Did
you... When he would come back? Did you
think of, but, you know, maybe we'll have
a few days or a few weeks, and
then it's gonna... We're gonna be off the
rails again. Does that feel night.
It it the the first time was really
bad, and
because that was, like 2 days Day detox,
I think he made maybe a week or
10 days. After he was out, and that
was it.
And then
I think the the... At kind of the
next time. I would... I said I'm... You
can't come back
here unless it's been a longer time and
that he stayed in the hospital 5 days
that time. And then
he went or 6 months that time.
So
that... And that was great. It was...
I thought,
we were on the track to get better.
And
but it was just white knuckle sobriety. It
wasn't
even even just that, though it was still
better because at least he wasn't going off
our ranch and
You, he was more present for me and
the kids,
but it was still not. Right, which I
didn't expect it to be right right away.
But at... But when he started, you know,
I don't know, maybe 3 months in, started
talking about Oh, 0, eventually, I'll be able
to have a beer
to grill out or have a beer on
the weekends, or but it won't be like
before.
And as we all know that never works
out.
Yeah. So at 6 months, yeah, he
just... It was within
probably within 2 weeks, it was right back
to
just as bad if not worse than it
had been before.
So...
Did... So you you said... Other than the
professional help that he would get with detox.
He didn't really have a program, No aa,
no.
No, rehab facility.
Did he talk to you about what early
sobriety was like during that 6 months? Did
you talk about? The struggles or anything like
that? Or was he pretty quite quite good?
He... Yeah. He was pretty just stuck to
himself,
he kinda took took back up some of
of his hobbies that, you know, he had
stopped doing,
because he's was really into plants and
started kinda doing some of that stuff, but
he didn't... He was just quiet. He didn't
really talk to me about it. No. Yeah.
He he would tell me it's not a
big deal.
Yeah.
You know, it's it's not a big deal.
I can do this.
And I used to drink. I'm sober. Just
kinda
That's it. Yep. What it is. Yep. Boy
that I do that a lot.
I really would have liked to have
Known, Scott, I think we had a lot
in common.
Well, it's was probably so hard that he
wasn't opening up to you
about the struggles when he was even drinking
and saying, do you even wanna into why
drink because you were talking about how you
guys would go away for 2 weeks in
the boundary waters in camp, and you had
all these deep long conversations I know there
was a writing that you shared with our
group
that
still just touches me, but you guys had
these really intense talks about, like, life and
questioning the universe and things sort of like
that. I'm sure, It's was probably really hard
to be so shut off from him
when the alcohol took hold and then even
in this time of sobriety when he's white
knuckle and you're, like, when I can be
your partner and try to help, at least
understand or you can get it off your
chest. He's just still closed off.
And again she lost very
only.
Yeah. I lost my best friend,
long before,
Long before the alcohol took,
I lost my best friend.
Yeah.
Yeah. Took took him before he died for
sure.
Wow. Yep.
So what what was that, like for you?
When we when we talk with people about,
you know, emotional detachment,
sometimes people read about it or they listen
to what attachment is on a podcast, and
it's something that they try to implement.
For Sherry,
that wasn't what happened. She
she pulled the away to protect herself to
protect our kids and because she had tried
everything else. And
and it it was kind of a latched
last ditch effort.
Did was was that? Kinda of what happened
for you? Did you did you set out?
I'm gonna intentionally detach? Because I've learned what
this is or did
or did it just evolve?
No. I... Yeah. It didn't I didn't
learn the term detachment, but I did kind
of learn a little bit more. I...
Started to research a little bit more
just about
alcohol use disorder
in general and, you know, kind of
different things from different places like, that I
knew that it wasn't me. And none this
is my fault even though I might be
getting blamed with it, it's not my fault,
and
kind of once I got to that mindset,
I was like, I'm not taking the blame
for this anymore.
