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How well do we actually know our friends?

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Can we tell if they are lying?

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But a close friend actually be a stone

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cold killer.

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London born, Iv Davis,

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a former foreign correspondent,

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and his wife Sally, a former Bbc anchor,

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had the journalist advantage in spotting deception,

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Yet, they still learn the brutal truth about

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a close friend.

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Their book, the devil in my friend,

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unfolds in Malibu, California.

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Malibu in the seventies

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was a hotspot

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I mean, there was Larry H. There was

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Steve Mcqueen. There was Ali Mcgraw, and all

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the famous star Jane Fond.

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And her then husband Roger Va,

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they were our neighbors.

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And and so if you were an ordinary

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guy like me and like my friend fred

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Ray.

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You you kind of felt not out of

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it, but certainly you led your own life.

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So there were normal people like us,

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And and it was a it was an

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achievement people showed off a lot and what

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I liked about Fred Re was he was

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not a show off. It seemed. To me,

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he drove around in a battered old car.

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He wore clog, no socks,

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and he seemed to be so down to

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earth. To

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Fred Whale marriage to Ver Johnson on the

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beach in Malibu, California on Christmas Eve 19

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77,

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appeared to be a fairy tale ending to

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2 tragic stories.

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Var had been widowed 2 years earlier left

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to care for her 2 children, Kimberly Aid

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in Douglas 5.

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Her husband had suffered from depression,

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And jumped off the seventh story of a

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building in Los Angeles.

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Fred too was a widow

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having lost his first wife g in a

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flight attendant,

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just over a year before.

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He was raising their 2 children Heidi 7

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and Kirsten 3 on his own.

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Gene had drowned in their backyard pool, a

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tragedy that unfolded in 10/19/7606

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years after they were married.

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On that fateful night, neighbors rushed to Fred

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late night cry for help.

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They found him cro beside the pool,

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desperately giving his lifeless wife mouth to mouth

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resuscitation.

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Gene was declared Brain dead 5 days later,

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and Fred made the heart wrench decision to

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donate her vital organs.

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To Stanford Medical Center.

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Her life support was then turned off.

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The police concluded that Gene had likely fallen

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into the pool while drunk.

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However, some of Jean friends aware that she

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had been contemplating a divorce, pool Harbor

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suspicions a foul play.

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A fred staged and an elaborate funeral ceremony

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on a chartered boat for 50 people.

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Where he emptied her ashes for a small

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urn over the ship's bow.

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Guest drank her her memory tossing their wine

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glasses and long stem roses into the water.

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Among the guest was Vernon Johnson,

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the woman who had soon become his wife,

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Their relationship began 2 weeks after the funeral.

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Davis and his wife had known Ver for

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10 years.

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She had been a teacher's aide at their

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children's school.

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According to Davis,

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Ver

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was a sunny, all American woman in her

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early thirties.

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She was tan, athletic, queued and sexy.

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She reminded him of a cross between Natalie

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wood and fe acid.

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Fred Re was husky barrel chest,

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6 foot 2 inches tall with 190

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pounds of muscle.

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Curly black hair, a bur black beard and

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piercing pale blue eyes.

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He was a marine engineer and Deep sea

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diver.

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He worked as a civilian consultant for the

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Us Navy Pacific missile test center.

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When Fred Re.

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Became the the the handsome hun

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of a widow,

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all the women

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who

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were around malibu,

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fan him. I mean, he was a good

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looking guy was a strapping guy, a a

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bright guy.

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I mean, he he he looked like,

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a Hollywood hun,

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and a lot of women went after him

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after they knew that his wife had died,

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they didn't know the background,

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after after his first wife died,

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and you to take the kids to the

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nursery school and then women you to say,

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oh what a great guy is what a

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wonderful.

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Father is, you know, wish my husband was

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like that. So Fred Re was

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considered,

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you know, prime real estate. I mean, Not

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quite that. But but was was a hun,

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malibu and

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And then when he married Werner, everybody said,

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whoa. Isn't this wonderful. True love at last.

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The Malibu community

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affectionately named the... Family of 6, the Brady

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Bunch.

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The ray family seemed picture perfect to outsiders,

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Reminiscent of the popular Brady bunched Tv series

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that it debuted in 19 69.

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And he came to me 1 day.

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And I knew what had happened. I knew

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that he was a a widow,

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and his wife, Werner was a widow,

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and he had a new steps son,

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because, you know, the gossip it was... You

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know, he lost by both lost their spouses,

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and he said, Either, you are the coach

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of the Malibu lions kids soccer team

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I wanna get close to my grand... My

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son, my steps son Douglas,

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and can I be your assistant coach? Well,

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I mean, Of course. Of course, I said,

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I I welcomed him warm. It was terrific.

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He was wonderful as a an assistant coach

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you came up to every game.

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And though we knew nothing about soccer. He

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was terrific. So IIII

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got name very well. His son was the

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same age. His son age 8 was the

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same age as my son Gideon.

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And we went to birthday parties, and we

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knew it was a small community malleable, and

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everybody sort of knew everybody else's business. So

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that was it.

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And then I and then I just jumped

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forward at New year's day 19 81,

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I pick up the paper.

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And I see that Fred Re

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had been out in a in in in

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the channel Islands of Santa Cruz Island

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with his new wife Werner

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and this and his steps on douglas,

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and they've... They're dead in a terrible bon

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accident. Fred survives,

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he's rescued

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is taken to hospital,

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and it's a terrible.

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I mean, the the whole the whole malibu

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is... The whole Malibu is in in in

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in tears.

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Fred Re had purchased a 150000

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dollar, 50 foot yacht named the perseverance.

