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306.
Hey. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to
2 Dope Teachers and, Mike, the most dangerous
podcast in the schoolhouse.
My name is Eduardo Munoz.
And I am Kevin Adams. We're coming at
you on an emergency podcast,
to talk about a pretty important issue that's
happening in the city of Denver.
But I guarantee you,
podcast listeners from across the world, the the
global 2DOPE nation,
you probably,
are experiencing something similar in your space.
As usual, 2DOPE Teachers and Mic is brought
to you in part by Cetera Investors.
Hit up Tori and Alex.
There's a link in the notes if you
wanna plan for your financial future.
I wonder if they have a school district's
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Hit us up, Tori and Alex, if you
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You can also if you are a new
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in most places.
We are still
in
the dystopian lscape that is X,
but we're still there.
We will be in other places too, primarily
on Instagram
and on Facebook. Facebook, if your grandma wants
to follow the podcast.
So we're here
with a really important issue. And, Kev,
let's talk a little bit about some of
the broader
context,
around
a couple of things happening in Denver.
We have what's being described
by district leadership as a demographic decline,
and we also have some issues that are
that are leading to a conversation around school
closures. What context can you add
to this conversation for the listeners?
You know,
so
we've heard this phrase declining enrollment.
Right? And and, going back all the way
to my time on the district bargaining team.
And I wanted to say when we start
this conversation before, I wanna say one thing.
This all of my commentary is reflective
of as a
community member
of the Denver Public Schools,
it's reflective
of being a parent
of 2 students
who have gone through the Denver Public School
System,
since kindergarten.
Right?
It is not as a DPS
employee,
so I wanna give context. But,
this client I will I will also give
the same context.
I am,
helping to amplify this story as an independent
journalist,
as well as a DPS
alum.
I've been a student, a teacher,
a spouse, and a parent in the Denver
Public Schools.
Any of the opinions expressed here are my
opinions alone. They do not reflect any opinions
of my supervisors, the department I work in,
or,
certainly not,
district leadership, and I am recording this outside
of the workday.
Here we go, Kev.
Very, very well stated.
But but like I was saying, this phrase
declining enrollment, you know, I heard a lot
about it during bargaining, and it's and it's
an issue. And what people,
what if for people who are outside of
our our,
city, our state, declining enrollment is a situation
that probably you've seen in other school districts
where the amount of students because in our
in our state,
schools are funded
per pupil.
And,
as enrollment has dropped in our city for
a variety of reasons,
You know, our district has cited that,
they have to really consider how they're using
funds.
And so,
whether it goes to,
giving teachers raises,
whether it's now to,
schools,
and whether they stay open or not, but
also the idea of,
what sort of grade levels they will offer,
what sort of programs
they will offer. You know, this phrase declining
enrollment comes up.
And I think, you know,
our district
has said, you know, we we they they
have these projections
based on years to come. They say we're
down,
8,000, I don't know, 9000 kids. I don't
know what the exact number. You guys probably
have heard varieties of numbers. And then they're
like, but we're up
because we had,
newcomers come,
through the, recent,
migration
wave
that came.
But then they're saying you can't depend on
that because that's not serious.
But I say all that to just give
context,
to what's going on in my community,
my school community,
my children's school,
the Denver Center For International Studies.
Our,
superintendent
and,
our school board, they operate with
executive limitations. Right? This is a policy
that has been created
that that,
the school board governs
what the superintendent
does and basically kind of gives, the superintendent
orders.
And the superintendent,
it's up to him or whoever is the
superintendent to kind of,
you know,
make that happen. Right? And so
there was a
executive limitation
around school closures with declining
our schools with declining enrollment.
Right? And so
let's see.
I'm trying to remember the date. It's it's
been it's been a a hectic 2 weeks.
Oh, it's the day after the election. Am
I right? Sure was. 2, 2 days after.
2 days after. November
7th. Mhmm. November 7th. Thursday, November 7th. A
day that'll live in infamy.
Wow.
Wow. Okay.
No. No. Yeah. I mean, it's It's real.
It's real.
So, everybody's waiting for this list,
of
the superintendent's recommendation package. Right?
The recommendation
package of what's what he would recommend,
the district be do to deal with declining
enrollment.
And so
on
Thursday, November 7th, at about 5 o'clock,
An announcement was released to the community. I
had some heads up,
a little bit of heads up because my,
principal
was called to a meeting downtown.
And, you know,
we we we we had some suspicions as
to what it was about.
You know? But I knew these announcements were
coming.
And our school, Denver Center For International Studies,
was not, put on the list to be
closed outright,
but we were are being restructured or the
proposal is that our school be restructured.
And, for those who don't know, our school
is a 6 through 12
model. That's what it's always been,
since it's moved,
out of West High School,
and it was formerly known as Center For
International Studies into Baker
Middle School building,
to become what we all know and love
as the Denver Center For International Studies.
Yep. And,
the district has proposed that,
we no longer
offer grades 9 through 12
and that our students
in grades 9 through 12 can go to,
the other two high school options
in the
enrollment zone,
in the west kind of Denver area Southwest
Denver area.
One is a high school that's very close
to us.
Our kids play sports at this high school.
Right?
But then the other part of this is
the middle school at West High School, which
is a school that's very close to us
where our kids play sports.
That middle school is being closed, and those
students would be moved
to our building, and we would be d
Denver Center For International Studies,
offerings yep. Middle school offering grades 6 through
8. Yeah. So So it's a bunch of
information there, and we'll unpack it for everyone.
Some of the context I kinda wanna add
and just thanks for that, for for zooming
out and zooming in to how this trend
has visited itself on
DCIS. And I'll also name that,
you know, on a personal level, as a
teacher, I feel like I grew up at
oh, give me a second to do this.
Hold on. I've I need to pause.
Cool.
One of the things that has been,
a conversation across the country, and I've had
a chance to talk to a lot of
folks in a lot of states
about
what this kind of declining enrollment thing looks
like on the ground and for communities.
