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Did this solve the problem? Maybe this solved the problem.
I hope it solved the problem. Oh, I think it solved the problem.
Hey, what is going on? Two Dope Nation. What y'all doing?
Y'all chilling? I'm chilling 'cause it's like 25 degrees out right now.
It's 80 earlier in the week, and now it's like snowy and it's still snowing
and I'm just not ready for this. But that's okay.
Welcome back to two Dope Teachers, Anna, Mike. My name is Gerardo Munoz.
Uh, Kevin is in class, uh, which,
which we'll talk about in a future episode.
It's very exciting for Kevin Moving into building leadership. Um,
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Follow us on social media at two Dope Teachers on Instagram and
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shout out to our patrons who stay true, who stay with us,
who continue to support this work even when it is inconsistent.
Um, I'm here today, uh,
got an episode for you that goes way back to the spring,
and I want to talk a little bit about why it's like this.
So without getting into too much of it, go over my sub. If you wanna, um,
read a little bit more about this. Um,
I will be putting a piece up to sort of talk about how these systems aren't
built for our mental health and, um,
particularly in, in a system like the one that I work in in education.
Um, but what you need to know, uh,
is that this episode is long overdue,
so far overdue.
You know how when you have a library book that's so overdue that they just
charge you for, and they're like, you know what? It's just yours.
Just keep it and give us a little bit of money for it. I kind of feel like, um,
my guest would've been fully, um,
it would've been fully reasonable for him to be like, bro,
just don't even like, put it out. It's fine. It's fine. I'm not mad at you. Um,
but those of you who know me well know that in the, in the summer,
my mental health kind of cratered, um, had something of,
of an identity reckoning. And I'm still working through it. Like I think,
I think that this is not something that is ever finished. Um,
but I think it's important to sort of recognize, uh,
the points that require us to show up differently, uh,
whether it's for ourselves, whether it's for our families,
whether it's for our communities. So, got a lot of thinking to do around that.
But, um, but it's a lot to say that,
um,
this episode was supposed to come out during, um,
Asian American Pacific Islander, native Hawaiian,
south Asian Heritage Month, um, which was in May,
which was a long time ago. , you know, the,
the, the first thing is that
like many of you who have been following us on two dope teachers and
a mic for a while,
I have ambivalence about heritage and awareness months. Um,
I think it's great that we have on
some level, however, superficial in some cases,
and it's not the same in every case, but on some level,
we have decided that we need to acknowledge, um, difference, uh,
folks who have traditionally been locked out of our,
uh, national view, uh,
folks who have been barred from entering the mainstream when it comes to
history, culture, politics, um, just humanity.
And so I think it's kind of cool. Um, on the other hand,
this comes up almost every heritage month where we'll sort of do some stuff.
I did a bunch of stuff at work for, uh, Latina Heritage Month, um,
and it was cool. People got excited and then we just kind of moved on. And, um,
and it's like the world around us as society around us is just not
built to
actually celebrate all people all year round. It's, it's wild, but it's true.
So I always have a choice every year, which is,
do I play into what short attention span driven capitalism wants
me to play into? Hey, it's may talk about AAPI folks. And of course,
over the course of this, um, of this series,
I learned that AAPI still is not inclusive, um,
as I learned from some guests that you will also hear interviews, um, from soon,
I hope. Um,
and so knowing that people's, you know,
attention span might sort of be on this a little bit
when we're in May or when we're in June for Pride or when we
are in September, October, November is coming, it's right around the corner,
um, when ostensibly will uplift indigenous communities.
But just for that month, right?
Because people look at you weird if you start doing this stuff outside of the
lane that's been defined on your, um,
on your iPhone calendar, right?
Or do I seize an opportunity
and shine light on folks who don't get to be in the light very often?
And I tend to lean towards the latter.
Like I think it's just kinda like,
it's kinda like we don't tell these stories enough,
and even if we tell these stories a little bit, it's more than zero,
which is such a low bar. Um, there's also a,
an element where it's just hard to plan ahead and, and, you know,
I I say this with all earnest and not trying to gaslight anyone, but, you know,
if I was able to, to just produce, um,
the great content here at Two Dope Productions, um, if I,
if that was my job, um,
it would be much easier to map things out and just kind of be ready when the
time comes.
Too often I find myself doing this work within the
few weeks that we may have,
and then life happens and it makes it really difficult.
So maybe it's just a little bit like that. But
what I do regret is that in a time when our short Attention Span society,
we're maybe paying closer attention to folks in the
A-A-N-H-S-A-P-I community that I didn't platform
stories like the one I'm about to bring you. Um,
there are other stories that got recorded and captured.
People shared their experiences,
both painful and lighthearted and just real
about identity struggles in education. Um,
and I didn't platform those at a time when maybe the most ears were
receptive to these stories.
There are also three other teachers I just never interviewed. Like,
they set time aside, they processed it, they tried to, you know,
find the best way to tell the story,
and then ultimately I just didn't give them a way to tell the story.
So I do have a lot of regrets around this. Um,
but I think what I've landed on is that a
light story is better than no story.
And maybe it will be beneficial for us to start actually trying to
see folks from marginalized and minoritized communities, uh,
especially among our teaching corps, um,
outside of the month that we've carved out for them as a society that someone's
carved out for them as a society. So I think, I think that's kind of where I,
I am right now, and I welcome your feedback. Um, you know,
I have one more interview from, um,
may that I wanna roll out, um, because I just think it's a valuable, um,
interview here to hear. Because here's the thing, y'all,
just because we stop paying attention to Asian American Pacific Islander,
native Hawaiian South Asian folks, doesn't mean that they stop existing.
It's not like,
it's not like Netflix where we just pause it and then we turn off the tv and
when we come back the following May, there they are again. And,
and it just rolls. Like I'm at Chicano every day of my life. And, uh,
whether it's Hispanic Heritage Month, whether it's Cin de Mayo,
I'm a Chicano before those times, during those times, and after those times.
And, and, and I want to extend the same realness to our people. So,
um, will we do a big campaign, um, going forward? Maybe,
um, it has to do with capacity,
but one commitment I have is just to make sure that we're telling these stories
all the time and not just when capitalism tells us to.
So it is with incredible excitement. Um,
I'm even smiling as I think about this that I bring you, uh,
my guy John, um, who I call Sunshine. Um,
so John Arthur, uh, is the 2021 Utah Teacher of the Year,
one of the Four Corners Teachers of the Year that I'm friends with.
Shout out Elisa, shout out Sarah. Um, and then me and John,
uh, we have a funny picture of the four of us that maybe I'll include with this
episode, um, at Space Camp of all things,
there's so much about my teacher of the year year that I just haven't really
reflected on and shared some of it's just kind of funny,
including Space Camp. Um,
I call John Sunshine because first of all, he,
he brightens any room that he walks into. And second,
he just reminds me so much of Ronnie Bass from re remember the Titans.
He's the guy that if you're like, Hey man, um, I feel bad about X,
Y, and Z. And he's like, it's cool man. It's cool. He's got those vibes. Uh,
John not only was 2021 Col, uh, Colorado, that's me, uh,
2021 Utah Teacher of the Year.
He was a finalist for National Teacher of the Year, along with Maureen, uh,
Alejandro and Juliana. Um,
Juliana ultimately was selected to represent us, um, which was perfect.
Um, but I know that John made it difficult, um,
in the selection process because he's just such a wonderful, uh, ray of light.
