1 00:00:09,452 --> 00:00:11,439 Welcome everyone to 2 guys to the Dark 2 00:00:11,439 --> 00:00:13,664 tower came, a podcast where we discuss the 3 00:00:13,664 --> 00:00:16,445 characters and connections in the ever expanding universe. 4 00:00:16,779 --> 00:00:19,893 That revolves around Stephen King's dark tower. I'm 5 00:00:19,972 --> 00:00:21,909 Jay Russo, and I'm Sean. 6 00:00:22,527 --> 00:00:24,443 You can email us at 2 guys dark 7 00:00:24,443 --> 00:00:25,880 tower at g dot com. 8 00:00:26,532 --> 00:00:28,998 To support the show, visit us at patreon 9 00:00:28,998 --> 00:00:30,987 dot com slash 2 guys dark tower. 10 00:00:31,623 --> 00:00:32,817 In this bonus episode, 11 00:00:33,468 --> 00:00:35,934 We'll cover the short story, the last rung 12 00:00:35,934 --> 00:00:37,922 on the ladder found in night shift. 13 00:00:38,638 --> 00:00:39,593 Let's start the show. 14 00:00:40,562 --> 00:00:42,785 A man returns from his sister's funeral to 15 00:00:42,785 --> 00:00:45,032 find a letter from her. He then rem 16 00:00:45,167 --> 00:00:47,232 about an event from their childhood when he 17 00:00:47,232 --> 00:00:47,867 saved her life. 18 00:00:49,473 --> 00:00:51,223 Jam, keeping it a short and sweet. This 19 00:00:51,223 --> 00:00:51,962 was a 20 00:00:53,054 --> 00:00:53,372 short... 21 00:00:54,327 --> 00:00:56,316 Not so sweet. Yeah. A short that's so 22 00:00:56,316 --> 00:00:57,191 sweet, short story. 23 00:00:57,922 --> 00:01:00,332 Parts of it are very sweet, but ultimately, 24 00:01:00,547 --> 00:01:03,570 it is not a sweet story. It's actually 25 00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:05,658 quite sad and It really got me in 26 00:01:05,658 --> 00:01:06,377 the fields, Jay. 27 00:01:07,256 --> 00:01:10,373 Me too. This story had a interesting way 28 00:01:10,373 --> 00:01:12,291 of catching up with you in just a 29 00:01:12,291 --> 00:01:14,536 few pages. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. 30 00:01:15,012 --> 00:01:17,475 So this is 1 of 4 stories in 31 00:01:17,475 --> 00:01:20,652 night shift that was not previously published anywhere 32 00:01:20,652 --> 00:01:22,400 else, so it was collected for the first 33 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,045 time here in night shift, and I also 34 00:01:25,045 --> 00:01:27,919 found out today that night shift is the 35 00:01:27,919 --> 00:01:29,616 first book of Stephen Kings 36 00:01:29,994 --> 00:01:32,011 in which he writes a forward to 37 00:01:32,882 --> 00:01:35,434 and then there's also an introduction by John 38 00:01:35,514 --> 00:01:37,588 D mcdonald. And Jay, I don't know how 39 00:01:37,588 --> 00:01:39,103 many times I've said this on the podcast, 40 00:01:39,502 --> 00:01:41,018 and how many times I told it to 41 00:01:41,018 --> 00:01:41,656 you separately. 42 00:01:42,387 --> 00:01:44,217 But the 1 thing that I love more 43 00:01:44,217 --> 00:01:45,990 than Stephen King Stories 44 00:01:46,524 --> 00:01:48,274 is when Stephen King writes about his own 45 00:01:48,274 --> 00:01:48,592 writing. 46 00:01:49,324 --> 00:01:51,078 I just love it. So the 4 great, 47 00:01:51,477 --> 00:01:53,232 but even more important is the John D 48 00:01:53,471 --> 00:01:55,965 Mcdonald intro. We've talked about John D mcdonald 49 00:01:56,263 --> 00:01:59,030 multiple times before on this podcast and 50 00:01:59,547 --> 00:02:00,663 I've told you what a fan I am 51 00:02:00,663 --> 00:02:02,893 of his Travis Mcgee books. Mh. And we 52 00:02:02,893 --> 00:02:04,327 know King is a fan of John, D 53 00:02:04,566 --> 00:02:05,920 Mcdonald, So it was a pleasure. 54 00:02:06,414 --> 00:02:08,807 To read the John D mcdonald intro night 55 00:02:08,807 --> 00:02:09,844 shift because I think 56 00:02:10,403 --> 00:02:11,063 it really 57 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:11,940 speaks 58 00:02:12,318 --> 00:02:15,042 not only to what a great writer king 59 00:02:15,042 --> 00:02:16,714 is, but why he was so influenced by 60 00:02:16,873 --> 00:02:18,306 Mcdonald why the 2 of them had such 61 00:02:18,306 --> 00:02:19,739 respect for each other. Yeah. 62 00:02:20,375 --> 00:02:22,463 You've talked about how... Much you like John 63 00:02:22,463 --> 00:02:25,900 d Mcdonald many, many times, and I to 64 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:27,977 date have never read any of his work. 65 00:02:28,616 --> 00:02:29,975 Until I read this introduction. 66 00:02:30,628 --> 00:02:31,128 And 67 00:02:31,504 --> 00:02:34,395 between all of your praise and 68 00:02:34,851 --> 00:02:38,060 reading his introduction here, I'm convinced. I definitely 69 00:02:38,197 --> 00:02:39,871 wanna crack open 1 of his books now. 70 00:02:40,284 --> 00:02:40,923 And check it out. 71 00:02:41,882 --> 00:02:44,279 I really like this intro too. There's a 72 00:02:44,279 --> 00:02:47,095 lot of the the feeling of 73 00:02:47,408 --> 00:02:49,389 how king writes about his own work Mh. 74 00:02:49,548 --> 00:02:51,925 In how Mcdonald is writing about king's work, 75 00:02:52,401 --> 00:02:54,144 and I I agree. There's there's a lot 76 00:02:54,144 --> 00:02:54,644 of 77 00:02:54,953 --> 00:02:57,578 I don't know. Sympathetic vibrations or something going 78 00:02:57,578 --> 00:03:00,442 on there that I really liked Mcdonald's take 79 00:03:00,442 --> 00:03:02,469 on king here. And 80 00:03:02,770 --> 00:03:04,610 he calls king out on a couple of 81 00:03:04,610 --> 00:03:06,290 things that I thought were pretty interesting. 