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With plans to take his children out of

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school for a 6 month sailing trip around

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the world.

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On 01/02/1981,

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Fred set sail with his wife.

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Their 4 children, his parents, his youngest brother

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and wife and a new beagle puppy named

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lady.

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The kids had just received the pup for

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Christmas.

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They embarked on a 3 hour sailing excursion

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to Santa a cruz Island.

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The seas around the channel islands were cold

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deep and

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unpredictable at this time of year.

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However, Fred Re was well acquainted with these

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waters.

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He had died for Lobster here

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and extensively trained with Us Navy around this

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chain of islands.

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Once I anchored, re, his wife, Ver his

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steps on Douglas

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and the beagle pup climbed into a inflatable

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rubber Ding

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and headed to bird rock. Fred said...

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They went out to Santa Cruz Island to

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take pictures

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of

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a place called bird rock, and it's called

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bird rock because it's covered in white...

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Shit from birds, and it's a it's a

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real...

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I mean, it's not a tourist attraction, but

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it's there.

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And Fred went out to see them to

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see it and went to with a new

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beagle puppy lady, and he took lady. He

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took Werner, and he took Douglas in his

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little robert ding called a do.

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And he said what happened was the the

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the young puppy jumped out of,

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a seagull,

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and and Fred tried to grab the dog,

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and when he grabbed the dog, the ding

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overturned

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and

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and he was trapped by his camera strap

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under the ding when he came up to

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the surface,

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He saw Douglas and Werner

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struggling on their face. No. They weren't they

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weren't breathing. He said, and he he grabbed

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1 in 1 hand,

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He grabbed

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darkness in the other hand, he managed to

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swim to bird rock. And with the dog

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on his head.

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Okay?

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On his head on his head, and he

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managed to push the dog up onto the

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rocks to safety.

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Alas

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Werner and Douglas died, the dog survived, and

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it sounds like a hit heroic father

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trying to do what's best.

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The crew of a passing yacht named the

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sound of music heard ray cries for help.

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They spotted a human figure bobbing in the

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water.

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Ray grasped his wife and steps sun in

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his arms.

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The out of music crew through a lifeline

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and pull the trio aboard.

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8 year old Douglas wore a securely fastened

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orange life vest that showed no signs of

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damage or water logging.

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However,

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he was ghostly pale with a bluish hue

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like the appearance of his mother, Ver.

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The crew administered Cpr.

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Ver and Douglas expel water from their lungs,

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but did not regain consciousness.

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The coast guard responded to a made a

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distress call.

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Rescuers air listed the trio shore, but Ver

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and Douglas had flat lined.

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Fred Re,

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emerge from the ordeal physically

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unscathed, but appeared to be in a zombie

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like state

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unable to speak.

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Following morning ray,

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now twice a widow in 5 years.

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Summoned his 3 daughters to his hospital room

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and broke that devastating news.

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He told them that all he could remember

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was the beagle pup, lady

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had jumped out of the Ding,

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Re assured his daughters that no 1 was

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at fault saying, god must have been ready

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for mother and dog.

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4 days later, Candy Hi called the Santa

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00:11:18,669 --> 00:11:19,866
Barbara Sheriff's department.

277
00:11:20,915 --> 00:11:22,505
She told an official that she was the

278
00:11:22,505 --> 00:11:24,253
neighbor in Malibu of Fred Re,

279
00:11:24,889 --> 00:11:27,115
whose wife and steps on had drowned off

280
00:11:27,115 --> 00:11:28,943
the coast of Santa barbara County.

281
00:11:29,912 --> 00:11:31,662
And that she had been a close friend

282
00:11:31,662 --> 00:11:34,605
of Ray first wife Jean who had drowned

283
00:11:34,605 --> 00:11:36,276
in their backyard swimming pool,

284
00:11:37,324 --> 00:11:40,184
In Gave a calm methodical description of the

285
00:11:40,184 --> 00:11:40,423
events.

286
00:11:41,535 --> 00:11:42,171
She declared,

287
00:11:43,203 --> 00:11:44,872
the Guy murdered his first wife.

288
00:11:45,364 --> 00:11:46,796
Are you going to let him get away

289
00:11:46,796 --> 00:11:47,751
with this 1 too?

290
00:11:50,138 --> 00:11:50,876
And then

291
00:11:51,251 --> 00:11:53,240
believe it or not 3 months later.

292
00:11:54,607 --> 00:11:55,822
I pick up the paper

293
00:11:56,195 --> 00:11:57,648
and see that Fred Re

294
00:11:58,101 --> 00:12:00,324
has been arrested for their murder.

295
00:12:00,959 --> 00:12:02,626
And the reason he was arrested for their

296
00:12:02,626 --> 00:12:03,261
murder was,

297
00:12:04,151 --> 00:12:05,129
He collected

298
00:12:05,663 --> 00:12:07,415
750000

299
00:12:07,415 --> 00:12:09,188
dollars life insurance

300
00:12:09,644 --> 00:12:13,240
on Douglas the boy. And his late wife,

301
00:12:13,638 --> 00:12:15,946
and the cops arrested him. I must say

302
00:12:15,946 --> 00:12:18,493
that that I believed he was innocent. I

303
00:12:18,493 --> 00:12:21,610
believed he was a man who tragedy struck

304
00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:24,313
twice and that's life. So there that was

305
00:12:24,313 --> 00:12:24,950
malibu then.

306
00:12:34,126 --> 00:12:35,823
After a 3 month murder

307
00:12:36,361 --> 00:12:39,246
investigation, Fred Rae stood trial for 2 counts

308
00:12:39,246 --> 00:12:39,804
of murder.

