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Junkie Podcast. Your weekly dose of knife news and information

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about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob The

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Knife Junkie DeMarco.

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Welcome back to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this

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edition of the show, I'm speaking again with Rolando Garcia III

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and continuing our conversation about his study of the bladed martial

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arts, bowie knives, navajas and all things knives and

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knife fighting. You know him as Rolando Escutada on YouTube

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and Instagram where he shows off his collection and skills

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and features deep diving episodes on the origins, designs and

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combative methodologies of the world's edged weapons.

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We'll catch up with Rolando for some more fascinating knife talk, but first, be

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sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell and download the show

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you can share it. That goes a great distance. Or you can scan the

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So go on over to the knife junkie.com Patreon and check it

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out again. That's thenifejunkie.com Patreon

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Rolando, welcome back to the show. It's a pleasure seeing you again, sir.

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It's always a pleasure to see you, my brother.

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Wait, before we get into the conversation, I. I want to say at Blade

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show, you had your cat. You were walking around with you. Yes. And.

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And he looks. He or she. She looks so much

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like my gray cat that I, I was going to try and wrangler her

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and show her off. You. But you know, wrangling cats is not always the

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easiest thing. No, it's a very tough job.

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So just to remind people if, if it's been a while since they've seen the

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last episode we spoke, describe to people

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what the Escotada methodology is. Yeah, so

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the, the system was something that I was, that I had ended up Codifying

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and still very much in its evolution. And when my two

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instructors, my first one is my father and from whom I received

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a good portion of my martial arts training, a lot of it is in the

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Filipino martial arts. But he did expose me to judo, Ne

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Waza and Sam Wing Chun. He was also a judo brown belt in the

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Philippines. But a good portion of my own training comes from

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his Filipino martial arts, specifically the these Felicissimo

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Dizon Filipino martial arts. And he's like one of

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those great instructors that not a lot of people know about.

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He's often mentioned in the same breath as a grandmaster,

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Angel Cabala's who was, who basically taught him,

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right. And also Kalis Illustrisimo founder

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Antonio Tatang Illustrisimo, the Great swordsman. So I got the

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Felicissimo d' Zone curriculum from him. Then I got

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my jeet Kune do and Filipino martial arts, Brazilian jiu

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jitsu, savate buoy, knife instruction, naba, all

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of these great things from my great instructor, senior full

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instructor, Armando Basulto, who at one point was the

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east coast regional director for Paul Vunak.

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So yeah, he's a, he's a Vunak guy. So

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from him, you know, I got a lot of that. But

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there's a third piece to my estacada system, which is the health and

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fitness piece, because you know, I basically came up in, in

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the professional world in health and fitness, starting as a trainer, but

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ultimately in executive leadership in some of the top brands in the world.

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So the estacado system is really emerging of

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both the combative benefits elements of martial arts,

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but also the health and lifestyle optimization. I feature

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mostly the combative and martial aspects to it on YouTube

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because there's a lot of great interest there. But there is,

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as Greg Cook, who's the founder of Functional Movement Screen, once said,

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there's a reason why a lot of ancient Chinese masters focus so

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much on their weapons training, especially into their

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older age, because weapons training is a type of

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anti aging. And as a middle aged man, this is very important to

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me. Yeah, hear, hear. I like the

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way you describe it. You definitely got a really solid

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foundation from your father early on and then you went off and explored the

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world literally and figuratively with

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martial arts from. All around the world. And that's one of the reasons, besides your

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charming personality and your warm presence, that's

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one of the reasons I love talking with you because you have a lot of

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knowledge behind the fighting methods,

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behind bowie knives, navajas, these weapons have been fascinated with

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My whole life. Thank you. Thank you for the kind words, my friend. I always

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enjoy talking to you. Absolutely. So recently, I know

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this just from following you on Instagram and YouTube. You had.

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You went on a pretty amazing Illustrio

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Kali venture. Tell me about that.

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Yes. So I've always felt there was something

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always just super functional and super direct about the

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Illustrisimo system. I was in. In. I was exposed

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to it initially by my instructor, Armando Basulto, but the some

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of the primary concepts and some of the primary techniques, then some of

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it later on with somebody who had studied with one of

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the main instructors of Illustrisimo, Mangromi Macapagal. And I

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studied it a little bit with Roy Harris, the Jiu Jitsu

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black belt. But he is actually first and foremost a bladesman.

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That's how he sees himself. Jeet Kundo Man. You know, he was

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actually the vice president for

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Progressive Fighting Systems under Paul Vunak. So that's how I got connected.

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It was through Armando, then Roy. But my first,

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excuse me, real training in Illustrisimo

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was under Burton Richardson. I did maybe about two, maybe even

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maybe three. I don't remember anymore. But it was 15 years ago. And

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he really opened my eyes into not just the

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intricacy of the system, but just the directness of

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it. And he was the one who brought home that this isn't just a

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Filipino martial arts, this is a bladed art. And

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it took me a while to really absorb that. And I'd been

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following Guru Arnold Narzo for the past 10 years on his

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YouTube channel. He is one of my favorite instructors in practically anything,

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is a very, very thorough individual and really knows how to

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display it. And I've messaged him over the years, you know, just briefly here and

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there. Hey, I'm in New York, you know, are you ever going to come, ever?

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Please. And if you do, and I believe this is his first New York stop.

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And I was so impressed not only with

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Guru Arnold Narzo, but also the other

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Illustrisimal guru, Guru Vico Perrine, who you and

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I briefly, briefly ran into when we were standing at the MAR

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booth. He was there. Familiar. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, whoa, I gotta

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talk to him. But he was like, he was in and out, you know, and

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people were talking to him, but he assisted. And I was so

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impressed by it. In that one. The content

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was just so well organized. There was a sense of progression and

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regression. So they provided a wonderful learning

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experience. And this is something that's very rare in martial Arts in

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terms of workshops, because sometimes it can be a little disorganized. It's more

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of an introduction to the system rather than, here

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are the fundamental skill sets that you need in order to

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then progress you into the intermediate in advance. And I

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got a little. I would say it was three hours, but I got this

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wonderful broad picture of it. And it was in addition to

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some of the knowledge that I'd received from Armando Roy Harris and also

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Burton Richardson. Yeah, I remember Burt Richardson. His.

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His Modern Martial Arts regular

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column, Bert Offerings. Yes. And then his videos on the

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beach. Man, I was like, this guy's living the life. How. How would you

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define Illustrisimo, you know, to someone who might have

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a. A glancing knowledge of Filipino martial arts? Yes. I

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would say that, number one, it is a Filipino martial arts. It is

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strictly Filipino martial art. Number two, unlike most

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Filipino martial arts, it is unapologetically a bladed

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martial art. So the first thing they introduce you to

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is a Filipino blade. And I'm going to. Since

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I have it handy here, I'm going to use as a very good

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example. This guy has seen

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so much video in the past few months. This

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wonderful Adam Boyce designed tops

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ginunting the X16. And one thing

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that I did point out in some of my. Probably my first. I think

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it was my first episode on my YouTube channel, and it was

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wonderfully illustrated by Guru Arnold in the

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workshop, is that a bladed system, like

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the Illustrisimo system, is

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differentiated from other Filipino martial arts because of the

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handle ergonomics of the sword. I'm gonna quote

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paraphrase Guru Arnold here in that, and I

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made similar observations, but I'm gonna take it primarily from the

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workshop. He talked about how the stick has a

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circular handle. Right. And when you

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have a circular handle, the wrist can have a lot of

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play. So you can do strikes like the Redondo,

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where it circles like this. So you can hit with the back of the

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blade, and you can even hit with the side of the blade. But it's

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because it's a rounded stick, for as long as it has some sort of impact,

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it's okay. But if you're taking a look at a blade,

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there's a greater consideration for its makeup and design,

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because there are parts of it that are really sharp, parts of it that

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are not, parts of it that are a little stronger because it's a little

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wider and maybe even a little thicker, and parts of it that's going to

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be a little thinner. So you're not just going to block

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and not think about where it's going to land because your sword

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can break. But the third part of it that I love that

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he highlighted because of that edge alignment is

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so critical in Illustrisimo that their entire

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posture and where the hand aligns through the shoulder

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is out of respect for the fact that the

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edge of the sword is pointing in a very specific way.

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And as a result of it, I'm of the mind that

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their postures and biomechanics and their motor control

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is negotiating around that specific

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piece of the sword. This is not something that you see with stick based

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martial arts. And as a result of it, when you look at an

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Illustrisimo person, they move always with the edge

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forward versus a stick oriented person may take

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a sword like this and they start doing more stick based like

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Redondo Witttix, they start to twirl. And Guru

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Arnold actually addressed this. He said, you know who a stick

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based Filipino martial artist is? You give him a sword, they start twirling

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it. And I was like, yeah, that's true. That's actually true because

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that's the first thing you see. So because those are

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the. To me, you know, to me those are the

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main features of it. They have a lot of emphasis with the

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espada idaga, also with the, with the knife as well. This is a

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very wonderful example of what a good daga is. This is a

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Calvin Richardson designed. Work, work, tough, steadfast.

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L the large. This, you know, if you have something like

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this, it's beautiful. Compare, you know, and you have it with an

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X16. This is a beautiful combo. This one I'm going to do a review

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of very soon. But Illustrisimo, they have a

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wonderful template. I'm going to say template, not style,

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but they have wonderful templates. So that whether you're

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beginner, intermediate or advanced, there's a way for you to

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progress or regress your skill set, depending on

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your level of comfort and your level of proficiency. I love

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this system very much. It is also very different from the

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Kabbalah's system, but also very different from the DSON system.

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Very different principles, but just something I really

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adore and I really enjoy learning and I hope to continue to

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train in some in this system for the rest of my life.

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So something that always was on top of mind

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for me when doing stick. More stick work

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in, in the Kali I did, which is illustrationo

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or I should say

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Guru Dan Inosanto Lacoste. Yeah, Innocento La Cost. Yes.

