Jonathan (00:00) Wish I a cooler shirt though, sorry. You got you got the cool shirt. I got the Andrew Easton (00:03) I'm I'm Andrew Easton (00:04) just rocking the Friday you know casual Jonathan (00:06) Yeah. Andrew Easton (00:07) here, man. This is feeling comfortable, kinda fun, so can't complain. I well I know we have we are recording, but we can edit this out. Are you in s Santa Monica? man. I'd Jonathan (00:17) Yeah, I'm in I'm in Santa Monica. Yeah. Andrew Easton (00:20) trade I'd trade the shirt for where you're reporting from then 'cause Andrew Easton (00:24) Dang, that's I love I love visiting out there. That's a spot I've been to a number of times. whenever I love fishing in the southwest kind of broadly, but if I'm gonna get to the coast, I like that area where you're at. Jonathan (00:36) Well hit me up next time you're in town, man. I'll show you around. Andrew Easton (00:39) That'd be fun. That'd be really cool. So awesome. Well, here we go. Andrew Easton (00:47) All right, I'd like to welcome everybody back for another episode of the Good Life EDU podcast. And over the course of the past well few months here, we've been previewing the upcoming NE MTSS Summit event that's going to take place on October 8th and 9th here in our state. by having the opportunity not only to meet with the leadership and hear a little bit more about the conference in general, but also to feature some of the keynote speakers of which we have with us today Jonathan Mooney, who is Andrew Easton (01:15) an advocate for those who learn differently. He's the CEO founder of the Divergent Impact Fund. and we're really gonna have the opportunity to explore his story and message and encourage folks to check out that summit event where he'll be kicking off a day of learning for us. And so Jonathan, thank you so much for your time and looking forward to today's conversation. Jonathan (01:36) And I'm excited to be a part of it. Thank you for having me. Andrew Easton (01:40) Yeah, and you know, I try to do a little bit of research as we have our podcasts and and learn more about the folks that are coming in to to share. And ahead of today, I was really nice thing I can edit some of these pieces out. and so ahead of today, getting a chance to kind of see some of your content online and and learn a little bit more about your backstory, I think it's probably a great place for us to start, would be there to say that. Andrew Easton (02:06) your experience as a learner. What was it like as a kiddo? kind of going through the K twelve system, and maybe we'll kind of build from that why. Jonathan (02:16) Not great. Jonathan (02:20) So sorry. I mean why why beat around the bush, you know? Like Andrew Easton (02:20) That No w well yeah, I think that's good Andrew Easton (02:25) though, 'cause I think it's so fun to to connect with folks that Jonathan (02:27) Mm. Andrew Easton (02:27) wanna create the change they wish to see in the systems that they were a part of or didn't serve them, right? And so in this case, yeah. Jonathan (02:34) Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. you know, my my why and as you mentioned, I I I've been a an advocate for folks who learn differently for the past thirty years. And it all comes from my own experience of being that square peg that that didn't fit the round hole of school. I had a hard time in school f for most of my K twelve journey. Jonathan (03:03) I was the kid who couldn't sit still, so I spent a lot of the day chilling out with the custodian in the hallway. I I couldn't keep my mouth shut. and I grew up on a first name basis with Shirley, the receptionist in the principal's office. And I I had a hard time reading. I didn't learn to read until I was twelve. And I spent a lot of the school day Jonathan (03:32) hiding in the bathroom, to escape reading out loud with tears streaming down my face. I'm not alone in that experience. you know, there's one point five billion neurodivergent humans in the world. there's another like one point two folks with atypical bodies who experience disability. And Jonathan (03:58) Those folks often get the the short end of the stick in a system and a world that has been designed for the myth of the normal human being and and I'm trying to do my part to make it a little bit better. Andrew Easton (04:13) well I so appreciate that. And I would ask too, maybe just as we're on board and folks for today's conversation, when I was a kid and and maybe this is just showing my age, I I cannot recall hearing the term neurodivergent. and so for someone who's listening in today that maybe this is they're they're loosely aware of what you mean by that, but can you give us some specificity so that they really yeah can have some clarity there as we move forward. Jonathan (04:39) Yeah, n not not your age, my man. Don't stress about it. Andrew Easton (04:42) Yeah. Jonathan (04:44) like the the term neurodivergence is i is a a fairly new sort of conceptual reframe of a set of cognitive states of being that have historically been seen as intrinsic deficits or disorders. so dyslexia, which was my diagnosis, A D D my diagnosis, autism Jonathan (05:09) anxiety, depression, and a whole other hosts of cognitive differences are now being reframed and reconceptualized as naturally occurring variations in the human brain. And to reflect that shift from a deficit or or or inherent pathology model to a diversity model. Jonathan (05:39) I and and