WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:07.120 Welcome to the Knife Junkie Podcast. Your weekly dose of knife 2 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.840 news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your 3 00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:12.960 host, Bob The Knife Junkie DeMarco. 4 00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:20.160 Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this 5 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:24.000 edition of the show, I'm speaking with Jacob Asuit of Very Good 6 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:27.720 Knife Company. I had my first exposure to Jacob's knives on 7 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:31.140 a few of my favorite YouTube knife channels, choir Boys, Cutlery 8 00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:34.740 Outdoors, Peterbilt, Knife Guy, and the Last Huntsman, all of 9 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:38.100 whom truly put these very good knives through their paces. 10 00:00:38.660 --> 00:00:42.460 Much more so than I probably ever will. The knives came through 11 00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:46.300 their tests with flying colors, which to me was a thrill considering I 12 00:00:46.300 --> 00:00:49.940 had already fallen in love with how these knives look and knew it was only 13 00:00:49.940 --> 00:00:53.700 a matter of time before I got my hands on one. Well, at Blade 14 00:00:53.700 --> 00:00:57.300 show this year I got that opportunity and bought a beautiful first 15 00:00:57.300 --> 00:01:00.780 strike directly from Jacob and got a chance to meet him in person. 16 00:01:01.820 --> 00:01:05.660 We'll talk with Jacob and find out how his knives became so very 17 00:01:05.660 --> 00:01:09.100 good. 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Subscription for hand picked outdoor 27 00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:45.980 survival, EDC and other cool gear from our expert team 28 00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:49.180 of outdoor professionals. The knife junkie.com 29 00:01:49.980 --> 00:01:53.500 battlebox Jacob welcome to the Knife Junkie Podcast. 30 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:57.880 Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. And so has 31 00:01:57.960 --> 00:02:01.360 been owning the first strike. I'll get this out of the way because I just 32 00:02:01.360 --> 00:02:04.840 want to show it off, but so has been owning this first 33 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:08.360 strike. This. This beautiful nice clip point blade. 34 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:12.240 And it's really cool that I had a chance to buy it from you and 35 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.960 your wife at Blade show this year. So I'm really 36 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:19.730 happy to have it. Thank you Franky. I am. I've got a 37 00:02:19.730 --> 00:02:23.410 first strike sitting right next to me as well. I like quite a lot. 38 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:27.090 This one is not quite as pretty as yours. Still it's been beat up and 39 00:02:27.570 --> 00:02:31.250 got some scratches but I like my first strike. 40 00:02:31.650 --> 00:02:34.970 Yeah, Blade show was a good time. It was great to meet You? Yeah. Oh, 41 00:02:34.970 --> 00:02:38.810 so that wasn't your first blade show, was it? That was my first 42 00:02:38.810 --> 00:02:42.530 time on the table. No way. Oh, yeah. I've been going to blade 43 00:02:42.530 --> 00:02:46.330 shows since I was a little kid. My dad used to table take me 44 00:02:46.330 --> 00:02:49.890 just about every year. And then when we became knife 45 00:02:49.890 --> 00:02:53.730 makers in 2009, we started going every 46 00:02:53.730 --> 00:02:56.850 year. And I've only missed a few years in between 47 00:02:57.490 --> 00:03:01.210 2009 and now. And so I've seen a 48 00:03:01.210 --> 00:03:05.010 lot of blade show. Oh, man. Well, okay, so I 49 00:03:05.010 --> 00:03:08.810 want to, I want to dig into that, but first, you know, you 50 00:03:08.810 --> 00:03:12.370 just mentioned you and your dad making knives. Tell us about that. 51 00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:17.560 So, so I, I, I started making knives 52 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:21.200 with my dad in 2009. He was a stonemason for about 35 53 00:03:21.200 --> 00:03:24.600 years, and when that all went downhill, 54 00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:28.599 2008 era, he was 55 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.560 a massive case collector and 56 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:35.640 he started selling off his case collection as 57 00:03:36.200 --> 00:03:38.120 we needed some money and 58 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:44.910 being at the gun show. We went to gun shows every weekend for a year 59 00:03:45.390 --> 00:03:49.230 doing, selling case knives. And we, we started making some 60 00:03:49.230 --> 00:03:53.070 knives. Like. Kind of like this one. 61 00:03:53.390 --> 00:03:56.750 Cool. And I mean, it's, it's 62 00:03:56.990 --> 00:04:00.430 a 440C Pakistan Blade with a deer 63 00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:03.630 antler handle and piece of Trone on the end. 64 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:08.040 Um, but, you know, everybody starts somewhere. And this is where we started 65 00:04:08.040 --> 00:04:11.760 is doing stuff like this. And, and it just 66 00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:15.480 morphed into making our own blades. And I mean, that's half 67 00:04:15.480 --> 00:04:19.120 of it right there. So we were at a gun show 68 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:20.680 one weekend and somebody said, 69 00:04:22.840 --> 00:04:26.600 who does your blades? Or something along those lines? And, and 70 00:04:26.760 --> 00:04:30.560 our answer was we bought them. And so they said, oh, 71 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.320 you're, you're not a knife maker. You're a knife assembler. And the attitude just 72 00:04:34.320 --> 00:04:37.990 kind of changed. So I made knives with my 73 00:04:37.990 --> 00:04:41.750 dad under two Jake's knives from 2010 74 00:04:41.750 --> 00:04:45.390 full time, 2010 up until 2022. 75 00:04:45.790 --> 00:04:49.590 And 2022, I split off on 76 00:04:49.590 --> 00:04:53.270 my own. And the beginning of 2023 is when I started Very Good Knife 77 00:04:53.270 --> 00:04:56.590 Company. And it's been a, it's been a 78 00:04:56.590 --> 00:05:00.390 Ride 2 Jake's. It's like the, the 79 00:05:00.390 --> 00:05:04.180 sequel to Chinatown. One of my favorite movies of all time. Yep. To Jake. 80 00:05:04.180 --> 00:05:07.660 So I take it your dad was, is Jacob. So 81 00:05:07.740 --> 00:05:11.380 that's a kind of a, that's kind of a sobering comment. You're not a knife 82 00:05:11.380 --> 00:05:15.060 maker, you're a knife assembler. Did that resonate with you or did 83 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:18.380 that. Oh, yeah. Bug you? Yeah, no, it definitely, 84 00:05:20.780 --> 00:05:24.620 you just didn't want to be that anymore once you had reached 85 00:05:24.620 --> 00:05:28.380 this level. I mean, we were making. See if I Could have one 86 00:05:28.380 --> 00:05:31.500 here. I've got so many knobs and I haven't organized, but 87 00:05:32.100 --> 00:05:35.060 even still, I have so many boxes and, but 88 00:05:36.660 --> 00:05:40.460 I don't know. There's nothing wrong with this, but we didn't 89 00:05:40.460 --> 00:05:44.260 make the blade. And when you can't say that you've done every part, then 90 00:05:44.740 --> 00:05:48.460 I mean, does it matter that you did any part? And that was kind of 91 00:05:48.460 --> 00:05:52.180 our mentality with it. And of course, 92 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:55.620 in the early stages the blades were not great and, 93 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:59.660 and that's to be expected from somebody new. But, you 94 00:05:59.660 --> 00:06:03.300 know, we, we learned our way throughout the journey. 95 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:06.980 We at, at the prime of two Jake's 96 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:10.340 knives, we were making Damascus. This is a Harley chain 97 00:06:10.340 --> 00:06:13.540 Damascus over, over a piece of 1095. 98 00:06:14.020 --> 00:06:17.180 This has got mammoth tooth and 99 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:20.980 rosewood and, and then 100 00:06:22.660 --> 00:06:26.440 here's one with a, a hippo tooth. 101 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.800 And this is to Jake's Damascus. We made our own 102 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.120 Damascus, but 103 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.880 it morphed into where I'm at now, 104 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.720 having been on the, the side of really intricate custom 105 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.440 work for the majority of my career. Pretty much 106 00:06:47.440 --> 00:06:51.290 all of it was, was high and custom work. Very custom, 107 00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:55.090 as custom as you could get and you know, 108 00:06:55.090 --> 00:06:58.690 like, like mammoth tusk and mammoth tooth. And this is, this was my 109 00:06:58.690 --> 00:07:02.370 first piece of Damascus. It's etched really deep, but it, 110 00:07:02.610 --> 00:07:06.330 it's no longer dark because it rusted. And 111 00:07:06.330 --> 00:07:09.490 I cleaned it all up and it got all shiny on me. But anyhow, 112 00:07:10.930 --> 00:07:14.690 I, I, I got to experience the best of that side 113 00:07:14.690 --> 00:07:18.510 of things and, and, and throughout the way. I started 114 00:07:18.590 --> 00:07:21.710 my own brand in 2015 115 00:07:22.190 --> 00:07:25.950 called Bloodline Knives. And 116 00:07:27.870 --> 00:07:31.390 I didn't really know quite what I was doing 117 00:07:31.390 --> 00:07:35.030 enough to run with it. And that, 118 00:07:35.030 --> 00:07:38.550 the, that Bloodline knife. Can you hold that up real quick so we can take 119 00:07:38.550 --> 00:07:42.230 a look at it? That looks like a very different aesthetic. This looks kind of 120 00:07:42.230 --> 00:07:45.560 a, in your sort of se. Or tops kind of. 121 00:07:45.880 --> 00:07:49.560 Yeah, yeah. During that eras, I mean 122 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:53.520 that, that was, that was se top. Well, 123 00:07:53.520 --> 00:07:57.160 I mean that was the beginning probably at the 124 00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:00.680 right at the rise of the tops era. And 125 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:06.680 that's where I was mentally, you know, 126 00:08:06.760 --> 00:08:10.430 gotcha. I feel like as a make or where you are 127 00:08:10.830 --> 00:08:13.230 with how you like things and what you prefer 128 00:08:14.590 --> 00:08:17.710 definitely has a lot of influence on what you're doing for sure. 129 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:21.950 Like during that, that final, I