1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,380 It's a story too wild to be fiction, 2 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:11,059 yet it's all true. 3 00:00:11,439 --> 00:00:15,164 A secret alliance between America's most feared criminal 4 00:00:15,224 --> 00:00:15,724 syndicate 5 00:00:16,024 --> 00:00:18,605 and the highest levels of US intelligence. 6 00:00:19,384 --> 00:00:22,524 An audacious Cold War plot to assassinate 7 00:00:22,824 --> 00:00:23,804 Fidel Castro 8 00:00:24,504 --> 00:00:26,925 that reads like a James Bond screenplay, 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:29,059 but with more misfires, 10 00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:30,019 betrayals, 11 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,179 and bodies left behind. 12 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:35,619 The story begins in Havana, Cuba, 13 00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:39,060 where the mob made millions controlling casinos 14 00:00:39,855 --> 00:00:43,135 until Castro's revolution swept it all away in 15 00:00:43,135 --> 00:00:44,435 1959. 16 00:00:45,215 --> 00:00:47,475 And in the panicked of the Cold War, 17 00:00:47,855 --> 00:00:50,274 the CIA turned to the unthinkable, 18 00:00:51,454 --> 00:00:54,840 hiring mafia gangsters to do its dirty work. 19 00:01:05,479 --> 00:01:07,099 I sat down with investigative 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,185 reporter Thomas Mayer, whose book Mafia Spies 21 00:01:11,805 --> 00:01:14,224 blows the lid off one of American history's 22 00:01:14,364 --> 00:01:14,864 darkest 23 00:01:15,325 --> 00:01:16,864 and most secret chapters. 24 00:01:17,724 --> 00:01:20,545 Mayer and I have mutual friends among investigative 25 00:01:20,844 --> 00:01:21,344 journalists. 26 00:01:21,724 --> 00:01:23,344 He is among the best. 27 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,840 I've placed a link in the show notes 28 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,920 to help you keep track of the cast 29 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:28,579 of characters. 30 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,480 Mayer's journey into this twisted tale did not 31 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:33,700 start with the mafia. 32 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:35,780 It began with JFK 33 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,540 and the Kennedys. 34 00:01:38,775 --> 00:01:41,034 I've written previous books about the Kennedys. 35 00:01:41,415 --> 00:01:43,415 I wrote a book about twenty years ago 36 00:01:43,415 --> 00:01:46,155 about their Irish Catholic immigrant experience, 37 00:01:47,015 --> 00:01:48,935 and also wrote another book about ten years 38 00:01:48,935 --> 00:01:50,954 later about the Churchills and the Kennedys. 39 00:01:51,780 --> 00:01:54,599 In both those books, I did tangentially mention 40 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:57,879 the incident that happened with JFK and 41 00:01:58,180 --> 00:01:59,159 Judith Exner, 42 00:01:59,780 --> 00:02:03,060 who in Mafia Spies is generally known as 43 00:02:03,060 --> 00:02:05,700 Judy Campbell. That Judith Exner was her married 44 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:08,264 name. But it was a, an affair that 45 00:02:08,264 --> 00:02:09,165 involved JFK, 46 00:02:09,705 --> 00:02:12,425 a Chicago Mobster by the name of Sam 47 00:02:12,425 --> 00:02:12,925 Giancana, 48 00:02:13,544 --> 00:02:14,764 and Judy Campbell. 49 00:02:15,224 --> 00:02:17,305 And so even though I had mentioned them 50 00:02:17,305 --> 00:02:18,044 very briefly, 51 00:02:18,425 --> 00:02:21,245 I was intrigued about perhaps writing a book 52 00:02:21,465 --> 00:02:21,965 about, 53 00:02:22,479 --> 00:02:22,979 Giancana. 54 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,000 And I wasn't really sure if I had 55 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,860 enough meat on the bone, if you will, 56 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:28,900 to do a book 57 00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:31,680 by itself. And it wasn't until I did 58 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,860 more research, and I learned about, 59 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,939 this particular aspect of how the CIA hired 60 00:02:38,235 --> 00:02:39,534 both Sam Giancana 61 00:02:39,995 --> 00:02:41,854 and another really fascinating 62 00:02:42,314 --> 00:02:44,655 gangster by the name of Johnny Roselli. 63 00:02:45,034 --> 00:02:46,955 It wasn't until I found out about this 64 00:02:46,955 --> 00:02:48,655 plot to kill Castro 65 00:02:49,114 --> 00:02:50,974 by the CIA by hiring 66 00:02:51,354 --> 00:02:52,495 these two gangsters 67 00:02:52,849 --> 00:02:55,330 to go out and kill Castro during the 68 00:02:55,330 --> 00:02:57,889 Cold War, that I realized, that this was 69 00:02:57,889 --> 00:03:00,389 something that was really intriguing, particularly 70 00:03:00,689 --> 00:03:01,990 the friendship between 71 00:03:02,449 --> 00:03:02,949 Giancana 72 00:03:03,250 --> 00:03:05,169 and Roselli. It was almost like if you 73 00:03:05,169 --> 00:03:07,409 ever watch that movie Butch Cassidy and the 74 00:03:07,409 --> 00:03:10,224 Sundance Kid, it's kinda like these two outlaws 75 00:03:10,365 --> 00:03:12,685 who are hired by the government to to 76 00:03:12,685 --> 00:03:13,665 to do really 77 00:03:14,045 --> 00:03:15,504 a dastardly deed, 78 00:03:15,965 --> 00:03:17,665 and kill a foreign leader, 79 00:03:18,125 --> 00:03:20,365 Fidel Castro, at the height of the Cold 80 00:03:20,365 --> 00:03:20,865 War. 81 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,319 Set the scene of what the tension was 82 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:26,500 between The United States and Cuba. 83 00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:29,219 What was the vested interest of the mafia 84 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,659 in Cuba and then 85 00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:32,979 the US government, I e, the CIA? 86 00:03:33,705 --> 00:03:36,264 Well, in the late fifties, what happened there 87 00:03:36,264 --> 00:03:39,004 were two things that really shook the American 88 00:03:39,064 --> 00:03:40,364 government. One was, 89 00:03:40,985 --> 00:03:43,564 the the shooting off of the Sputnik 90 00:03:44,104 --> 00:03:46,680 rocket. It was the first thing into outer 91 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:47,180 space, 92 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:49,900 and that was sent up by the Russians. 93 00:03:50,039 --> 00:03:51,739 And so that really 94 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,479 threw off the US government because we came 95 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:57,419 out of World War two very preeminent. 