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Hey. Yo. What is good

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to Dope

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Nation?

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What's up, y'all? It's Gerardo Munoz,

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your Elosopher King, your 2021

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Colorado teacher of the year,

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and your very tired podcast host because it

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is wild out here today. Welcome

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to two dope teachers and, Mike. In the

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event that you're a new listener and in

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light of who our guest is today,

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I'm guessing we have some new listeners out

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there. So to all of our new listeners,

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I just wanna say, hey o.

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Welcome to two dope nation.

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Two dope nation is a nation without borders.

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Oh, yeah. We've got those nightmarish open borders

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that our opponents hate so much. And you

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know what? It's working out great. We have

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no citizenship requirements. You just wanna be too

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dope. And you have to be too dope,

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but fortunately, you get to set that definition,

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like we're not the two dope police here,

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and you just join the nation. So if

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you wanna join the two dope nation, feel

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free to follow us on all,

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social media platforms at two Dope Teachers.

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If you are one of the older folks

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who's still using Facebook, I say that because

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I'm using Facebook. It's facebook.com/2dopeteachers

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and a mic. And if you wanna reach

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out to us with show ideas, with feedback,

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with gift cards, with,

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I don't know, a share of your lottery

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winnings, just email us, dodopeteachers@gmail.com.

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We are here for all of it. We

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are here remixing the conversation on race, power,

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and education.

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Really hope you,

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school based professionals,

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especially

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my teachers out there,

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are

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finding

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a way

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to just slow down.

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I am so excited to introduce my guest,

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and we're gonna we're gonna talk a little

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bit about, like, the just

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the auspiciousness,

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the fortuitousness

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that actually brought us together in person a

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couple weeks ago. So we'll talk about that

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in a minute.

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But I wanna introduce,

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my friend, Sakwa Rohany,

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who serves as the executive

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director of Roots Connected, which is a super

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dope organization.

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I

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came across their organization

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on a rebel educator page that I joined

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and met up with some people there. Y'all

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sometimes these networks that spring up to reimagine

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education

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and to really talk about what's authentic and

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what can be real in education

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can be, really powerful. So I met your

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colleague,

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Shireen, who put me in touch with you.

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Roots Connected is an is an initiative

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that Sokhwa

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co founded and launched in 2017

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that is transforming

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schools and workplaces.

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Sokhwa's passion for her work stems from foundational

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belief in the essential oneness of humanity.

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In her role, Sakwa leads RC's strategy

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while also

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supporting the organization in all areas of programming,

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growth and development. SocQuest

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committed to collaborative decision making

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and feels grateful to work alongside a team

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of brilliant, dedicated, supportive, and collaborative humans. I'm

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like, dang, we need this in my job.

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Her vision for roots connected emerged organically after

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over a decade

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of experience

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and learning at Community Roots Charter School in

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Brooklyn, New York.

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The school is a pioneer in the intentionally

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diverse school movement. Sockwa began as a founding

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teacher

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at Community Roots in 02/2006,

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and went on to serve as its director

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of community

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development for nine years.

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Her work focused on engaging staff,

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students and families in the community building processes

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necessary to create intentionally

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integrated and anti bias school communities through staff

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development,

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curriculum support, and innovative family and community programming.

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Charter.

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She's worked with young people and in the

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field

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of community development for over twenty five years.

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Sakwa, I feel like it could be said

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that you just be starting stuff.

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Stuff. That's a true story, that's probably why

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I'm so tired. You just be starting stuff

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in a good way. Like you were a

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founding like teacher at this school, you start

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you've founded roots connected, you just be starting

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stuff all the time. Sakwa Rahani, welcome to

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two Dope Teachers and a mic. How are

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you today?

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Thank you. It's so nice to be here.

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It's so nice to be with you in

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conversation.

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I'm just excited to

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dive in, to share a little and learn

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a little and and all of those good

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things.

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Yeah. No doubt. And so we we had

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this really funny experience a few weeks back

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in,

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the amazing city of Chicago, Illinois.

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We both had the honor of attending the

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Embrace Race National

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check them out and I will actually link

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their website in the show notes along with,

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links to Roots Connected and anything else that

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we need to share.

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It was really funny though, Sakwa. My, my

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director thought I was running a race in

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Chicago.

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She's like, oh, I thought it was called

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the embrace race.

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It's like, yes, we run a five k

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and then we hug.

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That actually that's not a bad idea. We

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need more of that in the world. But

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yeah, so I I had to kind of

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explain what it was, but it was really

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funny because we're we're at the opening plenary

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session

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and I see

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your name and roots connected up on the

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screen. And I'm like and I texted you

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right away. I'm like, are you here?

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We were in a room of, like, 250

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people, and we had met

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remotely, but we hadn't met in person. And,

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yeah, I just suddenly get a text, like,

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are you in this room? I'm like, I

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am in this room in another city that

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neither of us live in. So That's right.

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It was super important. Serendipitous to say the

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least. For sure. And we got to take

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a cool walk with some other, educators by

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the lake and got to hang out and

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chop it up. And,

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that was really fun.

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So I wanna yeah. I wanna kinda dive

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right in. There's so much to talk about

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when it comes to your work and your

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impact and just the things that you're thinking

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about.

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I wanna start with your TED talk. That

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was, and that's linked in the show notes

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everybody. So

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check it out. I think if you are

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an individual of color from the global majority

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who has maybe not the most English sounding

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name, this TED talk is gonna resonate deeply

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with you.

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It's about your name, and this was what

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your colleague

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asked me to, like, look at first and

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say, if you don't do anything else,

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watch Sockwa's TED

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talk. And so I did, and it's moving.

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It's like deeply personal.

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How does that

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story reflect the broader themes of identity formation

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and anti bias education in the classroom for

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you.

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Yeah. Thank you. Thanks so much for,

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for, like, letting my story

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resonate in some sort of way and and

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for for sharing how it did resonate. I

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think that was

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probably for me the,

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the most impactful part. It's like when you

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have a story that has deep impact on

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you and your journey to have the opportunity

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to be able to share it and then

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to share it in that kind of like

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space,

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it just it's very,

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affirming in a lot of ways. And so

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I appreciate the chance to even be able

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to talk about it. But obviously, a lot

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of what I shared was just a vulnerable

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story. It was the story of my own,

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you know, journey with having a name that

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sounds really different, looking really different, having a

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language and a religion and everything that just

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was very different than what's the quote unquote

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norm. And so I think

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at the end of the day, like, very

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bottom line of all of this for me,

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it's just about belonging.

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It's about how we're creating spaces

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for kids,

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to be truly, like, seen and heard and

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valued and honored as who they are, like,

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as a whole human.

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And I think, like,

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belonging is,

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it's not a buzzword,

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but it's really a bridge, you know? It

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isn't soft. It's something that's abstract,

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and it's really the condition that lets

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students

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learn,

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speak up, and thrive ultimately. And so at

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the end of the day,

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that's the piece that I feel the most

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committed to,

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and I think that's what I tried to

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sort of, like, pull out in that or

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dig deeper into,

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in that particular,

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TED Talk. But I think the reality is

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and the research shows that

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as kids belong, as they are seen, as

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they are honored, as they are valued, They

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engage more in their learning. They have fewer

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behavior problems. They persevere through difficulty. They perform

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better overall.

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So again, it's not just like a feel

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good extra. It's really sort of, I believe,

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the foundation

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for education. And it's what at RootsConnected, at

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our core, it's what we're sort of, like,

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committed to is each child really seeing

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the humanity in one another.

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Yeah. I think that's so powerful. And I

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think now that,

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and everyone knows, all my listeners know that

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I work in a central office space now.

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I don't work in the classroom anymore. And

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that's been pretty eye opening

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in a lot of ways because exactly

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what you are

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implying

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is the case, which is that we tend

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to see ideas around belonging,

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around culturally responsiveness,

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around culturally sustaining practices

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as being the soft things that we can

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do once everybody's at grade level.

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Once everybody's

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engaging in grade level texts and tasks, and

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once the

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the assessment

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numbers are better.

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And I love that you're naming this as

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a hard skill,

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the teachers need to develop and the schools

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need to develop and not a soft skill.

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The second thing I wanna really

275
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elevate

276
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in my experience

277
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watching you tell your story.

278
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So you talked about in the TED talk

279
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how

280
00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:18,639
you and correct me if I have this

281
00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:21,940
wrong, but you had kinda grown up

282
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,860
as as a little one,

283
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,799
like, you're you're proud of your name or

284
00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:28,639
at the very least you didn't see anything

285
00:10:28,639 --> 00:10:30,804
wrong with it. It was just your name.

286
00:10:31,024 --> 00:10:34,225
And then to be jolted out of that

287
00:10:34,225 --> 00:10:35,125
by a teacher

288
00:10:35,745 --> 00:10:37,985
and to be kind of forced into this

289
00:10:37,985 --> 00:10:38,644
kind of,

290
00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:41,924
like, upside down world where it's like,

291
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:44,500
I didn't know my name would be a

292
00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:47,059
problem. It's actually sort of the opposite for

293
00:10:47,059 --> 00:10:47,960
me where

294
00:10:48,419 --> 00:10:51,220
I was preemptively given a nickname. Like I

295
00:10:51,220 --> 00:10:52,839
got a nickname immediately

296
00:10:53,139 --> 00:10:55,220
and so it took me until I was

297
00:10:55,220 --> 00:10:57,240
about 20 years old when I had

298
00:10:57,934 --> 00:10:59,934
a professor, a white professor, which I will

299
00:10:59,934 --> 00:11:02,414
name, who told me that and he said

300
00:11:02,414 --> 00:11:05,375
it with this wonderful, like, Bronx Jewish guy

301
00:11:05,375 --> 00:11:08,115
accent. He said, with a name like Gerardo,

302
00:11:08,414 --> 00:11:10,835
you should not be going by Jerry.

303
00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:13,649
And I was like,

304
00:11:14,029 --> 00:11:16,350
well, if Bruce Bassoff says it so, it's

305
00:11:16,350 --> 00:11:18,850
so. But I think that's, like, for me,

306
00:11:19,070 --> 00:11:20,529
if I was still in the classroom,

307
00:11:21,070 --> 00:11:22,590
I think what I would take from your

308
00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:25,710
story is also don't assume that every kid's

309
00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:27,434
name story is the same.

310
00:11:27,815 --> 00:11:29,595
Like, some have never

311
00:11:30,054 --> 00:11:32,694
received an ink inkling that there's anything weird

312
00:11:32,694 --> 00:11:33,674
about their names.

313
00:11:34,054 --> 00:11:34,554
Others

314
00:11:35,254 --> 00:11:37,254
may have a name that they've already been

315
00:11:37,254 --> 00:11:37,754
conditioned

316
00:11:38,294 --> 00:11:40,279
not to love. And so I think that's

317
00:11:40,279 --> 00:11:42,779
where it sits with me is that everybody's

318
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,240
journey with their name, if you come from

319
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,840
a historically marginalized or minoritized group, is gonna

320
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,440
be different and you have to be attended

321
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:51,884
attentive to that.

322
00:11:52,285 --> 00:11:54,845
Yeah. And I think that, like, I my

323
00:11:54,845 --> 00:11:57,725
story happens to be focused on the name.

324
00:11:57,725 --> 00:11:59,804
Right? But there are so many ways that

325
00:11:59,804 --> 00:12:02,125
we are all othered, and I think that's

326
00:12:02,125 --> 00:12:04,384
why that's why the story, I think, resonates

327
00:12:04,445 --> 00:12:06,929
with so many different people because whether it's

328
00:12:06,929 --> 00:12:08,769
your name or it's another part of your

329
00:12:08,769 --> 00:12:09,269
identity,

330
00:12:09,970 --> 00:12:12,370
that either wasn't valued or you were asked

331
00:12:12,370 --> 00:12:15,490
to shift or change, then there's there, I

332
00:12:15,490 --> 00:12:18,289
think that's, to me, that's the value really

333
00:12:18,289 --> 00:12:21,924
of having an anti bias lens on curriculum

334
00:12:21,985 --> 00:12:24,485
and culture, because you're ultimately saying

335
00:12:24,865 --> 00:12:27,125
that we want to try to create spaces

336
00:12:27,184 --> 00:12:29,764
that as much as possible mitigate

337
00:12:30,544 --> 00:12:31,044
the,

338
00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:35,230
mitigate the biases that exist and create the

339
00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:37,070
conditions for people to be able to show

340
00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:39,389
up as their full selves. Right? And I

341
00:12:39,389 --> 00:12:40,129
think, like,

342
00:12:40,670 --> 00:12:41,730
to me, the,

343
00:12:42,670 --> 00:12:44,975
what I love most about anti bias education

344
00:12:45,034 --> 00:12:46,634
is it's not like an add on. It's

345
00:12:46,634 --> 00:12:48,714
not like a, okay, it's 12:30. It's time

346
00:12:48,714 --> 00:12:50,355
to talk about racism or, like, this is

347
00:12:50,355 --> 00:12:52,955
our It's our bias time. Moment. Right? But

348
00:12:52,955 --> 00:12:54,014
it's really, like,

349
00:12:54,394 --> 00:12:56,654
what are how are my morning meeting questions

350
00:12:56,875 --> 00:12:58,735
designed? How am I thinking about,

351
00:12:59,809 --> 00:13:01,490
like, how am I asking the question in

352
00:13:01,490 --> 00:13:03,649
this read aloud? How am I having this,

353
00:13:03,649 --> 00:13:06,050
like, book group discussion? And even if we

354
00:13:06,050 --> 00:13:07,330
don't agree with the book, how am I

355
00:13:07,330 --> 00:13:09,009
making space for kids to be able to,

356
00:13:09,009 --> 00:13:11,970
like, connect to it and think about it?