And
and and and that I need to protect
myself from that bling,
and that was kind of, I guess, you
know, the the start of my detachment was
I'm gonna walk away. If you're gonna talk
like that to me, I'm walking away.
If you're gonna try to start to fight
with me, I'm not dealing with you, we
can talk when you're over. And so that
was kind of how
my...
You know, I didn't know I guess that
it was called detachment.
But that was just... I'm not dealing with
this. I've done dealing with it, and you
keep saying you're cutting back and you're gonna
stop. And nothing ever happens with it, and
I just not gonna take it anymore. I'm
not gonna take the blame. I'm not gonna
deal with your moods.
I'm just gonna go over here and do
my own thing, and you can do you.
I mean, if... And, you know, if funny
thing, he... You know, like, some... I'd I'd
started taking trips with my best friend, and
it was funny because it was that it
was his idea because he was the... As
time went on. He became more and more
of a home body. He didn't wanna go
do anything
because he wanted... That was too far away
from the refrigerator and the beer.
So
he suggested, you know, both your friend go
on a vacation. And so at at first,
I was like, nah, I'm not gonna do
that. You come with me and No. No.
I'm not going. You might as will go
with her. So
it was his idea. And then when we
started making a plan,
He was, like, I can't believe you're doing
this. Mh
I can't believe you're leaving me.
And I'm like, this is your
have an idea in the first place, what
you mean, and he's like, well, I didn't
know you were really gonna do it, Like,
okay. Well, I am.
And,
you know,
So, yeah,
It it... And it saved my sanity. It
really did to have
things to look forward to where I could
get a break from it.
Because I think that's really important.
Just...
Because I I wasn't ready to leave.
I didn't... I didn't wanna give up hope.
And
I had to have some kind of recharge.
So...
Yeah. I mean, it's self preservation. I mean,
everything that you're describing,
I I think you made all the right
moves
what's what's interesting about when you reach the
end of your open, you need that recharge
is you have to do it for yourself.
And it sounds like that's exactly what you
were doing. You were doing it because you
needed it.
But kind of a as a a side
case from that, it can have
really 1 of 2 impacts on the drinker,
it can
scare us into sobriety. To what I've long
said is that Sherry detachment was part of
the pain con con,
that resulted in my sobriety. In addition to
her detachment, there was also
depression and anxiety
that
I finally started to understand. You know, I
was using
alcohol to medicate the depression and anxiety. So
it took me a long time to understand
that while it would alleviate
the depression and anxiety in the short term.
It was also the cause of the
depression and anxiety in the long term. And
so all these things kinda came together
to cause a realization for me that sobriety
was my only choice.
That isn't always how it works.
As you detached,
Did he
did it did the frequency with which he
would try periods of sobriety increase?
Or did he did he drink more?
Or did it not affect him at all?
Did? Did he just continue on aggression unrelated
to your detachment?
I think at first, it kind of...
At least it it it
caused him to say.
He was going to be cutting back.
I don't know that he ever really did
all that much.
But then as as time on, it seemed
like it was more just his an excuse
to isolate
and drink.
And
and kind of again, kind of blame shift.
Well,
you're not there for me.
So it was it was kind of a,
you know, a pity party. I'm gonna drink
then
because you're not
paying the attention to me that I want
you to.
So, yeah. I didn't I don't I don't
think he had any more
serious
attempts at sobriety
after the, I started really detach.
No.
Yeah. What 1 of the biggest lessons I
had to learn
was that if I wasn't someone Sherry wanted
to be around,
just because we're married, just because we had
this piece of paper that said we're bonded
together. Doesn't mean I can blame her the...
For the fact that she does wanna be
around me.
I I... And I didn't understand this in
active addiction or an early sobriety. This this
is something that took me years to understand.
But
what I needed to do in the moment
even though I was incapable was become a
person that she wanted to be around, not
beat her over the head with her marriage
license because she had agreed to be around
me. And I mean, that is such a
common
a common thing. I'm drinking more because
you're not hanging out with me or because
you're not having sex with me or because
you're not nice to me.
