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Welcome to the Toll podcast.

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I'm Garrett Ryan, and my guest today is

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Matthew Blair. Matthew, welcome to the program.

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Hi, doctor Ryan. Hey, everyone. Fantastic to be

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here.

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It been a huge fan of the channel

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for a very long time. So, like, you

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know, finally, you know, being here is is

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absolutely amazing. So... Oh, well, very glad to

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hear. Has pleasure to have you on as

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well.

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So it's a typically Matthew The people on

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my show are dry is dust academic. And

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you've had a much more interesting career path.

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So if you please tell a little bit

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about yourself and about what you do, to

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want this into this whole thing.

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Yeah.

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Not, you know, not to say academia academia

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is

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necessarily tri boring, but, yeah, It's it's been

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a little little bit different.

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I I do have a bachelor's.

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So, like, you know, that... That's... About as

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far as I've been. But, like, I I

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was a... I have a bachelor's in history

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from...

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Steps University,

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and,

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I've been a fan of ancient history since

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I

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couldn't... Since I knew how to read,

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but the reason why I'm here today is

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because I write comic books or at least

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I aspire a a comic books for a

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living.

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Piece of advice it's extremely difficult to watch

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get to a point where you can, make

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a living off of it.

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But

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If you've been a fan of the Youtube

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channel for a while, you've probably

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maybe seen, ads for the, book I'm doing

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it for the book, I'm,

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talking about,

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for this

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podcast interview, Modest Magic k,

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this 1 right here. So...

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Mh.

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Yeah. We've got 2 issues out so far,

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and we've got a third 1 funding on

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kickstarter. So,

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you know, that's, you know, who I am

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and where I come from and why we're

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here today.

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Oh, well, fantastic.

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So launch right into the heart of this

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interview.

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What makes comics a unique way to tell

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stories?

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Alright. Yeah. So,

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believe it or not, there's actually...

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Some debate over what a comment

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actually is, which seems, you know, hard to

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believe, but, you know, it was never really

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us, it it was never really

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discussed and it was never really,

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formalized.

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If you're someone like me,

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there's a very sort of broad definition of

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what that means.

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I believe it's just, you know, stories told

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with pictures.

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So if you're... You know, if you go

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by that very broad definition,

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there's, you know, a lot of things over

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what is a comic... Or, what is a

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comic?

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You know,

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you go back to, like, ancient history, you

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have, like, cave paintings. And then, like, you

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go to, like the Egyptians, they have, like,

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you know, these the these massive sort of

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tableau of, like,

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life

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painted on, like, the walls of, far tombs.

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But you also have things like,

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you know,

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statues and F and...

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All that stuff you would find an ancient

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greece in Rome and, like,

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you know, these these...

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What what you would see on like Vivo...

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As well, Like, you know, these these stories

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instead of paper they're told in stone, which

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is, you know, a fantastic way of putting

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things, someone should really jump on that

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but, I mean, the the the real,

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like, what what we think of comics

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really started,

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really sort of kicked off with the advent

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of the printing press as most things did.

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And so the challenge

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of story of telling a story back then

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is how do

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you

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impart information to an audience that doesn't necessarily

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know how to read very well.

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And the answer is pictures.

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So you have,

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like, you know, in the early days of

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the printing press, like early days. You have,

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like, medieval pamphlet volunteers,

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who would,

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you know, deliver news on, like, you know,

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the these you know, sheets of,

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cheap paper,

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and, like, you know, they'd have

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you know, pictures to, you know, explain what's

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going on.

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And then, eventually, what that would involve... Would

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evolve into would be newspapers, and it started

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off with, like, editorial cartoons, which were like,

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the the big ones. Mh. And, eventually,

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it morph into, sort of like, the first

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sort of great age of comic books, which

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were,

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newspaper strips.

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You know, these these really rose into popularity

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in, like, the late 18 hundreds, especially in

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in the United States where you would have,

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like,

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pulitzer us and hurst, they would compete to

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who could for who would sell more newspapers.

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And,

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comics were a big part of that. You

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have,

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strips like Felix the cat by Pat Sullivan.

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You have

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my adventures of, my adventures the adventures of

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Little Ne and Slumber land by Mh. Windsor

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Mack mckay, and you have, like, the political

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cartoons of Thomas Nas.

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Who if you don't know who that is,

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he's the reason why you know what Santa

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Claus looks like. Mh.

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Absolutely dead serious.

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And so, you know, you have,

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so that's that's what it is. It's a

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way to tell...

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Stories with pictures, and sometimes words. And then

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eventually, what, you know, that evolved into was,

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people would start collecting, like,

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collections of strip of, newspaper strips into a

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book format, and that's How we eventually got

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to comic books.

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So it's it's a very

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rich and detailed history, but it's also, like,

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very very recent. Like, we're talking about people

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who, you know,

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this is still living memory for some people

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as opposed to, you know, ancient where,

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ancient days where we don't

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you know, no recollection. And, you know, no

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1 no 1 remembers the... No no 1

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living remembers the Roman Empire. But Right. Yeah...

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So,

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Okay. Well, that's a nice way of putting

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up both that longer history of comics as

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our visual art captioned or otherwise. And then

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more recent history in in pulp media. Right?

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You know, newspapers above all and then eventually

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the comic book.

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And you know, I I often think about

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medieval manuscripts often have these wacky g texts

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in the margins, which have an interplay with

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the text we're often a Bible or a

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a tome or something.

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And it's it's almost a whether it's material

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whatever else is. It's an interplay. And so

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there is a long tradition of this. But,

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course, context as we know them are a

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hundred years old give or take and comic

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books even more recent.

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So thinking about this recent more narrow definition

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of comics as, you know, the book format

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we're familiar with.

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How

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test the very broad question first.

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How have comics in this form been linked

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to ancient history and mythology?

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Alright. So

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it wasn't initially

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linked to the Greeks and Roman.

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The early

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comics and cartoons that we saw from the

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18 hundreds,

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were very

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of their time,

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and they were very

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they were a lot more concerned with, you

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know, the,

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you know, the common man like a lot

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of...

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Early cartoons were set, like, the slums of

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New York City.

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So there wasn't a whole lot of room

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for ancient Greek Roman Mythology.

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You know, not to say that,

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modern, not to say that the classics are

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sn, but,

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historically speaking, the,

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classics were reserved for the wealthy and powerful.

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With that said, you see this in a

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lot of like, political cartoons where, like, you

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have characters like Columbia and Britannia, who assume

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like, the trapping. Mh. Of,

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Greek roman imagery, like, you know, the dress,

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the helmet, the, like perceived ideals of what

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you know, we thought the Greeks romans were.

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With that being said,

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probably the moment where comic books became

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irr linked,

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to

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ancient history and mythology

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was with Superman.

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Mh. The first superhero that everyone knows is,

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superman

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which was August of 19... Which was published

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in ninth... August of 19 38.

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You know, there there were Pro heroes in

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the pulp, like, you know, you did have,

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like, you know, the phantom. You had Z.

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You had conan in the Barbarian who,

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had

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you know, the names

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and, trapping of ancient history, but, like, in

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a fantasy setting. I believe

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Ronnie Howard was a huge fan of Bronze

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age history, but he hated, like, you know,

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constantly have to tell people, oh, like, you

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know, the name of this names of these

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People and, like, the names of this person,

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that sort of thing. So he changed it.

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So he just created his entire mythology out

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of his love of history, people but,

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you know, not in history. Mh.

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And I think it's important

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to, you know, talk about superheroes,

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when it comes to comics because, like, a

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lot of people have internalized that. Like, we...

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Like, some some people call

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superheroes,

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modern mythology

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And I think that, you know, that doesn't

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mean something and that does matter a lot.

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You have,

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you know, Superman who, you know, who is

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he? He's... A, baby cast drift into space

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and sent to a

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you know, a foreign land that he doesn't

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know where he has to you know, lead

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people... He has to lead the people of

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Earth to sort of higher ideal. Like, you

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know, that's, you know, the trapping of Moses.

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Which makes sense because, you know, the guys

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who created them, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shu

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were Jewish. Mh. So, like, you know, that,

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you know, that... That... That's something that they

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really internalized.

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You have characters like

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S.

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Who...

274
00:09:56,406 --> 00:09:58,467
It's a little complicated. S suzanne was not

275
00:09:58,467 --> 00:10:01,103
published by Dc and he wasn't called S.

276
00:10:01,262 --> 00:10:03,257
He was called Captain Marvel first.

277
00:10:04,613 --> 00:10:06,448
But, you know, it's a 15 year... It's

278
00:10:06,448 --> 00:10:08,299
a it's a little kid who says this

279
00:10:08,299 --> 00:10:11,500
magic word becomes this big powerful hero. And,

280
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:12,960
like, the word S

281
00:10:13,659 --> 00:10:14,379
is actually...

282
00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:17,110
It's an ana. It... It stands for the

283
00:10:17,110 --> 00:10:18,066
wisdom of Solomon,

284
00:10:18,545 --> 00:10:19,979
the courage of achilles,

285
00:10:20,457 --> 00:10:22,370
the lightning of Zeus, the strength of Atlas

286
00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:23,486
and the speed of mercury.

287
00:10:24,139 --> 00:10:27,580
So, you know, AAA child with the power

288
00:10:27,580 --> 00:10:29,259
of literal gods. Mh.

289
00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:32,595
He actually outs outsource Superman for a large

290
00:10:32,714 --> 00:10:33,908
portion of the 19 forties,

291
00:10:34,386 --> 00:10:35,978
but there was a lawsuit because,

292
00:10:36,695 --> 00:10:39,004
Dc thought that he was a little too

293
00:10:39,004 --> 00:10:42,365
similar to Superman and portion, Dc 1.

294
00:10:43,004 --> 00:10:43,402
And,

295
00:10:45,795 --> 00:10:47,071
in the 19 fifties,

296
00:10:47,709 --> 00:10:49,167
there was a bit of a moral backlash

297
00:10:49,464 --> 00:10:53,386
comics. So, the the publisher of S, Captain

298
00:10:53,466 --> 00:10:54,901
Marvel actually went out of business.

299
00:10:55,539 --> 00:10:56,916
And in the sixties,

300
00:10:58,569 --> 00:10:59,820
marvel comics, publisher

301
00:11:01,212 --> 00:11:01,610
became,

302
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:04,953
was, like, you know, oh, you know, we

303
00:11:04,953 --> 00:11:06,624
have this character named Captain Marvel. He's named

304
00:11:06,624 --> 00:11:09,031
after our company. And they just got bought

305
00:11:09,031 --> 00:11:11,504
by our competition. So we have to make

306
00:11:11,504 --> 00:11:13,898
sure we have the name Marvel in order

307
00:11:13,898 --> 00:11:15,095
to... It it's it's a whole thing.

308
00:11:17,018 --> 00:11:19,586
Yeah. Mh. But you also have,

309
00:11:20,278 --> 00:11:22,664
you know, ties to actual, like.

310
00:11:23,793 --> 00:11:25,626
Classical literature as well. Mh.