also 130 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:25.230 tried to come out with my own 131 00:08:27.070 --> 00:08:30.590 Izula, if you will. It's, it's not an azula in any way, but, 132 00:08:30.990 --> 00:08:34.670 you know, it's the same, it's the same class of 133 00:08:34.670 --> 00:08:38.289 knife, a skeletonized handle. But this one was called the 134 00:08:38.289 --> 00:08:41.289 Cub it's powder coated as well. And 135 00:08:42.409 --> 00:08:45.529 you know, I did bloodline up until probably 136 00:08:45.529 --> 00:08:48.249 2018, 2019, 137 00:08:49.609 --> 00:08:53.129 and it just kind of fizzled. I never kept up with it because I was 138 00:08:53.129 --> 00:08:55.209 still doing two Jake stuff, you know, and, 139 00:08:56.649 --> 00:09:00.089 and the tensions with my dad and I over that 140 00:09:00.249 --> 00:09:03.369 just kind, I just kind of left that. And I wanted to do two Jake 141 00:09:03.369 --> 00:09:06.730 stuff. It was making more money and, and it seemed to be the way to 142 00:09:06.730 --> 00:09:10.050 go, so I went that way. And then 143 00:09:10.450 --> 00:09:14.050 in 2022 when I split, I just 144 00:09:14.050 --> 00:09:17.130 decided that I didn't want to do custom work at all. I mean, not that 145 00:09:17.130 --> 00:09:20.890 I didn't enjoy it, because I do. I just, I would rather 146 00:09:20.890 --> 00:09:24.050 make a knife that somebody uses, you know? Yeah. 147 00:09:24.530 --> 00:09:28.370 What I ended up seeing was you had all these people that 148 00:09:28.530 --> 00:09:32.210 loved everything, whether they used it, whether they bought it, whether 149 00:09:32.210 --> 00:09:35.610 they passed it up, sit there and talked with you for two hours at a 150 00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:39.210 show. It didn't matter. People 151 00:09:39.210 --> 00:09:42.850 didn't take, you know, a really fancy 152 00:09:42.850 --> 00:09:46.570 knife like this and go use it. And unless they're 153 00:09:46.570 --> 00:09:49.810 using it, they're just not, they're not 154 00:09:51.170 --> 00:09:54.330 as in love with it, I guess you could say, unless you're a collector and 155 00:09:54.330 --> 00:09:57.850 you're looking at them all the time, but then, you know, you're using it for 156 00:09:57.850 --> 00:10:01.300 a little different purpose. But yeah, I 157 00:10:01.380 --> 00:10:04.980 want, I've always wanted to shift towards more 158 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:08.660 utilitarian knives, and that's where I am now. 159 00:10:08.900 --> 00:10:12.420 I gotta say, that's like a major frustration that I hear 160 00:10:12.420 --> 00:10:16.219 from, from many knife makers. It's maybe frustration is the 161 00:10:16.219 --> 00:10:19.980 wrong word, but, but it's a, it's kind of a dilemma. It's like 162 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.700 you want people to buy your knives and you're thrilled. Yeah. Happy that they, 163 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:27.880 when they buy them because they love them and they're, and, and 164 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.760 you know, what's the word? I'm flattered if they want to keep 165 00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:35.320 it in there, keep it pristine and keep it in their case. 166 00:10:35.400 --> 00:10:39.160 But at the same time, you're putting a lot of work into that knife as 167 00:10:39.160 --> 00:10:42.760 a tool and you're also spending a lot of time perfecting it 168 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.880 for, for its use. And then to know that it's not getting used, that's got 169 00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:49.240 to be a little frustrating. It is. 170 00:10:50.920 --> 00:10:53.650 When you sell knives for 1500 to 171 00:10:53.650 --> 00:10:57.490 $5000. I mean, we've sold knives for, for 172 00:10:57.490 --> 00:11:01.130 high five figures too, with pal site meteorite, big giant 173 00:11:01.130 --> 00:11:04.530 cave bear jaw handle. I mean those, 174 00:11:04.690 --> 00:11:08.330 those are, I mean, if you ask me, the people that 175 00:11:08.330 --> 00:11:11.650 buy them have more dollars than cents, but I'm not going to tell them Though 176 00:11:11.650 --> 00:11:15.450 if they're throwing those dollars my way, you know, so, I mean, when you're getting 177 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:19.220 paid for it, there's, I mean, it's just not 178 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:23.060 the way that I want it to go. And, and I would rather 179 00:11:23.060 --> 00:11:26.860 sell five knives for the price of one high 180 00:11:26.860 --> 00:11:30.180 end custom that five people are going to use every single day, 181 00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:34.459 you know, rather than have that one person that has it in their safe and 182 00:11:34.459 --> 00:11:37.700 nobody ever sees it, nobody ever touches it or. 183 00:11:38.180 --> 00:11:41.380 I don't know, it's just the way I feel about it. Yeah. 184 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:45.540 So in reading your bio on, on your website, there was 185 00:11:45.540 --> 00:11:48.380 something that, that really jumped out to me in that there was a period of 186 00:11:48.380 --> 00:11:52.160 time, not exactly sure where it falls in the timeline of what you just 187 00:11:52.160 --> 00:11:55.000 told us, but there is a period of time where you were working for a 188 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:58.640 big knife outfit distributor. I'm not sure 189 00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:01.520 what it was. Premium knife. Premium knife supply. 190 00:12:02.160 --> 00:12:05.760 Yeah. Tell me about what you were doing with all of that 191 00:12:05.760 --> 00:12:09.280 grinding. Tell me what that looked like. So premium knife 192 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:12.760 supply is actually. Well, I'm not sure because I haven't talked to them a very 193 00:12:12.760 --> 00:12:16.320 long time, but premium knife supply was located in Hayesville, North 194 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:19.390 Carolina. To my knowledge, they are still located in 195 00:12:19.470 --> 00:12:22.430 Hayesville, North Carolina, which is an hour north of here. 196 00:12:23.790 --> 00:12:27.550 So really close. And starting out, 197 00:12:27.950 --> 00:12:31.630 that was our go to knife supply. And my dad 198 00:12:31.630 --> 00:12:34.990 became really close friends with the guy that owned it, Doug 199 00:12:34.990 --> 00:12:38.670 Metzger. And when Doug owned it, things 200 00:12:38.670 --> 00:12:41.790 were a lot different than they are now. But 201 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.640 everything was pretty much like China, Taiwan 202 00:12:46.640 --> 00:12:50.320 made blanks and, and they were, they were these 203 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.160 kind of blanks, you know, and they sold kits and, and 204 00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:56.360 all kinds of materials. But it was all, 205 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.920 it was all pretty much. I mean most knife supply places are 206 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.440 driven towards the hobbyist or beginner maker. 207 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.450 And Doug came to the shop 208 00:13:10.450 --> 00:13:14.170 one day, he actually lived about 20 minutes closer. 209 00:13:14.170 --> 00:13:17.770 He lived in Georgia in a place called Hiwassee, which is the 210 00:13:17.770 --> 00:13:21.170 neighbor town to Hayesville. Both of them are kind of on the line of North 211 00:13:21.170 --> 00:13:24.570 Carolina, Georgia and, and Doug lived in 212 00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:28.410 hiawassee which is 20 minutes closer. So he would come to Cleveland 213 00:13:28.410 --> 00:13:32.050 every now and then and he came by the shop and 214 00:13:32.050 --> 00:13:35.800 I was grinding a blade and he just kind of peeled peeking. Doug, the 215 00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:39.360 big dude, real big dude. And he just kind of peeked over my shoulder while 216 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.840 I was at the grinder and, and startled me. He's like, 217 00:13:43.400 --> 00:13:47.080 you grinded pretty nice there. And, and I finished it out before 218 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.800 him and, and when I got finished, he had sit there, talk to 219 00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:54.240 my dad for probably 20 minutes and, and he come Back over and he's like, 220 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.920 you want a job? I'll, I'll pay for, 221 00:13:57.920 --> 00:14:00.760 I'll bring you the belts, I'll bring you the drill bits 222 00:14:01.550 --> 00:14:05.230 and, and I'll pay you. I, I think it was like five or six 223 00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:08.430 bucks a blade to bring me. So he, he paid me 224 00:14:09.390 --> 00:14:12.990 about five or six bucks a blade to drill them. 225 00:14:14.350 --> 00:14:16.270 Drill pin holes in the handle, 226 00:14:18.510 --> 00:14:21.870 which for most of them was two or three holes, and then 227 00:14:22.830 --> 00:14:26.110 grind them. Most 90% of them were hollow grind 228 00:14:26.430 --> 00:14:29.670 and 90% of them were tool steel as 229 00:14:29.670 --> 00:14:33.470 well.01 tool steel. My job was to drill them, grind 230 00:14:33.470 --> 00:14:36.990 them and heat treat them. And I would leave them in 231 00:14:36.990 --> 00:14:40.390 the, you know, the quenching oil, leave them nice and dirty 232 00:14:41.030 --> 00:14:43.750 with all that junk burnt onto it from tempering. 233 00:14:44.630 --> 00:14:48.310 And I just give them to him like that. And it was all done 234 00:14:48.310 --> 00:14:52.150 in the shop. Being that he was local, Doug 235 00:14:52.150 --> 00:14:55.880 would bring the boxes of blades that started out, he would, he brought 236 00:14:55.880 --> 00:14:59.400 me like 200 blades, which for, you know, a nice 237 00:14:59.400 --> 00:15:03.240 supply company that's selling blanks is nothing. I mean, I would go to the 238 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.800 store and watch the packing people that work there pack up 239 00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:10.240 20 or 30 blades in the half hour that I was standing there, you know, 240 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.440 so two or 300 blades, them is nothing. 241 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:18.160 But the first time he brought me blades, probably about 200 blades, 242 00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:20.310 and it took me 243 00:15:22.150 --> 00:15:25.990 probably two and a half weeks to do all those. 244 00:15:26.870 --> 00:15:30.230 And I spent a lot of time on them. And 245 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:34.230 they were good, they were satisfactory. 