82 00:03:07,569 --> 00:03:09,490 Mcdonald talks about his own work and he 83 00:03:09,490 --> 00:03:12,294 talks about when Every time he's published a 84 00:03:12,294 --> 00:03:14,917 book. He thinks of them as tangled children, 85 00:03:15,315 --> 00:03:17,302 and they're they're trying to make their way 86 00:03:17,302 --> 00:03:19,701 in spite of the handy that he has 87 00:03:19,701 --> 00:03:22,085 imposed upon them as their author and that 88 00:03:22,085 --> 00:03:24,548 he would give a pretty penny to have 89 00:03:24,548 --> 00:03:26,787 them all back and perhaps Take 1 last 90 00:03:26,787 --> 00:03:28,533 good swing at every 1 of the page 91 00:03:28,533 --> 00:03:31,946 by page, digging and cleaning, brushing and ref, 92 00:03:32,422 --> 00:03:33,349 tidying up 93 00:03:33,945 --> 00:03:36,405 And that sounds a lot like what King 94 00:03:36,405 --> 00:03:38,231 has done numerous times, 95 00:03:38,786 --> 00:03:40,453 including on books that we've covered on the 96 00:03:40,453 --> 00:03:44,050 show. He rewrote almost every page of the 97 00:03:44,050 --> 00:03:44,788 guns singer 98 00:03:45,164 --> 00:03:47,235 so that it would fit more in line 99 00:03:47,235 --> 00:03:48,986 with the rest of the dark tower series. 100 00:03:49,558 --> 00:03:52,178 He's rewritten the stand 2 times, 101 00:03:52,655 --> 00:03:55,275 and we are currently covering that in our 102 00:03:55,275 --> 00:03:58,789 main feed, and it's... Kinda remarkable how much 103 00:03:58,789 --> 00:04:01,100 that book has changed in the the 10 104 00:04:01,100 --> 00:04:03,968 years between its first and most recent publication. 105 00:04:04,287 --> 00:04:06,135 Yep. And he's and he's touched many of 106 00:04:06,135 --> 00:04:07,810 his other works. What even Salem a lot 107 00:04:07,810 --> 00:04:09,723 when we read, There was an additional 50 108 00:04:09,723 --> 00:04:12,035 pages to that book plus all those edited 109 00:04:12,035 --> 00:04:13,963 in cut scenes that we read at the 110 00:04:13,963 --> 00:04:16,358 end of that special edition where things really 111 00:04:16,358 --> 00:04:18,672 were different than they were in the the 112 00:04:18,672 --> 00:04:18,991 novel. 113 00:04:19,710 --> 00:04:21,067 And it you only need to pick up 114 00:04:21,067 --> 00:04:21,806 on writing 115 00:04:22,119 --> 00:04:24,748 to see what King does with a first 116 00:04:24,748 --> 00:04:26,899 draft and how he goes through it and 117 00:04:26,899 --> 00:04:28,971 just writes all over. I mean, that's an 118 00:04:28,971 --> 00:04:31,122 excellent way of looking at how a professional 119 00:04:31,122 --> 00:04:33,768 author at its own writing. For sure. Yeah. 120 00:04:34,008 --> 00:04:36,480 Even Her, like, that was released for the 121 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,271 kindle on the kindle, Like, it was about 122 00:04:39,271 --> 00:04:41,916 the kindle. Yep. And he changed that multiple 123 00:04:41,916 --> 00:04:43,903 times too, which I guess is easier if 124 00:04:43,903 --> 00:04:46,129 it's electronic. Yes. I suppose so... 125 00:04:47,401 --> 00:04:49,547 Yeah. And the other thing about the Mcdonald 126 00:04:49,547 --> 00:04:52,292 intro that I liked was just how important 127 00:04:52,351 --> 00:04:54,906 story is for both of them. Yeah. And 128 00:04:54,986 --> 00:04:56,742 King's talked about that before we've talked about 129 00:04:56,742 --> 00:04:59,456 on this podcast and Mcdonald nails it as 130 00:04:59,456 --> 00:05:00,095 well is like, 131 00:05:00,748 --> 00:05:02,583 hey, this is why I did King. Like, 132 00:05:02,742 --> 00:05:04,497 he knows that stories the most important thing 133 00:05:04,497 --> 00:05:06,911 as an author and and I'm going to 134 00:05:07,448 --> 00:05:09,203 ex the virtue of that and say, yes, 135 00:05:09,442 --> 00:05:11,605 you're right King. Story isn't important, and that's 136 00:05:11,605 --> 00:05:13,430 why you need to, you know, continue doing 137 00:05:13,430 --> 00:05:15,018 what you do, and that's why his books 138 00:05:15,018 --> 00:05:17,082 are so successful is because of that. Yep. 139 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,279 And there was another comment that I like 140 00:05:19,399 --> 00:05:20,278 that Mcdonald made, 141 00:05:21,157 --> 00:05:24,113 he talks about author intrusion, mh in various 142 00:05:24,113 --> 00:05:27,644 forms, and 1 that he himself wishes didn't 143 00:05:27,644 --> 00:05:30,605 happen that often, but he acknowledges that as 144 00:05:30,605 --> 00:05:32,285 he puts it is 1 of his most 145 00:05:32,285 --> 00:05:33,084 g failings. 146 00:05:33,725 --> 00:05:36,370 And that is the author intrusion of the 147 00:05:36,370 --> 00:05:38,358 mini lecture embedded in the story. 148 00:05:39,313 --> 00:05:41,675 I am totally forgiving of this. If I 149 00:05:41,873 --> 00:05:45,123 felt strongly against the mini lecture. I wouldn't 150 00:05:45,123 --> 00:05:47,264 be able to read any high line. And 151 00:05:47,343 --> 00:05:49,087 I love Hai. Hai is like, 152 00:05:49,738 --> 00:05:53,086 almost covered to cover mini lecture. And it's 153 00:05:53,086 --> 00:05:54,601 kind of 1 of his calling cards. 154 00:05:55,398 --> 00:05:57,732 So I I think that Mcdonald's 155 00:05:58,282 --> 00:05:58,782 maybe 156 00:05:59,156 --> 00:06:01,620 is criticizing himself a little too harshly there, 157 00:06:01,938 --> 00:06:04,482 but he also knows that he he has 158 00:06:04,482 --> 00:06:06,881 many lectures and probably every 1 of his 159 00:06:06,881 --> 00:06:09,107 books. Right. So maybe it's not such a 160 00:06:09,107 --> 00:06:11,174 bad thing. So along those lines of the 161 00:06:11,174 --> 00:06:13,161 mini lecture, John D mcdonald, 162 00:06:13,894 --> 00:06:15,974 main character Travis mcgee, has a friend named 163 00:06:16,134 --> 00:06:16,375 Me, 164 00:06:17,014 --> 00:06:17,894 who is his 165 00:06:18,615 --> 00:06:20,055 his best friend who lives next door to 166 00:06:20,055 --> 00:06:21,414 him and he's the 1 who gives many 167 00:06:21,414 --> 00:06:22,534 of those many lectures. 