Welcome everyone to 2 guys to the Dark
tower king. A podcast or red discuss the
characters and connections. In the ever expanding universe
that revolves around Stephen King's dark tower.
I'm Jay Russo, and I'm Sean
In You can email us at 2 guys
dark tower at gmail dot com.
Thank you to our patrons for your continued
support of the show.
In this bonus episode, we'll discuss Stephen King
short story, Known, found in skeleton crew.
Let's start the show.
A man is in prison, recount the events
that brought him there, which are centered around
a young woman named Non.
After a fight outside a diner,
the unnamed man and Non, hitch he and
killed more people
before she leads him to a graveyard
where he makes a terrifying discovery.
Jade, this story as you mentioned was published
in Stephen King's Sk crew, collection of short
stories in 19 85, but it was first
published in 19 78 in a collection called
shadows.
But to me, this very much felt like
a story of the late sixties and early
seventies.
There was a lot of reference to the
counter culture
and hippie and the look and feel of
our our unnamed narrator who has long hair
and that's what sort of pre the events
in the diner that that starts this whole
story off. Because it's a bunch of truckers
who are picking on the long hair fancy
looking dude who looks sort of like Jesus
And we got a number of references
around that,
Merle H O from Musk sk, which is
a
song that was recorded in 19 69.
At 1 point, they mentioned that a character
smelled of engine oil and looked like something
out of a Steve Did code drawing,
and Steve Did was a c creator of
Spider Man used the artist,
and he had a very unique angular look,
and was very famous in the sixties for
Spider Man and Doctor Strange, By the time,
the mid late seventies came around. He was
not doing very much mainstream popular work. He
was still doing some work for Dc, but
it wasn't any of the main characters. And
so the seventies are somewhat of a down
period for Did code, but that really feels
like a sixties reference to me. So those
references combined with this... Whole idea of the
counter culture sort of being rebelled against by
this unnamed character
sort of sets this for me in the
late sixties and early seventies and we'll get
to even further the parts in
Relations, which, again, was also in the late
sixties. It gives the narrator yet 1 more
thing. Or 1 more reason for him to
feel like an outsider. Yeah. Through the course
of the story, he continues to run up
against, like brick walls of culture where he
feels like he doesn't fit in. But this
is kind of foundational to him at least
in his young adulthood. By the time he
reaches college age and spend some time at
university,
he realizes that
there are a lot of people in the
world who don't like him simply because of
who he is or what he looks like
or what he might represent and and that
probably does a lot to feed into his
feelings of
isolation, and that's something that he struggles with
and
A lot of the things that happened in
the story
seem like an
unhealthy reaction to all of those feelings.
Yeah. And we'll talk more about some of
the other things that might motivate him to
take some of those actions, but I think
being part of the counter culture and the
feelings of being an outsider,
I think is a big part of who
he is. Yeah. And if you look at
the
antagonist to our narrator,
there's the the truckers in the diner,
who definitely don't like them because of how
he looks.
There's the rich guy that he ends up
killing who seems like a a straight job
businessman who's hoping to take advantage of the
young good looking lady to maybe
get a little bit of a side piece
from his wife, and then there's the cop
that they murder. So all of these
characters could represent the mainstream culture in some
way that... He's rebelling against, and it just
so happens that they're the ones who get
killed along the way. And even the construction
workers who are... There to fix a downed
power line or something. Right? Like,
in a way, you could say, like, they're
fixing a city utility. Right? They're part of
the machine. Right the counter culture
thinks is the source of all problems in
society. So, yeah, like, everybody he encounters, including
his jail, we assume are all part of
that. Right? Keeping the man down.
Mh. Yeah. There's a nice line that you
could probably relate to this somewhat. III called
it out at first because of how king
writes it. Good looks are cheap in a
wealthy country, And that gives that same sort
of sense as well. Right? That when you're
a country that has everything,
you even have good looks, and that's something
that people fight for other places, but here
it just comes easy.