246 00:15:34.790 --> 00:15:38.230 He was trying to go like, bring everything American 247 00:15:38.470 --> 00:15:42.070 made. So I wasn't the only maker 248 00:15:42.390 --> 00:15:46.070 that he had subcontracted to do this as well. 249 00:15:46.450 --> 00:15:50.170 I was one of three at the time. And 250 00:15:50.170 --> 00:15:52.850 I don't remember the other two because I never met them, they were up in 251 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:56.490 Hayesville. But I got that gig 252 00:15:56.490 --> 00:15:59.410 solely off of my skills that I had at the time 253 00:16:00.290 --> 00:16:03.810 and convenience sake, I would say had a lot to do with it for sure. 254 00:16:04.530 --> 00:16:08.290 But as the months went on, 255 00:16:08.770 --> 00:16:12.580 we, I mean, after that first order, he brought me little more 256 00:16:12.580 --> 00:16:16.220 than 400 blades. And I was like, Doug, I don't know if I could 257 00:16:16.380 --> 00:16:19.620 handle all this. He's like, just tell me when you're done or do half of 258 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:22.900 them and I'll come and get them. Or, you know, we'll figure it out. It's 259 00:16:22.900 --> 00:16:26.740 not a big deal. But here's your blades, here's your belt. He 260 00:16:26.740 --> 00:16:30.460 was bringing me belts. He ended up 261 00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:33.500 introducing us to a, a belt 262 00:16:34.060 --> 00:16:37.860 broker, a Pelt distributor. So we had an 263 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:41.510 abrasives connection pretty early on with. I don't have 264 00:16:41.510 --> 00:16:45.230 any more. But we did at the time, his name was Al, but Al 265 00:16:45.230 --> 00:16:48.470 would bring Doug's belts and he would bring our belts and I would 266 00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:52.510 do work for both of us. But it ended up turning into working 267 00:16:52.510 --> 00:16:55.910 for Doug and not doing anything for two Jakes. And 268 00:16:57.350 --> 00:17:01.110 the thing is though, if you count up all the blades, I made a ton 269 00:17:01.110 --> 00:17:04.630 of money, but the amount of blades that I did 270 00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:09.339 was worth 50 times the amount of money that I made in experience. 271 00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:12.379 Yeah. Because I was given access to 272 00:17:13.499 --> 00:17:15.579 an unlimited amount of 273 00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:20.539 grinding experience. I mean, there was no worrying about 274 00:17:20.778 --> 00:17:24.379 cutting them out. There was no worried about doing the whole. The 275 00:17:24.379 --> 00:17:27.979 profiling or anything. It was just that he brought me 276 00:17:27.979 --> 00:17:31.780 laser cut blanks that were right raw. I had to 277 00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:34.460 clean them up and grind them, and that was all that mattered. And 278 00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:38.860 by the end of it, he was bringing me batches of around 279 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:41.900 600. I have a picture. The picture that's on the website is like 280 00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:45.540 660 blades. And it. And it 281 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:49.300 only took me two and a half weeks. So the first. So the 282 00:17:49.300 --> 00:17:52.540 first time he brought me blades was about 200 blades. Took me about two and 283 00:17:52.540 --> 00:17:56.020 a half weeks. And the last round of 284 00:17:56.020 --> 00:17:59.620 blades he brought me was like 660 blaze was that picture on the 285 00:17:59.620 --> 00:18:01.340 orange table on the website. And 286 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:06.940 by the end of that, I was like, I'm done. I have had enough. 287 00:18:07.340 --> 00:18:10.620 I've. I'm. I can't do this anymore. I don't. I don't even know 288 00:18:11.020 --> 00:18:14.460 if I want to do this anymore because it just became 289 00:18:14.620 --> 00:18:17.820 so repetitive and. 290 00:18:19.180 --> 00:18:22.780 But by the end of it, I had grown so much 291 00:18:22.860 --> 00:18:26.700 in my skills and just grinding alone, it was 292 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:30.510 worth every bit of it. And I'd do it all again for sure. It's 293 00:18:30.510 --> 00:18:34.190 like you were a monk getting your reps in and, you 294 00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:37.910 know, you came out the other side. Just. 295 00:18:39.270 --> 00:18:42.910 Wow. Yeah. I mean, you know, not to 296 00:18:42.910 --> 00:18:46.550 toot your horn, but I got to say, it's very evident when I 297 00:18:46.550 --> 00:18:50.390 look and I looked at all of the knives on your table and they are 298 00:18:50.390 --> 00:18:53.390 all, you know, 299 00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:56.650 extremely well done. And they look like. 300 00:18:57.290 --> 00:19:00.330 I don't want to say a machine did them because that. That's not even, 301 00:19:01.130 --> 00:19:04.730 you know, they. They just really look so well done. 302 00:19:04.970 --> 00:19:08.490 And you look at them from side to side and everything. And that's from doing 303 00:19:08.490 --> 00:19:11.450 thousands and thousands of knives. No doubt. Yeah. 304 00:19:12.010 --> 00:19:15.690 My. So the two Jake's knives were all serial numbered. 305 00:19:16.010 --> 00:19:18.730 We started that somewhere around the 500 mark 306 00:19:19.770 --> 00:19:22.650 after about 500 knives, which is about a year 307 00:19:23.780 --> 00:19:27.460 and a half of doing it, which the first 500 or 308 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:30.420 so you know, they, they looked 309 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:34.860 like they were Doug blades. You know, they were kit 310 00:19:34.860 --> 00:19:38.660 blades. And once we started making 311 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:42.340 our own blades is when we started serial numbering 312 00:19:42.340 --> 00:19:45.820 them. And the 313 00:19:45.820 --> 00:19:49.290 serial number the last time that I was there in 314 00:19:49.290 --> 00:19:52.010 2022 was 315 00:19:53.050 --> 00:19:56.770 6100. Somewhere in the 6001 hundreds. That 316 00:19:56.770 --> 00:20:00.530 was, that was the, the two Jake's numbers. Where, where were 317 00:20:00.530 --> 00:20:04.090 you selling? So we, we never 318 00:20:04.090 --> 00:20:07.610 did hardly any online sales. My, my 319 00:20:07.610 --> 00:20:10.810 dad specifically traveled all around the country for, 320 00:20:11.290 --> 00:20:15.050 from 2000, about 2012. And 321 00:20:15.050 --> 00:20:18.250 he, he's still out there. I mean, wow. 322 00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:24.370 Every art show that you could possibly imagine, all the big ones like Cherry 323 00:20:24.370 --> 00:20:26.570 wood, Dogwood Arts and apples, 324 00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:32.250 all the major juried shows he was in because at this 325 00:20:32.250 --> 00:20:35.530 stage, you know, the, the knives weren't, they weren't 326 00:20:36.090 --> 00:20:39.850 utilitarian. This is, I did this sheath and this knife as 327 00:20:39.850 --> 00:20:43.560 well. Um, that's another thing. I have a massive, extensive background in 328 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.000 leather work as well. But I just, 329 00:20:47.800 --> 00:20:50.720 I don't know, I feel like it's kind of wasted because I don't get to 330 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.800 spend any time on it. But this is, this is, 331 00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:58.280 this is my personal, this number 4867. 332 00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:02.360 It's kind of hard to see there but this one has Choya 333 00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:05.160 cactus that's filled with crushed Royston turquoise. 334 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.490 It's got walrus cheekbone up front. This 335 00:21:09.490 --> 00:21:13.050 is mammoth tooth. It's a pretty art 336 00:21:13.050 --> 00:21:16.810 knife. It's an art knife to me. This is, you know, this is to 337 00:21:16.810 --> 00:21:20.650 Drake's Damascus. I 338 00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:24.370 made every piece of this to the 339 00:21:24.370 --> 00:21:28.170 steel, you know, and it's got a sharpened Swedish. So not all art. 340 00:21:28.890 --> 00:21:32.250 It is. That's true, that's true. So 341 00:21:33.050 --> 00:21:36.570 I, by the time we were doing this kind of stuff, they had 342 00:21:36.570 --> 00:21:39.770 turned into full on art pieces. So I mean he just 343 00:21:40.250 --> 00:21:43.930 doing the gun shows and any kind of knife shows, 344 00:21:44.090 --> 00:21:47.770 you know, he just went and did art shows because tell you truth, there's 345 00:21:47.770 --> 00:21:51.370 rarely ever any other knife makers there. And 346 00:21:53.050 --> 00:21:56.250 it turned into having a couple of stores 347 00:21:56.970 --> 00:22:00.250 and he's still in a couple of ace 348 00:22:00.490 --> 00:22:04.250 chain of stores, a extremely ritzy high end 349 00:22:04.250 --> 00:22:06.570 western store called Kimo Sabi 350 00:22:07.770 --> 00:22:11.250 there you can look them up and see the knives. There's some two 351 00:22:11.250 --> 00:22:12.810 Jake's knives on there as well. 352 00:22:14.969 --> 00:22:18.530 And they, they actually mark everything up a hundred 353 00:22:18.530 --> 00:22:21.610 percent. I'm not joking, 100%. 354 00:22:22.810 --> 00:22:26.170 And that's, that's so, I mean whatever it would sell at in the store, we'd 355 00:22:26.170 --> 00:22:29.760 get 50% of that even if it was six grand. Wow. 356 00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:33.440 And it, that's, I mean 357 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.720 by the time we done Tapped into the, the art market. 358 00:22:37.760 --> 00:22:41.440 There was no need to change. And, and, but 359 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:41.760 again, 360 00:22:44.959 --> 00:22:47.920 you're, you're selling to a different market. 361 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.600 And, and it takes a different 362 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.500 mentality. It takes a real true seller to be able 363 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:59.300 to sell things like that. And, and I, 364 00:22:59.300 --> 00:23:02.660 I'll. I'll be totally honest with you. I can't bullshit enough 365 00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:06.740 to. I, I can't 366 00:23:07.300 --> 00:23:10.980 bull crap enough to sell things like that. Well, 367 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:14.500 sounds like your dad has that end of things covered. 368 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.660 And, and he's taking care of that and that's cool. And then, and then 369 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.640 eventually you, you light out on your own. 370 00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:26.880 And so how did that happen? Like 371 00:23:27.360 --> 00:23:31.200 after you left the company, how did you decide to. Did 372 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.800 you know you were gonna do another knife company or. No. 373 00:23:35.280 --> 00:23:39.040 So how did. Tell us how the. About the birth of very good knife company. 