1 00:00:01,395 --> 00:00:01,435 - 2 00:00:04,045 --> 00:00:05,155 - Looks are deceiving. 3 00:00:05,615 --> 00:00:07,715 You know, uh, that's a, that's an old adage, 4 00:00:07,715 --> 00:00:09,115 but Luke's are very deceiving. 5 00:00:09,245 --> 00:00:12,235 Don't just because they look clean, cut. 6 00:00:12,685 --> 00:00:15,275 Don't think they are. Well, hell, Ted Bundy. 7 00:00:15,275 --> 00:00:17,675 Look at Ted Bundy. Look at what he did. 8 00:00:18,315 --> 00:00:21,595 I mean, he was a considered a handsome man. Clean cut man. 9 00:00:22,105 --> 00:00:23,515 Look at all the people he did. 10 00:00:24,815 --> 00:00:27,635 - Former Texas prison warden David Staggs 11 00:00:28,245 --> 00:00:31,155 holds a unique perspective on personal safety. 12 00:00:31,975 --> 00:00:33,515 One that emerges from the heart 13 00:00:33,515 --> 00:00:35,555 of Texas most notorious prisons. 14 00:00:36,575 --> 00:00:40,555 He spent a 30 year career overseeing some of the meanest 15 00:00:40,555 --> 00:00:41,995 and most dangerous inmates 16 00:00:42,465 --> 00:00:44,635 that the lone star state has ever known. 17 00:00:45,795 --> 00:00:49,035 I interviewed Stax at the Texas Prison Museum in Huntsville, 18 00:00:49,285 --> 00:00:51,395 where he serves as its director. 19 00:00:52,375 --> 00:00:53,715 Its exhibits show the history 20 00:00:53,715 --> 00:00:56,835 of the world's biggest prison system, the good, 21 00:00:57,295 --> 00:00:58,955 the bad, the ugly. 22 00:01:07,375 --> 00:01:10,515 We delve into a world rarely seen. By most. 23 00:01:11,465 --> 00:01:14,955 It's a world where hardened criminals roam a world 24 00:01:14,955 --> 00:01:18,475 that's been homed to serial killers, sexual predators, 25 00:01:18,535 --> 00:01:22,235 and some of the most violent individuals in Texas history. 26 00:01:23,435 --> 00:01:26,535 You'll want to stay tuned until the end of the episode 27 00:01:27,035 --> 00:01:29,535 to hear the veteran warden answer a question 28 00:01:29,535 --> 00:01:32,015 that I get all the time about the movie, 29 00:01:32,435 --> 00:01:33,975 the Shaw Shank Redemption. 30 00:01:35,515 --> 00:01:38,915 I explore the invaluable insights that Stax has gained 31 00:01:38,915 --> 00:01:41,915 through decades of managing violent offenders 32 00:01:42,415 --> 00:01:45,115 and ask him to share his personal safety tips. 33 00:01:46,085 --> 00:01:49,635 These are lessons forged in the crucible of Texas prisons, 34 00:01:50,095 --> 00:01:52,955 and they are lessons that can help you avoid 35 00:01:53,755 --> 00:01:55,915 becoming a victim of violent crime. 36 00:01:57,385 --> 00:02:00,675 With all your experience of dealing with, uh, violent 37 00:02:01,595 --> 00:02:04,295 criminals behind bars, what advice do you have 38 00:02:04,295 --> 00:02:07,895 to the public about staying safe, being aware 39 00:02:09,215 --> 00:02:10,585 what to be on the lookout for? 40 00:02:11,545 --> 00:02:14,185 - I would tell your listeners the same thing I tell my, 41 00:02:14,285 --> 00:02:15,425 my wife and my family, 42 00:02:15,685 --> 00:02:17,685 and that is one, 43 00:02:20,035 --> 00:02:21,785 don't go somewhere that looks seedy. 