1 00:00:26,243 --> 00:00:27,917 Hello, and welcome back to the race to 2 00:00:27,917 --> 00:00:30,229 value. We are glad you are here. I 3 00:00:30,229 --> 00:00:32,302 am your host, Ashley Schwartz. And today we 4 00:00:32,302 --> 00:00:34,708 have a very special guest joining us. Jeffrey 5 00:00:34,868 --> 00:00:36,943 Roche is the son of a nurse, future 6 00:00:36,943 --> 00:00:41,013 work an education expert, diversity, equity, inclusion and 7 00:00:41,013 --> 00:00:41,891 belonging advocate. 8 00:00:42,624 --> 00:00:45,102 Champion for transforming health equity and the host 9 00:00:45,102 --> 00:00:47,120 of the Ed up health up podcast. 10 00:00:48,298 --> 00:00:51,495 His professional career includes over 16 years than 11 00:00:51,495 --> 00:00:54,368 h And higher education leadership as a strategic 12 00:00:54,368 --> 00:00:56,218 advisor to the President and Ceo 13 00:00:56,750 --> 00:00:58,893 and Department director of various departments. 14 00:00:59,370 --> 00:01:02,648 Little These include business development planning, government affairs, 15 00:01:03,126 --> 00:01:05,912 community health and public relations for Lehigh Valley 16 00:01:06,071 --> 00:01:06,947 Hospital Pom. 17 00:01:07,996 --> 00:01:10,542 At lebanon in Valley College in Harrisburg University 18 00:01:10,542 --> 00:01:11,838 of Science and Technology, 19 00:01:12,531 --> 00:01:15,657 he held senior leadership roles focused on strategic 20 00:01:15,873 --> 00:01:16,111 partnerships. 21 00:01:17,163 --> 00:01:18,999 Organizational strategy and business development. 22 00:01:19,478 --> 00:01:22,351 As senior vice President, business and workforce development 23 00:01:22,351 --> 00:01:25,145 at Dignity Health Global Education, he led a 24 00:01:25,145 --> 00:01:26,938 diverse team focused on developing 25 00:01:27,397 --> 00:01:29,554 institutional relationships with leading health systems, 26 00:01:29,954 --> 00:01:33,364 while having national conversations and initiatives to develop 27 00:01:33,723 --> 00:01:36,834 innovative diversity, equity and inclusion solutions for the 28 00:01:36,834 --> 00:01:37,711 healthcare workforce. 29 00:01:39,067 --> 00:01:40,982 With that, Jeffrey and I are going to 30 00:01:40,982 --> 00:01:42,997 dive in the current state of the healthcare 31 00:01:43,055 --> 00:01:43,215 workforce. 32 00:01:43,868 --> 00:01:46,577 Focusing on a post Covid landscape where we 33 00:01:46,577 --> 00:01:49,229 have seen how our healthcare professionals went from 34 00:01:49,367 --> 00:01:51,041 heroes to essentially zeros, 35 00:01:51,534 --> 00:01:53,522 In this episode, we are going to touch 36 00:01:53,522 --> 00:01:56,863 on the education crisis, the significant skills gap 37 00:01:56,863 --> 00:01:58,790 that is causing a drop in productive. Activity, 38 00:01:59,109 --> 00:02:01,349 and the importance of ups skill your workforce. 39 00:02:02,230 --> 00:02:03,030 Welcome Jeffrey. 40 00:02:03,909 --> 00:02:06,801 Thanks, Ashley. Happy to be here. Activity Well, 41 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,631 thank you for joining us. So I kind 42 00:02:08,631 --> 00:02:10,859 of want to turn it over to you 43 00:02:10,859 --> 00:02:12,951 really quick just to give, like, a broad 44 00:02:13,247 --> 00:02:15,610 overview of what is going on because we're 45 00:02:15,729 --> 00:02:17,476 seeing it on Linkedin. We're seeing it on 46 00:02:17,476 --> 00:02:18,111 the news. 47 00:02:18,667 --> 00:02:19,644 We're seeing it 48 00:02:20,097 --> 00:02:23,194 everywhere that the healthcare workforce is essentially, like, 49 00:02:23,433 --> 00:02:24,647 in a state of 50 00:02:25,180 --> 00:02:27,344 seeing shock and panic right now. And it 51 00:02:27,344 --> 00:02:29,413 it seems to have been this way since, 52 00:02:29,572 --> 00:02:32,619 you know, the pandemic and the rise of 53 00:02:33,248 --> 00:02:34,203 traveling nurses, 54 00:02:34,601 --> 00:02:36,215 the drop in 55 00:02:36,670 --> 00:02:37,170 people 56 00:02:38,022 --> 00:02:40,465 continuing their education in the health field. So 57 00:02:40,584 --> 00:02:42,819 you are the subject matter expert, So I 58 00:02:42,819 --> 00:02:45,772 really want to hear what you're seeing and 59 00:02:45,772 --> 00:02:48,167 and what you think has essentially happened. 60 00:02:49,379 --> 00:02:51,318 Yeah. So it's it's certainly 61 00:02:51,856 --> 00:02:53,156 a very complex 62 00:02:54,334 --> 00:02:56,731 problem, and certainly, to your point, we have 63 00:02:56,731 --> 00:02:57,610 to truly unpack. 64 00:02:58,344 --> 00:02:59,885 I I wanna first acknowledge 65 00:03:00,344 --> 00:03:02,264 that even before the pandemic, 66 00:03:02,985 --> 00:03:03,305 we, 67 00:03:03,784 --> 00:03:05,784 in the healthcare care community had a ton 68 00:03:05,784 --> 00:03:06,504 of insights. 69 00:03:07,064 --> 00:03:09,173 So and even forecasting 70 00:03:09,789 --> 00:03:11,860 that was helping us to understand that we 71 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:13,693 were gonna run into a supply and demand 72 00:03:13,693 --> 00:03:14,250 gap challenge. 73 00:03:14,744 --> 00:03:16,021 And what I mean by that is that 74 00:03:16,021 --> 00:03:18,038 there was definitely a ton of data 75 00:03:18,416 --> 00:03:20,593 that suggested that nursing programs, 76 00:03:21,210 --> 00:03:24,580 allied health programs, even our leadership type of 77 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:24,979 programs, 78 00:03:25,459 --> 00:03:27,539 we were expected to see this this drop 79 00:03:27,539 --> 00:03:28,360 in enrollment 80 00:03:28,979 --> 00:03:30,919 that would impact the future 81 00:03:31,219 --> 00:03:33,695 workforce. So we knew that. Right? And then 82 00:03:33,695 --> 00:03:36,075 obviously, the pandemic happened, which just kind of 83 00:03:36,075 --> 00:03:36,575 exacerbated 84 00:03:37,106 --> 00:03:38,455 and added to the problems. 85 00:03:38,869 --> 00:03:40,467 And so the first thing I wanna acknowledge 86 00:03:40,467 --> 00:03:41,686 is is we cannot 87 00:03:42,065 --> 00:03:44,702 continue to blame this on the pandemic. We 88 00:03:44,702 --> 00:03:47,111 have to actually look inward. And we have 89 00:03:47,111 --> 00:03:49,260 to say why didn't we do more about 90 00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:51,170 this? And when when I say that, I 91 00:03:51,170 --> 00:03:52,148 mean, why didn't 92 00:03:52,762 --> 00:03:53,876 education and health care? 93 00:03:54,448 --> 00:03:55,345 Come together 94 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:56,855 to innovative 95 00:03:57,229 --> 00:04:00,169 solve that. Now, obviously, we've done some things, 96 00:04:00,328 --> 00:04:02,172 but we have a lot more that has 97 00:04:02,172 --> 00:04:02,649 to happen. 98 00:04:03,206 --> 00:04:06,308 The second aspect around this is when the 99 00:04:06,308 --> 00:04:09,344 pandemic happened to your earlier point We saw 100 00:04:09,344 --> 00:04:12,521 an early phase of people saying, wow, our 101 00:04:12,521 --> 00:04:15,403 health care professionals our doctors, our nurses are 102 00:04:15,459 --> 00:04:17,285 our, you know, our entire team. 103 00:04:18,413 --> 00:04:21,045 Except not not actually holy. Right? Because here's 104 00:04:21,045 --> 00:04:23,279 the reality. During the pandemic, there were actually 105 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,874 people that served on the front lines of 106 00:04:24,874 --> 00:04:27,267 health care who were actually not considered essential 107 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:27,586 workers. 108 00:04:28,239 --> 00:04:29,677 People don't realize that. So if you look 109 00:04:29,677 --> 00:04:32,894 at, like, imaging professionals, particularly, they were not 110 00:04:33,033 --> 00:04:35,830 recognized as essential workers. And so during the 111 00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:38,229 pandemic and even after they have felt slight. 