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Hello,

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free first hour subscribers.

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Greg Carl would here and over the years,

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some of the main things I've heard about

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the full 2 hour plus show and the

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membership are things like, oh, I've been meaning

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to sign up for a long time, but

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have just been lazy.

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Or that the first hour sounds so good

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and complete that it's hard to feel like

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you're missing that much or assess the value

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of a second hour.

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Basically the old adage you don't know what

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you're missing. And I understand that point, I

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don't really like to tease things in that

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sort of way feels too s salesman.

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So I thought about how I could address

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that. What I might be able to do

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to convince more free listeners that it's worth

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converting over for. And there really is no

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better way to do that than showing free

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listeners what a plus show is like or

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how much more a second hour might contain.

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And that is my plan here at least

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for a while and we'll see how it

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works out for me. 1 older plus show

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in the free show feed every month, at

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the end of the month as a sort

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of peek behind the plus curtain.

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Because people who are members here full 2

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hour interviews in a single file. It's a

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little different from the way, other people in

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this space, do it, where they split the

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hours into 2 separate files.

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To me, as a listener, that's annoying. It's

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like flipping a tape from side a to

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side b. I don't really wanna deal with

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that when I'm in the middle of something

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else. Just keep it going. So also a

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waste of the listener time to hear 2

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wrap ups and 2

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introductions trying to get back into the vibe.

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So that's why I do it like I

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do it. It does confuse people sometimes,

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which means that for these free feed sample

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episodes, If you feel like what you're hearing

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is too fresh in your memory,

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skip ahead about 50 minutes and just pick

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up from there,

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and you can be pretty sure that you're

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hearing all the plus show content.

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My process has always been find a natural

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sounding cut point about halfway in,

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Make a chop,

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and then tack on the whole, tell us

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where we can get more links, etcetera

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section that is always at the end of

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a full interview. If you're trying to work

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it out in your head, that's how I

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do it. With that said, I'm trying to

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choose episodes that I have fond memories of,

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even if the material isn't a hundred percent

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fresh my mind and ones that are also

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on some of the more timeless subjects.

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No point rehash some old political thing or

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a previous years, astrology.

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And just going by that, gives me tons

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of great shows to choose from. I hope

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you enjoy this new process. I hope it

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gives new life to older episodes and re

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highlight some of the amazing guests I've been

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lucky enough to have. And, of course, if

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you end up thinking damn. That was good.

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That was more satisfying than just the normal

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free show. Maybe it is worth 8 dollars

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a month. Well, then I would hope that

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you do pull the trigger.

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I mean, why try to make it something

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else? That is the goal here.

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So I think everyone wins with this free

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plus show a month plan

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If you wanna know why I picked this

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episode and the date it originally aired to

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add that to the show notes right along

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with the easy plus sign up links. If

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you wanna start that 7 day free trial.

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If you want plus through Spotify, use the

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Patreon link.

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Otherwise, use the main 1. Thanks. And enjoy.

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The plan is something masters almost surely have

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a plan this clearly maybe something near beyond

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the realm of man and until you felony

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tested every last just.

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Upon the more you think you know the

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you really do. That's true.

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Where would we

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Alright. Fireside side chatter. It's no secret that

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the cons crowd has made many claims about

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the Capstone Cabal and the ruling elite class

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of past and present.

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Claims that range from a fascination with a

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cult art, securing power through magic and making

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dark packs with demonic multi dimensional entities, 2

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selective breeding carefully preserving blood lines and even

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that these psychopathic power players have some type

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of rep origin that might make them only

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half human.

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And as we know, it's very hard to

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find the smoking gun for these sorts of

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clams, and we're left with the analysis of

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small bread breadcrumbs, strange symbolism and the occasional

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promote notion of ideas and motifs that seem

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completely foreign to anything we would recognize in

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the mainstream.

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Well folks, it seems like a fifteenth century

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relic known as the Solo bush at tara

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has broken free of its carefully maintained chain

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of custody behind the curtain as an ari

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class magical heir room to find itself on

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display in a Milan museum in modern times

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and wouldn't you know, it contains aspects of

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nearly all of those os so strange

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claims.

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Lucky for us, though the royal worldview is

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carefully kept close to the chest and putting

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such a relic in its proper context seems

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like a monumental task,

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Today's guest, Peter Mark Adams is a brilliant

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Iso esoteric sc t expert professional energy worker

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and a cult symbol decoder that seriously dedicated

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himself to unpacking this steep es esoteric artifact

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fully drenched in the demi and has released

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his analysis and conclusions in an epic and

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beautiful book titled the game of Saturn.

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It's 1 of the most impressive pieces of

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work that I've seen in some time. The

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implications are damn or unbelievable and I can't

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wait to get down to it. A serious

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honor and a pleasure, a master of his

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craft, Peter Mark Adams welcome to the higher

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side.

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Hi there, Greg. Lovely to talk to you.

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Yeah, man. I'm so happy to have you

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here. Scarlet Imprint always seems to work with

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amazing authors, and I'm really impressed with this

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book. Something that... Yeah. I mean, it is

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something I don't think I could put together

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if my life depended on it, Know It's

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so really kudos to you. Thank you so

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much.

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And You know, to kick this off, we

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really have to break this down for people,

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but we're talking about an elaborate

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illustrated and decorated deck of cards that matches

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the struck sure of a classic taro deck

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dating back to the Italian renaissance, I guess

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it's the oldest known deck of its type

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in existence, but you call it a Tu,

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because outside of that same basic structure, it

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doesn't really have much else in common with

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traditional taro, is that right?

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That's right. There's about 3 cards.

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In the deck that have a kind of

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passing similarity to the cards you'd would expect

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to see amongst the trump's in a modern

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deck. But apart from that, everything else is

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utterly unique.

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And it was that fact actually, which really

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got me turned on to the task of

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trying to figure out

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why they've gone to such extraordinary

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cost,

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investment of time,

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the use of a,

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Renaissance master and engrave.

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And yet the thing didn't make any sense.

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So there's some... Had to be something going

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on here, which I couldn't figure out, and

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that really led me on down the rabbit

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hole. To be honest. I I started to

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disappear from. Day to day living as I

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got en in this thing, you know? Yeah.

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And eventually, I was working like

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hours a day, those 7 days a week.

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It took me about 3 years to break

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into the decks

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heavily coded

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multi layered symbolism.

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Mh.

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That's so provocative, And the artwork on the

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cards, they depict everything from

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barely innocent looking figures to d

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and holding babies over fire pits. Yeah. But

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I guess, what about the artwork is so

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special not only from a content perspective, but

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a historical 1 as well.

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Yeah. I mean, this is the first...

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It's the earliest complete t that exists. That's

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1 thing.

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Secondly, it's

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been done by this renaissance master and engrave.

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So the the quality is absolutely superb.

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And those 2 factors alone

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set the deck apart from pretty well everything

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else.

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The third factor though,

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it has no Christian

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imagery or symbolism a minute it whatsoever.

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And that is that is really exceptional. I

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mean, I can't think of another taro deck

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in existence that doesn't include certain

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aspects of the

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Christian

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theology.

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Right.

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I found that strange as well because I'm

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a little bit familiar with the taro, and

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there's always that final judgment card at least,

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which is a very christian thing.

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That's it. And there's nothing like that in

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this deck. And again, that was another

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of the factors that drove me to

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try and figure out what the heck is

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going on with this thing.

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There's another fact Du Well greg, which is

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really strange with this deck,

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despite being a masterpiece a piece of Renaissance

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art has no proven whatsoever.

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And, like, providence is everything in the art

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game?

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Where did it come from?

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Where did it originate? Who is whose hands

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as been in, because this is a deck

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of cards that survived in intact for 500

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years.

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And nobody knows where it's being poor. At

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least 300 of those years.

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So there's a lot of mysteries. There's a

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lot of locked boxes

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and it's like the wet dream for the

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ec esoteric research, you know? Absolutely.

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I can't claim to have cracked the whole

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thing. III think I got most of the

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Trump and court cards

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decode,

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but there's a sub substantial a number of

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suit cards that still require work.

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There's more to come.

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Always.

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And so you know, the main purpose of

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a typical to row is definition, But is

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there an indication that that is

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not the same purpose here? Or is this

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just a different form of definition.

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I think people have always used different

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things around them for d purposes, you know,

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whether it's

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coffee grounds or or what.

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The original decks were created for gaming.

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That's where the the taro came from. But

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of course, because of the imagery because of

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its symbolic nature, it lends itself 2 other

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uses

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specifically to d nation.

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I think that's...

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If I'm gonna to, like, jump to the

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core of the thing, what we're faced with

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here is something like an elite grim

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of surgical

270
00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:48,114
draco magic.

271
00:10:49,233 --> 00:10:51,730
Okay? If I just, like sum up the

272
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,457
endpoint of my research. And the question therefore

273
00:10:55,457 --> 00:10:57,044
is where did it come from?

274
00:10:57,838 --> 00:10:58,711
How was it used?

275
00:10:59,919 --> 00:11:02,156
And what was the intent of the designer,

276
00:11:02,476 --> 00:11:04,713
mh, in putting this thing together?

277
00:11:06,071 --> 00:11:07,051
Because it illuminate

278
00:11:07,922 --> 00:11:10,944
an aspect of the modern conspiracy world, this

279
00:11:10,944 --> 00:11:14,204
this notion of a cult of saturn. Yes.

280
00:11:14,682 --> 00:11:17,147
It illuminate the origins of this thing.

281
00:11:18,036 --> 00:11:20,205
Which before now has been very ne.

282
00:11:21,057 --> 00:11:23,600
Right. And it is such a amazing piece

283
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,405
of history and amazing artifact for that reason

284
00:11:26,954 --> 00:11:28,231
And I guess I would also ask you,

285
00:11:28,311 --> 00:11:29,747
because you're not the first person to look

286
00:11:29,747 --> 00:11:31,264
at this deck? What can you tell us

287
00:11:31,264 --> 00:11:32,642
about some of the theories

288
00:11:33,099 --> 00:11:35,036
about the deck and why it was created

289
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:37,264
before you came along, the things that you

290
00:11:37,264 --> 00:11:37,504
dismiss.

291
00:11:38,541 --> 00:11:38,781
Well,

292
00:11:39,898 --> 00:11:42,133
the obvious thing is that, you know, 9

293
00:11:42,133 --> 00:11:43,511
of the Trump cards

294
00:11:43,982 --> 00:11:47,245
depict figures connected with Roman Republican history.

295
00:11:48,518 --> 00:11:50,985
So it's easy to dismiss the whole deck

296
00:11:50,985 --> 00:11:52,338
as an educational deck.

297
00:11:53,309 --> 00:11:56,100
But as an explanation, it just doesn't stand

298
00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:56,259
up.

299
00:11:57,216 --> 00:11:59,210
How about the other, you know, trump cards?

300
00:11:59,449 --> 00:12:01,442
How about all the court cards and the,

301
00:12:01,602 --> 00:12:01,921
you know,

302
00:12:02,812 --> 00:12:04,245
suit cards. So, you know,

303
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:05,859
the obvious

304
00:12:06,473 --> 00:12:07,689
explanation is too fa

305
00:12:09,019 --> 00:12:09,519
to

306
00:12:10,388 --> 00:12:13,337
suggests that it's an educational deck also doesn't

307
00:12:13,337 --> 00:12:15,888
take account of the homo erotic elements in

308
00:12:15,888 --> 00:12:19,353
its imagery. Mh. You know, it's a Christian

309
00:12:19,811 --> 00:12:20,210
stance,

310
00:12:21,168 --> 00:12:22,866
and the fact that the

311
00:12:23,803 --> 00:12:26,538
Trump cards that appear to name Roman

312
00:12:27,076 --> 00:12:27,576
figures

313
00:12:28,446 --> 00:12:29,581
have been spelled

314
00:12:30,114 --> 00:12:31,328
in such a way

315
00:12:32,019 --> 00:12:33,790
that you cannot immediately

316
00:12:34,163 --> 00:12:35,672
identify any particular person.

317
00:12:36,324 --> 00:12:38,242
Okay. The Romans had a thing called the

318
00:12:38,402 --> 00:12:41,059
Jen's, it was like a family name. And

319
00:12:41,198 --> 00:12:42,257
because the

320
00:12:42,796 --> 00:12:43,855
Roman elite

321
00:12:44,409 --> 00:12:46,883
was governed by a very small number of

322
00:12:46,883 --> 00:12:49,517
families for a period of, like 500 years.

323
00:12:50,315 --> 00:12:52,491
The jen's doesn't give you any

324
00:12:53,443 --> 00:12:56,236
indication of of which member of the family,

325
00:12:57,115 --> 00:13:00,227
within that 500 years, you know, who it

326
00:13:00,227 --> 00:13:01,105
could be. Mh.

327
00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,092
So again, it it doesn't actually fulfill an

328
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:06,461
educational purpose on that score either.

329
00:13:07,179 --> 00:13:09,512
The other explanation is that it's another

330
00:13:10,542 --> 00:13:13,015
Wedding present, a kind of sump wedding present

331
00:13:13,015 --> 00:13:13,835
like the Vis

332
00:13:14,212 --> 00:13:17,059
sports deck. But again, the home rot

333
00:13:17,818 --> 00:13:20,295
imagery, the baby getting cooked over the fire,

334
00:13:21,254 --> 00:13:23,671
scenes of emulation and d.

335
00:13:26,225 --> 00:13:28,064
That'll be some wedding present. Right? Right,

336
00:13:30,064 --> 00:13:32,485
as good instead you wouldn't be invited back

337
00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:36,142
true. So they're the main lines that have

338
00:13:36,142 --> 00:13:36,642
been

339
00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:39,953
attempted to explain the imagery in this deck

340
00:13:39,953 --> 00:13:41,302
and and they don't really work.

341
00:13:41,874 --> 00:13:43,868
Mh. So there has to be a deep

342
00:13:43,868 --> 00:13:46,123
game going on. And another

343
00:13:46,659 --> 00:13:49,292
foundational thing that we should probably discuss with

344
00:13:49,292 --> 00:13:51,659
people or discuss 4 people is that

345
00:13:52,176 --> 00:13:53,606
there's also something that should be said about

346
00:13:53,606 --> 00:13:56,387
the historical context, like not only the politics

347
00:13:56,387 --> 00:13:58,794
of the time, but the attitudes about magical

348
00:13:58,850 --> 00:14:00,853
ritual and practice. This kinda speaks to those

349
00:14:00,853 --> 00:14:02,927
home erotic elements you mentioned. But what do

350
00:14:02,927 --> 00:14:04,761
you think is important for people to know

351
00:14:04,761 --> 00:14:05,979
in that regard

352
00:14:06,357 --> 00:14:08,351
to place this back in its proper context

353
00:14:08,351 --> 00:14:09,547
of when it was actually made.

354
00:14:10,599 --> 00:14:12,677
Okay. I mean, if we're gonna turn the

355
00:14:12,677 --> 00:14:14,215
clock back to fifteenth century

356
00:14:14,914 --> 00:14:15,633
Renaissance Europe,

357
00:14:16,112 --> 00:14:17,870
and specifically to Italy,

358
00:14:18,602 --> 00:14:19,102
Magic

359
00:14:19,477 --> 00:14:21,567
in 1 form or other was pervasive

360
00:14:22,021 --> 00:14:23,953
at every level of society

361
00:14:24,804 --> 00:14:27,610
from the kind of folk healing

362
00:14:28,477 --> 00:14:30,329
folk witchcraft and

363
00:14:30,703 --> 00:14:33,667
Carlo Ginsburg has done excellent work in documenting

364
00:14:34,678 --> 00:14:35,973
some of the long lived

365
00:14:36,282 --> 00:14:39,535
pagan witchcraft movements in Italy, the Be

366
00:14:40,091 --> 00:14:42,733
In the north of Italy. We have the

367
00:14:42,947 --> 00:14:44,240
possession cult of Tar

368
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:46,305
small in the south of Italy.

369
00:14:47,503 --> 00:14:49,977
And on top of this, you have a

370
00:14:49,977 --> 00:14:50,956
layer of

371
00:14:51,334 --> 00:14:52,930
what I would call Grim war Magic.

372
00:14:53,821 --> 00:14:56,045
So that you find clerical scholars,

373
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,268
students, monks, priests,

374
00:14:59,301 --> 00:14:59,801
specializing

375
00:15:00,254 --> 00:15:00,754
in

376
00:15:01,286 --> 00:15:02,557
ritual magic for hire.

377
00:15:03,526 --> 00:15:05,436
Okay? So if you have any problems, you

378
00:15:05,436 --> 00:15:07,346
go to them and and they that, you

379
00:15:07,346 --> 00:15:09,972
know, that you need a demon exercising or

380
00:15:09,972 --> 00:15:11,821
you wanna summon on a demon and send

381
00:15:11,821 --> 00:15:14,635
it against someone. The use of a tax.

382
00:15:15,491 --> 00:15:17,326
These would be the go to people for

383
00:15:17,326 --> 00:15:17,646
that.

384
00:15:18,379 --> 00:15:20,076
And we have excellence

385
00:15:20,613 --> 00:15:22,070
testimony from the in

386
00:15:22,448 --> 00:15:22,948
records

387
00:15:23,326 --> 00:15:24,943
for Modern and Bo.

388
00:15:26,371 --> 00:15:28,779
Which demonstrate that these priests

389
00:15:29,393 --> 00:15:32,017
the ones who were recognized as wielding a

390
00:15:32,017 --> 00:15:34,902
lot of power in terms of demonic magic

391
00:15:35,198 --> 00:15:35,698
with

392
00:15:36,088 --> 00:15:38,159
very carefully protected by the elite.

393
00:15:38,876 --> 00:15:42,381
Mh. Their major sponsors were the elite families

394
00:15:42,381 --> 00:15:44,395
in fact, and and whenever an in

395
00:15:44,771 --> 00:15:46,770
attempted to take 1 to court,

396
00:15:47,483 --> 00:15:50,179
have them def f or whatever they could

397
00:15:50,179 --> 00:15:53,129
do against them. The elite families always stepped

398
00:15:53,129 --> 00:15:56,009
in and put the case aside. So there

399
00:15:56,009 --> 00:15:58,669
they were well protected at the highest levels

400
00:15:59,129 --> 00:16:01,209
of the Renaissance society.

401
00:16:01,769 --> 00:16:04,359
Right. So the That's pretty well the pyramid

402
00:16:04,576 --> 00:16:06,270
as it were, the background

403
00:16:07,363 --> 00:16:11,559
into which this deck, which actually illustrates another

404
00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:13,458
strand and stream of magic

405
00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:15,195
coming from the east,

406
00:16:15,834 --> 00:16:19,325
entered into and merged with. Mh. Yes. That

407
00:16:19,524 --> 00:16:22,161
background makes it all the more provocative. And

408
00:16:22,161 --> 00:16:24,318
when it comes to the dex influences and

409
00:16:24,318 --> 00:16:26,875
the worldview and ideas that it seems to

410
00:16:26,875 --> 00:16:27,375
contain

411
00:16:27,769 --> 00:16:29,759
You kinda break it down into 3 parts

412
00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:31,430
because it can get pretty complex, but you

413
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:32,726
talk about the dex cosmology.

414
00:16:33,261 --> 00:16:35,823
It's meta physics, and it's ritual, use I

415
00:16:35,823 --> 00:16:37,971
think that's a pretty clear way to talk

416
00:16:37,971 --> 00:16:39,961
about such a dense item. What would you

417
00:16:39,961 --> 00:16:42,030
say about its cosmology, for example.

418
00:16:43,144 --> 00:16:43,882
It's totally.

419
00:16:45,627 --> 00:16:46,526
And and

420
00:16:47,381 --> 00:16:47,881
it

421
00:16:48,258 --> 00:16:51,230
identifies a series of planets, thick stars and

422
00:16:51,607 --> 00:16:53,702
constellation that are the most prolific

423
00:16:54,094 --> 00:16:56,172
in terms of astra magic.

424
00:16:56,971 --> 00:16:58,969
And it was this fact that gave me

425
00:16:58,969 --> 00:16:59,788
the first

426
00:17:00,247 --> 00:17:02,379
indication that what I was dealing with

427
00:17:02,895 --> 00:17:05,695
was a grim of elite so

428
00:17:06,226 --> 00:17:07,415
of the darkest kind.

429
00:17:08,049 --> 00:17:08,287
Right.

430
00:17:09,556 --> 00:17:12,356
Okay. So That's the cosmology that we have

431
00:17:12,356 --> 00:17:13,232
here. Mh.

432
00:17:13,789 --> 00:17:15,621
The items, you know, you will find them

433
00:17:15,621 --> 00:17:18,568
in pick tricks or any of those classic

434
00:17:18,568 --> 00:17:19,068
texts

435
00:17:19,698 --> 00:17:20,731
of astro magic.

436
00:17:21,208 --> 00:17:24,546
But the ones particularly picked out and illustrated

437
00:17:24,546 --> 00:17:26,318
within the deck are wholly.

438
00:17:27,825 --> 00:17:31,184
So III can't conceive of another use of

439
00:17:31,184 --> 00:17:34,164
those energies other than what they call m.

440
00:17:35,197 --> 00:17:36,073
Attack so.

441
00:17:36,709 --> 00:17:37,027
Right.

442
00:17:37,743 --> 00:17:39,733
It's pretty cut and dry when it comes

443
00:17:39,733 --> 00:17:41,643
to the things they were trying to invoke.

444
00:17:41,802 --> 00:17:43,257
It's just negativity

445
00:17:44,522 --> 00:17:45,634
across the board it seems.

446
00:17:46,429 --> 00:17:46,929
It's

447
00:17:47,542 --> 00:17:49,291
it's an exercise power.

448
00:17:50,085 --> 00:17:51,516
I think when we look at these elite

449
00:17:51,516 --> 00:17:54,312
families, you know, we need to realized that

450
00:17:54,312 --> 00:17:56,933
they were not like a modern state. They

451
00:17:56,933 --> 00:17:59,236
didn't function in that way. Mh. They were

452
00:17:59,236 --> 00:18:02,352
far closer to the godfather. Oh, the the

453
00:18:02,352 --> 00:18:03,309
film in Ba.

454
00:18:04,506 --> 00:18:05,564
They had their

455
00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:07,058
beneficial side,

456
00:18:07,856 --> 00:18:10,328
but they were capable of any kind of

457
00:18:10,328 --> 00:18:10,828
cruelty.

458
00:18:11,699 --> 00:18:13,056
Or evil. Mh.

459
00:18:13,614 --> 00:18:15,790
These were the families from which Machiavelli

460
00:18:16,566 --> 00:18:18,981
drew the principles of governing

461
00:18:19,453 --> 00:18:21,465
just by observing them. So

462
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,851
on the 1 side, they would have d

463
00:18:24,067 --> 00:18:25,897
marriages. They would have, you know,

464
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:29,505
agreements, treaties and so on. But on the

465
00:18:29,505 --> 00:18:31,342
other side, the flip side of the coin

466
00:18:31,342 --> 00:18:33,121
is their employment of poisonous

467
00:18:33,434 --> 00:18:34,413
you know, sorcerer,

468
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:35,529
assassins,

469
00:18:36,385 --> 00:18:36,784
spies.

470
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:38,640
So,

471
00:18:39,576 --> 00:18:41,251
you know, there's, like too sides to the

472
00:18:41,251 --> 00:18:43,299
coin. And and this deck illustrates

473
00:18:44,057 --> 00:18:46,048
this is why it's such a rare artifact,

474
00:18:46,367 --> 00:18:48,678
a very dark side of the dark side

475
00:18:48,678 --> 00:18:50,271
of the coin. Mh.

476
00:18:51,404 --> 00:18:51,644
But

477
00:18:52,205 --> 00:18:54,605
I wanna qualify that, and it's something probably

478
00:18:54,605 --> 00:18:56,924
we lump unpack as we go along Greg

479
00:18:56,924 --> 00:18:59,404
is is to say that what this deck

480
00:18:59,404 --> 00:18:59,904
is

481
00:19:00,377 --> 00:19:03,660
exe amplifying is not the traditional grim

482
00:19:04,273 --> 00:19:04,750
so.

483
00:19:05,228 --> 00:19:06,182
Okay? Okay?

484
00:19:07,057 --> 00:19:09,863
Like the sorcerer, these guys, this elite

485
00:19:10,333 --> 00:19:12,961
employed had copies of, like, the kia of

486
00:19:13,121 --> 00:19:15,989
Solomon and A And and those candidates of

487
00:19:15,989 --> 00:19:16,887
texts, classic

488
00:19:17,198 --> 00:19:20,140
Grim was, you know? Mh. This stuff is

489
00:19:20,140 --> 00:19:21,888
of an order above that.

490
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,102
In terms of its educational background is tradition.

491
00:19:26,753 --> 00:19:29,457
And it's almost never been talked about in

492
00:19:29,457 --> 00:19:30,992
the context of the Western

493
00:19:31,526 --> 00:19:32,639
esoteric history before.

494
00:19:33,768 --> 00:19:36,021
Because it's comes straight from the Byzantine

495
00:19:36,557 --> 00:19:36,796
elite.

496
00:19:37,752 --> 00:19:38,071
Wow.

497
00:19:38,868 --> 00:19:41,577
Okay? It's another thread. It's not being taught

498
00:19:41,577 --> 00:19:43,821
about as far as I can see, has

499
00:19:43,821 --> 00:19:46,601
not been identified as a major player amongst

500
00:19:46,601 --> 00:19:48,109
the elites of Europe before.

501
00:19:49,062 --> 00:19:50,277
This deck is

502
00:19:50,650 --> 00:19:51,150
depicting

503
00:19:51,698 --> 00:19:54,028
a tradition which goes from or

504
00:19:54,403 --> 00:19:55,300
through the neo

505
00:19:55,993 --> 00:19:56,812
into the Byzantine

506
00:19:57,425 --> 00:20:00,141
imperial elite, and from them to Italy.

507
00:20:01,808 --> 00:20:04,269
Man, it is, you know, no small then.

508
00:20:04,904 --> 00:20:07,070
Yep. Dealing with an order of

509
00:20:07,779 --> 00:20:08,279
learned

510
00:20:08,740 --> 00:20:09,240
so

511
00:20:09,940 --> 00:20:12,740
far above the popular grim was. Mh.

512
00:20:13,460 --> 00:20:15,194
And so to talk a little bit about

513
00:20:15,474 --> 00:20:18,434
kinda how they view reality structure. You talk

514
00:20:18,434 --> 00:20:19,894
about how their

515
00:20:20,434 --> 00:20:22,514
view the view that's expressed in this deck

516
00:20:22,514 --> 00:20:23,984
is that souls are rein

517
00:20:24,517 --> 00:20:25,017
and

518
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:27,217
kind of the symbol of the acts is

519
00:20:27,217 --> 00:20:29,043
where they see the milky way crossing with

520
00:20:29,043 --> 00:20:30,631
the path of the Zodiac, and that's the

521
00:20:30,631 --> 00:20:32,635
poor between the worlds, this is a type

522
00:20:32,635 --> 00:20:36,854
of worldview or cosmology that definitely wasn't taught

523
00:20:36,854 --> 00:20:38,048
to the masses as it seems.