44 00:02:22,235 --> 00:02:25,505 Don't care how much you need this shirt or this pant. 45 00:02:25,595 --> 00:02:26,705 Don't go, okay? 46 00:02:27,285 --> 00:02:31,065 Uh, two, for instance, walking down the sidewalk, you need 47 00:02:31,065 --> 00:02:32,905 to assess who's coming at you. 48 00:02:33,565 --> 00:02:34,975 Uh, uh. 49 00:02:35,515 --> 00:02:39,765 Now you can call that, you know, aerial type, 50 00:02:39,765 --> 00:02:41,005 and you can call it whatever you want, 51 00:02:41,145 --> 00:02:44,945 but the heck with that, you got to, you gotta be aware 52 00:02:44,945 --> 00:02:46,625 of your surroundings, and you need 53 00:02:46,625 --> 00:02:48,025 to assess who's coming to you. 54 00:02:48,605 --> 00:02:51,625 If they, if they got their, uh, clothes 55 00:02:51,635 --> 00:02:53,345 where being worn in a certain way 56 00:02:53,465 --> 00:02:55,105 that look like they might be a banger, 57 00:02:55,455 --> 00:02:57,105 they probably are, you know? 58 00:02:57,105 --> 00:02:58,665 Mm-Hmm. . And you need to be aware of that. 59 00:02:59,265 --> 00:03:02,125 Uh, you need to be aware, you know, in my opinion, 60 00:03:02,265 --> 00:03:05,245 if they've got a, a lot of, uh, tear trops 61 00:03:05,245 --> 00:03:07,885 and things like that on their face, that's a sign of, uh, 62 00:03:07,885 --> 00:03:08,965 some criminal activity. 63 00:03:09,705 --> 00:03:12,085 Or at least it was back when the criminals I dealt with. 64 00:03:12,085 --> 00:03:14,325 Mm-Hmm. . Um, and, 65 00:03:14,325 --> 00:03:18,525 and once that person comes to you for that incident as far 66 00:03:18,525 --> 00:03:21,525 as walking on the sidewalk, uh, you turn around 67 00:03:21,525 --> 00:03:23,285 and make sure he's still walking away from you 68 00:03:24,235 --> 00:03:26,605 just don't expect to think that he's still walking. 69 00:03:26,705 --> 00:03:29,975 You need to turn around and verify he ain't turned 70 00:03:29,975 --> 00:03:31,055 around fixing hit you in the head 71 00:03:31,055 --> 00:03:32,775 or put a gun to your back or something like that. 72 00:03:33,475 --> 00:03:38,385 Uh, I would say, I would say for most, like I told my son 73 00:03:39,355 --> 00:03:43,545 years when growing up, my son, he liked to that generation. 74 00:03:43,565 --> 00:03:45,305 My son, they didn't even get ready to go out 75 00:03:45,305 --> 00:03:46,345 until 10 o'clock at night. 76 00:03:46,345 --> 00:03:48,425 Well, my generation, you couldn't wait to get out. 77 00:03:48,605 --> 00:03:50,985 You know, I would tell your audience that they need 78 00:03:50,985 --> 00:03:53,905 to size people up when they beat 'em, 79 00:03:54,015 --> 00:03:55,105 when they're discussing them. 80 00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:57,465 Never turn your back on somebody. 81 00:03:58,085 --> 00:04:00,985 Uh, if you can walk away from a situation, 82 00:04:01,445 --> 00:04:02,745 all means walk away from it. 83 00:04:03,045 --> 00:04:05,065 Uh, it doesn't mean you're a coward. It means you're smart. 84 00:04:05,565 --> 00:04:08,945 Uh, there's been situations in the penitentiary where, uh, 85 00:04:09,525 --> 00:04:13,345 um, I could have engaged in an inmate toe to toe, 86 00:04:14,565 --> 00:04:19,215 but, um, it was best to get some assistance, you know? 87 00:04:19,755 --> 00:04:22,345 And, uh, uh, I think the same 88 00:04:23,385 --> 00:04:24,825 vernacular applies out in the world. 89 00:04:25,245 --> 00:04:27,705 Uh, you need to be smart about your surroundings. 90 00:04:27,705 --> 00:04:29,305 You need to be smart. How you're going to engage. 91 00:04:29,555 --> 00:04:32,245 Watch your, watch your verbiage. 92 00:04:32,705 --> 00:04:34,845 You know, don't get in an argument. 93 00:04:35,205 --> 00:04:38,125 I mean, there's some crazy people out there doing some 94 00:04:38,125 --> 00:04:39,165 crazy stuff right now. 95 00:04:39,485 --> 00:04:41,845 I mean, for no reason. I mean, it, 96 00:04:42,025 --> 00:04:44,805 it floors me what's happening in some of our cities. 