1
00:00:59,549 --> 00:01:01,409
You and I are both struggling. That out.

2
00:01:01,789 --> 00:01:04,269
We're both struggling with that. And I feel

3
00:01:04,269 --> 00:01:06,349
like I'm never down. Like, I'm not like

4
00:01:06,430 --> 00:01:08,109
I don't have a lot of downtime. I

5
00:01:08,109 --> 00:01:10,430
feel like I'm always fighting right now. It's

6
00:01:10,430 --> 00:01:12,510
like You are, man. You're hitting up that

7
00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:15,325
bargaining teamwork, man. As I don't know. I

8
00:01:15,325 --> 00:01:17,325
don't know. That's they're so That's that's what

9
00:01:17,325 --> 00:01:18,924
they call the lord's work, bro. Because it's

10
00:01:18,924 --> 00:01:19,745
not easy.

11
00:01:21,245 --> 00:01:23,484
Yeah. And I'm out here. I don't even

12
00:01:23,564 --> 00:01:25,924
man Working on that graduate degree. Working on

13
00:01:25,965 --> 00:01:28,290
And being on Colorado teacher of the year.

14
00:01:28,450 --> 00:01:30,609
Man. And and and doing all the other

15
00:01:30,609 --> 00:01:31,109
stuff.

16
00:01:31,489 --> 00:01:32,770
I know. People, like, ask me how I

17
00:01:32,770 --> 00:01:34,129
do all of it, and I it's just

18
00:01:34,129 --> 00:01:35,730
like a blur. I'm like, do all the

19
00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:37,750
what? Like, it's just my life right now.

20
00:01:37,810 --> 00:01:40,150
Like Like, I don't know. I just remember

21
00:01:40,385 --> 00:01:42,944
our our dude, doctor William Anderson. I saw

22
00:01:42,944 --> 00:01:46,064
his office at DU, bruh. Yeah. I was

23
00:01:46,064 --> 00:01:48,305
like, man. You got it styled out. It's

24
00:01:48,385 --> 00:01:50,465
well, because you know the university built a

25
00:01:50,465 --> 00:01:52,325
whole building for the college of education.

26
00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:54,939
I did not know this. Yeah. I I

27
00:01:54,939 --> 00:01:56,780
did not know this either. And then I

28
00:01:56,780 --> 00:01:57,420
went, and,

29
00:01:58,060 --> 00:02:00,140
I was like, dang. Everybody's here.

30
00:02:01,340 --> 00:02:02,640
And I saw I saw

31
00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:03,600
William,

32
00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:07,100
up there in his office. It was pretty

33
00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:07,600
wild.

34
00:02:08,875 --> 00:02:11,435
Yeah. I'm try so I have this, so

35
00:02:11,435 --> 00:02:13,114
you've seen me come in the building at

36
00:02:13,114 --> 00:02:15,594
times. Right? I'm, like, carrying everything. I I'm,

37
00:02:15,594 --> 00:02:17,754
like, training for my next I'm gonna be

38
00:02:17,754 --> 00:02:20,074
helping people go up Everest. That's my next

39
00:02:20,074 --> 00:02:21,935
career because I already A Sherpa.

40
00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:24,259
Yeah. And so well, I'm not from that

41
00:02:24,259 --> 00:02:26,259
culture, but I'll be able to carry things.

42
00:02:26,259 --> 00:02:28,180
But I'll I'll you'll you'll you'll you'll be

43
00:02:28,180 --> 00:02:28,680
learning.

44
00:02:29,139 --> 00:02:31,139
Sherpa and trade. So but it's funny because

45
00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:32,739
I'm they're like, oh, you look like you're

46
00:02:32,739 --> 00:02:34,019
moving. I'm like, I have my whole life

47
00:02:34,019 --> 00:02:36,120
on my back right here. Like, this backpack

48
00:02:36,579 --> 00:02:38,344
is my job. This

49
00:02:38,965 --> 00:02:41,864
messenger bag is is grad school.

50
00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:44,644
This big cooler is my food because I

51
00:02:44,644 --> 00:02:46,965
need to eat, and then I've got workout

52
00:02:46,965 --> 00:02:49,284
clothes, like, just in case. I like that.

53
00:02:49,284 --> 00:02:50,460
So it's just a trip.

54
00:02:51,420 --> 00:02:52,879
Yo. We are out here.

55
00:02:53,659 --> 00:02:54,159
Welcome

56
00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:55,760
to another episode,

57
00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:59,020
of two doped teachers and a Mike. My

58
00:02:59,020 --> 00:03:00,400
name is Eduardo Munoz.

59
00:03:00,780 --> 00:03:02,080
And I am Kevin Adams.

60
00:03:02,540 --> 00:03:04,319
And we are here

61
00:03:05,045 --> 00:03:05,545
on,

62
00:03:06,165 --> 00:03:08,004
on a on a sunny October day, wouldn't

63
00:03:08,004 --> 00:03:10,885
you say? Yes. Yes. It it's it's getting

64
00:03:10,885 --> 00:03:11,385
colder.

65
00:03:11,844 --> 00:03:14,564
Yeah. Definitely getting colder, but sunny today. Sunny

66
00:03:14,564 --> 00:03:16,564
right now. Think there's some weather on the

67
00:03:16,564 --> 00:03:17,064
way.

68
00:03:17,610 --> 00:03:18,349
Oh, really?

69
00:03:18,650 --> 00:03:21,290
I believe so tomorrow. There's supposed Wait. What

70
00:03:21,290 --> 00:03:22,889
kind of weather? I think it's supposed to

71
00:03:22,889 --> 00:03:25,450
be some rain and possible you know, when

72
00:03:25,450 --> 00:03:28,090
they say that rain snow mix. Oh, bruh.

73
00:03:28,090 --> 00:03:29,950
No. Oh, that's That's what I heard. That's

74
00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:31,824
what I heard. My my my weather app,

75
00:03:31,824 --> 00:03:33,844
which you can't see because of my background,

76
00:03:33,905 --> 00:03:34,645
is telling

77
00:03:35,104 --> 00:03:37,284
me that there's rain possibly

78
00:03:37,985 --> 00:03:40,004
with snow. That's that's wild.

79
00:03:42,544 --> 00:03:43,365
How you been?

80
00:03:44,180 --> 00:03:44,659
You know,

81
00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:47,860
I feel like again, that's a loaded question

82
00:03:47,860 --> 00:03:49,159
these days, but I'm

83
00:03:49,460 --> 00:03:51,800
I'm I'm above ground. I am kicking,

84
00:03:52,659 --> 00:03:54,659
you know, and I'm doing all the things

85
00:03:54,659 --> 00:03:55,879
that I have to do,

86
00:03:57,139 --> 00:03:58,520
with with constant

87
00:03:59,175 --> 00:04:01,514
questioning of if I'm doing it well

88
00:04:01,814 --> 00:04:02,555
or right.

89
00:04:04,055 --> 00:04:06,375
I mean, define well and define right. I

90
00:04:06,375 --> 00:04:08,534
mean, you know, right now, you and I

91
00:04:08,534 --> 00:04:10,694
had an incident. Not not that makes it

92
00:04:10,694 --> 00:04:12,474
sound like we were fighting. Woah.

93
00:04:13,175 --> 00:04:15,389
Woah. Woah. That was instant. You know, I

94
00:04:15,389 --> 00:04:17,470
often have incidents with people who don't know

95
00:04:17,470 --> 00:04:19,089
that they had incidents with me.

96
00:04:19,470 --> 00:04:19,970
So,

97
00:04:21,310 --> 00:04:22,589
you know, we had a we had a

98
00:04:22,589 --> 00:04:23,410
thing happen,

99
00:04:23,949 --> 00:04:25,709
a couple weeks ago where we were gonna

100
00:04:25,709 --> 00:04:27,069
work together and do a little bit of

101
00:04:27,069 --> 00:04:28,995
planning, and then you weren't able to do

102
00:04:28,995 --> 00:04:30,595
it because you got called in to do

103
00:04:30,595 --> 00:04:32,194
coverage. And I think that's, like, one of

104
00:04:32,194 --> 00:04:34,274
the things that's really hard about being a

105
00:04:34,274 --> 00:04:36,035
teacher right now, like, across the system, not

106
00:04:36,035 --> 00:04:38,754
just in our school. There are literally just

107
00:04:38,754 --> 00:04:41,894
not enough humans in education right now.

108
00:04:42,194 --> 00:04:44,639
Like, all of us is doing our job

109
00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:46,319
plus one or two other jobs on a

110
00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:48,100
daily basis. And I think that

111
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,160
when it comes to am I doing this

112
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,319
well enough, there's also the question of is

113
00:04:52,319 --> 00:04:54,339
the capacity there for me to actually,

114
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,579
you know, do what I need to do,

115
00:04:57,314 --> 00:04:58,754
to the best of my ability? I think

116
00:04:58,754 --> 00:05:00,514
that's a real question right now. So are

117
00:05:00,514 --> 00:05:02,595
you doing well enough? Yeah, bro. You're enough,

118
00:05:02,595 --> 00:05:04,834
baby. I mean, I guess so. You know?

119
00:05:04,834 --> 00:05:06,995
But I think always, you you you're the

120
00:05:06,995 --> 00:05:09,555
toughest critic. You know? Yeah. So, I mean,

121
00:05:09,555 --> 00:05:12,115
I think I think probably compared to others,

122
00:05:12,115 --> 00:05:13,680
I I I don't know. I guess I'm

123
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,319
doing well. You know? But but, again Compared

124
00:05:16,319 --> 00:05:18,479
to others Like, in my mind names. Who

125
00:05:18,479 --> 00:05:20,399
are those others? Oh, I I I won't

126
00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:21,759
do that because they probably come back and

127
00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:23,519
be like, hey. You ain't doing nothing. You

128
00:05:23,519 --> 00:05:25,599
ain't you ain't got nothing. But in my

129
00:05:25,599 --> 00:05:27,904
mind, I'm doing well. You know? Because that's

130
00:05:27,904 --> 00:05:29,904
what I'm about. I got a positive self

131
00:05:29,904 --> 00:05:31,285
image. You do.

132
00:05:31,985 --> 00:05:34,144
But, you know, it's I feel like that's

133
00:05:34,144 --> 00:05:36,865
that's the challenge right now in education is

134
00:05:37,024 --> 00:05:38,084
and I think we

135
00:05:39,264 --> 00:05:40,725
I think we are in

136
00:05:41,310 --> 00:05:43,870
different times. You know? Things have changed, and

137
00:05:43,870 --> 00:05:46,270
and just trying some different approaches. And I

138
00:05:46,430 --> 00:05:48,529
and and, you know, I think

139
00:05:49,149 --> 00:05:51,250
trying to be transformative

140
00:05:52,029 --> 00:05:52,689
or laboratory

141
00:05:52,990 --> 00:05:55,485
is is hard. It's not easy. It's not

142
00:05:55,485 --> 00:05:57,564
an easy process, and there's a lot that

143
00:05:57,564 --> 00:05:58,764
goes into it. But,

144
00:05:59,245 --> 00:06:00,925
Well, and if we if if it was

145
00:06:00,925 --> 00:06:02,625
easy, we wouldn't have to be liberated.

146
00:06:03,004 --> 00:06:05,245
That's right. That's right. And we wouldn't we

147
00:06:05,245 --> 00:06:07,024
wouldn't be if we sweat it. You know?

148
00:06:07,084 --> 00:06:09,165
And so that that's where I'm at. It's,

149
00:06:09,949 --> 00:06:12,669
I think a realistic perspective, but but but,

150
00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:15,870
getting through it. Getting through it. And the

151
00:06:15,870 --> 00:06:17,949
joy of of being I still just love

152
00:06:17,949 --> 00:06:18,689
these kids,

153
00:06:19,470 --> 00:06:21,629
being back in person and and just Yeah.

154
00:06:21,790 --> 00:06:24,654
Seeing them be themselves and and and go

155
00:06:24,654 --> 00:06:26,834
through the process and readjust to

156
00:06:27,375 --> 00:06:28,595
to all the demands,

157
00:06:29,134 --> 00:06:31,055
you know, that are being placed upon them

158
00:06:31,055 --> 00:06:33,535
even though I don't know. Like, you know,

159
00:06:33,535 --> 00:06:35,555
I think they're still getting used to, like,

160
00:06:35,774 --> 00:06:37,535
hey. I haven't seen my people in a

161
00:06:37,535 --> 00:06:38,274
long time.

162
00:06:38,654 --> 00:06:39,154
Yeah.

163
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,240
And I still think that's a priority for

164
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,079
them. We gotta we gotta do we gotta

165
00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:44,680
do an episode where you just kinda talk

166
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,599
a little bit about that because what we're

167
00:06:46,599 --> 00:06:48,939
kinda coming back to, like like, we're realizing

168
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,479
that the loss that has happened, like, what

169
00:06:51,479 --> 00:06:53,144
this pandemic has cost us,

170
00:06:54,104 --> 00:06:56,104
academics are only a small part of that.

171
00:06:56,104 --> 00:06:58,104
That's right. There have been much heavier costs

172
00:06:58,104 --> 00:06:59,384
that aren't being talked about,

173
00:06:59,865 --> 00:07:01,704
and we're gonna need to talk about them.

174
00:07:01,704 --> 00:07:02,204
Woah.

175
00:07:03,305 --> 00:07:05,784
Something is happening outside. No idea. Do you

176
00:07:05,784 --> 00:07:07,544
do you notice? We for those of you

177
00:07:07,544 --> 00:07:09,790
who finish it. For the those of you

178
00:07:09,790 --> 00:07:12,270
who are are just getting the audio version

179
00:07:12,270 --> 00:07:13,970
of this because it's the only version,

180
00:07:14,830 --> 00:07:16,590
we we are not in the same room

181
00:07:16,590 --> 00:07:18,370
currently. We are in the same building,

182
00:07:18,750 --> 00:07:20,590
but we wanna be unmasked, and that's how

183
00:07:20,590 --> 00:07:22,334
we wanna do this. Right? And be safe.