96 00:03:57,959 --> 00:04:00,039 We were the first ones to develop the 97 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:00,525 bomb. 98 00:04:00,844 --> 00:04:02,784 So the idea of having 99 00:04:03,164 --> 00:04:06,764 a rocket that could conceivably have a have 100 00:04:06,764 --> 00:04:09,405 a an atomic bomb attached to it, that 101 00:04:09,405 --> 00:04:12,224 really sent shutters through official Washington. 102 00:04:12,604 --> 00:04:15,405 But the other satellite, if you will, was 103 00:04:15,405 --> 00:04:17,240 the creation of Cuba 104 00:04:17,779 --> 00:04:21,720 as a satellite of the Soviet Union, Russia, 105 00:04:22,019 --> 00:04:23,000 at that time. 106 00:04:23,379 --> 00:04:23,779 And, 107 00:04:24,259 --> 00:04:26,600 the revolution led by Fidel Castro 108 00:04:27,379 --> 00:04:28,279 really sent, 109 00:04:28,819 --> 00:04:31,634 again, shivers down the the spines of the 110 00:04:31,714 --> 00:04:34,355 the US government. And so we couldn't do 111 00:04:34,355 --> 00:04:35,574 anything about shooting 112 00:04:35,955 --> 00:04:38,915 Sputnik out of the sky, but the decision 113 00:04:38,915 --> 00:04:40,694 was made that, Castro 114 00:04:41,314 --> 00:04:43,574 had such held such a 115 00:04:44,259 --> 00:04:46,819 a threat to the defense and the security 116 00:04:46,819 --> 00:04:49,620 of The United States that something had to 117 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:51,959 be done about it. And it was approved 118 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:54,039 by president Eisenhower 119 00:04:54,579 --> 00:04:56,199 at the end of his administration, 120 00:04:56,819 --> 00:04:57,959 and it was adopted 121 00:04:58,414 --> 00:04:59,794 by the Kennedy administration, 122 00:05:00,654 --> 00:05:02,274 in the early nineteen sixties. 123 00:05:03,454 --> 00:05:06,414 So the Kennedy administration was aware that there 124 00:05:06,414 --> 00:05:09,235 was a plot to assassinate Castro? You know, 125 00:05:09,774 --> 00:05:12,095 they have said no. You know, people who 126 00:05:12,095 --> 00:05:12,974 associated with, 127 00:05:13,550 --> 00:05:16,350 president Kennedy's administration have said no. But when 128 00:05:16,350 --> 00:05:17,490 you look at the papers, 129 00:05:18,350 --> 00:05:21,310 these documents that particularly have been released in 130 00:05:21,310 --> 00:05:22,209 recent years 131 00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:24,850 pertaining to the JFK assassination, 132 00:05:25,230 --> 00:05:27,524 a lot of them have to do with 133 00:05:27,524 --> 00:05:30,264 the operation by the CIA in Florida. 134 00:05:30,725 --> 00:05:32,664 Essentially, we were running an undeclared 135 00:05:32,964 --> 00:05:33,464 war 136 00:05:33,845 --> 00:05:35,544 out of, the Miami, 137 00:05:37,204 --> 00:05:38,425 the, the Keys area, 138 00:05:39,444 --> 00:05:40,104 of of 139 00:05:40,850 --> 00:05:44,209 Florida. And so even though there's been denials 140 00:05:44,209 --> 00:05:45,750 about it, we were definitely 141 00:05:46,449 --> 00:05:50,389 trying to kill Castro. And, certainly, Bobby Kennedy 142 00:05:50,689 --> 00:05:53,269 was aware of that. Even despite the denials, 143 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:55,430 when you look at all of the papers, 144 00:05:56,014 --> 00:05:56,754 it's impossible, 145 00:05:57,134 --> 00:05:59,055 it seems to me. I mean, Bobby Kennedy 146 00:05:59,055 --> 00:06:00,995 was flying down to Florida 147 00:06:01,295 --> 00:06:03,295 during the course of this. He was in 148 00:06:03,535 --> 00:06:05,455 he would he had his hands all over 149 00:06:05,455 --> 00:06:07,694 this. He was the attorney general, but he 150 00:06:07,694 --> 00:06:10,649 was, almost in essence, the head of the 151 00:06:10,649 --> 00:06:11,149 CIA 152 00:06:11,529 --> 00:06:12,990 overseeing this operation 153 00:06:13,610 --> 00:06:16,410 to overthrow the Castro government. Well, and here 154 00:06:16,410 --> 00:06:19,050 he is, the attorney general, yet the US 155 00:06:19,050 --> 00:06:21,449 government forms an alliance with the mafia, a 156 00:06:21,449 --> 00:06:22,589 criminal organization. 157 00:06:22,970 --> 00:06:23,470 And 158 00:06:23,805 --> 00:06:25,004 do they end up kind of giving them 159 00:06:25,004 --> 00:06:27,504 a free pass on their criminal activities? 160 00:06:28,524 --> 00:06:30,384 Well, you know, it's interesting because 161 00:06:31,004 --> 00:06:32,685 particularly on that point, 162 00:06:33,164 --> 00:06:33,745 the Kennedys, 163 00:06:34,125 --> 00:06:36,285 Bobby Kennedy claimed that he didn't know anything 164 00:06:36,285 --> 00:06:39,084 about it. It's hard to really believe that, 165 00:06:39,084 --> 00:06:39,584 frankly, 166 00:06:40,180 --> 00:06:42,259 given all of the evidence, all of the 167 00:06:42,259 --> 00:06:42,759 documents, 168 00:06:43,220 --> 00:06:45,000 and all of his deep participation 169 00:06:46,019 --> 00:06:48,339 in in this. So, yeah, I I think 170 00:06:48,339 --> 00:06:50,519 what was interesting about the the mafia, 171 00:06:50,819 --> 00:06:51,319 Giancana, 172 00:06:51,779 --> 00:06:55,139 Sam Giancana, and Johnny Roselli with this, is 173 00:06:55,139 --> 00:06:55,639 that 174 00:06:56,235 --> 00:06:57,375 they thought by 175 00:06:57,754 --> 00:06:59,995 agreeing with Frank Sinatra, who was a pal 176 00:06:59,995 --> 00:07:01,615 of Giancana's and Roselli's, 177 00:07:02,475 --> 00:07:06,095 Sinatra was a very prominent supporter of JFK 178 00:07:06,314 --> 00:07:08,014 in the nineteen sixty election. 179 00:07:08,634 --> 00:07:10,495 And they felt by supporting 180 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,040 the the Kennedy effort that they would go 181 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:14,540 easy 182 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,800 on them. In fact, when Bobby Kennedy became 183 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,520 attorney general, though, he put up he put 184 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,540 more of the heat on the mafia 185 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,199 than had, than had ever been before. And 186 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:28,675 so Xi and Khan and Roselli were really 187 00:07:28,675 --> 00:07:29,175 upset, 188 00:07:29,875 --> 00:07:33,154 as the Kennedys came to power that they 189 00:07:33,154 --> 00:07:35,735 essentially betrayed or, at least in their perception, 190 00:07:36,354 --> 00:07:36,854 betrayed 191 00:07:37,235 --> 00:07:39,930 the promise of going easy, getting a getting, 192 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:42,189 like, a get out of jail free card. 193 00:07:42,410 --> 00:07:44,330 And in fact, they were being chased by 194 00:07:44,330 --> 00:07:44,990 the FBI 195 00:07:45,449 --> 00:07:46,350 more than ever. 196 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:49,629 Well, when you have this alliance, 197 00:07:50,490 --> 00:07:53,069 they start cooking up these schemes to assassinate 198 00:07:54,894 --> 00:07:57,954 Castro. And it's it's James Bond esque. 