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Attention dedicated educators.

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As the school year kicks off, now is

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the perfect time to take control of your

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financial future.

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That's why I wanna introduce you to a

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trusted financial advisor who specializes in working with

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educators like you.

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Meet Alex Sierra, a certified financial planner with

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Cetera Investors.

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Alex provides educators with planning for their most

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important financial decisions. He has a deep understanding

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of the important strategies related to teachers and

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our retirement.

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The school pension system and retirement systems that

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are especially made for teachers.

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By taking the time to go and work

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with Alex, you can lay a solid foundation

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for your financial goals and secure

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a brighter future. Don't let the busyness of

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the school year hold you back from achieving

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your financial dreams.

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Visit Alex's website at www.torreyandalex.cetera,

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ceterainvestors.com/

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2dope, t o o d o p e.

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Make sure you spell that out, to schedule

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an initial virtual consultation.

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And here's the best part. If you mention

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the discount code 2dope, during your first consultation,

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you will receive a 25%

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off discount on their subscription

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based subscription based

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financial planning packages.

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Click the link in the description

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section of this podcast for more information about

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Alex and Cetera Investors. You can also find

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information about their great work for educators,

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at tudopeachers.com,

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as well as on our Patreon page.

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Remember,

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your financial success is just as important as

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your student success. So start putting together your

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financial

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plan today.

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Cetera Investors is the marketing name of Cetera

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Investment Services. Securities and insurance products are offered

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through Cetera Investment Services, LLC

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doing insurance business in California as CFGSTC

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Insurance Agency,

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LLC.

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Member,

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FINRA

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slash SIPC.

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Advisory services are offered through Cetera Investment Advisors,

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LLC,

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California

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insurance license number 0L05650.

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Alexander Sierra, CFP,

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is located at 155 North Lake Avenue, Suite

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430,

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Pasadena,

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California, 91101

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and can be reached at phone number 626-408-1333,

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extension

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306.

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What is going

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on everybody?

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Welcome back to 2 dope teachers

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and a mic, the most dangerous podcast in

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the schoolhouse.

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It is I, Gerardo Munoz, your Elosopher

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King.

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I am back.

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It's been a really long absence,

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and,

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I hope to chop that up a little

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bit for you,

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today before we get into a great interview.

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If you are new to the show, welcome

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to Dope Nation

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Has No Borders.

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We have an open border policy, which is

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not popular to say during an election year.

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But we don't really care. We're not running

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for election except

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to win the election for your hearts

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and minds.

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That's what we're hoping to do. But if

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you are new, you can follow us on

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most social media platforms at Twodoteachers.

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We are on Instagram. We are still on

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x formerly known as Twitter.

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Although I don't even know why anymore.

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We're on,

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TikTok because I'm still waiting for Chris Dear

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to teach me how to make a TikTok.

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I might just start messing around. It might

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just be ugly for a little bit.

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We're also on Facebook. Like us at 2

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Dope Teachers and Mike.

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You can also send us an email, 2dopeeteachers@gmail.com.

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And

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you know, it'd be really dope if we

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got some financial support. I know that we've

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been a little bit AWOL over the last,

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almost 7 months.

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And I'm gonna talk a little bit about

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that as we, as we dive in today's

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episode

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with,

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with the author of Daphne Draws Data,

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Cole,

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Cole Nussbaummer at Netflix.

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We'll have that interview for you in just

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a moment. But,

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head over to patreon.com/tudopeteachers.

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We actually support a couple of creators there,

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even though we've lost some of our financial

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support. It's just really important that creatives all

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support each other. So please feel free to

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head over there

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and support us.

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Okay.

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I have a little bit of a trigger

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warning for you.

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The next few minutes

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will deal with death and loss and

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grieving and mental health struggles.

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And

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I understand that these are not abstract,

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topics

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for a lot of us out here, including

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me.

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They're real.

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They exist for real.

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And,

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you shouldn't have to deal with grief

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and trauma and loss

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outside of your own terms.

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So feel free to jump ahead a few

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minutes if this is just not something you're

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here for. But I wanna get a few

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things off my chest.

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I wanna talk about,

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why it's been such a long absence, why

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it's been since the end of February, since

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you've heard from us. The last episode

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that we published was with

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one of my colleagues, the amazing,

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doctor Richard Charles,

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chief of information and technology.

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I like to call him the minister of

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information,

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in my school district. Just just a wonderful,

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thoughtful,

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smart guy,

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who I'm just so lucky to know. So

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you can check that out, but if you

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haven't heard anything from us since then, there

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hasn't been anything since then. It's been a

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lot going on and those of you that

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I'm closer to may know this a little

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bit.

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Also Kevin's not here. I'll talk a little

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bit about that as well in this open.

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So the so

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I'm getting close to

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actually

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mating mating

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making this thing happen that I've been working

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towards over,

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over the last,

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you know, almost 4 years. Well, 3 years,

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I'll say 3 years,

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working on my PhD.

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I actually am now at this recording finished

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with coursework.

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It's kind of crazy to be here. I've

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taken a lot of classes.

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I got to a point in the spring

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where it was like,

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okay,

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I can either just keep on taking 2

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classes at a time and do the best

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that I can and just finish when I

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finish, or

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I can just bite the bullet

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and get through it

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and make it happen

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for myself.

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I talked to my advisor.

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I said,

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I think I can take 4 classes

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because it's just 9 weeks. It's gonna be

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okay.

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And she kind of looked at me and

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said, well, I mean it's gonna be a

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lot but if you think you can do

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it, do it. So I guess your plan

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is you'll just

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die and then

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be done.

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And so and I knew I would have

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to take a summer class too. So I

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took a summer class in an independent study,

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and I finished my coursework. I I think

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that makes me ABD all but dissertation,

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and that's kinda cool and some of us

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in my cohort are entertaining the possibility. You

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know, a b d is not bad. A

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b d is not bad. We can stay

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a b d.

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But now I'm kinda getting into the really

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accountable part. And in a lot of ways,

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the harder part, which is writing my dissertation.

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Trying to make some time, trying to set

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time aside. I've got a writing support group.

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We meet once a week over lunch and

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we just write and we take care of

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what we need to take care of and

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that's been really cool. It's actually made me

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want to write more, and I'm feeling really

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motivated. But essentially between January August, I took

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8 classes, 8 or 9 classes.

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And now I'm kinda done and now I'm

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kinda done with taking classes like I know

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there's a lot of us and especially,

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members of Tudo nation are intellectuals. We love

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to learn. We love to have new experiences

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and uncover new knowledge.

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And, many of us, my myself included have

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said at times,

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man, I could just stay in class forever.

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I just wanna take classes forever. I could

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be in school forever.

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And,

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you know what y'all?

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I think I cannot

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be enrolled in a class in school for

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a while.

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I think I think that's okay. I don't

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mind right now because I'm exhausted.

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That took a really heavy

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toll.

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In that time my father's

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health declined

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pretty significantly and he had been out here

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about a year ago

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to watch my kid graduate high school. It

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was so beautiful to have him here. It

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was also amazing that he was here in,

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spring of 2023

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to watch the Denver Nuggets not only eliminate

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the Lakers by a sweep.

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Sorry not sorry to my, to my Lakers

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fans

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slash citizens of 2 do 2 dope nation.

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We had our whole basketball life together and

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he introduced me to basketball and in a

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lot of like in a lot of ways

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not not even a lot of ways. He's

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the reason that basketball came into my life.

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And, so it's just beautiful and healing for

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that to occur. So but ever since he

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had come out, I had started to see

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some of the signs. He his health

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had been declining. His mental capacity

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was

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declining.

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Turns out that in American society and in

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a white supremacist,

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place,

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it's hard to be a small under educated

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brown man. Really intelligent and under ended an

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undereducated

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brown man.

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I was in the Seattle area visiting family.

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My amazing niece, shout out cat,

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graduated high school in June and I think

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at this recording has now started college.

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Shout out to my little sister,

281
00:10:55,149 --> 00:10:57,710
who gets to it's not an empty nest

282
00:10:57,710 --> 00:10:59,330
that house is never an empty nest,

283
00:11:00,590 --> 00:11:02,370
but has one of,

284
00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:03,649
her babies,

285
00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:06,049
miles and miles away,

286
00:11:06,914 --> 00:11:08,215
which I can relate to.

287
00:11:08,674 --> 00:11:10,615
I was out there for my niece's graduation

288
00:11:10,674 --> 00:11:10,914
and,

289
00:11:11,955 --> 00:11:13,554
and my dad's health was really bad. I

290
00:11:13,554 --> 00:11:15,014
don't even know

291
00:11:15,554 --> 00:11:16,934
if we had many conversations

292
00:11:17,315 --> 00:11:17,815
there.

293
00:11:18,674 --> 00:11:20,980
He had been dealing with a lot of

294
00:11:20,980 --> 00:11:21,639
things including,

295
00:11:22,899 --> 00:11:24,840
dialysis for almost 10 years

296
00:11:25,540 --> 00:11:25,860
and,

297
00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:29,240
and complications from diabetes.

298
00:11:30,019 --> 00:11:32,580
He had recently had toes on one of

299
00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:35,639
his feet amputated and the infection spread. So

300
00:11:35,735 --> 00:11:37,175
when I was out there, he had to

301
00:11:37,175 --> 00:11:37,654
have,

302
00:11:38,055 --> 00:11:40,295
most of his lower leg amputated to stop

303
00:11:40,295 --> 00:11:40,955
the infection.

304
00:11:41,815 --> 00:11:43,495
I could sense that he was defeated. He

305
00:11:43,495 --> 00:11:44,475
was even joking,

306
00:11:46,055 --> 00:11:48,855
you know, before they admitted him where someone

307
00:11:48,855 --> 00:11:50,610
at where the admitting nurse asked

308
00:11:51,409 --> 00:11:53,649
him, how tall are you? And he said

309
00:11:53,649 --> 00:11:54,149
short.

310
00:11:55,169 --> 00:11:57,329
And we kind of laughed. My dad always

311
00:11:57,329 --> 00:11:58,470
had a sense of humor.

312
00:12:00,209 --> 00:12:01,269
On June 27th,

313
00:12:02,850 --> 00:12:04,414
at about 9:12

314
00:12:04,875 --> 00:12:06,654
pm while I was on a

315
00:12:07,115 --> 00:12:08,095
desperate flight

316
00:12:08,475 --> 00:12:10,174
to get to him,

317
00:12:11,434 --> 00:12:12,414
as he

318
00:12:13,035 --> 00:12:16,095
went into cardiac arrest after a dialysis treatment.

319
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:24,809
My wife went to be with the ancestors.

320
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:29,830
I wasn't there at the moment that he

321
00:12:29,830 --> 00:12:31,129
took his last breath.

322
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:35,024
I'm mad because my flight was an hour

323
00:12:35,024 --> 00:12:35,524
late

324
00:12:35,904 --> 00:12:39,024
taking off out of DIA and part of

325
00:12:39,024 --> 00:12:41,745
me feels like if it had left on

326
00:12:41,745 --> 00:12:43,585
time, I would have at least been there

327
00:12:43,585 --> 00:12:45,365
to watch him take his last breath.

328
00:12:48,339 --> 00:12:49,399
And he's gone.

329
00:12:51,460 --> 00:12:53,139
So I was this I was quite a

330
00:12:53,139 --> 00:12:53,639
scene,

331
00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:55,960
running through the airport,

332
00:12:58,820 --> 00:13:00,500
on the phone with my sister, on the

333
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:01,559
phone with my wife,

334
00:13:02,659 --> 00:13:03,159
crying.

335
00:13:07,404 --> 00:13:07,904
Y'all,

336
00:13:09,644 --> 00:13:12,044
and I'm in therapy now. I I actually

337
00:13:12,044 --> 00:13:14,605
had gotten myself set up with a therapist

338
00:13:14,605 --> 00:13:16,125
when I was on my way out to

339
00:13:16,125 --> 00:13:17,825
be with him that last time.

340
00:13:18,769 --> 00:13:20,769
And I'm glad that I'm in therapy now.

341
00:13:20,769 --> 00:13:22,850
Please do therapy. Don't do therapy because you're

342
00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:24,070
going through a hard time.

343
00:13:24,690 --> 00:13:25,910
Do therapy because

344
00:13:26,769 --> 00:13:28,149
you need it for your

345
00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:30,470
for your mental, psychological,

346
00:13:31,649 --> 00:13:32,950
contentedness conditioning.

347
00:13:33,570 --> 00:13:35,945
Like if you're gonna compete in the Olympics,

348
00:13:35,945 --> 00:13:37,384
you don't just start going to the gym

349
00:13:37,384 --> 00:13:39,144
the day before your first match. Like, you

350
00:13:39,144 --> 00:13:40,524
have to be doing it consistently.

351
00:13:40,904 --> 00:13:42,904
So when you're strong, when you're challenged the

352
00:13:42,904 --> 00:13:43,404
most.

353
00:13:43,945 --> 00:13:44,345
And,

354
00:13:45,065 --> 00:13:46,605
I think I will always

355
00:13:46,985 --> 00:13:48,399
I think I'll be in therapy for the

356
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,159
rest of my life and that's not a

357
00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:51,539
bad thing. It's a good thing.

358
00:13:51,919 --> 00:13:52,980
Please do it.

359
00:13:55,199 --> 00:13:55,699
So

360
00:13:57,919 --> 00:13:58,720
grief is,

361
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:00,419
a wild thing.

362
00:14:01,235 --> 00:14:02,215
And then compounded

363
00:14:03,554 --> 00:14:06,375
with my job which has extremely high pressure

364
00:14:06,434 --> 00:14:08,595
in the summer to put on our new

365
00:14:08,595 --> 00:14:10,754
educator event. Check out my LinkedIn. I was

366
00:14:10,754 --> 00:14:12,134
really proud of that event.

367
00:14:13,634 --> 00:14:14,134
And,

368
00:14:15,190 --> 00:14:17,750
you know, getting my kid ready for their

369
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:21,269
2nd year of college and, you know, I've

370
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:22,329
heard other parents

371
00:14:23,029 --> 00:14:24,949
whose kids have moved on to college say

372
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:26,389
you never really get used to it and

373
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:27,990
it's true. Like, we didn't have as much

374
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:29,690
stuff to buy. It wasn't as stressful,

375
00:14:30,134 --> 00:14:32,934
But I'm still not used to leaving without

376
00:14:32,934 --> 00:14:33,675
my kid.

377
00:14:35,654 --> 00:14:37,355
So we did that and

378
00:14:39,575 --> 00:14:41,274
and I started missing y'all.

379
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:43,700
I had made so many other things so

380
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:46,179
much more important, and I hadn't set time

381
00:14:46,179 --> 00:14:47,399
aside for

382
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:50,259
the listeners of 2DOPE nation. And I just

383
00:14:50,259 --> 00:14:51,240
have to, like,

384
00:14:52,340 --> 00:14:54,440
express gratitude to all of you,

385
00:14:55,299 --> 00:14:55,799
because

386
00:14:56,884 --> 00:14:58,404
there are some of you who continue to

387
00:14:58,404 --> 00:15:02,565
financially support us even considering how inconsistent we've

388
00:15:02,565 --> 00:15:03,065
been

389
00:15:03,524 --> 00:15:04,024
over

390
00:15:04,325 --> 00:15:06,085
the last really the last couple of years

391
00:15:06,085 --> 00:15:07,845
since I left teaching and since Kev became

392
00:15:07,845 --> 00:15:09,065
an assistant principal.

393
00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:11,559
But especially in the last few months. And

394
00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:13,019
then I went into our podcasting,

395
00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:16,220
our hosting platform that gathers our stats.

396
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,500
Y'all are still accessing our stuff

397
00:15:20,039 --> 00:15:22,199
to the tune of of 30 to 50

398
00:15:22,199 --> 00:15:23,419
listens a day.

