This podcast is brought to you by the award-winning prop firm, Fidel Crest.
Hey, uh, show him your last paycheck. And I was like, cool. Like,
what is it he showed me and it was 40 grand. And I was like, you made 40 grand,
and, and how long did that take you? He's like,
this was my last week's paycheck. Oh, right. And he was my age, you know? Right.
Really. And I was dead broke at the time. I was just extremely,
extremely broke. We lived in a trailer home and, uh, you know,
my dad got laid off and, you know, I didn't really have gas money,
so I had to use, uh, like whatever was left in my account.
I think it was a couple hundred bucks to pay for the, uh,
the test to become a broker.
When I was taking those small accounts from like 500 to 15 k,
I was realizing that the, the amount of money wasn't making me happy.
It wasn't like satisfying because I was making so much on my past career,
you know, uh, you know, I was used to like a $20,000 day consistently.
So making that, I was like, oh, I can make more.
I can make way more if I just buy more expensive contracts. Hold it,
see what happens. And, you know, maybe I could take the seven K to 40 K. If you.
Had to sort of do a comparison between Smart Money and this,
what you're doing now, what's.
The difference? So Smart Money, uh,
so you'll hear this a lot from Smart Money Guys, right? Uh,
no Smart Money Guy really is getting above like a 50% win rate.
Most of the time it's gonna be around 40 to 30%, right?
Because they're sacrificing the win rate for the higher R, right?
So when I was trading Smart Money, you know, the R could be one to 10,
one to 15, one to 20, uh, but the win rate was like 30, 35.
Sometimes on a bad month it'd be like 20, you know,
but your r would make up for those losses.
Episode 211, we got Evan Christopher on the show today. Now,
this is not just a fantastic trading story, but a fantastic life story as well.
So he was earning 20 K a day before he even started trading. Uh,
then he turned to Smart Money Concepts. Now he's doing another style.
And Hint starts with m You're gonna find all that out in the show.
So stay tuned. Now,
last week I did mention that I was gonna jump on and do a live stream.
I did it last Friday night, my time, London session.
We ran it for about an hour. Look, three trades,
if you wanna find it how it went.
Go and check it out on the Trading Night YouTube channel.
Probably not gonna be around forever. So now is the chance to jump on there.
I'm gonna probably jump on now and again,
and we're gonna try and pass Affiliate Crest Funding Challenge,
so stay tuned for that. Other things,
last week we ran the Robot Builders Club bootcamp,
where we created a bot called the Lazy River Strategy.
This bot is gonna be available for anyone that joins the Robot Builders Club
this January or February, 2023.
And you guys will get access to the recordings that we did in the bootcamp and
the download of that Lazy River strategy.
Now to get it mentioned Lazy River in an email to me when you join. Alright,
folks, enough from me. Let's hear from my sponsor, Fidel Crest.
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Rightio folks. Here we are. We've got Evan Christopher here on the show. Uh,
Evan is the author of, uh, the Market Makers Matrix,
uh, book, which has been around for a while, and there's, um,
some great reviews on it, and it really is a game changer for a lot of people.
We've had past guest Lewis Kelly actually recommend that book for people to
read. So I dunno if some of you listeners or watches have read that.
So welcome to the show, Evan.
How's it going? How's everybody?
Uh, look, I mean, I'm, I I'm,
I'm look itching to get your story here because I know you've been trading for
16 years, uh, from when you first started. So I want to hear, um,
all, all that journey along the way and how you managed to break it, uh,
down to the point where you were able to create a book,
which is now helping other traders.
So do you wanna start off with all the way back to the age of 16?
Yeah.
So I was actually in school and I would read the paper every day.
Uh, the stock part of it, you know, I didn't know what I was looking at.
I was like, okay, what is this all about?
And I would study the paper every single day.
I would just go down to the liquor store to get the newspaper,
and I would just study the, uh, the prices. I didn't know what they meant.
I didn't know anything, and I would get in trouble, you know, they were like,
oh, you're trying to do, you become a stockbroker, this and that. And then, uh,
you know, I had to stop doing that. But then I was just really interested, um,
in the markets at that point that I went on to apply for a series three license
so that I could trade commodities. Um, in that,
when I walked into that firm, um, the guy pitched me, he was like,
Hey, you know, here's a book. And it was like the size of a bible,
and it was about the, uh, rules and regulations.
And then the other part was about the math side of it. And he's like,
you got two weeks to study this, and then you can become a broker. I was like,
sick, you know, I'll do it. And then he called in this,
this kid who was my age at the time. At that point, it had been two years,
and I had done a bunch of trading with my dad. Uh, like in options,
we did all these like option genetics. I don't know if you've heard of option?
Oh, yeah. Way back in the day I did Year Option Genetics. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So we were doing option genetics together. We went to a couple of the, uh,
seminars, and then my dad opened up a brokerage account,
and I wasn't old enough at the time, so, you know, I was trading with my dad.
Um, and that just kept sparking my interest in the markets that eventually,
yeah, when I applied at the, uh, the brokers, uh, at the firm, uh,
gave me two weeks. And then he invited some kid in there and he's like, Hey, uh,
show him your last paycheck. And I was like, cool. Like,
what is it He showed me and it was 40 grand. And I was like,
you made 40 grand and, and how long did that take you? He's like,
this was my last week's paycheck. Right? And he was my age,
you know? Right. Really. And I was dead broke at the time.
I was just extremely, extremely broken. Uh,
we lived in a trailer home and, uh, you know,
my dad got laid off and, you know, I didn't really have gas money,
so I had to use, uh, like whatever was left in my account.