97 00:04:45,405 --> 00:04:49,445 , it just, it, it, they walk amongst us. 98 00:04:49,565 --> 00:04:50,565 I mean, just put it that way 99 00:04:52,415 --> 00:04:57,215 - For college, co-eds, any behaviors, you know 100 00:04:57,485 --> 00:05:00,295 that the guy may look like one of them, 101 00:05:00,435 --> 00:05:02,575 or what are, are there behaviors 102 00:05:02,575 --> 00:05:04,135 that you should be watching for? 103 00:05:05,125 --> 00:05:08,125 - Yeah, I, I, you know, just 104 00:05:08,395 --> 00:05:11,325 because you go to penitentiary doesn't mean you've got 105 00:05:11,515 --> 00:05:12,685 tattoos all over you. 106 00:05:13,115 --> 00:05:15,165 Doesn't mean your face is full of tattoos. 107 00:05:15,195 --> 00:05:17,565 Doesn't mean you got a, a gold grill. 108 00:05:17,795 --> 00:05:22,365 Doesn't mean that you, uh, have long, dreamy hair. 109 00:05:23,175 --> 00:05:27,435 There are some well-groomed handsome 110 00:05:27,975 --> 00:05:31,225 men and women in the penitentiary, 111 00:05:33,195 --> 00:05:36,555 and they take advantage of that. 112 00:05:37,875 --> 00:05:40,635 I have a daughter, and I always told my daughter when she 113 00:05:40,635 --> 00:05:42,195 worked at Sam Houston State, same thing. 114 00:05:42,195 --> 00:05:44,635 I told my son, nothing good happens after midnight. 115 00:05:45,975 --> 00:05:50,835 And just because this person may look like he is prim 116 00:05:50,835 --> 00:05:53,425 and proper, you don't go anywhere. 117 00:05:54,255 --> 00:05:57,325 Even if you're stranded, you call me, I'll come get you, 118 00:05:57,755 --> 00:05:59,285 call a friend, call somebody, 119 00:05:59,285 --> 00:06:00,765 but don't go with someone you don't know, 120 00:06:00,765 --> 00:06:03,685 or you just met in class maybe 30 days before. 121 00:06:04,665 --> 00:06:07,925 Uh, to me, whether you're a male 122 00:06:07,945 --> 00:06:11,755 or a female, putting yourself in that environment, 123 00:06:12,625 --> 00:06:14,525 you don't know if you're gonna come outta that environment 124 00:06:15,375 --> 00:06:17,515 in a good shape or not come out of it all. 125 00:06:18,065 --> 00:06:21,075 Yeah. And there's been people, Kenneth mcd Duff's. 126 00:06:21,075 --> 00:06:22,075 A good example of that 127 00:06:23,525 --> 00:06:24,825 - For my new listeners. 128 00:06:25,255 --> 00:06:28,065 Kenneth McDuff was a notorious serial killer, 129 00:06:28,465 --> 00:06:30,785 released on parole under a cloud of corruption. 130 00:06:31,315 --> 00:06:34,585 After walking out of prison, McDuff resumed a spree 131 00:06:34,585 --> 00:06:38,145 of abductions in murders that lasted two and a half years. 132 00:06:39,345 --> 00:06:40,645 Meg Duff briefly worked 133 00:06:40,705 --> 00:06:43,365 as a convenience store clerk after his release. 134 00:06:44,445 --> 00:06:47,805 Coworkers had no idea about his horrific criminal 135 00:06:47,805 --> 00:06:49,165 record to them. 136 00:06:49,265 --> 00:06:53,045 He just looked like a big awkward guy, which is typical 137 00:06:53,625 --> 00:06:57,285 serial killers blend in, they walk amongst us 138 00:06:57,585 --> 00:07:00,455 and don't look scary, at least not 139 00:07:00,545 --> 00:07:02,215 until their mugshot is published 140 00:07:02,215 --> 00:07:03,975 with the gory details of their crimes. 141 00:07:05,335 --> 00:07:06,715 In our previous episode, 142 00:07:07,175 --> 00:07:09,995 stacks recall the well-healed funeral home director 143 00:07:09,995 --> 00:07:12,395 who murdered his wife in cold blood. 144 00:07:13,295 --> 00:07:15,795 He was a pilot and she had turned him in 145 00:07:15,815 --> 00:07:19,755 for smuggling drugs into the US from Mexican cartels. 