1 00:00:03,980 --> 00:00:08,040 For those of you out there that we were trying to distinguish between feeling 2 00:00:08,140 --> 00:00:09,520 secure and being secure. 3 00:00:09,550 --> 00:00:12,760 This is a good one because if you are just feeling secure, 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,360 then you think I don't need influence. I'm confident I know what I mean. 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,160 I know what it I, I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. 6 00:00:18,220 --> 00:00:20,200 And I don't need somebody else telling me what to do. 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,280 I don't need somebody else telling me how to raise my child. 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,960 I don't need somebody else. Fill in the blank. 9 00:00:26,740 --> 00:00:28,560 If that's what you're saying to yourself, 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,120 I want you to realize that that is you in a protective, 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,930 insecure state because a secure way of relating and a secure attachment, 12 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,210 Juan says, I need influence. I need others. 13 00:00:39,780 --> 00:00:43,850 There are a lot of people smarter than me and there's a lot of people that I can 14 00:00:43,850 --> 00:00:46,960 help. And that is a secure way of connection. 15 00:00:49,150 --> 00:00:53,480 Welcome to Therapist Uncensored, building on decades of professional experience. 16 00:00:53,480 --> 00:00:55,480 This podcast tackles neurobiology, 17 00:00:55,580 --> 00:00:59,520 modern attachment and more in an honest way that's helpful in healing humans. 18 00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:03,640 Your session begins now with Dr. Ann Kelly and Sue Marriott. 19 00:01:11,220 --> 00:01:13,240 Hey, we'd like to thank a partner for our show. 20 00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:18,440 I've been using AG one daily now for over six months, which is amazing for me. 21 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:20,320 I forget things a lot, 22 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:25,280 but I really make an effort to take the AG one regularly because it gives me all 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,400 the good things. You know, 24 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,720 how you keep hearing about your gut biome and how important it is to all kinds 25 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,480 of things about your health, including mood and stress. Well, 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,480 AG one is my answer to that 'cause I wasn't sure what to do about it. 27 00:01:38,260 --> 00:01:42,160 It has all the quality vitamins, whole foods sourced, superfoods, 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,040 probiotics and adaptogens, 29 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:46,960 which calm down your overeager stress response system, 30 00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:49,760 which you know that we would be into . 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,240 I like that the ingredients are tested by a third party to ensure that what they 32 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:54,240 say is what you get. 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,920 I feel good about recommending that you try it or encouraging you to keep taking 34 00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:00,280 it. If you're already on board, 35 00:02:00,660 --> 00:02:05,600 go to athletic greens.com/therapist uncensored and be sure and use that 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,040 link because for our listeners, 37 00:02:07,380 --> 00:02:11,680 you'll get a free year supply of vitamin B and free travel packs for you to be 38 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,800 able to take the superpower on the road with you. 39 00:02:14,260 --> 00:02:18,440 That's athletic greens.com/therapist uncensored. 40 00:02:18,580 --> 00:02:22,480 Hey everyone, welcome back to Therapist Uncensored. I am Anne Kelly and. 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,920 I'm Sue Marriott. And we. 42 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:28,920 Realize that we have done an episode on the different types 43 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:32,680 of insecure attachment protection strategies, 44 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:37,480 but we've never actually talked directly or done a whole one on what is secure 45 00:02:38,010 --> 00:02:38,843 attachment. 46 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,000 I like to call it secure protective strategies and connective strategies, 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,160 but what does secure attachment look like? 48 00:02:45,540 --> 00:02:49,520 So we decided to dedicate a whole episode to security, which is great. 49 00:02:49,590 --> 00:02:53,240 Yeah, 'cause it's all bad news. Always. Constantly. Yeah, 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,600 we're always talking . So this'll be a, 51 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,520 this'll be a feel good episode because this is true that when we talk 52 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,040 about security, it primes security. It's true. 53 00:03:02,380 --> 00:03:03,010 So. 54 00:03:03,010 --> 00:03:03,843 Let's feel good together. 55 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,680 I like it. And as we think about what creates security, it gives us something. 56 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:12,320 Many of you out there probably came from the kind of background where you have a 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,800 secure background and you have a secure attachment. And some of us, I don't. 58 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:16,880 Think that's true. . 59 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,280 . Well more the majority. 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,000 I think everybody listening to this podcast probably has some color in their 61 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:23,840 history. . 62 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:25,500 Well that's true, 63 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:29,200 but we can have lots of color in our backgrounds and still have a secure base, 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:29,500 right? 65 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:34,240 You can have a secure base with pockets of insecurity or you could have a 66 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,160 background where you kinda live more in your protective red or your 67 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,960 more protective blue or tie dye. But let's talk about what security looks like. 68 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:45,920 What is a secure attachment about? 69 00:03:46,620 --> 00:03:48,360 So when Anne's mentioning the red and the blue, 70 00:03:48,740 --> 00:03:52,080 the way that we talk about attachment is we're bringing in out of the research 71 00:03:52,210 --> 00:03:57,040 categories of insecure and secure or anything that's a box 72 00:03:57,230 --> 00:04:02,080 because human beings are complex and even if you fit in that box, 73 00:04:02,740 --> 00:04:07,160 it doesn't matter because you're not always there. So if I'm dismissing, 74 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:11,040 I'm not always dismissive. So we like to talk about it on a continuum. 75 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:16,200 And we use colors that sort of represent the feel of the defense. 76 00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:20,120 So she mentioned red is the upregulated, like more anxious. Preoccupied. 77 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,320 Means that you've kind of learned that you have to kind of, 78 00:04:22,670 --> 00:04:26,960 your nervous system learns. It has to stay on alert and emotionally aware, 79 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,480 kind of emotionally intense. That's where your protective system goes. 80 00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:31,800 When you hit stress. 81 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:37,400 You hyper activate on the red side and then on blue you hypo activates 82 00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:41,240 your attachment system turns down. So that's why we, it's blue, it's cool. 83 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,440 , . So we've done podcasts on both of those. 84 00:04:44,060 --> 00:04:46,600 So green she mentioned, which is the secure, 85 00:04:46,940 --> 00:04:48,720 and then tie dye she also mentioned, 86 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,160 which is the folks that don't fit quite in those, the others. 87 00:04:52,220 --> 00:04:56,480 And that's such a complicated conversation around what used to be called 88 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,080 disorganized. It's the least understood category. We call it tie eye. 89 00:05:01,270 --> 00:05:04,840 It's a mix of things. A mix of strategies. And we don't live in tie eye, 90 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,840 but sometimes we can get disorganized. And. 91 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:10,520 What's important about not living, including secure 'cause. 92 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,920 We're gonna talk about green and secure today. 93 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:16,160 And we call it green because it's kind of a ghost state. 94 00:05:16,190 --> 00:05:17,440 It's more of our open state. 95 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:22,800 But these parts of our systems get activated mostly during stress 96 00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:26,120 and stress when our attachment system feels at threat. 