112 00:04:38,626 --> 00:04:40,531 And so we have made, you know some 113 00:04:40,531 --> 00:04:43,150 just bad decisions as a society when we 114 00:04:43,150 --> 00:04:45,189 take care of our health care workforce, now 115 00:04:45,309 --> 00:04:46,744 that ultimately has led them to say, you 116 00:04:46,744 --> 00:04:48,680 know what? If I'm not gonna be valued 117 00:04:48,818 --> 00:04:51,609 appreciated respected, I'm gonna move on. So that's 118 00:04:51,609 --> 00:04:52,885 kind of the second thing I would say. 119 00:04:53,443 --> 00:04:54,262 The third 120 00:04:54,654 --> 00:04:55,154 is 121 00:04:56,254 --> 00:04:59,534 recognizing we have this significant supply demand gap 122 00:04:59,534 --> 00:04:59,935 challenge. 123 00:05:00,735 --> 00:05:02,254 There's a few things that we've gotta do 124 00:05:02,254 --> 00:05:04,230 a, we've gotta work together and I think 125 00:05:04,826 --> 00:05:07,450 institutions like Western Governors University are doing that, 126 00:05:07,529 --> 00:05:09,676 you know, as an academic institution with health 127 00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:10,391 care systems. 128 00:05:11,266 --> 00:05:13,515 But we also have to in healthcare 129 00:05:14,384 --> 00:05:15,105 address culture. 130 00:05:15,745 --> 00:05:18,865 We know that we see today, people are 131 00:05:18,865 --> 00:05:21,345 choosing to serve in organizations based on culture, 132 00:05:22,078 --> 00:05:23,831 they want to be there if they feel 133 00:05:23,831 --> 00:05:24,889 valued or 134 00:05:25,345 --> 00:05:26,300 appreciated perspective. 135 00:05:27,097 --> 00:05:28,292 And so to your point, 136 00:05:29,104 --> 00:05:31,574 what we've seen especially post pandemic. 137 00:05:32,131 --> 00:05:34,283 Is individuals have realized that I can still 138 00:05:34,283 --> 00:05:36,593 be clinical in work remote, I can still 139 00:05:36,593 --> 00:05:39,477 be clinical and I can travel the country. 140 00:05:39,955 --> 00:05:42,105 I can still be clinical and I can 141 00:05:42,105 --> 00:05:44,256 work a couple days a week at 1 142 00:05:44,256 --> 00:05:46,487 health care system and then work a couple 143 00:05:46,487 --> 00:05:48,160 more at another healthcare care system. 144 00:05:48,892 --> 00:05:51,684 And so it's a very different model. Some 145 00:05:51,684 --> 00:05:53,199 would call it the gig economy. 146 00:05:53,838 --> 00:05:55,513 Now we have the gig economy in healthcare 147 00:05:55,513 --> 00:05:57,427 care. We've seen in other industries. We now 148 00:05:57,427 --> 00:05:58,065 have it in health care. 149 00:05:58,798 --> 00:06:00,414 And so we have a lot of work 150 00:06:00,711 --> 00:06:02,545 to get used to this new normal, 151 00:06:03,263 --> 00:06:05,575 and it's not going to change quickly, but 152 00:06:05,575 --> 00:06:07,032 what we have to do 153 00:06:07,344 --> 00:06:09,179 is we have to get back to addressing 154 00:06:09,179 --> 00:06:10,456 those aspects of culture. 155 00:06:11,094 --> 00:06:13,589 We also have to acknowledge we've got 5 156 00:06:13,807 --> 00:06:16,535 generations in the workplace. Something very unique. Yes. 157 00:06:16,695 --> 00:06:18,930 We've had other generations in the workplace before. 158 00:06:19,249 --> 00:06:20,685 But this is a different time, 159 00:06:21,404 --> 00:06:22,941 and let me just kinda finish 160 00:06:23,253 --> 00:06:24,763 I'm sure you have some thoughts on as 161 00:06:24,763 --> 00:06:25,001 well, 162 00:06:25,716 --> 00:06:27,544 is that this is not just a United 163 00:06:27,783 --> 00:06:30,190 States problem. This is a global 164 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:32,419 problem. Who as I do my work and 165 00:06:32,419 --> 00:06:34,660 have the privilege to, you know, collaborate with 166 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:35,779 colleagues around the world, 167 00:06:36,339 --> 00:06:37,860 this is a problem in the United Kingdom. 168 00:06:38,194 --> 00:06:39,949 You know, this is a problem in in 169 00:06:39,949 --> 00:06:42,024 the African countries. This is a problem in 170 00:06:42,183 --> 00:06:43,960 Europe throughout. This is a problem 171 00:06:44,576 --> 00:06:44,816 everywhere. 172 00:06:45,389 --> 00:06:47,612 And what we've also started to see as 173 00:06:47,612 --> 00:06:50,098 we all here in America have have acknowledged 174 00:06:50,233 --> 00:06:52,322 is we've started to see more 175 00:06:52,775 --> 00:06:53,275 strikes 176 00:06:53,903 --> 00:06:55,658 among a healthcare care workforce in a way 177 00:06:55,658 --> 00:06:57,971 that we have not necessarily seen as broad 178 00:06:57,971 --> 00:06:59,726 and as large, and I'll give you a 179 00:06:59,726 --> 00:07:02,198 couple examples. Kaiser Permanente is a good example 180 00:07:02,198 --> 00:07:03,808 where we saw 1 of the largest rights, 181 00:07:04,206 --> 00:07:05,718 you know, here in the United States, and 182 00:07:05,718 --> 00:07:07,151 we've seen many in New York City. 183 00:07:07,867 --> 00:07:10,175 And also, remember United Kingdom had a very, 184 00:07:10,255 --> 00:07:11,051 very long strike. 185 00:07:11,702 --> 00:07:14,008 Among their nursing workforce among their hospitals and 186 00:07:14,008 --> 00:07:16,075 health care trusts. And so this is not 187 00:07:16,075 --> 00:07:18,460 just a Us problem. It's gonna require a 188 00:07:18,460 --> 00:07:19,414 lot of innovation, though. 189 00:07:21,179 --> 00:07:23,414 No. Absolutely. And you brought up some really 190 00:07:23,414 --> 00:07:25,250 interesting points that I do wanna touch on. 191 00:07:25,490 --> 00:07:27,405 The first thing that really stood out to 192 00:07:27,405 --> 00:07:31,091 me as a millennial is that there are 193 00:07:31,091 --> 00:07:33,107 5 generations of 194 00:07:34,202 --> 00:07:37,733 health workers and students right now in the 195 00:07:37,791 --> 00:07:39,945 workforce. What issues are you seeing with that? 196 00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:42,455 Because I find the whole generational 197 00:07:43,153 --> 00:07:45,090 aspect to be very interesting 198 00:07:46,026 --> 00:07:48,501 in general, like, in every aspect of life, 199 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:50,903 but it... It's interesting because you can go 200 00:07:50,903 --> 00:07:52,254 on social media and you can go on 201 00:07:52,334 --> 00:07:54,161 Linkedin and you can see post. 202 00:07:54,956 --> 00:07:55,456 And 203 00:07:56,625 --> 00:07:57,658 just by how, 204 00:07:58,389 --> 00:08:00,380 the person looks, you can kind of tell 205 00:08:00,380 --> 00:08:01,199 what their 206 00:08:01,655 --> 00:08:03,248 insights are going to be. So how is 207 00:08:03,248 --> 00:08:04,841 that affecting health care right now? 208 00:08:05,573 --> 00:08:05,812 Yeah. 209 00:08:06,450 --> 00:08:07,348 You know, so 210 00:08:08,043 --> 00:08:10,615 so you you will regularly hear me 211 00:08:11,230 --> 00:08:13,620 suggest to my hospital and health care system, 212 00:08:14,018 --> 00:08:14,496 colleagues. 213 00:08:15,229 --> 00:08:15,729 That 214 00:08:16,348 --> 00:08:18,686 as leaders, we really need to harness 215 00:08:19,305 --> 00:08:20,764 the potential, creativity, 216 00:08:21,862 --> 00:08:23,780 action and purpose of each and every 1 217 00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:24,500 of the generation. 