399
00:15:25,575 --> 00:15:28,394
Am I and I'm just speechless about that

400
00:15:28,774 --> 00:15:31,894
because people are are still hoping to hear

401
00:15:31,894 --> 00:15:32,394
us

402
00:15:32,855 --> 00:15:35,175
take the air regardless of how long it

403
00:15:35,175 --> 00:15:36,955
takes. So I just wanna extend some gratitude

404
00:15:37,095 --> 00:15:37,754
to you

405
00:15:38,179 --> 00:15:40,419
and to give you a commitment that these

406
00:15:40,419 --> 00:15:41,559
stories really

407
00:15:42,019 --> 00:15:43,079
matter to me.

408
00:15:44,259 --> 00:15:45,959
Gonna take a quick break,

409
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:47,940
and when I come back I'm gonna talk

410
00:15:47,940 --> 00:15:50,595
about some changes that you're about to see

411
00:15:50,595 --> 00:15:52,914
in 2Dope Nation, on the 2 Dope Teachers

412
00:15:52,914 --> 00:15:54,855
in a Mic podcast, and 2 Dope productions

413
00:15:54,995 --> 00:15:55,495
overall.

414
00:15:56,355 --> 00:15:57,815
And we're gonna talk about

415
00:15:58,274 --> 00:15:59,495
Daphne Draws data.

416
00:15:59,955 --> 00:16:01,955
Stay with me on 2 Dope Teachers in

417
00:16:01,955 --> 00:16:02,309
a Mic.

418
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:08,490
So Lotte might be asking yourselves,

419
00:16:09,429 --> 00:16:10,570
where's Kev at?

420
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:12,889
Where where is Kev?

421
00:16:14,149 --> 00:16:16,235
Is Kev disappeared? Has

422
00:16:16,615 --> 00:16:17,995
he renounced his citizenship?

423
00:16:18,615 --> 00:16:19,434
He is not.

424
00:16:20,934 --> 00:16:23,654
Kev and I stay really close. We're both

425
00:16:23,654 --> 00:16:25,175
really close and and at some point we're

426
00:16:25,175 --> 00:16:27,899
gonna bring you a conversation between us where

427
00:16:27,899 --> 00:16:29,360
we talk about how much,

428
00:16:30,379 --> 00:16:33,899
our mindsets have shifted since leaving the classroom.

429
00:16:33,899 --> 00:16:35,580
Now Kevin is still in a school as

430
00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:36,720
an assistant principal,

431
00:16:37,419 --> 00:16:39,360
which is a beautiful thing because

432
00:16:39,980 --> 00:16:41,519
even though being an administrator

433
00:16:42,225 --> 00:16:44,384
can be almost as thankless as being a

434
00:16:44,384 --> 00:16:44,884
teacher,

435
00:16:46,625 --> 00:16:49,105
you know, we need people like Kevin going

436
00:16:49,105 --> 00:16:49,845
into leadership

437
00:16:50,144 --> 00:16:52,384
and being there for kids. And so just

438
00:16:52,384 --> 00:16:54,865
like if you see him in life, if

439
00:16:54,865 --> 00:16:57,149
you are connected to him at all, you're

440
00:16:57,149 --> 00:16:58,750
not gonna see him on social media. This

441
00:16:58,750 --> 00:17:00,209
is not where he does this thing.

442
00:17:01,309 --> 00:17:03,149
Give him a shout, tell him what's up,

443
00:17:03,149 --> 00:17:04,609
tell him he's still too dope.

444
00:17:05,230 --> 00:17:07,884
We're changing the format a little bit here

445
00:17:07,884 --> 00:17:09,505
at 2 Dope Teachers and a Mic,

446
00:17:10,045 --> 00:17:12,224
because of the overwhelming,

447
00:17:13,085 --> 00:17:15,484
pressure that we both have, in our day

448
00:17:15,484 --> 00:17:17,404
to day work and how exhausted we often

449
00:17:17,404 --> 00:17:17,904
are.

450
00:17:19,164 --> 00:17:21,850
We Kevin and I will be doing about

451
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:23,289
one conversation,

452
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:25,930
per month. And that might be an interview.

453
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:27,509
It may just be the 2 of us

454
00:17:27,509 --> 00:17:28,490
chopping it up.

455
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:32,170
But that's about what is sustainable and honestly,

456
00:17:33,509 --> 00:17:35,509
what we can coordinate between the 2 of

457
00:17:35,509 --> 00:17:36,434
us being so busy.

458
00:17:37,075 --> 00:17:38,355
So that's what we're gonna get. But in

459
00:17:38,355 --> 00:17:39,875
the meantime, what you're going to get is

460
00:17:39,875 --> 00:17:41,575
you're gonna get some guest hosts.

461
00:17:42,195 --> 00:17:44,134
I have a couple of really awesome,

462
00:17:44,674 --> 00:17:47,475
episodes coming up where you'll get to hear

463
00:17:47,475 --> 00:17:49,475
a guest host. And we'll also do a

464
00:17:49,475 --> 00:17:50,535
little bit of storytelling.

465
00:17:51,634 --> 00:17:53,730
The new dope teachers on the mic series

466
00:17:54,029 --> 00:17:55,410
will be dropping,

467
00:17:56,509 --> 00:17:58,910
in the near future. And those are gonna

468
00:17:58,910 --> 00:18:01,630
be stories and not just interviews. So this

469
00:18:01,630 --> 00:18:04,109
is a thing that I'm really getting excited

470
00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:05,630
about. I'm trying to be a writer as

471
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:07,644
you know, if you subscribe to my substack

472
00:18:07,644 --> 00:18:08,625
you've seen it.

473
00:18:09,005 --> 00:18:10,945
Trying to be a writer and I hope

474
00:18:11,085 --> 00:18:13,325
that I could get myself back into a

475
00:18:13,325 --> 00:18:15,325
space where I have the energy for writing.

476
00:18:15,325 --> 00:18:17,345
I love writing my hands ache to write.

477
00:18:17,965 --> 00:18:20,365
And so I I feel like this, change

478
00:18:20,365 --> 00:18:22,100
in format will help me do that. And

479
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,200
really one of, the big,

480
00:18:25,539 --> 00:18:26,039
inspirations

481
00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:26,920
for,

482
00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:29,700
you know, building my skill as a podcast

483
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:33,140
writer has come from this amazing podcast called,

484
00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:35,400
The Troubles Podcast and it's about,

485
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:36,994
The Troubles, the conflict,

486
00:18:37,615 --> 00:18:38,914
over Northern Ireland,

487
00:18:40,255 --> 00:18:41,394
and this

488
00:18:41,695 --> 00:18:42,195
incredible

489
00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:45,214
podcast host and storyteller who tells these stories.

490
00:18:45,214 --> 00:18:45,714
So,

491
00:18:46,335 --> 00:18:48,115
I'm really gonna try to,

492
00:18:49,775 --> 00:18:50,275
take

493
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:54,230
Philosopher's pen to Philosopher's page, and try to

494
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:55,210
make this happen.

495
00:18:56,869 --> 00:18:58,869
So what you're gonna hear today is an

496
00:18:58,869 --> 00:18:59,369
interview

497
00:18:59,750 --> 00:19:01,610
with Cole Nussbaum or Naflick.

498
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:03,825
Cole is dope.

499
00:19:04,944 --> 00:19:07,444
Cole reached out to me and I failed

500
00:19:07,664 --> 00:19:08,164
to,

501
00:19:08,704 --> 00:19:11,024
meet with her a couple of different times,

502
00:19:11,024 --> 00:19:14,164
but she's written this phenomenal book called Daphne

503
00:19:14,464 --> 00:19:17,610
Daphne Draws Data. And it's this wonderful little

504
00:19:17,610 --> 00:19:20,430
children's book about a little dinosaur named Daphne

505
00:19:20,730 --> 00:19:22,110
and her brother Declan.

506
00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:25,390
Cole talks about how much she loves alliteration

507
00:19:26,410 --> 00:19:28,110
and how to

508
00:19:28,714 --> 00:19:29,214
really

509
00:19:29,835 --> 00:19:33,055
get kids excited about storytelling with data.

510
00:19:33,674 --> 00:19:34,174
How

511
00:19:34,634 --> 00:19:37,035
how storytelling with data can be an iterative

512
00:19:37,035 --> 00:19:39,434
process. And actually Cole does this work for

513
00:19:39,434 --> 00:19:41,700
adults as well. And she had done this,

514
00:19:42,819 --> 00:19:46,679
prior to writing Daphne, the Daphne draws data.

515
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:49,940
What she talks about is like puzzles, the

516
00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:53,319
application of data in understanding things better,

517
00:19:54,099 --> 00:19:54,599
numbering,

518
00:19:54,980 --> 00:19:55,480
graphing

519
00:19:56,044 --> 00:19:58,204
stories. There's a really great part of the

520
00:19:58,204 --> 00:19:59,825
book that we talk about where

521
00:20:00,125 --> 00:20:02,365
Daphne is trying to help some monkeys solve

522
00:20:02,365 --> 00:20:05,664
the, mystery of of disappearing bananas.

523
00:20:06,204 --> 00:20:08,924
And so Daphne who loves to draw, her

524
00:20:08,924 --> 00:20:09,424
learning

525
00:20:09,724 --> 00:20:12,070
draws out where all the banana peels are

526
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:13,130
and figures out,

527
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:15,910
who the culprit is and what they're doing.

528
00:20:15,910 --> 00:20:17,210
So it's just really wonderful.

529
00:20:18,869 --> 00:20:20,950
It's something that I really believe in and

530
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:22,789
I take back even to my work as

531
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:25,109
a as a history teacher. You engage through

532
00:20:25,109 --> 00:20:27,115
the story and you teach along the way

533
00:20:27,115 --> 00:20:29,115
and it's beautiful. There's one thing I wanna

534
00:20:29,115 --> 00:20:29,615
name

535
00:20:30,474 --> 00:20:31,934
that reflects a bias

536
00:20:32,394 --> 00:20:34,394
from my perspective and I'm gonna own this.

537
00:20:34,394 --> 00:20:35,835
I was gonna edit it but I'm like,

538
00:20:35,835 --> 00:20:37,355
no, I wanna name this and I wanna

539
00:20:37,355 --> 00:20:38,974
try to model the type of transparent

540
00:20:39,434 --> 00:20:39,914
and,

541
00:20:40,714 --> 00:20:41,694
the kind of transparent

542
00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:45,160
critical self reflection we all need when we're

543
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:45,660
working

544
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:47,980
towards a more just

545
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,619
and equitable education experience.

546
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,759
So multiple times I reveal in

547
00:20:55,304 --> 00:20:56,464
maybe it was just a couple times, but

548
00:20:56,464 --> 00:20:58,125
a couple of different times I reveal

549
00:20:58,904 --> 00:21:01,244
to the audience, if you're listening carefully,

550
00:21:01,865 --> 00:21:02,605
my assumption

551
00:21:02,984 --> 00:21:04,524
that Daphne draws data

552
00:21:04,984 --> 00:21:06,284
because the main character

553
00:21:06,585 --> 00:21:08,825
is named Daphne and because the author is

554
00:21:08,825 --> 00:21:09,404
a woman,

555
00:21:10,009 --> 00:21:11,149
is a cis woman

556
00:21:11,529 --> 00:21:12,029
and

557
00:21:12,809 --> 00:21:13,309
because,

558
00:21:14,089 --> 00:21:14,750
you know,

559
00:21:15,129 --> 00:21:17,129
it's about data that the purpose of the

560
00:21:17,129 --> 00:21:20,349
book was to encourage girls to feel more

561
00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:21,855
confident about math.

562
00:21:22,414 --> 00:21:24,174
And so there's a couple of questions that

563
00:21:24,174 --> 00:21:26,115
I ask in Cole, you know,

564
00:21:27,134 --> 00:21:28,194
bless her soul

565
00:21:28,894 --> 00:21:30,194
for being so patient.

566
00:21:31,375 --> 00:21:33,375
It sort of gently pushes back and said,

567
00:21:33,375 --> 00:21:35,075
actually, this is for like

568
00:21:35,454 --> 00:21:35,954
everyone.

569
00:21:36,255 --> 00:21:39,559
Like kids across the board don't have an

570
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:40,779
overall positive

571
00:21:41,159 --> 00:21:41,659
feeling

572
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,599
about learning math and doing math. Like, at

573
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:46,220
some point they start to

574
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:49,319
doubt themselves and and we exchange stories about

575
00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:49,819
how

576
00:21:50,464 --> 00:21:52,644
my kid and her daughter had

577
00:21:53,025 --> 00:21:53,525
expressed

578
00:21:54,384 --> 00:21:54,884
insecurities

579
00:21:55,184 --> 00:21:56,404
when it came to

580
00:21:57,184 --> 00:21:58,964
doing math, being good at math,

581
00:21:59,825 --> 00:22:02,144
and feeling like they could be successful in

582
00:22:02,144 --> 00:22:03,329
math, let alone engaged.

583
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:06,130
And so I just wanna call that out

584
00:22:06,130 --> 00:22:08,210
because, yeah, there are some pinks and Daphne's

585
00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:09,809
a girl and all this kind of or

586
00:22:09,809 --> 00:22:11,970
Daphne's a female dinosaur. I would, you know,

587
00:22:11,970 --> 00:22:14,690
which whatever the way I'm like thinking about

588
00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:17,284
this, there's a lot lot to interrogate there

589
00:22:17,664 --> 00:22:18,724
for another episode.

590
00:22:19,664 --> 00:22:21,585
So I I was kinda operating on these

591
00:22:21,585 --> 00:22:23,904
assumptions and Cole Cole is just amazing about

592
00:22:23,904 --> 00:22:24,644
doing this.

593
00:22:25,345 --> 00:22:28,144
You should buy the book. It actually dropped

594
00:22:28,144 --> 00:22:29,920
a few days ago. It is out. It

595
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,099
is available for public for a purchase.

596
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:34,720
We'll have that in the show notes of

597
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,460
this episode.

598
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,640
But we have a really fun conversation, and

599
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,440
I would just love for you to sit

600
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:42,820
back and listen

601
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:43,700
to

602
00:22:45,305 --> 00:22:47,325
the power of storytelling with data

603
00:22:47,705 --> 00:22:49,785
and the belief that we can instill in

604
00:22:49,785 --> 00:22:51,964
our kids that we can all do complicated

605
00:22:52,105 --> 00:22:52,605
things.

606
00:22:52,984 --> 00:22:56,105
Cole Nussbaum or Netflix, author of Daphne Draws

607
00:22:56,105 --> 00:22:56,605
Data

608
00:22:56,904 --> 00:22:59,910
here on 2 Dope Teachers and a Mic.

609
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:04,789
Yo. What's going on 2 Dope Nation?

610
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:07,369
As we have said,

611
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:08,330
like,

612
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:11,029
we we have this amazing guest today, and

613
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:12,630
I love books y'all. I don't know if

614
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:13,305
you know this,

615
00:23:13,705 --> 00:23:15,225
but I just have a lot of books.

616
00:23:15,225 --> 00:23:17,225
I've realized it in my old age. I

617
00:23:17,225 --> 00:23:20,205
probably own more books than I have years

618
00:23:20,345 --> 00:23:22,585
left in life, and that's kind of a

619
00:23:22,585 --> 00:23:23,965
weird thing to think about.

620
00:23:24,825 --> 00:23:27,085
But it's always so exciting to have,

621
00:23:27,705 --> 00:23:29,829
to have authors on here, particularly children's

622
00:23:33,569 --> 00:23:34,069
authors.

