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The planets buffet masters

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almost surely have a plan.

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There's clearly maybe something

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there beyond the realm of man.

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And until we've thoroughly tested

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every last close chested view,

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I find the more we think we know,

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the less we really do.

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Where would we be

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without THC?

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Because we know they're lying to us. Just

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don't know

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to what degree

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where would we be

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without THC.

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The higher side chat show

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Greg Carlwood and company.

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Like a cheeseburger in paradise from the sunshine

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state. I'm Greg Carlwood. And while we seem

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to be deep in psyops season and the

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political changing of the guard has all sorts

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of strange shenanigans going on, there is something

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more timeless and no better understood that seems

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to invade the lives of everyday people regardless

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of their age, location, or feelings about it.

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A thing that sometimes presents itself as strange

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creatures with magical powers or frail beings coming

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from foreign machines and it sometimes latches onto

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the psyche of those who have cracked open

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the door and is often hard to shake

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off.

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And the strangest aspect of these things we

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lump under the paranormal umbrella is the large

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overlap they seem to have with individuals and

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states of trauma, tragedy, hopelessness and even death.

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Sometimes these strange beings deliver messages from the

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dead or are even seen as companions for

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the dearly departed.

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And then we have ghost stories and legends

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that seem to spring up from nearly every

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city in town across this island Earth,

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where tragic and sudden violent death seem to

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disrupt whatever the life death transition normally is.

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And sometimes it seems like a person's energy

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is stuck or imprinted in the landscape.

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It's hard to know what causes what in

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these circumstances

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or know why some get this haunting treatment

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and others transition more smoothly,

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but those seemingly unable to transition don't usually

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have a story that starts with dying peacefully

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in one sleep.

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Well, we know damn well that one of

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the living legends of paranormal research is the

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prolific and powerful Joshua Joshua Cutchen. He's been

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here 5 times before talking about his books,

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A Trojan Feast, The Food and Drink Offerings

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of Aliens, Fairies and Sasquatch.

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The Brimstone Deceit, an in-depth examination of supernatural

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scents, otherworldly odors and monstrous miasmas.

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Where the Footprints End, High Strangeness in the

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Bigfoot Phenomenon volumes 1 and 2, as well

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as Ecology of Souls, a new mythology of

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death and the paranormal volumes 1 and 2.

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And today, he is joined by filmmaker Ryan

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Grolick of Creepy Kingdom to talk about a

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recently released true crime paranormal documentary they collaborated

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on titled Lady of the Lake about a

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murder victim, some odd things about her death,

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and the ghostly woman seen around the lake

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years after.

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I've watched it, I got questions, and I'm

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psyched to get into it with them. The

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murder mystery movie makers, Lake Crescent lost investigators,

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and tellers of forgotten tales, Josh and Ryan.

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Ryan and Josh, happy to have you here.

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How the hell are you?

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It's great to be here. The best intros

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in the business. I know you're probably tired

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of hearing that by now, but it's true.

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It's all part of the 9 to 5.

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Thanks for having us.

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Of course. So there is quite a bit

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I hope we can talk about, but, of

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course, we start with why we do the

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dance and that is this film, Lady of

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the Lake. I understand it all started with

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an email from Ryan as just a fan

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of Josh's work

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and really who isn't,

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but then it turned into this documentary

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project. And I'm curious with all the

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strange unsolved murders and paranormal stories out there,

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why this story of a murder victim from

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1937

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tossed in

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Lake Crescent in Washington state?

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Great question. So as I sit here today

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in sunny Orlando, Florida,

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I am

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remembering

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the not too distant past where I was

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a resident of the Pacific Northwest.

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This story

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sits colloquially in just sort of the whole

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area

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as one of those just anomalous cases.

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The condition of the body is really what

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was sort of almost fetishized in discussion.

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And so I was aware of the story

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and just kind of as I started to

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dig deeper,

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there was a compulsion to follow it largely

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because of COVID.

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And we were trying to make a feature

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film, a narrative horror film, and we couldn't

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get a crew that big together. And so

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we started to pick a dock. This one

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emerged, and it literally took 4 years out

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of my life to get done, but we

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had a great time doing it. I wanna

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compound that with the fact that I'm a

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Disney nerd. And on December 21, 1937,

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this victim was murdered. However, also on December

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21, 1937, in a great synchronistic adventure, Walt

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Disney himself released Snow White and the Seven

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Doors at the Carthage Circle in San Francisco.

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And so when I saw that those two

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things collided, it was just more rocket fuel

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and I kept going.

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And it was the winter solstice, I understand.

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You understand correctly.

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Man, so, Josh, how did you get involved

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in this? Because when I heard about this,

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when you told me this was happening, I

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was like, oh, great. I'm gonna watch a

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documentary about Josh investigating

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this mystery, and that is not what I

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got.

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How are you involved?

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No. It's that face for radio thing again.

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Right?

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No. I started up a correspondence with Ryan

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sometime probably around pandemic, around that sort of

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time.

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You know, I always try to be really

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diligent about answering emails and things like that.

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So I responded, and then it turned into

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phone correspondence, and then it evolved into what

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became a friendship. So Ryan and I would

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catch up. I think it was weekly for

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a while.

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And then,

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thankfully,

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I well, I was going through a little

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bit in 2020 as we all were.

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I'm not shy about it. I I was

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heading towards my August check-in to rehab for

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alcoholism.

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Coming up on 5 years now, we're all

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good. Heck yeah. Golf clap. But, you know,

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alcoholics aren't not necessarily the best people about

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getting back to correspondence. So between the, the

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collapse of my worldview and the collapse of

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my world, I sort of ended up ghosting

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you, Ryan, a couple of times, I'm afraid

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to say. No pun intended. Yeah. Right? But

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he was very tenacious, and we reconnected a

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couple of months

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later, and we continued to sort of bounce

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ideas off of each other. And it has

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emerged as this wonderful sort of collaborative friendship,

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and I'm really

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excited to see what has come of that,

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not only with Lady of the Lake, but

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with some of the things we have planned

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in the future. And just what I think

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is going to be a trend, hopefully,

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for paranormal media as we move forward,

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which is the continuous

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blending and blurring of distinctions between separate domains.

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And I think that's really what we need

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a lot more of is looking at the

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similarities between these

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parts of the phenomenon that we've often assumed

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have been discrete and separate and really showing

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how they all seem to have some sort

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of underlying connective tissue. Yeah, man. Yes. That's

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why I've always gravitated to you because I

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do like that comparative stuff. I like the

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blurring of the lines. I'm kind of over

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doing interviews with boomers who talk about the

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chain of custody of the meta materials from

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Wright Patterson to here to there. It's like,

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okay. Let's talk about something, like, weirder.

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And when you open the door to this

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kind of stuff as a filmmaker,

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I'm looking at it. And the reason that

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I was so persistent

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in touching this with Josh, I don't know

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if I've really said this to you, but

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is that

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his work sits in that space where Ville

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sits, where Kiel sits, where

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these concepts,

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your head has to make it through the

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door at the end of this interview. But

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I think it's in that space, right, where

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we're not naming it, we're just exploring it.

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And so as I was going through this

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with our subject, Amanda Paulson,

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alongside me and really digging deep into this,

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we were heading into territory where there were

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not easy definitions. This was a Fortean affair.

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And in terms of modern Fortiana

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in America,

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Josh is an easy person to go to

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and say, Hey, I have a nerdy question.

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As a professional,

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until I moved to Florida, I was the

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CEO of a company. I rarely spoke about

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this kind of stuff ever.

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And so I was fluent with a lot

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of the different researchers, and it was an

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obvious

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choice for me to go to him and

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engage him. And so over time, he's being

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a little bit humble, but over time, he's

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been a real cornerstone in my thinking about

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how to approach some of this stuff and

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how to look at this domain of the

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larger phenomenon, like a meta phenomenon.

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And I think that for Lady of the

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Lake, in particular, as we'll get into it,

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you can see that we were talking about

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things like brownies that live out on the

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Olympic Peninsula and their relationship to potential satanic

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murders,

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and they're being seen at the Lady of

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the Lake. And it got strange real fast,

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so he was an ally there for sure.

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Love it. Love it. So, yeah, let's give

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people

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the structure,

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the bullet points of what this story is

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because it is a specific story. Like I

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mentioned, this woman died in 1937

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on the winter solstice on the release of

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Snow White and the 7 dwarves.

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Not exactly relevant or maybe it's all connected.

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Who knows? But tell us the basic story

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of Haley so that people have a sense

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of what we're talking about.

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Yeah. So Haley Illingworth was born in Kentucky

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and migrated all the way across this great

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big country. Back in that day, it was

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not an insignificant feat to pretty much the

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edge of the world. Port Angeles is the

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northwestern

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most point of the United States. You can

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stand in the town and look across and

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Canada is visible.

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And so she was out kind of in

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the middle of nowhere

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and ended up in a position where she

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just took this really long journey, and it

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ended there for her. But the reason we

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know about her

269
00:10:11,995 --> 00:10:12,654
is because

270
00:10:13,034 --> 00:10:15,809
in July of 1940, 2 fishermen row up

271
00:10:15,809 --> 00:10:18,370
onto what they thought was, you know, some

272
00:10:18,370 --> 00:10:19,269
sort of detritus.

273
00:10:19,809 --> 00:10:21,970
In actuality, it was a hand sticking up

274
00:10:21,970 --> 00:10:24,049
out of the water vertically, which in and

275
00:10:24,049 --> 00:10:25,889
of itself is a tremendous anomaly and also

276
00:10:25,889 --> 00:10:27,649
harkens us back to the Arthurian legend of

277
00:10:27,649 --> 00:10:28,769
the lady of the lake where the hand

278
00:10:28,769 --> 00:10:30,345
is actually sticking up out of the water.

279
00:10:30,345 --> 00:10:32,365
Okay, that's actually how she was discovered.

280
00:10:33,064 --> 00:10:35,144
And there were pieces of the, flesh around

281
00:10:35,144 --> 00:10:37,865
her fingertip that were exposed. So her body

282
00:10:37,865 --> 00:10:39,704
was found this way, but we didn't know

283
00:10:39,704 --> 00:10:41,464
who this person was. When we pulled her

284
00:10:41,464 --> 00:10:43,820
out of the water, her body had saponified,

285
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,360
and this is a chemical reaction that is

286
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,579
also known as adiposere,

287
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,019
corpse wax.

288
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,279
What happens is under certain conditions, the body

289
00:10:52,279 --> 00:10:54,834
basically turns into a soap like substance. In

290
00:10:54,834 --> 00:10:56,914
a lot of places like down south in

291
00:10:56,914 --> 00:10:58,995
the US and France and some other humid

292
00:10:58,995 --> 00:11:00,754
places in the in the southern world, you'll

293
00:11:00,754 --> 00:11:02,834
see that graves are above the ground and

294
00:11:02,834 --> 00:11:04,434
that the reason for that is the water

295
00:11:04,434 --> 00:11:06,595
table. And so while in some places this

296
00:11:06,595 --> 00:11:08,834
is an anomalous, in Seattle area in the

297
00:11:08,834 --> 00:11:10,529
northwest, it was exceptionally anomalous.

298
00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:13,509
So when they discovered this body

299
00:11:13,889 --> 00:11:15,889
in Lake Crescent, which is a lake that

300
00:11:15,889 --> 00:11:18,050
is famous for literally never giving up its

301
00:11:18,050 --> 00:11:20,050
dead, and we can talk about the lake

302
00:11:20,050 --> 00:11:22,210
in more detail later, when they found this

303
00:11:22,210 --> 00:11:23,830
body, it was an instant mystery.

304
00:11:24,315 --> 00:11:27,035
The mystery was very well publicized. They ended

305
00:11:27,035 --> 00:11:29,595
up finding out who the victim was through

306
00:11:29,595 --> 00:11:30,495
some circumstance,

307
00:11:30,955 --> 00:11:32,715
but we know about her because of the

308
00:11:32,715 --> 00:11:35,035
conditions of her body. That's where this all

309
00:11:35,035 --> 00:11:37,274
started was in the strange anomaly of that

310
00:11:37,274 --> 00:11:39,860
and I think amplified by the colloquial sort

311
00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:41,620
of the lake never gives up its dead.

312
00:11:41,620 --> 00:11:44,100
It's a bottomless lake. And so from a

313
00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:47,059
mythology standpoint, she kinda springs out into the

314
00:11:47,059 --> 00:11:47,559
public.

315
00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:48,600
Mhmm.

316
00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:50,519
I read it as the second

317
00:11:50,834 --> 00:11:54,115
deepest lake in Washington state. I'm sure there

318
00:11:54,115 --> 00:11:56,595
are parts of it where it goes deeper

319
00:11:56,595 --> 00:11:58,134
than even is measured.

320
00:11:58,595 --> 00:11:59,735
I read that

321
00:12:00,274 --> 00:12:03,334
83 people, I think, have been reported missing

322
00:12:03,475 --> 00:12:05,475
around the lake, thought to have died in

323
00:12:05,475 --> 00:12:08,480
the lake most likely, but Haley is one

324
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,519
of 3 that have ever been recovered or

325
00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:13,279
known to be recovered. So if they're unrecovered,

326
00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:14,480
I mean, you don't really know if they

327
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,240
died in the lake or not. But we

328
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,159
assume a lot of people have and very

329
00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:19,379
few are recovered.

330
00:12:19,904 --> 00:12:20,404
And,

331
00:12:21,184 --> 00:12:23,764
yeah, there's obviously a striking visual

332
00:12:24,384 --> 00:12:26,164
of a deep, deep lake,

333
00:12:26,544 --> 00:12:28,084
a body that's been underwater

334
00:12:28,464 --> 00:12:30,784
for 3 years, and then a hand is

335
00:12:30,784 --> 00:12:33,345
sticking out above the surface of the water,

336
00:12:33,345 --> 00:12:35,610
and that is what people see. And then

337
00:12:35,610 --> 00:12:37,809
the body is turned to a soap like

338
00:12:37,809 --> 00:12:38,309
substance.

339
00:12:39,330 --> 00:12:40,230
These qualities,

340
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:42,610
how much of this do you think is

341
00:12:42,610 --> 00:12:44,929
related? Because Lady of the Lake, we're talking

342
00:12:44,929 --> 00:12:47,490
about basically a ghost story. There's stories in

343
00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:49,649
the area where people see a woman in

344
00:12:49,649 --> 00:12:52,965
white crying, walking around, and so there's a

345
00:12:52,965 --> 00:12:55,165
mythology that builds up. I mentioned in the

346
00:12:55,165 --> 00:12:58,205
intro, all across the country, there's little towns

347
00:12:58,205 --> 00:13:00,545
where it's like, go to these railroad tracks,

348
00:13:01,165 --> 00:13:03,325
say this name, and then you'll see the

349
00:13:03,325 --> 00:13:03,825
thing.

350
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:06,309
This comes up all the time. So this

351
00:13:06,309 --> 00:13:08,070
is one of those kind of legends. There's

352
00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:08,570
this

353
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:11,370
ghostly figure people see in the area.

354
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:13,929
The assumption is it's pegged to

355
00:13:14,549 --> 00:13:15,850
Haley who went missing.

356
00:13:16,475 --> 00:13:19,215
Of these qualities, the arm sticking out, the

357
00:13:19,274 --> 00:13:19,774
soapification

358
00:13:20,235 --> 00:13:21,134
of the body,

359
00:13:22,315 --> 00:13:24,235
how related do you think some of these

360
00:13:24,235 --> 00:13:26,975
physical things are to the nonphysical

361
00:13:27,435 --> 00:13:29,134
weirdness of the story itself?

362
00:13:29,909 --> 00:13:31,509
Well, this is something that I've taken a

363
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:33,830
greater and deeper interest in lately is the

364
00:13:33,830 --> 00:13:36,309
fact that we should be looking more closely

365
00:13:36,309 --> 00:13:38,629
at the story part of ghost story than

366
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:39,929
we do at the ghost part.

367
00:13:40,549 --> 00:13:42,824
As Ryan sort of alluded to, there are

368
00:13:42,824 --> 00:13:45,704
a lot of archetypal fingerprints all over this

369
00:13:45,704 --> 00:13:46,524
whole narrative.

370
00:13:47,144 --> 00:13:48,904
Not only do you have the sort of

371
00:13:48,904 --> 00:13:50,904
woman in white thrusting her hand above the

372
00:13:50,904 --> 00:13:53,225
waves and an echo of the Arthurian lady

373
00:13:53,225 --> 00:13:54,204
of the lake, but

374
00:13:54,929 --> 00:13:57,090
some of the things that the story touches

375
00:13:57,090 --> 00:13:59,250
on are a little bit less publicized. The

376
00:13:59,250 --> 00:14:02,070
fact that the lake in question is

377
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:06,230
supposedly bottomless and that it has a reputation

378
00:14:06,290 --> 00:14:07,809
for never giving up its dead, these are

379
00:14:07,809 --> 00:14:08,929
things that we see in a lot of

380
00:14:08,929 --> 00:14:10,035
lakes that are associated

381
00:14:10,975 --> 00:14:12,035
with certain mythological

382
00:14:12,495 --> 00:14:14,754
characters and creatures throughout the world.

383
00:14:15,535 --> 00:14:16,995
Specifically, the bottomlessness

384
00:14:17,375 --> 00:14:19,695
nature and the tendency to not yield its

385
00:14:19,695 --> 00:14:20,195
dead

386
00:14:20,575 --> 00:14:22,649
speaks directly to something that was

387
00:14:23,050 --> 00:14:24,970
mentioned as some of the criteria for lake

388
00:14:24,970 --> 00:14:26,889
monsters in one of my favorite lake monster

389
00:14:26,889 --> 00:14:30,090
books, Michel Mercier's Lake Monster Traditions. It's like

390
00:14:30,090 --> 00:14:32,330
Passport to Nagonia for lake monsters. It's an

391
00:14:32,330 --> 00:14:33,870
excellent book. But

392
00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:35,850
just the fact that you have these sort

393
00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:38,615
of archetypal themes popping up time and time

394
00:14:38,615 --> 00:14:41,035
again, I think doesn't really suggest

395
00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:44,695
a chicken or egg scenario or one or

396
00:14:44,695 --> 00:14:46,535
the other scenario, but really a both and

397
00:14:46,535 --> 00:14:49,014
sort of scenario. And that where the story

398
00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:51,095
of Halle's death and the lady of the

399
00:14:51,095 --> 00:14:51,595
lake

400
00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:54,190
belief that really has saturated the community, we

401
00:14:54,190 --> 00:14:55,309
can talk about that in a little bit

402
00:14:55,309 --> 00:14:55,809
too.