184
00:07:22,574 --> 00:07:24,175
I just wanna see your sweet face, man.

185
00:07:24,175 --> 00:07:25,454
That's it. That's it. That's all it is.

186
00:07:25,454 --> 00:07:28,175
That's all it is. So speaking of the,

187
00:07:28,175 --> 00:07:30,014
like, the Well, what about you? How you

188
00:07:30,014 --> 00:07:31,555
doing? How how are you?

189
00:07:32,254 --> 00:07:34,754
Man, I am I'm great, honestly.

190
00:07:35,214 --> 00:07:35,714
And,

191
00:07:36,270 --> 00:07:38,449
I'm busy and I'm exhausted all the time.

192
00:07:38,830 --> 00:07:39,330
And

193
00:07:39,870 --> 00:07:42,270
I kind of, like I'm on muscle memory

194
00:07:42,270 --> 00:07:43,790
at this point, kinda like, okay. I know

195
00:07:43,790 --> 00:07:45,730
I go in this direction at this time,

196
00:07:45,949 --> 00:07:47,629
and then I drive to this place and

197
00:07:47,629 --> 00:07:49,470
that kind no, man. It's good. I'm staying

198
00:07:49,470 --> 00:07:50,110
real busy.

199
00:07:51,034 --> 00:07:53,194
You know, my my grad school program is

200
00:07:53,194 --> 00:07:55,435
is amazing. I'm enjoying it so much. I'm

201
00:07:55,435 --> 00:07:56,574
learning so much.

202
00:07:57,115 --> 00:07:59,594
I feel like I'm the least intelligent person

203
00:07:59,594 --> 00:08:01,115
in the room most times, but I feel

204
00:08:01,115 --> 00:08:02,875
like that's I think that's good for me

205
00:08:02,875 --> 00:08:04,334
on a on a number of levels.

206
00:08:05,329 --> 00:08:07,970
And so that's been kinda fun. I also,

207
00:08:08,370 --> 00:08:10,209
I'm getting ready to go to DC, Maine.

208
00:08:10,209 --> 00:08:12,050
There you go. Go to DC. What are

209
00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:13,889
you going to DC for? So,

210
00:08:14,290 --> 00:08:15,110
cause problems.

211
00:08:15,889 --> 00:08:18,855
Cause problems. Thorough trouble. Good trouble. A good

212
00:08:18,855 --> 00:08:21,194
trouble. Yeah. That's right. In in the legacy

213
00:08:21,254 --> 00:08:22,875
of the late, John Lewis,

214
00:08:23,334 --> 00:08:25,254
trying to trying to make some good trouble.

215
00:08:25,254 --> 00:08:27,274
Yeah. No. They're, they're hosting,

216
00:08:28,055 --> 00:08:30,134
all of us state teachers of the year

217
00:08:30,134 --> 00:08:31,595
for probably our last

218
00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:34,600
in person, like, official event together,

219
00:08:35,059 --> 00:08:37,460
during our term. Actually, we're about to announce

220
00:08:37,460 --> 00:08:39,700
the 2022 Colorado teacher of the year in

221
00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:40,899
a couple weeks. And,

222
00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:43,539
so then my term will start drawing to

223
00:08:43,539 --> 00:08:44,679
a close. And,

224
00:08:45,299 --> 00:08:46,735
so we're gonna be out there. It's called

225
00:08:46,735 --> 00:08:48,815
Washington Week. We get to meet some policy

226
00:08:48,815 --> 00:08:49,315
folks.

227
00:08:50,174 --> 00:08:52,815
I I have received an email saying that

228
00:08:52,815 --> 00:08:55,075
it is okay for me to tell everybody

229
00:08:55,375 --> 00:08:57,455
that there will also be a White House

230
00:08:57,455 --> 00:08:57,955
visit.

231
00:08:58,414 --> 00:08:59,554
So your boy

232
00:08:59,934 --> 00:09:01,799
is gonna be up in in the White

233
00:09:01,799 --> 00:09:03,320
House or maybe on the White House lawn.

234
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,160
I don't know which we're gonna be in.

235
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,580
Well, remember that number one, my favorite question

236
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,120
is to ask about the history of the

237
00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,519
White House and who built it and Yeah.

238
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,399
Where those people stay and all of that

239
00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:18,495
important information to put them No. On blast

240
00:09:18,495 --> 00:09:18,995
constantly.

241
00:09:19,534 --> 00:09:21,054
Yeah. We gotta do that. Three twenty crew,

242
00:09:21,054 --> 00:09:22,434
you gotta make sure you do that.

243
00:09:23,134 --> 00:09:24,195
So I got that.

244
00:09:24,975 --> 00:09:26,654
And I'm still, like, vibing over the fact

245
00:09:26,654 --> 00:09:28,335
that I got to meet kid Meryl last

246
00:09:28,335 --> 00:09:31,110
week. Yes. Shout out. School. And How was

247
00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:32,710
that? We still haven't chopped it up about

248
00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:34,149
that. No. We haven't. I have to tell

249
00:09:34,149 --> 00:09:35,370
you about it. That dude is

250
00:09:35,830 --> 00:09:37,769
funny. And, actually, one of

251
00:09:38,149 --> 00:09:40,149
the one of the biggest hearts that I've,

252
00:09:40,149 --> 00:09:41,910
like, ever been on a Zoom call with.

253
00:09:41,910 --> 00:09:43,429
Like, the dude is just full of love

254
00:09:43,429 --> 00:09:45,995
and just super dope and hoping we

255
00:09:47,174 --> 00:09:48,774
can figure something out. You know what I'm

256
00:09:48,774 --> 00:09:50,855
saying? Yes. We gotta figure it out. It

257
00:09:50,855 --> 00:09:52,315
might be something to figure out.

258
00:09:53,095 --> 00:09:54,934
But you know what I'm really excited about

259
00:09:54,934 --> 00:09:55,995
right now? That?

260
00:09:56,375 --> 00:09:57,434
I am excited.

261
00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,059
I am hype.

262
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,600
Like, the kids don't say hyped. They say

263
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,180
hype. Yes. I am hype

264
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:05,700
about what

265
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:06,980
you all

266
00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:10,879
in the nation are about to receive. Kevin,

267
00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:12,340
what are they about to receive?

268
00:10:13,054 --> 00:10:16,575
They are about to hear an interview with

269
00:10:16,575 --> 00:10:18,034
the imminent scholar

270
00:10:19,534 --> 00:10:22,195
and and thinker and and pedagogist

271
00:10:22,735 --> 00:10:26,815
And artist. Artist, Goldie Mohammed, the author of

272
00:10:26,815 --> 00:10:27,875
the the

273
00:10:29,370 --> 00:10:31,370
highly popular, if you haven't checked it out,

274
00:10:31,370 --> 00:10:34,889
Cultivating Genius. Seminole even. It it is is

275
00:10:34,889 --> 00:10:37,549
a powerful book, I think, for all educators

276
00:10:40,089 --> 00:10:40,990
looking to

277
00:10:41,585 --> 00:10:43,205
educate black students,

278
00:10:43,745 --> 00:10:44,804
BIPOC students.

279
00:10:45,985 --> 00:10:47,125
A really powerful

280
00:10:47,504 --> 00:10:50,965
very powerful book with tons of great strategies,

281
00:10:51,024 --> 00:10:52,085
a clear framework,

282
00:10:52,545 --> 00:10:54,304
things that you like, I read that book,

283
00:10:54,304 --> 00:10:56,129
and there were things that I was like,

284
00:10:56,129 --> 00:10:58,690
I can every day I read it, things

285
00:10:58,690 --> 00:11:01,009
that I can implement the next day. And

286
00:11:01,009 --> 00:11:04,389
so I think it is like, doctor Mohammed

287
00:11:04,529 --> 00:11:05,669
is so powerful,

288
00:11:06,289 --> 00:11:08,449
such a thinker, and I just think that

289
00:11:08,449 --> 00:11:09,509
the people will

290
00:11:10,424 --> 00:11:13,485
be deeply moved and inspired by this interview.

291
00:11:14,184 --> 00:11:15,465
I I agree. And,

292
00:11:16,105 --> 00:11:17,945
and you're a lot. Learn a lot. And

293
00:11:17,945 --> 00:11:19,865
spoiler alert, you're not you won't hear Kevin

294
00:11:19,865 --> 00:11:21,565
right away. It's not because I'm monopolizing

295
00:11:21,945 --> 00:11:22,684
and silencing,

296
00:11:23,384 --> 00:11:24,659
my brother over here.

297
00:11:25,059 --> 00:11:28,500
He was pulled into some professional obligations. We

298
00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:31,159
may or may not be recording this during,

299
00:11:31,860 --> 00:11:33,399
a time. And,

300
00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:36,339
you know, so he he comes late, but

301
00:11:36,339 --> 00:11:38,664
as you're gonna find out, he comes right

302
00:11:38,664 --> 00:11:41,485
on time. He is on time for this.

303
00:11:41,784 --> 00:11:44,105
Yeah. We we were a we reached out

304
00:11:44,105 --> 00:11:45,804
to doctor Mohammed via Twitter.

305
00:11:47,065 --> 00:11:48,504
She loved the name of the podcast. I

306
00:11:48,504 --> 00:11:50,899
mean, that's what it is, man. Come for

307
00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:51,779
the name.

308
00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:54,879
Stay for the conversation. That's it. That's it.

309
00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:56,559
We also get a fire top five from

310
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,519
her, and so that's pretty Yes. Beautiful. So

311
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:01,440
we just wanna invite y'all to sit back,

312
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:01,934
relax,

313
00:12:02,254 --> 00:12:05,375
enjoy some wisdom, some artistry, some creativity, and

314
00:12:05,375 --> 00:12:06,115
some laughs.

315
00:12:06,495 --> 00:12:07,875
Myself, Gerard Munoz,

316
00:12:08,254 --> 00:12:10,034
Kevin Adams with doctor

317
00:12:10,335 --> 00:12:11,634
Goldie Mohammed.

318
00:12:14,350 --> 00:12:16,509
Hey. What's every what's up? Well, that was

319
00:12:16,509 --> 00:12:18,509
easy for me to say. What is up,

320
00:12:18,509 --> 00:12:21,330
everybody? It's me, Gerardo Munoz.

321
00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:24,370
Sans Kevin for the moment. Kev,

322
00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:26,750
I hope he's gonna be here. He got

323
00:12:26,750 --> 00:12:29,445
caught up in some school related things, and

324
00:12:29,445 --> 00:12:29,945
we

325
00:12:30,485 --> 00:12:31,785
are definitely two,

326
00:12:32,245 --> 00:12:34,504
school teachers in the city of Denver

327
00:12:34,805 --> 00:12:35,545
right now.

328
00:12:35,925 --> 00:12:37,764
But you are listening to two dope teachers

329
00:12:37,764 --> 00:12:40,345
in a mic, and it just really, really,

330
00:12:40,884 --> 00:12:42,345
really gives me incredible

331
00:12:42,990 --> 00:12:44,289
pleasure and humility

332
00:12:44,909 --> 00:12:45,409
and

333
00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:46,210
fanboying

334
00:12:46,590 --> 00:12:49,230
status and all that kind of stuff to

335
00:12:49,230 --> 00:12:51,409
introduce to you our guest,

336
00:12:52,029 --> 00:12:54,850
doctor Goldie Mohammed. Doctor Mohammed, how are you?

337
00:12:55,894 --> 00:12:58,615
I am well. Thank you. I'm so happy

338
00:12:58,615 --> 00:13:01,815
to be upon amongst the dopeness of the

339
00:13:01,815 --> 00:13:02,315
podcast.

340
00:13:02,774 --> 00:13:04,855
So thank you for having me. I would

341
00:13:04,855 --> 00:13:06,615
argue that you are more than amongst it,

342
00:13:06,615 --> 00:13:08,375
but you were probably bringing most of it

343
00:13:08,375 --> 00:13:09,195
at the moment.

344
00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:12,559
Even if Kevin makes it into the conversation,

345
00:13:13,259 --> 00:13:14,399
I do not think

346
00:13:14,779 --> 00:13:17,420
that, we will overwhelm the amount of dopeness

347
00:13:17,420 --> 00:13:19,279
that you have. So we just really appreciate

348
00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:21,100
you being here. For those of you who

349
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:23,759
don't follow doctor Mohammed's work, follow doctor Mohammed's

350
00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:24,225
work,

351
00:13:25,985 --> 00:13:27,845
professor at Georgia State University

352
00:13:28,304 --> 00:13:28,804
and,

353
00:13:29,184 --> 00:13:30,245
or or no?

354
00:13:30,784 --> 00:13:34,464
No. I I just returned to my alma

355
00:13:34,464 --> 00:13:34,964
mater,

356
00:13:35,745 --> 00:13:36,485
this summer.

357
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:39,289
So late this summer, I started,

358
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:42,490
at University of Illinois at Chicago,

359
00:13:42,950 --> 00:13:45,669
which is where I finished my graduate studies,

360
00:13:45,669 --> 00:13:47,829
and now I'm an associate professor of language

361
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:48,970
and literacy there.

362
00:13:49,284 --> 00:13:51,684
So I love it. This is University of

363
00:13:51,684 --> 00:13:54,985
Illinois at Chicago. Shout out to Justin Johnson,

364
00:13:55,845 --> 00:13:58,004
my good friend who is the Illinois teacher

365
00:13:58,004 --> 00:13:58,825
of the year,

366
00:13:59,284 --> 00:13:59,784
teaches

367
00:14:00,085 --> 00:14:00,585
band,

368
00:14:01,284 --> 00:14:03,524
in the area. Y'all should connect at some

369
00:14:03,524 --> 00:14:05,860
point. So, well, thank you for the correction.