97 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:29,880 So we don't typically live there. So this is like, 98 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,520 you might find yourself living in more of a secure place, 99 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,160 but when you get activated you end up leaning red or blue. 100 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:41,320 Or you might find that your history has been such that you kind of primarily 101 00:05:41,580 --> 00:05:43,760 remain more in one color or the next. 102 00:05:44,340 --> 00:05:47,840 So that's what you're meaning when you say we don't just live in one or the 103 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:51,200 other and different relationships bring out different things. 104 00:05:51,610 --> 00:05:51,960 Right. 105 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,040 And that's one of the cool things about the spectrum that we talk about is we've 106 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,440 got the map on the spectrum, 107 00:05:56,570 --> 00:06:01,120 which is where we live kind of more in concrete patterns. So let's say that I'm, 108 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,200 I live quote or I rest, 109 00:06:03,820 --> 00:06:07,200 my nervous system rests more blue where I'm a little bit more zipped up, 110 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,360 a little bit more independent. But when I get upset, it doesn't mean I go blue. 111 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,680 I might go more blue, but I also might go red, I might go tie D, 112 00:06:14,870 --> 00:06:18,520 hopefully I'm staying in the green. So yeah, there's a lot of flexibility. 113 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,640 There's states and traits. So living in something, 114 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,600 what we don't really live in it, but like, um, our, 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,720 our more persistent pattern is a represented by a map on the spectrum. 116 00:06:29,220 --> 00:06:31,040 And then the spectrum itself is the states. 117 00:06:31,340 --> 00:06:35,800 And so green as a map or as a state looks like what? 118 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:40,760 So that's when our early learning and our early 119 00:06:40,830 --> 00:06:45,720 experiences have generally led us to believe that our 120 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:47,760 environment is gonna be there for us. 121 00:06:48,380 --> 00:06:52,920 The people that are caretaking us are gonna be there. They're trustworthy. 122 00:06:53,100 --> 00:06:54,400 We can kind of rely on them. 123 00:06:55,190 --> 00:06:58,280 They're there enough for us to feel safe, 124 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,000 but not so much that we don't develop our own sense of our own self, 125 00:07:02,060 --> 00:07:04,840 our own being, our own agency over time. 126 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:10,080 So a secure way of relating, a secure way of attachment says, man, 127 00:07:10,140 --> 00:07:12,520 my world's pretty trustworthy and so am I. 128 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,280 I mean I used to joke about that secure attachment was like Bigfoot, you know, 129 00:07:17,550 --> 00:07:19,480 everybody reports about it and stuff like that. 130 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,160 But have you ever really seen one? But that actually isn't true. 131 00:07:22,790 --> 00:07:26,200 Generally more than 50% of people will test as secure. 132 00:07:26,430 --> 00:07:29,200 It's always so confusing to talk about because the testing is so different, 133 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,240 right? Self-report is one thing versus the unconscious limbic, you know, 134 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,280 developmental attachment. But especially if you're not very blue, 135 00:07:39,070 --> 00:07:42,680 then generally you're probably more secure than you think you are. 136 00:07:43,060 --> 00:07:46,000 And that pans out so that if you tend to go red, 137 00:07:46,460 --> 00:07:49,360 you know that you get preoccupied, you know that you're in distress, 138 00:07:49,380 --> 00:07:53,000 you know that you have issues and you might even think it's worse than it is. 139 00:07:53,660 --> 00:07:55,320 And if you tend to lean green, 140 00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:59,680 you will probably be aware that you dysregulate and that you do dumb things and 141 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,480 that you act like a jerk sometimes and stuff like that. 142 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,440 Sometimes it's hard for us to see our greenness . Right? 143 00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:05,310 Right. 144 00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:06,800 Then if you tend to lean blue, 145 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:11,080 you will likely overestimate your security and your green zone. 146 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:13,440 Those would be taken with a little bit of a grain of salt. 147 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:17,200 Well, and that's been shown by research that's not just Ann and Schisms, 148 00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:21,040 that if you run in the blue that you're more likely to idolize some of your 149 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,400 childhood rearing and to overestimate your sense of security. 150 00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:27,720 And so that's why in this episode, 151 00:08:28,420 --> 00:08:32,080 we want all of you to kinda listen to what really constitutes a secure 152 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:32,880 attachment. 153 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,800 'cause it might surprise you because having a secure attachment base is not the 154 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,560 same thing as feeling secure. It's not confidence, it's not thinking, you know, 155 00:08:42,710 --> 00:08:47,320 more than everybody else around you. So that's what, it's not what it is. 156 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:52,360 It's the ability to maintain connections, deep fulfilling connections. 157 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,100 So somebody has a secure base, 158 00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:59,080 they rely on other people and they feel confidence in themselves. 159 00:08:59,540 --> 00:09:03,120 So if somebody feels so confident in themselves that they can't rely on other 160 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:03,860 people, 161 00:09:03,860 --> 00:09:08,230 that's likely means that their nervous system is actually not in this place of 162 00:09:08,230 --> 00:09:11,870 trust. So a secure connection, a secure attachment, 163 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:13,710 trust other people, 164 00:09:13,900 --> 00:09:18,390 they trust themselves and they feel comfortable having closeness. 165 00:09:18,530 --> 00:09:19,470 That's a real key. 166 00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:22,150 Yeah, that's a good one. You know, 167 00:09:22,150 --> 00:09:25,790 the word that comes to my mind with security is the word integration. 168 00:09:26,650 --> 00:09:29,590 And Dan Siegel talks about this from a neurological standpoint, 169 00:09:30,050 --> 00:09:32,750 but integration of thoughts and feelings, 170 00:09:33,380 --> 00:09:38,070 integration of brain and body integration of top of the brain and bottom of the 171 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:41,750 brain, left of the brain, left hemisphere, right hemisphere, limbic, 172 00:09:42,010 --> 00:09:45,030 higher cortical. The idea being that there's a balance. 173 00:09:45,590 --> 00:09:47,950 Anne and I have talked a lot about the connection and protection systems, 174 00:09:48,490 --> 00:09:51,150 the connection system being the green stuff that we're talking about, 175 00:09:51,210 --> 00:09:53,990 the protection system being the other. We need both, 176 00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:57,510 but we need them to cooperate. . We don't want our protection system, 177 00:09:58,170 --> 00:09:58,510 you know, 178 00:09:58,510 --> 00:10:03,390 elbowing over our goodwill to protect us when we don't want it 179 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:07,270 overreacting. Or once we do get safe after we're threatened, 180 00:10:07,410 --> 00:10:09,710 we want the green to come back online pretty quickly. 181 00:10:09,890 --> 00:10:13,990 So basically security means that there's a cooperation and integration between 182 00:10:13,990 --> 00:10:16,950 our protection system and our connection system. How's that? 183 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:19,430 That was great. I loved it. . 184 00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:23,670 Look, I a, I asked for feedback. isn't that, isn't that secure? 185 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:26,310 That's a sign of secure actually. 186 00:10:26,890 --> 00:10:29,830 And you gave and you gave a compliment. , that's also a sign of secure. 187 00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:32,270 . That's so true. Actually. 188 00:10:32,270 --> 00:10:35,230 That is literally a sign that you're kind of in your protective state. 189 00:10:35,330 --> 00:10:39,070 If you can't tell somebody you did a good job or well, 190 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,190 let's put it in a sign of security. I keep going to what's red and what's blue. 191 00:10:43,390 --> 00:10:45,510 I mean, I need to-ing I know it's so easy to do. 192 00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:48,630 So let's say a sign of security, a sign of a, 193 00:10:48,790 --> 00:10:52,910 a secure attachment is that the connection to somebody else doesn't feel 194 00:10:53,150 --> 00:10:57,590 threatening. So that means being able to give them a sense of yourself, 195 00:10:57,590 --> 00:11:01,830 giving them a compliment, being able to join feels more natural. 