524
00:20:39,495 --> 00:20:42,831
Yeah. This emerges directly from or, so we're

525
00:20:42,831 --> 00:20:44,126
back in the eighth century

526
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:45,532
Bc at least.

527
00:20:46,744 --> 00:20:47,804
And it's been

528
00:20:48,744 --> 00:20:49,565
picked up

529
00:20:50,265 --> 00:20:51,644
through figures like fe,

530
00:20:52,025 --> 00:20:52,525
P

531
00:20:53,384 --> 00:20:53,625
teacher.

532
00:20:54,516 --> 00:20:57,558
Plato, of course, and the neo plato philosophers

533
00:20:57,614 --> 00:20:58,011
after.

534
00:20:58,488 --> 00:21:01,665
So there's a continuous tradition there until I'd

535
00:21:01,665 --> 00:21:03,516
like the sixth century Ce.

536
00:21:04,543 --> 00:21:07,417
So it's, like 1200 years old tradition at

537
00:21:07,417 --> 00:21:10,451
this point. Right. Okay? And then there's an

538
00:21:10,451 --> 00:21:12,446
attempt by the Christian Amp emperor, you know,

539
00:21:12,606 --> 00:21:15,165
just any into to stamp this out. Not

540
00:21:15,165 --> 00:21:16,118
very successful.

541
00:21:16,991 --> 00:21:18,126
Because the byzantine

542
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:20,746
elite and especially its civil service

543
00:21:21,373 --> 00:21:24,658
were thoroughly imbued with the values of hell.

544
00:21:25,273 --> 00:21:27,421
To enter the civil service, you had to

545
00:21:27,421 --> 00:21:27,921
have

546
00:21:28,615 --> 00:21:31,279
relevant number of years study of hell

547
00:21:31,658 --> 00:21:33,336
classical literature and philosophy.

548
00:21:34,215 --> 00:21:36,373
And with that, it's kind of, you know,

549
00:21:36,613 --> 00:21:39,090
in the kernel of it is pagan ism.

550
00:21:39,823 --> 00:21:42,057
You can't extract it out of it. If

551
00:21:42,057 --> 00:21:44,393
you're studying Plato, you have pagan

552
00:21:44,850 --> 00:21:46,765
built in, so to speak. Mh.

553
00:21:47,338 --> 00:21:48,873
So it perpetuated

554
00:21:49,328 --> 00:21:49,828
itself

555
00:21:50,203 --> 00:21:52,829
well into the fifteenth century, and you have

556
00:21:52,829 --> 00:21:56,092
major figures in the Byzantine court at this

557
00:21:56,092 --> 00:21:58,123
time. The imperial elite

558
00:21:58,742 --> 00:22:00,900
who are self declared pagans.

559
00:22:02,098 --> 00:22:03,856
You know? And again, this doesn't quite fit

560
00:22:03,856 --> 00:22:07,540
in with our church written history of the

561
00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:07,859
times.

562
00:22:08,576 --> 00:22:11,683
But nevertheless, that's that's how things fell out.

563
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,005
Right. And you talk about, mit cult, which

564
00:22:15,124 --> 00:22:17,141
is something that I've had researchers

565
00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:19,993
dig up before, and they... Some suggest it's

566
00:22:19,993 --> 00:22:22,329
a thread that still continues in the background

567
00:22:22,387 --> 00:22:23,446
today. But

568
00:22:23,918 --> 00:22:25,690
to have these

569
00:22:26,382 --> 00:22:29,084
nods to a mit ray cult at this

570
00:22:29,084 --> 00:22:30,912
time depth. It is strange. I mean, this

571
00:22:30,912 --> 00:22:32,820
just what you're saying. This cult, and these

572
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:34,275
I idea should've have been long gone by

573
00:22:34,275 --> 00:22:35,315
the fifteenth century.

574
00:22:36,115 --> 00:22:39,075
Yeah. They're were well alive, they had a

575
00:22:39,075 --> 00:22:42,112
huge revival in the tenth and eleventh century

576
00:22:42,112 --> 00:22:43,064
with people like Michael,

577
00:22:44,333 --> 00:22:47,520
who recovered much of the literature, but Again,

578
00:22:47,679 --> 00:22:49,977
our history lets us down, Greg, because, you

579
00:22:49,977 --> 00:22:52,434
know, we see people figures like Michael Sellers

580
00:22:52,434 --> 00:22:54,098
who recovered the Ka day in Oracle.

581
00:22:55,390 --> 00:22:58,590
As stand alone. We don't see them in

582
00:22:58,590 --> 00:22:59,090
context.

583
00:23:00,590 --> 00:23:02,529
Mike sellers has had teachers

584
00:23:02,845 --> 00:23:03,345
who

585
00:23:03,964 --> 00:23:07,085
ina his interest in these ancient texts and

586
00:23:07,085 --> 00:23:09,404
ideas, and and they had teachers, and, you

587
00:23:09,404 --> 00:23:12,879
know, the golden Thread runs back and fourth

588
00:23:12,939 --> 00:23:14,797
back into the past and forward

589
00:23:15,496 --> 00:23:15,996
into

590
00:23:16,375 --> 00:23:19,252
contemporary history. It's never broken. And I think

591
00:23:19,252 --> 00:23:21,490
there's 1 good reason why that's the case.

592
00:23:22,624 --> 00:23:23,363
The world

593
00:23:24,381 --> 00:23:26,639
that exists at the core of this system

594
00:23:27,897 --> 00:23:29,835
makes sense in a

595
00:23:30,147 --> 00:23:33,165
way in which doctor earth theology does not

596
00:23:33,165 --> 00:23:36,841
make sense. Mh k? It is an esoteric

597
00:23:38,565 --> 00:23:39,065
experiential

598
00:23:40,088 --> 00:23:41,121
approach to reality.

599
00:23:41,677 --> 00:23:43,901
So that for those of us who for

600
00:23:43,901 --> 00:23:46,839
instance work with energy, you do regression work,

601
00:23:47,633 --> 00:23:48,586
constellation work, whatever,

602
00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:50,295
The notion of rein

603
00:23:50,671 --> 00:23:52,343
is a very real 1. Mh.

604
00:23:53,139 --> 00:23:56,585
You experienced people who recover past life

605
00:23:56,961 --> 00:23:57,121
information.

606
00:23:57,772 --> 00:24:00,557
So, you know, you don't need a theological

607
00:24:00,557 --> 00:24:03,341
judgment about it. It becomes part of your

608
00:24:03,341 --> 00:24:03,739
experience.

609
00:24:04,788 --> 00:24:07,348
And the belief system coming out of or

610
00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:10,415
is rooted in real experience in this way.

611
00:24:10,811 --> 00:24:11,628
It's liberating

612
00:24:12,413 --> 00:24:14,503
because it has this many lives

613
00:24:14,878 --> 00:24:15,754
aspect to it,

614
00:24:16,629 --> 00:24:19,890
and it places the onus on your own

615
00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:20,686
moral development.

616
00:24:21,098 --> 00:24:23,405
Rather than obeying some these rules. Mh.

617
00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:26,291
K? So there's a dynamic element

618
00:24:26,904 --> 00:24:29,154
at the core of the belief system

619
00:24:29,704 --> 00:24:32,261
that perpetuate itself from year to year from

620
00:24:32,341 --> 00:24:34,899
Century to century. And even if it was

621
00:24:34,899 --> 00:24:37,456
lost, it would be recovered or recoverable.

622
00:24:38,095 --> 00:24:38,335
Right.

623
00:24:38,988 --> 00:24:40,898
Because that's the way things are. You know,

624
00:24:41,853 --> 00:24:44,559
Okay. Yes. And, you know, these ideas you're

625
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:47,583
talking about now, very agnostic. And in regards

626
00:24:47,583 --> 00:24:49,905
to the deck, as agnostic piece, you say,

627
00:24:50,144 --> 00:24:53,008
in categorizing the dex cosmology as agnostic. We

628
00:24:53,008 --> 00:24:54,997
need to take care not to confuse this

629
00:24:54,997 --> 00:24:57,359
fact with the historically documented agnostic

630
00:24:58,037 --> 00:25:01,143
preoccupation with spiritual liberation. Nothing could be further

631
00:25:01,143 --> 00:25:03,055
from the worldview of the Nobles to design

632
00:25:03,055 --> 00:25:05,944
this deck. Yeah. And obviously, that's an important

633
00:25:06,081 --> 00:25:08,489
separation. I guess, what other aspects of na

634
00:25:08,489 --> 00:25:10,722
system do actually make it into the deck.

635
00:25:11,998 --> 00:25:12,955
Everything is there.

636
00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:16,486
Exactly. This this view that you should

637
00:25:16,878 --> 00:25:17,378
somehow

638
00:25:17,995 --> 00:25:20,648
clam out of the cycle of meta

639
00:25:21,345 --> 00:25:23,498
and, you know, a ascend to a higher

640
00:25:23,498 --> 00:25:23,817
plane.

641
00:25:24,535 --> 00:25:25,811
That is totally absent.

642
00:25:26,861 --> 00:25:27,759
This deck

643
00:25:28,215 --> 00:25:29,431
takes na

644
00:25:30,762 --> 00:25:33,411
and converts it into a mechanism,

645
00:25:33,786 --> 00:25:35,776
let... Or let's let's put it this way.

646
00:25:36,668 --> 00:25:38,364
This deck as a agnostic

647
00:25:39,380 --> 00:25:42,012
artifact em bog the idea that if the

648
00:25:42,012 --> 00:25:44,564
machinery of the universe runs in such a

649
00:25:44,564 --> 00:25:45,702
way that

650
00:25:46,654 --> 00:25:47,873
subsequent lives

651
00:25:48,892 --> 00:25:52,029
arise out of the way you worship,

652
00:25:52,568 --> 00:25:56,179
way you treat deities in this life, then

653
00:25:56,179 --> 00:25:58,975
you can start affecting the trajectory of your

654
00:25:58,975 --> 00:25:59,475
subsequent

655
00:26:00,013 --> 00:26:00,513
rein.

656
00:26:01,372 --> 00:26:02,330
K? Right.

657
00:26:03,143 --> 00:26:05,770
So this idea is taken directly out of

658
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:06,725
Plato ph.

659
00:26:07,442 --> 00:26:08,875
You know, we're in the deities at is

660
00:26:08,875 --> 00:26:11,000
you worship in this life, you enter their

661
00:26:11,199 --> 00:26:13,532
train in... You enter their entourage

662
00:26:13,989 --> 00:26:14,547
upon death,

663
00:26:15,184 --> 00:26:17,496
and you travel with them, and then you

664
00:26:17,496 --> 00:26:18,394
kind of reenter.

665
00:26:18,851 --> 00:26:21,752
Okay? Now the key here is to reenter

666
00:26:22,048 --> 00:26:25,012
into a social circle that is suitable

667
00:26:26,182 --> 00:26:27,057
for objectives.

668
00:26:27,867 --> 00:26:30,094
And for these elite families, the objective is

669
00:26:30,094 --> 00:26:30,912
to reenter

670
00:26:31,763 --> 00:26:33,513
an elite family. Mh.

671
00:26:34,229 --> 00:26:36,853
Okay. So in this way, the ritual suggested

672
00:26:36,853 --> 00:26:39,184
within the deck is a way of controlling

673
00:26:39,184 --> 00:26:41,285
the trajectory of one's own meta.

674
00:26:42,704 --> 00:26:44,384
And this is where the notion of blood

675
00:26:44,384 --> 00:26:47,195
lines takes on a new and deeper meaning.

676
00:26:48,232 --> 00:26:50,865
Absolutely. That's so interesting because it's like, we

677
00:26:50,865 --> 00:26:52,801
always see the elite as

678
00:26:53,432 --> 00:26:55,842
into playing the long game. And these multi

679
00:26:56,456 --> 00:26:59,560
generational mindset and mainstream culture looks at and

680
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,151
says well that makes no sense, You know,

681
00:27:01,310 --> 00:27:03,798
people, Yeah. Only live to be 70 80

682
00:27:03,798 --> 00:27:05,555
years old, They're not worried about what's going

683
00:27:05,555 --> 00:27:08,032
on for a 200 year game plan, but

684
00:27:08,032 --> 00:27:09,970
this context makes that

685
00:27:10,363 --> 00:27:13,394
seem plausible. And it justifies why that worldview

686
00:27:13,394 --> 00:27:14,591
would exist among the elite.

687
00:27:15,707 --> 00:27:17,643
Yeah. And if you look at the eth

688
00:27:17,941 --> 00:27:19,855
record around the world you find, you know,

689
00:27:20,189 --> 00:27:22,099
plenty of places where this is the way

690
00:27:22,099 --> 00:27:23,214
things are are managed.

691
00:27:23,931 --> 00:27:25,842
They take a lot of care with death

692
00:27:25,842 --> 00:27:26,342
ritual

693
00:27:26,877 --> 00:27:29,603
to try and ensure the subsequent rebirth of

694
00:27:29,603 --> 00:27:31,222
that, let's call it soul

695
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:35,057
back into the family group or into the

696
00:27:35,276 --> 00:27:38,005
community or whatever and It kind of reaches

697
00:27:38,005 --> 00:27:40,496
a high point with the bud llama who

698
00:27:40,553 --> 00:27:42,168
of course, attempt

699
00:27:42,783 --> 00:27:43,840
multiple subsequent

700
00:27:44,216 --> 00:27:44,716
rebirth

701
00:27:45,092 --> 00:27:45,592
into

702
00:27:45,983 --> 00:27:48,557
equally spiritual positions and mona.

703
00:27:49,253 --> 00:27:50,551
K. They have a mechanism

704
00:27:51,008 --> 00:27:53,582
for running that process and for them validating

705
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,677
that it's working.

706
00:27:55,968 --> 00:27:59,075
So it's actually the Western Esoteric system that's

707
00:27:59,075 --> 00:28:00,190
kind of lacking this.

708
00:28:01,067 --> 00:28:03,776
But clearly at an elite level, the awareness

709
00:28:03,776 --> 00:28:04,971
of it was still there.

710
00:28:05,780 --> 00:28:08,162
It is amazing. This is, like, exhibit a

711
00:28:08,162 --> 00:28:10,542
for the case that I've heard people trying

712
00:28:10,542 --> 00:28:12,527
to make for such a long time without

713
00:28:12,527 --> 00:28:14,450
having me real evidence or proof? I mean,

714
00:28:14,610 --> 00:28:15,189
this is

715
00:28:15,644 --> 00:28:17,872
no small thing. Yeah. And, I guess we

716
00:28:17,872 --> 00:28:18,690
should address

717
00:28:19,383 --> 00:28:20,974
dead on? Why is it called the game

718
00:28:20,974 --> 00:28:21,531
of Saturn?

719
00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:26,010
The figure of saturn per pervasive this deck

720
00:28:26,010 --> 00:28:27,285
here at every level.

721
00:28:28,002 --> 00:28:30,097
I've got a quote here. It's

722
00:28:30,408 --> 00:28:33,354
By pro in its plato theology says all

723
00:28:33,433 --> 00:28:34,331
Greek theology

724
00:28:34,787 --> 00:28:37,811
is the offspring of or mystical doctrine.

725
00:28:38,383 --> 00:28:41,188
And if you look at the Or, d,

726
00:28:41,721 --> 00:28:45,139
it starts out with Kronos, the great serpent.

727
00:28:46,028 --> 00:28:47,620
Gives birth to a egg.

728
00:28:48,894 --> 00:28:51,520
And from the egg, it splits apart to

729
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,271
create the land and the sky and and

730
00:28:53,271 --> 00:28:55,261
within it is the figure of fe.

731
00:28:56,552 --> 00:28:59,207
Wound around by a large sharpen. So

732
00:28:59,744 --> 00:29:00,803
this is a very

733
00:29:01,180 --> 00:29:01,680
early

734
00:29:02,856 --> 00:29:03,356
component

735
00:29:03,748 --> 00:29:06,314
that situate Kronos at the most fundamental

736
00:29:06,846 --> 00:29:07,879
point of creation.

737
00:29:08,753 --> 00:29:10,659
K? And Kronos is saturn.

738
00:29:11,295 --> 00:29:11,533
Right.

739
00:29:12,264 --> 00:29:13,242
And for the carthaginian,

740
00:29:13,699 --> 00:29:14,358
he was

741
00:29:14,975 --> 00:29:15,772
Baal on.

742
00:29:16,729 --> 00:29:17,766
And in the bible,

743
00:29:18,244 --> 00:29:19,440
he appears as M.

744
00:29:21,686 --> 00:29:24,151
Okay? These are all same entity, but different

745
00:29:24,151 --> 00:29:25,525
aspects of it. So

746
00:29:26,059 --> 00:29:28,944
with this roots in the offer tradition, Kronos

747
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,352
becomes the central player.

748
00:29:31,558 --> 00:29:33,883
He is the demi. He is the creator

749
00:29:34,176 --> 00:29:37,532
entity. So the Serpent or Draco form

750
00:29:38,078 --> 00:29:38,976
of the deity

751
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:40,623
is the primal 1.

752
00:29:41,418 --> 00:29:41,816
Mh.

753
00:29:42,452 --> 00:29:44,997
Okay. That's why the game of saturn and

754
00:29:44,997 --> 00:29:47,382
then multiple cards within the deck.

755
00:29:48,034 --> 00:29:49,490
Kind of replay this

756
00:29:50,027 --> 00:29:50,845
this theme

757
00:29:51,541 --> 00:29:53,853
of the serpent that as saturn as the

758
00:29:53,853 --> 00:29:56,027
serpent as Ba on

759
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:56,740
you know,

760
00:29:57,859 --> 00:30:00,099
saw whoever put this thing together had a

761
00:30:00,099 --> 00:30:01,320
very good grasp

762
00:30:01,859 --> 00:30:02,359
of

763
00:30:03,140 --> 00:30:03,640
mythology

764
00:30:03,953 --> 00:30:07,205
and the t and cosmology of various faith.

765
00:30:08,474 --> 00:30:10,854
That is so true. And along this line

766
00:30:10,854 --> 00:30:13,171
to quote you again, you say the dex

767
00:30:13,171 --> 00:30:14,204
theology embraces,

768
00:30:14,681 --> 00:30:17,883
no cosmology in its totality, but nevertheless

769
00:30:18,337 --> 00:30:20,903
discard liberation in favor of the positive

770
00:30:21,214 --> 00:30:23,948
embrace of the demi worldly rulers.

771
00:30:24,405 --> 00:30:26,878
Is this to say that there's a mindset

772
00:30:26,878 --> 00:30:28,887
within the fifteenth century elite that hey, Demi.

773
00:30:29,444 --> 00:30:31,037
I know you're the boss. We figured this

774
00:30:31,037 --> 00:30:32,549
out. So how can I get on your

775
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:33,823
good side? How can we work out a

776
00:30:33,823 --> 00:30:35,813
deal? Is that kind the... I couldn't put

777
00:30:35,813 --> 00:30:37,265
it better at my sell Right.

778
00:30:40,384 --> 00:30:41,664
That's it. You got it.

779
00:30:42,464 --> 00:30:42,865
Wow.

780
00:30:43,585 --> 00:30:45,125
It seems so in line with

781
00:30:45,744 --> 00:30:47,585
suggestions today that the Elite have made a

782
00:30:47,585 --> 00:30:49,883
deal with the Dam to basically be the

783
00:30:49,883 --> 00:30:52,339
management class on the earthly plane to opt

784
00:30:52,339 --> 00:30:54,336
out of the rebirth cycle and stay in

785
00:30:54,336 --> 00:30:57,351
these positions maintain these blood lines, and in

786
00:30:57,351 --> 00:30:59,730
exchange have vast amounts of material wealth and

787
00:30:59,730 --> 00:31:02,288
power. I guess That's a worldview that's pretty

788
00:31:02,288 --> 00:31:04,139
aligned with this fifteenth century

789
00:31:04,673 --> 00:31:07,057
elite heir room and it's chain of custody,

790
00:31:07,216 --> 00:31:07,534
I guess.

791
00:31:08,583 --> 00:31:10,195
Yes. It's the... The horrible

792
00:31:10,808 --> 00:31:13,748
realization isn't it that those conspiracy theories have

793
00:31:13,748 --> 00:31:16,291
their roots in a real tradition? Mh.

794
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:19,900
You know, that's the bottom line with this

795
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:21,600
reading of the deck, this

796
00:31:22,059 --> 00:31:22,779
interpretation of the deck.

797
00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:23,660
Mh.

798
00:31:24,299 --> 00:31:25,340
It's hardly real.

799
00:31:27,273 --> 00:31:29,028
Right. And and that's kind of like, what

800
00:31:29,108 --> 00:31:31,182
I just think is so provocative about it.

801
00:31:31,422 --> 00:31:33,017
And you write about how they had this

802
00:31:33,017 --> 00:31:36,542
worldview that each person or soul coordinates with

803
00:31:36,542 --> 00:31:39,116
a star in the sky, and the deck

804
00:31:39,334 --> 00:31:42,444
contains references to a star could put angle,

805
00:31:42,683 --> 00:31:44,615
I guess is how it's... Something I've Star...

806
00:31:44,855 --> 00:31:46,535
Yeah. That's a star. I've never really here

807
00:31:46,535 --> 00:31:48,055
talked about. What do we know about this

808
00:31:48,055 --> 00:31:48,555
stars

809
00:31:48,934 --> 00:31:51,414
attributed characteristics. What are the references to this

810
00:31:51,414 --> 00:31:52,055
star mean to you?

811
00:31:53,107 --> 00:31:55,035
It's the most prolific

812
00:31:55,407 --> 00:31:55,907
star

813
00:31:56,518 --> 00:31:57,232
in the sky.

814
00:31:58,977 --> 00:31:59,532
Bar on.

815
00:32:01,214 --> 00:32:04,174
So if you wanna do the heaviest kind

816
00:32:04,174 --> 00:32:05,954
of so, imaginable.

817
00:32:06,654 --> 00:32:08,575
This is definitely 1 of the ingredients.

818
00:32:08,974 --> 00:32:11,385
The energies of this particular star.

819
00:32:12,501 --> 00:32:14,493
That's why it's there. That's why it's kind

820
00:32:14,493 --> 00:32:15,392
of highlighted

821
00:32:16,167 --> 00:32:16,805
in the deck.

822
00:32:18,575 --> 00:32:19,775
It's part of a brew.

823
00:32:21,454 --> 00:32:22,414
A dark brew.

824
00:32:23,295 --> 00:32:25,934
Well said. And and because it's a fixed

825
00:32:25,934 --> 00:32:26,255
star,

826
00:32:26,989 --> 00:32:28,048
whatever male

827
00:32:28,745 --> 00:32:29,463
intention you have,

828
00:32:30,022 --> 00:32:32,974
its energy will tend to fix it in

829
00:32:32,974 --> 00:32:34,991
place and prolong it's

830
00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:36,178
activity.

831
00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:39,835
And that's why the the fixed stars are

832
00:32:39,835 --> 00:32:42,618
important for that, and a prolific fixed star

833
00:32:42,618 --> 00:32:45,579
kinda has the double action of adding to

834
00:32:45,579 --> 00:32:49,179
the dark brew whilst maintaining its pervasive. It's

835
00:32:49,179 --> 00:32:52,380
its influence its effect on people. Mh.

836
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:56,713
But I I wanna... Perhaps it's just worth

837
00:32:56,769 --> 00:32:58,063
worthwhile contextual

838
00:32:58,675 --> 00:33:01,875
what we set up to now, Greg. Because

839
00:33:01,931 --> 00:33:02,431
recent

840
00:33:03,058 --> 00:33:04,990
Eth demographic work has

841
00:33:05,603 --> 00:33:09,206
identified and opened out a phenomenal dark shamanism.

842
00:33:10,392 --> 00:33:11,665
And for years now,

843
00:33:12,301 --> 00:33:14,610
people especially in the west have been looking

844
00:33:14,610 --> 00:33:17,156
towards shamanism as this liberating force,

845
00:33:18,047 --> 00:33:20,831
you know, as is ecological conscious and and

846
00:33:20,831 --> 00:33:23,376
all these good things, and we've kind of

847
00:33:23,376 --> 00:33:25,467
neglected the fact that there's a complimentary

848
00:33:26,733 --> 00:33:27,233
Shamanism,

849
00:33:27,611 --> 00:33:29,068
which is correctly

850
00:33:29,445 --> 00:33:31,221
characterized as dark shamanism.

851
00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:33,433
At... But those who wanna follow this up,

852
00:33:33,513 --> 00:33:36,359
there's an excellent collection of academic essay called

853
00:33:36,637 --> 00:33:39,415
in darkness and secrecy by white head and

854
00:33:39,415 --> 00:33:41,502
right, and it very much

855
00:33:41,875 --> 00:33:44,652
concentrates on dark shamanism within the Amazon area,

856
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:48,263
But the core of this is salt so,

857
00:33:49,351 --> 00:33:51,121
and a kinda of cosmological

858
00:33:51,971 --> 00:33:54,689
construct we can perhaps best described as a

859
00:33:54,689 --> 00:33:58,348
cosmology of pre prudential. Mh. And and the

860
00:33:58,348 --> 00:34:00,929
core of this is that the Cha opens

861
00:34:01,143 --> 00:34:03,943
themselves to possession by the most

862
00:34:04,632 --> 00:34:05,132
powerful

863
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:06,480
predatory

864
00:34:07,249 --> 00:34:07,408
entity.

865
00:34:08,856 --> 00:34:10,290
That they can summon.

866
00:34:11,246 --> 00:34:13,399
And in that form, they either can go

867
00:34:13,399 --> 00:34:16,281
out of body to wreak havoc or they

868
00:34:16,281 --> 00:34:19,375
can command lesser entities to do their bidding.

869
00:34:19,851 --> 00:34:20,010
K?

870
00:34:20,803 --> 00:34:22,890
So this is a core eth demographic

871
00:34:23,421 --> 00:34:23,659
construct.

872
00:34:24,627 --> 00:34:27,328
Now the strange thing is that when we

873
00:34:27,328 --> 00:34:30,267
look at the card specifically 1 card called

874
00:34:30,347 --> 00:34:30,847
Ip,

875
00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:32,333
it shows a monk,

876
00:34:33,223 --> 00:34:34,341
with Dragon wings.

877
00:34:35,618 --> 00:34:38,572
Okay? And within the sequence of ritual cards

878
00:34:38,572 --> 00:34:39,370
within the deck,

879
00:34:40,088 --> 00:34:43,534
you see a series that are intended to

880
00:34:43,534 --> 00:34:45,710
induce possession by a Draco

881
00:34:46,326 --> 00:34:46,485
entity.

882
00:34:47,363 --> 00:34:47,682
Cheers.

883
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,538
And that card

884
00:34:50,234 --> 00:34:51,851
actually depicts the monk

885
00:34:52,163 --> 00:34:55,981
totally possessed by the entity. So when there's

886
00:34:55,981 --> 00:34:58,447
different grades of possession, of course.

887
00:34:59,257 --> 00:35:00,394
You know, you can have

888
00:35:01,087 --> 00:35:04,212
whole variety, but complete possession means the total

889
00:35:04,269 --> 00:35:05,462
displacement of the persona.

890
00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:08,518
The person will have no memory whatsoever

891
00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:09,550
post

892
00:35:10,637 --> 00:35:12,463
of what they've done of what happened.