403
00:14:56,269 --> 00:14:59,070
Where those things meet is really what's at

404
00:14:59,070 --> 00:15:02,129
question here. And what I think is what

405
00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:04,509
really sets aside this documentary from a lot

406
00:15:04,509 --> 00:15:06,509
of other paranormal media out there, it truly

407
00:15:06,509 --> 00:15:09,014
becomes something that is less than just, you

408
00:15:09,014 --> 00:15:11,174
know, oh, it's a paranormal mystery with true

409
00:15:11,174 --> 00:15:12,934
crime elements. Like, yeah, that's in there, but

410
00:15:12,934 --> 00:15:15,434
it really does end up being a Fortean

411
00:15:15,575 --> 00:15:18,214
story because you do end up with these

412
00:15:18,214 --> 00:15:21,174
intersections of larger than life themes that aren't

413
00:15:21,174 --> 00:15:23,414
necessarily based on just the facts. Yes. The

414
00:15:23,414 --> 00:15:25,000
facts play into it, but there's also the

415
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,120
bigger story that we ourselves weave and have

416
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:28,620
woven

417
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:29,580
over

418
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:30,860
our lifetimes,

419
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,179
over decades, centuries, and millennia.

420
00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:35,654
Mhmm. Well, I like that you said we

421
00:15:35,735 --> 00:15:38,295
should emphasize the story part because that is

422
00:15:38,295 --> 00:15:40,134
what I came away with and, you know,

423
00:15:40,134 --> 00:15:42,375
thinking about preparing to talk about this, like,

424
00:15:42,375 --> 00:15:43,894
how can I make this a little different?

425
00:15:43,894 --> 00:15:45,815
I mean, that is kinda what I thought

426
00:15:45,815 --> 00:15:47,654
about. The Lady of the Lake is an

427
00:15:47,654 --> 00:15:48,154
archetype,

428
00:15:48,909 --> 00:15:50,850
and so you start to think, man.

429
00:15:51,470 --> 00:15:52,450
So what causes

430
00:15:53,070 --> 00:15:55,789
the ghost phenomenon? It doesn't seem like it's

431
00:15:55,789 --> 00:15:57,950
the physical body because that was found in

432
00:15:57,950 --> 00:15:58,450
1940,

433
00:15:58,830 --> 00:16:01,470
yet the imprint in the area, the stories

434
00:16:01,470 --> 00:16:02,929
of some kind of ghost

435
00:16:03,309 --> 00:16:03,809
are

436
00:16:04,214 --> 00:16:04,714
still

437
00:16:05,174 --> 00:16:06,934
there. It would be interesting to know if

438
00:16:06,934 --> 00:16:08,475
those stories go away

439
00:16:08,934 --> 00:16:10,634
when more people see the documentary

440
00:16:11,014 --> 00:16:13,274
because the story is now told.

441
00:16:13,654 --> 00:16:16,134
Like, that would be maybe a mechanism because

442
00:16:16,134 --> 00:16:18,954
we've talked many times about trauma being associated

443
00:16:19,254 --> 00:16:23,490
with Fortian Paranormal Stuff. Well, maybe trauma isn't

444
00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:25,509
exactly the right word. Maybe it's like

445
00:16:26,049 --> 00:16:26,549
unresolved

446
00:16:27,009 --> 00:16:30,070
trauma would be maybe a more specific term

447
00:16:30,129 --> 00:16:33,250
that once something is resolved, maybe the energy

448
00:16:33,250 --> 00:16:35,170
is released. What do you think about something

449
00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:35,830
like that?

450
00:16:36,345 --> 00:16:37,945
Or the question that, you know, really comes

451
00:16:37,945 --> 00:16:39,884
to mind for me is that if Halley

452
00:16:40,584 --> 00:16:41,325
is deposited

453
00:16:42,024 --> 00:16:43,884
and later recovered from

454
00:16:44,424 --> 00:16:47,084
an area that's less strange or from

455
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,539
a body of water that has less folklore

456
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,899
attached to it in general,

457
00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:53,799
does this story take on the life of

458
00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:55,639
its own like it has in Port Angeles?

459
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:57,000
Like, I think that's part of the question

460
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,539
too. It's almost like a catalyst

461
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,279
for the mythopoetic side to emerge into life.

462
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:04,384
And to that extent, I think trauma itself

463
00:17:04,445 --> 00:17:06,065
can serve that similar role.

464
00:17:06,445 --> 00:17:06,945
And

465
00:17:07,484 --> 00:17:10,305
that's what I think that Ryan as director

466
00:17:10,365 --> 00:17:12,045
did an excellent job of showing, and I'll

467
00:17:12,045 --> 00:17:13,325
I'll let him speak to that here in

468
00:17:13,325 --> 00:17:16,125
a moment. But the fact that Halle was

469
00:17:16,125 --> 00:17:16,705
a person

470
00:17:17,325 --> 00:17:18,065
and had

471
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:19,609
dreams and aspirations.

472
00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:20,410
And

473
00:17:20,950 --> 00:17:22,950
it's so easy to sort of slip into

474
00:17:22,950 --> 00:17:23,769
this trap

475
00:17:24,070 --> 00:17:25,369
of using

476
00:17:25,830 --> 00:17:28,390
victims as plot points or, you know, sort

477
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:31,029
of deifying the killers when you're dealing with

478
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:33,545
true crime. And I think Ryan's handling of

479
00:17:33,545 --> 00:17:35,865
the subject matter really sidestep both those issues

480
00:17:35,865 --> 00:17:37,025
in a good way. And to the contrary,

481
00:17:37,025 --> 00:17:38,585
it was actually a remedy for a lot

482
00:17:38,585 --> 00:17:39,785
of what we see. I don't know if,

483
00:17:39,785 --> 00:17:41,865
Ryan, you wanna speak to the role that

484
00:17:41,865 --> 00:17:43,964
trauma plays in this particular narrative.

485
00:17:44,339 --> 00:17:46,500
Sure. Everything you guys are saying is in

486
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:48,179
line with what I found, and it's more

487
00:17:48,179 --> 00:17:50,119
of a yes and situation because

488
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:52,519
what I found was that

489
00:17:52,980 --> 00:17:53,799
the community

490
00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:56,660
was struggling with the trauma. This is a

491
00:17:56,660 --> 00:17:58,679
place where, at this point in time,

492
00:17:59,035 --> 00:18:01,295
the population was really small, they were isolated,

493
00:18:01,434 --> 00:18:03,115
they weren't and still are not a big

494
00:18:03,115 --> 00:18:05,134
city, they did not have big city infrastructure.

495
00:18:05,674 --> 00:18:08,174
This murder really shook the town. And

496
00:18:09,355 --> 00:18:11,454
because of the implications of the trial

497
00:18:11,779 --> 00:18:13,380
once it started to happen and, like, all

498
00:18:13,380 --> 00:18:15,139
of the dynamics that were involved with it,

499
00:18:15,139 --> 00:18:17,480
it was very close to home. And so

500
00:18:18,019 --> 00:18:20,759
prior to the Internet, prior to the collapse

501
00:18:20,819 --> 00:18:23,960
of peer to peer communication in real space,

502
00:18:24,384 --> 00:18:26,384
we would actually engage in these sort of

503
00:18:26,384 --> 00:18:29,184
dialogues meaningfully as small communities. And I think

504
00:18:29,184 --> 00:18:31,025
one of the ways that we end up

505
00:18:31,025 --> 00:18:32,404
doing that is through story.

506
00:18:32,785 --> 00:18:35,044
And so at the end of the cycle,

507
00:18:35,105 --> 00:18:36,325
here where we are,

508
00:18:36,625 --> 00:18:39,150
story is now what Allie has become. Okay?

509
00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:41,570
She is a real person. She was alive.

510
00:18:41,869 --> 00:18:43,710
She was no longer with us. And I

511
00:18:43,710 --> 00:18:44,990
think you have to treat that with the

512
00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:47,390
respect that it deserves. I don't see it

513
00:18:47,390 --> 00:18:49,549
as a feat to humanize a person in

514
00:18:49,549 --> 00:18:51,150
these stories. I think it's a shame that

515
00:18:51,150 --> 00:18:52,130
they're not. Generally,

516
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:54,174
I would assume it should be par for

517
00:18:54,174 --> 00:18:56,255
the course, not to go too golf on

518
00:18:56,255 --> 00:18:58,434
it, but that should be where it's at.

519
00:18:58,734 --> 00:19:01,295
So now she is a story to most

520
00:19:01,295 --> 00:19:01,795
people.

521
00:19:02,255 --> 00:19:04,174
And I think that the story that we're

522
00:19:04,174 --> 00:19:06,494
telling about Hallie and about a lot of

523
00:19:06,494 --> 00:19:08,835
these ladies of the lake or these different

524
00:19:08,894 --> 00:19:09,394
haunted

525
00:19:09,779 --> 00:19:10,279
locations

526
00:19:10,740 --> 00:19:12,420
is very similar to what you would get

527
00:19:12,420 --> 00:19:13,619
out of a thrill ride when you go

528
00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:15,619
to a theme park. You get on, you

529
00:19:15,619 --> 00:19:17,940
hop in, you say, Do a trick, ghost.

530
00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:20,420
And the phenomenon responds. And then you go

531
00:19:20,420 --> 00:19:22,420
home. And in the haunted Words of the

532
00:19:22,420 --> 00:19:23,940
Haunted Mansion, a ghost may follow you home

533
00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:26,015
and you don't even know it. You're just

534
00:19:26,015 --> 00:19:28,414
on this place where you're completely unaware of

535
00:19:28,414 --> 00:19:31,394
what you've escalated into. And I think that

536
00:19:31,534 --> 00:19:34,275
my intention with this was to, yes, humanize

537
00:19:34,575 --> 00:19:36,674
Halle Illingworth, but to also,

538
00:19:37,375 --> 00:19:37,875
hopefully,

539
00:19:38,429 --> 00:19:41,329
provide her with a vehicle to transcend victimhood.

540
00:19:41,789 --> 00:19:44,190
And by taking this story and shaping it

541
00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:45,869
the way we did, I hope that the

542
00:19:45,869 --> 00:19:48,529
sightings don't stop. I hope that this egregore

543
00:19:48,589 --> 00:19:50,829
gets bigger and bigger and that Halle is

544
00:19:50,829 --> 00:19:53,234
remembered as the lady of the lake and

545
00:19:53,234 --> 00:19:55,154
has a power that was taken away from

546
00:19:55,154 --> 00:19:57,414
her in life, restored to her in death.

547
00:19:57,875 --> 00:20:01,474
Well, that's an interesting take. Ambitious hopes. I

548
00:20:01,474 --> 00:20:03,894
know that you have talked to Mark Stavish

549
00:20:04,275 --> 00:20:04,775
in

550
00:20:05,339 --> 00:20:06,480
some bonus footage,

551
00:20:07,179 --> 00:20:09,179
and I'm assuming that's kind of where the

552
00:20:09,179 --> 00:20:09,679
egregore

553
00:20:10,059 --> 00:20:11,440
comment comes from.

554
00:20:11,740 --> 00:20:14,240
But what do you think about this relationship

555
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:14,960
between

556
00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:16,480
an egregore

557
00:20:16,779 --> 00:20:17,679
and an archetype?

558
00:20:18,380 --> 00:20:19,839
Just this idea that

559
00:20:20,535 --> 00:20:21,755
a seemingly random

560
00:20:22,134 --> 00:20:22,634
situation,

561
00:20:23,095 --> 00:20:25,914
a murder, it kind of falls into

562
00:20:26,535 --> 00:20:27,674
being archetypal.

563
00:20:28,134 --> 00:20:30,375
You know, the killer didn't try to fulfill

564
00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:31,115
some archetype,

565
00:20:31,815 --> 00:20:34,019
so there's, like, a weirdness there. But, like,

566
00:20:34,339 --> 00:20:36,359
sometimes a murder does fall into

567
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:38,900
that role. And, like, what is the difference

568
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:42,019
between an egregore and an archetype? And what

569
00:20:42,019 --> 00:20:43,700
is it that people are seeing? Are they

570
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,580
seeing an egregore? Are they seeing an archetype?

571
00:20:46,580 --> 00:20:48,119
Is there even much of a difference?

572
00:20:48,884 --> 00:20:51,205
I have to jump in. John Tenney says

573
00:20:51,205 --> 00:20:52,105
it very well.

574
00:20:52,724 --> 00:20:54,805
The aliens land on the White House lawn,

575
00:20:54,805 --> 00:20:56,884
and they get out. And the Secret Service

576
00:20:56,884 --> 00:20:58,805
is standing there with their guns pointed. And

577
00:20:58,805 --> 00:21:00,025
the aliens say,

578
00:21:00,325 --> 00:21:02,345
what do you guys know about these ghosts?

579
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,539
The question, I think, is more so,

580
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,859
what are we dealing with

581
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,059
within ourselves

582
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,299
when we experience these phenomena?

583
00:21:12,919 --> 00:21:15,880
And so in order to classify this and

584
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,444
to try to give it a quantified reality

585
00:21:18,444 --> 00:21:19,964
of, like, being an archetype or being an

586
00:21:19,964 --> 00:21:21,904
egregore and what's the difference,

587
00:21:22,605 --> 00:21:24,365
I think you could get into semantics pretty

588
00:21:24,365 --> 00:21:27,005
quick, like you were suggesting. But the reality

589
00:21:27,005 --> 00:21:29,325
is that when you look at the work

590
00:21:29,325 --> 00:21:31,589
on Stavish and guys like that that are

591
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:33,669
talking about this stuff, I think it's really

592
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:35,029
great because it helps us to shape our

593
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:37,109
minds around the fact that reality has a

594
00:21:37,109 --> 00:21:40,230
co creative nature, and that for me, the

595
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:43,210
egregore itself is a clinical definition

596
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:45,369
of feeding the archetype.

597
00:21:45,894 --> 00:21:48,214
Right? It becomes this group thought form where

598
00:21:48,214 --> 00:21:49,835
we're feeding an archetype.

599
00:21:50,134 --> 00:21:52,214
And that's really sort of what is happening,

600
00:21:52,214 --> 00:21:53,815
in my opinion, with a lot of these

601
00:21:53,815 --> 00:21:54,315
stories.

602
00:21:55,174 --> 00:21:56,855
Yeah. It's a bit like that definition of

603
00:21:56,855 --> 00:21:58,775
pornography. Right? You know it when you see

604
00:21:58,775 --> 00:21:59,914
it? Don't I ever?

605
00:22:00,295 --> 00:22:02,399
I think there's a quote that Jung has

606
00:22:02,399 --> 00:22:03,619
that is about

607
00:22:04,159 --> 00:22:07,679
how archetypes are like deep long ago cut

608
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:08,179
riverbeds.

609
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:10,640
And they may sit dry for a while,

610
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,799
but when certain conditions are met, that's the

611
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,404
course which the water chooses. And, you know,

612
00:22:15,404 --> 00:22:16,305
to that extent,

613
00:22:16,845 --> 00:22:19,484
I think that there are naturally forming riverbeds

614
00:22:19,484 --> 00:22:21,484
and there are some man made riverbeds too.

615
00:22:21,484 --> 00:22:23,345
And I think that with enough time and

616
00:22:24,125 --> 00:22:24,625
erosion,

617
00:22:25,085 --> 00:22:26,845
we can sort of form our own riverbeds.

618
00:22:26,845 --> 00:22:28,605
Although, I would suggest that they take quite

619
00:22:28,605 --> 00:22:30,445
a bit more time than these ones that

620
00:22:30,445 --> 00:22:31,920
were cut long ago.

621
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:34,140
So I think that that might be sort

622
00:22:34,140 --> 00:22:37,259
of an open handed way to address that

623
00:22:37,259 --> 00:22:37,759
distinction.

624
00:22:39,019 --> 00:22:39,519
And

625
00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:43,259
I think that there are certain things, certain

626
00:22:43,259 --> 00:22:44,640
events, certain personalities

627
00:22:44,940 --> 00:22:47,065
that choose the path of least resistance

628
00:22:47,765 --> 00:22:48,265
from

629
00:22:49,285 --> 00:22:51,525
a underlying source code of the universe kind

630
00:22:51,525 --> 00:22:54,644
of perspective and fall into these pathways and

631
00:22:54,644 --> 00:22:56,265
these well worn waterways.

632
00:22:57,460 --> 00:22:58,900
And I think that when you see that

633
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:01,080
happening, that is really sort of the activation

634
00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:02,440
of an archetype.

635
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:04,500
And then when you see something that seems

636
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:07,460
to be the product of collective belief, given

637
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:09,140
enough time, that would fall a little bit

638
00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:11,460
more into the egregore category. Although the question

639
00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:11,960
is,

640
00:23:12,484 --> 00:23:15,765
are egregore's vehicles for forces beyond ourselves or

641
00:23:15,765 --> 00:23:17,924
are they purely the force of human will

642
00:23:17,924 --> 00:23:19,305
and the force of human belief?

643
00:23:19,765 --> 00:23:22,505
I'll have to remain ambivalent on that because

644
00:23:23,365 --> 00:23:25,465
that's a question with the sort of durable,

645
00:23:25,845 --> 00:23:26,664
long lasting

646
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,179
implications that you have to sit with.

647
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:31,400
It's the same kind of question that is,

648
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,000
you know, are the spirits real, or are

649
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,359
they all in your head? You know, it's

650
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,039
the same kind of question. Yeah. I guess

651
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:37,559
my thought is, like, if there is a

652
00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:39,259
life cycle to these things,

653
00:23:40,535 --> 00:23:41,194
an egregore

654
00:23:41,494 --> 00:23:44,234
seems like a young archetype or an archetype

655
00:23:44,375 --> 00:23:46,454
seems like an older egregore. But I like

656
00:23:46,454 --> 00:23:48,775
the whole thing about man made riverbeds because

657
00:23:48,775 --> 00:23:50,454
I I tend to use the term gravity.

658
00:23:50,454 --> 00:23:52,694
There's, like, a gravity that kinda pulls things

659
00:23:52,694 --> 00:23:55,359
in to an archetype. If it's close enough,

660
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,279
like, maybe it comes 80% of the way,

661
00:23:57,279 --> 00:23:59,119
and then something else pulls it all the

662
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,539
way into being a fulfillment of the archetype.

663
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:02,980
And,

664
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,640
yeah, it probably takes more time to try

665
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,140
to

666
00:24:07,714 --> 00:24:09,494
game that or try to create

667
00:24:09,795 --> 00:24:12,695
an artificial riverbed, to use the same analogy.