So
Having said all that, Jay.
Yep. I think it's good that maybe we
should question a little bit our narrator though.
Right? Yes. Is he the most reliable storyteller
here?
Absolutely not. I... And I think if we
are going to be astute readers of this
story?
We need to call on to question every
single thing he tells us. Yes. From the
fact that he's in jail, who knows if
he's really even in jail, to the very
end when he says he's going to commit
suicide. Does he really intend to and does
he do it. Right. And everything that happens
in between those 2 moments it's entirely possible
that this is either simply a work of
fiction or the raving of someone who has
descended into some kind of madness end.
He either imagined all of this or did
some of these things, but not for the
reasons that he thinks he did. Right. Or
not in the way that they happened.
Yeah. With a woman who turns into a
rat egg him on. Right. Yeah. So
King sets this up by giving us multiple
frames to this... Story. So the narrator in
prison in writing this down, and so we
get that at the beginning and the end.
And then the story moves into the secondary
frame, which is I'm gonna tell you the
events of what happened from the time I
was hitch hiking in the diner to when
I got arrested. But then even within that
frame, there are the flashbacks to his college
time, in his childhood. And every little piece
of that as you said, has a little
bit off to it potentially that we can
start to question. Mh. And really sets this
apart because What I found interesting is that
there's a meta piece to this.
That when we encounter a Stephen King novel,
we are expecting supernatural
and unexpected things, things out of this world.
Yes. And so having just read Salem lot,
hey, there's vampires in it, and I'm gonna
take that as at face value. So when
I pick up this story and I read
it, and there's a woman who
On a guy to murder people and then
turns into a rat, that would it be
totally unexpected in Stephen King book?
Nope. By the end of this year you're
like, wait a minute. Is that really what
happened is known really we're at? Is she
even there? Is she just a fig of
his imagination? Is it something else that's going
on? Yeah. She even seems to have almost
a psychic connection to him.
Because he seems to
feel...
Her encouraging him to take certain actions and
even to feel certain ways
that is never
at least on the page,
is, like she doesn't say these things out
loud. Right. Basically, he's getting
himself worked up. He goes into these fits
of rage
based on this
unspoken
communication that happens between the 2 of them.
Yeah. So again, even if Non was a
real person
and she was with him when these things
happened.
I still think that his motivations for doing
them are probably not because she was making
him do it. Right. It was because he
was... He would have done it anyway. Yep.
Had he been alone. And especially when you
look back at some of the events from
his childhood too. Right? Yeah Like, he got
into a fight a dance once before.
And he is creepy in some ways that
people look at him weird, and his family
sort of mysteriously die in a fire that
maybe can't totally be explained away.
Mh. So it's not just... The character of
Known who is doing things to him that
he was already somewhat of a troubled boy
to begin with. Yeah. And at the dance,
he gets into this moment where all the
men who are dancing start to have these
horrific cartoon like mask, like, faces, and all
of the women are revealed to be rats.
Mh. Like these giant rat creatures. But in
that moment, he can look at this clinically
and say this is a hallucinations. It's not
real and therefore, I have no reason to
be terrified.
But that's exactly what he sees with Non.
Right? Like, No turns into a rat creature
at the end of the story. And at
that point, he's
completely convinced that that's real. Yep.
So is this just us witnessing his descent
into madness? Is this he starts to see
women as rat creatures? And now he sees
all women as rat creatures, and now he
sees known as a rat creature, and for
some reason that has come full circle for
him, and it makes a kind of sense
and because it's real to him now, or
as you hinted that with your your meta
commentary
was she a rat creature because this is
a Stephen King's story after all, and why
wouldn't there be rat creatures in in a
Stephen King's story? I think that's 1 of
the most fun aspects of this story is
that the unreliable narrator aspect of it can
go in so many different directions. I think
you could make really viable arguments in almost
any direction of any of these points gonna
be satisfied with where you ended up and
still enjoy the story. So it's great.
