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I'm Priya Volci. I'm Winona Guo. We're the

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co founders of Choose and co authors of

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Tell Me Who You Are. And this is

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Two Dope Teachers at a Mic. Yeah.

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Yo. What's going on, two Dope Nation? Welcome

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back to two Dope Teachers

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and, Mike. We are the most dangerous podcast

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in the schoolhouse, y'all.

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Thanks for joining us on this summer day.

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I think by the time this episode comes

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out, it'll still be summer.

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Hopefully. We'll find out.

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But welcome back to the show.

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If you are a new listener, which I

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suspect

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we may have some new listeners on this

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episode that we're about to do right now,

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welcome to Tudoep Nation.

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I think our guests will appreciate when I

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say Tudoep Nation is a nation without borders.

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We have very lax citizenship

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requirements. If you just wanna, like, bring your

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dopeness to shine in the world, you are

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welcome.

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No caveats,

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no limitations. You don't gotta prove nothing. Just

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just express a desire

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to be dope. But if you are a

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new listener,

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welcome to the two Dope Teachers and I'm

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Mike podcast. This is where

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we remix the conversation on race, power, and

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education,

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where we try to connect people's stories to

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the things that really matter in education, and

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we always try to give voice to the

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voiceless. My name is Eduardo Munoz, your 2021

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Colorado Teacher of the Year and

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your host for this

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episode.

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If you do the social media thing, you

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can follow us on Instagram

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and on x and on

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blue sky,

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at TudoTeachers. You can also follow us,

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on Facebook,

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or your grandma can follow us on Facebook

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because that's probably,

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the generation that follows us on Facebook. We

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are facebook.com/2dopeteachers

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and, Mike.

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We are on TikTok. You will be disappointed

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if you try to find us on TikTok

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because you will find us, and you will

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find that there's no content because we don't

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know how to TikTok yet.

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But we're gonna get there because I love

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music and I love silliness, and, I think

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we can do it.

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I think my kid will probably have me

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assassinated if I get on TikTok,

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because that will be the most embarrassing thing

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ever. If you wanna reach out to the

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show, you can also hop on our website,

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2dopeteachers.com.

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You can email us 2dopeteachers@gmail.com.

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A couple of quick plugs before we get

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into the show today.

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The first one is I hope everybody

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had a chance to check out the Teachers

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Caucus podcast. My guy,

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John Arthur, Sunshine,

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2021

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Utah teacher of the year, had me and

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Juliano Urtubey,

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our 2021 national teacher of the year on

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to talk a little bit about immigration

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and, some of the issues that schools may

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be seeing as we go into this 2526

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school year. Our guest today is really gonna

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have a lot to contribute to that dialogue.

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There are webinars coming up, y'all. There's just

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amazing things happening on social media to raise

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consciousness, to give you a toolbox,

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and to give you ways to think about

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how we navigate this extremely difficult time for

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all Americans, but in particular, Americans who come

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from,

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marginalized

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and minoritized

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backgrounds. So, last thing I'll say, if you

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wanna support,

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if you wanna support some of our storytelling

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work and the stories we amplify

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here on two Dope Teachers and a Mic,

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feel free to head over to patreon.com/2dopeteachers,

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where for as little

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as $5 a month, you can support this

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work and help us keep the lights on.

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If you don't if you, support us,

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I think

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at the $15 level I feel like we're

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gonna change that, Brian. I think we're gonna

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change that level.

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You will get a two Dope Nation sticker

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that, was designed by our guy Sham, who

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at the time that it was designed, he

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was a high school student,

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who's a very, very skilled,

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street artist. So

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so I wanna

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I wanna open this up,

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right before I introduce my guest to just

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talk about

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where the topic of immigration lives with me

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in this time and in the past. So

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a lot of you, if you've known me

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for a little bit, if you've been listening,

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you know that I was born in The

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United States right right here in the city

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that I podcast from.

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My dad was born in Mexico City and

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became a citizen through marriage in 1974.

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And a lot of my family,

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has moved here from Mexico over the years.

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It's that it's that Mexican life where you

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meet new cousins every time you go to

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a a family gathering. So we're a really

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big family.

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And the first time,

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I remember

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my students

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taking action

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to address

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concerns about,

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what's gonna happen to immigrant students in our

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community,

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was back in 2004

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when,

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the beginning of the undocumented and unafraid movement

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started to emerge,

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where we had students who had been brought

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here as children and

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who essentially had no agency of their own

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to come to The United States. Even if

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we're gonna say

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that this is an illegal act, a baby

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cannot make that decision to engage in an

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illegal act, and we all know that that's

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a very fraught way to describe it.

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But I just remember seeing hundreds of kids

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marching

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down Spear Boulevard outside of the window I

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was teaching

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in and really, really hoping

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that the level of engagement in student led

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activism would continue.

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It's a double edged sword because,

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in order for it to continue, there has

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to continue to be a problem, and that's

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definitely not what we wanted.

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DACA happened, and a lot of my students

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benefited from receiving deferred action,

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for childhood arrivals.

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And I remember

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being very happy about it, but also realizing

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that it wasn't a long term solution,

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that any administration

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could come in

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and

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impose their will and simply revoke that status.

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And now we're hearing

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noises about that, and we're seeing actions being

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tape taken

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where,

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anyone

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who appears to be a foreigner is is

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targeted for deportation, and we've just seen that

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happen over and over again.

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What I'm bringing to you is an incredible

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story

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and

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brought to you with

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an incredible guest that I've had the opportunity

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to meet and to read a little bit

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of his book that is coming out.

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I want you to welcome Brian Christopher.

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Brian teaches English and journalism at Riverside High

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School in Durham, North Carolina. I know. And

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some of y'all are gonna be like,

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North Carolina?

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What? Oh, man. Y'all don't even know. We're

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gonna touch on that. He also advises Riverside's

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bilingual student newspaper, The Pirate's Hook. That is

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such a dope name. I love it. And

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writes about teaching education policy and the power

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of student voices for local and national publications

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like The Washington Post, Raleigh News and Observer,

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Learning for Justice, and Ed Week.

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Author, veteran English teacher,

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amplifier of student voice, Brian Christopher. Welcome to

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two dope teachers and a mic.

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Thank you for having me. It's great to

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be here tonight.

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Yeah, man. I just really,

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I really enjoyed our conversation when we got

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a chance to meet. I think,

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I think that meeting this moment

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is a challenge for a lot of educators.

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We're all worried about our jobs. We're all

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worried about, you know, if a certain noise

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is made from a certain quarters

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that we could find ourselves on the defensive.

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I did a lot of

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work on how we elevate teacher voice and

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protect teachers' right to amplify student voice and

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to teach truth.

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And so learning about this work that you're

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doing,

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has just been really gratifying for me.

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Well, thank you. Yeah. It is you know,

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I wish I wish it wasn't,

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so timely,

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but, it's been

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it's it's been it's been amazing for me

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to watch, you know, student voices and just

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how they carry.

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And, I'm excited to to talk more about

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sort of some of the things that have

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happened in Durham. Yeah. Absolutely.

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So y'all, at the time that this episode

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drops, hopefully, we're able to coincide it with

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the release of Brian's book. The book is

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titled

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stopping the deportation machine, one immigrant student's arrest,

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and the kids who took on Washington to

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get him back.

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This is a

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this is an incredible story

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of what I would kinda character characterize as

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accidental activism. Right? That it didn't happen because

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people wanted to be activists.

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It happened because action needed to be taken

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to address

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the particular situation that this student was in.

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Is it accurate to describe it that way?

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It is accurate.

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Many of the kids and and many of

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the adults

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that are in the story hadn't been,

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I would say, politically active before this happened.

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You know, it was

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because it was a student that happened that

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was arrested that went to our school. It

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was a a hyper local issue,

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and it kind of grew from there. And

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so as the need for activism

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kept growing,

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so did the student and teacher effort to

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try to meet that.

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Yeah. So we're gonna really do our best

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not to give spoilers on the book because

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y'all y'all need to read this book. I've

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had an opportunity to to read some of

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it at this point, and, it is well

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worth it. Let's, start at the beginning.

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Right? So we know kind of what the

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topic of the book is, and,

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we'll we'll kind of

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start with the beginning. And for us, the

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beginning is gonna be tell us a little

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bit about yourself.

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Tell us about where you teach. Tell us

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about kind of what your classroom looks like.

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00:10:29,870 --> 00:10:31,490
So I'm starting year 19

276
00:10:31,950 --> 00:10:33,789
at Riverside High School in Durham, and,

277
00:10:35,309 --> 00:10:38,830
it is a large, comprehensive, traditional high school

278
00:10:38,830 --> 00:10:40,769
with a very diverse student body.

279
00:10:41,549 --> 00:10:44,690
Our our demographics are roughly 40%

280
00:10:45,054 --> 00:10:45,554
Latinx,

281
00:10:46,095 --> 00:10:48,735
30% black, 20%

282
00:10:48,735 --> 00:10:49,235
white.

283
00:10:49,615 --> 00:10:50,355
And so

284
00:10:52,095 --> 00:10:53,795
we have we have a really

285
00:10:54,335 --> 00:10:56,014
sort of good cross section of students that's

286
00:10:56,014 --> 00:10:58,254
pretty representative of Durham as a whole, the

287
00:10:58,254 --> 00:10:59,394
city as a whole.

288
00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:01,830
You know, we are home to Duke University,

289
00:11:02,129 --> 00:11:03,809
and the way our districts are drawn, they

290
00:11:03,809 --> 00:11:06,070
kind of look like pizza slices. And so

291
00:11:06,289 --> 00:11:09,169
our student population has students that live in

292
00:11:09,169 --> 00:11:11,649
a very urban setting, in a somewhat suburban

293
00:11:11,649 --> 00:11:13,490
setting, and we get the fringes of some

294
00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:16,245
rural communities as well. And so so we

295
00:11:16,245 --> 00:11:18,024
really we we have a really

296
00:11:18,565 --> 00:11:19,544
vibrant, diverse,

297
00:11:19,924 --> 00:11:21,365
group of students that come to the building

298
00:11:21,365 --> 00:11:23,924
every day. Yeah. That's awesome. And that's something

299
00:11:23,924 --> 00:11:26,504
that wasn't always the case. Right?

300
00:11:27,204 --> 00:11:28,485
I think I think you and I are

301
00:11:28,485 --> 00:11:30,264
around the same age. And so I think

302
00:11:30,669 --> 00:11:32,750
when you looked at some of these areas

303
00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:34,830
back in the day, it didn't reflect that

304
00:11:34,830 --> 00:11:36,850
kind of diversity. I do remember,

305
00:11:37,470 --> 00:11:39,649
so one thing that really,

306
00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:43,309
resonated with me when when you first reached

307
00:11:43,309 --> 00:11:43,950
out about,

308
00:11:44,995 --> 00:11:46,615
about sort of sharing this story

309
00:11:47,075 --> 00:11:49,554
is I connected back to an article I

310
00:11:49,554 --> 00:11:51,654
read in Newsweek about fifteen years ago,

311
00:11:52,195 --> 00:11:54,514
stating that the Raleigh Durham area had the

312
00:11:54,514 --> 00:11:57,394
fastest growing Latine population in The United States.

313
00:11:57,394 --> 00:11:58,455
And I just remember

314
00:11:59,009 --> 00:12:00,629
I remember just being really surprised,

315
00:12:01,410 --> 00:12:03,250
you know, shocked as a person who's never

316
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:05,649
really left Colorado for a meaningful amount of

317
00:12:05,649 --> 00:12:06,149
time,

318
00:12:07,009 --> 00:12:10,290
that there were places in the Midwest and

319
00:12:10,290 --> 00:12:12,404
in the and on the East East Coast

320
00:12:12,625 --> 00:12:15,205
even that were not like New York

321
00:12:15,825 --> 00:12:16,404
and Philadelphia

322
00:12:17,105 --> 00:12:19,044
and, you know, Florida

323
00:12:19,345 --> 00:12:21,904
that had a lot of Latinos. So you

324
00:12:21,904 --> 00:12:23,825
talked a little bit about the demographics of

325
00:12:23,825 --> 00:12:25,424
the district. Tell us a little bit about

326
00:12:25,424 --> 00:12:26,884
the city and just

327
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,159
what the cultural profile of the city looks

328
00:12:29,159 --> 00:12:30,460
like. What can somebody

329
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:31,340
expect

330
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:32,220
when

331
00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:34,860
they if they take a walk down,

332
00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:37,259
a main street in Durham?

333
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,684
So Durham is a tobacco town historically. Okay.

334
00:12:42,164 --> 00:12:44,985
The Duke family made their money in tobacco.