146 00:07:20,655 --> 00:07:24,875 He killed her, put her body in a bathtub, dissolved her body 147 00:07:24,875 --> 00:07:27,395 with chemicals and down the drain. 148 00:07:27,495 --> 00:07:28,495 She went. 149 00:07:29,675 --> 00:07:32,215 - He was a nice looking man. I mean, he was a handsome man. 150 00:07:32,275 --> 00:07:34,855 He was very professional. I mean, he was a professional. 151 00:07:34,955 --> 00:07:37,175 He was a, he, he ran funeral homes. 152 00:07:37,985 --> 00:07:41,755 Um, yeah, I mean, 153 00:07:41,925 --> 00:07:43,315 don't Lukes are deceiving. 154 00:07:43,735 --> 00:07:45,835 You know, uh, that's a, that's an old adage, 155 00:07:45,835 --> 00:07:47,235 but Lukes are very deceiving. 156 00:07:47,325 --> 00:07:49,135 Don't just 157 00:07:49,135 --> 00:07:51,455 because they look clean, cut, don't think they are. 158 00:07:51,885 --> 00:07:54,295 Well, hell, Ted Bundy. Look at Ted Bundy. 159 00:07:55,115 --> 00:07:56,765 Look at what he did. I mean, 160 00:07:56,765 --> 00:07:58,845 he was a considered a handsome man. 161 00:07:58,855 --> 00:08:01,405 Clean cut man. But look at all the people he 162 00:08:01,405 --> 00:08:02,525 killed, you know? 163 00:08:02,585 --> 00:08:07,205 So, yeah, if there's, uh, my advice to anybody, old 164 00:08:07,225 --> 00:08:11,035 or young, don't put yourself in that situation. 165 00:08:11,455 --> 00:08:13,555 Get to know who you, who you're gonna be around. 166 00:08:14,025 --> 00:08:17,225 Make sure you know what they're capable of and, 167 00:08:17,805 --> 00:08:20,705 and, uh, watch your surroundings. 168 00:08:21,535 --> 00:08:22,555 - Stacks took the measure 169 00:08:22,615 --> 00:08:25,275 of the convicted criminals under his supervision 170 00:08:25,855 --> 00:08:30,275 by studying their behavior past and present. I 171 00:08:30,815 --> 00:08:33,855 - Think your best way of determining 172 00:08:34,775 --> 00:08:36,895 a person's future, look at his history. 173 00:08:38,135 --> 00:08:42,115 That's always been my way of managing a man. 174 00:08:43,345 --> 00:08:47,115 If he has, uh, been a turd all his life, 175 00:08:49,325 --> 00:08:53,745 uh, he's going to have to be, be not a turd for a long time 176 00:08:54,365 --> 00:08:55,965 before I changed my view of him, 177 00:08:56,345 --> 00:08:59,205 and I'm sorry for your listeners using that terminology, 178 00:09:00,065 --> 00:09:03,835 but, um, uh, most, 179 00:09:04,885 --> 00:09:05,925 I think it's pretty common. 180 00:09:06,465 --> 00:09:09,445 Uh, humans are creatures of their, you know, their, 181 00:09:09,455 --> 00:09:10,845 their habits, you know, and, 182 00:09:11,265 --> 00:09:14,955 and, um, a lot of these guys just continue 183 00:09:14,955 --> 00:09:17,315 to do the same stuff and same stuff and same stuff, 184 00:09:17,315 --> 00:09:18,515 because that's all they know, 185 00:09:18,615 --> 00:09:20,315 and that's what all, that's all they want to be. 186 00:09:20,795 --> 00:09:24,315 I don't know how you can't, as a, as a person 187 00:09:24,615 --> 00:09:28,835 who studies the mind, can't associate that behavior with 188 00:09:28,835 --> 00:09:30,155 where that person is right now. 189 00:09:31,775 --> 00:09:33,435 That's my, my view. 190 00:09:33,475 --> 00:09:35,155 I don't know if that clarifies much here, 191 00:09:35,215 --> 00:09:36,955 but that's my kind of my view. 192 00:09:37,075 --> 00:09:38,755 I always looked at the person's history. 