1 00:00:03,530 --> 00:00:07,990 The high school baseball player hung a homemade motivational sign on the wall of 2 00:00:07,990 --> 00:00:08,823 his bedroom. 3 00:00:09,530 --> 00:00:13,870 It read Brandon Puffer will be a major league baseball player. 4 00:00:14,810 --> 00:00:15,450 Indeed. 5 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:20,230 Puffer made it to what ball players call the show only to 6 00:00:20,230 --> 00:00:23,990 fall from the bullpen, the state penitentiary in Texas. 7 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:25,850 Hello. 8 00:00:25,850 --> 00:00:30,430 I'm Robert Riggs here with a story from inside the crime scene tape that 9 00:00:30,610 --> 00:00:32,310 begins on a baseball diamond. 10 00:00:42,740 --> 00:00:47,630 Brandon Puffer was a pitcher on the Boston Red Sox baseball team when they broke 11 00:00:47,710 --> 00:00:52,030 a century curse and won the World Series in 2004. 12 00:00:53,070 --> 00:00:54,290 But four years later, 13 00:00:54,810 --> 00:00:58,730 a Texas jury sentenced puffer to five years in prison. 14 00:00:59,590 --> 00:01:03,090 He survived the tough Texas prison system and Is now out. 15 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,780 Huffer has written a book titled From the Bullpen to the State Pen, 16 00:01:08,190 --> 00:01:13,020 which he opens up about his experience in this episode of True Crime Reporter 17 00:01:13,380 --> 00:01:17,060 h Huffer shares the story of his setbacks and back. 18 00:01:18,460 --> 00:01:21,620 I got drafted outta high school. So you think you're kind of a big deal, right? 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,820 And you show up to rookie ball in the minor leagues. Um, I was in Fort Myers, 20 00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:30,060 Florida, and essentially when it comes to the pay it, it, 21 00:01:30,060 --> 00:01:33,300 they're doing better now from what I understand. But it was very minimal. 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,460 So you had your very minimal pay, I wanna say about 850 a month. 23 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,780 And then they took money out for a hotel and then they took money out for your 24 00:01:40,890 --> 00:01:43,940 food that they fed you at the hotel and you didn't really have an option on 25 00:01:43,940 --> 00:01:46,420 that. And so by the end of the day, just give you an idea, 26 00:01:46,670 --> 00:01:50,300 there was one two week check I had been fined, so that was my fault. 27 00:01:50,460 --> 00:01:54,020 I made a bonehead decision, got fined, I got $50 for two weeks. 28 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,340 And I literally said to the Minnesota Trends, I said, how do I live off this? 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,820 And they said, we don't, we just look at the bottom line. We don't, 30 00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:03,780 you know what I mean? There's just deductions and this and that and that's it. 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,740 So it was very minimal and, and um, you know, you just, the pay is not there, 32 00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:10,180 but the ultimate goal is you wanna be in the big league. So you, 33 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,740 you persevere and you fight through it. 34 00:02:12,820 --> 00:02:17,080 But there are 5,000 of you in the minors that want 35 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,830 750 roster positions. Many which are taken already by stars. 36 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:24,890 Very true. Yeah. That's, 37 00:02:24,890 --> 00:02:28,250 I think that's where the mental part of the game comes in and just really 38 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:33,170 focusing on your process and not letting external things like how many folks 39 00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:36,410 you're competing against or how many spots there are. And I'll be honest, 40 00:02:36,490 --> 00:02:40,010 I learned that in one day, Robert. I, I looked at the spring training rosters. 41 00:02:40,530 --> 00:02:43,210 I was in the very lowest I was in rookie ball and there's rookie ball, 42 00:02:43,210 --> 00:02:45,410 single a aa, triple A major leagues. 43 00:02:45,670 --> 00:02:49,010 And I looked at each roster and they were all had about 50 people on them. 44 00:02:49,230 --> 00:02:51,610 And as you know, there's only gonna be 25 on each. 45 00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:54,730 And it really shook me up and I said, Hey, from here on out, 46 00:02:54,750 --> 00:02:57,930 I'm not looking anymore. I'm just gonna put my head down and go to work and, 47 00:02:57,950 --> 00:02:58,783 and hope for the best. 48 00:02:58,790 --> 00:03:01,980 And so you do have to kind of block out some of that external stuff. 49 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:08,870 So I, I want you to talk about the journey to what you call the show Sure. 50 00:03:09,090 --> 00:03:13,950 And where you go. But getting out of the miners, I mean, 51 00:03:13,950 --> 00:03:15,630 how do you do that? Is it a grind? It. 52 00:03:16,030 --> 00:03:18,790 Absolutely is a grind. Um, and I'm honest. I, you know, 53 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:21,710 I have a program now and we've had some kids drafted and so obviously they wanna 54 00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:26,630 pick my brain about that. And I'm very honest. It is an absolute grind. I mean, 55 00:03:26,690 --> 00:03:31,110 day in and day out. Uh, the hotels aren't nice, the bus rides are long, 56 00:03:31,210 --> 00:03:33,110 the fields, it depends. Some are okay. 57 00:03:33,690 --> 00:03:36,630 And you really just have to remember your why and, 58 00:03:36,650 --> 00:03:40,190 and where you wanna ultimately go. And I think several guys give up. 59 00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:41,470 I I call it a war of attrition. 60 00:03:41,470 --> 00:03:45,990 They quit or give up right before their opportunity might happen. Right. I, 61 00:03:46,030 --> 00:03:48,350 I was released four times before I ever made it to the big leagues. 62 00:03:48,350 --> 00:03:51,510 And if at any point in those four I would've said, you know what? 63 00:03:51,850 --> 00:03:53,470 I'm not good enough. It's not for me, 64 00:03:53,660 --> 00:03:56,710 then I would've never got to experience that great mountaintop of the big 65 00:03:56,710 --> 00:03:59,470 league. So it's just, uh, again, I hate to sound cliche, 66 00:03:59,470 --> 00:04:03,030 but just being focused on this is all I've ever wanted to do and nothing is 67 00:04:03,030 --> 00:04:06,870 gonna keep me from from that or quitting or stopping short of all 30 teams 68 00:04:06,870 --> 00:04:08,470 saying, you're just not good enough. Right. Well. 69 00:04:08,470 --> 00:04:11,070 Tell us about the day that you did get called up to the show. 70 00:04:11,620 --> 00:04:15,630 Sure, yeah. What an awesome day. It was, uh, April 17, uh, 71 00:04:15,730 --> 00:04:19,230 2002 I was in AAA with the Houston Astros. 72 00:04:19,790 --> 00:04:22,390 I was playing for the New Orleans Zephyr. And after the game, 73 00:04:22,410 --> 00:04:24,470 our manager called me in and uh, 74 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:27,590 they had a couple injuries in the bullpen in Houston. And he said, puff, 75 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:31,310 your team needs you. And, uh, you're meeting the team in Cincinnati tomorrow. 76 00:04:31,310 --> 00:04:34,990 Your flight leaves in the morning. Uh, what a thrill. You know, just packed up, 77 00:04:35,310 --> 00:04:39,030 teammates congratulating me, called my family, enjoyed all those moments. 78 00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:39,870 And then, um, 79 00:04:39,870 --> 00:04:43,630 the next day I met the team in Cincinnati and just had that surreal feeling of 80 00:04:43,630 --> 00:04:46,670 walking into that major league clubhouse and seeing my jersey hung up and, 81 00:04:46,730 --> 00:04:49,710 and all those neat things. So it was, it was a wonderful opportunity and, 82 00:04:49,710 --> 00:04:50,950 and just a great memory for our family. 83 00:04:51,130 --> 00:04:55,230 And how much of that do you think was driven by talent versus timing? 84 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,230 There has to be a combination of all of that, uh, talent, timing, uh, 85 00:05:00,230 --> 00:05:02,910 even a little bit of luck. But I, I think timing you, 86 00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:05,910 you kind of hit on it is the best way. Cause when it comes to the talent aspect, 87 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:10,070 most guys in the minor leagues most, you know, you have your, 88 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:13,710 your outliers are pretty equal in talent. It's pretty close anyway, 89 00:05:14,050 --> 00:05:17,790 but really separates guys is is their per their consistency. 90 00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:22,510 Consistency I should say. So some guys can do it really well every now and then, 91 00:05:22,510 --> 00:05:23,670 but you can't really rely on 'em. 92 00:05:23,670 --> 00:05:28,470 So I think when I learned to be consistent in my routine and then I became more 93 00:05:28,470 --> 00:05:32,750 consistent in my outings, I think that's where they go, okay, this guy's ready. 94 00:05:32,770 --> 00:05:34,830 Cuz he is being consistent as opposed to, 95 00:05:34,830 --> 00:05:39,110 we've seen flashes from these other guys, but we just can't rely on 'em. 96 00:05:39,110 --> 00:05:42,470 We can't count on 'em. Right. So it's consistency and then absolutely. Timing. 