335
00:12:45,605 --> 00:12:47,125
And around the night around,

336
00:12:47,764 --> 00:12:48,585
1900,

337
00:12:49,205 --> 00:12:50,504
they got hit with an antitrust

338
00:12:51,044 --> 00:12:53,384
suit, and they had to they did diversify

339
00:12:53,605 --> 00:12:55,710
their assets. And so one way they did

340
00:12:55,710 --> 00:12:57,490
that was they bought a college

341
00:12:57,870 --> 00:13:00,190
and they eventually moved it to Durham where

342
00:13:00,190 --> 00:13:02,190
they owned land and built it out to

343
00:13:02,190 --> 00:13:05,649
become this, you know, elite institution. And,

344
00:13:06,694 --> 00:13:07,274
and so

345
00:13:08,294 --> 00:13:10,534
the city's full of tobacco warehouses. So you'll

346
00:13:10,534 --> 00:13:13,034
see a lot of large red brick buildings

347
00:13:13,654 --> 00:13:15,894
that Oh, interesting. Of that over the span

348
00:13:15,894 --> 00:13:16,955
of the twentieth century

349
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:20,789
didn't need to be used to store tobacco

350
00:13:20,789 --> 00:13:21,289
anymore.

351
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:24,889
And so when I first moved down here

352
00:13:24,950 --> 00:13:26,330
in the early two thousands,

353
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:28,090
the city,

354
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:31,529
the downtown especially, was fairly dilapidated.

355
00:13:32,925 --> 00:13:35,245
It was starting to turn, but through the

356
00:13:35,245 --> 00:13:36,225
'80s and '90s,

357
00:13:37,725 --> 00:13:39,644
a lot of the buildings were unused or

358
00:13:39,644 --> 00:13:41,825
were sort of in transition. And

359
00:13:43,245 --> 00:13:45,264
the city has since really kind of reinvented

360
00:13:45,325 --> 00:13:47,245
itself. They turned a lot of those old

361
00:13:47,245 --> 00:13:47,730
warehouses

362
00:13:58,769 --> 00:14:00,309
spike in the workforce. And that

363
00:14:00,615 --> 00:14:02,615
a spike in the workforce. And that was

364
00:14:02,615 --> 00:14:03,514
one of the things

365
00:14:03,894 --> 00:14:04,714
that drew

366
00:14:05,095 --> 00:14:07,815
immigrants. I think originally it was a lot

367
00:14:07,815 --> 00:14:08,875
of immigrant males

368
00:14:09,254 --> 00:14:12,054
to the city, and housing was still somewhat

369
00:14:12,054 --> 00:14:12,554
affordable

370
00:14:12,959 --> 00:14:13,459
then.

371
00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:16,159
The job opportunities were there. Cost of living

372
00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:17,059
was not high.

373
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:18,879
So a lot of a lot of folks

374
00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:20,899
who came in to work through that transition

375
00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:21,939
ended up staying

376
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,459
and raising families.

377
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:27,074
The children of those families started entering the

378
00:14:27,074 --> 00:14:29,894
public schools, and we saw a really

379
00:14:30,274 --> 00:14:30,774
fast,

380
00:14:31,475 --> 00:14:34,754
increase in our Latino student population through the

381
00:14:34,754 --> 00:14:37,554
nineties and the early two thousands. Yeah. And

382
00:14:37,554 --> 00:14:39,815
what's to what extent do you feel

383
00:14:40,355 --> 00:14:42,600
the school system was able to keep up

384
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,620
with this demographic shift

385
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:45,740
and this,

386
00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:48,220
this kind of gradual

387
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,220
increase in

388
00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:53,259
Latina students in in schools?

389
00:14:54,434 --> 00:14:55,414
I know it's difficult.

390
00:14:55,875 --> 00:14:56,375
And,

391
00:14:56,754 --> 00:14:58,195
you know, I mean, it's still happening. You

392
00:14:58,195 --> 00:15:00,674
know, our population our student population Latino student

393
00:15:00,674 --> 00:15:02,375
population is still increasing,

394
00:15:02,995 --> 00:15:04,995
not quite at the rates it was, but

395
00:15:04,995 --> 00:15:05,495
it's,

396
00:15:06,514 --> 00:15:08,159
I I think it took a lot of

397
00:15:08,319 --> 00:15:11,860
really good ESL teachers and program directors. And,

398
00:15:12,079 --> 00:15:13,379
you know, I know when I

399
00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:16,980
first got hired at Riverside in 02/2007,

400
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,519
you know, we had a strong ESL team,

401
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:21,279
and we have continued to have a strong

402
00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:22,659
team of ESL teachers

403
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:23,699
that

404
00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:26,235
that are just really good at

405
00:15:27,254 --> 00:15:29,754
serving students' needs, but then also adapting

406
00:15:30,134 --> 00:15:33,195
as as numbers change, as circumstances change.

407
00:15:34,294 --> 00:15:36,394
And so I think a lot of that,

408
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,600
at least from my vantage point, happened, you

409
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,440
know, on the ground with with really good

410
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:41,339
people in classrooms.

411
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,459
Yeah. No doubt. Yeah. It's it is interesting.

412
00:15:44,919 --> 00:15:47,799
You know, we've had a similar phenomenon happen

413
00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:48,940
in Eastern Colorado.

414
00:15:49,955 --> 00:15:51,154
I have a sense that a lot of

415
00:15:51,154 --> 00:15:53,095
states are like this where you have

416
00:15:53,475 --> 00:15:56,754
a handful of pretty big urban centers where

417
00:15:56,754 --> 00:15:58,434
you have all of the things of an

418
00:15:58,434 --> 00:15:59,414
urban area,

419
00:15:59,794 --> 00:16:00,855
and then you have

420
00:16:01,154 --> 00:16:04,215
areas where so for us, Eastern Colorado

421
00:16:04,690 --> 00:16:07,970
is very much farming country. And as and

422
00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:09,649
this goes back to about the mid to

423
00:16:09,649 --> 00:16:10,470
late nineties.

424
00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:13,910
As you saw,

425
00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:18,129
immigration policies tighten under the Clinton administration. So

426
00:16:18,129 --> 00:16:20,904
you had operation gatekeeper, which closed off the

427
00:16:20,904 --> 00:16:23,144
main ports of entry at the border and

428
00:16:23,144 --> 00:16:26,184
then forced people across the Sonoran Desert, you

429
00:16:26,184 --> 00:16:28,424
know, across the Growler Mountains and places like

430
00:16:28,424 --> 00:16:28,924
that.

431
00:16:29,384 --> 00:16:31,785
They end up in other places. And so

432
00:16:31,785 --> 00:16:32,764
Eastern Colorado

433
00:16:33,225 --> 00:16:33,884
had been,

434
00:16:34,529 --> 00:16:36,149
frankly, a dying community.

435
00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:39,990
People were aging out. The they there weren't

436
00:16:40,049 --> 00:16:42,470
kids being born. And then as farm workers

437
00:16:42,929 --> 00:16:44,789
were unable to return home,

438
00:16:45,329 --> 00:16:46,309
because of immigration

439
00:16:46,690 --> 00:16:47,190
restrictions,

440
00:16:47,735 --> 00:16:49,095
They started to raise families there and it

441
00:16:49,095 --> 00:16:51,735
kinda revitalized. And I remember the reading in

442
00:16:51,735 --> 00:16:53,894
the Newsweek article, and, of course, it's national

443
00:16:53,894 --> 00:16:55,735
media, so hard to know,

444
00:16:56,055 --> 00:16:58,134
what the reality is. But the way they

445
00:16:58,134 --> 00:16:59,675
they really frame this

446
00:17:00,215 --> 00:17:01,035
was that

447
00:17:01,450 --> 00:17:04,429
what Durham what what Raleigh Durham had seen

448
00:17:04,809 --> 00:17:05,789
was a

449
00:17:06,170 --> 00:17:06,829
a real

450
00:17:07,450 --> 00:17:07,950
jump

451
00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:09,549
in, like, a revitalization,

452
00:17:10,009 --> 00:17:11,549
an economic revitalization,

453
00:17:12,329 --> 00:17:12,990
a demographic

454
00:17:13,289 --> 00:17:13,789
revitalization.

455
00:17:14,170 --> 00:17:15,769
All of a sudden, the population got a

456
00:17:15,769 --> 00:17:17,804
little bit younger, and so you had more

457
00:17:17,804 --> 00:17:19,804
people in the workforce. You had more people

458
00:17:19,804 --> 00:17:20,544
bill like,

459
00:17:20,845 --> 00:17:22,924
you know, creating jobs and that kind of

460
00:17:22,924 --> 00:17:26,065
thing. Was that kind of how that turned?

461
00:17:27,484 --> 00:17:29,325
I think so. I think Raleigh hit it

462
00:17:29,325 --> 00:17:32,029
first, and that allowed housing to stay more

463
00:17:32,029 --> 00:17:33,170
affordable in Durham.

464
00:17:33,630 --> 00:17:35,710
And then, you know, Durham has since sort

465
00:17:35,710 --> 00:17:37,250
of shifted the same way.

466
00:17:38,750 --> 00:17:40,430
And then our downtown has a lot of

467
00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:42,450
sort of like city living now. And

468
00:17:42,884 --> 00:17:44,644
we have in the last, like, ten years,

469
00:17:44,644 --> 00:17:45,785
we started to see

470
00:17:46,244 --> 00:17:47,845
this this group of folks who choose to

471
00:17:47,845 --> 00:17:49,445
live in Durham and work in Raleigh, and

472
00:17:49,445 --> 00:17:50,904
that felt that felt like

473
00:17:51,205 --> 00:17:52,484
a kind of a turning point for the

474
00:17:52,484 --> 00:17:52,984
city.

475
00:17:53,365 --> 00:17:53,865
Yeah.

476
00:17:54,244 --> 00:17:56,265
I just love getting this kind of perspective

477
00:17:56,484 --> 00:17:56,984
because

478
00:17:57,285 --> 00:17:59,389
what one thing I've learned in

479
00:17:59,769 --> 00:18:01,369
the three years since I left my own

480
00:18:01,369 --> 00:18:01,869
classroom

481
00:18:02,409 --> 00:18:03,230
is how

482
00:18:03,769 --> 00:18:06,809
every educational space is its own universe. Right?

483
00:18:06,809 --> 00:18:07,789
Like, your classroom

484
00:18:08,169 --> 00:18:09,389
is its own universe

485
00:18:09,769 --> 00:18:12,474
among many, many stars. Right? And so I

486
00:18:12,474 --> 00:18:15,134
just love learning this stuff and and seeing

487
00:18:15,755 --> 00:18:19,035
what what dynamics are at work, what history

488
00:18:19,035 --> 00:18:21,195
is at work at different communities even when

489
00:18:21,195 --> 00:18:22,174
they may seem

490
00:18:22,634 --> 00:18:23,535
as different

491
00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:25,240
as Denver and Durham.

492
00:18:25,619 --> 00:18:27,059
I have a question. Are you wearing a

493
00:18:27,059 --> 00:18:28,359
Durham Bulls T shirt?

494
00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:31,139
I am wearing a Durham Bulls T shirt.

495
00:18:31,139 --> 00:18:32,659
I love that. So I saw Bull Durham

496
00:18:32,659 --> 00:18:33,940
back in the day. It's when I was

497
00:18:33,940 --> 00:18:36,179
just telling one of my friends how great

498
00:18:36,179 --> 00:18:37,755
of a movie it was, and and he

499
00:18:37,755 --> 00:18:39,115
had no idea what I was talking about.

500
00:18:39,115 --> 00:18:41,214
He's a Dominican Haitian dude from

501
00:18:41,515 --> 00:18:43,454
Brooklyn. He he's got no

502
00:18:43,835 --> 00:18:46,795
reference for Bull Durham, but I just love

503
00:18:46,795 --> 00:18:48,575
that you're rocking that shirt tonight.

504
00:18:49,434 --> 00:18:51,210
So the film's a good example of what

505
00:18:51,289 --> 00:18:53,149
what Durham was like before that revitalization.

506
00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:55,250
The Bulls Okay.

507
00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:57,210
The Bulls were a single a team back

508
00:18:57,210 --> 00:18:58,909
then. And one of the biggest

509
00:18:59,369 --> 00:19:01,789
sort of kickstarters to the downtown revitalization

510
00:19:02,329 --> 00:19:04,649
was they they shifted to a triple a

511
00:19:04,649 --> 00:19:06,730
level team, and they built a a newer,

512
00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:07,865
bigger stadium

513
00:19:08,244 --> 00:19:10,325
downtown next to a huge set of of

514
00:19:10,325 --> 00:19:12,644
tobacco warehouses. Oh, no way. And now, you

515
00:19:12,644 --> 00:19:14,325
know, from that, they really just, like, they

516
00:19:14,325 --> 00:19:15,865
built it out from the stadium,

517
00:19:16,325 --> 00:19:19,065
and and they have you'd never recognize

518
00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:20,820
the No way. The footage now if they

519
00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:22,660
were to go back to those places. Yeah.