199 00:07:58,334 --> 00:08:00,654 But it, like to me, it becomes the 200 00:08:00,654 --> 00:08:02,354 gang that couldn't shoot straight. 201 00:08:03,535 --> 00:08:05,694 Yeah. You know, I I think I that 202 00:08:05,694 --> 00:08:08,735 aspect of the almost the, dark comedy or 203 00:08:08,735 --> 00:08:12,050 comedic aspect of of this, particularly when you 204 00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:14,310 look back with some degree of perspective 205 00:08:14,850 --> 00:08:15,350 historically. 206 00:08:15,970 --> 00:08:19,009 Or certainly in, my book was made into 207 00:08:19,009 --> 00:08:20,149 a TV series 208 00:08:20,449 --> 00:08:21,750 on Paramount plus 209 00:08:22,050 --> 00:08:23,889 by the same name, Mafia Spice. And I 210 00:08:23,889 --> 00:08:26,264 think we kinda capture that as well in 211 00:08:26,264 --> 00:08:28,024 the TV show, both the book and the 212 00:08:28,024 --> 00:08:28,764 TV show. 213 00:08:29,144 --> 00:08:30,604 There was a certain level 214 00:08:31,064 --> 00:08:33,945 of craziness about the whole thing that I 215 00:08:33,945 --> 00:08:36,745 think is captured in both. Try to portray 216 00:08:36,745 --> 00:08:39,725 that. I I think there's a level of 217 00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:40,409 hubris, 218 00:08:40,789 --> 00:08:42,230 a a word that we don't hear hear 219 00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:45,269 too much. But hubris, the whole idea that, 220 00:08:45,590 --> 00:08:46,570 whatever I do 221 00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:48,409 will be fine, it will 222 00:08:48,950 --> 00:08:49,529 will never 223 00:08:49,990 --> 00:08:51,289 blow up in my face, 224 00:08:51,590 --> 00:08:53,504 and that this is well intentioned. 225 00:08:53,884 --> 00:08:56,284 And that wasn't the case. It was very 226 00:08:56,284 --> 00:08:59,245 poorly thought out, and it was very suspect 227 00:08:59,245 --> 00:09:01,404 in terms of getting involved. The idea of 228 00:09:01,404 --> 00:09:02,384 the the 229 00:09:02,764 --> 00:09:05,959 United States government getting involved with the mafia 230 00:09:06,659 --> 00:09:09,940 was suspect to begin with, but the fact 231 00:09:09,940 --> 00:09:13,459 that, the attorney general of United States was 232 00:09:13,459 --> 00:09:15,860 overseeing an operation that had any type of 233 00:09:15,860 --> 00:09:16,360 component 234 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:20,019 with organized crime is something that remained a 235 00:09:20,019 --> 00:09:22,735 secret for for about ten years afterwards. 236 00:09:23,355 --> 00:09:25,035 The all of this really didn't come out 237 00:09:25,035 --> 00:09:28,235 until the mid nineteen seventies, and still many 238 00:09:28,235 --> 00:09:30,875 details are are still coming out with some 239 00:09:30,875 --> 00:09:33,915 of these JFK assassination papers. But it does 240 00:09:33,915 --> 00:09:36,254 give you pause about the overall 241 00:09:36,759 --> 00:09:38,459 judgment of the Kennedy administration. 242 00:09:38,839 --> 00:09:40,440 Well, one of the methods they'd come up 243 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,339 with to kill Castro was a a poison 244 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:44,860 cigar with botulism 245 00:09:45,399 --> 00:09:46,459 in it and stuff. 246 00:09:47,079 --> 00:09:48,919 Did that come out of the James Bond 247 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:49,419 movie? 248 00:09:49,804 --> 00:09:51,725 I mean, it it none of this stuff 249 00:09:51,725 --> 00:09:52,544 ever worked. 250 00:09:53,565 --> 00:09:55,644 Right. Well, I guess if you come up 251 00:09:55,644 --> 00:09:57,745 with the idea by watching a movie, 252 00:09:58,365 --> 00:10:00,365 maybe Yeah. That may be that may be 253 00:10:00,365 --> 00:10:01,980 the grounds why it doesn't work. 254 00:10:02,699 --> 00:10:04,639 It is fictional to begin with. 255 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,339 You know, it's interesting to me in in 256 00:10:07,339 --> 00:10:10,220 looking at this time period, the Bond movies 257 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:11,839 were just getting off the ground. 258 00:10:12,299 --> 00:10:14,159 JFK was a big fan 259 00:10:14,539 --> 00:10:17,679 of James Bond novels. So was Jackie Kennedy. 260 00:10:18,035 --> 00:10:20,235 Jackie Kennedy actually sent a copy of one 261 00:10:20,235 --> 00:10:21,815 of the James Bond novels 262 00:10:22,195 --> 00:10:24,695 to the head of the CIA, Allen Dulles. 263 00:10:25,154 --> 00:10:27,315 And Dulles also heard at at a dinner 264 00:10:27,315 --> 00:10:27,815 party 265 00:10:28,274 --> 00:10:30,695 that the creator of James Bond, 266 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:31,740 Ian Fleming, 267 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,500 was invited to JFK's 268 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,259 residence for a dinner party. And so Dulles, 269 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,259 who wanted to keep his job, 270 00:10:39,879 --> 00:10:42,200 decided to keep the president happy and his 271 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,715 wife happy and and all of those fans 272 00:10:44,715 --> 00:10:47,754 for James Bond that he directed people in 273 00:10:47,754 --> 00:10:49,595 the CIA to see if that any of 274 00:10:49,595 --> 00:10:50,415 these ideas 275 00:10:50,795 --> 00:10:54,095 from James Bond films might might be doable. 276 00:10:54,154 --> 00:10:55,995 We might be able to take some of 277 00:10:55,995 --> 00:11:00,480 these ideas, exploding cigars or or, other type 278 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,299 of devices, 279 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:05,459 gadgets that somehow could be killing devices. 280 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,100 These were all suddenly the focus 281 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,440 of a lab at the CIA. The other 282 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,754 thing I found interesting then is that this 283 00:11:14,154 --> 00:11:15,375 assassination conspiracy 284 00:11:16,315 --> 00:11:17,455 meetings unfold 285 00:11:17,835 --> 00:11:18,735 at the Fontainebleau 286 00:11:19,674 --> 00:11:20,174 Hotel 287 00:11:20,794 --> 00:11:23,035 in Miami, which is the big scene of 288 00:11:23,035 --> 00:11:24,654 one of the James Bond movies, 289 00:11:25,355 --> 00:11:28,230 and in Vegas, which is another big setting 290 00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:30,090 for the early James Bond movies. 