Well, the be a person that it would
be good to be nice to, and
and and that'll come, you know, that... You'll
get what you want if you deserve it,
basically.
And
you know, we... That that is an elusive
concept
to us alcoholic certainly during
and even early this society.
Makes too much sense. Yeah.
Yeah.
It really does.
Okay. Can you
walk us through the end as the progression
continued and
and his alcohol took him.
Well,
got it's
stop.
Sorry. It is thunder here.
Something barking at thunder.
Yeah.
It seemed like it went I was for
a really long time because I mean,
he was
lost a lot, a lot a lot of
weight.
He
really didn't eat
anymore,
and that was, you know, was,
and again, kind of
part of my detachment was
I'm gonna cook, but we're gonna eat. And
if you eat u eat, and if you
don't, you don't. And I, you know, or
if you're passed out, at meal times. I'll
try to wake you up, but I... You
know, what am I supposed to do here,
you know, put ice cubes down your back.
Even then I don't know if you were
to up. But, but, yeah. So... And
I
he blamed on, you know, I have stomach
issues and all this and that, but it
was just... I think his
his alcohol
increased, and his body couldn't even handle the
food. I mean, he... If he did eat
there was times where he couldn't keep things
down.
So I think a lot of it was
he would just avoid it because he knew
he wasn't gonna be able to
digest it anyway, because his
body was kind of rejecting anything except, you
know, he was able to drink the beer
and not not throw that up, but anything
else was kind of
not not capable
processing for whatever reason.
And the man never went to the doctor.
So I really don't know
you know, what that meant
as far as medically, but I could just
see it happen, I mean, he was
it it it seems
as a non medical professional. It seems pretty
clear that the
the alcohol,
he was drinking his calories and that the
the digestive issues that he had were caused
by the alcohol? But could he see that
at all or were they 2 separate things
to him?
No. Separate because he always had like, acid
reflux ge, you know, issues so he would
just blame it on that at his stomach.
It was never
No. It was never because of the alcohol
It was a pre preexisting
condition, you know, Before alcohol. So no
of
of Cognitive dissonance. It's amazing. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
So... But, yeah... So he... His health kept.
I mean, he was
just getting frail almost almost. So he was
probably... I think the last time, I knew
how much he weighed. He normal. He's 05:10
like, probably 1 8... Between 1 80 and
1 90 was in the kind of a
normal weight for him, and he was 01:51
40
the last time I knew.
So
just kind of wasting the wasting away.
And
so, you know, that kind of, like I
said, seemed like over maybe a year or
2 even where it kept getting worse and
worse and worse.
And then
like I said, he never would go to
a doctor, so I I don't really know
exactly all those going out him. But Know,
I can kinda go to the last,
last weekend,
because he he would kind of, like, when
he when he was getting sick and sometimes
that would kind of make him go into
the D too because
there was times where he couldn't even keep.
You know, the beer down, and then it
would kinda send him into withdrawals
and that, you know, it it 1 of
the withdrawal symptoms is throwing up. So it
just, like, he couldn't
he couldn't manage that, you know,
with the
with issues he was having.
So there it was a... I think, it
was a Sunday when he was
sick, and he... It was always the flu,
so I don't know if it really was
the flu or if it was something else,
But in any case, he was he's was
not doing well,
and
it was kinda nursing him all day Sunday,
and into Sunday night and overnight, I might
have slept an hour or 2. Just trying
to... Because he was I'm steady on his
feet, so I didn't wanna, like, up walking
around by himself.
And
he was just really ill.
And
also
cognitive
seemed
not right, also,
I'm just not thinking right.
And
So we did that all, you know, pretty
Sunday all of gate into Monday
and
did you suggest did you suggest medical help
for him? I know Oh, yes. Know him.
Rejects it. Right Yeah. Okay. Correct. I begged
and pleaded, and, I know from past experience
but he didn't have to go if I
called.
