1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,600 I always tell people murderers are not born, they're bred. 2 00:00:07,580 --> 00:00:11,000 And when we teach our kids by not teaching them, they're gonna, 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,120 they're gonna revert to the lowest mean, which is violence. 4 00:00:16,830 --> 00:00:19,320 Doug Noel founded the Prison of Peace Project. 5 00:00:20,110 --> 00:00:25,040 Noel teaches hardcore inmates how to deescalate an angry emotional person 6 00:00:25,740 --> 00:00:27,200 in 90 seconds or less. 7 00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:32,040 It's a skill that we could all benefit from learning in this era of violence. 8 00:00:33,490 --> 00:00:37,320 Hello, this is Robert Riggs, taking the Inside the Crime Scene tape. 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,040 In this episode of the True Crime Reporter podcast. 10 00:00:41,190 --> 00:00:43,600 Besides telling interesting crime stories, 11 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:48,640 it is also my mission to educate unless you've been living under a rock. 12 00:00:49,180 --> 00:00:53,600 You know, we live in an epidemic of violence, school shootings, 13 00:00:53,950 --> 00:00:58,400 mass shootings at malls and public places, road rage, murders, 14 00:00:58,590 --> 00:01:00,200 senseless violent acts, 15 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:05,720 and as I've reported outlaw motorcycle gangs shooting each other in 16 00:01:05,730 --> 00:01:07,920 broad daylight on interstate highways. 17 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:11,640 Some days I think the world has gone crazy. 18 00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:17,120 Doug Noel is here to explain the causes and offer a solution that's working in 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:17,953 prisons. 20 00:01:18,460 --> 00:01:22,880 The California lawyer felt a calling in 2010 to create the Prison of Peace 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,760 Project at the Valley State Prison for women in Cilla, California, 22 00:01:28,020 --> 00:01:32,920 the largest women's prison in the world. Here's my interview, Doug Noll. 23 00:01:39,230 --> 00:01:40,920 Doug Noel, from your experience, 24 00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:46,210 give us an impression or try to understanding of why there is so 25 00:01:46,210 --> 00:01:51,210 much anger in society these days of be it road rage, 26 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:52,183 you name it. 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,210 Well, Robert, I think there are, uh, 28 00:01:55,410 --> 00:01:59,050 a number of significant factors that are causing all of this. 29 00:01:59,230 --> 00:02:04,120 The first is that we have politicians who are getting elected based 30 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,960 on fear, and by stirring up anger, 31 00:02:06,740 --> 00:02:10,520 by getting people so enraged at each other that they collect votes and money. 32 00:02:11,660 --> 00:02:15,720 We don't have many politicians who are providing role models for how to handle 33 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:16,873 disagreements. 34 00:02:17,060 --> 00:02:21,720 And so people are going to be naturally inclined to follow people who lead them 35 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,920 into the darkness because they feel good in the darkness. So that's number one. 36 00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:30,000 Number two, people, and I think the pandemic accelerated this have learned, 37 00:02:30,070 --> 00:02:32,960 have lost the ability to learn how to listen to each other. 38 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:38,200 And when we stop listening to each other, we st we start hating each other. 39 00:02:39,180 --> 00:02:41,240 So that's a huge problem. Three, 40 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,000 I think that our educational system has gone into serious decline over the last 41 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,800 three decades, and frankly, 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,160 people just are not as well educated as they were 30 years ago. 43 00:02:51,540 --> 00:02:52,960 And when there is ignorance, 44 00:02:53,130 --> 00:02:58,040 there tends to be a reversion in thinking and discerning truth from 45 00:02:58,580 --> 00:03:01,560 fal and tending to go tribal. 46 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:07,040 So I think all of these factors combined have led to this 47 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,120 polarization and anger and rage that we're now witnessing. 48 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,360 I see people, I've in Dallas, but it's going around the country, 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,520 getting out in traffic over some of the slightest, um, 50 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:22,680 thing and having gunfights, right? 51 00:03:22,910 --> 00:03:26,800 It's something you've only expected in the past that gang bangers might do in 52 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:27,610 trafficking. 53 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:30,400 Right? And what's going on is as a, 54 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,400 as a result of all of these three factors that I'm talking about, 55 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,720 people have a reduced sense of identity. 56 00:03:38,060 --> 00:03:42,640 And when they feel that their identity is threatened or disrespected 57 00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:46,480 and they don't have good emotional competency, 58 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:49,280 they're going to react like six year olds. 59 00:03:49,900 --> 00:03:54,080 The problem is that now they have weapons and 60 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,000 regardless of your stance on weapons, human beings, 61 00:03:59,830 --> 00:04:01,640 I've got a long talk about this, but human, 62 00:04:01,690 --> 00:04:05,040 human beings used to not be able to kill each other. I mean, 63 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,280 a thousand years ago, or uh, say 10,000 years ago, 64 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:08,960 if you wanted to kill somebody, 65 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,960 you had to sneak up on 'em while they were asleep and smash 'em with a rock. 66 00:04:12,470 --> 00:04:16,360 That took a lot of work. And so human beings never evolved. 67 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:21,320 The biological restraint that every other species on the planet has, 68 00:04:22,370 --> 00:04:26,520 there is very little intra species killing going on. 69 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,080 Wolves don't kill wolves. Coyotes don't kill coyotes. 70 00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:35,320 Only humans kill humans. And part of that is evolutionary biology. 71 00:04:35,780 --> 00:04:38,600 We don't have fangs. We don't have claws. We, 72 00:04:38,780 --> 00:04:43,760 so we never developed the biological restraints that exist with other species 73 00:04:43,820 --> 00:04:48,280 of animals. And as we, our, we, our technology developed, 74 00:04:48,860 --> 00:04:52,240 we have found really more and more ways to kill each other, 75 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:53,960 more efficiently. 76 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:58,160 And there's no biological restraint that keeps us from doing that unless they're 77 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,840 societal restraints. And right now with the, 78 00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:06,840 with the polarization and politics, basically the guardrails have come off. 79 00:05:07,420 --> 00:05:12,240 And so people think that it's okay to act out and to to succumb to their 80 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,160 rage and basically kill each other. 