1 00:00:02,725 --> 00:00:06,345 - In the mid 1970s, new Yorkers were growing accustomed 2 00:00:06,345 --> 00:00:10,025 to violence and a climate of fear permeating its burrows. 3 00:00:10,805 --> 00:00:12,865 But in the summer of 1976, 4 00:00:13,525 --> 00:00:17,825 an unseen menace emerged a serial killer who came 5 00:00:17,825 --> 00:00:19,625 to be known as the son of Sam, 6 00:00:20,245 --> 00:00:24,705 and the 44 caliber killer carried out a series of shootings. 7 00:00:24,705 --> 00:00:27,785 Over the course of a year, he killed six people 8 00:00:28,045 --> 00:00:30,505 and severely wounded seven at close range 9 00:00:31,015 --> 00:00:33,705 with a 44 caliber bulldog revolver. 10 00:00:51,095 --> 00:00:52,905 Several months before the shootings, 11 00:00:53,265 --> 00:00:55,905 a young lady was nearly stabbed to death by the killer. 12 00:00:56,045 --> 00:00:59,945 As she walked home, the serial killer typically targeted 13 00:01:00,035 --> 00:01:01,905 young women with long, dark hair 14 00:01:02,285 --> 00:01:05,265 and couples sitting in parked cars late at night. 15 00:01:06,115 --> 00:01:08,425 There were no ties between the victims. 16 00:01:09,285 --> 00:01:10,305 It seemed to be a case 17 00:01:10,305 --> 00:01:13,065 of senseless stranger on stranger killings. 18 00:01:13,965 --> 00:01:16,705 The trail of carnage was dictated by satanic voices 19 00:01:16,775 --> 00:01:19,545 that only the son of Sam could hear. 20 00:01:20,565 --> 00:01:22,785 It sent a chill through New Yorkers who feared 21 00:01:22,785 --> 00:01:24,505 that they might be next. 22 00:01:25,565 --> 00:01:26,985 In April, 1977, 23 00:01:27,085 --> 00:01:29,905 the serial killer left a handwritten letter near the bodies 24 00:01:29,905 --> 00:01:33,945 of his latest victims, identifying himself as the son of Sam 25 00:01:34,525 --> 00:01:37,545 for the first time, the Kel Taunted Police 26 00:01:37,645 --> 00:01:41,105 and the media with Catch Me, if You Can, letters signed 27 00:01:41,105 --> 00:01:45,345 with scribbled monikers, wicked King, killer Duke of Death, 28 00:01:46,045 --> 00:01:49,225 and the one that gripped the public son of Sam. 29 00:01:55,355 --> 00:01:57,305 Additional rambling letters were sent 30 00:01:57,305 --> 00:01:59,345 to newspaper columnist Jimmy Breslin 31 00:01:59,365 --> 00:02:02,425 and Police, with a killer taunting officers 32 00:02:02,445 --> 00:02:04,385 and promising further attacks. 33 00:02:05,685 --> 00:02:09,025 The extensive media coverage lent a grim celebrity status 34 00:02:09,085 --> 00:02:11,945 to the son of Sam with international newspapers. 35 00:02:12,135 --> 00:02:13,905 Closely following the case 36 00:02:15,365 --> 00:02:18,785 as 1976 bled into 1977, 37 00:02:19,575 --> 00:02:20,625 more young couples 38 00:02:20,645 --> 00:02:23,945 and individuals fell victim to the phantom shooter, 39 00:02:29,105 --> 00:02:31,885 The discos, where young New Yorkers danced the night away 40 00:02:31,885 --> 00:02:34,205 to the Be gees closed early 41 00:02:34,625 --> 00:02:37,125 so ladies could return home at a safe hour 42 00:02:37,465 --> 00:02:38,925 to their anxious parents. 43 00:02:40,105 --> 00:02:42,685 During the TV broadcast of Game two 44 00:02:42,745 --> 00:02:45,645 of the 1977 World Series from Yankee Stadium, 45 00:02:46,355 --> 00:02:48,405 viewers saw a fiery inferno. 46 00:02:48,405 --> 00:02:51,275 In the background, it is believed 47 00:02:51,275 --> 00:02:55,675 that legendary sportscaster Howard Cosell commented 48 00:02:56,175 --> 00:02:57,595 The Bronx is burning. 49 00:02:58,625 --> 00:03:00,795 The statement underscored the calamity. 50 00:03:00,795 --> 00:03:03,435 That was New York City in the late 1970s. 51 00:03:04,435 --> 00:03:06,215 In May of 1977, 52 00:03:06,635 --> 00:03:08,855 the serial killer taunted the upcoming 53 00:03:09,045 --> 00:03:10,535 anniversary of the first shooting. 54 00:03:10,555 --> 00:03:14,605 In a letter to daily news columnist Jimmy Breslin, the son 55 00:03:14,605 --> 00:03:16,965 of Sam, boasted about his thirst for blood 56 00:03:17,025 --> 00:03:18,765 and promised more murders. 57 00:03:19,595 --> 00:03:21,885 What will you have for July 29th? 58 00:03:22,025 --> 00:03:24,695 He asked, as the date approached, 59 00:03:24,855 --> 00:03:27,615 NYPD assigned 75 detectives 60 00:03:27,635 --> 00:03:31,855 and 225 other members of the department to a drag dad 61 00:03:31,855 --> 00:03:33,135 of the queens in the Bronx. 62 00:03:33,675 --> 00:03:35,575 To find the man they dubbed, Mr. 63 00:03:35,575 --> 00:03:39,225 Monster named the Omega Task Force 64 00:03:40,025 --> 00:03:43,065 Officers beamed large flashlights into parked cars 65 00:03:43,165 --> 00:03:45,265 to tell young people to go home. 66 00:03:46,365 --> 00:03:49,855 Then on the night of July 13th at 9:37 PM 67 00:03:50,775 --> 00:03:52,695 a lightning strike knocked out power 68 00:03:52,695 --> 00:03:54,975 to the city's largest power generator, 69 00:03:55,385 --> 00:03:56,895 triggering a power failure 70 00:03:56,965 --> 00:04:00,815 that plunged New York City into darkness for 25 hours. 71 00:04:02,165 --> 00:04:05,175 Mobs looted. 1,616 stores 72 00:04:05,865 --> 00:04:08,535 smash shop windows stole furniture, clothes, 73 00:04:08,535 --> 00:04:10,855 and electronics in an orgy of violence. 74 00:04:11,915 --> 00:04:15,055 Dozens of pontiacs were stolen from a Bronx dealership. 75 00:04:15,605 --> 00:04:19,375 They set fire to a five block stretch in the Crown Heights 76 00:04:19,875 --> 00:04:22,255 and assaulted 550 officers. 