193 00:09:39,775 --> 00:09:42,735 I always thought, you know, this guy, he's doing this. 194 00:09:42,835 --> 00:09:46,015 If he was doing good and he was changing his behavior, 195 00:09:46,025 --> 00:09:49,345 first thing in my mind is, why is he doing that? 196 00:09:50,575 --> 00:09:51,955 Why is he changing his behavior? 197 00:09:53,035 --> 00:09:55,335 Is because he really is tired and fed up 198 00:09:55,335 --> 00:09:56,375 and wants to be a good guy? 199 00:09:56,835 --> 00:09:58,335 Or is he trying to manipulate the system, 200 00:09:58,435 --> 00:09:59,975 get in a position where he can do something? 201 00:10:00,325 --> 00:10:02,975 That was always the way I looked at this type 202 00:10:02,975 --> 00:10:04,735 of guy's behaviors is, uh, 203 00:10:05,255 --> 00:10:07,455 although I had a good hope that they were changing 204 00:10:07,475 --> 00:10:10,255 for the right reason, I never put all my money in it. 205 00:10:11,535 --> 00:10:13,735 - A recent escape attempt was foiled 206 00:10:13,955 --> 00:10:17,135 by an alert college student who works at the prison museum. 207 00:10:17,955 --> 00:10:21,935 She spotted an inmate jumping from a 15 foot high red brick 208 00:10:22,045 --> 00:10:25,055 wall around the prison yard of the walls unit. 209 00:10:25,765 --> 00:10:28,775 It's the oldest Texas prison established in 1849, 210 00:10:29,605 --> 00:10:31,655 located in downtown Huntsville. 211 00:10:32,195 --> 00:10:34,415 It also houses the Texas Death Chamber. 212 00:10:35,755 --> 00:10:40,615 - She calls me and she says, uh, uh, her stack says, uh, 213 00:10:42,005 --> 00:10:44,245 I just saw an inmate jump off the wall over here 214 00:10:44,245 --> 00:10:45,285 at the Huntsville unit. 215 00:10:46,225 --> 00:10:49,305 I said, well, where are you? And she told me, gave me a kind 216 00:10:49,305 --> 00:10:51,105 of a geographical, I said, well, gimme a building. 217 00:10:51,105 --> 00:10:52,665 Where are you at? And she told me, 218 00:10:52,745 --> 00:10:54,025 I said, she described the building. 219 00:10:54,145 --> 00:10:57,025 I said, okay. I said, where's the guy at now? 220 00:10:57,055 --> 00:10:58,705 What is he wearing? What color he is? 221 00:10:58,705 --> 00:10:59,825 He said, well, he's a Hispanic, 222 00:10:59,825 --> 00:11:01,185 appears to be a Hispanic man. 223 00:11:01,185 --> 00:11:02,905 He is wearing a white shirt, a white pants, 224 00:11:03,725 --> 00:11:05,665 and he's going to every car 225 00:11:06,635 --> 00:11:08,605 that he sees seeing if it's open. 226 00:11:09,025 --> 00:11:12,005 - The college student who was hot on the trail called the 227 00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:16,325 police, the escapee was on foot headed towards Sam Houston 228 00:11:16,415 --> 00:11:19,285 State University, which has a noted college 229 00:11:19,285 --> 00:11:23,125 of criminal justice Staxx called the prison's warden, 230 00:11:23,145 --> 00:11:26,245 who locked down the walls unit and started counting inmates. 231 00:11:27,315 --> 00:11:30,445 Stax was alarmed because of an escape that turned deadly. 232 00:11:30,605 --> 00:11:34,935 A few months earlier, a fugitive member of a Mexican cartel 233 00:11:36,015 --> 00:11:37,255 executed a family of five 234 00:11:37,475 --> 00:11:40,655 and stole their truck from a rural weekend cabin 235 00:11:41,195 --> 00:11:42,215 to make his getaway. 236 00:11:43,735 --> 00:11:45,335 - I guess it was a natural instinct for me. 237 00:11:45,535 --> 00:11:48,255 I left, I'm not a law enforcement officer, 238 00:11:48,555 --> 00:11:52,855 but we just had a very unfortunate incident happen in Texas 239 00:11:52,975 --> 00:11:57,285 where a whole family got massacred up in Centerville, Texas. 