81 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:17,600 You know, there's this phrase that I, I've seen, 82 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:22,640 it seems like it's caught fire in the vernacular of you disrespected me. 83 00:05:23,420 --> 00:05:26,320 My wife is a school teacher. She hears it constantly, 84 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,400 particularly from the boys at the middle school level. 85 00:05:29,740 --> 00:05:30,573 Mm-hmm. . 86 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:34,800 That's something I used to kind of just hear in prison. Where, 87 00:05:35,340 --> 00:05:36,600 how has this exploded? 88 00:05:37,150 --> 00:05:38,360 Well, like I said, 89 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,320 I think that it's a combination of no role models for people to follow 90 00:05:44,740 --> 00:05:49,740 low educational levels that people aren't being taught well in school. 91 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,060 And so they tend to be ignorant and people are not listening to each other. 92 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:56,820 And you couple that with 93 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:02,440 no tools to handle conflict because they can't listen and they haven't learned 94 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,840 how to negotiate and they haven't learned how to deal with their differences. 95 00:06:06,430 --> 00:06:11,080 They're gonna revert back to primal behavioral programming, which is violence. 96 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:16,280 And because there's no limitation on the amount of violence that we can impose 97 00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:19,640 on each other, people get killed and they get, 98 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,360 kids get fed of all of this violence all the time on the internet and through 99 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,800 the media and through film. And so they be, 100 00:06:25,930 --> 00:06:30,400 begin to believe that the only solution to a inter interpersonal problem or a 101 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,320 conflict is through violence. And that's what they learn. 102 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,240 I always tell people, murderers are not born, they're bred. 103 00:06:39,260 --> 00:06:42,680 And when we teach our kids by not teaching them, they're gonna, 104 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,800 they're gonna revert to the lowest mean, which is violence. 105 00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:50,650 And you're trying to teach this in the prison system where, you know, 106 00:06:50,670 --> 00:06:53,930 my experience has been in, in Texas in the past, it, 107 00:06:54,110 --> 00:06:59,010 it could be a very violent, violent place if you didn't keep 'em separated. 108 00:06:59,010 --> 00:07:01,450 What are, what are you, what are you teaching there that's working. 109 00:07:01,910 --> 00:07:06,570 In the Prison of Peace Project, which is now around the world? We teach 110 00:07:08,380 --> 00:07:12,910 long-term and life inmates how to become peacemakers and mediators 111 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:14,310 to stop prison violence. 112 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:19,910 And we do this to a very rigorous curriculum that my co-founder, 113 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,750 loyal Coffer and I have developed over now it's going on 14 years 114 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,670 based on our experience as professional peacemakers and mediators 115 00:07:30,570 --> 00:07:33,070 and our study of human conflict. 116 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:37,430 And we have successfully delo deployed this program across the United States, 117 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:41,350 primarily in California, but also in other states and in Europe. 118 00:07:42,370 --> 00:07:44,950 And as long as we have the support of the prison authorities, 119 00:07:44,950 --> 00:07:49,670 we have seen dramatic decreases in yard violence on the 120 00:07:49,670 --> 00:07:52,390 yards where we have taught prison of peace. 121 00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:58,110 And the very first skill that we teach is a listening skill that allows you 122 00:07:58,210 --> 00:08:01,390 to, to calm any angry person in 90 seconds or less. 123 00:08:01,410 --> 00:08:04,910 That's the foundation of our program. Alright, well, 124 00:08:05,330 --> 00:08:09,750 the story is that I'm a lawyer. I was a hardcore trial lawyer, 125 00:08:09,750 --> 00:08:12,990 civil trial lawyer, not criminal lawyer, civil trial lawyer for 22 years. 126 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:16,510 Through a series of events that I won't bore you with, 127 00:08:17,150 --> 00:08:19,190 I decided that I couldn't be a trial lawyer anymore, 128 00:08:19,210 --> 00:08:22,510 and I went back to school and earned my master's degree in peacemaking and 129 00:08:22,510 --> 00:08:27,150 complex studies. And I left the practice of law in 2000 to become a peacemaker. 130 00:08:28,010 --> 00:08:32,430 One of the things that I did not learn was how to call an angry person. And, 131 00:08:32,730 --> 00:08:36,750 but I had been studying neuroscience for years because I understood that all 132 00:08:37,070 --> 00:08:39,430 conflict and peace originates in the human brain. 133 00:08:39,810 --> 00:08:42,670 So I was in a very difficult conflict in 2005, 134 00:08:43,970 --> 00:08:47,990 and I had no idea how to help these people get outta their conflict and find 135 00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:52,870 peace. And the thought came to me, it was really an epiphany, 136 00:08:53,450 --> 00:08:54,670 listen to the emotions, 137 00:08:55,700 --> 00:08:59,640 and when I have them start listening to the emotions of each other and not their 138 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,400 words, it, 139 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:04,880 it was miraculous within a couple of hours, 140 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:08,760 they had not only settled the case, this happened to be a divorce couple. 141 00:09:09,150 --> 00:09:09,760 They got out, 142 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,480 they got up and left the room holding hands and having lunch with each other. 143 00:09:13,940 --> 00:09:17,000 And at the beginning of the process, if there had been knives on the table, 144 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,760 there would've been blood on the floor, literally. So I knew what I'd done, 145 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,600 I couldn't believe it. I started testing it in other conflicts, 146 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,600 and I got the same results. Then in 2007, Matthew Lieberman, 147 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:32,200 a neuroscientist at U C L A, 148 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:36,680 released a brain scanning study that showed what happens in the brain when you 149 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,000 engage in this process called ethic labeling. 150 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:44,240 And what his brain scanning studies show is when you label somebody's emotions, 151 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,160 when you tell them actually what they are feeling, 152 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:51,160 the emotional centers of the brain are inhibited. And at the same time, 153 00:09:51,260 --> 00:09:54,960 the executive function of the brain in the right ventral lateral prefrontal 154 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,240 cortex is activated. 