893
00:35:13,669 --> 00:35:16,066
The possession is complete. Mh. K?

894
00:35:16,945 --> 00:35:19,203
So in the context of dark shamanism,

895
00:35:19,581 --> 00:35:20,960
we're seeing a

896
00:35:21,434 --> 00:35:23,206
eth geographically attest

897
00:35:23,661 --> 00:35:24,161
process

898
00:35:24,536 --> 00:35:27,797
whereby dark Shaman open themselves to possession by

899
00:35:27,797 --> 00:35:29,030
these predatory

900
00:35:29,409 --> 00:35:32,289
entities and then use that power so to

901
00:35:32,289 --> 00:35:35,190
speak to wreak havoc of what whatever can

902
00:35:35,585 --> 00:35:39,125
they intend to do. Mh So that construct

903
00:35:39,344 --> 00:35:39,844
perfectly

904
00:35:40,144 --> 00:35:40,644
fits

905
00:35:41,025 --> 00:35:42,784
the imagery that we're dealing with.

906
00:35:43,838 --> 00:35:45,374
And the kind of uses

907
00:35:45,989 --> 00:35:46,967
that this

908
00:35:47,504 --> 00:35:48,619
Renaissance elite would have.

909
00:35:49,576 --> 00:35:51,065
Yes. It's just it's

910
00:35:51,423 --> 00:35:52,860
quite amazing. And you know there's a lot

911
00:35:52,860 --> 00:35:55,494
of people even today. We hear little nuggets

912
00:35:55,494 --> 00:35:59,106
of wisdom dropped by those who have

913
00:35:59,420 --> 00:36:01,900
kind of touch the fringes of elite circles

914
00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:04,539
or worked in certain industries like banking or

915
00:36:04,539 --> 00:36:06,780
politics at high levels, and they come out

916
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:07,179
and say,

917
00:36:07,833 --> 00:36:09,983
You know, these people are possessed, and you're

918
00:36:09,983 --> 00:36:11,336
like, you know, you don't think of that

919
00:36:11,336 --> 00:36:13,406
literally, but that's a a term that is

920
00:36:13,406 --> 00:36:15,578
thrown around quite often when describing

921
00:36:15,889 --> 00:36:18,043
the way these people act and the way

922
00:36:18,043 --> 00:36:19,638
it is to... The way it feels to

923
00:36:19,638 --> 00:36:20,276
be around them.

924
00:36:21,233 --> 00:36:22,908
Exactly. And this is it. Now if we

925
00:36:22,908 --> 00:36:26,350
can only start connecting are, you know, eth

926
00:36:26,350 --> 00:36:27,804
demographic and historical

927
00:36:29,051 --> 00:36:31,514
information to the current situation, we can begin

928
00:36:31,514 --> 00:36:33,420
to illuminate some of these things for the

929
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:33,897
first time.

930
00:36:34,707 --> 00:36:37,172
They start to make sense when you contextualize

931
00:36:37,172 --> 00:36:39,580
them, but you gotta get the right background

932
00:36:39,795 --> 00:36:41,942
in place in order to do that.

933
00:36:42,914 --> 00:36:45,710
Absolutely. And, you know, another element of that

934
00:36:45,710 --> 00:36:47,649
background is you say that the

935
00:36:48,108 --> 00:36:49,246
Ds world

936
00:36:49,865 --> 00:36:53,296
entirely planes the magically oriented motivations of the

937
00:36:53,296 --> 00:36:56,074
decks design and use. And Ds is a

938
00:36:56,074 --> 00:36:57,422
name that comes up a lot in your

939
00:36:57,422 --> 00:36:59,764
book. I don't hear it all that. Often

940
00:37:00,221 --> 00:37:02,396
outside of your book, but tell us about

941
00:37:02,534 --> 00:37:03,890
that family and

942
00:37:04,767 --> 00:37:06,203
their connection to this deck.

943
00:37:09,809 --> 00:37:12,467
Yeah, They kind of emerge out of obscurity

944
00:37:12,526 --> 00:37:14,764
in the, you know, tenth century or so.

945
00:37:15,483 --> 00:37:18,120
And there's various branches of this family, and

946
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,920
and you're right They're obscure, I certainly didn't

947
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,940
have any particular awareness of them when I

948
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:25,053
started this project,

949
00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:27,851
But they In Italy, they came to be

950
00:37:27,851 --> 00:37:29,840
the rulers are of the city state of,

951
00:37:31,112 --> 00:37:32,862
and we're closely allied with Venice.

952
00:37:33,515 --> 00:37:35,914
And it's within that context that the deck

953
00:37:35,914 --> 00:37:37,454
was designed and created.

954
00:37:38,315 --> 00:37:40,795
Now it turns out that the Italian branches

955
00:37:40,795 --> 00:37:42,074
a cadet branch.

956
00:37:42,889 --> 00:37:44,269
Of the larger family

957
00:37:44,650 --> 00:37:46,409
in the Austro Hungarian area,

958
00:37:47,289 --> 00:37:48,989
the the Gu est,

959
00:37:50,103 --> 00:37:52,752
and the other Cadet branch of this family

960
00:37:52,889 --> 00:37:53,707
are the

961
00:37:54,083 --> 00:37:54,583
Hanover

962
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:56,970
Monarchs.

963
00:37:58,234 --> 00:37:58,734
So

964
00:37:59,266 --> 00:38:01,432
let me put this in a historical context.

965
00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:03,471
I think something like,

966
00:38:04,264 --> 00:38:07,458
17 Century Mary d day of Mode medina,

967
00:38:07,936 --> 00:38:09,128
marry the Duke of York.

968
00:38:10,321 --> 00:38:12,150
And when he ascended to the throne of

969
00:38:12,388 --> 00:38:12,547
England,

970
00:38:13,278 --> 00:38:14,550
she became queen of England.

971
00:38:15,664 --> 00:38:18,050
Okay? And it was a short lived monarchy.

972
00:38:19,085 --> 00:38:19,824
But then

973
00:38:20,452 --> 00:38:22,859
There was an inter and then the Hanover

974
00:38:23,233 --> 00:38:24,346
Monarchs took over.

975
00:38:25,539 --> 00:38:27,684
And this is George the first second third,

976
00:38:28,003 --> 00:38:28,877
all of these people.

977
00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:32,505
Now, we're talking about arc of history,

978
00:38:33,364 --> 00:38:34,743
which leads from

979
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,340
supremacy

980
00:38:36,654 --> 00:38:39,603
in the renaissance for about 300 years.

981
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:42,950
And then kind of switches saddle.

982
00:38:43,667 --> 00:38:43,827
Okay?

983
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:46,634
Just in time to catch the rise of

984
00:38:46,634 --> 00:38:47,672
the British empire.

985
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:48,709
Mh.

986
00:38:49,827 --> 00:38:51,662
And at the end of that, the tail

987
00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:52,221
end of that,

988
00:38:53,034 --> 00:38:55,671
catches the start of the Usa.

989
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:59,427
Right. And so the implication there is that

990
00:38:59,427 --> 00:39:02,639
there's maybe a network working within groups doesn't

991
00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:05,192
have the same allegiance as we might think.

992
00:39:05,511 --> 00:39:07,447
And, you know, when 1 empire

993
00:39:07,825 --> 00:39:10,001
declines in another rises, some of these

994
00:39:10,314 --> 00:39:12,150
figures or what we might call the Brotherhood

995
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:15,104
of Saturn, they seem to emerge in these

996
00:39:15,104 --> 00:39:17,898
new empires as well as the collapsing ones.

997
00:39:18,617 --> 00:39:19,596
Yeah. So

998
00:39:20,149 --> 00:39:21,827
You have to put all the points of

999
00:39:21,827 --> 00:39:24,143
view together. You have to pile them together

1000
00:39:24,143 --> 00:39:26,620
to make sense of these kind of patents.

1001
00:39:27,433 --> 00:39:29,984
Because they... Historically they're so long lived.

1002
00:39:30,941 --> 00:39:33,195
And this takes us right back to

1003
00:39:33,572 --> 00:39:34,072
By

1004
00:39:34,529 --> 00:39:35,780
again where this

1005
00:39:36,377 --> 00:39:38,150
Pagan philosopher who

1006
00:39:39,243 --> 00:39:41,175
introduced these ideas to Italy

1007
00:39:41,711 --> 00:39:43,064
had a pagan school.

1008
00:39:44,431 --> 00:39:46,438
Which taught 30, which taught

1009
00:39:46,810 --> 00:39:50,537
ritual magic and was completely a pagan entity.

1010
00:39:50,933 --> 00:39:51,171
K?

1011
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:54,960
So what I'm saying is there's a tradition

1012
00:39:55,179 --> 00:39:56,960
of a ritual practice

1013
00:39:58,460 --> 00:39:59,599
that was invented

1014
00:40:00,232 --> 00:40:03,276
God knows when, was alive and well in

1015
00:40:03,413 --> 00:40:04,628
fifteenth century by

1016
00:40:05,401 --> 00:40:08,502
and is now captured within these cards and

1017
00:40:08,502 --> 00:40:09,297
carried forward.

1018
00:40:10,581 --> 00:40:12,958
And again, how come we have these cards?

1019
00:40:13,117 --> 00:40:15,439
Where have they been for 300 years

1020
00:40:15,969 --> 00:40:16,682
is a mystery?

1021
00:40:17,489 --> 00:40:20,896
Yes. But they surface now, we kinda open

1022
00:40:20,896 --> 00:40:22,560
them out now, and this is the story.

1023
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:23,432
They're telling us.

1024
00:40:25,518 --> 00:40:27,196
It is amazing. And that is 1 of

1025
00:40:27,196 --> 00:40:28,895
my questions for you is

1026
00:40:29,913 --> 00:40:32,231
what other insights can we get from kinda

1027
00:40:32,231 --> 00:40:34,400
tracing that chain of study. I mean, I

1028
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,070
know we know the early steps and we

1029
00:40:36,070 --> 00:40:38,139
obviously know where it ended up in Milan,

1030
00:40:38,775 --> 00:40:41,817
but are there other nodes or bullet points

1031
00:40:41,817 --> 00:40:43,892
on that chain of custody that you find

1032
00:40:43,892 --> 00:40:45,169
kinda curious or interesting?

1033
00:40:46,446 --> 00:40:48,601
I'm really at a loss to fill in

1034
00:40:48,601 --> 00:40:49,080
the gaps.

1035
00:40:49,972 --> 00:40:51,585
It's completely con.

1036
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:52,278
Mh.

1037
00:40:53,074 --> 00:40:55,380
And there's like 300 years where the deck

1038
00:40:55,380 --> 00:40:57,846
is just invisible. I mean it just disappears.

1039
00:40:58,817 --> 00:41:00,971
Based on certain marks, I mean, the deck

1040
00:41:00,971 --> 00:41:03,204
was a grade, right, and then they printed

1041
00:41:03,204 --> 00:41:03,922
the sheets.

1042
00:41:05,198 --> 00:41:07,751
And then 1 set of sheets were painted.

1043
00:41:08,324 --> 00:41:11,776
And delivered to person called Mara Sun

1044
00:41:12,712 --> 00:41:13,510
venetian patricia.

1045
00:41:14,467 --> 00:41:14,967
And

1046
00:41:15,439 --> 00:41:17,924
A curious thing about the marks that were

1047
00:41:18,059 --> 00:41:20,204
placed on the deck is that it identifies

1048
00:41:20,204 --> 00:41:20,363
him.

1049
00:41:21,078 --> 00:41:23,484
It identifies the fact that he was gay

1050
00:41:23,952 --> 00:41:26,601
and it identifies the fact that almost certainly,

1051
00:41:27,851 --> 00:41:30,101
the Fe were able to

1052
00:41:30,795 --> 00:41:32,147
manipulate him borne him.

1053
00:41:33,198 --> 00:41:34,476
Into betray Venice.

1054
00:41:35,114 --> 00:41:35,433
Mh.

1055
00:41:36,072 --> 00:41:38,727
So that the deck is like a payoff

1056
00:41:39,584 --> 00:41:42,944
in a very important operation that ferrari ran

1057
00:41:42,944 --> 00:41:43,658
against Venice,

1058
00:41:44,213 --> 00:41:46,434
and it's also a reminder to him that

1059
00:41:46,434 --> 00:41:48,995
at any time if he opens his mouth

1060
00:41:49,209 --> 00:41:49,709
or

1061
00:41:50,097 --> 00:41:50,914
stops cooperating.

1062
00:41:51,445 --> 00:41:53,032
They've got enough on him to see him

1063
00:41:53,032 --> 00:41:53,905
burn at the stake.

1064
00:41:55,175 --> 00:41:57,755
So does that level of historical

1065
00:41:58,295 --> 00:42:01,175
interpretation. Now, again, Mara Sun, who was he,

1066
00:42:01,335 --> 00:42:03,335
who were it... Well, his mother's family, the

1067
00:42:03,414 --> 00:42:04,295
V family.

1068
00:42:04,949 --> 00:42:07,581
And the venue claim to be descendants of

1069
00:42:07,581 --> 00:42:08,719
the Emperor Vale.

1070
00:42:10,053 --> 00:42:11,967
Okay? And then you check out the emperor

1071
00:42:12,047 --> 00:42:14,041
Vale, and it turns out is 1 of

1072
00:42:14,041 --> 00:42:15,275
the child sacrificing

1073
00:42:16,293 --> 00:42:16,793
emperors

1074
00:42:18,290 --> 00:42:21,566
of late rome. Nice. He was notorious for

1075
00:42:21,566 --> 00:42:22,045
it. Yeah.

1076
00:42:22,859 --> 00:42:24,695
And that brings you a back again to

1077
00:42:24,695 --> 00:42:26,690
the card in the deck showing the child

1078
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:28,846
over the fire. On what the heck is

1079
00:42:28,846 --> 00:42:29,643
going on here.

1080
00:42:31,813 --> 00:42:34,440
There's a disturbing aspect of this in in

1081
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,031
respect of the fact that all of the

1082
00:42:36,031 --> 00:42:38,737
court cards, the named court cards, 9 of

1083
00:42:38,737 --> 00:42:38,896
them.

1084
00:42:39,867 --> 00:42:42,676
All have 1 thing in common. They depict

1085
00:42:43,211 --> 00:42:43,711
figures

1086
00:42:44,088 --> 00:42:47,512
related to the conception of Alexander, the great.

1087
00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:51,018
Not to anything Alexander the great actually did,

1088
00:42:51,177 --> 00:42:53,160
Mh. You know, which is what most people

1089
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,619
are interested in, but to his conception,

1090
00:42:56,746 --> 00:42:59,317
And when you look into the Alexander Romance

1091
00:42:59,693 --> 00:43:01,546
literature, there's 1 characteristic

1092
00:43:02,002 --> 00:43:04,231
about his conception that stands out.

1093
00:43:05,043 --> 00:43:06,958
His mother's intercourse with Ba.

1094
00:43:08,953 --> 00:43:11,347
So the Alexander is like a demi guard,

1095
00:43:11,506 --> 00:43:11,745
you know?

1096
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,036
And again, this is 1 of the connections

1097
00:43:15,036 --> 00:43:17,992
that deeply woven into the texture of the

1098
00:43:17,992 --> 00:43:19,530
dex imagery and symbolism.

1099
00:43:20,003 --> 00:43:22,094
You know, connects saturn, Kronos,

1100
00:43:22,786 --> 00:43:27,103
the Draco force and the Carthaginian god Ba

1101
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:27,739
Ox

1102
00:43:28,209 --> 00:43:30,444
known for 1 thing or 1 thing alone.

1103
00:43:31,163 --> 00:43:33,558
This is the sacrifice of small children milk.

1104
00:43:33,797 --> 00:43:36,113
It was called, and it's from that word

1105
00:43:36,113 --> 00:43:38,044
milk that we get the name M in

1106
00:43:38,044 --> 00:43:38,682
the Bible.

1107
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:39,799
Wow.

1108
00:43:40,597 --> 00:43:43,629
So we have these blind spots in the

1109
00:43:43,629 --> 00:43:45,953
chain of custody of the deck. Can you

1110
00:43:45,953 --> 00:43:48,095
maybe tell us how it got out of

1111
00:43:48,095 --> 00:43:50,713
private hands and into the public sphere into

1112
00:43:50,713 --> 00:43:52,275
a museum? Well

1113
00:43:52,873 --> 00:43:55,108
let me just kinda touch on whatever I

1114
00:43:55,108 --> 00:43:57,263
do know, which is very little. So it

1115
00:43:57,263 --> 00:43:57,981
won't take long.

1116
00:43:58,940 --> 00:44:01,907
Mara Sun died in Venice in the early

1117
00:44:01,907 --> 00:44:02,863
sixteenth century,

1118
00:44:03,342 --> 00:44:05,892
and all his effects were auction at that

1119
00:44:05,892 --> 00:44:06,211
point.

1120
00:44:07,327 --> 00:44:10,131
Now, there's a jump of, like 2 or

1121
00:44:10,131 --> 00:44:14,133
300 years to a Milan family, the Marquis

1122
00:44:14,588 --> 00:44:15,088
Ser.

1123
00:44:16,259 --> 00:44:17,945
As far as I can held there's only

1124
00:44:17,945 --> 00:44:20,968
1 connection between the Ser and the venice

1125
00:44:20,968 --> 00:44:22,161
of the sixteenth century.

1126
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:24,707
There was 1 of the early members of

1127
00:44:24,866 --> 00:44:28,232
Ser family 2 brothers, in fact, 1 became

1128
00:44:28,232 --> 00:44:30,789
pope, the other became a notorious b,

1129
00:44:31,348 --> 00:44:32,088
and then

1130
00:44:32,626 --> 00:44:36,177
got promoted as a hit hitman for Francesco

1131
00:44:36,235 --> 00:44:36,635
sports.

1132
00:44:37,593 --> 00:44:39,988
So, you know, he was playing his trade,

1133
00:44:40,467 --> 00:44:43,282
and obviously got into trouble and had to

1134
00:44:43,341 --> 00:44:43,841
escape

1135
00:44:44,313 --> 00:44:46,378
And then he's documented in various parts of

1136
00:44:46,536 --> 00:44:49,395
Europe, you know, no doubt further enhancing his

1137
00:44:49,395 --> 00:44:51,380
skill set. And at some point in the

1138
00:44:51,380 --> 00:44:53,389
course of that, he got

1139
00:44:54,177 --> 00:44:54,677
special

1140
00:44:55,052 --> 00:44:55,552
recognition

1141
00:44:56,008 --> 00:44:58,340
from Venice for services rendered

1142
00:44:58,715 --> 00:44:58,875
with...

1143
00:45:00,228 --> 00:45:01,923
I I don't wanna speculate

1144
00:45:02,552 --> 00:45:04,696
on what they may have been, but it

1145
00:45:04,696 --> 00:45:05,808
kind of en noble him.

1146
00:45:06,603 --> 00:45:09,144
Wow. So that's the 1 connection. He would

1147
00:45:09,144 --> 00:45:11,368
have been in venice about the time that

1148
00:45:11,368 --> 00:45:13,853
the deck came on the market. It was

1149
00:45:13,853 --> 00:45:14,093
auction.

1150
00:45:15,449 --> 00:45:17,363
And as say the next thing is the

1151
00:45:17,363 --> 00:45:19,596
deck turns up in the hands of the

1152
00:45:19,755 --> 00:45:21,351
Marquis Ce baloney,

1153
00:45:22,004 --> 00:45:25,380
dated about 18 30, there's a anti query

1154
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:29,035
count Chicken who examined the cards at that

1155
00:45:29,035 --> 00:45:30,887
point. And saying they were in the hands

1156
00:45:30,887 --> 00:45:32,485
of the Marquis ser balloon.

1157
00:45:33,524 --> 00:45:34,024
And

1158
00:45:34,722 --> 00:45:36,320
rolling forward from that point,

1159
00:45:36,814 --> 00:45:38,751
a set of these cards were

1160
00:45:39,129 --> 00:45:39,629
sent

1161
00:45:40,007 --> 00:45:42,082
photographic images of the cards were set to

1162
00:45:42,082 --> 00:45:46,485
the British museum, that'd in 19 09I

1163
00:45:46,485 --> 00:45:49,430
think, and put on display there where Pamela

1164
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:52,318
Coleman Smith, the designer of the popular

1165
00:45:52,694 --> 00:45:55,501
wait Smith Taro deck would have seen them.

1166
00:45:56,379 --> 00:45:59,093
And its aspects of their imagery, which you

1167
00:45:59,093 --> 00:46:01,567
now find in pretty well every taro deck

1168
00:46:01,567 --> 00:46:02,525
in the world today.

1169
00:46:03,574 --> 00:46:05,424
So kind of unconsciously

1170
00:46:05,957 --> 00:46:06,457
propagated

1171
00:46:07,466 --> 00:46:10,984
the imagery solar bus into pretty well. Everybody's

1172
00:46:12,327 --> 00:46:14,316
taro tech. And that seems to be how

1173
00:46:14,316 --> 00:46:16,940
magic works. Right? I mean, these influences, the

1174
00:46:16,940 --> 00:46:19,508
power in them. They seem to kind of

1175
00:46:19,979 --> 00:46:21,896
spread out kind of spider web out even

1176
00:46:21,896 --> 00:46:23,654
if it's not obvious on the surface. That's

1177
00:46:23,654 --> 00:46:24,853
kind of an interesting aspect.

1178
00:46:25,891 --> 00:46:28,223
I think again, you know, from an esoteric

1179
00:46:28,223 --> 00:46:29,922
point of view, we have to

1180
00:46:30,301 --> 00:46:30,801
recognize

1181
00:46:31,180 --> 00:46:34,296
that when we talk about these energies or

1182
00:46:34,296 --> 00:46:34,775
powers,

1183
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:37,492
that are the subject of esoteric work.

1184
00:46:38,523 --> 00:46:41,007
Not many people talk about agency

1185
00:46:41,380 --> 00:46:42,277
in that context.

1186
00:46:43,064 --> 00:46:44,660
You know, most of us think of energy

1187
00:46:44,660 --> 00:46:46,336
is like the light switch. You switch it

1188
00:46:46,336 --> 00:46:48,331
on, you switch it off. You know, it

1189
00:46:48,331 --> 00:46:50,666
has rules. It basel the rules. But

1190
00:46:51,297 --> 00:46:53,864
In a east esoteric sense, these energies have

1191
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,907
agency. They're pretty well like you or me

1192
00:46:55,907 --> 00:46:56,861
in many respects,

1193
00:46:57,497 --> 00:46:59,904
and that is the way in which

1194
00:47:00,452 --> 00:47:02,592
the energies behind the deck would have been

1195
00:47:02,592 --> 00:47:04,415
interpreted in the fifteenth century.

1196
00:47:05,841 --> 00:47:07,530
Okay? It's it's not some

1197
00:47:07,917 --> 00:47:11,799
background buzz of energy. Right. It's an agency

1198
00:47:11,799 --> 00:47:12,036
work.

1199
00:47:12,671 --> 00:47:14,201
Okay? So and

1200
00:47:15,223 --> 00:47:17,774
that makes all the difference. If you start

1201
00:47:17,774 --> 00:47:18,274
conceptual

1202
00:47:18,970 --> 00:47:21,383
those energies working through history

1203
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,642
in terms of agency, then you have to

1204
00:47:24,642 --> 00:47:25,517
rethink a lot of stuff.

1205
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:27,348
No doubt.

1206
00:47:28,940 --> 00:47:29,258
Then,

1207
00:47:30,452 --> 00:47:32,223
so just to to follow up with the

1208
00:47:32,223 --> 00:47:34,561
the lineage of the cards. What's the

1209
00:47:35,019 --> 00:47:37,736
end book end for the path these cards

1210
00:47:37,736 --> 00:47:38,215
have taken?

1211
00:47:39,188 --> 00:47:40,087
Okay. So

1212
00:47:40,543 --> 00:47:43,753
around 19 88 or so a German

1213
00:47:44,210 --> 00:47:45,108
or Austrian

1214
00:47:45,804 --> 00:47:46,304
taro,

1215
00:47:47,173 --> 00:47:49,400
got permission to photograph the cars and he

1216
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,149
made a a reproduction deck.

1217
00:47:52,103 --> 00:47:52,841
And then

1218
00:47:53,614 --> 00:47:55,919
what, 2009

1219
00:47:55,919 --> 00:47:59,863
or so. The Italian state stepped in, Italian

1220
00:48:00,081 --> 00:48:02,816
ministry of culture stepped in and bought the

1221
00:48:03,034 --> 00:48:06,241
entire deck, I believe from the descendants of

1222
00:48:06,241 --> 00:48:07,439
the Ser family,

1223
00:48:08,077 --> 00:48:10,233
that is never stated. I believe that that's.

1224
00:48:10,791 --> 00:48:13,106
And they bought it for 800000

1225
00:48:13,106 --> 00:48:13,425
euro,

1226
00:48:14,237 --> 00:48:17,260
and it's now in the b gallery in

1227
00:48:17,579 --> 00:48:17,818
Milan.

1228
00:48:18,454 --> 00:48:19,250
It's held there.

1229
00:48:20,205 --> 00:48:21,215
K. And

1230
00:48:21,574 --> 00:48:23,652
our imagery in the book and as you

1231
00:48:23,652 --> 00:48:26,289
know, the scarlet imprint are about a start

1232
00:48:26,289 --> 00:48:27,429
shipping a

1233
00:48:27,887 --> 00:48:28,447
reproduction. Perfect.

1234
00:48:29,326 --> 00:48:31,652
Reproduction of this deck, The imagery is being

1235
00:48:31,652 --> 00:48:33,903
provided by the brow gallery to us.

1236
00:48:34,597 --> 00:48:36,426
To make the book and the deck. Okay?

1237
00:48:36,665 --> 00:48:38,495
So the that takes you right up to

1238
00:48:38,495 --> 00:48:38,654
date.

1239
00:48:39,703 --> 00:48:41,530
It's just... I love it, man. And it

1240
00:48:41,530 --> 00:48:43,619
just to find this evidence of a continuity

1241
00:48:44,073 --> 00:48:46,933
of elite power and a consistency of occult

1242
00:48:46,933 --> 00:48:49,731
beliefs among their ranks. Is mind blowing. And

1243
00:48:49,731 --> 00:48:51,583
it's really like what a conspiracy

1244
00:48:52,117 --> 00:48:54,186
ent has been looking for for a long

1245
00:48:54,186 --> 00:48:54,822
long time.

1246
00:48:55,713 --> 00:48:57,946
Yeah I think you gotta get into the

1247
00:48:57,946 --> 00:48:59,860
mindset, not just of the elite,

1248
00:49:00,657 --> 00:49:03,150
but of what I call hardcore isa esoteric

1249
00:49:03,368 --> 00:49:05,059
to get this stuff. You know?

1250
00:49:05,619 --> 00:49:05,940
Yes.