97 00:05:42,490 --> 00:05:43,830 And of course I think everybody in that, 98 00:05:44,330 --> 00:05:47,110 in that system has talent or they wouldn't be there. And. 99 00:05:47,310 --> 00:05:48,143 You're a pitcher? 100 00:05:48,490 --> 00:05:49,323 Yes. 101 00:05:49,970 --> 00:05:51,630 Uh, right-handed, left-handed. 102 00:05:51,950 --> 00:05:55,910 Right-handed pitcher. Um, towards the end I was a right-handed sidearm pitcher. 103 00:05:56,330 --> 00:05:57,070 And I mean, 104 00:05:57,070 --> 00:06:01,310 it always struck me as that boy that is the pressure point on the team. 105 00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:05,270 Sure. Yeah, it is. I mean, it, it certainly can be a, 106 00:06:05,470 --> 00:06:09,710 a lonely place if it's not going well or you know, a place of, um, hey, 107 00:06:09,710 --> 00:06:09,910 you know, 108 00:06:09,910 --> 00:06:12,950 I'm gonna put this team on my shoulders and kind of be a leader out here. 109 00:06:13,010 --> 00:06:15,830 And obviously you're in every pitch and you kind of, 110 00:06:16,330 --> 00:06:19,910 the timing and the the mm-hmm. Everything about the game kinda is, 111 00:06:19,970 --> 00:06:23,790 is set by you. And so I think catcher's probably the most important. Cause they, 112 00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:26,790 they're the general back there. I love the catching position, but yes, 113 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:30,670 pitcher is, uh, can again, can be lonely, but also can be very rewarding. 114 00:06:31,540 --> 00:06:33,680 And so did it teach you something about stress? 115 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:37,600 It has to be incredibly stressful. Everyone's watching and Yeah, you, 116 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:39,000 you might be having a bad day. 117 00:06:39,860 --> 00:06:42,120 It did, it taught me a lot about that. And, 118 00:06:42,140 --> 00:06:46,160 and really what it taught me was the power of positive self-talk, 119 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:49,480 the power of controlling your breathing, um, 120 00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:54,440 different mantras that I had because it was easy to get up there and 121 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,320 start thinking about all the external things like you're facing guys that were 122 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,480 your idols and the stadium's packed. And I always tell people, 123 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:03,000 my dad was a huge Dodger fan. We, 124 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,680 we watch games together and he'd be yelling at the relievers and I'm like, 125 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,400 picturing all these people in this town of Houston mad at me cuz I'm letting 'em 126 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,320 down. So you have to kind of really get intentional about your, 127 00:07:12,430 --> 00:07:14,160 your mental game once you get there. 128 00:07:15,140 --> 00:07:18,120 And then you moved on to a world championship? 129 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,560 I did. I ended up, um, after the Astros, 130 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,520 I got a little bit of time with the San Diego Padres and then I was traded to 131 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,960 the Boston Red Sox in 2004, the year in won the World Series. 132 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,160 I was called up extremely briefly, um, in September. 133 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:37,000 And I think just because they were so ecstatic to winning the first one in, 134 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:37,920 you know, hundreds of years, 135 00:07:38,430 --> 00:07:41,160 they gave anybody who was on the roster at any point during the year, 136 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,840 a World Series ring. So I was a small part of that. Um, certainly didn't, 137 00:07:45,020 --> 00:07:46,600 didn't, um, you know, 138 00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:50,680 help or contribute all that much other than when I was with the Padres. Uh, 139 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,360 we played against the Red Sox in Fenway and we lost the game and I pitched for 140 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,880 the Padres. So a little bit, I did contribute a little bit, 141 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,400 but I didn't pitch that for Boston at all. 142 00:07:59,610 --> 00:08:00,170 But still, 143 00:08:00,170 --> 00:08:03,830 you ended up with a World series ring and that not many people do that. Yes. 144 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:06,470 But that's what, 2004? 145 00:08:07,010 --> 00:08:07,843 Yes, sir. 146 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:10,740 And in reading your book and your history, 147 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:13,460 it sounds like the wheels start to come off after. 148 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:18,220 That. Absolutely. That is the year prior to that year, I had, 149 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:21,860 I had, I become sober. I went through a program, I quit drinking and, 150 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,900 and all those things. So I was sober for five years and I, 151 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:28,820 that was where my career really took off because I was healthy and taking care 152 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:31,900 of myself and resting and all the things you need to do to compete at a high 153 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:36,060 level. And in 2004 I got separated from my first wife, um, 154 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,420 and I was not accountable anymore at home. 155 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,780 And I had a little more of that downtime and my mind was going and I ended up, 156 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,380 you know, for lack of a better term, 157 00:08:44,380 --> 00:08:49,220 falling off the wagon in 2004 and really let that battle back in my life. 158 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,900 And from then on was scrapping and battling, um, from oh four through oh eight, 159 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,700 the end of my career. Um, very tough job or, um, 160 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:01,660 very tough lifestyle for someone with those addictions. Um, 161 00:09:01,660 --> 00:09:05,500 there's a lot of downtime, a lot of things kind of offered to you that, um, 162 00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:07,940 I had a hard time, you know, uh, managing. 163 00:09:08,730 --> 00:09:11,030 And did you start having a problem with your elbow. 164 00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:14,670 That it could pretty well that is, yeah, I did. I did. I, I had, um, 165 00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:17,630 I guess that was about that time, about 2004, 166 00:09:17,630 --> 00:09:21,790 I had a big bone spur come up in my elbow, a big hook in my elbow. And, um, 167 00:09:21,810 --> 00:09:25,070 you know, just kind of slowly but surely my stuff, 168 00:09:25,130 --> 00:09:28,310 my actual physical stuff on the mound started to decline a little bit. 169 00:09:28,410 --> 00:09:32,950 And so certainly my my off the field as well as on the field on the declines in 170 00:09:33,270 --> 00:09:34,103 thousand four. 171 00:09:34,290 --> 00:09:35,990 But you end up in north of Dallas, 172 00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:39,270 where I am at Frisco with the Frisco Ruff Riders. Yes. 173 00:09:39,270 --> 00:09:41,710 Which is the farm team for the Texas Rangers. 174 00:09:42,350 --> 00:09:44,670 Baseball team. Absolutely. As aa affiliate for the Rangers. 175 00:09:45,290 --> 00:09:47,910 And you're a player coach, which I would think, man, that's, uh, 176 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:49,313 what you'd love. 177 00:09:49,870 --> 00:09:52,330 Yes. I absolutely adored it. My, 178 00:09:52,350 --> 00:09:55,090 my whole goal was to be a coach after my career, so it was, it was a, 179 00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:56,290 it was a segue into that. 180 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,220 Yeah. But one day on the field there, you're wearing the, 181 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,980 the jersey and the next day you're wearing a, an orange prison jumpsuit. Yes. 182 00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:06,813 What happened? 183 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,180 Yes. So I, um, again, as I alluded to, 184 00:10:10,260 --> 00:10:14,780 I had these issues with alcoholism and I just knew for me, uh, uh, 185 00:10:14,780 --> 00:10:18,220 some guys could just go blow off some steam after the game. No problem for them. 186 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:21,260 They recovered. They're all good. I just didn't have that off switch, 187 00:10:21,260 --> 00:10:23,900 Robert and I knew that. So it was all on me to make a choice. 188 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,100 Either go to your hotel and do what you're supposed to do or go out. 189 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,980 And I had fought these guys. So these guys were, um, 190 00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:31,820 on the Frisco Rough riders were all 19 and 20, um, 191 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,300 big time prospects who all ended up making pretty good careers or a lot of 'em 192 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:38,260 did. I was 32, uh, had already been in the big, 193 00:10:38,260 --> 00:10:40,620 it was kinda like Bull Durham Crash Davis scenario. 