many, many, many others in in the field have been advocating and advancing the the concept of neurodivergence, which recognizes that these cognitive states of being have neurobiologically based challenges, like I have a hard time spelling. I'm not dumb, it's a brain difference. Hard time sitting still, not bad, a brain difference. But at the same time, they're a naturally occurring Jonathan (06:09) part of the continuum of of cognitive difference that makes our species stronger. So that's the neurodivergent framework. It it's pretty new on the scene, to be honest with you. It it really in the last four, five years at most, it's been more common to to use that term to refer to that continuum of cognitive differences. and it's I think real progress because it destigmatizes Jonathan (06:37) and recognizes the challenges but at the same time celebrates the strengths that these different brains bring to the table. Andrew Easton (06:45) Yeah, I could see how if you felt somewhat saddled with something that dependent upon how it was first conveyed or or portrayed in the educational setting like you're talking about, that that you might come at that from a deficit mindset where the as you're noting it there, recognizes it for its strengths and also some of the challenges posed with it. And so for someone who maybe is more familiar with that first. Andrew Easton (07:12) approach or mindset, I guess, illustrate for them that the the everything you just mentioned there also comes with its strengths also. Jonathan (07:21) Hundred percent. a and that's the the the the emerging science that that is is fairly mature now. I mean I got on I got on to this journey in in the the late nineties, early two thousands. And so I I I wrote my first book as an undergraduate in college, a a book called Writing Outside the Lines. that book was in part Jonathan (07:49) my story of not learning to read until I was 12 and and the journey to self-acceptance and and academic empowerment that I went on, and then my co-author's journey as well, that was same but different, if that makes sense to you, different experience but commonalities. And in the late 90s, we would sit around our dorm room at Brown University and and, you know, really talk about the folks that we knew growing up. Jonathan (08:18) In our special education experiences and say, man, there were some really phenomenal strengths that these young people had that were being missed. But then we had no empirical proof to point to. It became sort of often dismissed as wishful thinking. And now the the neuroscience is clear that there's a whole constellation of cognitive strengths that are because, not despite, neurodivergence. we know that. Jonathan (08:47) Folks with atypical attention span are often better problem solvers and more entrepreneurial than general population. We know the kid that often struggles with linguistic tasks, reading, writing, is the kid that can draw, talk, build. we know that whole constellation of neurodivergence comes with higher EQ ability to build relationships and connect and have deep empathy for other people's experience. Jonathan (09:17) And the list goes goes on and on. and I think it's important to to hold the hole on this that it's a it's an and both, in the sense that the neurodivergent framework and the sort of post-deficit model movement that that I've been privileged to be a part of is not in denial or or negating the challenges. Though those are real, you know, they're real. and they're neurobiologically based. Jonathan (09:46) The same studies that showed the strengths empirically validate the areas of weakness in the the neurobiology of these n neurodivergences. But it's it's at the same time true that these gifts and talents go hand in hand. And and that's the the hole that we have to hold together together. Andrew Easton (10:07) It it made me think back to something that and I was a teacher for quite sixteen years prior to entering into the world I'm in now. during that time I was exposed to probably about 10 years ago the Myth of Average TED Talk by Todd Rose, which I'm not sure if you're at all familiar with, but Jonathan (10:22) Yeah. Yeah. Sure. For a hundred percent. Andrew Easton (10:27) yeah, I I loved the that learning f as a framing by which that you know you can try to build for those that have not watched a TED Talk. Andrew Easton (10:36) they were trying to build a pilot seat for the average pilot and found that it fit no one, basically, because everyone has maybe strengths, shortcomings and so on that is unaccountable for if you're shooting for the middle. and when I was yeah, dipping into the repository resources online with learning more about your story, that really seemed to to align, I guess, with with some of your work, that there is really not a normal. Jonathan (11:05) Yeah, I I I I t t Todd's a good friend of mine and a a real visionary and luminary in the field. And you know that that that notion that that we have designed our systems real large, schools, built environment, our our our places of work for the middle of the bell curve, Jonathan (11:32) I think is just indisputably true. I I don't think anyone can can can can dispute that fact. And not only have we kind of designed our systems for that, but when it comes to moving away from designing for the average, but then enforcing the normal on people, which was really the subject of my my my last book, a book called Normal