155 00:09:56,900 --> 00:10:01,560 And the process literally takes 90 seconds and you can take any 156 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,960 raging in insanely mad person and calm them down in a 157 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:07,793 minute and a half. 158 00:10:08,990 --> 00:10:12,810 And once I had the science to explain the experience that I I had, 159 00:10:12,890 --> 00:10:17,410 I started refining the skills until is where it is today. 160 00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:21,730 And in fact, the, the acid test is what we in the President Peace Project, 161 00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:22,743 as I said, 162 00:10:22,910 --> 00:10:26,610 the foundational skill we teach our inmates on the very first day of the program 163 00:10:27,230 --> 00:10:31,410 is how to listen to and reflect somebody else's emotions. And it's very simple. 164 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:33,930 Ignore the words, read the emotions, 165 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,370 reflect back the emotions with a use statement. When you master that skill, 166 00:10:39,230 --> 00:10:41,450 you will never have a fight or argument again in your life, 167 00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:42,450 no matter who you are, 168 00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:45,090 whether you're a convicted murderer or just person out on the street. 169 00:10:45,870 --> 00:10:49,530 Are there physical cues they're trying to, to read? 170 00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:51,810 Can you enlighten me a little more here? 171 00:10:52,070 --> 00:10:53,690 The first thing you wanna do is ignore the words, 172 00:10:53,690 --> 00:10:56,090 because if you listen to the words, you're going to get triggered. 173 00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:59,770 So we don't wanna get triggered when somebody's spitting it in our face 174 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,850 screaming at us. So we just, just make it white noise. 175 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,410 Then the second step is to learn how to read emotions. 176 00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:09,290 And our brains are hardwired to do this through evolu. 177 00:11:09,290 --> 00:11:13,650 There's a whole set of information around evolutionary biology, 178 00:11:13,780 --> 00:11:16,250 about how we develop the ability to read emotions. 179 00:11:16,990 --> 00:11:20,770 94% of all human communication is nonverbal only, 180 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,770 only 6%, 7% is involving words. 181 00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:28,850 So we can afford to not listen to the words for 90 seconds 182 00:11:29,830 --> 00:11:31,610 and just listen to the emotions. 183 00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:34,250 And there's a technique for learning how to do that. 184 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:39,370 And then we reflect the emotional experience that the person is having 185 00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:44,810 by simply telling them what they're feeling. So I would say, Robert, man, 186 00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:49,010 you are really pissed off. You're angry, you're frustrated, 187 00:11:49,070 --> 00:11:53,090 you feel completely disrespected. You feel ignored and not heard. 188 00:11:53,740 --> 00:11:56,560 You feel like you're being treated unfairly, 189 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,520 and you're completely unappreciated and unsupported, 190 00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:02,560 and you're worried and concerned and anxious, 191 00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:09,130 and you're sad because nobody's connecting to you and you feel unhappy and 192 00:12:09,140 --> 00:12:11,690 upset. And Robert, 193 00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:16,330 you feel really abandoned and all alone and rejected and completely betrayed, 194 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:18,930 and you feel unloved and unlovable. 195 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,010 Just doing that causes the emotional centers of the brain to inhibit 196 00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:29,570 and the right event, lateral prefrontal cortex to activate. 197 00:12:29,790 --> 00:12:32,050 You'll get four autonomic responses. 198 00:12:32,050 --> 00:12:34,930 You're gonna be looking for a nodding of the head yes, up and down, 199 00:12:35,890 --> 00:12:40,890 A verbal response like yeah, a dropping of the shoulders and a sigh of relief, 200 00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:46,170 all involuntary unconscious relaxation responses that show that the brain is 201 00:12:46,170 --> 00:12:47,730 com being completely calmed. 202 00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:53,330 And then that point in time you can engage in whatever you need to engage in. 203 00:12:53,330 --> 00:12:56,770 Maybe it's problem solving, maybe it's negotiation, maybe it's nothing at all. 204 00:12:57,180 --> 00:13:00,650 Maybe it's apology. It really depends on the context and the circumstance. 205 00:13:01,270 --> 00:13:04,850 But at that point in time, that person feels deeply listened to and validated. 206 00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:10,210 I call it listening another person into existence. And we have watched, 207 00:13:10,630 --> 00:13:14,610 we have, well, not watched, we have heard stories of our students, 208 00:13:15,130 --> 00:13:19,850 incarcerated students stopping gang rights in violent prisons using 209 00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:24,730 these skills. Extremely powerful. I'll also say this, of the 800, 210 00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:28,650 we have 800 of our incarcerated students who have been released on parole in 211 00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:32,530 California in the last 14 years. Not one of them is re-offended, 212 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,890 zero recidivism. And the reason is, 213 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,330 when you learn these skills, you change who you are as a human being. 214 00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:46,210 One of the things I've noticed in my time inside prison talking to inmates was 215 00:13:46,210 --> 00:13:49,410 there was many of, they're missing a cognitive skills. 216 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,490 They don't even seem to be aware that there's a consequence for their actions. 217 00:13:55,070 --> 00:13:56,650 Do you address this kind of thing as well? 218 00:13:57,230 --> 00:14:02,170 We do, but we're very careful not to judge or criticize 219 00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:05,890 or condemn our students. In fact, 220 00:14:05,890 --> 00:14:08,410 in many cases we don't even know why they're in prison. We, 221 00:14:08,410 --> 00:14:11,210 and we really don't wanna know, right? We just take the people where they're at, 222 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,370 they learn themselves the skills, 223 00:14:15,510 --> 00:14:20,090 the cognitive skills that allow them to change and transform as human beings. 