77 00:04:29,435 --> 00:04:31,215 Two weeks later, the Sun 78 00:04:31,215 --> 00:04:34,415 of Sam struck again in the suffocating summer heat. 79 00:04:34,915 --> 00:04:38,495 On July 31st, Stacey Moskowitz 80 00:04:38,635 --> 00:04:41,535 and her boyfriend were each shot in the head while kissing 81 00:04:41,635 --> 00:04:43,255 in their parked car in Brooklyn. 82 00:04:44,195 --> 00:04:45,575 The headline on the front page 83 00:04:45,575 --> 00:04:47,575 of the New York Post the following day, blared, 84 00:04:48,355 --> 00:04:51,975 no one is Safe from the Son of Sam, New York City, 85 00:04:51,975 --> 00:04:53,055 lived on edge. 86 00:04:53,665 --> 00:04:55,055 Women dyed their hair 87 00:04:55,075 --> 00:04:57,855 to avoid being the typical brunette target. 88 00:04:58,965 --> 00:05:01,255 Then detectives got a break in the case. 89 00:05:02,095 --> 00:05:04,135 A woman walking her dog the night 90 00:05:04,135 --> 00:05:07,535 of the Moscowitz murders remembered seeing a patrolman 91 00:05:07,965 --> 00:05:11,135 ticketing illegally parked cars near the crime scene. 92 00:05:12,255 --> 00:05:14,575 A detective tracked down a ticket issued 93 00:05:14,595 --> 00:05:17,175 to a David Berkowitz of Yonkers 94 00:05:17,475 --> 00:05:21,175 or a Ford Galaxy parked too close to a fire hydrant. 95 00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:26,055 On August 10th, detective Edward Ziko with his gun drawn, 96 00:05:27,055 --> 00:05:29,575 arrested 24-year-old David Berkowitz 97 00:05:29,945 --> 00:05:31,255 after ordering him out 98 00:05:31,255 --> 00:05:33,495 of his car at the apartment house where he lived. 99 00:05:34,485 --> 00:05:37,615 Well, you got me, Berkowitz said, adding a moment later, 100 00:05:38,535 --> 00:05:39,855 I am the son of Sam 101 00:05:50,035 --> 00:05:52,485 Berkowitz was a chubby, curly-haired, 102 00:05:52,595 --> 00:05:56,325 baby faced postal worker with no criminal record. 103 00:05:57,315 --> 00:06:00,775 His Ford Galaxy contained a rifle, a letter threatening 104 00:06:00,775 --> 00:06:05,175 to attack a disco and a 44 caliber set of ammunition. 105 00:06:06,285 --> 00:06:07,625 Inside Berkowitz apartment, 106 00:06:08,265 --> 00:06:11,025 NYPD officers discovered a handwriting log, 107 00:06:11,785 --> 00:06:15,625 documenting more than 1,411 fires 108 00:06:16,635 --> 00:06:20,215 set throughout the city, noting dates, locations, 109 00:06:20,675 --> 00:06:21,855 and weather conditions. 110 00:06:22,795 --> 00:06:24,525 Some of the arsons coincided 111 00:06:24,525 --> 00:06:26,645 with the same dates as his murders. 112 00:06:27,665 --> 00:06:30,595 Berkowitz started lighting fires when he was six years old. 113 00:06:31,135 --> 00:06:33,275 He would place his toys on the windowsill 114 00:06:33,295 --> 00:06:34,675 and light them on fire. 115 00:06:35,495 --> 00:06:38,515 He played dumb the few times his parents asked about the 116 00:06:38,675 --> 00:06:39,755 scorched window sills. 117 00:06:40,875 --> 00:06:45,045 Once in custody, Berkowitz claimed his neighbor, Jack Carr, 118 00:06:45,455 --> 00:06:48,405 owned a black Labrador retriever named Harvey, 119 00:06:49,025 --> 00:06:51,525 and that Harvey had been possessed by a demon 120 00:06:51,905 --> 00:06:53,765 and commanded the killings. 121 00:06:54,505 --> 00:06:56,605 He quickly confessed to all eight shootings 122 00:06:56,665 --> 00:06:59,525 and received six life sentences in prison. 123 00:07:01,055 --> 00:07:02,485 Later, Berkowitz claimed 124 00:07:02,485 --> 00:07:04,485 that OC cult assisted him in the murders. 125 00:07:04,905 --> 00:07:07,685 Now, that set off a flurry of TV shows and books, 126 00:07:08,545 --> 00:07:10,965 but you're about to hear that it was a lie. 127 00:07:11,705 --> 00:07:14,495 David Berkowitz confessed that he acted alone 128 00:07:14,595 --> 00:07:16,255 to Dr. Michael Caparelli, 129 00:07:16,935 --> 00:07:19,055 a behavioral science professor in Rhode Island 130 00:07:19,475 --> 00:07:21,495 and former minister of 16 years. 131 00:07:21,605 --> 00:07:24,895 With extensive experience ministering to prison inmates 132 00:07:25,945 --> 00:07:28,355 Caparelli has written Monster Mirror, 133 00:07:29,195 --> 00:07:33,115 a book about his 34 face-to-face interviews totaling 100 134 00:07:33,165 --> 00:07:37,195 hours with one of America's most frightening serial killers. 135 00:07:38,085 --> 00:07:40,235 Today, Berkowitz is 70 years old 136 00:07:40,295 --> 00:07:41,955 and has had a quadruple bypass. 137 00:07:43,605 --> 00:07:45,885 I am drawn to the subject of serial killers 138 00:07:45,885 --> 00:07:47,925 and the mystery of what can cause someone 139 00:07:48,105 --> 00:07:50,645 to become the personification of evil. 140 00:07:51,715 --> 00:07:54,405 Imagine you listen to the True Crime Reporter podcast 141 00:07:54,515 --> 00:07:57,965 because you too share this macabre curiosity. 142 00:07:59,885 --> 00:08:02,825 Dr. Caparelli and I discussed the building blocks 143 00:08:02,825 --> 00:08:04,945 that shaped Berkowitz into a serial killer, 144 00:08:05,375 --> 00:08:09,225 including isolation, trauma, resentment, and shame, 145 00:08:09,965 --> 00:08:12,705 and none of those factors excuse his murders. 146 00:08:13,675 --> 00:08:17,255 We also examined Berkowitz jailhouse religious conversion 147 00:08:17,275 --> 00:08:20,215 and whether true rehabilitation is possible 148 00:08:20,585 --> 00:08:22,535 after committing such atrocities. 149 00:08:23,355 --> 00:08:25,935 One disclaimer, in the wake of the murders, 150 00:08:26,955 --> 00:08:31,535 New York passed legislation known as the Son of Sam Law 151 00:08:31,915 --> 00:08:34,495 to prevent criminals from receiving money from selling their 152 00:08:34,495 --> 00:08:37,135 stories to publishers and movie producers. 