370
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,299
Really appreciate it.

371
00:14:07,919 --> 00:14:10,820
We we've been so excited to have you,

372
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,000
on the podcast, doctor Mohammed, because so much

373
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,940
of your work is just so

374
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:16,820
transformational

375
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,019
and so refreshing and so powerful.

376
00:14:20,855 --> 00:14:22,615
I've been teaching this my twenty third year

377
00:14:22,615 --> 00:14:24,934
as a teacher, and I needed your book

378
00:14:24,934 --> 00:14:26,154
twenty three years ago.

379
00:14:27,014 --> 00:14:27,495
And,

380
00:14:28,134 --> 00:14:30,214
it's just got so many wonderful lessons. So

381
00:14:30,214 --> 00:14:32,075
I wanna talk with you a little bit

382
00:14:32,375 --> 00:14:34,279
about some of the lessons from the book

383
00:14:34,279 --> 00:14:35,820
and then some of the bigger picture

384
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,960
projects that you're working on. And if we

385
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,799
have time, we'll get to, we'll get to

386
00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:42,759
some, top five rapper talk, which is something

387
00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:44,200
that we like to do here on the

388
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:44,700
show.

389
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:45,580
So

390
00:14:47,955 --> 00:14:48,934
so your book,

391
00:14:49,394 --> 00:14:50,615
Cultivating Genius,

392
00:14:51,235 --> 00:14:51,735
which

393
00:14:52,115 --> 00:14:54,695
deals with the topic of culturally and historically

394
00:14:54,914 --> 00:14:55,975
responsive literacy,

395
00:14:57,875 --> 00:15:00,195
is is is a book that has been

396
00:15:00,195 --> 00:15:02,230
recommended all over the place. I got it

397
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:04,409
as soon as, it came out.

398
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:07,610
And it's a really fascinating book.

399
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:09,610
There are five sort of

400
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:11,909
dispositions, I forget what you call them,

401
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:14,470
that you sort of focus on. Can you

402
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:15,929
talk a little bit about

403
00:15:16,264 --> 00:15:17,565
what those are,

404
00:15:18,105 --> 00:15:19,644
and kind of how you came

405
00:15:20,105 --> 00:15:21,725
to those, to that understanding?

406
00:15:23,144 --> 00:15:24,764
Sure. Yeah. So,

407
00:15:25,625 --> 00:15:26,285
I studied

408
00:15:27,865 --> 00:15:28,684
black history,

409
00:15:29,065 --> 00:15:30,125
black literacies,

410
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,059
black educational,

411
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,940
educate educational history as well. And,

412
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:41,799
particularly, I studied communities called black literary societies

413
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,019
Yeah. Which started in the eighteen hundreds. And

414
00:15:45,674 --> 00:15:48,495
I would read what, you know, our ancestors

415
00:15:48,715 --> 00:15:50,095
wrote about education,

416
00:15:50,715 --> 00:15:51,534
about thinking,

417
00:15:52,154 --> 00:15:52,975
about learning.

418
00:15:53,914 --> 00:15:56,554
And it it was it was making me

419
00:15:56,554 --> 00:15:57,375
think about,

420
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,879
education today and how I can be a

421
00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:01,620
better teacher.

422
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,500
And so in studying some of these artifacts

423
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:05,379
and archives,

424
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,580
I came to five major pursuits

425
00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:12,320
Pursuits. Or components of learning. Uh-huh. They had

426
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,139
five major

427
00:16:14,004 --> 00:16:16,565
goals or pursuits for learning, and they call

428
00:16:16,565 --> 00:16:18,504
their learning standards pursuits.

429
00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:20,745
And I thought that was, like, a very

430
00:16:20,804 --> 00:16:21,304
interesting

431
00:16:21,924 --> 00:16:22,424
word

432
00:16:23,125 --> 00:16:23,625
because,

433
00:16:24,004 --> 00:16:26,245
you know, you've been teaching twenty three years.

434
00:16:26,245 --> 00:16:28,584
You know the feeling of standard versus

435
00:16:28,990 --> 00:16:30,129
feeling of pursuit.

436
00:16:30,509 --> 00:16:33,230
Yeah. A standard is, like, kind of a

437
00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:35,870
bit small in comparison. It comes from someone

438
00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:38,529
else. There's a ceiling. There's a stopping point.

439
00:16:38,670 --> 00:16:41,149
A pursuit means it's more self driven and

440
00:16:41,149 --> 00:16:44,210
evolving and purposeful. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so

441
00:16:44,605 --> 00:16:45,884
their pursuits were,

442
00:16:46,365 --> 00:16:48,605
identity development. As they were learning, they were

443
00:16:48,605 --> 00:16:50,705
coming closer to who they are,

444
00:16:51,965 --> 00:16:53,345
in a sense of self.

445
00:16:54,044 --> 00:16:56,285
They were also learning the pursuit of skills.

446
00:16:56,285 --> 00:16:58,845
They were learning the skills and proficiencies needed

447
00:16:58,845 --> 00:17:02,259
across math, science, and language, and arts, and

448
00:17:02,259 --> 00:17:02,759
history.

449
00:17:03,539 --> 00:17:06,339
They were, number three, learning the pursuit of

450
00:17:06,339 --> 00:17:06,839
intellectualism.

451
00:17:07,299 --> 00:17:10,519
They were striving toward knowledge put into action.

452
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:12,759
The fourth pursuit,

453
00:17:13,505 --> 00:17:16,164
involves abolition two is criticality,

454
00:17:17,264 --> 00:17:19,764
which is they wanted to claim

455
00:17:20,304 --> 00:17:22,304
language and ways to use it to make

456
00:17:22,304 --> 00:17:23,284
the world better.

457
00:17:23,585 --> 00:17:25,444
So they were using criticality

458
00:17:25,825 --> 00:17:27,125
and developing it

459
00:17:27,549 --> 00:17:28,369
as a way

460
00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:30,450
of naming, disrupting

461
00:17:30,910 --> 00:17:32,289
oppression in the world.

462
00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:35,150
And then the fifth pursuit is joy. They

463
00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:36,210
were experiencing

464
00:17:36,670 --> 00:17:38,130
and acting beauty,

465
00:17:38,430 --> 00:17:39,170
the aesthetics,

466
00:17:39,965 --> 00:17:40,465
truth,

467
00:17:41,085 --> 00:17:41,585
justice.

468
00:17:42,125 --> 00:17:42,605
Yeah.

469
00:17:43,244 --> 00:17:45,505
That's among us. And these five pursuits

470
00:17:46,445 --> 00:17:49,825
became a collective model that I brought into

471
00:17:49,965 --> 00:17:53,005
contemporary times into schools and classrooms today to

472
00:17:53,005 --> 00:17:55,460
take up to bring a different type of

473
00:17:55,460 --> 00:17:58,259
pedagogy to our children, one that is is

474
00:17:58,259 --> 00:17:59,319
steeped in this,

475
00:18:00,259 --> 00:18:01,720
historical black genius.

476
00:18:02,419 --> 00:18:04,419
Yeah. And I think the thing that is

477
00:18:04,419 --> 00:18:04,919
so,

478
00:18:06,259 --> 00:18:08,119
striking to me is is

479
00:18:08,554 --> 00:18:11,214
as I read and reread your work

480
00:18:11,674 --> 00:18:14,234
is that a lot of our sort of

481
00:18:14,234 --> 00:18:16,174
culturally responsive pedagogy

482
00:18:16,474 --> 00:18:17,855
that we're rolling out

483
00:18:18,234 --> 00:18:20,015
at the district at district levels,

484
00:18:20,794 --> 00:18:21,294
through,

485
00:18:21,674 --> 00:18:23,694
you know, traditional systems of education

486
00:18:24,849 --> 00:18:25,349
promotes

487
00:18:26,049 --> 00:18:26,549
CRE

488
00:18:26,849 --> 00:18:28,769
as if it's a as as if it's

489
00:18:28,769 --> 00:18:32,069
like this kind of newfangled adjustment to education.

490
00:18:32,369 --> 00:18:34,210
And what's so striking to me about your

491
00:18:34,210 --> 00:18:35,109
work is

492
00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:38,369
that you are rooting it in with terms

493
00:18:38,369 --> 00:18:39,190
like restore,

494
00:18:39,815 --> 00:18:40,315
recover,

495
00:18:41,494 --> 00:18:43,575
draw from history. Like, these are things that

496
00:18:43,575 --> 00:18:45,815
are really interesting because I think you're one

497
00:18:45,815 --> 00:18:46,474
of the only,

498
00:18:47,575 --> 00:18:50,954
folks that whose name comes across our desk

499
00:18:51,015 --> 00:18:51,755
as teachers

500
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:54,210
who is saying, no. We're not looking

501
00:18:54,670 --> 00:18:57,869
at something new. We're not reinventing. So we're

502
00:18:57,869 --> 00:19:00,049
actually going back into history.

503
00:19:00,990 --> 00:19:03,309
So can you can you talk about how

504
00:19:03,630 --> 00:19:06,049
why it's important to view education and educational

505
00:19:06,349 --> 00:19:06,849
equity

506
00:19:07,414 --> 00:19:10,694
through this lens rather than we have this

507
00:19:10,694 --> 00:19:12,694
new thing, and we gotta do this new

508
00:19:12,694 --> 00:19:13,974
thing. Because we don't do this new thing,

509
00:19:13,974 --> 00:19:15,974
we're beginning to do old things. This is

510
00:19:15,974 --> 00:19:17,275
a reach back to history.

511
00:19:18,615 --> 00:19:19,755
Well, you know,

512
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,859
I'm I'm suggesting

513
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,400
reach back in history to,

514
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:26,019
do better today

515
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,500
because it's better.

516
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,099
It's working.

517
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:32,720
There you go. If if you told me

518
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,619
that, like,

519
00:19:34,525 --> 00:19:36,605
something else was better for children, I'll be

520
00:19:36,605 --> 00:19:38,125
for that too. There you go. There you

521
00:19:38,125 --> 00:19:41,325
go. It's it's really about what's more advanced,

522
00:19:41,325 --> 00:19:44,285
what's more rigorous, what's more intellectual, what's better

523
00:19:44,285 --> 00:19:46,525
for our children. Right. And it just so

524
00:19:46,525 --> 00:19:47,744
happens, and ironically,

525
00:19:48,605 --> 00:19:49,105
that

526
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:51,829
to know what to do for the future

527
00:19:51,829 --> 00:19:53,509
of education, we have to go to the

528
00:19:53,509 --> 00:19:54,970
past. And usually,

529
00:19:55,509 --> 00:19:57,990
you know, the his the history isn't really

530
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:59,369
seen as, like, oh,

531
00:19:59,829 --> 00:20:00,329
advancement

532
00:20:00,710 --> 00:20:02,809
or technology or innovation.

533
00:20:03,274 --> 00:20:04,954
That's right. But, you know, they had they

534
00:20:04,954 --> 00:20:05,934
were doing more,

535
00:20:07,355 --> 00:20:09,054
stronger pursuits than we,

536
00:20:09,835 --> 00:20:13,134
do today, than we, mandate today in schools.

537
00:20:13,514 --> 00:20:14,654
Mhmm. And so

538
00:20:15,115 --> 00:20:15,514
because

539
00:20:15,930 --> 00:20:17,769
and I'm not the first to say this

540
00:20:17,769 --> 00:20:20,190
and to sort of adhere to this Sankofa,

541
00:20:21,130 --> 00:20:21,630
ideology.

542
00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:24,890
The future is best served when we go

543
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:25,390
back.

544
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:26,670
Mhmm.

545
00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:28,809
And I won't be the last to say

546
00:20:28,809 --> 00:20:31,454
it, but, you know, there's something beautiful

547
00:20:31,835 --> 00:20:32,815
that was there.

548
00:20:33,194 --> 00:20:34,634
And I think we talk a lot about

549
00:20:34,634 --> 00:20:37,054
the pains and the oppression

550
00:20:37,515 --> 00:20:38,255
of history,

551
00:20:38,714 --> 00:20:40,795
but we had groups of people who were

552
00:20:40,795 --> 00:20:42,974
doing something beautiful that we can learn

553
00:20:43,369 --> 00:20:46,170
from to thrive today. And that's really what

554
00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:47,529
it's about. It's really,

555
00:20:48,170 --> 00:20:50,730
going with what's most excellent, and that's what

556
00:20:50,730 --> 00:20:52,970
I've been taught to do. If you're most

557
00:20:52,970 --> 00:20:55,049
excellent, I wanna be on your team. I

558
00:20:55,049 --> 00:20:57,769
wanna be on you. And that's these are

559
00:20:57,769 --> 00:20:59,194
the most excellent models.

560
00:20:59,734 --> 00:21:02,954
Yeah. Absolutely. The, two points and

561
00:21:03,414 --> 00:21:03,914
one

562
00:21:04,214 --> 00:21:06,934
that just really got me deep. You talked

563
00:21:06,934 --> 00:21:09,434
about when we go back into history, we

564
00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:12,054
we can't we we see the pain that

565
00:21:12,054 --> 00:21:13,194
there's a lot of history,

566
00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:16,529
of pain, especially when it comes to experience

567
00:21:17,150 --> 00:21:18,210
experiences of,

568
00:21:18,589 --> 00:21:19,809
black people in America,

569
00:21:20,349 --> 00:21:22,609
and people of color more generally as well.

570
00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:23,409
And,

571
00:21:23,869 --> 00:21:25,470
but I I think that this is such

572
00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:26,049
a humanizing

573
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:27,970
approach because

574
00:21:28,734 --> 00:21:30,434
you are quite literally ascribing

575
00:21:30,894 --> 00:21:33,454
more human characteristics to the folks who were

576
00:21:33,454 --> 00:21:33,954
impacted

577
00:21:34,255 --> 00:21:35,875
and forced into enslavement.