Some of the things that are being discussed
and shared are that folks are not having
the same number of kids that they used
to. Folks are not living in urban areas
in the same numbers that they were before
and oftentimes
oftentimes
get priced out of cities like Denver.
Some of the things that we know,
and I think,
Denver PSL posted,
material,
yesterday or the day before where they talk
about how critical it is
to
have working class folks
who
often work in downtown areas and work in
these urban areas
have easy access to schools for their kids.
And, like, I know that my parents took
me to school on their way to work,
and that Yep. Yep. That's like so many
other folks. So it's not as simple as
just saying, well, we're gonna we're gonna take
you out of a school that
is here and give you an option to
go to a school that's further away.
These are things that don't
serve
that the working class need to have accessible
public education.
So that's one of the issues that's come
up. There's also been a little bit of
discord. And if anyone on this call knows
what this kind of disagreement is, there's a
little bit of disagreement on the interpretation
of the demographic
trends that we're seeing. Yep. Some of what
I read is that
well, I I heard there was some pushback
from the state demographer themself,
right,
who actually said you're sort of looking at
and they're not saying that it's false, but
what they're saying is that this is one
interpretation.
There are other interpretations.
And are you considering
other interpretations of this data?
So that's something I'm I'm wanting to, chase
down. Listeners, if you have any
any any sort of studies or any access
to information that will clarify this, let us
know.
But, you know, and and I think some
of it is just common sense. Like, you
can project long term, but none of us
knows the future. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
And I think that's kind of a thing.
And then, Kev, remember when we went to
Chicago in 2019?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Actually and you went
to 2018. I think it was 2018. Shout
out to Diet.
Shout out to, to diet. So I Dirty
for justice.
Yep. And, G2 Brown and all those incredible
folks.
Yes. I've been rereading Ghost in the Schoolyard
by Doctor. Eve Ewing Yes. In the context
of this.
And so many of the issues that come
up with school closure,
and consolidation,
they have such a deep racial effect that
nobody talks about. Yep. Right? Yep. That that
it results in inequities.
The the inequities become inequitable.
Right? Yes. So Yes. It isn't that everybody's
facing the consequences of declining enrollment and,
reduced capacity of schools.
It's that
not is that some people won't be touched
by this at all. I live across this
I live across the street from a large
comprehensive Denver high school, and it's like fast
times at Ridgemont High, bro. I know that's
an old person reference. It's like they got
they got their pep rallies. Yep. They got
their their powder puff football games. They got
all the school spirit, and they their sports
teams are doing great, and they have all
these other kinds of things.
They their their their student support
has to, like, drive around on golf courts
Yeah. Because of all the different buildings. Like
Through the neighborhood also. And, all Yes. Yes.
Yes. I've heard those stories. Yeah. So it's
like
so you have
schools where
closure and consolidation is not felt even a
little bit. Yep. They knew they weren't they
they those there are schools that knew they
weren't gonna be on that list. Yeah. And
they won't be receiving any kids either because
so many of those schools I can think
of 2 very large high schools right now
Yep. That absolutely
will not be receiving students because they're already
packed to the gills. But busting at the
seams. Because teachers and and so teachers can't
even have their own classrooms. They have to,
like, be mobile teachers, like, so so that
Shout out to the CART teachers.
Shout out to the CART teachers. Y'all the
real ones, man. That's that's rough.
So that's that's one piece, and I have
a piece coming out of my substack,
soon
that
examines the role of, school choice
in the consolidation
and closure of certain schools. Yep.
You know, and one of the examples I'll
draw is that there's a middle school 2
miles away from me that,
that recently closed. It was a 6 through
8. Recently closed, and it served
it was meant to serve students from Central
Park and,
North North Park Hill. Right? Yep. Yep.
But I don't know anybody in my neighborhood
where I live who actually sent their kids
to that school. When it was open, they
sent them all to the
large middle school that's bigger than I think
all but 1 or 2 high
schools,
which is about 5 miles away.
So, you know, I think I think school
choice has has a role in this, and
we won't discuss that here.
There's a lot of issues that need to
be unpacked. And the fact of the matter
is,
that this district,
like Jeffco last year,
has not given the community a lot of
time to to read and react to what's
happening. And so we're gonna try to unpack
some things.
The other two things I wanna point out,
and I don't think this has been propagated
by district district leadership, but I just wanna
make sure people understand really clearly.
This
this trend of of declining birth rates is
not something we just found out about. Folks
have been monitoring this for clear close to
25 years.
And so one can rightfully post questions
as to whether
whether we're actually doing long term planning around
issues like this or if we're just having
a reaction. The second thing I wanna point
out, and this is on the record,
from the school board meeting,
last week,
Xochigaitan
whose, kids went to DCIS,
and who's, the board member representing Southwest,
confronted district leadership with the fact that 50%
of the schools marked for closure or consolidation
are in her district, which is overwhelmingly
children of color, 1st generation,
kids who will be 1st generation high school
graduates and 1st generation college students, and that's
a piece,
that is impossible
to hide from.
So that's a little bit of context,
but the you know, and and in my
role,
a lot of the work I'm doing in
my job is to ensure that there are
supports
for teachers to be able to,
gain new credentials and do that kind of
thing.
The superintendent mentioned that at the end, almost
like he was trying to but it's okay.
The teachers are fine,
which is wild to me.
I wanna
pivot. Kevin, anything else you wanna add to
to this kind of context and sort of
what the landscape looks like for DCIS and
DPS generally?
I mean, I think I think it's,
there's a lot of uncertainty. You know? And
it and it feels very odd,
because in a lot of ways, like in
our city, like, in a lot of cities,
I think there's this dichotomy that you point
out where, like, in some ways, everything is
booming. Right?
And this is what people brought up. You
know? Property taxes
are through the roof
in this city. It is wild Yep. How
much, you know, property taxes are up.
But at the same time stagnant.
Yep.
Yep. And and and at the say you
know, you have a district saying, well, you
know, we have
declining enrollment. We don't have enough money. We
have to put more in our reserves.
You know? But and then you ask, well,
what are we reserving for?