374 00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:43.280 So things that. Just working with family. I'll just say is. 375 00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:47.450 I'll never be able to tell it all. Not in 15 376 00:23:47.530 --> 00:23:51.290 podcasts. Not in 15 podcasts a day for 377 00:23:51.290 --> 00:23:53.450 15 years. I wouldn't be able to tell you at all. 378 00:23:54.810 --> 00:23:58.530 It's not fun. I'll just say that. And it, it 379 00:23:58.530 --> 00:24:00.330 really changed me as a person. 380 00:24:02.890 --> 00:24:06.490 It has changed my life in every single way that I could have ever 381 00:24:06.490 --> 00:24:10.090 imagined, in ways that I would have never been able to imagine. 382 00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:15.860 So in 2021, 383 00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:21.180 I. I had a dirt bike wreck. It was pretty minor, but 384 00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:23.780 I, I ended up tearing off this finger 385 00:24:25.300 --> 00:24:28.900 and then crushing this one as well. So these two dudes are broke, 386 00:24:30.020 --> 00:24:33.540 but they still work fine. It should have been a minor thing, 387 00:24:34.020 --> 00:24:37.580 but I went to a local hospital instead of the good 388 00:24:37.580 --> 00:24:41.370 hospital because, I mean, I thought it was just. It shouldn't have been 389 00:24:41.370 --> 00:24:44.970 as major as it was, but I ended up back in the 390 00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:48.210 hospital the next day, septic. And it about killed me 391 00:24:49.250 --> 00:24:52.970 over something. I mean it was seriously, I mean, this one was 392 00:24:52.970 --> 00:24:56.770 a hot dog then tore off, but it got drugged through the dirt and the 393 00:24:56.850 --> 00:25:00.170 local hospital sewed it up and I went 394 00:25:00.170 --> 00:25:03.730 septic. And I spent three days in the hospital. It about 395 00:25:03.730 --> 00:25:07.490 killed me and it drained so much energy off of me. 396 00:25:08.530 --> 00:25:11.810 I mean, it's unexplainable how the. How sepsis can 397 00:25:12.290 --> 00:25:16.010 rot you. And the recovery from that was way 398 00:25:16.010 --> 00:25:19.650 more than it should have ever been. So I was out 399 00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:23.330 for a month and a. Well, two months. And during that two months 400 00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:28.050 I built a brand new website for two Jake's. 401 00:25:29.090 --> 00:25:32.130 I spent 250 hours on a brand new website 402 00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:35.900 and it was beautiful. It was a great looking website. 403 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:40.780 And when I was ready to get back into the shop 404 00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:45.580 My place had kind of been taken by someone else 405 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:50.180 and it didn't really bother me. I 406 00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:53.860 knew where I stood with all my skills, but having freshly 407 00:25:53.860 --> 00:25:57.100 broken fingers, I was off the grinder. So I got moved to some other 408 00:25:57.100 --> 00:26:00.870 jobs and it, it just 409 00:26:00.870 --> 00:26:04.590 kind of brought out some true colors and, and to be 410 00:26:04.590 --> 00:26:08.190 totally honest with you, it just needed to happen the whole thing. 411 00:26:08.590 --> 00:26:12.150 And 2022 was a rough year. That was in 412 00:26:12.150 --> 00:26:15.950 December of 2021 when I got wrecked. 413 00:26:16.430 --> 00:26:19.710 And 2022 was a rough year for me 414 00:26:20.110 --> 00:26:23.710 and I was kind of on the side. I've been 415 00:26:23.870 --> 00:26:27.260 riding dirt bikes and, and like amateur 416 00:26:27.260 --> 00:26:31.060 racing level dirt bikes. And I 417 00:26:31.060 --> 00:26:34.860 had a big practice track out back in my last place. And 418 00:26:34.940 --> 00:26:38.220 In June of 2022, I ended up 419 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:42.540 having a wreck and breaking both of my legs. Broke both, 420 00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:46.220 both tib and fib on both sides in a tibial plateau type 4 421 00:26:46.220 --> 00:26:49.980 fracture on my right knee. I spent six months 422 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:52.990 in a wheelchair for, from that one. And 423 00:26:54.590 --> 00:26:58.390 you know, I, I could never help but feel like looking 424 00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:01.430 back, like all of it just needed to happen in order for me to get 425 00:27:01.430 --> 00:27:04.990 the separation that I needed to get and grow the way I needed to grow. 426 00:27:07.069 --> 00:27:10.910 But in my recovery, I was 427 00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:14.310 pretty certain that I never wanted to make knives again. To be totally honest with 428 00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:17.630 you, I had been so burnout for other reasons 429 00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:21.930 that weren't related to the knives, to the knives specifically, but 430 00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:25.050 rather the experience that I was a part of. 431 00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:29.050 You know, it just wasn't good. It wasn't a healthy relationship. 432 00:27:29.210 --> 00:27:32.090 So it was, it just needed to happen. 433 00:27:32.890 --> 00:27:36.010 So by the time 434 00:27:36.010 --> 00:27:39.810 2023 came around, I was about 435 00:27:39.810 --> 00:27:43.090 a month out of therapy, or I was still a month into 436 00:27:43.090 --> 00:27:46.690 therapy. I'd only been standing and walking for about two 437 00:27:46.690 --> 00:27:50.210 months with a ton of assistance as well. 438 00:27:52.290 --> 00:27:56.090 And by, by the time I was ready 439 00:27:56.090 --> 00:27:59.330 to like get back to doing something like work wise, 440 00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:01.170 I had, we had already had 441 00:28:03.170 --> 00:28:06.690 events, had already happened in conversations that already happened, and I had already 442 00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:10.490 quit. I had split with him during. I was in a wheelchair when 443 00:28:10.490 --> 00:28:14.120 I was split with him. And 444 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.920 by the time 2023 came around, I was ready to go back to work. I 445 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.320 didn't know what I was going to do. I just didn't. I didn't know I 446 00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:25.640 had been making knives for 12 years. And 447 00:28:26.600 --> 00:28:29.640 I mean, what else do you do? I mean, it was literally my only job 448 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.320 for 12 years. The only other thing that I did in 449 00:28:33.320 --> 00:28:36.960 those, from 2010 up to 2022 450 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.660 up to now, the only other thing that I've done is tree 451 00:28:40.660 --> 00:28:44.340 service. I helped a friend Grow a tree service 452 00:28:44.420 --> 00:28:48.020 business because I had previously worked in tree 453 00:28:48.020 --> 00:28:51.700 service before not making knives, but that was 454 00:28:51.940 --> 00:28:55.540 also an on the side thing. I was still doing knives full time, 455 00:28:55.700 --> 00:28:58.580 just once or twice a week I was working with him. 456 00:28:59.300 --> 00:29:03.140 But 12 years of making knives and not 457 00:29:03.140 --> 00:29:05.780 really knowing or doing anything else 458 00:29:06.910 --> 00:29:10.670 and I, I'd never really felt 459 00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:14.590 my. Own. Accomplishments 460 00:29:14.590 --> 00:29:18.350 or, or I don't know. I don't know if I didn't feel like 461 00:29:18.670 --> 00:29:22.030 I had done all that I wanted to do with it 462 00:29:22.830 --> 00:29:26.510 in a, in a good state of mind where I wasn't under 463 00:29:26.510 --> 00:29:30.150 stress and, and I wasn't worried about making someone else 464 00:29:30.150 --> 00:29:33.860 happy. It just, just being able to, to do my own 465 00:29:33.860 --> 00:29:35.740 knife making. And 466 00:29:37.420 --> 00:29:41.260 I decided since I already had equipment and I 467 00:29:41.260 --> 00:29:45.060 already had a shop and I already had everything I needed, then I was just 468 00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:48.859 going to go back and, and really dive in and cut 469 00:29:48.859 --> 00:29:52.580 myself off entirely and do 470 00:29:52.580 --> 00:29:56.100 my own thing a hundred percent with nobody else's 471 00:29:56.100 --> 00:29:59.690 fingers in it. Well, so tell us, 472 00:30:00.010 --> 00:30:03.250 what was your initial 473 00:30:03.250 --> 00:30:06.930 philosophy for, for your company and for the knives you're going to be 474 00:30:06.930 --> 00:30:10.490 making and what was your first knife for a very good knife company. 475 00:30:12.730 --> 00:30:16.210 So the name was inspired from a 476 00:30:16.210 --> 00:30:19.690 TV show that I spent a whole bunch of time 477 00:30:19.930 --> 00:30:22.410 in the bed when I was recovering watching, 478 00:30:23.610 --> 00:30:27.220 called Parks and Rec. And what was funny about 479 00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:30.860 Parks and Rec is, is when we first watched 480 00:30:30.860 --> 00:30:34.660 Parks and Rec, I already kind of looked like Ron Swanson and dressed like 481 00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:37.900 Ron Swanson. I already had a mustache and the hair like Ron 482 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:41.060 Swanson. So it just made it hilarious to us 483 00:30:41.860 --> 00:30:45.500 that, you know, I was portrayed stereotypically 484 00:30:45.500 --> 00:30:48.900 in this, in this extreme hit show, you know. 485 00:30:49.220 --> 00:30:53.020 But, you know, in the later of the series of the 486 00:30:53.020 --> 00:30:56.700 show, he started a company called Very Good Building and Development 487 00:30:56.860 --> 00:30:59.820 Company. And, and 488 00:31:00.620 --> 00:31:04.260 pretty much his thing was I wanted 489 00:31:04.260 --> 00:31:07.900 to display the, or portray the quality of my work 490 00:31:07.900 --> 00:31:11.380 without seeing seeming arrogant or too 491 00:31:11.380 --> 00:31:15.100 straightforward. But, you know, telling me pretty much this is what you 492 00:31:15.100 --> 00:31:17.820 get and that's the way it is. And, and 493 00:31:18.860 --> 00:31:22.660 not only that, but it's, it's a name to stand behind too. You 494 00:31:22.660 --> 00:31:26.460 know, you can't just, can't just show up and, and 495 00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:29.740 half ass it. It's got to meet its name and, and it doesn't say the 496 00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:33.100 very best either though. It just says very good. But 497 00:31:34.379 --> 00:31:36.140 to me, people take things 498 00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:41.540 as literally or more literally than they should, and 499 00:31:41.540 --> 00:31:44.890 I'm not going to tell anybody that