224 00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:22,210 Because one of the one in the more advanced training, 225 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:26,930 one of the things that we talk about is how do you morally reengage somebody 226 00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:30,290 who's morally disengaged? And that come, 227 00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:33,730 that came out of a chapter in my third book, lucid Peace, 228 00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:35,410 where I talk about how do you mediate evil? 229 00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:39,610 So when we teach them that and we teach them self-reflection, 230 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:43,850 and we teach them how to emotionally self-regulate all part of the training we 231 00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:44,290 engage in, 232 00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:49,210 they go through a growth process and they come to realize all of the problems 233 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,160 that they had in their past lives that led them into prison in the first place. 234 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,160 There's not one person who's in prison who is not deeply emotionally abused. 235 00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:00,360 And they start recognizing that, and they get, 236 00:15:00,380 --> 00:15:04,640 and as they recognize it on their own, they start then processing it. 237 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,840 And then as they become peacemakers and mediators, 238 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,560 they start seeing the same behaviors and patterns in their peers 239 00:15:12,020 --> 00:15:12,880 on a prison yard. 240 00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:17,280 And now they have the tools to start addressing it and helping other people 241 00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:21,600 resolve conflict without violence. And that changes them inside themselves. 242 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:26,200 You're teaching kind of face-to-face skills. What about when people are in cars, 243 00:15:26,390 --> 00:15:31,000 something is with that barrier between them and they're reacting. 244 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,060 I mean, I, I tell my friends, look, practice stoicism, 245 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,860 you know, just ignore it. just, it really is so small, 246 00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:41,420 somebody cut you off. So what. 247 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,700 So what happens when we're cut off is that that can be an 248 00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:47,773 emotional trigger. 249 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,820 And the emotional trigger was programmed into us probably in childhood, 250 00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:56,380 probably by being not well connected to our parents being disrespected. 251 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,100 And so our knee-jerk reaction is rage because that's a protective 252 00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:02,540 mechanism we learned as children. 253 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,740 And if we don't take the time to recognize our 254 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:13,460 triggers and get rid of them reprogram ourselves, then we're, 255 00:16:13,510 --> 00:16:17,820 we're totally at the mercy of our unconscious 256 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:21,780 scripts that were developed by us to protect us in childhood. 257 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,540 But we're never unpro deprogrammed in adulthood, 258 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,900 and now we're adults and we have some agency and 259 00:16:30,630 --> 00:16:31,060 we're just, 260 00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:35,900 we're basically walking time bombs unless we take the time to 261 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:37,380 learn how to reprogram ourselves. 262 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,020 One of the things we do with our incarcerated students is we spend a whole day 263 00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:46,060 teaching them about triggers and how to deprogram their own triggers so that 264 00:16:46,060 --> 00:16:48,900 we're, they're, when they're mediating a an intense conflict, 265 00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:53,540 they don't get sucked into the conflict vortex. They can remain out of it calm, 266 00:16:53,690 --> 00:16:54,860 cool, and compassionate. 267 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,180 And they can also understand why the conflict arose in the first place, 268 00:16:59,180 --> 00:17:03,740 because they can see the triggering effects of various behaviors that happen 269 00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:05,820 not only in prison, but outside of prison. 270 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,780 So it's a skill that has to be developed. And as I said earlier, 271 00:17:09,830 --> 00:17:11,060 these skills are not taught. 272 00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:14,620 Educators in fact are completely uninterested in teaching these skills. 273 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,700 And these skills are not taught in families because families don't know what 274 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:19,180 they're doing. Uh, 275 00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:24,180 there was a great psychologist and therapist back in the 1970s 276 00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:26,700 and early eighties, a woman by the name of Virginia Satir, 277 00:17:27,010 --> 00:17:29,580 very famous in her time, and she, she made the quote, 278 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,980 94% of all families are emotionally dysfunctional. 279 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,540 And then somebody on her heels said, and the other 6% are lying. 280 00:17:39,310 --> 00:17:42,650 And it is true. Our families are emotionally dysfunctional. 281 00:17:42,650 --> 00:17:46,330 And so part of the problem we have is that we have this idea of the nuclear 282 00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:50,200 family and everything wholly comes outta the family when in fact, 283 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,640 nothing holy comes out of the family. 284 00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:56,960 Most families abuse their children, they don't even know they're doing it. 285 00:17:57,540 --> 00:18:01,960 And they create this vicious intergenerational cycle of, 286 00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:06,200 from the extreme with people who end up in prison to just being ordinarily 287 00:18:06,590 --> 00:18:11,000 dysfunctional. And in between the, the kind of things we see with road rage, 288 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:15,120 that's all based on childhood programming that occurs because parents themselves 289 00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:18,640 are emotionally incompetent. Not that they're at fault for that, 290 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,840 it's just they were never trained any better than their parents. 291 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:24,520 And they pass on the same thing generation to generation. 292 00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:25,880 And we can break the cycle. 293 00:18:26,660 --> 00:18:29,880 And so it's not just a behavior, it's suddenly emerges in adulthood. 294 00:18:30,270 --> 00:18:32,240 It's been cooking and percolating. 295 00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:33,840 That's right. And it's, 296 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:39,080 it's aggravated when you've got open carry laws and people can be in their truck 297 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,240 or their car and pull a pistol off the seat and p take it and shoot somebody on 298 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,073 impulse, 299 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:48,360 you have low impulse control because you're not well educated because you 300 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:50,000 haven't developed yourself emotionally. 