196 00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:03,430 It's not threatening. Now, 197 00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:05,950 intellectually it can sound like I like to join people, 198 00:11:06,030 --> 00:11:09,670 I go out and have beers with my friends. Right? The question is, 199 00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:11,003 are you joining? 200 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,510 Think about the idea of joining means like somebody's in there having a, 201 00:11:14,510 --> 00:11:18,710 telling a success that they have. What does it make you feel inside? 202 00:11:19,140 --> 00:11:21,150 It's natural sometimes to feel a little bit of jealousy, 203 00:11:21,850 --> 00:11:24,470 but when you're in a secure base of attachment, 204 00:11:24,650 --> 00:11:27,670 you can really feel joy for the other person and you can join them. You can say, 205 00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:29,950 that is amazing. You did such a great job. 206 00:11:30,610 --> 00:11:34,750 It doesn't hit a threat button where you're ready to tell your own story before 207 00:11:34,750 --> 00:11:36,150 they finish telling theirs. 208 00:11:36,370 --> 00:11:39,190 So a sign of integration is that you can hold yourself, 209 00:11:39,610 --> 00:11:44,510 you own sense of self-worth while somebody else is experiencing theirs. 210 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:45,590 It's not a competition. 211 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,800 Oh, I think you said that so well, thank you. 212 00:11:48,950 --> 00:11:49,783 Like. 213 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,880 . I wasn't even joking. I I actually really did mean that. 214 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,600 I thought that came out really great. 215 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:56,873 . 216 00:11:57,870 --> 00:12:00,520 What I would just add to that is kind of the other way too. 217 00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:04,880 So I think this idea of joining is really important because there is a way that 218 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,840 you have to set yourself aside for a second. 219 00:12:07,780 --> 00:12:10,880 So let's say you're telling me about Covid. Oh my god, I got Covid. 220 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:15,120 And you begin to talk about it. And if I say, man, 221 00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:19,400 when I had covid da da da da or I've never had covid or, or you know, 222 00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:21,840 John had covid and he like, 223 00:12:22,060 --> 00:12:25,720 if I command the attention and pull it back to myself, 224 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:27,280 that's not joining. 225 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:31,320 But what would be joining would be you're saying you have covid. 226 00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:35,270 And so then I stick with you and I might say, oh my God, how do you feel? 227 00:12:35,530 --> 00:12:37,870 How do you think you got it? What are you doing? What do you need? 228 00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:40,230 Like in other words, things keep going back and keep going back. 229 00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:44,670 And I try to help and build out her narrative, but I do that freely. 230 00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:48,750 Like it's not hurting me. Or even if I can't wait to tell her how bad I had it, 231 00:12:49,130 --> 00:12:52,990 I'm able to hold that so that I've joined her and given her the experience of 232 00:12:52,990 --> 00:12:54,830 feeling heard and feeling cared for. 233 00:12:55,010 --> 00:12:57,350 That's perfect. Let's talk about that just for one second. 234 00:12:57,450 --> 00:13:01,230 In terms of neural integration, 'cause you just mentioned the word integration. 235 00:13:01,460 --> 00:13:03,990 What does that have to do with what you just said? And that is, 236 00:13:04,210 --> 00:13:06,430 for me to sit and hold your story, 237 00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:11,910 I have to hold what is might be active in my body that if I don't have attention 238 00:13:12,050 --> 00:13:12,690 I'm dropped. 239 00:13:12,690 --> 00:13:17,030 Or if I don't ma like there's all sorts of insecurity that could be coming up in 240 00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:18,150 me that I don't recognize, 241 00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:20,750 which makes me dominate and take over and tell my own story. 242 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:24,990 An integration of this is you exist and I exist in the same light. 243 00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:27,790 So when you are talking, I actually, 244 00:13:27,790 --> 00:13:31,950 my body feels relaxed and able to join you because I'm not in protection, 245 00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:32,803 I'm not in fear. 246 00:13:33,250 --> 00:13:36,390 And so I wanna help people feel that in their body as they're talking. 247 00:13:36,650 --> 00:13:38,670 If somebody's talking, do you feel activated? 248 00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:40,150 Do you feel distracted with your thoughts? 249 00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:43,870 Because if it's really hard to do that, 250 00:13:43,930 --> 00:13:47,790 it might be sign a sign that you're having a hard time staying in your more 251 00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:49,390 secure related place. 252 00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:53,190 Like the other side of that would be like you're, you know, 253 00:13:53,190 --> 00:13:54,110 we're talking about domination. 254 00:13:54,170 --> 00:13:57,270 The other would be that I'm gonna ask questions and ask questions and ask 255 00:13:57,390 --> 00:13:58,270 questions and ask questions. Oh, good point. 256 00:13:58,370 --> 00:14:01,270 So that I don't have to talk about myself. And that when they, 257 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,950 with the attention turns and everyone, every, 258 00:14:03,970 --> 00:14:06,270 all eyes are on me and I'm supposed to share something. 259 00:14:06,270 --> 00:14:07,270 Mm-hmm that, 260 00:14:07,270 --> 00:14:12,070 that's very frightening because that I have learned to kind of get 261 00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:15,510 small and disappear and make other people big and make other people feel good. 262 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,470 Again, we're not trying to say kind of how that that's, 263 00:14:18,970 --> 00:14:23,390 but the idea would be when the attention turned to me going back to secure is 264 00:14:23,390 --> 00:14:24,270 that, you know, 265 00:14:24,270 --> 00:14:27,590 it's not like I'm not gonna feel awkward or that I might not get squirmy, 266 00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:32,430 but the idea is that the feeling is more manageable and then I can take the mic 267 00:14:32,530 --> 00:14:33,030 so to speak, 268 00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:36,790 or I can take the time or I can take the attention or I can take my turn. 269 00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:40,550 That's actually another good one is turn taking that there's a natural turn 270 00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:41,630 taking in conversation. 271 00:14:42,130 --> 00:14:46,590 And the turn taking is about being able to be sensitive and attuned. Right? 272 00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:51,720 A big sign of secure attachment is the ability to be attuned to others, 273 00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:55,960 attuned to self and attuned to others. So when you're turn taking, 274 00:14:56,460 --> 00:15:01,360 you're able to be attuned to their needs and your body feels alive and alert 275 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,560 for them. It's not just holding your breath. 'cause sometimes in turn taking, 276 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,800 we're holding our breath, okay, you take a turn, we're just. 277 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,000 Waiting for a turn. . Exactly. 278 00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:11,560 We're turn taking, but if you're holding your breath waiting for your turn, 279 00:15:11,820 --> 00:15:15,440 it probably means that you're not sort of completely present. 280 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:16,840 So a secure attachment, 281 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:21,920 you're able to stay because your body feels more trust, 282 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:23,920 you're living more in your connection system. 283 00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:27,240 That's what secure attachment's about. So if I'm in my connection system, 284 00:15:27,710 --> 00:15:30,560 then I'm actually interested. I'm not just turn taking, 285 00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:34,240 I'm actually interested in what you're saying is lighting me up. 286 00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:38,040 It's making me think of things I've not thought about or I'm learning about you. 287 00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:42,640 And so the desire to know somebody, the desire to tune in without, 288 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:43,473 like you said before, 289 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,360 disappearing is a sign that we're in our secure attached self. 290 00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:53,160 Let's say you're going on and on or you're saying something really big and I 291 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,250 notice that I begin to feel envy or say I notice disinterest. 