they're wrong for doing that. I'm not saying 500 00:31:44.890 --> 00:31:46.330 that I don't do that. But 501 00:31:48.810 --> 00:31:52.490 you know, it's, it's not something that I can ever slouch on. I. 502 00:31:52.490 --> 00:31:56.010 I just can't slouch on the name. Very good. So if the product 503 00:31:56.570 --> 00:31:59.930 has got it stamped right on the side, it's. It's pure 504 00:31:59.930 --> 00:32:03.730 accountability, and that's just the way it is. Yeah. Yeah, 505 00:32:03.730 --> 00:32:07.050 no kidding. That's going to keep you, keep you straight for. 506 00:32:07.930 --> 00:32:11.640 For a long time. And I. Jim is now scrolling 507 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.960 through your. Your designs, and you have a lot of 508 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:18.640 designs and as a matter of. Fact, not on there yet. 509 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.920 Like the eagle, which is so cool. This giant sacks. I 510 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.760 love that thing. So what, what was the, 511 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:30.360 the initial design like? Were the 512 00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:34.000 initial designs for hunters or just. Just kind of 513 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.810 anyone who needed a knife? Yeah, EDC kind of stuff. So on the, 514 00:32:37.810 --> 00:32:41.610 on the page there, you'd see the. The number one knife is 515 00:32:41.610 --> 00:32:45.170 the adventure. And so I actually started making this 516 00:32:45.170 --> 00:32:48.890 knife with bloodline, and it looked a 517 00:32:48.890 --> 00:32:52.290 little different, but this is the bloodline 518 00:32:52.290 --> 00:32:55.930 adventure and the blades pretty much the same. 519 00:32:56.330 --> 00:33:00.010 I just found places that I could make changes and do 520 00:33:00.010 --> 00:33:03.660 better. But I carried this 521 00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:06.300 knife from the day I made it. 522 00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:11.540 I carried it for two and a half years, and it went around the country 523 00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:15.340 with me doing art shows with my dad. And I 524 00:33:15.340 --> 00:33:19.100 quit carrying it because the sheep quit holding a knife, 525 00:33:19.100 --> 00:33:22.060 and I was too attached to it by that point to let it go. 526 00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:26.220 And then I ended up changing it into 527 00:33:26.540 --> 00:33:29.190 what it is now. This is a 528 00:33:29.830 --> 00:33:33.550 bloodline adventure. This is the revised version, and it 529 00:33:33.550 --> 00:33:37.110 is pretty much identical to what I make now. 530 00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:41.470 And so that was already my favorite knife. And I knew that that 531 00:33:41.470 --> 00:33:45.190 was going to be. That was going to be the number on 532 00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:47.990 my flagship. And it today, it is still. 533 00:33:49.430 --> 00:33:53.270 It's not my number one seller, but I do 534 00:33:53.270 --> 00:33:56.950 think it is my number one knife. It's my number two seller, 535 00:33:56.950 --> 00:34:00.700 and it gets beat by something that fluctuates. So, I mean, 536 00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:04.220 it's hard to say that it's not number one when it's consistently number 537 00:34:04.220 --> 00:34:08.020 two. Right, right, right. So up against 538 00:34:08.020 --> 00:34:11.820 all these other knives, it hasn't moved from that number two spot. So, I 539 00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:15.060 mean, to me, it's still number one. But so do you. Do you find that 540 00:34:15.060 --> 00:34:17.780 number one is whatever your newest thing is. 541 00:34:20.420 --> 00:34:24.070 Has changed? And it. My number one 542 00:34:24.070 --> 00:34:27.310 seller can be whatever I want to be because I. I can only make so 543 00:34:27.310 --> 00:34:30.990 much at one time, but I do like to spread it out, and I 544 00:34:30.990 --> 00:34:34.790 do like to drop as many, as much variety as I 545 00:34:34.790 --> 00:34:38.510 can. There are some models that I don't 546 00:34:38.510 --> 00:34:42.270 make because they won't sell, and then there are some 547 00:34:42.270 --> 00:34:46.030 models that I can't make enough of. One of those would be the, the 548 00:34:46.030 --> 00:34:49.680 Tradition Junior. It's, it's 549 00:34:49.680 --> 00:34:53.400 my number one seller above everything else that 550 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.240 was a number one seller. If I make these, they don't stay 551 00:34:57.240 --> 00:35:01.040 in the store ever. They never have and they probably never will. It's kind 552 00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:04.720 of like nessmuk, right? Yeah. But if I make, if 553 00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:08.400 I make wasps, then they'll sell to. They will sit 554 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.280 around longer than a Tradition Junior. 555 00:35:12.040 --> 00:35:15.340 Still, though, adventures are, are king. But 556 00:35:16.460 --> 00:35:19.580 I. When I first started Very Knife Company, I had 557 00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:27.060 five models, maybe six. I had the 558 00:35:27.060 --> 00:35:30.540 adventure, the tradition, Roughneck, Lineman, 559 00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:34.500 Mantis, and wasp. So six models is what I started 560 00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:38.020 with. This is a bloodline 561 00:35:38.020 --> 00:35:41.680 tradition and it is a little different looking than the, the current 562 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:45.600 tradition that I make. But this was a pretty hot 563 00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:48.160 one that I used to sell quite a bit. 564 00:35:50.080 --> 00:35:53.760 And Bloodline was pretty much the same thing as Very Good Knife 565 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:57.439 company is. It just had a little different look. But 566 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.760 my, my philosophy was pretty much the same. Although 567 00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:06.440 I do like the name Very Good Knife Company Much better. So the 568 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.640 philosophy was knives that working. Working. 569 00:36:10.040 --> 00:36:13.800 Yeah. Working man could afford and for lack of a 570 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.320 better term, be lovingly beat up. Absolutely. 571 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.120 And. Yep. Yeah, I think, I think you nailed it. But, but something that 572 00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:24.720 maybe you weren't, maybe you weren't expecting 573 00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:28.280 or, or I don't know. I, I mean, I can see the difference between 574 00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.320 this first strike I have in front of me and your bloodline knives. 575 00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.440 They're so clean. The, the, the designs are 576 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:39.240 clean and the execution is, is just so clean and 577 00:36:39.240 --> 00:36:43.000 impeccable on all the knives I saw on your table. But of 578 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:45.640 course, this is the one I have the most exposure to. Now 579 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:49.960 that's a good one to have exposure to because it's really, 580 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.280 to me, it's, it's, it's one of my best, if not the best. 581 00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:57.240 It's one of my favorites. I like big clip points 582 00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.640 and, and I, I don't know. I, I think it's just 583 00:37:01.640 --> 00:37:05.140 so, just in. It's fun to just hold. The 584 00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:08.620 integrated double guards are my heart and 585 00:37:08.620 --> 00:37:12.380 soul. And cleanliness is one thing that I 586 00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:15.740 learned. The knife needed to be, whether it was a custom, 587 00:37:16.220 --> 00:37:20.060 whether it was a, a beater, it didn't. It doesn't really matter to 588 00:37:20.060 --> 00:37:22.780 me. The knife needs to be finished. 589 00:37:24.860 --> 00:37:28.220 Having been to Blade show so many years, 590 00:37:29.030 --> 00:37:32.750 I've seen so many knives and handled so many knives, and I know 591 00:37:32.750 --> 00:37:36.510 I'm not the only one in the world, but as a maker, you have 592 00:37:36.510 --> 00:37:39.510 to choose to intake something. And I intake. I 593 00:37:40.710 --> 00:37:44.550 I was most inspired by the knives 594 00:37:44.629 --> 00:37:47.110 that did not stand out at Blade show 595 00:37:48.310 --> 00:37:49.670 because when I was a kid, 596 00:37:52.150 --> 00:37:55.960 you know, 20 years ago when, when you went to Blade show and I 597 00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.760 went to Blade show before having made knives as well. 598 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.560 When you, when you go to Blade show and the, 599 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.840 the qu. Your quality isn't there, then you're judged for 600 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:13.680 that, you know, because you took up a spot at a table that 601 00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:16.720 somebody else was trying to get. 602 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:20.410 So you, you, 603 00:38:21.050 --> 00:38:24.890 you either show up with good stuff or you don't show up next year. 604 00:38:25.450 --> 00:38:28.090 And for me, 605 00:38:29.930 --> 00:38:33.050 my most important aspect of, of 606 00:38:33.690 --> 00:38:37.370 finishing any knife is, is actually finishing the knife and 607 00:38:37.370 --> 00:38:40.410 not leaving any little micro detail 608 00:38:40.650 --> 00:38:43.450 anywhere for anyone to pick apart. 609 00:38:44.170 --> 00:38:47.880 And, and it doesn't mean that that's perfect perfection. And I don't feel 610 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:51.160 like we should, we as the community should settle for 611 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:56.640 anyone telling you that it must be a massive amount of 612 00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:00.480 money for it to be cleanly finished like that. 613 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:04.280 I disagree. And that is why I run my 614 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:08.080 own race here. So I like my knives to 615 00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:11.800 be as cleanly finished as humanly possible. I don't, 616 00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:15.490 I don't know that it can get any cleaner, it can get better, it can 617 00:39:15.490 --> 00:39:18.650 get prettier and that's fine. But 618 00:39:19.690 --> 00:39:23.210 clean is the name of the game for me. Clean is also the name of 619 00:39:23.210 --> 00:39:26.890 the game in your designing at how do you 620 00:39:26.970 --> 00:39:29.290 come up with new designs? What's your design process? 