623
00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:37,190
So we've got this amazing,

624
00:23:37,569 --> 00:23:39,809
opportunity here to talk to a children's book

625
00:23:39,809 --> 00:23:42,069
author. As I said at the top, author

626
00:23:42,130 --> 00:23:42,950
of Daphne

627
00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:45,964
Draws Data. We have Cole Nussbaumer

628
00:23:46,345 --> 00:23:48,285
Nafleck. Cole, how are you today?

629
00:23:48,744 --> 00:23:51,144
Hi, Gerardo. I am doing great. Looking forward

630
00:23:51,144 --> 00:23:54,025
to chatting with you. No doubt. No doubt.

631
00:23:54,025 --> 00:23:57,144
So this is such an important topic, and

632
00:23:57,144 --> 00:23:58,930
we're so happy to bring it to our

633
00:23:58,930 --> 00:24:00,609
listeners here at the beginning of the school

634
00:24:00,609 --> 00:24:03,029
year. Because one of the persistent challenges

635
00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:04,150
that we

636
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:07,910
see in schools is this disconnect,

637
00:24:08,930 --> 00:24:11,410
between students and math that often breaks along

638
00:24:11,410 --> 00:24:13,170
gender lines. And so we're gonna talk about

639
00:24:13,170 --> 00:24:13,910
this book.

640
00:24:14,335 --> 00:24:16,255
If you haven't seen the book, we will

641
00:24:16,255 --> 00:24:18,654
give you ways to access it and to

642
00:24:18,654 --> 00:24:20,255
get the materials and all that kind of

643
00:24:20,255 --> 00:24:22,575
stuff. But I kinda wanna start off with,

644
00:24:22,894 --> 00:24:25,154
just a little bit about you, Cole.

645
00:24:25,455 --> 00:24:25,955
So

646
00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:28,299
talk to us a little bit about your

647
00:24:28,299 --> 00:24:31,019
background, about how you kind of found your

648
00:24:31,019 --> 00:24:32,720
way into mathematics

649
00:24:33,019 --> 00:24:34,880
and how that led to you

650
00:24:35,339 --> 00:24:36,640
coming up with a book.

651
00:24:37,819 --> 00:24:40,744
Yes. So I when I think back, you

652
00:24:40,744 --> 00:24:42,125
know, elementary school,

653
00:24:42,505 --> 00:24:45,404
middle school, high school, I always really enjoyed

654
00:24:45,625 --> 00:24:47,384
math. And I think it was because I

655
00:24:47,384 --> 00:24:50,445
liked this idea of there being a puzzle

656
00:24:50,505 --> 00:24:52,919
and pieces that you could put together in

657
00:24:52,919 --> 00:24:54,839
a logical way. And you could come up

658
00:24:54,839 --> 00:24:57,000
with an answer and it was clearly right

659
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,460
or wrong. Right.

660
00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:00,919
And that that played well, I think, just

661
00:25:00,919 --> 00:25:02,059
with my general,

662
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:04,379
the way that my brain worked.

663
00:25:04,964 --> 00:25:06,345
I ended up majoring

664
00:25:06,724 --> 00:25:09,924
in math in university, which I would not

665
00:25:09,924 --> 00:25:12,644
have foreseen going into it. And in fact,

666
00:25:12,644 --> 00:25:15,365
I can remember the very first test that

667
00:25:15,365 --> 00:25:16,505
I had in

668
00:25:16,884 --> 00:25:18,644
university. And, you know, it was one of

669
00:25:18,644 --> 00:25:22,630
those massive lecture halls with 300 students. And

670
00:25:22,769 --> 00:25:23,269
I

671
00:25:23,970 --> 00:25:26,049
totally and I'd never been one to have

672
00:25:26,049 --> 00:25:29,009
real test anxiety, but I completely blanked. And

673
00:25:29,009 --> 00:25:30,369
that was not a good experience. But I

674
00:25:30,369 --> 00:25:31,805
stuck with the math and,

675
00:25:33,625 --> 00:25:34,924
got over that. You.

676
00:25:35,865 --> 00:25:38,345
Yeah. And well, and then coming out of

677
00:25:38,345 --> 00:25:40,825
university with, it was an applied math degree.

678
00:25:40,825 --> 00:25:42,985
So I did computer programming, a lot of

679
00:25:42,985 --> 00:25:45,225
math, a lot of science, and I really

680
00:25:45,225 --> 00:25:46,525
liked the

681
00:25:47,339 --> 00:25:49,660
application of math. So not just, you know,

682
00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:51,579
how do you make the numbers work together,

683
00:25:51,579 --> 00:25:53,599
but how do you use them to understand

684
00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:56,640
something better and then use that to help

685
00:25:56,779 --> 00:26:00,134
other people understand things better? And so I

686
00:26:00,134 --> 00:26:02,555
work myself pretty quickly into analytical

687
00:26:02,934 --> 00:26:04,955
sort of roles. I was working in banking

688
00:26:05,414 --> 00:26:06,875
and then at Google,

689
00:26:07,335 --> 00:26:09,335
and I was working with numbers. Right? I

690
00:26:09,335 --> 00:26:11,414
had a good statistics background, and so I

691
00:26:11,414 --> 00:26:14,154
was building models and doing all this complicated

692
00:26:14,215 --> 00:26:15,869
stuff behind the scenes. But then at the

693
00:26:15,869 --> 00:26:17,230
end of the day, I needed to be

694
00:26:17,230 --> 00:26:19,630
able to put that into words that made

695
00:26:19,630 --> 00:26:21,009
sense to someone else.

696
00:26:21,309 --> 00:26:23,789
And not only words, but pictures. And so

697
00:26:23,789 --> 00:26:25,250
that was when I really started

698
00:26:25,630 --> 00:26:27,490
making graphs and understanding

699
00:26:28,105 --> 00:26:30,664
what works when it comes to visualizing data

700
00:26:30,664 --> 00:26:32,204
for communicating it to others,

701
00:26:32,664 --> 00:26:33,484
what doesn't.

702
00:26:34,184 --> 00:26:36,024
Fast forward that a whole lot, and we

703
00:26:36,024 --> 00:26:37,544
can dig into any of this more if

704
00:26:37,544 --> 00:26:39,224
you want to. But I started a company

705
00:26:39,224 --> 00:26:40,924
called Storytelling with Data

706
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,619
where we teach

707
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,840
grown ups adults how to communicate with numbers.

708
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,299
How do you make a good graph

709
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:50,279
and not just how do you visualize the

710
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:52,200
data, but how do you then take that

711
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,580
and weave it into

712
00:26:54,115 --> 00:26:56,774
a story and get your audience's attention,

713
00:26:57,154 --> 00:26:58,774
bring them new understanding

714
00:26:59,554 --> 00:27:01,794
and motivate them to act or to make

715
00:27:01,794 --> 00:27:05,174
a smarter decision than they might otherwise have?

716
00:27:05,474 --> 00:27:06,454
So my experience

717
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:07,500
writing,

718
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,759
thus far has been all in the grown

719
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:14,119
up business sphere. So I have 3 business

720
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:14,619
books,

721
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,559
that take the things that we teach in

722
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:20,359
our workshops and and codify them into books

723
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,099
for adults.

724
00:27:21,454 --> 00:27:23,855
And so this is the new adventure with

725
00:27:23,855 --> 00:27:24,355
Daphne.

726
00:27:25,055 --> 00:27:26,974
Oh, that no. That's so you're talking about

727
00:27:26,974 --> 00:27:29,154
storytelling with data and very selfishly,

728
00:27:29,615 --> 00:27:31,295
I'm like, this could be useful in my

729
00:27:31,295 --> 00:27:31,795
dissertation.

730
00:27:32,335 --> 00:27:35,429
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That kind of stuff. Let's

731
00:27:35,429 --> 00:27:37,509
just dig into that a little bit because

732
00:27:37,509 --> 00:27:39,269
I think and we were talking a little

733
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:40,569
bit off mic about

734
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:43,750
how there seems to be a status quo

735
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:44,889
around math instruction

736
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:48,789
and like existing in math, particularly in ECE

737
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:49,849
through 12 spaces

738
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:53,164
that math has to be abstract. It has

739
00:27:53,164 --> 00:27:54,225
to be disconnected.

740
00:27:54,765 --> 00:27:57,805
It has to be taught and learned in

741
00:27:57,805 --> 00:28:00,365
exactly the same way it was always taught

742
00:28:00,365 --> 00:28:02,605
and learned. And it sounds like a little

743
00:28:02,605 --> 00:28:04,305
bit of what you're talking about

744
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:06,569
represents a little bit of a disruption

745
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:07,529
to

746
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:10,549
that line of thinking. Is that part of

747
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:13,690
what kind of drives your approach with numbers?

748
00:28:14,069 --> 00:28:15,669
It does. Because I think if I look

749
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:18,755
back to myself, I I appreciated the way

750
00:28:18,755 --> 00:28:20,914
math was taught. You know, the rote, the

751
00:28:20,914 --> 00:28:23,555
memorization, the the logic that that worked for

752
00:28:23,555 --> 00:28:26,615
my brain. That doesn't work though for,

753
00:28:26,994 --> 00:28:29,634
I mean, maybe the majority of people's brains,

754
00:28:29,634 --> 00:28:31,335
but certainly not for everyone.

755
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,600
And you're absolutely right that that we take

756
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,200
numbers at that age when we're teaching them

757
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,279
and make them so abstract that they lose

758
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:40,299
meaning. And it doesn't seem interesting

759
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,259
where I think there are so many interesting

760
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,820
practical applications that we can bring to kids.

761
00:28:46,134 --> 00:28:48,794
And honestly, it was so for me, just,

762
00:28:49,494 --> 00:28:52,054
life wise, as I was building my business

763
00:28:52,054 --> 00:28:54,535
and writing the business books, I also had

764
00:28:54,535 --> 00:28:56,615
a growing family. And so I have 3

765
00:28:56,615 --> 00:28:57,994
kids. They're now ages

766
00:28:58,559 --> 00:28:59,059
11,

767
00:28:59,919 --> 00:29:02,720
10, and 8. And Okay. For me that

768
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,539
was really

769
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,880
I think what made me think about trying

770
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,440
to do something for a younger audience. Because

771
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,744
I had this idea gnawing in my head.

772
00:29:11,744 --> 00:29:13,984
Because every adult that you encounter who when

773
00:29:13,984 --> 00:29:15,345
I explain what I do or when we

774
00:29:15,345 --> 00:29:16,625
go in and we do workshops or they

775
00:29:16,625 --> 00:29:17,365
read the book,

776
00:29:17,825 --> 00:29:20,464
oftentimes the first response is, I wish I'd

777
00:29:20,464 --> 00:29:23,105
known this sooner. Wish that someone had taught

778
00:29:23,105 --> 00:29:25,619
me this earlier. So you get that. And

779
00:29:25,619 --> 00:29:27,480
then at the same time, I'm watching

780
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,240
these tiny people and their brains develop,

781
00:29:31,539 --> 00:29:34,500
and they learn really complicated things like how

782
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:36,660
to speak a language at a really good

783
00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:39,755
age. It's so true. And it's by repetition

784
00:29:39,974 --> 00:29:42,214
and by being immersed in it. And it

785
00:29:42,214 --> 00:29:43,734
really seems to me that, you know, if

786
00:29:43,734 --> 00:29:47,115
you take graphs, which are a visual language,

787
00:29:47,494 --> 00:29:49,494
that's something that we could be teaching so

788
00:29:49,494 --> 00:29:50,934
much sooner. And if we did it in

789
00:29:50,934 --> 00:29:51,914
a way that actually

790
00:29:52,309 --> 00:29:54,630
appealed to kids, that helped them learn about

791
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:56,950
themselves and the world around them, helps them

792
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:58,170
make smarter decisions,

793
00:29:58,869 --> 00:30:01,589
then it it doesn't feel like math is

794
00:30:01,589 --> 00:30:03,910
work. It feels like math is suddenly becomes

795
00:30:03,910 --> 00:30:04,730
this magical

796
00:30:05,115 --> 00:30:08,015
power that they can use in really interesting

797
00:30:08,394 --> 00:30:08,894
ways.

798
00:30:09,275 --> 00:30:10,634
So I think of you know, I see

799
00:30:10,634 --> 00:30:12,954
my kids come home not with many graphs,

800
00:30:12,954 --> 00:30:14,315
but when they do, it's, you know, well,

801
00:30:14,315 --> 00:30:16,634
we graphed the weather in January. Right? We

802
00:30:16,634 --> 00:30:17,231
live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. You experienced the weather

803
00:30:17,231 --> 00:30:18,218
in January. You know it was You experience

804
00:30:18,218 --> 00:30:19,692
the weather in January. You know, it was

805
00:30:19,692 --> 00:30:20,843
miserable. You don't need a graph. The bar

806
00:30:20,843 --> 00:30:21,590
chart isn't going to tell you anything new.

807
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:23,609
You're not gonna gain any new insights.

808
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:26,630
Right. Move from What if we have you

809
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:27,450
collect, you know,

810
00:30:32,474 --> 00:30:34,474
information on when you go to bed each

811
00:30:34,474 --> 00:30:35,835
night and when you wake up in the

812
00:30:35,835 --> 00:30:38,894
morning and how you feel that next morning?

813
00:30:39,115 --> 00:30:41,595
Maybe we could find some insights where you

814
00:30:41,595 --> 00:30:43,295
feel judged by the fact. Yeah.

815
00:30:44,075 --> 00:30:46,650
Not you. The the grand you. Right? Yeah.

816
00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:49,369
Absolutely. Where you could collect some data and

817
00:30:49,369 --> 00:30:51,769
look at things together and maybe walk away

818
00:30:51,769 --> 00:30:52,829
with a new understanding

819
00:30:53,130 --> 00:30:56,009
that would help explain things or help you

820
00:30:56,009 --> 00:30:56,894
make different decisions.

821
00:30:57,375 --> 00:30:58,894
I think as a kid, that would be

822
00:30:58,894 --> 00:30:59,955
super empowering.

823
00:31:00,734 --> 00:31:02,894
No doubt. No. And I find that really

824
00:31:02,894 --> 00:31:06,174
exciting myself. Like, I in my current work,

825
00:31:06,174 --> 00:31:08,734
I support new teachers and future teachers. And

826
00:31:08,734 --> 00:31:09,394
I think,

827
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,279
you know, now probably more than ever, there's

828
00:31:12,279 --> 00:31:12,779
more,

829
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,700
pressure and expectations

830
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:15,559
that,

831
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:18,380
the teachers be able to make content

832
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:20,059
relevant, authentic,

833
00:31:20,919 --> 00:31:22,460
and engaging. And so

834
00:31:23,424 --> 00:31:25,184
what you're talking about seems to bring all

835
00:31:25,184 --> 00:31:25,845
these things

836
00:31:26,785 --> 00:31:27,605
kinda together.

837
00:31:27,984 --> 00:31:30,164
As you kinda talk, I I think about,

838
00:31:31,265 --> 00:31:33,345
the paraphrasing that quote, we can do hard

839
00:31:33,345 --> 00:31:35,265
things. This is like, we can do complicated

840
00:31:35,265 --> 00:31:35,765
things.

841
00:31:37,184 --> 00:31:38,164
Say more about

842
00:31:39,210 --> 00:31:39,710
developmentally,

843
00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:43,289
why it is that we we seem to

844
00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:45,309
like, we were missing this opportunity

845
00:31:46,009 --> 00:31:50,029
to start teaching complex mathematical concepts and applications

846
00:31:50,890 --> 00:31:52,809
by waiting too long. What is it that

847
00:31:52,809 --> 00:31:56,115
you understand developmentally that allows for that opportunity?

848
00:31:56,654 --> 00:31:58,654
Yeah. This is a great question. And I

849
00:31:58,654 --> 00:32:00,494
think it likely has to do with just

850
00:32:00,575 --> 00:32:01,775
I mean, part of it, I think, is

851
00:32:01,775 --> 00:32:04,015
just how things have been done historically. That,

852
00:32:04,015 --> 00:32:05,855
you know, you start with the foundation, you

853
00:32:05,855 --> 00:32:08,970
start with addition and subtraction, these building blocks,

854
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:10,429
and go from there.