292 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,610 Like I'm like, oh my god, she's going on and on . 293 00:16:01,150 --> 00:16:03,930 So I don't wanna make secure like Pollyanna. Oh good point. 294 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,130 Keep going. 'cause that's so. 295 00:16:05,130 --> 00:16:06,530 True, right? It's not Pollyanna. 296 00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:11,050 Because maybe you're the secure attached one and I am going on and on and on and 297 00:16:11,230 --> 00:16:12,290 on. You're really aware of that. 298 00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:14,730 And and I'm aware and but, 299 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:19,750 but rather than either letting myself get flooded or interrupting 300 00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:20,630 and just cutting, you know, 301 00:16:20,630 --> 00:16:24,470 just stopping the situation basically I have more bandwidth. 302 00:16:24,950 --> 00:16:29,670 I can think God Anne's really excited about this , she's going on and on. 303 00:16:29,740 --> 00:16:30,590 What is going on? 304 00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:33,230 Like I can have that conversation in my mind because you also have. 305 00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:33,750 Curiosity. 306 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:35,990 Which would then Exactly, which would help me amplify. 307 00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:37,150 Like if you're really excited about something, 308 00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:38,390 then I'm gonna ask you even more questions. Like, 309 00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:41,670 I'm gonna help you show off this beautiful thing that you're talking about. 310 00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:45,750 I'm paying attention to what's going on with you that you're going on and on. 311 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:49,150 But I'm also paying attention to me like by being curious about you, 312 00:16:49,150 --> 00:16:50,670 that is taking care of me to some degree. 313 00:16:51,290 --> 00:16:54,070 Or let's just say you're just being narcissistic and taking over the 314 00:16:54,070 --> 00:16:56,350 conversation . And I notice I'm like, 315 00:16:56,350 --> 00:16:59,390 oh she's really not tending to me at all. Again, 316 00:16:59,390 --> 00:17:03,230 we wanna more talk about states. If I'm in a more secure state of mind, 317 00:17:04,060 --> 00:17:08,750 then I'll be more likely to be able to respond either by whatever I wanna do may 318 00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:11,750 do. I have the energy to push in. Uh, let's see, 319 00:17:11,890 --> 00:17:15,070 I'm gonna insert myself and really begin talking about myself. 320 00:17:15,070 --> 00:17:16,510 So it'll give her something to ask me about. 321 00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:21,910 Basically I'll have a range of ways to take up my fair share of the talking 322 00:17:21,910 --> 00:17:24,790 time and not expect her to, you know, 323 00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:27,590 not be waiting and keep going to the back of the line. 'cause she keeps talking. 324 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:31,230 Well that's allowing myself to be dominated when I'm in a secure state. 325 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,790 Maybe I even get mad, maybe I'm pissed, 326 00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:36,430 but that doesn't mean I'm not in a secure state. 327 00:17:36,610 --> 00:17:40,670 It means I'm noticing my feelings and then thinking about what to do about them 328 00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:43,310 and how to best respond rather than react. 329 00:17:43,490 --> 00:17:45,070 Oh, I love that. Well you know, 330 00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:48,430 you keep bringing up secure state and we're talking about a secure attachment. 331 00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:51,520 I like that. Let's talk about how those relate. Because 332 00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:57,680 we mentioned 50% more than 50% out there likely have a secure attachment 333 00:17:57,790 --> 00:18:00,720 base and others don't. But that doesn't mean. 334 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,920 Right, depending on the population, depending on the country, 335 00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:04,400 all the things but Right. Yeah, 336 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,320 there's a lot of securely attached people that will score even on, you know, 337 00:18:08,420 --> 00:18:11,520 the AI and the ones that look at the unconscious. 338 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,680 So if I have a secure base, 339 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,880 that doesn't mean I'm always in a secure relating moment. 340 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,680 I could like be having a really crappy day or a month or I've been in a 341 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,160 relationship for a period of time that my body's completely activated in more of 342 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:23,993 a blue red, 343 00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:28,920 or maybe I don't live as much in the green, 344 00:18:29,180 --> 00:18:31,840 but I can be in a secure relating moment. 345 00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:34,480 So that's why we love to talk about the continuum, 346 00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:39,440 both state and attachment base because no matter 347 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,440 where we live in our more embedded attachment strategy, 348 00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:49,350 we can always work to relate in a more secure way. Every day, 349 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,110 every moment. And as we do, 350 00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:55,750 we do actually light up our more secure related attachment style. 351 00:18:55,770 --> 00:18:59,150 We can move it, we can become less red, less blue, 352 00:18:59,210 --> 00:19:03,870 and more green in our overall attachment strategies as we age. 353 00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:07,030 The more we engage in secure relating ways of being. 354 00:19:07,490 --> 00:19:12,230 And you don't even need therapy. You know, like really good relationships. 355 00:19:13,030 --> 00:19:16,640 There's lots of ways to move your map towards green. Many, many ways. 356 00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:21,600 And another thing I was thinking was just going back for a minute and 357 00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:24,800 some of the conditions that promote security, 358 00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:29,320 that typically kids that end up with a secure map, 359 00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:34,000 or we might call it internal working model or a pattern of security in their 360 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,200 nervous system and integration, 361 00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:40,080 typically have had parents that often are secure themselves or have done a lot 362 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,880 of work to earn it to themselves or that they've just learned the 363 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,240 skills. 'cause you can have a secure child even if you're not secure. 364 00:19:48,290 --> 00:19:49,320 Isn't that great news? That. 365 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:50,200 Is great news. Yeah. 366 00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:53,200 Yeah. But they typically will be responsive. 367 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:56,400 First thing is they'll be protective. That's the very first thing. 368 00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:59,640 They'll be communicative, they'll be available, 369 00:20:00,350 --> 00:20:01,800 they'll be attuned. 370 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,080 You're talking about the parenting, um, promotes, I'm talking. 371 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,680 About the parent promotes, right? That promotes right attunement, 372 00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:09,360 which means accurate attunement. 373 00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:13,240 So instead of the child picks up a guitar and you know, 374 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,000 I take the guitar to show them how great of a guitar player I am. 375 00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:18,720 That's not attunement. Even though you think, oh look, 376 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,360 I'm playing it with my kid with the guitar. 377 00:20:20,380 --> 00:20:22,880 What's attunement is that the kid wanted to play the guitar. 