520
00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:24,420
Man, they need a sequel. Anyway, so it

521
00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:25,940
was just a little piece that I just

522
00:19:25,940 --> 00:19:26,820
noticed and,

523
00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:28,200
super dope.

524
00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:30,440
Okay. Well, let's get to the story,

525
00:19:30,820 --> 00:19:31,154
and

526
00:19:31,715 --> 00:19:34,434
let's talk a little bit about this thing

527
00:19:34,434 --> 00:19:36,055
that happened in your school community.

528
00:19:37,795 --> 00:19:40,434
So I the first thing so take us

529
00:19:40,434 --> 00:19:41,815
through it just kind of

530
00:19:42,195 --> 00:19:43,174
step by step.

531
00:19:43,609 --> 00:19:44,109
Like,

532
00:19:44,410 --> 00:19:46,410
what was the first thing that sort of

533
00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:49,130
occurred, and then what was the succession of

534
00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:50,349
events that followed?

535
00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:53,369
So I think I think we should probably

536
00:19:53,369 --> 00:19:54,830
start at 2014.

537
00:19:55,049 --> 00:19:56,830
Okay? And that's when

538
00:19:57,704 --> 00:20:00,265
Riverside, like a lot of schools, we noticed

539
00:20:00,265 --> 00:20:01,085
an influx

540
00:20:01,625 --> 00:20:02,125
of

541
00:20:02,585 --> 00:20:06,265
of kids entering our ESL program that that

542
00:20:06,265 --> 00:20:08,284
looked like a direct result of,

543
00:20:09,224 --> 00:20:12,279
sort of an increase in border crossings of

544
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:12,779
unaccompanied

545
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:13,660
minors

546
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,080
due to gang violence in El Salvador and

547
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,500
Honduras, particularly Honduras in 2014.

548
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,320
Wilden, the main character in my story, was

549
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,019
one of those kids. Okay.

550
00:20:25,785 --> 00:20:27,404
So he was 16 years old

551
00:20:27,705 --> 00:20:29,625
when when he was he was at a

552
00:20:29,625 --> 00:20:32,605
soccer field in his hometown in Honduras. And,

553
00:20:34,984 --> 00:20:36,525
a leader of the local gang

554
00:20:36,825 --> 00:20:37,325
basically

555
00:20:37,705 --> 00:20:39,720
threatened to threaten to kill him.

556
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,200
And so so he was faced with this

557
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,159
impossible decision of staying home or, you know,

558
00:20:45,159 --> 00:20:47,179
risking his life or leaving.

559
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,559
And so his parents quickly arranged for him

560
00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:52,119
to leave. And and he took the journey.

561
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,200
You know, he he made his journey from

562
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,565
from Honduras to North Carolina that summer.

563
00:20:57,184 --> 00:20:57,424
He,

564
00:20:57,984 --> 00:20:59,605
he enrolled it at Riverside

565
00:21:00,304 --> 00:21:00,804
and

566
00:21:01,184 --> 00:21:01,684
he,

567
00:21:02,544 --> 00:21:04,565
he kind of dove right in and

568
00:21:05,105 --> 00:21:07,125
he was a very willing and eager student.

569
00:21:07,505 --> 00:21:08,005
He,

570
00:21:09,019 --> 00:21:11,179
he worked really hard to learn English. He

571
00:21:11,179 --> 00:21:13,679
joined he joined soccer teams in the area,

572
00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:16,000
made a lot of friends. And then,

573
00:21:17,259 --> 00:21:18,940
you know, I was teaching English at the

574
00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:22,035
time, and the journalism teacher who ran this

575
00:21:22,035 --> 00:21:25,255
awesome newspaper program was retiring in 2015.

576
00:21:25,555 --> 00:21:26,055
And,

577
00:21:26,434 --> 00:21:27,795
you know, I have you know, I was

578
00:21:27,795 --> 00:21:30,035
a communications major. I thought I wanted to

579
00:21:30,035 --> 00:21:32,195
do to student journalism. I had taught a

580
00:21:32,195 --> 00:21:33,894
couple of his, like, intro prerequisite

581
00:21:34,355 --> 00:21:34,855
classes.

582
00:21:35,394 --> 00:21:35,634
And,

583
00:21:36,619 --> 00:21:37,279
and so

584
00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:40,140
he he helped transition me to the position

585
00:21:40,140 --> 00:21:41,660
as he was on his way out. And,

586
00:21:42,619 --> 00:21:44,539
and so he retired, and I took over

587
00:21:44,539 --> 00:21:47,039
his newspaper program in 2015, 'sixteen.

588
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:50,720
And it was 01/28/2016,

589
00:21:52,315 --> 00:21:54,875
when, you know, we we started class like

590
00:21:54,875 --> 00:21:57,115
we always do. And I had the agenda

591
00:21:57,115 --> 00:21:58,394
on the board. We had all these story

592
00:21:58,394 --> 00:21:59,855
deadlines we were working on.

593
00:22:00,555 --> 00:22:02,154
I gave my announcements, and then I kind

594
00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:04,174
of said, like, alright. Everybody get to work.

595
00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:06,059
And then I usually at that moment, I

596
00:22:06,059 --> 00:22:08,380
would go find my editors. And in 2016,

597
00:22:08,380 --> 00:22:09,980
when I was brand new to to running

598
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:10,720
this program,

599
00:22:11,099 --> 00:22:12,539
I did that to check-in with them, and

600
00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:13,740
then I also did that so that they

601
00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:15,660
could remind me whatever I forgot to tell

602
00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:17,039
the rest of the kids. And

603
00:22:18,085 --> 00:22:19,325
the the mood was a little different that

604
00:22:19,325 --> 00:22:20,144
day because

605
00:22:20,605 --> 00:22:23,484
because they said, like, we're we're getting like,

606
00:22:23,484 --> 00:22:25,404
we're getting word that that a student was

607
00:22:25,404 --> 00:22:27,264
arrested on his way to school this morning

608
00:22:27,724 --> 00:22:28,384
by ICE.

609
00:22:29,004 --> 00:22:31,244
And, I don't think any of us knew

610
00:22:31,244 --> 00:22:33,359
exactly what to make of it on that

611
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:34,420
Thursday morning.

612
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,920
It felt really big. And as that day

613
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,920
went on and then kind of word started

614
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:40,579
to travel,

615
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,880
and by the next day, we met again

616
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,160
and said, like, well, you know, we have

617
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,640
a plan in place for our upcoming print

618
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,579
edition, but we cannot cover this.

619
00:22:49,015 --> 00:22:50,554
And so we pivoted

620
00:22:50,855 --> 00:22:53,734
and we put some assignments in place. And,

621
00:22:53,734 --> 00:22:55,174
you know, we just said, let's let's go

622
00:22:55,174 --> 00:22:56,794
see what we can find and

623
00:22:57,494 --> 00:22:59,815
let's run with it because clearly people were

624
00:22:59,815 --> 00:23:01,894
talking about it. And and as the days

625
00:23:01,894 --> 00:23:03,575
went on from there, it was part of

626
00:23:03,575 --> 00:23:05,789
a larger effort. There were some raids happening

627
00:23:05,789 --> 00:23:06,609
in our community

628
00:23:06,990 --> 00:23:10,109
that had gotten so significant that there was

629
00:23:10,109 --> 00:23:11,970
a noticeable difference in attendance

630
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:16,130
in classrooms with large concentrations of Latino students.

631
00:23:16,269 --> 00:23:17,950
We knew that that this was something we

632
00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:18,769
couldn't ignore.

633
00:23:19,134 --> 00:23:20,255
Yeah. But we also knew that it was

634
00:23:20,255 --> 00:23:21,634
something we couldn't get wrong.

635
00:23:22,095 --> 00:23:24,095
Yeah. And so you talked a little bit

636
00:23:24,095 --> 00:23:24,994
about your perspective

637
00:23:25,454 --> 00:23:27,554
and sort of your lived experiences with immigration.

638
00:23:27,775 --> 00:23:30,575
And, you know, mine are very different in

639
00:23:30,575 --> 00:23:31,075
that

640
00:23:31,375 --> 00:23:33,389
I was I was born and raised in,

641
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:35,730
in the Midwest. You know, I went to

642
00:23:36,029 --> 00:23:38,029
a small high school in a very affluent,

643
00:23:38,029 --> 00:23:39,490
very white suburb of Cleveland,

644
00:23:40,029 --> 00:23:43,149
and immigration was not something that directly touched

645
00:23:43,149 --> 00:23:44,829
my life. And as a result, I knew

646
00:23:44,829 --> 00:23:46,769
very little about immigration policy.

647
00:23:47,224 --> 00:23:49,224
So as the kids were were covering the

648
00:23:49,224 --> 00:23:49,724
story,

649
00:23:50,345 --> 00:23:51,884
I had to start reading up on

650
00:23:52,505 --> 00:23:53,724
on the issue as well,

651
00:23:54,105 --> 00:23:55,705
you know, mostly to know if if they

652
00:23:55,705 --> 00:23:57,225
were doing it right. You know, as a

653
00:23:57,225 --> 00:23:58,605
as a journalism teacher,

654
00:23:58,904 --> 00:23:59,945
you've got to read and edit all their

655
00:23:59,945 --> 00:24:01,559
stuff, then you got to check it accuracy

656
00:24:01,559 --> 00:24:03,319
too. And and I had to I had

657
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:05,079
to start doing homework to know that that

658
00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:06,619
we were being accurate because,

659
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:08,839
you know, the the topic was high stakes.

660
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:09,339
And

661
00:24:10,039 --> 00:24:11,720
and, you know, this this student who was

662
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,319
arrested, like, this is a story we had

663
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:15,325
we had to get right. Yeah. And I

664
00:24:15,325 --> 00:24:16,705
wanna name really quickly

665
00:24:18,125 --> 00:24:18,625
listeners.

666
00:24:21,164 --> 00:24:23,265
Brian Brian, this didn't happen

667
00:24:23,565 --> 00:24:24,305
this year.

668
00:24:25,164 --> 00:24:25,664
Right?

669
00:24:25,965 --> 00:24:27,025
This didn't happen

670
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:28,549
two years

671
00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:30,549
ago. This is so

672
00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:33,090
as a lot of us as a lot

673
00:24:33,090 --> 00:24:33,910
of educators

674
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:34,870
and

675
00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:37,029
school systems have been

676
00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:40,049
scrambling to figure out how to keep kids

677
00:24:40,049 --> 00:24:41,910
safe in this era,

678
00:24:43,945 --> 00:24:44,765
I think there's

679
00:24:45,384 --> 00:24:47,625
a lot of discussion that makes it seem

680
00:24:47,625 --> 00:24:49,325
like a kid getting

681
00:24:50,904 --> 00:24:51,404
arrested

682
00:24:52,984 --> 00:24:54,285
and marked for deportation

683
00:24:54,904 --> 00:24:56,904
is like this new thing that is unique

684
00:24:56,904 --> 00:24:57,884
to the current administration.

685
00:24:59,089 --> 00:25:01,190
What you're sharing with us is that

686
00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:04,309
in some communities, this has been a threat

687
00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:05,829
for many, many years.

688
00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:08,470
Wilden was arrested during the Obama administration

689
00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:09,430
during,

690
00:25:10,049 --> 00:25:13,154
an effort called Operation Border Guardian. And And

691
00:25:13,154 --> 00:25:15,234
the reason he was arrested was he met

692
00:25:15,234 --> 00:25:15,894
the criteria,

693
00:25:16,835 --> 00:25:18,755
and some of which were he had crossed

694
00:25:18,755 --> 00:25:20,855
the border and had since turned 18.

695
00:25:21,154 --> 00:25:22,615
So he had missed a court date,

696
00:25:22,994 --> 00:25:25,315
under the advice of an attorney that turned

697
00:25:25,315 --> 00:25:27,279
out to be, you know, maybe not the

698
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:27,940
best thing.

699
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,279
And he he had an active deportation order

700
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:33,039
that triggered when he missed his court date.

701
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:34,980
And so so he met the criteria

702
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:36,019
and

703
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,240
as a result was arrested sort of as

704
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,984
he walked out his door on his way

705
00:25:39,984 --> 00:25:41,524
to school one morning.