153 00:08:38,415 --> 00:08:40,705 Berkowitz does not receive monetary or 154 00:08:40,705 --> 00:08:43,305 otherwise profits from the sales of Capelli's book. 155 00:08:44,055 --> 00:08:46,915 Here's my interview with Dr. Michael Caparelli, 156 00:08:47,255 --> 00:08:48,635 the author of Monster Mirror. 157 00:08:49,505 --> 00:08:52,395 Stay tuned to learn why Berkowitz called himself 158 00:08:52,775 --> 00:08:53,835 the son of Sam. 159 00:08:54,745 --> 00:08:57,245 - It was in 2019. I resigned from pastoring. 160 00:08:57,775 --> 00:08:59,165 Right now I travel the country. 161 00:08:59,385 --> 00:09:01,725 I'm probably speaking at about 70 venues a year. 162 00:09:02,395 --> 00:09:06,045 I'll speak on depression. I speak on criminal psychology. 163 00:09:06,365 --> 00:09:09,525 I speak on, uh, grief, anger management, 164 00:09:09,965 --> 00:09:11,165 seminars, workshops. 165 00:09:11,795 --> 00:09:13,845 I've written five books. Uh, 166 00:09:13,965 --> 00:09:15,925 the book on David Berkowitz is my fifth. 167 00:09:16,875 --> 00:09:18,855 In fact, it was the second book 168 00:09:19,365 --> 00:09:21,055 that I mailed to David Berkowitz. 169 00:09:21,815 --> 00:09:24,175 I mailed it to him at Shore Gun Correctional Facility. 170 00:09:24,835 --> 00:09:27,605 Just had a heart for prisoners because of my background. 171 00:09:28,515 --> 00:09:31,305 And David read the book, must have read a quick 172 00:09:31,305 --> 00:09:34,945 because in about two weeks he responded back with a letter, 173 00:09:35,685 --> 00:09:37,025 uh, saying, I read your book. 174 00:09:37,645 --> 00:09:39,105 He said, uh, I've been looking 175 00:09:39,125 --> 00:09:41,145 for a guy like you to tell my story. 176 00:09:42,125 --> 00:09:43,305 He said, would you visit me? 177 00:09:44,005 --> 00:09:47,345 Uh, you're dual qualifications, both as a clergyman 178 00:09:48,045 --> 00:09:51,355 and, uh, a behavioral scientist, 179 00:09:51,515 --> 00:09:52,795 a researcher in human behavior. 180 00:09:52,955 --> 00:09:54,995 I had already conducted other studies, 181 00:09:55,875 --> 00:09:57,835 I believe is a perfect fit to tell my story. 182 00:09:58,595 --> 00:10:01,375 So I visited him on April 1st, 2022, 183 00:10:01,375 --> 00:10:03,495 and that was the first session in 34 sessions 184 00:10:03,715 --> 00:10:04,855 of meeting with David Berkowitz. 185 00:10:05,515 --> 00:10:07,015 - Dr. Capal was curious. 186 00:10:07,675 --> 00:10:10,615 He had heard that Berkowitz claimed to have converted 187 00:10:10,615 --> 00:10:13,615 to Christianity in prison 35 years ago. 188 00:10:14,315 --> 00:10:17,295 - You know, I kind of went into it being a kid from the 189 00:10:17,295 --> 00:10:20,215 streets and with my education, a little cynical, 190 00:10:20,865 --> 00:10:22,695 maybe skeptical, more than cynical. 191 00:10:23,545 --> 00:10:26,485 And it was partly a curiosity to see if this conversion 192 00:10:27,145 --> 00:10:28,805 was real, but then 193 00:10:28,805 --> 00:10:30,485 to also understand the mental health 194 00:10:30,485 --> 00:10:31,885 factors behind his violence. 195 00:10:32,915 --> 00:10:34,645 Talk to me about your state of mind 196 00:10:35,405 --> 00:10:38,775 when you gunned down 13 people lit 1400 fires 197 00:10:39,355 --> 00:10:40,615 and stabbed a young lady. 198 00:10:40,725 --> 00:10:42,095 What was going on in your head? 199 00:10:42,975 --> 00:10:44,615 Probably because the fact that we live in a country 200 00:10:44,615 --> 00:10:47,295 where there are 13 mass shootings a week. 201 00:10:47,935 --> 00:10:49,735 I mean, those are staggering statistics. 202 00:10:50,655 --> 00:10:52,175 13, you know, that includes 203 00:10:52,175 --> 00:10:53,615 school shootings, mall shootings. 204 00:10:54,445 --> 00:10:56,665 So trying to understand what's behind that sort of thing, 205 00:10:57,345 --> 00:10:59,445 and wanting to know if his conversion was a 206 00:10:59,685 --> 00:11:01,525 testimony or a testimony. Did 207 00:11:01,525 --> 00:11:02,885 - He have a detailed memory of 208 00:11:02,885 --> 00:11:04,805 what unfolded in at each crime? 209 00:11:05,555 --> 00:11:07,605 - Yeah, well, you know, understand, 210 00:11:07,605 --> 00:11:09,765 when David Berkowitz talks about the crimes, 211 00:11:10,065 --> 00:11:14,365 he does not discuss the crimes as easily as some 212 00:11:14,365 --> 00:11:17,065 of the other criminals that I've dealt with. 213 00:11:17,685 --> 00:11:22,065 Um, or even guys you see on maybe tv, a Ted Bundy 214 00:11:22,065 --> 00:11:23,845 or a Ed Kemper. 215 00:11:24,195 --> 00:11:26,965 They sort of discuss it so matter of factly. 216 00:11:27,065 --> 00:11:29,605 For David, it's, it's traumatizing. 217 00:11:30,145 --> 00:11:32,845 And I don't say that in a his histrionic way. 218 00:11:33,345 --> 00:11:37,045 He gets this, this vein across his forehead like he's 219 00:11:37,045 --> 00:11:38,365 deadlifting 300 pounds 220 00:11:39,305 --> 00:11:41,845 and the pressure, it's a weight, he calls it a weight, 221 00:11:42,465 --> 00:11:45,365 and his eyes immediately fill up with tears. 222 00:11:46,265 --> 00:11:47,685 So it's a hard subject. 223 00:11:47,865 --> 00:11:51,405 It would almost be like talking to somebody about a loss. 224 00:11:51,585 --> 00:11:53,685 Now that, that, that may be 225 00:11:53,715 --> 00:11:55,365 insulting some of your listeners. 