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Was, was whenever I was doing something stick I was

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conscious trying to remain conscious of where that edge would be because for

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me, the stick was always a proxy for the blade.

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Yeah, I always have blades on the mind and, and, and it always

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did kind of occur to me. I guess you could do a wit tick, for

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instance, but you'd be slapping someone with the side of the blade. And is that

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efficient? Is that worth your energy when you're, when you're fighting someone

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with a sword? Probably not. Unless you play out class. Yeah,

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probably not. So you, you mentioned a template versus

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a style. Yeah. So it's, it's. I

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love the question because I think that there, most

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styles are really a collection of techniques, right. You

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know, this is, there's offense and then there's defense.

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This is the basic offense, this is the basic defense. Then

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we show you intermediate, then it show you a little bit more advanced.

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So a system really tends to be a collection

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of, of knowledge or a collection of techniques. And the reason why

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Bruce Lee was very anti style is that

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what tends to happen with a system being a collection of techniques is

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that there's, there's a lot of lost context in it, meaning it's

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combative application. And if there is a combative application,

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it's usually against someone of a similar style.

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Right. You're really only fighting like judo, which I love.

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Really, they only tend to train against other judo people. Right, right.

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And there's this throw and then there's that throw, and then before you

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know it, once. The problem with the system is that people who are in a

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system, they have preferences. Well, I like this technique

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and I like chaining this technique with that technique. And I'm going to

246
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reference Brazilian Jiu jitsu. You're if before you know it, I'm gonna

247
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build a game around my triangle, which becomes an

248
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omoplata, which becomes a back tape. Right. Or you'll have

249
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guys who are like, okay, you know, I'm going to be a little more, you

250
00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:41.290
know, I'm going to fake the pulling guard, then take the ankle and then get

251
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on top. Right. But then it becomes a matter of you just taking your

252
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favorite techniques and then you say,

253
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well, I don't care for the rest of it. The rest of it is garbage.

254
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So now you have people out there with black belts and instructorships who are passing

255
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on incomplete knowledge. So it's not a knowledge transmission.

256
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A template is when all of these techniques are

257
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contextualized. So a good example of this, and this

258
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is what I loved about the how it was taught in Illustrisimo. It

259
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Reminded me of Shinkage. Shinkage Two man set.

260
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And whenever you're doing a two man set in Shinkargiryu,

261
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when I was training in it, I thought my brain was exploding

262
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every time I went to class because I would draw be stopped. And sensei

263
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or one of my senpai would say, this little detail here, move your

264
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hand here. And I'd say, why? Why is my hand there? Let me

265
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demonstrate. Before you know it, there's a difference between getting the sword slapped

266
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out of my hand versus me getting thrown, right?

267
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So when you have a template, you have context.

268
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And then once you have that context, sensei or senpai can

269
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walk in and kind of go, let me show you this. Let me show you

270
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this, man. And then before. So now there's a context so

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that the variations can be inserted, Right? Versus

272
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Technique one, Technique two, Technique three, and then repeat.

273
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Illustrisimo was like this. I loved how they progress. This is

274
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Retirada. This is the footwork. This is the Redonda. Now

275
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we're gonna put these together. And this is how the guy is going to attack.

276
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And then this is how the guy's going to attack. Now I'm going to do

277
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.969
it this way. And before you knew it, they were progressing you

278
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through not just the combative application, but the

279
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knowledge itself. You were experiencing the knowledge. It was so

280
00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:32.289
well executed because it wasn't just pattern

281
00:17:32.289 --> 00:17:35.809
recognition. It wasn't like just memorizing a multiplication

282
00:17:35.809 --> 00:17:39.449
table. It's them actually putting me through a

283
00:17:39.529 --> 00:17:43.209
learning experience or like an lms, like a learning management system.

284
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It. And they answered all of our questions. I mean, I'm going to

285
00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:51.260
have this. I'm going to put this little asterisk. Since they're Filipino and I'm

286
00:17:51.260 --> 00:17:55.100
Filipino, I'd say 70% of the attendees were Filipino. So

287
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every now and then I'll say something in Tagaloga, sir,

288
00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:03.020
which means, what does the technique planchada mean? And then everybody, all

289
00:18:03.020 --> 00:18:06.580
the other Filipinos will go, you know, oh, he speaks

290
00:18:06.580 --> 00:18:10.260
Tagalog. And Filipinos are we. When we hear our

291
00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:13.500
mother tongue, it's like music to us. So we all kind of. Oh, we drop

292
00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:16.480
everything when we hear it. And it was kind of like that. And they would

293
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answer like, they would have these beautiful smiles and it would just go, oh,

294
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panchata, this is what it means. And we'd all kind of go, oh,

295
00:18:23.560 --> 00:18:27.360
yeah, I get it now. So it was very enjoyable. I highly

296
00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:30.440
recommend it. I can't wait for them to do this U.S. circuit again.

297
00:18:31.800 --> 00:18:35.640
Okay, we're Going to talk about the knives. You. You teased a

298
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:38.920
few of them. But before we get to that, I know that you've been

299
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.880
really looking deeply and this is something I was mentioning up front. You don't

300
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.640
just show off knives. You. You really make studies of them

301
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:49.880
and you. You create actual episodes, not just

302
00:18:51.080 --> 00:18:54.920
short videos. And I really appreciate that you've been really

303
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.880
investigating or going down the

304
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.760
tomahawk rabbit hole lately.

305
00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:06.120
How, how similar are

306
00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:09.780
the thought processes between fighting with a

307
00:19:09.780 --> 00:19:13.300
knife, for instance, or a short sword, and fighting with a tomahawk.

308
00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:17.020
So the first thing to consider with the tomahawk, it's basically a

309
00:19:17.020 --> 00:19:20.820
Filipino martial arts. Stick with. And this is. I'm going

310
00:19:20.820 --> 00:19:24.260
to show you the. The RMJ

311
00:19:24.260 --> 00:19:27.820
Shrike. Right. I love that. Yeah, this, this is so

312
00:19:27.820 --> 00:19:31.660
beautifully done. It is so light and. But it's like a stick. Like

313
00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:35.140
you're holding a stick. There's some narrowing to it. And it was

314
00:19:35.140 --> 00:19:38.740
intentionally done because they want it so that if

315
00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:42.460
you're fighting this way, you're doing your angles and, I don't know, you're surrounded

316
00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:46.260
by enemy combatants and you're just fighting off everybody. Even if it spins

317
00:19:46.260 --> 00:19:49.780
in your hand, you won't feel a difference between

318
00:19:50.100 --> 00:19:53.900
hitting with the spike versus hitting with the tomahawk and also with the

319
00:19:53.900 --> 00:19:57.620
beard. So it's so wonderfully done by

320
00:19:57.620 --> 00:20:01.460
Rian Johnson. This is a wonderful gift, but it

321
00:20:01.620 --> 00:20:05.080
handles a lot like a stick. But,

322
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:09.240
and I mentioned this in one of my episodes, the fundamental

323
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.000
advantage of a tomahawk like the rmj.

324
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.200
Right. And also the other one that is

325
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:21.000
truly top tier, you're looking at the Winkler

326
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.520
R and D designed by mastersmith Daniel Winkler and also

327
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:29.000
Tuhan Rafael Kayanan of. Of Psyop Tactical Group,

328
00:20:29.580 --> 00:20:33.420
is that. You see how this one is multi sectioned. Yeah. Right.

329
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.100
Versus this one, which is straight.

330
00:20:38.060 --> 00:20:41.580
The fundamental advantage of a tomahawk

331
00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:45.580
versus, let's say, let me take out one of my

332
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:49.700
wonderful knives here. Okay. And this was cool because this

333
00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:53.260
is the Jeff Schaefer Schaefer chopper buoy.

334
00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:57.200
It's really hard to say Schaefer chopper I

335
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.800
end up butchering like Shaper Chaffer, you know?

336
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.000
Well, and his episode is on today. His Forged in Fire episode. Oh,

337
00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.840
yeah. It's tonight. Yeah. So I'm, I'm. He's such a cool guy.

338
00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:12.560
And he's the knife maker for Master at Arms, James

339
00:21:12.560 --> 00:21:16.360
Keating. Oh, yes. So I'm. I'm

340
00:21:16.360 --> 00:21:20.000
really dealing with a heavyweight here. Right. So you have

341
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:23.720
this wonderful buoy, and when I spoke to him about it, I Said,

342
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:27.560
hey, this is wonderful, but it handles a little

343
00:21:27.560 --> 00:21:31.400
bit like a Barong. He goes, yeah, I've always kind of wanted to build

344
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:35.160
a Barong, but I don't think that was his intention.

345
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.480
But I think a little bit of the Barong came out of this. But if

346
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.000
you compare it to a tomahawk, you see how much bigger this chopper is. Look

347
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.720
at that. Yeah, that is so intimidating. But the fundamental

348
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.390
difference is this has a multi section graph

349
00:21:49.540 --> 00:21:53.140
grip. So I can go from long, middle,

350
00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:57.060
and then short range. I cannot do that

351
00:21:57.700 --> 00:22:00.740
with a buoy knife because the handle is fixed.

352
00:22:01.300 --> 00:22:04.740
So once I handle a knife, this is it.

353
00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:08.020
I'm stuck here. Unless I'm super

354
00:22:08.180 --> 00:22:11.940
ambidextrous under pressure in high threshold

355
00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:15.700
environment, I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not gonna bet

356
00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:19.420
on it If I need to let go and I need to

357
00:22:19.420 --> 00:22:23.060
multi section. Why is multisectioning important? Because

358
00:22:23.060 --> 00:22:26.700
a fight is dynamic. It's very fluid. Before

359
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.420
you know it, it's one people, one person, two person, three person. And

360
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:33.900
sometimes, and we know this in the Philippines, we have a term called

361
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:37.740
agawan. They fight for it, right? And what

362
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:41.540
tends to happen is that now you have to kind of hand it off. And

363
00:22:41.540 --> 00:22:44.580
Felicisi Mudizan's system of Muhara is about,

364
00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:48.500
if one, if I get injured on this hand, yeah, I gotta hand it off,

365
00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:52.580
but I gotta hand it off in a way where if I grab anywhere,

366
00:22:53.060 --> 00:22:56.820
I'm not gonna end up mistakenly doing something stupid like this,

367
00:22:57.540 --> 00:23:01.139
right? So the fundamental advantage of the

368
00:23:01.139 --> 00:23:04.860
tomahawk is where I land. If I have to do

369
00:23:04.860 --> 00:23:08.660
this, I can hand it off, but it also changes the range. The thing I

370
00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:12.420
particularly love, and I think it was intentional on the part of

371
00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:16.240
To Han Raf Kayanan, is that this curve right here

372
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.040
lands exactly right where my hand is.