855
00:32:11,049 --> 00:32:11,549
Yeah.

856
00:32:11,849 --> 00:32:13,690
And when so one thing that, you know,

857
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:15,849
I just compare and contrast the way I

858
00:32:15,849 --> 00:32:17,849
learned things with how my kids are being

859
00:32:17,849 --> 00:32:18,669
taught now.

860
00:32:19,005 --> 00:32:20,684
And Right. One of the things that has

861
00:32:20,684 --> 00:32:22,845
been great is they have, you know, really

862
00:32:22,845 --> 00:32:24,765
tactile things. So when they're learning to count

863
00:32:24,765 --> 00:32:26,945
by fives or by tens or they're multiplying,

864
00:32:27,005 --> 00:32:28,845
they have, you know, blocks and, like, and

865
00:32:28,845 --> 00:32:30,785
things that they're using to physically

866
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:33,660
play out these scenarios. But that's where I

867
00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:35,500
think the opportunity is missed because it's like,

868
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:37,579
you know, it's a block, whereas it could

869
00:32:37,579 --> 00:32:40,299
be something more meaningful. You know, if we

870
00:32:40,299 --> 00:32:42,640
wanna teach kids how to start thinking about

871
00:32:43,099 --> 00:32:43,599
their

872
00:32:44,694 --> 00:32:45,194
allowance

873
00:32:45,734 --> 00:32:48,054
and how that can change over time, like

874
00:32:48,054 --> 00:32:50,694
coins or, you know, there's these simple swaps

875
00:32:50,694 --> 00:32:52,214
that could be made, I think, in some

876
00:32:52,214 --> 00:32:54,474
places that would take something from being

877
00:32:55,575 --> 00:32:58,130
more abstract to less abstract or more meaningful,

878
00:32:58,190 --> 00:33:00,769
or where we can draw really specific connections

879
00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:01,570
to kids.

880
00:33:02,190 --> 00:33:04,349
The the visual piece is very interesting to

881
00:33:04,349 --> 00:33:05,250
me because

882
00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:08,430
when, you know, if you take a graph

883
00:33:08,590 --> 00:33:09,970
when a graph is designed

884
00:33:10,349 --> 00:33:10,849
well

885
00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:14,835
and has either pictures or words to support

886
00:33:14,835 --> 00:33:17,554
it, it just is intuitive where you're meant

887
00:33:17,554 --> 00:33:19,654
to look and what you're meant to see.

888
00:33:19,714 --> 00:33:22,534
And so it can actually by taking information

889
00:33:22,595 --> 00:33:25,075
and numbers and making them visual, you can

890
00:33:25,075 --> 00:33:25,894
make it

891
00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:27,570
more accessible

892
00:33:28,509 --> 00:33:30,190
even if you don't have, you know, the

893
00:33:30,190 --> 00:33:32,910
understanding of statistics or you don't need all

894
00:33:32,910 --> 00:33:34,850
of the foundation to get there.

895
00:33:35,309 --> 00:33:37,230
And right now, you know, I think, again,

896
00:33:37,230 --> 00:33:39,230
back to my learning, I didn't encounter a

897
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:41,914
graph in a meaningful way until college. And

898
00:33:41,914 --> 00:33:43,595
even then, it wasn't you know, I came

899
00:33:43,595 --> 00:33:45,275
out of college not really, you know, I

900
00:33:45,275 --> 00:33:47,595
graphed some things in chemistry, I think. Sure.

901
00:33:47,595 --> 00:33:48,794
But it wasn't until I got into the

902
00:33:48,794 --> 00:33:50,494
working world where this became

903
00:33:50,954 --> 00:33:51,454
the

904
00:33:52,075 --> 00:33:53,214
way that people

905
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:55,019
talk to one another

906
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,720
Yeah. To a large degree, and even more

907
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,119
now that data has found its way into

908
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:01,019
so many

909
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,440
industries and roles. Basically, everybody touches it in

910
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,654
some way or another.

911
00:34:05,974 --> 00:34:07,115
That the

912
00:34:07,414 --> 00:34:08,155
the ability

913
00:34:09,015 --> 00:34:10,954
to not only make a graph, but also

914
00:34:11,094 --> 00:34:14,315
look at 1 and ask smart questions, or

915
00:34:14,534 --> 00:34:16,695
form the questions in the first place to

916
00:34:16,695 --> 00:34:19,015
be able then understand what data you could

917
00:34:19,015 --> 00:34:21,329
collect and go out and do it. You

918
00:34:21,329 --> 00:34:21,829
know,

919
00:34:22,130 --> 00:34:24,610
there's some of this is taught in science

920
00:34:24,610 --> 00:34:26,309
of, you know, you develop your hypothesis,

921
00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:29,750
you gather the data, you revisit your hypothesis

922
00:34:29,890 --> 00:34:32,470
that I think that merged with math

923
00:34:32,849 --> 00:34:35,410
and the visual aspect could be really interesting.

924
00:34:35,410 --> 00:34:36,775
Right? Because then you get a little bit

925
00:34:36,775 --> 00:34:39,034
of the art and the creative piece in

926
00:34:39,094 --> 00:34:39,755
as well.

927
00:34:40,215 --> 00:34:41,655
So I think, you know, as I think

928
00:34:41,655 --> 00:34:42,795
back to when

929
00:34:44,375 --> 00:34:45,894
yeah. I don't I'm trying to think when

930
00:34:45,894 --> 00:34:48,534
exactly it was that math was no longer

931
00:34:48,534 --> 00:34:50,235
kinda cool as a female.

932
00:34:51,335 --> 00:34:53,099
Yeah. And I think it was probably around

933
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:55,460
something I was gonna ask for sure. I

934
00:34:55,460 --> 00:34:57,300
think for me, it was probably around middle

935
00:34:57,300 --> 00:34:59,460
school, and and I didn't care. I you

936
00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:01,699
know, for myself, I I was the smart

937
00:35:01,699 --> 00:35:04,260
kid persona was fine with me, and I

938
00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:06,340
stuck with math, and I enjoyed it. But

939
00:35:06,340 --> 00:35:08,755
that wasn't the case for many people. And

940
00:35:08,755 --> 00:35:10,534
I think in some cases, it's because,

941
00:35:10,914 --> 00:35:12,934
oh, you know, it's it's rule based.

942
00:35:13,875 --> 00:35:15,974
There's no room for creativity.

943
00:35:16,434 --> 00:35:18,755
These are all falsehoods that go into it

944
00:35:18,755 --> 00:35:19,255
when

945
00:35:19,795 --> 00:35:22,390
there are so many different ways you can

946
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:25,349
get to the quote, unquote, right answer. And

947
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:27,289
I think when you bring the visual piece

948
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:28,410
in, then

949
00:35:28,789 --> 00:35:31,610
you can have maybe also more interesting conversations

950
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:33,130
about the,

951
00:35:33,454 --> 00:35:35,295
I think, the wrong answers or the answers

952
00:35:35,295 --> 00:35:37,554
that weren't Yeah. For in in that case.

953
00:35:38,094 --> 00:35:40,034
Yeah. I I think there's a lot,

954
00:35:40,894 --> 00:35:42,894
there's a lot to that. And I think

955
00:35:43,054 --> 00:35:45,215
and I man, I do not need to

956
00:35:45,215 --> 00:35:47,454
mansplain this to you. You know this better

957
00:35:47,454 --> 00:35:48,630
than than I do. I'll do it. But

958
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:51,510
the yeah. Don't worry. But one thing that

959
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:53,609
I know and I in doing some readings

960
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:55,989
to to to just kind of get myself

961
00:35:55,989 --> 00:35:57,909
in the in the mindset to have this

962
00:35:57,909 --> 00:35:58,409
conversation,

963
00:35:59,030 --> 00:36:01,585
there is this argument that there are, like,

964
00:36:01,585 --> 00:36:03,985
natural differences between boys and girls when it

965
00:36:03,985 --> 00:36:06,625
comes to math that that boys are just

966
00:36:06,625 --> 00:36:08,545
naturally better. Like, you hear people say this

967
00:36:08,545 --> 00:36:10,704
all the time. Right? Don't like that. Yeah.

968
00:36:10,704 --> 00:36:12,760
I don't like that at all. Because and

969
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,400
and especially having raised a daughter to myself

970
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,640
who's now like, to adulthood, who's now a

971
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,940
second year college student,

972
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,380
I think that

973
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,180
exactly what you're describing is what I

974
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:23,980
witnessed,

975
00:36:24,295 --> 00:36:25,974
and I would venture to say that my

976
00:36:25,974 --> 00:36:27,574
daughter's a little bit younger than you. So

977
00:36:27,574 --> 00:36:29,175
that says that things

978
00:36:30,054 --> 00:36:32,534
that some of these assumptions have persisted over

979
00:36:32,534 --> 00:36:35,594
a long period of time. Yeah. And so

980
00:36:35,974 --> 00:36:36,474
the

981
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,160
the middle school thing is something that I've

982
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,400
read about a little bit that when gender

983
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:41,900
stereotypes

984
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,019
are present, even in a passive way,

985
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,280
it tends to impact the way girls perform

986
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:48,940
in math

987
00:36:50,105 --> 00:36:51,484
more than any other subject.

988
00:36:52,344 --> 00:36:53,964
And so I sometimes think

989
00:36:54,344 --> 00:36:56,264
that why no. Not sometimes. I think that

990
00:36:56,264 --> 00:36:58,664
so much of it is about the story

991
00:36:58,664 --> 00:36:59,565
that we tell

992
00:36:59,864 --> 00:37:02,424
about girls in math. What are some of

993
00:37:02,424 --> 00:37:03,864
the ways like, we know that there are

994
00:37:03,864 --> 00:37:04,525
the really

995
00:37:05,059 --> 00:37:07,559
the really sort of brash and offensive,

996
00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:11,000
like, blatant ways that these stories are communicated.

997
00:37:11,460 --> 00:37:13,460
Can you think of any ways that these

998
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:16,820
stories are kind of implicitly communicated that that

999
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:20,255
girls even in 2020 4 are still receiving

1000
00:37:20,255 --> 00:37:22,575
this message that because their girls are not

1001
00:37:22,575 --> 00:37:23,394
good at this.

1002
00:37:23,934 --> 00:37:25,855
And that's one I did not let you

1003
00:37:25,855 --> 00:37:27,775
plan for. So it just kinda came to

1004
00:37:27,775 --> 00:37:28,515
my head.

1005
00:37:28,815 --> 00:37:31,375
It's little ways. Right? And I don't have

1006
00:37:31,375 --> 00:37:33,519
the answer to this. Just my experience

1007
00:37:34,059 --> 00:37:36,079
with it and the things that I've seen.

1008
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:38,539
I mean, imagine if you close your eyes

1009
00:37:38,539 --> 00:37:41,500
and imagine a math kid. Right? Imagine a

1010
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:42,000
kid

1011
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:43,119
who loves

1012
00:37:43,579 --> 00:37:45,595
math. I don't know about you, but I

1013
00:37:45,595 --> 00:37:48,015
I picture and for me, it's not necessarily

1014
00:37:48,715 --> 00:37:50,474
a boy or a girl, but it's, like,

1015
00:37:50,474 --> 00:37:51,535
nerdy glasses.

1016
00:37:51,835 --> 00:37:54,474
Like Yeah. It just it's this stereotype Pocket

1017
00:37:54,474 --> 00:37:54,974
protector.

1018
00:37:55,515 --> 00:37:58,155
Exactly. It's this Right. Stereotype that it's, like,

1019
00:37:58,155 --> 00:37:59,295
the the uncool

1020
00:37:59,835 --> 00:38:00,335
smart

1021
00:38:00,690 --> 00:38:02,929
kid, like, that that they're the only ones

1022
00:38:02,929 --> 00:38:04,230
who are going to like

1023
00:38:04,769 --> 00:38:06,230
math. Right. And I think oftentimes

1024
00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:07,030
it's

1025
00:38:07,489 --> 00:38:08,150
at the

1026
00:38:08,449 --> 00:38:10,949
opposite end of the spectrum of things like

1027
00:38:11,170 --> 00:38:15,034
sports or art. So physical things or creative

1028
00:38:15,175 --> 00:38:17,734
things, and it Yep. Really doesn't have to

1029
00:38:17,734 --> 00:38:20,375
be. No. And in fact, when you can

1030
00:38:20,375 --> 00:38:23,675
approach math from some of these other lenses,

1031
00:38:24,215 --> 00:38:25,974
I think it there's so much to add

1032
00:38:25,974 --> 00:38:27,114
in terms of

1033
00:38:27,655 --> 00:38:28,155
the

1034
00:38:28,889 --> 00:38:31,449
quality of the conversations that can be had

1035
00:38:31,449 --> 00:38:33,130
and, you know, the kinds of questions that

1036
00:38:33,130 --> 00:38:35,449
we ask and dig into. Because I think

1037
00:38:35,449 --> 00:38:36,969
one of the things that struck me just

1038
00:38:36,969 --> 00:38:40,029
watching my kids develop and, you know, acquire

1039
00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:44,250
language and just their brains and how they're

1040
00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:46,965
just sponges is just how naturally

1041
00:38:47,344 --> 00:38:49,364
curious kids are. They ask

1042
00:38:49,744 --> 00:38:51,284
so many questions.

1043
00:38:51,985 --> 00:38:53,505
They really do. Yeah. I was in New

1044
00:38:53,505 --> 00:38:56,545
York recently with my 3 kids, and I

1045
00:38:56,545 --> 00:38:58,385
was always one of them was walking next

1046
00:38:58,385 --> 00:39:00,164
to me as we're walking through the city,

1047
00:39:00,460 --> 00:39:03,739
and it was literally question after question after

1048
00:39:03,739 --> 00:39:06,460
question after question. Because they just they wanna

1049
00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:08,460
know. They're filling in their pieces of the

1050
00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:11,019
puzzle of how the world works and why

1051
00:39:11,019 --> 00:39:13,344
things are the way they are. And

1052
00:39:13,724 --> 00:39:15,964
that natural cure we stop that over time.

1053
00:39:15,964 --> 00:39:18,045
We we stop asking questions. We start making

1054
00:39:18,045 --> 00:39:20,444
assumptions or we just take what other people

1055
00:39:20,444 --> 00:39:21,184
have given.

1056
00:39:21,804 --> 00:39:25,184
And I think the but that innate questioning

1057
00:39:25,949 --> 00:39:26,690
works so

1058
00:39:27,150 --> 00:39:29,070
well if we can hone it for the

1059
00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:31,070
right sort of analytical thinking. Like, this is

1060
00:39:31,070 --> 00:39:32,750
the time when we should be teaching logical

1061
00:39:32,750 --> 00:39:34,750
problem solving because they've already got all the

1062
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:36,989
questions. We can teach them how to answer

1063
00:39:36,989 --> 00:39:39,710
their own questions in smart ways. That would

1064
00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:41,250
be incredibly powerful

1065
00:39:41,974 --> 00:39:43,574
and also take a big burden off of

1066
00:39:43,574 --> 00:39:44,474
me as mother.

1067
00:39:45,815 --> 00:39:47,835
That's no. I remember it. It's so funny.