226 00:11:55,365 --> 00:11:58,285 Like, he's responsible for this loss, and I get it. 227 00:11:58,285 --> 00:12:01,085 Believe me, he's, he's the culprit. He owns it. 228 00:12:01,085 --> 00:12:03,725 There's no justifying or minimizing it, 229 00:12:04,225 --> 00:12:07,685 but it, it still affects him in a very personal way. 230 00:12:08,225 --> 00:12:11,045 So in discussing the, he's very detailed in his childhood, 231 00:12:11,825 --> 00:12:14,725 an incredible analysis of himself, even 232 00:12:15,605 --> 00:12:17,545 in the events right before the crimes, 233 00:12:17,725 --> 00:12:19,265 and even in between the crimes. 234 00:12:20,245 --> 00:12:22,745 But when you actually deal with the murders itself, 235 00:12:23,295 --> 00:12:25,585 it's a lot of fragments that I had to sort through 236 00:12:26,365 --> 00:12:29,465 and put my interpretive skills to, to the task. 237 00:12:30,405 --> 00:12:33,735 - Well, with your experience of, uh, interviewing inmates, 238 00:12:33,735 --> 00:12:36,095 particularly serial killers, I'm sure you've got a, 239 00:12:36,415 --> 00:12:39,015 a very good radar, the sense who's true. 240 00:12:40,915 --> 00:12:44,135 Did you sense that he has real, any remorse 241 00:12:44,875 --> 00:12:48,995 or, you know, misgivings like to take it all back? 242 00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:52,305 - Oh, without a doubt. 243 00:12:52,805 --> 00:12:56,025 You know, first of all, I was exposed to 1600 documents, 244 00:12:56,375 --> 00:13:00,705 psychiatric reports, court records, prison records, 245 00:13:01,455 --> 00:13:02,785 letters between David 246 00:13:03,605 --> 00:13:06,105 and random strangers that write to him. 247 00:13:06,135 --> 00:13:07,985 Letters between David and his father. 248 00:13:08,455 --> 00:13:09,785 Letters between David 249 00:13:10,045 --> 00:13:14,265 and family members of the victims in particular, 250 00:13:14,475 --> 00:13:17,465 NASSA Moskowitz Nassa was the mom of Stacey. 251 00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:19,745 Stacey was his final victim. 252 00:13:20,655 --> 00:13:23,355 Him and Nassa before she passed from cancer stage four, 253 00:13:23,355 --> 00:13:25,345 cancer developed a friendship. 254 00:13:25,435 --> 00:13:29,585 Nassa forgave him and the heartfelt, you know, 255 00:13:29,585 --> 00:13:30,745 statements in those letters. 256 00:13:31,525 --> 00:13:33,345 So you got the 1600 documents, 257 00:13:34,155 --> 00:13:36,335 and then you have, if you sit with somebody 258 00:13:36,335 --> 00:13:37,735 for a hundred hours, Mr. Riggs, 259 00:13:37,735 --> 00:13:39,135 you're not only seeing actions, 260 00:13:40,205 --> 00:13:42,895 actions will tell you something about a person's character, 261 00:13:43,045 --> 00:13:44,215 certainly more than talk, 262 00:13:44,995 --> 00:13:49,055 but what's more profound than actions is reactions. 263 00:13:50,135 --> 00:13:53,135 Reactions are actions that are unscripted when a man is 264 00:13:53,135 --> 00:13:55,935 caught off guard actions in real time when he is taken 265 00:13:56,035 --> 00:13:58,095 by surprise, when things don't go his way. 266 00:13:59,425 --> 00:14:02,745 I got a chance to see David's reactions to all sorts of 267 00:14:03,315 --> 00:14:04,865 unscripted stimuli. 268 00:14:05,575 --> 00:14:08,185 I'll give you for instance, chapter two of my book. 269 00:14:08,565 --> 00:14:10,625 My book is on Amazon. You can order it. 270 00:14:10,735 --> 00:14:13,185 It's called Monster Mirror Chapter two. 271 00:14:13,305 --> 00:14:15,025 I talk about a session where I arrive 272 00:14:15,085 --> 00:14:18,675 and David had a conflict with an inmate, 273 00:14:19,175 --> 00:14:23,115 and the inmate insulted him, and David was enraged. 274 00:14:23,815 --> 00:14:25,115 He was not in good head space, 275 00:14:26,125 --> 00:14:28,065 and I watched how he navigated 276 00:14:28,065 --> 00:14:29,545 through anger for three and a half hours. 277 00:14:30,725 --> 00:14:34,265 So I got a chance to see David Berkowitz very angry 278 00:14:34,655 --> 00:14:37,185 because of this insult from an inmate. 279 00:14:37,865 --> 00:14:40,445 But I watched him have anger and anger not have him. 280 00:14:41,245 --> 00:14:43,355 I watched how he navigated through it. 281 00:14:43,355 --> 00:14:44,635 Typically, when people get angry, 282 00:14:44,985 --> 00:14:46,275 when they're really outta control, 283 00:14:46,275 --> 00:14:48,595 they externalize, externalize. 284 00:14:48,595 --> 00:14:50,355 They talk about people, places, things, 285 00:14:50,355 --> 00:14:51,590 everything outside of them. 286 00:14:52,465 --> 00:14:55,765 The angry are usually introspectively handicapped. 287 00:14:55,765 --> 00:14:58,685 The ability to self-reflect is not very high 288 00:14:58,755 --> 00:14:59,765 when someone's angry. 289 00:15:00,455 --> 00:15:04,645 David Berkowitz took me through a long dark tunnel 290 00:15:05,515 --> 00:15:08,045 into his own soul while he was angry 291 00:15:09,025 --> 00:15:11,245 and really exploring what was underneath the anger, 292 00:15:11,245 --> 00:15:12,605 which in this case was shame. 293 00:15:13,515 --> 00:15:16,055 And we discussed the relationship between shame and anger, 294 00:15:16,075 --> 00:15:17,695 and we also discussed how that applied 295 00:15:17,695 --> 00:15:20,415 to the crimes and the murders. 296 00:15:20,715 --> 00:15:22,735 So I got a chance to see his reactions 297 00:15:22,795 --> 00:15:26,505 and I'd say, David Berkowitz's conversion is real. 298 00:15:26,505 --> 00:15:27,745 Now, he's not a perfect man. 299 00:15:28,425 --> 00:15:31,705 I have definitely noted some character defects 300 00:15:32,285 --> 00:15:34,025 and even confronted him about them, 301 00:15:34,395 --> 00:15:35,785 which I write about in the book. 302 00:15:36,405 --> 00:15:38,425 So he's not perfect. But, uh, 303 00:15:39,005 --> 00:15:40,865 I'd say he had a real conversion 35 304 00:15:40,865 --> 00:15:42,025 years ago, which is another thing. 