291 00:11:30,950 --> 00:11:31,690 It is. 292 00:11:32,149 --> 00:11:32,649 Goldfinger, 293 00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:36,149 it begins with somebody jumping off of a 294 00:11:36,149 --> 00:11:38,809 very high diving board at the Fontainebleau Hotel 295 00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:41,429 in Miami Beach. Miami Beach is, 296 00:11:42,004 --> 00:11:43,625 well, specifically, the Fontainebleau 297 00:11:44,084 --> 00:11:46,184 is a fascinating scene 298 00:11:46,565 --> 00:11:47,945 that because the 299 00:11:48,325 --> 00:11:50,664 the the big first meeting between 300 00:11:51,125 --> 00:11:51,625 the 301 00:11:52,714 --> 00:11:53,945 the, CIA 302 00:11:54,830 --> 00:11:58,529 and the mafia takes place at the Fontainebleau. 303 00:11:59,230 --> 00:12:02,529 And it's around the same time that Sinatra 304 00:12:02,669 --> 00:12:04,529 is appearing at the Fontainebleau. 305 00:12:04,990 --> 00:12:07,730 He's hanging out with Sam Giancana, the gangster, 306 00:12:08,205 --> 00:12:10,605 who's getting involved in all of this plot 307 00:12:10,605 --> 00:12:13,264 to kill Castro along with Johnny Roselli. 308 00:12:13,725 --> 00:12:14,225 And 309 00:12:14,605 --> 00:12:15,904 Sinatra is filming 310 00:12:16,285 --> 00:12:17,665 a TV special 311 00:12:18,045 --> 00:12:18,785 at the Fontainebleau 312 00:12:19,325 --> 00:12:21,644 with Elvis. Actually, you could go on to 313 00:12:21,644 --> 00:12:23,080 YouTube and actually 314 00:12:23,540 --> 00:12:25,639 see Elvis and Frank Sinatra singing, 315 00:12:26,419 --> 00:12:28,660 together. And that's at the Fontainebleau during the 316 00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:30,980 same time period. And then we see other 317 00:12:30,980 --> 00:12:33,379 meetings in Vegas, which in those days, the 318 00:12:33,379 --> 00:12:34,519 mob controlled. 319 00:12:35,894 --> 00:12:37,434 Right. Well, Las Vegas, 320 00:12:37,894 --> 00:12:39,115 particularly became 321 00:12:39,495 --> 00:12:39,995 important. 322 00:12:40,695 --> 00:12:41,434 Las Vegas, 323 00:12:42,615 --> 00:12:44,875 the Las Vegas that we know, its origins 324 00:12:45,095 --> 00:12:45,595 became, 325 00:12:46,615 --> 00:12:49,509 started right after World War two. But at 326 00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:50,649 that time period, 327 00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:53,269 Cuba was still the place that had its 328 00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:54,089 own casinos, 329 00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:56,169 were was run by the mob. 330 00:12:56,549 --> 00:12:59,350 In the fifties, most Americans, certainly on the 331 00:12:59,350 --> 00:13:02,004 East Coast during the winter months, they didn't 332 00:13:02,004 --> 00:13:04,485 go to Las Vegas. They would go to 333 00:13:04,485 --> 00:13:06,565 Havana. And there are a number of different 334 00:13:06,565 --> 00:13:09,464 casinos, including one that was run specifically 335 00:13:10,245 --> 00:13:10,745 by, 336 00:13:11,284 --> 00:13:14,824 Sam Giancana and Johnny Roselli, the San Sushi. 337 00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:18,399 But there are other mob controlled casinos. 338 00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,200 When Castro came to power 339 00:13:21,659 --> 00:13:23,360 in 1959, 340 00:13:23,659 --> 00:13:24,720 he shut down 341 00:13:25,179 --> 00:13:27,899 all of the American casinos, all of the 342 00:13:27,899 --> 00:13:30,845 American businesses, but he shut shut down all 343 00:13:30,845 --> 00:13:32,304 of the mob controlled 344 00:13:32,684 --> 00:13:35,404 casinos as well. So that's where it it 345 00:13:35,404 --> 00:13:38,384 really gave a big boost to, Las Vegas. 346 00:13:38,764 --> 00:13:41,024 But that was also why the mob, 347 00:13:41,325 --> 00:13:43,964 who was now losing millions of dollars that 348 00:13:43,964 --> 00:13:46,429 they used to make in Havana. That's why 349 00:13:46,429 --> 00:13:48,129 the mob was so angry 350 00:13:48,589 --> 00:13:51,250 with Castro and what had happened in Cuba. 351 00:13:51,709 --> 00:13:54,289 Did Sam Giancana, who was out of Chicago, 352 00:13:54,429 --> 00:13:57,230 become involved because he had lost so much 353 00:13:57,230 --> 00:13:57,730 money 354 00:13:58,509 --> 00:13:59,490 down in Cuba? 355 00:14:00,325 --> 00:14:01,464 Tell us about him. 356 00:14:01,845 --> 00:14:04,004 I think so. I used to work as 357 00:14:04,004 --> 00:14:06,884 a reporter for the Chicago Sun Times, and 358 00:14:06,884 --> 00:14:08,804 that was also part of the rationale for 359 00:14:08,804 --> 00:14:11,544 me, the curiosity that I had about Gina 360 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:14,659 as a figure. But, fundamentally, yeah, it's about 361 00:14:14,659 --> 00:14:17,000 money. Money, money, money, money. 362 00:14:17,379 --> 00:14:19,700 The outfit, the the mob as the mob 363 00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:20,840 was known in Chicago, 364 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:22,600 was headed by Giancana 365 00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:25,915 at that time period. It was on the 366 00:14:25,915 --> 00:14:29,035 scale of a Fortune 500 company in terms 367 00:14:29,035 --> 00:14:30,014 of its revenues. 368 00:14:30,795 --> 00:14:32,795 And so it was all about money. And 369 00:14:32,795 --> 00:14:34,014 so when they lost, 370 00:14:34,715 --> 00:14:36,014 the casinos 371 00:14:36,634 --> 00:14:39,115 in in Havana, it was a place where 372 00:14:39,115 --> 00:14:41,750 the mob ruled. In fact, Meyer Lansky, 373 00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:43,110 another gangster, 374 00:14:43,649 --> 00:14:46,290 was appointed by the Cuban government as the 375 00:14:46,290 --> 00:14:47,190 head of tourism 376 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:50,210 and such. So it was it was a 377 00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:52,710 little heaven, if you will, for the mafia 378 00:14:52,769 --> 00:14:54,309 and all of its nefarious 379 00:14:54,769 --> 00:14:55,269 activities. 380 00:14:55,904 --> 00:14:57,365 And and Sam Giancana 381 00:14:58,304 --> 00:14:59,524 had big ambitions. 382 00:14:59,985 --> 00:15:03,264 And so his friendship with Johnny Roselli really 383 00:15:03,264 --> 00:15:05,904 was a a a a reflection of those 384 00:15:05,904 --> 00:15:08,804 ambitions as well, because they got involved 385 00:15:09,184 --> 00:15:09,845 not only, 386 00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:13,690 with Las Vegas and and running things in 387 00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:16,709 in Cuba, but the idea of now getting 388 00:15:16,709 --> 00:15:17,929 involved with the government, 389 00:15:18,309 --> 00:15:19,450 becoming hitmen 390 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:21,049 for the CIA, 391 00:15:21,589 --> 00:15:22,570 that was extraordinary. 