1068
00:39:47,974 --> 00:39:49,655
Yep. You and and you've got my brain,

1069
00:39:49,655 --> 00:39:51,255
like, on fire right now. Like, I feel

1070
00:39:51,255 --> 00:39:53,255
like I just have so many questions and

1071
00:39:53,255 --> 00:39:54,855
so many things that I wanna talk to

1072
00:39:54,855 --> 00:39:56,535
you about when it comes to, like, learning

1073
00:39:56,535 --> 00:39:58,269
and math and that kinda thing. But on

1074
00:39:58,269 --> 00:39:59,949
that last point, I think this is why

1075
00:39:59,949 --> 00:40:01,549
my grandmother bought me one of those big

1076
00:40:01,549 --> 00:40:02,289
red encyclopedias

1077
00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:04,670
because I was full of questions. Look at

1078
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:06,589
that. And I remember asking her what was

1079
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:08,130
what's the difference between

1080
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:11,389
a condor, a vulture, and a buzzard? And,

1081
00:40:11,710 --> 00:40:13,034
she's like, I don't know. Let's look in

1082
00:40:13,034 --> 00:40:14,795
the book. And of course that, like, that

1083
00:40:14,795 --> 00:40:15,994
was a way to get her off the

1084
00:40:15,994 --> 00:40:17,994
hook and me diving into and there is

1085
00:40:17,994 --> 00:40:19,514
a difference. I won't go into it on

1086
00:40:19,514 --> 00:40:21,514
the show, but there is a significant difference

1087
00:40:21,514 --> 00:40:22,494
between those 3

1088
00:40:22,875 --> 00:40:24,674
birds. But, yeah, I think to that point,

1089
00:40:24,674 --> 00:40:26,670
I'm gonna remember because you looked it up.

1090
00:40:26,670 --> 00:40:28,349
It wasn't just a pattern. Even know how

1091
00:40:28,349 --> 00:40:30,829
old I was. Like Yep. Yeah. Exactly. And

1092
00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:32,190
I still there are times that I'm like,

1093
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:33,549
I'm almost 50 years old, and I'm like,

1094
00:40:33,549 --> 00:40:36,049
where'd that book ever go? Like, you know?

1095
00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:38,349
You'd like to consult it. Yeah. I really

1096
00:40:38,349 --> 00:40:40,369
did. So, I mean but what's really interesting

1097
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:42,835
is, you know, you kinda mentioned about

1098
00:40:43,454 --> 00:40:44,835
diff different factors

1099
00:40:45,135 --> 00:40:46,815
or did or just a reality that we

1100
00:40:46,815 --> 00:40:47,954
stop asking questions,

1101
00:40:48,815 --> 00:40:50,815
and we start operating on assumptions. Or maybe

1102
00:40:50,815 --> 00:40:52,335
we just, like, know stuff, and we think

1103
00:40:52,335 --> 00:40:54,014
that it Yeah. But I think we think

1104
00:40:54,014 --> 00:40:55,394
we know more than we do.

1105
00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:57,809
I well, my gosh. A 1000%. I was

1106
00:40:57,809 --> 00:41:00,449
just looking at some reactions to polling data

1107
00:41:00,449 --> 00:41:02,049
in this election, and I think, man, we

1108
00:41:02,049 --> 00:41:03,429
really think we know a lot.

1109
00:41:04,130 --> 00:41:06,530
I'm not gonna catch that one. Yeah. We

1110
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:08,505
you know, that's I mean, we we're closer

1111
00:41:08,505 --> 00:41:10,204
to November. Maybe we can reconnect.

1112
00:41:10,585 --> 00:41:12,344
But but I think I think it is

1113
00:41:12,344 --> 00:41:13,944
one of those things where we do stop

1114
00:41:13,944 --> 00:41:15,885
asking questions. And I think that

1115
00:41:16,505 --> 00:41:18,764
a lot of times adults are complicit

1116
00:41:19,065 --> 00:41:21,565
in that cessation of questioning.

1117
00:41:22,699 --> 00:41:24,619
I remember learning I so I used to

1118
00:41:24,619 --> 00:41:27,019
teach middle and high school social studies, and

1119
00:41:27,019 --> 00:41:28,880
I remember finding out that there was

1120
00:41:29,179 --> 00:41:30,880
a a girl, 11 years old,

1121
00:41:31,179 --> 00:41:31,679
who

1122
00:41:32,059 --> 00:41:33,819
one of her teachers, I will not say

1123
00:41:33,819 --> 00:41:34,425
which one,

1124
00:41:35,465 --> 00:41:38,265
had put a limitation of questions that she

1125
00:41:38,265 --> 00:41:40,985
was allowed to ask during class. Oh. Said

1126
00:41:40,985 --> 00:41:42,905
you can Does that sound a signal? 2

1127
00:41:42,905 --> 00:41:43,405
questions

1128
00:41:43,864 --> 00:41:46,105
during class. And, you know, she and the

1129
00:41:46,105 --> 00:41:47,785
other kids kinda laughed it off, and I

1130
00:41:47,785 --> 00:41:50,219
was like, this is not okay because I

1131
00:41:50,219 --> 00:41:52,219
was a history teacher. You have to be

1132
00:41:52,219 --> 00:41:54,940
able to ask questions Yeah. In in any

1133
00:41:54,940 --> 00:41:57,340
classroom, and and I and that mystified me.

1134
00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:58,559
And then I think about

1135
00:41:58,940 --> 00:42:00,380
all of the kids that I met at

1136
00:42:00,380 --> 00:42:03,664
age 11 who are so goofy and inquisitive

1137
00:42:03,724 --> 00:42:05,905
and curious and wanna know so much,

1138
00:42:06,204 --> 00:42:07,485
a lot of them by the time they

1139
00:42:07,485 --> 00:42:09,585
were juniors or seniors in my classes,

1140
00:42:09,965 --> 00:42:12,605
their level of engagement had really tailed off.

1141
00:42:12,605 --> 00:42:15,105
And I'm sure there's a lot of factors,

1142
00:42:15,244 --> 00:42:17,085
lot of things go into it, but some

1143
00:42:17,085 --> 00:42:18,659
of it is that we don't honor this.

1144
00:42:18,659 --> 00:42:21,219
And I think what you're saying oh, man.

1145
00:42:21,219 --> 00:42:22,920
I was just in a meeting last week,

1146
00:42:24,019 --> 00:42:24,519
where

1147
00:42:25,139 --> 00:42:27,239
what you're saying runs so counter

1148
00:42:27,619 --> 00:42:31,239
to some of the conversation about mathematics instruction

1149
00:42:31,619 --> 00:42:34,204
that we're not in we're not encouraging

1150
00:42:34,585 --> 00:42:35,085
curiosity.

1151
00:42:35,704 --> 00:42:38,184
It's it's about getting on level. It's about

1152
00:42:38,184 --> 00:42:40,525
proficiency with skills, and those things are important.

1153
00:42:40,744 --> 00:42:41,485
Yeah. But

1154
00:42:41,785 --> 00:42:43,385
the question is how do we get there?

1155
00:42:43,385 --> 00:42:45,565
And I think that's so powerful.

1156
00:42:46,170 --> 00:42:48,969
And just on your specific example, just some

1157
00:42:48,969 --> 00:42:50,109
slight reframing

1158
00:42:50,569 --> 00:42:53,130
could have turned that situation from instead of

1159
00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:53,630
it

1160
00:42:53,929 --> 00:42:56,969
squashing curiosity to helping hone it. Right. What

1161
00:42:56,969 --> 00:42:59,530
if instead it was write down every question

1162
00:42:59,530 --> 00:43:01,884
you have and then pick your 2 most

1163
00:43:01,884 --> 00:43:04,204
interesting or your 2 best questions and we'll

1164
00:43:04,204 --> 00:43:06,764
dive into those? That puts a completely different

1165
00:43:06,764 --> 00:43:08,464
framework on Oh, yeah.

1166
00:43:08,844 --> 00:43:09,664
That exchange

1167
00:43:10,045 --> 00:43:10,545
and,

1168
00:43:10,844 --> 00:43:13,340
yeah, how the student then feels of what

1169
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:15,199
their their questions in general

1170
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:17,420
and still gives the same message. Right. Don't

1171
00:43:17,420 --> 00:43:19,019
ask a single one because maybe it gets

1172
00:43:19,019 --> 00:43:22,460
us off track, but don't kill that urge.

1173
00:43:22,460 --> 00:43:24,380
Just own it in a way that it's

1174
00:43:24,380 --> 00:43:26,934
going to work for all of us. Yeah.

1175
00:43:27,074 --> 00:43:28,594
What what we ended up doing, and it

1176
00:43:28,594 --> 00:43:31,155
wasn't an issue for me. Like, I'm all

1177
00:43:31,195 --> 00:43:33,074
I was always mindful about airtime for other

1178
00:43:33,074 --> 00:43:34,434
kids. But what I ended up what I

1179
00:43:34,434 --> 00:43:35,715
ended up saying to her, I was like,

1180
00:43:35,715 --> 00:43:37,394
no. I mean, you do ask a lot

1181
00:43:37,394 --> 00:43:39,849
of questions. It's actually super cool that you

1182
00:43:39,849 --> 00:43:41,769
do that because how do you learn things

1183
00:43:41,769 --> 00:43:43,690
if you don't ask questions? Like and I

1184
00:43:43,690 --> 00:43:45,050
was like, so so what I want like,

1185
00:43:45,050 --> 00:43:46,730
I I just wanna answer all your questions

1186
00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:48,650
right now, but I know that maybe not

1187
00:43:48,650 --> 00:43:50,570
everybody wants to be a part of our

1188
00:43:50,570 --> 00:43:51,070
conversation.

1189
00:43:51,594 --> 00:43:52,954
But why don't you write those things down,

1190
00:43:52,954 --> 00:43:54,795
and let's just work through them, like, you

1191
00:43:54,795 --> 00:43:57,035
know, when we get a chance. And and

1192
00:43:57,035 --> 00:43:58,954
she was thrilled to have this, and it

1193
00:43:58,954 --> 00:44:00,474
was just and some of them were silly

1194
00:44:00,474 --> 00:44:01,515
questions because she was 11.

1195
00:44:02,715 --> 00:44:04,155
But they were great. And I and I

1196
00:44:04,155 --> 00:44:06,140
think yes to to the,

1197
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:08,960
fostering of that kind of curiosity.

1198
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:11,340
Well, I'm so I'm so excited to get

1199
00:44:11,340 --> 00:44:13,200
into the conversation about the book.

1200
00:44:13,579 --> 00:44:16,219
The book is called Daphne Draws Data, and

1201
00:44:16,219 --> 00:44:18,079
we will get into

1202
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:20,719
the creation of that book,

1203
00:44:21,344 --> 00:44:23,905
what Cole is hoping to accomplish with it,

1204
00:44:23,905 --> 00:44:25,525
the impact it's already had,

1205
00:44:26,304 --> 00:44:29,344
when we get back from this message from

1206
00:44:29,344 --> 00:44:30,005
our sponsor.

1207
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,739
What up, everybody? Welcome

1208
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:37,619
back

1209
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:38,820
to,

1210
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,440
2 Dope Teachers and Mike. I believe we're

1211
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:42,579
at episode 303

1212
00:44:43,039 --> 00:44:45,920
at this point. Something like that. Yeah. So

1213
00:44:46,844 --> 00:44:47,344
Definitely.

1214
00:44:48,204 --> 00:44:49,724
And, yeah, we've been around for a good

1215
00:44:49,724 --> 00:44:50,224
minute.

1216
00:44:50,684 --> 00:44:52,144
You know, we are the podcast

1217
00:44:52,525 --> 00:44:53,025
that,

1218
00:44:53,885 --> 00:44:55,905
that just won't go away apparently

1219
00:44:56,364 --> 00:44:57,344
after the hiatus.

1220
00:44:57,724 --> 00:44:59,724
Also, thank you everybody for just your support

1221
00:44:59,724 --> 00:45:02,019
during our 3 month hiatus. Me and Kev,

1222
00:45:02,019 --> 00:45:05,619
we're we're, like, we're experiencing transitions in life

1223
00:45:05,619 --> 00:45:06,279
and work,

1224
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:08,359
but we are dedicated

1225
00:45:08,659 --> 00:45:09,400
to continuing

1226
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:11,719
to bring you disruptive content.

1227
00:45:12,259 --> 00:45:14,259
We are the most dangerous podcast in the

1228
00:45:14,259 --> 00:45:15,559
schoolhouse for a reason,

1229
00:45:16,295 --> 00:45:18,055
and bringing you things that are just gonna

1230
00:45:18,055 --> 00:45:18,555
remix,

1231
00:45:19,095 --> 00:45:21,095
our thinking about certain things. And in this

1232
00:45:21,095 --> 00:45:23,114
case, we're remixing the conversation

1233
00:45:23,735 --> 00:45:25,835
on girls and mathematics,

1234
00:45:27,255 --> 00:45:27,755
with,

1235
00:45:28,135 --> 00:45:29,835
with Cole Nussbaum and Affleck,

1236
00:45:30,170 --> 00:45:34,010
author of multiple books, but specifically talking about

1237
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:34,510
Daphne

1238
00:45:34,809 --> 00:45:35,309
Draws

1239
00:45:35,690 --> 00:45:37,849
Data. So I'm super excited about first of

1240
00:45:37,849 --> 00:45:38,750
all, great title.

1241
00:45:39,690 --> 00:45:40,190
And,

1242
00:45:40,970 --> 00:45:43,755
I think that it's just so eye catching

1243
00:45:43,755 --> 00:45:45,755
when it comes to, like, what's within the

1244
00:45:45,755 --> 00:45:47,675
book. But wanna give you a moment to

1245
00:45:47,675 --> 00:45:49,375
sort of talk a little bit about

1246
00:45:49,835 --> 00:45:51,914
how did this book come to be, and

1247
00:45:51,914 --> 00:45:54,074
what might people find in it? When, not

1248
00:45:54,074 --> 00:45:56,734
if, when people show up to Dope Nation

1249
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,239
when they purchase this book and, bring it

1250
00:45:59,239 --> 00:45:59,820
to kids.

1251
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,500
Yes. So,

1252
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:04,460
Daphne is a delightful,

1253
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:05,420
friendly

1254
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:06,219
dragon

1255
00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:08,619
who, gets a little bit chastised

1256
00:46:09,195 --> 00:46:10,655
by her brother because

1257
00:46:10,954 --> 00:46:14,235
she has a unique talent. She really loves

1258
00:46:14,235 --> 00:46:16,715
to draw. And the thing she loves to

1259
00:46:16,715 --> 00:46:18,175
draw more than anything else

1260
00:46:18,635 --> 00:46:22,075
is data. She likes to make graphs and

1261
00:46:22,075 --> 00:46:23,855
help others solve their problems.

1262
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:25,989
And so she gets chastised for her brother

1263
00:46:25,989 --> 00:46:27,829
for that not being a dragon y and

1264
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:29,670
her sort of Her brother Declan. I wanna

1265
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:31,349
know. Her brother Declan. I am not a

1266
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:33,429
fan of alliteration. Hopefully I don't get too

1267
00:46:33,429 --> 00:46:34,250
far with that.

1268
00:46:34,789 --> 00:46:37,674
And so Daphne ventures out of the cave,

1269
00:46:37,994 --> 00:46:39,674
in search of a place where she can

1270
00:46:39,674 --> 00:46:42,014
be herself and be appreciated for being herself.

1271
00:46:42,714 --> 00:46:45,835
So she meets many friends on her journey.

1272
00:46:45,835 --> 00:46:47,214
She goes to the jungle.

1273
00:46:47,914 --> 00:46:49,775
She goes under the sea,

1274
00:46:50,635 --> 00:46:52,559
even out of this world to outer

1275
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:55,860
space and each location. Alien.

1276
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,160
Yeah. Over here on this Yeah. It's a

1277
00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:59,539
good adventure with some aliens.