305 00:15:42,025 --> 00:15:43,745 It's hard to fake a conversion for 35 years. 306 00:15:44,695 --> 00:15:46,985 Jailhouse conversions are typically six months 307 00:15:47,245 --> 00:15:49,185 before a parole hearing , 308 00:15:49,375 --> 00:15:51,545 they don't last for 35 years. 309 00:15:52,365 --> 00:15:54,905 - So what precipitated the conversion? 310 00:15:55,745 --> 00:15:58,715 - 1988, he's probably about, I don't know, 311 00:15:58,715 --> 00:16:01,455 he's in his thirties and he's walking the prison 312 00:16:01,455 --> 00:16:02,575 yard of Sullivan County. 313 00:16:03,445 --> 00:16:06,215 It's January, it's a cold evening. He would go for walks. 314 00:16:06,435 --> 00:16:07,615 He loves walking outside. 315 00:16:08,345 --> 00:16:10,125 And another inmate by the name of Rick, 316 00:16:10,315 --> 00:16:13,125 he's about five years younger than David, late twenties. 317 00:16:14,055 --> 00:16:15,355 He approaches David 318 00:16:15,655 --> 00:16:17,395 and he, uh, begins to tell David 319 00:16:17,395 --> 00:16:18,995 that Jesus loves him and forgives him. 320 00:16:19,665 --> 00:16:21,325 And David says, well, you don't know my story. 321 00:16:21,875 --> 00:16:26,095 What I've done is unforgivable. And Rick is very persistent. 322 00:16:26,715 --> 00:16:29,615 He joins David in the prison yard every night 323 00:16:29,685 --> 00:16:31,055 over a span of six months. 324 00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:34,235 Finally gives David a bible, a Gideon Bible, 325 00:16:34,355 --> 00:16:36,755 a little pocket Bible with the New 326 00:16:36,995 --> 00:16:38,115 Testament, the book of Psalms. 327 00:16:38,735 --> 00:16:41,885 David brings the Bible back to his cell at night, starts 328 00:16:41,885 --> 00:16:43,935 to read, gets on his knees, 329 00:16:44,515 --> 00:16:46,295 and he says, I just started sobbing. 330 00:16:46,715 --> 00:16:49,095 He said, I wasn't sobbing because I was in prison 331 00:16:49,235 --> 00:16:53,215 and I I'll never see daylight, I'll never see free society. 332 00:16:53,595 --> 00:16:57,245 He said, I wasn't sobbing because I messed up my life. 333 00:16:58,005 --> 00:17:01,485 I was sobbing because of the hurt I caused people and 334 00:17:01,485 --> 00:17:03,525 because of my sins against God. 335 00:17:04,225 --> 00:17:05,565 It was a genuine repentance. 336 00:17:05,565 --> 00:17:06,725 He said, I woke up the next day 337 00:17:07,455 --> 00:17:10,355 and I felt like a thousand pounds was lifted from my chest. 338 00:17:11,255 --> 00:17:13,515 He said, but still that weight, when I think about 339 00:17:13,515 --> 00:17:15,995 what I did, it comes, it says, it's not a day that goes by. 340 00:17:16,775 --> 00:17:19,535 I don't, at some point during the day feel that weight. So 341 00:17:19,535 --> 00:17:21,935 - I've done a lot of stories about serial killers, 342 00:17:22,135 --> 00:17:24,975 a television series, uh, spent time with him in prison. 343 00:17:25,075 --> 00:17:28,015 And of course, the question I always get from listeners 344 00:17:28,015 --> 00:17:31,975 and viewers is, why were they born that way? 345 00:17:32,035 --> 00:17:33,615 Is it nature or nurture? 346 00:17:35,015 --> 00:17:37,995 Did you get any kind of answer like that in all this time? 347 00:17:37,995 --> 00:17:40,955 You spent examining his record and talking with him, 348 00:17:41,895 --> 00:17:42,895 - With Oh yeah. 349 00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:45,145 I mean, that age old question. 350 00:17:45,345 --> 00:17:47,105 A question that is a very common theme in 351 00:17:47,105 --> 00:17:48,225 human growth and development. 352 00:17:48,885 --> 00:17:51,685 The trap that you have to be careful for when trying 353 00:17:51,685 --> 00:17:55,445 to explain human behavior is causal reductionism. 354 00:17:55,515 --> 00:17:57,365 It's to take a complex phenomenon 355 00:17:57,745 --> 00:17:59,645 and to reduce it to one single factor. 356 00:18:00,445 --> 00:18:01,945 Uh, it would be like playing the game. 357 00:18:02,085 --> 00:18:04,225 Jingga and the tower collapses. 358 00:18:04,525 --> 00:18:06,105 You would be a fool 359 00:18:06,105 --> 00:18:09,465 to think the last block caused the tower to collapse. 360 00:18:10,325 --> 00:18:12,585 Uh, in reality, it was a buildup of blocks. 361 00:18:13,425 --> 00:18:16,605 And when you're explaining David Berkowitz's collapse his 362 00:18:16,605 --> 00:18:17,885 psychological breakdown, 363 00:18:18,735 --> 00:18:21,185 only a fool would think it's one factor. 364 00:18:21,535 --> 00:18:22,785 It's a buildup of blocks. 365 00:18:22,925 --> 00:18:24,545 Now, in spending a hundred hours, 366 00:18:24,945 --> 00:18:28,305 I gathered nine themes from the data. 367 00:18:28,945 --> 00:18:32,225 I collect my data. Qualitative study, conduct, 368 00:18:32,265 --> 00:18:34,665 thematic analysis, where you are looking for themes. 369 00:18:35,485 --> 00:18:36,545 And those nine themes, 370 00:18:36,745 --> 00:18:38,465 I would consider the nine building blocks. 371 00:18:39,245 --> 00:18:40,785 Now, are they the nine building blocks 372 00:18:40,785 --> 00:18:41,985 behind every serial killer? 373 00:18:42,385 --> 00:18:43,745 Probably not, but I be, I'll bet 374 00:18:43,745 --> 00:18:46,105 that there's some, some commonality. 375 00:18:46,765 --> 00:18:49,265 One of those building blocks from a very young 376 00:18:49,365 --> 00:18:50,985 age was isolation. 