357
00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:13,664
You know? And so I think it's thinking

358
00:13:13,664 --> 00:13:15,424
about it more as a lens than an

359
00:13:15,424 --> 00:13:16,945
add on is is a really,

360
00:13:17,424 --> 00:13:19,345
I think, makes a lot of sense and

361
00:13:19,345 --> 00:13:22,144
is what I think ultimately from the top

362
00:13:22,144 --> 00:13:24,225
resonates and connects to what you're saying. There's

363
00:13:24,225 --> 00:13:27,024
no one monolith. Like, there's no one way

364
00:13:27,024 --> 00:13:28,325
that everyone experiences

365
00:13:29,029 --> 00:13:32,009
everything, but that there are ways in which

366
00:13:32,070 --> 00:13:33,370
we may need to

367
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:35,929
create the spaces for

368
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:37,929
all humans to be,

369
00:13:38,309 --> 00:13:40,725
like, seen. I mean, this this is what's

370
00:13:41,204 --> 00:13:43,764
so dope about the work that you and

371
00:13:43,764 --> 00:13:45,944
your colleagues at Roots Connected do.

372
00:13:46,324 --> 00:13:50,164
And it's like what I, as a thinker

373
00:13:50,164 --> 00:13:53,544
and an educator, am dying for because

374
00:13:53,924 --> 00:13:57,100
we're always looking at the promising practice. Right?

375
00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,340
We're always looking looking for, here are the

376
00:13:59,340 --> 00:13:59,840
indicators

377
00:14:00,299 --> 00:14:01,679
of, you know,

378
00:14:02,299 --> 00:14:05,279
culturally responsive education. If you're hitting these indicators,

379
00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:07,840
then you're probably doing a good job. And

380
00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:10,154
as you know, both of us have a

381
00:14:10,235 --> 00:14:12,555
lot of education experience between us as you

382
00:14:12,555 --> 00:14:13,055
know,

383
00:14:13,595 --> 00:14:14,095
that

384
00:14:14,634 --> 00:14:15,134
doesn't

385
00:14:15,435 --> 00:14:19,215
often solve the issue. Like, what I wanna

386
00:14:19,675 --> 00:14:20,175
promote

387
00:14:21,995 --> 00:14:24,894
is the opportunity for mindset shift. Right?

388
00:14:25,870 --> 00:14:27,550
Like, for me, somebody asked me at one

389
00:14:27,550 --> 00:14:28,769
point, especially

390
00:14:29,149 --> 00:14:31,230
in light of all these attacks on critical

391
00:14:31,230 --> 00:14:32,050
race theory,

392
00:14:32,509 --> 00:14:33,870
somebody asked me, well, do you think it's

393
00:14:33,870 --> 00:14:36,429
dangerous to, like, proclaim yourself as a critical

394
00:14:36,429 --> 00:14:38,210
race theorist in these days?

395
00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:39,250
And

396
00:14:39,629 --> 00:14:40,850
my response was,

397
00:14:41,345 --> 00:14:42,785
I mean, a little bit, but I don't

398
00:14:42,785 --> 00:14:43,524
have a choice.

399
00:14:43,985 --> 00:14:46,325
It's it's literally how I see the world.

400
00:14:47,024 --> 00:14:50,965
Like, it's literally my lived experience. It's, like,

401
00:14:51,024 --> 00:14:53,585
it's either I do that or erase myself

402
00:14:53,585 --> 00:14:54,325
from existence.

403
00:14:55,024 --> 00:14:55,524
And

404
00:14:55,899 --> 00:14:58,240
so it like, it's about the mindset.

405
00:14:59,019 --> 00:15:00,700
I think the last thing I'll say about,

406
00:15:01,820 --> 00:15:04,379
about names because, like, you had a really

407
00:15:04,379 --> 00:15:05,519
nice segue into,

408
00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:07,519
you know, what

409
00:15:07,995 --> 00:15:10,154
this kind of work really looks like. One

410
00:15:10,154 --> 00:15:11,294
of the things that

411
00:15:11,674 --> 00:15:14,414
I remember so the majority of the students,

412
00:15:15,274 --> 00:15:17,995
that I worked with who had experiences of

413
00:15:17,995 --> 00:15:20,495
people mispronouncing or avoiding their names,

414
00:15:20,875 --> 00:15:21,615
I had

415
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,600
a little bit of an advantage because I

416
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,460
couldn't say Spanish names. Right?

417
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,000
It wasn't until I had a,

418
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,580
a Southeast Asian student,

419
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:32,259
who

420
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:33,790
I I

421
00:15:34,235 --> 00:15:35,675
couldn't say the name. And so I asked

422
00:15:35,675 --> 00:15:36,815
her. I'm like, how

423
00:15:37,274 --> 00:15:39,035
do I say this? She's like, you're gonna

424
00:15:39,035 --> 00:15:39,855
get it wrong.

425
00:15:40,315 --> 00:15:42,075
Just call me this. And I was like,

426
00:15:42,075 --> 00:15:43,695
I would I would love to try.

427
00:15:44,154 --> 00:15:45,215
And that vulnerability

428
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,360
of, like, this is so out so far

429
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,620
out of my comfort zone, and this child

430
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,540
is fully within her rights

431
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:54,919
to laugh at me and that kind of

432
00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:56,919
thing. The vulnerability, I think that was the

433
00:15:56,919 --> 00:15:59,080
first time I actually felt that vulnerability because

434
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,940
it wasn't a language that I speak.

435
00:16:01,485 --> 00:16:04,365
It's easy when 80% of the hard names

436
00:16:04,365 --> 00:16:05,105
quote unquote

437
00:16:05,565 --> 00:16:08,465
are in Spanish because I can say those.

438
00:16:08,684 --> 00:16:09,965
Yeah. But if you give me a name

439
00:16:09,965 --> 00:16:11,825
from a different culture like SACPA,

440
00:16:12,764 --> 00:16:14,845
it makes me feel vulnerable and I'm like,

441
00:16:14,845 --> 00:16:17,429
okay. Like, now I am sharing in this

442
00:16:17,429 --> 00:16:17,929
power.

443
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:20,230
Yeah. I'm glad you said it. There's two

444
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:22,649
things that you mentioned that, I

445
00:16:23,669 --> 00:16:25,589
I just wanna, like, pick up on the

446
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:29,370
you mentioned about mindset shift.

447
00:16:29,794 --> 00:16:32,034
And for us at Roots Connected, a big

448
00:16:32,274 --> 00:16:34,274
like, a framework with which we work in

449
00:16:34,274 --> 00:16:36,914
where we feel change happens, like, we call

450
00:16:36,914 --> 00:16:40,115
it actually the dual process for change, is

451
00:16:40,115 --> 00:16:41,954
that that change needs to be

452
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,240
it's it's twofold, right? It's the internal work.

453
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,639
It's the mindset work. It's the transformation of

454
00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:50,200
the human heart. And then it's also the,

455
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,320
the work around shifting practice. You know, we

456
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,720
think at roots connected that unless those two

457
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,545
things are happening sort of in the cyclical

458
00:16:58,605 --> 00:16:59,105
process,

459
00:16:59,565 --> 00:17:02,125
then we can't change or move things forward.

460
00:17:02,125 --> 00:17:04,365
So there's so often we're working with schools,

461
00:17:04,365 --> 00:17:05,965
and they'll say to us, like, you know,

462
00:17:05,965 --> 00:17:08,545
we've sat in rooms, and we've had conversations

463
00:17:08,765 --> 00:17:11,404
about identity and bias, and, like, we've sat

464
00:17:11,404 --> 00:17:14,159
in that, but then nothing changes in the

465
00:17:14,159 --> 00:17:15,519
classroom. Like, I'm not, I don't know what

466
00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:17,679
I'm supposed to do in the classroom. And

467
00:17:17,679 --> 00:17:19,599
then we have the opposite where it's like,

468
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,819
I've been handed this, like, culturally relevant curriculum,

469
00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:25,140
and I don't, I can't teach it.

470
00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:27,599
I haven't done the internal work in order

471
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,475
to teach it. Right? So I think a

472
00:17:29,475 --> 00:17:29,975
big

473
00:17:30,674 --> 00:17:32,535
way in which we move through

474
00:17:32,835 --> 00:17:35,174
the work that we do in different spaces

475
00:17:35,634 --> 00:17:37,975
is around that constant,

476
00:17:38,515 --> 00:17:41,955
you know, personal transformation, collective transformation, and how

477
00:17:41,955 --> 00:17:44,019
do those two continue to work together?

478
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:48,019
And the other piece you brought up that

479
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,200
really for us is, like, so core is

480
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,220
that we believe that there are these, like,

481
00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:55,299
schools are made up. They're communities

482
00:17:55,679 --> 00:17:58,079
of kids, and they're communities of families, and

483
00:17:58,079 --> 00:17:58,740
they're communities

484
00:17:59,144 --> 00:18:01,465
of faculty. And like we say so often

485
00:18:01,465 --> 00:18:03,785
that usually what's right by kids is right

486
00:18:03,785 --> 00:18:06,025
by grown ups, too. So how do we

487
00:18:06,025 --> 00:18:09,144
continue to, like, make spaces for kids, but

488
00:18:09,144 --> 00:18:11,865
also practice those as adults? If we want

489
00:18:11,865 --> 00:18:14,549
to make spaces of belonging for children, like,

490
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:16,330
how are we creating those spaces

491
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:20,009
in professional development? And it doesn't take, like,

492
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:21,750
a long time. It doesn't have to be

493
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:23,430
the only thing we focus on. But, again,

494
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:25,350
it's like, how is that the lens with

495
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:29,210
which we're creating professional spaces? You know? Yeah.

496
00:18:29,394 --> 00:18:30,134
That's awesome.

497
00:18:31,234 --> 00:18:34,194
I wish that any of the two schools

498
00:18:34,194 --> 00:18:35,875
that I worked for had,

499
00:18:36,355 --> 00:18:38,194
stumbled upon your work and brought you in

500
00:18:38,194 --> 00:18:40,194
to do that work because because I think

501
00:18:40,194 --> 00:18:42,434
too, like, we're we're all processing this stuff,

502
00:18:42,434 --> 00:18:42,835
like, being

503
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:46,470
Yeah. Aspire like if if we take it

504
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:49,049
through the through Paulo Freire's mindset,

505
00:18:49,589 --> 00:18:52,730
we're aspiring to become human. We don't arrive.

506
00:18:52,869 --> 00:18:55,829
So it's a the process of becoming human

507
00:18:55,829 --> 00:18:56,569
is dynamic.

508
00:18:56,954 --> 00:18:59,275
It's not static and it's fluid and it's

509
00:18:59,275 --> 00:19:01,615
nonlinear and, you know, adults,

510
00:19:01,994 --> 00:19:04,875
especially like, you know, a Gen Xer like

511
00:19:04,875 --> 00:19:06,414
me, like, we

512
00:19:06,954 --> 00:19:09,275
didn't have these opportunities to be thinking about

513
00:19:09,275 --> 00:19:11,115
this one when we were kids. And so

514
00:19:11,115 --> 00:19:11,934
there's like

515
00:19:12,380 --> 00:19:14,380
opportunity there. I remember. So you started to

516
00:19:14,380 --> 00:19:15,920
talk a little bit about

517
00:19:16,299 --> 00:19:18,619
teaching through an anti bias lens, and we

518
00:19:18,619 --> 00:19:20,539
started to kinda touch on this a little

519
00:19:20,539 --> 00:19:22,220
bit. And this is something that you've spoken

520
00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:24,720
at length about, that you have,

521
00:19:25,660 --> 00:19:29,234
done such meaningful work. We'll talk about, the

522
00:19:29,234 --> 00:19:30,695
the roots connected frameworks.

523
00:19:31,634 --> 00:19:33,315
All this is gonna be linked to y'all,

524
00:19:33,634 --> 00:19:35,234
because the thing I love about your work

525
00:19:35,234 --> 00:19:37,555
that you do is that while I want

526
00:19:37,555 --> 00:19:41,075
people to contract with y'all and support orgs

527
00:19:41,075 --> 00:19:42,890
like yours, there are things that you you

528
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,230
can start engaging in this mindset shift

529
00:19:45,609 --> 00:19:48,329
Yeah. On your own and nobody's gonna stop

530
00:19:48,329 --> 00:19:50,490
you from changing your mindset. But,

531
00:19:51,049 --> 00:19:52,349
so how does

532
00:19:52,809 --> 00:19:54,970
teaching through an anti bias lens look in

533
00:19:54,970 --> 00:19:55,470
practice?

534
00:19:56,009 --> 00:19:57,525
And then what are some

535
00:19:58,085 --> 00:20:00,265
things that Roots Connected does

536
00:20:00,884 --> 00:20:01,384
to

537
00:20:02,164 --> 00:20:05,125
kinda help schools and educators start embodying that

538
00:20:05,125 --> 00:20:05,625
approach?

539
00:20:06,164 --> 00:20:07,144
Yeah. Thanks.

540
00:20:07,445 --> 00:20:10,164
I think, again, because anti bias education is

541
00:20:10,164 --> 00:20:12,359
a lens, it's it what it looks like

542
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,320
in practice is, like, these small shifts or

543
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,180
small tweaks that actually have big impact. Right?