1278
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,380
And along each of her adventures,

1279
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:02,660
she encounters,

1280
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,380
you know, a group who's having an issue

1281
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:08,775
that she helps by drawing data. So asking

1282
00:47:08,775 --> 00:47:10,315
a question, collecting data,

1283
00:47:10,614 --> 00:47:13,735
drawing it into a very pictorial version of

1284
00:47:13,735 --> 00:47:14,394
a graph

1285
00:47:14,775 --> 00:47:17,255
and then solving their problem. And so in

1286
00:47:17,255 --> 00:47:20,250
each case, she quickly becomes their friend because,

1287
00:47:20,250 --> 00:47:21,710
as I mentioned, she's delightful,

1288
00:47:22,170 --> 00:47:24,090
but realizes, you know, she's still she's a

1289
00:47:24,090 --> 00:47:26,489
dragon, so she still doesn't fit into these

1290
00:47:26,489 --> 00:47:26,989
places.

1291
00:47:27,289 --> 00:47:29,130
Right. And then by the end of her

1292
00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:30,570
journey I don't know. Should I give away

1293
00:47:30,570 --> 00:47:31,230
the ending?

1294
00:47:32,650 --> 00:47:34,190
It's it's up to you.

1295
00:47:34,625 --> 00:47:37,344
So she learns that she actually she can

1296
00:47:37,344 --> 00:47:39,764
be appreciated for her uniqueness

1297
00:47:40,065 --> 00:47:41,125
and for her talents

1298
00:47:41,585 --> 00:47:44,464
and realizes that she can help solve problems

1299
00:47:44,464 --> 00:47:46,244
at home in the way that she has,

1300
00:47:46,625 --> 00:47:47,525
on her adventures.

1301
00:47:47,824 --> 00:47:50,260
It's it's a happy ending. A hero's journey.

1302
00:47:50,260 --> 00:47:53,159
Heroines. Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's right.

1303
00:47:53,219 --> 00:47:55,380
Shero's journey. Definitely. So,

1304
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:58,579
like, what was it that motive? Because you'd

1305
00:47:58,579 --> 00:47:59,559
mentioned early

1306
00:48:00,019 --> 00:48:02,500
that you were more you you had written

1307
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:04,894
a lot of books for adult readers, particularly

1308
00:48:05,355 --> 00:48:07,275
along the same lines. Right? Around the house.

1309
00:48:07,275 --> 00:48:09,114
It's exactly the same lines. It's really funny.

1310
00:48:09,114 --> 00:48:12,094
Yeah. It's this combination of graphs and

1311
00:48:12,394 --> 00:48:12,894
story.

1312
00:48:13,434 --> 00:48:15,434
And so it seemed to make a lot

1313
00:48:15,434 --> 00:48:17,695
of sense to then have a children's

1314
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:18,739
story

1315
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:21,280
where the graphs make an appearance, but where

1316
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,179
there can be

1317
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,480
story that brings them together and makes the

1318
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,559
numbers and the graphs relevant and then a

1319
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:28,079
little bit of learning along the way. And

1320
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:30,320
then the book's formatted such that, you know,

1321
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,000
especially with younger readers, you know, you can

1322
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,195
just appreciate the bright illustrations and the fun

1323
00:48:35,195 --> 00:48:36,735
characters and the story.

1324
00:48:37,035 --> 00:48:40,074
But then there's also a graph glossary at

1325
00:48:40,074 --> 00:48:42,394
the end that goes into each of the

1326
00:48:42,394 --> 00:48:44,335
4 main types of graphs used,

1327
00:48:45,035 --> 00:48:47,835
breaks them down for young learners, gives some

1328
00:48:47,835 --> 00:48:48,655
more examples.

1329
00:48:49,409 --> 00:48:52,069
And then we are adding additional,

1330
00:48:53,969 --> 00:48:57,409
resources and learning on the accompanying website for

1331
00:48:57,409 --> 00:48:59,889
that as well. So the idea is engage

1332
00:48:59,889 --> 00:49:02,530
through the story, teach along the way, and

1333
00:49:02,530 --> 00:49:04,335
then hopefully by the end of that, you've

1334
00:49:04,414 --> 00:49:07,155
created some potential data detectives who are inquisitive

1335
00:49:07,454 --> 00:49:10,655
enough to wanna learn more and try drawing

1336
00:49:10,655 --> 00:49:11,635
data themselves.

1337
00:49:12,335 --> 00:49:14,414
Because I think if, if a dragon can

1338
00:49:14,414 --> 00:49:15,234
draw data,

1339
00:49:15,775 --> 00:49:17,920
you know, anyone can. That's right.

1340
00:49:18,619 --> 00:49:20,780
So one one problem that I'll that I'll

1341
00:49:20,780 --> 00:49:22,780
have you sort of, you know, kind of

1342
00:49:22,780 --> 00:49:25,119
outline in this is the banana peel problem.

1343
00:49:25,340 --> 00:49:27,599
So so as an example of,

1344
00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:29,599
how Daphne is

1345
00:49:30,025 --> 00:49:30,764
is using

1346
00:49:31,144 --> 00:49:33,704
her her drawing skills to solve a problem

1347
00:49:33,704 --> 00:49:34,445
with data,

1348
00:49:34,824 --> 00:49:37,385
what was the banana peel problem that faced

1349
00:49:37,385 --> 00:49:39,065
the people of the jungle or the I'm

1350
00:49:39,065 --> 00:49:41,304
sorry, the creatures of the jungle? Yes. Daphne

1351
00:49:41,304 --> 00:49:43,465
goes to the jungle in her first adventure,

1352
00:49:43,465 --> 00:49:45,244
and she encounters a group of monkeys.

1353
00:49:45,630 --> 00:49:48,589
And they they're mad because someone has been

1354
00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:49,650
stealing their bananas.

1355
00:49:50,029 --> 00:49:52,909
And so she she helps them collect the

1356
00:49:52,909 --> 00:49:55,069
data. They go to each tree. They count

1357
00:49:55,069 --> 00:49:57,809
the number of banana peels under each tree.

1358
00:49:58,144 --> 00:49:59,744
They realize there are a lot of banana

1359
00:49:59,744 --> 00:50:01,824
peels. So she starts drawing the data, but

1360
00:50:01,824 --> 00:50:03,824
instead of drawing every single one, she makes

1361
00:50:03,824 --> 00:50:05,824
a key that says one banana peel drawing

1362
00:50:05,824 --> 00:50:08,385
is going to be 5 banana peels. So,

1363
00:50:08,385 --> 00:50:09,744
you know, under tree 1 So you don't

1364
00:50:09,744 --> 00:50:11,125
have to draw every single

1365
00:50:11,505 --> 00:50:12,885
one. Peel. Exactly.

1366
00:50:13,184 --> 00:50:15,000
To count for 10 banana peels.

1367
00:50:15,460 --> 00:50:17,699
You know, tree number 2 has 30 banana

1368
00:50:17,699 --> 00:50:20,259
peels under it. So that's 6 banana peel

1369
00:50:20,259 --> 00:50:22,099
drawings and so forth. Banana peels. That was

1370
00:50:22,099 --> 00:50:23,699
a lot of banana peels. And it turned

1371
00:50:23,699 --> 00:50:26,659
out the culprit was in tree number 2

1372
00:50:26,659 --> 00:50:29,515
there. Oh, so it helps them identify the

1373
00:50:29,515 --> 00:50:32,094
banana thief in that vignette.

1374
00:50:32,555 --> 00:50:35,055
So simple things. But, you know, and kids

1375
00:50:35,355 --> 00:50:37,355
won't even realize that they're looking at a

1376
00:50:37,355 --> 00:50:38,954
bar chart when they see this. Yeah. The

1377
00:50:38,954 --> 00:50:40,635
thing is phenomenal to me is you can

1378
00:50:40,635 --> 00:50:42,780
put these pictures and I have done I

1379
00:50:42,780 --> 00:50:44,239
have I have my own kids and

1380
00:50:45,019 --> 00:50:47,599
read to their classrooms, my test subjects. Right.

1381
00:50:48,539 --> 00:50:49,039
And

1382
00:50:49,420 --> 00:50:51,420
you put these in front. It's like any

1383
00:50:51,420 --> 00:50:53,420
child can tell you which stack of banana

1384
00:50:53,420 --> 00:50:54,720
peels is the biggest.

1385
00:50:55,235 --> 00:50:57,394
And, you know, while this may not be

1386
00:50:57,394 --> 00:50:58,855
the problem that they're encountering,

1387
00:50:59,235 --> 00:51:01,554
we can give them then practical ways that

1388
00:51:01,554 --> 00:51:04,195
they could do this same exercise with things

1389
00:51:04,195 --> 00:51:07,155
that might be interesting to them. Yeah. Right?

1390
00:51:07,155 --> 00:51:08,880
You get I think of, like, my boys

1391
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,400
when they were little and they loved Hot

1392
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,920
Wheels. I was like, well, you know, what

1393
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,559
if you organize those by color and actually

1394
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:16,319
stack them up? Like, you could make a

1395
00:51:16,319 --> 00:51:18,639
bar chart on the floor out of Hot

1396
00:51:18,639 --> 00:51:20,639
Wheels and then decide that you don't need

1397
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:22,799
any more red Hot Wheels because you already

1398
00:51:22,799 --> 00:51:24,284
have a lot of those or, you know,

1399
00:51:24,284 --> 00:51:26,204
whatever the case may be. Yeah. Or you

1400
00:51:26,204 --> 00:51:28,605
learn something about your own preferences, like, maybe

1401
00:51:28,605 --> 00:51:30,924
arrange them by style or, like, make and

1402
00:51:30,924 --> 00:51:32,844
model. Yeah. No. What you're what you're talking

1403
00:51:32,844 --> 00:51:35,025
about connects to something that

1404
00:51:35,324 --> 00:51:37,565
I learned years years ago in,

1405
00:51:37,885 --> 00:51:40,119
my master's program. I learned a lot about,

1406
00:51:41,140 --> 00:51:43,219
the so there's a book that that we

1407
00:51:43,219 --> 00:51:45,880
read in class called The Having Wonderful Ideas

1408
00:51:46,019 --> 00:51:49,400
by Eleanor Duckworth. So Eleanor Duckworth, phenomenal,

1409
00:51:49,700 --> 00:51:52,320
like, educational theorist who really believed in this

1410
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:53,239
kind of curiosity based education. And there's a

1411
00:51:53,585 --> 00:51:54,085
great

1412
00:51:54,864 --> 00:51:57,264
video, folks. You should check it out online,

1413
00:51:57,264 --> 00:51:58,484
especially if you're a teacher of young kids.

1414
00:51:58,489 --> 00:51:58,534
There's a great video online of she gave

1415
00:51:58,534 --> 00:51:59,444
a bunch of kids, I

1416
00:51:59,744 --> 00:52:00,704
think they were 5 or 6,

1417
00:52:01,984 --> 00:52:03,764
just a bunch of buttons,

1418
00:52:07,780 --> 00:52:09,860
and just like buttons from clothing and that

1419
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:11,700
kind of thing. And she told them to

1420
00:52:11,700 --> 00:52:14,579
arrange them. Just organize them in whatever way

1421
00:52:14,579 --> 00:52:16,420
you want to. And and she said, there's

1422
00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:18,500
no wrong way to do this. Just arrange

1423
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:21,000
them. And then the ways that kids developed

1424
00:52:21,525 --> 00:52:22,264
their understanding,

1425
00:52:22,964 --> 00:52:24,484
and not not only the the way they

1426
00:52:24,484 --> 00:52:25,464
understood buttons,

1427
00:52:25,764 --> 00:52:26,744
but how they

1428
00:52:27,125 --> 00:52:30,025
wanted to organize those buttons was so powerful.

1429
00:52:30,244 --> 00:52:31,525
Like, there there was one kid that was

1430
00:52:31,525 --> 00:52:32,804
like, I did them by colors because I

1431
00:52:32,804 --> 00:52:34,440
like how they look in colors and that

1432
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,320
kind of thing. There's another kid that was

1433
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,780
like, well, I arranged them

1434
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:39,539
based on buttons

1435
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:41,920
that would be on my school clothes versus

1436
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,160
buttons that would be on my play clothes

1437
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,840
versus buttons that would be on my church

1438
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,180
clothes. And so just, like, the possibilities

1439
00:52:48,934 --> 00:52:52,234
when you give young people, children, the ability

1440
00:52:52,295 --> 00:52:52,795
to

1441
00:52:53,494 --> 00:52:56,054
work things out and arrange and organize and

1442
00:52:56,054 --> 00:52:58,215
draw meaning, I mean, that's so powerful, which

1443
00:52:58,215 --> 00:53:01,014
kinda gets sweet to answer in that way.

1444
00:53:01,014 --> 00:53:03,014
Right? And that's one of the really cool

1445
00:53:03,014 --> 00:53:05,110
things that actually a lot of adults grapple

1446
00:53:05,110 --> 00:53:07,110
with when it comes to visualize dating data

1447
00:53:07,110 --> 00:53:07,610
is

1448
00:53:07,989 --> 00:53:10,389
any data can be visualized a lot of

1449
00:53:10,389 --> 00:53:12,630
different ways. Right? So the banana peels, like,

1450
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:13,750
I put them in a bar chart, but

1451
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:16,309
that wasn't wasn't the right answer. That wasn't

1452
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:19,454
the only way to do that. Right. And

1453
00:53:19,454 --> 00:53:20,974
so we have we have a number of

1454
00:53:20,974 --> 00:53:23,534
activities that help prompt kids Yeah. Through this.

1455
00:53:23,534 --> 00:53:25,054
As well, I'll just share actually the bar

1456
00:53:25,054 --> 00:53:27,135
chart activity that's in the glossary since we're

1457
00:53:27,135 --> 00:53:29,315
talking about one of the bar chart examples

1458
00:53:29,454 --> 00:53:29,954
is

1459
00:53:30,494 --> 00:53:32,719
take everything you eat for a day or

1460
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,960
in a meal and note the color. Right?

1461
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,800
So first you're making a list of red,

1462
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,599
orange, yellow, green, blue, and so forth. And

1463
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:40,500
just tally

1464
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,400
what you eat in a day and what

1465
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,239
color it is. And then at the end

1466
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,304
of the day, you can add those up

1467
00:53:46,304 --> 00:53:48,704
and now you can make your colorful bar

1468
00:53:48,704 --> 00:53:50,464
chart of what you ate in a day.

1469
00:53:50,464 --> 00:53:52,885
And with the idea being, is it colorful?

1470
00:53:52,944 --> 00:53:55,184
Did you eat a lot of different fruits

1471
00:53:55,184 --> 00:53:57,444
and vegetables and those sorts of things? And

1472
00:53:57,585 --> 00:53:59,444
or, you know, is everything brown?

1473
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:01,260
Yeah. Right. Need

1474
00:54:01,799 --> 00:54:03,659
a few more vegetables in your life.

1475
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,359
Right. Definitely. Is it all the color of

1476
00:54:06,359 --> 00:54:08,839
airheads or takis and that kind of thing?

1477
00:54:08,839 --> 00:54:10,519
But yeah. And I and I think then

1478
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:12,599
taking it, like, here's the constructivist in me.

1479
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:14,119
Right? And then taking it, but, like, what

1480
00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:15,924
do you think this means? Yes. What do

1481
00:54:15,924 --> 00:54:17,444
you think this means? And and you could

1482
00:54:17,444 --> 00:54:19,284
see I can already see this playing out

1483
00:54:19,284 --> 00:54:21,545
in classrooms where kids are like, oh,

1484
00:54:21,844 --> 00:54:23,684
I think it means that these are the

1485
00:54:23,684 --> 00:54:25,844
snacks that are available, or I think it

1486
00:54:25,844 --> 00:54:28,005
means that, you know, like, you just can't

1487
00:54:28,005 --> 00:54:30,469
predict what they're gonna kinda come up with.