168 00:06:23,347 --> 00:06:26,286 He's an economist who has a very philosophical 169 00:06:26,286 --> 00:06:27,796 outlook on the way the world that he 170 00:06:27,796 --> 00:06:30,497 enjoys sharing with Travis and Travis shares back. 171 00:06:30,735 --> 00:06:30,894 So, 172 00:06:31,703 --> 00:06:34,249 Yeah. I I can't recommend Mcdonald's stuff enough 173 00:06:34,249 --> 00:06:37,056 if you have any interest in crime stories 174 00:06:37,192 --> 00:06:37,692 or 175 00:06:39,035 --> 00:06:39,535 detective 176 00:06:39,906 --> 00:06:42,679 or just sort of that hard boil neo 177 00:06:42,679 --> 00:06:45,452 noir stuff. It's great stuff. Yeah. Sounds awesome. 178 00:06:46,024 --> 00:06:49,533 Yeah. So in the introduction, John d Mcdonald 179 00:06:49,533 --> 00:06:50,033 says 180 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:52,723 that 1 of the most resident and affecting 181 00:06:52,723 --> 00:06:54,637 stories in this book is the last rung 182 00:06:54,637 --> 00:06:55,195 on the ladder. 183 00:06:55,849 --> 00:06:56,567 A gem. 184 00:06:57,285 --> 00:06:59,838 And Jay, I'd I think I have to 185 00:06:59,838 --> 00:07:01,832 agree, like, I've I've read the story twice 186 00:07:01,832 --> 00:07:02,630 in the past week. 187 00:07:03,599 --> 00:07:04,949 And it's probably the first time I've read 188 00:07:04,949 --> 00:07:07,013 it since, you know, last time I read 189 00:07:07,013 --> 00:07:08,521 night shift, which is years and years and 190 00:07:08,521 --> 00:07:12,217 years and years ago. And it's a beautiful 191 00:07:12,594 --> 00:07:15,067 affecting story that just really gets to you. 192 00:07:15,546 --> 00:07:17,642 Mh. And it is 193 00:07:18,274 --> 00:07:21,395 classic king, but not like anything we normally 194 00:07:21,395 --> 00:07:22,535 get with King. There's 195 00:07:22,995 --> 00:07:26,209 there's no supernatural. There's no occult there's none 196 00:07:26,209 --> 00:07:28,206 of those things that King is best known 197 00:07:28,206 --> 00:07:30,523 for. And while we have seen him do 198 00:07:30,523 --> 00:07:32,361 things like this and portions of his book, 199 00:07:32,521 --> 00:07:34,132 where he does things like this, I don't 200 00:07:34,132 --> 00:07:35,323 know if he's done it better than he 201 00:07:35,323 --> 00:07:37,863 has in this story. I agree. This is 202 00:07:37,863 --> 00:07:40,324 definitely a standout short story for King, and 203 00:07:40,324 --> 00:07:42,547 he is very good at short stories. 204 00:07:43,358 --> 00:07:46,304 So this is up there. And I also 205 00:07:46,304 --> 00:07:47,897 agree that this story is a real punch 206 00:07:47,897 --> 00:07:48,375 to the gut. 207 00:07:49,171 --> 00:07:51,242 Like like, you you hinted at it earlier 208 00:07:51,242 --> 00:07:52,691 when you said this gave you all the 209 00:07:52,691 --> 00:07:56,619 fields like king in his usual way sub 210 00:07:56,677 --> 00:07:58,908 some of the suspense in the story by 211 00:07:58,908 --> 00:08:02,032 starting off with, Some tragedy. We know that 212 00:08:02,032 --> 00:08:05,163 the narrator has read a letter from his 213 00:08:05,301 --> 00:08:08,490 recently deceased sister and it has devastated him. 214 00:08:08,823 --> 00:08:12,154 We don't yet know why it's devastating, but 215 00:08:12,154 --> 00:08:14,612 we know the result of of that devastation, 216 00:08:15,564 --> 00:08:16,357 right from the beginning. 217 00:08:17,247 --> 00:08:19,796 And despite that, despite setting us up for 218 00:08:19,796 --> 00:08:23,221 that, and maybe even perhaps partly because of 219 00:08:23,221 --> 00:08:25,212 it, by the time we read that letter 220 00:08:25,212 --> 00:08:27,460 with him, We understand its significance, 221 00:08:27,939 --> 00:08:29,694 and we get that punch of the gut. 222 00:08:29,933 --> 00:08:31,688 Even though we might have been bracing for 223 00:08:31,688 --> 00:08:33,856 it from page 1. It's 1 of the 224 00:08:33,856 --> 00:08:35,928 things that makes the story so successful for 225 00:08:35,928 --> 00:08:38,477 me is that it's a simple story, it's 226 00:08:38,477 --> 00:08:41,041 a brief story, but it's still. A really 227 00:08:41,041 --> 00:08:43,188 powerful story. Yeah. And it's not based on 228 00:08:43,188 --> 00:08:45,495 any sort of trickery, Like, there's not like 229 00:08:45,495 --> 00:08:46,927 a huge twist at the end? 230 00:08:47,578 --> 00:08:49,959 To your point, like, it's pretty clear what's 231 00:08:49,959 --> 00:08:52,498 what's happening and what's going to happen. It's 232 00:08:52,498 --> 00:08:54,006 just that the way that it's all put 233 00:08:54,006 --> 00:08:56,800 together and phrase and the way in these 234 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,946 short pages, we get to know these characters, 235 00:08:59,740 --> 00:09:02,125 especially the narrator and what what he's going 236 00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:02,625 through 237 00:09:03,238 --> 00:09:04,589 that really gets to you, 238 00:09:05,399 --> 00:09:07,468 you know, we don't get a lot from 239 00:09:07,548 --> 00:09:10,333 Kitty perspective, but we're told enough throughout the 240 00:09:10,333 --> 00:09:12,323 story to know what her life must have 241 00:09:12,323 --> 00:09:14,090 been like. And what it was going through 242 00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:15,604 and that's why it hits so hard at 243 00:09:15,604 --> 00:09:17,994 the end. Yeah. I mean, I would say 244 00:09:17,994 --> 00:09:20,065 1 of the key themes to the short 245 00:09:20,065 --> 00:09:20,565 story 246 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:22,637 as short as it is is 247 00:09:22,948 --> 00:09:24,064 something to do with faith, 248 00:09:24,701 --> 00:09:26,693 and not not like faith in a religious 249 00:09:26,693 --> 00:09:28,764 sense, but more faith that the world works 250 00:09:28,764 --> 00:09:29,641 in a certain way, 