1251
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:07,000
And

1252
00:49:07,300 --> 00:49:08,260
on that subject,

1253
00:49:08,660 --> 00:49:10,039
you know, you mentioned satan,

1254
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:12,511
a little bit. Everybody knows Plato doh by

1255
00:49:12,511 --> 00:49:14,822
name, but it's really interesting because you talk

1256
00:49:14,822 --> 00:49:15,322
about

1257
00:49:15,699 --> 00:49:18,647
his philosophy really does have kind of a

1258
00:49:18,647 --> 00:49:20,440
linkage to empowering

1259
00:49:20,820 --> 00:49:23,460
the elite or justifying the elite power, and

1260
00:49:23,460 --> 00:49:26,519
that threat isn't usually highlighted when you're discussing

1261
00:49:26,755 --> 00:49:28,675
Plato in his philosophy, but that might be

1262
00:49:28,675 --> 00:49:31,315
why he is such a household name and

1263
00:49:31,315 --> 00:49:33,315
why he's kinda been held in such high

1264
00:49:33,315 --> 00:49:35,074
regarded. Because as far as the a leader

1265
00:49:35,074 --> 00:49:37,504
concerned, he provides a basis for

1266
00:49:38,196 --> 00:49:40,183
why they are at the top and we're

1267
00:49:40,183 --> 00:49:40,739
at the bottom.

1268
00:49:41,455 --> 00:49:43,124
Yeah. And I think the whole way in

1269
00:49:43,124 --> 00:49:43,624
which

1270
00:49:44,253 --> 00:49:47,126
Plato those work has been handled or or

1271
00:49:47,126 --> 00:49:47,626
treated

1272
00:49:48,005 --> 00:49:49,702
and certainly by educational

1273
00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:51,617
institutions has varied enormously

1274
00:49:52,329 --> 00:49:54,401
there's like, you know, before the church, and

1275
00:49:54,401 --> 00:49:56,654
after the church, you know? So

1276
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:59,443
in the ancient world, Plato those

1277
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:02,693
teachings where from a very early dates.

1278
00:50:03,328 --> 00:50:05,154
You know, he has all these dialogues. There

1279
00:50:05,154 --> 00:50:07,060
must be what, 30, 40 dialogues.

1280
00:50:08,108 --> 00:50:11,289
People were coming up for ideal sequences in

1281
00:50:11,289 --> 00:50:12,902
which to study these dialogues.

1282
00:50:13,595 --> 00:50:13,754
Okay?

1283
00:50:14,629 --> 00:50:17,191
But they always started with the same dialogue,

1284
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:17,930
A.

1285
00:50:19,183 --> 00:50:20,139
Now why is that?

1286
00:50:20,777 --> 00:50:21,277
A

1287
00:50:22,132 --> 00:50:23,748
deals with 1 thing only

1288
00:50:24,219 --> 00:50:25,834
and that is, a

1289
00:50:26,210 --> 00:50:27,428
is a very

1290
00:50:27,963 --> 00:50:28,782
rich kid

1291
00:50:29,238 --> 00:50:32,357
who... His parents have died He doesn't actually

1292
00:50:32,357 --> 00:50:34,366
have a clear sense of

1293
00:50:34,819 --> 00:50:37,282
what's what. But he wants to make his

1294
00:50:37,282 --> 00:50:39,639
mark on society and because of his wealth

1295
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:42,317
he's gonna enter the political process in Athens.

1296
00:50:42,716 --> 00:50:46,073
Okay? So that... That's the scenario that a

1297
00:50:46,073 --> 00:50:48,151
bai the dialogue sets up for us.

1298
00:50:49,604 --> 00:50:50,503
In his

1299
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,234
discourse or his dialogue with socrates. Socrates is

1300
00:50:54,234 --> 00:50:56,309
tempting to say to him. You're looking for

1301
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:57,448
self ag.

1302
00:50:58,878 --> 00:51:00,550
But what about service?

1303
00:51:01,903 --> 00:51:02,881
Okay? So

1304
00:51:03,256 --> 00:51:05,348
the whole theme of the plato

1305
00:51:05,804 --> 00:51:08,210
dialogues it They they touch on many things,

1306
00:51:08,369 --> 00:51:09,167
you know, Ethics,

1307
00:51:09,646 --> 00:51:12,538
theory of knowledge, you name it. But ultimately,

1308
00:51:12,916 --> 00:51:16,346
it's how can an elite, govern society Just.

1309
00:51:17,076 --> 00:51:19,005
This is the core issue of pla.

1310
00:51:19,855 --> 00:51:21,626
And in order to be able to

1311
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:22,579
just

1312
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:24,302
run a society,

1313
00:51:24,873 --> 00:51:27,021
You have to be entitled to do so.

1314
00:51:27,498 --> 00:51:29,964
You have to be totally selfless, blah, blah

1315
00:51:29,964 --> 00:51:31,690
blah. K? And part of that

1316
00:51:32,207 --> 00:51:32,867
Plato those

1317
00:51:33,243 --> 00:51:36,271
recommendations is that the elite should sacrifice or

1318
00:51:36,271 --> 00:51:39,218
wealth and power. They shouldn't hold any property

1319
00:51:39,218 --> 00:51:39,696
for instance.

1320
00:51:40,413 --> 00:51:40,971
No money.

1321
00:51:41,623 --> 00:51:43,135
They shouldn't inherit anything.

1322
00:51:43,851 --> 00:51:46,319
They have to be solely dedicated to justice.

1323
00:51:46,876 --> 00:51:50,162
And part of becoming just is to become

1324
00:51:50,299 --> 00:51:50,799
enlightened

1325
00:51:51,428 --> 00:51:52,464
in your person,

1326
00:51:54,297 --> 00:51:57,326
selfless and enlightened. This is the plato ideal

1327
00:51:57,326 --> 00:51:58,043
for the elite.

1328
00:51:59,492 --> 00:52:01,642
Now you can see how far away we

1329
00:52:01,642 --> 00:52:02,142
offer

1330
00:52:02,518 --> 00:52:02,996
absolutely.

1331
00:52:03,713 --> 00:52:06,602
Getting anywhere near that, but that was the

1332
00:52:06,978 --> 00:52:07,376
inspiration there.

1333
00:52:08,106 --> 00:52:09,560
And in order to

1334
00:52:10,252 --> 00:52:11,706
project that kind of

1335
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:12,739
justice

1336
00:52:13,112 --> 00:52:15,043
forward through the generations

1337
00:52:15,434 --> 00:52:18,251
Plato elaborated this system of meta

1338
00:52:19,189 --> 00:52:21,766
and spiritual internal growth

1339
00:52:22,145 --> 00:52:24,954
so that you know, within the photon tradition,

1340
00:52:25,433 --> 00:52:26,492
they had this phrase

1341
00:52:26,869 --> 00:52:27,369
h,

1342
00:52:28,784 --> 00:52:30,220
the the ill ones.

1343
00:52:30,713 --> 00:52:34,054
People would actually seek to become ill in

1344
00:52:34,054 --> 00:52:37,338
their inner nature. And therefore capable of

1345
00:52:37,808 --> 00:52:38,683
dealing just,

1346
00:52:39,638 --> 00:52:40,991
out of their very essence.

1347
00:52:42,105 --> 00:52:44,413
And because they don't have these family ties,

1348
00:52:44,572 --> 00:52:46,004
these wealth, this property,

1349
00:52:47,053 --> 00:52:48,562
they just do watch right.

1350
00:52:49,277 --> 00:52:51,501
Okay. This was the plato ideal.

1351
00:52:52,295 --> 00:52:54,677
Now the esoteric aspects of that is that

1352
00:52:54,677 --> 00:52:57,418
such an looming elite would also

1353
00:52:57,795 --> 00:52:59,869
have the highest connection with the day it

1354
00:52:59,869 --> 00:53:02,262
and so on. So they would drive the

1355
00:53:02,262 --> 00:53:04,836
process of subsequent meta psychosis

1356
00:53:05,213 --> 00:53:07,060
of rebirth if you like. Mh.

1357
00:53:07,617 --> 00:53:09,705
Okay? So it become a self per

1358
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:10,659
mechanism.

1359
00:53:11,350 --> 00:53:13,416
Now somewhere along the line, Greg.

1360
00:53:15,179 --> 00:53:16,716
This idea of dropping

1361
00:53:17,254 --> 00:53:20,206
wealth property and family ties and not having

1362
00:53:20,206 --> 00:53:22,521
them to influence your justice.

1363
00:53:23,254 --> 00:53:24,850
Got lost. I'd say so.

1364
00:53:27,404 --> 00:53:29,479
And I think it got lost very early

1365
00:53:29,479 --> 00:53:30,517
in human history.

1366
00:53:31,728 --> 00:53:35,012
So we're living essentially with a dark platinum.

1367
00:53:36,261 --> 00:53:38,090
It was not intended. I mean, as far

1368
00:53:38,090 --> 00:53:40,817
as Plato doh Tam is concerned, the dam

1369
00:53:40,873 --> 00:53:41,485
is a

1370
00:53:42,081 --> 00:53:44,411
a deity who was filled with light

1371
00:53:44,945 --> 00:53:46,081
is not a dark

1372
00:53:46,695 --> 00:53:47,252
entity at all.

1373
00:53:48,699 --> 00:53:50,848
He looks towards the source, you know, of

1374
00:53:50,848 --> 00:53:51,326
everything.

1375
00:53:51,963 --> 00:53:53,953
Plato called it. The good is. It's like

1376
00:53:53,953 --> 00:53:54,851
an imp

1377
00:53:56,103 --> 00:53:56,603
source

1378
00:53:56,993 --> 00:53:58,824
and it it's he's filled with the beauty

1379
00:53:58,824 --> 00:54:01,769
of that and turns and then creates after

1380
00:54:01,769 --> 00:54:03,043
the manner of that.

1381
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:03,998
Now,

1382
00:54:05,287 --> 00:54:08,018
This is like fourth fifth century Bce.

1383
00:54:08,953 --> 00:54:10,627
And then by the time we get to

1384
00:54:10,627 --> 00:54:12,322
the first and second centuries

1385
00:54:12,873 --> 00:54:15,847
Bce, and the first and second century ce.

1386
00:54:16,783 --> 00:54:19,416
This dam has now flipped over.

1387
00:54:20,945 --> 00:54:24,310
He's become a dark entity, ignorant entity that

1388
00:54:24,526 --> 00:54:27,392
refuses to acknowledge the source of his own

1389
00:54:27,392 --> 00:54:27,631
power.

1390
00:54:28,521 --> 00:54:30,613
And thinks that he is the ultimate

1391
00:54:31,626 --> 00:54:32,922
in terms of creativity.

1392
00:54:33,536 --> 00:54:36,481
Everything is behold to him and everything is

1393
00:54:36,481 --> 00:54:37,118
owed to him.

1394
00:54:38,009 --> 00:54:40,327
And this darken of the figure of the

1395
00:54:40,327 --> 00:54:41,945
dam is a historical

1396
00:54:42,804 --> 00:54:45,281
fact, which I don't think anyone has given

1397
00:54:45,281 --> 00:54:46,480
an explanation of.

1398
00:54:47,054 --> 00:54:48,329
Yeah. It's very curious.

1399
00:54:49,206 --> 00:54:53,134
It's absolutely central to the understanding of how

1400
00:54:53,272 --> 00:54:54,786
things got flipped over.

1401
00:54:55,756 --> 00:54:57,744
Because from this point on, you know, you

1402
00:54:57,744 --> 00:54:59,436
have agnostic cosmology

1403
00:54:59,890 --> 00:55:01,503
all identify dark

1404
00:55:02,036 --> 00:55:04,421
at the need to liberate yourself from him.

1405
00:55:05,471 --> 00:55:08,257
And therefore that gives rise to a dark

1406
00:55:08,257 --> 00:55:08,757
no,

1407
00:55:09,291 --> 00:55:10,030
which is

1408
00:55:10,565 --> 00:55:12,418
acknowledging the dark dam

1409
00:55:12,793 --> 00:55:14,226
and working with him.

1410
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:18,739
K. Right. But this is a historical phenomenon.

1411
00:55:19,119 --> 00:55:21,519
It it was certainly never like that in

1412
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:23,519
the original plato photon writing.

1413
00:55:24,572 --> 00:55:26,405
I can't say 1 thing though, and maybe

1414
00:55:26,405 --> 00:55:27,463
this will help to

1415
00:55:27,999 --> 00:55:29,694
contextualize it is that

1416
00:55:30,628 --> 00:55:32,558
we can't just look at plato though, or

1417
00:55:32,558 --> 00:55:34,097
we cannot just look at offers

1418
00:55:34,715 --> 00:55:36,973
you know, there's a whole range of theo

1419
00:55:38,550 --> 00:55:40,954
like He theo, you know, the birth of

1420
00:55:40,954 --> 00:55:42,068
all the different gods.

1421
00:55:42,783 --> 00:55:43,283
And

1422
00:55:43,896 --> 00:55:46,043
throughout the Mediterranean basin, you have a lot

1423
00:55:46,043 --> 00:55:46,702
of different

1424
00:55:47,235 --> 00:55:47,951
creation stories.

1425
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:52,131
K? Mh. So you get a very mixed

1426
00:55:53,067 --> 00:55:54,502
bowl of starting points.

1427
00:55:55,539 --> 00:55:57,533
And depending on the starting point, you take

1428
00:55:57,533 --> 00:55:58,625
you end up in

1429
00:55:58,983 --> 00:55:59,701
different place.

1430
00:56:01,217 --> 00:56:01,717
Now

1431
00:56:02,094 --> 00:56:05,864
for the were renaissance lead, their key influence

1432
00:56:05,922 --> 00:56:07,518
if I'm right, it was it was George

1433
00:56:07,677 --> 00:56:08,177
Gym.

1434
00:56:09,048 --> 00:56:10,963
Better known as plato. Mh.

1435
00:56:11,521 --> 00:56:14,871
And his conception was that he took a

1436
00:56:14,871 --> 00:56:15,371
classical

1437
00:56:15,828 --> 00:56:16,966
Greek or hell

1438
00:56:17,583 --> 00:56:18,083
theo

1439
00:56:19,034 --> 00:56:21,594
he says there's, you know, absolute 3 entities,

1440
00:56:21,755 --> 00:56:23,835
you know, like a zoo poseidon and and

1441
00:56:23,835 --> 00:56:25,775
and and he said her party

1442
00:56:26,889 --> 00:56:29,605
And beneath them, you have a set of

1443
00:56:29,605 --> 00:56:30,105
celestial

1444
00:56:30,804 --> 00:56:31,304
deities,

1445
00:56:31,842 --> 00:56:33,760
and a set of cath deities.

1446
00:56:34,414 --> 00:56:36,324
And the canon deities these are ruled by

1447
00:56:36,483 --> 00:56:36,881
Saturn,

1448
00:56:37,358 --> 00:56:38,552
and they run the planet.

1449
00:56:39,587 --> 00:56:41,497
Okay? They run this planet. Mh.

1450
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:43,289
So his

1451
00:56:43,989 --> 00:56:45,449
again is is a little

1452
00:56:45,909 --> 00:56:46,889
different from

1453
00:56:47,429 --> 00:56:49,589
what Plato it originally set out.

1454
00:56:50,964 --> 00:56:53,764
But it does just towards the p of

1455
00:56:53,764 --> 00:56:55,385
saturn in the world.

1456
00:56:56,404 --> 00:56:58,484
K? And that's why I take place on

1457
00:56:58,484 --> 00:56:59,764
like the stepping up point.

1458
00:57:00,498 --> 00:57:03,674
From ancient tradition into this what we call

1459
00:57:03,674 --> 00:57:05,501
the modern world a pre modern world of

1460
00:57:05,501 --> 00:57:06,295
the Renaissance.

1461
00:57:06,930 --> 00:57:09,574
And that, that's why Saturn features so

1462
00:57:09,963 --> 00:57:10,463
highly

1463
00:57:11,318 --> 00:57:14,665
within subsequent Mob history, I think. Mh.

1464
00:57:15,223 --> 00:57:16,896
Yeah. It is... It's so hard to get

1465
00:57:16,896 --> 00:57:20,514
a real sense of why that polar opposite

1466
00:57:21,207 --> 00:57:22,503
view would be taken

1467
00:57:22,878 --> 00:57:23,855
on the

1468
00:57:24,483 --> 00:57:26,307
d or just to say the creator of

1469
00:57:26,307 --> 00:57:29,478
the material world. Like, it's also just hard

1470
00:57:29,478 --> 00:57:30,827
to wrap your head around because this is

1471
00:57:30,827 --> 00:57:32,040
an entity that

1472
00:57:32,666 --> 00:57:35,050
Today, it's like we can't really see. We

1473
00:57:35,050 --> 00:57:36,797
feel like we can't see it or we

1474
00:57:36,797 --> 00:57:38,148
feel like we can't really get a handle

1475
00:57:38,148 --> 00:57:40,744
on something that's so outside of ourself, but

1476
00:57:41,104 --> 00:57:42,242
they seemed to

1477
00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:45,174
find some clues to kinda draw conclusions on

1478
00:57:45,174 --> 00:57:47,968
or to build a personality profile back in

1479
00:57:47,968 --> 00:57:49,818
the day. And then for it to go

1480
00:57:49,818 --> 00:57:51,814
the complete polar opposite way. It's just so

1481
00:57:51,814 --> 00:57:52,134
curious.

1482
00:57:53,251 --> 00:57:54,949
It is strange. And

1483
00:57:56,045 --> 00:57:58,121
again, you know, it's it's like the answers

1484
00:57:58,121 --> 00:58:00,310
are not gonna be found in

1485
00:58:00,845 --> 00:58:02,460
digging through these theo.

1486
00:58:04,347 --> 00:58:06,757
We have to think about our own

1487
00:58:07,292 --> 00:58:07,792
specific

1488
00:58:08,247 --> 00:58:08,747
situation

1489
00:58:09,219 --> 00:58:09,618
now,

1490
00:58:10,815 --> 00:58:13,209
and what priorities we have and what what

1491
00:58:13,209 --> 00:58:15,364
we have to work on. I think the

1492
00:58:15,364 --> 00:58:18,012
issue is centrally a moral issue. That we're

1493
00:58:18,012 --> 00:58:18,889
faced with today.

1494
00:58:19,527 --> 00:58:22,078
Mh. So whether you accept the existence of

1495
00:58:22,078 --> 00:58:25,108
a dam or not is kind of beside

1496
00:58:25,108 --> 00:58:25,586
the point,

1497
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:29,746
Mh. The energies that people work on or

1498
00:58:29,746 --> 00:58:31,044
with in practice

1499
00:58:31,740 --> 00:58:33,334
are of a much lower order.

1500
00:58:35,182 --> 00:58:37,012
So that what we're faced with is a

1501
00:58:37,012 --> 00:58:39,000
far localized issue. Mh.

1502
00:58:39,557 --> 00:58:41,228
It's in my perspective,

1503
00:58:42,038 --> 00:58:44,050
I see it as an inter interdimensional

1504
00:58:44,824 --> 00:58:47,848
penetration of this reality by other realities. Wow.

1505
00:58:48,246 --> 00:58:49,702
And a multitude

1506
00:58:50,396 --> 00:58:52,423
multiple orders of beings.

1507
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:53,840
Okay?

1508
00:58:54,797 --> 00:58:55,297
So

1509
00:58:56,075 --> 00:58:57,751
in a sense, the issue is far more

1510
00:58:57,751 --> 00:59:00,407
complicated, but it's it's far less theoretical.

1511
00:59:02,068 --> 00:59:04,922
So coming from background of energy healing,

1512
00:59:05,794 --> 00:59:07,617
you tend to get the extreme cases.

1513
00:59:08,583 --> 00:59:10,014
I mean, it's like if you work in

1514
00:59:10,014 --> 00:59:13,192
the accident and emergency award Friday night. Okay.

1515
00:59:13,431 --> 00:59:15,758
Saturday night, you're gonna see

1516
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:20,085
extreme cases. And in sense energy healing also

1517
00:59:20,144 --> 00:59:20,964
brings you

1518
00:59:21,343 --> 00:59:23,900
confront you with pretty extreme cases.

1519
00:59:24,474 --> 00:59:26,944
And from that, I draw the conclusion that

1520
00:59:26,944 --> 00:59:28,559
we we have a say this

1521
00:59:28,936 --> 00:59:29,436
into

1522
00:59:29,813 --> 00:59:30,791
penetration of multiple

1523
00:59:31,167 --> 00:59:31,486
dimensions.

1524
00:59:32,454 --> 00:59:34,143
And the crossover

1525
00:59:34,673 --> 00:59:38,081
on occasion of entities between these dimensions.

1526
00:59:39,684 --> 00:59:41,602
And I think the anchoring is the fact

1527
00:59:41,602 --> 00:59:44,479
that our our... The consciousness is in my

1528
00:59:44,479 --> 00:59:45,438
perspective a field.

1529
00:59:45,997 --> 00:59:47,835
You know, it's not a product of your

1530
00:59:47,835 --> 00:59:50,088
neural activity. Right. It's a feel like,

1531
00:59:50,887 --> 00:59:52,665
a thing which has a a family

1532
00:59:53,044 --> 00:59:56,261
context. It has a community. It has historical

1533
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:56,720
context.

1534
00:59:57,214 --> 00:59:59,532
It's much as though everything that Sa thought

1535
00:59:59,532 --> 01:00:02,488
or done coexist at the same time, and

1536
01:00:02,488 --> 01:00:05,045
that's the way we experience consciousness when we

1537
01:00:05,045 --> 01:00:08,561
work with it. In energetic way. I'm thinking

1538
01:00:08,561 --> 01:00:09,458
in terms of

1539
01:00:10,228 --> 01:00:13,246
constellation therapy, of course. Mh. You know, you

1540
01:00:13,246 --> 01:00:15,152
get complete strangers in the middle of the

1541
01:00:15,152 --> 01:00:16,543
room. You put them in

1542
01:00:17,001 --> 01:00:19,795
some positions to represent family members even if

1543
01:00:19,795 --> 01:00:22,429
the family members are dead gone a hundred

1544
01:00:22,429 --> 01:00:23,546
years ago, doesn't matter.

1545
01:00:24,439 --> 01:00:26,993
Those people will start to manifest the thoughts

1546
01:00:26,993 --> 01:00:30,047
behavior and feelings of the people they're representing

1547
01:00:30,425 --> 01:00:32,580
even though they know nothing about them. Wow.

1548
01:00:33,074 --> 01:00:35,414
So, you know, I mean, I would recommend

1549
01:00:35,554 --> 01:00:37,574
anyone to go along to half a dozen

1550
01:00:37,715 --> 01:00:40,114
sessions of constellation therapy and just try it

1551
01:00:40,114 --> 01:00:42,597
out. It's gonna change your views of reality.

1552
01:00:43,154 --> 01:00:45,461
That's than anything I know. Wow.

1553
01:00:46,734 --> 01:00:47,234
So

1554
01:00:47,624 --> 01:00:49,699
other cases where we have 1 on 1

1555
01:00:49,699 --> 01:00:52,491
healing, you know, we have people who've deceased

1556
01:00:52,491 --> 01:00:54,565
coming through to help in the healing process.

1557
01:00:55,379 --> 01:00:58,335
Other times I've dealt with very very very

1558
01:00:58,335 --> 01:00:59,474
dangerous and difficult

1559
01:00:59,933 --> 01:01:01,851
entities that's to haunt people.

1560
01:01:02,490 --> 01:01:02,730
Wow.

1561
01:01:03,544 --> 01:01:04,603
A very abusive

1562
01:01:05,222 --> 01:01:07,778
relationship, you know. You remember this film the

1563
01:01:07,778 --> 01:01:07,938
entity.

1564
01:01:08,737 --> 01:01:08,977
Yes.

1565
01:01:10,909 --> 01:01:13,461
Some... Yeah, There's some very dark stuff going

1566
01:01:13,461 --> 01:01:15,614
on. And there's some very bright stuff as

1567
01:01:15,614 --> 01:01:15,933
well.

1568
01:01:16,970 --> 01:01:19,442
You know, the role of higher order beings

1569
01:01:19,442 --> 01:01:20,215
is not

1570
01:01:21,291 --> 01:01:24,560
sufficiently taken account of in my experience in

1571
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,829
this conspiracy world. Mh. People are very much

1572
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:28,967
focused on docks,

1573
01:01:29,438 --> 01:01:31,342
which is there. There's no doubt about it.

1574
01:01:32,531 --> 01:01:35,228
It's dangerous. It's dark, but it's not the

1575
01:01:35,228 --> 01:01:37,235
whole story. Right. And

1576
01:01:37,703 --> 01:01:40,970
ability to cleanse and purify yourself and make

1577
01:01:40,970 --> 01:01:43,998
connection with higher older beings is always an

1578
01:01:43,998 --> 01:01:45,114
option. Mh.

1579
01:01:45,592 --> 01:01:49,052
It's an option everyone. And it brings extraordinary

1580
01:01:49,586 --> 01:01:50,086
confidence

1581
01:01:50,619 --> 01:01:51,255
and strength.

1582
01:01:52,050 --> 01:01:54,697
Yeah. That... I mean, it sounds so interesting

1583
01:01:54,754 --> 01:01:57,473
and it's something I'd like to experience more

1584
01:01:57,473 --> 01:01:59,780
and experiment with more, and it just seems

1585
01:01:59,780 --> 01:02:01,473
like when you trace the

1586
01:02:01,927 --> 01:02:04,327
evolution of Ideas and things that have been

1587
01:02:04,327 --> 01:02:06,712
projected into the culture. It's like, this most

1588
01:02:06,712 --> 01:02:08,007
recent round of

1589
01:02:08,381 --> 01:02:11,163
material science of atheism. I mean, this is

1590
01:02:11,163 --> 01:02:14,452
like, a deception that gets the culture even

1591
01:02:14,452 --> 01:02:16,230
further away from

1592
01:02:16,929 --> 01:02:18,766
not only the things you're talking about that

1593
01:02:18,766 --> 01:02:20,777
just seem to be part of reality structure,

1594
01:02:20,936 --> 01:02:22,684
but even the elite belief systems that are

1595
01:02:22,684 --> 01:02:24,989
hidden behind the curtain, it's just another layer

1596
01:02:24,989 --> 01:02:27,293
of separation, it seems to be like 1

1597
01:02:27,293 --> 01:02:29,414
of the biggest perceptions of our time that

1598
01:02:29,614 --> 01:02:31,789
any intelligent person would be a

1599
01:02:32,166 --> 01:02:34,478
material atheist because that's the view that, you

1600
01:02:34,478 --> 01:02:36,870
know, I kinda grew up with and adopted

1601
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:39,597
and then discard after a crazy psychedelic trip

1602
01:02:39,597 --> 01:02:41,670
that showed that wasn't true, but it just

1603
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:44,382
seems like a major deception to inject that

1604
01:02:44,382 --> 01:02:46,456
type of worldview because it's further and further

1605
01:02:46,456 --> 01:02:48,290
away from the stuff we're talking about.