Sucks. Jonathan (12:00) w we took the same instinct that that Todd talked about in designing a physical object to then applying to people's worth. And so normal is not just a empirical statement about, you know, a middle of a bell curve or commonly occurring trait. It it's a value judgment, you know, like the normal's good and right and things that deviate from normal are are deficient. Jonathan (12:29) and wrong. And one of the things that that that I've learned in my 30 years of talking with with folks, a lot of young folks, frankly, is that that notion of the normal as as a value judgment causes a lot of harm to people's sense of self. and they folks with atypical brains and bodies often internalize this idea that their differences Jonathan (12:58) make them deficient as human beings because they're not normal. And I think that's critical in the work. Any educator, parent, frankly, any human that wants to empower and support the 1.5 billion, 1.2 billion with physical disabilities, we have to challenge that deeply held cultural idea that that that normal is A real and B something to aspire to, which it's not. Andrew Easton (13:27) that feels like a great segue almost kind of back to your personal story then having sort of framed as we just did there neurodivergence and thinking about this in terms of everything you just brought up there is that normal sucks. That how then I guess to give some some applicability to that really by hearing from your own life, did you go from Andrew Easton (13:52) a place where you said you didn't really even read until the age of twelve to the point where you're at Brown and then you're writing books and I mean there had to have been some experiences in there that changed the way in which what had w at one point in time, like a as you noted, led you to being emotional about not being able to read when you were in high school to the place where you saw the opportunity for success. Jonathan (14:21) Yeah, like like like any a journey of of change and transformation, it it's a iterative process. couple steps forward, couple steps back, one step sideways. But when I pull out of the whole arc of the journey, I think there there are really three critical Jonathan (14:48) inflection points from a a f philosophical sounds a little too abstract, but from a kind of core principle perspective that that that moved the gears of change for me. So so one was really having people in my life be relentless in the message that you're not the problem. Jonathan (15:17) You know, you're you're not the problem. The problem is in the interaction between your difference and the environment. And that's a really profound message to give a person who thinks they're the problem. When you grow up thinking like, well, I'm I'm deficient, I'm defective, what's wrong with me? were all questions that I asked my mom and and teachers who were in my corner all the time. And their response would be Jonathan (15:45) The problem isn't your your difference, but the way your difference is being treated in an environment built for the idea that we should all be the same. A la Todd Rose's idea. So that that's that's one key building block of change. The second was a message that if the if you're not the problem, but what's around you is the problem, we should spend our time trying to change the environment, not the person. And Jonathan (16:15) In my life, what that meant was becoming an advocate for my right to learn differently. the most common kind of manifestation of advocacy is obviously accommodations and and being an advocate for those accommodations. And that was a journey to come to that. I came to to being an advocate for those accommodations really only in the beginning of college before I transferred to Brown. I went to school. Jonathan (16:44) To play soccer. That's what got me through high school. And it's when I internalized and and activated the message I was being given by others that I should advocate for my right to learn differently. That's when my concrete education started to change. And then lastly, the last building block of of changes is that flipping of the deficit model, you know, away from the idea that that that Jonathan (17:11) You should focus on what's wrong with yourself and try to fix it. That's the classic special ed diagnosis model. You know, let's remediate the problem in the kid, to let's flip the script and and focus more on what's right with you, not what's wrong with you, and figure out how you build a strength-based identity and then how you try to build pathways around those strengths, gifts, and talents. Those three foundations w were what Jonathan (17:41) helped me go from the kid who thought he was stupid, crazy, lazy to somebody who who who thought they had value in the world and could contribute. Andrew Easton (17:52) And from from that lens, and like you said, through through a process, to where you now obviously can articulate it that clearly as far as those different reframings that that took place. can is there a story in there from one piece or or a couple where you felt like that message was imparted to you in a way that that Andrew Easton (18:19) woke you up to that, I guess. on some like in a in a but sometimes change happens so slowly sometimes that there isn't that too. So I don't I don't mean to force a a portion of your story that isn't that wasn't like that. Yeah. Jonathan (18:34) Yeah, it's look, it's an and both, man. Jonathan (18:37) it do it is it changes an iterative process, but then there are there are really critical moments where where the universe comes and brings you a message and and I certainly have have have that. I I was diagnosed with with dyslexia, dysgraphia, all of that kind of alphabet soup, as well as ADD. Jonathan (19:03) when I was like eight, nine and and started to receive a form of special education services. And running parallel to that, I had this third grade teacher named Mr. R. and this this man had the most relentless commitment to the idea that every student had something right with them. Jonathan (19:30) And and and he saw his job as an educator to be to to celebrate the the the gifts and talents of students and find them and name them and build them. So he would ask every kid kinda all the time, hey, what do you what are you good at? What do you like? What are you into? Trying to fish around for for those areas of of interest and and innate aptitude. And he would ask me that question and and and I had just, as I mentioned, been diagnosed and was receiving these Jonathan (19:59) remediation services, which are all deficit oriented. And I would say, hey, I'm not good at anything, man. Like, like nothing. which is a common response from kids who get immersed into this remediation model. But the thing about Mr. R is he he never gave up on me. And one day he came to me and he said, hey, look, I've been watching you and you know you're wrong about yourself. Jonathan (20:28) And I think a whole bunch of other people in your life are wrong about you too. He said, You are so good at telling stories. Now, sometimes they're inappropriate stories you tell, which was true, by the way. and he said, I don't care. You're so good at telling stories that you could be a writer. I was I was like nine, ten years old. Jonathan (20:57) I mean, I I I had just been diagnosed with dyslexia. Nobody had said anything like that to me in my life. And I looked at the guy and I said, Mr. R writer, are you out of your goddamn mind? I can't spell, man. Like I can't. And the guy didn't miss a beat. He looked right at me and he said, Hey Jonathan, in my class, screw spelling. Screw spelling, man. Yeah. Jonathan (21:23) You know, you should have seen me just jump out of my body because from for the first time in my life, somebody said, forget what you can't do and focus on what you can do. And that was a moment like it that that stayed with me for the rest of my life and and fundamentally inserted a different chapter to my narrative, to the story of myself. Jonathan (21:53) And was everything all hunky dory after that? No. Were there struggles? Of course. Was it still one step forward, couple step back, couple state sideways? It was. But that man inserted a a foundation that that changed my life. And that's an affirmation of the flipping of the deficit model for a kid, but it's also an affirmation of Jonathan (22:23) of the profound impact that educators have on young folks. And and often you don't get to hear it, you know, you don't get the the letter at the end of the year, or I certainly didn't say to Mr. R, hey man, you changed my life, you know, I went about my day, but you're there, you you never know w what you might say that fundamentally changes a young person's perception of themselves. Jonathan (22:53) In Mr. R's case, for better, a hundred percent. In in other cases, for worse. And I think it's really important to be mindful of that potential for influence that is profound and to believe in young folks and to engage with young people always from the perspective of they have something to contribute to the world. Let's find it and let's celebrate it. Andrew Easton (23:19) Wow, I so much resonates with me there. I folks listen to the show know that I'm the fourth Andrew Eastern of my family, third generation educator, and I oftentimes look to the influence of my grandfather and my father had on me as a bit of a legacy thing that I feel then tasked with paying forward in the hopes that whatever you know Andrew Easton (23:43) they were able to impart still is alive an impact in the world as a result. So, you know, carrying that as a responsibility. And wow, like what a way to honor Mr. R forever with the ripple effect through his impact on you and as such then on everyone that you've had the opportunity to touch. And and I'd follow that up too with a a quote then that sits with me to often as well. Andrew Easton (24:07) that speaks to that same idea is the that the idea of legacy is about planting trees under which whose shade you do not intend to sit and and maybe not even revisit. I'm adding that last piece to it, right? Like I think that happens to your point, Jonathan, a lot in education where it kind of can get disheartening as a as a teacher sometimes because you you're not always aware of those or you it takes a while for that s to sprout and grow and then live and maybe in a place that's not Andrew Easton (24:35) a place that you'll visit. But wow, those things are so important. And how awesome then too that you get the opportunity to speak at events like the NEM TSS Summit and help encourage educators to be the positive version of what you just shared and not negative necessarily, you know, like an and and so so with that framing too then I guess Andrew Easton (25:00) Sounds like you've had the opportunity to to think through some of that and the impact or the role that