578
00:21:36,494 --> 00:21:38,894
And so the these are the there these

579
00:21:38,894 --> 00:21:41,214
legacies that are there, but there's also this

580
00:21:41,214 --> 00:21:43,315
really vibrant intellectual activity,

581
00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:45,920
that that sounds like was happening.

582
00:21:46,460 --> 00:21:49,519
Let let me ask you about these,

583
00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:51,759
these literary societies.

584
00:21:53,259 --> 00:21:55,339
When you were researching these, when you were

585
00:21:55,339 --> 00:21:57,420
learning about these and kind of applying them

586
00:21:57,420 --> 00:21:59,279
as as, as a praxis,

587
00:22:01,305 --> 00:22:03,545
Where are there some examples that come up

588
00:22:03,545 --> 00:22:06,664
about the like, where these literary societies happen,

589
00:22:06,664 --> 00:22:08,744
how one of them maybe started, what they

590
00:22:08,744 --> 00:22:10,365
were studying and talking about?

591
00:22:10,664 --> 00:22:12,845
Did did you get into some of those?

592
00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:14,119
Oh, yeah.

593
00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:18,519
You know, before black literary societies, there were

594
00:22:19,059 --> 00:22:19,559
antislavery

595
00:22:20,259 --> 00:22:20,759
societies,

596
00:22:22,019 --> 00:22:22,519
benevolent

597
00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:23,400
societies,

598
00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:24,759
moral societies.

599
00:22:26,154 --> 00:22:27,775
They had religious societies.

600
00:22:28,474 --> 00:22:29,694
The word societies

601
00:22:30,154 --> 00:22:30,654
became,

602
00:22:32,234 --> 00:22:33,615
a way of naming

603
00:22:34,075 --> 00:22:35,295
organized efforts,

604
00:22:35,994 --> 00:22:37,775
by African American people.

605
00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:40,730
And so there's a history of organization,

606
00:22:41,589 --> 00:22:42,409
of collectivism,

607
00:22:43,349 --> 00:22:44,409
of coming together

608
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:46,970
to read, write, think,

609
00:22:47,509 --> 00:22:48,809
learn from each other,

610
00:22:49,829 --> 00:22:51,990
get your mind right, get your heart right.

611
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:53,444
Get your mind right. That's right.

612
00:22:54,244 --> 00:22:56,105
And get your religion right because,

613
00:22:56,644 --> 00:22:58,565
you know, a lot of these societies were,

614
00:22:58,565 --> 00:23:00,744
you know, heavily steeped in religion.

615
00:23:01,204 --> 00:23:03,944
And so they sort of then repurposed themselves

616
00:23:04,164 --> 00:23:05,304
into black literary

617
00:23:05,619 --> 00:23:07,960
societies where it was more focused on education

618
00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:10,179
and reading and writing and thinking and debating

619
00:23:10,179 --> 00:23:12,579
and things like that. Right. And then later,

620
00:23:12,579 --> 00:23:15,720
when they sort of dissolve, they repurposed themselves

621
00:23:15,859 --> 00:23:18,819
into historically black sororities and fraternities in the

622
00:23:18,819 --> 00:23:19,640
nineties. Okay.

623
00:23:19,984 --> 00:23:22,144
So it's like a legacy that continues and

624
00:23:22,144 --> 00:23:24,305
that Yeah. They were sort of adapting to

625
00:23:24,305 --> 00:23:26,404
the times around them. There there were situations,

626
00:23:26,945 --> 00:23:29,424
but what was important was was having these

627
00:23:29,424 --> 00:23:31,525
communities that have a set of values.

628
00:23:32,539 --> 00:23:35,279
Yeah. And and you still see this repurposing

629
00:23:35,579 --> 00:23:37,819
today. I mean, you still see this sense

630
00:23:37,819 --> 00:23:38,480
of collectivism

631
00:23:38,859 --> 00:23:39,839
in new organization

632
00:23:40,299 --> 00:23:41,919
and new organized efforts.

633
00:23:43,019 --> 00:23:46,059
Even with my summer writing institute, Black Girls

634
00:23:46,059 --> 00:23:46,559
Write,

635
00:23:46,859 --> 00:23:48,535
I like to think of it as, like,

636
00:23:48,535 --> 00:23:49,595
a contemporary,

637
00:23:51,095 --> 00:23:52,315
literary society.

638
00:23:52,934 --> 00:23:55,335
And so while these started in Boston, New

639
00:23:55,335 --> 00:23:56,154
York, Philadelphia,

640
00:23:56,455 --> 00:23:56,955
DC,

641
00:23:57,654 --> 00:23:58,154
Connecticut,

642
00:23:58,455 --> 00:23:59,355
you know, those,

643
00:24:00,170 --> 00:24:02,970
cities and areas in the Northeastern part of

644
00:24:02,970 --> 00:24:03,710
our nation,

645
00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:07,049
they started to spread a little further out

646
00:24:07,369 --> 00:24:08,990
Yeah. As, you know,

647
00:24:09,690 --> 00:24:12,829
we we reclaimed our own power and and

648
00:24:13,585 --> 00:24:15,845
and more liberties and things like that.

649
00:24:16,225 --> 00:24:16,725
Yeah.

650
00:24:17,184 --> 00:24:18,884
So that's amazing. I I

651
00:24:19,265 --> 00:24:20,565
I thank you for that,

652
00:24:21,265 --> 00:24:23,684
for these examples because I think that

653
00:24:24,305 --> 00:24:26,065
it's not just saying that there is a

654
00:24:26,065 --> 00:24:27,509
great thing that happened in the past, but

655
00:24:27,509 --> 00:24:29,670
it but it's a legacy that's continued over

656
00:24:29,670 --> 00:24:30,890
centuries. And

657
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:33,590
it doesn't always have the same name, but

658
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:35,670
it always has the same sort of,

659
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:38,009
to your point, pursuits. Right?

660
00:24:39,554 --> 00:24:40,454
So I've been doing,

661
00:24:40,994 --> 00:24:43,394
in my graduate school work, I'm taking a

662
00:24:43,394 --> 00:24:46,194
class on, that's an analysis of teaching. Right?

663
00:24:46,194 --> 00:24:47,494
And so I've got frameworks

664
00:24:47,875 --> 00:24:50,434
on the brain right now. And these kind

665
00:24:50,434 --> 00:24:52,375
of, like, different ways of looking at frameworks

666
00:24:52,434 --> 00:24:53,894
and realizing the frameworks,

667
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:57,160
I heard in the interview with Charlotte Danielson

668
00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:58,740
who had done one of the I forget

669
00:24:58,740 --> 00:25:00,660
which framework it was. And,

670
00:25:01,220 --> 00:25:03,539
she talks about how using a framework for

671
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:05,480
using her framework for evaluation

672
00:25:06,019 --> 00:25:08,119
was actually sort of the lowest common denominator

673
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:10,144
that there are much greater things that can

674
00:25:10,144 --> 00:25:12,625
be done with the framework. And so that

675
00:25:12,625 --> 00:25:14,865
kinda brings me to a question about your

676
00:25:14,865 --> 00:25:16,164
framework. It's so,

677
00:25:16,704 --> 00:25:17,765
clearly defined,

678
00:25:18,544 --> 00:25:21,105
and so it it's just there are aspects

679
00:25:21,105 --> 00:25:23,319
of it that are common sense, but the

680
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:26,039
thread is so powerful and so important. Who

681
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:28,039
would you say that the framework that you

682
00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:30,859
write about in cultivating genius is for,

683
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:32,460
and

684
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:35,819
what are the greatest sort of manifestations

685
00:25:36,845 --> 00:25:39,244
of the framework that that you have written

686
00:25:39,244 --> 00:25:39,744
about?

687
00:25:41,244 --> 00:25:43,345
You know, so I I think

688
00:25:43,644 --> 00:25:44,305
I think

689
00:25:44,765 --> 00:25:46,945
the way art works. Right?

690
00:25:47,565 --> 00:25:50,384
You start with saying this was the intention

691
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:53,430
and the thought behind it. Right. And then

692
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:56,549
you allow yourself to be open for the

693
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:59,369
beautiful ways that your art can manifest.

694
00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:00,730
Right? I can understand

695
00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:02,805
that. That. I love that.

696
00:26:03,765 --> 00:26:06,404
Yeah. You know, my intention and first thinking

697
00:26:06,404 --> 00:26:08,085
around it, and I think it's okay to

698
00:26:08,085 --> 00:26:11,305
have first, second, third thinking around frameworks. Yeah.

699
00:26:11,765 --> 00:26:13,845
Yeah. Because today I know more than what

700
00:26:13,845 --> 00:26:14,664
I knew yesterday.

701
00:26:15,045 --> 00:26:15,945
Mhmm. And,

702
00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:18,750
so my first thinking is,

703
00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:21,789
this is a pedagogical framework. This is one

704
00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:25,130
that's for teaching and learning and to help,

705
00:26:25,450 --> 00:26:25,950
structure

706
00:26:26,410 --> 00:26:28,730
pedagogy in terms of lesson plans and unit

707
00:26:28,730 --> 00:26:30,410
plans and what we teach and how we

708
00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:31,070
teach it.

709
00:26:32,065 --> 00:26:32,725
And then

710
00:26:33,105 --> 00:26:35,525
it has also been you know,

711
00:26:35,904 --> 00:26:38,565
my next thinking has turned into,

712
00:26:39,664 --> 00:26:42,065
this is also around assessment. This is also

713
00:26:42,065 --> 00:26:44,725
around teacher observation and evaluation.

714
00:26:45,105 --> 00:26:46,880
How are they teaching and,

715
00:26:47,579 --> 00:26:48,079
successfully

716
00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:50,160
these five pursuits?

717
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:54,319
I have seen it as a benchmark assessment,

718
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:56,319
so where I started to create benchmark

719
00:26:56,940 --> 00:26:59,774
assessments around these five pursuits so that we're

720
00:26:59,774 --> 00:27:00,994
collecting more data

721
00:27:01,454 --> 00:27:04,335
and not just skill reading and writing and

722
00:27:04,335 --> 00:27:04,835
reading

723
00:27:05,615 --> 00:27:07,714
math levels, right, with skills.

724
00:27:09,054 --> 00:27:11,634
It has it has morphed into,

725
00:27:12,654 --> 00:27:14,115
people using the

726
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:17,769
the model to think about business

727
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:19,769
and Oh, interesting.

728
00:27:20,150 --> 00:27:21,990
Yeah. Equity. You know? So I've been working

729
00:27:22,150 --> 00:27:24,809
like, I work with Adcolor and Google, and,

730
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:27,670
they're even thinking about how do these five

731
00:27:27,670 --> 00:27:30,070
pursuits show up in our company and our

732
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:31,954
ways, our interview protocol.

733
00:27:32,494 --> 00:27:34,994
You know, I have talked to doctors

734
00:27:35,295 --> 00:27:37,934
of how these five pursuits show up in

735
00:27:37,934 --> 00:27:40,335
health care and making sure we're safe in

736
00:27:40,335 --> 00:27:41,154
those spaces.

737
00:27:41,694 --> 00:27:44,654
So, you know, that's the openness of art

738
00:27:44,654 --> 00:27:46,115
and creation and development

739
00:27:46,740 --> 00:27:47,240
is

740
00:27:47,779 --> 00:27:50,180
it if when you create something beautiful, and

741
00:27:50,180 --> 00:27:52,259
I do believe it's beautiful, this model. I

742
00:27:52,259 --> 00:27:53,559
agree. I agree.

743
00:27:54,420 --> 00:27:56,819
It's okay for me to say that because

744
00:27:56,980 --> 00:27:59,140
Yeah. I I felt the beauty when I

745
00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:00,839
was writing cultivating genius.

746
00:28:01,404 --> 00:28:03,904
And when you create something beautiful,

747
00:28:04,365 --> 00:28:05,025
I think

748
00:28:05,565 --> 00:28:07,984
it can it can have longevity,

749
00:28:09,005 --> 00:28:11,164
and it can go into multiple spaces that

750
00:28:11,164 --> 00:28:12,464
you did not initially

751
00:28:12,765 --> 00:28:13,265
imagine.

752
00:28:14,069 --> 00:28:14,549
And,

753
00:28:15,109 --> 00:28:16,409
it can have sustainability

754
00:28:16,869 --> 00:28:19,289
and, like, be timeless in some ways.

755
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:21,750
And and that's that's my hope of the

756
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:24,470
model that teachers take it and take it

757
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:27,690
into ways that my mind couldn't go initially.

758
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:29,214
I mean, that's cool.

759
00:28:29,835 --> 00:28:32,474
Wow. That's I love this because, as you

760
00:28:32,474 --> 00:28:35,134
know, the academy is often a place where,

761
00:28:35,994 --> 00:28:36,894
where a scholar

762
00:28:37,275 --> 00:28:40,075
is sort of pressured to write the final

763
00:28:40,075 --> 00:28:43,170
word on something. Right? That this is what

764
00:28:43,170 --> 00:28:44,470
this is where

765
00:28:45,089 --> 00:28:45,990
you are

766
00:28:46,289 --> 00:28:48,130
for and and for and, like, before I

767
00:28:48,130 --> 00:28:48,869
say that,

768
00:28:49,170 --> 00:28:51,170
to characterize this as a piece of art

769
00:28:51,170 --> 00:28:53,490
is so beautiful and so apt because I

770
00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:57,494
think that there's there's creativity behind this thinking

771
00:28:57,494 --> 00:28:59,734
and the fact that it is flexible and

772
00:28:59,734 --> 00:29:02,295
it is something that can be built upon,

773
00:29:02,295 --> 00:29:03,835
I think, is is really beautiful.