621 00:39:30.490 --> 00:39:33.370 So during 622 00:39:34.170 --> 00:39:37.810 doing the Doug Blades for, for Premium Knife 623 00:39:37.810 --> 00:39:41.470 Supply, I, I was granted the 624 00:39:41.470 --> 00:39:44.710 opportunity to hold a bunch of designs that sucked. 625 00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:48.990 I mean I'm, I mean I, I really mean it with 626 00:39:48.990 --> 00:39:52.790 the deepest intentions. They suck really bad 627 00:39:53.190 --> 00:39:56.589 and they were, 90% of those knives were 628 00:39:56.589 --> 00:40:00.430 terrible. Like the design was not thought out. 629 00:40:00.430 --> 00:40:03.750 It was all done on CAD without ever having feeling anything. 630 00:40:04.150 --> 00:40:07.750 They were sent off. You know, and he knew this. It's not a big 631 00:40:07.750 --> 00:40:11.110 deal. You know, that wasn't the, that wasn't the 632 00:40:11.110 --> 00:40:14.670 purpose of, of his sales 633 00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:16.630 or target. Rather 634 00:40:18.630 --> 00:40:22.310 I was granted the opportunity to touch a whole bunch of 635 00:40:22.550 --> 00:40:26.229 no good knives. And so you learn what not to do. That's 636 00:40:26.229 --> 00:40:30.070 a, that's a good way to start with. Designing knives is 637 00:40:30.230 --> 00:40:33.350 over and over and over feeling every little 638 00:40:33.830 --> 00:40:37.320 trial of, of aesthetics. I mean 639 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:40.960 really that's what a lot of it is is aesthetic 640 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.960 issues or rather chasing 641 00:40:44.120 --> 00:40:47.400 aesthetic quality rather than 642 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:51.320 actual hand feel quality, if that makes 643 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:54.760 any sense. So 644 00:40:56.120 --> 00:40:59.880 when we were doing during the two Jake, so 645 00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:03.420 we did a whole bunch of custom stuff and, and lots of 646 00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:06.940 Damascus work, but I did make a whole bunch of, 647 00:41:07.580 --> 00:41:11.340 a bunch of knives like this you know, I, 648 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:14.860 I just did because there was always people at the shows 649 00:41:15.020 --> 00:41:18.780 that would want something like that. To me, I always 650 00:41:18.940 --> 00:41:22.580 found or shook hands with more people that 651 00:41:22.580 --> 00:41:26.340 wanted anything, anything that you could just use 652 00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:29.420 or beat up. You know, I heard more times you got anything that you can 653 00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:32.740 actually use, use, you know, because they look at them and be like, dang, they're 654 00:41:32.740 --> 00:41:36.380 pretty, but I don't want to use it. So we started making 655 00:41:36.380 --> 00:41:40.220 knives you could use. And of course, 656 00:41:40.220 --> 00:41:43.900 they look like very good knife company knives. That's just what they look like. 657 00:41:43.900 --> 00:41:47.540 And, and I, 658 00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:51.380 I would go up to the grinder. I would cut out 659 00:41:51.700 --> 00:41:55.460 knife after knife. This was for two Jake stuff. I would, I would 660 00:41:55.460 --> 00:41:59.010 take pieces of bar stock and cut them into short 661 00:41:59.010 --> 00:42:02.690 pieces. No marking, no nothing. Just walk up to the 662 00:42:02.690 --> 00:42:06.410 grinder and profile out the shape of a knife. It didn't matter 663 00:42:06.410 --> 00:42:10.130 what it was. We didn't need patterns. We didn't need anything. You know, all 664 00:42:10.130 --> 00:42:13.090 the handles are glued and pinned on, so it's not like I was trying to 665 00:42:13.090 --> 00:42:16.170 fit a CNC handle or anything. You know, everything was 666 00:42:16.650 --> 00:42:20.490 just flying by the seat of our pants as fast as we could possibly make 667 00:42:20.490 --> 00:42:21.770 them. And 668 00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:28.010 so having tried everything, you just. 669 00:42:28.250 --> 00:42:32.010 I, I grew a mental note of what works and what doesn't with 670 00:42:32.010 --> 00:42:35.810 a knife. And so I had that to 671 00:42:35.810 --> 00:42:38.890 start with. That's. That's a biggie for designing knives. 672 00:42:40.170 --> 00:42:43.650 If I'm designing anything new now, it's still going on 673 00:42:43.650 --> 00:42:47.250 paper. Like, this is a new one that I have going. This is my 674 00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:50.750 next newest model. This is the counter strike. 675 00:42:50.830 --> 00:42:54.590 Oh, cool. And it's an EDC size first strike. 676 00:42:55.230 --> 00:42:58.790 And which some people might look at you 677 00:42:58.790 --> 00:43:01.150 crazy. Like, what I EDC that thing anyway. 678 00:43:02.830 --> 00:43:06.430 No, no, thanks. I mean, you would. I wouldn't, but that's fine. 679 00:43:06.670 --> 00:43:10.470 You know, around here it's probably okay, but in the city, you might get 680 00:43:10.470 --> 00:43:14.090 frowned upon. Oh, that looks cool. Cool. I 681 00:43:14.090 --> 00:43:17.810 mean, and I love the, the look of that handle too. I like 682 00:43:17.810 --> 00:43:20.570 the integrated guard, the short clip point. 683 00:43:21.450 --> 00:43:24.930 I. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be keeping my eyes out for that. So you 684 00:43:24.930 --> 00:43:27.850 do it all on paper. Some of them. 685 00:43:29.290 --> 00:43:33.010 If I know exactly what I'm going for and I don't have something 686 00:43:33.010 --> 00:43:36.730 that's close already, I'll just run to the grinder 687 00:43:36.890 --> 00:43:40.380 and I'll just cut it out like a sculptor. Like I said, 688 00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:43.580 I've. My, my. In all 689 00:43:43.580 --> 00:43:47.060 seriousness, my knife count is over probably 16 or 690 00:43:47.060 --> 00:43:48.580 17,000 at this point. 691 00:43:52.180 --> 00:43:55.540 I don't know what more I need to, to just pull it right out of 692 00:43:55.540 --> 00:43:58.700 the brain. And I feel like I have a harder time with things if I 693 00:43:58.700 --> 00:44:02.340 put them on paper. But then sometimes if 694 00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:05.990 you're, if you're running off of, like, the, like the 695 00:44:05.990 --> 00:44:09.750 counter strike. It took me a few. A few drawings to get 696 00:44:09.750 --> 00:44:13.590 it where I felt like I wanted it. The thing is, I'll take 697 00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:16.590 it from this and I'll take it to the grinder, and it won't come out 698 00:44:16.910 --> 00:44:20.270 exactly like this. It'll come out slightly different because 699 00:44:22.030 --> 00:44:25.830 I can't feel this piece of paper. When I get it in my hands, I'll. 700 00:44:25.830 --> 00:44:29.310 I'll change what I need to change. And I'll. And I'll. 701 00:44:29.710 --> 00:44:33.250 And I'll. I can feel things. I mean, I've just gotten used to 702 00:44:33.250 --> 00:44:36.490 feeling things, what they feel like before having handles. 703 00:44:37.050 --> 00:44:40.250 And like I said, knowing what doesn't work 704 00:44:40.570 --> 00:44:43.450 is probably more important than. 705 00:44:44.170 --> 00:44:47.969 Than knowing what does work for sure. And then 706 00:44:47.969 --> 00:44:51.130 once you're at the grinder, it can kind of talk back to you, right. 707 00:44:51.450 --> 00:44:54.450 And you know, every time you put it in your hand. So maybe I need 708 00:44:54.450 --> 00:44:57.930 to. On paper, it looked like this was a cool area, but 709 00:44:58.290 --> 00:45:02.090 spot on. I need to take some off. I want to ask you about your 710 00:45:02.090 --> 00:45:05.650 build process, but since we're talking about design, can you show the 711 00:45:05.650 --> 00:45:09.170 eagle? I believe it is this, this thing. 712 00:45:09.490 --> 00:45:13.250 This was, it was a hard decision between this and the, and 713 00:45:13.250 --> 00:45:16.970 the counter. So this is my personal eagle. This 714 00:45:16.970 --> 00:45:20.530 is one of the first three that were made. The other two belong to Gabe 715 00:45:22.450 --> 00:45:26.220 and I. I didn't keep a huntsman when 716 00:45:26.220 --> 00:45:29.900 we did the Huntsman design, and I really 717 00:45:29.900 --> 00:45:33.740 wanted one. So when he, he bought the 718 00:45:33.740 --> 00:45:37.540 first two and I made the third one because it was an extra, and 719 00:45:37.540 --> 00:45:40.940 I was like, this was mine. I'm keeping it. I'm not getting rid of this. 720 00:45:41.340 --> 00:45:45.060 And so I did, and I absolutely abused the heck out 721 00:45:45.060 --> 00:45:47.420 of it. I, I beat it up to where I had to put a new 722 00:45:47.420 --> 00:45:51.020 edge on it. I, I spent a 723 00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:54.620 couple weekends clearing trails in the woods with it, and 724 00:45:56.060 --> 00:45:59.180 I, I guess I have a tendency to be a little bit more 725 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:02.460 aggressive on knives, mainly. 726 00:46:03.820 --> 00:46:07.580 I, I didn't really figure this out or, or consider this, 727 00:46:07.580 --> 00:46:11.180 but it's probably because I can just go make myself another 728 00:46:11.740 --> 00:46:15.490 that I don't have the same kind of respect of, oh, I probably shouldn't 729 00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:19.400 break this. I, I would just rather go test it 730 00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.600 and, and find out. I mean, really, I want to know. 731 00:46:23.080 --> 00:46:26.840 And people don't really care what the maker has to say. They want to 732 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:30.440 know what other people have to say about their knives. So I don't video a 733 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:34.040 whole bunch of it and I did do, I do have some abuse testing videos 734 00:46:34.040 --> 00:46:37.680 on YouTube. One of them is with this knife. 735 00:46:37.680 --> 00:46:41.000 And this is the Roughneck. I, 736 00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:45.620 I still make this one, but is probably my second least most popular 737 00:46:45.620 --> 00:46:48.940 knife. This one actually cut a nail. You can see it right there. 738 00:46:49.420 --> 00:46:52.940 And it, it handled it exactly perfect, like a champ. 739 00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:57.780 I, I, I very much abused this knife and it held 740 00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:01.340 up to all of it. Of course it's 316 thick, but it is hollow 741 00:47:01.340 --> 00:47:05.060 grind and, and it's only about 25,000ths at the 742 00:47:05.060 --> 00:47:08.900 edge. So I mean, it handled everything exactly the way that I would want 743 00:47:08.900 --> 00:47:12.600 it to handle it. But I get 744 00:47:12.680 --> 00:47:16.520 kind of abusive with testing, just using in general. 