301 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,680 You're emotionally incompetent and you have the ability to act on impulse with 302 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,360 violence. You pull the gun up and shoot somebody. 303 00:18:57,060 --> 00:18:58,720 And that's how we get to where we are today. 304 00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:03,760 You know, I know, uh, criminal prosecutors here that they can carry, 305 00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:06,480 but they don't because they're like, you know, 306 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,760 I don't want something in traffic or risk temper or something. So they don't. 307 00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:15,120 Well, prosecutors are well educated people. They're lawyers and, but that, 308 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,200 that's not like everybody else. I mean, 309 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,400 imagine somebody who's got barely has a high school education and didn't even do 310 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,880 well in high school, has got us a, 311 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,440 a weak male identity because they're kind of going nowhere with their lives 312 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:32,920 and they bolster their identity by being macho and masculine. 313 00:19:33,060 --> 00:19:36,120 And they gotta prove themselves all the time that they're tough and mean, 314 00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:39,680 and they're actually not tough and mean they're actually weak and they don't 315 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,920 have any strong skills. 316 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:45,200 So that gun there is the way that they can prove to everybody else that, look, 317 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,080 don't mess with me, or I'll shoo you. And that's, 318 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,000 that's a mentality that's growing and growing and growing and it's sick and it's 319 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,240 wrong. And it's a complete failure of our society and a complete failure of our 320 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,200 political system and a complete failure of our educational system 321 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:12,180 Biologically, 322 00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:16,840 we are not prepared to inhibit our own worst impulses. 323 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:19,880 And without gun control, 324 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:24,760 we will exercise no impulse control and start shooting people. 325 00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:27,880 And that's why you're seeing all of this going on. There's no impulse control. 326 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:31,360 People aren't even, they're not thinking about the consequence. 327 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,240 Prison is not a deterrent to these people. 328 00:20:34,050 --> 00:20:37,680 Crime is not a deterrent to these people. They're not even thinking about it. 329 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,840 They just get enraged. They pull up the gun, they shoot, 330 00:20:40,820 --> 00:20:44,280 and of course they have to pay consequences if they're caught. 331 00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:49,280 But I can guarantee you that a jail time or prison time was not 332 00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:54,400 processing through their head when they got angry and acted out of impulse. 333 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:57,880 Do you see this psychology as a factor in the, uh, 334 00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:01,520 we so many mass shootings today? Absolutely. Young men? 335 00:21:01,950 --> 00:21:03,280 Well, the thing that's interesting about, 336 00:21:04,580 --> 00:21:07,360 one of the things that's really interesting about the mass shootings is there's 337 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:12,000 been some really strong neuroscience at looking at the brains of 338 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:16,240 these mass murders with brain scans and PET scans, 339 00:21:16,260 --> 00:21:17,960 all the different kinds of scanning technology, 340 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:23,080 and they all show the same kind of physiological 341 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,240 deficiencies. I mean, 342 00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:29,560 it's amazing to look at the brain of a gunman, 343 00:21:29,770 --> 00:21:32,840 young gunman, look at that brain compared to a normal brain, 344 00:21:32,860 --> 00:21:37,400 and then compare the gunman's brain to other gunman's brains, 345 00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:39,760 and they all show the same deficiencies. 346 00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:44,680 So it is a function of brain deficiency. You can call it mental illness. 347 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:45,713 I don't like that term, 348 00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:50,800 but there are physiological differences between mass murderers and other people. 349 00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:54,480 And there are physiological similarities between mass murderers. 350 00:21:56,410 --> 00:21:57,670 You see the same kind of, 351 00:21:57,730 --> 00:22:01,470 the same kind of brain structure in mass murderers across the board, 352 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,390 which is really fascinating. So again, this is, this is all predictable. 353 00:22:06,850 --> 00:22:07,350 And in fact, 354 00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:11,710 there's science right now that allows us to predict whether a two year old can 355 00:22:11,710 --> 00:22:14,390 potentially become a mass murderer in 10 or 15 years. 356 00:22:14,890 --> 00:22:17,670 People don't want that science because, you know, obviously we don't, 357 00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:20,630 we don't wanna be judging two year olds as to whether or not they're gonna be a 358 00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:22,870 mass murder or not. But it's that predictable. 359 00:22:23,260 --> 00:22:25,350 Well, it would tell us about how to nurture them. 360 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,310 Exactly. But again, I mean, 361 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,670 there are too many people in this country who think that that's socialism to go 362 00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:31,830 in or, you know, the, 363 00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:36,110 the government has no business in working with families that are dysfunctional 364 00:22:36,340 --> 00:22:39,590 because they assume, they don't assume that's families are dysfunctional, 365 00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:41,710 they assume families are functional when they're not. 366 00:22:42,290 --> 00:22:44,350 Do you see this issue of among women as well? 367 00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:48,920 Yes, but not as much. I mean, I've worked in the largest, 368 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:52,160 most violent women's prison in the world. That's, that's where we started. 