378 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,400 I remember when you were playing the violin with our niece, 379 00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:31,560 our niece's niece, no, our niece's child who, what would that be? 380 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,200 A second niece? Anyway, 381 00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:38,080 you were so good at meeting her where she was, even though you knew how to play. 382 00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:42,250 And she would pick it up like I was like cringing that like she's picking up 383 00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:44,690 this nice instrument and she was young, you know what I mean? 384 00:20:44,690 --> 00:20:49,360 And like banging it around and stuff and you were just letting her do it and 385 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,440 letting her kind of struggle with it and letting her find the bow and letting 386 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,960 her find the strings. That's attunement. What I was doing was not attunement, 387 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,680 , I was feeling more protective of the, of the violin. Um, not, 388 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,120 I mean, not really. I was so happy that you were able to do that. 389 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:07,120 Hopefully if I had been alone, I would've been right there with you. 390 00:21:07,540 --> 00:21:11,560 But you already had that part down. But anyways, uh, soothed, protected, 391 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:13,810 being attuned. The, uh, oh, 392 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:18,450 the other really big part of promoting security is promoting the 393 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,530 mind of the child separate from your own. So it's not just closeness, 394 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,970 it's also when the child gets ready to be put down, you put them down. 395 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,050 Even when the infant looks away, you don't force them to look at you. You, 396 00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:34,410 you let them take a break in their eye with their eyes and their face. 397 00:21:35,030 --> 00:21:38,050 But the child is, you know, wanting a little alone time. 398 00:21:38,110 --> 00:21:40,490 If you're lonely then you've gotta just deal with your loneliness. 399 00:21:40,610 --> 00:21:44,570 I remember one time I looked over the crib at my sleeping child 400 00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:50,410 and I literally thought he wants me to pick him up , 401 00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:55,050 which is re absurd, right? Because he's asleep, he's happy, 402 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,170 like don't bother him. And so I was able to catch, no, I want to pick him up. 403 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,770 This is my desire, not his desire. So that's an example of, you know, like, 404 00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:06,650 okay, if I had just picked him up and thought he needed to be picked up, 405 00:22:06,650 --> 00:22:07,850 you know, we can exaggerate that. 406 00:22:07,930 --> 00:22:11,130 I mean we could extrapolate that into other ways that that manifests. 407 00:22:11,310 --> 00:22:15,730 But point being it's like whose need is it and the attunement is actually 408 00:22:15,970 --> 00:22:20,010 accurate and that we're supporting the child's exploration and they're going 409 00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:22,730 away and their separateness as much as we're supporting, 410 00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:26,010 they're coming close and refueling with us. 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Another way. 494 00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:19,610 Sometimes that attachment, 495 00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:24,970 the idea of attachment out there has almost made parents nervous to set a 496 00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:26,650 boundary, to set a limit. It's like, oh, 497 00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:29,370 I'm supposed to be perfectly attuned to this child and they need, 498 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,330 that is not attachment, that is not security. 499 00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:37,250 The world is hard and we are helping them develop a protection and connection 500 00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:39,730 system in the real world as it exists. 501 00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:44,330 Not in some ideal world that's perfectly attuned to them because the world will 502 00:27:44,330 --> 00:27:47,210 not be perfectly attuned to your child or to you. 503 00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:49,970 And if we think it's supposed to be that way, 504 00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:52,690 then we chronically feel a sense of being let down, 505 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:55,130 a sense of being disappointed. So ironically, 506 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:59,690 sometimes we can create more insecurity by having the child 507 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,730 believe that they should never be disappointed or that I need to be preoccupied 508 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,210 with all their needs and make sure that they never have a disappointing 509 00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:08,570 vacation. Because if they do, 510 00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:11,810 they experience a feeling of disappointment or loss. 511 00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:16,090 So part of securely relating to that child is letting them have that 512 00:28:16,090 --> 00:28:20,170 disappointment, connecting with them and being able to go, that is rough. 513 00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:23,290 You really did wanna do that. Ooh. And we couldn't do that. That is hard. 514 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,473 It's. 515 00:28:24,790 --> 00:28:28,610 But when we say attunement, we don't wanna have the message be, you know, 516 00:28:29,050 --> 00:28:29,850 matching mirrors. It's. 517 00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:31,610 Not merger. It is not merger. 518 00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:36,690 Which is also true. Now let's go back to secure relating attachment as an adult. 519 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,330 That many of what we were just saying about parenting is also true about your 520 00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:45,010 primary relationship. Obviously there's some differences, 521 00:28:45,070 --> 00:28:47,530 but what are secure relating? 522 00:28:47,530 --> 00:28:50,410 Secure attachment is in a primary relationship. 523 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,890 It's that you can hold yourself and allow somebody to feel disappointment, 524 00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:59,820 but feel compassion and care for them and stay connected to that rather 525 00:28:59,820 --> 00:29:03,660 than I have to disappear to meet their needs or they have to disappear to meet 526 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:04,753 my needs. 527 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,580 So a secure attachment is we both have needs and we can both deal 528 00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:13,020 with the, with the competition of needs in a way that's loving and caring. 529 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,940 You know? And I think the key to that is, is mutuality. 530 00:29:17,650 --> 00:29:22,580 Like neither relationship, and again, this is a dyad, 531 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,860 it might be a sister or a friend or a, 532 00:29:26,940 --> 00:29:28,700 a polyamorous relationship. It doesn't matter. 533 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,660 The idea being that there is mutuality and even if you're, 534 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,060 you mutually agree to different roles and things like that, that's fine. 535 00:29:38,060 --> 00:29:41,760 But still the base is you have an equal voice, 536 00:29:42,290 --> 00:29:46,680 which means that we allow ourselves to influence our partner or our close 537 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,513 person. 538 00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:53,080 And both we also allow ourselves to be influenced and probably 539 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,160 most of us have, it's easier to do one than the other . Yeah. 540 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,800 Actually for, that's a great way to put it. 541 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,440 So let's just take a second out there and think about it. 542 00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:03,760 Like take a moment before we keep going. 543 00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:09,850 How comfortable are you being influenced by somebody and how 544 00:30:09,850 --> 00:30:13,970 comfortable are you influencing? Because that is a real sign of security. 545 00:30:14,030 --> 00:30:17,890 So those of you out there that like, I need to take a committee all the time. 546 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,450 Like if I'm in the middle of always needing to take a committee, 547 00:30:20,670 --> 00:30:24,730 I'm having a hard time knowing that I can actually influence others and they can 548 00:30:24,730 --> 00:30:25,563 be let down. 549 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:26,690 Right? 550 00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:31,350 So take a committee you mean making a decision and declaring yourself without a 551 00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:32,070 focus group, without. 552 00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:35,230 A focus group. How does everybody else think of that? Right, exactly. 553 00:30:35,850 --> 00:30:40,830 And and so the opposite is also true for those of you out there that we were 554 00:30:40,830 --> 00:30:44,470 trying to distinguish between feeling secure and being secure. 555 00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:47,750 This is a good one because if you are just feeling secure, 556 00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:50,270 then you think I don't need influence. I'm confident I know what I mean. 557 00:30:50,350 --> 00:30:50,990 I know what it I, 558 00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:54,630 I say what I mean and I mean what I say and I don't need somebody else telling 559 00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:57,510 me what to do. I don't need somebody else telling me how to raise my child. 