745 00:47:18.520 --> 00:47:21.800 I really want to know. But the Eagle, 746 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:26.560 man, this thing is so cool. It really, really 747 00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:29.400 is a cool knife. Like a field. 748 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:35.280 It is a hand, that's 749 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.020 for sure. I do have a Huntsman here, though, that 750 00:47:39.020 --> 00:47:42.860 I, I keep forgetting to put on the website. But it's the one that 751 00:47:43.020 --> 00:47:46.700 you probably, you probably handles this one at Blade Show. 752 00:47:46.700 --> 00:47:50.020 Oh, yeah, that I had on the table. This is the Huntsman. This was 753 00:47:50.020 --> 00:47:52.780 Gabe's first design that I did. 754 00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:57.340 And it's got the exact same handle, tit for tat 755 00:47:57.420 --> 00:48:00.380 as the Eagle. They are identical. 756 00:48:01.740 --> 00:48:05.420 His handle was inspired by the, the BK7 757 00:48:06.690 --> 00:48:10.450 with the, with that exposed pommel 758 00:48:12.290 --> 00:48:15.930 and a lot of curvature and, and it really 759 00:48:15.930 --> 00:48:19.610 allows you to move around. I've only heard like one or two people say that 760 00:48:19.610 --> 00:48:23.290 their hands don't fit in this. Well, I, you know, I can't account for 761 00:48:23.290 --> 00:48:27.130 Shaquille o' Neal when I'm designing knives either, because, I 762 00:48:27.130 --> 00:48:30.770 mean, there's only one Shaquille o'. Neal. Just saying. I mean, 763 00:48:30.770 --> 00:48:34.520 not everybody is seven feet tall and has, has bear paws. 764 00:48:34.520 --> 00:48:38.320 So that's a big handle. I got to have to handle cabs. 765 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:42.080 It's, it's huge. Yeah, it's a, it's a lot of handle. 766 00:48:42.080 --> 00:48:45.760 But, yeah, it's been, it was a fun project for sure. 767 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:49.600 And I, I quite like it. You know, I, 768 00:48:49.600 --> 00:48:53.040 I wanted to ask you, and I keep putting it off. 769 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.120 How do you make them, like, take a 770 00:48:57.120 --> 00:49:00.820 soup to nuts through making one of these knives? I, you have. And the reason 771 00:49:00.820 --> 00:49:04.340 I ask you that is because I, I totally, it 772 00:49:04.340 --> 00:49:07.500 resonates with me, this idea of walking up to the grinder and, 773 00:49:08.060 --> 00:49:11.820 you know, you having something in mind but having things change. But, you know, you 774 00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:15.580 have regular models and they're, they look, they seem to 775 00:49:15.580 --> 00:49:18.940 be all the same, so how do. You make them 776 00:49:20.060 --> 00:49:23.180 so for anybody that wants to actually see it like really 777 00:49:23.500 --> 00:49:27.230 detailed in depth? Um, if you go on my YouTube channel, you 778 00:49:27.230 --> 00:49:30.750 can find. I have videos that show every 779 00:49:30.750 --> 00:49:34.310 single process. I mean I don't hide a single thing, nothing. 780 00:49:34.710 --> 00:49:38.470 Um, there's no real secrets that need to be kept in, 781 00:49:38.470 --> 00:49:41.510 in basic knife making. But 782 00:49:42.310 --> 00:49:45.990 everything starts out in bar stock form. I use three different 783 00:49:46.470 --> 00:49:50.150 stock thicknesses. I use 316 stock. I 784 00:49:50.150 --> 00:49:53.690 use 532 stock which is something 785 00:49:54.570 --> 00:49:57.450 this, this size right here compared to the 316 786 00:49:58.490 --> 00:50:02.210 and, and I use 8 inch which is about as thin 787 00:50:02.210 --> 00:50:05.970 as I like to go. Um, I do like knives a little beefy, but everything 788 00:50:05.970 --> 00:50:09.770 starts in bar stock. And I, 789 00:50:09.850 --> 00:50:13.610 I don't use water jet currently. I have used water jet in the past. I 790 00:50:13.610 --> 00:50:17.290 did use water jet with, with bloodline 791 00:50:17.850 --> 00:50:21.370 and, and I do have some knives that are water jet but, 792 00:50:21.750 --> 00:50:24.870 and I'm not that I'm anti. I just, I haven't done it. 793 00:50:26.470 --> 00:50:28.950 But here's a cud. This one's been water jet. 794 00:50:30.070 --> 00:50:33.510 It's not anything fancy but this is 795 00:50:34.470 --> 00:50:38.190 revival of that cub that I used to make it. Anyway, aside from 796 00:50:38.190 --> 00:50:42.030 this particular knife, every single thing is hand blank. All 797 00:50:42.030 --> 00:50:45.830 of them. Wow. And I did a live stream. 798 00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:50.230 Was it yesterday or the day before? I, 799 00:50:50.230 --> 00:50:53.950 I do try and go live in the shop and I show 800 00:50:53.950 --> 00:50:57.470 all, most all of the processes on live 801 00:50:57.470 --> 00:51:01.070 stream too. Sometimes I'm live four or five 802 00:51:01.070 --> 00:51:04.750 hours. But anyhow, everything is bar stock. 803 00:51:05.310 --> 00:51:09.030 It's all, it's all stock removal. I use 804 00:51:09.030 --> 00:51:12.590 layout dye in old school patterns. That's, that's the way that I was 805 00:51:13.870 --> 00:51:17.580 taught to do things. And I shadowed 806 00:51:17.580 --> 00:51:21.260 some people. Like I learned a good bit from Ray 807 00:51:21.260 --> 00:51:24.780 Ennis from Ntreck knife raised dead. Now 808 00:51:25.660 --> 00:51:29.420 to Love N Track knives. Yep, yep. Some of the best ever 809 00:51:29.420 --> 00:51:32.860 made to probably the best ever made with 440C, that's for sure. 810 00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:37.020 But anyhow, Ray 811 00:51:38.060 --> 00:51:41.870 was a good knife maker and I learned the 812 00:51:41.870 --> 00:51:45.510 things that I needed to learn about cutting corners 813 00:51:45.830 --> 00:51:49.430 efficiently and not the wrong way. Things 814 00:51:49.430 --> 00:51:53.190 that you just don't need to do and things you do need to do. 815 00:51:53.270 --> 00:51:56.990 So I, I still do things the way that he was 816 00:51:56.990 --> 00:52:00.470 doing things which is layout, die and pattern. 817 00:52:00.470 --> 00:52:04.310 So everything's hand blanked and, and I'm. 818 00:52:04.310 --> 00:52:08.080 And I'm able to get them. I mean as 819 00:52:08.080 --> 00:52:11.640 close as water jet cutting is, is able to get them. I don't feel that 820 00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:14.240 it needs to be any more precise. Um, 821 00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:19.120 I, I do all, every process in house, even heat treating. So heat 822 00:52:19.120 --> 00:52:22.120 treating. Sometimes I do that on Live stream as well. You can watch that as 823 00:52:22.120 --> 00:52:25.760 well. Um, but I do have a video on that. I heat treatment 824 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:29.680 in an old even heat kiln, a set pro. It's, I had to 825 00:52:29.680 --> 00:52:32.640 do have a new kiln coming, but they take six to eight weeks. So 826 00:52:33.510 --> 00:52:36.750 hopefully mine survives that much longer because it's done 827 00:52:36.750 --> 00:52:39.750 thousands and thousands and thousands of knives. And, 828 00:52:41.910 --> 00:52:45.270 and as, as far as, as far as 829 00:52:45.590 --> 00:52:48.950 handles go, handles are as basic as it gets. 830 00:52:50.070 --> 00:52:53.750 I, I use basic materials, things that won't 831 00:52:53.750 --> 00:52:56.990 really have any issue with durability, like 832 00:52:56.990 --> 00:53:00.790 Micarta. I love canvas Micarta because it's, it's almost as tough 833 00:53:00.790 --> 00:53:04.110 as the steel. And, and 834 00:53:04.430 --> 00:53:08.230 I, I really like to simplify things. So 835 00:53:08.230 --> 00:53:12.070 I do have, I 836 00:53:12.070 --> 00:53:15.749 have little jigs and little setups that help 837 00:53:15.749 --> 00:53:18.990 me here and there. But as far as like the grinding goes, 838 00:53:19.710 --> 00:53:23.510 everything's done 100% freehand. I don't, I don't use jigs. I don't 839 00:53:23.510 --> 00:53:26.990 use, I don't use any jigs at all for grinding them. 840 00:53:27.250 --> 00:53:31.050 In fact, when we first started trying to learn how to hollow grind, we ended 841 00:53:31.050 --> 00:53:34.490 up buying one of those $800 hollow 842 00:53:34.490 --> 00:53:38.090 grinding jigs from Jants and they were always 843 00:53:38.090 --> 00:53:41.930 advertised in Blade magazine. And, and we thought 844 00:53:41.930 --> 00:53:45.570 that's got to be it. That's got to be the game changer. And it, 845 00:53:45.570 --> 00:53:49.370 it probably did 50 or 60 knives, ended 846 00:53:49.370 --> 00:53:53.210 up in a cabinet somewhere. I don't know where it is nowadays. But 847 00:53:53.210 --> 00:53:56.970 it, it wasn't efficient. And you 848 00:53:56.970 --> 00:53:59.810 know, there's a lot of people that are grinding with jigs now. And I have 849 00:53:59.810 --> 00:54:03.570 no hate towards you, but in truth, if, 850 00:54:03.570 --> 00:54:06.370 if any of you want to ever progress, you got to get it out. You 851 00:54:06.370 --> 00:54:09.450 got to get out of that. Because the time that you're wasting 852 00:54:10.330 --> 00:54:13.890 and the things that you're not learning, by not holding the knife and 853 00:54:13.890 --> 00:54:17.610 feeling it, you can get better. 854 00:54:17.850 --> 00:54:21.210 But there are ways to simplify things for sure. 855 00:54:22.070 --> 00:54:25.790 And I've, I, I mean that's half of my job 856 00:54:25.790 --> 00:54:29.270 on, on, on the daily is trying to figure out other 857 00:54:29.270 --> 00:54:32.990 ways to simplify things. And my recent job has 858 00:54:32.990 --> 00:54:36.470 been trying to figure out how to simplify things to teach someone else. 859 00:54:36.790 --> 00:54:40.590 I'm, I'm hopefully bringing an apprentice here real soon, so. Oh, 860 00:54:40.590 --> 00:54:44.350 okay. Well, I was going to ask you what, what the number one thing you've 861 00:54:44.350 --> 00:54:47.990 learned in this knife, in this particular 862 00:54:47.990 --> 00:54:51.820 knife is. Business. Very good knife company. As opposed to the other 863 00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:55.540 knife outfits, including two Jake's before. What's the 864 00:54:55.540 --> 00:54:57.420 number one business thing you've learned? 865 00:54:59.260 --> 00:55:03.060 Well, nothing's for certain that's for 866 00:55:03.060 --> 00:55:04.860 sure. I have learned, 867 00:55:08.060 --> 00:55:11.820 I have learned that in knife making you go 868 00:55:11.820 --> 00:55:15.180 one of two ways. You continue to go custom 869 00:55:17.250 --> 00:55:20.370 or you, or you take it to a next step 870 00:55:21.010 --> 00:55:23.330 and, and you go production. 