706
00:25:42,384 --> 00:25:43,664
This has been a thing that's been a

707
00:25:43,664 --> 00:25:46,005
threat to communities for a while.

708
00:25:46,784 --> 00:25:48,144
The other thing I wanna put a pin

709
00:25:48,144 --> 00:25:50,005
in and just, like, point out to people

710
00:25:50,065 --> 00:25:50,964
is that

711
00:25:51,424 --> 00:25:52,484
you were teaching

712
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:54,589
this moment. Right?

713
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:55,869
Like, as,

714
00:25:56,490 --> 00:25:58,490
you know, sort of as a journalism teacher,

715
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:00,109
and it just makes me think of

716
00:26:00,570 --> 00:26:01,309
the challenge

717
00:26:01,849 --> 00:26:03,309
of engaging in authentic

718
00:26:03,849 --> 00:26:06,750
student centered instruction in schools these days.

719
00:26:08,065 --> 00:26:10,005
Sometimes the curriculum is the world.

720
00:26:10,465 --> 00:26:10,965
And,

721
00:26:11,664 --> 00:26:13,845
sometimes the skills that you need

722
00:26:14,144 --> 00:26:16,144
are those that you're actually putting to work

723
00:26:16,144 --> 00:26:17,825
immediately. And I just gotta take a moment

724
00:26:17,825 --> 00:26:19,904
and shout out miss Griggs, who is my

725
00:26:19,904 --> 00:26:21,205
journalism one teacher,

726
00:26:21,585 --> 00:26:24,029
my first year in high school, who taught

727
00:26:24,029 --> 00:26:25,710
me a lot of the things that you

728
00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:27,230
are thinking about right now and who I

729
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:28,690
think is actually partially responsible

730
00:26:29,869 --> 00:26:30,769
for this podcast.

731
00:26:31,150 --> 00:26:32,990
But I think that I think that taking

732
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:35,170
this moment to really teach is really powerful.

733
00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:37,470
I think the next thing I wanna ask

734
00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:40,134
you so the students probably had this you

735
00:26:40,134 --> 00:26:42,154
know, so you sensed a shift

736
00:26:42,535 --> 00:26:44,455
in mood, and you started to get kind

737
00:26:44,455 --> 00:26:46,875
of these whisperings that that this had happened.

738
00:26:47,095 --> 00:26:49,095
You start covering this. You make the decision

739
00:26:49,095 --> 00:26:51,174
that the students and you make the decision

740
00:26:51,174 --> 00:26:52,315
to cover this story.

741
00:26:52,855 --> 00:26:54,075
So how did

742
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:56,130
how did the

743
00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:58,930
work on sharing the story

744
00:26:59,789 --> 00:27:00,190
become

745
00:27:01,070 --> 00:27:01,890
how do we

746
00:27:02,269 --> 00:27:02,769
respond

747
00:27:03,070 --> 00:27:05,549
to this issue? How do we act? So

748
00:27:05,549 --> 00:27:07,650
when we decided our coverage plan,

749
00:27:07,954 --> 00:27:10,275
we knew we needed to to cover it

750
00:27:10,275 --> 00:27:11,654
from a news perspective.

751
00:27:12,035 --> 00:27:14,454
And so so we assigned a couple kids,

752
00:27:16,194 --> 00:27:17,494
one of whom was bilingual,

753
00:27:18,355 --> 00:27:20,434
to to cover the arrest and sort of

754
00:27:20,434 --> 00:27:22,680
the ripple effects of that arrest. And

755
00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:25,940
then my editors also, you know, they had

756
00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:27,000
some bigger questions.

757
00:27:27,779 --> 00:27:29,880
Their biggest question was, well, why can't

758
00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:31,880
this student graduate?

759
00:27:32,339 --> 00:27:35,255
He was a second semester senior who was

760
00:27:35,255 --> 00:27:36,934
a good student. He was on pace to

761
00:27:36,934 --> 00:27:37,434
graduate,

762
00:27:37,735 --> 00:27:40,795
and he very much, I think, surprised

763
00:27:41,335 --> 00:27:44,075
the kids because he he never came across

764
00:27:44,134 --> 00:27:46,455
as what anybody would view a problem. And

765
00:27:46,455 --> 00:27:48,934
so their very, very simple question was why

766
00:27:48,934 --> 00:27:50,235
can't Wilden graduate

767
00:27:51,009 --> 00:27:52,950
regardless of his immigration status?

768
00:27:53,410 --> 00:27:54,849
You know, we we we were all going

769
00:27:54,849 --> 00:27:56,150
to a public school where

770
00:27:56,529 --> 00:27:58,210
it's pretty widely accepted that, you know, we

771
00:27:58,210 --> 00:28:00,130
teach whoever comes through our door. They are

772
00:28:00,130 --> 00:28:01,269
entitled to an education.

773
00:28:01,970 --> 00:28:02,470
And

774
00:28:02,944 --> 00:28:05,664
that even though he was undocumented and even

775
00:28:05,664 --> 00:28:07,904
though there was an active deportation order, he

776
00:28:07,904 --> 00:28:09,285
was still entitled to that

777
00:28:09,664 --> 00:28:12,565
education. Yeah. So while some of their classmates

778
00:28:12,625 --> 00:28:13,125
were

779
00:28:13,505 --> 00:28:15,365
doing the interviews and gathering information,

780
00:28:16,144 --> 00:28:17,365
they started asking

781
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,299
that other question of why can't he graduate?

782
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,460
And nobody could give them a good answer.

783
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,220
We had these very

784
00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:27,019
interesting,

785
00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:30,680
somewhat contradictory policies at work between immigration and

786
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,180
education

787
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:34,214
where, you know, students were being

788
00:28:34,994 --> 00:28:36,694
arrested and set to be deported.

789
00:28:37,234 --> 00:28:37,734
But

790
00:28:38,514 --> 00:28:40,914
the Department of Education had had a long

791
00:28:40,914 --> 00:28:41,414
standing

792
00:28:42,194 --> 00:28:42,694
precedent

793
00:28:43,234 --> 00:28:45,174
through the Plyler case that

794
00:28:45,714 --> 00:28:46,615
any student

795
00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:49,039
is entitled to a fair and appropriate public

796
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:49,539
education.

797
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,600
And so so it was it was very

798
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:52,100
contradictory.

799
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:55,279
And that simple, simple question that they were

800
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:55,779
asking,

801
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,180
I think, really put their finger on that.

802
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,734
We'll find, some information on this case and,

803
00:29:02,134 --> 00:29:04,214
drop it in the episode notes, and we'll

804
00:29:04,214 --> 00:29:06,214
share that with you because this is a

805
00:29:06,214 --> 00:29:06,954
time where

806
00:29:07,255 --> 00:29:09,515
knowing precedent would really be,

807
00:29:10,934 --> 00:29:12,154
would really be important.

808
00:29:12,534 --> 00:29:13,034
So

809
00:29:13,494 --> 00:29:15,095
I always shift over to this. So I

810
00:29:15,095 --> 00:29:17,230
came into teaching. And, again, I think you

811
00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:19,630
and I, probably entered teaching within the same

812
00:29:19,630 --> 00:29:22,049
few years. There was always a lot of

813
00:29:22,349 --> 00:29:25,789
caution and concern about about controversy and student

814
00:29:25,789 --> 00:29:27,490
activism and those kinds of things.

815
00:29:27,869 --> 00:29:29,490
As you watch students

816
00:29:29,950 --> 00:29:31,170
ask these questions

817
00:29:31,845 --> 00:29:32,585
and find

818
00:29:33,204 --> 00:29:34,105
this contradictory

819
00:29:35,605 --> 00:29:36,984
information in response,

820
00:29:37,924 --> 00:29:40,404
what started to happen for you as a

821
00:29:40,404 --> 00:29:42,345
teacher? Was there anything that started

822
00:29:42,724 --> 00:29:44,484
to shift or rumble in the back of

823
00:29:44,484 --> 00:29:46,424
your mind about what this could lead to?

824
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,019
It did.

825
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,700
You know, I was not

826
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,559
one of the teachers who sort of led

827
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,000
this advocacy effort. Yeah. There were other teachers

828
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,619
who knew Willdan more personally.

829
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,355
There were community members and and organizations in

830
00:30:01,355 --> 00:30:03,534
town that really took up this cause.

831
00:30:04,075 --> 00:30:05,914
And, you know, I I should be clear

832
00:30:05,914 --> 00:30:08,095
that I had very little to do with

833
00:30:08,394 --> 00:30:11,595
with what they accomplished. Yeah. I was I

834
00:30:11,595 --> 00:30:14,014
was very much working behind my students.

835
00:30:14,609 --> 00:30:17,269
And as I helped them gather information,

836
00:30:18,690 --> 00:30:19,990
learned enough to

837
00:30:20,529 --> 00:30:22,470
to eventually start taking action myself.

838
00:30:23,089 --> 00:30:25,809
And so from from my position in, you

839
00:30:25,809 --> 00:30:27,029
know, in the whole system,

840
00:30:28,235 --> 00:30:29,455
I was pretty safeguarded

841
00:30:31,355 --> 00:30:33,434
by by talking with colleagues and and by

842
00:30:33,434 --> 00:30:35,515
messaging what I was doing saying, like, we're

843
00:30:35,515 --> 00:30:36,815
trying we're trying to accurately

844
00:30:37,355 --> 00:30:39,355
get accurate information, and we're trying to share

845
00:30:39,355 --> 00:30:41,519
this with our community because because we know

846
00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:44,160
it's an important and sensitive topic. Yeah. And

847
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:44,640
so the,

848
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:46,340
so I think the unbiased

849
00:30:47,119 --> 00:30:49,380
journalism teacher shtick really,

850
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,100
really safeguarded me Yeah.

851
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,880
Especially early on. Yeah. And I think this

852
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,619
really points

853
00:30:57,164 --> 00:30:57,664
to

854
00:30:58,365 --> 00:31:01,164
how necessary it is that we have truth

855
00:31:01,164 --> 00:31:01,664
tellers,

856
00:31:02,845 --> 00:31:04,545
in in our society.

857
00:31:05,085 --> 00:31:07,965
So for you navigating this, I really appreciate

858
00:31:07,965 --> 00:31:09,105
what you said about,

859
00:31:10,009 --> 00:31:12,649
how others were really, you know, at the

860
00:31:12,649 --> 00:31:14,569
forefront of this work, and you were in

861
00:31:14,569 --> 00:31:15,950
a position to really

862
00:31:16,649 --> 00:31:18,970
support your students in doing this kind of

863
00:31:18,970 --> 00:31:20,669
thing. Was there a blowback

864
00:31:21,049 --> 00:31:22,509
with towards teachers

865
00:31:22,970 --> 00:31:23,710
in the community

866
00:31:24,384 --> 00:31:25,285
who were supporting

867
00:31:25,904 --> 00:31:28,565
this this young person and the students who

868
00:31:28,625 --> 00:31:30,404
were advocating on his behalf?

869
00:31:31,984 --> 00:31:34,085
Durham is a very progressive community.

870
00:31:35,105 --> 00:31:35,765
I think

871
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:39,299
the the political affiliation of most of our

872
00:31:39,299 --> 00:31:39,799
residents

873
00:31:40,660 --> 00:31:41,380
made this

874
00:31:41,779 --> 00:31:42,840
I think it helped

875
00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:45,460
it helped the advocacy take off in a

876
00:31:45,460 --> 00:31:48,180
way that it probably wouldn't have in in

877
00:31:48,180 --> 00:31:50,865
other places. Yep. You know, one of the

878
00:31:50,944 --> 00:31:52,384
one of the things that really stood out

879
00:31:52,384 --> 00:31:53,845
to me about this particular

880
00:31:54,144 --> 00:31:56,785
moment was it unified our our student body

881
00:31:56,785 --> 00:31:58,625
and our community in a way that that

882
00:31:58,625 --> 00:32:00,565
not a lot of things can.

883
00:32:00,865 --> 00:32:02,625
Yeah. You know, one of the tricky things

884
00:32:02,625 --> 00:32:04,304
about working in a really diverse or really

885
00:32:04,304 --> 00:32:05,444
diverse school

886
00:32:05,904 --> 00:32:06,404
is

887
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,460
it's hard to find those sort of quintessential

888
00:32:09,919 --> 00:32:10,419
unifying

889
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:13,039
experiences that every kid wants to be a

890
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:15,519
part of. Yep. You know, like, lots of

891
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:17,359
kids wanna go to the homecoming football game,

892
00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:19,119
but lots of them don't too. It's just

893
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,305
not their it's not their scene. Not everybody

894
00:32:21,305 --> 00:32:22,125
plays sports.

895
00:32:22,744 --> 00:32:23,244
Right.