Yeah. Because if I I'll note that there
are, I think 8 or 9 dollar baby
movies. We discussed the dollar babies on a
previous episode.
So people who had the opportunity to adapt
short stories, and there's, like, 9 of these
out there. Mh. And this seems like it
be a fun story to adapt for film.
Yeah. Because there's a lot of cool things
happening. You know, there's car chases. There's, you
know, fights, and then there's a rat creature
at the end.
And I would be interested to see how
the filmmakers deal with that and and frame
it. Because when you when you do it
that way and when it's just not words
on paper. You do have this opportunity to
start to do fun things with the unreliable
narrator wear. Maybe you see things in a
different light the 2 times it's presented,
how he thinks about it. Does it... Is...
Does it look different on film. And so
I'd be interested to seeing some of those
to see how they address that to see
what side they come out if if the
director makes it. Choice to do that. As
a reader, we have our own choices we
can sort of take it and say, alright.
Where do you land at the end? Mh.
Do you think it happened or do you
think it didn't a So I'll ask you
that question then. What do you think, Sean?
Like, what's your opinion? Where do you come
down on this? Was it a hallucinations or
was it real?
Was it Fight Club or was it American
psycho?
Yeah. I sort of think it's...
I think it's more fight club that he's
made up this in his head.
You know, the second connection piece that you
talked about where he hears things from this
known creature that are making him do things,
I think that's a lot of fight club,
right? Where he's just turning it his in
his own head and he's making it up.
So
having said that, I do know that King
is often influenced. By P Lovecraft. And P
Lovecraft has a famous story about the rats
in the walls, I think. Yep. I think
that's the title of it. Yeah. And You
know, there actually are rats in the walls,
and I wonder, you know what? There could
still be a supernatural piece of this.
But overall, if I were to take it
at face value, I would take it as
hallucinations.
How about You j? I think I come
down on the same side of it.
There are... Too many points along the way
here where he couldn't have continued on with
nun at his side, unless she were a
supernatural creature. Mh truly egg him on. And
because I don't think anybody was egg him
on. I don't think this guy needed any
egg on.
I just think he needed to reach a
breaking point,
and that happened when he got into the
fight in the parking lot with the tough
guy truck drivers.
Having said that day,
But having said that... Yeah. There's 1 thing
I wanna point out, and you noticed it
as well, Mh. Which is the businessman that
he kills. Yeah. The only way that he
meets him is because they're hitch hiking, and
the guy pulls off to the side of
the road to pick them up. And he
says that when the businessman sees him, he's
shocked because he was picking up a young
woman. And then when this guy shows up.
He's like, oh, I wasn't expecting to get
a young woman and a man, and he
he starts to become a little bit more
distant and drops them off. And so would
the guy have stopped if there wasn't a
woman there to help? Draw his attention. I
suspect not, but we do know that the
narrator has long hair, and it was a
dark knight, and the storm was coming in.
Maybe he thought it was a woman. Oh,
and then he's really disappointed.
Yeah. I don't know. That could add a
whole new layer to this story where, like,
was he known?
I don't know. I think that's that's the
1 wrinkle in the story where a...
The presence of No would have...
Explained it a lot easier.
Yes.
Because that's like the classic trick that you
see in the movies all the time. You
know, the the hitch he who's not getting
anybody to stop for him, but he hides
behind a tree or something and the lets
his female companion do the the thumb. Right.
And then suddenly, like, rides are a plenty.
Right? And then sure. That that story checks
out, but
aside from that, I I don't think any
of the other things have to happen with
known around.
True.
But Also, I mean, if we... If we're
gonna be really skeptical about everything in this
story.