Um, John identifies as Korean American. Um,
he's of mixed nationality and mixed ethnicity. Um,
but he is a proud Korean American person. Uh, over the last couple years,
especially, you may have seen him in a bunch of different social media spaces,
especially, um,
advocating for the dignity of teachers through his work around teacher
salaries and teacher compensation and valuing teachers.
He's also advocated strongly for students from
minoritized and marginalized communities as well as their parents. Um,
particularly standing up for kids whose stories are just
not reflected. Kids of color,
kids from the LGBTQIA plus community, um,
kids who are neurodivergent, um, John advocates for all of them. Uh,
John is also this just lovely human that whenever I need a smile,
like I try to reach out to him. And he always makes time. Uh,
you may remember him from back in May. Um,
he guest hosted our episode with 2022 Hawaii Teacher of the Year,
Whitney Aki, who is also a national finalist for 22. And,
um, it was just a great conversation. So, um,
there's gonna be a little bit of rust and a little bit of dust on this episode,
a little bit rusty, dusty. Um, but I just ask you to listen to what he says,
particularly in terms of his own life experiences,
as well as his thoughts around, um,
disaggregating AAPI and HSA data,
uh, so that we have a better sense of what our Asian
neighbors are facing in all the complexity and all the diversity. Um,
so please sit back,
enjoy this conversation between me and John Arthur on two Dope Teachers
and a Mic.
AO is going on, two Dope Nation.
Welcome back to two Dope Teachers and a mic.
My name is Gerardo Munoz and I'm flying solo with you today because
as it turns out,
Kevin has a job that he is at currently.
Um, thanks for joining us.
If you are listening to the show for the first time ever where you been at,
it's been seven years, we've been out here for seven years,
and we just dunno why you're just joining us. But if we are, if you are,
we are so happy to have you. Um,
you can follow us on social media at Two Dope Teachers on Instagram and Twitter.
You can find us on Facebook, facebook.com/two Dope Teachers and a mic.
And if you really believe in supporting Black and Brown produced digital media
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Get out there for as little as $5 a month at the $15 a month level,
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that marks you as an official member of the two Dope Nation designed by
Youth Street Artist Sham out here in Colorado. Well, folks,
I am really excited. This has been a long time coming, wouldn't you say?
Oh, yeah.
It's been a long time.
Coming. We've tried to make this happen a couple of times. We.
Have, we've tried to make this happen and then other things happen. But folks,
I just wanna take a second and just acknowledge the presence of
my guy, my homeboy, the guy who lights up my life.
And so that's why I call him Sunshine 2021,
Utah Teacher of the Year and National Teacher of the Year finalist John Arthur.
John, what's good.
Gerardo? I'm living my dream man.
I can't believe I'm finally a guest on this illustrious program. It's amazing.
Illustrious is is a good name. So someone called us a Notorious the other day.
I'm like, wait, what? Notorious, what do we do? Like,
how are we known like that? You know.
Man.
I have to tell you that, you know, so we've done in-person, uh,
interviews and we've done virtual interviews.
You might be the first virtual interview that is in our actual time zone,
.
Let's go, right? Yeah. We're , Utah, Colorado.
Yeah. And do you ever feel, do you ever feel erased or ignored by the,
so this is happening at seven o'clock eastern central and Pacific time.
Mm-Hmm. . Where is, where's the mountain time zone, y'all? Mm-Hmm.
. Where's the mountain time?
Yeah. No, we're, we're that middle child. We are, you know, they'll,
they'll just adapt to whatever the east coast of the West coast needs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a hundred percent. And I think, um, definitely. And it,
and it really works poorly with my Gen X identity,
where I already feel neglected and invisible . And so now I'm here,
and now you won't even acknowledge the timeline that I live on. Um,
I wanna name that I am working in, um, the,
on the top floor of the district admin building where I work.
You can kind of see the buildings out there. Oh, wow. View, ah, ooh,
look at that. Uh, it's a pretty cool view. This is the fourteener.
This is a famous fourteener. Um,
and so every now and then there's like some drama down there and, uh,
it's pretty wild. See, I on.
The top floor of Meadow Ark Elementary, and, uh, and from here, I,
I can watch the playground and I'll see something going down and it's on the
other side of the playground. It's like, oh my gosh,
do I run down there and then book it across the playground to Trent?
And is it, are there any adults out? Oh.
Man, this is why you were a national, this is why you were a national finalist.
And I wasn't like, I'd be like, uh, I can't get there. That's too far. .
Oh, well, hopefully somebody's on duty. .
I didn't say I make it every time, but I, I, I'll I'll think about it.
Yeah. But it said, you think about it. Oh, okay. All right. Mm-Hmm.
all.
No, I don't, I go, I go more often than I don't, honestly, . Okay.
Because it's, it's kind of the most exciting part of my day, you.
Know? Is your principal listening? Is that what's going on right now? No.
I mean, no, but being with the kids is super cool. Like, yeah. I've,
I never understood,
even at the middle and high school level where sometimes you honestly really
just need a break from sarcasm, , like, um, but I never understood,
not like just being so resistant to like doing lunch studio once a week. Like,
yeah, I, I know my union buddies are gonna cancel me right now, but it's like,
I do like to kick it with the kids in the cafeteria.
We used to have domino tournaments, like we were having soccer tournaments.
It was, it was fun. And I imagine with the young ones that you work with, um,
even more fun.
Yeah. I play, I play at recess every single day.
My wife told me about this study once with, um, women who were working in, uh,
they were like, room service or not room service, I apologize. They were,
they were cleaning up the rooms and hotels. It's,
it's the end of the day on Thursday. I cannot remember the name for that. What,
what's that job called? Where the, the.
Um, uh.
Anyways.
Housekeeping.
Housekeeping. Thank you so much. Housekeeping. There are these two groups,
house scary. They're who are working in housekeeping. And one group in this,
in this study, they, they were just doing their job. Yeah. And this other group,
they were told that by doing their job,
they were exercising that this was like physical fitness for them.
And then they looked at the health outcomes for these two different groups.
And the ones who were told that this was good for their health,
that they were exercising by doing their job as housekeepers actually had better
health outcomes there. Their, uh, blood pressure went down, their,
their cardiovascular, uh, rates went up. They, they, they lost weight.
They were in better shape.
And so that's what I try to look at recess as not a time where I have to go out
and be on duty. It's a time where I, as an adult get to go out and play.
I get a little bit of cardio. I play basketball or soccer most days.
I love playing tag. I love, uh, Flo's lava tag, uh,
where you can't touch the ground because a lot of these kids don't have
a ton of upper body strength. And so, no, that's right.
They can't catch you if you're like in the middle of the, the, the monkey bars.
So they, they try to swing out you like, I can't make it exactly.
Too much time on the phone. Let's go. That's.
Right. Exactly. You gotta work on that upper body strength. Yeah. No, I,
I really like that, that like, and there,
there were actually times where I was like, okay,
I can either just sit here during my lunch,
or I can take a quick walk and close my rings and like that kind of thing.
So, I mean, I think in a very real way, that's, and I,
and I love the thought of like,
what if more teachers just thought of recess as being recess for all of us?
And so I'm not just out here watching the kids and making sure they don't,
you know, doing anything mean or unsafe or dangerous.
I'm also out here like getting the benefits that they're getting. I.
Love that. Yeah. Exactly, man. I'm getting paid to play.