544
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,039
And so,

545
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,840
you know, an example, we were touring a

546
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:23,340
school,

547
00:20:24,394 --> 00:20:26,875
in early January, and we saw up on

548
00:20:26,875 --> 00:20:29,274
the in the hallway I'm sure this will

549
00:20:29,274 --> 00:20:30,875
resonate with so many people because this is

550
00:20:30,875 --> 00:20:32,315
so common. It's like up in the hallway.

551
00:20:32,315 --> 00:20:34,154
The kids have drawn these beautiful pictures of,

552
00:20:34,154 --> 00:20:35,595
like, what did you do over the break?

553
00:20:35,595 --> 00:20:37,274
You know? Just the question of what'd you

554
00:20:37,274 --> 00:20:38,335
do over the break.

555
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:41,880
And even that simple question, it makes you

556
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,359
think like, how can this possibly be a

557
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,160
barrier for a child? How can the simple

558
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,019
question of what did you do over break

559
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,980
create sort of that barrier to belonging

560
00:20:52,694 --> 00:20:55,095
just by that simple question. So then when

561
00:20:55,095 --> 00:20:58,054
we ask teachers to sort of evaluate or

562
00:20:58,054 --> 00:21:00,554
think about that question or reflect on it,

563
00:21:00,694 --> 00:21:03,494
suddenly they're like, yeah, you're right. That suddenly

564
00:21:03,494 --> 00:21:06,375
makes it, you know, kids, what if it

565
00:21:06,375 --> 00:21:08,940
was a heartbreak? What if, like, this kid

566
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:10,480
went to, you know,

567
00:21:10,779 --> 00:21:12,859
their house up in the mountains and this

568
00:21:12,859 --> 00:21:15,099
kid, like, didn't? Or, like, all of a

569
00:21:15,099 --> 00:21:17,119
sudden you're creating these, like, opportunities

570
00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:18,240
for

571
00:21:18,539 --> 00:21:21,339
barriers to sort of emerge. Right? And so

572
00:21:21,339 --> 00:21:23,595
we always say, like, how do you

573
00:21:24,134 --> 00:21:24,634
instead

574
00:21:24,934 --> 00:21:25,434
create,

575
00:21:26,134 --> 00:21:28,855
like, in that specific situation, if you're putting

576
00:21:28,855 --> 00:21:31,174
an anti bias lens on, you're trying to

577
00:21:31,174 --> 00:21:33,894
think about questions that can increase depth and

578
00:21:33,894 --> 00:21:34,394
vulnerability

579
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,320
and give choice to kids. So it's not

580
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,740
just answer this one question, but you might

581
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:41,960
ask questions like what was something that made

582
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,519
you laugh over the break? Who's someone you

583
00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:46,759
spent some time with? What was a moment

584
00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:48,840
that brought you joy from this break, or

585
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,595
what was an act of service that you

586
00:21:50,595 --> 00:21:52,914
did? And so I think shifting it a

587
00:21:52,914 --> 00:21:54,994
little, first of all, gives entry points. And

588
00:21:54,994 --> 00:21:57,335
as soon as you have choice, you're creating

589
00:21:57,474 --> 00:21:59,714
more opportunity for kids to be able to

590
00:21:59,714 --> 00:22:00,214
engage

591
00:22:00,515 --> 00:22:02,454
in a way that feels right for them.

592
00:22:02,595 --> 00:22:04,775
And then you're making all of those things

593
00:22:05,179 --> 00:22:08,140
okay things that happened, you know, during during

594
00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:10,059
that break time. And so I think it's

595
00:22:10,059 --> 00:22:12,380
just that doesn't change the lesson. It doesn't

596
00:22:12,380 --> 00:22:13,900
make you have to do a whole other,

597
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:16,559
you know, lesson about, you know, what biases,

598
00:22:16,779 --> 00:22:18,079
but it's just it's creating,

599
00:22:18,884 --> 00:22:21,684
the conditions to be able to have a

600
00:22:21,684 --> 00:22:24,164
conversation. So we always talk about how it's

601
00:22:24,164 --> 00:22:26,904
really like those small shifts that can create

602
00:22:27,045 --> 00:22:28,105
larger impact.

603
00:22:29,924 --> 00:22:32,164
Or before launching into a unit, you're about

604
00:22:32,164 --> 00:22:34,150
to study history and you're about study a

605
00:22:34,150 --> 00:22:35,529
period of time in history,

606
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:38,230
maybe just take a little bit of time

607
00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:40,789
and allow kids to think about their own

608
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:43,109
identity and how their lens is going to

609
00:22:43,109 --> 00:22:45,450
impact the way that they're learning about this

610
00:22:45,509 --> 00:22:47,849
history, you know? So who I am

611
00:22:49,875 --> 00:22:52,194
is going to deeply impact how I think

612
00:22:52,194 --> 00:22:54,674
about what we're learning. And so making space

613
00:22:54,674 --> 00:22:56,674
for kids to just be able to, like,

614
00:22:56,674 --> 00:22:58,595
honor that and say, like, I'm coming from

615
00:22:58,595 --> 00:23:00,759
this place, I'm coming from this place, you're

616
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:03,799
suddenly opening up a conversation that has to

617
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:05,900
do with perspective and has to do with,

618
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:09,000
just the lived reality of the humans that

619
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,420
are in that space, for example, you know?

620
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:11,980
Yeah.

621
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,140
I laugh because,

622
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,335
when you talked about

623
00:23:16,815 --> 00:23:18,434
these, what did you do over break?

624
00:23:18,974 --> 00:23:19,634
I remember,

625
00:23:20,575 --> 00:23:21,954
a colleague of mine,

626
00:23:22,255 --> 00:23:24,755
instead of doing that question, asked the question,

627
00:23:25,375 --> 00:23:28,174
what's a song you heard repeatedly this summer

628
00:23:28,174 --> 00:23:29,234
that you hated?

629
00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:33,470
And that's and so and it just launched

630
00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:36,109
into these great, like, because all the kids

631
00:23:36,109 --> 00:23:37,549
could be like, oh my gosh, there are

632
00:23:37,549 --> 00:23:40,029
these stupid, like, songs that got written and,

633
00:23:40,670 --> 00:23:42,509
it is those small shifts. And so what

634
00:23:42,509 --> 00:23:44,450
I hear you kinda saying is that

635
00:23:45,065 --> 00:23:47,805
it isn't even a matter of

636
00:23:48,664 --> 00:23:51,325
coming up with some sort of seismic action

637
00:23:51,865 --> 00:23:54,904
as an individual classroom teacher that can start

638
00:23:54,904 --> 00:23:56,045
to move the needle.

639
00:23:56,505 --> 00:23:58,684
Is it fair to say it's just about

640
00:23:59,069 --> 00:24:01,950
asking your yourself the question of who is

641
00:24:01,950 --> 00:24:04,669
excluded by this activity and how do we

642
00:24:04,669 --> 00:24:05,809
disrupt that exclusion?

643
00:24:06,509 --> 00:24:08,990
Yeah. And I think that even like, starting

644
00:24:08,990 --> 00:24:10,845
with ourselves, like, does,

645
00:24:11,404 --> 00:24:13,484
like, what is this, who is this question

646
00:24:13,484 --> 00:24:16,224
written? Like what perspective is writing this question?

647
00:24:17,244 --> 00:24:19,484
If I had an amazing summer or an

648
00:24:19,484 --> 00:24:21,164
amazing break, then yeah, I want to know

649
00:24:21,164 --> 00:24:23,724
what everybody's break is. But if I like

650
00:24:23,724 --> 00:24:26,525
experienced deep loss over this break, that might

651
00:24:26,525 --> 00:24:28,490
not be the question that I wanna answer,

652
00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:31,150
right? So I think, like, it's also examining

653
00:24:31,289 --> 00:24:33,849
our own perspectives. I think often, like, asking

654
00:24:33,849 --> 00:24:36,009
others, like, do you feel like there's other

655
00:24:36,009 --> 00:24:38,009
questions that are missing here? Is there anything

656
00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:39,929
that I'm missing? We only have our own

657
00:24:39,929 --> 00:24:42,585
perspective, right? And then it's also like

658
00:24:43,125 --> 00:24:44,964
the other thing that we've done. You asked,

659
00:24:44,964 --> 00:24:46,744
like, how do we do this with schools?

660
00:24:46,884 --> 00:24:49,044
Schools engage with us in a few different

661
00:24:49,044 --> 00:24:50,184
ways. Like, they either,

662
00:24:50,964 --> 00:24:52,804
hire us to do coaching with them. We

663
00:24:52,804 --> 00:24:54,644
have what we call institutes with our which

664
00:24:54,644 --> 00:24:55,784
are more like intense

665
00:24:56,099 --> 00:24:57,000
learning spaces,

666
00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:00,279
where we marry sort of theory and practice.

667
00:25:00,420 --> 00:25:02,420
To us, it's really important that people walk

668
00:25:02,420 --> 00:25:04,259
away with not just being like, Yeah, that's

669
00:25:04,259 --> 00:25:06,339
amazing. I want to do that. But, like,

670
00:25:06,339 --> 00:25:07,160
real practical,

671
00:25:07,539 --> 00:25:09,059
how do I, like, what's one thing I

672
00:25:09,059 --> 00:25:10,994
can do? Even if it's just this thing,

673
00:25:10,994 --> 00:25:12,275
let's say your point that I want to

674
00:25:12,275 --> 00:25:13,715
move the needle on, how do I do

675
00:25:13,715 --> 00:25:14,434
that? So,

676
00:25:14,914 --> 00:25:17,235
those are the different ways that people,

677
00:25:17,555 --> 00:25:19,795
engage with us. But one of the things

678
00:25:19,795 --> 00:25:22,355
that we have supported a lot of schools

679
00:25:22,355 --> 00:25:25,809
in is, like, creating, like, real, actionable norms

680
00:25:25,950 --> 00:25:28,509
or guiding principles or guide you know, a

681
00:25:28,509 --> 00:25:30,509
lot of schools have those. Right? And or

682
00:25:30,509 --> 00:25:32,190
if you ask them, they're like, I think

683
00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:33,710
we had them. I think we made that.

684
00:25:33,710 --> 00:25:35,150
I don't know. Do we still use you

685
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:37,549
know? But, how do you have norms that

686
00:25:37,549 --> 00:25:38,575
are, like, actually

687
00:25:38,875 --> 00:25:40,894
usable in classroom conversations?

688
00:25:41,994 --> 00:25:44,234
And norms like if you're about to study

689
00:25:44,234 --> 00:25:44,734
history,

690
00:25:45,035 --> 00:25:46,815
ask like, norms like,

691
00:25:47,434 --> 00:25:49,434
let's be careful with the language that we

692
00:25:49,434 --> 00:25:52,075
use. Let's not use words like always and

693
00:25:52,075 --> 00:25:55,070
all of them, but maybe some and maybe,

694
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:57,390
or let's speak from our own experience when

695
00:25:57,390 --> 00:25:59,789
we're making a statement, or let's understand that

696
00:25:59,789 --> 00:26:01,710
we're never going to be experts of this,

697
00:26:01,710 --> 00:26:04,109
right? So I think setting those sort of

698
00:26:04,109 --> 00:26:05,170
norms, again,

699
00:26:05,470 --> 00:26:07,410
we're not asking for, like, a huge

700
00:26:08,095 --> 00:26:10,575
overhaul, which also in this day and age,

701
00:26:10,575 --> 00:26:14,014
like, just we know how exhausted and overrun

702
00:26:14,014 --> 00:26:16,815
teachers are. It's not about, like, shifting or

703
00:26:16,815 --> 00:26:19,294
throwing out an entire curriculum. It's like, how

704
00:26:19,294 --> 00:26:21,630
am I changing and shifting my own mindset?

705
00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:23,630
And that slowly starts to shift my own

706
00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:26,190
practice in these small ways that have big

707
00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:28,909
impact, you know? Yeah. Definitely. You're starting to

708
00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:30,450
kinda go into this idea

709
00:26:31,069 --> 00:26:34,109
of community building. And I know that that's

710
00:26:34,109 --> 00:26:34,609
something

711
00:26:35,069 --> 00:26:35,535
that

712
00:26:36,494 --> 00:26:38,914
your organization does with intention

713
00:26:39,295 --> 00:26:40,115
and with,

714
00:26:40,815 --> 00:26:42,674
and with a specific sort of

715
00:26:43,215 --> 00:26:43,715
goal.

716
00:26:44,174 --> 00:26:46,255
So what we've tried to do is, again,

717
00:26:46,255 --> 00:26:47,394
like, what are the practical

718
00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:50,761
things we can do? So instead of, like,

719
00:26:50,761 --> 00:26:51,150
it's not like, what color socks do you

720
00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:52,830
have, and let's line up with whether you

721
00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:54,430
have these socks in your drawers or these

722
00:26:54,430 --> 00:26:56,690
socks in your drawers. And we're talking about

723
00:26:56,750 --> 00:27:00,350
creating intentional space to build community. Right? And

724
00:27:00,350 --> 00:27:01,410
so what we

725
00:27:01,734 --> 00:27:02,554
have sort of

726
00:27:03,654 --> 00:27:06,214
defined is, like, three pieces of a community

727
00:27:06,214 --> 00:27:07,815
builder. And if you remind me, I'll send

728
00:27:07,815 --> 00:27:10,534
you this resource. Because we try to have

729
00:27:10,534 --> 00:27:11,514
as many resources,

730
00:27:12,134 --> 00:27:14,700
free, open sources, so that, like, folks can

731
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:16,700
use them, and hopefully, they're helpful. So we

732
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:18,140
kind of try to think about a community

733
00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:20,299
builder in three different parts. The first is

734
00:27:20,299 --> 00:27:22,480
that you always make space for some sort

735
00:27:22,619 --> 00:27:24,700
of norm, like norm sharing. Like, hey. We've

736
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,339
cocreated these. Let's remember when we're in this

737
00:27:27,339 --> 00:27:29,179
space together, we're gonna speak from our own

738
00:27:29,179 --> 00:27:29,679
experience,

739
00:27:30,065 --> 00:27:31,365
or we're going to,

740
00:27:31,904 --> 00:27:33,984
learn from each other, but not, like, take

741
00:27:33,984 --> 00:27:35,904
our stories and share them with others. Whatever

742
00:27:35,904 --> 00:27:38,305
the norms are, you share them first. The

743
00:27:38,305 --> 00:27:40,384
second is to actually do the activity, whatever

744
00:27:40,384 --> 00:27:42,865
the activity is, right, where it's building community.