309
00:12:40,442 --> 00:12:43,095
If convicted he faced the possibility of

310
00:12:43,472 --> 00:12:45,146
execution in the gas chamber.

311
00:12:45,959 --> 00:12:47,717
And I thought here is a good guy.

312
00:12:48,276 --> 00:12:50,433
This... You know, this is a terrible injustice.

313
00:12:50,912 --> 00:12:52,510
And then as I said,

314
00:12:53,322 --> 00:12:54,993
we went to the trial which took place

315
00:12:54,993 --> 00:12:56,447
in Santa Barbara, California

316
00:12:56,822 --> 00:12:58,595
because Santa Cruz Island

317
00:12:59,527 --> 00:13:01,455
is off the coast of Malibu is off

318
00:13:01,455 --> 00:13:03,529
the coast of Ventura is off the coast

319
00:13:03,529 --> 00:13:05,145
of Santa Barbara, but

320
00:13:05,682 --> 00:13:08,176
police jurisdiction. And you know all about that

321
00:13:08,474 --> 00:13:09,670
is Santa Barbara Sheriff.

322
00:13:10,163 --> 00:13:12,868
And the Santa Barbara shares arrested Fred and

323
00:13:12,868 --> 00:13:14,481
came up with this this

324
00:13:14,936 --> 00:13:16,049
murder for insurance.

325
00:13:17,337 --> 00:13:20,147
Davis and his wife Sally were so confident

326
00:13:20,284 --> 00:13:22,912
that their friend was innocent that they advised

327
00:13:22,912 --> 00:13:24,982
ray lawyers on how to defend him.

328
00:13:25,873 --> 00:13:28,901
They attended the trial testified on his behalf,

329
00:13:29,539 --> 00:13:31,850
Then let Ray family stay in their home

330
00:13:31,850 --> 00:13:32,647
during the trial.

331
00:13:33,379 --> 00:13:34,200
They regularly

332
00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:36,259
communicated with Re in Jail.

333
00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:39,779
It was a high profile murder for profit

334
00:13:39,779 --> 00:13:42,339
trial prosecuted by Stanley Rote.

335
00:13:42,914 --> 00:13:46,579
The hard nose, aggressive Santa Barbara District attorney.

336
00:13:47,455 --> 00:13:49,788
The 11 month trial became a slug

337
00:13:50,164 --> 00:13:52,077
between forensic and medical experts.

338
00:13:52,808 --> 00:13:55,847
As each side tried to discredit its ci

339
00:13:56,141 --> 00:13:58,204
evidence in poke holes and stories.

340
00:13:59,791 --> 00:14:02,747
Prosecution witnesses argued that bruises on the victim's

341
00:14:02,747 --> 00:14:06,192
heads were caused by rail knocking them out

342
00:14:06,408 --> 00:14:08,477
with a wooden or from the ding.

343
00:14:09,686 --> 00:14:11,914
Defense experts countered that it was caused by

344
00:14:11,914 --> 00:14:13,744
bumping the side of the yard that had

345
00:14:13,744 --> 00:14:14,381
rescued them.

346
00:14:15,495 --> 00:14:17,802
The damning evidence that moved the jury,

347
00:14:18,534 --> 00:14:20,529
was life insurance payouts.

348
00:14:21,487 --> 00:14:24,301
Rail received more than 800000

349
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,296
dollars in life insurance payments

350
00:14:26,609 --> 00:14:28,604
for the deaths of his wife in steps

351
00:14:28,604 --> 00:14:28,923
on.

352
00:14:29,881 --> 00:14:32,434
He had made the final payment on that

353
00:14:32,434 --> 00:14:33,891
life insurance policy

354
00:14:34,445 --> 00:14:37,404
just 4 days before the mother and son

355
00:14:37,404 --> 00:14:38,764
drowned at Bird rock.

356
00:14:40,125 --> 00:14:41,485
Against the advice of his lawyers,

357
00:14:41,978 --> 00:14:44,444
re took the stand in his own defense.

358
00:14:45,001 --> 00:14:47,149
I think when Fred Ra insisted,

359
00:14:48,263 --> 00:14:50,013
then he, first of, wanted to do his

360
00:14:50,013 --> 00:14:52,340
own openings. Statement that shows your ballot, and

361
00:14:52,340 --> 00:14:54,414
the and the lawyer said, Fred will do

362
00:14:54,414 --> 00:14:56,010
the opening statement. That's why you're here to

363
00:14:56,010 --> 00:14:57,765
do. And then at the end of it,

364
00:14:58,659 --> 00:15:01,399
they all said Fred do not testify.

365
00:15:02,179 --> 00:15:03,559
Fred said I am testifying.

366
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:06,899
And he went up against Stanley Rode.

367
00:15:07,313 --> 00:15:08,665
The brilliantly dogg,

368
00:15:09,142 --> 00:15:11,630
Santa Barbara district attorney who was prose,

369
00:15:12,322 --> 00:15:14,072
and it was a it was a a

370
00:15:14,072 --> 00:15:16,472
bit of a shit show. The Murder went

371
00:15:16,472 --> 00:15:19,200
to the jury on 05/03/1982

372
00:15:19,416 --> 00:15:21,722
on the 1 hundredth day of the trial.

373
00:15:22,613 --> 00:15:25,158
The jury had heard from 70 witnesses and

374
00:15:25,158 --> 00:15:27,148
see 392

375
00:15:27,148 --> 00:15:27,466
exhibits.

376
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:32,571
The trial proceedings were recorded in 7495

377
00:15:32,571 --> 00:15:33,627
pages of testimony

378
00:15:34,318 --> 00:15:36,701
at a total cost to the prosecution and

379
00:15:36,701 --> 00:15:38,845
defense of almost 2000000 dollars.