369 00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:57,320 And you, you see that it's the same behaviors. They're just not women and 370 00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:00,240 for, for a lot of different reasons. 371 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,280 They're just not quite as many women who succumb to this kind of impulse 372 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:08,160 as men do. And I think that's cultural. 373 00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:11,160 Well, where do you hope that the project will go? Well. 374 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,040 The prison project is gonna be expanding. We're already, like, 375 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,960 we're in 15 California prisons, prisons in Connecticut. 376 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:21,000 We've got 15 prisons in Greece, a prison in northern Italy. 377 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,960 We're gonna have a startup in Denmark over the pandemic. 378 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:27,680 We videotaped the entire curriculum, we filmed it with a Hollywood film crew, 379 00:23:27,740 --> 00:23:32,240 so now we're able to subtitle it and offer the curriculum anywhere in the world. 380 00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:37,440 This year we are testing the deployment of this 381 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,840 curriculum, uh, 382 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:43,280 in California prisons to figure out what are the best ways to deploy this. 383 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,840 In the next year. We're gonna be, um, 384 00:23:46,460 --> 00:23:50,800 hoping that it will be deployed not only across the United States in 385 00:23:51,150 --> 00:23:54,520 prisons in each jurisdiction, but also, uh, around the world. 386 00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:56,600 And so we hope that, you know, 387 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,280 sometime in the not so distant future prison of peace will be a staple of, 388 00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:02,440 of every penal institution. 389 00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:04,440 And are you a nonprofit? 390 00:24:04,930 --> 00:24:06,800 We're a nonprofit. 5 0 1 C three. Yes. 391 00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:09,440 So you're not taking money from these states? 392 00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:11,360 We get grants. Uh, 393 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:15,320 we're primarily funded in California by the Department of Re Rehabilitation and 394 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,160 Correct, uh, the department Corrections and Rehabilitation. We have had, 395 00:24:19,290 --> 00:24:23,120 we've also been privately funded by some family, family funds. Mm-hmm. 396 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,000 , uh, our Connecticut project is funded by a family foundation, 397 00:24:26,350 --> 00:24:29,800 significant amounts of money. And so, you know, 398 00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:34,400 we've been able to do a lot with a little, and that's, that's how we operate. 399 00:24:35,670 --> 00:24:38,480 Well, our prison system used to be called T D c, 400 00:24:38,490 --> 00:24:41,160 Texas Department of Corrections. I have to tell you, 401 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,320 I really never saw anything rehabilitative or corrective about it. 402 00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:48,750 Do you see any systems out there that are. 403 00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:50,190 Not in the United States? 404 00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:55,990 The United States has a weirdly strong desire for retributive 405 00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:56,823 justice. 406 00:24:57,290 --> 00:25:00,790 What's interesting about retributive justice is the victims never feel like 407 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:05,870 they're getting justice. Um, if you watch, for example, if you watch a, 408 00:25:06,030 --> 00:25:10,750 a video interview of a victim survivor who has watched the execution 409 00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:16,110 of a murderer who killed a family member, you will never see the mepi Skippy, 410 00:25:16,110 --> 00:25:20,990 happy, joyous. It's always somber. And they'll always say platitudes like, 411 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:26,030 well, Carol can sleep in peace knowing that justice has been given by the 412 00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:27,950 execution of this evil person. 413 00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:31,430 But when the victim survivor is saying that they are not happy, 414 00:25:33,010 --> 00:25:36,270 and there is no justice in retributive justice, 415 00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:40,590 especially when the state is the victim state of Texas versus 416 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,830 state of California versus mm-hmm , 417 00:25:42,850 --> 00:25:46,830 the true victims never really get justice. So that's the first big problem. 418 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:50,830 The second is that unlike almost every other country in the world, 419 00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:56,310 the United States has the death penalty and, and has life sentences. 420 00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:59,390 I think in Europe, if I'm not mistaken, 421 00:25:59,530 --> 00:26:03,870 the longest sentence that anybody could ever serve in Europe for any crime is 25 422 00:26:03,870 --> 00:26:06,470 years. And there is no death sentence. 423 00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:11,840 It's a completely different way of looking at the societal problem of crime. 424 00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:17,160 And I think we we're long overdue for rethinking our approach to crime and 425 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:18,800 criminal behavior here in the United States. 426 00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:22,600 I'll just say this for my conservative friends, I'm an independent, 427 00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:24,360 I'm not Republican, I'm not Democrat, 428 00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:28,400 but just so you can understand the magnitude of the problem here in California, 429 00:26:28,940 --> 00:26:33,520 we spend as much money on prisons as we spend on our entire higher educational 430 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,240 system, 15 to $17 billion a year. Where's the sense in that. 431 00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:43,160 What would justice look like for a victim taking your approach? 432 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:44,680 I, in my experience, 433 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,320 having mediated over 150 or 200 criminal cases between victims 434 00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:50,413 and offenders, 435 00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:55,640 what I have experienced is that when victims feel like they've been heard 436 00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:57,053 and listened to, 437 00:26:57,180 --> 00:27:01,400 and offenders have truly listened to the impact of their 438 00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:05,320 offense and harm and injury on the victim, 439 00:27:06,100 --> 00:27:09,120 that's when we begin to see healing occur. 440 00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:15,640 And that's the only time I've seen people feel like they really 441 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,800 have had some justice. They've been heard, they've been listened to, 442 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,920 they've been dealt with respectfully, and their voice mattered. 