311
00:11:26,344 --> 00:11:29,294
There's a publisher called timely comics in the

312
00:11:29,294 --> 00:11:31,605
19 forties that would eventually become marvel comics,

313
00:11:32,415 --> 00:11:34,795
1 of their characters is name or the

314
00:11:34,795 --> 00:11:35,430
submarine mariner.

315
00:11:36,381 --> 00:11:36,540
But,

316
00:11:37,333 --> 00:11:40,290
which doesn't really have any ties agent history,

317
00:11:40,529 --> 00:11:41,985
but he's the king of At.

318
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,036
So, yeah.

319
00:11:45,232 --> 00:11:46,587
So there's there's that.

320
00:11:47,478 --> 00:11:50,575
Pseudo history and crack archaeology has little to

321
00:11:50,575 --> 00:11:52,878
no place in Na academia, Academia, but,

322
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:56,292
great place in popular culture as well.

323
00:11:57,264 --> 00:11:58,544
Like, you know, if you go further in

324
00:11:58,544 --> 00:11:59,584
the 19 sixties,

325
00:12:00,704 --> 00:12:03,504
timely comics becomes marvel comics, Marvel comics is

326
00:12:03,504 --> 00:12:05,264
helm by Stanley and Jack Kirby,

327
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:07,517
We all know who Stan Lee is. Jack

328
00:12:07,597 --> 00:12:10,154
Kirby was the artist who drew most of

329
00:12:10,154 --> 00:12:10,973
the characters

330
00:12:11,352 --> 00:12:12,252
that we know

331
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:12,950
today.

332
00:12:14,635 --> 00:12:15,825
And Jack Kirby,

333
00:12:17,095 --> 00:12:18,523
you ever... Have you ever read a book

334
00:12:18,523 --> 00:12:18,840
called,

335
00:12:19,396 --> 00:12:20,269
cherries of the Gods,

336
00:12:21,476 --> 00:12:23,226
I or heard of it and avoided it

337
00:12:23,226 --> 00:12:25,056
studio as an academic. Right. Yeah.

338
00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:27,841
Jack Kirby did not avoid it. He was

339
00:12:27,841 --> 00:12:29,369
out... A huge fan of that.

340
00:12:30,563 --> 00:12:32,019
So... Yes. If you ever

341
00:12:32,475 --> 00:12:34,386
saw a movie called the eternal.

342
00:12:35,262 --> 00:12:36,457
Don't worry if you haven't seen it, no

343
00:12:36,457 --> 00:12:36,990
1 did,

344
00:12:38,942 --> 00:12:40,217
Jack Kirby was a huge fan of like,

345
00:12:40,297 --> 00:12:42,688
the ancient aliens theory and all that. And

346
00:12:42,688 --> 00:12:44,601
so you have characters like...

347
00:12:45,890 --> 00:12:46,390
Dr,

348
00:12:47,322 --> 00:12:48,458
Fin, fast,

349
00:12:48,833 --> 00:12:51,242
like, not that that they're not

350
00:12:52,268 --> 00:12:54,251
you know, the the gods directly, but, you

351
00:12:54,251 --> 00:12:55,679
know, you can you can see, like, little

352
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,503
bits of it. Like, Mh. Fast is based

353
00:12:57,503 --> 00:12:59,724
off of of a Hep asbestos, all that.

354
00:13:02,045 --> 00:13:02,364
But...

355
00:13:02,921 --> 00:13:04,672
And I and I promise this getting to

356
00:13:04,672 --> 00:13:05,945
a the to a point.

357
00:13:06,582 --> 00:13:08,572
But the big hero, the the the the

358
00:13:08,572 --> 00:13:09,868
1 that everyone

359
00:13:10,899 --> 00:13:11,618
thinks of.

360
00:13:12,097 --> 00:13:14,015
Well, I I say everyone. But, like, the

361
00:13:14,015 --> 00:13:16,034
the 1 that is most associated with

362
00:13:16,413 --> 00:13:19,150
ancient Greek mythology especially. Mh. Is

363
00:13:19,545 --> 00:13:20,184
wonder woman.

364
00:13:20,665 --> 00:13:20,825
Right.

365
00:13:22,024 --> 00:13:22,904
Who, you know,

366
00:13:24,184 --> 00:13:25,625
stop a random person on the street and

367
00:13:25,625 --> 00:13:27,144
be like, oh, superhero here's a Creek pathology.

368
00:13:27,304 --> 00:13:28,445
Oh, wonder woman

369
00:13:29,633 --> 00:13:31,245
wonder woman is

370
00:13:32,492 --> 00:13:32,992
weird.

371
00:13:34,001 --> 00:13:34,398
Like,

372
00:13:36,065 --> 00:13:36,565
so

373
00:13:37,194 --> 00:13:39,587
Wonder woman was created by a man named

374
00:13:39,746 --> 00:13:40,863
Willie Mo Mars,

375
00:13:41,501 --> 00:13:44,947
and he was a professor of, ecology or

376
00:13:44,947 --> 00:13:47,421
psychiatry. I don't remember which 1 at Harvard.

377
00:13:48,379 --> 00:13:48,778
And,

378
00:13:49,496 --> 00:13:50,475
he was also

379
00:13:52,863 --> 00:13:54,617
I'm love to use the word radical feminist,

380
00:13:54,777 --> 00:13:57,249
but he was a strong believer in the

381
00:13:57,249 --> 00:13:58,308
idea that

382
00:13:58,765 --> 00:14:01,977
women were inherently superior to men and that

383
00:14:02,449 --> 00:14:05,103
like, the the the rise of domestic

384
00:14:07,396 --> 00:14:09,731
machines to make home life easier would allow

385
00:14:10,043 --> 00:14:12,109
women to assume their rightful place as sort

386
00:14:12,109 --> 00:14:14,118
of, like, the the the document

387
00:14:14,571 --> 00:14:16,558
part of doc dominant half of the species,

388
00:14:17,447 --> 00:14:19,436
this is the 19 forties by the way,

389
00:14:20,549 --> 00:14:22,061
you know, and he... He's writing this.

390
00:14:22,936 --> 00:14:24,644
He's also the guy that created

391
00:14:25,182 --> 00:14:26,618
the... You you know how when you have,

392
00:14:26,698 --> 00:14:28,454
like, the lie detectors, they put, like, the

393
00:14:28,454 --> 00:14:30,449
the heartbeat monitor on your chest.

394
00:14:31,007 --> 00:14:31,805
He invented that.

395
00:14:32,617 --> 00:14:33,810
So, like, you know, wonder woman and the

396
00:14:33,890 --> 00:14:36,515
Lasso of truth. Yeah. That... That's where that

397
00:14:36,515 --> 00:14:39,870
comes from. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. He... He was

398
00:14:39,870 --> 00:14:42,117
also engaged in a poly

399
00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:44,874
relationship with his wife and 1 of his

400
00:14:44,874 --> 00:14:45,669
grad students.

401
00:14:46,145 --> 00:14:47,496
And he was completely...

402
00:14:48,308 --> 00:14:48,548
Into,

403
00:14:49,346 --> 00:14:49,846
Bd,

404
00:14:50,224 --> 00:14:51,581
and, like, he did a lot of studies

405
00:14:51,581 --> 00:14:52,560
of, like, so

406
00:14:52,938 --> 00:14:54,375
and, like, h rituals.

407
00:14:55,013 --> 00:14:58,636
So, like, you know, out of this. Who

408
00:14:59,091 --> 00:14:59,966
wonderful to report.

409
00:15:01,558 --> 00:15:02,831
And if you read a lot of the

410
00:15:02,831 --> 00:15:04,676
early stories of her.

411
00:15:05,471 --> 00:15:07,618
Like, there's some really rocky stuff to get,

412
00:15:07,777 --> 00:15:08,810
like, tied up a lot.

413
00:15:09,605 --> 00:15:10,718
But at the same time,

414
00:15:11,673 --> 00:15:13,683
you know, wonder woman her mother is

415
00:15:13,994 --> 00:15:15,273
Hip apollo. Right?

416
00:15:16,551 --> 00:15:18,869
You know, who... The queen of the Amazons,

417
00:15:19,108 --> 00:15:19,827
and it's like,

418
00:15:20,626 --> 00:15:22,876
you have that you have that saint that

419
00:15:22,876 --> 00:15:24,149
that same thing we were talking about at

420
00:15:24,149 --> 00:15:25,821
the very, very beginning of the question. Like,

421
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:27,673
the the idea of,

422
00:15:28,128 --> 00:15:30,834
you know, you know, these higher ideals being

423
00:15:30,834 --> 00:15:33,578
brought to Earth, You but using the trapping

424
00:15:33,875 --> 00:15:34,193
of,

425
00:15:35,229 --> 00:15:37,858
Greek and Roman history and mythology. And

426
00:15:38,575 --> 00:15:40,726
you know, for some weird reason,

427
00:15:41,457 --> 00:15:43,605
Dc has chose to focus more on that

428
00:15:43,605 --> 00:15:46,389
these days than the really weird, you know,

429
00:15:46,468 --> 00:15:49,606
the the the weird bonded stuff. Mh. But

430
00:15:50,375 --> 00:15:51,907
yeah. You can see that

431
00:15:53,311 --> 00:15:54,819
in in a lot of, modern.

432
00:15:55,788 --> 00:15:57,702
Wonder woman's choice. Especially, like, in the 19

433
00:15:57,702 --> 00:15:57,942
eighties,

434
00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:00,175
an artist named George Perez,

435
00:16:01,371 --> 00:16:03,844
I'm... III apologize if I get the the

436
00:16:03,844 --> 00:16:04,482
the names wrong.

437
00:16:06,493 --> 00:16:07,532
She really started taking

438
00:16:08,891 --> 00:16:10,429
more of a ancient history,

439
00:16:12,007 --> 00:16:14,325
tone in the 19 eighties and especially now,

440
00:16:15,293 --> 00:16:16,428
a writer named

441
00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:18,942
Kelly Sue khan, who's fantastically.

442
00:16:19,894 --> 00:16:21,321
You should read all of this stuff. She

443
00:16:21,321 --> 00:16:22,535
wrote a book called

444
00:16:23,321 --> 00:16:25,548
Amazon historian, which gave the Amazon's a bit

445
00:16:25,548 --> 00:16:28,036
of a backstory. Mh And she firmly

446
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:30,637
firmly sets it in ancient Greece.

447
00:16:31,368 --> 00:16:34,710
And it's a gorgeous book, and I highly

448
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:35,745
recommend it. So, you know.

449
00:16:36,859 --> 00:16:38,768
So that that that is a very long

450
00:16:38,768 --> 00:16:39,882
very mean very,

451
00:16:42,042 --> 00:16:43,811
concise history of sort of how

452
00:16:44,343 --> 00:16:45,216
ancient pathology,

453
00:16:45,692 --> 00:16:47,677
and, especially Greek roman mythology,

454
00:16:48,089 --> 00:16:50,634
Mh mid into comics. Now you also have

455
00:16:50,634 --> 00:16:52,861
4, but that's Norse mythology. That's that's different.