380
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,628
4 The 7 woman 5 man jury deliberate

381
00:15:42,767 --> 00:15:43,724
for 7 days.

382
00:15:44,682 --> 00:15:47,155
They convicted ray for multiple murders,

383
00:15:47,729 --> 00:15:49,567
and murder for profit of his wife,

384
00:15:50,127 --> 00:15:50,527
Ver.

385
00:15:51,166 --> 00:15:52,604
And when he was found guilty, I was

386
00:15:52,604 --> 00:15:54,762
in shock, and my late wife Sally were

387
00:15:54,762 --> 00:15:56,281
in shock, and we said we are gonna

388
00:15:56,281 --> 00:15:57,100
find out

389
00:15:57,735 --> 00:15:59,894
the truth. And we when we we do,

390
00:15:59,975 --> 00:16:01,815
we would discover that I'm sure that Fred

391
00:16:01,815 --> 00:16:04,375
is an Innocent man. In the punishment phase

392
00:16:04,375 --> 00:16:05,095
of the trial,

393
00:16:05,588 --> 00:16:06,487
Ray faced

394
00:16:07,022 --> 00:16:08,536
execution in the gas chamber.

395
00:16:09,412 --> 00:16:12,041
A 64 character witnesses including Davis,

396
00:16:12,695 --> 00:16:14,855
told the jury that Fred Re was the

397
00:16:14,855 --> 00:16:18,554
perfect husband, a great father, and an outstanding

398
00:16:18,615 --> 00:16:19,574
member of the community.

399
00:16:20,628 --> 00:16:23,577
Ray insisted in showing the 18 minute film

400
00:16:23,577 --> 00:16:25,911
of his beach wedding tavern ver in Malibu.

401
00:16:26,846 --> 00:16:28,680
The minister who performed the ceremony,

402
00:16:29,014 --> 00:16:29,971
narrated the film,

403
00:16:30,928 --> 00:16:33,480
but it was not a fairy tale marriage.

404
00:16:34,278 --> 00:16:37,389
Re had persuaded his wife not to officially

405
00:16:37,389 --> 00:16:38,686
register their marriage

406
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,399
So she could continue to receive her late

407
00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:41,899
husband's

408
00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:42,440
pension.

409
00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,039
His 3 young daughters with pink bows in

410
00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:46,360
their hair.

411
00:16:47,092 --> 00:16:49,557
So as they beg the jury to spare

412
00:16:49,557 --> 00:16:50,670
their father's life.

413
00:16:52,022 --> 00:16:54,805
And he showed wedding photos and wedding movies,

414
00:16:55,203 --> 00:16:56,498
and he even got

415
00:16:56,968 --> 00:16:58,184
his young daughters

416
00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:59,856
to come on the stand

417
00:17:00,231 --> 00:17:00,970
and testify

418
00:17:01,425 --> 00:17:03,415
in his defense. So I mean, and and

419
00:17:03,575 --> 00:17:05,658
I wanna tell you we were all in

420
00:17:05,658 --> 00:17:07,646
tears when the girls got up. And there

421
00:17:07,646 --> 00:17:09,792
were kids, and they were saying don't send

422
00:17:09,792 --> 00:17:11,860
my dad to the gas chamber blah blah

423
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:12,019
blah,

424
00:17:13,306 --> 00:17:14,976
At the end of the 10 day punishment

425
00:17:14,976 --> 00:17:18,099
hearing, the jury sent its re to life

426
00:17:18,235 --> 00:17:20,223
without the possibility of parole.

427
00:17:21,509 --> 00:17:23,439
Davis thought his friend had been wrongfully

428
00:17:23,971 --> 00:17:24,368
convicted.

429
00:17:25,162 --> 00:17:28,497
His family started visiting regular at fu prison.

430
00:17:29,069 --> 00:17:32,345
Which was made famous by Johnny Ka iconic

431
00:17:32,345 --> 00:17:32,664
song,

432
00:17:33,384 --> 00:17:34,902
Fu prison blues.

433
00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:37,631
When we would go up to Fu to

434
00:17:37,631 --> 00:17:39,383
visit him. When I took my kids to

435
00:17:39,383 --> 00:17:41,614
see him because they knew him. And we

436
00:17:41,614 --> 00:17:43,980
sat in this our awful exercise yard up

437
00:17:44,416 --> 00:17:47,197
on horrible benches, the kids were there, why

438
00:17:47,356 --> 00:17:48,389
I talk to them I don't Know. I

439
00:17:48,389 --> 00:17:49,819
talked to them because I thought he would

440
00:17:49,819 --> 00:17:51,885
not... Be nice to see them. During the

441
00:17:51,885 --> 00:17:52,203
trial.

442
00:17:53,012 --> 00:17:55,469
Davis and his wife, Sally had decided to

443
00:17:55,469 --> 00:17:57,371
write a book about the case, believing it

444
00:17:57,371 --> 00:17:59,669
to be a gross miscarriage of justice.

445
00:18:00,398 --> 00:18:01,909
That we said to Fred, we wanna do

446
00:18:01,909 --> 00:18:03,260
a book, We think you're innocent.

447
00:18:04,055 --> 00:18:05,883
And then after he was convicted, he called

448
00:18:05,883 --> 00:18:07,155
us up and said go ahead and do

449
00:18:07,155 --> 00:18:07,553
your book.

450
00:18:08,521 --> 00:18:09,417
And so

451
00:18:10,028 --> 00:18:11,773
because she had nothing to lose. So I

452
00:18:11,773 --> 00:18:13,280
said, we're gonna do the book now Sally

453
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:14,549
and I gonna do the book now we

454
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:17,026
need some some some people. Who who, I'm...