745
00:27:42,865 --> 00:27:44,950
It could be, like, respond to one of

746
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:46,409
these questions or share

747
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:48,890
a moment of joy from the last, like,

748
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:51,349
you know, two weeks or, like, let's build

749
00:27:51,349 --> 00:27:53,269
this thing together, whatever the activity is and

750
00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:55,429
whatever you have time for. Right? Right. Then

751
00:27:55,429 --> 00:27:56,804
the last piece, and I think this is

752
00:27:56,804 --> 00:27:58,804
the piece that gets forgotten so often, is

753
00:27:58,804 --> 00:28:01,365
some sort of debrief. Right? It's like, why

754
00:28:01,365 --> 00:28:03,365
did it how do you feel after having

755
00:28:03,365 --> 00:28:05,525
that space together to hear from somebody else

756
00:28:05,525 --> 00:28:07,845
or hear someone else's story? Or, like, what

757
00:28:07,845 --> 00:28:10,099
did it what, what's, what is this making

758
00:28:10,099 --> 00:28:11,940
you think about? I'm thinking about with faculty,

759
00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:13,220
right? Like, what is this making you think

760
00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:15,480
about in terms of your own classroom space?

761
00:28:15,619 --> 00:28:17,159
And that debrief space

762
00:28:17,539 --> 00:28:19,640
suddenly changed this, like, icebreaker

763
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:23,085
eye roller experience to like, this is a

764
00:28:23,085 --> 00:28:25,484
meaningful thing that we just did that I

765
00:28:25,484 --> 00:28:27,484
can then just do with my kids as

766
00:28:27,484 --> 00:28:29,724
well kind of thing. You know? We're trying

767
00:28:29,724 --> 00:28:32,684
to, again, create the similar spaces. Like, what

768
00:28:32,684 --> 00:28:34,924
I just described, having a community builder have

769
00:28:34,924 --> 00:28:37,160
these three parts, like, have some norms, do

770
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,480
some sort of activity together, then have a

771
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,400
debrief. We would do the same thing with

772
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,000
families as well. So if you have a

773
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,140
gathering with families,

774
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:46,920
like, start off with something like that. Sometimes

775
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,839
it's just five to ten minutes, and it

776
00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:49,335
can

777
00:28:49,815 --> 00:28:53,015
completely shift what a room, like, feels like.

778
00:28:53,015 --> 00:28:54,774
You know? We had a group of families

779
00:28:54,774 --> 00:28:56,855
coming for a meeting one year, I remember,

780
00:28:56,855 --> 00:28:58,214
and we said, you know, let's just start

781
00:28:58,214 --> 00:29:00,474
off with, like, an artifact share with families.

782
00:29:00,855 --> 00:29:03,029
And we grouped them, and then we had

783
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:05,509
them in small groups share, like, an artifact

784
00:29:05,509 --> 00:29:07,430
that told a story about their lives. And

785
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:09,370
at first, like, it was like, oh, like,

786
00:29:09,509 --> 00:29:10,009
what?

787
00:29:10,309 --> 00:29:12,890
But, like, within two minutes, the, like,

788
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:15,990
the feeling in the room shifted, you know?

789
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:18,164
And then we asked them, like, why did

790
00:29:18,164 --> 00:29:19,965
we why did this matter that we did

791
00:29:19,965 --> 00:29:22,845
this? They know. They said, like, oh, now

792
00:29:22,845 --> 00:29:24,445
I feel like I know this person a

793
00:29:24,445 --> 00:29:26,924
little bit more. It humanizes us before we

794
00:29:26,924 --> 00:29:29,404
start talking about these other really hard things

795
00:29:29,404 --> 00:29:31,164
that we need to talk about. And so

796
00:29:31,164 --> 00:29:34,289
I think those those things take it from

797
00:29:34,289 --> 00:29:36,450
being, like, just a, like, a quick, like,

798
00:29:36,450 --> 00:29:38,630
okay. Share this one piece of information.

799
00:29:39,089 --> 00:29:41,330
Those three elements sort of give it the

800
00:29:41,330 --> 00:29:43,890
weight and allow you to talk about the

801
00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:46,369
why. Like, why are why does it matter

802
00:29:46,369 --> 00:29:48,634
that we're starting in this way, in a

803
00:29:48,634 --> 00:29:51,454
world that continues, in a society that continues

804
00:29:51,595 --> 00:29:53,755
to tell us we're so different, tells us

805
00:29:53,755 --> 00:29:56,414
stories about other people, tells us that,

806
00:29:56,794 --> 00:29:58,634
this person thinks this way and this person

807
00:29:58,634 --> 00:30:00,234
thinks this way? Like, all of a sudden,

808
00:30:00,234 --> 00:30:03,169
like, I know that you also love to

809
00:30:03,169 --> 00:30:05,009
eat Italian food, and we can sort of

810
00:30:05,009 --> 00:30:07,250
connect about that. Or I also know that

811
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:09,329
we have this or that's interesting that you

812
00:30:09,329 --> 00:30:11,169
do this. I never and so suddenly, you're

813
00:30:11,169 --> 00:30:11,669
humanizing,

814
00:30:12,210 --> 00:30:13,829
and I think that's the most

815
00:30:14,204 --> 00:30:17,164
critical piece around the community building where it's,

816
00:30:17,164 --> 00:30:18,784
like, really seeing

817
00:30:19,244 --> 00:30:21,404
seeing people as humans. You know? And that

818
00:30:21,404 --> 00:30:22,224
takes consistent

819
00:30:22,525 --> 00:30:23,025
practice.

820
00:30:23,484 --> 00:30:23,984
Yeah.

821
00:30:25,244 --> 00:30:26,384
To that point

822
00:30:26,765 --> 00:30:27,265
of

823
00:30:28,109 --> 00:30:28,609
repeating

824
00:30:29,309 --> 00:30:32,369
stories and reproducing stories that present

825
00:30:32,829 --> 00:30:34,369
human beings as one dimensional,

826
00:30:34,990 --> 00:30:36,049
as caricatures,

827
00:30:36,589 --> 00:30:37,089
as,

828
00:30:37,789 --> 00:30:39,490
you know, the greatest fear

829
00:30:39,789 --> 00:30:43,329
embodied. Right? Building those bonds of friendship.

830
00:30:43,765 --> 00:30:46,424
What can educators do to help young people,

831
00:30:47,285 --> 00:30:48,825
like, really build those connections

832
00:30:49,125 --> 00:30:50,505
that you and your organization

833
00:30:50,884 --> 00:30:52,664
are really emphasizing

834
00:30:53,365 --> 00:30:55,384
in ways that are authentic and lasting?

835
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,320
The first thing is to just believe it

836
00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:58,820
yourself.

837
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,220
Like, believe that it matters.

838
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,259
You know?

839
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:05,680
If you if I and I think that

840
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,720
comes back to, like, understanding the research around

841
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,714
belonging, understanding the why. Like, why does it

842
00:31:11,714 --> 00:31:12,214
matter?

843
00:31:12,674 --> 00:31:13,654
How does that

844
00:31:14,674 --> 00:31:17,075
help, like, shift the narrative of what I

845
00:31:17,075 --> 00:31:19,335
think about somebody when I start to humanize

846
00:31:19,394 --> 00:31:21,474
them? How do how can I see how

847
00:31:21,474 --> 00:31:21,954
history

848
00:31:22,275 --> 00:31:23,095
like, historically,

849
00:31:23,474 --> 00:31:26,150
the reason why, like, so much pain and

850
00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:28,789
hurt has happened is because we've dehumanized people?

851
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:31,109
Right? Like, how can I actually understand the

852
00:31:31,109 --> 00:31:33,609
why? And when I believe that myself,

853
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:36,069
then it becomes more possible to say, like,

854
00:31:36,069 --> 00:31:37,750
you know, let me start my morning like

855
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:39,589
this, or let me before we dive into

856
00:31:39,589 --> 00:31:42,045
this unit, let's make some space for, like,

857
00:31:42,045 --> 00:31:43,724
kids to actually talk to each other, for

858
00:31:43,724 --> 00:31:45,404
adults to talk to each other. So I

859
00:31:45,404 --> 00:31:47,184
think, like, it's first believing

860
00:31:47,724 --> 00:31:49,265
believing it, you know?

861
00:31:50,365 --> 00:31:53,244
The second is, like, just being consistent about

862
00:31:53,244 --> 00:31:55,109
it. I think so often I know, like,

863
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:57,269
summer professional development starts and it's like this

864
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:58,950
year we want to do this, this, and

865
00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:00,809
then there's an initiative that starts.

866
00:32:01,589 --> 00:32:04,250
And sometimes that like even the community building

867
00:32:04,309 --> 00:32:06,869
quote unquote, or the icebreaking happens like at

868
00:32:06,869 --> 00:32:09,494
summer PD, but then we never, we don't

869
00:32:09,494 --> 00:32:11,095
come back to it. Or like we spend

870
00:32:11,095 --> 00:32:12,934
the first two weeks building community in our

871
00:32:12,934 --> 00:32:13,434
classrooms

872
00:32:13,815 --> 00:32:15,335
and then we don't come back to it.

873
00:32:15,335 --> 00:32:17,914
And so the second piece is just consistency,

874
00:32:18,214 --> 00:32:20,394
like making sure that that's happening

875
00:32:20,740 --> 00:32:22,740
throughout the year because we're all growing and

876
00:32:22,740 --> 00:32:25,059
learning and shifting and changing. And, like, if

877
00:32:25,059 --> 00:32:27,140
we don't continue to make space for that

878
00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:27,640
connection,

879
00:32:28,019 --> 00:32:30,659
we're just gonna continue to, like, believe the

880
00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:32,500
stories. You know what I mean? Because those

881
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,619
stories Yeah. Have been designed to powerfully tell

882
00:32:35,619 --> 00:32:37,875
us a thing or another. Right?

883
00:32:38,255 --> 00:32:39,315
You have to actually

884
00:32:39,695 --> 00:32:41,394
believe in belonging.

885
00:32:42,015 --> 00:32:42,994
What you're framing

886
00:32:43,295 --> 00:32:44,755
is that typically

887
00:32:45,454 --> 00:32:46,815
and I think this it sounds like this

888
00:32:46,815 --> 00:32:49,319
has been your experience in schools. This was

889
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,259
definitely my experience in schools,

890
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,819
where our community building

891
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,179
and our professional learning are separate somehow.

892
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,759
And I remember there's a story with my

893
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:01,579
old director

894
00:33:02,095 --> 00:33:04,654
who was addressing an issue with an employee

895
00:33:04,654 --> 00:33:06,595
that just wasn't engaged and

896
00:33:06,975 --> 00:33:07,475
wasn't

897
00:33:08,174 --> 00:33:11,295
buying into anything that that was happening. It

898
00:33:11,295 --> 00:33:13,375
was just very unpleasant. So the director says

899
00:33:13,375 --> 00:33:14,195
to the employee,

900
00:33:15,889 --> 00:33:17,829
understand this has been really hard for you.

901
00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:20,289
What are you willing to commit to? And

902
00:33:20,289 --> 00:33:21,349
the employee said,

903
00:33:21,730 --> 00:33:23,190
I mean, I'll do the work.

904
00:33:23,809 --> 00:33:25,829
And to which the director said,

905
00:33:26,289 --> 00:33:27,674
what do you think the work is?

906
00:33:29,355 --> 00:33:31,195
And to me, that was such that was

907
00:33:31,195 --> 00:33:34,154
so illustrative of the of the dissonance that

908
00:33:34,154 --> 00:33:34,815
we experience

909
00:33:35,355 --> 00:33:37,615
that we mistake the work for the tasks.

910
00:33:38,154 --> 00:33:40,174
Right? The work is the people.

911
00:33:40,715 --> 00:33:41,215
Right?

912
00:33:41,659 --> 00:33:43,519
Tasks are gonna come and go,

913
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:44,720
but

914
00:33:45,179 --> 00:33:47,759
the work is how do we position ourselves

915
00:33:47,819 --> 00:33:48,559
to be

916
00:33:49,259 --> 00:33:50,159
just really

917
00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:52,539
in collaboration with each other so we can

918
00:33:52,539 --> 00:33:54,154
come up with the best ideas for kids

919
00:33:54,154 --> 00:33:56,554
or whoever it is that that we're serving.

920
00:33:56,554 --> 00:33:57,994
And so I think that's what I hear

921
00:33:57,994 --> 00:34:00,335
you speaking to. It's like I I

922
00:34:00,875 --> 00:34:03,515
can myself drown in the to do lists.