560 00:30:58,030 --> 00:31:00,910 I don't need somebody else. Fill in the blank. 561 00:31:01,730 --> 00:31:03,550 If that's what you're saying to yourself, 562 00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:07,910 I want you to realize that that is you in a protective, insecure state. 563 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,690 Because a secure way of relating and a secure attachment, Juan says, 564 00:31:12,730 --> 00:31:14,450 I need influence, I need others. 565 00:31:15,140 --> 00:31:18,850 There are a lot of people smarter than me and there's a lot of people that I can 566 00:31:18,850 --> 00:31:21,920 help. And that is a secure way of connection. 567 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,593 I love that. I, 568 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,760 I think that's great and and there's even research showing that the less 569 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,880 influenced that you are, in other words, 570 00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:37,000 the more power that you have in a organization or in a family anywhere, 571 00:31:37,420 --> 00:31:38,680 the more power you have, 572 00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:44,600 it causes changes in your brain similar to a traumatic brain injury. 573 00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:49,880 And the reason is that when we're not being given live feedback about how we're 574 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,540 coming across. 575 00:31:50,540 --> 00:31:54,120 You mean like, so if you're in a position of power where people, 576 00:31:54,340 --> 00:31:55,520 you don't have to take influence, 577 00:31:55,540 --> 00:31:58,480 you get to give directions and you get to tell people what to do. That's right. 578 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,680 But you don't really have to take any feedback unless of course you pay for it 579 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,680 over there in a consultation. That's kind of what you're speaking of. 580 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,480 I don't have to take influence. And. 581 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,320 It's a combination. It's not just that people stop giving influence, 582 00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:14,280 but it's also that the person in power, let's say if I'm the C E O, 583 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:19,880 not only do I have fewer and fewer people give me live feedback 584 00:32:20,110 --> 00:32:22,960 that is different than maybe what I think, you know, 585 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,400 that's more challenging to me. But that I need, that begins to reduce, 586 00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:30,960 but also my reading the room reduces. 587 00:32:31,310 --> 00:32:32,640 Your ability to read the room. 588 00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:36,200 Yeah, well the um, there's actual changes in the mirror neuron systems. 589 00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:39,680 You know how like if I see someone cringe, 590 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,680 I know the feeling of that because I can feel the internal cringe. 591 00:32:43,780 --> 00:32:46,120 The more power you have, the less that you fire. 592 00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:49,360 When you see emotion in other people, you typically, 593 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,000 you begin to reduce requesting feedback, you begin to reduce getting it. 594 00:32:53,060 --> 00:32:54,720 But then even just neurologically, 595 00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:59,400 you begin to miss signs around you that are being conveyed 596 00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:02,760 and that that is actually really damaging you. 597 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,760 You begin to lose function basically. 598 00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:07,120 And you're much more prone to make bad decisions. 599 00:33:07,630 --> 00:33:10,120 It's not like the higher up you go the better it is. 600 00:33:10,150 --> 00:33:13,320 It's actually you're more and more and more vulnerable to, you know, 601 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,560 we've talked about, we've talked about close relationships. 602 00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:17,080 Buffering is from stress. 603 00:33:17,790 --> 00:33:20,400 Well the higher you go and if you're not turning to people, 604 00:33:20,670 --> 00:33:24,240 just like you said earlier, if I don't think I need anyone, I, 605 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,240 my body's gonna be actually in more stress, I might bypass it, but you put uh, 606 00:33:29,390 --> 00:33:34,200 skin galvanizing response or if you look at other physiological signs of stress, 607 00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:35,703 it's up there. 608 00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:39,280 So this notion of having influence and being influenced is really important. So. 609 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,880 Is it's kind of like if you don't use it, you lose it if you don't use it. Yeah. 610 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,040 And, and you think about that, so you might feel that might feel good, right? 611 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,280 You don't ever have to take influence on some level it can feel powerful and 612 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,200 that can be, you don't. 613 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:50,960 You don't care what they think. 614 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,000 Right? And that's the, 615 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,240 the sense of us needing power instead of connection is a sign of insecurity. 616 00:33:56,300 --> 00:34:00,560 So when we are thriving on power at a cost of connection 617 00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:05,860 and empowerment, we are suffering and our relationships are suffering. 618 00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:10,780 So take that exact person whose sense of mere neurons have turned down 619 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,540 the ability to respond to the emotions of others and put them in a relationship 620 00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:18,340 with somebody or a parent to somebody. 621 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,500 And you could see how that is gonna really negatively impact those 622 00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:25,980 connections and how you relate. 623 00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:29,820 Yeah. And if you're not sure, then check in with your kids. 624 00:34:30,130 --> 00:34:34,100 Like if you know that you kind of are in a little bit of that more influential 625 00:34:34,390 --> 00:34:38,060 power position, there's two things. One is check in with people, 626 00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:42,060 like really actively see how your kids are feeling with you and don't accept 627 00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:44,860 their first thing. I'm fine, everything's fine, it's good. Well I don't know, 628 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:45,760 you know what I mean? 629 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,380 But really see if you can get them to open up and really let you know kind of 630 00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:51,220 what they need more of, what they need less of. 631 00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:54,740 Like really try to grease those wheels. So that's one thing. 632 00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:55,820 But the other thing would be, 633 00:34:55,830 --> 00:35:00,580 especially if you're just kind of in that kind of unfair advantage 634 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,740 on top of a pile, like the king of the hill sort of thing. 635 00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:08,260 If you're way up there from in an entertainment or in your work, 636 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,060 be sure and keep people around you that will tell you how it really is. 637 00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:16,820 Like you need your gestures if you will. 638 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,820 You need the people who will be honest with you and tune into them and you 639 00:35:20,820 --> 00:35:24,220 should really listen to them because what they have to say is very valuable. 640 00:35:24,220 --> 00:35:25,700 Even if you don't agree with them, 641 00:35:26,410 --> 00:35:28,820 they're speaking for larger group most likely. 642 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,260 And if you ha But. 643 00:35:30,260 --> 00:35:32,700 Anyway, here we, we've just drifted into talking about, uh, 644 00:35:32,980 --> 00:35:36,300 not secure relating I I agree. I heard that. 645 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:37,280 But I was gonna turn it. 646 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:41,040 So if you're listening to this podcast and you're relating to that, 647 00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:43,640 you're reflecting and you're thinking, 648 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,880 I really do need to ask some people about this. I really need to check myself. 649 00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:52,120 The chances are you're probably in a more secure relating way if you're out 650 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,040 there going, eh, forget it. Right? So if you're out there going, oh my God, 651 00:35:56,140 --> 00:35:59,960 I'm really curious about whether I do that. I'm really curious. 