And when you play with the kids that you know,
are typically gonna make your life harder, uh,
because they come in and they've got too much energy,
you get the chance to run 'em around, wear 'em out a little bit.
And if kids get into trouble while they're out at recess,
it's hard to get in trouble when you're playing with teacher. You know? This is.
True.
Relationships. I'm all about it. It's a beautiful place.
I'm, um, that's, yeah. Absolutely. I feel,
I feel like this is a really good segue into the first question. .
Mm-Hmm. . Um, so one of the things, and so John,
you and I have known each other almost two years now. Mm-Hmm. , um,
in person. I think we met in person for the first time at Space Camp. Yeah.
Yeah. In, uh, Huntsville, Alabama, which is lovely. At the end of July,
let me tell you, , it's, uh, not humid or uncomfortable at all. Mm-Hmm.
. Yeah. It was, I I was a little juicy those days. Mm-Hmm.
. Mm-Hmm. . It was a little crazy. Um,
but one of the things that I think really came clear to me,
'cause you just don't get a good sense of people on Zoom sometimes, right? Sure.
And that we did all of our induction on Zoom. Um,
that inner child is alive and kicking in you. Yes, sir.
And so this question may, I don't know,
maybe you don't have to think that deeply about it, but, you know, tell,
tell me about like Little John, not the rapper. Mm-Hmm. . Um, but,
but you Little sunshine. And by the way, okay,
so I've called you Sunshine a couple of times on this show. Um,
so those of you who listen to the podcast, but don't know John, um,
and if you don't know John, go back and listen to our episode. He, uh,
subbed for Kevin when we interviewed, uh, 2022 Hawaii Teacher of the Year,
Whitney Aki, uh, national finalist that year. And you get a,
get a perspective on John there. But John, John,
your energy is just like Ronnie Bass from the,
remember the Titans movie. Like, he's just, he's wired a little bit differently.
He's super chill, super loving, super pleasant. Like dude doesn't get mad.
Um, but knows his stuff. And talented is all get out.
So I started calling John Sunshine. Uh,
I was laughing with you the other day about how sometimes I can't find your name
in my phone 'cause I'm looking for John.
And it's literally in there at Sunshine. Um, so, so tell me, tell me about the,
the, uh, gimme a portrait of the artist educator as a young man.
You got it. And, uh, I'll tell you, you are way too kind of me brother .
Like, I, I have, I have rough days. I was.
Telling you, I'm not that kind of a person. You should ask people. I,
I'm not like a super nice person. So , you know,
I just wanna put that in perspective. Go ahead. No, I.
Appreciate that. No, I, uh, I am John Arthur, and when I was a child,
I was very shy. My, my father was in the military.
My mother was a,
a Korean shopkeeper in a small village called Toko Ri by the,
the Militarized Zone in, in South Korea.
My father was a soldier stationed there. They, they met,
they fell in love and came here. And my childhood,
I, I spent bouncing around from one army base to the next. Yeah.
And as I did that, I had a hard time opening up, making friends.
And so for a long time, I just, I just kind of kept to myself. I,
I had friends. I was, you know, I was, I wasn't like antisocial,
but as I, as I grew up, I started to open up a little bit more.
We stayed here in Utah, moved when I was eight. Okay. This became home.
And once it became home, I was able to start opening up to people. Okay.
And I was always a pretty good student in school. But yeah.
When I got to my junior year of high school,
my grandmother who had lived with us and was suffering from Alzheimer's,
passed away.
And while my family took her back home to Virginia to, to bury her,
I, I told them I can't go. I can't go to my grandmother's funeral. I was,
I was too messed up over it, honestly. Yeah.
But I just told 'em I have to stay here and go to school. Yeah. And so I,
I continued to go to class,
and while my parents and my sister were gone burying my grandmother,
my house got broken into two nights in a row by the same guy. And we tussled,
there's a, there's a real police support about, for real. Oh yeah. Absolutely.
Wow. You know, I, uh,
I I was already emotionally upset 'cause my grandmother Yeah. Had passed.
Now there's this person trying to come into my home,
and I should have left after the first night. But I,
I thought there's no way he would ever come back.
And he came back the next night. And that's amazing. And so we, you know,
I had this,
this horrible experience and it made me question the purpose of
life. I had this existential crisis when I was 16 years old. Okay.
And I, I, I looked at myself. I said, I,
I'm not bearing my grandmother because I had to go to class.
What's wrong with me? And so, like most teenagers, I,
I overreacted and went the other way. I, I stopped going to class entirely.
I I got straight Fs my third trimester of,
of high school or junior year. I,
I barely graduated high school and Wow. For years.
And you had always been a pretty good student, right?
I've always been a pretty good student. Yeah. Absolutely. I was,
I was in AP courses. I was, I had great report cards, but I,
I lost my sense of purpose and motivation.
And I stayed that way until my mid twenties. I, I had fun. I, I,
I was, I, I was never at risk of,
of really hurting myself or anything like that. But I,
I just didn't have any purpose in my life. And when I was about 25, 26,
I was reading. I loved to read. I'm an avid reader. Yeah. And I,
I read this quote by Frederick Douglass who said,
it is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.
And I realized in that moment, I, I had to read it a couple of times to myself,
it is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. Yeah.
I realized I was a broken man,
and for some reason it just clicked that I wanted to dedicate the rest of my
life to building strong children. So I went back to college. I finished my,
my bachelor's degree in English and a minor in history. And then, yeah,
I went to grad school to get my Master of arts in teaching. While I was there.
I also got a Master's of Education in special education.
'cause I wanted to be effective for all kids. And from the moment I,
I found my purpose, I, I became this,
this guy that you lovingly refer to as sunshine. I,
I became a guy who knew exactly what I was all about in life. Yeah. I, I,
I was dedicated. I was mission-driven. Yeah. And,
and now every day I live the dream.
I'm building strong children in a joyful place with the most beautiful
community. And I, I couldn't ask for anymore.
And now I'm also blessed with a wonderful wife,
two little girls who now are coming to my school as well. And it's like, yeah.
Well, I'm too blessed to be stressed.
Yeah. , you're not the first person who said that to me about, I,
I need to think about that a little bit. Mm-Hmm. . But I think, um,
well, thank, thank you for, um,
for just the vulnerability and the transparency.
I think that there's a bunch of layers to it, right? Like,
I mean, the first just being, just being csat men of color,
right? Mm-Hmm. . Absolutely. Like,
these aren't typically qualities that are celebrated or uplifted in our
communities to recognize one's own brokenness and
do something about it. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and on another level, it,
it's just, so this is why I love doing podcasting just in general and,
and hearing people's stories,
because I think it's easy to pigeonhole people into,
you know, oh, that's John. He's always happy, always in a good mood,
and always kind, and always patient and always spiritually level,
which is probably true. Um, but it, but it's like,
there's a story there. Mm-Hmm. . And there's,
there's things that you've experienced there. Yeah. Um, and,
and I love the idea that, that, you know,
I think it's hard to find answers to the,
why did you go into teaching question that we haven't heard a thousand times
before, right? Mm-Hmm. . Um,
but you saying that it was really like, well, if it's,
if it's harder to fix broken men,
then why don't we Mm-Hmm. , why don't we help build children up,
um, into the strongest versions of themselves. Um, you know,
you talked a little bit about the joy that you experience with your students.
What's one way that in Mr. Arthur's a captain's classroom, right? That's right.
Um, .