373
00:23:21.760 --> 00:23:25.320
And this part of it, the spike, does not bite

374
00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:29.040
into my flesh. So what I've started to do,

375
00:23:29.280 --> 00:23:32.680
which is to integrate it with the Muhara curriculum of Kabila and

376
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.520
Tagalog. Kabila and means to switch. Sometimes you get into

377
00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:39.840
this kind of fight, but then you hand it off here. And now it's a

378
00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:42.820
bit of a karandit. It's like a karambic.

379
00:23:43.300 --> 00:23:46.940
Yeah. So you're here, fight, fight. You're getting into a fight. I love

380
00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:50.780
this part of it because this rounds off and it

381
00:23:50.780 --> 00:23:54.340
fits right under the mandible. Why is that important? Because

382
00:23:54.580 --> 00:23:58.260
since it's rounded, if I try to come off of it, because I'm

383
00:23:58.260 --> 00:24:02.020
applying forward pressure, it, if I keep following him,

384
00:24:02.020 --> 00:24:05.740
by rounding it, it's hard to come off. I've tried it on several

385
00:24:05.740 --> 00:24:08.990
people and I've had them do it to me. All they have to do is

386
00:24:08.990 --> 00:24:12.830
this, this and this. It's hard once that forward pressure is applied.

387
00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:16.710
This is different with a straight tomahawk because there's a way to just

388
00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:20.190
come off of it because the angle is incorrect. But if I apply forward

389
00:24:20.190 --> 00:24:23.950
pressure. Angle, angle, getting close. Forward pressure.

390
00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:27.630
Or I can come down here. Forward pressure, right. But if I go one, two,

391
00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:31.070
I'm going in. And then forward pressure, switch it off

392
00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:34.920
to here. I go low, right? I go low down here

393
00:24:35.080 --> 00:24:38.800
while I control with half plumb up here. Now I can secure. Now I

394
00:24:38.800 --> 00:24:42.200
have the person and. But this was designed for a.

395
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:46.640
The military personnel. So it's not like I have to hold the

396
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.280
person in the street because I'm carrying a Winkler R and D on me. But

397
00:24:50.280 --> 00:24:53.920
it just so happens that if you had to go, go, go, go, go.

398
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.680
Switch to your sidearm. Go, go, go. You. You just fell into that

399
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.400
situation. Go, go, go, bathroom, sidearm to it. Now you're in this position.

400
00:25:01.950 --> 00:25:05.710
Now you can use this to strip. This isn't like some sort of official

401
00:25:05.790 --> 00:25:09.630
curriculum. If it is, I didn't receive it that way. This is just me

402
00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:13.310
integrating what I know of the Felicisi Modiza

403
00:25:13.310 --> 00:25:16.750
Mohara template and applying it to a tomahawk. That's why I love

404
00:25:17.950 --> 00:25:21.630
the tomahawk. I've been exposed to other systems as well.

405
00:25:21.950 --> 00:25:25.550
There is a lot of hand switching, but the R and D

406
00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:29.290
is a very, very good way of integrating it.

407
00:25:29.370 --> 00:25:32.250
And the other one I want to show you because I'm really getting into it.

408
00:25:33.050 --> 00:25:36.570
Andreas Tius, he created this one, is a

409
00:25:36.810 --> 00:25:40.650
prototype. I. My most recent episode is of this

410
00:25:40.650 --> 00:25:43.530
one. Yeah, this is a TRC Viking axe.

411
00:25:44.250 --> 00:25:47.890
Yeah, I know this it. But what's

412
00:25:47.890 --> 00:25:50.410
crazy is that normally Viking axes,

413
00:25:52.250 --> 00:25:55.950
this is mentioned in De Cuerdas a little bit where there's like a

414
00:25:55.950 --> 00:25:59.670
clock system. So you have noon, you know, nine o', clock, three o'. Clock.

415
00:25:59.830 --> 00:26:03.670
But this was also highlighted in the Illustrisimo system when Guru

416
00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:07.270
Arnold taught it, like, you know, noon, 11, 10, all the way down to

417
00:26:07.270 --> 00:26:10.870
here. In. In the Illustrisimo system, they have

418
00:26:11.030 --> 00:26:14.870
a type of strike called al dabis. And aldabis

419
00:26:15.110 --> 00:26:18.950
is when the sword goes past that horizontal.

420
00:26:19.750 --> 00:26:23.190
And now it's down here like seven o', clock, eight o'. Clock. And now you're

421
00:26:23.190 --> 00:26:27.030
coming on the groin, the femoral, the knee, it's like all the way

422
00:26:27.030 --> 00:26:30.110
inside, right? And what tends to happen

423
00:26:30.830 --> 00:26:34.350
with heavier swords like the one I was just using

424
00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:38.910
that plays into the Illustrisimo system. This beautiful

425
00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:42.590
Viking tomahawk because of that extra beard does

426
00:26:42.590 --> 00:26:46.430
not have that meaning. Typically a Viking axe

427
00:26:46.830 --> 00:26:50.550
is a little heavier. So when I do this it's gonna keep falling towards

428
00:26:50.550 --> 00:26:54.390
a seven o', clock, eight o' clock angle. Andreas

429
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:58.070
did something. It's not completely full tang but

430
00:26:58.070 --> 00:27:01.750
he did it so that if I go here it stops neutral

431
00:27:02.630 --> 00:27:06.430
right parallel to the horizon. And this is an

432
00:27:06.430 --> 00:27:09.990
important detail because now I can use some of the

433
00:27:10.470 --> 00:27:14.310
Barong template because the Barong template tends to come

434
00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:17.960
in here and then I fulcrum across or I come

435
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.800
in here and I fulcrum across. The thing I. The thing

436
00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:24.160
I love about this is that he made that.

437
00:27:25.520 --> 00:27:28.920
It's the balance of it in such a way where even if I hold it

438
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.320
here there's a substantial different distance between the spike

439
00:27:32.560 --> 00:27:36.000
and my flesh. So I'm never worried about this.

440
00:27:36.320 --> 00:27:40.040
Like me poking myself accidentally because he balanced it

441
00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:43.690
so well. Uh so this. So having

442
00:27:44.410 --> 00:27:47.930
this Viking axe, slightly curved handle RMJ

443
00:27:47.930 --> 00:27:51.450
shrike with a very straight handle and then when you have

444
00:27:52.490 --> 00:27:55.770
the fantastically multi segmented but

445
00:27:55.770 --> 00:27:59.570
angled R and D wrinkler to me is

446
00:27:59.570 --> 00:28:03.330
that spectrum of the type of Tomahawk methodologies that

447
00:28:03.330 --> 00:28:07.050
are available to us. And that's where my studies are taking me right

448
00:28:07.050 --> 00:28:09.870
now as it relates to the tomahawk. And do you have a preference?

449
00:28:11.230 --> 00:28:14.190
I don't yet. I. I'm. And it's because.

450
00:28:15.790 --> 00:28:18.990
It's because I. I've studied Musashi for so long

451
00:28:19.470 --> 00:28:23.150
and his main admonition is never have a favorite

452
00:28:23.150 --> 00:28:26.670
weapon. Never. Never. And it's. And his.

453
00:28:26.990 --> 00:28:30.190
His logic and it's so practical is that

454
00:28:30.590 --> 00:28:34.310
you can be jumped at any time and if you're jump and

455
00:28:34.310 --> 00:28:37.890
your mind goes to your favorite. But you left your favorite at the house or

456
00:28:37.890 --> 00:28:41.210
in the car or you loaned it to your best friend. But.

457
00:28:41.690 --> 00:28:45.210
But you're not so favorite. But very handy. You know.

458
00:28:45.690 --> 00:28:49.330
Brand new tomahawk from Andreas Tritius is there you're going to

459
00:28:49.330 --> 00:28:52.930
hesitate and when you hesitate that's when they get to jump on

460
00:28:52.930 --> 00:28:56.570
you. I. I read that somewhere recently. I think it was a. It

461
00:28:56.570 --> 00:29:00.290
was detours. The silat master, he said that the

462
00:29:00.290 --> 00:29:04.010
idea of silat is never let the other guy build his momentum

463
00:29:04.270 --> 00:29:07.590
because when he attacks there's going to be a second and a third. And if

464
00:29:07.590 --> 00:29:10.750
you're still looking for your favorite he might be on the fifth attack.

465
00:29:11.230 --> 00:29:14.990
Right? Yes. But. Yeah. So you don't want that so be,

466
00:29:14.990 --> 00:29:18.350
always be ready with what happens to be around you.

467
00:29:18.510 --> 00:29:22.350
Yeah. And don't regret not bringing the huge navaja. You

468
00:29:22.350 --> 00:29:26.070
might just. I know, I know. And I happen to have the navaja

469
00:29:26.070 --> 00:29:29.310
here. And yeah, it's the more modern one.

470
00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:33.500
So this one is the Espada Espada xl, which is a very

471
00:29:33.500 --> 00:29:37.260
great approximation of the traditional Nevaja in terms

472
00:29:37.260 --> 00:29:40.860
of its size. But a big part of my study around this is

473
00:29:40.860 --> 00:29:44.340
again, handle ergonomics. It's, I

474
00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:48.220
believe, one of the few, if not the only knife designed

475
00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:51.140
where a big part of it is this wonderful tail.