668
00:24:13,154 --> 00:24:15,335
But, man, that's kind of what I think

669
00:24:15,795 --> 00:24:18,855
the little green men, sci fi, alien thing

670
00:24:18,914 --> 00:24:20,595
has been. I never heard it put in

671
00:24:20,595 --> 00:24:21,869
those terms really, but

672
00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:25,390
we always talk about, well, the presentation is

673
00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:27,470
what you expect to see. Things like that,

674
00:24:27,470 --> 00:24:29,869
obviously, are talked about all the time. But

675
00:24:29,869 --> 00:24:31,089
it seems like maybe

676
00:24:31,549 --> 00:24:32,130
the military

677
00:24:33,309 --> 00:24:34,924
set out on an operation

678
00:24:35,304 --> 00:24:37,144
to be like, I wonder if we can

679
00:24:37,144 --> 00:24:39,884
use Hollywood and use our own whistleblowers

680
00:24:40,184 --> 00:24:43,625
to infiltrate the conference scene and describe things

681
00:24:43,625 --> 00:24:45,944
in a certain way, and then just as

682
00:24:45,944 --> 00:24:46,684
an experiment,

683
00:24:47,419 --> 00:24:49,980
see what happens and see if people start

684
00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:52,140
seeing this. It seems like that is a

685
00:24:52,140 --> 00:24:53,919
great way to contextualize

686
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:55,900
what I think a lot of that eighties

687
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:59,419
nineties UFO stuff was is the attempt to

688
00:24:59,419 --> 00:24:59,919
create

689
00:25:01,154 --> 00:25:03,095
Edgar Gore archetype riverbed.

690
00:25:04,034 --> 00:25:06,355
I think that that's extremely prescient. I mean,

691
00:25:06,355 --> 00:25:08,274
I was asked recently at a conference about,

692
00:25:08,274 --> 00:25:09,875
you know, do you think the flying saucer

693
00:25:09,875 --> 00:25:11,234
is an archetype? And I'm like, well, it's

694
00:25:11,234 --> 00:25:12,914
on its way to becoming an archetype. I

695
00:25:12,914 --> 00:25:14,579
don't know if something with sort of that

696
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:16,279
relatively short

697
00:25:17,140 --> 00:25:19,059
attention and focus as we know the modern

698
00:25:19,059 --> 00:25:21,059
UFO to be can really carve that riverbed,

699
00:25:21,059 --> 00:25:21,559
but

700
00:25:22,099 --> 00:25:24,659
transportation to the other world, the mandala, like,

701
00:25:24,659 --> 00:25:26,500
these things are archetypes. So it's almost as

702
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:28,500
if if we're going to continue using this

703
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:29,480
riverbed analogy,

704
00:25:30,205 --> 00:25:32,045
you know, a tributary is starting to wear

705
00:25:32,045 --> 00:25:33,805
away in the direction of the flying saucer

706
00:25:33,805 --> 00:25:35,585
and it'll be sort of an offshoot of

707
00:25:35,884 --> 00:25:39,005
that main waterway. And this is exactly what

708
00:25:39,005 --> 00:25:40,684
you're talking about, sort of the manipulation of

709
00:25:40,684 --> 00:25:42,605
the narrative or the mediation, as my friend,

710
00:25:42,605 --> 00:25:44,890
David Metcalfe would say, something that I've been

711
00:25:44,890 --> 00:25:46,890
giving a lot more attention to lately. Not

712
00:25:46,890 --> 00:25:48,650
to pivot us off of Lady of the

713
00:25:48,650 --> 00:25:50,329
Lake because I wanna bring us back around,

714
00:25:50,329 --> 00:25:52,570
but I'm working on a book that should

715
00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:54,170
be coming out this year called 4th Wall

716
00:25:54,170 --> 00:25:56,410
Phantoms. And among the many things that it

717
00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:59,264
deals with, in addition to fictions that become

718
00:25:59,264 --> 00:25:59,764
true

719
00:26:00,224 --> 00:26:02,625
are the possibility that we are the last

720
00:26:02,625 --> 00:26:04,865
people to really realize this, that you can

721
00:26:04,865 --> 00:26:06,244
sort of reinforce

722
00:26:07,345 --> 00:26:09,184
beliefs long enough that they sort of end

723
00:26:09,184 --> 00:26:11,664
up reflecting what your beliefs are. There's a

724
00:26:11,664 --> 00:26:13,869
passage that can't recall which book it was

725
00:26:13,869 --> 00:26:15,950
from. I believe it was transformation, but I

726
00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:16,769
might be mistaken.

727
00:26:17,470 --> 00:26:19,309
1 of Whitley Strieber's books, he mentions a

728
00:26:19,309 --> 00:26:21,570
memo from Wright Patterson that says that

729
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:24,029
basically the alien invasion can be held at

730
00:26:24,029 --> 00:26:25,809
bay through orchestrated belief.

731
00:26:26,524 --> 00:26:28,684
And the idea that simply by denying them

732
00:26:28,684 --> 00:26:30,365
the power to enter our reality, we can

733
00:26:30,365 --> 00:26:32,605
keep them from our reality, which is an

734
00:26:32,605 --> 00:26:34,845
idea that I really do sympathize with quite

735
00:26:34,845 --> 00:26:35,424
a bit.

736
00:26:36,044 --> 00:26:37,724
Might speak to our current point in the

737
00:26:37,724 --> 00:26:39,505
timeline. You know, who knows?

738
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,599
But, yeah, that's something that I I really

739
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:42,740
do resonate with.

740
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,559
It also speaks to the lady of the

741
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:45,779
late, just to be clear.

742
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:48,400
There is the suggestion or implication in the

743
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,579
film that we're dealing with nonhuman intelligence.

744
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,305
If you watch it, we're using the Estes

745
00:26:53,305 --> 00:26:55,065
method to try to engage what we perceive

746
00:26:55,065 --> 00:26:56,365
to be a nonhuman intelligence.

747
00:26:56,825 --> 00:26:59,384
And I don't ghost hunt. I've never seen

748
00:26:59,384 --> 00:27:01,485
a ghost hunting TV show to this day.

749
00:27:02,265 --> 00:27:03,565
I am very

750
00:27:04,105 --> 00:27:06,579
not fluent with the entire space post the

751
00:27:06,579 --> 00:27:07,079
spiritualism

752
00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:10,679
and Houdini trying to debunk it. And so

753
00:27:11,139 --> 00:27:12,200
I'm looking at that

754
00:27:12,740 --> 00:27:14,679
in exchange with nonhuman intelligence

755
00:27:15,299 --> 00:27:17,539
in a very different way. And what I

756
00:27:17,539 --> 00:27:18,359
see happening

757
00:27:18,875 --> 00:27:20,255
is exactly that question.

758
00:27:20,715 --> 00:27:21,934
Are we able to

759
00:27:22,315 --> 00:27:23,295
limit the

760
00:27:23,994 --> 00:27:24,494
transmission

761
00:27:25,115 --> 00:27:26,654
of whatever we're encountering

762
00:27:27,115 --> 00:27:28,894
by simply denying its existence?

763
00:27:29,595 --> 00:27:31,275
Do you have to buy the ticket to

764
00:27:31,275 --> 00:27:32,174
take the ride?

765
00:27:32,715 --> 00:27:34,015
How does this work?

766
00:27:34,529 --> 00:27:35,910
And I think that what I

767
00:27:36,289 --> 00:27:37,670
keep coming back to

768
00:27:37,970 --> 00:27:38,470
is

769
00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:40,630
how do people feel

770
00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:43,269
about what they're experiencing

771
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:46,309
and how do people feel about the phenomenon

772
00:27:46,450 --> 00:27:49,250
in general has become ultimately more interesting to

773
00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:51,384
me than the mechanics of how it works

774
00:27:51,444 --> 00:27:52,964
because what we tried to do with this

775
00:27:52,964 --> 00:27:55,224
film was see how do people feel

776
00:27:55,525 --> 00:27:57,605
when they talk to us about Hallie and

777
00:27:57,605 --> 00:28:00,484
her life? How did Amanda feel about this

778
00:28:00,484 --> 00:28:01,625
whole entire process?

779
00:28:02,099 --> 00:28:04,660
And what are the similarities between her and

780
00:28:04,660 --> 00:28:06,660
Hallie Illingworth? And how do they align and

781
00:28:06,660 --> 00:28:08,839
collide as she goes and hunts for her?

782
00:28:08,980 --> 00:28:12,200
And so for me, that emotional component of

783
00:28:12,259 --> 00:28:14,819
story and of this story and kind of

784
00:28:14,819 --> 00:28:15,799
all of our stories

785
00:28:16,125 --> 00:28:18,605
is becoming, like I say, more fascinating than

786
00:28:18,605 --> 00:28:21,085
how the sausage gets made. But the point

787
00:28:21,085 --> 00:28:23,585
to me is there's definitely sausage.

788
00:28:24,125 --> 00:28:27,005
Right? There's definitely something that we're dealing with.

789
00:28:27,005 --> 00:28:27,505
Definitely.

790
00:28:27,964 --> 00:28:30,609
3 of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right here.

791
00:28:30,609 --> 00:28:31,430
Where's Amanda?

792
00:28:32,529 --> 00:28:34,210
Oh, I can't speak for her, but I

793
00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:37,170
watched someone sort of engage with that as

794
00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:38,070
a documentarian,

795
00:28:38,609 --> 00:28:41,349
and I really did come away feeling like

796
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:42,150
the feelings

797
00:28:42,609 --> 00:28:43,509
are the things

798
00:28:43,964 --> 00:28:46,144
that probably matter the most.

799
00:28:46,605 --> 00:28:47,585
Right on. Well,

800
00:28:47,964 --> 00:28:50,204
on the subject of the feelings, like, this

801
00:28:50,204 --> 00:28:53,804
is something I copied down from Josh's last

802
00:28:53,804 --> 00:28:56,365
book, Ecology of Souls, and I was gonna

803
00:28:56,365 --> 00:28:58,204
try to shoehorn it in somewhere, and it

804
00:28:58,204 --> 00:29:00,650
fits right here. But this is a quote

805
00:29:00,650 --> 00:29:03,210
that is about the Tibetan book of the

806
00:29:03,210 --> 00:29:04,910
dead. And you write,

807
00:29:05,369 --> 00:29:08,430
the book explicitly guides readers through the afterlife,

808
00:29:08,569 --> 00:29:11,210
encouraging the dying to remain as lucid as

809
00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:13,849
possible when entering the Bardo between death and

810
00:29:13,849 --> 00:29:14,349
rebirth.

811
00:29:14,804 --> 00:29:17,125
Within this realm, the dead realize their fate

812
00:29:17,125 --> 00:29:20,484
over several days before experiencing the primary clear

813
00:29:20,484 --> 00:29:22,105
light at the death moment.

814
00:29:22,724 --> 00:29:25,144
Those who are enlightened see it and ascend.

815
00:29:25,204 --> 00:29:27,065
Others drop to a lower level,

816
00:29:27,630 --> 00:29:30,750
experiencing visions created by their karma, the good

817
00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:33,009
and bad deeds of life. They must confront

818
00:29:33,070 --> 00:29:35,250
both peaceful and wrathful beings,

819
00:29:35,549 --> 00:29:36,609
human emotions

820
00:29:36,910 --> 00:29:37,410
incarnate,

821
00:29:37,869 --> 00:29:40,690
if they wish to move towards Nirvana, liberation

822
00:29:41,654 --> 00:29:42,394
from reincarnation.

823
00:29:43,015 --> 00:29:45,654
According to Gregory Shushan, who I've interviewed since

824
00:29:45,654 --> 00:29:47,815
the last time we talked, the book so

825
00:29:47,815 --> 00:29:50,535
closely corresponds to the near death experience that

826
00:29:50,535 --> 00:29:52,934
it can effectively be seen as verification that

827
00:29:52,934 --> 00:29:55,174
the book genuinely is what it purports to

828
00:29:55,174 --> 00:29:58,359
be, a preparation for what happens at death.

829
00:29:58,819 --> 00:30:01,720
And I just thought the concept of confronting

830
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:04,680
beings that are human emotions incarnate

831
00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:08,579
is definitely in the wheelhouse here. I recently

832
00:30:08,579 --> 00:30:09,559
interviewed someone

833
00:30:09,974 --> 00:30:12,714
who thinks that when a person has experiences

834
00:30:12,775 --> 00:30:14,474
like a Whitley Strieber archetype,

835
00:30:15,734 --> 00:30:17,674
that if you go back, it's probably

836
00:30:18,375 --> 00:30:19,595
unresolved trauma.

837
00:30:20,214 --> 00:30:21,115
Not that these

838
00:30:21,494 --> 00:30:24,059
beings are related or are attracted to the

839
00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:27,680
trauma, but that it's something manifesting from inside.

840
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:29,759
Because you're not dealing with what's inside,

841
00:30:30,220 --> 00:30:31,200
you're projecting

842
00:30:32,059 --> 00:30:34,380
it out and it's coming at you from

843
00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:37,065
a third party perspective. But, I mean, that

844
00:30:37,065 --> 00:30:39,784
right there, human emotions incarnate, now that's after

845
00:30:39,784 --> 00:30:42,204
your dead, but if this mechanism is there

846
00:30:42,345 --> 00:30:45,005
in any way, shape, or form, maybe the

847
00:30:45,065 --> 00:30:47,544
lines between life and death and these things

848
00:30:47,544 --> 00:30:50,105
spilling over into life are there. Maybe that's

849
00:30:50,105 --> 00:30:52,500
a pretty good clue to what the answer

850
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:53,880
to these things are.

851
00:30:54,339 --> 00:30:56,740
Yeah. I mean, I find myself sympathizing with

852
00:30:56,740 --> 00:30:58,679
ideas and concepts like idealism

853
00:30:59,139 --> 00:31:01,079
more and more lately, the idea that

854
00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:03,940
everything is based in consciousness. And I think

855
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:04,440
that

856
00:31:04,875 --> 00:31:07,775
perhaps emotions are the very thing that reality

857
00:31:07,835 --> 00:31:09,755
runs on. Right? And it's part of the

858
00:31:09,755 --> 00:31:12,734
reason that I've become sort of frustrated with

859
00:31:13,195 --> 00:31:15,454
people needing any sort of proof

860
00:31:16,154 --> 00:31:18,315
for these things to exist. And I don't

861
00:31:18,315 --> 00:31:21,269
just stop at, you know, photographic evidence or

862
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:22,169
audio evidence.

863
00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:24,069
I'm talking about, you know, your eyes and

864
00:31:24,069 --> 00:31:26,309
ears, you know, like I it frustrates me

865
00:31:26,309 --> 00:31:27,829
and maybe I've just been doing this for

866
00:31:27,829 --> 00:31:29,929
a little bit too long, but it frustrates

867
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:31,369
me that we seed

868
00:31:32,335 --> 00:31:32,835
supremacy

869
00:31:33,375 --> 00:31:34,514
of those senses.

870
00:31:35,214 --> 00:31:37,054
We see the supremacy of our other senses

871
00:31:37,054 --> 00:31:38,355
to those senses. Right?

872
00:31:38,815 --> 00:31:40,174
We have to see it. We have to

873
00:31:40,174 --> 00:31:42,014
hear it. We have to smell it as

874
00:31:42,014 --> 00:31:43,875
I've talked about. And I'm starting to see.

875
00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:46,170
Even if you don't have any of those

876
00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:47,769
things going on, there is such a thing

877
00:31:47,769 --> 00:31:49,450
as feeling something in your gut. There is

878
00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:52,170
a world between your ears, which is probably

879
00:31:52,170 --> 00:31:53,470
no different from the world

880
00:31:53,849 --> 00:31:55,470
around your ears and outside.

881
00:31:55,849 --> 00:31:58,194
And I think that so much about our

882
00:31:58,194 --> 00:32:00,194
lives would make a good deal more sense

883
00:32:00,194 --> 00:32:02,774
if we could really grasp the false dichotomy

884
00:32:02,835 --> 00:32:05,474
between interior worlds and exterior worlds. And to

885
00:32:05,474 --> 00:32:07,234
start to realize that these things are both

886
00:32:07,234 --> 00:32:09,234
reflections of one another and that we don't

887
00:32:09,234 --> 00:32:11,255
necessarily have to see something or hear something

888
00:32:11,315 --> 00:32:12,454
to know it's there.

889
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:15,269
And that might really be all that psychics

890
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:17,289
are tapping into, right? They're sort of abandoning

891
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:20,630
the pretense that we need to see or

892
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:22,970
hear things audibly with our organs

893
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:25,555
and we can just sort of reflect and

894
00:32:25,555 --> 00:32:27,475
pay more attention to those inner ways of

895
00:32:27,475 --> 00:32:28,914
being. I think that might be what's going

896
00:32:28,914 --> 00:32:31,555
on with psychics in general. Could be. And

897
00:32:31,555 --> 00:32:34,295
there's this world of felt experience. Right? So

898
00:32:34,674 --> 00:32:36,855
anybody who has had any sort of experiences

899
00:32:37,315 --> 00:32:38,295
with the paranormal

900
00:32:38,755 --> 00:32:41,909
or strange, which I have throughout my life.

901
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:44,549
And if you have had those moments, then

902
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:45,990
you have your own language for them, and

903
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:47,829
you have your own approach to what they

904
00:32:47,829 --> 00:32:50,309
could be, and you wrestle with that probably

905
00:32:50,309 --> 00:32:52,149
for your entire life. And so it's gonna

906
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:54,230
be unique to everybody because everybody does have

907
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:56,409
a different opinion. Everybody does have a different

908
00:32:56,815 --> 00:32:59,154
culture and background. But what's really

909
00:33:00,015 --> 00:33:02,755
sad is that we are obligated

910
00:33:03,134 --> 00:33:04,835
to apply ourselves

911
00:33:05,375 --> 00:33:06,755
to a post industrial

912
00:33:07,455 --> 00:33:08,355
sort of mentality

913
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:11,430
when looking at something that is literally a

914
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:13,369
primeval part of the human experience,

915
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:17,190
and possibly the larger cosmic experience. Right? And

916
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:18,650
so when I think about

917
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:19,769
whether

918
00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:20,809
a particular

919
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:24,204
experience may be valid or not, again, I

920
00:33:24,204 --> 00:33:24,944
go back

921
00:33:25,404 --> 00:33:27,404
to how does that person feel about it.

922
00:33:27,404 --> 00:33:29,264
Right? And so for whatever reason,

923
00:33:30,044 --> 00:33:32,125
we have shied away from listening to each

924
00:33:32,125 --> 00:33:35,004
other. And I think that that unresolved trauma,

925
00:33:35,004 --> 00:33:37,289
Greg, to your point, is a byproduct of

926
00:33:37,289 --> 00:33:39,289
us not listening to each other and not

927
00:33:39,289 --> 00:33:42,029
talking to each other and not resolving issues

928
00:33:42,169 --> 00:33:44,250
at scale, which is part of this meta

929
00:33:44,250 --> 00:33:46,730
crisis that we exist in today. And I

930
00:33:46,730 --> 00:33:48,650
go back to reality and the nature of

931
00:33:48,650 --> 00:33:51,394
it. When our friend Harry Potter dies and

932
00:33:51,394 --> 00:33:53,715
goes to King's Cross Station and he meets

933
00:33:53,715 --> 00:33:56,515
up with the great wizard, Albus Dumbledore. Never

934
00:33:56,515 --> 00:33:58,914
insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me. But

935
00:33:58,914 --> 00:34:00,674
he goes to him and he says, is

936
00:34:00,674 --> 00:34:01,795
this real? Is this all in my head?