What what what do you what do you
know? What is what is it? We're saving
for a rainy day. I think it's raining.
It's raining.
I think it might be raining. I'm feeling
some drops. It makes me think of, like,
Pac trying to make a dollar out of
15¢, man. I would love to get back
to the times when we had to try
to make a dollar out of 15¢ because
I feel like that 15¢ is not 15¢
anymore. Yep. Nope. Nope. Yep. So we have
this incredible,
opportunity
where we are actually able to bring some
of the voices of students,
because I think what happens, and I think
they'll talk a little bit about this. I
think what happens is very frequently
the way that students experience the decisions that
we make in our classrooms, in our schools,
in in our districts,
they're usually the last ones to be talked
to about anything.
And so,
without any further ado,
I'd like to go ahead and introduce
our, our 2 student guests,
Sofia and Camilo. Will each of you introduce
yourselves real quickly?
Should I state, like, my name, my Yeah.
Grade, and my school? Yep. You can do
that. Okay. My name is Camila Gunra. I
am a senior at DCIS Baker.
Hi. I'm Sofia
Adams.
I am also a senior
at DCIS
Baker.
Yes.
And, also, I'll name that,
we have the next generation of the 2
Dope Nation right here. That's really cool. Can
you imagine if, like,
if Sofia and Tatiana started a podcast?
That would be crazy. It would actually be
it would actually be amazing. It would blow
it would blow ours out of the water.
Yeah. No. We'd be out of a job.
Yeah. There are people coming for us, in
a loving way.
Our our friend, Emil, who,
who teaches in California,
is like because I offered her the opportunity
to guest host at some point. Yes. And
she's like, yeah.
But also that might stop me from starting
my own podcast is gonna take you down.
Oh oh, yes. Yes. I mean, we gotta
have strategies to stay on top. Yeah. I
mean, we
listen. It's like even though the branches of
the tree may grow,
the tree is still the tree. That's right.
Like, it's it's how it works. Alright. So
enough of my nonsense.
So
first question I wanna ask both of you.
And, Camila, thank you for correcting my pronunciation
of your name.
So first question I wanna ask each of
you
is
when the news
dropped,
how
much of an inkling did you have that
this might happen and it might impact
DCIS?
Had you heard other conversations around school closure
or consolidation or anything that that Kevin and
I just talked about? And then the second
question is,
how did
it affect you
and your peers?
I think at least for me, I had
heard a little bit about it from Sophia
who works with the district.
So
but I didn't really
I convinced myself that DCIS wouldn't be on
that list,
just because for me, DCIS is so
amazing and
unique.
So I I
I was kind of in shock, but at
the same time, I was like,
okay, I guess I should have expected this.
And then
I was at school when I found out
because drama club was
rehearsing,
and I was just thinking of what what
I could do next. I was thinking about
what the next steps were gonna be, how
we were going to fight against it.
Sophie and I were immediately texting, try to
figure out plans, things we could do to,
help our community uplift it, but also,
remain informed and educate ourselves on it so
that we could actually
do something effective
to
kinda stop it.
No doubt.
Sofia?
So
I was at the DPS building when I
found out. I joined the board meeting,
at, like, 4:30
when it started.
I was waiting, and I was in the
car, and you could not hear anything on
the board meeting, mind I, mind you, unless
you were looking at the closed caption version.
But I was sitting in the car, and
I was waiting, watching them, like, go through
whatever topics they had.
And then I pulled up to the DPS
building, and I get inside.
Of course, they have, like, the scanners and
stuff up because they're having the board meeting.
I get upstairs
to this group I'm in called Young African
American and Latinx Leaders,
and
I sit down with everyone there, and I'm
like, oh, the board meeting's happening today.
Jade, our,
group our,
5280 coach,
she,
was like, oh, do we wanna watch it?
And I was like, sure. Let's play it.
Then we put it on,
the screen in
the meeting room we were in,
and
within, like,
15 minutes, they show the list. I'm like,
damn it.
DCIS is on it.
So I sent a text to Camilla, a
text to our group chat, and all of
our friends at our school.
And I immediately just like Camilla, I'm like,
we have to remedy this in some way.
There's a way that we can find it.
I know there
is. And I immediately like, I started texting
Magnolia and asking questions about, like, what we
could do, what,
I needed to know about not only the
engagements and stuff as well.
But yeah. And then I was also
so I had already known about the school
closures because I'm part of the student cabinet.
Specifically, that's where I work,
in student voice and leadership.
And
we had an executive meeting with
doctor Madero.
And we were talking about
the information and, like, the facts behind why
they're closing schools,
and,
I was taking notes and
listening. And then at the very end of
it,
I looked at him in the eyes. I
said, oh, I hope my school's not on
the list. And he said, well, I haven't
made the decision yet.
And then our school is on the list.
So
yeah.
How did
others
react? Like,
I'm wondering
if this news
was
disruptive
to, you know, kind of the regular activities
of the school.
What were some of your peers saying,
and those kinds of things?
I mean, it for sure was very disruptive.
In all of the different group chats that
I'm in, people were talking about it. I
had to
post a statement on the DCIS student council
page,
and that post blew up more than anything
else that's ever been posted. So it was
very much,
something that people were caring about. And when
we came into school on Monday,
the vibe was just completely different.
But I think it was actually positive in
the sense that everybody had a fighting
spirit to them.
It wasn't it wasn't sad. I think we
took that time over the weekend to feel
those emotions.
And we came back on Monday
ready to fight for our school.
Wow.
It's amazing.
Wanna
pivot a little bit,
to
to Kev to have you sort of talk
about your
your positionality
as a community member and as a parent.
Mhmm.
And
what are the things
that
what are the, first of all, what were
your reactions to things from that lens? And
then second of all,
what you know
about how these things impact parent communities?
You know,
so
I had never been through this. Right? I
had never and and I know there's some
families, unfortunately, that have been through it multiple
times. Yeah. And I think I think that's
the biggest thing. Like, as a public institution,
if this is happening multiple times to families,
if, like,
that experience happens over and over,
what are we doing? Right? And I've learned
a lot about the
the impacts on
students
who
attend who have,
school closure,
you know, the the,
mental impacts,
impacts on mental health, the impacts on,
just overall
academics. Right?