476
00:29:51.780 --> 00:29:55.580
And this tail here, you know, I've, I've explored it and

477
00:29:55.580 --> 00:29:58.140
there's a lot of it that has to do with, okay, you know, you can

478
00:29:58.140 --> 00:30:01.510
two handed. Okay, that's fine. If you need that extra reach,

479
00:30:01.590 --> 00:30:05.430
that's fine. Being able to swing across, that's fine. But

480
00:30:05.830 --> 00:30:09.030
a big part of my exploration now is, well,

481
00:30:10.710 --> 00:30:14.470
I only recently remembered because I, I, I used to

482
00:30:14.470 --> 00:30:17.990
run a, a big school, Jeet Kune Do School,

483
00:30:18.230 --> 00:30:21.670
and I didn't realize so many of my students were like in Special

484
00:30:21.670 --> 00:30:25.390
Forces. So every now and then I'll get a message and we got to talking

485
00:30:25.390 --> 00:30:28.930
about, well, what are you carrying? And we got to talking about, well, what,

486
00:30:29.090 --> 00:30:32.530
what's favored, what's not. We talk a little bit about the sock tea,

487
00:30:32.610 --> 00:30:35.890
what's available to them. And I am working

488
00:30:36.850 --> 00:30:40.690
a little bit with Dirk Pinkerton around the

489
00:30:40.690 --> 00:30:44.290
culprit, right, because you introduced me to him, right. And the culprit really

490
00:30:44.290 --> 00:30:47.850
stood out because if you take a look at the handle here, right, you see

491
00:30:47.850 --> 00:30:51.330
that, that little thing going on here, this little bend

492
00:30:52.130 --> 00:30:55.250
that comes from the navaha,

493
00:30:55.890 --> 00:30:59.570
right? You have this. Why

494
00:30:59.570 --> 00:31:03.170
is that important? It's important because there's something

495
00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:07.330
about, when you draw, there's something about this

496
00:31:07.330 --> 00:31:11.090
little portion that kind of helps, that helps with that

497
00:31:11.090 --> 00:31:14.930
draw. And I'm kind of exploring that right now.

498
00:31:15.490 --> 00:31:18.320
It seems to be a thing that's,

499
00:31:20.080 --> 00:31:23.640
that designers are working with like the Civivi Modern

500
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:27.040
Hunter. I saw Melissa Backwoods feature it recently on her

501
00:31:27.040 --> 00:31:29.960
Instagram and I was like, hey, look at that, look at the tail, what's going

502
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.240
on there? Right? For the eight series.

503
00:31:33.439 --> 00:31:36.600
Yeah, yeah. So you take a look at that, right? That same thing, that kind

504
00:31:36.600 --> 00:31:40.360
of hook. So I'm exploring what that design means in terms of the

505
00:31:40.360 --> 00:31:44.200
draw, in terms of the retention. But there's something else going on with the

506
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.800
Navaja in terms of just how

507
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:51.760
this is a bit of a curve, there's a

508
00:31:51.760 --> 00:31:55.600
Bit of a curve downwards. Right. And if I'm not mistaken, I

509
00:31:55.600 --> 00:31:59.360
think the bond talk, it used to be called the bond

510
00:31:59.360 --> 00:32:02.920
talk. I think Raf Kayanan designed it originally for Dan

511
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:06.760
Winkler, where that curve comes down.

512
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:11.360
And that's critical because not only does it allow

513
00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:14.990
for a better draw, it's better alignment with the bones

514
00:32:15.230 --> 00:32:18.990
for the thrust. So I'm doing a lot of exploration and a lot of conversation

515
00:32:18.990 --> 00:32:22.630
with Dirk Pinkerton in terms of, well, if we were to do something,

516
00:32:22.630 --> 00:32:25.710
what would that look like? But I think it's going to come down to

517
00:32:26.510 --> 00:32:30.230
something like the navaja structure. It's going to be some, you know, we're,

518
00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:33.670
we're going to be working off of the culprit, but also what the navaja structure

519
00:32:33.670 --> 00:32:37.310
is. But at any rate, the point of all this is. Yes, you know,

520
00:32:37.390 --> 00:32:40.780
I'm very deep into studying nowadays.

521
00:32:40.780 --> 00:32:43.740
Tomahawk bowie knife, Navaja

522
00:32:43.820 --> 00:32:47.620
illustrisimo. As you can see, the. Well, it

523
00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:51.300
warms the cockles in my heart that you're working with Dirk Pinkerton, who's. I mean,

524
00:32:51.300 --> 00:32:55.100
to me he's, he's an incredible maker and designer. But the two of

525
00:32:55.100 --> 00:32:58.340
you together sounds like a match made in heaven. Something I love about the

526
00:32:58.340 --> 00:33:01.900
navaja is this. I have an old one right here.

527
00:33:02.620 --> 00:33:06.420
Oh, is, is. Which one is that one? Is that a joker or. No,

528
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:09.830
no, this is something my brother got me. It's

529
00:33:11.750 --> 00:33:15.270
Albania. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like,

530
00:33:15.430 --> 00:33:17.910
not so much on this because it's so large, but on the

531
00:33:19.030 --> 00:33:22.710
large size espada. I like that you can put your.

532
00:33:23.030 --> 00:33:26.670
You have this sort of sub hill thing and it goes into your

533
00:33:26.670 --> 00:33:28.950
palm in such a way that on a thrust

534
00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:33.990
connects with your arm. Yes. How else to put it? But you can really back

535
00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:37.650
up a thrust with the structure of your forearm.

536
00:33:38.130 --> 00:33:41.970
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a. There's a lot going on with the navaja

537
00:33:41.970 --> 00:33:45.450
and it's, it's a very unique knife

538
00:33:45.450 --> 00:33:49.210
methodology. Yeah. Last time you're on, you explained

539
00:33:49.210 --> 00:33:53.010
a little bit of the cloak and dagger aspect. Yeah, yeah.

540
00:33:54.050 --> 00:33:57.810
You think that that translates to modern day? It's.

541
00:33:59.090 --> 00:34:02.020
It really does and it's some. It's one of the

542
00:34:03.220 --> 00:34:06.940
definitive features of the Estacada system in that there's

543
00:34:06.940 --> 00:34:10.660
a very great study in what I call lead shoulder

544
00:34:10.660 --> 00:34:14.380
dynamics. Because if, let's say, which knife am

545
00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:17.860
I going to work with here? You know what, let's. Let's work with this one.

546
00:34:18.340 --> 00:34:21.620
This, the one that we've been talking about quite a bit.

547
00:34:21.940 --> 00:34:25.740
We're looking at the Bobby Rains firechild. And he calls it the Fire

548
00:34:25.740 --> 00:34:28.930
Child because it's an homage to the Hell's Bell.

549
00:34:29.730 --> 00:34:33.490
And you have really. What defines

550
00:34:33.650 --> 00:34:37.290
weaponry as it relates to position, right? Position

551
00:34:37.290 --> 00:34:40.890
and posture. In my system, we have an

552
00:34:40.890 --> 00:34:43.970
acronym called dapat, D A, P, P, A, T.

553
00:34:44.530 --> 00:34:48.250
And DAPAT in Tagalog means must. So these are the six

554
00:34:48.250 --> 00:34:51.730
musts. So there's a distance, angle, posture,

555
00:34:51.890 --> 00:34:55.270
position, attribute, and timing. So when we're talking about

556
00:34:55.510 --> 00:34:59.270
your position and your posture, we're. We're talking about several things,

557
00:34:59.270 --> 00:35:03.110
but one of the key features is lead shoulder dynamics,

558
00:35:03.110 --> 00:35:06.830
meaning you only have really three of them. You have

559
00:35:06.830 --> 00:35:10.670
the weapon forward, you have the weapon square, the

560
00:35:10.670 --> 00:35:14.230
shoulder squared, or the weapon in the back.

561
00:35:14.310 --> 00:35:18.110
And now whatever happens to be in this hand, you

562
00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:21.780
know, now you're looking at very, very different dynamics. Right.

563
00:35:22.340 --> 00:35:24.660
So when we're talking about,

564
00:35:26.100 --> 00:35:29.900
you know, how cloak and dagger comes into play, what you. We're

565
00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:33.380
really talking about is, well, which shoulder is doing the leading,

566
00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:36.820
Right? Why is cloak and dagger something still

567
00:35:37.140 --> 00:35:40.860
so prevalent? You know, I think you might have heard

568
00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:44.340
this. It's. I. And if I'm not mistaken, it could be from

569
00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:49.580
the jailhouse. The. I forgot the

570
00:35:50.220 --> 00:35:53.860
piper, or not piper, like Whiz. Is it 52

571
00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:57.540
blocks? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that one. I. I forgot how many

572
00:35:57.540 --> 00:36:01.100
blocks there are, but I think it's 52. I think I could be

573
00:36:01.100 --> 00:36:04.820
wrong, but they have something called sewing machine. And

574
00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:08.060
sewing machine is the weapon is in the back,

575
00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:12.350
this is in the front, and this goes up

576
00:36:12.670 --> 00:36:16.510
and down and up and down. And

577
00:36:16.510 --> 00:36:20.150
that's with what's called rear shoulder dynamics, meaning the

578
00:36:20.150 --> 00:36:23.950
weapon is in the bag. This stood out to me. I

579
00:36:23.950 --> 00:36:27.710
was. It is 52 blocks. And what stood out to me was

580
00:36:27.790 --> 00:36:31.550
when Guru Arnold was talking about this in

581
00:36:31.550 --> 00:36:35.190
the workshop, not the 52 blocks itself, he said, you know, in the

582
00:36:35.190 --> 00:36:38.510
Philippines, he said, if they're gonna kill you with a sword,

583
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.920
they're not going to come at you like. It's like it's a Filipino stick

584
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:46.560
with it forward. When he demonstrated it, the sword was in the back like this.

585
00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:50.080
And it's just marching towards you like this, right?

586
00:36:50.720 --> 00:36:54.440
Yeah. So. So. So the concept of cloak

587
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:58.160
and dagger is really about the weapon is in the back.