1488
00:54:30,469 --> 00:54:32,329
This kind of gets me to,

1489
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:34,409
you know, obviously,

1490
00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:37,190
as as an author, you know why you

1491
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:38,630
put work out there, and I think you've

1492
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:39,130
articulated

1493
00:54:39,429 --> 00:54:41,050
that. People are people

1494
00:54:41,445 --> 00:54:43,625
will receive the work in in ways

1495
00:54:43,925 --> 00:54:46,244
that are particular to them. So the question

1496
00:54:46,244 --> 00:54:47,224
I have for you

1497
00:54:47,605 --> 00:54:48,105
is

1498
00:54:48,644 --> 00:54:50,885
how what are you hoping will be kind

1499
00:54:50,885 --> 00:54:52,184
of the result

1500
00:54:52,805 --> 00:54:55,230
of work like Daphne Draws

1501
00:54:55,849 --> 00:54:57,930
Data and and other work that may follow-up.

1502
00:54:57,930 --> 00:55:00,489
What are you hoping to see happen as

1503
00:55:00,489 --> 00:55:01,710
a result of this book?

1504
00:55:02,170 --> 00:55:05,070
I think I would love to see it

1505
00:55:05,210 --> 00:55:08,750
help empower kids and help them understand

1506
00:55:10,585 --> 00:55:12,125
how how their brains

1507
00:55:12,744 --> 00:55:15,885
work in this really amazing fashion of structuring

1508
00:55:16,025 --> 00:55:16,525
questions.

1509
00:55:17,224 --> 00:55:18,985
And if we can just help them with

1510
00:55:18,985 --> 00:55:20,585
that next bit of, you know, they've got

1511
00:55:20,585 --> 00:55:22,425
the questions. That's naturally there. Yeah. So now

1512
00:55:22,425 --> 00:55:24,110
if we can help them understand, well, now

1513
00:55:24,110 --> 00:55:24,769
that you have

1514
00:55:25,150 --> 00:55:27,230
the question, what data would you where would

1515
00:55:27,230 --> 00:55:29,469
you look to find data that would help

1516
00:55:29,469 --> 00:55:32,910
you answer that? Yeah. And then draw it.

1517
00:55:32,910 --> 00:55:34,929
Because I think, you know, we talked about

1518
00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:38,315
earlier, that that asking questions goes away. Another

1519
00:55:38,315 --> 00:55:39,755
thing that a lot of people stop doing

1520
00:55:39,755 --> 00:55:41,514
is drawing. You think about us kids, we

1521
00:55:41,514 --> 00:55:42,014
all

1522
00:55:42,315 --> 00:55:44,074
we all had crayons and markers and we

1523
00:55:44,074 --> 00:55:44,974
were all drawing.

1524
00:55:45,275 --> 00:55:47,434
And then over time, some people decide they're

1525
00:55:47,434 --> 00:55:49,034
going to be an artist and other people

1526
00:55:49,034 --> 00:55:50,234
decide, oh, I'm no good at drawing. I'm

1527
00:55:50,234 --> 00:55:52,039
not going to do do that anymore. Right.

1528
00:55:52,260 --> 00:55:54,260
If we could keep asking questions or keep

1529
00:55:54,260 --> 00:55:57,140
some sense of that and keep drawing, those

1530
00:55:57,140 --> 00:55:59,699
things go together in really neat ways. And

1531
00:55:59,699 --> 00:56:01,619
it doesn't have to be, you know, some

1532
00:56:01,619 --> 00:56:04,164
fancy application on your computer. Like, pen and

1533
00:56:04,164 --> 00:56:07,924
paper are completely adequate materials for a lot

1534
00:56:07,924 --> 00:56:10,644
of this. And that's really, I think, what

1535
00:56:10,644 --> 00:56:12,484
Daphne is trying to bring to kids is

1536
00:56:12,484 --> 00:56:12,984
just

1537
00:56:13,364 --> 00:56:16,969
the the magic and the power of numbers

1538
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:19,429
when you can harness it and use it

1539
00:56:19,429 --> 00:56:21,369
in a way that's going to help you

1540
00:56:21,590 --> 00:56:24,230
and maybe help you help others understand things

1541
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:26,710
and make better decisions about yourself, about the

1542
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:27,769
world around you.

1543
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:30,045
Yeah. And and this is a piece that

1544
00:56:30,364 --> 00:56:32,764
you alluded to a couple of times, and

1545
00:56:32,764 --> 00:56:34,944
I don't know if this was kind of

1546
00:56:35,484 --> 00:56:37,324
I don't know that this is something that

1547
00:56:37,324 --> 00:56:38,684
you were attempting to center,

1548
00:56:39,005 --> 00:56:41,005
in the book. But the thing I was

1549
00:56:41,005 --> 00:56:42,844
thinking about, like, so when you when you

1550
00:56:42,844 --> 00:56:44,625
said kids can, you know,

1551
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:47,769
take down data of what what it was

1552
00:56:47,769 --> 00:56:49,609
that you ate every day, like, over the

1553
00:56:49,609 --> 00:56:51,469
course of the day and then organize it,

1554
00:56:51,530 --> 00:56:53,710
that also is speaking to me

1555
00:56:54,250 --> 00:56:54,750
about

1556
00:56:55,050 --> 00:56:57,210
I've got this fixation on the slow work

1557
00:56:57,210 --> 00:56:59,690
right now. Right? Like, so much of what

1558
00:56:59,690 --> 00:57:01,735
we're trying to so much of what we're

1559
00:57:01,735 --> 00:57:02,795
asked to do

1560
00:57:03,175 --> 00:57:05,014
and what we're encouraging kids to do, I

1561
00:57:05,014 --> 00:57:06,215
think, in a lot of schools is, like,

1562
00:57:06,215 --> 00:57:07,574
quick, quick, quick. You gotta be able to

1563
00:57:07,574 --> 00:57:09,494
do this stuff fast, and you gotta be

1564
00:57:09,494 --> 00:57:10,775
able to move to the next thing. Let's

1565
00:57:10,775 --> 00:57:12,855
get you to these kinds of things. Because

1566
00:57:12,855 --> 00:57:13,994
I was thinking about,

1567
00:57:14,695 --> 00:57:15,195
like,

1568
00:57:15,699 --> 00:57:17,960
kids walking around with their little notebook

1569
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:20,500
and just jotting things down. And I mean,

1570
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:23,300
that data collection piece Yes. Maybe that's my

1571
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:26,099
dissertation brain working. But that data collection piece

1572
00:57:26,099 --> 00:57:27,160
can be so powerful,

1573
00:57:27,619 --> 00:57:29,320
and it can also

1574
00:57:30,105 --> 00:57:33,224
create a sense that true learning and insight

1575
00:57:33,224 --> 00:57:34,605
actually takes time.

1576
00:57:34,905 --> 00:57:37,565
It takes time. You have to be intentional

1577
00:57:37,625 --> 00:57:40,025
and gradual about it. There I mean, this

1578
00:57:40,505 --> 00:57:42,905
we teach with adults that, you know, the

1579
00:57:42,905 --> 00:57:45,304
the importance of slowing down and, you know,

1580
00:57:45,304 --> 00:57:46,930
you're if you're gonna make a presentation, the

1581
00:57:46,930 --> 00:57:48,369
first step is not go to your tool

1582
00:57:48,369 --> 00:57:50,210
and start building slides. The first step is

1583
00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:52,369
thinking about what are you going to say?

1584
00:57:52,369 --> 00:57:54,130
Who is your audience? How do we plan

1585
00:57:54,130 --> 00:57:57,329
in low tech ways? So it is absolutely

1586
00:57:57,329 --> 00:57:59,910
by design that Daphne is walking around with

1587
00:58:00,184 --> 00:58:02,505
a box of crayons and a notebook, not

1588
00:58:02,505 --> 00:58:04,045
a computer or calculator

1589
00:58:04,664 --> 00:58:07,784
because there is a different level of thought

1590
00:58:07,784 --> 00:58:09,565
that goes into committing,

1591
00:58:10,105 --> 00:58:13,324
you know, crayon to paper or pen paper

1592
00:58:13,625 --> 00:58:15,625
than pushing buttons on I like crayon to

1593
00:58:15,625 --> 00:58:18,320
paper. Yeah. Crayon to paper that it's thought

1594
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,420
and you're you can iterate as you go,

1595
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,480
and it can be I think I like

1596
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,719
crayons from the standpoint of sort of it

1597
00:58:24,719 --> 00:58:26,160
can be sloppy. It's not gonna be in

1598
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,320
the lines because they're not perfectly sharp. And

1599
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,000
especially the more you use them, the less

1600
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,574
sharp they're going to be. And and that's

1601
00:58:32,054 --> 00:58:32,554
okay.

1602
00:58:33,175 --> 00:58:35,335
And and it's playful and it's fun and

1603
00:58:35,335 --> 00:58:37,734
it's exciting because I think that is another

1604
00:58:37,734 --> 00:58:39,675
thing. And I think particularly

1605
00:58:40,054 --> 00:58:41,734
in math, but I you know, and I

1606
00:58:41,734 --> 00:58:43,974
will say this as a person who was

1607
00:58:43,974 --> 00:58:45,974
an educator in our public school system for

1608
00:58:45,974 --> 00:58:47,034
over 20 years.

1609
00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:49,660
It's it's not a matter matter of if

1610
00:58:49,660 --> 00:58:52,800
kids lose interest in subjects, it's when.

1611
00:58:53,099 --> 00:58:54,860
And I feel like the one of the

1612
00:58:54,860 --> 00:58:57,599
first ones to go where it becomes unengaging

1613
00:58:57,660 --> 00:58:58,720
and less fun,

1614
00:58:59,579 --> 00:59:02,059
is really around mathematics. And then you also

1615
00:59:02,059 --> 00:59:02,559
see

1616
00:59:02,864 --> 00:59:05,824
kids, and often broken down along race and

1617
00:59:05,824 --> 00:59:06,724
gender lines,

1618
00:59:07,105 --> 00:59:07,925
also lose,

1619
00:59:08,704 --> 00:59:11,344
lose interest in the sciences next and and

1620
00:59:11,344 --> 00:59:13,125
those kinds of things. And so I think

1621
00:59:13,344 --> 00:59:16,324
really instilling a sense of joy in that,

1622
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,300
I think is really powerful.

1623
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,539
A a connection to,

1624
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,859
the interview we did with Annie Feder.

1625
00:59:23,239 --> 00:59:24,679
And I don't know if you're familiar with

1626
00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:25,579
Annie's work,

1627
00:59:26,039 --> 00:59:28,380
but Annie has used,

1628
00:59:29,414 --> 00:59:30,775
the what do you notice, what do you

1629
00:59:30,775 --> 00:59:33,494
wonder approach to teaching math. I like that.

1630
00:59:33,494 --> 00:59:33,994
And,

1631
00:59:34,535 --> 00:59:36,295
yeah. And I can send you that episode,

1632
00:59:36,295 --> 00:59:37,594
but just such a fascinating

1633
00:59:37,974 --> 00:59:39,355
kind of approach to it,

1634
00:59:39,815 --> 00:59:40,875
this kind of humanizing

1635
00:59:41,799 --> 00:59:43,099
and culturally responsive

1636
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,480
approach to mathematics, which I think is just

1637
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:46,699
a really cool thing.

1638
00:59:48,119 --> 00:59:48,619
That's

1639
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:50,619
amazing. And so,

1640
00:59:51,079 --> 00:59:54,199
folks, when this episode is posted, which is

1641
00:59:54,585 --> 00:59:56,764
if you're hearing it, it's posted. Spoiler.

1642
00:59:58,184 --> 01:00:00,184
We will also provide links on how you

1643
01:00:00,184 --> 01:00:01,864
can learn more about the book, where you

1644
01:00:01,864 --> 01:00:04,204
can get the book. And, we also,

1645
01:00:04,824 --> 01:00:06,585
if you're in the Denver area, we can

1646
01:00:06,585 --> 01:00:08,940
make some recommendations of where you should go

1647
01:00:09,019 --> 01:00:10,639
and get that book and have it ordered.

1648
01:00:11,179 --> 01:00:13,019
So we're we always finish with the top

1649
01:00:13,019 --> 01:00:13,519
5.

1650
01:00:13,980 --> 01:00:16,139
This is a way to, have a little

1651
01:00:16,139 --> 01:00:17,579
bit of fun and just kind of get

1652
01:00:17,579 --> 01:00:20,059
some more insight on the story that you're

1653
01:00:20,059 --> 01:00:22,159
telling and that you hope to tell.

1654
01:00:22,485 --> 01:00:24,405
So we talked a little bit off mic.

1655
01:00:24,405 --> 01:00:26,664
So what you're gonna give us is,

1656
01:00:27,605 --> 01:00:29,945
5 ways to instill confidence

1657
01:00:30,244 --> 01:00:32,105
in girls about math.

1658
01:00:32,565 --> 01:00:34,565
So I'll reframe it a little bit because

1659
01:00:34,565 --> 01:00:36,099
I don't think it's just good. Please reframe

1660
01:00:36,099 --> 01:00:37,860
it. Yeah. Confidence in math. I know. I

1661
01:00:37,860 --> 01:00:40,739
don't care if you are. Said it. So

1662
01:00:40,739 --> 01:00:42,340
you know what? We're gonna we're gonna reframe

1663
01:00:42,340 --> 01:00:42,840
that.

1664
01:00:43,699 --> 01:00:45,639
5 top five ways to instill

1665
01:00:45,940 --> 01:00:48,599
confidence for kids regarding math.

1666
01:00:49,295 --> 01:00:50,114
I think participate

1667
01:00:50,815 --> 01:00:52,675
is probably my number one.

1668
01:00:53,215 --> 01:00:55,135
And as your participant and I don't know

1669
01:00:55,135 --> 01:00:56,414
if there'll be 5. I'm not gonna count

1670
01:00:56,414 --> 01:00:58,114
them off. As you're participating,

1671
01:00:59,375 --> 01:01:01,635
don't worry about getting it wrong

1672
01:01:02,170 --> 01:01:03,630
because you learn

1673
01:01:04,010 --> 01:01:05,469
more from the mistakes

1674
01:01:05,769 --> 01:01:08,590
than you do from the right answers.

1675
01:01:08,969 --> 01:01:09,469
So

1676
01:01:09,849 --> 01:01:10,349
participate,

1677
01:01:11,369 --> 01:01:13,710
use mistakes as opportunities

1678
01:01:14,329 --> 01:01:15,230
to learn,

1679
01:01:16,635 --> 01:01:18,954
buddy up. Right. If you are feeling less

1680
01:01:18,954 --> 01:01:21,434
confident in something, find somebody who feels more

1681
01:01:21,434 --> 01:01:23,114
confident in that. And maybe you can, you

1682
01:01:23,114 --> 01:01:25,295
know, vice versa and you can

1683
01:01:25,755 --> 01:01:27,535
partner and share approaches,

1684
01:01:28,474 --> 01:01:31,619
because there's never one right way to do

1685
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:34,820
things no matter how many people tell you

1686
01:01:34,820 --> 01:01:35,720
there is.

1687
01:01:36,740 --> 01:01:39,460
So just understanding how somebody else got to

1688
01:01:39,460 --> 01:01:41,860
a solution can open up new channels in

1689
01:01:41,860 --> 01:01:44,295
your own brain as well. Yeah. I'm gonna

1690
01:01:44,295 --> 01:01:45,974
say one thing that I mean, it maybe

1691
01:01:45,974 --> 01:01:48,295
goes along with the raising a hand and

1692
01:01:48,295 --> 01:01:48,795
participating

1693
01:01:49,175 --> 01:01:51,494
a little bit, but not directly with math.

1694
01:01:51,494 --> 01:01:53,494
I think this is just a confidence skill

1695
01:01:53,494 --> 01:01:54,554
in general

1696
01:01:55,335 --> 01:01:56,315
is to

1697
01:01:56,614 --> 01:01:59,034
try to have posture and speak

1698
01:01:59,440 --> 01:01:59,940
confidently.