392 00:15:23,514 --> 00:15:25,195 That's the type of thing that the average 393 00:15:25,195 --> 00:15:27,595 mobster didn't do. They were concerned about, like, 394 00:15:27,595 --> 00:15:29,375 local stuff, local gambling, 395 00:15:29,914 --> 00:15:33,195 numbers, rackets, stuff like that. No. These two 396 00:15:33,195 --> 00:15:35,914 guys, Roselli and Gene Conner, they were talking 397 00:15:35,914 --> 00:15:38,735 about getting involved in entertainment, the movies, 398 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,519 and and they certainly got involved with the 399 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:42,019 CIA. 400 00:15:47,039 --> 00:15:49,759 Was Roselli the connection to the CIA? How 401 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:52,735 do they how do they make that connection? 402 00:15:53,115 --> 00:15:54,654 Yeah. It's it is 403 00:15:55,195 --> 00:15:57,514 a little bit of a complicated one. But, 404 00:15:57,514 --> 00:15:59,855 yes, Johnny Roselli was the main 405 00:16:00,235 --> 00:16:00,735 connection. 406 00:16:01,195 --> 00:16:01,934 He knew 407 00:16:02,394 --> 00:16:03,134 a guy 408 00:16:03,434 --> 00:16:07,054 named Bill Harvey, who was known as the 409 00:16:07,379 --> 00:16:09,700 James Bond, the real life James Bond of 410 00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:11,299 the CIA. I think there's a couple of 411 00:16:11,299 --> 00:16:14,500 people that can make that claim. But, certainly, 412 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:16,040 Harvey was a very successful 413 00:16:16,660 --> 00:16:18,840 spy for the CIA over in Europe, 414 00:16:19,299 --> 00:16:19,799 and 415 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:21,399 he was acquainted 416 00:16:22,125 --> 00:16:26,304 with, Johnny Roselli. And so the connections there 417 00:16:26,845 --> 00:16:29,105 were part of it, part of the story. 418 00:16:29,485 --> 00:16:31,184 But there was also a middleman 419 00:16:31,884 --> 00:16:34,065 involved in this. And he also, 420 00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:35,449 this middleman 421 00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:39,209 worked for Howard Hughes, the the then 422 00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:41,829 the wealthiest man in The United States. And 423 00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:44,889 it was, through that middleman that the CIA 424 00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:47,929 was connected to Johnny Roselli, and and Roselli 425 00:16:48,544 --> 00:16:49,044 recruited, 426 00:16:50,065 --> 00:16:50,804 Sam Giancana 427 00:16:51,424 --> 00:16:52,644 into this whole 428 00:16:53,024 --> 00:16:54,324 escapade, if you will. 429 00:16:54,944 --> 00:16:56,625 For those that don't know, 430 00:16:57,345 --> 00:17:00,164 Howard Hughes was the Elon Musk of today. 431 00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:03,079 Right. I was about to say that. Yes. 432 00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:04,619 Yeah. And it He was. 433 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,299 All kinds of technology. 434 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,679 But that connection to Hughes is what, Robert 435 00:17:10,679 --> 00:17:11,179 Mayhew? 436 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,980 Right. Exactly. His name was Robert Mayhew. 437 00:17:14,634 --> 00:17:17,755 And really a fascinating character because he had 438 00:17:17,755 --> 00:17:19,214 been an FBI agent, 439 00:17:19,595 --> 00:17:21,375 had a lot of friends in the CIA, 440 00:17:21,994 --> 00:17:24,154 and he had done other jobs for the 441 00:17:24,154 --> 00:17:26,634 CIA, the type of jobs that the CIA 442 00:17:26,634 --> 00:17:28,875 didn't didn't wanna get its hands dirty, if 443 00:17:28,875 --> 00:17:31,470 you will. And so they kinda hired out 444 00:17:31,690 --> 00:17:33,849 people that they trusted, and Mayhew was one 445 00:17:33,849 --> 00:17:36,089 of those people. And it was Mayhew who 446 00:17:36,089 --> 00:17:39,150 knew Roselli pretty well. He had invited Roselli 447 00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:41,849 to a backyard party, and that's where there 448 00:17:41,849 --> 00:17:43,904 was a couple of CIA people there. That's 449 00:17:43,904 --> 00:17:46,384 where they met Johnny Roselli. So when the 450 00:17:46,384 --> 00:17:49,025 subject came up from very up on high 451 00:17:49,025 --> 00:17:50,965 from the White House and from the upper 452 00:17:51,025 --> 00:17:53,585 reaches of the CIA that we wanna get 453 00:17:53,585 --> 00:17:54,325 rid of, 454 00:17:55,105 --> 00:17:56,164 Fidel Castro, 455 00:17:56,945 --> 00:17:58,545 they said, well, how do we do this 456 00:17:58,545 --> 00:17:59,045 without, 457 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,380 getting it connected directly to to us? 458 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,140 And so they employed 459 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:05,980 Robert Mayhew, 460 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,160 and then Mayhew recruited the mob into this 461 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:09,980 whole scheme 462 00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:11,339 to kill Castro. 463 00:18:12,065 --> 00:18:14,065 And these people in the spy craft are 464 00:18:14,065 --> 00:18:15,605 usually referred to as 465 00:18:16,065 --> 00:18:16,565 cutouts. 466 00:18:17,505 --> 00:18:18,005 Yes. 467 00:18:18,944 --> 00:18:19,605 They have 468 00:18:19,984 --> 00:18:21,605 a language unto themselves, 469 00:18:22,785 --> 00:18:25,490 the whole spy world does, and Cutout is 470 00:18:25,490 --> 00:18:27,809 one of those. But, essentially, he was a 471 00:18:27,809 --> 00:18:29,730 he was a a go between. He was 472 00:18:29,730 --> 00:18:30,470 an intermediary. 473 00:18:31,089 --> 00:18:32,069 He was a middleman 474 00:18:32,609 --> 00:18:33,109 between, 475 00:18:33,730 --> 00:18:36,309 or if you ever watched the, Godfather 476 00:18:36,769 --> 00:18:37,250 movies, 477 00:18:37,649 --> 00:18:39,825 there's at one point where somebody says, the 478 00:18:39,825 --> 00:18:41,365 family has a lot of buffers. 479 00:18:41,904 --> 00:18:42,404 Well, 480 00:18:42,704 --> 00:18:44,804 Mayu was, in a way, a buffer 481 00:18:45,184 --> 00:18:47,684 for the CIA. It was a way of 482 00:18:48,224 --> 00:18:48,724 implementing 483 00:18:49,184 --> 00:18:50,964 their plans to kill Castro 484 00:18:51,424 --> 00:18:51,924 without, 485 00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:55,080 in their eyes, hopefully getting directly, 486 00:18:55,859 --> 00:18:56,680 held responsible 487 00:18:57,059 --> 00:18:59,480 for it. But, of course, that didn't happen. 488 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,099 Eventually, it all came out. And then part 489 00:19:02,099 --> 00:19:03,859 of the plot to overthrowing was the Bay 490 00:19:03,859 --> 00:19:04,839 of Pigs invasion, 491 00:19:05,539 --> 00:19:06,039 which 492 00:19:06,355 --> 00:19:08,914 broke down, fell apart. Yeah. This was an 493 00:19:08,914 --> 00:19:11,954 attempt this was the big attempt to overthrow 494 00:19:11,954 --> 00:19:13,174 the Castro government. 