251 00:09:30,294 --> 00:09:33,490 And for kitty, it was more specifically that 252 00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:35,727 her brother would always be able to help 253 00:09:35,727 --> 00:09:38,458 her or help protect her in the way 254 00:09:38,458 --> 00:09:40,554 that he did on the day of the 255 00:09:40,613 --> 00:09:41,731 the thing in the barn. 256 00:09:42,370 --> 00:09:45,084 Right. And there's a a great line that 257 00:09:45,244 --> 00:09:46,841 King repeats a couple of times in the 258 00:09:46,841 --> 00:09:48,927 story that Kitty was the 1 who always 259 00:09:48,927 --> 00:09:51,157 knew the hay would be there. It's that 260 00:09:51,157 --> 00:09:54,183 that level of faith that if she was 261 00:09:54,183 --> 00:09:56,769 gonna let go of that last rung. And 262 00:09:56,830 --> 00:09:58,990 allow herself to fall because her brother said 263 00:09:58,990 --> 00:10:00,990 it's okay now. You can let go. 264 00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:03,924 She didn't know that there was anything there 265 00:10:04,044 --> 00:10:05,560 to break her fall. She just knew that 266 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:07,793 her brother was gonna do something to make 267 00:10:07,793 --> 00:10:10,425 it better. Mh. And in that case, that 268 00:10:10,425 --> 00:10:13,057 faith proved correct that faith was real and 269 00:10:13,057 --> 00:10:13,695 she was saved. 270 00:10:14,267 --> 00:10:16,888 And from that moment on, she held onto 271 00:10:16,888 --> 00:10:19,747 to that faith, but was reminded over and 272 00:10:19,747 --> 00:10:22,447 over again that the world isn't always gonna 273 00:10:22,447 --> 00:10:23,241 work out that way. 274 00:10:24,134 --> 00:10:26,134 This moment in her life as this girl 275 00:10:26,134 --> 00:10:27,834 who's saved by her brother 276 00:10:28,214 --> 00:10:31,668 becomes in some way more brittle or fragile, 277 00:10:31,987 --> 00:10:35,179 Mh. And she just breaks by inches over 278 00:10:35,179 --> 00:10:37,334 the rest of her life. Yeah. And it's 279 00:10:37,334 --> 00:10:38,712 almost as if Larry 280 00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:40,537 faith is broken that day. 281 00:10:41,651 --> 00:10:44,061 Because he once Kitty survives 282 00:10:44,596 --> 00:10:47,477 and is seen by the doctor and Larry 283 00:10:47,477 --> 00:10:49,389 taken his beating in the woods shed, and 284 00:10:49,389 --> 00:10:50,584 he goes to his sister. 285 00:10:51,222 --> 00:10:52,120 He stunned 286 00:10:52,736 --> 00:10:54,011 that sheep let go, 287 00:10:54,742 --> 00:10:57,285 Right? Yeah Like, he he can't believe he's 288 00:10:57,285 --> 00:11:00,860 like, wait. You you let go, not knowing 289 00:11:00,860 --> 00:11:02,370 that they was hay there. Like, you did 290 00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:02,767 look down. 291 00:11:03,338 --> 00:11:05,715 And it almost breaks him in the opposite 292 00:11:05,715 --> 00:11:07,934 way. Yeah. That he can't believe that she 293 00:11:07,934 --> 00:11:09,678 would do something like that that she has 294 00:11:09,678 --> 00:11:10,233 that faith, 295 00:11:11,682 --> 00:11:15,215 especially placed in him. Right? Like, Right. Like 296 00:11:15,434 --> 00:11:18,068 like, why me. And he gets at this 297 00:11:18,068 --> 00:11:19,345 a little bit earlier, 298 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,159 The narrator said the lander had always held 299 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:24,319 us before. We thought it would always hold 300 00:11:24,319 --> 00:11:26,559 us again, which is a philosophy that gets 301 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,373 men nations in trouble time after time. And 302 00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:31,364 it's almost like, hey, it's gonna happen again 303 00:11:31,364 --> 00:11:33,276 and again, and and that'll be okay, but 304 00:11:33,276 --> 00:11:35,267 you can't think that way. It's not always 305 00:11:35,267 --> 00:11:37,736 gonna be that way. Yeah. And Kitty thinks 306 00:11:37,736 --> 00:11:40,387 that. She keeps thinking, like my brother will 307 00:11:40,387 --> 00:11:42,624 always be there. And I think Larry thinks 308 00:11:42,624 --> 00:11:44,382 the opposite. I'm not always gonna be there. 309 00:11:44,622 --> 00:11:45,980 And in fact, he proves it in his 310 00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:46,140 life. 311 00:11:46,794 --> 00:11:48,552 Yeah. And and you don't ask me to 312 00:11:48,552 --> 00:11:50,790 be there. Right... Yeah. Don't ask me to 313 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:52,148 be there, and I'm I can't be there 314 00:11:52,148 --> 00:11:53,827 for you. Yeah. I guess that... Each of 315 00:11:53,827 --> 00:11:55,665 their last climb of the ladder, 316 00:11:56,238 --> 00:11:57,217 before it breaks 317 00:11:57,673 --> 00:12:01,181 is another example of faith versus no faith. 318 00:12:01,579 --> 00:12:03,333 Larry goes most of the way up the 319 00:12:03,333 --> 00:12:05,578 ladder and realizes The ladder is about to 320 00:12:05,578 --> 00:12:08,045 give way. Yep. Like he is a hundred 321 00:12:08,045 --> 00:12:10,194 percent convinced that he might not make it 322 00:12:10,194 --> 00:12:12,183 to the top of the ladder and just 323 00:12:12,183 --> 00:12:12,683 barely 324 00:12:13,058 --> 00:12:15,697 squeak by. And then Kitty halfway up, and 325 00:12:15,697 --> 00:12:17,129 he yells for her to come down and 326 00:12:17,129 --> 00:12:18,265 she says, it's 327 00:12:18,798 --> 00:12:20,945 fine. She still has faith in the ladder. 328 00:12:21,104 --> 00:12:23,902 She's still thinking, like you said that She's 329 00:12:23,902 --> 00:12:26,047 climbed this ladder. Dozens and dozens of times, 330 00:12:26,524 --> 00:12:28,907 why not 1 more. Right. And that's when 331 00:12:28,907 --> 00:12:31,291 it breaks. Yep. And all the way up 332 00:12:31,291 --> 00:12:31,926 to that point. 