194 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,820 And they just kept pulling on me to go out and I wish I could say peer pressure 195 00:10:44,970 --> 00:10:48,260 ends. I fought it for the whole year and by the end we were celebrating the 196 00:10:48,260 --> 00:10:51,900 championship and I made that compromise and I went out with the guys and I, 197 00:10:52,140 --> 00:10:56,060 I drank too much and I got over served and I ended up, um, as you said, 198 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,420 in jail the next day with a pretty serious charge that would ultimately lead me 199 00:11:00,420 --> 00:11:03,660 to a five year sentence in Texas Department of Criminal Justice. 200 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,980 And I went and served almost four years in prison for that. And so definitely a, 201 00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:11,860 uh, rock bottom moment, a um, a watershed moment in my life. For sure. 202 00:11:13,250 --> 00:11:16,580 We're gonna pause for a moment for a word from our sponsor. 203 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,820 And when we come back, 204 00:11:17,980 --> 00:11:22,460 I want to talk to you about aunt being on trial and going to the Texas prison 205 00:11:22,460 --> 00:11:23,293 system. 206 00:11:27,140 --> 00:11:28,720 I'm talking with Brandon Puffer, 207 00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:33,680 who was a big league baseball player who went from wearing the, uh, 208 00:11:34,020 --> 00:11:38,440 the jersey and what they call the show to an orange jumpsuit and later the white 209 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,040 jumpsuit in the Texas prison system. Brandon, 210 00:11:43,020 --> 00:11:46,600 you got intoxicated, you overdid it, you were fighting addiction. 211 00:11:47,470 --> 00:11:51,480 What happened just in general that got you arrested? 212 00:11:52,370 --> 00:11:55,420 Sure, yeah. You know, I, I'm pretty open about my story, Robert. 213 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,820 And what had happened was I went back to an apartment complex that I had stayed 214 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:02,420 in the year before, previously with my family. However, 215 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,660 my family was not with me. And, um, a couple of the guys were staying there. 216 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:09,300 And I, something in my overserved brain and, 217 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,660 and a lot of this I got from those guys, I kept saying, Hey, 218 00:12:11,660 --> 00:12:14,020 I have a friend that lives in here. I'm sure they're having a party. 219 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,940 I'm gonna go check. They're saying, Hey, go to bed. It's, 220 00:12:16,940 --> 00:12:19,220 it's three in the morning, go to bed. I went over, 221 00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:21,340 knocked on the door and I'm just gonna detail for you. 222 00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:24,860 It just depends on the audience of how much detail I go into. But, uh, 223 00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:27,820 essentially what I did is I knocked on that door. She did not answer, 224 00:12:27,820 --> 00:12:31,540 obviously it's three in the morning. I walked in the door was unlocked. 225 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:32,460 And that's sad to say, 226 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:35,740 I walked in and I tried to get in bed with her and I got a burglary of a 227 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:40,620 habitation. So I, I kind of sobered up once I, I she screamed, 228 00:12:40,620 --> 00:12:42,780 which is the worst part of this whole thing for me to recount. 229 00:12:42,990 --> 00:12:46,260 Cause that's the one thing I remember is, is I took away your sense of safety. 230 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,140 And so fortunately I, you know, I didn't do anything or touch her or anything, 231 00:12:50,140 --> 00:12:54,420 but when she screamed, I jumped up, I ran out. And, um, you know what, 232 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,700 I put myself in that situation, 233 00:12:55,700 --> 00:13:00,180 burglary of a habitation because I walked in where I wasn't supposed to 234 00:13:00,570 --> 00:13:02,500 with an intent to commit a sexual assault. 235 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:06,100 Cause what is your intent if you're at three in the morning and you're trying to 236 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:09,420 jump in bed and my brain and playing baseball and living the lifestyle? 237 00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:14,380 I lived somehow thought, oh sure, this is gonna be okay. Right. And so, 238 00:13:14,420 --> 00:13:18,420 I mean, saying that now obviously is, you know, like anyone else would react. 239 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:20,460 I respond like, what, what an idiot. What, you know, 240 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,620 but at that time and that overserved brain, I thought, sure, 241 00:13:23,710 --> 00:13:24,740 we're gonna go and hang out. 242 00:13:25,370 --> 00:13:28,100 Well, and you, you talked about that, uh, in your world, 243 00:13:28,490 --> 00:13:31,100 alcohol would lead to promiscuity. 244 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,860 Yes. For me especially, I mean, I can't speak for everybody, you know, and I, 245 00:13:34,860 --> 00:13:36,340 and I don't know, I, I've, 246 00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:38,860 I've taken on the journey of healing and all those things. 247 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,620 I had some childhood traumas in the form of sexual abuse and stuff. 248 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,620 And so I don't know if there was something in there that just every time I went 249 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,500 and, and, uh, you know, drank, that was the next thing is, you know, you know, 250 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,900 try to be a man and connect with a woman or something like that. So yeah, 251 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:54,060 it wasn't an issue for me. 252 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,540 So you can, you know, this is a, you can do five to 99 on this charge. 253 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,500 Did you understand or did it hit you at some point of just how much trouble 254 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:04,820 and risk you were in? 255 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,180 Or did it end up being a shock later when the verdict came down? 256 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,180 You know what, Robert, I don't know if it ever fully hit me, 257 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,820 but I really kind of disengaged from any, you know, 258 00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:18,980 internet or anything like that. I was just really with my family leaning in. 259 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,260 And one day I, I googled my name, I was like, I just, 260 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:23,700 I gotta see what's going on. And, 261 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,740 and I saw former Houston Astros reliever faces five to 99 years at first I'd 262 00:14:28,740 --> 00:14:31,540 ever heard of it. I'm sure my attorney told me, but I was just so, 263 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,020 it was just such an out-of-body experience. I didn't really, uh, ingested, 264 00:14:36,020 --> 00:14:39,580 I guess. And when I saw that, I said, wow. Oh my goodness. 265 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,260 And so going into the trial, he had mentioned, you know, 266 00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:44,140 you've never been in trouble, these types of things. 267 00:14:44,140 --> 00:14:46,460 You have some good character witnesses, you know, 268 00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:50,940 most likely you'll get probation, that kind of thing. But still, I had no idea, 269 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,340 you know, it's a huge range. 270 00:14:54,090 --> 00:14:55,350 But you didn't get probation. 271 00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:56,590 You I did not. You got. 272 00:14:56,590 --> 00:14:57,423 A five-year sentence. 273 00:14:58,420 --> 00:14:59,253 Yeah. 274 00:14:59,380 --> 00:15:04,060 When that verdict came down, what, what did it say inside to you? 275 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,820 Oh, that's a great way to, that's a great question, a great way to form that. 276 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,660 The only thing I really remember is obviously it was a, it was a gut punch, 277 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,340 you know, Hey, five years going to prison. And they, pretty quickly, 278 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,740 the bailiffs came and put me in handcuffs as they do. And I just, 279 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,420 I looked at 'em and I said, can I go say bye to my dad? And they said, no. 280 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:23,620 And they took me off. 281 00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:27,180 And right there is when I really kind of got the feeling of, okay, 282 00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:30,220 this is kind of your new normal, you don't have choices anymore, 283 00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:32,100 you're not making your own choices or decisions. 