923
00:34:03,515 --> 00:34:05,194
Right? But when I can lift my head

924
00:34:05,194 --> 00:34:07,309
up a little, I'm like, we're talking about

925
00:34:07,309 --> 00:34:10,449
human beings. We're talking about, like, the transformation

926
00:34:10,750 --> 00:34:12,590
of the human heart, and so much of

927
00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:14,210
that just gets sort of, like,

928
00:34:14,829 --> 00:34:15,969
lost and,

929
00:34:16,989 --> 00:34:19,304
buried. And, again, I think a lot of

930
00:34:19,304 --> 00:34:22,045
that's intentional and on purpose and by design.

931
00:34:22,744 --> 00:34:25,144
But we're not, like, given there was a

932
00:34:25,144 --> 00:34:27,164
woman I worked with who would say spaciousness.

933
00:34:27,545 --> 00:34:29,244
You know, I'm not given the spaciousness

934
00:34:29,545 --> 00:34:30,605
to, like, be

935
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,800
and to create and to, like, connect. Right?

936
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,539
And I think,

937
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,480
as grown ups, as as a society, we

938
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,320
can see that there's less and less time

939
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,239
for that even, right, or that we're made

940
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,500
to believe that that is not valuable.

941
00:34:43,954 --> 00:34:45,315
And I think at the end of the

942
00:34:45,315 --> 00:34:47,394
day, that's actually at the heart of this.

943
00:34:47,394 --> 00:34:49,815
It's just stopping to have that conversation,

944
00:34:50,275 --> 00:34:52,355
to ask that question, and to really listen

945
00:34:52,355 --> 00:34:53,175
to the answer.

946
00:34:54,355 --> 00:34:55,414
And, yeah, I think

947
00:34:55,875 --> 00:34:58,034
the I think the third thing I would

948
00:34:58,034 --> 00:34:58,775
just say

949
00:34:59,230 --> 00:35:00,769
is just making sure

950
00:35:01,150 --> 00:35:02,530
to have, like, accountability,

951
00:35:02,829 --> 00:35:05,230
like, to your opinion about norms. Like, how

952
00:35:05,230 --> 00:35:07,469
do we if we're gonna have norms that

953
00:35:07,469 --> 00:35:09,650
will help us have meaningful conversations,

954
00:35:10,110 --> 00:35:12,430
how do we come back to them and,

955
00:35:12,430 --> 00:35:14,849
like, may like, hold ourselves and our communities

956
00:35:15,605 --> 00:35:17,605
accountable to them, you know? So I think

957
00:35:17,605 --> 00:35:18,664
all of those things

958
00:35:19,045 --> 00:35:20,644
matter, and I think the thing that people

959
00:35:20,644 --> 00:35:22,085
tell us so often, it's like, we don't

960
00:35:22,085 --> 00:35:23,364
have time, we don't have time for this,

961
00:35:23,364 --> 00:35:25,204
there's no time for this. So again, like,

962
00:35:25,204 --> 00:35:27,364
yeah, there's never gonna be time, but how

963
00:35:27,364 --> 00:35:28,824
do we even carve small,

964
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:30,920
a small space? How do we make just

965
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,920
five minutes to do the thing? You know,

966
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,000
just five minutes and start there. And it

967
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,319
almost becomes contagious because you want you crave

968
00:35:37,319 --> 00:35:39,559
that because the peep the community craves that.

969
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:41,639
And but we don't realize it's actually making

970
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,019
everything else more efficient

971
00:35:43,585 --> 00:35:45,824
when we actually make the space to Well,

972
00:35:45,824 --> 00:35:48,144
you're spending less time in HR meetings, and

973
00:35:48,144 --> 00:35:50,244
you're spending less time in

974
00:35:50,864 --> 00:35:53,824
disciplinary hearings, and you're spending less time in

975
00:35:53,824 --> 00:35:54,324
mediation.

976
00:35:54,945 --> 00:35:56,945
Right? And which is not to say that

977
00:35:56,945 --> 00:35:58,840
any of those things are bad things. And

978
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,460
if you're if you're experiencing

979
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,679
harm, then those are like there are tools

980
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:04,440
that are set out for you, but the

981
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,940
toolbox should not be the machine.

982
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:07,739
Right?

983
00:36:08,119 --> 00:36:10,219
And I think that is such an important

984
00:36:10,359 --> 00:36:10,859
point.

985
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,545
Like I would even counter when when people

986
00:36:13,545 --> 00:36:14,905
say we don't really have time for this.

987
00:36:14,905 --> 00:36:16,425
I would say, actually, we don't have time

988
00:36:16,425 --> 00:36:17,625
not to do this. That's

989
00:36:18,505 --> 00:36:20,764
and it's mind blowing to me.

990
00:36:21,144 --> 00:36:21,804
The manufactured

991
00:36:22,344 --> 00:36:24,844
urgency that happens in some of these systems

992
00:36:24,905 --> 00:36:26,684
where it's kinda like

993
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:28,340
so many

994
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:30,960
teams have just gone away from even doing

995
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,960
introductions. Like, I remember being in a meeting

996
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,200
last year and people just launched in and

997
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,980
I just kinda raised my hand. I'm like,

998
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,440
could we just do a quick round of

999
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,875
introductions? Like, I don't actually know everybody in

1000
00:36:41,875 --> 00:36:44,275
the room and I don't know what you're

1001
00:36:44,275 --> 00:36:46,034
speaking from. Like, I would I would love

1002
00:36:46,034 --> 00:36:47,634
to at least know your name and your

1003
00:36:47,634 --> 00:36:49,634
role. Like, that would be a really big

1004
00:36:49,634 --> 00:36:50,454
thing. So

1005
00:36:51,074 --> 00:36:53,335
the human work is the work, I think.

1006
00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:56,050
Yeah. It's so true. Yeah. So

1007
00:36:56,349 --> 00:36:58,429
you you've named a couple of at a

1008
00:36:58,429 --> 00:36:59,809
couple of different points

1009
00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:02,369
where there are

1010
00:37:03,550 --> 00:37:04,849
think there are barriers

1011
00:37:05,230 --> 00:37:06,210
to this humanizing

1012
00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:09,674
work that are intentionally being being sort

1013
00:37:10,135 --> 00:37:11,034
of manufactured,

1014
00:37:11,414 --> 00:37:11,914
reinforced,

1015
00:37:12,614 --> 00:37:14,375
amplified, and all those things. And, of course,

1016
00:37:14,375 --> 00:37:17,034
the thing I thought about was the current

1017
00:37:17,494 --> 00:37:18,554
climate of hostility

1018
00:37:18,934 --> 00:37:21,174
or tension, I should say, around around the

1019
00:37:21,174 --> 00:37:23,789
idea of DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion.

1020
00:37:26,409 --> 00:37:27,309
Where where

1021
00:37:27,609 --> 00:37:28,829
are you finding

1022
00:37:29,690 --> 00:37:31,949
roots connected is supposed is

1023
00:37:32,569 --> 00:37:33,710
is engaging,

1024
00:37:34,329 --> 00:37:36,969
and how are you staying grounded in this

1025
00:37:36,969 --> 00:37:37,949
knowing that

1026
00:37:38,534 --> 00:37:39,655
there is this

1027
00:37:40,375 --> 00:37:43,114
and it's from a minority of people. Right?

1028
00:37:43,175 --> 00:37:45,574
But this push to sort of demonize and

1029
00:37:45,574 --> 00:37:46,394
even criminalize

1030
00:37:46,775 --> 00:37:47,275
DEI,

1031
00:37:48,135 --> 00:37:50,295
what's the mindset you encourage in that, and

1032
00:37:50,295 --> 00:37:52,554
how do you stand firm in that conviction?

1033
00:37:53,969 --> 00:37:54,469
Yeah.

1034
00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:58,530
Well, I think for some reason easy. Right?

1035
00:37:58,530 --> 00:38:00,530
You just do it. It's not hard. It's

1036
00:38:00,530 --> 00:38:02,449
not exhausting at all. I don't think about

1037
00:38:02,449 --> 00:38:04,369
this at all. I don't think about it

1038
00:38:04,369 --> 00:38:06,684
every single moment of every single day. Super

1039
00:38:06,684 --> 00:38:07,905
easy. It's not a problem.

1040
00:38:08,605 --> 00:38:11,424
I think even, like, the language of DEI

1041
00:38:11,565 --> 00:38:13,964
has just means a million different things to

1042
00:38:13,964 --> 00:38:16,045
everyone. Like, probably even if you and I

1043
00:38:16,045 --> 00:38:17,565
were to unpack it, we might be like,

1044
00:38:17,565 --> 00:38:18,924
but I think it means this, and I

1045
00:38:18,924 --> 00:38:20,525
think it means this. And sometimes it has

1046
00:38:20,525 --> 00:38:21,989
a b attached, and sometimes it has a

1047
00:38:21,989 --> 00:38:23,750
a attached. And That's right. There's all these

1048
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:26,150
different things, right, that it that it means.

1049
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:27,989
So I think the first part is just

1050
00:38:27,989 --> 00:38:29,670
getting on the same page. Like, what are

1051
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:31,670
we even talking about, first of all? Like,

1052
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:33,510
are we talking about the same thing and

1053
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:35,510
trying to do some sort of, like, shared

1054
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:38,625
language around it? And then just remembering like,

1055
00:38:38,625 --> 00:38:39,844
I find a lot of,

1056
00:38:41,105 --> 00:38:43,525
I find it very hopeful that, like,

1057
00:38:44,065 --> 00:38:46,625
that remembering that this isn't the first time

1058
00:38:46,625 --> 00:38:47,765
in, like, history

1059
00:38:48,385 --> 00:38:52,099
that there's, like, resistance against this work. That

1060
00:38:52,099 --> 00:38:53,140
part. And,

1061
00:38:53,780 --> 00:38:55,400
like, the resistance against,

1062
00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:57,160
like like, centralizing

1063
00:38:57,699 --> 00:39:01,059
you know, centering mar marginalized voices or centering

1064
00:39:01,059 --> 00:39:02,039
justice or,

1065
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:05,300
what we're trying to the pain points in

1066
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:05,800
history.

1067
00:39:06,324 --> 00:39:08,644
Yeah. Like, it's we're not the first. Right?

1068
00:39:08,644 --> 00:39:10,724
And we and we want to be the

1069
00:39:10,724 --> 00:39:12,405
last, but we probably won't be the last

1070
00:39:12,405 --> 00:39:14,164
to resist in this way. You know? And

1071
00:39:14,164 --> 00:39:14,664
so,

1072
00:39:15,045 --> 00:39:16,184
I remember in the

1073
00:39:16,804 --> 00:39:18,890
in the heart of the 2020

1074
00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:21,930
when there was obviously so much happening around,

1075
00:39:21,930 --> 00:39:24,969
like, the COVID pandemic, and then there was

1076
00:39:24,969 --> 00:39:27,050
a lot happening around just, like, almost like

1077
00:39:27,050 --> 00:39:29,869
a stirring of consciousness around race.

1078
00:39:30,945 --> 00:39:32,864
I was sitting I had a I had

1079
00:39:32,864 --> 00:39:35,265
a dear friend, an older African American woman

1080
00:39:35,265 --> 00:39:37,344
who, like, would invite me into her backyard,

1081
00:39:37,344 --> 00:39:39,204
and we'd just sit there and drink, like,

1082
00:39:39,505 --> 00:39:41,684
coffee at seven in the morning

1083
00:39:41,985 --> 00:39:44,099
outside in the desert. And she would tell

1084
00:39:44,099 --> 00:39:46,819
me these stories about, like, her fighting and

1085
00:39:46,819 --> 00:39:49,139
marching in the streets for school integration. And

1086
00:39:49,139 --> 00:39:51,380
I just remember being like, you've been like,

1087
00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:53,779
you've seen this, you know, you've, like, watched

1088
00:39:53,779 --> 00:39:54,279
movements.

1089
00:39:54,819 --> 00:39:56,839
And I think remembering that, like,

1090
00:39:57,434 --> 00:39:59,855
resistance has always been part of the story

1091
00:39:59,994 --> 00:40:01,934
is really helpful. Like we're not

1092
00:40:02,315 --> 00:40:04,954
alone and it's not our first time. And

1093
00:40:04,954 --> 00:40:07,355
so I think remembering that has been really

1094
00:40:07,355 --> 00:40:07,855
helpful.

1095
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,880
And, like, we believe at RootsConnected, like, we

1096
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,480
have been doing the work where it's this

1097
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,480
isn't new for us. We're not now doing

1098
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,719
it because it, like, matters more. Like, oh,

1099
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,800
no. What do we do other than what

1100
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,644
we've always done? Yeah. And so there it's

1101
00:40:22,644 --> 00:40:24,644
nice. Like, we can, like, continue to do

1102
00:40:24,644 --> 00:40:26,405
the work. And the reality is, like, we

1103
00:40:26,405 --> 00:40:28,565
can call it whatever we want. Like, we'll

1104
00:40:28,565 --> 00:40:30,484
call it whatever, but we won't stop doing

1105
00:40:30,484 --> 00:40:32,085
the work. And so I think that's the

1106
00:40:32,085 --> 00:40:34,660
most critical thing for us. And the thing

1107
00:40:34,660 --> 00:40:36,820
that we ask leaders and teachers in this

1108
00:40:36,820 --> 00:40:38,579
moment, because there is a lot of fear.

1109
00:40:38,579 --> 00:40:40,360
There is a lot of, like, unknown.