But I think as a parent,
you know, and I always joke about, like,
I've I've switched hats at work. Right? So,
like, I'd be like, I've this parent hat
Kev has his camera off, so we can't
see what hat he's actually wearing, but we
assure you that he's wearing a parent community
hat. Is it the same hat, or is
it 2 hats that
2 hats. You put, like, 2 baseball hats
on. It's a double bill. I can flip
around.
Yeah.
That's what's up. That's what's up. Yep.
But, you know,
but as a parent, you know, Sofia is
senior year. Shout out to,
class of 2025.
They they they were all they they've been
doing big stuff, so it doesn't surprise me
that, like and I know they didn't anticipate
it, but saving their school was on their
bingo card for this year. But, here surprise.
There it is, you guys.
Did you put that in your ICAP?
That senior year,
you would save your school from closure.
Gotta get that iCAP done. Yep. But but
but
my son, Takari,
is an 11th grader. Right? And and 11th
grade in our community for all students is
a is a really kind
of important
year, keystone year, because it's passages. Right? And
I think it's it's where our students really
find themselves. They begin to see themselves as,
like,
fully formed
scholars,
globally competent
individuals,
right, who can accomplish big stuff.
And,
you know, my big realization was that, like,
I I I might not see my son
do his senior presentation. Right? And I'm and
I'm so thrilled that I get to see
Sofia
and Camila and all of their friends give
their senior presentation this year. But that is
such an important part of our community. You
know, I start to think about
all of these rights of passage
that exist in our community.
And and, you know, that just hurt to
see, you know, because we have, you know,
you you know passages day. Our middle schoolers
sit there and they're like, okay. When you're
a junior, what are you gonna do your
passage on? Right? And they have to sit
there and come up with different topics
and, you know, and we build them up
to that. So, like, thinking about that bigger
thing,
thinking about the,
you know, at times I've and we've talked
about this at times that a 6 through
12 can drive you crazy. But at other
times, it's like the most beautiful
kind of thing that I can ever see
in the world. When I see seniors, I
all the time, I'm like, why are y'all
messing with middle schoolers? But, like, that's community.
That's building the relationship. And just to think
that, like, you take that part away.
And then I got into the numbers. Right?
It said, like, the plan the proposal would
be in our building,
it would go from a school this year
of 344
students to
a school of,
as a middle school only, a school of
331
students.
Hang on. Hang on.
Did you flip those numbers?
No. Are they backwards? No. Because it sounds
to me Go down.
It sounds to me
like
it's going
from one number to a
smaller number.
Yes.
Yes. It's so Make that make sense. This
is part of the solution. Right? In our
high school, all of our kids would go.
You know, but you started, oh,
the district happened to for people who were
outside of the city of Denver, Colorado.
We it it was it was it must
have been a magical moment,
because,
they announced this
Thursday,
November 5th. Oh, yeah. At at or November
7th, right, at 5 o'clock.
But at 2 o'clock,
Thursday, November 7th, they were like, we will
have a snow day tomorrow.
All different public schools, offices
will be closed. Oh, it was funny. We're
I was on the 9th floor, and
and a few of us were kinda like,
there's
some correlation. Yeah. Correlation. Like, what's going on?
I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene thinks that
that
that we can control the weather.
So, I mean, I'm not saying, but I'm
just kinda saying that.
So
Ironically but to to Camila's point, when we
you know, I came in on Monday feeling
really funky. Right? I I think I had
a a really poor attitude about it all.
And,
the one thing that lifted me
was the kids.
To to watch the kids
already rallying,
taking action. Yeah. You always said no time.
Like, they they were in full. They were
in that mode. Right? They were ready to
go.
They were locked in.
Right? And and and they knew what they
had to do, but, also,
you know,
kids talking about how important the school was
to them. Kids at times
who, you know, I'm like, do you really
like this school? Do you like anything? I
have the same question. But these kids, you
know, they they were like, nah, they they
I don't want them to close down my
school. Right. And this is all grade levels,
you know, kids expressing concern,
wanting to take action,
wanting to complete testimonials, kids,
you know, that they that Sofia
and Camilla were connecting with alumni,
you know, and then, like, family started to
connect. Right? And and it's still not the
family connection that I would love to see.
Right? But and and involvement,
because it's not every
and, hopefully, this week, we'll get to those
big numbers.
But we have had big numbers. I shouldn't
say that. But, like, I want I want
everybody because everybody really values our school community.
And and seeing all of that,
watching the kids speak before the board this,
last Thursday in our engagement sessions
was one of the most magical,
realist,
assessments that I've ever seen. Authentic,
Sage, Gerardo, like we used to talk about.
Right?
It was they were perfect.
It was DCIS
to a t. You know? And everybody who
sees it, they're like, oh, these kids are
special. You know?
We hear you. This is a special place.
Right? And so,
it's just it's been inspiring. It's and and
I've I've always will say this about DCIS.
It is a transformative community.
It changes you, like, at a molecular
level.
It changes who you are.
Like,
I'm doing I've done stuff at DCIS that
I never imagined I would do.
And it's usually rooted in, like, students being
like,
hey, mister.
That's where it always starts. Take us to
Japan.
Yeah. No. I think that's I think that's
really beautiful. And,
and I'll I'll speak from
the standpoint,
as both a parent and an alum of
DPS,
As you all may know, I did graduate
from the Manuel High School.
You both The, the beacon of the east
side.
And
closure and consolidation didn't affect
us because we had a little thing called,
court ordered busing.
And
so we didn't have school choice.
And so the enrollment at manual, even when
it dipped,
it didn't dip to the point
where it caused a desperate situation. But so
I wanna name that I never experienced firsthand
being in any school,
that faced closure
or consolidation.
But it impacted me after the fact. So
in the early 2000s,
Manuel was closed.
Yep. And That was the year after I
student taught there. Yep. Yep.