What's one way that you intentionally work to
build strong people?
Well, you just referenced my, my nickname here, captain. Um,
I'll tell you, it has nothing to do with Dead poet Society.
Dang it. I was hoping it would Captain.
Captain like everybody, our generation, because, you know.
That was, that was the first that that movie actually Mm-Hmm.
was the first thing that made me think that maybe teaching was a
thing I could do. You know.
It's, you know what? That's why I I was, I was studying English in,
in my undergrad program at the University of Utah.
A lot of it 'cause of that movie. 'cause I, I loved, I loved the written word.
I love poetry. And when I decided I wanted to be a teacher, I thought, man,
I wanna be like, you know, Robin Williams?
Like Mr. Keating. Be.
Like, Mr. Keating. Exactly. I want, I want kids standing on my, on their desks,
you know, .
As you get fired from your job. So.
Angry as I was getting fired and kicked outta the building. Right.
That's the dream right there. That's.
A dream right there.
So I, I thought that that was the direction I was gonna go. But then I,
I subbed before I began my grad program, uh, and I did not,
like, I don't know how you secondary teachers do it, but like, middle school,
high school, when I was seven, that was not my spot.
My sweet spot was sixth grade, fifth grade, upper elementary, because Okay,
you can spend all day with them. It's like the big littles.
It's the big littles, the big littles. And they're,
they're at the fork in the road.
They're at that moment in life where they're not deciding who they're gonna be
because that's, that's too big. They're just,
they're just trying to figure out who they are. And Yeah. I,
I was drawn to that immediately. And during my second year of teaching, I,
I had this group of girls who came up and they said, Mr. Arthur,
we want nicknames. Can we have nicknames in this class? ?
I I had never considered it before. I said, well, what are you thinking?
They're like, well, we, we, we love this show called Attack on Titan,
and it's this.
Jeff mga.
Yeah. And I've never seen that. I had no idea what they were talking about.
And they said, it's classic.
Yeah.
We're gonna call her Annie, and we're gonna call her Ackerman and her Sasha,
and we wanna call you captain. I said, why? And they said, well,
there's this character named Captain Levi on the show, and, uh,
and we wanna name you after him. And I, I took a leap of faith that I, I,
in hindsight, probably shouldn't. 'cause for all I knew, this guy was like a,
could have been a psychopath. He could have been a murderer.
could have been insane. But I said, okay, yeah, call me Captain.
And once they had nicknames and started calling me captain,
the other kids were like, why are we calling you captain? The girls explained,
they said, well, we want nicknames too. And course, in that second class,
I ended up with a kid named Beef Shadow Boss.
Crispy a lot of Food Ones Jerky. Yeah. . And, uh, and.
These were outside of Attack on Titan Nicknames was.
These were outside attack on, on Titan nicknames. Exactly. .
It was only like, it was only last year that I finally watched Attack on Titan.
'cause season one's on Netflix now, and it's the most violent, gory.
No, it's wild. Attack on Titan is wild.
It's so wild. But the, the captain character is cool. I like him. He's dope.
He's super cool. Uh, but.
I'm really happy that I know that because, you know, my,
my daughter has indoctrinated me into, um, into anime and into,
oh my gosh. You know, those things. And it is so good.
Anime's. Yeah, it's good. Phenomenal.
And it's this cross-cutting cultural piece. Yeah. All my students,
whether they're African, Southeast Asian, la Latino,
Latinx, uh, Caucasian, Pacific Islander. Mm-Hmm. . They all,
they all love anime. They're all into it. And my,
my third class, when they, when they showed up at the start of the year,
I thought I was done with these nicknames, you know, , I, I,
I thought that was it. And I had a, a young man walk into my classroom.
He was the first student to show up on the first day of school.
And he walked in and said, Hey, Mr. Arthur,
I already know what my nickname's gonna be. . I said, what,
what's it gonna be? He said, I want everyone to call me Sprinkles.
And I was like, all right. Okay. Sprinkles. And,
and here in Utah, at that time,
we had this law in place that the nickname was the No promo Homo Law.
You couldn't talk about anything L-G-B-T-Q related.
You couldn't use the words gay or queer in your classroom. Wow.
And then they came up. If students asked you, you had to say, I,
I don't talk about that. I ain't got nothing to do with that.
And this kid walks in and says, I wanna be called Sprinkles. And he,
he was signaling to me very clearly that he was, um,
he was identifying in that community,
and he wanted to choose a name to represent himself in our classroom community
that would be reflective of that. Yeah. And I, I immediately in that moment,
had this epiphany. I said, this,
this nickname thing that just happened organically
on its own is now like, the best thing about my class.
And now it's now kids are coming in and.
They're, it's an institution.
Now. Their own identity in there. Yeah.
That's, that's so deep, man. Because Mm-Hmm. . Um, as,
as you kind of describe this, it reminds me of, um,
a piece that I read in my grad program. Mm-Hmm. . Um,
so I took a class on qualitative research, um, methodologies.
And this book that we read cover to cover, y'all need to pick it up.
It's expensive, but pick it up. Anyway. It's called Humanizing Research.
It's edited, edited by the Great Django Paris and Maisha Wynn.
And there's a chapter written by David, uh, Kirkland, who explores,
um, literacies among eighth grade black boys. Mm-Hmm. .
And he's a black male scholar himself. And, and he's looking at,
at hip hop as a cultural, so like, as, as you're talking,
I feel this hiphop undercurrent Mm-Hmm. Because we look at, um,
and you'll see audience where this segue lives in my brain. Um,
so when I think about hiphop, right? Mm-Hmm. ,
I think about Wu-Tang. Mm-Hmm. ,
I think about Grandmaster Flash and the Furious five mm-Hmm. .
Mm-Hmm. , I think about verbal fists of fury,
like these kinds of things.
And one thing that black and brown communities have always resonated with is,
um, martial arts culture. Mm-Hmm. . And this kind of, you know,
again, cuts across cultural difference. And, um, you know, Bruce Lee,
everybody knew who knew who Bruce Lee was. And so,
so what this kind of comes circular back to,
so he's doing this research study with these four black boys,
and he just calls the guys and they're sort of talking about how their
raps are not just expressions of their lives as
they are, but are their lives as if lived in a parallel way.
They're multiverse of lives. And you know,
at one point the boys are going back and forth about some,
some verses that one of them wrote, and one of them said, man,
you can't see what you wrote. That's not even the truth. And another boy says,
yeah, but I'm bigger than the truth.
.
I was like, that's incredible. But, you know, writing identities,
creating identities, and creating a way,
and it sounds like what this,
in the reason this is an institution in your classroom is that
kids get to write their identities every day. Exactly. Every day.
That's beautiful.
They get to write their identities, and they are part of, uh, a,
a broader identity.
My classroom has a big old sign on the wall that says ninth evermore.
And people love to ask me, are, are you gonna ask me? No.
Go ahead. I I was gonna, I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. Well, I.
Was gonna say, people love to ask, what, what is ninth evermore? And I,
my answer is, I, I can't tell you. My answer is,
in our classrooms, we teachers in our students, we get to co-create the worlds.
We wanna live in better worlds where the way that people talk to each other,
the way that we embrace each other, the way that we lift each other up is,
is more where it should be,
especially when compared to the real world, quote unquote out there. Wow.
We get to, we get to make these magic, it's like a refuge places together.
It's like a refuge. Exactly. It's a refuge.