456
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:53,259
Right.

457
00:16:54,055 --> 00:16:54,293
Tangible.

458
00:16:55,183 --> 00:16:57,328
It's it's very interesting. Think about how... They

459
00:16:57,328 --> 00:16:59,156
essentially all these things are kind of archetypes.

460
00:16:59,394 --> 00:17:00,666
You have, you know, kind of, a hero's

461
00:17:00,666 --> 00:17:02,572
journey. Well, like you mentioned before, the idea

462
00:17:02,572 --> 00:17:04,256
of, like, you know, a Moses... It figure

463
00:17:04,256 --> 00:17:06,242
the case of superman. You know, we have

464
00:17:06,242 --> 00:17:07,377
this in the case of wrong

465
00:17:07,751 --> 00:17:09,816
that are adrift on the river ty found

466
00:17:09,816 --> 00:17:12,199
by, the Wolf Suck, you, raised by the

467
00:17:12,199 --> 00:17:13,605
shepherd, and so on, that

468
00:17:14,681 --> 00:17:17,574
many other examples sa Back, for example, Human

469
00:17:17,712 --> 00:17:20,105
cultures seemed to like certain patterns where, you,

470
00:17:20,185 --> 00:17:22,099
the hero has cast out, the of Campbell,

471
00:17:22,258 --> 00:17:24,028
the heroes journey all that kind thing. Oh,

472
00:17:24,188 --> 00:17:26,500
yeah. Yeah. Like, this is the... Yeah. Campbell

473
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:27,616
was, you know, doing his,

474
00:17:28,334 --> 00:17:28,972
all this work.

475
00:17:29,769 --> 00:17:31,205
In the sixties when all of this was

476
00:17:31,205 --> 00:17:33,693
being created. Right? Like thing Yeah. They were

477
00:17:33,693 --> 00:17:35,451
they were all huge fans. And, yeah, You're

478
00:17:35,451 --> 00:17:37,928
right. The the idea of the baby being

479
00:17:37,928 --> 00:17:39,925
cast adrift into the river and being found

480
00:17:39,925 --> 00:17:42,091
is a... Is a definite architect. We... They

481
00:17:42,091 --> 00:17:44,239
think advantage a lot of kids. They they

482
00:17:44,239 --> 00:17:46,570
did. And historically too kind of sadly. But

483
00:17:46,945 --> 00:17:48,696
but anyway, thinking about the extent to which

484
00:17:48,696 --> 00:17:49,731
they're borrowing...

485
00:17:50,064 --> 00:17:52,294
From. We can remember mythology. And and it

486
00:17:52,294 --> 00:17:53,966
might be superficial in many cases. Like in

487
00:17:53,966 --> 00:17:55,638
the case of Columbia, for example, who looks

488
00:17:55,638 --> 00:17:57,151
kind of like Athena, but isn't really a

489
00:17:57,151 --> 00:17:58,920
athena. She just has a nice you know,

490
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,839
Greek Pal on and looks good with a

491
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:01,079
spear.

492
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,720
And then there's these deeper borrowing wings. Like

493
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,240
in the case if Wonder above all. Were

494
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,079
they actually delve into with Mythology,

495
00:18:08,050 --> 00:18:10,195
at least the extent of recovering the names,

496
00:18:10,354 --> 00:18:12,896
and something about how they operated in the

497
00:18:12,896 --> 00:18:15,358
context of Quest antiquity and bring that into

498
00:18:15,358 --> 00:18:17,319
a story that they're not itself ancient

499
00:18:17,914 --> 00:18:19,419
has constant reference to it.

500
00:18:20,291 --> 00:18:22,747
Yeah. And so are there other examples besides

501
00:18:22,747 --> 00:18:24,094
1 roman that people might not be as

502
00:18:24,094 --> 00:18:25,857
familiar with, for example, that you can think

503
00:18:25,857 --> 00:18:27,528
of, off the top of your head. Of

504
00:18:27,528 --> 00:18:29,221
curiosity of this kind of biological

505
00:18:29,914 --> 00:18:30,789
superficial or deeper,

506
00:18:31,505 --> 00:18:34,302
for Yeah. Well, you know, like I said,

507
00:18:34,859 --> 00:18:37,085
in the 19 sixties, you know, Jack Kirby

508
00:18:37,085 --> 00:18:39,334
was a huge fan of the ancient aliens

509
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:40,821
theory. Right. And you have...

510
00:18:41,474 --> 00:18:43,392
You have the eternal. So, like, You know,

511
00:18:43,552 --> 00:18:45,470
they... Their... The gods come to Earth.

512
00:18:46,429 --> 00:18:48,427
You know, Athena Fast. I I should've have

513
00:18:48,427 --> 00:18:50,265
talk todd that talk talk talk talked about

514
00:18:50,265 --> 00:18:52,509
that then. But you also have,

515
00:18:54,496 --> 00:18:56,164
you you also have you know, a lot

516
00:18:56,164 --> 00:18:57,913
more obvious characters. So, like,

517
00:18:59,443 --> 00:19:01,920
You have the the big 2 comic book

518
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,997
publishers in American media.

519
00:19:05,195 --> 00:19:05,695
And

520
00:19:06,089 --> 00:19:07,684
you you have you have Dc, you have

521
00:19:07,843 --> 00:19:10,076
Marvel, And they have... They've they've taken very

522
00:19:10,076 --> 00:19:11,613
different approaches. Like, Dc

523
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:14,303
is a more direct translation. So, like, you

524
00:19:14,303 --> 00:19:16,473
know, you have, like, you know, you know,

525
00:19:17,192 --> 00:19:19,190
the the the gods exist and they are

526
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:19,589
above us.

527
00:19:20,708 --> 00:19:23,265
And then you have, marvel comics as well.

528
00:19:24,958 --> 00:19:27,115
Stanley very famously said that,

529
00:19:28,075 --> 00:19:29,912
the Marvel universe is the universe you can

530
00:19:29,912 --> 00:19:32,150
see outside your window, but more so.

531
00:19:33,277 --> 00:19:35,261
So, like, it's it's a lot more...

532
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,539
I wanna

533
00:19:39,388 --> 00:19:41,627
realistic. Which I'm gonna use heavy quotes there.

534
00:19:41,866 --> 00:19:43,081
Right. Because

535
00:19:43,534 --> 00:19:45,361
you know, I mean, you know, the fantastic

536
00:19:45,361 --> 00:19:46,712
4 and, like, you know,

537
00:19:47,522 --> 00:19:48,896
weird science and

538
00:19:49,668 --> 00:19:51,337
mh. All that all that stuff is on

539
00:19:51,337 --> 00:19:51,973
full display.

540
00:19:52,689 --> 00:19:55,392
But at the same time, like, Marvel adopted

541
00:19:55,392 --> 00:19:57,497
a policy of like, all

542
00:19:57,951 --> 00:19:59,860
all of the methodologies of the world, all

543
00:19:59,860 --> 00:20:00,598
of the

544
00:20:00,973 --> 00:20:02,961
you know, the histories of the world, they're

545
00:20:02,961 --> 00:20:04,924
all real. They they all, like,

546
00:20:06,078 --> 00:20:07,430
you know, they they all exist in they're

547
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:10,135
all valid. So, you know, you have...

548
00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:14,139
You know, you you have the artists sort

549
00:20:14,139 --> 00:20:16,460
of imposing their thoughts onto it, but you

550
00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:18,619
also have, you know, more direct translations as

551
00:20:18,619 --> 00:20:19,099
well there.

552
00:20:19,911 --> 00:20:20,411
Her

553
00:20:20,864 --> 00:20:21,761
is a

554
00:20:22,136 --> 00:20:25,235
character who shows up in the, in marvel

555
00:20:25,235 --> 00:20:25,553
comics.

556
00:20:26,189 --> 00:20:27,619
He's not, you know,

557
00:20:28,748 --> 00:20:30,739
thrust to the forefront, but he exists.

558
00:20:32,094 --> 00:20:33,288
I I wanna say,

559
00:20:34,005 --> 00:20:35,280
I can't remember off the top of my

560
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,692
head, but I believe he was... He became

561
00:20:38,084 --> 00:20:40,022
prevalent in like, the seventies when

562
00:20:40,721 --> 00:20:41,221
what

563
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:42,878
when they were doing the,

564
00:20:45,845 --> 00:20:47,060
pulp s

565
00:20:48,546 --> 00:20:50,055
movies from, like, the seventies, like, you know,

566
00:20:50,214 --> 00:20:52,359
Hercules fights the mold people or something. That.

567
00:20:53,233 --> 00:20:53,471
Yeah.

568
00:20:54,106 --> 00:20:54,663
So, like,

569
00:20:56,033 --> 00:20:57,791
you know, Marvel being the

570
00:20:58,271 --> 00:20:58,771
shameless

571
00:20:59,949 --> 00:21:00,268
you know,

572
00:21:01,227 --> 00:21:03,225
copier of pop culture, and and they were.

573
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,119
You know, they were, like, hey. We want

574
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,160
that in a comics. So Mh, Her eric

575
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:09,559
shows up.

576
00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:12,440
And they also did, like, you, the exploitation

577
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,372
and the the kung fu films of the

578
00:21:14,611 --> 00:21:15,969
Mh. Sixties and seventies,

579
00:21:16,447 --> 00:21:18,204
they show up as well. So, like,

580
00:21:19,641 --> 00:21:21,636
it... It's very much a case of, like,

581
00:21:22,690 --> 00:21:25,250
popular culture sort of informing itself and copying

582
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:26,769
from itself and then, you know,

583
00:21:28,049 --> 00:21:29,569
cycling through as well. So

584
00:21:30,304 --> 00:21:30,544
You know,

585
00:21:31,343 --> 00:21:32,622
the those are some of the more,

586
00:21:33,421 --> 00:21:35,200
the more obscure references.

587
00:21:35,658 --> 00:21:38,056
Mh. But, you know, they still exist. And

588
00:21:38,056 --> 00:21:40,148
they're... They're all very interested. And like, you

589
00:21:40,148 --> 00:21:42,942
you have these, you know, artists and these

590
00:21:42,942 --> 00:21:43,442
creators,

591
00:21:44,299 --> 00:21:45,358
you know, taking

592
00:21:45,896 --> 00:21:48,611
not only the established mythology, but the, the

593
00:21:48,611 --> 00:21:49,144
established thing

594
00:21:51,822 --> 00:21:54,379
continuity of the books. Mh. Like, you know,

595
00:21:54,459 --> 00:21:55,817
we're we're we're at a point where we

596
00:21:55,817 --> 00:21:56,217
have,

597
00:21:57,176 --> 00:21:57,915
enough history,

598
00:21:58,549 --> 00:22:01,496
and continuity in the comics for the, creators

599
00:22:01,496 --> 00:22:03,647
to, you know, borrow from that, and, you

600
00:22:03,647 --> 00:22:05,957
know, Mh bring their own influences. So, you

601
00:22:05,957 --> 00:22:07,493
know, it's it's it's it's

602
00:22:08,121 --> 00:22:08,756
It's a soup.