588
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:02.720
And what that does is that the lead shoulder actually

589
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:06.710
either draws an attack, right? Draws them in so that they're

590
00:37:06.710 --> 00:37:10.150
out of position, or pulls them into a different kind of

591
00:37:10.150 --> 00:37:13.950
range. There's a. It's also part of one of the forms

592
00:37:13.950 --> 00:37:17.710
in the shin kagery. I believe it's the. I think it's the

593
00:37:17.710 --> 00:37:21.389
Ito Ryodan two man set, where the sword is here,

594
00:37:21.389 --> 00:37:24.110
and then they lead with the shoulder when it's really like, hey, come here and

595
00:37:24.110 --> 00:37:27.710
come get me. And then, wow, they do something fantastic with the

596
00:37:27.710 --> 00:37:31.430
sword. So the cloak and dagger concept is less

597
00:37:31.430 --> 00:37:35.140
about the cloak, but how the weapon hand is in

598
00:37:35.140 --> 00:37:38.700
the back. And now you have this whole other template to work

599
00:37:38.700 --> 00:37:42.140
with. So the. Essentially, the cloak is a. Is a shield

600
00:37:42.940 --> 00:37:46.100
or a way to protect the arm, but it's also a way to hide the

601
00:37:46.100 --> 00:37:49.660
knife. Yeah, it. To hide in the one

602
00:37:49.660 --> 00:37:52.940
that every now and then I play with. I think I saw Bobby do this

603
00:37:52.940 --> 00:37:56.740
a couple of times where you do a back cut, snap

604
00:37:56.740 --> 00:38:00.580
cut, back cut, snap, cut. And then you do. This is in salvat. This is

605
00:38:00.580 --> 00:38:03.900
called decalage, where you turn your body, like,

606
00:38:04.220 --> 00:38:07.980
completely 90 degrees to the guy. So back cut, back cut.

607
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:11.660
See the right shoulder here? Back cut, thrust, snap, cut, whichever. But then

608
00:38:11.660 --> 00:38:15.379
there's a movement I do sometimes, you know, in sparring, where I do a

609
00:38:15.379 --> 00:38:19.060
decalage, which is from savat. Now my shoulder's leading

610
00:38:19.060 --> 00:38:22.060
this way, and the bowie knife is tucked over here.

611
00:38:22.780 --> 00:38:26.430
Now you're not sure is it gonna

612
00:38:26.430 --> 00:38:30.230
thrust up, is it gonna reverso, or is it gonna back cut?

613
00:38:30.870 --> 00:38:34.150
Or worse yet, as I hear now, I switch it off to the left.

614
00:38:34.390 --> 00:38:38.110
Yeah. These are explorations. These are explorations. And these are

615
00:38:38.110 --> 00:38:41.589
things I've seen inspiring. And I'll share the story with you.

616
00:38:41.750 --> 00:38:45.430
I believe the term for it in the Navaja is called the. The pasara Soto.

617
00:38:46.150 --> 00:38:49.830
Passata. Soto is when fighting. Fighting, not only do you

618
00:38:49.830 --> 00:38:53.280
switch hands, you change levels. So you pretend to trip.

619
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.200
You're like, oh, I'm gonna trip. And then you go. You stab him this way.

620
00:38:57.600 --> 00:39:01.440
And I'm not gonna say which tournament this was, but

621
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.200
this Navajo methodology worked so well that

622
00:39:06.080 --> 00:39:09.840
every guy that we threw into the knife tournament, they altered first

623
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:13.600
place, really. But it was. It was specific.

624
00:39:13.600 --> 00:39:17.290
I remember it was specific. It was on the vaja. It

625
00:39:17.290 --> 00:39:21.050
was. Nobody held it, like, in. Nobody did ice

626
00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:24.770
pick. You know, it was like we would do some of the

627
00:39:24.770 --> 00:39:28.450
Reve, some of the Passata Soto, but I didn't train that team. That was my

628
00:39:28.450 --> 00:39:32.130
instructor who trained that team. But it was. It was specific. It was. And there

629
00:39:32.130 --> 00:39:35.890
were pictures like, ah, they're like this, right? It was. It was

630
00:39:35.890 --> 00:39:39.610
really cool. But that goes to show that this idea

631
00:39:39.610 --> 00:39:43.410
of lead shoulder dynamics, when you're thinking weapons, it's

632
00:39:43.410 --> 00:39:46.170
not all always with the weapon in front of you.

633
00:39:46.730 --> 00:39:50.450
Sometimes that lead shoulder will square up.

634
00:39:50.450 --> 00:39:53.490
This is a little more Filipino martial arts. I'm actually doing an

635
00:39:53.490 --> 00:39:57.130
Illustrisimo posture here. This is a Mohara posture.

636
00:39:57.130 --> 00:40:00.850
The slight variation here, this is where the

637
00:40:00.850 --> 00:40:04.610
hands are equal to each other for a closed position and the edges

638
00:40:04.610 --> 00:40:07.690
in front. The Mohara system, Dizon system.

639
00:40:08.170 --> 00:40:11.570
This goes to the back, it's a little lower and the hand is lower. So

640
00:40:11.570 --> 00:40:15.310
now it's a bait. Because now you don't know if as you come

641
00:40:15.310 --> 00:40:19.110
in, right shoulder, I cut across, or as you come

642
00:40:19.110 --> 00:40:22.910
in, I cut across, but then I switch to the left. Right. It's, it's

643
00:40:22.910 --> 00:40:26.630
a very, very different, unique system, but it's always a

644
00:40:26.630 --> 00:40:30.150
play on. Am I weapon forward shoulder,

645
00:40:30.550 --> 00:40:34.390
Weapon shoulder forward, square shouldered. So I can do

646
00:40:34.390 --> 00:40:38.230
some empty hand, some checking hand, live hand, or is it

647
00:40:38.230 --> 00:40:41.960
the weapon in the back? And I've found that this

648
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:45.760
tends, this position tends to be, at least to my knowledge,

649
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:49.320
very prevalent in the Navaja, But I have recently seen it in

650
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.960
Shinkargariu, but also recently at the Illustrisimo.

651
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:56.760
Workshop and the prison fighting. So, yeah, 52

652
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.760
blocks. Yes. So it's 52 blocks. So it's kind of a

653
00:41:00.080 --> 00:41:03.920
deceptive way of going about it because it's, pardon me,

654
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.130
harder to detect what's happening back here than

655
00:41:07.530 --> 00:41:10.970
appear forward. It is. And it's a,

656
00:41:11.050 --> 00:41:14.730
it's, it's a, it's such a unique study because now you,

657
00:41:15.050 --> 00:41:18.410
your biomechanics, it, it gets confused like,

658
00:41:18.730 --> 00:41:22.449
well, what's my footwork now? And which hand do I go with for

659
00:41:22.449 --> 00:41:26.090
a moment? When I do it for a moment, my brain just kind of says

660
00:41:26.730 --> 00:41:30.330
reset. Right. It's like for a second, like you're watching tv and then the TV

661
00:41:30.490 --> 00:41:33.620
kind of goes off for a second. Yeah. And he kind of wake up. Oh,

662
00:41:33.620 --> 00:41:37.460
I'm, I'm here now. Right. It's. The brain doesn't necessarily

663
00:41:37.540 --> 00:41:41.060
process it as easily. Right. To go from here,

664
00:41:41.620 --> 00:41:44.500
doing my thing and then boom, to go from here.

665
00:41:45.140 --> 00:41:48.980
It's. Now you're like in a completely different template. Not style, but you're

666
00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:52.700
in a different template. All right, so you had out the

667
00:41:52.700 --> 00:41:56.460
fire, you showed us the Shaffer chopper. I want. And

668
00:41:56.460 --> 00:42:00.030
you also have one called the Osprey, I think, which. Oh, yeah, I want to

669
00:42:00.030 --> 00:42:02.950
see that in a second. But just take us through the design of this fire

670
00:42:02.950 --> 00:42:06.790
child. And is this a collaboration with you and Bobby Rains? No, this is out

671
00:42:06.790 --> 00:42:10.630
of his brain. As much as I'd love to say, yeah, I collaborated on

672
00:42:10.630 --> 00:42:14.350
that. Sure. I gave him my two Cents. Now, he, he debuted

673
00:42:14.350 --> 00:42:18.150
this at the Blade show. And it, he, he

674
00:42:18.150 --> 00:42:21.710
pretty much showed me how he thought. And I'm glad because

675
00:42:22.270 --> 00:42:26.100
he'd been watching my videos, you know, being a

676
00:42:26.100 --> 00:42:29.820
big fan of Bagwell's, and he came to Blade show,

677
00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:33.260
and he was like, hey, I want you to see this. This. It's the Fire

678
00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:37.060
Child. I was like, whoa. You know, And I posted it on my social

679
00:42:37.060 --> 00:42:40.700
media. My face. Wow. But he kind of pulled me aside.

680
00:42:41.180 --> 00:42:44.620
There's something else going on here. I said, well, what's going on?

681
00:42:44.780 --> 00:42:48.580
And it's the handle and what he had done. If you take

682
00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:51.910
a look at it, one, the handle curves

683
00:42:52.230 --> 00:42:55.350
a certain way. So now that curve

684
00:42:56.470 --> 00:43:00.310
fills my hand. So this is a man who is very

685
00:43:00.310 --> 00:43:04.030
much not just into the edge design, which is so beautiful that

686
00:43:04.030 --> 00:43:07.830
you have this slight convexing here, V

687
00:43:07.830 --> 00:43:11.430
taper here, but the thing that gets me. And look at that Spanish

688
00:43:11.430 --> 00:43:14.790
notch. Look how beautifully he aligned this here

689
00:43:15.350 --> 00:43:18.820
so that if a knife happens to get caught, that's it. It gets wrenched, right?