937
00:34:01,795 --> 00:34:03,234
And Albus says, of course, it's all in

938
00:34:03,234 --> 00:34:05,210
your head. But why shouldn't that make it

939
00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:08,029
real? And so, like, this idea that consciousness

940
00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:10,250
is the thing, this idea that we're exploring

941
00:34:10,250 --> 00:34:12,349
this stuff through our mind, through our feelings,

942
00:34:12,809 --> 00:34:15,849
it's really an old idea. And we just

943
00:34:15,849 --> 00:34:17,789
now got perverted to where

944
00:34:18,105 --> 00:34:19,945
science becomes religion in a lab coat, and

945
00:34:19,945 --> 00:34:22,985
you're supposed to be convinced that there's nothing,

946
00:34:22,985 --> 00:34:24,985
there's no there there unless you can view

947
00:34:24,985 --> 00:34:26,985
it under a microscope. And I think that

948
00:34:26,985 --> 00:34:29,465
that's kind of unraveling in the face of

949
00:34:29,465 --> 00:34:30,905
a lot of the change that's going on

950
00:34:30,905 --> 00:34:31,565
in the world.

951
00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:33,789
Yeah. Well said.

952
00:34:34,409 --> 00:34:36,250
So this is getting a bit heady. Let's

953
00:34:36,250 --> 00:34:37,150
bring it back

954
00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:40,329
to brownies and ritual murder. I mean, I

955
00:34:40,329 --> 00:34:42,250
took a note. I'm definitely gonna come back

956
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:44,429
to that, but just, really, Crescent

957
00:34:44,934 --> 00:34:47,174
Lake itself. This is kind of an area

958
00:34:47,174 --> 00:34:49,994
that is a hotbed for more strange activity

959
00:34:50,054 --> 00:34:51,514
than just this instance.

960
00:34:52,054 --> 00:34:52,554
And

961
00:34:53,174 --> 00:34:55,275
it's funny because I've been in that area.

962
00:34:55,815 --> 00:34:57,414
A lot of people don't even know the

963
00:34:57,414 --> 00:35:00,400
continental United States has a rainforest, and I've

964
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,719
been up to the Ho Rainforest. Really fun,

965
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,619
cool area to see. Crater Lake, not exactly

966
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:07,219
close, but also a serene

967
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,679
crazy place. And I just love the whole

968
00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:11,780
area from Crater Lake to the Ho Rainforest,

969
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,719
and this sits in that area more towards

970
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:15,380
the top.

971
00:35:16,284 --> 00:35:17,965
But, I mean, I've heard that this is

972
00:35:17,965 --> 00:35:19,105
a Bigfoot hotspot.

973
00:35:19,405 --> 00:35:21,644
I've heard that, Ryan, you got involved in

974
00:35:21,644 --> 00:35:24,125
a Facebook group about the paranormal, and the

975
00:35:24,125 --> 00:35:26,525
stories just kept coming. Talk to us about

976
00:35:26,525 --> 00:35:29,324
some of the more bizarre things that this

977
00:35:29,324 --> 00:35:32,339
region seems to be known for. Sure. Everything

978
00:35:32,339 --> 00:35:33,940
I talk to you about here in this

979
00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:36,759
next diatribe is gonna be what literally catalyzed

980
00:35:36,819 --> 00:35:39,139
the friendship between Kutchin and I because I

981
00:35:39,139 --> 00:35:41,619
was struggling, right? I knew Kiel, I knew

982
00:35:41,619 --> 00:35:43,239
the window area concept,

983
00:35:43,664 --> 00:35:45,765
And I knew then through my research

984
00:35:46,224 --> 00:35:48,144
in the region that the whole rainforest, as

985
00:35:48,144 --> 00:35:48,724
you mentioned,

986
00:35:49,025 --> 00:35:51,824
is actually the single highest spot per capita

987
00:35:51,824 --> 00:35:54,304
of big flood reportings on the planet. Oh,

988
00:35:54,304 --> 00:35:56,545
shit. And that that, as the crow flies,

989
00:35:56,545 --> 00:35:58,565
is a good 20 miles from Lake Crescent.

990
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,260
I knew that we had a paranormal

991
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,800
thread going on in the Facebook group for

992
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,639
Port Angeles citizens that I had to sneak

993
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:07,739
my way into, thanks to my unknown researcher,

994
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,659
who I won't put on blast in public.

995
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,639
But they're very private, and and the they

996
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:13,974
were verifying. And so I got in, and

997
00:36:13,974 --> 00:36:15,755
they were willing to talk about Lake Crescent.

998
00:36:15,815 --> 00:36:17,894
And there was everything from, you know, folks

999
00:36:17,894 --> 00:36:19,755
who are of the tribes out there

1000
00:36:20,054 --> 00:36:22,135
sharing, you know, some of their stories about

1001
00:36:22,135 --> 00:36:23,755
what's going on in the lake.

1002
00:36:24,295 --> 00:36:25,755
There are people that are experiencing

1003
00:36:26,135 --> 00:36:26,635
wars,

1004
00:36:27,014 --> 00:36:28,234
the woman in white,

1005
00:36:28,619 --> 00:36:29,920
more traditional ghosts,

1006
00:36:30,299 --> 00:36:30,799
aliens,

1007
00:36:31,339 --> 00:36:33,279
and UFOs, and all

1008
00:36:33,579 --> 00:36:34,719
alien like creatures,

1009
00:36:35,339 --> 00:36:37,019
little people, right? So we get into the

1010
00:36:37,019 --> 00:36:38,940
brownies and stuff. And so all of this

1011
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:41,039
stuff kind of came flooding at us.

1012
00:36:41,414 --> 00:36:41,914
And

1013
00:36:42,535 --> 00:36:44,614
I guess I was sort of trying to

1014
00:36:44,614 --> 00:36:45,515
say, okay,

1015
00:36:46,054 --> 00:36:48,215
now my brain's broken. So that's where I

1016
00:36:48,215 --> 00:36:50,554
went to the Obi Wan Kenobi with Josh

1017
00:36:50,855 --> 00:36:52,074
and sort of said,

1018
00:36:54,099 --> 00:36:56,260
help me, Obi Wan. You're my only hope.

1019
00:36:56,260 --> 00:36:57,719
I'm not Obi Wan.

1020
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:00,760
You did a Terrence begin an impersonation

1021
00:37:01,219 --> 00:37:03,300
and explained some things to me. So I

1022
00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:04,819
think I always wanna make you do that.

1023
00:37:04,819 --> 00:37:06,579
But let's go ahead and tell us in

1024
00:37:06,579 --> 00:37:09,079
Terrence's voice where you took that conversation.

1025
00:37:10,034 --> 00:37:10,934
Oh my goodness.

1026
00:37:11,315 --> 00:37:12,694
I don't know if I have an applicable

1027
00:37:12,755 --> 00:37:14,454
Terrence quote for that specifically.

1028
00:37:14,994 --> 00:37:16,375
While you think about it,

1029
00:37:16,675 --> 00:37:17,255
the ritual

1030
00:37:17,635 --> 00:37:18,775
murder component,

1031
00:37:19,635 --> 00:37:22,194
in the satanic panic, there was a retired

1032
00:37:22,194 --> 00:37:24,675
FBI guy named Ted Gunderson who kinda got

1033
00:37:24,675 --> 00:37:26,110
popular for a hot second.

1034
00:37:26,489 --> 00:37:28,890
He's on Geraldo Rivera, you can find the

1035
00:37:28,890 --> 00:37:31,230
episode out there. He makes the claim

1036
00:37:31,849 --> 00:37:33,469
that there will be a

1037
00:37:33,929 --> 00:37:37,070
body pile, a ritual burial ground

1038
00:37:37,369 --> 00:37:37,869
discovered

1039
00:37:38,214 --> 00:37:40,855
in the woods that are again adjacent as

1040
00:37:40,855 --> 00:37:43,255
the crow flies sub 50 miles from Lake

1041
00:37:43,255 --> 00:37:43,755
Crescent,

1042
00:37:44,054 --> 00:37:45,574
and it makes it into the press. There

1043
00:37:45,574 --> 00:37:47,994
was a collection of this stuff. And again,

1044
00:37:48,135 --> 00:37:50,295
I went from brownies and what do we

1045
00:37:50,295 --> 00:37:53,239
do with that? To this satanic panic influenced

1046
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:56,500
egregore of potential ritual murders that probably didn't

1047
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:58,840
happen. God forbid, let's hope they didn't. But

1048
00:37:59,219 --> 00:38:00,660
there was all of this stuff that was

1049
00:38:00,660 --> 00:38:02,739
just ripe in this little area. And the

1050
00:38:02,739 --> 00:38:05,059
whole Pacific Northwest is a hotbed for strange

1051
00:38:05,059 --> 00:38:07,644
stuff. But for whatever reason, this little area,

1052
00:38:07,644 --> 00:38:09,344
all the way back to Kenneth Arnold,

1053
00:38:09,804 --> 00:38:10,864
is attracted

1054
00:38:11,405 --> 00:38:13,184
to this stuff. Maybe it is an archetype

1055
00:38:13,324 --> 00:38:14,925
in and of itself. Maybe it is an

1056
00:38:14,925 --> 00:38:15,425
inevitable

1057
00:38:16,284 --> 00:38:18,204
slide into a region having all of this

1058
00:38:18,204 --> 00:38:20,949
lore. But for whatever reason, I can't tell

1059
00:38:20,949 --> 00:38:22,150
you I was smart enough to be able

1060
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:23,590
to differentiate it and to know what to

1061
00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:25,269
do with it. But it all kind of

1062
00:38:25,269 --> 00:38:26,390
came at me and I had to look

1063
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:29,030
at different resources to try to contextualize it.

1064
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:30,309
And there's a lot of things in the

1065
00:38:30,309 --> 00:38:32,949
film that you didn't see. But what you

1066
00:38:32,949 --> 00:38:33,690
did see

1067
00:38:34,034 --> 00:38:35,875
was a great example of how story is

1068
00:38:35,875 --> 00:38:36,614
gonna interface

1069
00:38:36,914 --> 00:38:39,714
in Israel Keyes. So Israel Keyes was a

1070
00:38:39,714 --> 00:38:41,795
serial killer that killed himself in jail after

1071
00:38:41,795 --> 00:38:43,494
being caught. He's known

1072
00:38:43,954 --> 00:38:46,434
from a body count standpoint to I think

1073
00:38:46,434 --> 00:38:48,755
he's somewhere around 7 or 8 bodies that

1074
00:38:48,755 --> 00:38:50,869
are confirmed, but it's rumored that he killed

1075
00:38:50,869 --> 00:38:52,230
just a ton of people. And if you

1076
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:54,329
look him up, he's a very disturbing guy.

1077
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:57,269
And I found his interview tapes because he

1078
00:38:57,269 --> 00:38:58,869
had lived out in the area by Lake

1079
00:38:58,869 --> 00:39:02,150
Crescent and apparently at some point admitted to

1080
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:04,025
putting a body in Lake Crescent. So then

1081
00:39:04,025 --> 00:39:05,864
I went in and looked up his interviews,

1082
00:39:05,864 --> 00:39:08,125
looked up all the transcriptions from the FBI,

1083
00:39:08,505 --> 00:39:10,505
and I found this segment where he was

1084
00:39:10,505 --> 00:39:11,885
talking about Lake Crescent

1085
00:39:12,344 --> 00:39:14,344
and says basically, I'm not quoting him, but

1086
00:39:14,344 --> 00:39:16,105
basically he says that you should have known,

1087
00:39:16,105 --> 00:39:17,385
I thought you would have known that this

1088
00:39:17,385 --> 00:39:18,664
is one of the places I would put

1089
00:39:18,664 --> 00:39:20,949
a body because it's got a history, essentially.

1090
00:39:21,329 --> 00:39:23,329
And as soon as he said it, I'm

1091
00:39:23,329 --> 00:39:25,269
like, he's talking about this story

1092
00:39:25,809 --> 00:39:28,449
because people know this story out there. And

1093
00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:30,289
so then a serial killer goes and he

1094
00:39:30,289 --> 00:39:32,289
admits to putting a body down there, and

1095
00:39:32,289 --> 00:39:33,030
he assumed

1096
00:39:33,594 --> 00:39:36,335
that the body would be in the exact

1097
00:39:36,555 --> 00:39:39,695
same condition as when he put it in,

1098
00:39:39,835 --> 00:39:41,375
which goes back to Hallie,

1099
00:39:41,835 --> 00:39:44,655
and to her being saponified and basically being

1100
00:39:44,954 --> 00:39:46,555
a statue that emerged out of there. So

1101
00:39:46,555 --> 00:39:48,449
he knew the story, I think, and there's

1102
00:39:48,449 --> 00:39:50,630
just all of these different variations on it.

1103
00:39:51,329 --> 00:39:52,710
Some are very disturbing

1104
00:39:53,329 --> 00:39:54,929
and very dark, and then others are a

1105
00:39:54,929 --> 00:39:56,849
bit more whimsical and fun. But there was

1106
00:39:56,849 --> 00:39:59,269
no really great way to parse the data.

1107
00:39:59,650 --> 00:40:01,570
You just had to sit back and take

1108
00:40:01,570 --> 00:40:02,594
it all in and go,

1109
00:40:03,554 --> 00:40:05,795
what context does an audience need to have?

1110
00:40:05,795 --> 00:40:07,715
And, again, that was where I sort of,

1111
00:40:07,715 --> 00:40:09,494
you know, had a lot of outside help.

1112
00:40:10,195 --> 00:40:11,255
Yeah. And I think

1113
00:40:11,635 --> 00:40:12,934
one of the things that

1114
00:40:13,315 --> 00:40:15,795
emerges out of Lady of the Lake, and

1115
00:40:15,795 --> 00:40:17,920
it's part of what I love about watching

1116
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,460
it, you know, rewatching it,

1117
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,240
is that you get about 2 thirds of

1118
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:22,400
the way through, and you're like, what the

1119
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,640
hell am I watching? Because, you know, it

1120
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,719
does take a turn into this other territory

1121
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,660
that we are not used to seeing in

1122
00:40:29,264 --> 00:40:31,424
ghost media or true crime media, and I

1123
00:40:31,424 --> 00:40:32,944
think that's the discussion that we need to

1124
00:40:32,944 --> 00:40:33,605
be having.

1125
00:40:34,385 --> 00:40:36,784
The fact that some of these manifestations of

1126
00:40:36,784 --> 00:40:38,565
Halley around the lake have

1127
00:40:39,105 --> 00:40:41,744
all the earmarks of what you might call

1128
00:40:41,744 --> 00:40:42,565
urban legends.

1129
00:40:43,619 --> 00:40:46,579
There's a story of how she is signaling

1130
00:40:46,579 --> 00:40:48,420
to drivers to, you know, slow down or

1131
00:40:48,420 --> 00:40:50,339
be aware of an abrupt curve so that

1132
00:40:50,339 --> 00:40:51,539
they don't go off the road. I mean,

1133
00:40:51,539 --> 00:40:54,420
that's classic urban legend stuff. Where I am,

1134
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:56,714
there's a story of a trucker who went

1135
00:40:56,714 --> 00:40:58,174
off the road on in Monteagle,

1136
00:40:58,635 --> 00:41:00,875
Tennessee and does the exact same thing. Like,

1137
00:41:00,875 --> 00:41:02,174
you'll find this story everywhere.

1138
00:41:02,474 --> 00:41:03,934
But, you know, people still

1139
00:41:04,394 --> 00:41:05,534
report these stories

1140
00:41:06,635 --> 00:41:08,130
outside of that sort of

1141
00:41:08,769 --> 00:41:11,170
matrix of folklorists that talk about these things

1142
00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:13,329
as being recurring themes and motifs. So what

1143
00:41:13,329 --> 00:41:15,009
do you do with the fact that some

1144
00:41:15,009 --> 00:41:16,630
of these sort of broader

1145
00:41:17,329 --> 00:41:20,210
stories seem to use the events of her

1146
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:22,034
death as sort of a vehicle, a sort

1147
00:41:22,034 --> 00:41:23,715
of a launching point to sort of enter

1148
00:41:23,715 --> 00:41:25,335
our reality. Similar to that,

1149
00:41:25,715 --> 00:41:28,514
you've got these stories of Halle crying alongside

1150
00:41:28,514 --> 00:41:30,675
the lake, which is very evocative of the

1151
00:41:30,675 --> 00:41:33,155
stories from Latin America of La Llorona, who's,

1152
00:41:33,155 --> 00:41:35,394
you know, seen in white weeping alongside the

1153
00:41:35,394 --> 00:41:37,650
lake. As Ryan alluded to, you've got all

1154
00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:40,130
the sort of window area strangeness there from

1155
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:41,349
Bigfoot to UFOs

1156
00:41:42,210 --> 00:41:44,150
to these stories of little people.

1157
00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:45,190
And

1158
00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:46,550
Claude Lecouteau,

1159
00:41:47,090 --> 00:41:50,964
former Sorbonne medievalist, said that fairies were so

1160
00:41:50,964 --> 00:41:53,204
closely associated with bodies of water that they

1161
00:41:53,204 --> 00:41:54,184
might be considered

1162
00:41:54,644 --> 00:41:56,885
primarily of an aquatic element. And you've got

1163
00:41:56,885 --> 00:41:59,125
stories of sirens luring people out to their

1164
00:41:59,125 --> 00:42:00,885
death Oh, I know that. In bodies of

1165
00:42:00,885 --> 00:42:03,204
water. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Paging doctor

1166
00:42:03,204 --> 00:42:03,704
Knowles.

1167
00:42:04,829 --> 00:42:06,769
You start to view this as

1168
00:42:07,070 --> 00:42:09,090
variations on a theme or as

1169
00:42:09,550 --> 00:42:12,430
attributes of lived experience being plugged into a

1170
00:42:12,430 --> 00:42:13,410
broader story.

1171
00:42:14,110 --> 00:42:15,869
It does paint a picture that we are

1172
00:42:15,869 --> 00:42:17,809
dealing with something that really transcends

1173
00:42:18,184 --> 00:42:19,784
the narratives that we've all grown up with

1174
00:42:19,784 --> 00:42:21,304
and the narratives that we've all sort of

1175
00:42:21,304 --> 00:42:23,704
come to expect to the extent that, you

1176
00:42:23,704 --> 00:42:25,405
know, it's not a household term.

1177
00:42:25,945 --> 00:42:27,244
People talk about the ETH,

1178
00:42:27,625 --> 00:42:30,284
the extraterrestrial hypothesis in regards to UFOs.

1179
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:32,179
There is a similar stranglehold

1180
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,219
in parapsychology

1181
00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:35,679
regarding ghosts that you could call the DPH,

1182
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:37,539
you know, the dead people hypothesis.