I think it was a couple hundred bucks to pay for the, uh,
the test to become a broker.
And then I studied every single day,
and I took the tests and I passed him now,
but then I failed the rules and regulations,
and then I went back to the broker that tried to hire me, and he is like,
he said, you really studied in two weeks. I was like, yeah, I did. He's like,
oh, he's like, we were just saying that. He's like, we just wanted you to study.
He's like, you have money? And I was like, well, shit, now I can't,
now I can't even, you know, pay for another test. So after that,
I went on to get a job, and then, uh, like during, you know,
the mortgage era where everybody was making money in mortgages, and,
you know, I, you know, learned how to do sales and whatnot,
and then that job just wasn't working out.
And so I went online to figure out how to make money, you know,
how can I make money online?
And eventually that led me into this long career of affiliate marketing,
where I ended up becoming one of the biggest affiliates, um, making,
I was making millions of dollars a year. And, uh, you know,
I did it from nothing. Um, and that's what I had done for about 10,
11 years after. And then Covid happened.
Um, and, and before that I was still dabbling in trading. I was still,
I was actually into, uh, penny stocks a lot at that time. But, uh, af you know,
I was,
I was already making so much money that I didn't really care to find a different
type of skillset. Um, I had already mastered one. So, uh,
right around Covid time, like I had lost all the money.
I made just millions of dollars just out the window, just lost within a short,
uh, amount of time, like maybe three or four years. Uh, that was due to just me,
you know, being reckless young, you know, buying,
I bought a couple nightclubs and then a restaurant that just completely failed.
And then, uh, you know, I did some software ventures. You know,
I think I lost half a million dollars in,
in some sort of software venture that I was doing.
And that was more of like a ego thing. Like I just,
I really wanted this software. It was a,
it was a traffic network where I was brokering and selling traffic,
which was doing good. Uh, but then I wanted to build software for it,
and I kind of bit off more than I could chew. And I came, I guess, you know,
that poker turn pop committed,
where I was so invested into it that I couldn't back out at that point.
So I lost a ton of money doing that. Uh, basically lost my company,
um, and then restarted from the ground up. And my last like,
winning campaign in, in that way we call 'em campaigns. Uh,
we made, you know, around a hundred thousand dollars on that. And at that point,
COVID had happened and I said, okay, well's happening.
That means advertising prices are gonna go way up.
I'm not gonna be able to afford this, you know, to,
to continue this denture anymore. I have to find a different skillset. Um,
so I was sitting in one of my hotels at the time. Uh, I was just,
I was just having fun, you know, just going the hotel, the hotel,
different cities. And I was sitting in the hotel, COVID happened,
and I found this guy, uh,
his name is Ty Cody, shout out to Tyco, uh, and he's an option straighter.
And, you know, he was selling this course for 1500 bucks. So I was like,
you know what? Screw, I'm gonna buy this and see what I can do with this. So,
you know, I bought his course and it was going through all the basic stuff,
support, resistance, chemist, good patterns, all that, uh, you know,
heavily young Mac d and, you know, a bunch of different indicators.
And you know, a lot of people say like, indicators support resistance.
They don't work, they do work,
and you just have a different lens that you're looking at the market through.
Um, but at that time, I was actually consistent, you know, um, after learning,
like after when he had taught me, uh, you know,
I was growing these small accounts on the options market too. You know,
I was growing these small accounts like from 500 to 15 K in like a week. Uh,
you know, and I did that multiple times.
But then there was this lack of consistency.
There was just like these small accounts that would just go to these huge
numbers, but then my psychology was all messed up so outta nowhere,
I would just, you know, sometimes I would, I think now, like,
what was I thinking? Cause I would buy like a $7,000 contract for no reason.
Like, oh, I'm just gonna buy this Tesla, $7,000 contract,
weekly expiration and see what happens. You know, it became like this gamble.
And then I realized, um,
when I was taking those small accounts from like 500 to 15 K,
uh, I was realizing that the, the amount of money wasn't making me happy.
It wasn't like satisfying because I was making so much on my past,
uh, career, you know, uh, you know,
I was used to like a $20,000 day consistently. So making that, I was like, oh,
I can make more. I can make way more if I just buy more expensive contracts,
hold it, see what happens. And, you know,
maybe I could take the seven K to 40 K.
So that mindset really was detrimental to like my early trading,
um, career because, you know,
I was just always aiming for this huge home runs all the time. Like,
it just was the biggest lesson that it, you know, that I had to learn is to,
Hey, this isn't like a sprint. This is a journey, and you gotta take your time,
um, and,
and throw the account and develop the skillset to be able to be consistent,
because yeah, you, you're able to, like, you know,
a lot of people can take a small account and flip it,
but that's over a long period of time, it's not sustainable. You know,
especially if the risk management goes out of the window,
they have their trade plan. If they're not journaling,
if they're not tracking the statistics,
it's just not gonna end up panning out over a long period of time. So, yeah.
So from there, um, from learning, you know, from the options market,
I learned, uh, a bit about a different way of risk management,
uh, which was, so there was a guy,
and he's on YouTube, you can check him out. Uh, his name's 13 market Moves.
I dunno if you heard of him. Nice. Uh, 13 market Moves. And, you know,
I watched one of his videos,
but he took 4,000 into 400,000 in three days in the options market.
And I was really impressed, you know,
but what what kind of stood out to me was like, why does he, you know,
he just took 4,000 to 400,000. Why didn't he leave that money in his account?
Like, why didn't he leave? At least leave like a big chunk? And, you know,
people would ask him like, Hey, why, why? Every time you grow an account,
you start with like a thousand, 2000, you know, or 4,000.