603
00:22:09,786 --> 00:22:11,372
And You have all these, you know, all

604
00:22:11,372 --> 00:22:13,591
these people adding all these cool stuff. So,

605
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:16,390
you know, That's what sense. Oh, soup is

606
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:18,230
delicious. So, you know that here's that. You

607
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:19,589
know, it it's funny. We were talking just

608
00:22:19,589 --> 00:22:21,829
now, I was thinking about Roman history. And,

609
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:23,429
when the romans began writing their history, it

610
00:22:23,429 --> 00:22:25,121
was rather late in the game. Well after

611
00:22:25,121 --> 00:22:27,826
they had their an empire. And many centuries

612
00:22:27,826 --> 00:22:29,418
after the Greeks riding their own history in

613
00:22:29,418 --> 00:22:31,963
their own myths down. As their own step

614
00:22:31,963 --> 00:22:33,555
into this world it has a very rich

615
00:22:33,555 --> 00:22:37,023
those literary tradition. And they borrow pretty shameless

616
00:22:37,162 --> 00:22:39,179
from every aspect of it. And.

617
00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:40,754
And you know, they have, like, 4 different

618
00:22:40,754 --> 00:22:42,964
from foundation myths. Gonna borrowed from different people

619
00:22:43,243 --> 00:22:46,030
they have different variants the foundation myth, which

620
00:22:46,030 --> 00:22:47,702
then refer to again and again, you know,

621
00:22:47,782 --> 00:22:49,613
in different ways. Even their early history is

622
00:22:49,613 --> 00:22:52,813
most as cobb together from well wish thinking,

623
00:22:52,972 --> 00:22:54,964
and again, kind of it's myth of their

624
00:22:54,964 --> 00:22:57,034
own origins. And so, I guess, every people

625
00:22:57,034 --> 00:22:58,946
is guilty of this to some degree, but

626
00:22:58,946 --> 00:23:00,355
kinda I think almost in the comic books

627
00:23:00,474 --> 00:23:01,294
style of,

628
00:23:02,154 --> 00:23:02,554
and

629
00:23:03,194 --> 00:23:05,454
alternate universes that can kind of coexist.

630
00:23:06,394 --> 00:23:08,394
If you want to create a certain kind

631
00:23:08,394 --> 00:23:08,930
of soup

632
00:23:10,245 --> 00:23:12,397
and you mentioned before how how the creators

633
00:23:12,397 --> 00:23:14,869
a superman, or borrowing both from, you know,

634
00:23:15,028 --> 00:23:17,673
the step bible stories as well as... Kind

635
00:23:17,673 --> 00:23:19,739
of, you know, greek mythology, other influences.

636
00:23:20,453 --> 00:23:24,346
So besides Gregor roman Myth, what other cultures

637
00:23:24,346 --> 00:23:25,990
have been in mined most heavily kind

638
00:23:26,984 --> 00:23:28,734
by creators of comics in the last, say,

639
00:23:28,893 --> 00:23:29,688
50, 60 years.

640
00:23:30,404 --> 00:23:32,632
What some of the biggest influences are

641
00:23:33,284 --> 00:23:34,800
norse mythology, Like, right off the top of

642
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:35,040
the head.

643
00:23:36,477 --> 00:23:38,313
You know, Marvel has, thor,

644
00:23:39,111 --> 00:23:42,086
which is not exactly a 1 to 1

645
00:23:42,795 --> 00:23:45,259
translation of, like, the the Ed and the

646
00:23:45,259 --> 00:23:47,031
prose edd. Mh. But

647
00:23:49,155 --> 00:23:49,552
eventually,

648
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,825
Marvel created their own cosmology with, like, As

649
00:23:52,825 --> 00:23:53,937
and the Gods and all that.

650
00:23:55,367 --> 00:23:57,853
And more recently, there's been a

651
00:23:59,275 --> 00:24:00,649
effort to sort of

652
00:24:01,421 --> 00:24:03,169
accommodate some other stuff as well.

653
00:24:04,362 --> 00:24:07,143
There's a publisher called graphic India.

654
00:24:08,832 --> 00:24:11,227
They did a... The this is this is

655
00:24:11,227 --> 00:24:12,664
about a decade ago.

656
00:24:13,463 --> 00:24:16,996
They did a graphic adaptation of of Mah.

657
00:24:17,548 --> 00:24:19,398
And, I'm butchering the name. I apologize.

658
00:24:20,486 --> 00:24:20,804
Mh.

659
00:24:21,518 --> 00:24:23,662
But, you know, bringing that into comics. And,

660
00:24:23,821 --> 00:24:25,409
you know, if you if you move away

661
00:24:25,409 --> 00:24:26,442
from sort of Western,

662
00:24:26,934 --> 00:24:28,531
mythology as well, then you go into, like,

663
00:24:28,850 --> 00:24:31,266
you know, Manga and Japan, which is absolutely

664
00:24:31,405 --> 00:24:31,565
huge.

665
00:24:32,283 --> 00:24:34,938
But, yeah. You have, like, the adaptations of

666
00:24:36,607 --> 00:24:38,668
you know, journey to the West. If you're

667
00:24:38,668 --> 00:24:40,967
a fan of Dragon ball z, you know...

668
00:24:41,205 --> 00:24:42,394
You know journey to the West.

669
00:24:43,108 --> 00:24:43,608
But,

670
00:24:44,633 --> 00:24:45,830
Tori made it,

671
00:24:47,347 --> 00:24:48,864
you know, gave it a Sci f twist

672
00:24:48,864 --> 00:24:51,418
as well. So Mh. Yeah. You know, a

673
00:24:51,418 --> 00:24:52,557
lot of Norse mythology,

674
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:55,208
a lot of, Japanese

675
00:24:55,986 --> 00:24:58,384
and a lot of East Asian work and,

676
00:24:58,544 --> 00:25:01,181
you know, now we're moving into sort of,

677
00:25:01,340 --> 00:25:01,580
like,

678
00:25:02,233 --> 00:25:04,715
you know, Indian mythology and some African

679
00:25:05,086 --> 00:25:07,251
as well. So, you know, the... It's,

680
00:25:07,702 --> 00:25:08,098
you know,

681
00:25:09,779 --> 00:25:11,692
a global tableau for a global world.

682
00:25:12,329 --> 00:25:14,880
Mh. And that the, you know, this, you

683
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,039
know,

684
00:25:15,757 --> 00:25:17,452
that's what's happening. So

685
00:25:17,844 --> 00:25:19,835
Well, no that. That's very interesting. I I

686
00:25:19,835 --> 00:25:21,588
wonder if in many ways, the Grease Romans,

687
00:25:21,827 --> 00:25:24,854
the heroes especially, at the mythology, we're just

688
00:25:24,854 --> 00:25:26,766
low hanging fruit. It was what everybody knew.

689
00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:29,120
And so it's feel familiar to the audiences

690
00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:30,860
and to the writers, they could mine from

691
00:25:30,860 --> 00:25:32,299
it extensively, and there was just a lot

692
00:25:32,299 --> 00:25:33,100
to borrow from.

693
00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:36,160
Absolutely. And I mean, like, you know, her...

694
00:25:37,431 --> 00:25:39,205
These t and

695
00:25:40,378 --> 00:25:42,450
like, they they they were basically superheroes to

696
00:25:42,450 --> 00:25:42,848
begin with.

697
00:25:43,565 --> 00:25:45,716
Like, you know, like, ends, you know,

698
00:25:46,769 --> 00:25:48,609
what what is the superhero? Well, you know,

699
00:25:48,769 --> 00:25:50,369
that that's a question of some debate. But,

700
00:25:50,529 --> 00:25:53,410
like, you know, the the idea of, like,

701
00:25:54,144 --> 00:25:54,644
the

702
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:59,599
you know, the the problems

703
00:26:00,218 --> 00:26:02,695
that people face, you know, the, you know,

704
00:26:03,189 --> 00:26:04,621
you know, the the the the issues of

705
00:26:04,621 --> 00:26:06,950
the day and, like, you know, it's it's

706
00:26:07,246 --> 00:26:07,882
it's a

707
00:26:08,996 --> 00:26:11,160
you know, the, you what what the hero

708
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,355
does sort of is, you know, the they,

709
00:26:12,434 --> 00:26:14,267
you know, they they they confront these problems,

710
00:26:14,346 --> 00:26:16,577
and they deal with them in, you know,

711
00:26:16,736 --> 00:26:16,896
this...

712
00:26:17,787 --> 00:26:20,020
Overblown dramatic way. And as a result, the...

713
00:26:20,179 --> 00:26:21,854
You know, there... There's a story. There's there's

714
00:26:21,854 --> 00:26:21,933
a,

715
00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:24,963
moral and there's, like, information in imparted on

716
00:26:24,963 --> 00:26:25,122
that.

717
00:26:26,494 --> 00:26:26,734
Like,

718
00:26:27,693 --> 00:26:29,371
the example I like, to I'd like to

719
00:26:29,371 --> 00:26:30,570
use in the example I hear of is,

720
00:26:30,650 --> 00:26:32,168
like, you know, when Her was fighting, like,

721
00:26:32,248 --> 00:26:34,246
the hydra. Like, it's it's sort of a

722
00:26:34,246 --> 00:26:35,625
a metaphor for

723
00:26:36,178 --> 00:26:38,720
the Greeks trying to, you know, control, like,

724
00:26:38,958 --> 00:26:40,547
rivers and water sources.

725
00:26:41,023 --> 00:26:42,453
And, like, you know, what happened... You know,

726
00:26:42,532 --> 00:26:44,121
what's... What... What's he doing? Like, you know,

727
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,964
he cuts off 1 head, he blocks you

728
00:26:45,964 --> 00:26:47,641
know, you know, you block 1 river, like,

729
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,035
you create 2 more. Mh. Sort of, you

730
00:26:50,035 --> 00:26:50,993
know, that sort of thing.

731
00:26:51,872 --> 00:26:53,229
So, you know, how you know, how do

732
00:26:53,229 --> 00:26:54,766
how do you deal with,

733
00:26:56,038 --> 00:26:57,237
you know, how do you deal with the

734
00:26:57,237 --> 00:26:58,515
issues of the day? And, like, you know,

735
00:26:58,675 --> 00:27:00,273
you see that with, like, the first appearance

736
00:27:00,273 --> 00:27:02,371
of superman, Who is an absolute?

737
00:27:03,483 --> 00:27:03,983
Prick

738
00:27:04,358 --> 00:27:06,189
in his first appearance. Like, he is... He

739
00:27:06,189 --> 00:27:07,701
is not a nice person.