690
00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:22.540
Yeah. But what he did, and this is where his ingenuity is, and

691
00:43:22.540 --> 00:43:25.620
that's why I, I, I just enjoy his work so much,

692
00:43:26.100 --> 00:43:29.620
is that this handling here, he did something

693
00:43:29.620 --> 00:43:33.140
special. Notice that there's like two, two

694
00:43:33.140 --> 00:43:36.580
butts to this handle. There's the front, and then there's a back.

695
00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:41.020
What this does, it's so subtle. This

696
00:43:41.020 --> 00:43:44.830
one back here lands on this part of my hand. So when

697
00:43:44.830 --> 00:43:48.550
I do my thrust, it's supported right, right about

698
00:43:48.550 --> 00:43:52.110
here. When I snap cut and I snap cut forward, it

699
00:43:52.110 --> 00:43:55.910
slides up on my hand, and then it comes back, but it

700
00:43:55.910 --> 00:43:59.030
stops on the fleshy part. So he designed that way.

701
00:43:59.910 --> 00:44:03.590
The front part is the real kicker. He showed this to me at Blade Show.

702
00:44:03.910 --> 00:44:07.590
He said, when you do a back cut, go to what we call the back

703
00:44:07.590 --> 00:44:11.370
cut shelf because it's wide, and then it

704
00:44:11.370 --> 00:44:15.170
narrows. So when I'm about to back up, my hand slides up here.

705
00:44:15.650 --> 00:44:18.930
That means that instead of gripping from my

706
00:44:18.930 --> 00:44:22.530
pinky, it now goes to my index finger and thumb,

707
00:44:22.930 --> 00:44:26.650
and that's the bicep line, the pulling. So now when I

708
00:44:26.650 --> 00:44:30.450
back cut, I go from extension. When I'm here, now I'm pulling, which is the

709
00:44:30.450 --> 00:44:33.850
exact mechanism for back cut. But then he said, let go of your

710
00:44:33.850 --> 00:44:37.620
pinky. And you see that front butt over here? Now pull off

711
00:44:37.620 --> 00:44:41.420
this. It goes straight into a snap, just with a pull

712
00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:45.140
of a pinky. So it's like, boom. You eat it.

713
00:44:45.700 --> 00:44:48.100
And the. When he sent this to me,

714
00:44:49.300 --> 00:44:52.300
the first five minutes, after five minutes of Flowing with it. I had to put

715
00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:55.860
it down because my motor control, my nervous system

716
00:44:56.260 --> 00:44:59.780
was just enjoying that dynamic in the hands so much. It was

717
00:44:59.780 --> 00:45:03.220
moving, in my opinion, too fast. It was moving

718
00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:07.220
too fast. My. The. I. I messaged him and I said, you know,

719
00:45:07.220 --> 00:45:11.060
the legs on, the hair on my legs and my. My neck, they're all

720
00:45:11.060 --> 00:45:14.780
standing because I didn't expect, one, that level of

721
00:45:14.780 --> 00:45:18.180
speed, but also, number two, that level of

722
00:45:18.180 --> 00:45:21.540
ergonomic support. So if I need to back cut, it just goes.

723
00:45:21.700 --> 00:45:25.140
It just naturally falls here, and it fires the

724
00:45:25.140 --> 00:45:28.840
bicep line. Wham. Like this. So it's a pulling mechanism, but when

725
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.440
I'm about to snap cut, it lands on the mechanoreceptors. Boom.

726
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:36.080
And now it fires the tricep line. And that bicep.

727
00:45:36.080 --> 00:45:39.880
Tricep dynamic made my nervous system so happy.

728
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:43.440
It's like, dude, like, what. What is this? This is most,

729
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:46.800
like, extra customized for you. I had to put it down.

730
00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:50.600
I had to put it down. I thought this is. And I messaged him. I'm

731
00:45:50.600 --> 00:45:54.440
not. My body's covered in goose pimples because I'm

732
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.410
not used to. To this kind of

733
00:45:58.050 --> 00:46:01.770
detail. So do you think. I don't know if you

734
00:46:01.770 --> 00:46:04.970
can answer this, but do you think that if he were to make, you know,

735
00:46:04.970 --> 00:46:08.690
multiples of that, which hopefully he is. That hopefully this is a new model.

736
00:46:09.730 --> 00:46:13.410
Is it reliant on the deer

737
00:46:13.410 --> 00:46:17.210
horn or the deer antler? Or would he be making this also out of wood,

738
00:46:17.210 --> 00:46:21.050
but making the shape of the head? Because it seems like a stroke of luck

739
00:46:21.050 --> 00:46:24.490
or. Not that it was luck, but he saw the right piece of antler, and

740
00:46:24.490 --> 00:46:28.330
it's like, oh, this is perfect for this use. Is this

741
00:46:28.330 --> 00:46:31.970
something that he would replicate. In wood or whatever? We're talking

742
00:46:31.970 --> 00:46:35.450
about replicating it because this is technically the second one he made.

743
00:46:35.610 --> 00:46:39.370
Oh, okay. This is the second firechild. And because the first time he

744
00:46:39.690 --> 00:46:43.210
let me handle the one he made, the first prototype, I couldn't get out of

745
00:46:43.210 --> 00:46:46.930
my head after the blade show, I was messaging. He's like, dude, I can't get

746
00:46:46.930 --> 00:46:49.860
this thing out of my head because of how.

747
00:46:50.660 --> 00:46:53.940
Because of how intelligently it allowed me to access

748
00:46:54.180 --> 00:46:58.020
the Bagwell Keating back cut template. Again,

749
00:46:58.020 --> 00:47:01.700
there's that word template, right? It allowed me to.

750
00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:05.620
To do it so easily and with such proficiency.

751
00:47:06.020 --> 00:47:09.620
I would like to. I know he can scale it. I

752
00:47:09.620 --> 00:47:13.060
don't know if it's something that he plans do,

753
00:47:13.870 --> 00:47:17.510
uh, in wood. So.

754
00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:20.950
Okay, this is a. This is gonna sound strange, but it. It's a question that

755
00:47:20.950 --> 00:47:24.670
Just popped into my head. If you had to duel heaven to the.

756
00:47:24.750 --> 00:47:28.550
You had to duel with a knife. What would it be

757
00:47:28.550 --> 00:47:32.270
with all day? That one. All day. And I. I

758
00:47:32.270 --> 00:47:36.110
know because I paid for it heavily back in the days

759
00:47:36.590 --> 00:47:40.330
when I was just an upand coming jeet kundo practitioner. And

760
00:47:40.330 --> 00:47:43.970
we sparred. There was a lot of sparring, sparring with the nabaja,

761
00:47:43.970 --> 00:47:47.770
sparring. The buoy wins hands down. And I'll tell you why. Because

762
00:47:48.330 --> 00:47:51.130
Bill Bagwell said it to me very well. He said, look, I am.

763
00:47:52.010 --> 00:47:54.850
This was when he was coaching me over the phone. I don't know why he

764
00:47:54.850 --> 00:47:58.290
picked me, but he just said that I'm nervous. I'm always

765
00:47:58.290 --> 00:48:02.010
nervous about teaching this because it takes 30 minutes

766
00:48:02.250 --> 00:48:06.010
to teach anybody this, right? It's. That's. It's the whole

767
00:48:06.010 --> 00:48:09.630
thing. I can back, cut, snap, cut, thrust, reverso. Little bit of

768
00:48:09.630 --> 00:48:12.030
footwork, little bit of biomechanics, and that's it.

769
00:48:13.470 --> 00:48:17.110
So the ease of disseminating the knowledge,

770
00:48:17.110 --> 00:48:20.750
the knowledge transmission is easy. But the second one, this is something I

771
00:48:20.750 --> 00:48:24.430
experience. It doesn't matter where you're some sort of,

772
00:48:24.910 --> 00:48:28.590
you know, super advanced savat guy or super advanced

773
00:48:28.590 --> 00:48:31.790
fencer or super advanced jiu jitsu guy.

774
00:48:32.110 --> 00:48:34.830
It or you're just brand new to martial arts.

775
00:48:36.050 --> 00:48:39.650
You put something like this in someone's hands and you teach them that

776
00:48:39.650 --> 00:48:43.490
template, they're devastating. And I was on the receiving

777
00:48:43.490 --> 00:48:47.290
end of like, maybe a couple of those sparring sessions where my

778
00:48:47.290 --> 00:48:50.290
instructor Armando kind of whispered in it, do this instead.

779
00:48:51.010 --> 00:48:54.650
And it was a technique from Dwight McLemore's curriculum, the

780
00:48:54.650 --> 00:48:58.290
hanging guard. And for those who don't know, the hanging guard is

781
00:48:58.290 --> 00:49:02.110
when it's kind of like mountain man, right? When. Where the false edges this

782
00:49:02.110 --> 00:49:05.710
way, but instead you hold it this way, like way above the head

783
00:49:05.710 --> 00:49:08.950
like this. And I looked at him, and he was.

784
00:49:09.830 --> 00:49:12.710
I believe he was a US Army Rangers, and

785
00:49:13.350 --> 00:49:16.790
it's a really, really great guy. And

786
00:49:17.190 --> 00:49:20.870
Holzback. Mike Holzbach. That was his name. And he held it like this.

787
00:49:21.030 --> 00:49:24.790
And everyone knew the buoy was my thing. And I was just,

788
00:49:25.110 --> 00:49:28.910
what is this? Oh, my God. He nailed me with that over and over

789
00:49:28.910 --> 00:49:32.630
again. I was like. I was like, bro, like you. How long have you been

790
00:49:32.630 --> 00:49:36.230
here? A couple of months. But that's. That's the thing about the buoy

791
00:49:36.230 --> 00:49:40.070
is that if you have a certain template and you have

792
00:49:40.070 --> 00:49:43.630
a certain buoy, even if you're a beginner, you have

793
00:49:43.630 --> 00:49:47.470
access to it versus a Bali song, okay? A Bali song. That's

794
00:49:47.630 --> 00:49:51.350
not the easiest Access, right? Or a Guinun

795
00:49:51.350 --> 00:49:54.990
ting sword. Not the easiest access. You might use it like a frying pan,

796
00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:59.320
because that's all you know, Right? But a buoy knife, strangely enough. Hey,

797
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:03.120
here, here, here. Couple of back cuts. Here's a snap cut. And stay away

798
00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:06.920
from his knife. And you're good. It would be a. It would be a buoy

799
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.600
knife all day. Okay, before we get to the Osprey, tell us

800
00:50:10.600 --> 00:50:14.440
how this works. Like, what's the attack for? Oh, so here's what's

801
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.800
nuts, right? I was. I still remember it because I was like,

802
00:50:19.240 --> 00:50:22.930
I'm gonna. I'm gonna lean back here a little bit so you can see.