377 00:18:51,845 --> 00:18:54,105 Now we know from the data with behavioral science, 378 00:18:54,205 --> 00:18:55,625 the more isolated people are, 379 00:18:56,375 --> 00:18:59,235 the more their aggression levels go up, they get aggressive, 380 00:18:59,995 --> 00:19:03,325 and the more empathetic or empathy levels go down. 381 00:19:03,715 --> 00:19:06,965 Empathy represented by oxytocin, aggression represented 382 00:19:06,965 --> 00:19:08,325 by cortisol and adrenaline. 383 00:19:08,585 --> 00:19:10,645 So we as people, we don't do well in isolation. 384 00:19:11,135 --> 00:19:13,365 David Berkowitz was always a part of groups. 385 00:19:13,625 --> 00:19:14,845 He grew up in New York City. 386 00:19:15,275 --> 00:19:18,085 He's not like the Unabomber, you know, shaggy beard, 387 00:19:18,265 --> 00:19:19,325 hermit and a cabin. 388 00:19:20,025 --> 00:19:21,805 So he's around people a lot, 389 00:19:22,755 --> 00:19:25,015 but he's always sort of the outsider in the group. 390 00:19:25,525 --> 00:19:27,455 There's a difference between being with people 391 00:19:27,475 --> 00:19:28,495 and bonding with people. 392 00:19:29,025 --> 00:19:30,055 David was with people. 393 00:19:30,075 --> 00:19:32,055 He played on baseball teams, part 394 00:19:32,055 --> 00:19:34,815 of the Appalachian Mountain Club, a group of teenagers 395 00:19:34,815 --> 00:19:35,815 that would climb the mountains, 396 00:19:35,815 --> 00:19:37,815 be bust from the city to upstate New York. 397 00:19:38,235 --> 00:19:41,295 But he never connected. He always felt like the outsider. 398 00:19:41,435 --> 00:19:44,175 In fact, in his letters that he left at the crime scene, 399 00:19:44,675 --> 00:19:46,295 you go back and evaluate the content. 400 00:19:46,795 --> 00:19:49,135 It speaks so much to the themes I gathered. 401 00:19:49,715 --> 00:19:52,815 He says, I'm an outsider that's watching the world go 402 00:19:52,835 --> 00:19:54,415 by programmed to kill. 403 00:19:55,265 --> 00:19:57,325 And you'll see that isolation theme, 404 00:19:57,325 --> 00:20:00,805 that outsider mentality, probably a amongst a lot of the, 405 00:20:01,095 --> 00:20:04,285 especially the school shooters, the mass shooters, one 406 00:20:04,285 --> 00:20:06,165 of the building blocks, I'd say 407 00:20:06,165 --> 00:20:07,485 another building block was shame. 408 00:20:07,975 --> 00:20:10,045 David Berkowitz experienced lots 409 00:20:10,045 --> 00:20:13,765 of shaming in his childhood, not making excuses. 410 00:20:13,765 --> 00:20:15,485 Mr. Riggs, there's no excuse for what he did. 411 00:20:16,615 --> 00:20:19,295 Explanations just shedding some light. 412 00:20:19,805 --> 00:20:23,165 When he was in the third grade, his teacher took his desk 413 00:20:23,595 --> 00:20:26,965 because he was a very hyperactive child in the 1950s. 414 00:20:27,385 --> 00:20:29,365 Nobody understands a DHD. 415 00:20:30,285 --> 00:20:33,105 And the teacher places his desk in the center 416 00:20:33,105 --> 00:20:36,465 of the classroom and says to the other kids, this is 417 00:20:36,465 --> 00:20:37,665 where the bad boys sit. 418 00:20:38,635 --> 00:20:40,095 So he's experiencing shame. 419 00:20:40,835 --> 00:20:44,015 His uncle, his father's brother, adopted father, by the way, 420 00:20:44,505 --> 00:20:46,135 would often body shame him 421 00:20:46,135 --> 00:20:48,125 because he was chubby, overweight. 422 00:20:48,945 --> 00:20:50,805 So shame was one of the building blocks. 423 00:20:51,345 --> 00:20:52,525 We discussed head trauma. 424 00:20:53,245 --> 00:20:56,045 A pipe hit him in the head At about 6, 6, 7 years old, 425 00:20:56,045 --> 00:20:59,245 he was playing stickball in the Bronx on Westchester Avenue. 426 00:20:59,795 --> 00:21:01,045 Another player on the team 427 00:21:01,605 --> 00:21:02,805 accidentally hit him in the head with a pipe. 428 00:21:03,705 --> 00:21:06,285 He was also hit by a car. Two years later. 429 00:21:06,945 --> 00:21:09,165 Now we know TBI, traumatic brain injury. 430 00:21:09,775 --> 00:21:13,165 About 63% of the criminal population in prison 431 00:21:13,825 --> 00:21:15,125 has suffered A TBI. 432 00:21:15,385 --> 00:21:17,085 That's significantly high compared 433 00:21:17,085 --> 00:21:19,525 to the general population head trauma. 434 00:21:19,945 --> 00:21:23,805 In this case, an assault against the frontal lobe can affect 435 00:21:24,135 --> 00:21:25,605 one's impulse regulation. 436 00:21:26,265 --> 00:21:29,045 It can also result in sensitivity to sound, 437 00:21:29,775 --> 00:21:32,845 which David Berkowitz definitely suffers from misophonia. 438 00:21:33,305 --> 00:21:35,885 We know that because of his irritation with barking dogs. 439 00:21:36,685 --> 00:21:39,805 I also know that from watching his, uh, life in prison, 440 00:21:40,275 --> 00:21:42,885 he's dealt with neighbors making loud noises, 441 00:21:43,025 --> 00:21:44,245 how it drives him insane. 442 00:21:45,025 --> 00:21:47,205 Um, so head trauma was another building block. 443 00:21:47,865 --> 00:21:49,725 Now, when I gather all these building blocks, 444 00:21:50,155 --> 00:21:52,885 just like building that tower in the game of Jenga, 445 00:21:53,545 --> 00:21:56,085 at some point in the case of David Berkowitz, 446 00:21:56,465 --> 00:21:57,525 the tower collapses. 447 00:21:57,725 --> 00:22:01,765 I discuss each of those building blocks in the book Monira. 448 00:22:03,215 --> 00:22:05,765 - After this message, I'll be back with Dr. 449 00:22:05,835 --> 00:22:08,565 Caparelli to explain why Berkowitz called 450 00:22:08,595 --> 00:22:10,405 himself the son of Sam. 451 00:22:24,375 --> 00:22:27,145 What did you learn about the moniker son of Sam 452 00:22:27,165 --> 00:22:28,505 and what does he think about it? 453 00:22:29,495 --> 00:22:33,595 - David called himself the son of Sam during 454 00:22:33,595 --> 00:22:38,195 that maniacal time in the 1970s, for a couple of reasons. 