Manual is closed.
There were brilliant teachers there. Manual kids are
just dope. Like, it's just something in the
walls.
Yep. It's just like DCIS kids are dope.
The kids are dope. Let's be real. That's
right.
And
and it had an impact
on
my own sense of confidence in the education
that I had received.
What does it say about me
that my school closed? Mhmm. And then I
started looking back at every school I attended.
I went to Mitchell Elementary,
eventually closed. Closed. Went to Cole Middle School,
eventually closed. Closed. Went to Manuel High School,
eventually closed. You know what school that I
attended didn't close, Kev?
The University of Colorado at Boulder? Yeah. It's
never gonna close,
unless
the, the current the new administration has anything
to say about higher ed.
No. Steck Elementary.
Okay. Steck is still open. You're right. I
I rode the bus to Steck,
which is in the hilltop neighborhood. Yes. Yes.
That school's never gonna close. No. Those those
kids are not having that conversation. Well, they
may at some point. But,
but
so for me,
as I was kinda reflecting on this,
I was thinking about what it means. And
so I I did a little bit of
research before this conversation, then and then I'll
invite,
Camilla and Sofia to kinda comment on some
of this.
CBS News reported that families
felt shocked and betrayed
by these decisions.
Even BoardHawk,
which BoardHawk is very pro Charter, very pro
privatization,
very anti union and anti traditional education.
Even BoardHawk
wrote, school closures are not only a byproduct
of a system that doesn't work, trust
is the root problem.
Right?
And that community trust
is one of the things that's causing the
reaction because I think it would be naive
of anyone who has spent more than a
few days in DPS
to not realize the lack of trust that
exists between Denver public schools and the communities
we serve.
Education week. The harm of school closures can
last a lifetime,
new research shows. This was a report that
came out in June of 2024.
And so,
and then there in ProPublica
had
a,
a case study
of falling enrollment after the pandemic
and how these closures work. I also
saw a report somewhere that indicates that school
closures don't really work in the way that
people think they do,
that it is presented as a financial stop
gap,
but economists are very,
dubious about the about whether that actually makes
a meaningful,
financial impact on schools.
Camila or Sophia, what are your thoughts on
kind of
what what what,
mister Adams, Kev, dad? He's he's you have,
like, 3 hats just
on this, like,
episode, sir.
What are some of your thoughts on on
what he's sharing about,
about his experience as a parent as a
member of the community?
I think that,
as his child and as the sibling of
my brother, especially
Like, the sibling of your brother like it.
One of my first thoughts was like,
oh, dang. I like, I don't get to
see him.
I I'll get to see his passage, but
I don't get to see his senior presentation.
I don't get to see him graduate
and get his DCIS diploma. I don't get
to see this really
like, my brother's incredibly smart. He's so international
minded. DCIS is like a perfect school fit
for him,
and I don't get to see him get
those, like,
milestones and key points that I've seen people
get throughout the past 7 years
of my life,
if not even more than that. Yep. And
it and it really hurts because I know
the type of person he is, and I
know the type of school that DCIS is.
And I've seen him thrive in this community,
and I've seen others thrive in this community,
and I've seen legacy families be devastated
by
this decision.
I know people
who
are, like, really insanely devastated by this. And
it's
it pisses me off that that the district
is willing to do this to such a
wonderful school just because of,
the low enrollment, and
it also really motivates me to keep fighting
for it because I know how incredible this
place is. And I know that the district
choosing to throw away as to eloquently,
quote someone from our school who gave a
speech,
throwing away a trophy, a school that DPS
used to carry around, record videos on,
flaunt,
and show off that not only fits the
Denver Public Schools'
mission statement for high quality schools, but also
that just fits everything that I believe that
they stand for as a district is genuinely
disheartening all because of a number,
which is insanely wild, especially if I'm hearing
from board members and from community members and
from people in the district saying,
like, we really love the this education style.
We really we we,
think that the learning people are doing here
is,
worth it and important.
And then seeing
close
a learnings,
establishment, a school that is providing the education
after they praise it is genuinely disheartening and
honestly,
appalling. It makes me embarrassed to work for
the district too.
Just thanks so much for just being so
honest about this. Like, I think that,
a lot of times, particularly and I work
in a central office space, and
there are a lot of spaces in central
office that forget the human results of the
decisions that we make, or we kinda decenter
those things. There's a point that both of
you made, both you and, Kev made that
I think I can't put a fine enough
point on. The beauty of watching
a kid arrive at a school at age
10 or 11. Right?
Barely, like, crying at their locker. I'm still
close to, like, a former student,
who I believe let me do the math
real quick. I believe is approaching the age
of 30. I met this student crying at
their locker because they couldn't get their locker
open. I helped them get their locker open,
and we've been close
ever since. And so you you you meet
these these little kids,
right, who are just out of elementary school.
And the trajectory of being able to see
a 10, 11 year old become a 17,
18 year old ready to face the world
and filled with passion like the 2 of
you. And folks, I spent 15 years at
DCIS as a teacher.
Sophia and Camila are
exceptional,
but they're not the exception.
Right? There's a lot of kids like these
2,
at this school.
The former superintendent,
Susana Cordova,
I remember her making a visit to the
school. Kev, you probably remember when she came
to our staff meeting, and it was when
our performance numbers had dipped a little bit.
Yep. And the first thing she said to
us is,
before we talk about this this school performance
framework, I just wanna remind you that there
are great things happening
in every school, including this one. Yeah. And
so just that kind of humanizing
part is is so important, and I and
I think a 6 through 12
does
facilitate that.
I I also have a really strong bias.
I arrived at DCIS as a 30 year
old,
8 year teacher,
who
had, you know, kind of become disillusioned with
things.
And it really was the student community
that,
Yep.
Not only
restored my optimism
in the educational
process,
but also helped me grow into a bigger
and better version of myself.
And so,
you know, so so it's really tough. Camila,
what were some of your thoughts around,
what was shared about kind of the broader
impacts of
disclosure on community, on the people that you
know?