He could just tell him no. I don't
need to go. I mean, they might come
and check him out at the house, but
he's not... They're not gonna force him into
an do. So
I kinda knew it was
futile to to try to force him.
But I, you know,
all all night all day on Monday. Well,
Monday he seemed to start to feel better
on Monday. So I, you know, I wasn't
quite as worried.
He's was still a little un steady on
his feet. We found a walker that we
had at the house he was using that,
then he was able to... He was, know,
able to, like, drink water and and sew
it and keep it down.
So I thought he was kinda bouncing back.
And
09:00 that night after a bed been up
pretty much the whole night before? I said
I got... I gotta go to bed. Are
you coming to bed? Yeah. I'll be there
in a few. So
I went to bed.
Next thing I knew it was midnight threw
on the light in the room.
And
was going through to the bathroom and I
was, like, 8 hon come into bed. Like,
yep, I'll be there in a minute. I
said, okay, babe. See in a few, and
I fell back to sleep.
And
the next thing I knew was
my oldest son
who his bedroom was in the basement. He
was screaming
from the kitchen.
Mom, mom,
come quick. I'm gonna call 911.
So
I'm up out of bed.
And ran out to the kitchen,
and
he's laying on the floor.
He had his
hands,
fist both hands fist up by his chest.
And
and knew... That was when he hit... When
he seated, that was typical.
Of what he would look like.
And I ran up to him,
and knee down, and he was cold.
And knew was gone.
And I just was screaming and no. No.
No. Is
the last of the hope.
Died there.
And my son's on the phone
with the 911 operator and
my daughter and son, other son came out,
of their bedrooms, and I asked him to
take her back through her bedroom, I didn't
want her to.
Have that memory, although she still does.
And then
my son put them his
meal down and started doing Cpr
compressions.
That's it, oh god. And he's gone and
he's like, I know, mom. I know. Just
go. Just go.
Because it was that with the worst.
There was nothing.
Nothing he could do, but he was following
their directions.
And,
yep. That was the
first day of this half of my life.
So,
I just... I went out
tried to comfort my daughter told her to
call our friend.
Just started calling people. It was just it
was
it was, like, time was rushing and standing
still all at the same time.
Just unbelievable.
No.
Wow. Even with the
the warning signs and how
he had been the weekend leading up and
you pleading for him to get medical health,
you you still don't think it's gonna happen.
You still can't even imagine that it could
happen.
No. No.
And it was it was... Yeah. I don't...
I mean, in those
hours from when I went to bed that
night,
I got that call in the morning.
It was
just the evidence of a chaotic mind was
just everywhere.
A package of nuts from the freezers,
filled all over the kitchen floor.
The dish washing soap was in the refrigerator
refrigerator
there was a butane torch out on the
on the counter. There was some ramen, which
he hated
like, on a in the in us on
a pan by the this, you, on a
stove, it was just...
And we continued to find just
weird stuff throughout the house in the garage,
he was just everywhere
leaving chaos behind, and, you know, what I'm
what a metaphor.
Yeah.
Absolutely evidence that
even when he still had a few breaths
left, he wasn't he wasn't with you. He
wasn't with us.
Amazing. Yeah. So sad.
So you mentioned,
you know, making phone calls.
What was
besides what's happening in your house besides
you and your kids.
What does other family know,
you know, beforehand? Like, was this a shock
or obviously, it's a shock book to what
degree was it a shock to the rest
of the family to find out that's got
it passed.
I think it was a shock to everyone.
My
side of the family
didn't really
know anything
as far as
his drinking problem.
I still... I mean, when when my my
mom and sister lived closed there, about, 20
miles, 20 minutes away. And they were over
and
Karen said what happened, and I just said
he drinks too much, and he would never
go to the doctor,
and I kinda left it at that. Which
is true and
yeah. So... And I I don't know how
much anybody else knows or has gas. I
guess they really haven't talked to them about
it.