1606
01:02:49,181 --> 01:02:52,209
Yeah. As well. Just as a an aside

1607
01:02:52,209 --> 01:02:53,882
to that, I think you have to be

1608
01:02:53,882 --> 01:02:55,317
careful as well when you deal with a

1609
01:02:55,317 --> 01:02:58,130
lot of conspiracy stuff. It also tends to

1610
01:02:58,130 --> 01:03:00,849
depress you. Sure. So it actually closes down

1611
01:03:00,849 --> 01:03:01,570
your awareness,

1612
01:03:01,969 --> 01:03:04,210
and it it it takes something away from

1613
01:03:04,210 --> 01:03:07,200
you it's still something from you. Okay? So

1614
01:03:07,338 --> 01:03:09,811
unless you're doing the compensatory work on the

1615
01:03:09,811 --> 01:03:10,449
light side,

1616
01:03:11,326 --> 01:03:13,182
unless you're engaged in serious

1617
01:03:13,559 --> 01:03:14,516
meaningful work,

1618
01:03:15,170 --> 01:03:16,928
you know, like you do something in the

1619
01:03:16,928 --> 01:03:18,467
community, which is meaningful

1620
01:03:19,245 --> 01:03:21,403
unless you're taken a lot of care with

1621
01:03:21,403 --> 01:03:22,442
what you eat and drink.

1622
01:03:23,321 --> 01:03:24,360
You're gonna get bored.

1623
01:03:25,333 --> 01:03:27,747
You know, that the strong dark occurrence

1624
01:03:28,364 --> 01:03:32,192
can carry most people along. Right. So you

1625
01:03:32,192 --> 01:03:34,106
need to do a lot of recovery work

1626
01:03:34,106 --> 01:03:36,511
on your often and people around you. I

1627
01:03:36,511 --> 01:03:38,660
guess, I've been very fortunate, you know, I've

1628
01:03:38,660 --> 01:03:41,151
had the opportunity to see some very light

1629
01:03:41,606 --> 01:03:42,322
entities at work.

1630
01:03:43,134 --> 01:03:45,208
And that is encouraged me to say these

1631
01:03:45,208 --> 01:03:46,085
things to be honest.

1632
01:03:46,963 --> 01:03:49,515
Sure. Yeah. That's something we definitely don't hear

1633
01:03:49,515 --> 01:03:50,871
about that often? Can you give us, like,

1634
01:03:51,110 --> 01:03:53,755
an example or or 2 of the light

1635
01:03:53,755 --> 01:03:54,949
side of these entities?

1636
01:03:55,904 --> 01:03:58,132
I'll tell you 1 very stressed story because,

1637
01:03:58,212 --> 01:04:00,655
you know, baffled me as well. I was

1638
01:04:01,012 --> 01:04:02,680
this was about 20 years ago. I was

1639
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,666
dragged the along to see this guy, Tom

1640
01:04:04,905 --> 01:04:07,447
Canyon. I'd never heard of him. And he

1641
01:04:07,447 --> 01:04:10,873
was apparently channel these These entities called the

1642
01:04:10,952 --> 01:04:11,452
Hath,

1643
01:04:12,299 --> 01:04:14,042
and my eyes were just like rolled up,

1644
01:04:14,201 --> 01:04:14,438
you know.

1645
01:04:16,673 --> 01:04:18,668
So I... I said okay. I went along

1646
01:04:18,668 --> 01:04:20,582
with this gang, you know, We're sitting there

1647
01:04:20,582 --> 01:04:21,140
in this, like,

1648
01:04:21,778 --> 01:04:22,278
amp,

1649
01:04:23,134 --> 01:04:25,128
and Tom's sitting on the chair down on

1650
01:04:25,128 --> 01:04:27,539
the stage, you know? And he starts singing.

1651
01:04:27,940 --> 01:04:30,179
Well, this guy has I know 10 octave

1652
01:04:30,179 --> 01:04:32,739
taste to his voice. It is absolutely stunning,

1653
01:04:33,059 --> 01:04:33,380
Beautiful.

1654
01:04:34,259 --> 01:04:36,431
And This was going on. All of a

1655
01:04:36,431 --> 01:04:39,545
sudden, I saw arranged in front of him,

1656
01:04:40,343 --> 01:04:43,057
6 beautiful white columns of light.

1657
01:04:45,145 --> 01:04:46,891
And they were like glittering, you know? And

1658
01:04:46,891 --> 01:04:48,956
these were, like, 5 or 6 meters high.

1659
01:04:50,702 --> 01:04:52,290
And know I was just like, whoa.

1660
01:04:53,005 --> 01:04:56,039
Is wow. Was like an overlay on reality.

1661
01:04:56,437 --> 01:04:57,391
That's a strange thing.

1662
01:04:58,503 --> 01:05:00,888
And then these figures the these columns just

1663
01:05:00,888 --> 01:05:02,659
drifted it out off the apron

1664
01:05:03,128 --> 01:05:05,597
and through the audience and disappeared, you know?

1665
01:05:06,552 --> 01:05:08,542
And laid on in in this...

1666
01:05:09,259 --> 01:05:11,764
I it's not a performance, but whatever

1667
01:05:12,216 --> 01:05:15,074
Tom Canyon is doing with these entities. Is

1668
01:05:15,074 --> 01:05:16,742
apparently is getting advice and stuff.

1669
01:05:17,615 --> 01:05:19,282
Somebody in the audience say, well, what did

1670
01:05:19,282 --> 01:05:22,010
these hath look like and and Tom Me

1671
01:05:22,010 --> 01:05:24,170
cell when they manifest, he says, you'll see

1672
01:05:24,170 --> 01:05:26,010
them as tall white columns of light.

1673
01:05:26,890 --> 01:05:28,969
And that's exactly what I saw over there.

1674
01:05:29,449 --> 01:05:29,949
So

1675
01:05:31,138 --> 01:05:32,967
Why I I was chosen to see these

1676
01:05:32,967 --> 01:05:33,842
things. I don't know.

1677
01:05:34,717 --> 01:05:37,125
I am a bit sensitive to energies, but

1678
01:05:37,341 --> 01:05:38,057
there they were.

1679
01:05:38,629 --> 01:05:39,347
There they were.

1680
01:05:40,223 --> 01:05:42,297
Wow. And the advice they give, you know,

1681
01:05:42,456 --> 01:05:44,369
I checked Tom stuff every now and again.

1682
01:05:44,529 --> 01:05:46,842
It... It's all about ascension. It's all about,

1683
01:05:46,921 --> 01:05:48,130
you know, cleansing,

1684
01:05:48,688 --> 01:05:50,915
purifying the channels and so on and, you

1685
01:05:50,915 --> 01:05:52,824
know, it's all good clean stuff. There's no

1686
01:05:52,824 --> 01:05:53,540
doubt about it,

1687
01:05:54,255 --> 01:05:57,058
but if these higher order beings are indeed

1688
01:05:57,058 --> 01:05:58,731
there, and it looks like to me as

1689
01:05:58,731 --> 01:06:01,598
though they are, then there's some restrictions on

1690
01:06:01,598 --> 01:06:02,634
what they can do.

1691
01:06:03,844 --> 01:06:07,106
On this plane. Mh. And I would suggest

1692
01:06:07,106 --> 01:06:08,164
that each person's

1693
01:06:08,619 --> 01:06:11,802
moral or ethical behavior is the core or

1694
01:06:11,802 --> 01:06:12,836
the limiting factor.

1695
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,625
And I remember, Martin luther King said, you

1696
01:06:17,625 --> 01:06:18,443
know, the

1697
01:06:18,978 --> 01:06:21,285
trajectory the off of the universe is long,

1698
01:06:21,444 --> 01:06:23,775
he says, but it bends towards justice.

1699
01:06:24,734 --> 01:06:25,234
And

1700
01:06:25,694 --> 01:06:28,094
that's what I see in the constellation therapy

1701
01:06:28,094 --> 01:06:29,554
that we do that

1702
01:06:29,868 --> 01:06:33,762
the core disturbances in reality arise from some

1703
01:06:33,762 --> 01:06:34,874
form of injustice.

1704
01:06:35,828 --> 01:06:36,884
And when you

1705
01:06:37,675 --> 01:06:39,675
expedite that injustice When you correct it,

1706
01:06:40,315 --> 01:06:41,914
you harmon the fields.

1707
01:06:44,074 --> 01:06:47,447
So there's an ongoing task that energy healer

1708
01:06:47,447 --> 01:06:49,223
are are embarked upon

1709
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:53,268
on a personal on a community level. We're

1710
01:06:53,268 --> 01:06:55,875
trying to create that justice. We're trying to

1711
01:06:56,232 --> 01:06:56,732
eradicate

1712
01:06:57,978 --> 01:07:00,994
the cramp and the squeezes and everything within

1713
01:07:00,994 --> 01:07:02,367
the fields of consciousness

1714
01:07:02,899 --> 01:07:04,169
arising from injustice.

1715
01:07:04,979 --> 01:07:06,037
And it's injustice

1716
01:07:06,414 --> 01:07:09,285
seems to me the core characteristic of the

1717
01:07:09,285 --> 01:07:09,524
elite.

1718
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,192
Agreed and such a noble goal that you're

1719
01:07:13,192 --> 01:07:13,671
working with.

1720
01:07:14,404 --> 01:07:16,642
So this is the work. Greg, You know,

1721
01:07:16,802 --> 01:07:18,480
you you you get on, and you do

1722
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,238
the work and and in doing that work,

1723
01:07:20,797 --> 01:07:23,455
you rise above the fear and

1724
01:07:24,483 --> 01:07:24,983
pessimism

1725
01:07:26,229 --> 01:07:27,736
arising from the darkness.

1726
01:07:28,609 --> 01:07:30,513
Well said, yeah. You can only stare into

1727
01:07:30,513 --> 01:07:33,070
the abyss so long without doing some of

1728
01:07:33,070 --> 01:07:34,741
the other side. Yeah. You're gonna fall in

1729
01:07:34,741 --> 01:07:35,696
if you look longer.

1730
01:07:37,288 --> 01:07:39,516
Right On. So to to bring this back

1731
01:07:39,516 --> 01:07:40,789
to the deck a little bit and to

1732
01:07:40,789 --> 01:07:41,608
talk about

1733
01:07:41,919 --> 01:07:44,956
the deck, in terms of the card types

1734
01:07:44,956 --> 01:07:46,474
of a taro deck. Like, we have the

1735
01:07:46,554 --> 01:07:48,391
Trump cards, the suit cards, the court cards.

1736
01:07:48,631 --> 01:07:50,563
Yep. If we're gonna talk about the Trump

1737
01:07:50,563 --> 01:07:52,239
cards. These are the ones in in this

1738
01:07:52,239 --> 01:07:54,713
deck that seem to be mainly military men

1739
01:07:54,713 --> 01:07:55,831
and armor with weapons,

1740
01:07:56,309 --> 01:08:00,019
some recognizable names, some not scenes ranging from

1741
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,760
unrecognizable ritual to that baby held over the

1742
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:04,000
fire.

1743
01:08:04,559 --> 01:08:07,380
And you mentioned that of the known names

1744
01:08:07,613 --> 01:08:09,600
and soldiers in the Trump's, most of them

1745
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,508
refer to players and Roman battles in North

1746
01:08:11,667 --> 01:08:12,064
Africa,

1747
01:08:12,541 --> 01:08:15,059
and that's interesting. What is that a clue

1748
01:08:15,259 --> 01:08:17,514
Is there more connective tissue to these figures

1749
01:08:17,652 --> 01:08:18,689
that you could tell us about?

1750
01:08:19,885 --> 01:08:22,459
Well, what it looks like is that the

1751
01:08:22,756 --> 01:08:24,692
additional image imagery on those cards

1752
01:08:25,323 --> 01:08:27,968
allows you to tie down a set of

1753
01:08:28,184 --> 01:08:29,160
Roman generals

1754
01:08:29,931 --> 01:08:32,316
who were embarked on 1 or other of

1755
01:08:32,316 --> 01:08:33,746
the so called P wars.

1756
01:08:34,238 --> 01:08:36,386
These were 3 great wars that Roam port

1757
01:08:36,386 --> 01:08:37,126
with Cart.

1758
01:08:38,377 --> 01:08:41,082
And so the theme again brings you back

1759
01:08:41,082 --> 01:08:42,855
to North Africa to Cart

1760
01:08:43,484 --> 01:08:45,880
to the reigning deity of Cart, Ba,

1761
01:08:46,997 --> 01:08:49,014
and to the most characteristic

1762
01:08:49,392 --> 01:08:51,489
form of sacrifice that was practiced

1763
01:08:51,947 --> 01:08:52,666
in Cart.

1764
01:08:53,158 --> 01:08:55,069
Which is the child emulation.

1765
01:08:57,139 --> 01:08:59,130
Right. So is this... Is it almost like

1766
01:08:59,686 --> 01:09:01,063
who's who of

1767
01:09:01,375 --> 01:09:03,614
people who had these beliefs is that the

1768
01:09:03,614 --> 01:09:05,694
assumption about the actual people on the cards?

1769
01:09:06,255 --> 01:09:07,774
Yeah. I don't think so. I think it's

1770
01:09:07,774 --> 01:09:10,470
just pointing towards North Africa just like the

1771
01:09:10,827 --> 01:09:13,766
Cards relating to the court cards relating to

1772
01:09:14,163 --> 01:09:14,663
Alexander's

1773
01:09:15,197 --> 01:09:15,593
conception.

1774
01:09:16,626 --> 01:09:19,565
In themselves, most of them are fairly insignificant

1775
01:09:19,565 --> 01:09:19,962
figures,

1776
01:09:20,614 --> 01:09:22,788
But when you put them together, they're

1777
01:09:23,404 --> 01:09:25,398
identifiable as the conception story,

1778
01:09:25,956 --> 01:09:26,594
which is

1779
01:09:27,073 --> 01:09:30,594
Alexander's conception by Ball On. Of North Africa,

1780
01:09:30,912 --> 01:09:31,947
Cart again.

1781
01:09:32,662 --> 01:09:32,901
Mh.

1782
01:09:33,537 --> 01:09:35,469
Okay. So it very strongly

1783
01:09:35,844 --> 01:09:36,344
reinforces

1784
01:09:36,814 --> 01:09:38,804
And and this is really... It's actually a

1785
01:09:38,804 --> 01:09:41,749
very curious feature of the deck that it

1786
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:44,136
should point in such a forceful way.

1787
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:46,564
To a entity or a being

1788
01:09:47,019 --> 01:09:47,519
who's

1789
01:09:48,294 --> 01:09:49,671
really is totally

1790
01:09:50,127 --> 01:09:51,423
identified with child sacrificed.

1791
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:52,038
Yeah.

1792
01:09:52,915 --> 01:09:54,132
I mean a very dark

1793
01:09:54,523 --> 01:09:56,828
aspect of the decks imagery. Mh.

1794
01:09:57,465 --> 01:09:59,850
I would say so... And when it comes

1795
01:09:59,850 --> 01:10:02,076
to the suit cards, what would you tell

1796
01:10:02,076 --> 01:10:03,427
us that's interesting about those?

1797
01:10:04,399 --> 01:10:06,872
The main thing about the suit cards is

1798
01:10:06,872 --> 01:10:08,968
that we have an opportunity,

1799
01:10:09,426 --> 01:10:11,282
I've talking to the audience out

1800
01:10:11,993 --> 01:10:14,542
to to to put your thinking caps on

1801
01:10:14,542 --> 01:10:16,694
and see if we can break the code.

1802
01:10:17,251 --> 01:10:19,583
Almost all the suit cards have alluded

1803
01:10:20,198 --> 01:10:20,996
decryption up to now.

1804
01:10:22,605 --> 01:10:24,539
It's also worth noting that the

1805
01:10:24,917 --> 01:10:27,228
deck in question is the first, I suppose

1806
01:10:27,228 --> 01:10:29,301
and for the next 500 years, the only

1807
01:10:29,301 --> 01:10:32,104
deck feature fully illustrated suit cards. Is that

1808
01:10:32,104 --> 01:10:32,262
right?

1809
01:10:33,218 --> 01:10:35,368
That's right. And, you know, it simply isn't

1810
01:10:35,368 --> 01:10:37,382
needed for the game of Tu.

1811
01:10:38,649 --> 01:10:40,804
You know, you just have normal suit cards

1812
01:10:40,804 --> 01:10:43,278
for any game of cards. No. They've used

1813
01:10:43,278 --> 01:10:44,735
the 40 suit cards

1814
01:10:45,113 --> 01:10:45,832
to convey.

1815
01:10:47,202 --> 01:10:48,795
But I don't know what they did. They...

1816
01:10:49,194 --> 01:10:51,503
They convey a very strange set of themes.

1817
01:10:52,220 --> 01:10:53,892
There's a couple of them that we have

1818
01:10:53,892 --> 01:10:55,087
managed to get a grip off.

1819
01:10:56,216 --> 01:10:58,046
And if I can say it, I would

1820
01:10:58,046 --> 01:11:00,695
like to say that they seem to

1821
01:11:01,627 --> 01:11:04,674
demonstrate a patent of either homo erotic

1822
01:11:05,385 --> 01:11:05,784
activity,

1823
01:11:06,984 --> 01:11:07,804
and possibly

1824
01:11:08,264 --> 01:11:08,764
ritual

1825
01:11:09,304 --> 01:11:09,804
homo

1826
01:11:10,664 --> 01:11:11,145
activity.

1827
01:11:12,997 --> 01:11:13,235
Okay?

1828
01:11:13,872 --> 01:11:14,826
So again,

1829
01:11:15,462 --> 01:11:18,484
the ritual activity, the deck em body's a

1830
01:11:18,484 --> 01:11:20,495
number of ritual techniques

1831
01:11:21,123 --> 01:11:23,938
and substances it uses salmon and

1832
01:11:24,794 --> 01:11:28,065
menstrual fluid as part of the rituals. Mh.

1833
01:11:28,557 --> 01:11:30,801
And this is fairly typical of certainly

1834
01:11:31,252 --> 01:11:33,654
Renaissance magic and, you know, it's

1835
01:11:34,105 --> 01:11:35,295
echoes through the ages.

1836
01:11:36,423 --> 01:11:39,535
So, yeah, some of the cards embody this

1837
01:11:39,535 --> 01:11:42,886
type of information. So it's almost as though

1838
01:11:42,886 --> 01:11:46,161
the 2 cards have been used to amplify

1839
01:11:46,161 --> 01:11:47,058
certain aspects

1840
01:11:47,511 --> 01:11:49,521
of the decks ritual practice.

1841
01:11:50,944 --> 01:11:53,176
But we haven't managed to decode most of

1842
01:11:53,176 --> 01:11:53,654
them yet.

1843
01:11:55,407 --> 01:11:55,907
And,

1844
01:11:56,363 --> 01:11:58,697
you know, you mentioned in the book that

1845
01:11:58,929 --> 01:12:00,547
1 of the images that kinda

1846
01:12:01,164 --> 01:12:03,399
comes up in these is con people. And

1847
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:05,337
I was wondering, are those

1848
01:12:05,874 --> 01:12:08,085
positions of the con people on the cards

1849
01:12:08,444 --> 01:12:10,836
consistent in any way with what you described

1850
01:12:10,836 --> 01:12:12,590
a little bit ago, that sort of channel.

1851
01:12:12,988 --> 01:12:14,583
You know, you put people in certain positions

1852
01:12:14,583 --> 01:12:16,736
and they can start embody characteristics of the

1853
01:12:16,736 --> 01:12:19,462
dead. Are those con images in any way

1854
01:12:19,462 --> 01:12:21,377
consistent with what you know about that practice?

1855
01:12:23,371 --> 01:12:24,110
It's a

1856
01:12:24,646 --> 01:12:27,095
this is a very complicated issue now. I

1857
01:12:27,534 --> 01:12:30,592
what we're dealing with is multiple levels of

1858
01:12:30,731 --> 01:12:30,970
encryption.

1859
01:12:31,770 --> 01:12:33,927
And let me give you an example. There's

1860
01:12:33,927 --> 01:12:36,746
a number of the Trump cards which

1861
01:12:37,539 --> 01:12:40,336
have roman numerals and a name, and the

1862
01:12:40,336 --> 01:12:41,395
name is meaningless.

1863
01:12:42,813 --> 01:12:44,751
Okay? But if you con coordinate

1864
01:12:45,144 --> 01:12:47,162
the Roman numerals and the name

1865
01:12:47,621 --> 01:12:50,656
and treat them all as a name as

1866
01:12:50,656 --> 01:12:51,055
characters.

1867
01:12:52,667 --> 01:12:54,603
You can then separate them out

1868
01:12:55,140 --> 01:12:56,039
like an ana.

1869
01:12:57,373 --> 01:12:59,367
And what you have is a number of

1870
01:12:59,367 --> 01:13:01,462
2 or 3 word elements.

1871
01:13:03,125 --> 01:13:05,289
And those elements can then be translated

1872
01:13:05,662 --> 01:13:09,071
into full words use system of encoding called

1873
01:13:09,071 --> 01:13:09,467
sig.

1874
01:13:10,519 --> 01:13:12,840
And just a few weeks ago, we found

1875
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:14,380
that the V manuscript,

1876
01:13:15,319 --> 01:13:18,139
They had suggested that the V manuscripts

1877
01:13:19,250 --> 01:13:21,472
eligibility up to now was because it had

1878
01:13:21,472 --> 01:13:23,219
been encoded using Ci.

1879
01:13:23,854 --> 01:13:26,260
Now Ci was a

1880
01:13:26,728 --> 01:13:28,181
standard form of

1881
01:13:28,555 --> 01:13:29,907
abbreviation developed in Rome,

1882
01:13:30,782 --> 01:13:32,531
so that you take the first and last

1883
01:13:32,531 --> 01:13:34,836
letter of the word or the first middle

1884
01:13:34,836 --> 01:13:38,122
and last letter, and con coordinate them. So

1885
01:13:38,122 --> 01:13:39,980
you have an effect the form of shorthand.

1886
01:13:41,878 --> 01:13:44,275
So if you take an expression,

1887
01:13:44,847 --> 01:13:46,991
you can shrink it, you know, you can

1888
01:13:46,991 --> 01:13:49,318
condense it into these 2, 3 elements,

1889
01:13:50,406 --> 01:13:52,153
and then you can jumble them together.

1890
01:13:52,965 --> 01:13:54,324
So that you hide the meaning.

1891
01:13:55,204 --> 01:13:57,925
Okay. This is 1 level of encryption. Mh.

1892
01:13:59,204 --> 01:14:02,180
Another level of encryption is you just alluded

1893
01:14:02,180 --> 01:14:04,340
to the fact that some of the figures

1894
01:14:04,340 --> 01:14:06,420
have very distorted shape.

1895
01:14:07,460 --> 01:14:09,720
It may be that they represent

1896
01:14:10,194 --> 01:14:12,289
and I'm not sure of this Hebrew

1897
01:14:12,747 --> 01:14:13,247
characters.

1898
01:14:14,501 --> 01:14:16,574
And a hebrew characters would give you a

1899
01:14:16,574 --> 01:14:17,930
name and a number.

1900
01:14:19,047 --> 01:14:19,547
Now

1901
01:14:20,179 --> 01:14:22,890
The reason why it could be Hebrew is

1902
01:14:22,890 --> 01:14:26,661
that almost universally in the fifteenth century, Hebrew

1903
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:29,431
was accepted as a sacred language.

1904
01:14:31,436 --> 01:14:31,936
So

1905
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:34,243
even in a deck like this, which

1906
01:14:34,697 --> 01:14:36,208
seems to be wholly pagan.

1907
01:14:37,099 --> 01:14:39,666
Is possible that they used Hebrew as another

1908
01:14:39,802 --> 01:14:42,506
level of encryption. And what we're dealing with

1909
01:14:42,506 --> 01:14:44,811
therefore is multiple levels of encryption.

1910
01:14:45,465 --> 01:14:47,645
And it's... This is the next task

1911
01:14:48,104 --> 01:14:50,185
so to speak in relation to the deck.

1912
01:14:50,664 --> 01:14:52,425
It needs crypt analysis.

1913
01:14:53,158 --> 01:14:54,055
And I wanna

1914
01:14:54,430 --> 01:14:56,814
mention that in the context of the fifteenth

1915
01:14:56,814 --> 01:14:57,314
century,

1916
01:14:58,006 --> 01:14:58,744
crypto lithography

1917
01:14:59,118 --> 01:15:01,582
was a very advanced art. Mh.

1918
01:15:02,314 --> 01:15:04,811
Okay? And especially when you take

1919
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:05,930
words

1920
01:15:06,309 --> 01:15:07,368
and you take

1921
01:15:08,146 --> 01:15:08,646
images

1922
01:15:09,198 --> 01:15:11,429
and you can cross them over each other.

1923
01:15:12,385 --> 01:15:15,570
So that some words appear as images as

1924
01:15:15,570 --> 01:15:17,561
we suggested with the con figures,

1925
01:15:18,531 --> 01:15:21,554
and some images and symbols are converted into

1926
01:15:21,554 --> 01:15:24,099
words, which we get with sig. Mh.

1927
01:15:25,627 --> 01:15:26,844
Okay. So

1928
01:15:27,380 --> 01:15:30,328
we're we're facing a very interesting task at

1929
01:15:30,328 --> 01:15:31,944
this point. Right, which is

1930
01:15:32,814 --> 01:15:34,994
the next stage is a crypto graphical

1931
01:15:35,614 --> 01:15:36,114
analysis

1932
01:15:36,414 --> 01:15:39,694
of the deck. And I've started making notes

1933
01:15:39,694 --> 01:15:40,255
towards that.

1934
01:15:41,068 --> 01:15:42,265
And I don't know how far are it.

1935
01:15:42,504 --> 01:15:45,476
The there's some other factors which people probably

1936
01:15:45,614 --> 01:15:46,492
should be aware of.

1937
01:15:47,448 --> 01:15:50,421
There's a form of encryption whereby

1938
01:15:50,894 --> 01:15:51,931
using an image,

1939
01:15:52,810 --> 01:15:54,187
you distort its

1940
01:15:55,123 --> 01:15:55,623
proportions

1941
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,475
to carry an additional weight of meaning.

1942
01:15:59,849 --> 01:16:02,486
So for instance, there's a figure holding a

1943
01:16:02,486 --> 01:16:04,484
child over a fire. Right? Mh.

1944
01:16:05,043 --> 01:16:07,921
But the child is huge in comparison to

1945
01:16:07,921 --> 01:16:09,931
the small camp fire. It's held over.

1946
01:16:10,569 --> 01:16:12,006
There's a disproportionate there.

1947
01:16:12,724 --> 01:16:12,883
Right?

1948
01:16:13,841 --> 01:16:15,856
So the question therefore is

1949
01:16:16,487 --> 01:16:20,563
is the designer alluding to child sacrifice, which

1950
01:16:20,619 --> 01:16:21,993
seems to be the obvious

1951
01:16:23,003 --> 01:16:23,503
explanation

1952
01:16:23,813 --> 01:16:26,454
or is he through the use of proportion

1953
01:16:26,668 --> 01:16:27,168
suggesting

1954
01:16:27,700 --> 01:16:29,921
that the actual the child is not a

1955
01:16:29,921 --> 01:16:30,953
real physical child?

1956
01:16:32,399 --> 01:16:34,974
In other words, is it a h humongous.

1957
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:38,726
And the whole science of the h humongous

1958
01:16:38,864 --> 01:16:41,100
was big stuff in the fifteenth century.

1959
01:16:41,909 --> 01:16:43,043
So typically,

1960
01:16:43,813 --> 01:16:46,136
they would have perceived for instance sperm

1961
01:16:46,509 --> 01:16:47,484
as Hu.

1962
01:16:48,650 --> 01:16:48,808
Okay.