774
00:29:04,855 --> 00:29:07,115
So what you're sort of saying is that

775
00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:10,450
cultivating genius is is open to cultivation.

776
00:29:10,990 --> 00:29:11,490
Right?

777
00:29:11,789 --> 00:29:12,990
That you can,

778
00:29:13,470 --> 00:29:15,390
build off of it. There are other places

779
00:29:15,390 --> 00:29:16,450
where it can go.

780
00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:18,509
And I love this point. You know, the

781
00:29:18,509 --> 00:29:20,690
the thing that I that I really think

782
00:29:21,069 --> 00:29:22,929
is, wonderful. There's

783
00:29:23,464 --> 00:29:25,325
there as as a teacher

784
00:29:25,705 --> 00:29:27,625
as an early service teacher, I was really

785
00:29:27,625 --> 00:29:28,765
focused on

786
00:29:29,144 --> 00:29:31,384
on practice. Like, okay. How how do I

787
00:29:31,384 --> 00:29:33,464
do what are the assignments that I should

788
00:29:33,464 --> 00:29:34,125
be given

789
00:29:34,585 --> 00:29:35,884
giving and and

790
00:29:36,369 --> 00:29:38,529
what are the specific lessons. And then as

791
00:29:38,529 --> 00:29:41,269
I kinda grew, I started to think bigger.

792
00:29:41,970 --> 00:29:43,190
This work does both,

793
00:29:44,369 --> 00:29:45,429
particularly the,

794
00:29:45,970 --> 00:29:47,569
I think it's, I think it's in chapter

795
00:29:47,569 --> 00:29:48,849
three where you talk a little bit about

796
00:29:48,849 --> 00:29:49,349
identity

797
00:29:49,815 --> 00:29:50,315
And,

798
00:29:51,335 --> 00:29:53,914
the notions around identity formation

799
00:29:54,615 --> 00:29:56,954
are really complex and really deep and philosophical.

800
00:29:57,174 --> 00:29:59,255
And then you go into, and here's how

801
00:29:59,255 --> 00:30:01,835
you work with identity with young people. And

802
00:30:01,974 --> 00:30:02,794
I just

803
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:05,720
am so into that. Was was that something

804
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,720
that came kinda naturally to you, the pedagogy

805
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,240
and praxis thing, or did you have to

806
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,160
do work on one end or the other

807
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,940
to kind of get into that mind space?

808
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,079
No. It came very natural. I mean, that's

809
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:19,075
one of the only things that come natural

810
00:30:19,134 --> 00:30:21,855
in life. Everything else the lack I had

811
00:30:21,855 --> 00:30:24,734
to really work at. But pedagogy and practice

812
00:30:24,734 --> 00:30:26,894
and curriculum comes very natural to me, and

813
00:30:26,894 --> 00:30:29,934
I'm thankful for that. Yeah. My PhD studies

814
00:30:29,934 --> 00:30:31,634
didn't as much. I struggle

815
00:30:32,410 --> 00:30:34,190
through it, but, you know, we make it.

816
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:36,109
Mhmm. But, yeah, you know,

817
00:30:36,890 --> 00:30:37,390
I

818
00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:40,170
I think part of the reason I struggled

819
00:30:40,170 --> 00:30:40,990
in my PhD

820
00:30:42,329 --> 00:30:44,750
is because I would see all this scholarship,

821
00:30:44,890 --> 00:30:46,650
and I would see the schools. And I'm

822
00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:47,150
like,

823
00:30:47,565 --> 00:30:49,024
why this big gap?

824
00:30:49,644 --> 00:30:51,585
And I would see, like, folks

825
00:30:52,125 --> 00:30:54,924
putting pressure to write all these articles, but

826
00:30:54,924 --> 00:30:56,144
schools weren't changing.

827
00:30:57,244 --> 00:30:59,184
I would notice that, you know,

828
00:30:59,980 --> 00:31:02,559
the American Educational Research Association

829
00:31:02,859 --> 00:31:04,319
and these organizations

830
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:07,279
would be in these cities and the policies

831
00:31:07,339 --> 00:31:08,319
in these cities

832
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:11,179
weren't serving black and brown children well in

833
00:31:11,179 --> 00:31:12,880
schools. It's like, what are we doing?

834
00:31:13,394 --> 00:31:13,894
Yeah.

835
00:31:14,275 --> 00:31:16,515
What am I doing? I ask myself. And

836
00:31:16,515 --> 00:31:17,015
so

837
00:31:17,394 --> 00:31:19,654
I feel a part of me to,

838
00:31:20,595 --> 00:31:22,855
always take everything to practice

839
00:31:23,234 --> 00:31:23,974
and to,

840
00:31:24,994 --> 00:31:26,775
because I stay in schools.

841
00:31:27,169 --> 00:31:29,109
I don't teach like you do,

842
00:31:29,569 --> 00:31:31,349
like you're a traditional teacher.

843
00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:33,509
Right. But, you know, I teach,

844
00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:36,210
I volunteer teach. I teach in the summers.

845
00:31:36,210 --> 00:31:38,309
I teach children. I try to

846
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:40,849
keep that empathy of a teacher and what

847
00:31:40,849 --> 00:31:41,569
it feels like,

848
00:31:43,434 --> 00:31:44,734
as much as I can.

849
00:31:45,035 --> 00:31:46,634
And I know one thing that I learned

850
00:31:46,634 --> 00:31:48,015
from teachers is that

851
00:31:48,394 --> 00:31:50,555
we need to we want to move beyond

852
00:31:50,555 --> 00:31:54,075
theory and these larger constructs and to put

853
00:31:54,075 --> 00:31:55,615
it into actionable

854
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,599
lesson plans, unit plans, something I can pick

855
00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:00,519
up and use tomorrow. What do I do

856
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:01,660
with this? Yeah.

857
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,460
Exactly.

858
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,740
But not just your traditional empty strategies.

859
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:08,140
Something that is very intellectual

860
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,585
and different and meaningful and very purposeful for

861
00:32:11,585 --> 00:32:12,085
compared

862
00:32:12,464 --> 00:32:13,605
to a lot of those,

863
00:32:14,065 --> 00:32:16,805
you know, strategies we've learned in the past.

864
00:32:17,265 --> 00:32:20,164
Yeah. And very student centered. Like, the the

865
00:32:20,305 --> 00:32:20,964
the recommendations

866
00:32:21,345 --> 00:32:22,644
you make through the framework,

867
00:32:23,345 --> 00:32:25,684
really lend themselves to a student centered,

868
00:32:26,740 --> 00:32:27,399
you know,

869
00:32:28,819 --> 00:32:31,299
set of habits. And, you know, in that

870
00:32:31,299 --> 00:32:33,460
sense, you know, having tried out particularly the

871
00:32:33,460 --> 00:32:35,799
identity stuff, the identity work is what resonates

872
00:32:35,859 --> 00:32:37,159
most deeply with me,

873
00:32:37,859 --> 00:32:38,839
because as

874
00:32:39,255 --> 00:32:39,695
a,

875
00:32:40,134 --> 00:32:42,134
Chicano growing up in the East Side Of

876
00:32:42,134 --> 00:32:43,595
Denver in a predominantly

877
00:32:44,055 --> 00:32:45,434
African American neighborhood,

878
00:32:46,214 --> 00:32:48,875
the community was beautiful. The community was tight,

879
00:32:49,015 --> 00:32:51,275
but I didn't see myself in the community.

880
00:32:51,335 --> 00:32:53,869
Right? And so I had all these questions

881
00:32:53,869 --> 00:32:56,589
about identity when when I started to come

882
00:32:56,589 --> 00:32:58,670
of age. And so those are the things

883
00:32:58,670 --> 00:33:00,430
I bring into my classroom. And it makes

884
00:33:00,430 --> 00:33:01,890
the classroom, to your point,

885
00:33:02,430 --> 00:33:05,444
feel like a society of sorts. Right? Yeah.

886
00:33:05,444 --> 00:33:07,684
Yeah. Like, we're getting into these conversations, and

887
00:33:07,684 --> 00:33:09,224
we're getting into them together.

888
00:33:09,605 --> 00:33:11,444
And I think that's what is so beautiful

889
00:33:11,444 --> 00:33:14,005
about these. And the strategies aren't overwhelming. It's

890
00:33:14,005 --> 00:33:16,964
like you build this, and there's deep thinking

891
00:33:16,964 --> 00:33:17,785
behind it.

892
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,359
But you it's it's implementable. I think I

893
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:23,500
just made up a word.

894
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:26,599
It can it's something can be implemented, in

895
00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:27,980
a deep and meaningful way.

896
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:31,019
So that's wonderful stuff.

897
00:33:31,884 --> 00:33:33,884
One one point yeah. Go ahead. Oh, I'm

898
00:33:33,884 --> 00:33:35,804
sorry. Something that you said That's all good.

899
00:33:35,804 --> 00:33:36,384
You know,

900
00:33:37,164 --> 00:33:39,904
in school, when I was developing this work,

901
00:33:40,924 --> 00:33:43,484
I I really tried to focus on why

902
00:33:43,484 --> 00:33:44,865
did they use the word

903
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:45,819
society.

904
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:48,059
You know? Yeah. Why not,

905
00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:51,819
club or and I use club or Sure.

906
00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:56,480
Society to describe our organized space. And Mhmm.

907
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,240
If our classrooms today are like litter many

908
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,494
literary societies,

909
00:34:01,034 --> 00:34:01,615
you know,

910
00:34:02,075 --> 00:34:04,714
is there something there's something more than just

911
00:34:04,714 --> 00:34:05,214
organization

912
00:34:05,595 --> 00:34:08,734
here. There's something related to, like, collectivism.

913
00:34:09,675 --> 00:34:12,155
There's something related to we are trying to

914
00:34:12,155 --> 00:34:15,695
build a society to reflect and impact and

915
00:34:16,289 --> 00:34:17,910
improve the larger society.

916
00:34:18,369 --> 00:34:20,530
So I think, like, even that language was

917
00:34:20,530 --> 00:34:21,349
very purposeful.

918
00:34:21,890 --> 00:34:23,190
Yeah. Absolutely.

919
00:34:23,489 --> 00:34:25,410
Thank you for unpacking that. I think that's

920
00:34:25,410 --> 00:34:28,150
a really important distinction. And I think too

921
00:34:28,605 --> 00:34:31,105
that what the work suggests to me

922
00:34:31,644 --> 00:34:34,385
is that while we want students to develop

923
00:34:34,445 --> 00:34:36,465
skills and to engage in pursuits

924
00:34:36,844 --> 00:34:39,344
that will help them grow as individuals,

925
00:34:40,045 --> 00:34:42,204
that that this is going beyond the kind

926
00:34:42,204 --> 00:34:43,105
of individualistic

927
00:34:43,644 --> 00:34:45,880
imperatives that I think has really defined,

928
00:34:46,660 --> 00:34:48,280
education for too long,

929
00:34:48,739 --> 00:34:51,480
and saying that being independent is really

930
00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:53,239
good. Being interdependent

931
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:55,880
in your community is really

932
00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:59,320
even that's probably the highest sort of aspiration

933
00:34:59,945 --> 00:35:01,784
for our people and for our community is

934
00:35:01,784 --> 00:35:03,704
that we learn to be interdependent. We can

935
00:35:03,704 --> 00:35:05,704
all support each other. And I think as

936
00:35:05,704 --> 00:35:08,025
you describe the word society and why that

937
00:35:08,025 --> 00:35:11,005
was an intentional choice and you name collectivism

938
00:35:11,784 --> 00:35:13,324
as a as a habit,

939
00:35:14,059 --> 00:35:16,699
that's that's that definitely pops off the pages

940
00:35:16,699 --> 00:35:18,480
to me. It's like, no. This is actually

941
00:35:19,099 --> 00:35:21,420
at its best, the framework is a set

942
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:22,239
of interdependent

943
00:35:23,099 --> 00:35:25,199
motivated people pursuing excellence.

944
00:35:26,054 --> 00:35:27,514
Sure. Yeah. Beautiful.

945
00:35:27,815 --> 00:35:28,554
That's beautiful.

946
00:35:29,574 --> 00:35:31,614
Love it so much. This is so great.

947
00:35:31,815 --> 00:35:32,795
Feel full.

948
00:35:33,094 --> 00:35:34,315
Feel good. Yeah.

949
00:35:35,574 --> 00:35:37,014
So we've got I've got a couple more

950
00:35:37,014 --> 00:35:39,094
questions and definitely wanna be mindful of your

951
00:35:39,094 --> 00:35:39,734
time. But,

952
00:35:40,569 --> 00:35:42,010
one question that comes up for me a

953
00:35:42,010 --> 00:35:44,170
lot. So in my position as Colorado State

954
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:45,609
teacher of the year, one of the things

955
00:35:45,609 --> 00:35:47,069
I'm working on is

956
00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:48,510
how do we

957
00:35:49,210 --> 00:35:49,710
diversify

958
00:35:50,170 --> 00:35:52,670
the teacher pipeline? How do we ensure

959
00:35:53,335 --> 00:35:55,015
that the tea that more of the teachers

960
00:35:55,015 --> 00:35:56,394
who are in front of our kids,

961
00:35:57,414 --> 00:35:59,275
share some sort of experiences

962
00:35:59,655 --> 00:36:01,974
with our kids or the kids can see

963
00:36:01,974 --> 00:36:04,215
themselves in front of the classroom? So when

964
00:36:04,215 --> 00:36:06,235
we start looking at the work of cultivating

965
00:36:06,295 --> 00:36:07,974
genius and your work beyond, you've done so

966
00:36:07,974 --> 00:36:08,760
much other work,

967
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,780
in addition to the book.