740
00:27:08,974 --> 00:27:10,270
Like, he

741
00:27:12,487 --> 00:27:14,234
like, within the span of a few pages,

742
00:27:14,790 --> 00:27:16,720
he stops a

743
00:27:17,411 --> 00:27:19,555
he stops the execution of a wrongfully convicted

744
00:27:19,555 --> 00:27:19,793
man,

745
00:27:20,443 --> 00:27:20,943
he

746
00:27:22,504 --> 00:27:23,004
brutally

747
00:27:23,376 --> 00:27:23,876
assaults

748
00:27:24,248 --> 00:27:25,992
a person who a wife beater,

749
00:27:26,626 --> 00:27:27,126
and

750
00:27:28,069 --> 00:27:30,306
my my personal favorite, he goes to... Like,

751
00:27:30,386 --> 00:27:31,425
he he

752
00:27:32,623 --> 00:27:33,902
runs over to Washington Dc

753
00:27:34,940 --> 00:27:37,349
Grabs a corrupt politician by the scrub of

754
00:27:37,349 --> 00:27:39,183
the neck and basically holds him out over

755
00:27:39,183 --> 00:27:41,257
the window until the man agrees to start

756
00:27:41,257 --> 00:27:42,055
doing his job.

757
00:27:42,773 --> 00:27:45,165
Dead serious. Like... Yeah. No. The I... Yeah.

758
00:27:46,215 --> 00:27:48,682
There's also a moment... There's also a moment

759
00:27:48,682 --> 00:27:50,455
in a later issue where he

760
00:27:51,148 --> 00:27:51,785
demolish is,

761
00:27:52,834 --> 00:27:53,872
you know, poorly subsidize,

762
00:27:54,351 --> 00:27:55,947
you know, he he demolish his,

763
00:27:56,746 --> 00:27:57,783
project housing block.

764
00:27:58,821 --> 00:28:00,976
In order to force the government to build

765
00:28:00,976 --> 00:28:04,012
better housing, for The poor needs. So, like,

766
00:28:04,091 --> 00:28:04,409
you know,

767
00:28:05,441 --> 00:28:06,631
that... That's also a thing.

768
00:28:07,584 --> 00:28:09,384
So, you know, the, you know, the... For

769
00:28:09,584 --> 00:28:11,737
they they are... They they truly do stand

770
00:28:11,737 --> 00:28:14,130
for, you know, truth and justice. So Mh.

771
00:28:14,290 --> 00:28:15,566
Like, you know, you have that as well

772
00:28:15,566 --> 00:28:17,879
with the the heroes. So you're right. It's

773
00:28:17,879 --> 00:28:18,778
a it's a very

774
00:28:19,888 --> 00:28:22,440
reaching very low hanging fruit for people to,

775
00:28:22,919 --> 00:28:23,397
crib from.

776
00:28:24,355 --> 00:28:25,790
Yeah know. 1 thing before we go on

777
00:28:25,790 --> 00:28:27,146
as we were talking here, I was thinking

778
00:28:27,146 --> 00:28:29,140
that in many ways, Alexander the great,

779
00:28:29,793 --> 00:28:32,346
is a superhero. As he's portrayed later on

780
00:28:32,346 --> 00:28:33,063
his geography.

781
00:28:33,861 --> 00:28:35,297
Blue of course, you know, has these actual

782
00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:37,370
accomplishments, which are incredible, You know, before he's

783
00:28:37,370 --> 00:28:38,806
32 conquering the known world.

784
00:28:39,538 --> 00:28:41,207
But later on, there are more and more

785
00:28:41,207 --> 00:28:43,671
sensational versions of his history. The alexander Romance

786
00:28:43,671 --> 00:28:46,079
it's called. We're, like fights giant scorpions,

787
00:28:46,533 --> 00:28:48,440
you know, he goes off and Mar exotic.

788
00:28:48,774 --> 00:28:51,884
Queens, and even has become this superhuman figure

789
00:28:51,884 --> 00:28:53,480
of in the middle Asia even in many

790
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,017
different cultures from

791
00:28:55,554 --> 00:28:57,149
you know, from the far east, you know,

792
00:28:57,627 --> 00:28:59,473
rather the Middle East all the way through

793
00:28:59,553 --> 00:29:00,188
Western Europe.

794
00:29:00,824 --> 00:29:03,208
And say is a sense So... Yeah. I

795
00:29:03,208 --> 00:29:04,876
think I think there's a moment where, like,

796
00:29:05,035 --> 00:29:05,512
in the...

797
00:29:07,673 --> 00:29:09,268
Corona or and I radiant literature where he

798
00:29:09,268 --> 00:29:11,421
finds Yeah. In both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

799
00:29:11,580 --> 00:29:13,574
Yeah And and all these different things. And

800
00:29:13,574 --> 00:29:15,009
he just kinda of shows up, you, scanned

801
00:29:15,009 --> 00:29:16,779
or the 2 horns, like, from therapist. And

802
00:29:16,779 --> 00:29:18,454
you he... He is a superhero, basically.

803
00:29:19,172 --> 00:29:21,724
Okay. Know these... And these writers in many

804
00:29:21,724 --> 00:29:24,276
cases do know these stories mythology. And I'm

805
00:29:24,276 --> 00:29:27,001
importing them onto this mortal mortal figures history.

806
00:29:27,399 --> 00:29:28,988
So there's nothing new in many ways. This

807
00:29:28,988 --> 00:29:30,418
is low hanging fruit for them and they've

808
00:29:30,418 --> 00:29:32,166
applied it to this historical figure.

809
00:29:32,722 --> 00:29:33,676
Mh. But to move,

810
00:29:34,311 --> 00:29:35,185
from mythology,

811
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:37,437
shi via history in this case.

812
00:29:38,476 --> 00:29:40,474
What are some ways that ko have addressed

813
00:29:40,474 --> 00:29:43,031
the ancient world outside of mythology? There's the

814
00:29:43,031 --> 00:29:44,550
history of classical world.

815
00:29:45,201 --> 00:29:46,627
Are are are the aspects of it?

816
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:48,134
Alright. So... Yeah.

817
00:29:51,305 --> 00:29:52,177
Every... So...

818
00:29:52,669 --> 00:29:55,376
What... So it wasn't just the mythology that

819
00:29:55,376 --> 00:29:57,866
we like to crib from. It was the

820
00:29:58,481 --> 00:30:00,790
ideals or the perceived ideal.

821
00:30:01,443 --> 00:30:04,712
You know, going back again, to Columbia, like,

822
00:30:04,872 --> 00:30:06,944
you know, Mh. The the the reason why,

823
00:30:07,104 --> 00:30:09,757
you know, she assumes the trapping of

824
00:30:10,069 --> 00:30:11,825
you know, the Greeks is because, you know,

825
00:30:11,985 --> 00:30:12,884
we we used,

826
00:30:13,502 --> 00:30:15,098
you know, you, you know, we you have,

827
00:30:15,418 --> 00:30:17,413
you know, American and, British,

828
00:30:19,503 --> 00:30:20,003
politics

829
00:30:20,379 --> 00:30:22,924
has its basis in Greek Roman law.

830
00:30:24,834 --> 00:30:25,334
And

831
00:30:26,187 --> 00:30:28,017
more an in a more modern sense,

832
00:30:29,226 --> 00:30:29,726
we've

833
00:30:30,263 --> 00:30:30,581
started...

834
00:30:31,777 --> 00:30:33,849
We, like, a lot of comic creators started,

835
00:30:34,806 --> 00:30:36,103
borrowing from

836
00:30:36,973 --> 00:30:38,330
you know, the the perceived,

837
00:30:39,846 --> 00:30:42,399
you know, they perceived ideals of the Greeks

838
00:30:42,399 --> 00:30:42,718
themselves.

839
00:30:44,329 --> 00:30:45,210
And this is a very,

840
00:30:46,250 --> 00:30:48,509
very, sort of roundabout lead up to

841
00:30:49,210 --> 00:30:51,130
the... What is probably the the the big

842
00:30:51,130 --> 00:30:51,769
1 in the room.

843
00:30:52,505 --> 00:30:54,105
If you're a fan of agent history,

844
00:30:54,585 --> 00:30:56,345
you've probably at some point in your life,

845
00:30:56,904 --> 00:30:59,704
had to deal with people who are a

846
00:30:59,704 --> 00:31:02,857
little... Too obsessed with the movie 300. Mh

847
00:31:04,115 --> 00:31:04,514
Yes.

848
00:31:05,073 --> 00:31:05,233
Yes.

849
00:31:06,112 --> 00:31:08,110
That's the big 1 that, I like, I

850
00:31:08,110 --> 00:31:09,713
like to talk about.

851
00:31:10,665 --> 00:31:14,235
But... Yeah, The the the movie 300 is

852
00:31:14,235 --> 00:31:15,584
based off of a comic book by a

853
00:31:15,584 --> 00:31:16,750
guy named Frank Miller to

854
00:31:17,908 --> 00:31:20,066
Frank Miller is 1 of those names and

855
00:31:20,066 --> 00:31:21,664
comics that, like, you know,

856
00:31:23,263 --> 00:31:25,021
the the lay man doesn't necessarily know, but,

857
00:31:25,101 --> 00:31:25,740
like, fans.

858
00:31:26,634 --> 00:31:26,954
No.

859
00:31:28,152 --> 00:31:29,271
If you don't know who Frank miller is,

860
00:31:29,431 --> 00:31:30,789
He's the reason you know who Dared devil

861
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:32,867
is, and he's also the reason why Superman

862
00:31:32,867 --> 00:31:34,545
and Batman keep fighting each other.

863
00:31:35,119 --> 00:31:36,320
They used to be really good friends all

864
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,600
the time. But then,

865
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,080
Miller created the dark knight rises in 19

866
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:40,640
86,

867
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,084
and it's... You know... They've been front enemies

868
00:31:44,084 --> 00:31:44,561
ever since.

869
00:31:46,948 --> 00:31:47,187
But,

870
00:31:47,824 --> 00:31:48,324
Miller

871
00:31:49,176 --> 00:31:50,211
created 300,

872
00:31:50,609 --> 00:31:53,334
he actually... Borrowed from the 19 sixties movie.

873
00:31:54,291 --> 00:31:56,684
A lot of people don't remember that, remember

874
00:31:56,684 --> 00:31:58,438
that, but there was, you know, the the

875
00:31:58,438 --> 00:31:58,678
movie,

876
00:31:59,555 --> 00:32:00,831
you know, the 300 Spartan.

877
00:32:01,484 --> 00:32:02,360
In like, the sixties.

878
00:32:02,998 --> 00:32:04,989
So that's... That's what Miller was following from.

879
00:32:05,228 --> 00:32:07,082
So, like, you have

880
00:32:08,415 --> 00:32:09,788
in I mean, I don't I don't need

881
00:32:09,788 --> 00:32:11,626
to talk about 300 and what and, you

882
00:32:11,626 --> 00:32:13,543
know, the the stuff it talks about. It...