240 00:11:57,545 --> 00:12:01,165 And, and I did not want to see something like that happen, 241 00:12:01,435 --> 00:12:04,045 obviously, in, in Huntsville or anywhere else. 242 00:12:04,995 --> 00:12:07,495 So I got in my truck and I started going, 243 00:12:07,555 --> 00:12:11,735 and I was talking to, um, uh, this young lady, 244 00:12:12,035 --> 00:12:13,095 you know, where are you now? 245 00:12:13,095 --> 00:12:14,375 Where are you now? And I kind 246 00:12:14,375 --> 00:12:16,535 of just cold trailed her phone call messages. 247 00:12:17,235 --> 00:12:20,295 And sure enough, the law enforcement pulled this guy over. 248 00:12:20,395 --> 00:12:23,575 He had stopped at a parking lot at Sam Houston on their 249 00:12:23,575 --> 00:12:26,735 campus, convinced this young student to give him a ride, 250 00:12:28,285 --> 00:12:30,035 still wearing his white uniform. 251 00:12:30,975 --> 00:12:32,795 He got in the car with the guy. 252 00:12:33,295 --> 00:12:36,995 He was a young Hispanic student. They started driving off. 253 00:12:37,275 --> 00:12:39,435 I don't know what the verbiage was. 254 00:12:39,495 --> 00:12:41,995 The discussion was between the student and the convict, 255 00:12:41,995 --> 00:12:43,555 but obviously he convinced him to mm-Hmm, 256 00:12:43,595 --> 00:12:45,835 let him get a ride, and they took off. 257 00:12:46,135 --> 00:12:50,795 And, uh, by the time the officers pulled this vehicle over, 258 00:12:51,475 --> 00:12:54,515 I pulled up, I mean, within just a few seconds, 259 00:12:54,735 --> 00:12:57,355 and got him out, handcuffed him, 260 00:12:57,935 --> 00:13:00,555 and, um, offered my assistance to the law enforcement. 261 00:13:00,705 --> 00:13:02,835 - Earlier in our interview stack's, 262 00:13:03,075 --> 00:13:05,675 personal safety tips included sizing up people 263 00:13:06,335 --> 00:13:08,715 and not going anywhere with a stranger. 264 00:13:09,615 --> 00:13:12,995 Yet, an unwitting college student gave a strange man wearing 265 00:13:13,115 --> 00:13:15,755 a white shirt and pants characteristic 266 00:13:15,755 --> 00:13:18,315 of Texas prison inmates a ride. 267 00:13:19,355 --> 00:13:22,775 Let that be a lesson. I'll be back after this message 268 00:13:35,965 --> 00:13:37,425 during my investigation 269 00:13:37,445 --> 00:13:39,785 of corruption in the Texas Parole Board. 270 00:13:40,485 --> 00:13:44,305 Its unsavory members often justified the release of inmates 271 00:13:44,305 --> 00:13:48,305 with a violent history by describing them as model inmates. 272 00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:54,435 Is any measure of them being, quote, a model inmate 273 00:13:54,435 --> 00:13:55,715 or how they behave in prison? 274 00:13:56,755 --> 00:13:58,415 Is it really a, a true measure of 275 00:13:58,415 --> 00:14:03,025 how they may behave when they're back in society? 276 00:14:04,335 --> 00:14:08,135 - You know, I would say, uh, no, 277 00:14:09,505 --> 00:14:12,595 because, and the reason I say no, you've got 278 00:14:12,595 --> 00:14:15,235 to understand we're, while they're in prison, 279 00:14:15,825 --> 00:14:17,955 they're in a very structured environment. 280 00:14:18,705 --> 00:14:23,205 We're telling them when to get up, when to go eat, 281 00:14:24,435 --> 00:14:27,825 when to shower, when to go to work, when to stop working. 282 00:14:28,935 --> 00:14:31,955 And a lot of those guys need that structure. 