652 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,953 I wanna ask people, 653 00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:05,720 do you feel like you get to influence me If you're willing to ask that question 654 00:36:06,380 --> 00:36:10,200 and you're willing to be curious about the answer and open to it, 655 00:36:10,220 --> 00:36:12,160 you're already in a more green position. 656 00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:17,280 Rather than the yes no, I would say on a scale of one to 10, 657 00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:23,120 how influenceable am I or something Or how free do you feel to influence me 658 00:36:23,580 --> 00:36:25,360 so that you won't get the yes no. Right? 659 00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:28,760 And then the other thing is that if you're in a partnership with, 660 00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:31,520 in whatever way that partnership, you know, friend, whatever, 661 00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:35,160 if you're close with someone who yields more power, 662 00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:39,960 then hear this. They need the information you're holding. 663 00:36:40,580 --> 00:36:44,520 It does not help them for you to not say and to not give them live feedback 664 00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:48,240 about how they spoke to the waiter or whatever the thing is that you're not 665 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,840 saying like you're holding information that really belongs to the both of you 666 00:36:52,110 --> 00:36:52,943 that they need. 667 00:36:53,180 --> 00:36:57,760 So we wanna really encourage you to take your fair share of the influence and to 668 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,680 see if you can find your authentic voice, your right sized voice, 669 00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:05,720 not on your tiptoes and not crunch down, but just your voice. Say it, 670 00:37:05,740 --> 00:37:07,840 say it proud. I mean this is security, right? 671 00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:12,240 And allow them to have their feelings and talked about disappointment earlier or 672 00:37:12,430 --> 00:37:15,320 offense or whatever it is. Allow them to have their feelings. 673 00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:18,600 It's not your responsibility, but you're gonna stay connected to them. 674 00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:20,320 Oh you know, it's a little hard to get that feedback. 675 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,520 It was a little embarrassing for them to get caught doing that. 676 00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:26,280 And you're connected to yourself, which is, wow, that was hard to say. 677 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,480 Good job that you got it out and you said it. Those. 678 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,400 Are all really clear signs of being more in the green, 679 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,010 A more secure way of relating, being able to hold that i, 680 00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:39,370 I was thinking of another one and that is being in a relationship, we, 681 00:37:39,370 --> 00:37:43,130 we keep talking about being connected to people and being able to receive 682 00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:44,490 influence and give influence. 683 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,350 There's this idea of also feeling like I can be close with 684 00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:53,310 somebody and not lose my identity or lose my sense of self. 685 00:37:53,410 --> 00:37:56,070 And I think that's a real sign of secure relating. 686 00:37:56,070 --> 00:38:00,830 And that is I can feel close and I don't feel threatened that my sense of 687 00:38:00,830 --> 00:38:02,350 independence is gonna be lost. 688 00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:05,870 I can be close and I don't give myself up. 689 00:38:06,070 --> 00:38:09,790 I don't fear engulfment and I don't fear loss of self. 690 00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:12,310 And so a secure relating individual says, 691 00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:14,230 oh I can be close to you and I can really enjoy it. 692 00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:16,670 But I also have my independence though they both, it's an and. 693 00:38:17,350 --> 00:38:18,390 I love that. And you know, 694 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:23,210 I was just thinking we should think about it inside ourselves and by 695 00:38:23,210 --> 00:38:25,970 secure and by the green. We're talking about ventral vagal. 696 00:38:26,020 --> 00:38:28,490 We're talking about our higher functioning mind, 697 00:38:28,540 --> 00:38:32,970 we're talking about oxytocin and we've talked in other podcasts about being able 698 00:38:32,970 --> 00:38:36,440 to identify are you in that state or connection system or our protection system. 699 00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:41,200 So for me, again, I mean and this is like everybody, like I will assume, 700 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,840 I will think I'm in the green state more than I probably am . 701 00:38:45,380 --> 00:38:47,960 But when we're actually activated, when we're actually activated, 702 00:38:47,980 --> 00:38:51,920 we often don't know that we're activated because we have these distortions that 703 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,280 happen. So for me it's like there really is like a physical, 704 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,040 I can feel, uh, 705 00:38:58,220 --> 00:39:03,120 my heart sometimes I even imagine like a line that goes between my heart to the 706 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,280 other person's heart. That's a really good sign for me, . 707 00:39:06,740 --> 00:39:11,520 And another one for me is pace that when I'm in a more secure state, 708 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,160 like I'm back in my spinal cord, like I'm further back. 709 00:39:15,350 --> 00:39:17,520 Like rather than like leaning forward and going, going, going. 710 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:20,880 I mean I can be in a secure state and active like that, 711 00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:25,880 but being able to take deep breaths and have a slower pace 712 00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:31,000 and have patience and have space for myself 713 00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:33,960 and my own thoughts and space for you and your thoughts and others. 714 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,240 Those are all to me signs of like, I am doing pretty good here in the green. 715 00:39:38,590 --> 00:39:39,560 What about you? Yeah. 716 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,720 'Cause you don't have a sense of urgency. When we're in our protection system, 717 00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:45,480 we have a sense of pressure, a sense of urgency. 718 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,600 And so when you recognize that you're not in a sense of urgency, you can tell. 719 00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:53,360 Yeah, because also like let's say I'm urgently trying to get to the airport. 720 00:39:53,470 --> 00:39:54,240 Yeah. 721 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:54,850 . 722 00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:56,360 Right? That there really is something urgent. 723 00:39:56,940 --> 00:40:00,680 But it doesn't mean that I'm not in my secure place actually that like I can be 724 00:40:00,740 --> 00:40:04,810 in an urgent place, but also like, and, and if I miss the plane, 725 00:40:04,810 --> 00:40:06,850 it's not the end of the world, but I'm gonna urgently get there. 726 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,930 It's like a differentiated thing. 727 00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:13,050 But also like if I'm just urgent because I'm urgently trying to get something 728 00:40:13,690 --> 00:40:17,090 whatever, walk across the house urgently, , then yeah, 729 00:40:17,410 --> 00:40:20,170 probably in my protective zone, that's a good one. But not know it. 730 00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:22,490 It's so weird. It's just gonna be automatic. But that's. 731 00:40:22,490 --> 00:40:24,770 How, why we're, we're talking about how, you know, the, 732 00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:28,730 the signs that you recognize you're in a secure place. One of the ways is again, 733 00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:29,690 we bring up curiosity. 734 00:40:30,270 --> 00:40:34,330 It care if you're feeling a lot of experience inside you, 735 00:40:34,330 --> 00:40:37,890 but you really don't care what somebody else next to you is feeling, 736 00:40:38,310 --> 00:40:40,530 no matter what's going on for you, no matter how, then you're not. 737 00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:41,210 That's a good sign. 738 00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:42,043 Right? That's a good sign. 739 00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:46,850 So one of the ways we know we're in a secure place is that we have compassion 740 00:40:46,850 --> 00:40:50,290 for ourselves, but we can really care and be sensitive to the other. 741 00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:51,370 And it's kind of like you were. 742 00:40:51,470 --> 00:40:52,170 So what's your. 743 00:40:52,170 --> 00:40:56,130 Tell my tell that I'm insecure? That I'm in a secure place? 