883
00:32:13,703 --> 00:32:15,861
It's it's problematic, but at the same time,

884
00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:17,709
it's like, you know, know, the the, you

885
00:32:17,709 --> 00:32:20,176
know, the the Greeks did believe in their

886
00:32:20,176 --> 00:32:23,201
inherent superiority over everyone else for a better

887
00:32:23,201 --> 00:32:24,450
or for worse. You

888
00:32:25,448 --> 00:32:27,845
and so, you know, that's that's on display

889
00:32:27,845 --> 00:32:28,484
and, like,

890
00:32:31,773 --> 00:32:33,607
And, you know, that... That's, you know, what...

891
00:32:34,006 --> 00:32:35,282
That's 1 of the big things. It's it's

892
00:32:35,282 --> 00:32:36,340
it's not just

893
00:32:36,717 --> 00:32:39,269
the stories. It's the culture that came from

894
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:40,305
those stories as well.

895
00:32:41,117 --> 00:32:42,334
You'll be pleased to know

896
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:45,123
that there is actually a book series

897
00:32:45,738 --> 00:32:47,332
that was a little more recent.

898
00:32:48,936 --> 00:32:51,396
That was published by group called image comics.

899
00:32:51,793 --> 00:32:52,825
It's called 3,

900
00:32:53,619 --> 00:32:55,309
and it's actually sort of a

901
00:32:56,578 --> 00:32:57,617
answer to,

902
00:32:58,176 --> 00:33:00,253
300. It's by a guy named Karen Gill,

903
00:33:00,492 --> 00:33:01,211
who is,

904
00:33:02,824 --> 00:33:03,720
you know, he

905
00:33:04,252 --> 00:33:05,997
he he's he's a very well established writer.

906
00:33:06,235 --> 00:33:07,981
He's done a lot of, stuff with Marvel

907
00:33:08,060 --> 00:33:08,560
Dc

908
00:33:09,091 --> 00:33:10,678
and mythology as well.

909
00:33:12,208 --> 00:33:13,747
But it's about

910
00:33:14,285 --> 00:33:16,064
a group of, He

911
00:33:16,762 --> 00:33:18,360
from sparta of slaves,

912
00:33:19,411 --> 00:33:20,288
who, you know,

913
00:33:21,005 --> 00:33:23,235
realized, hey, the, you know, the system kinda

914
00:33:23,235 --> 00:33:25,759
sucks. And so they've they rebel against

915
00:33:26,357 --> 00:33:28,189
the spartan. And it it doesn't end well

916
00:33:28,189 --> 00:33:30,339
for them, but, like, it it talk... It

917
00:33:30,339 --> 00:33:31,773
goes into a lot more detail about, like,

918
00:33:31,853 --> 00:33:33,287
you know, Mh Oh, this is what ancient

919
00:33:33,446 --> 00:33:36,110
Sparta was actually like. As opposed to this

920
00:33:36,405 --> 00:33:40,085
hyper masculine hyper ideal version. Right

921
00:33:40,778 --> 00:33:41,334
But, yeah.

922
00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:43,742
You know, that... That's it's

923
00:33:44,355 --> 00:33:44,410
as

924
00:33:45,327 --> 00:33:47,661
you know, it it it's it's the culture

925
00:33:48,517 --> 00:33:49,017
that's

926
00:33:50,032 --> 00:33:52,685
the Greeks left behind as well, for better

927
00:33:52,743 --> 00:33:53,381
or for worse.

928
00:33:55,229 --> 00:33:56,743
So, you know, that that's it... That's the

929
00:33:56,743 --> 00:33:58,416
other stuff we've done. So...

930
00:33:59,212 --> 00:34:00,647
Yeah. That's nice way to talk about it.

931
00:34:00,726 --> 00:34:02,399
That there's kind of both polls represented both

932
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:06,151
for 300 as... The somewhat problematic ideal utilization

933
00:34:06,151 --> 00:34:07,818
of certain aspects of the Greek world.

934
00:34:08,613 --> 00:34:10,757
And this attempt to really get at the

935
00:34:10,757 --> 00:34:13,394
often pretty brutal reality of that world. In

936
00:34:13,394 --> 00:34:14,831
these, you know, 303.

937
00:34:15,469 --> 00:34:17,146
Yeah, when I saw 300 for the first

938
00:34:17,146 --> 00:34:19,141
time, you, I was 20 years old, When

939
00:34:19,141 --> 00:34:20,817
it came out, you know, that's dating myself,

940
00:34:20,977 --> 00:34:23,245
I guess, pretty accurately. I saw an imac

941
00:34:23,302 --> 00:34:24,732
and came out, like, that was the best

942
00:34:24,732 --> 00:34:26,481
thing Ever seen in my life. Like, I

943
00:34:26,481 --> 00:34:27,594
know even then it it was, you know,

944
00:34:27,673 --> 00:34:29,263
there were things that were problematic about it.

945
00:34:30,057 --> 00:34:32,302
Various orient, but, like, At the same time,

946
00:34:32,621 --> 00:34:33,579
I just had a lot of fun with

947
00:34:33,579 --> 00:34:35,755
that movie. And then we are obviously.

948
00:34:36,132 --> 00:34:37,250
And it was a huge amount of fun.

949
00:34:37,409 --> 00:34:38,925
They they had Bridal Cavalry. Come on.

950
00:34:39,739 --> 00:34:41,179
But but then, right, Yeah. Yeah, was like,

951
00:34:41,260 --> 00:34:43,420
kinda got became, you know, older and more

952
00:34:43,420 --> 00:34:45,260
of a historian. Yeah. It became, you know,

953
00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:46,699
somewhat less fun to watch it.

954
00:34:47,749 --> 00:34:49,817
But Obviously they show his poles of enjoyment

955
00:34:49,817 --> 00:34:52,363
and his historical was responsibility in entertainment about

956
00:34:52,363 --> 00:34:53,397
ancient history. And...

957
00:34:54,207 --> 00:34:55,580
So then it sound like an.

958
00:34:55,953 --> 00:34:57,938
See the did did you see the sequel?

959
00:34:58,811 --> 00:35:01,509
I I did not. I I heard interesting

960
00:35:01,509 --> 00:35:03,987
things about the sequel. Yeah Yeah. It's...

961
00:35:05,738 --> 00:35:07,886
Like, it literally starts off with the line.

962
00:35:08,523 --> 00:35:10,193
Like, like, it's it it's actually set...

963
00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:11,068
It...

964
00:35:12,038 --> 00:35:14,098
It's it's it it's set before,

965
00:35:15,128 --> 00:35:17,188
the battle of thermo Apply. It it starts

966
00:35:17,188 --> 00:35:18,772
with the battle of Marathon. And then it

967
00:35:18,772 --> 00:35:21,168
runs like... Concurrently as well. It's about, optimistic

968
00:35:21,168 --> 00:35:23,549
and it culminate the battle of Salami. Yeah.

969
00:35:24,740 --> 00:35:25,240
And

970
00:35:25,931 --> 00:35:27,780
like, it opens with the line

971
00:35:28,645 --> 00:35:30,869
you know, darius annoyed by the notions of

972
00:35:30,869 --> 00:35:32,934
pre democracy in va. It's like, that's not

973
00:35:32,934 --> 00:35:35,238
what happened. That's not what I all. Mh.

974
00:35:35,476 --> 00:35:36,906
But it's actually a lot more

975
00:35:37,382 --> 00:35:37,835
nuance

976
00:35:38,352 --> 00:35:40,504
then the original, 300, like,

977
00:35:41,699 --> 00:35:42,836
mystic actually

978
00:35:44,089 --> 00:35:45,842
talks about, like, how he thinks, like, you

979
00:35:45,842 --> 00:35:48,169
know, addis and the 300 going off die

980
00:35:48,169 --> 00:35:49,128
is stupid,

981
00:35:49,607 --> 00:35:50,646
but it's useful.

982
00:35:52,164 --> 00:35:54,242
So... And and, like, they also have a

983
00:35:54,242 --> 00:35:54,742
evergreen,

984
00:35:56,413 --> 00:35:58,798
as Art, she's oh yes.

985
00:35:59,354 --> 00:36:01,262
Oh my god. She just, like,

986
00:36:02,534 --> 00:36:04,838
she she owns the movie in, like, in

987
00:36:04,838 --> 00:36:07,394
the most ex... Stream and Hilarious kind of

988
00:36:07,394 --> 00:36:09,856
way, and it's really... Like, she's she's great.

989
00:36:10,729 --> 00:36:12,555
But, yeah. No. Like, it's it's it... It...

990
00:36:12,714 --> 00:36:14,484
It's a sequel that sort of common

991
00:36:14,793 --> 00:36:17,017
on its source material in a very interesting

992
00:36:17,017 --> 00:36:19,400
way. Mh. It was also based off of

993
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,100
another graphic novel that, Frank Miller did, but

994
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:23,927
it's not as popular and not as famous.

995
00:36:24,739 --> 00:36:26,358
They're they're they also

996
00:36:26,817 --> 00:36:28,195
come off. There they also

997
00:36:28,575 --> 00:36:31,072
creates this fiction that Z sees was

998
00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:32,810
tricked.

999
00:36:33,542 --> 00:36:35,922
Into invading Greece and that he's actually sort

1000
00:36:35,922 --> 00:36:36,422
of

1001
00:36:38,303 --> 00:36:40,208
you know, he... He... He's he's not the

1002
00:36:40,287 --> 00:36:42,445
God king he thinks he is. But, like,

1003
00:36:42,604 --> 00:36:43,581
it it's mh

1004
00:36:45,225 --> 00:36:47,369
it's it's actually pretty good. And it it's

1005
00:36:47,369 --> 00:36:49,276
it's interesting. And I would recommend giving you

1006
00:36:49,276 --> 00:36:49,752
the shot.

1007
00:36:50,324 --> 00:36:51,142
Oh, alright

1008
00:36:51,758 --> 00:36:54,148
some Saturday I who knows. Yeah. But yeah

1009
00:36:54,228 --> 00:36:56,140
Oh, Nuance is good. Right? And in Comics

1010
00:36:56,140 --> 00:36:57,973
and and in other media, and it's basically

1011
00:36:57,973 --> 00:36:59,407
be the kind of approach it there at

1012
00:36:59,407 --> 00:36:59,646
least.

1013
00:37:01,650 --> 00:37:03,878
How about a Roman history of curiosity? Are

1014
00:37:03,878 --> 00:37:05,014
you aware of many treatments

1015
00:37:05,389 --> 00:37:06,741
in comics of Roman history?

1016
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:11,129
Yeah. Well, okay. Okay. So

1017
00:37:13,276 --> 00:37:16,217
So when we're... You know, we've been talking

1018
00:37:16,217 --> 00:37:16,750
for this

1019
00:37:17,346 --> 00:37:18,539
podcast mostly about,

1020
00:37:19,176 --> 00:37:19,676
American

1021
00:37:20,051 --> 00:37:22,995
comics and American comic book culture. Alright. There

1022
00:37:22,995 --> 00:37:23,495
is

1023
00:37:24,109 --> 00:37:25,541
an entire world,

1024
00:37:26,273 --> 00:37:26,672
of,

1025
00:37:27,708 --> 00:37:29,543
comics and fiction out there,

1026
00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:30,920
that isn't

1027
00:37:31,457 --> 00:37:33,849
here. Mh. The the 2 other big ones

1028
00:37:33,849 --> 00:37:35,045
are, you know, Japan,

1029
00:37:35,538 --> 00:37:36,038
Manga,

1030
00:37:36,890 --> 00:37:39,275
that that that's that... That's pretty big. There's

1031
00:37:39,275 --> 00:37:42,456
also, the Franco Belgian comic book see. Oh,

1032
00:37:42,614 --> 00:37:44,284
yes. And, you know, the stuff that's going

1033
00:37:44,284 --> 00:37:44,841
on in Europe.