896
00:32:23,625 --> 00:32:25,325
And and this was one where,

897
00:32:25,705 --> 00:32:27,384
you know, we had we had students of

898
00:32:27,384 --> 00:32:30,184
all races and ethnicities. We had freshmen through

899
00:32:30,184 --> 00:32:32,424
senior. All of them seem to care about

900
00:32:32,424 --> 00:32:34,490
this on some level. And, you know, some

901
00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:36,190
were more vocal than others, but

902
00:32:36,649 --> 00:32:38,250
but I think I think that strength in

903
00:32:38,250 --> 00:32:41,549
numbers really started to resonate come come March.

904
00:32:41,929 --> 00:32:43,690
Esther, you know, it had been about eight

905
00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:44,750
weeks, and

906
00:32:45,129 --> 00:32:45,869
and things

907
00:32:46,865 --> 00:32:48,404
things started to take off.

908
00:32:48,705 --> 00:32:49,205
Yeah.

909
00:32:49,744 --> 00:32:51,744
Yeah. And, you know, one of the things

910
00:32:51,744 --> 00:32:52,945
I wanted to ask you is kind of

911
00:32:52,945 --> 00:32:54,705
the impact on students on you and the

912
00:32:54,705 --> 00:32:56,865
community. I think that really what you just

913
00:32:56,865 --> 00:33:00,005
shared really speaks volumes around that, around how

914
00:33:00,509 --> 00:33:01,009
particularly

915
00:33:01,869 --> 00:33:02,369
now,

916
00:33:03,950 --> 00:33:04,450
where

917
00:33:05,070 --> 00:33:07,970
social media tends to be our civic center.

918
00:33:08,029 --> 00:33:08,690
But, unfortunately,

919
00:33:09,549 --> 00:33:12,190
we we can find our own spaces there

920
00:33:12,190 --> 00:33:13,730
and not have to deal with difference.

921
00:33:14,029 --> 00:33:15,630
School is one of those places where we

922
00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:16,244
have the opportunity

923
00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:18,184
to transcend difference

924
00:33:18,805 --> 00:33:21,444
and find common cause, particularly when it comes

925
00:33:21,444 --> 00:33:23,644
to students in the community. Like, I I

926
00:33:23,765 --> 00:33:26,644
I'm not surprised that students came together regardless

927
00:33:26,644 --> 00:33:28,744
of their own backgrounds to support this person.

928
00:33:29,365 --> 00:33:30,345
How was

929
00:33:30,805 --> 00:33:31,289
this

930
00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:32,350
deportation

931
00:33:32,809 --> 00:33:33,309
challenged?

932
00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:35,789
You mentioned that

933
00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:38,109
looking at the conflicting policies

934
00:33:38,490 --> 00:33:38,990
around,

935
00:33:39,609 --> 00:33:40,990
immigration and education,

936
00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:43,450
that that was kind of where the question

937
00:33:43,450 --> 00:33:46,330
started asking. How is it challenged, and how

938
00:33:46,330 --> 00:33:48,515
is it ultimately stopped? So the title actually

939
00:33:48,515 --> 00:33:50,355
comes from a conversation I had with with

940
00:33:50,355 --> 00:33:53,714
a congressman's assistant in Washington. And and I

941
00:33:53,714 --> 00:33:54,214
think

942
00:33:54,914 --> 00:33:56,275
I think a lot of that the the

943
00:33:56,275 --> 00:33:57,654
groundwork for that conversation

944
00:33:59,154 --> 00:34:01,349
sort of came about in March. You know,

945
00:34:01,349 --> 00:34:02,950
I mentioned it had been about eight weeks,

946
00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:05,190
and the advocacy efforts really started to take

947
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:08,010
off. And then, the weekend of March 18,

948
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:10,469
news broke that he was set to be

949
00:34:10,469 --> 00:34:12,789
deported that weekend, that he was going to

950
00:34:12,789 --> 00:34:14,650
board a flight and he was gonna leave.

951
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:15,530
And

952
00:34:15,994 --> 00:34:17,914
there was a lot of what felt like

953
00:34:17,914 --> 00:34:19,054
last ditch movement

954
00:34:19,594 --> 00:34:20,655
to to organize

955
00:34:21,195 --> 00:34:21,695
downtown,

956
00:34:22,074 --> 00:34:22,735
to to

957
00:34:23,035 --> 00:34:26,155
to to gather around our local conquer our

958
00:34:26,155 --> 00:34:27,375
our US representatives

959
00:34:27,675 --> 00:34:30,235
offices in Durham, and to really apply as

960
00:34:30,235 --> 00:34:33,710
much pressure as organizers and advocates and students

961
00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:35,630
and all of us, you know, knew how

962
00:34:35,630 --> 00:34:37,389
to do. And so it was that it

963
00:34:37,389 --> 00:34:39,889
was that Friday night. Folks stayed

964
00:34:40,349 --> 00:34:44,269
late Friday night demanding answers from representative GK

965
00:34:44,269 --> 00:34:44,769
Butterfield

966
00:34:45,405 --> 00:34:46,065
in Washington.

967
00:34:46,445 --> 00:34:46,945
And

968
00:34:47,244 --> 00:34:48,525
I wanna say it was after it was

969
00:34:48,525 --> 00:34:49,025
late.

970
00:34:49,485 --> 00:34:51,405
And one of his staff members came out

971
00:34:51,405 --> 00:34:54,125
and read a statement that mister Butterfield had

972
00:34:54,125 --> 00:34:56,765
issued that he was working tirelessly, hoping to

973
00:34:56,765 --> 00:34:57,585
find a solution,

974
00:34:58,045 --> 00:34:59,664
didn't have conclusive information

975
00:34:59,965 --> 00:35:02,489
at that moment. And so so we we

976
00:35:02,489 --> 00:35:04,489
thought it was gonna end. And, you know,

977
00:35:04,489 --> 00:35:06,010
I was devastated for the kids, and I

978
00:35:06,010 --> 00:35:07,630
didn't know what I was gonna tell them

979
00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:08,190
afterwards.

980
00:35:08,809 --> 00:35:10,110
Twenty four hours later,

981
00:35:10,809 --> 00:35:13,610
news broke that GK Butterfield had worked through

982
00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:14,190
the night

983
00:35:14,614 --> 00:35:15,174
with the,

984
00:35:15,974 --> 00:35:17,974
assistant secretary of Homeland Security at the time,

985
00:35:17,974 --> 00:35:18,714
Sarah Saldanha.

986
00:35:19,174 --> 00:35:21,655
And they had they had managed to halt

987
00:35:21,655 --> 00:35:23,674
his to pause his deportation.

988
00:35:24,614 --> 00:35:26,795
And so so there was a scramble

989
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:28,589
in Durham that made its way all the

990
00:35:28,589 --> 00:35:29,650
all the way to Washington,

991
00:35:30,029 --> 00:35:31,710
you know, with the help of our with

992
00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:33,650
our of our Congressman GK Butterfield.

993
00:35:34,269 --> 00:35:37,329
And and they they got that particular deportation

994
00:35:37,549 --> 00:35:38,049
halted.

995
00:35:38,349 --> 00:35:40,609
It didn't get him released from detention.

996
00:35:41,065 --> 00:35:41,965
So he remained

997
00:35:42,585 --> 00:35:44,605
in a Georgia detention facility

998
00:35:44,905 --> 00:35:45,405
indefinitely.

999
00:35:46,265 --> 00:35:46,765
Wow.

1000
00:35:47,224 --> 00:35:48,045
And in Georgia.

1001
00:35:48,824 --> 00:35:49,405
In Georgia.

1002
00:35:50,184 --> 00:35:51,864
Yeah. It was at Stewart Detention Center in

1003
00:35:51,864 --> 00:35:52,364
Lumpkin.

1004
00:35:52,905 --> 00:35:53,644
And so

1005
00:35:53,969 --> 00:35:55,409
so we knew we knew what had happened

1006
00:35:55,409 --> 00:35:57,030
was big. What had happened was big.

1007
00:35:57,570 --> 00:35:59,170
But then we also knew that he wasn't

1008
00:35:59,170 --> 00:35:59,670
out.

1009
00:35:59,969 --> 00:36:01,650
And and so we, you know, there were

1010
00:36:01,650 --> 00:36:03,429
additional measures taken and

1011
00:36:03,809 --> 00:36:06,789
additional pressure provided, you know, some pressure applied

1012
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:10,255
to two different parts of the system. And

1013
00:36:10,255 --> 00:36:12,335
then I I had a sort of a

1014
00:36:12,335 --> 00:36:12,835
coincidental

1015
00:36:13,135 --> 00:36:14,914
invitation to go to Washington

1016
00:36:15,454 --> 00:36:19,155
to attend President Obama's final teacher appreciation event.

1017
00:36:19,454 --> 00:36:21,500
Oh, wow. At the White House. Oh, wow.

1018
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:23,260
I used to do it every year. And

1019
00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:24,619
I was not a state teacher of the

1020
00:36:24,619 --> 00:36:26,480
year Mhmm. But I was doing a fellowship

1021
00:36:26,539 --> 00:36:28,400
with the Hope Street group at the time,

1022
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:31,339
doing some work on amplifying teacher voice in

1023
00:36:31,339 --> 00:36:33,280
the policy making process. And

1024
00:36:33,739 --> 00:36:34,559
Hope Street

1025
00:36:35,054 --> 00:36:37,054
happened to get a couple of invitations that

1026
00:36:37,054 --> 00:36:38,574
they offered up to some of their teacher

1027
00:36:38,574 --> 00:36:39,875
fellows. And so

1028
00:36:40,175 --> 00:36:41,934
I had an invitation to go up to

1029
00:36:41,934 --> 00:36:43,855
spend the day in Washington. The event wasn't

1030
00:36:43,855 --> 00:36:46,094
gonna be till the late afternoon. And so,

1031
00:36:46,094 --> 00:36:47,695
you know, I told my students about it.

1032
00:36:47,695 --> 00:36:49,250
I said, is there anything that I can

1033
00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:51,489
do, you know, on your behalf for the

1034
00:36:51,489 --> 00:36:52,469
advocacy efforts?

1035
00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:54,449
And, you know, about five minutes later, they

1036
00:36:54,449 --> 00:36:55,750
handed me a long list

1037
00:36:56,050 --> 00:36:58,769
of people and places I was to. I

1038
00:36:58,769 --> 00:37:00,130
was to go. Well, I took Christopher since

1039
00:37:00,130 --> 00:37:00,869
you asked.

1040
00:37:01,170 --> 00:37:01,670
Yeah.

1041
00:37:01,969 --> 00:37:02,949
That's awesome.

1042
00:37:03,655 --> 00:37:05,414
So so I took a flight flight in

1043
00:37:05,414 --> 00:37:06,695
that morning. I had a a bunch of

1044
00:37:06,695 --> 00:37:08,715
copies of our newspapers in in my backpack,

1045
00:37:08,934 --> 00:37:10,535
and and I delivered them,

1046
00:37:11,335 --> 00:37:13,095
you know, in in the various offices of

1047
00:37:13,095 --> 00:37:14,555
of senators and representatives.

1048
00:37:15,175 --> 00:37:16,474
And, mister Butterfield's

1049
00:37:16,775 --> 00:37:18,615
assistant, you know, sat and talked with me

1050
00:37:18,615 --> 00:37:19,355
for a while.

1051
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:21,359
And Butterfield wasn't available at the time. And

1052
00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:22,639
so I met with his assistant, and,

1053
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,559
we talked a little bit about what the

1054
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:25,460
kids had accomplished.

1055
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,000
You know, keep in mind, you know, Wheldon

1056
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,900
hadn't been released.

1057
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:31,139
But but he said at the time,

1058
00:37:31,704 --> 00:37:33,324
America has designed its government

1059
00:37:33,625 --> 00:37:35,484
to be a very large

1060
00:37:36,264 --> 00:37:39,484
cumbersome machine that is slow moving by design.

1061
00:37:39,864 --> 00:37:41,784
Yeah. He said, but what what your kids

1062
00:37:41,784 --> 00:37:42,525
have done,

1063
00:37:43,144 --> 00:37:44,764
like, it stopped the machine

1064
00:37:45,065 --> 00:37:46,284
if only for a minute.

1065
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:50,179
It was one student in one school,

1066
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,019
but it was also

1067
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,559
quickly becoming sort of the face of a

1068
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:55,059
very,

1069
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,820
tricky immigration policy for the Obama administration.

1070
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,025
Yeah. And and it really did make people

1071
00:38:02,025 --> 00:38:03,885
in in some pretty high places hot.

1072
00:38:05,704 --> 00:38:06,605
That's amazing.