443 00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:25,240 That does not happen in the litigated retributive justice system. 444 00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:26,280 Well, and you know, 445 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,400 we have changes in law here we're it's sentencing the victim's, 446 00:27:30,580 --> 00:27:35,040 the victim's family can speak out, but it's usually full of anger. And frankly, 447 00:27:35,260 --> 00:27:40,160 the the convicted the offenders got a who cares screw you of attitude 448 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:40,470 as well. 449 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:42,200 Well, that's right because, and the part of, 450 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,120 part of the problem with our system, I mean, it, it, it creates the, 451 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:51,000 our system creates a really interesting dichotomy or conflict because on the 452 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,400 one hand, to invoke constitutional rights, you have to say not guilty. 453 00:27:56,580 --> 00:28:00,760 Now that forces the burden of proof onto the state to prove the crime beyond a 454 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,400 reasonable doubt. But at the same time, it forces an offender to lie. 455 00:28:06,580 --> 00:28:10,880 And so now they are living this lie, I'm not guilty, I'm not guilty, 456 00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:14,800 I'm not guilty. And, and so now they can't possibly take responsibility mm-hmm. 457 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,280 for a crime mm-hmm. because they've been told, say, 458 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,113 you're not guilty. 459 00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:24,040 And I recognize the importance of our constitutional rights, 460 00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:28,520 but I also recognize the social problem of not being allowed to take 461 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,760 accountability and, and, 462 00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:33,720 and make reparations for a crime. 463 00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:38,240 And it's a big problem and not an easy one to solve. I'm not gonna solve it. 464 00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:40,000 Oh no. Personally, 465 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,760 I've always felt that the prison system is Texas is one giant 466 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,280 monument to failure of the education system here. 467 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,520 I would, I would agree with that. 468 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,680 And I would add that's also a failure of how we, 469 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:57,560 how we help families grow children. 470 00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:03,920 You know, if we taught parents how to be emotional coaches for their children 471 00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:08,720 and every parent learned how to listen to their children and learned how to 472 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,280 become an emotional coach for both themselves, the parents, 473 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,480 and also for their children, we wouldn't have prisons in 20 years. 474 00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:19,120 What are the chances of this eventually being taught in, 475 00:29:19,220 --> 00:29:20,600 in the public school system. 476 00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:22,280 Right now? Slim next to zero? 477 00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:27,480 And the reason for that is because our educational system is based on the myth 478 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,313 of rationality. 479 00:29:29,390 --> 00:29:33,520 It's based on the idea that what separates us human beings from other species of 480 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,640 animals is rational thinking. And it's a myth. 481 00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:40,480 There is no science to support that we are not rational beings. In fact, 482 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,280 there is no such thing as rationality. 483 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,560 I teach a graduate course at Pepperdine University called decision making under 484 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,320 stress and uncertainty. 485 00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:52,280 And the first thing I ask my graduate students to do is define rationality. 486 00:29:52,860 --> 00:29:55,640 And none of them can do it. And the reason is, 487 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,960 there is no definition of rationality that works, none, zero. 488 00:29:59,710 --> 00:30:03,480 What neuroscience is teaching us is that we are emotional beings. 489 00:30:04,790 --> 00:30:08,040 What separates us from all other species is emotions. 490 00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:12,040 We are the only species on the planet with emotions. 491 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:15,440 No other, no other species have emotions. They have affect, 492 00:30:16,370 --> 00:30:20,440 which is something different than emotion. All emotion is based on affect, 493 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:24,160 but only we have emotions. Every decision we make is an emotional decision. 494 00:30:24,620 --> 00:30:25,200 And in fact, 495 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,480 that decision is made 750 milliseconds before we're even aware that we've made 496 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:30,313 the decision, 497 00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:35,040 which is getting into some really interesting discussions around whether or not 498 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,640 we actually operate under free will. And there are many, many, 499 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,320 many neuroscientists who say, no, there is no such thing as free will. 500 00:30:45,340 --> 00:30:50,040 So these are all really interesting concepts that have profound implications in 501 00:30:50,180 --> 00:30:51,760 law and policy and government. 502 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:56,240 But the fact of the matter is that because educators are based on rational 503 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,400 thinking or so-called rational thinking, 504 00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:03,200 and not on emotions and not on neuroscience, they're loathed to change. 505 00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:05,600 And so they're not going to change. 506 00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:12,010 How do you recommend that individual person in a situation kinda step back and 507 00:31:12,030 --> 00:31:14,210 not let the emotions overtake them? 508 00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:20,330 Learn how to label your own emotions. So before I labeled you, 509 00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:22,850 Robert, if I were to sit and I am, 510 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,370 when we get into situations where we're going, we're triggered, 511 00:31:27,870 --> 00:31:31,450 we immediately take a breath and say, well, 512 00:31:31,450 --> 00:31:34,370 let me just give you an example and this is how I cured some of my triggers. 