1034
00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:47,951
And, again, like, you know, fans of comics

1035
00:37:47,951 --> 00:37:49,934
and fans of ancient history are probably, like,

1036
00:37:50,092 --> 00:37:52,393
you know, champion at bit. Yes. I'm gonna

1037
00:37:52,393 --> 00:37:55,197
talk about Asterisk malcolm. Not. There's asterisk ob,

1038
00:37:56,317 --> 00:37:57,435
which is a...

1039
00:37:58,713 --> 00:38:01,510
It it it's a French comic series that

1040
00:38:01,510 --> 00:38:01,910
was...

1041
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:04,879
It's first published in the 19 sixties,

1042
00:38:05,597 --> 00:38:07,353
I am gonna butcher the names of the

1043
00:38:07,353 --> 00:38:07,751
creators.

1044
00:38:09,348 --> 00:38:09,507
I,

1045
00:38:12,148 --> 00:38:12,228
rick...

1046
00:38:13,101 --> 00:38:13,498
Renee,

1047
00:38:14,610 --> 00:38:15,324
Yesterday or...

1048
00:38:16,356 --> 00:38:17,865
III don't know how to... I, my french

1049
00:38:17,865 --> 00:38:18,342
is terrible.

1050
00:38:19,231 --> 00:38:22,570
And, Alberto, There's no. Mh. Are the the

1051
00:38:22,570 --> 00:38:23,842
people that created it. And

1052
00:38:24,716 --> 00:38:26,806
you know, it it it... It's it's very

1053
00:38:27,021 --> 00:38:27,896
French but,

1054
00:38:28,547 --> 00:38:29,105
it has...

1055
00:38:29,662 --> 00:38:31,892
It's it's very much set in ancient rome.

1056
00:38:32,052 --> 00:38:32,870
It's about

1057
00:38:33,326 --> 00:38:34,702
a... Like, the last

1058
00:38:35,635 --> 00:38:38,925
the last hold out, of, gaul culture against

1059
00:38:38,925 --> 00:38:39,484
the Romans.

1060
00:38:39,964 --> 00:38:41,405
And, like, the only reason why this village

1061
00:38:41,405 --> 00:38:43,164
is able to hold out is because the

1062
00:38:43,164 --> 00:38:45,644
village Dr knows how to brew this potion

1063
00:38:45,644 --> 00:38:46,935
that gives the, user,

1064
00:38:48,046 --> 00:38:48,681
super strength.

1065
00:38:49,713 --> 00:38:52,331
And so it's the various adventures of the

1066
00:38:52,887 --> 00:38:54,553
you know, the village warrior Asterisk,

1067
00:38:55,204 --> 00:38:57,438
and his, good friend Ob as they go

1068
00:38:57,438 --> 00:38:59,912
on, you know, adventures all across the world.

1069
00:39:00,311 --> 00:39:00,811
Mh

1070
00:39:01,508 --> 00:39:02,706
Julie Caesar's there,

1071
00:39:04,155 --> 00:39:05,667
you know, B is there.

1072
00:39:06,304 --> 00:39:06,543
There's,

1073
00:39:08,294 --> 00:39:10,761
story where they go off to ancient India,

1074
00:39:11,571 --> 00:39:13,474
Cl shows there. 1 what 1 of my

1075
00:39:13,474 --> 00:39:14,926
favorites is asterisk in Cl.

1076
00:39:15,458 --> 00:39:17,203
They make so many jokes about her nose.

1077
00:39:17,837 --> 00:39:17,996
Yes.

1078
00:39:19,518 --> 00:39:19,837
Yeah.

1079
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:22,382
The the, that's there.

1080
00:39:23,018 --> 00:39:24,689
So, like, that's the big 1.

1081
00:39:26,853 --> 00:39:28,128
It's it's 1 of the best selling comic

1082
00:39:28,128 --> 00:39:29,164
books of all time.

1083
00:39:29,961 --> 00:39:32,693
So, like, you know, it... Yeah. And so

1084
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:36,355
that... That that's... You know, it it takes,

1085
00:39:36,434 --> 00:39:39,307
like, actual, like, history and, like, adds a

1086
00:39:39,307 --> 00:39:42,261
historical twist to it. There's another story...

1087
00:39:42,994 --> 00:39:45,146
I think Ob and company where,

1088
00:39:46,819 --> 00:39:49,130
a character who is very clearly based off

1089
00:39:49,130 --> 00:39:50,246
of jacques S rock.

1090
00:39:51,853 --> 00:39:54,159
From French politics shows up, and he... Like,

1091
00:39:54,318 --> 00:39:55,909
it... He's he's basically just, like, you know,

1092
00:39:56,068 --> 00:39:57,500
it's, like, capitalism, but, like,

1093
00:39:58,394 --> 00:39:59,054
it's a

1094
00:39:59,514 --> 00:40:01,755
version of capitalism. It's Mh. It's it's great.

1095
00:40:01,994 --> 00:40:02,474
I love it.

1096
00:40:04,394 --> 00:40:06,967
And you would think that it would just

1097
00:40:06,967 --> 00:40:09,439
be limited... That that ancient role would be

1098
00:40:09,439 --> 00:40:10,476
limited to, like, you know,

1099
00:40:11,114 --> 00:40:13,666
Europe and, America. But here's the thing.

1100
00:40:14,544 --> 00:40:15,442
There is

1101
00:40:16,232 --> 00:40:17,977
a manga, and I'm dead series. It was

1102
00:40:17,977 --> 00:40:21,149
published in 2008. It's called aroma thurman.

1103
00:40:22,259 --> 00:40:23,710
It's written by,

1104
00:40:24,494 --> 00:40:27,507
a, woman named Maria Mi, and it it

1105
00:40:27,507 --> 00:40:29,490
is... At have you heard of it?

1106
00:40:30,442 --> 00:40:31,552
I I've heard of this Tv show.

1107
00:40:32,203 --> 00:40:34,908
But say that. Yes. It it was a

1108
00:40:34,908 --> 00:40:35,226
comic.

1109
00:40:35,942 --> 00:40:37,852
And, it was also a live action movie,

1110
00:40:38,012 --> 00:40:40,239
and it's an on netflix, I think. If

1111
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,164
if you can... Yeah I think you can

1112
00:40:42,164 --> 00:40:44,470
still see it. No. Mh. But, yeah, It...

1113
00:40:44,708 --> 00:40:46,856
The idea is is there is a,

1114
00:40:47,889 --> 00:40:49,161
architect in ancient Rome.

1115
00:40:50,610 --> 00:40:52,305
Who is tasked by

1116
00:40:53,478 --> 00:40:56,347
the emperor Had to build the magnificent bath

1117
00:40:56,347 --> 00:40:56,847
house

1118
00:40:57,318 --> 00:40:59,413
and he's he's absolutely

1119
00:40:59,791 --> 00:41:02,742
suffering for ideas, and he gets sucked into

1120
00:41:02,742 --> 00:41:03,539
a portal,

1121
00:41:04,736 --> 00:41:06,171
to modern day Japan.

1122
00:41:07,144 --> 00:41:08,525
Where he sees,

1123
00:41:09,144 --> 00:41:11,144
like, you know, modern Japanese bath houses and

1124
00:41:11,144 --> 00:41:12,985
then he goes back and he implements these

1125
00:41:12,985 --> 00:41:14,045
ideas, and it is

1126
00:41:14,598 --> 00:41:17,250
It is so weird, but it's so

1127
00:41:18,822 --> 00:41:21,452
interesting and it's, like, III

1128
00:41:21,452 --> 00:41:21,771
love it.

1129
00:41:22,580 --> 00:41:24,008
Like, it is is 1 of those wildly

1130
00:41:24,008 --> 00:41:25,833
and crazy ideas that... Mh.

1131
00:41:26,388 --> 00:41:28,291
You know, it it shouldn't work yet somehow

1132
00:41:28,291 --> 00:41:28,768
it does.

1133
00:41:29,418 --> 00:41:30,770
And it was popular enough to get a

1134
00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:33,236
live action movie and an anime. So, you

1135
00:41:33,236 --> 00:41:35,304
know? Yeah. It it's... It really did seem

1136
00:41:35,304 --> 00:41:35,782
to resume.

1137
00:41:36,911 --> 00:41:38,661
Yeah. In the anime that that's that

1138
00:41:39,377 --> 00:41:39,695
what

1139
00:41:40,411 --> 00:41:42,718
Roman or my Nova or whatever it was.

1140
00:41:43,196 --> 00:41:45,026
Yeah. Some connection of those words.

1141
00:41:45,758 --> 00:41:47,114
And I I watched a couple episodes. It's

1142
00:41:47,114 --> 00:41:49,050
at my video editors

1143
00:41:50,304 --> 00:41:51,660
recommendation. And I looked at the end, they

1144
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:53,175
had that the creator would come on. It

1145
00:41:53,175 --> 00:41:56,083
was like a informative documentary bit about Japanese.

1146
00:41:56,619 --> 00:41:57,735
You know, Like, and here's how it works

1147
00:41:57,735 --> 00:41:59,728
in Japan. Like, it was very kind of

1148
00:41:59,728 --> 00:42:01,801
a fundamental addition to, yeah. It was kind

1149
00:42:01,801 --> 00:42:04,367
of this like, odd ball about combination of

1150
00:42:04,367 --> 00:42:04,846
things. But,

1151
00:42:05,643 --> 00:42:07,797
but anyway, so, obviously, a huge variety of

1152
00:42:07,797 --> 00:42:08,674
adaptations, and

1153
00:42:09,552 --> 00:42:11,705
you know, 4 rays, I guess, into Roman

1154
00:42:11,705 --> 00:42:13,221
history from different cultures.

1155
00:42:14,112 --> 00:42:16,263
Absolutely. So for for a final question,

1156
00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:18,834
what do you think the future holds

1157
00:42:19,369 --> 00:42:22,556
for comics based in or around ancient history?

1158
00:42:23,289 --> 00:42:24,347
Yeah. So

1159
00:42:24,885 --> 00:42:26,901
I think what's... I think what's happening now

1160
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:27,859
is

1161
00:42:29,354 --> 00:42:30,871
you know, we we we had sort of,

1162
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:32,556
like, you know, the the the broad, you

1163
00:42:32,556 --> 00:42:35,019
know, big ideas, the broad, you know, you

1164
00:42:35,019 --> 00:42:35,917
know, the

1165
00:42:36,927 --> 00:42:38,730
the gods have been brought in. The,

1166
00:42:39,406 --> 00:42:41,077
But I think... And and, like, we've also

1167
00:42:41,077 --> 00:42:42,431
had, like you know, the broad strokes of,

1168
00:42:42,590 --> 00:42:44,659
like, the history and the culture being brought

1169
00:42:44,659 --> 00:42:47,378
in as well. And I think... What's happening

1170
00:42:47,378 --> 00:42:50,160
now is we have an entire generation of

1171
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,987
creators who grew up with this.