He never would deposit like 50 grand, a hundred grand into his account,
but he would make, you know,
a couple hundred grand and pull it out and then just put back four.
So what he would do is he would wait for the market to align for a perfect
trade, and he would use that 4,000. So let's say took 4,000 to 10.
And during that week, because he had a, he had a really good,
he was a very good fundamental, uh, he's really good on fundamentals.
He knows his fundamentals. So he can prepare for, you know,
let's say a month in advance of when to use that 4,000 or 5,000
to grow to those exponential nu numbers, right? Money.
He pulls it out and then deposits a little bit back in, you know,
so I kind of took that type of, uh, risk management approach.
So I'll deposit some money in there, and then I'll grow it to a number,
and then I'll pull it out. Um, so that's kinda the way I risk.
And it also allows me to risk a 50 percentage.
So let's say I have a bigger bank bankroll. Um,
I'll take a piece of that bankroll,
but then I'll be able to risk by the 10% of that bankroll. Um,
but anyways, from, from that part of it, you know, from the options part,
I switched, uh, because like I said, that,
that point of consistency just wasn't there. And I was just like, all right,
you know, I keep blowing these, uh, these option accounts.
And I think I lost around $60,000 in like, maybe my first year.
Um, so I, I just started studying on YouTube, and then I came across I c t,
um, I came across one of his videos, um, randomly.
It was just like a random video. I never studied the four X market.
I actually thought it was a scam. I was like, there, you know, what is this?
The MT four looks like a scam. These brokers look like a scam.
I didn't understand what a PIP was. I started researching on Baby Pips,
and then I came across an I C T video. And then, you know, he,
he pinpointed like a spot in the market, and it just, it reacted from there.
I was like, that's pretty impressive. You know, like, what is that?
And then he said, this is a, this is a fair value gap. So I was like, okay,
like, what is a fair value gap? So I started looking into it. I was like, wow,
that's, that's pretty impressive. And it makes sense, you know,
this actually makes a, a ton of sense.
And then it wasn't until I actually paid to
take a mentorship with a guy named AVEs from a K F X,
shout out to a,
that guy is probably one of the best traders I've ever seen.
And, you know, he was not really studying I C T,
but the concepts that he was practicing were essentially close enough.
It was more supply and demand, and, um, you know,
they were still using their value gaps and stuff like that. Um,
and he had this mentorship, and it really, you know,
it really affected my trade. Like,
learning from somebody actually helped me a lot and learning from him, you know,
he was a great teacher. He was very, like, the way he would explain things.
And he has a YouTube channel, uh, AK fx, uh, that you guys can check out.
It's all pretty stuck. Um, you know,
and the way he explained things made it really very simple to understand.
And then maybe, uh, about a year later, you know, he,
he started trading Bold before he used to trade the Euro. And, uh,
that was about it. He never really traded anything else. It was just Euro. And,
uh, he started trading gold. But then he started doing this, this other thing,
you know, which was support and resistance. And then I was kind of shocked.
I was like, wait, what? I thought support and resistance is like kind of the,
the retail side of things, you know? I was like, that doesn't make sense to me.
And he started posting these,
these charts with his entries where he was swinging his trades
for weeks, but just catching every single swing point up and down.
And I was like, I gotta know how to do that. You know,
because I was naturally scalping.
I was naturally just scalping the market in and out, you know? And,
you know, that was my style. I was just a scouter,
but I wanted to under, it was just like a puzzle to me. I was like,
why can't I hold these traits? They always come back. I can scout great,
but I can't hold these traits.
And sometimes I don't want to be on the charts all day. You know,
when I'm scalping, it's, instead of a, like a one hour, two hour day, it's just,
I'm trading the entire session,
and sometimes I'm not even catching a trade because my setup's not there.
And when Ave was posting his swings, I was like, okay, support and resistance.
You know, that's weird. So I started going back to it,
try looking at sport and resistance. And, um, and then, you know,
I asked him about it. He's like, he's like, Hey, bro, it's not,
it's not YouTube sport and resistance. It's, it's a different thing.
And I was like, well, what is these? Like Malaysian snr? I was like,
Malaysian snr. So Malaysians met these guys,
they can trade like I've never seen before. Um,
these Malaysian traders are honestly probably some of the best traders that I've
seen. And what they developed,
which is basically a, it's called advanced, s n r or Technic, s n r,
is a completely different view of s n R strategies. It's not just, uh,
sport and resistance zones. It's actually very, very accurate. And the way,
uh,
they approach the market makes so much more sense than anything I
did with smart Money, right? So when I was trading smart money, that made sense.
But then there was that, that issue of holding my trades through, you know,
um, and, and understanding like the direction,
like the overall main direction of a move, right?
Because you have multiple timeframes. You have H one, H four, daily, weekly,
monthly, and they're all, sometimes they're aligned in the direction,
and sometimes they're going in opposite directions. So you can get really lost,
especially when you start dialing down to the lower timeframes,
like in 15 and five and one. Um, you know, and so to me,
I was like, okay, I can trade M one and then five, and then 15 fairly instantly.
I can trade those and, and make, uh, you know,
scouts co a couple scouts a day and, you know, be done.
But I wanna learn how to hold and swing my trade so I don't have to be on the
charts.
So that's where my journey started into this Malaysian sn r which is very
hard to, it's very hard to learn because you have the language barrier,
you know? So it, it was, it was really difficult.
So I kept seeking out mentors for, you know, the,
the whole advanced sn r and I probably went through about
10 and 11 of them, uh,
until I found one that was really, you know, like could,
could speak English very well, and, you know, show me the right path,
because some of 'em, you know, they, they would teach you,
but it just didn't make sense.