1073
00:38:06,905 --> 00:38:09,324
I'm getting chills, like, just imagining

1074
00:38:09,704 --> 00:38:12,505
the students engaging in this. And then you're

1075
00:38:12,505 --> 00:38:14,984
in there. You get one victory, but you're

1076
00:38:14,984 --> 00:38:16,099
not where,

1077
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:18,960
you need to be for Wheldon and,

1078
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,420
how that kinda works.

1079
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,860
How so you talked a little bit about

1080
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,079
where some of the students who had been

1081
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:28,559
involved in this. One thing I'm curious to

1082
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:30,284
know and then and then I'll ask you

1083
00:38:30,284 --> 00:38:32,045
a little bit about the book. What was

1084
00:38:32,045 --> 00:38:34,304
the impact on students on you

1085
00:38:34,925 --> 00:38:36,525
on the community, both in the school and

1086
00:38:36,525 --> 00:38:37,664
outside of the community

1087
00:38:38,204 --> 00:38:38,704
of

1088
00:38:39,164 --> 00:38:39,984
this entire

1089
00:38:40,444 --> 00:38:40,944
incident?

1090
00:38:41,405 --> 00:38:43,000
Well, I mentioned that it it it had

1091
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,260
a unifying effect that I haven't seen happen

1092
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,480
very often. That's right. You know, I think

1093
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,400
that was the foremost thing that was it's

1094
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,160
probably hard to notice in the moment, but

1095
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:51,900
looking back

1096
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,680
now, you know, it it really it really

1097
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,440
unified our community in a way I haven't

1098
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,284
seen a lot of things do. One One

1099
00:38:58,284 --> 00:38:59,485
of the other impacts was it was, it

1100
00:38:59,485 --> 00:39:00,304
was exhausting.

1101
00:39:00,684 --> 00:39:02,605
We all had our regular lives and then

1102
00:39:02,605 --> 00:39:04,704
we had this other really enormous thing

1103
00:39:05,324 --> 00:39:06,945
happening over the top of it.

1104
00:39:07,244 --> 00:39:08,844
And, and it was, it was true. It

1105
00:39:08,844 --> 00:39:11,324
was hard to juggle all of it. Like

1106
00:39:11,324 --> 00:39:12,684
I said, I wasn't even one of them

1107
00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:14,469
really out on the front lines, you know,

1108
00:39:14,469 --> 00:39:14,969
every

1109
00:39:15,269 --> 00:39:17,670
day applying the pressure. And I still felt

1110
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:19,989
sort of the juggling act that was trying

1111
00:39:19,989 --> 00:39:21,930
to do this in addition to your responsibilities

1112
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:24,070
as a student, as an educator. We were

1113
00:39:24,070 --> 00:39:25,829
dealing with some pretty heavy stuff, and then

1114
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:27,430
the bell would ring. Those kids would leave,

1115
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:29,445
and my ninth graders would come in. Know,

1116
00:39:29,445 --> 00:39:30,405
and I had to get ready to teach

1117
00:39:30,405 --> 00:39:30,905
Shakespeare.

1118
00:39:31,285 --> 00:39:33,045
And so it was great to have a

1119
00:39:33,045 --> 00:39:35,045
lot of people working on it so that

1120
00:39:35,045 --> 00:39:36,885
if if you couldn't get to it that

1121
00:39:36,885 --> 00:39:38,565
day, there were other people that that could

1122
00:39:38,565 --> 00:39:40,885
continue to apply pressure. I think the the

1123
00:39:40,885 --> 00:39:43,380
strength in numbers really helped keep it moving.

1124
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,139
And I think it's I think it's also

1125
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:47,219
exhibit a in

1126
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,420
how when we work collectively and collaboratively

1127
00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:52,960
that it doesn't have to be one person

1128
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:53,460
carrying

1129
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,775
the the entire burden themselves that we distribute

1130
00:39:56,775 --> 00:39:58,855
that and people step in and out as

1131
00:39:58,855 --> 00:40:01,034
they can. And I would actually say that

1132
00:40:01,655 --> 00:40:03,574
I would offer that perhaps the role you

1133
00:40:03,574 --> 00:40:05,514
played maybe is a little bit larger

1134
00:40:05,974 --> 00:40:07,674
than than you feel

1135
00:40:07,974 --> 00:40:08,474
because

1136
00:40:08,889 --> 00:40:11,130
the importance of bearing witness and teaching people

1137
00:40:11,130 --> 00:40:12,650
how to bear witness to things that are

1138
00:40:12,650 --> 00:40:13,949
happening is just like

1139
00:40:14,329 --> 00:40:17,369
it's so precious. Did it shift anything in

1140
00:40:17,369 --> 00:40:19,530
you as a teacher or change any you'd

1141
00:40:19,609 --> 00:40:22,030
you you were already a pretty experienced teacher

1142
00:40:22,244 --> 00:40:23,945
by the time this happened. But

1143
00:40:24,244 --> 00:40:25,065
was there anything

1144
00:40:25,445 --> 00:40:26,985
that you thought shifted

1145
00:40:27,525 --> 00:40:29,445
in your identity as a teacher at this

1146
00:40:29,445 --> 00:40:31,684
time? I think it opened my eyes to

1147
00:40:31,684 --> 00:40:34,184
some experiences that I wasn't fully aware of

1148
00:40:34,839 --> 00:40:37,000
before, you know, things that my students and

1149
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,400
their families had navigated their whole lives that

1150
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,400
I just couldn't couldn't comprehend. You know, when

1151
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,639
I was doing all this, somebody recommended I

1152
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:45,960
read a book called Enrique's Journey by Sonia

1153
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,775
Nazario. And, you know, in the introduction to

1154
00:40:48,775 --> 00:40:50,695
her book, she says something along the lines

1155
00:40:50,695 --> 00:40:53,494
of, you know, perhaps perhaps learning one child's

1156
00:40:53,494 --> 00:40:53,994
experience

1157
00:40:54,614 --> 00:40:57,494
will open readers' eyes to to a much

1158
00:40:57,494 --> 00:40:58,394
larger issue.

1159
00:40:58,855 --> 00:41:01,359
And her book was amazing, number one. And

1160
00:41:01,359 --> 00:41:02,800
then I I saw a lot of those

1161
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,679
same parallels as I watched and learned of

1162
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:06,179
one

1163
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:08,960
Riverside student's journey in and out of of

1164
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,679
our immigration system as well. It's so powerful.

1165
00:41:11,679 --> 00:41:14,000
And, folks, like, one of the things that

1166
00:41:14,235 --> 00:41:15,614
it just felt so appropriate

1167
00:41:15,914 --> 00:41:16,414
to

1168
00:41:16,954 --> 00:41:17,934
share this story

1169
00:41:18,315 --> 00:41:19,215
is that,

1170
00:41:20,075 --> 00:41:21,375
you know, I think the humility

1171
00:41:22,315 --> 00:41:25,035
that you're expressing right now, it's it's really

1172
00:41:25,035 --> 00:41:27,599
powerful because it's it's that I just need

1173
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:30,000
to know more, and I just need to

1174
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,680
open my eyes to things that are happening

1175
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,019
and always be receptive to learning. I think

1176
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:36,800
we never know everything. We always have an

1177
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,340
opportunity to have our

1178
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,944
perspectives broadened, and I think that's kind of

1179
00:41:40,944 --> 00:41:41,525
what you're,

1180
00:41:42,144 --> 00:41:43,525
what you're showing us today.

1181
00:41:43,905 --> 00:41:45,585
Alright. Let's talk a little bit about the

1182
00:41:45,585 --> 00:41:47,424
book. How did the book come about? You

1183
00:41:47,424 --> 00:41:49,125
had mentioned when we first met

1184
00:41:49,505 --> 00:41:50,005
that

1185
00:41:50,385 --> 00:41:52,224
I did not set out to write a

1186
00:41:52,224 --> 00:41:52,724
book,

1187
00:41:53,184 --> 00:41:55,119
did not set out to do this. Although

1188
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:57,119
you're an English teacher, so I I feel

1189
00:41:57,119 --> 00:41:59,519
like the writing bug was somewhere rattling around

1190
00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:00,339
there. Right?

1191
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:02,980
What was it

1192
00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:05,300
that kind of led you

1193
00:42:05,839 --> 00:42:08,239
to agree to document the story? And then

1194
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:09,539
what is it that you hope

1195
00:42:09,875 --> 00:42:11,635
will come of this effort by you and

1196
00:42:11,635 --> 00:42:12,295
your community?

1197
00:42:12,835 --> 00:42:14,355
Yeah. I think my students very much led

1198
00:42:14,355 --> 00:42:17,074
me to this story when we were covering

1199
00:42:17,074 --> 00:42:18,295
it. And then I think

1200
00:42:18,755 --> 00:42:20,855
their refusal to write the book themselves

1201
00:42:21,714 --> 00:42:22,739
led me back to it.

1202
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:25,380
I I I wrote a little bit about

1203
00:42:25,539 --> 00:42:27,699
You should write this, mister. Mister, you should

1204
00:42:27,699 --> 00:42:29,619
write this. Yes. Quite quite the opposite, actually.

1205
00:42:29,619 --> 00:42:30,900
But, you know, I I had written a

1206
00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:31,800
little bit about

1207
00:42:32,099 --> 00:42:34,420
I'd written some things about what happened for

1208
00:42:34,420 --> 00:42:36,260
some different teacher outlets. You know, I did

1209
00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:38,105
a I did a series of blog posts

1210
00:42:38,105 --> 00:42:40,204
for the National Council of Teachers of English,

1211
00:42:41,065 --> 00:42:41,964
you know, about

1212
00:42:42,344 --> 00:42:44,824
about the the student advocacy. It was called

1213
00:42:44,824 --> 00:42:47,224
when learning gets personal. And, and then I

1214
00:42:47,224 --> 00:42:48,905
wrote a p I wrote a feature for

1215
00:42:48,905 --> 00:42:51,539
learning for justice. It was teaching tolerance back

1216
00:42:51,539 --> 00:42:52,019
then,

1217
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:53,719
titled Walking Undocumented

1218
00:42:54,099 --> 00:42:54,500
when,

1219
00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:56,039
you know,

1220
00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:59,300
after things had played out. And, I had

1221
00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:00,980
done some writing about it. And,

1222
00:43:02,180 --> 00:43:04,820
through doing those pieces, I really felt like

1223
00:43:04,820 --> 00:43:07,015
there's a book. There's a book here. You

1224
00:43:07,015 --> 00:43:09,894
know, local and national media covered things as

1225
00:43:09,894 --> 00:43:11,974
they happened. And, you know, Wheldon had done

1226
00:43:11,974 --> 00:43:14,054
some media appearances, but nobody had told the

1227
00:43:14,054 --> 00:43:15,434
story in one place.

1228
00:43:15,735 --> 00:43:17,574
And, you know, I felt like my students

1229
00:43:17,574 --> 00:43:19,019
were the people that that could do it.

1230
00:43:19,579 --> 00:43:21,579
So I was bugging I bugged them saying,

1231
00:43:21,579 --> 00:43:22,700
like, you need to write like, you need

1232
00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:24,140
to write it all. Like, tell the whole

1233
00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:24,640
story.

1234
00:43:26,940 --> 00:43:28,699
And they were starting college. They they had

1235
00:43:28,780 --> 00:43:31,019
their lives had moved to different places. And

1236
00:43:31,019 --> 00:43:32,860
I think eventually they got tired of telling

1237
00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:33,900
me, we're not gonna do a miss C.

1238
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:35,075
Like, we're just we're not gonna do it.

1239
00:43:35,075 --> 00:43:36,434
And then I happened to be at a

1240
00:43:36,434 --> 00:43:36,934
conference,

1241
00:43:37,875 --> 00:43:41,255
journalism, like a scholastic journalism conference in January.

1242
00:43:41,474 --> 00:43:43,255
It was March 2018.

1243
00:43:43,474 --> 00:43:44,295
I was presenting

1244
00:43:44,755 --> 00:43:47,155
about how to run, how to advise a

1245
00:43:47,155 --> 00:43:48,375
bilingual student

1246
00:43:48,750 --> 00:43:50,829
publication, even if you're not bilingual, because I'm

1247
00:43:50,829 --> 00:43:51,329
not.

1248
00:43:51,789 --> 00:43:53,230
And so it was, you know, it was

1249
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:54,369
a classroom full of

1250
00:43:54,750 --> 00:43:57,010
students and some journalism educators.