1110
00:40:40,739 --> 00:40:42,579
And what we ask teachers is to just

1111
00:40:42,579 --> 00:40:45,300
do whatever's in the locus of their control

1112
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:47,795
to do. And if they can make one

1113
00:40:47,795 --> 00:40:50,275
small shift or they can do one thing

1114
00:40:50,275 --> 00:40:52,114
a little differently, then that's what we can

1115
00:40:52,114 --> 00:40:54,054
do in this moment. And I think, like,

1116
00:40:54,114 --> 00:40:56,194
it it just requires us not to, like,

1117
00:40:56,194 --> 00:40:58,835
stop. It just requires to keep going, but,

1118
00:40:58,835 --> 00:41:00,674
like, do the thing that makes sense in

1119
00:41:00,674 --> 00:41:02,489
that. You know what I mean? What you're

1120
00:41:02,489 --> 00:41:04,489
sort of saying is that I I can't

1121
00:41:04,489 --> 00:41:05,469
control what's

1122
00:41:05,849 --> 00:41:07,630
happening two time zones away

1123
00:41:08,010 --> 00:41:09,309
in the halls of government.

1124
00:41:09,769 --> 00:41:11,769
I can control how I run my team

1125
00:41:11,769 --> 00:41:12,269
meeting.

1126
00:41:12,730 --> 00:41:14,349
Right? I can control

1127
00:41:15,234 --> 00:41:16,135
how I receive

1128
00:41:16,434 --> 00:41:18,914
a complaint or a problem of practice. Like,

1129
00:41:18,914 --> 00:41:20,375
those are things I can control.

1130
00:41:21,074 --> 00:41:23,494
Yeah. And I'm definitely not saying that, like,

1131
00:41:23,554 --> 00:41:26,195
that there isn't just so much grief and

1132
00:41:26,195 --> 00:41:28,195
so much pain and so much worry. At

1133
00:41:28,195 --> 00:41:30,710
all. Nope. Like, it is so heavy. And,

1134
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:33,429
honestly, some days, like, waking up and being

1135
00:41:33,429 --> 00:41:33,929
like,

1136
00:41:34,389 --> 00:41:36,389
god, what what's go what's going on? I'm

1137
00:41:36,389 --> 00:41:38,550
like, oh, yeah. Like, it's just it's in

1138
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:40,550
the air, and there's so much there's so

1139
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:42,824
much, and I'm not gonna, like, pretend that

1140
00:41:42,824 --> 00:41:45,144
there isn't. Yeah. Of course. But all I

1141
00:41:45,144 --> 00:41:46,905
can do and what I can lean back

1142
00:41:46,905 --> 00:41:48,824
on is, like, yeah, what is in my

1143
00:41:48,824 --> 00:41:51,864
control today, right now, in order to do

1144
00:41:51,864 --> 00:41:54,284
to bring a little bit of, like, connection

1145
00:41:54,505 --> 00:41:57,460
and justice and kindness and love? And, like,

1146
00:41:57,460 --> 00:41:59,480
at the end of the day, how can

1147
00:42:00,059 --> 00:42:00,559
I,

1148
00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:02,980
how can I move in a way that,

1149
00:42:02,980 --> 00:42:04,980
like, comes from that place of love in

1150
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:08,180
those interactions, however small, you know, as tiny

1151
00:42:08,180 --> 00:42:10,099
as a grain of mustard seed, as they

1152
00:42:10,099 --> 00:42:12,105
say? Yeah. The the thing that I thank

1153
00:42:12,105 --> 00:42:13,565
you for that and I definitely

1154
00:42:13,864 --> 00:42:15,565
think like so this

1155
00:42:15,945 --> 00:42:18,364
is Sokka MB telling you all audience,

1156
00:42:18,824 --> 00:42:20,585
don't get down on yourself if you're not

1157
00:42:20,585 --> 00:42:24,204
moving mountains with every, like, motion. Right?

1158
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:26,360
Because at the end of the day we

1159
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,900
can only do what we can do.

1160
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:29,420
And I think,

1161
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,559
the last thing before we get to the

1162
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:33,480
fun question, the last thing is kind of

1163
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:33,980
like

1164
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:36,200
the the way it all looks in the

1165
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,380
world right now can feel really, really overwhelming.

1166
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:40,795
And especially for those of us who are

1167
00:42:40,795 --> 00:42:41,295
working

1168
00:42:41,835 --> 00:42:42,894
in or around

1169
00:42:43,195 --> 00:42:44,094
public education,

1170
00:42:45,675 --> 00:42:47,614
it can feel that much more urgent

1171
00:42:48,555 --> 00:42:49,934
and that much more

1172
00:42:50,315 --> 00:42:52,094
anxiety inducing. So

1173
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:56,089
are there core practices or mindset shifts

1174
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:58,969
that you can offer to educators and others

1175
00:42:59,190 --> 00:43:00,969
who do want to

1176
00:43:01,589 --> 00:43:03,909
deepen their commitment to justice equity and anti

1177
00:43:03,909 --> 00:43:06,010
bias education? Like, what would that be?

1178
00:43:08,625 --> 00:43:09,125
Yeah.

1179
00:43:11,344 --> 00:43:13,184
I'm gonna pause for a minute. Can we?

1180
00:43:13,184 --> 00:43:15,605
Can you can you edit here? Yes.

1181
00:43:18,385 --> 00:43:18,885
So

1182
00:43:20,065 --> 00:43:21,605
if you could offer

1183
00:43:21,905 --> 00:43:23,045
one core practice

1184
00:43:23,529 --> 00:43:26,670
or a mindset shift to educators or others

1185
00:43:27,929 --> 00:43:28,509
who wanna

1186
00:43:28,889 --> 00:43:31,230
really make that progress towards deepening

1187
00:43:31,769 --> 00:43:34,489
their commitment to justice, equity, and anti bias

1188
00:43:34,489 --> 00:43:34,989
education,

1189
00:43:35,769 --> 00:43:37,994
what what would that core practice

1190
00:43:38,954 --> 00:43:41,695
The first is to choose something really small,

1191
00:43:41,835 --> 00:43:44,315
like a small shift that you can commit

1192
00:43:44,315 --> 00:43:46,894
to and do that small shift consistently.

1193
00:43:48,394 --> 00:43:48,894
Like

1194
00:43:49,994 --> 00:43:52,409
yeah. Choose something small, make it make it

1195
00:43:52,409 --> 00:43:54,489
happen. We're we're actually doing, like, a whole

1196
00:43:54,489 --> 00:43:56,809
webinar series that's gonna be for free, free

1197
00:43:56,809 --> 00:43:58,489
of charge if anyone wants to come. Just

1198
00:43:58,489 --> 00:44:00,750
short thirty minute webinars that are all

1199
00:44:01,289 --> 00:44:04,170
small shifts, big impact. Like, what's something small

1200
00:44:04,170 --> 00:44:06,494
you could do? Either change your language, change

1201
00:44:06,494 --> 00:44:08,574
one word that you're using, like, just these

1202
00:44:08,574 --> 00:44:10,654
small, more tangible things that you can do,

1203
00:44:10,654 --> 00:44:12,335
and I'll try to I'll send that to

1204
00:44:12,335 --> 00:44:14,574
you too so that you Yeah. Awesome. But,

1205
00:44:14,574 --> 00:44:17,214
yeah, just, like link that. The spaces where

1206
00:44:17,214 --> 00:44:19,659
you can make like, just commit to something

1207
00:44:19,659 --> 00:44:21,119
small, but just do it consistently.

1208
00:44:21,739 --> 00:44:23,579
And the other one is to not go

1209
00:44:23,579 --> 00:44:26,140
at it alone, you know, find support, whether

1210
00:44:26,140 --> 00:44:28,480
it's, like, a colleague in your school

1211
00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:30,460
or they're in your community or not in

1212
00:44:30,460 --> 00:44:32,699
your community, some place where you can share

1213
00:44:32,699 --> 00:44:34,264
reflections and ask questions

1214
00:44:35,525 --> 00:44:37,164
and broaden your perspective. But I think you

1215
00:44:37,164 --> 00:44:38,804
were mentioning earlier, like, you heard about us

1216
00:44:38,804 --> 00:44:39,304
through

1217
00:44:39,924 --> 00:44:41,764
the rebel educator pack, and then it was,

1218
00:44:41,764 --> 00:44:44,085
like, embrace it's, like, there's these groups. There's

1219
00:44:44,085 --> 00:44:46,904
there's I remember, like, at at the embrace

1220
00:44:46,964 --> 00:44:48,344
race convening, I was like,

1221
00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:50,849
like, yourself included. I was like, there's people

1222
00:44:50,849 --> 00:44:52,789
I can talk to, and I can, like,

1223
00:44:53,010 --> 00:44:55,269
put them ask questions to and just find

1224
00:44:55,569 --> 00:44:58,289
that community or that person and remember that

1225
00:44:58,289 --> 00:44:59,969
you're not alone. And I think those are

1226
00:44:59,969 --> 00:45:02,050
the two, I would say, practices in this

1227
00:45:02,050 --> 00:45:02,550
moment,

1228
00:45:03,250 --> 00:45:05,574
that hopefully can, like, help.

1229
00:45:06,275 --> 00:45:08,114
Yeah. I think and I think that's so

1230
00:45:08,114 --> 00:45:08,614
key,

1231
00:45:09,234 --> 00:45:10,214
that you don't

1232
00:45:10,674 --> 00:45:13,414
go it alone because sometimes identifying that small

1233
00:45:14,114 --> 00:45:16,514
shift is difficult. But when you get into

1234
00:45:16,514 --> 00:45:17,819
community with others,

1235
00:45:18,359 --> 00:45:20,679
then it kinda gets you thinking about those

1236
00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:23,000
things. And when you were talking about not

1237
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,299
going it alone,

1238
00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:26,219
it took me back to

1239
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:28,679
my days as a community organizer when one

1240
00:45:28,679 --> 00:45:30,219
of the most fundamental things

1241
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:32,139
that we worked on was like,

1242
00:45:32,815 --> 00:45:33,315
well,

1243
00:45:33,695 --> 00:45:36,114
who are the five people that you call

1244
00:45:36,735 --> 00:45:38,574
when something has happened in the world that

1245
00:45:38,574 --> 00:45:40,894
you're really upset about or really concerned about

1246
00:45:40,894 --> 00:45:44,434
or really worried about? That's your organizing circle.

1247
00:45:44,650 --> 00:45:45,150
Right?

1248
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:48,250
And, and I have another friend who they've

1249
00:45:48,250 --> 00:45:51,530
started doing these mutual aid communities where where

1250
00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:53,849
she lives, but it didn't start with, hey

1251
00:45:53,849 --> 00:45:56,650
guys, let's together get together and have mutual

1252
00:45:56,650 --> 00:45:58,030
aid. It actually started

1253
00:45:58,565 --> 00:46:00,345
with their buy nothing page,

1254
00:46:00,724 --> 00:46:02,644
in social media, and then they started building.

1255
00:46:02,644 --> 00:46:04,085
It's like, well, maybe we're not maybe it's

1256
00:46:04,085 --> 00:46:04,585
not

1257
00:46:04,965 --> 00:46:07,285
items that we're just trying to get rid

1258
00:46:07,285 --> 00:46:09,385
of. Maybe it's like, hey,

1259
00:46:09,684 --> 00:46:11,845
I have a great cookie recipe. Does anybody

1260
00:46:11,845 --> 00:46:13,539
wanna trade for something? And, like, that kind

1261
00:46:13,539 --> 00:46:14,980
of thing. And so I think it is

1262
00:46:14,980 --> 00:46:16,839
starting with those relationships,

1263
00:46:17,299 --> 00:46:20,280
and I think intentionally talking about those things.

1264
00:46:21,139 --> 00:46:23,460
One of the commitments I've made in my

1265
00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:25,139
space, because I'm in a space that takes

1266
00:46:25,139 --> 00:46:26,519
itself very seriously,

1267
00:46:27,219 --> 00:46:27,719
is

1268
00:46:28,385 --> 00:46:29,525
in every meeting,

1269
00:46:30,144 --> 00:46:33,025
if I haven't made people laugh one time,

1270
00:46:33,025 --> 00:46:35,025
then that has not been a successful meeting.

1271
00:46:35,025 --> 00:46:37,025
Because I think our ability to just smile

1272
00:46:37,025 --> 00:46:37,525
together

1273
00:46:37,824 --> 00:46:40,065
is extremely important. And it's not that I

1274
00:46:40,065 --> 00:46:41,585
wanna be a jokester and it's not that

1275
00:46:41,585 --> 00:46:42,944
I don't want us to take the work

1276
00:46:42,944 --> 00:46:43,444
seriously,

1277
00:46:44,099 --> 00:46:46,260
but I'll frequently tell people that I think

1278
00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:47,940
this work is too serious to be so

1279
00:46:47,940 --> 00:46:50,180
serious about it. Like, we gotta be human

1280
00:46:50,180 --> 00:46:50,840
about it.

1281
00:46:51,140 --> 00:46:52,900
And if we can laugh together, then we

1282
00:46:52,900 --> 00:46:55,380
can do other things together. So that's a

1283
00:46:55,380 --> 00:46:57,425
little thing that I try to do. I'm

1284
00:46:57,425 --> 00:46:59,905
I'm gonna I'm so glad you said that,

1285
00:46:59,905 --> 00:47:01,364
and I wanna share this

1286
00:47:01,664 --> 00:47:03,824
I wanna share this quote with you because

1287
00:47:03,824 --> 00:47:05,905
it resonates so deeply with me and with

1288
00:47:05,905 --> 00:47:06,804
what you're saying.

1289
00:47:07,585 --> 00:47:10,224
It says that joy gives us wings. In

1290
00:47:10,224 --> 00:47:12,809
times of joy, our strength is more vital,

1291
00:47:12,869 --> 00:47:15,369
our intellect keener, and our understanding

1292
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:16,969
less clouded.