Or some of it would just give you a little piece and you just couldn't really
like, put it together until you have like a real solid mentor. Um, yeah.
And that mentor completely changed my trading,
and it just opened my view of the markets into just a completely,
completely different perspective. There's nothing like I ever seen before,
had nothing to do with smart money. There was no,
I didn't have to worry about liquidity. I didn't have to, uh, you know,
do the classic big, uh, stock pump break, the market structure,
return to origin. I didn't have to do that.
I didn't have to pay attention to cycles.
I didn't have to pay attention to timing. Um, so to me, it just,
it kind of freed me up from mental capital, right?
Because when trading smart money, you have to,
you have a lot of things that you have to, um,
reference before even entering the trade, you know what I mean? I have to,
I have to make sure that, you know, I came out of a higher timeframe,
supplier demands zone or order block, whatever you want call it.
I have to make sure that there was a liquidity run.
I have to make sure that there was a fair value gap that price can come into.
But then even if it does come into a fair value, gap gap,
does it come into consequent encroachment or does it come to the high end of
the, uh, supplies and on border block? You know?
So there was certain things that there was just, I was missing a lot of trades,
right? So when I was trading smart money,
even though I had the patience to wait for the trade to consum me,
there was times where I would just wait four or five hours and the treatment
never come, but we just run, you know, I'm like, dang,
like how I keep missing the trade. And sometimes I miss trade because, uh,
a lot of smart money traders, I, I don't know, uh,
from the ones you've talked to or whatnot, but, you know, uh,
a lot of 'em use M one. We use M one a lot in, uh, smc M one and five.
And when you're using M one, you're always trying to get these three to like,
less than 10 pip stops, right? Like most time 5, 3, 3 pips.
And then you also have to factor the spread,
but then you are also missing some of those traits. Like,
because you're on such a low timeframe,
you're missing a lot of the opportunities, right? Meanwhile, guys like me,
we're trading, the lowest timeframe I go to now is H one. That's it.
And that's even rare. I'm usually on H four, so I'm not missing the trades,
you know, and I'm still getting sniper entries. I'm still getting very,
very low drawdown, still getting very low, uh, stop losses, right? Uh,
typical stop loss for me, it's under 15 pips, right?
Unless I'm trading in US 30, and depending on the market volatility of us 30,
you know, that can range anywhere from 15 to 30. So, you know,
I'm still still getting the same type of entries and,
and it's almost like the same analysis, right?
But without having to do all the other work, like,
I don't have to pay attention to all the other factors that go into smart Money
concepts. Now, I'm not saying that smart money concepts don't work.
They absolutely work. You know,
and I still view the markets from that perspective sometimes because my,
after all those months and sweat equity of
hours into those, you know, sessions, like, that's just ingrained in my brain.
So I still view the markets in that way sometimes, but, uh, the way I trade now,
it's just completely different than I had ever expected it to be. .
And, and if you had to break down the, the, I suppose,
the stats around when you were doing smart money versus what you're doing now
with this advanced s and r kind of stuff, what would, what would they look like?
I'm sorry, say that again?
If you broke down the stats, so like, for example, win rates, risk rewards,
frequency of trades.
If you had to sort of do a comparison between smart money and this,
what you're doing now, what's the difference?
So, smart money, uh, so you'll hear this a lot from smart money guys, right? Uh,
no smart money guy really is getting above like a 50% win rate.
Most of the time it's gonna be around 40 to 30%, right?
Because there sacrificing the win rate for the higher R, right?
So when I was trading smart money, uh, you know,
the R could be one to 10, one to 15, one to 20, uh,
but the win rate was like 30, 35.
Sometimes on a bad month it'd be like 20, you know,
but your R would make up for those losses. Um,
and then when you're scalping, so scalping is a little different. Scalping,
you're not really, at least the way I was scalping, um,
my win rate was around 80, like 80 to 85% win rate,
but my RR was like 0.5 to one, right?
So it wasn't a big RR when you were scalping, but it was, you were taking huge,
massive lots.
Like I would take like a five or 10 lot on US 30
and just fold it per few seconds, you know, and be like, maybe a minute,
but you would make, you know, grant two grand off of that. But if you,
if you let that SL get hit, like you're in for a big, you know, drawdown. Um,
so your win rate had to be really high on those type of trades. But, um, when,
you know, if I was trading something like Euro or G G P J P Y,
our, our, you know, it,
it really depends because sometimes a trade could go like
for a one to 20, but then your psychology,
if you're not ready for that one to 20, your psychology starts kicking in,
where you start partially out too soon and you're not even realizing you're on a
one minute chart, buddy. You know, like you,
you got a long way to go before you're exiting this trade. So it could,
it could potentially turn into a 1 51 to 60, but you,
you exited so early cuz your psychology isn't there to hold a one to 20 trading
in, in a full position.
Usually you're gonna be taking partials out like a one to five. Uh,
if you're really, like,
I would say a one to 10 is still kind of sketchy to take a, uh,
a partial app or sketchy, it's kind of, uh, early to pick a partial app,
especially on M one. Um, but, you know, most, most guys are,
are taking partials at one to three and then letting the rest of their position
win. So you're not even really getting a true RR of what,
what most people should, most people are, oh, look at this straight one to 20.
But you took partials at one to three, one to seven, one to 10, one to 15.
You basically ended up with like a one to four, you know, in total.
Uh, but for me, with the, uh, Malaysian stuff,
my typical RRR is about one to five. So for me, um,
I swing, I intra swing,
so I won't hold the position for a whole week unless it's
on a Friday, unless I took a position on a Friday,
then I'll probably hold it till the next week.