I think for me, especially as a leader
who works a lot with the middle schoolers,
it was really, really difficult to be able
to look at these kids who are looking
to you for help,
Because to them, they they're a little ignorant
on it, which you can't blame them for
because they are just kids at the end
of the day. I'm just a kid at
the end of the day.
And it's like
they look at you and they ask you
for answers and you can't give them to
to them.
So you're really just trying to fight for
them at the end of the day. You
see how every single day these kids are
looking to you for help
and you wanna help them. And I want
to
set this up. I wanna have this school
open for kids to be able to experience
it.
And for my parents as well, this was
a huge thing for me. I came to
the school
who after being bullied for years, I was
super, super quiet. I didn't wanna talk to
absolutely
anyone.
And this school opened so many doors for
me. I would not be the person that
I am today without this school.
So
the fact that I could lose
it is
heartbreaking.
Even if I'm not here next year, I'm
heartbroken for the people who come after me
Yeah. Because they're losing a chance at what
I got.
Yeah. Schools are communities.
Schools are are communities, and,
it's something to really
keep in mind.
One other question I kinda wanna bring to
you,
and
this came
in a quick conversation in one of the
community
organizations that I'm involved with.
There was concern,
among
some adults,
one adult who brought who kind of brought
this up in the meeting
that there's an idea that
DCIS kids may see themselves as being too
good to go to west.
Can you speak to that? Because I have
a feeling
that I have a feeling
that that's not the case, first of all.
But talk about what it is that and
you've kind of talked about this a lot,
but what it is that may
cause DCIS students to be like, I don't
wanna go to that school.
Why would they be saying, like, that kind
of thing? Yeah. Camille, go ahead. Yeah. No.
I I wanna I wanna preface this. When
I did reach out to West students for
the walkout,
I told them from the start that it
wasn't personal
because the truth is is that this is
not personal at all. This is about
us. This is about our community.
We don't have anything against WES. We never
have and we never will. It's because we
are our own community.
We have built something
on our own.
And to us, it is extremely,
extremely important.
So it's not that we have anything against
West kids.
I I have friends at Wes. Yeah. I
just think that what's important to us is
that we don't lose each other.
And I think by going to Wes, we're
losing that. You're breaking apart 2 groups of
people who have grown together
and who continue to thrive together
and build each other up.
Yeah. So it's it's not personal against them.
Yeah.
Not only that, but, like, DCIS
was already in West. We were already a
part of that community.
We had our time in that community, and
we served our purpose there. But now we
are not only, like, our own entity, but
we have our own school culture.
We are our own people. And I don't
like and it's like Camilla said, it's not
a personal thing at all.
West students are lovely. We've had DCIS students
transfer to West.
And
I think the main thing is, like, keeping
those communities separate because they serve different purposes.
They are for different people,
and they are focused on very different things.
And
not only are the classes different, but the
the way the schools function is completely different.
And each of these schools deserve their own
place.
Yeah. I love that. But I I would
add as a parent,
you know, that,
you
like, it's different models. Right? And the district
offered this portfolio model
where,
you know, there's choice in the types of
schools. And, you know, my my kids have
been in small schools
their entire time. They went to downtown Denver
expeditionary
school, small school model. Right? And then they
came to DCIS
because I think they felt like it was
similar
and kind of,
a programming offerings. They were familiar with the
idea of a passage because they had done
one every year at DDS.
Right?
They were familiar with that small community
feelings.
Right? Your your child is shaking her head.
We did not do passages every year. We
did one when we were in 5th grade.
Oh, okay. Alright. Well, I've It's correct. A
little bit. Podcasters,
this is,
this is a warning on what happens when
you bring your children on the show. Yeah.
Yeah. My my daughter has,
my my my they will correct you if
you don't have the information correct. Yeah. My
kid has floated the idea of a podcast
that we cohost called Shut Up, Dad. Oh,
there we go. I'd listen.
Anyway, you would listen. Of course, you would.
You're always trying to tear me down.
Uh-huh. So so having them having been in
these small schools,
you know, that continuity,
you're you're saying it feels really Yeah. And
and then I think that's like, I think
a lot of our community members and students
included
prefer a small school model. If you go
to West, if they have this based on
the numbers, if all of our high schoolers
were to, transfer over there, it's a 712
person school. And, you know, you've been at
DCIS. We had those numbers, and our conversations
then where we need to start at the
cap, right, that we were actually growing bigger
because I know
our founder of our programming,
doctor Lutz, I I think his sweet spot
is I think he says, like, right around
500
to 600 kids,
right, in the school.
But I think,
I think people have to realize that that's
what
families
were looking for,
who were coming to DCIS.
And then that a lot of the kids,
and I think, families
and students made this, but they're like, I
don't come to DCIS because of its location.
I actually come
because
it is,
of the school model because it's a small
school,
because of
Yeah.
Kev might have frozen for a second, but
that's okay.
We ball. Just interrupt me, Kev, if any
if you come back. Yeah. I think I
I think that that's just such an important
point, especially
I'm not sure that you can have
school choice and per pupil funding,
simultaneously.
It seems like one will always subvert the
other,
and that's something that just kind of came
to mind for me.
And I think kind of to your point,
to both of your points, Camilla and Sofia,
one thing
that just warms my heart to hear the
to to hear you both say
is that there's actually solidarity
between the two schools. Any of you who
have seen the video of the marches that
the students engaged in,
you if you look closely enough,
you see that there are
kids from more than one school,
who are participating
in this. And so I think some of
the
conversation
of, oh, it's just because DCIS kids don't
wanna be around West Kids. Y'all are sharing
that that's absolutely not the case, and that
serves to be very divisive. Right?
And,
it is an easy narrative to put forth
when you say, oh, they just think they're
too good good for that school. No. They're
friends. They respect each other. And in fact,
students at the other school
are also
marching
for
the right for both schools to remain who
they are.
So it's it's beautiful stuff. So we've seen
some of the action taken.
Gonna take a quick pause. When we come
back,
you will hear from,
from especially from Camilla and Sofia
how
you can support what actions they're looking
to take, but what actions frankly they need
from adults.