1183
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,639
And look, I'm very sympathetic to ghosts being

1184
00:42:40,639 --> 00:42:42,719
the dead that obviously plays some sort of

1185
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,804
role in whatever that contact is, but it

1186
00:42:45,804 --> 00:42:48,844
still remains a hypothesis. And before even getting

1187
00:42:48,844 --> 00:42:49,905
into stuff like,

1188
00:42:50,204 --> 00:42:52,445
you know, emotional imprints on the land or

1189
00:42:52,445 --> 00:42:54,364
the stone tape theory, I think we also

1190
00:42:54,364 --> 00:42:57,105
should pay some attention to how these stories

1191
00:42:57,324 --> 00:42:59,505
and myth themes seem to repeat themselves

1192
00:43:00,179 --> 00:43:02,900
and often repeat themselves alongside other things that

1193
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:05,859
are considered just anomalies. Yeah. I'm with you

1194
00:43:05,859 --> 00:43:08,819
there. And I'm glad you mentioned UFOs because

1195
00:43:08,819 --> 00:43:10,039
I did want to

1196
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:12,659
kinda jump over to the UFO topic while

1197
00:43:12,659 --> 00:43:14,420
we're still in this first hour so we

1198
00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:16,414
can kinda slide in some current events because

1199
00:43:16,414 --> 00:43:18,335
people are gonna wonder why the hell I'm

1200
00:43:18,335 --> 00:43:19,775
not talking about it. It's because I booked

1201
00:43:19,775 --> 00:43:21,775
my show way in advance, and I wasn't

1202
00:43:21,775 --> 00:43:23,695
expecting weird shit to happen, but I guess

1203
00:43:23,695 --> 00:43:24,594
I should have.

1204
00:43:24,894 --> 00:43:27,074
But there really is a lot of UFO

1205
00:43:27,215 --> 00:43:29,074
stuff going on right now. Obviously,

1206
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:32,239
some people think the drones over New Jersey

1207
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:35,099
were more than just drones. And now people

1208
00:43:35,099 --> 00:43:36,940
are saying that they're not just over New

1209
00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:39,260
Jersey, they're over Denmark. They're all over the

1210
00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:40,719
place. People are suddenly

1211
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:43,440
recording weird stuff in the sky.

1212
00:43:44,025 --> 00:43:46,984
And then the Cybertruck bomber apparently had some

1213
00:43:46,984 --> 00:43:47,484
manifesto

1214
00:43:47,784 --> 00:43:50,364
about the drones using anti gravity propulsion.

1215
00:43:50,905 --> 00:43:53,545
Lou Elizondo released a book not too long

1216
00:43:53,545 --> 00:43:56,789
ago that talks about ATIP and surgeries to

1217
00:43:56,789 --> 00:43:59,590
remove implants where the implants move deeper into

1218
00:43:59,590 --> 00:44:01,829
the body to get away from the surgical

1219
00:44:01,829 --> 00:44:02,329
tools.

1220
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:04,070
It is hard to keep up with these

1221
00:44:04,070 --> 00:44:07,050
things, the congressional hearings, the new whistle blowers.

1222
00:44:07,989 --> 00:44:10,164
I don't follow it as closely as I

1223
00:44:10,164 --> 00:44:11,764
should even though it is my job to

1224
00:44:11,764 --> 00:44:12,824
be somewhat aware

1225
00:44:13,204 --> 00:44:16,244
because it's not the context in which I'd

1226
00:44:16,244 --> 00:44:18,505
like to think about 40 and UFOs

1227
00:44:19,045 --> 00:44:21,464
paranormal y stuff. It's all just very

1228
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,800
military heavy. But if you look at the

1229
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,179
UFO forums today or the UFO subreddits,

1230
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,000
it's flooded with drone stuff. It's funny because

1231
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:31,739
the conspiracy

1232
00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:34,679
subreddits are talking about UFOs and the UFO

1233
00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:36,300
subreddits are talking about

1234
00:44:36,875 --> 00:44:37,375
military

1235
00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:38,815
psyop conspiracies.

1236
00:44:39,434 --> 00:44:40,734
And that's a little unusual.

1237
00:44:41,194 --> 00:44:41,694
But

1238
00:44:42,474 --> 00:44:44,255
in the context of all the geopolitical

1239
00:44:44,554 --> 00:44:47,375
tensions, it's just weird that this dead guy

1240
00:44:47,594 --> 00:44:48,734
has this manifesto

1241
00:44:49,034 --> 00:44:51,434
and says, well, these are China's things, and

1242
00:44:51,434 --> 00:44:52,289
we gotta be scared.

1243
00:44:52,929 --> 00:44:54,849
And then he goes on the Sean Ryan

1244
00:44:54,849 --> 00:44:56,929
podcast. I don't have anything bad to say

1245
00:44:56,929 --> 00:44:58,309
about Sean Ryan, but

1246
00:44:58,690 --> 00:45:01,590
the FBI comes out and verifies the manifesto

1247
00:45:01,809 --> 00:45:02,550
as authentic

1248
00:45:02,849 --> 00:45:05,914
before the podcast comes out. It's like when

1249
00:45:05,914 --> 00:45:08,715
does the FBI or the Pentagon ever verify

1250
00:45:08,715 --> 00:45:11,195
anything? They either say nothing or they deny,

1251
00:45:11,195 --> 00:45:14,394
deny, deny. So it stinks to me, but

1252
00:45:14,394 --> 00:45:16,494
it is interesting that we're talking

1253
00:45:16,954 --> 00:45:18,894
to the king himself,

1254
00:45:19,275 --> 00:45:20,094
King Kutchin,

1255
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:21,400
and

1256
00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:24,340
you gotta have some thoughts about these recent

1257
00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:26,200
events and these stories.

1258
00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:28,099
I'm gonna try to address as many as

1259
00:45:28,099 --> 00:45:29,300
I can. The first thing is that none

1260
00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:31,480
of these stories are new. The moving

1261
00:45:32,099 --> 00:45:34,625
implant under the skin, you can find examples

1262
00:45:34,765 --> 00:45:37,164
of monks writing in their diaries about the

1263
00:45:37,164 --> 00:45:39,164
devil putting a pea sized object in their

1264
00:45:39,164 --> 00:45:41,184
skin that always flees from the touch.

1265
00:45:41,565 --> 00:45:44,204
So these are always old stories that get

1266
00:45:44,204 --> 00:45:45,905
co opted and reused by

1267
00:45:46,389 --> 00:45:48,969
authority figures. Right? So that's point 1.

1268
00:45:50,949 --> 00:45:51,929
On the drones

1269
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:53,289
writ large,

1270
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:56,309
it's an amazing time to be interested in

1271
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:59,130
UFOs and to see this happening. Right? Because

1272
00:46:00,255 --> 00:46:02,974
the phenomenon has always adjusted to expectations. You

1273
00:46:02,974 --> 00:46:06,014
have the steampunk airships around the turn of

1274
00:46:06,014 --> 00:46:08,654
20th century moving into these art nouveau flying

1275
00:46:08,654 --> 00:46:09,154
saucers

1276
00:46:09,534 --> 00:46:11,694
in the mid century into the black triangles

1277
00:46:11,694 --> 00:46:12,994
of the eighties. And then

1278
00:46:13,380 --> 00:46:14,119
come 2017,

1279
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:16,179
we're all talking about this tic tac, tic

1280
00:46:16,179 --> 00:46:18,339
tac, tic tac, drones. We've been primed to

1281
00:46:18,339 --> 00:46:20,339
view the UFO phenomenon as a drone. And

1282
00:46:20,339 --> 00:46:22,339
I've had some friends who said, Yeah, but

1283
00:46:22,339 --> 00:46:23,779
people aren't really seeing those. And I said,

1284
00:46:23,779 --> 00:46:24,519
Just wait.

1285
00:46:25,059 --> 00:46:26,819
And now in the course of, you know,

1286
00:46:26,819 --> 00:46:28,644
3 short months, that's the way that the

1287
00:46:28,644 --> 00:46:31,605
American public has been conditioned to think of

1288
00:46:31,605 --> 00:46:34,324
UFOs and UAPs as drones to the extent

1289
00:46:34,324 --> 00:46:36,184
that, like, they might as well be synonymous

1290
00:46:36,244 --> 00:46:37,924
in coverage right now. So I think that

1291
00:46:37,924 --> 00:46:39,684
this is one of those watershed moments where

1292
00:46:39,684 --> 00:46:42,085
the UFO, regardless of what the drones actually

1293
00:46:42,085 --> 00:46:43,065
represent, right,

1294
00:46:43,489 --> 00:46:45,250
regardless of what they are, the public, how

1295
00:46:45,250 --> 00:46:47,089
it's changing the minds of people, is to

1296
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:48,769
think of UFOs as drones. So I think

1297
00:46:48,769 --> 00:46:50,389
it's another example of the phenomenon

1298
00:46:50,769 --> 00:46:51,589
really plucking

1299
00:46:51,889 --> 00:46:54,630
a commonly reported shape out of the zeitgeist

1300
00:46:54,769 --> 00:46:57,030
and applying it to its form and function.

1301
00:46:58,005 --> 00:46:58,984
2nd part of

1302
00:46:59,605 --> 00:47:01,204
that, regardless of what the drones were, I

1303
00:47:01,204 --> 00:47:03,144
do think some people are seeing some genuinely

1304
00:47:03,364 --> 00:47:05,284
anomalous stuff, some stuff that might not even

1305
00:47:05,284 --> 00:47:05,864
be terrestrial.

1306
00:47:06,724 --> 00:47:09,284
Maybe the phenomenon is being attracted by all

1307
00:47:09,284 --> 00:47:11,464
the extra attention in the skies or

1308
00:47:11,930 --> 00:47:13,930
this is how strange our skies always are.

1309
00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:15,450
And it's just now that people are paying

1310
00:47:15,450 --> 00:47:17,450
attention and looking up, you know, looking up

1311
00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:19,930
and seeing things until they're finally realizing how

1312
00:47:19,930 --> 00:47:22,590
strange things can get. They saw the Superman

1313
00:47:22,650 --> 00:47:23,150
trailer.

1314
00:47:23,769 --> 00:47:24,269
Right?

1315
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:26,410
Yeah. It's a bird, it's a plane, no,

1316
00:47:26,410 --> 00:47:27,230
it's a drone.

1317
00:47:27,744 --> 00:47:28,244
And

1318
00:47:28,704 --> 00:47:30,304
we got a constellation of things going on

1319
00:47:30,304 --> 00:47:33,425
here. We've got some shady terrestrial drones. We've

1320
00:47:33,425 --> 00:47:35,284
got some abject misidentifications

1321
00:47:35,905 --> 00:47:37,824
of very mundane things, and we probably have

1322
00:47:37,824 --> 00:47:39,445
some strangeness up there too.

1323
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:42,440
I do not know what to make of

1324
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,500
it or the manifesto as it came out.

1325
00:47:46,359 --> 00:47:49,079
I have to admit being attracted to the

1326
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:50,619
parsimony of 2

1327
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:51,900
conspiratorial

1328
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,739
flash points coming together,

1329
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:56,734
as you alluded to with the different subreddits

1330
00:47:56,795 --> 00:47:58,654
sort of cross pollinating in that way.

1331
00:47:58,954 --> 00:48:01,755
I'm trying to remain aware of the fact

1332
00:48:01,755 --> 00:48:03,994
that that flatters my sensibilities and that I

1333
00:48:03,994 --> 00:48:05,755
love seeing how these things are connected. That

1334
00:48:05,755 --> 00:48:07,534
does feel a little bit too parsimonious

1335
00:48:07,835 --> 00:48:10,320
to me. And if it flatters my sensibilities,

1336
00:48:10,460 --> 00:48:12,460
I usually become quite skeptical of it right

1337
00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:13,480
away. So

1338
00:48:14,059 --> 00:48:14,719
Amen. Amen.

1339
00:48:15,179 --> 00:48:16,940
Here's been my biggest problem throughout this whole

1340
00:48:16,940 --> 00:48:18,800
drone flap and I do appreciate

1341
00:48:20,219 --> 00:48:22,300
the coverage of the manifesto because it does

1342
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:23,440
resituate this.

1343
00:48:24,014 --> 00:48:24,514
Ufologists

1344
00:48:24,815 --> 00:48:27,135
are so obsessed with exo politics that they

1345
00:48:27,135 --> 00:48:28,275
forget about geopolitics,

1346
00:48:28,734 --> 00:48:30,994
which still exist and are still a thing

1347
00:48:31,534 --> 00:48:33,155
and present a more ominous

1348
00:48:33,614 --> 00:48:35,775
threat and concern than any of the exo

1349
00:48:35,775 --> 00:48:36,914
politics stuff. Right?

1350
00:48:37,260 --> 00:48:38,480
So I do appreciate

1351
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:42,059
the fact that people are talking more about

1352
00:48:42,059 --> 00:48:44,780
geopolitics in the past 24 hours since all

1353
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:45,679
this came out.

1354
00:48:46,219 --> 00:48:47,599
But at the same time,

1355
00:48:48,059 --> 00:48:49,659
that could be a cover for something as

1356
00:48:49,659 --> 00:48:51,579
well. So I think that the best sort

1357
00:48:51,579 --> 00:48:53,454
of remedy for all this, for me at

1358
00:48:53,454 --> 00:48:55,795
least, and people can take this or leave

1359
00:48:56,094 --> 00:48:59,474
it, is to proceed with open minded interest

1360
00:48:59,614 --> 00:49:01,855
and to, you know, constantly perform a gut

1361
00:49:01,855 --> 00:49:03,554
check and see what they think about it.

1362
00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:06,619
I do think that something about the Las

1363
00:49:06,619 --> 00:49:07,599
Vegas incidents

1364
00:49:08,059 --> 00:49:09,659
don't pass the smell test, but I could

1365
00:49:09,659 --> 00:49:11,519
have told you that on day 2.

1366
00:49:12,139 --> 00:49:13,599
So who knows?

1367
00:49:14,139 --> 00:49:14,880
It's just

1368
00:49:15,579 --> 00:49:17,819
here's your Terrence McKenna quote, Brian. You wanted

1369
00:49:17,819 --> 00:49:19,454
a you wanted a Terence McKenna quote, you

1370
00:49:19,454 --> 00:49:20,275
know, okay.

1371
00:49:20,654 --> 00:49:22,194
It is this idea that, you

1372
00:49:22,494 --> 00:49:25,534
know, we're cascading towards an ever increasing advent

1373
00:49:25,534 --> 00:49:28,815
of novelty that will become so suffocating and

1374
00:49:28,815 --> 00:49:31,135
frequent that the only thing by which we

1375
00:49:31,135 --> 00:49:32,594
recognize our entire

1376
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:35,160
reality is the ever increasing novelty.

1377
00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:37,619
And he was right. I mean, like, let's

1378
00:49:37,619 --> 00:49:38,820
take a step back and say that, you

1379
00:49:38,820 --> 00:49:39,320
know,

1380
00:49:40,019 --> 00:49:42,019
time wave 0 might not have been spot

1381
00:49:42,019 --> 00:49:43,539
on and the timing might have been funny,

1382
00:49:43,539 --> 00:49:45,380
although a strong case can be made that

1383
00:49:45,380 --> 00:49:47,219
2012 is when things started to sort of

1384
00:49:47,219 --> 00:49:47,960
get strange.

1385
00:49:48,364 --> 00:49:50,444
Yeah. I interviewed a guy whose whole claim

1386
00:49:50,444 --> 00:49:52,144
was that we all died in 2012.

1387
00:49:52,684 --> 00:49:54,304
Yeah. I heard that as well. Yeah.

1388
00:49:54,684 --> 00:49:55,184
But

1389
00:49:55,565 --> 00:49:57,085
the point is, is that the broader point

1390
00:49:57,085 --> 00:49:58,764
that Terrence was trying to make is that

1391
00:49:58,764 --> 00:50:00,864
yes, we are on an asymptotic

1392
00:50:01,359 --> 00:50:04,260
curve towards ever increasing novelty. That seems

1393
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:06,500
to be apparent to anyone paying attention.

1394
00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:09,280
Yeah. And I just wanna say 2 things.

1395
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,599
Number 1, to Rifan McKenna. In the last

1396
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:13,199
interview that he gave where he's out in

1397
00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:15,405
Hawaii and going into some of that stuff,

1398
00:50:15,485 --> 00:50:17,905
he talks about how he fully expects us

1399
00:50:18,045 --> 00:50:18,545
to

1400
00:50:19,085 --> 00:50:20,625
be able to transfer consciousness

1401
00:50:21,405 --> 00:50:23,184
from one body to another,

1402
00:50:23,644 --> 00:50:24,625
to travel

1403
00:50:25,005 --> 00:50:26,925
faster than light speed, have all this amazing

1404
00:50:26,925 --> 00:50:29,025
technology while at the same time we're displaying

1405
00:50:29,085 --> 00:50:30,144
unlimited barbarism

1406
00:50:30,809 --> 00:50:32,430
and killing each other and

1407
00:50:32,809 --> 00:50:35,050
doing all of these terrible things, and that

1408
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:36,989
both of them will be happening at scale.

1409
00:50:37,369 --> 00:50:39,309
And I think that that sort

1410
00:50:39,690 --> 00:50:42,329
of novelty is absolutely the state that we

1411
00:50:42,329 --> 00:50:44,250
live in. I think that there's also

1412
00:50:45,184 --> 00:50:46,405
and I'm not a parapolitical

1413
00:50:46,784 --> 00:50:47,844
person, but

1414
00:50:48,864 --> 00:50:51,505
I do believe that we are sort of

1415
00:50:51,505 --> 00:50:52,005
existing

1416
00:50:52,545 --> 00:50:54,005
in an MK Ultra

1417
00:50:54,385 --> 00:50:56,625
sort of state. Oh, now we're in now

1418
00:50:56,625 --> 00:50:59,239
we're cooking with gas, Ryan. And have been

1419
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:00,460
for quite some time.

1420
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,819
And so now that that's become the norm,

1421
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:05,420
I can basically

1422
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,039
talk about the drones this way, just to

1423
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:09,260
say this is my thought.

1424
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:10,380
The disclosure,

1425
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,940
which is what's happening, the disclosure

1426
00:51:13,805 --> 00:51:15,184
is a cover up.

1427
00:51:15,724 --> 00:51:17,585
But the cover up

1428
00:51:18,204 --> 00:51:18,704
is

1429
00:51:19,085 --> 00:51:19,905
the disclosure.

1430
00:51:20,204 --> 00:51:22,285
So the fact that they're even engaging with

1431
00:51:22,285 --> 00:51:24,765
the cover up, to me, implies that, you

1432
00:51:24,765 --> 00:51:26,045
know, we're we're getting to the point where

1433
00:51:26,045 --> 00:51:28,019
it's like we're getting softened, you know, to

1434
00:51:28,019 --> 00:51:30,280
be able to, like, experience more

1435
00:51:30,660 --> 00:51:31,160
things

1436
00:51:31,539 --> 00:51:33,380
based on the Brookings Institute. And I I'm

1437
00:51:33,380 --> 00:51:35,780
sure there's a trajectory that makes sense for

1438
00:51:35,780 --> 00:51:37,860
a larger apparatus like the government in that

1439
00:51:37,860 --> 00:51:40,364
way, plus all of the political implications and

1440
00:51:40,525 --> 00:51:42,445
commercial implications that come along with maybe hiding

1441
00:51:42,445 --> 00:51:44,204
some of that technology or whatever has been

1442
00:51:44,204 --> 00:51:44,864
going on.