218 00:08:25,235 --> 00:08:27,074 The reality I think is that as a 219 00:08:27,074 --> 00:08:29,335 society, we've done more critical 220 00:08:29,714 --> 00:08:31,735 type of aspects of it versus 221 00:08:32,448 --> 00:08:34,590 lifting 1 another up. And what I mean 222 00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:35,146 by that is, 223 00:08:35,860 --> 00:08:38,637 I'm a millennial as well. And obviously started 224 00:08:38,637 --> 00:08:39,375 my career 225 00:08:39,684 --> 00:08:41,988 in hospital administration was promoted at a very 226 00:08:41,988 --> 00:08:43,760 young age a leadership role 227 00:08:44,213 --> 00:08:47,551 and managed individuals that were significantly older than 228 00:08:47,551 --> 00:08:48,051 me 229 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:51,492 And what I learned in that experience, particularly 230 00:08:52,189 --> 00:08:54,183 was that, you know, there's a lot of 231 00:08:54,183 --> 00:08:56,815 things that are stated about millennials and and 232 00:08:56,815 --> 00:08:58,511 a lot of things that are stated about 233 00:08:58,823 --> 00:09:00,916 you know, the younger generations today 234 00:09:01,371 --> 00:09:04,180 that just are not true. We... As a 235 00:09:04,238 --> 00:09:06,387 society like to kinda pinpoint things, 236 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,879 But now is not the time for that. 237 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,419 What we have to do 238 00:09:10,799 --> 00:09:12,500 is we have to create a culture 239 00:09:12,879 --> 00:09:14,720 that allows them to be the best that 240 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,250 they can be. Is that's what we needed 241 00:09:16,250 --> 00:09:18,716 in healthcare care. We need individuals who strive 242 00:09:18,716 --> 00:09:21,263 for excellence each and every day. And the 243 00:09:21,263 --> 00:09:23,013 only way to allow them to strive for 244 00:09:23,013 --> 00:09:24,627 excellence is to create a community 245 00:09:25,016 --> 00:09:25,754 and culture 246 00:09:26,126 --> 00:09:28,741 that allows them to thrive. And that means 247 00:09:28,741 --> 00:09:31,357 they have to be appreciated respected valued herd, 248 00:09:32,244 --> 00:09:34,477 And why I'd say that is that if 249 00:09:34,477 --> 00:09:35,855 you look at the data 250 00:09:36,232 --> 00:09:39,662 amount among generations. The younger generations millennials included, 251 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:41,597 study after study 252 00:09:42,549 --> 00:09:44,067 clearly want to be recognized. 253 00:09:44,866 --> 00:09:46,944 And so instead of saying, oh, wow, they 254 00:09:46,944 --> 00:09:48,542 always want this recognition. 255 00:09:49,422 --> 00:09:50,561 Stop with the cy, 256 00:09:51,514 --> 00:09:52,414 and give it 257 00:09:52,875 --> 00:09:55,294 because the reality of it is is that 258 00:09:55,754 --> 00:09:57,195 if you do those things, 259 00:09:58,154 --> 00:10:00,495 you will keep them, you will retain them 260 00:10:00,729 --> 00:10:02,324 And now is a time in healthcare where 261 00:10:02,324 --> 00:10:04,239 we cannot lose good people. 262 00:10:04,797 --> 00:10:06,015 We need every 263 00:10:06,392 --> 00:10:08,546 1 of them. And the reality of it 264 00:10:08,546 --> 00:10:10,300 is to to that exact point. 265 00:10:11,032 --> 00:10:13,977 Is that to your point, the younger generations 266 00:10:13,977 --> 00:10:15,649 will turn to social media, they are not 267 00:10:15,649 --> 00:10:16,467 gonna hesitate 268 00:10:16,843 --> 00:10:18,139 to share their stories 269 00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:20,289 And here's the thing. I know a lot 270 00:10:20,289 --> 00:10:21,250 of people talk about, 271 00:10:22,129 --> 00:10:23,570 you know, why would you go to Tiktok 272 00:10:23,570 --> 00:10:24,769 and share this? And why would you go 273 00:10:24,769 --> 00:10:27,420 to Instagram and share this? You know, Everyone 274 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:30,699 has to communicate in a way that they 275 00:10:30,754 --> 00:10:31,627 feel fits them. 276 00:10:32,342 --> 00:10:34,112 I'm not going to be 1 to judge 277 00:10:34,326 --> 00:10:35,199 how people do that. 278 00:10:35,928 --> 00:10:37,912 And what I've always asked, my colleagues in 279 00:10:37,912 --> 00:10:38,967 health care to do 280 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:39,840 is 281 00:10:40,212 --> 00:10:42,274 have some empathy. You don't know. 282 00:10:43,084 --> 00:10:45,637 What they're dealing with. You don't know how 283 00:10:45,637 --> 00:10:46,116 they're feeling. 284 00:10:47,153 --> 00:10:49,148 Many of us in health care have been 285 00:10:49,148 --> 00:10:50,026 there for a long time, 286 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:52,912 and we've served in a place where, you 287 00:10:52,912 --> 00:10:54,507 know, we have such great benefits, 288 00:10:54,986 --> 00:10:56,262 you know, decent salaries. 289 00:10:57,059 --> 00:10:59,771 We didn't consider necessarily moving. Times have changed. 290 00:11:00,745 --> 00:11:02,524 Those options are far 291 00:11:02,825 --> 00:11:03,865 and plentiful. 292 00:11:04,424 --> 00:11:06,024 And so at the end of the day, 293 00:11:06,264 --> 00:11:08,359 we really have to look at, how do 294 00:11:08,359 --> 00:11:10,916 we create the best culture that ultimately is 295 00:11:10,916 --> 00:11:12,593 gonna retain each and every 1 of them 296 00:11:12,593 --> 00:11:13,093 and 297 00:11:13,632 --> 00:11:15,390 prepare them as the future, 298 00:11:16,121 --> 00:11:17,787 generation of leadership. Because guess what? 299 00:11:18,580 --> 00:11:22,230 The current leaders are heading towards retirement, and 300 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:23,103 we are seeing exactly. 301 00:11:25,105 --> 00:11:27,734 Exactly. And I think too as somebody who 302 00:11:27,734 --> 00:11:28,234 has 303 00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:30,841 entered leadership roles at a young age, and, 304 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,514 you know, my career has always been in 305 00:11:32,514 --> 00:11:32,992 health care. 306 00:11:33,884 --> 00:11:36,619 I am interested to see how the culture 307 00:11:36,677 --> 00:11:39,152 does shift as, you know, the the baby 308 00:11:39,152 --> 00:11:40,131 boomers are 309 00:11:40,589 --> 00:11:42,366 either retired or they're 310 00:11:42,758 --> 00:11:43,396 almost there. 311 00:11:44,034 --> 00:11:44,534 And 312 00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:47,541 the gen x generation doesn't really seem to 313 00:11:47,541 --> 00:11:49,374 have that much of an interest in leadership. 314 00:11:49,534 --> 00:11:51,643 So I feel like it is the millennials 315 00:11:51,782 --> 00:11:52,282 and 316 00:11:53,297 --> 00:11:55,292 what's after us? The Gen z that are 317 00:11:55,292 --> 00:11:57,127 stepping up into these leadership roles, 318 00:11:58,179 --> 00:11:58,918 Are you 319 00:11:59,695 --> 00:12:02,888 anticipating, like, a big culture shift as us 320 00:12:02,888 --> 00:12:05,761 millennials do take over into these leadership positions 321 00:12:05,761 --> 00:12:06,261 because 322 00:12:06,733 --> 00:12:08,483 even though, you know, you and I might 323 00:12:08,483 --> 00:12:10,233 function in a leadership role right now, 324 00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:12,642 we are still primarily 325 00:12:14,065 --> 00:12:17,557 working with that Gen and those boomer generations. 326 00:12:17,795 --> 00:12:18,295 But 327 00:12:18,905 --> 00:12:21,722 from the data that I've seen we are 328 00:12:22,017 --> 00:12:24,084 anticipating a big shift in the next 5, 329 00:12:24,402 --> 00:12:26,706 6 years with a lot of the the 330 00:12:26,706 --> 00:12:29,909 baby boomers in healthcare being retired in, 331 00:12:30,298 --> 00:12:31,992 not wanting to step up the plate 332 00:12:32,447 --> 00:12:34,778 to the plate for these leadership roles. So 333 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:37,563 is there a date out there or 334 00:12:38,098 --> 00:12:39,632 ideas of what 335 00:12:39,942 --> 00:12:40,839 culture shift 336 00:12:41,609 --> 00:12:42,720 is anticipated? 