283 00:14:32,495 --> 00:14:35,745 And when they get out, 284 00:14:36,955 --> 00:14:40,495 if they don't have a coach out there helping them make those 285 00:14:40,495 --> 00:14:42,135 type of basic decisions that you 286 00:14:42,135 --> 00:14:45,415 and I make every day, uh, they get in a wreck pretty quick. 287 00:14:46,235 --> 00:14:50,815 Now, I will have to say this, I, I have seen some men 288 00:14:52,115 --> 00:14:54,535 who have totally changed their heart. 289 00:14:55,335 --> 00:14:58,015 I mean, there's no doubt in my mind they, they, 290 00:14:58,245 --> 00:14:59,855 they were a change person. 291 00:15:00,555 --> 00:15:04,735 Uh, and, and I'm, I give all that glory to God, you know, 292 00:15:05,035 --> 00:15:06,335 for changing that. 293 00:15:06,595 --> 00:15:09,895 And the outta my whole career are 294 00:15:10,015 --> 00:15:11,055 the ones that have been out. 295 00:15:11,455 --> 00:15:12,895 I can probably count 'em on my hand. 296 00:15:13,535 --> 00:15:17,735 I mean, probably five, six that are gotten out, done well, 297 00:15:18,595 --> 00:15:20,135 or still out and doing well. 298 00:15:20,285 --> 00:15:22,095 Most of 'em have gotten out and have died. 299 00:15:22,875 --> 00:15:24,335 But, uh, there's two or three of 'em 300 00:15:24,335 --> 00:15:27,335 that are still out there that send me, you know, 301 00:15:28,015 --> 00:15:29,455 Christmas card or a birthday card 302 00:15:29,455 --> 00:15:31,775 and say, thank you for showing me the light. 303 00:15:31,915 --> 00:15:35,775 You know, mentoring me, showing me how I need 304 00:15:35,775 --> 00:15:38,655 to change my behavior and change my who I am. 305 00:15:39,285 --> 00:15:42,655 - Finally, I asked Stax a question that I get all 306 00:15:42,655 --> 00:15:45,135 of the time is the depiction 307 00:15:45,135 --> 00:15:48,575 of sexual assault in the Hollywood movie, the Shaw Shake, 308 00:15:48,575 --> 00:15:51,455 redemption true to life Behind bars. 309 00:15:53,855 --> 00:15:55,185 Everybody thinks that 310 00:15:55,995 --> 00:15:59,615 the new inmate coming in is beat down, beat up, 311 00:16:00,265 --> 00:16:01,335 raped, what have you. 312 00:16:01,515 --> 00:16:03,855 What's the, what was your experience in seeing? 313 00:16:04,155 --> 00:16:08,935 - My experience has been that in the 30 years 314 00:16:08,965 --> 00:16:13,215 that I did with the Department of Corrections, I never once, 315 00:16:13,865 --> 00:16:16,295 never once had a sexual assault. 316 00:16:17,725 --> 00:16:19,465 Now, that doesn't mean they haven't happened. 317 00:16:19,465 --> 00:16:23,225 Obviously they have, but I can honestly say I've never had 318 00:16:23,225 --> 00:16:27,665 an inmate get sexually assaulted, raped if, if you will, uh, 319 00:16:28,285 --> 00:16:29,385 on my watch. 320 00:16:30,345 --> 00:16:32,025 Now, that was brought 321 00:16:32,025 --> 00:16:33,625 to my attention, lemme put it that way. 322 00:16:33,935 --> 00:16:36,025 Okay. Now, was there some 323 00:16:36,985 --> 00:16:38,745 consensual sexual activity occurring? 324 00:16:38,975 --> 00:16:40,625 Yeah, unfortunately those things happen. 325 00:16:40,725 --> 00:16:43,305 It is not because we agree to it, we allow it 326 00:16:43,305 --> 00:16:44,385 to happen, but it does happen. 327 00:16:44,765 --> 00:16:48,945 And they know we're, it's kinda like the, the inmate that, 328 00:16:48,965 --> 00:16:51,745 or the, the person that robs, uh, somebody's house, 329 00:16:52,575 --> 00:16:55,905 they know they can probably get in that house, 330 00:16:56,485 --> 00:16:57,745 but they wouldn't try it if there was 331 00:16:57,745 --> 00:16:58,865 a police car in the driveway. 332 00:16:59,495 --> 00:17:00,785 Same way in the penitentiary. 