1443
00:51:45,405 --> 00:51:47,005
But at the end of the day, I

1444
00:51:47,005 --> 00:51:47,985
go back to,

1445
00:51:48,525 --> 00:51:51,025
isn't it amazing to see people

1446
00:51:51,324 --> 00:51:51,824
feel

1447
00:51:52,204 --> 00:51:52,704
enchanted

1448
00:51:53,164 --> 00:51:54,385
by this whole process?

1449
00:51:54,989 --> 00:51:56,989
And if they can avoid the razor wire

1450
00:51:56,989 --> 00:52:00,369
of World War 3 or impending reptilian domination,

1451
00:52:00,750 --> 00:52:02,989
if they can avoid those two things and

1452
00:52:02,989 --> 00:52:06,190
just for a moment suspend disbelief and find

1453
00:52:06,190 --> 00:52:09,525
themselves engaged with this experience of life, right,

1454
00:52:09,684 --> 00:52:12,644
Whatever's piloting these things. I love seeing people

1455
00:52:12,644 --> 00:52:14,964
talking about this and not talking so much

1456
00:52:14,964 --> 00:52:15,784
in the pejorative

1457
00:52:16,324 --> 00:52:17,784
about life for a minute.

1458
00:52:18,244 --> 00:52:20,565
That was really inspiring to me. That's what

1459
00:52:20,565 --> 00:52:21,065
all

1460
00:52:21,780 --> 00:52:22,679
good eschatology

1461
00:52:23,059 --> 00:52:25,619
does. Right? Is it has a re enchanting

1462
00:52:25,619 --> 00:52:27,219
sort of quality to it. It's that old

1463
00:52:27,219 --> 00:52:28,820
question of, like, if you knew today was

1464
00:52:28,820 --> 00:52:30,179
the last day on earth, what would you

1465
00:52:30,179 --> 00:52:33,219
do? And everyone's answer is hugging loved ones,

1466
00:52:33,219 --> 00:52:35,239
having the best meal that they could have,

1467
00:52:35,744 --> 00:52:38,224
going outside and hugging a tree and putting

1468
00:52:38,224 --> 00:52:39,824
their toes in the grass. Like, it's all

1469
00:52:39,824 --> 00:52:41,105
about stuff that we do day to day

1470
00:52:41,105 --> 00:52:42,804
and take for granted. So that's what

1471
00:52:43,184 --> 00:52:44,005
really confronting

1472
00:52:44,304 --> 00:52:46,304
mortality, be it of yourself or of the

1473
00:52:46,304 --> 00:52:46,804
world,

1474
00:52:47,264 --> 00:52:49,744
does. And so, yeah, that is a positive

1475
00:52:49,744 --> 00:52:50,644
side to this.

1476
00:52:51,420 --> 00:52:52,639
Seeing a UFO

1477
00:52:53,019 --> 00:52:54,319
as a beautiful thing,

1478
00:52:54,940 --> 00:52:57,280
that's the component that I think is missing.

1479
00:52:58,139 --> 00:52:59,819
And, you know, we go through cycles like

1480
00:52:59,819 --> 00:53:02,960
this too. Anybody who's into film history can

1481
00:53:03,260 --> 00:53:05,819
easily riff on Star Wars emerging out of

1482
00:53:05,819 --> 00:53:07,715
Dirty Harry. Right? And

1483
00:53:08,175 --> 00:53:09,075
all of the

1484
00:53:09,934 --> 00:53:12,175
fantasy movies coming out of these darker times

1485
00:53:12,175 --> 00:53:14,015
and as a response to them. So I

1486
00:53:14,015 --> 00:53:17,135
really hope personally that we're walking the razor

1487
00:53:17,135 --> 00:53:17,875
edge towards

1488
00:53:18,175 --> 00:53:20,335
the next Harry Potter or something as opposed

1489
00:53:20,335 --> 00:53:22,820
to World War III. But there's definitely a

1490
00:53:22,820 --> 00:53:24,440
really dark sensibility

1491
00:53:24,739 --> 00:53:26,739
to this time period as well. So I

1492
00:53:26,739 --> 00:53:29,000
can see how people are responding to it

1493
00:53:29,219 --> 00:53:30,440
in a negative way.

1494
00:53:30,739 --> 00:53:32,660
But I would also venture out on a

1495
00:53:32,660 --> 00:53:35,300
limb and just say, Stop looking to the

1496
00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:38,744
government to qualify your existence. Stop looking to

1497
00:53:38,744 --> 00:53:39,485
the government

1498
00:53:39,864 --> 00:53:40,605
to justify

1499
00:53:40,905 --> 00:53:42,125
your lived experience

1500
00:53:42,985 --> 00:53:45,945
and stop looking to the government for your

1501
00:53:45,945 --> 00:53:47,784
source of truth, right? We go back to

1502
00:53:47,784 --> 00:53:49,859
how are you feeling, right? In your stomach,

1503
00:53:49,859 --> 00:53:51,219
how does it feel when you saw that

1504
00:53:51,219 --> 00:53:53,139
thing that you saw? In your stomach, how

1505
00:53:53,139 --> 00:53:54,739
does it feel when you hear these people

1506
00:53:54,739 --> 00:53:56,920
talk who are talking? Use that.

1507
00:53:57,219 --> 00:53:58,980
You've had that beaten out of you. So

1508
00:53:58,980 --> 00:54:00,659
go ahead and try to use it now

1509
00:54:00,659 --> 00:54:02,260
and see how that works out because in

1510
00:54:02,260 --> 00:54:04,974
the end, that's gonna be the best barometer

1511
00:54:04,974 --> 00:54:07,054
for truth you have because we are moving

1512
00:54:07,054 --> 00:54:10,335
into that wacky MK Ultra novelty period, and

1513
00:54:10,335 --> 00:54:12,815
you kinda have to assume that you are

1514
00:54:12,815 --> 00:54:14,655
your own best advocate. It's like when you

1515
00:54:14,655 --> 00:54:16,655
go into the hospital, you really are your

1516
00:54:16,655 --> 00:54:18,860
own best advocate. You're kind of in that

1517
00:54:18,860 --> 00:54:20,239
liminal space right now.

1518
00:54:20,619 --> 00:54:23,180
Amen. And not to take us too far

1519
00:54:23,180 --> 00:54:25,420
into conspiracy land, but you said MKL is

1520
00:54:25,420 --> 00:54:27,500
your first, Ryan, so I can say it

1521
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:29,039
now. But, you know,

1522
00:54:29,739 --> 00:54:32,400
both of the New Year's Day attackers,

1523
00:54:32,825 --> 00:54:36,105
the New Orleans guy and the Cybertruck guy,

1524
00:54:36,105 --> 00:54:39,385
they both spent time at Fort Bragg. And

1525
00:54:39,385 --> 00:54:42,365
Fort Bragg is known for having a psychological

1526
00:54:42,825 --> 00:54:44,125
warfare division.

1527
00:54:44,505 --> 00:54:45,325
It's basically

1528
00:54:45,785 --> 00:54:48,630
the MK Ultra hub. So you have 2

1529
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:50,010
ex military guys

1530
00:54:50,710 --> 00:54:52,710
who did time in the exact place. I

1531
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:55,130
mean, if you know the Michael Aquino stuff,

1532
00:54:55,429 --> 00:54:57,609
that all comes out of Fort Bragg too.

1533
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:59,829
It's like something dark's going on there that

1534
00:54:59,829 --> 00:55:01,210
is a real hub for

1535
00:55:01,605 --> 00:55:03,525
this activity and how it's crossing over into

1536
00:55:03,525 --> 00:55:04,025
UFO

1537
00:55:04,644 --> 00:55:06,244
space. Well and, you know, it occurs to

1538
00:55:06,244 --> 00:55:06,905
me that

1539
00:55:07,284 --> 00:55:08,425
someone doesn't necessarily

1540
00:55:08,804 --> 00:55:11,065
need to go through MK Ultra experiments

1541
00:55:11,525 --> 00:55:14,025
experimentation on you to be in that milieu.

1542
00:55:14,164 --> 00:55:16,505
And, you know, if we do believe, as

1543
00:55:16,949 --> 00:55:19,349
people like Chris Knowles have talked about MK

1544
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:21,909
Ultra being more about calling down demons than

1545
00:55:21,909 --> 00:55:22,809
anything else,

1546
00:55:23,429 --> 00:55:25,369
you know, it stands to reason that

1547
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:27,750
something like that could be called down and

1548
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:29,530
sort of set up shop in a location

1549
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:30,650
and then have

1550
00:55:31,275 --> 00:55:33,835
an entire array of people to pick from

1551
00:55:33,835 --> 00:55:35,434
regardless of whether or not they were actually

1552
00:55:35,434 --> 00:55:37,114
approached or not. Just the fact that something

1553
00:55:37,114 --> 00:55:39,514
dark might hover around a location seems entirely

1554
00:55:39,514 --> 00:55:41,514
plausible to me. And if you ever read

1555
00:55:41,514 --> 00:55:43,855
like Program to Kill, there is actually

1556
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:46,639
a paper trail for these sorts of things

1557
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:47,139
happening.

1558
00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:50,900
To what extent is obviously kind of spurious,

1559
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,880
but there is definitely a paper trail for

1560
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,079
some of these things type of like, you

1561
00:55:54,079 --> 00:55:55,139
know, people becoming

1562
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,454
having tendencies towards these sorts of violent outbursts

1563
00:55:58,535 --> 00:56:00,695
after participating in certain types of programs or

1564
00:56:00,695 --> 00:56:03,175
being in certain places, there's definitely correlations that

1565
00:56:03,175 --> 00:56:05,255
you can draw. Like, that's common sense. Everybody

1566
00:56:05,255 --> 00:56:06,795
knows it. Can you attribute

1567
00:56:07,335 --> 00:56:09,994
some sort of government program to these things?

1568
00:56:10,135 --> 00:56:13,655
That's spurious. It's total conjecture. But how do

1569
00:56:13,655 --> 00:56:14,315
you feel

1570
00:56:14,909 --> 00:56:17,150
when you see it? Where is your gut

1571
00:56:17,150 --> 00:56:19,150
when you see this stuff, right? And, like,

1572
00:56:19,150 --> 00:56:19,809
for me,

1573
00:56:20,349 --> 00:56:21,409
what I think

1574
00:56:21,949 --> 00:56:24,429
with these activities is that we are just

1575
00:56:24,429 --> 00:56:27,089
headed into the cuckoo land. And

1576
00:56:27,534 --> 00:56:30,255
if you've ever taken psychedelic medicine and had

1577
00:56:30,255 --> 00:56:32,175
to get through it, and if you feel

1578
00:56:32,175 --> 00:56:33,534
like you're going to die and you just

1579
00:56:33,534 --> 00:56:35,614
have to lean into the death, like, here's

1580
00:56:35,614 --> 00:56:36,514
where you are.

1581
00:56:36,974 --> 00:56:38,735
You're in that space where this is going

1582
00:56:38,735 --> 00:56:40,940
to get weird. I personally think it's gonna

1583
00:56:40,940 --> 00:56:41,440
intensify.

1584
00:56:41,739 --> 00:56:43,659
To the point of these demons and the

1585
00:56:43,659 --> 00:56:46,619
idea of this demon haunted world, not to

1586
00:56:46,619 --> 00:56:48,780
make too Sagan was against it, right? But,

1587
00:56:48,780 --> 00:56:50,559
like, this idea of the demons,

1588
00:56:51,179 --> 00:56:53,179
I kind of have had this wonder in

1589
00:56:53,179 --> 00:56:56,494
me about the UFO phenomenon as it sits

1590
00:56:57,114 --> 00:56:58,714
because Josh, you made a comment, we were

1591
00:56:58,714 --> 00:57:00,494
on a show the other day, about

1592
00:57:00,875 --> 00:57:02,714
the potential for the Tic Tac or the

1593
00:57:02,714 --> 00:57:05,214
drone even becoming the next physical

1594
00:57:05,514 --> 00:57:06,494
visual manifestation

1595
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,320
of the UFO phenomenon in a long series

1596
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,500
of them, right, from airships to drones.

1597
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:13,880
So you're talking about that and I was

1598
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,160
thinking about if I were a hungry non

1599
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,400
human intelligence sitting on the other side of

1600
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,099
the veil that actually needed

1601
00:57:21,795 --> 00:57:23,655
belief to exist, right?

1602
00:57:24,194 --> 00:57:25,795
I would be looking at the world and

1603
00:57:25,795 --> 00:57:27,014
going, It's so secular.

1604
00:57:27,635 --> 00:57:29,714
How do I get people to believe in

1605
00:57:29,714 --> 00:57:32,614
anything again? And I think that shaking the

1606
00:57:32,675 --> 00:57:36,369
tree proverbially here could be almost a ploy

1607
00:57:36,369 --> 00:57:37,269
from a hungry

1608
00:57:37,890 --> 00:57:40,130
psychic entity that does want us to speak

1609
00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:42,130
to your point on that. Is there like

1610
00:57:42,130 --> 00:57:42,789
a precedent

1611
00:57:43,329 --> 00:57:43,829
for

1612
00:57:44,130 --> 00:57:45,269
alignment between

1613
00:57:45,570 --> 00:57:48,769
the changing modes of how we experience, let's

1614
00:57:48,769 --> 00:57:49,590
say, the UFO

1615
00:57:50,204 --> 00:57:50,945
and also

1616
00:57:51,805 --> 00:57:53,105
folklore or traditional

1617
00:57:53,644 --> 00:57:56,704
religion around entities that are looking for belief

1618
00:57:56,765 --> 00:57:57,505
to manifest?

1619
00:57:58,045 --> 00:58:00,465
I'm sure you could draw some rough correlations

1620
00:58:01,005 --> 00:58:01,505
between

1621
00:58:01,805 --> 00:58:03,089
the eighties

1622
00:58:03,389 --> 00:58:05,630
ascension of the new age and sort of

1623
00:58:05,630 --> 00:58:07,630
how that was an inflection point when things

1624
00:58:07,630 --> 00:58:08,690
changed. And

1625
00:58:09,309 --> 00:58:09,809
obviously,

1626
00:58:10,269 --> 00:58:12,909
world wars tend to have an outsized impact

1627
00:58:12,909 --> 00:58:15,069
upon spirituality too. So that might be tied

1628
00:58:15,069 --> 00:58:17,635
up in the whole Kenneth Arnold era, the

1629
00:58:17,635 --> 00:58:18,855
flying saucer era.

1630
00:58:19,554 --> 00:58:20,534
I think that

1631
00:58:21,155 --> 00:58:21,894
if not

1632
00:58:22,514 --> 00:58:23,014
orchestrated

1633
00:58:24,355 --> 00:58:27,394
by some sort of outsized meta intelligence that

1634
00:58:27,394 --> 00:58:29,414
this time period is just scheduled.

1635
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,719
I find it really fascinating to me that

1636
00:58:32,719 --> 00:58:34,900
we're going through all this and that, look,

1637
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,239
I've been historically very critical of disclosure, but

1638
00:58:38,239 --> 00:58:40,559
I think we can all say that it

1639
00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:42,320
seems as if some sort of gains have

1640
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,234
been made if in no other way than

1641
00:58:44,234 --> 00:58:45,994
getting people on the street to say, yeah.

1642
00:58:45,994 --> 00:58:48,474
There is something funny about this stuff. That's

1643
00:58:48,474 --> 00:58:49,534
a sea change. Right?

1644
00:58:50,154 --> 00:58:52,234
Yeah. It's sad how little How little it

1645
00:58:52,234 --> 00:58:55,355
takes. We get. Yeah. I mean, the crumbs,

1646
00:58:55,355 --> 00:58:56,174
you know, we're

1647
00:58:56,650 --> 00:58:58,650
really just eating crumbs here, but That that

1648
00:58:58,650 --> 00:59:00,349
is a sea change. And I think that

1649
00:59:00,809 --> 00:59:02,809
the success of that movement for whatever you

1650
00:59:02,809 --> 00:59:04,170
wanna call it, and I think it still

1651
00:59:04,170 --> 00:59:05,769
falls short of what it could accomplish or

1652
00:59:05,769 --> 00:59:07,449
what they seek to accomplish, but still the

1653
00:59:07,449 --> 00:59:08,909
relative success of that movement,

1654
00:59:09,335 --> 00:59:10,795
coupled with the lack of

1655
00:59:11,094 --> 00:59:13,434
faith and authority structures, coupled with

1656
00:59:14,054 --> 00:59:15,835
bizarre geopolitical tensions,

1657
00:59:16,454 --> 00:59:17,894
I think it all speaks to the time

1658
00:59:17,894 --> 00:59:19,974
that this is trickster time. Like I think

1659
00:59:19,974 --> 00:59:22,135
that these things are not unrelated at all.

1660
00:59:22,135 --> 00:59:23,974
That's going in the title. Well, I I

1661
00:59:23,974 --> 00:59:26,210
just think that it's this ties back onto

1662
00:59:26,210 --> 00:59:27,650
some stuff that I first learned about in

1663
00:59:27,650 --> 00:59:29,730
some of your conversations with Gordon about Fort's

1664
00:59:29,730 --> 00:59:30,230
dominance.

1665
00:59:30,929 --> 00:59:32,690
It does seem like as if there is

1666
00:59:32,690 --> 00:59:34,769
a prescribed time where it is trickster time

1667
00:59:34,769 --> 00:59:35,429
now. And

1668
00:59:35,969 --> 00:59:38,824
the level of not only acceptance, but fluency

1669
00:59:38,885 --> 00:59:40,744
with which I see people discussing

1670
00:59:41,125 --> 00:59:43,764
the UFO topic in particular is quite shocking.

1671
00:59:43,764 --> 00:59:45,525
I can't tell you how many conversations I've

1672
00:59:45,525 --> 00:59:47,304
had with average people on the street

1673
00:59:47,764 --> 00:59:49,445
where, you know, they ask me what I'm

1674
00:59:49,445 --> 00:59:51,539
into and I mentioned the UFO thing. And

1675
00:59:51,699 --> 00:59:53,619
I'm preparing my spiel to say that I

1676
00:59:53,619 --> 00:59:55,940
don't think it's ET. Right? And before I

1677
00:59:55,940 --> 00:59:57,699
can even say that, the person will say,

1678
00:59:57,699 --> 00:59:59,699
I think they're interdimensional. And I'm like, what

1679
00:59:59,699 --> 01:00:01,460
in the John Keel did you just say?