455
00:18:17,503 --> 00:18:19,333
Who you... We should talk to? Davis and

456
00:18:19,333 --> 00:18:21,720
his wife traveled to Center, Indiana.

457
00:18:22,277 --> 00:18:22,777
Ray

458
00:18:23,153 --> 00:18:23,471
hometown.

459
00:18:24,201 --> 00:18:26,053
Convinced that his character in background

460
00:18:26,506 --> 00:18:29,446
would disprove any notion that he was capable

461
00:18:29,446 --> 00:18:30,082
of murder.

462
00:18:30,797 --> 00:18:33,918
That then I dug deeper as a as

463
00:18:33,918 --> 00:18:36,308
you investigating reporter and know. And when you

464
00:18:36,308 --> 00:18:39,914
dig deeper, you find facts that really

465
00:18:40,944 --> 00:18:43,365
change your mind. And I must tell you

466
00:18:43,505 --> 00:18:46,144
there was an Aha moment in this whole

467
00:18:46,144 --> 00:18:48,244
thing. And I call it that because

468
00:18:49,114 --> 00:18:51,574
What happened was I went back to his

469
00:18:51,574 --> 00:18:52,074
hometown

470
00:18:52,446 --> 00:18:55,144
in Indiana and spoke to the people that

471
00:18:55,144 --> 00:18:56,913
he said, would tell me the truth about

472
00:18:56,913 --> 00:18:58,911
the family. When I got back there, I

473
00:18:58,911 --> 00:19:00,909
went to see his parents, and and then

474
00:19:01,068 --> 00:19:02,826
I went to see school friends and girlfriends

475
00:19:02,826 --> 00:19:05,317
friends and other friends and they all said

476
00:19:05,317 --> 00:19:07,391
the same thing. They said if there was

477
00:19:07,391 --> 00:19:08,268
a dollar in it,

478
00:19:08,986 --> 00:19:11,139
Fred re did it. And in fact they

479
00:19:11,139 --> 00:19:12,676
wouldn't speak to me at first

480
00:19:13,133 --> 00:19:14,112
because they thought

481
00:19:14,584 --> 00:19:16,441
that I was a private investigator

482
00:19:16,819 --> 00:19:18,655
trying to get fred out of jail. But

483
00:19:18,655 --> 00:19:20,571
when they... When I I promised that I

484
00:19:20,571 --> 00:19:23,126
would not quote them by name, they opened

485
00:19:23,126 --> 00:19:24,814
up to me, and they told me,

486
00:19:25,927 --> 00:19:28,971
Fred Re, and insurance and Fred Whale family

487
00:19:29,108 --> 00:19:31,755
insurance, it was like a common denominator,

488
00:19:32,463 --> 00:19:35,889
in Indiana, a boat burned, in Indiana, a

489
00:19:35,889 --> 00:19:36,128
house,

490
00:19:36,845 --> 00:19:38,996
a guest house burned, in Indiana,

491
00:19:39,647 --> 00:19:42,187
something else burned and they... And the dad

492
00:19:42,187 --> 00:19:44,886
collected insurance and guess what, Robert,

493
00:19:45,601 --> 00:19:46,339
in Malibu,

494
00:19:47,283 --> 00:19:50,382
AAA house boat burned, a a guest house

495
00:19:50,382 --> 00:19:52,709
burn, a car suddenly caught fire

496
00:19:53,083 --> 00:19:55,308
mysteriously, and on each occasion,

497
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,788
Fred Re collected money. And so I guess

498
00:19:59,788 --> 00:20:02,101
the jump from ina objects,

499
00:20:02,739 --> 00:20:05,472
insurance claims to to real life people

500
00:20:05,944 --> 00:20:08,105
was an easy 1 for him. And also

501
00:20:08,105 --> 00:20:09,865
he bought himself a large yacht and was

502
00:20:09,865 --> 00:20:11,865
was... He didn't earn much money as an

503
00:20:11,865 --> 00:20:12,764
engineer. So

504
00:20:13,318 --> 00:20:15,233
all those little elements, you know as an

505
00:20:15,233 --> 00:20:17,785
as investigative report. You pull them all together,

506
00:20:18,343 --> 00:20:20,656
and you go, oh my god, and the

507
00:20:20,656 --> 00:20:22,012
back of the hairs at the back of

508
00:20:22,012 --> 00:20:22,491
my neck.

509
00:20:23,143 --> 00:20:25,769
Go crazy, I think with Sally, I say,

510
00:20:26,167 --> 00:20:27,122
Fred did it.

511
00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:29,987
He did it. But the idea and and

512
00:20:29,987 --> 00:20:31,658
and you would understand this you deal with

513
00:20:31,658 --> 00:20:34,136
so many criminals and police food who deal

514
00:20:34,136 --> 00:20:34,691
with criminals,

515
00:20:35,247 --> 00:20:37,494
the idea of jumping from a burnt boat

516
00:20:37,550 --> 00:20:38,685
to a burnt to

517
00:20:39,297 --> 00:20:42,175
car to. And to a human being, a

518
00:20:42,175 --> 00:20:44,427
boy, the same age as my own son

519
00:20:44,723 --> 00:20:45,223
seems

520
00:20:45,678 --> 00:20:46,156
into,

521
00:20:46,873 --> 00:20:49,035
unbelievable, but that's what happened. But it was

522
00:20:49,035 --> 00:20:51,412
all an insurance scam for life insurance.

523
00:20:52,045 --> 00:20:53,867
Yeah I I mean, it was an insurance

524
00:20:53,867 --> 00:20:55,214
scam. So I mean...