It was... But, you know, it's cause of
death was was a head injury due to
an all seizure with was a head injury
was the kind of the official
cause of death.
And
as far as his family members,
he has he's 1 of
for there's 5 boys. So there's 4 of
brothers
and
2 of them too... I I haven't... 1
of them were kinda that in
not on speaking terms,
but of the other 3, 2 of them
new and 1 of them was shocked that
that'd be had a drinking problem at all.
But they all know now.
Or heat. The 1 that didn't know knows
now too. So...
But didn't... Yeah. Did they did they know
because
he had con in them or did they
know because they had seen him at family
gatherings?
Because of... Yeah, How his his behavior,
1 of them both 2 of 1 that
we're not speaking With and and 1 other
he we worked with for a while. Worked
for us.
So I think he kinda
caught on at, you know, that point
and, yeah. And what what his brothers told
me, I could always tell where I talked
him on the phone
if he, you know, just be a he
would, you know, kinda repeat himself or ask
questions that he'd already asked or those kind
of things. So it was just catching clues
that way.
But... Yeah, it...
But the other 1 that you talked to
all the time didn't
didn't catch on at all. So
probably that I closest to.
The est with the 1 brother that was
not post
modem. Like, that wasn't that... He... You know,
he wasn't blaming you for Scott's death. That
was something that happened prior to him passing
her. Yeah. That was that was... He was
a prior business partner in the second business,
and, yeah. We bought him out and that
didn't, I guess, didn't
Yeah. There's something totally different. Sure. Well, the
reason I...
Yeah. The the reason I ask and the
reason I think that is important is because
it's heartbreaking
But
we've seen a number of cases where,
after the the drinker dies,
the
there's a big rift in the family between
the in laws and the the surviving partner.
What has your experience been, you know, save
that 1 relationship that has nothing to do
with Scott.
Do you feel any blame coming your way
or are they supportive?
They're very supportive. I don't feel any blame
at all? Good.
Good.
That's that's great to hear.
So no blame
but
1 of the things that's
really tragic about
situations
where a drinker passes away is
you've explained your story and you've explained it
at a great level of detail
Sherry, and I have known you for quite
a while now. But even if you're just
a first time listening hearing the story for
the first time,
I think the unanimous opinion of our listeners
would be that you absolutely did everything you
could,
you were trying your best to your family,
but also to hold your family together,
you were urging him to seek help,
you were being as helpful as you could
be as well. And then you ultimately did
the right thing
by detach and protecting yourself and protecting your
kids,
and
you know,
and and finding that ability to recharge and
connect with a friend when you could and
and do... So basically,
you know, you're putting the situation that's
un nav, but you still do an excellent
job of navigating it. Even with all that
said, and I think you know that. I
think you know everything I just said on
a conscious level.
Do you still have feelings of
you know, not just grief. Obviously, obviously, you
got grief, but do you have feelings of
guilt
with... And now that Scott's gone?
Yes.
As
much as I can... I tell myself, all
the things that you just said,
there's still
some guilt.
I you know, I don't feel like I
gave up on him, but in some ways,
I guess I did.
The hope was still there, but
it wasn't
as bright
as it started out.
But yeah... There's guilt of the the thoughts
I used to have, of, you know, some...
This something needs to give.
1 of us has gotta go.
Maybe,
it's just everything is so painful that I
just want want something
to end it.
Whatever that means. And there, you know, it's
not a fun thought to have, but maybe
1 of us should die, and then
maybe that, you know, it would make it
better.
And they didn't.
But but the thoughts happened, and III don't
think there's
a lot of us that that probably I
haven't had that leading thought with the thick
of it, but it still doesn't make you
feel real good when it
actually happens, You know? Yeah.
But and then all go through, could I...
Is there some way... Some I should could
have said that would have made him
get helped.
Even just that day go into the hospital
Is there anything more It could have done.