And I can't tell you exactly why ours is called the Ninth Evermore. There's,
there's a story there that belongs to every student that comes through my class,
but my students in here know that they are the 10th class of the ninth evermore.
And in here, they don't have just names. They've got handles. They, you know,
as I look out, I see the desks, the empty desks of Jazzy and,
and Alistair and Smiles and Monarch and monochrome, and like,
just these, these amazing, not just, you know, students, but,
but content creators of these,
these young people who are not just trying to see how much they can consume in a
year, but how much they can create. Yeah. And they're,
they're connected to every student that I've had in my classroom back to my
first year. And the beautiful thing is they, you know, they're, I've,
I've taught all 10 years of my career, uh, here at Meadow Ark Elementary.
I started on fifth grade for three years.
I looped up to sixth grade with one class. And now I've had everybody's brother,
their sister, their cousin, this is, this is my community. I've,
I've put these deep roots in and my kids come back and they'll say, Hey, what's,
what's the ninth evermore up to now? Like, what are they creating? Well, oh,
you guys are making another music. Oh, you're making podcasts. That's dope. And,
and they, they come back to support. They come back to mentor.
They'll just come back and like tutor kids every once in a while, just randomly.
I have a couple of kids who would come in after school just to clean the room.
So it was nicer for the students this year, um, when you,
when you let kids be their best selves in a space,
they become so connected to it that it comes to represent something so much more
than just their classroom. Yeah. And we all have the opportunity to do that.
Yeah. That, that's really profound. I'm, I'm so glad you shared that,
because I think like every classroom is its own universe. Mm-Hmm. ,
right? Mm-Hmm. . Um, and, uh, what you're,
what you're explaining is really beautiful. I, I think that them,
this might be a, a good segue into kind of the next thing. So we talk, you know,
and just transparency for all of, um, my guests.
I think one of the things that we are trying to do here at Two Dope Productions
is to really be in tune with the moment and to really
try to uplift voices at the time that they're most likely to be heard.
And so we are attempting to amplify diverse
Asian Americans, native Hawaiian,
south Asian Pacific Islander voices of teachers who are, um,
who are out here doing this work, showing up as, as their, um, authentic selves.
Because, you know, you, you referenced Utah's version of the, uh,
the No promo homo the Don't Say Gay Mm-Hmm. , uh,
policy and legislation, which we're seeing in other states as well,
where we are actively discouraging teachers and children from
being themselves publicly. Mm-Hmm. . And so we,
we really wanna shine a spotlight on the fact that John Arthur is not
just a teacher, and he's not just a teacher of the year.
That he is a human being of Asian American descent. Mm-Hmm. .
And I think we wanna, you know, we wanna really highlight that. So,
thing I wanna have you share a little bit of is racialized experiences.
This is something that we hear
a lot from people from marginalized and minoritized communities,
people of color. Um, what kind of racialized experiences have,
have you had, um, whether it's in your childhood,
whether it's as a professional, as an adult,
and how do those impact the way you do this work?
Hmm. Well, in my childhood,
I was very proud to be Korean.
I was proud that my mother was Korean. I, I, I,
I took on that identity in a very strong way until I went to Korea
for an extended amount of time. Now, I went to school there in the summer.
We went on this vacation in July,
and we landed and we're hanging out with my cousins. And my mom said,
you're going to school? I said, it's July. No one goes to school. She said,
we do here in Korea.
You're like, this is terrible. You're like, I hate Korean.
Yeah, yeah. , it was like, what on Earth? But I was like, okay, cool.
I'll get to go hang out with kids. And I went,
and I had this very strange experience where I didn't
realize going into it, that anybody would have an issue with, with, uh,
a biracial child going into a Korean school as a half white,
half Korean young man. I,
I had no idea that anybody would have a problem with me.
I didn't understand this history of,
of animosity in Korea towards children who were born of American
gis, who had either, uh,
fallen in love or without consent, fathered children with, with local women. Oh,
interesting. And so when I went there,
I started learning these words that I didn't know. And I'd go back home and,
and tell my mom, and she's like, oh, don't, don't, don't listen. That. And I,
I'd ask a friend or a cousin, they'd say, oh, that means like mud blood. Like,
like, like, oh, wow. Like in the dirty, dirty blood. That's right. I'm like, oh,
no. And.
Half Breeded was always my, one of my favorites that I got.
Yeah. Half breeded. Exactly, man. And I know that, you know,
this is something that connects us. No matter what biracial identity you have,
there's always this like split between two worlds. And,
and that experience made me ashamed a bit of my Korean side. Never. Like,
yeah. I never completely rid it off, wrote it off. But I,
I definitely didn't identify myself as Korean American to people. I just say,
yeah, I'm John. Until, uh,
that that continued on into middle school.
And when I was in middle school, I got, I, I had an experience that,
that sent hate the other way where I was coming outta gym class. And these boys,
they were just looking for a, not, I'm sorry, not gym class, geography class.
Oh. And these boys were looking for a reason to just, just mess with me.
They were just trying to make me angry. Uh, 'cause they wanted to start a fight.
And I think I may have told you the story before they started calling me Chinky.
They're like, Hey, chink, man, let's, let's see, let's see what you got. Chin.
And I was like, man, what? I'm Korean like, first of all, we're,
you're not even geography class. Like, you don't even know. First.
Of all, we're literally talking about countries and where they are.
Second of all wrong.
Wrong. Like, come on, just bring the right hate if you're gonna do this. Like,
like, let's just do a wrong accurate with Yeah. Let's just be accurate with it.
So I, you know, I tried to walk away. They just kept pushing. They kept pushing.
They said, come on, man, let's see. I, I know you know karate.
I know you know karate. See that kung fu, let's go. I know you do. Wow.
And I was like, man, we don't all know karate. This is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah.
The problem is I do know karate. I know TaeKwonDo. I've been trained since,
I was gonna.
Say since I was three years old. I was gonna say, I was like, my, my father, uh,
my father.
Started teaching me when I was, when I was like young.
But in that fight, I,
I did not do anything that I could have done. I,
I had this conversation later on with, with a friend and like,
how come you didn't like throw any kicks?
How come you didn't fight back in like the way that you, you could.
And I got, I got busted up. My, my nose was bleeding. I was,
I was in kind of bad shape. And, uh,
and I said that I would rather take a beating than prove
them. Right. I, I just boxed with them because I didn't want to,
didn't want to, uh, confirm their, their stereotyping of me. Yeah.
Even though it was true, even though in Korea, TaeKwonDo is like the,
the national pastime. It's like baseball. Yeah. When I went to school there,
we did it in gym class. Like it was just part of the deal. Yeah.
I still didn't want these guys to think that they had me and
anybody from my community pegged.
I didn't want them to think that their ignorance was,
was gonna be verified or confirmed Yeah. By our, by our fight. So I, I,
I held back, I held back this beautiful part of my culture. I Yeah.
This beautiful part of my own personal history. And, and I,
I took a bloody nose, uh, just, just for the sake of, of proving them wrong.
Yeah.
And that's wild. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. I think, um, it's,
it's so interesting because I think Yeah.
You were a much stronger person than I would've been at that time. .
It was, it was.
I, I was proud of myself. Yeah. I, I don't know if I was right. I don't know if,
if I did the right thing, but IWII left that feeling just fine about it. So I,
I'd taken it. I'm as a kid.
One way or the other, I'm not your stereotype. Right. Yeah, exactly.