455 00:22:39,235 --> 00:22:41,095 He was heavily involved in satanism, 456 00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:46,995 and one of the particular gods that he served 457 00:22:47,655 --> 00:22:51,355 God of the underworld was a God by the name of Sam Hane. 458 00:22:52,045 --> 00:22:55,265 It was a druitt God that demanded human sacrifice. 459 00:22:56,255 --> 00:23:00,015 At the same time, David's neighbor, a man by the name 460 00:23:00,015 --> 00:23:03,725 of Sam, becomes a real source of irritation for David. 461 00:23:04,195 --> 00:23:05,925 This is according to David's testimony, 462 00:23:06,545 --> 00:23:08,045 the neighbor's dog is constantly 463 00:23:08,075 --> 00:23:09,485 barking, a dog named Harvey. 464 00:23:10,595 --> 00:23:13,785 And, uh, David starts to see through his sort 465 00:23:13,785 --> 00:23:17,665 of delusional perspective, he sees Sam the neighbor 466 00:23:18,475 --> 00:23:20,955 as a conduit, a vessel 467 00:23:21,455 --> 00:23:25,235 and avatar almost of Sam Hane, 468 00:23:25,235 --> 00:23:26,995 this God of the underworld. 469 00:23:27,805 --> 00:23:29,345 So, and then the, the name Sam. 470 00:23:29,485 --> 00:23:31,865 So you can imagine what that does in his mind. 471 00:23:32,165 --> 00:23:35,105 The fact that Sam, his neighbor, his name Sam, 472 00:23:35,895 --> 00:23:38,035 and has become this source of irritation, it starts 473 00:23:38,035 --> 00:23:42,755 to play in his head, is this distorted narrative that Sam, 474 00:23:42,815 --> 00:23:46,365 the neighbor, is sort of a representation of Sam Hane, 475 00:23:46,365 --> 00:23:48,565 the un, the guard of God of the underworld. 476 00:23:49,305 --> 00:23:53,725 And he becomes, in his mind, a, a messenger of Satan, a son 477 00:23:53,725 --> 00:23:55,845 of Sam, in committing these crimes. 478 00:23:56,625 --> 00:23:57,725 So we we're dealing with a guy 479 00:23:57,725 --> 00:23:58,885 that definitely had a psychotic break, 480 00:23:59,505 --> 00:24:02,655 and that psychotic break is, you know, 481 00:24:02,655 --> 00:24:04,975 you could make a correlation between that 482 00:24:04,975 --> 00:24:06,735 and some of the themes I discussed in the book, 483 00:24:06,745 --> 00:24:08,575 especially isolation. 484 00:24:09,385 --> 00:24:11,145 I mean, when people isolate for too long, 485 00:24:11,725 --> 00:24:14,225 and David was certainly very isolated the last couple 486 00:24:14,225 --> 00:24:17,615 of years of his crimes, the average person, 487 00:24:17,745 --> 00:24:20,495 their head can get real tied up in knots. 488 00:24:21,155 --> 00:24:23,695 I'm not saying the average person's gonna do what David did, 489 00:24:24,565 --> 00:24:26,585 but I think at some level we're all susceptible 490 00:24:27,165 --> 00:24:29,505 to the effects of isolation on the personality. 491 00:24:30,365 --> 00:24:34,485 - Did he explain to you what he was thinking during the, uh, 492 00:24:34,555 --> 00:24:37,325 that those crime sprees or what he was trying to achieve? 493 00:24:38,035 --> 00:24:42,655 - Well, there were definitely urges to kill that built up 494 00:24:42,655 --> 00:24:45,095 inside of him through a lifetime of resentment. 495 00:24:45,995 --> 00:24:47,625 Resentment is another one of the themes. 496 00:24:49,205 --> 00:24:50,665 The broader name, anger, 497 00:24:51,525 --> 00:24:53,775 that was definitely something building from a young age. 498 00:24:53,895 --> 00:24:56,295 I mean, his, his pyromania is, 499 00:24:56,315 --> 00:24:59,335 and his vandalism of property was probably the, 500 00:25:00,115 --> 00:25:03,655 the seedlings of, of the homicides, the murder. 501 00:25:04,255 --> 00:25:06,735 I mean, he's light and fires constantly from the time he's 502 00:25:06,735 --> 00:25:09,225 six, seven years old, very angry. 503 00:25:09,865 --> 00:25:12,665 A lot of that having to do with his adoption, which is a, 504 00:25:12,865 --> 00:25:13,985 a long story in itself. 505 00:25:14,605 --> 00:25:18,425 And he sees the crimes as partly what he would call demonic, 506 00:25:19,095 --> 00:25:20,565 under demonic influence, 507 00:25:20,705 --> 00:25:23,125 but not this, this like devil made me do it. 508 00:25:23,125 --> 00:25:26,985 Story he believes the demons were 509 00:25:27,775 --> 00:25:31,905 working closely with this buildup of hate 510 00:25:32,525 --> 00:25:35,615 inside his heart and the crimes themselves. 511 00:25:35,675 --> 00:25:37,055 The murders were sort of a release. 512 00:25:37,875 --> 00:25:40,725 He talks about wrestling with the urges. 513 00:25:40,945 --> 00:25:43,685 He said, at some points I'd get in my car, I would drive, 514 00:25:44,215 --> 00:25:48,035 leave my apartment in Yonkers, I park at Orchard Beach. 515 00:25:48,755 --> 00:25:51,035 A very comfortable place for me that brought back a lot 516 00:25:51,035 --> 00:25:54,475 of childhood memories and I would hope to escape the urges. 517 00:25:55,295 --> 00:25:58,235 But, uh, he, he admitting most nights he would succumb 518 00:25:58,235 --> 00:26:00,235 to the urges and he felt sort of a relief 519 00:26:01,155 --> 00:26:02,535 in committing the crimes. 520 00:26:03,255 --> 00:26:05,175 A dopamine rush, if you wanna call it that, 521 00:26:05,955 --> 00:26:09,005 that brought some temporary relief, just like a drug addict 522 00:26:09,585 --> 00:26:11,645 is experiencing relief from a substance 523 00:26:12,235 --> 00:26:13,565 from these particular urges. 