So you have those thoughts and feelings and
and it does have... There is some guilt
even though I can
rationalize myself that
I don't need to feel guilty,
but it's still there.
Yeah.
Yeah. That
You know, unfortunately,
Sherry, and I have been doing this long
enough that we
we're very familiar with about a dozen cases
where
the alcoholic dies
and we've gotten to no partners and
in that situation. And I I have to
say
that
the
the feeling of guilt afterwards even though it
is not, and I don't mean this is
an insult, and I don't think you'll take
it that But even though it's not logical.
Even though as an outside observer, you look
and say, what on earth is she feeling
guilty about, she gave her everything to this
person in this relationship and this family.
It's it's still universal. Even though it doesn't
make any sense still universal. And the other
thing that I wanna
just
drive... The point I wanna drive home.
You mentioned those feelings of something's gotta change.
What if what if 1 of us just
died,
that is also
a very universal
feeling among the loved ones of alcoholic. And
it's 1 of those things that you keep
hidden away and you think
I can't let anyone know that I'm... I've
entertain these thoughts. Not that you ever gonna
act dot, You know, nothing nothing like that,
but even that the thought crosses your mind,
because you're in so much pain. And I
think that's important for the drinkers
that listen to this podcast to understand when
you're making rules. And you're trying to figure
it out and, oh, I'm gonna cut back,
and and I'm only gonna drink beer and
I'm not gonna drink hard liquor.
I think for most of us myself, 1000
percent included. I didn't understand the pain I
was putting Sherry and my family through.
I mean, here we are. I'm 7 and
a half months... Yeah. That much. 7 and
a half years sober,
and
we're still... It just deep
in a, a difficult situation with 1 of
our kids who is really struggling
with
the childhood
that was experienced. And so...
And I had no idea. I thought, yeah.
I drink too much sometimes. I gotta I
gotta fix this.
But the the thoughts and the feelings that
you have now, now that he's past are
so similar to the thoughts and feelings, other
people in that situation of hat. And just
this idea that
you occasionally had thoughts of if 1 of
us would die, it would... Maybe it would
be better. That is
you're not alone. You're in that's so so
common. I mean, you felt that way sometimes
sherry. Right? Yeah. I was like, yeah. Something
big. Something big has got to change to
wake him up, You know, whether it's to
me, or, like, an illness or cancer or
something, like, and you've wanna go there, but
that's what happens.
Because you're, like, there's nothing that I'm saying
on a day to day basis and he
never had a necessarily a rock bottom that
was tragic enough or didn't have a Dui
that he had to do, you know, ahead
of his license taken away for a while
and have to experience that pain. Nothing
nothing bad was really
dramatic enough to make him make that change.
And that's
it came from the detachment and his anxiety
and depression it had to come from within
himself.
I was gonna ask... Like, because I know
that
so many of these deaths are labeled
that have
Their death certificate has nothing to do with
alcohol. Yeah. My brother, he was my ex
brother all the time, a heart attack.
Was
he drank and smoked cigarettes to his death.
You know, nothing was ever
ever recorded. My sister left him because of
that. She could not just watch him waste
away, and it was sucking her life.
Away too.
But was there ever talk in
the autopsy of getting a blood alcohol level
or was he just so sick that he
wasn't able to keep anything down then it
was showed?
Yeah. I'm not... I... I... I'd have to
go back and look, but there was mention
of it
on the ata autopsy,
I think it was called an underlying
like, underlying alcohol
use was with how it was labeled. So
so there is mention, but I think the
main
thing was the... Was, like, a traumatic brain
injury to a fall,
then I think some... I think that's where
they may be... There was some... There was
mention of it, but it wasn't, like,
that's what Killing was not.
Yeah. And and when the deaths and, you
know, it's not that you wanna have the
shock factor
of the amount of deaths that are
you know, calculated
annually by alcohol. Like, it's easy to say,
oh, it's not nearly as many. But you
know that so many of that, you know,
that the fall happened, probably because he was
having a seizure
because of the alcohol and then we can't
really account for that. What's a really important
point. You know?