1680
01:00:01,460 --> 01:00:04,484
Like like, how has this discussion moved such

1681
01:00:04,484 --> 01:00:06,644
that people will sort of offer that? Regardless

1682
01:00:06,644 --> 01:00:08,484
whether or not it's accurate or not. Like,

1683
01:00:08,484 --> 01:00:09,784
that's a bizarre thing.

1684
01:00:10,164 --> 01:00:11,844
You know, another example that I've been using

1685
01:00:11,844 --> 01:00:13,605
lately is I have you know, I used

1686
01:00:13,605 --> 01:00:15,844
to not talk to people at my church

1687
01:00:15,844 --> 01:00:17,605
about what I I'm into because, you know,

1688
01:00:17,605 --> 01:00:19,204
it opened up a whole can of worms

1689
01:00:19,204 --> 01:00:21,530
and the obvious conversations that have to come

1690
01:00:21,530 --> 01:00:23,210
out of that. And now I'm at church

1691
01:00:23,210 --> 01:00:24,730
functions and people are coming up to me

1692
01:00:24,730 --> 01:00:27,369
asking me about Skinwalker Ranch and Chris Bledsoe.

1693
01:00:27,369 --> 01:00:28,190
And it's like,

1694
01:00:28,489 --> 01:00:29,309
what happened?

1695
01:00:29,769 --> 01:00:30,750
And I think it's

1696
01:00:31,289 --> 01:00:34,494
tied into that ever increasing novelty, probably tied

1697
01:00:34,494 --> 01:00:37,074
into the 2012 shift, probably tied into

1698
01:00:37,454 --> 01:00:39,715
this trickster era. And I think these things

1699
01:00:40,094 --> 01:00:42,414
whatever gains disclosure has made, I don't know

1700
01:00:42,414 --> 01:00:43,775
if any of them would have been made

1701
01:00:43,775 --> 01:00:45,535
in any other time period. I think that

1702
01:00:45,535 --> 01:00:47,799
this is a top down sort of permission

1703
01:00:47,799 --> 01:00:50,539
to do this from forces we can't comprehend.

1704
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,260
The coyote is on the prowl.

1705
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,159
Being aware, right? Like being situationally aware is

1706
01:00:57,159 --> 01:00:57,819
so important.

1707
01:00:58,359 --> 01:01:00,460
Amen. Amen. Well said.

1708
01:01:01,094 --> 01:01:03,494
Okay. Well, I think this was really great.

1709
01:01:03,494 --> 01:01:05,355
We gotta find some place to land.

1710
01:01:06,215 --> 01:01:08,054
I will be honest. When I put my

1711
01:01:08,054 --> 01:01:10,215
producer hat on and I was, like, getting

1712
01:01:10,215 --> 01:01:11,815
ready for this, as you know, we rescheduled

1713
01:01:11,815 --> 01:01:13,175
because I was like, I need more time

1714
01:01:13,175 --> 01:01:15,014
to figure this thing out because I was

1715
01:01:15,014 --> 01:01:16,739
worried how are we gonna talk about this

1716
01:01:16,739 --> 01:01:17,239
film

1717
01:01:17,619 --> 01:01:19,380
that is as long as the interview that

1718
01:01:19,380 --> 01:01:20,280
I need to do

1719
01:01:20,579 --> 01:01:22,980
and not give away the whole goddamn thing.

1720
01:01:22,980 --> 01:01:24,739
And, you know, now this is one of

1721
01:01:24,739 --> 01:01:26,420
my favorite ones in a while, so it

1722
01:01:26,420 --> 01:01:27,719
all worked out. And

1723
01:01:28,019 --> 01:01:30,420
let's do the promo thing one more time.

1724
01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:31,880
Tell them where they can see

1725
01:01:32,244 --> 01:01:34,085
Lady of the lake, tell them about the

1726
01:01:34,085 --> 01:01:36,964
upcoming projects mentioned. Anything else you got going

1727
01:01:36,964 --> 01:01:38,885
on? I know, Josh, you wrote a novel

1728
01:01:38,885 --> 01:01:40,484
too. If you haven't done enough to make

1729
01:01:40,484 --> 01:01:41,385
me look lazy,

1730
01:01:41,684 --> 01:01:43,364
hit them with all the good stuff. Ryan,

1731
01:01:43,364 --> 01:01:44,724
I'll let you start with the lady of

1732
01:01:44,724 --> 01:01:46,710
the lake details and VOD and all that.

1733
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:48,869
Yeah. So the Lady of the Lake is

1734
01:01:48,869 --> 01:01:51,109
streaming on all of the platforms, but we

1735
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:52,869
prefer you go to Amazon or Itunes if

1736
01:01:52,869 --> 01:01:54,389
you can because they give us the most

1737
01:01:54,389 --> 01:01:56,389
coin. And movies ain't cheap. And like I

1738
01:01:56,389 --> 01:01:57,909
said, we're self financed. So if you like

1739
01:01:57,909 --> 01:01:59,190
it weird and you like it true to

1740
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:59,849
your individual

1741
01:02:00,150 --> 01:02:02,724
self, then keep sponsoring weird people You're doing

1742
01:02:02,724 --> 01:02:03,224
that.

1743
01:02:03,684 --> 01:02:04,664
And then online,

1744
01:02:05,204 --> 01:02:07,125
you can follow Creepy Kingdom to see the

1745
01:02:07,125 --> 01:02:09,464
menagerie of stuff that company does.

1746
01:02:10,005 --> 01:02:12,005
That's the best way. I'm not that interesting

1747
01:02:12,005 --> 01:02:14,244
on social media. You are the co creator

1748
01:02:14,244 --> 01:02:16,920
of that company, right, Ryan? Co owner, yeah.

1749
01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:19,480
Co owner. Yeah. Cool. I,

1750
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,659
am Joshua Cutchen. And

1751
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:23,819
still Joshua Cutchen, I think.

1752
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,280
And since we've spoken last, I have a

1753
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,440
novel that's out called Them Old Ways Never

1754
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:28,934
Died.

1755
01:02:29,494 --> 01:02:31,675
And I have another nonfiction

1756
01:02:32,135 --> 01:02:34,934
book pending in the spring, hopefully, if everything

1757
01:02:34,934 --> 01:02:36,954
goes well, called 4th Wall Phantoms. It's

1758
01:02:37,255 --> 01:02:40,535
all about fictional incursions entering our reality and

1759
01:02:40,535 --> 01:02:42,855
what that possibly says about the UFO question

1760
01:02:42,855 --> 01:02:45,000
and the spirit question and the cryptozoological

1761
01:02:45,300 --> 01:02:45,800
question.

1762
01:02:46,980 --> 01:02:48,360
I am currently

1763
01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:51,000
available for your viewing pleasure

1764
01:02:51,380 --> 01:02:53,160
in the, documentary, Kosmosis

1765
01:02:54,099 --> 01:02:56,500
that can be found through YouTube, Apple Plus,

1766
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:57,880
and Amazon Prime.

1767
01:02:58,605 --> 01:03:00,844
We are still in preproduction on a documentary

1768
01:03:00,844 --> 01:03:03,405
together, Ryan and I, on the UFO topic.

1769
01:03:03,405 --> 01:03:05,644
So look for some news to continue to

1770
01:03:05,644 --> 01:03:07,344
come out for that in 2025.

1771
01:03:08,204 --> 01:03:10,445
Probably some other TV stuff coming up later

1772
01:03:10,445 --> 01:03:11,965
this year that I'll be making an announcement

1773
01:03:11,965 --> 01:03:14,639
on. But to find out when and if

1774
01:03:14,639 --> 01:03:16,559
that is happening, you can head on over

1775
01:03:16,559 --> 01:03:17,219
to joshuacutchen.com,

1776
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:18,820
joshuacutchin.com,

1777
01:03:22,639 --> 01:03:24,719
and you can track me down on Facebook

1778
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:26,739
and Instagram if you are so inclined.

1779
01:03:27,664 --> 01:03:29,605
Love it. It's like you've done that before,

1780
01:03:29,744 --> 01:03:31,984
but you still miss something. So I'll swoop

1781
01:03:31,984 --> 01:03:33,045
in with an assist

1782
01:03:33,425 --> 01:03:35,445
and say that you even have an NDE

1783
01:03:35,585 --> 01:03:37,664
course that people can take. I do have

1784
01:03:37,664 --> 01:03:40,484
an NDE course, so thank you. You're welcome.

1785
01:03:40,610 --> 01:03:41,730
Part of the reason that it slipped my

1786
01:03:41,730 --> 01:03:43,570
mind is because I actually offered it this

1787
01:03:43,570 --> 01:03:46,150
past spring, but it's available through the Cosmos

1788
01:03:46,210 --> 01:03:46,710
Institute.

1789
01:03:47,489 --> 01:03:49,090
They were so pleased with the result that

1790
01:03:49,090 --> 01:03:50,769
they have actually made it an evergreen course

1791
01:03:50,769 --> 01:03:52,610
and all the classes were recorded. So if

1792
01:03:52,610 --> 01:03:54,050
you're interested in that, you can go over

1793
01:03:54,050 --> 01:03:54,710
to cosmosinstitute.org.

1794
01:03:56,454 --> 01:03:58,155
That's cosmos with a k.

1795
01:03:58,534 --> 01:04:00,534
And, yeah, you can see what you missed

1796
01:04:00,534 --> 01:04:03,174
out on the spring, seeing all of my

1797
01:04:03,174 --> 01:04:03,674
pontificating

1798
01:04:04,135 --> 01:04:06,295
on the NDE. Thank you for reminding me

1799
01:04:06,295 --> 01:04:08,295
of that. Of course. It's what I do.

1800
01:04:08,295 --> 01:04:09,599
I I got too many things going on.

1801
01:04:09,599 --> 01:04:12,000
What can I say? I know. I know.

1802
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,679
Man, makes me feel like I should be

1803
01:04:13,679 --> 01:04:16,639
doing so much more. But anyway, this was

1804
01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:19,279
really great. I super enjoyed talking to you

1805
01:04:19,279 --> 01:04:21,315
guys. We were all over the map, and

1806
01:04:21,315 --> 01:04:23,954
I think that we covered, really important ground.

1807
01:04:23,954 --> 01:04:26,195
So I appreciate it, and I look forward

1808
01:04:26,195 --> 01:04:28,034
to seeing the other projects you do. Take

1809
01:04:28,034 --> 01:04:29,414
care. Thank you.

1810
01:04:32,355 --> 01:04:35,974
Alright. And boom goes the dynamite. Joshua Cutchen,

1811
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,800
always a treat. Ryan Grolick, a nice addition

1812
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:40,619
to the conversation.

1813
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,519
Lady of the Lake, an intriguing decades old

1814
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:47,400
true crime mystery that was only unraveled because

1815
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,660
of the sightings in the years since.

1816
01:04:50,235 --> 01:04:52,494
I enjoyed the film, but I really enjoyed

1817
01:04:52,555 --> 01:04:54,715
the parts of the conversation that got deeper

1818
01:04:54,715 --> 01:04:57,994
into their thoughts on broader topics, like the

1819
01:04:57,994 --> 01:05:01,295
big picture ideas regarding 40 and High Strangeness

1820
01:05:01,595 --> 01:05:02,335
and also

1821
01:05:02,909 --> 01:05:04,929
their thoughts about government disclosure

1822
01:05:05,230 --> 01:05:06,369
and the Cybertruck

1823
01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:07,889
bomber manifesto

1824
01:05:08,429 --> 01:05:08,929
situation.

1825
01:05:09,789 --> 01:05:12,510
Somebody on the higher side chat subreddit actually

1826
01:05:12,510 --> 01:05:15,730
started a thread about the Sean Ryan show

1827
01:05:15,869 --> 01:05:18,755
and their thoughts on that being a genuine

1828
01:05:18,815 --> 01:05:19,315
situation.

1829
01:05:20,174 --> 01:05:21,614
And it made me feel a little bit

1830
01:05:21,614 --> 01:05:23,534
better because I said I kinda doubted it

1831
01:05:23,534 --> 01:05:25,635
in this episode and I just thought, man,

1832
01:05:26,335 --> 01:05:28,835
I'm probably bringing on a lot of unneeded

1833
01:05:29,135 --> 01:05:31,614
heat because that audience is so much bigger

1834
01:05:31,614 --> 01:05:32,514
than my own.

1835
01:05:33,369 --> 01:05:35,609
Apparently, I'm not alone in thinking something was

1836
01:05:35,609 --> 01:05:38,190
fishy with that, and that's good to know.

1837
01:05:38,969 --> 01:05:41,130
So I thought that's when it got extra

1838
01:05:41,130 --> 01:05:44,510
fun, and I try to keep from tainting

1839
01:05:44,730 --> 01:05:46,269
Josh with my conspiracy

1840
01:05:46,570 --> 01:05:49,025
lunacy, but the streams are crossing more and

1841
01:05:49,025 --> 01:05:50,704
more these days. And I'm glad he was

1842
01:05:50,704 --> 01:05:52,464
just willing to indulge me a bit on

1843
01:05:52,464 --> 01:05:52,964
it.

1844
01:05:53,344 --> 01:05:55,664
As is usually the case, the second hour

1845
01:05:55,664 --> 01:05:58,545
really shouldn't be missed especially if you liked

1846
01:05:58,545 --> 01:06:01,469
where we were at the halfway point because

1847
01:06:01,469 --> 01:06:04,050
we got into even crazier stuff from there.

1848
01:06:04,510 --> 01:06:05,969
The nature of true disclosure,

1849
01:06:06,269 --> 01:06:06,769
rituals,

1850
01:06:07,070 --> 01:06:08,610
intention, and collective

1851
01:06:09,150 --> 01:06:09,650
consciousness,

1852
01:06:10,030 --> 01:06:10,530
retrocausality,

1853
01:06:11,309 --> 01:06:12,690
and the future of humanity,

1854
01:06:13,484 --> 01:06:15,664
collapsing world views, new understandings,

1855
01:06:15,964 --> 01:06:19,105
the human experience in the UFO narrative, shamanism

1856
01:06:19,404 --> 01:06:20,144
and stewardship,

1857
01:06:20,444 --> 01:06:22,384
the role of trauma in all this,

1858
01:06:22,764 --> 01:06:25,884
Gertrudeff and the importance of death awareness, and

1859
01:06:25,884 --> 01:06:28,304
living with purpose and active engagement.

1860
01:06:29,460 --> 01:06:32,440
No shortage of good points and little insights.

1861
01:06:32,500 --> 01:06:34,420
Sign up right in the show notes or

1862
01:06:34,420 --> 01:06:35,000
at thehiresidechats.com.

1863
01:06:36,099 --> 01:06:38,420
And THC can keep on being one of

1864
01:06:38,420 --> 01:06:41,780
the last remaining independent and listener supported shows

1865
01:06:41,780 --> 01:06:42,440
out there

1866
01:06:43,074 --> 01:06:45,015
in a very ad heavy world.

1867
01:06:45,954 --> 01:06:47,554
But there is a lot going on out

1868
01:06:47,554 --> 01:06:50,375
there. Lots of recent events and shenanigans

1869
01:06:50,675 --> 01:06:51,974
that need deconstruction,

1870
01:06:52,515 --> 01:06:55,074
and I should've known January would be jam

1871
01:06:55,074 --> 01:06:57,474
packed with all kinds of chaos leading into

1872
01:06:57,474 --> 01:06:58,295
Trump's inauguration.

1873
01:06:59,250 --> 01:07:01,250
But I booked a few guests on very

1874
01:07:01,250 --> 01:07:01,750
specific

1875
01:07:02,130 --> 01:07:02,630
topics

1876
01:07:03,010 --> 01:07:05,409
and I'm super happy with most of them.

1877
01:07:05,409 --> 01:07:07,969
I mean, ancient mysteries and plasma are great,

1878
01:07:07,969 --> 01:07:09,969
but they aren't really the kind of guests

1879
01:07:09,969 --> 01:07:12,275
who are gonna comment on current events. And

1880
01:07:12,275 --> 01:07:14,515
the shit that happened on New Year's Day

1881
01:07:14,515 --> 01:07:15,575
and these fires.

1882
01:07:17,474 --> 01:07:19,954
There is so much to talk about and

1883
01:07:19,954 --> 01:07:21,175
I'm gonna get us

1884
01:07:21,635 --> 01:07:23,635
a few good guests to break down a

1885
01:07:23,635 --> 01:07:25,875
lot of it because there's no shortage of

1886
01:07:25,875 --> 01:07:26,775
things already

1887
01:07:27,559 --> 01:07:29,659
just 12 days into a new year

1888
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:31,340
to talk about.

1889
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:32,860
But I'm probably,

1890
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,900
like usual, not gonna be the fastest

1891
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:36,780
to

1892
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:38,460
break all the news.

1893
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:40,760
But we will be thorough. I can promise

1894
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:41,420
you that.

1895
01:07:41,914 --> 01:07:44,234
But I'll try to be more conscious of

1896
01:07:44,234 --> 01:07:46,714
that and make sure that I always have

1897
01:07:46,714 --> 01:07:47,214
some

1898
01:07:47,755 --> 01:07:49,214
current events, guests

1899
01:07:49,755 --> 01:07:50,655
peppered in

1900
01:07:51,355 --> 01:07:53,195
so that we can be more up to

1901
01:07:53,195 --> 01:07:55,275
date on the news, but it just didn't

1902
01:07:55,275 --> 01:07:55,775
happen

1903
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:57,500
in this first

1904
01:07:58,119 --> 01:07:59,900
couple of weeks of the new year.

1905
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:02,619
But these fires in LA, man,

1906
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,320
there are fires every year but not usually

1907
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:06,140
in January.

1908
01:08:06,599 --> 01:08:08,619
January was usually the wet season.

1909
01:08:09,025 --> 01:08:10,864
People know it doesn't snow there, but we

1910
01:08:10,864 --> 01:08:13,585
would get lots of misty rainy days throughout

1911
01:08:13,585 --> 01:08:14,244
the winters.

1912
01:08:15,025 --> 01:08:16,545
And I don't know where that went. Now

1913
01:08:16,545 --> 01:08:17,364
it's apocalyptic

1914
01:08:17,824 --> 01:08:19,845
fire covering over a 100 acres.

1915
01:08:20,385 --> 01:08:22,164
And, obviously, there's gonna be many

1916
01:08:22,729 --> 01:08:24,650
micro stories in all of that, but I

1917
01:08:24,650 --> 01:08:26,430
did hear 2 that were particularly

1918
01:08:26,890 --> 01:08:27,390
sad.

1919
01:08:28,170 --> 01:08:29,470
1st, the Theosophical

1920
01:08:29,930 --> 01:08:32,810
Society in LA burned down. This was part

1921
01:08:32,810 --> 01:08:33,710
of their statement.