1293
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:19,989
And I think that idea of, like, having

1294
00:47:19,989 --> 00:47:20,489
joy

1295
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:22,569
at the end of the day

1296
00:47:22,869 --> 00:47:25,030
is actually going to serve us and the

1297
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:27,355
work so much better. So I'm I'm so

1298
00:47:27,355 --> 00:47:29,115
glad you said that, and it's so it's

1299
00:47:29,115 --> 00:47:31,675
so important and it's so critical to to

1300
00:47:31,675 --> 00:47:34,115
continuing to do the work. Joy is radical.

1301
00:47:34,394 --> 00:47:35,914
One of my three. And it's Oh, it's

1302
00:47:35,914 --> 00:47:37,755
all good. Joy is radical. And and it's

1303
00:47:37,755 --> 00:47:39,670
hard. Right? And I think they're like, we

1304
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:41,269
could do a whole series on joy. Right?

1305
00:47:41,269 --> 00:47:42,710
And what that looks like. And I will

1306
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:43,210
name

1307
00:47:43,590 --> 00:47:45,909
that I had a really exhausting day to

1308
00:47:45,909 --> 00:47:48,090
day, not for any particular uniquely

1309
00:47:48,949 --> 00:47:50,809
exhausting reason. It's just like,

1310
00:47:51,110 --> 00:47:52,704
you go through this day and you do

1311
00:47:52,704 --> 00:47:54,864
the thing and it's tiring. And I will

1312
00:47:54,864 --> 00:47:56,644
say that this conversation represents

1313
00:47:57,344 --> 00:47:59,364
me ending my day with joy.

1314
00:48:00,704 --> 00:48:02,545
A lot to smile about here, but we

1315
00:48:02,545 --> 00:48:03,045
have

1316
00:48:03,585 --> 00:48:06,644
the most important question. Kevin is not here

1317
00:48:06,909 --> 00:48:08,989
to ask this question. So are you ready

1318
00:48:08,989 --> 00:48:11,230
for the big question? I think I am.

1319
00:48:11,230 --> 00:48:13,070
I have to say that it was probably

1320
00:48:13,070 --> 00:48:15,170
the hardest question to prep for.

1321
00:48:15,550 --> 00:48:17,550
We get that feedback all the time. It's

1322
00:48:17,550 --> 00:48:19,869
like, listen, I can talk about DEI and

1323
00:48:19,869 --> 00:48:22,454
critical race theory and anti racism. Like those

1324
00:48:22,454 --> 00:48:23,114
are easy,

1325
00:48:23,494 --> 00:48:25,175
but don't make me pick my top five

1326
00:48:25,175 --> 00:48:27,675
rappers. So let me give you, the guidelines

1327
00:48:28,135 --> 00:48:28,635
around

1328
00:48:29,175 --> 00:48:31,815
the rules around top five rappers. Okay. So

1329
00:48:31,815 --> 00:48:33,255
rule number one is that there are no

1330
00:48:33,255 --> 00:48:34,315
actual rules.

1331
00:48:35,550 --> 00:48:37,949
What it is is it's permissions that we

1332
00:48:37,949 --> 00:48:39,329
extend to you. So,

1333
00:48:39,869 --> 00:48:40,610
for me,

1334
00:48:40,989 --> 00:48:42,930
I'm a hip hop epistemologist

1335
00:48:43,309 --> 00:48:45,329
and ontologist. Like to me, I process

1336
00:48:45,869 --> 00:48:46,369
everything

1337
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:48,289
through my hip hop lens.

1338
00:48:49,734 --> 00:48:50,234
So

1339
00:48:51,894 --> 00:48:53,195
rule number one

1340
00:48:53,655 --> 00:48:55,335
is that there are no rules. And rule

1341
00:48:55,335 --> 00:48:57,094
number two is that it doesn't have to

1342
00:48:57,094 --> 00:48:59,514
be hierarchical. Hierarchy is a very

1343
00:48:59,974 --> 00:49:03,114
Western concept. It's a very white supremacist concept.

1344
00:49:03,255 --> 00:49:05,114
So it doesn't have to be a ranking.

1345
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:06,839
You can make it a ranking if you

1346
00:49:06,839 --> 00:49:08,599
want it to be, but I know that

1347
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:09,659
that's really difficult.

1348
00:49:10,039 --> 00:49:10,859
Number three

1349
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,579
is that like so many

1350
00:49:14,599 --> 00:49:16,460
things that focus on

1351
00:49:16,839 --> 00:49:17,579
the humanizing

1352
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:18,380
possibilities,

1353
00:49:18,965 --> 00:49:21,704
This is dynamic. This is fluid. So

1354
00:49:22,324 --> 00:49:23,385
this is a snapshot

1355
00:49:23,764 --> 00:49:25,784
of where you are at right now

1356
00:49:26,405 --> 00:49:28,485
with your top five. Doesn't mean this is

1357
00:49:28,485 --> 00:49:30,804
where you're gonna be next week. Right? So

1358
00:49:30,804 --> 00:49:32,244
you have a right and I know this

1359
00:49:32,244 --> 00:49:32,905
is controversial

1360
00:49:33,284 --> 00:49:35,230
in in the hip hop community

1361
00:49:35,609 --> 00:49:37,769
like people will come at you for your

1362
00:49:37,769 --> 00:49:40,010
top five if it changes, but I'm a

1363
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:42,969
disruption even within a disruption community. I am

1364
00:49:42,969 --> 00:49:43,869
giving you permission,

1365
00:49:44,250 --> 00:49:44,750
Sohrabah.

1366
00:49:45,289 --> 00:49:46,889
Your top five is whatever you think it

1367
00:49:46,889 --> 00:49:48,329
is at the moment that you think it's

1368
00:49:48,329 --> 00:49:49,704
the top five, right?

1369
00:49:51,364 --> 00:49:54,644
The next rule is that collectives can count

1370
00:49:54,644 --> 00:49:56,724
as one. So you don't have to break

1371
00:49:56,724 --> 00:49:58,105
up the Fujis, hypothetically.

1372
00:49:58,565 --> 00:50:00,244
You don't have to break up Wu Tang.

1373
00:50:00,244 --> 00:50:02,565
That that they're on my they're not number

1374
00:50:02,565 --> 00:50:04,744
one. They are on the list. See

1375
00:50:05,059 --> 00:50:05,539
See.

1376
00:50:06,179 --> 00:50:07,460
You don't have to break up Wu Tang

1377
00:50:07,460 --> 00:50:08,820
because if you broke up Wu Tang, it

1378
00:50:08,820 --> 00:50:10,739
would be a top 35 or something like

1379
00:50:10,739 --> 00:50:12,980
that. So you can't so so collectives can

1380
00:50:12,980 --> 00:50:14,980
count as one, which I think is consistent

1381
00:50:14,980 --> 00:50:15,880
with this conversation.

1382
00:50:17,155 --> 00:50:18,775
And then the last thing is

1383
00:50:19,235 --> 00:50:21,394
you can have ties. I call this Eric

1384
00:50:21,394 --> 00:50:24,195
Hale rule. Eric Hale 2021 Texas teacher of

1385
00:50:24,195 --> 00:50:24,855
the year.

1386
00:50:26,515 --> 00:50:29,155
He launched into his top five and he's

1387
00:50:29,155 --> 00:50:30,595
like, alright, I got a three way tie

1388
00:50:30,595 --> 00:50:32,280
for fifth and now I got a four

1389
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:33,420
way tie for fourth,

1390
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,960
and I was like Eric you're just trying

1391
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,699
to shoehorn 45 rappers into your top five,

1392
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,940
but we decided you know what man like

1393
00:50:41,559 --> 00:50:42,380
you disrupted

1394
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,275
our dogma so that is fully permissible. There

1395
00:50:46,275 --> 00:50:47,255
aren't hierarchies.

1396
00:50:47,715 --> 00:50:49,875
Right? There shouldn't be numbers. Well, there there

1397
00:50:49,875 --> 00:50:51,795
don't have to be. It doesn't have to

1398
00:50:51,795 --> 00:50:55,155
be. You can choose hierarchy. Okay. You know,

1399
00:50:55,155 --> 00:50:57,394
maybe a benevolent hierarchy, I guess, if such

1400
00:50:57,394 --> 00:50:58,534
a thing ever existed.

1401
00:50:58,889 --> 00:51:00,829
But so let me ask you,

1402
00:51:01,769 --> 00:51:03,210
I wanna ask you about your top five

1403
00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:06,329
rappers. We will often differentiate it. Hip hop

1404
00:51:06,329 --> 00:51:07,150
is broad

1405
00:51:07,609 --> 00:51:09,289
and there's a hip hop world that's broad,

1406
00:51:09,289 --> 00:51:11,049
and so there may not be people who

1407
00:51:11,049 --> 00:51:11,710
are rappers

1408
00:51:12,010 --> 00:51:12,750
per se.

1409
00:51:13,929 --> 00:51:16,625
But who are your top five?

1410
00:51:17,005 --> 00:51:18,465
How have they helped

1411
00:51:18,844 --> 00:51:20,704
shape your worldview, your work,

1412
00:51:21,085 --> 00:51:21,985
or your spirit?

1413
00:51:22,605 --> 00:51:24,704
Yeah. This took me like a minute.

1414
00:51:26,125 --> 00:51:27,585
I had to have many conversations

1415
00:51:28,045 --> 00:51:29,739
with my partner where he was like, oh,

1416
00:51:29,739 --> 00:51:31,500
so you're like then there's this, and then

1417
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,980
we have that you. The a consulting protocol.

1418
00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:36,160
Right? A consulting consultancy protocol. Yeah.

1419
00:51:37,980 --> 00:51:40,780
And, obviously, like, rappers can mean different things

1420
00:51:40,780 --> 00:51:42,704
to do. It's just there's so many things.

1421
00:51:42,704 --> 00:51:44,625
Right? That's a pretty good say my top

1422
00:51:44,625 --> 00:51:46,224
five, and I don't have them in order.

1423
00:51:46,224 --> 00:51:48,865
But I think the folks that helped get

1424
00:51:48,865 --> 00:51:49,605
me through

1425
00:51:51,184 --> 00:51:53,664
many, many moments in my life would be

1426
00:51:53,825 --> 00:51:57,139
I put the Fugees and Lauryn Hillis separately

1427
00:51:57,359 --> 00:51:59,679
because Lauryn Hill to this day, I would

1428
00:51:59,679 --> 00:52:00,179
say,

1429
00:52:00,799 --> 00:52:02,579
her album is like

1430
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:04,559
like, I I can listen to the to

1431
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:06,559
the whole thing, like, straight from front to

1432
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:08,719
back, and it every song resonates in a

1433
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,119
different way. I still remember when that album

1434
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,815
dropped. Oh, man. Yep. This would not I

1435
00:52:13,815 --> 00:52:15,974
would not, yeah, get it off of my

1436
00:52:15,974 --> 00:52:16,954
CD player.

1437
00:52:17,494 --> 00:52:18,715
That's right. That time.

1438
00:52:21,494 --> 00:52:24,695
Again, like, I using maybe the word rapper

1439
00:52:24,695 --> 00:52:26,920
loosely, although that might be up for up

1440
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,079
for debate. But boys to men is my

1441
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:30,380
other, like, just

1442
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:32,219
they they Boys to

1443
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:35,420
men. They raised me in so many ways.

1444
00:52:37,605 --> 00:52:38,824
They yeah.

1445
00:52:39,284 --> 00:52:41,545
I I I would say that that's probably

1446
00:52:42,565 --> 00:52:45,364
the first thing we can do. Was was,

1447
00:52:45,364 --> 00:52:47,445
like, eighth grade for me, which was a

1448
00:52:47,445 --> 00:52:49,380
very important year in my life. So yes.

1449
00:52:51,059 --> 00:52:53,699
Yeah. And, like, every, like, every love and

1450
00:52:53,699 --> 00:52:56,199
breakup was just Oh my god. It's the

1451
00:52:56,579 --> 00:52:57,319
end of the

1452
00:52:58,659 --> 00:53:01,139
road. I cried. I cried in that I

1453
00:53:01,139 --> 00:53:04,039
cried just laughing around to that song. Yeah.

1454
00:53:04,844 --> 00:53:06,525
So I hear that. And when I first

1455
00:53:06,684 --> 00:53:08,925
the when I was first introduced to my

1456
00:53:08,925 --> 00:53:11,405
to my partner, he his voice has has

1457
00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:13,885
has a boys to men, like, baritone. I

1458
00:53:13,885 --> 00:53:15,425
was like, oh, yeah.

1459
00:53:15,724 --> 00:53:17,324
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Now I know what all

1460
00:53:17,405 --> 00:53:19,070
He's like, I'll take you out for all

1461
00:53:19,070 --> 00:53:20,449
the Philly steaks you can eat.

1462
00:53:21,789 --> 00:53:22,610
Done. Done.

1463
00:53:23,230 --> 00:53:25,309
And then my so that's three Lauryn Hill

1464
00:53:25,309 --> 00:53:25,809
Fujis,

1465
00:53:26,590 --> 00:53:29,230
Boys two Men, and then my two others

1466
00:53:29,230 --> 00:53:32,130
are SWV and TLC. And those

1467
00:53:32,625 --> 00:53:34,085
those two groups are

1468
00:53:34,465 --> 00:53:36,704
oh my gosh. I can, like, hear those

1469
00:53:36,704 --> 00:53:38,625
songs now, and I am, like, in just

1470
00:53:38,625 --> 00:53:39,125
transported

1471
00:53:39,425 --> 00:53:41,204
and Yeah. Like, forever.