803
00:50:23.330 --> 00:50:26.970
So pretty standard, you know, you hold it in front,

804
00:50:26.970 --> 00:50:30.810
edge forward. Some people like to keep it low. But the idea

805
00:50:30.810 --> 00:50:34.610
behind the hanging guard is that you hold it way up here,

806
00:50:34.610 --> 00:50:38.250
right? And then the live hand is way out

807
00:50:38.250 --> 00:50:41.490
to the side here, this way. So you're. You're fighting a guy like this,

808
00:50:41.890 --> 00:50:45.250
and he's pointing the buoy knife right at you.

809
00:50:46.690 --> 00:50:50.210
This is interesting because this is a position also from

810
00:50:51.090 --> 00:50:54.810
French Lacan can de combat. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I

811
00:50:54.810 --> 00:50:58.570
won't get into it, but the. The term for this, the quasi tet. So you

812
00:50:58.570 --> 00:51:01.530
do something like this, and you bend your. You bend your back, and then you

813
00:51:01.530 --> 00:51:05.290
can reach maybe an extra two feet. But from over here,

814
00:51:05.290 --> 00:51:08.970
it looks like you can't reach. So he's primed for this

815
00:51:08.970 --> 00:51:11.970
kind of cande combat hanging guard position.

816
00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:16.400
And the idea behind it is that I invite. This is open.

817
00:51:16.720 --> 00:51:20.000
Yeah. Come at Breen, girl. I got you. You can even back at me to

818
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.840
my head. Anything that comes between this

819
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:27.520
hand and this hand, as he falls in,

820
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:30.400
all I have to do is drop.

821
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.720
And anything that comes this way, this drops. So it's coming in.

822
00:51:35.120 --> 00:51:37.840
But then anything that comes through, I swipe across,

823
00:51:39.180 --> 00:51:42.940
and it's. It's this type of gunting. Yeah.

824
00:51:43.420 --> 00:51:46.380
So the movement is fake. Fake. Come out here and then.

825
00:51:47.100 --> 00:51:50.700
And you just. You just take everything. And then if you happen

826
00:51:50.700 --> 00:51:53.980
to miss that, you go to a snap cut. Then you go right back to

827
00:51:53.980 --> 00:51:57.780
this handguard. I ate that all day. I ate that all day. All

828
00:51:57.780 --> 00:52:01.260
day from Michael's back. And I was just. You freaking guy, you.

829
00:52:02.620 --> 00:52:06.300
But then, of course, later on, he showed me, and then Armando showed me.

830
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:08.840
It's like, oh, no. It's. It's. It's this. This is how you set it up.

831
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:12.520
I was like, you guys. You did this without me? How dare you? But.

832
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:18.120
But it's part of the. It's Part of the learning process, especially when you. When

833
00:52:18.120 --> 00:52:21.000
you're not familiar with it at first and it looks goofy to you. Yeah. I

834
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.720
was like, what is. What is that? Right. But it's in Macklemore's book, like the

835
00:52:24.720 --> 00:52:27.640
Hanging Guy. You should review your notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

836
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:31.960
Got to check him out. Macklemore and not the musician.

837
00:52:33.210 --> 00:52:36.810
What's the Osprey? Bowie. Oh, boy. Christopher

838
00:52:36.810 --> 00:52:40.290
Linton. So you have. All right, so first and foremost, this is a big part

839
00:52:40.290 --> 00:52:43.850
of what my buoy studies are right now. Right. So you have the standard

840
00:52:43.850 --> 00:52:47.410
one, and this is your standard buoy

841
00:52:47.410 --> 00:52:50.850
model, which is in line with the Bagwell

842
00:52:50.850 --> 00:52:54.170
Keating template. Back cut, snap cuts. Right. Very

843
00:52:54.170 --> 00:52:57.610
European in terms of its mechanics

844
00:52:58.040 --> 00:53:01.840
and very much a lead shoulder. So the weapon is in the lead.

845
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:05.640
Right. Then when I had my conversations with Jeff Schaefer

846
00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:09.520
about the chopper buoy and how some of it lends itself to the

847
00:53:09.520 --> 00:53:13.320
Barong. So this is more of a buoy Barong.

848
00:53:13.799 --> 00:53:17.360
So, you know, it's not just buoy, snap cut, back cut,

849
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:20.480
snap cut. In fact, if I back cut, it turns all the way in because

850
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:24.120
of its balance. I back cut. You see how it comes all the way in.

851
00:53:24.510 --> 00:53:28.150
Yeah. Whereas most booty knives, if I back up here, it snap

852
00:53:28.150 --> 00:53:31.710
cuts forward. This one comes all the way in. So it allows me to

853
00:53:31.870 --> 00:53:35.070
do these types of fulcrums. Right. It allows me to

854
00:53:35.470 --> 00:53:38.350
do these kinds of movements. That's from the Barong.

855
00:53:39.230 --> 00:53:42.990
So then my good buddy Ryan Burkhart

856
00:53:42.990 --> 00:53:46.710
at rmj, he. He loves to send me items, and every now and then,

857
00:53:46.710 --> 00:53:49.830
just. I just. I just kind of want you to, you know, check this out,

858
00:53:49.830 --> 00:53:53.010
let me know what you think. I kind of want to, you know, see how

859
00:53:53.010 --> 00:53:56.250
your mind works. So Christopher Linton at Osprey.

860
00:53:56.730 --> 00:54:00.250
So you had the classic buoy, The Buoy Barong. Well,

861
00:54:01.370 --> 00:54:04.770
buoy Barong, Kukri. Ooh. This is

862
00:54:04.770 --> 00:54:08.490
intentional. There's. And I'm doing an episode on this. He.

863
00:54:08.810 --> 00:54:12.530
I sent him my Q and A, and he answered it. There's

864
00:54:12.530 --> 00:54:16.330
a lot of intentionality. And just as a little

865
00:54:16.330 --> 00:54:19.760
side note, I tend to feature makers

866
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:23.760
on my channel who have hyper intentionality,

867
00:54:24.080 --> 00:54:27.600
basically, in each aspect of the knife. It's not just something

868
00:54:28.080 --> 00:54:31.320
that's sharp and pointy and, you know, if you throw it at a car, the

869
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:35.040
car explodes. You know, something like that. It's. It's. There's something

870
00:54:35.120 --> 00:54:38.520
around the understanding of the art. A good

871
00:54:38.520 --> 00:54:42.320
example of this is a Damon Lusky. That guy is a jiu

872
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.990
jitsu black belt, but also studied Di Cuerdas under Mike

873
00:54:45.990 --> 00:54:49.270
Janice Marshall blade concept. Chris

874
00:54:49.270 --> 00:54:53.070
Linton, you know, walked me through basically every inch of

875
00:54:53.070 --> 00:54:56.830
this in the Q and A I sent him. So now you're not just

876
00:54:56.830 --> 00:55:00.270
looking at a buoy back cut with a

877
00:55:00.270 --> 00:55:03.710
barong. Now you have kukri. And now that's,

878
00:55:03.710 --> 00:55:07.350
that's very different. You're looking at different

879
00:55:07.350 --> 00:55:11.070
mechanics, different stances that you will not see. If

880
00:55:11.070 --> 00:55:14.870
I try to do it with a dedicated Bagwell

881
00:55:14.870 --> 00:55:18.710
Keating buoy, it won't apply because it's the

882
00:55:18.710 --> 00:55:22.190
balance points of difference. The mass is different, there is a recurve.

883
00:55:23.390 --> 00:55:26.110
So now this is something that I'm studying, but

884
00:55:27.270 --> 00:55:30.830
makes me ask this question, which is when you're talking

885
00:55:30.830 --> 00:55:34.510
about large knives or medium swords or short swords,

886
00:55:35.230 --> 00:55:39.080
what templates are, are, are available to us

887
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:43.320
that we can integrate? So we're not just treating any

888
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.880
knife as a knife or any sword as a sword, so that when we pick

889
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:49.600
something up, we know, oh, I know what to do with this, I know what

890
00:55:49.600 --> 00:55:53.200
template to use with this, and I know what mechanics to do with this. And

891
00:55:53.200 --> 00:55:56.840
that's what I love about this. It challenges me to look at

892
00:55:56.840 --> 00:55:59.400
how I can integrate this into the templates. I know,

893
00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:04.850
man, that just looks utterly wicked with that recurve. Look

894
00:56:04.850 --> 00:56:08.690
at that. Fuller. You know, it just makes it so crazy

895
00:56:08.690 --> 00:56:12.450
light. Right? There's a beautiful aesthetic to it. This

896
00:56:12.450 --> 00:56:16.090
is. No, it's not sharpened, I thought it would be, but this

897
00:56:16.090 --> 00:56:19.530
beautiful fuller, which makes it lighter.

898
00:56:19.850 --> 00:56:23.690
There's. You see that hooking again here, right? That's a beautiful handle there.

899
00:56:23.770 --> 00:56:26.770
And you see how it has a kind of, I call it the double butt,

900
00:56:26.770 --> 00:56:30.010
where there's a butt in the back, a butt in the front. So you can,

901
00:56:30.450 --> 00:56:34.210
you can change so that the hand can go here and

902
00:56:34.210 --> 00:56:37.850
the, or the pinky can go here. So you have all of these

903
00:56:37.850 --> 00:56:41.690
dynamics in play. It's something that I'm

904
00:56:41.690 --> 00:56:45.290
still very much exploring. And by the way, it came in this. You

905
00:56:45.290 --> 00:56:48.450
ready for this? Look at the sheath. I know

906
00:56:49.010 --> 00:56:52.650
you know, this, this isn't just any old chief.