1922
01:08:34,784 --> 01:08:37,444
This was the world's largest archive of Theosophical

1923
01:08:37,824 --> 01:08:40,564
materials, including a library with 40,000

1924
01:08:40,944 --> 01:08:43,664
titles, the entire archive of the history of

1925
01:08:43,664 --> 01:08:44,324
the Theosophical

1926
01:08:44,704 --> 01:08:45,204
Society,

1927
01:08:46,064 --> 01:08:47,524
as well as about 10,000

1928
01:08:47,904 --> 01:08:48,404
unpublished

1929
01:08:48,704 --> 01:08:51,609
letters pertaining to Blavatsky, the Mahatmas,

1930
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:55,429
W. Q. Judge, and several other people I'm

1931
01:08:55,429 --> 01:08:56,489
unfamiliar with,

1932
01:08:57,029 --> 01:08:59,770
as well as membership records since 18/75,

1933
01:09:00,869 --> 01:09:03,210
art objects, and countless other irreplaceable

1934
01:09:03,670 --> 01:09:04,170
materials.

1935
01:09:05,244 --> 01:09:07,985
The archives also contain works of Baum,

1936
01:09:08,685 --> 01:09:09,185
Gichol,

1937
01:09:09,725 --> 01:09:12,925
donations from the King of Siam, including rare

1938
01:09:12,925 --> 01:09:15,265
Buddhist scriptures, and so on.

1939
01:09:16,604 --> 01:09:18,784
Really sad to hear that. Lots of history

1940
01:09:19,005 --> 01:09:20,545
lost. We don't like that.

1941
01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:23,140
And it's a shame they didn't have a

1942
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,460
digital archive of this stuff.

1943
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:28,320
Not really a new idea, but hindsight is

1944
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:28,820
2020.

1945
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,659
Obviously, I greatly prefer a library of

1946
01:09:33,105 --> 01:09:36,385
original materials, but a digitized archive is a

1947
01:09:36,385 --> 01:09:36,885
nice

1948
01:09:37,585 --> 01:09:39,925
plan b for situations like this.

1949
01:09:40,625 --> 01:09:42,625
And then the second sad story I heard

1950
01:09:42,625 --> 01:09:45,425
is that Maja, our last guest, has lost

1951
01:09:45,425 --> 01:09:47,399
her home and everything in it.

1952
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,279
There's a GoFundMe you can find on my

1953
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:54,140
Twitter, but just another sad story out of

1954
01:09:54,199 --> 01:09:55,260
what is 1,000.

1955
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:56,380
Again,

1956
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,239
we will make time to cover all that

1957
01:09:59,239 --> 01:10:02,039
in detail soon with a great return guest,

1958
01:10:02,039 --> 01:10:04,654
but the hits just keep on coming in

1959
01:10:04,654 --> 01:10:05,154
2025.

1960
01:10:06,255 --> 01:10:07,774
Either way, I got a lot out of

1961
01:10:07,774 --> 01:10:08,515
this interview.

1962
01:10:09,295 --> 01:10:11,154
It is hard to make

1963
01:10:11,935 --> 01:10:13,314
40 and high strangeness

1964
01:10:13,935 --> 01:10:15,234
shows fresh,

1965
01:10:15,630 --> 01:10:17,390
but there is a good way to do

1966
01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:19,229
it and a deeper way to do it.

1967
01:10:19,229 --> 01:10:21,010
And I think with Josh Cutchen,

1968
01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:23,090
you're always gonna get there.

1969
01:10:23,550 --> 01:10:25,070
I know I said that I didn't find

1970
01:10:25,070 --> 01:10:28,110
the whole feelings connection aspect to be the

1971
01:10:28,110 --> 01:10:29,570
most exciting conclusion.

1972
01:10:30,335 --> 01:10:32,335
I'm just being honest about that, but I

1973
01:10:32,335 --> 01:10:33,954
do want the true conclusion.

1974
01:10:34,895 --> 01:10:37,534
I wanna understand the phenomenon as it is,

1975
01:10:37,534 --> 01:10:39,614
not as I wish it were because it's

1976
01:10:39,614 --> 01:10:41,875
more exciting to think it's disembodied

1977
01:10:42,255 --> 01:10:43,395
separate beings.

1978
01:10:44,010 --> 01:10:45,850
The more I learn, the more it does

1979
01:10:45,850 --> 01:10:48,250
seem that these things are deeply personal and

1980
01:10:48,250 --> 01:10:50,989
maybe even emerge from within an individual.

1981
01:10:51,930 --> 01:10:54,029
There might even be a set of circumstances

1982
01:10:54,329 --> 01:10:56,170
that all have to line up, and only

1983
01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:58,010
one of them is the emotional state of

1984
01:10:58,010 --> 01:10:59,710
the individual. It's hard to say.

1985
01:11:00,225 --> 01:11:02,145
But I like to think that we had

1986
01:11:02,145 --> 01:11:05,345
this conversation at a high level, especially as

1987
01:11:05,345 --> 01:11:06,324
it went on.

1988
01:11:07,104 --> 01:11:09,744
With the lady of the lake situation in

1989
01:11:09,744 --> 01:11:11,125
this instance in particular,

1990
01:11:11,985 --> 01:11:14,645
it's got a very 6th sense vibe. Right?

1991
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,840
She won't move on until the story is

1992
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,260
told. The unfinished business is complete.

1993
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,460
But her body was recovered and the sightings

1994
01:11:22,519 --> 01:11:23,019
remain.

1995
01:11:23,559 --> 01:11:25,399
I can't remember the exact number now, but

1996
01:11:25,399 --> 01:11:27,559
there was what? Dozens of more people that

1997
01:11:27,559 --> 01:11:29,175
were thought to have died in the lake?

1998
01:11:29,255 --> 01:11:30,795
Maybe there's more than one lady.

1999
01:11:31,494 --> 01:11:34,054
Certainly an interesting story, and I know true

2000
01:11:34,054 --> 01:11:37,094
crime isn't our thing usually, but I'll take

2001
01:11:37,094 --> 01:11:38,854
any reason I can to talk to the

2002
01:11:38,854 --> 01:11:39,354
Kutchmeister.

2003
01:11:40,534 --> 01:11:41,354
And I considered

2004
01:11:42,010 --> 01:11:44,109
the story to be a bit more interesting

2005
01:11:44,170 --> 01:11:45,469
because of the archetypal

2006
01:11:45,850 --> 01:11:46,350
overlap.

2007
01:11:47,130 --> 01:11:49,449
Even in previous episodes, I know Josh has

2008
01:11:49,449 --> 01:11:51,449
told a couple of Lady of the Lake

2009
01:11:51,449 --> 01:11:51,949
stories.

2010
01:11:52,729 --> 01:11:54,569
I guess it's just one of those grooves,

2011
01:11:54,569 --> 01:11:55,229
you know.

2012
01:11:55,734 --> 01:11:57,814
But as for the last show, yes, with

2013
01:11:57,814 --> 01:12:00,935
Maja, it was a pretty mixed bag according

2014
01:12:00,935 --> 01:12:01,835
to Plus members.

2015
01:12:02,534 --> 01:12:04,774
She was kind enough to jump into the

2016
01:12:04,774 --> 01:12:07,255
comments herself and navigate the good, bad, and

2017
01:12:07,255 --> 01:12:09,840
the ugly there. But the rating came in

2018
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:10,819
at a 4.2.

2019
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,439
Not the greatest. I don't worry if we're

2020
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:14,659
still above 4,

2021
01:12:15,279 --> 01:12:17,840
but it's clear people had strong feelings. Those

2022
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:19,760
who liked it really liked it and those

2023
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,739
who didn't were not shy about saying so.

2024
01:12:23,355 --> 01:12:25,595
Maybe it was a little bit broad, but

2025
01:12:25,595 --> 01:12:27,595
she's someone who has had this connection to

2026
01:12:27,595 --> 01:12:30,475
the field from a young age, going out

2027
01:12:30,475 --> 01:12:33,755
of body because of fevers, knowing that the

2028
01:12:33,755 --> 01:12:36,895
material world was only half the story.

2029
01:12:37,869 --> 01:12:40,130
That set her up for a really interesting

2030
01:12:40,190 --> 01:12:42,369
life and a deeper connection

2031
01:12:42,670 --> 01:12:44,369
to the field, and we explored

2032
01:12:44,670 --> 01:12:46,130
different aspects of that.

2033
01:12:46,909 --> 01:12:49,810
And sensing that entanglement with spirits,

2034
01:12:50,145 --> 01:12:51,984
I mean, you know, you heard it, but

2035
01:12:51,984 --> 01:12:53,364
I was kinda surprised

2036
01:12:54,225 --> 01:12:55,284
that it was a 4.2.

2037
01:12:56,465 --> 01:12:59,045
Regardless of how you feel about our conversation,

2038
01:12:59,265 --> 01:13:01,664
to have such a devastating thing happen so

2039
01:13:01,664 --> 01:13:02,564
soon after,

2040
01:13:04,170 --> 01:13:06,510
Man, thoughts and prayers. Right, guys?

2041
01:13:07,609 --> 01:13:08,970
I guess there's not a lot more to

2042
01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:10,649
say. I realize it is a bit of

2043
01:13:10,649 --> 01:13:12,649
a slow start for us in this new

2044
01:13:12,649 --> 01:13:13,149
year,

2045
01:13:13,689 --> 01:13:16,250
but my editor has 2 shows in the

2046
01:13:16,250 --> 01:13:18,864
pipeline right now. He's moving as quickly as

2047
01:13:18,864 --> 01:13:20,725
he can. I'm recording again tomorrow.

2048
01:13:21,505 --> 01:13:23,045
I mentioned this, but

2049
01:13:23,744 --> 01:13:25,744
I was sick. My 2 kids were sick.

2050
01:13:25,744 --> 01:13:27,905
My wife was sick. And none of it

2051
01:13:27,905 --> 01:13:28,405
overlapped

2052
01:13:28,945 --> 01:13:30,805
exactly perfectly. So

2053
01:13:31,289 --> 01:13:33,449
the last half of December wasn't great. So

2054
01:13:33,449 --> 01:13:35,609
we're still just trying to get back up

2055
01:13:35,609 --> 01:13:37,789
on our feet in the Carlwood household.

2056
01:13:38,569 --> 01:13:41,229
And with the production chain of this show,

2057
01:13:41,929 --> 01:13:44,090
when I'm doing a really work heavy couple

2058
01:13:44,090 --> 01:13:45,625
of weeks, it takes a while for you

2059
01:13:45,625 --> 01:13:48,024
to notice as it does take a couple

2060
01:13:48,024 --> 01:13:50,284
of weeks for you to notice that I

2061
01:13:50,585 --> 01:13:51,804
lightened my load.

2062
01:13:52,344 --> 01:13:54,425
But wheels are in motion, and it's gonna

2063
01:13:54,425 --> 01:13:56,824
be a more action packed second half of

2064
01:13:56,824 --> 01:13:58,289
the month, it looks like. But let's do

2065
01:13:58,289 --> 01:14:00,530
the meetup calendar thing, as we tend to

2066
01:14:00,530 --> 01:14:01,030
do.

2067
01:14:01,409 --> 01:14:04,449
I'm recording this on January 12th. January 11th

2068
01:14:04,449 --> 01:14:06,289
was our big day with, like, 5 or

2069
01:14:06,289 --> 01:14:08,229
6 events. I hope they went well.

2070
01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:11,569
January 13th, we got one in Miami at

2071
01:14:11,569 --> 01:14:12,869
Lincoln's Beard Brewery.

2072
01:14:13,364 --> 01:14:17,465
January 25th, Allentown, Pennsylvania, McCall Collective Brewery.

2073
01:14:18,005 --> 01:14:21,704
February 1st, Conway, Washington, Conway's Pub.

2074
01:14:22,085 --> 01:14:23,944
The locals might've liked this episode.

2075
01:14:24,484 --> 01:14:27,444
February 3rd, Auckland, New Zealand, Gale Brath's Ale

2076
01:14:27,444 --> 01:14:28,904
House. February 8th,

2077
01:14:29,340 --> 01:14:30,640
Baringsville, Pennsylvania.

2078
01:14:31,180 --> 01:14:32,560
McCall Collective Taphouse.

2079
01:14:33,739 --> 01:14:34,399
Two places

2080
01:14:34,699 --> 01:14:36,880
called McCall's in Pennsylvania,

2081
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:39,899
but in 2 different cities. I don't know

2082
01:14:39,899 --> 01:14:40,640
about that.

2083
01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:43,074
Locals can probably sort it out. But go

2084
01:14:43,074 --> 01:14:45,175
to the meetup calendar, higher side meetups.com,

2085
01:14:45,795 --> 01:14:47,974
for more information on any of these events

2086
01:14:48,755 --> 01:14:49,974
or to make your own.

2087
01:14:50,354 --> 01:14:52,514
And Gordon and I will be having our

2088
01:14:52,514 --> 01:14:53,974
event here in Tampa

2089
01:14:54,274 --> 01:14:55,414
on March 8th.

2090
01:14:56,020 --> 01:14:58,899
We are still narrowing down the venue, but

2091
01:14:58,899 --> 01:15:00,039
that is the date.

2092
01:15:00,739 --> 01:15:02,100
I think we're gonna do what we did

2093
01:15:02,100 --> 01:15:03,639
in Austin, which is

2094
01:15:04,420 --> 01:15:06,659
not charge for the event at all. No

2095
01:15:06,659 --> 01:15:07,639
ticket price.

2096
01:15:08,114 --> 01:15:10,034
But we keep it to the inner circle

2097
01:15:10,034 --> 01:15:12,215
of paid members as a thank you.

2098
01:15:12,835 --> 01:15:15,314
I feel like if you keep me and

2099
01:15:15,314 --> 01:15:17,954
Gordon going with a subscription to what we

2100
01:15:17,954 --> 01:15:18,454
do,

2101
01:15:19,234 --> 01:15:21,510
then this can be considered an added bonus

2102
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:24,969
because you really do keep our lives running.

2103
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:26,789
So we're gonna be doing a lot of

2104
01:15:26,789 --> 01:15:29,189
hanging out and mingling as we do, but

2105
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:31,349
then we will also do a live interview

2106
01:15:31,349 --> 01:15:32,090
kind of thing.

2107
01:15:32,789 --> 01:15:35,429
Recorded, of course, 4 plus members who can't

2108
01:15:35,429 --> 01:15:36,090
make it.

2109
01:15:36,425 --> 01:15:38,265
And we got a pretty good topic lined

2110
01:15:38,265 --> 01:15:40,904
up. I'm pretty excited about it. It will

2111
01:15:40,904 --> 01:15:42,845
be good to see him again. It's been

2112
01:15:43,545 --> 01:15:44,204
a while.

2113
01:15:44,664 --> 01:15:46,664
In fact, maybe I haven't seen him since

2114
01:15:46,664 --> 01:15:49,385
the Austin event. I know I certainly haven't

2115
01:15:49,385 --> 01:15:50,204
gone anywhere.

2116
01:15:50,940 --> 01:15:53,260
But that is, the show. That's about all

2117
01:15:53,260 --> 01:15:55,420
she wrote. Thanks for listening. Check out the

2118
01:15:55,420 --> 01:15:57,360
film if you think it's your thang.

2119
01:15:58,220 --> 01:16:01,180
You will find more from Ryan at Creepy

2120
01:16:01,180 --> 01:16:04,300
Kingdom, and of course, Josh is as active

2121
01:16:04,300 --> 01:16:06,079
as ever, and his books are

2122
01:16:06,655 --> 01:16:07,395
top shelf.

2123
01:16:07,695 --> 01:16:09,295
Big thanks to both of them for taking

2124
01:16:09,295 --> 01:16:09,954
the time.

2125
01:16:10,335 --> 01:16:12,255
Thanks to you for listening. Try to keep

2126
01:16:12,255 --> 01:16:13,954
your head on straight out there.

2127
01:16:14,414 --> 01:16:16,975
That's it for me. I've done my part.

2128
01:16:16,975 --> 01:16:19,795
Your move, trickster beans, disclosure, disseminators,

2129
01:16:20,095 --> 01:16:21,155
and lake ladies.

2130
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,020
Your fucking

2131
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:23,980
move.

2132
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,220
Roads wind around the redwoods,

2133
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,060
circling the water's edge.

2134
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:33,420
Many

2135
01:16:34,255 --> 01:16:35,715
mysteries to see,

2136
01:16:36,654 --> 01:16:37,875
at least the visitors

2137
01:16:38,895 --> 01:16:39,395
allege.

2138
01:16:40,975 --> 01:16:41,475
Elemental

2139
01:16:42,734 --> 01:16:43,234
sprites

2140
01:16:43,534 --> 01:16:44,274
and hairy

2141
01:16:44,654 --> 01:16:46,435
beasts might manifest,

2142
01:16:47,869 --> 01:16:50,530
But one legend's most persistent

2143
01:16:51,149 --> 01:16:51,649
standing

2144
01:16:52,189 --> 01:16:54,449
out above the rest,

2145
01:16:54,909 --> 01:16:56,609
the lady of the lake.

2146
01:16:58,350 --> 01:16:59,170
She sometimes

2147
01:17:01,755 --> 01:17:02,255
appears

2148
01:17:02,635 --> 01:17:04,015
a ghostly woman

2149
01:17:04,954 --> 01:17:05,854
in white

2150
01:17:06,235 --> 01:17:07,695
orphaned and tears.

2151
01:17:09,675 --> 01:17:10,975
An unexpected

2152
01:17:11,675 --> 01:17:12,175
death,

2153
01:17:13,275 --> 01:17:15,569
a secret still unknown.

2154
01:17:17,329 --> 01:17:20,710
Alone. Break the case back open. Send

2155
01:17:21,250 --> 01:17:22,550
her home.

2156
01:17:41,795 --> 01:17:43,220
What's the connection

2157
01:17:44,079 --> 01:17:44,579
between

2158
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:45,380
violent

2159
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:46,340
tragedy

2160
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,659
and the strange reported

2161
01:17:51,199 --> 01:17:52,739
sightings of imprinted

2162
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:53,940
energy?

2163
01:17:56,595 --> 01:17:57,655
Maybe it's

2164
01:17:58,034 --> 01:18:00,855
tied up in how you

2165
01:18:01,315 --> 01:18:01,815
feel.

2166
01:18:02,435 --> 01:18:03,975
The more you ask,

2167
01:18:04,275 --> 01:18:05,895
the more you wonder

2168
01:18:06,355 --> 01:18:07,975
what is even real.

2169
01:18:09,475 --> 01:18:11,670
The lady of the lake,

2170
01:18:13,250 --> 01:18:14,229
she sometimes

2171
01:18:14,609 --> 01:18:15,109
appears

2172
01:18:17,170 --> 01:18:18,149
a ghostly

2173
01:18:18,449 --> 01:18:18,949
woman

2174
01:18:19,810 --> 01:18:22,630
in white, often in tears.

2175
01:18:36,023 --> 01:18:36,523
Her

2176
01:18:39,796 --> 01:18:40,296
home.