1472
00:53:41,585 --> 00:53:43,824
Oh, I'm sorry. I also have Envogue. I

1473
00:53:43,824 --> 00:53:45,599
have too many. Oh, I'm gonna do some

1474
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:47,679
good work on this. Well, it it sounded

1475
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:49,440
like Lauryn Hill and the Fujis were were

1476
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,380
sort of combined. Together, Estelle,

1477
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:52,339
and En

1478
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,739
Vogue. Those were all just like,

1479
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:57,664
yep. Those are my die hards. Oof.

1480
00:53:58,125 --> 00:53:59,804
Where we narrowed it down to, and it's

1481
00:53:59,804 --> 00:54:01,164
still six. So That,

1482
00:54:02,125 --> 00:54:03,425
that top five is fire.

1483
00:54:04,045 --> 00:54:05,804
And I love it because I think it

1484
00:54:05,885 --> 00:54:08,704
it's interesting that you can like, there's something

1485
00:54:08,844 --> 00:54:11,639
sorta dope when I hear these top fives

1486
00:54:11,639 --> 00:54:13,320
and you and I are probably listening to

1487
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,320
this music at the same time in our

1488
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:15,820
lives,

1489
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,079
which I love. And I always feel like

1490
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:21,639
I encourage vulnerable, like doing this top five

1491
00:54:21,639 --> 00:54:23,344
is a vulnerable act, Right?

1492
00:54:23,644 --> 00:54:25,565
Because you're exposing yourself to that. So I

1493
00:54:25,565 --> 00:54:27,164
lean into the fact that my top five

1494
00:54:27,164 --> 00:54:28,144
is always changing.

1495
00:54:28,445 --> 00:54:29,264
So currently,

1496
00:54:30,045 --> 00:54:31,505
my top five rappers,

1497
00:54:32,125 --> 00:54:32,864
J. Cole,

1498
00:54:33,484 --> 00:54:35,824
Cause and Effect, Cause of Cause and Effect.

1499
00:54:35,885 --> 00:54:38,829
Yeah. Okay. They have a dope collab that

1500
00:54:38,829 --> 00:54:40,590
I can't get enough of called Knock the

1501
00:54:40,590 --> 00:54:41,090
Hustle,

1502
00:54:41,789 --> 00:54:43,409
which is just it's about

1503
00:54:43,869 --> 00:54:44,929
it's about survival

1504
00:54:45,230 --> 00:54:47,550
and the toll that survival takes on you.

1505
00:54:47,550 --> 00:54:48,769
I'll send you the track.

1506
00:54:49,070 --> 00:54:50,829
Yeah. I'm like, I love how I have,

1507
00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:52,795
like, my post it, and I'm writing not

1508
00:54:52,795 --> 00:54:53,494
the hustle

1509
00:54:53,795 --> 00:54:56,375
on my Not not the hustle. Like, not

1510
00:54:56,634 --> 00:54:58,614
Not the hustle. Not the hustle. Yeah. Okay.

1511
00:54:58,835 --> 00:54:59,494
Yep. Correct.

1512
00:55:00,434 --> 00:55:03,014
Yep. So so there's J. Cole and Coz.

1513
00:55:03,474 --> 00:55:06,160
MC Lyte is just a forever top five

1514
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:06,800
for me.

1515
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,699
I just think that she was so underappreciated

1516
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:10,820
for

1517
00:55:11,199 --> 00:55:13,699
her breath control, her cadence, the

1518
00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:17,360
the the way her voice resonated around these

1519
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,519
lyrics. Like, she was just just a fierce

1520
00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:20,019
rapper.

1521
00:55:20,835 --> 00:55:23,735
I love Residente from, Calle Trese,

1522
00:55:24,835 --> 00:55:27,014
this amazing Puerto Rican rapper.

1523
00:55:29,474 --> 00:55:31,094
He he did a song called,

1524
00:55:31,635 --> 00:55:32,614
Latino America

1525
00:55:33,155 --> 00:55:34,195
with a bunch of,

1526
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:37,849
Mexican and South American women singers.

1527
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:40,150
I know. This is so dope. So it's

1528
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:42,389
like, I I get into this, like like

1529
00:55:42,389 --> 00:55:44,949
Spanish language hip hop that's really dope. So

1530
00:55:44,949 --> 00:55:45,449
Residente.

1531
00:55:45,989 --> 00:55:48,170
And then the indigenous rapper, Narcy,

1532
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:50,250
who's done some collaborations

1533
00:55:51,315 --> 00:55:53,954
across, like, global majority rappers. So, like, there's

1534
00:55:53,954 --> 00:55:55,494
a track that Narcy

1535
00:55:55,795 --> 00:55:56,934
does with,

1536
00:55:57,394 --> 00:55:59,175
Mos Def, Yaseen Beyenow,

1537
00:55:59,714 --> 00:56:00,214
and,

1538
00:56:00,835 --> 00:56:04,114
Shadia Mansoor, the Palestinian rapper. And it's just,

1539
00:56:04,114 --> 00:56:04,614
like,

1540
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,359
mind blowing. So I feel like I'm gonna

1541
00:56:06,359 --> 00:56:08,380
need to send send you some music. Yeah.

1542
00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:10,839
Please. I think that's something to do after

1543
00:56:10,839 --> 00:56:11,339
this

1544
00:56:11,639 --> 00:56:13,099
after this thousand percent.

1545
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,780
Oh, you're right on my phone.

1546
00:56:15,319 --> 00:56:17,239
Each of those. I wrote them all down

1547
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,175
on my on my post it. So Yeah.

1548
00:56:19,175 --> 00:56:20,855
I mean, when I go having grown up

1549
00:56:20,855 --> 00:56:22,375
with hip hop, and maybe this is something

1550
00:56:22,375 --> 00:56:23,894
that you can relate with, like, I always

1551
00:56:23,894 --> 00:56:24,635
think about

1552
00:56:25,255 --> 00:56:26,315
how these artists

1553
00:56:26,695 --> 00:56:27,835
leave their imprint

1554
00:56:29,255 --> 00:56:30,954
on structures in our societies

1555
00:56:31,255 --> 00:56:31,994
that seem

1556
00:56:32,780 --> 00:56:33,280
unbeatable,

1557
00:56:33,659 --> 00:56:36,639
right, these, like, harmful oppressive systems, but

1558
00:56:36,940 --> 00:56:38,539
it's like I've got J. Cole out there

1559
00:56:38,539 --> 00:56:39,519
leaving a tag.

1560
00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:40,699
His,

1561
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:44,460
his most recent release, the single Clouds, if

1562
00:56:44,460 --> 00:56:46,514
you haven't heard it, check it out. But

1563
00:56:46,514 --> 00:56:48,194
one of the lines that he starts with

1564
00:56:48,194 --> 00:56:50,034
is, on the bass in your trunk, the

1565
00:56:50,034 --> 00:56:52,674
bullet that mistrump, like and it's just so,

1566
00:56:52,674 --> 00:56:53,174
like,

1567
00:56:53,714 --> 00:56:55,094
it's so deep and subtle,

1568
00:56:56,194 --> 00:56:57,809
that it's like, man, you're just out here

1569
00:56:57,890 --> 00:57:00,210
disrupting stuff. And I know Cole, just like

1570
00:57:00,210 --> 00:57:02,050
any other rapper, is not perfect, but,

1571
00:57:02,930 --> 00:57:05,010
you know I think putting words to that

1572
00:57:05,010 --> 00:57:06,230
is just really powerful.

1573
00:57:08,210 --> 00:57:09,110
Sakwa Rahani,

1574
00:57:10,275 --> 00:57:12,434
I've so enjoyed this conversation. I knew I

1575
00:57:12,434 --> 00:57:12,934
would,

1576
00:57:13,234 --> 00:57:14,674
and I knew this was gonna be an

1577
00:57:14,674 --> 00:57:17,335
amazing thing. Folks, I hope that you have

1578
00:57:17,635 --> 00:57:20,034
taken notes, that you are going to the

1579
00:57:20,034 --> 00:57:21,815
Roots Connected site, that you're

1580
00:57:22,114 --> 00:57:24,699
signing up for these free webinars, bro. It's

1581
00:57:24,699 --> 00:57:28,699
free. And it's crazy that that they're giving

1582
00:57:28,699 --> 00:57:30,000
us some of this this

1583
00:57:30,539 --> 00:57:33,099
insight and this knowledge and this expertise, and

1584
00:57:33,099 --> 00:57:35,340
you can just sign up. But highly recommend

1585
00:57:35,340 --> 00:57:36,559
signing up for the newsletter,

1586
00:57:37,099 --> 00:57:38,804
and keeping up with what they're doing.

1587
00:57:39,444 --> 00:57:42,184
What are some other ways that folks can

1588
00:57:42,324 --> 00:57:45,045
follow you, connect with your ideas, connect with

1589
00:57:45,045 --> 00:57:47,125
Roots Connected's ideas, and all those kinds of

1590
00:57:47,125 --> 00:57:50,244
things? Yeah. Thanks. The best way, honestly, is

1591
00:57:50,244 --> 00:57:54,744
to get on our website, www.rootsconnected.0rg,

1592
00:57:54,909 --> 00:57:56,829
and just sign up for the listserv that

1593
00:57:56,829 --> 00:57:58,429
gets you sort of, like, these up to

1594
00:57:58,429 --> 00:58:00,670
date when are things happening. Sometimes we do,

1595
00:58:00,670 --> 00:58:02,590
like, giveaways and raffles and let you know

1596
00:58:02,590 --> 00:58:04,590
when where we are, what we're thinking about,

1597
00:58:04,590 --> 00:58:06,349
what conferences we'll be at so we can

1598
00:58:06,349 --> 00:58:08,369
connect with folks and do all of that.

1599
00:58:08,429 --> 00:58:09,570
That's the best place.

1600
00:58:10,144 --> 00:58:13,025
We're on Instagram and LinkedIn, I think, the

1601
00:58:13,025 --> 00:58:13,525
most.

1602
00:58:14,304 --> 00:58:17,025
I think we dabble in Facebook, but you

1603
00:58:17,025 --> 00:58:19,364
kind of threw some some shade at Facebook

1604
00:58:19,425 --> 00:58:21,344
earlier today. I'm throwing it at myself because

1605
00:58:21,344 --> 00:58:22,324
I'm on there too.

1606
00:58:22,945 --> 00:58:24,164
You know, we're predominantly

1607
00:58:24,704 --> 00:58:28,039
on Instagram and LinkedIn. So find find us

1608
00:58:28,039 --> 00:58:30,920
there. Find me, please, on LinkedIn too. I'd

1609
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,160
love to connect with you. If anything that

1610
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,039
we talked about resonated, just please reach out.

1611
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:37,980
I love I think, like, in in

1612
00:58:38,724 --> 00:58:41,125
in the spirit of building community, it's one

1613
00:58:41,125 --> 00:58:43,284
of my most favorite thing to do is

1614
00:58:43,284 --> 00:58:46,344
just connect with others doing incredible work. So,

1615
00:58:46,405 --> 00:58:47,304
yeah. Beautiful.

1616
00:58:47,844 --> 00:58:50,105
And I'm grateful. I'm so grateful for,

1617
00:58:50,660 --> 00:58:52,980
sharing, for connecting us, and for this space,

1618
00:58:52,980 --> 00:58:55,000
and for being able to have

1619
00:58:55,380 --> 00:58:57,860
some time together. Absolutely. It was like for

1620
00:58:57,860 --> 00:59:00,200
me too. Yeah. This is great. So,

1621
00:59:00,579 --> 00:59:01,079
folks,

1622
00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:04,019
we will take you out here in just

1623
00:59:04,019 --> 00:59:06,244
a second. So, Sakwa, what I'll do is

1624
00:59:06,244 --> 00:59:08,085
I'll ramble just a little bit, and then

1625
00:59:08,085 --> 00:59:10,724
you and I will say stayed dope together

1626
00:59:10,724 --> 00:59:12,005
because that's what we want is we want

1627
00:59:12,005 --> 00:59:14,565
people to stay dope. So for my amazing

1628
00:59:14,565 --> 00:59:18,485
guest, Sakwa Rohani, for Chiren, who introduced us,

1629
00:59:18,485 --> 00:59:22,070
for Roots Connected, this phenomenal organization that is

1630
00:59:22,070 --> 00:59:24,630
moving the needle no matter what the federal

1631
00:59:24,630 --> 00:59:26,869
government is telling us to do or not

1632
00:59:26,869 --> 00:59:27,530
to do,

1633
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:30,390
for Embrace Race for bringing us all together,

1634
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:32,890
for hip hop, for vulnerability,

1635
00:59:33,269 --> 00:59:36,434
for mindset shifts, my name is Gerardo Munoz

1636
00:59:36,574 --> 00:59:38,835
and I wanna ask you to always

1637
00:59:39,855 --> 00:59:40,675
stay performing,

1638
00:59:41,135 --> 00:59:41,954
stay excited,

1639
00:59:42,494 --> 00:59:43,394
stay joyful,

1640
00:59:43,855 --> 00:59:46,175
stay invigorated and above all make sure that

1641
00:59:46,175 --> 00:59:47,074
you always

1642
00:59:48,359 --> 00:59:49,579
stay dope.

1643
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:51,900
Perfect.

1644
00:59:52,359 --> 00:59:54,839
Alright. I almost said it too early, but

1645
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:56,539
Well, it's okay. It happens.

1646
00:59:57,079 --> 00:59:59,000
Check us out y'all. We'll catch you on

1647
00:59:59,000 --> 00:59:59,819
the other side.