1699
01:02:00,559 --> 01:02:02,340
So when you're talking with somebody,

1700
01:02:02,719 --> 01:02:05,539
look them in the eye. Use your big

1701
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:08,640
loud voice so that everybody in earshot who

1702
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,260
needs to hear, if it's a classroom,

1703
01:02:11,039 --> 01:02:13,635
can hear you. These are things that seem

1704
01:02:13,635 --> 01:02:15,635
little posture now. And can I know? Right?

1705
01:02:15,635 --> 01:02:17,494
We gotta put our shoulders back.

1706
01:02:18,035 --> 01:02:20,035
That seem little at the time and can

1707
01:02:20,035 --> 01:02:21,815
even seem sort of funny if you're

1708
01:02:22,355 --> 01:02:24,914
posturing like you're confident when you don't feel

1709
01:02:24,914 --> 01:02:27,699
it. But the more you do that, actually,

1710
01:02:27,699 --> 01:02:30,519
you start to feel what you've embodied.

1711
01:02:31,139 --> 01:02:33,940
And so project the confidence, I think, until

1712
01:02:33,940 --> 01:02:36,900
you feel it. And Yeah. Don't stop asking

1713
01:02:36,900 --> 01:02:39,319
questions and don't stop drawing.

1714
01:02:39,699 --> 01:02:41,074
Let this creativity

1715
01:02:41,534 --> 01:02:42,514
and this curiosity

1716
01:02:43,295 --> 01:02:45,394
come into math. Let it come into

1717
01:02:46,255 --> 01:02:48,494
everything because it's Yeah. Only gonna make things

1718
01:02:48,494 --> 01:02:48,994
better.

1719
01:02:49,614 --> 01:02:50,114
Yeah.

1720
01:02:50,414 --> 01:02:51,315
These are great.

1721
01:02:51,775 --> 01:02:53,260
I think it's 6, but that's okay. We

1722
01:02:53,260 --> 01:02:55,340
we also decompose. We also de combine a

1723
01:02:55,340 --> 01:02:56,940
couple. Well, I think I think I think

1724
01:02:56,940 --> 01:02:59,660
you spoke of posture and speaking confidently as,

1725
01:02:59,660 --> 01:03:01,740
like, projecting confidence, which I think is one

1726
01:03:01,740 --> 01:03:03,500
I got Yeah. There we go. 2. No.

1727
01:03:03,500 --> 01:03:05,519
It's just So, like, so it's so funny.

1728
01:03:06,380 --> 01:03:09,144
Yeah. It's it's interesting. So, again, like, the

1729
01:03:09,144 --> 01:03:11,085
connections I make, maybe not always,

1730
01:03:11,784 --> 01:03:14,184
totally useful. But when you talked about the

1731
01:03:14,184 --> 01:03:16,585
posture and speaking confidently, that was one thing

1732
01:03:16,585 --> 01:03:17,324
that really,

1733
01:03:18,585 --> 01:03:19,644
touched me. So

1734
01:03:20,019 --> 01:03:20,680
I was,

1735
01:03:21,140 --> 01:03:23,780
there's there's this great superintendent in in Southern

1736
01:03:23,780 --> 01:03:24,280
California,

1737
01:03:25,619 --> 01:03:28,200
who came as an immigrant child from Mexico

1738
01:03:28,420 --> 01:03:30,340
way back in, I think well, he wouldn't

1739
01:03:30,340 --> 01:03:33,195
appreciate me saying way back, but back in,

1740
01:03:33,195 --> 01:03:35,795
like, the late fifties or so or early

1741
01:03:35,795 --> 01:03:37,494
sixties. I can't remember what it was.

1742
01:03:37,875 --> 01:03:39,235
And so the first time he went to

1743
01:03:39,235 --> 01:03:41,235
school, you know, he put on his little

1744
01:03:41,235 --> 01:03:43,315
jacket and tie, and, like, he had a

1745
01:03:43,315 --> 01:03:45,655
briefcase, and he's going to school in Southern

1746
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:46,800
California. And,

1747
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:48,340
and when he,

1748
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,039
when he was called upon to say an

1749
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:52,800
answer or give a guess, he stood up

1750
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:54,640
Put up. Next to his chair and put

1751
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,820
his finger up and said the thing. And

1752
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,894
that's what I kinda think of, and I

1753
01:03:58,894 --> 01:04:00,574
and I see this man as somebody who

1754
01:04:01,375 --> 01:04:03,155
he just didn't have any way of understanding,

1755
01:04:03,215 --> 01:04:05,554
but he was exuding that kind of,

1756
01:04:06,414 --> 01:04:07,715
confidence. I wanna,

1757
01:04:09,135 --> 01:04:10,355
I actually wanna link

1758
01:04:10,655 --> 01:04:12,355
some of what you said

1759
01:04:12,894 --> 01:04:13,394
to

1760
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:16,390
a lot of just great equity practices and

1761
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:19,590
some great culturally responsive practices that I've had

1762
01:04:19,590 --> 01:04:22,730
a chat chance to learn. So we know

1763
01:04:22,869 --> 01:04:23,369
that

1764
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:26,309
making mistakes and again, I look at Gen

1765
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:28,390
z, and they're amazing in so many ways.

1766
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:30,585
But because their lives have been so under

1767
01:04:30,585 --> 01:04:33,625
the microscope scope with social media, they've they

1768
01:04:33,625 --> 01:04:36,344
they get very sensitive about making mistakes and

1769
01:04:36,344 --> 01:04:38,505
not doing something perfect the first time. And

1770
01:04:38,505 --> 01:04:39,244
so I think

1771
01:04:39,704 --> 01:04:42,125
making that the norm that that your mistakes

1772
01:04:42,184 --> 01:04:44,219
are things that are that not only are

1773
01:04:44,219 --> 01:04:45,760
going to happen, but are necessary,

1774
01:04:46,619 --> 01:04:49,039
in order to grow your Especially in math.

1775
01:04:49,260 --> 01:04:51,179
There Especially in math. A lot of wrong

1776
01:04:51,179 --> 01:04:53,280
answers over time. Yeah. Absolutely.

1777
01:04:53,579 --> 01:04:56,154
And so, like, really embracing that. I think

1778
01:04:56,154 --> 01:04:58,714
working in a community is so important. I

1779
01:04:58,714 --> 01:05:00,074
mean, I think we have we have a

1780
01:05:00,074 --> 01:05:01,295
society that tends

1781
01:05:01,835 --> 01:05:03,214
to overly privilege independence

1782
01:05:03,594 --> 01:05:05,775
to the point where we aren't actually learning

1783
01:05:05,835 --> 01:05:06,734
from each other.

1784
01:05:07,434 --> 01:05:09,434
Asking questions, I mean, this is what's really

1785
01:05:09,434 --> 01:05:11,690
interesting because we're talking about the amazing

1786
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:13,530
low tech opportunities

1787
01:05:14,230 --> 01:05:16,789
of, you know, asking questions. What we're also

1788
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:19,429
finding, and I've done 2 separate episodes on

1789
01:05:19,429 --> 01:05:20,489
generative AI,

1790
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:22,710
with experts in how to do this, and

1791
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:24,869
they're both telling me the same thing. Really

1792
01:05:24,869 --> 01:05:25,369
important.

1793
01:05:25,824 --> 01:05:27,844
Exactly. They're saying it like,

1794
01:05:28,144 --> 01:05:30,224
you you have to be able to know

1795
01:05:30,224 --> 01:05:32,625
what you are asking in order to get

1796
01:05:32,625 --> 01:05:34,864
what you need, and that's something that's both

1797
01:05:34,864 --> 01:05:36,485
high-tech. Even our technology

1798
01:05:37,344 --> 01:05:39,969
can't respond to things if we're not clear

1799
01:05:39,969 --> 01:05:41,730
about what it is that we need. And

1800
01:05:41,730 --> 01:05:44,549
I love this notion of representing things visually

1801
01:05:44,769 --> 01:05:47,489
and and not to stop drawing. I recently

1802
01:05:47,489 --> 01:05:50,389
started doing art myself after

1803
01:05:50,994 --> 01:05:52,835
decades of saying I'm not an artist. I'm

1804
01:05:52,835 --> 01:05:55,155
not creative. I can't draw. And then I

1805
01:05:55,394 --> 01:05:57,674
story you told yourself. That's the, like Yeah.

1806
01:05:57,875 --> 01:05:59,635
Math doesn't work with girls. And I'm a

1807
01:05:59,635 --> 01:06:01,954
really good storyteller, and so that's why I

1808
01:06:01,954 --> 01:06:04,199
was that's why I believed for so long.

1809
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,519
These are great practices, and I think and

1810
01:06:06,519 --> 01:06:07,800
I think the other thing so I'm I'm,

1811
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:09,960
like, nerding out into an education space, and

1812
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,559
so may maybe this is useful to you.

1813
01:06:11,559 --> 01:06:13,719
Maybe it's not. But, you know, Lisa Delpit

1814
01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:15,739
in her book, Other People's Children,

1815
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,280
talks about how there is a culture of

1816
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,644
power around so many educational spaces. There's a

1817
01:06:21,644 --> 01:06:24,605
culture of power around traditional math, which tends

1818
01:06:24,605 --> 01:06:27,325
to be very much what we visualize when

1819
01:06:27,325 --> 01:06:28,785
we visualize math people,

1820
01:06:29,085 --> 01:06:30,305
and the prevalence

1821
01:06:30,765 --> 01:06:34,519
of of men working in these spaces and

1822
01:06:34,519 --> 01:06:37,160
fewer, like, women or even fewer people who

1823
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,480
are gender fluid or or gender non binary

1824
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:40,219
in these spaces.

1825
01:06:40,679 --> 01:06:43,400
And so what you are doing here is

1826
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,579
also saying, no. There is a language

1827
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,234
of power. There is a way that you

1828
01:06:48,234 --> 01:06:50,175
can learn to build your own power

1829
01:06:50,554 --> 01:06:53,534
and and use it to become really successful.

1830
01:06:54,875 --> 01:06:56,554
So so so you have my mind going

1831
01:06:56,554 --> 01:06:57,934
in a lot of really great directions.

1832
01:06:59,434 --> 01:06:59,934
So,

1833
01:07:00,715 --> 01:07:03,659
Paul Nussbaum or Naflik, thank you so much

1834
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,119
for joining the 2 Dope Teachers in a

1835
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:07,179
Mike podcast.

1836
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,099
Just really amazing to have this perspective, especially

1837
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,420
as we start the school year.

1838
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,199
What are the the ways that people can

1839
01:07:16,199 --> 01:07:17,420
connect with your work,

1840
01:07:17,824 --> 01:07:19,984
learn about the book, order the book, follow

1841
01:07:19,984 --> 01:07:22,324
what you're doing. How do people find you?

1842
01:07:22,384 --> 01:07:23,984
Yeah. So first off, thank you. This has

1843
01:07:23,984 --> 01:07:25,525
been a a super fun conversation.

1844
01:07:25,824 --> 01:07:27,525
I I learned a lot as well.

1845
01:07:28,304 --> 01:07:29,984
So anyone wanting to learn more can go

1846
01:07:29,984 --> 01:07:32,884
to daphne draws data dot com.

1847
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:34,619
There you'll find

1848
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:36,619
all the ways to get to the book.

1849
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:40,199
You will find activities for kids, support for

1850
01:07:40,199 --> 01:07:42,760
parents. So, whether as a parent you find

1851
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,480
yourself loving or loathing data, we have things

1852
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:46,219
for you,

1853
01:07:46,565 --> 01:07:48,905
as well as resources for educators,

1854
01:07:50,085 --> 01:07:52,244
tied at Daphne to all the common core

1855
01:07:52,244 --> 01:07:53,945
language and and all of that.

1856
01:07:55,365 --> 01:07:57,765
You if anyone listening is interested in the

1857
01:07:57,765 --> 01:07:59,765
storytelling with data side of things, there's a

1858
01:07:59,765 --> 01:08:02,900
lot of information there at storytelling with data.com.

1859
01:08:04,159 --> 01:08:05,219
Yeah. Love that.

1860
01:08:05,519 --> 01:08:07,760
And the other thing that came to mind

1861
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,760
too is that a lot a lot of

1862
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,760
times, I think, as parents, we get really

1863
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,440
insecure when it comes to math with our

1864
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,554
kids. So this sounds like it's actually a

1865
01:08:15,554 --> 01:08:16,034
great,

1866
01:08:16,354 --> 01:08:16,935
a great

1867
01:08:17,475 --> 01:08:20,194
way of thinking for parents who want their

1868
01:08:20,194 --> 01:08:21,095
kids to

1869
01:08:21,635 --> 01:08:22,135
enjoy

1870
01:08:22,435 --> 01:08:23,814
their learning and to thrive.

1871
01:08:25,234 --> 01:08:26,295
So this is amazing.

1872
01:08:26,755 --> 01:08:28,500
So, folks, if you are new to the

1873
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:30,739
podcast, make sure that you are following us

1874
01:08:30,739 --> 01:08:31,719
on all platforms.

1875
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:34,520
We are everywhere you can get podcasts.

1876
01:08:35,380 --> 01:08:37,460
Find us on Instagram at 2 dopeteachers as

1877
01:08:37,460 --> 01:08:38,920
well as, twitter/x.

1878
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:41,015
X. We're on facebook.com/2

1879
01:08:41,954 --> 01:08:44,274
dopeteachers and on Mike. You can email us

1880
01:08:44,274 --> 01:08:46,694
with any questions or episode ideas, 2 dopeteachers@gmail.com.

1881
01:08:49,555 --> 01:08:52,614
And as always, if you believe in supporting

1882
01:08:52,755 --> 01:08:53,255
independent,

1883
01:08:54,010 --> 01:08:54,510
disruptive

1884
01:08:54,810 --> 01:08:57,069
media creation, head over to patreon.com/studopeteachers

1885
01:08:58,489 --> 01:09:00,510
where for as little as $5 a month,

1886
01:09:00,649 --> 01:09:02,729
you can help us bring this content to

1887
01:09:02,729 --> 01:09:04,429
you. Alright. So Cole, we have a way,

1888
01:09:04,810 --> 01:09:07,215
that we take out the show. I'll ramble

1889
01:09:07,215 --> 01:09:09,695
a little bit, like more than usual. And

1890
01:09:09,695 --> 01:09:10,914
then I will,

1891
01:09:11,375 --> 01:09:13,375
give a sign, and then we will say

1892
01:09:13,375 --> 01:09:14,515
STAY DOPE together.

1893
01:09:15,375 --> 01:09:15,875
So

1894
01:09:16,255 --> 01:09:19,635
for Paul Nussbaum, Naflick, author or

1895
01:09:20,029 --> 01:09:21,489
who stays drawing data,

1896
01:09:22,189 --> 01:09:24,930
for the problem solvers, for the creative people,

1897
01:09:25,069 --> 01:09:26,750
which is all of us. For those of

1898
01:09:26,750 --> 01:09:30,529
us who want to have joy and disruption

1899
01:09:30,909 --> 01:09:33,310
and engagement in our learning and in our

1900
01:09:33,310 --> 01:09:33,810
life,

1901
01:09:34,734 --> 01:09:36,675
I am Gerard Munoz,

1902
01:09:37,055 --> 01:09:40,354
and I we are here inviting you to

1903
01:09:40,574 --> 01:09:43,234
stay involved, stay focused, stay excited,

1904
01:09:43,614 --> 01:09:44,114
and

1905
01:09:44,414 --> 01:09:45,395
more than anything,

1906
01:09:46,175 --> 01:09:47,875
stay Stay dope. Dope.

1907
01:09:50,363 --> 01:09:51,103
Thank you.