But typically I'm closing all my positions within the week, uh,
just to avoid any, you know, huge, uh, gaps in the market, you know,
outta nowhere. Uh, like if something gaps in my sl,
which has happened in the past, where something gaps in my l um,
so I usually close everything by the end of the week.
Typical win rate is probably around 60, 65.
And then, yeah, RR is one to five.
But the thing is with rr it's a little,
because I hedge as well, so I'm in sales and I'm in buys.
So if I'm in a cell and a buy, and if, if you looked at my Instagram,
like on my stories, you'll see that I'll have multiple positions. I'll have,
you know.
Yeah, just see one where a stop loss was on either side. And I'm like,
hang on a sec, how does that work? ?
So that was obviously answers that question.
Right? Right. I'll have like four entries, I'll catch a low,
I'll catch another low, maybe I'll sell a high and then take a buy in between.
And at that point, that's what, you know, trapping market. Now it does.
I'm not at the will of them anymore. I just let the trade run hour,
however it wants to go. Um, so if it wants to go up,
it'll just stop me off break even.
But I have a position below if it wants to go, you know, down,
then it'll stop me out of my,
my position and I'll have my cell position at the top of. So, you know, for me,
that's, uh, and not only that, but I'm always keeping something going. So like,
let's say I hit my one to five rr I'll take, you know,
let's say 50% off the table, but I'll let the rest run indefinitely. You know?
So let's say I take a, like, let's say I have a sell, it goes one to five,
I take 50% off, and then I have a buy below and it takes the buyout.
Like let's say I have a buy limit below and it takes it out, it hits my sl.
That position that I had at the top that's running one to five is now making up
for that loss that I had at the bottom that I took. Right?
And then I'll just keep holding that tray.
So I'm always having something running to per,
to protect my account from any major losses. It kind of just gives me a buffer,
you know? And then I basically, you know, like I'll know when,
uh, there's, there's a point where you know, okay, this is a zone,
or not a zone,
but this is an area that I know I'm gonna get an explosive move from that I can
hold for a longer period of time, right?
Because there are moves in the market that are intraday moves that aren't gonna
last, but there's still money on the table that you're gonna leave out.
But there's moves that are also, okay,
this move is probably gonna have a high probability of lasting for a week or two
weeks. I should probably put more size on this one.
I have my hedge position at top just in case anything goes wrong and I can hold
this trade.
This is a trade that I know I can hold based on the way I trade the technic
that I'm trading, right? So there's a,
there's times where the market aligns where you can take a bigger trade with
bigger size and hold it longer. And when those happen,
um, those are,
those are kind of like what makeup for any type of loss that you're gonna take,
uh, along the way, right? Like, it's long. We call it the journey.
Like especially when you're trading goal, you call it writing when a dragon,
so especially when you're writing the dragon, you know, price is gonna,
there's gonna be a point of no return where it just price is never gonna come
back to that for a very, very, very long time.
And you're gonna have sell opportunities.
There's no reason for me not to take sell opportunities, especially, um,
you know, the market isn't something that you can predict a hundred percent.
So even though that area could tell me this is a,
a point of a long term bond and I still need to take that cell,
I still have that set up and there's still an indication of selling that's going
to happen. I still want to take that cell, make some money on it,
and still hold a piece of that position in case I was wrong about my initial
analysis. Right? So for me, uh,
it's a lot about the market flow, how, how it's moving,
the tendencies that it has to, when I say tendencies,
I mean how it ticks up and down, right? Like how it creates its structure.
Every pair has its own characteristics, especially gold. Gold to me is very,
very forgiving. Like it if all the structure very well, uh, for,
for my strategy, right? And for somebody else, it could,
you could not even see structure on it. You'd be like,
I don't see any structure on gold. Gold is risky, it's too,
it's too volatile or whatever, you know,
the issue is with their specific trading strategy. But for me,
in the strategy that I trade, gold is perfect. It's almost, it's,
there's no flaw in, you know, gold is,
is very forgiving and you know,
that tendency that it has to go up and down,
it can also have that moment where you are wrong in your analysis and it edition
drop,
it'll just drop and just beat all the expectations that you have in your head.
But I still caught the trade because I'm not,
I I'm certain in the uncertainty mm-hmm.
Of okay. Now, now do, did you, with this, uh,
hedging approach, I mean, first of all, how did you come up with it?
I didn't. It's just, um, it's, it's how when you learn the, you know,
the Malaysian style of trading, they all do this. They all,
they all kept, like,
like you'll see like MyCharts aren't that crazy at all compared to
some of 'em. But they have just position, like in months,
like months back, they'll have positions that they're holding from the top.
They have the top of gold right now, top of gold alt swing points,
and they're just stacking in every single position.
And then they're also buying in between points because I'll,
I'll go over it when we go over the truck stuff. Yeah.
So, so it's, it's still, it's, it's not necessarily I suppose a,
an uneducated hedge. It is a hedge based on this is just another entry,
but it may be not as long-term entry as the, as the first one. Yeah, right.
Exactly.
So, yeah. You know, and it's,
it's cool because it's no longer like, when,
when you really get into this style of training, it's more like making an art.
You're kind of like,
these are the trades that I put on and I caught every swing point.
Look at the weekly chart. Like you have every point, every daily point.
And it's, it's cool, you know, like it, a lot of the, uh,
there's some essence of guys that can do it, that can do that type of thing. Uh,
I've seen a couple guys, uh, but most of the time, you know,
they're on M one and 15, uh, you know, and they'll take multiple entries,
they'll stack in positions. But it's,
it's a little different when you're traded in Malaysian style. It's,
it's a lot more longer term bolts you're holding
hours or daily, daily positions like.