It could be that nana o was a
real person,
and was with him and got into the
car, hitch hiking,
and then everything after that was a fig
of his imagination. Right? We don't know how
many of these murders he actually committed. It
could be that
he got ride with the businessman, and
got out of the car later, and then
got into a scrape with the cop. And
that's why he's in jail. Yeah. We don't
know. Yep. Well, you mentioned it already once,
but,
now only did this remind me a little
bit of fight club, but also of natural
born killers Bonnie and Clyde. Oh, yeah. For
sure. Where... 2 young lovers on the road,
and I was leaning more towards the natural
born killers, which I know came after this,
but there's all sorts of unreliable ness in
natural born killers.
Along the way in a little psychedelic, and
I could see that with this
adaptation as well, but
it's it's a trope that's used, but it's
put a good effect here because King puts
his own twist on it with. What if
the woman in this situation was either not
real or a rat creature,
and
that makes those types of stories even more
fun. Yep. So normally, at this point, Jay,
we would do our dark tower thin,
We wanna expand this because it seems as
if this story
mel into a number of Stephen King works.
Not only the dark tower books, but also
Parts in Atlanta, Salem lot and even some
of the castle rock stories. Yeah. So let's
talk about those thin.
So To start off with 1 that's not
quite a thin, but at first I thought
it was. It was a pseudo thin if
you would. A pseudo thingy. A pseudo new
1? Yes.
I was caught off guard because at 1
point, our narrator mentions that he felt the
eye come over him. I'm like, oh, is
this some sort of, like, eye from the
dark tower or the Crimson king that's swoop
over and seeing where he is, but it
is in fact just the eye of... And
somebody looking at them and like, oh, there's
a hippie, but it was in all caps
and I'm like, oh, this is something important,
but it's just sort of that look you
get from people who know you don't belong.
So Pseudo city. Yeah. It was like a
thing that he elevated to a proper noun
status where you know when you walk into
a place where you feel unwelcome, you get
the eye.
Exactly.
The first thing that I encountered in the
story was a line. She comes to me
across a dark room with a stone floor,
and I smelled dry, October Roses.
And I don't know if I'm just kinda
pushing the envelope here with Minis, but basically,
anytime I see a rose in a Stephen
King story, I can't help but think of
a dark tower. The roses are so fundamentally
important to the tower that is hard to
ignore, and
The dry October roses thing. It's realistic, but
it's also
kind of romantic sounding.
There's a romance to flowers, and there's also
the fact that it's their October roses, some...
Something about that that linguistic
kind of seems poetic. Yeah.
But the realism also comes from the fact
that he's
smelling these roses
in a crypt
and there roses that have been left behind,
for months. Right. So they're they're they're abandoned
roses. They were an offering of, you know,
love or remembrance from somebody, but now they're
just kind of old. So all of this
works wonderfully together. It creates this imagery of
not not just like, you know, it's a
script that no one's visited in a long
time. But the Roses are still there and
they're still a form of decor. And
and this story happens right around Valentine's day
have not directly on Valentine's Day. Right? Yeah.
I think early in the story it says
it was the fourteenth of February. Yeah. So
that the roses is at another meeting on
top of that. Mh.
Valentine's days, but you're not getting the fresh
roads as you're getting the dry ones that
have been in a crypt. Yep. So we
have 2 characters who are mentioned in passing
Ver,
and Ace Merrill.
And both of these characters were from the
body, which was later adapted into stand by
me.
Portrayed by Jerry khan and key for Sutherland,
but direct connection between those characters and our
unnamed narrator.
And Ace Mer and in fact, the entire
mer family is
an important family in all of the Castle
rock stories that King wrote before and after
this,
there's pop Merrill. There's
I I can't think of all of them
off top of my head, but the mer
seem to have a big family in Castle
rock and every story seems to have at
least a passing mention of 1 of the
people in that family.
So it's kinda cool to see the the
mention here. Ace is just sort of the
local of hotshot bully type, which is exactly
who he is in the body. Right. King
needed 1 of those characters and just plug
them right in. Yeah. So a
a potential heart's in Atlanta thingy is that
there is a, girl mentioned Betsy Mall,
which Yeah. Could potentially be Ronnie sister if
I'm am not mistaken. Right? She's Ace Mer
girlfriend. Yes. Or a narrator has his eye
on to his detriment.