284 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,740 And they pulled me off and put me in a holding cell to call my belongings. 285 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,380 And that's where it really sunk in. I, 286 00:15:38,620 --> 00:15:41,180 I literally remember and can visualize it every time I share this, 287 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,220 the bars clanking and me sitting in that cell. And that's where it was like, 288 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:45,940 okay, yeah, 289 00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:49,100 you're not getting out of this and this is your consequences for your actions 290 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,700 and you're gonna try to make the most of it. 291 00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:54,410 And then typically in Texas, you'll, 292 00:15:54,410 --> 00:15:58,940 you'll do a maybe a day a month in county jail until 293 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,180 it becomes your time to go to the state penitentiary, which is Oh, 294 00:16:02,260 --> 00:16:06,300 a total different experience. Yes. You ride the bus to the penitentiary. 295 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:10,980 Just tell that story for so people really understand what Yeah. 296 00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:12,540 What that's like and what happens. 297 00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:16,180 Yeah. So to to your point, um, you know, 298 00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:18,820 I was in the county jail and you kind of wait on that day and you know, 299 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:21,940 there's other folks in there have kind of been through the system and they try 300 00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:25,500 their best to prepare you and, and what to expect. And, um, 301 00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:27,940 for obvious reasons or maybe not so obvious, 302 00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:29,780 they don't tell you when they're picking you up, you know? 303 00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:32,220 Cause if someone was to try to, you know, meet you there, 304 00:16:32,420 --> 00:16:33,620 whatever the case may be, they don't tell you. 305 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,540 So you basically get a knock on your bunk at about three in the morning, 306 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,500 you know, usually middle of the night and says, Hey, pack your stuff. 307 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:40,940 You're on chain is what they call it. 308 00:16:40,940 --> 00:16:44,580 And they chain you to a bunch of other guys heading down to the same area. 309 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,140 We ended up going to an intake unit in Gurney, pretty much walk in, 310 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:51,740 they stripped you down naked, shave your head, check you for everything, 311 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,780 get you, get you through the whole process. And I mean that in itself, 312 00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:57,540 obviously, you'd finally found your little rhythm and routine in county, 313 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,820 you know, just, hey, figure out how to get through each day. 314 00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:04,620 And now is another shell shocking moment to be in actual prison and, 315 00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:06,420 and intake. So that happened. 316 00:17:06,420 --> 00:17:09,020 And then it just so happened as well that it was summertime. 317 00:17:09,020 --> 00:17:13,300 There's no AC in Texas prisons. Uh, we were on a lockdown for nine days, 318 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,620 so I didn't leave my bunk. And it was just the reality of like, Hey, this, 319 00:17:16,620 --> 00:17:19,980 this is it. Now you need to figure out how to be, you know, 320 00:17:20,250 --> 00:17:23,620 have your life have purpose and meaning and what does that look like in here? 321 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,940 And so, yeah, it was a pretty rude awakening as it as it should be. I mean, 322 00:17:26,940 --> 00:17:27,980 that's why it's created that way. 323 00:17:29,420 --> 00:17:33,040 Did you find yourself looking over your shoulder wondering if somebody's gonna 324 00:17:33,310 --> 00:17:37,910 assault me, try to take my stuff? Tell, tell me about that adjustment. 325 00:17:38,770 --> 00:17:43,140 Yeah, so every day the answer is yes. Every day In county, 326 00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:46,700 a few guys who had done time kind of told me what to expect. 327 00:17:46,860 --> 00:17:50,620 I heard things like, you'll have to join a gang with your race. And I, 328 00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:53,580 I even kinda said, guys, that's just not gonna happen for me. I, 329 00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:57,020 I'll do whatever I have to do. I'll protect myself, whatever it is. But, uh, 330 00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:59,020 essentially my faith is gonna get me through. 331 00:17:59,740 --> 00:18:03,580 I am going to just be the most positive influence I can be in that place. 332 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,580 And you know what I I, I did know, 333 00:18:06,580 --> 00:18:11,060 I heard when you get to a new dorm or a new cell is when they're really gonna 334 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:11,880 try to test you. 335 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,780 So I would sit down and set my stuff down and certainly in my mind was thinking 336 00:18:15,780 --> 00:18:16,520 at any moment, 337 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,980 I'm gonna have to protect myself and maybe I'll have to do whatever I have to 338 00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:22,020 do. You know, and I'll be honest with you, I, I didn't, 339 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,300 didn't really happen for me very often. I was respectful to people. 340 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,020 I'm a bigger guy. 341 00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:30,100 Some people say that helps because they kind of prey on weaker people. 342 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,780 So I didn't really necessarily have a, a real difficult time like with that, 343 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:37,300 other than just the mental aspect of seeing it, 344 00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:41,340 watching it happen to other people, uh, expecting any moment it could be you, 345 00:18:41,850 --> 00:18:42,683 that type of thing. 346 00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:45,630 I would think it, I mean, 347 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:49,830 I've spent a lot of time on the other side of the bars in the ma prisons and I, 348 00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:53,910 but I would think that you would have to have a moment when you see the ones 349 00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:57,150 that are really big screw ups. You're like, wait a minute, 350 00:18:57,370 --> 00:18:58,870 how have I ended up with these guys? 351 00:19:00,590 --> 00:19:05,490 You know, Sort of , that's a hard one to answer. 352 00:19:06,370 --> 00:19:09,770 I always actually talk more about the amount of men. 353 00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:12,930 And certainly there were some where you're like, wow, it's pretty scary. 354 00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:16,250 And I mean, mental illness is clear in some cases and you're just like, 355 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,290 steer clear. That's a pretty dangerous person. 356 00:19:18,590 --> 00:19:22,370 But then also just the amount of people I met that were great men, 357 00:19:23,290 --> 00:19:27,290 talented men, like athletes on the rec yard or artists or musician, you know, 358 00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:28,330 whatever the case may be, 359 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,050 that were in that same place had the same plight because of one bad choice or 360 00:19:33,050 --> 00:19:34,970 addiction. And 99% of the time it's, 361 00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:37,370 it's alcohol and drug related no matter what they did. 362 00:19:37,790 --> 00:19:41,170 And so that really kind of took me back, you know, of like, wait a minute, 363 00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:44,930 there's some really good guys in here. And I mean, you'd have to be on your, 364 00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:45,170 you know, 365 00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:48,410 you have to certainly protect yourself and not get too comfortable or anything 366 00:19:48,410 --> 00:19:50,570 like that. But it's like, wait a minute. 