And what, what about like the sort of the frequency of trades versus the other,
the other, uh, smart money scalping and what you're doing now? What,
how does that look?
Uh, you mean how many trades I take a day?
A day or a week? Yeah, something like that.
So sometimes, like with my, with my students,
like they've seen me trade from like London to London, you know,
where I've just taken the whole intra day, like every single move,
ping ponging back and forth the whole session, that's when I get bored,
you know, and I'm just like, all right, let's just put on some trades.
But typically I'm taking one or two trades a day tops, one to two.
Uh, if I'm, if I'm bored. And I feel like really trading,
because a lot of people miss, see, a lot of people think that trading,
like doing the active trading is what's making you money,
but that's not what it is. It's most of the time you're,
you're patience is what's paying you, you know,
most of the time doing trading isn't what's gonna make you money. You know,
you doing analysis isn't making you money. It's new.
Being patient for the price to come to you.
And then understanding how to execute that, uh,
is what's gonna make you money not be active. Let me take a trade.
Lemme take a trade, lemme take a trade all day long. Yeah. Uh, that's not,
that's not what is gonna, you know, make you a consistent long-term, uh,
successful trader, right? You have to,
you have to really understand your strategy. If you understand your strategy,
yeah, you can, you can spot an entry or a setup,
but then you also have to know when that setup is going to possibly
hit. You know, your SL when you're not safe in the trade anymore,
when the trade is probably like overdue now, the trades,
you should have taken profits already, you know, when the,
the point of it switching direction is gonna be. So those, those factors,
uh, you know, you could trade all day, I guess. But for me it, it's,
it's not about that.
Yeah.
Right. When I was first starting out, it was just trade all day.
Just as many trades as I can get in, you know, and that,
that's obviously doesn't work. That's over trading, you know?
So I, yeah, I don't,
I don't try to take more than one or two trades a day. Okay. Um, and if I do,
it's just cuz I'm bored and I just wanna just do some impressive.
Yeah. What, what about, um, what about like,
so you talked about back in the day when you were doing the affiliate stuff,
you were making 20 grand a day.
Have you found that you're now able to sort of eclipse that or get to a level
that you're now going? No. Is it, have you changed your mindset around that?
That kind of thing?
No, I haven't reached that level yet.
I haven't reached a 20 grand every single day thing.
It's a different business model. Uh, with affiliate stuff, it's,
you set up a campaign, right? But it could take you four years, it could take,
it took me four years to, to see the success in it. Um, and when I did,
when I did see the success, because, okay, here's the difference. When,
when you're doing affiliate marketing,
you can set up a campaign and you get data back, right? You get add data, what,
what landing pages words, you know, what ad networks were, what traders worked.
And then you can say, okay,
I have data that I've purchased and I can use that data. Okay,
this placement wasn't working, this ad creative wasn't working,
but this one was so I can invest my money into that, to that specific placement.
That ad created that funnel, whatever.
So you're buying data when you're trading, you're also buying data,
but unless you're viewing it that way, you're gonna be lost.
Because a lot of people are just, they're taking trades,
but they don't know why they took the trade or they're,
they're not extracting any sort of data from it. So it's just a waste of money.
And that's what keeps you in the loop of losing consistently. Cuz you're not,
you're not extracting the data. You're just, you're just trading and,
and you're, you're not even,
you're probably using the same strategy and wondering why it's not working,
right? Like you're like, okay, uh, if I trade, let's just say for example,
a fib level, a 62% for tracing level.
If I keep trading that maybe this way, this time today,
whatever, it'll work. But there's no significant, uh, extraction outta that.
You know what I mean? They're not,
they're not building a data set where they can say, okay, here are, you know,
the trades that are working and here are the trades that are not working,
and I need to focus on the aspects of my trading system that do work versus
the ones that don't like I'm, I'm wasting money trading without having data.
And the best part is the trading is, you can do it for free. Yeah.
You can get all the needs for free with marketing, you can't do it for free.
You can't just go and run ads for free. Right. So for me, when I was doing the,
uh, affiliate stuff,
it took four years of losing money until I picked something that
made me a ton of money. And at that point it was, you know,
there was more time into that, that, uh, you know,
four years of my life went into trying to make, you know,
a million dollars and then, and then yeah, it paid off eventually, you know,
I made it. But, uh, it just, it's different than trading.
But trading you could,
you could trade for six months and if you do everything correctly and you,
you really take, you know, advice at people and not have this ego, uh,
you could be profitable after six months. You could be profitable after a year.
You know, if, if you really, you know,
buckle down and got your psychology going and, you know,
not try to rush the process, you could really, you know, do something good,
maybe not even be profitable, at least a break even trader,
which is still a good thing to have in your first six months or a year,
you know? Yeah.
What what about, like, you're talking about data there. I mean,
what did you do around the knowledge and the data you had when you had the
S N R advanced stuff? How did you,
how did you sort of get that confidence in it, uh, to start trading in live?
So I was just,
I was extracting data from certain points in the market of where the reaction
is most likely going to happen and the specific entry model for
when price reaches a certain level.
So I started building up a spreadsheet, you know,
I had a spreadsheet and I would track, okay, is it better to sell from,
let's say a resistance become support, or a support become resistance?
Is it better to sell from that or buy from that sell or buy from that level?
Or is it better just to sell or buy from resistance or support?
Right? So if I was selling, you have, you have three levels, uh,
where you can take a cell phone, you have resistance, you have a QM level,
qua motor level, and then you have your support becomes resistance level.