337 00:12:44,466 --> 00:12:46,608 There is. And and, you know, let me 338 00:12:46,608 --> 00:12:47,084 just say, 339 00:12:48,608 --> 00:12:51,949 we have to create the culture and the 340 00:12:51,949 --> 00:12:52,449 environment 341 00:12:53,062 --> 00:12:55,861 that allows for the younger generations. To want 342 00:12:55,861 --> 00:12:57,926 to see that they can be in those 343 00:12:57,926 --> 00:13:00,070 leadership roles. I'm afraid we haven't. 344 00:13:00,864 --> 00:13:03,429 We've we've historically in healthcare care 345 00:13:03,739 --> 00:13:05,350 had a very top down 346 00:13:05,723 --> 00:13:06,040 approach. 347 00:13:06,993 --> 00:13:09,454 And, you know, this is why we must 348 00:13:09,454 --> 00:13:11,438 in health care, and I say this all 349 00:13:11,438 --> 00:13:11,914 the time, 350 00:13:12,724 --> 00:13:15,058 at a board level at a trustee level 351 00:13:15,196 --> 00:13:16,473 at an executive level, 352 00:13:17,111 --> 00:13:18,249 we have to recognize 353 00:13:18,706 --> 00:13:22,056 that fiduciary responsibility, which we often talk about 354 00:13:22,056 --> 00:13:24,722 in health care, especially at the governance level 355 00:13:24,939 --> 00:13:27,966 has to include people. Has to include culture. 356 00:13:28,762 --> 00:13:29,240 And so, 357 00:13:29,957 --> 00:13:32,763 because, ultimately, you can have care excellence, in 358 00:13:32,763 --> 00:13:33,243 patient care, 359 00:13:34,122 --> 00:13:35,321 excellence in patient safety, 360 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,179 excellence and quality 361 00:13:37,638 --> 00:13:41,328 without every 1 of our people. Clinical, and 362 00:13:41,328 --> 00:13:41,965 non clinical. 363 00:13:42,523 --> 00:13:43,342 And so 364 00:13:43,878 --> 00:13:45,949 my challenge always to those that are at 365 00:13:45,949 --> 00:13:47,862 the executive and at the board and governance 366 00:13:47,862 --> 00:13:50,184 level is is what are you doing each 367 00:13:50,184 --> 00:13:52,489 and every day to take care of your 368 00:13:52,489 --> 00:13:55,351 people. That's what leadership is about. We are 369 00:13:55,351 --> 00:13:57,918 to take care of our flock, our team 370 00:13:58,070 --> 00:13:58,549 our people. 371 00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:59,750 And so, 372 00:14:00,790 --> 00:14:02,410 to your point, I am very 373 00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:05,210 afraid because we we see a significant 374 00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:06,090 shift 375 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:07,620 particularly 376 00:14:07,994 --> 00:14:09,822 from the vantage point of those that are 377 00:14:09,822 --> 00:14:13,636 in middle management roles and leadership executive leadership 378 00:14:13,636 --> 00:14:16,440 roles heading towards retirement and we haven't done 379 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,080 a great job of succession planning, and we 380 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,080 also haven't done a great job of preparing 381 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,759 for. And so the obvious, 382 00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:25,562 question within that is what do we need 383 00:14:25,562 --> 00:14:27,813 to do? And I think this is where 384 00:14:27,949 --> 00:14:30,576 health leaders have to sit and think about 385 00:14:30,576 --> 00:14:32,326 what are they doing to invest in their 386 00:14:32,326 --> 00:14:32,485 people? 387 00:14:33,296 --> 00:14:33,796 Historically, 388 00:14:34,411 --> 00:14:34,911 health 389 00:14:35,764 --> 00:14:38,072 like other industries, but but I can only 390 00:14:38,072 --> 00:14:39,584 speak to the 1 I know best and 391 00:14:39,584 --> 00:14:41,822 health care is that we haven't invested enough 392 00:14:41,822 --> 00:14:43,962 in learning and development. We truly have not. 393 00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:46,103 And when we have, we tend to invest 394 00:14:46,103 --> 00:14:47,847 at the higher levels more than we do. 395 00:14:48,259 --> 00:14:50,337 At the other levels that ultimately can become 396 00:14:50,337 --> 00:14:53,134 the future of those higher levels. And so, 397 00:14:53,933 --> 00:14:55,611 for those that are sitting in those seats 398 00:14:55,611 --> 00:14:57,939 today in the C suite at the board 399 00:14:57,939 --> 00:14:59,367 level. The challenge that I would give them 400 00:14:59,367 --> 00:15:01,430 is think really hard about this. If you 401 00:15:01,430 --> 00:15:03,040 wanna have a sustainable 402 00:15:03,968 --> 00:15:06,449 organization at clinical levels at non clinical levels, 403 00:15:06,768 --> 00:15:09,713 you need to partner with an academic institution 404 00:15:09,713 --> 00:15:11,964 and truly build out a robust 405 00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:13,253 at comprehensive 406 00:15:14,109 --> 00:15:16,502 learning and leadership development program. 407 00:15:17,061 --> 00:15:18,257 There's no way you can do it in 408 00:15:18,257 --> 00:15:20,889 house. You just don't have the resources, the 409 00:15:20,889 --> 00:15:22,165 infrastructure to do it effectively. 410 00:15:22,579 --> 00:15:24,652 That's not to say I'm I'm challenging any 411 00:15:24,652 --> 00:15:26,327 of my colleagues who I adore and learning 412 00:15:26,327 --> 00:15:29,038 and development. They're all amazing, But they gotta 413 00:15:29,038 --> 00:15:31,271 have support. And I think we have to 414 00:15:31,271 --> 00:15:31,771 have 415 00:15:32,084 --> 00:15:34,474 truly robust career mobility pathways. 416 00:15:34,951 --> 00:15:37,819 We've gotta have, true ladder programs. I tell 417 00:15:37,819 --> 00:15:39,652 people all the time that health care is 418 00:15:39,652 --> 00:15:40,926 a place where we talk a lot about 419 00:15:40,926 --> 00:15:42,772 this, But the reality is we don't have 420 00:15:42,772 --> 00:15:45,478 crew mobility. We have shoots and ladders. We 421 00:15:45,478 --> 00:15:47,707 don't have, you know, a great structure, but 422 00:15:47,707 --> 00:15:49,378 we've got to. It's the only way we're 423 00:15:49,378 --> 00:15:50,254 gonna be successful. 424 00:15:51,625 --> 00:15:54,105 Right. And, you know, I think that as 425 00:15:54,105 --> 00:15:56,745 you mentioned, like, the the latter approach that 426 00:15:56,745 --> 00:15:59,384 a lot of healthcare care organizations like half, 427 00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:02,911 So when I was a young leader, and, 428 00:16:03,071 --> 00:16:04,586 you know, I would get a promotion, 429 00:16:05,624 --> 00:16:07,972 I would move up... A rank 430 00:16:08,346 --> 00:16:11,285 and get, like, a specific race. Like, it 431 00:16:11,285 --> 00:16:13,192 wasn't a race that had anything to do 432 00:16:13,192 --> 00:16:13,986 with my role, 433 00:16:14,478 --> 00:16:16,706 my education, anything like that. It was just, 434 00:16:16,785 --> 00:16:18,615 like, the standard rate. So if you moved 435 00:16:18,615 --> 00:16:20,842 up XYZ rank, you might get 5 percent. 436 00:16:21,414 --> 00:16:22,852 You moved up another rink, you might get 437 00:16:22,852 --> 00:16:25,249 another 5 percent. But then my colleagues who 438 00:16:25,249 --> 00:16:27,486 were coming in, working similar positions. 439 00:16:28,285 --> 00:16:30,759 If As I was after my promotion in 440 00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:32,291 my race, they were making 441 00:16:33,933 --> 00:16:36,472 20 30000 dollars more a year than I 442 00:16:36,472 --> 00:16:38,640 was. And Mh. I think you look at 443 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,636 that and you're like, but I am, you 444 00:16:40,636 --> 00:16:42,631 know, you hired that person from the outside, 445 00:16:42,791 --> 00:16:45,026 but here I am. I'm loyal to your 446 00:16:45,026 --> 00:16:45,345 company. 