367 00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:52,690 Like I can relate to a lot of these people. I just thought, 368 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,570 this is gonna be a bunch of bad guys. I don't belong here. It's like, no, they, 369 00:19:55,810 --> 00:19:59,290 I made a poor choice, so did they. And, and this is where we are. And so I, 370 00:19:59,410 --> 00:20:01,650 I tried really hard and I actually have more of a heart for, 371 00:20:01,990 --> 00:20:05,170 for people now after going through that experience that I didn't have 372 00:20:05,810 --> 00:20:06,643 previously. 373 00:20:07,290 --> 00:20:10,270 Now you had an experiment, uh, experience at one point where you, 374 00:20:10,270 --> 00:20:15,190 your cellmate was Wallace Bone. Bowman, tell me about him. Yeah. 375 00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:17,750 I did. Yeah. So as, as you know, 376 00:20:17,770 --> 00:20:20,630 but I don't know if all the listeners know you typically, when you, 377 00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:22,110 when they put you in a cell, 378 00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:26,310 it's normally with people with similar time in terms of like their sentence and 379 00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:27,590 similar crimes. 380 00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:31,350 And the reason for that is just because obviously the more time you have, 381 00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:33,790 the more heinous your crime was, the less you really have to lose. 382 00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:37,070 And so I was typically just sitting with guys who had a, you know, 383 00:20:37,220 --> 00:20:39,550 they call 'em short timers, a little five or 10 year sentence. 384 00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:41,230 And I went on a medical chain, 385 00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:45,310 I had some issues and I went on a medical chain to Galveston and I had to stop 386 00:20:45,310 --> 00:20:47,660 in transit, the bird unit in Huntsville, 387 00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:48,780 which you you're probably familiar with. 388 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,420 And they walked me in my cell and it was the very end of the run. Uh, no, no, 389 00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:55,020 nobody nearby. And I walk in, 390 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:58,660 there's this gentleman on the top bunk in his boxers cuz it's summer, it's hot. 391 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,220 And I said, you know, as you also may know, you don't ask what you're there for, 392 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,420 how much time you're doing, it's just not what you don't do it. And I said, Hey, 393 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:06,900 how's it going man? And, and he said, oh, 394 00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:08,940 I'm trying to give some of this time back to the state. 395 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,500 And so he opened the door. I said, oh, they gave you a lot of time. He said, 396 00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:14,900 yeah, three life sentences. And so immediately, 397 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,180 I'm pretty sure I know what bone's in here for. And uh, 398 00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:22,060 right away it was very scary. I was gonna just okay, survival mode again, right? 399 00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:25,460 Like, stay yourself, do your thing. Your Bon And I spent, 400 00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:27,140 I think it was nine or 10 days, 401 00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:31,420 somewhere in that range of 24 hour lockdown together, 402 00:21:31,870 --> 00:21:36,380 eight by 10. And you know, the first couple days I had my pocket Bible with me. 403 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,180 I'd read and hang out and then we'd conversate, we'd share stories and you know, 404 00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:43,860 we ended up, we had humor. We, I mean, it was a very normal person, obviously, 405 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,500 uh, or, or honestly, and had a horrible, horrible thing that he did. 406 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,740 And so long story short, I I I, 407 00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:53,260 I think I was able to encourage bone in some ways, fortunately. And, uh, 408 00:21:53,260 --> 00:21:56,820 as I left, he said, you know, Hey Papa, you know, enjoyed it, good luck, 409 00:21:56,980 --> 00:21:59,060 whatever. And then he said, I gotta tell you, uh, 410 00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:00,620 the night before they brought you in here, 411 00:22:00,980 --> 00:22:04,140 I had hung up my sheets and was gonna end my life. And, and you, 412 00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:07,540 you showed me some hope and encouragement that just blew me away. I mean, I, 413 00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:10,300 I do try to be a guy who, who is encourager and, and, 414 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:13,820 and all that no matter where I am. But the fact that I was just by chance, 415 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,020 and I don't believe in chance in a cell with bone when he needed that hope and 416 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:19,780 encouragement, um, was a really cool opportunity for me. 417 00:22:20,410 --> 00:22:22,790 But he insisted at one point that he was not violent. 418 00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:26,710 Yeah, yeah. Bone. So by the time we were a little more comfortable together, 419 00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:30,190 bone would say Puff, I'm, I'm not a, I mean he, Robert, he, he, 420 00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:34,470 he told me the details and it was, it was horrific. It really was. And, and, uh, 421 00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:38,710 he would say things like, uh, I'm not a violent man. I'm like, bone, you, you, 422 00:22:38,730 --> 00:22:43,350 you got a grim reaper tattooed on you and on your stomach and it also says rage 423 00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:46,790 across your stomach. Come on man. And he is like, no, but, you know, 424 00:22:46,890 --> 00:22:50,910 and so yeah, it was just so interesting to, and I've always been curious. 425 00:22:51,130 --> 00:22:53,910 I'm into the Id live, you know, I like the ID network, 426 00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:57,110 the shows that kinda stuff you guys do. And it's like, man, 427 00:22:57,190 --> 00:23:00,670 I never thought I'd have an opportunity for nine days to just sit here and ask 428 00:23:00,990 --> 00:23:01,910 questions and pick his brain. 429 00:23:01,930 --> 00:23:05,110 Not so much about the crime stuff cause I didn't really wanna know, but, um, 430 00:23:05,140 --> 00:23:08,670 just how he ticks, like, what's going on here? How'd you end up here? You know? 431 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:12,820 Did inmates figure out that you're a professional baseball player? 432 00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:14,340 I know there's a case that a guard did. 433 00:23:15,170 --> 00:23:18,100 Yeah, yeah. Several of them did. Um, 434 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,980 either by like a family member or, you know, they'd, you know, 435 00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:24,500 I'm pretty open guy, open honest guy. If they asked me what I did, 436 00:23:24,580 --> 00:23:28,180 I I would share it. And so they did. And, you know, I wasn't sure Robert, 437 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,260 if that was gonna be like a target on my back. Mm-hmm. like, Hey, 438 00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:35,100 this guy, you're not out here on the field. Right. I think all in all, 439 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,620 it ended up being more of, um, you know, uh, 440 00:23:39,090 --> 00:23:40,940 something of respect. And they, they, 441 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,900 I'd done something in the world in their eyes and they kind of, you know, 442 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:46,300 liked to ask about it or talk about it. And I, 443 00:23:46,420 --> 00:23:49,780 I was pretty active on the wreck yard and helped some guys with working out and 444 00:23:49,780 --> 00:23:53,060 stuff. And then to your point about with the guard, um, 445 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:55,700 it was a pretty hard guard. I remember, I can picture it right now. 446 00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,780 And I was picking up my janitor supplies. I was a janitor in prison as well. 447 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,820 And, um, he looked at me and they can't have any contact with inmates. 