The I?
Not the eye in this case.
Yeah. And I thought it was kind of
interesting that if Betsy Mo is Ronnie sister,
which not sure if that story checks out
or if it's just a coincidence of... Last
name, but
she is kind of the
aesthetic opposite of her brother because Ronnie was
described as being, like,
kind of plain looking with really bad skin,
like he had pimples and stuff like that,
whereas
Betsy is you know, has a flawless complexion
and she's attractive.
So I guess not everybody looks too similar
in the mount family. I guess not.
So in both the narrator
hallucinations about the dance,
and then later on when No transforms
into the rat creature.
You get a sense of of these creatures
being like Can toy. Don't you like that
Revealing their crew masks
that only our narrator can see that... Oh,
here's what lies underneath their normal faces is
these awful
beast like creatures.
Right. And it's more of the
more of the meta commentary
that you mentioned earlier, where Like, at this
point, King has established
that there are these creatures in his universe.
The the Can are creatures that are various
different kinds of animals who
disguise themselves as human beings,
and many of them, you know, they have
the heads of a rat. So
That's not a big leap for us. No.
Right? Not at all. So it's like this
is a Stephen King story check.
Human sized rat creature check.
Can check.
Dark tower universe check. It all checks out.
Right? Yep. But I'm pretty sure that that's
not what King was doing here.
Our narrator has an obsession with rats. He
had a really...
Freaky experience when he was a kid, and
he saw a rat giving birth. Mh. And
after that, he was kind of scarred for
the rest of his life. And that took
place in the rat seller in the foster
home where he where he was raised, and
that's another 1 of the the Thin here,
because,
did I say rat seller? You did, which
I was gonna point out after you went
through it.
It was not a rat seller. It was
a root seller. Great. And so the thin
there is that it was a root seller
just like in Salem lot. The the root
seller was an important part of the conclusion
of Salem lot where a lot of the
final scenes took place. It's So I know
root sellers are probably fairly common in houses
of this type in this part of North
America, but Nevertheless,
here we are with another root seller just
like in Salem lot, and it's another place
where something kind of horrific happens. And forever
changes the psychological makeup of this character. Yeah.
And this was in the deleted scenes of
salem lots. But doctor Cody turns into a
pseudo rat creature when the actual rats sort
of take over his body last minute. Consume
him from the inside out, And and that
happens, of course, down in the seller of
the Marks house. So another connection to Salem
a lot. Which is also a lot like
the final... Or 1 of the final moments
of our narrator tail in the crypt where
he sees somehow for some reason, 1 of
his prior girlfriends. Yeah. Who has been, like,
turned into a, a giant, like, incubator for
more rats. Oh. Yep. I mean, it doesn't
take Freud to see the connection between his
childhood experience
and that vision vision he saw in the
crypt. Right? Right. Yeah. The this narrator has
some serious psychological
issues.
That all trace themselves back to the rats,
I think. And if I remember correctly, didn't
King talk about this with the spiders too
is why the Crimson King... Sort of mh.
Figured heavily in his mind because there were
spiders in a barn that freaked them out.
Yeah. Yeah. I think it was like a
psychological scar that he he got when he
was a kid just like this narrator did
with a rat. And the rat giving birth
in that scene, I think the creep part
of that was that a spider crawled across
the floor near enough to her face that
she was able to eat it. Yes. In
the midst of giving birth to her litter
of rats.
That freaked me out. I was like, oh,
she's, like, just eat spider her all of
a sudden. So King really knows how to
sprinkle on the extra extra... Spice
to make a creepy scene even creep beer.
And as we've been talking about in the
eyes of the dragon where King seems to
have it out for spiders 1 gets crushed
by flag, and another 1 turns to stone
as it's walking across a book. Here's another
1 where the spiders is in the wrong
place at the wrong time. Kia.