907
00:56:52.650 --> 00:56:56.380
And then. And look how beautifully it just matches up.

908
00:56:56.380 --> 00:56:59.420
It's a, it's a true, true worker. Look how,

909
00:57:00.060 --> 00:57:03.100
how discreet that is, right? How beautiful.

910
00:57:03.740 --> 00:57:07.420
And I'm, I'm of the mind that if you receive something

911
00:57:08.140 --> 00:57:11.939
this beautiful, your, your training and the thought that

912
00:57:11.939 --> 00:57:15.740
you put into it has to match the training and thought that they

913
00:57:15.740 --> 00:57:19.580
put into the making of it. The best swords makers, at least

914
00:57:19.580 --> 00:57:22.820
the ones from what I understand, the ones from Japan, when they were making it,

915
00:57:22.820 --> 00:57:26.060
they were thinking about the samurai, like the one they were building it for.

916
00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:30.860
And. And the samurai. The samurai's job is to

917
00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:35.100
live up to that level of craftsmanship so that

918
00:57:35.100 --> 00:57:38.460
they earn the right to hold it. And I treat

919
00:57:39.020 --> 00:57:41.660
all of these wonderful nights that way and swords that way.

920
00:57:42.780 --> 00:57:45.780
So what do you have coming up? I know you're working on an episode for

921
00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:49.600
that, but what. What are the knives that you're hoping. I don't know.

922
00:57:49.600 --> 00:57:52.760
That you're hoping to explore in the next. In the Often.

923
00:57:53.240 --> 00:57:57.000
You know what? One thing that I've really been looking at, and I had

924
00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:00.600
a good conversation with Ed Calderon about this, is that what are you going to

925
00:58:00.600 --> 00:58:04.320
do if he had something like this? Yeah, right. These. These smaller

926
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:08.040
ones. The one I'm kind of obsessed with. And I

927
00:58:08.040 --> 00:58:10.280
did an episode, the one with.

928
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.180
The one with the Safemaker, but it featured

929
00:58:16.180 --> 00:58:19.820
Bruce Lee walking around with this spike that was his push dagger.

930
00:58:20.220 --> 00:58:23.940
Zach Wingard. Oh, yeah. Without any. I don't think he

931
00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:27.780
had any realization that Bruce Lee carried this, but ended

932
00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:31.260
up making something. This is the

933
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:35.060
Wingard Dick pic. I'm not crazy about the name. I've told

934
00:58:35.060 --> 00:58:38.820
him, hey, I'm not crazy about the name. Right, Right. Look at that. See?

935
00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:42.460
Yeah. I love this thing. This thing is marvelous because

936
00:58:42.460 --> 00:58:46.060
it's so utilitarian. Right. I. I saw Scott

937
00:58:46.060 --> 00:58:49.900
Baldwin do a short recently, you know, where he took in. I was like.

938
00:58:49.900 --> 00:58:53.420
He was breaking up some ice with it. I was like, look at that. But

939
00:58:53.420 --> 00:58:57.220
I'm going to give you a little sneak preview. So what if you hold

940
00:58:57.220 --> 00:59:00.940
it like this? This one is Captain Obvious. Right. But if you take a look

941
00:59:00.940 --> 00:59:04.500
at how Bruce Lee would have used the Bill G with the ijab.

942
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:07.940
Right? Yeah. So now you. This is his eyab.

943
00:59:08.180 --> 00:59:11.710
But. But then there's something else to think about, which is thin.

944
00:59:11.950 --> 00:59:15.350
That's my favorite way to hold this. Yeah. This is like. Yeah. Why is this

945
00:59:15.350 --> 00:59:19.070
one your favorite? Because I like the. The

946
00:59:19.070 --> 00:59:22.590
punya aspect. Right? Yeah, exactly. The. The reverse

947
00:59:22.590 --> 00:59:26.430
grip style here. But then you have this. This front portion

948
00:59:26.430 --> 00:59:30.270
is very sharp and punch with it, but also reverse

949
00:59:30.750 --> 00:59:33.870
back fist with it. Yeah. And. And you know how common

950
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:38.160
thumbing is in boxing, right? Yeah. This. It's very common.

951
00:59:38.160 --> 00:59:42.000
So you just do one of these jabs. This. So you

952
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:45.800
have an extended thumb, basically, but here

953
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:48.280
you have an extended finger.

954
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:53.240
Yeah, it is, right. It's. It's. These things are just utterly wicked.

955
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:57.160
Yeah. There's Tomas. Tomas Ellas and

956
00:59:57.160 --> 01:00:00.040
I. Tactical Tavern. We were joking about this at one point,

957
01:00:00.820 --> 01:00:03.700
and I said, you know, Bruce Lee carried this, right?

958
01:00:04.420 --> 01:00:07.820
No, I didn't know you were talking about it. And then I did my Bruce

959
01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:11.660
Lee impersonation. I said, see, I take this finger and I put

960
01:00:11.660 --> 01:00:12.580
it in your eye.

961
01:00:16.740 --> 01:00:20.300
Every now and then we'll text each other, he'll go, I put this finger in

962
01:00:20.300 --> 01:00:23.860
your eye. Well, that's the best

963
01:00:23.860 --> 01:00:26.080
impression I think I've ever heard of Bruce Lee.

964
01:00:28.630 --> 01:00:32.230
Tomas. I mean, Rolando. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

965
01:00:33.270 --> 01:00:36.950
As we wrap, I also recommend the Back Ripper. I love

966
01:00:36.950 --> 01:00:40.470
that. Oh. Oh, my God, I love that one. I

967
01:00:40.470 --> 01:00:44.270
love that one. And. And he carries it around in his pants all the time.

968
01:00:44.270 --> 01:00:47.910
I'm not quite there, but it's always handy

969
01:00:47.910 --> 01:00:51.590
at my desk just in case anyone comes in who needs to be

970
01:00:51.590 --> 01:00:55.230
vanquished. I love that. I did an episode, I forgot it

971
01:00:55.230 --> 01:00:59.030
wasn't the back scratcher, it was a different one. But that curve, that back spike.

972
01:00:59.270 --> 01:01:02.990
Yeah, it's what it does is that when you do this, this cut

973
01:01:02.990 --> 01:01:06.790
over here, right, it's like a reverse pion. But

974
01:01:06.790 --> 01:01:10.590
what happens is that if you do this right, the edge will miss. But

975
01:01:10.590 --> 01:01:14.350
then if you bring your wrist up a little bit, you bring it

976
01:01:14.350 --> 01:01:18.070
up a little bit, this back hook, it curves down, it catches the guy.

977
01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:23.400
It's wild and wild. His. His tools are really

978
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:26.880
cool, but that one, I like to use

979
01:01:27.120 --> 01:01:30.160
the. The biomechanics from

980
01:01:30.640 --> 01:01:34.080
Zulu stick fighting. I think his stuff

981
01:01:35.040 --> 01:01:38.880
lends itself well to the zulistic fighting methodology. And that one, specifically,

982
01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:42.800
Zulu. What don't you. Okay, we're gonna have to get into that another time. Another

983
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:46.490
time. Hey, man, thank you so much, Rolando. I

984
01:01:46.490 --> 01:01:50.330
appreciate you coming back on. Oh, my pleasure. You'll be back. You'll

985
01:01:50.330 --> 01:01:54.010
be back. This is an ever everlasting conversation, I think.

986
01:01:54.250 --> 01:01:57.730
Thank you. Yeah, same. I. I think so. Because you're a martial

987
01:01:57.730 --> 01:02:01.010
artist, you can. You can tell that. Take a look at the, you know, like

988
01:02:01.010 --> 01:02:04.850
your. Your back wall, all your swords there, you know, and you know

989
01:02:04.850 --> 01:02:08.690
how martial artists are. You. You and I could just keep talking about this. This

990
01:02:08.690 --> 01:02:12.530
is just what we love, and I. It is indeed. Yeah. And I always

991
01:02:12.530 --> 01:02:15.690
thank you. I'm always grateful to you for bringing me on. I always enjoy it.

992
01:02:15.930 --> 01:02:19.690
It's my pleasure. And for those of you who are patrons, we're going to

993
01:02:19.690 --> 01:02:23.410
continue this conversation another 10 minutes, so definitely stick

994
01:02:23.410 --> 01:02:25.210
around, Rolando. Thanks again, sir.

995
01:02:25.290 --> 01:02:29.370
Do

996
01:02:29.370 --> 01:02:33.090
you use terms like handle the blade ratio, walk and talk, hair

997
01:02:33.090 --> 01:02:36.490
pop and sharp, or tank like. Then you are a dork

998
01:02:36.810 --> 01:02:38.410
and a knife junkie.

999
01:02:40.870 --> 01:02:44.710
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen, Rolando Escutada. Love his work.

1000
01:02:44.870 --> 01:02:48.510
Check him out on YouTube, Instagram and his his really

1001
01:02:48.510 --> 01:02:51.190
bottomless insights into all these things that we love.

1002
01:02:52.390 --> 01:02:56.190
Yeah, check it out. His Bowie collection is insane and he's

1003
01:02:56.190 --> 01:02:59.830
got some great collection videos you have to check out.

1004
01:02:59.910 --> 01:03:03.630
All right. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until

1005
01:03:03.630 --> 01:03:07.420
next time, don't take Dull for an answer. Thanks for listening to the

1006
01:03:07.420 --> 01:03:10.820
Knife Junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and

1007
01:03:10.820 --> 01:03:14.620
review@reviewthepodcast.com for show notes for today's

1008
01:03:14.620 --> 01:03:18.260
episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, Visit our

1009
01:03:18.260 --> 01:03:21.820
website, thenifejunkie.com you can also watch our latest

1010
01:03:21.820 --> 01:03:25.380
videos on YouTube@thenif junkie.com YouTube.