447 00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:47,752 I care about the company. I'm trying to 448 00:16:47,752 --> 00:16:48,789 work my way up. 449 00:16:49,745 --> 00:16:52,137 And now it's only been a... Like, for 450 00:16:52,137 --> 00:16:54,232 me to be able to survive, and 451 00:16:54,624 --> 00:16:56,700 The economy that we have today. I now 452 00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:59,435 have to leave, leave the company I love 453 00:17:00,532 --> 00:17:02,528 that, you know, when you've invested into me, 454 00:17:02,607 --> 00:17:04,775 and I've invested into you, but now in 455 00:17:04,775 --> 00:17:05,751 order to live 456 00:17:06,523 --> 00:17:08,509 and be financially secure. I have to leave 457 00:17:08,509 --> 00:17:10,496 this company to join an a different 1. 458 00:17:10,894 --> 00:17:12,745 And to me that never really made 459 00:17:13,372 --> 00:17:16,017 a ton of cents when the companies 460 00:17:16,391 --> 00:17:18,139 aren't investing and their own employees. 461 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:19,569 Yep. 462 00:17:20,538 --> 00:17:22,131 And I think I think the difference they're 463 00:17:22,131 --> 00:17:22,928 right is is 464 00:17:24,122 --> 00:17:25,737 is human resources 465 00:17:26,751 --> 00:17:28,184 in our health organizations. 466 00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:29,355 Yeah 467 00:17:30,429 --> 00:17:32,519 you know, have to truly evolve 468 00:17:32,974 --> 00:17:34,406 into a future of work model. 469 00:17:34,963 --> 00:17:35,917 III 470 00:17:35,917 --> 00:17:37,429 fear that in many, many cases, 471 00:17:38,398 --> 00:17:40,223 where we are today in health care is 472 00:17:40,223 --> 00:17:40,723 many 473 00:17:41,095 --> 00:17:42,944 of those areas and those functions 474 00:17:43,317 --> 00:17:45,062 are still acting as if we were, you 475 00:17:45,062 --> 00:17:46,094 know, 10 years ago. 476 00:17:46,824 --> 00:17:49,058 And so we've got evolved into a very 477 00:17:49,058 --> 00:17:49,776 different model. 478 00:17:50,654 --> 00:17:51,154 And 479 00:17:51,930 --> 00:17:53,366 the other piece that I'll just say is, 480 00:17:54,259 --> 00:17:55,693 you know, you can't just always go out 481 00:17:55,693 --> 00:17:57,445 and hire consultants to do this, you know, 482 00:17:57,605 --> 00:17:59,836 to fix these things that listen to your 483 00:17:59,836 --> 00:18:03,421 people. The answers are truly among your workforce. 484 00:18:04,151 --> 00:18:05,525 If you take the time 485 00:18:05,898 --> 00:18:08,758 to to digest and hear from them, I 486 00:18:08,758 --> 00:18:11,220 am absolutely certain that they can share with 487 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:11,720 you 488 00:18:12,173 --> 00:18:14,753 solutions that will help move the bottom line 489 00:18:14,968 --> 00:18:17,271 and more importantly, build a more sustainable future. 490 00:18:17,668 --> 00:18:19,653 You can't just go hire, you know, the 491 00:18:19,653 --> 00:18:21,504 consultants to do that. That that just 492 00:18:21,892 --> 00:18:23,242 never has rubbed me the right way. 493 00:18:23,957 --> 00:18:25,647 Because the reality of it is we know 494 00:18:25,703 --> 00:18:28,561 through engage... Engagement surveys, we also know through 495 00:18:28,561 --> 00:18:30,308 a ton of other analysis and data, 496 00:18:30,958 --> 00:18:33,364 even dis rotations that doctor students have done 497 00:18:33,579 --> 00:18:35,723 that when you listen to your people, you 498 00:18:35,723 --> 00:18:36,359 get the answers. 499 00:18:37,471 --> 00:18:38,583 Oh, yeah. Because... 500 00:18:39,551 --> 00:18:41,323 The people you're... Who are 501 00:18:41,697 --> 00:18:42,992 filling out those surveys, 502 00:18:43,923 --> 00:18:45,353 they're going to tell you the good the 503 00:18:45,353 --> 00:18:47,182 bad and the ugly of what needs to 504 00:18:47,182 --> 00:18:48,158 be done and 505 00:18:48,548 --> 00:18:51,887 I never understood, like, hiring out consultants. I 506 00:18:51,887 --> 00:18:54,193 work for an organization that hired out deloitte 507 00:18:54,193 --> 00:18:55,703 at 1 point and in my head, I'm 508 00:18:55,703 --> 00:18:57,984 thinking for the money you paying for deloitte 509 00:18:58,184 --> 00:18:59,964 come in to tell you things 510 00:19:00,345 --> 00:19:00,845 that 511 00:19:01,704 --> 00:19:04,505 your clinical staff are already, they already know 512 00:19:04,505 --> 00:19:06,265 it. You could invest that money into your 513 00:19:06,265 --> 00:19:08,591 staff to Absolutely. Them happier. 514 00:19:09,307 --> 00:19:10,102 But instead, 515 00:19:10,818 --> 00:19:13,284 we're gonna hire deloitte to come in. And 516 00:19:13,284 --> 00:19:14,477 while Deloitte is great. 517 00:19:16,084 --> 00:19:18,721 They're outsider. So I mean, I think consulting 518 00:19:18,721 --> 00:19:20,959 sometimes can be important from, like an outside 519 00:19:20,959 --> 00:19:23,357 perspective. But really, I agree with you. You 520 00:19:23,357 --> 00:19:25,375 have to listen to your 521 00:19:25,689 --> 00:19:27,989 your staff because they they do have the 522 00:19:27,989 --> 00:19:28,489 answers 523 00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:30,845 for for a majority of the problems. 524 00:19:31,479 --> 00:19:31,717 Yep. 525 00:19:32,924 --> 00:19:34,942 So I did kind of wanna segue 526 00:19:36,279 --> 00:19:39,076 into education because I have... You and I 527 00:19:39,076 --> 00:19:41,003 both have this unique. Perspective where we have 528 00:19:41,003 --> 00:19:42,037 worked in health systems, 529 00:19:42,833 --> 00:19:43,810 and now are 530 00:19:44,264 --> 00:19:46,514 working in an educational 531 00:19:47,048 --> 00:19:48,264 leadership role in some 532 00:19:48,733 --> 00:19:49,768 way shape or form. 533 00:19:50,404 --> 00:19:53,030 And something I've really noticed, and I've seen 534 00:19:53,030 --> 00:19:54,564 the data on is that 535 00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:57,529 we don't 536 00:19:58,070 --> 00:20:00,390 with the amount of nurses who are going 537 00:20:00,390 --> 00:20:03,269 to be retiring, so those gen and those 538 00:20:03,269 --> 00:20:05,860 baby boomers, we are not seeing the 539 00:20:06,314 --> 00:20:08,404 the increase in students 540 00:20:09,176 --> 00:20:11,641 join... Going to nursing school. And so really 541 00:20:11,641 --> 00:20:14,319 there is an educational crisis within the health 542 00:20:14,439 --> 00:20:14,994 care sector, 543 00:20:15,946 --> 00:20:17,954 you know, working for a college 544 00:20:18,486 --> 00:20:20,628 and having a lot of friends in the 545 00:20:20,628 --> 00:20:23,343 industry. What I've seen is that care we 546 00:20:23,343 --> 00:20:25,199 don't even have enough clinical 547 00:20:25,894 --> 00:20:27,967 spots because we don't have enough pre receptors. 548 00:20:28,924 --> 00:20:31,656 Yep. To to do clinical. So 549 00:20:32,049 --> 00:20:35,002 what factors do you think has really contributed 550 00:20:35,002 --> 00:20:37,098 to the health care crisis? And 551 00:20:37,476 --> 00:20:39,391 what are you seeing as the implications of 552 00:20:39,391 --> 00:20:41,794 it? And After we discuss that, I kind 553 00:20:41,794 --> 00:20:43,169 of want to go into 554 00:20:43,942 --> 00:20:45,214 the entire, like, 555 00:20:46,646 --> 00:20:49,532 ups, skill and continuous education and why that 556 00:20:49,532 --> 00:20:50,750 is so important 557 00:20:51,685 --> 00:20:53,121 for our students right now. 558 00:20:53,919 --> 00:20:54,158 Yeah. 559 00:20:54,876 --> 00:20:56,924 I think what what what we have to 560 00:20:57,441 --> 00:21:00,781 truly understand on the limitations. And certainly the 561 00:21:00,781 --> 00:21:03,428 the bottleneck that's certainly occurring from a clinical 562 00:21:03,644 --> 00:21:04,621 experience level 563 00:21:05,075 --> 00:21:06,689 is we have to 564 00:21:07,159 --> 00:21:08,514 really... And we have to be thoughtful here. 565 00:21:08,674 --> 00:21:09,631 Right? I mean, at the end of the 566 00:21:09,631 --> 00:21:09,870 day, 567 00:21:10,508 --> 00:21:12,502 I'm a huge fan of of rigor. I'm 568 00:21:12,502 --> 00:21:14,735 a huge fan of quality, and I'm certainly 569 00:21:14,735 --> 00:21:15,851 a huge fan of excellence. 