744 00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:59,490 Yes. That you're in a secure zone. The green zone. I. 745 00:40:59,490 --> 00:41:04,140 Guess what we're talking about is what's a sign that was typically that we are 746 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,020 in not our green zone and how do we know when we're not activating it? . 747 00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:12,700 And I guess mine is like if I'm able to set a limit or a boundary 748 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,380 and I know that somebody is going to feel some 749 00:41:19,150 --> 00:41:22,220 sense of loss or just, you know, some sense of. 750 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,900 Or just be mad about it or yeah. 751 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,060 Not so much mad for some reason that one doesn't get me so much, 752 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,340 but a sense of loss, a sense of like that, 753 00:41:30,340 --> 00:41:32,820 that that's disappointment or activation, right? 754 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,000 I know that I'm in a really deep secure space if I'm okay with that, 755 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,800 that I'm holding what I need and what feels important to me in mind 756 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:43,580 enough that I, 757 00:41:43,580 --> 00:41:46,280 and I know that they can tolerate that and that they're gonna be okay. 758 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,920 Like I don't have to be the one to take that away from them. I can trust them, 759 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,360 I could be there for them, right? So it's not like, oh well tough on you. 760 00:41:52,510 --> 00:41:55,720 It's like, oh I know that's hard and I'm still here. So it's that. 761 00:41:55,860 --> 00:41:59,120 And I think for me the word and is really important. 762 00:41:59,300 --> 00:42:03,650 If it's you or me then we're probably not in our secure place. 763 00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:05,570 If it's you and me, we're having a dilemma. 764 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,410 It's you and me how we're gonna work this out. 765 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,890 Then we're able to show care and concern and self-compassion and 766 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:15,010 no matter whether, even if we're angry, right? 767 00:42:15,010 --> 00:42:17,290 Like I like when you were saying earlier, being in uh, 768 00:42:17,530 --> 00:42:22,050 a secure securely attached system doesn't mean you're never getting pissed and 769 00:42:22,050 --> 00:42:26,330 petty and all of that. It's that you have awareness of yourself or. 770 00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:29,130 You are more quickly Yes. Be able to catch it. Yes. 771 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,490 More and you're more quickly able to repair. Yes. 772 00:42:32,670 --> 00:42:33,410 Oh that's a good one. 773 00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:37,890 We haven't mentioned that individuals that have more secure attachment base feel 774 00:42:37,890 --> 00:42:41,170 more comfortable doing repair and feel apologizing. Apologizing. 775 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,490 It's not hard to say. If it's really difficult for you to say, 776 00:42:44,670 --> 00:42:48,290 I'm sorry to say thank you, those kinda things. 777 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,290 It's likely a sign that you're having a hard time staying in a more secure 778 00:42:52,290 --> 00:42:56,490 place. For those that are live in a more secure attachment place, they can say, 779 00:42:56,490 --> 00:42:59,330 oh, I'm so sorry I hurt you. Let me repair. 780 00:42:59,630 --> 00:43:02,970 And the reason that shows security, it's not just an intellectual decision, 781 00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:04,810 is your body feels safe doing that. 782 00:43:05,310 --> 00:43:10,090 And safe hearing the impact that you've had on the other person and safe being 783 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,250 able to hear and you know, how was that for you? What did, 784 00:43:13,250 --> 00:43:16,850 what did it mean to you when I, we had plans and I didn't come, you know, 785 00:43:16,850 --> 00:43:20,850 just whatever it is. What did it mean to you? What was your story? Oh, 786 00:43:20,850 --> 00:43:23,330 I could totally see that. That makes total sense to me. 787 00:43:23,330 --> 00:43:27,370 And it's not that you're self-flagellating, you are not losing yourself. 788 00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:32,850 You really are holding the other person's experience and sort of bearing it so 789 00:43:32,850 --> 00:43:35,610 that you can, then the apology is about what you actually did. 790 00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:39,050 Not what's in your mind that you thought about, but I'm curious for you, 791 00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:39,883 the listener, 792 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,370 that we want you to begin to really track your activation 793 00:43:45,070 --> 00:43:47,370 and hopefully in listening to us, if you're, 794 00:43:47,370 --> 00:43:48,930 if you're sitting or walking or driving, 795 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,610 hopefully right now maybe you're in a green zone, maybe you are in a open, 796 00:43:53,630 --> 00:43:57,330 you're reflecting on what we're saying, you're curious about your own history, 797 00:43:57,510 --> 00:44:01,770 you're curious about close people. So that's what it feels like. 798 00:44:01,870 --> 00:44:04,970 If that's the case, take a picture, take a mental picture, 799 00:44:05,950 --> 00:44:10,730 notice your jaw, notice your breath, your back, your arms. 800 00:44:11,550 --> 00:44:12,650 That's what it feels like. 801 00:44:13,310 --> 00:44:16,330 And the more that we can kind of memorize what it feels like when we're open, 802 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,930 then we'll have some direction when we are a little bit activated 803 00:44:22,230 --> 00:44:23,930 of where we wanna get back to, that's. 804 00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:27,690 A really good, some of us may live there more than others. And for that, 805 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:31,900 that means we encourage you when you're around individuals that are struggling 806 00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:35,120 with that to be a really secure lifeline. Not a teacher, 807 00:44:35,260 --> 00:44:37,280 but an example to kind of help. 808 00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:40,920 And if for those of you that because of your particular circumstances, 809 00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:42,640 you don't get to live there as much as you want. 810 00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:47,840 Our goal is to help you realize by keeping in touch with what it's like to be 811 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:48,040 there, 812 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,960 that you can continue to make decisions to recognize when you're not and to 813 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:53,793 aim for it. 814 00:44:54,260 --> 00:44:58,800 And this transition and the growth in this direction is almost 815 00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:02,520 always going to be interpersonal. So look around you, 816 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,720 look at your close relationships. Where can you deepen? Where can you reach out? 817 00:45:07,210 --> 00:45:09,480 Where do you need to set boundaries? Like Anne said, 818 00:45:09,490 --> 00:45:13,280 where do you need to tighten up? Where do you need to speak up that you haven't? 819 00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:17,600 Just make those little fine tune adjustments and you're gonna grow that secure 820 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,040 state. 821 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,120 I love that. And if you, 822 00:45:19,300 --> 00:45:23,000 if you can't think of reaching out like I don't really need to reach out, 823 00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:27,240 I'm just gonna do it. Tell your body like, oh actually I do. They're, 824 00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,360 they're suggesting that I do need to reach out. It doesn't feel natural to me. 825 00:45:30,980 --> 00:45:32,920 It doesn't feel like a natural instinct, 826 00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:37,080 but just being aware that it's not a natural instinct moves you towards agree. 827 00:45:38,300 --> 00:45:41,640 We appreciate you sticking with us and if you are still listening, 828 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,040 hopefully that means you have found value. 829 00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:45,880 We encourage you to share this with anyone you think might be interested. 830 00:45:46,570 --> 00:45:47,800 Leave us a rating review. 831 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,920 That's one of the best things you can do for us because it helps discoverability 832 00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:56,200 and helps other people find it. And then also visiting our sponsors, 833 00:45:56,220 --> 00:45:58,200 if you'll look at who sponsored this show, 834 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,200 they're the ones making it free and available for all. 835 00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:04,640 And by taking care of them, you're taking care of us. 836 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,160 Absolutely. Alright, thanks for joining us and we'll see you around the bid. 837 00:46:15,870 --> 00:46:16,480 Therapist. 838 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,680 Uncensored is Anne Kelly and Sue Marriott. 839 00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:21,320 This podcast is edited by Jack Anderson.