333 00:12:32,577 --> 00:12:36,151 There's all this faith imagery about the jump. 334 00:12:36,945 --> 00:12:38,160 Right. That that 335 00:12:38,692 --> 00:12:40,933 when when they jump, they feel like after 336 00:12:40,933 --> 00:12:42,846 they jump, they feel like lazarus rising from 337 00:12:42,846 --> 00:12:46,275 the dead, or it's it's like a newborn 338 00:12:46,275 --> 00:12:48,587 being born when when they come out of 339 00:12:48,587 --> 00:12:48,985 the hay. 340 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,320 Mh. And then there's a third time too 341 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,000 where he says it's like rising from the 342 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,440 dead as you come out of the the 343 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,840 hay. And so there's all this faith imagery. 344 00:12:57,493 --> 00:12:58,845 And then it all falls apart. 345 00:12:59,561 --> 00:13:01,470 And then at the end, the consequence for 346 00:13:01,549 --> 00:13:03,618 Larry is that he needs to take a 347 00:13:03,618 --> 00:13:03,936 beating, 348 00:13:04,508 --> 00:13:06,898 from his father, and with every swat of 349 00:13:06,898 --> 00:13:07,376 the belt, 350 00:13:08,014 --> 00:13:09,448 thank God for what had happened, 351 00:13:10,165 --> 00:13:12,634 and it... It's very much this idea of 352 00:13:12,634 --> 00:13:14,162 faith is all tied up in this story. 353 00:13:14,638 --> 00:13:17,678 Yeah. And I think a an interesting consequence 354 00:13:17,733 --> 00:13:20,273 of of their shared experience there is that, 355 00:13:21,637 --> 00:13:23,622 maybe consequences isn't in really the right word, 356 00:13:23,781 --> 00:13:25,710 but Larry life 357 00:13:26,401 --> 00:13:29,576 continues to get better from that moment on 358 00:13:29,576 --> 00:13:30,504 and like, he 359 00:13:30,861 --> 00:13:33,796 He high school. He goes to University. He 360 00:13:33,796 --> 00:13:34,510 becomes a lawyer. 361 00:13:34,986 --> 00:13:36,414 He has a successful career. 362 00:13:36,969 --> 00:13:38,318 He finds his way in the world. 363 00:13:38,889 --> 00:13:42,322 Yeah. But Kitty seems to have reached the 364 00:13:42,322 --> 00:13:45,195 ap of her life in the moment that 365 00:13:45,195 --> 00:13:48,402 she falls to the newly built. Pile of 366 00:13:48,402 --> 00:13:51,428 hay that Larry used a savor. That is 367 00:13:51,428 --> 00:13:52,804 the the best 368 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:55,967 happiest moment of her life when she writes 369 00:13:55,967 --> 00:13:56,467 her 370 00:13:56,938 --> 00:13:59,407 goodbye note to Larry, the note that we 371 00:13:59,407 --> 00:14:01,080 finally read at the end of the story. 372 00:14:01,796 --> 00:14:05,084 She has thought about her whole life reflected 373 00:14:05,221 --> 00:14:05,674 on 374 00:14:06,032 --> 00:14:08,333 every part of it and decided that she 375 00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:10,635 would have preferred to die that day. Yeah. 376 00:14:10,952 --> 00:14:11,826 Instead of being saved. 377 00:14:12,540 --> 00:14:13,040 And 378 00:14:13,508 --> 00:14:16,451 I interpret that as she's decided that nothing 379 00:14:16,451 --> 00:14:19,156 after that moment in her life was worth 380 00:14:19,156 --> 00:14:19,792 living for. 381 00:14:20,681 --> 00:14:23,299 And as depressing as that sounds, that also 382 00:14:23,299 --> 00:14:25,759 tells me that that's where her life reached 383 00:14:25,759 --> 00:14:27,267 its best moment. Mh. 384 00:14:27,996 --> 00:14:31,090 Yeah. And it's also the moment when the 385 00:14:31,090 --> 00:14:31,987 2 of them 386 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,978 seem to have the most love in their 387 00:14:34,978 --> 00:14:35,692 life as well. 388 00:14:36,818 --> 00:14:39,277 When he sees her swan dive off of 389 00:14:39,277 --> 00:14:39,777 the 390 00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:42,213 the beam and the barn, he says I 391 00:14:42,213 --> 00:14:43,720 loved her so much in that moment and 392 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,045 he said he rem is about how beautiful 393 00:14:46,045 --> 00:14:46,364 she is. 394 00:14:47,161 --> 00:14:49,474 And and her love for him is a 395 00:14:49,474 --> 00:14:50,990 parent as well when she says, you know, 396 00:14:51,229 --> 00:14:52,585 you saved me, of course, you would or 397 00:14:52,585 --> 00:14:53,941 my brother and you would do anything for 398 00:14:53,941 --> 00:14:56,347 me. And then after that, she has a 399 00:14:56,347 --> 00:14:59,057 couple failed relationships and then becomes a call 400 00:14:59,057 --> 00:15:01,846 girl, and he has a wife that they 401 00:15:01,846 --> 00:15:04,167 divorce. And all they do is exchange pleasant 402 00:15:04,167 --> 00:15:06,234 trees, and he's thrown himself into work. And 403 00:15:06,234 --> 00:15:09,096 it seems like that was the best relationship 404 00:15:09,096 --> 00:15:10,845 that they had, but it was stuck in 405 00:15:10,845 --> 00:15:11,583 that moment 406 00:15:11,973 --> 00:15:14,359 And he said that he he can't believe 407 00:15:14,359 --> 00:15:16,030 she's grown up and that he will always 408 00:15:16,030 --> 00:15:17,382 remember her is that 8 year old with 409 00:15:17,382 --> 00:15:19,628 pig tails. Yeah. I I think part of 410 00:15:19,628 --> 00:15:21,866 that is from the fact that I suspect 411 00:15:21,866 --> 00:15:24,023 subconsciously Heath feels like he could never live 412 00:15:24,023 --> 00:15:26,420 up to that moment mh. With her again. 