525
00:20:55,943 --> 00:20:58,086
What goes on? You know, I'm I'm gonna

526
00:20:58,086 --> 00:20:59,435
throw the question back to you if I

527
00:20:59,435 --> 00:21:01,339
may. Robert, you tell me you've dealt with

528
00:21:01,339 --> 00:21:04,141
these criminals in your career. You know

529
00:21:04,687 --> 00:21:07,148
soc pass, maybe not the moment you see

530
00:21:07,148 --> 00:21:09,133
them and talk to them. What, you know,

531
00:21:09,292 --> 00:21:11,515
what is it in their brain that makes

532
00:21:11,515 --> 00:21:12,944
them different to you and I.

533
00:21:13,833 --> 00:21:14,470
I know this,

534
00:21:15,186 --> 00:21:16,937
they can be very, very charming.

535
00:21:17,971 --> 00:21:19,904
Their Yes. But they're predators,

536
00:21:20,439 --> 00:21:22,451
they know really how to assess

537
00:21:24,038 --> 00:21:26,193
how to manipulate you? What interest you, which

538
00:21:26,193 --> 00:21:27,310
your weaknesses are,

539
00:21:28,028 --> 00:21:29,066
and they have

540
00:21:29,705 --> 00:21:31,540
no compassion or no remorse,

541
00:21:32,274 --> 00:21:34,831
about doing that maturation or killing you. Well,

542
00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:37,228
can I judge interrupt? It's funny. You should

543
00:21:37,228 --> 00:21:38,746
say that you've just hit in the nail

544
00:21:38,746 --> 00:21:40,756
on the head. I have got letters that

545
00:21:40,756 --> 00:21:42,670
he wrote to me. I've have got letters

546
00:21:42,670 --> 00:21:44,903
that you wrote to 6 to 8 different

547
00:21:44,903 --> 00:21:47,455
people, and there is a different person writing

548
00:21:47,455 --> 00:21:49,544
a letter to each of these people. I

549
00:21:49,544 --> 00:21:51,776
mean, if you're into Water Polo of your

550
00:21:51,776 --> 00:21:53,929
into Baseball, he would write you about Water

551
00:21:54,008 --> 00:21:54,885
Polo and Baseball.

552
00:21:55,443 --> 00:21:57,118
But this was not... I mean, if as

553
00:21:57,118 --> 00:21:59,529
a guy was 6. To 10 to 12

554
00:21:59,529 --> 00:22:00,029
different

555
00:22:00,330 --> 00:22:00,730
personalities.

556
00:22:01,210 --> 00:22:03,289
And my letters were all about things that

557
00:22:03,289 --> 00:22:05,610
the I liked, he knew, and you just

558
00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:07,825
write a letter based on that, and so

559
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:09,211
now that we're talking,

560
00:22:09,925 --> 00:22:11,985
some of it is coming clearer because, you

561
00:22:11,985 --> 00:22:14,467
know, he was... I mean, what's your split

562
00:22:14,601 --> 00:22:14,918
personality,

563
00:22:15,489 --> 00:22:17,487
Are these are these killers that you know

564
00:22:17,487 --> 00:22:20,364
about and so well? Are they split personalities?

565
00:22:20,763 --> 00:22:22,442
All the things you mentioned a few minutes

566
00:22:22,442 --> 00:22:24,200
ago are truthful, but what do you think?

567
00:22:24,614 --> 00:22:26,680
0II don't think they're split personalities.

568
00:22:27,475 --> 00:22:28,611
I think that they

569
00:22:28,985 --> 00:22:29,939
they know what they're doing.

570
00:22:30,575 --> 00:22:32,736
And I've dealt with many of them. Ray

571
00:22:32,736 --> 00:22:34,725
did not like what Davis had learned about

572
00:22:34,725 --> 00:22:35,463
his background.

573
00:22:35,997 --> 00:22:38,622
He demanded transcripts of all of the interviews.

574
00:22:39,513 --> 00:22:43,435
Davis refused and re terminated any future contact.

575
00:22:44,049 --> 00:22:46,038
I and my wife Sally was stupid really.

576
00:22:46,277 --> 00:22:48,108
We should have seen it. It's always easy

577
00:22:48,108 --> 00:22:50,694
to say. After the fact that you are

578
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:52,744
because the the the things that I liked

579
00:22:52,744 --> 00:22:55,136
about him and I testified in his penalty

580
00:22:55,136 --> 00:22:56,983
phase what the great guy he was I

581
00:22:56,983 --> 00:22:58,754
mean, I was a witness. So

582
00:22:59,128 --> 00:23:00,638
when I went back and found out he

583
00:23:00,638 --> 00:23:02,726
wasn't such a great guy that his family

584
00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:05,739
were work... What would believe to be con

585
00:23:05,739 --> 00:23:08,603
people for the reasons I've explained insurance. And

586
00:23:08,603 --> 00:23:10,830
then we realized that he learned all he

587
00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:12,444
knew about insurance claims

588
00:23:12,994 --> 00:23:15,487
and double ind all that kind of stuff

589
00:23:15,545 --> 00:23:18,813
from his father who also collected. So we

590
00:23:18,813 --> 00:23:21,378
came back with a totally different attitude and

591
00:23:21,378 --> 00:23:23,132
then we we dug a bit more deeply.

592
00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:26,241
We we went through the the the the

593
00:23:26,241 --> 00:23:27,060
court records

594
00:23:27,437 --> 00:23:29,532
and and and and and discovered

595
00:23:30,004 --> 00:23:32,957
so much more than we ever knew. For

596
00:23:32,957 --> 00:23:34,554
for example, his first wife's death.