Now those are three data points.
And then we also take the data point from let's say a daily key level.
Okay. When we hit a daily key level and we form that certain market structure,
which point does it typically come back to?
Does it come back to the resistance becomes or support becomes resistance?
Does it come back to the QM level or does it come back to resistance?
Which one is more frequent?
So those are the type of data sets that I was building.
And then I would look at, okay, we came from a daily level.
Where are we most likely headed if we broke structure on the daily versus if we
broke structure on H four, are we most likely headed to the next daily support,
or are we most likely headed to an H four support? You know,
so those are the kind of things that I was building.
And then I was also like, man,
my journey was building pretty crazy. But, uh, you know,
I I had tried so many things, so many different types of strategies, woff,
uh, sm C, all those things. And woff, I would say was pretty good, honestly,
Woff, uh, you know, it, it, it had a lot of validity to it.
Uh, it's just like the, not like the way a lot of people were teaching,
it was wrong because in white o you have volume
which people just overlook. And even now people just use choke.
There's just one piece of whitehawk, you know,
and they're basing their whole entire analysis off that like, it's a magic pill,
but it's, it's not, you know, it's just another lens to look at the market.
You know, there's some elements of woff that are in ICT theories.
Uh, there is some elements of woff into the Malaysian sn r uh,
there's pieces of Woff that are in Elliot waves, you know,
so it's just whatever lens you're looking at the market through,
you just kind of stick to one thing and master it. But with Wipe Off,
I couldn't master it because I couldn't find anything on the volume side of it.
You know,
just this one PDF online that was talking a little bit about the volume there
was that, that Ruben guy, I forgot his last name. Uh,
I tried to study his stuff a little bit,
but there was just not enough about the volume for me to be able to take Wipe
off in a more effective way. Um, I could read the, you know,
the phases and, um, you know, the basic, uh,
schematics of Wipe Off. But, you know,
without the volume and especially with the currencies, uh,
in trading whatever data feature you're getting,
it's kind of hard to dictate what is the accurate volume.
You know? Yeah. That's, that's the difficulty around the, the volume in,
in Forex. I mean, what about the, your decision to write a book,
the book the Market Maker's Matrix?
What was the genesis of that and what's somebody gonna learn if they,
if they pick that book up and, and read it?
Yeah, so that book, it, it was the weirdest thing I had,
I woke up in the morning and it was the first thing on my mind. I was like,
I should write a book. So I woke up, went to my desk,
and I sat there for 48 hours and I wrote the book in two days.
Oh, seriously?
Yeah. It was just like,
this was something that just dawned on me and I was like, okay, I gotta do this.
And I was like,
I know this is gonna help a lot of people who are studying S M C and they just
can't figure out certain, certain parts of it.
Certain moving parts of sm c like Shanghai .
And then especially with the psychology part of it, you know,
I go into a lot of the psychology behind how to trade in that fashion.
Right. Um, that book, uh, you know,
that there's a lot of people that had have read that book and they hit me up
and they're like, Hey, read your book. Great book, love your book. I'm like,
thanks. Do you coach, you know, the methods in this book. I like, I'm sorry,
I don't anymore. I don't trade that way. So I don't,
and that's why I had a big YouTube channel.
I took everything down because I just don't trade s c anymore.
Oh, so the, so the Marketmakers Matrix is based on an SMC style trading? Yeah.
Okay. Right.
Right, right. So it's based on smc and a lot of people got value from it. Um,
but I no longer trade that way. So I don't book the book anymore. I don't,
you know. Yeah. It's cool that I still have it out there. It's still on Amazon.
You still get it and it's still great book, still calling it,
and people get a lot from it who are, who, you know,
want to trade that style. I'm not saying there's anything bad about an S style.
It's actually a great style if you have a fortitude for it, you have that.
Yeah.
That book's great, especially for an entry level, uh,
beginner who wants to learn more about, you know, s c concepts.
And, and you talk about like, you know, if you've got the mindset for it, if,
uh, and you talk about mindset, I mean,
it seems like your mindset was pretty good at the start. Uh,
would you agree with that? And do you do anything to sort of keep it on track?
Uh, at the start of my trading?
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I mean, my mindset wasn't that great. You know,
I still went through all the, uh,
the things that the typical trader goes through the struggles of, you know,
why is everybody else making money? Why am I not, how did they catch this trade?
How come I'm not in that trade? I'm too dumb, not too stupid, whatever the,
the excuses in your, in your head, the negative self-talk, you know,
those things still, even now, they still sometimes arise. You know,
when I see some of my trading mentors and, and I'm like, God,
how did they catch that one? I didn't, I didn't see that. You know, and,
and you can beat yourself before it, or you just say, you know what? I just,
I just didn't see it. It was just not part of, you know, my strategy today.
Or I just, I was, you know, something was bothering me in my head or, you know,
I just wasn't ready for it or whatever the excuse is. Um, but no, I had,
I had, uh, plenty of tough times. I've had time.
I've broken down crying on my computer before, you know, like, it,
it was a very frustrating journey. Okay. You know, I,
I think everybody goes through it and, and it's necessary. Um, you know, it's,
it's part of the, the process to to, to get there. And, and if you're thinking,
like, if you're thinking, um, the,
the further I get into this, the worse I'm getting,
the more knowledge I take on, the worse I'm getting. Cuz that,
that's a commonality too, is, uh, you're, you're not getting worse. You know,
you're just, you're, you're putting more, uh, pieces to your puzzle.
And, you know, that's something that I learned from somebody on YouTube,
you know, when I was going through that phase, I was, you know, dang,
more I know the, the worse I'm getting, you know? Um, and I,
I picked up that psychology thing. It's like, no, you're not,
you're not getting worse. You're,
you're actually learning what you need to be learning.