448 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,620 And he said, um, it was one of the hard guys too. There's some hard ones. 449 00:24:06,620 --> 00:24:10,420 And he said, you, you played for the Houston Astros? I said, oh, yes sir, I did. 450 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,140 And he reached his hand out and I looked at him like, and, and I, 451 00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,940 I kind of took back, he goes, shake it. And I shook his hand. He said, 452 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,180 I'm fing proud to know you and proud of what you did. 453 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,260 And it brought me to tears. Uh, I didn't really show him. 454 00:24:24,260 --> 00:24:25,420 Then I went back to my bunk. 455 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,060 It was the first time in a long time I felt human and I felt like he treated me 456 00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:33,460 like a human based on, even if it was based on what I did in baseball, 457 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,940 it really touched me. And I didn't, it was really surprising that I, you know, 458 00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:39,620 it had been that cold that, that something like that would touch me like that. 459 00:24:41,850 --> 00:24:44,330 So talk about the loneliness. 460 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:45,800 Yeah. 461 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,210 Yeah. Yeah. I try to, 462 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,930 it's hard for anybody that hasn't been in there and understand it, I, 463 00:24:50,010 --> 00:24:52,410 I couldn't imagine getting the door shut behind me. 464 00:24:52,790 --> 00:24:56,190 Mm. Yeah. It is, you know, it, 465 00:24:56,220 --> 00:24:58,590 it's just so stinking lonely. 466 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:02,830 The the irony is it's never quiet and you're never actually really alone, 467 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:07,710 but you're so lonely and it's so dingy and it's so dark and you're just like, 468 00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:11,950 wow. I mean that feeling. And for me, I, my me and my family are very close, 469 00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:13,910 but they're not in Texas. They're not from Texas. 470 00:25:14,210 --> 00:25:17,430 So I wasn't getting the visits on the weekends. I got a few here and there. 471 00:25:17,490 --> 00:25:21,950 You know, they fly in the phone calls are few and far between and expensive, 472 00:25:21,970 --> 00:25:23,110 but you get 'em, you know, and you, 473 00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:27,310 you cherish that 15 minutes you get until that stinking lady comes on and says, 474 00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:30,390 you have one minute remaining. And I just, you know, 475 00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:32,190 and those are the times where you're outta the world for, 476 00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:33,750 you're outta the cell for a second. You're just, 477 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:36,590 you're with your family and then you're hanging out and you turn around and 478 00:25:36,590 --> 00:25:38,750 you're like, you, I am again, just all alone. 479 00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:41,630 And it is even hard to explain for me after going through it, 480 00:25:42,010 --> 00:25:44,550 the sense of loneliness. So I just, you know what I did, I just, 481 00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:47,390 I tried to improve myself. I read things that encouraged me. 482 00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:52,190 I read my Bible along with other books. I, I prayed a lot. I, um, you know, 483 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,030 tried. I went to classes where I could and, and things of that nature. 484 00:25:56,170 --> 00:25:57,110 And that really just helped me, 485 00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:58,870 just getting a routine is what helped me through it. 486 00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:02,040 This's surprise our listeners. But I've had friends, 487 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,960 childhood and adult that went to the penitentiary. Wow. And um, 488 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:08,800 you know, one went to a, 489 00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:12,920 what you would call the Federal country Club because it was a financial crime. 490 00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:14,103 Sure. 491 00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:18,900 But he, he talked about you didn't have any freedom anymore. 492 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:21,220 You kind of talk about that, that, look, I, 493 00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:24,260 I don't have a choice about when I can read, when I can eat, 494 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,420 go to the bat nut talk about what that does. 495 00:26:28,290 --> 00:26:32,500 Yeah. That's extremely tough. That it's very demeaning, you know, and, and I, 496 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,860 I'm not gonna put a blanket statement on all, you know, guards or cos, 497 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,780 but some were great and they treated you a human being as long as you treated 498 00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:42,140 them. Like, and, and by the way, not an easy job. I mean, 499 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,940 as soon as they walk in, there's inmates yelling at 'em, screaming at 'em. Um, 500 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,500 but you know, just kind of being looked down upon not called by your name, 501 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,340 called literally just, hey inmate. Right. And then, yeah, 502 00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:56,580 just sometimes I got talked to in a way that I wasn't used to being talked to. 503 00:26:56,980 --> 00:27:00,940 I, um, you know, maybe it's cuz I played sports, you know, I got, you know, 504 00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:04,380 I got respect that way or I'm a bigger guy. I didn't mind, you know, 505 00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:06,140 fighting when I was young or whatever. 506 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:08,420 It was just like to be able to be talked to like that. 507 00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:12,860 But my sole purpose and focus was to get home to my family. So I'm not about to, 508 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,820 you know, let that get in the way. 509 00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:16,660 But there were a few times where it was really hard. 510 00:27:16,780 --> 00:27:20,460 I remember I was in the chow hall one time and I sat in the wrong seat. 511 00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:24,220 I didn't realize it, but I just sat down and they, the guy had yelled, Hey, 512 00:27:24,330 --> 00:27:26,820 move over. And I didn't know he was talking to inmate inmate. 513 00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:30,220 And I looked up that time I realized he was talking to me. So, oh me, he goes, 514 00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:34,300 yeah, you, you stupid, whatever. And I was just like, the feeling first I was, 515 00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:37,100 I was angry. I was like, I would really love to get my hands on you. 516 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,620 And then it was just hurtful. It was like, I'm just, I made a mistake. 517 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,740 I'm in here, but I'm a human being. I have family. I, you know, 518 00:27:44,740 --> 00:27:47,820 if you and I could probably get along outside of here. So it was tough. 519 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,580 It was really hard to deal with that. 520 00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:52,680 Well, you came up for parole and I'm, 521 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,880 I'm gonna presume you probably thought I got this. I don't have a record. 522 00:27:57,470 --> 00:28:01,800 I've got a lot of support from the outside writing letters, which is typical. 523 00:28:02,420 --> 00:28:04,760 And I presume one of the parole board members interviewed you. 524 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,250 They did. Yeah. There was several. I went in to the parole board, sat before, 525 00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:10,850 uh, a couple of them. Yeah. 526 00:28:11,150 --> 00:28:15,810 And did you think, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna walk, I'm gonna get out. I did. 527 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:21,250 I did. When I first was in that cell, I mentioned after the trial, I, I, 528 00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:23,570 I said, you know, I'm gonna take this as if I'm doing five years. 529 00:28:23,910 --> 00:28:25,490 And then I started talking , 530 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:28,370 the one thing about the inmates is they all know everything, right? 531 00:28:28,670 --> 00:28:31,050 And so they all told me, you know, yeah, you're gonna get, 532 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,810 when you start believing people cause you want to, you wanna hang on to that, 533 00:28:34,030 --> 00:28:36,690 you know, you've never done this. I said, okay. So I walked in, 534 00:28:36,850 --> 00:28:40,730 I think you probably know this. And all I knew is you either get parole, 535 00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:41,830 whatever that is, 536 00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:44,290 or they give you a one year set off you go see 'em in one year. 537 00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:46,450 That's all I knew. And I didn't know the system. 