I mean, it's not like that rat that
was mobile at the time. Yes.
Oh,
alright. Well, For a, you know, 30 some
paid short story, there certainly were a lot
of finn across here.
Yeah. And there was a surprising amount of
fun stuff for such a
creepy little dark story. I'm sure you have
a couple and I'll start off with mine.
This is almost a thin. It's in itself
to about an hour before I started reading
this story,
I came across something about Be H O
from Musk sk, and I'd camera about it
was, I think it was an article in
a magazine or something I was like, oh
okay. And then I read the story and
daryl Moral H again. And then literally, the
next day had Jeopardy,
there was a clue about the song, and,
you know, obviously, I knew it right away
because it was... It it was a Merle
H saying this song about such and such
I'm like, oh, it's so from Musk sk,
and I was like, Man. And then I
thought to myself, you know?
Kyle works in mysterious ways, Jay. God does.
That's pretty cool.
Fun stuff I in my head was kind
of a a dull moment, although this could
also be an unreliable narrator thing. And that's
the shotgun stuff.
This is me putting on my pad pedantic
hat. I'm sorry. This is me putting on
my pe. At.
Do you ever take it off?
No. I
so the narrator gets into the cop car
and he notices that the cop has a
a shotgun in the cop car, which... Certainly,
today, most cops do this. It... There's a
special place to hold the shotgun right next
to the the driver's seat.
And he says, it was a shotgun.
Pump action. Right?
Those 2 words
were not necessary, but King wrote them,
and the editors left them in.
And then a few pages later, the narrator
talks about how he aimed the shotgun and
gave the the person he's shooting.
Both barrels,
and then later breaks the shotgun to reload
it.
Aside from 1 specialty shock gun on the
market that I'm aware of, and I'm no
gun expert by any means, but I did
use Google to help me look into this.
Seems legit. Pump shotgun
are not double barrel shotgun.
Double barrel shotgun are the ones that you
break to reload?
1 shot at a time in each barrel.
Pump shotgun guns are shotgun that you
that don't break open, they you load them.
With many shells and then you pump to
take the next shot. So
King has created an inconsistency here with the
shotgun,
which
again could either be unreliable narrator, make up
a whole bunch of nonsense in his story,
because he just doesn't know anything about guns
in Yada yada, or
there's just the a little mistake here in
the... The author slash editing process.
If you were to explain it via the
unreliable narrator, I would give you a marvel
no prize.
We've come full circle back to Steve Did
go.
A marvel, no prize. Yes. Alright. I'm gonna
set that on the mantle next to my
other no prizes.
The... This one's extra big because it's like
a superhero with hands on hips. Right. There
you go. Yeah.
Nice.
Whenever King drops references that I'm not aware
of, I always tend to look them up
to find out what's interesting about them, and
he talks about,
Sometimes there are faces you don't know like
some of those big stars, more like Elijah
Cook junior in, Mer,
and some child actor, you can't remember brandon
into wild maybe. And these are 3 actors
whose names I didn't know right away, but
the first 1 I should cook junior as
soon as I saw his face on Wikipedia.
I'm like, oh, yeah. That, dude.
He's 1 of those that guys. He was
in Malt Falcon
and House on haunted Hill and Rosemary baby.
But most interesting to Stephen King fans, he
played We Craig in the adaptation of Salem
lot. Snow way. Yeah. Direct connection between, this
reference in this story in salem lot, so
I guess Could have put that in the
Thin.
The second actress was Mere Cord, a who
was in all sorts of movies in the
fifties, A lot of monster movies, and she
was also a playboy play, and, film critic
Leonard Mo said Cord had more acting ability
than she was permitted to exhibit because she
was in all these trash movies, but
she was a standout from what I understand.