Melanie knows, we know
because we're in. But but, you know, the
the the causes of death to reported on
death certificates
range from cancer to heart attack to traumatic
brain injury to a whole host of other
things. It's not
It's not like with smoking and lung cancer
that direct correlation. There's literally dozens of causes
of death that that the the people closest
to the person really know it was alcohol.
And it the the death certificate to my
knowledge never says alcohol. I guess if it
was acute
alcohol poisoning, but that's
It almost never says Yeah. Alcohol.
That is tragic. That's a part of the
tragic story. Yeah. And it's not that... I
wanna have that shock factor, but it's just
the way that our society
makes it seem like it's just such a
benign substance Yeah. To put into your body
and just, you know, on a daily basis.
And even in the beginning of your story,
like, it was kind of probably shocking for
you looking back, realizing
his first seizure, and you didn't know how
much he was drinking, but the amount of
years that really was...
That it seemed like it was a short
amount of time.
Before he experiences for seizure.
It
shocked was very shocking. Right? Yeah. And and
I don't you know, if he was extra
sensitive because... Or that's just could happen to
anybody but, yeah, Just... As far as either
he hit it really well. How much he
was thinking it really wasn't that much, but
it went from that to 0 and that
was enough
to cause it. So... And, you know. Yeah.
It's an even just looking back,
it really was
10 or 15 years in total where Jim
was even on the radar
And it killed him. So it's not somebody
that has to be drinking for 30, 40
years, and then it killed It can be
10:15
years, and, you know, really only in the
last 10, I would say was was heavy.
Mh. And day, you know, daily stuff. So,
yeah, It's
it's really a lot more dangerous than than
society wants to
believe.
Yeah.
Yeah. How how are the kids doing? You
you mentioned teenage boys. Are they
are they talking about it? Do they do
they get, you know, do they talk to
counselors? Like, will they open up about how
they're doing?
They they talked to each other on a
lot, but I've... And I've offered, you know,
if they wanna go using for grief counseling
or, you know, they talk to me
but, no. They haven't really done brief counseling
or anything like that, but
I'm pretty open about
and they are too about, you know,
alcohol and and they know the dangers.
But... Yeah. And and they're doing good.
They're both you know, in their young twenties
now.
So
they're they're doing well.
Okay. And my daughter my daughter did go
to do some greek counts and just to
talk to somebody that wasn't me.
And
and she is... She still processes like every
day. And I think
it's it's talked about a lot by her.
Just kinda... If she goes through times where
she's really angry and angry with Daddy and
remembers a lot of the the yelling
and him not bad I'm not being happy
with her, and I had said it's... It
wasn't you, You know?
That he just wasn't happy. It didn't have
anything to do with you. All, but that's...
It takes long time for her or it's
a kind of sink in. So we do
a lot of repetition.
In that way. But but they're they're they're
doing okay. They're doing okay. Well, they're they're
blessed to have someone as wonderful as you
for a mother who's open to continuing to
process and I know what kind of patients
you have. And so
they're very lucky.
Melanie, how...
So
Scott is gone.
And
there is a tension
because, you... You know, alcohol is
alcoholism is something that gets hidden within the
4 walls of the family home so commonly.
But when somebody dies,
everything changes.
You you can't you can't just
deny anymore. How do you handle the tension
between
honesty and authenticity and also, honoring Scott's memory.
Is that hard?
Yes, It is.
Because...
I don't want to
dispatch Scott or give him the label in
death he never accepted for himself
in his life.
So, I guess, I I... And
to be honest, but I guess, like, it
it's easier for me the people that are
a little bit removed. Like, my family hasn't
really asked me directly, like, to what was
going on of that up to this,
except for that my... That first morning with
my sister and what I told her, which,
you know, probably did spread through the family,
but
but, like,
friends that I'm... I've kind of reconnected with,
it's easier to be kind more honest with
them
because they didn't know Scott as well. But
it it is hard
because he was loved by my family, and
he loved my family.