597
00:23:35,751 --> 00:23:37,587
We thought it was an accident, but it

598
00:23:37,587 --> 00:23:38,306
was not it.

599
00:23:39,117 --> 00:23:41,739
And and there was so much we discovered

600
00:23:41,739 --> 00:23:44,623
on that trip that didn't add up to

601
00:23:44,679 --> 00:23:46,347
our belief that he was an innocent man,

602
00:23:46,506 --> 00:23:48,512
and that's what happened. And we... And he

603
00:23:48,512 --> 00:23:50,189
knew it. He knew it. So I as

604
00:23:50,189 --> 00:23:52,025
soon as you knew it. He cut off.

605
00:23:52,265 --> 00:23:54,500
You were a reporter, and so you see

606
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,736
detectives open this case dogg on him.

607
00:23:58,347 --> 00:23:59,464
What was going on in your mind at

608
00:23:59,464 --> 00:24:01,618
the time that, like, what did you ever

609
00:24:01,618 --> 00:24:02,895
say to yourself? What am I missing here?

610
00:24:03,134 --> 00:24:04,810
What are they saying that I'm not seeing?

611
00:24:05,223 --> 00:24:08,557
The detectives were thorough, the detectives went back

612
00:24:08,557 --> 00:24:10,883
3 or 4 times 3 times at least

613
00:24:10,939 --> 00:24:12,527
to see him and talk to him again.

614
00:24:13,018 --> 00:24:15,963
And then Fred kinda treated them well, he

615
00:24:15,963 --> 00:24:18,670
was... He offered them drinks and a tea

616
00:24:18,670 --> 00:24:19,306
and coffee.

617
00:24:19,864 --> 00:24:21,615
And I I... And if you listen to

618
00:24:21,615 --> 00:24:22,331
the transcript,

619
00:24:22,823 --> 00:24:23,323
Fred

620
00:24:24,016 --> 00:24:26,559
also cries at the right time listens,

621
00:24:27,275 --> 00:24:29,342
I wasn't in on the interior interrogation, of

622
00:24:29,342 --> 00:24:31,329
course. And then you can see that these

623
00:24:31,329 --> 00:24:31,829
cops

624
00:24:32,459 --> 00:24:32,959
know

625
00:24:33,418 --> 00:24:36,934
something more than I do. And and because

626
00:24:37,014 --> 00:24:37,734
I only saw...

627
00:24:38,373 --> 00:24:38,953
I realized

628
00:24:39,332 --> 00:24:41,590
the this the least the skin

629
00:24:42,222 --> 00:24:45,010
of the game. And when once you dig

630
00:24:45,010 --> 00:24:47,023
into the skin, you find

631
00:24:47,638 --> 00:24:49,788
that things are rotten in the state of

632
00:24:49,788 --> 00:24:50,288
malibu

633
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:51,979
for Fred bra. So

634
00:24:53,237 --> 00:24:54,995
you know, the and the cops, and they

635
00:24:54,995 --> 00:24:57,312
had no emotional attachment, and I did, but,

636
00:24:57,472 --> 00:24:59,070
you know, kids, we had our same kids.

637
00:24:59,230 --> 00:25:00,130
We were friends

638
00:25:00,603 --> 00:25:03,790
birthday parties, we thought we knew him. We

639
00:25:03,790 --> 00:25:04,347
were wrong.

640
00:25:08,027 --> 00:25:09,936
Davis returned to the scene of the Johnny

641
00:25:09,936 --> 00:25:12,004
at Bird rock on Santa Cruz Island.

642
00:25:12,958 --> 00:25:15,837
The prosecution had argued that Ray struck his

643
00:25:15,837 --> 00:25:17,985
wife and steps on with the Des wooden

644
00:25:17,985 --> 00:25:18,303
oa,

645
00:25:19,098 --> 00:25:20,610
rendering them unconscious.

646
00:25:21,485 --> 00:25:22,136
But However,

647
00:25:22,693 --> 00:25:26,271
Davis holds a different theory about what transpired

648
00:25:26,271 --> 00:25:26,907
that day.

649
00:25:27,702 --> 00:25:28,520
Fred Re

650
00:25:29,054 --> 00:25:30,906
was a deep sea diver

651
00:25:32,014 --> 00:25:34,511
who who who's made his career

652
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:38,885
setting cables under sea. He knew the waters

653
00:25:38,885 --> 00:25:41,619
out there. He knew the the the territory,

654
00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:43,220
like the back of his hand.

655
00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:47,160
He had... It was an incredible diver. So

656
00:25:47,554 --> 00:25:49,546
III don't think he hit them with oz.

657
00:25:49,865 --> 00:25:51,618
I don't think he... He... I think ronnie

658
00:25:51,618 --> 00:25:53,849
he did was, and I went out there

659
00:25:53,849 --> 00:25:54,726
myself and swam.

660
00:25:55,299 --> 00:25:55,799
Twice

661
00:25:56,174 --> 00:25:57,925
to see how serious, you know, how bad

662
00:25:57,925 --> 00:26:00,950
it was. And I think he just and

663
00:26:00,950 --> 00:26:02,860
it sounds awful. He just grabbed them both,

664
00:26:03,258 --> 00:26:04,793
and he took them under the water

665
00:26:05,183 --> 00:26:07,489
and he's his breathing capacities he's a very

666
00:26:07,489 --> 00:26:09,874
powerful man. And and and and when he

667
00:26:09,874 --> 00:26:11,464
realized I run concerts he came up.

668
00:26:12,657 --> 00:26:14,191
And he basically

669
00:26:15,377 --> 00:26:16,973
that that waited you to be rescued.