538 00:28:46,510 --> 00:28:49,450 And I walked in and I sat down very brief, Hey, good packet, you know, 539 00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:52,290 whatever the case may be. Um, we're gonna give you a two year set off. 540 00:28:52,790 --> 00:28:55,930 And I said, uh, I don't, what does that mean, ? He said, 541 00:28:55,930 --> 00:28:59,090 that means we'll see you again in two years. And that's where again, 542 00:28:59,310 --> 00:29:02,530 it was a kind of like a reset again. Like, okay, this, this ain't, 543 00:29:02,530 --> 00:29:05,410 this is not a gonna be a quick deal. You need to, this is your new normal. 544 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:08,610 How'd you do your time? The inmates always talk about how they do their time. 545 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,610 Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I think my, um, 546 00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:16,130 my career really helped me in terms of being a routine oriented person. 547 00:29:16,790 --> 00:29:19,610 And so I would just find a routine. I would get up in the morning, 548 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,890 have a routine in terms of my prayer, my, my Bible reading, 549 00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:28,050 reading other books that encouraged me when we were able to the rec yard or if 550 00:29:28,050 --> 00:29:31,330 we couldn't pushups, you know, doing something physical to keep my mind right. 551 00:29:31,330 --> 00:29:35,490 That's still a huge coping mechanism for me with mental health stuff. Um, 552 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:38,330 so working out when there was classes offered, you know, 553 00:29:38,330 --> 00:29:40,410 I did some cognitive intervention classes that I really loved. 554 00:29:40,850 --> 00:29:44,540 I signed up for him. I went to him as much as I could. In some cases you work, 555 00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:48,020 right, you actually have a job. So that kind of sometime goes by there. 556 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,260 But it was just being in a routine and just trying to, and then of course, 557 00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:52,500 because you don't have choices, 558 00:29:52,930 --> 00:29:56,020 that routine can be flipped at any point in time and sometimes on purpose. 559 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,580 So now you have to reset and find your new routine again at the new place. 560 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:00,680 In your book, 561 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,460 you thanked your teacher that taught that class Cognitive intervention. 562 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,660 Yes. Tell our listeners what that class is about. 563 00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:14,020 I've seen the class and so I've seen inmates in there that were career criminals 564 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,010 and they don't, they didn't have the thinking skills. 565 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:22,050 They didn't think of consequences, uh, at all. And you, 566 00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:25,010 they're literally being taught that somehow they've gotten through life and 567 00:30:25,170 --> 00:30:27,570 probably is why they're in the prison. What did it do for you? 568 00:30:27,570 --> 00:30:29,090 But tell us what happens in there. 569 00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:33,350 Yeah, so cognitive intervention is, is just like, it sounds, right? It's, 570 00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:36,910 it's reaching in and kind of intervening your thoughts. Like, 571 00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:40,910 why do we think a certain way? Why would I have, you know, 572 00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:42,790 gone down these paths? You know, 573 00:30:42,790 --> 00:30:46,870 it all starts with a thought and then you've got plenty of time to kind of let 574 00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:50,990 that be a fleeting thought or, or let it linger and take action on it. 575 00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:53,070 And so it's all those things, like the step, 576 00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:57,190 the process of you're thinking honestly. And the, 577 00:30:57,210 --> 00:31:00,390 the curriculum was great. It was stuff I hadn't heard of. I didn't know. I, 578 00:31:00,390 --> 00:31:02,510 you know, I went to high school, I signed outta high school, 579 00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:03,070 went and played pro. 580 00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:07,350 I didn't know anything about cognitive intervention and it really fascinated me. 581 00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:10,310 And then on top of that, Mr. Julie was amazing. 582 00:31:10,540 --> 00:31:13,790 Talk about being treated like a human. That was the one place I felt human. 583 00:31:13,790 --> 00:31:15,710 And I know it wasn't just me, it was all the inmates. 584 00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:19,150 And if I ever get an opportunity, I'm gonna say this cause we're your show. 585 00:31:19,150 --> 00:31:22,990 If I ever get an opportunity to thank her, I would be so blessed. I mean, 586 00:31:22,990 --> 00:31:25,830 she was a Rangers fan. She'd ask about baseball, but it was more than that. 587 00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:27,430 It was just treating everybody, 588 00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:32,070 not just me like a human being and teaching that class with grace. 589 00:31:32,330 --> 00:31:33,710 And people would ask, you know what, 590 00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:36,110 some guys are different learning faculties and, 591 00:31:36,170 --> 00:31:38,990 and she didn't treat anybody or look down on anybody. 592 00:31:39,010 --> 00:31:42,390 So it was just like a reprieve from the cells and the guards where you're 593 00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:43,590 getting treated and talked down to, 594 00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:46,990 to this encouraging older lady that just loved you, like you were her son. 595 00:31:47,570 --> 00:31:50,030 And it, it blew me away. I mean, I received that love. 596 00:31:50,170 --> 00:31:55,030 She let me take the class over and over a couple times and, um, it was amazing. 597 00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:58,470 So the class was great. It really did help me in terms of, um, you know, 598 00:31:58,470 --> 00:32:00,070 my thought process and things of that nature. 599 00:32:00,410 --> 00:32:04,870 But it was more just her encouraging positive words and smile every day that we 600 00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:05,703 really needed. 601 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:06,780 You know, 602 00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:10,180 there were a couple of things I noticed in your book that obviously that have 603 00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:13,860 came out of the experience in there and what that I think, you know, 604 00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:16,980 everybody can learn from. And one was, in life, 605 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,740 you're only responsible for your actions. 606 00:32:20,410 --> 00:32:23,860 Yeah, no, absolutely. I I would actually, I, I probably didn't write it, 607 00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:26,300 but I would, I would go a step further and say, 608 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:30,620 you're only responsible for your actions or your response to other people's 609 00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:35,020 actions, right? So, um, yeah, but I mean, more pointed to your question. I mean, 610 00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:38,900 that's really all we can control literally is, is my effort, my energy, 611 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,660 my actions every single day. 612 00:32:40,660 --> 00:32:42,940 And I'm sounding like a coach now cause I coach baseball daily. 613 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,660 But when I tell the guys, it's like, 614 00:32:44,660 --> 00:32:46,740 there's a lot going on here that's outta your control. 615 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,580 Why would we waste one moment on thinking or, or, um, you know, 616 00:32:51,580 --> 00:32:54,260 thinking about those, let's focus on the stuff we can control. 617 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,460 And so for me in there, it was, it was reading, it was journaling, 618 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,020 it was doing all these things. Um, that kept my mind off of, 619 00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:06,940 I really miss my family. There's a lot of really bad things going on around me. 620 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,540 Um, I, I can't get any peace and quiet, you know, 621 00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:11,860 I'm trying to go sleep and dominoes are slamming and I want to go crazy, 622 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,700 but I can't because that's just gonna make things worse. . 623 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,420 And so just all those things of, of, okay, what can I control? 