One way or the other. I'm not your stereotype.
And even if playing into it may
convince you that I'm tougher than you think I am. Yeah.
It's still playing into, you're still dictating the terms of my existence. Yeah.
Yeah. I feel that.
Yeah. I feel that there's, I mean, there's so many examples of,
of powerful ancestors who,
who took physical punishment as an act defiance,
and that was as close I've come to, to even, you know,
touching on Yeah. On that in any way in my life. But yeah. So I,
I had a complicated, uh, relationship with my own racial identity.
I'd felt hate from the Korean side. I felt hate from the white side. And, uh,
it wasn't until I was in my twenties that I started to embrace my,
my Korean identity. Yeah. And, um, really just, just, I,
I had so many amazing Asian friends here in Utah. Mm-Hmm. . And we,
we just hung out all the time. And, and, um, they, they helped,
they helped me find pride in,
in who I was and where I came from, and the people who informed,
uh, my background. And I, I, I'm forever grateful to the friends who,
who helped me find Asian pride in my life.
Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . That's awesome. As an adult,
have you experienced any of the kind of discrimination,
we know that looking at data from southern poverty to law center and some of the
other, uh, human and civil rights organizations, that over the last,
you know, three, four years,
there's been an uptick in anti-Asian hate crimes and hate violence. Right.
I see you got the, the sticker up, um, behind you. Um, Mm-Hmm. .
How,
how impacted have you felt by some of the anti-Asian
hate that's out there?
So,
one of the privileges of being biracial is that oftentimes when it comes
to, to hate Asian hate in particular, I'm not the ideal target,
you know? Mm-Hmm. I, I, uh, I have watched,
it's, it's kind of like, I don't know if you ever ,
I don't know if you ever saw the movie Highlander. This is like a super, like,
off the, off the cuff reference.
But Yeah. The, the one with Christopher Lambert.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's this part early in the movie where there,
he's in this battle and he's there with his clan,
and he doesn't realize why people are avoiding him,
but he just keeps like swinging and screaming at people, come fight me,
come fight me. But they're all just avoiding him. Hmm.
And that's how I've often felt in situations where I've wanted to say, Hey,
man, if you got a problem, come talk to me about it. Don't, don't, yeah.
Don't attack older women, don't attack our children. Children come talk to me.
But, but then people don't, and then I get frustrated about the fact that, uh,
they don't engage in the way that I want to. Not that I'm looking for conflict,
I'm looking for Right. Conversation,
and ideally in some beautiful world resolution. But as an,
as an educator, I've seen this in a couple ways. And also as a son of a,
of a Korean mother, you know,
the first time that we actually recorded anything together, it was,
it was here on the podcast and it was around that Asian hate. Yeah. And, and it,
it would not be, uh, it, like,
I can't help but note the fact that now we're talking on the show
and we just had the,
the shooting in Texas where half of the victims were Asians. Yep. And,
and it just, I, I hate the, the idea,
I'm gonna have to come back again sometime when there is not some tragic
violence against the Asian community on the news. Yeah. Because they,
the problem is, it's just,
it's happening frequently enough where that might be difficult. And that's a,
yeah. That's one of the tragic things about the situation we're living in. Yeah.
But as a teacher, absolutely. And as just a, as a man, when my mother,
my mother got sick with, with cancer, and I traveled out there, I,
I avoided going out there during covid as much as I could because I didn't want
to take the chance of catching it and giving it to her, uh,
in Washington DC where she lived. Yeah. But finally, I made the trip out there,
and I, I was with my mother walking around the, the,
the pool there at the National monument during the, the cherry blossoms. And,
and in the news,
older Asian women had been attacked violently. And in that moment,
walking with my mother,
I should have been focused on just loving her and the fact that she was ill and
who knew how many more opportunities we would have to be together. But instead,
I was scanning the crowd, looking for any threats,
anybody looking at my mom the wrong way. And, and
my dad ,
he and I had been having a conversation about what we needed to see more of
in, in our schools to combat Asian hate. And I said,
we need to see more of the accomplishments and contributions of Asian Americans
celebrated in our schools,
because it's hard to hate something when you understand it and you appreciate
it. And he said, well, what are you talking about? Like, what contributions? I,
I said, well, dad, look around.
We are literally walking amongst these cherry blossoms.
And I'd actually done a little report on this, this man named, uh, I'm,
I might brutalize his name, but Tini Jo Chichi,
who was this Japanese American, um, long time ago.
And he had worked out a deal with the mayor of Tokyo to bring these cherry
blossoms to Washington, dc.
So we were literally walking around this beautiful place in the legacy
contribution of this Japanese American.
And that same Japanese American was the scientist who first isolated
the, the hormone, uh, adrenaline. And, and,
and was able to use it as a medicine that we now call epinephrine.
And my daughter has a severe tree nut allergy.
And so I keep an EpiPen in my backpack at all times. And, and I,
I had to look at my dad and say, dad,
not only were we in this beautiful monument created by this, by this man,
but if your granddaughter ever got horribly ill,
she will be saved by the contribution of this incredible Asian American.
So the fact that we don't learn about that in our schools is exactly the
problem. We need to That's.
Amazing. We.
Need more about that because those contributions are there.
We just don't see them and acknowledge them enough.
Yeah. That, that's, that's so incredible.
'cause like what a way to just bring it home with an answer to the question.
And I think like, it, it turns into a circular conversation with some folks,
right? Mm-Hmm. , it turns into Mm-Hmm, , well,
what have they contributed? Well, I don't know,
because it was outlawed to learn about them.
And so it turns into this vicious cycle of where contributions
aren't seen because they're not taught and they're not shared. Mm-Hmm.
. Um, so yeah, so I mean that, and that's interesting. You know,
I think that's one way that, um, it's, it's a complexity, right.
Of being multiethnic and, um,
coming from different nationalities as a lot of, you know, um,
I have a white mother, hi, mom. My mom listens to the podcast . Um,
and although maybe she doesn't listen this far in, you know, she's like,
you're soul are long , um, you know, and, and a Mexican father.
And, you know, for so many years it was kind of like, well,
I I don't really belong in either world fully. Yeah.
And I don't feel more at home in one than the other. I mean, when,
when I'm in Mexico, more people can say my name and,
and that makes me pretty happy. But I think, you know, other than that,
but Gloria Alua who wrote, um,
borderlands the Lara, um,
argues that particularly with Chicanos, a lot of us,
a lot of us live in, um, in a borderlands. Like, so we,
we actually have this third nation in between the two nations that made us,
and that it's at Borderlands that a lot of us really do inhabit.
And so that's kind of what I think of. Um, so I feel.
Like, if you don't mind, yeah. I just,
I feel like one thing that I appreciate about you and that I, I've,
I've thought about this just in terms of us and our identities as
educators, but, but those of us who live in these borderlands, I, I don't know.
I don't know if it gives us an advantage when working with children who are
themselves in a borderland between, you know,
birth and adulthood kids who are trying to figure out who they are. But that,
that, that state of fluxx that we often find ourselves in, even as adults,
I feel like gives us some extra insight into
children, especially those who struggle. Man, I,
I don't know if I'd call it a superpower,
but I feel like it definitely contributes to, um.
It's like what we make it, right? Yeah. Like it's what we make it,
like I've seen people who have the insights to really
connect with kids Mm-Hmm. . And, and they don't use it in that way.
And that, that could be a consequence of socialization.