570 00:21:16,504 --> 00:21:18,574 But I but I fear that on the 571 00:21:18,574 --> 00:21:20,962 clinical and on the health care end, particularly, 572 00:21:21,917 --> 00:21:22,736 our crediting 573 00:21:23,191 --> 00:21:23,669 bodies. 574 00:21:24,798 --> 00:21:28,378 Also have not necessarily evolved and advanced to 575 00:21:28,378 --> 00:21:30,048 where we sit in health care today. And 576 00:21:30,048 --> 00:21:31,814 what I mean by that is that you 577 00:21:31,814 --> 00:21:34,449 know, if you take just clinical simulation, for 578 00:21:34,449 --> 00:21:34,768 example. 579 00:21:35,885 --> 00:21:36,843 You know, nursing, 580 00:21:37,482 --> 00:21:40,217 few years ago was approved up to 30 581 00:21:40,276 --> 00:21:40,515 percent. 582 00:21:41,089 --> 00:21:43,185 And they I know some states, boards 583 00:21:43,962 --> 00:21:45,877 allow more, but I don't I don't believe 584 00:21:45,877 --> 00:21:48,351 any are above 50 percent to my knowledge, 585 00:21:49,004 --> 00:21:50,751 But then there are other aspects and other 586 00:21:50,830 --> 00:21:52,975 Allied health areas where other healthcare care creditors, 587 00:21:53,134 --> 00:21:54,904 for example, don't allow any 588 00:21:55,516 --> 00:21:56,016 any 589 00:21:56,787 --> 00:21:57,287 virtual 590 00:21:57,819 --> 00:21:57,978 simulation. 591 00:21:58,947 --> 00:22:01,649 It has to be 100 percent in person 592 00:22:01,649 --> 00:22:02,364 clinical hours. 593 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,351 And so to your point, when you have 594 00:22:04,351 --> 00:22:05,702 a a lack of pre receptors, 595 00:22:06,274 --> 00:22:08,211 You have a lack of educators 596 00:22:09,308 --> 00:22:10,345 in the health care system, 597 00:22:10,984 --> 00:22:13,698 and you also have this workforce crisis, it 598 00:22:13,698 --> 00:22:14,975 becomes very, very challenging. 599 00:22:15,388 --> 00:22:18,666 To kinda help meet the moment of preparing 600 00:22:18,722 --> 00:22:21,103 this... These students who are our future workforce. 601 00:22:21,738 --> 00:22:23,898 And so I think you know, as I 602 00:22:23,898 --> 00:22:24,932 say, these are those kinda... 603 00:22:25,569 --> 00:22:27,717 We've gotta come to the moment. We've gotta 604 00:22:27,717 --> 00:22:30,358 come to the dance as a creditor. As 605 00:22:30,358 --> 00:22:33,230 our education institutions as employers, meaning our health 606 00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:34,826 care systems, and we've gotta be able to 607 00:22:34,826 --> 00:22:36,762 solve this. And we have to solve it 608 00:22:37,791 --> 00:22:39,006 with a sustainable 609 00:22:39,697 --> 00:22:40,570 thought in mind. 610 00:22:41,127 --> 00:22:43,509 And so we're dealing with this crisis now, 611 00:22:43,986 --> 00:22:46,144 but we also have the data that suggests 612 00:22:46,144 --> 00:22:48,204 that it... It's it's gonna get worse before 613 00:22:48,204 --> 00:22:48,917 it gets better. 614 00:22:49,471 --> 00:22:52,190 And so we can't continue the trajectory 615 00:22:52,641 --> 00:22:54,570 I And so my big thing is is 616 00:22:54,570 --> 00:22:57,863 we've gotta get every 1 of those entities 617 00:22:57,922 --> 00:22:58,422 together 618 00:22:58,879 --> 00:23:00,076 and truly have... 619 00:23:00,889 --> 00:23:04,409 What I would consider a student friendly and 620 00:23:04,409 --> 00:23:07,389 a health friendly solution because ultimately, 621 00:23:08,103 --> 00:23:09,459 it's gonna serve out well for all of 622 00:23:09,459 --> 00:23:11,770 us. So that's that's where I see, you 623 00:23:11,770 --> 00:23:13,683 know, the significant challenge, And I'll give you 624 00:23:13,683 --> 00:23:15,437 a kind of a second example to that 625 00:23:15,437 --> 00:23:17,840 where I know even Western governors has been 626 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,237 very 627 00:23:18,794 --> 00:23:21,442 progressive on on the teacher side, which is 628 00:23:21,657 --> 00:23:24,202 apprenticeship. You know, health care has been slow. 629 00:23:24,854 --> 00:23:27,472 To do apprenticeship. And it's not that health 630 00:23:27,472 --> 00:23:28,662 care doesn't. 631 00:23:29,217 --> 00:23:32,470 It's truly that a creditors have not necessarily 632 00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:33,129 made it 633 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,640 so that academic institutions and healthcare care systems 634 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,680 can advance this forward. 635 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,000 And when I speak with the creditors, 636 00:23:40,493 --> 00:23:43,039 and I always challenge them respectfully on this. 637 00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:45,290 We have got to have 638 00:23:45,665 --> 00:23:48,472 apprenticeship in health care. It is a important 639 00:23:48,927 --> 00:23:50,858 solution It is also a way to create 640 00:23:50,858 --> 00:23:53,095 more equity, and I will also just say 641 00:23:53,175 --> 00:23:55,993 I'm a huge fan and proponent an advocate 642 00:23:56,052 --> 00:23:57,970 of us moving to an apprenticeship degree. 643 00:23:58,784 --> 00:23:59,183 Offering. 644 00:23:59,823 --> 00:24:02,379 You've gotta have absolutely. You have to have 645 00:24:02,379 --> 00:24:03,039 a system 646 00:24:03,578 --> 00:24:06,075 that allows people to learn and earn 647 00:24:06,548 --> 00:24:08,927 on the job. We can't continue a system 648 00:24:08,927 --> 00:24:10,695 where you have to choose between a job 649 00:24:10,830 --> 00:24:13,209 and a degree. Not everyone has that same, 650 00:24:13,288 --> 00:24:14,185 you know, sing 651 00:24:14,731 --> 00:24:16,874 level of resources. And so we we have 652 00:24:16,874 --> 00:24:17,906 a lot of work to do in this 653 00:24:17,906 --> 00:24:19,176 space, but the key is how do you 654 00:24:19,176 --> 00:24:20,152 make it sustainable 655 00:24:22,128 --> 00:24:23,401 Yeah. Exactly. And you know, 656 00:24:24,594 --> 00:24:27,060 I was a Western Governor's University student, 657 00:24:27,617 --> 00:24:28,753 and that's 658 00:24:29,144 --> 00:24:30,924 I loved about the organization 659 00:24:31,384 --> 00:24:33,244 itself is that they make learning 660 00:24:33,625 --> 00:24:36,184 easy for people who can't quit their jobs 661 00:24:36,184 --> 00:24:38,190 to go to school. That's not sustainable. 662 00:24:39,539 --> 00:24:41,762 And I feel like, like you said with 663 00:24:41,762 --> 00:24:43,033 the apprenticeship programs, 664 00:24:43,588 --> 00:24:44,485 it would be 665 00:24:45,508 --> 00:24:49,079 so beneficial for organizations to work that out 666 00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:49,579 because 667 00:24:50,032 --> 00:24:50,746 I, you know, 668 00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:53,206 let's take, like, a a Cna, 669 00:24:53,539 --> 00:24:55,455 or a medical assistant, for example. 