413 00:15:26,834 --> 00:15:28,909 That no matter what he ever did for 414 00:15:28,909 --> 00:15:31,462 her, it would never equal, you know, saving 415 00:15:31,462 --> 00:15:33,536 her life. Yeah. And while that might be 416 00:15:33,536 --> 00:15:33,855 true, 417 00:15:34,428 --> 00:15:36,894 the sad thing is that it it didn't 418 00:15:36,894 --> 00:15:39,439 have to. Right. He doesn't have to be 419 00:15:39,439 --> 00:15:41,164 superman every time he 420 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,714 interacts with his sister, 421 00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:46,629 but I think that became a subconscious obstacle 422 00:15:46,765 --> 00:15:49,489 for him to stay connected to her to 423 00:15:49,624 --> 00:15:50,578 stay part of her life. 424 00:15:51,228 --> 00:15:53,933 It was easier somehow for him to just 425 00:15:53,933 --> 00:15:54,410 avoid her, 426 00:15:55,763 --> 00:15:57,513 than it was to face the fact that 427 00:15:57,513 --> 00:15:58,044 he was 428 00:15:58,563 --> 00:16:01,437 lesser than in her eyes or maybe his 429 00:16:01,437 --> 00:16:02,394 own. Right. 430 00:16:03,113 --> 00:16:05,108 It's a hell of a story, G. It 431 00:16:05,108 --> 00:16:06,625 really is. I mean, it was it, like, 432 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:09,033 11 pages or something and how how much 433 00:16:09,033 --> 00:16:10,948 have we've been talking about here? Yeah. Yeah. 434 00:16:11,426 --> 00:16:13,341 I hope that there are people out there 435 00:16:13,341 --> 00:16:13,500 who... 436 00:16:14,313 --> 00:16:15,909 Stopped before he listened to this and read 437 00:16:15,909 --> 00:16:17,106 the story and if you have not, 438 00:16:17,745 --> 00:16:19,022 I urge you to go back and read 439 00:16:19,022 --> 00:16:21,495 that story because it it is really beautiful. 440 00:16:22,067 --> 00:16:22,304 Yeah. 441 00:16:23,255 --> 00:16:23,572 Jay, 442 00:16:24,206 --> 00:16:26,187 even in those short 11 pages, are there 443 00:16:26,187 --> 00:16:28,088 any dark tower thingies that you're aware of? 444 00:16:33,359 --> 00:16:35,113 Oh, yeah. Yeah. We managed to find a 445 00:16:35,113 --> 00:16:37,265 couple. Yeah. So I think we both noticed. 446 00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:40,156 The first 1 is that the characters in 447 00:16:40,156 --> 00:16:42,893 this story are from Hem Home to Nebraska. 448 00:16:43,432 --> 00:16:45,110 You don't say... Yes. 449 00:16:45,764 --> 00:16:48,022 This is the same town where mother abigail 450 00:16:48,081 --> 00:16:50,558 from the stand lives and where many of 451 00:16:50,558 --> 00:16:51,298 our characters 452 00:16:51,917 --> 00:16:53,275 descend upon after the plague. 453 00:16:54,963 --> 00:16:57,114 So in addition to that having for home 454 00:16:57,114 --> 00:16:59,025 being referenced in the stand where it's probably 455 00:16:59,025 --> 00:17:01,892 bust well known. It is also mentioned in 456 00:17:01,892 --> 00:17:02,131 it. 457 00:17:03,103 --> 00:17:05,658 Sell and the short story 19 22, which 458 00:17:05,818 --> 00:17:07,414 I think takes place in Having for home. 459 00:17:07,973 --> 00:17:08,293 Nice. 460 00:17:09,091 --> 00:17:10,390 I have kind of a tangent 461 00:17:10,768 --> 00:17:11,906 thin. It's 462 00:17:12,538 --> 00:17:14,549 connected to the dark tower by way of 463 00:17:14,605 --> 00:17:17,388 hearts in Atlanta, specifically the story blind willie. 464 00:17:18,342 --> 00:17:21,364 And we learn about how Larry has a 465 00:17:21,364 --> 00:17:21,864 clipping 466 00:17:22,254 --> 00:17:25,281 of his sister suicide from the newspaper, 467 00:17:26,078 --> 00:17:28,946 that he always carries. Mh. And he says 468 00:17:28,946 --> 00:17:29,400 that 469 00:17:29,838 --> 00:17:31,513 He carries it around not in the good 470 00:17:31,513 --> 00:17:33,586 way you carry snapshots of people you want 471 00:17:33,586 --> 00:17:35,979 to remember or theater tickets from a really 472 00:17:35,979 --> 00:17:37,733 good show or part of the program from 473 00:17:37,733 --> 00:17:40,223 a world series game. I carry that clipping 474 00:17:40,223 --> 00:17:42,940 the way you carry something heavy because carrying 475 00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:43,899 it is your work. 476 00:17:44,938 --> 00:17:46,856 And to me that really reminded me of 477 00:17:46,856 --> 00:17:50,145 blind Willie, Blind Willie kept tabs on the 478 00:17:50,145 --> 00:17:51,821 coming and going of Carol Gerber, 479 00:17:52,778 --> 00:17:55,890 because he felt so terribly guilty. It's why 480 00:17:55,890 --> 00:17:58,859 he created all of these alternate personas for 481 00:17:58,859 --> 00:18:01,573 himself, and part of that was as pen 482 00:18:01,573 --> 00:18:03,968 for what he did her. And because he 483 00:18:03,968 --> 00:18:06,774 believed her to be dead, it was all 484 00:18:06,774 --> 00:18:08,924 the more difficult for him to ever gain 485 00:18:08,924 --> 00:18:10,061 any sense of 486 00:18:10,516 --> 00:18:10,914 forgiveness. 487 00:18:11,950 --> 00:18:15,066 He was perpetually punishing himself. Right. And part 488 00:18:15,066 --> 00:18:17,049 of that was keeping all of those newspaper 489 00:18:17,049 --> 00:18:19,270 clipping about. All of the things that Carol 490 00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:19,746 got up to, 491 00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:20,857 including... 492 00:18:21,348 --> 00:18:24,690 The terrorist act that supposedly killed her. Yeah. 493 00:18:24,849 --> 00:18:27,076 It's it's like the the burden of the 494 00:18:27,076 --> 00:18:28,747 survivor, like, this is what what you have 495 00:18:28,747 --> 00:18:31,231 to carry around with you? Yeah. In both 496 00:18:31,231 --> 00:18:31,550 cases. 