It could be the environment that you're working in or that you learned in. Like,
I think that it can be, um,
I think it's also that liminal space where if you look into this liminal space,
you're, you're either gonna see emptiness or possibility Mm-Hmm. ,
right? Mm-Hmm. , they look the same . Right. Um,
that uncertainty, that ambiguity. But, and I,
and I think often they, they feel the same. I think,
I think the disconnect that you describe towards your Korean
community Mm-Hmm. , you know,
is kind of something that I've struggled with a lot with my Mexican community.
Mm-Hmm. And I, I've had to sort of say that, well,
I am a part of the community because I'm literally a Mexican Mm-Hmm.
and yeah. I'm not a pure Mexican, but given Mm-Hmm.
the legacies of imperialism and colonialism.
Is there such a thing even? Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . Um, yeah, no, I,
I think that's right.
And I think that's such an interesting thing to think about,
about how we develop and, you know, folks, you remember our episode with Dr.
Erica Glover,
and she talks about really amplifying and uplifting student voice and creating
safe spaces for students really is about your own social
intelligence and your own emotional intelligence.
So if you have the emotional intelligence to be like, yo,
I'm a little bit of a shapeshifter, right?
I'm a little bit of an invisible man that can travel between these worlds, um,
that takes a certain level of emotional intelligence to make it a gift.
But it's not easy. Like, that's the thing. It's not an easy thing. Mm-Hmm.
honesty. Definitely. Um, we've got just a few minutes,
but I wanna run through a couple of quick things. Um, yeah.
So obviously we can't talk about John Arthur Sunshine without talking about
your trajectory over the last couple of years. Like, so it's a,
so you've been doing great work for a long time,
like so many people in our cohort Mm-Hmm.
of state teachers of the year. I mean, it's, it's,
it's years of impactful, profound work that,
that's been happening. Um, but, you know,
you had that a moment. You became Utah Teacher of the Year then. Mm-Hmm.
, you were announced as a national finalist,
and you got to hang out with this cool crew of, uh,
of finalists. Uh, shout out Maureen. Shout out Alejandro, my guy.
Shout out Juliana. Our, uh, national Teacher of the Year.
Y'all were just such a vibe.
And then following that, you know,
you definitely became more visible, um,
to those of us outside of your community. Mm-Hmm.
for your advocacy and your activism and your engagement
with, um, issues both in education as well as
with, um, just civil rights issues in general.
What's that last couple of years been like for you?
It's been such a gift. You know, we as,
as educators who are informed and who are
now also connected in this cohort nationally,
we have the opportunity to see behind the curtain a lot of times.
We, we recognize the problems and we also recognize ways that we can, we,
we know what it should look like and we know how we can impact that. And,
and so I've really tried to take this opportunity to make
things better for the students in Utah, my fellow educators.
And I've really latched onto to any cause
that empowers students and teachers, and whether that's students who have been,
uh, marginalized for their, their, uh,
racial identity for being in the L-G-B-T-Q community for,
for educators who have been bullied because of the work that they do to
support and uplift these children. Um,
I've tried to show up because how,
how rare is it that a teacher gets a spotlight shined upon them?
And that spotlight only lasts for so long,
so you have to use it to, to spread light as,
as far as you can to as many people as you can. And I've,
I've really taken that responsibility to heart.
I've watched so many of my friends use it so effectively,
and I'm just trying to do my best to do the same. There are, there are,
you know, for example, you,
you can't see it right now, but I, I have these pens in my pocket. And,
and going back to the, the no promo homo days, I,
I was told my first year of teaching,
I couldn't have a rainbow flag up in my classroom. And I am,
I am a just male, cisgender, straight guy. But I,
I very much view myself as an ally,
and I take that responsibility very seriously. And my first year of teaching,
I had a student who was queer,
and I wanted to show him in my classroom that he was safe and that I,
I loved and supported him. And my, my principal told me, don't, don't do it.
You're first year teacher, you'll be fired. You know, don't say the words,
don't put up any symbols. I said, well, what, what can I do?
And so I started one day just wearing pens in my pocket and I just,
I just switched it up. I have,
I have all these different colors and it's a little rainbow flag that I wear in
my pocket, and nobody can tell me what pens. That's amazing.
Pens not, why are you tripping ?
Yeah, exactly. I just got pens. I got a lot of grading to do. Yeah.
Like just chill . And, but my students saw it.
I read my papers 12 times.
Exactly. Everybody knew what it was, but, but no one could say a thing about it.
Now I have a spotlight in a platform that I don't have to like,
be as subversive. I can just come out and say exactly what is right and just,
and you know, I have two things I'm all about,
I'm about like humanizing and empowerment. Yeah.
And we talked a lot about humanizing. Yeah. We did in our cohort. You we did,
you taught me a lot about it. And, and that's all I want to do.
All I wanna do is humanize the,
the incredible people who make up a school community.
And I want to empower student and teacher voices. That's it. And,
and I'm gonna ride the spotlight as long as I can, man.
Yeah, no, it's beautiful. And I think that's, and and the fact that, you know,
I think I'm not gonna judge anybody's like,
path through this teacher the year experience, but I know that, um,
there are some who view being named a state teacher of the year as a,
as a finish line. Mm-Hmm. . And the year, um, that follows is,
is your tick ticker tape parades, and that's fine. Mm-Hmm. Like, I get it.
Like Yeah. And I know that different states frame it differently. Yeah. Um,
but one thing I admire about you,
and one thing I've tried to emulate with you is the,
is the idea that this is a starting line. Mm-Hmm. like, okay,
now Mm-Hmm. , now I have visibility.
There are people who know my work and who look to me to represent Mm-Hmm.
, in my case,
the 66,000 teachers in the state of Colorado for Mm-Hmm.
for that year of service.
What am I gonna do for our communities as the first Chicano identifying Colorado
state teacher of the year?
What am I gonna do to ensure that the people that I serve, um,
are, are seen and celebrated? And,
and I think that's something that those of you,
if you don't follow John on social media, you need to,
because this is,
I've never seen somebody be able to show this impact in such an
earnest way. Like I'm just out here doing the work. But look at,
look at what's happening in community and it's so cool. Thank you. To see. Yeah.
So, um, gonna get you outta here. Um, because,
'cause you've got things you need to do for your partner. Um, but before you go,
you know what's coming.
Yes, sir. It's.
Most important part of this. Like, all the other questions. Yeah. Stereotypes,
racism, trauma, whatever, like that, that's Mm-Hmm. . That's okay.
That's, that's a thing. That's the easy but the big thing. Yeah.
That's the easy stuff. The hard stuff. Oh my gosh. My friend is,
I'm looking for a pen. .
The hard stuff is top
five rappers or other performing artists that you listen to.
We love hip hop over here. Mm-Hmm. . We love the Hip Hop Nation.
Mm-Hmm. . Um,
we also know that when we're looking at globalizing this work,
that there's other music that resonates with people. John Sunshine. Arthur,
do you have your top five ready?
I do. Man, I, I had to think long and hard about this, and, uh, I bet you did.
And I, I didn't, I I had to frame it somewhere in my own mind.
I don't wanna overhype, but I Yep. I'm like you. We both write,
we're both writers. We like to, we'd like to work out our own thoughts on,
on paper with a pencil. And I, I, I, as a writer,
have been informed by,
by hip hop artists over time at different chapters of my life.
So my top five is not right. The top five, not my top favorites.