670 00:24:56,014 --> 00:24:58,488 90 percent of those individuals, they want to 671 00:24:58,488 --> 00:24:59,686 be Rn n bs. 672 00:25:00,324 --> 00:25:02,160 Like, if you ask them, what do you 673 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,844 want They're like, I want to be a 674 00:25:03,844 --> 00:25:06,145 nurse. Or, you know, even even something else 675 00:25:06,145 --> 00:25:07,653 in the Allied health field, I want to 676 00:25:07,653 --> 00:25:09,558 be a son photographer or I want to 677 00:25:09,558 --> 00:25:10,058 do, 678 00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:13,144 you know, they're be whatever it is in 679 00:25:13,144 --> 00:25:16,081 health care. So they want that, but they 680 00:25:16,081 --> 00:25:19,042 also have families to feed, families to support 681 00:25:19,335 --> 00:25:19,835 and 682 00:25:20,383 --> 00:25:22,633 they can't stop working 683 00:25:23,883 --> 00:25:26,212 to to go to school. And even though 684 00:25:26,349 --> 00:25:28,592 that if they moved into our end position 685 00:25:28,592 --> 00:25:30,206 or if they moved into a son photographer 686 00:25:30,343 --> 00:25:31,639 position, it would benefit 687 00:25:32,094 --> 00:25:34,982 the hospital they were working for, the hospital 688 00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:37,365 will still not work with them. They so 689 00:25:37,365 --> 00:25:39,445 that they can go back to school. They 690 00:25:39,445 --> 00:25:42,164 won't flex their schedule. They won't allow for, 691 00:25:42,325 --> 00:25:44,565 you know, and I understand it's a business, 692 00:25:44,644 --> 00:25:45,765 and they have a business to run and 693 00:25:45,765 --> 00:25:47,139 there's patients to take care of. 694 00:25:48,099 --> 00:25:48,599 But 695 00:25:49,220 --> 00:25:51,299 at the same time, if you pour into 696 00:25:51,299 --> 00:25:53,720 your employees and allow them to 697 00:25:54,659 --> 00:25:55,159 excel 698 00:25:55,953 --> 00:25:58,020 you know, you're... You could have a a 699 00:25:58,180 --> 00:25:58,680 Cna 700 00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:02,950 become your charge nurse. Yep. Yep. If you 701 00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:06,096 work with them. So why why is that 702 00:26:06,314 --> 00:26:07,692 why has it health care 703 00:26:08,469 --> 00:26:11,103 realize how important that is? Like, I guess 704 00:26:11,103 --> 00:26:13,751 that's where I get stuck. When we see 705 00:26:13,751 --> 00:26:15,347 people who want to work. They want to 706 00:26:15,347 --> 00:26:16,942 be in nurses, they want to be a 707 00:26:16,942 --> 00:26:17,580 son photographer, 708 00:26:18,059 --> 00:26:20,951 and we we literally cannot forge a path 709 00:26:21,329 --> 00:26:23,359 either in education or 710 00:26:23,976 --> 00:26:26,689 with their health care system an organization to 711 00:26:26,689 --> 00:26:28,444 allow them to do that. When that is 712 00:26:28,444 --> 00:26:29,422 what we need 713 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,127 or Yeah. I mean, it it really does 714 00:26:32,127 --> 00:26:34,360 come down to both the creditor and the 715 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:36,375 licensing standards. Right? And so, 716 00:26:36,832 --> 00:26:38,506 you know, we've seen some movement. Right? 717 00:26:39,798 --> 00:26:42,196 But not not fast enough, and certainly, we've 718 00:26:42,196 --> 00:26:43,394 gotta do more. So if you take, like, 719 00:26:43,554 --> 00:26:44,753 your son, for example, 720 00:26:45,632 --> 00:26:46,750 today you've got to, 721 00:26:47,962 --> 00:26:50,289 you have to get the associate's degree 722 00:26:50,901 --> 00:26:52,331 first than that you have to sit for 723 00:26:52,331 --> 00:26:55,190 that national level certification. There's no other current 724 00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:55,690 way 725 00:26:56,222 --> 00:26:56,778 to get there. 726 00:26:57,509 --> 00:26:59,981 Now the obvious example to your point is, 727 00:27:00,699 --> 00:27:02,613 if you already work in Allied Health, why 728 00:27:02,613 --> 00:27:03,809 should you have to go back for a 729 00:27:03,809 --> 00:27:05,644 full 2 year? Why can't it be an 730 00:27:05,644 --> 00:27:06,681 accelerated 2 year? 731 00:27:07,493 --> 00:27:10,122 Because you already have stack credentials that allow 732 00:27:10,122 --> 00:27:12,273 you to go quicker. That's the type of 733 00:27:12,273 --> 00:27:14,663 work that I'm doing right now, and and 734 00:27:14,663 --> 00:27:16,256 that's the type of work that I'm hopeful 735 00:27:16,256 --> 00:27:17,970 we'll get both the creditor 736 00:27:18,589 --> 00:27:21,230 and, certainly, the licensing in the imaging space 737 00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:23,630 to to agree to and and Fingers Crossed 738 00:27:23,630 --> 00:27:24,990 will will get some movement there, 739 00:27:25,724 --> 00:27:27,724 we have got to do that across the 740 00:27:27,724 --> 00:27:30,285 board. And I think to your point, this 741 00:27:30,285 --> 00:27:31,345 is really where 742 00:27:32,285 --> 00:27:32,684 academia, 743 00:27:33,339 --> 00:27:36,132 and health care have to come together. And 744 00:27:36,132 --> 00:27:37,808 we again, we have to go to the 745 00:27:37,808 --> 00:27:38,127 creditor, 746 00:27:38,926 --> 00:27:40,224 to the licensing boards 747 00:27:40,682 --> 00:27:41,001 together, 748 00:27:41,734 --> 00:27:43,974 we have to, you know, use the power 749 00:27:43,974 --> 00:27:47,015 of our of our infrastructure to bring government 750 00:27:47,015 --> 00:27:49,734 with us to bring philanthropic partners with us, 751 00:27:50,069 --> 00:27:53,339 and really coalition build around this because this 752 00:27:53,339 --> 00:27:55,971 is an issue that affects everyone. And in 753 00:27:56,131 --> 00:27:58,523 America, we tend to not realize that until 754 00:27:58,523 --> 00:27:59,401 it really affects us. 755 00:28:00,291 --> 00:28:02,593 But but people are starting to. You know, 756 00:28:02,673 --> 00:28:04,419 when you go wait for 8 hours, 10 757 00:28:04,419 --> 00:28:07,039 hours, 14 hours in an emergency room, 758 00:28:07,849 --> 00:28:10,509 you know, or you wait weeks to months 759 00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:12,250 for an imaging study. 760 00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:14,890 I think people start to really ask those 761 00:28:14,890 --> 00:28:17,616 questions. But to your point, we can't we 762 00:28:17,616 --> 00:28:19,919 can't just continue to kinda kick that hockey 763 00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:22,381 puck down. We've gotta actually get to a 764 00:28:22,381 --> 00:28:22,540 solution. 765 00:28:23,493 --> 00:28:25,479 Right. And I... And I think that... 766 00:28:26,689 --> 00:28:29,005 The solutions. It's it's almost like we're on 767 00:28:29,005 --> 00:28:31,322 the cusp 1 and then something happens. 768 00:28:31,801 --> 00:28:32,840 Yeah. And it's like, 769 00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:35,868 like, the pandemic happens. It's like, everything shut 770 00:28:35,868 --> 00:28:37,294 out and we had to figure that out. 771 00:28:37,453 --> 00:28:39,829 And then now that we're post pandemic, 772 00:28:40,876 --> 00:28:43,181 it's like, we need another solution, and it's 773 00:28:43,181 --> 00:28:44,930 like, well, at what point can we just 774 00:28:44,930 --> 00:28:47,552 put something into place and and move on. 775 00:28:48,284 --> 00:28:50,122 To allow everyone to be successful. 776 00:28:51,081 --> 00:28:54,058 And so I want to just kind of 777 00:28:54,357 --> 00:28:55,955 throw it out there as we're wrapping up, 778 00:28:57,009 --> 00:28:57,509 how 779 00:28:57,968 --> 00:29:01,084 do you think we can, like, as as 780 00:29:01,084 --> 00:29:01,963 we're looking ahead, 781 00:29:02,842 --> 00:29:04,120 what do you envision? 782 00:29:04,693 --> 00:29:06,283 As the future of the health care workforce. 