1172
00:42:53,179 --> 00:42:53,497
You know,

1173
00:42:54,309 --> 00:42:56,309
the the the classics may have been sn

1174
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:57,590
a hundred and 50 years ago, but they're

1175
00:42:57,590 --> 00:43:00,150
are a lot less sn now. Mh. And

1176
00:43:00,150 --> 00:43:00,950
they're are, you know,

1177
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:02,789
there there's this...

1178
00:43:05,042 --> 00:43:05,761
Sense of,

1179
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,876
popular enjoyment as well. Like here. This this

1180
00:43:08,876 --> 00:43:09,936
this isn't for

1181
00:43:11,128 --> 00:43:11,528
you know,

1182
00:43:13,286 --> 00:43:15,064
rich college case. This is for

1183
00:43:15,443 --> 00:43:17,041
everyone. And there's enough of it that's common

1184
00:43:17,041 --> 00:43:19,849
knowledge where people can be like, oh, like,

1185
00:43:19,929 --> 00:43:20,328
you know,

1186
00:43:21,284 --> 00:43:23,117
this exists, But, like, you know, let's let's

1187
00:43:23,117 --> 00:43:24,552
give it a twist and, you know, let's

1188
00:43:24,552 --> 00:43:26,226
let's make it, you know, you know,

1189
00:43:26,957 --> 00:43:28,548
let's let's make it a adapt to our

1190
00:43:28,548 --> 00:43:28,787
ideals.

1191
00:43:29,821 --> 00:43:30,537
1 of the big...

1192
00:43:31,253 --> 00:43:32,129
1 of the big,

1193
00:43:34,369 --> 00:43:35,978
stories that's, been

1194
00:43:36,350 --> 00:43:38,253
published in recent years is

1195
00:43:38,807 --> 00:43:39,758
there there there's a,

1196
00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:42,955
comic strip called Laura Olympus,

1197
00:43:43,593 --> 00:43:46,147
It got published on the line became insanely

1198
00:43:46,147 --> 00:43:46,626
popular,

1199
00:43:47,025 --> 00:43:48,461
and now it's being brought to print.

1200
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:51,681
What that is, it's a

1201
00:43:52,056 --> 00:43:53,885
modern re telling of,

1202
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:55,873
Per stephanie in Hades.

1203
00:43:56,429 --> 00:43:56,668
Mh.

1204
00:43:57,702 --> 00:43:58,202
But

1205
00:43:59,068 --> 00:44:01,607
like, there's this movement... Like, there's this movement

1206
00:44:01,607 --> 00:44:03,908
where, like, people are, like, you know, really

1207
00:44:03,908 --> 00:44:05,971
sort of examining the relationship and, like,

1208
00:44:06,621 --> 00:44:07,019
you know,

1209
00:44:08,449 --> 00:44:10,992
it's not for me to comment on, you

1210
00:44:10,992 --> 00:44:12,286
know, how appropriate

1211
00:44:13,375 --> 00:44:14,408
that event was.

1212
00:44:15,379 --> 00:44:16,657
But there are people who are, like, you

1213
00:44:16,657 --> 00:44:18,175
know, well, what if we made it so

1214
00:44:18,175 --> 00:44:20,034
that Per stephanie and Hades don't

1215
00:44:21,131 --> 00:44:22,704
hate each other. Like, what if what are

1216
00:44:22,825 --> 00:44:24,425
what if it was actually a loving and

1217
00:44:24,425 --> 00:44:26,664
caring relationship. You know, let let's let's explore

1218
00:44:26,664 --> 00:44:26,744
that.

1219
00:44:28,425 --> 00:44:28,925
So,

1220
00:44:29,224 --> 00:44:31,385
you know, the the idea of taking these...

1221
00:44:32,518 --> 00:44:34,828
Trapping and taking these ideas and taking these

1222
00:44:34,828 --> 00:44:37,297
themes and sort of making it that making

1223
00:44:37,297 --> 00:44:39,369
it our own. Right you know, putting our

1224
00:44:39,369 --> 00:44:41,222
own spin on it, like, you know, like

1225
00:44:41,934 --> 00:44:43,452
the Romans did with the Greeks, you know,

1226
00:44:43,612 --> 00:44:45,871
like, you know, like, our

1227
00:44:47,049 --> 00:44:49,766
you know, great great grandparents did with you

1228
00:44:49,766 --> 00:44:49,926
know,

1229
00:44:51,860 --> 00:44:52,180
with

1230
00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:54,980
you know, the law and with you know,

1231
00:44:55,059 --> 00:44:55,940
the culture and oh,

1232
00:44:57,059 --> 00:44:58,980
law and the culture. And, you know, Mh.

1233
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:00,760
What we're doing with our personal

1234
00:45:01,474 --> 00:45:03,392
feelings and ideas. And also,

1235
00:45:04,111 --> 00:45:05,469
if you'll permit me to toot my own

1236
00:45:05,469 --> 00:45:08,107
horn, going back to my hook. But, of

1237
00:45:08,107 --> 00:45:10,699
course. Available on Kickstarter now, system.

1238
00:45:12,356 --> 00:45:15,253
The reason why I wrote it is because,

1239
00:45:16,751 --> 00:45:18,915
you know, I... As someone who grew up

1240
00:45:18,915 --> 00:45:21,536
in this. And as someone who enjoys studying

1241
00:45:21,536 --> 00:45:21,695
it,

1242
00:45:22,411 --> 00:45:23,999
even though my Latin and Greek are terrible.

1243
00:45:26,399 --> 00:45:28,474
1 of the things I've noticed is that

1244
00:45:28,474 --> 00:45:30,151
the way we view,

1245
00:45:32,786 --> 00:45:34,701
greet... Ancient greece in rome in popular culture

1246
00:45:34,701 --> 00:45:35,441
is very

1247
00:45:35,833 --> 00:45:36,232
narrow.

1248
00:45:37,666 --> 00:45:39,817
Whenever we have a movie or whenever we

1249
00:45:39,817 --> 00:45:41,991
have a Tv show, it's always the same

1250
00:45:42,367 --> 00:45:45,653
people, the same themes, the same ideas on

1251
00:45:45,653 --> 00:45:46,770
power and control,

1252
00:45:47,248 --> 00:45:48,286
and that's great.

1253
00:45:48,844 --> 00:45:49,722
That's awesome,

1254
00:45:50,121 --> 00:45:51,572
but it's like come on, guys. There's was

1255
00:45:51,572 --> 00:45:53,167
there there was more to this than, you

1256
00:45:53,167 --> 00:45:54,603
know, the more to this than Julius a

1257
00:45:54,682 --> 00:45:55,001
Caesar.

1258
00:45:56,836 --> 00:45:58,750
So, you know, a big reason why I

1259
00:45:58,750 --> 00:46:00,186
wrote this comment and a big reason why...

1260
00:46:00,425 --> 00:46:03,476
Come I love the toll stone Youtube Youtube

1261
00:46:03,476 --> 00:46:04,615
channel is because

1262
00:46:05,154 --> 00:46:07,072
it takes a step back and it looks

1263
00:46:07,072 --> 00:46:08,271
at, like, you know, oh, let's look at

1264
00:46:08,271 --> 00:46:10,041
like, the Mundane small stuff. You know, what

1265
00:46:10,041 --> 00:46:11,075
was what was it like to go to

1266
00:46:11,075 --> 00:46:12,347
the dentist? You know,

1267
00:46:13,460 --> 00:46:14,733
yeah, how do the romans take care of

1268
00:46:14,733 --> 00:46:15,369
their trash?

1269
00:46:16,403 --> 00:46:18,329
You know, that... You know, how did a

1270
00:46:18,409 --> 00:46:20,247
Roman feast work? I, how, you know, how

1271
00:46:20,247 --> 00:46:21,685
did everyday life work as well.

1272
00:46:22,324 --> 00:46:22,824
So

1273
00:46:24,482 --> 00:46:25,521
there there's there's...

1274
00:46:27,131 --> 00:46:29,516
So so basically information, what I'm saying is

1275
00:46:29,516 --> 00:46:31,027
that we we are were...

1276
00:46:32,777 --> 00:46:34,708
The the way we... Our our over,

1277
00:46:35,083 --> 00:46:37,968
our relationship with the classics is starting to

1278
00:46:37,968 --> 00:46:38,288
change.

1279
00:46:39,087 --> 00:46:40,786
And we're making it

1280
00:46:41,164 --> 00:46:43,162
our own and we're bringing it into the

1281
00:46:43,162 --> 00:46:45,160
model and we're we're we're sort of using

1282
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,112
it. To communicate

1283
00:46:47,650 --> 00:46:50,704
our thoughts and our ideals of how

1284
00:46:51,242 --> 00:46:52,997
things are and, you know, how we think

1285
00:46:52,997 --> 00:46:54,056
the world should be

1286
00:46:54,527 --> 00:46:56,117
So... And, you know, that's starting to show

1287
00:46:56,117 --> 00:46:57,150
up in comics as well.

1288
00:46:58,580 --> 00:46:59,932
Oh, I think that's great to be honest.

1289
00:47:00,090 --> 00:47:02,078
I think that for tradition to survive, it

1290
00:47:02,078 --> 00:47:02,952
has to be a living 1.

1291
00:47:03,841 --> 00:47:06,622
And that only works if people do try

1292
00:47:06,622 --> 00:47:09,722
to... This creative translation of a story into

1293
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,106
a new civilization, a new era, a new,

1294
00:47:12,438 --> 00:47:14,581
frame of mind. I, yeah. New a new

1295
00:47:14,581 --> 00:47:18,151
epoch. Yeah. A new. Yes. Yeah. And I

1296
00:47:18,151 --> 00:47:19,579
wish you all of best of luck to

1297
00:47:19,579 --> 00:47:19,738
it.

1298
00:47:21,102 --> 00:47:23,007
Everyone listening again, this has been Matthew Blair,

1299
00:47:23,404 --> 00:47:25,468
a creator of Roman romano Magic k, which

1300
00:47:25,468 --> 00:47:27,056
has been put Told Stone, I don't which

1301
00:47:27,056 --> 00:47:28,539
to twitch I wish all the best. So

1302
00:47:29,219 --> 00:47:31,057
And, Matthew, thank you so much for joining

1303
00:47:31,057 --> 00:47:33,214
us today. Oh, thank you for having me.

1304
00:47:33,693 --> 00:47:35,691
But, of course, and everyone listening. Thanks for

1305
00:47:35,691 --> 00:47:36,090
tuning in.