And then the third 1 was brandon dew
wild
who is best known for being nominated for
best supporting actor in Shane, and he was
the youngest ever nominated for an oscar at
that point in time, and he died early
in a car accident when he was in
his thirties, but an interesting fact about Brandon
Dew Wild, he was in an Alfred Hitchcock
presents,
episode in which he was a kid, and
he was watching a magician saw a lady
in half, and then he does the trick
himself except it's not a magic trick in
the ends up song the lady... A real
lady in half. Oh, man. And the film
station thought it was too gory to show
on Tv. And so they ended up ditching
the show, and they wouldn't they wouldn't allow
it to be shown. It was later packaged
in s
and Dvd, so it's not that you can't
see it, but you couldn't see it originally
on the regular run of Alfred Hitchcock presents.
So... Oh, So it was he the the
boy who be friend Shane? And
like, you, cries when he leaves town,
spoilers shane.
I don't remember to tell you the truth.
Because you say as a child actor, but
there were, I guess, a handful of children
age actors. He played Joey Star at if
that helps you.
But king always figures out these interesting people
to pull into his name drops. Yeah. I
mean, you and I have a lot of
fun with our... Off the cuff pop culture
references, but imagine having a conversation with King.
Yeah. Oh,
yeah.
My my knowledge doesn't start till the... Early
eighties, my alone his that goes back into
the fifties where he's pulling these names out.
Yep. And he's always kept on top of
it. So, like, Yeah. So he's... His library
is vast. Yes.
You would also recognize Elijah cook was in
a pretty famous episode of... Star trek. It
was the Court Martial episode, and pro portrayed
the lawyer,
Samuel Cog in that episode.
Okay. It's not a major character, but... No.
Not a major character. A pretty good guest
star. He did a bunch. He was trying
to arrest sp.
Yeah. Just well not stand. He did a
bunch of
good guest stars. He's got Magna Pi on
his list and the a team.
Oh.
Hey. Once you reach a team levels,
What more could you ask for?
I've got 1 last fun stuff Jay, and
that's
the narrator says, after that, I was just
the habit that's hard to break. Like smoking,
We're driving with your elbow poked out the
window.
And
I totally board of smoking. That is a
habit that is hard to break.
It's an addiction. It's terrible,
but driving while your elbows is out the
window, like, I don't see that as a
habit necessarily. And I'm not sure if it's
something you necessarily need or want to break.
But in king mind, I guess those things
are comparable. Right? Smoking and putting your elbow
out the window.
I remember hearing something about
this has to go back to the late
eighties,
maybe even a little earlier that there were
people who drove
so much, like truck drivers
or people who had jobs who kept them
in their cars or their vehicles for long,
long periods of time, and they got into
that habit. They would actually get sunburn and
then tan and
finally,
degraded skin. Yeah.
Just that part of their arm
because of that habit. And I guess that
if you did drive that way all the
time,
and it was a habit, you would find
yourself doing it and not realizing that you're,
you know, you're damaging your skin, and it's
like, you've got, like, 1 elbow that's looks
older than your other elbow. Right.
And so maybe you would wanna consciously
stop yourself from doing that. I thought you're
gonna talk about the rash of,
accidental elbow amp mutations that happened.
Yes.
Not to mention all the si mirrors that
were lost in all of those tragic accidents.
So you know how I prevent that from
happening for me, Jay, with the
worrying about the skin on 1 half of
my body. How. However much driving I do
in the United States. I matched that amount
in England so that my other elbows is
out the window.
I thought you're gonna say you put on
a long sleeve shirt.
But that's so much harder than going to
England.
It doesn't necessarily have to be England, but
at least 1 of the commonwealth countries.
Yeah.
Anywhere where they drive on the wrong side
of the road? Oh snap.
Jay were getting punchy. That must mean that
this is the end of this episode of
2 guys to the dark tower came. Thanks
Jay. Thank you. Links to all of our
social media is available in the show notes.
If you like the show, please rate us
on Apple Podcast podcasts.
For Jay Russo, I'm Sean.
Thanks for listening.
That's a fragment.