783 00:29:06,522 --> 00:29:07,715 I know we touched on this with, like, 784 00:29:07,794 --> 00:29:10,520 the millennials kinda taking over to leadership positions 785 00:29:10,656 --> 00:29:11,156 and, 786 00:29:11,770 --> 00:29:12,167 you know, 787 00:29:12,978 --> 00:29:15,712 the government entities and the education entities are 788 00:29:15,770 --> 00:29:18,264 realizing that we need to come together. But 789 00:29:18,801 --> 00:29:21,433 what steps do you think as a subject 790 00:29:21,433 --> 00:29:22,412 matter expert 791 00:29:22,884 --> 00:29:25,302 Can we take now with what we have 792 00:29:25,761 --> 00:29:27,380 to ensure the health 793 00:29:28,638 --> 00:29:30,715 workforce is stable at this point? 794 00:29:31,846 --> 00:29:32,481 Yeah. I think, 795 00:29:33,355 --> 00:29:35,102 you know, to everything we've talked about, 796 00:29:36,691 --> 00:29:38,994 it's it's just incredibly important. 797 00:29:39,962 --> 00:29:42,607 For every health care system to truly 798 00:29:43,378 --> 00:29:46,080 be, you know, working in locks with their 799 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,878 academic partners at both the community college bachelor's, 800 00:29:49,037 --> 00:29:49,537 masters 801 00:29:49,994 --> 00:29:52,067 and so on level and and even around 802 00:29:52,067 --> 00:29:54,460 certificates and certifications and such as well. 803 00:29:55,337 --> 00:29:57,272 I'm encouraged and continue 804 00:29:58,064 --> 00:29:59,739 to believe very strongly we've gotta do a 805 00:29:59,739 --> 00:30:01,415 lot of work at the k 03:12 system 806 00:30:01,415 --> 00:30:02,474 to also get 807 00:30:03,251 --> 00:30:05,166 individuals interested to wanna a serve in health 808 00:30:05,166 --> 00:30:05,326 care, 809 00:30:06,139 --> 00:30:08,057 Historically, it's been... They wanna be a doctor 810 00:30:08,057 --> 00:30:09,895 earners nurse. Right? But there's so many other 811 00:30:09,895 --> 00:30:12,053 roles in health care. So we've gotta help 812 00:30:12,053 --> 00:30:14,210 set them up for success early. 813 00:30:15,023 --> 00:30:17,091 Show them all the opportunities and then and 814 00:30:17,091 --> 00:30:19,000 then allow them to pick with guidance and 815 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,148 support from a some from a supportive network. 816 00:30:21,959 --> 00:30:24,192 I'm super encouraged by, you know, the work 817 00:30:24,192 --> 00:30:27,301 that Bloomberg phil is doing right now with 818 00:30:27,301 --> 00:30:29,295 13 different health care systems where they're building 819 00:30:29,295 --> 00:30:30,810 out career connected high schools. 820 00:30:31,784 --> 00:30:34,580 In health care, that's that's the future. We've 821 00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:36,018 gotta do more of. We've got... And we've 822 00:30:36,018 --> 00:30:37,376 seen success in that Like, if you go 823 00:30:37,376 --> 00:30:38,675 back, I mean, you look at 824 00:30:38,988 --> 00:30:40,416 back in the Da text, you know, I'm 825 00:30:40,416 --> 00:30:42,161 showing my age, but now called Career and 826 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,192 Technical Institutes. 827 00:30:44,541 --> 00:30:45,810 You know, if you look at, 828 00:30:46,143 --> 00:30:48,291 those programs, you know, I I look at 829 00:30:48,291 --> 00:30:49,643 my late brother, for example, 830 00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:52,029 you know, he went to our career in 831 00:30:52,029 --> 00:30:54,267 technical institute and. Through that became a decent 832 00:30:54,267 --> 00:30:56,170 mechanic. And that is what allowed him to 833 00:30:56,170 --> 00:30:57,122 generate that interest. 834 00:30:57,836 --> 00:30:59,501 If we do that more in high school 835 00:30:59,501 --> 00:31:00,239 in health 836 00:31:00,770 --> 00:31:01,744 through we will have, 837 00:31:02,464 --> 00:31:05,024 a better trajectory of actually having individuals to 838 00:31:05,024 --> 00:31:06,944 serve in health. And so that's the kind 839 00:31:06,944 --> 00:31:08,384 of stuff we have to do is we've 840 00:31:08,384 --> 00:31:10,880 gotta get into middle schools into high schools, 841 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:12,080 get them interested, 842 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:14,259 educate them, show them people 843 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,880 who work in health care that actually look 844 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:17,359 like them. 845 00:31:17,934 --> 00:31:20,328 Help them understand that they can reach that. 846 00:31:20,807 --> 00:31:22,083 And that I think is some of the 847 00:31:22,083 --> 00:31:23,838 super important things. In addition, to all the 848 00:31:23,838 --> 00:31:24,956 other stuff we've talked about. 849 00:31:26,006 --> 00:31:27,677 Yeah. No I agree. And I actually have 850 00:31:27,677 --> 00:31:29,746 an episode coming out. It's going to be 851 00:31:29,746 --> 00:31:32,212 recorded in a couple weeks on diversity and 852 00:31:32,212 --> 00:31:34,940 inclusion it. In health care and how much 853 00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:36,557 of an impact it is 854 00:31:36,935 --> 00:31:39,569 to see whether you're a patient or you 855 00:31:39,569 --> 00:31:41,779 are somebody who wants to enter the workforce 856 00:31:42,059 --> 00:31:44,611 how important it is to either be taken 857 00:31:44,611 --> 00:31:46,924 care of by somebody who looks like you. 858 00:31:47,323 --> 00:31:49,875 Mh. Or how important it is to see 859 00:31:49,875 --> 00:31:51,550 someone who looks like you who could be 860 00:31:51,550 --> 00:31:54,670 your colleague. And I do think that's so 861 00:31:54,670 --> 00:31:55,170 important 862 00:31:56,024 --> 00:31:57,377 for us to see. So I'm glad that 863 00:31:57,377 --> 00:31:58,890 you touched on that because we are going 864 00:31:58,890 --> 00:32:00,659 to be touching on that in a couple 865 00:32:00,659 --> 00:32:02,976 weeks on a on a different podcast. So 866 00:32:03,136 --> 00:32:05,075 Right. I think that's an important segue 867 00:32:05,933 --> 00:32:08,431 into the workforce issues that we're seeing also 868 00:32:09,544 --> 00:32:11,223 And and I think it helps build the 869 00:32:11,223 --> 00:32:11,723 trust 870 00:32:12,102 --> 00:32:14,419 between colleagues and also between, like, the doctor, 871 00:32:14,659 --> 00:32:17,536 nurse patient, allied health relationships for sure. 872 00:32:18,988 --> 00:32:20,820 So, Jeffrey, I wanna thank you so much 873 00:32:20,820 --> 00:32:22,493 for taking time out your day, to join 874 00:32:22,493 --> 00:32:25,282 us. You really truly are a subject matter 875 00:32:25,282 --> 00:32:28,013 expert for the workforce, And I think 876 00:32:28,404 --> 00:32:29,781 you know, with everybody 877 00:32:30,318 --> 00:32:33,269 seeing so many negative things right now about 878 00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:35,662 the health workforce. It's kind of nice to 879 00:32:35,662 --> 00:32:37,417 know that there are people like you who 880 00:32:37,417 --> 00:32:39,740 are working on this solution. So thank you 881 00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,250 so much for joining us today. 882 00:32:42,204 --> 00:32:44,429 Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Love having you. 883 00:32:44,747 --> 00:32:47,234 So thank you for that, And for everyone 884 00:32:47,234 --> 00:32:49,815 else, stay tuned because we will be releasing 885 00:32:50,035 --> 00:32:52,115 episodes every 2 weeks. And like I said, 886 00:32:52,275 --> 00:32:53,634 our next 1 is going to touch on 887 00:32:53,715 --> 00:32:55,728 Ai and behavioral health. And the 1 right 888 00:32:55,728 --> 00:32:57,563 after that is going to be diversity and 889 00:32:57,563 --> 00:33:00,277 inclusion. So stay tuned for those episodes and 890 00:33:00,277 --> 00:33:01,952 thank you for joining us on the race 891 00:33:01,952 --> 00:33:02,431 to value. 892 00:33:03,070 --> 00:33:03,125 And