495 00:19:13,714 --> 00:19:16,595 The Cuban Americans who fled to Florida were 496 00:19:16,595 --> 00:19:18,134 trained by the CIA. 497 00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:20,549 They had a base down in Florida. 498 00:19:21,009 --> 00:19:23,490 They they were trained in other countries as 499 00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:26,210 well, but but there was a big effort 500 00:19:26,210 --> 00:19:27,190 to train people 501 00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:28,309 in Florida. 502 00:19:29,089 --> 00:19:31,250 And that was it was remarkable to me 503 00:19:31,250 --> 00:19:32,295 that we could run, 504 00:19:32,615 --> 00:19:34,555 essentially, an undeclared war 505 00:19:34,855 --> 00:19:37,174 in Florida, and it really did not come 506 00:19:37,174 --> 00:19:37,674 out. 507 00:19:37,975 --> 00:19:40,134 People were not even fact, there there was 508 00:19:40,134 --> 00:19:42,535 one incident where there was some type of 509 00:19:42,535 --> 00:19:43,035 shooting 510 00:19:43,414 --> 00:19:43,914 incident, 511 00:19:44,215 --> 00:19:48,130 and the the local newspaper in Miami found 512 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:49,890 out about it. And they were gonna write 513 00:19:49,890 --> 00:19:52,690 a story about it. And the CIA and 514 00:19:52,690 --> 00:19:53,589 the the, 515 00:19:54,210 --> 00:19:55,109 US government 516 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:56,630 contacted the newspaper, 517 00:19:57,009 --> 00:19:59,429 and they decided not to run the story. 518 00:19:59,650 --> 00:20:02,130 What ends up happening to Sam Giancana and 519 00:20:02,130 --> 00:20:03,224 Johnny Roselli, the 520 00:20:04,025 --> 00:20:04,605 two mobsters 521 00:20:05,224 --> 00:20:06,924 that got into bed with the CIA? 522 00:20:07,464 --> 00:20:09,164 The friendship between 523 00:20:09,544 --> 00:20:10,365 Sam Giancana 524 00:20:10,825 --> 00:20:11,964 and Johnny Roselli, 525 00:20:12,984 --> 00:20:14,664 fascinated me. I think that was one of 526 00:20:14,664 --> 00:20:15,565 the big appeals 527 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,779 of of this book on a personal level. 528 00:20:18,919 --> 00:20:21,319 Just their friendship they had started together in 529 00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:24,839 Chicago. Johnny goes out to Hollywood. He's sent 530 00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:27,799 by Al Capone out there because Johnny suffered 531 00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:28,619 from tuberculosis. 532 00:20:29,365 --> 00:20:31,605 Johnny becomes kinda the mob guy out in 533 00:20:31,605 --> 00:20:33,684 Las Vegas. He was a fixer out there. 534 00:20:33,684 --> 00:20:35,784 He knew a lot of the studio heads. 535 00:20:36,164 --> 00:20:39,204 Sam Jean kinda rises to the head of 536 00:20:39,204 --> 00:20:40,664 the Chicago mob. 537 00:20:41,444 --> 00:20:42,184 His wife 538 00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:43,099 drops 539 00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:46,599 dead, screaming at their kids. They she has 540 00:20:46,679 --> 00:20:48,619 they have three daughters, and suddenly, 541 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,140 Sam Jean kinda finds himself as bachelor father. 542 00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:53,099 Johnny 543 00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:54,859 is kind of a Casanova 544 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,579 character. So these two men together, 545 00:20:58,174 --> 00:21:00,414 to me, just on a personal level, was 546 00:21:00,414 --> 00:21:00,914 fascinating, 547 00:21:01,454 --> 00:21:02,755 how they interacted 548 00:21:03,214 --> 00:21:05,454 with them and with Sinatra, the Rat Pack, 549 00:21:05,454 --> 00:21:06,115 and such. 550 00:21:06,815 --> 00:21:08,914 I think getting involved with the CIA 551 00:21:09,694 --> 00:21:11,954 was part of the ambition that Giancana 552 00:21:12,255 --> 00:21:14,049 had, which was to 553 00:21:14,509 --> 00:21:17,490 grow the mob outside of just Chicago 554 00:21:18,109 --> 00:21:18,609 into, 555 00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:21,170 not not only domestically, 556 00:21:21,710 --> 00:21:24,589 but even in international places like Cuba and 557 00:21:24,589 --> 00:21:27,794 other other places internationally, particularly in terms of 558 00:21:27,794 --> 00:21:28,294 casinos 559 00:21:28,595 --> 00:21:30,595 and things of that nature, things that would 560 00:21:30,595 --> 00:21:33,554 make big, big money, not petty anti type 561 00:21:33,554 --> 00:21:34,214 of gambling. 562 00:21:34,835 --> 00:21:36,454 And so the the relationship 563 00:21:36,835 --> 00:21:37,335 between, 564 00:21:38,115 --> 00:21:41,394 Roselli and and Giancana was based upon their 565 00:21:41,394 --> 00:21:42,294 own ambitions 566 00:21:43,159 --> 00:21:45,319 and and and and getting involved with the 567 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:45,819 CIA. 568 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,679 Thinking that if they if they did a 569 00:21:48,679 --> 00:21:52,039 favor for the CIA by killing Castro, not 570 00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:54,059 only would they get back into Cuba, 571 00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:56,085 but they would have a 572 00:21:56,644 --> 00:21:59,044 won over on the on the government. They 573 00:21:59,044 --> 00:22:00,404 would they would have a get out of 574 00:22:00,404 --> 00:22:01,784 jail free card. 575 00:22:02,244 --> 00:22:02,744 And, 576 00:22:03,284 --> 00:22:04,105 that sounded 577 00:22:04,565 --> 00:22:06,724 very attractive to them, and that's really why 578 00:22:06,724 --> 00:22:07,625 they got involved 579 00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:10,259 in all of this. And what ends up 580 00:22:10,259 --> 00:22:11,240 happening to them 581 00:22:11,619 --> 00:22:13,559 at the end of this checkered story? 582 00:22:15,140 --> 00:22:17,720 Well, it becomes even more complicated. 583 00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:20,119 Giancana was warned, 584 00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:21,240 don't 585 00:22:21,724 --> 00:22:23,505 draw attention to yourself 586 00:22:24,045 --> 00:22:25,585 because it can be disastrous, 587 00:22:26,205 --> 00:22:27,345 just like it was 588 00:22:27,644 --> 00:22:30,705 with Al Capone or, in more recent vintage 589 00:22:30,765 --> 00:22:31,585 mob history, 590 00:22:31,965 --> 00:22:34,305 John Gotti in New York. In other words, 591 00:22:34,570 --> 00:22:36,650 if you love the limelight, if you love 592 00:22:36,650 --> 00:22:37,470 the celebrities, 593 00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:39,230 and he was told, 594 00:22:39,529 --> 00:22:42,330 don't do that. Gene Conner was told, don't 595 00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:44,809 do that. In fact, he was selected by 596 00:22:44,809 --> 00:22:47,309 the elders in the mob in Chicago, 597 00:22:48,075 --> 00:22:48,734 who were retiring 598 00:22:49,434 --> 00:22:51,755 or semi retired, at least keeping an eye 599 00:22:51,755 --> 00:22:52,494 on things. 