968
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,920
How do we engage in this work that

969
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,880
is really rooted in black excellence? And that's

970
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,719
a program that we have in in our

971
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,980
district, which we can discuss another time.

972
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:23,159
But,

973
00:36:24,545 --> 00:36:26,945
how do we implement a a program that,

974
00:36:27,825 --> 00:36:30,965
that comes out of this space when

975
00:36:31,345 --> 00:36:32,864
the vast majority of,

976
00:36:33,184 --> 00:36:35,364
public school educators are still white?

977
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,480
So I think that there's two things that

978
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,400
have to happen at the same time. I

979
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,119
think given the current population of teachers we

980
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:45,840
have, we have to educate them. We have

981
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,860
to hire conscious white teachers,

982
00:36:49,074 --> 00:36:51,894
who understand justice and Yeah. Liberation

983
00:36:52,195 --> 00:36:55,414
and equity and culturally and historically responsive education.

984
00:36:55,715 --> 00:36:56,675
We need to,

985
00:36:58,114 --> 00:36:58,614
bring

986
00:36:58,914 --> 00:36:59,735
those educators

987
00:37:00,035 --> 00:37:00,535
in

988
00:37:00,994 --> 00:37:04,050
and educate those who are currently here. Yeah.

989
00:37:04,050 --> 00:37:04,550
Simultaneously,

990
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:06,849
because that's who are in front of our

991
00:37:06,849 --> 00:37:08,869
babies every day. That's right.

992
00:37:09,730 --> 00:37:10,230
And

993
00:37:10,849 --> 00:37:11,910
I think simultaneously,

994
00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:14,469
we need

995
00:37:14,769 --> 00:37:17,650
to go and recruit and entice folks to

996
00:37:17,650 --> 00:37:19,545
come into the field, to come into our

997
00:37:20,105 --> 00:37:22,284
school. I mean, it does not matter what,

998
00:37:24,184 --> 00:37:24,684
business,

999
00:37:26,184 --> 00:37:28,264
or area we're talking about. If we're talking

1000
00:37:28,264 --> 00:37:30,364
about sports, if we're talking about business,

1001
00:37:31,625 --> 00:37:33,659
if you want the best, you go out

1002
00:37:33,659 --> 00:37:35,420
and get it. If you don't, they're great

1003
00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:36,480
for you

1004
00:37:36,859 --> 00:37:38,319
or and you recruit

1005
00:37:38,699 --> 00:37:39,500
and you,

1006
00:37:41,179 --> 00:37:42,079
you invite.

1007
00:37:42,940 --> 00:37:44,780
Yeah. You know? We need to do more

1008
00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:47,179
recruitment and inviting, and there's certainly lots of

1009
00:37:47,179 --> 00:37:51,005
programs and partnerships and pipeline programs, even grow

1010
00:37:51,005 --> 00:37:54,284
your own programs where, you know, the students

1011
00:37:54,284 --> 00:37:56,444
who graduate the district, they come back and

1012
00:37:56,444 --> 00:37:58,525
teach in that district. There's a lot of

1013
00:37:58,525 --> 00:38:01,804
great models out there. So people are doing

1014
00:38:01,804 --> 00:38:02,704
that work,

1015
00:38:03,405 --> 00:38:03,905
but,

1016
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:06,920
you know, it has to come with funding.

1017
00:38:07,059 --> 00:38:09,460
You you get out, you get the best,

1018
00:38:09,460 --> 00:38:12,039
you gotta come with something. Yeah. You know,

1019
00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:14,599
education is, like, one of the only

1020
00:38:15,860 --> 00:38:18,065
fields. You know, I'm all for, like, salary

1021
00:38:18,065 --> 00:38:20,404
equity and resource equity and stuff.

1022
00:38:20,944 --> 00:38:23,505
But, you know, we have to be more

1023
00:38:23,505 --> 00:38:24,005
imaginative

1024
00:38:24,864 --> 00:38:27,105
of getting the brightest and best teachers and

1025
00:38:27,105 --> 00:38:27,605
recruiting.

1026
00:38:28,144 --> 00:38:29,904
I always say, if I get a school

1027
00:38:29,904 --> 00:38:32,164
recruit me, I'll go back into the classroom.

1028
00:38:32,224 --> 00:38:34,570
You put the best package in front of

1029
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:37,769
me. Yeah. Whatever it is. But, you know,

1030
00:38:37,769 --> 00:38:39,690
we have to you know, schools are thinking,

1031
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:41,070
like, of hiring bonuses,

1032
00:38:41,530 --> 00:38:42,030
resources,

1033
00:38:43,130 --> 00:38:44,589
giving them a small budget,

1034
00:38:45,130 --> 00:38:47,070
you know, thinking about using our

1035
00:38:48,054 --> 00:38:51,255
our budget differently for more salaries and more

1036
00:38:51,255 --> 00:38:53,815
supports in the summers. So I think we

1037
00:38:53,815 --> 00:38:55,275
also have to

1038
00:38:55,735 --> 00:38:57,974
think of ways to recruit them, but to

1039
00:38:57,974 --> 00:39:00,454
retain them and keep them to make it,

1040
00:39:00,454 --> 00:39:00,954
like,

1041
00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:04,750
a beautiful profession to have. I think the

1042
00:39:04,750 --> 00:39:07,329
way in which education is structured right now,

1043
00:39:07,469 --> 00:39:08,369
it is enticing

1044
00:39:09,309 --> 00:39:10,210
for some

1045
00:39:10,590 --> 00:39:12,349
and for a lot of us, but it

1046
00:39:12,349 --> 00:39:14,775
can be enticing for to get more,

1047
00:39:15,175 --> 00:39:16,795
genius teachers at the table

1048
00:39:17,255 --> 00:39:19,335
even if we think something like our school

1049
00:39:19,335 --> 00:39:21,974
day and our schedule. If we created more

1050
00:39:21,974 --> 00:39:25,494
genius time, genius hours Yeah. Where we can

1051
00:39:25,494 --> 00:39:29,410
plan, like, this incredible, brilliant pedagogy, that would

1052
00:39:29,410 --> 00:39:31,730
bring more teachers in Wow. So that they're

1053
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:33,809
not so burnt out or have to teach

1054
00:39:33,809 --> 00:39:35,510
this this conscious curriculum.

1055
00:39:36,050 --> 00:39:38,690
Yeah. Yeah. This conscious I love that word

1056
00:39:38,690 --> 00:39:41,170
too. But, yeah, I I agree. And I

1057
00:39:41,170 --> 00:39:43,110
I think that, you know,

1058
00:39:43,414 --> 00:39:44,635
as as it happens,

1059
00:39:45,414 --> 00:39:46,795
money is helpful in capitalism.

1060
00:39:48,054 --> 00:39:50,695
It's it's just real talk on that end.

1061
00:39:50,695 --> 00:39:53,094
And I think energy. I mean, you have

1062
00:39:53,094 --> 00:39:55,574
to worship it. But That's right. You know,

1063
00:39:55,574 --> 00:39:56,954
it it can be energizing

1064
00:39:57,335 --> 00:39:59,010
to to help. You know, a lot of

1065
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:00,789
times, we want teachers to

1066
00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:02,469
rewrite and adapt,

1067
00:40:03,010 --> 00:40:05,170
their curriculum. And I'm like, can we pay

1068
00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:07,430
teachers to do that at least so that

1069
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:10,050
we're showing that we value their time, and

1070
00:40:10,050 --> 00:40:11,890
it is a lot for them and their

1071
00:40:11,890 --> 00:40:12,390
families?

1072
00:40:12,914 --> 00:40:14,675
Yeah. Definitely. And when you when you have

1073
00:40:14,675 --> 00:40:17,074
cities I think Chicago is probably like this.

1074
00:40:17,074 --> 00:40:19,175
Denver is definitely like this where,

1075
00:40:20,114 --> 00:40:22,195
salaries, just for people in general and wages

1076
00:40:22,195 --> 00:40:24,195
in general, make it very difficult to live

1077
00:40:24,195 --> 00:40:26,190
in the city that you wanna work in.

1078
00:40:26,349 --> 00:40:28,190
And so I think that, you know, I

1079
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:30,449
mean, at a very basic level, it's like,

1080
00:40:30,510 --> 00:40:32,109
you know, Denver, let's try to keep up

1081
00:40:32,109 --> 00:40:33,710
with the cost of living in this city

1082
00:40:33,710 --> 00:40:34,210
because

1083
00:40:34,510 --> 00:40:36,769
the alienation that's happening between,

1084
00:40:37,469 --> 00:40:40,190
kids who live in the city and teachers

1085
00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:42,164
who don't live in the city, I think,

1086
00:40:42,244 --> 00:40:43,144
is is real.

1087
00:40:45,605 --> 00:40:47,925
So this is a question from Kevin, and,

1088
00:40:48,164 --> 00:40:50,184
I'm really kinda curious on this.

1089
00:40:51,045 --> 00:40:51,545
So

1090
00:40:52,324 --> 00:40:52,824
these

1091
00:40:53,535 --> 00:40:54,035
the

1092
00:40:54,750 --> 00:40:57,090
the underlying kind of philosophy under,

1093
00:40:57,869 --> 00:40:59,010
cultivating genius

1094
00:40:59,309 --> 00:41:01,650
is very liberatory, and it really

1095
00:41:02,190 --> 00:41:05,170
is kind of reaching back to find excellence

1096
00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:06,050
for today.

1097
00:41:06,429 --> 00:41:06,909
So,

1098
00:41:07,390 --> 00:41:08,849
the question we had was

1099
00:41:09,734 --> 00:41:12,134
when you're working directly with students and we're

1100
00:41:12,214 --> 00:41:13,755
we teach middle and high school,

1101
00:41:15,174 --> 00:41:17,114
how do you recommend instilling

1102
00:41:17,734 --> 00:41:18,234
abolitionist

1103
00:41:18,534 --> 00:41:21,494
mindsets when serving children who maybe resist the

1104
00:41:21,494 --> 00:41:23,994
approach because it's foreign, it's new, it's

1105
00:41:24,659 --> 00:41:26,339
they've been kinda cut off from it in

1106
00:41:26,339 --> 00:41:27,000
some ways.

1107
00:41:27,940 --> 00:41:29,400
They're kinda used to

1108
00:41:29,699 --> 00:41:32,519
the traditional model of education, which is individualism

1109
00:41:33,219 --> 00:41:33,719
and,

1110
00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:37,780
and obedience and those kinds of things. Kevin

1111
00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:38,440
is here.

1112
00:41:39,785 --> 00:41:42,345
Kevin unpack that for a second. Yeah. I'm

1113
00:41:42,345 --> 00:41:44,505
right at his question. I know right at

1114
00:41:44,505 --> 00:41:46,684
his question. This is good.

1115
00:41:47,305 --> 00:41:48,925
There is the man.

1116
00:41:49,305 --> 00:41:50,204
Hi, Kevin.

1117
00:41:50,664 --> 00:41:53,224
We were just talking about you. We just

1118
00:41:53,570 --> 00:41:55,269
I just posed your question,

1119
00:41:56,050 --> 00:41:58,210
and I may have done it wrong. Uh-huh.

1120
00:41:58,210 --> 00:41:58,789
You wanna

1121
00:42:00,769 --> 00:42:01,909
you wanna try again?

1122
00:42:02,929 --> 00:42:05,329
Doctor Mohammed, it's so good to see you.

1123
00:42:05,329 --> 00:42:07,510
It's so good to be here. I'm sorry.

1124
00:42:07,570 --> 00:42:09,525
I have laid I've been proctoring

1125
00:42:09,824 --> 00:42:12,405
the PSAT, and we had extended time

1126
00:42:12,704 --> 00:42:15,344
in my group. Love it. You're right on

1127
00:42:15,344 --> 00:42:15,844
time.

1128
00:42:16,144 --> 00:42:18,065
Perfect. Perfect. I love it when a plan

1129
00:42:18,065 --> 00:42:20,485
comes together. But, my question is,

1130
00:42:20,945 --> 00:42:21,605
you know,

1131
00:42:21,905 --> 00:42:24,164
this year, I've been trying to really engage

1132
00:42:24,224 --> 00:42:24,724
in

1133
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:26,380
in abolitionist

1134
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,079
pedagogy in my classroom. I think it's been

1135
00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:31,640
a priority for me. And I think my

1136
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,579
question ultimately comes down,

1137
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,340
from your perspective.

1138
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,154
Like, when we start to engage in this

1139
00:42:38,154 --> 00:42:40,954
work, it's it's really becomes difficult, especially when

1140
00:42:40,954 --> 00:42:43,275
we're dealing with students who have had some

1141
00:42:43,275 --> 00:42:44,494
educational trauma,

1142
00:42:45,514 --> 00:42:47,674
in their past. And so I just wondered

1143
00:42:47,674 --> 00:42:49,275
if you had any thoughts. This is a

1144
00:42:49,275 --> 00:42:52,089
really personal question, you know, on, like, how

1145
00:42:52,089 --> 00:42:52,829
do we counteract

1146
00:42:53,369 --> 00:42:56,569
the the those moments of educational trauma while

1147
00:42:56,569 --> 00:42:57,069
still,

1148
00:42:58,170 --> 00:43:00,030
building that that joy

1149
00:43:00,569 --> 00:43:01,630
and that interest,

1150
00:43:02,409 --> 00:43:04,969
and cultivating the genius that you speak about,

1151
00:43:04,969 --> 00:43:07,224
you know, in these kind of authentic

1152
00:43:07,684 --> 00:43:10,505
ways, when sometimes students might not be,

1153
00:43:11,765 --> 00:43:13,784
because of their background and their experiences,

1154
00:43:14,085 --> 00:43:15,864
you know, ready to engage

1155
00:43:16,405 --> 00:43:17,625
in some of the things,

1156
00:43:18,885 --> 00:43:21,304
in an authentic way that it be become

1157
00:43:21,445 --> 00:43:23,980
transformative for them, if that makes that way

1158
00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:26,219
better than I did. So yes. Yeah. That

1159
00:43:26,219 --> 00:43:27,920
that was a different question too.