871 00:55:24.610 --> 00:55:27.810 If you, if you try and stay in between for too long, 872 00:55:28.690 --> 00:55:32.330 you will burn yourself out. I guarantee you, you will burn 873 00:55:32.330 --> 00:55:35.890 yourself out. I understand 874 00:55:36.450 --> 00:55:40.050 burnout on knife making to the deepest of 875 00:55:40.050 --> 00:55:43.840 levels. I've made knives, hundreds of 876 00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.040 knives in a row that I did not want to make, that I didn't want 877 00:55:47.040 --> 00:55:50.440 to do. I didn't want anything to do with them. And the thing is, 878 00:55:51.160 --> 00:55:54.560 if, if you've overextended 879 00:55:54.560 --> 00:55:58.200 yourself, you're losing sight of what you originally started for, 880 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.400 even if it is going to a high level. 881 00:56:04.680 --> 00:56:08.450 So for me, I've learned that this definitely 882 00:56:08.450 --> 00:56:12.210 staying in your lane as far as what kind of 883 00:56:12.210 --> 00:56:13.170 knives you make. 884 00:56:15.810 --> 00:56:19.410 You, you gotta pick, you really gotta pick in this industry because 885 00:56:20.690 --> 00:56:24.450 both directions will eat you alive. If you want to compete, 886 00:56:24.610 --> 00:56:27.570 if you, if you want to contend, if you really want to get your name 887 00:56:27.570 --> 00:56:29.650 out there, both sides will eat you alive. 888 00:56:31.330 --> 00:56:34.890 Obviously one side is gonna take a lot more money and a lot more 889 00:56:34.890 --> 00:56:36.450 business mindset. 890 00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:42.510 For me, it was a matter of choosing what do I want to do for 891 00:56:42.510 --> 00:56:45.590 the rest of my life, what do I want to 892 00:56:46.070 --> 00:56:49.430 not do for the rest of my life, and where do I want to leave 893 00:56:49.430 --> 00:56:53.190 off on this. And I would like to, 894 00:56:53.670 --> 00:56:56.950 I would really like to have this self sustaining 895 00:56:57.270 --> 00:57:01.070 because I feel like I've done the 896 00:57:01.070 --> 00:57:04.150 things that I set out to do. I originally set out to 897 00:57:05.640 --> 00:57:08.760 very good knife company. I wanted to, to just 898 00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.160 be totally honest, I wanted to change the industry. I feel like there's 899 00:57:13.160 --> 00:57:16.920 too many, too many makers that are on the 900 00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:20.120 in between and they're making 901 00:57:20.359 --> 00:57:23.720 production or custom production style, 902 00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:27.720 level, quality of knives, but 903 00:57:27.720 --> 00:57:31.380 they're selling them at custom prices. And 904 00:57:34.340 --> 00:57:38.020 it can work if you have a market, but you will run out of market 905 00:57:38.020 --> 00:57:41.740 eventually. And if you don't pick 906 00:57:41.740 --> 00:57:45.380 a lane, you have to pick a lane. And if you're 907 00:57:45.380 --> 00:57:49.220 gonna do custom, then do custom. If you're gonna sell them as custom, 908 00:57:49.220 --> 00:57:52.820 sell them as custom. If you're gonna do production, sell them as production. Because 909 00:57:53.540 --> 00:57:57.180 there's no reason for, for someone to logically 910 00:57:57.180 --> 00:57:59.780 go and buy a knife that is, 911 00:58:02.100 --> 00:58:04.820 you know, on this level of custom. Now this is custom. 912 00:58:06.020 --> 00:58:09.140 You could say this is custom if you want. But 913 00:58:10.340 --> 00:58:13.860 you know, 15 other knives are made exactly the same way as this one. 914 00:58:14.020 --> 00:58:17.700 And they all look identical. In fact, they all fit the same sheath mold 915 00:58:17.700 --> 00:58:21.100 that is not made exactly for this, but it is just 916 00:58:21.100 --> 00:58:23.550 slightly different. So it does fit, right. 917 00:58:26.030 --> 00:58:29.630 The finding a good balance of. 918 00:58:32.030 --> 00:58:35.790 How do I say this without stabbing anyone? 919 00:58:36.910 --> 00:58:38.910 Finding a good balance of 920 00:58:41.550 --> 00:58:44.990 value and quality. All. 921 00:58:46.590 --> 00:58:50.400 It's subjective. Everything is so subjective because 922 00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:54.240 everybody's opinion of what something is worth is totally different. 923 00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:59.240 But it's hard to call this custom when 924 00:58:59.240 --> 00:59:02.880 you can buy something so incredibly close to it. That is 925 00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:06.480 production. And the sad truth is nowadays, 926 00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:10.440 and this way is probably always going to be this way, but the production 927 00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:14.080 one is probably better than that custom one 928 00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:18.230 because it may be more precise than that custom one. You know 929 00:59:18.230 --> 00:59:21.830 what I'm saying? It. It. So 930 00:59:21.830 --> 00:59:25.430 it. If you're going to do custom work, go do custom work 931 00:59:25.430 --> 00:59:28.790 and don't settle for simple things. Go better get 932 00:59:28.790 --> 00:59:32.310 bigger. And not necessarily bigger in terms of 933 00:59:32.630 --> 00:59:36.390 like how much you're putting out, but like show people what you're capable of 934 00:59:36.790 --> 00:59:40.550 and get creative with things. Instead of trying to simplify a 935 00:59:40.550 --> 00:59:43.750 custom knife, custom up a custom knife and simplify 936 00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:47.840 your production knives. That's what kind of advice I would have. 937 00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:51.600 That would be my number one thing. The things that I've learned. 938 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:56.120 Jacob, as we wrap here, two things. I just want 939 00:59:56.120 --> 00:59:59.840 to make an observation. I mean, you, you call your knives production, and, 940 00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:03.680 and I, I trust and believe you, but you cut 941 01:00:03.680 --> 01:00:07.120 each one out by hand and your hands are on each one. 942 01:00:07.600 --> 01:00:11.420 So it's something a little bit different from production and something a 943 01:00:11.420 --> 01:00:15.140 little bit different custom. But I'm, I'm incredibly impressed. 944 01:00:15.140 --> 01:00:18.620 I didn't, I wasn't expecting you to. I wasn't 945 01:00:18.620 --> 01:00:22.220 expecting that because they are all so fine, so well 946 01:00:22.220 --> 01:00:26.060 made. And, and, and each model seems to be so 947 01:00:26.060 --> 01:00:29.580 much like one. The one sitting right next to it. 948 01:00:29.660 --> 01:00:32.900 Tell people how you do your drops and how they can get in touch with 949 01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:36.460 you, how they can buy a very good, nice company knife. 950 01:00:37.090 --> 01:00:39.970 I, I just to touch on that, I do have to say 951 01:00:40.450 --> 01:00:44.250 production, because before long I, I 952 01:00:44.250 --> 01:00:47.970 do guarantee they will be production made. They will be made 953 01:00:47.970 --> 01:00:51.730 here in my, in my house, but they, they will be 954 01:00:51.730 --> 01:00:55.450 production made. But as, as far as the drops go, 955 01:00:55.450 --> 01:00:58.290 I do as many drops as I can handle. 956 01:00:59.650 --> 01:01:03.450 Sometimes I get stuck in ruts with doing orders, though, and I'm, I'm 957 01:01:03.450 --> 01:01:06.190 gonna have to cut that off at some point. But 958 01:01:07.230 --> 01:01:11.070 I have an order of 30 knives going to Lamnia 959 01:01:11.070 --> 01:01:14.830 next week, and that is where I would like 960 01:01:14.830 --> 01:01:17.950 to end up. And, and to me, 961 01:01:18.830 --> 01:01:22.590 that's where the production side is gonna lead. You have to 962 01:01:22.910 --> 01:01:26.710 kind of pick, pick that. But as far as my drops go, I 963 01:01:26.710 --> 01:01:30.190 do Send out newsletters. You subscribe to my newsletter 964 01:01:31.160 --> 01:01:34.960 on the website Brigitte Knifeco. Com. And on a 965 01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:38.680 normal basis, I like to do two drops a month every other week. 966 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:42.680 And my, my drops are anywhere from 20 to 40. 967 01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:47.880 And that's, that's where I'm able to keep it right now. 968 01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:51.960 Um, but I, I will increase, I guarantee you I will increase those 969 01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:54.760 numbers tenfold in the next couple of years. 970 01:01:55.080 --> 01:01:58.710 Outstanding. We all look forward to it. Jacob A. Sweet of 971 01:01:58.870 --> 01:02:02.030 Very Good Knife company. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been 972 01:02:02.030 --> 01:02:05.750 a real pleasure talking with you. I knew it would be just for meeting you, 973 01:02:05.910 --> 01:02:09.750 you know, for very briefly blade show. But man, I'm so glad we made this 974 01:02:09.750 --> 01:02:13.590 happen. Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me. Hey, knife makers. 975 01:02:13.670 --> 01:02:17.270 Tired of paying too much for your online store launch card? Gives you 976 01:02:17.270 --> 01:02:20.990 everything you need for just $27 a month. Sell as many 977 01:02:20.990 --> 01:02:24.470 blades as you want with our drag and drop store builder. No tech skills needed. 978 01:02:24.470 --> 01:02:28.230 You get all the good stuff. Secure checkout back in stock alerts and 979 01:02:28.230 --> 01:02:31.870 easy product reviews to show off your happy customers. Plus, your 980 01:02:31.870 --> 01:02:35.390 store looks great on phones and computers. Already using Shopify, 981 01:02:35.630 --> 01:02:39.309 knife makers are switching to launch card because it just works better. Try 982 01:02:39.309 --> 01:02:42.590 it free for 14 days at the knifejunkie.com 983 01:02:43.150 --> 01:02:46.950 launch. That's thenifejunkie.com launch. There 984 01:02:46.950 --> 01:02:50.430 he goes. Ladies and gentlemen, Jacob Sweet of very good knife company. 985 01:02:51.540 --> 01:02:55.260 Whatever you do, you have to check out one of his knives. You too will 986 01:02:55.260 --> 01:02:58.820 be hooked as I am. And now I have three, four 987 01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:02.740 other models. Definitely the Mustang and definitely 988 01:03:02.740 --> 01:03:06.420 the Eagle I need to get my hands on sometime in the future and 989 01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:09.700 I plan on doing that. You should plan to do something similar. 990 01:03:10.100 --> 01:03:13.700 All right. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying 991 01:03:13.700 --> 01:03:17.340 until next time, don't take dull for an answer. Thanks for 992 01:03:17.340 --> 01:03:20.940 listening to the knife Junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please 993 01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:24.620 rate and review@reviewthepodcast.com for show notes 994 01:03:24.620 --> 01:03:28.180 for today's episode, additional resources and to listen to past episodes, 995 01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:31.940 Visit our website thenifejunkie.com you can also watch 996 01:03:31.940 --> 01:03:34.900 our latest videos on YouTube at the knifejunkie.com 997 01:03:35.220 --> 01:03:35.940 YouTube.