1251
00:43:58,110 --> 00:43:59,789
And a former student and I were co

1252
00:43:59,789 --> 00:44:01,674
presenting it, and we were talking about sort

1253
00:44:01,674 --> 00:44:03,034
of like the mechanics of what it looks

1254
00:44:03,034 --> 00:44:05,114
like. And then we were sharing some of

1255
00:44:05,114 --> 00:44:07,034
our, like, impactful stories or when when it

1256
00:44:07,034 --> 00:44:10,234
felt impactful to to have bilingual coverage. And

1257
00:44:10,234 --> 00:44:12,635
Wilden's arrest was one of those examples. You

1258
00:44:12,635 --> 00:44:14,074
know, it was it was one slide of

1259
00:44:14,074 --> 00:44:16,315
probably 15 in our, you know, thirty five

1260
00:44:16,315 --> 00:44:17,135
minute presentation.

1261
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:19,030
And we had a lot more we wanted

1262
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:21,349
to say with the remaining time. But when

1263
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:22,550
we got to that slide and then when

1264
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:24,710
we moved on, hands started shooting up around

1265
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:26,710
the room. And kids wanted to know, like,

1266
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:28,550
what happened to this guy? And so we

1267
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:31,109
started answering questions, and just more questions kept

1268
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:32,170
coming. And

1269
00:44:32,505 --> 00:44:34,684
but it it kinda derailed our presentation,

1270
00:44:36,025 --> 00:44:38,025
but it also validated to me that idea

1271
00:44:38,025 --> 00:44:39,545
of, like, okay. Like, there's a story to

1272
00:44:39,545 --> 00:44:41,784
tell here to an audience wider than than

1273
00:44:41,784 --> 00:44:42,844
our local community.

1274
00:44:43,385 --> 00:44:45,005
So it was around that time when,

1275
00:44:45,304 --> 00:44:46,450
you know, I kinda told the kids. I

1276
00:44:46,450 --> 00:44:47,490
said, I think I think I wanna take

1277
00:44:47,490 --> 00:44:48,930
it on if you're not going to. And

1278
00:44:48,930 --> 00:44:50,769
then I reached out to Wilden, and he

1279
00:44:50,769 --> 00:44:52,950
was supportive of the idea. And then we

1280
00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:54,690
we started meeting for a lot of coffees,

1281
00:44:54,690 --> 00:44:56,450
and he started, you know, telling me a

1282
00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:58,289
lot of things. I'm just looking at some

1283
00:44:58,289 --> 00:45:00,050
of the pictures you shared, and one of

1284
00:45:00,050 --> 00:45:01,335
them is, in fact, the two of you

1285
00:45:01,335 --> 00:45:03,815
sitting having coffee. That's awesome. And,

1286
00:45:04,454 --> 00:45:07,114
I hope that later in life, students will

1287
00:45:07,494 --> 00:45:07,994
center

1288
00:45:08,375 --> 00:45:10,394
the fact that they have stories to tell.

1289
00:45:10,534 --> 00:45:12,775
But, you know, I I just really have

1290
00:45:12,775 --> 00:45:14,635
so much appreciation for you,

1291
00:45:15,289 --> 00:45:17,210
you know, saying that, no. This story should

1292
00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:19,050
be told. You should tell it. But then

1293
00:45:19,050 --> 00:45:20,809
if you don't tell it, how are we

1294
00:45:20,809 --> 00:45:22,969
gonna get this story out here? What is

1295
00:45:22,969 --> 00:45:24,030
it that you

1296
00:45:24,969 --> 00:45:28,030
hope? What's the brightest timeline for this book,

1297
00:45:28,695 --> 00:45:30,775
and its impact? I I think a lot

1298
00:45:30,775 --> 00:45:32,474
about where I'm from and

1299
00:45:32,855 --> 00:45:35,914
just how far removed it's it feels sometimes

1300
00:45:36,375 --> 00:45:36,775
to,

1301
00:45:37,255 --> 00:45:38,954
just how far removed this issue

1302
00:45:39,335 --> 00:45:41,515
can feel from from some communities.

1303
00:45:41,815 --> 00:45:44,360
And I don't think it means that people

1304
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,099
don't care.

1305
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,239
Sure. I think that they just I think

1306
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,119
there's more to be learned. And I would

1307
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:53,180
really love for for this story to

1308
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:54,860
to just

1309
00:45:55,215 --> 00:45:56,355
elevate the conversations

1310
00:45:57,055 --> 00:45:58,755
we're having about immigration

1311
00:45:59,375 --> 00:45:59,875
and

1312
00:46:00,255 --> 00:46:02,355
to make them a little bit more informed.

1313
00:46:02,815 --> 00:46:04,255
I don't know if it's going to change

1314
00:46:04,255 --> 00:46:06,595
minds. People seem to be pretty set.

1315
00:46:07,375 --> 00:46:09,135
But I do think that they could have

1316
00:46:09,135 --> 00:46:11,339
a more informed and nuanced conversation

1317
00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:14,460
if if they really learn what happened

1318
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:16,139
to this kid,

1319
00:46:17,559 --> 00:46:18,940
you know, at at this moment.

1320
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:20,599
Yeah. And I would really

1321
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,319
I I love that takeaway, and I would

1322
00:46:23,319 --> 00:46:23,819
really

1323
00:46:24,204 --> 00:46:25,585
encourage that to be the mindset

1324
00:46:25,885 --> 00:46:26,704
of anybody

1325
00:46:27,644 --> 00:46:29,724
as they pick up this book and and

1326
00:46:29,724 --> 00:46:30,784
share it with others.

1327
00:46:31,164 --> 00:46:33,424
So we are not in 2016

1328
00:46:33,644 --> 00:46:35,905
anymore. We're in 2025.

1329
00:46:36,204 --> 00:46:36,704
And

1330
00:46:37,269 --> 00:46:39,670
I think a person would have to be

1331
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:43,190
under a rock to not realize that what

1332
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:44,170
Willdan experienced

1333
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:47,050
was being experienced continuously

1334
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:50,630
even before, during, and after his arrest. But

1335
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:51,130
now

1336
00:46:51,664 --> 00:46:54,964
it does feel like there's a renewed determination

1337
00:46:55,184 --> 00:46:57,605
and fewer of the checks and balances

1338
00:46:57,905 --> 00:46:59,605
that that were activated,

1339
00:47:00,385 --> 00:47:01,764
on Wilden's behalf.

1340
00:47:02,385 --> 00:47:04,239
What did you learn from this event and

1341
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,800
from telling this story, and how do you

1342
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,900
think they might be able to inform

1343
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,840
our actions as educators going forward in a

1344
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:12,900
challenging time?

1345
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,519
I think the first thing I learned was

1346
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:16,019
that

1347
00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:18,784
whether it was 2016 or whether it's now,

1348
00:47:18,784 --> 00:47:20,944
like people still have rights. The more you

1349
00:47:20,944 --> 00:47:23,505
know and understand those rights, the better equipped

1350
00:47:23,505 --> 00:47:25,984
you are to navigate things that that may

1351
00:47:25,984 --> 00:47:27,344
come up. A lot of what I learned

1352
00:47:27,344 --> 00:47:28,724
is, is, is starts with education

1353
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:31,109
And, you know, peep people need to know

1354
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:33,269
what's true and what's not. People don't know

1355
00:47:33,469 --> 00:47:35,829
need to know, you know, what the rights

1356
00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:38,150
are. And I think that that that's number

1357
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:38,550
one.

1358
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:41,130
The other thing I really learned from this

1359
00:47:41,635 --> 00:47:43,235
as it and I think it applies to

1360
00:47:43,235 --> 00:47:46,114
advocacy work in general is, I think, you

1361
00:47:46,114 --> 00:47:46,855
need to

1362
00:47:47,635 --> 00:47:48,855
know the whole system.

1363
00:47:49,155 --> 00:47:51,075
And then maybe even more importantly, you need

1364
00:47:51,075 --> 00:47:53,015
to know your place within that system.

1365
00:47:53,570 --> 00:47:55,170
You need to know what's above and below

1366
00:47:55,170 --> 00:47:56,630
you, and you need to know

1367
00:47:56,929 --> 00:47:58,150
where to go next

1368
00:47:58,610 --> 00:48:00,449
so that so that that it can work

1369
00:48:00,449 --> 00:48:01,190
its way.

1370
00:48:01,730 --> 00:48:03,489
The book's about immigration, but I think that

1371
00:48:03,489 --> 00:48:04,929
could be anything. You know, if if a

1372
00:48:04,929 --> 00:48:06,974
student needs something and and you wanna try

1373
00:48:06,974 --> 00:48:08,574
to meet that need, but you can't do

1374
00:48:08,574 --> 00:48:09,234
it yourself

1375
00:48:09,614 --> 00:48:10,514
Yeah. Then

1376
00:48:11,134 --> 00:48:13,054
you can always just make a phone call

1377
00:48:13,054 --> 00:48:14,674
and and get it done.

1378
00:48:15,134 --> 00:48:16,414
But you can make a phone call to

1379
00:48:16,414 --> 00:48:17,934
someone who then can make a phone call,

1380
00:48:17,934 --> 00:48:19,534
and it, you know, it it can play

1381
00:48:19,534 --> 00:48:20,670
its way out that way.

1382
00:48:21,230 --> 00:48:23,250
You know, I I couldn't call president Obama,

1383
00:48:23,710 --> 00:48:26,109
but, you know, we learned who to contact

1384
00:48:26,109 --> 00:48:26,849
that eventually

1385
00:48:27,389 --> 00:48:28,049
could perhaps

1386
00:48:28,510 --> 00:48:29,569
get in his ear.

1387
00:48:29,869 --> 00:48:31,710
And and so I think knowing where we

1388
00:48:31,710 --> 00:48:34,030
were at in a very complex system allowed

1389
00:48:34,030 --> 00:48:36,130
us to to move through the system

1390
00:48:36,594 --> 00:48:36,994
and,

1391
00:48:37,394 --> 00:48:39,175
you know, eventually get to the people

1392
00:48:40,114 --> 00:48:41,574
that we needed to get to.

1393
00:48:42,355 --> 00:48:43,954
You know, my students ended up briefing Congress

1394
00:48:43,954 --> 00:48:44,695
on the issue.

1395
00:48:44,994 --> 00:48:45,815
And so

1396
00:48:46,275 --> 00:48:48,275
over the course of many weeks, you know,

1397
00:48:48,275 --> 00:48:50,515
I got to see that happen in real

1398
00:48:50,515 --> 00:48:51,414
time. And

1399
00:48:51,869 --> 00:48:53,789
that's a blueprint that I have I have

1400
00:48:53,789 --> 00:48:54,289
used

1401
00:48:54,989 --> 00:48:57,069
again and again to try to to try

1402
00:48:57,069 --> 00:48:59,309
to help kids out, you know, with whatever

1403
00:48:59,309 --> 00:49:01,630
they need. That's that's so spot on. And

1404
00:49:01,630 --> 00:49:03,869
when you talk about understanding where you are

1405
00:49:03,869 --> 00:49:06,304
within a system, it's also a like, and

1406
00:49:06,304 --> 00:49:07,585
I think I this is what I hear

1407
00:49:07,585 --> 00:49:10,144
you saying, is is recognizing who the people

1408
00:49:10,144 --> 00:49:13,444
are, right, that you have access to

1409
00:49:13,824 --> 00:49:15,744
that can start to move the needle. And

1410
00:49:15,744 --> 00:49:17,344
then the other piece of it I hear

1411
00:49:17,344 --> 00:49:18,244
is, and

1412
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,359
wherever you are, it's also about identifying what

1413
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:22,980
tools you have at your disposal.

1414
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:23,859
So

1415
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,480
I would like to think that my high

1416
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,619
school drama teacher,

1417
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,340
if something like this happened, would have said,

1418
00:49:30,894 --> 00:49:33,695
you know, we're not lobbyists and we're not

1419
00:49:33,695 --> 00:49:35,855
elected officials, but we can put on a

1420
00:49:35,855 --> 00:49:38,494
play that tells a story. Right? And we

1421
00:49:38,494 --> 00:49:40,735
have these tools at our disposal. I think

1422
00:49:40,735 --> 00:49:43,215
it's just so spot on for your students

1423
00:49:43,215 --> 00:49:44,675
and for you to to recognize

1424
00:49:44,974 --> 00:49:46,355
a moment and saying,

1425
00:49:46,809 --> 00:49:48,170
we have a tool and we have a

1426
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:49,869
mechanism by which to

1427
00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:50,670
act,

1428
00:49:51,210 --> 00:49:53,690
and why don't we start there? And I

1429
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:55,309
love hearing that this has become

1430
00:49:55,849 --> 00:49:56,510
a template

1431
00:49:56,889 --> 00:49:59,144
for your work kinda going forward. And I

1432
00:49:59,144 --> 00:50:01,804
think that'd be my takeaway, y'all, is how

1433
00:50:02,105 --> 00:50:04,045
it's easy to feel like we're really powerless

1434
00:50:04,505 --> 00:50:05,785
in the midst of a lot of things

1435
00:50:05,785 --> 00:50:08,025
that are happening right now. But wherever we

1436
00:50:08,025 --> 00:50:09,945
are, we've got tools. They may not be

1437
00:50:09,945 --> 00:50:11,304
the best tools. They may be a little

1438
00:50:11,304 --> 00:50:13,545
rusty. We may not even we may be

1439
00:50:13,545 --> 00:50:14,989
like, mister Christopher

1440
00:50:15,449 --> 00:50:17,369
and feel like maybe we're not even the

1441
00:50:17,369 --> 00:50:19,309
best people be wielding these tools.