1160
00:43:28,779 --> 00:43:30,799
But I I love both the questions.

1161
00:43:31,819 --> 00:43:34,319
And and I I I think, you know,

1162
00:43:34,699 --> 00:43:36,699
if we think about different types of children

1163
00:43:36,699 --> 00:43:38,954
here. Right? So we might have the child

1164
00:43:38,954 --> 00:43:40,714
that's like, I don't wanna keep talking about

1165
00:43:40,714 --> 00:43:43,434
this. It feels trauma and do sometimes as

1166
00:43:43,434 --> 00:43:45,994
an adult, when we keep teaching and talking

1167
00:43:45,994 --> 00:43:48,554
about oppression and back black pain and black

1168
00:43:48,554 --> 00:43:51,275
resistance, I get tired. Even some museums I

1169
00:43:51,275 --> 00:43:52,734
go to, I'm like, woo.

1170
00:43:53,250 --> 00:43:55,329
That was heavy. Like, we need a black

1171
00:43:55,329 --> 00:43:57,730
joy museum. Why all our museums gotta be

1172
00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:58,550
so painful?

1173
00:43:58,929 --> 00:44:00,929
Yes. I mean, I go through that, and

1174
00:44:00,929 --> 00:44:01,989
I think our children

1175
00:44:02,289 --> 00:44:03,429
go through that too.

1176
00:44:03,969 --> 00:44:06,530
And, you know, I'm sitting here today, and

1177
00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:08,710
I'm starting to write a black studies curriculum.

1178
00:44:09,305 --> 00:44:10,605
Right? And I'm like,

1179
00:44:11,465 --> 00:44:13,385
this is gonna be about genius and joy

1180
00:44:13,385 --> 00:44:14,125
and Afrofuturism.

1181
00:44:15,144 --> 00:44:18,025
It's not going to that that slavery that's

1182
00:44:18,025 --> 00:44:20,744
their history. That's not our history. That's our

1183
00:44:20,744 --> 00:44:23,065
history don't start with oppression and this and

1184
00:44:23,065 --> 00:44:25,109
that. And that's that's the heaviness

1185
00:44:25,409 --> 00:44:28,449
of it because we don't have enough museums

1186
00:44:28,449 --> 00:44:29,510
of black joy

1187
00:44:30,289 --> 00:44:30,869
and and

1188
00:44:31,250 --> 00:44:32,150
and black creativity.

1189
00:44:32,609 --> 00:44:34,949
We are always we always had to resist.

1190
00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:37,329
So I think one approach will be to

1191
00:44:37,329 --> 00:44:38,734
teach the joy.

1192
00:44:39,594 --> 00:44:41,755
You know, whatever topic it is, start with

1193
00:44:41,755 --> 00:44:43,775
the joy and the genius and the innovation

1194
00:44:43,835 --> 00:44:44,815
and the spirituality

1195
00:44:45,355 --> 00:44:45,855
and

1196
00:44:46,315 --> 00:44:47,134
the the

1197
00:44:47,434 --> 00:44:50,255
whatever it is that brings that that fulfillment

1198
00:44:50,554 --> 00:44:51,214
of beauty

1199
00:44:51,674 --> 00:44:52,110
first.

1200
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:55,010
That will help to balance it out.

1201
00:44:55,309 --> 00:44:57,710
And every lesson or unit doesn't have to

1202
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:59,090
be steeped in pain.

1203
00:44:59,470 --> 00:45:01,630
Mhmm. You know, there is a I know

1204
00:45:01,630 --> 00:45:04,050
a lot of our history, even our music.

1205
00:45:04,284 --> 00:45:06,304
Right? Even the joyful parts,

1206
00:45:06,605 --> 00:45:07,505
their quilting

1207
00:45:07,804 --> 00:45:10,284
is still like pain there. Mhmm. And I

1208
00:45:10,284 --> 00:45:11,804
think we tell the truth about it. We

1209
00:45:11,804 --> 00:45:14,284
don't just ignore it, but we also teach

1210
00:45:14,284 --> 00:45:15,264
about Afrofuturism.

1211
00:45:17,019 --> 00:45:19,760
And we're in a space of infinite possibilities

1212
00:45:20,059 --> 00:45:22,799
where you can be and thrive without whiteness,

1213
00:45:23,260 --> 00:45:26,699
without anything, like, holding you back, where you

1214
00:45:26,699 --> 00:45:27,440
can literally,

1215
00:45:28,619 --> 00:45:29,119
transport

1216
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:31,284
as if you are in outer space. That's

1217
00:45:31,284 --> 00:45:32,164
what af

1218
00:45:32,605 --> 00:45:34,965
Afrofuturism allows one to do. So I think

1219
00:45:34,965 --> 00:45:36,965
we have to balance that more for our

1220
00:45:36,965 --> 00:45:38,264
black and brown children.

1221
00:45:39,125 --> 00:45:40,184
And, you know,

1222
00:45:40,724 --> 00:45:43,525
for children who just don't wanna teach learn

1223
00:45:43,525 --> 00:45:45,510
about this, because a lot of our children

1224
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:47,110
think that we don't have these problems. That's

1225
00:45:47,110 --> 00:45:50,150
y'all problems, Kevin. That's your your generation's problem.

1226
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:50,809
Yep. Yep.

1227
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:54,150
You know, we teach them. We teach them

1228
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:57,030
the contemporary aspects, the historical aspects, and why

1229
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:58,775
this this matters and why it should matter

1230
00:45:58,775 --> 00:46:01,335
to you. We make those connections to their

1231
00:46:01,335 --> 00:46:02,875
lives. You know,

1232
00:46:03,335 --> 00:46:04,214
a lot of,

1233
00:46:04,614 --> 00:46:05,594
I had a friend

1234
00:46:06,375 --> 00:46:08,375
who's Middle Eastern. I know that's like a

1235
00:46:08,375 --> 00:46:09,194
wide identity,

1236
00:46:09,494 --> 00:46:11,335
but he says and my father is like

1237
00:46:11,335 --> 00:46:13,469
this too. He's from Iran. He says, you

1238
00:46:13,469 --> 00:46:14,769
know, we grow up,

1239
00:46:15,389 --> 00:46:18,530
being very political and understanding justice and power

1240
00:46:18,829 --> 00:46:20,909
and things. So to say that this is

1241
00:46:20,909 --> 00:46:22,289
not a part of your

1242
00:46:22,750 --> 00:46:26,030
regular curriculum or pedagogy, that's something that's unique

1243
00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:28,289
that might be unique to our country.

1244
00:46:28,994 --> 00:46:30,594
Because a lot of young people have a

1245
00:46:30,594 --> 00:46:34,514
very strong political sense in other countries. Yes.

1246
00:46:34,514 --> 00:46:36,594
Not just of their own context, but of

1247
00:46:36,594 --> 00:46:39,014
other countries in addition to their own.

1248
00:46:39,394 --> 00:46:41,014
So I think it's about

1249
00:46:41,315 --> 00:46:43,654
bringing children into the fold

1250
00:46:44,119 --> 00:46:45,960
of what this is, what it looks like

1251
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,179
on a global scale,

1252
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,039
and then what how it connects to their

1253
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:52,599
own lives. And it's not always we don't

1254
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:53,900
if you don't experience

1255
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:56,840
oppression as a young child, that's a beautiful

1256
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,704
thing. Mhmm. That's why I'm with you. Whoo.

1257
00:46:59,704 --> 00:47:00,445
I'm glad.

1258
00:47:00,744 --> 00:47:03,065
Yeah. We don't want if we went through

1259
00:47:03,065 --> 00:47:04,344
it, we don't want you to go through

1260
00:47:04,344 --> 00:47:06,585
it. That's right. But it doesn't mean that

1261
00:47:06,585 --> 00:47:08,905
young child, I should not teach you what

1262
00:47:08,905 --> 00:47:10,825
other people go through and what people have

1263
00:47:10,825 --> 00:47:12,684
been through. And so they have to understand

1264
00:47:12,744 --> 00:47:15,659
that. So if it comes up if if

1265
00:47:15,659 --> 00:47:16,880
it confronts them,

1266
00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:20,059
they'll know how to navigate any form of

1267
00:47:20,059 --> 00:47:22,400
oppression and injustice. That make sense?

1268
00:47:23,019 --> 00:47:25,179
Yeah. No. I I love that. I love

1269
00:47:25,179 --> 00:47:27,579
that idea too. This this the focus on

1270
00:47:27,579 --> 00:47:29,199
the joy and that they,

1271
00:47:29,525 --> 00:47:30,825
like, the idea of Afrofuturism

1272
00:47:31,445 --> 00:47:32,664
and and the possibility

1273
00:47:32,965 --> 00:47:34,585
of what comes, you know,

1274
00:47:34,965 --> 00:47:36,644
from all of it and when we focus

1275
00:47:36,644 --> 00:47:37,545
on our joy,

1276
00:47:38,005 --> 00:47:40,244
our passion, our love that we grow up

1277
00:47:40,244 --> 00:47:41,785
with. You know? And I think

1278
00:47:42,110 --> 00:47:44,510
that that really does help, put it in

1279
00:47:44,510 --> 00:47:46,590
perspective because, like, I think I do come

1280
00:47:46,590 --> 00:47:49,070
at it heavy handed. You know? At times

1281
00:47:49,070 --> 00:47:51,150
with the kids, I'm like, this this. You

1282
00:47:51,150 --> 00:47:53,309
gotta know this. And, like, I'm teaching world

1283
00:47:53,309 --> 00:47:54,750
history, and I'm like, we we aren't even

1284
00:47:54,750 --> 00:47:56,349
talking about white people. We're talking about the

1285
00:47:56,349 --> 00:47:58,345
history of all these other people who we

1286
00:47:58,345 --> 00:48:00,664
haven't learned about. Yeah. But but I think

1287
00:48:00,664 --> 00:48:02,744
going back to the joy of it all

1288
00:48:02,744 --> 00:48:03,885
and why like,

1289
00:48:04,184 --> 00:48:06,204
what it is about these other,

1290
00:48:06,825 --> 00:48:07,565
you know,

1291
00:48:08,105 --> 00:48:09,965
histories that are so joyous.

1292
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,039
And and, like, when I read it, I

1293
00:48:12,039 --> 00:48:13,960
get wrapped up in it and wanna transfer

1294
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,359
myself to these moments and times and, you

1295
00:48:16,359 --> 00:48:17,500
know, thinking about

1296
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,260
before we we,

1297
00:48:20,839 --> 00:48:22,380
have, you know, western

1298
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,094
Eurocentric capitalism dominating our whole world. You know,

1299
00:48:26,094 --> 00:48:28,014
there were different things. And so that that

1300
00:48:28,014 --> 00:48:29,934
really does give me perspective on that. So

1301
00:48:29,934 --> 00:48:30,594
thank you.

1302
00:48:31,054 --> 00:48:31,554
Yeah.

1303
00:48:31,934 --> 00:48:34,674
Doctor Mohammed, we definitely wanna respect your time.

1304
00:48:35,534 --> 00:48:37,234
Do you have time to give us

1305
00:48:37,534 --> 00:48:38,674
a top five?

1306
00:48:40,170 --> 00:48:41,949
Top five rappers and Right.

1307
00:48:42,250 --> 00:48:44,570
So so Kevin's got the ground rules, and

1308
00:48:44,570 --> 00:48:46,409
he does a much better job of explaining

1309
00:48:46,409 --> 00:48:48,409
the guidelines than I do. So, Kevin, will

1310
00:48:48,409 --> 00:48:50,109
you share with doctor Mohammed,

1311
00:48:50,650 --> 00:48:52,829
the ground rules for your top five?

1312
00:48:53,224 --> 00:48:55,405
Yes. So so we started out saying,

1313
00:48:55,864 --> 00:48:58,045
top five rappers, MCs,

1314
00:48:58,505 --> 00:49:00,505
but I think that has evolved because we

1315
00:49:00,505 --> 00:49:01,724
know that, you know,

1316
00:49:02,425 --> 00:49:04,505
hip hop can be problematic. Hip hop is

1317
00:49:04,505 --> 00:49:05,900
growing. Hip hop

1318
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:06,940
is is problematic.

1319
00:49:07,319 --> 00:49:09,420
It it it is trying, you know, like,

1320
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:10,780
all of us

1321
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,039
trying to improve in in a variety of

1322
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:15,500
ways. But, again,

1323
00:49:16,359 --> 00:49:17,960
I think we open it up. So if

1324
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,394
it's not rappers, if it's not MCs, we've

1325
00:49:20,394 --> 00:49:22,074
had people say, you know, I love R

1326
00:49:22,074 --> 00:49:22,894
and B music,

1327
00:49:23,594 --> 00:49:25,034
and and they We might have to have

1328
00:49:25,034 --> 00:49:26,635
a separate, like, top five R and B

1329
00:49:26,635 --> 00:49:28,315
for some folks because that's, like, come up

1330
00:49:28,315 --> 00:49:29,994
a lot lately. That's come up a lot.

1331
00:49:29,994 --> 00:49:31,355
I would say that could be the whole

1332
00:49:31,355 --> 00:49:31,855
podcast.

1333
00:49:32,170 --> 00:49:32,989
That could be.

1334
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:36,250
And then we also you know, we we

1335
00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:37,550
try to be nonhierarchical.

1336
00:49:38,090 --> 00:49:40,010
So That's right. Even though we say top

1337
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:40,510
five,

1338
00:49:40,969 --> 00:49:43,530
you can, you know, have ties for people.