education leaders and teachers can play in in living out this message for the better. what are some practices maybe that if you are aware that you've seen that you would point to as being like, you know, as you shared with there with Mr. R, he was encouraging, focusing on your strengths. Andrew Easton (25:24) but but what would you kind of add to for somebody maybe is a practical takeaway that you're like, you know, I've seen this in action and and that's the kind of thing we're talking about here. Jonathan (25:35) Hundred percent. I just first wanna just put an exclamation point on that beautiful sentiment and quote that you shared around legacy and rippled impact that often you're you're you're never fully recognized for or aware of for any educator out there. Jonathan (26:01) doing the hard work of of working with children and and it's hard work and it's underpaid and underappreciated work. But I can tell you, you know, 30 years of of speaking. So my first book came out in 2000 of September of 2000. And I gave my first presentation at the end of my time at Brown in like 98, 99. and Jonathan (26:29) Ever I've spoken in all 50 states, most states four or five times and fifteen countries. And every time I've I've met and spoken with young folks who've had challenges and and have gone off to contribute and thrive in life, it is a teacher at the corner of it. Not a diagnosis, not a service necessarily, it's a teacher. Jonathan (26:58) i it's a teacher like Mr. R, like you, like folks listening. And so I just really want educators to hold on to to that. And especially as we demean the craft of teaching even more with the proliferation of AI, you know, these big oligarch tech folks are acting like the people on the front lines don't matter and we're gonna outsource education now to the machine. Jonathan (27:27) There is no education without relationships with other human beings. And there is no learning without a teacher in your corner who believes deeply in you. And that will never be replaced. And it's important for us to to continue to to celebrate that and and fight for it at the same time. So practically, j just a couple things. You know, one of the most important practices for young for the square peg that doesn't fit the round hole. Jonathan (27:55) Whether they're diagnosed or not, because folks don't fit the the round hole for many different reasons, it is is a a practice called benign indifference when it comes to the challenges that that student may bring to the table. Again, I'm not naive about the challenges of neurodivergence. I can't sit still, I burn things out, I lose things. There's a lot of behavioral challenges. And then subsequently, for young folks who Jonathan (28:23) Don't feel fulfilled in an educational environment, whether it's neurodivergent or not, often bring challenging behaviors to to the table. And one of the practices that that maintains that relationship is to engage with a challenging behavior benignly and indifferently. And what that means is sometimes there's a temptation or a Jonathan (28:53) a culturally learned habit to moralize behavior. You know, you you don't sit still, you're the bad kid, you know? And and then kids feel like the bad kid and internalize that. That's a sort of moralization of the behavior. Like behavior is either good or bad and and if you don't do it good, you're bad. Benign indifference is just like, hey, look, I get it. It's hard for you to sit still. We all gotta be in this room together. I'm gonna Jonathan (29:23) provide with a number of of strategies to manage this together. And I know it sometimes the line will be crossed and there'll have to be a consequence for that. We're still friends. I still like you. But and we'll move on. You know, it sounds like such a subtle thing, but but the the number of of of folks that I've met in my 30 years who were called bad and then what they eventually said to themselves is well Jonathan (29:52) If I'm the bad kid, I'm going to become the best bad kid you've ever seen. They internalize and then run with that identity. And it's starts with that language of trying to shift from a moralization of behavior to a benignly indifferent reaction to challenging behavior, in which it's not a bad kid, it's just a mismatch between kid and environment, and we'll work it out and we're still friends. That I think is a really scalable. Jonathan (30:21) cheap, it doesn't cost any money. That doesn't mean it's hard to do not easy to do, but it's actionable in a lot of different settings and it'll make a very big difference in relationship between student and and teacher and ultimately how a young person sees themselves. Andrew Easton (30:38) And I and maybe this is me speaking to this from a parent lens, but I love in there too though that there was still the the clear explanation of where that line was at and that there would be Jonathan (30:48) A hundred percent. Andrew Easton (30:49) consequences, and dare I say and love, I guess, on the other side of when it is crossed, right? And so it's not a free pass, it's not Jonathan (30:54) Yes, yes. A hundred percent. Nope. Andrew Easton (30:59) necessarily taking it exceptions per se, but just an acknowledgement maybe, that can bring clarity and Andrew Easton (31:07) and provide a little bit of grace along with expectations. And that's that's part of that what art of teaching that goes with the science. Jonathan (31:15) Hundred percent. And