1963
01:16:49,778 --> 01:16:53,046
Self sufficient to turn into a figure.

1964
01:16:53,764 --> 01:16:56,735
Okay? So there's a whole rim of magical

1965
01:16:56,793 --> 01:17:00,641
text dealing with the conversion of, or the

1966
01:17:00,641 --> 01:17:01,940
creation of Ham.

1967
01:17:03,757 --> 01:17:05,216
Okay. So can

1968
01:17:05,929 --> 01:17:07,924
you know, there's there's some levels of this

1969
01:17:07,924 --> 01:17:10,876
deck. We need to understand that it's a

1970
01:17:10,876 --> 01:17:11,774
multi layered

1971
01:17:12,311 --> 01:17:12,711
structure.

1972
01:17:13,524 --> 01:17:15,604
It's carrying a huge weight of meaning.

1973
01:17:16,324 --> 01:17:16,725
Mh.

1974
01:17:18,085 --> 01:17:20,817
Let me let me just mention this a

1975
01:17:20,817 --> 01:17:23,361
very famous professor actually pointed it out to

1976
01:17:23,361 --> 01:17:25,428
me. If you look on 1 of the

1977
01:17:25,428 --> 01:17:26,723
cards, it's called Bo.

1978
01:17:27,416 --> 01:17:29,801
As shows this like Crave fig knee,

1979
01:17:30,293 --> 01:17:31,882
holding a shield in front of him,

1980
01:17:32,597 --> 01:17:34,528
and the shield depicts the sun

1981
01:17:35,060 --> 01:17:35,776
coat of arms,

1982
01:17:36,411 --> 01:17:38,477
and there's light had golden band across it.

1983
01:17:39,769 --> 01:17:40,009
Now,

1984
01:17:41,207 --> 01:17:43,604
if you focus in and in and in

1985
01:17:43,604 --> 01:17:46,180
on this card until you got a massive

1986
01:17:46,733 --> 01:17:49,039
blow up of the corners of this gold

1987
01:17:49,039 --> 01:17:51,584
band. You'll see that it's actually demonic fella

1988
01:17:51,584 --> 01:17:53,573
ratio that's being depicted.

1989
01:17:54,130 --> 01:17:54,527
Yikes.

1990
01:17:56,606 --> 01:17:58,693
Okay. So again, now you're

1991
01:18:00,733 --> 01:18:02,105
there's a number of artists

1992
01:18:02,493 --> 01:18:06,024
Dick moves, the like the hem of clothing

1993
01:18:06,402 --> 01:18:07,938
seems to have some figures

1994
01:18:08,555 --> 01:18:10,729
in it. And it's only on extreme

1995
01:18:11,186 --> 01:18:11,426
magnification.

1996
01:18:11,998 --> 01:18:14,969
You start to recognize, oh, maybe these are

1997
01:18:15,585 --> 01:18:17,759
some alphabet. I'm not sure which alphabet.

1998
01:18:18,613 --> 01:18:19,113
So

1999
01:18:20,300 --> 01:18:24,137
The process of Renaissance artists and encoding

2000
01:18:24,591 --> 01:18:25,091
information

2001
01:18:25,465 --> 01:18:27,292
in this way. It's a bit like the

2002
01:18:27,292 --> 01:18:30,517
micro dot in modern, you know, espionage.

2003
01:18:30,976 --> 01:18:31,296
Mh.

2004
01:18:31,855 --> 01:18:33,693
It placed the micro dot on on on

2005
01:18:33,693 --> 01:18:35,211
a page, you know, as a full stop.

2006
01:18:36,104 --> 01:18:37,784
And unless you know it's there and where

2007
01:18:37,784 --> 01:18:39,224
to find it. You're never gonna see it.

2008
01:18:39,465 --> 01:18:42,444
Well, the renaissance artists doing the same thing

2009
01:18:42,904 --> 01:18:43,645
with mini.

2010
01:18:44,984 --> 01:18:45,304
Wow.

2011
01:18:46,037 --> 01:18:46,355
Wow.

2012
01:18:47,151 --> 01:18:49,798
So to sum up, we're dealing with multiple

2013
01:18:49,854 --> 01:18:53,274
levels of encryption, which take images and turn

2014
01:18:53,274 --> 01:18:55,912
them into letters and letters into images, and

2015
01:18:55,912 --> 01:18:59,270
sometimes they use proportion, sometimes use mini

2016
01:18:59,643 --> 01:19:00,778
punctuation, and sometimes

2017
01:19:01,310 --> 01:19:01,810
contextual

2018
01:19:02,738 --> 01:19:04,009
to per convey a message.

2019
01:19:06,492 --> 01:19:09,440
Obviously, it's very deep, and it's really tough

2020
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:11,511
to unpack. I mean, that just makes what

2021
01:19:11,511 --> 01:19:14,793
you've done, all that more fascinating. And I

2022
01:19:14,793 --> 01:19:17,344
guess to focus in on another card that

2023
01:19:17,344 --> 01:19:19,040
apparently is of

2024
01:19:19,417 --> 01:19:21,569
key interest would be the queen of cups

2025
01:19:21,569 --> 01:19:22,787
because it has the

2026
01:19:23,179 --> 01:19:25,817
references to human sacrifice. Like, tell us a

2027
01:19:25,817 --> 01:19:28,214
little bit about the details of that particular

2028
01:19:28,214 --> 01:19:28,453
card.

2029
01:19:29,812 --> 01:19:31,489
There's there's 2 cards.

2030
01:19:32,304 --> 01:19:33,522
1 is called Olympia,

2031
01:19:34,779 --> 01:19:37,252
and 1 is called Poly center. Okay.

2032
01:19:38,131 --> 01:19:40,446
And these 2 cards work in tandem with

2033
01:19:40,446 --> 01:19:40,765
each other.

2034
01:19:41,578 --> 01:19:42,317
They both

2035
01:19:43,012 --> 01:19:44,209
depict queens.

2036
01:19:45,006 --> 01:19:46,362
1 of them is sat in front of,

2037
01:19:46,441 --> 01:19:48,673
like a cup with a serpent coming out

2038
01:19:48,673 --> 01:19:48,912
of it.

2039
01:19:50,444 --> 01:19:52,279
And the other 1 is showing a more

2040
01:19:52,279 --> 01:19:52,918
mature figure.

2041
01:19:53,476 --> 01:19:53,636
Now,

2042
01:19:54,354 --> 01:19:55,413
Olympia was

2043
01:19:56,190 --> 01:19:57,627
Alexander, the great mother.

2044
01:19:59,077 --> 01:20:00,689
Okay. So she's responsible

2045
01:20:01,143 --> 01:20:02,279
in only the Romance

2046
01:20:02,731 --> 01:20:05,591
literature, it's her who has intercourse with the

2047
01:20:05,750 --> 01:20:08,469
God ba on in the form of a

2048
01:20:08,469 --> 01:20:08,969
dragon

2049
01:20:09,426 --> 01:20:11,178
to give birth to Alexander.

2050
01:20:12,453 --> 01:20:15,959
But in her maiden persona, she was known

2051
01:20:15,959 --> 01:20:16,836
as Paula center.

2052
01:20:17,567 --> 01:20:20,590
And as Poly center, she was notorious for

2053
01:20:20,590 --> 01:20:21,090
her

2054
01:20:21,783 --> 01:20:22,919
probably dion

2055
01:20:23,453 --> 01:20:23,851
worship.

2056
01:20:24,902 --> 01:20:27,772
You know, it's like wild ecstatic snake cult.

2057
01:20:29,605 --> 01:20:30,961
Okay. So that is there.

2058
01:20:31,598 --> 01:20:32,098
Now

2059
01:20:33,128 --> 01:20:33,628
Olympia

2060
01:20:34,084 --> 01:20:34,584
was

2061
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:36,177
the head of

2062
01:20:36,634 --> 01:20:39,046
or a zion of the house of Ep.

2063
01:20:40,552 --> 01:20:43,805
And her ancestors would be achilles.

2064
01:20:45,631 --> 01:20:46,131
And

2065
01:20:46,900 --> 01:20:47,400
achilles

2066
01:20:47,868 --> 01:20:50,674
died in the Trojan war. Right? And

2067
01:20:51,048 --> 01:20:53,060
they took a Trojan princess

2068
01:20:53,673 --> 01:20:57,251
paula center and sacrificed her over his grave.

2069
01:20:59,090 --> 01:21:02,204
So again, there's there's like this trans

2070
01:21:02,576 --> 01:21:06,239
generational connectivity being suggested. You have Olympia. You

2071
01:21:06,239 --> 01:21:08,943
have a maiden persona Poly center, and you

2072
01:21:08,943 --> 01:21:11,406
have Helena is another of the court cards.

2073
01:21:11,565 --> 01:21:13,712
Well, Helena is obviously Helen of troy.

2074
01:21:14,283 --> 01:21:16,676
And that pulls poly center in her wake.

2075
01:21:18,909 --> 01:21:21,085
To a act of human sacrifice

2076
01:21:21,462 --> 01:21:21,622
again.

2077
01:21:24,667 --> 01:21:28,037
Again, so here's another level of encryption whereby

2078
01:21:28,094 --> 01:21:28,594
using

2079
01:21:29,290 --> 01:21:30,427
association, historical

2080
01:21:30,885 --> 01:21:32,834
association of names or literary

2081
01:21:33,451 --> 01:21:34,168
association of names?

2082
01:21:34,886 --> 01:21:39,194
You can suggest this trans generational connectivity. Mh.

2083
01:21:39,512 --> 01:21:41,746
Now why is troy significant? You know, this

2084
01:21:41,746 --> 01:21:43,600
is came up when I talked to Gordon.

2085
01:21:44,079 --> 01:21:45,840
I didn't answer it properly. Let me give

2086
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,039
you a better answer.

2087
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,552
Greg. Sure. Troy is significant because in Str

2088
01:21:51,690 --> 01:21:52,190
geography,

2089
01:21:53,126 --> 01:21:55,837
he describes the area around Troy it's called

2090
01:21:55,837 --> 01:21:56,576
the T,

2091
01:21:57,351 --> 01:22:00,078
as the realm or the region of the

2092
01:22:00,078 --> 01:22:00,578
op,

2093
01:22:02,073 --> 01:22:03,851
the serpent born. Mh.

2094
01:22:04,549 --> 01:22:07,582
Okay? And the name of the tribe is

2095
01:22:07,582 --> 01:22:08,322
the Az.

2096
01:22:09,274 --> 01:22:09,774
And

2097
01:22:10,390 --> 01:22:13,101
for those who are up to date with

2098
01:22:13,101 --> 01:22:16,292
their knowledge of Isa esoteric, as a, of

2099
01:22:16,292 --> 01:22:18,227
course is the name of Andrew Chu

2100
01:22:18,779 --> 01:22:20,075
great text of

2101
01:22:20,451 --> 01:22:21,168
somatic craft.

2102
01:22:21,965 --> 01:22:24,753
Okay? His grim is called the Az. So

2103
01:22:24,753 --> 01:22:26,623
the connection to the Op

2104
01:22:27,321 --> 01:22:28,380
and to the T

2105
01:22:28,837 --> 01:22:31,233
also exists in the Easter esoteric tradition.

2106
01:22:31,951 --> 01:22:34,027
So I just just fill that out a.

2107
01:22:35,159 --> 01:22:35,479
Sure.

2108
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:38,520
Jeez. I mean, yeah, you gotta study so

2109
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:42,335
much to kinda put these pieces together and

2110
01:22:42,453 --> 01:22:44,043
you know, this does bring us right into

2111
01:22:44,043 --> 01:22:46,031
the court cards because the court cards to

2112
01:22:46,031 --> 01:22:47,700
me are some of the most fast and

2113
01:22:47,700 --> 01:22:50,563
write in this nexus that you're discussing because,

2114
01:22:50,721 --> 01:22:51,595
you know, as you said,

2115
01:22:52,170 --> 01:22:54,646
they are names on the cards that, like,

2116
01:22:54,806 --> 01:22:57,764
figures it almost exclusively relate to Alexander The

2117
01:22:57,764 --> 01:23:00,101
great, but not his real triumphs and historical

2118
01:23:00,161 --> 01:23:01,734
accomplishments. It all seems to be this

2119
01:23:02,335 --> 01:23:05,234
Alexander Romance literature. This idea that

2120
01:23:05,614 --> 01:23:07,795
he is from a lineage of a hybrid

2121
01:23:08,094 --> 01:23:10,789
blood line of a serpent dragon entity and

2122
01:23:10,988 --> 01:23:12,360
This strange idea

2123
01:23:12,970 --> 01:23:14,875
does come up in a lot of stories

2124
01:23:14,875 --> 01:23:16,540
of many royal blood lines. Right?

2125
01:23:17,572 --> 01:23:20,444
It doesn't indeed judge. Pervasive in the ancient

2126
01:23:20,444 --> 01:23:20,762
world,

2127
01:23:21,478 --> 01:23:23,725
and you you see it in modern or

2128
01:23:23,782 --> 01:23:27,039
medieval Europe, early medieval Europe with the marrow

2129
01:23:27,039 --> 01:23:27,278
engines,

2130
01:23:27,929 --> 01:23:29,145
you know, this this,

2131
01:23:29,998 --> 01:23:31,692
you know, strange kind of

2132
01:23:32,226 --> 01:23:33,125
sea dragon

2133
01:23:33,579 --> 01:23:34,398
as the

2134
01:23:34,853 --> 01:23:37,184
ancestor of the Merrill engine dynasty.

2135
01:23:37,734 --> 01:23:40,118
Of course, the merrill engines are closely tied

2136
01:23:40,118 --> 01:23:43,083
up with all the temp treasure mysteries.

2137
01:23:43,458 --> 01:23:45,048
And, you know, all that stuff.

2138
01:23:45,858 --> 01:23:47,761
Right. I'm not gonna get into that stuff.

2139
01:23:51,173 --> 01:23:53,411
Yeah. But, I mean, also you list... Several,

2140
01:23:53,570 --> 01:23:55,880
like, I I really wanna dig in deep

2141
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:58,189
in the future into all these different little

2142
01:23:58,189 --> 01:24:00,759
threads because to think that there could be

2143
01:24:01,387 --> 01:24:03,054
any truth to this kind of thing. In

2144
01:24:03,054 --> 01:24:05,618
any way, shape or form, obviously, it seems

2145
01:24:05,832 --> 01:24:06,332
completely

2146
01:24:07,023 --> 01:24:07,523
fantastical

2147
01:24:08,451 --> 01:24:09,744
today, but it's like

2148
01:24:10,214 --> 01:24:12,052
is there any way in which there could

2149
01:24:12,052 --> 01:24:13,490
be a core of truth to that idea?

2150
01:24:13,650 --> 01:24:14,869
Like you talked about

2151
01:24:15,488 --> 01:24:17,886
spiritual ratio. Is it possible that the elite

2152
01:24:17,886 --> 01:24:18,945
are off offspring

2153
01:24:19,259 --> 01:24:21,412
from a time when the gods mated it

2154
01:24:21,412 --> 01:24:24,283
with man in some way through some rituals

2155
01:24:24,283 --> 01:24:27,256
or is it just all, like, self con

2156
01:24:27,793 --> 01:24:28,613
pop in circumstance?

2157
01:24:30,515 --> 01:24:30,754
Well,

2158
01:24:31,470 --> 01:24:33,458
from an energy worker perspective,

2159
01:24:34,730 --> 01:24:38,252
the inter relation of these species,

2160
01:24:39,596 --> 01:24:40,096
certainly

2161
01:24:40,631 --> 01:24:41,131
occurs

2162
01:24:41,506 --> 01:24:45,187
in the healing context. I mean, people report

2163
01:24:46,612 --> 01:24:47,112
instances

2164
01:24:48,123 --> 01:24:49,180
of this crossover.

2165
01:24:50,908 --> 01:24:54,189
I documented Wong and it's available for anyone

2166
01:24:54,189 --> 01:24:55,389
who wants to read it. It was in

2167
01:24:55,389 --> 01:24:56,449
the Para psychology.

2168
01:24:57,469 --> 01:24:59,309
Sorry. Para anthropology Journal,

2169
01:25:00,029 --> 01:25:02,269
and I called it lord of the flies,

2170
01:25:02,510 --> 01:25:02,564
or

2171
01:25:03,322 --> 01:25:04,939
And it was a particular

2172
01:25:05,555 --> 01:25:07,309
case I I started to deal with,

2173
01:25:08,186 --> 01:25:10,100
and it got heavier and heavier, and I

2174
01:25:10,100 --> 01:25:11,456
then passed it off somebody.

2175
01:25:12,189 --> 01:25:13,170
Lot more capable

2176
01:25:13,710 --> 01:25:14,510
than myself.

2177
01:25:14,989 --> 01:25:19,470
But essentially, as we cleanse this person energetically,

2178
01:25:19,884 --> 01:25:22,506
they started to recover memories of having been

2179
01:25:22,506 --> 01:25:23,006
sacrificed

2180
01:25:23,459 --> 01:25:24,572
in a previous life,

2181
01:25:25,922 --> 01:25:26,422
and

2182
01:25:27,287 --> 01:25:29,984
As part of that sacrifice, they had been

2183
01:25:29,984 --> 01:25:33,418
pledged to a set of entities. Damn. Parasitic

2184
01:25:34,108 --> 01:25:34,662
entities. Right?

2185
01:25:35,474 --> 01:25:37,628
And it was those entities which in this

2186
01:25:37,628 --> 01:25:39,087
life were reestablish

2187
01:25:40,182 --> 01:25:40,981
their rights.

2188
01:25:44,188 --> 01:25:45,487
Okay? So

2189
01:25:46,024 --> 01:25:48,599
because those entities are not

2190
01:25:49,136 --> 01:25:50,971
constrained in the way we are with our

2191
01:25:50,971 --> 01:25:51,610
life cycle.

2192
01:25:52,024 --> 01:25:53,929
And are like forgetting at the end of

2193
01:25:53,929 --> 01:25:56,311
our life cycle. So like we start a

2194
01:25:56,311 --> 01:25:58,931
fresh each time hey. I'm here for the

2195
01:25:58,931 --> 01:25:59,488
first time,

2196
01:26:00,139 --> 01:26:03,574
And those entities say, well, no actually. You're

2197
01:26:03,574 --> 01:26:03,894
pledged.

2198
01:26:04,773 --> 01:26:05,273
So

2199
01:26:06,211 --> 01:26:08,797
let me put this in... As blunt away

2200
01:26:09,090 --> 01:26:09,963
as I can,

2201
01:26:10,994 --> 01:26:12,899
know you're not free, your lunch.

2202
01:26:14,723 --> 01:26:14,962
Okay.

2203
01:26:15,929 --> 01:26:19,055
For certain entities and certain class of healing

2204
01:26:19,430 --> 01:26:21,021
issues that we have to deal with?

2205
01:26:21,976 --> 01:26:24,761
There's the problem of an assumed ownership?

2206
01:26:25,654 --> 01:26:28,468
Which if the person doesn't start to recognize

2207
01:26:29,006 --> 01:26:29,746
the trans

2208
01:26:30,124 --> 01:26:30,624
generational

2209
01:26:31,162 --> 01:26:34,115
nature of their dilemma, they cannot break free

2210
01:26:34,115 --> 01:26:34,435
of it.

2211
01:26:35,327 --> 01:26:35,725
Wow.

2212
01:26:36,681 --> 01:26:38,833
Yeah. It's important that you you get hold

2213
01:26:38,833 --> 01:26:39,970
of your ethical

2214
01:26:41,622 --> 01:26:44,171
position in this lifetime. Mh. Okay?

2215
01:26:44,984 --> 01:26:47,878
And if you refuse to acknowledge the breadth

2216
01:26:48,814 --> 01:26:49,634
of your

2217
01:26:50,011 --> 01:26:50,511
responsibilities

2218
01:26:50,969 --> 01:26:52,667
and and and connectivity

2219
01:26:53,220 --> 01:26:56,100
in community and family and the recurrence of

2220
01:26:56,100 --> 01:26:56,920
these patents

2221
01:26:57,220 --> 01:26:59,619
again and again from life to life. You

2222
01:26:59,619 --> 01:27:01,720
can get un mesh in a very dark

2223
01:27:02,192 --> 01:27:04,968
bundle. To say the least? Yes. It's difficult

2224
01:27:04,968 --> 01:27:07,190
to un unravel unless you you start, you

2225
01:27:07,190 --> 01:27:09,967
know, say, okay. Let's accept first of all,

2226
01:27:10,378 --> 01:27:12,626
that these things exist. You need a broader

2227
01:27:12,682 --> 01:27:14,430
vision to free yourself from it.

2228
01:27:15,145 --> 01:27:18,005
Yeah. That's just another layer of that deception

2229
01:27:18,005 --> 01:27:20,189
to take us out of all this context

2230
01:27:20,325 --> 01:27:22,155
because we we have no frame of reference,

2231
01:27:22,314 --> 01:27:25,018
no way to orient ourselves if we don't

2232
01:27:25,018 --> 01:27:27,166
even know the situation we're in. And I

2233
01:27:27,166 --> 01:27:28,614
guess, for people listening,

2234
01:27:29,490 --> 01:27:31,345
what would you say would be

2235
01:27:31,881 --> 01:27:35,863
potential clues that people might have experienced in

2236
01:27:35,863 --> 01:27:36,602
their life

2237
01:27:37,073 --> 01:27:39,166
that might speak to

2238
01:27:39,780 --> 01:27:42,169
that pledging. Or or if they are pledged

2239
01:27:42,169 --> 01:27:44,001
or who they might be pledged to. Are

2240
01:27:44,001 --> 01:27:46,164
there things a person can look at to

2241
01:27:46,164 --> 01:27:47,835
examine their own life and try to get

2242
01:27:47,835 --> 01:27:49,983
a handle on this kind of stuff that

2243
01:27:49,983 --> 01:27:50,698
seems so foreign.

2244
01:27:51,414 --> 01:27:51,493
Yeah.

2245
01:27:53,177 --> 01:27:55,320
Normally, you know, will have surfaced in in

2246
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:56,670
a number of ways, you know?

2247
01:27:57,622 --> 01:27:59,130
You need to look at addictions.

2248
01:28:01,057 --> 01:28:03,155
You did look at stuff where you're driven

2249
01:28:03,774 --> 01:28:04,972
rather than driving,

2250
01:28:06,410 --> 01:28:10,345
obsession Yeah. It's often the characteristic of entity

2251
01:28:10,345 --> 01:28:13,704
attachment that, you know... There's different layers of

2252
01:28:13,704 --> 01:28:15,625
possession, as I said earlier, like, it starts

2253
01:28:15,625 --> 01:28:16,159
with, like

2254
01:28:16,995 --> 01:28:18,609
infestation. And that's when

2255
01:28:19,302 --> 01:28:21,609
you have a lot of accidents, things going

2256
01:28:21,609 --> 01:28:22,563
wrong in your life.

2257
01:28:23,613 --> 01:28:26,023
You know, loss of money, loss of inheritance

2258
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:27,195
as this kind of stuff.

2259
01:28:27,911 --> 01:28:30,698
And from there, it kinda of works up

2260
01:28:30,698 --> 01:28:31,198
to

2261
01:28:32,386 --> 01:28:33,923
well call obsession

2262
01:28:34,540 --> 01:28:35,359
where you

2263
01:28:36,454 --> 01:28:39,087
become literally obsessed with certain things, you may

2264
01:28:39,087 --> 01:28:39,885
become addicted,

2265
01:28:40,761 --> 01:28:42,766
and that then can work up to the

2266
01:28:42,766 --> 01:28:44,835
level of what we would call oppression.

2267
01:28:45,630 --> 01:28:47,538
And these people who work wake up with

2268
01:28:47,538 --> 01:28:49,448
scratches and bruises on their body,

2269
01:28:50,099 --> 01:28:52,406
you know, this, like, stuff flying at them.

2270
01:28:52,962 --> 01:28:55,667
We had cases where people trying to connect

2271
01:28:55,667 --> 01:28:56,622
them to a healer.

2272
01:28:57,751 --> 01:28:59,819
And like every time they call that Healer,

2273
01:28:59,899 --> 01:29:03,161
the phones engage, the He calls them, they

2274
01:29:03,161 --> 01:29:05,663
can never get through. So you get this

2275
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:07,945
interference to hold the person in place.

2276
01:29:08,502 --> 01:29:11,204
K? And then the fourth level is possession

2277
01:29:11,204 --> 01:29:13,112
where people actually get taken over.

2278
01:29:13,764 --> 01:29:16,797
By entities. So, you know, there's 4 signs

2279
01:29:16,797 --> 01:29:18,394
for layers in this.

2280
01:29:19,113 --> 01:29:19,613
And

2281
01:29:19,990 --> 01:29:22,725
a more casual level perhaps is

2282
01:29:23,517 --> 01:29:25,453
sexual pre prediction in dreams.

2283
01:29:27,345 --> 01:29:28,324
That's another

2284
01:29:28,941 --> 01:29:31,573
sign that, you know, if that becomes a

2285
01:29:31,573 --> 01:29:32,530
persistent pattern,

2286
01:29:33,261 --> 01:29:34,292
You got a problem.

2287
01:29:36,275 --> 01:29:36,672
Wow.

2288
01:29:37,227 --> 01:29:38,972
Wow. I mean, there there is a history

2289
01:29:38,972 --> 01:29:42,093
of people of calling addiction or indulge is

2290
01:29:42,093 --> 01:29:44,406
to call them, like, bad humorous or something

2291
01:29:44,406 --> 01:29:45,921
to that effect? Yeah.

2292
01:29:46,719 --> 01:29:49,430
I don't wanna suggest that everything is always

2293
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:49,885
caused

2294
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,029
by some entities. It's not the case. These

2295
01:29:53,029 --> 01:29:55,098
are rare cases, but they do happen.

2296
01:29:56,372 --> 01:29:58,697
I really don't wanna suggest like, we can

2297
01:29:58,697 --> 01:30:00,927
explain everything like this. Is just not like

2298
01:30:00,927 --> 01:30:02,863
that. Sure. No. The psychological

2299
01:30:03,239 --> 01:30:05,391
has its place, you know, personality,

2300
01:30:06,044 --> 01:30:07,882
You know, we all have phases in our

2301
01:30:07,882 --> 01:30:09,719
lives when we do a lot of stupid

2302
01:30:09,719 --> 01:30:09,959
stuff.

2303
01:30:11,078 --> 01:30:11,636
True. You know?

2304
01:30:12,676 --> 01:30:14,850
Guilty. So all of this stuff is going

2305
01:30:14,850 --> 01:30:17,570
on, but, occasionally, you get people who are,

2306
01:30:17,729 --> 01:30:19,170
like in desperate straits.

2307
01:30:19,890 --> 01:30:21,989
And 1 case I had in

2308
01:30:22,462 --> 01:30:25,164
It's disturbing, but I'll mention it. This was

2309
01:30:25,164 --> 01:30:27,469
a very fit active young woman and then

2310
01:30:27,469 --> 01:30:29,536
all of a sudden, you know, she started

2311
01:30:29,536 --> 01:30:30,886
getting attacked at night.

2312
01:30:31,858 --> 01:30:32,736
In her dreams.