624 00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:19,980 What's right in front of me? And that's it. 625 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,540 You know, I know personally, and I've got friends this way too, 626 00:33:22,540 --> 00:33:25,500 that I try to practice what I would describe as, uh, 627 00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:31,670 stoicism from the Romans is that I can only control my 628 00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:36,340 response, how I respond. And it sounds like that's what you did too. 629 00:33:36,340 --> 00:33:40,500 The other thing that was interesting that I thought everybody really needs to 630 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:42,260 learn, especially young men, 631 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,240 is that our actions in this life have consequences. 632 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:52,020 Absolutely. Every single one of them. And, and here's the thing too, 633 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,460 not just consequences for us. I mean, obviously yeah, 634 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,900 bad choice at some point's gonna catch up with you. 635 00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:02,420 You're gonna have a negative consequence also make great choices. 636 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,780 And at some point you're probably gonna have some very positive consequence or 637 00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:09,380 results, I should say, rather than consequences. But not only that, 638 00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:10,213 what I really learned, Robert, 639 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,020 is I love a book by Rick Warren who wrote My Forward Purpose-Driven Life. 640 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,850 The very first sentence says, it's not about you. And, 641 00:34:18,870 --> 00:34:21,530 and I know for me it was all about me, all about my career, 642 00:34:21,590 --> 00:34:23,090 all about everything. You know, all about me. 643 00:34:23,710 --> 00:34:27,850 And my choices don't just affect me. They affected my whole family. 644 00:34:28,050 --> 00:34:30,730 I had chill that they, their dad went away to prison. 645 00:34:30,930 --> 00:34:35,130 I had a mom and dad that were devastated and then, and then, you know, 646 00:34:35,350 --> 00:34:39,290 it just balloons out from there. And so yes, choices, 647 00:34:39,590 --> 00:34:43,010 our choices have consequences. But more than that, if it was just like, Hey, 648 00:34:43,010 --> 00:34:45,370 it's just me. I can do whatever I want with my life, I don't care. 649 00:34:45,630 --> 00:34:46,350 That's not that. 650 00:34:46,350 --> 00:34:49,450 It affects everybody around you who loves you and cares about you. 651 00:34:51,740 --> 00:34:56,670 Do you think we're living in a time though where in society many people are 652 00:34:56,670 --> 00:35:00,850 like, oh, it's all about me? Yes. And that's part of the problem today. 653 00:35:01,530 --> 00:35:05,010 I do, I absolutely think that, and I absolutely think daily. 654 00:35:05,170 --> 00:35:07,050 I have to remind myself it's not all about me. 655 00:35:07,450 --> 00:35:11,250 I think human nature is right as we're babies. It's like me, me, me, right? 656 00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:12,770 And yeah, 657 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:17,450 not a day goes by where I'm not like offended by something or something happened 658 00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:20,210 and I'm like in a little fun. I dunno, maybe a day does go by, 659 00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:22,250 but often I have to remind myself not about you. 660 00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:23,970 You're taking this all personally. 661 00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:28,570 So tell us what you do today. You coach youth, baseball, young men. 662 00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:30,970 Do you coach any women or just men? I. 663 00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:34,290 Do not. We had a couple softball teams at one point, just cuz um, 664 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,170 some friends started one. But for me, 665 00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:40,420 we have a nonprofit baseball program here in Austin, Texas called, uh, 666 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,300 g p s Legend. So ages seven through college. Yeah. On a daily basis, 667 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,220 I'm either helping kids with recruiting with colleges, or you know, 668 00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:50,300 literally coaching them during the week at practice, 669 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,780 we go to tournaments on the weekends and it depends on the age group, 670 00:35:53,780 --> 00:35:58,260 but I like to stick with the 17 U group cuz they're knocking on the door to a 671 00:35:58,260 --> 00:36:00,260 college scholarship or we've had a few drafted. 672 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,940 And so I kind of stick there and kind of walk them through that process, 673 00:36:04,090 --> 00:36:08,940 them and their families. Um, obviously I'm, I'm, you know, teaching baseball, 674 00:36:09,180 --> 00:36:12,420 coaching baseball, but also big on the mental side, big on their choices, 675 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,300 big on paying attention to little details that can affect them in their future. 676 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,180 And they know you went to prison? 677 00:36:19,810 --> 00:36:20,820 They do. Yes. 678 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,740 And what do you try to convey to them? The, the big life lesson for them? 679 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:27,660 It such a formative years. 680 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:32,310 Yeah. Think the, the big one and there's, there's, there's several, you know, 681 00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:36,510 within that, but the big one is just like, be aware of your, 682 00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:40,150 of your thoughts. Again, going back to cognitive intervention, right? It's like, 683 00:36:40,610 --> 00:36:42,070 be aware of what you let in, 684 00:36:42,210 --> 00:36:45,870 in your thought process because those thoughts become things. And if, 685 00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:50,430 if you're constantly letting negativity in and letting you know things in, 686 00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:54,710 it's gonna show up in your life. It's gonna show up in your actions. And we, 687 00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:58,150 there's just no way around that. You know, whatever you plant, whatever, 688 00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:59,430 that's what you're gonna sell, right? 689 00:36:59,540 --> 00:37:02,150 It's like you can't plant for oranges and get an apple. It's not gonna happen. 690 00:37:02,250 --> 00:37:06,350 So guys, be really aware of your thoughts. Um, positivity is a big thing for me. 691 00:37:06,350 --> 00:37:10,190 They get down on themselves, they're facing a lot of tough things and it's like, 692 00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:11,950 okay, well let's focus on what we're grateful for. 693 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,270 Let's focus on what is going good for you and build off that. So a lot, 694 00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:19,430 a lot of those little lessons that, you know, some of 'em I learned in prison, 695 00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:22,230 some of 'em I learned in my career. Um, you know, 696 00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:23,990 and I'm still learning all the time. But yeah, a lot, 697 00:37:24,030 --> 00:37:26,510 a lot of that is just like, be aware of your choices. It, 698 00:37:26,650 --> 00:37:27,790 it really can affect your. 699 00:37:29,060 --> 00:37:30,590 Life. After he got out of prison, 700 00:37:30,750 --> 00:37:35,070 puffer's first real job was to take out the trash, clean the aisles, 701 00:37:35,090 --> 00:37:39,710 and help maintain the professional baseball field with a Round Rock express. 702 00:37:40,610 --> 00:37:44,470 The minor league teams owner, Reed Ryan, the son of Hall of Fame, 703 00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:48,350 legend Nolan Ryan, hired Puffer, now puffer coaches, 704 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,310 youth and high school baseball players on how to play college and pro ball at 705 00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:58,150 GPS Legends located in central Texas near Round Rock in Georgetown. 706 00:37:58,790 --> 00:38:03,390 I placed a link to it in the show notes. In closing, 707 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:06,270 here's my reporters recap and reflections. 708 00:38:07,370 --> 00:38:09,790 No matter what walk of life they came from, 709 00:38:10,420 --> 00:38:14,830 most of the convicted felons that I've interviewed did not comprehend that their 710 00:38:14,830 --> 00:38:18,070 actions had consequences to quote puffer. 711 00:38:18,410 --> 00:38:22,070 The longer we try to ignore or run from those consequences, 712 00:38:22,690 --> 00:38:25,790 the more they will grow like a cancer that starts small, 713 00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:29,750 but eventually takes over the whole body. Ignore it. 714 00:38:31,410 --> 00:38:35,460 You've been listening to the True Crime Reporter podcast. Stay true, 715 00:38:35,850 --> 00:38:40,820 stay safe, and stay tuned for more stories from inside the crime scene too. 716 00:38:41,610 --> 00:38:43,660 This is Robert Riggs reporting.