497 00:18:32,746 --> 00:18:34,421 Another dark tower Thing is that John D 498 00:18:34,421 --> 00:18:37,133 mcdonald, who wrote the introduction in who like 499 00:18:37,133 --> 00:18:39,207 this story is also referenced in the Dark 500 00:18:39,207 --> 00:18:39,765 tower books. 501 00:18:40,416 --> 00:18:41,209 Multiple times, 502 00:18:42,638 --> 00:18:44,010 most famously when 503 00:18:44,383 --> 00:18:46,526 when Jake is at the Manhattan restaurant of 504 00:18:46,526 --> 00:18:47,002 the mind, 505 00:18:47,575 --> 00:18:50,695 the bookstore in the towers. Yeah. Cow Towers 506 00:18:50,695 --> 00:18:51,994 bookstore exactly is where 507 00:18:52,375 --> 00:18:54,910 they see John Mcdonald books on the 508 00:18:55,586 --> 00:18:57,336 On the on the sale rack along with 509 00:18:57,336 --> 00:18:59,722 the Stephen King book, which sort of shocks 510 00:18:59,722 --> 00:19:02,524 them. And us says the reader. Yeah. That 511 00:19:02,524 --> 00:19:04,362 was fun. Yeah. So again, 512 00:19:05,161 --> 00:19:07,319 King making those connections like he likes to 513 00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:07,559 do. 514 00:19:08,198 --> 00:19:10,915 Mh. He's probably typing that on his old 515 00:19:10,915 --> 00:19:13,480 type writer like, that bastard Mcdonald's is gonna 516 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,695 love this when it reads. 517 00:19:15,944 --> 00:19:17,614 Alright. I think it's sounded to move to 518 00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:19,602 some fun stuff in this dark story, Jay. 519 00:19:20,173 --> 00:19:21,923 We got? Yeah. I found a few things 520 00:19:21,923 --> 00:19:22,719 that I thought were fun. 521 00:19:23,912 --> 00:19:25,980 I definitely had an an O Kirk moment. 522 00:19:27,268 --> 00:19:28,404 The line that I 523 00:19:28,859 --> 00:19:31,587 I noted for the O kirk moment was 524 00:19:31,804 --> 00:19:33,713 the last rung on the ladder still hung 525 00:19:33,713 --> 00:19:36,021 there, a sla from 1 nail. 526 00:19:37,630 --> 00:19:40,342 And that's why they call it the last 527 00:19:40,342 --> 00:19:41,480 rung on the ladder. 528 00:19:42,336 --> 00:19:44,011 Do you see it up there? That's the 529 00:19:44,011 --> 00:19:45,388 last rung on the ladder. 530 00:19:46,659 --> 00:19:50,414 It's not 2 wrong left. It's just 1II 531 00:19:50,414 --> 00:19:52,331 will note this isn't in my fun stuff, 532 00:19:52,491 --> 00:19:54,499 but I wanna mention it. To the folks 533 00:19:54,499 --> 00:19:56,329 that this is another 1 that has been 534 00:19:56,329 --> 00:19:58,397 made into some dollar baby movies. 535 00:19:59,192 --> 00:20:00,249 And I think 536 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,119 and and me reading it, I... It it 537 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,119 seems like a very visual novel. I sure 538 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,259 you could do some really 539 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,405 intriguing things with the the pass setting. I 540 00:20:10,565 --> 00:20:11,940 I don't know how well the 541 00:20:12,474 --> 00:20:15,259 the narrator part, the framing story would would 542 00:20:15,259 --> 00:20:16,692 read on screen. I don't know how you 543 00:20:16,692 --> 00:20:17,487 would do that, but, 544 00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:19,820 I could just sort of imagine the kids 545 00:20:19,820 --> 00:20:21,599 jumping off the ladder into the 546 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:23,820 into the haystack and the barn, like, just 547 00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:26,115 seems visually, like, a very appropriate. So 548 00:20:26,711 --> 00:20:27,927 Yeah, You just do, 549 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,904 you know, nor our type voice over while 550 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,746 Larry on an airplane in the c seat. 551 00:20:35,238 --> 00:20:35,874 And he's, like, 552 00:20:36,668 --> 00:20:36,986 distraught. 553 00:20:37,622 --> 00:20:39,235 And then it goes, you know, the. 554 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,124 And then it's flash back to the... Jumping 555 00:20:43,124 --> 00:20:43,683 in the Hay. 556 00:20:44,482 --> 00:20:47,039 Larry would not be writing coach. And you 557 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:49,676 introduced the hay, jumping scene with, like, a 558 00:20:49,676 --> 00:20:50,555 period song, 559 00:20:52,485 --> 00:20:53,123 maybe a little... 560 00:20:54,718 --> 00:20:55,835 Why can't I think of their name? 561 00:20:56,632 --> 00:20:58,387 I don't know. Think what you talking about? 562 00:20:58,546 --> 00:20:59,902 That the song that they are, the king 563 00:20:59,902 --> 00:21:00,835 always is talking about 564 00:21:01,430 --> 00:21:02,302 for the dark tower. 565 00:21:03,096 --> 00:21:05,396 Baby can you dig in? No. The platter 566 00:21:05,396 --> 00:21:07,459 song. What is it? Oh, it's twilight time. 567 00:21:07,777 --> 00:21:08,649 Twilight time. Yeah. 568 00:21:10,014 --> 00:21:12,239 So the by my other fun stuff is 569 00:21:12,239 --> 00:21:14,225 again for Mcdonald and in in the intro 570 00:21:14,225 --> 00:21:16,784 to to night shift. And Mcdonald says, do 571 00:21:16,784 --> 00:21:18,622 not give a Did whoop but Stephen King 572 00:21:18,622 --> 00:21:20,859 chooses an area in which to write when 573 00:21:20,859 --> 00:21:23,257 he's talking about the supernatural and the occult 574 00:21:23,257 --> 00:21:24,455 and and all that fun stuff. 