2313
01:30:33,534 --> 01:30:34,034
And

2314
01:30:34,412 --> 01:30:36,886
was was raping her as bouncing her off

2315
01:30:36,886 --> 01:30:39,462
the walls. This was obviously happening on an

2316
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:39,920
level.

2317
01:30:40,968 --> 01:30:43,033
As she was taken to a psychiatrist to

2318
01:30:43,033 --> 01:30:45,121
a psychiatric clinic to a cardiologist

2319
01:30:45,653 --> 01:30:46,153
to

2320
01:30:46,527 --> 01:30:49,087
neuro psychiatrist to the sleep clinic.

2321
01:30:49,725 --> 01:30:51,181
I mean, they tried everything,

2322
01:30:51,958 --> 01:30:54,053
and it just went on and on. And

2323
01:30:54,510 --> 01:30:55,946
she came to me and I I just

2324
01:30:55,946 --> 01:30:58,434
realized this is way outside of Marty. You

2325
01:30:58,434 --> 01:31:01,234
know, like 20 years off, still going on.

2326
01:31:01,795 --> 01:31:03,234
Maybe 567

2327
01:31:03,234 --> 01:31:04,514
times a month at least.

2328
01:31:05,968 --> 01:31:07,106
So medical

2329
01:31:07,644 --> 01:31:09,798
profession as such had totally exhausted.

2330
01:31:10,676 --> 01:31:12,751
That they had found nothing wrong with her.

2331
01:31:13,724 --> 01:31:16,117
But thing is still going on. I sent

2332
01:31:16,117 --> 01:31:18,670
it to a, much more advanced healer.

2333
01:31:19,387 --> 01:31:21,078
And the first thing that hap and there's

2334
01:31:21,078 --> 01:31:23,072
this entity turned to the healer and said

2335
01:31:23,072 --> 01:31:25,305
you you get involved in this, I'm gonna

2336
01:31:25,305 --> 01:31:25,625
kill you.

2337
01:31:27,938 --> 01:31:30,011
So this is where, you know, it kind

2338
01:31:30,011 --> 01:31:30,511
of

2339
01:31:30,823 --> 01:31:32,968
You hit a wall then. Okay. So what

2340
01:31:32,968 --> 01:31:35,454
is it that this person needs to do

2341
01:31:35,590 --> 01:31:36,543
in themselves?

2342
01:31:38,068 --> 01:31:40,368
To begin the process of unraveling and this

2343
01:31:40,368 --> 01:31:42,114
is why I was saying earlier, you know?

2344
01:31:42,987 --> 01:31:44,836
In a sense, you have to evolve

2345
01:31:45,304 --> 01:31:47,402
you have to evolve morally and quickly

2346
01:31:47,781 --> 01:31:49,938
in your world to deal with these things.

2347
01:31:50,657 --> 01:31:51,136
Mh.

2348
01:31:52,429 --> 01:31:54,909
So I would suggest if if the darkness

2349
01:31:54,909 --> 01:31:57,069
has any role in life, it it's it

2350
01:31:57,069 --> 01:32:00,363
helps us to evolve quickly. Well, said, probably

2351
01:32:00,363 --> 01:32:02,756
left to ourselves. We... You know, we just

2352
01:32:02,756 --> 01:32:03,234
hang out.

2353
01:32:05,706 --> 01:32:08,178
That's good, you know? It's the classic ignorance

2354
01:32:08,178 --> 01:32:09,270
is bliss kind of

2355
01:32:10,025 --> 01:32:10,980
Yeah. Yeah.

2356
01:32:11,537 --> 01:32:13,684
Isn't it just you know. Mh. But when

2357
01:32:13,684 --> 01:32:15,991
we, like, confront the dark side in life,

2358
01:32:16,484 --> 01:32:18,096
We're forced to clarify

2359
01:32:18,550 --> 01:32:20,719
our own situation, our own posture

2360
01:32:21,252 --> 01:32:23,899
in relation to it, and that is spiritually

2361
01:32:24,591 --> 01:32:25,091
evolutionary.

2362
01:32:25,719 --> 01:32:27,713
For ourselves. So I don't offer that as

2363
01:32:27,713 --> 01:32:29,948
a justification. I just say, as a matter

2364
01:32:29,948 --> 01:32:31,703
of fact, it seems to work like that.

2365
01:32:32,101 --> 01:32:32,501
Mh.

2366
01:32:33,391 --> 01:32:35,615
Well, I am just so fascinated with these,

2367
01:32:35,854 --> 01:32:37,204
I guess we could call them, like, the

2368
01:32:37,204 --> 01:32:41,733
mechanisms of magic or these aspects to reality

2369
01:32:41,733 --> 01:32:42,233
structure

2370
01:32:42,939 --> 01:32:44,609
And I guess I would ask, in terms

2371
01:32:44,609 --> 01:32:45,109
of

2372
01:32:45,722 --> 01:32:47,336
being pledged to

2373
01:32:47,791 --> 01:32:48,744
dark entities,

2374
01:32:49,619 --> 01:32:51,704
is there a way in which you know,

2375
01:32:51,864 --> 01:32:54,505
over the years, the elite have maintained and

2376
01:32:54,505 --> 01:32:56,604
probably fleshed out these

2377
01:32:57,385 --> 01:33:00,364
rituals. Is there a way that they could,

2378
01:33:00,839 --> 01:33:01,339
possibly

2379
01:33:02,438 --> 01:33:05,255
in mass, do some type of ritual that

2380
01:33:05,714 --> 01:33:09,251
dedicate a large swath of people to dark

2381
01:33:09,310 --> 01:33:09,550
entities.

2382
01:33:10,361 --> 01:33:12,426
Yeah, I think you know, that that is

2383
01:33:12,426 --> 01:33:14,807
exactly a description of modern west,

2384
01:33:16,475 --> 01:33:18,698
society and culture and things like.

2385
01:33:20,543 --> 01:33:23,568
We're, you know, from 09:11 to you name

2386
01:33:23,568 --> 01:33:26,114
it. We're just hit with a wave of

2387
01:33:26,114 --> 01:33:26,614
negativity.

2388
01:33:28,601 --> 01:33:31,555
Wow. Wow. I mean, and it's everything. If

2389
01:33:31,555 --> 01:33:33,253
these entities feed on negativity,

2390
01:33:33,871 --> 01:33:35,707
my god, they must be having a feast.

2391
01:33:37,158 --> 01:33:39,385
Yeah. It's a real sm boy out there.

2392
01:33:40,021 --> 01:33:40,498
That's it.

2393
01:33:41,692 --> 01:33:41,930
Jeez.

2394
01:33:42,885 --> 01:33:45,284
So I mean, I... Just to to re

2395
01:33:45,284 --> 01:33:48,302
touch on the idea of blood lines having

2396
01:33:48,619 --> 01:33:51,422
some type of serpent dragon Rep.

2397
01:33:52,128 --> 01:33:54,276
Origin You you mentioned the Mayor engines. You

2398
01:33:54,276 --> 01:33:56,104
also talk about in the book, the first

2399
01:33:56,184 --> 01:33:59,047
King of Athens, the Yeah. Cr cops, they

2400
01:33:59,047 --> 01:34:01,448
were considered to be half serpent, Also a

2401
01:34:01,448 --> 01:34:03,676
lot of coat of arms and crest for

2402
01:34:03,676 --> 01:34:06,538
these families. You'll see dragons and serpents, and

2403
01:34:06,538 --> 01:34:07,310
it's always the

2404
01:34:08,069 --> 01:34:09,829
1 type of animal. You know? It's very

2405
01:34:09,829 --> 01:34:12,310
interesting that it always comes down to reptile

2406
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:15,164
and not beetles or birds or

2407
01:34:15,523 --> 01:34:17,457
mammals or... I mean, Rep

2408
01:34:18,231 --> 01:34:20,701
themes are just so pervasive and it is

2409
01:34:20,701 --> 01:34:22,947
really interesting that you have these cards that

2410
01:34:22,947 --> 01:34:25,261
are hundreds of years old, and these elite

2411
01:34:25,261 --> 01:34:26,856
methodologies are even older, and then we have

2412
01:34:26,935 --> 01:34:29,169
David Ike saying that the elite and these

2413
01:34:29,169 --> 01:34:31,482
royal blood lines are actually rep till in

2414
01:34:31,482 --> 01:34:33,972
modern times, it's like, through all of history,

2415
01:34:34,132 --> 01:34:36,051
this has been a theme, and we just

2416
01:34:36,051 --> 01:34:37,328
look the other way, I guess. So we...

2417
01:34:37,489 --> 01:34:38,847
It's just too much to deal with.

2418
01:34:39,567 --> 01:34:42,618
Yeah. I I guess it's Your question is

2419
01:34:42,618 --> 01:34:45,654
the nature of the interaction between ourselves and

2420
01:34:45,654 --> 01:34:48,451
these entities. Right? Right. Yeah. I do see

2421
01:34:48,451 --> 01:34:51,593
them as as to an extent lying behind

2422
01:34:52,444 --> 01:34:53,159
god forms.

2423
01:34:53,953 --> 01:34:54,350
Mh.

2424
01:34:54,907 --> 01:34:57,132
It's almost like the prime evil form of

2425
01:34:57,132 --> 01:34:58,188
deity is

2426
01:34:58,578 --> 01:34:59,216
the dragon.

2427
01:34:59,932 --> 01:35:00,251
Right.

2428
01:35:01,047 --> 01:35:03,756
Okay? So that is the way these entities

2429
01:35:03,756 --> 01:35:06,862
would present themselves to us on a psychic

2430
01:35:06,862 --> 01:35:07,101
level.

2431
01:35:07,672 --> 01:35:10,610
And they represent a raw source of power,

2432
01:35:11,802 --> 01:35:13,176
and that's their attraction

2433
01:35:13,946 --> 01:35:16,010
for people who are drawn to power,

2434
01:35:16,978 --> 01:35:19,525
these entities are their, you know, best friends.

2435
01:35:20,957 --> 01:35:22,231
They promise them everything.

2436
01:35:23,027 --> 01:35:24,481
And to have that power

2437
01:35:24,857 --> 01:35:25,733
in yourself,

2438
01:35:26,543 --> 01:35:29,884
or to have that entity generate your own

2439
01:35:29,884 --> 01:35:30,384
con

2440
01:35:30,837 --> 01:35:31,474
energy, you know,

2441
01:35:32,269 --> 01:35:32,587
activated,

2442
01:35:33,144 --> 01:35:35,847
is gonna make you extremely powerful. Mh.

2443
01:35:36,499 --> 01:35:37,797
But there's like a borderline

2444
01:35:38,175 --> 01:35:40,569
between being activated and being possessed.

2445
01:35:41,447 --> 01:35:43,760
And I I think more what you're getting

2446
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:46,157
at, for the elite is that they actually

2447
01:35:46,157 --> 01:35:47,426
allow possession. Yes.

2448
01:35:48,060 --> 01:35:49,432
A dark ritual

2449
01:35:49,885 --> 01:35:50,994
creates a...

2450
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:53,340
Energetic

2451
01:35:54,119 --> 01:35:54,619
space

2452
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:56,439
for possession to take place.

2453
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:59,579
K. So ritual generates

2454
01:35:59,880 --> 01:36:00,380
a

2455
01:36:01,252 --> 01:36:04,113
form of space, which is neither objective nor

2456
01:36:04,113 --> 01:36:04,510
subjective.

2457
01:36:05,463 --> 01:36:07,529
And again, this is clear in the eth

2458
01:36:07,529 --> 01:36:09,379
demographic record where

2459
01:36:10,086 --> 01:36:12,711
anthropologists of of attended rituals.

2460
01:36:13,823 --> 01:36:17,028
And there's been like normal rules of gravity

2461
01:36:17,163 --> 01:36:17,663
and

2462
01:36:17,974 --> 01:36:19,966
you know, the... Like, corpses is getting up

2463
01:36:19,966 --> 01:36:22,755
and walking, you know? They experience these things.

2464
01:36:22,993 --> 01:36:24,667
It's in the eth demographic record.

2465
01:36:25,319 --> 01:36:27,475
But it, like, falls a foul of our

2466
01:36:27,475 --> 01:36:30,269
sharp distinction between subjective and objective.

2467
01:36:30,907 --> 01:36:32,344
You know, if it's so weird, it must

2468
01:36:32,344 --> 01:36:33,003
be psychological.

2469
01:36:33,382 --> 01:36:35,310
Right? Yes. But but actually,

2470
01:36:36,108 --> 01:36:38,499
ritual space is a different kind of space.

2471
01:36:39,455 --> 01:36:41,448
It's like ex excluded from the bodies of

2472
01:36:41,448 --> 01:36:42,165
the ritual,

2473
01:36:42,737 --> 01:36:45,836
and we see this again in constellation therapy

2474
01:36:45,836 --> 01:36:47,448
where a group of people

2475
01:36:48,537 --> 01:36:49,990
representing a family

2476
01:36:50,603 --> 01:36:50,841
constellation,

2477
01:36:51,412 --> 01:36:53,242
Even if as say the members along dead

2478
01:36:53,242 --> 01:36:54,276
and gone doesn't matter,

2479
01:36:54,832 --> 01:36:57,298
brings into being an energy feel which you

2480
01:36:57,298 --> 01:36:59,446
can experience and feel over there.

2481
01:37:00,260 --> 01:37:01,460
And within that field,

2482
01:37:02,100 --> 01:37:05,239
the boundaries of time and space kinda get

2483
01:37:05,539 --> 01:37:06,340
very fuzzy.

2484
01:37:07,631 --> 01:37:09,778
So that the past can live again.

2485
01:37:12,004 --> 01:37:13,752
So it is a feature of ritual to

2486
01:37:13,752 --> 01:37:16,161
create these these kind of am ambivalent

2487
01:37:16,789 --> 01:37:19,746
crossover spaces. And that that... That's what makes

2488
01:37:19,746 --> 01:37:22,702
them so efficacious. Mh. For esoteric.

2489
01:37:23,661 --> 01:37:24,060
Mh.

2490
01:37:25,033 --> 01:37:27,738
So in those ritual spaces, you can make

2491
01:37:27,738 --> 01:37:31,315
the connections to whichever entities your intention is

2492
01:37:31,315 --> 01:37:32,747
the navigator so to speak.

2493
01:37:33,637 --> 01:37:36,501
Gotcha. So that's really important to note because,

2494
01:37:36,660 --> 01:37:38,569
you know, I've been interested in getting into

2495
01:37:38,569 --> 01:37:41,447
magic, but, you know, as Gordon says, be

2496
01:37:41,447 --> 01:37:43,038
careful because it can ruin your life and

2497
01:37:43,118 --> 01:37:44,630
I'm like, well, my life's going pretty good

2498
01:37:44,630 --> 01:37:46,220
right now. It's actually... Like I feel like

2499
01:37:46,300 --> 01:37:48,130
I got a lottery ticket with with life

2500
01:37:48,130 --> 01:37:50,133
right now. So I'm like, I don't know

2501
01:37:50,133 --> 01:37:51,564
how much of this I wanna get into.

2502
01:37:51,723 --> 01:37:52,995
But, you know, if you're... I guess, if

2503
01:37:52,995 --> 01:37:53,654
you're morally

2504
01:37:54,109 --> 01:37:55,881
aligned the positive in your

2505
01:37:56,573 --> 01:37:59,472
motivations, you're going to attract the more positive

2506
01:37:59,767 --> 01:38:00,880
entities rather than the negative.

2507
01:38:01,833 --> 01:38:04,081
Well, just to anything, which is meaningful.

2508
01:38:04,868 --> 01:38:07,022
In a community sense like healing work,

2509
01:38:08,059 --> 01:38:11,328
and you naturally align yourself with all those

2510
01:38:11,328 --> 01:38:12,546
higher order beings

2511
01:38:13,163 --> 01:38:14,061
who are

2512
01:38:14,614 --> 01:38:15,114
purposefully

2513
01:38:15,731 --> 01:38:17,008
supporting that type of work.

2514
01:38:17,966 --> 01:38:19,801
K. You don't even need a ritual.

2515
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:22,036
Fair enough. They're there for you.

2516
01:38:22,689 --> 01:38:25,007
You know, because high order beings are by

2517
01:38:25,007 --> 01:38:26,786
their nature, purposeful,

2518
01:38:27,245 --> 01:38:27,745
ethical

2519
01:38:28,524 --> 01:38:31,560
entities. It only requires that you align yourself

2520
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:31,960
with that.

2521
01:38:33,332 --> 01:38:33,810
Mh.

2522
01:38:35,087 --> 01:38:38,277
Okay. If you need to do light rituals

2523
01:38:38,277 --> 01:38:40,510
fine. I mean, it's good, you know, you'll

2524
01:38:40,510 --> 01:38:41,707
have that connectivity.

2525
01:38:42,599 --> 01:38:44,748
I say I saw those entities on Tom

2526
01:38:44,988 --> 01:38:47,456
Canyon stage, you know, his singing was enough

2527
01:38:47,456 --> 01:38:48,912
to bring them

2528
01:38:49,287 --> 01:38:52,252
into his presence. Mh. So I I don't

2529
01:38:52,252 --> 01:38:53,290
doubt that they exist.

2530
01:38:53,929 --> 01:38:56,643
It's it's not necessary for me to do

2531
01:38:56,643 --> 01:38:58,000
rituals to call them.

2532
01:38:58,798 --> 01:38:59,596
I mean fair enough.

2533
01:39:00,569 --> 01:39:02,649
I just concentrate on the Heal work On

2534
01:39:02,649 --> 01:39:03,050
there there.

2535
01:39:04,649 --> 01:39:06,170
Yeah. Because that's the nature.

2536
01:39:06,810 --> 01:39:08,250
And that would be a question for you

2537
01:39:08,250 --> 01:39:10,921
too is, like, for people who have never

2538
01:39:10,979 --> 01:39:12,654
experienced this kind of stuff, and maybe I've

2539
01:39:12,654 --> 01:39:14,090
been listening to this show for a while.

2540
01:39:14,328 --> 01:39:16,641
We talked to these magical guests and they

2541
01:39:16,641 --> 01:39:18,817
talk about quite a few things, and maybe

2542
01:39:19,129 --> 01:39:21,524
to some listeners, it all seems abstract because

2543
01:39:21,524 --> 01:39:23,359
they don't have a lot of personal experience

2544
01:39:23,359 --> 01:39:24,796
or have I've never seen an entity or

2545
01:39:24,796 --> 01:39:27,371
anything like that. What would you suggest

2546
01:39:27,684 --> 01:39:28,982
being an energy worker

2547
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:32,256
as the first steps to actually

2548
01:39:33,272 --> 01:39:35,347
sensing that there is something to all this

2549
01:39:35,347 --> 01:39:36,305
in a personal way.

2550
01:39:37,118 --> 01:39:38,414
Yeah. I mean, you can

2551
01:39:38,789 --> 01:39:41,812
go along and and and witness a constellation

2552
01:39:41,812 --> 01:39:43,323
therapy for instance.

2553
01:39:44,135 --> 01:39:46,125
That will give you all the information you

2554
01:39:46,125 --> 01:39:48,594
need to know about the creation of energy

2555
01:39:48,594 --> 01:39:51,462
fields and what happens within them. Mh. You

2556
01:39:51,462 --> 01:39:52,917
can go and get the

2557
01:39:53,307 --> 01:39:55,296
standard rei key initiation, you know?

2558
01:39:56,171 --> 01:39:59,374
Rei is a beautiful healing energy. It's immediately

2559
01:39:59,430 --> 01:39:59,908
useful.

2560
01:40:00,544 --> 01:40:02,373
You can heal anyone yourself.

2561
01:40:03,262 --> 01:40:05,331
Cats dogs, the neighbors, whatever.

2562
01:40:05,808 --> 01:40:08,274
It's a no brainer, but it's a real

2563
01:40:08,274 --> 01:40:09,786
powerful healing current.

2564
01:40:10,519 --> 01:40:12,436
You know, with what a comments I made

2565
01:40:12,436 --> 01:40:15,493
earlier about agency, it's a natural connection to

2566
01:40:15,712 --> 01:40:19,239
higher order of being. Mh. So those 2

2567
01:40:19,239 --> 01:40:20,777
easy peasy steps

2568
01:40:21,154 --> 01:40:22,590
will take your a long way down the

2569
01:40:22,590 --> 01:40:24,584
road, But first, you have to have the

2570
01:40:24,584 --> 01:40:27,455
clear intention to find meaning in your life.

2571
01:40:28,345 --> 01:40:30,653
Mh. Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot

2572
01:40:30,653 --> 01:40:32,084
of sense. You gotta seek it out. A

2573
01:40:32,084 --> 01:40:33,755
lot of people can sit here with their

2574
01:40:33,755 --> 01:40:35,685
arms crossed and say, well, I don't feel

2575
01:40:35,685 --> 01:40:37,204
anything. I don't see anything. It's like, we'll,

2576
01:40:37,284 --> 01:40:39,604
have you tried. Have you really sought out

2577
01:40:39,604 --> 01:40:42,085
these Yeah. Experts and teachers that might be

2578
01:40:42,085 --> 01:40:44,014
able to kinda pry that door open for

2579
01:40:44,014 --> 01:40:45,689
you. If you haven't, you really don't have

2580
01:40:45,689 --> 01:40:46,726
much of a leg to stand on.

2581
01:40:47,524 --> 01:40:49,757
Not just that the teachers can't help you

2582
01:40:49,757 --> 01:40:51,990
unless you have a positive intent. Mh.

2583
01:40:52,802 --> 01:40:53,938
To create meaning

2584
01:40:55,108 --> 01:40:57,493
in life in your life, in the life

2585
01:40:57,493 --> 01:40:59,958
of the people around you. That's the driver.

2586
01:41:01,087 --> 01:41:02,597
It's an ethical driver.

2587
01:41:03,551 --> 01:41:06,572
Fair enough. And so 1 other aspect that

2588
01:41:06,572 --> 01:41:07,764
comes up in the book a lot that

2589
01:41:07,764 --> 01:41:09,593
is something that I never earlier here talked

2590
01:41:09,593 --> 01:41:12,956
about is the practice of self fashion. And

2591
01:41:13,036 --> 01:41:14,551
I thought that was kind of interesting, Like,

2592
01:41:14,711 --> 01:41:17,502
kind of post to invoke certain things perhaps?

2593
01:41:17,742 --> 01:41:19,757
Like, how do we see that aspect

2594
01:41:20,943 --> 01:41:23,086
used among the elite or in these cards.

2595
01:41:25,546 --> 01:41:27,927
That's a difficult question to answer.

2596
01:41:29,215 --> 01:41:31,155
I think the idea of the self fashion

2597
01:41:31,295 --> 01:41:34,095
is that it's the way in which people

2598
01:41:34,095 --> 01:41:37,375
adapt themselves to the society that they find

2599
01:41:37,375 --> 01:41:37,854
themselves in.

2600
01:41:38,828 --> 01:41:41,613
And that's both a survival mechanism for sure,

2601
01:41:42,011 --> 01:41:44,261
but it can also become a very limiting

2602
01:41:45,274 --> 01:41:47,581
posture to adopt unless you're careful.

2603
01:41:48,470 --> 01:41:48,970
So

2604
01:41:49,425 --> 01:41:50,402
I think with

2605
01:41:50,856 --> 01:41:53,400
on self fashion, which is, like the context

2606
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:54,298
for that concept,

2607
01:41:54,990 --> 01:41:55,809
it's the

2608
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:58,859
decision to adopt a certain style

2609
01:41:59,239 --> 01:42:00,140
and posture

2610
01:42:01,399 --> 01:42:01,960
in life.

2611
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:03,000
Okay.

2612
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:04,140
And

2613
01:42:04,854 --> 01:42:07,002
the posture and style that we see amongst

2614
01:42:07,002 --> 01:42:07,980
those elites

2615
01:42:08,594 --> 01:42:10,982
was a very self serving 1. We have

2616
01:42:10,982 --> 01:42:13,949
to say that. The Renaissance courts were

2617
01:42:14,578 --> 01:42:15,057
difficult,

2618
01:42:15,536 --> 01:42:16,674
highly competitive

2619
01:42:17,131 --> 01:42:17,609
places.

2620
01:42:18,805 --> 01:42:19,444
For instance,

2621
01:42:20,082 --> 01:42:21,858
Nicola, the third day est

2622
01:42:22,395 --> 01:42:23,851
had children from

2623
01:42:24,564 --> 01:42:25,443
12:13

2624
01:42:25,443 --> 01:42:26,162
different women.

2625
01:42:26,881 --> 01:42:29,517
And so every 1 of them thought of

2626
01:42:29,517 --> 01:42:32,008
themselves as a rightful heir. Mh.

2627
01:42:32,725 --> 01:42:35,597
So you can imagine the competition and the

2628
01:42:35,597 --> 01:42:37,431
violence that arose from that.

2629
01:42:38,548 --> 01:42:41,362
So the self fashion in the Renaissance world

2630
01:42:41,672 --> 01:42:44,929
was very much 1 geared towards survival in

2631
01:42:44,929 --> 01:42:46,541
a very unruly

2632
01:42:47,232 --> 01:42:48,844
competitive, difficult, dangerous

2633
01:42:49,377 --> 01:42:50,408
court environment.

2634
01:42:51,778 --> 01:42:54,408
K? It is the posture of somebody who's

2635
01:42:54,408 --> 01:42:56,105
saying I'm kind of invincible.

2636
01:42:57,759 --> 01:42:59,672
And I I think, you know, that is

2637
01:42:59,672 --> 01:43:02,814
the page cards of the solar basket

2638
01:43:03,269 --> 01:43:04,485
deck beautifully

2639
01:43:05,496 --> 01:43:07,427
suggests the style and po

2640
01:43:07,978 --> 01:43:10,128
of this, like, renaissance self fashion.

2641
01:43:10,606 --> 01:43:11,085
Mh.

2642
01:43:11,881 --> 01:43:14,350
Well, that does big another kind of out

2643
01:43:14,350 --> 01:43:17,076
there speculative question, which, you know, I tend

2644
01:43:17,076 --> 01:43:19,229
to ask. And I guess it would be...

2645
01:43:19,468 --> 01:43:21,620
Like, because you mentioned these elite having kids

2646
01:43:21,620 --> 01:43:23,077
with so many different women

2647
01:43:23,546 --> 01:43:24,443
Is it possible

2648
01:43:24,895 --> 01:43:26,718
if we also add in the context that

2649
01:43:26,718 --> 01:43:29,359
they've made some dark pact with the demi

2650
01:43:29,414 --> 01:43:31,914
and the Arch icons to be the management

2651
01:43:31,974 --> 01:43:34,135
class of the earthly plane and kind of

2652
01:43:34,135 --> 01:43:36,295
the servants of these dark forces.