600 00:22:53,194 --> 00:22:53,694 But 601 00:22:54,474 --> 00:22:57,034 they thought that Giancana was married, that he 602 00:22:57,034 --> 00:22:58,954 he was known for mowing his lawn out 603 00:22:58,954 --> 00:22:59,774 in the suburbs, 604 00:23:00,315 --> 00:23:02,315 that he was a solid guy. He was 605 00:23:02,315 --> 00:23:04,630 a money earner, and so will give the 606 00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:06,009 job to Sam Giancona. 607 00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:08,549 When his wife drops dead, he starts hanging 608 00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:10,250 out with Johnny Roselli. 609 00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:14,070 He meets various different people, the Maguire sisters. 610 00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:15,509 He starts going out with one of the 611 00:23:15,509 --> 00:23:18,515 Maguire sisters. And now his photos and and 612 00:23:18,515 --> 00:23:21,234 he becomes friends with Frank Sinatra. So now 613 00:23:21,234 --> 00:23:23,255 the, we have Sam Giancana 614 00:23:23,795 --> 00:23:26,115 as a prominent figure in the in in 615 00:23:26,115 --> 00:23:26,775 the tabloid 616 00:23:27,154 --> 00:23:29,954 newspapers and such. So this is the type 617 00:23:29,954 --> 00:23:32,940 of attention that the mafia in Chicago, they 618 00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:35,259 didn't want any of it. And so they 619 00:23:35,259 --> 00:23:36,400 they wound up, 620 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:39,440 after the JFK assassination, 621 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:41,119 Giancana 622 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,774 essentially is pushed out of power in Chicago. 623 00:23:44,774 --> 00:23:47,034 He winds up going down to Mexico 624 00:23:47,575 --> 00:23:50,154 and trying to get involved in international, 625 00:23:51,095 --> 00:23:52,154 business and such. 626 00:23:52,534 --> 00:23:54,394 He eventually comes back 627 00:23:54,774 --> 00:23:56,154 to The United States 628 00:23:56,670 --> 00:23:59,150 in the mid nineteen seventies. By that point, 629 00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:00,610 he's got some health problems. 630 00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:02,690 He comes back to Chicago, 631 00:24:03,230 --> 00:24:04,910 and there's a question about whether or not 632 00:24:04,910 --> 00:24:07,710 he'll he'll try to grab the reins of 633 00:24:07,710 --> 00:24:08,450 the Chicago 634 00:24:08,830 --> 00:24:11,244 mob and run it again. He had been 635 00:24:11,244 --> 00:24:13,644 replaced and whether or not he would try 636 00:24:13,644 --> 00:24:15,105 to grab the power there. 637 00:24:15,565 --> 00:24:15,964 And, 638 00:24:16,365 --> 00:24:18,625 when that happens in that time period, 639 00:24:19,325 --> 00:24:20,144 he subpoenaed 640 00:24:20,684 --> 00:24:21,585 by the senate 641 00:24:22,125 --> 00:24:23,105 to talk about, 642 00:24:24,045 --> 00:24:24,785 what was 643 00:24:25,349 --> 00:24:27,750 had happened in the early 1960s and the 644 00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:29,049 attempts to kill Castro. 645 00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:31,990 Again, with the a lot of things are 646 00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:33,829 complicated. There's a lot of spinning plates in 647 00:24:33,829 --> 00:24:35,609 this story. After the Watergate 648 00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:38,809 investigations of the early 1970s, 649 00:24:40,069 --> 00:24:42,394 the senate was looking at the operations of 650 00:24:42,394 --> 00:24:45,515 the CIA, and they became aware of the 651 00:24:45,515 --> 00:24:46,974 plot to kill Castro 652 00:24:47,355 --> 00:24:50,555 involving the two gangsters, Giancana and Roselli. And 653 00:24:50,555 --> 00:24:51,455 so the senate 654 00:24:52,075 --> 00:24:54,795 subpoenaed both of them. And in the case 655 00:24:54,795 --> 00:24:55,375 of Giancana, 656 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,640 there were investigators who flew out to see 657 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,519 him. And that night, he had dinner with 658 00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:03,920 his family. And and when the family went 659 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,160 home, Sam was cooking up a little snack 660 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,920 for himself. He had, like, a little man 661 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,494 cave in the cellar of his home in 662 00:25:10,494 --> 00:25:12,494 Oak Park, and it was late. And I 663 00:25:12,494 --> 00:25:13,615 brought 11:00 664 00:25:13,615 --> 00:25:16,255 or so. And somebody, we still don't know 665 00:25:16,255 --> 00:25:18,195 who, came in with a silencer 666 00:25:18,575 --> 00:25:20,115 and put six bullets 667 00:25:20,414 --> 00:25:22,115 into Giancana's head. 668 00:25:22,414 --> 00:25:25,450 And he did the the assassin did so, 669 00:25:25,910 --> 00:25:29,029 with the telltale mark of putting the shots 670 00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:31,769 around his mouth, which basically was a message. 671 00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:35,289 Anybody who talks like this will wind up 672 00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:38,515 just like Sam Giancana. They'll wind up dead. 673 00:25:39,134 --> 00:25:41,075 By that point, Johnny Roselli 674 00:25:41,775 --> 00:25:42,275 realized 675 00:25:42,654 --> 00:25:44,815 that he was had a target on his 676 00:25:44,815 --> 00:25:48,654 back. He he went, down to Florida, start 677 00:25:48,654 --> 00:25:51,580 started hanging out with his sister, living with 678 00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:52,160 his sister. 679 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,880 But he was subpoenaed. He did initially 680 00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:57,119 say virtually nothing to the senate. 