524 00:26:13,825 --> 00:26:17,185 But the relief, just like a drug would only last 525 00:26:17,205 --> 00:26:18,505 for a certain window of time. 526 00:26:19,325 --> 00:26:22,905 And the next day he's back to these urges building again 527 00:26:23,485 --> 00:26:25,505 and looking for that outlet of frustration. 528 00:26:26,015 --> 00:26:29,585 - Does he expect to win parole someday? And is he eligible? 529 00:26:30,045 --> 00:26:32,465 - He is. He goes before the parole board every two years, 530 00:26:33,045 --> 00:26:37,145 and he does not expect to meet parole. 531 00:26:38,005 --> 00:26:40,785 He didn't go to a good portion of his parole hearings, 532 00:26:40,785 --> 00:26:43,285 but it was perceived as arrogance on behalf 533 00:26:43,285 --> 00:26:44,725 of the parole committee and the, 534 00:26:45,265 --> 00:26:46,725 the families of the victims. 535 00:26:47,275 --> 00:26:48,845 Like how dare he not show up? 536 00:26:49,575 --> 00:26:51,275 So he didn't want to communicate that message. 537 00:26:51,935 --> 00:26:53,715 So now he goes before the parole board every June, 538 00:26:53,965 --> 00:26:56,435 every other June, every two years he's up 539 00:26:56,435 --> 00:26:57,475 for parole this coming June. 540 00:26:58,565 --> 00:27:00,865 And, uh, he goes just simply with the expectation 541 00:27:00,865 --> 00:27:03,975 of sharing his story of conversion. 542 00:27:04,435 --> 00:27:06,255 But he knows the chances are very slim. 543 00:27:07,115 --> 00:27:09,175 - Dr. Caparelli says isolation 544 00:27:09,275 --> 00:27:13,215 and loneliness are contributing factors to the epidemic 545 00:27:13,275 --> 00:27:14,375 of mass shootings 546 00:27:14,375 --> 00:27:17,295 and impulsive violence sweeping the United States. 547 00:27:18,115 --> 00:27:19,855 - We live in a very extroverted nation. 548 00:27:20,775 --> 00:27:23,235 And you could compare our culture to Japan, for instance. 549 00:27:24,385 --> 00:27:26,655 We're pretty out there. I mean, look at his social media. 550 00:27:27,285 --> 00:27:28,535 Selfies are all over the place, 551 00:27:28,635 --> 00:27:31,055 but extroversion in community are not the same thing. 552 00:27:31,835 --> 00:27:33,335 That's why I make the point in the book 553 00:27:33,335 --> 00:27:35,965 that David was in New York City, very populated. 554 00:27:36,145 --> 00:27:40,365 People are all the time surrounding him, but to be known 555 00:27:40,545 --> 00:27:42,725 and intimacy is to know and to be known. 556 00:27:43,555 --> 00:27:45,285 It's, I know you, you know me. 557 00:27:45,835 --> 00:27:48,055 It's not just shoot the breeze. 558 00:27:49,015 --> 00:27:51,195 Social media's kind of painted this idea 559 00:27:51,225 --> 00:27:53,355 that I'm connected, but are you really? 560 00:27:53,775 --> 00:27:55,835 You got 5,000 friends, but do they really know you? 561 00:27:57,035 --> 00:27:59,895 So, uh, you know, social a great 562 00:28:00,545 --> 00:28:01,975 supplement for relationships. 563 00:28:02,075 --> 00:28:03,495 If you've got real life relationships 564 00:28:03,515 --> 00:28:05,335 and you are using it to supplement, wonderful. 565 00:28:05,715 --> 00:28:08,925 But it's a horrible substitute if it's all you got. 566 00:28:09,695 --> 00:28:12,325 Which more and more people today are sort of turning 567 00:28:12,345 --> 00:28:14,365 to social media because it's easier than dealing 568 00:28:14,365 --> 00:28:17,125 with the risk that come with relationship. 569 00:28:17,925 --> 00:28:19,885 Real face-to-face relationship 570 00:28:20,015 --> 00:28:21,965 where I have a whole lot less control. 571 00:28:22,695 --> 00:28:25,435 Social media is becoming the pseudo relationship. 572 00:28:25,545 --> 00:28:27,715 It's becoming the, I wanna call it the counterfeit, 573 00:28:28,135 --> 00:28:29,235 if it's a substitute. 574 00:28:29,855 --> 00:28:32,995 So with that said, loneliness is gonna skyrocket. 575 00:28:32,995 --> 00:28:35,115 The more people are on social media, the more lonely 576 00:28:35,735 --> 00:28:37,155 and the more depressed they get 577 00:28:37,155 --> 00:28:38,355 according to mood inventories. 578 00:28:39,415 --> 00:28:40,595 And I think the, you're gonna, 579 00:28:40,595 --> 00:28:43,915 you're gonna see less active shooters, less serial killers 580 00:28:44,815 --> 00:28:47,515 in your collectivist countries of the world. 581 00:28:48,295 --> 00:28:52,155 You're not gonna see the same level of serial killings 582 00:28:52,295 --> 00:28:56,035 and school shootings statistically in collectivist nations, 583 00:28:56,035 --> 00:28:58,515 villages in Africa, uh, Asia, 584 00:28:58,745 --> 00:29:00,395 even some countries in in Europe. 585 00:29:01,135 --> 00:29:03,755 But in your more indi, individualistic cultures 586 00:29:03,845 --> 00:29:05,075 where we're sort of competing 587 00:29:05,075 --> 00:29:08,035 with each other more than we are completing each other in 588 00:29:08,035 --> 00:29:10,595 that type of individualistic environment, more loneliness. 589 00:29:10,595 --> 00:29:13,555 More isolation, which paves the way for more violence 590 00:29:17,895 --> 00:29:19,715 - Now from my reporter's notebook. 591 00:29:20,225 --> 00:29:24,715 Some closing thoughts, David Berkowitz serves as an extreme 592 00:29:24,975 --> 00:29:27,555 yet instructive case study about 593 00:29:27,575 --> 00:29:30,875 how social isolation can contribute to violence 594 00:29:31,015 --> 00:29:34,195 by young males, which has become increasingly 595 00:29:34,195 --> 00:29:35,715 common in the United States. 596 00:29:37,215 --> 00:29:39,955 The underlying message of his book, monster Mirror, 597 00:29:40,775 --> 00:29:42,165 is the need for empathy 598 00:29:42,585 --> 00:29:44,445 and emotional intelligence 599 00:29:45,105 --> 00:29:47,725 in today's disconnected society.