Stay with us here
on 2 Dope Teachers and a Mic.
Welcome back everybody
to Tudo Teachers in the Mic, where we
remix the conversation
on race, power, and education.
We don't know if Kev is still frozen.
So I guess we'll find out at some
point.
It's wild.
Technology, it's beautiful.
So
first of all, I just wanna express a
lot of gratitude
to Camila Sofia and to Kev, who, you
know, who's worn multiple hats on this episode,
For bringing this story forth, I think
one of the things that
folks
like
and you may feel
a little tugging in your brain where you're
like,
okay. But yes. But there's a demographic reality,
and the reality is that schools are underfunded,
and there's these things that have to be
addressed. Sure. That's fine.
The the thing I would push you to
do,
listeners, dear listeners,
is
to put aside
the numbers and the statistical data that's being
presented to you because data has an opinion,
and data is not neutral. And so it's
important for you for you all to also
center the stories,
the counternarrative
to the narrative
that is happening not just in Denver public
schools, but in schools across the country.
We have to challenge challenge them with the
stories. When my battery in my car dies,
I can replace it with another battery. I
don't have to worry about the feelings of
the battery that I replaced, and I don't
have to worry about the feelings of the
battery I purchased and put in my car.
Right? These are human beings we're talking about.
It is not a matter of switching out
fuses
and, just up uprooting
a tree and planting it somewhere else. And
in fact,
in fact, when you transplant plants, sometimes it
doesn't work because it's not the right soil
for them. Anyway, I'm gonna end that metaphor
before it gets completely out of control.
Let's talk a little bit about action. What
are the things that you need
from your peers
in the district,
from the adults
in the district, not just in your community,
but also,
in
school level or district level this, decision making
spaces? What do you need?
I think one thing that we talked about
a lot was,
that students are very creative.
And when Sofia and I were looking at
this issue, we understood that we can't just
complain, we can't just say that this isn't
fair because the truth is we understand numbers.
We do, we understand that those are things
that run the district.
And so,
we were looking at a lot of solutions
and in doing so we've reached out to
a lot of similar communities to ours like
DSISD
who, focuses on that will close.
On another school that will close that actually
focuses a lot of their learning on cultural
aspects as well
and having end product and whatnot.
And that's a community that meshes really well
with ours. For them, their concern is that
DCI or DPS is having them go to
east or that's their
the school that they're directing them towards. And
for those kids, they are used to a
small community.
And DCIS is opening their arms to them.
We're saying, you guys can come to us.
We're hoping that we can help, find other
solutions. We were looking at South, which right
now has a lot of students. They have
700 freshmen.
And one thing that we were told by
South students was that a lot of those
students are struggling to learn English because of
the large class sizes. They aren't getting the
support that they need.
And so,
one thing that we're doing is we're doing
a lot of research. We're looking at ways
that we can support other communities around us
that would, be integrated well into our schools.
So I think one thing that we would
ask of DPS is, considering students' voices when
making these decisions, even before making these decisions.
When looking at the schools on the list,
I think it'd be appreciated by communities if
we saw members of VPS in our schools
before these decisions were made, looking at our
programs, looking at us as people rather than
just numbers.
I think that that way people would take
it a lot less personally.
And we would try to understand
their perspective a little bit more, but because
we were just viewed as numbers
and it was clearly seen that we were
just viewed as numbers, people took this extremely
personally.
And so when we ask from our community
members and what we have been asking of
people from other schools
is to,
sort of consider our school
and to
sort of help us look for other schools
that
would thrive in our community.
I don't know if Sofia wants to add
something else, but that's kind of That's brilliant
stuff. That's brilliant stuff. But what I'm hearing
from you is a lot of out of
the box thinking.
And, you know, one of the things that
we know about large organizations,
especially school districts,
is that oftentimes,
they
we attempt
to solve persistent problems with the same solutions
that we've used before.
And if the data's telling us
that this doesn't function in the way that
we think it will, I think we need
to,
change our approach.
So thank you for that, Camilla. Sofia?
Yeah. I a 100% agree with what,
Camilla was saying. Like, not only
there's a reason why small schools exist.
Small schools serve a purpose for communities that
can't,
for individuals who can't handle
being in a larger setting, who need more
support,
who
need
specific help with specific things that bigger schools
cannot provide. And taking away that option, which
is what DPS is trying to do right
now,
causes harm to students. There are schools at
25%
capacity,
that or even smaller that are not on
the school closure list
while DCIS is.
There are,
communities that are specifically
made for students
who are
part of minority groups or who need,
support when it comes to neurodivergency
that are being closed, that are being put,
down simply because of a number.
There are other solutions
than school closures.
I will say that, and I will say
it again. There are other solutions than school
closures.
Financially, you can move stuff around. You can
figure that out easy. That doesn't harm community.
That doesn't impact those people. I understand
the purpose of school closures in our district,
but what really
makes them,
harmful is what you're doing to those communities,
what you're doing to those families who have
been sending their children there for years and
years years.
There are families who
there there's someone in our community who started
going to DCIS in 2006,
graduated,
and then is now
sending her daughter from 6th grade to our
school,
starting in 6th grade. Yeah. You're taking away
that opportunity that DCIS experience,
the experience that not only all of our
alumni have, that our current students have,
that,
their
that future students can have, that families have
at DCIS, you're taking that away.
You're taking that away for DSISD,
for,
other small schools on the list for West
Middle School. You're taking away that community aspect
and that community that is already thriving even
if it is not,
seen through numbers like how the district wants
to see it.
And trust me,
I've told the board this, and I'll tell
them this again.
For DCIS, I'm willing to find your numbers.
Other schools, I'll help them find their numbers
if they ask for it. But
something that cannot happen is,
taking away these smaller communities
that are serving their students well, especially when
DCIS
has been walked around as a trophy,
has had
amazing students graduate from it,
and
has also,
inspired and created opportunities
like this
for students like me and Camilla, as well
as our 5280 students
and
other,
people in our community. You can't just take
that away.