You're exactly where you need to be. Mm. Uh, you're just,
you just have the information overload, you know, it, it's kind.
I I would say trading's one of those things where you have to learn a bunch of
stuff and then forget most of it, you know? Yeah.
It's funny. It just reminds me of my golf, like, you know, 12 years ago,
maybe 15 years ago,
I went around in less than 90 and I since then got gradually worse
up until like, it just the last few last month, I,
even the last month I actually started getting better again. , right?
I got so bad that I was going around in 130 and I was,
I could not hit the ball. Um, so,
and I'm finally just starting to go back and, and get better now. Right. Um,
we're gonna dive into the quickfire round here and then, uh, then wrap up. So,
um, first question is, Helen Long,
did it take you to go from trading newbie to consistently profitable?
Uh, probably, let's see,
like two or three years, like two and a half to three years.
And that was based on, that was starting from what point?
Because you did start when you were 16, I suppose. So, I mean, is that, yeah,
so.
I mean, when I was, when I was trading penny stocks, I was profitable. Um,
you know, so I had that early, I had that early, um,
lesson in trading. I knew like what trading was about.
It wasn't like I just dived into something. And I also had, you know, uh,
success in the options market as well before I dived into four X.
So I kind of had the, uh, the psychology a bit.
You know, I had a little bit of psychology skills, mental skills. Um,
I had skills before entering Link Forex, so the transition wasn't that hard,
you know? So I would say yeah,
around three years to see like two and a half to see any sort of consistency.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. And, and just to, for people listening,
if you state at the end,
I'll tell you a fun fact around penny stocks at the end of the show, um,
what's your favorite entry setup?
Uh, breakout, pullback entry. Simple as it sounds.
Uh, what strategies do you use for exiting trades and managing them?
Uh, I use key levels.
And do you use any breakevens or trailing stops or anything like that? Yeah.
Yeah. Uh, I always use a stop loss and, and if, uh,
market reaches a certain point, I'll set my, I sell the breakeven.
Uh, what's your recommended trading book or resource?
Market makers matrix, uh, Mark Douglas, uh, training in the Zone.
Uh, that's a really good book to help with your psychology for.
Sure. And what's your preferred broker and trading platform?
Um, right now I would say I'm always testing new ones.
There's one that I'm testing right now called N Onec m uh,
and the reason I'm testing this cause they have a thousand, uh, leverage.
So one of what? Thousand.
Hey folks, ever wonder what broker I use? Well, I use Hanko Trade.
It was a no-brainer because I was looking for a broker with good trading
conditions and one that wouldn't restrict my leverage.
Now by joining HaCo Trade Off,
also cut down my trading costs significantly with their super low commission of
just a $1 per 100 K.
You can learn more@hankotrade.com or just click the link of putting the
description. Okay. And is that T four, T five ctra or something else?
T4.
Uh, and what was your worst ever trade? Do you wanna walk us through that?
Yeah, my worst trade was, uh, AMMC recently, actually,
probably a couple months ago. Uh,
I actually sent out to my telegram group at the time. I said, Hey, uh,
probably should buy M kmc and I bought EMC and it was, you know,
for 1000 to 10,000 in one day,
and then quickly blew that the next day.
Oh.
Geez. Yeah.
Um, if you could leave Alyssa's with one piece of advice, what would it be?
Um,
not to give up to keep pushing and do not trade with live funds.
Like, just stop, you know, like you have demo.
Get consistent on there. Get consistent on the demo.
You can take as many shots as you want and you're not gonna lose any live money.
There's no point to trading, uh,
with live funds unless you've got something going for you.
Cool. Cool. Look, before we wrap up,
what's the best way for traders to get hold of you?
Uh, you can check out my website, uh, black rabbit free.com. I give free tips,
free resources, and, uh, free lessons. So you can definitely check that out.
Okay, cool.
Now for those that did stick around to listen to this Penny stock story,
it's not that good. But, uh,
I was watching an episode of Below Deck,
this reality TV series last week and I'm like,
what the hell they got?
Tim Timothy Soaks was on there as one of the guests on the,
on the yacht and I'm like, damn it. I've interviewed that guy in like episode,
I can't remember. It was my first podcast, 52 traders. I'm like,
I've interviewed that guy who's on, uh, who was on Below Deck,
couldn't believe it. Sweet. If you wanna go and check that out,
I think it is in the members area of trading that, um,
under the 52 Traders podcast. Right? Look,
a big thank you to Evan for sharing with us today.
Everything we've discussed here,
along with all the links are in the show notes to find them,
simply search for Evan in the search box on trading net.com. Until next time,
we all my listeners at Trading Happiness and Success. Alright folks,
do you have an interview done and dust with Evan now?
We did rec record a video after this where he breaks down his advanced S N R
Trading strategy. This is pretty crazy stuff.
Never seen it here on the channel before.
Go and check it out over there on the YouTube channel. Uh,
other things to remember, we've got that live, those live streams happening,
so we're gonna be doing some stuff with the Federal Crest funding challenges
over there. So go and check those out to be in as part of that. Uh,
other things, the Robot Builders Club,
if you do wanna join in January or February this year, 2023,
I'll give you that bootcamp recording with the recordings of the bootcamp and
also the download for the Lazy River. So hit me up Lazy River support at ca,
uh,
trading nut.com and we'll get you that bootcamp when you join the Robot Builders
Club in these two months. Alright folks, thanks for watching.
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode,
which if you're on YouTube, you can click around and get access to that now.