575 00:21:25,349 --> 00:21:27,824 And he says, like, humor and the occult 576 00:21:27,824 --> 00:21:29,601 or the hardest things to write because 577 00:21:30,059 --> 00:21:31,997 either the occult gonna come off his humorous 578 00:21:32,535 --> 00:21:34,051 or the humor is not gonna make its 579 00:21:34,051 --> 00:21:34,984 way through and 580 00:21:35,423 --> 00:21:37,656 yeah. He praise his king for being able 581 00:21:37,656 --> 00:21:39,970 to to write well and and right in 582 00:21:39,970 --> 00:21:41,724 a in a hard genre, and it really 583 00:21:41,724 --> 00:21:43,399 doesn't matter to him even though they don't 584 00:21:43,399 --> 00:21:44,755 write in the same genre. So. 585 00:21:45,726 --> 00:21:48,513 Is Mcdonald always so foul mouth saying things 586 00:21:48,513 --> 00:21:50,265 like Did Whoop? I know. Right? 587 00:21:51,858 --> 00:21:53,211 Gotta a censor that, John d. 588 00:21:53,863 --> 00:21:54,182 Yeah. 589 00:21:55,216 --> 00:21:55,693 They're rough. 590 00:21:57,124 --> 00:21:59,351 I had 2 other things in fun stuff, 591 00:21:59,510 --> 00:22:01,363 and they're both from Mcdonald's 592 00:22:01,738 --> 00:22:01,897 introduction. 593 00:22:02,866 --> 00:22:05,093 He's talking a lot about what it's like 594 00:22:05,093 --> 00:22:07,480 to be a writer, and some of the 595 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,252 things you need to do to 596 00:22:09,644 --> 00:22:11,482 become better at writing and 1 of them 597 00:22:11,482 --> 00:22:13,560 is you need to read a lot. Mh, 598 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,277 And he says you you read everything with 599 00:22:16,277 --> 00:22:18,675 grinding envy or a weary contempt. 600 00:22:20,202 --> 00:22:21,577 I thought that was wonderful 601 00:22:21,953 --> 00:22:24,657 because it's... You either read somebody else's working 602 00:22:24,657 --> 00:22:26,328 and you and you wish you could be 603 00:22:26,328 --> 00:22:27,703 that good or 604 00:22:28,093 --> 00:22:29,708 there's all the rest that 605 00:22:30,164 --> 00:22:32,155 I am so much better than this garbage. 606 00:22:32,872 --> 00:22:33,111 Right? 607 00:22:33,828 --> 00:22:34,147 But 608 00:22:34,864 --> 00:22:36,297 that's awesome like that. Yeah. 609 00:22:37,666 --> 00:22:39,337 The other 1 was a line that he 610 00:22:39,337 --> 00:22:39,576 says, 611 00:22:40,451 --> 00:22:42,861 he's talking about being able to create 612 00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:44,111 realistic characters. 613 00:22:44,683 --> 00:22:46,508 And he says that you need to know 614 00:22:46,508 --> 00:22:46,746 yourself. 615 00:22:47,699 --> 00:22:50,635 And the way to do that is that 616 00:22:50,635 --> 00:22:52,857 you have to start knowing yourself so well, 617 00:22:53,269 --> 00:22:55,288 that you begin to know other people 618 00:22:55,747 --> 00:22:57,345 because a piece of us is in every 619 00:22:57,345 --> 00:22:58,544 person we can ever meet. 620 00:22:59,423 --> 00:23:01,580 And I thought that was really powerful. I 621 00:23:01,580 --> 00:23:02,320 think it's 622 00:23:02,790 --> 00:23:05,168 the really important thing to know to be 623 00:23:05,168 --> 00:23:07,149 a good writer, but I think it's a 624 00:23:07,149 --> 00:23:08,180 good thing to know to just be a 625 00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:08,893 good human being. 626 00:23:10,259 --> 00:23:12,733 Yeah. To to to know that you need 627 00:23:12,733 --> 00:23:15,708 to understand yourself before you can 628 00:23:16,165 --> 00:23:19,530 effectively understand others. But part of part of 629 00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:20,824 that learning 630 00:23:21,277 --> 00:23:21,777 is 631 00:23:22,388 --> 00:23:24,452 the realization that there's a lot of you 632 00:23:24,452 --> 00:23:26,199 and everybody and a lot of everybody in 633 00:23:26,199 --> 00:23:26,437 you, 634 00:23:27,088 --> 00:23:29,104 because we all have so many common experiences. 635 00:23:29,561 --> 00:23:29,800 Right. 636 00:23:30,438 --> 00:23:30,938 So 637 00:23:31,395 --> 00:23:33,868 that is a nice line. And that's 1 638 00:23:33,868 --> 00:23:36,021 of the reasons this story hits so well, 639 00:23:36,261 --> 00:23:37,651 I think. Is because 640 00:23:38,183 --> 00:23:39,136 I don't have a sister. 641 00:23:40,089 --> 00:23:40,986 I don't have 642 00:23:41,598 --> 00:23:44,695 a sibling that's committed suicide. I never saved 643 00:23:44,695 --> 00:23:45,989 anyone's life like this 644 00:23:46,934 --> 00:23:49,714 but the commonality of that experience and some 645 00:23:49,714 --> 00:23:51,223 of the feelings that go along with all 646 00:23:51,223 --> 00:23:51,541 of that? 647 00:23:52,574 --> 00:23:54,163 I may have had you may have had. 648 00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:57,279 And King brings it to life so well 649 00:23:57,279 --> 00:23:59,268 that I think that that's what makes the 650 00:23:59,268 --> 00:24:01,018 story so powerful is that we can imagine 651 00:24:01,018 --> 00:24:01,177 it. 652 00:24:02,858 --> 00:24:03,358 Absolutely. 653 00:24:04,365 --> 00:24:06,188 Alright. Well, that's gonna be all for this 654 00:24:06,188 --> 00:24:07,773 episode of 2 guys to the Dark tower 655 00:24:07,773 --> 00:24:08,963 came. Thanks, Jay. 656 00:24:09,615 --> 00:24:11,694 Thank you. And I wanna take a moment 657 00:24:11,694 --> 00:24:14,095 to thank our patriots for continuing to support 658 00:24:14,095 --> 00:24:16,174 the show and continuing to be there for 659 00:24:16,174 --> 00:24:17,375 us. We really appreciate you. 660 00:24:18,174 --> 00:24:20,020 Absolutely. Links to all of our social media 661 00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:21,450 is available in the show notes if you 662 00:24:21,450 --> 00:24:22,960 like to show please ray us on apple 663 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:23,357 podcast. 664 00:24:24,072 --> 00:24:26,853 Look for more exclusive content at patreon dot 665 00:24:26,853 --> 00:24:29,645 com. Slash 2 guys dark hour. For Jay 666 00:24:29,724 --> 00:24:30,676 Russo, I'm Sean. 667 00:24:31,787 --> 00:24:32,501 Thanks for listening.