And
so I don't want them to think poorly
of him.
So, yeah, It is hard. It's hard to
to know...
How much people really wanna know.
Yeah. And and how to still honor him,
and that... Because like I said, we he
to love of my life, if I don't...
I... And he always will be,
that didn't change.
So I don't want to
have people think poorly of him.
The bad boy with a good heart.
I love how you describe that.
Yeah.
I I can only imagine how difficult that
is.
So
you just came across the 1 year anniversary
back in June of Scott's passing.
And I know that you had hoped
that there was something kind of
monumental
or... Something kinda magical about the 1 year
mark and that some of the pain would
go away and you'd feel relief, but that
didn't happen.
For you.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
And and what does your ongoing... What does
your work? We talked about the kids, but
what does your work in recovery look like?
Yeah. It was kind of a
the day of his... The anniversary of his
death it kinda kept myself busy when Out
with for lunch with my daughter and a
friend and did some shopping, and and it
was the week after where it was just
I,
burst to crying out of nowhere and
just,
I guess, I don't know if it's a
I thought that once we hit the 1
year, all the first row the first you
know holidays and Great days and all that.
The first were gone,
this should be easier, and then it wasn't.
So it wasn't some kind of magic switch
that just made everything through a better. It
was just
the second, the next time.
We made it a year, but there's still
more to go.
And I I know, I I
met to
plug ec, but that's kind of my
a big part of my
continued processing
is there. The the writing prompts
help me
and just
like, interacting with the people there. It's really
helpful to know
I'm not alone in in different thoughts that
Either had or had.
And
And then I, you know, I have a
really good friend,
that he knows everything, and and we talk
a lot to
she tells me kind of the same things
that you were saying about. There's nothing for
you to feel guilty about. She checks in
with me on how I'm was feeling in
that way quite often. So
she's really good for me too.
So... And And I do talk to the
kids too, not not about
me stuff so much, but about dumb stuff,
and they do ask about me too. So
but, yeah, It's just
I I tried... I had a had... Well,
had a young,
a friend of mine who was widowed even
younger than I was and and she's been
kind of an inspiration to me too,
team said early on, he has to find
the joy in every day, and I I
really try to live like that too.
And do things
that
I enjoy
and
and just live life because
even though he's not here anymore, that's what
he'd want for me. I want for the
kids.
And I I really believe that
he now has clear... Would have that clarity.
And
part of honoring his memory is living our
best lives.
Wow,
so well said,
I think 1 of the reasons that I'm
confident that you're gonna be okay is because
of the way you have
just dove head first
into
being
an authentic and vulnerable people and finding the
connection you need
to work through all of this.
I mean, I don't know why you trust
us and the rest of the group to
the degree that you do. But we are
just blessed that you do and we're better
people for it because
you know, you have shared not only your
experience, but your process and
you have hopefully,
you know, you've gotten some help from it,
but you've given way, way more to our
group. And to Sharing and I personally than
than anything you've gotten from us. So thank
you for trusting us. Thank you for coming
on, and
delivering this message that's painful but needs to
be... Needs to be shared with the world.
So thank you for coming on the intoxicated
podcast guest. We appreciate you. And we love
you Melanie.
Alright. Thank you.
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these
3 resources.
If you love or loved an alcoholic. We
offer support and connection in our echoes of
recovery group. Check us out at echoes of
recovery dot org. If you are a high
functioning alcohol, seeking methods and connection in early
sobriety.
We're ready for you at shout sobriety dot
org.
No matter who you are, the something for
you in our book, sober revolution, evolve into
sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage. Go to
sober revolution dot org. For my wife, Sherry
Bayless, I'm Matt Sal. Thanks for listening to
the intoxicated podcast.
Bayless