513 00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:37,210 Imagine that you're in a parking lot and it's pouring rain and it's 514 00:31:37,450 --> 00:31:41,330 December 24th and you've gotta run into the mall and grab one last gift. 515 00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:44,450 And you've been waiting to get into this, a parking stall, 516 00:31:44,890 --> 00:31:47,490 somebody pulls out and you're about to pull in. 517 00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:51,410 And some guy in his big dually pickup truck with a big gun rack and guns on the 518 00:31:51,650 --> 00:31:54,090 back pulls in in front of you. He sees you waiting there. 519 00:31:54,090 --> 00:31:54,930 He knows you've been waiting, 520 00:31:55,790 --> 00:32:00,490 but he pulls in and just takes the spot violating all social norms around 521 00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:04,090 queuing and waiting and being patient and waiting your turn. Alright? 522 00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:07,050 There are a couple of different ways that you can handle that. 523 00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:10,450 One is to get really pissed off, but the other is to say, 524 00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:15,010 God dang it, I am so angry and pissed off at this guy. 525 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,450 What a complete jerk. I feel completely disrespected. 526 00:32:19,290 --> 00:32:20,610 I feel completely ignored. 527 00:32:20,770 --> 00:32:25,690 I feel like I'm nothing in front of this guy and I'm really, really angry. 528 00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:26,490 In fact, 529 00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:31,370 I'm enraged and I'm anxious 'cause I gotta get in the store and it's 530 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,210 five o'clock on Christmas Eve and I gotta get home. 531 00:32:34,670 --> 00:32:39,520 And so I'm feeling a lot of time pressure and I'm a 532 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,000 little embarrassed about all of this. 533 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:46,520 And I'm sad because this guy obviously must be living a miserable life 534 00:32:47,060 --> 00:32:51,160 for him to have to hog in front of everybody else. He's clearly suffering. 535 00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:56,880 So I can have compassion for him and it's okay that he took the spot because 536 00:32:57,220 --> 00:33:00,000 he has a life of misery and I have life of joy. 537 00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:02,770 Okay. 538 00:33:02,770 --> 00:33:04,950 And that's how you do it just like that. Yeah. 539 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,993 Makes sense. 540 00:33:06,490 --> 00:33:09,230 It works. I mean, I've got the neuroscience to prove it. 541 00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:10,430 Well. I'm like, 542 00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:13,910 it's not worth it getting out in a gun battle and ending up in jail either. 543 00:33:14,150 --> 00:33:16,310 I know what jail, I know what prison looks like. 544 00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:18,990 . It never is. Mm-hmm. , it never is. 545 00:33:19,210 --> 00:33:22,550 But we need to do a better job of teaching people emotional self-control, 546 00:33:22,770 --> 00:33:24,230 and that's not something we're talking about. 547 00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:28,430 Can you recommend for the audience any books they can read for the lay person? 548 00:33:28,770 --> 00:33:28,990 My. 549 00:33:28,990 --> 00:33:32,230 Fourth book came out in 2017, Simon and Schuster. 550 00:33:32,620 --> 00:33:34,110 It's called Deescalate, 551 00:33:35,230 --> 00:33:38,230 how to Calm an Angry Person in 90 Seconds or Less. 552 00:33:39,010 --> 00:33:43,390 You can get it on Amazon for 13 bucks. It's audio and printed. 553 00:33:44,020 --> 00:33:47,270 I've seen it on the book stands and I never bought it. I'm sorry. Yeah, 554 00:33:47,330 --> 00:33:48,163 but I am now. 555 00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:52,350 That's Yeah, it's in five different languages. So if you don't speak English, 556 00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:54,950 you can probably find a language that you can, can speak. 557 00:33:55,460 --> 00:33:58,150 Well, I want my kids to read it and I need to get my, 558 00:33:58,250 --> 00:34:01,310 my wife needs to get it in front of her students. That's right. 559 00:34:01,310 --> 00:34:04,550 Because there is something going on out there that hasn't been going. 560 00:34:04,550 --> 00:34:07,670 On. That's, that's right. If you, if people are interested in learning more, 561 00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:09,750 I've got a lot of YouTube videos up. 562 00:34:09,850 --> 00:34:13,350 But the one video that will really show you, 563 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,230 especially how to work with children is called How to Calm an Angry Child In 30 564 00:34:17,230 --> 00:34:19,830 Seconds. And just put Google that, 565 00:34:20,450 --> 00:34:22,310 how to Calm an Angry Child in 30 seconds. 566 00:34:22,370 --> 00:34:25,590 And that little 10 minute video will show you everything you need to know. Okay. 567 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,470 About how to read and, and calm an angry child. 568 00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:31,070 Doug. No, that's the last word. 569 00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:35,470 Thank you so much for coming out and we'll put links to your book and resources 570 00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:39,670 in the, uh, podcast. And feel free to reach out to us anytime. Thank. 571 00:34:39,670 --> 00:34:40,503 You, Robert. 572 00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:44,630 In closing, here's my reporter's recap and reflections. 573 00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:50,110 A recurring theme in my past stories has been the impact of the lockdown on 574 00:34:50,110 --> 00:34:54,190 people's emotions during the Covid Pandemic. Plus, 575 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:57,270 there's the loss of civility in American politics. 576 00:34:58,130 --> 00:35:00,150 As you may know from a previous episode, 577 00:35:00,310 --> 00:35:04,750 I worked as a congressional staffer in the early 1970s and later in the 578 00:35:04,990 --> 00:35:05,710 1980s, 579 00:35:05,710 --> 00:35:10,150 I covered the administration of President Ronald Reagan and Congress as a 580 00:35:10,350 --> 00:35:11,830 reporter. Today, 581 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,990 those institutions look like an alien from outer space. To me, 582 00:35:16,770 --> 00:35:20,350 you can't insult people and then expect them to vote for your legislation. 583 00:35:21,150 --> 00:35:25,190 Politics used to be the art of compromise, but now it's a blood sport. 584 00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:27,590 I can tell you this, 585 00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:32,070 having worked on a defense committee with a top secret security clearance, 586 00:35:32,730 --> 00:35:35,950 and as a reporter covering wars and national security, 587 00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:40,040 our adversaries love what's happening to our democracy, 588 00:35:41,020 --> 00:35:44,680 and they are chipping away at it because at the end of the day, 589 00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:48,520 they want our wealth, they want our stuff. 590 00:35:49,540 --> 00:35:51,640 Are we going to just give it all away? 591 00:35:53,180 --> 00:35:57,600 You've been listening to the True Crime Reporter podcast. Stay true, 592 00:35:57,870 --> 00:36:02,520 stay safe, and stay tuned for more stories from inside the crime. 593 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,360 Scene tape. This is Robert Riggs reporting.