670
00:26:19,126 --> 00:26:22,157
Davis also discovered that life inside the regular

671
00:26:22,157 --> 00:26:24,231
household was far from perfect.

672
00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:26,814
He says Ray had a nasty

673
00:26:27,348 --> 00:26:29,040
personality in a bad temper

674
00:26:29,414 --> 00:26:30,607
behind closed doors.

675
00:26:31,561 --> 00:26:32,515
Ray had a trouble.

676
00:26:33,324 --> 00:26:35,072
Relationship with his 8 year old steps on

677
00:26:35,231 --> 00:26:35,548
Doug,

678
00:26:36,184 --> 00:26:37,932
who he was convicted of drowning.

679
00:26:38,726 --> 00:26:40,474
Well, woman when my book came out.

680
00:26:41,523 --> 00:26:44,236
1 of 1 of his werner best friends

681
00:26:44,236 --> 00:26:46,550
called me and said I knew he was

682
00:26:46,550 --> 00:26:48,465
a killer from the moment I saw him.

683
00:26:48,959 --> 00:26:50,795
He was a took... He was a dictator

684
00:26:50,795 --> 00:26:53,589
in the family. He terrorized his first wife,

685
00:26:54,786 --> 00:26:56,702
and he and he and he would not

686
00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:58,714
divorce his first wife. Is sick, and this

687
00:26:58,714 --> 00:27:00,315
was a woman who was a babysitter center

688
00:27:00,315 --> 00:27:01,055
for both

689
00:27:01,434 --> 00:27:03,994
both families. So she knew him well. So

690
00:27:03,994 --> 00:27:05,970
she told me she knew that he was

691
00:27:06,089 --> 00:27:07,843
guilty, but there were a lot of people

692
00:27:07,843 --> 00:27:09,835
who didn't. A lot of people who is

693
00:27:09,835 --> 00:27:13,423
who were staunch defenders. And even today, I

694
00:27:13,423 --> 00:27:13,741
think,

695
00:27:14,553 --> 00:27:16,408
I think still his daughters

696
00:27:18,696 --> 00:27:20,448
believe his innocence, and they'd probably get him

697
00:27:20,448 --> 00:27:22,838
out on parole many times on for health

698
00:27:22,838 --> 00:27:23,316
reasons.

699
00:27:23,888 --> 00:27:25,716
So he has, he does have a small,

700
00:27:26,192 --> 00:27:28,100
a small c of people who believe it

701
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:30,801
was innocent, but I think most people now.

702
00:27:31,453 --> 00:27:33,447
Believe it was just guilty as hell.

703
00:27:41,439 --> 00:27:42,797
December 2015,

704
00:27:43,276 --> 00:27:46,472
regulars 2 biological daughters started a petition on

705
00:27:46,472 --> 00:27:50,066
change dot org. In urging then California governor

706
00:27:50,225 --> 00:27:51,968
Jerry Brown to free their father.

707
00:27:53,157 --> 00:27:55,084
Brown did not grant cl.

708
00:27:55,869 --> 00:27:57,547
1234

709
00:27:57,547 --> 00:27:59,964
people signed in support of the petition

710
00:28:00,423 --> 00:28:01,381
before it was closed.

711
00:28:02,834 --> 00:28:05,622
Fred Ray as of 2024

712
00:28:05,622 --> 00:28:08,729
is 81 years old and incarcerated at the

713
00:28:08,808 --> 00:28:11,756
California state prison in Los Angeles County.

714
00:28:12,644 --> 00:28:13,937
Is not eligible

715
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:14,706
parole.

716
00:28:15,816 --> 00:28:19,544
Re sued the prison system in February 2024

717
00:28:19,544 --> 00:28:23,310
for 1000000 dollars in damages for injury suffered

718
00:28:23,524 --> 00:28:25,031
in a wheelchair accident.

719
00:28:26,063 --> 00:28:27,808
After receiving kidney surgery,

720
00:28:28,378 --> 00:28:31,634
his wheelchair hit a bump as guards escorted

721
00:28:31,634 --> 00:28:32,904
radar back to his cell.

722
00:28:33,778 --> 00:28:36,398
Ray alleged that the accident left him with

723
00:28:36,398 --> 00:28:38,562
4 hernia that acquired surgery.

724
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,716
The case continues.

725
00:28:41,753 --> 00:28:43,827
And every time I think about it, I

726
00:28:43,827 --> 00:28:44,785
think Poor Douglas.

727
00:28:45,278 --> 00:28:46,787
Great kid, beautiful boy.

728
00:28:47,819 --> 00:28:49,908
He's no longer with us because his life

729
00:28:50,123 --> 00:28:52,903
was snuff out so early. And Vernon was

730
00:28:52,903 --> 00:28:54,571
a lovely lady. She was a kindergarten,

731
00:28:54,984 --> 00:28:56,523
she taught out kids in kindergarten,

732
00:28:56,981 --> 00:28:59,698
Werner his wife, Gina I didn't know, but

733
00:28:59,857 --> 00:29:01,375
Werner, Werner his wife.

734
00:29:02,188 --> 00:29:03,220
Was was charming,

735
00:29:03,696 --> 00:29:06,476
and that's why the fairy tale story of

736
00:29:06,476 --> 00:29:09,040
a woman who whose husband had died

737
00:29:09,572 --> 00:29:12,231
and and a man who's why had died

738
00:29:12,286 --> 00:29:14,769
getting together, their unified families

739
00:29:15,142 --> 00:29:18,076
seems like a Hollywood happy ending, well it

740
00:29:18,076 --> 00:29:18,394
wasn't.

741
00:29:19,346 --> 00:29:19,480
I