It's the ones that informed me. And, and when I write,
when I go on social media or anything else, these are the,
the artists who flavor that up.
I love it. Alright, so.
The.
The first, and is it a ranking? Is it a hierarchy? Or is it just the five? It's.
It might be chronological actually. Ooh, chronological.
I think it's chronological based on like,
where I was in my development as a, as a writer or as a voice. Okay.
And, and when they came in to, to, to influence that. So early on. Yeah.
My, my earliest like
hip hop influence that I could, that I can really pinpoint would be Lupe Fiasco.
Oh man. You know, Lupe doesn't show up enough on our list. Yeah.
Say speak on that.
Well, just,
just as a lyricist and as a storyteller and somebody who would drop just
insanely deep insights into the catchiest beats. Yeah.
I I I, he was the first musical artist where I,
I was reading the lyrics on paper.
Yeah.
To make sure that I was fully picking up everything. 'cause it was just,
it was just so.
Lupe Will Lu Lupe will tear your heart out with things. Mm-Hmm.
like you think about, put you on game. Mm-Hmm.
you think about Little Weapon. Mm-Hmm. You think about kick push,
like it's all got these other layers. And he, and he's also so sly. Like,
there's things that he's putting out there that you're kind of like,
is this you or is this kind of satire? All right. Mm-Hmm.
. Exactly.
So you got Lupe as your.
Earliest. You don't have to like, think too deeply. It's just so clear. Yeah.
It's just a, just a, just a shot to the heart. Um, yeah. At the same time, I,
and I'm, I'm gonna invoke the Eric Hale rule a little bit because.
Nice. Like.
I'm gonna have more than five artists. 'cause they,
they can't kind of came in tandem at that same time. That's right. I,
I got into the, the Flow bots and they're from Colorado.
I don't know if you know Flow bots.
I don't know them personally, but one of them, at least one of them,
maybe more than one actually graduated from the high school that my daughter
attends. Oh, yeah.
So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're,
they're socially conscious rappers and or just musicians in this band.
And they had the, the hit song handlebars. Yep.
And just the way that they didn't just hit it on the nose, they said like,
I can do anything. I'm strong. I'm powerful. That's right. I'm human being.
I'm uns Right. Unstoppable, because we all are. Yeah.
I can't ride my bike with no handlebars like that. Yeah.
That line rocked my world. So we've, that.
Song is.
And Flo Box came, is deep at the same time into my, into my riding life,
into my thinking life. Yeah. What were you saying there?
All right. Nothing. It's beautiful. Nothing.
So after that, after that, I,
I eventually found most deaf and Tali Kuali.
Yeah. Black Star Movement.
Black Star. I found them separately. And then I, then like a couple years later,
I found out that they did this collab and it just, ah, made me so happy.
. And that elevated my consciousness as well as my writing.
And then I was, because I was in the most deaf, I started watching, uh, old,
uh, deaf poetry jam videos that he.
Yes. Oh.
Man. And, and I came across the, the one where KRS one,
the, the Renegade poet teacher and Scholar got on there with Dougie Fresh. Yeah.
Oh, that was.
Great. And that opened me up to old school hip hop and just, you know, the,
all the classics. Yeah. So that, that, that was, that, that part of my journey.
Yep.
So, yep. Yep.
Yep. And then that part of my journey actually led me to, to, uh,
biggie and Okay. And I actually, I came into this one part of my life where I,
I'd found my purpose. I was feeling good, so on and so forth.
And I was constantly encouraging kids to, to be their best selves. And there,
you know, I cannot remember the name of the song, and I could, I could,
I can recite the lines, but they're, they're super inappropriate.
You would know the track, but, you know, it starts out with, when I die,
I wanna go to hell. 'cause I'm a, it ain't hard to tell,
like every other word is a cuss word. It ain't hard.
To tell.
I wouldn't share it with my students so bad because it's just so.
Right.
Just like I am the worst and I'm gonna say it over and over and over again.
And for some reason, that made me feel really good. Yeah. I just, and I would,
I would scream that in my car, and like you said, man, I am,
I'm a positive productive, like That's right. Excited about life kind of person.
But I am also flawed and I make all kinds of mistakes every day. And I just,
I just love the idea of just laying it down on the tracks and like,
this is why I am the worst and why my mom regrets,
like, not having abortion and everything. I was like, holy cow,
I've never heard anyone talk like that. Yeah. I've never heard anybody.
Say anything like, that's so interesting about like,
biggie's ability to write identity and to write pain was really powerful.
Mm-Hmm. , it makes me think of, actually,
this is where I think Jake Cole is such a, such an inheritor of that tradition.
Like absolutely. One of the things he says is, um, you know,
we've been, you know, blank's been playing against the odds,
but who am I to criticize how you played your cards? Doggy, like Mm-Hmm.
. We, you know, and it, so it just kind of gets into those things.
My, my favorite line from any Biggie song is from mm-Hmm. , um,
mo Money, mo Problems, Uhhuh when he says, man,
I know they'd rather see me die than to see me fly. You know? Right.
There's so many ways to interpret that. So creative. Right. Yeah. Well, listen,
this is great.
Yeah. No, thank you, man. No, go ahead. He, well,
he helped me understand what it does mean to actually humanize a person. Yeah.
To, to see them all the way through and to still appreciate and just
celebrate them. So that's something I appreciate about him,
and that's also something I, I appreciate about you.
Mm-Hmm. . You, you, oh, I let it out. I let it be out there. .
You're, you are both a, a renegade teacher, poet, and scholar,
but you're also a, a great, um,
you're great at helping others see themselves in new and more
interesting ways.
Oh, thank you, man. You know, um, you know,
folks like you have so many incredible, like layers to you.
I'm sitting here like, I've known you damn near, near two years,
and we have never talked about hip hop. What is up with that?
We need to get into that. The writing. I.
Got into the space camp a little bit.
No, we did. We did. We had a party. We didn't have a battle though. Like,
that's the thing. No, that would've been cool, but Yeah. Well, you know,
John Arthur Sunshine, thank you for bringing this light into my life right now.
Um, we're gonna go ahead and wrap things up. There's a,
there's a meeting about to happen and I know I need to clear out, but, um,
but listen, man, uh, we, we absolutely have to do this again and absolutely,
as you said, not attached to Mm-Hmm. , you know, some catastrophe.
That wasn't the intention. But as it turns out, of course not. This is,
this is like the world that we sometimes live in. Um, we need like a,
we need a round table of radical joy, bro. That's what we need to do is,
is like, just have one because the thing that they really wanna take from us,
it's not our books, it's not our classrooms,
it's not our education. They want to take our smiles.
And like my friend Kame said to me a year ago when I was really struggling with
my departure from the classroom, don't let, don't ever let them take a smile.
And that's, that's what they want to do.
They want to take our smiles and they end.
The most radical thing you can do is have audacious joy
in these moments. So for, uh Oh yeah. Also, how do people follow you?
Where do people find your work?
Absolutely. Ninth Evermore, as I said,
is the name of my classroom with the students.
So if you go on YouTube and can search up the Channel nine every,
you can see my student being brilliant. Look for me on Instagram,
Twitter, all the others at ninth February. That's where my,
my teacher voice gets used. Um, so come check.
It out please. Yeah. Got some fire videos out there on Instagram too.
Some good stuff you would advocating a lot for. Thank you.
The Teacher salary project and just overall teaching for teachers.
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