333 00:17:01,005 --> 00:17:02,545 If there's an officer on the cell block, 334 00:17:02,545 --> 00:17:04,625 they're not gonna try and do something illicit. 335 00:17:04,855 --> 00:17:05,865 They're gonna wait till 336 00:17:05,865 --> 00:17:07,545 that officer's gone, then they're gonna try and do it. 337 00:17:07,705 --> 00:17:10,105 I mean, that's just the way human nature is, you know, in 338 00:17:10,105 --> 00:17:11,385 that, that realm of thinking. 339 00:17:12,825 --> 00:17:15,445 But yes, most inmates that come in, uh, 340 00:17:15,675 --> 00:17:17,165 they need to be on guard. 341 00:17:17,235 --> 00:17:19,885 They need to try and isolate themselves as much as they can. 342 00:17:20,065 --> 00:17:22,005 In my observation, uh, 343 00:17:22,005 --> 00:17:24,525 if they have money being brought into them 344 00:17:24,525 --> 00:17:27,005 through the commissary accounts, they need 345 00:17:27,005 --> 00:17:28,725 to minimize what they spend. 346 00:17:28,995 --> 00:17:30,125 They don't need to go down 347 00:17:30,125 --> 00:17:34,245 and buy a hundred dollars worth of, of, uh, uh, candies 348 00:17:34,305 --> 00:17:35,565 and cokes and stuff 349 00:17:35,565 --> 00:17:38,445 because you just told, uh, everybody on that cell block 350 00:17:38,445 --> 00:17:40,805 or in that penitentiary, that's our next target. 351 00:17:41,675 --> 00:17:44,165 That guy, there's got more money and he's small, 352 00:17:44,545 --> 00:17:45,845 or he is big or whatever. 353 00:17:45,845 --> 00:17:47,085 It doesn't matter how big you are. 354 00:17:47,105 --> 00:17:48,925 If you got money, they're gonna try and get you money. 355 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,365 Money. That's what it's about. 356 00:17:51,485 --> 00:17:53,815 - Just like they behave in the outside world. 357 00:17:54,295 --> 00:17:58,215 - Absolutely. The, the prison, I think that's best said. 358 00:17:59,155 --> 00:18:02,455 The prison environment is nothing more than a small 359 00:18:03,315 --> 00:18:05,485 community or what you and I live in. 360 00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:07,995 There's good and bad out there. 361 00:18:08,025 --> 00:18:09,475 There's good and bad in the prison. 362 00:18:10,025 --> 00:18:11,715 There's good things happening in the prison. 363 00:18:11,825 --> 00:18:15,195 There's a lot of powerful things happening in our prisons 364 00:18:15,195 --> 00:18:20,075 here in Texas from faith-based programs to, uh, educational 365 00:18:20,595 --> 00:18:22,875 substance abuse programs, outstanding programs. 366 00:18:23,735 --> 00:18:25,715 But there's some inmates that don't want to have anything 367 00:18:25,715 --> 00:18:27,755 to do with it, and they're not going to have anything to do 368 00:18:27,755 --> 00:18:28,755 with it, and sooner 369 00:18:28,755 --> 00:18:32,315 or later, they have the ability to get out. 370 00:18:34,815 --> 00:18:38,235 - In closing, here's my reporter's recap in reflections. 371 00:18:39,305 --> 00:18:40,795 I've met convicted criminals 372 00:18:40,795 --> 00:18:43,275 who have made remarkable changes in their lives, 373 00:18:43,835 --> 00:18:46,435 becoming better spouses, better parents, 374 00:18:47,015 --> 00:18:48,715 and even successful business owners 375 00:18:48,725 --> 00:18:50,115 after they're released from prison. 376 00:18:51,175 --> 00:18:54,115 But as the veteran warden David Stacks pointed out, 377 00:18:54,645 --> 00:18:58,435 there are also career criminals who do not want to change, 378 00:18:59,295 --> 00:19:00,635 and they're walking amongst us.