and I think you're you you said it you said it better than I did, which is which is clear expectations and clear clear consequences and consequences that come on the other side with love and respect and we're still friends. You know, like it it's it it that's the benign indifference part. We're not moralizing it. And that maintains the relationship and also helps a young person understand Jonathan (31:41) Where the lines are, because there's always going to be lines in any environment you're in. We have to collaborate together. We're a social species and we have to work together. And teachers that manage that the best say that up front to the whole class, not just to the those kids or that kid, but they say it to the whole class. Hey, we're we're gonna work together. Some of your needs are gonna bit get met, not all of them. We'll have lines around how we have to work together. There's consequences and there's love on the other side. That's a good framework. Andrew Easton (32:13) That's fantastic. I yeah, could not could not agree more. And a great message too, I think, is a number of schools across the country are starting their year right now. You know, thinking about framing those initial conversations with your classes as they're starting back to school or over early first quarters you're setting culture. is just so important. So I I say all the time half hour goes kind of quick on our podcast here, Jonathan and I could kind of lean in and and talk more about this, but I would encourage folks Andrew Easton (32:42) Go to the NEMTSS Summit. All right. The leadership there really advocated for us to do these podcasts as a space to to highlight what's gonna be front and center for folks when they are a part of that experience. And if you can't make it, you got a chance to hear Jonathan here. And I would point you to other resources that he has available because I've learned a lot, even in prepping for today's conversation. but with that, Jonathan, it when when you speak typically, and so you'll have a keynote, but then Andrew Easton (33:10) What are some of the sort of sessions around that that you tend to provide? Or I know there's sometimes a the application piece. I already heard you start to get to that in what we just explored in this most recent thread, but maybe one more piece here as we kind of work towards a close. Jonathan (33:27) Yeah. You know, keynotes are about about about helping and challenging folks to think differently about the the square peg that doesn't fit the round hole, to challenge the the deficit model and replace it with a difference diversity model, and to inspire folks that that their work matters and and they play a critical and central role to to to to supporting young folks thriving in life. Jonathan (33:57) Breakout sessions are are not about thinking differently, they're about doing differently. And so the workshops that I'll I'll I'll provide why I'm have the privilege of being a part of this amazing gathering will really focus on that change the environment piece. You know, in my journey, a huge shift was moving away from fixing the person to changing the environment. And the good news is not only do we have empirical science about about the the Jonathan (34:26) The validating that this is different, not deficient, we also know more than ever what are the practices that move the dial for the struggling at-risk learner. And I'll focus my breakouts on on really concrete practices and policies. Often they go hand in hand. You know, sometimes we put all the onus of change on a teacher, but they're they're deeply constrained by policy in the system. And Jonathan (34:56) At the same time, sometimes we are in a system that has flawed policies, but there's still things you can do differently in that flawed system. So I focus my breakout on do difference at the policy level and then at the practice level and really concrete takeaways for educators and administrators and and folks who care about kids to do right by a kid like me. Andrew Easton (35:23) It so inspiring to to hear you share about those topics. and love the framing too of moving to those breakouts that you'll be sharing at the summit event so that folks can know what to expect in both the keynote and those opportunities. So thank you for all your advocacy and what you do each and every day, right? Like like first and foremost, thank you for being a that positive Andrew Easton (35:46) force for good and for change. and then for being willing to s use this space and and the times that we have to connect with you here to help us do that in Nebraska. We're just really grateful, Jonathan, for all of your work. And so for folks that are looking to register, check out the show notes because the link is there. And then Jonathan, where would you point folks if they're looking to learn more about your work? For example, connect around your books, et cetera. Jonathan (36:10) Yeah, you can come come come find me and say hi to me at at Jonathan Mooney dot com. and then you can come come find me on on the social stuff. It's just the Jonathan Mooney on the on the social platforms. Andrew Easton (36:24) And we'll add those to the show notes as well. So thanks so much for your time and we'll look forward to seeing you here in October. Jonathan (36:29) Yeah, it was really an honor to be a part of the conversation and inspired by by your commitment to doing right by young folks. Thanks for having me.