2653
01:43:36,934 --> 01:43:39,675
Is it possible that we see situations where

2654
01:43:40,707 --> 01:43:43,995
people have maybe fallen off that Elite family

2655
01:43:44,052 --> 01:43:46,203
tree as the thing spreads out and gets

2656
01:43:46,203 --> 01:43:48,752
more complex and hard to hold together, especially

2657
01:43:48,752 --> 01:43:50,760
with them having sex with so many different

2658
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:52,354
women and having off offspring all over the

2659
01:43:52,354 --> 01:43:54,847
place, is it possible that some residue

2660
01:43:55,384 --> 01:43:57,456
from this pact, you know, we talked about

2661
01:43:57,456 --> 01:43:59,779
the idea being pledged to certain entities. Is

2662
01:43:59,779 --> 01:44:01,927
it possible that someone finds themselves 4 or

2663
01:44:01,927 --> 01:44:04,154
5 generations removed. They don't even know they're

2664
01:44:04,154 --> 01:44:06,640
attached to any royal blood line or anything,

2665
01:44:06,959 --> 01:44:09,033
deep down in that family tree. And yet

2666
01:44:09,033 --> 01:44:10,172
they find themselves

2667
01:44:10,630 --> 01:44:12,305
pledged in some type of contractor,

2668
01:44:12,877 --> 01:44:14,783
they find that kind of residue attached to

2669
01:44:14,783 --> 01:44:15,657
them themselves.

2670
01:44:17,246 --> 01:44:17,746
Absolutely.

2671
01:44:19,072 --> 01:44:19,390
Absolutely.

2672
01:44:20,025 --> 01:44:21,931
Because if you like step through the mirror,

2673
01:44:22,425 --> 01:44:24,585
You know, instead of looking at this from

2674
01:44:24,585 --> 01:44:26,505
the point of view of history.

2675
01:44:26,984 --> 01:44:29,545
You step through the mirror into the reverse

2676
01:44:29,545 --> 01:44:29,784
world.

2677
01:44:30,838 --> 01:44:33,778
Where those entities have their being their presence.

2678
01:44:35,128 --> 01:44:35,946
They view

2679
01:44:36,559 --> 01:44:38,386
time in a different way. Yeah.

2680
01:44:39,513 --> 01:44:41,980
You know, they're not really concerned about the

2681
01:44:41,980 --> 01:44:44,527
ins and outs of of our deaths and

2682
01:44:44,527 --> 01:44:44,845
rebirth.

2683
01:44:45,959 --> 01:44:47,255
For them there's a continuity

2684
01:44:47,868 --> 01:44:48,608
this concept

2685
01:44:48,998 --> 01:44:51,708
probably of soul whatever that means,

2686
01:44:52,266 --> 01:44:54,578
has more meaning for them than it does

2687
01:44:54,578 --> 01:44:56,490
for us. Yeah. Absolutely.

2688
01:44:57,061 --> 01:44:58,355
Okay? So

2689
01:44:58,886 --> 01:44:59,386
they

2690
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:00,815
exist as

2691
01:45:01,743 --> 01:45:02,323
potential personalities

2692
01:45:03,489 --> 01:45:04,228
in every

2693
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:04,839
generation.

2694
01:45:06,287 --> 01:45:07,005
Behind the mirror.

2695
01:45:08,599 --> 01:45:11,412
Okay. And certain people in their lives feel

2696
01:45:11,470 --> 01:45:13,782
imp to make a connection with them.

2697
01:45:14,914 --> 01:45:16,911
Even though they can't explain that drive.

2698
01:45:17,631 --> 01:45:18,370
They feel

2699
01:45:18,749 --> 01:45:21,386
imp to make a connection with for instance

2700
01:45:21,386 --> 01:45:21,705
power.

2701
01:45:22,838 --> 01:45:24,193
Or with some dark force.

2702
01:45:25,228 --> 01:45:27,322
Damn. There's like a magnet,

2703
01:45:28,495 --> 01:45:29,314
a drawing

2704
01:45:30,739 --> 01:45:33,284
energy of these beings, these entities, which is

2705
01:45:33,284 --> 01:45:33,523
like,

2706
01:45:34,238 --> 01:45:37,180
wholly strange and familiar at the same time.

2707
01:45:37,975 --> 01:45:39,247
Propelling but attractive.

2708
01:45:40,137 --> 01:45:40,536
Mh.

2709
01:45:41,174 --> 01:45:43,803
It's like any of the dracula movies you've

2710
01:45:43,803 --> 01:45:44,042
watched.

2711
01:45:45,078 --> 01:45:46,751
You know is like the thing in the

2712
01:45:46,751 --> 01:45:48,663
micro chasm is this right there.

2713
01:45:49,794 --> 01:45:52,262
So I believe it functions in that way.

2714
01:45:52,501 --> 01:45:53,797
It doesn't require

2715
01:45:54,810 --> 01:45:57,358
everyone in a generation, but it will choose

2716
01:45:57,358 --> 01:45:57,756
people.

2717
01:45:58,248 --> 01:45:59,679
And seek to attract them.

2718
01:46:01,110 --> 01:46:03,892
Know, into its grip, so to speak, but

2719
01:46:03,892 --> 01:46:05,506
at the same time promising.

2720
01:46:06,595 --> 01:46:07,095
So

2721
01:46:07,884 --> 01:46:11,632
These entities live as potential as part of

2722
01:46:11,632 --> 01:46:12,589
the power structure.

2723
01:46:13,706 --> 01:46:15,619
At at any time they can call on

2724
01:46:15,619 --> 01:46:17,270
any number of people who are

2725
01:46:17,628 --> 01:46:18,128
so

2726
01:46:18,664 --> 01:46:21,293
attracted to wealth and power that they'll do

2727
01:46:21,293 --> 01:46:24,242
anything for that. There's never any shortage of

2728
01:46:24,242 --> 01:46:24,742
candidates

2729
01:46:26,011 --> 01:46:28,188
And we've all been kind of conditioned to

2730
01:46:28,406 --> 01:46:30,401
seek out wealth and power to some degree.

2731
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:32,237
I mean, that's kind of capitalism in a

2732
01:46:32,237 --> 01:46:32,396
nutshell.

2733
01:46:33,209 --> 01:46:34,488
It is exactly.

2734
01:46:35,127 --> 01:46:35,526
Convenient.

2735
01:46:36,165 --> 01:46:38,503
It's very convenient. Neo liberal

2736
01:46:38,882 --> 01:46:42,011
to the core. Wow. Well, Man, I I

2737
01:46:42,011 --> 01:46:43,289
just love this. I feel like I could

2738
01:46:43,289 --> 01:46:44,487
do it all day, but I gotta let

2739
01:46:44,487 --> 01:46:47,600
you go sometime. And I just really enjoyed

2740
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:49,890
the book and the conversation. It's broken down

2741
01:46:50,010 --> 01:46:52,487
quite well, but it still requires so much

2742
01:46:52,487 --> 01:46:54,324
historical context. And a lot of the players

2743
01:46:54,324 --> 01:46:56,242
were pretty new to me. So it is

2744
01:46:56,242 --> 01:46:58,412
just a great book that unlocks so many

2745
01:46:58,412 --> 01:47:00,481
new threads and peek behind the curtain during

2746
01:47:00,481 --> 01:47:02,630
that era of the Italian renaissance, and I

2747
01:47:02,630 --> 01:47:04,779
think there's just so much to see behind

2748
01:47:04,779 --> 01:47:05,597
it. So

2749
01:47:05,989 --> 01:47:09,101
great work. And, you know, before, I let

2750
01:47:09,101 --> 01:47:10,139
you go ahead I did wanna also ask

2751
01:47:10,139 --> 01:47:12,214
you because you are an energy worker, and

2752
01:47:12,214 --> 01:47:15,178
that's the expertise you have. Did that come

2753
01:47:15,178 --> 01:47:16,690
into play at all when you were studying

2754
01:47:16,690 --> 01:47:17,963
the deck when you put your hands on

2755
01:47:17,963 --> 01:47:19,792
this thing. We're talking about the energy of

2756
01:47:19,792 --> 01:47:22,259
it? I mean, did you experience that firsthand?

2757
01:47:23,309 --> 01:47:25,862
Yeah. And a number of times, I I

2758
01:47:25,862 --> 01:47:28,573
had a huge energy coming through, Greg. I

2759
01:47:28,573 --> 01:47:30,488
mean, I was, like, paralyzed for, like, 4

2760
01:47:30,488 --> 01:47:32,402
days. It was so intense.

2761
01:47:33,534 --> 01:47:35,614
And none of the energy workers around me

2762
01:47:35,614 --> 01:47:37,775
could help could move it, you know, 1

2763
01:47:37,775 --> 01:47:39,695
of them tried, you know, and and they

2764
01:47:39,695 --> 01:47:41,375
almost fainted They had to go out of

2765
01:47:41,375 --> 01:47:43,569
the room was that intense. So

2766
01:47:43,947 --> 01:47:46,183
I wasn't aware that something was driving this,

2767
01:47:46,502 --> 01:47:48,977
and the way the clues came to help

2768
01:47:48,977 --> 01:47:50,095
me break this code.

2769
01:47:50,654 --> 01:47:52,410
Sometimes really strange, you know.

2770
01:47:53,063 --> 01:47:55,368
Right. I mean, I... I'm not a great

2771
01:47:55,368 --> 01:47:58,470
classic scholar or something for god's sakes. I

2772
01:47:58,470 --> 01:48:01,492
study philosophy. Okay. University, but I didn't study

2773
01:48:01,492 --> 01:48:02,287
ancient philosophy.

2774
01:48:03,176 --> 01:48:05,238
Man. We could've fooled me. Yeah.

2775
01:48:06,269 --> 01:48:08,173
Sometimes I I just felt like I was

2776
01:48:08,173 --> 01:48:09,521
being led by the nose, you know?

2777
01:48:10,490 --> 01:48:12,402
Sure. Stick your face here, look at this,

2778
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:13,595
Read that, read this,

2779
01:48:14,233 --> 01:48:16,462
put 2 and 2 together. Okay. Let's move

2780
01:48:16,462 --> 01:48:17,917
on. This, you know, As

2781
01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:20,698
and and this was the results and don't

2782
01:48:20,698 --> 01:48:22,712
ask me why this is manifested

2783
01:48:23,487 --> 01:48:24,443
at this time.

2784
01:48:25,254 --> 01:48:25,970
I don't know.

2785
01:48:27,246 --> 01:48:29,555
Yeah. Like you mentioned before we really started

2786
01:48:29,555 --> 01:48:31,387
recording that the story seems to want to

2787
01:48:31,387 --> 01:48:34,038
be told at this particular moment. Absolutely.

2788
01:48:34,669 --> 01:48:36,923
It's on it's it's a big energy

2789
01:48:37,380 --> 01:48:37,938
behind this.

2790
01:48:38,815 --> 01:48:39,315
Fascinating.

2791
01:48:39,772 --> 01:48:41,606
So also as we're wrapping vince up, can

2792
01:48:41,606 --> 01:48:44,168
you remind... Remind the people where to get

2793
01:48:44,168 --> 01:48:45,991
the book where to check out your website

2794
01:48:45,991 --> 01:48:47,338
and any of the other work you're doing

2795
01:48:47,338 --> 01:48:48,924
that people might wanna follow up on. I'm

2796
01:48:48,924 --> 01:48:50,509
sure they're very intrigued right now.

2797
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:53,636
The go to people are scarlet in imprint,

2798
01:48:54,275 --> 01:48:56,274
who I worked with on this project and

2799
01:48:56,274 --> 01:48:58,671
they've done a superb job in designing the

2800
01:48:58,671 --> 01:48:58,910
book.

2801
01:49:00,120 --> 01:49:01,812
And in in their general curator

2802
01:49:02,186 --> 01:49:04,810
of this whole process. It's been excellent. Mh.

2803
01:49:05,048 --> 01:49:06,796
Been a pleasure to work with them. So

2804
01:49:06,796 --> 01:49:08,306
scarlet imprint dot com.

2805
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:10,078
There's the go to place.

2806
01:49:10,717 --> 01:49:12,415
The deck of cards, perfect

2807
01:49:12,874 --> 01:49:15,350
reproduction for the first time in 500 years

2808
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:17,675
with the Image imagery coming from the B

2809
01:49:17,675 --> 01:49:20,458
gallery itself is just coming online. They'll start

2810
01:49:20,458 --> 01:49:22,447
shipping in 10 days or so.

2811
01:49:23,418 --> 01:49:25,831
Some of the work I've done on ritual

2812
01:49:25,889 --> 01:49:27,824
on various aspects of

2813
01:49:28,360 --> 01:49:31,230
entities is in the para anthropology Journal.

2814
01:49:32,045 --> 01:49:34,045
Peer review journal, and I put it on

2815
01:49:34,045 --> 01:49:36,524
my academia dot edu you page.

2816
01:49:37,085 --> 01:49:39,404
So I was like free essays there. Some

2817
01:49:39,404 --> 01:49:41,493
bits of the book Some of the essays

2818
01:49:41,493 --> 01:49:43,427
that were formative, very formative

2819
01:49:43,962 --> 01:49:46,192
in writing the book are also up there.

2820
01:49:46,828 --> 01:49:48,421
So you can read those for free.

2821
01:49:48,994 --> 01:49:50,693
And I think you just need a a

2822
01:49:50,912 --> 01:49:53,389
registration. As for my personal website, it's a

2823
01:49:53,389 --> 01:49:56,105
disaster. I'm I'm gonna have it rebuilt. I

2824
01:49:56,105 --> 01:49:58,189
hope it's you know how these things get

2825
01:49:58,189 --> 01:50:00,253
out of date, so I'm not gonna recommend

2826
01:50:00,253 --> 01:50:01,842
that for anyone at this point.

2827
01:50:04,065 --> 01:50:06,792
Cool. Cool. Well, you are right. Scarlet Imprint.

2828
01:50:06,952 --> 01:50:09,349
I mean, in an era of mass production,

2829
01:50:09,669 --> 01:50:10,968
they have preserved

2830
01:50:11,507 --> 01:50:13,917
an artisan ship that you just don't see

2831
01:50:13,917 --> 01:50:16,615
often anymore. It's a beautiful thing. It's great

2832
01:50:16,615 --> 01:50:19,473
that, you know, you've written such amazing words

2833
01:50:19,473 --> 01:50:21,378
and they were able to complement that with

2834
01:50:21,378 --> 01:50:22,116
a great

2835
01:50:22,902 --> 01:50:25,050
book. So it's just awesome man.

2836
01:50:26,322 --> 01:50:29,503
Presentation is beautiful listening. It is. So all

2837
01:50:29,503 --> 01:50:33,179
around, amazing stuff. You've definitely contributed to our

2838
01:50:33,179 --> 01:50:33,679
scholar

2839
01:50:34,055 --> 01:50:36,444
understanding of the occult beliefs of the elite

2840
01:50:36,444 --> 01:50:38,753
and salute for it. Take care out there,

2841
01:50:38,992 --> 01:50:41,391
man. Thank you very much, Greg. It's been

2842
01:50:41,391 --> 01:50:41,868
a pleasure.

2843
01:50:42,425 --> 01:50:45,046
You got it. Take care. You too.

2844
01:50:46,078 --> 01:50:49,789
Sweet sweet stranger things people Peter Mark Adams

2845
01:50:50,409 --> 01:50:51,609
and the game of saturn,

2846
01:50:52,329 --> 01:50:54,729
what a great subject. And whenever someone asks

2847
01:50:54,729 --> 01:50:56,735
me if it's possible that the elite might

2848
01:50:56,735 --> 01:50:58,563
have come from a rep italian blood line

2849
01:50:58,563 --> 01:51:00,391
of some kind or do I think the

2850
01:51:00,391 --> 01:51:02,378
elite make deals with dark forces?

2851
01:51:03,187 --> 01:51:04,614
Gonna say don't take my word for it.

2852
01:51:04,774 --> 01:51:07,390
Let's just see what the Italian Renaissance elite

2853
01:51:07,390 --> 01:51:08,897
had to say for themselves.

2854
01:51:09,690 --> 01:51:10,666
It's provocative

2855
01:51:11,052 --> 01:51:12,878
And granted, you can't see the art on

2856
01:51:12,878 --> 01:51:14,783
the cards in an audio show, but you

2857
01:51:14,783 --> 01:51:16,768
can always use the links in the show

2858
01:51:16,768 --> 01:51:18,926
notes or just Google the deck. It is

2859
01:51:18,926 --> 01:51:21,073
really 1 of my favorite types of episodes

2860
01:51:21,073 --> 01:51:23,935
to do where we kind of examine something

2861
01:51:23,935 --> 01:51:25,605
that can move the needle in terms of

2862
01:51:25,605 --> 01:51:27,832
making the case for some far out positions,

2863
01:51:28,404 --> 01:51:30,400
And really, what is more far out than

2864
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:32,795
a deal with the demi to bypass the

2865
01:51:32,795 --> 01:51:33,295
rein

2866
01:51:33,673 --> 01:51:35,930
cycle and rule over man as the management

2867
01:51:36,069 --> 01:51:36,967
class of this

2868
01:51:37,345 --> 01:51:37,506
manifestation?

2869
01:51:38,318 --> 01:51:40,625
Of course, I can't say exactly why the

2870
01:51:40,625 --> 01:51:42,773
deck was made, but given the context of

2871
01:51:42,773 --> 01:51:45,215
the times, it's clearly a very special piece

2872
01:51:45,333 --> 01:51:47,155
and I love that, Peter, really let me

2873
01:51:47,155 --> 01:51:49,295
run with the speculation. We pushed it today.

2874
01:51:49,849 --> 01:51:51,751
But, you know, that's what we do here.

2875
01:51:52,640 --> 01:51:56,319
Peter, though, what a knowledgeable guy, great writer.

2876
01:51:56,880 --> 01:51:58,800
I just loved it to find this sort

2877
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:00,739
of physical evidence for a continuity?

2878
01:52:01,373 --> 01:52:03,759
To elite power and a consistency of quote

2879
01:52:03,759 --> 01:52:04,950
beliefs among their ranks?

2880
01:52:05,587 --> 01:52:06,381
It's mind blowing.

2881
01:52:07,096 --> 01:52:09,402
I also think this 1 pairs really nicely

2882
01:52:09,402 --> 01:52:11,646
with Chris last week, 2 of my favorite

2883
01:52:11,646 --> 01:52:14,117
shows lately for sure. If you don't sign

2884
01:52:14,117 --> 01:52:16,031
up for plus now, I guess you just

2885
01:52:16,031 --> 01:52:17,944
maybe never will because these are the shows

2886
01:52:17,944 --> 01:52:20,109
that I'd be looking for. In the second

2887
01:52:20,109 --> 01:52:22,094
half of today, we got deeper into the

2888
01:52:22,094 --> 01:52:24,158
deck in several ways. We focused in on

2889
01:52:24,158 --> 01:52:26,224
the Trump cards and why they point to

2890
01:52:26,303 --> 01:52:27,177
Northern Africa,

2891
01:52:27,829 --> 01:52:29,987
We broke down the mysteries of the suit

2892
01:52:29,987 --> 01:52:33,203
cards, the decks codes and multiple levels of

2893
01:52:33,342 --> 01:52:35,281
encryption, the science of the Her.

2894
01:52:36,154 --> 01:52:36,975
Demonic fella

2895
01:52:37,354 --> 01:52:38,734
cannot forget demonic.

2896
01:52:39,594 --> 01:52:42,335
Also, the details of the cards that reference

2897
01:52:42,395 --> 01:52:45,528
human sacrifice what that's all about? How Troy

2898
01:52:45,528 --> 01:52:48,162
was once reference to as the realm of

2899
01:52:48,162 --> 01:52:49,120
the serpent born?

2900
01:52:49,838 --> 01:52:52,335
Also the court cards and the emphasis on

2901
01:52:52,473 --> 01:52:54,011
half rep italian origins

2902
01:52:54,404 --> 01:52:56,961
certain elite blood lines, how to tell if

2903
01:52:56,961 --> 01:52:58,639
you were pledged to a dark entity in

2904
01:52:58,639 --> 01:53:01,515
a previous life. The idea of the elite

2905
01:53:01,515 --> 01:53:02,015
pledging

2906
01:53:02,488 --> 01:53:05,131
large groups of people to demons in mass

2907
01:53:05,266 --> 01:53:05,585
rituals.

2908
01:53:06,457 --> 01:53:09,078
Dragons also just to ice the cake and

2909
01:53:09,078 --> 01:53:10,610
the importance of positive

2910
01:53:10,984 --> 01:53:12,428
polarity for good measure.

2911
01:53:13,063 --> 01:53:15,286
I ken loved it. Can't thank Peter and

2912
01:53:15,286 --> 01:53:17,350
scarlet in for enough, also Gordon for having

2913
01:53:17,350 --> 01:53:18,937
him on rune soup and filling me in

2914
01:53:18,937 --> 01:53:20,072
on just how fascinating.

2915
01:53:20,619 --> 01:53:21,496
This study was.

2916
01:53:22,213 --> 01:53:24,844
In other news, Thc is doing another live

2917
01:53:24,844 --> 01:53:27,236
show with tin Foil Hat. This time I'm

2918
01:53:27,236 --> 01:53:29,403
supposed to be doing stand up, so We'll

2919
01:53:29,403 --> 01:53:30,834
see what I can come up with in

2920
01:53:30,834 --> 01:53:33,061
a week's time with no prior experience and

2921
01:53:33,061 --> 01:53:33,936
crippling anxiety,

2922
01:53:34,493 --> 01:53:35,448
but it is what it is.

2923
01:53:36,179 --> 01:53:38,576
So remember, remember the eighth of November at

2924
01:53:38,576 --> 01:53:41,132
the La jolla Comedy store. And this time,

2925
01:53:41,292 --> 01:53:42,970
I don't have to drive 3 hours back

2926
01:53:42,970 --> 01:53:44,662
and forth to La, which is a beautiful

2927
01:53:44,662 --> 01:53:46,500
thing. We're gonna leave that to Sam Tripoli

2928
01:53:46,580 --> 01:53:48,657
Ryan Davis and Eddie Bravo, who will all

2929
01:53:48,657 --> 01:53:48,977
be there.

2930
01:53:49,856 --> 01:53:51,309
I got 1 more up out to the

2931
01:53:51,309 --> 01:53:53,065
higher side to get out to you before

2932
01:53:53,065 --> 01:53:54,822
the end of October, and it is more

2933
01:53:54,822 --> 01:53:55,859
of just a fun 1.

2934
01:53:56,578 --> 01:53:58,174
The original plan was to run through a

2935
01:53:58,174 --> 01:54:00,225
bunch of paranormal stories for the guy who's

2936
01:54:00,344 --> 01:54:02,341
an author in that world for decades,

2937
01:54:02,979 --> 01:54:04,496
but as soon as we got going and

2938
01:54:04,496 --> 01:54:07,152
he noted that he was 11 when Roswell

2939
01:54:07,211 --> 01:54:09,605
happened and also had an body experience,

2940
01:54:10,339 --> 01:54:12,494
I actually just thought it was really interesting

2941
01:54:12,494 --> 01:54:14,431
for me in a paranormal

2942
01:54:14,969 --> 01:54:16,966
archive sort of sense to just hear the

2943
01:54:16,966 --> 01:54:19,121
anecdotes and mu of a guy in his

2944
01:54:19,121 --> 01:54:22,081
eighties who's lived and watched the paranormal and

2945
01:54:22,081 --> 01:54:22,581
cons

2946
01:54:23,194 --> 01:54:23,989
wheelhouse for literally,

2947
01:54:24,546 --> 01:54:26,217
twice the length of my entire life.

2948
01:54:26,949 --> 01:54:28,467
I also have a hell of a Halloween

2949
01:54:28,467 --> 01:54:30,545
story to tell you on that episode myself,

2950
01:54:31,024 --> 01:54:33,023
but I'm getting out of here. I'm still

2951
01:54:33,023 --> 01:54:34,541
trying to convince the wife to be my

2952
01:54:34,541 --> 01:54:37,211
handmade from Halloween anyone who's seen the show

2953
01:54:37,587 --> 01:54:39,101
because I could just wear a suit, which

2954
01:54:39,101 --> 01:54:41,333
is nice and easy, but I don't think

2955
01:54:41,333 --> 01:54:43,565
she's a huge fan of the implication.

2956
01:54:44,693 --> 01:54:46,674
I guess I understand, But I gotta keep

2957
01:54:46,674 --> 01:54:48,417
making my case and learn how to write

2958
01:54:48,417 --> 01:54:51,192
jokes. So I'll see you soon. Your move

2959
01:54:51,192 --> 01:54:54,327
out attorney brotherhood, billionaire blood lines and d

2960
01:54:54,542 --> 01:54:55,177
deal makers.

2961
01:54:55,812 --> 01:54:56,925
Your fucking.

2962
01:55:01,388 --> 01:55:03,462
No 1 knows. But it's like.

2963
01:55:04,420 --> 01:55:05,537
To be the bad.

2964
01:55:08,345 --> 01:55:10,185
To be the sad man.

2965
01:55:12,984 --> 01:55:14,445
Behind blue eyes.

2966
01:55:16,518 --> 01:55:19,012
For no 1 knows what it's like

2967
01:55:19,788 --> 01:55:21,166
to be hated.

2968
01:55:23,697 --> 01:55:25,154
To be faded.

2969
01:55:27,142 --> 01:55:28,680
To telling only

2970
01:55:29,457 --> 01:55:29,957
lives,

2971
01:55:31,372 --> 01:55:32,830
but my dreams

2972
01:55:35,218 --> 01:55:35,718
art

2973
01:55:36,252 --> 01:55:37,309
is empty

2974
01:55:38,957 --> 01:55:40,490
has my conscience

2975
01:55:50,646 --> 01:55:51,146
only

2976
01:55:51,994 --> 01:55:52,494
lonely.

2977
01:55:54,135 --> 01:55:54,952
Since they

2978
01:55:55,483 --> 01:55:56,275
exposed me.

2979
01:55:58,193 --> 01:55:59,169
On thc.

2980
01:56:07,019 --> 01:56:09,252
No 1 knows. 1. It's like.

2981
01:56:10,209 --> 01:56:11,746
To feel these feelings.

2982
01:56:14,356 --> 01:56:15,872
Like I do.

2983
01:56:17,478 --> 01:56:18,985
Can I blame you?

2984
01:56:22,476 --> 01:56:24,618
No 1 bites back is hard.

2985
01:56:25,907 --> 01:56:27,046
Hunger anger.

2986
01:56:29,259 --> 01:56:31,493
None of my pain world.

2987
01:56:33,184 --> 01:56:34,641
Can show through.

2988
01:56:37,014 --> 01:56:38,551
But my dream

2989
01:56:41,018 --> 01:56:41,518
aren't

2990
01:56:41,972 --> 01:56:43,007
sm empty.

2991
01:56:44,757 --> 01:56:45,814
Has my,

2992
01:56:57,119 --> 01:56:57,619
wait

2993
01:57:42,925 --> 01:57:43,425
but

2994
01:57:48,524 --> 01:57:48,844
empty.

2995
01:57:50,619 --> 01:57:51,600
As my

2996
01:57:58,460 --> 01:57:59,154
I have

2997
01:58:02,296 --> 01:58:03,091
always wait.

2998
01:58:03,648 --> 01:58:04,148
Lonely.

2999
01:58:05,953 --> 01:58:08,140
Since I exposed me

3000
01:58:18,597 --> 01:58:21,087
No 1. No. Just what it's like

3001
01:58:21,939 --> 01:58:23,927
to be the bad, mirror.

3002
01:58:25,773 --> 01:58:27,466
To be the admin

3003
01:58:30,944 --> 01:58:31,444
behind