681 00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:00,080 But then the FBI, who was investigating 682 00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:02,480 Johnny and Johnny had gotten in trouble, 683 00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:05,820 some cheating scandals at the Friars Club in 684 00:26:05,820 --> 00:26:08,694 Beverly Hills. So the FBI, the government was 685 00:26:08,694 --> 00:26:10,474 looking to deport Johnny 686 00:26:10,934 --> 00:26:12,954 Roselli because Johnny Roselli 687 00:26:13,335 --> 00:26:15,994 had a a big secret in his life. 688 00:26:16,294 --> 00:26:18,234 He was an illegal immigrant 689 00:26:18,615 --> 00:26:20,714 from Italy. His mother came over. 690 00:26:21,210 --> 00:26:23,470 He he did not have the proper papers, 691 00:26:23,769 --> 00:26:26,669 and he was feared being deported. In fact, 692 00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:27,950 Johnny Roselli 693 00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:30,730 was not even his real name. It was 694 00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:33,150 completely made up by Roselli himself. 695 00:26:33,849 --> 00:26:34,970 His real name was, 696 00:26:35,634 --> 00:26:36,775 Filippo Sacco. 697 00:26:37,394 --> 00:26:40,194 And when the government found this out after 698 00:26:40,194 --> 00:26:42,054 much investigation of Johnny, 699 00:26:42,674 --> 00:26:44,835 they said that we're going to deport you. 700 00:26:44,835 --> 00:26:47,714 So Johnny, by the mid seventies, was worried 701 00:26:47,714 --> 00:26:51,420 he would be deported, and he intimated that 702 00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:53,440 he knew something about the JFK 703 00:26:54,059 --> 00:26:57,660 assassination. His lawyers intimated that to the senate 704 00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:00,400 committee. And so they subpoenaed him again. 705 00:27:00,860 --> 00:27:03,600 And just before he was to be 706 00:27:04,059 --> 00:27:04,559 deposed 707 00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:06,320 about what he knew, 708 00:27:06,734 --> 00:27:07,234 Johnny 709 00:27:07,775 --> 00:27:10,275 was murdered. He went off to play golf, 710 00:27:10,734 --> 00:27:13,214 and they later found his body in a 711 00:27:13,214 --> 00:27:16,015 55 gallon barrel that was thrown into the 712 00:27:16,015 --> 00:27:16,515 bay 713 00:27:17,454 --> 00:27:20,015 in Miami Beach in that area. And that 714 00:27:20,015 --> 00:27:21,234 was the end of Johnny. 715 00:27:22,309 --> 00:27:24,569 As they say, sleeping with the fishes. 716 00:27:25,349 --> 00:27:25,849 Exactly. 717 00:27:26,309 --> 00:27:27,769 So it's quite a story. 718 00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:30,170 And both the murder of Giancana 719 00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:32,890 and both the murder of Roselli 720 00:27:33,349 --> 00:27:34,170 are unsolved. 721 00:27:35,315 --> 00:27:36,934 Readers of my book, 722 00:27:37,315 --> 00:27:39,494 Mafia Spies, will come to the conclusion 723 00:27:39,795 --> 00:27:41,315 well, you get a pretty good idea of 724 00:27:41,315 --> 00:27:42,855 who I think was responsible, 725 00:27:43,394 --> 00:27:44,615 had his hand involved, 726 00:27:45,394 --> 00:27:46,295 in the murder 727 00:27:46,755 --> 00:27:49,315 of of both Giancana and Roselli. And that's 728 00:27:49,315 --> 00:27:51,710 the last man standing. Castro is the last 729 00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:53,950 man standing on one level, but there's a 730 00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:56,450 mobster who was involved in all of this, 731 00:27:56,509 --> 00:27:58,049 guy named Santo Trafficante. 732 00:27:58,670 --> 00:28:00,269 And I think he had a hand in 733 00:28:00,269 --> 00:28:01,090 both murders. 734 00:28:07,345 --> 00:28:10,625 The secret plot and partnership between the CIA 735 00:28:10,625 --> 00:28:12,805 and the mafia to kill Fidel Castro 736 00:28:13,424 --> 00:28:16,065 first became public during the investigation of the 737 00:28:16,065 --> 00:28:18,404 Watergate scandal in the mid-1970s. 738 00:28:20,130 --> 00:28:22,849 Some of the ex CIA operatives involved in 739 00:28:22,849 --> 00:28:24,230 the plot to kill Castro 740 00:28:25,009 --> 00:28:27,190 played a part in the bungled burglary 741 00:28:27,570 --> 00:28:31,009 of the Democratic National Committee headquarters office at 742 00:28:31,009 --> 00:28:32,704 the Watergate Office condominium 743 00:28:33,005 --> 00:28:34,785 complex in Washington, DC 744 00:28:35,484 --> 00:28:38,224 on 06/17/1972. 745 00:28:39,005 --> 00:28:42,924 President Richard Nixon, facing likely impeachment for his 746 00:28:42,924 --> 00:28:44,944 role in covering up the scandal, 747 00:28:45,730 --> 00:28:47,190 resigned two years later. 748 00:28:48,049 --> 00:28:51,509 Nixon became the only US President to resign. 749 00:28:52,609 --> 00:28:54,049 At the time of the break in, I 750 00:28:54,049 --> 00:28:56,309 was a new congressional aide to Representative 751 00:28:56,609 --> 00:28:59,565 Wright Pattman, chairman of the House Banking Committee. 752 00:29:00,125 --> 00:29:03,884 I would later conduct Watergate related investigations on 753 00:29:03,884 --> 00:29:04,544 his behalf 754 00:29:05,004 --> 00:29:07,184 for the Joint Committee on Defense Production. 755 00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:10,144 Since then, I've watched the revelations 756 00:29:10,444 --> 00:29:13,904 explode into an industry of conspiracy theories 757 00:29:14,429 --> 00:29:15,490 about the assassination 758 00:29:15,869 --> 00:29:17,569 of President John F. Kennedy. 759 00:29:18,190 --> 00:29:20,589 Did the CIA do it? Did the mob 760 00:29:20,589 --> 00:29:23,309 do it? Did Castro do it? Did the 761 00:29:23,309 --> 00:29:26,769 FBI miss warning signs about Lee Harvey Oswald? 762 00:29:27,765 --> 00:29:30,644 Well, the latest batch of JFK documents released 763 00:29:30,644 --> 00:29:32,345 by President Donald Trump 764 00:29:32,884 --> 00:29:34,184 reveals that the KGB 765 00:29:34,644 --> 00:29:36,345 had Oswald under surveillance 766 00:29:36,884 --> 00:29:39,065 during his time in The Soviet Union. 767 00:29:40,029 --> 00:29:42,930 Covertly observing Oswald at a firing range, 768 00:29:43,630 --> 00:29:46,130 they concluded he was a bad shot. 769 00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:49,390 So, how did Oswald, perched in the Sixth 770 00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:52,609 Floor window of the Schoolbook Depository in Dallas, 771 00:29:53,565 --> 00:29:55,964 hit the president with a deadly headshot in 772 00:29:55,964 --> 00:29:57,105 a moving motorcade? 773 00:29:58,605 --> 00:29:59,825 In my next episode, 774 00:30:00,444 --> 00:30:03,325 Mayer reveals a new revelation about the Warren 775 00:30:03,325 --> 00:30:03,825 Commission 776 00:30:04,125 --> 00:30:07,105 and how then CIA Director Allen Dulles 777 00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:09,299 steered the murder investigation 778 00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:12,880 away from the CIA mafia plot to kill 779 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,380 Castro. 780 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,139 You'll wanna stay tuned for this one. 781 00:30:17,679 --> 00:30:19,859 This is Robert Riggs reporting.