1339
00:49:43,530 --> 00:49:45,614
It can be, you know, not an order

1340
00:49:45,614 --> 00:49:47,215
that this is, like, what you're gonna hold

1341
00:49:47,215 --> 00:49:49,215
me to. This is my top five forever.

1342
00:49:49,215 --> 00:49:50,894
When you see me in the streets, don't

1343
00:49:50,894 --> 00:49:52,974
get at me because that was just a

1344
00:49:52,974 --> 00:49:53,474
moment.

1345
00:49:54,015 --> 00:49:55,775
And it could be what you're vibing to

1346
00:49:55,775 --> 00:49:58,275
right now. It could be all time favorite,

1347
00:49:58,599 --> 00:50:00,599
but we try to keep it as open

1348
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:01,420
as possible

1349
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:03,579
for folks. And then, finally,

1350
00:50:04,039 --> 00:50:06,119
if you you can't settle on a top

1351
00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:08,280
five, we always give the option where you

1352
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,339
can have ties,

1353
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,059
where you can go over the top five.

1354
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:13,500
You can add addendums.

1355
00:50:14,264 --> 00:50:16,264
Yeah. So take it we we give a

1356
00:50:16,264 --> 00:50:17,784
lot of appendix. There can be an appendix.

1357
00:50:17,784 --> 00:50:19,944
We call that the, Eric Hale rule. Eric

1358
00:50:19,944 --> 00:50:21,784
Hale is the Texas teacher of the year.

1359
00:50:21,784 --> 00:50:23,065
And I think by the time he was

1360
00:50:23,065 --> 00:50:24,904
done with his top five, there were probably

1361
00:50:24,904 --> 00:50:27,050
14 performers on it. Yeah. Yeah.

1362
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:31,369
So so yeah. I mean, you know,

1363
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:34,150
I I am, like, a big fan of

1364
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:36,390
Stevie Wonder. I'm always gonna say it. One

1365
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:38,934
of his songs, he was rapping. And, you

1366
00:50:38,934 --> 00:50:39,994
know, he even

1367
00:50:42,694 --> 00:50:45,335
said, Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's how I

1368
00:50:45,335 --> 00:50:46,875
would sound if I rapped.

1369
00:50:48,054 --> 00:50:48,554
So,

1370
00:50:49,014 --> 00:50:49,674
you know,

1371
00:50:50,375 --> 00:50:52,855
my favorite MC is my partner, my future

1372
00:50:52,855 --> 00:50:54,920
husband, Dee Jackson. He's a part of a

1373
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,539
group called Eighties Babies,

1374
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,380
and he wrote an album called unlearn.

1375
00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:01,819
And it was about,

1376
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,000
cultivating genius, but we didn't recognize it at

1377
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,339
the time. Right. I love that.

1378
00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:09,099
Good.

1379
00:51:09,534 --> 00:51:11,695
And so, you know, and he's

1380
00:51:12,094 --> 00:51:13,614
I'm not just saying that because I love

1381
00:51:13,614 --> 00:51:15,074
him. He's very talented

1382
00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:15,875
and

1383
00:51:16,335 --> 00:51:18,974
genius in his approach. And, you know, one

1384
00:51:18,974 --> 00:51:21,534
thing about emcees and rappers, I mean, it's

1385
00:51:21,534 --> 00:51:22,994
such a beautiful craft.

1386
00:51:23,454 --> 00:51:26,890
Yeah. And I mean, to freestyle, to create

1387
00:51:26,890 --> 00:51:29,930
language and and art in this way is

1388
00:51:29,930 --> 00:51:33,050
just I mean, I'm just in, like, awe

1389
00:51:33,050 --> 00:51:33,869
every time

1390
00:51:34,570 --> 00:51:37,775
I have experienced growing up artists and how

1391
00:51:37,775 --> 00:51:40,015
they use their voice and to the music

1392
00:51:40,015 --> 00:51:41,075
is just phenomenal.

1393
00:51:41,614 --> 00:51:42,414
Yeah. So,

1394
00:51:43,855 --> 00:51:47,235
I eighties babies and Dee Jackson, definitely.

1395
00:51:49,219 --> 00:51:50,760
I mean, from the sisters,

1396
00:51:51,859 --> 00:51:54,900
Queen Latifah and, MC Lyte. I grew up

1397
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:56,659
with them. I love them. I love their

1398
00:51:56,659 --> 00:51:57,799
cadence and everything.

1399
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:00,039
I love Tupac,

1400
00:52:00,420 --> 00:52:02,039
Busta Rhymes, Nas.

1401
00:52:04,375 --> 00:52:06,715
Kendrick Lamar is, like, one of

1402
00:52:07,015 --> 00:52:07,914
my favorites

1403
00:52:09,015 --> 00:52:10,855
now. Like, every time I listen to Kendrick

1404
00:52:10,855 --> 00:52:13,655
Lamar, he seems greater. Like like it was

1405
00:52:13,655 --> 00:52:15,494
like, this dude's great. And then I was

1406
00:52:15,494 --> 00:52:18,119
listening to the song he did with, what

1407
00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:20,539
he, that he did with Beyonce on Lemonade.

1408
00:52:20,679 --> 00:52:21,500
And I was like,

1409
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:23,579
he is great.

1410
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:26,539
And it's like it's new discovery every time.

1411
00:52:26,839 --> 00:52:28,300
Yeah. And he you know?

1412
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,654
I mean, it's just it's just such a

1413
00:52:30,654 --> 00:52:32,815
beautiful art. You know, when you think about,

1414
00:52:32,815 --> 00:52:36,034
like, Bone Thugs and New Orleans rappers, they'll

1415
00:52:36,174 --> 00:52:38,355
lose their voice and I mean,

1416
00:52:39,295 --> 00:52:41,934
it's just phenomenal. Yeah. It's great. So those

1417
00:52:41,934 --> 00:52:43,775
will be some of my people. And, you

1418
00:52:43,775 --> 00:52:44,674
know, Dee,

1419
00:52:45,789 --> 00:52:46,929
Dominique, my partner,

1420
00:52:47,549 --> 00:52:49,630
I always say that, you know, I always

1421
00:52:49,630 --> 00:52:52,109
tease him and be like, can, positive k

1422
00:52:52,109 --> 00:52:53,949
is, like, my favorite MC. Can we do

1423
00:52:53,949 --> 00:52:55,489
I got him? Oh.

1424
00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:58,429
She wants to do it. What's your man

1425
00:52:58,429 --> 00:53:00,609
got to do with me? I got him.

1426
00:53:00,945 --> 00:53:02,244
And he refuses

1427
00:53:02,545 --> 00:53:03,204
He refuses.

1428
00:53:03,905 --> 00:53:05,285
That song with me.

1429
00:53:06,065 --> 00:53:06,565
So,

1430
00:53:07,105 --> 00:53:10,224
No funny. That's my goal. Maybe positive k

1431
00:53:10,224 --> 00:53:11,505
would do it with me. You know? That's

1432
00:53:11,505 --> 00:53:14,070
right. You know? Maybe positive k would. Because

1433
00:53:14,070 --> 00:53:16,150
positive k would be like, yo. My main

1434
00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:17,690
goal in life is,

1435
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,230
you know, the control part, I got that

1436
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:22,150
down. Got it. You go. Now I'm doing

1437
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:24,070
both parts. I changed even the tone of

1438
00:53:24,070 --> 00:53:26,390
my Yeah. And I do both parts, but,

1439
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:28,605
you know, that's my dream. And and just

1440
00:53:28,605 --> 00:53:30,445
like it just like in your work, it's

1441
00:53:30,445 --> 00:53:32,125
a beginning. Right? And so you build on

1442
00:53:32,125 --> 00:53:33,184
to it. There's manifestations.

1443
00:53:33,565 --> 00:53:34,065
Right?

1444
00:53:34,605 --> 00:53:37,324
It's how it goes. Exactly. Well, we we

1445
00:53:37,324 --> 00:53:40,380
so appreciate you, coming and taking this time

1446
00:53:40,380 --> 00:53:42,699
with us, doctor Mohammed. What are you working

1447
00:53:42,699 --> 00:53:44,539
on right now? Where can people find your

1448
00:53:44,539 --> 00:53:45,039
work?

1449
00:53:46,139 --> 00:53:46,619
So,

1450
00:53:47,099 --> 00:53:49,599
they can go to hillpedagogies.com

1451
00:53:49,980 --> 00:53:53,359
and, you know, on my social media, Goldie

1452
00:53:53,420 --> 00:53:55,279
m on Twitter or Instagram.

1453
00:53:56,315 --> 00:53:57,214
I posted,

1454
00:53:57,994 --> 00:54:01,454
I I usually post, like, curriculum and, videos

1455
00:54:01,594 --> 00:54:03,534
and podcasts like this.

1456
00:54:03,835 --> 00:54:04,335
Mhmm.

1457
00:54:04,714 --> 00:54:06,414
Right now, I'm working on

1458
00:54:07,275 --> 00:54:10,029
today, I wrote a unit plan on sugar

1459
00:54:10,029 --> 00:54:10,929
with my model

1460
00:54:11,389 --> 00:54:11,710
Nice. Cool.

1461
00:54:12,429 --> 00:54:13,089
Science teachers.

1462
00:54:13,630 --> 00:54:15,809
And so I'll probably post that tomorrow.

1463
00:54:16,109 --> 00:54:16,589
And,

1464
00:54:17,069 --> 00:54:19,489
I'm working on a black studies curriculum,

1465
00:54:20,829 --> 00:54:24,049
for secondary school students, middle and high school.

1466
00:54:24,474 --> 00:54:25,295
We need that.

1467
00:54:26,155 --> 00:54:29,275
Yes. Completely need it. Yeah. It's it is

1468
00:54:29,275 --> 00:54:29,775
exciting.

1469
00:54:30,074 --> 00:54:32,474
It's really exciting, some of the topics. I

1470
00:54:32,474 --> 00:54:33,835
mean, because when you think about it, if

1471
00:54:33,835 --> 00:54:35,994
you could just write out topics of blackness,

1472
00:54:35,994 --> 00:54:37,914
what will be on your list? Right? And

1473
00:54:37,914 --> 00:54:39,135
that's where I started.

1474
00:54:39,819 --> 00:54:42,219
And it was like, oh, oh, oh, oh,

1475
00:54:42,219 --> 00:54:43,839
this is so cool. So,

1476
00:54:44,539 --> 00:54:47,179
yeah, I'm constantly just working on curriculum and

1477
00:54:47,179 --> 00:54:50,380
curricular efforts. And, hopefully, the next book around,

1478
00:54:50,780 --> 00:54:52,559
Unearthing Genius and Joy,

1479
00:54:53,094 --> 00:54:55,835
will come maybe next year. We'll see.

1480
00:54:56,295 --> 00:54:57,974
Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Just like a

1481
00:54:58,775 --> 00:55:00,855
yeah. Maybe album. Maybe album. I mean, Cornel

1482
00:55:00,855 --> 00:55:02,454
West did that. Right? Took a two year

1483
00:55:02,454 --> 00:55:04,135
off and and made a album, and that's

1484
00:55:04,135 --> 00:55:06,769
hard. That's not easy. That that's rigorous there.

1485
00:55:06,769 --> 00:55:08,869
It's not. It's an intense process.

1486
00:55:09,329 --> 00:55:11,730
It's like, Yacine Bey said on Talib Kweli's

1487
00:55:11,730 --> 00:55:13,809
podcast where where he's like, yo. It'll be

1488
00:55:13,809 --> 00:55:15,109
out when it comes out.

1489
00:55:16,050 --> 00:55:17,989
The book will be out when it's out.

1490
00:55:18,215 --> 00:55:19,974
You know? It's art. You cannot bash it.

1491
00:55:19,974 --> 00:55:22,534
You cannot bash the rules or creativity when

1492
00:55:22,534 --> 00:55:24,454
it's time. It will be just like Kevin

1493
00:55:24,454 --> 00:55:27,355
arrived when it was time. Exactly. He came

1494
00:55:27,574 --> 00:55:28,554
right on time.

1495
00:55:28,855 --> 00:55:30,295
So doctor Muhammad, we like to do a

1496
00:55:30,295 --> 00:55:30,614
thing.

1497
00:55:31,175 --> 00:55:33,594
When we conclude, we say a few words,

1498
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:35,320
and then the three of us together, if

1499
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,039
you don't mind, we say stadov together. Does

1500
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:40,119
that sound good to you? Stadov together? Is

1501
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:41,400
that what you're saying? Yep. We just say

1502
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:41,900
stadov.

1503
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:43,739
Not together. We just say stadov.

1504
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:46,795
That might be an addition. I I like

1505
00:55:46,795 --> 00:55:48,315
that. That might be. I mean, because, you

1506
00:55:48,315 --> 00:55:50,394
know, in some way, we're talking about independence

1507
00:55:50,394 --> 00:55:53,054
versus interdependence. Right? You have meet over together.

1508
00:55:53,594 --> 00:55:57,215
So for our amazing guest, doctor Goldie Mohammed,

1509
00:55:57,594 --> 00:56:00,940
author of Genius. For my partner who is

1510
00:56:00,940 --> 00:56:02,160
always on time,

1511
00:56:02,460 --> 00:56:05,099
Kevin Adams, my name is Hidarba Munoz, and

1512
00:56:05,099 --> 00:56:07,840
we invite you on this beautiful autumn day

1513
00:56:07,980 --> 00:56:10,559
to stay focused, stay taking care of yourself,

1514
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:12,960
stay in your positive imaginations,

1515
00:56:13,755 --> 00:56:14,494
stay joyful,

1516
00:56:14,875 --> 00:56:18,094
and beyond anything else, make sure you always

1517
00:56:19,194 --> 00:56:19,694
stay

1518
00:56:20,234 --> 00:56:20,734
Go.