1442
00:50:19,690 --> 00:50:21,449
But here we are. We have them, and

1443
00:50:21,449 --> 00:50:23,610
how do we do something together? And the

1444
00:50:23,610 --> 00:50:25,789
power of students, man, just like

1445
00:50:26,090 --> 00:50:26,590
anything

1446
00:50:27,204 --> 00:50:28,984
student voice and student leadership

1447
00:50:29,364 --> 00:50:31,304
related just makes my heart sing.

1448
00:50:31,764 --> 00:50:32,264
And,

1449
00:50:32,804 --> 00:50:34,885
you know, you didn't really mention anything like

1450
00:50:34,885 --> 00:50:36,424
this in in the conversation,

1451
00:50:36,724 --> 00:50:39,385
but one thing that I would also say

1452
00:50:39,940 --> 00:50:43,239
is that trusting student voice and trusting students

1453
00:50:44,659 --> 00:50:46,119
to process through

1454
00:50:46,579 --> 00:50:47,079
difficult

1455
00:50:47,460 --> 00:50:49,480
situations and following the students,

1456
00:50:49,780 --> 00:50:52,579
that's an act of bravery that there are

1457
00:50:52,579 --> 00:50:55,425
some educators that don't don't engage in that.

1458
00:50:55,425 --> 00:50:57,045
And I say that without judgment.

1459
00:50:57,744 --> 00:50:59,744
But I think that also is a really

1460
00:50:59,744 --> 00:51:01,364
important part that you played,

1461
00:51:02,465 --> 00:51:05,025
in the big picture of the story. Sometimes

1462
00:51:05,025 --> 00:51:06,704
it takes a little leap of faith. But

1463
00:51:06,704 --> 00:51:08,869
when I do try to relinquish control, you

1464
00:51:08,869 --> 00:51:10,789
know, more often than not, the students really

1465
00:51:10,789 --> 00:51:11,929
surpass my expectations.

1466
00:51:12,550 --> 00:51:14,010
And, it's amazing

1467
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:16,809
the answer they get to questions from adults

1468
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:19,050
that adults wouldn't give other adults.

1469
00:51:19,590 --> 00:51:21,110
I don't know if it is the lack

1470
00:51:21,110 --> 00:51:23,744
of context or the lack of background, but,

1471
00:51:23,905 --> 00:51:25,825
you know, there were moments where elected officials

1472
00:51:25,825 --> 00:51:27,125
would tell me, you know, well,

1473
00:51:27,425 --> 00:51:28,885
immigration is a very complicated,

1474
00:51:29,585 --> 00:51:31,125
you know, system and it's,

1475
00:51:31,425 --> 00:51:32,865
we have a, we have a long history

1476
00:51:32,865 --> 00:51:35,125
of trying to best serve, you know, undocumented

1477
00:51:35,425 --> 00:51:37,579
students and, you know, yeah, this and that,

1478
00:51:37,579 --> 00:51:38,940
like a little bit of company line, I

1479
00:51:38,940 --> 00:51:41,099
understand it. You know, like I, as an

1480
00:51:41,099 --> 00:51:41,599
adult,

1481
00:51:42,059 --> 00:51:44,059
I understand where he's coming from. But a

1482
00:51:44,059 --> 00:51:46,140
17 year old doesn't. And so they'll just

1483
00:51:46,140 --> 00:51:47,660
ask the question again. They're saying, Yeah, but

1484
00:51:47,660 --> 00:51:50,355
why can't he graduate? And and it's amazing

1485
00:51:50,355 --> 00:51:52,974
how quickly that exposes some of some of

1486
00:51:52,974 --> 00:51:53,894
some of these injustices.

1487
00:51:54,195 --> 00:51:55,735
I think sometimes that unfiltered,

1488
00:51:56,355 --> 00:51:59,554
you know, reactive approach can sometimes really spur

1489
00:51:59,554 --> 00:52:01,635
action. And if they have an adult to

1490
00:52:01,635 --> 00:52:03,074
kind of guide them and,

1491
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:07,170
and sort of provide resources and context and

1492
00:52:07,170 --> 00:52:08,849
support, like, I think it can be really

1493
00:52:08,849 --> 00:52:09,349
powerful.

1494
00:52:09,730 --> 00:52:11,510
Dang, Brian. You make me miss teaching.

1495
00:52:11,969 --> 00:52:13,410
So where are people gonna be able to

1496
00:52:13,410 --> 00:52:14,150
find the book?

1497
00:52:14,530 --> 00:52:16,469
And then how do people engage

1498
00:52:17,045 --> 00:52:19,204
with your work? I did find the blog

1499
00:52:19,204 --> 00:52:21,545
post in question, When the Learning Gets Personal.

1500
00:52:21,605 --> 00:52:23,684
So I'm gonna link that in, the show

1501
00:52:23,684 --> 00:52:26,805
notes. Y'all gotta really read this and, also

1502
00:52:26,805 --> 00:52:29,605
stumble across some other writings that you've done.

1503
00:52:29,605 --> 00:52:31,530
But how do people support your work? So

1504
00:52:31,530 --> 00:52:33,869
the book's available at all major booksellers online.

1505
00:52:33,929 --> 00:52:35,630
Direct to the publisher, Bloomsbury.

1506
00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:38,809
It's available on Amazon. It's available at your

1507
00:52:38,809 --> 00:52:39,550
local bookstore.

1508
00:52:39,929 --> 00:52:42,250
Indie Bound is a great online resource that

1509
00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:44,489
you can order it online and and your

1510
00:52:44,609 --> 00:52:46,670
you can you can link your local bookstore

1511
00:52:47,125 --> 00:52:49,525
and they'll, you know, they'll get proceeds from

1512
00:52:49,525 --> 00:52:50,885
that sale. It's a great way to support

1513
00:52:50,885 --> 00:52:53,125
your local shop. The, the journalism program that

1514
00:52:53,125 --> 00:52:54,805
I advise, The Pirate's Book, you can check

1515
00:52:54,805 --> 00:52:56,325
us out at thepirate'sbook.com

1516
00:52:56,325 --> 00:52:58,265
or at the pirate's book on social media.

1517
00:52:58,485 --> 00:53:01,285
My own writing is at brianchristopher.com.

1518
00:53:01,285 --> 00:53:02,585
It's Brian with a Y.

1519
00:53:02,909 --> 00:53:04,929
And then, I'm on social media

1520
00:53:05,549 --> 00:53:06,049
briancristo

1521
00:53:06,510 --> 00:53:09,170
and then the number four. On, BlueskyIndex.

1522
00:53:09,469 --> 00:53:11,469
Oh, I see what you did there. Yeah.

1523
00:53:11,469 --> 00:53:13,710
That's it. It's too long, right? It's 11

1524
00:53:13,710 --> 00:53:15,710
letters in my last name. Christopher. And then

1525
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:16,769
on Instagram, it's

1526
00:53:17,469 --> 00:53:19,605
bchristo and the number four. I can send

1527
00:53:19,605 --> 00:53:20,565
all those to you if you wanna add

1528
00:53:20,565 --> 00:53:22,405
it to the notes. Yep. And we will

1529
00:53:22,405 --> 00:53:24,244
also put that in there. I just pulled

1530
00:53:24,244 --> 00:53:26,724
up, the pirates. So wow. School newspaper has

1531
00:53:26,724 --> 00:53:28,985
changed since I was on the school newspaper

1532
00:53:29,045 --> 00:53:30,184
staff. It looks great.

1533
00:53:30,804 --> 00:53:32,324
Brian, Chris, for When I was doing school

1534
00:53:32,324 --> 00:53:33,449
newspaper, we were

1535
00:53:34,409 --> 00:53:36,489
we were still getting pages back individually, and

1536
00:53:36,489 --> 00:53:38,250
we'd have to stack and fold before we

1537
00:53:38,250 --> 00:53:38,750
deliver.

1538
00:53:39,050 --> 00:53:41,550
Oh, wow. So we had the wax machine.

1539
00:53:41,609 --> 00:53:43,690
Like, you remember the I don't maybe I'm

1540
00:53:43,690 --> 00:53:45,849
older that much older than you, but there's

1541
00:53:45,849 --> 00:53:48,010
that wax machine where you had to print

1542
00:53:48,010 --> 00:53:50,184
things, cut them, run them through the machine,

1543
00:53:50,184 --> 00:53:51,944
and then paste them down. Did you do

1544
00:53:51,944 --> 00:53:53,704
that? I think our school was a little

1545
00:53:53,704 --> 00:53:55,545
fancier, and so they had them that they

1546
00:53:55,545 --> 00:53:57,304
paid extra to just to get the to

1547
00:53:57,304 --> 00:53:59,144
get them precut, and we just fold it.

1548
00:53:59,144 --> 00:54:00,984
That's so funny. No. We had to, like,

1549
00:54:00,984 --> 00:54:02,905
we had to do all the layout, and

1550
00:54:02,905 --> 00:54:05,039
then we would take it to a printer,

1551
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:06,400
and then would they, like, print it. But

1552
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,160
that's amazing. Okay. I think we got like,

1553
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,019
we were really excited when we got PageMaker.

1554
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,920
Like, that was really cool. And we're, like

1555
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:12,980
Yes. Wait.

1556
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,579
PageMaker was there when I when I started.

1557
00:54:16,744 --> 00:54:18,585
So I must've I must've missed it. It

1558
00:54:18,585 --> 00:54:20,265
was on one or two of the computers

1559
00:54:20,265 --> 00:54:22,025
that happened to exist in my school at

1560
00:54:22,025 --> 00:54:23,005
that point. So

1561
00:54:23,864 --> 00:54:24,605
that's amazing.

1562
00:54:25,224 --> 00:54:27,304
Well, Brian Christopher, thank you so much for

1563
00:54:27,304 --> 00:54:29,304
joining me on the show tonight. This is

1564
00:54:29,304 --> 00:54:31,079
an incredible story, and,

1565
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:33,320
let's have you back on when,

1566
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,000
you know, when we start getting feedback on

1567
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,160
the book and stuff like that. I'm even

1568
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,480
sort of reflecting on the possibility of doing,

1569
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,555
a Tudo book club around this one. And,

1570
00:54:44,914 --> 00:54:46,434
you know, we tried to do that years

1571
00:54:46,434 --> 00:54:47,875
ago, but I was teaching. I did not

1572
00:54:47,875 --> 00:54:50,594
have the bandwidth to manage that. But folks,

1573
00:54:50,594 --> 00:54:51,494
get the book.

1574
00:54:51,875 --> 00:54:54,114
Follow Brian's work. We'll have it in the

1575
00:54:54,114 --> 00:54:56,914
show notes. And, Brian, just thank you for

1576
00:54:56,914 --> 00:54:58,355
joining us on two Dope Teachers and a

1577
00:54:58,355 --> 00:54:58,855
Mic.

1578
00:54:59,199 --> 00:55:00,480
It's a pleasure to be here. I really

1579
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,480
like the show. I love the conversations you

1580
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,640
have and and the perspectives you bring to

1581
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,800
the to the different topics, and, I just,

1582
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:09,440
I'm glad I could contribute. Well, welcome to

1583
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,795
two Dope Nation, sir. And, and folks, everyone

1584
00:55:12,795 --> 00:55:13,534
out there,

1585
00:55:13,835 --> 00:55:15,835
it's hard times right now. We're going through

1586
00:55:15,835 --> 00:55:18,014
it. We're struggling. We're experiencing

1587
00:55:18,795 --> 00:55:20,175
barrier after barrier,

1588
00:55:20,714 --> 00:55:23,355
high levels of discouragement in in communities and

1589
00:55:23,355 --> 00:55:25,375
in schools and with kids. But

1590
00:55:25,730 --> 00:55:27,910
always know that you always have the opportunity

1591
00:55:27,970 --> 00:55:30,230
to stay healthy. So stay healthy out.