Well,
Kev, I feel like that
might be a good place.
Yeah. I I think so. But I just
wanna add this, and I think that,
you know, Sofia Kavila
brought this
up. It's it's also and and I think
this has been the experience that I've seen
whether it was last year with the small
schools plan, whether it was 3 years ago
with AIAD or
the closure of AIAD.
Right? Whether it's,
Montbello restructuring,
whether it's,
you know, what happened at manual. Right? There's
been a process, and and I'm going
It has been a process indeed.
I think what Kev was probably gonna say,
and interrupt me, Kev, as soon as you're
back.
Am I back? You are back. Okay. So
but, like, what I've said is is
they
have rushed this process.
It feels very rushed. There was no kind
of warning to our community.
No sort of like, hey. This is this
is something that's being considered.
I would love to have some back and
forth. You know, our our superintendent,
doctor Marrero,
has has not come to our community. And
as far as I know, his plan is
to come
on fry on Thursday
21st,
from 7:30 to 9:30
to really just tell us, and and it's
supposed to be a session to answer questions.
Right? And so I I I think in
a district that says
students first. Right?
In a district that, has has trained its
leadership to say, you know, we want some
junkyard dogs. Junkyard dogs find solutions.
That's right. Junkyard dogs find solutions.
They work to find solutions. They don't they
don't go with the easy
kind of, of
solution of just saying, well, we'll close down.
We'll move these kids around.
You know, I love your plant metaphor because,
you know, anybody as a as a person
who loves to garden,
you do transplant
plants.
It there's some shock. Some plants
recover from that shock really fast.
Others, they might die.
Right?
And and and and
I don't wanna be too drastic, but, you
know, this is my family.
These are my kids. Right? Whether they are
my biological
kids
or the kids that I've my chosen
family
at my school.
You know, like, I I and and that's
why I admire the kids, and and I
you can't
you can't go down without a fight even
though, you know, I mean, Tyson made it
8 rounds.
It
no. Sorry. He was around. Greg
Greg Greg Greg Greg. Listen. I I I
just wanna say that I watched
Mike Tyson
knock out Michael Spinks in 83 seconds, like
Yes. Back in the day.
Like, that
that boy with the crazy hair was just
lucky to get out with his life because
if he had fought my prime Mike Tyson
if he had fought Mike Tyson 15 years
ago It would have been over. It would
have been think he would have been among
the living
at that point.
But, yeah, I mean, I I I think
that's such an important,
piece, you know, for me as a person
whose
whose job it is to manage some of
the impacts of
these closures slash
consolidations.
Are we really living by the values that
we espouse?
Yep. Right?
Are we you know, and it's interesting.
So the junkyard dog thing is a reference
to,
a book that the the district leadership read
last year called Ruthless Equity by Ken Williams.
I don't know. I leave it to y'all
to draw opinions on that book. But one
of the things that, mister Williams argues
is that in pursuit of equity,
one has to be ruthless, and you have
to be junkyard dogs that fight for
the best opportunity for everybody.
It also occurs to me that
nobody thinks nobody sees themselves as the status
quo. Right? Yep. Like and so I think
it's really important for critical conversations to happen
with community and with students
around what is the status quo that we're
trying to break,
and
are our actions
aligning
to the things that we say we believe
in?
Sophia, Camilla,
thank you for bringing your powerful voices to
this platform.
I think you should come back soon and
give us an update on the work that's
going on, and feel free to bring any
other of your fellow activists,
to
to come back to the spot.
Kev, thank you for doing
the gymnastics required,
to be on this show today, man. Bet
y'all didn't know Kev was a gymnast, intellectual
gymnast.
Yeah.
Well, thank you all for being here,
and
we will we will keep this stuff coming.
Folks, if you're interested in learning more about
community response
to, the closure and consolidation
announcements in Denver Public Schools,
you should follow on,
Instagram,
and on other social media platforms.
They are the organization formerly known as Padres
enjovines unidos.
They are doing some very important,
story sharing and amplification of the impacts on
communities.
Also,
DPS board meetings are open to the public.
And if there's no room for you to
walk into the space,
the they do stream online, and, DPS Wi
Fi in central is pretty good.
Yep. And so
I I really recommend that y'all check this
out. A lot of y'all have reached out
to us, especially in light of the election,
which we didn't even talk about. Yeah. A
lot of you have reached out to us
asking,
you know, how do I get more involved
in policy? How do I learn about policy
decisions that could impact my community?
The first thing is attend these school board
meetings.
And if you're brave,
not brave, if you are standing on your
business
Standing on big business.
Yeah. That's right.
Sign up for public comment. You need to
do it ahead of time, but you can
get 2 minutes to speak uninterrupted
to the board. So do that kind of
stuff. Any anywhere else that y'all would recommend
going to learn more and to engage?
There is an Instagram called the DCIS student
council Instagram.
Please check it out. We're just
seeing active updates,
student testimonials,
a bunch of stuff. I think there's dots
in there. I don't know the exact at.
Camilla, you should probably say that. I do
have the at. Hold on. It's called d
it all lowercase.
It's called
dcis.
Student council.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah. It
is. Got it. You can follow me at
silori.asf
on Instagram.
I'm posting active updates about everything going on.
And
yeah. But isn't there isn't there a for
for family members, DCIS,
family froze again.
What did I You froze. I was hearing
you just fine. But is there's a website,
right, where people can fill out that survey,
that they're trying to get as many families
to fill out their survey about what they
would do if DCIS closes.
Yes. That's a really good point. We have
something called the DCIS,
or Save DCIS
site. It's a Google site.
And on there, we have a lot of
different documents that talk about what's happening. And
with that, we also have a survey
that, DCIS families should fill out and students
that gives us a percent of how many
students would actually move to West High School
and how many students would stay at DCIS
Middle School if the West High or West
Middle School were to transfer over.
So
Great.
Well, folks,
there you have it. Check the show notes
for links and information,
and, we will anxiously
await updates and bring you updates as soon
as you have them.
Peace out. 2 Dope Nation. Stay dope.